1 Zamb  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 12:51:37pm

Seriously even an evangelical acquaintance on Facebook agrees that a&e was right to can him. Statements like this reflect badly on the whole. No company is going to let the people that work for them alienate large groups of potential customers.

2 aagcobb  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 12:51:56pm

We should have a contest to determine the dumbest outrageous outrage of 2013. This one could be a contender.

3 Charles Johnson  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 12:55:13pm
4 HappyWarrior  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 12:56:56pm

re: #2 aagcobb

We should have a contest to determine the dumbest outrageous outrage of 2013. This one could be a contender.

Year is young heh but yes the fact that people are more outraged by this than the reports of Assad using gas on his own people in Syria has me deeply worried about my countrymen.

5 jaunte  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 12:57:12pm

6 lawhawk  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 12:57:18pm

Black people had it so good; they had their own water fountains. -Stephen Colbert

7 Aunty Entity Dragon  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:02:29pm

The hategasm against GLBT people and ‘libruls’ on FB and the right wing websites is…impressive.

Of course, dependable defender of red blooded ‘Murkan values, Rod Dreher…says that Phil Robertson is complicated...

In Praise Of Phil Robertson’s American Wilderness
By Rod Dreher • December 20, 2013, 2:10 PM

A reader who wrote about l’affaire du canard:

Robertson’s comment aren’t “cringeworthy.” They are simply an echo of what Leon Kass also found out, “While he was a medical student, he met and married his wife of nearly 52 years, the classics scholar Amy Kass. The couple went on to Boston, where he completed an internal-medicine internship and earned a biochemistry Ph.D. at Harvard.

“A funny thing happened to me in graduate school,” he recalls. “My wife and I spent part of the summer of 1965 in Mississippi doing civil-rights work.” The couple lived with a black farmer in Mount Olive, Miss., in a home that had no toilet or indoor plumbing. “I came back from this place with this conundrum: Why was there more honor, goodness and decency in these unschooled black farmers than I found in my fellow graduate students at Harvard, whose enlightened and liberal opinions I shared?”

The answer, he eventually concluded, was that his black hosts displayed “the dignity of honest work and religion”—things he didn’t often find among his highly educated peers, most of whom “were only looking out for Number One.”

Like TNC said over at The Atlantic:

“The belief that black people were at their best when they were being hunted down like dogs for the sin of insisting on citizenship is a persistent strain of thought in this country.”

8 Political Atheist  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:03:18pm

Duck star eats crow!

Headline I’d love to see.

9 ObserverArt  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:04:55pm

re: #2 aagcobb

We should have a contest to determine the dumbest outrageous outrage of 2013. This one could be a contender.

We’d be doin’ The Limbo. How low can we go? Get out your poles and your polls.

And of course some Chubby Checker doin’ The Limbo Rock. “Jack be nimble, Jack be quick, Jack go under the limbo stick!

Youtube Video

10 b.d.  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:05:57pm

re: #2 aagcobb

We should have a contest to determine the dumbest outrageous outrage of 2013. This one could be a contender.

The closing of the WWII Memorial during the shutdown poutrage was pretty over the top too.

11 Amory Blaine  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:06:49pm

Gaah! Water main broke down the street, no water. We just got a new road too.

12 HappyWarrior  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:07:59pm

re: #10 b.d.

The closing of the WWII Memorial during the shutdown poutrage was pretty over the top too.

Yeah that one was stupid. Again it showed the utter lack of priorities people have. I mean I get that the tourists were upset but I felt worse for the people who had their medicare and social security delayed by the shutdown. But then again I am not a lacking perspective imbecile.

13 Eclectic Cyborg  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:08:21pm

Dear Morons,

Please show me how at ANY POINT during this mess Phil Robertson has NOT been permitted to express his religious views.

Not to mention, the 1st Amendment does NOT APPLY to dealings with a private company.

Sincerely,
A sane man

14 jaunte  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:11:04pm
15 Eclectic Cyborg  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:12:05pm

HE DIDN’T GET FIRED!!

16 Eclectic Cyborg  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:12:13pm

Ok, I feel better now.

17 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:13:03pm

re: #16 Eclectic Cyborg

Ok, I feel better now.

Maybe we should just exile him somewhere. How about Sudbury?

18 HappyWarrior  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:13:17pm

re: #14 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Yeah no kidding. All I’ve said is that A&E was within their rights to fire him but I feel the same way about Martin Bashir.

19 erik_t  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:13:34pm

re: #10 b.d.

The closing of the WWII Memorial during the shutdown poutrage was pretty over the top too.

That’s true, but at least that was tangentially related to something that actually matters.

We’re not even talking about whatshisname Palin-disliking media guy, who opened his dumb mouth and got his ass fired. We’re talking about a reality TV “star”.

It’s a stupid argument being advanced by stupid people about a fundamentally stupid topic. The trifecta of poutrage, if you will.

20 jaunte  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:13:55pm

WTF Friday: Defending Creationalism

21 ObserverArt  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:14:17pm

As far as stupid outrageous outrages the media even mentioning “selfie-gate” and talking about the President and the Danish Prime Minister taking a smart phone pic at the Mandela memorial service is pretty stupid.

And then there was Fox woman getting all cranky about a beer-can festivus tree getting in the way of her kids seeing a damn nativity scene.

And then…oh dear…this is going to take some time. So much to consider.

Let’s go to the Fox News tapes…

22 HappyWarrior  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:14:29pm

All this fucking outrage over a suspension and the guy’s going to get even more profits because of the free publicity this generated. I imagine Phil and the rest of the Robertsons are laughing at the poor fools who think they’re victims. I don’t know if he planned this or not but it certainly wasn’t a bad business move.

23 erik_t  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:14:54pm

The only way this could possibly be dumber is if this Scrooge McBeardDuck character was talking about the theoretical ethnicity of Santa Claus.

24 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:15:21pm

re: #19 erik_t

That’s true, but at least that was tangentially related to something that actually matters.

We’re not even talking about whatshisname Palin-disliking media guy, who opened his dumb mouth and got his ass fired. We’re talking about a reality TV “star”.

It’s a stupid argument being advanced by stupid people about a fundamentally stupid topic. The trifecta of poutrage, if you will.

But isn’t the RWNJ flipping their lids about something unreal essentially SOP?

25 HappyWarrior  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:15:58pm

re: #24 Feline Fearless Leader

But isn’t the RWNJ flipping their lids about something unreal essentially SOP?

They wouldn’t be RWNJs if they didn’t so yeah.

26 Targetpractice  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:16:10pm

re: #15 Eclectic Cyborg

>HE DIDN’T GET FIRED!!

Yeah, I can’t repeat that enough, the man’s not been fired. He’s been put in the television equivalent of the time out chair, told he has to sit there until either A&E feels the heat has died down or he decides to leave the show. Even the family has not been so stupid as to claim he was fired.

27 Amory Blaine  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:16:47pm

Where’s pepper spray cop when you need him?

28 lawhawk  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:19:43pm

re: #27 Amory Blaine

Where’s pepper spray cop when you need him?

He’s serving a time out, and is on disability. /oh wait… he actually is on disability.

29 b.d.  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:20:52pm

re: #2 aagcobb

We should have a contest to determine the dumbest outrageous outrage of 2013. This one could be a contender.

OBAMA LEAVING OUT “GOD” FROM TEH GETTYSBURG ADDRESS!!/1! was a doozie too.

30 HappyWarrior  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:21:17pm

re: #28 lawhawk

He’s serving a time out, and is on disability. /oh wait… he actually is on disability.

I can’t believe he got damages for PTSD suffering. Crazy world where a guy who pepper sprays a bunch of college kids can paint himself as a victim but then again this is a world where anti-gay bigots think people calling them bigots are the bullies and the people who want to treat other people like second class citizens are the victims.

31 HappyWarrior  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:21:47pm

re: #29 b.d.

OBAMA LEAVING OUT “GOD” FROM TEH GETTYSBURG ADDRESS!!/1! was a doozie too.

Yeah I forgot about that one. And to go with that one, there was screetching about Obama not being at Gettysburg.

32 Charles Johnson  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:22:06pm
33 Dr. Matt  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:23:06pm

If A&E and Duck Dynasty part terms, there are many other homes for such “quality” broadcasting:

34 b.d.  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:23:48pm

re: #31 HappyWarrior

Yeah I forgot about that one. And to go with that one, there was screetching about Obama not being at Gettysburg.

White Jesus, White Santa storm was pretty terrific too. The wingnuts really showed their asses this year.

35 Targetpractice  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:23:50pm

Seriously, the timing of events, so that the uproar of Phil’s suspension falls in time for the last shopping weekend before Christmas, leaves me with no other conclusion that this was a publicity stunt. Whether the family was in on A&E’s plans or not, this stinks of a blatant cash grab. Phil gets to vent his spleen, A&E gets to look like the “good guys” for a few days, the Robertsons get a boost in popularity, and all their merchandise sells out in “solidarity.” In a few days, A&E will announce that they’d “negotiated” his return to the show, the outrage will have died out, and that’ll be that.

36 Bulworth  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:24:06pm

re: #22 HappyWarrior

The cultural warriors don’t actually care about this Robertson guy. But the distinction between First Amendment not First Amendment, suspended or fired, is lost on them because to them the issue is someone spoke bad about teh gay and suffered a penalty from it, which means that they, too, could be penalized for saying something about teh gay and get thrown in the FEMA death panel trailer camps, etc.

37 Kragar  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:24:14pm

Utah SSM challenge news

38 Amory Blaine  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:24:25pm

Exploitation.

39 AlexRogan  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:24:45pm

re: #22 HappyWarrior

All this fucking outrage over a suspension and the guy’s going to get even more profits because of the free publicity this generated. I imagine Phil and the rest of the Robertsons are laughing at the poor fools who think they’re victims. I don’t know if he planned this or not but it certainly wasn’t a bad business move.

As they swim in their Scrooge McDuck-sized vault of cash.

40 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:24:50pm

re: #35 Targetpractice

Seriously, the timing of events, so that the uproar of Phil’s suspension falls in time for the last shopping weekend before Christmas, leaves me with no other conclusion that this was a publicity stunt. Whether the family was in on A&E’s plans or not, this stinks of a blatant cash grab. Phil gets to vent his spleen, A&E gets to look like the “good guys” for a few days, the Robertsons get a boost in popularity, and all their merchandise sells out in “solidarity.” In a few days, A&E will announce that they’d “negotiated” his return to the show, the outrage will have died out, and that’ll be that.

Then the NRA can contract him to do an interview and talk about the government grabbing all the guns and ammo.
////

41 Bulworth  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:25:23pm

re: #31 HappyWarrior

That was going to bring down his presidency as was IRS/NSA/Benghazi/Healthcare.govscandals, etc. !!!1

42 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:25:48pm

re: #36 Bulworth

The cultural warriors don’t actually care about this Robertson guy. But the distinction between First Amendment not First Amendment, suspended or fired, is lost on them because to them the issue is someone spoke bad about teh gay and suffered a penalty from it, which means that they, too, could be penalized for saying something about teh gay and get thrown in the FEMA death panel trailer camps, etc.

Basically upset about one of “theirs” getting criticized for being a dick.

43 Kragar  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:26:02pm

From the decision:

The State of Utah has provided no evidence that opposite-sex marriage will be affected inany way by same-sex marriage. In the absence of such evidence, the State’s unsupported fears and speculations are insufficient to justify the State’s refusal to dignify the family relationships of its gay and lesbian citizens. Moreover, the Constitution protects the Plaintiffs’ fundamental rights, which include the right to marry and the right to have that marriage recognized by their government. These rights would be meaningless if the Constitution did not also prevent the government from interfering with the intensely personal choices an individual makes when that person decides to make a solemn commitment to another human being. The Constitution therefore protects the choice of one’s partner for all citizens, regardless of their sexual identity.

44 aagcobb  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:26:47pm

re: #37 Kragar

Utah SSM challenge news

[Embedded content]

Wow, this is huge.

45 Targetpractice  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:26:51pm

re: #43 Kragar

From the decision:

And the walls come tumbling down…

46 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:26:53pm

re: #39 AlexRogan

As they swim in their Scrooge McDuck-sized vault of cash.

Wouldn’t Scrooge McDuck be upset about their line of business? Pimping, and then shooting the johns (drakes) who show up?
//

47 Kragar  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:29:00pm
48 aagcobb  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:29:02pm

re: #45 Targetpractice

And the walls come tumbling down…

Utah is number 18! I scrolled to the end, and it looks like he just made ssm immediately legal in Utah, at least until the state can get his order blocked.

49 Lidane  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:29:23pm

re: #43 Kragar

The State of Utah has provided no evidence that opposite-sex marriage will be affected inany way by same-sex marriage.

That’s because there aren’t any valid arguments against gay marriage. They all come down to religious freakouts or personal discomfort with gay people, and that’s not good enough.

50 AlexRogan  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:29:31pm

re: #46 Feline Fearless Leader

Wouldn’t Scrooge McDuck be upset about their line of business? Pimping, and then shooting the johns (drakes) who show up?
//

Shit, it’s probably his vault they’d be swimming in cash in…that is, after they shot him.

/

51 Stanley Sea  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:30:44pm

re: #12 HappyWarrior

Yeah that one was stupid. Again it showed the utter lack of priorities people have. I mean I get that the tourists were upset but I felt worse for the people who had their medicare and social security delayed by the shutdown. But then again I am not a lacking perspective imbecile.

Add that to the Sister Sarah Ambulance Chase list.

52 Targetpractice  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:31:05pm

re: #49 Lidane

That’s because there aren’t any valid arguments against gay marriage. They all come down to religious freakouts or personal discomfort with gay people, and that’s not good enough.

