5 Ways Republicans May Be About To Permanently Destroy The GOP Brand

5 years after a financial crisis they couldn’t prevent, they may be about to start another one.
Politics • Views: 23,520

This post originally appeared at NationalMemo.com.

All signs continue to point to a House GOP crackup that will either lead to a government shutdown or — even worse — a default on America’s debt.

Republican leaders had hoped that the situation in Syria would give them cover, allowing them to somehow keep the government functioning while ignoring many of the big legislative issues the House still has to tackle this year. That doesn’t look as if it will happen.

Instead, the clouds are clearing and what’s left is a Republican caucus that’s divided between justifiably declaring victory over the sequester and the incredibly shrinking deficit — it’s down over one-third in just a year — and Tea Partiers who really want to force a crisis over delaying or defunding Obamacare, a position that’s popular among far-right congressmembers, along with Ted Cruz’s fan club and family — and pretty much no one else.

But the budget battles aren’t the only looming crises for the GOP. Immigration reform and the implementation of Obamacare present historic choices for both parties that will have implications for presidential elections as far as the eye can see.

And all of this is happening as Speaker John Boehner has become the “Speaker In Name Only,” whose plots and schemes are continually rejected by his own members.

Even if we weren’t on the verge of a war, the rest of 2013 will be a perilous time for America. Republicans have to decide if they are a party so obsessed with what they oppose that they’ll damage America and wound their ability to accomplish their agenda in the future.

Here are five ways the GOP could be about to hurt themselves in ways they won’t be able to easily fix.

Photo: House GOP Leader via flickr.com

Shutting Down The Government

Funding the government is the most basic task Congress is assigned. But when there’s a Democratic president and Republican House, it becomes nearly impossible — especially in non-election years.

Even though the GOP has a safe majority in the House, they haven’t been able to pass most of their appropriations and haven’t been able to come up with a plan to fund the government. Things are so dire in the lower chamber of Congress that Republicans are even considering working more than the nine days they’d planned for September.

Republicans know that shutting off the government and all that goes with it, including not paying soldiers who are actually at war — while still paying congresspeople — is a terrible move. So they’re trying to convince themselves to focus on the debt limit fight, which has even greater consequences.

The problem?

The “Defund Obamacare” holy warriors do not want to fund the government past September 30 because of what happens on October 1. That’s the day the Obamacare health care exchanges open and more than 30 million Americans find out that they’re eligible for tax credits to help purchase private health care or get completely subsidized government health care.

Shutting down the government hurt the GOP brand in the 1990s and forced George W. Bush to move the GOP agenda away from smaller government. It would hurt the GOP today, but it would actually be one of the least harmful things they could do this year.

Photo: U.S. Army via flickr.com

Defaulting On Our Debt

Many Republicans think a fight over raising the debt limit is where they can win a delay of Obamacare, or at least that’s what they’re telling Tea Partiers to get them to keep the government open.

The debt limit is a confusing concept because it’s stupid. Congress has already approved all of the spending the U.S. government can do. When the government is in deficit spending, Congress then needs to also approve raising the debt limit. President Bill Clinton has said that he believes the 14th Amendment gives the president power to raise the limit without Congress. But no president has ever tested that, probably because no Congress had ever seriously threatened default until Republicans took over the House in 2011.

Not raising the debt limit actually polls quite well, as American have been trained to think of debt as a form of theft from them, not the ballast to the economy it actually is. There’s no way to deny that defaulting on our debt would unleash one disaster after another.

President Obama has said he will not negotiate on the debt limit. Republicans don’t believe him.

Speaker Boehner has the votes to raise the limit any time he wants. But to do that he’d likely have to risk his job. The last debt limit crisis took thousands of points off the Dow and slowed a painfully slow recovery without costing President Obama re-election.

An actual default would remind America that the party of Hoover and Bush can’t seem to stop creating financial crises.

Photo: Jon Perr via Daily Kos

Reaffirming Themselves As the Party Of The Rich

Republicans have won the deficit argument. Democrats have agreed to cut the deficit even though millions are out of work. And the deficit is falling faster than it has been since the South was segregated and people pretended that homosexuality was a myth.

Democrats would be happy to cut the deficit even more than Republicans are proposing — if the GOP would just agree to get rid of tax breaks for the rich and/or corporations.

The vast majority of Republicans have signed an oath in blood never even to consider asking the rich to pay more for anything ever, even though they’ve taken in approximately 95 percent of the benefits of the recovery.

So instead they’re demanding cuts to food stamps, Head Start, public housing, research and health care while the Mitt Romneys of the world still pay a lower tax rate than many nurses.

