Breaking: Three People Shot at Pittsburgh High School

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Oh no. Here we go again: 3 Shot at Pittsburgh Brashear High School - Pittsburgh Post-Gazette.

Three people were shot at Pittsburgh Brashear High School in Beechview this afternoon, an Allegheny County dispatch supervisor said.

Police and K-9 units are searching the nearby woods for the shooter, the dispatcher supervisor said.

Several streets nearby have been closed, including Crane Avenue at Fallowfield Avenue and Dagmar Avenue. Traffic was at a standstill just before 3:30 p.m.

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241 comments
1 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 12:49:50pm

Armed teachers could have stopped this.

/

2 Targetpractice  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 12:50:35pm

re: #1 Sol Berdinowitz

Armed teachers could have stopped this.

/

And armed janitors.

And armed guards.

And armed students.

//

3 Kragar  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 12:51:47pm

Fucking hell.

4 Dr. Matt  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 12:51:52pm

Just a reminder: NOW is not the time to talk about gun control/safety.

/es

5 b_sharp  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 12:52:22pm

re: #2 Targetpractice

And armed janitors.

And armed guards.

And armed students.

//

How many kids playing outside a school could a hidden sniper hit?

6 Backwoods_Sleuth  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 12:52:43pm

smh:

BUENOS AIRES, Argentina (AP) — Ultra-traditionalist Catholics have openly challenged Pope Francis by disrupting one of his favorite events, a ceremony that he and Jewish leaders led in the Metropolitan Cathedral each year to promote religious harmony on the anniversary of the beginning of the Holocaust.

A small group disrupted Tuesday night’s ceremony by shouting the rosary and the “Our Father” prayer, and spreading pamphlets saying “followers of false gods must be kept out of the sacred temple.”


Catholic fringe disrupts Kristallnacht ceremony

7 Dr. Matt  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 12:53:09pm

re: #2 Targetpractice

And armed janitors.

And armed guards.

And armed students.

//

Yes, because an armed society is a polite society.

Proof —> abcnews.go.com

8 Eclectic Cyborg  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 12:54:32pm

re: #1 Sol Berdinowitz

Armed teachers could have stopped this.

/

Darn it, you beat me to it!

Mine was going to be:

If the teachers were packing, this never would have happened!!

9 b_sharp  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 12:57:08pm

No matter how many people pack heat, a smart murderer with the right equipment can kill without danger to himself/herself.

10 Kragar  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 12:57:44pm

re: #9 b_sharp

No matter how many people pack heat, a smart murderer with the right equipment can kill without danger to himself/herself.

If sporks are outlawed, only outlaws will have sporks

11 Eclectic Cyborg  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 12:58:12pm

I really wish more Americans could see their gun culture from the eyes of an outsider.

I’m Canadian, I didn’t grow up around guns. Since I’ve been down here I’ve begun to enjoy target shooting and yes, I do have a .22 rifle with which to do said shooting.

BUT…I keep track of where that gun is at all times, always TRIPLE check to make sure it’s unloaded when I’m done with and keep the ammo in a secure place as well.

I don’t deny guns can be an interesting hobby, but I can also see the gun culture in this country is out of control.

About a week ago I got an NRA mailer with a temporary membership card.

The back of the card states the following:

Bill of Rights
Amendment II

…the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

No doubt you’ll notice they left out that whole “well regulated militia” bit in the first part of the amendment. Hmm…

12 lawhawk  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 12:58:51pm

Two victims were found outside the school, while the third was found in a locker room. Cue the person dressed in black body armor or clothes (yup):

Sources indicate that two victims were found on Lowenhill Avenue — a side street off Crane Avenue, just above the school — and a third victim was found in a Brashear locker room, although it’s not known if that person was actually shot inside the school.

Several roads are closed near the school, which is located on the side of a steep, hilly section of Crane Avenue.

Roads are blocked by city and school police cars and Allegheny County Sheriff’s vehicles. A SWAT truck also responded but has left the area.

Scanner traffic indicated that police were looking for a person dressed in all black clothing who was seen fleeing into the woods near the school.

13 Targetpractice  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 12:59:14pm

re: #5 b_sharp

How many kids playing outside a school could a hidden sniper hit?

Fifteen.

14 Dr. Matt  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 12:59:18pm

Live feeds from the scene of the shooting: pittsburgh.cbslocal.com

15 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 12:59:21pm

re: #8 Eclectic Cyborg

Darn it, you beat me to it!

Mine was going to be:

If the teachers were packing, this never would have happened!!

I keep that repsonse ready in reserve for the next school shooting report…

16 b.d.  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 12:59:36pm

It breaks my heart that I am no longer shocked at these seemingly routine reports. I now just look to see where it happened out of curiosity.

17 Aunty Entity Dragon  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 1:00:54pm

What the hell has gone wrong in our society that school shootings are now taking place once (or more) a week? How have we become so utterly broken as people that we cannot actually do anything remotely substantive to stop them?

I’ve got nothing, folks. I don’t even know what can be said at this point.

18 GeneJockey  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 1:03:54pm

That’s near where my Dad grew up in the South Hills.

19 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 1:04:02pm

re: #17 Aunty Entity Dragon

I’ve got nothing, folks. I don’t even know what can be said at this point.

The NRA has a whole string of talking points, starting with “Shut up!”

20 ausador  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 1:06:17pm

re: #1 Sol Berdinowitz

Armed teachers could have stopped this.

/

I sounds like in this case they would have needed armed teacher/snipers stationed on the rooftops of the school since the rounds were fired from a distance outdoors.

21 lawhawk  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 1:07:27pm

The students were apparently all shot outside while walking to a car they had driven in earlier in the day. All non-life threatening injuries. That last bit may be fortuitous in finding out who was behind the shooting.

22 Decatur Deb  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 1:07:47pm

re: #5 b_sharp

How many kids playing outside a school could a hidden sniper hit?

Two cases in the wiki list—not typical of attacks. Two victims dead in each case, though the worst included 9 wounded.


January 29, 1979: San Diego, California, Brenda Ann Spencer opens fire on Grover Cleveland Elementary School from the window of her home across the street, killing two adults and wounding nine others, eight of whom were children.[157]

23 b_sharp  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 1:08:15pm

Well, time to go get my poor wife who has been at work all day even after spending about 6 hours in the ER with my demon grandson and give her the option of quitting work early. She hasn’t slept since 1:30 am when my daughter phoned us in a panic.

24 wrenchwench  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 1:09:01pm

re: #19 Sol Berdinowitz

The NRA has a whole string of talking points, starting with “Shut up!”

“Shut up!” is my favorite talking point.

25 Eclectic Cyborg  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 1:09:07pm

OT, but anyone cover this here yet?

The “Obamacare girl” has been found

26 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 1:09:20pm

Smells like a gang style shooting at this point.

27 b_sharp  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 1:09:28pm

re: #22 Decatur Deb

Two cases in the wiki list—not typical of attacks. Two victims dead in each case, though the worst included 9 wounded.


January 29, 1979: San Diego, California, Brenda Ann Spencer opens fire on Grover Cleveland Elementary School from the window of her home across the street, killing two adults and wounding nine others, eight of whom were children.[157]

My point is that arming the entire school wouldn’t really help prevent attacks.

28 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 1:09:57pm

re: #25 Eclectic Cyborg

OT, but anyone cover this here yet?

LinkThe “Obamacare girl” has been found.

There was an article on NPR this morning. I didn’t read it. Anything interesting in the story?

29 Dr. Matt  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 1:11:12pm

re: #28 William Barnett-Lewis

There was an article on NPR this morning. I didn’t read it. Anything interesting in the story?

She is being cyberbullied by teahadists…..no one is shocked.

30 Aunty Entity Dragon  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 1:11:26pm

re: #25 Eclectic Cyborg

OT, but anyone cover this here yet?

LinkThe “Obamacare girl” has been found.

No doubt that Malkin has been trying to find out if she has granite counter-tops…

31 b_sharp  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 1:11:47pm

re: #28 William Barnett-Lewis

There was an article on NPR this morning. I didn’t read it. Anything interesting in the story?

No.

32 Kragar  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 1:11:47pm
33 b_sharp  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 1:12:02pm

BBL

34 ObserverArt  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 1:12:08pm

Since this is about more gun violence in this country, I want to mention something that I’ve seen in a few threads lately.

That would be Dark Falcon using the term Bloombergers as I guess a way to make a dig on anyone wanting to have any kind of gun control.

I find that highly offensive. To group everyone under one term like that is demeaning to individuals.

I’d like to ask Dark if he is around to explain that usage and to explain how he thinks that lends his arguments any credibility.

For Dark’s sake, I sure hope he is not out enjoying something in public when someone goes off and starts shooting. Should he too get shot he would at that very point be no different from anyone: Bloomberger, gun supporter or whatever your stance on the issue.

I hope I am not being out of line asking this. I saw it in some threads that are too in the past to ask. Now seems to be another good time. If asking is offensive to the membership, ignore me and accept my apology.

35 Decatur Deb  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 1:13:13pm

re: #13 Targetpractice

Fifteen.

That’s the case I was looking for—not on the wiki list.

36 wrenchwench  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 1:13:21pm

re: #28 William Barnett-Lewis

There was an article on NPR this morning. I didn’t read it. Anything interesting in the story?

