Limbaugh: “The Pope Is Ripping America… Obama’s Having an Orgasm”
Just stop
Wingnuts • Views: 26,174
If I never hear Rush Limbaugh talk about anyone (let alone President Obama) having an orgasm again, it will be too soon.
488 comments
1 |
dog philosopher Wed, Dec 4, 2013 4:44:51pm |
by this logic, america == economic exploitation and dislocation
2 |
AlexRogan Wed, Dec 4, 2013 4:45:29pm |
So I heard that Rush rubs one out every time there’s a new Benghazi-gate hearing or ACA repeal bill up on Capitol Hill…
Hey, I’m just asking questions here!
///
3 |
Skip Intro Wed, Dec 4, 2013 4:47:11pm |
And Limbaugh’s evidence for his statement is ………?
4 |
Kragar Wed, Dec 4, 2013 4:48:38pm |
6 |
Charles Johnson Wed, Dec 4, 2013 4:49:25pm |
7 |
Lord of the Pies Wed, Dec 4, 2013 4:50:14pm |
Post this photo of Reagan any time a conservative complains @BarackObama was a a community organizer. #UniteBlue pic.twitter.com/zso4Vv276D— Syd's Soapbox (@heysyd) December 3, 2013
| 8 |
Kragar Wed, Dec 4, 2013 4:50:23pm |
9 |
Amory Blaine Wed, Dec 4, 2013 4:52:49pm |
re: #7 Lord of the Pies
Heh is that Tom Joads in the window?
10 |
lawhawk Wed, Dec 4, 2013 4:53:02pm |
Just stop?
Pope Benedict - denounced capitalism and Marxism. Attacked the inequities between rich and poor.
But even Pope John Paul II had issues with capitalism, even as he was staunchly anti-Communist:
The point of departure for much of the 25,000-word document is the collapse of Communism in Pope John Paul II’s native Poland and other Eastern European countries and the moral and philosophical lessons that those events hold for rebuilding the economies of Eastern Europe and confronting economic inequities throughout the world. ‘Human Needs’ Beyond Market
“The free market is the most efficient instrument for utilizing resources and effectively responding to needs,” the Pope said. “But there are many human needs which find no place on the market,” he immediately added, and many people without the purchasing power to meet their needs through the market. [ Excerpts, page A10. ]
Posing the question whether, “after the failure of Communism,” the market economy should be the goal of Eastern European and third-world countries, the Pope said, “The answer is obviously complex.”
“If by ‘capitalism’ is meant an economic system which recognizes the fundamental and positive role of business, the market, private property and the resulting responsibility” and creativity, “then the answer is certainly yes,” he said.
But if capitalism means an economic system not firmly circumscribed by a framework of laws and rights and an “ethical and religious” understanding of human freedom, “then the reply is certainly negative,” the Pope said.
The encyclical was issued to mark the 100th anniversary of an encyclical by Pope Leo XIII, “Rerum Novarum” (“Of New Things”), which addressed the impoverished conditions of the industrial working class at the end of the 19th century. “Rerum Novarum” is considered the beginning of official Catholic social teaching in the modern era.
Rush just needs to stop.
Capitalism isn’t perfect. Capitalism as preached by Rush and the other trickle downers isn’t perfect. It’s a policy that further concentrates wealth. Even Pope John Paul II saw that. Understood that. And criticized it.
Pope Francis isn’t breaking new ground here. He’s reaffirming the message that people come first, and that poverty is something that must be overcome, and until that can happen, people must do more to help those less fortunate.
11 |
Dark_Falcon Wed, Dec 4, 2013 4:53:51pm |
re: #7 Lord of the Pies
[Embedded content]
Well, Reagan does look in the photo. He always identified himself with football, actually. In later life he sometimes drew doodles of himself as a football player, though more often in the persona of Jo Gippe, whom he had portrayed in Knute Rocke: All American.
| 12 |
Amory Blaine Wed, Dec 4, 2013 4:54:55pm |
These wingnuts feel that their mega churches with their bullshit prosperity gospel is sufficient in numbers to squash any concern for the poor. Are they right?
| 13 |
Skip Intro Wed, Dec 4, 2013 4:55:16pm |
re: #4 Kragar
His ass.
I think Limpballs is trying to change the subject from his attack on the Pope.
14 |
Targetpractice Wed, Dec 4, 2013 4:57:11pm |
Anybody needs me, I’ll be boring a hole into my skull and pouring bleach in to wash away what I just heard from Rush The Hutt.
| 15 |
Amory Blaine Wed, Dec 4, 2013 4:57:30pm |
re: #9 Amory Blaine
Heh is that Tom Joads in the window?
N/M I see it was produced by Tom Joad Lives.
| 16 |
Skip Intro Wed, Dec 4, 2013 4:57:32pm |
re: #9 Amory Blaine
Heh is that Tom Joads in the window?
Sure looks like it to me. And why is his head so much bigger than everyone elses?
| 17 |
Dark_Falcon Wed, Dec 4, 2013 4:58:36pm |
re: #12 Amory Blaine
These wingnuts feel that their mega churches with their bullshit prosperity gospel is sufficient in numbers to squash any concern for the poor. Are they right?
It’s not even ‘wingnuts’ so much as it is Rush and his comically oversized ego. He can’t tolerate being contradicted by anyone.
BBIAB
| 18 |
dog philosopher Wed, Dec 4, 2013 4:58:55pm |
sigh
will i manage to live long enuf to see the somnabitch retire and get his big mouth outta mah face?
19 |
blueraven Wed, Dec 4, 2013 5:00:08pm |
Andrew Sullivan tore into Limbaugh over his remarks about the Pope
Rush Limbaugh Knows Nothing About Christianity
In some ways, of course, Limbaugh is onto something. The Pope of the Catholic Church really is offering a rebuttal to the Pope of the Republican party, which is what Limbaugh has largely become. In daily encyclicals, Rush is infallible in doctrine and not to be questioned in public. When he speaks on the airwaves, it is always ex cathedra. Callers can get an audience from him, but rarely a hearing. Dissent from his eternal doctrines means excommunication from the GOP and the designation of heretic. His is always the last word.
And in the Church of Limbaugh, market capitalism is an unqualified, eternal good. It is the ever-lasting truth about human beings. It is inextricable from any concept of human freedom. The fewer restrictions on it, the better. In that cocooned, infallible context, of course, Pope Francis is indeed a commie:
…Limbaugh’s only recourse when faced with actual Christianity is to conspiracy theories about translations of the Pope’s words. Perhaps it’s the commies who have perpetrated a massive lie through their control of the media. That was Sarah Palin’s response to, when confronted with, you know, Christianity for apparently the first time. But you sense that even Rush is beginning to realize there is something more to this, something that could be very destructive to his sealed, cocooned, materialist ideology of one. Hang on a minute, you almost hear him saying to himself …
Worth reading the whole piece
| 21 |
Amory Blaine Wed, Dec 4, 2013 5:01:55pm |
Preaching to the choir here
Rush’s ego is being pumped up by millions of wingnuts. Some of them hold the levers of power both in government and industry.
22 |
GeneJockey Wed, Dec 4, 2013 5:02:19pm |
re: #1 dog philosopher
by this logic, america == economic exploitation and dislocation
EXACTLY!!! The thing is, if you dare to say that The Free Market is anything less than perfect, you obvously want full-blown Communism instead. I was once having a discussion with a guy WHO TEACHES ECONOMICS about Keynes, and he thought he’d delivered the coup de grace against Keynes when he pointed out that the USSR failed.
| 23 |
GeneJockey Wed, Dec 4, 2013 5:04:20pm |
re: #16 Skip Intro
Sure looks like it to me. And why is his head so much bigger than everyone elses?
Well, you know, he kept going on and on about how “I’ll be there”.
But I don’t remember, “Whenever an art class is drawing a picture of a guy with a football, wearing tighty-whiteys, I’ll be there.”
| 24 |
Targetpractice Wed, Dec 4, 2013 5:05:33pm |
re: #19 blueraven
Andrew Sullivan tore into Limbaugh over his remarks about the Pope
Rush Limbaugh Knows Nothing About Christianity
Worth reading the whole piece
I’d agree with Sully, Rush is a major religious figure in the Church of Rand. Pope? Nah, I’m pretty sure these days that job falls to Crazy Uncle Liberty. But to those of the Church of Our Lady the Sainted Hypocrite, when Limbaugh barks, you don’t even wait to ask “How high?” Michael Steele found out the hard way what happens when one speaks against The Doctrine.
| 25 |
Amory Blaine Wed, Dec 4, 2013 5:07:06pm |
Our current trajectory of falling wages will render all arguments of trickle down moot. Why the fuck do I care what system of government I Iive under if I can’t feed my family and have the hope that one day my children will have it better?
| 26 |
blueraven Wed, Dec 4, 2013 5:08:37pm |
Really Rush?
“Why was 4 dead in Benghazi not a news item”?
Not a news item? BENGHAZI!!!?
Fuck, has he been in a coma for the past year?
| 27 |
dog philosopher Wed, Dec 4, 2013 5:08:49pm |
re: #22 GeneJockey
EXACTLY!!! The thing is, if you dare to say that The Free Market is anything less than perfect, you obvously want full-blown Communism instead. I was once having a discussion with a guy WHO TEACHES ECONOMICS about Keynes, and he thought he’d delivered the coup de grace against Keynes when he pointed out that the USSR failed.
failed to perpetuate a soul sucking fascist state strangled by bureaucracy
they never even claimed to have ever achieved communism, which, in theory, would have led eventually to the “withering away of the state”
ignorant people are ignorant
28 |
Aqua Obama Wed, Dec 4, 2013 5:09:30pm |
Was William McKinley talking about Wal-Mart?
I do not prize the word ‘cheap.’ It is not a word of hope, nor a word of cheer. It is not a word of inspiration. It is the badge of poverty. The signal of distress. Cheap merchandise means cheap men, cheap men means a cheap country.
| 29 |
Lord of the Pies Wed, Dec 4, 2013 5:10:11pm |
NO IT’S NOT
Warren: Making Employers Pay For Birth Control Is 'Like Making A Jewish Deli Sell Pork' VIDEO http://t.co/uFaT0L69Be #p2 #UniteBlue #LibCrib— Matthew Bodin (@MattBodin) December 5, 2013
30 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Dec 4, 2013 5:10:31pm |
re: #10 lawhawk
Just stop?
Pope Benedict - denounced capitalism and Marxism. Attacked the inequities between rich and poor.
But even Pope John Paul II had issues with capitalism, even as he was staunchly anti-Communist:
Rush just needs to stop.
Capitalism isn’t perfect. Capitalism as preached by Rush and the other trickle downers isn’t perfect. It’s a policy that further concentrates wealth. Even Pope John Paul II saw that. Understood that. And criticized it.
Pope Francis isn’t breaking new ground here. He’s reaffirming the message that people come first, and that poverty is something that must be overcome, and until that can happen, people must do more to help those less fortunate.
Yeah, poverty and income inequality has been part of Vatican statements for as long as I can remember. It’s not much new. I really like Francis but the excitement over his statements about poverty are probably the least interesting aspects of what’s going on. Recently Dkos has been praising him as a fellow progressive, I think they’re kinda missing the point.
31 |
Lidane Wed, Dec 4, 2013 5:10:36pm |
re: #10 lawhawk
Pope Francis isn’t breaking new ground here. He’s reaffirming the message that people come first, and that poverty is something that must be overcome, and until that can happen, people must do more to help those less fortunate.
He’s very shrewdly rebranding the Catholic church, too.
By shifting his public focus away from abortion, gays, and women to more universal issues of poverty, income inequality and the problems of unfettered capitalism he’s getting a whole lot of attention. People shouldn’t forget, however, that he’s still the Pope, which means that theologically, he’s just as conservative as Benedict and JPII were. He’s not going to change any of the church doctrine or do anything drastic. He’s just emphasizing social justice over social conservative policy.
It’s hilarious watching my conservative friends calling the Pope an economic illiterate that will consign billions to abject poverty. You know, because there’s no poverty now.
| 32 |
Lord of the Pies Wed, Dec 4, 2013 5:10:43pm |
re: #28 Aqua Obama
Was William McKinley talking about Wal-Mart?
I think he was talking about Teh Juice.
33 |
First As Tragedy, Then As Farce Wed, Dec 4, 2013 5:10:55pm |
I think an entirely appropriate epitaph for Limbaugh would be the same thing that Hitchens said about Fallwell: “If they’d given him an enema, they could have buried him in a matchbox.”
| 34 |
Targetpractice Wed, Dec 4, 2013 5:10:59pm |
re: #26 blueraven
Really Rush?
“Why was 4 dead in Benghazi not a news item”?
Not a news item? BENGHAZI!!!?
Fuck, has he been in a coma for the past year?
Found a new doc willing to write him more phony Oxycontin prescriptions.
//
| 36 |
GeneJockey Wed, Dec 4, 2013 5:12:15pm |
re: #27 dog philosopher
failed to perpetuate a soul sucking fascist state strangled by bureaucracy
they never even claimed to have ever achieved communism, which, in theory, would have led eventually to the “withering away of the state”
ignorant people are ignorant
But hey, they called themselves ‘Socialist’, so the fact that they couldn’t make a go of it invalidates the idea that demand is what drives the economy and that the Government can create demand when businesses and consumers pull back.
37 |
missliberties Wed, Dec 4, 2013 5:12:43pm |
Why does Rush still have a microphone in front of his filthy disrespectul hate filled mouth?
So what are Republican ‘for’ again?
| 38 |
Lidane Wed, Dec 4, 2013 5:13:18pm |
re: #29 Lord of the Pies
Dear Rick Warren,
How’s that saddlebacking from the kids who learn your abstinence only garbage workin’ out for ya? Isn’t it great to have your church become a euphemism for anal sex to maintain purity?
No love,
Me
| 39 |
Targetpractice Wed, Dec 4, 2013 5:13:36pm |
re: #29 Lord of the Pies
NO IT’S NOT
[Embedded content]
They have it the wrong way around. Ruling that employers can decide what your health benefits do and don’t cover is like a Jewish deli owner telling his Catholic employees they can’t use their pay to buy pork products.
40 |
klys Wed, Dec 4, 2013 5:13:54pm |
re: #26 blueraven
Really Rush?
“Why was 4 dead in Benghazi not a news item”?
Not a news item? BENGHAZI!!!?
Fuck, has he been in a coma for the past year?
He’s just admitting what we all know: that Fox “News” isn’t news.
| 41 |
dog philosopher Wed, Dec 4, 2013 5:16:53pm |
re: #22 GeneJockey
the USSR failed
perhaps he could explain to us why the PRC is beating up on us in terms of economic growth, since they are still by far the most socialistic country left on the face of the earth
| 42 |
dog philosopher Wed, Dec 4, 2013 5:18:39pm |
re: #39 Targetpractice
They have it the wrong way around. Ruling that employers can decide what your health benefits do and don’t cover is like a Jewish deli owner telling his Catholic employees they can’t use their pay to buy pork products.
true in principle except that jews don’t have any objection to other people eating anything they like
| 43 |
GeneJockey Wed, Dec 4, 2013 5:19:17pm |
Rush is upset at THIS Pope saying this, because he’s eschewing the princely trappings that generally go with being Pope. If a Pope in the usual gold and satin papa regalia says, “Capitalism is mostly good, but economic inequality is bad”, they figure he’s just blowing smoke and saying what’s expected.
Turn down the gold throne and the fancy robe, though, and it means you might actually be serious about it.
| 44 |
Killgore Trout Wed, Dec 4, 2013 5:20:06pm |
re: #31 Lidane
He’s very shrewdly rebranding the Catholic church, too.
By shifting his public focus away from abortion, gays, and women to more universal issues of poverty, income inequality and the problems of unfettered capitalism he’s getting a whole lot of attention. People shouldn’t forget, however, that he’s still the Pope, which means that theologically, he’s just as conservative as Benedict and JPII were. He’s not going to change any of the church doctrine or do anything drastic. He’s just emphasizing social justice over social conservative policy.
It’s hilarious watching my conservative friends calling the Pope an economic illiterate that will consign billions to abject poverty. You know, because there’s no poverty now.
I don’t know about that. My hopes about potential changes within the Church have been pretty modest but I’m becoming more optimistic. He might be able to get some shit done.
45 |
FemNaziBitch Wed, Dec 4, 2013 5:20:37pm |
OMG! the Paul Walker jokes have started.
People have no shame.
| 46 |
FemNaziBitch Wed, Dec 4, 2013 5:21:18pm |
re: #43 GeneJockey
Rush is upset at THIS Pope saying this, because he’s eschewing the princely trappings that generally go with being Pope. If a Pope in the usual gold and satin papa regalia says, “Capitalism is mostly good, but economic inequality is bad”, they figure he’s just blowing smoke and saying what’s expected.
Turn down the gold throne and the fancy robe, though, and it means you might actually be serious about it.
Melt down the gold throne and give the money to the poor.
nah-it will never happen
| 47 |
GeneJockey Wed, Dec 4, 2013 5:21:25pm |
re: #41 dog philosopher
perhaps he could explain to us why the PRC is beating up on us in terms of economic growth, since they are still by far the most socialistic country left on the face of the earth
They’ve embraced Capitalism!
But he’ll be thinking, “Foxconn” and how they can get people to work 12 hour shifts and live in gender-segregated dormitories, all to make a pittance, so that profits are higher.
48 |
nines09 Wed, Dec 4, 2013 5:22:42pm |
Actually the Pope was ripping this blowhards friends like Bain Capital. Their ongoing rape of Clear Channel is on as we speak. If he was done out of his very well paid livelihood by the Vulture Capitalists he holds near and dear, it would be a very sweet day. Rush needs drugs to come and go. He should wear a manhole cover for a hat. Fits him.
49 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Dec 4, 2013 5:25:02pm |
re: #46 FemNaziBitch
Melt down the gold throne and give the money to the poor.
nah-it will never happen
Plated.
| 52 |
FemNaziBitch Wed, Dec 4, 2013 5:26:36pm |
re: #49 Decatur Deb
Plated.
still would buy a lot of food
better yet, instead of constantly shaking down the average joe for contributions, save the money used to print the yearly box of personalized envelopes and melt the gold to pay the bills.
| 53 |
dog philosopher Wed, Dec 4, 2013 5:27:13pm |
[The] Withering away of the state is a concept of Marxism, coined by Friedrich Engels, and referring to the idea that the social institution of a state will eventually become obsolete and disappear, as the society will be able to govern itself without the state and its coercive enforcement of the law.
does that make communists libertarians or libertarians communists?
| 54 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Dec 4, 2013 5:27:44pm |
| 55 |
FemNaziBitch Wed, Dec 4, 2013 5:28:30pm |
re: #54 Decatur Deb
Who’d buy it? Trump?
the Saudi Royal Family —
or anyone really.
Gold seems to be selling.
I mean someone bought London Bridge.
| 56 |
GeneJockey Wed, Dec 4, 2013 5:28:38pm |
re: #53 dog philosopher
[The] Withering away of the state is a concept of Marxism, coined by Friedrich Engels, and referring to the idea that the social institution of a state will eventually become obsolete and disappear, as the society will be able to govern itself without the state and its coercive enforcement of the law.
does that make communists libertarians or libertarians communists?
Yeah. Funny ‘bout that.
| 57 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Dec 4, 2013 5:29:52pm |
re: #55 FemNaziBitch
the Saudi Royal Family —
or anyone really.
Gold seems to be selling.
That would be worth it, just for Pammy G’s reaction.
| 58 |
moderatelyradicalliberal Wed, Dec 4, 2013 5:30:12pm |
The Pope isn’t insulting America, he’s insulting greed.
| 59 |
GeneJockey Wed, Dec 4, 2013 5:31:41pm |
re: #55 FemNaziBitch
the Saudi Royal Family —
or anyone really.
Gold seems to be selling.
Unless you’re the schmuck who bought at $1889/oz…
| 60 |
SteveMcGazi Wed, Dec 4, 2013 5:31:47pm |
re: #58 moderatelyradicalliberal
The Pope isn’t insulting America, he’s insulting greed.
Didn’t George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Alexander Hamilton and John Smith all say that “Greed is good”? I read it on the internet.
| 61 |
Skip Intro Wed, Dec 4, 2013 5:32:45pm |
re: #58 moderatelyradicalliberal
The Pope isn’t insulting America, he’s insulting greed.
Limbaugh is the one insulting America. His whole career is built on it.
| 62 |
dog philosopher Wed, Dec 4, 2013 5:33:26pm |
re: #60 SteveMcGazi
Didn’t George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Alexander Hamilton and John Smith all say that “Greed is good”? I read it on the internet.
| 64 |
Skip Intro Wed, Dec 4, 2013 5:34:54pm |
re: #60 SteveMcGazi
Didn’t George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Alexander Hamilton and John Smith all say that “Greed is good.” I read it on the internet.
That was supposed to be in the Zeroth Amendment to the Constitution, but the Commie-simps of the day voted it down.
| 65 |
GeneJockey Wed, Dec 4, 2013 5:35:56pm |
re: #60 SteveMcGazi
Didn’t George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Alexander Hamilton and John Smith all say that “Greed is good.” I read it on the internet.
Wingnuts HATE the word ‘Greed’. I used to joke that Socialism fails because it’s based on Altruism, whereas Capitalism succeeds because it’s based on greed.
“It’s not GREED!!! It’s the desire to improve yourself!!”
They couldn’t even accept it in joking terms.
66 |
wrenchwench Wed, Dec 4, 2013 5:37:27pm |
re: #58 moderatelyradicalliberal
The Pope isn’t insulting America, he’s insulting greed.
Which hits Limbaugh where he lives.
| 67 |
SteveMcGazi Wed, Dec 4, 2013 5:37:35pm |
re: #65 GeneJockey
Wingnuts HATE the word ‘Greed’. I used to joke that Socialism fails because it’s based on Altruism, whereas Capitalism succeeds because it’s based on greed.
“It’s not GREED!!! It’s the desire to improve yourself!!”
They couldn’t even accept it in joking terms.
Right wingerz and humor don’t mix.
68 |
RealityBasedSteve Wed, Dec 4, 2013 5:37:46pm |
re: #7 Lord of the Pies
[Embedded content]
This is why you should always have on clean fresh underwear when you go out. You never know when a group of art students will kidnap you and force you to pose for their life sculpting class.
Just a warning,
RBS
| 69 |
Lidane Wed, Dec 4, 2013 5:40:55pm |
re: #44 Killgore Trout
I don’t know about that. My hopes about potential changes within the Church have been pretty modest but I’m becoming more optimistic. He might be able to get some shit done.
LOL keep dreaming. He’s not going to change a thing.
