Remember Lavabit, the “Secure Email” Service That Shut Down? It Was Totally Insecure.

“The basic definition of snake oil”
Technology • Views: 25,230

Remember Lavabit, the “secure email” service that was closed down by its owner Ladar Levison, ostensibly to avoid complying with a government request to access their “secure emails?” Specifically, emails from one of their most famous clients, Edward Snowden?

Something that always bothered me about the story: Lavabit claimed on their home page (see screenshot above) that their system was designed so that even their administrators couldn’t read users’ emails. I assumed this meant they were using some kind of public/private key scheme to encrypt emails, so that they would be encrypted while on Lavabit’s servers in a form that could not be decrypted even by Lavabit.

So how then could the government read those emails without the private keys of each user? Well, it turns out that Lavabit’s claim they couldn’t read emails simply wasn’t true. Their basic design was not secure at all, as cryptographer Moxie Marlinspike explains: Op-Ed: Lavabit’s Primary Security Claim Wasn’t Actually True.

If, as Lavabit said, it wasn’t capable of reading its users’ e-mails, how could it have been in a position to provide those plaintext e-mails to the US government?

Unfortunately, Lavabit’s primary security claim wasn’t actually true. As Ladar himself explained in this blog post, the system consisted of four basic steps:

  1. At account creation time, the user selected a login passphrase and transmitted it to the server.
  2. The server generated a keypair for that user, encrypted the private key with the login passphrase the user had selected, and stored it on the server.
  3. For every incoming e-mail the user received, the server would encrypt it with the user’s public key, and store it on the server.
  4. When the user wanted to retrieve an e-mail, they would transmit their password to the server, which would avert its eyes from the plaintext encryption password it had just received, use it to decrypt the private key (averting its eyes), use the private key to decrypt the e-mail (again averting its eyes), and transmit the plaintext e-mail to the user (averting its eyes one last time).

Unlike the design of most secure servers, which are ciphertext in and ciphertext out, this is the inverse: plaintext in and plaintext out. The server stores your password for authentication, uses that same password for an encryption key, and promises not to look at either the incoming plaintext, the password itself, or the outgoing plaintext.

The ciphertext, key, and password are all stored on the server using a mechanism that is solely within the server’s control and which the client has no ability to verify. There is no way to ever prove or disprove whether any encryption was ever happening at all. Whether it was or not makes little difference.

So the claim on Lavabit’s home page that they couldn’t read stored emails was simply false. The promise of security they made to their users was a lie. They promised not to read the emails, but breaking that promise would have been trivially easy with the way their system was built — and that’s why the feds wanted access.

It’s not clear whether the Lavabit crew consciously understood the system’s shortcomings and chose to misrepresent them, or if it really believed it built something based on can’t rather than won’t. One way or the other, in the security world, a product that uses the language of cryptography to fundamentally misrepresent its capabilities is the basic definition of snake oil.

Yep. And it raises the issue of whether Lavabit’s owner is telling the truth about the real reasons for shutting down his business, as well.

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145 comments
1 Kragar  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 12:27:25pm

I suspect he shut down so as to hide what he was doing from his customers.

2 lawhawk  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 12:29:45pm

How could he have fooled so many people who thought that he was providing a secure setup? And is he now going to be looking at lawsuits for fraud and misrepresentation on top of whatever other legal issues he’s got?

On its face, it appears that they were a modern day version of PT Barnum - willingly parting people from their money who thought they were getting something they weren’t being provided.

3 Targetpractice  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 12:30:11pm

I’m shocked, SHOCKED to find that gambling is going on in here.

4 Decatur Deb  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 12:30:32pm

What could be worse than planning your crime/love affair/revolution on an insecure system?

Planning your crime/love affair/revolution on a system you think is secure.

5 Kragar  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 12:30:59pm
6 lawhawk  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 12:32:39pm

re: #5 Kragar

Not enough conservatives voting for him. If we only had more of those… /

Seriously though, conservativism can only be failed. If only they had true believers, they’d win.

Kinda like libertarians.

7 wrenchwench  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 12:32:55pm

Dudebros fleecing dudebros.

Sad.

Kinda.

Or not.

8 Targetpractice  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 12:33:07pm

But hey, Lavabit’s become a hero to dudebros and now they’re trying to con the big boys:

Lavabit And Silent Circle Join Forces To Make All Email Surveillance-Proof

In recent months, Lavabit, based in Texas, and Silent Circle, based in Washington, D.C., both shuttered their encrypted email services. The companies said they couldn’t keep them running knowing they were vulnerable to surveillance if faced with a dedicated enough attacker… which for Lavabit came in the form of the federal government when it wanted access to NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden’s Lavabit account. Now the companies are teaming up with plans to offer an open-source tool that could make peer-to-peer, end-to-end encryption an easy add-on for any email service. The challenging part: they need to get other email providers - especially the heavyweights, Google, Yahoo, and Microsoft - to join them in offering the tool.

9 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 12:33:41pm

re: #5 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Seriously. They say this every fucking time and every fucking time the social con firebrand is overwhelmingly rejected at the polls. The Republican who did the best here was actually the one who painted himself (dishonestly at that) as a social moderate.

10 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 12:34:01pm

re: #3 Targetpractice

I’m shocked, SHOCKED to find that gambling is going on in here.

“Your e-mails sir.”

11 b.d.  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 12:35:13pm

Those are the guys the genius Snowden used to ensure double secret security? I feel so much better now.

12 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 12:35:46pm

re: #6 lawhawk

Not enough conservatives voting for him. If we only had more of those… /

Seriously though, conservativism can only be failed. If only they had true believers, they’d win.

Kinda like libertarians.

Frigging libertarians don’t eevn know who they are. I’ve known some who are staunchly pro choice, pro immigrant, and pro LGBT rights as I am but others who think libertarianism means being ultra anti-abortion, anti-LGBT, and putting landmines on the border between the US and Mexico. They’re already saying Sarvis was a Democratic plant because he falls in the former category of being pro choice, for marriage equality, and being welcoming to immigrants. Still sucks like all libertarians do on economic matters but that’s another story.

13 The Ghost of a Flea  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 12:35:46pm

re: #7 wrenchwench

Dudebros fleecing dudebros.

