Will House Republicans Continue Using the Debt Ceiling as an Extortion Tool?

I’m thinking probably, yes
Politics • Views: 19,434

Greg Sargent makes an interesting argument that this last minute cave-in by the House Tea Party cavemen may actually make it possible for John Boehner to marginalize the crazies enough that they won’t be able to use the debt ceiling as an extortion tool any more: Did Barack Obama Do John Boehner a Big Favor?

It’s worth asking whether, by holding the line until Republicans had no choice but to capitulate on the debt limit, Barack Obama actually did John Boehner a long term favor of sorts.

Most observers think John Boehner genuinely wants to get to some kind of long term budget deal. If true, he plainly has been hampered by pressure from the right not to even enter into negotiations that risk resulting in a compromise Tea Partyers would find unacceptable. Before yesterday’s outcome, conservatives explicitly were insisting that GOP leaders must not enter into any talks unless they could wield the threat of harm to the country to get something for nothing. Remember, Ted Cruz angered fellow Republicans when he refused to enter into normal budget talks unless Dems agreed in advance not to make raising the debt ceiling even tangentially related to the talks, effectively reserving it as an extortion tool later.

Cruz, of course, went on to demand that the GOP use extortion tactics to force Dems to agree to unwind Obamacare. GOP leaders tried that with a government shutdown, and then with the debt ceiling, and the rest is history.

Now that Dems have confirmed they will not give up anything to Republicans under such conditions, it’s conceivable this could end up giving Boehner a way to stave off the inevitable demands that he drag the country through the same again. He can rightly point to precedent. That won’t make conservatives any happier. But it could help mobilize GOP elites and moderates who balked at the party’s embrace of extortion tactics — and will probably be even more wary of them during the 2014 elections - to give even less ground to them next time.

My more cynical take: if GOP moderates were really going to pull the Republican Party back from the brink of total weirdness, they would have done it a long time ago. All this insanity didn’t just start last month, after all.

I’m not convinced there’s enough rationality left in the right wing hive mind to guarantee there won’t be any more episodes like this (no matter how self-destructive), or that John Boehner won’t continue to pander to the Tea Creatures, but I’ll be pleasantly surprised if either turns out to be the case.

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262 comments
1 kirkspencer  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 2:49:47pm

Well, they’re not going to pull back. But they’re not going to get to use it next time, either. And the time after that is, I’m guessing, during election season.

Frankly I’d love to see them free to try this next September/October.

2 Charles Johnson  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 2:50:35pm

re: #1 kirkspencer

Well, they’re not going to pull back. But they’re not going to get to use it next time, either. And the time after that is, I’m guessing, during election season.

Frankly I’d love to see them free to try this next September/October.

I wouldn’t be surprised!

3 jaunte  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 2:54:20pm

Onward, over the cliff.

4 dog philosopher  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 2:56:42pm

i thought the baggers might have been willing to take us over the brink, but instead the tea party ended up doing a lot to move forward its historical mission of fatally dividing the republican party

my thanks, morons

5 SnowdenBaggerVance  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 2:57:24pm
My more cynical take is that if GOP moderates were really going to pull the Republican Party back from the brink of total weirdness, they would have done it a long time ago.

Bingo.

Being a moderate GOP must be really weird.

6 piratedan  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 2:57:40pm

re: #3 jaunte

more apt may be this classic, at least as far as the title goes

Youtube Video

7 Lidane  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 3:00:10pm

Kay Bailey Hutchison blasts GOP ‘outliers’ who ‘hijacked’ debt, deficit debate

On Wednesday former Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison never mentioned her successor - Ted Cruz - by name, but she blasted his attempts to derail the U.S. government by attempting to repeal the Affordable Care Act.

“I think that most Republicans wanted to negotiate on the issue of spending and the debt and the deficit,” she said during a brief interview at the Omni Hotel in Dallas, where we ran into the former senator having lunch. “I think a few people threw in an issue that you could not win. It was absolutely clear you could not win it. And as I’ve said, I was voting on Christmas Eve two years ago against that bill. I did everything I could, and so did all the Republicans in Congress — every single one.”

She went on to call the fight against Obamacare “a mistaken strategy,” and blamed Republican leadership for not getting the party back on track.

8 Lidane  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 3:01:59pm

re: #5 SnowdenBaggerVance

Being a moderate GOP must be really weird.

Being a moderate Republican requires two things: wearing a set of blinders so you don’t see what the GOP really is now, and a willingness to overlook and/or excuse everything that upsets that perception as “fringe”.

9 dog philosopher  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 3:02:27pm

i haz often ask myself - is our gohmerts learning?

10 AntonSirius  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 3:03:10pm

re: #1 kirkspencer

Frankly I’d love to see them free to try this next September/October.

The next round of crazy would happen in late January/February… just as primary season is gearing up and the Tea Partiers in Congress (and the ones who want to be in Congress) need to get those fund-raising dollars flowing in. The hook has already been baited.

They’ll try something early next year, whether it’s a shutdown/debt ceiling showdown or another equally, spectacularly stupid strategy. Bank on it.

11 Lidane  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 3:07:09pm

re: #10 AntonSirius

The next round of crazy would happen in late January/February… just as primary season is gearing up and the Tea Partiers in Congress (and the ones who want to be in Congress) need to get those fund-raising dollars flowing in. The hook has already been baited.

They’ll try something early next year, whether it’s a shutdown/debt ceiling showdown or another equally, spectacularly stupid strategy. Bank on it.

Yep. Which is why we’re seeing the GOP leadership shooting down any talk of another shutdown. The last thing they want is another round of extended GOP fail going into the election, or anything that would give the Dems even more ammo to call them all intransigent radicals that can’t govern.

The Tea Party true believers like Cruz don’t care. Shutting down the government is a winner for them. The rest of the party? Not so much.

12 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 3:07:12pm

re: #3 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Onward, over the cliff.

bwahahaaaaaa!!!!

13 Targetpractice  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 3:09:13pm

re: #3 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Onward, over the cliff.

Like lemmings to the sea.

14 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 3:11:40pm

re: #3 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Onward, over the cliff.

Someone needs to start a rumor that the DNC is going to use Marching Through Georgia for the theme song for all 2014 elections … O_o I’d pay good money if someone could get EE to fall for it.

15 dog philosopher  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 3:11:49pm

re: #13 Targetpractice

Like lemmings to the sea.

onward christian lemmings, marching off the cliff?

16 Charles Johnson  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 3:14:19pm
17 AntonSirius  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 3:14:30pm

re: #11 Lidane

Yep. Which is why we’re seeing the GOP leadership shooting down any talk of another shutdown. The last thing they want is another round of extended GOP fail going into the election, or anything that would give the Dems even more ammo to call them all intransigent radicals that can’t govern.

The Tea Party true believers like Cruz don’t care. Shutting down the government is a winner for them. The rest of the party? Not so much.

You forgot the quotes around “leadership”.

18 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 3:15:05pm

The idiot from Alaska posted some sort of WINNING nonsense after Lonegan’s loss last night. Here’s the end bit:

Friends, do not be discouraged by the shenanigans of D.C.’s permanent political class today. Be energized. We’re going to shake things up in 2014. Rest well tonight, for soon we must focus on important House and Senate races. Let’s start with Kentucky - which happens to be awfully close to South Carolina, Tennessee, and Mississippi - from sea to shining sea we will not give up. We’ve only just begun to fight.

More proof that’s she’s geographically challenged, but hell yeah! Bring it on Snowflake! Bring that Palin kiss of death to Kentucky!

And…

Alison Lundergan-Grimes takes 2-point lead over McConnell

19 Dr Lizardo  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 3:15:06pm

OT, but I was reading here in the local Czech media that a mining company here in Ostrava - called Paskov - is in deep doodoo and most likely will have to be shut down. That’s 2,500 jobs gone.

However, the Ministry of Labor did a little extrapolation.

Paskov feeds two steel mills here; ArcellorMitallu and OKD. If Paskov is closed, those two mills will no longer be able to source their raw materials locally and will have to rely on imports.

ArcellorMitallu is in deep doodoo itself, and OKD is marginal at best. If ArcellorMitallu folds - a realistic prospect - kiss another 5,000 jobs goodbye.

But then there’s the multiplier effect; when taken into account, in a worst-case scenario (both ArcellorMitallu and OKD folding) the city of Ostrava and the surrounding area would be looking at some 71,500 unemployed. Next worst-case scenario (ArcellorMitallu folding) and you’d be looking at 35,000 unemployed.

The city already has a high unemployment rate. Throw this epic economic disaster into the mix, and hopefully the last person to leave Ostrava will be so kind as to turn out the lights.

20 dog philosopher  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 3:17:49pm

re: #18 Backwoods_Sleuth

The idiot from Alaska posted some sort of WINNING nonsense after Lonegan’s loss last night. Here’s the end bit:

More proof that’s she’s geographically challenged, but hell yeah! Bring it on Snowflake! Bring that Palin kiss of death to Kentucky!

And…

Alison Lundergan-Grimes takes 2-point lead over McConnell

durn polls iz all skeewed yanno

21 ramex  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 3:18:39pm

30% of polled Americans still approve of the Tea Party, and what that percentage of approval might look like where Republicans hold super-majorities I don’t even want to think about. They won’t be done playing these destructive games for quite some time.

22 HappyWarrior  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 3:19:01pm

re: #18 Backwoods_Sleuth

The idiot from Alaska posted some sort of WINNING nonsense after Lonegan’s loss last night. Here’s the end bit:

More proof that’s she’s geographically challenged, but hell yeah! Bring it on Snowflake! Bring that Palin kiss of death to Kentucky!

And…

Alison Lundergan-Grimes takes 2-point lead over McConnell

Please Sarah come to Virginia. Ken needs you!

23 dog philosopher  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 3:19:13pm

re: #19 Dr Lizardo

OT, but I was reading here in the local Czech media that a mining company here in Ostrava - called Paskov - is in deep doodoo

i thought the czech spelling was “dzudzu”

24 Balfour Rage  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 3:21:30pm
25 Dr Lizardo  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 3:22:03pm

re: #23 dog philosopher

i thought the czech spelling was “dzudzu”

lol

Actually, it’s “hovno” .

:p

26 GeneJockey  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 3:24:00pm

re: #25 Dr Lizardo

lol

Actually, it’s “hovno” .

:p

Yes, we hovno bananas! We hovno bananas today!!!

27 HappyWarrior  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 3:25:28pm

re: #24 Balfour Rage

[Embedded content]

Love how he wants to act like the GOP controls the house because WILL OF THE PEOPLE but ignores that the will of the people with much more people voting gave Barack Obama a second term, kept the Senate in Democratic hands (rejecting candidates that Bryan loves), and lessened the number of TP fanatics in the House but don’t tell Bryan that. The 2010 election means everything and all the TP fanatics elected that year should be able to destroy the government as they please. What a fucking load of shit. Fischer makes Pat Robertson come off as reasonable. That’s how stupid he is. So good job Bryan, you’re stupider than Pat Robertson. You should be so proud.

28 Dr Lizardo  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 3:26:31pm

re: #26 GeneJockey

Yes, we hovno bananas! We hovno bananas today!!!

