David Auerbach on That New York Times “500 Million Lines of Code” Claim

Ubiquitous tech fail
Media • Views: 28,094

Yesterday I wrote about the New York Times article citing an anonymous “specialist” who made absurd claims about the software that drives the new Healthcare.gov website, particularly that the web application consists of 500 million lines of code (highly doubtful) of which 5 million need to be fixed.

Here’s a really good piece with more on these ridiculous statements, by David Auerbach: Healthcare.gov Problems: What 5 Million Lines of Code Really Means.

I have no idea who the Times’ sources were, but they sure sound like employees of CGI Federal. Because they almost certainly aren’t programmers, I’d guess they are probably mid- or high-level managers who are trying to salvage CGI Federal’s reputation. They may well be “specialists,” but their specialty is more likely the art of procuring government contracts.

This is to be expected. What’s less expected is that such anonymous sources would be treated with this degree of credulity by national reporters who lack technical understanding of their subject matter and are thus more likely to parrot whatever a “specialist” tells them. The Times has a great tech reporter, Natasha Singer, who has done well-informed work on consumer profiling, taking little for granted. They should put her on this story.

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168 comments
1 Kragar  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 2:05:48pm

The media doesn’t want facts getting in the way of telling a story.

2 Justanotherhuman  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 2:07:49pm

I’ll leave this one up to you coders because, like the ones reporting on it, I know absolutely nothing about code, and am quite a technical ignoramus.

3 freetoken  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 2:18:04pm
What’s less expected is that such anonymous sources would be treated with this degree of credulity by national reporters who lack technical understanding of their subject matter and are thus more likely to parrot whatever a “specialist” tells them.

Unlike Auerbach, I’m not surprised at this at all.

Indeed, my curmudgeonly hobby of picking apart the mindlessness of so much “reporting” has left me numb to the dumb.

4 darthstar  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 2:18:23pm

500 million lines of code, and only one punctuation mark.
/semi-colon abuse.

5 b.d.  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 2:18:39pm

re: #2 Justanotherhuman

I’ll leave this one up to you coders because, like the ones reporting on it, I know absolutely nothing about code, and am quite a technical ignoramus.

Yep, there are topics that I actually do know something about, this ain’t one of them.

6 Kragar  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 2:21:09pm

re: #4 darthstar

500 million lines of code, and only one punctuation mark.
/semi-colon abuse.

Semi-colons you say?

Youtube Video

7 Charles Johnson  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 2:21:17pm

In order to write 500 million lines of code, you’d need 4,000 programmers writing 100 lines of code a day for more than 3 years.

8 Kragar  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 2:22:21pm

re: #7 Charles Johnson

In order to write 500 million lines of code, you’d need 4,000 programmers writing 100 lines of code a day for more than 3 years.

Or a lot of copypasta.

Or a lot of copypasta.

9 GeneJockey  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 2:22:21pm

re: #7 Charles Johnson

In order to write 500 million lines of code, you’d need 4,000 programmers writing 100 lines of code a day for more than 3 years.

If you had an infinite number of monkeys, working at an infinite number of desktops, you’d have an enormous cleaning bill.

10 AlexRogan  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 2:23:21pm

re: #8 Kragar

Or a lot of copypasta.

Or a lot of copypasta.

I see what you did there…

11 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 2:24:46pm

[Dudebro]WHY ARE YOU NOT PAYING ATTENTION TO ME? ME! ME![/Dudebro]

12 darthstar  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 2:25:53pm

The one thing I understand the government mishandled is they didn’t start load testing until a month before roll out - which didn’t give them time to make the changes necessary to handle traffic - they were getting crashes with only a few hundred current connections. Scaling a massive roll out like this isn’t easy. I was responsible for testing our new data center in Las Vegas when I worked for Cafepress - we went live just a few weeks before the holiday e-shopping season with it. I tested the living crap out of it (from inside the datacenter) and was running load tests on the servers and databases in production right up until we flipped the switch, so they were warm and ready to handle real traffic. Soon after, we had our first ever 1,000,000 dollar sales day - and the site hummed along without a stitch. 20,000 transactions (sales) in an hour. I was pretty happy with that effort…but it was definitely one hell of an effort.

That said, I expect the government is going to be doing something similar before they roll the new code and servers into production…it’ll be a rolling deployment where they add and remove stacks from the pool until everything is online, and it will have been a resolved issue for over a week before anyone notices in the media, because when shit works, it doesn’t make any noise.

13 jaunte  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 2:26:57pm

Assuming 1/8 inch for each line of code, 500,000,000 lines stacked would stretch from Worcester, Mass to Chicago. (Driving time, 15 hours, 49 minutes).

14 piratedan  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 2:28:50pm

re: #11 Vicious Babushka

[Dudebro]WHY ARE YOU NOT PAYING ATTENTION TO ME? ME! ME![/Dudebro]

[Embedded content]

GG is correct, however the traitor to his country meme is still good to go….

15 Kragar  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 2:29:03pm

re: #11 Vicious Babushka

16 jaunte  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 2:29:06pm

re: #11 Vicious Babushka

“fame-seeking narcissist”

He’s heard that one before.

17 freetoken  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 2:29:33pm

re: #12 darthstar

The real problem with government buying systems is that the government is designed to be a massive collection of non-interacting stovepipes.

There is no central government system design/buying expertise. It’s spread out all over the different cabinet departments.