Her ‘vaguely ethnic’ background is Colombian, just like my niece and SIL.

37 Amory Blaine  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 1:13:48pm

Alex Jones was bashing her today for being Colombian.

38 Eclectic Cyborg  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 1:13:52pm

re: #28 William Barnett-Lewis

There was an article on NPR this morning. I didn’t read it. Anything interesting in the story?

Yes, there was this:

She said that while she knew her photo would be used on the healthcare.gov website, she was stunned at the negative reception.

“Like I said it was shocking. It was upsetting. It was sad. We were having a hard day when we read all this,” she said. “And in a way, I’m glad that my son is not old enough to understand, because you know whatever happens to you, it hurts them too.”

About two weeks ago, her photo was removed from the site and replaced by several icons. “That was a relief,” she said.

“They took the picture down. I wanted the picture down, and they wanted the picture down. I don’t think anybody wanted to focus on the picture.”

39 AlexRogan  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 1:14:04pm

re: #17 Aunty Entity Dragon

What the hell has gone wrong in our society that school shootings are now taking place once (or more) a week? How have we become so utterly broken as people that we cannot actually do anything remotely substantive to stop them?

I’ve got nothing, folks. I don’t even know what can be said at this point.

I fully put the blame on the NRA, the firearms manufacturers who co-opted the NRA for profit, the talking heads who have helped to whip up ever-growing levels of paranoia amongst a huge group of gun owners, that same huge group of paranoid gun owners that think that the Second Amendment is absolutely sacrosanct with little to no allowance for any sort of sensible regulation, and the politicians who pander to them all.

They all fucking suck.

40 Decatur Deb  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 1:14:52pm

re: #27 b_sharp

My point is that arming the entire school wouldn’t really help prevent attacks.

No, but most do sound up-close. There must be a completely different approach to those who want to kill someone, and those who want to kill anyone.

41 Ian G.  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 1:15:48pm

re: #37 Amory Blaine

Alex Jones was bashing her today for being Colombian.

I was bashing Alex Jones today for being a fucking lunatic, drooling imbecile, and borderline traitor.

42 A Mom Anon  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 1:15:54pm

re: #36 wrenchwench
Every time I see that baby I giggle. I would have a hard time not kissing those cheeks constantly. Squee!

43 GeneJockey  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 1:16:13pm

re: #32 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Wasn’t it Mark Twain who said that?
///

44 GeneJockey  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 1:17:33pm

re: #34 ObserverArt

I find that highly offensive. To group everyone under one term like that is demeaning to individuals.

The Teahadists do this all the time!
///

45 wrenchwench  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 1:18:06pm

re: #42 A Mom Anon

Every time I see that baby I giggle. I would have a hard time not kissing those cheeks constantly. Squee!

You should print a copy to help with the empty nest syndrome. Cute cheeks that you don’t have to keep clean!

46 Mattand  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 1:18:38pm

re: #11 Eclectic Cyborg

I really wish more Americans could see their gun culture from the eyes of an outsider.

I’m Canadian, I didn’t grow up around guns.

I’m American, and I didn’t grow up around guns. Believe me, there’s more of us viewing gun culture as outsiders than you think.

47 Ian G.  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 1:18:47pm

All I can hope for is that the general culture over time changes on the issue of guns. You might think it’s hopeless and that Americans will always be paranoid and armed to the teeth just waiting to shoot anyone who looks at them funny, but it wasn’t that long ago that we threw homosexuals into mental institutions and membership in the Ku Klux Klan was routine among people in polite society. We can change, we just have to work at it.

48 ObserverArt  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 1:19:41pm

re: #44 GeneJockey

The Teahadists do this all the time!
///

I see what you did there!

; )

49 Eclectic Cyborg  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 1:19:50pm

re: #46 Mattand

I’m American, and I didn’t grow up around guns. Believe me, there’s more of us viewing gun culture as outsiders than you think.

Point taken and agreed on.

50 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 1:20:05pm

re: #2 Targetpractice

And armed janitors.

And armed guards.

And armed students.

//

A few ED-209s would keep the place safe — from everyone!
///

51 Shiplord Kirel  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 1:21:08pm

As reported in this page by Skip-Intro, even the editor of Guns and Ammo, formerly the bible of gun culture, is not pure enough for today’s gun faithful. The editor was forced right out of his job for merely allowing a writer to suggest the government has some right to regulate firearms. The writer, of course, was also banished to gun culture FEMA camp, never to be seen again within the fold. They apparently didn’t realize that their hobby has been taken over by violent crazy people.

I remember what the NRA was like when I was a kid in the 50s and 60s: Kindly older folks for the most part. Most were veterans of the world wars. They taught marksmanship and related classes like safety (especially safety), and supervised various competitions and provided trophies for the winners. The now all-too-familiar character of the camo-clad, AR-15 waving, gunshop commando would have been as strange as a Martian.

52 gwangung  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 1:21:16pm

Frankly, I connect the rash of gun violence with the cyber harassment of the Obamacare woman.

The victims are not people to them; they don’t have rights, they don’t have feelings, so they’re justified in doing whatever they want to them.

53 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 1:21:17pm

The only solution is universal home schooling with armed mothers

/

54 GeneJockey  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 1:21:31pm

re: #46 Mattand

I’m American, and I didn’t grow up around guns. Believe me, there’s more of us viewing gun culture as outsiders than you think.

I’m American, I DID grow up around guns, and even I view the gun culture as an outsider. It’s gotten that extreme.

55 Hercules Grytpype-Thynneghazi  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 1:21:43pm

re: #46 Mattand

I’m American, and I didn’t grow up around guns. Believe me, there’s more of us viewing gun culture as outsiders than you think.

I did a little target shooting at a YMCA summer camp in Pennsylvania when I was 10. Other than that, the only guns I’ve seen in person have been carried by policemen and soldiers.

56 A Mom Anon  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 1:22:03pm

What makes me scared and sad is that this is just becoming so commonplace that people just accept it as some fucked up “new normal”. In a sane country the NRA would be run out on a rail. They are no longer at all useful or needed.

Today in our little teeny local town newspaper was a little blurb in the opinion section from some guy who wrote in that he tried to buy a young mother’s groceries but she saw his NRA cap and declined the offer. Bullshit. Either he’s lying or he creeped her out, I doubt seriously the cap had much to do with it. So he’s the victim, not some poor young mom with a couple of kids. Yeah right sure. I’m so sick of this crap I can’t stand it anymore. I really wish there was a sane(er) place to move and I could take my family and go.

57 Amory Blaine  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 1:22:13pm

I know people who are literally tripping over their guns there’s so many of them. (That and they’re messy people).

58 Ian G.  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 1:22:57pm

re: #51 Shiplord Kirel

I remember what the NRA was like when I was a kid in the 50s and 60s: Kindly older folks for the most part. Most were veterans of the world wars.

Maybe those who actually had to use guns to kill others on the battlefield were far less likely to see them as surrogate penises like today’s gun nuts.

59 AlexRogan  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 1:23:11pm

re: #50 Feline Fearless Leader

A few ED-209s would keep the place safe — from everyone!
///

That is, until someone takes them out with a couple of well-placed shots from a Cobra Assault Cannon (which looks suspiciously like a Barrett M82).

/State-of-the-art BANG BANG!

60 Kragar  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 1:23:46pm

When did the right to self defense become “I WANT TO OWN AN ARSENAL AND IF YOU IMPEDE ME IN ANY WAY THEN TYRANNY!11!!1!”?

61 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 1:24:02pm

There is scant hope of the GOP splitting off into factions, nobody would risk such a short-term loss of power, but what is to keep the halfway normal folks from abandoning the NRA?

62 Kragar  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 1:24:17pm

re: #59 AlexRogan

That is, until someone takes them out with a couple of well-placed shots from a Cobra Assault Cannon (which looks suspiciously like a Barrett M82).

/State-of-the-art BANG BANG!

Screw you, I’ve got stairs.

63 Kragar  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 1:24:46pm

re: #50 Feline Fearless Leader

A few ED-209s would keep the place safe — from everyone!
///

Single level buildings only please.

64 Backwoods_Sleuth  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 1:25:27pm

re: #54 GeneJockey

I’m American, I DID grow up around guns, and even I view the gun culture as an outsider. It’s gotten that extreme.

Me, too. And I still have guns.
I also remember the “old NRA”. Everything I learned about guns, I learned from the NRA-sponsored classes and events when I was a kid in the 60s. Back then, responsible use and ownership was stressed over everything else.
Today’s NRA is a freaking joke.

65 Eclectic Cyborg  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 1:25:49pm

re: #50 Feline Fearless Leader

A few ED-209s would keep the place safe — from everyone!
///

Except Robocop.

66 Decatur Deb  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 1:26:03pm

re: #61 Sol Berdinowitz

There is scant hope of the GOP splitting off into factions, nobody would risk such a short-term loss of power, but what is to keep the halfway normal folks from abandoning the NRA?

The NRA is the ‘normal’. The true nuts abandoned it and went to the Gun Owners of America and other orgs.

67 Eclectic Cyborg  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 1:26:39pm

Shameless page plug:

Wal-Mart exec: Employees are ‘really excited’ to work on Thanksgiving

I don’t want to get banned, so I’m just going to let you think about the things that ran through my mind after I read that.