Sure, he might get more attention for the church’s social justice doctrine, but he’s not going to make any drastic moves.
| 70 |
RealityBasedSteve Wed, Dec 4, 2013 5:43:33pm |
I’m wondering how good conservative Catholics that agree with all the pope says will find a way to reconcile his statements and what Obama said today in his speech about income inequality, the widening gap, the need to make sure the people have the tools to move up. If Obama says it… it’s socialism / marxist garbage. If the Pope says it… it is important and should be followed.
It’s almost like they (The Pope and The Prez) had coordinated their speeches.
I’m sure they WILL find a way to handle the cognitive dissonance. They always do.
RBS
71 |
austin_blue Wed, Dec 4, 2013 5:46:01pm |
Rush used to call the pleasure with which Galsnost was greeted among American politicians (which worked out for us fantastically, by the way) as a Gorbasm.
He seems to have a mental trend…
| 72 |
RealityBasedSteve Wed, Dec 4, 2013 5:46:18pm |
| 73 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Dec 4, 2013 5:46:19pm |
re: #69 Lidane
LOL keep dreaming. He’s not going to change a thing.
Sure, he might get more attention for the church’s social justice doctrine, but he’s not going to make any drastic moves.
The Catholic church doesn’t do ‘drastic’. It has a strategy of changing just barely enough to survive for 2000 years while plausibly denying to have changed at all.
| 74 |
SteveMcGazi Wed, Dec 4, 2013 5:48:10pm |
re: #31 Lidane
He’s very shrewdly rebranding the Catholic church, too.
By shifting his public focus away from abortion, gays, and women to more universal issues of poverty, income inequality and the problems of unfettered capitalism he’s getting a whole lot of attention. People shouldn’t forget, however, that he’s still the Pope, which means that theologically, he’s just as conservative as Benedict and JPII were. He’s not going to change any of the church doctrine or do anything drastic. He’s just emphasizing social justice over social conservative policy.
It’s hilarious watching my conservative friends calling the Pope an economic illiterate that will consign billions to abject poverty. You know, because there’s no poverty now.
I have no problem with his being a religious conservative. Sullivan highlights another statement of Pope Francis’ when he said that the greatest sign of humility was to love your enemies. The way I saw it was the Kingdom of God won’t collapse if gay people got married and it won’t be any greater if they couldn’t. I can respect the theological position of God’s gift of sexuality, but that doesn’t mean I would necessarily obey it to the letter. I’m only human.
| 75 |
Lord of the Pies Wed, Dec 4, 2013 5:48:44pm |
re: #39 Targetpractice
They have it the wrong way around. Ruling that employers can decide what your health benefits do and don’t cover is like a Jewish deli owner telling his Catholic employees they can’t use their pay to buy pork products.
That is a more appropriate analogy.
| 76 |
FemNaziBitch Wed, Dec 4, 2013 5:48:59pm |
re: #74 SteveMcGazi
I have no problem with his being a religious conservative. Sullivan highlights another statement of Pope Francis’ when he said that the greatest sign of humility was to love your enemies. The way I saw it was the Kingdom of God won’t collapse if gay people got married and it won’t be any greater if they couldn’t. I can respect the theological position of God’s gift of sexuality, but that doesn’t mean I would necessarily obey it to the letter. I’m only human.
When religious conservatives consider me a human being, I will no longer have a problem with them.
| 77 |
dog philosopher Wed, Dec 4, 2013 5:49:08pm |
re: #72 RealityBasedSteve
They have found the stolen container of Cobalt in Mexico. Don’t know if it’s all there yet.
RBS
cobol is even more dangerous
| 78 |
FemNaziBitch Wed, Dec 4, 2013 5:49:34pm |
re: #77 dog philosopher
cobol is even more dangerous
I was wondering. When I think of cobalt, I think blue.
| 79 |
Lidane Wed, Dec 4, 2013 5:50:07pm |
re: #70 RealityBasedSteve
I’m sure they WILL find a way to handle the cognitive dissonance. They always do.
The wingnut Catholics are either in full apologetics mode or they’re screaming Teh Pope Iz teh Vatican Obummer at full volume. It’s been fun to watch.
Francis wouldn’t be Pope if he was anything other than an arch-conservative theologically. The Cardinals wouldn’t have voted him in otherwise. He’s more openly sympathetic to the poor because of his experiences in Latin America, but he’s just as much a hardliner as Benedict and JPII. There won’t be any major changes to Catholic doctrine or practice while he’s Pope. Count on it.
| 80 |
FemNaziBitch Wed, Dec 4, 2013 5:51:03pm |
This is the best rebuttal to the idea of employers regulating birth, I’ve run across.
Get Your Fake Conscience Objections Off My Lawn -A Quaker’s View of Hobby Lobby’s claims
| 81 |
SteveMcGazi Wed, Dec 4, 2013 5:51:36pm |
re: #76 FemNaziBitch
When religious conservatives consider me a human being, I will no longer have a problem with them.
It is their loss, they just don’t know it.
| 82 |
RealityBasedSteve Wed, Dec 4, 2013 5:53:00pm |
re: #77 dog philosopher
cobol is even more dangerous
When I took my first college programming class I had a choice between FORTRAN and COBOL. I saw that the COBOL people all had shoeboxes full of punchcards, the FORTRAN folks could use 1 rubber band to hold them together. I asked for the one with the “short deck”, (and have been probably playing with one ever since).
RBS
BTW… The Y2K problem was intentionally planned by the COBOL programmers back then. They knew EXACTLY what they were doing, and figured that this way they could make a ton of money about the time they were retiring by coming in and consulting on fixing the problem they created. Prove otherwise!!!!!
| 83 |
Lidane Wed, Dec 4, 2013 5:53:14pm |
re: #76 FemNaziBitch
When religious conservatives consider me a human being, I will no longer have a problem with them.
Yeah, this.
| 84 |
Lord of the Pies Wed, Dec 4, 2013 5:54:24pm |
re: #77 dog philosopher
cobol is even more dangerous
Is there even any COBOL left in the wild? I thought it mostly became extinct after Y2K.
I got a call last week from a recruiter for a FORTRAN project. They want to convert some 30-year-old code to ASP.net.
| 85 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Dec 4, 2013 5:55:58pm |
re: #79 Lidane
The wingnut Catholics are either in full apologetics mode or they’re screaming Teh Pope Iz teh Vatican Obummer at full volume. It’s been fun to watch.
Francis wouldn’t be Pope if he was anything other than an arch-conservative theologically. The Cardinals wouldn’t have voted him in otherwise. He’s more openly sympathetic to the poor because of his experiences in Latin America, but he’s just as much a hardliner as Benedict and JPII. There won’t be any major changes to Catholic doctrine or practice while he’s Pope. Count on it.
Practice changes more easily than doctrine. One possible dramatic change, which would not be at all fundamental, is the married priesthood. There is nothing in RC theology that prevents it, and it might be the only way to staff their parishes. Both priests in my wife’s parish are in their 80s, and years past a normal parish rotation cycle.
| 86 |
Lord of the Pies Wed, Dec 4, 2013 5:56:45pm |
re: #82 RealityBasedSteve
RBS
BTW… The Y2K problem was intentionally planned by the COBOL programmers back then. They knew EXACTLY what they were doing, and figured that this way they could make a ton of money about the time they were retiring by coming in and consulting on fixing the problem they created. Prove otherwise!!!!!
We had 10’s of K to work with, and there was simply no room to store a 4-digit year field.
We did bit flipping to manipulate the 2-digit year field into a 16-byte word.
This was FORTRAN days.
| 87 |
wrenchwench Wed, Dec 4, 2013 5:57:04pm |
re: #81 SteveMcGazi
It is their loss, they just don’t know it.
They are killing women with their policies. There is a lot they don’t know, or don’t want to know. The loss is women’s lives.
| 88 |
RealityBasedSteve Wed, Dec 4, 2013 5:58:03pm |
re: #84 Lord of the Pies
Is there even any COBOL left in the wild? I thought it mostly became extinct after Y2K.
I got a call last week from a recruiter for a FORTRAN project. They want to convert some 30-year-old code to ASP.net.
I know the State of TN still has some COBOL stuff, or so some of my students have told me. As for the Fortran upgrade, I’m sure they figure you can just run it through the “Migrate my code wizard” and it will be done. It’s been so long since I’ve seen Fortran, I’m not sure I’d be able to tell it from xBase (Which I have also forgotten almost everything I once knew about)
RBS
| 89 |
SteveMcGazi Wed, Dec 4, 2013 5:58:29pm |
re: #82 RealityBasedSteve
When I took my first computer class, we were taught FORTRAN. That was at Drexel in 1983. In 2013, I was back to school, and I had to retake Comp Sci. It was far more useful because they taught us how to use Office to make documents with all the things you would need to do in a research paper, spreadsheets and powerpoints. Infinitely more useful.
| 90 |
dog philosopher Wed, Dec 4, 2013 6:00:08pm |
re: #84 Lord of the Pies
Is there even any COBOL left in the wild? I thought it mostly became extinct after Y2K.
sometimes i think so but there was a news item only two or three years ago around here about some local government agency having to rewrite “millions of lines of cobol code” to accommodate some tax changes…
| 91 |
Lord of the Pies Wed, Dec 4, 2013 6:00:27pm |
re: #89 SteveMcGazi
When I took my first computer class, we were taught FORTRAN. That was at Drexel in 1983. In 2013, I was back to school, and I had to retake Comp Sci. It was far more useful because they taught us how to use Office to make documents with all the things you would need to do in a research paper, spreadsheets and powerpoints. Infinitely more useful.
I used to create graphs by using a set of FORTRAN subroutines to plot pixel by pixel.
No I just run the SQL query and send it to the MS Chart Controls. Colors. 3D! PIE CHARTS!
| 92 |
RealityBasedSteve Wed, Dec 4, 2013 6:01:52pm |
re: #86 Lord of the Pies
We had 10’s of K to work with, and there was simply no room to store a 4-digit year field.
We did bit flipping to manipulate the 2-digit year field into a 16-byte word.
This was FORTRAN days.
Yea, next you’re going to tell me that you used a long reels of paper with holes punched in it.
RBS
| 93 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Dec 4, 2013 6:02:05pm |
re: #90 dog philosopher
sometimes i think so but there was a news item only two or three years ago around here about some local government agency having to rewrite “millions of lines of cobol code” to accommodate some tax changes…
One of the problems supposedly encountered by the ACA ‘hub’ was that it had to communicate with 50 legacy systems, some of which used COBOL. Don’t have a link.
| 94 |
Lord of the Pies Wed, Dec 4, 2013 6:02:32pm |
re: #90 dog philosopher
sometimes i think so but there was a news item only two or three years ago around here about some local government agency having to rewrite “millions of lines of cobol code” to accommodate some tax changes…
You would need a computer the size of a city block to store “millions of lines” of code.
It wouldn’t fit on a VAX.
| 95 |
Lord of the Pies Wed, Dec 4, 2013 6:02:47pm |
re: #92 RealityBasedSteve
Yea, next you’re going to tell me that you used a long reels of paper with holes punched in it.
RBS
And green lines!
| 96 |
wrenchwench Wed, Dec 4, 2013 6:03:25pm |
| 97 |
RealityBasedSteve Wed, Dec 4, 2013 6:04:12pm |
re: #95 Lord of the Pies
And green lines!
OH god!!! I had forgotten all about line printers. Those things always scared me, figured that if you got caught in it, it would pull you right in.
RBS
| 98 |
Charles Johnson Wed, Dec 4, 2013 6:04:13pm |
| 99 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Dec 4, 2013 6:05:25pm |
re: #95 Lord of the Pies
And green lines!
My first course included assembling bits of iron core memory. Our instructor said he had seen an ‘integrated circuit’ at Bell Labs, and that someday computers would be as small as(large black) desk telephones.
| 100 |
SteveMcGazi Wed, Dec 4, 2013 6:05:38pm |
re: #87 wrenchwench
They are killing women with their policies. There is a lot they don’t know, or don’t want to know. The loss is women’s lives.
Not seeing the policies that kill women. I know that perverted beliefs get women killed, especially in the Middle East, what with honor killings and stuff like that. It’s tough line to draw. You have preachers who insist that their religion does not call for the killing of women who do this or that and then you have people who insist that God tells them that women must be punished.
| 101 |
austin_blue Wed, Dec 4, 2013 6:05:46pm |
| 102 |
RealityBasedSteve Wed, Dec 4, 2013 6:06:35pm |
re: #91 Lord of the Pies
I used to create graphs by using a set of FORTRAN subroutines to plot pixel by pixel.
No I just run the SQL query and send it to the MS Chart Controls. Colors. 3D! >PIE CHARTS!
I remember doing that…. and I made a mistake on one of my cards, sent a page feed instead of a line feed at the end of each bar. the little man behind the window WAS NOT PLEASED!!!!
RBS
103 |
Varek Raith Wed, Dec 4, 2013 6:06:39pm |
| 104 |
FemNaziBitch Wed, Dec 4, 2013 6:06:43pm |
Cops: ‘Are You Aware Your Daughter Is With Two Black Men?’
The follow-up.
| 105 |
AlexRogan Wed, Dec 4, 2013 6:06:47pm |
re: #91 Lord of the Pies
I used to create graphs by using a set of FORTRAN subroutines to plot pixel by pixel.
No I just run the SQL query and send it to the MS Chart Controls. Colors. 3D! >PIE CHARTS!
We know how you love pie…
| 106 |
SteveMcGazi Wed, Dec 4, 2013 6:07:14pm |
re: #91 Lord of the Pies
I used to create graphs by using a set of FORTRAN subroutines to plot pixel by pixel.
No I just run the SQL query and send it to the MS Chart Controls. Colors. 3D! >PIE CHARTS!
My brother had a black and white picture of Farrah Fawcett made on a dot matrix printer by all kinds of characters. Now they make a full color mosiac out of photos!
| 107 |
dog philosopher Wed, Dec 4, 2013 6:07:15pm |
re: #86 Lord of the Pies
We had 10’s of K to work with, and there was simply no room to store a 4-digit year field.
We did bit flipping to manipulate the 2-digit year field into a 16-byte word.
This was FORTRAN days.
i had a serious problem once when i worked at big company that sold a Big Desktop Application
i desperately needed another integer in a schematized record but the bureaucratic process necessary to get the db backend team to actually change the schema would take many more months than i had to fix the problem
i ended up packing another integer into the available bits since i could rely on the number not going over a certain value and filling up the integer. the table was no longer ‘schematized’ but the bug was fixed
| 108 |
RealityBasedSteve Wed, Dec 4, 2013 6:08:02pm |
re: #99 Decatur Deb
My first course included assembling bits of iron core memory. Our instructor said he had seen an ‘integrated circuit’ at Bell Labs, and that someday computers would be as small as(large black) desk telephones.
I’ve only seen the pictures of those, I imagine that was an exercise in precision work.
RBS
| 109 |
dog philosopher Wed, Dec 4, 2013 6:08:45pm |
re: #94 Lord of the Pies
You would need a computer the size of a city block to store “millions of lines” of code.
It wouldn’t fit on a VAX.
a little journalistic embellishment i’m sure…
110 |
Backwoods_Sleuth Wed, Dec 4, 2013 6:11:45pm |
BREAKING NEWS: Explosion reported at the Mexico City Arena. Smoke and flames can be seen. Arena evacuated. pic.twitter.com/CFfJyHw7TA
— PzFeed Top News (@PzFeed) December 5, 2013
| 111 |
Varek Raith Wed, Dec 4, 2013 6:11:53pm |
| 112 |
FemNaziBitch Wed, Dec 4, 2013 6:12:16pm |
re: #104 FemNaziBitch
Cops: ‘Are You Aware Your Daughter Is With Two Black Men?’
The follow-up.
It looks like this girl can dance. I’ve known a couple of young dancers and since they have chosen dance as a career, they are often homeschooled. Dancers have to start very early to make a body that can compete for a career.
| 113 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Dec 4, 2013 6:13:25pm |
re: #108 RealityBasedSteve
I’ve only seen the pictures of those, I imagine that was an exercise in precision work.
RBS
The ‘mass storage’ of the time was real mass storage—a drum filled with concrete spinning on air bearing as a couple hundred rpm. if the bearing failed, computer science met physics.
| 114 |
FemNaziBitch Wed, Dec 4, 2013 6:13:35pm |
Yes, I never thought of it that way before. It’s America! after-all.
Brave New World is not like the Old World.
| 115 |
Egregious Philbin Wed, Dec 4, 2013 6:14:44pm |
Fat, drugged and flaccid is no way to go through life.
What a seriously defective person this is. Expect a complete breakdown from this clown, and many things will be revealed that make you say “hmmm, makes sense now”
| 116 |
FemNaziBitch Wed, Dec 4, 2013 6:15:27pm |
re: #87 wrenchwench
They are killing women with their policies. There is a lot they don’t know, or don’t want to know. The loss is women’s lives.
You know, the thing is that I (and many women) would gladly die if we thought our children would be better of. The thing is THEY WON’T.
We need to be here, alive and well.
| 117 |
austin_blue Wed, Dec 4, 2013 6:15:28pm |
| 118 |
Backwoods_Sleuth Wed, Dec 4, 2013 6:18:25pm |
re: #117 austin_blue
What the fuck?
Apparently an electrical fire in an elevator. Arena filled with smoke.
| 119 |
RealityBasedSteve Wed, Dec 4, 2013 6:18:32pm |
120 |
Stanley Sea Wed, Dec 4, 2013 6:19:43pm |
re: #80 FemNaziBitch
This is the best rebuttal to the idea of employers regulating birth, I’ve run across.
That was EXCELLENT.
If the Green family’s conscience really forbids them from meeting their legal obligations under the Affordable Care Act, then they have the option to arrange their lives so as not to incur those obligations. They can choose not to run a two billion dollar corporation.
But if they’re not willing to make those sacrifices-if their ‘conscience’ only compels them so far as they can follow it for free-then they are not conscientious objectors.
| 121 |
austin_blue Wed, Dec 4, 2013 6:20:04pm |
re: #118 Backwoods_Sleuth
Apparently an electrical fire in an elevator. Arena filled with smoke.
Thank the gods for that! Some of the alternatives were obvious.
| 122 |
Lord of the Pies Wed, Dec 4, 2013 6:20:43pm |
124 |
The Ghost of a Flea Wed, Dec 4, 2013 6:24:23pm |
I guess it doesn’t occur to Rush or his buddies that the Pope is South American, where there are a bunch of nations where the wealth distribution—and power distribution—are nigh-on feudal oligarchy. Or that the predominantly-Catholic developing nations of the world are experiencing resource-extraction-based economic booms where the money doesn’t spread around,
Nope, the Pope could only be talking about the US, because there isn’t anywhere else.
It’s hilarious. Like someone mishearing a conversation and jumping in to defend themselves,,,thereby revealing something they thought already revealed.
| 126 |
FemNaziBitch Wed, Dec 4, 2013 6:27:07pm |
re: #100 SteveMcGazi
Not seeing the policies that kill women. I know that perverted beliefs get women killed, especially in the Middle East, what with honor killings and stuff like that. It’s tough line to draw. You have preachers who insist that their religion does not call for the killing of women who do this or that and then you have people who insist that God tells them that women must be punished.
YOU NOT BEEN PAYING ATTENTION TO ME?
see my pages.
You can’t stand by and say you didn’t know, or weren’t informed. In reality, you don’t give a shit. If you did you would look beyond the end of your nose, put 2 and 2 together and realize that statements about “legitimate rape” and not funding VAWA, and ultrasounds required for abortions are killing women.
| 127 |
FemNaziBitch Wed, Dec 4, 2013 6:29:18pm |
128 |
freetoken Wed, Dec 4, 2013 6:29:20pm |
If an ice cube melts and there is no one there to make a gin-and-tonic with it, did it really melt at all?
North Atlantic warming and the retreat of Greenland’s outlet glaciers
Mass loss from the Greenland ice sheet quadrupled over the past two decades, contributing a quarter of the observed global sea-level rise. Increased submarine melting is thought to have triggered the retreat of Greenland’s outlet glaciers, which is partly responsible for the ice loss. However, the chain of events and physical processes remain elusive. Recent evidence suggests that an anomalous inflow of subtropical waters driven by atmospheric changes, multidecadal natural ocean variability and a long-term increase in the North Atlantic’s upper ocean heat content since the 1950s all contributed to a warming of the subpolar North Atlantic. This led, in conjunction with increased runoff, to enhanced submarine glacier melting. Future climate projections raise the potential for continued increases in warming and ice-mass loss, with implications for sea level and climate.
| 129 |
Backwoods_Sleuth Wed, Dec 4, 2013 6:29:28pm |
Night all!
Little Sleepy Kitten pic.twitter.com/lgkx6x1kAE
— Animal Planet (@MeetAnimals) December 4, 2013
| 130 |
lawhawk Wed, Dec 4, 2013 6:30:03pm |
re: #111 Varek Raith
Vasily. I asked for one ping. One ping only. Damnit!
| 131 |
Varek Raith Wed, Dec 4, 2013 6:32:44pm |
re: #130 lawhawk
Vasily. I asked for one ping. >One ping only. Damnit!
Ok, we’ll add another server.
- Chuck Todd School of Tech
| 132 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Dec 4, 2013 6:33:40pm |
re: #130 lawhawk
Vasily. I asked for one ping. >One ping only. Damnit!
Well then, in winter I will live in… Arizona.
| 133 |
freetoken Wed, Dec 4, 2013 6:36:48pm |
Boffins write laboriously about the end of our world… only to discover no one reads their report:
Abrupt Impacts of Climate Change: Anticipating Surprises ( 2013 )
If only they included pictures of scantily clad women, then someone would have noticed.
| 134 |
Lidane Wed, Dec 4, 2013 6:38:40pm |
re: #85 Decatur Deb
Practice changes more easily than doctrine. One possible dramatic change, which would not be at all fundamental, is the married priesthood. There is nothing in RC theology that prevents it, and it might be the only way to staff their parishes. Both priests in my wife’s parish are in their 80s, and years past a normal parish rotation cycle.
Even that’s unlikely, though. The hardliners will look at centuries of Tradition and balk at allowing married priests despite the shortage of newer men entering the holy orders.
I don’t see it happening. It would be a pretty big move, and one that I don’t think the Vatican will make anytime soon. Celibate clergy is a discipline, and it’s one they’ve spent centuries defending.
| 135 |
freetoken Wed, Dec 4, 2013 6:41:44pm |
They should have put this image on the cover… then they could sell the report.
| 136 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Dec 4, 2013 6:43:51pm |
re: #134 Lidane
Yes, it’s not likely to be done, but it’s doable. Other than that, they have only Third World seminaries to export priests to the First. My seminary closed in the 70s for lack of interest, but graduates of it opened another of the same name in Papua.
| 137 |
klys Wed, Dec 4, 2013 6:43:58pm |
re: #78 FemNaziBitch
I was wondering. When I think of cobalt, I think blue.