The ACA software is but a tiny portion of all software and systems developed/bought by our government.

18 GeneJockey  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 2:29:38pm

re: #15 Kragar

[Embedded content]

I see what you did there.

19 Justanotherhuman  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 2:30:20pm

Lose your job going out in a blaze of glory. Or not.

House Stenographer On Administrative Leave Following Outburst, Says Aide

huffingtonpost.com

“Her husband later said she had been awakened by “the Holy Spirit” and was told to deliver a message on the House floor, where she has worked for the past eight years.

(snip)

“The incident has cast doubts on Reidy’s future in the House, given her violation of congressional decorum. Asked for comment on whether Reidy would be back, Sally Wood, a spokeswoman for the House Administration Committee, which oversees the House Clerk’s Office, told HuffPost she is “not authorized” to discuss personnel matters.”

OK, so hubby says she’s not crazy, just “awakened”.

20 ProTARDISLiberal  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 2:31:13pm

Did a little research, found out how the Anti-Muslim Bigot ended up mayor of Lewiston, ME.

He won by 70 votes in a special election. Out of 5,023. In addition, his opponent had died the day before voting. MacDonald is likely in some amount of trouble.

21 jaunte  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 2:31:48pm

Oil price at its lowest level since June

…Analysts at The Schork Report estimated that U.S. commercial crude oil stocks are at the third highest level for October since 1930 and 13 percent above the normal range over the previous decade.

22 GeneJockey  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 2:32:11pm

re: #19 Justanotherhuman

Lose your job going out in a blaze of glory. Or not.

House Stenographer On Administrative Leave Following Outburst, Says Aide

huffingtonpost.com

“Her husband later said she had been awakened by “the Holy Spirit” and was told to deliver a message on the House floor, where she has worked for the past eight years.

(snip)

“The incident has cast doubts on Reidy’s future in the House, given her violation of congressional decorum. Asked for comment on whether Reidy would be back, Sally Wood, a spokeswoman for the House Administration Committee, which oversees the House Clerk’s Office, told HuffPost she is “not authorized” to discuss personnel matters.”

OK, so hubby says she’s not crazy, just “awakened”.

“It’s not stupid! It’s advanced!”

23 GeneJockey  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 2:32:51pm

re: #21 jaunte

Oil price at its lowest level since June

This can only be because of Bush’s threat to tap the strategic reserve, back in 2008…

24 Kragar  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 2:32:59pm

re: #21 jaunte

Oil price at its lowest level since June

Exactly what you would expect with a Saudi operative in the White House!

Wait, what?
/

25 ProTARDISLiberal  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 2:33:07pm

re: #20 ProTARDISLiberal

The full results.

OFFICE OF MAYOR
Robert E. Macdonald 2,543
Mark W. Paradis 2,473
Blank ballots 7
Overvoted ballots 0
TOTAL BALLOTS CAST 5,023

26 freetoken  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 2:33:09pm

Speaking of computers, I’m watching the latest Apple event and it has an odour of marketing desperation by Apple. Lower prices, giving software away - this is because the market is pretty saturated by now, I think.

27 GeneJockey  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 2:34:15pm

re: #26 freetoken

Speaking of computers, I’m watching the latest Apple event and it has an odour of marketing desperation by Apple. Lower prices, giving software away - this is because the market is pretty saturated by now, I think.

Perhaps “Buy our new, incrementally different toy!!!” has run its course?

28 Kragar  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 2:34:19pm

re: #22 GeneJockey

“It’s not stupid! It’s >advanced!”

“I put the fires out.”
“You made them worse!”
“Worse… or better?”

29 jaunte  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 2:34:46pm

Rep. Issa: White House ruined ObamaCare site

Republicans on the House Oversight Committee on Tuesday charged that the federal ObamaCare site is floundering because federal officials tried to hide the “sticker shock” of insurance premiums.

In a letter to two top technology officers at the Office of Management and Budget, Oversight Chairman Darrell Issa (R-Calif.) accused the administration of making the “political decision” to mask the costs of insurance premiums online, which he says contributed to the botched website development.

Time To Investigate!

30 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 2:35:13pm

Hmm, now we know what The Most Interesting Programmer in the World has been doing for the last few months.
/

31 Kragar  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 2:36:46pm
32 GeneJockey  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 2:36:54pm

Okay, I confess I have no clue about coding. But I was just remembering the poor bastards in college, learning COBOL, with their shoeboxes full of cards, and imagining 500,000,000 cards.

THere aren’t enough shoe boxes in the world.

33 Backwoods_Sleuth  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 2:37:37pm

re: #32 GeneJockey

Okay, I confess I have no clue about coding. But I was just remembering the poor bastards in college, learning COBOL, with their shoeboxes full of cards, and imagining 500,000,000 cards.

THere aren’t enough shoe boxes in the world.

And those pesky hanging chads on the punch cards…

34 Kragar  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 2:39:37pm
35 GeneJockey  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 2:40:02pm

re: #33 Backwoods_Sleuth

And those pesky hanging chads on the punch cards…

“Fatal error on card 3. Failed to compile”

SHIT!! (retype card 3, resubmit to Charlie the computer guy)

“Fatal error on card 5. Failed to compile”

FUCK!! (lather, rinse, repeat)

You see, my girlfriend was taking Comp. Sci 1.

