Wall Street Is Underestimating How Dangerous Republicans Are For The World’s Economy

They believe it’s a concession to NOT destroy the economy
Politics • Views: 27,509

This post originally appeared at NationalMemo.com.

When Standard & Poor’s downgraded America’s credit rating from AAA to AA+ after 2011’s debt limit crisis, President Obama was apoplectic.

“Our problems are eminently solvable, and we know what we have to do to solve them. With respect to debt, our problem is not confidence in our credit,” he said. “The markets continue to reaffirm our credit as among the world’s safest. Our challenge is the need to tackle our deficits over the long term.”

Since then, America has made incredible progress in tackling its short-term deficit but the issues that caused the initial downgrade have only gotten worse. The problem has never been America’s finances, but rather the emergence of radical politicians willing to gamble with America’s full faith and credit, as S&P noted in a statement this week that reaffirmed their 2011 ruling.

“The current impasse over the continuing resolution and the debt ceiling creates an atmosphere of uncertainty that could affect confidence, investment, and hiring in the U.S.,” the S&P research team explained.

“This sort of political brinksmanship is the dominant reason the rating is no longer ‘AAA,’” they added. But the agency also noted that it wasn’t considering another downgrade.

Within hours of S&P’s new guidance, Tea Party congressman Rep. Steve King (R-IA) said that he didn’t believe it was even possible for the United States to default on its debt. He called such talk “false demagoguery,” which was his major at Glenn Beck University.

Not raising the debt limit would be a crisis “if we’re lucky, a historic calamity if we’re not,” says The Atlantic’s Matthew O’Brien. Even threatening to do it hurts the economy.

Former Obama speechwriter Jon Favreau wrote in The Daily Beast about the speech he was preparing for the president to give in the case of an actual default in 2011. He described the scenario America faced at the time like this:

Without enough cash on hand, the government would be forced to delay indefinitely Social Security checks, the ones our grandparents depend on to put food in their mouths and a roof over their heads. Veterans who served this country would stop receiving the benefits they earned, and the men and women in uniform risking their lives for us wouldn’t get paychecks.

Every company in America that does business with the federal government, of which there are hundreds of thousands, would not see their contracts paid on schedule, an effect that would ripple down to their employees and their families. With each passing day, making our debt payments to businesses and governments around the world would become more and more difficult. When the world stopped seeing the United States as a safe and reliable place to invest, the cost of borrowing money would skyrocket for every single American—whether it’s a home mortgage or a personal credit card. And those high borrowing costs, coupled with billions in delayed income for seniors, soldiers, small-business owners, and their employees, almost surely would send our economy and the world’s into a crisis even deeper and more dramatic than the Great Recession of 2009.

Republicans have argued that the debt limit has always been negotiable and that President Obama himself voted against raising it as a senator. But that ignores actual history, including the fact that Republican leaders voted to raise the debt limit more than a dozen times as George W. Bush turned a record surplus into a record deficit.

“Raising the debt limit always been unpopular, and tough to explain to voters,” Slate’s Dave Weigel recently wrote. “A few times, Democrats balked at raising it for a few days to make a point, then caved in. Many more times, they’ve just voted for the damn thing. John Boehner’s Republicans have only ever agreed to raise the debt limit if they won major policy concessions from the president. Both parties don’t do it. One party does it.”

Rep. Paul Ryan (R-WI) said last week that the House GOP plans to use the debt limit again to demand concessions.

“I think it will fold into the debt ceiling fight. I think that’s inevitable, and preferable in my opinion,” he said. “I like combining all of our leverage, which is sequester and the debt limit.”

The only way raising the debt limit is a concession is if Republicans want to crash the economy. The only way it’s leverage is if they are willing to crash the economy.

Even before Senator Ted Cruz (R-TX) was leading the Suicide Caucus in Congress, Republicans were willing to threaten default. Given the weakness of Speaker John Boehner (R-OH) and the willingness of a unified Tea Party faction to prevent anything that hints at compromise from coming to the floor for a vote, this may be a threat they’re now willing to back up.

Standard & Poor’s inflated ratings of subprime mortgages were a major cause of the financial crisis. Today it seems they’re underestimating just how irrational the Tea Party faction that’s leading the Republican Party is. America’s right has gerrymandered itself a congressional majority and a media that tells them they’re always winning, no matter what the polls say.

America is on the verge of another financial crisis and the fact that the financial world doesn’t see it coming makes it all the more dangerous.

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133 comments
1 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 1:49:31pm

The Tea Party will not be happy until the US becomes a third world country and the garment industry comes back from Bangladesh.

2 Kragar  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 1:50:46pm

re: #1 Vicious Babushka

The Tea Party will not be happy until the US becomes a third world country and the garment industry comes back from Bangladesh.

That’s not a bug, its a feature.

3 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 1:51:07pm
5 klys  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 1:51:29pm

re: #1 Vicious Babushka

The Tea Party will not be happy until the US becomes a third world country and the garment industry comes back from Bangladesh.

Well really, that makes as much sense as any other jobs plan they’ve proposed.

6 Kragar  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 1:51:57pm

re: #3 Vicious Babushka

[Embedded content]

Heard it might have been a homeless guy whose camp stove blew.

7 GeneJockey  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 1:52:50pm

re: #1 Vicious Babushka

The Tea Party will not be happy until the US becomes a third world country and the garment industry comes back from Bangladesh.

You know, they have absolutely no conception that this is the direction their pushing us in. They have complete, unshakeable belief in their own bullshit.

8 celticdragon  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 1:54:02pm

And this sort of manichean absolutism is what scares me to death. These people do not want a bargain or deal. They do not want compromise and will accept none on any terms.