LOL

29 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 3:26:50pm

re: #3 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Onward, over the cliff.

Same composer, more directly to the point:

Come Boys, Lets All Be Gay, Boys

30 Justanotherhuman  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 3:29:17pm

I don’t think the crazy has completely left the ‘baggers, but I also think they don’t have the heft they think they do anymore.

By continually giving in to the loons’ demands, and not maintaining discipline within his own caucus, Boehner (and by default, the moderates in the RP) have ensured that any election wins in the near future will be of a local, or regional, nature. And many of the voters who support them are dying off, and some younger ones, esp women, are coming to their senses.

I think most people have seen what an R win nationally would mean in the near future—and it’s neither pleasing nor desirable. In fact, it’s repellent.

That doesn’t let Dems off the hook, though. This is still a fight for those who think it’s still “business as usual” in DC and elsewhere. Politics is never static—there will always be changes even liberals and “progressives” don’t like, that’s the nature of compromise, of advise and consent, but in order to keep our ideals, we also have to be pragmatic, and that’s something Pres Obama has tried to accomplish. We will need to find someone else of his caliber to continue forward.

31 Dr Lizardo  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 3:29:39pm

re: #26 GeneJockey

Yes, we hovno bananas! We hovno bananas today!!!

Interestingly, at a bare minimum, the closure of the Paskov mine, which will likely happen by the end of this year, would lead to an additional 5,500 job losses across various sectors owing to the multiplier effect.

32 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 3:33:27pm

re: #27 HappyWarrior

Love how he wants to act like the GOP controls the house because WILL OF THE PEOPLE but ignores that the will of the people with much more people voting gave Barack Obama a second term, kept the Senate in Democratic hands (rejecting candidates that Bryan loves), and lessened the number of TP fanatics in the House but don’t tell Bryan that. The 2010 election means everything and all the TP fanatics elected that year should be able to destroy the government as they please. What a fucking load of shit. Fischer makes Pat Robertson come off as reasonable. That’s how stupid he is. So good job Bryan, you’re stupider than Pat Robertson. You should be so proud.

also, “Republican” does not necessarily = “eejit teabaggers”, although the non-TP GOP people need to get a grip already…

33 Justanotherhuman  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 3:35:23pm

re: #18 Backwoods_Sleuth

The idiot from Alaska posted some sort of WINNING nonsense after Lonegan’s loss last night. Here’s the end bit:

More proof that’s she’s geographically challenged, but hell yeah! Bring it on Snowflake! Bring that Palin kiss of death to Kentucky!

And…

Alison Lundergan-Grimes takes 2-point lead over McConnell

Please, please, please, give McConnell the Palin kiss of death, Sister Sarah. : }

34 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 3:35:49pm

re: #26 GeneJockey

Yes, we hovno bananas! We hovno bananas today!!!

Harry Chapin’s “30,000 Pounds of Bananas”:

Youtube Video

35 AntonSirius  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 3:37:02pm

re: #24 Balfour Rage

[Embedded content]

36 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 3:39:13pm

oh, I see francis is back…another “letter” coming soon I suppose…

37 Decatur Deb  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 3:39:28pm

Will House Republicans Continue Using the Debt Ceiling as an Extortion Tool?


If there’s an all-loving god, they will.

38 klys  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 3:40:27pm

re: #36 Backwoods_Sleuth

oh, I see francis is back…another “letter” coming soon I suppose…

I think it’s possible that francis’s ability to post mysteriously broke.

39 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 3:41:12pm

re: #38 klys

I think it’s possible that francis’s ability to post mysteriously broke.

hahhaaahahhahahaaa!

40 Decatur Deb  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 3:42:28pm

re: #38 klys

I think it’s possible that francis’s ability to post mysteriously broke.

Just found out that 1st class postage is 46 freakn’ cents.

41 klys  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 3:43:49pm

re: #39 Backwoods_Sleuth

hahhaaahahhahahaaa!

I mean, I can’t say for sure. But WW pointed out a comment that he’d posted on someone else’s page asking Charles if there was a problem because his Create A Page button was missing.

And I, for one, rejoiced.

42 Spocomptonite  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 3:43:59pm

re: #18 Backwoods_Sleuth

The idiot from Alaska posted some sort of WINNING nonsense after Lonegan’s loss last night. Here’s the end bit:

More proof that’s she’s geographically challenged, but hell yeah! Bring it on Snowflake! Bring that Palin kiss of death to Kentucky!

And…

Alison Lundergan-Grimes takes 2-point lead over McConnell

So, the two shining seas are the Atlantic and The Gulf of Mexico?

43 prairiefire  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 3:44:06pm

re: #40 Decatur Deb

Just found out that 1st class postage is 46 freakn’ cents.

The usps wants to raise it to .49 cents.

44 klys  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 3:44:11pm

re: #40 Decatur Deb

Just found out that 1st class postage is 46 freakn’ cents.

This is why forever stamps are amazing.

45 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 3:45:01pm

re: #38 klys

I think it’s possible that francis’s ability to post mysteriously broke.

I think Charles may have given him a stealth ban, so that only he can see his pages on the front page. FARK used to do that years ago, before Drew sold his soul for page views and realized that trolls generated controversy and caused suckers to feel the need to counter their trolling.

46 Decatur Deb  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 3:45:47pm

re: #44 klys

This is why forever stamps are amazing.

Forever? Must be the kind Kevin Costner carries.

47 klys  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 3:46:19pm

re: #45 goddamnedfrank

I think Charles may have given him a stealth ban, so that only he can see his pages on the front page. FARK used to do that years ago, before Drew sold his soul for page views and realized that trolls generated controversy and caused suckers to feel the need to counter their trolling.

He dabbled in the main comment thread for a day or two after he could no longer create Pages, but never for very long.

48 Hercules Grytpype-Thynneghazi  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 3:46:50pm

re: #23 dog philosopher

i thought the czech spelling was “dzudzu”

Too many vowels.

49 Justanotherhuman  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 3:48:05pm

Everyone who believes this can exit the planet right now.

Snowden Says He Took No Secret Files to Russia

nytimes.com

“Mr. Snowden said he gave all of the classified documents he had obtained to journalists he met in Hong Kong, before flying to Moscow, and did not keep any copies for himself. He did not take the files to Russia “because it wouldn’t serve the public interest,” he said.

“What would be the unique value of personally carrying another copy of the materials onward?” he added.

“He also asserted that he was able to protect the documents from China’s spies because he was familiar with that nation’s intelligence abilities, saying that as an N.S.A. contractor he had targeted Chinese operations and had taught a course on Chinese cybercounterintelligence. “

Wow, I can smell the stink of this from this all the way in NC.

50 Decatur Deb  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 3:48:32pm

re: #48 Hercules Grytpype-Thynneghazi

Too many vowels.

And it’s German. “Dzudzu leibst mir im Herzen.”

51 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 3:49:32pm

re: #43 prairiefire

The usps wants to raise it to .49 cents.

People don’t realize how good we have it. Sending a letter inside New Zealand costs NZD $1.40 = US $1.19.

52 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 3:50:22pm

re: #41 klys

I mean, I can’t say for sure. But WW pointed out a comment that he’d posted on someone else’s page asking Charles if there was a problem because his Create A Page button was missing.

And I, for one, rejoiced.

I remember when he posted that comment.
Sweet wingnut tears, they were.

53 GeneJockey  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 3:50:53pm

re: #43 prairiefire

The usps wants to raise it to .49 cents.

When I was a boy, you could mail a letter for 5 cents! And now it’s almost 50 cents? Ridiculous! Overpaid union workers!!!

Why, back then you could buy a new car for $1600, and it’s only gone up to about $16,000, which is only a factor of 10, whereas the price of a first class stamp has gone up by a factor of…hold on…

*clicking calculator buttons*

TEN!

Huh. Nevermind.
////

54 klys  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 3:51:11pm

Because I need a moment of zen, between feedback on proofs and banging my head into programming shit, have a photo of a traditional Japanese storefront.

55 Decatur Deb  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 3:51:16pm

re: #51 goddamnedfrank

People don’t realize how good we have it. Sending a letter inside New Zealand costs NZD $1.40 = US $1.19.

Yeah, but it’s delivered on a really cool bike.

imdb.com

56 GeneJockey  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 3:52:07pm

re: #47 klys

He dabbled in the main comment thread for a day or two after he could no longer create Pages, but never for very long.

If you can’t take the heat, Francis….

57 wrenchwench  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 3:52:09pm

re: #41 klys

I mean, I can’t say for sure. But WW pointed out a comment that he’d posted on someone else’s page asking Charles if there was a problem because his Create A Page button was missing.

And I, for one, rejoiced.

Here it is.

I suspect operator error.

58 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 3:52:11pm

re: #44 klys

This is why forever stamps are amazing.

I bought about $100 worth of forever stamps about three or four years ago.
I can’t die until I use them all…or clean my house.

oh! I must be like the Highlander!

59 klys  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 3:52:13pm

re: #53 GeneJockey

I think we spent a little more than $16,000 on our last new car. I mean, granted, there are a few new cars out there for that price, but definitely not the majority.

60 klys  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 3:52:59pm

re: #57 wrenchwench

Here it is.

I suspect operator error.

NOOOOOOO, I’m personally rooting for the stealth ban because I never want to read one of his rambling missives again.

61 Decatur Deb  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 3:54:21pm

re: #59 klys

I think we spent a little more than $16,000 on our last new car. I mean, granted, there are a few new cars out there for that price, but definitely not the majority.

Saved GI money to buy my first car, a new 1966 Austin Healy Sprite—$2200. Got married instead.

62 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 3:54:32pm

re: #57 wrenchwench

Here it is.

I suspect operator error.

yep…that’s the one. Started that morning off with a smile on my face.

63 wrenchwench  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 3:54:32pm

re: #60 klys

NOOOOOOO, I’m personally rooting for the stealth ban because I never want to read one of his rambling missives again.

You know you don’t have to read every Page that gets posted….

just mine…

64 Decatur Deb  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 3:55:15pm

re: #63 wrenchwench

You know you don’t have to read every Page that gets posted….

just mine…

SFZ had that mission—don’t know who is assigned now.

65 klys  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 3:55:31pm

re: #61 Decatur Deb

Saved GI money to buy my first car, a new 1966 Austin Healy Sprite—$2200. Got married instead.

I suspect she’s held her value better.

/ducks

66 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 3:55:44pm

re: #60 klys

NOOOOOOO, I’m personally rooting for the stealth ban because I never want to read one of his rambling missives again.

I stopped reading them. Just downdinged and then back to our regularly schedule programming.

67 klys  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 3:55:54pm

re: #63 wrenchwench

You know you don’t have to read every Page that gets posted….

just mine…

I know, but it’s like that train wreck you just can’t help yourself…

68 blueraven  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 3:56:45pm

Well the shutdown is over, debt ceiling raised, so now Fox News is back to the most important story scandal of the day…BENGHAZI!!

69 Decatur Deb  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 3:56:59pm

re: #65 klys

I suspect she’s held her value better.