See also: Loving v. Virginia, where SCOTUS ultimately had to conclude that the basis of miscegenation bans was racism, not science or social order, and that was not enough to deny people a fundamental right.

53 EPR-radar  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:31:27pm

re: #43 Kragar

Few things are as entertaining as seeing how well anti-gay BS talking points fare in court these days.

54 Targetpractice  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:31:53pm

re: #51 Stanley Sea

Add that to the Sister Sarah Ambulance Chase list.

Caribou Barbie has not yet found a bandwagon she’s unwilling to jump on.

55 lawhawk  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:33:04pm

re: #37 Kragar


The legal reasoning is similar to how NM Supreme Court ruled - particularly the part about how procreation is not a defining characteristic of marriage from a legal and constitutional point of view. The State attempted, and failed, to distinguish post-menapausal women from gays and lesbians in their inability to procreate.

I’d further note that men who have certain ailments are also unable to procreate (low sperm count, injuries, age, ED, etc.) but are not prohibited from marrying in a hetero- relationship. That goes to the crux of the argument based on procreation. It just doesn’t stand up to (intermediate) scrutiny.

56 erik_t  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:34:26pm

re: #4 erik_t

Hell, four five different states have provided for gay marriage since Minnesota enacted their same-sex marriage statute.

THAT WAS 140 141 DAYS AGO.

I… posted that yesterday.

57 Targetpractice  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:34:47pm

re: #55 lawhawk

[Embedded content]


The legal reasoning is similar to how NM Supreme Court ruled - particularly the part about how procreation is not a defining characteristic of marriage from a legal and constitutional point of view. The State attempted, and failed, to distinguish post-menapausal women from gays and lesbians in their inability to procreate.

I’d further note that men who have certain ailments are also unable to procreate (low sperm count, injuries, age, ED, etc.) but are not prohibited from marrying in a hetero- relationship. That goes to the crux of the argument based on procreation. It just doesn’t stand up to (intermediate) scrutiny.

Two courts in two days reaching virtually the same conclusion. Back to SCOTUS we go?

58 Shiplord Kirel  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:34:50pm

59 Targetpractice  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:36:03pm

re: #58 Shiplord Kirel

[Embedded image]

Hell, until he actually is fired, he’s not really had anything done to him besides being told he can’t be in the show for an episode or two, however long A&E wants him to serve out his suspension. Martin Bashir wishes he could have gotten off that easy.

60 Amory Blaine  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:37:25pm

re: #54 Targetpractice

Caribou Barbie has not yet found a bandwagon she’s unwilling to jump on.

That playset comes with Big Gulp cups.

61 lawhawk  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:39:16pm

re: #57 Targetpractice

It would seem that the UT court waited until the NM Supreme Court ruled so as to add to its own authority justifying the decision. Not particularly surprising that they were handed down within days of each other.

I’m fully expecting the state to appeal to the full 10th Circuit Court of Appeals on route to attempting an appeal to the Supreme Court.

But we now have two courts - one at the state level and a federal court in two separate states within the 10th Circuit finding the same way. Similar grounds, and both eviscerate the procreation argument as foundation for marriage.

62 Pie-onist Overlord  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:40:08pm

It’s time to sign off the Shabbat, so here is a thought from the Mishnah to ponder:

“What is conditional love? That of Amnon for Tamar [VB: Amnon RAPED Tamar]. And unconditional [love]? The love of David and Jonathan.” (Av 5:16)

“And Jonathan’s soul was bound to the soul of David, and Jonathan loved him like his own soul” (I Shmuel 18:1). The love of David and Jonathan was an expression of the intrinsic love of the closest of friends, who love each other as if they share the same soul. Just as a person loves his own soul (as the source of his life) so he loves his friend.

Toras Chaim, Shemos p. 363b; Sha’arei Teshuvah vol. 1, p. 55b (3)

“Any love that is conditional, will cease when the condition upon which it depends vanishes. But if it is unconditional, it will never cease.”

Unconditional love transcends reasoning and comprehension. It is of the essence of the soul - for the essence of the soul loves, and longs to cleave to, the Infinite One, blessed is He.
Kuntreis HaAvoda p.31 (3)

63 ObserverArt  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:40:37pm

Another outrageous outrage…

Rep. Joe Barton the Obamacare web site code that stated: “you have no expectation of privacy regarding any communication or data transmitting or stored or this site” which no one could grasp was remarked out thus not making it any part of the actual site. He showed his ass pretty thoroughly in that one, and his arrogance that he was so very right as he was so very wrong was a pretty good indication of strident stupidity. A fine trait of many a Republican think-tanker.

(We’re just getting warmed up…lot of stupid outrage to cover in year 13)

64 Amory Blaine  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:40:50pm

They should just follow Gary Busey around again.

65 wrenchwench  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:41:03pm

re: #27 Amory Blaine

Where’s pepper spray cop when you need him?

Celebrating the holidays.

66 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:41:28pm

re: #43 Kragar

From the decision:

You start working through that decision is it seems outright obvious once you start from Loving vs Virginia and also see the state’s arguments trotting the same old grounds about it being a “new” right being demanded, and so forth.

The bit about the procreation requirement is a wonderful piece of legal snark.

67 ObserverArt  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:42:45pm

re: #39 AlexRogan

As they swim in their Scrooge McDuck-sized vault of cash.

Had to upding a reference to Scrooge McDuck in this context. Good work.

You know ol’ Scrooge McDuck answered to a call too. I think Phil has that call doen too. Its called money.

68 Targetpractice  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:42:59pm

re: #61 lawhawk

It would seem that the UT court waited until the NM Supreme Court ruled so as to add to its own authority justifying the decision. Not particularly surprising that they were handed down within days of each other.

I’m fully expecting the state to appeal to the full 10th Circuit Court of Appeals on route to attempting an appeal to the Supreme Court.

But we now have two courts - one at the state level and a federal court in two separate states within the 10th Circuit finding the same way. Similar grounds, and both eviscerate the procreation argument as foundation for marriage.

As a layman, both cases seem to make a strong argument in the vein of Loving that SSM bans are unconstitutional due to marriage being a fundamental right. I’m not sure that there’s any way for the Roberts court to split the baby on this one.

69 Shiplord Kirel  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:45:16pm

Hey, I just told one of our clients that he is a shmuck and we should be charging him extra for having to deal with his half-witted, unkempt, lice infested employees, let alone his moronic, inbred, thieving low life customers. My boss seems to have a problem with this. Fortunately, I have freedom of speech, so I am just going to tell the boss to bug off, that is the price of living in a free country.

70 Joanne  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:45:40pm

re: #37 Kragar

Utah SSM challenge news

Judd Legum @JuddLegum

BOOM “Under the State’s reasoning, a post-menopausal woman or infertile man doesnt have a fundamental right to marry” Scribd Document …

And there is no difference between same-sex couples who choose not to have children and those opposite-sex couples who exercise their constitutionally protected right not to procreate. See Griswold v. Connecticut , 381 U.S. 479 (1965).

As the right-wingers work tirelessly to get Griswold reversed.

71 Dr Lizardo  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:46:55pm

re: #68 Targetpractice

As a layman, both cases seem to make a strong argument in the vein of Loving that SSM bans are unconstitutional due to marriage being a fundamental right. I’m not sure that there’s any way for the Roberts court to split the baby on this one.

Yesterday, I said that one of these days, when the SCOTUS strikes down all anti-SSM marriage laws and state constitutional amendments - and I’m quite confident they will - their ruling will be in the vein of Loving v. Virginia.

This confirms what I’m thinking.

72 AlexRogan  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:47:28pm

re: #37 Kragar

Utah SSM challenge news

re: #47 Kragar

Judge strikes down Utah same-sex marriage ban t.co via @usatoday @BryanJFischer WINNABLE WAR! #tcot #uniteblue

— Kragar (@Kragar_LGF) December 20, 2013

Read more at littlegreenfootballs.com

re: #55 lawhawk

The legal reasoning is similar to how NM Supreme Court ruled - particularly the part about how procreation is not a defining characteristic of marriage from a legal and constitutional point of view. The State attempted, and failed, to distinguish post-menapausal women from gays and lesbians in their inability to procreate.

I’d further note that men who have certain ailments are also unable to procreate (low sperm count, injuries, age, ED, etc.) but are not prohibited from marrying in a hetero- relationship. That goes to the crux of the argument based on procreation. It just doesn’t stand up to (intermediate) scrutiny.

I just wonder how long it’ll take before the Mormon church and associated front groups mount a fresh offensive on this.

73 wrenchwench  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:47:31pm

This guy is getting married in Utah right now!

74 ObserverArt  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:47:55pm

re: #49 Lidane

That’s because there aren’t any valid arguments against gay marriage. They all come down to religious freakouts or personal discomfort with gay people, and that’s not good enough.

Yes. And it is constitutional. Which is going to give idjits like Duck Dynamo real problems because those Bible totin’ forefathers who he praised in the video at the previous main story here at LGF came up with this thing called rights and took away things like discrimination.

75 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:48:06pm

re: #68 Targetpractice

As a layman, both cases seem to make a strong argument in the vein of Loving that SSM bans are unconstitutional due to marriage being a fundamental right. I’m not sure that there’s any way for the Roberts court to split the baby on this one.

Fighting against it essentially went by the wayside once it could no longer be successfully argued in front of the Court that homosexual relations were mentally aberrant.

76 Lidane  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:48:49pm

re: #70 Joanne

As the right-wingers work tirelessly to get Griswold reversed.

Griswold, which gives married couples the right to use birth control.

The nutters don’t think that married couples have the right to use contraception. Let that sink in a while.

77 erik_t  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:49:53pm

Happy freakin’ Friday, everyone.

Gay people married in Utah. What an excellent cap to the week that would be. A fine fresh offensive in the War on Christmas.

I shall mount the battlements post haste.

78 Dr Lizardo  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:50:01pm

re: #75 Feline Fearless Leader

Fighting against it essentially went by the wayside once it could no longer be successfully argued in front of the Court that homosexual relations were mentally aberrant.

Yep.

79 Targetpractice  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:50:50pm

re: #76 Lidane

Griswold, which gives married couples the right to use birth control.

The nutters don’t think that married couples have the right to use contraception. Let that sink in a while.

Of course not, they think there’s only one kind of sex that’s legal, and that’s between married heterosexual couples who intend to procreate. Anything else is against “God’s will” and thus immoral.

80 Joanne  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:51:30pm

re: #76 Lidane

Griswold, which gives married couples the right to use birth control.

The nutters don’t think that married couples have the right to use contraception. Let that sink in a while.

Exactly!

81 AlexRogan  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:51:42pm

re: #65 wrenchwench

Celebrating the holidays.

[Embedded image]

Nice…

82 Joanne  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:53:18pm

re: #79 Targetpractice

Of course not, they think there’s only one kind of sex that’s legal, and that’s between married heterosexual couples who intend to procreate. Anything else is against “God’s will” and thus immoral.

Because them icky wimmens have to be dependent upon their mens…otherwise the wrath of God right-wing social conservatives …something something.

83 wrenchwench  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:53:47pm
84 Ian G.  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:54:15pm

re: #47 Kragar

As a certain Vice President might say, this is a BIG fucking deal.

The damn has burst, as far as I’m concerned. Maybe we’ll have gay marriage in Mississippi within 5 years.

85 Ian G.  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:55:47pm

re: #72 AlexRogan

I just wonder how long it’ll take before the Mormon church and associated front groups mount a fresh offensive on this.

I wonder if the Mormons will just pack it in on this. They took a lot of heat for the shenanigans they pulled in California to get gay marriage (temporarily) banned. They may not want another ugly fight on their hands.

86 b.d.  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:56:20pm

LOL, Yo wingnuts, while you were complaining about the duck guy, Utah happened.

87 wrenchwench  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:56:33pm
88 Eclectic Cyborg  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:56:45pm

re: #84 Ian G.

As a certain Vice President might say, this is a BIG fucking deal.

The damn has burst, as far as I’m concerned. Maybe we’ll have gay marriage in Mississippi within 5 years.

I doubt it. MS, Lousiana, Alabama, Kentucky, Tennessee, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Kansas, Texas, Oklahoma.

I guarantee you that the legalization of SSM in those areas especially as a the result of a Federal decision could lead to an armed revolt.

I wish I was joking.

89 Dr Lizardo  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:57:09pm

re: #84 Ian G.

As a certain Vice President might say, this is a BIG fucking deal.

The damn has burst, as far as I’m concerned. Maybe we’ll have gay marriage in Mississippi within 5 years.

Most likely, you will; I figure by then a landmark SSM case that legalizes it nationwide will have gone through the Supreme Court.

90 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:57:56pm

re: #87 wrenchwench

[Embedded content]

Well, Cher *is* known as something of a gay icon…

91 erik_t  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:58:14pm

I just texted my sister about, in retrospect, the Utah “gay marriage van”.

Damn you, autocorrect.

92 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:59:02pm

re: #91 erik_t

I just texted my sister about, in retrospect, the Utah “gay marriage van”.

Damn you, autocorrect.

Something along the lines of the Scooby Doo Mystery Machine?

93 erik_t  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 1:59:47pm

re: #88 Eclectic Cyborg

I doubt it. MS, Lousiana, Alabama, Kentucky, Tennessee, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Kansas, Texas, Oklahoma.

I guarantee you that the legalization of SSM in those areas especially as a the result of a Federal decision could lead to an armed revolt.

I wish I was joking.

Well-fed people with working televisions like to talk about armed revolt an awful lot more than they like actually revolting.

I’m sure there will be a few isolated morons doing moronic things.

94 Ian G.  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:00:16pm

re: #91 erik_t

I just texted my sister about, in retrospect, the Utah “gay marriage van”.

Damn you, autocorrect.