They want the complete usurpation of this President and every elected Democrat in every state, city and town. They will not stop, and they will not recognize any previous accepted norm of democratic governance. They will not accept the legitimacy of any vote that goes against them.

I have seen this week that more and more people are wondering if this comes to a new shooting civil war. In a way, we are playing out a cold civil war now. I have no idea if this ends in bloodshed, but there is no guarantee that America as we know will survive the century.

Bonus editorial at Financial Times. requires registration.

9 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 1:54:41pm

re: #7 GeneJockey

You know, they have absolutely no conception that this is the direction their pushing us in. They have complete, unshakeable belief in their own bullshit.

TEH WALTONS ARE TEH TRUE AMERICANS!!!1 TEHY HAV CREEYATED MILLIONS UV JRRBZ!!!11 HOW MENY JRRBZ HAS U CREEYATED?? HOW MANY U LIBTARD? NOT EVEN ONE!!!1111

A wingnut actually said this to me on Teh Twitters.

10 GeneJockey  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 1:55:44pm

re: #4 Kragar

Cruz: GOP Already Compromised by Demanding to Defund, Not Repeal Obamacare

I realize that Reagan is their God, but as has often been said, it’s Zombie Reagan, not the real one. The REAL Reagan laid out impossible demands at the beginning of every negotiation, but then he compromised most of it away till he arrived the core of what he was willing to accept. These Teabagger assholes think you’re supposed to lay out impossible demands and STICK TO THEM.

11 Charles Johnson  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 1:55:50pm

re: #8 celticdragon

As with a lot of newspaper sites, you can get around the Financial Times paywall by Googling the title of the article, and clicking through from Google:

google.com

12 A Mom Anon  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 1:56:14pm

re: #3 Vicious Babushka

Wait, what? No, that has to be an error of some kind. Please tell me it is…

13 celticdragon  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 1:56:42pm

re: #9 Vicious Babushka

TEH WALTONS ARE TEH TRUE AMERICANS!!!1 TEHY HAV CREEYATED MILLIONS UV JRRBZ!!!11 HOW MENY JRRBZ HAS U CREEYATED?? HOW MANY U LIBTARD? NOT EVEN ONE!!!1111

A wingnut actually said this to me on Teh Twitters.

Jesus. I bet he went on to talk about Walker:Texas Ranger and what he would have done in Benghazi…

14 calochortus  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 1:57:06pm

re: #8 celticdragon

I keep seeing conservatives asking “But what good is my vote if I don’t get my way?” Democracy means rule of the majority, not rule of what you and your friends want.

15 Kragar  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 1:57:46pm

re: #10 GeneJockey

I realize that Reagan is their God, but as has often been said, it’s Zombie Reagan, not the real one. The REAL Reagan laid out impossible demands at the beginning of every negotiation, but then he compromised most of it away till he arrived the core of what he was willing to accept. These Teabagger asshole think you’re supposed to lay out impossible demands and STICK TO THEM.

Well, I want to bury Ted up to his nose in horseshit. My compromise is to only bury him up to his neck in horseshit.

Compromise.
///

16 Decatur Deb  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 1:57:46pm

re: #11 Charles Johnson

As with a lot of newspaper sites, you can get around the Financial Times paywall by Googling the title of the article, and clicking through from Google:

google.com

If I do that, can i call myself a ‘hacker’.

17 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 1:58:16pm

Oh I have been so pwn3d!

18 Kragar  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 1:58:32pm

re: #16 Decatur Deb

If I do that, can i call myself a ‘hacker’.

Depends. Do you cough a lot when you do it?

19 Charles Johnson  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 1:58:54pm

Here’s that link again:

news.google.com

20 celticdragon  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 1:59:02pm

re: #11 Charles Johnson

As with a lot of newspaper sites, you can get around the Financial Times paywall by Googling the title of the article, and clicking through from Google:

google.com

Google “America flirts with self destruction”

These are not exactly unwashed hippy protestors at FT…

21 Charles Johnson  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 1:59:46pm

Wow, so it looks like Google has now made it very difficult to link to a search results page. If you copy and paste the URL of the page you just go to the homepage.

22 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 2:00:05pm

They have theirs and think they can ride out anything better than the rest of the world. And they think a collapse will strengthen their position. Above and beyond those that will think it’s God’s will for America to be destroyed before it can arise again in a more devout, purer, (and whiter) form.

23 The Ghost of a Flea  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 2:00:30pm

re: #14 calochortus

I keep seeing conservatives asking “But what good is my vote if I don’t get my way?” Democracy means rule of the majority, not rule of what you and your friends want.

They’re also struggling with the idea of “republic” and “constitution” because when they do have the majority, they seem to think there are basic rights they can remove from people.

24 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 2:01:13pm

And here’s from a member of the party that “Fought to end slavery”

25 Charles Johnson  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 2:01:32pm

WTF is going on in Washington DC?

26 iossarian  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 2:01:57pm

re: #16 Decatur Deb

If I do that, can i call myself a ‘hacker’.

There are easier ways to be a hacker. If you use more than two chopsticks at once I think you qualify, per Richard Stallman.

27 Kragar  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 2:02:02pm
28 calochortus  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 2:02:30pm

re: #20 celticdragon

Google “America flirts with self destruction”

These are not exactly unwashed hippy protestors at FT…

I don’t know. It is a pink paper after all. Sounds like hippies to me.

29 celticdragon  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 2:02:47pm

re: #25 Charles Johnson

May have been someone with a camp cookstove from what I have heard.

30 GeneJockey  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 2:02:48pm

re: #14 calochortus

I keep seeing conservatives asking “But what good is my vote if I don’t get my way?” Democracy means rule of the majority, not rule of what you and your friends want.

