Put the Quran Down [Mr. President]: Larry Klayman at Million Veterans March

And to “come out with his hands up.”
Gus
Wingnuts • Views: 28,714

“Put the Quran Down [Mr. President].”
— Larry Klayman at Million Veterans March

Video

“I call upon all of you to wage a second American nonviolent revolution, to use civil disobedience, and to demand that this president leave town, to get up, to put the Quran down, to get up off his knees, and to figuratively come out with his hands up.”

From: Rallier tells Obama to ‘put the Quran down’
by CNN’s Ashley Killough and Shannon Travis and Brian Rokus

Related:

Update - Added Youtube video clip starting at time of “Quran” statement by Klayman:

Youtube Video

Jump to bottom

258 comments
1 CriticalDragon1177  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 7:02:23pm

Gus,

That man dares to claim that he’s following in the footsteps of Mahatma Ghandi and Martin Luther king. Both of them would be upset by that, King especially

2 CriticalDragon1177  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 7:04:10pm

Gus,

I have to wonder what king would say to Larry Klayman if he were still alive.

3 Gus  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 7:08:12pm

re: #2 CriticalDragon1177

Gus,

I have to wonder what king would say to Larry Klayman if he were still alive.

MLK would likely not comment on such an absurd statement by Klayman.

4 CriticalDragon1177  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 7:21:31pm

Gus

I think was better before you added that second clip, you don’t even get the experience of how insanely stupid it is, unless you watch the whole thing.

5 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 7:24:17pm

Congrats on the promotion Gus. It looks like you are going to get the high tweet award.

6 Gus  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 7:25:48pm

re: #5 PhillyPretzel

Congrats on the promotion Gus. It looks like you are going to get the high tweet award.

Thanks and thanks Charles.

7 PT Barnum  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 7:27:18pm

Are we approaching the wingularity?

8 simoom  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 7:27:19pm

Gus, this one might be worth adding. Deserves some attention as it’s an implicit threat:

9 Targetpractice  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 7:28:06pm

I cannot, for the life of me, remember the Left in this country ever plumbing such depths during the Bush years. There was some stupid shit said, but never to this extent.

10 PT Barnum  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 7:28:53pm

re: #8 simoom

A whole lot of penguins trying to push each other off the ice floe to see if there are any secret service or sea lions waiting for them.

11 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 7:29:45pm

re: #9 Targetpractice

Hate brings out the worst in people.

12 PT Barnum  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 7:29:51pm

re: #9 Targetpractice

I cannot, for the life of me, remember the Left in this country ever plumbing such depths during the Bush years. There was some stupid shit said, but never to this extent.

That’s because the left for the most part believes in using the levers of government to solve problems. The right wing believes in second amendment solutions to get their way, solutions be damned.

13 Gus  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 7:30:27pm

re: #9 Targetpractice

I cannot, for the life of me, remember the Left in this country ever plumbing such depths during the Bush years. There was some stupid shit said, but never to this extent.

Some say peak wingnut is impossible.

14 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 7:31:39pm

HURR HURR HOUSE GOP IS VOTING AGAINST RAISING TEH DEBT CEILING BECAUSE IN 2006 TAHT’S WHUT OBAMA & TEH DEMOCRATZ DID!!!11!!!!1!!!

No really that is what the wingnuts are all saying on Teh Twitters. Crashing the economy just for revenge.

15 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 7:32:57pm
16 Gus  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 7:34:07pm

So what is this. The GOP has decided that they want to govern by temper tantrum?

17 GeneJockey  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 7:35:27pm

re: #9 Targetpractice

I cannot, for the life of me, remember the Left in this country ever plumbing such depths during the Bush years. There was some stupid shit said, but never to this extent.

Wingnuts can always find some leftwing loudmouth to point to, but the big difference is that they aren’t Governors, Congressman, and Senators, or prominent national pundits, or grifters that a significant portion of the left want to run for President.

18 b.d.  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 7:36:09pm

OBAMA DIDN’T PUT DOWN THE KORAN OR COME OUT WITH HIS HANDS UP…..HE DIDN’T DO EITHER OF THESE THINGS….HE WON’T COMPROMISE!!1!

19 GeneJockey  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 7:36:43pm

re: #16 Gus

So what is this. The GOP has decided that they want to govern by temper tantrum?

Well, yeah. Of course.

20 PhillyPretzel  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 7:37:31pm

re: #18 b.d.

OBAMA DIDN’T PUT DOWN THE KORAN OR COME OUT WITH HIS HANDS UP…..HE DIDN’T DO EITHER OF THESE THINGS….HE WON’T COMPROMISE!!1!

Fixed

21 b.d.  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 7:38:18pm

re: #20 PhillyPretzel

thnx

22 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 7:38:43pm

You see that expression on Ted Cruz’s face a lot, as if he’s just seen something that to him is soul crushingly tragic. Like his wife making love to a real man, or the White House inhabited by a black President.

Either that or the Devil licked his butthole, could go either way.

23 Stanley Sea  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 7:38:44pm

One of Sullivan’s readers advised what the white flag with the green arrow “appeal to heaven” represented:

Ch. 14 of Locke’s Second Treatise, which describes the nature and extent of executive power

It is clear that “appeal to heaven” in the text means revolution or rebellion. When the usual, political channels — i.e. earthly channels — are exhausted, then you can revolt in the name of the “laws of nature” or the “rights” we all possess and which no “government” can take away.

dish.andrewsullivan.com

24 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 7:39:53pm

re: #15 Vicious Babushka

[Embedded content]

I’m in love with Imani.

25 Targetpractice  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 7:40:27pm

re: #17 GeneJockey

Wingnuts can always find some leftwing loudmouth to point to, but the big difference is that they aren’t Governors, Congressman, and Senators, or prominent national pundits, or grifters that a significant portion of the left want to run for President.

That’s not to say we didn’t have some real prizes who ran and on occasion won. It’s just that they were A) Isolated cases and B) tended to be ostracized when they acted out. Nuts like Cynthia McKinney and Dennis Kucinich served not because there was significant “grassroots” support for them, but because they hailed from relatively safe districts.

26 Charles Johnson  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 7:44:01pm
27 CriticalDragon1177  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 7:44:19pm

re: #13 Gus

Some say peak wingnut is impossible.

If peak wingnut is possible and we haven’t already seen it, I don’t want to see it.

28 Tigger2005  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 7:44:25pm

I need to vent. I am angry and scared and I have a stress headache. I really believed Congress was going to do the sane thing. They briefly seemed to be headed in that direction. But now the apocalyptic lunacy is back with a vengeance. I have an icy feeling in the pit of my stomach. We are about to watch a minority of right wing, ignorant religious crazies destroy our economy for whatever insane fucking reason they can think of…End Times, racist hatred of the President, an excuse to shoot people in the street or live out their survivalist fantasies, I don’t know. I don’t recognize my country anymore. And worse, I am beginning to hate my Republican friends and family members. I hate them for refusing to see what their Party has become. I hate them for the way they are just ignoring what is happening. I hate the way they are never going to admit they helped bring this about. Because if not for mainstream Republicans going along with it, the Tea Party would not have gotten anywhere.

29 Gus  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 7:45:16pm

re: #27 CriticalDragon1177

If peak wingnut is possible and we haven’t already seen it, I don’t want to see it.

When it happens we’ll be on the other side of the universe and can’t get out.

//

30 Robert O.  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 7:47:05pm

I will assume that by “million”, they got a turnout of about a thousand. i.e., for any crowd size claimed by the Tea Party, the actual figure is around the square root.

31 Gus  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 7:47:42pm

1,000,000 (+/- 999,500)

32 Gus  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 7:51:15pm

I personally think this whole “One Million ______ March” thing has gotten absurd regardless.

33 BongCrodny  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 7:51:31pm
Update - Added Youtube video clip starting at time of “Quran” statement by Klayman:

I’d like to offer my expert analysis of that video clip.

White guy, white guy, white guy, white guy, white guy, white guy, white guy, white guy, white guy, white guy, white guy, and white guy.

34 PT Barnum  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 7:52:33pm

The question is which Republican elder statesman will finally decide he’s had enough and call a nut a nut?

35 jaunte  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 7:53:05pm

Todd Kincannon is going for some kind of racist freak award today on Suey Park’s timeline
twitter.com

36 ObserverArt  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 7:53:06pm

re: #9 Targetpractice

I cannot, for the life of me, remember the Left in this country ever plumbing such depths during the Bush years. There was some stupid shit said, but never to this extent.

It was the Chimp images. I know it!!!

37 PT Barnum  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 7:53:10pm

re: #34 PT Barnum

The question is which Republican elder statesman will finally decide he’s had enough and call a nut a nut?

Oh that’s right John McCain supports Al Quaida now because he called the teabaggers a bunch of whacko birds

38 Gus  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 7:55:39pm
39 Hercules Grytpype-Thynneghazi  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 7:56:37pm

re: #18 b.d.

OBAMA DIDN’T PUT DOWN THE KORAN OR COME OUT WITH HIS HANDS UP…..HE DIDN’T DO EITHER OF THESE THINGS….HE WON’T COMPROMISE!!1!

If you listen closely, Klayman actually called on the President to come up with your hands out. He didn’t do that either.

40 Kragar  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 7:57:08pm

Lets call it what it really was.

The dozens Wingnut Veterans March.

41 bratwurst  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 7:57:18pm

re: #32 Gus

I personally think this whole “One Million ______ March” thing has gotten absurd regardless.

Especially when you consider that the next “Million ______ March” that actually attracts anywhere close to a million souls will be the first!

42 RealityBasedSteve  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 7:57:58pm

re: #35 jaunte

Todd Kincannon is going for some kind of racist freak award today on Suey Park’s timeline
twitter.com

I just flipped over to see that… WOW!!!! Just more stuff that needs to get put out there, how can anybody not look at that and say “this guy is an idiot”, and I’m probably offending the idiot community who is saying “he’s not one of us”

RBS

43 freetoken  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 7:58:14pm

They’re all PLANTS!!! as usual

44 jaunte  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 7:58:30pm
“This fraudster, who stole the presidency and has done so much harm, will finally know that his time has come to leave his perverted, Islamic concept of Mecca, our nation’s hallowed capital,” Klayman wrote…

splcenter.org

45 ObserverArt  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 7:59:32pm

re: #16 Gus

So what is this. The GOP has decided that they want to govern by temper tantrum?

They hold their breath and cause everyone else to pass out.

Hell will be paid when everyone regains consciousness.

46 calochortus  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 8:00:27pm

re: #28 Tigger2005

If I had to guess, and of course I do just have to guess, I’d say Tuesday would be a likely day for something to happen. I don’t believe the majority of the Republicans want to destroy the country and I truly don’t think Boehner wants a destroyed global economy to be his legacy.

