Shock News! NSA Needs a Warrant to Analyze Social Connections of an American

Not really shocking
US News • Views: 18,682

Following the pattern of pretty much all of the NSA stories sourced to Glenn Greenwald or Laura Poitras (she’s a co-author on this), we have the scary hyperbolic headline and opening paragraph: N.S.A. Gathers Data on Social Connections of U.S. Citizens.

WASHINGTON — Since 2010, the National Security Agency has been exploiting its huge collections of data to create sophisticated graphs of some Americans’ social connections that can identify their associates, their locations at certain times, their traveling companions and other personal information, according to newly disclosed documents and interviews with officials.

Followed by the deeply buried caveat (in this case, in the 24th paragraph) that in order to create these “sophisticated graphs of some Americans’ social connections,” the NSA is required to get individual warrants for each target.

Analysts were warned to follow existing “minimization rules,” which prohibit the N.S.A. from sharing with other agencies names and other details of Americans whose communications are collected, unless they are necessary to understand foreign intelligence reports or there is evidence of a crime. The agency is required to obtain a warrant from the intelligence court to target a “U.S. person” — a citizen or legal resident — for actual eavesdropping.

Again, I have to note what seems to be deliberate conflation of having the ability to do something with actually doing it. The tools they’re describing are strictly limited, and can only be used to analyze the data of American citizens if there’s an individual warrant backed up by suspicion of involvement in terrorism or other serious crimes involving national security. And if a targeted suspect contacts an American citizen, that contact has to be anonymized (“minimized”) and cannot be shared with other agencies.

The only real news here is the release of more formerly secret details about how the NSA does its work. Again, no evidence of wrongdoing, but more evidence that the Greenwald cult’s portrayal of the NSA as a rogue organization operating with very little oversight is ludicrous. This is “whistleblowing?”

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207 comments
1 darthstar  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 11:43:42am

I find it’s easier to read posts by the Greenwald cult from the bottom paragraph up. That way you get the relevant information first and you don’t have to read all the paranoid fear mongering crap they use to make themselves look important.

2 Kragar  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 11:45:12am

Their next big story: The US government kills its citizens!*

*assuming you commit a crime where you can be be given the death penalty and are found guilty in a court of law.

3 Dr. Matt  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 11:45:42am

Lizards, have you confessed your sins to the DMV yet?

4 Lidane  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 11:48:05am

re: #3 Dr. Matt

Lizards, have you confessed your sins to the DMV yet?

It’s too late for me, Butters. I have to go to Russia and live with the commie dwarves.

5 jaunte  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 11:50:38am
…huge collections of data to create sophisticated graphs of some Americans’ social connections that can identify their associates, their locations at certain times, their traveling companions and other personal information…

Linked In?

6 Bulworth  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 11:53:56am
Again, I have to note what seems to be deliberate conflation of having the ability to do something with actually doing it.

But they can do it!!11111
//

7 You_Stole_Fizzy-Lifting_Drinks  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 12:02:02pm

You mean that Greenwald Greenwald’s brood* buried the truth in his story, again? What’s next, the sun rises in the East and sets in the West?

*Corrected to reflect the true author.

8 ObserverArt  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 12:02:23pm

Dagnabit! Sometimes its hard to keep up with the pace of the threads around here!

I still hadn’t gotten a chance to make my initial point when getting into other comments in the Greenwald thread previous. I was going to say it was the proverbial “my shit doesn’t stink” plea from Greenwaldo. His head sure has gotten rather enlarged lately. He can’t see himself in anything anymore, it is all about everyone else. I have a feeling he is going to get himself in some major trouble with that attitude. He is going to piss off the wrong group/person/country and will pay.

9 Eclectic Cyborg  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 12:03:13pm

re: #7 You_Stole_Fizzy-Lifting_Drinks

This isn’t actually Greenwald’s story, although unless you took a look at the byline, you’d probably never notice.

10 You_Stole_Fizzy-Lifting_Drinks  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 12:05:09pm

re: #9 Eclectic Cyborg

Oops. I’m so used to Glenn burying the thing that kills his story between the 11th and 14th paragraph that I simply assumed he wrote it. Seems that Poitras, Sirota, and the other lemmings use the same boilerplate to write their crap.

11 blueraven  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 12:08:39pm

re: #7 You_Stole_Fizzy-Lifting_Drinks

You mean that Greenwald buried the truth in his story, again? What’s next, the sun rises in the East and sets in the West?

Welcome, hatchling.

12 Dr. Matt  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 12:11:02pm

re: #7 You_Stole_Fizzy-Lifting_Drinks

Welcome. FYI. Hatchlings are suppose to bring brownies and coffee.

13 You_Stole_Fizzy-Lifting_Drinks  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 12:11:45pm

re: #11 blueraven

Good to be here. Long-time reader.

14 You_Stole_Fizzy-Lifting_Drinks  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 12:14:18pm

re: #12 Dr. Matt

I brought gobstoppers, kazoozles, and pixysticks.

15 ObserverArt  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 12:14:42pm

re: #13 You_Stole_Fizzy-Lifting_Drinks

Good to be here. Long-time reader.

I think that happens a lot. I know it did for me. I found it just after Obama took office. Signed up but didn’t realize it…and started posting a few months ago. There is reality around here. Hard to find that anymore.

16 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 12:15:57pm
17 Norbrook  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 12:19:43pm

re: #2 Kragar

Their next big story: The US government kills its citizens!*

*assuming you commit a crime where you can be be given the death penalty and are found guilty in a court of law.

Tsk, don’t forget they can search your premises as well, without any adversarial process!*

*assuming that they go to a court and get a search warrant detailing probable cause and what is to be searched.

18 Dr Lizardo  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 12:23:37pm

re: #16 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

The Great Smoky Mountains

or

Solaris?

Hmmmm…….

19 BishopX  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 12:27:36pm

The warrant bit is disengenous.

The NSA requires a warrant to evesdrop on your communications (content). They do not claim to need a warrant to include your data in a network graph so long as the “target” of the effort is related to foreign inteligence.

From the NYTimes story:

In the 2011 memo explaining the shift, N.S.A. analysts were told that they could trace the contacts of Americans as long as they cited a foreign intelligence justification. That could include anything from ties to terrorism, weapons proliferation or international drug smuggling to spying on conversations of foreign politicians, business figures or activists.


Analysts were warned to follow existing “minimization rules,” which prohibit the N.S.A. from sharing with other agencies names and other details of Americans whose communications are collected, unless they are necessary to understand foreign intelligence reports or there is evidence of a crime. The agency is required to obtain a warrant from the intelligence court to target a “U.S. person” — a citizen or legal resident — for actual eavesdropping.

So basically if the NSA targets Greenpeace in Germany, they are allowed to include all US-based Greenpeace activists in the analysis and are also allowed to distribute those activists information outside of the NSA if they find anything incriminating.

They just can’t listen to your phone calls or read your emails to do it (unless they get a warrant).

20 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 12:29:30pm
21 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 12:33:12pm

re: #19 BishopX

So basically if the NSA targets Greenpeace in Germany, they are allowed to include all US-based Greenpeace activists in the analysis and are also allowed to distribute those activists information outside of the NSA if they find anything incriminating.

No, that’s not what it says. It says the NSA can trace the contacts of people suspected of involvement in terrorism or other crimes, not that they can specifically target all members of an organization to which a suspect belongs. And any contacts determined to be US citizens have to be anonymized and minimized, and cannot be shared with foreign intel services.

22 Lidane  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 12:35:19pm

Dipshit wingnut cousin just posted some meme on FB doing the ZOMG OBUMMERCARE IZ SLAVEREE!!! comparison.

He’s family, but goddamn I’m close to either hiding his status updates so I don’t have to read his constant whining and terrible wingnut ideas of humor, or unfriending him.

23 nicdanger  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 12:36:35pm

re: #15 ObserverArt

Reality has been very hard to find recently.I’ve pared my blog reading list way back.Not that I want to be in an echo chamber,but at least here any crazy mofos get flushed pretty quickly.And that makes this place an oasis of sorts.