/ducks

It’s a lot cheaper to maintain a ‘66 Healey.

70 The Ghost of a Flea  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 3:58:26pm

re: #60 klys

NOOOOOOO, I’m personally rooting for the stealth ban because I never want to read one of his rambling missives again.

I, for one, look forward to his next missive about how the Old Ones are the uncaring creeping doom of us all, and that it’s really just bad form to attempt to resist interbreeding with the fish people that live underwater along the New England coast.

71 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 4:00:18pm

re: #61 Decatur Deb

Saved GI money to buy my first car, a new 1966 Austin Healy Sprite—$2200. Got married instead.

I had a special savings account I started back in the 1970s to use for a facelift in my older years.
A couple decades later I decided to use that money to do some international traveling.
Mirror tells me a facelift would be nice now, but I think the money was better spent.

72 AlexRogan  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 4:00:35pm

re: #65 klys

I suspect she’s held her value better.

/ducks

At least with her, DD didn’t have to deal with Lucas, the prince of darkness.

He saved that for later when he got his Land Rover.

///

73 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 4:01:26pm

re: #70 The Ghost of a Flea

I, for one, look forward to his next missive about how the Old Ones are the uncaring creeping doom of us all, and that it’s really just bad form to attempt to resist interbreeding with the fish people that live underwater along the New England coast.

I certainly hope you are NOT including our dear Dopefish in that description!
/

74 prairiefire  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 4:01:55pm

re: #51 goddamnedfrank

People don’t realize how good we have it. Sending a letter inside New Zealand costs NZD $1.40 = US $1.19.

I love my African American mail ladies. A few more democrats to talk to in my neck of the woods.
USPS does a great job!

75 GeneJockey  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 4:02:07pm

re: #59 klys

Hey, I said you could buy A new car, not ANY new car! $1600 in 1960 didn’t buy much car either. Basically, a VW Beetle.

76 The Ghost of a Flea  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 4:02:21pm

re: #73 Backwoods_Sleuth

I certainly hope you are NOT including our dear Dopefish in that description!
/

I dunno. Is he from Innsmouth?

77 Decatur Deb  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 4:02:46pm

re: #71 Backwoods_Sleuth

I had a special savings account I started back in the 1970s to use for a facelift in my older years.
A couple decades later I decided to use that money to do some international traveling.
Mirror tells me a facelift would be nice now, but I think the money was better spent.

Absolutely.

78 klys  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 4:03:06pm

re: #75 GeneJockey

Hey, I said you could buy A new car, not ANY new car! $1600 in 1960 didn’t buy much car either. Basically, a VW Beetle.

We have the money set aside for my car, but as long as my RAV4 holds out I’m keeping it. I don’t think I’m going to have much luck finding something that handles as nicely as it does.

79 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 4:04:51pm

re: #76 The Ghost of a Flea

I dunno. Is he from Innsmouth?

I don’t know, but I also don’t know where the Dopefish spawn are spawned either.
FISHIE SEKRITS!

80 Zamb  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 4:06:21pm

re: #68 blueraven

I’ve got to say the best thing about this whole shutdown failure of the republicans is that the old bastards who always turned on Fox in the break room can’t seem to stand being reminded that any of this has happened. Now they just watch sportscenter.

81 darthstar  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 4:07:44pm


Carlson corrected:

“Alright, I’m really sorry to report that earlier we did report that Congressman Bill Young had passed away,” Carlson said. “We are now told that is not the case and we of course sincerely apologize for that error. Hopefully that won’t happen again.”

In other words, if that guy doesn’t die next time I’m going to look like a bigger idiot.

82 HappyWarrior  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 4:08:28pm

huffingtonpost.com
So this happened, in a funny coincidence, this is the same Congressman featured in an Onion article as intently listening to a man dressed as Thomas Jefferson. Honestly, I think it’s more funny/disturbing that a Congressman actually believed the debt deal would fund Joseph Kony than this. We really elected some grade-A idiots to Congress a few years ago and this Mulvaney guy just entered the Gohmert-Stockman-Bachmann category of stupid.

83 GeneJockey  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 4:09:14pm

re: #69 Decatur Deb

It’s a lot cheaper to maintain a ‘66 Healey.

If the Healey’s like most British sports cars, you spend more time under it than in it.
//////////////////

84 GeneJockey  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 4:12:54pm

re: #81 darthstar

[Embedded content]


Carlson corrected:

In other words, if that guy doesn’t die next time I’m going to look like a bigger idiot kill him myself.

more likely

85 Decatur Deb  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 4:13:10pm

re: #83 GeneJockey

If the Healey’s like most British sports cars, you spend more time under it than in it.
//////////////////

Wound up with its twin, a 20 year old MG Midget. If I worked on it all weekend, I could drive it all week. The old Land Rover is spooky. It stopped decaying about 5 years ago, now I get “We Want You Back” letters from eBay.

86 Varek Raith  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 4:16:23pm

re: #81 darthstar

[Embedded content]


Carlson corrected:

In other words, if that guy doesn’t die next time I’m going to look like a bigger idiot.

What’s more likely;
She was wrong
or
The zombie apocalypse has begun?

I think it’s obvious.

87 ObserverArt  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 4:18:55pm

Anyone seen or heard anything from that great Republican mastermind Reince Priebus yesterday or today?

He’s usually flappin’ his jaws about something. Hmmm. Now that I think about it, he kinda tucked tail Mid-November last year, and the next time he was back out yakking he was talking about all those changes to be more welcoming and inclusive.

88 Justanotherhuman  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 4:20:08pm

re: #83 GeneJockey

If the Healey’s like most British sports cars, you spend more time under it than in it.
//////////////////

But it’s so classic…

Image: 15606510-170-0@2x.jpg

I would love to have this one. 1966…$28,500

(Hint: Not a Healey, though)

89 darthstar  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 4:20:58pm

//

90 ObserverArt  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 4:23:03pm

re: #83 GeneJockey

If the Healey’s like most British sports cars, you spend more time under it than in it.
//////////////////

Problem solved. Redo all the car and put a Mazda Miata engine in it.

91 dog philosopher  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 4:24:19pm

re: #54 klys

banging my head into programming shit

that is certainly the time honored software engineering methodology that i always use

92 Decatur Deb  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 4:24:27pm

re: #88 Justanotherhuman

But it’s so classic…

Image: 15606510-170-0@2x.jpg

I would love to have this one. 1966…$28,500

(Hint: Not a Healey, though)

Morgan?

93 Decatur Deb  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 4:26:10pm

re: #90 ObserverArt

Problem solved. Redo all the car and put a Mazda Miata engine in it.

And then what do you do with the carb balancer and the Laycock de Normanville?

94 dog philosopher  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 4:26:37pm

re: #90 ObserverArt

Problem solved. Redo all the car and put a Mazda Miata engine in it.

why won’t somebody build and sell the car i really want:

something that looks like an auburn boattail but runs like a brand new honda?

95 ObserverArt  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 4:29:38pm

re: #93 Decatur Deb

And then what do you do with the carb balancer and the Laycock de Normanville?

A paper weight for your desk and a boat anchor.

/

96 Justanotherhuman  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 4:29:41pm

re: #92 Decatur Deb

Morgan?

Yes. Motor needs to be rebuilt or replaced—that’s why it’s cheap.

97 darthstar  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 4:30:57pm

Image: 5b3dcy.jpg

98 GeneJockey  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 4:32:41pm

re: #85 Decatur Deb

Wound up with its twin, a 20 year old MG Midget. If I worked on it all weekend, I could drive it all week. The old Land Rover is spooky. It stopped decaying about 5 years ago, now I get “We Want You Back” letters from eBay.

I got a 1966 MGB in 1979. Floorboards gone, replaces with aluminum sheets. Rocker panels rusted away, so they got reinforced with channel iron. Speedometer and tach didn’t work. Positive earth. ‘Tinker Toy’ top, which took roughly 3 minutes to put up.

First the clutch went out. Replaced it.

Then it started burning oil like mad, then one cylinder started sporadically failing, then no longer sporadically, but rather constantly. Then another started failing. Finally had the engine rebuilt, but they didn’t magnaflux the head, so two years later it started doing that again.

Then it dropped its drive shaft, climbing Negley Avenue in Pittsburgh, while I was visiting my not-for-another-8-years-wife.

Then the heater core blew out, in the early fall, while I was living in Ithaca, NY. Winter was…interesting.

Then, after I moved out out to CA (with my employer paying to move me, including car), the brakes started failing, so that you had to plan ahead for panic stops.

Funny thing is, in Ithaca the mechanics would say, “Wow, this is in really great shape for a ‘66!” Once I got to California? “What a rusty piece of shit!” One place wouldn’t work on it because the mechanic was afraid he’d need a tetanus shot.

99 GeneJockey  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 4:34:23pm

BTW, all of that took place in only 3 years.

100 ObserverArt  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 4:35:45pm

I’m sure all you Brit car fanatics have heard this one.

Why do the British drink warm beer?

Because Lucas makes the refrigeration.

BaDaBump…tssssss!

Heh. Moldie Oldie.

101 Decatur Deb  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 4:37:04pm

re: #98 GeneJockey

I got a 1966 MGB in 1979. Floorboards gone, replaces with aluminum sheets. Rocker panels rusted away, so they got reinforced with channel iron. Speedometer and tach didn’t work. Positive earth. ‘Tinker Toy’ top, which took roughly 3 minutes to put up.

First the clutch went out. Replaced it.

Then it started burning oil like mad, then one cylinder started sporadically failing, then no longer sporadically, but rather constantly. Then another started failing. Finally had the engine rebuilt, but they didn’t magnaflux the head, so two years later it started doing that again.

Then it dropped its drive shaft, climbing Negley Avenue in Pittsburgh, while I was visiting my not-for-another-8-years-wife.

Then the heater core blew out, in the early fall, while I was living in Ithaca, NY. Winter was…interesting.

Then, after I moved out out to CA (with my employer paying to move me, including car), the brakes started failing, so that you had to plan ahead for panic stops.

Funny thing is, in Ithaca the mechanics would say, “Wow, this is in really great shape for a ‘66!” Once I got to California? “What a rusty piece of shit!” One place wouldn’t work on it because the mechanic was afraid he’d need a tetanus shot.

Wow. You got the good one.

Took several months to get a Midget starter, so I became an expert at local micro-topography. If I had to stop at the bottom of a hill, I could push it half-way up and push back down if I didn’t have a passenger. Teen-aged daughters hated to ride with me.

102 GeneJockey  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 4:37:24pm

re: #96 Justanotherhuman

Yes. Motor needs to be rebuilt or replaced—that’s why it’s cheap.

There was a story in Road & Track, one of the columnists went to look at a Morgan that was for sale for $4500. He restores cars as a hobby, so he was looking for a ‘fixer upper’. As he looked through it, he’d find something that needed replacing, and the owner would say, “Yeah, you can get a new one from thus-and-so for $500”

Finally after going through the whole thing, the owner asked what he thought. He responded, “Well, it’s got a nice steering wheel, but everything else needs to be fixed or replaced, and $4500 is a hell of a lot for a steering wheel.”