I’m picturing something like the Chabad “Mitzvah Tanks”, except covered in rainbows and blaring ABBA and traveling down the streets of SLC, ready to grant marriage licenses to any gay couples who ask. LOL!

95 Eclectic Cyborg  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:00:52pm

re: #93 erik_t

Well-fed people with working televisions like to talk about armed revolt an awful lot more than they like actually revolting.

I’m sure there will be a few isolated morons doing moronic things.

I don’t know, I really think it could be a “powder keg” moment, ESPECIALLY if it happens while Obama is still President.

96 erik_t  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:02:56pm

re: #95 Eclectic Cyborg

I don’t know, I really think it could be a “powder keg” moment, ESPECIALLY if it happens while Obama is still President.

The list of things for which there has been serious armed revolt in the United States in the last hundred years, off the top of my head:

*

I’m sure facilities will rightly be on heightened alert. I am not terribly concerned about widespread badness. Not enough young people are too stressed about it. Old people don’t really revolt.

97 wrenchwench  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:03:46pm

re: #92 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce

Something along the lines of the Scooby Doo Mystery Machine?

I’m looking forward to the pairs of cyclists in white short sleeved shirts with black ties, headed for the Temple.

98 Lidane  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:04:09pm

re: #96 erik_t

Old people don’t really revolt.

Scooters are a bitch to maneuver when you’re trying to reload.

99 wrenchwench  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:04:58pm


They’ve gone viral.

100 Kragar  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:05:03pm
101 Kragar  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:06:01pm

re: #98 Lidane

Scooters are a bitch to maneuver when you’re trying to reload.

Got to put it in neutral first.

Image: scooter-mounted-cannon.jpg

102 wrenchwench  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:06:10pm

re: #100 Kragar

Tweetdeck is a whole minute ahead of twitter.com.

103 Lidane  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:07:20pm

re: #2 aagcobb

We should have a contest to determine the dumbest outrageous outrage of 2013. This one could be a contender.

104 Lidane  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:08:31pm

Focused on the important things:

105 Eclectic Cyborg  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:10:29pm

re: #104 Lidane

Focused on the important things:

[Embedded content]

And here come the exceptions!

106 dog philosopher  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:12:34pm

re: #58 Shiplord Kirel

[Embedded image]

it also protects his right to look like a cast member of the lord of the rings

107 HappyWarrior  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:15:51pm

re: #47 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Wow Utah. I would have thought that Utah would be one of the last ones. Anyhow, it’s great how quickly this is happening. Would love to see Virginia’s struck down next.

108 Kragar  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:16:05pm
109 Lidane  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:16:11pm
110 Eclectic Cyborg  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:16:59pm

re: #108 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Man I can’t tell you how cool it was to see that all go down in real time, I mean this happened in a span of what? 90 minutes?

Incredible.

111 Ian G.  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:17:28pm

re: #96 erik_t

The list of things for which there has been serious armed revolt in the United States in the last hundred years, off the top of my head:

*

I’m sure facilities will rightly be on heightened alert. I am not terribly concerned about widespread badness. Not enough young people are too stressed about it. Old people don’t really revolt.

This. There was no armed revolt over the Civil Rights Act, and that was a far more contention issue than gay marriage, howling from the Limbaugh/Palin/Drudge idiot industrial complex notwithstanding.

Also, you need young people in the streets cracking skulls for a fascist revolt to succeed. The only place I see direct action by young people is FOR gay rights (that Catholic school in Washington). Old FOX viewers on blood pressure meds won’t last long in guerrilla conflict.

112 b.d.  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:17:32pm

Maybe they can get Tim Tebow to fill in on Duck Dynasty for the old dude who is in time out? That should make everyone happy.

113 HappyWarrior  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:17:48pm

re: #108 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Congrats to them. Years of happiness.

114 Eclectic Cyborg  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:18:12pm

re: #112 b.d.

Maybe they can get Tim Tebow to fill in on Duck Dynasty for the old dude who is in time out? That should make everyone happy.

What’s he doing these days? Working at Hobby Lobby?

115 wrenchwench  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:19:22pm

re: #108 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Missed it. Damn customers. Leave me alone! I’m trying to watch a wedding on Twitter!

116 wrenchwench  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:20:49pm
117 HappyWarrior  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:21:12pm

re: #111 Ian G.

This. There was no armed revolt over the Civil Rights Act, and that was a far more contention issue than gay marriage, howling from the Limbaugh/Palin/Drudge idiot industrial complex notwithstanding.

Also, you need young people in the streets cracking skulls for a fascist revolt to succeed. The only place I see direct action by young people is FOR gay rights (that Catholic school in Washington). Old FOX viewers on blood pressure meds won’t last long in guerrilla conflict.

Yeah that’s true. American young people even the more conservative inclined ones are left leaning when it comes to issues like this. I remember one of my college roommates. We differed on the economy but he hated the Republican position on marriage equality. Not to say we don’t have homophobes in my generation- we do but they are a minority.

118 Aunty Entity Dragon  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:21:46pm

re: #96 erik_t

The list of things for which there has been serious armed revolt in the United States in the last hundred years, off the top of my head:

*

I’m sure facilities will rightly be on heightened alert. I am not terribly concerned about widespread badness. Not enough young people are too stressed about it. Old people don’t really revolt.

The miner uprising in West Virginia (Battle of Blair Mountain) was pretty serious. Of course, that was over wages and near slavery conditions. The feds actually sent out bombers to attack the miners and supporters…unexploded ordnance was shown in court.

Again in West Virgina in the 70’s, there was a low level armed insurgency in Kanawaha County over “liberal” school books started by fundamentalist Alice Moore. Numerous school and county buildings were dynamited and sniper fire and shotgun attacks directed at school buses along with attempts to have various public officials arrested. Homes of children who continued to go to school were also attacked.

119 erik_t  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:22:35pm

re: #118 Aunty Entity Dragon

I meant to include a “widespread” in there. Likely too late to PIMF.

120 Aunty Entity Dragon  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:23:20pm

re: #111 Ian G.

This. There was no armed revolt over the Civil Rights Act, and that was a far more contention issue than gay marriage, howling from the Limbaugh/Palin/Drudge idiot industrial complex notwithstanding.

Also, you need young people in the streets cracking skulls for a fascist revolt to succeed. The only place I see direct action by young people is FOR gay rights (that Catholic school in Washington). Old FOX viewers on blood pressure meds won’t last long in guerrilla conflict.

You may have missed out on all those church bombings, burnings and lynchings that were still happening around that time in the South.

121 GeneJockey  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:23:34pm

re: #108 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Awwww! Almost makes me wanna cry.

122 Lidane  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:23:43pm
123 wrenchwench  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:24:56pm
124 GeneJockey  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:25:49pm

re: #120 Aunty Entity Dragon

You may have missed out on all those church bombings, burnings and lynchings that were still happening around that time in the South.

There’s a difference between isolated terrorist acts - bad as they are - and the sort of organized, armed insurrection I think we’re talking about. We have an example of that, and strangely enough, it was the same damned states that time!

125 Ian G.  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:26:43pm

re: #120 Aunty Entity Dragon

You may have missed out on all those church bombings, burnings and lynchings that were still happening around that time in the South.

Big difference between (relatively) isolated incidents of violence, and a full blown armed insurrection. And I’m not discounting the possibility of violence by the far right against gay marriage. It’s just not going to be Civil War II.

edit: what Gene Jockey said.

126 Ian G.  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:28:40pm

Anyway, nothing from Fischer’s twitter feed about Utah yet? Maybe he’s having a laugh about it considering he places Mormons just below gays on his hate list (it’s longer than the Oxford English Dictionary).

127 b.d.  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:28:54pm
‘Duck Dynasty’ star Phil Robertson appears to verbally attack gay people in newly emerged video

Read more: nydailynews.com

Footage has purportedly surfaced showing the 67-year-old saying homosexuals are “ruthless,” “full of murder,” “arrogant” and “liable to invent ways of doing evil.”

“They bow down to birds, animals and reptiles and each other and the first thing you see coming out of them is gross sexual immorality,” he adds, preacher-like, on the clip.

Read more: nydailynews.com

WE LIKE HIM MOAR NOW!!!1!!

128 Aunty Entity Dragon  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:29:16pm

re: #124 GeneJockey

There’s a difference between isolated terrorist acts - bad as they are - and the sort of organized, armed insurrection I think we’re talking about. We have an example of that, and strangely enough, it was the same damned states that time!

To be honest, I think we are in real danger of seeing that again, although I do not think that gay marriage would be the trigger. The right wing fan base has been primed for the last twenty years to be ready for the next race war/communist takeover/Agenda 21/Wolverines!! bloodbath, and political scientists the last couple of years keep comparing our political divisions and discourse to the conditions of 1850. That is not a good thing at all.

129 erik_t  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:30:32pm

re: #126 Ian G.

Anyway, nothing from Fischer’s twitter feed about Utah yet? Maybe he’s having a laugh about it considering he places Mormons just below gays on his hate list (it’s longer than the Oxford English Dictionary).

Utah is also full of bears!!!

130 HappyWarrior  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:30:34pm

re: #126 Ian G.

Anyway, nothing from Fischer’s twitter feed about Utah yet? Maybe he’s having a laugh about it considering he places Mormons just below gays on his hate list (it’s longer than the Oxford English Dictionary).

I find it interesting he hates Mormons so much. He’s from Idaho I believe. Lots of Mormons there.

131 HappyWarrior  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:31:02pm

re: #129 erik_t

Utah is also full of bears!!!

[Embedded image]

Great now gay Utah bears can get married.

132 wrenchwench  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:32:23pm
133 erik_t  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:32:32pm

re: #131 HappyWarrior

Great now gay Utah bears can get married.

Gay Utah bears could already get married to Utah bears of the other gender, and so had exactly the same equal rights as the rest of bearkind.

134 Aunty Entity Dragon  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:32:37pm

re: #131 HappyWarrior

Great now gay Utah bears can get married.

I support the right to keep and arm bears.
google.com

135 Kragar  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:32:41pm
136 HappyWarrior  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:33:16pm

re: #133 erik_t

Gay Utah bears could already get married to Utah bears of the other gender, and so had exactly the same equal rights as the rest of bearkind.

Thank You Representative Bachmann for that wisdom.

137 HappyWarrior  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:34:01pm

re: #134 Aunty Entity Dragon

I support the right to keep and arm bears.
google.com

There was a fun game I had for the PC back in the day- Deer Avenger. You played a deer hunting hunters. Amusing concept.

138 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:34:34pm
139 wrenchwench  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:35:21pm
140 Political Atheist  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:36:14pm

Hm. Reasonable? Don’t like the title but the body content is what matters-

Why is our go-to political strategy for beating our opponents to silence them? Why do we dismiss, rather than engage them? One of the biggest pop-culture icons of today just took center stage to “educate” us about sexuality. I see this as an opportunity to further the discussion, to challenge his limited understanding of human desire, to engage with him and his rather sizable audience — most of whom, by the way, probably share his views — and to rise above the endless sea of tweet-hate to help move our LGBT conversations to where they need to go.

Read more: The ‘Duck Dynasty’ Fiasco Says More About Our Bigotry Than Phil’s | TIME.com ideas.time.com

141 erik_t  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:36:16pm

re: #139 wrenchwench

Seriously, this day.

It’s a Festivus miracle!

142 HappyWarrior  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:36:33pm

re: #139 wrenchwench

[Embedded content]

Always a good day when America’s douchiest sheriff loses.

143 Targetpractice  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:38:36pm

re: #140 Political Atheist

Hm. Reasonable?

I wasn’t aware that Phil had been silenced by anybody. Certainly GQ is still selling issues and Phil’s still talking to the press. So what exactly is the point to this concern trolling besides the repetition of the idea that the mass expression of outrage is somehow “wrong” because the bigots should be “engaged” in “discussion”?

144 HappyWarrior  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:38:43pm

re: #140 Political Atheist

Hm. Reasonable?

People like Robertson who think homosexuality is like bestiality aren’t going to listen to arguments like the fact that homosexuality is natural and has been around for ages and that comparing consensual adult sex to bestiality is moronic. I don’t want Robertson “shut-down” but at the same time, I don’t see how you can expect to reason with such a man. Maybe if one of his sons or relatives were gay, he’d see that homosexuals are human beings just like everyone else.

145 erik_t  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:38:45pm

re: #140 Political Atheist

Hm. Reasonable?

Why is our go-to political strategy for beating our opponents to silence them? Why do we dismiss, rather than engage them?

Grumpypants McDuckCall has had every rational and thoughtful argument of his discussed with him at length. (All zero of them.)

How, precisely, does one “engage” in discussion with a person that simply says “my 2000 year old book says teh gayz are evil with the buttsex”?

This is an honest question, and I’d like you to either answer it or agree with me that, no, that Time statement is not reasonable.

146 HappyWarrior  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:39:13pm

re: #143 Targetpractice

I wasn’t aware that Phil had been silenced by anybody. Certainly GQ is still selling issues and Phil’s still talking to the press. So what exactly is the point to this concern trolling besides the repetition of the idea that the mass expression of outrage is somehow “wrong” because the bigots should be “engaged” in “discussion”?

Apparently we’;re bigots for calling out bigotry. This is a strange world.

147 Flounder  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:39:27pm

re: #5 jaunte

That’s an Amish beard, who is he trying to fool?

148 HappyWarrior  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:39:43pm

re: #145 erik_t

Grumpypants McDuckCall has had every rational and thoughtful argument of his discussed with him at length. (All zero of them.)

How, precisely, does one “engage” in discussion with a person that simply says “my 2000 year old book says teh gayz are evil with the buttsex”?

This is an honest question, and I’d like you to either answer it or agree with me that, no, that Time statement is not reasonable.