36 Bulworth  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 2:40:32pm

re: #22 GeneJockey

Just moar persecution of good Christian folk by Obummer’s people who run the House. //

37 Backwoods_Sleuth  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 2:41:41pm

re: #35 GeneJockey

“Fatal error on card 3. Failed to compile”

SHIT!! (retype card 3, resubmit to Charlie the computer guy)

“Fatal error on card 5. Failed to compile”

FUCK!! (lather, rinse, repeat)

You see, my girlfriend was taking Comp. Sci 1.

sadly, I remember that scenario all too well, these many decades later…

38 Justanotherhuman  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 2:42:01pm

re: #22 GeneJockey

“It’s not stupid! It’s >advanced!”

When contacted by reporters, the “Holy Spirit” had no comment.

39 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 2:42:13pm

re: #35 GeneJockey

“Fatal error on card 3. Failed to compile”

SHIT!! (retype card 3, resubmit to Charlie the computer guy)

“Fatal error on card 5. Failed to compile”

FUCK!! (lather, rinse, repeat)

You see, my girlfriend was taking Comp. Sci 1.

Those were the days.

40 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 2:43:06pm
41 Kragar  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 2:43:37pm

re: #39 Vicious Babushka

Those were the days.

“My disk is almost full”
“Here, let me clip the sleeve. Now put it in upside down.”

SHE’S A SORCERER!

42 Backwoods_Sleuth  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 2:44:50pm
43 GeneJockey  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 2:45:11pm

re: #40 Vicious Babushka

[Embedded content]

Well, after all, Hitler created a Thousand Year Reich that didn’t work as advertized.
//

44 Kragar  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 2:45:19pm
45 GeneJockey  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 2:45:42pm

re: #42 Backwoods_Sleuth

Papers please!

Image: 1382057_423989767700820_1133000446_n.jpg

That’s not a meerkat! That’s a mere cat!

46 kirkspencer  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 2:46:04pm

re: #35 GeneJockey

“Fatal error on card 3. Failed to compile”

SHIT!! (retype card 3, resubmit to Charlie the computer guy)

“Fatal error on card 5. Failed to compile”

FUCK!! (lather, rinse, repeat)

You see, my girlfriend was taking Comp. Sci 1.

Fortunately, I got to use the punch tape machine. I say fortunately even though the same problem happened with that, but at least I didn’t face someone maliciously adding or swapping or removing a card.

47 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 2:49:12pm
48 Backwoods_Sleuth  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 2:50:48pm

well, well, well…
the witch from North Carolina (US Rep. Renee Ellmers) who called my governor a liar about the health insurance exchange in Kentucky has a brand new problem of her own…

Unsecured AR-15 Stolen from Pro-Gun Congresswoman’s Home

49 Justanotherhuman  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 2:52:17pm

Ewww. A toilet themed restaurant? That would put me off my noodles…

reuters.com

50 dog philosopher  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 2:56:03pm

500 Million Lines of Code

not sure whether this will be the name of my next album or my next science fiction novel

51 Backwoods_Sleuth  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 2:57:30pm

re: #50 dog philosopher

500 Million Lines of Code

not sure whether this will be the name of my next album or my next science fiction novel

The nerds’ version of “40 Shades of Gray”…

52 Targetpractice  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 2:57:50pm

re: #42 Backwoods_Sleuth

Papers please!

Image: 1382057_423989767700820_1133000446_n.jpg

Gentlemen, there’s a spy among us.

53 dog philosopher  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 3:00:58pm

re: #7 Charles Johnson

In order to write 500 million lines of code, you’d need 4,000 programmers writing 100 lines of code a day for more than 3 years.

i’ve seen junior pgmrs turn one 10 line routine into fifty lines of code by fucking cloning it off into five copies of the same routine with only one fucking line changed

STOP CLONING UP MAH CODEBASE!!

54 darthstar  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 3:05:57pm
55 GeneJockey  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 3:07:19pm

re: #47 Vicious Babushka

[Embedded content]

I hear that Pascal guy likes to make wagers.
//

56 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 3:07:37pm

Oh my god the conspiracy about the fainting woman is so dumb it goddamn hurts.

Why do they think something so kind of awkward would be staged? It wasn’t like, she went down and Obama grabbed her. He didn’t stop his speech, he just stabilized her until someone else came to help her away. It wasn’t really a big deal, I think that Boehner would probably help to stabilize fainting pregnant women too, it’s a relatively normal human reaction. I actually think he, and the other guys near her, could have leaped into action a bit quicker and not relied on that assistant to scurry out and take care of shit. Pregnant woman unsteady on her feet— offer some serious support.

57 GeneJockey  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 3:10:25pm

re: #56 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Oh my god the conspiracy about the fainting woman is so dumb it goddamn hurts.

I know. There’s apparently nothing too small and insignificant to build a conspiracy theory around.

WHAT DOES IT SAY ABOUT THEM, THAT WE WOULD THINK THIS WAS PLAUSIBLE?!?!?!?

Not a thing. Not a blessed thing.

58 Kragar  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 3:10:59pm

Battlestar Galactica meets Warhammer 40k, with a lot of spare bits

Image: 984320_10151643675525729_1173598053_n.jpg

59 GeneJockey  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 3:12:28pm

re: #58 Kragar

Battlestar Galactica meets Warhammer 40k, with a lot of spare bits

Image: 984320_10151643675525729_1173598053_n.jpg

Looks like lots of bits to fall off in the launch tubes.