24 nicdanger  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 12:39:06pm

And I’m not saying that LGF is an echo chamber, just that it is more in line with my own opinions and thought process.

25 b_sharp  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 12:47:59pm

re: #22 Lidane

Dipshit wingnut cousin just posted some meme on FB doing the ZOMG OBUMMERCARE IZ SLAVEREE!!! comparison.

He’s family, but goddamn I’m close to either hiding his status updates so I don’t have to read his constant whining and terrible wingnut ideas of humor, or unfriending him.

So every country with gov’t funded health care is a slave nation?

26 Iwouldprefernotto  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 12:51:10pm

re: #22 Lidane

Dipshit wingnut cousin just posted some meme on FB doing the ZOMG OBUMMERCARE IZ SLAVEREE!!! comparison.

He’s family, but goddamn I’m close to either hiding his status updates so I don’t have to read his constant whining and terrible wingnut ideas of humor, or unfriending him.

Youre: #25 b_sharp

So every country with gov’t funded health care is a slave nation?

I’m still paying off an ER visit because I didn’t have heath insurance. And I didn’t have health insurance because of several preexisting conditions. But at least I’m free.

27 The Ghost of a Flea  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 12:56:25pm

re: #25 b_sharp

It’s Heart of Darkness all the way down.

Except it’s happening to civilized white people…so it’s way worse.

28 b_sharp  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 12:56:26pm

re: #26 Iwouldprefernotto

You

I’m still paying off an ER visit because I didn’t have heath insurance. And I didn’t have health insurance because of several preexisting conditions. But at least I’m free.

Well, not free of the bill…

29 jaunte  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 1:01:00pm
30 Lidane  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 1:08:13pm
31 wrenchwench  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 1:08:40pm
32 Lidane  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 1:09:49pm
33 The Ghost of a Flea  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 1:15:36pm

At this point, the only improvement I can imagine is someone slipping the GOPers a list of other historical atrocities to compare this situation to.

34 Kragar  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 1:18:09pm

re: #29 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Congratulations Mr. Dewhurst, you’re today’s winner of our dumbass motherfucker award.

35 jaunte  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 1:19:20pm

re: #34 Kragar

Give it to David Dewhurst. Rauf’s just reporting what he said.

36 The Ghost of a Flea  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 1:20:12pm

Kentucky Republicans Post Gotcha Vid Of Senate Candidate Riding In Back Seat Of Own Car Like Some La Dee Da Princess Lady

From the hit piece:

Apparently Alison Lundergan Grimes, Kentucky’s Secretary of State who is less than half way through her first term in her first public office, thinks she’s so important that she needs to ride around town in the back seat of a black suburban…driven by personal chauffeur, her husband.

Popular belief was that Hollywood had left Kentucky when Ashley Judd finally was forced out by fellow democrats, but perhaps after rubbing elbows with Harry Reid and Hollywood liberals Alison Lundergan Grimes has returned to KY thinking she’s the new star in town.

While Alison Lundergan Grimes clearly loves the elitest [sic] Hollywood lifestyle, we hope that she will remember the hard working Kentuckians that are losing their jobs due to Obmacare, [sic] Hollywood’s liberal agenda and Barack Obama and Harry Reid’s ‘war on coal.’

Uh-huh.

37 jaunte  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 1:20:39pm

And he’s the Lt. Gov of Texas.
politico.com

38 Kragar  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 1:22:58pm

re: #35 jaunte

Give it to David Dewhurst. Rauf’s just reporting what he said.

Fixed

39 Kragar  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 1:23:32pm

The GOP: “Paying your bills is for the little people.”

40 wrenchwench  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 1:32:00pm

Not Exactly News Dept:


More than 6 in 10 Hispanic respondents said they felt closer to the Democratic Party than they had in the past, while only 3 in 10 said they felt closer to the Republican Party. When Hispanics were asked to offer descriptions of the parties, 48 percent of the responses about the Republicans were negative associations like “intolerant” and “out of touch,” while 22 percent of the responses for the Democrats were negative.
41 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 1:32:20pm

Upper Manhattan Residents Say Skunks Are Stinking Up Neighborhood
newyork.cbslocal.com

heh. When I lived in/ around Boston i’d see/ smell skunks on a regular basis

been living (sort of) in the country outside of Atlanta for the past 15 years, have never seen/ smelled one the entire time here

Every other critter imaginable ,,,, but nary a skiunk

42 Varek Raith  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 1:34:22pm

re: #31 wrenchwench

Heh.

43 Backwoods_Sleuth  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 1:35:10pm

I’m not a huge fan of HuffPo, but (as a journalist who is actually in charge of writing headlines), I think this is a great headline:

A Government Shutdown And Debt Ceiling Guide For Journalists Who Don’t Want To Be Complete Idiots

44 Lidane  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 1:35:18pm

re: #37 jaunte

And he’s the Lt. Gov of Texas.
politico.com

He’s also the guy who lost to Ted Cruz. That should tell you everything you need to know about Dewhurst’s political savvy and intelligence.

45 A Man for all Seasons  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 1:35:36pm

re: #33 The Ghost of a Flea

At this point, the only improvement I can imagine is someone slipping the GOPers a list of other historical atrocities to compare this situation to.

I know..But it always seem the fringes of each party spout BS..From Bush being Hitler or how about that Dem that claimed the Gov’t killed a bunch of people in the swamp after hurricane Katrina? The GOP has been off the track for the last 5 years but there are moonbats trying hard to keep up also..
Fringe are freaks

46 Backwoods_Sleuth  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 1:37:00pm

re: #44 Lidane

He’s also the guy who lost to Ted Cruz. That should tell you everything you need to know about Dewhurst’s political savvy and intelligence.

or the political savvy and intelligence of some Texas voters (obviously Lidane is not included in that observation).

47 Lidane  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 1:37:41pm

When Dudebros Attack:

48 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 1:37:50pm

re: #20 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Hands down the hardest mission in Call of Duty 4.

49 The Ghost of a Flea  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 1:40:03pm

re: #45 A Man for all Seasons

I know..But it always seem the fringes of each party spout BS..From Bush being Hitler or how about that Dem that claimed the Gov’t killed a bunch of people in the swamp after hurricane Katrina? The GOP has been off the track for the last 5 years but there are moonbats trying hard to keep up also..
Fringe are freaks

I don’t care about random people spouting this shit. I don’t care about actors spouting this shit. I disagree with them, but it’s also just expected. People are dumb, and even people who aren’t dumb tend to be ahistorical.

I care when elected officials, the “intellectuals” and “pundits” they meet with, and the people running political machines say it. The fringe is now of the Congress floor, running the major GOP get-togethers, and able to coerce less kooky GOPers by primary-ing them.

50 A Mom Anon  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 1:41:49pm

re: #36 The Ghost of a Flea

OFFS. This is all they got? Someone’s askeered of her. This is as bad as that stupid radio ad they had “what rhymes with Alison Lundergen Grimes?” Dumb shit, like “not ready for prime time”. And they thought they were clever. McConnell’s not used to having to run against anyone who might actually be smart and not easily intimidated.

I hope she kicks his ass. Politically of course.

51 b_sharp  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 1:42:13pm

re: #41 sattv4u2

Upper Manhattan Residents Say Skunks Are Stinking Up Neighborhood
newyork.cbslocal.com

heh. When I lived in/ around Boston i’d see/ smell skunks on a regular basis

been living (sort of) in the country outside of Atlanta for the past 15 years, have never seen/ smelled one the entire time here

Every other critter imaginable ,,,, but nary a skiunk

Dead skunk in the middle of the road.
Youtube Video

52 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 1:42:49pm

I have to think the well is drying up for these NSA stories. Greenwald and Poitras have already released whatever they thought would serve their agenda (and hyped it like crazy), and now all they have left is weak stuff like this.

I mean, come on… how is it news that the NSA creates maps of the connections of terror suspects and natsec criminals? That’s one of their primary purposes.