Said it better than I could.

149 Dr Lizardo  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:39:56pm

re: #139 wrenchwench

[Embedded content]

How much has that assclown Arpaio cost the Maricopa County by now? It’s gotta be a pretty significant dollar amount.

What a fuckstick.

150 AlexRogan  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:40:31pm

re: #111 Ian G.

This. There was no armed revolt over the Civil Rights Act, and that was a far more contention issue than gay marriage, howling from the Limbaugh/Palin/Drudge idiot industrial complex notwithstanding.

Also, you need young people in the streets cracking skulls for a fascist revolt to succeed. The only place I see direct action by young people is FOR gay rights (that Catholic school in Washington). Old FOX viewers on blood pressure meds won’t last long in guerrilla conflict.

It’s much easier to be all-in for revolution when you have little/nothing to lose, than it is when have everything to lose.

151 wrenchwench  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:40:51pm

re: #140 Political Atheist

Hm. Reasonable? Don’t like the title but the body content is what matters-

What a pile of manure. Besides what’s been said just above me, how can he quibble over whether the Duck guy is a bigot while completely ignoring his remarks about black people?

152 KiTA  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:41:02pm

It gets worse:

heavy.com

“Phil Robertson video emerges: “Gays are insolent, arrogant, god-haters. They are heartless. They are faithless. They are senseless. They are ruthless. They invent ways of doing evil.” (heavy.com)”

153 HappyWarrior  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:42:22pm

re: #151 wrenchwench

What a pile of manure. Besides what’s been said just above me, how can he quibble over whether the Duck guy is a bigot while completely ignoring his remarks about black people?

Yeah there’s seem to be ignoring the ignorant comments he made about African-Americans too that “they were happier back then.” For a man who grew up in the Jim Crow south that was a profoundly ignorant thing to say.

154 Targetpractice  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:42:43pm

re: #152 KiTA

It gets worse:

heavy.com

“Phil Robertson video emerges: “Gays are insolent, arrogant, god-haters. They are heartless. They are faithless. They are senseless. They are ruthless. They invent ways of doing evil.” (heavy.com)”

Wonderful thing about the Internet these days, when somebody tries to argue that they’ve never said something or that they’re being accused of having views they’ve never expressed, somebody in the world has a video or a long-lost editorial that says exactly the opposite and will be quick to post it to the web.

155 darthstar  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:42:48pm

Image: Christmas.jpg

156 HappyWarrior  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:43:27pm

re: #152 KiTA

It gets worse:

heavy.com

Let’s call this guy for what he is. He’s a bigot and I am glad that he’s being seen as such and I am glad that conservatives who are defending him are showing their true colors by showing they care more about some homophobic bigot having a soap box than homosexuals being respected under the law.

157 wrenchwench  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:43:48pm

This couple looks like they may have hunted ducks at some time:

158 wrenchwench  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:44:53pm

re: #145 erik_t

Grumpypants McDuckCall has had every rational and thoughtful argument of his discussed with him at length. (All zero of them.)

How, precisely, does one “engage” in discussion with a person that simply says “my 2000 year old book says teh gayz are evil with the buttsex”?

This is an honest question, and I’d like you to either answer it or agree with me that, no, that Time statement is not reasonable.

This.

159 erik_t  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:45:28pm

When a pig writhes around in manure and some manure is flung onto your suitcoat, one does not say “Say there, Mr. Pig! Pray, would you please refigure your manure-writhing technique so as to minimize the frequency and severity of airborne manure-particles? I dare say my suit coat is rather less dandy than it was before, and I think you’ll agree we’ll both be better off by keeping the manure where it belongs!”

You move further away from the pig, because it’s a pig and it’s rolling around in a big pile of shit.

160 Kragar  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:47:26pm
161 freetoken  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:47:56pm

re: #152 KiTA

It gets worse:

heavy.com

It looks like a pretty standard Romans chapter 1 sermon, which he is reading interspersed with his interpretation.

This is pretty standard stuff in fundamentalist circles.

162 Political Atheist  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:48:11pm

re: #145 erik_t

Grumpypants McDuckCall has had every rational and thoughtful argument of his discussed with him at length. (All zero of them.)

How, precisely, does one “engage” in discussion with a person that simply says “my 2000 year old book says teh gayz are evil with the buttsex”?

This is an honest question, and I’d like you to either answer it or agree with me that, no, that Time statement is not reasonable.

I think you engage in conversation with a guy like Phil the same as with anyone you have a fundamental disagreement with. Might be race, might be conservative vs progressive. Might be sexuality.

163 wrenchwench  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:48:39pm

re: #159 erik_t

When a pig writhes around in manure and some manure is flung onto your suitcoat, one does not say “Say there, Mr. Pig! Pray, would you please refigure your manure-writhing technique so as to minimize the frequency and severity of airborne manure-particles? I dare say my suit coat is rather less dandy than it was before, and I think you’ll agree we’ll both be better off by keeping the manure where it belongs!”

You move further away from the pig, because it’s a pig and it’s rolling around in a big pile of shit.

Shall I accuse you of trying to silence the pig now? By denying him his manure-flinging platform, or at least its proximity to your suit coat?

164 erik_t  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:49:48pm

re: #163 wrenchwench

Shall I accuse you of trying to silence the pig now? By denying him his manure-flinging platform, or at least its proximity to your suit coat?

Why, that’s the First Pig Amendment!!!!!1

165 gwangung  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:50:00pm

re: #156 HappyWarrior

Let’s call this guy for what he is. He’s a bigot and I am glad that he’s being seen as such and I am glad that conservatives who are defending him are showing their true colors by showing they care more about some homophobic bigot having a soap box than homosexuals being respected under the law.

I am all for calling these yo-yos out. Give ‘em all the light we can pour on ‘em.

It really doesn’t matter to me if he keeps his show or not—-I can implore people to not watch it, and it’s their decision to do so or not.

That’s not silencing. That’s the essence of the free market place of ideas.

166 Political Atheist  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:50:52pm

re: #151 wrenchwench

So you don’t see a scintilla of over reaction? Have we not elevated this beyond where it should go, enhanced his reputation among fundamentalists and ensured bigger rating and Duck merch sales?

Our collective anger has merit, but in some ways that backfires. I guess this could be put another way-Seek to punish or seek to reform the man in the wrong?

167 freetoken  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:51:28pm

re: #165 gwangung

That’s the essence of the free market place of ideas.

Wait…. I thought Obamacare destroyed the free market.

… am I getting my memes confused again..?.?.?

168 HappyWarrior  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:51:54pm

Thing is what do you say or respond to someone who thinks people of different races are an abomination and that God created them way to “punish” them. That’s the same line of thought we’re dealing with Mr. Robertson in regards to homosexuality here. In both cases, you have someone using scripture to justify his feelings on someone who is different than he is. So, I don’t know what the author of that Time piece expects us to say. Homosexuals are human beings. They’re not sexual deviants. They’re people who just happen to be attracted to members of the same sex. I have a bigger problem with someone being a Yankees fan than I do them being attracted to other men or women. I kind of jest about the last one being I have many Yankees fans that I call friend.

169 Targetpractice  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:52:58pm

re: #162 Political Atheist

I think you engage in conversation with a guy like Phil the same as with anyone you have a fundamental disagreement with. Might be race, might be conservative vs progressive. Might be sexuality.

All well and good, but what does that have to do with the present situation? Should A&E have held off on suspending him so that we a “discussion” might have been “engaged” in?

170 Shiplord Kirel  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:54:18pm

re: #96 erik_t

Old people don’t really revolt.

Oh, I don’t know. Some of my fellow seniors are pretty revolting.

171 HappyWarrior  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:54:52pm

Gay rights activists have been trying to have this “discussion” for years. It’s not their fault that Mr. Robertson wants to be pig-headed in his views. He I have no doubt has known actual gay people. The problem I see with many anti-gay bigots, yes bigots like Mr. Robertson is they see homosexuals as these outsiders who are somehow outside their lives.

172 Lidane  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:55:04pm

re: #166 Political Atheist

Have we not elevated this beyond where it should go, enhanced his reputation among fundamentalists and ensured bigger rating and Duck merch sales?

Sure. The whole thing is an overblown, entirely manufactured outrage.

He wanted off the show. He handed A&E a way for him to leave the show just in time for the holiday shopping season and for them to look good to the majority of their viewers and advertisers. Now everyone involved stands to make more money in the long run. It’s all win-win.

173 freetoken  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:55:22pm

We ought not be surprised that a fundamentalist has had a (for cable television) successful show in the USA.

174 Eclectic Cyborg  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:56:57pm

re: #173 freetoken

We ought not be surprised that a fundamentalist has had a (for cable television) successful show in the USA.


19 kids and counting?

/

175 wrenchwench  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:57:33pm

re: #166 Political Atheist

So you don’t see a scintilla of over reaction? Have we not elevated this beyond where it should go, enhanced his reputation among fundamentalists and ensured bigger rating and Duck merch sales?

Our collective anger has merit, but in some ways that backfires. I guess this could be put another way-Seek to punish or seek to reform the man in the wrong?

The whole thing has gotten way more attention than it deserves. I don’t have a TV, so I don’t even know how much attention that is. But I have heard nothing spoken against the head bigot of that show that I thought was overstated. There simply is nothing to discuss when someone spews that kind of ignorant hate. His mind is a twisted wreck of diseased putty.

Any suggestion that criticism should be withheld because it will enhance his reputation with fellow bigots is silly. Why silence those who protest hate?

I seek neither to punish nor to reform, but only to denounce bigotry.

176 Decatur Deb  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:57:57pm

re: #152 KiTA

It gets worse:

heavy.com

“Phil Robertson video emerges: “Gays are insolent, arrogant, god-haters. They are heartless. They are faithless. They are senseless. They are ruthless. They invent ways of doing evil.” (heavy.com)”

If you invent a way of doing evil, can you get a patent?

177 HappyWarrior  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:58:07pm

re: #174 Eclectic Cyborg


19 kids and counting?

/

Yeah it’s pretty awkward when you’re older than your full uncle or aunt. I mean my grandmother was older than her nephew but it was her half sister’s son not full sister.

178 GeneJockey  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:58:27pm

re: #140 Political Atheist

Hm. Reasonable? Don’t like the title but the body content is what matters-

His concern is noted.

Seriously, though - by the time I heard about it, less than 12 hr into the kerfuffle, he’d already been suspended by A&E. If there was a big campaign to get rid of him, it must have been organized PDQ, and done its work between Wednesday night and Thursday morning.

For most of ‘The Left’, they heard what he said and that it got him suspended in the same story, so I’m wondering about the alleged call to force him out. Certainly the cataclysmic whining from the Right has overwhelmed any outrage from the left, in terms of volume. And that’s volume defined as either amount or loudness.

WRT the author not being sure Phil Robertson is REALLY homophobic, well, I think that ship just sailed. See above.

179 Eclectic Cyborg  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:58:48pm

re: #176 Decatur Deb

If you invent a way of doing evil, can you get a patent?

Microsoft succeeded.

180 wrenchwench  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 2:59:39pm
181 GeneJockey  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:01:06pm

re: #166 Political Atheist

So you don’t see a scintilla of over reaction? Have we not elevated this beyond where it should go, enhanced his reputation among fundamentalists and ensured bigger rating and Duck merch sales?

Our collective anger has merit, but in some ways that backfires. I guess this could be put another way-Seek to punish or seek to reform the man in the wrong?

Yes, but not here. I see it on the Right, where they’re talking as if the Gov’t sent in storm troops to cut the cables at A&E to prevent Duck Dynasty from going on the air.

182 Political Atheist  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:01:08pm

re: #169 Targetpractice

Actually a suspension is more like it than an outright dismissal. Look don’t think I’m here to defend Phil, or the show.

My point is there might be a more effective or helpful way to call him out than removing him from the show permanently. Maybe. Reflexively hating on southern conservatives ain’t it. Lots of that out there too.

183 Lidane  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:01:18pm

“Because I’m a fucking moron” was apparently not nuanced enough for this guy:

184 ObserverArt  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:01:32pm

re: #166 Political Atheist

So you don’t see a scintilla of over reaction? Have we not elevated this beyond where it should go, enhanced his reputation among fundamentalists and ensured bigger rating and Duck merch sales?

Our collective anger has merit, but in some ways that backfires. I guess this could be put another way-Seek to punish or seek to reform the man in the wrong?

You can call it over reaction, but it could also be called a natural reaction to something a lot of people are getting sick of. If it is a small group of people making an inordinate amount of noise, like say Palin, Fischer, Beck, Hannity, etc. then it is an over reaction. If it is a large segment of the public awakened by stupid crap they are tired of so they discuss it for a few days and want it changed, that is natural.

Things change by numbers so then large numbers precede the change. I don’t think it can be downplayed.

185 fern01  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:02:52pm

re: #76 Lidane

Griswold, which gives married couples the right to use birth control.

The nutters don’t think that married couples have the right to use contraception. Let that sink in a while.

Folks have been using contraception since Adam was a boy - what the nutters want to stop is WOMEN being able to control their fertility - the Connecticut law against contraception was passed in 1879 - but mainly ignored - until, surprise - the pill made contraception available to women without the consent and/or knowledge of her male partner.

186 HappyWarrior  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:04:13pm

re: #183 Lidane

“Because I’m a fucking moron” was apparently not nuanced enough for this guy:

[Embedded content]

Oh yes the persecution of people who are open Christians. Such horse fucking shit. Tired of Christians like this guy claim they are the victims of persecution in their pathetic quest to persecute people who aren’t like them. The guy likened homosexuality to bestiality. He got called out for it. He was NOT arrested. He’s not anything like Rosa Parks. If anything, he’s like the people who arrested Rosa Parks since he’s stuck in the past with backass backwards views on people different from him.