WHY DO THE CITIES GET TO DOMINATE EVERYTHING?!?! DOESN’T MY VOICE COUNT?!?!

They are really uncomfortable with ‘one man, one vote’, because at heart, they don’t really believe in representative democracy any more than they believe in liberty.

They believe liberty means THEY get to do what THEY want to do, and they get to prevent others from doing anything different. They believe democracy means their vote is the one that matters, and anyone who doesn’t agree with them probably shouldn’t be allowed to vote.

31 Charles Johnson  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 2:03:18pm
32 klys  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 2:03:26pm

Normally I say to hell with trying to time the market, but I won’t lie: we’re sitting on some money to be invested until I see what happens with the debt limit.

33 calochortus  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 2:03:54pm

re: #30 GeneJockey

Pretty much.

34 GeneJockey  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 2:04:52pm

re: #31 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

I find that picture both alluring, and disturbing, and I’m disturbed that I find it alluring.

35 celticdragon  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 2:05:46pm

re: #30 GeneJockey

WHY DO THE CITIES GET TO DOMINATE EVERYTHING?!?! DOESN’T MY VOICE COUNT?!?!

They are really uncomfortable with ‘one man, one vote’, because at heart, they don’t really believe in representative democracy any more than they believe in liberty.

They believe liberty means THEY get to do what THEY want to do, and they get to prevent others from doing anything different. They believe democracy means their vote is the one that matters, and anyone who doesn’t agree with them probably shouldn’t be allowed to vote.

Aaaand that is why this last year you had Eric son of Eric and his merry crew start gabbing about “You should skin in the game and pay income taxes!!” or “You should be a property owner!” in order to have the right to vote.

In other words, they wanted us to go back to ancient Sparta and have the handful of citizens and teeming hordes of helots…

36 dog philosopher  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 2:05:59pm

re: #1 Vicious Babushka

The Tea Party will not be happy until the US becomes a third world country and the garment industry comes back from Bangladesh.

it seems to me like that is the real plan, unfortunately

when americans complain that their salaries are not keeping pace with inflation, on wall st this is considered a problem called ‘wage pressures’ and the fed gets busy trying to make the bad thing go away

37 wrenchwench  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 2:06:14pm

re: #34 GeneJockey

I find that picture both alluring, and disturbing, and I’m disturbed that I find it alluring.

The S.S. Minnow and… is it Ginger or Mary Ann?

38 GOPHostage#25698724  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 2:07:30pm

re: #31 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Gave me a flashback
Sea Hunt with Lloyd Bridges.

39 GeneJockey  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 2:07:37pm

re: #37 wrenchwench

The S.S. Minnow and… is it Ginger or Mary Ann?

Mary Ann - Ginger had bigger hips…..

40 Kragar  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 2:08:36pm

re: #39 GeneJockey

Mary Ann - Ginger had bigger hips…..

Dawn Wells, the only cast member smart enough to make sure she got royalties as part of her contract.

41 calochortus  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 2:09:35pm

re: #35 celticdragon

Aaaand that is why this last year you had Eric son of Eric and his merry crew start gabbing about “You should skin in the game and pay income taxes!!” or “You should be a property owner!” in order to have the right to vote.

In other words, they wanted us to go back to ancient Sparta and have the handful of citizens and teeming hordes of helots…

Because Sparta was such a bastion of morality and productivity.

42 Kragar  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 2:11:26pm

re: #41 calochortus

Because Sparta was such a bastion of morality and productivity.

The irony being Sparta wasn’t exactly a shining example of heterosexuality.

43 GeneJockey  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 2:11:33pm

re: #40 Kragar

Dawn Wells, the only cast member smart enough to make sure she got royalties as part of her contract.

I didn’t realize it until I watched it a few times, years later in syndication, that the first season instead of “the professor AND mary ANN”, the lyrics of the opening theme were “and the rest”.

TWO PEOPLE, and they were reduced to “and the rest.”

44 klys  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 2:12:40pm

re: #43 GeneJockey

I didn’t realize it until I watched it a few times, years later in syndication, that the first season instead of “the professor AND mary ANN”, the lyrics of the opening theme were “and the rest”.

TWO PEOPLE, and they were reduced to “and the rest.”

I believe it’s available for free streaming with Amazon Prime.

45 Kragar  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 2:12:40pm

re: #43 GeneJockey

I didn’t realize it until I watched it a few times, years later in syndication, that the first season instead of “the professor AND mary ANN”, the lyrics of the opening theme were “and the rest”.

TWO PEOPLE, and they were reduced to “and the rest.”

Did you realize the whole show was about the 7 deadly sins?

46 GeneJockey  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 2:14:32pm

re: #35 celticdragon

Aaaand that is why this last year you had Eric son of Eric and his merry crew start gabbing about “You should skin in the game and pay income taxes!!” or “You should be a property owner!” in order to have the right to vote.

In other words, they wanted us to go back to ancient Sparta and have the handful of citizens and teeming hordes of helots…

Yep, saw those, too. Generally on threads where some wingnut posted the ‘county by county map’ from 2000, or 2008 or 2012, because 5 people in Bumfuck County Nevada count more than 8 million in Manhattan, because there’s more acreage.

47 GOPHostage#25698724  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 2:15:18pm

re: #43 GeneJockey

NCIS lost it’s best (IMO) character. Every time a script had a bigger role for her Mark Harmon would bitch for more lines. So she chose to move on. That’s the same crap Will Shatner pulled that so damaged the show and careers of fellow cast members.

48 [deleted]  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 2:16:02pm
49 calochortus  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 2:16:40pm

re: #42 Kragar

The irony being Sparta wasn’t exactly a shining example of heterosexuality.

Or actual productivity. Everyone’s life was funneled into supporting the military, which may or may not be necessary but isn’t particularly productive.

