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475 comments
1 Bubblehead II  Mon, Jan 13, 2014 9:04:50pm

Night Lizards. I came, I Read and I posted.

May the Deity of your choice smile down upon you and yours.

Youtube Video

2 Political Atheist  Mon, Jan 13, 2014 9:18:59pm

Nice how that looks like what it feels like sometimes. So anyway kickin’ back with some good beer, LGF and Bucketheads “Captain Eo’s Voyage”. That guy has some interesting guitar creativity going on. Srsly. Syd Barret meets Eric Johnson. Or something like that.

3 Kragar  Mon, Jan 13, 2014 9:27:57pm

Got to try and break out my Cadian shock troops get some pictures of them

4 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 13, 2014 9:33:11pm

re: #3 Kragar

Got to try and break out my Cadian shock troops get some pictures of them

Watch out for the Chaos Space Marines!

5 Kragar  Mon, Jan 13, 2014 9:35:08pm

re: #4 Dark_Falcon

Watch out for the Chaos Space Marines!

Those are in a different case.

6 darthstar  Mon, Jan 13, 2014 9:53:37pm
7 Lidane  Mon, Jan 13, 2014 9:53:58pm

Because an omniscient, omnipresent deity can’t tell the difference between Target and Kmart:

8 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave of the waffle light)  Mon, Jan 13, 2014 9:54:46pm

re: #7 Lidane

Because an omniscient, omnipresent deity can’t tell the difference between Target and Kmart:

[Embedded content]

God is a Hacker, and Snowden is his prophet…

9 piratedan  Mon, Jan 13, 2014 9:56:34pm

re: #8 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave of the waffle light)

onward Christian Hackers, typing off to war!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

10 AlexRogan  Mon, Jan 13, 2014 10:07:05pm

re: #6 darthstar

[Embedded content]

Even if the elderly ex-cop perp lives through the stress of a capital trial, the victims’ family likely will never get anything resembling justice for a senseless shooting & murder; he’s 71 now and time isn’t on justice’s side.

Has LaPierre or anyone else with the NRA piped up yet to remind us once again of the infallible and holy status of the Second Amendment and the obligation for all Americans to gun up?

11 Gus  Mon, Jan 13, 2014 10:20:44pm
12 Gus  Mon, Jan 13, 2014 10:24:28pm
13 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jan 13, 2014 10:38:43pm

re: #12 Gus

NOH8, unless of course they’re…

White, or Christian, or conservative, or from the South, or Texas. Yes, there’s plenty of hypocrisy but instead of leaning towards fewer targets of ridicule I’d rather see a wider field. Everybody should be open to being the butt of the joke on occasion. It’s the consequence of living in an open society.
A few months ago Dkos revised its hate speech policies with some interesting wording. It was something to the effect of “traditionally oppressed” targets were off limits. I assume that meant minorities, but it was ok for other groups (evangelicals, Southerners, etc). I don’t like having different rules for different people.

14 Gus  Mon, Jan 13, 2014 10:39:48pm

re: #13 Killgore Trout

White, or Christian, or conservative, or from the South, or Texas. Yes, there’s plenty of hypocrisy but instead of leaning towards fewer targets of ridicule I’d rather see a wider field. Everybody should be open to being the butt of the joke on occasion. It’s the consequence of living in an open society.
A few months ago Dkos revised its hate speech policies with some interesting wording. It was something to the effect of “traditionally oppressed” targets were off limits. I assume that meant minorities, but it was ok for other groups (evangelicals, Southerners, etc). I don’t like having different rules for different people.

Won’t happen.

15 AlexRogan  Mon, Jan 13, 2014 10:42:48pm

re: #12 Gus

[Embedded content]

16 Gus  Mon, Jan 13, 2014 10:57:10pm


Centigrade. Hot. Hot. Hot.

17 wheat-dogghazi  Mon, Jan 13, 2014 11:05:57pm

re: #16 Gus

Centigrade. Hot. Hot. Hot.

113-114 degrees F. Toasty

18 Gus  Mon, Jan 13, 2014 11:07:19pm
19 Gus  Mon, Jan 13, 2014 11:13:24pm
20 Gus  Mon, Jan 13, 2014 11:13:59pm
21 Gus  Mon, Jan 13, 2014 11:15:31pm
22 Gus  Mon, Jan 13, 2014 11:15:57pm
23 wheat-dogghazi  Mon, Jan 13, 2014 11:17:01pm

re: #20 Gus

I have teacher friends from the Sunshine Coast who spend their summer vaca in China just to enjoy “winter.” They usually teach for two weeks in Guangdong, where the temps are like spring or fall, then travel somewhere else. I’ve noticed they tend to avoid real winter conditions, like snow and freezing temps, though.

