Asinine Libertarian Column of the Day: Conor Friedersdorf Thinks Obama Might Have Spied on Romney

Good grief
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This guy is supposed to be one of the more sane right wing libertarians, but this asinine column pretty much removes him from consideration for that dubious award, as Conor Friedersdorf asks the question: Did the Obama administration use the NSA to spy on Mitt Romney during the election?

Pro tip: if you have to include a disclaimer that the idea you’re pushing in your column is “loony” and you don’t even believe it yourself, you’re doin’ it wrong.

Did the Obama Administration ever spy on Mitt Romney during the recent presidential contest? Alex Tabarrok, who raised the question at the popular economics blog Marginal Revolution, acknowledges that it is provocative. Until recently, he would’ve regarded it as a “loony” question, he writes, and he doesn’t think that President Obama ordered the NSA to spy on Romney for political gain.

Let’s be clear: I don’t think so either. In every way, I regard Obama as our legitimate head of state, full stop. But I agree with Tabarrok that today, “the only loonies are those who think the question unreasonable.” * Most Americans have a strong intuition that spying and electoral manipulation of that kind could never happen here. I share that intuition, but I know it’s nonsense: the Nixon Administration did spy on its opponents for political gain. Why do I worry that an unreformed surveillance state could put us in even greater jeopardy of such shenanigans?

It gets worse from here. Honestly, if I were an editor for The Atlantic I’d find this absurd bilge deeply embarrassing.

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396 comments
1 Bulworth  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 10:55:37am

Did the Obama Administration ever spy on Mitt Romney during the recent presidential contest? Alex Tabarrok, who raised the question at the popular economics blog Marginal Revolution, acknowledges that it is provocative.

Hey, just asking questions…

It would be irresponsible not to speculate.

2 HappyWarrior  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 10:55:53am

I don’t think Obama needed to spy on Mitt.

3 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 10:56:36am

So it was really the NSA that slipped that 47% video clip to Mother Jones. Who’da thunk?

4 Targetpractice  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 10:57:09am

re: #2 HappyWarrior

I don’t think Obama needed to spy on Mitt.

Agreed, what would be gained by spending resources spying on a man who was engaged in the joyless task of shooting both feet off? Hell, the media didn’t have the NSA’s resources and still dug up a treasure trove of reasons not to vote for Willard.

5 HappyWarrior  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 10:57:24am

re: #3 Vicious Babushka

So it was really the NSA that slipped that 47% video clip to Mother Jones. Who’da thunk?

Yes, that waiter was a NSA agent.// He’s being sent to Russia to snuff out Snowden and then to Brazil to get Glenn Greenwald.

6 GeneJockey  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 10:58:05am
Let’s be clear: I don’t think so either. In every way, I regard Obama as our legitimate head of state, full stop. But I agree with Tabarrok that today, “the only loonies are those who think the question unreasonable.”

Bulworth got to the ‘irresponsible not to speculate’ line first, but seriously - What unbridled dumbfuckery.

7 Aunty Entity Dragon  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 10:58:07am

It’s Watergate…with DROOOOOONES!!!11TY!

8 HappyWarrior  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 10:58:14am

re: #4 Targetpractice

Agreed, what would be gained by spending resources spying on a man who was engaged in the joyless task of shooting both feet off? Hell, the media didn’t have the NSA’s resources and still dug up a treasure trove of reasons not to vote for Willard.

Hell Mitt alone wrote his own political obituary. If he had even pretended to have principles……..

9 makeitstop  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 10:58:18am

Obama: So, what did you find out?

NSA: Romney’s an isolated elitist and his campaign staff is incompetent.

Obama: We already knew that. What am I paying you guys for, again?

10 darthstar  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 10:59:00am
11 GeneJockey  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 10:59:20am

Coming up next - bartender who recorded ‘47%’ speech was an NSA agent.

12 Aunty Entity Dragon  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 10:59:43am

Who the fuck needs spies when he kept saying outrageous shit at fundraisers in front of the wait staff at hotels??

13 darthstar  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 10:59:58am

Spying on Romney would have been redundant. The man flailed throughout his campaign in the most public ways possible.

14 HappyWarrior  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 11:00:35am

re: #10 darthstar

[Embedded content]

I’d like to meet the Bayou state politician who is not crooked. I mean the guy who ran against David Duke had the slogan “Vote for the crook not the kook”

15 GeneJockey  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 11:00:46am

re: #12 Aunty Entity Dragon

Who the fuck needs spies when he kept saying outrageous shit at fundraisers in front of the wait staff at hotels??

This is the nature of being rich - you’re taught to ignore ‘The Help’, and it comes back to bite you in the ass.

16 darthstar  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 11:01:04am

re: #12 Aunty Entity Dragon

Who the fuck needs spies when he kept saying outrageous shit at fundraisers in front of the wait staff at hotels??

Exactly. Then there were the interviews he did with his wife present all the time…softball questions that they couldn’t answer without disparaging someone (“Latinos need to get over themselves” ring a bell?)

17 Varek Raith  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 11:01:42am

The NSA is under your bed too.

18 Aunty Entity Dragon  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 11:02:06am

re: #13 darthstar

Spying on Romney would have been redundant. The man flailed throughout his campaign in the most public ways possible.

These classics never fade away…

Did these cookies come from a convenience store?

The trees are the right height.

Some of my friends are NASCAR team owners…

Take a chance! Borrow $20,000 from your parents and start a business!

19 Mike Lamb  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 11:02:08am

It would be irresponsible not to speculate.

20 GeneJockey  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 11:02:49am

re: #16 darthstar

Exactly. Then there were the interviews he did with his wife present all the time…softball questions that they couldn’t answer without disparaging someone (“Latinos need to get over themselves” ring a bell?)

My favorite part was when they unleashed his wife to ‘humanize’ Mitt, and she turned out to be an even more blatant out-of-touch rich elitist than he is!

21 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 11:03:34am

re: #7 Aunty Entity Dragon

Hope you’re having better days now.
You logged out the other day before I got to say {{hugs}}.

22 Aunty Entity Dragon  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 11:03:57am

re: #20 GeneJockey

My favorite part was when they unleashed his wife to ‘humanize’ Mitt, and she turned out to be an even more blatant out-of-touch rich elitist than he is!

But she has an awesome dancing horse!

23 gwangung  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 11:04:02am

Cripes. I bet we’ll have a lot of dim bulbs conflating “spying” with opposition research. I mean, what minimally intelligent businessman or political DOESN’T do competitive intelligence on the opposition?

24 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 11:04:24am

re: #20 GeneJockey

My favorite part was when they unleashed his wife to ‘humanize’ Mitt, and she turned out to be an even more blatant out-of-touch rich elitist than he is!

Unpossible!

25 Aunty Entity Dragon  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 11:05:39am

re: #23 gwangung

Cripes. I bet we’ll have a lot of dim bulbs conflating “spying” with opposition research. I mean, what minimally intelligent businessman or political DOESN’T do competitive intelligence on the opposition?

Three words:

George Allen. Macaca.

26 GeneJockey  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 11:06:10am

re: #22 Aunty Entity Dragon

But she has an awesome dancing horse!

Hey, how many Americans can say they own a world class athlete? Not many, at least not since since 1865!

27 Eclectic Cyborg  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 11:06:49am

re: #5 HappyWarrior

Yes, that waiter was a NSA agent.// He’s being sent to Russia to snuff out Snowden and then to Brazil to get Glenn Greenwald.

Secret Agent Man…Secret Agent Man…they gave you a number and took away your name.

28 HappyWarrior  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 11:07:17am

re: #20 GeneJockey

My favorite part was when they unleashed his wife to ‘humanize’ Mitt, and she turned out to be an even more blatant out-of-touch rich elitist than he is!

That one was actually a little sad. Funny mostly but a little sad because I wanted to give Ann a chance since I knew she had MS and I imagine that’s tough to live with even being very wealthy but man she just reinforced the image of her husband of being a snob when she opened her mouth. I mean despite what she and Mitt believe. People don’t resent them for their wealth. They resent them because they think their wealth means they’re better than everyone else and Mitt treated the presidency like a birthright because he’s Willard Romney gosh darn it, son of George. From what I know about Mitt’s father who probably actually met my grandfather (my grandfather was a labor arbirator for the NLRB and George Romney an auto exec so I imagine their paths crossed), from what I know about George Romney, he was a decent guy who spoke out against his church’s then backwards policies on black people. Mitt OTOH went from trying to outflank Teddy Kennedy on GLBT rights to going full out anti-gay. Mitt’s record at Bain bothered me but his record of selling whatever principles he may have had simply to look more socially conservative was even worse. Sorry I’m rambling I know.

29 Aunty Entity Dragon  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 11:07:34am

re: #26 GeneJockey

Hey, how many Americans can say they own a world class athlete? Not many, at least not since since 1865!

You win the thread.

30 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 11:07:57am

Why didn’t Obama get the IRS to accidentally leak Romney’s tax returns?

Would be irresponsible not to speculate…

31 HappyWarrior  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 11:08:37am

re: #25 Aunty Entity Dragon

Three words:

George Allen. Macaca.

Mitt can take solace in knowing that George Allen ended up looking even worse than Mitt did after that.

32 HappyWarrior  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 11:09:15am

re: #30 Sol Berdinowitz

Why didn’t Obama get the IRS to accidentally leak Romney’s tax returns?

Would be irresponsible not to speculate…

Seriously if Obama was this Nixon like figure, he would have done something like that but notice that he did not. Hmmmmmmmm

33 Eclectic Cyborg  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 11:09:19am
34 darthstar  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 11:10:03am
35 GeneJockey  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 11:10:43am

re: #28 HappyWarrior

That one was actually a little sad. Funny mostly but a little sad because I wanted to give Ann a chance since I knew she had MS and I imagine that’s tough to live with but man she just reinforced the image of her husband of being a snob when she opened her mouth. I mean despite what she and Mitt believe. People don’t resent them for their wealth. They resent them because they think their wealth means they’re better than everyone else and Mitt treated the presidency like a birthright because he’s Willard Romney gosh darn it, son of George. From what I know about Mitt’s father who probably actually met my grandfather (my grandfather was a labor arbirator for the NLRB and George Romney an auto exec so I imagine their paths crossed), from what I know about George Romney, he was a decent guy who spoke out against his church’s then backwards policies on black people. Mitt OTOH went from trying to outflank Teddy Kennedy on GLBT rights to going full out anti-gay. Mitt’s record at Bain bothered me but his record of selling whatever principles he may have had simply to look more socially conservative was even worse. Sorry I’m rambling I know.

Not rambling at all. I think it’s very much on point WRT Mitt. He reminded me of GW Bush, in that it seems like for both of them, the reason they thought they should be President is that people like them are SUPPOSED to be President. Bush came into office with not a fucking clue what he wanted his Presidency to be about. If it hadn’t been for 9/11 he’d have probably lost in 2004 because he simply had no vision of America or the Presidency.

36 Aunty Entity Dragon  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 11:11:16am

re: #28 HappyWarrior

He did utterly nothing at all in his public appearances to dispel the “mean streak asshole” stories from his younger days…if anything, he seemed to almost go out of his way to confirm them.

Then we get the story last week that he had fun mocking plus size women while on the campaign trail and telling a random aid “Hey…there goes your date for tonight!”

No self awareness at all…and boundless contempt for everybody else who was not in his family or an accepted social peer.

37 dog philosopher  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 11:11:59am

re: #25 Aunty Entity Dragon

Three words:

George Allen. Macaca.

we can only imagine what treats the 2014 and 2016 campaigns will yield for our delectation

38 EmmaAnne  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 11:12:20am
And when we hate people, it’s always for the same reason: They refuse to acknowledge that their power brings with it any responsibility. It’s why we hate bullies and dictators and supervillains. It’s why we hate people who benefit hugely from society and then pretend like they’re living on an island with a population of only them.

Read more: cracked.com

39 darthstar  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 11:12:49am

re: #36 Aunty Entity Dragon

He did utterly nothing at all in his public appearances to dispel the “mean streak asshole” stories from his younger days…if anything, he seemed to almost go out of his way to confirm them.

Then we get the story last week that he had fun mocking plus size women while on the campaign trail and telling a random aid “Hey…there goes your date for tonight!”

No self awareness at all…and boundless contempt for everybody else who was not in his family or an accepted social peer.

I hadn’t heard about that. What a fucking dick.

40 GeneJockey  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 11:13:55am

re: #39 darthstar

I hadn’t heard about that. What a fucking dick.

Then there was the story about calling his aides over to watch Chris Christie fighting his way up a narrow airliner aisle.

What an asshole!

41 erik_t  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 11:14:18am

Maybe if the national intelligence establishment had existed in any form before Obama created it out of thin air in 2009 because he is mean and evil and hates freedom, we could have some copies of all of those emails Romney’s staff deleted as he left office.

///

42 GeneJockey  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 11:14:36am

re: #38 EmmaAnne

Read more: cracked.com

That’s an apt description of every libertarian or conservative I’ve ever met.

43 makeitstop  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 11:14:52am

re: #20 GeneJockey

My favorite part was when they unleashed his wife to ‘humanize’ Mitt, and she turned out to be an even more blatant out-of-touch rich elitist than he is!

Stop it. This is hard.”

44 HappyWarrior  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 11:15:12am

re: #36 Aunty Entity Dragon

He did utterly nothing at all in his public appearances to dispel the “mean streak asshole” stories from his younger days…if anything, he seemed to almost go out of his way to confirm them.

Then we get the story last week that he had fun mocking plus size women while on the campaign trail and telling a random aid “Hey…there goes your date for tonight!”

No self awareness at all…and boundless contempt for everybody else who was not in his family or an accepted social peer.

Oh wow I had not heard about that new development. I’m actually looking forward to reading a book about this past election. And I agree, Mitt just re-enforced that image of himself when we got stories about him as a high schooler harassing his roommate who had long hair. It was like “Oh, yeah I believe he could do that.” and then he laughed about the Seamus story which I thought was messed up because he even admitted the poor dog shat himself after getting off of the top of the car.

45 Patricia Kayden  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 11:15:24am

Does Conor beat his wife and eat little children at night? Not to ask would be loony.

46 Eclectic Cyborg  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 11:15:29am

Let’s not forget, this is the same Mitt Romney whose campaign cut off workers credit cards before they could even get a ride home on ELECTION NIGHT.

47 Aunty Entity Dragon  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 11:15:30am

re: #35 GeneJockey

Not rambling at all. I think it’s very much on point WRT Mitt. He reminded me of GW Bush, in that it seems like for both of them, the reason they thought they should be President is that people like them are SUPPOSED to be President. Bush came into office with not a fucking clue what he wanted his Presidency to be about. If it hadn’t been for 9/11 he’d have probably lost in 2004 because he simply had no vision of America or the Presidency.

This this this and 10 updings with a cherry on top.

Romney truly believed it was his right to be POTUS.

In April, when ABC News’s Diane Sawyer asked the Romneys what they would say to President and Mrs. Obama, Mitt began with “Start packing.” If what he said was ungracious then what his wife had to say was presumptuous.

I believe it’s Mitt’s time. I believe that the country needs the kind of leadership that he is going to be able to offer and I believe he is the person that can turn around this economy. So I think it is, it’s our turn now

.

48 Gus  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 11:15:36am
49 HappyWarrior  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 11:15:45am

re: #43 makeitstop

Stop it. This is hard.”

You humans and your empathy.

50 Gus  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 11:16:19am

So when does Conor get hired by Breitbart?

51 Snarknado!  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 11:16:35am

re: #2 HappyWarrior

I don’t think Obama needed to spy on Mitt.

True, but Nixon didn’t need to spy on McGovern either (just saying, that doesn’t mean I think Obama DID spy on Mitt).

(Edited to correct name — yes, I’m getting senile.)

52 GeneJockey  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 11:16:43am

re: #45 Patricia Kayden

Does Conor beat his wife and eat little children at night? Not to ask would be loony.