60 Justanotherhuman  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 3:14:36pm

re: #48 Backwoods_Sleuth

well, well, well…
the witch from North Carolina (US Rep. Renee Ellmers) who called my governor a liar about the health insurance exchange in Kentucky has a brand new problem of her own…

Unsecured AR-15 Stolen from Pro-Gun Congresswoman’s Home

No doubt the Ellmers are “royalty” in this little town of just over 9K, from looking at the McMansion they live in. 24% of the population is under the poverty level. Ellmers is a nurse who married a surgeon (Brent) after they met at Beaumont Hospital in MI, moving to Dunn, NC and both working in the med practice. Dunn is the largest “city” in Harnett County, which is mainly rural and pretty much in the armpit of NC. I expect the Ellmers made much of their fortune from both Medicare and Medicaid programs, considering the location of the practice.

61 Kragar  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 3:14:37pm

re: #59 GeneJockey

Looks like lots of bits to fall off in the launch tubes.

Imperial Navy doesn’t use launch tubes.

62 GeneJockey  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 3:16:46pm

re: #61 Kragar

Imperial Navy doesn’t use launch tubes.

But they won’t work on the crossover episode.

63 Kragar  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 3:20:41pm

re: #62 GeneJockey

But they won’t work on the crossover episode.

Would be a short episode. The Colonials would fail the purity tests by the Inquisition and be destroyed.

64 GeneJockey  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 3:21:51pm

re: #63 Kragar

Would be a short episode. The Colonials would fail the purity tests by the Inquisition and be destroyed.

I didn’t expect the Inquisition.

65 klys  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 3:22:31pm

re: #64 GeneJockey

I didn’t expect the Inquisition.

Nobody does.

66 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 3:22:41pm

re: #64 GeneJockey

I didn’t expect the Inquisition.

I didn’t inspect the exquisition, either!

67 GeneJockey  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 3:23:24pm

re: #65 klys

Nobody does.

So, their chief weapon is surprise?

68 klys  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 3:25:12pm

re: #67 GeneJockey

So, their chief weapon is surprise?

I’m surprised you even had to ask.

69 Justanotherhuman  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 3:28:19pm

Not that Republicans have done anything to help—on the contrary, they’ve tried to stop it how many times?

U.S. House Ways and Means panel sets Obamacare hearing

trust.org

“Other House panels, which are headed by Republicans, also are investigating the troubled Oct. 1 start of individuals’ ability to sign up for subsidized health insurance under the federal law.”

70 Backwoods_Sleuth  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 3:29:09pm

re: #58 Kragar

Battlestar Galactica meets Warhammer 40k, with a lot of spare bits

Image: 984320_10151643675525729_1173598053_n.jpg

nice

71 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 3:32:44pm

How much cash did GOP blow on the Shutdown, Dumbest Man On Teh Internets? How many Obamacare websites worth?

72 Targetpractice  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 3:35:22pm

re: #71 Vicious Babushka

How much cash did GOP blow on the Shutdown, Dumbest Man On Teh Internets? How many Obamacare websites worth?

[Embedded content]

Hey Dim Jim, how many days of operations in Iraq would that have paid for?

73 Kragar  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 3:37:03pm

re: #71 Vicious Babushka

How much cash did GOP blow on the Shutdown, Dumbest Man On Teh Internets? How many Obamacare websites worth?

[Embedded content]

74 Mattand  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 3:41:21pm

Hey, all, Stupid Question Time:

Is a function of the ACA that insurance providers can no longer cut you off after a certain debt ceiling is hit?

For example, years ago, a friend’s dad suffered a debilitating stroke. At about $250,000, the insurance company told him “Good luck” and kicked him off the plan.

Is that a thing of the past, or is just dependent on the particular carrier?

75 Backwoods_Sleuth  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 3:42:49pm

re: #74 Mattand

Hey, all, Stupid Question Time:

Is a function of the ACA that insurance providers can no longer cut you off after a certain debt ceiling is hit?

For example, years ago, a friend’s dad suffered a debilitating stroke. At about $250,000, the insurance company told him “Good luck” and kicked him off the plan.

Is that a thing of the past, or is just dependent on the particular carrier?

With ACA, that’s a thing of the past. No more caps.

76 Decatur Deb  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 3:43:06pm

re: #74 Mattand

Hey, all, Stupid Question Time:

Is a function of the ACA that insurance providers can no longer cut you off after a certain debt ceiling is hit?

For example, years ago, a friend’s dad suffered a debilitating stroke. At about $250,000, the insurance company told him “Good luck” and kicked him off the plan.

Is that a thing of the past, or is just dependent on the particular carrier?

Thing of the past.

77 Backwoods_Sleuth  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 3:43:59pm

re: #71 Vicious Babushka

How much cash did GOP blow on the Shutdown, Dumbest Man On Teh Internets? How many Obamacare websites worth?

[Embedded content]

gee…and how much did Booz Allen charge the government for Snowden’s expertise?

78 klys  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 3:45:10pm

re: #69 Justanotherhuman

Not that Republicans have done anything to help—on the contrary, they’ve tried to stop it how many times?

U.S. House Ways and Means panel sets Obamacare hearing

trust.org

“Other House panels, which are headed by Republicans, also are investigating the troubled Oct. 1 start of individuals’ ability to sign up for subsidized health insurance under the federal law.”

My shock and surprise…

…is nowhere to be found.

