1 Kragar  Thu, Nov 28, 2013 8:33:22pm
2 Joanne  Thu, Nov 28, 2013 8:38:32pm

A very Happy Thanksgiving one and all.

Now it’s off to bed with me.

3 jaunte  Thu, Nov 28, 2013 8:43:50pm
4 wrenchwench  Thu, Nov 28, 2013 8:45:54pm

The gobbler cobbler was good. The mincemeat pie was good. The pumpkin tarts and the pumpkin custard were good. Didn’t even cut into the pumpkin pie.

Upside of making a turkey pot pie for Thanksgiving: it’s already leftovers. Downside: it’s more work than turkey, stuffing, mashed potatoes, and gravy.

5 Lidane  Thu, Nov 28, 2013 8:48:32pm
6 Single-handed sailor  Thu, Nov 28, 2013 9:10:54pm

I may make a pot of sumatra coffee and indulge in a slice of upside down pumpkin pie, now… maybe… if I can get up off my ass.

7 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Nov 28, 2013 9:27:53pm

Good Black Friday one and all!

Back from traipsing about for dinners at two locations and then visiting a practically empty bar* to watch the late football game. Ate too much delicious food, drank more alcohol than I should had, the Steelers lost, but it was a very enjoyable evening spent in good company.

Plenty of pie leftover for the next couple of days. Plus some spanikopita as well.

* - Owner was running the place by himself. All the employees had been given the day off.

8 Charles Johnson  Thu, Nov 28, 2013 9:31:48pm
9 Charles Johnson  Thu, Nov 28, 2013 9:32:19pm
10 klys  Thu, Nov 28, 2013 9:37:50pm

Despite the turkey not being fully thawed (and therefore not getting fully flattened) and worrying about undercooking it (so it got microwaved some, and probably a little too much) and then dumped on the stove (…I really have no excuse for that one, it slid off the plate), and accidentally putting in the remnants of the half-cup of flour for dregging the turkey in into the sauce instead of the 1 tablespoon it called for (I poured in the rest of the apple juice and chicken broth to compensate)…

dinner was still good.

Oh, and I burned the garlic for the green beans while dealing with the turkey dumped on the stove.

11 jaunte  Thu, Nov 28, 2013 9:38:23pm

“The publicly funded broadcaster has a poor track record of disclosing information and a nasty habit of hiding behind one clause of the Access to Information Act that allows it to withhold info it feels would compromise its journalistic integrity, creativity or programming activities.”

12 klys  Thu, Nov 28, 2013 9:39:29pm

re: #11 jaunte

“The publicly funded broadcaster has a poor track record of disclosing information and a nasty habit of hiding behind one clause of the Access to Information Act that allows it to withhold info it feels would compromise its journalistic integrity, creativity or programming activities.”

If we don’t tell anyone, our integrity isn’t compromised!!!

////

No really, guys, it doesn’t work that way.

13 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Nov 28, 2013 9:49:03pm

Courtesy of my brother, who found it somewhere.

Image: Thank_Evolution.jpg

14 People For The Ethical Treatment Of Sarah Palin  Thu, Nov 28, 2013 9:50:34pm

re: #3 jaunte

Hahaha!

15 chadu  Thu, Nov 28, 2013 10:13:18pm

re: #10 dr. klys

Despite the turkey not being fully thawed (and therefore not getting fully flattened) and worrying about undercooking it (so it got microwaved some, and probably a little too much) and then dumped on the stove (…I really have no excuse for that one, it slid off the plate), and accidentally putting in the remnants of the half-cup of flour for dregging the turkey in into the sauce instead of the 1 tablespoon it called for (I poured in the rest of the apple juice and chicken broth to compensate)…

dinner was still good.

Oh, and I burned the garlic for the green beans while dealing with the turkey dumped on the stove.

W00t!

Here was my meal:
littlegreenfootballs.com

Also, my faith in humanity was restored. People helped me out of a bad spot. Like, within 12 hrs.

Utterly thankful.

16 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Nov 28, 2013 10:37:26pm

Brined a large duck overnight, gyoza and soy sauce marinade with a whole diced sweet onion, garlic and chives thrown in because I had way too many chives. Add water to needed volume and then kosher salt to flavor.

After marinade took duck and lightly oiled and covered it in rosemarie and some Chukar Dave’s seasoning, stuffed orange slices in the cavity, pricked some shallow holes all over the skin, trussed it up and cooked it on the rotisserie in the garage for a few hours. Got something like two quarts of fat in the drip pan. Delicious, got the legs, thighs and breasts all nice and juicy with crispy skin.

Also mashed potatoes with more garlic and chives, au jus gravy reduction. Giblets and neck pan cooked with bacon. Sour cream.

Dutch apple pie.

I’m all like, fuck cooking turkey. Green beans and cranberry sauce too, fuck all that, you want that shit go somewhere else.

17 dog philosopher  Thu, Nov 28, 2013 11:07:41pm

transcription, louis armstrong’s part, potato head blues

maybe after a few thousand times through i’ll be able to play it at speed

louis armstrong’s hot five recording of potato head blues

18 GeneJockey  Thu, Nov 28, 2013 11:53:13pm

Bird stuffing (i.e. the stuffing that cooked in the Turkey, not in a casserole) - GONE. Younger boy just broke into the first casserole.

Pumpkin Pie #1 - GONE. Older boy ate 3/8 of it.

And it was only the 4 of us.

19 GeneJockey  Thu, Nov 28, 2013 11:53:48pm

Oh, and I plan to ride it off tomorrow. I think I’ll have to ride to China….

21 Kragar  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 1:34:18am
22 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 1:36:25am

coupons everyone can use:

Walgreens Black Friday Coupons. I’d print more than one.

23 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 1:37:26am

I C U FLORAL!

You have been trying to hide behind that light pole!

24 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 1:38:18am

You know, it’s #BlackHoleFriday!

25 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 1:54:55am

re: #21 Kragar

The Pope apparently is reading a different Koran than the one Muslims use

Because Bryan knows that there is only one way to read any scriptures, and that is the correct way.

26 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 2:55:07am

Happy Post-Mortem Turkey Day, everyone!

Had a wonderful family & friends gathering! Not one harsh word, no one drank a drop (even though I offered beer)—it was all about dinner which was pronounced the best ever. Everything came out perfectly, but I had a hell of a backache which had persisted for 3 days. Set my son and his boss up for another couple of meals to take home, along w/a whole apple pie. My sons got along fine and they all went outside to smoke cigars and chat afterward. Everyone is finally grown up. My g-son even brought his awesome computer he built into the LR and got the Green Bay game on TV (we don’t have cable and he found someone live streaming it from his own TV). A great time was had by all, everyone else took over clean up chores, and I was able to take a nap later. This morning, the back is much better. Think I may have pulled something moving furniture and getting down on hands and knees the other day cleaning under it. Oh, well, old age is hell sometimes. Will have to change my habit of charging ahead, getting things done, and start asking for help with that kind of stuff. For me, that’s going to be hard but you have to let go sometimes, for everyone’s sake.

Hope everyone had as wonderful a day as we all did. : )

27 Decatur Deb  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 2:59:50am

Left links to ISON’s resurrection at RG’s page. It’s diminished, but seems to be emerging and still active.

28 freetoken  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 3:07:47am
29 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 3:15:19am

We have moved out Thanksgiving celebration in Germany to Saturday, and Sunday is the First Sunday in Advent, which marks the start of the Christmas season here.

There is a bit of seasonal creep, but in General, they keep a lid on it until the fourth Sunday before Xmas.

30 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 3:34:37am

re: #29 Sol Berdinowitz

We have moved out Thanksgiving celebration in Germany to Saturday, and Sunday is the First Sunday in Advent, which marks the start of the Christmas season here.

There is a bit of seasonal creep, but in General, they keep a lid on it until the fourth Sunday before Xmas.

Other than seeing the xmas trees already for sale on Wed at the supermarket, I haven’t seen many signs of encroaching xmas. But I don’t go to malls and such, either, very much. I always wait until after the first of Dec to put up any decorations, more like 2 wks before, actually, and they’re down by New Years, so about 3 wks total. It’s all about the bright, shiny objects and the color during the bleak period of Winter Solstice.

31 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 3:36:21am

Our local grocery store was carrying Christmas chocolates and gingerbread at the end of September, but the decorations don’t go up until Advent, which starts on Sunday.

32 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 3:55:39am

December Solstice Traditions and Customs

timeanddate.com

So, yes, I celebrate “Yule” more than xmas. I’m not a Pagan or Wiccan, although I’ve been called a Heathen on occasion.

Ten Christmas Customs with Pagan Roots

paganwiccan.about.com

33 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 4:02:21am

I did a search on ebay to find some more ohm charms and found that besides the hindu/yoga origins, they are now listed as wiccan as well.

WTF?

34 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 4:05:45am

Thankfully, no employees were hurt or killed.

Key Bangladesh garments factory destroyed in blaze

uk.reuters.com

(Reuters) - A devastating fire ripped through a Bangladesh garment factory supplying major Western retailers, police and industry officials said on Friday, in a blaze set by workers angered over rumours of a colleague’s death in police firing.

(snip)

“But a series of deadly incidents, including a building collapse that killed more than 1,100 people in April, has sparked global concern over weak safety standards in the country’s $22-billion garment industry.

“There were no reports of casualties in Friday’s fire, which gutted a ten-storey building at Gazipur, 40 km (25 miles) north of the capital, Dhaka.”

35 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 4:09:24am

re: #33 FemNaziBitch

I did a search on ebay to find some more ohm charms and found that besides the hindu/yoga origins, they are now listed as wiccan as well.

WTF?

Wicca can be pretty eclectic and can appropriate symbols and rituals from other traditional practices.

36 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 4:12:44am

re: #23 FemNaziBitch

I C U FLORAL!

You have been trying to hide behind that light pole!

Giggles!

37 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 4:12:45am

Well, this is certainly a bruhaha in Britain, I guess.

Seems a convoluted way to blame the victim, but that’s just me.

38 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 4:14:43am
39 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 4:18:43am

re: #37 FemNaziBitch

Well, this is certainly a bruhaha in Britain, I guess.

Seems a convoluted way to blame the victim, but that’s just me.

Pretty lurid stuff, actually.

40 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 4:21:59am

re: #39 Justanotherhuman

Pretty lurid stuff, actually.

yeah. There seems to be many tangents to the story, none of which justify domestic violence.

The comments are crazy.

41 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 4:23:10am

I keep getting “sexy girls” tweets —I guess anyone with my profile is considered a lesbian by some.

Lesbian who wants to see porn …

I’m just not in the mood for the marketing.

42 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 4:24:45am
43 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 4:31:20am

$15 minimum wage passes in SeaTac

SEATAC — As supporters of a $15 minimum wage for workers in and around Seattle-Tacoma International Airport declared victory Tuesday, opponents made clear the fight is far from over.

Common Sense SeaTac, a business-backed political committee opposed to SeaTac Proposition 1’s $15 minimum wage, said it will ask for a recount by hand to ensure “the most accurate possible” results.

The announcement came on the same day the King County Canvassing Board ruled that Proposition 1 officially won by 77 votes out of 6,003.

44 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 4:34:31am

re: #43 FemNaziBitch

That deserves to get paged!

45 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 4:44:25am

re: #43 FemNaziBitch

$15 minimum wage passes in SeaTac

SEATAC — As supporters of a $15 minimum wage for workers in and around Seattle-Tacoma International Airport declared victory Tuesday, opponents made clear the fight is far from over.

Common Sense SeaTac, a business-backed political committee opposed to SeaTac Proposition 1’s $15 minimum wage, said it will ask for a recount by hand to ensure “the most accurate possible” results.

The announcement came on the same day the King County Canvassing Board ruled that Proposition 1 officially won by 77 votes out of 6,003.

Say goodby to fast food at SeaTac…

46 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 4:47:33am

re: #44 Dancing along the light of day

That deserves to get paged!

ok

47 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 4:53:41am

“What happened to the Subway? I wanted to get some thing to eat before my flight started boarding.”

“It closed because its profits tanked. The the public made the franchise owners pay more than the job was worth.”

48 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 4:58:24am

Do you have any idea how much the franchise owners of Subway make?

Do you have any idea how much Fred Deluca is worth?

Your statement is bullshit.

49 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 5:00:19am

re: #47 Dark_Falcon

“What happened to the Subway? I wanted to get some thing to eat before my flight started boarding.”

“It closed because its profits tanked. The the public made the franchise owners pay more than the job was worth.”

Would you like to make a bet, Dark? You’re making a prediction, that fast food restaurants will close in SeaTac because of a rise in minimum wage. I’ll take the opposite side: fast food will remain in SeaTac. What would you like to wager? I’d be perfectly satisfied with a wager of, say, you writing out an honest explanation of why you were wrong.

To give you some hints that this would be a bad bet to take: The profits of airport fast-food franchises are gigantic, because they have a highly captive market and jack the prices to fuck. A large part of their costs is the rent that they pay to the airport, and the airport can lower that rent to keep them profitable, and they would, rather than see the stores go out of business. However, they won’t have to, because, as I said, airport fast food franchises make a bundle.

So, would you like to take the bet? I’m happy to wager money, too.

Oh, and something that may help you realize your reaction is pure ideology with no actual economic backing: When you hear a CEO had his salary raised by ten million, you don’t instantly assume the company is going to be in trouble. Ask yourself why.

50 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 5:01:20am

re: #45 Dark_Falcon

Say goodby to fast food at SeaTac…

my god, we will see people starving at airports for lack of cheap fast food…

51 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 5:02:17am

I’m going to bed.

52 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 5:04:35am

hungry?

53 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 5:10:56am

re: #49 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

I’m not a betting man, Obdi. I’m too unwilling to admit defeat to gamble.

54 Romantic Heretic  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 5:13:28am

re: #8 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

I suspect that the CBC believes it is fighting back against Our Dear Leader’s attempts to destroy it.

Case in point, the recent Hockey Night in Canada deal. Hockey Night in Canada is an iconic show that CBC has been running forever. Since before there was television. It is a major source of income for them.

Now that is gone, and with it all of the revenue that the show brings in. That means that a lot of the other programming that the CBC creates will also be gone soon. And before long the CBC will be gone.

As Our Dear leader wants. Like all conservatives he hates public television networks.

I suspect the news that the CNC released about Our Dear Leader and the NSA is their counterstrike.

55 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 5:16:00am

re: #53 Dark_Falcon

I’m not a betting man, Obdi. I’m too unwilling to admit defeat to gamble.

Can you provide me with any facts and figures to show that you’re actually making an economic argument not not just shouting ideology? Do you know, for example, the average profitability of airport franchises? Do you know that some in-and-out locations pay their average floor employees around $13 an hour?

Can you show your work, at all, or did you not actually do any work, did you not actually spend time thinking about the economic realities of the situation?

56 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 5:22:28am

Wages are just an expense, like toner for the copier, paper clips or toilet paper. The lower you keep them, the higher the profit and the more money to put into bonuses for the geniuses who keep the company running.

Raise wages, you raise costs, and if people cannot get a 99-cent hamburger, they are not going to go out for fast food.

What more do you need to know about economics?

57 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 5:23:07am

re: #54 Romantic Heretic

I suspect that the CBC believes it is fighting back against Our Dear Leader’s attempts to destroy it.

Case in point, the recent Hockey Night in Canada deal. Hockey Night in Canada is an iconic show that CBC has been running forever. Since before there was television. It is a major source of income for them.

Now that is gone, and with it all of the revenue that the show brings in. That means that a lot of the other programming that the CBC creates will also be gone soon. And before long the CBC will be gone.

As Our Dear leader wants. Like all conservatives he hates public television networks.

I suspect the news that the CNC released about Our Dear Leader and the NSA is their counterstrike.

It won’t work, since CNC has chosen a egomaniacal flake to get in bed with. Most Canadians, like most Britons, know who the enemy is, and its not the NSA.

58 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 5:25:11am

re: #55 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

I’m being ideological.

59 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 5:26:35am

re: #58 Dark_Falcon

I’m being ideological.

And theological: Supply-Side Jesus supports your views!

60 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 5:29:22am

re: #59 Sol Berdinowitz

And theological: Supply-Side Jesus supports your views!

I do not claim religious justification, so that is non-operational.

61 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 5:33:16am

re: #59 Sol Berdinowitz

I do, however, have a philosophical objection to a referendum that mandates a wage increase, especially one backed by labor unions. It seems to me said unions using their organizational capabilities to vote themselves monies from someone else’s pocket. That’s redistributionism, and I’m against it.