The GOP’s basic populist argument — the non-white poors are stealing your right to a Mercedes Benz — has been erased over the past few presidential elections by literally running millionaires for president who symbolize the massive redistribution of wealth to the rich and vast expanse of income inequality that conservative politics makes possible.

If they shut down the government because they won’t ask the richest to sacrifice or because they don’t want 30 million working Americans to be able to get health insurance, making an argument that they’re bleeding this country dry for the rich will be very easy.

Photo: Adam Glanzman via flickr.com

Denying Health Care To Millions

Let’s say Ted Cruz wins and Obamacare goes away.

Health insurance premiums will rise, probably faster than they were before the Affordable Care Act became law. Pre-existing conditions will still exist for adults. Millions of children with pre-existing conditions who have been protected by the new law could be thrown off their insurance. Insurers can go back to canceling policies when people get sick. Americans will still be paying for the uninsured but just in the dumbest possible way — emergency rooms.

If this happened, Republicans would be in the same position Democrats are in now: forced to answer for every problem with the health care system.

Even though Republicans won’t be able to stop Obamacare from being fully implemented, they’re likely going to pay a price anyway.

Republican governors are embracing Obamacare’s Medicaid expansion for a simple reason: They fear not doing so could cost them their jobs.

There’s some evidence that accepting it has already helped Republicans governing in swing states. Eventually every Republican governor who has rejected subsidized health care that the state is going to have to pay for anyway is going to defend this decision.

Red states that reject Medicaid expansion will likely be raising their own states’ premiums, providing proof that expansion works, and increasing the deficit reduction of the law, making it less likely it will ever go away.

Could being the party that based its identity on opposing Obamacare turn red states purple? We will find out.

Photo: Gage Skidmore via flickr.com

Punting On Immigration Reform

Okay, if you’ve read this far and still don’t buy the GOP is about to do some serious self-harm, keep reading.

The Republican National Committee gave Republicans exactly one policy recommendation in the wake of Mitt Romney’s loss: pass immigration reform.

The reason is simple: Latinos are America’s fastest growing group of new voters—and Romney did worse with them than John McCain, who did worse than George W. Bush.

Immigration reform isn’t the only issue these voters care about. They also love Obamacare.

Approving immigration reform won’t turn the 27 percent of the Latino vote into 51 percent for Chris Christie, Paul Ryan, Rand Paul, Jeb Bush or Marco Rubio in 2016. But it will keep it from going down toward the 10 percent of the African-American vote Republicans tend to get.

In a way, we’ve never been closer to reform. A bill has passed the Senate that could pass the House today, if Boehner would let Republicans vote on it. But he can’t because he’d likely lose his job.

Republicans console themselves by pointing out that in the two countries where conservatives have seen a resurgence — Australia and Norway — the right embraces an anti-immigration platform. Those countries aren’t America. Every day at least 1,643 Latino voters are turning 18. And the day Texas — which has the second largest Latino population in the nation — turns blue, Republicans will cease to be a national party.

In the next few weeks, Republicans will decide how quickly they want that to happen.

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87 comments
1 Mattand  Mon, Sep 16, 2013 10:03:51am

It’s a good, well reasoned article. But the premise that the GOP is heading into oblivion is wrong.

Why? Because regardless of how bat shit insane the party gets, the average American voter will still vote for them.

Look at what happened in 2010. Literally, the American people decided that since Obama couldn’t fix 8 years of GOP financial mismanagement in less than two, it would make sense to put the GOP back in charge.

Think about that for a minute. It’s like hiring the arsonist who burned down your business to be your fire safety inspector.

It’s anecdotal, but I know people who still vote GOP even after you point out how off-the-rails they’ve gotten with things like racism and religion. There’s a few here at LGF that think like that.

It’s basically a corollary of Bill Clintons’ famous “It’s the economy, stupid.” You could run a GOP candidate wearing a Klan hood and demanding compulsory Christian studies in public schools. If the economy isn’t great, the oh-so-wise “independents” would give this candidate a fighting chance.

The GOP isn’t going anywhere, and the lack of critical thought the average American voter possesses has a lot to do with that.

2 Justanotherhuman  Mon, Sep 16, 2013 10:14:09am

I’m glad I have never quavered in my trust of Pres Obama.

Now, I want him to pull the same tactic on the Republicans he did on Syria.

Go get ‘em, Mr. President!

3 erik_t  Mon, Sep 16, 2013 10:14:29am

re: #1 Mattand

Why? Because regardless of how bat shit insane the party gets, the average American voter will still vote for them.

This is becoming an even bigger empty platitude than “the GOP is doomed”, and that’s saying a lot.

The “average American voter” is changing. The data bear this out. White people aren’t going to start having eleven kids each tomorrow. A snap-turn in demographic trends literally decades in the making would be unprecedented.

