US Officials: Phone Records Given to NSA by European Intelligence Services

Major Greenwald fail
World • Views: 35,553

Today we learn that the latest stories on NSA collection of phone records in France and Spain are, well, completely bogus. The truth is exactly the opposite of the media reports and the hype from Glenn Greenwald: Phone Records Given to NSA by European Intelligence, Officials Say.

WASHINGTON — Leaked U.S. documents appearing to show that the National Security Agency collected data on tens of millions of European phone records, an issue that has sparked outrage among U.S. allies, actually represented data handed over to the NSA by European intelligence services as part of joint operations, U.S. officials said Tuesday.

The claim refutes reports in leading French and Spanish newspapers suggesting that the NSA had vacuumed up French and Spanish telephone records without the knowledge of those governments. U.S. officials now say that the NSA didn’t collect the data — the intelligence services of those countries did.

Exactly how the telephone records were used is unclear, but U.S. officials who spoke on condition of anonymity in order to discuss classified programs portrayed the operation as related to counter-terrorism efforts and force protection in Afghanistan.

U.S. intelligence officials had disputed the newspaper stories, but had avoided citing the complicity of European spy agencies until now because of diplomatic sensitivities about exposing the role of foreign intelligence partners.

Greenwald was boasting about this story two days ago:

And he’s continuing to defend it today:

The document to which Greenwald is linking does not support his claims that the NSA collected this data; it’s about a database management tool called “Boundless Informant,” and it says nothing about where the data comes from.

A major screw-up by Glenn Greenwald. He misinterpreted the information in Snowden’s stolen documents and jumped to incorrect conclusions — not for the first time, but this may be the most egregious case of Greenwald’s malfeasance yet.

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74 comments
1 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Oct 29, 2013 12:08:48pm

Glenn will never admit he fucked up because HE’S A JOURNALIST DOING JOURNALISM!!!!!!1!!!11!!111!

2 Justanotherhuman  Tue, Oct 29, 2013 12:10:07pm

Can you ever depend on anything taken out of context as those files and doc were? A document doesn’t give the entire picture of what’s happening, but excitement (and the “gotcha!” moment) won over in the end for Snowden & Greenwald.

3 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Oct 29, 2013 12:10:08pm

If “publishing any bunch of crap that falls into your hands without fact-checking or any of that bourgeois shit” is what he means by “JOURNALISM!!!!!11!!111!!!”

4 Justanotherhuman  Tue, Oct 29, 2013 12:11:14pm

re: #1 Vicious Babushka

Glenn will never admit he fucked up because HE’S A JOURNALIST DOING JOURNALISM!!!!!!1!!!11!!111!

Doing “The journalism”, doncha know.

5 Kragar  Tue, Oct 29, 2013 12:11:56pm

I expect Greenwald to issue an immediate retraction and apologize at once.

Youtube Video

6 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Oct 29, 2013 12:12:08pm

re: #4 Justanotherhuman

Doing “The journalism”, doncha know.

[Dudebro]ITZ TEH JOURNALIZM AND DONT U FORGET IT!!!1!11!!!!!!![/Dudebro]

7 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Oct 29, 2013 12:12:11pm

If you want to enjoy some sort of priveleged status as a journalist, you are expected to uphold some standards of accuracy. Otherwise you are no different than every idiot out there with a blogsite or a twitter account.

8 thedopefishlives  Tue, Oct 29, 2013 12:12:56pm

re: #7 Sol Berdinowitz

If you want to enjoy some sort of priveleged status as a journalist, you are expected to uphold some standards of accuracy. Otherwise you are no different than every idiot out there with a blogsite or a twitter account.

HAY, BLOGGERZ ARE JOURNALISTS TOO!

9 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Oct 29, 2013 12:13:25pm

re: #7 Sol Berdinowitz

If you want to enjoy some sort of priveleged status as a journalist, you are expected to uphold some standards of accuracy. Otherwise you are no different than every idiot out there with a blogsite or a twitter account.

Except that most of them do not claim to be journalists.

10 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Oct 29, 2013 12:13:41pm

McAuliffe wins in a landslide: PRICELESS

11 lawhawk  Tue, Oct 29, 2013 12:13:49pm

This is my shocked face (and I’m going to have to get a new one since the current one is being worn out by all of Greenwald’s screwups).