62 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 5:34:36am

re: #45 Dark_Falcon

Say goodby to fast food at SeaTac…

I had to downding you for this outstanding lack of analytic rigor.

63 Dr Lizardo  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 5:37:52am

Meanwhile, the Dail Mail (UK) is breathlessly tut-tutting about “Black Friday” coming to Britain. The comments are…..typical, I guess for DM readers. I noticed what D_F said about the sometimes reflexive anti-Americanism that pops up from time to time in the British media.

We don’t have “Black Friday” in the Czech Republic, but the shopping centers here will certainly be crowded from this point until Christmas Eve. Think I’ll do my best to avoid the malls if I can, and I’ll have to check out the Christmas Market at Masarýkovo Naměstí when I’m next downtown.

64 Dr Lizardo  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 5:38:37am

re: #63 Dr Lizardo

Oops…..forgot the link.

dailymail.co.uk

65 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 5:39:26am

re: #58 Dark_Falcon

I’m being ideological.

Thank you for admitting that.

A corollary question: at what level of wealth division between ‘poor’ and ‘rich’ are you willing to admit the system actually needs redistribution? How vast does the gulf have to be, how destitute do the poor and how uselessly wealthy do the rich have to be?

66 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 5:40:26am

re: #47 Dark_Falcon

“What happened to the Subway? I wanted to get some thing to eat before my flight started boarding.”

“It closed because its profits tanked. The the public made the franchise owners pay more than the job was worth.”

They can afford to - the may chose not to and if so deserve to go out of business - but they can afford to. Costco is proof of the pudding in this case.

It’s like the CEOs - there isn’t a single one in America right now that deserves greater than 12 times the minimum wage. Not a single one.

Likewise no one should work in “fast food” and not make a living wage.

67 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 5:41:01am

re: #61 Dark_Falcon

I do, however, have a philosophical objection to a referendum that mandates a wage increase, especially one backed by labor unions. It seems to me said unions using their organizational capabilities to vote themselves monies from someone else’s pocket. That’s redistributionism, and I’m against it.

Downding for anti-worker sentiment and lack of understanding of the theory of surplus value from labor.

But it’s perfectly all right for corporations to organize in order to use someone else’s pockets to further their aims and gamble for a return on their investment?

If you think company owners or investors actually earn all their profits and dividends by the sweat of their own brows, I have a bridge in Alaska to sell you.

68 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 5:49:26am

re: #64 Dr Lizardo

Oops…..forgot the link.

dailymail.co.uk

Ah yes, iirc, Asda stores are owned by WalMart. So, no surprise they’d be promoting this bullshit.

69 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 5:50:36am

re: #61 Dark_Falcon

I do, however, have a philosophical objection to a referendum that mandates a wage increase, especially one backed by labor unions. It seems to me said unions using their organizational capabilities to vote themselves monies from someone else’s pocket. That’s redistributionism, and I’m against it.

Why does our view of “individualsm” posit that individuals with limited resources should negotiate with multi-million dollar companies for terms of employment?

When investors band together and form a corporation to promote their interests, that is considered to be the very heartbeat of Free Enterprise, but when consumers or employees do it, it is “redistributionalism”.

Your ideological slip is showing.

70 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 5:53:00am

Morning Idiot:

Ted Cruz is not Sarah Palin. Not in the same league. Trying to overlook the craaaazzzyy, aren’t you, Joe?

71 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 5:53:19am

re: #69 Sol Berdinowitz

If its the union negotiating with the company, that’s one thing, but this is the union getting the public to force the company to give the union what it wants. Having a company lobby for a law that eliminated private-sector collective bargaining for health benefits would be the same sort of wrong thing.

72 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 5:54:51am

re: #71 Dark_Falcon

So you’re against minimum wage in general? Are you actually that reactionary? I mean, since your economics are just ideological, bearing no relationship with reality, I guess i shouldn’t be surprised by much of anything.

73 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 6:06:14am

re: #71 Dark_Falcon

If its the union negotiating with the company, that’s one thing, but this is the union getting the public to force the company to give the union what it wants. Having a company lobby for a law that eliminated private-sector collective bargaining for health benefits would be the same sort of wrong thing.

They are simply using the leverage available to them. I assume that the workers would all be fired if they tried to organize.

74 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 6:17:51am

re: #73 Sol Berdinowitz

They are simply using the leverage available to them. I assume that the workers would all be fired if they tried to organize.

By my read, some the workers are already organized. On what do you base your assumptions?

75 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 6:19:17am

re: #74 Dark_Falcon

Are you against any minimum wage?

76 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 6:21:48am

Shopping this time of year is turning into combat, not an optimal experience.

Cops: Shoplifting suspect shot after dragging officer

chicagotribune.com

You couldn’t pay me $1K an hour to go out today for such nonsense.

77 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 6:27:54am

WTFITS? Have some people completely lost their minds?

Former Lostprophets frontman Ian Watkins admits two charges of attempting to rape a baby but police fear he may have more victims

metro.co.uk

This really does make me want to cry.

78 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 6:29:31am

re: #75 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Are you against any minimum wage?

Ask again on a different day.

79 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 6:30:13am

re: #78 Dark_Falcon

Ask again on a different day.

Why? Do your opinions change from day to day on this, or what?

80 Flounder  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 6:34:05am

re: #13 Feline Fearless Leader

Signed in just to upding!
Good morning lizards, I hope all of you have enjoyed family time if you were lucky enough.

81 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 6:36:32am

re: #79 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Why? Do your opinions change from day to day on this, or what?

Because I want to figure something out before I put an answer to that kind of question in print.

82 lawhawk  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 6:41:02am

re: #21 Kragar

The Pope was reading from the Jefferson Koran of course.

83 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 6:41:41am

re: #81 Dark_Falcon

Because I want to figure something out before I put an answer to that kind of question in print.

Okay. I really don’t get why this isn’t something you’d already have an answer to, since it’s a pretty basic economic question.

What are you trying to figure out?

84 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 6:42:50am

More WTFITS.

Alleged cannabalism case, German police officer arrested

German police have arrested a fellow officer accused of killing a man, allegedly for the purpose of cannibalism. The case is reminiscent of trial that made international headlines a decade ago.

dw.de

“Police said that while the suspect, who is being held in investigative custody, had confessed to the killing, he had denied intending to eat his victim, even though the two had met on a web site catering to people with cannibalistic fantasies. (my emphasis)

“Dresden head of criminal investigations Maik Mainda told the press conference that until their web encounter the suspect and victim had “not known each other personally.”

“The agreement was that the killing should take place immediately,” Mainda said.”

I can’t even imagine “fantasizing” about something like that.

85 Flounder  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 6:44:03am

On Wednesday my dish warshing machine decided to barf all over (eff kitchenaide) so today its Black Friday shopping for a new one. Went to Sears and got a Kenmore, originally $1199, down to $359. That made my day! Now if I could just get the kids to put their dishes in it!

86 darthstar  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 6:47:26am

Mornin’ everyone. My Xmas season surprise is bound to roll some eyes this morning. Going golfing with the folks. Packed a Hawaiian style shirt with surfing Santa Clauses on it that I got last year too late to wear. Running joke with my wife is that I don’t get to put the lights on the house until after Thanksgiving. So I waited. This morning, I go full throttle.

87 Dr Lizardo  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 6:47:57am

re: #84 Justanotherhuman

The Germans. They’re kinky.

88 Iwouldprefernotto  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 6:48:20am

re: #85 Flounder

On Wednesday my dish warshing machine decided to barf all over (eff kitchenaide) so today its Black Friday shopping for a new one. Went to Sears and got a Kenmore, originally $1199, down to $359. That made my day! Now if I could just get the kids to put their dishes in it!

That would be a miracle…..

89 A Mom Anon  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 6:49:07am

re: #72 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Dark’s team jersey is showing again. Doesn’t matter if it’s right or wrong, as long as his team is winning it’s ok. If they’re not winning, it’s wrong.

I think deep down DF is a good guy, I just wish he would let go of the concept that if it’s labeled as liberal it’s automatically bad. Or if it’s labeled conservative it’s automatically good.

Explain DF, how it is that Costco can actually pay its workers an average wage of nearly 45K a year, while WalMart pays its workers an average half that and Costco is still doing just fine? Their prices are not higher, their merchandise any less varied, and yet Costco is much fairer and appreciative of their employees.

At least make a cogent argument Dark instead of breaking out the pom poms for your side with nothing to back it up.

90 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 6:50:45am

re: #85 Flounder

On Wednesday my dish warshing machine decided to barf all over (eff kitchenaide) so today its Black Friday shopping for a new one. Went to Sears and got a Kenmore, originally $1199, down to $359. That made my day! Now if I could just get the kids to put their dishes in it!

Don’t know how good Kenmore still is, but I have a Kenmore food processor from the early 1980s that’s still kicking. I had a Kitchenaid that wasn’t that great, also, considering the price at the time (’90s). But that was a huge markdown—hope it performs well for you.

91 lawhawk  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 6:50:57am

re: #61 Dark_Falcon

Wait a moment. So you’re also opposed to any effort to fight a referendum that enriches deep pockets, like say the Koch Brothers or any other deep pockets group that redistributes wealth by concentrating it in the hands of a few. Because redistribution of wealth is unacceptable as well? Or legislative votes that accomplish the same thing after lobbyists throw campaign contributions around to do the same thing?

On one side, you’ve willing to overlook the deep pockets individuals and groups who want to concentrate wealth in the hands of a few. On the other, you’re opposed to unions and groups that think that the economy benefits when everyone gets a living wage and those workers have more money to spend on buying goods and services produced by others. That same living wage reduces reliance on government programs that are part of the safety net (not only directly by not needing things like SNAP, but by paying more in taxes that goes to funding the safety net and other collective goods - like infrastructure, law enforcement, education, etc.)

Which makes more sense to support?

92 ObserverArt  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 6:53:42am

re: #61 Dark_Falcon

I do, however, have a philosophical objection to a referendum that mandates a wage increase, especially one backed by labor unions. It seems to me said unions using their organizational capabilities to vote themselves monies from someone else’s pocket. That’s redistributionism, and I’m against it.

And glutton-like profiteering is also redistribution too. Fairness doesn’t only go one way.

Dark, you always amaze me how you never seem to look at the opposite/negative side of many issues.

Everything cuts both ways…positive doesn’t exist without negative, etc.

I think the Chinese have a whole philosophy and image that speaks to all that…and it just happens to be centuries old.

93 Iwouldprefernotto  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 6:55:27am

re: #92 ObserverArt

And glutton-like profiteering is also redistribution too. Fairness doesn’t only go one way.

Dark, you always amaze me how you never seem to look at the opposite/negative side of many issues.

Everything cuts both ways…positive doesn’t exist without negative, etc.

I think the Chinese have a whole philosophy and image that speaks to all that…and it just happens to be centuries old.

But it’s ok to pay for food stamps for full time workers.

94 darthstar  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 6:56:08am

re: #79 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Why? Do your opinions change from day to day on this, or what?

I suspect he’s just trying not to get people riled up over the holidays by saying how he really feels.

Many people who don’t believe the minimum wage should be raised feel that way because all those people working for the minimum wage aren’t all that educated anyway, so why reward them for doing shit work? It’s a twisted sort of classism. The Subway will close because the poor owner won’t be able to afford to sell 12,000 dollars worth of food every week (and yes, busy ones do that kind of volume, I know first hand)…and all because those filthy creatures need a clutch job on their 2001 Rabbit.

Dear anti-minimum wage people: It’s okay to deny that you feel this way, but do be aware that it is the impression others get of you.

95 ObserverArt  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 6:56:34am

re: #63 Dr Lizardo

Meanwhile, the Dail Mail (UK) is breathlessly tut-tutting about “Black Friday” coming to Britain. The comments are…..typical, I guess for DM readers. I noticed what D_F said about the sometimes reflexive anti-Americanism that pops up from time to time in the British media.

We don’t have “Black Friday” in the Czech Republic, but the shopping centers here will certainly be crowded from this point until Christmas Eve. Think I’ll do my best to avoid the malls if I can, and I’ll have to check out the Christmas Market at Masarýkovo Naměstí when I’m next downtown.

Your post just reminded me, it is that time of the year to stay off certain streets/roads and away from certain zones of the Columbus Metro area that become very problematic.

96 darthstar  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 6:58:31am

re: #93 Iwouldprefernotto

But it’s ok to pay for food stamps for full time workers.

But not military Veterans. Fuck those slackers on welfare.

97 darthstar  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 7:00:11am
98 Dr Lizardo  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 7:00:27am

re: #95 ObserverArt

Your post just reminded me, it is that time of the year to stay off certain streets/roads and away from certain zones of the Columbus Metro area that become very problematic.

Last year, about two weeks before Christmas, I decided to be a brave soul and venture to Avion Shopping Park - the mall closest to me - to pick up a couple of things on sale at a grocery store there. Oh man……it was a zoo.

In 2001, I took the ex-wife to a shopping mall in the states for Black Friday, because she’d never experienced such a thing. She was both fascinated and horrified. She discovered Ross Dress For Less - she blew through I don’t know how many hundreds of dollars. She bought so much, she had to fork out for another suitcase to haul it all home with, lol.

99 thedopefishlives  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 7:00:54am

Morning Lizardim from the cold and cloudy wild north country. I trust that the overindulgences of yesterday have not completely dulled our wits, as the war on derp is still on in full force out there among the vast unwashed. How go things in this post-Thanksgiving turkopalypse?

100 darthstar  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 7:01:12am
101 ObserverArt  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 7:03:42am

re: #70 Justanotherhuman

Morning Idiot:

Ted Cruz is not Sarah Palin. Not in the same league. Trying to overlook the craaaazzzyy, aren’t you, Joe?

I haven’t been listening in to him as much lately, but have I detected a bit of softening in his pure Republicanism BS lately???

I could have sworn I heard him going against Mark Halperin’s stupid crap about Death Panels and citing examples of elderly parents that paid more medical coverage in the last months of life then their entire lives.

Maybe he is realizing he might not have that show too much longer or something…or that like many MSNBC shows ratings are down there in the someone left the TV on range and he needs to kiss some ass.

102 PhillyPretzel  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 7:04:21am

I got to King of Prussia and realized I forgot a few things. So now I am at Wegman’s and since it so quiet here I will be staying here for a little while. I have to check to see if they have a Bloomingdale’s gift card for my step-mother.

103 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 7:04:34am

The real War on Christmas. Wal-Mart, last night in Fort Worth, TX. Cops and chaos.

Youtube Video

We’re going to get used to people dying every year over this stupid artificial retail emergency.

104 darthstar  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 7:05:05am
105 Lord of the Pies  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 7:06:19am

re: #47 Dark_Falcon

“What happened to the Subway? I wanted to get some thing to eat before my flight started boarding.”

“It closed because its profits tanked. The the public made the franchise owners pay more than the job was worth.”

Those poor CEO’s, having thousands taken out of their billions.

106 A Mom Anon  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 7:07:55am

re: #91 lawhawk
The are analysis out there that every WalMart costs the taxpayers in the neighborhood of a million dollars per store, per year in “entitlements” for their underpaid employees and lost tax revenue because many stores don’t pay state or local taxes. How is that helping anyone but the Walton brats? How is that good for the community? A LOT of WalMart stores give their new hires info about how and where to apply for government benefits, how is that not costing the taxpayers money? WalMart isn’t going out of business for being fair, IT’S A CHOICE to behave that way.

107 darthstar  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 7:08:05am

re: #102 PhillyPretzel

I got to King of Prussia and realized I forgot a few things. So now I am at Wegman’s and since it so quiet here I will be staying here for a little while. I have to check to see if they have a Bloomingdale’s gift card for my step-mother.

Ever notice that gift cards never go on sale? WTF is up with that? And for us left coasters, what is King of Prussia? It sounds like a scene from a James Bond movie…incense, rattan baskets full of fruit, stacks of rugs, copper baubles…

108 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 7:08:06am

So if we pay our fast food workers more, then fewer people will be buying unhealthy food that leads to increased health care costs down the line?

There is something about this that is WRONG, I just can’t seem to put my finger on it…

109 darthstar  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 7:08:59am

re: #95 ObserverArt

Your post just reminded me, it is that time of the year to stay off certain streets/roads and away from certain zones of the Columbus Metro area that become very problematic.