47 BongCrodny  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 8:01:19pm

re: #38 Gus

[Embedded content]

Those re some pretty solid “It’s the Republicans’ fault” numbers. I think Reid will gladly take one for the team given the other results.

48 jhrhv  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 8:01:36pm

re: #31 Gus

All the pictures I’ve seen are zoomed in so you can’t tell how embarrassingly few people actually were there.

Any sane person might take that hint that in a nation of 300 Million when you only draw a few hundred people that maybe you’re not actually on the popular side of this issue. In a democracy that should matter.

These people obviously don’t care about real democracy.

In bizarro land they think they are the sane ones and the other 300 Million people are wrong.

49 Belafon  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 8:02:32pm

re: #38 Gus

I guess you would have to see a comparison relative to before the shutdown because I don’t see much reason for the difference between Obama and Reid. They’ve both been saying and doing basically the same thing.

50 Kragar  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 8:03:07pm

About this time last year…

Allegations uncovered that right wing pundit Larry Klayman sexually abused his own children

The issues raised by Klayman involve credibility assessments made by the magistrate. Klayman challenges these findings. The magistrate heard evidence from the children’s pediatrician who reported allegations of sexual abuse to children services, and from a social worker at children services who found that sexual abuse was ‘indicated.’ Although the social worker’s finding was later changed to ‘unsubstantiated’ when Klayman appealed, the magistrate explained that the supervisor who changed the social worker’s finding did not testify. The magistrate pointed out that he was obligated to make his own independent analysis based upon the parties and the evidence before him. In doing so, the magistrate found on more than one occasion [Klayman] act[ed] in a grossly inappropriate manner with the children. His conduct may not have been sexual in the sense that he intended to or did derive any sexual pleasure from it or that he intended his children would. That, however, does not mean that he did not engage in those acts or that his behavior was proper.

51 ObserverArt  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 8:04:53pm

re: #32 Gus

I personally think this whole “One Million ______ March” thing has gotten absurd regardless.

One million too many.

52 PT Barnum  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 8:05:17pm

re: #50 Kragar

About this time last year…

Allegations uncovered that right wing pundit Larry Klayman sexually abused his own children

why does this not surprise me at all?

53 Gus  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 8:05:46pm

re: #51 ObserverArt

One million too many.

I’m still recovering from 2012. Wanted a break from this craziness.

54 jhrhv  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 8:07:13pm

re: #50 Kragar

About this time last year…

Allegations uncovered that right wing pundit Larry Klayman sexually abused his own children

Some say you can judge people by their heroes.

55 andres  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 8:07:26pm

re: #40 Kragar

Lets call it what it really was.

The dozens Wingnut Veterans March.

But you are ignoring the Gazillion 665th Chairborne Veterans that attended.

//

56 Gus  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 8:08:20pm

Palin. Secessionist newsletter…

[Dobro slide.]

57 jaunte  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 8:08:30pm

re: #55 andres

But you are ignoring the Gazillion 665th Chairborne Veterans that attended.

Mouse Salute!

58 ObserverArt  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 8:10:13pm

re: #48 jhrhv

All the pictures I’ve seen are zoomed in so you can’t tell how embarrassingly few people actually were there.

Any sane person might take that hint that in a nation of 300 Million when you only draw a few hundred people that maybe you’re not actually on the popular side of this issue. In a democracy that should matter.

These people obviously don’t care about real democracy.

In bizarro land they think they are the sane ones and the other 300 Million people are wrong.

I’ve been pointing that out today too. At best the videos have 75 to 100 people in them.

Its almost like a video trick on par with using the clone tool in Photoshop. Not in duplicating but in saying look at all them people.

59 simoom  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 8:10:21pm

#Godwin

60 Kragar  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 8:11:08pm

re: #59 simoom

[Embedded content]

Godwin

Also not a defense: “I was doing God’s will.”

61 jaunte  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 8:11:28pm
62 Targetpractice  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 8:13:29pm

re: #61 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Say Ted, stop a second and consider that by keeping insurance costs down, the ACA will allow more people to afford to stand in line for an iPhone.

Odd concept, I know, but I’m sure it’ll make sense to you in time.

63 jaunte  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 8:14:18pm

re: #62 Targetpractice

Any borrowed interest he can find.

64 Gus  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 8:14:36pm

re: #59 simoom

[Embedded content]

#Godwin

#Greenwald

65 simoom  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 8:15:37pm

re: #59 simoom

Same sign on the WH fence:

66 Belafon  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 8:17:58pm

re: #65 simoom

Neither is willful ignorance.

67 Aqua Obama  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 8:18:14pm

re: #9 Targetpractice

I cannot, for the life of me, remember the Left in this country ever plumbing such depths during the Bush years. There was some stupid shit said, but never to this extent.

Yeah, some of the protests got a little gnarly, but no way in hell did any elected official hang out with the equivalent of Oathkeepers and secessionists.

68 jhrhv  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 8:18:19pm

re: #61 jaunte

This guy isn’t playing with a full deck.

69 simoom  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 8:21:10pm

They, of course, had to throw in some Benghazi w/ photos of those murdered there:

70 ObserverArt  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 8:22:21pm

re: #62 Targetpractice

Say Ted, stop a second and consider that by keeping insurance costs down, the ACA will allow more people to afford to stand in line for an iPhone.

Odd concept, I know, but I’m sure it’ll make sense to you in time.

I see people all over ripping on the online signup. It’s now the jab at the whole program. No explanation or context just that it doesn’t work like ESPN or something.

Anyone have any updated data on how they are doing? I’ve been on the site twice and haven’t had any problems? I haven’t gotten to the sign up stage but the info has been accessible. Has anyone else tried and had issues? Any articles on implementation and numbers would be nice for some ammo.

Sad thing is, it could be humming along in a day or two, but the early “joke” description will stand as the default comment. It takes time to get that out of the thinking, especially amongst the predisposed haters. Only success for people everyone knows will kill it.

71 Gus  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 8:23:52pm
72 simoom  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 8:28:01pm

Doocy Jr. on scene:
Image: 10255527386_c1085bd114_b.jpg

73 Stanley Sea  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 8:28:58pm
74 jaunte  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 8:29:04pm

re: #71 Gus

Talking about “STASI” at 4:48…

75 jaunte  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 8:30:48pm
76 simoom  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 8:31:46pm

Check out this station wagon from the protest:

Image: 10255651323_3301e58baa_h.jpg

“Climate Change is a hoax. It’s the sun stoopid!”
“A corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.”

Mostly signs protesting smoking bans though.

77 freetoken  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 8:32:14pm

re: #71 Gus

These people aren’t just clinging to their Bibles and guns, they’re bitterly clinging.

78 ProTARDISLiberal  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 8:32:24pm

re: #72 simoom

Looks like he inherited the punchable face.

79 simoom  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 8:34:40pm

Sign, “Stop Change before it is too late.” W/ hammer & sickle:
Image: 10255514156_a73edf2fde_h.jpg
Honor flights vet wheeled passed in the foreground.

80 Gus  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 8:36:31pm

re: #79 simoom

Sign, “Stop Change before it is too late.” W/ hammer & sickle:
Image: 10255514156_a73edf2fde_h.jpg
Honor flights vet wheeled passed in the foreground.

SMH

81 Kragar  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 8:38:08pm

re: #76 simoom

Check out this station wagon from the protest:

Image: 10255651323_3301e58baa_h.jpg

Mostly signs protesting smoking bans though.

She actually thinks that smoking is less of health risk than not smoking?

What a dumbass.

82 simoom  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 8:39:30pm

Ben Franklin & Cap’n America teaparty cosplay:
Image: 10255525556_f4a1775bd1_h.jpg

83 Kragar  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 8:39:41pm

re: #79 simoom

Sign, “Stop Change before it is too late.” W/ hammer & sickle:
Image: 10255514156_a73edf2fde_h.jpg
Honor flights vet wheeled passed in the foreground.

Change?

Youtube Video

84 Kragar  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 8:40:37pm

re: #82 simoom

Ben Franklin & Cap’n America teaparty cosplay:
Image: 10255525556_f4a1775bd1_h.jpg

I wonder how many times a day they imagine those flags are flying from their wieners.

85 jhrhv  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 8:41:15pm

re: #76 simoom

If you find yourself agreeing with this person on anything it might be time to rethink your position.

86 bratwurst  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 8:41:17pm
87 jaunte  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 8:44:08pm

Vets, we’re going to cut your benefits, but you can look at all the marble monuments you want!!!

88 Lidane  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 8:45:02pm

re: #9 Targetpractice

I cannot, for the life of me, remember the Left in this country ever plumbing such depths during the Bush years. There was some stupid shit said, but never to this extent.

That’s because for every moonbat yahoo with their large puppets comparing Bush to Hitler, there were a bunch of us on the left forcefully swinging cluebats around trying to stamp that fail out at the source.

What we’re seeing with Obama is an unholy combination of 40+ years of the Republicans pandering to the idiots, the bigots and the religious fanatics to win elections, and a sizeable chunk of this country that has never gotten over the end of the Civil War or the end of Jim Crow.

89 Aunty Entity Dragon  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 8:45:40pm

re: #9 Targetpractice

I cannot, for the life of me, remember the Left in this country ever plumbing such depths during the Bush years. There was some stupid shit said, but never to this extent.

Saw some stuff at Balloon Juice where the far right was just as crazy and just as hateful down in Dallas on the day that Kennedy was shot. A black border “Wanted For Treason” poster was all over the city on the morning of the day he died. The Birchers were batfuck insane…and the GOP was smart enough to keep them out at the time.

That is no longer the case.

90 simoom  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 8:48:38pm

Unintelligible, to me at least, protest sign. Handgun on open bible in front of constitution “Freedom Protects…”:
Image: 10256912464_a4258456f8_b.jpg
Also references Corinthians 13:7: “Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.”

91 Kragar  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 8:48:39pm
92 Aqua Obama  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 8:49:15pm

re: #82 simoom

Ben Franklin & Cap’n America teaparty cosplay:
Image: 10255525556_f4a1775bd1_h.jpg

More like Barnacle Boy and Mermaid Man

93 Shiplord Kirel  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 8:49:37pm

re: #76 simoom

Check out this station wagon from the protest:

Image: 10255651323_3301e58baa_h.jpg

Mostly signs protesting smoking bans though.

Wow, there’s sure a shitload of cranks out there.