103 darthstar  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 4:37:32pm

re: #100 ObserverArt

I’m sure all you Brit car fanatics have heard this one.

Why do the British drink warm beer?

Because Lucas makes the refrigeration.

BaDaBump…tssssss!

Heh. Moldie Oldie.

Do you know why they don’t make computers in Britain?

They haven’t figured out how to make a motherboard leak oil.

104 Decatur Deb  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 4:38:32pm

re: #103 darthstar

Do you know why they don’t make computers in Britain?

They haven’t figured out how to make a motherboard leak oil.

Lucas made components for the Space Shuttle fleet. Fur Reel.

105 Charles Johnson  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 4:40:00pm
106 Justanotherhuman  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 4:42:07pm

re: #98 GeneJockey


Funny thing is, in Ithaca the mechanics would say, “Wow, this is in really great shape for a ‘66!” Once I got to California? “What a rusty piece of shit!” One place wouldn’t work on it because the mechanic was afraid he’d need a tetanus shot.

That was hilarious! Reminds me of a 66 Chevy II Nova I had which I actually had to get out of the car, raise the hood and adjust the transmission linkage by hand (it was a 3 on the tree). Would be riding along and it would just hang up. I think I drove it for maybe 6 mos (bought it second hand in the 70s). Hagerty sez about the CII Nova: “The Chevrolet Chevy II Nova was a rush job.” Damn straight. It was a piece of shit.

107 ausador  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 4:43:19pm

The Dems have 20 Senate seats up for grabs in 2014 so I for one am all in favor of the Republicans continuing to make total asses of themselves and turning the Independent electorate against them. If they don’t we stand a very good chance of losing the Senate to them in November of next year.

Remember that this will be a mid-term election where they have a long and reliable history of kicking our asses. With no President on the ballot to vote for a lot of our people will stay at home, whereas the Religious Right block voters will still show up in mass as they always do.

The 2014 mid-term election is going to decide where this country is headed a lot more than the 2016 Presidential election will. If the Democratic Machine does not gear up and spend whatever it takes to keep the Senate then all the arguments of the last few years will be moot. With control of both the House and the Senate the Republicans will be able to finally pass every bit of insane legislation the teapublicans have proposed since 2010.

Sigh…Obama better be keeping his veto pen inked up and well polished, he is sure as hell going to need it if we lose 2014.

108 darthstar  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 4:44:16pm

re: #105 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Needs more zombie.

109 GeneJockey  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 4:45:24pm

re: #101 Decatur Deb

Wow. You got the good one.

Took several months to get a Midget starter, so I became an expert at local micro-topography. If I had to stop at the bottom of a hill, I could push it half-way up and push back down it I didn’t have a passenger. Teen-aged daughters hated to ride with me.

Microtopography indeed. Before the engine rebuild, when I was living in Ithaca, I was spending most nights at my GF’s place on Buffalo Street, where I parked facing downhill. Buffalo Street is pretty steep, running straight up the hill from downtown up to Collegetown, next to Cornell.

I’d go out in the morning and fire up the MG, which often started on TWO cylinders. Not enough to get up the hill! So I’d drive down Buffalo to the flats and drive around till the third cylinder kicked in, then floor it and barely make it up State Street, which was less steep than Buffalo. I did that for a couple months!

Interestingly, my MGB did NOT win the prize for the Worst Car Purchased By One Of The Smith Boys. No, brother Mike’s Simca 1000, AKA ‘The Blue Lemon’ won THAT honor!

110 darthstar  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 4:45:42pm
111 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 4:46:31pm

Latest WSJ article confirms what I’ve been saying for days, and should put the fear into the Republican Party. The flow of money is going to dry up a fair bit.:

In interviews with representatives of companies large and small, executives predicted a change in how business would approach politics. They didn’t foresee a new alignment with Democrats but forecast backing challengers to tea-party conservatives in GOP primaries, increasing political engagement with centrist Republicans and, for some, disengaging with politics altogether.

…

The Chamber of Commerce, which has given tens of millions of dollars to Republican candidates, is researching what challengers might be viable next year. It urged House members to support the final compromise by including Wednesday’s vote in the scorecard it uses when weighing possible endorsement of members of Congress. By contrast, FreedomWorks, which backs tea-party candidates, urged a “no.”

…

Some say the key will be engaging Main Street business leaders to press upon their representatives the need for compromise. Others predict business leaders outside Washington will disengage altogether, disgusted by the results.

Hal Sirkin, a senior partner with the Boston Consulting Group, said his conversations with executives in a range of industries suggest widespread frustration with the Republican party. The budget battle “is giving them pause to reconsider everything that they believed” about conservative support for business, he said. Some executives have told him they plan to pull back their support for the party “as a message to say, this is not acceptable. You can’t trash the business community,” he added.

112 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 4:49:11pm

re: #57 wrenchwench

Here it is.

I suspect operator error.

This happened when LGF was crashing every 11 seconds.

113 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 4:49:37pm

re: #91 dog philosopher

that is certainly the time honored software engineering methodology that i always use

This is why I prefer dealing with hardware.
Hammer is tool of choice…

114 Justanotherhuman  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 4:50:26pm

re: #110 darthstar

[Embedded content]

Damn, Bill, says Woody.

Youtube Video

115 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 4:53:32pm

re: #112 Vicious Babushka

This happened when LGF was crashing every 11 seconds.

Soooo, it WAS francis…

116 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 4:53:49pm

re: #114 Justanotherhuman

Damn, Bill, says Woody.

[Embedded content]

All those young hippies who didn’t trust anyone over 30 are now mostly senior citizens. They could get prescriptions for medical maryjane.

117 Charles Johnson  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 4:54:06pm

re: #57 wrenchwench

Here it is.

I suspect operator error.

Oh, that - yes, that was happening when we had that DOS attack. The Create a Page button is dynamically inserted there, and if the Javascript files failed to load, it wouldn’t appear under some circumstances.

There’s no stealth blocking going on.

118 aagcobb  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 4:54:46pm

re: #111 goddamnedfrank

Latest WSJ article confirms what I’ve been saying for days, and should put the fear into the Republican Party. The flow of money is going to dry up a fair bit.:

Good News. Thanks to the Supreme Court, we will have a battle royal for the soul of the GOP between mainstream business interests and libertarian billionaires. Its ironic; McConnell has spent decades fighting for unlimited campaign contributions just in time to ensure that a wacko billionaire can write unlimited checks to fund a Tea party challenger to Mitch McConnell.

119 AlexRogan  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 4:55:46pm

re: #110 darthstar

[Embedded content]

Looks a bit like Tommy Chong’s “quarter-pounder” joint from Up in Smoke…

120 klys  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 4:56:23pm

re: #117 Charles Johnson

Oh, that - yes, that was happening when we had that DOS attack. The Create a Page button is dynamically inserted there, and if the Javascript files failed to load, it wouldn’t appear under some circumstances.

There’s no stealth blocking going on.

Sadface.

121 Justanotherhuman  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 4:58:14pm

re: #116 Vicious Babushka

We can’t in NC, but I would if I could. And it’s processed for the Feds here in NC, too, up in the Raleigh area. Don’t know what the hell they do with it, though.

122 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 4:59:14pm

hahahaaa

Image: 1380482_10151920802797346_475617294_n.jpg

123 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 5:00:31pm

re: #120 klys

Sadface.

well, good news is that there’s no new letter from francis.
Maybe he’s still lost…

124 wrenchwench  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 5:05:42pm

re: #117 Charles Johnson

There’s no stealth blocking going on.

Yeah, not your style.

More like, ‘With that, I bid you adieu’.

Or, ‘Get off my blog’.

Francis is still in ‘lolwut’ territory.

125 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 5:06:48pm

Moment of geek memories…

Image: 1382901_10151907454092866_409370358_n.jpg

126 Amory Blaine  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 5:10:17pm

re: #74 prairiefire

I love my African American mail ladies. A few more democrats to talk to in my neck of the woods.
USPS does a great job!

My mailman has a radio clipped to his bag. Playing right wing radio.

127 ObserverArt  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 5:10:19pm

re: #125 Backwoods_Sleuth

Moment of geek memories…

Image: 1382901_10151907454092866_409370358_n.jpg

I still have a beloved Otari 1/2” 8 track reel to reel in my studio. We record and then digitize that into the mixing software. Thankfully we can still get 10” reels of recording tape.

128 thedopefishlives  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 5:13:48pm

Evening Lizardim.

129 aagcobb  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 5:13:57pm

re: #126 Amory Blaine

My mailman has a radio clipped to his bag. Playing right wing radio.

My brother is an atheist, union offical, mailman wingnut. The cognitive dissonance that must require makes me dizzy.

130 b_sharp  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 5:15:09pm

re: #126 Amory Blaine

My mailman has a radio clipped to his bag. Playing right wing radio.

Ouch.

131 wrenchwench  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 5:15:43pm
132 Varek Raith  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 5:16:13pm

re: #131 wrenchwench

[Embedded content]

ROFL

133 thedopefishlives  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 5:16:21pm

re: #131 wrenchwench

FAIR AND BALANCED!

134 PhillyPretzel  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 5:18:52pm

re: #131 wrenchwench

I like the new icon. Brie is a good cheese.

135 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 5:19:39pm

re: #131 wrenchwench

[Embedded content]

LOL.

“To have a blood moon and then for those blood moons to be on this exact date is something that is just beyond coincidental,” said Hagee.

Um, no. That’s exactly how coincidence works.

136 wrenchwench  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 5:19:54pm

re: #134 PhillyPretzel

I like the new icon. Brie is a good cheese.

Thanks! I had another one in mind, but it’s too big. I’ll shrink it tomorrow.

137 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 5:20:48pm
138 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 5:21:53pm

re: #90 ObserverArt

Problem solved. Redo all the car and put a Mazda Miata engine in it.

My robber baron car is almost alone among British vehicles in being pretty reliable. It does have some quirks, though. Chief among these is the dreaded SU carburettor. It has two of these. Road and Track editor Tony Hogg once said that these were invented not to power cars, but to keep small boys and geezers amused fiddling with them. There is a wizard here who knows how to adjust them, at least the old boat keeps running after he does so. I actually do some of my own work on the thing, but I refuse to touch the carbs, lest the shade of Francis Drake appear and knock a rod through the block with his drumstick.

139 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 5:21:56pm

Horrible negotiator, that’s why GOP got NOTHING.

140 dog philosopher  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 5:22:08pm

re: #126 Amory Blaine

My mailman has a radio clipped to his bag. Playing right wing radio.

i have some reliably moronic wingnut correspondents who all happen to be public school teachers

naturally they constantly condemn all public employees as moochers who are in the bag for obama

141 wrenchwench  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 5:22:43pm

re: #135 goddamnedfrank

LOL.

Um, no. That’s exactly how coincidence works.

They don’t even say what a blood moon is. Apparently there’s more than one definition. Whatever fits the prophecy, I guess.