68 Sol Berdinowitz  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 1:28:20pm

re: #60 Kragar

When did the right to self defense become “I WANT TO OWN AN ARSENAL AND IF YOU IMPEDE ME IN ANY WAY THEN TYRANNY!11!!1!”?

keeping score

69 Backwoods_Sleuth  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 1:28:48pm

re: #67 Eclectic Cyborg

Shameless page plug:

Wal-Mart exec: Employees are ‘really excited’ to work on Thanksgiving

I don’t want to get banned, so I’m just going to let you think about the things that ran through my mind after I read that.

After last night’s discussion on the topic went completely sideways, I don’t even want to think about it today…

70 GeneJockey  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 1:29:21pm

re: #60 Kragar

When did the right to self defense become “I WANT TO OWN AN ARSENAL AND IF YOU IMPEDE ME IN ANY WAY THEN TYRANNY!11!!1!”?

I think it started when the Nigrahs got uppity.
//

Seriously, when the Magical Wonderland of the 1950s gave way to the 1960s, and folks for whom the 50s weren’t such a magical wonderland started demanding to have a shot at sharing the magical wonderland. It coincided with the rise in crime that mysteriously stopped in the early 1990s and has been reversing ever since, but you wouldn’t know it to talk to gun nuts, who seem to think that an unarmed person anywhere at any time WILL BE MURDERED!!!

71 ObserverArt  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 1:29:33pm

re: #56 A Mom Anon

What makes me scared and sad is that this is just becoming so commonplace that people just accept it as some fucked up “new normal”. In a sane country the NRA would be run out on a rail. They are no longer at all useful or needed.

Today in our little teeny local town newspaper was a little blurb in the opinion section from some guy who wrote in that he tried to buy a young mother’s groceries but she saw his NRA cap and declined the offer. Bullshit. Either he’s lying or he creeped her out, I doubt seriously the cap had much to do with it. So he’s the victim, not some poor young mom with a couple of kids. Yeah right sure. I’m so sick of this crap I can’t stand it anymore. I really wish there was a sane(er) place to move and I could take my family and go.

It reminds me of the scenes in Terry Gilliam’s Brazil where a bomb goes off, everyone gets blown back, they get up dust themselves off and go back to their conversations, eating, etc.

Sorry I may bring this movie up from time to time, but that movie spoke to me in its very dark black comedy way.

72 wrenchwench  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 1:33:40pm

re: #69 Backwoods_Sleuth

After last night’s discussion on the topic went completely sideways, I don’t even want to think about it today…

Two words: asbestos scales……

73 kirkspencer  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 1:33:56pm

Re the change in the NRA, it’s sometimes known as the Cincinnati Revolution. Here’s one write up, though some might call it biased as it’s a gun control site. You can find another in Neal Knox’s The Gun Rights War.

Put simply, a small but dedicated group of what we then called militia or black helicopter types took over the NRA during the 1977 convention. Prior to that the politics of the 2d amendment were part of the issue but the main focus was on responsible, safe gun ownership. After, it was, oh, what’s the fake quote? Oh, yes, “The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it.” (Probably Matt Carson falsely attributing it to Thomas Jefferson in his 2007 book On A Hill They Call Capital: A Revolution Is Coming‎.)

74 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 1:34:27pm

re: #62 Kragar

Screw you, I’ve got stairs.

(fall, whining, and kicking of feet in a robotic tantrum)

75 GeneJockey  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 1:34:54pm

re: #64 Backwoods_Sleuth

Me, too. And I still have guns.
I also remember the “old NRA”. Everything I learned about guns, I learned from the NRA-sponsored classes and events when I was a kid in the 60s. Back then, responsible use and ownership was stressed over everything else.
Today’s NRA is a freaking joke.

I own several as well. Hell I even joined the NRA at one point - right after Obama was elected. Despite supporting Obama I was afraid the Dems might do something stupid WRT guns, so it seemed to make sense to support a counterbalance.

Then I started getting their literature and emails and realized it wasn’t the NRA I thought it was. These guys were just plain old crazy wingnuts. I let the membership lapse and wish I’d never been gullible enough to join.

76 wrenchwench  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 1:35:27pm
77 Kragar  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 1:35:31pm

re: #71 ObserverArt

T.V. Interviewer: How do you account for the fact that the bombing campaign has been going on for thirteen years?

Mr. Helpmann: Beginners’ luck.

78 Backwoods_Sleuth  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 1:36:16pm

re: #70 GeneJockey

I think it started when the Nigrahs got uppity.
//

Seriously, when the Magical Wonderland of the 1950s gave way to the 1960s, and folks for whom the 50s weren’t such a magical wonderland started demanding to have a shot at sharing the magical wonderland. It coincided with the rise in crime that mysteriously stopped in the early 1990s and has been reversing ever since, but you wouldn’t know it to talk to gun nuts, who seem to think that an unarmed person anywhere at any time WILL BE MURDERED!!!

Hmmm…what was so different in 1999? Oh…and scary black peoples with gunz…

In sworn testimony before the House Judiciary Crime Subcommittee on May 28, 1999, in the wake of the Columbine shootings, NRA Vice-President Wayne LaPierre speaks forcefully in favor of universal background checks.

“Let’s talk about what’s reasonable, and what’s not. We think it’s reasonable to provide mandatory, instant, criminal background checks for every sale, at every gun show. No loopholes, anywhere, for anyone.”

Youtube Video

79 Decatur Deb  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 1:37:09pm

re: #76 wrenchwench

Museum-quality, that.

80 Ian G.  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 1:38:08pm

re: #70 GeneJockey

Seriously, when the Magical Wonderland of the 1950s gave way to the 1960s, and folks for whom the 50s weren’t such a magical wonderland started demanding to have a shot at sharing the magical wonderland. It coincided with the rise in crime that mysteriously stopped in the early 1990s and has been reversing ever since, but you wouldn’t know it to talk to gun nuts, who seem to think that an unarmed person anywhere at any time WILL BE MURDERED!!!

It’s actually not mysterious. Kevin Drum at Mother Jones has been writing extensively about the connection between lead and crime. Cliff’s Notes version: when children aren’t exposed to lead, they’re less predisposed to antisocial behavior. Thus, the lead ban in the 1970s led to the crime plunge that started in the 1990s (of course, as 20 years old is prime criminal age).

The rest, I agree with completely. New York City is as safe as it has ever been, and most other cities are also far safer than they were in 1990 (sad and predictable outlier: Detroit). But those who watch FOX “News” would never know this, especially if they’re holed up in some gated community miles from the nearest minority.

81 Backwoods_Sleuth  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 1:38:09pm

re: #72 wrenchwench

Two words: asbestos scales……

Yep. I just let it go after the first couple of volleys and curled up to read a book with the dogs and kittehs.

82 GeneJockey  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 1:38:52pm

re: #76 wrenchwench

[Embedded content]

It’s ridiculously easy to get the male Greyhound Rooing, especially if the two dogs across the creek who howl at every siren have been going:

“Rango! Rooo-ooo-oo…”

“Rooooroorooyowryowryowr! Rowryouyourowr! Yeeowrryowryowr!”

83 Romantic Heretic  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 1:39:02pm

re: #50 Feline Fearless Leader

A few ED-209s would keep the place safe — from everyone!
///

You have ten seconds to comply [Blow the poor schmuck away]

Heard from me in the theatre: “Programmed in C, and they for got to put a semi-colon right there.”

84 gwangung  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 1:40:14pm

re: #80 Ian G.

It’s actually not mysterious. Kevin Drum at Mother Jones has been writing extensively about the connection between lead and crime. Cliff’s Notes version: when children aren’t exposed to lead, they’re less predisposed to antisocial behavior. Thus, the lead ban in the 1970s led to the crime plunge that started in the 1990s (of course, as 20 years old is prime criminal age).

The rest, I agree with completely. New York City is as safe as it has ever been, and most other cities are also far safer than they were in 1990 (sad and predictable outlier: Detroit). But those who watch FOX “News” would never know this, especially if they’re holed up in some gated community miles from the nearest minority.

The wing nuts will laugh at you if you point this out. They’ll deny it even when you link to the raw stats.

85 Lidane  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 1:41:12pm

re: #53 Sol Berdinowitz

The only solution is universal home schooling with armed mothers

/

Well, at least until the next Andrea Yates comes along.

What we need is universal home schooling with armed children and pets. That’s the only way to be sure.

86 Backwoods_Sleuth  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 1:41:46pm

re: #85 Lidane

Well, at least until the next Andrea Yates comes along.

What we need is universal home schooling with armed children and pets. That’s the only way to be sure.

laser cannons on every pet!

87 wrenchwench  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 1:42:15pm

re: #79 Decatur Deb

Museum National Park-quality, that.

FTFUs, I hope.

88 GeneJockey  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 1:42:39pm

re: #80 Ian G.

It’s actually not mysterious. Kevin Drum at Mother Jones has been writing extensively about the connection between lead and crime. Cliff’s Notes version: when children aren’t exposed to lead, they’re less predisposed to antisocial behavior. Thus, the lead ban in the 1970s led to the crime plunge that started in the 1990s (of course, as 20 years old is prime criminal age).

The rest, I agree with completely. New York City is as safe as it has ever been, and most other cities are also far safer than they were in 1990 (sad and predictable outlier: Detroit). But those who watch FOX “News” would never know this, especially if they’re holed up in some gated community miles from the nearest minority.