Every so often wingnuts bring up the glory that was Sparta until someone clues them in to a.) the moral difficulties and b.) their fairly short run as a successful society.

50 b_sharp  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 2:17:54pm

re: #45 Kragar

Did you realize the whole show was about the 7 deadly sins?

No!

51 dog philosopher  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 2:20:21pm

re: #49 calochortus

Or actual productivity. Everyone’s life was funneled into supporting the military, which may or may not be necessary but isn’t particularly productive.

Every so often wingnuts bring up the glory that was Sparta until someone clues them in to a.) the moral difficulties and b.) their fairly short run as a successful society.

also: helots

the entire population of a neighboring province existed in a state of semi-slavery providing food for sparta. every year the spartans would declare a kind of ceremonial war on them so that spartan males could complete their coming-of-age ceremony by killing a helot

eventually other greek states subverted this arrangement by convincing the helots to revolt, which was carried out successfully

52 Kragar  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 2:20:53pm

re: #50 b_sharp

No!

Yup, from the very beginning, that was the show creators intention.

Skipper - Rage
Gilligan - Gluttony
Mr Howell - Greed
Mrs. Howell - Sloth
Professor - Pride
Ginger - Lust
Mary Ann - Envy

53 GeneJockey  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 2:20:53pm

re: #44 klys

I believe it’s available for free streaming with Amazon Prime.

One thing I’ve found, going back to watch TV shows I watched in their original runs when I was a kid, is that they invariably disappoint. I always remember them as funnier and better quality than they turn out to be.

Worst disappointment - Dark Shadows. Oh, my god. I was 11-14 when it was on originally, and I LOVED IT!!!! Last year, I watched a couple weeks worth on Netflix, and in the course of 2 1/2 hours of episodes, there were maybe 2 or 3 plot points advanced, and a whole lot of meaningful glances and reaction shots. And everything looks SO FUCKING CHEESY!!!

My favorite moment from Dark Shadows,though, I remember from watching back in the day. There was a fly buzzing around the set, getting in the shots, etc. At one point, Barnabas took a large step towards Julia Hoffman, while trying to unobtrusively catch the fly. It was hilarious!

54 calochortus  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 2:21:35pm

re: #51 dog philosopher

also: helots

the entire population of a neighboring province existed in a state of semi-slavery providing food for sparta. every year the spartans would declare a kind of ceremonial war on them so that spartan males could complete their coming-of-age ceremony by killing a helot

eventually other greek states subverted this arrangement by convincing the helots to revolt, which was carried out successfully

Yes, but that is apparently less relevant to many conservatives than institutionalized pederasty and ultimate failure.

55 dog philosopher  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 2:24:16pm

re: #54 calochortus

Yes, but that is apparently less relevant to many conservatives than institutionalized pederasty and ultimate failure.

they’re not bothered by the fact that the spartan state conformed highly to the republican conception of ‘socialized’ since the spartan state was all controlling and an individual citizen was considered subservient to it?

56 GeneJockey  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 2:24:22pm

re: #45 Kragar

Did you realize the whole show was about the 7 deadly sins?

“Those seven deadly virtues, those ghastly little traps,
“Oh, no my liege, they were not meant for me!
“Those seven deadly virtues were made for other chaps,
“Who love a life of failure and ennui!”

57 Snarknado!  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 2:24:59pm

re: #53 GeneJockey

One thing I’ve found, going back to watch TV shows I watched in their original runs when I was a kid, is that they invariably disappoint. I always remember them as funnier and better quality than they turn out to be.

Worst disappointment - Dark Shadows. Oh, my god. I was 11-14 when it was on originally, and I LOVED IT!!!! Last year, I watched a couple weeks worth on Netflix, and in the course of 2 1/2 hours of episodes, there were maybe 2 or 3 plot points advanced, and a whole lot of meaningful glances and reaction shots. And everything looks SO FUCKING CHEESY!!!

My favorite moment from Dark Shadows,though, I remember from watching back in the day. There was a fly buzzing around the set, getting in the shots, etc. At one point, Barnabas took a large step towards Julia Hoffman, while trying to unobtrusively catch the fly. It was hilarious!

I’ve found that to be the case with comedies, with DS not so much — at least some of the arcs still appeal. To me, at least.

58 Charles Johnson  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 2:25:11pm

Marvel’s Thor: The Dark World - Featurette 2

Youtube Video

59 Dr. Matt  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 2:25:33pm

hahaha. The Prez is trolling John Boy:

60 calochortus  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 2:26:09pm

re: #55 dog philosopher

they’re not bothered by the fact that the spartan state conformed highly to the republican conception of ‘socialized’ since the spartan state was all controlling and an individual citizen was considered subservient to it?

They’re a trifle confused about it all.

61 GeneJockey  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 2:26:11pm

re: #54 calochortus

Yes, but that is apparently less relevant to many conservatives than institutionalized pederasty and ultimate failure.

re: #55 dog philosopher

they’re not bothered by the fact that the spartan state conformed highly to the republican conception of ‘socialized’ since the spartan state was all controlling and an individual citizen was considered subservient to it?

No, because it’s a MILITARISTIC Socialism.

62 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 2:26:28pm

re: #48 EPR-radar

Cruz is lucky I’m not his counter party in negotiations.

My response as POTUS would be that I have already greatly compromised by not hanging the first tea party representatives I can find from the first available trees.

“Who is this Korbin Dallas guy they’re sending in to negotiate? Never heard of him.”
///

63 GeneJockey  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 2:26:52pm

re: #60 calochortus

They’re a trifle confused about it all.

It’s all about the buttsecks with those folks.

64 Kragar  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 2:26:56pm

Columbo still rocks.