24 Gus  Mon, Jan 13, 2014 11:17:30pm
25 Gus  Mon, Jan 13, 2014 11:24:35pm
26 Gus  Mon, Jan 13, 2014 11:46:36pm

Queensland Police Harrassment

Youtube Video

QLD top cop to recreational riders: ‘I’m sorry’

Newman doesn’t like his own bike laws

27 Gus  Mon, Jan 13, 2014 11:51:10pm

Well now. Things are mighty different in Queensland for bikers.

28 Gus  Mon, Jan 13, 2014 11:51:54pm
29 Gus  Mon, Jan 13, 2014 11:55:47pm
30 Gus  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 12:00:53am

Equal Protection Clause

All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

31 Gus  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 12:03:29am

‘Night.

32 dell*nix  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 12:07:28am

Before the Wall.

A little history.

33 dell*nix  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 12:29:05am

Soviet War Memorial Berlin 1957

1957

34 dell*nix  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 12:46:39am

Inhabitants of the parking lot.

Some of the things that lurk in Houston.

35 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 1:43:41am

re: #34 dell*nix

Inhabitants of the parking lot.

Some of the things that lurk in Houston.

Looks like a puppet character from Labyrinth.

36 dell*nix  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 2:00:00am

re: #35 Dark_Falcon

A bit. Girlfriend sculpted it. Her health is too bad to do such work anymore.

37 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 2:07:48am

re: #36 dell*nix

A bit. Girlfriend sculpted it. Her health is too bad to do such work anymore.

Marvelous to see such talent. I hope she can regain some of her health and use it again in the future.

38 dell*nix  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 2:13:23am

re: #37 Dark_Falcon

With her age, high blood pressure and heart bypass I doubt that she will be able to. She sticks to crochet work now.

39 GlutenFreeJesus  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 2:33:28am

re: #28 Gus

[Embedded content]

***Oops. Meant to quote #29.***

There’s still snow on my lawn. Global warming is a lie!!!

/

41 dell*nix  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 2:43:15am

Salvaged a computer from the dumpster. The only useable part is the 6 gig hard drive. Plugging it into the usb port to see if I can reformat it to use as a backup drive. It had win95 on it so you can guess how old it was. Night all.

42 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 2:44:25am

re: #40 Varek Raith

Scientist claims that your cat thinks you’re an overgrown, clumsy idiot of a cat

Perhaps that why I get along so well with the middle child then, because we’re both overgrown, clumsy idiots.

43 Justanotherhuman  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 3:26:23am

This sleazebag is at it again. Taking a page from Assange’s playbook?

Kim Dotcom to launch New Zealand political party

bigstory.ap.org

Can’t believe the reporter is so naive with this statement:

“It’s not clear what policies the party will promote. Dotcom has been outspokenly critical of both liberals like U.S. President Barack Obama and conservatives like New Zealand’s Prime Minister John Key.”

44 Justanotherhuman  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 3:39:35am

In Russia, this guy is “undesirable” but Snowden isn’t?

US reporter Satter banned from entry to Russia for five years

voiceofrussia.com

“US journalist David Satter, a longtime critic of Russian President Vladimir Putin, said Monday he had been banned from the country in one of the first such expulsions since the Cold War. Satter, a former Financial Times and Wall Street Journal correspondent who published three books on Russia and the former Soviet Union, had been living and working in the country since September 2013 as an adviser for Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty.

“The US government-funded broadcaster said that the US Embassy in Moscow has been informed of the move and lodged a formal diplomatic protest.

“Embassy officials have sought and not obtained an explanation from Russian authorities.”

45 sattv4u2  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 3:41:37am

re: #44 Justanotherhuman

In Russia, this guy is “undesirable” but Snowden isn’t?

Snowden had (has) something of value that Putin would want IN
Satter has something of value that Putin does not want to get OUT

47 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave of the waffle light)  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 3:52:37am

re: #46 Varek Raith

Bob Woodward, Fox News, And How Gates’ Memoir Got “Hijacked”

Anything gets hijacked when it can be taken out of context to attack Obama.

48 Justanotherhuman  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 3:55:05am

re: #45 sattv4u2

In Russia, this guy is “undesirable” but Snowden isn’t?

Snowden had (has) something of value that Putin would want IN
Satter has something of value that Putin does not want to get OUT

I ask a lot of rhetorical questions. : )

49 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave of the waffle light)  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 4:01:00am

re: #48 Justanotherhuman

I ask a lot of rhetorical questions. : )

The point being, we cannot see anything other than expedient self-interest in any of these actions.

50 Justanotherhuman  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 4:07:12am

re: #49 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave of the waffle light)

The point being, we cannot see anything other than expedient self-interest in any of these actions.

Exactly. Satter can go on to other work elsewhere—he’s the lucky one.