Well, he has the capability to do that, so we’ll go with the headline that says he does, while burying the fact that there’s no evidence to suggest it in paragraph 5.
///

53 Ace-o-aces  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 11:17:15am

re: #1 Bulworth

Hey, just asking questions…

It would be irresponsible not to speculate.

Did Romney gain his wealth by sacrificing orphans to Cthulhu? I’M JUST ASKING THE QUESTION!!!!

54 HappyWarrior  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 11:18:25am

Part of me wondered during the campaign if Mitt may be on the spectrum. I mean obviously he’s not a robot so I wondered if he could possibly be on the autistic spectrum and just have a hard time relating to people. In that way, I did feel some rare sympathy for Mitt who I made no secret about my distaste for but OTOH as someone on the spectrum, I try to go out of my way to try to empathize more. I’ve never been a hugger but I try to offer support when I know someone is down on their luck. I don’t know what Mitt’s deal is and was.

55 Aunty Entity Dragon  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 11:19:00am


Mitt Romney Also Made Fun of Random ‘Chunky’ Women

By Caroline Bankoff

Yesterday, we learned that Mitt Romney wasn’t shy about mocking onetime potential running mate Chris Christie’s weight. (According to Mark Halperin and John Heilemann’s Double Down: Game Change 2012, the former Republican nominee “marveled” at Christie’s “difficulties in making his way down the narrow aisle of the campaign bus” and “cackled” at a video of the New Jersey governor without his suit jacket.) An excerpt of Halperin and Heilemann’s book published today by TIME reveals that Romney’s fratty attitude toward fat people does not stop at Christie: “‘Oh, there’s your date for tonight,’ he would say to male members of his traveling crew when they spied a chunky lady on the street.” Very presidential.

56 Targetpractice  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 11:19:14am

re: #48 Gus

[Embedded content]

Both of whom voted against cloture. Guess they’ve decided that, since it’s happening anyway, and the House has said they’ll kill it, might as well jump on the bandwagon.

57 HappyWarrior  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 11:19:26am

re: #51 Snarknado!

True, but Nixon didn’t need to spy on Mondale either (just saying, that doesn’t mean I think Obama DID spy on Mitt).

McGovern but actually his guys did play a role in handicapping the Dem nomination by spreading lies about Muskie.

58 GunstarGreen  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 11:20:38am

re: #15 GeneJockey

This is the nature of being rich - you’re taught to ignore ‘The Help’, and it comes back to bite you in the ass.

There’s an interesting little documentary piece currently up on Netflix titled Park Avenue: Money, Power and the American Dream. One of the segments is an interview with a doorman at 740 Park Avenue, the kind of building where folks like the Koch brothers make residence, and he had a very revealing thing to say regarding the children of the ultra-wealthy.

When they’re very young, they play around with the door people, treat them like family, that sort of thing. Class doesn’t mean very much to a preschooler. But then they reach a certain age, and all of a sudden they stop having anything to do with the building employees that they used to have such a good relationship with. Suddenly they’re much more like their parents.

At some point, the kids are quite literally taught to ignore The Help, and not to associate with peons.

One wonders at what point America will tire of its de-facto aristocracy.

59 Charles Johnson  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 11:20:42am
60 HappyWarrior  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 11:20:52am

re: #55 Aunty Entity Dragon

>
Mitt Romney Also Made Fun of Random ‘Chunky’ Women

By Caroline Bankoff

Wonder if that was one of the reasons Christie turned him down. Christie’s obviously a proud guy. And I have to say having been big like him before, I wouldn’t have taken too kindly if someone I thought was my friend mocked me like that.

61 lawhawk  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 11:20:54am

re: #53 Ace-o-aces

Did Romney gain his wealth by sacrificing orphans to Cthulhu? >I’M JUST ASKING THE QUESTION!!!!

Nope. Just the dog. /

62 GeneJockey  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 11:21:35am

re: #54 HappyWarrior

Part of me wondered during the campaign if Mitt may be on the spectrum. I mean obviously he’s not a robot so I wondered if he could possibly be on the autistic spectrum and just have a hard time relating to people. In that way, I did feel some rare sympathy for Mitt who I made no secret about my distaste for but OTOH as someone on the spectrum, I try to go out of my way to try to empathize more. I’ve never been a hugger but I try to offer support when I know someone is down on their luck. I don’t know what Mitt’s deal is and was.

Dunno. Certainly I’d describe him as socially inept - he seemed to only be able to relate to his rich peers without coming across as clueless and/or condescending. The usual claim about ASD is lack of empathy, but that’s not true, it’s lack of ability to read the other person in real time. Mitt, OTOH, seems to lack empathy.

63 dog philosopher  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 11:21:37am

be prepared - twitter stock offering means pressure to become profitable, which means ads

lots of ads

64 Targetpractice  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 11:22:18am

re: #59 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Sure didn’t. They relegated the opinions of the experts they did bother to bring on the documents to footnotes in their final report. IIRC, they declared that the final outcome was “inconclusive,” even though the experts quoted in the footnotes declared them fakes.

65 piratedan  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 11:23:28am

I find this absolutely fascinating the amount of projection that comes out of these fuckers….

Romney was dropping his mask right and left and they think Obama was afraid of him as an opponent? Having to resort to Nixonian tactics n order to secure the win. With what ratfucking in evidence, shit it all originated from Romney himself, him on camera, saying stupid shit in front of rich people when he thought he wasn’t being observed.

The nerve of these fucking assholes to say something like this, how about you lame fuckers over on the right do a bit of self evaluation and perhaps boot up an empathy app or something and realize that people don’t like your politics because you only help rich people and folks that are racists or theological bigots.

66 HappyWarrior  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 11:24:26am

re: #62 GeneJockey

Dunno. Certainly I’d describe him as socially inept - he seemed to only be able to relate to his rich peers without coming across as clueless and/or condescending. The usual claim about ASD is lack of empathy, but that’s not true, it’s lack of ability to read the other person in real time. Mitt, OTOH, seems to lack empathy.

Yeah, you know as well as I do since your son is ASD. People say people like me and your boy lack empathy but it really is more of a lacking an ability to read people in real time than a lack of empathy for other people. I think more so than being on the spectrum, I think this is a man who’s lived a very sheltered life. Other born wealthy politicians I don’t see that from but I think and this isn’t an attack on the Mormon Church in itself here but I think Mormon culture combined with that and his own personality make him come off as someone who totally lacks empathy. He could never be a “have a beer with the guys” type of guy because of his faith.

67 Varek Raith  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 11:25:28am

Well, I created a healthcare.gov account and am stuck verifying my ID, since that page no longer exists.
Wheee.

68 makeitstop  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 11:25:56am

re: #58 GunstarGreen

There’s an interesting little documentary piece currently up on Netflix titled Park Avenue: Money, Power and the American Dream. One of the segments is an interview with a doorman at 740 Park Avenue, the kind of building where folks like the Koch brothers make residence, and he had a very revealing thing to say regarding the children of the ultra-wealthy.

I’m in the middle of reading this book about 740 Park. I’m not out of the 30s yet, but the amount of money and globe-hopping the residents of that building did - even during the Depression - is absolutely staggering.

69 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 11:26:50am

re: #64 Targetpractice

Sure didn’t. They relegated the opinions of the experts they did bother to bring on the documents to footnotes in their final report. IIRC, they declared that the final outcome was “inconclusive,” even though the experts quoted in the footnotes declared them fakes.

I seem to recall having a conversation with a dudebro, who tried to Rathersplain this weird theory that the “original” Killian memos were really real, but the “60 Minutes” producers did not have them, they only were able to view them briefly (in the TARDIS machine I suppose) and then attempted to “re-create” the “original memos” as best they could.

It sounds even stupider now than it did at the time it was being deeply, sincerely Rathersplained 9 years ago.

70 darthstar  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 11:26:57am
71 Patricia Kayden  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 11:27:16am

re: #65 piratedan

Didn’t Reince Priebus do an “autopsy”?

Also, is Conor claiming that Romney lost because President Obama spied on him? They’re always looking for excuses.

72 erik_t  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 11:27:59am

Let it not go unnoticed that the question is absurd on its face. Nixon used his political staff for spying, because they were loyal to him and would do what it took to hurt the other guy. Are we to believe that there were zero Romney backers in the presumed-rubber-stamp oversight sections of the NSA? Or are we to believe that the alleged rubber-stamp oversight sections actually do not exist at all, and the NSA operates in a way that is unlike literally every other large organization in the world? Perhaps Obama disappeared all of the Romney backers, because we might as well crank the paranoid conspiracy delusions all the way up to 11?

It’s a fundamentally stupid question in the first place.

73 Aunty Entity Dragon  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 11:28:47am

re: #58 GunstarGreen

There’s an interesting little documentary piece currently up on Netflix titled Park Avenue: Money, Power and the American Dream. One of the segments is an interview with a doorman at 740 Park Avenue, the kind of building where folks like the Koch brothers make residence, and he had a very revealing thing to say regarding the children of the ultra-wealthy.

When they’re very young, they play around with the door people, treat them like family, that sort of thing. Class doesn’t mean very much to a preschooler. But then they reach a certain age, and all of a sudden they stop having anything to do with the building employees that they used to have such a good relationship with. Suddenly they’re much more like their parents.

At some point, the kids are quite literally taught to ignore The Help, and not to associate with peons.

One wonders at what point America will tire of its de-facto aristocracy.

It wouldn’t matter, since the aristocracy is firmly entrenched and has uncontested control over all the levers of power.

There is a reason why Citicorp Bank classified the United States as a plutonomy in an investment report a few years back.

Quite literally, our society is run by…and on behalf and for the profit of…the very top tier of the wealthy.

The Citibank document stipulate that the only liability for the wealthy as that the poor can still vote, and even the rich can only vote once per person.

74 Gus  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 11:29:02am

Connx. sucks more than ever. Later.

75 Bulworth  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 11:29:38am

OT, but did anyone happen to catch the gist of what sort of Your text to link…mockery of the ACA went down at last night’s country music award show?

I can’t watch the vids because work, etc.

Anyway I can’t wait till we have a GOP prez again and the country singers can go back to lecturing us all about proper patriotism and Americanism again. //

76 HappyWarrior  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 11:30:39am

re: #72 erik_t

Let it not go unnoticed that the question is absurd on its face. Nixon used his political staff for spying, because they were loyal to him and would do what it took to hurt the other guy. Are we to believe that there were zero Romney backers in the presumed-rubber-stamp oversight sections of the NSA? Or are we to believe that the alleged rubber-stamp oversight sections actually do not exist at all, and the NSA operates in a way that is unlike literally every other large organization in the world? Perhaps Obama disappeared all of the Romney backers, because we might as well crank the paranoid conspiracy delusions all the way up to 11?

It’s a fundamentally stupid question in the first place.

Especially when you consider this, Obama’s kept and or shuffled around some Bush era intelligence people. General Clapper for instance was head of NGA(my mother’s agency) during the Bush years. And as already said, you’d also think that if Obama were Nixon Jr. like they want to think, he would have had Romney’s tax info leaked somehow. And you’re right. The Watergate burglars were Nixon’s guys. CREEP wasn’t some government agency. It was a committee to re-elect Nixon.

77 Aunty Entity Dragon  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 11:32:14am

bbl

78 GeneJockey  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 11:32:22am

re: #69 Vicious Babushka

I seem to recall having a conversation with a dudebro, who tried to Rathersplain this weird theory that the “original” Killian memos were really real, but the “60 Minutes” producers did not have them, they only were able to view them briefly (in the TARDIS machine I suppose) and then attempted to “re-create” the “original memos” as best they could.

It sounds even stupider now than it did at the time it was being deeply, sincerely Rathersplained 9 years ago.

The hypothesis I find most intriguing, though AFAIK there’s no evidence for it, is that the memos were ratfucking that was wildly more successful than originally anticipated. They brought down Dan Rather, and tarnished CBS News in the eyes of everyone, not just the Right, which had hated on them since the Cronkite days, when ‘Cronkite made us lose Vietnam’.

So somebody concocts a memo intended to get some play on CBS or other news and just add to the general ‘Liberal Media Can’t Be Trusted’ belief, and instead it goes all the way to the anchor desk.

79 Varek Raith  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 11:32:34am

Heh, seems Verizon is annoyed at my bandwidth usage. Blame steam for uninstalling all my games.

80 jaunte  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 11:35:04am

“Did the Obama Administration ever spy on Mitt Romney during the recent presidential contest?”


81 HappyWarrior  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 11:35:26am

ENDA passed 64-32 which means the R’s in the House will see that as proof it should be rejected. Sorry to sound skeptical but I trust nothing to be passed with Boehner being afraid of disobeying the TP.

82 HappyWarrior  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 11:35:55am

re: #80 jaunte

[Embedded content]

And he was right. We found out who he was and we made him a full time grandpa.

83 Charles Johnson  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 11:36:14am

re: #78 GeneJockey

I don’t know - that theory has never passed the Occam’s Razor test for me. You’d have to assume that nobody at CBS during production of the show would recognize the docs as fakes, and they were very obvious fakes.

I remain a little amazed that nobody did recognize the forgery before the show aired, but if you were planning a dirty trick it wouldn’t have been very smart to assume that would happen.

84 EmmaAnne  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 11:37:03am

re: #69 Vicious Babushka

I seem to recall having a conversation with a dudebro, who tried to Rathersplain this weird theory that the “original” Killian memos were really real, but the “60 Minutes” producers did not have them, they only were able to view them briefly (in the TARDIS machine I suppose) and then attempted to “re-create” the “original memos” as best they could.

It sounds even stupider now than it did at the time it was being deeply, sincerely Rathersplained 9 years ago.

The weirdest thing about Rathergate to me was that Dan Rather never used his (still impressive) resources to find out who forged those papers. I don’t really think he did it himself, except - why wasn’t he pissed off enough to find out who did?

85 Joanne  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 11:37:20am

re: #71 Patricia Kayden

Didn’t Reince Priebus do an “autopsy”?

Also, is Conor claiming that Romney lost because President Obama spied on him? They’re always looking for excuses.

Personal responsibility!!

86 Bulworth  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 11:38:10am

re: #81 HappyWarrior

Cooch’s loss sent the WH a “message” that ENDA is a failure and restricts are libertays. //

87 ObserverArt  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 11:39:16am

re: #17 Varek Raith

The NSA is under your bed too.

While they are down there, maybe they could clean up the dust bunnies for me, ‘kaythanks!

88 Charles Johnson  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 11:40:06am

re: #84 EmmaAnne

The weirdest thing about Rathergate to me was that Dan Rather never used his (still impressive) resources to find out who forged those papers. I don’t really think he did it himself, except - why wasn’t he pissed off enough to find out who did?

The documents came from Bill Burkett, a guy with a personal grudge against George W. Bush. When confronted he said he got them from a mythical “Lucy Ramirez,” and that he burned the originals after copying them. (Pure bullshit.)

89 GeneJockey  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 11:40:09am

re: #83 Charles Johnson

I don’t know - that theory has never passed the Occam’s Razor test for me. You’d have to assume that nobody at CBS during production of the show would recognize the docs as fakes, and they were very obvious fakes.

I remain a little amazed that nobody did recognize the forgery before the show aired, but if you were planning a dirty trick it wouldn’t have been very smart to assume that would happen.

Confirmation bias is an amazingly strong thing, though. I’ve seen it turn almost Spock-level logical thinkers into raving conspiracy theorists about AGW (for example), and I’ve watched good Scientists turn their own hypotheses inside out to avoid obvious conclusions that would tell them something they don’t want to know.

As I say, though - an intriguing hypothesis completely lacking in evidence.

90 Justanotherhuman  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 11:41:34am

Theatre of the Absurd is exactly what this crap from the libertarians is all about these days.

91 GeneJockey  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 11:41:48am

re: #88 Charles Johnson

The documents came from Bill Burkett, a guy with a personal grudge against George W. Bush. When confronted he said he got them from a mythical “Lucy Ramirez, and that he burned the originals after copying them. (Pure bullshit.)

Of course, maybe Bill Burkett is really just dumb enough to have thought it could work.