I’ve seen that, and it’s intriguing. I think they’re on to something there.

By mysterious, though, I mean more at the time, through the 90s and 00s. If you read much Sci Fi from the 1970s and 1980, the writers just assumed it was on a steadily worsening trajectory and that by now the Rich would be living in walled, fortress-like enclaves with armed and armored vehicles for getting around anywhere.

I think the decline surprised the hell out of people. Indeed, to this day I think possibly most people don’t know about it or believe it.

89 wrenchwench  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 1:42:46pm

re: #81 Backwoods_Sleuth

Yep. I just let it go after the first couple of volleys and curled up to read a book with the dogs and kittehs.

You have very smart dogs and kittehs!

90 Backwoods_Sleuth  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 1:43:28pm

re: #89 wrenchwench

You have very smart dogs and kittehs!

I do!
Just wish they would stop with the plot spoilers…

91 bratwurst  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 1:43:49pm
92 erik_t  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 1:44:14pm

re: #88 GeneJockey

By mysterious, though, I mean more at the time, through the 90s and 00s. If you read much Sci Fi from the 1970s and 1980, the writers just assumed it was on a steadily worsening trajectory and that by now the Rich would be living in walled, fortress-like enclaves with armed and armored vehicles for getting around anywhere.
.

Glenn Greenbeck lives in the future?!

///

93 wrenchwench  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 1:44:17pm

re: #82 GeneJockey

It’s ridiculously easy to get the male Greyhound Rooing, especially if the two dogs across the creek who howl at every siren have been going:

“Rango! Rooo-ooo-oo…”

“Rooooroorooyowryowryowr! Rowryouyourowr! Yeeowrryowryowr!”

I like the Spanish word there for howl: aullar. My poor transliteration: OwYarrr!

94 Decatur Deb  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 1:45:54pm

re: #87 wrenchwench

FTFUs, I hope.

The photo, silly. And there are lots of FTFU in UD.

95 Ian G.  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 1:47:34pm

re: #82 GeneJockey

It’s ridiculously easy to get the male Greyhound Rooing, especially if the two dogs across the creek who howl at every siren have been going:

“Rango! Rooo-ooo-oo…”

“Rooooroorooyowryowryowr! Rowryouyourowr! Yeeowrryowryowr!”

I spent 4 nights camping in Yellowstone this past August. The first night, I awoke to the sound of a coyote chorus not far from the campground. I had never heard anything like it in my life, and it was amazing to hear what sounded like a dozen different voices howling in different pitches and at different times.

I took the risk of waking the fiancee up to hear it (she once got pissed at me for waking her up to hear an owl when we were camping), but she loved it too.

96 wrenchwench  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 1:48:46pm

re: #94 Decatur Deb

FTFU in UD?

97 Decatur Deb  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 1:49:17pm

re: #96 wrenchwench

FTFU in UD?

urbandictionary.com

98 Backwoods_Sleuth  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 1:49:22pm

re: #95 Ian G.

I spent 4 nights camping in Yellowstone this past August. The first night, I awoke to the sound of a coyote chorus not far from the campground. I had never heard anything like it in my life, and it was amazing to hear what sounded like a dozen different voices howling in different pitches and at different times.

I took the risk of waking the fiancee up to hear it (she once got pissed at me for waking her up to hear an owl when we were camping), but she loved it too.

Coyote choruses are fairly commonplace here in the backwoods.
Pretty spooky sounding. But not as spooky as bobcats screaming. YOWSER!

99 Mattand  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 1:50:56pm

re: #82 GeneJockey

It’s ridiculously easy to get the male Greyhound Rooing, especially if the two dogs across the creek who howl at every siren have been going:

“Rango! Rooo-ooo-oo…”

“Rooooroorooyowryowryowr! Rowryouyourowr! Yeeowrryowryowr!”

When the neighborhood dogs start howling at the sirens, our Boxer just looks up from his nap and gets this, “Really? You guys are really at this again?” look, and then plops his head back down.

We got sooooo lucky with this dog.

100 Amory Blaine  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 1:51:28pm

Future generations will write entire books with (edit) strings of acronyms.

101 wrenchwench  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 1:51:39pm

re: #97 Decatur Deb

urbandictionary.com

Ah. I meant ‘fixed that for us’. But I guess I broke it.

102 Decatur Deb  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 1:52:48pm

re: #101 wrenchwench

Ah. I meant ‘fixed that for us’. But I guess I broke it.

No prob, it was the first to Google up, so I kept looking.

103 Mattand  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 1:53:05pm

re: #100 Amory Blaine

Future generations will write entire books with (edit) strings of acronyms.

OMG, WTF?

104 Amory Blaine  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 1:53:40pm

Maybe we’ll come full circle and grunt at each other in the future like the cavemen.

105 Kragar  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 1:54:40pm

re: #100 Amory Blaine

Future generations will write entire books with (edit) strings of acronyms.

ETLA, when TLA just aren’t enough.

106 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 1:55:33pm

re: #58 Ian G.

Maybe those who actually had to use guns to kill others on the battlefield were far less likely to see them as surrogate penises like today’s gun nuts.

That is part of why I believe the nation needs universal national service. Some military, some Americorps or CCC or whatever, all getting appropriate training so that they know the basics of safety.

107 ObserverArt  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 1:56:15pm

re: #104 Amory Blaine

Maybe we’ll come full circle and grunt at each other in the future like the cavemen.

I think we may already be getting real close. Have you heard how some people respond to each other?

/ a little.

108 Decatur Deb  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 1:58:41pm

re: #106 William Barnett-Lewis

That is part of why I believe the nation needs universal national service. Some military, some Americorps or CCC or whatever, all getting appropriate training so that they know the basics of safety.

He’s the one!! He wants to command Obama’s secret Muslin army!!!

109 sagehen  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 2:01:37pm

re: #51 Shiplord Kirel

As reported in this page by Skip-Intro, even the editor of Guns and Ammo, formerly the bible of gun culture, is not pure enough for today’s gun faithful. The editor was forced right out of his job for merely allowing a writer to suggest the government has some right to regulate firearms. The writer, of course, was also banished to gun culture FEMA camp, never to be seen again within the fold. They apparently didn’t realize that their hobby has been taken over by violent crazy people.

I remember what the NRA was like when I was a kid in the 50s and 60s: Kindly older folks for the most part. Most were veterans of the world wars. They taught marksmanship and related classes like safety (especially safety), and supervised various competitions and provided trophies for the winners. The now all-too-familiar character of the camo-clad, AR-15 waving, gunshop commando would have been as strange as a Martian.

The Black Panthers used to stroll around like these guys, in groups, in costume, well-armed… conservatives freaked the hell out. That was the main reason Governor Ronald Reagan (with a strong assist from Charlton Heston and the NRA) passed California’s gun control law — prohibiting open carry and requiring a license for concealed carry.

4 decades later, they’re still so freaked out by that image that two unarmed guys in the same costume are worthy of all day coverage on Fox and a demand that the Attorney General DO SOMETHING!!

110 EmmaAnne  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 2:02:04pm

re: #64 Backwoods_Sleuth

Me, too. And I still have guns.
I also remember the “old NRA”. Everything I learned about guns, I learned from the NRA-sponsored classes and events when I was a kid in the 60s. Back then, responsible use and ownership was stressed over everything else.
Today’s NRA is a freaking joke.

Yeah, this! I realized how much things had changed when Cheney shot that guy in the face. When I was learning to shoot, we spent probably twenty minutes on safety and how to handle guns and ammo before we were ever allowed to try it. It was made very clear to us that you had to spume that guns were always loaded, and you didn’t aim at anything you weren’t going to shoot. It was certainly clear that you were completely responsible for any “accidents” you perpetrated.

When I saw the old guy apologizing to Cheney for being shot, I was just gobsmacked. It’s like guns are so awesome and integral now that it is just rude to expect the most basic safe handling from people.

111 Kragar  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 2:02:13pm

re: #106 William Barnett-Lewis

That is part of why I believe the nation needs universal national service. Some military, some Americorps or CCC or whatever, all getting appropriate training so that they know the basics of safety.

I’ve thought about a National Logisitics Corps for years. Run it like a military service, but the would just be used for infrastructure and disaster relief, plus get people trained in trade skills for careers when they leave. Need emergency levies or fire breaks? Send a battalion of construction specialists. Isolated communities need better utilities or communication? Send a platoon. In the mean time, get people trained in basic first aid, and other skills and set them up for success in life.

112 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 2:02:25pm

re: #106 William Barnett-Lewis

That is part of why I believe the nation needs universal national service. Some military, some Americorps or CCC or whatever, all getting appropriate training so that they know the basics of safety.

Federal Service. Would you like to know more?
/ ;)

113 erik_t  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 2:03:59pm

re: #111 Kragar

I’ve thought about a National Logisitics Corps for years. Run it like a military service, but the would just be used for infrastructure and disaster relief, plus get people trained in trade skills for careers when they leave. Need emergency levies or fire breaks? Send a battalion of construction specialists. Isolated communities need better utilities or communication? Send a platoon. In the mean time, get people trained in basic first aid, and other skills and set them up for success in life.

I would wholeheartedly support this. You can go into the actual armed forces if you prefer, of course.