The spy experts could be right—Snowden winding up an embittered drunk in Russia, with restricted movement, who didn’t profit as much as he thought he would from his crimes.

Does anyone else think it’s odd that Russia took Snowden in with no passport or even a visa to get into Russia? If Russia is about anything from foreigners, it’s quid pro quo, but more to Russia’s benefit than the schmuck they entrap. No one sees Russia as magnanimous toward foreigners unless they have something valuable to offer. And Snowden had plenty.

51 sattv4u2  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 4:10:34am

re: #50 Justanotherhuman

Does anyone else think it’s odd that Russia took Snowden in with no passport or even a visa to get into Russia

Not at all

I’m sure he was ,, umm,,, “interviewed” extensively during his “layover” at that Moscow airport. I’m sure during some of those “interviews” he wasn;t even aware that the person he was talking to was a Russian agent of some sort, but rather posed as a traveler, just killing time,,, engaging in small talk

52 Pie-onist Overlord  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 4:31:16am

DERP DERP HURR HURR

53 Pie-onist Overlord  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 4:33:13am

DERP DERP HURR HURR

54 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 4:38:18am

re: #53 Pie-onist Overlord

DERP DERP HURR HURR

[Embedded content]

Feminists hate a guy who coined the term “Feminazi” and responded to a woman testifying before Congress about how her college’s refusal to allow the health insurance they’re forced to purchase to cover birth control pills meant her roommate couldn’t afford the prescription needed to handle a very real medical problem by calling her a “slut” and accusing her of wanting others to pay for her sexual escapades?

Shocker.////

55 Uncle Obdicut  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 4:49:07am

Colbert’s joke about meth and West Virginia was in poor taste, and I’m surprised he made it, since one of the things i like about him is an underlying current of compassion that he has in his comedy.

Nonetheless, some people are reacting to the joke with pearl-clutching about the idea that it’s okay to make fun of some groups, and not others, and how horrible is that.

Of course it’s okay to make fun of some groups and not others. It’s far, far more okay to make fun of the powerful, the high and mighty, than it is the low and oppressed. This is exactly why the joke isn’t a seemly one: West Virginia is a suffering place. It’s why jokes about ‘white trash’ people aren’t cool, but jokes about country club people are.

56 Justanotherhuman  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 4:53:18am

I thought dedicated readers are dying off…

Oyster, a Start-Up for E-Reading, Raises $14 Million

dealbook.nytimes.com

OK, I have my own prediction: In a few years, smart phones will go the way of TV: The costs will rocket, thanks to the myriad apps available on a subscription basis, much as cable increased the cost of television, from no cost for transmission, except watching a few commercials, to the behemoth of cable channels we have today that can cost hundreds of dollars every month.

Not sure I want to be so tied to a small device that controls my habits so thoroughly.

And people want privacy?

Just as industrialization was co-opted by rightwing German politicians for their own purposes, I can see technology, while in a different era, being used the same way as a political expedient. See Assange and DotCom, Greenwald/Poitras/Snowden, etc. It’s right before our eyes.

Remember, Peter Thiel, libertarian honcho, is involved in funding this app, so you know it’s all about the money, not your rights.

57 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave of the waffle light)  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 4:53:38am

re: #55 Uncle Obdicut

Nobody is trying to repress or censor this sort of speech, especially when it is coming from a satirist and not an elected office holder.

They are simply wanting to hold people accountable for their utterances, but some people squeal like stuck pigs when they are forced to own up to their own indiscretions, to the point of denying that there was anything indescrete about them.

58 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 4:56:39am

re: #36 dell*nix

A bit. Girlfriend sculpted it. Her health is too bad to do such work anymore.

But if it asked you to pay the parking charge - you’d pay it!

59 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave of the waffle light)  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 4:57:17am

re: #58 Feline Fearless Leader

But if it asked you to pay the parking charge - you’d pay it!

Anything to make it go away…yes.

60 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 4:58:13am

re: #40 Varek Raith

Scientist claims that your cat thinks you’re an overgrown, clumsy idiot of a cat

And the Feline Research Council would be right in that regard. But they’re canny enough to keep silent and let you proceed with filling the food dish, emptying the litter box, and providing a nice heated cushion to nap upon.

61 Dr. Matt  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 4:59:16am

As predicted yesterday, the Teabag gun nuts are defending the Tampa movie theatre murderer under the premise that the victim shouldn’t have been texting. Dark falcon, suck a big fat one …..as usual you’re on the wrong side of reality.

tbo.com

62 Pie-onist Overlord  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:02:27am

re: #61 Dr. Matt

As predicted yesterday, the Teabag gun nuts are defending the Tampa movie theatre murderer under the premise that the victim shouldn’t have been texting. Dark falcon, suck a big fat one …..as usual you’re on the wrong side of reality.

tbo.com

HURR HURR IF ONLY THEIR WUZ A GUUD GUY WITH A GUN!!!!1!!!!1

63 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:08:00am

re: #61 Dr. Matt

As predicted yesterday, the Teabag gun nuts are defending the Tampa movie theatre murderer under the premise that the victim shouldn’t have been texting. Dark falcon, suck a big fat one …..as usual you’re on the wrong side of reality.

tbo.com

Read the article and that’s just… stupid. You *DO NOT* shoot someone due to some petty grief about texting before a movie starts. You reported him to the management - then you sit and wait. Or go sit somewhere else in the theater and wait. Cripes.