92 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 11:42:07am

re: #84 EmmaAnne

The weirdest thing about Rathergate to me was that Dan Rather never used his (still impressive) resources to find out who forged those papers. I don’t really think he did it himself, except - why wasn’t he pissed off enough to find out who did?

I think that theory I tried to describe in #69 would account for that, since Rather believed there were “real documents” out there somewhere that he was certain that somebody had actually seen, because JOURNALISM! and what was displayed on the program were only reproductions, so why was everybody freaking out over some reproductions when the “original documents” were really real, even though they no longer had access to them.

Gah. It just sounds so stupid.

93 Patricia Kayden  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 11:42:16am

re: #81 HappyWarrior

Orange has already said that he will not bring ENDA to the House because it will kill jobs by allowing THE GHEYS to file claims against businesses. The usual blah blah blah.

94 erik_t  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 11:44:21am

re: #93 Patricia Kayden

Orange has already said that he will not bring ENDA to the House because it will kill jobs by allowing THE GHEYS to file claims against businesses. The usual blah blah blah.

I’m really quite unclear on how “you can’t be fired for teh ghey” results in job losses, rather than job gains.

Even more magical thinking than usual.

95 Varek Raith  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 11:44:50am

re: #88 Charles Johnson

The documents came from Bill Burkett, a guy with a personal grudge against George W. Bush. When confronted he said he got them from a mythical “Lucy Ramirez,” and that he burned the originals after copying them. (Pure bullshit.)

Fake but accurate!111ty

96 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 11:45:23am

re: #94 erik_t

I’m really quite unclear on how “you can’t be fired for teh ghey” results in job losses, rather than job gains.

Even more magical thinking than usual.

BECAUSE SOME HETEROSEXUAL PERSON WILL BE UNEMPLOYED IF BUSINESS IS FORCED TO GIVE TEH JRRBS TO TEH GHEY!!!!!!1!!!!

97 GeneJockey  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 11:45:46am

re: #94 erik_t

I’m really quite unclear on how “you can’t be fired for teh ghey” results in job losses, rather than job gains.

Even more magical thinking than usual.

Perhaps Good Christian Job Creators will Go Galt when they learn they can’t chuck out Sodomites as God told them to?
//

98 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 11:47:35am
99 HappyWarrior  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 11:47:47am

re: #93 Patricia Kayden

Orange has already said that he will not bring ENDA to the House because it will kill jobs by allowing THE GHEYS to file claims against businesses. The usual blah blah blah.

Yeah I figured that would be the excuse. Fucking typical.

100 BongCrodny  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 11:48:01am

YOU PEOPLE HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU’RE TALKING ABOUT IF YOU THINK THE GOV’T IS NOT SPYING ON US.

WHY, ON MY STREET JUST A FEW HOUSES UP, THIS LITTLE WHITE TRUCK PARKS IN THE SAME PLACE AND AT THE SAME TIME EVERY DAY. IT DOESN’T SHOW UP ON SUNDAYS, SO I FIGURE THAT’S WHEN THE DRIVER REPORTS BACK TO HIS SUPERIORS.

I HAVEN’T QUITE FIGURED OUT WHY HE ALWAYS WEARS SHORT PANTS, HOWEVER.

101 ObserverArt  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 11:48:14am

re: #58 GunstarGreen

There’s an interesting little documentary piece currently up on Netflix titled Park Avenue: Money, Power and the American Dream. One of the segments is an interview with a doorman at 740 Park Avenue, the kind of building where folks like the Koch brothers make residence, and he had a very revealing thing to say regarding the children of the ultra-wealthy.

When they’re very young, they play around with the door people, treat them like family, that sort of thing. Class doesn’t mean very much to a preschooler. But then they reach a certain age, and all of a sudden they stop having anything to do with the building employees that they used to have such a good relationship with. Suddenly they’re much more like their parents.

At some point, the kids are quite literally taught to ignore The Help, and not to associate with peons.

One wonders at what point America will tire of its de-facto aristocracy.

I’ve been tired of it for a long time. Does that count?

102 HappyWarrior  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 11:48:15am

re: #98 Vicious Babushka

[Embedded content]

Teleprompter jokes? Homie please.

103 HappyWarrior  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 11:49:17am

re: #100 BongCrodny

YOU PEOPLE HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU’RE TALKING ABOUT IF YOU THINK THE GOV’T IS NOT SPYING ON US.

WHY, ON MY STREET JUST A FEW HOUSES UP, THIS LITTLE WHITE TRUCK PARKS IN THE SAME PLACE AND AT THE SAME TIME EVERY DAY. HE DOESN’T SHOW UP ON SUNDAYS, SO I FIGURE THAT’S WHEN THE DRIVER REPORTS BACK TO HIS SUPERIORS.

I HAVEN’T QUITE FIGURED OUT WHY HE ALWAYS WEARS SHORT PANTS, HOWEVER.

My short pants spy has been leaving the dog treats. I think they have a camera on them so the government can spy on us from inside my dog’s stomach!

104 AntonSirius  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 11:50:00am

re: #47 Aunty Entity Dragon

This this this and 10 updings with a cherry on top.

Romney truly believed it was his right to be POTUS.

.

No fair! It was our turn!!!

Rafalca, stamp your hoof. I don’t want to scuff my Blahnik.

105 Kragar  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 11:52:33am

OBJECTION!

There are no sane Libertarians.

106 ausador  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 11:53:32am

The Watergate Romneygate tapes…

NSA Log, Day 63: Romney states he supports higher taxes on limited economic segments.

NSA Log, Day 64: Romney states he is flatly against any tax increase for anyone.

NSA Log, Day 64.5: Romney states he supports tax cuts on small businesses.

NSA Log, Day 64.75: Romney states he supports increased taxes on certain small businesses.

NSA Log, Day 65: Fuck this, this guy will tell anyone listening to him anything they want to hear. Surveillance terminated as it is impossible to determine whether or not any of the statements made by the subject are in any way factual.

107 Kragar  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 11:53:49am
108 HappyWarrior  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 11:53:58am

re: #106 ausador

The Watergate Romneygate tapes…

NSA Log, Day 63: Romney states he supports higher taxes on limited economic segments.

NSA Log, Day 64: Romney states he is flatly against any tax increase for anyone.

NSA Log, Day 64.5: Romney states he supports tax cuts on small businesses.

NSA Log, Day 64.75: Romney states he supports increased taxes on certain small businesses.

NSA Log, Day 65: Fuck this, this guy will tell anyone listening to him anything they want to hear. Surveillance terminated as it is impossible to determine whether or not any of the statements made by the subject are in any way factual.

Winner.

109 Patricia Kayden  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 11:54:54am

re: #99 HappyWarrior

huffingtonpost.com

I guess Boehner would have voted against the Civil Rights Act because it allows Blacks to file discrimination claims as well. Such a nice guy.

110 Lidane  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 11:55:42am

Rebranding!

111 Eclectic Cyborg  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 11:55:54am

re: #107 Kragar

[Embedded content]

But single guys are just A-ok I guess?

And how many of these unmarried women have kids by deadbeat men who won’t step up and be fathers?

112 HappyWarrior  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 11:56:02am

re: #108 HappyWarrior

Winner.

And to expand on it
Day 83 9:00 AM, speech in rural Virginia: Romney says it’s time to close the border and deport all illegals.

Day 83: 10:30 AM: Speech in Richmond to business leaders, Romney tells business leaders he supports allowing businesses to hire illegals.

Day 83: 12:00 PM: Speech in Arlington, Me llamo Mitt, Como estas amigos.

113 Kragar  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 11:56:59am
114 Eclectic Cyborg  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 11:57:01am

re: #110 Lidane

Rebranding!

[Embedded content]

A message is completely useless if all the actions contradict is.

That would be like me shouting: “NO MORE GUN VIOLENCE!” while shooting up a strip mall.

115 Bulworth  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 11:57:09am

re: #107 Kragar

Oh look, hate radio has a new target. The unmarried womenz. /

116 HappyWarrior  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 11:57:18am

re: #109 Patricia Kayden

huffingtonpost.com

I guess Boehner would have voted against the Civil Rights Act because it allows Blacks to file discrimination claims as well. Such a nice guy.

That’s what I bring up too. “Oh, so you think it’s okay for an employer to discriminate based on sexuality so you’re fine with an employer doing the same with race huh numb nuts.” Morons. The more honest ones like Rand Paul though admit that would be fine with them.

117 Eclectic Cyborg  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 11:57:46am

re: #112 HappyWarrior

And to expand on it
Day 83 9:00 AM, speech in rural Virginia: Romney says it’s time to close the border and deport all illegals.

Day 83: 10:30 AM: Speech in Richmond to business leaders, Romney tells business leaders he supports allowing businesses to hire illegals.

Day 83: 12:00 PM: Speech in Arlington, Me llamo Mitt, Como estas amigos.

There could be a whole book of this stuff.

118 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 11:59:07am

re: #112 HappyWarrior

And to expand on it
Day 83 9:00 AM, speech in rural Virginia: Romney says it’s time to close the border and deport all illegals.

Day 83: 10:30 AM: Speech in Richmond to business leaders, Romney tells business leaders he supports allowing businesses to hire illegals.

Day 83: 12:00 PM: Speech in Arlington, Me llamo Mitt, Como estas amigos.

Which reminds me of that wretched spray tan (that he blamed on a sabotaging makeup artist) for his Univision appearance.

119 GeneJockey  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 11:59:17am

re: #111 Eclectic Cyborg

But single guys are just A-ok I guess?

And how many of these unmarried women have kids by deadbeat men who won’t step up and be fathers?

Yeah, deadbeat dads are bad. BUT BABY!!!! ALSO SLUT!!!!!!

120 HappyWarrior  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 11:59:24am

re: #115 Bulworth

Oh look, hate radio has a new target. The unmarried womenz. /

As opposed to Rush, if it weren’t for the big bad government, he’d be selling used cars in bumfuck nowhere and telling people how he got out of Nam by having a pimple on his fat ass. Go ahead Republicans though, please keep on using this stupid bigot as your voice and then act shocked when single women and women overall find your message toxic.

121 Bubblehead II  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 11:59:29am

Looks like Rand Paul has a serious case of butthurt.

Rand Paul slams Christie for post-Sandy ads

In a hearing on Superstorm Sandy relief before the Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee Wednesday, Sen. Rand Paul, R-Ky., took Housing and Urban Development Secretary Shaun Donovan to task for allowing federal relief funds to be spent on television advertising aimed at bringing tourists back to areas that were devastated by the storm. But he also pummeled freshly re-elected New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie, a fellow Republican, for appearing in those ads.

122 GeneJockey  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 12:01:01pm

re: #118 Backwoods_Sleuth

Which reminds me of that wretched spray tan (that he blamed on a sabotaging makeup artist) for his Univision appearance.

Rule Number 1 for Anglo politicians going on Univision to try and win Latino votes - DO NOT get made up darker than the hosts.

123 Lidane  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 12:02:00pm

re: #121 Bubblehead II

Looks like Rand Paul has a serious case of butthurt.

Rand Paul slams Christie for post-Sandy ads

In a hearing on Superstorm Sandy relief before the Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee Wednesday, Sen. Rand Paul, R-Ky., took Housing and Urban Development Secretary Shaun Donovan to task for allowing federal relief funds to be spent on television advertising aimed at bringing tourists back to areas that were devastated by the storm. >But he also pummeled freshly re-elected New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie, a fellow Republican, for appearing in those ads.

Because the governor of New Jersey had no vested interest in bringing people and their tourist dollars back to New Jersey.

WTF.

124 Kragar  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 12:02:06pm

re: #121 Bubblehead II

Looks like Rand Paul has a serious case of butthurt.

Rand Paul slams Christie for post-Sandy ads

In a hearing on Superstorm Sandy relief before the Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee Wednesday, Sen. Rand Paul, R-Ky., took Housing and Urban Development Secretary Shaun Donovan to task for allowing federal relief funds to be spent on television advertising aimed at bringing tourists back to areas that were devastated by the storm. >But he also pummeled freshly re-elected New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie, a fellow Republican, for appearing in those ads.

Isn’t part of relief efforts restoring the economy, which in NJ’s case mean tourism?

I guess tourism really isn’t that big a part of the economy in KY. Who the fuck wants to go there?

125 GeneJockey  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 12:02:27pm

re: #115 Bulworth

Oh look, hate radio has a new target. The unmarried womenz. /

Rush should know about unmarried women. He’s unmarried at least 3 of them, so far.

126 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 12:02:55pm

re: #122 GeneJockey

Rule Number 1 for Anglo politicians going on Univision to try and win Latino votes - DO NOT get made up darker than the hosts.

Also, IIRC, at first the Romney camp claimed it was just a regular tan and they provided PROOF!!! — photos of the entire group at the beach in the hot Florida sun…

::facepalm::

127 HappyWarrior  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 12:03:18pm

re: #121 Bubblehead II

Looks like Rand Paul has a serious case of butthurt.

Rand Paul slams Christie for post-Sandy ads

In a hearing on Superstorm Sandy relief before the Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee Wednesday, Sen. Rand Paul, R-Ky., took Housing and Urban Development Secretary Shaun Donovan to task for allowing federal relief funds to be spent on television advertising aimed at bringing tourists back to areas that were devastated by the storm. >But he also pummeled freshly re-elected New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie, a fellow Republican, for appearing in those ads.

If I were a callous asshole(I’m not(, I’d tell the feds to tell Rand to go fuck himself if Kentucky ever gets hit by a large tornado. This guy’s a fucking child.

128 HappyWarrior  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 12:04:22pm

re: #124 Kragar

Isn’t part of relief efforts restoring the economy, which in NJ’s case mean tourism?

I guess tourism really isn’t that big a part of the economy in KY. Who the fuck wants to go there?

Yeah but who cares about pesky facts when you’re Rand Paul who learned everything he knows about macroeconomics from Papa and Ludwig von Mises.

129 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 12:04:59pm

re: #122 GeneJockey

Rule Number 1 for Anglo politicians going on Univision to try and win Latino votes - DO NOT get made up darker than the hosts.

Nothing looks stupider than guys on TV with the bake-on or spray-on tans, and the white skin around their eyes where they had to wear the protective goggles.

130 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 12:05:31pm

re: #127 HappyWarrior

If I were a callous asshole(I’m not(, I’d tell the feds to tell Rand to go fuck himself if Kentucky ever gets hit by a large tornado. This guy’s a fucking child.

Actually, Rand Paul doesn’t believe in disaster handouts, even for Kentucky (which does get a lot of natural disaters). He didn’t hide that fact at all when he was running for Senate, which makes me shake my head as to why so many people actually voted for him.

131 CarolJ  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 12:06:54pm

re: #121 Bubblehead II

Geez, Rand. Campaigning. How its supposed to work.

About those Rather docs: I think the truth is split in the middle on this one. The docs may not be real, but I think the basic story is. Bush blew off his Reserve obligations: perhaps he was too drunk or high, perhaps he knew he would get bailed out somehow. It even could be some sort of mental break. I suspect the docs were destroyed a long time ago. His group was the elite of Texas (National Guard) and anything embarassing was probably purged to protect the guilty (or the guilty’s political career, if those folks wanted one).
It’s not as if those guys ever got something noteworthy like a Purple Heart, or needed to ever have federal benefits, so to the old file cabinet or the old shredder they went.

132 HappyWarrior  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 12:06:55pm

re: #130 Backwoods_Sleuth

Actually, Rand Paul doesn’t believe in disaster handouts, even for Kentucky (which does get a lot of natural disaters). He didn’t hide that fact at all when he was running for Senate, which makes me shake my head as to why so many people actually voted for him.

True. I’m continued to be amazed how this guy is a US Senator let alone an elected official period.

133 Kragar  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 12:07:26pm

re: #130 Backwoods_Sleuth

Actually, Rand Paul doesn’t believe in disaster handouts, even for Kentucky (which does get a lot of natural disaters). He didn’t hide that fact at all when he was running for Senate, which makes me shake my head as to why so many people actually voted for him.