53 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 1:43:39pm

re: #45 A Man for all Seasons

I know..But it always seem the fringes of each party spout BS..From Bush being Hitler or how about that Dem that claimed the Gov’t killed a bunch of people in the swamp after hurricane Katrina? The GOP has been off the track for the last 5 years but there are moonbats trying hard to keep up also..
Fringe are freaks

The worst elected Dem. fringe politician never tried to shut down the government, or hold the full faith and credit of the United States hostage along with the world economy. Somehow this has become an acceptable point of view among Republican politicians. That’s actually terrifying.

54 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 1:44:56pm

re: #51 b_sharp

Dead skunk in the middle of the road.
[Embedded content]

heh

on my long quite drives home,, the amount of critters I do see “dead in the middle of the road” ,,,,

there are some auto body shops that are making a killing

55 Backwoods_Sleuth  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 1:46:10pm

re: #47 Lidane

When Dudebros Attack:

[Embedded content]

They’ll LOVE this quote:

How charming is divine philosophy! Not harsh and crabbed, as dull fools suppose, But musical as is Apollo’s lute, And a perpetual feast of nectar’d sweets Where no crude surfeit reigns —John Milton

because when teh poorz haz surfeits, the surfeits are crude…

56 Iwouldprefernotto  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 1:47:56pm

re: #52 Charles Johnson

I have to think the well is drying up for these NSA stories. Greenwald and Poitras have already released whatever they thought would serve their agenda (and hyped it like crazy), and now all they have left is weak stuff like this.

I mean, come on… how is it news that the NSA creates maps of the connections of terror suspects and natsec criminals? That’s one of their primary purposes.

But does the NSA still operate if the govt. shuts down?

57 Dr Lizardo  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 1:48:26pm

re: #33 The Ghost of a Flea

At this point, the only improvement I can imagine is someone slipping the GOPers a list of other historical atrocities to compare this situation to.

CHALLENGE ACCEPTED!!

The Massacre of the Innocents
The Rape of the Sabine Women
The Massacre of Nantes
The Katyn Forest Massacre
The Genocide of the Armenians by the Young Turks
The Massacre at Hué
The Massacre of Thessaloniki
The Destruction of Carthage
The Congo Free State Genocide
Cromwell’s Conquest of Ireland
The Liquidation of the Circassians

etc., etc., ad nauseum.

58 A Mom Anon  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 1:48:57pm

re: #53 goddamnedfrank

Were there ever any Democrats saying this crazy kind of shit on the floor of Congress or on the news networks? I don’t remember it, it surely wasn’t a regular thing if it happened. And it’s not just the crazy that freaks me out, it’s the bold, in your face LYING these people are doing to the American people as elected officials. Right now it’s over healthcare and the debt ceiling and debit(which they confuse and use interchangeably knowing full well there’s a difference). Yeah, politicians lie, but this is over the top and it rarely gets called out. And they really shouldn’t be allowed to do it while they’re doing the People’s business. It’s one thing to disagree, fine, give me a reason why you do. But don’t lie, you should lose your job over that.

59 jaunte  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 1:53:59pm
60 The Ghost of a Flea  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 1:56:26pm

re: #58 A Mom Anon

Were there ever any Democrats saying this crazy kind of shit on the floor of Congress or on the news networks? I don’t remember it, it surely wasn’t a regular thing if it happened. And it’s not just the crazy that freaks me out, it’s the bold, in your face LYING these people are doing to the American people as elected officials. Right now it’s over healthcare and the debt ceiling and debit(which they confuse and use interchangeably knowing full well there’s a difference). Yeah, politicians lie, but this is over the top and it rarely gets called out. And they really shouldn’t be allowed to do it while they’re doing the People’s business. It’s one thing to disagree, fine, give me a reason why you do. But don’t lie, you should lose your job over that.

The last time the Democrats acted as crazy as the Republicans are right now, it was the Southern Democrats who became Republicans.

[Drop mike, walk off stage]

61 Amory Blaine  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 1:56:38pm

Philly Fed says Scott Walker, WMC offer misleading data on Wisconsin economy

Top officials with the Federal Reserve Bank of Philadelphia are warning Wisconsin Gov. Scott Walker, Wisconsin Manufacturers & Commerce and others that they are misusing a monthly index produced by its top economists.

Walker in recent speeches has been touting figures from the “Philly Fed,” claiming they show Wisconsin’s economy as No. 2 in the nation. WMC has been using the same number in a series of advertising buys, thanking Walker for putting the state on the road to prosperity.

But officials with the Philly Fed, who have been following the situation in Wisconsin, issued a statement Friday saying it’s a misreading of their “Coincident Indexes” to try and compare one state to another.

62 wrenchwench  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 1:57:28pm

Arg. I just had a customer tell me that people should be going on Facebook to educate themselves about this Obamacare. She’s a high school teacher.

At least she didn’t say people should be going on Facebook to educate themselves about this NSA stuff. But still. She’s smart, funny, snarky; she should be on our side.

63 b_sharp  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 1:57:41pm

re: #54 sattv4u2

heh

on my long quite drives home,, the amount of critters I do see “dead in the middle of the road” ,,,,

there are some auto body shops that are making a killing

Yesterday - 2 skunks, 1 muskrat, 1 raccoon, 1 red fox, 1 cat and several salamanders.

In the past, wolf, coyotes, several fox species, several deer species including moose, beaver, rats, weasel, badger…

64 Lidane  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 1:58:18pm
65 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 1:59:14pm

re: #63 b_sharp

Yesterday - 2 skunks, 1 muskrat, 1 raccoon, 1 red fox, 1 cat and several salamanders.

In the past, wolf, coyotes, several fox species, several deer species including moose, beaver, rats, weasel, badger…

Yup

All those (excluding moose) and the occasional (read,,, every other night) armadillos

66 Belafon  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 2:01:22pm

re: #62 wrenchwench

Did you tell her the correct address to go to?

67 Decatur Deb  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 2:02:18pm

re: #40 wrenchwench

Not Exactly News Dept:

[Embedded content]

“When Hispanics were asked to offer descriptions of the parties, 48 percent of the responses about the Republicans were negative associations like “intolerant” and “out of touch,” …”
“Another 42 percent responded “cabrones”, and the remainder muttered “chocha pingas”.

68 b_sharp  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 2:06:35pm

re: #65 sattv4u2

Yup

All those (excluding moose) and the occasional (read,,, every other night) armadillos

Highways are killing a lot of animals. Up here we’re seeing fewer gophers run over as we select out the stupid ones.

69 wrenchwench  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 2:08:18pm

re: #66 Belafon

Did you tell her the correct address to go to?

I just smiled and said I was looking forward to signing up for health insurance for the first time since 1980-something. She said there’s things in the bill that nobody knows about and the government will have all your bank account numbers… and drifted off, realizing we’re not really going to discuss it.

She left to see if the other bike shop had the cleats she needs, and they did, but want an arm and a leg for them, and she’d rather pay me an arm and a leg to order some for her. She hates the other shop, so I’m not losing a customer over this. Whew.

70 You_Stole_Fizzy-Lifting_Drinks  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 2:10:52pm

re: #64 Lidane

Or the “Reason Why We Can’t Have Nice Things” party.

71 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 2:11:16pm
72 wrenchwench  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 2:11:58pm

And this woman is a walking catalog of pre-existing conditions, including cancer and Hashimoto’s. At some point, she will love Obamacare, I bet.

73 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 2:12:12pm

re: #68 b_sharp

Highways are killing a lot of animals. Up here we’re seeing fewer gophers run over as we select out the stupid ones.

I’m not talking about on the highway. Only about 8 miles of my drive home is on one. Most of it is coutry roads

74 Decatur Deb  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 2:12:33pm

re: #69 wrenchwench

I just smiled and said I was looking forward to signing up for health insurance for the first time since 1980-something. She said there’s things in the bill that nobody knows about and the government will have all your bank account numbers… and drifted off, realizing we’re not really going to discuss it.

She left to see if the other bike shop had the cleats she needs, and they did, but want an arm and a leg for them, and she’d rather pay me an arm and a leg to order some for her. She hates the other shop, so I’m not losing a customer over this. Whew.