“One more thing…”

65 calochortus  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 2:28:24pm

OT, but why does Google want to annoy me by getting rid of the little apps bar on gmail? I could go to my calendar with a single convenient click. Now they want me to click on an icon and then on my calendar. What are they getting out of it?

66 GeneJockey  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 2:30:56pm

re: #64 Kragar

Columbo still rocks.

“One more thing…”

But my favorite Peter Falk role is still Sam Diamond from ‘Murder By Death’.

67 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 2:31:48pm

re: #53 GeneJockey

One thing I’ve found, going back to watch TV shows I watched in their original runs when I was a kid, is that they invariably disappoint. I always remember them as funnier and better quality than they turn out to be.

Worst disappointment - Dark Shadows. Oh, my god. I was 11-14 when it was on originally, and I LOVED IT!!!! Last year, I watched a couple weeks worth on Netflix, and in the course of 2 1/2 hours of episodes, there were maybe 2 or 3 plot points advanced, and a whole lot of meaningful glances and reaction shots. And everything looks SO FUCKING CHEESY!!!

My favorite moment from Dark Shadows,though, I remember from watching back in the day. There was a fly buzzing around the set, getting in the shots, etc. At one point, Barnabas took a large step towards Julia Hoffman, while trying to unobtrusively catch the fly. It was hilarious!

I mostly agree about TV from youth I can still watch Star Trek & Hogan’s Heroes without grimacing too much.

Hogan’s remains an amazing bit of humor and satire and knowing more about the actor’s pasts gives it even more bite. Pity about Crane but that never impacted my enjoyment of the show.

68 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 2:33:53pm

re: #65 calochortus

OT, but why does Google want to annoy me by getting rid of the little apps bar on gmail? I could go to my calendar with a single convenient click. Now they want me to click on an icon and then on my calendar. What are they getting out of it?

They’ve been dumbing down the interface all year. I think it’s supposed to make training easier for big biz but I find it appalling. I finally shifted to Thunderbird as a front end to gmail as a result.

69 Kragar  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 2:33:57pm

re: #66 GeneJockey

But my favorite Peter Falk role is still Sam Diamond from ‘Murder By Death’.

For me, it has to be “The In-Laws”

“Serpentine, Shelly. Serpentine! “

70 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 2:34:27pm

More on that self-immolation.

washingtonpost.com

BTW, if the GOPers think anyone wants to go back to the 2008 economy when we’re just beginning to feel better about the current rebound, they have miscalculated by a light year.

72 sagehen  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 2:35:10pm

re: #32 klys

Normally I say to hell with trying to time the market, but I won’t lie: we’re sitting on some money to be invested until I see what happens with the debt limit.

My advice? Put half of it into £ (if the symbol didn’t come up right… pounds sterling).

If there’s a Lloyd’s or Barclay’s branch near you, they can take care of you. They don’t even charge commission on the currency conversion.

73 EPR-radar  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 2:37:30pm

If there is another credit downgrade of the US, the ratings agencies should do their jobs and place the blame on the GOP as an objective fact, rather than reporting it as opposing sides locked in intractable disagreement or some such MBF mumbo jumbo.

74 calochortus  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 2:38:32pm

re: #68 William Barnett-Lewis

They’ve been dumbing down the interface all year. I think it’s supposed to make training easier for big biz but I find it appalling. I finally shifted to Thunderbird as a front end to gmail as a result.

But I’m truly a Luddite and totally tech un-savvy and it makes it harder for me. My best guess is they want to have the bright logos show-but being literate, I’m happier reading the names of apps.

75 Kragar  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 2:39:55pm

re: #74 calochortus

But I’m truly a Luddite and totally tech un-savvy and it makes it harder for me. My best guess is they want to have the bright logos show-but being literate, I’m happier reading the names of apps.

Techie by career, Luddite by choice. I know enough about tech in my day to day work to want as little to do with it as possible in my off hours.

76 GeneJockey  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 2:41:28pm

re: #75 Kragar

Techie by career, Luddite by choice. I know enough about tech in my day to day work to want as little to do with it as possible in my off hours.

The cobbler’s children have no shoes; the chef eats cheap takeout, etc. Interestingly, working on cancer, and before that infectious disease, nobody wants me to bring work home….

77 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 2:42:14pm

I’m sorry, but how is this being “blessed”? Not so much for the poor calf. Maybe for the owner’s pocketbook.

Moo Times Two: Calf Born With Two Heads
Calf born with rare condition “polycephaly,” but healthy

nbcmiami.com

78 Kragar  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 2:42:53pm

re: #76 GeneJockey

All I want is an honest week’s pay for an honest day’s work.

79 EPR-radar  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 2:44:00pm

re: #78 Kragar

All I want is an honest week’s pay for an honest day’s work.

You need to be a CEO to get that.

80 calochortus  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 2:45:44pm

re: #77 Justanotherhuman

I’m sorry, but how is this being “blessed”? Not so much for the poor calf. Maybe for the owner’s pocketbook.

Moo Times Two: Calf Born With Two Heads
Calf born with rare condition “polycephaly,” but healthy

nbcmiami.com

Well, the owner didn’t say the calf was blessed…

81 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 2:45:47pm

re: #46 GeneJockey

Yep, saw those, too. Generally on threads where some wingnut posted the ‘county by county map’ from 2000, or 2008 or 2012, because 5 people in Bumfuck County Nevada count more than 8 million in Manhattan, because there’s more acreage.

I see that on Teh Twitters all the time, where they post this stupid, lame fake meme comparing the 2012 election results with the 2004 election results, only they claim the 2004 election map is the “FBI gun statistics map”

Yeah and wingnuts argue with me after I point out that the map is from the election and there is no county-by-county breakdown of “gun crime.”