19th Avenue in San Francisco is off limits until January.

110 darthstar  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 7:10:28am

re: #108 Sol Berdinowitz

So if we pay our fast food workers more, then fewer people will be buying unhealthy food that leads to increased health care costs down the line?

There is something about this that is WRONG, I just can’t seem to put my finger on it…

Or they’ll just buy more fast food and it’ll all be because Obamacare!
//

111 ObserverArt  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 7:10:54am

re: #83 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut

Okay. I really don’t get why this isn’t something you’d already have an answer to, since it’s a pretty basic economic question.

What are you trying to figure out?

I’m guessing that either Dark doesn’t want to dip into his own value set for fear of massive downdinging or he adjusts to fit in with a crowd. Both disturbing.

I’m not sure of Dark’s age bracket, but I am thinking in all of his history studying, he has never studied why unions were created in the first place, how they were violently opposed to protect the company profits and power and why the phrases “history repeats” was ever uttered.

Shaking head…and keeping in mind it is the holiday season and not to unload.

112 darthstar  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 7:11:15am

Oh, Spidey!

113 Lord of the Pies  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 7:12:52am

Only one day into the holiday weekend and already the family disagreements are raging.

My son actually has me considering a Macbook.

They are Teh Expensif.

114 thedopefishlives  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 7:13:57am

re: #113 Pumpkin Pie Of Zion

Only one day into the holiday weekend and already the family disagreements are raging.

My son actually has me considering a Macbook.

They are Teh Expensif.

Apple hardware is second to none. Its software is nondescript at best, but its hardware is absolutely top-tier. Of course, they charge through the nose for premium hardware.

115 Lord of the Pies  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 7:16:25am

Except I will also have to buy the Mac version of the Adobe software that I have been using for Windows. The upgrade price for Adobe suite is $375, buying the new suite is $1900.

116 darthstar  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 7:17:09am

re: #113 Pumpkin Pie Of Zion

Only one day into the holiday weekend and already the family disagreements are raging.

My son actually has me considering a Macbook.

They are Teh Expensif.

Once you go Mac you never go back. I was a Windows die hard for over 20 years…hated all things Mac. People can change. Having a terminal helps.

117 thedopefishlives  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 7:19:03am

re: #115 Pumpkin Pie Of Zion

Except I will also have to buy the Mac version of the Adobe software that I have been using for Windows. The upgrade price for Adobe suite is $375, buying the new suite is $1900.

Yeah, that definitely hurts. The thing of it is, there’s a reason UI nerds the world over have been using Mac since before it was an Intel processor. It’s truly made for the creative professional, if that’s the way you roll. Me, I do my best work on the backend, so I live in the raw Unix and Windows Server (shudder) world.

118 darthstar  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 7:19:25am
119 thedopefishlives  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 7:20:22am

Speaking of technology and gift cards, I finally found a use for the gift card I was given for my birthday last month. I’m finally joining the hipster movement and upgrading to a Bluetooth earpiece for my phone.

120 Stanley Sea  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 7:21:43am

Good morning! I went to my neighborhood starbucks to see the girls and get my morning fix and they were called in at 330 am - people waiting at the door. (supposed to open today at 4) Such bullshit.

121 darthstar  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 7:22:58am

re: #120 Stanley Sea

Good morning! I went to my neighborhood starbucks to see the girls and get my morning fix and they were called in at 330 am - people waiting at the door. (supposed to open today at 4) Such bullshit.

Black Coffee Friday

122 Lord of the Pies  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 7:22:58am

re: #117 thedopefishlives

Yeah, that definitely hurts. The thing of it is, there’s a reason UI nerds the world over have been using Mac since before it was an Intel processor. It’s truly made for the creative professional, if that’s the way you roll. Me, I do my best work on the backend, so I live in the raw Unix and Windows Server (shudder) world.

I do development work using Visual Studio and SQL Server, almost no front end work at all, so my professional environment is all Windows.

My son is a graphics designer and he lives in a Mac world.

123 ObserverArt  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 7:23:47am

re: #114 thedopefishlives

Apple hardware is second to none. Its software is nondescript at best, but its hardware is absolutely top-tier. Of course, they charge through the nose for premium hardware.

Religion costs more!

I’m on an XP box that cost me all of $600 bucks 11 years ago…no problems in all that time. But I have learned some tricks to keep ‘em ticking. Also have a Windoze 7 system that has been great.

/

124 PhillyPretzel  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 7:24:01am

re: #107 darthstar

King of Prussia is near Valley Forge, PA. In this case I am referring to the Court and the Plaza at King of Prussia Mall. The area was originally named for Frederick of Prussia and the name was used to draw the Hessian mercenaries into the line of fire to get them to surrender to the Colonials.

125 A Mom Anon  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 7:25:15am

re: #103 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce
This makes me sad. Fighting over shitty DVD players that will end up in a landfill before Spring Break? If I could just get The Husband to quit shopping at WalHell I’d consider that my civic duty for awhile.

We have two WalHell’s within 5 miles of each other in my neighborhood. The first one was built to be a Superstore, with a full grocery store, pharmacy, optical and hair salon. A couple years ago they literally walled off half that store, including the garden center and it sits empty (though they may use it for storage, but still it was a perfectly serviceable store). At the same time they built another Supercenter less than 5 miles down the road, on the SAME road that has all the features the original store does. It makes no freaking sense, even from a business standpoint. Except for the tax writeoff part. It’s a scam and we all pay for it.

126 lawhawk  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 7:25:46am

Dippity derp:

127 A Mom Anon  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 7:27:55am

re: #126 lawhawk
He’s not even trying anymore is he?

128 thedopefishlives  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 7:28:04am

re: #123 ObserverArt

Religion costs more!

I’m on an XP box that cost me all of $600 bucks 11 years ago…no problems in all that time. But I have learned some tricks to keep ‘em ticking. Also have a Windoze 7 system that has been great.

I have all Windows 7 boxes, except for my tower. The king of the manor is a Linux system that has a Win7 dual boot for when I want to slip into the World of Warcraft. I used to run it on Wine, but performance became somewhat of an issue and then it just plain broke, and I got impatient waiting for the Wine people to get around to fixing it.

130 ObserverArt  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 7:38:57am

re: #117 thedopefishlives

Yeah, that definitely hurts. The thing of it is, there’s a reason UI nerds the world over have been using Mac since before it was an Intel processor. It’s truly made for the creative professional, if that’s the way you roll. Me, I do my best work on the backend, so I live in the raw Unix and Windows Server (shudder) world.

Said it here before. Been using Windows since 1991 for graphics.

Sure there were many issues to face back then. Mostly due to the Mac domination and the thinking surrounding younger graphics artist that were raised with them in schools during the 80s.

Once I knew what the differences were and how to get around them, that all changed. Since the Pentium series came around Mid 90s that whole thing started to go away. Now, both platforms can be productive.

I don’t have a problem with Macs. I can use them too. But, I do question some of the thinking that surrounds them. I had to coin my own term “Macitude” to help laugh of all the comments I had to take being a Windoze user back then.

To me it is like two artist fighting over whether they use Grumbacher or Windsor & Newton artist brushes. All I care about is finished product and the art.

Now that I think of it, I do remember students back at art school fighting over brands. Some of them just couldn’t paint!

131 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 7:44:00am

My personal machines all run some form of Unix: Xubuntu if it’s new enough, OS X on my son’s PPC mac & BSDs on older hardware (though, alas, the pentium I bought to run Xenix on is too fast for the floppy drive timing loops…put DOS 6.22 & Win98SE for old games on it. Still trying to get a real OS for it though.)

My wife is running 7 on her laptop. It’s ok, but they’ve changed so much in the Office UI that it makes me long for Wordstar. My son also has a battered old Dell laptop running XP since it was licensed for it and I could put an old copy of Office on it for his homework. I also put my copy of Adobe CS2 on it in case I need it (rarely) because Wine rarely works well enough.

132 darthstar  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 8:04:44am

re: #131 William Barnett-Lewis

Confess…you still have a SCSI cable sitting in a box with old mice, keyboards, and the metal pieces used to cover ports on the back of towers for peripheral cards in the closet somewhere.

133 Internet Tough Guy  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 8:04:59am

re: #126 lawhawk

Well, some black hatters like Ben can sometimes lord over their resistance to assimilation on the rest of us.

134 darthstar  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 8:07:42am
135 GeneJockey  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 8:07:46am

re: #109 darthstar

19th Avenue in San Francisco is off limits until January.

Hillsdale Blvd from 101 to the Mall in San Mateo, too.

Even 20 years ago when we lived in The Richmond, we never took 19th. Sunset Blvd is so much nicer and less traveled.

136 Lord of the Pies  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 8:11:19am

re: #132 darthstar

Confess…you still have a SCSI cable sitting in a box with old mice, keyboards, and the metal pieces used to cover ports on the back of towers for peripheral cards in the closet somewhere.

Guilty.

137 thedopefishlives  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 8:11:57am

re: #132 darthstar

Confess…you still have a SCSI cable sitting in a box with old mice, keyboards, and the metal pieces used to cover ports on the back of towers for peripheral cards in the closet somewhere.

I never had a SCSI box, but I’m sure I have a few IDE cables and a floppy cable or two in that drawer.

138 A Mom Anon  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 8:13:10am

re: #135 GeneJockey

There’s an area a few miles from me that is an intersection of a major interstate and a mall/car dealership/shopping area. I refuse to go anywhere near there when it’s NOT Christmas season, let alone now. Hell to the No.

I’m thinking of making “Free Therapy” coupons for anyone I know who thinks fighting over crap in a store is a good use of their time this weekend.

139 ObserverArt  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 8:15:58am

re: #132 darthstar

Confess…you still have a SCSI cable sitting in a box with old mice, keyboards, and the metal pieces used to cover ports on the back of towers for peripheral cards in the closet somewhere.

I don’t! But I did.

Luckily, Columbus has days where you can drive to area parks to recycle electronics and other household items and hazardous chemicals. So, all that stuff went out a few years ago.

Anyone remember SyQuest storage devices??? 44 or 88 megs stored on one bis ass hard disk at a time. Woot!!!

Then came Zip drives…then CD writers/DVDs/thumbdrives.

I can’t think of all the dollars graphic arts has cost me for the “technology” race.

140 darthstar  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 8:16:02am

re: #137 thedopefishlives

I never had a SCSI box, but I’m sure I have a few IDE cables and a floppy cable or two in that drawer.

Don’t throw them away…they may come in handy some day…like if you need to build your own robot to defend your home against an army of machines…

141 darthstar  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 8:19:35am
142 Lord of the Pies  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 8:23:50am
143 Lord of the Pies  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 8:24:15am
144 BongCrodny  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 8:25:38am

re: #129 Pumpkin Pie Of Zion

Scenes from the Walmart “Hunger Games”

There is nothing on this good earth that could make me go to Wal-Mart on Black Friday.

145 GeneJockey  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 8:26:10am

re: #111 ObserverArt

I’m guessing that either Dark doesn’t want to dip into his own value set for fear of massive downdinging or he adjusts to fit in with a crowd. Both disturbing.

I’m not sure of Dark’s age bracket, but I am thinking in all of his history studying, he has never studied why unions were created in the first place, how they were violently opposed to protect the company profits and power and why the phrases “history repeats” was ever uttered.

Shaking head…and keeping in mind it is the holiday season and not to unload.

If I had to guess, I’d bet that Dark’s view of unions is the often expressed one - “They used to have a place back when workers were abused, but their time is past, and now their wage and work rules demands deny companies the flexibility they need to compete. And they force workers to pay dues, when everyone should be free to negotiate their own deal with their employer.” (BTW, Dark, if that ain’t you, my apologies.)

The problem with that argument is that a quick look at a graph of corporate profits and wages, both as a percent of GDP, reveals that we are increasingly in exactly the situation unions were created to address: workers losing power relative to employers, working longer hours, and seeing their protections eroded.

One big problem I always have with the Right’s view of employer:employee relations is that they invariably see things at the individual level. That is, they see “employer” as ONE GUY, and when you start talking about unions, they see it as all the workers ganging up on ONE GUY. But it’s almost never ONE GUY, it’s a collective entity formed by the owners, and to send in each worker to individually negotiate is essentially to make all workers and potential workers compete, while the owners all get together and negotiate as a unit.

In other words, the OWNERS gang up on EACH WORKER. And this is the prefered model for the Right.

146 Lord of the Pies  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 8:26:15am

re: #144 BongCrodny

There is nothing on this good earth that could make me go to Wal-Mart on Black Friday.

There is nothing that could make me go to Walmart ANY DAY.

147 GeneJockey  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 8:29:39am

re: #146 Pumpkin Pie Of Zion

There is nothing that could make me go to Walmart ANY DAY.

I confess I have shopped at Walmart, but only when I’ve found myself in one of those places where the Walmart has replaced most of the retail, and/or I don’t know where else to find stuff. This happens on vacations quite a bit.

148 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 8:30:02am

re: #132 darthstar

Confess…you still have a SCSI cable sitting in a box with old mice, keyboards, and the metal pieces used to cover ports on the back of towers for peripheral cards in the closet somewhere.

And misc RAM chips, old cdroms, old 50 pin drives, plenty of other odds & ends. and a 24 year old Mac SE/30 that needs work on it’s analog video card. Really got to get that fixed. It’s a pleasant machine to my writing on (Word 5.1 remains the best version before or since.)

149 BongCrodny  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 8:31:12am

re: #78 Dark_Falcon

Ask again on a different day.

Dark Falcon: The Magic 8-Ball of LGF. ;-)

150 thedopefishlives  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 8:31:13am

re: #147 GeneJockey

I confess I have shopped at Walmart, but only when I’ve found myself in one of those places where the Walmart has replaced most of the retail, and/or I don’t know where else to find stuff. This happens on vacations quite a bit.

The fishfolk shop at Wal-mart a lot, because in Indiana it’s a major retailer. Up here in the wild north country, we have two. TWO. You basically have to intentionally be going to one to shop there. Target is the big name up here.

151 Stanley Sea  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 8:31:22am

re: #145 GeneJockey

If I had to guess, I’d bet that Dark’s view of unions is the often expressed one - “They used to have a place back when workers were abused, but their time is past, and now their wage and work rules demands deny companies the flexibility they need to compete. And they force workers to pay dues, when everyone should be free to negotiate their own deal with their employer.” (BTW, Dark, if that ain’t you, my apologies.)

The problem with that argument is that a quick look at a graph of corporate profits and wages, both as a percent of GDP, reveals that we are increasingly in exactly the situation unions were created to address: workers losing power relative to employers, working longer hours, and seeing their protections eroded.

One big problem I always have with the Right’s view of employer:employee relations is that they invariably see things at the individual level. That is, they see “employer” as ONE GUY, and when you start talking about unions, they see it as all the workers ganging up on ONE GUY. But it’s almost never ONE GUY, it’s a collective entity formed by the owners, and to send in each worker to individually negotiate is essentially to make all workers and potential workers compete, while the owners all get together and negotiate as a unit.

In other words, the OWNERS gang up on EACH WORKER. And this is the prefered model for the Right.

Ding ding ding.

152 wrenchwench  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 8:33:56am

re: #147 GeneJockey

I confess I have shopped at Walmart, but only when I’ve found myself in one of those places where the Walmart has replaced most of the retail, and/or I don’t know where else to find stuff. This happens on vacations quite a bit.

That’s where I live. Upside: I’m permanently on vacation. Downside: WalMart is one of our three grocery stores, and the only place for some stuff, and one of two alternatives for a lot more stuff.

Can’t beat their $2.50 pineapples right now. $7 at Albertson’s, and they aren’t as good.

153 lawhawk  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 8:34:59am

How to avoid the mall and Black Friday crowds?

Go online. Buy my stuff.

Visit Vicious’ Zionist Mall.

Or, go visit small businesses on Small Business Saturday. Use Amex and get additional savings.

154 thedopefishlives  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 8:35:24am

re: #152 wrenchwench

That’s where I live. Upside: I’m permanently on vacation. Downside: WalMart is one of our three grocery stores, and the only place for some stuff, and one of two alternatives for a lot more stuff.

Can’t beat their $2.50 pineapples right now. $7 at Albertson’s, and they aren’t as good.

Say what you will about Wal-mart in the retail space, but their groceries are actually not that bad and have Wal-mart’s typical obscenely low prices, to boot.