114 Decatur Deb  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 2:04:08pm

Dogwalk, before the temps crash. BBL

115 Backwoods_Sleuth  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 2:05:43pm

re: #111 Kragar

I’ve thought about a National Logisitics Corps for years. Run it like a military service, but the would just be used for infrastructure and disaster relief, plus get people trained in trade skills for careers when they leave. Need emergency levies or fire breaks? Send a battalion of construction specialists. Isolated communities need better utilities or communication? Send a platoon. In the mean time, get people trained in basic first aid, and other skills and set them up for success in life.

That is what National Guard used to be…

116 Kragar  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 2:06:59pm
117 Ian G.  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 2:10:51pm

re: #116 Kragar

I can’t wait for this year’s edition of the War on a Pagan Celebration of the Winter Solstice (complete with Sarah Palin book!).

118 Eclectic Cyborg  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 2:11:13pm

re: #116 Kragar

[Embedded content]

No, the word “Lord” is in the constitution. It’s also in the Star Wars movies, J.R.R. Tolkien Novels and Michael Flatley musicals.

119 Kragar  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 2:11:22pm

re: #113 erik_t

I would wholeheartedly support this. You can go into the actual armed forces if you prefer, of course.

Yeah, but there are plenty of people who don’t want to go into combat for personal or religious grounds. Certain fields and specializations would need to stay military, such as IT, nuclear and aviation mechanics for example, but general construction, plumbing, and electrical work could be handled by them.

By no means a complete plan, but a start of one, just to get people thinking about it.

120 darthstar  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 2:12:09pm

Fuck.

121 A Mom Anon  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 2:12:24pm

re: #116 Kragar

WTF is he talking about? I think he’s looking at the new Toys R Us Christmas catalog and got mixed up.

122 Kragar  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 2:12:44pm

re: #120 darthstar

Fuck.

Maybe later, but thanks for the offer.

123 darthstar  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 2:13:26pm

Awesome pie chart

Image: MF_pie_chart_v3_2013_11_12-2.png

124 darthstar  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 2:13:48pm

re: #123 darthstar

Awesome pie chart

Image: MF_pie_chart_v3_2013_11_12-2.png

Best opened in new tab.

125 Romantic Heretic  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 2:14:06pm

re: #106 William Barnett-Lewis

That is part of why I believe the nation needs universal national service. Some military, some Americorps or CCC or whatever, all getting appropriate training so that they know the basics of safety.

That’s pretty much what Heinlein proposed in Starship Troopers. No voting without at least two years of Federal Service first. And despite the howling of some people he made it clear Federal Service was not the same thing as military service.

Considering the way things are now I’m thinking he may have been on to something

126 Kragar  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 2:18:17pm

re: #125 Romantic Heretic

That’s pretty much what Heinlein proposed in Starship Troopers. No voting without at least two years of Federal Service first. And despite the howling of some people he made it clear Federal Service was not the same thing as military service.

Considering the way things are now I’m thinking he may have been on to something

Yup. In the original story, it was made quite clear that all the testing was done to determine what the volunteer was capable of, not screen them out of the service. The government was obligated to find a position for anyone who wanted to serve. In some cases, this meant you would spend 2 years digging tunnels for asteroid mines. For Rico’s best friend in the book, it meant he worked in a scientific research station.

127 makeitstop  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 2:18:29pm

re: #22 Decatur Deb

Two cases in the wiki list—not typical of attacks. Two victims dead in each case, though the worst included 9 wounded.


January 29, 1979: San Diego, California, Brenda Ann Spencer opens fire on Grover Cleveland Elementary School from the window of her home across the street, killing two adults and wounding nine others, eight of whom were children.[157]

Because she ‘didn’t like Mondays.’

128 Dr. Matt  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 2:18:56pm

re: #120 darthstar

Fuck.

Send me a selfie and then I’ll consider….

//

129 b_sharp  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 2:19:29pm

re: #116 Kragar

[Embedded content]

He’s considering ‘in the year of our Lord’ to be the same as Christmas.

130 Targetpractice  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 2:20:21pm

re: #129 b_sharp

He’s considering ‘in the year of our Lord’ to be the same as Christmas.

Which is why we celebrate New Year’s on Christmas Day.

///

131 Kragar  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 2:20:57pm

re: #129 b_sharp

He’s considering ‘in the year of our Lord’ to be the same as Christmas.

Which makes perfect sense when you’re a complete fucking idiot.

132 Lidane  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 2:21:29pm
133 GeneJockey  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 2:21:36pm

re: #104 Amory Blaine

Maybe we’ll come full circle and grunt at each other in the future like the cavemen.

Hmmmm.

134 Backwoods_Sleuth  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 2:21:38pm

re: #129 b_sharp

He’s considering ‘in the year of our Lord’ to be the same as Christmas.

Then Christmas should be on September 17, since that’s the date the Constitution was signed…

135 b_sharp  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 2:22:17pm

re: #133 GeneJockey

Hmmmm.

Uh huh

136 piratedan  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 2:24:16pm

man… I’m having trouble getting Facebook to load, sounds like we best nationalize all public media… //////

137 GeneJockey  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 2:24:32pm

re: #135 b_sharp

Uh huh

Heh!

138 b_sharp  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 2:24:43pm

re: #134 Backwoods_Sleuth

Then Christmas should be on September 17, since that’s the date the Constitution was signed…

I spent 10 minutes listening to him, don’t expect me to translate too.

139 Backwoods_Sleuth  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 2:25:09pm

Meanwhile, in North Carolina…

WILKESBORO, N.C. — Police in Wilkesboro are looking for the man who they say accidentally fired a gun in a store during a discussion on the Second Amendment.

Man Fires Gun During Second Amendment Discussion In Wilkesboro

My favorite part:

Police say the man pulled out his gun to show an employee when he accidentally shot a printer.

140 b_sharp  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 2:25:31pm

re: #137 GeneJockey

Heh!

Meh.

141 GeneJockey  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 2:26:16pm

re: #139 Backwoods_Sleuth

Meanwhile, in North Carolina…

Man Fires Gun During Second Amendment Discussion In Wilkesboro

My favorite part:

This is why you need a gun. You never know when some asshole will pull out HIS gun and shoot the printer. What if you needed that printer?
/////////////////////////

142 GeneJockey  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 2:26:49pm

re: #140 b_sharp

Meh.

Eh?

143 Backwoods_Sleuth  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 2:26:52pm

re: #141 GeneJockey

This is why you need a gun. You never know when some asshole will pull out HIS gun and shoot the printer. What if you needed that printer?
/////////////////////////

especially if it was one of those fancy 3D printers that makes gunz!!!

144 b_sharp  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 2:27:04pm

re: #139 Backwoods_Sleuth

Meanwhile, in North Carolina…

Man Fires Gun During Second Amendment Discussion In Wilkesboro

My favorite part:

The tragic death of an innocent printer.

145 Kragar  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 2:27:12pm

re: #140 b_sharp

Meh.

Oooga shaka.

Youtube Video

146 GeneJockey  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 2:27:23pm

re: #143 Backwoods_Sleuth

especially if it was one of those fancy 3D printers that makes gunz!!!

I think we just circled back over our own trail, there.

147 wrenchwench  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 2:27:55pm

re: #132 Lidane

[Embedded content]

Just wait ‘til he gets to ‘This Land Is Your Land’.

148 Backwoods_Sleuth  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 2:28:01pm

re: #146 GeneJockey

I think we just circled back over our own trail, there.

we shoulda left bread crumbs…

149 piratedan  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 2:28:06pm

re: #144 b_sharp

The tragic death of an innocent printer.

that printer would have had rights if only it had self incorporated….////

150 GeneJockey  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 2:28:22pm

re: #144 b_sharp

The tragic death of an innocent printer.

How do you know it’s innocent? Probably printed dozens of stupid emails for folks who can’t read screens. Wasteful!

151 Targetpractice  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 2:28:42pm

re: #145 Kragar

Oooga shaka.

[Embedded content]

Well, we all know where it started:

Youtube Video

152 GeneJockey  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 2:28:52pm

re: #148 Backwoods_Sleuth

we shoulda left bread crumbs…

Panko, or Progresso Italian Herb?

153 Backwoods_Sleuth  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 2:29:09pm

re: #149 piratedan

that printer would have had rights if only it had self incorporated….////

if only it had had time to print out a gun…

154 Backwoods_Sleuth  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 2:29:25pm

re: #152 GeneJockey

Panko, or Progresso Italian Herb?

why not both? It’s only fair…

155 Targetpractice  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 2:29:32pm

re: #144 b_sharp

The tragic death of an innocent printer.

Never again would it flash “PC Load Letter” at an innocent office worker.

//

156 Decatur Deb  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 2:30:26pm

re: #130 Targetpractice

Which is why we celebrate New Year’s on Christmas Day.

///

Vaguely remember that some government activity was not to occur on/around Christmas—a scheduling thing.

157 GeneJockey  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 2:30:40pm

re: #155 Targetpractice

Never again would it flash “PC Load Letter” at an innocent office worker.

//

On the plus side, like a dead musician, it’ll never jam again.

158 Lidane  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 2:30:42pm
159 GeneJockey  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 2:31:19pm

re: #154 Backwoods_Sleuth

why not both? It’s only fair…

It’s what we put on Mac and Chee.