God help me if I’m drawing a MBF here, but responding to a long, thoughtful, well-reasoned position article with “yeah but ‘Murricans are dumb” puts me in a foul mood.

4 Jeff In Ohio  Mon, Sep 16, 2013 10:19:50am

President Putin would know how to lead us from this crisis. House members, after declaring Vlad has the biggest penis in DC and can satisfy many women, would line up to say “Da!” to his proposals.

Putin / Fetus Inajar ‘16
“The time has come to add an autocrat to your plutocracy!”

5 Stanley Sea  Mon, Sep 16, 2013 10:20:43am

Fetusinajar has been missed buddy.

6 blueraven  Mon, Sep 16, 2013 10:22:10am

re: #1 Mattand

It’s a good, well reasoned article. But the premise that the GOP is heading into oblivion is wrong.

Why? Because regardless of how bat shit insane the party gets, the average American voter will still vote for them.

Look at what happened in 2010. Literally, the American people decided that since Obama couldn’t fix 8 years of GOP financial mismanagement in less than two, it would make sense to put the GOP back in charge.

Think about that for a minute. It’s like hiring the arsonist who burned down your business to be your fire safety inspector.

It’s anecdotal, but I know people who still vote GOP even after you point out how off-the-rails they’ve gotten with things like racism and religion. There’s a few here at LGF that think like that.

It’s basically a corollary of Bill Clintons’ famous “It’s the economy, stupid.” You could run a GOP candidate wearing a Klan hood and demanding compulsory Christian studies in public schools. If the economy isn’t great, the oh-so-wise “independents” would give this candidate a fighting chance.

The GOP isn’t going anywhere, and the lack of critical thought the average American voter possesses has a lot to do with that.

Obviously they will keep a die-hard base, but it is shrinking with no effort by the GOP to expand it.

7 Mattand  Mon, Sep 16, 2013 10:22:49am

re: #3 erik_t

This is becoming an even bigger empty platitude than “the GOP is doomed”, and that’s saying a lot.

The “average American voter” is changing. The data bear this out. White people aren’t going to start having eleven kids each tomorrow. A snap-turn in demographic trends literally decades in the making would be unprecedented.

God help me if I’m drawing a MBF here, but responding to a long, thoughtful, well-reasoned position article with “yeah but ‘Murricans are dumb” puts me in a foul mood.

Sorry, but that’s how I feel. You are right that America is changing. I unfortunately can only go by what I experience, anecdotal as it is.

In my own personal sphere, I interact with people who insist on voting GOP even though the party has reached critical mass on the insanity front. You point these things out to them and they shrug their shoulders and go “Yeah, but whaddya gonna do?”

Besides, I’ve been reading about the imminent implosion of the GOP for 5 years now. It ain’t gonna happen. And if they nominate someone like Christie for 2016, it’s going to be all “Oh, look, they’re moderates now!”

Not holding my breath on this one.

8 Interesting Times  Mon, Sep 16, 2013 10:24:03am

re: #3 erik_t

God help me if I’m drawing a MBF here, but responding to a long, thoughtful, well-reasoned position article with “yeah but ‘Murricans are dumb” puts me in a foul mood.

Can you blame him when we have jibbering, moronic, and terrifying poll results like this?

9 erik_t  Mon, Sep 16, 2013 10:25:46am

re: #7 Mattand

Sorry, but that’s how I feel. You are right that America is changing. I unfortunately can only go by what I experience, anecdotal as it is.

No, you could also choose to go with actual data and research that has been coming out of any number of research organizations. Or, heck, maybe a careful balancing act between the two. Use statistically relevant data to inform you on what you see around you; use your personal experiences to try to figure out why things are changing in the way they are.

But instead you’re choosing to rely on the little bubble around you that you can personally see, rather than what the science says.

That makes me really legitimately sad. So many of the problems you see in the GOP’s policies and actions is caused by exactly the same mindset.

10 Mattand  Mon, Sep 16, 2013 10:26:40am

re: #8 Interesting Times

Can you blame him when we have jibbering, moronic, and terrifying poll results like this?

*headdesk*

11 ericblair  Mon, Sep 16, 2013 10:26:56am

re: #6 blueraven

Obviously they will keep a die-hard base, but it is shrinking with no effort by the GOP to expand it.

Plus the things they’re doing to survive: double down on the tribal bullshit, kick out the impure, whip up the nutcases, and gerrymander to maximize seats. Each one of these works for a while but has spectacular failure modes.

12 Jayleia  Mon, Sep 16, 2013 10:28:08am

The GOP is in a long term decline, they’ll bounce up and down…but they will go no lower than 27% Tyrone is right.