155 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 8:36:38am

re: #145 GeneJockey

If I had to guess, I’d bet that Dark’s view of unions is the often expressed one - “They used to have a place back when workers were abused, but their time is past, and now their wage and work rules demands deny companies the flexibility they need to compete. And they force workers to pay dues, when everyone should be free to negotiate their own deal with their employer.” (BTW, Dark, if that ain’t you, my apologies.)

The problem with that argument is that a quick look at a graph of corporate profits and wages, both as a percent of GDP, reveals that we are increasingly in exactly the situation unions were created to address: workers losing power relative to employers, working longer hours, and seeing their protections eroded.

One big problem I always have with the Right’s view of employer:employee relations is that they invariably see things at the individual level. That is, they see “employer” as ONE GUY, and when you start talking about unions, they see it as all the workers ganging up on ONE GUY. But it’s almost never ONE GUY, it’s a collective entity formed by the owners, and to send in each worker to individually negotiate is essentially to make all workers and potential workers compete, while the owners all get together and negotiate as a unit.

In other words, the OWNERS gang up on EACH WORKER. And this is the prefered model for the Right.

Standard class warfare strategy: “Hey look, that guy over there is trying to take your job!”

156 Shiplord Kirel  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 8:37:33am

I was looking at the usual news of Black Friday mayhem, rioting, and excess and realized that some of the coverage and a lot of the commentary is taking on a decidedly racist slant. Good examples at (where else?) Free Republic:

Black Friday violence reported as retailers usher in start of holiday shopping season
(The story is from Fox TV, which has taken the point in covering Black Friday craziness.)

“Funny, they don’t look black.
Don’t they realize they’re shopping on the wrong day?” (pic of couple shopping in pajamas)

“Judging by the pics, most of them are “Looking for the bargains Americans won’t look for”, if you catch my drift.”

This new string is even more overt:
BREAKING NEWS: Black Friday Shopper Shot

“description….let me guess….2 eyes, a nose, a mouth, very curly hair…..and……”

“Bet you anything it was a “non-violent” black teen.”

“Redistribution at its best.”

“star basket ball player….”

”’ Metro has not released a description on the suspects or their vehicle. An investigation is ongoing ‘”

BS !!!!

If the victim is still alive and could have seen both suspects then they know the description is of the suspects.
Political correctness is keeping the description of the suspects out of the news until they can some how spin this thing.
It’s called reverse profiling, non-description of suspects because of race. “

“It’s called ‘TRAYVON’S BLACK FRIDAY FIVE FINGER DISCOUNT EXPRESS ‘”

“I guarantee you it’s not the conservatives committing violent crimes. Welcome to Obamastan, comrades!”

157 thedopefishlives  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 8:38:34am

re: #153 lawhawk

I did 100% of my Christmas shopping online this year. Well, that’s not strictly true; my mom went out to a store (well before Thanksgiving) to buy the Mrs. Fish’s present from me using her discount coupons and store card. Nevertheless, Black Friday is not my thing at all. I have no need to invoke the arcane rituals involved in surviving the retail apocalypse when everything I need can be bought online, as cheap or cheaper, and shipped directly to my Christmas destination to be wrapped and tagged when my sister and mother have their big wrapping party.

158 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 8:41:38am

re: #155 Feline Fearless Leader

Standard class warfare strategy: “Hey look, that guy over there is trying to take your job!”

and the classic rugged individualist approach: “You, with your limited resources, should be free to negotiate one-to-one with a multi-billion-dollar, international corporation without a union or government interfering! That is FREEDOM!”

159 wrenchwench  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 8:45:10am

re: #154 thedopefishlives

Say what you will about Wal-mart in the retail space, but their groceries are actually not that bad and have Wal-mart’s typical obscenely low prices, to boot.

I compare prices constantly. WalMart isn’t the cheapest on everything, but almost. Produce is pathetic everywhere in town, including the Food Co-op. Comes from being the end of the line for any truck that might transport it. And nearly nothing is grown here. Some things are grazed here, but only until they are old enough to ship off to a feed lot.

160 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 8:45:30am

I really don’t like my brain most of the time, in part because it often presents me with unexpected thoughts, such as just now when I suddenly found myself wondering if plumbers experience an uptick in business in the days immediately after Thanksgiving.

See, brain? This is why I am trying to kill you with alcohol.

161 Lord of the Pies  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 8:48:02am

re: #154 thedopefishlives

Say what you will about Wal-mart in the retail space, but their groceries are actually not that bad and have Wal-mart’s typical obscenely low prices, to boot.

Back when I shopped at the Wal-Mart in Dearborn, the produce was usually wilted and fruit-flied, the aisles were narrow and filthy, and they TURNED OFF THE LIGHTS at intervals. According to an associate “to save the planet.”

I found a Meijer store right down the road from work, the aisles are bright, wide and clean and the produce is fresh and the prices are competitive. There’s also a Target in the same mall.

162 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 8:48:52am

re: #146 Pumpkin Pie Of Zion

There is nothing that could make me go to Walmart ANY DAY.

I find I often shop there because the alternative is a minimum of a 2 hour drive that costs way too much in gas. Thanks to their biz model if you live in rural America you often have far fewer choices than you might otherwise have. I will probably do this paychecks grocery shopping at Wallfart simply because I have to stretch my budget as much as possible after paying rent gets more than half the check. There are other stores here in town but both of the grocers are considerably more expensive. Being poor sucks on both sides of the Walfart checkout.

163 Lord of the Pies  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 8:51:06am

re: #162 William Barnett-Lewis

I find I often shop there because the alternative is a minimum of a 2 hour drive that costs way too much in gas. Thanks to their biz model if you live in rural America you often have far fewer choices than you might otherwise have. I will probably do this paychecks grocery shopping at Wallfart simply because I have to stretch my budget as much as possible after paying rent gets more than half the check. There are other stores here in town but both of the grocers are considerably more expensive. Being poor sucks on both sides of the Walfart checkout.

If the Waltons weren’t so stupidly greedy they would realize that by paying their workers more, they would spend more of their paycheck at Walmart and the Waltons would make MOAR MONEY.

Talk about killing the golden goose.

164 wrenchwench  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 8:51:44am

re: #153 lawhawk

Or, go visit small businesses on Small Business Saturday. Use Amex and get additional savings.

Amex costs a small business more than any other form of payment. I don’t accept it anymore. Debit cards cost the least among plastic forms, which is why the consumer is being hit with fees for those.

Cash is great. Checks are great, too. Cost me nothing, and not one has bounced in my nearly-15-years of being in business.

165 A Mom Anon  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 8:52:20am

OK Lizards, I need some help.

I don’t want to cook a turkey for thanksgiving and a stupid honey baked ham for Christmas anymore. I’m SICK to death of the same thing Every. Stinking. Year. I suggested this this morning and The Husband acted like I just told him I was cheating on him or something,

It’s the same thing every year. I end up throwing out half the ham because no one eats the whole thing, and that honey baked thing is WAY overpriced. It’s not that great either.

So, are there any tasty alternatives I can talk people into and not be treated like I’m some freak of nature or something? Help. Meeeee……

166 Lord of the Pies  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 8:53:00am

I just prepped the turkey for tonight’s dinner, it’s in the oven now.

My daughter-in-law was up late last night frying 1000 latkes for their Big Mall Hanukkah Festival on Sunday.

167 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 8:53:17am

Shed cats have discovered cooked turkey neck put out for them and are nom nom nom right now. :)

(We didn’t cook turkey, but was given two necks and some vegetable scraps for the chickens yesterday by neighbors who were. Necks were cooked for the cats as a treat - family tradition.)

168 A Mom Anon  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 8:55:27am

re: #160 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce
According to The Husband that is true. It’s not just bathroom plumbing though, sinks back up because people take the lazy way out and dump grease into the system. In fact, he got called out last night to unstop a toilet and a sink. So yeah, there’s always an uptick during the holidays, more family using the same plumbing, the more things go wrong.

169 Lord of the Pies  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 8:55:43am

re: #165 A Mom Anon

OK Lizards, I need some help.

I don’t want to cook a turkey for thanksgiving and a stupid honey baked ham for Christmas anymore. I’m SICK to death of the same thing Every. Stinking. Year. I suggested this this morning and The Husband acted like I just told him I was cheating on him or something,

It’s the same thing every year. I end up throwing out half the ham because no one eats the whole thing, and that honey baked thing is WAY overpriced. It’s not that great either.

So, are there any tasty alternatives I can talk people into and not be treated like I’m some freak of nature or something? Help. Meeeee……

I would suggest Brisket or Prime Rib but that’s very expensive even though totally worth it.

Roast chicken is good, so is Leg of Lamb (that might be pricey too)

What about a Vegetarian Thanksgiving?

170 PhillyPretzel  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 8:56:07am

re: #165 A Mom Anon

Here is a link to Cook’s Illustrated. They have great recipes and they have been tested so you have no worries as to how they will turn out. They also have menus for specific holidays. cooksillustrated.com

171 GeneJockey  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 8:56:08am

re: #158 Sol Berdinowitz

and the classic rugged individualist approach: “You, with your limited resources, should be free to negotiate one-to-one with a multi-billion-dollar, international corporation without a union or government interfering! That is FREEDOM!”

Yeah. Suppose we reverse the situation. Let’s have all the workers organize, and want to negotiate as a unit with with each shareholder individually, but the shareholders aren’t allowed to discuss with each other what their deal is.

There was one guy on the bowhunting forum who seemed to hate unions even more than the rest of the guys did. He was OUTRAGED by the deals that unions got in the GM and Chrysler bankruptcies. He wanted to see the workers PUNISHED for driving the companies into bankruptcy, because it was all just union greed, not 30 years of making shitty cars and otherwise mismanaging. And the bankruptcies were the perfect time to crush the unions and claw back EVERYTHING - healthcare, pensions, etc.

It never fails to amaze me - CEOs and Hedge Fund Managers are not greedy for demanding and getting double-digit raises when they already make millions or tens of millions. That’s just The Market!! But working class people wanting a living wage, healthcare, and a decent retirement are Greedy Union Thugs.

172 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 8:58:02am

re: #165 A Mom Anon

OK Lizards, I need some help.

I don’t want to cook a turkey for thanksgiving and a stupid honey baked ham for Christmas anymore. I’m SICK to death of the same thing Every. Stinking. Year. I suggested this this morning and The Husband acted like I just told him I was cheating on him or something,

It’s the same thing every year. I end up throwing out half the ham because no one eats the whole thing, and that honey baked thing is WAY overpriced. It’s not that great either.

So, are there any tasty alternatives I can talk people into and not be treated like I’m some freak of nature or something? Help. Meeeee……

Go smaller? I did a 4lb smoked turkey breast last year (and stuffing in a separate casserole) last year. Fewer leftovers and much reduced cooking time. And the carcass made a killer stock for turkey soup.

For Christmas it’s been half hams - but not Honey-Baked. We basically try to find smoked hams that are not water injected and try to get a 1/2 ham (7-8 lbs). That might be easier in the east due to Amish farmers and a better tradition for smoked hams. And the smoked ham also makes good meat for soup and sandwiches.

I know people who do goose for Christmas - but that’s a production with its own cooking issues.

173 Dr Lizardo  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 8:58:30am

re: #165 A Mom Anon

OK Lizards, I need some help.

I don’t want to cook a turkey for thanksgiving and a stupid honey baked ham for Christmas anymore. I’m SICK to death of the same thing Every. Stinking. Year. I suggested this this morning and The Husband acted like I just told him I was cheating on him or something,

It’s the same thing every year. I end up throwing out half the ham because no one eats the whole thing, and that honey baked thing is WAY overpriced. It’s not that great either.

So, are there any tasty alternatives I can talk people into and not be treated like I’m some freak of nature or something? Help. Meeeee……

Salmon for Christmas. Cooked any way you like.

174 thedopefishlives  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 8:58:49am

re: #161 Pumpkin Pie Of Zion

Back when I shopped at the Wal-Mart in Dearborn, the produce was usually wilted and fruit-flied, the aisles were narrow and filthy, and they TURNED OFF THE LIGHTS at intervals. According to an associate “to save the planet.”

I found a Meijer store right down the road from work, the aisles are bright, wide and clean and the produce is fresh and the prices are competitive. There’s also a Target in the same mall.

That’s interesting. My mom does most of her grocery shopping at Meijer, true. We did do some Wal-mart when I lived at home, and it wasn’t that bad. Perhaps it’s gone downhill since then; that was a long time ago.

175 Lord of the Pies  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 8:58:59am

re: #171 GeneJockey

Yeah. Suppose we reverse the situation. Let’s have all the workers organize, and want to negotiate as a unit with with each shareholder individually, but the shareholders aren’t allowed to discuss with each other what their deal is.

There was one guy on the bowhunting forum who seemed to hate unions even more than the rest of the guys did. He was OUTRAGED by the deals that unions got in the GM and Chrysler bankruptcies. He wanted to see the workers PUNISHED for driving the companies into bankruptcy, because it was all just union greed, not 30 years of making shitty cars and otherwise mismanaging. And the bankruptcies were the perfect time to crush the unions and claw back EVERYTHING - healthcare, pensions, etc.

It never fails to amaze me - CEOs and Hedge Fund Managers are not greedy for demanding and getting double-digit raises when they already make millions or tens of millions. That’s just The Market!! But working class people wanting a living wage, healthcare, and a decent retirement are Greedy Union Thugs.

I like working at a UAW shop. Even though I am a contractor (non-Union, salaried professional) the benefits that the UAW has negotiated trickle-up to the engineers.

10 years ago GM practically outsourced their entire IT department overseas. That was a massive failure. Now I get calls from GM recruiters for direct hire positions.

176 thedopefishlives  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 9:00:42am

re: #166 Pumpkin Pie Of Zion

I just prepped the turkey for tonight’s dinner, it’s in the oven now.

My daughter-in-law was up late last night frying 1000 latkes for their Big Mall Hanukkah Festival on Sunday.

The Mrs. Fish’s family went out for Thanksgiving dinner yesterday, and they let us keep the leftovers from their family-style serving. So we all got a small box with delicious leftovers. We bought a turkey last week that is now defrosting. Too bad I don’t have my dad’s deep fryer.

177 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 9:01:26am

re: #163 Pumpkin Pie Of Zion

If the Waltons weren’t so stupidly greedy they would realize that by paying their workers more, they would spend more of their paycheck at Walmart and the Waltons would make MOAR MONEY.

Talk about killing the golden goose.

Sam himself was much better about things. He took the anti-union route of “make them not need one” rather than his kids route of “oppress the living fuck out of them” making the country need a much higher minimum wage, a maximum wage and, most of all, real unions. Unfortunately the Dems gave Organized Labor the boot as part of the deal with the devil to get Clinton elected and I wonder, sometimes, if the social progress of the Clinton & Obama administration has been worth not making enough to eat…

178 Dancing along the light of day  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 9:02:08am

Giggling MADLY!
I am SOOO glad not to work in retail anymore!
Seriously, you have no idea what those poor people go through between now and Christmas!
WOOT for me!

179 thedopefishlives  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 9:03:38am

re: #178 Dancing along the light of day

Giggling MADLY!
I am SOOO glad not to work in retail anymore!
Seriously, you have no idea what those poor people go through between now and Christmas!
WOOT for me!

Actually, I do have somewhat an idea, and I’m absolutely thankful that you managed to escape it.

180 PhillyPretzel  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 9:06:34am

re: #178 Dancing along the light of day

Been there, done that. B Altman and John Wanamaker do not exist anymore and I am thankful I have a job. I am not crazy about it but it pays the bills.

181 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 9:10:40am

re: #175 Pumpkin Pie Of Zion

10 years ago GM practically outsourced their entire IT department overseas. That was a massive failure. Now I get calls from GM recruiters for direct hire positions.

Motorola did much the same with most of its engineering staff, a friend of mine who was “spun off” and then dumped was recently asked to rejoin the company…after they had cancelled his retirement plan, etc…

182 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 9:12:10am

re: #165 A Mom Anon

OK Lizards, I need some help.

I don’t want to cook a turkey for thanksgiving and a stupid honey baked ham for Christmas anymore. I’m SICK to death of the same thing Every. Stinking. Year. I suggested this this morning and The Husband acted like I just told him I was cheating on him or something,

It’s the same thing every year. I end up throwing out half the ham because no one eats the whole thing, and that honey baked thing is WAY overpriced. It’s not that great either.