160 ObserverArt  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 2:31:49pm

Heh. I just tried to send a nice little email to the “contact CBS News” site and I keep getting a message: There’s been an ERROR. Please check that you’ve filled out all the required fields including selecting a CBSNEWS catergory and try resubmitting the form.

There are only first name, last name and email fields and a selection for category and message type. That’s 5 fields/query selections and all have been filled and checked. I am not new to this!

I wonder what could be wrong? //////////

Oh, I won’t give up. I copied my response to my WordPad and have it stored on my desktop. They have to come out from under the rock sometime, and I will still be here. But as I mentioned in the comment, I won’t be watching anything CBS news related in the meantime/again. As a matter of fact, if they didn’t have NFL football AFC games and some good college football/basketball, I doubt I’d ever watch them. Oh well.

161 Targetpractice  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 2:34:22pm

re: #157 GeneJockey

On the plus side, like a dead musician, it’ll never jam again.

More satisfying methods of ensuring that:

Youtube Video

162 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 2:34:26pm

re: #150 GeneJockey

How do you know it’s innocent? Probably printed dozens of stupid emails for folks who can’t read screens. Wasteful!

No Lexmark is innocent. They are born constructed in a state of guilt!
//

163 Decatur Deb  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 2:34:26pm

re: #156 Decatur Deb

Vaguely remember that some government activity was not to occur on/around Christmas—a scheduling thing.

Belay that—it must be in some other early document.

164 Eclectic Cyborg  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 2:35:22pm

re: #155 Targetpractice

Never again would it flash “PC Load Letter” at an innocent office worker.

//

PC load letter? What the fuck does that mean?!

165 darthstar  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 2:35:57pm
166 Eclectic Cyborg  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 2:36:24pm

re: #132 Lidane

[Embedded content]

Next he’s going to tell us the Gadsden Flag is the REAL American flag right?

167 Feline Fearless Leader  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 2:36:26pm

re: #164 Eclectic Cyborg

PC load letter? What the fuck does that mean?!

It wants 8.5x11” paper, and none of that liberal progressive A4 crap!
:p

168 Romantic Heretic  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 2:36:34pm

re: #126 Kragar

Yup. In the original story, it was made quite clear that all the testing was done to determine what the volunteer was capable of, not screen them out of the service. The government was obligated to find a position for anyone who wanted to serve. In some cases, this meant you would spend 2 years digging tunnels for asteroid mines. For Rico’s best friend in the book, it meant he worked in a scientific research station.

Even military service was iffy thanks to the technology they had.

The main character’s training company started off regiment size, over 2,000 bodies. A year later 138 graduated of which 13 died.

One of the things I like to slap the ‘no tax’ people with, since they’re invariably ‘support our troops’ types, is telling them, “So you support people risking their time. bodies and sanity to support the nation but you aren’t even willing to sacrifice your money?”

169 Eclectic Cyborg  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 2:36:48pm

re: #165 darthstar

[Embedded content]

CATASTROPHIC GLOBAL WARMING ALERT

170 ObserverArt  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 2:38:20pm

re: #154 Backwoods_Sleuth

why not both? It’s only fair…

That sounds just like liberal/progressive thinking. Better watch that. They may be watching. They know you may be a teetering Republican!

/// just in case.

Edit…didn’t have Republican all spelled out!

171 blueraven  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 2:40:25pm

Ugh…healthcare dot gov numbers are in.

From Oct 1 - Nov 2
approximately:
106,000 total enrolled
27,000 from federal exchange

172 wrenchwench  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 2:40:33pm

More bad breaking news.

173 Targetpractice  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 2:40:47pm

re: #168 Romantic Heretic

Even military service was iffy thanks to the technology they had.

The main character’s training company started off regiment size, over 2,000 bodies. A year later 138 graduated of which 13 died.

One of the things I like to slap the ‘no tax’ people with, since they’re invariably ‘support our troops’ types, is telling them, “So you support people risking their time. bodies and sanity to support the nation but you aren’t even willing to sacrifice your money?”

Then again, in the book the infantry were in powered armor and capable of doing the same work individually as an entire platoon of unarmored soldiers. As opposed to the film, whose approach was “Let’s put them in cheap-looking body armor and try swarm attacks!”

174 Targetpractice  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 2:41:04pm

re: #171 blueraven

Ugh…healthcare dot gov numbers are in .

From Oct 1 - Nov 2
approximately:
106,000 total enrolled
27,000 from federal exchange

What’s the “ugh” about?

175 Decatur Deb  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 2:42:14pm

re: #171 blueraven

Ugh…healthcare dot gov numbers are in.

From Oct 1 - Nov 2
approximately:
106,000 total enrolled
27,000 from federal exchange

Bad, but not as bad as I feared.

176 blueraven  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 2:42:21pm

re: #174 Targetpractice

What’s the “ugh” about?

Not good. Republicans are pouncing, of course.

177 piratedan  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 2:42:30pm

re: #171 blueraven

Ugh…healthcare dot gov numbers are in .

From Oct 1 - Nov 2
approximately:
106,000 total enrolled
27,000 from federal exchange

yeah but nearly 950,000 profiles created w/o purchases… that means people are getting in and accessing the site and few folks are prepared to purchase health care four months in advance without shopping and number crunching… those numbers shouldn’t be discouraging.

It’s the usual media bullshit, as always it’s the numbers that THEY don’t report

178 Decatur Deb  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 2:42:52pm

re: #174 Targetpractice

What’s the “ugh” about?

Its about 1/5th the design goal for Oct.

thedailybeast.com

179 AlexRogan  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 2:43:28pm

re: #168 Romantic Heretic

Even military service was iffy thanks to the technology they had.

The main character’s training company started off regiment size, over 2,000 bodies. A year later 138 graduated of which 13 died.

One of the things I like to slap the ‘no tax’ people with, since they’re invariably ‘support our troops’ types, is telling them, “So you support people risking their time. bodies and sanity to support the nation but you aren’t even willing to sacrifice your money?”

Pretty much, because their ultimate position is “fuck you (and everyone else), we’ve got ours; self-sacrifice is for morons and suckers, something for us to trot out for political gain”.

Sickening, ain’t it?

180 Targetpractice  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 2:43:33pm

re: #176 blueraven

Not good. Republicans are pouncing, of course.

And? Enrollment period doesn’t end for another five months. I’d have been shocked if everybody who was going to sign up before then did so in the first month.

181 blueraven  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 2:44:55pm

re: #177 piratedan

yeah but nearly 950,000 profiles created w/o purchases… that means people are getting in and accessing the site and few folks are prepared to purchase health care four months in advance without shopping and number crunching… those numbers shouldn’t be discouraging.

Yes, and of course we all expect the numbers will go up. But that wont stop the current onslaught from the republicans and the media.

182 wrenchwench  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 2:46:32pm


‘Aboard’?

183 piratedan  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 2:46:41pm

re: #181 blueraven

Yes, and of course we all expect the numbers will go up. But that wont stop the current onslaught from the republicans and the media.

well tbh, we could have registered every single fucking american in the plan the R’s would bitch about something. Something as important as this and with folks that never had the choice, much less options before, I would imagine that they’re being as thrifty and getting as much data as they can before they sign up.

184 blueraven  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 2:47:11pm

re: #180 Targetpractice

And? Enrollment period doesn’t end for another five months. I’d have been shocked if everybody who was going to sign up before then did so in the first month.

TP, please let us not hide our heads in the sand. This is not good news right now. Yes, we all think it will be better but it is not helpful at the moment.
The 24/7 news media loves to pile on and you know that.
It is way below the target enrollment and the broken website has a lot to do with it.

185 Decatur Deb  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 2:47:37pm

re: #180 Targetpractice

And? Enrollment period doesn’t end for another five months. I’d have been shocked if everybody who was going to sign up before then did so in the first month.

If the number fail in the early months, the Mar surge will really tax the shaky computer and the ground-level enrollment workers.

186 Decatur Deb  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 2:48:08pm

re: #182 wrenchwench

[Embedded content]


‘Aboard’?

Yes—Marine talk.

187 Kragar  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 2:48:21pm

re: #182 wrenchwench

[Embedded content]


‘Aboard’?

The USMC is a naval service so aboard is how they refer to being on station.

188 wrenchwench  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 2:50:32pm

re: #186 Decatur Deb

re: #187 Kragar

Thanks.

189 Backwoods_Sleuth  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 2:50:55pm

re: #171 blueraven

Ugh…healthcare dot gov numbers are in.

From Oct 1 - Nov 2
approximately:
106,000 total enrolled
27,000 from federal exchange

Numbers look pretty good so far for Kynect

190 Targetpractice  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 2:51:01pm

re: #184 blueraven

TP, please let us not hide our heads in the sand. This is not good news right now. Yes, we all think it will be better but it is not helpful at the moment.
The 24/7 news media loves to pile on and you know that.
It is way below the target enrollment and the broken website has a lot to do with it.

What would be good news? I have to agree with piratedan on this, even if enrollment numbers were on target, there would be bitching that it’s too low. Or they’d just turn focus back to the “millions” who are “losing” their insurance due to the “promise,” if they weren’t continuing to harp on the website.

Is it bad? Yes, it’s bad that we’re under target. But there’s no real turning back at this point. It’s continue forward and into the guns or retreat and pretty much give up on healthcare reform for another generation.

