Reforming FISA and the NSA: Close the NSA’s Reagan-Era Collection Loophole

Sans fear-mongering
Opinion • Views: 17,086

Marc Ambinder has a good post looking at some concrete ways in which the NSA and FISA courts can be reformed for more transparency and better privacy protection: Close the NSA’s Reagan-Era Collection Loophole.

Senators Ron Wyden, D-Ore., and Mark Udall, D-Colo., object to NSA’s newly acquired permission to analyze anything that is legally collected under the FISA authorities, including inadvertently collected U.S. persons data. Both senators have proposed an amendment to subject all U.S. persons’ data to an equal standard of legal review, including all of the incidental or accidentally acquired information. This would end the practice of running U.S. persons emails and phone numbers (already on an approved list of selectors — a selector is a piece of identifying information — against any American without an order.

To be clear, NSA hasn’t been randomly running your email or my phone number against the over-collected U.S. persons data; you or I would have already have had to find our way onto a list that is subject is to supervisory level approval. Still, the predicate half of the data is not sufficiently protected, and it ought to be. Again, this is a relatively new practice, so Congress could decide to forbid it entirely or it could pass the Wyden-Udall amendment. The “back-door loophole” would be closed.

The biggest, warranted objection to NSA collection relates to telephone records that companies give to NSA — that is, all of them, and what NSA is able to do with those records. The concern is about subjecting a defined subset of phone records to “contact chaining,” which means automatically sweeping within the call records of Americans without any connection to anything wrongdoing, and without a court order. The intelligence community wants to be able to do this, and says it is extremely valuable. But it represents a direct, if not particularly gruesome, violation of Americans’ expectation of what the government should and should not see. That this analysis is done by computers, without any set of eyes, is only slightly mitigating. There are dozens of ways to square this circle, including the imposition of a special master, a guardian of the information, to hold the data along with automatic oversight protocols. Or perhaps the companies can do the call-chaining themselves, subject to some sort of court-supervised arrangement. Or, the practice could be written out of the law and NSA could be given much more selective access to phone records, albeit with a much expedited process to match the speed of its intelligence requirements. Several bills, including one introduced by Rep. Justin Amash, R-Mich., would require the government to narrow the scope of its requests for data, even down to the level of a specific investigation.

As always, you should read the whole thing.

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142 comments
1 HappyWarrior  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 12:29:58pm

What we had a NSA under Reagan, I thought Obama invented the NSA because George Soros and Saul Alinsky told him to!// Okay, my smartassery aside, I like this. The NSA does need to have oversight to prevent abuses. Wyden and Udall are going at this the right way.

2 Kragar  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 12:31:52pm

As long as the GOP has a say in reforms, I don’t expect any reasonable progress to be made.

3 EPR-radar  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 12:33:22pm

I still like the idea of adding the question “Are you now, or have you ever been, a libertarian” to questioning for clearances.

4 dog philosopher  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 12:36:52pm

pre-snowden, wingnuts believed that only “terrorists” were being surveilled. if you asked them how you can tell if somebody is a terrorist, the answer was of course mumble mumble um muslims of course

5 Political Atheist  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 12:41:10pm

That might not be the big loophole.

This might be the biggie.

Section 215 of the Patriot Act authorizes the collection of certain business records — in this case, phone records — when there are reasonable grounds to believe that the records are relevant to an authorized investigation into international terrorism. The key legal term is “relevance.”

Under this relevance standard, the administration has collected the details of every call made by every American, even though the overwhelming majority of these calls have nothing to do with terrorism. Since first learning of the program this spring, I have been a vocal critic of such dragnet collection as a gross invasion of privacy and a violation of Section 215.

The administration’s memo begins by acknowledging that its interpretation of the statute is at odds with the plain meaning of “relevance.” It argues there is a “particularized legal meaning” of relevance, but it ultimately concedes that it fails to meet this standard as well.

The legal definition grew out of case law related to grand jury subpoenas and civil discovery. In these areas, courts have adopted a somewhat broader concept of relevance, finding that documents can be relevant not only when they directly bear on the subject matter at hand but also when they could reasonably lead to other information that directly bears on that subject matter. Think of it as second-degree relevance.

The memo correctly points out that Congress was familiar with this legal standard when it adopted the Patriot Act and therefore intentionally invoked this legal interpretation when passing the act. That’s true as far as it goes, but the administration’s bulk-collection program goes far beyond this broader definition of relevance. The phone records of innocent Americans do not relate to terrorism, and they are not reasonably likely to lead to information that relates to terrorism. Put simply, the phone calls we make to our friends, families and business associates are private and have nothing to do with terrorism or the government’s efforts to stop it.

sensenbrenner.house.gov

6 Kragar  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 12:41:25pm
7 Kragar  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 12:45:34pm

re: #6 Kragar

According to the comments, a government shutdown would be the greatest thing ever, and if it happens, its all Obama’s fault for not working with the GOP. Apparently the sequestration was also all Obama’s idea.

8 dog philosopher  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 12:45:41pm

re: #6 Kragar

OFFS

Breitbart: Obama Setting Narrative to Blame GOP for Government Shutdown

you see the truth is of course obama was wearing provocative clothing that would give any normal person an irresistable urge to shut down the government

9 EPR-radar  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 12:45:48pm

re: #6 Kragar

OFFS

Breitbart: Obama Setting Narrative to Blame GOP for Government Shutdown

Anyone suffering from excessive brain cells can read the comments there for speedy relief.