“In the event of Emergency, I’ll tell you to fuck off, you greedy MOOCHERS!”

“He sounds nice. Lets vote for him.”

134 RealityBasedSteve  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 12:07:31pm

re: #26 GeneJockey

Hey, how many Americans can say they own a world class athlete? Not many, at least not since since 1865!

Thanks a bunch… now I’ve got chocolate cookie spew to try and get off my screen.

RBS

135 Bubblehead II  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 12:08:24pm

re: #123 Lidane

re: #124 Kragar

re: #127 HappyWarrior

I think the main source of Pauls butthurt is that Christie is getting face time in adds that are being paid for by a Government grant (that he was against) and Christie *may* run for President in 2016.

“Some of these ads, people running for office put their mug all over these ads while they’re in the middle of a political campaign. In New Jersey, $25 million was spent on ads that included somebody running for political office. Do ya’ think there might be a conflict of interest of there?” Paul asked. “You know, that’s a real problem.

136 HappyWarrior  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 12:09:20pm

I imagine Rand gets heavily targeted in 2016. Presidential election year which could play to either his or his opponent’s advantage but I imagine the DSCC has their eyes on him. It’s a good thing he’s an egotistical maniac because it’s going to be easy to paint him as a guy who cares more about being a right wing rock star than someone who cares about the needs of his constituents.

137 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 12:09:26pm

WIN OF THE DAY

138 Dr Lizardo  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 12:10:46pm

re: #137 Vicious Babushka

WIN OF THE DAY

[Embedded content]

Spockthulhu.

139 polisurgist  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 12:12:17pm

Actually, he manages to make one point I find sane, buried deep in there:

Forget about Alexander. Let’s think about someone much lower in the surveillance state hierarchy: Edward Snowden. As we know, Snowden broke protocol and violated his promise to keep classified information secret because his conscience demanded it: He believed that he was acting for the greater good; his critics have called him a narcissist for taking it upon himself to violate rules and laws he’d agreed to obey.

It hits on what I consider to be the biggest problem with the NSA: they hired Snowden in first place and he “got away” (to some extent) with leaking it all, so I am a little concerned about who else might be just as willing to violate their procedure.

140 Lidane  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 12:12:21pm

re: #137 Vicious Babushka

141 Kragar  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 12:12:27pm
142 EmmaAnne  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 12:13:29pm

re: #88 Charles Johnson

The documents came from Bill Burkett, a guy with a personal grudge against George W. Bush. When confronted he said he got them from a mythical “Lucy Ramirez,” and that he burned the originals after copying them. (Pure bullshit.)

Ah thanks. I hadn’t followed the story close enough - didn’t know about the “I burned the originals” story. Is he sure his dog didn’t eat them?

143 Lidane  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 12:14:24pm

re: #141 Kragar

Steve King is also busy swearing up and down that Saddam really did buy uranium from Niger.

144 HappyWarrior  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 12:16:23pm

re: #141 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Yeah because I don’t think this country should be a theocracy like Steve-O does it means I hate America. I’m not the one who acts like immigrants are all drug mules, pal. But thanks for playing and I’m going to love helping my sister-in-law become an American citizen even more because of dimwits like you who think anyone who isn’t a straight white conservative Christian is a terrorist.

145 HappyWarrior  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 12:17:45pm

re: #143 Lidane

Steve King is also busy swearing up and down that Saddam really did buy uranium from Niger.

It makes you wonder about what goes on behind closed doors at caucus meetings. Boehner apparently had to tell Gohmert who was protesting an already passed bill that said bill had already been passed. i magine talking to guys like King, Gohmert, Bachmann, Stockman, and many of the others is like talking to a brickwall for the more relatively sensible members of the R caucus.

146 Kragar  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 12:20:31pm
147 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 12:20:40pm

re: #62 GeneJockey

Dunno. Certainly I’d describe him as socially inept - he seemed to only be able to relate to his rich peers without coming across as clueless and/or condescending. The usual claim about ASD is lack of empathy, but that’s not true, it’s lack of ability to read the other person in real time. Mitt, OTOH, seems to lack empathy.

That chip will be installed in Version 10 as part of the analysis of why versions 1-9 kept being defeated.
;p

148 Dr Lizardo  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 12:23:55pm

Meanwhile, Costco beats Wall Street expectations.

Costco’s sales at stores open at least a year rose 3 percent in October, beating Wall Street’s expectations.

Analysts surveyed by Thomson Reuters predicted a 2.6 percent increase for the wholesale club operator.

katu.com

149 Sol Berdinowitz  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 12:23:59pm

re: #147 Feline Fearless Leader

That chip will be installed in Version 10 as part of the analysis of why versions 1-9 kept being defeated.
;p

He tells us that he only did it as a favor to his party when he saw how weak the field of candidates was…and in the end, he was their best choice.

150 HappyWarrior  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 12:24:07pm

re: #146 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Somewhere in India, Hindu Bryan Fischer is mad because Obama made nice with those filthy Muslims. This guy just really pines for the days of old where being a religious or sexual minority meant he could scorn them to his heart’s content.

151 Lidane  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 12:24:14pm

re: #145 HappyWarrior

It makes you wonder about what goes on behind closed doors at caucus meetings.

I’m pretty sure we got a glimpse of what goes on behind closed doors during the shutdown. Boehner gets progressively drunker as the days drag on and the teabaggers get even more unreasonable until they’re forced to make a decision on something.

152 Kragar  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 12:24:35pm

Fucking Tau.

Image: 2c7.png

153 BongCrodny  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 12:24:43pm

re: #123 Lidane

Because the governor of New Jersey had no vested interest in bringing people and their tourist dollars back to New Jersey.

WTF.

I’m no fan of Christie, but I’m looking forward to the 2016 debates. I think Christie’s going to mop the floor with some Aqua Buddha.

154 ObserverArt  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 12:25:13pm

re: #65 piratedan

I find this absolutely fascinating the amount of projection that comes out of these fuckers….

Romney was dropping his mask right and left and they think Obama was afraid of him as an opponent? Having to resort to Nixonian tactics n order to secure the win. With what ratfucking in evidence, shit it all originated from Romney himself, him on camera, saying stupid shit in front of rich people when he thought he wasn’t being observed.

The nerve of these fucking assholes to say something like this, how about you lame fuckers over on the right do a bit of self evaluation and perhaps boot up an empathy app or something and realize that people don’t like your politics because you only help rich people and folks that are racists or theological bigots.

I don’t think he ever had the mask on. I really thought he never saw any problem with how he came off. All of it a part of the arrogance that is a big part of him and his total disregard for others. That is why he was always so flippant. The guy had no internal meter so never knew when to shut it down or as you say, take off the mask.

155 CarolJ  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 12:25:18pm

re: #97 GeneJockey

Maybe Good Christian busybodies can’t hide bigotry behind vague statements like “moral fitness” anymore.

Job protections mean most to people at both ends of the job spectrum: the student starting out, and the person close to the end. The student doesn’t have to settle for a lesser career or job just to be able to live without fear, and the person nearing a pension doesn’t have to fear being outed or suspected will lead to devastating poverty in retirement.

156 HappyWarrior  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 12:25:20pm

re: #151 Lidane

I’m pretty sure we got a glimpse of what goes on behind closed doors during the shutdown. Boehner gets progressively drunker as the days drag on and the teabaggers get even more unreasonable until they’re forced to make a decision on something.

Makes me glad as someone often in the nation’s capital that our bars were refusing to sell to people with Member of Congress nametags.

157 HappyWarrior  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 12:27:23pm

What Fischer doesn’t get- when Obama calls out homophobia. He’s calling out the homophobia that exists in Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, and other religions too.

158 GeneJockey  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 12:27:40pm

re: #148 Dr Lizardo

Meanwhile, Costco beats Wall Street expectations.

katu.com

Unpossible! Costco doesn’t treat their employees like dirt! Retail is only profitable if you employ the pre-1860 Southern model of employee relations!

159 Lidane  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 12:28:11pm
160 HappyWarrior  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 12:28:20pm

re: #148 Dr Lizardo

Meanwhile, Costco beats Wall Street expectations.

katu.com

They have a good business model. I’ve thought so ever since I relished a weekend trip to Costco for samples as a kid.

161 lawhawk  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 12:28:21pm

re: #123 Lidane

Because the governor of New Jersey had no vested interest in bringing people and their tourist dollars back to New Jersey.

WTF.

When the Jersey Shore and tourism are a huge part of the state’s economy, it’s the only prudent thing to do - to get out there and try to get people back into NJ and visiting the Shore, pouring their tourism dollars into the distressed communities so that folks have money coming in that they can also use to help fix up their own homes and businesses, and in turn help other businesses that rely on the money - spreading it throughout the local economy.

162 HappyWarrior  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 12:28:51pm

re: #159 Lidane

[Embedded content]

And they said miss me yet, to which I again responded hell fucking no.

163 Dr Lizardo  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 12:30:00pm

re: #158 GeneJockey

Unpossible! Costco doesn’t treat their employees like dirt! Retail is only profitable if you employ the pre-1860 Southern model of employee relations!

Heh. Yep, Costco is proof that you can treat your employees like human beings and still be profitable.

Wingnuts must hate the place, I’m sure.

164 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 12:30:22pm

re: #92 Vicious Babushka

I think that theory I tried to describe in #69 would account for that, since Rather believed there were “real documents” out there somewhere that he was certain that somebody had actually seen, because JOURNALISM! and what was displayed on the program were only reproductions, so why was everybody freaking out over some reproductions when the “original documents” were really real, even though they no longer had access to them.

Gah. It just sounds so stupid.

The fabulous “fake, but accurate” trap.

165 Dr Lizardo  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 12:30:50pm

re: #160 HappyWarrior

They have a good business model. I’ve thought so ever since I relished a weekend trip to Costco for samples as a kid.

I enjoyed going shopping at Costco back when I lived in the states.

166 Justanotherhuman  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 12:30:54pm

re: #159 Lidane

[Embedded content]

I feel very vindicated now when I stated that GWB wasn’t fit to be president in 2000.

167 HappyWarrior  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 12:31:21pm

re: #163 Dr Lizardo

Heh. Yep, Costco is proof that you can treat your employees like human beings and still be profitable.

Wingnuts must hate the place, I’m sure.

The idiots probably think it’s Marxist the way they think anyone think else that they dislike is Marxist. Companies like Costco show me the problem isn’t capitalism, it’s people using capitalism as an excuse for greed and to treat their employees like shit that is the problem that you see in Wal-Mart for example.

168 jaunte  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 12:31:42pm

re: #159 Lidane

Robert Morris, pastor of Gateway Church in Dallas, which Beck attends, introduced Beck as a “prophet” at the event. Morris told the crowd that his church has supported MJBI because “when we do this, the Bible tells us, it’s going to change the whole world. That it’s going to hasten the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ, and it’s going to bring about worldwide revival.”

When asked how the MJBI managed to secure Bush to keynote its fundraiser, Stephenson cited its track record of drawing influential speakers, pointing to the appearance by Beck.

Talk about damning with faint praise.

169 makeitstop  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 12:31:49pm

re: #159 Lidane

[Embedded content]

Oh, Dubya, you were doing so well with that ‘keeping out of the public eye’ thing for a while there.

170 HappyWarrior  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 12:33:54pm

re: #169 makeitstop

Oh, Dubya, you were doing so well with that ‘keeping out of the public eye’ thing for a while there.

Yeah I almost thought “Man he looks good compared to the others.” I really wish these evangelicals groups would leave Jewish people the hell alone. IF they want to find Christ, they’ll make that decision on their own. But if they want to stay Jewish too, let them.

171 Kragar  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 12:34:44pm
172 Lidane  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 12:35:17pm

re: #166 Justanotherhuman

I feel very vindicated now when I stated that GWB wasn’t fit to be president in 2000.

Seriously. I was telling everyone I could back in 2000 that the only reason he got elected governor here was his name and that he wasn’t fit to be in the White House. He still got elected anyway. Oh well.

173 HappyWarrior  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 12:36:45pm

I had a bad feeling about GWB for the record after I read about how executions were carried out in Texas. I was only 12 and a half at the time but something about the guy rubbed me the wrong way. Plus he was too proud of being a non-intellectual. For a president’s son, I saw that as a red flag.

174 BongCrodny  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 12:36:49pm

re: #163 Dr Lizardo

Heh. Yep, Costco is proof that you can treat your employees like human beings and still be profitable.

Wingnuts must hate the place, I’m sure.

I seem to remember reading a few years back that some Wall Street analysts had downgraded Costco because they paid their employees too much money.

Anyone else remember that?

175 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 12:37:59pm

re: #153 BongCrodny

I’m no fan of Christie, but I’m looking forward to the 2016 debates. I think Christie’s going to mop the floor with some Aqua Buddha.

It’s also a dessert topping!
:p

176 Justanotherhuman  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 12:40:04pm

Well, wouldn’t you have thought someone would have seen something that huge by now, at least, from a ship or plane?

NOAA: No giant floating island of tsunami debris

hosted.ap.org

177 Schadenboner  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 12:41:43pm

re: #171 Kragar

[Embedded content]

In what world is that not incitement to the violence he sanctimoniously pretends to oppose? Seriously…

178 HappyWarrior  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 12:42:17pm

re: #177 Schadenboner

In what world is that not incitement to the violence he sanctimoniously pretends to oppose? Seriously…

The same where he’s a kindly man and Obama is a big mean tyrant?

179 Schadenboner  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 12:43:03pm

re: #178 HappyWarrior

The same where he’s a kindly man and Obama is a big mean tyrant?

Oh. Psychoville Alabama!

180 HappyWarrior  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 12:43:39pm

re: #179 Schadenboner

Oh. Psychoville Alabama!

Idaho in his case but yeah.

181 Schadenboner  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 12:44:39pm

re: #180 HappyWarrior

Idaho in his case but yeah.

Ok. Cold Alabama.

182 Eclectic Cyborg  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 12:46:23pm

OT: Been watching an excellent documentary on Netflix about TWA 800.

183 lawhawk  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 12:46:57pm

Super. Glenn Beck is calling on the rest of NYS to secede from NYC - before it turns into the next Detroit.

Once again, you’ve got an idiot who doesn’t understand that the state’s budget is derived mostly from the 8 million who live in NYC (and the few million more who live on LI). When Wall Street does well, the state’s budget does well. When it doesnt? Things can look bleak.

So if you’re the rest of the state, wipe out the City’s (and LI) contributions and you’d be little better off than states that are barely able to provide for their residents.

Heck, would he be for NYC dropping away from the rest of the state? If it does, it would be bigger than 37/38 states, and would have far more say on political policy than at present. Oh wait, when you phrase it like that…. /

184 Kragar  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 12:47:10pm
185 Schadenboner  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 12:49:23pm

re: #174 BongCrodny

I seem to remember reading a few years back that some Wall Street analysts had downgraded Costco because they paid their employees too much money.

Anyone else remember that?

I love Costco, but I always feel like an ugly American (albeit, one among many others) when I walk out of there with 50 pounds of something-or-other.

186 HappyWarrior  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 12:49:47pm

re: #183 lawhawk

Super. Glenn Beck is calling on the rest of NYS to secede from NYC - before it turns into the next Detroit.

Once again, you’ve got an idiot who doesn’t understand that the state’s budget is derived mostly from the 8 million who live in NYC (and the few million more who live on LI). When Wall Street does well, the state’s budget does well. When it doesnt? Things can look bleak.

So if you’re the rest of the state, wipe out the City’s (and LI) contributions and you’d be little better off than states that are barely able to provide for their residents.

Heck, would he be for NYC dropping away from the rest of the state? If it does, it would be bigger than 37/38 states, and would have far more say on political policy than at present. Oh wait, when you phrase it like that…. /

Because they’ll listen to you, a man who mocked their state when they got hit by a hurricane.

187 Kragar  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 12:51:14pm
188 Jack Burton  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 12:53:04pm

re: #187 Kragar

[Embedded content]

He either just had a conversation with Bugs Bunny, or William Shatner thought he was an android.

