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228 comments
1 A Mom Anon  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 6:16:09pm

Any thoughts from the guitar players here on what kind of acoustic guitar to get a teenager who is teaching himself to play? Nothing expensive(I may hit the pawn shops to see if I can find higher end models for cheap), but I want something that will stay in tune and not warp or fall apart. He’s actually not doing too bad, I overheard him playing Iron Maiden on the little 3/4 size acoustic I got him when he was 10 a couple days ago. I think he needs a full size guitar now.

2 Charles Johnson  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 6:18:25pm

re: #1 A Mom Anon

One of the lower-priced Ovation models would be a great choice.

3 Amory Blaine  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 6:22:10pm

Ovations always slide down my leg.

4 klys  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 6:23:50pm

re: #3 Amory Blaine

Ovations always slide down my leg.

When I read this in Spy, I didn’t immediately think “oh, guitars” and this statement read really weird.

5 A Mom Anon  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 6:24:22pm

re: #2 Charles Johnson

Thank you Charles. I’ll see what I can find in our price range. I was impressed when I heard him. Not without mistakes mind you, but he loves music and I want to encourage him. He can’t read music so he’s doing it by ear and guitar tabs. Kid never ceases to amaze me.

6 Amory Blaine  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 6:26:07pm

re: #5 A Mom Anon

If he like Maiden and stuff make sure it has a cutaway.

7 Charles Johnson  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 6:28:31pm

Another good lower-priced acoustic brand: Dean Guitars.

amazon.com

8 Amory Blaine  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 6:28:40pm

re: #5 A Mom Anon

Thank you Charles. I’ll see what I can find in our price range. I was impressed when I heard him. Not without mistakes mind you, but he loves music and I want to encourage him. He can’t read music so he’s doing it by ear and guitar tabs. Kid never ceases to amaze me.

This dude is awesome for lessons. He always puts out new stuff.

Marty Schwartz

9 A Mom Anon  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 6:29:24pm

re: #6 Amory Blaine

He’s a total metalhead, that’s a good thing to keep in mind. He has an inexpensive electric and a mini Marshall. But he promptly blew the Marshall and I’m not replacing it right now because it’s the 3rd practice amp he’s blown up, so acoustic it is for now.

10 dog philosopher  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 6:29:30pm

re: #3 Amory Blaine

Ovations always slide down my leg.

yah ovations have a really nice sound, generally, for an acoustic guitar in their price range but it is a little hard to get them to not slide around when you are playing them sitting down

11 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 6:34:23pm

In case you’ve had some doubts about one (cough) of the Glenns being totally off the rails, doubt no more.

Glenn Beck rails against ‘progressive’ washing machines at Lowe’s

rawstory.com

12 makeitstop  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 6:35:02pm

I bought a ‘travel guitar’ (actually a 7/8 size acoustic and not one of those sawn-off looking ones) from a company called Walden Guitars.

American company, guitars are built in China, but built well, with real spruce and mahogany and good bracing and quality tuners, and reasonably priced. Also worth a look.

13 jaunte  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 6:36:21pm

re: #11 Justanotherhuman

Note to self: cross Beck off the progressive dinner party invitation list.

14 Amory Blaine  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 6:36:53pm

re: #11 Justanotherhuman

Ha, does it mention the unmentionables? Load in the rear?

15 Charles Johnson  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 6:37:09pm

Now trying to stop Adsense from showing those damned ads for toenail fungus remedies. Good grief.

16 Charles Johnson  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 6:39:51pm

OK, they’re blocked. WTF Google.

17 Charles Johnson  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 6:45:11pm
18 Kragar  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 6:48:54pm

Feds Raid Houston Homes Over Possible Chemical Weapons

19 bratwurst  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 6:49:06pm
20 freetoken  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 6:53:05pm

re: #15 Charles Johnson

FREE THE FUNGI!!

21 Velvet Elvis  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 6:53:33pm

re: #1 A Mom Anon

Any thoughts from the guitar players here on what kind of acoustic guitar to get a teenager who is teaching himself to play? Nothing expensive(I may hit the pawn shops to see if I can find higher end models for cheap), but I want something that will stay in tune and not warp or fall apart. He’s actually not doing too bad, I overheard him playing Iron Maiden on the little 3/4 size acoustic I got him when he was 10 a couple days ago. I think he needs a full size guitar now.

IMHO, the Seagull S6 is the best guitar you can get for under $1000. I got mine off Amazon for $400.

amazon.com

22 Stanley Sea  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 6:57:12pm

re: #12 makeitstop

I bought a ‘travel guitar’ (actually a 7/8 size acoustic and not one of those sawn-off looking ones) from a company called Walden Guitars.

American company, guitars are built in China, but built well, with real spruce and mahogany and good bracing and quality tuners, and reasonably priced. Also worth a look.

Know anything about Carvin? Their plant & showroom is next to my new job.

23 Amory Blaine  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 6:57:38pm

re: #21 Velvet Elvis

I just bought a Seagull last week. This one.

24 Velvet Elvis  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 6:59:24pm

re: #23 Amory Blaine

I just bought a Seagull last week. This one.

Pretty

25 A Mom Anon  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 7:00:30pm

Thanks for the suggestions everyone. Hopefully by Christmas we’ll have the extra money and can find him something nice.

26 Amory Blaine  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 7:01:02pm

Got a good deal I think on it. Paid 500 even at my local music parlor. Which was packed with eager new budding musicians because of the new school year.

27 makeitstop  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 7:01:23pm

re: #22 Stanley Sea

Know anything about Carvin? Their plant & showroom is next to my new job.

Carvin’s been around a long time. I don’t know whether they make acoustic guitars, but a couple of friends have electrics by them and they are very well-made guitars.

Back in the 70s and 80s they were better known for making pretty good quality, reasonably priced sound reinforcement gear. My bands back in those days used a lot of their gear.

28 Interesting Times  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 7:04:13pm

re: #19 bratwurst

Yeah…Texas GOPers are the most disgusting of the lot by far. I’m surprised they haven’t tried photoshopping her into pornographic pictures (or have they? I don’t wanna know…)

29 Charles Johnson  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 7:08:53pm

re: #3 Amory Blaine

Ovations always slide down my leg.

Yup, you really need to use a guitar strap with an Ovation to keep it from sliding, because of the round back.

30 b_sharp  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 7:12:39pm

re: #29 Charles Johnson

Yup, you really need to use a guitar strap with an Ovation to keep it from sliding, because of the round back.

And they tend to sound better plugged in.

31 b_sharp  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 7:13:09pm

Try finding a Blueridge. Made in China but really well built and sound fantastic.

32 Kragar  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 7:13:37pm
33 jaunte  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 7:14:23pm

re: #18 Kragar

Feds Raid Houston Homes Over Possible Chemical Weapons

I live less than a mile away from one of those houses.

34 Stanley Sea  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 7:14:34pm

Hey Ms. Prairie! How’s it?

35 Stanley Sea  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 7:16:33pm

re: #32 Kragar

I am very glad you joined the twitter. Let ‘er rip.

36 Stanley Sea  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 7:17:26pm

Ok SS has stopped brownnosing.

37 Charles Johnson  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 7:18:19pm
38 Kragar  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 7:19:01pm

re: #33 jaunte

I live less than a mile away from one of those houses.

Looks like the might be able to use that plastic wrap and duct tape homeland security said you should have on hand.
/

39 Amory Blaine  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 7:29:33pm

Jakarta Post: Let’s just say it: Insurgent Republicans have a problem with their country’s first black president.

How did the world’s lone superpower come to such a sorry pass?

The long and short answer is: A minority of Republicans in the US Congress wanted it that way. Senior American journalist James Fallows pinpoints “two basic facts” about the shutdown that “would come as news to most of the public.”

First: “If the House of Representatives voted on a ‘clean’ budget bill—one that opened up the closed federal offices but did not attempt to defund the Obama healthcare program—that bill would pass, and the shutdown would be over.” And second: “So far House Speaker John Boehner has refused to let this vote occur.”

We will not pretend that both the Democrats and the Republicans are equally at fault; as the title of an influential op-ed by scholars Thomas E. Mann and Norman J. Ornstein in the Washington Post in April last year phrased it: “Let’s just say it: The Republicans are the problem.”

40 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 7:38:54pm

Dudebros having a field day with this Appelbaum tweet:


Does Appelbaum really think Google is there to help his enterprise? Or is this just for the publicity?

41 ProTARDISLiberal  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 7:41:58pm

re: #39 Amory Blaine

When Indonesia has take a swing at a foreign political party, you know things are bad. Though, there might be a more personal motive.

42 Lidane  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 7:43:04pm
43 HoosierHoops  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 7:43:40pm

Hi Lizards! Happy Friday
Just got a new Droid phone and love it.. I wonder how many hours I’ve spent playing with all the cool shit it does. The hits just keep on coming…
So I blindly started downloading dozens of apps…mmm Storage! I’ll take that for the expanded mobile experience..Ok Skydrive…I started installing it and after a few screens I realized it was a Microsoft product.. I left at the speed of light then stumbled into the kitchen and took a long slug of whisky, shaking and leaning against the counter.. I almost gave my information to MS!
My gawd..What more evil can they befall me with?
Cloud drive! That’s it..The Google cloud..Hell they know everything anyway..The NSA of the Gloud…
So I download the app and was getting ready to upload stuff..What? What?
After 14 days you have to pay? as*holes…So Mr. Google..It’s not really free per say..Right? Your ads should read, Sort of free. or get your 2 weeks of storage free.. If you don’t pay I guess they get to keep all your shit..
Why doesn’t Obama have a cloud?

44 Teukka  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 7:50:07pm

I know, off topic, but…

Fox News asks Nicaraguan meteorologist to host ‘Taco Day’ segment ‘You grew up on tacos’

What next?