So, are there any tasty alternatives I can talk people into and not be treated like I’m some freak of nature or something? Help. Meeeee……

See if your local meat shop has Duck or Pheasant available. The other option than can be very fun is a Cornish “Game Hen” (really a young chicken) per person or two with little left overs. Stuff and roast like any other bird.

Prime Rib?

Lamb chops?

Chicken Cordon Bleu?

Filet Mignon with the traditonal bacon wrapping?

Surf & Turf?

Or even take a smaller ham than usual, perhaps a heritage smoked ham, and instead of that nasty honey glaze, put it in a crock pot with potatoes, carrot, celery & etc and then cover in apple juice. Much mellower flavor and the juice makes an exquisite broth for soup making.

183 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 9:13:11am

We did a guinea fowl for one Christmas, kinda small by American big-bird standards, but tasty.

184 Stanley Sea  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 9:15:33am

re: #165 A Mom Anon

I’ve done the grocery store (Albertsons) prime rib dinner for I think 80.00. Fed 7 people? Plenty of food, really good and ZERO work.

185 Snarknado!  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 9:15:44am

re: #165 A Mom Anon

OK Lizards, I need some help.

I don’t want to cook a turkey for thanksgiving and a stupid honey baked ham for Christmas anymore. I’m SICK to death of the same thing Every. Stinking. Year. I suggested this this morning and The Husband acted like I just told him I was cheating on him or something,

It’s the same thing every year. I end up throwing out half the ham because no one eats the whole thing, and that honey baked thing is WAY overpriced. It’s not that great either.

So, are there any tasty alternatives I can talk people into and not be treated like I’m some freak of nature or something? Help. Meeeee……

In my house we always did capon. Luxury-version chicken.

Pork roast is also excellent.

186 GeneJockey  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 9:16:06am

re: #165 A Mom Anon

OK Lizards, I need some help.

I don’t want to cook a turkey for thanksgiving and a stupid honey baked ham for Christmas anymore. I’m SICK to death of the same thing Every. Stinking. Year. I suggested this this morning and The Husband acted like I just told him I was cheating on him or something,

It’s the same thing every year. I end up throwing out half the ham because no one eats the whole thing, and that honey baked thing is WAY overpriced. It’s not that great either.

So, are there any tasty alternatives I can talk people into and not be treated like I’m some freak of nature or something? Help. Meeeee……

I’m stuck making turkey for both, even though Mrs. Jockey’s dad sends us a Honeybaked Ham every Christmas now. I tried doing something else once, and the older boy (the one with ASD) still speaks of The Year Dad Ruined Christmas. So for Christmas we have ham, a turkey breast, stuffing, mashed potatoes, and pumpin pies. It’s like Thanksgiving again, but with a ham. I gave up trying to do anything different.

The big problem I have with the ham is that the older boy WILL NOT EAT IT. It’s sweet, you see, and he WILL NOT combine sweet and savory. If he makes sausage patties or bacon and pancakes or waffles for breakfast, he eats the meat first, then gets ANOTHER PLATE for the stuff you put syrup on. He’s immune to my suggestion to dip bites of sausage in the syrup that pools around the pancakes. He gives me a look like I’d suggested snacking out of a cat box. So, it’s just 3 of us eating the ham. BUT, because I’ve had to make a turkey breast and stuffing, everyone eats those preferentially. And pretty soon they get tired of ham. Jambalaya, black bean soup, etc use up a bit, but we do end up tossing some of it.

Alternatives for Christmas: A smaller ham, possibly from a different vendor. Pork loin roast. Leg of lamb. Prime rib. A big-ass Lasagne with spinach for the whole ‘red and green’ thing. People do tend to expect a centerpiece of roasted animal of some kind, of course.

Alternatives for Thanksgiving: THERE ARE NO ALTERNATIVES!!! ;-)

187 A Mom Anon  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 9:16:43am

Thanks for the ideas all. I don’t get it. I didn’t do the best job of cooking this year, I mean no one went back for seconds, isn’t that a sign? I mean the pets love having tons of turkey to eat, but no one else liked it that much. I’ve tried, INSISTED The Husband buy a smaller ham and he still comes home with well over 12-14 lbs of stupid ham. He says “what about Tradition?” Really? No one EVER comes to see us on the holidays. His parents were here for The Teenager’s first Christmas and that was it. Driving to South FL is not an option because most of the time The Husband has to work/be on call. My family is a disaster, so that hasn’t happened in almost 10 yrs. What tradition? More like stubbornness I think.

I’m thinking maybe a stuffed pork roast or pork chops for Christmas with various side dishes. I’m sure the whining will commence over that too, lol.

188 ObserverArt  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 9:17:10am

We are so lucky here in Columbus. We have Kroger, Giant Eagle, Aldi, WalMart, Meijers, Target, Hills Specialty Markets, A couple The Andersons General Stores…A couple Whole World Foods and lots of Asian and Mexican/Hispanic specialty shops and a real nice North Market with little specialty shops/special grocers/farmers markets during season outdoors daily.

I think it helps keep the market competitive so all have comparable pricing.

189 Lord of the Pies  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 9:19:04am

re: #182 William Barnett-Lewis

See if your local meat shop has Duck or Pheasant available. The other option than can be very fun is a Cornish “Game Hen” (really a young chicken) per person or two with little left overs. Stuff and roast like any other bird.

Prime Rib?

Lamb chops?

Chicken Cordon Bleu?

Filet Mignon with the traditonal bacon wrapping?

Surf & Turf?

Or even take a smaller ham than usual, perhaps a heritage smoked ham, and instead of that nasty honey glaze, put it in a crock pot with potatoes, carrot, celery & etc and then cover in apple juice. Much mellower flavor and the juice makes an exquisite broth for soup making.

POT ROAST!

190 Decatur Deb  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 9:19:12am

re: #165 A Mom Anon

OK Lizards, I need some help.

I don’t want to cook a turkey for thanksgiving and a stupid honey baked ham for Christmas anymore. I’m SICK to death of the same thing Every. Stinking. Year. I suggested this this morning and The Husband acted like I just told him I was cheating on him or something,

It’s the same thing every year. I end up throwing out half the ham because no one eats the whole thing, and that honey baked thing is WAY overpriced. It’s not that great either.

So, are there any tasty alternatives I can talk people into and not be treated like I’m some freak of nature or something? Help. Meeeee……

Cook the damn turkey and rejoice you don’t have a lutefisk or haggis tradition.

191 A Mom Anon  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 9:19:48am

re: #187 A Mom Anon

Oh and that Cook’s Illustrated link is AWESOME. I have a few old back issues of the magazine, I forgot about the website. Bookmarked, oh yes.

192 A Mom Anon  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 9:20:51am

re: #190 Decatur Deb
No. Lol. I’d be incredibly thin if those were my options. Yipes.

193 A Mom Anon  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 9:21:24am

Dog walkies and laundry, BBL…

194 PhillyPretzel  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 9:21:39am

re: #191 A Mom Anon

They recently updated all of their websites. I am thinking about upgrading my membership. It is a bit pricey but it may be worth it.

195 thedopefishlives  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 9:22:24am

re: #190 Decatur Deb

Cook the damn turkey and rejoice you don’t have a lutefisk or haggis tradition.

The Mrs. Fish is still trying to persuade me into trying lutefisk. She likes it. I imagine I would approach it the same way non-fish-family members approach our vinegar pie: Very Carefully.

196 Belafon  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 9:23:31am

re: #165 A Mom Anon

One year, I did steak. Two turkeys in a year was too much. So, now, we just do something different for the Christmas dinner. It’s a bit of a fight, since my wife is a traditionalist - means doesn’t like change - but since I cook them, I get to choose.

197 Stanley Sea  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 9:24:42am
198 Snarknado!  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 9:25:22am

re: #195 thedopefishlives

The Mrs. Fish is still trying to persuade me into trying lutefisk. She likes it. I imagine I would approach it the same way non-fish-family members approach our vinegar pie: Very Carefully.

Cannibals.

//

199 Decatur Deb  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 9:25:53am

re: #196 Belafon

One year, I did steak. Two turkeys in a year was too much. So, now, we just do something different for the Christmas dinner. It’s a bit of a fight, since my wife is a traditionalist - means doesn’t like change - but since I cook them, I get to choose.

We grill a turkey for Thanksgiving. Then we grill a turkey and ham for Christmas. We grill it on the same grill we’ve been grilling on since 1980. They’ve learned to like it.

200 Stanley Sea  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 9:28:39am

I kept my intake yesterday to a very reasonable amt for once. Now all this talk of food is killing me.

Peels another cutie.

201 Decatur Deb  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 9:28:53am

re: #197 Stanley Sea

[Embedded content]

“Let’s see. What can I do today to really piss off the Freepers?”

202 thedopefishlives  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 9:29:20am

re: #200 Stanley Sea

I kept my intake yesterday to a very reasonable amt for once. Now all this talk of food is killing me.

Peels another cutie.

Yeah, I just wound up making a run to the gas station to get junk snacks for myself and the Mrs. Fish.

203 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 9:32:07am

re: #154 thedopefishlives

Say what you will about Wal-mart in the retail space, but their groceries are actually not that bad and have Wal-mart’s typical obscenely low prices, to boot.

{disclaimer: this is my own personal tinfoil helmet hypothesis, and I don’t claim there’s any actual data to back it up, other than the anecdotal type. I’m speaking in generalities, from experience only (i.e., no actual rigorous research) so obviously exceptions will apply. I’m also purposely excluding food items sold by Wal-mart, which carry their own set of grievances.}

Wal-mart’s typical goods, while usually less expensive than the stuff you get elsewhere, are actually a much worse value for a low-income consumer than similar things that might cost somewhat more. Ultimately, this constitutes a burden on the consumer.

There are products manufactured specifically for Wal-mart, and there are products that are also sold elsewhere, but which are sometimes manufactured differently (i.e., more cheaply) in a “Wal-mart specific version”. Because of the pressure Wal-mart puts on their suppliers to constantly cut costs, well… costs are cut. Cheaper (read:weaker) thread is used. Cheaper glues and dyes are used, etc etc. You might find a pair of shoes for 3/4 the price at Wal-mart than you would find comparable shoes at (say) Sears, but because of how terribly they’re manufactured, they’ll last less than half as long.

The same goes for clothes, furniture, lamps, etc. This helps to keep poor people poor by encouraging them to replace cheap goods more frequently than they would have to replace more expensive, better-constructed goods. The person with enough cash reserves can afford quality items elsewhere, while the poor person has to buy crap item after crap item.

Let’s be clear that I am not claiming this is some conspiracy on the part of Wal-mart to keep people poor. I just think it’s one consequence of their business model. Their insistence on shittifying the entire supply chain in order to sell something 2% cheaper is bad for the economy overall.

This combines with a side-rant: It’s very easy to get trapped in, well, “poorness”, if not actual no-shit poverty. When you get down on your luck ONE TIME, there are a variety of things that can combine to keep you there.

Say you’re living on a low income. Maybe this is the way it’s been all your life, or maybe you got laid off at a particularly inopportune moment and you’re just barely making enough to pay the bills and save a little each month. You have a washing machine, but then it breaks down. You don’t have enough available money to get it fixed or buy a new one. You have to start using the $4/load washer & dryer at the coin-op laundromat down the block. Now your budget is a bit more strained, and there’s that much less you can save or spend on other things.

Depending on where you live, transportation is another huge problem for poor people. I live in the DFW metroplex. It’s quite common for people living here to have jobs that are 40 or 50 miles away from their home. Hour-long commute to your $8.00/hour job every morning? Not rare. Probably longer coming back home. That’s a lot of $3.30/gal gas, and a lot of wear-and-tear on your car, if you have one.

A middle class frugal person can usually get affordable and reliable transportation. Buy a 3 year-old car, keep it till it’s 10 or 12 years old and too expensive to maintain. When the middle class person sells that car, a poor person will buy it. They get stuck paying for expensive maintenance after expensive maintenance, $150 here, $200 there. It’s a cheaper up-front cost, but over time their car costs more. Their other option is to skip the car and take the bus, but then they have to deal with the opportunity costs of that. A 15-minute drive becomes an hour long walk and bus ride. Gotta get your kids ready for school every morning? Work their schedule into your bus schedule, even if it means they get up at 4 so you can fix them something to eat, because you have to leave by 5:30 to catch your 7:00 bus that gets you to your shitty job at 8:00. And there are many, many more examples.

If you have limited income, you usually don’t have the cash to make large up-front purchases that save you money in the long run. This traps a lot of people in poverty.

I’m no economist, but I think continual pressure for lower and lower prices only serves, in the mid-to-long term, to depress wages and increase unemployment ALL THROUGHOUT THE ECONOMY, which perpetuates the demand for lower prices. It’s a snake eating its own tail.

And of course, I don’t have any solutions. My job is to complain.

edit: some splelelings, and also I a word.

204 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 9:32:28am

re: #189 Pumpkin Pie Of Zion

POT ROAST!

Very good article. Quite close to how I make pot roast and it’s something I love doing. Get some good hard rolls and make hot beefs from the leftovers and juices. Nom nom nom.

205 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 9:35:15am

re: #203 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce

Correct. But for me, as I said, it’s a two hour drive to something better. That much gas + the increased cost means the items have to be _much_ higher quality to be worth it.

206 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 9:36:34am

re: #170 PhillyPretzel

Here is a link to Cook’s Illustrated. They have great recipes and they have been tested so you have no worries as to how they will turn out. They also have menus for specific holidays. cooksillustrated.com

+one million upvotes for Cook’s Illustrated. Even if you can’t cook your way out of a paper bag, you will find CI useful as long as you follow their directions to the letter.

207 Decatur Deb  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 9:38:41am

re: #203 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce

There is a threshold for value buying. Now I can afford a Land’s End shirt and wear it for years until Wife makes me throw it away. Same with an Estwing hammer, that will outlast 3 $10.00 ones from Harbor Freight. But it takes a minimum surplus income to use that strategy.

208 thedopefishlives  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 9:41:34am

re: #207 Decatur Deb

There is a threshold for value buying. Now I can afford a Land’s End shirt and wear it for years until Wife makes me throw it away. Same with an Estwing hammer, that will outlast 3 $10.00 ones from Harbor Freight. But it takes a minimum surplus income to use that strategy.

One of the biggest differences in my budget was when I was able to afford an upgrade to the Fishmobiles. Getting newer or more reliable vehicles (the Mrs. Fish’s Town Car is older than her previous ride, but has a much higher reliability threshold as a fleet vehicle) has really dropped my regular operating costs since I don’t have to perform major car surgery every other month.

209 Lord of the Pies  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 9:43:40am

re: #208 thedopefishlives

One of the biggest differences in my budget was when I was able to afford an upgrade to the Fishmobiles. Getting newer or more reliable vehicles (the Mrs. Fish’s Town Car is older than her previous ride, but has a much higher reliability threshold as a fleet vehicle) has really dropped my regular operating costs since I don’t have to perform major car surgery every other month.

One perk of working for the Auto Companies is that I get the “employee pricing” on a vehicle lease so I can trade in my car every two years.

210 calochortus  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 9:45:44am

re: #203 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce

I read some time ago that a $5 T shirt from WalMart lasts about half as long as a $10 T shirt from somewhere else. Assuming this is true, it doesn’t really harm the poor financially (time expenditure going to buy a new one may or may not be an issue.) What really gets people hooked is the illusion that they have saved money not once, but twice! Which they haven’t, they’ve just had to shop twice.

211 thedopefishlives  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 9:46:13am

re: #209 Pumpkin Pie Of Zion

One perk of working for the Auto Companies is that I get the “employee pricing” on a vehicle lease so I can trade in my car every two years.

My late grandmother worked for AC Delco. My parents bought several of their vehicles on her pink slips, since she never used them. It really is amazing the difference once you can get over the threshold and afford a nice newish reliable car. Car payments on a nicer car can be even cheaper than the average monthly cost of regularly spaced major repairs.

212 calochortus  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 9:47:51am

re: #211 thedopefishlives

And if you can pay off that car and then save the money you would have spent on payments so you can buy the next one with cash is a total win.

213 EmmaAnne  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 9:48:14am

re: #141 darthstar

[Embedded content]

Sorry for the downing, but many of us care a lot about the lives of hourly workers and put our time, efforts, and money towards better conditions.

214 Decatur Deb  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 9:49:16am

re: #208 thedopefishlives

One of the biggest differences in my budget was when I was able to afford an upgrade to the Fishmobiles. Getting newer or more reliable vehicles (the Mrs. Fish’s Town Car is older than her previous ride, but has a much higher reliability threshold as a fleet vehicle) has really dropped my regular operating costs since I don’t have to perform major car surgery every other month.