189 Mike Lamb  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 12:53:08pm

re: #185 Schadenboner

I love Costco, but I always feel like an ugly American (albeit, one among many others) when I walk out of there with 50 pounds of something-or-other.

My biggest beef with Costco is the packaging. Everything has about 8 layers of wrapping, boxes, etc. It’s very wasteful, and somewhat surprising for a pretty progressive company.

190 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 12:54:58pm

re: #187 Kragar

[Embedded content]

And that’s why LIBERALS are all rabidly anti-abortion…no exceptions!!11!!!

derp….

191 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 12:55:44pm

re: #183 lawhawk

Super. Glenn Beck is calling on the rest of NYS to secede from NYC - before it turns into the next Detroit.

Once again, you’ve got an idiot who doesn’t understand that the state’s budget is derived mostly from the 8 million who live in NYC (and the few million more who live on LI). When Wall Street does well, the state’s budget does well. When it doesnt? Things can look bleak.

So if you’re the rest of the state, wipe out the City’s (and LI) contributions and you’d be little better off than states that are barely able to provide for their residents.

Heck, would he be for NYC dropping away from the rest of the state? If it does, it would be bigger than 37/38 states, and would have far more say on political policy than at present. Oh wait, when you phrase it like that…. /

…it sounds like Singapore?
:)

192 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 12:57:32pm

re: #183 lawhawk

Super. Glenn Beck is calling on the rest of NYS to secede from NYC - before it turns into the next Detroit./

From the link:

Beck struggled to watch de Blasio’s entire victory speech on air, punctuating various parts by waxing poetic over the last “strongman” mayor, Rudy Giuliani (“Somebody who’s gonna take care of them”), trembling at the scourge of “progressivism,” and tsk-tsking de Blasio for thinking inequality is an important issue. Why couldn’t we have just listened to Beck and avoided this hellscape reality which we now face? We have no excuses:

Rudy was a nanny stater?
Who knew???
/

193 HappyWarrior  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 12:59:39pm

re: #192 Backwoods_Sleuth

From the link:

Rudy was a nanny stater?
Who knew???
/

And what’s more, he’s asking for a nanny stater. And I think the only thing Beck knows about Giuliani is he was mayor of NYC when 9/11 happened and lol at Rudy being the “scrounge” of progressivism. Besides, I thought Glenn was a “libertarian” Oh wait no, he’s just an ultra right winger in denial.

194 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 1:01:46pm

And Fox is hating on de Blasio (yes, I know you are all just as shocked as I am…)

Fox Pundits Terribly Upset That ‘Comrade Bill de Blasio’ Might Raise Taxes on Rich New Yorkers

195 GeneJockey  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 1:02:52pm

re: #187 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Women don’t need educations! It gets in the way of finding a husband, because no REAL MAN likes a woman who thinks she’s smarter than he is, and he DEFINITELY doesn’t want a woman who IS smarter than he is!!!

196 HappyWarrior  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 1:03:38pm

re: #194 Backwoods_Sleuth

And Fox is hating on de Blasio (yes, I know you are all just as shocked as I am…)

Fox Pundits Terribly Upset That ‘Comrade Bill de Blasio’ Might Raise Taxes on Rich New Yorkers

Comrade Reagan did too. Difference is though de Blasio isn’t pretending to be something he’s not. And I get a kick out of them calling him comrade. The guy’s role model is LaGuardia.

197 The Ghost of a Flea  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 1:18:40pm

re: #183 lawhawk

Super. Glenn Beck is calling on the rest of NYS to secede from NYC - before it turns into the next Detroit.

Once again, you’ve got an idiot who doesn’t understand that the state’s budget is derived mostly from the 8 million who live in NYC (and the few million more who live on LI). When Wall Street does well, the state’s budget does well. When it doesnt? Things can look bleak.

So if you’re the rest of the state, wipe out the City’s (and LI) contributions and you’d be little better off than states that are barely able to provide for their residents.

Heck, would he be for NYC dropping away from the rest of the state? If it does, it would be bigger than 37/38 states, and would have far more say on political policy than at present. Oh wait, when you phrase it like that…. /

I read stuff like this and think back to something I read by Yehuda Bauer (I think?) about the origins of antisemitism. That antisemitism in Christianity was inevitable, since the younger religion’s legitimacy was directly tied to either crushing or appropriating Jewish identity.

The Messianic Jewish movement (which, notably, is more about Christians changing their self-identification than Jews converting) in the US is an eery embodiment of that. They’re claiming to be the “real” Jews in a theological sense, but also appropriating the culture, because, hey, they’re the “real” Jews, so why not blow shofar and cook Yiddish food. Creepy. Not as creepy as the British Israelis, but close.

198 Patricia Kayden  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 1:21:41pm

re: #194 Backwoods_Sleuth

And I’m sure the Black wife and biracial children aren’t helping.

199 freetoken  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 1:24:12pm

Philippines about to be hit by eye of a very intense typhoon:

Image: avn-animated.gif

200 freetoken  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 1:28:40pm

From Dr. Masters:

Super Typhoon Haiyan is one of the most intense tropical cyclones in world history, with sustained winds an incredible 190 mph, gusting to 230 mph, said the Joint Typhoon Warning Center in their 15 UTC (10 am EST) November 7, 2013 advisory. Officially, the strongest tropical cyclone in world history was Super Typhoon Nancy of 1961, with sustained winds of 215 mph. However, it is now recognized (Black 1992) that the maximum sustained winds estimated for typhoons during the 1940s to 1960s were too strong. Since 1969, only three tropical cyclones have equaled Haiyan’s 190 mph sustained winds—the Western Pacific’s Super Typhoon Tip of 1979, the Atlantic’s Hurricane Camille of 1969, and the Atlantic’s Hurricane Allen of 1980. All three of these storms had a hurricane hunter aircraft inside of them to measure their top winds, but Haiyan’s winds were estimated using only satellite images, making its intensity estimate of lower confidence. Some interpretations of satellite intensity estimates suggest that there may have been two super typhoons stronger than Tip—Super Typhoon Gay of 1992, and Super Typhoon Angela of 1995. We don’t have any measurements of Haiyan’s central pressure, but it may be close to the all-time record of 870 mb set by Super Typhoon Tip. The Japan Meteorological Agency estimated Haiyan’s central pressure at 895 mb at 12 UTC (7 am EST) November 7, 2013. Haiyan has the most spectacular appearance I’ve ever seen on satellite loops, with a prominent eye surrounded by a huge, impenetrable-looking mass of intense eyewall thunderstorms with tops that reach into the lower stratosphere. With landfall expected to occur by 21 UTC (4 pm EST) on Thursday, Haiyan doesn’t have time to weaken much before landfall, and will likely hit the Philippines at Category 5 strength.

201 Eventual Carrion  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 1:28:51pm

re: #141 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Well Steve, I think you hate this country because of the way you think about it.

202 darthstar  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 1:30:47pm

Couldn’t happen to a nicer network.

203 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 1:32:09pm

re: #199 freetoken

Philippines about to be hit by eye of a very intense typhoon:

Image: avn-animated.gif

You can’t get hit with the eye. The eye doesn’t hit anything. The eye is the calm part. It’s going to get hit with all the stuff around the eye.

204 Schadenboner  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 1:33:43pm

re: #197 The Ghost of a Flea

I read stuff like this and think back to something I read by Yehuda Bauer (I think?) about the origins of antisemitism. That antisemitism in Christianity was inevitable, since the younger religion’s legitimacy was directly tied to either crushing or appropriating Jewish identity.

The Messianic Jewish movement (which, notably, is more about Christians changing their self-identification than Jews converting) in the US is an eery embodiment of that. They’re claiming to be the “real” Jews in a theological sense, but also appropriating the culture, because, hey, they’re the “real” Jews, so why not blow shofar and cook Yiddish food. Creepy. Not as creepy as the British Israelis, but close.

As someone who went the other way (Catholic -> Jewish, because reasons) I’ve always wondered how the Messianics get around the whole trinity thing (and yes, I do know that christian unitarianism was a thing, but I’m pretty sure the J4Js know no such thing).

But not enough to actually ask one because you’re right: they skew creepy.

205 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 1:35:05pm

re: #198 Patricia Kayden

And I’m sure the Black wife and biracial children aren’t helping.

well, that’s just a bonus for those who are freaking out.

206 freetoken  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 1:35:59pm

Someone is claiming that the current estimate of the minimum pressure inside Haiyan has dropped to 858mb, estimated from satellite. If that is indeed the pressure, then it is a record. However, the problem is these are estimates based on wind speed, not direct measurements.

207 Charles Johnson  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 1:36:10pm
208 Charles Johnson  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 1:36:20pm
209 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 1:36:47pm

re: #206 freetoken

Someone is claiming that the current estimate of the minimum pressure inside Haiyan has dropped to 858mb, estimated from satellite. If that is indeed the pressure, then it is a record. However, the problem is these are estimates based on wind speed, not direct measurements.

wow, that is one huge pressure indicator.

210 Aunty Entity Dragon  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 1:36:59pm

re: #173 HappyWarrior

I had a bad feeling about GWB for the record after I read about how executions were carried out in Texas. I was only 12 and a half at the time but something about the guy rubbed me the wrong way. Plus he was too proud of being a non-intellectual. For a president’s son, I saw that as a red flag.

Exactly. I read about some hideously flippant remarks he made about Karla Faye Tucker when she made her last appeal before execution…and I knew that something was really off about Dubya. I voted for him anyway…,and I have sincerely regretted it. My first instinct was right: He was not fit for the job.

Regardless of how anyone feels about her crime and how she lived her life on Death Row after her conviction (it was widely reported that the prison staff was deeply upset at her impending execution. She married the prison chaplain on the eve of her death)…Bush should have had the minimal decorum to actually treat that part of his job with at least a modicum of fucking decency. Instead, he sneered about the appeal on the campaign bus and derided the notion of death row clemency appeals while the press corps listened. His spokesmen the next day tried to desperately backpeddle the incident and claimed that the governor took appeals very seriously.

Not so much.

211 Charles Johnson  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 1:39:03pm
212 Aunty Entity Dragon  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 1:40:26pm

re: #211 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

I did ice climbing in Yosemite back when I had a fully functioning body. :) God, I love that park.

213 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 1:40:44pm

re: #211 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

No, thank you.
Just. No.

214 wrenchwench  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 1:41:46pm

re: #213 Backwoods_Sleuth

No, thank you.
Just. No.

Ditto.

I can look at the photo, so I’m better than I used to be.

215 Bubblehead II  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 1:42:21pm

re: #211 Charles Johnson

I have problems climbing up a 8ft ladder, no fing way you would ever get me out on that ledge.

216 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 1:42:42pm

re: #214 wrenchwench

Ditto.

I can look at the photo, so I’m better than I used to be.

Know that feeling…

217 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 1:42:57pm

re: #211 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

I think I’m going to be sick… shudder.

218 freetoken  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 1:43:01pm

Tropical weather blogger Levi Cowan has made an animated gif of Haiyan at its peak, showing the nearly perfectly circular eye wall:

Image: haiyan_IR_2.gif

219 GeneJockey  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 1:43:02pm

re: #213 Backwoods_Sleuth

No, thank you.
Just. No.

Yeah. Absolutely not the slightest interest in ever doing that.

220 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 1:45:31pm

re: #210 Aunty Entity Dragon

Exactly. I read about some hideously flippant remarks he made about Karla Faye Tucker when she made her last appeal before execution…and I knew that something was really off about Dubya. I voted for him anyway…,and I have sincerely regretted it. My first instinct was right: He was not fit for the job.

Regardless of how anyone feels about her crime and how she lived her life on Death Row after her conviction (it was widely reported that the prison staff was deeply upset at her impending execution. She married the prison chaplain on the eve of her death)…Bush should have had the minimal decency to actually treat that part of his job with at least a modicum of fucking decency. Instead, he sneered about the appeal on the campaign bus and derided the notion of death row clemency appeals while the press corps listened. His spokesmen the next day tried to desperately backpeddle the incident and claimed that the governor took appeals very seriously.

Not so much.

He got through Yale, so I don’t think he was a complete idiot. But he seemed to absorb the “folksy good ol’ boy” facade and eventually turn into it.

I think it might key to too much self-confidence about himself and his place in the world. No drive to self-improvement, and much too complacent about decisions and their consequences. Which led to way too much trust to hand things off to his “team” to run to their heart’s content without any desire for serious oversight. Which, of course, was perfect for Cheney.

And he appears to have slept too well while in the White House. You want your POTUS to be at least a little uneasy about decisions and on-going challenges. (Though that is also probably what ages the heck out of them.)

221 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 1:45:38pm

re: #219 GeneJockey

Yeah. Absolutely not the slightest interest in every doing that.

Funny thing is, I used to be absolutely fearless about stuff like that.
But, I was a teenager then and didn’t know better…

222 piratedan  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 1:46:23pm

re: #211 Charles Johnson

I dunno, scatter some bird feed and then put the Republican clown show caucus out there and take bets…. could sell a lot of popcorn….

223 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 1:50:49pm

Another link for Haiyan

Super typhoon Haiyan just broke all scientific intensity scales

With sustained winds of 190mph (305km/h) and staggering gusts of 230mph (370km/h), its “intensity has actually ticked slightly above the maximum to 8.1 on an 8.0 scale.” Update: It broke 235mph.

224 ObserverArt  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 1:53:47pm

Ooooooh. I feel a strong pull downward!!!

Anyone remember those old stereo Viewmasters? Our family had one and one of the photo reels was of the Grand Canyon. I loved to look at the images, but again had that strong feeling of downward. My favorite was a guy sitting on a precipice and the spatial feeling of him out in the air with nothing around him was like early childhood drugs.

225 freetoken  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 1:55:41pm

re: #223 Backwoods_Sleuth

Yeah, it’s not wanting to stay on the chart:

Image: 2013WP31_MPSWMSLP_201311071800.GIF

226 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 1:56:18pm

re: #225 freetoken

Yeah, it’s not wanting to stay on the chart:

Image: 2013WP31_MPSWMSLP_201311071800.GIF

yep. It’s absolutely stunning.

227 Ian G.  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 1:59:55pm

re: #211 Charles Johnson

Yeah, just looking at that photo makes me dizzy.

228 freetoken  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 2:00:17pm

Sign of the times: The once staid Nature Publishing Group now runs headlines more reminiscent of National Inquirer:


Fountain-of-youth gene unleashes healing power

229 Eventual Carrion  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 2:00:31pm

re: #224 ObserverArt

Ooooooh. I feel a strong pull downward!!!

Anyone remember those old stereo Viewmasters? Our family had one and one of the photo reels was of the Grand Canyon. I loved to look at the images, but again had that strong feeling of downward. My favorite was a guy sitting on a precipice and the spatial feeling of him out in the air with nothing around him was like early childhood drugs.

A few yeas ago I walked out on this. The guy I was there with refused.

230 freetoken  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 2:02:31pm

Have we finally found the cure for pierced ears?

From the aforementioned Nature link:

Mice that had been genetically engineered to develop tumours failed to do so. Instead, the animals grew up to be huge and very hairy. And when the tips of the pups’ toes were clipped off in a routine tagging procedure, they often grew back.


What was different about these mice was that they carried a protein, Lin28a, which is generally produced only in developing embryos. Lin28a has already garnered attention for its involvement in the functioning of stem cells and in cancer. A study published today in Cell1 now shows that this protein can improve tissue repair — even in adults. In mice genetically modified to produce the protein throughout their lives, the animals’ hair grew faster than normal and puncture wounds in their ears healed almost completely.

[…]

231 makeitstop  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 2:02:35pm

re: #211 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

No. Just, no.

232 erik_t  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 2:02:40pm

re: #229 Eventual Carrion

A few yeas ago I walked out on this. The guy I was there with refused.

I can generally handle anything man-made, although it’s very much a force-yourself-to-do-this sort of adventure. Allow (force) one’s trust in engineering to overpower primal fear, just like you do any time you get into an automobile or airplane.