It’s been known for a good long time that the US and its allies have been sharing massive amounts of intel. Some of it is done in a way to circumvent civil liberties laws in the countries involved, but all of it is legal under the law.

Say the US and UK are involved. The UK uses its tech means to get data on suspicious* individuals in the US. The US uses its tech means to get data on suspicious individuals in the UK. Both countries share that data with each other, and they’re able to get a better picture of who’s suspicious. The US doesn’t directly collect the information, but is given that data from the UK - and there’s methods for handling the data as per the FISA and other federal law.

*by suspicious I’m including potential terrorists, individuals engaging in espionage, and other acts of subterfuge or might pose threats to the country(ies) involved.

All of this has been done for years - and it has been reported on previously too. Years ago in fact. I’d have to dig through the results, but I think Charles covered this about 5 years ago. May have come out around the same time as the revelation about the SWIFT program.

12 Internet Tough Guy  Tue, Oct 29, 2013 12:13:51pm

The future of journalism will be an endless denial of error.

13 erik_t  Tue, Oct 29, 2013 12:14:16pm

Aforementioned European intelligence services will likely be more circumspect about what they share with the United States, now that they have egg on their face here. Some of that information that we won’t get in the future could be, you know, kind of a big deal.

Harming the United States of America for personal and political gain: not just for Ted Cruz anymore.

14 Kragar  Tue, Oct 29, 2013 12:15:05pm

Badly dubbed Greenwald

“So, you think your journalism is pretty good, eh? Well… FIGHT ME!”

Youtube Video

15 Bulworth  Tue, Oct 29, 2013 12:15:59pm
NSA collected data on 60 million calls in Spain in one month

I don’t know, 6 calls might worry me, but 60 million zillions? //

16 thedopefishlives  Tue, Oct 29, 2013 12:16:10pm

re: #13 erik_t

Harming the United States of America for personal and political gain: not just for Ted Cruz anymore.

It seems to be kind of the in thing to do. I wonder when patriotism devolved from “AMERICA FUCK YEAH” to “AMERICA FUCK YOU”.

17 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Oct 29, 2013 12:18:47pm

Oh I don’t know, how about THE CEO’S OF AETNA & UHC OUT OF THEIR 8-FIGURE SALARIES?

18 ericblair  Tue, Oct 29, 2013 12:21:42pm

re: #10 Vicious Babushka

McAuliffe wins in a landslide: PRICELESS

[Embedded content]

Note to other Virginia-based lizards: this is no excuse to sit on your azz next week so GO VOTE!

19 Charles Johnson  Tue, Oct 29, 2013 12:22:37pm
20 Bulworth  Tue, Oct 29, 2013 12:24:56pm

re: #17 Vicious Babushka


Why does Steve think Obamacare is set up like a Trust Fund? Derp.

But to best answer the question, Steve, the government will be on the hook, so you better get to work making sure your healthy and eligible constituents enroll, rather than encouraging them and others to opt out.

21 Bulworth  Tue, Oct 29, 2013 12:26:02pm

re: #10 Vicious Babushka

I hope Prudence and her followers send lots more money. Let it burn.

22 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Oct 29, 2013 12:26:37pm

*HEADDESK*

23 Lidane  Tue, Oct 29, 2013 12:27:15pm

So once again we see that just dumping documents or looking at single snapshots without having the proper context means getting the facts entirely wrong.

Image: history.jpg

24 Sol Berdinowitz  Tue, Oct 29, 2013 12:27:45pm

re: #20 Bulworth

Why does Steve think Obamacare is set up like a Trust Fund? Derp.

But to best answer the question, Steve, the government will be on the hook, so you better get to work making sure your healthy and eligible constituents enroll, rather than encouraging them and others to opt out.

They are ready to shut down the entire government over ACA…

25 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Oct 29, 2013 12:28:16pm

re: #23 Lidane

So once again we see that just dumping documents or looking at single snapshots without having the proper context means getting the facts entirely wrong.