79 darthstar  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 3:45:50pm
80 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 3:46:12pm

re: #75 Backwoods_Sleuth

With ACA, that’s a thing of the past. No more caps.

Government interference strikes again. Everyone should be free to choose for themselves if they want caps or not.

/

81 Backwoods_Sleuth  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 3:47:03pm

re: #80 Sol Berdinowitz

Government interference strikes again. Everyone should be free to choose for themselves if they want caps or not.

/

Making the rest of us pay for those moochers who want no caps…

//

82 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 3:48:23pm
83 Shiplord Kirel  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 3:49:14pm

re: #80 Sol Berdinowitz

Government interference strikes again. Everyone should be free to choose for themselves if they want caps or not.

/

Of course I want a cap. How else could I discipline myself not to have strokes, heart attacks and major cancers whenever I feel like it? As wise men of radio keep reminding us, it is all about self-discipline.

84 Justanotherhuman  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 3:49:35pm

Haha, Renee Ellmers needed her paycheck during the shutdown, doncha know.

I’ll bet those teeth alone cost a fortune.

Rich NC congresswoman Renee Ellmers simply cannot afford to refuse her paycheck during shutdown

deathandtaxesmag.com

However, in her 2011 filing showing assets, it appears she may be heavily in debt (those teeth! that house!).

opensecrets.org

You’d think 2 people, with both more than likely earning 6 figures, would have something other than heavy debt to show for their efforts.

85 Mattand  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 3:50:05pm

re: #75 Backwoods_Sleuth

re: #76 Decatur Deb

Thanks, gang. Long story short, but the ACA is about to help me shave $60 off of my car insurance.

re: #80 Sol Berdinowitz

Government interference strikes again. Everyone should be free to choose for themselves if they want caps or not.

/

LOL! Sadly, there is probably some Tea Bagger out there saying that.

86 wrenchwench  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 3:50:30pm
87 Mattand  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 3:51:35pm

Also, extremely off topic:

Free OS upgrade to all of my Mac? YES, PLEASE!!!

That’s $20 that can go to something more productive, like my antique collection of Kurdish shoe horns.

Or airplane glue. Whatever.

88 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 3:52:36pm

re: #85 Mattand

LOL! Sadly, there is probably some Tea Bagger out there saying that.

The line between satire and reality in American politics has long since been erased. There is almost nothing you can say sarcastically that has not been said seriously.

89 missliberties  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 4:05:42pm

I smell a rat.

90 Stoatly  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 4:05:46pm

re: #86 wrenchwench

Amazed me when I learned it was written by Barry Gibb and Robin Gibb of the Bee Gees (for Otis Redding who died before he could record it)

91 Targetpractice  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 4:06:54pm

re: #89 missliberties

I smell a rat.

*sniffsniff*

Sorry, I forgot to shower this morning.

//

92 Justanotherhuman  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 4:10:11pm

It’s a fine line…

Greek Parliament axes funding for far right

usnews.com

But…

“It is actually in most European countries unlawful to do hate speech, incitement to violence, open racism and also denial of the Holocaust,” he said.

“During a meeting with Public Order Minister Nikos Dendias, the Council of Europe head also offered the support of the organization’s legal experts in seeking ways to deal with the Golden Dawn issue.”

The fatal stabbing of a Greek rap singer has been blamed on a Golden Dawn Party volunteer.

93 wrenchwench  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 4:14:29pm

re: #90 Stoatly

Amazed me when I learned it was written by Barry Gibb and Robin Gibb of the Bee Gees (for Otis Redding who died before he could record it)

That is amazing. Oh, wait, the BeeGees performed it too, right? But still. Would have been an Otis Redding hit for sure.

94 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 4:14:53pm

re: #79 darthstar

Image: 1385446_778781808817941_1560234272_n.jpg

That explains the lousy mood Sir Kay was always in.

95 klys  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 4:15:39pm

re: #84 Justanotherhuman

Haha, Renee Ellmers needed her paycheck during the shutdown, doncha know.

I’ll bet those teeth alone cost a fortune.

Rich NC congresswoman Renee Ellmers simply cannot afford to refuse her paycheck during shutdown

deathandtaxesmag.com

However, in her 2011 filing showing assets, it appears she may be heavily in debt (those teeth! that house!).

opensecrets.org

You’d think 2 people, with both more than likely earning 6 figures, would have something other than heavy debt to show for their efforts.

What’s more amazing to me is that the average net worth of House members that year was $6.5 million.

I won’t lie, my husband and I are doing pretty well (good salary, smart spending habits, and luck), but we’re not even close to that.

Honestly, if we were we’d be discussing retirement pretty seriously.

96 GeneJockey  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 4:21:54pm

re: #95 klys

What’s more amazing to me is that the average net worth of House members that year was $6.5 million.

I won’t lie, my husband and I are doing pretty well (good salary, smart spending habits, and luck), but we’re not even close to that.

Honestly, if we were we’d be discussing retirement pretty seriously.

Average meaning mean, or median? Could be one really rich guy, skewing the mean.

97 Bubblehead II  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 4:25:01pm

re: #50 dog philosopher

500 Million Lines of Code

not sure whether this will be the name of my next album or my next science fiction novel

Nah, it’s the Kernal for Skynet or maybe Colossus.

Evening Lizards.

98 klys  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 4:28:33pm

re: #96 GeneJockey

Average meaning mean, or median? Could be one really rich guy, skewing the mean.