That ledge up there… no no no no no no no no no no no.

233 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 2:02:59pm

re: #176 Justanotherhuman

Well, wouldn’t you have thought someone would have seen something that huge by now, at least, from a ship or plane?

NOAA: No giant floating island of tsunami debris

hosted.ap.org

Well, there is the Great Pacific Garbage Island.

234 Ian G.  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 2:03:57pm

re: #194 Backwoods_Sleuth

And Fox is hating on de Blasio (yes, I know you are all just as shocked as I am…)

Fox Pundits Terribly Upset That ‘Comrade Bill de Blasio’ Might Raise Taxes on Rich New Yorkers

I wasn’t the biggest DeBlasio supporter (I went for Quinn in the primary), but I knew I would get to enjoy sweet, sweet wingnut tears when he won, so that was good.

Also, if Glenn Beck wants to find someplace like Detroit in New York State, he’d probably do better looking elsewhere than NYC. Like Buffalo. Of course, Buffalo’s comeback will probably be because of world-class medical research facilities and higher ed, which (surprise!) won’t get quite the same funding if upstate seceded and no longer had the tax dollars from the NYC economic engine to drive it.

235 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 2:04:03pm

re: #229 Eventual Carrion

A few yeas ago I walked out on this. The guy I was there with refused.

I remember reading several articles about that and thought “sorry, my brain says it’s perfectly safe and it’s an amazing view, but my guts were saying ‘hell NOOOOO!!!!”

236 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 2:04:11pm

re: #23 gwangung

Cripes. I bet we’ll have a lot of dim bulbs conflating “spying” with opposition research. I mean, what minimally intelligent businessman or political DOESN’T do competitive intelligence on the opposition?

The dudebros don’t care, the dudebros don’t give a shit. All they care about is getting what they want when they want it. Its privileged ego run rampant.

237 Eventual Carrion  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 2:04:29pm

re: #229 Eventual Carrion

A few yeas ago I walked out on this. The guy I was there with refused.

CN Tower in Toronto had a portion of the floor that was clear material. I walked out on that, the wife refused.

238 dell*nix  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 2:06:28pm

re: #217 William Barnett-Lewis

OT Is that a Canon IV-S 2 on your page?

239 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 2:06:54pm

re: #237 Eventual Carrion

CN Tower in Toronto had a portion of the floor that was clear material. I walked out on that, the wife refused.

I’d refuse too. That’s just too scary for me. Even knowing the physics of the situation isn’t enough to override the fear reaction.

240 Ian G.  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 2:07:13pm

re: #237 Eventual Carrion

CN Tower in Toronto had a portion of the floor that was clear material. I walked out on that, the wife refused.

I’ve done that. I haven’t been to the Grand Canyon since they put the skywalk in (something about adding a cheap thrill to the natural majesty of the Grand Canyon bugs me).

I did refuse to walk out on this footbridge near Neuschwanstein Castle in Bavaria. Trust me, the image does not do justice to just how rickety the thing looked, and how deep the canyon below it is.

241 Eventual Carrion  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 2:07:58pm

re: #239 Dark_Falcon

I’d refuse too. That’s just too scary for me. Even knowing the physics of the situation isn’t enough to override the fear reaction.

It makes my stomach flutter a bit too, but I like it.

242 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 2:08:58pm

re: #237 Eventual Carrion

CN Tower in Toronto had a portion of the floor that was clear material. I walked out on that, the wife refused.

The now gone tourist tower at Gettysburg had an open top deck. I visited there in the mid-90s. I was able to walk to the edge (slowly) and take a death grip on the railing before looking around (and NOT looking straight down.)

The friend I was with could not even come out the door onto the deck area. Combination of knowing it was high, a wind blowing, and just a little bit of sway in the structure itself. His lizard-brain just said “NO”.

Neither of us had much problem a level lower where it was all glassed in.

243 Decatur Deb  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 2:09:27pm

re: #208 Charles Johnson

Heh…”one of the more sane right wing libertarians”. Where might one travel to see such creatures? I have a Sane Left Wing Libertarian on my life-list, but the photo evidence is not conclusive.

244 Targetpractice  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 2:09:50pm

re: #239 Dark_Falcon

I’d refuse too. That’s just too scary for me. Even knowing the physics of the situation isn’t enough to override the fear reaction.

Agreed. I don’t care how much you assure me of the solidity of the construction or the tensile strength of the material, there is no way I would willingly walk out on a clear floor at the top of a very tall tower. Hell, I get scared just standing next to railing at the top of tall towers.

245 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 2:09:57pm

re: #240 Ian G.

I’ve done that. I haven’t been to the Grand Canyon since they put the skywalk in (something about adding a cheap thrill to the natural majesty of the Grand Canyon bugs me).

I did refuse to walk out on this footbridge near Neuschwanstein Castle in Bavaria. Trust me, the image does not do justice to just how rickety the thing looked, and how deep the canyon below it is.

Does that bridge have a load limit, being all rickety? Seems like a disaster waiting to happen with all of those people…

246 Ian G.  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 2:11:16pm

re: #245 Backwoods_Sleuth

Does that bridge have a load limit, being all rickety? Seems like a disaster waiting to happen with all of those people…

It being Germany and all, I’m guessing it’s engineered to the highest safety standards and could probably support an Abrams tank. Fuck that noise, I still wasn’t going to go out there on it.

247 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 2:14:27pm

re: #246 Ian G.

It being Germany and all, I’m guessing it’s engineered to the highest safety standards and could probably support an Abrams tank. Fuck that noise, I still wasn’t going to go out there on it.

Could have just checked what was on the sign:

Armored vehicle load limit

248 Eventual Carrion  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 2:15:23pm

re: #242 Feline Fearless Leader

[snip]

The friend I was with could not even come out the door onto the deck area. Combination of knowing it was high, a wind blowing, and just a little bit of sway in the structure itself. His lizard-brain just said “NO”.

Neither of us had much problem a level lower where it was all glassed in.

The wind was one of the excuses my friend at the Grand Canyon used. You had to put these covers, pretty much what you see in hospitals, over your shoes because of the clear material in the middle of the walk way. He said it made it too slippery and the wind could push him to the side. But I knew he was just terrified of heights, so we met back up at the exit.

249 ObserverArt  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 2:17:11pm

re: #245 Backwoods_Sleuth

Does that bridge have a load limit, being all rickety? Seems like a disaster waiting to happen with all of those people…

Add to that, isn’t there an issue with harmonic rhythms too. If all the people would happen to be in step or in some kind of a beat to their steps wouldn’t that add to the problem? I am reminded of the Tacoma Narrows Bridge and how the winds started a sway that built up and twisted the structure to the breaking point. Any civil engineers here want to comment on rhythms?

250 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 2:17:30pm

re: #238 dell*nix

OT Is that a Canon IV-S 2 on your page?

“Still life for shooting”? That was my Leica IIIc with a Summitar 50/2. Beautiful combo. Probably shouldn’t have sold it but it had sat on a shelf for well over a year by the time I did.

Funny enough did own a Canon IV at one time. Sold it to finance a Canon 7 - that 7 is one I should have never sold along with my Contax II.

I’ve got a Olympus E-PL1 digital, a Rolleiflex MF and several LF cameras these days. Almost all digital :( I miss the wet work.

251 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 2:17:45pm

I walked a bridge like this once in eastern Kentucky.

Once.
During the aforementioned teenage years, when I was still immortal…

252 RealityBasedSteve  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 2:19:40pm

My first launch of Lookout Mountain in Georgia. About 1500 feet of air between me and the ground.

Youtube Video

RBS

253 ObserverArt  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 2:27:51pm

re: #252 RealityBasedSteve

My first launch of Lookout Mountain in Georgia. About 1500 feet of air between me and the ground.

[Embedded content]

RBS

So, how did that end? Seemed like a pretty wooded area down below. Were there predetermined landing spots?

254 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 2:28:21pm

The Capilano Suspension Bridge in British Colombia fucked my ex wife’s shit up hardcore. She was already in deep trouble by the time we got half way across and over the river, then a bunch of middle school punks made it their mission to make the thing undulate and sway as much as possible.

Oh man, we made it across, but she was a wreck, crying, getting close to meltdown. Spent about an hour and a half on the other side walking around and calming her down before we made the crossing back, which went much smoother.

It’s actually an incredibly strong bridge, but that fucker is designed to move and boy will it.

255 wrenchwench  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 2:28:38pm

re: #229 Eventual Carrion

A few yeas ago I walked out on this. The guy I was there with refused.

re: #252 RealityBasedSteve

My first launch of Lookout Mountain in Georgia. About 1500 feet of air between me and the ground.

[Embedded content]

RBS

NOPE.

256 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 2:30:25pm

re: #252 RealityBasedSteve

My first launch of Lookout Mountain in Georgia. About 1500 feet of air between me and the ground.

[Embedded content]

RBS

I could be talked into doing that, but I have old lady bones, of which I am very fond…

257 ObserverArt  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 2:31:18pm

re: #255 wrenchwench

NOPE.

What about hooking one of those rigs up to a bike. Get enough speed and you might be able to do a Wright Brothers.

: )

258 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 2:31:45pm

re: #257 ObserverArt

What about hooking one of those rigs up to a bike. Get enough speed and you might be able to do a Wright Brothers.

: )

Or an ET thing!

259 wrenchwench  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 2:32:30pm

re: #257 ObserverArt

What about hooking one of those rigs up to a bike. Get enough speed and you might be able to do a Wright Brothers.

: )

The Wright brothers are lucky to be alive.

Um, wait…..

260 wrenchwench  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 2:32:56pm

re: #258 Backwoods_Sleuth

Or an ET thing!

That I might do. Lemme get a basket on….

261 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 2:34:04pm

re: #260 wrenchwench

That I might do. Lemme get a basket on….

Image: ET-kids-costume.jpg

262 Decatur Deb  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 2:34:28pm

re: #244 Targetpractice

Agreed. I don’t care how much you assure me of the solidity of the construction or the tensile strength of the material, there is no way I would willingly walk out on a clear floor at the top of a very tall tower. Hell, I get scared just standing next to railing at the top of tall towers.

A Perugia cafe/chocolate shop we visited has a stone-lined medieval well about 60 ft deep in its floor. They installed lights and an inch-thick piece of lucite over it. Hard to keep the scratches down from the (braver) customers.

263 Varek Raith  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 2:41:59pm

re: #229 Eventual Carrion

A few yeas ago I walked out on this. The guy I was there with refused.

Because he’s sane.
You on the other hand…
;)

264 Decatur Deb  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 2:42:28pm

re: #249 ObserverArt

Add to that, isn’t there an issue with harmonic rhythms too. If all the people would happen to be in step or in some kind of a beat to their steps wouldn’t that add to the problem? I am reminded of the Tacoma Narrows Bridge and how the winds started a sway that built up and twisted the structure to the breaking point. Any civil engineers here want to comment on rhythms?

At our grade school we were never allowed to march up stairs as a unit—always went to ‘route step’. That was given as the reason.

265 Varek Raith  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 2:50:03pm

re: #264 Decatur Deb

At our grade school we were never allowed to march up stairs as a unit—always went to ‘route step’. That was given as the reason.

Way to kill the thread.
:P

266 wrenchwench  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 2:51:58pm

re: #261 Backwoods_Sleuth

Image: ET-kids-costume.jpg

So cute!

267 wrenchwench  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 2:53:23pm

re: #265 Varek Raith

Way to kill the thread.
:P

If we all post as a unit, the vibrations could break the internets apart.

268 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 2:54:55pm

re: #267 wrenchwench

If we all post as a unit, the vibrations could break the internets apart.

Good thing we have a couple here who can break the harmonic rhythm from time to time…
/

269 Varek Raith  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 3:01:17pm

re: #268 Backwoods_Sleuth

Good thing we have a couple here who can break the harmonic rhythm from time to time…
/

You implying I can’t dance?!?!

270 Political Atheist  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 3:02:33pm

Way OT
So many here are very web savvy. I do my best but it’s always a learning experience.

I have just about finished a documentary video. It’s all about how to make gold jewelry in a really rare color. Purple. it’s a how to for custom jewelers.

Interviews, flaming molten gold close ups, expert opinions, history of color, the works. 36 minutes long, just a tad shy of the 42 minute limit for a one hour TV show episode. Really dense in info.

It’s going up Sunday in a YouTube channel dedicated to jewelry manufacturing education, and go out in blue ray discs.

Question is about YouTube, put it up in full, or split it into shorter chapters as might best respond to short internet attention spans?

Charles you understand the ‘net user as well as anyone I ever even heard of. Any thoughts?

Anybody?

271 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 3:04:43pm

re: #269 Varek Raith

You implying I can’t dance?!?!

Only if you are actually Bristol Palin in disguise…

272 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 3:05:41pm

re: #270 Political Atheist

Way OT
So many here are very web savvy. I do my best but it’s always a learning experience.

I have just about finished a documentary video. It’s all about how to make gold jewelry in a really rare color. Purple. it’s a how to for custom jewelers.

Interviews, flaming molten gold close ups, expert opinions, history of color, the works. 36 minutes long, just a tad shy of the 42 minute limit for a one hour TV show episode. Really dense in info.

It’s going up Sunday in a YouTube channel dedicated to jewelry manufacturing education, and go out in blue ray discs.

Question is about YouTube, put it up in full, or split it into shorter chapters as might best respond to short internet attention spans?

Charles you understand the ‘net user as well as anyone I ever even heard of. Any thoughts?

Anybody?

I’d say split it into three 12 minute chapters. That will allow people to watch it as they have the time.

273 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 3:08:31pm

re: #272 Dark_Falcon

I’d say split it into three 12 minute chapters. That will allow people to watch it as they have the time.

Yes, and there are many people who have buffering issues and will just give up in frustration if it’s 42 minutes.

274 dog philosopher  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 3:09:49pm

it isn’t even 2014 yet, and already windows 8 is causing problems for me that i don’t have with windows 7

275 dell*nix  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 3:10:20pm

re: #250 William Barnett-Lewis

Still have a Minolta SRT-101, an Ashai Pentax and a Bronica. Need some foam work done on them. Provided I can find the film for them. Sold my Yashicamat with the 35mm adapter back in the late 70’s. Made for a nice portrait camera.

276 Decatur Deb  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 3:10:57pm

re: #274 dog philosopher

it isn’t even 2014 yet, and already windows 8 is causing problems for me that i don’t have with windows 7

Do you have a few minutes to talk with me about our Saviour, Linus?

277 Targetpractice  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 3:11:50pm

re: #276 Decatur Deb

Do you have a few minutes to talk with me about our Saviour, Linus?

GET OFF MY LAWN!!!

//

278 Killgore Trout  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 3:12:39pm

re: #274 dog philosopher

it isn’t even 2014 yet, and already windows 8 is causing problems for me that i don’t have with windows 7

Yeah, Windows 8 is pretty shitty. I’m thinking about digging out my old XP disk.

279 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 3:13:27pm

re: #276 Decatur Deb

Do you have a few minutes to talk with me about our Saviour, Linus?

Feline IT Support

NEDS MOR HOOMANS!

280 Political Atheist  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 3:14:05pm

re: #273 Backwoods_Sleuth

Yes, and there are many people who have buffering issues and will just give up in frustration if it’s 42 minutes.

That’s a really good point.

281 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 3:14:43pm

re: #279 Feline Fearless Leader

Feline IT Support

NEDS MOR HOOMANS!

Why do you have my cat? She’s supposed to be annoying me here at home…

282 Targetpractice  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 3:15:08pm

re: #274 dog philosopher

it isn’t even 2014 yet, and already windows 8 is causing problems for me that i don’t have with windows 7

Yeah, I’ve seen demonstration models of Win 8 at electronic stores, and I’m not impressed.

283 dog philosopher  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 3:15:42pm

re: #276 Decatur Deb

Do you have a few minutes to talk with me about our Saviour, Linus?

i am enslaved to a master that knows not st torvalds, your grace

284 Joanne  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 3:16:07pm

re: #272 Dark_Falcon

I’d say split it into three 12 minute chapters. That will allow people to watch it as they have the time.