82 Kragar  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 2:49:15pm

Pat Buchanan is talking about the shutdown, DERP ensues.

“In the showdown over the shutdown of the U.S. government, the Obamaites tipped their hand yesterday as what their strategy is.

Taking a page out of Saul Alinsky’s “Rules for Radicals,” the plan is to maximize the people’s pain - to maximize the political damage to the enemy, the Republican Party.

What else explains it?”

Its from WND, don’t want to link it.

83 No Country For Old Haters  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 2:50:14pm

re: #24 Vicious Babushka

84 wrenchwench  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 2:50:40pm

re: #82 Kragar

Pat Buchanan is talking about the shutdown, DERP ensues.

Its from WND, don’t link it.

Unlike Pat B., I have read Alinsky’s books. He never wanted to ‘maximize the people’s pain’.

86 GeneJockey  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 2:50:45pm

re: #82 Kragar

Pat Buchanan is talking about the shutdown, DERP ensues.

Its from WND, don’t link it.

Oh, Jesus. Saul Alinsky. I think the only people who read Alinsky thes days are wingnuts.

87 The Mountain That Blogs  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 2:50:57pm

re: #81 Vicious Babushka

There’s some element of this too.

88 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 2:52:16pm

Now this fake outrageous outrage is a virus eating up Teh Twitters

89 Sionainn  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 2:53:47pm

re: #88 Vicious Babushka

Now this fake outrageous outrage is a virus eating up Teh Twitters

[Embedded content]

Can the men with the straightjackets just come and pick him up and haul him away?

90 CuriousLurker  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 2:54:24pm

Damn, I just happened to pass by the NY Daily News and saw the man on fire thing. WT-effing-F?

91 Kragar  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 2:54:38pm

Latest on the DC fire.

Witnesses are saying they saw the guy douse himself with fuel.

Fucking hell.

92 Lidane  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 2:55:49pm

re: #88 Vicious Babushka

93 dog philosopher  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 2:56:13pm

i have an informational question that i wanted to put to the community here, so that i can be sure if i have my facts straight:

is it true that a health insurance provider can offer a plan even if it is not listed on the ACA health insurance exchange?

it was my understanding that the exchange was a marketplace where people who were not otherwise covered could find inexpensive plans in one place, that met certain criteria laid out by ACA regulations

however, francis posted this article that seems to me to assume that if a plan is not listed on the exchange that it is no longer available:

dailycaller.com

94 Dr Lizardo  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 2:57:20pm

I would agree that Wall Street is fatally underestimating the Tea Party faction.

Wall Street types tend to be a fairly logical bunch. They live in a world of numbers and stats and economic forecasts and prognostications. They deal with other reasonably-minded individuals throughout the world every day. They have colleagues in Frankfurt, London, Tokyo, Beijing and other places great and small throughout the world.

It is exceedingly rare for Wall Streeters to encounter a situation in the First World where they find themselves confronted with irrational political leaders; such is the domain of places such as Uganda under Idi Amin or The Gambia under its current leader, President Sheikh Yahya Jammeh.

Now Wall Street finds itself facing a highly irrational group of ideological extremists who also happen to have a good deal of Evangelical fundamentalist eschatological baggage they’ve brought along with them.

The Wall Streeters don’t run into people like this on a daily basis and as a result they have no frame of reference as to what they’re actually dealing with. These are not mere politicians; oh no……these are self-styled “revolutionaries” , more like Lenin and his Bolsheviks - in terms of their tactics - then they are to your average Brooks Brothers suit-wearing Republican you’d likely encounter at a high-end restaurant in Manhattan.

The Wall Street boys and girls have yet to understand who they’re dealing with in the Tea Party - and by the time they finally comprehend the nature of what they’re facing, it may well be far too late.

95 Lidane  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 2:58:26pm


And Bartlett immediately follows that post by individually tweeting the link to each GOP Rep named on the list. Heh.

96 Kragar  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 2:58:42pm

re: #88 Vicious Babushka

97 Tigger2  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 2:59:14pm

re: #88 Vicious Babushka

Now this fake outrageous outrage is a virus eating up Teh Twitters

[Embedded content]

I see nothing wrong with that since he’s not supposed to be in Gov anyway./
Did the Repugs think the clergy in the military would be exempt from their shutdown.

98 BongCrodny  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 3:01:02pm

re: #69 Kragar

For me, it has to be “The In-Laws”

“Serpentine, Shelly. Serpentine! “

“They have tsetse flies down there the size of eagles.”

99 EPR-radar  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 3:01:27pm

re: #94 Dr Lizardo

I think the term of art for this is ‘political risk’, which is now a first world problem both in the US and in Europe.

100 wrenchwench  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 3:03:14pm

re: #95 Lidane

[Embedded content]


And Bartlett immediately follows that post by individually tweeting the link to each GOP Rep named on the list. Heh.

I hope that my rep, who agrees with all those hardliners, cries because he didn’t make the list.

101 Dr Lizardo  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 3:03:42pm

re: #99 EPR-radar

I think the term of art for this is ‘political risk’, which is now a first world problem both in the US and in Europe.

Yes it is, and I’m quite sure that the Wall Street folks find it highly disconcerting.

Political risk is the province of the Third World in traditional Wall Street thinking. Not the US or the EU. I have little doubt that this is an unexpected - and disturbing - development for them.

102 Kragar  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 3:05:30pm

re: #98 BongCrodny

“They have tsetse flies down there the size of eagles.”

“Those phone calls paid for your college, you little snot nosed…”

103 EPR-radar  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 3:08:38pm

re: #101 Dr Lizardo

Yes it is, and I’m quite sure that the Wall Street folks find it highly disconcerting.