Average meaning mean. I can’t give the median easily because it won’t let me download just the data for the House but for EVERYONE it was a much more reasonable ~$1 million.

The nice thing is the data is all available for download as a CSV so you can easily poke at it yourself.

ETA: The top is McCaul from TX, and then our favorite friend Issa. But then Polis from CO.

99 Justanotherhuman  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 4:30:00pm

re: #96 GeneJockey

Some are pretty rich…hundreds of millions rich.

opensecrets.org

100 piratedan  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 4:30:47pm

re: #97 Bubblehead II

Nah, it’s the Kernal for Skynet or maybe Colossus.

Evening Lizards.

“In time, you will come to Love Me” - Colossus

That film, had its moments……

101 GeneJockey  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 4:33:06pm

re: #99 Justanotherhuman

Some are pretty rich…hundreds of millions rich.

opensecrets.org

Whoa. All by themselves, McCaul and Issa add 1.2 Million to the mean wealth of members of Congress.

102 klys  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 4:34:08pm

re: #101 GeneJockey

Whoa. All by themselves, McCaul and Issa add 1.2 Million to the mean wealth of members of Congress.

Too bad there’s no chance we could convince Issa to retire. :/

103 Lidane  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 4:37:30pm
104 EPR-radar  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 4:38:31pm

re: #101 GeneJockey

Whoa. All by themselves, McCaul and Issa add 1.2 Million to the mean wealth of members of Congress.

Issa wan’t a crook for the hell of it. He was in it for the big bucks.

105 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 4:38:41pm

DERP

106 Varek Raith  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 4:39:40pm

Eh, just add a zip drive. It’ll be fixed in a heartbeat.
-Chuck Todd.

107 Backwoods_Sleuth  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 4:41:40pm

re: #105 Vicious Babushka

DERP

[Embedded content]

Keep telling that to your minions, Rafael.
Just stay the hell out of Kentucky.
kthxbai…

108 Bubblehead II  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 4:42:59pm

re: #106 Varek Raith

Eh, just add a zip drive. It’ll be fixed in a heartbeat.
-Chuck Todd.

Well sure it will, just as long as we can keep the “click of death” from occurring. //

109 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 4:43:50pm

DERP DERP

110 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 4:44:08pm

I have no idea what it is doing outside. It’s dark.

you?

111 piratedan  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 4:44:10pm

re: #108 Bubblehead II

Well sure it will, just as long as we can keep the “click of death” from occurring. //

hey, does this screen come in any other color than blue? /////

112 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 4:45:12pm

re: #102 klys

Too bad there’s no chance we could convince Issa to retire. :/

Seriously, if I had all that wealth, the last thing I would do is run for public office. I wouldn’t want or need the headache.

113 Justanotherhuman  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 4:45:31pm

re: #105 Vicious Babushka

This is the “packed house” for Cruz in TX.

twitter.com

I think there were more people going to see Gravity, though.

114 Varek Raith  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 4:46:05pm

re: #110 FemNaziBitch

I have no idea what it is doing outside. It’s dark.

you?

Monsters.
Take this sword.

115 wrenchwench  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 4:46:30pm

re: #110 FemNaziBitch

I have no idea what it is doing outside. It’s dark.

you?

I am dark inside.

116 Backwoods_Sleuth  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 4:46:54pm

re: #110 FemNaziBitch

I have no idea what it is doing outside. It’s dark.

you?

cold and dark…

117 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 4:47:55pm

re: #115 wrenchwench

I am dark inside.

Yeah, me. Very dark.

118 Justanotherhuman  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 4:49:36pm

re: #112 FemNaziBitch

Seriously, if I had all that wealth, the last thing I would do is run for public office. I wouldn’t want or need the headache.

That’s because you’re not power-hungry like Issa.

119 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 4:50:35pm

re: #118 Justanotherhuman

That’s because you’re not power-hungry like Issa.

True, I’d rather set-up some not-for-profit and walk away from it.

120 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 4:52:30pm

re: #113 Justanotherhuman

This is the “packed house” for Cruz in TX.

twitter.com

I think there were more people going to see Gravity, though.

They’re all so old and so white!

121 Bubblehead II  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 4:53:58pm

re: #111 piratedan

hey, does this screen come in any other color than blue? /////

Youtube Video

assets.amuniversal.com

122 Kragar  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 5:04:40pm

re: #114 Varek Raith

Monsters.
Take this sword.

Its dangerous to go alone.

123 GeneJockey  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 5:09:06pm

re: #115 wrenchwench

I am dark inside.

Not one of the Radium Girls, then?

124 Kragar  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 5:09:13pm

And now… to Skyrim!

Actually trying a Redguard warrior this time.

125 Bubblehead II  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 5:11:08pm

re: #112 FemNaziBitch

Seriously, if I had all that wealth, the last thing I would do is run for public office. I wouldn’t want or need the headache.

Then you aint playing the game. Do you actually think these people are interested in helping thier Constituents? Guess again. Most of them are in it for the money and power. Nothing more, nothing less.

Personally, If I had that wealth, I would be doing my best to take out those who support them. Destroy the base of their power and let their puppets flounder and sink.

126 Tim TeaBro  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 5:11:29pm
127 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 5:11:29pm

So I finished book 5 of GoT and BOOK SIX ISN’T PUBLISHED YET!

No one told me.

128 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 5:12:20pm

re: #125 Bubblehead II

Then you aint playing the game. Do you actually think these people are interested in helping thier Constituents? Guess again. Most of them are in it for the money and power. Nothing more, nothing less.