187 Lidane  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:04:16pm

re: #182 Political Atheist

My point is there might be a more effective or helpful way to call him out than removing him from the show permanently. Maybe. Reflexively hating on southern conservatives ain’t it. Lots of that out there too.

And the larger point is that he wanted off the show anyway. What does he care if he gets suspended? He didn’t want to be on there in the first place.

Now he gets to pull from the wingnut welfare train by fleecing even more rubes for book sales, speaking fees, etc. Plus his companies will now make even more money. He wins no matter what, so why not point out that he’s a raging bigot? It’s what he wanted anyhow.

188 AlexRogan  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:05:43pm

re: #170 Shiplord Kirel

Oh, I don’t know. Some of my fellow seniors are pretty revolting.

They stink on ice?

189 Political Atheist  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:05:56pm

re: #184 ObserverArt

re: #181 GeneJockey


I think timing and accident has a lot to do with the volume. Slow news moment for examples. Show just getting renewed.
The anger itself has become popular like a hit song. And BTW highly highly counter productive if you want to make those guys have less money, fewer viewers or sell less merchandise.

190 Targetpractice  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:05:57pm

re: #182 Political Atheist

Actually a suspension is more like it than an outright dismissal. Look don’t think I’m here to defend Phil, or the show.

My point is there might be a more effective or helpful way to call him out than removing him from the show permanently. Maybe. Reflexively hating on southern conservatives ain’t it. Lots of that out there too.

I’ve noted time and again that the man was only suspended, not outright dismissed and from the sounds of things behind the scenes is the one who will ultimately decide if he quits or not.

A&E made a business decision, according to their spokespeople it was shortly after receiving a call from GLAAD. I’m not aware of any public campaign to have him fired from the show or even punished in any way. Even now, it does not appear that there is a consensus on what should happen, though there appears to be one that says if he or the show should be taken off the air, none of his critics will shed any tears.

191 HappyWarrior  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:06:09pm

re: #182 Political Atheist

Actually a suspension is more like it than an outright dismissal. Look don’t think I’m here to defend Phil, or the show.

My point is there might be a more effective or helpful way to call him out than removing him from the show permanently. Maybe. Reflexively hating on southern conservatives ain’t it. Lots of that out there too.

I don’t think anyone is reflexively hating on Southern conservatives though many do seem to agree with Mr. Robertson’s views on homosexuality as seen with past votes on gay marriage in many Southern states.. Not sure where you get that one. What we are hating on is a fundamentalist way of looking at the world. I look down on Phil’s worldview the same way I do a Islamic fundamentalist who thinks only the Quran can tell us how to live.

192 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:06:32pm

re: #166 Political Atheist

So you don’t see a scintilla of over reaction? Have we not elevated this beyond where it should go, enhanced his reputation among fundamentalists and ensured bigger rating and Duck merch sales?

Our collective anger has merit, but in some ways that backfires. I guess this could be put another way-Seek to punish or seek to reform the man in the wrong?

Well, as I recall, having been around during the Civil Rights era, someone, even a public figure sometimes, using the “n” word never suffered a loss of face, employment or profits because a lot of people agreed with them. You could sit around the office all day long opining on “n———s” and no one would call you on it. Well, I hated the word and was ostracized more than once for calling someone on it.

I don’t think these Robertson yahoos will suffer financially, probably not at all. Watch A&E find out this has been good publicity and back down. Although if 67 yr old Phil retires from the show, as he said he was considering, there probably won’t be a 5th season of this lot.

193 wrenchwench  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:08:02pm

re: #183 Lidane

“Because I’m a fucking moron” was apparently not nuanced enough for this guy:

[Embedded content]

Moron is right.

“So having seen that I believe and I thought it was complementary to Rosa Parks because I see Rosa Parks as a courageous person that stood up in the face of a system that was bad and said hey, enough is enough,” Bayne said.

It’s ‘complimentary’ (although that would not be the speaker’s fault for spelling it wrong) and Rosa Parks sat down.

194 freetoken  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:08:51pm

Meanwhile, behind the curtains:

Not just the Koch brothers: New Drexel study reveals funders behind the climate change denial effort

A new study conducted by Drexel University’s environmental sociologist Robert J. Brulle, PhD, exposes the organizational underpinnings and funding behind the powerful climate change countermovement. This study marks the first peer-reviewed, comprehensive analysis ever conducted of the sources of funding that maintain the denial effort.

Through an analysis of the financial structure of the organizations that constitute the core of the countermovement and their sources of monetary support, Brulle found that, while the largest and most consistent funders behind the countermovement are a number of well-known conservative foundations, the majority of donations are “dark money,” or concealed funding.

[…]

Key findings include:

Conservative foundations have bank-rolled denial. The largest and most consistent funders of organizations orchestrating climate change denial are a number of well-known conservative foundations, such as the Searle Freedom Trust, the John William Pope Foundation, the Howard Charitable Foundation and the Sarah Scaife Foundation. These foundations promote ultra-free-market ideas in many realms.

Koch and ExxonMobil have recently pulled back from publicly visible funding. From 2003 to 2007, the Koch Affiliated Foundations and the ExxonMobil Foundation were heavily involved in funding climate-change denial organizations. But since 2008, they are no longer making publicly traceable contributions.

Funding has shifted to pass through untraceable sources. Coinciding with the decline in traceable funding, the amount of funding given to denial organizations by the Donors Trust has risen dramatically. Donors Trust is a donor-directed foundation whose funders cannot be traced. This one foundation now provides about 25% of all traceable foundation funding used by organizations engaged in promoting systematic denial of climate change.

Most funding for denial efforts is untraceable. Despite extensive data compilation and analyses, only a fraction of the hundreds of millions in contributions to climate change denying organizations can be specifically accounted for from public records. Approximately 75% of the income of these organizations comes from unidentifiable sources.

[…]

195 Political Atheist  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:09:02pm

re: #187 Lidane

Right. we got played, and few want to recognize that in an effective fashion. I.E. more high emotion attention plays into his hands, not ours.

196 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:09:20pm

re: #189 Political Atheist

And BTW highly highly counter productive if you want to make those guys have less money, fewer viewers or sell less merchandise.

Why would any of those be the goal? I think we’re just at the point where gays as a community aren’t going to sit quietly while they’re labeled as equivalent to dog fucking terrorists. And, as a community, their and their supporters’ buying power is probably at least on par with the bigots.

197 HappyWarrior  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:09:33pm

re: #193 wrenchwench

Moron is right.

It’s ‘complimentary’ (although that would not be the speaker’s fault for spelling it wrong) and Rosa Parks sat down.

I think it’s pretty pathetic that he thinks calling people animal fuckers is the same as standing up against a system of racial discrimination but then again he is a moron- a moron who could very well be in our rCongress next year (I don’t know anything about that district.)

198 gwangung  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:09:48pm

re: #166 Political Atheist

So you don’t see a scintilla of over reaction?

Over thinking that he’s an idiot and a bigot? Hell, no. Why are you complaining? Trying to muzzle our First Amendment rights?

Long as I can take potshots at a public figure and call it like I see ‘em…

199 GeneJockey  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:10:20pm

re: #182 Political Atheist

Actually a suspension is more like it than an outright dismissal. Look don’t think I’m here to defend Phil, or the show.

My point is there might be a more effective or helpful way to call him out than removing him from the show permanently. Maybe. Reflexively hating on southern conservatives ain’t it. Lots of that out there too.

In my case it’s not reflexive. I came to it gradually, by experience. I eventually realized that Southern Conservatives were one of two kinds of people: the kind who owned slaves and sent hundreds of thousands off to die so they could keep owning, buying, and selling people like cattle; and the gullible chumps that the first group convinced to go off and die so that they could keep owning, buying, and selling people like cattle.

Today, the descendants of those same two groups are now either rich people who think that workers deserve as little as they can get away with paying them, and gullible chumps - middle-class and working people who find themselves not being paid enough, and blame poor people and other workers rather than the rich people who pay them.

And BOTH of them think it’s any of their damn business what two consenting adults do, and want to use the power of the State to prevent it while complaining about freedom.

200 wrenchwench  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:10:35pm

re: #189 Political Atheist

I think timing and accident has a lot to do with the volume. Slow news moment for examples. Show just getting renewed.
The anger itself has become popular like a hit song. And BTW highly highly counter productive if you want to make those guys have less money, fewer viewers or sell less merchandise.

Are you proposing that we quit criticizing bigots because it only gives them more attention?

201 Killgore Trout  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:10:57pm

re: #140 Political Atheist

Hm. Reasonable? Don’t like the title but the body content is what matters-

Good article and I wish more people were thinking along those lines. I think the problem is human nature. People find it empowering to hurt others with different ideas. Advertisers are corporate employers usually avoid controversy because it hurts profits so catering to the loudest, most sensitive or most outraged members of society has become common place. I think it’d be more effective to debate people with different ideas but most people find it more emotionally satisfying to get them fired or chase them out of the public arena.

202 erik_t  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:11:01pm

re: #166 Political Atheist

So you don’t see a scintilla of over reaction? Have we not elevated this beyond where it should go, enhanced his reputation among fundamentalists and ensured bigger rating and Duck merch sales?

Our collective anger has merit, but in some ways that backfires. I guess this could be put another way-Seek to punish or seek to reform the man in the wrong?

He’s a dumbshit standing outside in the cold, petulantly facing away with crossed arms and a big frown.

The door isn’t locked. The porch light is on. Whenever he wants to come join us adults in polite society, I’ll welcome him with open arms.

If you think I’m going to go try to lure him in with treats and sweet nothings, well, he’s a big boy. He can make his own decision.

203 darthstar  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:11:14pm


Tapper’s asinine tweet:

204 freetoken  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:12:19pm

Reuters runs with this headline:

Obama says healthcare rollout was biggest mistake of 2013

SEE! SEE! EVEN OBUMMER REALIZES OBAMACARE WILL DESTROY AMERICA!!

Reuters - where English is a flexible language.

205 Political Atheist  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:13:28pm

re: #191 HappyWarrior

I don’t think anyone is reflexively hating on Southern conservatives though many do seem to agree with Mr. Robertson’s views on homosexuality as seen with past votes on gay marriage in many Southern states.. Not sure where you get that one. What we are hating on is a fundamentalist way of looking at the world. I look down on Phil’s worldview the same way I do a Islamic fundamentalist who thinks only the Quran can tell us how to live.

You are aware that the term redneck is an insult, a pejorative term for rural/southern people right? That’s a word that gets thrown around a lot, and not just since this came up. keep in mind I refer to the media and the blogs out there in general, not a complaint about LGF.

Why should a southerner be any less offended at “redneck’ coming from an angry broad brushing critic than an African American at the “N” word?

206 freetoken  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:13:47pm

The web page problems for Healthcare.gov are among the most trivial things, compared to the big picture stuff of history.

Really, folks, it’s just an inconvenience if a website doesn’t save your data.

207 HappyWarrior  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:13:49pm

re: #201 Killgore Trout

Good article and I wish more people were thinking along those lines. I think the problem is human nature. People find it empowering to hurt others with different ideas. Advertisers are corporate employers usually avoid controversy because it hurts profits so catering to the loudest, most sensitive or most outraged members of society has become common place. I think it’d be more effective to debate people with different ideas but most people find it more emotionally satisfying to get them fired or chase them out of the public arena.

I’ll ask you the same thing, I asked PA. How do you reasonably debate with a human being who thinks your gay friends and family are equivalent to people who screw animals? There’s disagreement like say on fiscal policy where two people can reasonably disagree and then there’s something like this where an individual is likening an entire community to people who screw animals. If you want reasonable debate, you don’t talk the way in the first place. Don’t blame people who take issue with their friends and family being insulted that way and act like the person who made the comments is just being bullied. Robertson knew exactly what he was doing here and he’s not going to be a poorer man for ti- Hell I wager to bet he’ll be wealthier.

208 Targetpractice  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:14:10pm

re: #195 Political Atheist

Right. we got played, and few want to recognize that in an effective fashion. I.E. more high emotion attention plays into his hands, not ours.

You’ll forgive me, but it reads (at least to me) as though you’re trying to argue that those who are offended by Robertson’s words and those of like-minded bigots should bite off their outrage and instead stick strictly to “discussion,” as though we’re talking about two reasonable and logical parties rather than one which is pounding a 2000 yr old book of fairy tales and bellowing that any who “sin” are not simply wrong, but “evil.”

209 erik_t  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:14:13pm

re: #205 Political Atheist

Why should a southerner be any less offended at “redneck’ coming from an angry broad brushing critic than an African American at the “N” word?

What the fuck is this shit?!

210 wrenchwench  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:14:23pm

re: #205 Political Atheist

Why should a southerner be any less offended at “redneck’ coming from an angry broad brushing critic than an African American at the “N” word?

OFFS.

You aren’t serious, are you?

211 ObserverArt  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:15:33pm

re: #189 Political Atheist

I think timing and accident has a lot to do with the volume. Slow news moment for examples. Show just getting renewed.
The anger itself has become popular like a hit song. And BTW highly highly counter productive if you want to make those guys have less money, fewer viewers or sell less merchandise.

Are you just seeing it one way though? How about letting it play out and see if it is another building block in things changing. Stuff takes time. You’d have to admit with what happened in a state like Utah today when viewed against Phil DuckHead it is going to make people really have to think and when viewed historically is another block in the building of gay rights.

Maybe they are a dynamic reflective of the times and the reactions on both sides are of that reflection. Ducks one day, two days later Utah. Rather dramatic.

If someone could plot out the line from say something like the Stonewall Riots in 1969 to where gay rights are this very day, I’d think you’d be impressed with that plot line and a rather rapid increase in the last say, five years. Is the reaction on that same kind of a line?