My guess is because the addition of the cobalt ion into glass results in that beautiful deep blue color we call cobalt blue (for reasons related to crystal field theory). It doesn’t require an awful lot of it either - less than a half a weight percent.
It also speeds spin-spin relaxation times for NMR spectroscopy, so all my glass samples were cobalt-doped.
There’s your random science for the day.
| 138 |
dog philosopher Wed, Dec 4, 2013 6:44:55pm |
re: #29 Lord of the Pies
Making Employers Pay For Birth Control Is ‘Like Making A Jewish Deli Sell Pork
if i stop eating pork i’ll get pregnant and lose my job?
| 139 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Dec 4, 2013 6:46:31pm |
re: #137 klys
My guess is because the addition of the cobalt ion into glass results in that beautiful deep blue color we call cobalt blue (for reasons related to crystal field theory). It doesn’t require an awful lot of it either - less than a half a weight percent.
It also speeds spin-spin relaxation times for NMR spectroscopy, so all my glass samples were cobalt-doped.
There’s your random science for the day.
Here’s your random art: The little girl having her swim suit tugged by the dog in the sun tan commercials is named “Cobie”. Cobalt Blue was the favorite color of her mother, the artist.
| 140 |
FemNaziBitch Wed, Dec 4, 2013 6:47:46pm |
re: #139 Decatur Deb
Here’s your random art: The little girl having her swim suit tugged by the dog in the sun tan commercials is named “Cobie”. Cobalt Blue was the favorite color of her mother, the artist.
Science and Art History all in one thread!
| 141 |
austin_blue Wed, Dec 4, 2013 6:47:50pm |
re: #134 Lidane
Even that’s unlikely, though. The hardliners will look at centuries of Tradition and balk at allowing married priests despite the shortage of newer men entering the holy orders.
I don’t see it happening. It would be a pretty big move, and one that I don’t think the Vatican will make anytime soon. Celibate clergy is a discipline, and it’s one they’ve spent centuries defending.
And there is the whole issue with property. The Vatican will never give up control of its assets.
| 142 |
FemNaziBitch Wed, Dec 4, 2013 6:48:51pm |
re: #141 austin_blue
And there is the whole issue with property. The Vatican will never give up control of its assets.
The whole not worshipping icons theme runs pretty thin these days.
143 |
Feline Fearless Leader Wed, Dec 4, 2013 6:49:18pm |
re: #84 Lord of the Pies
Is there even any COBOL left in the wild? I thought it mostly became extinct after Y2K.
I got a call last week from a recruiter for a FORTRAN project. They want to convert some 30-year-old code to ASP.net.
It’s still around. Sunoco is still running some very old Big Iron and I know that they resurrected some old COBOL-based programs when they sold plants and their one SAP implementation to the Brazilians in 2010.
| 144 |
austin_blue Wed, Dec 4, 2013 6:54:08pm |
re: #142 FemNaziBitch
The whole not worshipping icons theme runs pretty thin these days.
The Vatican is one of the largest landholders and the single largest art holder in the world. How do you divide property among married priests and their spouses?
Ain’t going to happen.
| 145 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Dec 4, 2013 6:56:07pm |
re: #144 austin_blue
The Vatican is one of the largest landholders and the single largest art holder in the world. How do you divide property among married priests and their spouses?
Ain’t going to happen.
The Greek Catholics managed it for a few hundred years, and others like the Maronites. They report to the pope.
Edited to correct: Some of the Eastern Rites still marry, it’s just in the US that they don’t. by local rules.
| 146 |
FemNaziBitch Wed, Dec 4, 2013 6:57:55pm |
re: #144 austin_blue
The Vatican is one of the largest landholders and the single largest art holder in the world. How do you divide property among married priests and their spouses?
Ain’t going to happen.
Yes, one of the reasons priests are forbidden from marrying. Church will not be cheated out of assets.
No, it’s not going to happen—at least not with Vatican compliance.
Still it would be nice if the Men in Rome practiced what they preached —regarding THINGs. People are, they say, more important.
| 147 |
klys Wed, Dec 4, 2013 6:59:25pm |
My sister, for reasons unknown to me, has decided that she likes the Chicago Blackhawks.
Since she also roots for the Devils, this is acceptable. Most of the time.
Anyway, I gift you the Blackhawks’ Holiday Album, AKA, why we don’t pay professional hockey players for their singing ablity.
| 148 |
makeitstop Wed, Dec 4, 2013 7:09:46pm |
re: #147 klys
Anyway, I gift you the Blackhawks’ Holiday Album, AKA, why we don’t pay professional hockey players for their singing ablity.
The Chicago Gay Hockey League doesn’t do too bad in the singing department. Not completely horrible, anyway. And the video is pretty awesome.
| 149 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Dec 4, 2013 7:10:52pm |
re: #144 austin_blue
The Vatican is one of the largest landholders and the single largest art holder in the world. How do you divide property among married priests and their spouses?
Ain’t going to happen.
Not overcomeable problem. Married and unmarried priests don’t get a share of church property, any more than General Motors employees get GM property. The rules have changed in my lifetime. Not suggesting it will change—it probably won’t for structural reasons. However it could change without serious impact on the doctrines.
150 |
Eclectic Cyborg Wed, Dec 4, 2013 7:13:13pm |
OT, but I just got done watching another episode of Almost Human and I really believe Karl Urban is one of the most underrated actors working today. If you are a sci-fi fan and haven’t seen this show I highly recommend it.
| 151 |
FemNaziBitch Wed, Dec 4, 2013 7:14:09pm |
re: #149 Decatur Deb
Not overcomeable problem. Married and unmarried priests don’t get a share of church property, any more than General Motors employees get GM property. The rules have changed in my lifetime. Not suggesting it will change—it probably won’t for structural reasons. However it could change without serious impact on the doctrines.
Who determines what is church property. Do you know how much cash is “given” to priests, checks written to them and gifts given to them. Most Priests just turn it into the bookeeper at their parish, but not all. If there was a wife or child involved … . .
| 152 |
Dark_Falcon Wed, Dec 4, 2013 7:15:52pm |
153 |
William Barnett-Lewis Wed, Dec 4, 2013 7:17:05pm |
re: #149 Decatur Deb
Not overcomeable problem. Married and unmarried priests don’t get a share of church property, any more than General Motors employees get GM property. The rules have changed in my lifetime. Not suggesting it will change—it probably won’t for structural reasons. However it could change without serious impact on the doctrines.
People forget that they’ve only been enforcing this for about 800 years. It’s a relatively recent innovation and could be done away with easily. It’s probably the one thing that has a possibility of happening under Francis.
I still think he’s laying ground work for bigger changes long term, picking up where John XXIII left off. These people are used to thing in terms of generations, unlike most folks.
| 154 |
FemNaziBitch Wed, Dec 4, 2013 7:18:04pm |
re: #153 William Barnett-Lewis
People forget that they’ve only been enforcing this for about 800 years. It’s a relatively recent innovation and could be done away with easily. It’s probably the one thing that has a possibility of happening under Francis.
I still think he’s laying ground work for bigger changes long term, picking up where John XXIII left off. These people are used to thing in terms of generations, unlike most folks.
And he doesn’t seem to foresee women being categorized as human in the next 1000 years.
| 155 |
Dark_Falcon Wed, Dec 4, 2013 7:21:28pm |
re: #154 FemNaziBitch
And he doesn’t seem to foresee women being categorized as human in the next 1000 years.
It’s not that: Catholic doctrine holds the fetus has a soul, and thus to destroy it is murder. That has been part of Catholic doctrine for over 1000 years. It cannot be simply overturned, even if the pope did not believe it (I’m pretty sure he does believe it).
| 156 |
klys Wed, Dec 4, 2013 7:23:04pm |
re: #155 Dark_Falcon
It’s not that: Catholic doctrine holds the fetus has a soul, and thus to destroy it is murder. That has been part of Catholic doctrine for over 1000 years. It cannot be simply overturned, even if the pope did not believe it (I’m pretty sure he does believe it).
I know abortion is a big issue, Dark, but it’s not the only one where the Catholic church holds women to be second-class.
| 157 |
Amory Blaine Wed, Dec 4, 2013 7:23:37pm |
Ha! I just put out a fire here at work that would’ve taken a mortal 6 hours to do within an 1.5 hours.
/pat myself on the back
| 158 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Dec 4, 2013 7:23:48pm |
re: #151 FemNaziBitch
Who determines what is church property. Do you know how much cash is “given” to priests, checks written to them and gifts given to them. Most Priests just turn it into the bookeeper at their parish, but not all. If there was a wife or child involved … . .
Catholic diocese are very businesslike organizations. They maintain a Human Resources division, and sometimes even call it that. (Some of the most horrendous failures in the pedophiia coverups were centered on HR breakdown.) Parish priests work under contract to their bishops, and ‘church’ property is managed through legally incorporated bodies. For good or evil, parishes and diocese are multi-billion dollar enterprises with legal and financial staffs.
It’s a riot to hear the Vatican described as ‘economically illiterate’. They have kept the worlds largest corporation going for a couple thousand years. (That might be their greatest sin. When i took my kids to St. Peter’s, I described it to them as ‘the church that killed Christendom’.)
| 159 |
Lidane Wed, Dec 4, 2013 7:24:00pm |
re: #150 Eclectic Cyborg
OT, but I just got done watching another episode of Almost Human and I really believe Karl Urban is one of the most underrated actors working today. If you are a sci-fi fan and haven’t seen this show I highly recommend it.
I’ve been saying that for the better part of a decade. He’s gotten some really shitty scripts in the past and some of his earlier films are terrible, but with the right material, he’s really good. Almost Human really fits him well. It’s a good role that plays to his strengths.
| 160 |
Ming Wed, Dec 4, 2013 7:25:21pm |
re: #69 Lidane
LOL keep dreaming. He’s not going to change a thing.
Sure, he might get more attention for the church’s social justice doctrine, but he’s not going to make any drastic moves.
I’m an atheist and I’m happy to say that Pope Francis seems like a thoroughly decent and compassionate human being. You may be right that he won’t make any drastic moves. But I think he may change things, simply by being a rare public figure that one can actually ADMIRE (what a concept!).
President Obama is another public figure whom I genuinely admire. Imagine if one could admire the Speaker of the House, many members of Congress, many journalists, etc. It would be a different world.
So I continue to be most interested in what effects the new Pope will have. So far, his influence seems to be a good one, and one validation of that is Limbaugh’s reaction.
| 161 |
Kragar Wed, Dec 4, 2013 7:30:19pm |
re: #159 Lidane
I’ve been saying that for the better part of a decade. He’s gotten some really shitty scripts in the past and some of his earlier films are terrible, but with the right material, he’s really good. Almost Human really fits him well. It’s a good role that plays to his strengths.
I loved the part when he showed the kids his “trick” and his partner, the robot, just looked at him.
“Even I know that was wrong.”
| 162 |
FemNaziBitch Wed, Dec 4, 2013 7:33:53pm |
re: #155 Dark_Falcon
It’s not that: Catholic doctrine holds the fetus has a soul, and thus to destroy it is murder. That has been part of Catholic doctrine for over 1000 years. It cannot be simply overturned, even if the pope did not believe it (I’m pretty sure he does believe it).
IT IS THAT:
And he doesn’t seem to foresee women being categorized as human in the next 1000 years.
Get over the abortion angle —it’s the tip of the iceberg. Women are not going to shut-up and be good if safe-legal abortion becomes the world norm.
| 163 |
FemNaziBitch Wed, Dec 4, 2013 7:39:17pm |
Well, I’ve beat my head against the wall enough for one day.
Back at it tomorrow!
have a great evening all!
| 164 |
RealityBasedSteve Wed, Dec 4, 2013 7:45:54pm |
I’m outta here… And yet another fashion style hopefully gone for good.
RBS
165 |
People For The Ethical Treatment Of Sarah Palin Wed, Dec 4, 2013 7:50:09pm |
re: #160 Ming
This Pope is really a surprise.
| 166 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Dec 4, 2013 7:52:14pm |
re: #165 People For The Ethical Treatment Of Sarah Palin
This Pope is really a surprise.
Everyone was sort of expecting the Spanish Inquisition.
167 |
bratwurst Wed, Dec 4, 2013 7:54:55pm |
Here is an outstanding positive consequence of the difficult economic times we have all experienced in the last several years:
Study: Americans are driving 7.6% fewer miles per year than they did in 2004 http://t.co/3gtuwzYDuB— Washington Post (@washingtonpost) December 5, 2013
| 168 |
Dark_Falcon Wed, Dec 4, 2013 7:58:19pm |
170 |
prairiefire Wed, Dec 4, 2013 8:05:08pm |
re: #166 Decatur Deb
Everyone was sort of expecting the Spanish Inquisition.
When he chose “Francis” as his name, my mom hoped he would be as gentle natured as the original.
171 |
goddamnedfrank Wed, Dec 4, 2013 8:05:53pm |
re: #155 Dark_Falcon
It’s not that: Catholic doctrine holds the fetus has a soul, and thus to destroy it is murder. That has been part of Catholic doctrine for over 1000 years. It cannot be simply overturned, even if the pope did not believe it (I’m pretty sure he does believe it).
Actually it was 425 years ago that the Church stopped distinguishing between quickened and unquickened fetuses. It’s absolutely within the scope of his authority to reverse Sixtus V’s ruling in Effraenatam.
| 172 |
Dark_Falcon Wed, Dec 4, 2013 8:06:39pm |
re: #169 Decatur Deb
That clip hung, other on YT was OK.
Here’s some shiny things by way of apology:
Image: tumblr_mx5pjtzifw1t0wjl7o3_500.jpg
Image: tumblr_mx71c72PlJ1rubnq0o1_500.jpg
Image: tumblr_mwx8eruJDk1qdrno0o1_500.jpg
and some fine engraving:
| 173 |
Dark_Falcon Wed, Dec 4, 2013 8:08:20pm |
re: #170 prairiefire
When he chose “Francis” as his name, my mom hoped he would be as gentle natured as the original.
He’s a Jesuit, not a Franciscan. They tend to be a fiercer bunch.
| 174 |
goddamnedfrank Wed, Dec 4, 2013 8:10:00pm |
I certainly hope that Francis does not believe that an ectopically emplanted blastocyst has a soul, because not only is that idea totally ridiculous, if held as truth it says some fucked up shit about the nature of the Divine in Catholic dogma.
| 175 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Dec 4, 2013 8:10:31pm |
re: #173 Dark_Falcon
He’s a Jesuit, not a Franciscan. They tend to be a fiercer bunch.
Sort of Papal Death Commandos for a couple centuries, there. Of course, they’re the ‘smart ones’ now.
| 176 |
Dark_Falcon Wed, Dec 4, 2013 8:12:01pm |
re: #171 goddamnedfrank
I do hope you’re not made at me over my post, since I wasn’t very detailed specifically because I didn’t want you to think I was making stuff up. Sorry about any confusion.
| 177 |
klys Wed, Dec 4, 2013 8:12:33pm |
re: #166 Decatur Deb
Everyone was sort of expecting the Spanish Inquisition.
Dude, after Palpatine, can you blame us?
| 178 |
Dark_Falcon Wed, Dec 4, 2013 8:15:07pm |
re: #175 Decatur Deb
Sort of Papal Death Commandos for a couple centuries, there. Of course, they’re the ‘smart ones’ now.
I can see the resemblence, since the Death Commandos swear radical obedience to the Capellan Chancellor.
/Battletech reference
179 |
jamesfirecat Wed, Dec 4, 2013 8:19:00pm |
Oh god….
The Blackstone story on The Daily Show….
That is horrible….
To put it simply it is legal for company A to buy a credit default swap thingy that makes them money if company B fails to pay it loans on time.
It is then also legal for company A to offer company B a huge loan provided it pays those loans it put down money company B would be late in saying back in a less than timely manner.
| 180 |
goddamnedfrank Wed, Dec 4, 2013 8:20:49pm |
re: #176 Dark_Falcon
I do hope you’re not made at me over my post, since I wasn’t very detailed specifically because I didn’t want you to think I was making stuff up. Sorry about any confusion.
No worries. The fact is that Francis would be reversing centuries of fairly explicitly articulated doctrine. Nonetheless it is within his purview to reverse it should he choose to, just like he can put an end to clerical celibacy. Likely it is only the consequences he faces from the hardcore factions within the faith that prevent these kinds of practical changes from having already occurred.
| 181 |
Charles Johnson Wed, Dec 4, 2013 8:28:05pm |
In case you were wondering, @DaleyGator is not a huge fan of Charles Johnson http://t.co/5SJJk7xVGE— Robert Stacy McCain (@rsmccain) December 5, 2013
This is truly a crushing blow.
| 182 |
Charles Johnson Wed, Dec 4, 2013 8:30:02pm |
The Daley Gator doesn’t like me? How will I go on?
| 183 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Dec 4, 2013 8:31:00pm |
re: #181 Charles Johnson
It’s close enough to hatemail to justify hitting the tip jar.
| 184 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Dec 4, 2013 8:35:38pm |
re: #180 goddamnedfrank
No worries. The fact is that Francis would be reversing centuries of fairly explicitly articulated doctrine. Nonetheless it is within his purview to reverse it should he choose to, just like he can put an end to clerical celibacy. Likely it is only the consequences he faces from the hardcore factions within the faith that prevent these kinds of practical changes from having already occurred.
You sent me chasing Aquinas on that—ditching him is always a red flag to the conservatives. In this case, it seems they had to ditch him in the last couple hundred years. They did it by applying 19th Cent embryology, saying Aquinas didn’t have the science at hand to support the the ‘human at conception’ position.
| 185 |
goddamnedfrank Wed, Dec 4, 2013 8:39:47pm |
I’d really like Francis to put an end to bishop’s declaring that pro-choice politicians cannot receive communion. Or at the very least strip them of all their rank and authority unless the exact same policy is applied to politicians that support the death penalty.
Catholic social teaching covers a broad range of important issues. But among these the teaching on abortion holds a unique place. Not all moral issues have the same moral weight as abortion and euthanasia. For example, if a Catholic were to disagree with the Holy Father on the application of capital punishment or on the decision to wage war, he would not for that reason be considered unworthy to present himself to receive Holy Communion. While the Church exhorts civil authorities to seek peace, not war, and to exercise discretion and mercy in imposing punishment on criminals, it may still be permissible to take up arms to repel an aggressor or to have recourse to capital punishment. There may be a legitimate diversity of opinion even among Catholics about waging war and applying the death penalty, but not with regard to abortion and euthanasia.
So much self serving horse shit. If the US leadership want to enable conservative hypocrisy for political and financial reasons while hiding a legion of pedophiles they can burn in hell for all I care. The US Church leadership is a cancer that Francis should immediately cut out, instead tumors like Levada are elevated to Cardinal and put in charge of outreach to the Society of Pious X bigoted shits.
| 186 |
goddamnedfrank Wed, Dec 4, 2013 8:45:51pm |
re: #184 Decatur Deb
You sent me chasing Aquinas on that—ditching him is always a red flag to the conservatives. In this case, it seems they had to ditch him in the last couple hundred years. They did it by applying 19th Cent embryology, saying Aquinas didn’t have the science at hand to support the the ‘human at conception’ position.
They do love moving the argument from the meaningful what is a “person” to the totally useless term “human.” I sincerely doubt that Aquinas would be moved by a criteria so deliberately overbroad that it unites a single cell with a self aware complex organism.
| 187 |
Decatur Deb Wed, Dec 4, 2013 8:51:00pm |
re: #186 goddamnedfrank
They do love moving the argument from the meaningful what is a “person” to the totally useless term “human.” I sincerely doubt that Aquinas would be moved by a criteria so deliberately overbroad that it unites a single cell with a self aware complex organism.
He wasn’t. He followed Aristotle in imagining the developing pregnancy going through a vegetative soul, then an animal soul, then finally a human soul. Amusingly, he figured it took males 40 days and females 90 days to reach the ‘human’ level. GGT would love that.
Horseshit, but finely figured horseshit.
| 188 |
Lidane Wed, Dec 4, 2013 8:52:30pm |
South Park tonight was great. Loved how they wrapped up their Game of Thrones trilogy.
| 189 |
moderatelyradicalliberal Wed, Dec 4, 2013 8:52:57pm |
re: #104 FemNaziBitch
Cops: ‘Are You Aware Your Daughter Is With Two Black Men?’
The follow-up.
A commenter there has coined a great new phrase: GQOBBB
Going About One’s Business Being Black.
| 190 |
Kragar Wed, Dec 4, 2013 8:56:16pm |
re: #182 Charles Johnson
The Daley Gator doesn’t like me? How will I go on?
Who the fuck is Daley Gator?
191 |
HoosierHoops Wed, Dec 4, 2013 9:01:11pm |
Hi all you! I’m all packed and ready to move.. One little problem. Tonight 2-3 inches of ice will fall from the sky. I really don’t care cause I’m moving to the North Woods. But 3 inches of ice? Really? In the morning my car will be encased in ice.. Once a year in Oklahoma they have serious ice storms. So here I am waiting for the ice to melt.
And you fuckers think I’m crazy for shooting paint balls at Tom Cruise’s Vacation home at the Lake. OK maybe not but that dude has a huge house that cries out for a paint ball attack!
| 193 |
Lidane Wed, Dec 4, 2013 9:21:20pm |
| 194 |
Amory Blaine Wed, Dec 4, 2013 9:23:44pm |
The e-mail sent out by the Walker aide asking contributors to donate money to Scott Walker’s campaign has the War on Christmas phrase, “Happy Holidays”.instead of “Merry Christmas”.
| 195 |
Amory Blaine Wed, Dec 4, 2013 9:27:48pm |
re: #194 Amory Blaine
The e-mail sent out by the Walker aide asking contributors to donate money to Scott Walker’s campaign has the War on Christmas phrase, “
Happy Holidays” “Holiday Season”, instead of “Merry Christmas”.
Edited
| 196 |
Lidane Wed, Dec 4, 2013 9:28:04pm |
WorldNetDaily links Pope Francis to the KGB; says social justice is a “Soviet communist-led idea” http://t.co/vL63NnanT5— Right Wing Watch (@RightWingWatch) December 4, 2013
| 197 |
People For The Ethical Treatment Of Sarah Palin Wed, Dec 4, 2013 9:30:00pm |
re: #181 Charles Johnson
They are too stupid to realize, there is a difference between being anti-southern and anti Confederate.
| 198 |
AlexRogan Wed, Dec 4, 2013 10:24:16pm |
199 |
Single-handed sailor Wed, Dec 4, 2013 10:32:58pm |
re: #196 Lidane
[Embedded content]
The comments on WND are unusual, a bit of a push back by Catholics.
| 200 |
freetoken Wed, Dec 4, 2013 10:37:14pm |
This one goes out to Duncan the Lesser:
| 201 |
Lidane Wed, Dec 4, 2013 11:52:01pm |
Wheee!