Yup. The newer vehicles are inherently more reliable than the pre-80s ones, but they have traded off most of the DIY repairability. The fun part was watching Wifes ‘new’ van decrease in real value against my old LandRover. Right now the Rover is worth twice the 3500 I paid for it, because I can fix the thing. It costs me 30 bucks and 20 minutes to put a new fuel pump on the LR, $600 dollars the time the dealer fixed hers.

215 thedopefishlives  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 9:50:05am

re: #212 calochortus

And if you can pay off that car and then save the money you would have spent on payments so you can buy the next one with cash is a total win.

Precisely the plan. It helps that the Town Car is already paid off, and as a luxury car, it has a relatively high value even at its age and mileage. If it has a problem, I will probably be able to trade it in and get something respectable even from a dealer.

216 thedopefishlives  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 9:52:05am

re: #214 Decatur Deb

I got my Dad a code scanner for our OBDII vehicles last year. We haven’t had to use it yet, but I certainly intend on maintaining as much of the computer-controlled stuff as I can to try to keep the costs down even more. Parts are definitely more expensive for the newer beasts, though, which puts a bit of a dent in things.

217 Decatur Deb  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 9:59:09am

re: #216 thedopefishlives

I got my Dad a code scanner for our OBDII vehicles last year. We haven’t had to use it yet, but I certainly intend on maintaining as much of the computer-controlled stuff as I can to try to keep the costs down even more. Parts are definitely more expensive for the newer beasts, though, which puts a bit of a dent in things.

Unless it’s a kid crisis, I just wont work on anything after 1980. The problem isn’t just the computers, it’s the hellish design. Couldn’t change that fuel pump without dropping the fuel tank and breaking the seal to get at the (expensive) pump. The windshield fairing on wife’s van has to be removed to get at the #6 spark plug. If auto designers in Japan wake up screaming, it’s because of what I’m calling them while I’m under their creations.

218 Snarknado!  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 9:59:35am

re: #213 EmmaAnne

Sorry for the downing, but many of us care a lot about the lives of hourly workers and put our time, efforts, and money towards better conditions.

Don’t shoot the messenger.

219 thedopefishlives  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 10:03:33am

re: #217 Decatur Deb

Unless it’s a kid crisis, I just wont work on anything after 1980. The problem isn’t just the computers, it’s the hellish design. Couldn’t change that fuel pump without dropping the fuel tank and breaking the seal to get at the (expensive) pump. The windshield fairing on wife’s van has to be removed to get at the #6 spark plug. If auto designers in Japan wake up screaming, it’s because of what I’m calling them while I’m under their creations.

Not all of them are that bad. Granted, I haven’t had to do anything major on my Malibu yet, but on the Town Car, even the disaster that was the heater core was more time-consuming than complex. Lots of running back and forth around the car to get at both sides of the dashboard to remove it. And no, that wasn’t nearly as painful as it sounds. It depends on the manufacturer and the size of the car; obviously, subcompacts are going to be a problem, and I refuse to come anywhere near anything Japanese. German cars are nice and my American stable has always been fair and easy to work on. Well, aside from the Dodge (that my sister blew up last week) that you had to remove the tire to change the battery, that is.

220 Stanley Sea  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 10:07:12am

Yes they do.

221 Romantic Heretic  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 10:08:18am

re: #113 Pumpkin Pie Of Zion

Only one day into the holiday weekend and already the family disagreements are raging.

My son actually has me considering a Macbook.

They are Teh Expensif.

Only up front. I’ve found the ease of use and their reliability means that over the length of its useful life (About 8 years in my experience) that overall they are cheaper, and worth every penny.

I used one Mac for over a decade. In that time the only hardware failure was a hard drive.

222 Decatur Deb  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 10:10:25am

re: #219 thedopefishlives

Not all of them are that bad. Granted, I haven’t had to do anything major on my Malibu yet, but on the Town Car, even the disaster that was the heater core was more time-consuming than complex. Lots of running back and forth around the car to get at both sides of the dashboard to remove it. And no, that wasn’t nearly as painful as it sounds. It depends on the manufacturer and the size of the car; obviously, subcompacts are going to be a problem, and I refuse to come anywhere near anything Japanese. German cars are nice and my American stable has always been fair and easy to work on. Well, aside from the Dodge (that my sister blew up last week) that you had to remove the tire to change the battery, that is.

Get the idea that we’re just not supposed to work on newer cars any more. The old LR has a bearing kit that allows you to upgrade the door hinges when they wear out. If you can, imagine a new car lasting long enough to wear out the hinges.

223 jaunte  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 10:11:17am

re: #113 Pumpkin Pie Of Zion

My son actually has me considering a Macbook.

I’ve been using mine since 2006.

224 thedopefishlives  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 10:11:45am

re: #222 Decatur Deb

Get the idea that we’re just not supposed to work on newer cars any more. The old LR has a bearing kit that allows you to upgrade the door hinges when they wear out. If you can, imagine a new car lasting long enough to wear out the hinges.

No, cars are being turned into disposable goods. I took my Town Car’s rotors in to be turned because they had a little bit of ridging on them. Turns out that not only were they under spec for turning, but brand new rotors are under spec as well. Meaning that if your rotors develop the slightest defect, you have to toss ‘em and buy new ones, no one will turn them for you. Absurd, is what that is.

225 Decatur Deb  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 10:11:54am

re: #221 Romantic Heretic

Only up front. I’ve found the ease of use and their reliability means that over the length of its useful life (About 8 years in my experience) that overall they are cheaper, and worth every penny.

I used one Mac for over a decade. In that time the only hardware failure was a hard drive.

But can you refresh the hinges on the LCD screen?

226 RealityBasedSteve  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 10:13:05am

re: #153 lawhawk

How to avoid the mall and Black Friday crowds?

Go online. Buy my stuff.

Visit Vicious’ Zionist Mall.

Or, go visit small businesses on Small Business Saturday. Use Amex and get additional savings.

Hey, I’ll make a shameless self promotion plug also. Visit Two Cats Pens for the very best in hand crafted writing instruments. I’ve got more inventory to post up, just have to get pics taken and copy written (which is more work than actual creating the pens)

RBS

227 Romantic Heretic  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 10:13:26am

re: #130 ObserverArt

Said it here before. Been using Windows since 1991 for graphics.

Sure there were many issues to face back then. Mostly due to the Mac domination and the thinking surrounding younger graphics artist that were raised with them in schools during the 80s.

Once I knew what the differences were and how to get around them, that all changed. Since the Pentium series came around Mid 90s that whole thing started to go away. Now, both platforms can be productive.

I don’t have a problem with Macs. I can use them too. But, I do question some of the thinking that surrounds them. I had to coin my own term “Macitude” to help laugh of all the comments I had to take being a Windoze user back then.

To me it is like two artist fighting over whether they use Grumbacher or Windsor & Newton artist brushes. All I care about is finished product and the art.

Now that I think of it, I do remember students back at art school fighting over brands. Some of them just couldn’t paint!

Um, really? You have no idea how much of a ‘get a real computer’ bullshit I faced from the Windows people back in the day.

They reminded me of hot rodeos. If you weren’t willing to open the hood and play with the hardware you weren’t a real computer person. But Apple products are and always have been “for the rest of us.”

228 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 10:14:05am

re: #224 thedopefishlives

No, cars are being turned into disposable goods. I took my Town Car’s rotors in to be turned because they had a little bit of ridging on them. Turns out that not only were they under spec for turning, but >brand new rotors are under spec as well. Meaning that if your rotors develop the slightest defect, you have to toss ‘em and buy new ones, no one will turn them for you. Absurd, is what that is.

Making sub-standard parts like that sounds like a lawsuit in the making to me. I also wonder if there are federal or state regulations on point on matters such as that.

229 Romantic Heretic  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 10:14:28am

re: #137 thedopefishlives

I never had a SCSI box, but I’m sure I have a few IDE cables and a floppy cable or two in that drawer.

I have the motherboard to my Apple II in a display case.

230 thedopefishlives  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 10:16:03am

re: #228 Dark_Falcon

Making sub-standard parts like that sounds like a lawsuit in the making to me? i also wonder if there are federal or state regulations on point on matters such as that.

I honestly don’t know. I do know that the look on the parts geek’s face when I put the micrometer on the rotor fresh out of the box and showed him it was under spec was absolutely priceless.

231 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 10:26:19am

re: #214 Decatur Deb

Yup. The newer vehicles are inherently more reliable than the pre-80s ones, but they have traded off most of the DIY repairability. The fun part was watching Wifes ‘new’ van decrease in real value against my old LandRover. Right now the Rover is worth twice the 3500 I paid for it, because I can fix the thing. It costs me 30 bucks and 20 minutes to put a new fuel pump on the LR, $600 dollars the time the dealer fixed hers.

Jesus H. Hubert Humphrey Herbert Walker Milhous Nixon Jong-Il Nikola Tesla River Tam Late Seventies Jack Nicholson Christ, did I ever get treated like the only woman on a pirate ship the last time I bought a car.

Problem The First was that due to my own stupidity and indescribably toxic marital conditions, my previous car suddenly required repair that was more expensive than it was worth as scrap metal, never mind that I didn’t actually possess that amount of money at the time.

Problem The Second was that I didn’t have any friends or family I could call on to help me out in any way, financially or otherwise. Helping me out “otherwise” would have been more valuable. Important life lesson: Sometimes the greatest gift you can give (or receive) is the knowledge that an incipient course of action is really a Huge Fucking Mistake.

Problem The Third was that I went to a walking-distance car dealership. By myself. On foot. And I let it be known that I had come there on foot, and needed a car. As the song says, “Any clever predator could have a piece of me”. Everything on the lot was a gas-guzzling truck, and to make a long story short, I bought a car, thinking it would surely be more economical over time than a gas-guzzling truck. Well, lo and behold, that car has cost almost as much in repairs and maintenance as the original sale price of the car.

I lack the male gene responsible for car love and knowledge. If someone tells me my car needs a new frommitz regulator or an airflow recapitulator, I usually don’t know what the fuck they’re talking about, and as a result I either disregard their advice (in which case it turns out to be real, and ignoring it was the worst thing I could possibly do), or I follow their advice (in which case I am proven to be a fool soon parted from his money).

232 calochortus  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 10:31:38am

re: #231 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce

My sympathies.

I am fortunate to have a very good, trustworthy mechanic (and the money to pay him), because neither the hubs, nor I know or care much about cars’ internal workings.
I’ve only a couple times run into salesmen who didn’t at least pretend to respect me as a customer. I could never figure out how those guys made a living if they weren’t interested in people with money who wanted to buy a car.

233 thedopefishlives  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 10:32:01am

re: #231 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce

When I went to the local Volkswagen dealership, I had made it known previously that I was interested in one of their TDI Diesel cars. They had one on the lot that I had my eye on, and of course the sales lady was absolutely eager to sell me this $20,000 car. After I did some math at the dealership, I asked her if she had any of the (about $7000 cheaper) gasoline-powered Jettas on the lot. The sales lady immediately turned into an ice cube and was, to be blunt, completely unprofessional with me and the Mrs. Fish. It may have been my first car-buying experience, but even I knew I could walk out on her after that.

234 Stanley Sea  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 10:32:34am

Reading about this today.

You know, sometimes someone at your door just needs help, is not out to get you.

Such fear, such horrible waste.

235 sagehen  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 10:33:02am

re: #222 Decatur Deb

Get the idea that we’re just not supposed to work on newer cars any more. The old LR has a bearing kit that allows you to upgrade the >door hinges when they wear out. If you can, imagine a new car lasting long enough to wear out the hinges.

That’s because Land Rovers, like the name implies, are intended to be useful for people who live nowhere near a city.

236 Decatur Deb  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 10:34:07am

re: #231 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce

That was painful, but now you have a great tale to tell, and a proper appreciation of your role in the auto business food chain.

237 Decatur Deb  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 10:36:49am

re: #235 sagehen

That’s because Land Rovers, like the name implies, are intended to be useful for people who live nowhere near a city.

I’ve got an LR book, Working in the Wild. Did you know you can make an ignition capacitor from your two license plates and a dried banana leaf? (For real.)

238 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 10:37:11am

re: #230 thedopefishlives

I honestly don’t know. I do know that the look on the parts geek’s face when I put the micrometer on the rotor fresh out of the box and showed him it was under spec was absolutely priceless.

I would have been appalled to find the parts weren’t up to code.

239 Political Atheist  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 10:37:25am

re: #139 ObserverArt

I don’t! But I did.

Luckily, Columbus has days where you can drive to area parks to recycle electronics and other household items and hazardous chemicals. So, all that stuff went out a few years ago.

Anyone remember SyQuest storage devices??? 44 or 88 megs stored on one bis ass hard disk at a time. Woot!!!

Then came Zip drives…then CD writers/DVDs/thumbdrives.

I can’t think of all the dollars graphic arts has cost me for the “technology” race.

The numbers get bigger, the game remains the same. As a photographer that runs raw files, or even worse HD or HD+ video, I am seemingly stuck in the storage ,backup,full drive,lather,rinse,repeat cycle. Then factor in up to 3 cameras a “workflow” is a burden not a buzzword.

HD= about a gig a minute. Raw camera stills 25 meg each. (And that’s a 5 year old camera)

240 Political Atheist  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 10:41:00am

re: #230 thedopefishlives

re: #238 Dark_Falcon

I would have been appalled to find the parts weren’t up to code.

These are the kind of things class action suits are all about.

Dopefish, did they get another out that was up to spec., or were all of them thin?

241 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 10:41:02am

re: #234 Stanley Sea

Reading about this today.

You know, sometimes someone at your door just needs help, is not out to get you.

Such fear, such horrible waste.

[Embedded content]

The story is missing some context, though likely not by fault of the reporter. The breed, size, and disposition of the dogs is something I’d need to know to form a complete opinion of the case.

242 thedopefishlives  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 10:41:45am

re: #240 Political Atheist

re: #238 Dark_Falcon

These are the kind of things class action suits are all about.

Dopefish, did they get another out that was up to spec., or were all of them thin?

That’s the size they make them. They didn’t have anything that was the “proper” size.

243 Lord of the Pies  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 10:42:22am

re: #231 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce

Car salesmen (yes they are mostly men) still think women car shoppers are the stupidest consumers on the planet.

One thing I like about being an automotive employee is that I get a corporate code and that’s the price, there’s no room for negotiating. I always know the exact option package that I want and if they have it on the lot, that’s fine but I can wait for a special order.

One thing I liked when I worked at GM, we could buy corporate vehicles that had been used by upper management for not more than 90 days.

244 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 10:42:29am

re: #239 Political Atheist

I love my micro4/3 Olympus digital kit. It’s really nice.

But sometimes you just gotta step back for a moment. Pull a roll of Plus-X out of the fridge and load up something as pure an simple as a 50 year old rangefinder…

Image: MKLWm38.jpg

245 Decatur Deb  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 10:43:39am

re: #240 Political Atheist

These are the kind of things class action suits are all about.

Dopefish, did they get another out that was up to spec., or were all of them thin?

Might be two different standards—one manufacturer/DOT, the other set by the retailer at the insistence of their lawyers.

246 thedopefishlives  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 10:44:55am

re: #245 Decatur Deb

Might be two different standards—one manufacturer/DOT, the other set by the retailer at the insistence of their lawyers.

Yeah. Being 3rd party parts, there’s no guarantee that they’re going to be within the manufacturer’s recommended specifications as concerns being able to be turned. They just have to meet the minimum for safety regulations, I’d assume.

247 Lord of the Pies  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 10:45:14am
248 Decatur Deb  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 10:45:39am

re: #244 William Barnett-Lewis

I love my micro4/3 Olympus digital kit. It’s really nice.

But sometimes you just gotta step back for a moment. Pull a roll of Plus-X out of the fridge and load up something as pure an simple as a 50 year old rangefinder…

Image: MKLWm38.jpg

Ah…that will take the f/.95 lens. (Still found on eBay.)

249 calochortus  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 10:45:45am

re: #243 Pumpkin Pie Of Zion

Car salesmen (yes they are mostly men) still think women car shoppers are the stupidest consumers on the planet.

They also often suffer from the misconception that men make the car buying decisions in a family.