Sad.

Kinda.

Or not.

That’s how the Invisible, Lubed Hand of the Free Market rolls.

14 b.d.  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 12:37:55pm

Lavabit - Trust us, we say all the right things and have the lingo down.

I guess the name AirAmericaEmail was already taken.

15 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 12:38:05pm

talkingpointsmemo.com
Well what do you know, he’s a sore loser too. McAuliffe even called Cucci a man of principles during his victory speech. I know it’s easier to be gracious in victory than defeat but ffs Ken man up and call the man instead of sulking like a baby because you lost.

16 Kragar  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 12:38:05pm

re: #13 The Ghost of a Flea

That’s how the Invisible, Lubed Hand of the Free Market rolls.

Consumer protections are just big government communism destroying the free market.

17 ProTARDISLiberal  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 12:39:04pm

Oh, this ought to be good.

How Doctor Who Can Fix Your Love Life

18 Charles Johnson  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 12:41:31pm

re: #2 lawhawk

How could he have fooled so many people who thought that he was providing a secure setup? And is he now going to be looking at lawsuits for fraud and misrepresentation on top of whatever other legal issues he’s got?

On its face, it appears that they were a modern day version of PT Barnum - willingly parting people from their money who thought they were getting something they weren’t being provided.

Actually, the whole thing could have been a scam. Users would have no way of knowing whether any of the encryption Lavabit described was actually happening at all, because it all took place on Lavabit’s servers.

In fact, there would have been very little point in actually doing all this encryption. It was just meaningless overhead.

19 Kragar  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 12:42:19pm
20 erik_t  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 12:46:43pm

Your emails yearn to be free, dudebros.

21 GunstarGreen  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 12:46:52pm

re: #9 HappyWarrior

Seriously. They say this every fucking time and every fucking time the social con firebrand is overwhelmingly rejected at the polls. The Republican who did the best here was actually the one who painted himself (dishonestly at that) as a social moderate.

It should not be surprising or even interesting that people who have demonstrated a complete willingness to believe nonsense for no reason other than ‘because the pastor said so’ are also willing to believe that they WOULD have won, if only X.

They do not require proof or facts or even evidence. They have Faith™, and that’s all that matters.

22 b.d.  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 12:48:40pm

DEAR FRIEND I AM OFFERING TODAY A TOTALLY ENCRYPTED EMAIL SERVICE FOR YOU. OUR EMAIL SYSTEM IS TOTALLY NSA PROOF. SEE ATTACHED PICTURE OF GOATEED MAN WEARING SKINNY JEANS FOR PROOF OF OUR SERIOUSNESS AND AUTHENTICNESS .

23 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 12:49:04pm

re: #21 GunstarGreen

It should not be surprising or even interesting that people who have demonstrated a complete willingness to believe nonsense for no reason other than ‘because the pastor said so’ are also willing to believe that they WOULD have won, if only X.

They do not require proof or facts or even evidence. They have FaithTM, and that’s all that matters.

Oh I am not surprised or even interested. I’m amused that despite all factual evidence to the contrary, Fischer and others like him have had their vision repudiated time and time again in state and federal elections in recent years. I know we’re dealing with a man who actually believes that demons are behind the push for marriage equality not you know respect for people having equality under the law like a normal person would see that.

24 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 12:49:36pm

re: #22 b.d.

DEAR FRIEND I AM OFFERING TODAY A TOTALLY ENCRYPTED EMAIL SERVICE FOR YOU. OUR EMAIL SYSTEM IS TOTALLY NSA PROOF. SEE ATTACHED PICTURE OF GOATEED MAN WEARING SKINNY JEANS FOR PROOF OF OUR SERIOUSNESS AND AUTHENTICNESS .

you forgot hipster glasses. And I say that as a quasi-hipster.

25 Targetpractice  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 12:50:38pm

Hello friend, I am a server administrator at an email service located in Nigeria. A distant relative of yours recently expired and left his encrypted, totally secure email account to you. All we need is your bank info and we’ll happily send you the password to access this account and send all of your email securely away from prying eyes.

///

26 Varek Raith  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 12:53:55pm

Quantico is blowing up crap.

27 Charles Johnson  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 12:55:42pm

By the way - if much-vaunted encryption expert Edward Snowden was using this email service, he was taken in by a scam.

28 Bubblehead II  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 12:57:36pm

What gets me about this whole “secure” E-Mail server thing is that if you are so afraid someone is going to intercept and read your E-Mail, why in the hell would you let a 3rd party encrypt it for you?

Personally, if I had to send something so sensitive that it needed to be protected from prying eyes, I would encrypt it myself using PGP and sending the file as an attachment.

29 b.d.  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 12:57:46pm

re: #27 Charles Johnson

By the way - if much-vaunted encryption expert Edward Snowden was using this email service, he was taken in by a scam.

Snowden a naive rube being played by con men?!?! Never!!

30 erik_t  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 1:00:15pm

re: #28 Bubblehead II

What gets me about this whole “secure” E-Mail server thing is that if you are so afraid someone is going to intercept and read your E-Mail, why in the hell would you let a 3rd party encrypt it for you?

Personally, if I had to send something so sensitive that it needed to be protected from prying eyes, I would encrypt it myself using PGP and sending the file as an attachment.

With password communicated in a phone call, of course.

Sheesh, people.

31 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 1:01:30pm

re: #18 Charles Johnson

Actually, the whole thing could have been a scam. Users would have no way of knowing whether any of the encryption Lavabit described was actually happening at all, because it all took place on Lavabit’s servers.

In fact, there would have been very little point in actually doing all this encryption. It was just meaningless overhead.

More to the point, the entire exercise was useless in the real world. All the NSA or any third party had to do was listen in to the traffic streaming in and out of Lavabits servers or the nearest internet backbone node. Since all the email data was bouncing around in the wild as plaintext what’s the goddamned point of saying it’s kept encrypted on the server.

32 Kragar  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 1:02:01pm
33 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 1:02:50pm

re: #32 Kragar

[Embedded content]

If I’ve lost Pat Robertson, I’ve lost “fill in the blank.”