45 Kragar  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 7:54:22pm

re: #44 Teukka

Check the pages

46 Teukka  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 7:57:40pm

re: #45 Kragar

Check the pages

See what you mean now. Sorry about that.

(Link to page)

47 Shvaughn  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 7:57:56pm

re: #44 Teukka

I know, off topic, but…

Fox News asks Nicaraguan meteorologist to host ‘Taco Day’ segment ‘You grew up on tacos’

What next?

I grew up on tacos but that’s because I lived in California.

48 Velvet Elvis  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 8:00:07pm

re: #47 Shvaughn

I grew up on tacos but that’s because I lived in California.

I grew up on tacos because Taco Bell was nearby.

49 Shvaughn  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 8:01:45pm

National Weather Service weather report spells out P-L-E-A-S-E-P-A-Y-U-S.

Screenshot of the weather report

50 Varek Raith  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 8:02:36pm

re: #44 Teukka

I know, off topic, but…

Fox News asks Nicaraguan meteorologist to host ‘Taco Day’ segment ‘You grew up on tacos’

What next?

re: #45 Kragar

Check the pages

Wtf

51 Varek Raith  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 8:03:27pm

Kilmeade.
Should’ve known.
Dumbest man on tv.

52 GeneJockey  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 8:04:45pm

Where I grew up, tacos were more exotic than lobster. I didn’t have a taco - hell, ANY Mexican food! - till I was at least a teenager, and then only because we were taking my brother back to his Alternate Service job in Norristown.

53 GeneJockey  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 8:07:14pm

It’s a Dark and Stormy night.

Man, I gotta eat something. Two drinks and I’m feeling distinctly happy.

54 klys  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 8:15:23pm

re: #53 GeneJockey

It’s a Dark and Stormy night.

Man, I gotta eat something. Two drinks and I’m feeling distinctly happy.

/would love ACTUAL DARK AND STORMY WEATHER, THX

55 klys  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 8:17:14pm

FROZEN SPINACH DIE DIE DIE.

Sorry, attempting to come up with a mealplan for the next week and reading recipes.

56 klys  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 8:19:59pm

re: #55 klys

FROZEN SPINACH DIE DIE DIE.

Sorry, attempting to come up with a mealplan for the next week and reading recipes.

Mushroom stuffed pork chops with roasted root vegetables, anyone?

Supposedly freezer friendly. Chances are good you will get a report back.

57 GeneJockey  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 8:20:34pm

re: #54 klys

/would love ACTUAL DARK AND STORMY WEATHER, THX


“Don’t know why
“There’s no sun up in the sky.
“Stormy weather….”

58 klys  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 8:21:06pm

re: #57 GeneJockey


“Don’t know why
“There’s no sun up in the sky.
“Stormy weather….”

#*%()@&%)#&%)@#* Bay Area.

The report for Timberline Lodge had 11” of new snow in the past 72 hours.

59 klys  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 8:22:14pm

Sorry, someone is still at work and hemming and hawing on whether or not he wants to go out for dinner when he gets home where I am at the point of look, I’ll fucking turn on the oven and stick in the flat crust pizza, because I had sliced cucumbers at noon.

And it’s Friday and my new bag hasn’t shown up. But the new homework was assigned on schedule.

/cranky Lizard

60 GeneJockey  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 8:22:56pm

re: #56 klys

Mushroom stuffed pork chops with roasted root vegetables, anyone?

Supposedly freezer friendly. Chances are good you will get a report back.

Is that a euphemism? ;-)

We’re having Snake and Spider Beef and Barley Stew tonight, courtesy of the older boy. He seasoned it himself, without a recipe. I wait with trepidation. The boy knows nothing of subtlety - a whole head of garlic for Carbonara, for example.

61 klys  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 8:24:58pm

re: #60 GeneJockey

Is that a euphemism? ;-)

We’re having Snake and Spider Beef and Barley Stew tonight, courtesy of the older boy. He seasoned it himself, without a recipe. I wait with trepidation. The boy knows nothing of subtlety - a whole head of garlic for Carbonara, for example.

Haha. I’m experimenting with the whole concept of make-ahead dishes, because I frequently have bursts of energy when it comes to cooking but am otherwise extremely lazy about it.

So sometimes this means gourmet dinner one night, but I want to put healthy food on the table a little more often.

So far the conclusions are: my vaccuum sealer is God and we need a bigger freezer, desperately. I’ll take either a side-by-side or (preferably) a French door on top with two bottom freezer drawers, and then a full freezer in the garage.

This is how I know I’ve grown up. I lust after household appliances.

62 klys  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 8:28:59pm

Oh wow, this looks good: hot and spicy borboa goulash (freezer friendly!).

63 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 8:29:50pm

re: #55 klys

FROZEN SPINACH DIE DIE DIE.

Sorry, attempting to come up with a mealplan for the next week and reading recipes.

I have a few recipes that use frozen spinach. Including one that is a salmon-spinach loaf that uses canned salmon as well.

64 klys  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 8:30:41pm

re: #63 Feline Fearless Leader

I have a few recipes that use frozen spinach. Including one that is a salmon-spinach loaf that uses canned salmon as well.

The only form of spinach I can tolerate is raw.

Unfortunately for him, I am also not a fan of salmon. And since I do all the work to set up the meal plans, shop, and cook, I get to decide the menu.

65 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 8:31:58pm

re: #64 klys

The only form of spinach I can tolerate is raw.

Unfortunately for him, I am also not a fan of salmon. And since I do all the work to set up the meal plans, shop, and cook, I get to decide the menu.

I had a friend whose wife liked it as something for me to bring over for get-togethers. And the cats *always* approved of a can of salmon being opened.

66 klys  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 8:32:46pm

re: #65 Feline Fearless Leader

I had a friend whose wife liked it as something for me to bring over for get-togethers. And the cats *always* approved of a can of salmon being opened.

We’re still working on rotating tilapia in on a regular basis, unfortunately.

The problem cat goes absolutely NUTS over deli sliced turkey.

67 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 8:35:39pm

re: #66 klys

We’re still working on rotating tilapia in on a regular basis, unfortunately.

The problem cat goes absolutely NUTS over deli sliced turkey.

The Siamese were poultry nuts. I’d end up with leftovers from BBQ tailgates for football games. I’d eat hamburgers or sausage for a few days while the cats skipped catfood and demanded nothing but grilled chicken until it ran out.

When they got older and I was cooking chicken they’d get a quarter of a breast split between them and lightly cooked before I started spicing everything up for my share.

68 Single-handed sailor  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 8:56:56pm

re: #64 klys

The only form of spinach I can tolerate is raw.

Unfortunately for him, I am also not a fan of salmon. And since I do all the work to set up the meal plans, shop, and cook, I get to decide the menu.

The only form of salmon I can tolerate is raw. Good thing Safeway has a sushi counter.

69 Kragar  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 9:00:51pm

re: #68 Single-handed sailor

The only form of salmon I can tolerate is raw. Good thing Safeway has a sushi counter.

Sushi… from a supermarket?

/shudder

70 klys  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 9:02:18pm

re: #69 Kragar

Sushi… from a supermarket?

/shudder

After his time in Japan, there are a very limited number of places in the States my husband can tolerate sushi from, and the supermarket isn’t one.

As opposed to *in* Japan, where convenience store sushi is fine.

71 klys  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 9:09:55pm

Yep, I’m that dork hanging out with myself at 9pm on a Friday night.

On the Internet.

Talking to myself.

72 piratedan  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 9:12:30pm

re: #71 klys

could be worse, you could be fishing online like I am…. :-)

www.trophyfishingonline.com

73 Amory Blaine  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 9:17:18pm

re: #71 klys

he he.

74 klys  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 9:18:07pm

re: #72 piratedan

could be worse, you could be fishing online like I am…. :-)

www.trophyfishingonline.com

Like I am now.

What can I say, I’m bored.

75 Targetpractice  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 9:21:33pm

I don’t know what it is, but as I become more and more powerful in a game, I find myself less and less driven to play it for hours on end.

76 Amory Blaine  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 9:21:47pm

Our sheriff is a total wingnut. The County Executive is cutting his budget. Something I thought wingnuts supported was a leaner government. Here’s his response:

The sheriff’s cuts drew immediate fire from Clarke.

“Abele should be drug-tested,” the sheriff said in a statement. “He has to be on heroin or hallucinating with that statement.”

Clarke said he would “provide the level of safety that I believe Milwaukee County residents deserve. He’ll have to sue me in court to get me to accept those cuts.”

Abele and Clarke have engaged in a long-running, high-profile tiff over the sheriff’s budgets, with Clarke providing the more incendiary rhetoric.

77 piratedan  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 9:22:44pm

re: #74 klys

well there are number of great time wasters out there…. amongst my favorites are….

www.pogo.com
www.geoguessr.com
www.space.com

78 Amory Blaine  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 9:23:40pm

re: #75 Targetpractice

That’s not what a 1%’r says.
//

79 Velvet Elvis  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 9:23:51pm

re: #71 klys

Yep, I’m that dork hanging out with myself at 9pm on a Friday night.

On the Internet.

Talking to myself.

It’s called getting old.

80 Targetpractice  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 9:39:12pm

I also notice that it tends to take at least two tries before I get the hang of how to best play a game.

81 wrenchwench  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 9:57:59pm

re: #77 piratedan

well there are number of great time wasters out there…. amongst my favorites are….

www.pogo.com
www.geoguessr.com
www.space.com

Damn you and your geoguesser.

82 jaunte  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 10:00:47pm

re: #81 wrenchwench

Damn Faroe islands, looking like Iceland.