10 darthstar  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 12:46:47pm
11 Kragar  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 12:48:08pm

re: #10 darthstar

[Embedded content]

Must be hitting them because of all that gay marriage, abortion and weed.

12 Dr Lizardo  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 12:54:47pm

re: #11 Kragar

Must be hitting them because of all that gay marriage, abortion and weed.

And Buddhism, Taoism and Confucianism.

13 kirkspencer  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 12:56:47pm

re: #6 Kragar

OFFS

Breitbart: Obama Setting Narrative to Blame GOP for Government Shutdown

well he is. He’s telling the truth, that evil man. ////

14 darthstar  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 12:58:11pm
15 AntonSirius  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 1:06:47pm

Until Ambinder accepts St. Glenn as his lord and the personal savior of his most holy freedoms, I see no reason to read his heresies.

16 dog philosopher  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 1:07:18pm

did i mishear that or did martin bashir call sen cruz “a legend in his own lunchtime”?

17 Kragar  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 1:15:51pm

re: #16 dog philosopher

did i mishear that or did martin bashir call sen cruz “a legend in his own lunchtime”?

The bloom is off the rose.

18 klys  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 1:19:42pm

re: #10 darthstar

Sailor Moon strikes for justice!

////

19 Kragar  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 1:22:11pm

Assault Weapon Used In 13-Person Chicago Shooting: ‘Miracle’ There Were No Fatalities

“It’s a miracle in this instance that there have been no fatalities based upon the lethality of the weapon used at the scene,” he said, according to the Associated Press.

The Chicago Tribune reports that the toddler’s uncle had died just weeks ago from a gunshot wound over Labor Day; two months earlier, 46 people were shot in the city’s bloodiest weekends of the year.

As conservatives like to point out, Chicago already has stricter gun laws relative to the rest of the country, which includes a ban on assault rifles.

But the city really provides a stronger case for why federal law is needed to close gun violence loopholes. Because Illinois and neighboring states have looser regulations that feed the violence, straw purchasers can still supply firearms and sell guns, without background checks. Seized guns in Chicago typically come from one of two sources: Outside the city, or other states.

20 Bulworth  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 1:24:51pm

re: #7 Kragar

And when we default over defunding/ACA repeal that will be PBO’s fault, too. //

21 Kragar  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 1:31:17pm


Bryan has a sad

22 Kragar  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 1:34:42pm


Crap, I just buried the DERP needle.

23 GeneJockey  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 1:36:08pm

re: #6 Kragar

OFFS

Breitbart: Obama Setting Narrative to Blame GOP for Government Shutdown

“Look what you made me do!”

No doubt if there is a government shutdown, the GOP will tell the ER Doctor that the country must have ‘walked into a door’, or ‘fell down some steps’.
//

24 Charles Johnson  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 1:39:12pm
25 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 1:40:02pm

Larry Pratt (Gun Owners of America) is making an ass out of himself on Martin Bashir’s program.

He accused Martin of never having shown any sympathy for the Newtown victims.

Gawd, these people are truly vile.

26 lawhawk  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 1:43:25pm


- this is all part of the Sandy rebuilding effort at Brooklyn’s famous Coney Island boardwalk area - to replenish beaches and building dunes to protect those inland.

27 Bulworth  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 1:43:43pm

re: #21 Kragar

But Bryan will keep waging it from his Tweet machine.

28 Kragar  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 1:44:52pm

re: #27 Bulworth

But Bryan will keep waging it from his Tweet machine.

“I’ll show those Papists and bigamists what Christianity looks like!”

29 jaunte  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 1:45:46pm

Freddoso:

“The idea is to prevent a vote until the Democrats finally realize we mean business and they’re not getting their way, no matter what. This means we don’t pass a spending bill. And this is where we see that the arguments that “no one is trying to shut down the government,” and “we want to fund the government except for Obamacare,” have been inaccurate — perhaps even disingenuous. The whole point of this strategy, as I noted this summer, is to shut the government down for months. Eventually, Democrats are supposed to get so demoralized by this that they will voluntarily defund Obamacare and leave D.C. with their tails between their legs. Who knows? Maybe they’ll even dissolve the Democratic Party permanently and all liberals will agree to become conservatives.

Before you get too excited, though, one minor problem with this strategy is that Obamacare will be fully funded throughout this “government shutdown.”

30 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 1:46:37pm

Why is MSNBC running a chyron saying that in 11 days the US will “run out of money”?

FFS already.

31 darthstar  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 1:47:22pm
32 Bulworth  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 1:50:11pm

re: #31 darthstar

Is the baseball player?

33 Bulworth  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 1:51:27pm

re: #30 Justanotherhuman

Because they’re idiots.

34 Lidane  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 1:54:48pm

re: #30 Justanotherhuman

Why is MSNBC running a chyron saying that in 11 days the US will “run out of money”?

FFS already.

Because fact checking isn’t their job.

////

35 Kragar  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 1:56:41pm

Harvey: Ban Gay Pride Parades And Adoption

On her radio commentary yesterday, Linda Harvey said she couldn’t comprehend why anyone would be opposed to Russia’s new law criminalizing speech it considers “homosexual propaganda.”

The Mission America president, who has endorsed and promoted the law, called on the US to view the law as a model, such as its ban on gay adoption and pride events: “A ban on homosexuals adopting children was also part of this law as well as a ban on gay pride parades, something we should consider in cities here, and a ban on any public promotion of homosexuality.”