34 Bubblehead II  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 1:03:55pm

re: #28 Bubblehead II

What gets me about this whole “secure” E-Mail server thing is that if you are so afraid someone is going to intercept and read your E-Mail, why in the hell would you let a 3rd party encrypt it for you?

Personally, if I had to send something so sensitive that it needed to be protected from prying eyes, I would encrypt it myself using PGP and sending the file as an attachment.

And if I remember correctly, I believe that this is what Snowden may have done as he had to train GG in the use of PGP.

35 Bubblehead II  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 1:05:13pm

re: #30 erik_t

With password communicated in a phone call, of course.

Sheesh, people.

They don’t call them a public key for nothing.

36 polisurgist  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 1:05:50pm

But they had a policy in place that was strictly enforced and prevented abuse from happeni—oh.

37 AlexRogan  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 1:06:07pm

re: #27 Charles Johnson

By the way - if much-vaunted encryption expert Edward Snowden was using this email service, he was taken in by a scam.

re: #29 b.d.

Snowden a naive rube being played by con men?!?! Never!!

Snowden being played by GG, Assange, the Chinese, and the Russians wasn’t a one-off.

It’s a pattern.

Snowden, the “smartest man in the room”, is too clever by half.

38 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 1:06:18pm

re: #34 Bubblehead II

And if I remember correctly, I believe that this is what Snowden may have done as he had to train GG in the use of PGP.

Which begs the question of why use Lavabit if he was already encrypting all his email beforehand?

Leads back to perhaps being too lazy to do it, and thus looking for someone who claims to be able to do it for him?

39 Kragar  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 1:09:07pm
40 wrenchwench  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 1:09:49pm
41 ProTARDISLiberal  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 1:10:17pm

That article about Doctor Who and love was actually really reasonable. Do need to work on the “Happy” bit though. Experiences have made me jaded and harsh.

42 Lidane  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 1:12:03pm

ZOMG WE LIVE IN A COMMUNIST TYRANNY! TEH GUBMINT IZ DESTROYING BUSINESS!

43 J A P  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 1:12:05pm

Just to clarify things, most of Lavabit’s users were not using their encrypted service. I know, because I had a plain old email account with them, which happened to be free, I might add. As I understand it, they’ve had financial problems and have been on the verge of shutting down for years. Also, why on earth did a master of secrecy like Snowden use the email address ESnowden at Lavabit dot com? The service was used by criminals of a variety of stripes.

44 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 1:13:49pm

re: #40 wrenchwench

[Embedded content]

Awww.

45 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 1:14:45pm

re: #39 Kragar

[Embedded content]

I would but I don’ think we can get Bryan’s show here and I don’t think anyone listens to Pat Boone anymore.

46 Ian G.  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 1:15:37pm

re: #39 Kragar

I’ve infected many a home in my time by listening to Black Sabbath and watching Sam Raimi/Peter Jackson splatter movies.

47 Bubblehead II  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 1:15:56pm

re: #38 Feline Fearless Leader

Which begs the question of why use Lavabit if he was already encrypting all his email beforehand?

Leads back to perhaps being too lazy to do it, and thus looking for someone who claims to be able to do it for him?

Well my first response to this would be added security. I encrypt the file, I send it to an E-Mail server that (supposedly) encrypts it again. I now have two layers of encryption on my data using two different pass codes.

In the event the server gets raided, the file(s) will be that much harder to decrypt.

48 SpikeDad  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 1:16:23pm

re: #30 erik_t

Let’s not show our ignorance of Public Key encryption in a thread about Lavabit. Read up a little before you think that in order to use PKI you need to send someone a private key - that’s not how it works.

The point of PKI is that you are free to transmit your public key to whomever you like in an open manner. Only your private key needs to be kept secret and it alone is what’s needed to decrypt a message. You NEVER need to transmit your private key.

That’s why PKI works in the real world. What doesn’t work is the distribution of the public keys because in order for someone to send you an encrypted message, they need to get your public key and so far there are no universal directories of public keys.

PKI is also the mean to assure someone that you and you alone are the author of a particular message. Assuming your private key is not compromised, a message sent using it can only be from you and this can be verified by the recipient using only the public key which everyone knows.

49 dog philosopher  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 1:16:27pm
50 wrenchwench  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 1:17:13pm

re: #43 J A P

Just to clarify things, most of Lavabit’s users were not using their encrypted service. I know, because I had a plain old email account with them, which happened to be free, I might add. As I understand it, they’ve had financial problems and have been on the verge of shutting down for years. Also, why on earth did a master of secrecy like Snowden use the email address ESnowden at Lavabit dot com? The service was used by criminals of a variety of stripes.

The answer preceded the question?

51 HappyWarrior  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 1:18:22pm

It’s pretty amusing that while his holidness is talking about how the church can actually talk to gay couples, Bryan Fischer is telling people that they need to get rid of leftover demons from your home’s previous owner. One living in reality and the other I don’t know who supplies his drugs but they shouldn’t make him that paranoid.

52 b.d.  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 1:18:29pm

re: #42 Lidane

ZOMG WE LIVE IN A COMMUNIST TYRANNY! TEH GUBMINT IZ DESTROYING BUSINESS!

[Embedded content]

Worst. Marxist. Ever.

53 Ian G.  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 1:18:31pm

BTW, after reading Andrew Sullivan’s take on Chris Christie’s shot at the GOP Presidential nomination, I don’t think there will be more must-see TV than the GOP primary debates, just for the train-wreck potential. I mean, I wouldn’t vote for Christie in a million years, but I can’t wait for him to lay into Cruz and Rand Paul and whomever else the deranged right nominates. I want him to tear down that delusional megalomaniac Cruz and rip Teddy’s father too. I want Christie to call Paul a drooling half-wit who would be nothing without his father. Pull no punches, Chris!

54 AlexRogan  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 1:20:32pm

re: #49 dog philosopher

Nasty new malware locks your files forever, unless you pay ransom

isn’t that special

Yeah, CryptoLocker’s nasty, nasty stuff, but unlike most malware (and a lot of legit software), it works exactly as advertised.

55 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 1:20:53pm

re: #53 Ian G.

