House GOPer: “We Want to Make a Deal They Can’t Refuse”

And anyone who doesn’t like it can sleep with the fishes
Politics • Views: 21,236

If House Republicans want to avoid the appearance that they’re running an extortion racket, maybe it would it would be a good idea to refrain from talking like Mafiosi.

Rep. John Fleming (R-LA) told reporters Tuesday that part of the House Republican calculus in its plan to re-open the government and raise the debt limit was trying to leverage the Thursday default deadline to their advantage in their back-and-forth with the Senate.

“We want to make a deal that they can’t refuse, and we’re running out of time,” Fleming said after a two-hour GOP conference meeting Tuesday morning. “Timing is very important here. They’re going to be more motivated to take this up. Otherwise, they miss the Thursday deadline.”

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155 comments
1 Kragar  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 11:59:55am

This is another turd who has gone on the record saying the default is no big deal and crucial to the country.

2 psddluva4evah  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:00:03pm

Is this negotiating in “good faith” —-> House Republicans Trying to Run Out the Clock tinyurl.com

3 GeneJockey  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:00:51pm

re: #1 Kragar

This is another turd who has gone on the record saying the default is no big deal and crucial to the country.

And they welcome this shutdown that Obama is inflicting on us, which affects nobody but is a terrible thing.

4 Charles Johnson  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:00:55pm

Here comes the default, folks.

5 Amory Blaine  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:01:08pm

You can tell many of our lawmakers have never changed their hairstyle from childhood.

6 erik_t  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:01:38pm

At least half-serious: the Democrats should offer the concession that they’ll allow the House to vote to impeach the President.

That’s a hell of a slab of red meat for the ‘Bagger base.

7 GeneJockey  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:01:41pm

re: #4 Charles Johnson

Here comes the default, folks.

[Embedded content]

Fuck.

8 Kragar  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:02:02pm

re: #4 Charles Johnson

Here comes the default, folks.

[Embedded content]


Gohmert Pushes Impeachment: Obama ‘Getting Close to a High Crime and Misdemeanor’

9 Charles Johnson  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:02:54pm
10 Amory Blaine  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:03:09pm

Is our money even safe in a bank?

12 The Mountain That Blogs  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:03:15pm

re: #6 erik_t

The response? That’s not a concession, we can do that any time we please, and you bet we will be doing so if the President defaults or if he doesn’t.

13 Internet Tough Guy  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:03:19pm

Fuck the Republican Party forever sideways.

14 klys  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:03:37pm

I wonder how long the Tea Party will last when social security checks stop going out.

The necessity of the debt ceiling being raised will become VERY apparent at that point.

15 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:04:18pm

COMING SOON TO THE NEW AMERICA:

16 kerFuFFler  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:04:19pm

“Timing is very important here. They’re going to be more motivated to take this up. Otherwise, they miss the Thursday deadline.”

What part of the dems not being willing to pay a ransom do they not get?

I would consider a small democratic concession for legislation that PERMANENTLY addresses the debt ceiling issue so this crap can never happen again.

17 missliberties  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:04:24pm

Can we censure the tea party and run them out of town?

18 The Mountain That Blogs  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:04:27pm

There is absolutely no reason for any of this. What the fuck is wrong with these people?

19 Shiplord Kirel  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:04:33pm

If the ‘baggers truly understood the consequences of default, it would be easy to make THEM an offer they can’t refuse: Give us what we want and you don’t have to worry about being tarred, feathered, and run out of town on a rail by your erstwhile corporate partners.

20 Kragar  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:05:01pm

New GOP demand: overturn the surrender terms at Appomattox

21 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:05:08pm

They’re still playing fucking games.

22 klys  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:06:09pm

re: #16 kerFuFFler

“Timing is very important here. They’re going to be more motivated to take this up. Otherwise, they miss the Thursday deadline.”

What part of the dems not being willing to pay a ransom do they not get?

I would consider a small democratic concession for legislation that PERMANENTLY addresses the debt ceiling issue so this crap can never happen again.

Go back to tying the implicit raising of the debt ceiling to the passage of the budget that dictates the spending. That’s the only rider I would accept on the raising of the debt ceiling.

23 Killgore Trout  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:07:10pm

re: #10 Amory Blaine

Is our money even safe in a bank?

Nope. Move your gold and seeds into the survival bunker! The end is near!

24 Dr Lizardo  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:07:57pm

re: #4 Charles Johnson

Here comes the default, folks.

[Embedded content]

Youtube Video

25 Dr Lizardo  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:08:25pm

re: #17 missliberties

Can we censure the tea party and run them out of town?

Charge them seditious conspiracy.

26 Eclectic Cyborg  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:08:34pm

Reposted from downstairs:

OT: Thank you cold hearted health insurance company, for you have apparently decided a procedure to alleviate my wifes CHRONIC back pain and allow her to live considerably more comfortably is in fact NOT medically necessary and therefore refuse to foot the bill.

This is back pain that, by the way, sometimes makes it almost IMPOSSIBLE for her to move.

Screw you,
Signed One pissed off Husband

27 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:08:42pm
28 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:09:27pm

There is no such thing as a safe investment if we default. It basically weakens the entire system and spreads massive uncertainty.

29 Eclectic Cyborg  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:10:55pm

Ok, here’s how we settle this:

We choose 10 Democrats and 10 Republicans and send them into the Octagon for a Battle Royale. There can only be a single victor. Whoever comes out in one piece…wins and and the other side concedes the debt limit fight to that person.