People sing “Dixie” at Florida hearing for Union monument: http://t.co/wk7a5VEVGH— Talking Points Memo (@TPM) December 4, 2013
| 202 |
freetoken Wed, Dec 4, 2013 11:54:59pm |
re: #201 Lidane
[…]
According to The News Service of Florida, many speakers who attended the hearing said they were descendants of soldiers who died at the Battle of Olustee, a Confederate victory which took place on Feb. 20, 1864. The hearing was also attended by a state lawmaker, Florida House Judiciary Chairman Dennis Baxley (R ). Baxley raised concerns that no elected body had reviewed the proposal.
“There is a sacred trust that’s being violated when you go in and change an historic site from the way it was commemorated by those who established (it),” Baxley said.
Baxley suggested he may introduce a bill to get the proposed monument “off the table.”
Re-messaging at its finest.
| 204 |
Kragar Thu, Dec 5, 2013 12:01:02am |
re: #201 Lidane
Wheee!
[Embedded content]
They should have played Marching through Georgia back at them.
| 205 |
freetoken Thu, Dec 5, 2013 1:49:13am |
For all you pagan traditionalists out there:
206 |
Sol Berdinowitz Thu, Dec 5, 2013 2:12:40am |
re: #10 lawhawk
Capitalism isn’t perfect. Capitalism as preached by Rush and the other trickle downers isn’t perfect. It’s a policy that further concentrates wealth. Even Pope John Paul II saw that. Understood that. And criticized it.
Ah, but you fail to see the beauty that the ideologue sees: capitalism/marxism are perfect, any shortcomings we perceive in them are because the people themselves are not worthy of the beauty of the Unregulated Free Markiet/Socialist Utopia.
If only we could purge society of thee imperfect thoughts, we would reach socio-economic Nirvana
| 207 |
freetoken Thu, Dec 5, 2013 2:13:58am |
| 208 |
Justanotherhuman Thu, Dec 5, 2013 2:22:39am |
Hmm. Tell me again how the crude and vile Limpballs (not to mention criminal) manages to stay on the air and Martin Bashir gets the boot?
Meanwhile, we go from 75 deg on Friday (and rain/thunderstorms for the next 5 days) to around mid-30s on Sunday, then a bounce back to around 65 on Monday. Yesterday, it was so foggy you would have thought we were on the moors in England. Same today.
But that’s nothing compared to CO, where they went from 60 one day to 6 the next and all that snow. As someone mentioned earlier, let’s hope CO gets tons of snow for the spring snow melt.
| 209 |
Sol Berdinowitz Thu, Dec 5, 2013 2:31:00am |
re: #208 Justanotherhuman
Hmm. Tell me again how the crude and vile Limpballs (not to mention criminal) manages to stay on the air and Martin Bashir gets the boot?
.
These are business decisions and arise from the same climate that tells us that a CEO should get paid 2,000 times what an hourly worker earns.
| 210 |
Justanotherhuman Thu, Dec 5, 2013 2:37:41am |
Too bad Maine elected a raving idiot, even if it was only 39% of the total vote.
LePage’s efforts to remove child labor barriers to continue in January
AUGUSTA, Maine — Gov. Paul LePage’s goal of making it easier for minors to work will continue in January when the Department of Labor proposes streamlining the work permit process despite previous failed attempts to do so.
“Child labor in Maine has been regulated by state government since the mid-1800s and a key component of those regulations requires school superintendents to issue work permits for school-age children offered a job. Now the Department of Labor has proposed being the first contact for work permits during the summer months. Currently, applications are completed at a person’s local superintendent’s office.
“The initiative falls short of LePage’s stated desire to lower the legal working age to 12, but reprises previous unsuccessful attempts to make it easier for Mainers younger than 16 to earn a paycheck.”
Yeah, just what this country needs—lower the child working age so they can drop out of school earlier because they’re earning a few bucks and more can compete with adults trying to make a living on ever lower wages.
| 211 |
Sol Berdinowitz Thu, Dec 5, 2013 2:41:39am |
re: #210 Justanotherhuman
He is banking on our idyllic image of the kid with the paper route, helping out at the parents store/farm/gas station, etc., instead of seeing it as what it often is: an underpaid, exhausting job that interferes with the child’s ability to learn and study.
| 212 |
Justanotherhuman Thu, Dec 5, 2013 2:46:46am |
re: #211 Sol Berdinowitz
He is banking on our idyllic image of the kid with the paper route, helping out at the parents store/farm/gas station, etc., instead of seeing it as what it often is: an underpaid, exhausting job that interferes with the child’s ability to learn and study.
Yes, and it would apply until a person is 20, so you could conceivably have adults with adult responsibilities trying to get by on $5.25/hr, young parents, for instance, just starting out. It would have a negative effect on more than just very young teens.
This must be, as commenters have noted, ALEC legislation written to get labor costs in the US on the same level as China and developing countries.
| 213 |
Sol Berdinowitz Thu, Dec 5, 2013 2:50:48am |
re: #212 Justanotherhuman
This must be, as commenters have noted, ALEC legislation written to get labor costs in the US on the same level as China and developing countries.
How else can we compete with China unless we drag ourselves down to their level of labor, work safety and environmental regulation?
/ (at least on my part)
| 214 |
Justanotherhuman Thu, Dec 5, 2013 3:17:42am |
re: #213 Sol Berdinowitz
How else can we compete with China unless we drag ourselves down to their level of labor, work safety and environmental regulation?
/ (at least on my part)
I also have a lot of trouble with Paul LePage’s “life story” about leaving home at 11 yrs old and being “homeless” for 2 yrs (although there is nothing about where he went at age 13, only about later, when he managed to get to know Olympia Snowe’s husband and got into college. How does one go from a totally impoverished, brutal childhood to knowing someone with clout and becoming a favored person out of many? If LePage knew those kinds of people, why didn’t he look out for the brothers and sisters he left behind and have his parents investigated and the children removed from such conditions? Paul LePage is all about Paul LePage, a very well-honed opportunist looking out for himself and no one else.
This story is related by a younger brother who would have only been 4 yrs old when LePage allegedly left home at age 11 (LePage was the oldest son), so no, they didn’t “grow up together”). There were 18 kids in that family, so most of those kids were too young, or were born after LePage left home, to know much about his life except what he himself told them. This is how people create legends about themselves.
| 215 |
Rev_Arthur_Belling Thu, Dec 5, 2013 4:14:39am |
Dean Baker writes about the latest front in the class wars: Pension Theft: Class War Goes to the Next Stage
The specifics of the situations are very different, but the outcome is the same. Public employees who spent decades working for the government are not going to get the pensions that were part of their pay package. In both cases we have governments claiming poverty, and therefore the workers are just out of luck.
(snip)
The other item generally missing from the coverage is that these pensions are part of workers’ pay. Controlling for education and experience, public-sector pay is somewhat lower than the pay of private-sector workers. The more generous pension and health care benefits that most public-sector workers enjoy are offsetting lower wages.
The pensions are not gifts bestowed by the government on workers; they are part of workers’ pay. When the city of Detroit or state of Illinois cut workers’ pensions, they are in effect saying that they are not going to pay workers for the work they did.
(snip)
The disturbing aspect about the Illinois situation is that the underfunding of the pension was a deliberate choice. For years the governor and Legislature approved budgets that did not make the required contribution to the pensions. (The city of Chicago, under Mayor Richard M. Daley, did the same thing.) This was a deliberate shafting of workers in which most of the state’s leading political figures acquiesced.
I’m among those who will get shafted by the state of Illinois thanks to the lege not paying into the fund for the past 30 years, unless the state supreme court overrules this latest pension theft “reform.”
And apparently, there are moves to do similar “reform” to California public pensions. And Illinois and California are governed by Democratic executives and legislatures!
It’s maddening and disheartening to be constantly under attack for expecting to be paid what you are owed.
| 216 |
Lord of the Pies Thu, Dec 5, 2013 4:24:25am |
re: #188 Lidane
South Park tonight was great. Loved how they wrapped up their Game of Thrones trilogy.
OMG Bill Gates beating the shit out of Sony CEO.
| 217 |
Sol Berdinowitz Thu, Dec 5, 2013 4:52:33am |
re: #215 Rev_Arthur_Belling
It’s maddening and disheartening to be constantly under attack for expecting to be paid what you are owed.
You cut your sweetheart bonus deal, arrange your golden parachute and leave the company a shambles but with several millions in your Caymans account.
That is the modern American success story, anything else is for losers.
| 218 |
Lord of the Pies Thu, Dec 5, 2013 5:06:26am |
GOP logic #tcot #TEAnuts #UniteBlue #libcrib #stoprush pic.twitter.com/FjJcIai1q5— David Valenzuela (@Yecora51) December 5, 2013
| 219 |
Lord of the Pies Thu, Dec 5, 2013 5:13:05am |
HURR HURR
@wikileaks Denmark & Norway are both incredibly subservient to the US, but neither is as beholden as Sweden.— Glenn Greenwald (@ggreenwald) December 5, 2013
| 220 |
Backwoods_Sleuth Thu, Dec 5, 2013 5:13:43am |
good morning! I think the overloads would like these:
Cat Hammock pic.twitter.com/O1z62yuwRX
— Creative Ideas (@socreativepics) November 29, 2013
| 221 |
Backwoods_Sleuth Thu, Dec 5, 2013 5:16:15am |
heh….
Lot's of love on fb & twitter allready for our billboard, thanku @chrisemmott for helping! @thehubchurch @Blueharts pic.twitter.com/atNYwoZM7C
— Dan Drew (@blairdrew) December 4, 2013
| 222 |
Backwoods_Sleuth Thu, Dec 5, 2013 5:21:10am |
Meanwhile, in Scotland, the weather isn’t so great.
Wow sea foam taking over Aberdeen #scotstorm #hurricanebawbag pic.twitter.com/FTWXgnk9im
— Stephen Quinn (@radiosquinn) December 5, 2013
| 223 |
Feline Fearless Leader Thu, Dec 5, 2013 5:32:16am |
re: #220 Backwoods_Sleuth
good morning! I think the overloads would like these:
Kitties Feline Overlords might be getting something like this for their Xmas present solstice homage.
| 224 |
Backwoods_Sleuth Thu, Dec 5, 2013 5:33:42am |
re: #223 Feline Fearless Leader
KittiesFeline Overlords might be getting something like this for theirXmas presentsolstice homage.
nice!
| 225 |
Lidane Thu, Dec 5, 2013 5:35:46am |
re: #216 Lord of the Pies
OMG Bill Gates beating the shit out of Sony CEO.
I loved the old guy who kept ratting out Cartman’s schemes in the garden from his window. Haha.
Also, I apologize in advance, but this made me laugh:
| 226 |
Backwoods_Sleuth Thu, Dec 5, 2013 5:36:32am |
Pope Francis sets up a Vatican committee to fight Catholic Church child abuse http://t.co/9QZ0392Ckr
— BBC Breaking News (@BBCBreaking) December 5, 2013
227 |
Stoatly Thu, Dec 5, 2013 5:38:41am |
re: #222 Backwoods_Sleuth
All trains cancelled in Scotland
Bit breezy here in East England too - dark warnings about a storm surge coming on the news, hopefully exaggerated (there was a terrible storm surge in this area about 50 years ago, glad I’m on high ground)
| 228 |
Backwoods_Sleuth Thu, Dec 5, 2013 5:41:29am |
re: #227 Stoatly
All trains cancelled in Scotland
Bit breezy here in East England too - dark warnings about a storm surge coming on the news, hopefully exaggerated (there was a terrible storm surge in this area about 50 years ago, glad I’m on high ground)
I haven’t heard from any of my friends in Scotland yet, just friends in Yorkshire. The storm looks fierce.
229 |
Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut Thu, Dec 5, 2013 5:42:50am |
re: #226 Backwoods_Sleuth
The announcement, by the archbishop of Boston, follows a meeting between the Pope and his eight cardinal advisers.
It comes days after the Vatican refused a UN request for information on alleged abuse by priests, nuns or monks.
| 230 |
Lidane Thu, Dec 5, 2013 5:43:13am |
This is amazing. Paulie Walnuts as Bert and Bobby Bacala as Ernie:
| 231 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, Dec 5, 2013 5:45:37am |
re: #223 Feline Fearless Leader
KittiesFeline Overlords might be getting something like this for theirXmas presentsolstice homage.
That’s a better fit, since it allows the Feline Overlords the advantage of height. Overlords need to be able to look down on their minions, you know.
| 232 |
Justanotherhuman Thu, Dec 5, 2013 5:55:19am |
re: #222 Backwoods_Sleuth
Meanwhile, in Scotland, the weather isn’t so great.
[Embedded content]
Speaking of Scotland, I dreamed I was over there and went to see Jack Bruce. I went right up to him and told him to kiss me. Heh. Note: We both looked a bit younger.
All the rockers of my generation are getting old. John Mayall was 80 on Nov 29, and he’s still touring; I didn’t realize when I was listening to his Bluesbreakers back in the mid-60s that I was listening to rock history in the making. : ) johnmayall.com
If you live on the West Coast, you can see 80 yr old Mayall still blowing.
| 233 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, Dec 5, 2013 5:56:24am |
re: #215 Rev_Arthur_Belling
Dean Baker writes about the latest front in the class wars: Pension Theft: Class War Goes to the Next Stage
I’m among those who will get shafted by the state of Illinois thanks to the lege not paying into the fund for the past 30 years, unless the state supreme court overrules this latest pension
theft“reform.”And apparently, there are moves to do similar “reform” to California public pensions. And Illinois and California are governed by Democratic executives and legislatures!
It’s maddening and disheartening to be constantly under attack for expecting to be paid what you are owed.
Illinois does not have the money to pay you all you were promised and there is no way for the government to get it from taxes, because the levels required would drive businesses out of the state.
You’re getting a raw deal because the legislature didn’t do its job right, but their failure to fund the pension system properly cannot be undone. I am truly sorry you’re going to be hurt by these reforms, but it is the only way to keep Illinois solvent.
| 234 |
Justanotherhuman Thu, Dec 5, 2013 6:00:04am |
re: #233 Dark_Falcon
Illinois does not have the money to pay you all you were promised and there is no way for the government to get it from taxes, because the levels required would drive businesses out of the state.
You’re getting a raw deal because the legislature didn’t do its job right, but their failure to fund the pension system properly >cannot be undone. I am truly sorry you’re going to be hurt by these reforms, but it is the only way to keep Illinois solvent.
That’s only part of the problem.
“Among those who deserve special vilification in this story are the bond-rating agencies (yes, the folks who rated all those subprime mortgage-backed securities as Aaa). During the years of the stock bubble in the 1990s, they analyzed pension funds using the assumption that the bubble would persist indefinitely. This meant that state and local governments had to make little or no contribution to their pensions.
“Unfortunately, it was a habit that stuck. Even after the bubble burst, they continued to contribute little or nothing to their pensions.
“So now Illinois, Chicago and several other state and local governments have badly under-funded pensions. It would seem that they would have an obligation to raise the revenue needed to pay workers, after all this money they are owed.
“But in 21st century America, contracts and the rule of law apparently don’t mean anything, at least not if the people at the other end are ordinary workers. So, rather than inconvenience all those rich folks at the Chicago Board of Trade or other highly successful businesses with a larger tax bill, the plan is to stiff the firefighters, the schoolteachers, and the people who collected garbage for 30 years.”
| 235 |
Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut Thu, Dec 5, 2013 6:06:52am |
re: #233 Dark_Falcon
Illinois does not have the money to pay you all you were promised and there is no way for the government to get it from taxes, because the levels required would drive businesses out of the state.
Can you at all prove this contention in the least or is this just your ideological position again?
I am truly sorry you’re going to be hurt by these reforms, but it is the only way to keep Illinois solvent.
It’s literally stealing money from working people who earned it.
| 236 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, Dec 5, 2013 6:08:58am |
re: #234 Justanotherhuman
That’s only part of the problem.
“Among those who deserve special vilification in this story are the bond-rating agencies (yes, the folks who rated all those subprime mortgage-backed securities as Aaa). During the years of the stock bubble in the 1990s, they analyzed pension funds using the assumption that the bubble would persist indefinitely. This meant that state and local governments had to make little or no contribution to their pensions.
“Unfortunately, it was a habit that stuck. Even after the bubble burst, they continued to contribute little or nothing to their pensions.
“So now Illinois, Chicago and several other state and local governments have badly under-funded pensions. It would seem that they would have an obligation to raise the revenue needed to pay workers, after all this money they are owed.
“But in 21st century America, contracts and the rule of law apparently don’t mean anything, at least not if the people at the other end are ordinary workers. So, rather than inconvenience all those rich folks at the Chicago Board of Trade or other highly successful businesses with a larger tax bill, the plan is to stiff the firefighters, the schoolteachers, and the people who collected garbage for 30 years.”
Those businesses and rich folks will not stay in Illinois if taxes are raised. Their money has now given them greater mobility than most people and that gives them the whip hand on this issue.
Edited.
| 237 |
William Barnett-Lewis Thu, Dec 5, 2013 6:09:07am |
re: #233 Dark_Falcon
Sure we can. Put all taxes back at what they were Dec 31, 1960 & cut the DOD budget by at least 33%. Then we’ll have the money as a nation to fulfill our obligations and repair our crumbling infrastructure. But no politician in America has the balls to do what is right rather than what is expedient.
| 238 |
Sol Berdinowitz Thu, Dec 5, 2013 6:09:11am |
re: #235 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut
Illinois does not have the money to pay you all you were promised and there is no way for the government to get it from taxes, because the levels required would drive businesses out of the state.
Can you at all prove this contention in the least or is this just your ideological position again?
It’s literally stealing money from working people who earned it.
Job Creators and all: tax ‘em and they flee…
| 239 |
Lidane Thu, Dec 5, 2013 6:09:53am |
Here are 11 imaginary Republican enemies that could give Bigfoot a run for its money http://t.co/JxWtGqqYSM— Huffington Post (@HuffingtonPost) December 5, 2013
| 240 |
Ian G. Thu, Dec 5, 2013 6:10:47am |
re: #26 blueraven
Really Rush?
“Why was 4 dead in Benghazi not a news item”?
Not a news item? BENGHAZI!!!?
Fuck, has he been in a coma for the past year?
Hmm…..”4 dead in Benghazi”? How come Ted Nugent hasn’t done a cover of the Neil Young classic updated with the refrain being “4 dead in Benghazi”?
| 241 |
Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut Thu, Dec 5, 2013 6:11:20am |
re: #236 Dark_Falcon
Those businesses and rich folks will not stay in Illinois if taxes are raised. Their money has now given them greater mobility than most people and that gives them the whip on this issue.
Support your contention. Also, do you realize you’re basically saying that the system is fucked because the rich wield too much political power?
| 242 |
Lord of the Pies Thu, Dec 5, 2013 6:11:47am |
re: #236 Dark_Falcon
Those businesses and rich folks will not stay in Illinois if taxes are raised. Their money has now given them greater mobility than most people and that gives them the whip on this issue.
How are states supposed to raise revenue if they are not allowed to tax the rich?
Also: how are the very rich harmed by raising taxes to what they were when Reagan was President?
| 243 |
Sol Berdinowitz Thu, Dec 5, 2013 6:13:19am |
re: #240 Ian G.
Hmm…..”4 dead in Benghazi”? How come Ted Nugent hasn’t done a cover of the Neil Young classic updated with the refrain being “4 dead in Benghazi”?
I thought he was already dead or in jail…or if not, he is a self-aggrandizing, braggadocious ass.
| 244 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, Dec 5, 2013 6:13:46am |
re: #241 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut
Support your contention. Also, do you realize you’re basically saying that the system is fucked because the rich wield too much political power?
Chicago already has lost Aeon’s corporate HQ, Lewis Machine and Tool is looking to move out of state, Archer Daniels Midland wants an incentive package to stay in Decatur.
| 245 |
Lord of the Pies Thu, Dec 5, 2013 6:14:35am |
This person just followed me on Teh Twitters:
Kristin Baker followed you
kristinbaker00’s avatar
Kristin Baker
@kristinbaker00
more certain than ever that we need the FAIR TAX, I am a Christian Republican,single mom, I love politics, music, and football.
Which is, basically HURR HURR TEH POORS HAVE TO PAY MOAR TAX!!!!!!!
| 246 |
Lord of the Pies Thu, Dec 5, 2013 6:15:36am |
How the FUCK is a “Fair Tax” ON TEH POORS going to raise revenue?
| 247 |
Lidane Thu, Dec 5, 2013 6:16:41am |
re: #246 Lord of the Pies
How the FUCK is a “Fair Tax” ON TEH POORS going to raise revenue?
By making Republican Jesus happy. That’s how.
| 248 |
Lord of the Pies Thu, Dec 5, 2013 6:17:46am |
HURR HURR
Income Tax IS NOT SLAVERY you dumbfuck. Read Thistlewood’s diary.
“@TPO_Hisself 2014: Americans Celebrate Last Year As Free People http://t.co/V8sApUsB7z” Everyone needs to read this. #uniteblue— IncometaxISslavery (@BlindManMark) December 5, 2013
| 249 |
Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut Thu, Dec 5, 2013 6:18:05am |
re: #244 Dark_Falcon
Chicago already has lost Aeon’s corporate HQ, Lewis Machine and Tool is looking to move out of state, Archer Daniels Midland wants an incentive package to stay in Decatur.
Those are anecdotes. I can likewise name a ton of big companies that stay in California, and a ton of super-rich people who stay in California, as counter-anecdotes. Do you have any actual data to support your position, or are you simply being ideological?
| 250 |
Sol Berdinowitz Thu, Dec 5, 2013 6:20:55am |
re: #249 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut
Those are anecdotes. I can likewise name a ton of big companies that stay in California, and a ton of super-rich people who stay in California, as counter-anecdotes. Do you have any actual data to support your position, or are you simply being ideological?
Job Creators act base decisions entirely on maximizing short-term profits. That is what the system is set up to reward.
| 251 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, Dec 5, 2013 6:21:41am |
re: #249 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut
Those are anecdotes. I can likewise name a ton of big companies that stay in California, and a ton of super-rich people who stay in California, as counter-anecdotes. Do you have any actual data to support your position, or are you simply being ideological?
Those are at existing levels of taxation. Obdi. Taxes would have to be greatly raised to pay the pension deficit.
Can you not see how large tax increases would harm the business climate?
| 252 |
Lord of the Pies Thu, Dec 5, 2013 6:22:13am |
re: #251 Dark_Falcon
Those are at existing levels of taxation. Obdi. Taxes would have to be greatly raised to pay the pension deficit.
Can you not see how large tax increases would harm the business climate?