BTW, after reading Andrew Sullivan’s take on Chris Christie’s shot at the GOP Presidential nomination, I don’t think there will be more must-see TV than the GOP primary debates, just for the train-wreck potential. I mean, I wouldn’t vote for Christie in a million years, but I can’t wait for him to lay into Cruz and Rand Paul and whomever else the deranged right nominates. I want him to tear down that delusional megalomaniac Cruz and rip Teddy’s father too. I want Christie to call Paul a drooling half-wit who would be nothing without his father. Pull no punches, Chris!

He will have to do that to save the party over the long run, but the immediate effect will be civil war and chaos on the right.

56 abolitionist  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 1:22:48pm

re: #27 Charles Johnson

By the way - if much-vaunted encryption expert Edward Snowden was using this email service, he was taken in by a scam.

Charles, I’m a little disappointed in your coverage of this story. You seem to be suggesting to your readers that Lavabit was promising subscribers end-to-end security for their emails. No such thing was ever promised.

57 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 1:22:49pm

re: #3 Targetpractice

I’m shocked, SHOCKED to find that gambling is going on in here.

Your winnings, sir.

58 Lidane  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 1:23:16pm

re: #53 Ian G.

BTW, after reading Andrew Sullivan’s take on Chris Christie’s shot at the GOP Presidential nomination, I don’t think there will be more must-see TV than the GOP primary debates, just for the train-wreck potential. I mean, I wouldn’t vote for Christie in a million years, but I can’t wait for him to lay into Cruz and Rand Paul and whomever else the deranged right nominates. I want him to tear down that delusional megalomaniac Cruz and rip Teddy’s father too. I want Christie to call Paul a drooling half-wit who would be nothing without his father. Pull no punches, Chris!

If the GOP primary debates end up with Christie facing off against people like Paul, Santorum, and Cruz I will actually subject myself to the GOP fail just to watch him lay into the rest of them. I won’t ever vote for anyone with an (R) after their name, but at least the debates will be hilarious.

59 Justanotherhuman  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 1:24:38pm

This post really has me chuckling. Esp since it concerns “security-conscious” Snowjob and his buddies.

If you’re doing something criminal, would you really trust total strangers to keep you “protected”?

Everything I do on the internet (which isn’t much) is all above-board. And I give minimal information.

Just call me a Luddite when it comes to trusting much personal stuff to touted “security”, I guess, but I think it’s a bit naive to put too much trust into the internet which appears not that hard a nut to crack.

And since these libertarian dudebros are all about making money and a name for themselves and getting a bunch of attention, they actually don’t think they wouldn’t sell each other out when crunch time came?

60 dog philosopher  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 1:25:27pm

history of german health insurance before 1945 - the boring reality

Nearly everyone residing in Germany is guaranteed access to high-quality comprehensive health care. Statutory health insurance (Gesetzliche Krankenversicherung—GKV) has provided an organizational framework for the delivery of public health care and has shaped the roles of payers, insurance or sickness funds, and providers, physicians, and hospitals since the Health Insurance Act was adopted in 1883. In 1885 the GKV provided medical protection for 26 percent of the lower-paid segments of the labor force, or 10 percent of the population. As with social insurance, health insurance coverage was gradually extended by including ever more occupational groups in the plan and by steadily raising the income ceiling. Those earning less than the ceiling were required to participate in the insurance program. In 1995 the income ceiling was an annual income of about DM70,00 in the old Länder and DM57,600 in the new Länder .

In 1901 transport and office workers came to be covered by public health insurance, followed in 1911 by agricultural and forestry workers and domestic servants, and in 1914 by civil servants. Coverage was extended to the unemployed in 1918, to seamen in 1927, and to all dependents in 1930. In 1941 legislation was passed that allowed workers whose incomes had risen above the income ceiling for compulsory membership to continue their insurance on a voluntary basis. The same year, coverage was extended to all retired Germans. Salespeople came under the plan in 1966, self-employed agricultural workers in 1972, and students and the disabled in 1975.

The 1883 health insurance law did not address the relationship between sickness funds and doctors. The funds had full authority to determine which doctors became participating doctors and to set the rules and conditions under which they did so. These rules and conditions were laid down in individual contracts. Doctors, who had grown increasingly dissatisfied with these contracts and their limited access to the practice of medicine with the sickness funds, mobilized and founded a professional association (Hartmannbund) in 1900 and even went on strike several times. In 1913 doctors and sickness funds established a system of collective bargaining to determine the distribution of licenses and doctors’ remuneration. This approach is still practiced, although the system has undergone many modifications since 1913.

photius.com

61 Dr Lizardo  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 1:25:31pm

OT, but it looks like Blockbuster has gone, well……..bust.

finance.yahoo.com

62 Backwoods_Sleuth  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 1:26:12pm

re: #49 dog philosopher

Nasty new malware locks your files forever, unless you pay ransom

isn’t that special

yikes!

63 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 1:27:26pm

re: #61 Dr Lizardo

OT, but it looks like Blockbuster has gone, well……..bust.

finance.yahoo.com

Huh. Thought they went under awhile ago. I remember the closeouts of the stores in Madison about 2 ~2 1/2 years ago. Got a couple of used DS games for cheap.

64 J A P  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 1:28:08pm

re: #50 wrenchwench

He could have used any address he liked. He didn’t have to use ESnowden. He could have had the address DudebroNumberOne, and it would have been harder to find him. If you wanted a secret email address, why would you put your real name on it?

I was using it because it was free, but I wasn’t trying to do anything secret.

65 Dr Lizardo  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 1:28:26pm

re: #63 William Barnett-Lewis

Huh. Thought they went under awhile ago. I remember the closeouts of the stores in Madison about 2 ~2 1/2 years ago. Got a couple of used DS games for cheap.

I’m not surprised; if anything, I’m surprised they hung in there for so long. I figured that Netflix and whatnot would’ve killed them off a decade ago.

66 klys  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 1:28:41pm

re: #3 Targetpractice

I’m shocked, SHOCKED to find that gambling is going on in here.

I am so late to the party but I finally get this comment, having seen Casablanca for the first time last month.