She also praised Russia’s efforts to prevent gay people from “influencing children.”

Harvey just didn’t understand what all the fuss was all about, dismissing gay people for “playing the victim.”

Related: Russian Anti-Gay Video Claims ‘Gays Adopt Kids to Rape Them’

36 Bulworth  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 1:58:00pm

re: #35 Kragar

Freedom. Less Government. Liberty. Getting the government off our backs. Don’t Tread On Me./

37 b.d.  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 1:58:26pm

re: #34 Lidane

Because fact checking isn’t their job.

////

I only wish that MSNBC was concerned about conveying facts to its viewers as much as The Weather Channel is.

38 Decatur Deb  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 1:58:33pm

re: #26 lawhawk

[Embedded content]


- this is all part of the Sandy rebuilding effort at Brooklyn’s famous Coney Island boardwalk area - to replenish beaches and building dunes to protect those inland.

Ten percent less sand next fiscal year.

39 Kragar  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 2:06:24pm
40 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 2:07:29pm

re: #39 Kragar

CLEAR YOUR DVRS!

AMC Sets ‘Breaking Bad’ Marathon Ahead Of Finale

Yea, but with the SNAP cut no one will be able to afford Heisenburgers!
/ ;P

41 ProTARDISLiberal  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 2:07:31pm

re: #37 b.d.

This is why I don’t watch TV news anymore.

42 Eclectic Cyborg  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 2:11:13pm

re: #37 b.d.

Even the weather channel is guilty of overhyping Hurricanes and what not, although they do love facts.

43 Kragar  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 2:11:22pm

re: #40 Feline Fearless Leader

Yea, but with the SNAP cut no one will be able to afford Heisenburgers!
/ ;P

I’ve got coupons for Los Pollos Hermanos.

44 A Mom Anon  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 2:19:51pm

Bringing this up from downstairs, been on the phone, didn’t see the new post….

Well damn. I honestly don’t know what to make of this:

I just got a call from my son’s vocational rehab caseworker. With all the budget madness I really didn’t think this was going to happen but they have cleared the funds for him to enter a program for young adults with autism. He leaves to go to school there next month. Wow. We really had just accepted that all the morons playing politics with the budget would screw this program forever. Now, what services will be available to him is another story, but I take this as a victory.

I don’t know how it happened, but YAY!! I just saw my kid really smile for the first time in a LONG time.

45 Eclectic Cyborg  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 2:23:17pm

re: #44 A Mom Anon

That’s spectacular. So great to see you getting some good news, I know you’ve been through a lot lately.

46 Lidane  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 2:23:44pm

Haha, this is awesome. I saw a posting for an account manager position at a digital agency in a university alumni group on FB. I sent a message to the poster. Sent him my resume. We started talking about that position as well as a marketing position that is basically my MBA in a nutshell. It turns out that the hiring mangers for BOTH positions are also alumni. He’s going to talk to both of them and put in a word for me.

With luck, this will be a short term of unemployment. *crosses fingers*

47 Eclectic Cyborg  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 2:24:23pm

OT: Is it my imagination or is the Walter White look becoming a fad?

I’m noticing a lot of Bald guys with goatees walking around (including myself) but when I went bald I hadn’t even heard of Breaking Bad.

48 makeitstop  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 2:24:34pm

re: #46 Lidane

Haha, this is awesome. I saw a posting for an account manager position at a digital agency in a university alumni group on FB and I sent a messge to the poster. Sent him my resume. We started talking about that position as well as a marketing position that is basically my MBA in a nutshell. It turns out that the hiring mangers for BOTH positions are also alumni. He’s going to talk to both of them and put in a word for me.

With luck, this will be a short term of unemployment. *crosses fingers*

Small world! Good luck!!

49 Kragar  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 2:24:46pm

re: #44 A Mom Anon

Bringing this up from downstairs, been on the phone, didn’t see the new post….

Well damn. I honestly don’t know what to make of this:

I just got a call from my son’s vocational rehab caseworker. With all the budget madness I really didn’t think this was going to happen but they have cleared the funds for him to enter a program for young adults with autism. He leaves to go to school there next month. Wow. We really had just accepted that all the morons playing politics with the budget would screw this program forever. Now, what services will be available to him is another story, but I take this as a victory.

I don’t know how it happened, but YAY!! I just saw my kid really smile for the first time in a LONG time.

Congratulations. I had to fight for close to 3 years to get my daughter the IEP she needed at her school. Its ridiculous what you need to do to get help for needy kids. Good luck with the program.

50 Eclectic Cyborg  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 2:24:48pm

re: #46 Lidane

Proving once again its all about connections.

51 Lidane  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 2:28:57pm

re: #50 Eclectic Cyborg

Proving once again its all about connections.

I seriously hope so. The thought of having to go on unemployment and stare at LinkedIn and other job sites all day gives me hives.

52 Eclectic Cyborg  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 2:30:14pm

re: #51 Lidane

You and me and both. I am thankful every day for my job.

53 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 2:31:14pm

OT and a bit geeky:

Poster on BoardGameGeek answering questions as if he was H P Lovecraft. (A riff on another list where someone was sort of running an advice column.)

boardgamegeek.com

Sort of amusing simply for the language choices and some of the questions. And the author is quite aware of and acknowledges H P Lovecraft’s racism and other insensitivities that ran through his published works and correspondence.

54 Kragar  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 2:31:30pm

re: #51 Lidane

I seriously hope so. The thought of having to go on unemployment and stare at LinkedIn and other job sites all day gives me hives.