But “Fair Tax” is a good idea?
| 253 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, Dec 5, 2013 6:23:14am |
re: #249 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut
Those are anecdotes. I can likewise name a ton of big companies that stay in California, and a ton of super-rich people who stay in California, as counter-anecdotes. Do you have any actual data to support your position, or are you simply being ideological?
Also, sadd to say, Illinois isn’t California: We don’t have the Golden State’s more fortunate climate or its cachet.
Post edited. thank you, Sagehen.
| 254 |
Feline Fearless Leader Thu, Dec 5, 2013 6:23:42am |
re: #238 Sol Berdinowitz
Illinois does not have the money to pay you all you were promised and there is no way for the government to get it from taxes, because the levels required would drive businesses out of the state.
Job Creators and all: tax ‘em and they flee…
The unlying principle and integrity of the situation is very much “I’ve got mine. Fuck you while I run to another state or country to sucker them into giving me a tax break for settling there.”
Which book of the Bible is that one from?
//
| 255 |
Justanotherhuman Thu, Dec 5, 2013 6:23:45am |
re: #236 Dark_Falcon
Those businesses and rich folks will not stay in Illinois if taxes are raised. Their money has now given them greater mobility than most people and that gives them the whip on this issue.
“The whip? The whip?”
So you’re all for slavery?
| 256 |
Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut Thu, Dec 5, 2013 6:24:49am |
re: #251 Dark_Falcon
Those are at existing levels of taxation. Obdi. Taxes would have to be greatly raised to pay the pension deficit.
Can you not see how large tax increases would harm the business climate?
You’re dodging the question. You don’t actually have any data to support your position: you’ve reverted to default GOP mode, and are just repeating “Taxes bad, businesses flee, we must all race to the bottom!”
Again, do you understand that, if we were to accept your premise—that the wealthy have so much political power they can stop tax raises in order to pay for things that are legally and ethically necessary—that you are saying that we have a system where the wealthy have far too much political power?
| 257 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, Dec 5, 2013 6:24:52am |
re: #252 Lord of the Pies
But “Fair Tax” is a good idea?
I haven’t been talking about that. That was something somebody else said on Twitter. I’d have to know more about what they consider a ‘fair tax’ before I could give an opinion on it.
| 258 |
Lord of the Pies Thu, Dec 5, 2013 6:25:40am |
re: #257 Dark_Falcon
I haven’t been talking about that. That was something somebody else said on Twitter. I’d have to know more about what they consider a ‘fair tax’ before I could give an opinion on it.
“Fair Tax” = ABOLISH TEH INCOME TAX AND REPLACE WITH A NATIONAL SALES TAX!!!!!!!!
| 259 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, Dec 5, 2013 6:26:32am |
re: #255 Justanotherhuman
“The whip? The whip?”
So you’re all for slavery?
re: #236 Dark_Falcon
Those businesses and rich folks will not stay in Illinois if taxes are raised. Their money has now given them greater mobility than most people and that gives them the whip >hand on this issue.
Edited.
Sorry about the missing word. “Whip hand” is a figure of speech.
| 260 |
Lord of the Pies Thu, Dec 5, 2013 6:27:24am |
re: #259 Dark_Falcon
Sorry about the missing word. “Whip hand” is a figure of speech.
Think about where it came from.
| 261 |
Feline Fearless Leader Thu, Dec 5, 2013 6:28:24am |
re: #249 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut
Those are anecdotes. I can likewise name a ton of big companies that stay in California, and a ton of super-rich people who stay in California, as counter-anecdotes. Do you have any actual data to support your position, or are you simply being ideological?
It’s a variation on the standard extortion threat issued by sports team owners. “Give me a tax break or new stadium at taxpayer expense, or I’ll take my franchise to another city that is just dying to give me such a break.”
And the cities and states fall for it time and time again despite the studies indicating that the sports teams are not that valuable to the local economy and the deals end up being net revenue losers.
| 262 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, Dec 5, 2013 6:29:50am |
re: #258 Lord of the Pies
“Fair Tax” = ABOLISH TEH INCOME TAX AND REPLACE WITH A NATIONAL SALES TAX!!!!!!!!
No I do not favor that option, not the least of which because of that same mobility I spoke of earlier: Rich people could use their money’s mobility to evade paying such a tax. Such a national sales would likely end up unfair, and so does not enjoy my support.
Is my answer satisfactory?
| 263 |
Backwoods_Sleuth Thu, Dec 5, 2013 6:32:31am |
I suppose Fox will be running with this today:
JUST IN: American teacher shot & killed in Benghazi, Libya while jogging, taught at The International School there - http://t.co/SPjVI6OqOa
— PzFeed Top News (@PzFeed) December 5, 2013
| 264 |
Justanotherhuman Thu, Dec 5, 2013 6:32:41am |
re: #259 Dark_Falcon
Sorry about the missing word. “Whip hand” is a figure of speech.
I know what the modern version of “whip hand” is and it’s primarily used in horse racing now. But I also know it as that figure of speech which means the “upper hand” or superior position, as well.
Did you know about this 1951 movie, in which Nazis and Hitler were the original villains? Howard Hughes changed it to make it an anti-communist film, however, and it lost $225K, not a small sum in those days.
265 |
darthstar Thu, Dec 5, 2013 6:33:56am |
re: #259 Dark_Falcon
Sorry about the missing word. “Whip hand” is a figure of speech.
“upper hand” maybe? “whip hand” still connotes slavery, or at best a belief that the boss (“rich folks” in your words) shall not be questioned or lashes shall be given. Do you really aspire to be one of them or do you defend them because you were raised to believe that you were born in place and shouldn’t question the status quo?
BTW, companies won’t leave because of taxes. They just use that threat to enjoy avoiding paying them.
Mornin’
| 266 |
Stoatly Thu, Dec 5, 2013 6:35:48am |
This pictures shows why we have closed the network - to keep you all safe. #safetyfirst pic.twitter.com/CuoGlnfWg7— Network Rail Scot (@NetworkRailSCOT) December 5, 2013
From the Daily Mirror:
“Petra” wrote on Twitter: “Dear Santa, a child in the Bishopbriggs area will need a new trampoline as theirs has blown away & been run over by a train. Thank you.”
Lisa Wilkinson, whose friend was on the train, said: “Gary just text me to say his train to Edinburgh stopped after there was a massive clunk. It hit a trampoline! I’m still laughing.”
And Colin McCredie joked: “2012 was #hurricanebawbag and now 2013 is #hurricanetrampoline.”
the term bawbag being a Scots word for “scrotum”, which is also slang for an annoying or irritating person.[4][5][6]
Rob Gibson was the first politician to use the term on national television
267 |
Political Atheist Thu, Dec 5, 2013 6:39:36am |
re: #253 Dark_Falcon
Taxes and regulations certainly were a big factor in the location choice of the refinery I work for. LA was higher taxation, and excessively tight regulations for that facility. Ontario in San Bernardino county (at the time) had a pro industry policy, from taxes to local regulations.
| 268 |
Sol Berdinowitz Thu, Dec 5, 2013 6:40:01am |
re: #259 Dark_Falcon
Sorry about the missing word. “Whip hand” is a figure of speech.
Remember Enoch Powell’s famous “Rivers of Blood” speech: “in 15 or 20 years’ time the black man will have the whip hand over the white man.”
Newt Gingrich leans heavily on this fellow’s rhetorical style.
| 269 |
lawhawk Thu, Dec 5, 2013 6:40:39am |
re: #244 Dark_Falcon
Boeing moved to Chicago.
States and cities will push tax incentives - basically handouts to businesses to come and stay. They’re competing with each other to get these companies to stick around, and all they end up doing is eroding the tax bases of the cities and states. Even the legislatures in many states are realizing that these kinds of economic development incentives/credits have to be reformed. They’ve moved to make sure that the businesses are creating long term jobs with clawback provisions if they fail to deliver.
Heck, even Newark is poaching jobs from nearby towns and New York City. Panasonic moved its headquarters from Secaucus. Prudential moved essentially across the street to a new building, and the city/state gave them a huge tax break to do so - to avoid them moving elsewhere, even though there was little chance of that happening.
| 270 |
Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut Thu, Dec 5, 2013 6:41:58am |
re: #267 Political Atheist
Taxes and regulations certainly were a big factor in the location choice of the refinery I work for. LA was higher taxation, and excessively tight regulations for that facility. Ontario in San Bernardino county (at the time) had a pro industry policy, from taxes to local regulations.
What would be great is, if instead of anecdotes, we got data.
| 271 |
Ian G. Thu, Dec 5, 2013 6:45:29am |
Obviously, this is a trick by the Kenyan Marxist usurper to lull us into complacency before he destroys the economy with hyperinflation and herds us into FEMA death camps.
272 |
sagehen Thu, Dec 5, 2013 6:46:36am |
re: #253 Dark_Falcon
Also, sadd to say, Illinois isn’t California: We don’t have the Golden State’s more fortunate climate or its ‘cache’ (I hope I used that last word right).
cache (one syllable, pronounced “cash”) — a set-aside bit of something, probably hidden
cachét — the word I think you were aiming for, two syllables, accent on the second, pronounced “cash-ay”)
| 273 |
Political Atheist Thu, Dec 5, 2013 6:47:34am |
re: #270 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut
What would be great is, if instead of anecdotes, we got data.
Unless you disbelieve me that is data. Just a small set. The raw contention that taxes & regs have little to nothing to do with location decisions for business is ideological.
| 274 |
lawhawk Thu, Dec 5, 2013 6:48:53am |
re: #262 Dark_Falcon
No I do not favor that option, not the least of which because of that same mobility I spoke of earlier: Rich people could use their money’s mobility to evade paying such a tax. Such a national sales would likely end up unfair, and so does not enjoy my support.
Is my answer satisfactory?
A national sales tax would mean that the rich couldn’t evade the tax because it would apply to everyone and all purchases (as defined within the tax base). The only way to evade the tax is if people move out of the country altogether, but that’s simply not happening.* The problem is that a national sales tax would be highly regressive and affect the poor to a much greater degree than the rich. In order to bring the rate down significantly, it would mean having to tax services that are currently exempt from tax, and may end up working like a VAT as in many European countries.
* There’s statistical evidence that shows that the rich aren’t fleeing high tax states for lower tax states. The high tax states, like NY, CA, CT, and NJ enjoy high percentages of millionaires precisely because these are where the money is being made - whether it’s Wall Street or Hollywood, and that kind of money creation can’t be transferred elsewhere. A much greater reason that the rich move from one state to another? Divorce - and the ability to take advantage of the matrimonial laws of different states.
Also, much is made of how people flee high tax states to low tax states, but they all ignore that weather/climate has something to do with it too. Moving to Florida/California/Texas/Arizona makes sense because it’s warmer and people just get tired of living in the snowbelts (where many high-tax states are located). Yet, California is a destination for many, even though it’s a high tax state - and that too has to do with climate.
| 275 |
Ian G. Thu, Dec 5, 2013 6:49:21am |
re: #270 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut
What would be great is, if instead of anecdotes, we got data.
Nah, let’s play the anecdote game.
How come Cleveland, in low-tax Ohio, is so much more of a basket case than Pittsburgh, in high-tax Pennsylvania, especially when there’s so much similarity between the two cities (industrial history, size, higher ed establishments, climate, etc.)?
Maybe, contra what wingers would have you believe, there’s more to how well a metro area is doing economically than just tax rates?
| 276 |
Lord of the Pies Thu, Dec 5, 2013 6:51:22am |
How #Detroit went broke: The answers may surprise you—& don't blame Liberals http://t.co/kMKv9PdyXv via @freep #UniteBlue #lnyhbt— Vicious Babushka (@viciousbabushka) December 5, 2013
| 277 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, Dec 5, 2013 6:51:46am |
re: #272 sagehen
cache (one syllable, pronounced “cash”) — a set-aside bit of something, probably hidden
cachét — the word I think you were aiming for, two syllables, accent on the second, pronounced “cash-ay”)
re: #253 Dark_Falcon
Also, sadd to say, Illinois isn’t California: We don’t have the Golden State’s more fortunate climate or its cachet.
Post edited. thank you, Sagehen.
| 278 |
darthstar Thu, Dec 5, 2013 6:52:17am |
Awesome customer service chat with Amazon.
| 279 |
Eclectic Cyborg Thu, Dec 5, 2013 6:52:21am |
re: #263 Backwoods_Sleuth
I suppose Fox will be running with this today:
[Embedded content]
Why didn’t Obama do anything?!?!?!?!?!
| 280 |
Ian G. Thu, Dec 5, 2013 6:53:36am |
Also, why is Rochester, NY doing such a good job of economically weathering the demise of Kodak and the downsizing of Xerox, while 60 miles down the road, in the same state, with similar populations, and the same climate, Buffalo is a mess?
| 281 |
darthstar Thu, Dec 5, 2013 6:55:00am |
re: #253 Dark_Falcon
Also, sadd to say, Illinois isn’t California: We don’t have the Golden State’s more fortunate climate or its ‘cache’ (I hope I used that last word right).
I’m sure with our Democratic super-majorities, the climate here in California will eventually look for a haven such as Illinois in December.
| 282 |
Lord of the Pies Thu, Dec 5, 2013 6:55:01am |
re: #278 darthstar
Awesome customer service chat with Amazon.
That wins Teh Internets.
I just have to share it with the webchat service engineers here.
| 283 |
sagehen Thu, Dec 5, 2013 6:55:18am |
re: #267 Political Atheist
Taxes and regulations certainly were a big factor in the location choice of the refinery I work for. LA was higher taxation, and excessively tight regulations for that facility. Ontario in San Bernardino county (at the time) had a pro industry policy, from taxes to local regulations.
The wind-patterns/edge of the inversion layer means that refinery emissions in LA would ruin millions of people’s air; those same emissions in Ontario only ruin a couple hundred thousand people’s air (all of whom would have it just as ruined for them if it came from LA anyhow).
also — the chance of a spill at the beach, vs a spill in Ontario… which one will do more harm to Cali’s lucrative tourism industry?
These regulations happen for a reason, I wouldn’t call them “excessively tight”.
| 284 |
Feline Fearless Leader Thu, Dec 5, 2013 6:56:03am |
re: #269 lawhawk
Boeing moved to Chicago.
States and cities will push tax incentives - basically handouts to businesses to come and stay. They’re competing with each other to get these companies to stick around, and all they end up doing is eroding the tax bases of the cities and states. Even the legislatures in many states are realizing that these kinds of economic development incentives/credits have to be reformed. They’ve moved to make sure that the businesses are creating long term jobs with clawback provisions if they fail to deliver.
Heck, even Newark is poaching jobs from nearby towns and New York City. Panasonic moved its headquarters from Secaucus. Prudential moved essentially across the street to a new building, and the city/state gave them a huge tax break to do so - to avoid them moving elsewhere, even though there was little chance of that happening.
The other thing to watch for in terms of this “deals” is where the local politicians are *really* benefiting; e.g. do they have connections and such with the companies that will rake in the short-term profits in the construction and road work associated with a company moving into town (or a new stadium deal.)
And note that Atlanta did not give the Braves ownership a cushy deal - so they moved just outside the city. The flip-side is having friends in Minnesota watching the Vikings ownership getting a sweetheart deal despite fairly heavy citizenry opposition.
And Pittsburgh did stadium deals on county bonds back in the late 90s despite serious opposition and the failure of a referrendum on the initial funding deal that also included an increased sales tax (1/2% for ten counties. After the defeat the county commissioners and the mayor simply rolled out “Plan B” and stuck the taxpayers anyways.
| 285 |
Eclectic Cyborg Thu, Dec 5, 2013 6:56:22am |
You know I used to think banks were about the most evil businesses around…but I think for-profit colleges may have them beat.
| 286 |
Sol Berdinowitz Thu, Dec 5, 2013 6:57:35am |
re: #285 Eclectic Cyborg
You know I used to think banks were about the most evil businesses around…but I think for-profit colleges may have them beat.
They have a subsidized source of income and almost no accountability for the quality of services they provide for the money…better than banks in that respect.
| 287 |
Justanotherhuman Thu, Dec 5, 2013 6:58:19am |
Over the years, NC has offered plenty of incentives to businesses wanting to relocate here. Often, they simply don’t pan out for the workers themselves (many companies actually lure existing workers to the State, paying their own incentives for employees to do so). Not just tax incentives, but training of workers at state supported schools, local tax breaks and infrastructure paid for locally, like water and sewer lines, roads, etc, all of which are paid by taxpayers, sometimes for fewer jobs than promised or a short stay in the State.
“While the requirements of companies in different industries differ considerably, the following factors headed the list: labor force, transportation, quality of life, business climate and education. For the high value-added industries such as information technology and biotechnology, we can expect the importance of labor force factors, quality of life and proximity to educational institutions to be even more critical than average, given these industries’ reliance on skilled labor and collaboration with research institutions. Even if incentives come into consideration, this is at the final stage of the selection process and even then they can be trumped by other factors, as the Flextronics experience suggests. Thus, corporate incentives have been shown to be ineffectual in their avowed purpose - job creation and economic growth.
“Another reason why grants are inefficient is because states usually fall prey to the “winner’s curse,” sometimes paying an unacceptable price for the jobs ultimately created. They often fail to realize that companies might locate their business only for a small portion of the incentives, as did Flextronics. Also, the practice might be abused by companies. For example, they might withhold their decision to locate in a state until the maximum possible amount of “incentives” is doled out, or they might use the threat of moving out to blackmail the communities where they are located. The latter was the case of RF Micro Devices, which received $2 million in 1999 from Greensboro to prevent it from relocating to China.6
“Even if incentives attract jobs, are these the kinds of jobs that North Carolina wants? Companies that locate in this state solely as a result of incentives might not be interested in developing North Carolina’s distinct competitive advantages in priority sectors, such as high technologies. It is particularly disturbing that some of those jobs are not even bound by the minimum wage.7
“The practice of corporate incentives can be challenged as extremely inequitable in two additional ways. First, since these benefits are geared towards large and highly visible enterprises, it is discriminatory towards small businesses, which employ a large segment of the labor force and may even have better growth prospects than big manufacturers. Second, corporate incentives also create geographic inequalities within the state since a limited number of counties are affected by the location of a corporation’s business in the state. In effect, it represents redistribution of income from taxpayers to large corporations, often in exchange for very little in terms of real benefits.”
Apple recently installed a 100 acre solar energy farm and processing center (which employs about 50 FT workers) about 15 miles from me. The energy is used exclusively by Apple. Apple plans another 100 acre solar farm to complete the first one in Maiden. Maiden was once a thriving furniture mfg center employing hundreds of workers.
| 288 |
lawhawk Thu, Dec 5, 2013 6:58:27am |
re: #280 Ian G.
Pittsburgh and Rochester are doing relatively well weathering the rust belt woes because they transitioned to high technology and medical sciences, and made aggressive use of their highly skilled workforce. Buffalo has done poorly and hasn’t figured out a way to transition from industry to services.
| 289 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, Dec 5, 2013 6:58:57am |
re: #281 darthstar
I’m sure with our Democratic super-majorities, the climate here in California will eventually look for a haven such as Illinois in December.
[Dark_Falcon raises his eyebrows in astonishment at the crazy thing he just heard, then lowers them as he shakes his head, reminding himself that Darthstar often willfully does not make sense.]
| 290 |
Ian G. Thu, Dec 5, 2013 6:59:04am |
re: #285 Eclectic Cyborg
You know I used to think banks were about the most evil businesses around…but I think for-profit colleges may have them beat.
Oh yes, for-profit colleges are awful. I’ve met the kind of person who runs recruiting for for-profit colleges. Let’s just say that if you shook his hand, you’d check to see that he didn’t steal your ring afterward.
| 291 |
darthstar Thu, Dec 5, 2013 7:00:18am |
re: #289 Dark_Falcon
[Dark_Falcon raises his eyebrows in astonishment at the crazy thing he just heard, then lowers them as he shakes his head, reminding himself that Darthstar often willfully does not make sense.]
I’m just a little shaken because it dipped into the 40s last night. Brr.
| 292 |
lawhawk Thu, Dec 5, 2013 7:02:23am |
re: #284 Feline Fearless Leader
I can’t help but note that Cobb County will be stuck with a huge bill for the Braves stadium move. There was nothing inherently wrong with Turner Field (other than the complete lack of transit options). The Braves wanted to move to a smaller stadium further away from downtown Atlanta, and didn’t want to encourage folks from the core to come to games.
The team is moving in the opposite direction of every other major stadium project undertaken in the US over the past 25 years - which is to relocate stadiums closer to downtown and with more transit.
| 293 |
Ian G. Thu, Dec 5, 2013 7:02:25am |
re: #288 lawhawk
Pittsburgh and Rochester are doing relatively well weathering the rust belt woes because they transitioned to high technology and medical sciences, and made aggressive use of their highly skilled workforce. Buffalo has done poorly and hasn’t figured out a way to transition from industry to services.
Right. There’s a helluva lot more to what drives an economy than what Rick Perry would have you believe: taxes and taxes alone.
As for Buffalo, a lucky accident of geography might help it come back. It appears some Toronto companies are beginning to move American operations there, to take advantage of the low cost, the nearby location, and the weakening of the greenback relative to the loonie.
| 294 |
Whack-A-Mole Thu, Dec 5, 2013 7:02:53am |
re: #291 darthstar
40 degrees? I wish I could be that lucky. Wind chills are going to be -15 for the next few nights here in WI.
| 295 |
Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut Thu, Dec 5, 2013 7:05:24am |
re: #273 Political Atheist
Unless you disbelieve me that is data. Just a small set.
No, it’s really not. In order for something to be data, it has to be collected in a rigorous fashion. Assemblages of anecdotes aren’t data unless they’re in some way analyzed and curated. Likewise, I can point to, say, the fact that extremely wealthy people in high-tax countries like Norway, Denmark, Sweden etc. don’t tend to flee them, even though they have the ability. Likewise, I can point to many companies that don’t relocate to countries that have lower taxation. I can also do this for US states.
Edit: I see Lawhawk already posted actual data.
| 296 |
William Barnett-Lewis Thu, Dec 5, 2013 7:06:51am |
re: #294 Whack-A-Mole
40 degrees? I wish I could be that lucky. Wind chills are going to be -15 for the next few nights here in WI.
Air temp will be that low up here in northern WI with 10 mph winds. This after about 6 ~ 8 inches of snow. An hour north on the lake shore they got first 22” and the were supposed to get another foot yesterday. Don’t know if they did, I just hunkered down … ;)
| 297 |
darthstar Thu, Dec 5, 2013 7:07:58am |
Penguins are horrifying creatures delivering terrible red death. Now you know http://t.co/A8SM3zEMg6 pic.twitter.com/VnqJ1XWm6r— pourmecoffee (@pourmecoffee) December 5, 2013
| 298 |
Feline Fearless Leader Thu, Dec 5, 2013 7:08:24am |
re: #292 lawhawk
I can’t help but note that Cobb County will be stuck with a huge bill for the Braves stadium move. There was nothing inherently wrong with Turner Field (other than the complete lack of transit options). The Braves wanted to move to a smaller stadium further away from downtown Atlanta, and didn’t want to encourage folks from the core to come to games.