83 piratedan  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 10:01:17pm

re: #81 wrenchwench

well I never claimed that I wasn’t evil…..

and good luck telling Western Australia from Northwest South Africa, need to be a damn botanist and picking the proper Russian Central Asian city can be a chore too

although if you’re an anime fan and don’t mind series being subbed, I would recommend anime44.com for those amongst us who are secret otakus

84 klys  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 10:06:43pm

re: #83 piratedan

well I never claimed that I wasn’t evil…..

and good luck telling Western Australia from Northwest South Africa, need to be a damn botanist and picking the proper Russian Central Asian city can be a chore too

although if you’re an anime fan and don’t mind series being subbed, I would recommend anime44.com for those amongst us who are secret otakus

Husband is firing up his evening series of choice at the moment on Crunchy Roll.

85 wrenchwench  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 10:09:16pm

re: #82 jaunte

Damn Faroe islands, looking like Iceland.

My farthest off guesses tend to be directly north-south, or directly east-west. And sometimes you’re in the right country and in the right latitude, and it’s still a couple thousand kilometers off.

86 piratedan  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 10:10:25pm

re: #84 klys

just finished Silver Spoon and Servant X Service last week and am busy test driving the new releases for the Fall season to see which I’ll follow.

87 klys  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 10:11:32pm

re: #86 piratedan

just finished Silver Spoon and Servant X Service last week and am busy test driving the new releases for the Fall season to see which I’ll follow.

I tend to be very picky and a lot of my current leisure time needs to be double booked with crafting work so subbed stuff isn’t working well.

I’ve been doing audiobooks a fair amount instead.

88 piratedan  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 10:14:14pm

re: #87 klys

I tend to be very picky and a lot of my current leisure time needs to be double booked with crafting work so subbed stuff isn’t working well.

I’ve been doing audiobooks a fair amount instead.

well I have to admit, that I tend to prefer the subbed material because I can then read the emotional emphasis into the translations, but its a ymmv kind of thing imho. Agree with being picky, I may start out with as many as five to start with but rarely end a season watching more than three, depends on the studio and the story naturally.

89 Amory Blaine  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 10:14:39pm

Talk about a black hole I was surfing last night and somehow I ended up here. Check this place out.

90 klys  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 10:16:24pm

re: #88 piratedan

well I have to admit, that I tend to prefer the subbed material because I can then read the emotional emphasis into the translations, but its a ymmv kind of thing imho. Agree with being picky, I may start out with as many as five to start with but rarely end a season watching more than three, depends on the studio and the story naturally.

Oh, I prefer subbed with very few exceptions.

Which is why my anime watching is currently low, because needing to look at what I’m doing and reading subtitles are not compatible.

91 freetoken  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 10:17:03pm

re: #89 Amory Blaine

maps.google.com

92 klys  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 10:18:15pm

re: #89 Amory Blaine

Talk about a black hole I was surfing last night and somehow I ended up here. Check this place out.

My only response is clearly money doesn’t buy taste.

Or, apparently, sense.

ETA: I do like that the listing calls out that it has a garbage disposal. Not the elevator, the garbage disposal.

93 Amory Blaine  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 10:18:55pm

It’s Wayne Newtons house.

94 freetoken  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 10:19:24pm

Who would pay $70,000,000 to live a few blocks away from the end of a runway of one of the busiest airports in the region?

re: #92 klys

Or, apparently, sense.

The nouveau riche?

95 freetoken  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 10:19:44pm

re: #93 Amory Blaine

That would explain it.

96 Amory Blaine  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 10:23:02pm

That plane can’t even go anywhere. 70 mil is obscene.

97 freetoken  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 10:52:53pm

I wish President Obama would return to the “clinging to guns and Bible” topic.

It really was point on.

98 EPR-radar  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 10:58:07pm

re: #75 Targetpractice

I don’t know what it is, but as I become more and more powerful in a game, I find myself less and less driven to play it for hours on end.

I have the opposite tendency. I can spend way too much time putting the finishing touches on a power-up exercise.

E.g., powering up Vincent’s Death Penalty in Final Fantasy VII, which is essentially ridiculous to do.

99 Lidane  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 10:59:39pm

re: #89 Amory Blaine

Talk about a black hole I was surfing last night and somehow I ended up here. Check this place out.

The plastic covers on the plane seats made me laugh out loud. It’s a perfect summary of the entire photoset — clearly ornate and expensive, but also hilariously tacky.

100 freetoken  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 11:09:00pm

re: #99 Lidane

It embraces more than the chronic tackiness in modern American society.

For example, all that lawn, in a desert. That water has to come from somewhere, certainly not directly from rain. It is taken from Lake Mead, which can no longer sustain the population of the southwest that depends upon it.

Really, that property in a set of pictures illustrates much of what is “wrong” with our society.

101 freetoken  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 11:14:31pm

I wonder if this is discussing the property in question, and if so what happened to the “museum”?

clark.granicus.com

102 freetoken  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 11:20:50pm

Of the three most over-the-top long running American, highly mythologized, perpetual Las Vegas musical noblemen - Elvis, Liberace, and Wayne Newton, I prefer:

MP3 Audio

103 GeneJockey  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 11:23:07pm

Reasons why I love my wife, Part N:

Tonight, she saw a big spider (as in 2” leg span) on the ceiling above my watchmakers desk. After we caught and examined it, we determined it’s a Zoropsis spinimana, a recent immigrant from the Mediterranean, and not ‘medically important’. I also determined that ‘it’ is a ‘she’.

I was going to release her in the garden, but Mrs. Jockey insisted on releasing her in the house.

A woman who not only isn’t freaked out by a big-ass spider, but actually wants it in the house. How cool is that?

104 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 11:23:09pm

Oh what the fucking hell. Dark_Falcon retweeted this:

105 Lidane  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 11:31:06pm

re: #104 goddamnedfrank

Stockman is childish, stupid, and insufferable. So is all this fake Republican outrage over the memorials being closed. What the fuck did the wingnuts expect when they let the government shutdown instead of acting like adults? Did they expect people to be allowed to roam freely through national parks and memorials? WTF.

Also, anyone focusing on the WW2 memorial being closed while ignoring how WIC, Head Start and the VA are being directly affected by the shutdown is a small-minded, easily manipulated dupe. If you care more about war memorials than actual, breathing people that are being hurt, I don’t know what to say to you.

106 The Mountain That Blogs  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 11:33:21pm

re: #105 Lidane

Also, anyone focusing on the WW2 memorial being closed while ignoring how WIC, Head Start and the VA are being directly affected by the shutdown is a small-minded, easily manipulated dupe

This. I couldn’t care less about the pandacam. Let me know when the CDC is functioning again.

107 GeneJockey  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 11:34:38pm

re: #106 The Mountain That Blogs

This. I couldn’t care less about the pandacam. Let me know when the CDC is functioning again.

Not telegenic enough. No photo ops showing epidemiologists at computers and talking on the phone,

108 Lidane  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 11:46:59pm

re: #106 The Mountain That Blogs

This. I couldn’t care less about the pandacam. Let me know when the CDC is functioning again.

Seriously.

I don’t give a damn that the Grand Canyon and the pandacam are closed. I care about the fact that FEMA is going to be at barebones levels during a hurricane. I care about the fact that the CDC can’t track disease outbreaks, and the FDA can’t inspect anything being imported to the US and Immigration isn’t doing any E-Verify checks right now, which slows down new job hires since a lot of businesses rely on E-Verify in their hiring process.

All this “Obummer doesn’t care about vets becuz teh WW2 Memorial iz closed!” bullshit is truly manipulative and stupid when programs that actually help veterans are being directly affected. It’s totally manufactured outrage aimed at the dumb and easily led.

109 Lidane  Fri, Oct 4, 2013 11:52:04pm
110 Kragar  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 12:11:50am

To the GOP, keeping a statue open to the public is more important than paying, feeding, or taking care of the health of the people who might want to see it.

111 EPR-radar  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 12:15:14am

re: #104 goddamnedfrank

Oh what the fucking hell. Dark_Falcon retweeted this:

[Embedded content]

Naturally. There exists the possibility that this warped way of viewing things gets traction among the public, thereby taking some of the political heat off the GOP for their stupid and destructive actions.

Therefore, a loyal team player will try to spread this point of view.

112 Eclectic Cyborg  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 1:20:22am

La. GOP rep: My constituents don’t care about a shutdown but they sure hate Obamacare

Representative John Fleming, a Louisiana Republican, said Boehner told members yesterday that he had no intention of “rolling over” to Democrats’ demands for spending and debt-limit bills without policy conditions. He said his constituents aren’t concerned about the shutdown.

“All they want to talk about was the drag of Obamacare,” Fleming told reporters. “I don’t think many of my constituents even know that there is a shutdown, or even care.”

113 dog philosopher  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 1:25:31am

a little open letter to our entertaining friend francis

Maybe I don’t dot my I’s or cross my T’s, but I can see problems that the intelligent world can’t seem to solve. Maybe there is some merit in being ignorant.

well you know francis there is fancy education, there is a sharp mind, there is common sense, and there is facts. they all are different aspects of intelligence, and they’re all different. different people have them in different degrees

for my money, francis, i’m afraid you are showing a lot of ignorance and gullibility generally. gullibility, obviously, is poor judgement, that is, common sense not functioning that well. my advice would be to be more skeptical of things you read on the internet - eh? a little accumulation of facts, historical background, and different points of view wouldn’t hurt either

you are right that there are all these people in the world who pass themselves off as being very smart, experts in their field and so on, and the stupid bastards have made a gigantic mess of things. i agree with that part

but that doesn’t mean it’s good to be ignorant, or gullible

114 dog philosopher  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 1:27:59am

but I can see problems that the intelligent world can’t seem to solve

and here, francis, you are just breaking your arm patting yourself on the back for being so much smarter than anybody else

you ain’t

i told you to look up the dunning-kruger effect, but apparently you didn’t do it

115 Usually refered to as anyways  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 1:42:25am

re: #112 Eclectic Cyborg

“I don’t think many of my constituents even know that there is a shutdown, or even care.”