Image: history.jpg

[Dudebro]GLENN IS DOING JOURNALISM U JUST DON’T UNDERSTANED UR A DROOLING OBAMABOT!!!!!!!11!!!![/Dudebro]

26 Internet Tough Guy  Tue, Oct 29, 2013 12:30:08pm

re: #22 Vicious Babushka

He really is a soulless monster.

Luckily, he’s so incompetent he won’t ever have access to the nuclear arsenal, but still….

27 Justanotherhuman  Tue, Oct 29, 2013 12:30:33pm

What I want to know is—who is Greenwald working for, other than himself? Obviously even Wikileaks is limited by its own fundraising efforts, notwithstanding any large individual contributors.

Even as massive as his ego is, it doesn’t pay all those bills.

28 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Oct 29, 2013 12:33:44pm

re: #27 Justanotherhuman

What I want to know is—who is Greenwald working for, other than himself? Obviously even Wikileaks is limited by its own fundraising efforts, notwithstanding any large individual contributors.

Even as massive as his ego is, it doesn’t pay all those bills.

The highest bidder.

29 Lidane  Tue, Oct 29, 2013 12:34:04pm

re: #22 Vicious Babushka

Stay classy, Ted.

30 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Oct 29, 2013 12:35:12pm
31 Kragar  Tue, Oct 29, 2013 12:36:39pm

My brother’s interview with Harrison Ford has hit the intertubes.

32 ProTARDISLiberal  Tue, Oct 29, 2013 12:37:24pm

re: #10 Vicious Babushka

I have never seen a real-life person fall into the uncanny valley.

But Cooch here did.

33 geoffm33  Tue, Oct 29, 2013 12:37:32pm

re: #20 Bulworth

Why does Steve think Obamacare is set up like a Trust Fund? Derp.

But to best answer the question, Steve, the government will be on the hook, so you better get to work making sure your healthy and eligible constituents enroll, rather than encouraging them and others to opt out. to roll the dice, gambling their families future in the process.

FTFY

34 ProTARDISLiberal  Tue, Oct 29, 2013 12:38:11pm

re: #31 Kragar

Linky plz.

35 Kragar  Tue, Oct 29, 2013 12:39:09pm
36 leftynyc  Tue, Oct 29, 2013 12:39:59pm

OT - but I almost fell off my chair:

mediaite.com

It is a strange day, indeed, that sees an ultra-conservative blog like Brent Bozell’s Newsbusters giving fairer treatment to a story about Obamacare than the mainstream media, but that’s where the likes of CNN, CBS News, NBC News, and ABC News have taken us. While the supposedly “objective” news media churn out misleading, false, and deliberately incomplete reports on the health care law, Newsbusters’ Tom Blumer concedes an important facet of the current anti-Obamacare narrative, and makes his (wrong) argument on honestly subjective terms.

37 Kragar  Tue, Oct 29, 2013 12:41:11pm

We’ve Always Been At War with DudeBronia

New poll finds that 22% of Americans are libertarian or “lean” libertarian. The poll also found that “libertarians tend to be non-Hispanic white, young and male.”

38 Justanotherhuman  Tue, Oct 29, 2013 12:43:58pm

re: #37 Kragar

We’ve Always Been At War with DudeBronia

The same ones who will turn into middle aged teabaggers in the future, no doubt.

39 Kragar  Tue, Oct 29, 2013 12:44:54pm

Democratic Congressman Blows Up At GOP During Obamacare Hearing: ‘Are You Really Serious?’

Rep. Bill Pascrell (D-NJ) slammed Republicans for failing to support the Affordable Care Act once it became law, challenging them to go back to their districts and tell their constituents that they’ll be taking away their coverage.

“What are you going to do about the approximately 17 million children with preexisting conditions who can no longer be denied health insurance coverage,” Parscrell asked the GOP during a House hearing on Obamacare. Standing up and pointing his finger at the other side of the aisle, he continued, “We want to go back and want to say you are no longer covered any longer — are you going to tell the parents of those kids?”

Rep. Tim Griffin (R-AR) tried to answer that question, highlighting GOP proposals to cover individuals with pre-existing condition. The reply sparked even greater outrage from Parscrell:

40 Teukka  Tue, Oct 29, 2013 12:45:57pm

Maybe a bit off on a tangent or even OT, but why is my hunch that this Greenwald/Snowden stuff is not about whistle-blowing or even stroking their egos, but damaging United States intelligence capabilites getting stronger?