212 Political Atheist  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:15:35pm

re: #200 wrenchwench

Are you proposing that we quit criticizing bigots because it only gives them more attention?

I’m suggesting that a very different tone would reduce the “wingnut welfare” factor. Where or when did “engaging” mean there would be no criticism?

213 Targetpractice  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:15:39pm

re: #205 Political Atheist

You are aware that the term redneck is an insult, a pejorative term for rural/southern people right? That’s a word that gets thrown around a lot, and not just since this came up. keep in mind I refer to the media and the blogs out there in general, not a complaint about LGF.

Why should a southerner be any less offended at “redneck’ coming from an angry broad brushing critic than an African American at the “N” word?

Ah, I see the Magical Balance Fairy is getting her daily workout.

214 dog philosopher  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:15:41pm

re: #191 HappyWarrior

I don’t think anyone is reflexively hating on Southern conservatives

the idea is being propogated by wingnuts that ‘liberals’, yanno, city slickers and californians and suchlike, um, like me, are walking around dissing on southern conservatives and real american midwesterners, but my impression is more of very nice people who will serve you home-made pie and who aren’t at all concerned about who is having sex with whom

215 HappyWarrior  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:15:59pm

re: #205 Political Atheist

You are aware that the term redneck is an insult, a pejorative term for rural/southern people right? That’s a word that gets thrown around a lot, and not just since this came up. keep in mind I refer to the media and the blogs out there in general, not a complaint about LGF.

Why should a southerner be any less offended at “redneck’ coming from an angry broad brushing critic than an African American at the “N” word?

Are you seriously going to tell me that redneck is close to the N-word? I know it’s an offensive term for Southerners and rural people. I am both of those things. I haven’t seen mass attacks on “rednecks.” I’ve mostly seen people attacking an individual, Phil Robertson.

216 darthstar  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:16:19pm
217 gwangung  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:17:35pm

re: #212 Political Atheist

I’m suggesting that a very different tone would reduce the “wingnut welfare” factor. Where or when did “engaging” mean there would be no criticism?

Your concern is noted.

But I also think a lot of times that a particular tone is warranted. This is not an intellectual exercise for some people—-it is literally existential for them.

218 Political Atheist  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:17:49pm

re: #213 Targetpractice

Ah, I see the Magical Balance Fairy is getting her daily workout.

WTF? Not in the least. MBF implies something is ok. I am saying the opposite. “Redneck” and the N word and certain phrases designed to hurt and insult should simply not be used. Not in anger anyway.

219 Zamb  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:18:11pm

Well apparently it’s only because we hate Christians.

220 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:18:33pm

re: #205 Political Atheist

Why should a southerner be any less offended at “redneck’ coming from an angry broad brushing critic than an African American at the “N” word?

Just the entire history of slavery, post Reconstruction, Jim Crow and the resistance to the Civil Rights movement.

People being called redneck were never physically fucking hunted, lynched, denied the right to speak freely, assemble, vote, purchase certain homes, hold certain jobs, join most country clubs, eat at most resaurants, made to sit in the balcony or the back of the bus, on account of their skin color.

That was a seriously stupid fucking question.

221 erik_t  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:18:36pm

re: #212 Political Atheist

I’m suggesting that a very different tone would reduce the “wingnut welfare” factor. Where or when did “engaging” mean there would be no criticism?

You say that like this man lives in an actual vacuum, as if he’s never had the chance to talk with a gay person or see the rest of society.

That’s the engaging. He thinks that gays are creepy evil whatever, well, there are hundreds of thousands or millions of people around him acting very conspicuously non-evil twenty four hours a day, and a lot of them are putting up with a lot of shit, far more shit than Grumps McDuckNoise could ever imagine in his tiny little ratbrain, for doing it openly around him.

That’s far more engagement than this ass-backward turd has any right to expect. If that’s not enough for him, he can go piss upwind for all I care.

222 Eclectic Cyborg  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:18:56pm

Has there been much wingnut gloating about Obama’s current approval ratings?

223 Killgore Trout  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:18:57pm

re: #207 HappyWarrior

I’ll ask you the same thing, I asked PA. How do you reasonably debate with a human being who thinks your gay friends and family are equivalent to people who screw animals? There’s disagreement like say on fiscal policy where two people can reasonably disagree and then there’s something like this where an individual is likening an entire community to people who screw animals. If you want reasonable debate, you don’t talk the way in the first place. Don’t blame people who take issue with their friends and family being insulted that way and act like the person who made the comments is just being bullied. Robertson knew exactly what he was doing here and he’s not going to be a poorer man for ti- Hell I wager to bet he’ll be wealthier.

You’ll probably never convince him that he’s wrong but he’s not a dumb man. He’s not a monster. You could easily sit down with him, have a few beers and talk shit but converting him isn’t a reasonable option. Sometimes you just have to acknowledge some people have different ideas. I disagree with him but I don’t think he’s dangerous. I don’t see any harm in allowing him to make tv shows or sell duck whistles or whatever else he does.

224 erik_t  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:19:11pm

re: #218 Political Atheist

WTF? Not in the least. MBF implies something is ok. I am saying the opposite. “Redneck” and the N word and certain phrases designed to hurt and insult should simply not be used. Not in anger anyway.

“Why any less”?
Implies equality.
Balance.
Exactly and explicitly MBF.

225 wrenchwench  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:19:16pm

re: #212 Political Atheist

I’m suggesting that a very different tone would reduce the “wingnut welfare” factor. Where or when did “engaging” mean there would be no criticism?

How would you engage with Mr. Bigot? Ask him how he feels about the word ‘redneck’?

226 Zamb  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:19:37pm

re: #219 Zamb

Seriously when’s the last time a Muslim openly insulted a section of the population and kept his sweet reality gig?

227 Targetpractice  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:20:00pm

re: #218 Political Atheist

WTF? Not in the least. MBF implies something is ok. I am saying the opposite. “Redneck” and the N word and certain phrases designed to hurt and insult should simply not be used. Not in anger anyway.

Sorry, but while I know there are those who consider “redneck” to be an insult, it does not in any way rise to the level of n——-r. Please don’t insult my intelligence with the suggestion that they are on the same level.

228 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:20:18pm

re: #219 Zamb

Well apparently it’s only because we hate Christians.
[Embedded image]

Note the word, “crucifying”.

Does this idiot “writer” think people are all brain dead?

229 wrenchwench  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:20:29pm

re: #217 gwangung

Your concern is noted.

But I also think a lot of times that a particular tone is warranted. This is not an intellectual exercise for some people—-it is literally existential for them.

I think this is what PA has a hard time internalizing.

230 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:20:55pm

re: #218 Political Atheist

WTF? Not in the least. MBF implies something is ok. I am saying the opposite. “Redneck” and the N word and certain phrases designed to hurt and insult should simply not be used. Not in anger anyway.

Fine, stop pretending that they are in any way equivalent. You know goddamned well that they aren’t.

231 Lidane  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:21:01pm

re: #220 goddamnedfrank

Just the entire history of slavery, post Reconstruction, Jim Crow and the resistance to the Civil Rights movement.

People being called redneck were never physically fucking hunted, lynched, denied the right to speak freely, assemble, vote, purchase certain homes, hold certain jobs, join most country clubs, eat at most resaurants, made to sit in the balcony or the back of the bus, on account of their skin color.

That was a seriously stupid fucking question.

THIS.

Comparing “redneck” to the N-word is absurd. Rednecks might be a stereotype, but they’ve never had a history of being physically and legally denied their lives and freedoms.

232 darthstar  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:21:12pm

Friend of mine works on the same campus as Lucas Arts…guess who she ran into at lunch?

Image: 1477943_10153609148855580_1510990945_n.jpg

233 The War TARDIS  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:21:25pm

re: #226 Zamb

Never, because most American Muslims are not this thick.

I somehow think that when Utahans woke up this morning, they didn’t expect Gay Marriage to be legal in the state come evening.

Poetic Justice for Proposition 8.

234 HappyWarrior  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:21:52pm

re: #223 Killgore Trout

You’ll probably never convince him that he’s wrong but he’s not a dumb man. He’s not a monster. You could easily sit down with him, have a few beers and talk shit but converting him isn’t a reasonable option. Sometimes you just have to acknowledge some people have different ideas. I disagree with him but I don’t think he’s dangerous. I don’t see any harm in allowing him to make tv shows or sell duck whistles or whatever else he does.

Okay, I think you’re totally misreading me. I’ve never said he was “dangerous” or a “monster.” I think what he said was unbelievably bigoted. That doesn’t mean I want him ruined but I do think he should have to face the heat for what he says. If I am in the public spotlight like he’s been the past couple years and I say something stupid, I should expect to have a backlash against me. It would be the same principle if he had insulted anotehr group.

235 erik_t  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:21:57pm

re: #223 Killgore Trout

You’ll probably never convince him that he’s wrong but he’s not a dumb man. He’s not a monster. You could easily sit down with him, have a few beers and talk shit but converting him isn’t a reasonable option. Sometimes you just have to acknowledge some people have different ideas. I disagree with him but I don’t think he’s dangerous. I don’t see any harm in allowing him to make tv shows or sell duck whistles or whatever else he does.

Everyone acknowledges his different ideas. Nobody here is saying that whatshisname doesn’t actually hate gay people.

You’re asking us to acknowledge his active participation in polite society while promulgating these ideas. Nobody has a right to have their ideas taken seriously, and nobody has an absolute freedom from shunning or rejection. That’s incredibly different.

These things are earned, and this man has not earned them.

236 dog philosopher  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:22:27pm

re: #219 Zamb

“crucifying”

he has had to suffer criticism!!! oh, the humanity!!

237 Political Atheist  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:22:50pm

re: #220 goddamnedfrank

An insult is an insult.

What’s interesting is how unwelcome just the idea of engaging a man in the wrong to hope to change his mind is.

I give up. A less angry, less loud way is just not welcome.
Anger and the desire to punish wins the day. I Surrender to the heat of the moment. Shouted down.

238 HappyWarrior  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:22:56pm

re: #220 goddamnedfrank

Just the entire history of slavery, post Reconstruction, Jim Crow and the resistance to the Civil Rights movement.

People being called redneck were never physically fucking hunted, lynched, denied the right to speak freely, assemble, vote, purchase certain homes, hold certain jobs, join most country clubs, eat at most resaurants, made to sit in the balcony or the back of the bus, on account of their skin color.

That was a seriously stupid fucking question.

Yes, this. I’m a rural Southerner. Both my parents grew up under segregation. I don’t like the term redneck but it’s not anything close to the n-word.

239 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:23:13pm

re: #223 Killgore Trout

I don’t see any harm in allowing him to make tv shows or sell duck whistles or whatever else he does.

Then give him a show on your network. A&E sees harm to their brand. They’re the one’s who have to employ the creative talent that gets these shows made and they’ve decided that alienating the gay community isn’t worth it to their bottom line.

240 darthstar  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:23:26pm
241 wrenchwench  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:24:18pm

re: #237 Political Atheist

An insult is an insult.

What’s interesting is how unwelcome just the idea of engaging a man in the wrong to hope to change his mind is.

I give up. A less angry, less loud way is just not welcome.
Anger and the desire to punish wins the day. I Surrender to the heat of the moment.

Bullshit.

242 Targetpractice  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:25:18pm

re: #223 Killgore Trout

You’ll probably never convince him that he’s wrong but he’s not a dumb man. He’s not a monster. You could easily sit down with him, have a few beers and talk shit but converting him isn’t a reasonable option. Sometimes you just have to acknowledge some people have different ideas. I disagree with him but I don’t think he’s dangerous. I don’t see any harm in allowing him to make tv shows or sell duck whistles or whatever else he does.

Why am I not surprised, from the man who thought Rush Limbaugh calling a woman a “slut” on live radio was not only something that people shouldn’t be outraged over, but certainly not something that he should lost advertisers for saying.

I know, perhaps if Mr. Robertson and Mr. Limbaugh put on OWS shirts, you’d be okay with pepper-spraying them.

243 wrenchwench  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:25:24pm
244 gwangung  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:25:29pm

re: #219 Zamb

Well apparently it’s only because we hate Christians.
[Embedded image]

Stupid. The Taliban have gotten plenty of grief over their anti-woman, anti-gay views.

Jeezus. It’s not that hard. LOOK IT UP.

245 Targetpractice  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:26:13pm

re: #237 Political Atheist

An insult is an insult.

What’s interesting is how unwelcome just the idea of engaging a man in the wrong to hope to change his mind is.

I give up. A less angry, less loud way is just not welcome.
Anger and the desire to punish wins the day. I Surrender to the heat of the moment. Shouted down.

Oh can the drama queen bit.

246 dog philosopher  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:26:45pm

re: #239 goddamnedfrank

Then give him a show on your network. A&E sees harm to their brand. They’re the one’s who have to employ the creative talent that gets these shows made and they’ve decided that alienating the gay community isn’t worth it to their bottom line.

even more generally, entertainment networks are allergic to rude language of any type

it used to be so bad that in the old days jack paar lost his job as host of the tonite show because he use the work ‘toilet’ on the air

but he didn’t whine about how he was ‘crucified’

247 Political Atheist  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:26:48pm

The “N” word and redneck are both designed to insult, dismiss the other person as some lesser being. That is my context for the term. That’s my comparison. Just the slightest disagreement with the very angry response got quite the negative reaction.

248 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:26:52pm

re: #237 Political Atheist

An insult is an insult.

What’s interesting is how unwelcome just the idea of engaging a man in the wrong to hope to change his mind is.

I give up. A less angry, less loud way is just not welcome.
Anger and the desire to punish wins the day. I Surrender to the heat of the moment.