He could be right, if their his constituents they probably would know much at all…

116 Lidane  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 2:27:09am

re: #112 Eclectic Cyborg

La. GOP rep: My constituents don’t care about a shutdown but they sure hate Obamacare

If his constituents don’t know there’s a shutdown, they must live in grass huts without electricity, running water, the internet, newspapers, or TV. It’s damn near impossible not to know there’s a shutdown right now.

117 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 2:38:52am
“Now that we’ve jumped off the cliff, lit ourselves on fire, we’ve entered the valley of death,” said Rep. Devin Nunes, R-Calif., who has criticized the conservatives’ strategy. “So now we’ve got to keep running and we have to hold together.”

This is Rapa Nui as the last forrest is being chopped down, just before the cannibalism. Sociological insanity. A people, who, realizing they’ve made a monumental mistake as a collective group, are as individuals utterly unwilling to take separate action even to save themselves. And the irony, these same people, who are paralyzed by their collective membership, all worship at the alter of their own individual egos. They praise individualism as an ideological guide star and despise everything that is in any way socialist.

118 freetoken  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 2:59:18am

In a society gone mad, there is still beauty:

MP3 Audio

119 Dr Lizardo  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 2:59:30am

re: #117 goddamnedfrank

This is Rapa Nui as the last forrest is being chopped down, just before the cannibalism. Sociological insanity. A people, who, realizing they’ve made a monumental mistake as a collective group, are as individuals utterly unwilling to take separate action even to save themselves. And the irony, these same people, who are paralyzed by their collective membership, all worship at the alter of their own individual egos. They praise individualism as an ideological guide star and despise everything that is in any way socialist.

Groupthink taken to its logical extreme outcome.

120 sagehen  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 3:11:45am

re: #116 Lidane

If his constituents don’t know there’s a shutdown, they must live in grass huts without electricity, running water, the internet, newspapers, or TV. It’s damn near impossible not to know there’s a shutdown right now.

It’s Louisiana — they very well might live in hovels with no electricity or running water.

121 freetoken  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 3:30:18am

In a society which rewards the perpetually stupid and infantile with reality TV shows and extravagant lifestyles, why would we expect their representatives in Congress to be a fount of reasonable governance?

122 Justanotherhuman  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 3:30:46am

re: #108 Lidane

That photo is disturbing.

123 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 3:32:06am

re: #121 freetoken

In a society which rewards the perpetually stupid and infantile with reality TV shows and extravagant lifestyles, why would we expect their representatives in Congress to be a fount of reasonable governance?

The two things aren’t really connected.

124 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 3:32:35am

re: #117 goddamnedfrank

This is Rapa Nui as the last forrest is being chopped down, just before the cannibalism. Sociological insanity. A people, who, realizing they’ve made a monumental mistake as a collective group, are as individuals utterly unwilling to take separate action even to save themselves. And the irony, these same people, who are paralyzed by their collective membership, all worship at the alter of their own individual egos. They praise individualism as an ideological guide star and despise everything that is in any way socialist.

It is funny how collectivist the supposed champions of individualism are.

125 Bubblehead II  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 3:43:57am

Morning Lizards. see Francis has left another turd over in the pages.

Only needs 5 more down dings to remove it.

126 Justanotherhuman  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 3:46:43am

re: #117 goddamnedfrank

This is Rapa Nui as the last forrest is being chopped down, just before the cannibalism. Sociological insanity. A people, who, realizing they’ve made a monumental mistake as a collective group, are as individuals utterly unwilling to take separate action even to save themselves. And the irony, these same people, who are paralyzed by their collective membership, all worship at the alter of their own individual egos. They praise individualism as an ideological guide star and despise everything that is in any way socialist.

They should all have to read Collapse. But they won’t, of course.

en.wikipedia.org

127 Justanotherhuman  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 4:07:02am

Wowser, 3 ft of snow in parts of SD and MT.

We’ve overdue for a hard winter in this part of NC. Dreading the ice and snow I think we’ll have. The State usually takes care of the hwys, but secondary county roads and your local neighborhood are just SOL because Republicans. It’s up to you to clear your own roads. Not unusual to see an individual out there on his tractor, scraping the road you live on.

128 William Barnett-Lewis  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 4:08:07am

re: #109 Lidane

[Embedded content]

Not sure where that comes from. FFL’s have been sent a letter by BATF that NICS will remain available. Even if it isn’t, after three days of no response from NICS, the FFL can hand over the firearm to the buyer at the FFL’s discretion. Plus several states, like Wisconsin for handgun purchases, have their own background check system that does not rely on the federal NICS to operate.

There might be a trifle slowdown in gun sales but nothing will stop.

129 Justanotherhuman  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 4:10:31am

re: #125 Bubblehead II

Morning Lizards. see Francis has left another turd over in the pages.

Only needs 5 more down dings to remove it.

Needs 10 to be removed? I just made it 11, haha.

130 Bubblehead II  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 4:19:17am

re: #129 Justanotherhuman

Needs 10 to be removed? I just made it 11, haha.

Well, Lizards, as Satt likes to say. Now is the time for the long quite trip home to work.

131 A Mom Anon  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 4:23:59am

re: #128 William Barnett-Lewis

Well of course we couldn’t have gun sales stop. That would be akin to crucifying Jesus a second time. Sigh. I have nothing against guns, just sick of them being such a priority for so many people. I do however have issues with idiots owning firearms. Like the people who “forget” they have a loaded handgun in their purse or briefcase. WTF? How is that possible? If you can be so casual about a loaded firearm you shouldn’t be allowed to keep one. It’s nuts.

I am pretty sure I’ve lost a dear friend over this stupid shutdown madness. She’s been posting shit from the National Republican Senate Committee on her Facebook page and she refuses to call me or even acknowledge my presence. She’s upset that he son is on furlough right now, I get that, but I guess she hates me now because I’m a liberal. I don’t get people, I really don’t.

132 Justanotherhuman  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 4:36:30am

re: #131 A Mom Anon

Hate lies just beneath the surface with some people, and they don’t even attempt to “regulate” it. It’s part of the kind of selfishness that seems to be gripping the country in some quarters. It’s also what happens when people think there are scarcities and they want to make sure they get more than theirs so they never have to do without. It’s how the paranoid and preppers think, even though most of what they’re spending their money on won’t be worth a hill of beans in 5 or 10 yrs.

The Rs are peddling hate because they know when things are “personal” it causes people to keep seeing life through the lens the Rs provide them.

133 Justanotherhuman  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 4:48:20am

I think I probably would have tried to get the hell out there, too.

Several cops may have watched biker beatdown

nypost.com

“Front Line Soldiers” motorcycle club: frontlinesoldiersmc.com

134 Justanotherhuman  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 5:06:35am

One hateful fraud spawns another hateful fraud…and claims he’s “destined for greatness”.

Youtube Video

Sorry, but not in this life.

You can find other videos on Youtube about how this horrible man raised his son in his own image and with his “values” of hate and ignorance.

135 A Mom Anon  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 5:10:30am

re: #132 Justanotherhuman

I just wish my friends would READ stuff instead of just reacting to crap that gets passed around Facebook. I can’t let lies slide, and I debunk this shit every time with links and stuff, you’d think by now they would learn a little.

136 A Mom Anon  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 5:12:48am

re: #134 Justanotherhuman

I guess the rotten apple didn’t fall far from the diseased tree.

137 Justanotherhuman  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 5:23:31am

re: #135 A Mom Anon

Why read when “someone” will show you something and make you believe it?

We’ve become a country of voyeurs, in more ways than one. Our anti-intellectualism is supported by our entertainment industry—movies, TV, the internet, which allow us to indulge it to our heart’s content without reading 99% of the time.

I remember 20 yrs ago when work mates used to bring in brown bags full of that Harlequin trash to trade and thought they were reading great literature. It’s why “50 Shades of Gray” became so popular, because it follows the same kind of formulaic “writing” but with a lot of sex thrown in.

Everybody “writes” these days, but nobody really reads.

138 Dr Lizardo  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 5:29:17am

re: #137 Justanotherhuman

I’ve encountered young Americans here - English teachers, ironically - some of whom have a very difficult time reading H.P. Lovecraft, not because of the more, shall we say, unpleasant aspects of his writings, but because of the vocabulary he employed, with its British spellings and mildly archaic phraseology.

One young fellow couldn’t believe that “The Call of Cthulhu” was written by an American author in the Twentieth Century.

139 Justanotherhuman  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 5:48:10am

re: #138 Dr Lizardo

I’ve encountered young Americans here - English teachers, ironically - some of whom have a very difficult time reading H.P. Lovecraft, not because of the more, shall we say, unpleasant aspects of his writings, but because of the vocabulary he employed, with its British spellings and mildly archaic phraseology.

One young fellow couldn’t believe that “The Call of Cthulhu” was written by an American author in the Twentieth Century.

I’ve never had any desire to read Lovecraft; horror and science fiction are not genres I particularly enjoy.

140 William Barnett-Lewis  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 5:58:24am

re: #133 Justanotherhuman

I think I probably would have tried to get the hell out there, too.

Several cops may have watched biker beatdown

nypost.com

“Front Line Soldiers” motorcycle club: frontlinesoldiersmc.com

Those undercover cops were perfectly legal in sitting back and watching that happen.

That is one of the biggest reasons some of us support CCW - the courts have repeatedly ruled that the police have No requirement to protect you. They have said that you have no right to be protected by the state from being injured or murdered. Instead that is your own responsibility and where self-defense comes into play.

141 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 5:59:48am

re: #140 William Barnett-Lewis

That’s a really silly way to put it.

142 William Barnett-Lewis  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 6:04:13am

re: #139 Justanotherhuman

I’ve never had any desire to read Lovecraft; horror and science fiction are not genres I particularly enjoy.