Would certainly make C-SPAN a hell of a lot more entertaining wouldn’t it?

30 klys  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:11:00pm

re: #23 Killgore Trout

Nope. Move your gold and seeds into the survival bunker! The end is near!

/yawn

I think I give that a 2/10. Not very effective, need to troll harder.

31 Kragar  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:11:02pm

re: #28 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

There is no such thing as a safe investment if we default. It basically weakens the entire system and spreads massive uncertainty.

Well, guns and gyrocopters will probably be a safe bet.

Image: gyrocopter.jpg

32 missliberties  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:11:06pm

re: #14 klys

I wonder how long the Tea Party will last when social security checks stop going out.

The necessity of the debt ceiling being raised will become VERY apparent at that point.

Or the veterans losing their disability checks.

They must get even with teh BlackHitler in the WH.

Why would anyone have any respect for these people? Why? Why? Why?

33 lawhawk  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:11:28pm

Meanwhile, GOPers are busy claiming that it’s the Democrats fault.

Facts are stubborn things.

But for the GOP refusal to allow a clean CR, we would not have a shutdown.
But for the GOP refusal to allow a clean debt ceiling hike, we would not have a default.

The GOP, and the GOP alone, is the reason that we’re heading for a default.

They continually claim that they’re all for fiscal responsibility and reducing the size of government, and yet the actions they’ve taken aren’t about responsibility or reducing the size of government. They’re about abdicating their responsibilities and engaging in slash and burn to destroy the government, and more specifically President Obama and the ACA / Obamacare because they couldn’t achieve that result by all the other attempted means (legislation, litigation, and elections).

They’ve zeroed in on default and shutdown as a means to extort concessions that no sane politician would ever accept (because if the situations were reversed, we’d see the GOP yelling for recall elections and charges brought against those threatening default and extortionist actions).

The GOP brought this on themselves. They have no one to blame but themselves. It’s not just the TP. The leadership went along with them for the ride, and they’ve bought into this course of action.

But here’s the thing, GOPers are engaging in one heck of a case of projection and DARVO to cast blame on Democrats for their actions, and the media continues to play along with the MBF.

There’s no way around this unless the GOP controlled House allows clean bills to come up.

And that’s where we stand. Waiting on a dysfunctional House GOP that can’t even count for the votes to decide on the fate of the global economy and national economy. It sucks, but there’s a way to change this - work to defeat the GOP at every level of government and cast them into the wilderness permanently. They’ve shown themselves incapable of governing - this TP/GOP extortionism cannot be allowed to stand.

34 Shiplord Kirel  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:12:12pm

It’s obvious now that the corporate Frankensteins have lost control of their Tea Party monster. If they hadn’t, they would already have stepped in to stop this.

35 Kragar  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:12:42pm

Hey GOP, if this whole shutdown is Obama’s clever plan, why don’t you show him who is boss and fund the government, just to fuck with him?

36 Eclectic Cyborg  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:12:43pm

I am convinced the GOP is convinced that forcing a default is the only way they will get to see any kind of meaningful spending cuts and that’s why they are insisting on holding the course with this nonsense,

37 Interesting Times  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:12:47pm

re: #26 Eclectic Cyborg

Reposted from downstairs:

OT: Thank you cold hearted health insurance company, for you have apparently decided a procedure to alleviate my wifes CHRONIC back pain and allow her to live considerably more comfortably is in fact NOT medically necessary and therefore refuse to foot the bill.

This is back pain that, by the way, sometimes makes it almost IMPOSSIBLE for her to move.

Screw you,
Signed One pissed off Husband

Too bad she couldn’t have moved to Canada to be with you instead of the other way around :-/ (if there’s even the slightest chance you could pull it off, however, I seriously suggest it - America is in even worse trouble than I could have ever imagined…)

38 Amory Blaine  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:13:18pm

Creative destruction.

39 Dr Lizardo  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:13:30pm

re: #29 Eclectic Cyborg

Ok, here’s how we settle this:

We choose 10 Democrats and 10 Republicans and send them into the Octagon for a Battle Royale. There can only be a single victor. Whoever comes out in one piece…wins and and the other side concedes the debt limit fight to that person.

Would certainly make C-SPAN a hell of a lot more entertaining wouldn’t it?

Will they have the explosive collars like they did in Battle Royale?

40 Eclectic Cyborg  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:13:42pm

re: #37 Interesting Times

I actually made the decision to come to America (long story). We could go the other way if need be but unfortunately it’s not feasible right now (I wish it were).

41 Varek Raith  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:14:30pm

God dammit.

42 calochortus  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:15:28pm

Well, I’m depressed enough for the moment-although I still find it hard to believe the GOP is willing to cause that kind of financial pain to their constituents donors.
It is a beautiful Fall day outside and I’m going to enjoy it for a while.

43 psddluva4evah  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:15:36pm

Oh plz…Lindsey!

44 GeneJockey  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:15:57pm

re: #36 Eclectic Cyborg

I am convinced the GOP is convinced that forcing a default is the only way they will get to see any kind of meaningful spending cuts and that’s why they are insisting on holding the course with this nonsense,

It’s no longer even spending cuts. They were fine with the spending levels from the sequester, if they could defund Obamacare. Then they were fine with it, if they could delay Obamacare. Now they’re not even talking about Obamacare, but rather some nebulous ‘victory’.