I’m still employed but looking for greener pastures. I still get stressed just looking around.

55 BongCrodny  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 2:36:28pm

re: #43 Kragar

I’ve got coupons for Los Pollos Hermanos.

I hear their chicken is addictive.

56 Political Atheist  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 2:36:42pm

What am I missing? Why does the “relevance” issue with the NSA boundaries have so little traction or attention? It’s not some big paranoid claim. It is from an author of the original bill. Downside_he’s a Republican, Upside-It’s the author of the bill. He is a good resource on intent when they wrote the Patriot Act.

If we sunset the act, the metadata collection of domestic phone traffic stops.

Is that the worry?

57 EPR-radar  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 2:37:30pm

OT. Some excerpts of Obama’s speech today:

I just want to break this down one more time. I go into a Ford dealership. I drive off with a new F-150. Unless I paid cash, I’ve still got to pay for it each month. I can’t just say, you know, I’m not going to make my car payment this month. That’s what Congress is threatening to do—just saying, I’m not going to pay the bills.
There are consequences to that. The bill collector starts calling you, right? Your credit goes south, and you’ve got all kinds of problems. Same is true for a country.

So if we don’t raise the debt ceiling, we’re deadbeats. “If we fail to increase the debt limit, we would send our economy into a tailspin”—that’s a quote, by the way, what I just said. You know who said it? The Republican Speaker of the House John Boehner. The Republican Speaker has said if we don’t pay our bills, we’ll have an economic tailspin. So this is not just my opinion. This is everybody’s opinion.

Unfortunately, there is a faction on the far right of the Republican Party right now—it’s not everybody, but it’s a pretty big faction—who convinced their leadership to threaten a government shutdown and potentially threaten to not raise the debt ceiling if they can’t shut off the Affordable Care Act, also known as Obamacare.

Defunding Affordable Health Care would rob 25 million Americans of the chance to get health care coverage. It would cut basic health care services for tens of millions of seniors on Medicare already. That’s what House Republicans are fighting for. And now they’ve gone beyond just holding Congress hostage, they’re holding the whole country hostage.

More of this.

58 dog philosopher  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 2:37:42pm

re: #47 Eclectic Cyborg

OT: Is it my imagination or is the Walter White look becoming a fad?

I’m noticing a lot of Bald guys with goatees walking around (including myself) but when I went bald I hadn’t even heard of Breaking Bad.

i saw a lot of people who looked like that already before walter got that way

men don’t seem to be able to deal with losing their hair anymore without shaving their head to hide it - then they feel naked so they grow teh goatees

59 Kragar  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 2:37:47pm

re: #55 BongCrodny

I hear their chicken is addictive.

Its good, but the quality has really started to go down hill since they changed owners.

60 dog philosopher  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 2:40:39pm

re: #55 BongCrodny

I hear their chicken is addictive.

meh

61 Lidane  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 2:41:10pm

re: #58 dog philosopher

men don’t seem to be able to deal with losing their hair anymore without shaving their head to hide it - then they feel naked so they grow teh goatees

THIS. I’ve known guys over the last decade who decided that shaving their heads and growing a goatee was preferable to combovers or trying to hang on to their hairlines.

It’s actually rare for me to see a guy who is balding anymore. Once the hairline is gone or the bald spot really shows up in the back, a shaved head is pretty much inevitable.

62 Mattand  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 2:41:24pm

OT: I just got downvoted on a Ars Technica comment board for making fun of a woman throwing a fit on how a black iPhone 5s would make her look like a lesbian.

When the site isn’t in Greenwald/Snowden fantasyland, their articles are usually top notch. Really beginning to wonder about the readership, though.

63 Kragar  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 2:43:22pm

re: #61 Lidane

THIS. I’ve known guys over the last decade who decided that shaving their heads and growing a goatee was preferable to combovers or trying to hang on to their hairlines.

It’s actually rare for me to see a guy who is balding anymore. Once the hairline is gone or the bald spot really shows up in the back, a shaved head is pretty much inevitable.

Based on genetics, I’m probably going to end up with a healthy mane into my dotage. That being said, I’d rather pull off a Red Forman than a Walter White.

64 Eclectic Cyborg  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 2:44:05pm

re: #61 Lidane

I don’t go skin bald, I just keep it very short. I first my goatee in 2004 when I still had plenty of hair and have kept it ever since. I shaved it off once for my wife who then said she preferred me with it. The only change I made is that its just chin hair now, no mustache. I personally find I look better with the shorter hair than the longer hair/bald spot BUT I am comfortable with who I am, regardless of hairline.

65 Dr Lizardo  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 2:44:32pm

re: #61 Lidane

THIS. I’ve known guys over the last decade who decided that shaving their heads and growing a goatee was preferable to combovers or trying to hang on to their hairlines.

It’s actually rare for me to see a guy who is balding anymore. Once the hairline is gone or the bald spot really shows up in the back, a shaved head is pretty much inevitable.

Had a goatee since I was 16 and been shaving my head since I was 25 (I’m 44).

66 klys  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 2:45:14pm

re: #61 Lidane

I will say, my uncle looks better with the shaved head/goatee than he did with the mullet.

And I typically like long hair on guys.

67 Mattand  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 2:46:06pm

re: #44 A Mom Anon

Bringing this up from downstairs, been on the phone, didn’t see the new post….