67 Ian G.  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 1:30:17pm

re: #60 dog philosopher

Thanks for that. I was pretty sure it was Bismarck who instituted what could be considered the world’s first universal health coverage way back in the 19th century. Good to see I was right, and the wingnuts were wrong (again).

68 wrenchwench  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 1:30:19pm

re: #64 J A P

He could have used any address he liked. He didn’t have to use ESnowden. He could have had the address DudebroNumberOne, and it would have been harder to find him. If you wanted a secret email address, why would you put your real name on it?

I was using it because it was free, but I wasn’t trying to do anything secret.

OK, let me try again.

Because his ego made him do it?

69 Bubblehead II  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 1:30:49pm

re: #54 AlexRogan

Yeah, CryptoLocker’s nasty, nasty stuff, but unlike most malware (and a lot of legit software), it works exactly as advertised.

Which is why I a make a weekly backup of personal files to REMOVABLE MEDIA.

I do a full system back up to my D drive once a month or major system change (software/hardware) in the event of a total system crash or HD failure.

70 wrenchwench  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 1:30:50pm

re: #66 klys

I am so late to the party but I finally get this comment, having seen Casablanca for the first time last month.

We’ll always have Paris.

71 Charles Johnson  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 1:31:11pm

re: #56 abolitionist

Charles, I’m a little disappointed in your coverage of this story. You seem to be suggesting to your readers that Lavabit was promising subscribers end-to-end security for their emails. No such thing was ever promised.

Their home page stated: “a system so secure that even our administrators can’t read your email.”

That was simply false.

72 b.d.  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 1:32:19pm

re: #71 Charles Johnson

Their home page stated: “a system so secure that even our administrators can’t read your email.”

That was simply false.

Maybe all the administrators had blurry screens or were illiterate?

73 Decatur Deb  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 1:32:51pm

re: #39 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Feng Shee-ut.

74 klys  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 1:34:46pm

re: #70 wrenchwench

We’ll always have Paris.

The husband was adamant that my first viewing had to be on the big screen at the Stanford theater, which is why it took so long.

75 AlexRogan  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 1:34:53pm

re: #69 Bubblehead II

Which is why I a make a weekly backup of personal files to >REMOVABLE MEDIA.

I do a full system back up to my D drive once a month or major system change (software/hardware) in the event of a total system crash or HD failure.

Same, same.

I may not do it every week, but I try to do a complete backup of all of my machines (OS and data partitions) at least once a month with Acronis True Image to dedicated external hard drives.

76 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 1:36:25pm

re: #49 dog philosopher

Nasty new malware locks your files forever, unless you pay ransom

isn’t that special

That’s a viscous bit of malware, no doubt. Only way to fight it is by careful preparation. For the time being its use of encryption makes reactive measures less than effective. In time, though, government agencies like the NSA may figure out ways to overcome the encryption the crooks use. But by then criminals will be using new encryption methods and tricks.

It’s an offense/defense spiral, and those can go on for decades.

77 klys  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 1:36:39pm

I found a Star Wars anniversary card at the drug store.

/total dork

78 J A P  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 1:36:59pm

re: #68 wrenchwench

Sorry, I’ve had a few glasses of wine this evening and I’m a bit slow on the uptake.

79 J A P  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 1:38:53pm

re: #70 wrenchwench

Of all the gin joints in all the towns in all the world….

80 klys  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 1:39:23pm

re: #79 J A P

Of all the gin joints in all the towns in all the world….

Anyone who runs a gin joint can’t be that bad at heart.

//

81 wrenchwench  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 1:39:32pm

re: #78 J A P

Sorry, I’ve had a few glasses of wine this evening and I’m a bit slow on the uptake.

That’s OK, I think I’m making up answers to a question that was meant to be hypothetical.

Red or white?

82 abolitionist  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 1:40:13pm

re: #71 Charles Johnson

Their home page stated: “a system so secure that even our administrators can’t read your email.”

That was simply false.

One of my info sources on this topic:
ThisWeekInTech - SecurityNow Episode 417 Skip to 17:30

83 J A P  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 1:42:50pm

re: #81 wrenchwench

Two white and then the bar owner came by with a glass of red from the same region and, well, I couldn’t be rude.

84 Justanotherhuman  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 1:43:29pm

So funny—I just got an email from my auto ins carrier wanting me to register my policy online to maybe win $10.

Thanks, but no thanks. And I’ll continue to pay you by check.

85 Kragar  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 1:44:37pm

Because of “Casablanca”, “Overdrawn at the Memory Bank” was created.

No good deed goes unpunished.

86 Decatur Deb  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 1:44:55pm

re: #74 klys

The husband was >adamant that my first viewing had to be on the big screen at the Stanford theater, which is why it took so long.

He was right. We saw it recently at the Tampa, a 1920s house refurbed and run as a non-profit. The digital copy was spectacular, and the non-profit manager proposed to his girl on-stage to a Wurlitzer accompaniment. Pretty thorough afternoon.

87 klys  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 1:44:59pm

re: #82 abolitionist

One of my info sources on this topic:
ThisWeekInTech - Episode 417 Skip to 17:30

I sort of feel like the claim that “our admins cannot read your e-mail” (see screenshot) is not compatible with the reality of “our server transmits your e-mail to you in plaintext.”

Am I misunderstanding something here?

88 Kragar  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 1:46:06pm

re: #87 klys

I sort of feel like the claim that “our admins cannot read your e-mail” (see screenshot) is not compatible with the reality of “our server transmits your e-mail to you in plaintext.”

Am I misunderstanding something here?

None of their admins ever learned to read, so they aren’t lying.
/

89 klys  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 1:46:45pm

re: #86 Decatur Deb

He was right. We saw it recently at the Tampa, a 1920s house refurbed and run as a non-profit. The digital copy was spectacular, and the non-profit manager proposed to his girl on-stage to a Wurlitzer accompaniment. Pretty thorough afternoon.

I thoroughly enjoyed it. We’ve since watched it at home too (I’d gotten him the Blu-ray) but it was definitely worth seeing on the big screen. (They’re just wrapping up the Humphrey Bogart series, I think. Added 3 extra days of screening for Casablanca just because it sells out so often.)

90 Eclectic Cyborg  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 1:47:09pm

re: #77 klys

I found a Star Wars anniversary card at the drug store.