45 missliberties  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:16:16pm

re: #10 Amory Blaine

Is our money even safe in a bank?

Your money in the bank will benefit from higher interest rates brought to you by default.

46 erik_t  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:16:36pm

re: #43 psddluva4evah

Oh plz…Lindsey!

@sahilkapur Lindsey Graham says Rs overplayed their hand and now Dems should “for the good of the country, kinda give a little.”

“We asked for more than we should have asked for, therefore you should give us stuff”?

These people are mental.

47 Amory Blaine  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:17:34pm

Just give me a taste and you’ll never see me again.

48 GeneJockey  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:17:54pm

re: #43 psddluva4evah

Oh plz…Lindsey!

[Embedded content]

“We fucked up, so we need you to give us something.”

Shoulda just let Boehner steal a White House ashtray and call it victory.

49 Internet Tough Guy  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:17:57pm
Lindsey Graham says Rs overplayed their hand and now Dems should “for the good of the country, kinda give a little.”

LOL NOPE

/everyone outside the Tea Party

50 Kragar  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:18:50pm

re: #43 psddluva4evah

Oh plz…Lindsey!

[Embedded content]

All I want is for every Republican in Congress to drag themselves across the National Mall, beg forgiveness and do the right thing.

Now, while they get ready, I have broken glass and rusty nails to gather in preparation.

51 klys  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:18:52pm

re: #43 psddluva4evah

Oh plz…Lindsey!

[Embedded content]

I laugh at a Republican talking about “for the good of the country.”

52 Amory Blaine  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:19:04pm

re: #45 missliberties
Maybe I’ll finally get 1%!!

53 b.d.  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:19:14pm

Congress is managing to do to the USA what al qaeda only dreamed of.

54 ObserverArt  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:20:03pm

I’m so sick of Lindsey Graham. That is all.

No wait. I am so sick of ALL Republicans right now. I do not know a one of them I have respect for. Not one.

55 Interesting Times  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:20:31pm

re: #53 b.d.

Congress is managing to do to the USA what al qaeda only dreamed of.

Hence why it’s not in the least bit out of line to refer to GOPers as terrorists. They have the same goals at this point anyway.

56 CuriousLurker  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:20:36pm

Drive-by stress relief: Puppies! ;-)

57 Dr Lizardo  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:20:55pm

Dr. Lizardo finds an answer in the US Code.

codes.lp.findlaw.com

codes.lp.findlaw.com

And if I were POTUS, I’d do it in a heartbeat.

58 klys  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:21:09pm

A moment of zen.

59 makeitstop  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:22:09pm

Hm. Not sure of the veracity of this - I got it from a wingnut friend’s FB feed. Via ‘Daily Currant’ (whatever that is)…

Republicans in the House of Representatives have scheduled impeachment proceedings against President Obama, claiming his inability to halt the federal government shutdown makes him unfit for office.

Congresswoman Michele Bachmann introduced a resolution to impeach Obama this morning and referred the matter to the House Judiciary Committee. Senior aides close to judiciary chairman Bob Goodlatte say hearings will begin Thursday.

60 Shiplord Kirel  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:22:15pm

I have a suggestion for the ‘baggers: If you don’t like it here, move to Russia. Hey, they don’t have FEMA camp or gay marriage there and their honcho is white. What more could you want?

61 Backwoods_Sleuth  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:23:07pm

re: #59 makeitstop

Hm. Not sure of the veracity of this - I got it from a wingnut friend’s FB feed. Via ‘Daily Currant’ (whatever that is)…

Daily Currant is a satire website, like The Onion.

62 Interesting Times  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:23:07pm

re: #59 makeitstop

Hm. Not sure of the veracity of this - I got it from a wingnut friend’s FB feed. Via ‘Daily Currant’ (whatever that is)…

Daily Currant is a satire site, like the Onion, only less forthcoming about it. I can hardly blame you for being confused, however.

63 missliberties  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:23:10pm

re: #34 Shiplord Kirel

It’s obvious now that the corporate Frankensteins have lost control of their Tea Party monster. If they hadn’t, they would already have stepped in to stop this.

I hear that Boner was ignoring calls from business leaders.

We will have a default. The stock market will sink like a rock. The tea party will celebrate? because they screwed every retiree over and as a bonus screwed foreign investors.

This will be like Tarp. The first vote failed. The second one will be successful, but the cost to our economy will be huge. Is it worth it to get rid of the tea party forever. Well, after today, I say yes it is.

64 Backwoods_Sleuth  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:23:48pm

re: #62 Interesting Times

nanoseconds!!!

65 Aunty Entity Dragon  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:23:49pm

re: #4 Charles Johnson

Here comes the default, folks.

[Embedded content]

I see absolutely no way to avoid it now.

So we get to have our Road Warrior future?

66 Dancing along the light of day  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:23:57pm

Frank says:

Never stop until your good becomes better, and your better becomes the best.

Just, this.

67 makeitstop  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:24:26pm

re: #61 Backwoods_Sleuth

re: #62 Interesting Times

Ah. Thanks.

For a site that wants to be like The Onion, they sure do skimp on teh funny.

68 missliberties  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:24:28pm

re: #49 Internet Tough Guy

LOL NOPE

/everyone outside the Tea Party

No matter what they get the Tea Party will not be satisfied. They are insane. But when will Boner and McC figure that out? I say we are headed for default.