13 Interesting Times  Mon, Sep 16, 2013 10:28:43am

re: #10 Mattand

*headdesk*

It really makes we wish stupidity could be painful only for those who insist on inflicting it upon others.

14 Dr. Matt  Mon, Sep 16, 2013 10:29:51am

re: #8 Interesting Times

Can you blame him when we have jibbering, moronic, and terrifying poll results like this?

Chuck Todd is probably fap fap fapping over that poll.

15 Mattand  Mon, Sep 16, 2013 10:30:20am

re: #9 erik_t

No, you could also choose to go with actual data and research that has been coming out of any number of research organizations. Or, heck, maybe a careful balancing act between the two. Use statistically relevant data to inform you on what you see around you; use your personal experiences to try to figure out why things are changing in the way they are.

But instead you’re choosing to rely on the little bubble around you that you can personally see, rather than what the science says.

That makes me really legitimately sad. So many of the problems you see in the GOP’s policies and actions is caused by exactly the same mindset.

I’m sorry, but a Republican majority in the House that keeps voting to repeal the ACA practically every fucking day, that by all rights should have been kicked to the fucking curb last November, does not make me feel warm and fuzzy about the American voting public.

16 lawhawk  Mon, Sep 16, 2013 10:30:51am

Invoke the Gephardt rule and the debt ceiling disaster disappears. Congress appropriates the budget. They agreed that they’re going to spend X. The deficit rises by whatever amount is necessary to equal that spending.


That’s how it could be done (again). Instead, the GOP is seeking another bite of the appropriations apple. They already fought for spending at the levels we’re now seeing. That was their agreed upon budget. Now, they don’t want to pay the bill.

Sequestration, combined with the appropriations deals cut between Congress and the Administration, has already reduced the annual deficit (the long term national debt continues rising). Now, the GOP wants to double down by demanding more offsetting cuts, including shutting down Obamacare before the main provisions go into effect October 1 (the open enrollment period begins for the 2014 year). The GOP even claims to have a CBO report indicating that doing this will save $35 billion. That would ignore the fact that the taxes/fees taken in as a result of the Obamacare would still be coming in this year (and next, if they implement the 1-year delay) before the government needs to begin paying out. That was one of the reasons for the delayed enactment of the various provisions - to get certain tax collections to pay for other parts of the program. It’s the GOP being disingenuous at best.

The GOP has shown no willingness to compromise on the Obamacare, even though the central part of the program - the individual mandate - was something touted by the GOP, Heritage Foundation, and conservatives for years, right up until the moment Obama made it part of his health care reform plan. It was at that moment, that they decided that their own idea - the individual mandate - was somehow unconstitutional and socialist.

It was not - as the Courts have shown.

But they’re still fighting this battle, and we have until October 1 to resolve the debt battle, the appropriations mess, and Congress has scheduled all of a few days to do all this.

My guess? They’ll once again punt things til the end of the year, and we get to do this all over again.

Lurch from crisis to crisis, because the GOP wants an absolutist position - theirs - or nothing at all. They’re willing to blow it up if they don’t get their way, and it leaves the Administration in a position of potentially caving to some of the more extreme demands to keep the economy afloat. That’s exactly what the TP is hoping for - make demands so extreme that they force the Administration to cave, even though they have little support, even within the GOP itself.

17 erik_t  Mon, Sep 16, 2013 10:31:24am

There was such a great chance to have a thoughtful and productive conversation, but apparently we don’t want to do that today.

See y’all later; I’m out on this one.

18 Dr. Matt  Mon, Sep 16, 2013 10:32:19am

Just heard an update: 9 confirmed dead.

19 Skip Intro  Mon, Sep 16, 2013 10:33:07am

For a party that’s in decline, they sure do have a lot of power in this country. Abortion, voter suppression, anti-civil rights, tax cuts for the super rich; the GOP is on a roll with all of them.

20 Mattand  Mon, Sep 16, 2013 10:33:37am

re: #17 erik_t

There was such a great chance to have a thoughtful and productive conversation, but apparently we don’t want to do that today.

See y’all later; I’m out on this one.

Please read Lawhawk’s post above yours. That’s where the conversation starts, IMO. We’ve got a party that’s willing to literally bankrupt our country unless they get what they want, and a good chunk of America still votes for them.

21 Kragar  Mon, Sep 16, 2013 10:34:13am

re: #18 Dr. Matt

Just heard an update: 9 confirmed dead.

They might have 3 shooters.

22 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce  Mon, Sep 16, 2013 10:35:38am

The idea of Texas turning blue within the next 50 years is laughable. Gohmert won with over 70% of the vote. The next governor after Goodhair leaves is going to be a guy named Jerry Mander. I guarantee it.