In every genre there is great writing and there is bad. Indeed, it was a sf writer, Ted Sturgeon who came up with Sturgeon’s Law in reaction to the level of writing in most genre fiction: “90% of everything is crap”

OTOH, it makes reading things like Bradbury, Heinlein, Haldeman and Bujold that much more pleasant because their writings are mostly above the crap line.

143 William Barnett-Lewis  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 6:07:39am

re: #141 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

That’s a really silly way to put it.

Why? The police have no legal responsibilty for you. Despite what people think.

In Warren vs. District of Columbia:

By a 4-3 decision the court decided that Warren was not entitled to remedy at the bar despite the demonstrable abuse and ineptitude on the part of the police because no special relationship existed. The court stated that official police personnel and the government employing them owe no duty to victims of criminal acts and thus are not liable for a failure to provide adequate police protection unless a special relationship exists. The case was dismissed by the trial court for failure to state a claim and the case never went to trial

en.wikipedia.org

There are other cases as well. If the police will not protect you, then only you can.

144 sattv4u2  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 6:39:41am

re: #143 William Barnett-Lewis

If the police will not protect you, then only you can.

That’s why I so miss my mom!!!

// (only sorta!)

145 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 6:48:30am

re: #143 William Barnett-Lewis

Why? The police have no legal responsibilty for you. Despite what people think.

In Warren vs. District of Columbia:

en.wikipedia.org

There are other cases as well. If the police will not protect you, then only you can.

QFT

146 ObserverArt  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 6:53:22am

re: #125 Bubblehead II

Morning Lizards. see Francis has left another turd over in the pages.

Only needs 5 more down dings to remove it.

Anyone have a clue as to what francis is trying to achieve posting these letters in pages here at LGF? It seems they get down-dinged quickly. I never see francis in the comments to main page stories debating with others. So, what the hell? Kind of seems like going out in a driving snow storm in the middle of a forest and yelling here I am world! Instead of does a tree make a sound when it falls if no one is there substitute francis for the tree.

Maybe it is therapeutic or something.

147 sattv4u2  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 6:56:37am

re: #146 ObserverArt

Kind of seems like going out in a driving snow storm in the middle of a forest and yelling here I am world

Not really

I don’t read his/ her pages but from the looks of the Bottom Comments many others do and comment/ debate her/ him on it

148 ObserverArt  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 7:10:28am

re: #135 A Mom Anon

I just wish my friends would READ stuff instead of just reacting to crap that gets passed around Facebook. I can’t let lies slide, and I debunk this shit every time with links and stuff, you’d think by now they would learn a little.

They do not want to learn. It is one of the reason they do not read.

And to go with some of the themes in your other comments this morning, their not wanting to learn and your helping them most likely upsets them. They want you to confirm their thoughts and preconceptions.

Sad isn’t it? Much of America is willfully dense. Almost like if they find more truths or facts that fly in their faces it scares them to no end. And that has crept into our education system with all the home schooling, schools are indoctrinating, creationism over science, etc.

But overall the biggest thing that is absolutely confounding…they really do not want free speech. Oh sure they can say and think what they want, but the minute you say what they don’t want to hear, they don’t want to allow your free speech.

This will all hurt this country so much. We no longer need to worry about the enemy from outside. We are own own enemy inside. Like all great societies that go down, it all comes from within.

149 ObserverArt  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 7:12:41am

re: #137 Justanotherhuman

Why read when “someone” will show you something and make you believe it?

We’ve become a country of voyeurs, in more ways than one. Our anti-intellectualism is supported by our entertainment industry—movies, TV, the internet, which allow us to indulge it to our heart’s content without reading 99% of the time.

I remember 20 yrs ago when work mates used to bring in brown bags full of that Harlequin trash to trade and thought they were reading great literature. It’s why “50 Shades of Gray” became so popular, because it follows the same kind of formulaic “writing” but with a lot of sex thrown in.

Everybody “writes” these days, but nobody really reads.

Good points. But I have to ask…do they really write, or do they mash keys?

150 Gus  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 7:13:23am
How can I explain
When there are few words I can choose
How can I explain
When words get broken
(Yeah)

Do you remember
There was a time ahaha
When people on the street
Were walking hand in hand in hand
They used to talk about the weather
Making plans together
Days would last forever

Come to me, cover me, hold me
Together we’ll break these chains of love
Don’t give up (Don’t give up)
Don’t give up (Don’t)
Together with me and my baby
Break the chains of love

Do you remember
Once upon a time ahaha
When there were open doors
An invitation to the world
We were falling in and out with lovers
Looking out for others
Our sisters and our brothers

Come to me, cover me, hold me
Together we’ll break these chains of love
Don’t give up (Don’t give up)
Don’t give up (Don’t)
Together with me and my baby
Together we’ll break these chains of love

How can I explain
When there are few words I can choose
How can I explain
When words get broken

We used to talk about the weather
Making plans together
Days would last forever

Come to me, cover me, hold me
Together we’ll break these chains of love
Don’t give up (Don’t give up)
Don’t give up (Don’t)
Together with me and my baby break these chains of love
Together we’ll break these chains of love
Don’t give up (Don’t give up)
Don’t give up (Don’t)
Together with me and my baby break the chains of love
Together we’ll break these chains of love
Don’t give up (Don’t give up)
Don’t give up (Don’t)
Together with me and my baby break the chains of love
Together we’ll break these chains of love

151 Gus  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 7:19:13am

You spin me right round baby…

152 Gus  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 7:20:50am

What’s the command for sharing text on Twitter, etc?

[Waits 2 weeks for answer.]

153 sattv4u2  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 7:21:01am

re: #151 Gus

You spin me right round baby…

I throw up on merry-go-rounds!
/

154 Gus  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 7:21:54am

re: #153 sattv4u2

I throw up on merry-go-rounds!
/

Preferably while it’s still spinning.

155 ObserverArt  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 7:22:02am

re: #153 sattv4u2

I throw up on merry-go-rounds!
/

No roller coaster for you!

156 sattv4u2  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 7:22:55am

re: #155 ObserverArt

No roller coaster for you!

Not bad for me

The people behind me though,, not so much

157 Justanotherhuman  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 7:23:26am

re: #149 ObserverArt

Good points. But I have to ask…do they really write, or do they mash keys?

Which is why I had “writes” in ” “.

: )

158 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 7:25:08am

re: #148 ObserverArt

My dad’s favorite comment about that is, “People read but they do not comprehend.”

159 ObserverArt  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 7:26:18am

re: #157 Justanotherhuman

Which is why I had “writes” in ” “.

: )

I saw those…

I guess we do know why they don’t read. The two do go together.

Along with Rithmatic!

160 sattv4u2  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 7:29:31am

re: #158 PhillyPretzel

My dad’s favorite comment about that is, “People read but they do not comprehend.”

My dad’s favorite comment was “pull my finger”

((we were a simple folk!!))

//

161 PhillyPretzel  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 7:30:14am

re: #160 sattv4u2

It is okay. I understand. :)

162 ObserverArt  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 7:37:10am

re: #160 sattv4u2

My dad’s favorite comment was “pull my finger”

((we were a simple folk!!))

//

We must have been even more simple…my father never commented. He gave you “the look.”

Being the last of four brothers and 8.5 years behind them in age, they explained to me what was going on. By the time I came along with my brothers educating me, the look was all that was needed.

163 sattv4u2  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 7:45:19am

re: #162 ObserverArt

We must have been even more simple…my father never commented. He gave you “the look.”

Being the last of four brothers and 8.5 years behind them in age, they explained to me what was going on. By the time I came along with my brothers educating me, the look was all that was needed.

Yeah

Dad wasn’t much of a talker either. Hell, I really didn’t even see him that much. he would be up and gone to work before I got up to go to school. he would come home, change and go to his second job while I was at school. By the time he got home at night it was just about my bedtime
Weekends weren’t much better, as he would work many of those also

164 GeneJockey  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 8:02:48am

re: #143 William Barnett-Lewis

Why? The police have no legal responsibilty for you. Despite what people think.

In Warren vs. District of Columbia:

en.wikipedia.org

There are other cases as well. If the police will not protect you, then only you can.

I don’t think “aren’t responsible for protecting you” is a warrantable interpretation of that quote.

They’re not legally liable if they don’t, for the fairly obvious reason that they can’t be everywhere at all times; they can’t always respond in time; and even if they DO get there in time they can’t always save you.

165 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 8:09:42am

re: #143 William Barnett-Lewis

Why? The police have no legal responsibilty for you. Despite what people think.

I’m not disagreeing with that, but so what? How does that connect to CCW use? It’s still more dangerous, for most people, to own a gun than not to.

166 GeneJockey  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 8:11:37am

Further thoughts -

On the one hand, several things are true about gun ownership:
1) if you have a gun in the house, you’re more likely to be shot.
2) most people are shot by people they know.
3) shooting at another person is not as simple as most people who think they’d do it believe it to be. Brandishing a weapon you don’t then use can be worse than not having it at all.
4) shooting and hitting anything across the room with a handgun is not as easy as the movies make it look. I know this from practice at the gun range.
5) violent crime is down hugely from its peak in the early 1990s, despite what people think.

On the other,
1) one of our friends’ father interrupted a home invasion robbery, and killed the home invader, who was also armed. I see that as justified.
2) The police can’t be everywhere, and there are people out there willing to take advantage of that, and some of them are willing to kill you in the process.

At this point, there are so many guns that we’ll never be rid of them. Pandora’s box is already open, and that is the reality we have to live in.

167 Targetpractice  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 8:25:08am

It’s quiet…

168 Justanotherhuman  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 8:26:37am

Vote was 407-0. So, who wasn’t there?

House unanimously approves back pay for furloughed federal workers

nbcpolitics.nbcnews.com

“The House on Saturday unanimously approved legislation to guarantee retroactive pay for furloughed federal workers after the government shutdown ends. The vote was 407-0.