69 Dr Lizardo  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:24:55pm

re: #65 celticdragon

I see absolutely no way to avoid it now.

So we get to have our Road Warrior future?

Absolutely.

Image: Lord_Humungus.jpg

70 psddluva4evah  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:25:15pm
71 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:26:12pm

re: #67 makeitstop

Ah. Thanks.

For a site that wants to be like The Onion, they sure do skimp on teh funny.

They’re more into pwn3ge than humor.

72 danarchy  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:26:14pm

re: #59 makeitstop

Hm. Not sure of the veracity of this - I got it from a wingnut friend’s FB feed. Via ‘Daily Currant’ (whatever that is)…

Daily Currant is a satirical site like the onion, only not as good.

73 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:26:19pm
74 Amory Blaine  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:26:57pm

This constant shifting of priorities shows how political this is. They wont be able to dodge that.

75 Aunty Entity Dragon  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:27:08pm

re: #27 Vicious Babushka

[Embedded content]

I read this morning that T-Bills are already going pear shaped compared to Canadian T-Bills…

76 lawhawk  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:27:38pm
77 GeneJockey  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:27:54pm

Here’s more irony - the Tea Party insists on American Exceptionalism as if it were 1) wisdom handed down by God, and 2) unquestionable in perpetuity.

But by their very actions, they may well make us completely unexceptional.

78 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:29:04pm
79 Amory Blaine  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:29:22pm

2 wars off the books, a massive tax cut for the rich. Default. Are they trying to tell us something?

80 Ming  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:29:34pm

The people who make campaign contributions to these right-wing nutcase members of Congress need to announce that they will make no further campaign contributions, until this threat of extortion is PERMANENTLY taken off the table.

81 lawhawk  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:30:10pm

re: #79 Amory Blaine

Math doesn’t apply to them.

82 AntonSirius  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:30:14pm
Timing is very important here. They’re going to be more motivated to take this up. Otherwise, they miss the Thursday deadline.

No, you stupid fuckwad, not “they” - ALL OF US. We ALL miss the deadline, and we ALL suffer as a result.

Asshole. Just die of syphilis already, you useless waste of oxygen.

83 Ian G.  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:30:55pm

I’m seriously beginning to wonder if American democracy will survive this. Whatever else this madness is, it is in no way democracy. We’re under the control of a tiny doomsday cult that has rejected the possibility that the other side might have democratic legitimacy. It really is 1860 all over again. I just hope the President has the kind of balls of steel that Lincoln did. On the plus side, he’s dealing with a much, much weaker opponent than Lincoln did.

84 Targetpractice  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:32:41pm

Before we start jumping out windows…

85 erik_t  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:33:30pm

re: #84 Targetpractice

Before we start jumping out windows…

TOO LATE BYEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

86 Aunty Entity Dragon  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:33:48pm

re: #77 GeneJockey

Here’s more irony - the Tea Party insists on American Exceptionalism as if it were 1) wisdom handed down by God, and 2) unquestionable in perpetuity.

But by their very actions, they may well make us completely unexceptional.

I really do think we are seeing the beginning of the end of our current form of government.

Government literally has to be able to pay it’s own bills and keep the lights on. Right now, we are set so that a minority can literally derail even the most basic functions of running a nation state, and that minority show every sign of continuing to do so for the foreseeable future. We have literally become ungovernable under the rules and laws we set forth, and that was predicted by a Spanish political scientist back in the 90s who said that there is no device by which a president and a legislature can both claim legitimacy from the electorate without eventually destroying the government.

He died last year before this came to pass…

87 GeneJockey  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:34:23pm

re: #84 Targetpractice

Before we start jumping out windows…

[Embedded content]

I seriously believe the only reason the Dow hasn’t dropped 1000+ points is that nobody can quite believe that there’s not a Deus ex Machina in the wings.

88 ObserverArt  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:35:11pm

re: #80 Ming

The people who make campaign contributions to these right-wing nutcase members of Congress need to announce that they will make no further campaign contributions, until this threat of extortion is PERMANENTLY taken off the table.

It may have not been announced but it sure as hell is being talked about. I heard a report today that wall street types are already sending the message. It will only increase in the next few days. Same report said Tea Party types don’t feel influenced by that. I guess that hints they get their bucks from organizations and churches. But that money still comes people they are still going to piss off.

Have they thought any of this through? Sure as hell seems like pure fly by ass.

I can understand why there is talk of the House passing something and then getting out of town. I don’t they quite understand yet, they may have no place to go.

They may think they hear from their constituents back home and that is safe. I don’t think they have heard from the (silent) majority. They are about to hear from people they never new existed.

89 GeneJockey  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:35:17pm

re: #86 celticdragon

I really do think we are seeing the beginning of the end of our current form of government.

Government literally has to be able to pay it’s own bills and keep the lights on. Right now, we are set so that a minority can literally derail even the most basic functions of running a nation state, and that minority show every sign of continuing to do so for the foreseeable future. We have literally become ungovernable under the rules and laws we set forth, and that was predicted by a Spanish political scientist back in the 90s who said that there is no device by which a president and a legislature can both claim legitimacy from the electorate without eventually destroying the government.

He died last year before this came to pass…

Lucky bastard
///only partly

90 Ming  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:35:46pm

re: #63 missliberties

…This will be like Tarp. The first vote failed. The second one will be successful, but the cost to our economy will be huge. Is it worth it to get rid of the tea party forever. Well, after today, I say yes it is.