Ruining the weekend taking the volunteer Navigator course. There is amazing detail in it, including many things Wife and I had a hard time absorbing, even after being on family plans for 40 years or so. There are also tons of safeguards, but some elements will really freak ultra-cons who run into them.

75 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 2:12:56pm

The new format for embedded tweets with images is pretty cool. Puts the real focus on the picture.

76 Lidane  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 2:13:17pm
77 The Ghost of a Flea  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 2:13:56pm

re: #70 You_Stole_Fizzy-Lifting_Drinks

Or the “Reason Why We Can’t Have Nice Things” party.

More like “Certain People can have Nice Things, because that’s how Free Market Jesus wants it.”

78 wrenchwench  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 2:14:28pm

re: #74 Decatur Deb

Ruining the weekend taking the volunteer Navigator course. There is amazing detail in it, including many things Wife and I had a hard time absorbing, even after being on family plans for 40 years or so. There are also tons of safeguards, but some elements will really freak ultra-cons who run into them.

What’s the deal with the claim I hear about the IRS administering the whole thing? Briefly, if possible….

79 Iwouldprefernotto  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 2:14:50pm

re: #72 wrenchwench

And this woman is a walking catalog of pre-existing conditions, including cancer and Hashimoto’s. At some point, she will love Obamacare, I bet.

No. She will use Obamacare, but the Republicans will keep up the hate machine. It will be like medicare, people who depend on it will claim it’s not a govt. program. Same with social security.

80 Belafon  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 2:15:44pm

re: #72 wrenchwench

I suspect she’ll complain in the future, when the next year’s increase in premiums comes out to 1.6%, that private business would have held prices down better.

81 Decatur Deb  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 2:17:00pm

re: #78 wrenchwench

What’s the deal with the claim I hear about the IRS administering the whole thing? Briefly, if possible….

IRS has an important role, such as validating income numbers for people who qualify for income tax breaks and reduced ‘cost sharing’. It’s benign, but Greenwald would complain.

82 Dr Lizardo  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 2:17:08pm

re: #79 Iwouldprefernotto

No. She will use Obamacare, but the Republicans will keep up the hate machine. It will be like medicare, people who depend on it will claim it’s not a govt. program. Same with social security.

You’re probably right. After about 10 years to one generation, the RW’ers will insist “…..it’s not a government program!” or some such drivel.

83 Backwoods_Sleuth  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 2:18:48pm

re: #80 Belafon

I suspect she’ll complain in the future, when the next year’s increase in premiums comes out to 1.6%, that private business would have held prices down better.

Just like private business has done for decades!

oh…wait…

84 Iwouldprefernotto  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 2:19:18pm

re: #82 Dr Lizardo

You’re probably right. After about 10 years to one generation, the RW’ers will insist “…..it’s not a government program!” or some such drivel.

It’s a losing argument for Republicans, but they will still make it. And they will get louder and louder until they die.

85 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 2:21:22pm
86 Dr Lizardo  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 2:23:21pm

re: #84 Iwouldprefernotto

It’s a losing argument for Republicans, but they will still make it. And they will get louder and louder until they die.

That’s all too true.

I’ve been watching pretty much all day what’s been going down in Greece, were the far-right (read that as “neo-Nazi/fascist”) Golden Dawn Party has just gotten its ass kicked, and all quite legally.

So today, it was a good day. I play the world’s tiniest violin for the G.D.

87 b_sharp  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 2:25:05pm

re: #73 sattv4u2

I’m not talking about on the highway. Only about 8 miles of my drive home is on one. Most of it is coutry roads

How far do you drive?

Much of my driving in on gravel roads too.

88 The Ghost of a Flea  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 2:25:11pm

re: #86 Dr Lizardo

That’s all too true.

I’ve been watching pretty much all day what’s been going down in Greece, were the far-right (read that as “neo-Nazi/fascist”) Golden Dawn Party has just gotten its ass kicked, and all quite legally.

So today, it was a good day. I play the world’s tiniest violin for the G.D.

Got a link for that? I’m curious, and not above schadenfreude.

Because seriously, fuck the Golden Dawn and all the other resurgent NeoNazis.

89 A Man for all Seasons  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 2:27:42pm

re: #60 The Ghost of a Flea

The last time the Democrats acted as crazy as the Republicans are right now, it was the Southern Democrats who became Republicans.

[Drop mike, walk off stage]

agreed.. And let’s clarify something.. I’m not here to be a magical Balance dupe to justify political positions. I left the GOP for good..But that isn’t to excuse either party for the fringe groups…Just because the ones in power has a superior messaging machine doesn’t mean shit. ’ I didn’t have sex with that woman ’ doesn’t mean a thing…As a little kid watching TV eating cerial watching LBJ declare we needed to win Vietnam or else the whole world world would be become commie..Now that was a time we needed the Government shut down and take a time out. 55,000 dead for no reason at all.. Iraq? 10’s of thousands died for no reason at all…I don’t know..I could quote Shelia Jackson all day long and shut down this discussion…My point is that there are fringe groups in each party.
I can’t stand what the GOP has become as the fringe took over the party.
Thank God the Dems didn’t allow that to happen to the party.. I’d change my view if Code Pink took over the DOD. Never going to happen.. But the NRA for instance probably controls and has influence with great swaths of the GOP. I will fight them at every turn…I can post year on some of the sins of the Dems because I feel we all want a better party without primarying out the rank and file.
When I criticize our part it is only to grow our message and make it better for the USA. Not to tear down the foundations.
I hope folks understand my motivations.

90 Dr Lizardo  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 2:28:12pm

re: #88 The Ghost of a Flea

Got a link for that? I’m curious, and not above schadenfreude.

Because seriously, fuck the Golden Dawn and all the other resurgent NeoNazis.

Yep.

ekathimerini.com

bbc.co.uk

Glorious. The neo-Nazis are having a massive sad.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

91 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 2:31:52pm

re: #87 b_sharp

How far do you drive?

Much of my driving in on gravel roads too.

just over 35 miles each way. About 6 miles from here (work) to the highway. Anthoer 8 on the highway. then every 5 miles or so after the raods get narrower and less populated till i get home

92 Backwoods_Sleuth  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 2:35:18pm

re: #87 b_sharp

How far do you drive?

Much of my driving in on gravel roads too.

you haz gravel????

I haz doubtful dirt roads…

93 b_sharp  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 2:41:13pm

re: #91 sattv4u2

just over 35 miles each way. About 6 miles from here (work) to the highway. Anthoer 8 on the highway. then every 5 miles or so after the raods get narrower and less populated till i get home

I drive from 300 to 650 Kms when I go out (about 3 days a week) but most of my destinations are with 15kms of the highway so my off-highway driving isn’t as much as yours.

94 b_sharp  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 2:43:26pm

re: #92 Backwoods_Sleuth

you haz gravel????

I haz doubtful dirt roads…

We are gravel, and sand, and clay.

We have many dirt trails but the roads are built of clay with gravel on top.
Many areas of the north have no roads at all.

95 Decatur Deb  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 2:44:42pm

re: #78 wrenchwench

What’s the deal with the claim I hear about the IRS administering the whole thing? Briefly, if possible….

Left off the less benign IRS part—the much debated tax/fee leveled on those who should carry insurance, but don’t, is an IRS function. It’s collected on the income tax return of the year following the period of non-coverage. can be quite stiff for a middle-class family in the second or third iteration.
People will not be penalized unreasonably—there is a list of exemptions for those who can’t play for economic (and religious) reasons.
About to dive back in the training modules.

96 wrenchwench  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 2:46:14pm

re: #95 Decatur Deb

I think it’s great you’re doing that. Thanks for sharing the info.

97 ProTARDISLiberal  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 2:49:09pm

re: #67 Decatur Deb

Translate those 2 insults please?

98 Decatur Deb  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 2:49:16pm

re: #96 wrenchwench

I think it’s great you’re doing that. Thanks for sharing the info.

Might do a page—there is a lot of stuff in there that contradicts the BS the TPGOP is pushing. Halfway through the flowchart on helping people sign up, and there is no sign of any bank account or similar info.

99 Decatur Deb  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 2:50:46pm

re: #97 ProTARDISLiberal

Translate those 2 insults please?