Maybe instead of preaching you should take the initiative to fly out to Louisiana and talk to Robertson yourself. What’s unwelcome isn’t the idea itself, it’s trying to foist it off on everyone else who, after a lifetime of dealing with them are simply done with coddling bigots now that bigotry comes with a price tag.

249 moderatelyradicalliberal  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:27:26pm

re: #108 Kragar

[Embedded content]

What a cute couple!

250 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:27:45pm

If anyone thinks the word “redneck” is insulting, they don’t live in the south.

The song, “Redneck Woman” was a monster hit on the country charts. People revel in their redneckness, like a big FU.

251 erik_t  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:27:47pm

“N*****” = “redneck”

I thought I left this bullshit behind in Yahoo! comments.

Jesus H. Christ.

252 Targetpractice  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:28:00pm

re: #247 Political Atheist

The “N” word and redneck are both designed to insult, dismiss the other person as some lesser being. That is my context for the term. That’s my comparison. Just the slightest disagreement with the very angry response got quite the negative reaction.

Perhaps you might consider engaging in a discussion.

253 lawhawk  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:28:47pm
254 GeneJockey  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:28:51pm

re: #237 Political Atheist

An insult is an insult.

What’s interesting is how unwelcome just the idea of engaging a man in the wrong to hope to change his mind is.

I give up. A less angry, less loud way is just not welcome.
Anger and the desire to punish wins the day. I Surrender to the heat of the moment.

Sorry, but that comes across as a lot of self-serving tripe. The thing is, as I said - and you blew right by - there’s FAR less outrage on the Left for what he said than you’re making out. What he said was stupid and ignorant, and that’s pretty much what I hear people saying. MOST of what I hear people saying on the Left is responding to the hurricane of bullshit coming from the Right about his Freedom of Speech being trampled, and how persecuted Christians are.

255 Political Atheist  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:29:23pm

re: #248 goddamnedfrank

Maybe instead of preaching you should take the initiative to fly out to Louisiana and talk to Robertson yourself. What’s unwelcome isn’t the idea itself, it’s trying to foist it off on everyone else who, after a lifetime of dealing with them are simply done with coddling bigots now that bigotry comes with a price tag.

Look at the reaction above. It defies your contention. pointing out how this will put more money in the Robertsons pockets is hardly preaching. neither is just asking if a milder reaction might be reasonable. The idea is clearly unwelcome as hell.

256 wrenchwench  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:29:28pm

re: #237 Political Atheist

An insult is an insult.

re: #247 Political Atheist

The “N” word and redneck are both designed to insult, dismiss the other person as some lesser being. That is my context for the term. That’s my comparison. Just the slightest disagreement with the very angry response got quite the negative reaction.

You’re doubling down on the claim that ‘redneck’ is the same kind of offense as ‘n*****’? I have long thought you have a difficult time seeing things through the eyes of another, but you just convinced me it’s true.

Rethink this, please.

257 Killgore Trout  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:30:02pm

re: #242 Targetpractice

I just can’t get worked up over a TV show I’ve never seen or a radio show I never listen to. I’m secure enough in my own ideas and I have no desire to punish people who express theirs. My local halal market has great deals on spices. The owners probably don’t like gays much either, I shop there anyways.

258 Political Atheist  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:30:05pm

re: #252 Targetpractice

Perhaps you might consider engaging in a discussion.

That’s what this is. Or was.

259 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:30:06pm

re: #247 Political Atheist

The “N” word and redneck are both designed to insult, dismiss the other person as some lesser being. That is my context for the term. That’s my comparison. Just the slightest disagreement with the very angry response got quite the negative reaction.

Try them out separately. Go find a random black person and call him the n-word. Then do the same thing with the first rural southern white person you can find, call them a redneck. Take notes then come back and tell us how the two words are equivalent.

260 BeenHereAwhile  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:30:58pm

re: #172 Lidane

Sure. The whole thing is an overblown, entirely manufactured outrage.

He wanted off the show. He handed A&E a way for him to leave the show just in time for the holiday shopping season and for them to look good to the majority of their viewers and advertisers. Now everyone involved stands to make more money in the long run. It’s all win-win.

Maybe Phil just wanted to lose the beard.

261 Targetpractice  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:31:12pm

re: #255 Political Atheist

Look at the reaction above. It defies your contention. pointing out how this will put more money in the Robertsons pockets is hardly preaching. neither is just asking if a milder reaction might be reasonable. The idea is clearly unwelcome as hell.

What would have been a “milder reaction,” in your opinion? The “engaging in a discussion” bit is mealy-mouthed nonsense, the stuff of concern trolls. What do you think should have been done instead to make clear to Robertson that his opinion was not universal and others took offense to his views?

262 Lidane  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:32:00pm

re: #260 BeenHereAwhile

Maybe Phil just wanted to lose the beard.

263 Targetpractice  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:33:02pm

re: #257 Killgore Trout

I just can’t get worked up over a TV show I’ve never seen or a radio show I never listen to. I’m secure enough in my own ideas and I have no desire to punish people who express theirs. My local halal market has great deals on spices. The owners probably don’t like gays much either, I shop there anyways.

As Gene noted, the folks who are getting the most worked up over this incident are Phil’s supporters, not his critics. I can’t say as I’ve seen a “Fire Phil” petition being passed around or threats to boycott A&E if he’s allowed back on the air. In fact, I’ve not seen any response by his detractors that hasn’t been aimed at those who’ve gone bugfuck insane over A&E’s decision.

264 Political Atheist  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:33:18pm

re: #211 ObserverArt

Are you just seeing it one way though? How about letting it play out and see if it is another building block in things changing. Stuff takes time. You’d have to admit with what happened in a state like Utah today when viewed against Phil DuckHead it is going to make people really have to think and when viewed historically is another block in the building of gay rights.

Maybe they are a dynamic reflective of the times and the reactions on both sides are of that reflection. Ducks one day, two days later Utah. Rather dramatic.

If someone could plot out the line from say something like the Stonewall Riots in 1969 to where gay rights are this very day, I’d think you’d be impressed with that plot line and a rather rapid increase in the last say, five years. Is the reaction on that same kind of a line?

Just one way? Not at all. I just found the idea that engaging Phil Robertson as suggested might be better all the way around. This has proven rather… unpopular. There are reformed bigots, people who changed. What’s the best way to make that happen? maybe engagement ain’t such a bad idea. I’m having a hard time coming to the conclusion it’s a bad idea.

265 Charles Johnson  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:33:58pm

re: #254 GeneJockey

Sorry, but that comes across as a lot of self-serving tripe. The thing is, as I said - and you blew right by - there’s FAR less outrage on the Left for what he said than you’re making out. What he said was stupid and ignorant, and that’s pretty much what I hear people saying. MOST of what I hear people saying on the Left is responding to the hurricane of bullshit coming from the Right about his Freedom of Speech being trampled, and how persecuted Christians are.

Honestly, I only got interested in the story when I saw the right wing noise machine spring into high gear to defend this idiot. I find it fascinating to see this bizarre herding/flocking behavior that they have when their core issues are exposed. It’s like a human botnet. They get the signal from the central committee and immediately all of them, from the media to blogs to commenters, all start aggressively parroting the same talking points, effectively acting like a human wave DOS attack on sanity.

I’m making a scientific study of the phenomenon.

266 Political Atheist  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:34:27pm

I admit my “N” word comparison was an error, one I retract.
I do still think that redneck is an insult, and one that is used way too easily in general.

267 BongCrodny  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:35:42pm

re: #139 wrenchwench

[Embedded content]

When I think of “government waste,” Joe Arpaio comes to mind.

268 Targetpractice  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:36:01pm

re: #266 Political Atheist

I admit my “N” word comparison was an error, one I retract.
I do still think that redneck is an insult, and one that is used way too easily in general.

Then we’ll have to agree to disagree, as I don’t consider it much of an insult. Fact of the matter is, I know many rednecks, most of them in my family, who proudly revel in the word. Call it what you will, a frame of mind, a state of being, a way of life, it’s just something they don’t get worked up over.

Most of those who do seem to be the ones who get angry over pretty much anything.

269 HappyWarrior  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:36:38pm

re: #265 Charles Johnson

Honestly, I only got interested in the story when I saw the right wing noise machine spring into high gear to defend this idiot. I find it fascinating to see this bizarre herding/flocking behavior that they have when their core issues are exposed. It’s like a human botnet. They get the signal from the central committee and immediately all of them, from the media to blogs to commenters, all start aggressively parroting the same talking points, effectively acting like a human wave DOS attack on sanity.

I’m making a scientific study of the phenomenon.

Yeah me too. I am just amazed that people like the idiot running for Congress see a man who’s called out for saying something stupid like this as being akin to Rosa Parks. I don’t get where the idea that we want him “punished” or think he’s “evil” comes from. I just have an issue with my gay friends and family being likened to people who screw animals especially if it’s a cheap publicity stunt like this appears more and more to be.

270 AlexRogan  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:38:08pm

re: #205 Political Atheist

You are aware that the term redneck is an insult, a pejorative term for rural/southern people right? That’s a word that gets thrown around a lot, and not just since this came up. keep in mind I refer to the media and the blogs out there in general, not a complaint about LGF.

Why should a southerner be any less offended at “redneck’ coming from an angry broad brushing critic than an African American at the “N” word?

You live in Cali, right? Well, I live in the buckle of the Bible Belt and, nowadays, “redneck” is a mild insult, at worst, but is more often worn as a badge of pride. Even at its insult zenith, “redneck” has NEVER, EVER been on the same plane as “n**ger”.

Your argument is invalid.

271 Charles Johnson  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:38:14pm
272 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:38:24pm

re: #264 Political Atheist

Just one way? Not at all. I just found the idea that engaging Phil Robertson as suggested might be better all the way around. This has proven rather… unpopular. There are reformed bigots, people who changed. What’s the best way to make that happen? maybe engagement ain’t such a bad idea. I’m having a hard time coming to the conclusion it’s a bad idea.

You’re kind of presenting an either/or situation that doesn’t exist. I’m sure plenty of people would be happy to engage with Robertson, but it’s not incumbent on A&E to be those people. They have a brand to protect and shows in the future to produce that will be marketed to a wider audience than reactionary conservatives.

There haven’t been any liberal petitions or calls to fire the man, A&E jumped on the situation immediately and suspended him on their own, as a result of their own mental calculous. The only people freaking out are the typical Republican racists, like Sarah “Don’t retreat … reload!” Palin.

273 aagcobb  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:38:25pm

re: #73 wrenchwench

Not enough updings for this; I’m so happy for them!

274 HappyWarrior  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:40:21pm

re: #271 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

I wish we could get rid of reality TV all together. I miss the days where people got famous because of actual talent not being the celeb de jour that some TV execs wanted to make a lame show out of. I mean give me the day wheer someone becomes famous for a great acting job, a great LP, etc. Still happens but we live in the age of the invented celebrity.

275 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:40:42pm

re: #266 Political Atheist

I admit my “N” word comparison was an error, one I retract.
I do still think that redneck is an insult, and one that is used way too easily in general.

White trash would have been a better example. Still not equivalent, but better inasmuch as it’s literally calling the target worthless refuse.

276 GeneJockey  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:42:58pm

re: #265 Charles Johnson

Honestly, I only got interested in the story when I saw the right wing noise machine spring into high gear to defend this idiot. I find it fascinating to see this bizarre herding/flocking behavior that they have when their core issues are exposed. It’s like a human botnet. They get the signal from the central committee and immediately all of them, from the media to blogs to commenters, all start aggressively parroting the same talking points, effectively acting like a human wave DOS attack on sanity.

I’m making a scientific study of the phenomenon.

It’s true. I observed this in action while posting both here and at a conservative forum last fall and winter. VB would post a tweet from Bryan Fischer here, and within a few hours that same idea was being posted over there, and often as not my wingnut 2nd cousin in West Virginia was liking the same thing from a different source on Facebook. It never took more than a day to traverse the Wingnutosphere.

Sometimes it seems like there must be somebody whose job it is to think up all this shit and/or respond to the news, who then sends out the Outrages like the Wicked Witch sending off the flying monkeys - “Fly my pretties, FLY!!!!”

277 Political Atheist  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:43:30pm

re: #254 GeneJockey

How is this self serving? I got no skin in this game. I just found a less angry response to be interesting. I still don’t see a damn thing wrong with that.

Obviously both sides are screaming this out. What a rolling snowball, A&E suspends a suddenly truly problematic cast member, the right freaks, the left freaks out over the RW reaction, and the Robertsons take it to the bank.

Clickbait, ratings, merchandise sales, money money money. Maybe growing up in a media city has made it easier to see how outrage =cash.

278 RadicalModerate  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:43:31pm

re: #205 Political Atheist

You are aware that the term redneck is an insult, a pejorative term for rural/southern people right? That’s a word that gets thrown around a lot, and not just since this came up. keep in mind I refer to the media and the blogs out there in general, not a complaint about LGF.

Why should a southerner be any less offended at “redneck’ coming from an angry broad brushing critic than an African American at the “N” word?

Please tell me you aren’t being serious here.

The term ‘redneck’ was coined BY those rural white southerners and has been used proudly by them for generations. Not coincidentally, many of these same people wrap themselves in the Confederate battle flag as a symbol of “southern pride” also.

The same cannot be said about the genesis and usage of the “n-word” to describe African-Americans. It has ALWAYS been used in a pejorative context, in an attempt to dehumanize those individuals.

279 GeneJockey  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:44:01pm

re: #272 goddamnedfrank

You’re kind of presenting an either/or situation that doesn’t exist. I’m sure plenty of people would be happy to engage with Robertson, but it’s not incumbent on A&E to be those people. They have a brand to protect and shows in the future to produce that will be marketed to a wider audience than reactionary conservatives.