Well damn. I honestly don’t know what to make of this:

I just got a call from my son’s vocational rehab caseworker. With all the budget madness I really didn’t think this was going to happen but they have cleared the funds for him to enter a program for young adults with autism. He leaves to go to school there next month. Wow. We really had just accepted that all the morons playing politics with the budget would screw this program forever. Now, what services will be available to him is another story, but I take this as a victory.

I don’t know how it happened, but YAY!! I just saw my kid really smile for the first time in a LONG time.

Congrats. Your whole family deserves a break. Hope this is one of many.

68 makeitstop  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 2:47:05pm

re: #61 Lidane

THIS. I’ve known guys over the last decade who decided that shaving their heads and growing a goatee was preferable to combovers or trying to hang on to their hairlines.

It’s actually rare for me to see a guy who is balding anymore. Once the hairline is gone or the bald spot really shows up in the back, a shaved head is pretty much inevitable.

My hairline has receded quite a bit to this point, but I refuse to shave my head.

That’s because I’ve got an enormous head in relation to my body, and shaving it makes it look even bigger. I tried it once, and once was enough.

69 jimmyvluv4u  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 2:47:37pm

re: #62 Mattand

The commentariat (and, frankly, the writers) over there have gone completely off the rails with the anti-NSA stuff. You get downvoted into oblivion for writing anything anti-Snowden. A shame, I like some of there less opinion-y stuff…

70 Kragar  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 2:48:37pm

I used to have long hair up thru my college days. After 8 years in the Marines, I’m just more comfortable with it short. I have scaled back my haircuts to about every 2 months though.

71 Political Atheist  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 2:48:52pm

re: #44 A Mom Anon

Bringing this up from downstairs, been on the phone, didn’t see the new post….

Well damn. I honestly don’t know what to make of this:

I just got a call from my son’s vocational rehab caseworker. With all the budget madness I really didn’t think this was going to happen but they have cleared the funds for him to enter a program for young adults with autism. He leaves to go to school there next month. Wow. We really had just accepted that all the morons playing politics with the budget would screw this program forever. Now, what services will be available to him is another story, but I take this as a victory.

I don’t know how it happened, but YAY!! I just saw my kid really smile for the first time in a LONG time.

If it’s encouraging-Be sure to tell the kid there are a bunch of people he will never meet rooting for you all.

72 GeneJockey  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 2:48:59pm

Every frakkin day when I shave, I think about growing a goatee, or just letting the beard grow back in. What stops me is that, a couple years ago, when I shaved my beard off after 25 years, it was because the damned thing was snow white and I was starting to get a serious ‘Santa Claus’ vibe. Shaving that off took 10 years off my appearance. I still hate shaving, though.

I hate shaving so much, I can’t imagine extending it over my whole head, despite being among the follicularly challenged!

73 klys  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 2:49:45pm

re: #70 Kragar

I used to have long hair up thru my college days. After 8 years in the Marines, I’m just more comfortable with it short. I have scaled back my haircuts to about every 2 months though.

I cut the husband’s hair for him, about once every 8-12 months. I’d do it less often but he gets whiny.

Occasionally he threatens to cut it all off and I reciprocate, which shuts him up.

74 Kragar  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 2:51:57pm

re: #73 klys

I cut the husband’s hair for him, about once every 8-12 months. I’d do it less often but he gets whiny.

Occasionally he threatens to cut it all off and I reciprocate, which shuts him up.

I still can’t grow a beard or mustache though. I could spend a week in the field and still barely look like I need to shave.

My brother on the other hand, full beard and ‘stache, but balding on top.

I’ll say I won that round of the genetic lottery.

75 darthstar  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 2:52:26pm

re: #32 Bulworth

Is the baseball player?

Yep…freak though he is, his politics are in the right place.

76 Mattand  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 2:52:43pm

re: #70 Kragar

I used to have long hair up thru my college days. After 8 years in the Marines, I’m just more comfortable with it short. I have scaled back my haircuts to about every 2 months though.

I think I get maybe 3 haircuts a year, tops. It’s short and then I cut it when it starts getting on my nerves.

I still have most of mine, although the color is fleeing faster than Ted Cruz at a logic convention.

77 Kragar  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 2:54:27pm

re: #76 Mattand

I think I get maybe 3 haircuts a year, tops. It’s short and then I cut it when it starts getting on my nerves.

I still have most of mine, although the color is fleeing faster than Ted Cruz at a logic convention.

I used to try and give it longer, but I don’t like the itchy feeling. About every 2 months, I hit the barber and tell him just use the #2 clippers and even it out from there.

78 dog philosopher  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 2:55:01pm

re: #61 Lidane

THIS. I’ve known guys over the last decade who decided that shaving their heads and growing a goatee was preferable to combovers or trying to hang on to their hairlines.

It’s actually rare for me to see a guy who is balding anymore. Once the hairline is gone or the bald spot really shows up in the back, a shaved head is pretty much inevitable.

if i was gonna get so embarrassed about my bald spot that i had to comb it over or shave off all of my hair, the time to do it would have been 25 years ago

by now i don’t worry about it anymore

79 Mattand  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 2:55:47pm

re: #77 Kragar

I used to try and give it longer, but I don’t like the itchy feeling. About every 2 months, I hit the barber and tell him just use the #2 clippers and even it out from there.

I may go for a beehive the next time I’m in. Shake things up a little.