250 thedopefishlives  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 10:46:28am

re: #249 calochortus

They also often suffer from the misconception that men make the car buying decisions in a family.

Pro tip for any car salesmen reading this thread: The Mrs. Fish picked out my daily driver car. She told me which one she wanted us to drive home.

251 Stanley Sea  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 10:47:00am

re: #241 Dark_Falcon

The story is missing some context, though likely not by fault of the reporter. The breed, size, and disposition of the dogs is something I’d need to know to form a complete opinion of the case.

Why not just keep your door closed & if you are still afraid call the cops?

252 calochortus  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 10:48:13am

re: #251 Stanley Sea

Why not just keep your door closed & if you are still afraid call the cops?

Of course, depending on where you live and whether your municipality can/wishes to pay for adequate police services, that might be a while.

253 calochortus  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 10:50:02am

re: #250 thedopefishlives

Pro tip for any car salesmen reading this thread: The Mrs. Fish picked out my daily driver car. She told me which one she wanted us to drive home.

Yeah, for the last 20 or 30 years surveys have shown that women have at least as much say in the purchase of a family car as men-and it’s not all about the color. Some salesmen apparently still haven’t gotten the memo.

254 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 10:50:41am

re: #252 calochortus

Of course, depending on where you live and whether your municipality can/wishes to pay for adequate police services, that might be a while.

Mr. Hendrix may also have gone outside wanting to help initially, only to find what he thought were hostile dogs and an owner who would not speak to him.

We’ll have to wait and see.

255 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 10:51:15am

re: #234 Stanley Sea

Reading about this today.

You know, sometimes someone at your door just needs help, is not out to get you.

Such fear, such horrible waste.

[Embedded content]

Jesushchristonafuckingbicycle, did that 72 yr old man look like Clint Eastwood in his heyday to that 34 yr old wuss?

Goddamnit, I’m 72 and I would not have ever been afraid of that man. If you were observant, you would have probably noticed his condition.

More on that story. It wasn’t even the 34 yr old’s house, and he went outside with his gun looking.

wrcbtv.com

256 wrenchwench  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 10:51:21am

re: #231 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce

Jesus H. Hubert Humphrey Herbert Walker Milhous Nixon Jong-Il Nikola Tesla River Tam Late Seventies Jack Nicholson Christ, did I ever get treated like the only woman on a pirate ship the last time I bought a car.

I don’t like the part after the comma, but the part before the comma more than makes up for it.

257 Lord of the Pies  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 10:51:25am

re: #249 calochortus

They also often suffer from the misconception that men make the car buying decisions in a family.

I have always made all the car purchasing decisions since DUH! I’m the professional here.

258 thedopefishlives  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 10:51:55am

re: #253 calochortus

Yeah, for the last 20 or 30 years surveys have shown that women have at least as much say in the purchase of a family car as men-and it’s not all about the color. Some salesmen apparently still haven’t gotten the memo.

It’s true that most men write the check, but usually they just tell their wife to pick out something they like within a given price range. Exactly what I did with our new car - I told my wife the options we were setting out to look at, and when we finally got to the Chevy dealership, she told me (out of earshot of the dealer, of course) that the car we’d just test driven was the one we were driving away with.

259 calochortus  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 10:52:00am

re: #254 Dark_Falcon

I really don’t know enough about the story to comment.

260 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 10:52:07am

re: #253 calochortus

Yeah, for the last 20 or 30 years surveys have shown that women have at least as much say in the purchase of a family car as men-and it’s not all about the color. Some salesmen apparently still haven’t gotten the memo.

Or if they are men they might not want to believe what is written on the memo. Some men believe “men should decide” simply to bolster their own ego.

261 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 10:53:25am

re: #248 Decatur Deb

Ah…that will take the f/.95 lens. (Still found on eBay.)

True, though their 50/1.4 was a far better lens. I really need a 35/2.8 or faster lens for it right now though.

262 ObserverArt  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 10:55:22am

re: #227 Romantic Heretic

Um, really? You have no idea how much of a ‘get a real computer’ bullshit I faced from the Windows people back in the day.

They reminded me of hot rodeos. If you weren’t willing to open the hood and play with the hardware you weren’t a real computer person. But Apple products are and always have been “for the rest of us.”

Keep in mind, I am in graphic arts and that is what my comments are generated from. You are addressing computer geeks, I’m talking about art geeks.

I completely understand your point too. As a matter of fact, the reason I ended up with Windows systems was that very reason. The small tech ad agency I worked for had a client that sold PCs and he talked the owner into going with Windoze systems. So, that WAS a PC techie driving that decision as they felt exactly the way you mentioned.

Problem was I was still a graphic artist and I knew that the industry was dominated by Mac. My abuse came from the Mac users once I had to start swimming upstream. That drove me to prove them wrong and to coin my phrase.

Remember, the gist of my whole post was this:

To me it is like two artist fighting over whether they use Grumbacher or Windsor & Newton artist brushes. All I care about is finished product and the art.
Read more at littlegreenfootballs.com

They are tools.

263 calochortus  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 10:56:16am

re: #258 thedopefishlives

I used to pick out “my” car and my husband used to pick out “his” since our driving needs were different (Mom gets stuck with the station wagon or minivan.)
Now that the kids are grown, whomever is going farthest takes the Prius, the old Subaru wagon is for local trips.

Safe, reliable, suited to its purpose, preferably not ugly are the criteria.

264 calochortus  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 10:57:37am

re: #260 Dark_Falcon

Or if they are men they might not want to believe what is written on the memo. Some men believe “men should decide” simply to bolster their own ego.

You’d think their ego would be boosted more by getting a commission on a sale.

265 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 10:58:03am

In the 70s, I was seriously considering getting a small truck. The dealership I looked for one would not sell it to me, trying to talk me into a “nice” sedan.

I’ve always bought all my own vehicles, except for the last one, which actually I paid off for my son when he and his wife split up (it was 2 yrs old). It’s 17 yrs old now and still running (with the same clutch), 287K+ miles.

266 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 10:59:24am

re: #264 calochortus

You’d think their ego would be boosted more by getting a commission on a sale.

Yeah, true that.

BBL

267 thedopefishlives  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 10:59:57am

re: #263 calochortus

I used to pick out “my” car and my husband used to pick out “his” since our driving needs were different (Mom gets stuck with the station wagon or minivan.)
Now that the kids are grown, whomever is going farthest takes the Prius, the old Subaru wagon is for local trips.

Safe, reliable, suited to its purpose, preferably not ugly are the criteria.

At the time, we still had the Mrs. Fish’s truck, so this car was intended to be a “both of us” car and we used the truck for when I was at work or if we needed to haul something. We sold the truck shortly thereafter and upgraded it to the Town Car, so now we’re in a mode where we can probably go to “his and hers” car shopping. Means I’ll probably wind up with my TDI after the Malibu goes away, assuming that we haven’t gone to a new better fuel model by then.

268 ObserverArt  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 11:00:25am

re: #228 Dark_Falcon

Making sub-standard parts like that sounds like a lawsuit in the making to me. I also wonder if there are federal or state regulations on point on matters such as that.

I don’t think that is the case. General practice now is close tolerance. Most manufacturers now ask/demand that brake rotors only have one go-around. The brake pad friction materials are much better now, and the wear and heat cycling of them make the car parts people wary of using or turning old rotors. Plus, new rotors are so cheap anymore.

Been in the racing/performance and OEM/Sport car parts market for years. Still have many connections.

269 Decatur Deb  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 11:04:23am

re: #261 William Barnett-Lewis

True, though their 50/1.4 was a far better lens. I really need a 35/2.8 or faster lens for it right now though.

My first decent camera was my ‘58 Canonflex R. Trying to decide whether to chuck photography, or go for a 645 with a back. What I really want is a micro view camera with a decent chip.

270 Political Atheist  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 11:06:51am

re: #269 Decatur Deb

My first decent camera was my ‘58 Canonflex R. Trying to decide whether to chuck photography, or go for a 645 with a back. What I really want is a micro view camera with a decent chip.

Love the 645!!!

271 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 11:09:05am

re: #207 Decatur Deb

There is a threshold for value buying. Now I can afford a Land’s End shirt and wear it for years until Wife makes me throw it away. Same with an Estwing hammer, that will outlast 3 $10.00 ones from Harbor Freight. But it takes a minimum surplus income to use that strategy.

At least you have a hammer, and a designer hammer at that.

Do you know what I would do if I had I hammer?

If I had a hammer, I’d hammer in the morning.

I’d hammer in the evening. All over this land. (FUCK THE POLICE!)

I’d hammer out danger.

I’d hammer out a warning.

I’d hammer out severe discontent that “Firefly” only lasted 14 episodes,

All over this land.

272 Lord of the Pies  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 11:09:48am

#USuckukkah

273 calochortus  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 11:14:02am

re: #272 Pumpkin Pie Of Zion

Umm, yeah. What could be funnier than that?
/

Anyhoo, BBL. I need to get some stuff done.

274 jaunte  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 11:15:26am

re: #272 Pumpkin Pie Of Zion

I don’t know what it is about people wanting to get a few dollars more for a days work that brings out the asshole in some observers, but there seems to be a large supply.

275 Lord of the Pies  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 11:15:47am

#USuckukkah

276 Eclectic Cyborg  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 11:17:54am

#USuckukkah

Was this meant to be a Peanut reference?

277 ObserverArt  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 11:18:38am

re: #233 thedopefishlives

When I went to the local Volkswagen dealership, I had made it known previously that I was interested in one of their TDI Diesel cars. They had one on the lot that I had my eye on, and of course the sales lady was absolutely eager to sell me this $20,000 car. After I did some math at the dealership, I asked her if she had any of the (about $7000 cheaper) gasoline-powered Jettas on the lot. The sales lady immediately turned into an ice cube and was, to be blunt, completely unprofessional with me and the Mrs. Fish. It may have been my first car-buying experience, but even I knew I could walk out on her after that.

I’m a VW nut. That is a surprising story. I wonder what was up with the salesperson. The TDi will sell itself with no mark down. High demand for them. The regular gas models need to be pushed and dealt with, so she saw a sure higher sale and thus her commission going down. Still no way to treat a customer. Sad.

278 Eclectic Cyborg  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 11:18:51am

And on a side note, I really, really, REALLY hate the “Get a new job!” morons as if decent jobs are just so plentiful and easy to come by these days and any idiot can just walk down the street and get one without even trying.

279 Lord of the Pies  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 11:19:38am

re: #276 Eclectic Cyborg

#USuckukkah

Was this meant to be a Peanut reference?

No, it’s a riff on Thanksgivukkah.

280 Lord of the Pies  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 11:20:26am

re: #278 Eclectic Cyborg

And on a side note, I really, really, REALLY hate the “Get a new job!” morons as if decent jobs are just so plentiful and easy to come by these days and any idiot can just walk down the street and get one without even trying.

HURR HURR

281 Charles Johnson  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 11:21:04am
282 Lord of the Pies  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 11:21:09am

Does Walmart hire random, untrained teenagers off the streets? I thought you had to fill out a 5-page application.

283 wrenchwench  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 11:23:23am

re: #282 Pumpkin Pie Of Zion

Does Walmart hire random, untrained teenagers off the streets? I thought you had to fill out a 5-page application.

And pass a drug screen. That is sooooo far from random….

284 Varek Raith  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 11:23:43am

re: #281 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Obama must now realize there are millions of rich Nigerian princes giving away money on the webz.

285 jaunte  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 11:24:07am
286 Lord of the Pies  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 11:24:20am

#USuckukkah

287 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 11:24:27am

Soooo. How much more of taxpayers’ money is Walmart sucking up with this bullshit? Frankly, I think it’s greedy 18 yr olds who are sitting in the executive suite.

The #WalmartFights Hashtag Is The Most Disturbing Part Of Black Friday

Interestingly, many of these incidents occurred on Thanksgiving Day. Updated.

buzzfeed.com

288 Lord of the Pies  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 11:25:46am

How can a multi-billion international company like Walmart be “bullied”? That doesn’t even make any fucking sense. Only countries with standing armies are capable of bullying Walmart.

289 Charles Johnson  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 11:26:38am
290 wrenchwench  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 11:26:54am

The whole idea of a strike is this:

If one guy walks out, no biggie. He can be replaced, or just make all the other guys and gals work harder.

If all your employees walk out together, you start losing money immediately. Even if they were all random 18 year olds. You must fix it right away. Often, this means you have to talk to the people who walked out.

That’s why they say, ‘the union makes us strong’.

291 klys  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 11:27:16am

re: #285 jaunte

Well yeah, otherwise the fast food would go away! Or something. Ideology. Rar.

//////

292 Eventual Carrion  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 11:27:20am

re: #286 Pumpkin Pie Of Zion

#USuckukkah

#Liberals & #Unions always protest and bully companies like #Walmart. Start your own fucking companies lazy fucks. #tcot #uniteblue
— Boston Dave in Pitt (@orion99da) November 29, 2013

Well in WalMart’s case, have your daddy give it to you. Because that is not being a lazy fuck, that is being in the lucky sperm club.

293 austin_blue  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 11:27:53am

re: #165 A Mom Anon

OK Lizards, I need some help.

I don’t want to cook a turkey for thanksgiving and a stupid honey baked ham for Christmas anymore. I’m SICK to death of the same thing Every. Stinking. Year. I suggested this this morning and The Husband acted like I just told him I was cheating on him or something,

It’s the same thing every year. I end up throwing out half the ham because no one eats the whole thing, and that honey baked thing is WAY overpriced. It’s not that great either.

So, are there any tasty alternatives I can talk people into and not be treated like I’m some freak of nature or something? Help. Meeeee……

Stuff Cornish game hens with a wild rice stuffing with pecans and dried cherries. Roast.

You’ll be a heroine. No fuss, no leftovers. Delicioso.

294 wrenchwench  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 11:28:29am

re: #289 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Oh, that Steve Smith.

295 Charles Johnson  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 11:29:55am

re: #294 wrenchwench

Oh, that Steve Smith.

I saw the tweet that said he had a degree in “Afro-American Studies” from Oral Roberts University, and the light bulb went on.

296 Lord of the Pies  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 11:31:31am

#USuckukkah
Where are Walmart products made?

297 Varek Raith  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 11:32:43am

re: #296 Pumpkin Pie Of Zion

#USuckukkah
Where are Walmart products made?

[Embedded content]

Image: facepalm.jpg

298 wrenchwench  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 11:32:51am

Obama is a speciesist! He pardons turkeys, but slaughters innocent trees in their prime!

299 Lidane  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 11:34:38am

re: #288 Pumpkin Pie Of Zion

How can a multi-billion international company like Walmart be “bullied”? That doesn’t even make any fucking sense. Only countries with standing armies are capable of bullying Walmart.

Because libruls and union thugs hate capitalism. Questioning a corporation = bullying.

You know, just how this new Pope is a libtard Marxist bully that hates capitalism. Or something.

300 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 11:35:41am

What do the Walton siblings give each other for xmas since they have everything else?

Another WalMart store. Somewhere.

301 Lord of the Pies  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 11:37:55am

#USuckukkah

302 ObserverArt  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 11:38:48am

Foodie tip. I’m munching on some tostadas. Tip is throw a handful of raisins in with the meat as you cook down the water and spices. They plump up a bit and they sure add a nice little sweet bomb to the spices. Mmmmmm.

My brother that lives in Tuscon turned me onto that years ago. I tell friends and most seem to go “ewww!”

I never understand why people have such set ways. Try them in some meat on the side. If you don’t like them, fine. But I bet most will like.

Of course, my one friend’s former wife never did try mole (dark chocolate and spices) sauce in El Pollo Mole. She couldn’t get her mind around chocolate being a spice (duh…what does it taste like without the sugar and milk?). It was okay…more for everyone else that tried it, and she had to sit there and hold her nose while everyone else chowed down once they tried it.

303 Eclectic Cyborg  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 11:39:29am

re: #301 Pumpkin Pie Of Zion

#USuckukkah

[Embedded content]

Try it you ignorant morons. Just try it. You have NO CLUE what it’s like out there.

304 GeneJockey  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 11:40:20am

re: #301 Pumpkin Pie Of Zion

#USuckukkah

[Embedded content]

So, on the one hand they complain that there are no jobs because Obama, and on the other that people who are unhappy should go and get a different nonexistent job?

Must be nice to be Conservative and not have to make sense.