94 Aunty Entity Dragon  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 8:49:38pm

re: #88 Lidane

That’s because for every moonbat yahoo with their large puppets comparing Bush to Hitler, there were a bunch of us on the left forcefully swinging cluebats around trying to stamp that fail out at the source.

What we’re seeing with Obama is an unholy combination of 40+ years of the Republicans pandering to the idiots, the bigots and the religious fanatics to win elections, and a sizeable chunk of this country that has never gotten over the end of the Civil War or the end of Jim Crow.

The panel on Fareed Zakharia on CNN was almost like watching Rachel Maddow this morning. One of the panelists (a PH.D candidate at Harvard) researching the TEA Party was pretty specific that an awful lot of them really do want to get rid of the last fifty years…period. One of the subjects in a focus group a couple of weeks ago was saying something along “Everybody was white, everybody was middle class, everybody was above average, everybody went to the same church…”.

Um, yeah…

95 Aqua Obama  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 8:51:07pm

re: #93 Shiplord Kirel

Wow, there’s sure a shitload of cranks out there.

“My hail of deadly lawn ornaments will kill you long before my second hand smoke will”

96 Belafon  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 8:51:36pm

re: #94 celticdragon

“everybody was middle class”

My family would like to have a word with him.

97 Aunty Entity Dragon  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 8:51:55pm

re: #93 Shiplord Kirel

Wow, there’s sure a shitload of cranks out there.

WTF????

I have seen some real angry right wing bumper sticker laden cars out there…but that is some weapons grade crazy right there….

98 Gus  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 8:52:09pm

“Looks like something out of Kenya.”

Watch the video here.

99 Aunty Entity Dragon  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 8:53:16pm

Good night, lizards. Off to bed.

100 simoom  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 8:53:18pm

Protest t-shirt with goofy B.A.R.A.C.K. acronym:
Image: 10256923494_e5138edc61_b.jpg

“Banning
American
Rights
And
Constitutional
Knowledge.”

Also includes AR-15 clipart.

101 jaunte  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 8:54:47pm

re: #76 simoom

Check out this station wagon from the protest:

Image: 10255651323_3301e58baa_h.jpg.

I was aimless, drifting through life, before your car of many colors spoke to me.

102 CuriousLurker  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 8:57:32pm

re: #90 simoom

Unintelligible, to me at least, protest sign. Handgun on open bible in front of constitution “Freedom Protects…”:
Image: 10256912464_a4258456f8_b.jpg
Also references Corinthians 13:7: “Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.”

Full metal bug nuts. I’d be worried if it made sense to you.

103 Shiplord Kirel  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 8:57:55pm

re: #90 simoom

Unintelligible, to me at least, protest sign. Handgun on open bible in front of constitution “Freedom Protects…”:
Image: 10256912464_a4258456f8_b.jpg
Also references Corinthians 13:7: “Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.”

Note the guy’s expression and body language. Sorry, folks, I really believe this is going to end with serious violence. Millions of delusional, massively armed fanatics won’t just go away somewhere when reality keeps frustrating their ambitions. They will keep inventing crazier and more inflammatory excuses until it reaches a breaking point.

104 Gus  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 8:59:07pm

re: #90 simoom

Unintelligible, to me at least, protest sign. Handgun on open bible in front of constitution “Freedom Protects…”:
Image: 10256912464_a4258456f8_b.jpg
Also references Corinthians 13:7: “Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.”

Revival.

105 jaunte  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 8:59:10pm

re: #103 Shiplord Kirel

related:

106 Belafon  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 9:01:41pm

re: #104 Gus

Revolval!

107 CuriousLurker  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 9:01:46pm

re: #100 simoom

Protest t-shirt with goofy B.A.R.A.C.K. acronym:
Image: 10256923494_e5138edc61_b.jpg

“Banning
American
Rights
And
Constitutional
Knowledge.”

Also includes AR-15 clipart.

So… he’s banning Constitutional knowledge? How do you do that? I’ve heard of Civil rights and Constitutional rights, but never American rights… I guess that must mean I’m not a Real American™.

108 simoom  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 9:03:05pm

Two oath keeper flags in this shot:
Image: 10256465624_70919df1c5_h.jpg

109 wheat-dogghazi  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 9:05:29pm

re: #76 simoom

Check out this station wagon from the protest:

Image: 10255651323_3301e58baa_h.jpg

Mostly signs protesting smoking bans though.

The resale value of that car must be $11.98 by now. It should be shellacked and put in a museum of weird shit people do.

110 jaunte  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 9:06:01pm

re: #107 CuriousLurker

You have to get the neck tattoo that reads “Consitution.”

111 freetoken  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 9:10:29pm

re: #108 simoom

Two oath keeper flags in this shot:
Image: 10256465624_70919df1c5_h.jpg

And a great big “GOD”.

112 Gus  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 9:11:48pm

re: #111 freetoken

And a great big “GOD”.

A lot of women there too. //

113 wheat-dogghazi  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 9:12:04pm

I suppose I don’t need to point this out, but if the USA were in fact a dictatorship (or oppressive oligarchy), none of these people would be walking around free now. The security police would have swooped in, picked them up, probably whacked a few with batons or pepper-sprayed them, and hauled them off to jail — or those FEMA camps they’re always talking about.

That is, if they would have been allowed to gather in the first place.

Here in China, no one in his right mind would stand in a public square and call President Xi Jinping names, imply he was a traitor or impostor, and demand he come out and leave office. No one would be waving the Koumintang flag, or the Japanese flag, either.

114 freetoken  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 9:12:35pm

I’m sounding like a broken record here, but this protest shows once again that religious angst is the heart of the problem.

The world is not working the way these people were told, preached at while sitting in pews year after year.

And now they are bitter about that.

115 CuriousLurker  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 9:15:37pm

From the CNN source article:

One speaker went as far as saying the president was a Muslim…

It’s lovely being reminded every fricking day how calling someone a Muslim is an epithet and that the idea of an American president being Muslim is viewed by many as an act of treason.

116 CuriousLurker  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 9:17:14pm

I’ve had enough of this shit for one day.

Later, lizards.

117 Shiplord Kirel  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 9:19:05pm

re: #113 wheat-dogghazi

I suppose I don’t need to point this out, but if the USA were in fact a dictatorship (or oppressive oligarchy), none of these people would be walking around free now. The security police would have swooped in, picked them up, probably whacked a few with batons or pepper-sprayed them, and hauled them off to jail — or those FEMA camps they’re always talking about.

That is, if they would have been allowed to gather in the first place.

Here in China, no one in his right mind would stand in a public square and call President Xi Jinping names, imply he was a traitor or impostor, and demand he come out and leave office. No one would be waving the Koumintang flag, or the Japanese flag, either.

Reminds me of Carl Sagan’s account of an argument he was having with a Russian colleague back in the 1960s. The Russian had asserted that his own country was at least as free as the United States.
Sagan responded, “But I can go to the White House and protest the Vietnam War anytime I like.”
The Russian was unimpressed, “So? I can go to the Kremlin and protest the Vietnam War anytime I like too.”

118 wheat-dogghazi  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 9:20:22pm

re: #117 Shiplord Kirel

Reminds me of Carl Sagan’s account of an argument he was having with a Russian colleague back in the 1960s. The Russian had asserted that his own country was at least as free as the United States.
Sagan responded, “But I can go to the White House and protest the Vietnam War anytime I like.”
The Russian was unimpressed, “So? I can go to the Kremlin and protest the Vietnam War anytime I like too.”

I think there’s a version of this joke that involves Khrushchev and Kennedy, too.

119 jaunte  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 9:23:15pm
120 Lidane  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 9:25:04pm
121 HoosierHoops  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 9:25:45pm

So I’m curled up in bed with Winston by my side ready to fall asleep..
You know..After years of injuries gotten from sports mostly..I guess.. You know, The broken bones, Knee injuries, feet issues..Don’t forget the 67 stitches on my hand from sliding into a metal bench during a high school basketball game..My head bouncing on the floor..Me punishing my boys on the court and them punishing dad for years..( Such fun..Thank you God )
I think my back has gave out.. I go for an MRI at 6:30am in the morning..
Gosh Lizards.. It was so much fun to play when we were young.
I can’t forget those fun moments.. ( Yea..I know just another surgery so stop crying like a little girl )
When my kids and I played ball.. ..I taught taught them how to play basketball..When Jordan was like 7 or 8 and I gave him his first hard block and he ran crying inside to mommy..And Mom came out staring and then yelling at me…How much fun we had..When he grew strong he nor any of the boys showed the old man mercy..How many nights did all of us play outside? I cherish those dear memories.. Maybe not David at 280lbs and 6’3” dropping me down for trying to run in the middle.
Pops? Are you Ok? gasp.. sure I’m fine..coughing..( he finally got me back )
So.. I know my back is going to flunk the MRI in the morning..
But those wonderful memories…Well.. I love you guys while I go though this..And you know what? I love the pain killers I’m eating like candy..yummy..

122 Stifford  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 9:26:25pm

re: #72 simoom

Maybe they are trying to get FoxNews Cosplay started up at these conventions, to liven things up for the youth.

123 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 9:27:13pm

You know what’s really getting old, all the two faced bullshit. First, D_F retweets this, presumably because it paints his hero Mark Kirk as a moderate:

And it was true, Kirk did make that pledge:

On Oct. 7, a Kirk’s office confirmed Kirk would vote for a “clean” Senate bill to lift the debt ceiling, that is, one with no strings attached and would vote for “cloture,” that is, making a bill filibuster-proof so it could advance for debate. The Saturday vote was on the “cloture” question.

Then as we all know, Kirk turned out to be a liar, yet again:

The motion to proceed to the Democrats’ bill received 53 votes in favor and 45 against, falling short of the 60 needed to begin debate. Every Republican senator voted to filibuster it. The bill would have raised the debt limit until the end of 2014 with no policy add-ons.

And D_F’s response in the last thread:

It was a Democratic bill for a 14 month debt ceiling extension. I’m just fine with Senator Kirk voting to filibuster it …

This, in a nutshell illustrates exactly why it’s become absolutely impossible to trust anything that Republicans say. There’s no lie great enough, no craven reversal or economic hostage taking tactic that they won’t condone, justify or enable when done by GOP politicians acting in lockstep.

It’s not hyperbole to say that for them it’s party before country, that personal integrity is meaningless. It’s not hyperbole or out of line to call them terrorists when the results of their actions are literally hurting and terrorizing millions of people. At this point that’s just an objective fact.

124 jaunte  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 9:28:45pm

re: #121 HoosierHoops

6:30’s a great time for it; don’t drink any coffee and you can nap right through it.

125 Targetpractice  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 9:33:02pm

Folks hear Gohmert’s latest brain fart?