191 Decatur Deb  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 2:51:39pm

re: #189 Backwoods_Sleuth

Numbers look pretty good so far for Kynect

Because their governor isn’t a dimwit.

192 Political Atheist  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 2:51:48pm

Photo at link: Pittsburgh police sources: Brashear school shooting suspect is A.J. Willett, 16

twitter.com

193 Backwoods_Sleuth  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 2:52:32pm

re: #191 Decatur Deb

Because their governor isn’t a dimwit.

This is true. We have a decent governor.

194 Justanotherhuman  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 2:53:30pm

School shooting may have been drug related; fight earlier in Oct. Six people “of interest”…

twitter.com

195 Backwoods_Sleuth  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 2:54:22pm

I particularly like this stat for Kynect:

843 small businesses have started applications for health insurance for employees. 309 of those businesses have completed applications and are eligible to offer coverage to employees.

196 AlexRogan  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 2:54:43pm

re: #190 Targetpractice

What would be good news? I have to agree with piratedan on this, even if enrollment numbers were on target, there would be bitching that it’s too low. Or they’d just turn focus back to the “millions” who are “losing” their insurance due to the “promise,” if they weren’t continuing to harp on the website.

Is it bad? Yes, it’s bad that we’re under target. But there’s no real turning back at this point. It’s continue forward and into the guns or retreat and pretty much give up on healthcare reform for another generation.

If ever, depending on how successful the anti-reform forces are in poisoning the well.

Vigilance and education must stay high on our side; it’s definitely do-or-die time.

197 Targetpractice  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 2:55:23pm

re: #189 Backwoods_Sleuth

Numbers look pretty good so far for Kynect

Josh Marshall looked at the numbers and pointed out the painfully obvious, that three times as many people signed up from the third of the population that lives in states with exchanges than were signed up through the federal exchange. Is the website a mess? Certainly. But even if the website had been well designed, it was still intended from the start to only be a back-up, not the primary means for 2/3 of the US uninsured population to find a policy.

198 wrenchwench  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 2:55:28pm

re: #184 blueraven

TP, please let us not hide our heads in the sand. This is not good news right now. Yes, we all think it will be better but it is not helpful at the moment.
The 24/7 news media loves to pile on and you know that.
It is way below the target enrollment and the broken website has a lot to do with it.

199 blueraven  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 2:55:48pm

re: #190 Targetpractice

What would be good news? I have to agree with piratedan on this, even if enrollment numbers were on target, there would be bitching that it’s too low. Or they’d just turn focus back to the “millions” who are “losing” their insurance due to the “promise,” if they weren’t continuing to harp on the website.

Is it bad? Yes, it’s bad that we’re under target. But there’s no real turning back at this point. It’s continue forward and into the guns or retreat and pretty much give up on healthcare reform for another generation.

And I never suggested a retreat.
More like…time to fortify and face the headwinds. That is all.

200 Political Atheist  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 2:56:47pm

re: #177 piratedan

yeah but nearly 950,000 profiles created w/o purchases… that means people are getting in and accessing the site and few folks are prepared to purchase health care four months in advance without shopping and number crunching… those numbers shouldn’t be discouraging.

It’s the usual media bullshit, as always it’s the numbers that THEY don’t report

THIS THIS THIS
That would be me, if via the Calif. site. Start early, learn the options. plan a bit, then sign up. It’s not a freakin Amazon shopping spree. Expecting it to be treated as a sit down once and sign up for a doctor is killing it with unreasonable expectations.

Everyone it seems that wanted much more (Single Payer advocates) or much less (GOP) are now in the full time biz of bitching about it and not helping it.

201 Justanotherhuman  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 2:56:51pm

re: #192 Political Atheist

Photo at link: Pittsburgh police sources: Brashear school shooting suspect is A.J. Willett, 16

twitter.com

Male testosterone—how does that work? Maybe some estrogen would fix that.

202 Decatur Deb  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 2:57:35pm

re: #190 Targetpractice

What would be good news? I have to agree with piratedan on this, even if enrollment numbers were on target, there would be bitching that it’s too low. Or they’d just turn focus back to the “millions” who are “losing” their insurance due to the “promise,” if they weren’t continuing to harp on the website.

Is it bad? Yes, it’s bad that we’re under target. But there’s no real turning back at this point. It’s continue forward and into the guns or retreat and pretty much give up on healthcare reform for another generation.

November isn’t looking much better. We aren’t promised a working system until the 30th. It was the kind of promise the IT pukes can never deliver with a straight face. Still, better than it looks from Alabama. We might have under 700 enrolled.

Our governor is a dimwit.

montgomeryadvertiser.com

203 Targetpractice  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 2:58:42pm

re: #199 blueraven

And I never suggested a retreat.
More like…time to fortify and face the headwinds. That is all.

From where I sit, fortification would be to sit tight and wait to see where we stand come January. Wigging out at the first month’s numbers is not helpful and it’s why we have Democrats on Capital Hill now trying to help the GOP rip the heart of the ACA.

204 wrenchwench  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 2:59:00pm

re: #201 Justanotherhuman

Male testosterone—how does that work? Maybe some estrogen would fix that.

Estrogen can make people really violent.

205 Backwoods_Sleuth  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 2:59:50pm

re: #204 wrenchwench

Estrogen can make people really violent.

O.M.G. I’m trying to imagine a man with PMS…

206 Targetpractice  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 3:00:11pm

re: #205 Backwoods_Sleuth

O.M.G. I’m trying to imagine a man with PMS…

HULK SMASH!!!

//

207 blueraven  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 3:00:24pm

re: #203 Targetpractice

From where I sit, fortification would be to sit tight and wait to see where we stand come January. Wigging out at the first month’s numbers is not helpful and it’s why we have Democrats on Capital Hill now trying to help the GOP rip the heart of the ACA.

Denial is not cool either. I am not “wigging out” but not delusional either.

208 Bubblehead II  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 3:02:01pm

re: #112 Feline Fearless Leader

Federal Service. Would you like to know more?
/ ;)

+1 for the Star Ship Trooper referral.

209 wrenchwench  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 3:02:27pm

re: #205 Backwoods_Sleuth

O.M.G. I’m trying to imagine a man with PMS…

When I had PMS, if I had been given a big dose of testosterone at the same time, somebody would have died.

210 Kragar  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 3:04:04pm

re: #208 Bubblehead II

+1 for the Star Ship Trooper referral.

The Rifftrax version of that movie was a wonder to behold.

211 Targetpractice  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 3:05:26pm

re: #207 blueraven

Denial is not cool either. I am not “wigging out” but not delusional either.

I’m not in denial, I’m being realistic. And realistically, there’s no way forward that will please all sides. Website’s a mess, and that’s not going to be solved overnight. People are going to hold off, others will likely be getting letters from their own insurance companies in the months to come, and there’s going to be young folks who decide that paying the penalty is better. All in all, it’s a long road ahead and we got off to a bumpy start.

212 Backwoods_Sleuth  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 3:08:26pm

re: #211 Targetpractice

I’m not in denial, I’m being realistic. And realistically, there’s no way forward that will please all sides. Website’s a mess, and that’s not going to be solved overnight. People are going to hold off, others will likely be getting letters from their own insurance companies in the months to come, and there’s going to be young folks who decide that paying the penalty is better. All in all, it’s a long road ahead and we got off to a bumpy start.

Realistically, one of the aspects not being considered is that MANY people are not internet connected or are just not internet savvy enough to figure it out, even if the website was 100% perfect. That’s where Navigators, like Decatur Deb, become a huge part of the solution.

213 thedopefishlives  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 3:09:01pm

Evening Lizardim from the warm and clear wild north country. Not exactly the kind of news story I wanted to crash in my recliner to read. *deep sigh* Can we talk about gun control yet? And this coming from an ardent pro-gun supporter, which ought to tell you guys something. I’m annoyed also at all the people complaining about the Obamacare website; as a techie, it really bugs me because building a system that would support a load of 26.8 MILLION PEOPLE PER MONTH and getting it right on the first try is somewhat of a taller order than anyone seems to realize. How go things in the land of the lizardfolk?

214 Backwoods_Sleuth  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 3:11:10pm

re: #213 thedopefishlives

Evening Lizardim from the warm and clear wild north country. Not exactly the kind of news story I wanted to crash in my recliner to read. *deep sigh* Can we talk about gun control yet? And this coming from an ardent pro-gun supporter, which ought to tell you guys something. I’m annoyed also at all the people complaining about the Obamacare website; as a techie, it really bugs me because building a system that would support a load of >26.8 MILLION PEOPLE PER MONTH and getting it right on the first try is somewhat of a taller order than anyone seems to realize. How go things in the land of the lizardfolk?

Doing good here, so far. Last night’s low temp dipped below 20F and the plumbing didn’t freeze, house stayed warm, woodstove did good.
All in all, a satisfying result.

215 AlexRogan  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 3:14:29pm

re: #212 Backwoods_Sleuth

Realistically, one of the aspects not being considered is that MANY people are not internet connected or are just not internet savvy enough to figure it out, even if the website was 100% perfect. That’s where Navigators, like Decatur Deb, become a huge part of the solution.

One that Cornyn, with the “help” of O’Keefe and other RWNJs, is trying to neuter or kill.