“The White House said Friday that it “strongly supports” the legislation and urged its “swift” passage, even while warning that the single bill alone “will not address the serious consequences of the funding lapse.” The Senate could take it up as soon as today.

“Approximately 800,000 government employees are furloughed during the shutdown.”

169 GeneJockey  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 8:29:27am

re: #167 Targetpractice

It’s quiet…

It’s TOO quiet.

Let’s split up. You check the basement, and I’ll go look in the attic.

170 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 8:30:20am

sltrib.com

The owner of the Hobby Lobby craft store chain, under fire because his stores do not carry Hanukkah merchandise, has apologized for employee comments “that may have offended anyone, especially our Jewish customers and friends.”

Many Jews and others took offense after reading a Sept. 27 blogpost by a Marlboro, N.J., man who wrote that a Hobby Lobby employee told a Jewish woman that “we don’t cater to you people” after she asked if the store carried bar mitzvah cards.

171 Targetpractice  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 8:31:17am

re: #168 Justanotherhuman

Vote was 407-0. So, who wasn’t there?

House unanimously approves back pay for furloughed federal workers

nbcpolitics.nbcnews.com

“The House on Saturday unanimously approved legislation to guarantee retroactive pay for furloughed federal workers after the government shutdown ends. The vote was 407-0.

“The White House said Friday that it “strongly supports” the legislation and urged its “swift” passage, even while warning that the single bill alone “will not address the serious consequences of the funding lapse.” The Senate could take it up as soon as today.

“Approximately 800,000 government employees are furloughed during the shutdown.”

That’ll come as a relief to my folks. Would have be a serious kick in the pants not only for my old man to be furloughed, but then to be told he won’t be getting paid for the period.

172 HappyWarrior  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 8:34:02am

re: #168 Justanotherhuman

Vote was 407-0. So, who wasn’t there?

House unanimously approves back pay for furloughed federal workers

nbcpolitics.nbcnews.com

“The House on Saturday unanimously approved legislation to guarantee retroactive pay for furloughed federal workers after the government shutdown ends. The vote was 407-0.

“The White House said Friday that it “strongly supports” the legislation and urged its “swift” passage, even while warning that the single bill alone “will not address the serious consequences of the funding lapse.” The Senate could take it up as soon as today.

“Approximately 800,000 government employees are furloughed during the shutdown.”

That’s a nice relief. Curious who abstained from voting too.

173 GeneJockey  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 8:35:18am

re: #170 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

sltrib.com

“The statement, however, did not answer whether Hobby Lobby would carry Jewish holiday-related items in the future.”

If there were one nearby, I’d already have boycotted it over the contraception thing. Not that I believe the owners don’t have the right to think contraception is wrong, but because they think what their employees do with the healthcare that their labor purchases is any of their fucking business.

174 Justanotherhuman  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 8:39:47am

re: #166 GeneJockey

Further thoughts -

On the one hand, several things are true about gun ownership:
1) if you have a gun in the house, you’re more likely to be shot.
2) most people are shot by people they know.
3) shooting at another person is not as simple as most people who think they’d do it believe it to be. Brandishing a weapon you don’t then use can be worse than not having it at all.
4) shooting and hitting anything across the room with a handgun is not as easy as the movies make it look. I know this from practice at the gun range.
5) violent crime is down hugely from its peak in the early 1990s, despite what people think.

On the other,
1) one of our friends’ father interrupted a home invasion robbery, and killed the home invader, who was also armed. I see that as justified.
2) The police can’t be everywhere, and there are people out there willing to take advantage of that, and some of them are willing to kill you in the process.

At this point, there are so many guns that we’ll never be rid of them. Pandora’s box is already open, and that is the reality we have to live in.

The only 2 times I might have needed a gun, I was too young and inexperienced to have used one, and would have been overpowered anyway; one time was in a foreign country.

Also, at the time, killing your rapist(s) was not considered “self defense” because women weren’t usually believed, and were attacked on the stand as far as their own reputation was concerned, esp if you were divorced or dated regularly, whether you slept with them or not. You could be sentenced to prison for using deadly force to protect yourself in that kind of situation, whether it was a stranger, someone you knew, or your own husband. You were supposed to just “get over it”.

Otherwise, I have never had need of a gun, either to protect myself, my kids (or anyone else), or my home in 50 yrs.

175 Targetpractice  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 9:12:38am

I see francis is still derping it up in the Pages. Oy.

176 GeneJockey  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 9:15:39am

re: #175 Targetpractice

I see francis is still derping it up in the Pages. Oy.

After briefly attempting to engage him/her/it, I conclude there’s no point. Garden variety wingnut troll.

177 Carlos Danger  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 9:24:11am
Texas Gov. Rick Perry (R) traveled to California to contrast that state’s “big government, protectionist, nanny state” with his “limited-government, unsubsidized, freedom state,” the Los Angeles Times reports.

…

178 Targetpractice  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 9:26:15am

re: #177 Carlos Danger

…

Which of course is why so many high-tech industries have parked themselves in Silicon Valley, while the best Texas can do is beg.

179 Justanotherhuman  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 9:33:13am

A little more on the self-immolation in DC.

DC police spokesman: Man who set himself on fire on the National Mall has died of his injuries

washingtonpost.com

“The man’s name and age were not immediately known, and his burns were so severe that authorities will need to use DNA and dental records to identify him, Alali said.

“The man poured a can of gasoline on himself in the center portion of the mall Friday afternoon. He then set himself on fire, with passing joggers taking off their shirts to help douse the flames. Police had said he was conscious and breathing at the scene, but he was airlifted to MedStar Washington Hospital Center.

(snip)

“Lt. Pamela Smith of the U.S. Park said she was unaware that he carried any signs or had articulated a cause. One witness, Katy Scheflen, said that she saw a tripod set up near the man but that she did not hear him say anything intelligible before he set himself on fire. But it was unclear if the man was filming the incident.”

Very sad. Seems to me he probably was trying to make a point, but I’m wondering what’s on the “tripod” (camera?) near him—was it his?

You don’t travel to DC to set yourself on fire unless you are protesting something.

180 Carlos Danger  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 9:35:23am

The House GOP’s 80-20 Problem

But in 2011, North Carolina Republicans used their new-found legislative majority and redistricting authority to carve craft-brewing and locavore-liberal Asheville out of the 11th CD. Under the new lines, Obama’s 2008 share fell from 47 percent to 40 percent, and the seat’s Cook Partisan Voter Index (PVI) score rose from R+6 to R+13. Rather than run a race uphill both ways, Shuler retired.

Enter Meadows, a real estate investor who relocated to North Carolina from Florida in 1986 and had no prior experience in elected office. Meadows pumped $255,000 of his own money into the primary and in June 2012, promised a GOP crowd that “We’ll send [President Obama] back to Kenya, or wherever it is.”

…

As it turns out, there are a lot more House Republicans like Meadows than there are like Boehner. Just 37 of today’s 232 House Republicans like Boehner - or 16 percent - were around for the last government shutdown in 1995-1996.

Meanwhile, 111 House Republicans like Meadows - or 48 percent - were first elected after President George W. Bush left office, mostly by running against not only Democrats but their own party’s leadership on spending issues.

Some interesting hard stats at the bottom of the article.

181 Iwouldprefernotto  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 9:44:35am

re: #177 Carlos Danger

..Texas Gov. Rick Perry (R) traveled to California to contrast that state’s “big government, protectionist, nanny state” with his “limited-government, unsubsidized, freedom state,” the Los Angeles Times reports.
…

Gov. Perry, how many men died in that unregulated fertilizer factory?

182 Targetpractice  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 9:47:46am

re: #181 Iwouldprefernotto

Better yet, what has Texas’ government done to address the regulatory foul-ups that allowed that explosion? Answer: Not a damned thing.

183 Sionainn  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 9:49:33am

re: #176 GeneJockey

After briefly attempting to engage him/her/it, I conclude there’s no point. Garden variety wingnut troll.

Oh, he’s a real guy. Here’s a local article about him. He’s even been on Fox and Friends.

184 GOPHostage#25698724  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 9:49:53am

Some time ago I Paged an incident where a French Jeweler ran outside and shot a fleeing robber. That was not self defense. Been reading up on the SUV biker gang incident. This was clearly self defense AFAIK, and a case where it’s too bad the SUV driver had no weapon or device adequate to protect himself or his family. A gun would have been totally justified in the hands of the SUV driver. Paged.

185 Targetpractice  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 9:56:00am

Think a new question should be asked now that Republicans keep pushing so hard for negotiations: Who is it they want Obama or Red to negotiate with? It’s been obvious for months now that Boehner doesn’t have the pull to get any deal that isn’t 100% in favor of Republicans to pass, ditto with Cantor and McConnell.

186 GOPHostage#25698724  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 9:57:06am

re: #185 Targetpractice

Think a new question should be asked now that Republicans keep pushing so hard for negotiations: Who is it they want Obama or Red to negotiate with? It’s been obvious for months now that Boehner doesn’t have the pull to get any deal that isn’t 100% in favor of Republicans to pass, ditto with Cantor and McConnell.

It’s like negotiating with terrorists like AQ. Who really has the pull to make any deal stick? Maybe no one.

187 Targetpractice  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 9:58:47am

re: #186 Political Atheist

It’s like negotiating with terrorists like AQ. Who really has the pull to make any deal stick? Maybe no one.

And better yet, even if one of them could come to a deal that would pass both houses, what guarantee do we have that they won’t just shuck the deal come next year, when they’re under pressure from TPers to tighten the screws again?

188 Iwouldprefernotto  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 10:02:02am

re: #187 Targetpractice

And better yet, even if one of them could come to a deal that would pass both houses, what guarantee do we have that they won’t just shuck the deal come next year, when they’re under pressure from TPers to tighten the screws again?