/total dork

A guy who goes to my church gave his wife an anniversary card this past week that read: “I love you more than Sheldon loves his spot.”

91 Charles Johnson  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 1:48:04pm

re: #82 abolitionist

One of my info sources on this topic:
ThisWeekInTech - SecurityNow Episode 417 Skip to 17:30

An interesting show, but it doesn’t do anything to refute what I’ve been saying, and what Marlinspike says at Ars Technica - the claims about their secure email service made on their website were not true.

92 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 1:51:55pm

re: #88 Kragar

None of their admins ever learned to read, so they aren’t lying.
/

“This is Peggy. We note that all the “R” in your mail are backwards.”

93 Kragar  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 1:52:00pm
94 Kragar  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 1:53:10pm

re: #92 Feline Fearless Leader

“This is Peggy. We note that all the “R” in your mail are backwards.”

I just started watching Chuck on Netflix. They had a seen where he and a buddy confuse an assassin by speaking Klingon.

95 Charles Johnson  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 1:53:13pm

On my Mac, by the way, I created a self-signed certificate that allows me to send encrypted email through Apple’s Mail program. It requires the email recipient to go through a bit of work to “trust” the certificate the first time they receive one of these encrypted emails, but that’s similar to the way PGP works.

That’s a free way to encrypt email end-to-end with Apple’s Mail client. It’s a bit tricky to set up, but there are tutorials out there on the web about it.

96 Decatur Deb  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 1:54:28pm

Heh. National Review on the Virginia election:

“And Now, the Airing of Grievances”.

(It’s Goldberg, so not linking.)

97 darthstar  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 1:54:55pm

Hey Republicans…suck this.

98 Charles Johnson  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 1:58:03pm

Been using PGP on and off for a long time, too. But the Mac OS version has always been a bit flaky and weird - I prefer using a self-signed certificate.

99 Ian G.  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 2:00:00pm

re: #97 darthstar

Hey Republicans…suck this.

[Embedded content]

Well, given that the GOP was telling everyone that ACA would lead to death squads coming to take granny out back to shoot her in the middle of the night, a malfunctioning website doesn’t sound so bad, does it?

The GOP lunacy over ACA was only going to backfire, because people wouldn’t even recognize “Obamacare” when it came if they really believed that GOP rhetoric.

100 missliberties  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 2:02:09pm

re: #37 AlexRogan

My opinion is the Snowden arrangements were made by Assange, the contact for all the players. But really, I am just guessing.

101 wrenchwench  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 2:04:00pm
102 abolitionist  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 2:04:30pm

re: #87 klys

I sort of feel like the claim that “our admins cannot read your e-mail” (see screenshot) is not compatible with the reality of “our server transmits your e-mail to you in plaintext.”

Am I misunderstanding something here?

If the sender of an email has not encrypted the body of that email, the entire thing would arrive at Lavabit unencrypted. In any case, the so-called metadata would not be encrypted —the envelope, if you care to call it that. Notwithstanding NSLs and such, Lavabit’s service involved a promise of keeping clients’ emails encrypted while they were stored on Lavabit’s own server(s).

Anyone inferring (or implying) a promise of end-to-end security for the overall email communications is in error.

103 Lidane  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 2:04:40pm
104 Decatur Deb  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 2:04:56pm

re: #99 Ian G.

Well, given that the GOP was telling everyone that ACA would lead to death squads coming to take granny out back to shoot her in the middle of the night, a malfunctioning website doesn’t sound so bad, does it?

The GOP lunacy over ACA was only going to backfire, because people wouldn’t even recognize “Obamacare” when it came if they really believed that GOP rhetoric.

This is cute:

Felons could have been hired as ObamaCare ‘navigators,’ Sebelius tells Senate panel

Fox jumped right on it, like an ice-cream sundae. Wife and I have been waiting for a month for our NCIC check, which seems to be an Alabama requirement. It’s a good policy, but probably just enacted to throw another delay in the way.

foxnews.com

105 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 2:07:30pm

re: #58 Lidane

If the GOP primary debates end up with Christie facing off against people like Paul, Santorum, and Cruz I will actually subject myself to the GOP fail just to watch him lay into the rest of them. I won’t ever vote for anyone with an (R) after their name, but at least the debates will be hilarious.

Meanwhile in Texas, Louie Fucking Gohmert, the lowest-watt bulb in a very dim chandelier, polls 9 POINTS higher than Julian Castro, and beats Bill White, too.

Gohmert.

106 Political Atheist  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 2:08:53pm

The topic reminds me of snapchat. I always figured they were wrong about the image really being gone.

Oh look!

Snapchats Don’t Disappear: Forensics Firm Has Pulled Dozens of Supposedly-Deleted Photos From Android Phones

107 Charles Johnson  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 2:09:10pm

re: #102 abolitionist

If the sender of an email has not encrypted the body of that email, the entire thing would arrive at Lavabit unencrypted. In any case, the so-called metadata would not be encrypted —the envelope, if you care to call it that. Notwithstanding NSLs and such, Lavabit’s service involved a promise of keeping clients’ emails encrypted while they were stored on Lavabit’s own server(s).

And they also promised that even administrators couldn’t read users’ emails, which is the point of the article, because that claim is just false. They promised not to, but breaking that promise would have been trivially simple, and that’s why the government wanted access.

108 Justanotherhuman  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 2:10:10pm

Really, though, even if his ex-customers are pissed, who’s going to sue Levison for misrepresentation? Snowden? The criminals using the service?

That in itself is protection for the provider if he or she doesn’t deliver what was promised. It’s almost like a drug dealer going to the police because someone stole their supply.

I wonder what these folks who contributed $100K to his “defense fund” (almost $5K more than the $96K goal) are talking about these days?

rally.org

109 klys  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 2:11:47pm

re: #102 abolitionist

If the sender of an email has not encrypted the body of that email, the entire thing would arrive at Lavabit unencrypted. In any case, the so-called metadata would not be encrypted —the envelope, if you care to call it that. Notwithstanding NSLs and such, Lavabit’s service involved a promise of keeping clients’ emails encrypted while they were stored on Lavabit’s own server(s).