The first TARP vote failed on Monday, September 29, 2008. The second TARP vote succeeded on Friday, October 3, 2008: and it was a new fiscal year! So that $700 billion or so can be blamed on the new, incoming president!

These people know what they’re doing, and they know what’s going on. They know they’re taking the economy to the edge of a cliff.

91 Kragar  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:35:56pm
92 Targetpractice  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:36:18pm

re: #87 GeneJockey

I seriously believe the only reason the Dow hasn’t dropped 1000+ points is that nobody can quite believe that there’s not a Deus ex Machina in the wings.

Pretty much. One thing to keep in mind is that, with the goverment shutdown, we stopped spending a lot of money. While it won’t forestall a default, it has added a bit of cushion, such that some experts are now saying that the true date may be somewhere between the 22nd and the 1st of next month. So the market may be thinking “17th is now a political date, may be safe if we get a deal before the 22nd.”

93 erik_t  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:36:32pm

re: #87 GeneJockey

I seriously believe the only reason the Dow hasn’t dropped 1000+ points is that nobody can quite believe that there’s not a Deus ex Machina in the wings.

Frankly, that is the only reason I’m not at home drinking.

94 ObserverArt  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:36:48pm

re: #85 erik_t

TOO LATE BYEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Damn…didn’t even have time to add “cruel world!”

95 Aunty Entity Dragon  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:36:56pm

re: #85 erik_t

TOO LATE BYEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

If defenestration is in the works for some folks in the House, may I suggest an improved version of the Prague:1618 event without the horse manure that broke the 70 foot drop…

If that is too uncivil, I understand.

96 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:37:07pm
97 Eclectic Cyborg  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:37:12pm

If the GOP gets anything out of this it will become the mother of all Pyrrhic victories.

98 Ian G.  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:37:41pm

re: #86 celticdragon

I really do think we are seeing the beginning of the end of our current form of government.

Government literally has to be able to pay it’s own bills and keep the lights on. Right now, we are set so that a minority can literally derail even the most basic functions of running a nation state, and that minority show every sign of continuing to do so for the foreseeable future. We have literally become ungovernable under the rules and laws we set forth, and that was predicted by a Spanish political scientist back in the 90s who said that there is no device by which a president and a legislature can both claim legitimacy from the electorate without eventually destroying the government.

He died last year before this came to pass…

That’s what I was thinking about: the Chile example of the 1970s. I don’t think there’s a right-wing military dictator who will take over, however, as the extreme right in this country is just too weak to take over in a coup d’etat (and they don’t have a patron like Nixon/Kissinger). I don’t know what will happen, but I think our current form of government is finished. Perhaps we’ll eventually get a parliamentary system to replace it.

99 piratedan  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:38:28pm

what I am shocked at is how many Republican staffers are still at their jobs. They’ve just been witness to their own employers publicly tossing them under the bus and essentially classifying them as part of the lazy government moocher class. If they had any self respect, I would have told them that I resign and they can answer their own damn phones, draft their own legislation and organize their own damn campaigns and to fuck right the fuck off.

100 Eclectic Cyborg  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:38:50pm

A Parliamentary system would be useful right about now. Then we could just sink this bitch, have an election and hopefully elect people who wouldn’t put us in such a horrible predicament.

101 GeneJockey  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:39:15pm

re: #92 Targetpractice

Pretty much. One thing to keep in mind is that, with the goverment shutdown, we stopped spending a lot of money. While it won’t forestall a default, it has added a big of cushion, such that some experts are now saying that the true date may be somewhere between the 22nd and the 1st of next month. So the market may be thinking “17th is now a political date, may be safe if we get a deal before the 22nd.”

As a procrastinator of long experience, I shudder to think what it will mean if the TPGOP hears this. Pushing a deadline just means you have more days to dick around.

102 Targetpractice  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:39:15pm

So we have Reid and McConnell putting talks on pause, while Boehner’s working like mad to craft a deal that can get through the House purely on Republicans votes.

This is a goddamned Greek tragedy.

103 Eclectic Cyborg  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:39:25pm

re: #99 piratedan

what I am shocked at is how many Republican staffers are still at their jobs. They’ve just been witness to their own employers publicly tossing them under the bus and essentially classifying them as part of the lazy government moocher class. If they had any self respect, I would have told them that I resign and they can answer their own damn phones, draft their own legislation and organize their own damn campaigns and to fuck right the fuck off.

I suspect many of these staffers have political ambitions of their own. Inside contacts are useful.

104 erik_t  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:39:35pm

re: #99 piratedan

what I am shocked at is how many Republican staffers are still at their jobs. They’ve just been witness to their own employers publicly tossing them under the bus and essentially classifying them as part of the lazy government moocher class. If they had any self respect, I would have told them that I resign and they can answer their own damn phones, draft their own legislation and organize their own damn campaigns and to fuck right the fuck off.

Unlike economies, people still have to pay their bills.

Or something.

(Fuck the GOP.)

105 Dr Lizardo  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:39:42pm

re: #87 GeneJockey

I seriously believe the only reason the Dow hasn’t dropped 1000+ points is that nobody can quite believe that there’s not a Deus ex Machina in the wings.

They’re in a state of disbelief; much like that Czech student told me about today.

106 Kragar  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:39:57pm

Poll: Huge Majority Of Tea Partiers Think Debt Limit Is No Big Deal

They also think the world is 6000 years old and all humanity came from 2 people.