142 jaunte  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 5:23:10pm

re: #139 Vicious Babushka

143 Justanotherhuman  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 5:23:40pm

re: #129 aagcobb

Yeah, I remember back in the day when all the AFL-CIO unions leaned left, opposed the war, and, officially, we endorsed McGovern in 1972, and the Teamsters came out for Nixon. The Teamsters organized in a lot of different businesses, competing with the AFL-CIO, and where they represented non-trucking employees, they were a lousy union, pretty much writing sweetheart contracts.

144 aagcobb  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 5:24:27pm

re: #141 wrenchwench

They don’t even say what a blood moon is. Apparently there’s more than one definition. Whatever fits the prophecy, I guess.

There is no better scam with which to fleece the faithful than predicting the imminent end of the world.

145 b_sharp  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 5:24:49pm

re: #136 wrenchwench

Thanks! I had another one in mind, but it’s too big. I’ll shrink it tomorrow.

I find ice water shrinks everything.

146 EPR-radar  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 5:25:31pm

re: #131 wrenchwench

Whatta maroon. Among other things, a total solar eclipse can only be seen from an exceedingly small faction of the Earth’s surface. This makes it a really lousy worldwide sign/portent.

147 Hercules Grytpype-Thynneghazi  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 5:26:58pm

re: #125 Backwoods_Sleuth

Moment of geek memories…

Image: 1382901_10151907454092866_409370358_n.jpg

Can’t forget tape reels as long as there are TV stations playing ‘60’s sci-fi.
Image: time_tunnel_b205_3.jpg

148 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 5:27:41pm

re: #141 wrenchwench

They don’t even say what a blood moon is. Apparently there’s more than one definition. Whatever fits the prophecy, I guess.

Yeah, I noticed that. Traditionally a blood moon occurs every year, in Fall, after the harvest moon. Any other definition is subject to the viewers location. Probably every moon is a blood moon in Beijing, with all the shit in the air.

149 Varek Raith  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 5:28:42pm

The moon is blood red because I stabbed it.
NEXT!

150 Justanotherhuman  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 5:30:09pm

re: #141 wrenchwench

They don’t even say what a blood moon is. Apparently there’s more than one definition. Whatever fits the prophecy, I guess.

Also known more traditionally as Hunter’s Moon. Should be up there tomorrow night.

151 Bubblehead II  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 5:30:27pm

re: #117 Charles Johnson

Oh, that - yes, that was happening when we had that DOS attack. The Create a Page button is dynamically inserted there, and if the Javascript files failed to load, it wouldn’t appear under some circumstances.

There’s no stealth blocking going on.

Didn’t think so. I seem to remember when I first joined back in 07 that you stated that you could do it, demonstrated the capability, but also stated that you thought it was unethical and would not engage in such tactics. Never had a reason to doubt your word.

152 dog philosopher  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 5:32:05pm

There’s no stealth blocking going on

too late - francis already thinks we hate him and he won’t come over and play anymore

153 ObserverArt  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 5:32:11pm

re: #141 wrenchwench

They don’t even say what a blood moon is. Apparently there’s more than one definition. Whatever fits the prophecy, I guess.

Really. What is the difference from that babble and going to see a tarot card reader, gypsy with a crystal ball, teas leaves, ouija board, magic 8 ball, pick-a-card on and on? Its all so vague anything could happen and it would fit. Just think of the coincidence!

154 Charles Johnson  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 5:32:38pm

re: #152 dog philosopher

There’s no stealth blocking going on

too late - francis already thinks we hate him and he won’t come over and play anymore

My disappointment, let me show you it.

155 EPR-radar  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 5:32:42pm

re: #152 dog philosopher

There’s no stealth blocking going on

too late - francis already thinks we hate him and he won’t come over and play anymore

Boo Hoo!!

156 Bubblehead II  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 5:32:59pm

re: #120 klys

Sadface.

No down ding, but irrc, back in either 07/08 Charles said such tactics was unethical and he wouldn’t engage in them.

157 Charles Johnson  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 5:33:20pm

re: #137 Vicious Babushka

158 Bubblehead II  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 5:33:45pm

re: #124 wrenchwench

Yeah, not your style.

More like, ‘With that, I bid you adieu’.

Or, ‘Get off my blog’.

Francis is still in ‘lolwut’ territory.

Yep.

159 GeneJockey  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 5:34:56pm

re: #148 goddamnedfrank

Yeah, I noticed that. Traditionally a blood moon occurs every year, in Fall, after the harvest moon. Any other definition is subject to the viewers location. Probably every moon is a blood moon in Beijing, with all the shit in the air.

In this case, they’re referring to a total lunar eclipse, where the only light on the moon refracts around the edges of the Earth’s atmosphere, and are red because that’s the wavelength that makes it through without being scattered.

160 EPR-radar  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 5:35:45pm

re: #153 ObserverArt

Really. What is the difference from that babble and going to see a tarot card reader, gypsy with a crystal ball, teas leaves, ouija board, magic 8 ball, pick-a-card on and on? Its all so vague anything could happen and it would fit. Just think of the coincidence!

Astrology performed a valuable service, back in the day, of motivating people to collect real data on the motion of planets.

Once it was clear that all of the strangeness of the apparent motion of planets was explicable in simple terms (i.e., elliptical planetary orbits around the Sun), astrology immediately became the useless nullity it is today.

161 wrenchwench  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 5:36:49pm

re: #159 GeneJockey

In this case, they’re referring to a total lunar eclipse, where the only light on the moon refracts around the edges of the Earth’s atmosphere, and are red because that’s the wavelength that makes it through without being scattered.

Which is god’s way of sending messages about doom, etc.

162 dog philosopher  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 5:38:40pm

moar wingnut sadface

Take Esquire’s ideology quiz. Quite a few people on my Facebook feed are upset that they are coming out as “radio talk head.” Esquire is trying to find the political center. It figures that their center is further to the left thus pushing people who think of themselves as moderates over to the right.

163 GeneJockey  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 5:40:00pm

re: #161 wrenchwench

Which is god’s way of sending messages about doom, etc.

Wull, yeah. Of course.

620-740 nm are the the Wavelengths of Doom. I thought everyone knew that.
//

164 EPR-radar  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 5:40:14pm

re: #161 wrenchwench

Which is god’s way of sending messages about doom, etc.

Using utterly predictable Earth-Moon-Sun orbital mechanics.

If God is trying to communicate, he should at least use something that has non-zero information content, like static on a TV.

165 ProTARDISLiberal  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 5:40:35pm

Back from Oklahoma for another 10-14 days.

Sorry to KLYS for the opinion thing yesterday.

166 GeneJockey  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 5:41:38pm

re: #164 EPR-radar

Using utterly predictable Earth-Moon-Sun orbital mechanics.

If God is trying to communicate, he should at least use something that has non-zero information content, like static on a TV.

But that would be too easy. God wants to make this information available only through certain people, and those people need your money - even with the world ending soon.

167 EPR-radar  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 5:42:18pm

re: #166 GeneJockey

But that would be too easy. God wants to make this information available only through certain people, and those people need your money - even with the world ending soon.

So send the money to the people who know how to predict the lunar eclipses?

168 GeneJockey  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 5:43:40pm

re: #167 EPR-radar

So send the money to the people who know how to predict the lunar eclipses?

Neil DeGrasse Tyson’s doing fine without it.

169 Charles Johnson  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 5:45:06pm
170 Justanotherhuman  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 5:48:19pm

Well.

Chinese scientists achieve Internet access through lightbulbs

news.xinhuanet.com

However…

“The term LiFi was coined by Harald Haas from the University of Edinburgh in the UK and refers to a type of visible light communication technology that delivers a networked, mobile, high-speed communication solution in a similar manner as WiFi. “

171 GeneJockey  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 5:48:23pm

I read something yesterday that I can’t quite get my mind around. The idea was that by “leading” his caucus into this debacle and knuckling under, getting the same deal he could have gotten in September, or for that matter July, Boehner has actually STRENGTHENED his hold on the GOP caucus.

This made no sense to me. The explanation was, if I understood it, that he’d TOLD THEM it wouldn’t work, and they insisted he do it anyway, so he did, and sure enough, it didn’t work. So now they think he’s a genius or something.

This is like worshipping the guy who tells you not to touch the stove because it’s hot, when you touch the stove anyway and discover it’s hot.

172 GeneJockey  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 5:51:13pm

re: #170 Justanotherhuman

Well.

Chinese scientists achieve Internet access through lightbulbs

news.xinhuanet.com

However…

“The term LiFi was coined by Harald Haas from the University of Edinburgh in the UK and refers to a type of visible light communication technology that delivers a networked, mobile, high-speed communication solution in a similar manner as WiFi. “

I KNEW that flickering fluorescent light in the kitchen was communicating with the Alien Overlords passing along my emails and browser history to the NSA!!!
//

173 Hercules Grytpype-Thynneghazi  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 5:52:18pm

re: #171 GeneJockey

I read something yesterday that I can’t quite get my mind around. The idea was that by “leading” his caucus into this debacle and knuckling under, getting the same deal he could have gotten in September, or for that matter July, Boehner has actually STRENGTHENED his hold on the GOP caucus.

This made no sense to me. The explanation was, if I understood it, that he’d TOLD THEM it wouldn’t work, and they insisted he do it anyway, so he did, and sure enough, it didn’t work. So now they think he’s a genius or something.

This is like worshipping the guy who tells you not to touch the stove because it’s hot, when you touch the stove anyway and discover it’s hot.

That might make sense for people who have spent their entire lives operating under the religiously held conviction that stoves produce cold.

174 ObserverArt  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 5:53:59pm

re: #172 GeneJockey

I KNEW that flickering fluorescent light in the kitchen was communicating with the Alien Overlords passing along my emails and browser history to the NSA!!!
//

Your neighbors were reading them like Morse code and them uploading them to the NSA. That’s how it works.

175 EPR-radar  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 5:57:02pm

re: #171 GeneJockey

The closest I can come to understanding this point of view is to note that the moderate Rs are, above all else, opportunists.

Had letting the crazies off the leash led to a “positive outcome” (i.e., concessions by Obama), the moderate Rs would have no problem with any incidental damage cause by the tea party wrecking crew.

So this could be viewed as strengthening Boehner’s case to the moderate Rs for not doing this circus again —- i.e., the days of Obama caving to GOP hostage taking are over.

It remains to be seen if Boehner is thinking along such sensible lines.

Of course, there is no point in Boehner making any kind of case to the GOP Teahadis, because they are incapable of reason.

176 wrenchwench  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 5:57:34pm

Later, lizards.

177 dog philosopher  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 5:57:48pm

The scientists had used two-photon microscopy — a new imaging technology that allows scientists to see deep inside living tissue — to peer into the brains of mice, which are remarkably similar to human brains.

to peer into the brains of mice

178 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 5:58:48pm

What a sick fuck

179 Bubblehead II  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 6:01:22pm

re: #176 wrenchwench

Night WW.

180 EPR-radar  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 6:01:52pm

re: #178 Vicious Babushka

If this kind of garbage bill becomes law, wouldn’t it be a fine dose of karma for Bryan Fischer to be convicted, penalized and then later exonerated?

181 aagcobb  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 6:04:02pm

re: #178 Vicious Babushka

What a sick fuck

[Embedded content]

Bryan probably gets hard thinking about it.