23 piratedan  Mon, Sep 16, 2013 10:36:18am

re: #17 erik_t

There was such a great chance to have a thoughtful and productive conversation, but apparently we don’t want to do that today.

See y’all later; I’m out on this one.

I wouldn’t despair, it simply looks like a case of the Mondays, armed gunman, the usual GOP idiocy/lunacy/intransigence, the President being presidential and the part that gets lost in the wash is that how most folks here are on the same side and want the change to happen and are still distressed that we happen to have our government being held hostage by a fair number of know-nothing, theorcratic racist asshats who happen to have the loudest bullies and ignoramouses in the room backing them and their enablers see fit to shout out to the rest of us their POV and ignore everyone else.

It’s quite the depressing stew Erik, but have faith.

24 darthstar  Mon, Sep 16, 2013 10:36:25am
25 Justanotherhuman  Mon, Sep 16, 2013 10:37:19am

re: #3 erik_t

This is becoming an even bigger empty platitude than “the GOP is doomed”, and that’s saying a lot.

The “average American voter” is changing. The data bear this out. White people aren’t going to start having eleven kids each tomorrow. A snap-turn in demographic trends literally decades in the making would be unprecedented.

God help me if I’m drawing a MBF here, but responding to a long, thoughtful, well-reasoned position article with “yeah but ‘Murricans are dumb” puts me in a foul mood.

I don’t know; there are plenty of people around me who are that way.

Dumb as dirt, politically, and proud of it. Not to say the entire country is like that, obviously, but this county consistently votes heavily R, is full of racists, religion and guns. And will remain that way, if they have money or not. Most here can be divided into 2 categories: those who’ve lived here all their lives who used to be “Dems” but turned R back in the day, usually lower on the economic totem pole, most living on the west side of the county, but scattered throughout, and those who come here as full-fledged Rs from somewhere else, are newly well-off, and influence local politics, usually on the east side of the county with lake access. The county is only 5% Black, and I suspect non-whites are seriously discouraged from moving here by those who control local real estate. It’s become a bedroom community for Charlotte, lots of McMansions, at least on this side of the county, with hardly any kind of housing for lower income people except trailers which are ubiquitous here. Used to be heavily farmland, but a lot has been sold off to housing developers.

26 A Mom Anon  Mon, Sep 16, 2013 10:37:42am

re: #8 Interesting Times

Wasn’t there lower Democratic voter turnout in the 2010 mid terms too? If that is the case, that dems either got pissed off or complacent and stayed home, then it would make some sense that all is not totally lost. Yet.

I’m extremely disillusioned with my fellow Americans these days. I live in the South, trust me, it is freaking sad/scary/pain behind the eye inducing. People have even resorted to plastering their vehicles with handwritten signs around here, I just saw one on the way home a bit ago. There are A LOT of people who hate this President, and by extension liberals, ALL of them, way more than they love America. Some buncha patriots.

But we have to still try to GOTV as much as possible. The more people who vote, the more sane people get into office. I know of no other way to swing the pendulum back a little. Short of some other miracle.

27 lawhawk  Mon, Sep 16, 2013 10:37:50am

re: #24 darthstar

Targeting specific people? Sheesh. That has the hallmarks of a former/disgruntled employee, but with all the reports of multiple gunmen involved, who knows. Way too much speculation (mine included).

And way too much carnage as the death toll keeps rising.

28 makeitstop  Mon, Sep 16, 2013 10:37:52am

The dead shooter had ID on him, but apparently it wasn’t his ID. Some news outfits have reported the wrong name…

Just another day in the media and its rush to be first at any cost.

29 Kragar  Mon, Sep 16, 2013 10:38:52am
30 Skip Intro  Mon, Sep 16, 2013 10:39:15am

re: #17 erik_t

There was such a great chance to have a thoughtful and productive conversation, but apparently we don’t want to do that today.

See y’all later; I’m out on this one.

Ok, so on how many of these points is the GOP losing big?

Shutting Down The Government
Defaulting On Our Debt
Reaffirming Themselves As the Party Of The Rich
Denying Health Care To Millions
Punting On Immigration Reform

Certainly on most of these they should be getting clobbered, but I see no evidence at all that that’s the case. Probably nearly half the country agrees with or doesn’t really care about the first four, and probably more than half agree with them on the fifth.

31 makeitstop  Mon, Sep 16, 2013 10:39:51am

re: #27 lawhawk

Targeting specific people? Sheesh. That has the hallmarks of a former/disgruntled employee, but with all the reports of multiple gunmen involved, who knows. Way too much speculation (mine included).

And way too much carnage as the death toll keeps rising.

One report said that the shooter was an employee who got a ‘job reassignment’ a few months ago. I only heard that mentioned once though, so maybe it goes into the ‘potentially wrong info’ pile.