107 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:40:47pm

Meanwhile wingnuts keep spreading the meme that the “Debt Ceiling” is like a “credit limit” on the “Government Visa Card”

They are insane.

108 ObserverArt  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:40:54pm

re: #99 piratedan

what I am shocked at is how many Republican staffers are still at their jobs. They’ve just been witness to their own employers publicly tossing them under the bus and essentially classifying them as part of the lazy government moocher class. If they had any self respect, I would have told them that I resign and they can answer their own damn phones, draft their own legislation and organize their own damn campaigns and to fuck right the fuck off.

They were joking about that on Alex Wagners show on MSNBC at noon. It and maybe a bit of the first part of Tweety is all I can handle these days.

I get me news from the LGF Members Filter. It’s great.

109 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:41:34pm

re: #99 piratedan

what I am shocked at is how many Republican staffers are still at their jobs. They’ve just been witness to their own employers publicly tossing them under the bus and essentially classifying them as part of the lazy government moocher class. If they had any self respect, I would have told them that I resign and they can answer their own damn phones, draft their own legislation and organize their own damn campaigns and to fuck right the fuck off.

You mean like that unpaid intern who manages Steve Stockman’s Twitter feed?

110 Hercules Grytpype-Thynneghazi  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:42:20pm
And anyone who doesn’t like it can sleep with the fishes

It’s the world economy that will end up sleeping with the fishes.

111 Targetpractice  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:42:49pm

re: #107 Vicious Babushka

Meanwhile wingnuts keep spreading the meme that the “Debt Ceiling” is like a “credit limit” on the “Government Visa Card”

They are insane.

Gotta remember that, in their minds, they’re still going by the “house accounting” BS. Of course it makes sense to them, because they see things like SS and Medicare as “unnecessary spending,” without acknowledging that in order to make interest payments, we’re also going to have to gut a lot of the spending that they do agree with.

112 Aunty Entity Dragon  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:43:26pm

re: #103 Eclectic Cyborg

I suspect many of these staffers have political ambitions of their own. Inside contacts are useful.

yep. They are there to get tickets punched and not for the health care.

You saw that back in 2004 when a bunch of low level GOP staffers fresh out of college were sent to set up the new traffic system and stock market in Baghdad. Unbelievable. A prof from the Clarmont McKenna wrote about seeing these kids doing stuff that they had no idea how to even start in a country that was starting up a major insurgency. He was told several times that they were “punching tickets” on the way to bigger and better things in the GOP…

113 Ian G.  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:43:27pm

re: #106 Kragar

Poll: Huge Majority Of Tea Partiers Think Debt Limit Is No Big Deal

They also think the world is 6000 years old and all humanity came from 2 people.

And the earth is cooling.

114 ObserverArt  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:43:30pm

If you are a Republican Rep, you better make sure all your data is secure from your aides.

Just saying.

Hello…Wikileaks…yeah I have some dirt on Darrell Issa…

115 prairiefire  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:44:22pm

Our nation is being held captive by a small band of elected idiots.

116 Hercules Grytpype-Thynneghazi  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:44:34pm

re: #48 GeneJockey

“We fucked up, so we need you to give us something.”

Shoulda just let Boehner steal a White House ashtray and call it victory.

Is there an extra bust of WInston Churchill he could have?

117 Ian G.  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:45:29pm

politico.com

Ted Cruz’ political career is finished. He’ll probably be primaried by a business-connected “moderate” when he comes up for re-election and slink off to the dustbin of history with Joe McCarthy, Charles Coughlin, and John C. Calhoun.

118 Kragar  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:45:34pm

Your modern GOP

Youtube Video

119 Targetpractice  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:46:04pm


For those wondering what “Force Senate to consider” means, that’s code for “vote and then get the fuck out of Dodge.”

120 Aunty Entity Dragon  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:46:04pm

re: #114 ObserverArt

If you are a Republican Rep, you better make sure all your data is secure from your aides.

Just saying.

Hello…Wikileaks…yeah I have some dirt on Darrell Issa…

In a not so humorous vein, CIA insiders have warned that lack of pay is raising huge issues for intel folks who might be turned by an overseas agency…

121 ObserverArt  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:46:35pm

re: #117 Ian G.

politico.com

Ted Cruz’ political career is finished. He’ll probably be primaried by a business-connected “moderate” when he comes up for re-election and slink off to the dustbin of history with Joe McCarthy, Charles Coughlin, and John C. Calhoun.

Ted Cruz Tonight on Fox TV late night.

122 Aunty Entity Dragon  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:47:21pm

re: #117 Ian G.

politico.com

Ted Cruz’ political career is finished. He’ll probably be primaried by a business-connected “moderate” when he comes up for re-election and slink off to the dustbin of history with Joe McCarthy, Charles Coughlin, and John C. Calhoun.

He will not be primaried in Texas…at least not yet. Even then, he would make millions on the wingnut welfare train and go to Heritage or the AEI.

123 Kragar  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:47:38pm

re: #117 Ian G.

politico.com

Ted Cruz’ political career is finished. He’ll probably be primaried by a business-connected “moderate” when he comes up for re-election and slink off to the dustbin of history with Joe McCarthy, Charles Coughlin, and John C. Calhoun.

And Bryan Fischer sits in the corner crying, wishing that the grown ups would stop fighting.

“Why are Mikey and Teddy using their outside voices?”