182 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 6:04:31pm

re: #180 EPR-radar

If this kind of garbage bill becomes law, wouldn’t it be a fine dose of karma for Bryan Fischer to be convicted, penalized and then later exonerated?

If they do this kind of stuff in Saudi Arabia, Bryan would be the very second person* to point and shout LOOK AT WHAT BARBARIC SAVAGES THEY ARE!!11!!!!!1

*Do you even have to ask who would be the first?

183 GeneJockey  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 6:05:55pm

re: #178 Vicious Babushka

What a sick fuck

[Embedded content]

Pedophiles are a difficult topic to discuss rationally, but here goes. First, I don’t think they choose their predilection. On the other hand, they can’t be allowed to pursue it. IIRC, studies show you can’t punish it out of them, and surgical castration may not really work either.

So, if you have someone who, through no fault of their own, cannot ever be trusted to live freely in society again, what do you do with them? Well, you COULD just kill them when you find them, and I’m sure a lot of people would favor that. Alternatively, you could keep them in prison forever, but prison is an especially dangerous place for pedophiles. Again, I’m sure a lot of people would think that was just fine, too.

If you have a group of people you can’t trust in society because they’ll hurt others, AND you don’t want to kill them outright, AND you don’t want to expose them to violent abuse in prison, you have to find some other way to keep them separate from society forever.

184 Dr Lizardo  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 6:07:35pm

Here’s an amusing story: John Kuzmanich, the founder and leader of the Oregon Tea Party, is on the run from process servers.

Why?

Because he’s three years behind on mortgage payments.


willametteweek.com

EDIT; the link takes you to the front page, it’s halfway down, left-hand side.

185 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 6:07:48pm

re: #183 GeneJockey

Pedophiles are a difficult topic to discuss rationally, but here goes. First, I don’t think they choose their predilection. On the other hand, they can’t be allowed to pursue it. IIRC, studies show you can’t punish it out of them, and surgical castration may not really work either.

So, if you have someone who, through no fault of their own, cannot ever be trusted to live freely in society again, what do you do with them? Well, you COULD just kill them when you find them, and I’m sure a lot of people would favor that. Alternatively, you could keep them in prison forever, but prison is an especially dangerous place for pedophiles. Again, I’m sure a lot of people would think that was just fine, too.

If you have a group of people you can’t trust in society because they’ll hurt others, AND you don’t want to kill them outright, AND you don’t want to expose them to violent abuse in prison, you have to find some other way to keep them separate from society forever.

Leper colonies.

186 PT Barnum  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 6:09:08pm

re: #183 GeneJockey

Pedophiles are a difficult topic to discuss rationally, but here goes. First, I don’t think they choose their predilection. On the other hand, they can’t be allowed to pursue it. IIRC, studies show you can’t punish it out of them, and surgical castration may not really work either.

So, if you have someone who, through no fault of their own, cannot ever be trusted to live freely in society again, what do you do with them? Well, you COULD just kill them when you find them, and I’m sure a lot of people would favor that. Alternatively, you could keep them in prison forever, but prison is an especially dangerous place for pedophiles. Again, I’m sure a lot of people would think that was just fine, too.

If you have a group of people you can’t trust in society because they’ll hurt others, AND you don’t want to kill them outright, AND you don’t want to expose them to violent abuse in prison, you have to find some other way to keep them separate from society forever.

I’m in favor of exposing them to violent abuse in prison of the same sort they perpetrated on their victims, but I’m vengeful like that. I have no sympathy for people like that.

187 GeneJockey  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 6:09:26pm

re: #185 Vicious Babushka

Leper colonies.

Something like, yeah. Offer them some form of work, etc. I mean, I feel compassion for them, but that doesn’t mean I think they should be allowed out.

188 Political Atheist  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 6:10:38pm

Those who commit and commend attacks like this are truly lost to hate and violence. They know not. So very saddening.

Afghanistan governor assassinated in mosque bombing
By Hashmat Baktash and Mark Magnier

KABUL, Afghanistan — A bomb placed in a mosque detonated during morning prayers Tuesday, killing the governor of eastern Logar province,…

189 PT Barnum  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 6:10:47pm

re: #186 PT Barnum

I’m in favor of exposing them to violent abuse in prison of the same sort they perpetrated on their victims, but I’m vengeful like that. I have no sympathy for people like that.

Feel free to down ding me for that sentiment but as a parent, I don’t know what I’d do if someone molested my son. I don’t like to think about it.

190 GeneJockey  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 6:12:32pm

re: #189 PT Barnum

Feel free to down ding me for that sentiment but as a parent, I don’t know what I’d do if someone molested my son. I don’t like to think about it.

That’s why we don’t ask parents and loved ones of victims to decide punishments. And I would never downding for a sentiment so honestly expressed.

191 GeneJockey  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 6:13:36pm

re: #184 Dr Lizardo

Here’s an amusing story: John Kuzmanich, the founder and leader of the Oregon Tea Party, is on the run from process servers.

Why?

Because he’s three years behind on mortgage payments.

willametteweek.com

[nelson muntz]Ha-ha![/nelson muntz]

192 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 6:13:42pm

DERP

193 Dr Lizardo  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 6:15:34pm

re: #191 GeneJockey

[nelson muntz]Ha-ha![/nelson muntz]

RESPONSIBILITY!! he has none.

194 Bubblehead II  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 6:16:07pm

re: #178 Vicious Babushka

To be perfectly honest, on one level I agree with him and am willing to go one step further and say these predators should be put down if convicted of sexually abusing a child.

But I also know how screwed up our legal system is and the chances of a mistake being made are to great for this type of irreversible punishment to be carried out.

I’ll settle for life, without parole, so that in the event the accused is found to have been wrongly convicted (s)he can leave prison alive and intact.

Best I can do.

195 Dr Lizardo  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 6:17:09pm

And with that, good night, Lizards.

196 EPR-radar  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 6:17:23pm

re: #183 GeneJockey

Pedophiles are a difficult topic to discuss rationally, but here goes. First, I don’t think they choose their predilection. On the other hand, they can’t be allowed to pursue it. IIRC, studies show you can’t punish it out of them, and surgical castration may not really work either.

So, if you have someone who, through no fault of their own, cannot ever be trusted to live freely in society again, what do you do with them? Well, you COULD just kill them when you find them, and I’m sure a lot of people would favor that. Alternatively, you could keep them in prison forever, but prison is an especially dangerous place for pedophiles. Again, I’m sure a lot of people would think that was just fine, too.

If you have a group of people you can’t trust in society because they’ll hurt others, AND you don’t want to kill them outright, AND you don’t want to expose them to violent abuse in prison, you have to find some other way to keep them separate from society forever.

This is why I seriously dislike any argument for gay rights that is predicated on orientation not being a choice.

If a behavior is unacceptable (i.e., pedophilia), it makes no difference at all whether the behavior is freely chosen or not.

Conversely, if a behavior is nobody’s business (i.e., consenting adults having sex), it also makes no difference at all whether more or less fixed orientations are relevant, or if people just want to try something different.

197 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 6:17:30pm

re: #178 Vicious Babushka

What a sick fuck

[Embedded content]

Often it’s the people who are secretly guilty of an offense themselves who advocate for the harshest punishments for that offense. There’s an exam that’s frequently given to people applying for jobs with a lot of fiduciary responsibility and one of the ways they identify risky, dishonest applicants is that they overcompensate on these kinds of questions, claim to be in favor of the harshest sentences.

I’m not saying that Brian Fischer is a child molester, but he’s probably a child molester.

198 Bubblehead II  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 6:17:37pm

re: #185 Vicious Babushka

Leper colonies.

I could live with that.

199 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 6:18:45pm

Another wingnut who does not understand what “Debt Ceiling” means.

200 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 6:21:25pm

LOL, from Imani:

Don Lemon and the Politics of Being an Asshole.

201 Charles Johnson  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 6:24:24pm
202 Justanotherhuman  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 6:26:14pm

re: #190 GeneJockey

Well, I’m not going to link this story because it made me sick to read it. But these people are out there. “Michigan dad pleads guilty to having sex with 3-year-old daughter”
“The dad admitted to raping his toddler, while the mom said she held the girl’s hands so ‘it wouldn’t hurt so much.’ Both parents were charged with first-degree criminal sexual conduct.”

There’s a lot more, because it was an on-going thing, but suffice it to say that her life is ruined, because she thinks all it consists of is sex. It will take years of therapy and who knows what else to get this child any semblance of a normal life, if she ever does.

He is facing life in prison and the mother has yet to be tried. Pedophiles are the scum of the earth as far as I’m concerned.

They know it’s wrong, but they still do it. They simply have no brakes on their behavior, and quite frankly, I don’t think they want to be cured because they don’t want to face who they are and the hell they create.

203 GeneJockey  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 6:27:24pm

re: #196 EPR-radar

This is why I seriously dislike any argument for gay rights that is predicated on orientation not being a choice.

If a behavior is unacceptable (i.e., pedophilia), it makes no difference at all whether the behavior is freely chosen or not.

Conversely, if a behavior is nobody’s business (i.e., consenting adults having sex), it also makes no difference at all whether more or less fixed orientations are relevant, or if people just want to try something different.

See, I ask first, “Does this behavior hurt any innocent person?”. If no, then it’s none of society’s business. If yes, then it IS society’s business.

Next, “Is it something the person chooses to do?” If yes, then maybe punishment can dissuade them. If no, then you can’t punish it out of them. They can’t ever be trusted in society, and must be permanently separated from it. This means death or permanent incarceration.

What I arrive at is prison for a length of time commensurate with their crime, then permanent exile to Coventry, which shouldn’t be luxurious, but also shouldn’t be excessively punitive.

204 klys  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 6:31:01pm

re: #156 Bubblehead II

No down ding, but irrc, back in either 07/08 Charles said such tactics was unethical and he wouldn’t engage in them.

Fair enough. That comment totally predates me and I am normally in full agreement. I am also human and francis found one of my nerves.

If he does show up again, I will return to my method of dealing with him that is downdinging virtually every comment of his and mocking him.

re: #165 ProTARDISLiberal

Back from Oklahoma for another 10-14 days.

Sorry to KLYS for the opinion thing yesterday.

No worries, just wanted to remind you that there are two sides to the coin. I don’t mind a preference I don’t share, I just dislike seeing it expressed in terms of negative comparisons.

205 ProTARDISLiberal  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 6:34:17pm

re: #204 klys

I am writing something on that. There is a context to me saying that.

Namely lunatics dropping deuces in Fandom areas.

206 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 6:36:13pm

re: #202 Justanotherhuman

They simply have no brakes on their behavior, and quite frankly, I don’t think they want to be cured because they don’t want to face who they are and the hell they create.

That’s a pretty blanket statement, pretty sure it’s wrong in a hell of a lot of cases. People can and do get all kinds of fucked up, develop all manner of different sexual fixations. I don’t think there’s any kind of evil magic that separates pedophiles from the rest of humanity in this regard, makes them immune from introspection, shame, self loathing, or prevents them from wanting to be different than they are.