216 AlexRogan  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 3:15:01pm

re: #209 wrenchwench

When I had PMS, if I had been given a big dose of testosterone at the same time, somebody would have died.

Ripping out hearts like that guy in Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom, huh?

/KALI MA!

217 Backwoods_Sleuth  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 3:15:33pm

re: #215 AlexRogan

One that Cornyn, with the “help” of O’Keefe and other RWNJs, is trying to neuter or kill.

But of course. It’s not enough that they can’t just stick with the actual downside, they have to go out and invent something else.

218 Kragar  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 3:16:56pm
219 Backwoods_Sleuth  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 3:17:23pm

re: #218 Kragar

[Embedded content]

yay for you!

220 Backwoods_Sleuth  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 3:22:50pm

wow…coyote howling right across the creek from my front porch.
Dogs are NOT happy…

221 AlexRogan  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 3:22:58pm

re: #155 Targetpractice

Never again would it flash “PC Load Letter” at an innocent office worker.

//

re: #157 GeneJockey

On the plus side, like a dead musician, it’ll never jam again.

re: #164 Eclectic Cyborg

PC load letter? What the fuck does that mean?!

Image: officespace_printer.jpg

222 wrenchwench  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 3:23:28pm
223 Dr Lizardo  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 3:29:25pm

re: #205 Backwoods_Sleuth

O.M.G. I’m trying to imagine a man with PMS…

Ever see Stanley Kubrick’s “The Shining”?

224 GeneJockey  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 3:40:38pm

Goodbye, Cruel World! Later Lizards.

I’m off to what I expect to be a wonderful, 90 minute Massage, and YOU CAN’T HAVE ANY!!!!

HAHAHAHAHAA!!!!!

225 Justanotherhuman  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 3:43:25pm

re: #204 wrenchwench

Estrogen can make people really violent.

That depends on a lot of lifestyle factors, including menstrual dysphoria; I never knew anyone who got violent, although painful cramps can make you grumpy as hell. I think much of it is myth. At any rate, women don’t resort to the kind of violence men do nearly as often or as deadly. I’m not saying it’s all biological, a lot of it is socialization, such as the trend for women to be equally “tough” by imitating male methods of offensive behavior (I’m not talking about methods of self-defense). Well, it’s probably something we could argue about ad infinitum concerning behavior and the factors that shape it.

health.nytimes.com

226 Justanotherhuman  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 3:51:48pm

re: #223 Dr Lizardo

Ever see Stanley Kubrick’s “The Shining”?

Loved that movie. : )

227 Achilles Tang  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 3:54:34pm

re: #177 piratedan

re: #177 piratedan

yeah but nearly 950,000 profiles created w/o purchases… that means people are getting in and accessing the site and few folks are prepared to purchase health care four months in advance without shopping and number crunching… those numbers shouldn’t be discouraging.

It’s the usual media bullshit, as always it’s the numbers that THEY don’t report

I’ve just spent all afternoon trying to make sense of the the options available from the ACA. 102 to be precise. As you say, why enrole now if one has until March, or January 1st if one has no insurance, or doesn’t think one needs it now.

The problem is making sense of the coverages in relation to the premiums/deductibles/out-of-pocket which are all over the place for comparable premiums. Some are in state only, some have national plans. Some have (in higher brackets) no deductible and low OO pocket, while others with higher numbers there have similar premiums. It’s not hard if one has a maximum affordable premium, or deductible, or out of pocket, but in between it’s a problem picking a plan. I won’t until December.

Also, regarding the cancellation issue, it actually affects “grandfathered” policies pre 2010 also, for 2014 only, because while those may continue with the same basic terms, they will increase in cost because they actually do have ACA conditions attached. Mine for 2014 will increase by almost $100 per month for those reasons. (on the other hand premiums have anyway increased by 33% in the past 3 years; what else is new?).

The new ACA policies, from the same insurer, are similar at similar levels (see comparison difficulty above) but they do have non cancellation for arbitrary reasons, or maximum limits, which is important. I’m not sure if the grandfathered policies have that or not. Note to self. Check.

Finally there is the matter of tax subsidy. In the case of the self employed or partially retired predicting 2014 income can be tricky. If it is a fair bit less than about $66k (which I suspect many individuals will be) then the tax subsidy for the premiums can be substantial and depending what policy it is applied to it can bring a gold plan into the same premium range as a bronze or silver plan, which is probably what most pre ACA policies have been. Of course if the income is higher then one has to pay it pack from taxes, but if one doesn’t take the subsidy at the begining I doubt it is refunded. Note to self. Check.

If anyone has corrections or additions, I’d love to see them.

228 wrenchwench  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 4:01:59pm

re: #225 Justanotherhuman

That depends on a lot of lifestyle factors, including menstrual dysphoria; I never knew anyone who got violent, although painful cramps can make you grumpy as hell. I think much of it is myth. At any rate, women don’t resort to the kind of violence men do nearly as often or as deadly. I’m not saying it’s all biological, a lot of it is socialization, such as the trend for women to be equally “tough” by imitating male methods of offensive behavior (I’m not talking about methods of self-defense). Well, it’s probably something we could argue about ad infinitum concerning behavior and the factors that shape it.

health.nytimes.com

I meant if you give estrogen to men, it can increase violent tendencies. But I can find nothing to back myself up. I thought I read that somewhere, sometime ago…..

229 Backwoods_Sleuth  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 4:10:16pm

re: #227 Achilles Tang

This is another example of where a Navigator like Decatur Deb is a great resource.

230 Decatur Deb  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 4:10:40pm

re: #227 Achilles Tang

I’ve just spent all afternoon trying to make sense of the the options available from the ACA. 102 to be precise. As you say, why enrole now if one has until March, or January 1st if one has no insurance, or doesn’t think one needs it now.

The problem is making sense of the coverages in relation to the premiums/deductibles/out-of-pocket which are all over the place for comparable premiums. Some are in state only, some have national plans. Some have (in higher brackets) no deductible and low OO pocket, while others with higher numbers there have similar premiums. It’s not hard if one has a maximum affordable premium, or deductible, or out of pocket, but in between it’s a problem picking a plan. I won’t until December.

Also, regarding the cancellation issue, it actually affects “grandfathered” policies pre 2010 also, for 2014 only, because while those may continue with the same basic terms, they will increase in cost because they actually do have ACA conditions attached. Mine for 2014 will increase by almost $100 per month for those reasons. (on the other hand premiums have anyway increased by 33% in the past 3 years; what else is new?).

The new ACA policies, from the same insurer, are similar at similar levels (see comparison difficulty above) but they do have non cancellation for arbitrary reasons, or maximum limits, which is important. I’m not sure if the grandfathered policies have that or not. Note to self. Check.

Finally there is the matter of tax subsidy. In the case of the self employed or partially retired predicting 2014 income can be tricky. If it is a fair bit less than about $66k (which I suspect many individuals will be) then the tax subsidy for the premiums can be substantial and depending what policy it is applied to it can bring a gold plan into the same premium range as a bronze or silver plan, which is probably what most pre ACA policies have been. Of course if the income is higher then one has to pay it pack from taxes, but if one doesn’t take the subsidy at the begining I doubt it is refunded. Note to self. Check.

If anyone has corrections or additions, I’d love to see them.

From what I have, not taking any or all of the premium tax break just means you get the difference at the end of the tax year. Navigators encourage buyers to set back a bit so they don’t get burned in April—important if they live check to check. Watch the timing on your decision—there is going to be a late rush that could bog the ACA system and the insurer’s capacity.

231 Backwoods_Sleuth  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 4:10:57pm

Good reason to not wear dresses…

232 Learned Pie Of Zion  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 4:11:00pm

Incoming hatchling—possible sock.

233 Backwoods_Sleuth  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 4:12:08pm

re: #232 Vicious Babushka

Incoming hatchling—possible sock.

bwahahaaa, ya think so?

234 thedopefishlives  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 4:12:30pm

re: #232 Vicious Babushka

Incoming hatchling—possible sock.

Ay, what?

235 wrenchwench  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 4:12:59pm

re: #234 thedopefishlives

Ay, what?

New Registration: ObamaIsPinocchio

236 Learned Pie Of Zion  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 4:13:06pm

It won’t last long.

237 thedopefishlives  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 4:13:37pm

re: #236 Vicious Babushka

It won’t last long.

Yeah, I can almost hear the whistle of the banhammer.

238 wrenchwench  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 4:15:05pm

re: #236 Vicious Babushka

It won’t last long.

Probably not even long enough for me to figure out what Obamals are.

/

239 Dr Lizardo  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 4:15:40pm

re: #226 Justanotherhuman

Loved that movie. : )

I was watching it the other night with a friend, and she noted all the little “continuity errors” that Kubrick threw in to disorient the viewer.

Heh….she’s still pondering the meaning of the photograph at the very end of the film; the last shot. The July 4th Ball, 1921, at the Overlook Hotel.

She’s like, “WTF?”

240 b_sharp  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 4:19:19pm

re: #228 wrenchwench

I meant if you give estrogen to men, it can increase violent tendencies. But I can find nothing to back myself up. I thought I read that somewhere, sometime ago…..

Old age gets you every time.

241 Achilles Tang  Wed, Nov 13, 2013 7:10:02pm

re: #230 Decatur Deb

Good points. Thanks.


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