Must ask you to use online services—don’t want Sister Mary Claver and her damn ruler in my dreams.

100 Belafon  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 2:54:27pm

re: #98 Decatur Deb

That would actually be great. Richard Mayhew at Balloon Juice has been doing a series of posts about the ACA. Any additional information would be great.

101 BishopX  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 2:58:24pm

re: #21 Charles Johnson

No, that’s not what it says. It says the NSA can trace the contacts of people suspected of involvement in terrorism or other crimes, not that they can specifically target all members of an organization to which a suspect belongs. And any contacts determined to be US citizens have to be anonymized and minimized, and cannot be shared with foreign intel services.

I really need to stop posting before I step out…

The NSA can target any foreign national it’s interested in (terrorists, diplomats, activists, drug smugglers etc.). They’re allowed to include anyone in these searches without regard to whether or not they’re a US citizen or reside in the US (i.e. they search un-minimized data). They only need a warrant if the initial target is a US person (citizen or resides in the US).

The NSA is required to minimize US person data when the intel leaves the NSA unless A) they decide the US person has committed a crime or B) the name/personal details of that person are required to make sense of a piece of foreign intelligence.

That’s a pretty weak standard IMO, especially since one of the examples of foreign intel given in the times is international drug smuggling.

With regards to the Greenpeace example, the NSA has 164 relationship types which classiffy relationships between nodes in the analysis (it’s not clear if all nodes are people, some may be physical devices). Examples of these relationship types I’ve found so far are:

-travelsWith
- hasFather
- sentForumMessage
-employs
-groupMember
-listedIn
-addressedBy
-ofInterestTo

As always we’re basing this off of PowerPoint slides, not software specifications, but it sounds to me like it’s probable that having you name on the same list as a targets name is enough to get you included in a network graph.

102 Killgore Trout  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 3:00:57pm

Fact Check: Spinning Premium Rates

Both sides in the great Obamacare debate are distorting the facts about premium rates on the soon-to-open health exchanges to make their case for or against the law:
◾President Obama gave false comparisons, saying that average premiums for the exchange in Illinois were 25 percent lower than current individual market rates. Illinois officials compared exchange rates with what the federal government had predicted the exchange premiums would be — not with current individual market pricing.
◾Obama said the average decrease in California was 33 percent. But officials said premiums were up to 29 percent lower compared with small-employer plans — not individual plans.
◾Sen. Ted Cruz claimed that the Ohio Department of Insurance announced an 88 percent average increase for the individual market. It didn’t. The department estimated a 41 percent increase on average in a press release that called for the law’s repeal.

103 William Barnett-Lewis  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 3:03:07pm

re: #102 Killgore Trout

I see the MBF is out in force again. Must be how they plan to be relevant until the next elections start up.

104 Killgore Trout  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 3:05:26pm

re: #103 William Barnett-Lewis

I see the MBF is out in force again. Must be how they plan to be relevant until the next elections start up.

Beware the FactCheking-Industrial Complex!

105 Lidane  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 3:06:48pm

re: #102 Killgore Trout

Because both sides are threatening total economic collapse over Obamacare. Oh, wait. They’re not.

Why not go find some OWS outrage to be outraged about?

106 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 3:09:47pm

re: #105 Lidane

Because both sides are threatening total economic collapse over Obamacare. Oh, wait. They’re not.

Why not go find some OWS outrage to be outraged about?

yup

Lots of outrage in #102

it’s right ,, umm,, right over in ,,, ahhh,,,

hold on. i’ll find some. i know I will!!

107 darthstar  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 3:10:57pm

re: #102 Killgore Trout

You said ‘both sides’…You do realize that those two words invalidate the rest of any argument you try to make, right?

108 Lidane  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 3:11:43pm

re: #106 sattv4u2

Pretending that “both sides do it” when it comes to all this bullshit over Obamacare is dishonest and stupid. The GOP are the party threatening to destroy the world economy because they lost in 2008 and 2012. The Dems aren’t. It’s as simple as that.

109 darthstar  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 3:12:07pm

re: #108 Lidane

Pretending that “both sides do it” when it comes to all this bullshit over Obamacare is dishonest and stupid. The GOP are the party threatening to destroy the world economy because they lost in 2008 and 2012. The Dems aren’t. It’s as simple as that.

Bolded for truth.

110 darthstar  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 3:15:48pm
111 jaunte  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 3:18:06pm

The shocking truth about Obamacare’s rate shock

Ezra Klein:

“…Comparing the pre-underwriting price of this plan [HealthNet’s IFP PPO Value 4500] to those in Obamacare’s exchanges is ridiculous. The plans in Obamacare’s exchanges have to include those people. [the sick, were sick, or likely to get sick]
They can’t turn anyone away or jack up rates because of a history of arthritis or heart disease.”

112 sagehen  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 3:23:36pm

re: #102 Killgore Trout

Fact Check: Spinning Premium Rates

My rates have gone down.

My individual policy used to be a hospitalization and catastrophic plan, plus lab tests and small co-pay for meds, I was out of pocket for office visits… now it also covers an annual check-up and they’ll pay for my mammogram. NY state already had shall-issue rules, so getting younger and healthier people into the pool intersects nicely with the “must spend 85% of premiums on actual care” provision. For me, ACA is a success.

113 Killgore Trout  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 3:24:05pm

re: #107 darthstar

You said ‘both sides’…You do realize that those two words invalidate the rest of any argument you try to make, right?

I said? that was a quote from the article, you should read it.

114 Iwouldprefernotto  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 3:24:34pm

re: #112 sagehen

My rates have gone down.

My individual policy used to be a hospitalization and catastrophic plan, plus lab tests and small co-pay for meds, I was out of pocket for office visits… now it also covers an annual check-up and they’ll pay for my mammogram. NY state already had shall-issue rules, so getting younger and healthier people into the pool intersects nicely with the “must spend 85% of premiums on actual care” provision. For me, ACA is a success.

You are not a true American.

115 Killgore Trout  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 3:24:45pm

re: #112 sagehen

My rates have gone down.

My individual policy used to be a hospitalization and catastrophic plan, plus lab tests and small co-pay for meds, I was out of pocket for office visits… now it also covers an annual check-up and they’ll pay for my mammogram. NY state already had shall-issue rules, so getting younger and healthier people into the pool intersects nicely with the “must spend 85% of premiums on actual care” provision. For me, ACA is a success.

It’ll be a success for me too, I’m really looking forward to it.

116 wrenchwench  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 3:26:23pm

re: #113 Killgore Trout

I said? that was a quote from the article, you should read it.

I read it. Here’s my summary:

Obama was off by a few percentage points in his claims, and sometimes compared unlike to unlike, rather than like-to-like, in a situation where it’s almost impossible to compare like-to-like. Ted Cruz lied his ass off.

117 Killgore Trout  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 3:28:02pm

I’m low income and buy my own insurance. Healthcare reform will save me $3-4,000. That doesn’t mean everything Obama ways magically becomes true just because he says it. Politicians say things. There will be some problems to iron out but I really hope this works.

118 wrenchwench  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 3:28:29pm
Cruz may have pulled his 88 percent figure from further down…

.

.

.

…in the press release.

119 Killgore Trout  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 3:31:43pm

re: #118 wrenchwench

Here’s a roundup of recent Ted Cruz fact checks (CONTENT WARNING: May contain some fact checking of Obama statements too)
FactChecking ‘Pernicious’ Obamacare Claims

There’s plenty of fodder for fact-checkers in Sen. Ted Cruz’s looong attack on Obamacare, and in President Obama’s defense of it.

120 wrenchwench  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 3:36:14pm

re: #119 Killgore Trout

Here’s a roundup of recent Ted Cruz fact checks (CONTENT WARNING: May contain some fact checking of Obama statements too)
FactChecking ‘Pernicious’ Obamacare Claims

Ends with:

There may be more to do on the events staged by Cruz and Obama. We were only able to review the first 51 pages of Cruz’s floor speech in the Congressional Record, and there are some statements made by Clinton and Obama that we are still checking out. So check back with us soon.