Yes, they do a lot of harm, and that harm is inexcusable. However the kind of othering that treats them as an abstraction, as not only evil but wanting to be evil is, at best, not very useful.

207 klys  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 6:36:15pm

re: #205 ProTARDISLiberal

I am writing something on that. There is a context to me saying that.

Namely lunatics dropping deuces in Fandom areas.

My reaction to lunatics in fandom is generally to back away slowly, taking care not to make any sudden movements and draw their attention, and then go back to enjoying the thing I enjoy.

Works better that way.

208 simoom  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 6:39:02pm

re: #137 Vicious Babushka

[Embedded content]

My main issue with that interview is that Snowden wasn’t even once asked about the huge number of strictly foreign intelligence leaks or leaks about our allies intelligence gathering that Greenwald and Co. have put into the public domain. It’s a glaring inconsistency with the picture he paints, still insisting this was all about sparking a public debate about domestic surveillance, and he tries to make the case that he’s protecting US foreign intelligence information from our adversaries. NYT should have jumped all over the opportunity to either get him to stake out a position on foreign intelligence gathering more consistent with his leaks or to repudiate Greenwald & Poitras’ editorial decisions.

209 darthstar  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 6:40:15pm
210 Bubblehead II  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 6:41:26pm

re: #204 klys

re: #156 Bubblehead II

No down ding, but irrc, back in either 07/08 Charles said such tactics was unethical and he wouldn’t engage in them.

Fair enough. That comment totally predates me and I am normally in full agreement. I am also human and francis found one of my nerves.

If he does show up again, I will return to my method of dealing with him that is downdinging virtually every comment of his and mocking him.

No problem with that. I just DDed him and moved on.

211 dog philosopher  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 6:59:32pm

(tap, tap, tap)

212 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 6:59:36pm

re: #29 goddamnedfrank

Same composer, more directly to the point:

Come Boys, Lets All Be Gay, Boys

For that use of a song from The Student Prince, you get an upding. It’s my father’s favorite musical.

213 klys  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 7:03:38pm

Youtube Video

214 ProTARDISLiberal  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 7:04:21pm

re: #207 klys

Still plan on dealing with it.

215 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 7:04:42pm

PETA stole my idea for the new Redskins mascot.

I haz a sad now, because PETA sucks.

bleacherreport.com

216 Justanotherhuman  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 7:06:20pm

re: #206 goddamnedfrank

That’s a pretty blanket statement, pretty sure it’s wrong in a hell of a lot of cases. People can and do get all kinds of fucked up, develop all manner of different sexual fixations. I don’t think there’s any kind of evil magic that separates pedophiles from the rest of humanity in this regard, makes them immune from introspection, shame, self loathing, or prevents them from wanting to be different than they are.

Yes, they do a lot of harm, and that harm is inexcusable. However the kind of othering that treats them as an abstraction, as not only evil but wanting to be evil is, at best, not very useful.

I didn’t say they wanted “to be evil”. But they must understand instinctively that their behavior is wrong, that it is criminal.

I think we also have to be careful that we don’t minimize people’s intelligence and their level of understanding that their behavior is criminal, either. Most people know whether something is criminal behavior or not. “The devil made me do it” or “I couldn’t control myself” just doesn’t cut it from my POV. If that makes me a hard person, it’s because I’ve had experience with it.

We actually have a lot of freedom in sexual matters. But there are also boundaries, and people know what those are because we have laws outlining them. It’s hard for most people to have sympathy for anyone who strips another person, esp a child, of their right to live without fear and pain.

217 darthstar  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 7:09:59pm
218 Targetpractice  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 7:10:07pm

re: #209 darthstar

[Embedded content]

Scary part about all of it is that, had they gone into the shutdown portraying themselves as wanting to cut spending, they might have been able to succeed in getting something. Lost in the noise of the early days is that Bloomberg poll showing that 61% of the public wanted the debt ceiling to be raised in conjunction with spending cuts.

219 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 7:12:46pm
220 Petero1818  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 7:13:45pm

So it took exactly one day for Faux News to put Benghazi back atop their home page. But almost more amusing is that it turns out after 13 months of investigation the most damning thing the inquiry has come up with is that the US military was not well enough positioned in its global deployment to allow for fast response teams to protect American interests in every place. That is quite a charge./// I smell an impeachment.

221 Targetpractice  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 7:19:51pm

I don’t expect we’ll see the GOP seriously try to move Articles of Impeachment. At least not until after the mid-terms. Last thing they want to spend a big chunk of next year doing is putting on display to the American people just why they should not have a majority in either house of Congress, let alone the presidency.

222 aagcobb  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 7:23:49pm

re: #221 Targetpractice

I don’t expect we’ll see the GOP seriously try to move Articles of Impeachment. At least not until after the mid-terms. Last thing they want to spend a big chunk of next year doing is putting on display to the American people just why they should not have a majority in either house of Congress, let alone the presidency.

That’s the last thing Boehner wants. The Tea Party would be happy to do so.

223 Targetpractice  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 7:32:05pm

re: #222 aagcobb

That’s the last thing Boehner wants. The Tea Party would be happy to do so.

The Tea Party would love it, but the “moderates” want nothing to do with a rerun of Monicagate. Combine that with the almost guaranteed vote of not-guilty that the Senate would hand down and it’s a no-brainer. There’s just no chance that Boehner would allow Articles of Impeachment to come to a vote unless there was better than even odds that Democrats would support a conviction.

224 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 7:34:38pm

re: #219 Vicious Babushka

[Embedded content]

Lincoln was prepared to leave those places alone, but the South wasn’t willing to to limit the expansion of slavery. It demanded Kansas as a slave state, even though the majority of the people living in the territory did not want want slavery there. But the slaveholders reacted to any talk of limiting them with hate and fear and in their paranoia they convinced themselves that Lincoln’s election would be the end of them unless their states succeeded. We all know what came after.

225 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 7:35:53pm

re: #223 Targetpractice

The Tea Party would love it, but the “moderates” want nothing to do with a rerun of Monicagate. Combine that with the almost guaranteed vote of not-guilty that the Senate would hand down and it’s a no-brainer. There’s just no chance that Boehner would allow Articles of Impeachment to come to a vote unless there was better than even odds that Democrats would support a conviction.

Which the Dems would never do unless Obama were “caught in the bedroom with a dead woman or a live boy”.

226 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 7:38:49pm

re: #216 Justanotherhuman

I didn’t say they wanted “to be evil”. But they must understand instinctively that their behavior is wrong, that it is criminal.

No, what you said is that you didn’t think they wanted to be cured. That’s ridiculous, I’m sure many of them want to be cured. Just like many hard drug users want to be cured, and making drug use illegal hasn’t fixed that problem. Make no mistake, sexual fixations can act on the same parts of the brain as addictive drugs. These people are sick, and yes they need to be locked up, but saying they don’t want to be cured is just another way of dehumanizing them, which isn’t helpful at all. Especially when there are documented cases of pedophiles volunteering for chemical castration.

I think we also have to be careful that we don’t minimize people’s intelligence and their level of understanding that their behavior is criminal, either. Most people know whether something is criminal behavior or not. “The devil made me do it” or “I couldn’t control myself” just doesn’t cut it from my POV. If that makes me a hard person, it’s because I’ve had experience with it.

Knowing something is illegal, or even evil in and of itself which is a much better standard if we’re talking about pedophilia, and summoning the willpower to stop doing that thing are two separate issues, especially when a person’s pathological mental condition not only drives them to do it but actively rewards their pleasure centers for doing it.

None of this precludes them from feeling the other attendant emotions of being driven to commit an atrocity. People are complex, they can and will hate themselves for feeling unable to stop doing things they very much wish they could stop doing. Even when they see the harm and in many cases experienced it firsthand as children themselves. Saying it’s all about willpower is simplistic, people know and experience first hand the harm they do to themselves and their loved ones by overeating, gambling, and drinking - if stopping was easy they’d do it.

It’s hard for most people to have sympathy for anyone who strips another person, esp a child, of their right to live without fear and pain.

Sympathy doesn’t even enter into it. You don’t need to have sympathy for them to want to view them as accurately as possible. Saying that you don’t think they want to be cured isn’t doing that, it’s letting emotion override reason. You can still view pedophilia as a disease, a scourge, you can even advocate that they all be preemptively locked up without categorically denying that they want to be cured.

227 Political Atheist  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 7:40:24pm

re: #201 Charles Johnson

Rename the Tea Party?

Surely NeoPuritans fits

228 Hercules Grytpype-Thynneghazi  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 7:42:24pm

re: #225 Dark_Falcon

Which the Dems would never do unless Obama were “caught in the bedroom with a dead woman or a live boy”.

Which the Dems would never do because there’s no cause to do so, and because the whole idea of impeachment is a political stunt driven by the ugly idea that Obama’s presidency isn’t legitimate in the first place.

229 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 7:42:53pm

re: #228 Hercules Grytpype-Thynneghazi

Which the Dems would never do because there’s no cause to do so, and because the whole idea of impeachment is a political stunt driven by the ugly idea that Obama’s presidency isn’t legitimate in the first place.

Just so.

230 Hercules Grytpype-Thynneghazi  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 7:42:57pm

re: #227 Political Atheist

Rename the Tea Party?

Surely NeoPuritans fits

The Know-Nothing Party. Yes, I know it’s been used before, but so has Tea Party.

231 ProTARDISLiberal  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 7:47:53pm

Apparently, the Pope has a Harley.

232 klys  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 7:49:16pm

Crap, I just realized this Christmas means I have to fly out of Newark again.

Home of the TSA that doesn’t understand the whole concept of “tablets” or “DSLR cameras” and bitches when you don’t take them out of your bags.

233 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 7:51:36pm

re: #232 klys

Crap, I just realized this Christmas means I have to fly out of Newark again.

Home of the TSA that doesn’t understand the whole concept of “tablets” or “DSLR cameras” and bitches when you don’t take them out of your bags.

I had a bag searched the other day due to the X-ray finding a box with three slices of fudge in it suspicious.

234 Targetpractice  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 7:55:53pm

Well, looks like Cucci is screwed next months. How do I know? The unskewing of the polls has begun.

235 GeneJockey  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 8:04:31pm

re: #216 Justanotherhuman

I didn’t say they wanted “to be evil”. But they must understand instinctively that their behavior is wrong, that it is criminal.

I think we also have to be careful that we don’t minimize people’s intelligence and their level of understanding that their behavior is criminal, either. Most people know whether something is criminal behavior or not. “The devil made me do it” or “I couldn’t control myself” just doesn’t cut it from my POV. If that makes me a hard person, it’s because I’ve had experience with it.

We actually have a lot of freedom in sexual matters. But there are also boundaries, and people know what those are because we have laws outlining them. It’s hard for most people to have sympathy for anyone who strips another person, esp a child, of their right to live without fear and pain.

I worked for a guy with Tourettes. He didn’t scream obscenities, he just had a couple tics. He could, with great effort, control them, briefly, but when he tired, they’d come back even worse. He said they’re not exactly involuntary, but rather, compulsive. This made me think a bit about what one does and does not have a choice about, and how, once again, the line between ‘choice’ and ‘not choice’ is not necessarily clear and distinct.