126 sagehen  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 9:37:40pm

Boehner during the ‘95 shutdown:

photos.denverpost.com

127 Aqua Obama  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 9:38:56pm

re: #126 sagehen

Boehner during the ‘95 shutdown:

photos.denverpost.com

That might be the dorkiest political stunt I’ve ever seen

128 wheat-dogghazi  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 9:40:26pm

re: #125 Targetpractice

Folks hear Gohmert’s latest brain fart?

In what universe is this true? The Gohmert Zone? America’s creditors — like China — are worried enough to tell Washington to straighten this mess out.

129 Targetpractice  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 9:41:11pm

What I love is how the “default truthers” will declare that we could totally have the Treasury prioritize debt interest payments and so not truly default, but if SS or Medicare checks don’t go out on time as a result, then that’s Obama wanting old people to suffer.

130 Aqua Obama  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 9:43:53pm

re: #129 Targetpractice

During the election campaign, I came across some old guy, living in subsidized housing no less, claiming Obama denied him his “raise”.

You think after 75 years on Planet Earth, you’d know which branch of government controls government expenditures.

131 jaunte  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 9:45:19pm

re: #129 Targetpractice

I wonder how long they think it would take to prioritize and then reconfigure the entire Treasury system for writing checks.

132 simoom  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 9:45:25pm

re: #126 sagehen

Boehner during the ‘95 shutdown:

photos.denverpost.com

Heh, I guessed it would be the coal photo. It was all about theatrics, symbolic gestures, stunts, etc back then too.

133 Aqua Obama  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 9:46:10pm

re: #132 simoom

Heh, I guessed it would be the coal photo. It was all about theatrics, symbolic gestures, stunts, etc back then too.

Everybody in that picture looks like a refugee from a John Hughes movie

134 Targetpractice  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 9:46:28pm

re: #130 Carlos Danger

During the election campaign, I came across some old guy, living in subsidized housing no less, claiming Obama denied him his “raise”.

You think after 75 years on Planet Earth, you’d know which branch of government controls government expenditures.

Ayep, you can be sure if we do go past the 17th and manage to find a way to avoid defaulting on our debt, the first time that SS checks don’t go out or Medicare checks are withheld, Republicans will scream bloody murder and move quickly to pass a bill to force the White House to send those checks.

135 The Mountain That Blogs  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 9:46:49pm

re: #129 Targetpractice

And assuming the US government, the most incompetent organization on earth, could organize something that monumentally complicated at the 11th hour.

136 simoom  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 9:47:48pm
137 jaunte  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 9:50:23pm

From the link: protesting government workers.
Image: i-hv3fG7p-L.jpg
Some of these signs are still appropriate today.

138 Targetpractice  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 9:50:28pm

Can’t remember who it was, think it was Costa, who was talking about how Ryan had stayed quiet during the initial stages of the whole shutdown and then shown up last week to take command in crafting the House’s proposal.

Three days later, his proposal’s gone belly-up and he’s seething mad at the Senate for stealing his thunder as he tries desperately to craft something that he can get the TPers to support.

139 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 9:51:59pm

re: #128 wheat-dogghazi

In what universe is this true? The Gohmert Zone? America’s creditors — like China — are worried enough to tell Washington to straighten this mess out.

I just can’t wait until Gohmert and the rest of the Republicans figure out that the vast majority of the Department of Defense Budget is discretionary spending. If we do go into default and as they say we can service the dept to keep our credit good then guess what? It’s not entitlements like Social Security and Medicare that will be cut, because they’re mandatory, non-discretionary spending. The biggest and most obvious area for the Executive to slash costs is going to be from the military, because that’s where the bulk of the money left exists … while we still have troops in Afghanistan.

Of course most other Cabinet level department will also take huge hits, Dept of Agriculture (FDA), Health and Human Services (CDC), Justice, Homeland Security, Education, Energy, Interior … and on and on.

But if they do this there’s no way to guarantee the money flows to the military for long, sure we’ll pay the soldiers, until we can’t afford to have soldiers. New weapons systems procurements, overseas bases, domestic bases, the nuclear fleet, they’ll all have to be drastically cut down in size. None of this is what the GOP wants, but because of the way we differentiate between discretionary and non-discretionary spending the very entitlements that the GOP desperately wants to undermine are the only things actually walled off from the very disaster they’re trying to manufacture.

140 Lidane  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 9:52:43pm

re: #125 Targetpractice

Folks hear Gohmert’s latest brain fart?

GOHMERT! on economics government objective reality not being a massive tool …. well, everything:

Image: Gohmert.jpg

141 Gus  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 9:52:55pm

re: #137 jaunte

[Embedded content]

From the link: protesting government workers.
Image: i-hv3fG7p-L.jpg
Some of these signs are still appropriate today.

Those are federal workers though.

142 Gus  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 9:53:55pm

Super pooped here so good night.

143 jaunte  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 9:54:05pm

re: #141 Gus

Oh yes; they’re not protesting the monument closing, they’re protesting the whole charade.

144 The Mountain That Blogs  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 9:54:33pm

re: #139 goddamnedfrank

None of this is what the GOP wants, but because of the way we differentiate between discretionary and non-discretionary spending the very entitlements that the GOP desperately wants to undermine are the only things actually walled off from the very disaster they’re trying to manufacture.

And they know it, too. This isn’t about entitlements, it’s not about healthcare, it’s not even about long-term fiscal anything. They didn’t like the election results so they are burning the whole thing down. And we all pay the price.

145 sagehen  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 10:00:13pm

re: #128 wheat-dogghazi

In what universe is this true? The Gohmert Zone? America’s creditors — like China — are worried enough to tell Washington to straighten this mess out.

Not to mention, if the economy collapses — like by cutting 1/3 out of our budget overnight and dropping GDP by 4% — our current revenues will also plummet. And the automatic stabilizers (food stamps, unemployment) will skyrocket. And debt service will go up by about $10B/month for every 1% the intererest rate kicks up.

So the debt and deficit will be drastically worse. And if they *still* don’t raise the debt limit, it will go into spiral so bad I don’t even want to imagine.

146 HappyWarrior  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 10:11:14pm

Larry Klayman’s the one who doesn’t understand American values. Sorry Larry you don’t get to depose a democratically elected president just because you don’t like his policies you fascist fuck. And fuck the idiots with the Confederate flags. They showed their true colors today. Hopefully this reminds the American people on why they’ve come to despise the TP.

147 austin_blue  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 10:14:39pm

re: #90 simoom

Unintelligible, to me at least, protest sign. Handgun on open bible in front of constitution “Freedom Protects…”:
Image: 10256912464_a4258456f8_b.jpg
Also references Corinthians 13:7: “Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.”

“Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition.”

It’s an old tune, still sung. Sad but true.

if Jesus was alive today, he wouldn’t be able to stop throwing up.

148 Lidane  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 10:16:05pm

re: #128 wheat-dogghazi

In what universe is this true? The Gohmert Zone? America’s creditors — like China — are worried enough to tell Washington to straighten this mess out.

“What the hell would a bunch of commie Maoists know about capitalism or Real Murica?”

/Tea Party

149 Mattand  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 10:17:52pm

re: #144 The Mountain That Blogs

And they know it, too. This isn’t about entitlements, it’s not about healthcare, it’s not even about long-term fiscal anything. They didn’t like the election results so they are burning the whole thing down. And we all pay the price.

I’ve been a broken record about this, but the amount of people I know refusing to acknowledge this is depressing.

At least in my corner of the world, the fact that people are going Magic Balance Fairy on the shutdown is a major win for the GOP.

150 wheat-dogghazi  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 10:18:05pm

re: #147 austin_blue

“Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition.”

It’s an old tune, still sung. Sad but true.

if Jesus was alive today, he wouldn’t be able to stop throwing up.

I rather suspect he would do something aggressive like zapping the fig tree or throwing the money-lenders out of the temple. There are moments in the Gospels where you could tell he was exasperated, annoyed, irritated and just plain pissed off.

151 Lidane  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 10:18:06pm

re: #147 austin_blue

Youtube Video

152 Amory Blaine  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 10:18:13pm

David Gregory said both sides do it. What’s the problem?
//

153 austin_blue  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 10:19:39pm

re: #114 freetoken

I’m sounding like a broken record here, but this protest shows once again that religious angst is the heart of the problem.

The world is not working the way these people were told, preached at while sitting in pews year after year.

And now they are bitter about that.

QFT.

But I think “bitter” is a bit mild, don’t you?

154 wheat-dogghazi  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 10:20:54pm

re: #148 Lidane

“What the hell would a bunch of commie Maoists know about capitalism or Real Murica?”

/Tea Party

I know it’s sarc-tagged, but the Chinese seem to know quite a bit about capitalism. They’ve got reason to be nervous, considering how much they have invested in US-backed securities.

155 Targetpractice  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 10:22:00pm

Today should be interesting. The House spent yesterday out of session while the Senate toiled away, but is today saying it might be taking one or more votes, as well as tomorrow. Will be interesting to see if they’ve managed to put together a bill that they can whip enough votes together to pass.

156 freetoken  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 10:28:23pm

re: #153 austin_blue

QFT.

But I think “bitter” is a bit mild, don’t you?

Well then, how about vinegarishly acrid ?

157 Kragar  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 10:29:35pm

Youtube Video

158 ProTARDISLiberal  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 10:30:10pm

So, out of curiosity, I tried to spawn in the amount of gold I have in Skyrim at me to see what that much money looks like (1,074,555 Septims)

Skyrim seized up and crashed.

159 The Ghost of a Flea  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 10:31:26pm

re: #144 The Mountain That Blogs

And they know it, too. This isn’t about entitlements, it’s not about healthcare, it’s not even about long-term fiscal anything. They didn’t like the election results so they are burning the whole thing down. And we all pay the price.

I disagree to the extent that I think it’s about testing out methods of having an oligarchy operating inside a representative democracy. Threat of government shutdown is just a new method of getting what they want when they don’t have the Senate, the executive, or the Supreme Court.

I’d point to the other experiments that the GOP has done in the same vein. Dicking with funding and staffing, like with the Post Office, FDA, and ATF. The constant legal attempts to re-define freedom, and the back-end ways of channeling state money to religious schools. To say nothing of the giant raft of policy that erodes right to privacy, both as a matter of “security” (War on Terror, War on Drugs) and “conscience” (sexual orientation, contraception).

It’s not just that they want to see things burn. They want everything to burn so that they, as crisis actors, can establish the world they want…where most of us don’t have a say.

160 The Mountain That Blogs  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 10:41:02pm

re: #159 The Ghost of a Flea

I’d point to the other experiments that the GOP has done in the same vein. Dicking with funding and staffing, like with the Post Office, FDA, and ATF.