124 piratedan  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:47:58pm

re: #104 erik_t

I would imagine that the whirring sound that we hear in the background is the sound of new resume’s being brushed up and tweaked for submission back into the private sector…….

I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s a lot of sick days being taken this afternoon and tomorrow.

125 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:48:18pm
126 Targetpractice  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:48:41pm

Thing about it is that, if the House GOP seriously does pull the “vote and run” business, they can only be gone 3 days. Anything recess that goes longer has to be approved by the Senate, else they’re in violation of Article 1, Section 5 of the Constitution. Only way they could beat that would be to gavel in “pro-forma” sessions, but doing that while the economy burns would be suicidal.

127 Varek Raith  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:49:13pm

re: #125 Vicious Babushka

[Embedded content]

AAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

128 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:49:53pm

I’ll bet Erick son of Erick also didn’t know a single person who voted for Obama, so how could he have won the election?

129 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:50:28pm
130 klys  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:50:34pm

re: #125 Vicious Babushka

What being the party of anti-intellectualism gets you: a lot of uneducated supporters who are proud of their idiocy and actively resist changing it.

131 Dr Lizardo  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:50:45pm

re: #125 Vicious Babushka

[Embedded content]

This from a bunch of people who think “The Flinstones” is a documentary. I’ll look for economic advice elsewhere, thanks.

*headdesk*

132 freetoken  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:50:57pm

re: #86 celticdragon

I really do think we are seeing the beginning of the end of our current form of government.

I don’t. This is part of a very long process, though, of de-legitimizing the current political structure of having two national “parties”; at least in their current form.

There is a dynamic that exists between: the rich and powerful and their means of controlling the dialogue in DC, and the average person who pays too little attention but who still votes.

The tea-partiers claim their organizations are “grass roots” but as was shown by many people in 2008 and 2009 that is not true. The “Tea Party” is a tool to manipulate those who can be bought with the right slogan.

The manipulating of masses of people through rhetoric and propaganda is not new.

In the next few election cycles the local and regional changes in America will force especially the GOP to change. Indeed, what we are seeing now and the past couple of years is, I propose, an attempt by a minority of ideologues to get ahead of the steam roller that is bearing down on the party.

133 Targetpractice  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:51:07pm

re: #128 Vicious Babushka

I’ll bet Erick son of Erick also didn’t know a single person who voted for Obama, so how could he have won the election?

[Embedded content]

Of course they’re not talking default, Erick, because they deny that it could ever happen. Sure, we’ll be taking 20% of federal spending off the table and pretty much plunging the nation back into recession, but we’ll still make sure that Asian loan-sharks are getting their payments on time.

134 Aunty Entity Dragon  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:51:13pm

re: #125 Vicious Babushka

[Embedded content]

And that about wraps it up. The magical thinking people are going to blow up the house, burn down the neighborhood and play at being Job, sitting in the ashes and thanking God for all the blessings…

I wonder how that figure correlates with the 50% of Republicans who think an armed insurrection may be “necessary” in the near future.

135 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:51:19pm

re: #130 klys

What being the party of anti-intellectualism gets you: a lot of uneducated supporters who are proud of their idiocy and actively resist changing it.

I can deal with the ignorance, it’s the intentional and deliberate Turnspeak that drives me insane.

136 ObserverArt  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:51:33pm

re: #127 Varek Raith

AAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Welcome to America. Knowledge is a mystery.

Ummm, uh, Huh?

137 makeitstop  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:51:38pm

re: #119 Targetpractice

[Embedded content]


For those wondering what “Force Senate to consider” means, that’s code for “vote and then get the fuck out of Dodge.”

Isn’t that exactly what they put up this morning - that didn’t get enough votes to get out of the House?

I guess that ‘force Senate to consider’ will satisfy all those little fucking pyromaniacs in the Burn It All Down Caucus, though.

138 Aunty Entity Dragon  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:52:44pm

re: #129 Vicious Babushka

[Embedded content]

There we go…

Rats. Sinking ship.

This has an utterly surreal feeling.

139 Targetpractice  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:53:28pm

re: #137 makeitstop

Isn’t that exactly what they put up this morning - that didn’t get enough votes to get out of the House?

I guess that ‘force Senate to consider’ will satisfy all those little fucking pyromaniacs in the Burn It All Down Caucus, though.

If they do manage to pass the bill, it’ll go to the Senate where Reid will rightly use a majority vote to kill the Vitter Amendment and then send the whole damned thing back to the House. If Boehner and his sackless pack of fuckwits have really skipped town by that time, then they might as well start composing their resignation letters.

140 GeneJockey  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:53:59pm

re: #137 makeitstop

Isn’t that exactly what they put up this morning - that didn’t get enough votes to get out of the House?

I guess that ‘force Senate to consider’ will satisfy all those little fucking pyromaniacs in the Burn It All Down Caucus, though.

They’re still trying to tune it up to get 218 Republican votes, which really takes the Hastert Rule to ridiculous extremes. IIRC, the Hastert rule is that any bill brought to a vote should have majority support of the GOP, not that any bill brought to a vote must have the support of a majority composed entirely of the GOP.

141 blueraven  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:54:41pm

re: #119 Targetpractice


For those wondering what “Force Senate to consider” means, that’s code for “vote and then get the fuck out of Dodge.”

So they are going to die on the hill that will force Congressional aides to pay much more for health insurance?

nuts

142 Targetpractice  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:54:58pm
143 Varek Raith  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:55:57pm

re: #127 Varek Raith

AAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

I’m…

annoyed

.