32 lawhawk  Mon, Sep 16, 2013 10:40:34am

re: #22 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce

It’s laughable more because gerrymandering has made those kinds of districts safe for their current representatives. Finding competitive races is tough - on both sides of the aisle.

It would be nice if there was a state nonpartisan panel that divided districts for Congress, but I seem to recall only a few states do something like that, and political considerations take precedence as the redistricting is ultimately done through the legislative process.

33 Dr. Matt  Mon, Sep 16, 2013 10:40:42am

re: #29 Kragar

34 lawhawk  Mon, Sep 16, 2013 10:41:21am

re: #29 Kragar

It’s Alex Jones being Alex Jones. Figures.

35 EPR-radar  Mon, Sep 16, 2013 10:43:40am

re: #30 Skip Intro

Ok, so on how many of these points is the GOP losing big?

Shutting Down The Government
Defaulting On Our Debt
Reaffirming Themselves As the Party Of The Rich
Denying Health Care To Millions
Punting On Immigration Reform

Certainly on most of these they should be getting clobbered, but I see no evidence at all that that’s the case. Probably nearly half the country agrees with or doesn’t really care about the first four, and probably more than half agree with them on the fifth.

For my part, I’ll wait to dance on the grave of this GOP when they field a presidential candidate that gets less than 40% of the vote nationwide.

This would be a outcome this party richly deserves, but I don’t see it happening any time soon.

36 lawhawk  Mon, Sep 16, 2013 10:46:24am

re: #35 EPR-radar

The GOP will draw a different conclusion - that their candidate was insufficiently conservative enough. That a candidate with the right kind of conservative credentials will win. It’s what they say about Romney/Ryan. It’s what they said about McCain/Palin. And it’s what they say about whoever the GOP puts up in 2016.

37 Kragar  Mon, Sep 16, 2013 10:47:34am

So I take off last week, I leave specific instructions on what needs to be done while I’m gone and I’m back in today.

“That stuff was hard, we left it for you to do.”
“These jobs are on a schedule. They had to be started last week.”
“Oh, you better catch up then.”

Fuck you, seriously. Just fuck right off.

38 EPR-radar  Mon, Sep 16, 2013 10:49:06am

re: #36 lawhawk

The GOP will draw a different conclusion - that their candidate was insufficiently conservative enough. That a candidate with the right kind of conservative credentials will win. It’s what they say about Romney/Ryan. It’s what they said about McCain/Palin. And it’s what they say about whoever the GOP puts up in 2016.

Of course they will. Which is why it will take 2-3 massive losses in a row to make an impression. That’s the only way reality will sink in.

The problem is, I don’t think it is mathematically possible for the GOP to lose as big as needed to make an impression any time soon.

39 Kragar  Mon, Sep 16, 2013 10:49:21am

And they wonder why so many people are looking for new jobs around here.

Fucking tired of this shit.

40 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Sep 16, 2013 10:51:28am

Holy shit, this Lisa Phillips really is the motherlode of Derp.
Tweeting about Teh Chemtrails now.
No really.
She has a lot of crazy followers too.

41 Lyssandri  Mon, Sep 16, 2013 10:53:23am

Some of the reports I’ve been hearing have commented that part of the reason there’s so much confusion on how many shooters there are is because with this being a military facility, there are a lot of people authorized to carry guns. I would think that would mean that it’s NOT a gun-free zone. I wouldn’t expect Alex Jones to check on something like that, however.

42 Skip Intro  Mon, Sep 16, 2013 10:53:27am

re: #30 Skip Intro

Ok, so on how many of these points is the GOP losing big?

Shutting Down The Government
Defaulting On Our Debt
Reaffirming Themselves As the Party Of The Rich
Denying Health Care To Millions
Punting On Immigration Reform

Certainly on most of these they should be getting clobbered, but I see no evidence at all that that’s the case. Probably nearly half the country agrees with or doesn’t really care about the first four, and probably more than half agree with them on the fifth.

Case in point:

Health Care Polls Find Obamacare Unpopular On Eve Of Rollout

huffingtonpost.com

43 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 16, 2013 10:53:53am
44 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Sep 16, 2013 10:54:25am
45 Skip Intro  Mon, Sep 16, 2013 10:54:38am

re: #41 Lyssandri

He doesn’t have to check, just like Glenn Beck doesn’t have to check. Facts don’t matter. Only the presentation does.

46 A Mom Anon  Mon, Sep 16, 2013 10:55:08am

re: #37 Kragar

Ahh I see you work for a subsidiary of Assholes, Inc. So does my husband.