The team is moving in the opposite direction of every other major stadium project undertaken in the US over the past 25 years - which is to relocate stadiums closer to downtown and with more transit.
Redskins moved further out - from old RFK site further east into Maryland. (Lanham?)
| 299 |
Eclectic Cyborg Thu, Dec 5, 2013 7:09:08am |
Offered without comment:
| 300 |
Whack-A-Mole Thu, Dec 5, 2013 7:09:37am |
re: #296 William Barnett-Lewis
Ugh. I feel for you. At least we haven’t gotten any snowfall of note down here in the Fox Valley. A few nights of sleet has been pretty much it for us so far.
| 301 |
Justanotherhuman Thu, Dec 5, 2013 7:10:12am |
| 302 |
Feline Fearless Leader Thu, Dec 5, 2013 7:10:28am |
re: #293 Ian G.
Right. There’s a helluva lot more to what drives an economy than what Rick Perry would have you believe: taxes and taxes alone.
As for Buffalo, a lucky accident of geography might help it come back. It appears some Toronto companies are beginning to move American operations there, to take advantage of the low cost, the nearby location, and the weakening of the greenback relative to the loonie.
If rail travel ever makes a real comeback that might benefit Buffalo since the best rail route from the Eastern Corridor into the interior is up the Hudson and then Mohawk river valleys. From there to Buffalo is straightforward since that facilitates connecting north to Canada, and also to run along the lakes westward.
| 303 |
Feline Fearless Leader Thu, Dec 5, 2013 7:11:08am |
re: #300 Whack-A-Mole
Ugh. I feel for you. At least we haven’t gotten any snowfall of note down here in the Fox Valley. A few nights of sleet has been pretty much it for us so far.
My car last week in western NY state.
| 304 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, Dec 5, 2013 7:11:35am |
re: #292 lawhawk
I can’t help but note that Cobb County will be stuck with a huge bill for the Braves stadium move. There was nothing inherently wrong with Turner Field (other than the complete lack of transit options). The Braves wanted to move to a smaller stadium further away from downtown Atlanta, and didn’t want to encourage folks from the core to come to games.
The team is moving in the opposite direction of every other major stadium project undertaken in the US over the past 25 years - which is to relocate stadiums closer to downtown and with more transit.
The way I read that, they team owner ship wants its game attendees to be more white and suburban. Am I reading that right?
| 305 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, Dec 5, 2013 7:13:14am |
re: #293 Ian G.
Right. There’s a helluva lot more to what drives an economy than what Rick Perry would have you believe: taxes and taxes alone.
As for Buffalo, a lucky accident of geography might help it come back. It appears some Toronto companies are beginning to move American operations there, to take advantage of the low cost, the nearby location, and the weakening of the greenback relative to the loonie.
Hopefully that’ll enable the Sabers and the Bills to afford better players.
| 307 |
Lord of the Pies Thu, Dec 5, 2013 7:19:27am |
HURR HURR IF U R PAID A LOW WAGE U DESERVE IT!!!!!111
#FastFoodStrikes a good indication as to what the true problem is #p2 #TCOT #uniteblue #1u #wiunion pic.twitter.com/w9VWGcfAP1— daniel_thecuban (@daniel_thecuban) December 5, 2013
| 308 |
Lord of the Pies Thu, Dec 5, 2013 7:20:36am |
If fast food workers are worthless, then why don’t the fast food corporations run their businesses without any workers? How would that work out for them?
| 309 |
darthstar Thu, Dec 5, 2013 7:20:57am |
We could cut $71,000,000,000 per year from the federal budget deficit by simply taxing churches http://t.co/j06r8JbbT8 #atheism #atheist— Brutal Atheist (@BrutalAtheist) December 5, 2013
| 310 |
Feline Fearless Leader Thu, Dec 5, 2013 7:21:14am |
re: #308 Lord of the Pies
If fast food workers are worthless, then why don’t the fast food corporations run their businesses without any workers? How would that work out for them?
Drone: Would you like fries with your Hellfire?
311 |
Hercules Grytpype-Thynneghazi Thu, Dec 5, 2013 7:21:25am |
re: #260 Lord of the Pies
Think about where it came from.
Apparently it’s originally from the practice of using a whip to drive a horse.
312 |
b.d. Thu, Dec 5, 2013 7:22:17am |
re: #308 Lord of the Pies
If fast food workers are worthless, then why don’t the fast food corporations run their businesses without any workers? How would that work out for them?
Mickey D’s should build a flying drone army that makes and sells its hamburgers, just like Amazon.com
| 313 |
William Barnett-Lewis Thu, Dec 5, 2013 7:23:00am |
re: #292 lawhawk
I can’t help but note that Cobb County will be stuck with a huge bill for the Braves stadium move. There was nothing inherently wrong with Turner Field (other than the complete lack of transit options). The Braves wanted to move to a smaller stadium further away from downtown Atlanta, and didn’t want to encourage folks from the core to come to games.
The team is moving in the opposite direction of every other major stadium project undertaken in the US over the past 25 years - which is to relocate stadiums closer to downtown and with more transit.
I really believe that not one single penny of taxpayer money should be used to assist privately held sports teams. They make more than enough money to finance their stadiums on their own. If they can’t afford it due to whatever reason let them ether do without or go to the Green Bay ownership model.
I’d support an amendment to that effect too.
| 314 |
Feline Fearless Leader Thu, Dec 5, 2013 7:23:53am |
re: #313 William Barnett-Lewis
I really believe that not one single penny of taxpayer money should be used to assist privately held sports teams. They make more than enough money to finance their stadiums on their own. If they can’t afford it due to whatever reason let them ether do without or go to the Green Bay ownership model.
I’d support an amendment to that effect too.
The NFL has specific by-laws to prevent the Green Bay ownership model from repeating.
| 315 |
William Barnett-Lewis Thu, Dec 5, 2013 7:27:43am |
re: #309 darthstar
[Embedded content]
Well, no not really. It would close about 50 to 75% of the churches in the US that don’t make anywhere near enough money to cover the taxes.
Then you could still not have the tax revenue and increased costs as the government picks up the costs of things like homeless shelters, food pantry’s, job search services, free meals for the homeless and all the other things run by churches in America. A church I used to attend in Madison WI runs all those things and could not afford the $600,000 in taxes that it’s location would cost.
Oh, and the megachurches that are the real problem would swell full of really angry people with no place else to go.
“Be careful what you wish for. You might get it.”
| 316 |
William Barnett-Lewis Thu, Dec 5, 2013 7:29:10am |
re: #314 Feline Fearless Leader
The NFL has specific by-laws to prevent the Green Bay ownership model from repeating.
That could be easily fixed by the congress, if they wished to.
| 317 |
Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut Thu, Dec 5, 2013 7:29:12am |
re: #315 William Barnett-Lewis
Well, no not really. It would close about 50 to 75% of the churches in the US that don’t make anywhere near enough money to cover the taxes.
Can you provide support for this figure?
| 318 |
Ian G. Thu, Dec 5, 2013 7:29:45am |
re: #307 Lord of the Pies
Again, as with Pittsburgh vs. Cleveland in the tax debate, we can compare Walmart and Costco and see that paying unskilled workers a living wage not only doesn’t kill profits, it might actually be good for the bottom line to do so.
Once again, wingnut blathering points don’t stand up to even a modicum of evidence.
| 319 |
Ian G. Thu, Dec 5, 2013 7:32:06am |
| 320 |
Lord of the Pies Thu, Dec 5, 2013 7:32:19am |
WTFITS
@glennbeck: If Hitler had the technology this government has and uses, there wouldn't be a Jew left on the planet. #tcot #LNYHBT— talkradio200 (@talkradio200) December 5, 2013
| 321 |
William Barnett-Lewis Thu, Dec 5, 2013 7:32:27am |
re: #317 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut
Can you provide support for this figure?
It’s a guess based on having been a treasurer in three separate Episcopalian parishes and knowing the finances of most other mainstream protestant churches in the cities I’ve lived in big and small.
The Roman Catholic Church would survive (after closing a lot of small parishes). The Megachurches in the suburbs would survive. Few others would. Proof? No, no more than there is any proof of the $reallybignumber in the first post of this sub-thread.
| 322 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, Dec 5, 2013 7:33:29am |
re: #316 William Barnett-Lewis
That could be easily fixed by the congress, if they wished to.
Any such move by Congress would be squelched by the use or threatened movement of campaign donations. Being in Congress means raising lots of money, and most Members of Congress and Senators cannot afford to alienate big donors.
| 323 |
Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut Thu, Dec 5, 2013 7:34:57am |
| 324 |
William Barnett-Lewis Thu, Dec 5, 2013 7:35:51am |
re: #322 Dark_Falcon
Any such move by Congress would be squelched by the use or threatened movement of campaign donations. Being in Congress means raising lots of money, and most Members of Congress and Senators cannot afford to alienate big donors.
Yes, I know all about the bribery & extortion that has been legalized via “campaign contributions”.
| 325 |
William Barnett-Lewis Thu, Dec 5, 2013 7:36:49am |
re: #323 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut
That’s what I figured.
Just like the fantasy number of income such a tax would bring in.
But there are _never_ any unintended consequences to policy decisions are there?
| 326 |
bratwurst Thu, Dec 5, 2013 7:36:49am |
re: #304 Dark_Falcon
The way I read that, they team owner ship wants its game attendees to be more white and suburban. Am I reading that right?
No, I am pretty sure the most important issue there is the ability to develop revenue-generating bars and restaurants to create a pre- and post-game attraction. The fanbase is already heavily white and suburban, a part of this move is to get the team closer to them.
| 327 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, Dec 5, 2013 7:36:56am |
re: #320 Lord of the Pies
WTFITS
[Embedded content]
@talkradio200 @glennbeck And if the Romans had modern artillery they would have won the battle of Cannae.What's the point of that statement?
— Kurt Akemann (@Dark_Falcon7) December 5, 2013
328 |
Flounder Thu, Dec 5, 2013 7:38:30am |
Sharpton, Other Civil Rights Leaders Launch Fight Against ‘Knockout Game’
Knockout Game’ Is ‘Vicious. It Is Ugly. It Must Be Stopped,’ Sharpton Says
| 329 |
Lord of the Pies Thu, Dec 5, 2013 7:39:16am |
re: #327 Dark_Falcon
The point of the statement is HURR HURR OBAMA IS JUST LIKE HITLER!!!!11!!!!
Except without the invasion of other countries and the murder of millions.
| 330 |
Ian G. Thu, Dec 5, 2013 7:39:55am |
re: #320 Lord of the Pies
WTFITS
[Embedded content]
So modern technology would have allowed Germany to conquer the US? I’m reminded of the line from “Casablanca” where Humphrey Bogart warns the Nazi commander about invading certain parts of New York….
| 331 |
Justanotherhuman Thu, Dec 5, 2013 7:40:29am |
I think I might make a Spotted Dick for xmas.
This traditional recipe sounds great but rather than using their cake recipe, I’ll use this one without the use of suet, but keep the custard:
| 332 |
Varek Raith Thu, Dec 5, 2013 7:40:58am |
*Goes back in time, gives Genghis Khan a tank*
Trollololo
| 333 |
Lord of the Pies Thu, Dec 5, 2013 7:41:03am |
re: #328 Flounder
Sharpton, Other Civil Rights Leaders Launch Fight Against ‘Knockout Game’
I thought there is no “Knockout game” that it’s just the same random muggings that have been going on since forever.
| 334 |
Feline Fearless Leader Thu, Dec 5, 2013 7:41:34am |
re: #315 William Barnett-Lewis
Well, no not really. It would close about 50 to 75% of the churches in the US that don’t make anywhere near enough money to cover the taxes.
Then you could still not have the tax revenue and increased costs as the government picks up the costs of things like homeless shelters, food pantry’s, job search services, free meals for the homeless and all the other things run by churches in America. A church I used to attend in Madison WI runs all those things and could not afford the $600,000 in taxes that it’s location would cost.
Oh, and the megachurches that are the real problem would swell full of really angry people with no place else to go.
“Be careful what you wish for. You might get it.”
I suspect anyone really serious in the concept (and not just blathering about a “simple solution” as a talking point) would study the impact and then offer some sort of complex solution involving an exemption that would cover smaller churches and probably also give breaks regarding charitable works.
I believe, for instance, that Indiana has an exemption from property tax that covers national fraternity headquarters operations. Subject to certain restrictions of course, which I think includes size of parcel. One reason a lot of them are in that state and clustered around Indianapolis. Something like that would probably be offered if the goal was to protect the smaller churches running hand-to-mouth while sticking it to the megachurches that seem to mainly be profiting to benefit their pastors.
335 |
Bulworth Thu, Dec 5, 2013 7:41:56am |
re: #327 Dark_Falcon
Yeah I don’t get it either. DRONES??!?!?!?!!?!?!?!?!?!!11111
NSA??????!!!?!!?!
| 336 |
Feline Fearless Leader Thu, Dec 5, 2013 7:42:44am |
| 337 |
Flounder Thu, Dec 5, 2013 7:43:00am |
re: #333 Lord of the Pies
They must be still working on the data.
| 338 |
lawhawk Thu, Dec 5, 2013 7:43:01am |
re: #327 Dark_Falcon
A dollar and a dream. Let’s just ignore that all but about 130,000 Jews murdered by the Nazis lived outside Germany. Nearly 4.5 million lived in Poland and Russia - both of which had standing armies that failed to stop the Nazi invasions of both countries. The rest lived in countries that also fell to the Nazis, including much of France, the low Countries, Austria, Czechoslovakia, Greece, Romania, or were allied with the Nazis, including Italy.
| 339 |
Justanotherhuman Thu, Dec 5, 2013 7:44:06am |
| 340 |
Political Atheist Thu, Dec 5, 2013 7:44:37am |
re: #295 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut
How about movie and TV production? They famously react to tax and regulatory changes or environments. Of course lots of factors matter besides taxes. I think the right exaggerates tax consequences and the opposite side sometimes makes the predictable opposite mistake.
Recently this had been making news. The SF valley economy enjoys the benefits of that industry. Regulation, not taxes are at issue.
L.A.’s condom law sends porn industry packing
latimes.com
| 341 |
Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut Thu, Dec 5, 2013 7:44:38am |
re: #325 William Barnett-Lewis
Just like the fantasy number of income such a tax would bring in.
But there are _never_ any unintended consequences to policy decisions are there?
There’s plenty of unintended consequences, that doesn’t mean you just get to make up shit. Seriously, dude, what the hell. You just stated that figure like it was a fact. Why is it okay for you to do that, but not for the GOP to pull numbers out of their asses?
I completely think that any far-ranging tax policy like that would have to be studied as to its implications. What I wouldn’t do is just make that shit up.
For fuck’s sake.
| 342 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, Dec 5, 2013 7:44:52am |
re: #328 Flounder
Sharpton, Other Civil Rights Leaders Launch Fight Against ‘Knockout Game’
Watch Fudged News Channel and Weird Nut Daily ignore this story. Just like they ignored Mayor Nutter of Philadelphia’s declaration against saidsame ‘game’.
Both New York City and Philadelphia use COMPSTAT to track violent trends such as the ‘knockout game’, examine the circumstances in which they occur, and then deploy police accordingly. This use of proactive police tactics is the most effective way to fight violent crime, but it gets far less attention from the press than it should.
| 343 |
lawhawk Thu, Dec 5, 2013 7:45:35am |
re: #332 Varek Raith
Gives Aztecs airplanes. Gives Mayans artillery. And gives Native Americans oil, tanks, and planes, instead of $24 in trinkets for Manhattan. /Oh, what fun we could have.. /
| 344 |
Varek Raith Thu, Dec 5, 2013 7:45:55am |
Congressman Says U.S. Should Use Nuclear Weapons If It Attacks Iran
What in the fuck….
| 345 |
William Barnett-Lewis Thu, Dec 5, 2013 7:45:56am |
re: #334 Feline Fearless Leader
I suspect anyone really serious in the concept (and not just blathering about a “simple solution” as a talking point) would study the impact and then offer some sort of complex solution involving an exemption that would cover smaller churches and probably also give breaks regarding charitable works.
I believe, for instance, that Indiana has an exemption from property tax that covers national fraternity headquarters operations. Subject to certain restrictions of course, which I think includes size of parcel. One reason a lot of them are in that state and clustered around Indianapolis. Something like that would probably be offered if the goal was to protect the smaller churches running hand-to-mouth while sticking it to the megachurches that seem to mainly be profiting to benefit their pastors.
Such a proposal is a very different critter and might be able to do some good if it could be passed.
| 346 |
Flounder Thu, Dec 5, 2013 7:47:08am |
re: #342 Dark_Falcon
Its funny you should mention comstat
Mayor-elect Bill de Blasio has announced that former NYPD commissioner Bill Bratton will replace Ray Kelly next month.
The appointment comes nearly a month after de Blasio won a landslide election on a promise to overhaul the way stop-and-frisk tactics were used.
Bratton was NYPD commissioner under Mayor Giuliani from 1994 to 1996 and is credited with implementing the ComStat computer policing system that allows the department to flood high activity zones with patrol officers. Giuliani - who once fired Bratton - endorsed him for the job last month.
| 347 |
Justanotherhuman Thu, Dec 5, 2013 7:48:27am |
re: #301 Justanotherhuman
No! They’re one of my g-grandson’s favorite animals!
| 348 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, Dec 5, 2013 7:48:38am |
re: #340 Political Atheist
How about movie and TV production? They famously react to tax and regulatory changes or environments. Of course lots of factors matter besides taxes. I think the right exaggerates tax consequences and the opposite side sometimes makes the predictable opposite mistake.
Recently this had been making news. The SF valley economy enjoys the benefits of that industry. Regulation, not taxes are at issue.
L.A.’s condom law sends porn industry packing
latimes.com
The major problem with that story is the Ted Rall cartoon. The cartoon loses its punch once you remember what a dirtbag its creator is.
| 349 |
William Barnett-Lewis Thu, Dec 5, 2013 7:48:41am |
re: #341 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut
Sure. Whatever you say.
| 350 |
Feline Fearless Leader Thu, Dec 5, 2013 7:50:03am |
re: #345 William Barnett-Lewis
Such a proposal is a very different critter and might be able to do some good if it could be passed.
Most serious solutions are “different critters” from the offered simple solutions that really aren’t simple in the scope of their impact.
| 351 |
lawhawk Thu, Dec 5, 2013 7:50:19am |
re: #340 Political Atheist
Film/tv/broadcast incentives are notoriously poorly written and those productions take advantage of this to a crazy extent. Yet, on-location shooting has increased in high-tax/high regulatory environments like NYC, because it’s tough to duplicate these kinds of locations. That and a whole lot of talent lives here.
But other cities (countries) try to get work, citing lower costs. This includes Vancouver and Toronto.
| 352 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, Dec 5, 2013 7:50:28am |
re: #344 Varek Raith
Congressman Says U.S. Should Use Nuclear Weapons If It Attacks Iran
What in the fuck….
| 353 |
Whack-A-Mole Thu, Dec 5, 2013 7:51:50am |
re: #339 Justanotherhuman
Reminds me of the few times I’ve had to drive through Michigan’s UP. I’ve seen houses up there with exterior doors on the second floor. No porches or anything, just a door opening on nothing in case the lower level gets snowed in.
| 354 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, Dec 5, 2013 7:52:00am |
re: #346 Flounder
Its funny you should mention comstat
Let me just say “Good decision, Mr. de Blasio.”
| 356 |
Political Atheist Thu, Dec 5, 2013 7:59:16am |
re: #283 sagehen
The wind-patterns/edge of the inversion layer means that refinery emissions in LA would ruin millions of people’s air; those same emissions in Ontario only ruin a couple hundred thousand people’s air (all of whom would have it just as ruined for them if it came from LA anyhow).
also — the chance of a spill at the beach, vs a spill in Ontario… which one will do more harm to Cali’s lucrative tourism industry?
These regulations happen for a reason, I wouldn’t call them “excessively tight”.
No that is incorrect. The refinery I refer to recycles and processes metals. The emissions from our refinery are tightly regulated by the state. All the similar installations have excellent scrubbers, baghouses etc. And yes some of those regulations are counter productive, merely displace rather than resolve certain pollution issues. Or actually interfere with compliance.
| 357 |
Aqua Obama Thu, Dec 5, 2013 8:00:14am |
re: #275 Ian G.
Nah, let’s play the anecdote game.
How come Cleveland, in low-tax Ohio, is so much more of a basket case than Pittsburgh, in high-tax Pennsylvania, especially when there’s so much similarity between the two cities (industrial history, size, higher ed establishments, climate, etc.)?
Maybe, contra what wingers would have you believe, there’s more to how well a metro area is doing economically than just tax rates?
To build on what lawhawk was saying, Pittsburgh and Rochester had to make due with existing infrastructure, unlike Texas, which has almost no regulation and the only path to growth is upwards and outwards.
I’d argue that this the planned nature and the high standard of architecture in these cities make it a lot easier to revitalize than miles of abandoned strip malls and industrial parks.
Pittsburgh and Rochester at their worst still carried a kind of grace that Ft. Worth doesn’t even have in its “prosperity”.
| 358 |
Justanotherhuman Thu, Dec 5, 2013 8:00:43am |
re: #353 Whack-A-Mole
Reminds me of the few times I’ve had to drive through Michigan’s UP. I’ve seen houses up there with exterior doors on the second floor. No porches or anything, just a door opening on nothing in case the lower level gets snowed in.
Well, back in the day (late 40s, early 50s), we wore wool “leggings”, heavy coat, scarf, galoshes, mittens, on our walk to school. We were usually soaked by the time we got there if it was still snowing, and boy, did those articles stink by the end of the day, sometimes not drying out unless we were allowed to put some on the radiators and then the entire school stank.
Very similar to these, with a bib: etsy.com
| 359 |
FemNaziBitch Thu, Dec 5, 2013 8:02:46am |
360 |
chadu Thu, Dec 5, 2013 8:04:01am |
re: #79 Lidane
The wingnut Catholics are either in full apologetics mode or they’re screaming Teh Pope Iz teh Vatican Obummer at full volume. It’s been fun to watch.
Francis wouldn’t be Pope if he was anything other than an arch-conservative theologically. The Cardinals wouldn’t have voted him in otherwise. He’s more openly sympathetic to the poor because of his experiences in Latin America, but he’s just as much a hardliner as Benedict and JPII. There won’t be any major changes to Catholic doctrine or practice while he’s Pope. Count on it.