I agree with everything you say about the effect on the victims, and while I agree they do have responsibility, it’s not as simple as it being completely within their control.

236 Romantic Heretic  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 8:07:44pm

re: #227 Political Atheist

Rename the Tea Party?

Surely NeoPuritans fits

Neo-Bolsheviks.

Especially as they agree with Marx on how capitalism works and what results to expect from it. Their only divergence is they think this is a good thing for all rather than Marx’s conclusion that such a system is bad for everybody.

A minor difference in my opinion.

237 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 8:09:10pm
“We must not see any person as an abstraction. Instead, we must see in every person a universe with its own secrets, with its own treasures, with its own sources of anguish, and with some measure of triumph.”

-Elie Wiesel, The Nazi Doctors and the Nuremberg Code

This is, I think, one of the most useful and instructive quotes I’ve ever come across. The message is powerful, especially when one considers not only who wrote it, but who they were referring to.

238 FemNaziBitch  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 8:09:25pm

Meerkitties!

239 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 8:10:32pm

Rename the Tea Party?

Trash Boat.

240 gwangung  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 8:13:52pm

re: #239 goddamnedfrank

Rename the Tea Party?

Trash Boat.

Red Guard wannabees.

With Ayn Rand substituting for Mao.

241 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 8:14:46pm

re: #237 goddamnedfrank

This is, I think, one of the most useful and instructive quotes I’ve ever come across. The message is powerful, especially when one considers not only who wrote it, but who they were referring to.

I’m not sure I agree entirely. My reasoning being that in a case where a dangerous enemy has to be killed, seeing the as an abstract ‘terrorist’ or ‘thug’ might be the better course so as not dwell too much on having killed said enemy.

Or am i just full of crap?

242 FemNaziBitch  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 8:16:14pm

As long as it was her choice —-LOL

243 darthstar  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 8:17:26pm

re: #242 FemNaziBitch

As long as it was her choice —-LOL

One of those cars sleeps with its wheels on. Weird.

244 FemNaziBitch  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 8:18:39pm

I actually think this is funny.

245 FemNaziBitch  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 8:20:00pm

re: #237 goddamnedfrank

This is, I think, one of the most useful and instructive quotes I’ve ever come across. The message is powerful, especially when one considers not only who wrote it, but who they were referring to.

Abstraction is an excellent alternative to thing. Although probably as well understood by the average person.

246 CuriousLurker  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 8:24:51pm

re: #237 goddamnedfrank

This is, I think, one of the most useful and instructive quotes I’ve ever come across. The message is powerful, especially when one considers not only who wrote it, but who they were referring to.

This. It reminds me of something I was reading yesterday. In the snippet in question, the woman is referring to her paternal (the Goering side) grandmother who was “the Nazi in the family” and a Holocaust denier:

An Interview With Nazi Leader Hermann Goering’s Great-Niece
How do you cope with evil ancestry?

“Did your grandmother have a good side?”

“I really judged this family as negative, almost all of them. That’s something that I’ve been now working to change, and I’m seeing a much more complex picture even of my grandmother. It’s very illuminating.”

“What changed?”

“I did research. My grandmother was brought up in a family where all the men died all the time. They were all military. Her father died when she was five. There were so many wars back then.”

“Yes, you can imagine that with so much loss in her life, she had to convince herself it was for something worthwhile.”

“Exactly.”

“Do you see any goodness in Hermann?”

“That’s hard to say. Is somebody ever totally bad or good? I hope not. I think certain circumstances happen that might turn somebody into a psychopath. When I see Hermann as a family person, I think he’s really nice, and charming, and incredibly caretaking, and it’s hard for me to see flaws. But then you see what he does in politics and how he killed people, including his so-called friends.”

“What do you mean?”

“Are you familiar with the Röhm Putsch?”

“You mean when the Nazis purged the army?”

“That shocked me almost more than some of his later actions, because they were his friends. He had no qualms to shoot just anybody.”

“Are you afraid that you inherited some of his traits?”

“Yes and no. I met a cousin that I hadn’t seen in nearly 50 years and we both have big qualms to do anything too big—to be in a position of any power because there is something in the background that you could do something bad.” […]

theatlantic.com

247 sagehen  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 8:29:27pm

re: #143 Justanotherhuman

Yeah, I remember back in the day when all the AFL-CIO unions leaned left, opposed the war, and, officially, we endorsed McGovern in 1972, and the Teamsters came out for Nixon. The Teamsters organized in a lot of different businesses, competing with the AFL-CIO, and where they represented non-trucking employees, they were a lousy union, pretty much writing sweetheart contracts.

Why on earth would unions oppose reelection for the guy who signed OSHA into existence?

248 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 8:29:58pm

re: #241 Dark_Falcon

I’m not sure I agree entirely. My reasoning being that in a case where a dangerous enemy has to be killed, seeing the as an abstract ‘terrorist’ or ‘thug’ might be the better course so as not dwell too much on having killed said enemy.

Or am i just full of crap?

Yeah, pretty much. It’s basically how we got so deep into the quagmire of the War on Terror. We treated it like a war of attrition, except the enemy was like Samael from Hellboy, each death spawned two more. We basically denied to ourselves that examining and understanding our enemies’ motivations was important, and added to that in accepting so much collateral damage we counterproductively motivated many family members to to take up arms against us.

Hearts and minds was a slogan, when it should have been a guiding principle. You can’t get there if you’re being deliberately simplistic for the sake of feeling better about what you’re doing.

249 dog philosopher  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 8:32:44pm

re: #237 goddamnedfrank

This is, I think, one of the most useful and instructive quotes I’ve ever come across. The message is powerful, especially when one considers not only who wrote it, but who they were referring to.

people want to believe that they are good and are doing the right thing, no matter what it is

250 ProTARDISLiberal  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 8:37:57pm

re: #248 goddamnedfrank

The thing with Afghanistan is that the Taliban has been and continues to be supported by Pakistan. Most of the rank and file are from Pakistan, then and now.

Without dealing with Pakistan, the Taliban was always going to regenerate. In an op-ed after the death of Bin Laden, Hitchens pointed out that a former Head of the Afghan’s Intel Agency said that he thought we declared war on the wrong nation.

He is likely correct on this point.

251 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 8:38:32pm

re: #249 dog philosopher

people want to believe that they are good and are doing the right thing, no matter what it is

I think for the most part yes. There probably are some abjectly evil people out there, even ones that don’t want to be cured. But they don’t all fit into one easy label, they don’t all have one telltale, characteristic pet sin, like pedophilia. Wiesel was probably crafting a rule that applies to the vast majority of humanity, but not everybody. I think the point is that dwelling on the incredibly rare exception just isn’t useful, and not only that, it can be dangerous.

252 dog philosopher  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 8:39:10pm

Rename the Tea Party?

self appointed know-it-alls

social darwinist party

253 Gus  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 8:39:17pm

re: #246 CuriousLurker

>This. It reminds me of something I was reading yesterday. The snippet in question—the woman is referring to her paternal (the Goering side) grandmother who was “the Nazi in the family” and a Holocaust denier:

Hermann Goering. Made me breathe in through my nose.

254 CuriousLurker  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 8:43:04pm

re: #249 dog philosopher

people want to believe that they are good and are doing the right thing, no matter what it is

And that’s exactly the desire that gets manipulated by propagandists, at least that’s what I understood after reading some of the materials that were part of a Page I posed a couple of days ago: Combating Terrorism Center at West Point

255 dog philosopher  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 8:44:19pm

re: #253 Gus

Hermann Goering. Made me breathe in through my nose.

goering the nazi

not to be confused with nasi goring

why do they try to confuse me like that???

256 HoosierHoops  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 8:44:34pm

Oh Dear God..Why didn’t you lizards help me?
For this last week I’ve gone through an MRI and exams and whacked out on Pain Killers..So, ahem..I posted about personal politics..And other stuff..some funny, some not…I feel OK so no more pills..But.. Did you guys warn me? Help me in my dark hour? :)
So you are going to love this..I checked my tabs in Firefox the last few days..Dozens and dozens in a haze..A pain pill haze..
So I scheduled a tour of a house with some high Class Reality company. Next week….Wait for it.. Ecuador!! What deals!
montanitarentals.com
You could have saved me..What the hell else did I do? I’m pretty sure I ordered shit from Amazon and newegg…but what else?

Hi Guys..Got coffee brewing

257 CuriousLurker  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 8:45:52pm

re: #253 Gus

Hermann Goering. Made me breathe in through my nose.

Can you imagine what it’s like growing up knowing you’re related, no matter how distantly, to one of those people? *shudder*

258 dog philosopher  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 8:46:44pm

re: #254 CuriousLurker

And that’s exactly the desire that gets manipulated by propagandists, at least that’s what I understood after reading some of the materials that were part of a Page I posed a couple of days ago: Combating Terrorism Center at West Point

absolutely fascinating - thanks!

259 CuriousLurker  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 8:48:17pm

re: #258 dog philosopher

absolutely fascinating - thanks!

Yep, there’s some really interesting stuff there—you’re welcome!

260 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 8:58:00pm

re: #250 ProTARDISLiberal

The thing with Afghanistan is that the Taliban has been and continues to be supported by Pakistan. Most of the rank and file are from Pakistan, then and now.

Without dealing with Pakistan, the Taliban was always going to regenerate. In an op-ed after the death of Bin Laden, Hitchens pointed out that a former Head of the Afghan’s Intel Agency said that he thought we declared war on the wrong nation.

He is likely correct on this point.

The problem was that bin Laden wasn’t in Pakistan and he and Al Qaeda were the immediate post-9/1 targets.

Plus Pakistan has nukes, which makes any kind of overtly hostile action very dicey.

261 austin_blue  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 8:58:39pm

re: #183 GeneJockey

Pedophiles are a difficult topic to discuss rationally, but here goes. First, I don’t think they choose their predilection. On the other hand, they can’t be allowed to pursue it. IIRC, studies show you can’t punish it out of them, and surgical castration may not really work either.

So, if you have someone who, through no fault of their own, cannot ever be trusted to live freely in society again, what do you do with them? Well, you COULD just kill them when you find them, and I’m sure a lot of people would favor that. Alternatively, you could keep them in prison forever, but prison is an especially dangerous place for pedophiles. Again, I’m sure a lot of people would think that was just fine, too.

If you have a group of people you can’t trust in society because they’ll hurt others, AND you don’t want to kill them outright, AND you don’t want to expose them to violent abuse in prison, you have to find some other way to keep them separate from society forever.

Send them to Coventry, and Johnston Atoll is available as Coventry.

262 austin_blue  Thu, Oct 17, 2013 9:01:00pm

re: #260 Dark_Falcon

The problem was that bin Laden wasn’t in Pakistan and he and Al Qaeda were the immediate post-9/1 targets.

Plus Pakistan has nukes, which makes any kind of overtly hostile action very dicey.

No long range delivery system. What are the gonna do? Blow themselves up? The ISI has been backing the Taliban since the Russian invasion. Nasty choices all around.


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