Personally, If I had that wealth, I would be doing my best to take out those who support them. Destroy the base of their power and let their puppets flounder and sink.

You are right. I am not playing the game.

The only way to win is not to play.

129 ProTARDISLiberal  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 5:14:28pm

re: #124 Kragar

Now maxing out sneak.

I just went back through the Thalmor Embassy.

Not a single Thalmor noticed the chronic problem of people dying in their sleep with a knife wound.

130 piratedan  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 5:15:16pm

re: #127 FemNaziBitch

So I finished book 5 of GoT and BOOK SIX ISN’T PUBLISHED YET!

No one told me.

you are number 12,345774 in the queue in waiting for book six, but remember that your longing is important to us, so please stand by and a representative will be with you shortly… ////

131 klys  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 5:17:13pm

re: #127 FemNaziBitch

So I finished book 5 of GoT and BOOK SIX ISN’T PUBLISHED YET!

No one told me.

You will now properly appreciate this:

Youtube Video

To be followed by this:

Youtube Video

(You cannot see me, but my seat was just off screen to the right, in the front row. Of course, because buses are difficult, I was just walking in as this started.)

132 Varek Raith  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 5:18:47pm

re: #129 ProTARDISLiberal

Now maxing out sneak.

I just went back through the Thalmor Embassy.

Not a single Thalmor noticed the chronic problem of people dying in their sleep with a knife wound.

Youtube Video

133 GeneJockey  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 5:19:16pm

re: #127 FemNaziBitch

So I finished book 5 of GoT and BOOK SIX ISN’T PUBLISHED YET!

No one told me.

I feel your pain.

134 ProTARDISLiberal  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 5:20:44pm

re: #132 Varek Raith

Archery is so strong that, if I can sneak attack someone with a bow, they drop. Unless they are very high level.

135 Kragar  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 5:24:22pm

re: #129 ProTARDISLiberal

Now maxing out sneak.

I just went back through the Thalmor Embassy.

Not a single Thalmor noticed the chronic problem of people dying in their sleep with a knife wound.

Sounds like my usual Khajit run thru.

This time, I’m running hack and slash.

136 Stanley Sea  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 5:28:38pm
137 Backwoods_Sleuth  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 5:29:37pm

re: #136 Stanley Sea

[Embedded content]

good grief…

138 wrenchwench  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 5:31:20pm

re: #136 Stanley Sea

[Embedded content]

Cancer of the ‘panel’?

139 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 5:32:29pm

bbl

140 Tigger2  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 5:36:11pm

re: #29 jaunte

Rep. Issa: White House ruined ObamaCare site

Time To Investigate!

Issa would really have egg on his face if that investigation turned up rightwingers were sabotaging the site.

141 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 5:36:42pm

Dumbest Man On Teh Internets
It’s the job of POTUS to beta-test every .gov website?

142 GeneJockey  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 5:37:43pm

re: #138 wrenchwench

Cancer of the ‘panel’?

Perhaps the panel fell on him.

143 GeneJockey  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 5:38:29pm

Or he was hit by a (death) panel van.

144 Lidane  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 5:38:33pm

My surprise, etc. —

145 GeneJockey  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 5:42:01pm

re: #144 Lidane

My surprise, etc. —

[Embedded content]

I suppose REAL Americans oppose racial and ethnic equality. That majority that supports equality? They’re not REAL.

146 Stanley Sea  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 5:44:52pm

That is fucked up.

147 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 5:49:23pm

re: #111 piratedan

hey, does this screen come in any other color than blue? /////

Heh. My screensaver is bsod - it simulates system failures from Windows 3.1, Windows 95, Windows NT, MS-DOS, AmigaDOS 1.3, Linux, SCO UNIX, BSD UNIX, HPUX, Solaris, Tru64, VMS, HVX/GCOS6, IBM OS/390, MacOS (MacsBug, Bomb, Sad Mac, and OSX), Atari ST, Apple ][+, and NCD X Terminals. Oh, and GLaDOS for you Portal fans ;) It has confused my son on more than one occasion when he sees a panic screen up but my music is still playing :)

148 dog philosopher  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 5:49:51pm

re: #144 Lidane

My surprise, etc. —

By 2043, Census projections show that non-Hispanic whites will become a minority of our population. By 2050, they will be only 47 percent of the U.S. population, with communities of color combining to form a solid 53 percent majority. Hispanics will make up 28 percent of the population, up from 16 percent in 2010, and African Americans will make up 13 percent, about 1 percentage point higher than their level in 2010. Asians will make up 7 percent, up from 5 percent in 2010, and another 0.7 percent will be made up of American Indian/Alaska Natives, unchanged from their 2010 levels. Finally, multiracial individuals should double in size, from their current 2 percent of the population to 4 percent by 2050.

basically all this predicts is that there will be 12% more hispanics. it only predicts 1% more african americans, 2% more asians, and 2% more persons of mixed race

but predictions are predictions, not fact

i predict that by 2043 they will think that all of us back in 2013 were out of our minds to be pre-occupied with the issues that dominate the news these days

149 dog philosopher  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 5:51:32pm

re: #145 GeneJockey

I suppose REAL Americans oppose racial and ethnic equality. That majority that supports equality? They’re not REAL.

anyway if they ever do become a minority, i’m sure most of them will deny it - like the sunnis in iraq under saddam

150 Charles Johnson  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 5:52:52pm

New Safari 7 in Mac OS Mavericks is fast.