I would like to believe Greenwald is just so busy mindlessly stroking his own ego he doesn’t realize what he’s doing, but at the same time, the question nags in the back of my head: What if he knows exactly what he’s doing?

I mean, this latest Greenwald stunt will put (at least) a (temporary) spanner in the works when it comes to international co-operation when it comes to intelligence. And where such intelligence sharing is most important, is counter-terrorism and combating international organized crime.

41 wrenchwench  Tue, Oct 29, 2013 12:46:41pm

re: #31 Kragar

My brother’s interview with Harrison Ford has hit the intertubes.

You must be so proud jealous proud proud jealous proud.

42 Bulworth  Tue, Oct 29, 2013 12:47:01pm

re: #39 Kragar

Rep. Tim Griffin (R-AR) tried to answer that question, highlighting GOP proposals to cover individuals with pre-existing condition.

Wait, medical savings accounts, right? First you save a bunch of money, for however long it takes, to buy an insurance policy, that may or may not cover your condition. OK. FREEDUMB. //

43 Justanotherhuman  Tue, Oct 29, 2013 12:47:24pm

re: #37 Kragar

We’ve Always Been At War with DudeBronia

Haha, a commenter linked this: 24 types of libertarians

Image: types_of_libertarian1.png

44 Bulworth  Tue, Oct 29, 2013 12:48:12pm

re: #39 Kragar

Rep. Tim Griffin (R-AR) tried to answer that question, highlighting GOP proposals to cover individuals with pre-existing condition.

Did the GOP pass this proposal when they controlled congress and the presidency?

45 Kragar  Tue, Oct 29, 2013 12:48:42pm

re: #41 wrenchwench

You must be so proud jealous proud proud jealous proud.

I believe my exact words when I heard he landed the interview were “Congratulations Asshole.”

He almost didn’t get it, but he asked they take a look at his work and they called him back a few hours later and told him he was in.

46 philosophus invidius  Tue, Oct 29, 2013 12:50:11pm

...

47 Decatur Deb  Tue, Oct 29, 2013 12:54:02pm

re: #35 Kragar


Ender’s Game: Extended Harrison Ford Interview

The ” horrors of pragmatism”. A problem the rw/lw nutjobs never face.

48 BusyMonster  Tue, Oct 29, 2013 12:55:35pm

re: #42 Bulworth

Wait, medical savings accounts, right? First you save a bunch of money, for however long it takes, to buy an insurance policy, that may or may not cover your condition. OK. FREEDUMB. //

This year my employer took away our FSA accounts (which we could bank up to $3k available immediately) and instituted a $3-$9k donut hole, up front, and gave us an HSA to which we could gradually contribute.

The CEO, in a classic display of how highly-paid people aren’t that goddamn smart or careful at all, failed to apprehend that he was putting all his employees in a fucking hole at the beginning of the year, since we would live life as the uninsured until we’d shelled out $3k, which we would have had in our flex-spending accounts until we were forced to use HSAs instead.

I know this because I know the fly on the wall who watched it go down. Arrogant (STUPID) CEO kept insisting that everyone around him was wrong, and that it wouldn’t be a problem. Because of course if Arrogant (STUPID) CEO was wrong, that meant several tens of thousands of employees would start the new year in a several-thousand-dollar hole of his making. Which was absolutely true. In this industry (health) there are plenty of jobs to move around so arrogant (STUPID) CEO managed to drive off some talented folks right in the middle of a crisis, created by his own arrogant stupidity.

Long story short, nobody is going to go for a fucking HSA account in place of actual insurance. You’d have to be as fucking arrogant and stupid as a CEO to think that kind of thing works in the real world.

49 Kragar  Tue, Oct 29, 2013 12:56:04pm

E.W. Jackson: God Will Stop Blessing Military Because of Gay Rights

Jackson, who has made a career out of making extreme anti-gay statements, warned: “How in the world can we expect our military to be blessed by the hand of almighty God if we allow our military to become the equivalent of Sodom and Gomorrah? God is not pleased.”