Political risk is the province of the Third World in traditional Wall Street thinking. Not the US or the EU. I have little doubt that this is an unexpected - and disturbing - development for them.

Since the US is pretty much a plutocracy, it is time for the plutocrats who don’t want to tear the system completely down to get off their asses and bring the GOP to heel, if possible.

104 CuriousLurker  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 3:10:09pm
105 Dr Lizardo  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 3:12:05pm

re: #103 EPR-radar

Since the US is pretty much a plutocracy, it is time for the plutocrats who don’t want to tear the system completely down to get off their asses and bring the GOP to heel, if possible.

I totally agree; however, I fear that at this point, it may already be too late to bring the GOP to heel.

106 EPR-radar  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 3:13:47pm

re: #105 Dr Lizardo

I totally agree; however, I fear that at this point, it may already be too late to bring the GOP to heel.

I would at least like to see the attempt (peasants like me always prefer competent rulers to incompetent rulers), even if it doesn’t work near-term.

107 Killgore Trout  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 3:16:29pm

re: #70 Justanotherhuman

More on that self-immolation.

washingtonpost.com

BTW, if the GOPers think anyone wants to go back to the 2008 economy when we’re just beginning to feel better about the current rebound, they have miscalculated by a light year.

From the article…

Didyk said she spoke to one of the men afterward and he told her that the man had doused himself with gasoline as he was facing the Capitol and then lit himself on fire.

The media fear mongering is off the charts lately. Normal people take this stuff with a grain of salt but on mentally ill people it, like the lady from yesterday, it can have a more serious effect. If the fear mongering was just on fringe internet sites it’s not nearly as dangerous as 24 hour hysteria on cable news and TV.

108 Decatur Deb  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 3:17:35pm

re: #93 dog philosopher

i have an informational question that i wanted to put to the community here, so that i can be sure if i have my facts straight:

is it true that a health insurance provider can offer a plan even if it is not listed on the ACA health insurance exchange?

it was my understanding that the exchange was a marketplace where people who were not otherwise covered could find inexpensive plans in one place, that met certain criteria laid out by ACA regulations

however, francis posted this article that seems to me to assume that if a plan is not listed on the exchange that it is no longer available:

dailycaller.com

Yes, a company not in the exchange (marketplace) can offer anything the state insurance officials have always permitted. They might find it hard to compete with the Qualified Health Plans in the exchange, however. (Might even be a policy offered by their own company.)

109 Dr Lizardo  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 3:17:51pm

re: #106 EPR-radar

I would at least like to see the attempt (peasants like me always prefer competent rulers to incompetent rulers), even if it doesn’t work near-term.

The problem is that the GOP leadership is scared shitless of the Tea Party, and the Tea Partyers themselves actually want to crash the economy.

Yes, an attempt should be made, I agree, but given that the GOP leadership is too frightened to actually do anything, and that the faction that’s frightening them looks forward with great glee to bringing about a financial apocalypse, it’s kind of hard to see a positive outcome from such an attempt.

110 Killgore Trout  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 3:17:59pm

re: #94 Dr Lizardo

I’m pretty sure Warren Buffet and George Soros know what they’re doing.

111 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 3:18:35pm

re: #107 Killgore Trout

What ‘fearmongering’ are you referring to, Killgore? That a default could have catastrophic economic consequences?

112 EPR-radar  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 3:20:42pm

re: #110 Killgore Trout

I’m pretty sure Warren Buffet and George Soros know what they’re doing.

I need to see some action, rather than just assume good faith (or even basic competence) on the part of the masters of the universe.

Many of these fat cats are hip deep in the creation of this Frankenstein’s monster, and need to start cleaning up their own mess.

113 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 3:22:45pm

re: #112 EPR-radar

It’s the people who are mega-wealthy and come from mega-wealthy stock that worry me most. The people who grew up in the privilege bubble. You grow up sheltered by enough money, you can be a completely non-malicious person and still capable of supporting horrifically regressive policies.

114 Killgore Trout  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 3:25:50pm

re: #112 EPR-radar

I need to see some action, rather than just assume good faith (or even basic competence) on the part of the masters of the universe.

Many of these fat cats are hip deep in the creation of this Frankenstein’s monster, and need to start cleaning up their own mess.

I’m not too worried about it. If the stock market crashes then we’ll know the threat is real, until then it just looks like partisan hype and sensationalism from the media. If things go too far the institutional investors will be among the first to know.

115 The Ghost of a Flea  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 3:26:47pm

re: #113 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

It’s the people who are mega-wealthy and come from mega-wealthy stock that worry me most. The people who grew up in the privilege bubble. You grow up sheltered by enough money, you can be a completely non-malicious person and still capable of supporting horrifically regressive policies.

There’s also the March of Folly point where power insulates you from criticism and you end up doing something piss-stupid.

116 Dr Lizardo  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 3:28:27pm

re: #114 Killgore Trout

I’m not too worried about it. If the stick market crashes then we’ll know the threat is real, until then it just looks like partisan hype and sensationalism from the media. If things go too far the institutional investors will be among the first to know.

And hopefully, the institutional investors will be the first to say, “Hey you guys up on Capitol Hill, quit screwing around.”

117 Decatur Deb  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 3:28:45pm

re: #115 The Ghost of a Flea

The also the March of Folly point where power insulates you from criticism and you end up doing something piss-stupid.

That’s what fools are for.

press.uchicago.edu

118 GeneJockey  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 3:28:49pm

re: #114 Killgore Trout

I’m not too worried about it. If the stock market crashes then we’ll know the threat is real, until then it just looks like partisan hype and sensationalism from the media. If things go too far the institutional investors will be among the first to know.