Their model is to ‘fact-check both sides’, but it just makes them look foolish when it amounts to

Cruz—lie

Cruz—lie

Cruz—lie

Cruz—lie

Cruz—lie

Obama—exaggeration

Cruz—lie

Cruz—lie

Cruz—lie

Cruz—lie

etc.

121 allegro  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 3:37:35pm

re: #111 jaunte

The shocking truth about Obamacare’s rate shock

Ezra Klein:

This. I’m one of those. After getting cancer almost 3 years ago I was dropped from my both expensive and high deductible health insurance. Pretty much wiped me out financially and of course made me uninsurable at any cost. Looking at preliminary numbers on a website someone shared I was thrilled at what I saw - I can afford health insurance again! The ACA literally means life and death to many of us.

122 Bulworth  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 3:43:17pm
Washington (AFP) - Setting up a high-stakes political showdown, the US House votes Saturday on a Republican plan that keeps government open through mid-December but delays implementation of President Barack Obama’s health care law.

But Democrats made it clear that such a move will almost certainly result in a shutdown of federal agencies after the fiscal year ends Monday night.

House Speaker John Boehner gathered his caucus and convened a rare Saturday session as Congress struggled to break a funding impasse that, if unresolved, would require hundreds of thousands of federal workers to stay home.

More than a million US military personnel would remain on duty, but with no pay until a spending deal is reached.

Under pressure from his party’s far-right conservative wing, Boehner doubled down on his caucus’s bid to stop Obama’s signature domestic achievement, vowing to send a bill back to the Senate but with little time for legislative action to avoid a shutdown.

If Republicans vote in unison as expected, the House will approve a measure “that will keep the government open and stop as much of the president’s health care law as possible,” Boehner said in a statement.

Gosh, what a sweet deal. Maintains shitty sequester for two months, not counting whatever concessions teabag party wants to demand to raise debt ceiling in two weeks, followed by more demands when this short CR runs out before Xmas. Why would’t Obama and Dems gladly sign this “compromise”?

////////

123 Mattand  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 3:48:33pm

re: #120 wrenchwench

Their model is to ‘fact-check both sides’, but it just makes them look foolish when it amounts to

Cruz—lie

Cruz—lie

Cruz—lie

Cruz—lie

Cruz—lie

Obama—exaggeration

Cruz—lie

Cruz—lie

Cruz—lie

Cruz—lie

etc.

You’re clearly being soul-crushingly partisan. The Magic Balance Fairy is most displeased.

124 wrenchwench  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 3:56:44pm

Back to the NSA for a moment.

Administration officials are confident that existing safeguards are sufficient to protect the privacy and civil liberties of Americans, the officials say. In some cases, they said, the Justice Department eventually seeks warrants if it wants to expand the eavesdropping to include communications confined within the United States. The officials said the administration had briefed Congressional leaders about the program and notified the judge in charge of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court, the secret Washington court that deals with national security issues.

The White House asked The New York Times not to publish this article, arguing that it could jeopardize continuing investigations and alert would-be terrorists that they might be under scrutiny. After meeting with senior administration officials to hear their concerns, the newspaper delayed publication for a year to conduct additional reporting. Some information that administration officials argued could be useful to terrorists has been omitted.

That’s from 2005. I guess it was a very different time somehow.

125 piratedan  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 3:58:14pm

re: #124 wrenchwench

we’re obviously suffering from melanin induced derangement

126 wrenchwench  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 4:00:11pm

re: #125 piratedan

we’re obviously suffering from melanin induced derangement

Yeah, the relative distance from 9-11-01 doesn’t explain it. There have been enough attacks and threats since then that national security should still be a concern.

127 piratedan  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 4:09:43pm

re: #126 wrenchwench

Yeah, the relative distance from 9-11-01 doesn’t explain it. There have been enough attacks and threats since then that national security should still be a concern.

I don’t disagree that there’s a certain element of sissy, liberal, Democrats and DFH punching element at play here, but something snapped in roughly 25% of the population that simply is wholly unaccepting of a Black Man in the White House. Sure, they trot out Michael Steele and Herman Cain and Clarence Thomas, but those guys are window dressing and the masks keep falling as it’s revealed to be further and further to be the old southern white theological bigot club. Those folks have totally lost their shit. Doesn’t matter what Obama puts forth, it’ll never be accepted or deemed good enough.

Is Obama a bit too corporate for my taste, yes, yes he is but he’s threaded the needle multiple times in dealing with the Middle East, The Arab Spring, dealing with Corporate America stabbing him in the back after he saved their asses and managed to get some semblance of a health care upgrade that will benefit millions of Americans and still find a way to keep the economy out of a ditch and guide us to some modernization on dealing with people of varying sexual persuasions. I still wonder what might have been if Franken gets seated earlier and Kennedy and Byrd don’t kick off six months after he was elected. Some of which is a huge credit to Pelosi for being as efficient as she was.

128 jaunte  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 4:09:59pm
129 CuriousLurker  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 4:21:29pm

re: #128 jaunte

Youtube Video

ENGLISH:

You’re a mountain, but a
swearing mountain.
You’re death, but death
that may shake.

Mountain of lava,
of hundreds of streets,
you hold my life in your hands.

Is this a place for homes
or a place for jail?
Where you’re locked
from morning till night?

You’re purgatory for
all these people
who live in slums
and who live in need.

Whether you smoke or not
you still make noise
it’s the fire you bear
in your heart.

When the night falls
and the sky gets dark
the mere thought of you
makes us tremble.

Those who live with you
don’t be surprised
if they go mad
they really are mad.

The only safety for us
would be to run away from you…
and yet, where shall we go?
sooner or later
this river of lava
will drag us along and
leave us homeless.

You’re a mountain, but what a mountain.

————-

NAPOLI:

Si monte sì, ma monte
e na iastemma
si a morte sì, ma a morte
ca pò tremma

Muntagna fatta e lava
e ciente vie
tu tiene mmano a te sta vita mia

So pizzi e case
o so pizzi e galera?
arò stai chiuso
ra matina a sera

Si o purgatorio e tutte
chesta gente
ca vive inte barracche
e vive e stiente

Si fumme o si nun fumme
faie rummore
è o ffuoco ca te puorte
rinto core

Quanno fa notte
e o cielo se fa scuro
sulo o ricordo e te
ce fa paura

Chi campa nzieme a te
te pare niente
si esce pazzo
è pazzo overamente

Lunica verità pe tutte quante
sarria chella e fuì
ma po arò iammo
primma ca cocche ghiuorne
stu ffuoco e lava
ce porta a tuttu quante
mmieza via !

Si monte sì, ma monte

130 ProTARDISLiberal  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 4:35:59pm

I wish the Republican Party would take note of what their ideological brethren in Tunisia did today, and step down.

131 sagehen  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 4:36:22pm

OT for Television Talk!! Everybody check out the pilots yet?


Hostages: the premise can’t hold for long… but I like Dylan McDermott so I won’t give up yet.

Blacklist: much better than the premise sounds. James Spader is awesome, the rest of the cast I’d never heard of before is awesome, and the writing, direction and cinematography so far is sharp. Two thumbs up.

Sleepy Hollow: cheesy as hell, but my new genre crush. Fanfic so far is mostly humor based around “Ichabod meets the internet, Ichabod gets an iPhone, Ichabod in a jacuzzi”… but I have hopes.

Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. — I’ve never seen any of the Avengers movies, or read the comics, which might be why I don’t hate it as much as my f-List does. Lukewarm.

Dads: OMG it sucks so bad. I’m disappointed, I like Martin Mull and wanted to like the show.

Trophy Wife: I suppose if there’s nothing else on I’d find it reasonably non-offensive, but it’s not great. I wanted to like it (Bradley Whitford!!), but meh.

Back in the Game: apparently James Caan and Scott Caan are trying to make their characters related. I swear this alcoholic retired baseball player, emotionally abusive bad father, has every hand gesture and vocal snap as Danno Williams. But it works better on Danno.

Brooklyn 99: Kind of cute, but not great. The writing isn’t sharp enough to make best use of Andy Samberg and Andre Braugher.