Yeah, if God’s blessing is removed, they might end up fighting unnecessary battles around the globe with no clear mission objectives for years on end.

Oh wait…

50 Justanotherhuman  Tue, Oct 29, 2013 12:56:18pm

I’m sorry, but this is really creepy.

Los Altos Turns Steve Jobs’ Childhood Home Into Historical Site

nbcbayarea.com

51 Lidane  Tue, Oct 29, 2013 12:59:24pm

re: #49 Kragar

E.W. Jackson: God Will Stop Blessing Military Because of Gay Rights

That’s right out of the Westboro Baptist playbook. It’s why they picket military funerals.

52 Backwoods_Sleuth  Tue, Oct 29, 2013 1:00:38pm

re: #44 Bulworth

Did the GOP pass this proposal when they controlled congress and the presidency?

It’s actually a useless proposal. Just another high-risk pool where, I suspect, premiums would be too high for most regular folks.

53 Tigger2  Tue, Oct 29, 2013 1:00:58pm

I think we are looking at a future Governor of North Carolina.
Awesome 12 yr old takes on the NC Gov and the voting laws.


Youtube Video

54 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Oct 29, 2013 1:01:52pm

Who knew there were so many stupid MD’s who don’t even know what “Obamacare” is? That it’s just HELLO! the same insurance policies they’ve been accepting ALL ALONG.

Or did the NY Post just make up a bunch of stupid shit?

55 dog philosopher  Tue, Oct 29, 2013 1:02:47pm

re: #37 Kragar

We’ve Always Been At War with DudeBronia

New poll finds that 22% of Americans are libertarian or “lean” libertarian. The poll also found that “libertarians tend to be non-Hispanic white, young and male.”

the poll says 62% are under 50

that doesn’t exactly translate directly into “young”

56 Backwoods_Sleuth  Tue, Oct 29, 2013 1:02:56pm

re: #54 Vicious Babushka

Who knew there were so many stupid MD’s who don’t even know what “Obamacare” is? That it’s just HELLO! the same insurance policies they’ve been accepting ALL ALONG.

Or did the NY Post just make up a bunch of stupid shit?

NY Post make up a bunch of stupid shit?
I’m shocked. SHOCKED, I say!

57 dog philosopher  Tue, Oct 29, 2013 1:03:50pm

re: #39 Kragar

Democratic Congressman Blows Up At GOP During Obamacare Hearing: ‘Are You Really Serious?’

GOP proposals to cover individuals with pre-existing condition

the gop is a pre-existing condition

58 Bulworth  Tue, Oct 29, 2013 1:04:17pm

re: #54 Vicious Babushka

That’s some really terrible derp.

59 Lidane  Tue, Oct 29, 2013 1:04:18pm
60 geoffm33  Tue, Oct 29, 2013 1:08:42pm

re: #54 Vicious Babushka

Who knew there were so many stupid MD’s who don’t even know what “Obamacare” is? That it’s just HELLO! the same insurance policies they’ve been accepting ALL ALONG.

Or did the NY Post just make up a bunch of stupid shit?

[Embedded content]

What the fuckity fuck is that crap sandwich? Best quote (at the end mind you):

“Doctors complained they’ve gotten the shaft for years even before ObamaCare.

I get screwed from insurance companies already. I refuse to get screwed any longer,” one doctor said.

LOL

61 lawhawk  Tue, Oct 29, 2013 1:10:43pm

re: #54 Vicious Babushka

There’s no such thing as Obamacare insurance.

It’s Aetna, Humana, BC/BS of NY, Anthem, etc.

It’s the same policies essentially being provided already. Some doctors may opt out of seeing new patients, but that’s something they’ve been doing for years.

And it’s rather odd that the MSSNY wouldn’t have the actual poll up on their site - and instead refer to the NYP story interviewing their guy Dr. Sam Unterricht.

It looks like one heck of a spin job to say the least.

62 Weet  Tue, Oct 29, 2013 1:11:29pm

I enjoyed this, and thought I would share it.
Hayajan is an Arabic alternative rock band.
Hayajan - Ya 7weneh

63 dog philosopher  Tue, Oct 29, 2013 1:12:31pm
64 geoffm33  Tue, Oct 29, 2013 1:12:56pm

re: #61 lawhawk

There’s no such thing as Obamacare insurance.