He took two days off because his parents came in for a visit the weekend after Labor Day. Today he got word that he “might” get written up because he’s been”unavailable” by phone. The guy who has worked nearly 300 hours of overtime for July and August he won’t be paid for because he’s on salary. He gets there before anyone else and leaves after they all go home. But because he had the nerve to not answer the phone because family was in town, days off they GAVE him because they’ve worked him all those extra hours and they are “giving him a warning”. Oh just fuck these assclowns.

WTF? Seriously?

47 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 16, 2013 10:57:10am
48 A Mom Anon  Mon, Sep 16, 2013 10:57:23am

BBL, now that we’re home from the trade school tour, it’s off to the vet with Emo Dog Princess.

49 b_sharp  Mon, Sep 16, 2013 10:57:46am

re: #7 Mattand

Sorry, but that’s how I feel. You are right that America is changing. I unfortunately can only go by what I experience, anecdotal as it is.

In my own personal sphere, I interact with people who insist on voting GOP even though the party has reached critical mass on the insanity front. You point these things out to them and they shrug their shoulders and go “Yeah, but whaddya gonna do?”

Besides, I’ve been reading about the imminent implosion of the GOP for 5 years now. It ain’t gonna happen. And if they nominate someone like Christie for 2016, it’s going to be all “Oh, look, they’re moderates now!”

Not holding my breath on this one.

They are masters of the sideshow. What is and what they can convince people to believe aren’t necessarily the same.

50 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Sep 16, 2013 10:58:40am

re: #46 A Mom Anon

Ahh I see you work for a subsidiary of Assholes, Inc. So does my husband.

He took two days off because his parents came in for a visit the weekend after Labor Day. Today he got word that he “might” get written up because he’s been”unavailable” by phone. The guy who has worked nearly 300 hours of overtime for July and August he won’t be paid for because he’s on salary. He gets there before anyone else and leaves after they all go home. But because he had the nerve to not answer the phone because family was in town, days off they GAVE him because they’ve worked him all those extra hours and they are “giving him a warning”. Oh just fuck these assclowns.

WTF? Seriously?

In 1999 I got fired from a job because I didn’t answer my pager AT MY SON’S WEDDING.

Top that.

51 Kragar  Mon, Sep 16, 2013 10:59:18am

re: #47 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Gun control regulations are very stringent on base. Its almost like they know how dangerous they can be.

52 Dr Lizardo  Mon, Sep 16, 2013 10:59:19am

re: #40 Vicious Babushka

Holy shit, this Lisa Phillips really is the motherlode of Derp.
Tweeting about Teh Chemtrails now.
No really.
She has a lot of crazy followers too.

She’s probably a bigtime Rense fangirl.

53 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Mon, Sep 16, 2013 10:59:56am

re: #47 Charles Johnson

Guns are pretty strictly controlled at military bases, and by the military in general, but there are obviously a bunch of MPs and guards and stuff around with lots of guns and training.

54 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 16, 2013 11:00:50am

I’d just like to say, Chuck Todd really is an asshole.

55 lawhawk  Mon, Sep 16, 2013 11:00:55am

re: #51 Kragar

Yes, same as other bases, like Fort Hood, but there are armed security at checkpoints. And it looks like confusion over the number of gunman may be due in part to the fact that there are so many responding law enforcement and military agencies operating to secure the scene.

56 Dr. Matt  Mon, Sep 16, 2013 11:01:03am

re: #51 Kragar

Gun control regulations are very stringent on base. Its almost like they know how dangerous they can be.

The same reason why NRA headquarters and the NRA Annual Meeting are gun-free zones.

57 Kragar  Mon, Sep 16, 2013 11:02:03am

re: #55 lawhawk

Yes, same as other bases, like Fort Hood, but there are armed security at checkpoints. And it looks like confusion over the number of gunman may be due in part to the fact that there are so many responding law enforcement and military agencies operating to secure the scene.

Obviously, things would have gone much better if everyone in the area had a gun.
///

58 Dr. Matt  Mon, Sep 16, 2013 11:02:07am

re: #54 Charles Johnson

I’d just like to say, Chuck Todd really is an asshole.

There’s not a day goes by when I say the exact same thing. He really should be on Fox.

59 lawhawk  Mon, Sep 16, 2013 11:02:19am

re: #54 Charles Johnson

60 Dr. Matt  Mon, Sep 16, 2013 11:03:44am

re: #54 Charles Johnson

61 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 16, 2013 11:05:14am
62 missliberties  Mon, Sep 16, 2013 11:07:48am

Okay. I finally had to register as a user here.

To say this article is a great summation of the accumlated derp points (see there I have been lurking and reading. I said derp.) that has become the gop. The GOP needs to medicate their right flank otherwise known as, the insane caucus.