With that stuff I agree. But no sensible oligarch would touch the debt ceiling. That the US even has an option to default is insane.

161 Dr Lizardo  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 10:44:29pm

re: #41 bratwurst

Especially when you consider that the next “Million ______ March” that actually attracts anywhere close to a million souls will be the first!

Heh. For all their screeching about “Million ________ Marches”, the only person who even came remotely close to pulling that off in recent times was Louis Farrakhan.

The estimated crowd size was 837,000.*

*Source = Boston University bu.edu

162 freetoken  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 10:50:11pm

MP3 Audio

163 Snarknado!  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 10:53:35pm

re: #160 The Mountain That Blogs

With that stuff I agree. But no sensible oligarch would touch the debt ceiling. That the US even has an option to default is insane.

Upding… but the oligarchs aren’t interested in actually sitting in Congress, and probably wouldn’t be electable. So they have to back what they think are suitable surrogates — and the Romney type isn’t electable either. Thus wingnuts and the people wingnuts will elect.

Perhaps this experience (if we survive it) will make them reexamine that tactic.

(And now I have to go to bed. Night, lizards.)

164 The Ghost of a Flea  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 10:57:36pm

re: #160 The Mountain That Blogs

With that stuff I agree. But no sensible oligarch would touch the debt ceiling. That the US even has an option to default is insane.

Sensibility doesn’t enter into it.

The starting point for this authoritarianism is the idea that they have a revealed and unique understanding of both freedom and divine will, and everybody else doesn’t.

They don’t care about economics, or even about other people suffering. Their focus is ideological purity…and they think if people hurt more, there’s an opportunity there to create converts or subjects.

165 chadu  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 10:58:08pm

re: #28 Tigger2005

And worse, I am beginning to hate my Republican friends and family members. I hate them for refusing to see what their Party has become. I hate them for the way they are just ignoring what is happening. I hate the way they are never going to admit they helped bring this about. Because if not for mainstream Republicans going along with it, the Tea Party would not have gotten anywhere.

Yeah, I’m right there with you.

I try to understand and accommodate, but they’re batshit insane.

I don’t know what to do.

166 Velvet Elvis  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 11:03:07pm

re: #164 The Ghost of a Flea

Sensibility doesn’t enter into it.

The starting point for this authoritarianism is the idea that they have a revealed and unique understanding of both freedom and divine will, and everybody else doesn’t.

They don’t care about economics, or even about other people suffering. Their focus is ideological purity…and they think if people hurt more, there’s an opportunity there to create converts or subjects.

I think it’s erroneous to conflate socons and ficons like that. They are pretty much a coalition at best. Any “oligarch” would be a ficon.

167 chadu  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 11:04:16pm

re: #67 Carlos Danger

Yeah, some of the protests got a little gnarly, but no way in hell did any elected official hang out with the equivalent of Oathkeepers and secessionists.

And Heaven forfend anyone recommended “2nd Amendment solutions.”

168 Velvet Elvis  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 11:04:59pm

re: #165 chadu

Yeah, I’m right there with you.

I try to understand and accommodate, but they’re batshit insane.

I don’t know what to do.

It’s the libertarians that get to me more because occasionally they are right, or at least come from a semi-sane place.

169 chadu  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 11:10:08pm

re: #87 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Vets, we’re going to cut your benefits, but you can look at all the marble monuments you want!!!

And we are shown YET AGAIN that the Right only cares about our veterans as a goddamn prop, rather than caring for our brothers/sisters/sons/daughters/wives/husbands/fathers/mothers.

170 chadu  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 11:12:16pm

re: #94 celticdragon

It’s like the Mirror Universe of Lake Woebegone.

171 chadu  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 11:15:35pm

re: #115 CuriousLurker

From the CNN source article:

It’s lovely being reminded every fricking day how calling someone a Muslim is an epithet and that the idea of an American president being Muslim is viewed by many as an act of treason.

Well, in their favor, they’re fucking idiots,

172 The Ghost of a Flea  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 11:16:41pm

re: #166 Velvet Elvis

I think it’s erroneous to conflate socons and ficons like that. They are pretty much a coalition at best. Any “oligarch” would be a ficon.

Maybe I’m using a word wrong:

oligarchy- rule by the small number of people
oligarch- an individual with an oligarchy

Moneyed power is certain a form of oligarchy, but it’s not the only one.

Also, in the case of the current Tea Party people, it’s totally fair to conflate fiscal and social conservatism, because their platform includes both. Indeed, their worldview is based around the conflation of both, since they find their justifcation for free market capitalism and anti-tax rhetoric in the Bible. It’s Prosperity Gospel and David Barton as intellectual touchstones. Go look up the stuff that Ted Cruz’s dad preaches.

Even in the specific case of the shutdown/default fight, fiscal and social conservative ideas are fluid. The demands being made are reflect both social and fiscal conservative radicalism.

173 chadu  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 11:22:14pm

re: #168 Velvet Elvis

Well, as you say.

Don’t mind me: I’m ripped on period.

174 freetoken  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 11:36:50pm

If we were to put this entire episode of tea-mania drive towards national default into a movie… wondering about the musical score:

For the scene where John the Orange is all alone one night, in a darkened Capitol office room, the floors of which are cluttered with scatterings of old papers and trash cans overflowing for lack of janitorial staff who have long been furloughed, as John stares out into the empty and silent hallway….

MP3 Audio

175 Sol Berdinowitz  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 11:41:42pm

The Confederate flag stands for the honor and sacrifice of the venerated rebel dead. And nothing else because southerners say so

The Koran stands for Allah’s love and compassion and those who seek to earn it, and nothing else because Muslims say so.

And my bare butt cheeks pointed across the lawn at you are a sign of respect, because I say so…

176 palomino  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 11:45:37pm

Wouldn’t it be nice if just a few of the Republicans in Congress denounced the “Obama is a Kenyan Muslim trying to destroy America” crap? Maybe some Republicans have, but I haven’t heard any. Anyone else?

177 CarolJ  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 11:55:01pm

re: #174 freetoken

An as he looks out over a mall bathed in orange streetlights, he can just barely make out the hundreds of tents pitched on the Mall lawn….

178 Lidane  Sun, Oct 13, 2013 11:57:16pm

re: #176 palomino

Wouldn’t it be nice if just a few of the Republicans in Congress denounced the “Obama is a Kenyan Muslim trying to destroy America” crap? Maybe some Republicans have, but I haven’t heard any. Anyone else?

The only one that comes to mind was McCain back in 2008, but even he did the “No, he’s a decent American” song and dance. I can’t remember any other Republican offhand denouncing the birther shit and the “Obummer’s a seekrit Moozlim!” garbage.

179 Kragar  Mon, Oct 14, 2013 12:00:31am

re: #174 freetoken

If we were to put this entire episode of tea-mania drive towards national default into a movie… wondering about the musical score:

For the scene where John the Orange is all alone one night, in a darkened Capitol office room, the floors of which are cluttered with scatterings of old papers and trash cans overflowing for lack of janitorial staff who have long been furloughed, as John stares out into the empty and silent hallway….

[Embedded content]

I was thinking something more like this…

Youtube Video

Who are the ones that we kept in charge?
Killers, thieves, and lawyers

180 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Oct 14, 2013 12:02:34am

re: #178 Lidane

The only one that comes to mind was McCain back in 2008, but even he did the “No, he’s a decent American” song and dance. I can’t remember any other Republican offhand denouncing the birther shit and the “Obummer’s a seekrit Moozlim!” garbage.

They call it “celebrating critical thinking” but it has little to do with actual critical though, it just means criticizing anything they hear from or about Obama.

181 Velvet Elvis  Mon, Oct 14, 2013 12:08:49am

re: #176 palomino

Wouldn’t it be nice if just a few of the Republicans in Congress denounced the “Obama is a Kenyan Muslim trying to destroy America” crap? Maybe some Republicans have, but I haven’t heard any. Anyone else?

McCain did during his presidential campaign, interestingly enough.

182 freetoken  Mon, Oct 14, 2013 12:11:46am

re: #181 Velvet Elvis

McCain did during his presidential campaign, interestingly enough.

I think it was supposed to be a Sister Soulja moment for him, but it didn’t work.

183 wheat-dogghazi  Mon, Oct 14, 2013 12:15:05am

re: #180 Sol Berdinowitz

They call it “celebrating critical thinking” but it has little to do with actual critical though, it just means criticizing anything they hear from or about Obama.

Real critical thinking would include examination and re-evaluation of one’s own beliefs and reasoning, which clearly none of this people know how to do.

For most of these people, “Muslim” is a synonym for “enemy.” In the ’50s, Obama would have been labeled a commie; in the ’60s, a hippie or a commie. In all those decades, he would have been more accurately labeled … a Eisenhower Republican.

184 Kragar  Mon, Oct 14, 2013 12:15:59am

re: #182 freetoken

I think it was supposed to be a Sister Soulja moment for him, but it didn’t work.

At this point, any GOP candidate who want a serious shot in ‘16 is going to have to call out the whole Soulja extended family.

185 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Oct 14, 2013 12:18:26am

re: #183 wheat-dogghazi

For most of these people, “Muslim” is a synonym for “enemy.”

It is seen as a symbol for dark, dangerous forces out to subjugate and Shairize Christian America

186 wheat-dogghazi  Mon, Oct 14, 2013 12:24:36am

re: #185 Sol Berdinowitz

It is seen as a symbol for dark, dangerous forces out to subjugate and Shairize Christian America

Along with Satanism, witchcraft, demons, rock music, teh ghey, Miley Cyrus, Harry Potter, Disneyworld, the Boy Scouts, the Girl Scouts, and all of New York City.

187 freetoken  Mon, Oct 14, 2013 12:26:27am

Continuing our featured film, It’s A Mad Mad Mad Mad Party, as John the Orange stares out into empty space his mind wanders back to the glory of the million 300 trucker drive, around and around and around the beltway, around and around they go, spinning up the beltway…

MP3 Audio

188 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Oct 14, 2013 12:44:21am

Heh, just caught this: Screenshot from the Netflix page for The Autobiography of Nicolae Ceausescu (relevant section highlighted):
Think I’ll pass on this one.

189 Kragar  Mon, Oct 14, 2013 12:44:53am
190 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Oct 14, 2013 12:47:15am

re: #189 Kragar

Amusing but incorrect. It is about making health care more accessible and assault weapons less accessible

191 moderatelyradicalliberal  Mon, Oct 14, 2013 12:53:47am

re: #50 Kragar

About this time last year…

Allegations uncovered that right wing pundit Larry Klayman sexually abused his own children

A real actual goat-fucking child molester.