It’s Aetna, Humana, BC/BS of NY, Anthem, etc.

It’s the same policies essentially being provided already. Some doctors may opt out of seeing new patients, but that’s something they’ve been doing for years.

And it’s rather odd that the MSSNY wouldn’t have the actual poll up on their site - and instead refer to the NYP story interviewing their guy Dr. Sam Unterricht.

It looks like one heck of a spin job to say the least.

Can a doctor even know if the plan was generated though an exchange? Or does it look identical to traditional/pre-exchange plans?

65 Decatur Deb  Tue, Oct 29, 2013 1:27:16pm

re: #53 Tigger2

I think we are looking at a future Governor of North Carolina.
Awesome 12 yr old takes on the NC Gov and the voting laws.

[Embedded content]

Get that kid some freakn’ pink running shoes, and she’s gone.

Keep the hat.

66 Decatur Deb  Tue, Oct 29, 2013 1:30:26pm

re: #65 Decatur Deb

(Move that to a page or to the fresh thread.)

67 Bulworth  Tue, Oct 29, 2013 1:39:34pm

re: #61 lawhawk

There’s no such thing as Obamacare insurance.

It’s Aetna, Humana, BC/BS of NY, Anthem, etc.

Damn, another phony Obamacare meme obliterated. //

68 teresa  Tue, Oct 29, 2013 3:05:45pm

As someone who does predictive analysis for a living it is easy to understand that most people don’t really understand data, where it comes from, why it is collected and what it is used for. I am not shocked that Greenwald is basically a noob trying to pass himself off as an expert. Does he realize all data peeps use these kinds of tools for predictive analytics daily?

Ugh, the guy is just a grifter.

69 wrenchwench  Tue, Oct 29, 2013 3:10:56pm

re: #62 Weet

I enjoyed this, and thought I would share it.
Hayajan is an Arabic alternative rock band.
Hayajan - Ya 7weneh

That was great!

70 JamesRyanBoston  Wed, Oct 30, 2013 1:04:54pm

Am I missing something here? Isn’t Boundless Informant a program owned by the NSA - who else would have access to this? And, if that is the case, why isn’t it a reasonable assumption that NSA is the consumer? Why is Greenwald wrong in making that assumption?

71 wrenchwench  Wed, Oct 30, 2013 1:08:07pm

re: #70 JamesRyanBoston

Greetings, hatchling.

72 Backwoods_Sleuth  Wed, Oct 30, 2013 1:08:11pm

re: #70 JamesRyanBoston

Am I missing something here? Isn’t Boundless Informant a program owned by the NSA - who else would have access to this? And, if that is the case, why isn’t it a reasonable assumption that NSA is the consumer? Why is Greenwald wrong in making that assumption?

Maybe because Boundless Informant isn’t collecting anything.
GG is blatantly wrong.

73 klys  Wed, Oct 30, 2013 1:08:15pm

re: #70 JamesRyanBoston

Am I missing something here? Isn’t Boundless Informant a program owned by the NSA - who else would have access to this? And, if that is the case, why isn’t it a reasonable assumption that NSA is the consumer? Why is Greenwald wrong in making that assumption?

Because there is a difference between saying “the NSA collected the data” and “the NSA was provided the data by foreign intelligence services.”

This has nothing at all to do with what the NSA does or does not do with the information.

74 Weet  Wed, Oct 30, 2013 1:31:38pm

re: #70 JamesRyanBoston

Am I missing something here? Isn’t Boundless Informant a program owned by the NSA - who else would have access to this? And, if that is the case, why isn’t it a reasonable assumption that NSA is the consumer? Why is Greenwald wrong in making that assumption?

Greenwald has maintained that the USA is out grabbing up the world’s data for nefarious purposes. Instead, it turns out that the data for this is supplied by our allies, and that there is obviously an allied agreement using this data for anti-terrorism purposes. Greenwald has stated outright that the NSA is not working against terrorism, but it hell bent on destroying privacy. He has made many other completely false claims during the duration of this saga.


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