I think the Democrats should be pushing for an up or down vote on a clean CR. Nothing more, nothing less.

189 GOPHostage#25698724  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 10:02:54am

re: #187 Targetpractice

And better yet, even if one of them could come to a deal that would pass both houses, what guarantee do we have that they won’t just shuck the deal come next year, when they’re under pressure from TPers to tighten the screws again?

Hence we need the “grand bargain” as it has been called. A long term deal on spending, taxes and entitlements.

190 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 10:04:21am

re: #184 Political Atheist

Some time ago I Paged an incident where a French Jeweler ran outside and shot a fleeing robber. That was not self defense. Been reading up on the SUV biker gang incident. This was clearly self defense AFAIK, and a case where it’s too bad the SUV driver had no weapon or device adequate to protect himself or his family. A gun would have been totally justified in the hands of the SUV driver. Paged.

And it might not have helped in the least if he had one, too. Guns aren’t magic.

191 Targetpractice  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 10:07:58am

re: #188 Iwouldprefernotto

I think the Democrats should be pushing for an up or down vote on a clean CR. Nothing more, nothing less.

They should and very likely will, I’m just enjoying poking holes in the “negotiate” argument that wingnuts seem to have wrapped their lips around and now are sucking for all they’re worth on.

192 Killgore Trout  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 10:09:10am

re: #179 Justanotherhuman

Sad story. The only thing I can think of that might be a semi-coherent political motivation is the Arab spring was kicked off in Tunisia by a poor fruit vendor self immolating. Someone may have thought they could do the same and inspire a popular uprising. However, I think this is probably just another mentally ill person. The round the clock fear mongering and doomsday crap from the media can be very disorienting for people with mental problems.

193 GOPHostage#25698724  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 10:12:00am

re: #190 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

And it might not have helped in the least if he had one, too. Guns aren’t magic.

So what? Nobody sensible claims any magic. Want to talk magic? Lets talk about a magic wand that could have impelled the cop to step up and serve public safety.

If your point is that guns should never be there because they might not help, I find that terribly wrong. If you want a clearer case of a moment where lethal force was more justified, good luck finding it. This one is pretty damn clear as far as available information goes.

Gun, knife, bat, real L.E. taser, whatever. In this case they are all the same. Perhaps adequate to the task of family defense. This poor guy had none of those things. All he had was the van, and even that came up short. You realize that when a child is visible to the attacker the defender has more room to make those tough judgement calls right?

194 Justanotherhuman  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 10:12:12am

re: #192 Killgore Trout

Sad story. The only thing I can think of that might be a semi-coherent political motivation is the Arab spring was kicked off in Tunisia by a poor fruit vendor self immolating. Someone may have thought they could do the same and inspire a popular uprising. However, I think this is probably just another mentally ill person. The round the clock fear mongering and doomsday crap from the media can be very disorienting for people with mental problems.

We probably won’t know for some time anyway. Perhaps his family, if he has any, or friends/neighbors, would have a clue, or maybe not.

195 Sionainn  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 10:14:34am

re: #193 Political Atheist

So what? Nobody sensible claims any magic. Want to talk magic? Lets talk about a magic wand that could have impelled the cop to step up and serve public safety.

If your point is that guns should never be there because they might not help, I find that terribly wrong. If you want a clearer case of a moment where lethal force was more justified, good luck finding it. This one is pretty damn clear as far as available information goes.

Gun, knife, bat, real L.E. taser, whatever. In this case they are all the same. Perhaps adequate to the task of family defense. This poor guy had none of those things. All he had was the van, and even that came up short. You realize that when a child is visible to the attacker the defender has more room to make those tough judgement calls right?

I think a vehicle is a better weapon than a gun. He probably could have run over more of the bastards, but was probably already freaked out about running someone done just moments earlier. Yeah, don’t think a gun or any other weapon would have served him at that point.

196 Gus  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 10:19:51am

And so begins the infomercial hour on Twitter.

Sometimes I wonder if many of these peeps are paid for their Tweets.

197 GOPHostage#25698724  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 10:21:58am

re: #195 Sionainn

I think a vehicle is a better weapon than a gun. He probably could have run over more of the bastards, but was probably already freaked out about running someone done just moments earlier. Yeah, don’t think a gun or any other weapon would have served him at that point.

At the end when the attempt to flee failed and that one biker smashed the window out, then right there close range, bang. It’s always possible to miss. But that likelihood is somewhat proportionate to range. Point blank? Probably a hit or even better the visible gun buys the poor guy time to actually escape without a shot fired. We can’t know that (and we need not really)but we can see what circumstances make lethal force justified. This is not about guns as much as this poor guy had nothing that would work. Not even with a cop right there.

With an attacker at your front and your two year old behind you force is perfectly appropriate. Lets not pretend guns are “magic” evil either. It’s just a device that improves the odds for a person skilled with it. A real cop strength taser pistol might have done it. But wait, those are illegal for most of us too. Go figure.

The “likely” scenario did not happen. That was a fatal crash while fleeing with a dead family and the attackers spinning the story.

198 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 10:22:03am

re: #193 Political Atheist

So what? Nobody sensible claims any magic. Want to talk magic? Lets talk about a magic wand that could have impelled the cop to step up and serve public safety.

I think that the cop should have acted.

If your point is that guns should never be there because they might not help, I find that terribly wrong. If you want a clearer case of a moment where lethal force was more justified, good luck finding it. This one is pretty damn clear as far as available information goes.

You keep mixing up ‘justified’ and ‘would help’. I don’t know why.

Gun, knife, bat, real L.E. taser, whatever. In this case they are all the same.

He was being attacked by a group. I don’t think it’s likely much of anything would have helped him in that situation. Sure, I wish he had something to protect himself. I don’t think it would have worked.

. You realize that when a child is visible to the attacker the defender has more room to make those tough judgement calls right?

No clue what you’re asking me here. Are you somehow under the impression that I think if the guy did have a gun he didn’t have the right to use it or something?

199 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 10:23:31am

re: #197 Political Atheist

You’re assuming that he’s able to retrieve the gun from whatever safe place he’s stored it in, take it out, and be ready to use it shortly after a vehicle accident. That would require a bucketload of training for most people to respond that way.

200 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 10:24:46am

re: #192 Killgore Trout

Sad story. The only thing I can think of that might be a semi-coherent political motivation is the Arab spring was kicked off in Tunisia by a poor fruit vendor self immolating. Someone may have thought they could do the same and inspire a popular uprising. However, I think this is probably just another mentally ill person. The round the clock fear mongering and doomsday crap from the media can be very disorienting for people with mental problems.

Once again, Killgore, what doomsday crap?

If it’s that the shutdown has already had huge, terrible effects on the US’s scientific research, that’s true.

if it’s that the shutdown is compromising the ability of government agencies to safeguard people, then that’s true, too.

If it’s that a default would have literally unimaginably bad consequences, then that’s true too.

Please tell us what you consider ‘fearmongering’ instead of being so typically vague.

201 Romantic Heretic  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 10:25:15am

re: #105 Lidane

Also, anyone focusing on the WW2 memorial being closed while ignoring how WIC, Head Start and the VA are being directly affected by the shutdown is a small-minded, easily manipulated dupe. If you care more about war memorials than actual, breathing people that are being hurt, I don’t know what to say to you.

I do. I won’t because it would be impolite, loud as well laced with blasphemies and obscenities.

Every time I read about the teahadis these days I think, in a Sam Elliot voice, “Boy, you are a special kind of stupid.”

202 GOPHostage#25698724  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 10:31:25am

re: #198 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Until you said so I had no idea whether you agreed or not this was a moment where force was justified, even perhaps compelled. The fact that whatever device might not help is completely beside the point and irrelevant. Perfection or a perfect effectiveness rate is not required. Taking the defender from helpless to having a fighting or fleeing chance is the point.

If guns are so unreliable, why don’t we give ordinary street police something more effective? Well that would be because they are quite effective when needed. They are the most effective tool in certain circumstances. I’m looking forward to phasers on stun. Tasers are a fair try. But until then guns and other devices are what we have.

Even groups respond to a gun. All that guy needed was time to flee. Again perfection is not the standard that has merit. The proper standard would be “reasonably effective”. Claiming a higher standard smacks of a poison pill standard, designed to underestimate the utility of the tool.

203 GOPHostage#25698724  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 10:37:16am

re: #199 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

You’re assuming that he’s able to retrieve the gun from whatever safe place he’s stored it in, take it out, and be ready to use it shortly after a vehicle accident. That would require a bucketload of training for most people to respond that way.

Well the incident did go on for quite some time. And you are speculating in such a way as to unfairly dismiss the possibility. It does not take a ton of training to hit at point blank range at that late moment in the incident.

I can just as easily speculate that biker would have backed off at the sight of the gun in hand. That’s all speculation. I just say the poor guy deserved a better chance than he had. An effective device for that would be a weapon, likely a gun.

204 GOPHostage#25698724  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 10:43:39am

re: #199 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Put yourself in his spot. What would you want to have available given escape has failed, no police are apparent, and the attacker is forcing his way into your van with your wife & child? What would you want, assuming you had the training to go with it whatever that might be? I would want my pistol. That’s just me. You?

We should take this to that Page. That way our points stay with it and can be easily read later. I’m going to try and paste what we have so far in.

205 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 10:45:59am

re: #202 Political Atheist

Until you said so I had no idea whether you agreed or not this was a moment where force was justified, even perhaps compelled.

Well, he’d already almost killed a dude, so obviously things had escalated heavily. As I understand it, the bikers were fucking up his car and then he drove over one of them after panicking.

The fact that whatever device might not help is completely beside the point and irrelevant.

It’s totally to the point of whether it would helped him, actually.

If guns are so unreliable, why don’t we give ordinary street police something more effective?