192 Kragar  Mon, Oct 14, 2013 12:54:45am

re: #190 Sol Berdinowitz

Amusing but incorrect. It is about making health care more accessible and assault weapons less accessible

I consider it the counterpoint to “Take your Koran back to Kenya”, except I say it in jest as opposed to the dead seriousness of the Teahadis.

193 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Oct 14, 2013 12:56:43am

re: #192 Kragar

I consider it the counterpoint to “Take your Koran back to Kenya”, except I say it in jest as opposed to the dead seriousness of the Teahadis.

too subtle and nuanced you are this discussion for, young master

194 freetoken  Mon, Oct 14, 2013 1:25:58am

Every movie needs a love scene, even a tragic comedy like IMMMMP. In one memorable scene Million Trucker Earl Conlon lays eyes on The Tobacco Gal, and music floats through their tobacco-smoke filled air:

MP3 Audio

195 wheat-dogghazi  Mon, Oct 14, 2013 1:26:18am

re: #189 Kragar

BSOD for American democracy.

196 wheat-dogghazi  Mon, Oct 14, 2013 1:29:43am

re: #195 wheat-dogghazi

BSOD for American democracy.

More accurately, our situation is akin to “Shockwave Flash has crashed.” The browser still works, but the site doesn’t work as well as intended by its designers.

197 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Oct 14, 2013 1:46:46am

Good TIME article from last week:

But in a case like the fiscal crisis, false equivalence matters. It’s the difference between reporting an extraordinary event and an ordinary one, which in this case is crucial to how the story plays out politically. It’s a matter of whether “not changing current law” becomes redefined as “getting 100% of what you want.” If this is just one more case of those knuckleheads in Washington “digging in their heels,” “playing the blame game,” and so on, it normalizes the situation for the news audience: it sends the tacit message that it is entirely ordinary, every so often, to have a forced debt crisis that reasonable people resolve through “compromise” by renegotiating major pieces of U.S. law.

Is the situation ordinary? It’s true that legislators of both parties-like Sen. Obama in 2006-have made grandstanding votes against the debt limit many times in the past. But those were stage-managed protests in which votes were carefully counted and there was no serious fear the U.S. would actually default, unlike in 2011, when the crisis resulted in a downgrade of the U.S. credit rating. That’s another case where “the other side did it too” does not an equivalence make.

So here, “Both sides got us into this mess” sounds neutral, but it’s actually taking a side-or, at least, adopting the framing that one side is counting on using to a political end. Reality doesn’t always have a bias, liberal or otherwise. But when it does, it’s not journalism’s job to rebalance reality.

198 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Oct 14, 2013 1:57:33am

Another really good one, this time from Reed Richardson in the Nation:

To execute this bit of legerdemain, however, the media has adopted a couple of subtle, intellectual cheats. First, it stubbornly clings to a blinkered, forward-only-looking mindset. This lets pundits float what sound like eminently sensible compromises while conveniently ignoring how they sharply conflict with the bankrupt motives and obstinate conduct of Congressional Republicans up till now. Thus, it is Senate Democrats who can be chastised in the press for not negotiating, even though Republicans have rebuffed their budget conference offer 21 times and passing a “clean” Continuing Resolution already represents a compromise by Democrats since it re-establishes sequester-level spending.

Second, and more disturbingly, the press has essentially accepted the House Republicans’ refusal to govern as a kind of unalterable, a priori condition, rather than a shameless failure by Speaker Boehner to prevent a rump minority from taking over his caucus. And by absolving the Republicans of any agency over their own extreme behavior, the press can then effectively spread the responsibility for fixing it to everyone in Washington, most especially President Obama. Indeed, the notion that it is now somehow the president’s duty to both extract concessions from Democrats and rescue Republicans from themselves is spreading like wildfire within the Beltway. And nowhere is this contrived idea more popular than over at the Washington Post.

Whether it’s Steven Pearlstein or David Ignatius or Matt Miller or Ruth Marcus or the paper’s “On Leadership” columnist, the Post repeatedly drums out the beat that, while the Republicans are to blame, the president must nevertheless give up something so the GOP House leadership can “save face” amongst its members. Even the paper’s reliably right-wing hack, Jen Rubin, acknowledges that Republican “stupidity” and “unreasonableness” are the culprits behind the crisis, yet she too argues that Democrats just need to “save the country” by giving in.

That’s right, according to Jen Rubin’s blatantly disingenuous logic, getting Democrats to cave in exchange for something as simple as keeping the government’s lights on and paying its bills on time will surely convince Republicans to never hold the country hostage again. Sure, and if you believe that, I have a closed-down WW II Memorial to sell you.

199 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Oct 14, 2013 2:13:24am

I think that the false equivalence craze really took off as the traditional print newspaper and magazine business model started having their lunch eaten by online blogs. Whereas before all user comments were read in advance and published, with discretion as letters to the editor, the newspaper and magazine operating boards saw a chance to cut costs and rope readers in with a false sense of ownership (buy in + community) by letting them comment directly.

This might have worked if they’d retained an educated, talented and trained journalist / editor in the loop, performing prior restraint and only publishing those comments that contained actual informational value or were at least moderately well written and articulated. Instead they turned their pages into the commons, and the sudden shift to unusually lax oversight allowed the predictable tragedy of the commons to occur. Newspaper and magazine pages were never a free for all before and they were never intended to be, they’ve always had an owner / stakeholder, publisher and editor to maintain them and make them at all worthwhile.

Now they don’t know what to do. A lot of them are realizing that they’ve turned their properties into an open sewer and are turning comments off, which is one way to go I guess. I understand that it’s not always easy to find people qualified enough to intelligently read and sift through so much public input who will do it for the wages offered. As bad as things have gotten it must be a shit job, and they really seem afraid of banning serial abusers, people who use the space to offer nothing but lies, obvious misinformation, poor writing and bad manners.

200 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Oct 14, 2013 2:25:21am

Congresspeople who even talk out loud about the shutdown should have their mouth stuffed with unwashed socks. The only thing that they should be doing is working to get the government running again, then they can talk about whose fault it was and why.

201 freetoken  Mon, Oct 14, 2013 2:33:33am

re: #199 goddamnedfrank

We should consider also the rise of Reality TV and all the You-Pick-The-Winner schemes (e.g., DWTS).

These all play into the deep desire for recognition and the power of the Id, which Adam Curtis made center stage in his now classic Century of the Self.

This ultimate goal of consumerism, to fool a person into thinking that a scheme is all themselves when it is really about seducing that person into giving power and money to the manipulator, is very overwhelming to anyone who lives in our society today.

So now we have Americans who think their drooling idiocy is some profound statement of Patriotism, complete with tri-cornered hats.

There have always been the oddballs, those who really were lost in society at large. But our technology has now allowed these people to broadcast themselves to the entire society and gain recognition not for any true valuable contribution but just because they’ve captured the form of presentation for which the consumers have been prepped (after being trained from childhood by the professionals) to be receptive.

So if you’re in the “media” today the way to stay in business is to play the same game everyone else is - make your customer believe they are in control. And the last thing you’re going to want to do, if you’re the media mogul, is to continually challenge your viewer/reader into questioning the product you’re channelling to them. Rather, you want your consumer to believe that their opinion really matters. And you better not offend them by answering back, because your own profit margin is pretty slim to begin with.

That’s what I found a bit surprising about the LA Times editor’s decision the other day to publish their editorial on why they’re not printing climate denialist letters anymore. It’s one of those rare cases today of when an editor really is making a choice based on their evaluation of what is true, rather than what will generate the most traffic.

202 wheat-dogghazi  Mon, Oct 14, 2013 2:52:55am

Great. I went over to my blog to post something, and all I get is server 500 errors. Just what I needed on a free evening.

203 Justanotherhuman  Mon, Oct 14, 2013 2:55:06am

Gawd, this is a great post, Gus, but I’m so fucking tired of getting up in the morning and being put in an immediate foul mood by these motherfuckers (which seems to be my favorite curse these days).

MSNBC just showed the Whore of Babble-on (“Barrycades”—yes, she actually pronounced it that way) and Canadian Ted spewing their bile. The media can stop reporting these events as though they are some latter day revolutionaries, too. They’re racist, homophobic, right wing, reactionary, religious nuts—do your homework, MSM.

Anyone who can’t feel the hate coming from that stinkfest yesterday just isn’t paying attention, or else agrees with these ignorant racists.

Tell you what—give them Texas. Then watch rational talent and those with sense leave the state while their lives are still worth something while the rats take over and decimate it completely. It would become so unlivable and dangerous even the poorest Mexicans wouldn’t want to breech the border. Only kidding about all that, of course, because they deserve nothing of the sort, but you can imagine what would happen.

204 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Oct 14, 2013 2:58:19am

re: #203 Justanotherhuman

It would not be long before they started sealing their borders to prevent pregnant women from leaving the state to obtain abortions.

205 Justanotherhuman  Mon, Oct 14, 2013 3:11:30am

re: #199 goddamnedfrank

You’re on to something. Years ago, when I was most politically active, I often wrote “letters to the editor”. Someone from the paper would call (you had to give them your address, tel #) and get the person’s OK to either publish it as written or make minor changes (such as spelling—never substance). Letters which were nothing more than ad hominem attacks weren’t published, nor were obscene-laden tirades. You also used your real name—you owned what you wrote.

Opinion was shown as opinion, and LTTE were mostly that, because 45 yrs ago, reporters were trained to know the difference between fact and opinion. If they didn’t know a fact they could include in an article, they didn’t speculate about it.

206 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Oct 14, 2013 3:16:37am

re: #205 Justanotherhuman

Opinion was shown as opinion, and LTTE were mostly that, because 45 yrs ago, reporters were trained to know the difference between fact and opinion. If they didn’t know a fact they could include in an article, they didn’t speculate about it.

That was a famous bit from Hunter Thompson back in the 70’s, he annoyed a lot of people by writing things like “there are rumors that…” to which he would add “of course there were rumors, I was the one who started them”.

now it is sufficient to state “there are numerous blog posting asserting that ….” and you have “legitimate” news story.

207 Justanotherhuman  Mon, Oct 14, 2013 3:18:50am

I’m sorry, but Sarah Palin is a sorry racist ignoramus. “…no way for a commander in chief to show respect for vets”. Then backed up by Canadian Ted whose ideology and theology mock his education. What a waste that was.

Lying Whore of Babble-on and over-educated misanthrope, both whose narcissism and lust for fame and money override any sense of decency.