There haven’t been any liberal petitions or calls to fire the man, A&E jumped on the situation immediately and suspended him on their own, as a result of their own mental calculous. The only people freaking out are the typical Republican racists, like Sarah “Don’t retreat … reload!” Palin.

This.

280 erik_t  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:45:20pm

re: #277 Political Atheist

Obviously both sides are screaming this out

There you go again.

281 GeneJockey  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:46:44pm

re: #277 Political Atheist

How is this self serving? I got no skin in this game. I just found a less angry response to be interesting. I still don’t see a damn thing wrong with that.

I was referring to the way you wrote that particular post, which came across as if from the fainting couch.

Obviously both sides are screaming this out. What a rolling snowball, A&E suspends a suddenly truly problematic cast member, the right freaks, the left freaks out over the RW reaction, and the Robertsons take it to the bank.

Clickbait, ratings, merchandise sales, money money money. Maybe growing up in a media city has made it easier to see how outrage =cash.

Like I and other have been trying to tell you, there’s only one side screaming, and it ain’t us. This is why people are talking about the Magical Balance Fairy.

282 RealityBasedSteve  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:47:58pm

Well, I’ve got a new season of the BBC Top Gear to watch. I’ll be paying about half attention to the board tonight.

RBS
Little Green Footballs is the Best… Site… Ever. /jeremy_clarkson

283 BongCrodny  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:51:09pm

Up here in Maine, a guy created the “Redneck Olympics” a couple years ago, a three day yee-haw festival with such events such as a demolition derby, lawn mower races, pig roast and a “Very Wet T-Shirt Contest.”

About 2,600 people attended the first one; successful enough so that they’re planning the third one this year.

If “Redneck” is an insult, it’s a very mild one at best.

284 ObserverArt  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:51:20pm

re: #231 Lidane

THIS.

Comparing “redneck” to the N-word is absurd. Rednecks might be a stereotype, but they’ve never had a history of being physically and legally denied their lives and freedoms.

This will be a touchy comment, so excuse me, please.

Part of the the reason people refer to some as rednecks, bubbas and the like is based on their very own views on things like African Americans, Gays, non-believers, Yankees, northerners, city-dwellers and any other “others” outside their own group and thinking. It doesn’t always describe an area of the country as much as a line of thinking.

As a matter of fact, doesn’t red neck as a term come form outdoor workers/laborers like construction workers, brick layers, etc.?

(The above is open for discussion, or to be totally ignored. I am searching out the root of the term and how it came about. Call it a social study…)

285 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:52:21pm

re: #120 Aunty Entity Dragon

You may have missed out on all those church bombings, burnings and lynchings that were still happening around that time in the South.

I expect it will take the lines of county clerks martyring themselves by refusing to process the requests and thus wasting local and state taxpayer money in repeating court cases prosecuting them and/or fining the locality for not doing their duty.

286 Political Atheist  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:54:23pm

re: #268 Targetpractice

Then we’ll have to agree to disagree, as I don’t consider it much of an insult. Fact of the matter is, I know many rednecks, most of them in my family, who proudly revel in the word. Call it what you will, a frame of mind, a state of being, a way of life, it’s just something they don’t get worked up over.

Most of those who do seem to be the ones who get angry over pretty much anything.

I refer to when the term is used in anger. As a deliberate insult. All these terms can be used among friends. Bill Cosby objected to the N word as a black man speaking to black men, as does a music industry pal (Trendz of Culture) fame) of mine. But friends joke with it anyway. Do we disagree there?

287 aagcobb  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:55:20pm

re: #183 Lidane

“Because I’m a fucking moron” was apparently not nuanced enough for this guy:

[Embedded content]

He so missed it. Phil Robertson is Anne Frank, and A & E are the Gestapo.///

288 HappyWarrior  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:55:49pm

re: #287 aagcobb

He so missed it. Phil Robertson is Anne Frank, and A & E are the Gestapo.///

I am sure Glenn Beck has that already written.

289 ObserverArt  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:55:55pm

re: #237 Political Atheist

An insult is an insult.

What’s interesting is how unwelcome just the idea of engaging a man in the wrong to hope to change his mind is.

I give up. A less angry, less loud way is just not welcome.
Anger and the desire to punish wins the day. I Surrender to the heat of the moment. Shouted down.

In other words you don’t want to really discuss it. Calling everyone angry is a low way out. And you are talking about insults.

People around here are pretty damn sharp. I would think you’d relish that rather than bow out. I’ll just say, I was enjoying the discussion.

290 Varek Raith  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:56:41pm

re: #183 Lidane

Lolwhut

291 Flounder  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:57:24pm

re: #219 Zamb

not hate, just look down upon.re: #191 HappyWarrior

I look down on Phil’s worldview the same way I do a Islamic fundamentalist who thinks only the Quran can tell us how to live.

292 Targetpractice  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:57:56pm

re: #286 Political Atheist

I refer to when the term is used in anger. As a deliberate insult. All these terms can be used among friends. Bill Cosby objected to the N word as a black man speaking to black men, as does a music industry pal (Trendz of Culture) fame) of mine. But friends joke with it anyway. Do we disagree there?

Can it be used as an insult? Yes, I’d agree it can.

293 Lidane  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 3:58:30pm
294 ObserverArt  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 4:00:46pm

re: #255 Political Atheist

Look at the reaction above. It defies your contention. pointing out how this will put more money in the Robertsons pockets is hardly preaching. neither is just asking if a milder reaction might be reasonable. The idea is clearly unwelcome as hell.

Can you show me where anyone said that and not what you assume?

(And I know you bowed out…)

295 dog philosopher  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 4:00:50pm

The overnight ratings are in for Duck Dynasty. One week ago, DD topped all of cable’s ratings with 8.885 million viewers. Last night, they free fell down the list to 2.521 million viewers. That is a drop of 6.364 million viewers, or 71.6%

leading the freepers to twist themselves into knots trying to figure out if this is very good or very bad for them

296 RealityBasedSteve  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 4:04:32pm

re: #295 dog philosopher

The overnight ratings are in for Duck Dynasty. One week ago, DD topped all of cable’s ratings with 8.885 million viewers. Last night, they free fell down the list to 2.521 million viewers. That is a drop of 6.364 million viewers, or 71.6%

leading the freepers to twist themselves into knots trying to figure out if this is very good or very bad for them

I’m sure that once they get the ‘un-skewed honest ratings’ they are actually up 129%, but the lamestream media can’t report that since it’s not in their marching orders. ///

RBS

297 Varek Raith  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 4:04:54pm

re: #295 dog philosopher

The overnight ratings are in for Duck Dynasty. One week ago, DD topped all of cable’s ratings with 8.885 million viewers. Last night, they free fell down the list to 2.521 million viewers. That is a drop of 6.364 million viewers, or 71.6%

leading the freepers to twist themselves into knots trying to figure out if this is very good or very bad for them

Ouch for the network.

298 GeneJockey  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 4:05:58pm

re: #297 Varek Raith

Ouch for the network.

You don’t suppose that the payday for the Robertsons might also be tied to the ratings, do you?

299 Varek Raith  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 4:06:23pm

re: #298 GeneJockey

You don’t suppose that the payday for the Robertsons might also be tied to the ratings, do you?

Double ouch.

300 Targetpractice  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 4:06:37pm

re: #295 dog philosopher

The overnight ratings are in for Duck Dynasty. One week ago, DD topped all of cable’s ratings with 8.885 million viewers. Last night, they free fell down the list to 2.521 million viewers. That is a drop of 6.364 million viewers, or 71.6%

leading the freepers to twist themselves into knots trying to figure out if this is very good or very bad for them

If you want to make the argument that the show is a cash cow to A&E, strangling the cow to death is not a good way to do it.

301 Political Atheist  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 4:07:39pm

re: #198 gwangung

Over thinking that he’s an idiot and a bigot? Hell, no. Why are you complaining? Trying to muzzle our First Amendment rights?

Long as I can take potshots at a public figure and call it like I see ‘em…

Can you explain how just suggesting a less angry reaction as an alternative is trying to “muzzle” anyone? Or how the really angry reaction played into the Robinsons hands? I just don’t see it.

302 BeenHereAwhile  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 4:07:53pm

re: #220 goddamnedfrank

Just the entire history of slavery, post Reconstruction, Jim Crow and the resistance to the Civil Rights movement.

People being called redneck were never physically fucking hunted, lynched, denied the right to speak freely, assemble, vote, purchase certain homes, hold certain jobs, join most country clubs, eat at most resaurants, made to sit in the balcony or the back of the bus, on account of their skin color.

That was a seriously stupid fucking question.

In the early days of unionizing, strikers wearing red bandannas to ID themselves, were beaten, shot and killed.

In addition to the armed uprisings previously mentioned, there was also the Ludlow Massacre.

“Our women from Trinidad they hauled some potatoes
Up to Walsenburg in a little cart
They sold their potatoes and brought some guns back
And put a gun in every hand

The state soldiers jumped us in a wire fence corner
They did not know that we had these guns
And the red neck miners mowed down them troopers
You should have seen those poor boys run”

Woody Guthrie

303 Political Atheist  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 4:08:53pm

re: #298 GeneJockey

You don’t suppose that the payday for the Robertsons might also be tied to the ratings, do you?

Not from show to show. Season to season sure. Ordinarily these contracts are a season at a time with a framework for continuing or ending as per the studios decisions.

304 RealityBasedSteve  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 4:09:16pm

re: #300 Targetpractice

If you want to make the argument that the show is a cash cow to A&E, strangling the cow to death is not a good way to do it.

The main thing to look at, and I’m too lazy to research it quite frankly, is how did OTHER A&E shows do compared to last week. Should determine if it’s because the RWNJs are boycotting A&E, or is it pushback on DD?

RBS

305 Targetpractice  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 4:10:42pm

re: #301 Political Atheist

Can you explain how just suggesting a less angry reaction as an alternative is trying to “muzzle” anyone? Or how the really angry reaction played into the Robinsons hands? I just don’t see it.

What “really angry reaction” are you talking about? Again, there was no organized call, or even a disorganized one, to have Phil punished for his comments to GQ. A&E made a business decision after getting a call from GLAAD. Everything else has subsequently followed from that decision.

306 RadicalModerate  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 4:22:24pm

re: #295 dog philosopher

The overnight ratings are in for Duck Dynasty. One week ago, DD topped all of cable’s ratings with 8.885 million viewers. Last night, they free fell down the list to 2.521 million viewers. That is a drop of 6.364 million viewers, or 71.6%

leading the freepers to twist themselves into knots trying to figure out if this is very good or very bad for them

Were both last week’s and this weeks shows first-time broadcasts or was last night’s show a repeat?

I think it would be helpful if the ratings citation has a contextual basis to it - I say this because I don’t know the answer myself.

307 Feline Fearless Leader  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 4:23:02pm

re: #268 Targetpractice

Then we’ll have to agree to disagree, as I don’t consider it much of an insult. Fact of the matter is, I know many rednecks, most of them in my family, who proudly revel in the word. Call it what you will, a frame of mind, a state of being, a way of life, it’s just something they don’t get worked up over.

Most of those who do seem to be the ones who get angry over pretty much anything.

That might also fall into that sort of weird frame where groups can use certain terms self-referentially without major umbrage, but outsiders cannot use the same term without giving rise to a much more violent response.

308 abolitionist  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 4:34:38pm

re: #246 dog philosopher

even more generally, entertainment networks are allergic to rude language of any type

it used to be so bad that in the old days jack paar lost his job as host of the tonite show because he use the work ‘toilet’ on the air

but he didn’t whine about how he was ‘crucified’

Jack Paar was fired over having uttered water closet —not toilet. But your point was quite right.

309 wrenchwench  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 5:11:34pm
310 Political Atheist  Fri, Dec 20, 2013 6:02:46pm

re: #220 goddamnedfrank

Just the entire history of slavery, post Reconstruction, Jim Crow and the resistance to the Civil Rights movement.

People being called redneck were never physically fucking hunted, lynched, denied the right to speak freely, assemble, vote, purchase certain homes, hold certain jobs, join most country clubs, eat at most resaurants, made to sit in the balcony or the back of the bus, on account of their skin color.

That was a seriously stupid fucking question.

So if a man gets all up in your southern face yells you lousy worthless effing redneck, that man should be far less insulted than if it’s a black man and someone hurls the N word at him?

History aside, face to face it’s damn angry words. The intent is the exact same-To anger, insult, and do harm.

311 Uncle Obdicut  Sat, Dec 21, 2013 6:23:26am

re: #205 Political Atheist

Why should a southerner be any less offended at “redneck’ coming from an angry broad brushing critic than an African American at the “N” word?

Because black men and women used to be called ‘n*****’ while they were killed by mobs, killed by the state, while they were beaten and whipped in the fields, while they had their children stolen from them and sold, while they were raped over and over again.

312 Uncle Obdicut  Sat, Dec 21, 2013 8:27:37am

re: #311 Uncle Obdicut

Also black people were called n***** while they had firehoses turned on them for wanting to be treated like equals and called n***** while the police beat them down as they marched for voting rights, and black children had n***** shouted at them for going to school with white children.

313 Ryan King  Sat, Dec 21, 2013 8:33:37am

Southern stereotypes are the real problem today, now that racism is gone.

314 wrenchwench  Sat, Dec 21, 2013 8:51:45am

re: #310 Political Atheist

So if a man gets all up in your southern face yells you lousy worthless effing redneck, that man should be far less insulted than if it’s a black man and someone hurls the N word at him?

History aside, face to face it’s damn angry words. The intent is the exact same-To anger, insult, and do harm.

Are you retracting your retraction?

315 KiTA  Sun, Dec 22, 2013 9:43:29am

Why… why is this on autoplay? Gah.


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