151 wrenchwench  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 5:55:15pm

re: #150 Charles Johnson

New Safari 7 in Mac OS Mavericks is fast.

[Embedded content]

Venomous Crustacean: band name or cocktail?

152 GeneJockey  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 5:55:51pm

re: #149 dog philosopher

anyway if they ever do become a minority, i’m sure most of them will deny it - like the sunnis in iraq under saddam

I think that’s what’s behind the ‘Real American’ and ‘Real America’ talk - the idea that, even though most Americans live in a metro area, and/or near one coast or the other, that the folks who live in the middle, and/or out in the sticks are the REAL Americans.

You don’t have to be white to be a REAL American, though. But it helps, and you do have to believe what REAL Americans believe.

153 aagcobb  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 5:58:39pm

re: #151 wrenchwench

Venomous Crustacean: band name or cocktail?

Why not both!

154 GeneJockey  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 5:58:50pm

I meant to add that by defining ‘Real Americans’, and the obvious opposite, they don’t have to feel like they should accept the opinions and wishes of the majority, since the majority aren’t the Real Americans. That’s why it’s okay to disenfranchise them, and why it would be okay to screw with the Electoral College to wildly skew the EC vote, because the Real Americans would be in control, as God Himself ordained.

155 GeneJockey  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 5:59:19pm

re: #153 aagcobb

Why not both!

I think there’s already a Crab Cocktail.
///

156 dog philosopher  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 6:00:00pm

re: #152 GeneJockey

I think that’s what’s behind the ‘Real American’ and ‘Real America’ talk - the idea that, even though most Americans live in a metro area, and/or near one coast or the other, that the folks who live in the middle, and/or out in the sticks are the REAL Americans.

You don’t have to be white to be a REAL American, though. But it helps, and you do have to believe what REAL Americans believe.

i grew up in new york city, and i’ve checked with my friends who also grew up there

we were all surprised after 9/11 to find out that we had become “real americans” again, after decades of hearing how new yorkers weren’t real americans

i mean, we really expected all of those self-appointed real americans to say “who cares, the terrorists only bombed that buncha communists, hippies, elitists, and ethnics back in that hellhole called new york city”

157 Charles Johnson  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 6:00:14pm

We were discussing this yesterday - the latest version of Safari uses the same model as Chrome (because like Chrome, it’s based on the Webkit open source project) - it spawns a new process for each new window or tab. This should really help with stability. And the new Web Inspector is freakin’ awesome.

158 dog philosopher  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 6:00:43pm

re: #153 aagcobb

Why not both!

i want a band that comes with cocktails

159 Aqua Obama  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 6:01:08pm

Why did a Canadian company get the contract, I wonder. Anyway, the state exchanges seem to be working alright, and that’s the linchpin of the entire program.

160 GeneJockey  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 6:01:25pm

re: #156 dog philosopher

i grew up in new york city, and i’ve checked with my friends who also grew up there

we were all surprised after 9/11 to find out that we had become “real americans” again, after decades of hearing how new yorkers weren’t real americans

i mean, we really expected all of those self-appointed real americans to say “who cares, the terrorists only bombed that buncha communists, hippies, elitists, and ethnics back in that hellhole called new york city”

Yeah, but you guys gave up the right to be Real Americans when you let the MOOOZlims build the Victory Mosque on Holy Ground.
//

161 GeneJockey  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 6:02:43pm

re: #159 Aqua Obama

Why did a Canadian company get the contract, I wonder. Anyway, the state exchanges seem to be working alright, and that’s the linchpin of the entire program.

Unless you live in a state where the GOP-controlled government cares less about you than they do sticking it to Obama.

162 dog philosopher  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 6:03:02pm

re: #160 GeneJockey

Yeah, but you guys gave up the right to be Real Americans when you let the MOOOZlims build the Victory Mosque on Holy Ground.
//

hey hey hey it wuzn’t me it wuz joey from 98th st!

163 GeneJockey  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 6:03:50pm

re: #162 dog philosopher

hey hey hey it wuzn’t me it wuz joey from 98th st!

I KNEW it! That summbitch!

164 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 6:04:44pm

So tomorrow is the 30th anniversary of the Beirut bombings that killed 241 U.S. servicemen and 58 French paratroopers of the international peacekeeping force.

I wonder how many of those shrieking about Benghazi or who worship St. Ronald of the Raygun will be tweeting about _that_?

165 wrenchwench  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 6:05:41pm

We’re under attack!

Later, lizards.

166 Stanley Sea  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 6:19:22pm

Missed the walking dead Sunday nite. Watching now.

Did I hear the special effects guy became the show runner this season? If yes, it shows. Not going to make the hamburger as planned for dinner.

167 wheat-dogghazi  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 6:24:00pm

Oh, I haz a sad. I got my first Twitter blocking, while I was asleep. Seems some people don’t like my gentle reminders about reality.

And I am apparently a dickwad, Cargo class grade. This from a guy who says he’s ready to fight for freedom.

Yawn.

168 sagehen  Tue, Oct 22, 2013 9:55:13pm

re: #166 Stanley Sea

Missed the walking dead Sunday nite. Watching now.

Did I hear the special effects guy became the show runner this season? If yes, it shows. Not going to make the hamburger as planned for dinner.

Or spaghetti.


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