80 Lidane  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 2:56:34pm

re: #77 Kragar

I used to try and give it longer, but I don’t like the itchy feeling. About every 2 months, I hit the barber and tell him just use the #2 clippers and even it out from there.

My boyfriend doesn’t have a bald spot yet. He keeps it short, though. #2 clippers on the side, #4 clippers on top. He cuts it every couple of months, when it becomes a mop top.

81 klys  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 2:57:17pm

I think guys still have it a lot easier when it comes to hair.

I was in a wedding in August. My hair took longer to do than the bride’s (eep) and I counted when I pulled out the bobby pins: 127.

82 Interesting Times  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 2:57:44pm
83 Patricia Kayden  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 2:59:36pm

re: #6 Kragar

OFFS

Breitbart: Obama Setting Narrative to Blame GOP for Government Shutdown

Because they are to blame, DUH!

84 Kragar  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 3:00:20pm
85 Decatur Deb  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 3:02:42pm

re: #84 Kragar

House GOPer: Senate Will ‘Find Jesus’ And Defund Obamacare

OFFS

If the senators want to find Jesus, he’s outside with the leaf blower.

86 blueraven  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 3:03:12pm

Syria appears to meet first deadline. Submits a list of CW sites.

87 Kragar  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 3:03:17pm

All available evidence says when you “find Jesus”, you become a completely insufferable bastard.

88 Kragar  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 3:03:42pm

re: #85 Decatur Deb

If the senators want to find Jesus, he’s outside with the leaf blower.

Not if the GOP has anything to say about it!
/

89 Kragar  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 3:04:38pm

re: #86 blueraven

Syria appears to meet first deadline. Submits a list of CW sites.

Obviously, this shows Obama is a complete failure.
///

90 Decatur Deb  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 3:05:15pm

re: #88 Kragar

Not if the GOP has anything to say about it!
/

Not so. Some of their ‘compromise’ immigration bills exempt gardeners and nannies from repatriation—for real.

91 Lidane  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 3:08:19pm

re: #85 Decatur Deb

If the senators want to find Jesus, he’s outside with the leaf blower.

South Park Video

92 dog philosopher  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 3:08:48pm

re: #84 Kragar

House GOPer: Senate Will ‘Find Jesus’ And Defund Obamacare

OFFS

mr jesus says stop using his name

93 Decatur Deb  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 3:09:38pm

re: #91 Lidane

Got the still image—no mo’ vid.

94 dog philosopher  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 3:11:18pm

re: #86 blueraven

Syria appears to meet first deadline. Submits a list of CW sites.

“here is a list of all the CW that we are not hiding”

95 blueraven  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 3:11:31pm

re: #86 blueraven

Syria appears to meet first deadline. Submits a list of CW sites.

bbc.co.uk

Syria has begun sending details of its chemical weapons as part of a US-Russia brokered deal to make them safe, the chemical arms watchdog has said.

Separately, two Syrian rebel groups have agreed a ceasefire in the northern town of Azaz after two days of fighting that raised fears of a war within a war.

Michael Luhan, a spokesman for the Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW), which is responsible for policing the treaty outlawing chemical arms, said Syria’s submission was an “initial declaration”.

Mr Luhan said it was now being examined by the organisation’s technical secretariat but he declined to say what was in it.

A UN diplomat confirmed to Reuters that details had been submitted, adding: “It’s quite long… and being translated.”

96 darthstar  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 3:14:37pm
97 darthstar  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 3:20:35pm

Happy POW/MIA day in California.

cert1.mail-west.com

98 Eclectic Cyborg  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 3:26:58pm

the upding counts have gone blank!

99 GeneJockey  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 3:27:07pm

re: #87 Kragar

All available evidence says when you “find Jesus”, you become a completely insufferable bastard.

Oh, I dunno. I think completely insufferable bastards find a different Jesus from the one found by the humble, altruistic types.

Then there’s my brother, who’s both completely insufferable AND altruistic.

100 blueraven  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 3:27:48pm

I don’t know, but I am feeling pretty good today.

The republicans have boxed themselves in and have revealed themselves to be idiots and brutes who care nothing for the less fortunate. They cant hide.

The Pope is making waves with his more tolerant words…not a change in doctrine, but perhaps in focus and intensity.

The Syrians are, so far, complying with Russian/US agreement and Iran is making friendly overtures.

Plus, we got about 4 inches of rain today!! ( I had to rescue two goldfish that went overboard the pond wall with the heavy rate of rainfall)

It may all fall apart tomorrow but I will take it for now.

101 Decatur Deb  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 3:30:27pm

re: #100 blueraven

I don’t know, but I am feeling pretty good today.

The republicans have boxed themselves in and have revealed themselves to be idiots and brutes who care nothing for the less fortunate. They cant hide.

The Pope is making waves with his more tolerant words…not a change in doctrine, but perhaps in focus and intensity.

The Syrians are, so far, complying with Russian/US agreement and Iran is making friendly overtures.

Plus, we got about 4 inches of rain today!! ( I had to rescue two goldfish that went overboard the pond wall with the heavy rate of rainfall)

It may all fall apart tomorrow but I will take it for now.

Youtube Video

102 darthstar  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 3:30:41pm
103 ObserverArt  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 3:32:55pm

re: #22 Kragar

[Embedded content]


Crap, I just buried the DERP needle.

Alex Jones don’t need no damn evidence.

He is a modern day nostradumbass.

104 darthstar  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 3:38:37pm
105 ObserverArt  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 3:39:03pm

re: #61 Lidane

THIS. I’ve known guys over the last decade who decided that shaving their heads and growing a goatee was preferable to combovers or trying to hang on to their hairlines.