305 wrenchwench  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 11:40:21am

re: #302 ObserverArt

Foodie tip. I’m munching on some tostadas. Tip is throw a handful of raisins in with the meat as you cook down the water and spices. They plump up a bit and they sure add a nice little sweet bomb to the spices. Mmmmmm.

My brother that lives in Tuscon turned me onto that years ago. I tell friends and most seem to go “ewww!”

I never understand why people have such set ways. Try them in some meat on the side. If you don’t like them, fine. But I bet most will like.

Of course, my one friend’s former wife never did try mole (dark chocolate and spices) sauce in El Pollo Mole. She couldn’t get her mind around chocolate being a spice (duh…what does it taste like without the sugar and milk?). It was okay…more for everyone else that tried it, and she had to sit there and hold her nose while everyone else chowed down once they tried it.

Chile powder in hot chocolate is practically standard around here.

306 wrenchwench  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 11:41:23am

re: #303 Eclectic Cyborg

Try it you ignorant morons. Just try it. You have NO CLUE what it’s like out there.

I bet a bunch of them DO know, but have to pretend that they don’t so they can hang out with the big assholes.

307 ObserverArt  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 11:42:09am

re: #305 wrenchwench

Chile powder in hot chocolate is practically standard around here.

That sounds good too. Goes the other way. I haven’t made hot chocolate in some time. I’m gonna make up some just to try that! How much do you add…a pinch, 1/2 teaspoon, more?

308 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 11:42:43am

re: #269 Decatur Deb

My first decent camera was my ‘58 Canonflex R. Trying to decide whether to chuck photography, or go for a 645 with a back. What I really want is a micro view camera with a decent chip.

I’d recommend, heartily, the Olympus & Panasonic line of Micro 4/3 cameras. Get the E-M1, for example, and it will serve you very well.

As for view cams, ah, well, I do still have and use them too. But backs for them are almost as obscene as scanners that can do that large a neg.

309 Backwoods_Sleuth  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 11:42:46am

re: #302 ObserverArt


My chili is always a hit and people ask for the recipe.
I don’t have a recipe per se (ie the kind that has actual measurements).
But I do have a not-so-sekret ingredient: chocolate.

310 Lord of the Pies  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 11:44:05am

re: #304 GeneJockey

So, on the one hand they complain that there are no jobs because Obama, and on the other that people who are unhappy should go and get a different nonexistent job?

Must be nice to be Conservative and not have to make sense.

HURR HURR I PAID MY OWN WAY I BUILT UP MY OWN BUSINESS WITH NOTHING BUT GUMPTION AND CAN-DO ATTITUDE AND WHITE MALE PRIVILEGE, AND I ALSO WORKED SIX JRRBS UPHILL IN SNOW BOTH WAYZ AND I ALSO SERVED IN TEH NAVY SEALS & TEH DELTA FORCE & TEH MARINES & I PAID CASH ON THE BARREL HEAD FOR MY BRAND NEW MERCEDES WHICH I EARNED ALL BY MYSELF!!!!!!

311 wrenchwench  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 11:44:41am

OK, now I’m hungry, for the first time since yesterday.

312 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 11:45:06am

re: #234 Stanley Sea

Reading about this today.

You know, sometimes someone at your door just needs help, is not out to get you.

Such fear, such horrible waste.

[Embedded content]

The law is clear, he had grounds to feel threatened, he had the right to shoot to kill. These laws are gonna have a long list of victims before anyone considers repealing them.

313 ObserverArt  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 11:45:12am

re: #309 Backwoods_Sleuth

My chili is always a hit and people ask for the recipe.
I don’t have a recipe per se (ie the kind that has actual measurements).
But I do have a not-so-sekret ingredient: chocolate.

Do you ever buy mole sauce? Kroger carries the Dona Maria brand and it is pretty good. You can cut some of that just as is into chile (I do) and get similar results, plus it has extra spices and some sesame oil in it too.

314 wrenchwench  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 11:45:15am

Hey, I didn’t have any chocolate yesterday! No wonder it seemed all wrong!

315 Sol Berdinowitz  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 11:46:03am

re: #247 Pumpkin Pie Of Zion

Obamas Have 9 Kinds Of Pie For Thanksgiving, Wingnuts Outraged]

We always have an EVEN number of pies at thanksgiving!

316 Lidane  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 11:46:31am

re: #301 Pumpkin Pie Of Zion

Every time someone babbles about just changing jobs like it’s something easy that you can just do, that tells me they haven’t been in the job market for a while.

Get laid off then tell me it’s easy to just go find another job. Pfft.

317 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 11:47:24am

re: #312 Sol Berdinowitz

The law is clear, he had grounds to feel threatened, he had the right to shoot to kill. These laws are gonna have a long list of victims before anyone considers repealing them.

It’s a truly depressing thing to see these laws being made that are more regressive and uncivilized than the 1000 years of common law we replaced the Weregeld with.

318 Backwoods_Sleuth  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 11:47:32am

re: #313 ObserverArt

Do you ever buy mole sauce? Kroger carries the Dona Maria brand and it is pretty good. You can cut some of that just as is into chile (I do) and get similar results, plus it has extra spices and some sesame oil in it too.

I’ve never had store-bought mole sauce, but I’ll check at Kroger’s next time because it would be handy to have some on hand in the pantry.

319 Lord of the Pies  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 11:47:39am

re: #316 Lidane

Every time someone babbles about just changing jobs like it’s something easy that you can just do, that tells me they haven’t been in the job market for a while.

Get laid off then tell me it’s easy to just go find another job. Pfft.

HURR HURR ONLY TEH MOAST WORTHLESS LOSERS WORK AT WALMART!!!111! THEY DON’T DESERVE TO BE PAID AT ALL!!!!!!!

320 Political Atheist  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 11:47:42am

re: #307 ObserverArt

That sounds good too. Goes the other way. I haven’t made hot chocolate in some time. I’m gonna make up some just to try that! How much do you add…a pinch, 1/2 teaspoon, more?

re: #305 wrenchwench

Chile powder in hot chocolate is practically standard around here.

Timing. I was just looking at this… Champurrado- Almost a meal.
foodnetwork.com

BTW when I make meat for tacos it gets a pinch of cinnamon.

321 ObserverArt  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 11:48:11am

re: #311 wrenchwench

OK, now I’m hungry, for the first time since yesterday.

Sorry!

A tip with mole sauce. Add sugar as wanted. The more you add, the more it takes on the taste of “chocolate” that people are accustomed to. The less, the more bitter. I go for when it just starts to turn sweet, but I don’t want it too sweet to take away from the spice flavorings.

322 wrenchwench  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 11:48:23am


Miercoles? Es El Viernes Negro.

323 GeneJockey  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 11:48:32am

re: #306 wrenchwench

I bet a bunch of them DO know, but have to pretend that they don’t so they can hang out with the big assholes.

See my response above. I’ve come to the conclusion that Conservatism and Libertarianism are comprised solely of ‘Principles’ and slogans and that the people who follow either don’t want to think deeper than that, so they’ll say without the slightest irony that young people don’t need health insurance but the ones who get expensively injured or ill should have had health insurance, or that Liberals are using gay marriage to usher in Sharia law.

324 Varek Raith  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 11:48:38am
325 HoosierHoops  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 11:48:39am

Happy Friday! Watching Bizarre foods on TV..Need to take Winston out for his walk..Beautiful Sunny day here. Anyhoo..Watching the Napa Valley Bizarre food episode. I’m very proud of the great food coming out of the Valley.
One little quibble.. Jelly Belly Company, The world’s largest Jelly Bean mfg. is not in Napa Valley. It’s over the Hill in Fairfield.
God, I sound just like a snob from Napa Valley.

326 Lord of the Pies  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 11:49:19am

re: #322 wrenchwench

[Embedded content]

Miercoles? Es El Viernes Negro.

Chicago INDIANA?

327 Backwoods_Sleuth  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 11:49:45am

re: #322 wrenchwench

[Embedded content]


Miercoles? Es El Viernes Negro.

hahahaaa!
Pretty photo, though.

328 Varek Raith  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 11:50:03am

re: #325 HoosierHoops

Happy Friday! Watching Bizarre foods on TV..Need to take Winston out for his walk..Beautiful Sunny day here. Anyhoo..Watching the Napa Valley Bizarre food episode. I’m very proud of the great food coming out of the Valley.
One little quibble.. Jelly Belly Company, The world’s largest Jelly Bean mfg. is not in Napa Valley. It’s over the Hill in Fairfield.
God, I sound just like a snob from Napa Valley.

It’s okay.
I do the same thing when the media says the Pentagon is in DC.
;)

329 Eclectic Cyborg  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 11:50:09am

re: #326 Pumpkin Pie Of Zion

Chicago INDIANA?

I know, I’m confused too.

330 wrenchwench  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 11:50:18am

re: #326 Pumpkin Pie Of Zion

Chicago INDIANA?

Oh yeah. That too. Also.

331 Backwoods_Sleuth  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 11:50:44am

re: #326 Pumpkin Pie Of Zion

Chicago INDIANA?

It’s spreading!
Seal that border!!11!!

332 klys  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 11:51:15am

re: #326 Pumpkin Pie Of Zion

Chicago INDIANA?

At least they didn’t put it in Squaresies.

333 Backwoods_Sleuth  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 11:51:20am

re: #330 wrenchwench

Oh yeah. That too. Also.

I’m still snickering about “Miercoles? Es El Viernes Negro.”

334 HoosierHoops  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 11:52:26am

re: #326 Pumpkin Pie Of Zion

Chicago INDIANA?

Yup.. The lake borders Indiana and Chicago. Lot’s of people visit the dunes in Indiana to get away from the City.

335 GeneJockey  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 11:53:11am

re: #320 Political Atheist

Timing. I was just looking at this… Champurrado- Almost a meal.
foodnetwork.com

BTW when I make meat for tacos it gets a pinch of cinnamon.

I found a recipe for pork and black bean stew with red chiles that uses cumin, cinnamon and honey. You have to titrate the honey but when I hit the right balance the depth of the flavors makes me want to eat it till I burst.

336 Interesting Times  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 11:54:56am

re: #332 dr. klys

At least they didn’t put it in Squaresies.

Ha! That whole thing inspired me to seek out these quizzes:

Map of Europe Quiz

Map of US States quiz*

*I’m Canadian, ergo, valid excuse for not initially being able to label all the Southern states within the time limit. I was too used to thinking of them as one big lump called “Confederacy” o_O

337 Lord of the Pies  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 11:55:09am
338 ObserverArt  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 11:56:25am

re: #318 Backwoods_Sleuth

I’ve never had store-bought mole sauce, but I’ll check at Kroger’s next time because it would be handy to have some on hand in the pantry.

Usually right around all the tacos, refried beans and all the other Mexican products. Small jar that looks like an old fashioned glass with a pressed metal top on it. A jar usually makes two to three servings depending how much sauce you make. I make a lot, because I’m addicted to it! It mixes well with refried beans and rice…sometimes I think I could forget the chicken!

I usually get chicken broth almost to a boil then start spooning it in, add some sugar, taste and keep working it up. Then I thicken further with some starch or Wondra flour like you would any gravy/sauce.

By the way…Kroger has the LaPrefferida Fat Free refried beans that are real good too. Some pre-cooked large chicken chunks thrown into the thickened sauce, some long grain brown rice…HEAVEN!

339 GeneJockey  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 11:57:18am

re: #323 GeneJockey

See my response above. I’ve come to the conclusion that Conservatism and Libertarianism are comprised solely of ‘Principles’ and slogans and that the people who follow either don’t want to think deeper than that, so they’ll say without the slightest irony that young people don’t need health insurance but the ones who get expensively injured or ill should have had health insurance, or that Liberals are using gay marriage to usher in Sharia law.

BTW, I suspect this is why Dark Falcon has developed a tendency to tell Obdicut he doesn’t want to answer a particular question today. I think Dark says something that’s kneejerk wingnut without thinking, then gets brought up short when Obdi asks him to take it the logical next step.

340 Backwoods_Sleuth  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 11:58:07am

re: #338 ObserverArt

Usually right around all the tacos, refried beans and all the other Mexican products. Small jar that looks like an old fashioned glass with a pressed metal top on it. A jar usually makes two to three servings depending how much sauce you make. I make a lot, because I’m addicted to it! It mixes well with refried beans and rice…sometimes I think I could forget the chicken!

I usually get chicken broth almost to a boil then start spooning it in, add some sugar, taste and keep working it up. Then I thicken further with some starch or Wondra flour like you would any gravy/sauce.

By the way…Kroger has the LaPrefferida Fat Free refried beans that are real good too. Some pre-cooked large chicken chunks thrown into the thickened sauce, some long grain brown rice…HEAVEN!

My Kroger shopping list grows…
thanks!

341 ausador  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 12:01:48pm

I just had leftover apple/bacon stuffing and candied yams for lunch, with smoked ham and some green bean casserole on the menu for dinner tonight, lol.

I estimate that it is going to be exclusively a Thanksgiving leftover menu around here for at least the next two days. Even then I will still have several pint containers of soup made from the turkey carcass in the freezer to get around to eating later.

342 ObserverArt  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 12:02:35pm

re: #329 Eclectic Cyborg

I know, I’m confused too.

Gary Indiana, a Chicago “suburb” neither state stakes a claim too.

/

343 kirkspencer  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 12:02:46pm

re: #165 A Mom Anon

OK Lizards, I need some help.

I don’t want to cook a turkey for thanksgiving and a stupid honey baked ham for Christmas anymore. I’m SICK to death of the same thing Every. Stinking. Year. I suggested this this morning and The Husband acted like I just told him I was cheating on him or something,

It’s the same thing every year. I end up throwing out half the ham because no one eats the whole thing, and that honey baked thing is WAY overpriced. It’s not that great either.

So, are there any tasty alternatives I can talk people into and not be treated like I’m some freak of nature or something? Help. Meeeee……

Sorry about being late to this thing. Some suggestions.

For truly off the wall: my brother hates turkey, so The Meal at his house is based around lasagna.

A goose - or since size seems to be part of the issue a duck - is a significantly different meal while still hitting the holiday bird meme. And if you really want to take it up a few notches consider duck confit. (With the added advantage that most of the work for that takes place weeks if not months early.)

344 ObserverArt  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 12:06:01pm

re: #335 GeneJockey

I found a recipe for pork and black bean stew with red chiles that uses cumin, cinnamon and honey. You have to titrate the honey but when I hit the right balance the depth of the flavors makes me want to eat it till I burst.

Similar to the magic many Asian dishes have with that sweet versus spicy and sour thing going on.

And it all leaves the British Isles wondering!!!

/// that is a joke…not meant to dig on Brits.

345 dog philosopher  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 12:08:00pm

re: #321 ObserverArt

Sorry!

A tip with mole sauce. Add sugar as wanted. The more you add, the more it takes on the taste of “chocolate” that people are accustomed to. The less, the more bitter. I go for when it just starts to turn sweet, but I don’t want it too sweet to take away from the spice flavorings.

ignatz cat says he likes mole sauce, but rat sauce has more bite to it

346 dog philosopher  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 12:14:18pm

re: #323 GeneJockey

See my response above. I’ve come to the conclusion that Conservatism and Libertarianism are comprised solely of ‘Principles’ and slogans and that the people who follow either don’t want to think deeper than that, so they’ll say without the slightest irony that young people don’t need health insurance but the ones who get expensively injured or ill should have had health insurance, or that Liberals are using gay marriage to usher in Sharia law.

imho the real principles of conservatism are whatever large corporations want plus whatever it is that fundies want to use big government for to impose on other people like banning gay marriage and abortion plus thinly veiled racism

any idealistic “principles” that they are fond of citing in justification of it are to my mind no better than laughable

347 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 12:17:45pm

re: #346 dog philosopher

imho the real principles of conservatism are whatever large corporations want plus whatever it is that fundies want to use big government for to impose on other people like banning gay marriage and abortion plus thinly veiled racism

any idealistic “principles” that they are fond of citing in justification of it are to my mind no better than laughable

The greatest irony about modern “conservatism” is that many of those they cite in support of their positions would laugh themselves silly at them. Burke and Smith for starters but I can imagine others as well.

348 GeneJockey  Fri, Nov 29, 2013 1:23:04pm

re: #347 William Barnett-Lewis

The greatest irony about modern “conservatism” is that many of those they cite in support of their positions would laugh themselves silly at them. Burke and Smith for starters but I can imagine others as well.

SoCons claiming to be followers of Ayn Rand - not that they’re not both reprehensible.


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