144 Targetpractice  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:56:42pm
145 EPR-radar  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:57:26pm

re: #140 GeneJockey

They’re still trying to tune it up to get 218 Republican votes, which really takes the Hastert Rule to ridiculous extremes. IIRC, the Hastert rule is that any bill brought to a vote should have majority support of the GOP, not that any bill brought to a vote must have the support of a majority composed entirely of the GOP.

That also confused me the other day. Apparently, there is the old Hastert rule (majority of the majority) and the Teabagger Hastert rule (pass with only R votes).

If I were in Obama’s shoes, the temptation to arrest the entire House GOP delegation for sedition would be overwhelming.

146 Dr Lizardo  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:58:23pm

re: #145 EPR-radar

That also confused me the other day. Apparently, there is the old Hastert rule (majority of the majority) and the Teabagger Hastert rule (pass with only R votes).

If I were in Obama’s shoes, the temptation to arrest the entire House GOP delegation for sedition would be overwhelming.

Same here; and I admit, I would do it. I’d be on the phone to Eric Holder right now.

147 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 12:58:28pm

WTFITS

148 Targetpractice  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 1:02:54pm

Whole mess is getting crazier by the hour. If Boehner thinks that running away from the House will save his ass, he’s in for a very rude awakening. And if he thinks that the Senate GOP won’t agree to Senate DNC terms just to spite the House after pulling such a stunt, he’s in for an even bigger shock.

149 Aqua Obama  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 1:13:41pm

re: #119 Targetpractice

[Embedded content]


For those wondering what “Force Senate to consider” means, that’s code for “vote and then get the fuck out of Dodge.”

The week before Christmas, WTF.

150 leftynyc  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 1:50:13pm

re: #103 Eclectic Cyborg

I suspect many of these staffers have political ambitions of their own. Inside contacts are useful.

Wouldn’t showing the courage of their convictions mean more to future constituents than standing by and letting this madness continue?

151 Romantic Heretic  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 1:51:33pm

re: #37 Interesting Times

Too bad she couldn’t have moved to Canada to be with you instead of the other way around :-/ (if there’s even the slightest chance you could pull it off, however, I seriously suggest it - America is in even worse trouble than I could have ever imagined…)

Tomorrow I call Immigration Canada and see if I can get my wife up here as a refugee.

152 Romantic Heretic  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 2:14:14pm

re: #98 Ian G.

That’s what I was thinking about: the Chile example of the 1970s. I don’t think there’s a right-wing military dictator who will take over, however, as the extreme right in this country is just too weak to take over in a coup d’etat (and they don’t have a patron like Nixon/Kissinger). I don’t know what will happen, but I think our current form of government is finished. Perhaps we’ll eventually get a parliamentary system to replace it.

If the American system fails the U.S. will follow Yugoslavia.

The South will get its ‘freedom’ and happily become a Third World country. Texas will not be part of it.

The North East will remain an industrial and financial power although its relative position will be less than Europe, Japan, China and California.

The Bible Belt will become like Afghanistan. Rather small tribal areas that will technically be ruled from a larger city but in actuality ruled by tribal leaders and religious personages.

The South West will probably become separate nations dependent on resources for income. It’s possible it might be a single nation. Las Vegas will be a big part of the economy whoever ends up owning it.

California will become a major nation about relative in power to Germany and Japan. Washington and Oregon might be part of it but my understanding is their cultures are different enough that I think it unlikely.

Alaska and Hawaii will be new nations as well.

My biggest worry? Who will control the former U.S. nuclear arsenal. Also what will happen to the Armed Forces stationed abroad. In some cases they might be taken over by local nations. South Korea can’t survive without U.S. soldiers for example. Japan and Europe probably would as well. In the Middle East? Xenophon has lots to say about that. It’s possible that other places might end up performing banditry to stay alive. It’s happened before in history. Diego Garcia would make a great base for piracy, and it’s loaded to the gunwales with ammo and equipment.

153 Good Morning  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 4:28:10pm

Shutdown will cause federal funding for Section 8 to dry up Nov. 1, Massachusetts housing official says

masslive.com

If you don’t get the section 8 reference.
en.wikipedia.org

154 Danack  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 4:37:55pm

re: #59 makeitstop

Hm. Not sure of the veracity of this - I got it from a wingnut friend’s FB feed. Via ‘Daily Currant’ (whatever that is)…

As others have said, the Daily Currant is satire, however that does not mean that it’s not true”

“The President and Harry Reid should not have shut this government down,” said Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-Texas) during an afternoon question and answer session with Congressmen. “This has been coming for a long time … Democrats were waiting on a shutdown they could blame on Republicans.”

155 Danack  Tue, Oct 15, 2013 4:39:02pm

A revelation, which makes an asteroid strike of extinction level event appear not such a terrible thing! OR fuck yeah Feudalism!

“The whole middle-class-up economy format is completely ridiculous. Because who’s going to give the middle class their money? The upper class. The middle class isn’t going to make money coming out of nowhere. They’ve got to get a job. And who gives the jobs? The rich people. So if you take all the rich people’s money, they’re not going to be able to give anybody a job. Just it’s so backwards. He [Obama] keeps talking about a strong middle class. I don’t want a strong middle class. I want to make all the middle class rich people, because then you’ve got even more rich people who can give more jobs. It’s like a - it’s just ridiculous.”


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