Anyone inferring (or implying) a promise of end-to-end security for the overall email communications is in error.

I’m really not sure how to respond to this, except to say we clearly have different reads on what is implied by their statement and I suspect my read is the more common.

You seem to be saying that since they can’t read the e-mail while it is stored on the server, their statement was true. I’m saying that the fact that they *can* read this information during transmission means there is a point where the admins *can* read the e-mail associated with their system, and as such the overall statement and the implications from it are misleading, at best. It goes from the admins can never read your e-mail to they can read your e-mail, they just don’t when the transmission is happening.

110 abolitionist  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 2:11:53pm

re: #107 Charles Johnson

And they also promised that even administrators >couldn’t read users’ emails, which is the point of the article, because that claim is just false. They promised not to, but breaking that promise would have been trivially simple, and that’s why the government wanted access.

Indeed. The US govt knew early on that Snowden was one of Lavabit’s clients.

111 Lidane  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 2:12:42pm

re: #105 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce

Meanwhile in Texas, Louie Fucking Gohmert, the lowest-watt bulb in a very dim chandelier, polls 9 POINTS higher than Julian Castro, and beats Bill White, too.

Gohmert.

There are a lot of deeply stupid people in this state. Castro would be amazing in higher office, but there are enough dipshits who would equate him with Fidel Castro that he’s going to have an uphill battle.

112 Charles Johnson  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 2:13:08pm

re: #102 abolitionist

Anyone inferring (or implying) a promise of end-to-end security for the overall email communications is in error.

You’re arguing against a point nobody is making. I understand that they didn’t promise end-to-end encryption - but they DID promise that it was encrypted on their servers in a way that couldn’t be read by administrators. Right there. On the home page. Verbatim.

113 Kragar  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 2:13:48pm
114 klys  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 2:14:24pm

re: #112 Charles Johnson

You’re arguing against a point nobody is making. I understand that they didn’t promise end-to-end encryption - but they DID promise that it was encrypted on their servers in a way that couldn’t be read by administrators. Right there. On the home page. Verbatim.

I mean, this seems simple. At the point where the e-mail is leaving their servers, it is in plaintext. Ergo, it can be read.

115 Charles Johnson  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 2:15:44pm

re: #114 klys

And even more than that, everything an administrator would need to decrypt and read any email is stored right there on the same servers.

116 Backwoods_Sleuth  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 2:15:58pm

New oppression victim!


WikiLeaks Snowden staffer says unsafe to return to Britain

ETA:

In August, Sarah Harrison helped former US National Security Agency contractor Snowden flee Hong Kong to Russia, where he has now been granted temporary asylum from US authorities who want to prosecute him for leaking official secrets.
In a statement datelined from Berlin and issued by anti-secrecy website WikiLeaks, Harrison said she had now left Snowden’s side and had “arrived in Germany over the weekend”.

and this:

But she said the detention under British anti-terror laws of David Miranda — the partner of journalist Glenn Greenwald who landed the scoop of the Snowden leaks — showed there was a climate of “persecution” in her own home country, Britain.
“Almost every story published on the GCHQ and NSA bulk spying programs falls under the UK government’s interpretation of the word ‘terrorism’,” she wrote.
“In response, our lawyers have advised me that it is not safe to return home.”

117 Eclectic Cyborg  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 2:16:14pm

I didn’t know what Snapchat was so I googled it. Should’ve stayed away from the image search.

118 klys  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 2:17:15pm

re: #117 Eclectic Cyborg

I didn’t know what Snapchat was so I googled it. Should’ve stayed away from the image search.

In general when dealing with something unknown on the Internet, this is a good plan.

119 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 2:17:49pm

re: #113 Kragar

So if a town council banned Christianity, they could because they aren’t bound by the Constitution, that is your arguement.

You miss his point, you are assuming that all religions are to be viewed equally and neutrally under the Constitution.

But you overlook the fact that America is a Christian Nation, founded on Biblical Principles, which have precedence over all other religions in this, God’s Own Country.

/

120 Kragar  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 2:21:12pm

The greatest part about working an understaffed, under geared job?

Having work I’ve been doing completely tossed aside by other people who need to use the same gear, so I have to start from scratch, then explaining to management why the work wasn’t done according to their “optimum time schedule”.

121 Charles Johnson  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 2:21:33pm

re: #7 wrenchwench

Dudebros fleecing dudebros.

And more than a few outright criminals. Lavabit was also involved in a child porn investigation previously.

122 Political Atheist  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 2:21:37pm

re: #117 Eclectic Cyborg

I didn’t know what Snapchat was so I googled it. Should’ve stayed away from the image search.

Oops sorry dude.

123 klys  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 2:22:36pm

re: #120 Kragar

The greatest part about working an understaffed, under geared job?

Having work I’ve been doing completely tossed aside by other people who need to use the same gear, so I have to start from scratch, then explaining to management why the work wasn’t done according to their “optimum time schedule”.

I take it management doesn’t accept “either provide more equipment or smarter coworkers” as a viable reason?

124 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 2:25:47pm

re: #123 klys

I take it management doesn’t accept “either provide more equipment or smarter coworkers” as a viable reason?

Not if it would cause the stock price to decline 0.000001 cents per share.

125 GeneJockey  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 2:25:54pm

Jesu Christy! I’ve been discussing Voter ID with the same libertarian guy. What a maroon! He has even accepted that there is no significant voter fraud, and that there would be evidence if there were, but he STILL INSISTS that ‘Every effort should be made to insure the integrity of the vote!’

Fucking libertarians - they’re full of faux-pithy aphorisms and ‘principles’, but they don’t give a flying squirrel about the cost of getting there.

126 Kragar  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 2:25:58pm

re: #123 klys

I take it management doesn’t accept “either provide more equipment or smarter coworkers” as a viable reason?

“You’ll just have to do more with less.”
“You’ll just have to get used to not getting all the fucking reports you want on a given day.”

I love the BS “This is getting tracked at the highest levels” line. We had a fuck up a few weeks back where some of the data didn’t get fed into the reporting system.

How many people who were “tracking” noticed and complained?

A sum total of none.