I suggest even shorter chapters. Find a good breaking point and make them 4-6 minutes each. I think 12 minutes is too long. When I do videos for work, 5 minutes is what they want as a max length. I had to do one that was 90 seconds the other day. Shorter is better.

285 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 3:16:30pm

re: #280 Political Atheist

That’s a really good point.

Buffering is a huge problem for me here in the backwoods. I might go for a 5 or 10 minute YouTube, let it buffer while I do dishes or clean the cat box, but something like 42 minutes I wouldn’t even attempt.

286 dog philosopher  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 3:16:51pm

re: #282 Targetpractice

Yeah, I’ve seen demonstration models of Win 8 at electronic stores, and I’m not impressed.

it seems also that from the point of view of dlls there can be… dependencies

287 Killgore Trout  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 3:17:16pm

An interesting unpacking of Andrew Sullivan.
The Unhinging of Andrew Sullivan

288 Varek Raith  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 3:18:07pm

re: #285 Backwoods_Sleuth

Buffering is a huge problem for me here in the backwoods. I might go for a 5 or 10 minute YouTube, let it buffer while I do dishes or clean the cat box, but something like 42 minutes I wouldn’t even attempt.

Shit, I get buffering issues all the time and I’m in the DC metro.

289 Targetpractice  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 3:18:30pm

I do like that Microsoft is trying to incorporate some of the best features from Win 8 into Win 7, like the option to delete older updates that are no longer needed by the system. Freed up 4 GB the first time I ran it.

290 GeneJockey  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 3:18:32pm

re: #276 Decatur Deb

Do you have a few minutes to talk with me about our Saviour, Linus?

That kid with the blanket?

291 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 3:18:51pm

re: #288 Varek Raith

Shit, I get buffering issues all the time and I’m in the DC metro.

all that hot air in the atmosphere is my guess…

292 Decatur Deb  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 3:19:23pm

re: #290 GeneJockey

That kid with the blanket?

Open source blanket.

293 Charles Johnson  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 3:20:57pm
294 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 3:21:29pm

re: #276 Decatur Deb

Do you have a few minutes to talk with me about our Saviour, Linus?

No, but my sister has a new football and she was looking for you.

295 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 3:21:34pm

re: #275 dell*nix

Still have a Minolta SRT-101, an Ashai Pentax and a Bronica. Need some foam work done on them. Provided I can find the film for them. Sold my Yashicamat with the 35mm adapter back in the late 70’s. Made for a nice portrait camera.

www.freestylephoto.biz/ is your friend for film buying.

This page has the solution to light seals: herron.50megs.com

The Bronica’s are nice cameras though I was more into Mamiya.

296 Bubblehead II  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 3:21:51pm

re: #289 Targetpractice

I do like that Microsoft is trying to incorporate some of the best features from Win 8 into Win 7, like the option to delete older updates that are no longer needed by the system. Freed up 4 GB the first time I ran it.

When did they do this? Was it included in the last patch Tuesday?

297 Crestthree  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 3:22:44pm

Hold on pardner; Lyndon Johnson wire tapped candidate Nixon using 1968 technology, and this is unthinkable?
It doesn’t mean that Obama was sitting there with the receiver at his ear, but if you don’t think that Romney’s information was not readily available to thousands of people in the government, you are really naive.
Or you hate Greenwald so much that you’re incapable of reading what has been appearing in the Guardian, NY Times and WaPo for the past six months.
This is not a question of defending Obama; how can you defend opening up all of this personal information to thousands of people with scores of differing motivations who you can’t even identify? Like Snowden himself?
Three words, Amigo: J. Edgar Hoover.

298 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 3:23:02pm

re: #293 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

debating skilz…Conor haz none.

299 Decatur Deb  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 3:23:06pm

re: #293 Charles Johnson

Peelling back the paranoia, like a freemarket artichoke.

300 Targetpractice  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 3:23:09pm

re: #296 Bubblehead II

When did they do this? Was it included in the last patch Tuesday?

Couple weeks back, if I understand correctly. It’s an option in Disk Cleanup, you can have the system scan for unused updates and clean them up with other unwanted files.

301 Charles Johnson  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 3:23:25pm

Hmm.

302 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 3:23:45pm

re: #301 Charles Johnson

Hmm.

here we go again…

303 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 3:25:11pm

re: #297 Crestthree

Pee Yew, stinky sock?

304 dog philosopher  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 3:25:15pm

re: #285 Backwoods_Sleuth

Buffering is a huge problem for me here in the backwoods. I might go for a 5 or 10 minute YouTube, let it buffer while I do dishes or clean the cat box, but something like 42 minutes I wouldn’t even attempt.

try excedrin instead

305 Varek Raith  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 3:25:23pm

re: #297 Crestthree

Greenwald has lied countless times about the NSA story.

306 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 3:25:53pm

re: #304 dog philosopher

try excedrin instead

I prefer Scotch.

307 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 3:25:54pm

Ah, another run of “Obama does something no other POTUS in same position did not do while being capable of abusing his position without one person in the entire chain blowing the whistle on the obvious abuse of power.”

YAWN.

308 GeneJockey  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 3:26:34pm

re: #299 Decatur Deb

Peelling back the paranoia, like a freemarkiet artichoke.

Everybody loves parfait!

309 Political Atheist  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 3:27:45pm

re: #297 Crestthree


In the case of Johnson and Nixon we have evidence. What do you have for Obama and Romney? Extraordinary allegations call for extraordinary evidence, or its just crap.

310 GeneJockey  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 3:28:36pm

re: #307 Feline Fearless Leader

Ah, another run of “Obama does something no other POTUS in same position did not do while being capable of abusing his position without one person in the entire chain blowing the whistle on the obvious abuse of power.”

YAWN.

[dudebro]Snowden blew that whistle, despite being unable to find any actual evidence of actual abuse. But the potential to abuse it is there!!![/dudebro]

311 GeneJockey  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 3:29:03pm

Oops.

312 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 3:29:41pm

re: #293 Charles Johnson

313 Bubblehead II  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 3:30:56pm

re: #300 Targetpractice

Couple weeks back, if I understand correctly. It’s an option in Disk Cleanup, you can have the system scan for unused updates and clean them up with other unwanted files.

Thanks, not seeing it, but since I don’t do automatic updates I may have missed it.

314 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 3:32:12pm

re: #309 Political Atheist

In the case of Johnson and Nixon we have evidence. What do you have for Obama and Romney? Extraordinary allegations call for extraordinary evidence, or its just crap.

We know we have to be worried because SOCIALIST SURVEILLANCE, THAT’S WHY!!1

315 piratedan  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 3:34:24pm

another case of Greenwaldism, mistaking capability for culpability… yeah Conor, just because you sit at a keyboard doesn’t mean that you’ll write anything meaningful. Sure you have the capability to do so, but as of yet, we’re totally lacking in evidence.

316 Political Atheist  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 3:35:03pm

re: #314 Dark_Falcon

I wonder if the noob/sock has any clue I champion rescinding the Patriot Act & non relevant metadata surveillance here. Guys like that is why it’s difficult to get even the most careful and legit Pages on the topic well viewed. Seems to me there is issue fatigue out there. Mostly I think because of the foam at the moth advocates.

317 Ojoe  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 3:35:15pm

I do not think it would be very thrilling to spy on Romney.

318 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 3:38:07pm

re: #316 Political Atheist

I wonder if the noob/sock has any clue I champion rescinding the Patriot Act & non relevant metadata surveillance here. Guys like that is why it’s difficult to get even the most careful and legit Pages on the topic well viewed. Seems to me there is issue fatigue out there. Mostly I think because of the foam at the moth advocates.

And when the hatchling says this:

This is not a question of defending Obama; how can you defend opening up all of this personal information to thousands of people with scores of differing motivations who you can’t even identify? Like Snowden himself?

It’s like lolwut?

also, starting off a debut rant with “hold on pardner” and ending with “three words amigo”, well…

319 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 3:38:09pm

re: #316 Political Atheist

I wonder if the noob/sock has any clue I champion rescinding the Patriot Act & non relevant metadata surveillance here. Guys like that is why it’s difficult to get even the most careful and legit Pages on the topic well viewed. Seems to me there is issue fatigue out there. Mostly I think because of the foam at the moth advocates.

And all the frothing and ego is why there will not be a serious discussion of the topic where changes to it actually have a chance to be made.

320 Political Atheist  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 3:38:17pm

re: #317 Ojoe

Ojoe, long time no see. Hows things?

321 Decatur Deb  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 3:38:58pm

re: #317 Ojoe

I do not think it would be very thrilling to spy on Romney.

The agents who watch Pawlenty clamor for the job.

322 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 3:39:30pm

re: #317 Ojoe

I do not think it would be very thrilling to spy on Romney.

Not unless you’re a fan of what Tom Wolfe called Plutography.

323 piratedan  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 3:40:16pm

re: #321 Decatur Deb

The agents who watch Pawlenty clamor for the job.

veterans of the Generalissimo Franco detail….. ////

324 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 3:40:45pm

re: #323 piratedan

veterans of the Generalissimo Franco detail….. ////

Franco is STILL dead!

325 Decatur Deb  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 3:41:44pm

re: #324 Backwoods_Sleuth

Franco is STILL dead!

Still less boring than Pawlenty.

326 Ojoe  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 3:42:42pm

re: #320 Political Atheist

Very busy with architecture projects, finally.

327 lawhawk  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 3:43:04pm

What is possible, versus what we have identified, reported, recorded, etc.

Friedersdorf, like Greenwald, are relying on the realm of possibility bailing them out of making outrageous statements that don’t pass the smell test otherwise.

The NSA spies on Americans? That’s the Greenwaldian headline, but digging deeper finds that the NSA has to incorporate constitutional protections on Americans.

The NSA circumvents the FISC, which is a rubber stamp! Again a Greenwaldian headline, when the facts and evidence suggest FISC is upholding the constitution and blocking NSA actions - identifying problems and demanding fixes.

The NSA is spying on foreign governments, including allies! Well, DUH! Everyone spies, but no one likes when that uncontroversial fact is made public because well everyone does it and for the same reasons - to make sure what people are saying in public matches what’s going on behind closed doors (among other things).

Now, we’ve got Conor going off about how the President might have possibly spies on Romney. Sure, it’s just speculation, but it’s possible. Right?

Umm… those are the kinds of actions that are impeachable offenses. There’s no way any President would even consider this. Not when Romney was blabbing everything to everyone and was more than willing to put his foot in his mouth about how privileged he was, how he was going to repeal Obamacare (but just ignore how similar it was to MassCare/RomneyCare and how the GOP had embraced individual mandate up until the moment the President adopted it as a way to try and get GOP votes), etc.

It’s an appeal to extremes. And it just doesn’t pass the smell test.

328 dog philosopher  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 3:43:10pm

re: #316 Political Atheist

I wonder if the noob/sock has any clue I champion rescinding the Patriot Act & non relevant metadata surveillance here. Guys like that is why it’s difficult to get even the most careful and legit Pages on the topic well viewed. Seems to me there is issue fatigue out there. Mostly I think because of the foam at the moth advocates.

a foaming moth gathers no froth

329 Decatur Deb  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 3:43:25pm

re: #326 Ojoe

Very busy with architecture projects, finally.

Excellent. Maybe we’re digging out of the shit.

330 Ojoe  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 3:43:40pm

re: #320 Political Atheist

Here’s the Towercam, like before

obs.astro.ucla.edu

331 GeneJockey  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 3:47:17pm

re: #327 lawhawk

What is possible, versus what we have identified, reported, recorded, etc.

Friedersdorf, like Greenwald, are relying on the realm of possibility bailing them out of making outrageous statements that don’t pass the smell test otherwise.

The NSA spies on Americans? That’s the Greenwaldian headline, but digging deeper finds that the NSA has to incorporate constitutional protections on Americans.

The NSA circumvents the FISC, which is a rubber stamp! Again a Greenwaldian headline, when the facts and evidence suggest FISC is upholding the constitution and blocking NSA actions - identifying problems and demanding fixes.

The NSA is spying on foreign governments, including allies! Well, DUH! Everyone spies, but no one likes when that uncontroversial fact is made public because well everyone does it and for the same reasons - to make sure what people are saying in public matches what’s going on behind closed doors (among other things).

Now, we’ve got Conor going off about how the President might have possibly spies on Romney. Sure, it’s just speculation, but it’s possible. Right?

Umm… those are the kinds of actions that are impeachable offenses. There’s no way any President would even consider this. Not when Romney was blabbing everything to everyone and was more than willing to put his foot in his mouth about how privileged he was, how he was going to repeal Obamacare (but just ignore how similar it was to MassCare/RomneyCare and how the GOP had embraced individual mandate up until the moment the President adopted it as a way to try and get GOP votes), etc.

It’s an appeal to extremes. And it just doesn’t pass the smell test.

[dudebro]PROVE HE DIDN’T DO IT, MAN![/dudebro]

332 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 3:47:36pm

re: #328 dog philosopher

a foaming moth gathers no froth

Mothman!!!

(regional reference here…Mothman was also responsible for the collapse of Silver Bridge at Point Pleasant in 1967…)

333 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 3:47:41pm

re: #319 Feline Fearless Leader

And all the frothing and ego is why there will not be a serious discussion of the topic where changes to it actually have a chance to be made.

Agreed. The screamers on this issue are so vociferous and so far out there that even people who are otherwise pretty wingnutty or moonbatty simply do not want to engage. You can’t debate insane screamers, since they won’t concede anything and insist any debate be on their terms only.

It’s possible to bait screamers, and I know WindUpBird enjoyed doing that here at times, but I myself was baited and teased too much in my younger days to be able to enjoy doing that. Even watching it done in real life is painful for me, though I’m fine with seeing wingnuts baited on Twitter. That might be because on Twitter I’m just reading words and not seeing the physical reactions of another person.

334 Political Atheist  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 3:48:45pm

re: #319 Feline Fearless Leader

And all the frothing and ego is why there will not be a serious discussion of the topic where changes to it actually have a chance to be made.

That just frustrates the heck out of me. Ah well. Calm advocacy will have to be my friend.

335 GeneJockey  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 3:49:14pm

re: #331 GeneJockey

[dudebro]PROVE HE >DIDN’T DO IT, MAN![/dudebro]

There seem to be A LOT of folks out there who think ‘Prove it DIDN’T happen!’ is a cogent argument. Where in hell they go that idea from, I don’t know, but it really does seem to have taken hold.

336 dog philosopher  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 3:50:20pm

re: #332 Backwoods_Sleuth

Mothman!!!

(regional reference here…Mothman was also responsible for the collapse of Silver Bridge at Point Pleasant in 1967…)


The Man-Moth
By Elizabeth Bishop

(Man-Moth: Newspaper misprint for “mammoth.”)

Here, above,
cracks in the buildings are filled with battered moonlight.
The whole shadow of Man is only as big as his hat.
It lies at his feet like a circle for a doll to stand on,
and he makes an inverted pin, the point magnetized to the moon.
He does not see the moon; he observes only her vast properties,
feeling the queer light on his hands, neither warm nor cold,
of a temperature impossible to record in thermometers.

But when the Man-Moth
pays his rare, although occasional, visits to the surface,
the moon looks rather different to him. He emerges
from an opening under the edge of one of the sidewalks
and nervously begins to scale the faces of the buildings.
He thinks the moon is a small hole at the top of the sky,
proving the sky quite useless for protection.
He trembles, but must investigate as high as he can climb.

Up the façades,
his shadow dragging like a photographer’s cloth behind him
he climbs fearfully, thinking that this time he will manage
to push his small head through that round clean opening
and be forced through, as from a tube, in black scrolls on the light.
(Man, standing below him, has no such illusions.)
But what the Man-Moth fears most he must do, although
he fails, of course, and falls back scared but quite unhurt.