Also must add huge props to Charles Johnson. Finally a website that is a safe haven for those of us who consider ourselves radical moderates!

63 Kragar  Mon, Sep 16, 2013 11:08:01am

Press conference says 12 dead now

64 euphgeek  Mon, Sep 16, 2013 11:08:34am

Republicans thinking they can stop Obamacare from being implemented is sort of like thinking you can break someone’s fall off a tall building by high-fiving them just before they hit the ground.

65 ProTARDISLiberal  Mon, Sep 16, 2013 11:09:04am

re: #63 Kragar

Heard them say the deceased shooter was 50+ years old.

Going postal?

66 Dr. Matt  Mon, Sep 16, 2013 11:09:06am

re: #62 missliberties

Welcome! Hatchlings are suppose to bake brownies.

67 wrenchwench  Mon, Sep 16, 2013 11:09:38am

re: #62 missliberties

Welcome, hatchling.

68 Kragar  Mon, Sep 16, 2013 11:10:17am

re: #65 ProTARDISLiberal

Heard them say the deceased shooter was 50+ years old.

Going postal?

Could be.

69 Dr Lizardo  Mon, Sep 16, 2013 11:10:49am

re: #62 missliberties

Okay. I finally had to register as a user here.

To say this article is a great summation of the accumlated derp points (see there I have been lurking and reading. I said derp.) that has become the gop. The GOP needs to medicate their right flank otherwise known as, the insane caucus.

Also must add huge props to Charles Johnson. Finally a website that is a safe haven for those of us who consider ourselves radical moderates!

Welcome, hatchling.

70 Justanotherhuman  Mon, Sep 16, 2013 11:11:15am

MSNBC reporting shooter used ID of an employee, that employee being arrested at his home. Still don’t know if they’re looking for a second shooter.

Now saying 8 dead, 16 wounded.

71 Kragar  Mon, Sep 16, 2013 11:11:17am

2 other people of interest.

72 Dr Lizardo  Mon, Sep 16, 2013 11:11:18am

re: #65 ProTARDISLiberal

Heard them say the deceased shooter was 50+ years old.

Going postal?

Possible, and certainly not the first time it’s ever happened.

73 Charles Johnson  Mon, Sep 16, 2013 11:12:04am

Latest word from police chief: 12 confirmed dead.

74 jaunte  Mon, Sep 16, 2013 11:12:37am

re: #62 missliberties

Welcome to the radical middle.

75 ProTARDISLiberal  Mon, Sep 16, 2013 11:13:38am

re: #71 Kragar

I’m going to wait till evening before thinking about number of shooters. I have heard 1, 2 and 3 from the various news channels.

76 blueraven  Mon, Sep 16, 2013 11:13:41am

Still looking for two other potential suspects.

77 Kragar  Mon, Sep 16, 2013 11:16:12am

re: #76 blueraven

Still looking for two other potential suspects.

Not necessarily attackers. They might have been bystanders who had their own guns, in violation of base regulations.

78 b_sharp  Mon, Sep 16, 2013 11:17:05am

re: #74 jaunte

Welcome to the radical middle.

The radical middle?

I thought we were the radial middle.

79 Gus  Mon, Sep 16, 2013 11:17:53am
80 Decatur Deb  Mon, Sep 16, 2013 11:20:07am

re: #78 b_sharp

The radical middle?

I thought we were the radial middle.

Radical Muddle.

81 jaunte  Mon, Sep 16, 2013 11:20:16am

re: #78 b_sharp

Just back from a noon walk, I am the irradiated middle.

82 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Mon, Sep 16, 2013 11:20:30am

re: #62 missliberties

I’m actually a whackaloon* when it comes to what I’d actually like as a political system, I’m just an incrementalist so I come off all moderate and shit. I have this weird idea that if we want to elect more progressive people we need to increase the number of progressive voters.

* Garunteed minimum income, 90% estate taxes beyond a million, a rewrite of the Constitution to take into account the massive changes in technology, and a free pipe for every beaver (no double meaning).

83 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Sep 16, 2013 11:21:22am

re: #78 b_sharp

The radical middle?

I thought we were the radial middle.

Pretty much - we’re spun around a lot by the nuts on the fringe.

84 missliberties  Mon, Sep 16, 2013 11:24:25am

re: #82 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Beavers with pipes? But you have such beautiful children.

85 missliberties  Mon, Sep 16, 2013 11:25:27am

re: #81 jaunte

Whatever it takes!

86 missliberties  Mon, Sep 16, 2013 11:30:45am

re: #66 Dr. Matt

I will have to work on that. ;)

87 szilard  Tue, Sep 17, 2013 9:11:33am

You mean people got smart overnight? Wishful thinking. There is no way to do anything dumb enough to harm the GOP.


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