It’s actually rare for me to see a guy who is balding anymore. Once the hairline is gone or the bald spot really shows up in the back, a shaved head is pretty much inevitable.

Don’t forget the Harley! Well, at least a black vest and a chain purse.

///

106 Charles Johnson  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 3:41:55pm

I’ve been here, on tour with Al Jarreau:

107 blueraven  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 3:44:19pm

Ha…Krauthammer just said the republicans will be sushi

108 dog philosopher  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 3:51:41pm

re: #107 blueraven

Ha…Krauthammer just said the republicans will be sushi

too far away from elections for any real consequences

109 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 3:53:59pm

Gawd, who is this awful woman, Amy Kremer of the Tea Party Express, on Rev Al? She looks like she came out of a PTA mtg in full makeup. Shrill witch in her WalMart top.

Rev Al is really putting her on the spot.

110 darthstar  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 3:54:06pm

re: #106 Charles Johnson

I’ve been here, on tour with Al Jarreau:

[Embedded content]

Charles is a seekrit mooslim.

111 ObserverArt  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 3:56:54pm

re: #110 darthstar

Charles is a seekrit mooslim.

The Troof comes out!!!

112 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 3:57:47pm

Really California?

instagram.com

113 psddluva4evah  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 3:57:55pm
114 Lidane  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 4:01:59pm

re: #105 ObserverArt

Don’t forget the Harley! Well, at least a black vest and a chain purse.

///

I can’t forget the Harley. Every June thousands of them show up here in Austin. Heh.

115 GeneJockey  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 4:02:08pm

re: #109 Justanotherhuman

Gawd, who is this awful woman, Amy Kremer of the Tea Party Express, on Rev Al? She looks like she came out of a PTA mtg in full makeup. Shrill witch in her WalMart top.

Rev Al is really putting her on the spot.

Funny thing is, sometimes both Left and Right blogospheres tout the same clip, each talking about how thoroughly their guy (or gal) schooled the other guy (or gal).

The Right would have to be capable not only of shame, but also of simple comprehension. Sadly, no.

116 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 4:04:03pm

Oh, yeah, this witch:

“CNN anchor Soledad O’Brien and a panel of guests sharply questioned a Tea Party leader Tuesday after she wondered whether President Barack Obama “loves America.”

(snip)

Kremer, a former flight attendant who helped lead the Tea Party Patriots before founding the Tea Party Express, defended her comments in a series of Twitter messages Tuesday afternoon.

“The left screams racism if u say anything negative abt the pres,” she wrote. “Has nothing 2 do w/race, but everything 2 do w/policies. Gets old. Let me say this loud & clear, any1 tht wnts 2 fundamentally transform America instead of restoring her 2 greatness doesn’t luv this country. Anyone that wants 2 turn US into another European socialist country, doesn’t luv this country. Our heritage is free mkts & capitalism.”

Read more: politico.com

What greatness would that be, Ms. Kremer? Your version?

117 GeneJockey  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 4:06:10pm

re: #116 Justanotherhuman

Oh, yeah, this witch:

“CNN anchor Soledad O’Brien and a panel of guests sharply questioned a Tea Party leader Tuesday after she wondered whether President Barack Obama “loves America.”

(snip)

Kremer, a former flight attendant who helped lead the Tea Party Patriots before founding the Tea Party Express, defended her comments in a series of Twitter messages Tuesday afternoon.

“The left screams racism if u say anything negative abt the pres,” she wrote. “Has nothing 2 do w/race, but everything 2 do w/policies. Gets old. Let me say this loud & clear, any1 tht wnts 2 fundamentally transform America instead of restoring her 2 greatness doesn’t luv this country. Anyone that wants 2 turn US into another European socialist country, doesn’t luv this country. Our heritage is free mkts & capitalism.”

Read more: politico.com

What greatness would that be, Ms. Kremer? Your version?

Oh, you know - Gilded Age, Robber Barons, that sort of thing.

118 psddluva4evah  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 4:06:29pm

re: #113 psddluva4evah

119 dog philosopher  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 4:08:05pm

any1 tht wnts 2 fundamentally

excuse me, i have to explain existentialism to ignatz cat again…

120 Lidane  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 4:09:37pm

Shorter Obama to Boehner:

Image: umadbrah.jpg

121 dog philosopher  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 4:13:32pm

re: #116 Justanotherhuman

Oh, yeah, this witch:

“CNN anchor Soledad O’Brien and a panel of guests sharply questioned a Tea Party leader Tuesday after she wondered whether President Barack Obama “loves America.”

(snip)

Kremer, a former flight attendant who helped lead the Tea Party Patriots before founding the Tea Party Express, defended her comments in a series of Twitter messages Tuesday afternoon.

“The left screams racism if u say anything negative abt the pres,” she wrote. “Has nothing 2 do w/race, but everything 2 do w/policies. Gets old. Let me say this loud & clear, any1 tht wnts 2 fundamentally transform America instead of restoring her 2 greatness doesn’t luv this country. Anyone that wants 2 turn US into another European socialist country, doesn’t luv this country. Our heritage is free mkts & capitalism.”

Read more: politico.com

What greatness would that be, Ms. Kremer? Your version?

“dear diary - caught my son trying to help somebody again today. had to tell him one more time about how jesus said, ‘if someone asks you for your shirt, tell them to get their own damn shirt’”

122 Charles Johnson  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 4:15:02pm

Louis C.K. is funny.