I think his shifting priorities towards social justice rather than social conservative issues has been good.
Also, I’ve been hearing that he’s been sneaking out of the Vatican dressed as a regular priest to help the needy of Rome; and his security is pissed. Vatican will not confirm nor deny.
| 361 |
Aqua Obama Thu, Dec 5, 2013 8:05:45am |
Last time I was anywhere near Cleveland, some guy was telling me how wonderful their water filtration system was.
Civic pride is a weird concept to me, where I’m at, especially when there’s an “unhealthy air advisory” when it’s only 40 degrees out.
| 363 |
Justanotherhuman Thu, Dec 5, 2013 8:06:21am |
re: #348 Dark_Falcon
The major problem with that story is the Ted Rall cartoon. The cartoon loses its punch once you remember what a dirtbag its creator is.
Any porn actor who doesn’t mind putting others at risk deserves condemnation.
| 364 |
Bulworth Thu, Dec 5, 2013 8:06:51am |
Sorry for my paging problem earlier, but here is the link to the Gallup article I mentioned on the ACA polling. I was able to delete the page which contained content that wasn’t attributed properly. Unfortunately I sometimes have computer problems on my end. Will be more careful. Thanks.
| 365 |
Lord of the Pies Thu, Dec 5, 2013 8:09:26am |
Uh Bryan where exactly in the Bible is abortion mentioned?
Don't let him lie to you: desperate Democrat senator says Bible is his guide, but he's pro-abortion. http://t.co/3PA1lH544x— Bryan Fischer (@BryanJFischer) December 5, 2013
366 |
BongCrodny Thu, Dec 5, 2013 8:10:37am |
re: #321 William Barnett-Lewis
It’s a guess based on having been a treasurer in three separate Episcopalian parishes and knowing the finances of most other mainstream protestant churches in the cities I’ve lived in big and small.
The Roman Catholic Church would survive (after closing a lot of small parishes). The Megachurches in the suburbs would survive. Few others would. Proof? No, no more than there is any proof of the $reallybignumber in the first post of this sub-thread.
I’m not sure the $71 billion figure is that far-fetched.
U.S. Catholic Church A $170 Billion Business
The church does not release financial data, but a lengthy report by The Economist last year said annual spending by the Vatican and church-owned entities in the U.S. alone was about $170 billion in 2010. While there are no hard data about the U.S. Catholic Church’s annual revenue, Slate puts those spending numbers into some perspective — noting that in fiscal 2012 Apple (AAPL +1.28%) had $157 billion in revenue and that only 16 companies have more than $170 billion in revenue.
Assuming that number is accurate, even a tax rate of 10% would mean $17 billion from the Catholic Church alone. Throw in all those mega-churches with their tens of thousands of members, and I can see numbers approaching $71 billion, if not reaching that mark.
| 367 |
FemNaziBitch Thu, Dec 5, 2013 8:11:56am |
re: #366 BongCrodny
I’m not sure the $71 billion figure is that far-fetched.
U.S. Catholic Church A $170 Billion Business
Assuming that number is accurate, even a tax rate of 10% would mean $17 billion from the Catholic Church alone. Throw in all those mega-churches with their tens of thousands of members, and I can see numbers approaching $71 billion, if not reaching that mark.
Let’s try it and see …
| 368 |
FemNaziBitch Thu, Dec 5, 2013 8:12:41am |
re: #365 Lord of the Pies
Uh Bryan where exactly in the Bible is abortion mentioned?
[Embedded content]
It doesn’t matter what is really in the bible —it only matters what was interpreted and translated and deduced by MEN throughout the ages.
| 369 |
Bulworth Thu, Dec 5, 2013 8:13:19am |
re: #365 Lord of the Pies
I would rather no public official say anything like “the Bible is my guide”, but I understand the environments some officials serve. And, Bryan, please STFU. Kthanks.
| 370 |
FemNaziBitch Thu, Dec 5, 2013 8:13:43am |
reposting from above.
Yes, I think it is all that.
upworthy.com
| 371 |
Varek Raith Thu, Dec 5, 2013 8:14:01am |
re: #365 Lord of the Pies
Uh Bryan where exactly in the Bible is abortion mentioned?
[Embedded content]
My irony meter disintegrated.
372 |
compound_Idaho Thu, Dec 5, 2013 8:15:02am |
re: #366 BongCrodny
I’m not sure the $71 billion figure is that far-fetched.
U.S. Catholic Church A $170 Billion Business
Assuming that number is accurate, even a tax rate of 10% would mean $17 billion from the Catholic Church alone. Throw in all those mega-churches with their tens of thousands of members, and I can see numbers approaching $71 billion, if not reaching that mark.
But we don’t tax revenue, we tax profit. Unless you are suggesting we tax the revenue of all non-profits.
| 373 |
Political Atheist Thu, Dec 5, 2013 8:15:40am |
Is this one of those advocacy sites, never to be trusted?
| 374 |
Whack-A-Mole Thu, Dec 5, 2013 8:17:07am |
re: #362 FemNaziBitch
That was awesome! Contrary to what the jerk wrote, she most definitely is an example for the community’s children, boys, girls, men, and women. Brave, strong, and not willing to fold in the face of hate.
| 375 |
Bulworth Thu, Dec 5, 2013 8:17:53am |
re: #371 Varek Raith
There’s a verse in Isaiah or Jeremiah that says something to the effect of “before you were in the womb I knew you”, which is taken by anti-abortionists/anti-birth controllers as evidence FACT CONFIRMED that a human soul exists before they exist.
| 376 |
FemNaziBitch Thu, Dec 5, 2013 8:18:39am |
re: #372 compound_Idaho
But we don’t tax revenue, we tax profit. Unless you are suggesting we tax the revenue of all non-profits.
I have no profit —well, the 401K (but that is not taxed).
my revenue is taxed.
I propose we tax 501(c)3’s at a 50% (If that will make people less upset) and see how much we get.
audit everyone over $500M.
| 377 |
Lord of the Pies Thu, Dec 5, 2013 8:19:20am |
re: #375 Bulworth
There’s a verse in Isaiah or Jeremiah that says something to the effect of “before you were in the womb I knew you”, which is taken by anti-abortionists/anti-birth controllers as evidence FACT CONFIRMED that a human soul exists before they exist.
Judaism teaches that the soul enters the body with the first breath of air.
| 378 |
FemNaziBitch Thu, Dec 5, 2013 8:20:31am |
re: #375 Bulworth
There’s a verse in Isaiah or Jeremiah that says something to the effect of “before you were in the womb I knew you”, which is taken by anti-abortionists/anti-birth controllers as evidence FACT CONFIRMED that a human soul exists before they exist.
On I-70 (71?) going West into Indiana from Ohio, there is a billboard that states this verse.
Therefore, it is a confirmed FACT.
/
| 379 |
Bulworth Thu, Dec 5, 2013 8:20:38am |
re: #377 Lord of the Pies
Yeah but ‘before the womb I knew you’, see, checkmate libtards!@!!!1111
| 380 |
Justanotherhuman Thu, Dec 5, 2013 8:21:16am |
re: #362 FemNaziBitch
Holy F…..!
[Embedded content]
When it’s about looks, I agree that it’s bullying and cruel. To criticize and taunt people about their looks is petty and not helpful.
But when it’s about health, and avoiding considering what obesity does to one’s body, then it’s neglect by the overweight person. I know from personal experience that a few of my health problems stemmed from the fact that I packed some pounds on as I got older. Losing 35 lbs made me lose Type II diabetes as well, and gave me more energy which in turn allowed me to be more physically active.
Rather than being cruel, or, in turn, being defensive, why don’t we concentrate on the health and life benefits of eating the right foods in the right portions for ourselves, empowering ourselves in our health management, and being more active and less sedentary? Those are the examples we should set for our children, too. Isn’t that what First Lady Michelle Obama is trying to teach the nation?
| 381 |
Feline Fearless Leader Thu, Dec 5, 2013 8:21:24am |
re: #376 FemNaziBitch
I have no profit —well, the 401K (but that is not taxed).
my revenue is taxed.
I propose we tax 501(c)3’s at a 50% (If that will make people less upset) and see how much we get.
audit everyone over $500M.
Why not go full bore. Force them to disgorge a list of their parishioners and then “tithe” them all 10% of their gross income as the “Render Unto Caeser Charge”?
///
| 382 |
BongCrodny Thu, Dec 5, 2013 8:22:06am |
re: #372 compound_Idaho
But we don’t tax revenue, we tax profit. Unless you are suggesting we tax the revenue of all non-profits.
That’s a good point.
The story does specify that the $170 billion is “spending,” not “income.” I’m not much of a numbers guy, but I do feel that the “big churches” have been getting a free ride for a long time.
| 383 |
Decatur Deb Thu, Dec 5, 2013 8:23:30am |
re: #357 Aqua Obama
There is a movie that synthesizes the death and rebirth of Pittsburgh. Oddly, it’s Flashdance.
| 384 |
Feline Fearless Leader Thu, Dec 5, 2013 8:23:35am |
re: #378 FemNaziBitch
On I-70 (71?) going West into Indiana from Ohio, there is a billboard that states this verse.
Therefore, it is a confirmed FACT.
/
Sounds like some sort of reincarnation thing. (Or I guess an incarnation thing if every soul is deemed “new”.) The debate then becomes the point in the gestation process at which the soul enters the womb to inhabit the fetus. Which I guess is the whole “quickening” thing.
| 385 |
Aqua Obama Thu, Dec 5, 2013 8:24:33am |
Unfortunate quotes, Japan edition:
On Monday, Mr Aso had said in a speech that: “The German Weimar constitution changed, without being noticed, to the Nazi German constitution. Why don’t we learn from their tactics?”
Yeah, this is a few months old, but there’s a pretty sleazy “secrecy law” running it’s way through the Japanese diet right now. Its kind to be expected after the electorate voted in the most pro-nuclear party there is to oversee the cleanup of Fukushima.
| 386 |
FemNaziBitch Thu, Dec 5, 2013 8:24:34am |
re: #380 Justanotherhuman
When it’s about looks, I agree that it’s bullying and cruel. To criticize and taunt people about their looks is petty and not helpful.
But when it’s about health, and avoiding considering what obesity does to one’s body, then it’s neglect by the overweight person. I know from personal experience that a few of my health problems stemmed from the fact that I packed some pounds on as I got older. Losing 35 lbs made me lose Type II diabetes as well, and gave me more energy which in turn allowed me to be more physically active.
Rather than being cruel, or, in turn, being defensive, why don’t we concentrate on the health and life benefits of eating the right foods in the right portions for ourselves, empowering ourselves in our health management, and being more active and less sedentary? Those are the examples we should set for our children, too. Isn’t that what First Lady Michelle Obama is trying to teach the nation?
There is a health toll associated with guilt and the pain of failure, of not fitting in and somehow being a bad person. I think a person’s weight and their health are between them and their doctor. It’s wrong to assume a person’s size is a health problem.
Like she said at the beginning, “You think I don’t know I’m overweight?”
| 387 |
Feline Fearless Leader Thu, Dec 5, 2013 8:28:15am |
re: #383 Decatur Deb
There is a movie that synthesizes the death and rebirth of Pittsburgh. Oddly, it’s Flashdance.
Pretty much. Pittsburgh in the 80s was making the transition from the failed/failing steel industry into banking, and tech/medical based around the universities. Didn’t hurt that ALCOA and PPG rode it out and stayed in the area.
IIRC, the biggest employer in Allegheny County is now UPMC (Univ Pittsburgh Medical Center).
However, some of the satellite towns that were very steel dependent (Braddock, Homestead, etc.) have come back much more slowly.
| 388 |
wrenchwench Thu, Dec 5, 2013 8:31:04am |
re: #373 Political Atheist
Is this one of those advocacy sites, never to be trusted?
My 10 minute analysis says conservative, but not necessarily unreasonable.
| 389 |
Aqua Obama Thu, Dec 5, 2013 8:31:28am |
More about that Japanese bill:
The first rule of the pending state secrets bill is that a secret is a secret. The second rule is that anyone who leaks a secret and/or a reporter who makes it public via a published report or broadcast can face up to 10 years in prison. The third rule is that there are no rules as to which government agencies can declare information to be a state secret and no checks on them to determine that they don’t abuse the privilege; even defunct agencies can rule their information to be secret. The fourth rule is that anything pertaining to nuclear energy is a state secret, which means there will no longer be any problems with nuclear power in this country because we won’t know anything about it. And what we don’t know can’t hurt us.
The law has been compared to the pre-World War II Peace Preservation Law, which was used to arrest and jail any individual who opposed the government party line. “Japan already has a very weak freedom of information act which this will cripple,” said Yutaka Saito, a member of the Japan In-House Lawyers Association task force. “The bill takes everything bad about national security laws in the U.S. and then removes all the safeguards and checks.”
You should believe Prime Minister Abe when he tells that he doesn’t know notorious yakuza financier Icchu Nagamoto — even though he had his photo taken with him in 2008.
But this isn’t America, so certain people won’t care.
| 390 |
Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut Thu, Dec 5, 2013 8:34:03am |
re: #373 Political Atheist
Is this one of those advocacy sites, never to be trusted?
Dr. Wayne Gable, from the Koch’s ‘charitable’ arm, is their Chairman. They speak at ALEC. Their board is entirely business guys. Their president was one of the main things pushing for the Bush tax cuts.
| 391 |
Varek Raith Thu, Dec 5, 2013 8:34:09am |
re: #389 Aqua Obama
More about that Japanese bill:
But this isn’t America, so certain people won’t care.
Good grief, what a law.
:/
| 392 |
blueraven Thu, Dec 5, 2013 8:34:20am |
re: #364 Bulworth
Sorry for my paging problem earlier, but here is the link to the Gallup article I mentioned on the ACA polling. I was able to delete the page which contained content that wasn’t attributed properly. Unfortunately I sometimes have computer problems on my end. Will be more careful. Thanks.
I saw this poll yesterday. Notice the biggest factor in regards to those currently uninsured, who will or will not get health insurance is ideology/party.
I am thinking many of these people will say they wont participate, but push come to shove, they will quietly sign up.
| 393 |
Feline Fearless Leader Thu, Dec 5, 2013 8:35:09am |
re: #389 Aqua Obama
More about that Japanese bill:
But this isn’t America, so certain people won’t care.
They’ll just ignore it, or see it as a Clancy novel coming true.
/
| 394 |
Aqua Obama Thu, Dec 5, 2013 8:35:25am |
re: #387 Feline Fearless Leader
However, some of the satellite towns that were very steel dependent (Braddock, Homestead, etc.) have come back much more slowly.
Heh, I never saw so many go-go bars in one place.
| 395 |
wrenchwench Thu, Dec 5, 2013 8:37:33am |
re: #390 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut
Dr. Wayne Gable, from the Koch’s ‘charitable’ arm, is their Chairman. They speak at ALEC. Their board is entirely business guys. Their president was one of the main things pushing for the Bush tax cuts.
So much for my 10 minute analysis.
I thought the testimony they gave about repealing the sales tax in Rhode Island was interesting, but I did notice they don’t talk about the regressivity of a sales tax.
| 396 |
Backwoods_Sleuth Thu, Dec 5, 2013 8:38:41am |
Pic: an eerie Blackpool - Britain braces for the the worst tidal surge in 60 years http://t.co/4GpzTEHoi9 #c4news pic.twitter.com/vMfiruon7b
— Channel 4 News (@Channel4News) December 5, 2013
| 398 |
Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut Thu, Dec 5, 2013 8:41:29am |
re: #395 wrenchwench
They’re probably not a gibbering evil incarnate group, and it’s easy to agree with broad goals like ‘simplicity’ and ‘transparency’. However, they’re clearly a one-sided group.
| 399 |
Decatur Deb Thu, Dec 5, 2013 8:41:36am |
re: #395 wrenchwench
So much for my 10 minute analysis.
I thought the testimony they gave about repealing the sales tax in Rhode Island was interesting, but I did notice they don’t talk about the regressivity of a sales tax.
Alabama’s isn’t regressive—it’s reactionary. By keeping a 9-11% sales tax on food, we turn Yankee SNAP dollars into Alabama revenue. Who said the poor and their EBTs aren’t useful?
| 400 |
Feline Fearless Leader Thu, Dec 5, 2013 8:42:26am |
re: #394 Aqua Obama
Heh, I never saw so many go-go bars in one place.
I remarked to a friend in 1992 or so that Braddock looked like someone had hit it with a neutron bomb - buildings were there, but the people were gone.
Homestead and the South Side* stretch near the former LTV works had tons of small bars all along their main streets. Some survived for quite a while after the mills closed. Most of the South Side ones are gone, but still a lot of bars there since that is one of the bar/restaurant “places to go” now. (Sort of like South Street in Philly.)
* - For those unfamiliar with Pittsburgh geography the “South Side” is the part of the city on the south bank of the Monagahela River. Generally refers to the South Side flats area in particular right off the river. With the “South Hills” behind it as you ascend the bluff. “North Side” and “North Hills” refers to areas on the north bank of the Allegheny River.
| 401 |
Lord of the Pies Thu, Dec 5, 2013 8:43:21am |
| 402 |
wrenchwench Thu, Dec 5, 2013 8:44:35am |
re: #399 Decatur Deb
Alabama’s isn’t regressive—it’s reactionary. By keeping a 9-11% sales tax on food, we turn Yankee SNAP dollars into Alabama revenue. Who said the poor and their EBTs aren’t useful?
That’s one thing Bill Richardson did that I admired: got the sales tax off of food.
| 403 |
Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut Thu, Dec 5, 2013 8:45:09am |
re: #398 Absalom, Absalom, Obdicut
Scott Hodge, the Tax Foundation president, is more of an asshole than I thought. He was one of the founders of the Heartland Institute. What a jerk.
| 404 |
Eventual Carrion Thu, Dec 5, 2013 8:46:23am |
re: #368 FemNaziBitch
It doesn’t matter what is really in the bible —it only matters what was interpreted and translated and deduced by MEN throughout the ages.
I don’t remember so much a story about abortion, just bashing children heads against rocks which happens after they are born. And the whole stoning them for disobedience. So the whole anti-choice canard “they are a living child and you can’t kill them” is total bullshit according to their bible.
405 |
Dr. Matt Thu, Dec 5, 2013 8:46:30am |
Sarah Palin: People might be afraid to ‘start a business’ because Martin Bashir attacked me
“My role is to accept his apology and be humble enough and to, you know, accept it and move on,” Palin told the hosts of Fox & Friends on Thursday. “But I just hope that unprovoked attacks like that don’t result in people being hesitant to jump in the arena anyway, to get out there and serve the public or start a business or really commit themselves to changing within their family, their community, their world, doing whatever they can despite the fact that, in this world, you are going to be hurt and attacks will come your way.”
DAFAQ!?! Is The Onion her handler????
| 406 |
Political Atheist Thu, Dec 5, 2013 8:47:03am |
Watch out where you plug in your electric/plug in hybrid car. You could be charged with theft.
wired.com
A Georgia man was lead out of his house in handcuffs for the absolutely heinous crime of plugging his EV in without asking permission. The reprehensible reprobate absconded with an entire nickel’s worth of juice.
Authorities charged Kaveh Kamooneh with theft after he (allegedly) charged his Nissan Leaf for about 20 minutes while watching his son’s tennis practice.
According to reports, a police officer responded to a complaint that a vehicle parked outside Chamblee Middle School was plugged into an outlet. Kamooneh said he noticed the police officer milling around his car and wandered over to see what the problem was.
“A theft is a theft,” police Sgt. Ernesto Ford told Atlanta’s Channel 11 News.
Imagine if they did that to all of us who plug in our devices out and about? Are we all thiefs ?
| 407 |
Aqua Obama Thu, Dec 5, 2013 8:51:45am |
| 408 |
Lord of the Pies Thu, Dec 5, 2013 8:52:03am |
No you dumbass, the Waltons got there by inheriting.
The people at the top got there by working hard, saving and investing. #FastFoodStrikes #facts #UniteBlue— MSNBC Unbiased (@MSNBC_Latest) December 5, 2013
410 |
CuriousLurker Thu, Dec 5, 2013 8:52:54am |
re: #405 Dr. Matt
FYI: looks like you’ve got an anti-vaxer challenge over in the Pages, but she didn’t use the “reply” button, so you’re not going to receive notification unless you subscribed to “Email all comments”.
| 411 |
wrenchwench Thu, Dec 5, 2013 8:53:56am |
re: #405 Dr. Matt
DAFAQ!?! Is The Onion her handler????
doing whatever they can despite the fact that, in this world, you are going to be hurt and attacks will come your way
Did she just find out what it’s like to be black in America?
I didn’t think so.
| 412 |
BusyMonster Thu, Dec 5, 2013 8:55:26am |
re: #315 William Barnett-Lewis
Well, no not really. It would close about 50 to 75% of the churches in the US that don’t make anywhere near enough money to cover the taxes.
Then you could still not have the tax revenue and increased costs as the government picks up the costs of things like homeless shelters, food pantry’s, job search services, free meals for the homeless and all the other things run by churches in America. A church I used to attend in Madison WI runs all those things and could not afford the $600,000 in taxes that it’s location would cost.
Oh, and the megachurches that are the real problem would swell full of really angry people with no place else to go.
“Be careful what you wish for. You might get it.”
I don’t give a shit. I’m tired of dragging freeloaders’ asses.
| 413 |
Sol Berdinowitz Thu, Dec 5, 2013 8:57:47am |
re: #408 Lord of the Pies
The people at the top got there by working hard, saving and investing.
No you dumbass, the Waltons got there by inheriting.
As did Mitt Romney and the Bush Presidents…whereas Barack Obama, who, right out of a screenplay to illustrate the American Dream, came from a non-privileged background and made his way up through hard work and initiative, is the anti-Christ.
| 414 |
Dr. Matt Thu, Dec 5, 2013 8:58:36am |
re: #410 CuriousLurker
Anti-vaxxers are cut from the same cloth as birfers, trufers, and GG fanboys. You can provide them causal proof to refute their bullshit, and they’ll continue to deny reality.
| 415 |
Lord of the Pies Thu, Dec 5, 2013 8:58:59am |
re: #413 Sol Berdinowitz
The people at the top got there by working hard, saving and investing.
As did Mitt Romney and the Bush Presidents…whereas Barack Obama, who, right out of a screenplay to illustrate the American Dream, came from a non-privileged background and made his way up through hard work and initiative, is the anti-Christ.
HURR HURR HIS GRANDMA WAS A BANK PRESIDENT AND A COMMUNIST!!!!!!11!!!
| 416 |
Sol Berdinowitz Thu, Dec 5, 2013 8:59:02am |
re: #411 wrenchwench
Did she just find out what it’s like to be black in America?
I didn’t think so.