Guns are reasonably reliable if you train really hard on them, but even in the case of the cops, who do train really hard, they wind up shooting the wrong person/themselves a lot.

Even groups respond to a gun. All that guy needed was time to flee.

The video is down for me, so I don’t know the final situation he ended up in. What was blocking in his SUV?

206 b.d.  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 10:48:55am

Here’s one way around a shutdown:

207 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 10:51:50am

re: #204 Political Atheist

Put yourself in his spot. What would you want to have available given escape has failed, no police are apparent, and the attacker is forcing his way into your van with your wife & child?

A big dog.

What would you want, assuming you had the training to go with it whatever that might be?

That latter part is a gigantic addition. To be trained to the level where you could effectively use a gun in a wild, panicky situation would require a serious time commitment. Obviously, right when the biker gang is attacking you want to be a highly-trained pistol marksman, just like when the car breaks down in the desert you want to be a gimcrack mechanic, or when your kid breaks his leg you want to be a trained EMT.

But there’s not enough time in the day to acquire the training to face every emergency situation. So I’m not going to go out and get a gun and spend the hours a week training it’d be necessary to use it tactically on the extremely remote chance something similar happens to me. It’s not rational or reasonable, it’d be a panicky, totally irrational reaction. I’m also not going to get a big dog.

I also find it annoying that you always decide we need to cut arguments short. I have no idea why you do it.

208 ProTARDISLiberal  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 10:56:55am

re: #207 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Also, 90% sure that the SUV is a better weapon against that high number of thugs.

If he had just swerved into the group, that likely would have ended his problems.

209 GOPHostage#25698724  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 10:58:11am

re: #205 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Well, he’d already almost killed a dude, so obviously things had escalated heavily. As I understand it, the bikers were fucking up his car and then he drove over one of them after panicking.

It’s totally to the point of whether it would helped him, actually.

Guns are reasonably reliable if you train really hard on them, but even in the case of the cops, who do train really hard, they wind up shooting the wrong person/themselves a lot.

The video is down for me, so I don’t know the final situation he ended up in. What was blocking in his SUV?

The bikers engaged in a possibly deadly pursuit. Ran him to ground. Even if he did hit one of them, this was for the police to deal with. The bikers have no right to take the law unto themselves. No right to pursue beyong calling it in to the cops. That’s it full stop.

Perhaps you should take a little time and scan the available videos. Except I thought we already agreed this guy was in a moment when he had every right to defend his family. Right? Or not? If right, that is all over with. The absence of an effective defensive device cost this man a beating and could have cost his whole family their lives.

Ordinary street cops do not spend a huge amount of time on gun fight training, Their skills are significant but humble. SWAT and Police competition shooters are the ones with a ton of training. Many of the multi day CCW classes exceed what regular cops get. Then cops have to shoot a few rounds each month to maintain. Not that big a deal at all.

210 GOPHostage#25698724  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 11:00:13am

re: #207 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

A big dog.

That latter part is a gigantic addition. To be trained to the level where you could effectively use a gun in a wild, panicky situation would require a serious time commitment. Obviously, right when the biker gang is attacking you want to be a highly-trained pistol marksman, just like when the car breaks down in the desert you want to be a gimcrack mechanic, or when your kid breaks his leg you want to be a trained EMT.

But there’s not enough time in the day to acquire the training to face every emergency situation. So I’m not going to go out and get a gun and spend the hours a week training it’d be necessary to use it tactically on the extremely remote chance something similar happens to me. It’s not rational or reasonable, it’d be a panicky, totally irrational reaction.

I also find it annoying that you always decide we need to cut arguments short. I have no idea why you do it.

Try to understand when I say a person should have a gun, I don’t mention “and the training” for simple brevity. A big dog would have been freaking great. But did you mention if the dog was trained? That big dog may be whimpering in the back.

211 wrenchwench  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 11:01:19am

See a tiny frog protect his offspring from carnivorous wasps.

channel.nationalgeographic.com

212 sattv4u2  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 11:02:28am

re: #209 Political Atheist

Ordinary street cops do not spend a huge amount of time on gun fight training, Their skills are significant but humble

exactly

How many times have we seen stories/ videos of police shooting at close to if not point blank range and hitting nothing but air

213 The Mountain That Blogs  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 11:04:46am

re: #212 sattv4u2

How many times have we seen stories/ videos of police shooting at close to if not point blank range and hitting nothing but air

Or bystanders. The guy who shot someone in front of the Empire State Building a few months back comes to mind.

214 GOPHostage#25698724  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 11:05:08am

re: #207 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

I also find it annoying that you always decide we need to cut arguments short. I have no idea why you do it.

Misplaced annoyance is not my responsibility. But consider this-It might not take more than a few comments to illuminate our opinions. I already suggested we take this to the relevant Page, which you ignored. Fine. But take a look at the page. I pasted in the links up to a moment ago.

In no way does that appear to cutting an argument short. Sometimes you have more time than I for this, For instance I have to get downtown for a video shoot and voice over. I leave shortly. You do have the advantage that way. More time to question and pull at the edges of my points to expose flaws.

215 Charles Johnson  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 11:07:23am
216 dog philosopher  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 11:09:16am

somebody or something added this to my index page:

geovisit();

wassup w that?

217 wrenchwench  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 11:09:54am

re: #215 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Godzilla’s less scary when playing the guitar.

218 Carlos Danger  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 11:09:58am

The car owner having a gun would have been utterly irrelevant if each one of the bikers had one as well. If we’re assuming that gun rights apply equally here, there’s no legal reason against them having guns either.

219 jaunte  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 11:10:10am

translate.google.com

“… the commandos trying to get hold of a foreign fighter Shebab, which claimed responsibility for the terrorist attack on a shopping center in Nairobi (Kenya) from 21 September. “

220 GOPHostage#25698724  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 11:10:36am

re: #212 sattv4u2


Ordinary street cops do not spend a huge amount of time on gun fight training, Their skills are significant but humble

exactly

How many times have we seen stories/ videos of police shooting at close to if not point blank range and hitting nothing but air

And that my friend established the legal accepted standard for gun skills. Yup guns can go wrong. People can miss. But cops and civilians save themselves tens of thousands of times every year with them. This represents skills levels all over the map.

But demanding CCW holders be better than street cops or they may not have the guns is just another poison pill policy. IMO Obdicut advocates standards at that level. Designed to deter from ownership, not improve skills.

221 Dr Lizardo  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 11:11:07am

re: #217 wrenchwench

Godzilla’s less scary when playing the guitar.

And when he’s considerably smaller as well.

222 sattv4u2  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 11:12:35am

re: #215 Charles Johnson

“Now that right there is funny,, I don’t care who you are!!”

On another note,,, Wifey got me an early b’day present. Tickets to see Joe Bonamassa in Atlanta Nov 23 at The Fox Theatre,, COMPLETE with backstage passes

Want me to say “HEY” for you !??!

223 sattv4u2  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 11:13:13am

re: #221 Dr Lizardo

And when he’s considerably smaller as well.

Like De Niro at the end of The Raging Bull, he bulked up for the part

224 GOPHostage#25698724  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 11:13:21am

re: #218 Carlos Danger

The car owner having a gun would have been utterly irrelevant if each one of the bikers had one as well. If we’re assuming that gun rights apply equally here, there’s no legal reason against them having guns either.

Not so. The attacker never has any gun use rights. Only self defense justifies gun use in this kind of thing. (Leaving out hunting sports etc) Every biker had the option to stop and call cops. That van driver, not so much. Just like unarmed assault, the rights fall to the defender, the jail sentence on the attacker.

New point-Missing data-911 tapes if any.

225 GOPHostage#25698724  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 11:14:35am

Guys thanks it’s been fun but I do have to leave for work. Ballard Light Capture is the smallest of businesses. Since I need to hire a sound guy BTW I better get to it. The coffers are hungry.

Obdi, sorry if I have not responded enough but gotta go.

226 sattv4u2  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 11:16:01am

re: #225 Political Atheist

Guys thanks it’s been fun but I do have to leave for work. Ballard Light Capture is the smallest of businesses. Since I need to hire a sound guy BTW I better get to it. The coffers are hungry.

be good,, and say HI to The lady

227 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 11:25:35am

re: #209 Political Atheist

The bikers engaged in a possibly deadly pursuit. Ran him to ground. Even if he did hit one of them, this was for the police to deal with. The bikers have no right to take the law unto themselves. No right to pursue beyong calling it in to the cops. That’s it full stop.

Why the fuck are you telling me this? What the hell have i said that disagrees with this?

Perhaps you should take a little time and scan the available videos. Except I thought we already agreed this guy was in a moment when he had every right to defend his family. Right? Or not? If right, that is all over with. The absence of an effective defensive device cost this man a beating and could have cost his whole family their lives.

Yes, we are in agreement, so why the fuck are you going on about it? Why do you create these strawmen?

Ordinary street cops do not spend a huge amount of time on gun fight training, Their skills are significant but humble. SWAT and Police competition shooters are the ones with a ton of training. Many of the multi day CCW classes exceed what regular cops get. Then cops have to shoot a few rounds each month to maintain. Not that big a deal at all.

Yes. In order for this guy to use his gun effectively in a confused and panicky situation he’d have had to have taken and maintained a lot of training.

It is totally unreasonable for ordinary people to go around acting as though this is something with a high likelihood of happening to them, just as it’s unreasonable to train to become a paramedic, a mechanic, a firefighter, etc.

You really hit on a key honest statement when you started talking about ‘training’. This is the main thing that annoys me when people say “He’d have been better off with a gun.” No. He’d have been better off with a gun and sufficient training to use it well.

228 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Sat, Oct 5, 2013 11:26:43am

re: #225 Political Atheist

It’s not you not responding that bugs me, it’s the pathetic strawmen you erect of my positions and the really contemptible positions you accuse me of holding. It fucking sucks that you do that and you should stop.


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