Youtube Video

123 Eclectic Cyborg  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 4:18:32pm

Does anyone else here realize the rest of the world is watching this fight over healthcare and shaking their heads over how utterly stupid it is?

People in nations with Universal care I’m sure are stunned to see a group of people so fervently fighting legislation to bring better access and more affordable health care to their citizens.

Seems like something that should have pretty wide spread support/

124 makeitstop  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 4:19:37pm

re: #113 psddluva4evah

[Embedded content]

I’m getting the feeling that Obama is really gonna torture Republicans this time around.

Which I fully approve of.

125 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 4:22:39pm

Heh. : )

126 Iwouldprefernotto  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 4:22:50pm

re: #124 makeitstop

I’m getting the feeling that Obama is really gonna torture Republicans this time around.

Which I fully approve of.

The best part is that Republicans are thinking he’s going to cave in them.

127 Charles Johnson  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 4:23:39pm

The Republican Party is just full of horrible people these days. I can hardly believe the crap coming out of these over-privileged windbags.

128 b_sharp  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 4:24:12pm

re: #47 Eclectic Cyborg

OT: Is it my imagination or is the Walter White look becoming a fad?

I’m noticing a lot of Bald guys with goatees walking around (including myself) but when I went bald I hadn’t even heard of Breaking Bad.

I’ve had a shaved head for 8 years and a goatee for 30.

I started the fad.

129 Eclectic Cyborg  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 4:25:31pm

Exclusive audio of Obama’s call to Bohener:

Youtube Video

130 b_sharp  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 4:25:45pm

I want a tee-shirt that says:

“So, I’m autistic!
You have a problem with that?”

131 dog philosopher  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 4:26:33pm

re: #128 b_sharp

I’ve had a shaved head for 8 years and a goatee for 30.

I started the fad.

i have a shaved head but i keep in in a drawer

132 Kragar  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 4:27:04pm

Oh, I so want this:

Ferrus Manus, The Gorgon, Primarch of the Iron Hands

Image: ferrus-manus-grey2.jpg

Just some beautiful work on this one.

133 b_sharp  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 4:27:32pm

re: #127 Charles Johnson

The Republican Party is just full of horrible people these days. I can hardly believe the crap coming out of these over-privileged windbags.

Are they new, or have they simply ‘come of age’ and become willing to put their BS on the plate?

134 Stanley Sea  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 4:30:55pm

I love how on NPR they have the story of the House voting to repeal Obamacare, Obama’s response, and then the next story is how over 700K are expected to be signing up in CA.

135 thedopefishlives  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 4:31:35pm

Evening Lizardim from the cool and rainy wild north country. Today marks 5 years of blissful marriage to the beautiful and feisty Mrs. Fish, so we are celebrating by challenging each other to a Chopped style cook-off. I am enjoying the fruits of the Mrs. Fish’s labor right now, and she is a very skilled cook. How go things among the lizardfolk?

136 Stanley Sea  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 4:32:49pm

re: #135 thedopefishlives

Evening Lizardim from the cool and rainy wild north country. Today marks 5 years of blissful marriage to the beautiful and feisty Mrs. Fish, so we are celebrating by challenging each other to a Chopped style cook-off. I am enjoying the fruits of the Mrs. Fish’s labor right now, and she is a very skilled cook. How go things among the lizardfolk?

What ingredients did you give her to work with?

137 thedopefishlives  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 4:34:53pm

re: #136 Stanley Sea

What ingredients did you give her to work with?

She gave me non-alcoholic beer, brie, and mangoes, with which I made beer-battered fried chicken strips, brie and jelly biscuits, and a smoothie. I brought home for her Japanese udon noodles, parmesan cheese, cheddar bratwurst, and Nilla Wafers cookies. She made a hot pasta dish of the noodles, cheese, and bratwurst, and chocolate-and-Nilla-wafer coated strawberries for dessert.

138 Lidane  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 4:37:17pm

re: #129 Eclectic Cyborg

Exclusive audio of Obama’s call to Bohener:

[Embedded content]

I was thinking more of this:

Youtube Video

139 A Mom Anon  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 4:40:10pm

re: #135 thedopefishlives

Very clever anniversary celebration! Congrats.

140 thedopefishlives  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 4:41:15pm

re: #139 A Mom Anon

Very clever anniversary celebration! Congrats.

We’ve done this before just for fun. It’s easy to do - just assign a dollar amount (today was $15) and go nuts at the local grocery store. It’s a perfect way to have fun and learn some new cooking recipes and eat some different food.

141 AlexRogan  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 4:41:29pm

re: #106 Charles Johnson

I’ve been here, on tour with Al Jarreau:

[Embedded content]

Speaking of Jarreau, he’s supposed to be performing here with the Nashville Symphony Sunday night.

142 Stanley Sea  Fri, Sep 20, 2013 4:42:03pm

re: #137 thedopefishlives

She gave me non-alcoholic beer, brie, and mangoes, with which I made beer-battered fried chicken strips, brie and jelly biscuits, and a smoothie. I brought home for her Japanese udon noodles, parmesan cheese, cheddar bratwurst, and Nilla Wafers cookies. She made a hot pasta dish of the noodles, cheese, and bratwurst, and chocolate-and-Nilla-wafer coated strawberries for dessert.

EXCELLENT!

What a cool thing to do. Happy Anniversary Fishes!


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