Bashir overdid it, and Sarah is going to milk her “victim” status for all it’s worth.
| 417 |
Decatur Deb Thu, Dec 5, 2013 9:00:12am |
re: #413 Sol Berdinowitz
The people at the top got there by working hard, saving and investing.
As did Mitt Romney and the Bush Presidents…whereas Barack Obama, who, right out of a screenplay to illustrate the American Dream, came from a non-privileged background and made his way up through hard work and initiative, is the anti-Christ.
Let’s not re-mythologize. Banking officials and PhD anthropologists are not the toiling masses I remember.
| 418 |
CuriousLurker Thu, Dec 5, 2013 9:00:40am |
re: #414 Dr. Matt
Yep, sounds about par for the course.
419 |
ObserverArt Thu, Dec 5, 2013 9:02:05am |
Just wanted to wish all those US residents that will be affected by the ice/snow storm hitting the mid-belt of the country they stay safe and warm. Sounds like many areas could be hit with anywhere from .5” to 1” of ice and then have the temps dip lower. Nothing worse than having power go out and then face sub freezing temps. There is nothing worse than ice. Not a damn thing goes well in ice storms, Yuck! We seem to get one or two a year in central Ohio anymore.
And to Backwoods Sleuth…I imagine your husband will be on watch due to his work. But I see you may be under the burden of ice storms too. Good luck to you both…hopefully it will not be as bad as they are predicting.
Stay safe all!
| 420 |
Decatur Deb Thu, Dec 5, 2013 9:02:58am |
re: #415 Lord of the Pies
HURR HURR HIS GRANDMA WAS A BANK PRESIDENT AND A COMMUNIST!!!!!!11!!!
Put that in a moonbat font in my honor. Obama’s economic message has been specifically to preserve the middle class from the start. Hardly a Wobbly.
421 |
EmmaAnne Thu, Dec 5, 2013 9:03:32am |
re: #299 Eclectic Cyborg
Offered without comment:
The rising generation has been called the laziest, rudest, most entitled kids in history.
Uh huh. Every rising generation has been called the laziest, rudest, most entitled kids in history.
| 422 |
Sol Berdinowitz Thu, Dec 5, 2013 9:03:46am |
re: #417 Decatur Deb
Let’s not re-mythologize. Banking officials and PhD anthropologists are not the toiling masses I remember.
“Non-priveleged” was the word, not underprivileged in the sense of the toiling masses, just not upper-class, private-boarding-school, people-bending-over-to-ingratiate-themselves-to-your-parents privileged.
| 423 |
Lord of the Pies Thu, Dec 5, 2013 9:04:07am |
re: #420 Decatur Deb
Put that in a moonbat font in my honor. Obama’s economic message has been specifically to preserve the middle class from the start. Hardly a Wobbly.
I put it in wingnut font because THAT’S WHAT WINGNUTS ARE ACTUALLY SAYING.
| 424 |
Decatur Deb Thu, Dec 5, 2013 9:04:08am |
re: #421 EmmaAnne
Uh huh. >Every rising generation has been called the laziest, rudest, most entitled kids in history.
Don’t even get me started on the grandkids…
| 425 |
chadu Thu, Dec 5, 2013 9:04:46am |
O/T, but in case you didn’t see it: new Page.
| 426 |
Decatur Deb Thu, Dec 5, 2013 9:05:45am |
re: #422 Sol Berdinowitz
“Non-priveleged” was the word, not underprivileged in the sense of the toiling masses, just not upper-class, private-boarding-school, people-bending-over-to-ingratiate-themselves-to-your-parents privileged.
Your privilege zone starts higher than mine.
| 428 |
Decatur Deb Thu, Dec 5, 2013 9:08:33am |
re: #423 Lord of the Pies
I put it in wingnut font because THAT’S WHAT WINGNUTS ARE ACTUALLY SAYING.
It’s what old lefties are saying in #417.
| 429 |
Dr. Matt Thu, Dec 5, 2013 9:11:07am |
What Bashir said compared to the statements from Teatards:
About Wendy Davis: Abortion Barbie,
About President Obama: He’s a Skinny, Ghetto Crackhead,
About President Obama: He’s a government nig***
About Sandra Fluke: It makes her a slut, right? It makes her a prostitute.
About transgendered: you should all be put in a camp
About Democratic women: Their vaginas are a death sentence.
I can write up a second dissertation…..
| 430 |
Lord of the Pies Thu, Dec 5, 2013 9:12:38am |
re: #429 Dr. Matt
What Bashir said compared to the statements from Teatards:
About Wendy Davis: Abortion Barbie,
About President Obama: He’s a Skinny, Ghetto Crackhead,
About President Obama: He’s a government nig***
About Sandra Fluke: It makes her a slut, right? It makes her a prostitute.
About transgendered: you should all be put in a camp
About Democratic women: Their vaginas are a death sentence.
I can write up a second dissertation…..
About Michelle Obama: She’s fat, a ghetto moocher
| 431 |
ObserverArt Thu, Dec 5, 2013 9:16:24am |
A comment about the original topic of this thread.
Remember when everyone was told communism was bad because only those in power would benefit and all the workers that bought into that socialism/communism stuff would be held down by the men in power?
Yeah, that.
So, does capitalism have the same problems? It is an ‘ism’ and they are only as good as the practice and morality behind them. Seems to me with the recent big gains by the capitalist in power they are the ones benefiting and everyone else is still held down by those with the power.
I guess the big difference is the power in communism resides in the power of the state/government and the power in capitalism (as it is currently allowed to practice by the state/government) is in private hands with the power of their monies.
But really, in fact is there any damn difference other than one is painted bad the other good? The people in power still have the power, everyone else…nothing for you!
| 432 |
Aqua Obama Thu, Dec 5, 2013 9:29:53am |
Wow, these pop-up EMILY’s list ads are weak. “Demand a apology” from Mitch McConnell? Hey now, I can feel the political landscape shifting beneath my feet.
433 |
Mattand Thu, Dec 5, 2013 9:34:10am |
re: #421 EmmaAnne
Uh huh. >Every rising generation has been called the laziest, rudest, most entitled kids in history.
Thank you. I’ve been saying that to my Gen X peers for a while now, particularly when they start pissing and moaning about Millennials.
It’s about that point that they tell me to shut the fuck up, because I don’t have kids, because I don’t “get” it.
| 434 |
wrenchwench Thu, Dec 5, 2013 9:35:42am |
The Obamas' first Christmas at the @WhiteHouse. #ThrowbackThursday #tbt pic.twitter.com/46EnzgygS6— FLOTUS (@FLOTUS) December 5, 2013
Didn’t they have Maoist ornaments on that tree or something? Ah, good times.
| 435 |
Aqua Obama Thu, Dec 5, 2013 9:36:37am |
re: #433 Mattand
Thank you. I’ve been saying that to my Gen X peers for a while now, particularly when they start pissing and moaning about Millennials.
It’s about that point that they tell me to shut the fuck up, because I don’t have kids, because I don’t “get” it.
But since they have kids, everybody else’s are entitled?
| 436 |
Whack-A-Mole Thu, Dec 5, 2013 9:37:16am |
re: #431 ObserverArt
Capitalism isn’t bad. The problem is ruthless and predatory capitalism, putting short term profits over the long-term health of the system.
But what we’re heading for now goes well beyond capitalism and into the realm of feudalism, only based on the holding of wealth instead of land in this case.
They “grant” us vassals the right to a portion of their wealth in exchange for our labor, but only on their terms, according to their beliefs, and we should be beholden to them, the lords, the “makers” for the privilege of working for them.
| 437 |
Decatur Deb Thu, Dec 5, 2013 9:37:50am |
re: #434 wrenchwench
[Embedded content]
Didn’t they have Maoist ornaments on that tree or something? Ah, good times.
She looks much healthier now than she did then. He looks much the worse for wear.
| 438 |
Dr. Matt Thu, Dec 5, 2013 9:39:01am |
Tampa council postpones new limit on bar closing times
And this is a lesson on how the Left gets defeated by the Right. Backstory: A member of the Tampa City Council (which is mostly lefties) was proposing a new bill where bars, pubs, etc would have to stop serving alcohol at midnight unless the establishment received a permit to sell until normal closing time (3 am).
| 439 |
Bulworth Thu, Dec 5, 2013 9:39:23am |
re: #434 wrenchwench
I bet it’s a secret Shariah Law Muslim tree. //
| 441 |
Aqua Obama Thu, Dec 5, 2013 9:40:49am |
WHY DID OBAMA CUT DOWN THIS OBVIOUSLY SUCCESSFUL TREE
| 442 |
Lord of the Pies Thu, Dec 5, 2013 9:41:24am |
HURR HURR DEMOCRATS IS TEH REAL RACISTS!!!!!
HOW DO U LIBS LIKE MY OBAMACARE AD?
not embedding, click at your own risk.
| 443 |
wrenchwench Thu, Dec 5, 2013 9:42:25am |
re: #437 Decatur Deb
She looks much healthier now than she did then. He looks much the worse for wear.
They should trade jobs for a few months. Or starting in 2016 or so.
| 444 |
Mattand Thu, Dec 5, 2013 9:44:01am |
re: #435 Aqua Obama
But since they have kids, everybody else’s are entitled?
Heh.
More like their fucking memories got wiped out when their first kids came along.
I distinctly remember reading all the bullshit stories 20 years ago about how my generation was supposedly rudderless and apathetic. Stories written by baby boomers whose WW2-era parents shit all over them for wanting to do their own thing.
Of course, watching my peers start to morph into Archie Bunker clones hasn’t been all that encouraging.
| 445 |
Mattand Thu, Dec 5, 2013 9:45:10am |
Oh, this should be fun:
TPM: John Boehner: GOP Should Support Openly Gay Candidates
What’s the over/under on the walk back? I say 3PM tomorrow.
| 446 |
Aqua Obama Thu, Dec 5, 2013 9:46:08am |
And this is why there will always be angry old Republicans. At least half the population turns into Bob Dole.
| 447 |
Skip Intro Thu, Dec 5, 2013 9:52:29am |
re: #445 Mattand
Oh, this should be fun:
TPM: John Boehner: GOP Should Support Openly Gay Candidates
What’s the over/under on the walk back? I say 3PM tomorrow.
The call from Limbaugh’s people has already been made. Expect Boner to apologize and grovel before Pills in the next day or so.
| 448 |
Decatur Deb Thu, Dec 5, 2013 9:52:33am |
re: #443 wrenchwench
They should trade jobs for a few months. Or starting in 2016 or so.
Wife and I often said we were working to elect the wrong Obama. There’s the American Story. 2016 is (meh) Hillary’s. Then we wait and see if Elizabeth Warren reaches maturity before she ages out.
| 449 |
lawhawk Thu, Dec 5, 2013 9:54:17am |
At least they're not calling him Obama's Katrina Pope. Yet. RT @TheObamaDiary Greatest. Ever. Fox. Headline. pic.twitter.com/lMRQ9Zm5v0— Karen DaltonBeninato (@kbeninato) December 5, 2013
| 450 |
RealityBasedSteve Thu, Dec 5, 2013 9:55:26am |
re: #445 Mattand
Oh, this should be fun:
TPM: John Boehner: GOP Should Support Openly Gay Candidates
What’s the over/under on the walk back? I say 3PM tomorrow.
Give me 10 on the under…
RBS
| 451 |
Sol Berdinowitz Thu, Dec 5, 2013 9:56:23am |
If the GOP were not so fundamentalist and homophobic, I am sure they could attract a lot of gays to their tax policies: remember, gays tend not to have access to the sort of tax breaks and deferments that families get, and because they do not have their careers sidelined by raising kids, they have a lot more disposable and taxable income.
But only a myopic and self-loathing gay would have anything to do with the modern GOP
| 452 |
Ian G. Thu, Dec 5, 2013 9:56:39am |
re: #449 lawhawk
Great. Hopefully, any chance the GOP ever had of getting the majority of Catholics on their side will be over. We’ll see Rick Santorum and Dinesh D’Souza create their own supply-side Jesus breakaway sect soon enough.
453 |
calochortus Thu, Dec 5, 2013 9:58:28am |
re: #451 Sol Berdinowitz
If the GOP were not so fundamentalist and homophobic, I am sure they could attract a lot of gays to their tax policies: remember, gays tend not to have access to the sort of tax breaks and deferments that families get, and because they do not have their careers sidelined by raising kids, they have a lot more disposable and taxable income.
But only a myopic and self-loathing gay would have anything to do with the modern GOP
Maybe, but since when do gays not have families?
| 454 |
Mattand Thu, Dec 5, 2013 9:59:33am |
re: #447 Skip Intro
The call from Limbaugh’s people has already been made. Expect Boner to apologize and grovel before Pills in the next day or so.
Major LOL at “Pills”.
| 455 |
First As Tragedy, Then As Farce Thu, Dec 5, 2013 10:01:03am |
re: #408 Lord of the Pies
No you dumbass, the Waltons got there by inheriting.
[Embedded content]
And/or by “accidentally” releasing home-made porn tapes to the internet…
| 456 |
ObserverArt Thu, Dec 5, 2013 10:01:58am |
re: #436 Whack-A-Mole
Capitalism isn’t bad. The problem is ruthless and predatory capitalism, putting short term profits over the long-term health of the system.
But what we’re heading for now goes well beyond capitalism and into the realm of feudalism, only based on the holding of wealth instead of land in this case.
They “grant” us vassals the right to a portion of their wealth in exchange for our labor, but only on their terms, according to their beliefs, and we should be beholden to them, the lords, the “makers” for the privilege of working for them.
Can we also say that communism/socialism also isn’t bad, the problem with them too is ruthless and predatory forms of them?
That is not meant as a dig at you. What you are saying is what I was saying, they are only as good as their implementation and the morality of their practice.
The rest of your comment could also be used to explain the bad in communism too.
And I am not saying I am for communism or socialism, just that the results of the practice of capitalism gets the majority of people in the same situation socially and politically as what happened in communistic countries.
Beliefs are good, and all beliefs can be used to corral people into thinking the belief benefits them when in fact it may not. Saying capitalism good communism/socialism bad is way too simple and I think wingnut types fail to see the forest due to the trees. They believe the system yet fail to see they too are victims of the system.
457 |
jaunte Thu, Dec 5, 2013 10:02:13am |
re: #449 lawhawk
The ongoing conservative purity test is getting a little silly when the Pope can’t pass.
| 458 |
Mattand Thu, Dec 5, 2013 10:02:15am |
re: #449 lawhawk
Pope is the Catholic Church’s Obama—God help us
Oh, so he causes people’s racial bigotry to come screaming to the surface because they can’t deal with the fact we elected an African-American leader?
| 459 |
Sol Berdinowitz Thu, Dec 5, 2013 10:02:29am |
re: #453 calochortus
Maybe, but since when do gays not have families?
since they lost the ability to procreate with their own gender. I said that they tend not to, most of the gay couples I know are childless.
| 460 |
ObserverArt Thu, Dec 5, 2013 10:04:35am |
re: #454 Mattand
Major LOL at “Pills”.
I liked that one too.
I’d maybe add a ‘Big’ to it as in Big Pills Limbaugh.
| 461 |
Bulworth Thu, Dec 5, 2013 10:05:09am |
Michelle Malkin’s Twitter bio says she is a “Rah Rah American” which is all you need to know about how much better an American she is than you or me.
//
| 462 |
ObserverArt Thu, Dec 5, 2013 10:05:40am |
re: #457 jaunte
The ongoing conservative purity test is getting a little silly when the Pope can’t pass.
And yet Big Pills Limbaugh gives himself a passing grade. Go figure.
| 463 |
Sol Berdinowitz Thu, Dec 5, 2013 10:05:53am |
re: #461 Bulworth
Michelle Malkin’s Twitter bio says she is a “Rah Rah American” which is all you need to know about how much better an American she is than you or me.
//
Only mindless chauvinism is True Patriotism
| 464 |
Stoatly Thu, Dec 5, 2013 10:05:58am |
Went for a bike ride to check out the windy conditions here and pick up some stuff, didn’t seem too bad apart from a tangle with a small fallen branch (lucky it didn’t go through the spokes) and someone’s recycling bin sailing past me down the middle of the road. Got back to find two sections of fence down.
Disappointingly I couldn’t manage to cycle with the wind for any distance - I’ve done that before in high winds and it’s quite surreal to cycle as fast as possible paradoxically without wind-noise in the ears
People being evacuated in nearby coastal areas in anticipation of the storm surge :/
| 465 |
Dark_Falcon Thu, Dec 5, 2013 10:08:24am |
re: #456 ObserverArt
No, we might be able to say that about scoialism, but communism has in practice always become predatory and totalitarian. As such Communism is malum in se, meaning that it is bad in and of itself.
| 466 |
Sol Berdinowitz Thu, Dec 5, 2013 10:10:11am |
re: #465 Dark_Falcon
anything but unregulated, unfettered free-market capitalism is Socialism, which is just a preliminary stage for totalitarian communism.
Now get back to work.
| 467 |
Feline Fearless Leader Thu, Dec 5, 2013 10:10:53am |
re: #444 Mattand
Heh.
More like their fucking memories got wiped out when their first kids came along.
I distinctly remember reading all the bullshit stories 20 years ago about how my generation was supposedly rudderless and apathetic. Stories written by baby boomers whose WW2-era parents shit all over them for wanting to do their own thing.
Of course, watching my peers start to morph into Archie Bunker clones hasn’t been all that encouraging.
The CDC should get on that. There could be a previously unknown virus or prion responsible.
:p
| 468 |
Lord of the Pies Thu, Dec 5, 2013 10:11:30am |
WTFITS
Cut out all the #welfare crap and $7.50 would be a #LivingWage #lnyhbt #teaparty— Shyanne Wolf (@ShyanneWolf1) December 5, 2013
| 469 |
Kragar Thu, Dec 5, 2013 10:11:51am |
I’m still waiting for “trickle down” economics to kick in.
| 470 |
ObserverArt Thu, Dec 5, 2013 10:11:56am |
re: #465 Dark_Falcon
No, we might be able to say that about scoialism, but communism has in practice always become predatory and totalitarian. As such Communism is malum in se, meaning that it is bad in and of itself.
Forget the words Dark…I am discussing results. My point is the terms/words get in the way and are used to scare people.
| 471 |
Bulworth Thu, Dec 5, 2013 10:13:48am |
| 474 |
Bulworth Thu, Dec 5, 2013 10:15:06am |
re: #463 Sol Berdinowitz
The only True Patriotism is that Patriotism that hates 47% of your fellow countrymen. //
| 475 |
calochortus Thu, Dec 5, 2013 10:16:38am |
re: #459 Sol Berdinowitz
since they lost the ability to procreate with their own gender. I said that they tend not to, most of the gay couples I know are childless.
Perhaps there is a skew towards childlessness, but I know gay couples with kids and hetero couples without, and now that we have same sex marriage, I think there will be more families with kids. Artificial insemination, adoption, the ‘old fashioned way’ from a previous relationship-they all work.
| 476 |
Lord of the Pies Thu, Dec 5, 2013 10:16:50am |
Why do I always pick the most fucked up wingnuts to chat with on Teh Twitters?
| 477 |
Feline Fearless Leader Thu, Dec 5, 2013 10:17:31am |
re: #476 Lord of the Pies
Why do I always pick the most fucked up wingnuts to chat with on Teh Twitters?
To suck their conservative souls out for your pies. Of course.
| 478 |
ObserverArt Thu, Dec 5, 2013 10:17:56am |
To further my point…
I’m pretty sure the word ‘capitalism’ was distorted to scare people under communist rule into believing communism was a better answer.
And on the flip side, communism as a term is used to scare people into thinking capitalism is the better answer.
| 479 |
calochortus Thu, Dec 5, 2013 10:18:41am |
re: #477 Feline Fearless Leader
Soul pies? I think those souls would make a very bitter pie.
| 480 |
Lord of the Pies Thu, Dec 5, 2013 10:18:42am |
re: #477 Feline Fearless Leader
To suck their conservative souls out for your pies. Of course.
Ewww who would eat a pie of conservative souls? Even Cthulhu would gag.
| 481 |
darthstar Thu, Dec 5, 2013 10:19:17am |
Greatest. Ever. Fox. Headline. #WarOnPope #WarOnObama #WarOnAllGoodThings pic.twitter.com/DniaPTdNxN— TheObamaDiary.com (@TheObamaDiary) December 5, 2013
| 482 |
Decatur Deb Thu, Dec 5, 2013 10:19:43am |
re: #476 Lord of the Pies
Why do I always pick the most fucked up wingnuts to chat with on Teh Twitters?
The character limit does favor the monosyllabic.
| 483 |
darthstar Thu, Dec 5, 2013 10:20:38am |
@DCPlod Lesson 47: “That time of the month?” And Other Debate No-Nos. Lesson 48: Leaving seat up is not the same as holding a door open.— Sean McCabe (@darthstar99) December 5, 2013
| 484 |
Whack-A-Mole Thu, Dec 5, 2013 10:24:53am |
re: #456 ObserverArt
I don’t disagree with you. Any system can and, without sufficient checks will devolve into an oppressive state. But, overall, I think capitalism was doing an okay job until the IGMFY attitude permeated the system and we gave the “gots” such overwhelming access to the levers of power.
| 485 |
darthstar Thu, Dec 5, 2013 10:26:28am |
Just a cute raccoon in a christmas jumper. pic.twitter.com/DSiTbYyGnW— Cute Emergency (@CuteEmergency) December 5, 2013
| 486 |
Feline Fearless Leader Thu, Dec 5, 2013 10:31:44am |
re: #479 calochortus
Soul pies? I think those souls would make a very bitter pie.
Raw coffee and raw chocolate are pretty bitter as well. There must be some further processing involved of course.
| 487 |
CuriousLurker Thu, Dec 5, 2013 10:56:44am |
re: #373 Political Atheist
Is this one of those advocacy sites, never to be trusted?
re: #388 wrenchwench
My 10 minute analysis says conservative, but not necessarily unreasonable.
Any connection to ALEC always makes me leery, but I suppose it doesn’t totally discredit them considering they’ve been around for 75+ years:
Tax Foundation
The Tax Foundation is the oldest non-profit tax think tank in the country, founded in 1937. Their stated mission is “to educate taxpayers about sound tax policy and the size of the tax burden borne by Americans at all levels of government.” It also argues for a tax system characterized by “simplicity”, “neutrality”, “stability”, “transparency” and “growth-promotion”. […]
Ties to the American Legislative Exchange Council
The Tax Foundation’s President, Scott A. Hodge, participated in the 2011 American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC) Annual Meeting, speaking on the “Corporate Taxes and International Competitiveness Panel” in front of the Tax and Fiscal Policy Task Force, and the Foundation’s Vice President of Legal and State Projects, Joe Henchman, introduced the “Resolution Urging Congress to Cut the Federal Corporate Tax Rate” model policy at the same meeting. […]
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