Then he returns
to the pale subways of cement he calls his home. He flits,
he flutters, and cannot get aboard the silent trains
fast enough to suit him. The doors close swiftly.
The Man-Moth always seats himself facing the wrong way
and the train starts at once at its full, terrible speed,
without a shift in gears or a gradation of any sort.
He cannot tell the rate at which he travels backwards.

Each night he must
be carried through artificial tunnels and dream recurrent dreams.
Just as the ties recur beneath his train, these underlie
his rushing brain. He does not dare look out the window,
for the third rail, the unbroken draught of poison,
runs there beside him. He regards it as a disease
he has inherited the susceptibility to. He has to keep
his hands in his pockets, as others must wear mufflers.

If you catch him,
hold up a flashlight to his eye. It’s all dark pupil,
an entire night itself, whose haired horizon tightens
as he stares back, and closes up the eye. Then from the lids
one tear, his only possession, like the bee’s sting, slips.
Slyly he palms it, and if you’re not paying attention
he’ll swallow it. However, if you watch, he’ll hand it over,
cool as from underground springs and pure enough to drink.

Elizabeth Bishop, “The Man-Moth” from The Complete Poems 1926-1979. Copyright (c) 1979, 1983 by Alice Helen Methfessel. Reprinted with the permission of Farrar, Straus & Giroux, LLC.

Source: The Complete Poems 1926-1979 (Farrar Straus and Giroux, 1983)

337 sagehen  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 3:50:23pm

re: #161 lawhawk

When the Jersey Shore and tourism are a huge part of the state’s economy, it’s the only prudent thing to do - to get out there and try to get people back into NJ and visiting the Shore, pouring their tourism dollars into the distressed communities so that folks have money coming in that they can also use to help fix up their own homes and businesses, and in turn help other businesses that rely on the money - spreading it throughout the local economy.

Except that… another agency brought in a bid 40% lower, that didn’t have the Christies in the ads, and were rejected. Of course I haven’t seen their pitch, I can’t swear that their spots would have been as effective, but it’s certainly worth looking into.

338 Political Atheist  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 3:51:51pm
339 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 3:52:50pm

re: #334 Political Atheist

That just frustrates the heck out of me. Ah well. Calm advocacy will have to be my friend.

Loud screaming also catches attention more easily, simply because of the way human brains are biologically wired.

340 Charles Johnson  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 3:56:05pm

Having quite a, uh, spirited discussion with him on Twitter right now.

341 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 3:57:16pm

re: #336 dog philosopher


Nice, I like!

But ours is Mothman:

environmentalgraffiti.com

342 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 3:57:32pm

re: #340 Charles Johnson

Having quite a, uh, spirited discussion with him on Twitter right now.

oh, lucky you!

343 piratedan  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 3:58:53pm

re: #340 Charles Johnson

Having quite a, uh, spirited discussion with him on Twitter right now.

what, he didn’t have any clouds to yell at?

344 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 3:59:09pm

re: #340 Charles Johnson

Having quite a, uh, spirited discussion with him on Twitter right now.

As long as “spirited” does not mean “driving me to drink” that’s good, isn’t it?
;)

345 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 4:00:27pm

re: #341 Backwoods_Sleuth

Nice, I like!

But ours is Mothman:

environmentalgraffiti.com

Our Mothman even has his own WIki page:

en.wikipedia.org

346 GeneJockey  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 4:00:51pm

Having someone drive you to drink is alright, provided they’re willing to stay sober enough to drive you home after.

347 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 4:02:24pm

re: #346 GeneJockey

Having someone drive you to drink is alright, provided they’re willing to stay sober enough to drive you home after.

Youtube Video

:D

348 teleskiguy  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 4:03:31pm

re: #340 Charles Johnson

Having quite a, uh, spirited discussion with him on Twitter right now.

Even though Mr. Friedersdorf peddled this “Obama spied on Romney!!!11t!1” nonsense today, this Twitter spat (if you can even call it that) is a lot more polite and orderly than Mr. Greenwald and his army of knuckle-draggers.

349 dog philosopher  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 4:04:46pm

re: #341 Backwoods_Sleuth

Nice, I like!

But ours is Mothman:

environmentalgraffiti.com

cool!

350 Decatur Deb  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 4:05:26pm

re: #340 Charles Johnson

Having quite a, uh, spirited discussion with him on Twitter right now.

I don’t hit the tip jar for ‘spirited discussions”. Bring me hate-tweets!!

351 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 4:05:58pm

re: #343 piratedan

what, he didn’t have any clouds to yell at?

He’s actually not yelling. He’s wrong, but in the main Herr Fiederdorf has been civil in this matter.

/The name is German, and so is the greatest part of my ancestry. Hence the the ‘Herr’ bit.

352 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 4:06:20pm

re: #349 dog philosopher

cool!

We’re rather proud of him…

353 darthstar  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 4:06:22pm

One of my former employees died yesterday. I haven’t spoken to him in over a year and yet I can’t stop crying.

A sweetheart of a man, he survived a rare disorder (myelofibrosis) via a stem cell transplant, three months in ICU and three more in isolation, and spent his first two months after he returned from surviving treatment (they have to kill pretty much every antibody in you to eradicate the disease, and the cure usually kills the patient) wearing a full head mask because the germs of those around him could kill him. And yet, through it all, he never said an unkind word about anyone. Even people at work who were complete assholes to him he treated with kindness and respect.

I’m going to miss you, Michael. You were a rare breed.

354 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 4:07:30pm

re: #353 darthstar

One of my former employees died yesterday. I haven’t spoken to him in over a year and yet I can’t stop crying.

A sweetheart of a man, he survived a rare disorder (myelofibrosis) via a stem cell transplant, three months in ICU and three more in isolation, and spent his first two months after he returned from surviving treatment (they have to kill pretty much every antibody in you to eradicate the disease, and the cure usually kills the patient) wearing a full head mask because the germs of those around him could kill him. And yet, through it all, he never said an unkind word about anyone. Even people at work who were complete assholes to him he treated with kindness and respect.

I’m going to miss you, Michael. You were a rare breed.

{{gentle hugs}}

355 Snarknado!  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 4:07:34pm

re: #353 darthstar

{{{darthstar}}}

356 dog philosopher  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 4:08:40pm

re: #345 Backwoods_Sleuth

Our Mothman even has his own WIki page:

en.wikipedia.org

A stainless steel statue of the Mothman

don’t show it to any fundies who believe in demons!

unless you want to make so they steer clear of the entire point pleasant area for fear of being magicked by beelzebub

357 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 4:08:54pm

re: #353 darthstar

One of my former employees died yesterday. I haven’t spoken to him in over a year and yet I can’t stop crying.

A sweetheart of a man, he survived a rare disorder (myelofibrosis) via a stem cell transplant, three months in ICU and three more in isolation, and spent his first two months after he returned from surviving treatment (they have to kill pretty much every antibody in you to eradicate the disease, and the cure usually kills the patient) wearing a full head mask because the germs of those around him could kill him. And yet, through it all, he never said an unkind word about anyone. Even people at work who were complete assholes to him he treated with kindness and respect.

I’m going to miss you, Michael. You were a rare breed.

I salute such a man, who lived life the right and honorable way.

RIP, Michael, and may angels sing thee to thy rest.

358 teleskiguy  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 4:09:25pm

re: #353 darthstar

So sorry to hear of your loss. Always rough when debilitating illness slowly snuffs out the good ones. I’ve experienced that with a couple of friends myself. Take care darthstar. :(

359 Kragar  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 4:11:06pm

Bryan Fischer blocked me on Twitter

LOL

360 CuriousLurker  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 4:11:28pm

re: #353 darthstar

The good ones are always taken away too soon. *sigh* {{darthstar}}

361 Hercules Grytpype-Thynneghazi  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 4:11:45pm

If at first you don’t succeed …

Youtube Video

362 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 4:12:30pm

re: #359 Kragar

Bryan Fischer blocked me on Twitter

LOL

Take that as the badge of honor it is. You PWed him pretty relentlessly.

363 Kragar  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 4:13:37pm

re: #362 Dark_Falcon

Take that as the badge of honor it is. You PWed him pretty relentlessly.

Still am, I just can’t follow him and see his crap automatically

364 Decatur Deb  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 4:13:55pm

re: #356 dog philosopher

A stainless steel statue of the Mothman

don’t show it to any fundies who believe in demons!

unless you want to make so they steer clear of the entire point pleasant area for fear of being magicked by beelzebub

“Sandhill Crane” That’s believable—a couple of our outposts on the Korean DMZ had ground-search radars that would be lit up by 6 ft Siberian Cranes in migration season.

Image: SiberianCrane.jpg

365 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 4:15:14pm

Friederdorf has headed out for now, and thus his exchange with Charles has ended. You can read it here, and its worth the read, not the least as a study in civil debate, which is rare on Twitter but possible.

366 lawhawk  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 4:16:52pm

darth,

I’m so sorry to hear of the loss and I know my words wont do justice or provide the kind of comfort and solace you and others Michael touched need at this time. Just know that folks here are here for you.

367 darthstar  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 4:20:13pm

re: #359 Kragar

Bryan Fischer blocked me on Twitter

LOL

That means he was reading you. Good work.

368 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 4:20:14pm

re: #364 Decatur Deb

“Sandhill Crane” That’s believable—a couple of our outposts on the Korean DMZ had ground-search radars that would be lit up by 6 ft Siberian Cranes in migration season.

Image: SiberianCrane.jpg

Could very well have been a sandhill crane, but probably more likely a Great Blue Heron, which is very common here.
And if one of them jumps up in flight in front of you at night…yowser!

369 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 4:21:37pm

re: #368 Backwoods_Sleuth

Could very well have been a sandhill crane, but probably more likely a Great Blue Heron, which is very common here.
And if one of them jumps up in flight in front of you at night…yowser!

Yeah, but seeing one spear a fish is pretty awesome.

370 Kragar  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 4:21:53pm

re: #367 darthstar

That means he was reading you. Good work.

And with a few clicks of the mouse, he’s on my navbar. I can still post replies, I just can’t “Follow”

371 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 4:22:30pm

re: #369 Dark_Falcon

Yeah, but seeing one spear a fish is pretty awesome.

true that!
I see them at my farm pond in the evening this time of year. Just amazing to watch them.

372 dell*nix  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 4:23:40pm

re: #295 William Barnett-Lewis

Thanks for the url. Looks like it may be useful.

373 Kragar  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 4:23:55pm
374 CuriousLurker  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 4:25:34pm

re: #363 Kragar

Still am, I just can’t follow him and see his crap automatically

Yeah, you won’t be able to add him to a list either, but if you’re using Tweetdeck you can probably use the “Add Column” function to add a User column type, then enter his username. I’m not 100% sure it’ll work as I’ve never tried it, but since his tweets are still public I think it might work.

Blocked users cannot:

• Add your Twitter account to their lists.
• Have their @replies or mentions show in your mentions tab (although these Tweets may still appear in search).
• Follow you.
• See your profile picture on their profile page or in their timeline.

Privacy note: If your Tweets are public (i.e., not protected), they will still be visible on your public profile page to anyone, regardless of whether they have a Twitter account or not. […]

support.twitter.com

375 teleskiguy  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 4:32:38pm

Interesting b/w picture of Julia Mancuso doing ski training in Maui.

SuperJules-MauiSki

376 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 4:35:31pm

Kragar I found another crazy person on Teh Twitters!

377 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 4:39:14pm

re: #376 Vicious Babushka

Kragar I found another crazy person on Teh Twitters!

[Embedded content]

Ugh, I wouldn’t engage that kind of “I hate everyone” person. They’re too unhinged to argue with and their rage is both repulsive and pitiable at the same time.

378 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 4:41:16pm

re: #376 Vicious Babushka

Kragar I found another crazy person on Teh Twitters!

[Embedded content]

heh…she’s a huge fan of Mark Levin and she has a blog queenofliberty.com

379 wrenchwench  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 4:41:17pm

re: #297 Crestthree

Oh, look! A hatchling!

Just one comment? Maybe the egg shell was tough, he’s recovering.

It’s a he, right?

380 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 4:41:42pm

re: #379 wrenchwench

Oh, look! A hatchling!

Just one comment? Maybe the egg shell was tough, he’s recovering.

It’s a he, right?

It was a one shot non-wonder…

381 Decatur Deb  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 4:43:04pm

re: #376 Vicious Babushka

Kragar I found another crazy person on Teh Twitters!

[Embedded content]

I found a sea shell at the beach.

382 wrenchwench  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 4:43:28pm

re: #378 Backwoods_Sleuth

heh…she’s a huge fan of Mark Levin and she has a blog queenofliberty.com

How does that work? Liberty with a monarch?

383 darthstar  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 4:45:39pm
384 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 4:48:41pm

re: #378 Backwoods_Sleuth

heh…she’s a huge fan of Mark Levin and she has a blog queenofliberty.com

19,000 followers. :(

385 prairiefire  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 4:49:17pm

“Plucked her eyebrows on the way, shaved her legs and then he was a she…”

386 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 4:50:12pm

re: #385 prairiefire

OK, that was a series of images I didn’t need in my head.

387 teleskiguy  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 4:52:02pm

re: #384 Vicious Babushka

19,000 followers. :(

She follows everybody that follows her (the “follow-back”). If I did that I’d have maybe three times the amount of followers I have now.

388 prairiefire  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 4:55:54pm

re: #386 Dark_Falcon

OK, that was a series of images I didn’t need in my head.

Bro! It’s Lou Reed “Walk On The Wild Side.” You must be turning the station.

389 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 4:57:12pm

re: #388 prairiefire

Bro! It’s Lou Reed “Walk On The Wild Side.” You must be turning the station.

I’ve never really listened to that song. Please excuse the error.

390 GeneJockey  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 4:57:33pm

re: #382 wrenchwench

How does that work? Liberty with a monarch?

My brain parses that as “Queen O’ Fliberty”.

Presumably she puts executed criminals in Fliberty Gibbets, as an example to others.

391 darthstar  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 4:57:57pm

re: #385 prairiefire

“Plucked her eyebrows on the way, shaved her legs and then he was a she…”

There’s a very nice piece by Laurie Anderson about her last days with Lou on Rolling Stone. I linked it earlier. Another tear jerker, but quite beautiful.

392 prairiefire  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 5:01:33pm

re: #391 darthstar

There’s a very nice piece by Laurie Anderson about her last days with Lou on Rolling Stone. I linked it earlier. Another tear jerker, but quite beautiful.

I read it this morning on Facebook!!! Very affecting! I’ve been verklempt all day. I was hoping she would write something. If I could pass with 1/2 as much courage as Mr. Reed…tear.

393 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 5:28:51pm

re: #389 Dark_Falcon

I’ve never really listened to that song. Please excuse the error.

Oh, for a TARDIS to give you a proper musical education in NYC circa 1977… ;)

394 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 5:33:00pm

re: #391 darthstar

There’s a very nice piece by Laurie Anderson about her last days with Lou on Rolling Stone. I linked it earlier. Another tear jerker, but quite beautiful.

I passed that link to my wife, she appreciated it greatly.

The biggest problem with Lou is deciding how you feel so you can choose the right album - dark & decadent? Velvet Underground and Nico. Hate the world? Berlin. Headache? Metal Machine Music. Punk anger? Street Hassle. And so on :D Tonigth? Joyful memories of him so either Loaded or New Sensations.

395 Joanne  Thu, Nov 7, 2013 5:44:16pm

re: #353 darthstar

My deepest sympathies. I’m so sorry.

396 JoyP  Fri, Nov 8, 2013 7:08:17am

Andrew Sullivan will probably find the argument compelling because, you know, Conor.


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Last updated: 2023-04-04 11:11 am PDT
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Detroit Local Powers First EV Charging Road in North America The road, about a mile from Local 58's hall, uses rubber-coated copper inductive-charging coils buried under the asphalt that transfer power to a receiver pad attached to a car's underbelly, much like how a phone can be charged wirelessly. ...
Backwoods Sleuth
3 days ago
Views: 191 • Comments: 1 • Rating: 4