The Goldbergs: The 80’s were dull. This sitcom set in the 80’s is dull. Anybody who grew up in the 80’s will find it dull. People in their 80’s might like it.

The Crazy Ones: when you set your show in an ad agency, the product placement possibilities are limitless. Also, it sucks so much more than Robin Williams and Sarah Michelle Geller should ever suck.

The Michael J. Fox Show: That’s my neighborhood!! They use my subway station, the bench they’re sitting on for the cast photo at the end of the credits is the exact same bench I sit on after the gym to eat a bagel and read the paper. And the itsy bitsy park they’re sitting in front of, in the neighborhood’s pre-gentrification days was needle park (as in, “Panic in Needle Park”. The place was much grittier then, when my grandparents took this apartment at what was then a fair price for such a dangerous area. Thanks to the wonders of rent control, I now live in luxury for less than 1/3 market value. Socialism!!). But I digress; I was going to say something about the show, wasn’t I? Not bad I suppose, I wasn’t paying attention. Hey look! they buy food from the same market I do!!

132 Kragar  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 4:37:07pm

re: #129 CuriousLurker

Oh Baby, every time we kiss… HOT LAVA!

Youtube Video

133 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 4:37:46pm

re: #131 sagehen

missed em all
(and this, from a guy that’s in the TV broadcast biz!!!)

134 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 4:40:01pm

re: #131 sagehen

re: #133 sattv4u2

Downton Abbey starts in January. :)

135 Interesting Times  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 4:41:17pm

re: #134 PhillyPretzel

Downton Abbey starts in January. :)

Yes, but they killed off one of the main characters cuz he was sick of being on the show :( I really can’t see where they can go with the series now…

136 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 4:42:12pm

re: #135 Interesting Times

I am willing to wait to see what happens.

137 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 4:42:58pm

Who says families don’t do things together anymore!!!

thesmokinggun.com

Mother And Son Arrested For Strong-Arm Robbery Spree Outside Houston
//

138 sagehen  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 4:44:06pm

re: #134 PhillyPretzel

Downton Abbey starts in January. :)

And Sherlock not long after.

139 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 4:45:43pm

re: #138 sagehen

True. And do not forget the rest of PBS line-up.

140 sagehen  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 4:49:20pm

re: #139 PhillyPretzel

I’ve been enjoying Last Tango in Halifax, and I loved The Bletchly Circle. Does Call the Midwife have another season coming?

141 Decatur Deb  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 4:50:44pm

WW—Found a point at which an individual could voluntarily submit bank info to the ACA insurer—the obvious situation in which they wanted to pay their premiums to the insurance company website online. Assistance workers are specifically required to avoid learning the customer’s data. The insured have mail and other routes of payment as set out by their company. That’s the only financial info issue so far.

Like all good BS, there is a tiny bit of fact to hang Bank Lady’s story on.

142 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 4:50:47pm

re: #140 sagehen

You would have to check your local PBS listings.

143 Decatur Deb  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 4:52:55pm

re: #142 PhillyPretzel

You would have to check your local PBS listings.

On the back of the tote bag.

144 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 4:54:06pm

re: #143 Decatur Deb

lol. Here is what WHYY is showing now. whyy.org

145 SnowdenBaggerVance  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 4:55:07pm

Happy Shutdown Saturday.

146 Decatur Deb  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 4:56:22pm

re: #144 PhillyPretzel

lol. Here is what WHYY is showing now. whyy.org

Going to catch an old Inspector Lewis in an hour. Getting into Foyle’s War, but nothing touches the Morse cycle.

147 wrenchwench  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 4:57:10pm

I was almost persuaded.

Youtube Video

148 Kragar  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 4:57:27pm
149 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 4:57:57pm

re: #146 Decatur Deb

I am watching America’s Test Kitchen and Cooks Country mini marathon. Next is homemade ice cream. Yumm.

150 Decatur Deb  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 4:59:14pm

re: #149 PhillyPretzel

I am watching America’s Test Kitchen and Cooks Country mini marathon. Next is homemade ice cream. Yumm.

There’s a theme in there somewhere.

151 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 4:59:47pm

re: #150 Decatur Deb

The theme is comfort food.

152 Carlos Danger  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 5:00:58pm

re: #148 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Republicans are so all over the place right now. I’m seeing other Republicans say they’re doing it because they CARE SO MUCH about future generations.

153 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 5:01:25pm

re: #149 PhillyPretzel

I am watching America’s Test Kitchen and Cooks Country mini marathon. Next is homemade ice cream. Yumm.

One day, two friends, Ben and Jerry were just sitting around watching TV. A show came on about homeade ice cream.

Ben looked at Jerry
Jerry looked at Ben

The rest is history!!
/

154 Bulworth  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 5:02:46pm

Lincoln is on now. Everybody take a seat.

155 Carlos Danger  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 5:03:47pm

By the way, I was a music festival today, and some asshole in a loud pickup truck kept cruising around with two flags in the back- an American flag and the GOP elephant.

Good fucking grief.

156 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 5:03:50pm

re: #154 Bulworth

Lincoln is on now. Everybody take a seat.

In the theatre balcony!!?!?!?

157 Kragar  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 5:06:43pm

re: #156 sattv4u2

In the theatre balcony!!?!?!?

SIC SEMPER TYRANNOSAURUS!
/

158 jaunte  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 5:09:51pm

re: #154 Bulworth

No spoilers.

159 Kragar  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 5:10:19pm

re: #158 jaunte

No spoilers.

I hear he kills a bunch of vampires.

160 Bulworth  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 5:11:23pm

re: #148 Kragar

Bryan doesn’t listen very well.

161 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 5:11:55pm

re: #158 jaunte

No spoilers.

surprise ending

he and the mrs. skip the play and stay home to watch American Idol instead

162 Bulworth  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 5:12:03pm

re: #158 jaunte

I could put them in the special spoiler tag anyway.

163 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 5:12:18pm

re: #148 Kragar

[Embedded content]

LOL, Bryan, the House hasn’t passed the bill back to the Senate yet. They’ve just scheduled a vote. He’s prematurely ejaculating.

164 Bulworth  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 5:13:46pm

re: #148 Kragar

Bryan’s not much for details, is he?

165 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 5:14:51pm
166 Kragar  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 5:16:21pm

re: #164 Bulworth

Bryan’s not much for details, is he?

Not really.

167 Stanley Sea  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 5:16:43pm

re: #148 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Deranged

168 Decatur Deb  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 5:16:59pm

re: #163 goddamnedfrank

LOL, Bryan, the House hasn’t passed the bill back to the Senate yet. They’ve just scheduled a vote. He’s prematurely ejaculating exasperating.

169 Bulworth  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 5:17:32pm

re: #166 Kragar

I guess the Senate and the President don’t matter./

170 A Mom Anon  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 5:21:32pm

re: #169 Bulworth

Someone needs to send Nostradumbass there the link to the Schoolhouse Rock video about how a bill becomes a law.

Maybe he’s so mean because that level of stupid gives him a constant headache.

171 wrenchwench  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 5:22:40pm

Your False-Equivalence Guide to the Days Ahead

[…]

As a matter of journalism, any story that presents the disagreements as a “standoff,” a “showdown,” a “failure of leadership,” a sign of “partisan gridlock,” or any of the other usual terms for political disagreement, represents a failure of journalism*** and an inability to see or describe what is going on. For instance: the “dig in their heels” headline you see below, which is from a proprietary newsletter I read this morning, and about which I am leaving off the identifying details.

This isn’t “gridlock.” It is a ferocious struggle within one party, between its traditionalists and its radical factions, with results that unfortunately can harm all the rest of us — and, should there be a debt default, could harm the rest of the world too.

[…]

RTWT

172 abolitionist  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 5:24:59pm

Charles, I don’t share your confidence that our government respects our Constitution. I was disabused of that notion half a lifetime ago.

The RSA algorithm was publicly described in 1977 by Ron Rivest, Adi Shamir, and Leonard Adleman at MIT; the letters RSA are the initials of their surnames, listed in the same order as on the paper.[3]

Search Warrant clearly specified “marijuanna” but my free-by-request copy of that paper from MIT was taken from my living room wall by the bunko squad.