208 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Oct 14, 2013 3:22:00am

re: #207 Justanotherhuman

I’m sorry, but Sarah Palin is a sorry racist ignoramus. “…no way for a commander in chief to show respect for vets”. Then backed up by Canadian Ted whose ideology and theology mock his education. What a waste that was.

Lying Whore of Babble-on and over-educated misanthrope, both whose narcissism and lust for fame and money override any sense of decency.

Sarah is neither a congressperson nor even a public officeholder, she is entitled spew to her heart’s content about the shutdown and who she holds responsible for it.

But I find any member of Congress who uses the shutdown or any of its manifestations as a platform for grandstanding as inexcusable: they have one task right now and that is to work to get the government back running again. After that they can point fingers all they want.

209 wheat-dogghazi  Mon, Oct 14, 2013 3:25:48am

re: #205 Justanotherhuman

You’re on to something. Years ago, when I was most politically active, I often wrote “letters to the editor”. Someone from the paper would call (you had to give them your address, tel #) and get the person’s OK to either publish it as written or make minor changes (such as spelling—never substance). Letters which were nothing more than ad hominem attacks weren’t published, nor were obscene-laden tirades. You also used your real name—you owned what you wrote.

Opinion was shown as opinion, and LTTE were mostly that, because 45 yrs ago, reporters were trained to know the difference between fact and opinion. If they didn’t know a fact they could include in an article, they didn’t speculate about it.

Now, whatever nonsense someone spews in public is considered “fact,” and hardly ever questioned or disputed, least of all on TV news.

I used to work in newspapers. There was staff member specifically assigned to the LTTE “beat” — usually a copy editor, rather than a reporter. The duties were exactly as you state here. But, this was before daily newspapers started to shrink in size and number, and before they became parts of media conglomerates. Staffs are now smaller, and probably no one is delegated the task of moderating online comments.

I’ve noticed some papers use Disqus to handle comments. I think it’s possible to set up Disqus to screen out objectionable language, excessive length, etc. That requires staff, too, though.

210 Justanotherhuman  Mon, Oct 14, 2013 3:36:00am

re: #206 Sol Berdinowitz

That was a famous bit from Hunter Thompson back in the 70’s, he annoyed a lot of people by writing things like “there are rumors that…” to which he would add “of course there were rumors, I was the one who started them”.

now it is sufficient to state “there are numerous blog posting asserting that ….” and you have “legitimate” news story.

HT was the first “journalist” I remember being so self-promoting, self-aggrandizing. Yes, we had famous ones like Edward Murrow, Walter Cronkite, etc., but they earned their fame by what they did, not by their publicity. I always saw HT as something of a misanthrope and misogynist, a libertarian by any other name, even though he sometimes latched on to far left causes (not unusual for libertarians where the convergence occurs). He would have fit right in with today’s dudebros.

211 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Oct 14, 2013 3:45:35am

re: #210 Justanotherhuman

HT was the first “journalist” I remember being so self-promoting, self-aggrandizing. Yes, we had famous ones like Edward Murrow, Walter Cronkite, etc., but they earned their fame by what they did, not by their publicity. I always saw HT as something of a misanthrope and misogynist, a libertarian by any other name, even though he sometimes latched on to far left causes (not unusual for libertarians where the convergence occurs). He would have fit right in with today’s dudebros.

Had HST not already have blown his brains out in 2005, he would have - not long after he saw what happened to the American journalistic and media landscape after 2008…

212 Amory Blaine  Mon, Oct 14, 2013 3:52:18am

I have a friend who is a journalism professor. Things are worse than it looks.

213 Justanotherhuman  Mon, Oct 14, 2013 3:56:45am

re: #211 Sol Berdinowitz

Had HST not already have blown his brains out in 2005, he would have - not long after he saw what happened to the American journalistic and media landscape after 2008…

But wasn’t he the first to promote the idea of inserting yourself into the story? That was part of his self-promotion.

That idea was expanded during the Iraq War as reporters were “embedded” with the troops which I saw as a propaganda effort by the Bush admin to curry favor for the war from the public.

214 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Oct 14, 2013 3:58:01am

Part of what we teach children in school is real “critical thinking” - and not just being critical of anything that Obama says or supports - bur rather teaching students about how the media work, namely that their “product” is not programming or news, but advertising time, and that their content is going to be dictated by whatever they think will optimize the value of their product.

215 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Oct 14, 2013 4:00:56am

re: #213 Justanotherhuman

But wasn’t he the first to promote the idea of inserting yourself into the story? That was part of his self-promotion.

That idea was expanded during the Iraq War as reporters were “embedded” with the troops which I saw as a propaganda effort by the Bush admin to curry favor for the war from the public.

Yes, but it did not mean distorting the story beyond recognition just to raise his own profile. The man had some standards…

Embedded journalists was a pre-emptive move. Wars are full of negative imagery, the admin wanted to maintain control of the images and reports to keep the people from realizing what they were actually paying for.

216 Justanotherhuman  Mon, Oct 14, 2013 4:08:03am

I didn’t mean to ref myself, but SD at #215.

Oh, please. “Blowing your brains out” is no solution. It’s a cowardly act when you have no answers, and also answer to no one, not even those you purport to love.

I can’t imagine hating myself so much I wouldn’t want to live past 50, which is what HT famously said. He always wanted to live a child-like existence, and it showed.

217 Justanotherhuman  Mon, Oct 14, 2013 4:18:15am

What horror for those kids.

Two Doncaster men admit string of sex offences against youngsters

itv.com

Bastards ruined a lot of lives with their sick, criminal activities, including their own families’. At least one is HIV positive.

itv.com

218 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Oct 14, 2013 4:19:29am

re: #216 Justanotherhuman

Oh, please. “Blowing your brains out” is no solution. It’s a cowardly act when you have no answers, and also answer to no one, not even those you purport to love.

I can’t imagine hating myself so much I wouldn’t want to live past 50, which is what HT famously said. He always wanted to live a child-like existence, and it showed.

I did not praise it as any admirable act, but even HST had some sense of standards and I am sure that he would have been too disgusted to go on past 2008 had he lived that long.

219 William Barnett-Lewis  Mon, Oct 14, 2013 4:22:10am

re: #123 goddamnedfrank

YE Gods give it a effin rest. OR will you only be happy when he’s been run off the place? You’re getting as bad as KT about OWS on this.

220 wheat-dogghazi  Mon, Oct 14, 2013 4:22:17am

re: #213 Justanotherhuman

But wasn’t he the first to promote the idea of inserting yourself into the story? That was part of his self-promotion.

That idea was expanded during the Iraq War as reporters were “embedded” with the troops which I saw as a propaganda effort by the Bush admin to curry favor for the war from the public.

It predates Bush. After free-ranging reporters gave honest and at times negative reports during the Vietnam War, the DoD changed the rules to restrict reporters’ mobility by embedding them in a unit. Embedding also limits reporters to what the brass wants them to know.

221 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Oct 14, 2013 4:34:36am

re: #220 wheat-dogghazi

It predates Bush. After free-ranging reporters gave honest and at times negative reports during the Vietnam War, the DoD changed the rules to restrict reporters’ mobility by embedding them in a unit. Embedding also limits reporters to what the brass wants them to know.

And yes, letting reporters be “part of the story” plays into their sense of self-importance and often makes them a lot more pliable.

222 Justanotherhuman  Mon, Oct 14, 2013 4:44:32am

re: #220 wheat-dogghazi

Yes, but never to the extent that Bush used it. I really don’t recall there not being very critical reports from Vietnam in the MSM, either. OTOH, the NeoCons spawned Judith Miller and others who were more than complicit in promoting the invasion of Iraq.

223 wheat-dogghazi  Mon, Oct 14, 2013 4:45:25am

re: #221 Sol Berdinowitz

And yes, letting reporters be “part of the story” plays into their sense of self-importance and often makes them a lot more pliable.

And, being embedded in a unit helps develop a sense of “belonging” and camaraderie, which are not necessarily what a reporter needs to maintain objectivity.

There has been some excellent reporting done during our Middle East and Afghani incursions, but one wonders how much more we would have learned, and how much sooner, had reporters been given the same freedom as they had during the Vietnam War.

224 wheat-dogghazi  Mon, Oct 14, 2013 4:48:18am

re: #222 Justanotherhuman

Yes, but never to the extent that Bush used it. I really don’t recall there not being very critical reports from Vietnam in the MSM, either. OTOH, the NeoCons spawned Judith Miller and others who were more than complicit in promoting the invasion of Iraq.

Back then, the MSM was all we had. I seem to remember some critical reports, and damning photos, from that era, but dimly. The war ended the year after I graduated high school.

225 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Mon, Oct 14, 2013 4:50:27am

re: #219 William Barnett-Lewis

YE Gods give it a effin rest. OR will you only be happy when he’s been run off the place? You’re getting as bad as KT about OWS on this.

What are you talking about? Kirk really is doing this shit, and the shutdown is going on right fucking now. There is zero comparison to OWS.

226 Justanotherhuman  Mon, Oct 14, 2013 4:50:42am

re: #223 wheat-dogghazi

And, being embedded in a unit helps develop a sense of “belonging” and camaraderie, which are not necessarily what a reporter needs to maintain objectivity.

There has been some excellent reporting done during our Middle East and Afghani incursions, but one wonders how much more we would have learned, and how much sooner, had reporters been given the same freedom as they had during the Vietnam War.

You notice how reporters are identified at WH briefings, and such DC pressers? It’s almost as though they live for that, like that FN reporter, who wasn’t called. It’s like the spotlight should be on them, not on asking an unbiased question which might elicit an answer to become part of an objective report.

228 William Barnett-Lewis  Mon, Oct 14, 2013 4:54:19am

re: #225 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

What are you talking about? Kirk really is doing this shit, and the shutdown is going on right fucking now. There is zero comparison to OWS.

DF isn’t going to change by being cudgeled with it. He’ll either dig in his heels further or if you push hard enough and long enough, leave like so many others have to the loss of LGF. If you want him to learn, to change, then you’ll need to change tactics. IF you would be happier running him off the site, then continue. to obsessively pound on him over it sounding like KT whining about leftists and OWS.

229 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Oct 14, 2013 4:57:30am

We can disagree on topics without engaging in personal attacks and insults. Those who make it their trademark to use personal attacks on everyone who responds to them have no place here.

Those kind of people suck.//

230 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Oct 14, 2013 4:59:31am

Ted Cruz with Oathkeepers flag and IMPEACH! sign in the background. (How much MOAR CRAZIE can you find in this picture boys & girls?)

231 Justanotherhuman  Mon, Oct 14, 2013 5:02:52am

re: #224 wheat-dogghazi

Back then, the MSM was all we had. I seem to remember some critical reports, and damning photos, from that era, but dimly. The war ended the year after I graduated high school.