127 GeneJockey  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 2:27:49pm

re: #101 wrenchwench

[Embedded content]

That’s my kind of thinking!

128 Kragar  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 2:30:38pm

Due to my extensive knowledge of techno-babble and knowledge of management practices, I decided to see how much of what I did at work could be ignored while still actually providing the services that my job entails.

As long as you provide “documentation”, no one gives a fuck.

129 piratedan  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 2:35:58pm

re: #128 Kragar

Due to my extensive knowledge of techno-babble and knowledge of management practices, I decided to see how much of what I did at work could be ignored while still actually providing the services that my job entails.

As long as you provide “documentation”, no one gives a fuck.

when I was let go from my technical support job of 19 years, I was told that part of the problem was that I spent less time on service calls than my contemporaries. I indicated that since I had 19 years of experience, I would hope that the efficiency of my output would somehow outclass that of someone relatively new to the job.

They didn’t see the connection, since I didn’t meet those expectations, my services were no longer required…..

also… they had the chutzpah to fire me over the phone…

yet, blessing in disguise (as these life changing events can sometimes turn out to be… after a reapplication of effort)

130 GeneJockey  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 2:38:04pm

re: #129 piratedan

when I was let go from my technical support job of 19 years, I was told that part of the problem was that I spent less time on service calls than my contemporaries. I indicated that since I had 19 years of experience, I would hope that the efficiency of my output would somehow outclass that of someone relatively new to the job.

They didn’t see the connection, since I didn’t meet those expectations, my services were no longer required…..

also… they had the chutzpah to fire me over the phone…

yet, blessing in disguise (as these life changing events can sometimes turn out to be… after a reapplication of effort)

Did the call take as long as they expected?
////

131 piratedan  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 2:38:57pm

re: #130 GeneJockey

Did the call take as long as they expected?
////

strangely enough, those calls aren’t considered part of the client satisfaction matrix, go figure :-)

132 darthstar  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 2:39:46pm

re: #116 Backwoods_Sleuth

New oppression victim!


WikiLeaks Snowden staffer says unsafe to return to Britain

ETA:

and this:

Fuck her. The Home Office should just send her a letter letting her know she needs to return home to revalidate her passport. Or she can choose to spend her remaining days abroad.

Choices. People need to make them for themselves.

133 GeneJockey  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 2:39:54pm

re: #131 piratedan

strangely enough, those calls aren’t considered part of the client satisfaction matrix, go figure :-)

Was the call monitored to ensure your satisfaction? I bet they’d have gotten a black mark….
///

134 darthstar  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 2:40:47pm

re: #131 piratedan

strangely enough, those calls aren’t considered part of the client satisfaction matrix, go figure :-)

You should have said, “Please press 1 to fire me in English. Imprime dos por Espanol.”

135 piratedan  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 2:41:45pm

re: #133 GeneJockey

Was the call monitored to ensure your satisfaction? I bet they’d have gotten a black mark….
///

unfortunately no, thus my paradigm wasn’t maximized for realizing the penultimate client satisfaction experience :-)

136 piratedan  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 2:43:59pm

re: #134 darthstar

You should have said, “Please press 1 to fire me in English. Imprime dos por Espanol.”

lol…. it is a good thing that I can laugh about it now as the company was being Dilbertized by an upper management that had no idea on what the product did and a middle management complicit in helping to keep their deadlines resembling an absurdist treatise of unrealistic expectations devoid of actual resources to do the work.

137 darthstar  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 2:53:12pm

Okay…just read this story…plaintext? Really? There’s no need to access the servers…just trace the traffic going to-from them and log it.

Idiots.

138 thedopefishlives  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 3:17:09pm

re: #137 darthstar

Okay…just read this story…plaintext? Really? There’s no need to access the servers…just trace the traffic going to-from them and log it.

Idiots.

I just read this story as well, and it caught my eye because one of my favorite online sites, Groklaw, closed down because the owner of Lavabit told the owner of Groklaw, “If you knew what I know about the world of email, you’d stop using it.” PJ then got all paranoid and withdrew from all online activities, including shutting down Groklaw. It infuriated me at the time because I knew there was nothing to it, but there’s no convincing some people. This just reinforces my belief. And it’s sad to see such a valuable online resource go to pot because someone was full of the proverbial dung.

139 Kragar  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 3:18:50pm
140 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 3:26:28pm

re: #102 abolitionist

Anyone inferring (or implying) a promise of end-to-end security for the overall email communications is in error.

OK.

“a system so secure that even our administrators can’t read your email.”

1. It’s a lie, even under the most generous definition of “system.”
2. It’s not very difficult to infer that they’re talking about more than just their servers. Anybody with even cursory knowledge of how email works might reasonably conclude that an email system includes the delivery chain. I mean why else call it secure? Maybe we’re arguing over the difference between the system and the service, but that seems really goddamned pedantic. Any third party sniffing packets near Lavabit’s ISP would be getting email content in plaintext, making the service intrinsically insecure.

It would be like an armored car service advertising on the armor rating of their cars, saying (falsely) that the drivers don’t have access to the cash, but then failing to mention that their cars don’t actually do any pick ups or deliveries, that they rely on random strangers to do that for them.

141 goddamnedfrank  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 3:28:24pm

re: #139 Kragar

[Embedded content]

It’s okay, kozmo.com is making a comeback.

142 Charles Johnson  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 3:33:24pm

re: #140 goddamnedfrank

The Lavabit setup, assuming it actually was encrypted the way they described, is more like a safety deposit box where the owner of the box holds the keys.

143 Charles Johnson  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 3:38:41pm

Once again I’m struck by the level of dudebro naïveté required to find it outrageous that the feds would want to access the email of the perpetrator of the largest theft of top secret intelligence info in history.

Levison seems to believe he should be allowed to say “no” when the investigators come around. Boy, wouldn’t it be lovely if the world worked that way?

144 dell*nix  Wed, Nov 6, 2013 4:18:23pm

re: #132 darthstar

A whole bunch of stupid comments to that article.

145 jonhendry  Fri, Nov 8, 2013 10:37:20am

re: #24 HappyWarrior

And I think it needs to be a full beard, but a hipster beard, not an aging-hippie beard.


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