173 wrenchwench  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 5:27:52pm

Instead of kitteh, more Etta.

Youtube Video

Later, lizards.

174 Kragar  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 5:32:58pm


Troll says what?

175 Amory Blaine  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 5:33:49pm

WTF is with Pat Buchanan, “McCainiacs”?

176 SnowdenBaggerVance  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 5:33:52pm

re: #171 wrenchwench

This is potentially the End Times as we know it for the representative democracy known at the US government.

177 SnowdenBaggerVance  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 5:35:25pm

re: #174 Kragar

[Embedded content]


Troll Pied Piper of Moronic Fuckdard Trolls says what?

There, little better.

178 Amory Blaine  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 5:36:21pm

re: #176 SnowdenBaggerVance

This is potentially the End Times as we know it for the representative democracy known at the US government.

There was an awkward pause when our cat and bird saw me come in the living room…

179 ProTARDISLiberal  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 5:36:59pm

I need a response to this vapid dimwit in the pic below.

Nobody insults my Alma Mater.

I’ve heard about recent issues at Notre Dame involving sexual assault. Can people give me a clue x 4 on that or other issues at Notre Dame.

180 allegro  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 5:37:22pm

re: #178 Amory Blaine

There was an awkward pause when our cat and bird saw me come in the living room…

There are two ways to read that…

181 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 5:38:39pm

re: #179 ProTARDISLiberal

Can people give me a clue x 4 on that or other issues at Notre Dame.

yeah

The exact same as any other college/ university including your Alma Mater

182 prairiefire  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 5:40:03pm

Hey, lizards, hope you are well!

183 sagehen  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 5:41:14pm

re: #179 ProTARDISLiberal

I need a response to this vapid dimwit in the pic below.

[Embedded content]

Nobody insults my Alma Mater.

I’ve heard about recent issues at Notre Dame involving sexual assault. Can people give me a clue x 4 on that or other issues at Notre Dame.

Your basic football players are immune to the laws everybody else lives under, coaches and administrators cover up their crimes, slander the victim to keep her from pressing charges and make her so miserable she leaves town…

There’s also the Manti Teo scandal, but that one’s not actually a crime.

184 sattv4u2  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 5:41:15pm

re: #182 prairiefire

Hey, lizards, hope you are well!

I will be in another hour and a half, once the long quiet drive home starts!!

on the upside,, I get to do this all again for another 12 hours tomorrow!!

Yip,,,,,, eeee

185 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 5:42:49pm

re: #179 ProTARDISLiberal

I need a response to this vapid dimwit in the pic below.

[Embedded content]

Nobody insults my Alma Mater.

I’ve heard about recent issues at Notre Dame involving sexual assault. Can people give me a clue x 4 on that or other issues at Notre Dame.

Jesus Christ you’re easily sidetracked.

Pro-tip: Nobody gives a shit about this inconsequential dumbfuckery. The Republicans are on the verge of shutting down the government out of spite and you’re concerned about some random, anonymous internet asshole dissing your college.

186 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 5:44:31pm

School pride is one of the chumpiest phenomena imaginable.

187 SnowdenBaggerVance  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 5:45:06pm

re: #183 sagehen

Manti Te’o was the next Great Hawaiian Hope. Somewhat icksnay on the disucssivay about the (xxx xxx).

But hey, he’s on the Chargers!

188 prairiefire  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 5:47:21pm

re: #165 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Lena Horne said she had a huge crush on Billy Strayhorn. She could not get his attention, he preferred men.

189 Kragar  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 5:49:12pm

re: #186 goddamnedfrank

School pride is one of the chumpiest phenomena imaginable.

Hooray local sports franchise, score another goal/point/run, because I’ve attached my ego to your efforts to cover for my own failings!
/

190 ObserverArt  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 5:53:52pm

re: #145 SnowdenBaggerVance

Happy Shutdown Saturday.

Occupy Washington. The 1% strikes back!!!

See it on Fox.

/

191 Lidane  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 5:54:06pm
192 Kragar  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 5:55:05pm
193 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 5:55:45pm

I want D_F to come in here and again explain how all politics is local.

That shit is precious.

194 Lidane  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 5:56:00pm

As if the GOP’s ransom demands weren’t insane enough:


Again - -what part of “POTUS is done negotiating and the Senate won’t consider anything further” do these assholes not understand?

195 Kragar  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 5:56:49pm

re: #194 Lidane

As if the GOP’s ransom demands weren’t insane enough:

[Embedded content]


Again - -what part of “POTUS is done negotiating and the Senate won’t consider anything further” do these assholes not understand?

The GOP are fucking bastards, every fucking one of them.

196 Stanley Sea  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 5:57:00pm

They are just grandstanding now.

What a shitshow.

197 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 6:02:54pm

re: #193 goddamnedfrank

I believe it was the late Thomas P O’Neil who said, “All politics is local.” That is all I can offer.

198 Kragar  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 6:03:00pm

Anyone who supports the GOP at any level at this point is either ignorant, malicious, or both.

199 Archangelus  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 6:05:40pm

The more I keep reading about GOP assholery such as we’re currently witnessing, the more I wish the Democratic party would just go on the friggin’ offensive and be nothing short of senselessly brutal towards these heartless soulless bastards who are willing to hurt every single one of us if they don’t get their way.
I keep imagining GOP heads exploding should a Dem senator would have the balls to stand before the cameras and flat out say, with regards to the whole debt ceiling situation, “It is our policy not to negotiate with terrorists”… call it as it is, I say…

200 ProTARDISLiberal  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 6:06:37pm

re: #197 PhillyPretzel

I don’t subscribe to that.

Why? Well, I don’t see how things in, say Colorado Springs affect foreign policy.

Politics is a combination of things, including Local. But it is not all of it.

201 Charles Johnson  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 6:08:06pm

re: #194 Lidane

As if the GOP’s ransom demands weren’t insane enough:

[Embedded content]


Again - -what part of “POTUS is done negotiating and the Senate won’t consider anything further” do these assholes not understand?

Wow, that’s worth a post. Their obsessions are out of control.

202 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 6:08:12pm

re: #200 ProTARDISLiberal

That is okay. It is just a quote. I understand.

203 ObserverArt  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 6:10:13pm

re: #198 Kragar

Anyone who supports the GOP at any level at this point is either ignorant, malicious, or both.

Whole lotta hatin’ goin’ on…
I said hate it one time for me,

Nod to Jerry Lee. /

204 SnowdenBaggerVance  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 6:16:47pm

Undeterred, House Republicans pressed ahead with their latest attempt to squeeze a concession from the White House in exchange for letting the government open for business normally on Tuesday.

“I think we have a winning program here,” said Rep. Hal Rogers, R-Ky., chairman of the House Appropriations Committee, after days of discord that pitted Speaker John Boehner, R-Ohio, and his leadership against tea party-backed conservatives.

Another Republican, Rep. Darrell Issa of California, reacted angrily when asked whether he would eventually support a standalone spending bill if needed to prevent a shutdown. “How dare you presume a failure? How dare you? How dare you?” he said.

205 BongCrodny  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 6:19:12pm

The House GOP’s budget bill:

The Homer

206 A Man for all Seasons  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 8:09:17pm

re: #202 PhillyPretzel

That is okay. It is just a quote. I understand.

Hi Philly! hope today finds you well.. Ole Tip knew the World didn’t he?
All politics sre local..( Ask Texas School board members )
All Politics are State ( Anybody care for a bloody civil war )
All Politics are National ( Millions stand in Line to elect Obama 2007 )
All Politics are Global ( Reagan elected..Iran shits pants and releases Hostages after 444 days )
All politics are…errr.. Impactful to Humans? powerful? have unforseen consequences? I dunno..
Everybody better Vote in 2014 cause All politics are…

207 piratedan  Sat, Sep 28, 2013 10:07:40pm

re: #190 ObserverArt

Occupy Washington. The 1% strikes back!!!

See it on Fox.

/

it would be nice to get them all gathered in one place, yes…..


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