I was in my 20s and early 30s during all that. I remember quite a few “stringers” being in Vietnam. Some of the best stuff came from those folks.

Huynh Cong “Nick” Ut, for instance, was the 21 yr old Vietnamese stringer for AP who took the iconic “Napalm Girl” photo which horrified the world.

Image: 9507b176b1908b0f110f6a7067002999.jpg

232 Amory Blaine  Mon, Oct 14, 2013 5:03:55am

Writers have been injecting themselves into stories for a long time. Ben Franklin used to write LTTE at his own paper for a famous example. The Fairness Doctrine was important but with the lax enforcement of equal time rule I don’t know how much of an effect it has. Every single thing in our society has been reduced to a “product”. Health care and education for examples. Government “must” be run like business and so forth. The commons is being poisoned. Our press is a symptom of our sick society.

Stumbling about in the street is America personified. That deranged Uncle Sam in the ad. A giant inflated head preaching incoherent ramblings. Left arm behind his back with his right fist raised high. Trickling prosperity into the gutter in front of the rest of the world. Who are stepping away. Slowly.

233 Justanotherhuman  Mon, Oct 14, 2013 5:04:12am

re: #230 Vicious Babushka

Ted Cruz with Oathkeepers flag and IMPEACH! sign in the background. (How much MOAR CRAZIE can you find in this picture boys & girls?)

[Embedded content]

Well, the Whore of Babble-on is in the background (in the pink shirt and black vest.

234 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Oct 14, 2013 5:04:43am

re: #219 William Barnett-Lewis

YE Gods give it a effin rest. OR will you only be happy when he’s been run off the place? You’re getting as bad as KT about OWS on this.

Do you enjoy being lied to? Because I don’t.

I’ve been taking it easy actually, because a few people like you just get so uncomfortable when the boat starts rocking. Right now, at this very moment, thanks to you, I just feel like spitting some unvarnished truth for a change. If he stays, if he goes, I really don’t care, that’s up to him.

Dark’s whole act is infuriating in no small part because he cultivates an image of hating himself more than anybody else possibly could, so much that people feel sorry for him and excuse all kinds of absolutely inexcusable shit. Again, I don’t, and I won’t. By all means let’s all rally around the chronically unemployed 35 year old virgin who refuses to think for himself and is certain he’s going to hell because his ability to accurately convey the mindset of a GOP gang member is so valuable.

Knock yourself out, keep telling him how valuable he is to you and how much you like him. I’m sure if you just love him hard enough you’ll finally fix all his awkward, arrested development bullshit. In reality all people like you are doing is coddling a child who either can’t or won’t grow the hell up.

235 Amory Blaine  Mon, Oct 14, 2013 5:04:45am

Holy shit man new feature when you highlight text!

236 Varek Raith  Mon, Oct 14, 2013 5:10:19am

Coffee!!!

237 William Barnett-Lewis  Mon, Oct 14, 2013 5:11:01am

re: #234 goddamnedfrank

So go on, get all OCD about it and pretend to be Captain Truth! and spout your “hard truths”. It’s still harder to take you seriously than it is him for all his flaws. I won’t bother you about it anymore since that’s obviously such a horrible thing to do to you.

238 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Oct 14, 2013 5:26:23am
239 Sol Berdinowitz  Mon, Oct 14, 2013 5:30:23am

re: #238 Vicious Babushka

[Embedded content]

you are not expecting answers, are you? these people are talking out their asses to the echo chamber, they do not address people like you

240 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Oct 14, 2013 5:33:35am

So while all the RWNJ’s are screaming that they guy waving the Secesh flag was a “LIBRUL PLANT!!!1!!” Breitbart says so what’s the horrible, terrible, no good very bad thing about a Secesh flag anyway? We like it!

241 Varek Raith  Mon, Oct 14, 2013 5:38:32am

re: #238 Vicious Babushka

[Embedded content]

IMPEACE!

242 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Oct 14, 2013 5:38:46am

re: #239 Sol Berdinowitz

you are not expecting answers, are you? these people are talking out their asses to the echo chamber, they do not address people like you

The “answers” I am likely to get are HURR HURR TEH GOP IS TEH PARTY OF LINCOLN!!11!! TEH DEMOCRATS IS TEH PARTY OF RACISM & SLAVERY!!!!1111

243 Varek Raith  Mon, Oct 14, 2013 5:39:15am

re: #240 Vicious Babushka

So while all the RWNJ’s are screaming that they guy waving the Secesh flag was a “LIBRUL PLANT!!!1!!” Breitbart says so what’s the horrible, terrible, no good very bad thing about a Secesh flag anyway? We like it!

Liberal plant.

244 Amory Blaine  Mon, Oct 14, 2013 5:39:30am

All my local news station showed the wingnuts at the White House. Not one showed that flag. Not even incidentally in the background. One news guy said it was “powerful stuff”.

245 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Oct 14, 2013 5:40:39am
246 Amory Blaine  Mon, Oct 14, 2013 5:43:22am

Someone has to co-opt that flag. Make it pink. With rainbow bars. Hello Kitties instead of stars or something.

247 Justanotherhuman  Mon, Oct 14, 2013 5:46:00am

Oscar Hijuelos, Who Won Pulitzer for Tale of Cuban-American Life, Dies at 62

nytimes.com

“Oscar Hijuelos, a Cuban-American novelist who wrote about the lives of immigrants adapting to a new culture and became the first Latino to win the Pulitzer Prize for fiction for his 1989 book, “The Mambo Kings Play Songs of Love,” died on Saturday in Manhattan. He was 62.

“Mr. Hijuelos collapsed on a tennis court and never regained consciousness, his wife, Lori Marie Carlson, said. “

248 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Oct 14, 2013 5:47:05am
249 Varek Raith  Mon, Oct 14, 2013 5:47:29am

Image: poster1245.jpg

250 Justanotherhuman  Mon, Oct 14, 2013 5:49:54am

Bill Ayers, on MSNBC just now: “Self-righteousness is deadly.” Reflecting on what he saw as his most egregious errors as a radical.

Something we’re seeing a lot of from the rightwing. Not the apology, the mindset.

251 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Oct 14, 2013 5:57:39am
252 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Mon, Oct 14, 2013 6:13:07am

re: #228 William Barnett-Lewis

DF isn’t going to change by being cudgeled with it.

And how did you arrive at this diagnosis via TCP/IP?

He’ll either dig in his heels further or if you push hard enough and long enough, leave like so many others have to the loss of LGF.

So basically, I should patronize DF, not ask him any tough questions, because if I do he might leave. I reject that. DF is a person, just like I am. He doesn’t benefit from coddling.

If you want him to learn, to change, then you’ll need to change tactics.

Again, what makes you think you understand how to reach him? If you do understand, why haven’t you employed these tactics?

IF you would be happier running him off the site, then continue. to obsessively pound on him over it sounding like KT whining about leftists and OWS.

You apparently didn’t understand what I wrote. Let me be clear:

Mark Kirk took a stance on raising the debt limit, swearing he’d do both. DF reteweeted that promise.

Mark Kirk then voted against cloture on the debt limit. DF then defended this completely reversal of a promise.

DF is being asked to reconcile this stance of his, and this stance of Kirk’s.

This bears zero resemblance to Killgore and OWS. None. There is no similarity whatsoever at all, in any way, shape, or form.


re: #237 William Barnett-Lewis

So go on, get all OCD about it and pretend to be Captain Truth! and spout your “hard truths”.

Using OCD as an insult is also dumb.

253 Political Atheist  Mon, Oct 14, 2013 6:22:38am

re: #228 William Barnett-Lewis

I like having a spectrum of views here as wide as say from Dark on the right to some of our most devout progressives. There is no need to badger anyone, just make our respective points and move on.

254 b.d.  Mon, Oct 14, 2013 6:29:17am

HOW MANY CONFEDERATE FLAGS DO WE HAVE TO FLY BEFORE OBUMMER NEGOTIATES WITH US?!?!?/

255 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Mon, Oct 14, 2013 6:32:48am

re: #253 GOPHostage#25698724

I like having a spectrum of views here as wide as say from Dark on the right to some of our most devout progressives. There is no need to badger anyone, just make our respective points and move on.

The problem is that Dark won’t actually say what his view is, mainly because he’s supporting people who are duplicitious and hypocritical.

Does he support Kirk raising the debt limit? He said he did.

Does he support Kirk voting against raising the debt limit? Also, yes.

So, you see, there’s a contradiction here. It’s not ‘respective point’. It’s an incoherency, and it’s not ‘badgering’ to ask him to explain it.

It’s badgering to say “you’re a dumb conservative and your dumb conservative ideas are dumb, you dummy”.

It’s not badgering to say “you’re being hypocritical in supporting these two diametrically opposed stances” or “How is Kirk a ‘moderate’ when he’s lying his ass off about “Obamacare” in a really stupid way by claiming Obama is afraid of people experiencing it while Kirk simultaneously tries to defund it so no one will experience it?”

256 chadu  Mon, Oct 14, 2013 6:39:21am

re: #255 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

The problem is that Dark won’t actually say what his view is, mainly because he’s supporting people who are duplicitious and hypocritical.

Does he support Kirk raising the debt limit? He said he did.

Does he support Kirk voting against the debt limit? Also, yes.

So, you see, there’s a contradiction here. It’s not ‘respective point’. It’s an incoherency, and it’s not ‘badgering’ to ask him to explain it.

DF does seem to never answer questions of this type, when they’re raised to him. They just vanish in the thread.

I want to hear DF’s take on how he squares thoughts (like the two bits mentioned above) in his own head. I’m honestly curious.

257 Aqua Obama  Mon, Oct 14, 2013 6:52:40am

re: #256 chadu

DF does seem to never answer questions of this type, when they’re raised to him. They just vanish in the thread.

I want to hear DF’s take on how he squares thoughts (like the two bits mentioned above) in his own head. I’m honestly curious.

Nothing drives me more insane than this. People who sincerely want to discuss the issue are ignored and nothing gets in or out because someone is too uncomfortable to pass a certain set of ideological boundaries.

He always runs away when he realizes there is a there is a strong argument forming against his position that is logically irrefutable.

Can’t contradict the party.

258 RealityBasedSteve  Mon, Oct 14, 2013 12:14:25pm

re: #246 Amory Blaine

Someone has to co-opt that flag. Make it pink. With rainbow bars. Hello Kitties instead of stars or something.

Ask and you shall receive….

Confederate Rainbow (with Hello Kitties)

Not bad for 10 minutes of Photo-Shopping.

Enjoy,

RBS


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