You know, I’d have a hell of a lot more confidence if I felt like the folks who flew the economy into the ground in an orgy of greed and denial weren’t still in charge of Wall Street.

119 Decatur Deb  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 3:30:16pm

re: #118 GeneJockey

You know, I’d have a hell of a lot more confidence if I felt like the folks who flew the economy into the ground in an orgy of greed and denial weren’t still in charge of Wall Street.

“Never change anchors in mid-stream.”

120 EPR-radar  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 3:31:46pm

re: #113 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

It’s the people who are mega-wealthy and come from mega-wealthy stock that worry me most. The people who grew up in the privilege bubble. You grow up sheltered by enough money, you can be a completely non-malicious person and still capable of supporting horrifically regressive policies.

It seems that a dangerously large fraction of these people are just stupid. We can have a plutocracy in the US, with sick levels of wealth concentration, provided the system works well enough for a large enough fraction of the population.

Too many oligarchs are forgetting that the system has to basically work. Any real attempt to return to the gilded age will spark a revolution in the US that would rank right up there with the French and Russian revolutions in terms of horror and destruction.

121 Jolo5309  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 3:35:02pm

re: #120 EPR-radar

It seems that a dangerously large fraction of these people are just stupid. .

That is their hope

122 GeneJockey  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 3:36:23pm

re: #120 EPR-radar

It seems that a dangerously large fraction of these people are just stupid. We can have a plutocracy in the US, with sick levels of wealth concentration, provided the system works well enough for a large enough fraction of the population.

Too many oligarchs are forgetting that the system has to basically work. Any real attempt to return to the gilded age will spark a revolution in the US that would rank right up there with the French and Russian revolutions in terms of horror and destruction.

This time, it will be DIFFERENT!

123 EPR-radar  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 3:37:10pm

re: #121 Jolo5309

That is their hope

To be clear, my suspicion is that many of the masters of the universe are too stupid to realize that the lessons of history still apply to them. They need to make this system work, or at least refrain from sabotaging it so severely, if they want to keep their heads.

124 Rev_Arthur_Belling  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 3:39:19pm

re: #114 Killgore Trout

If the stock market crashes then we’ll know the threat is real, until then it just looks like partisan hype and sensationalism from the media. If things go too far the institutional investors will be among the first to know.

I first read that as the “stick market,” and it actually made a lot of sense. It’s Friday.

125 GeneJockey  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 3:39:54pm

re: #123 EPR-radar

To be clear, my suspicion is that many of the masters of the universe are too stupid to realize that the lessons of history still apply to them. They need to make this system work, or at least refrain from sabotaging it so severely, if they want to keep their heads.

One problem is that they are all Believers in the religion of the Free Market, that great WEALTH indicates great WORTH, and great wisdom, besides. This is the hubris that triggered the mortgage bubble, and that allows them to think they can ride this tiger they’ve created.

126 EPR-radar  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 3:43:49pm

re: #125 GeneJockey

One problem is that they are all Believers in the religion of the Free Market, that great WEALTH indicates great WORTH, and great wisdom, besides. This is the hubris that triggered the mortgage bubble, and that allows them to think they can ride this tiger they’ve created.

The biggest failure of the Obama administration so far was no real consequences for Wall Street. That one is really going to bite us all in the ass.

127 EmmaAnne  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 3:58:39pm

re: #95 Lidane

[Embedded content]


And Bartlett immediately follows that post by individually tweeting the link to each GOP Rep named on the list. Heh.

I’m blinded by all the whiteness. I guess it is some kind of progress that there are a few women? Maybe?

128 dog philosopher  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 4:21:03pm

re: #108 Decatur Deb

Yes, a company not in the exchange (marketplace) can offer anything the state insurance officials have always permitted. They might find it hard to compete with the Qualified Health Plans in the exchange, however. (Might even be a policy offered by their own company.)

muchas gracias!

129 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 4:41:07pm

re: #120 EPR-radar

It seems that a dangerously large fraction of these people are just stupid. We can have a plutocracy in the US, with sick levels of wealth concentration, provided the system works well enough for a large enough fraction of the population.

Too many oligarchs are forgetting that the system has to basically work. Any real attempt to return to the gilded age will spark a revolution in the US that would rank right up there with the French and Russian revolutions in terms of horror and destruction.

The advantages of wealth in our society are huge. Look at Trump failing his way through life, making shitloads all the time. If we actually wanted a meritocracy we’d have massive estate taxes.

130 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 4:41:51pm

re: #114 Killgore Trout

I’m not too worried about it. If the stock market crashes then we’ll know the threat is real, until then it just looks like partisan hype and sensationalism from the media. If things go too far the institutional investors will be among the first to know.

They shut down the government, which is already causing huge damage to the economy. Unknown amounts, really, given the way it’s interrupted scientific research. You don’t know shit about it, of course.

131 EPR-radar  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 4:44:49pm

re: #129 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

The advantages of wealth in our society are huge. Look at Trump failing his way through life, making shitloads all the time. If we actually wanted a meritocracy we’d have massive estate taxes.

The estate tax, to kick in above a certain level, is simply the best tax there is. That’s probably why the GOP messaging on this point has been relentless for decades (i.e., death tax, lost the family farm to the death tax, etc. etc.).

132 Decatur Deb  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 4:52:53pm

re: #128 dog philosopher

muchas gracias!

Point of fact—there are only one or two vendors in the Alabama ‘market’. Just about everybody sells here, including Aetna, which dropped out of the ACA exchange.

Note: The terms ‘ACA market’ and ‘Exchange’ mean the same thing. Market is used in the training courses and the SOP book.

133 JEA62  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 5:02:51am

These would be the same guys who rated those crap sandwiches called mortgage credit swaps as AAA, right?


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