64 Justanotherhuman  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:09:01am

re: #55 Uncle Obdicut

Colbert’s joke about meth and West Virginia was in poor taste, and I’m surprised he made it, since one of the things i like about him is an underlying current of compassion that he has in his comedy.

Nonetheless, some people are reacting to the joke with pearl-clutching about the idea that it’s okay to make fun of some groups, and not others, and how horrible is that.

Of course it’s okay to make fun of some groups and not others. It’s far, far more okay to make fun of the powerful, the high and mighty, than it is the low and oppressed. This is exactly why the joke isn’t a seemly one: West Virginia is a suffering place. It’s why jokes about ‘white trash’ people aren’t cool, but jokes about country club people are.

I hate the term “white trash”. “Trashy” is perfectly fine because anyone can be trashy, even rich people (as we see all the time). It’s a judgmental term that assumes that poor white people aren’t worthy of any consideration, much as “ghetto” Blacks or other poor minorities don’t deserve anything, either.

I don’t like to think in racial stereotypes, and “white trash” is one of them. No doubt I’ve always been seen like that by my “betters”, too. It’s one of the reasons I have always, politically, thrown my lot in with other economically oppressed groups, not shunned them. I’ve learned from others, even as I became more educated and I value all of it. I’ve always thought more in class terms, not racial ones. Keeping people divided by race is just one way to keep poor people and the working class at each other’s throats while scrambling for the crumbs from the tables of the wealthy. At the same time, I know how difficult it is to persuade poor white people that they’re better throwing in their lot with poor minorities—their white skin is all they really have left to feel “superior” to them. Overcoming that notion is sometimes like jumping the Grand Canyon.

65 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:10:57am

re: #61 Dr. Matt

As predicted yesterday, the Teabag gun nuts are defending the Tampa movie theatre murderer under the premise that the victim shouldn’t have been texting. Dark falcon, suck a big fat one …..as usual you’re on the wrong side of reality.

tbo.com

“Responsible gun ownership.”

66 Decatur Deb  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:12:11am

re: #61 Dr. Matt

As predicted yesterday, the Teabag gun nuts are defending the Tampa movie theatre murderer under the premise that the victim shouldn’t have been texting. Dark falcon, suck a big fat one …..as usual you’re on the wrong side of reality.

tbo.com

Freepers just love gunowners, except LEO. Most likely because they still see themselves on the wrong side of the monopoly of violence.

67 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:16:04am

Good morning Lizards. 40s and drizzle here in Philadelphia.

Pot luck dinner at my cribbage club survived by the membership; e.g. my crock pot chili didn’t kill anyone. I’ll try harder next year. Came out pretty well and was spicy without being overbearing.

Now back to work on documentation and hoping that my email connection comes back on-line.

68 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:17:33am

Oh, and I got two more people referring to the Christie scandal as “Bridge-ghazi”. >:D

69 Pie-onist Overlord  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:20:41am

re: #66 Decatur Deb

Freepers just >love gunowners, except LEO & Blah people, & Brown people. Most likely because they still see themselves on the wrong side of the monopoly of violence.

70 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:23:51am

All kidding aside, what is going to prevent this case in Tampa from being a textbook self-defense “stand your ground” thing?

71 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:26:01am

re: #70 Feline Fearless Leader

All kidding aside, what is going to prevent this case in Tampa from being a textbook self-defense “stand your ground” thing?

Witnesses?

72 Pie-onist Overlord  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:26:29am

movie customers should be required to pass through a metal detector by the ticket collector station.

73 Varek Raith  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:28:03am

WTF is wrong with us?!

74 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:28:47am

re: #73 Varek Raith

WTF is wrong with us?!

That comment goes so well with the TLJ avatar.

75 Justanotherhuman  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:29:10am

re: #73 Varek Raith

WTF is wrong with us?!

Well, the RW has been poisoned with fear. Where have you been the last dozen years?

The RW and their cronies have been busy, busy boys.

76 sattv4u2  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:31:02am

re: #70 Feline Fearless Leader

re: #71 Targetpractice

Witnesses?

Nothing in the story indicates that the victim did anything but argue with the gunman

I think a large part of a Stand Your Ground defense is that you would have to show you thought your own life was in danger

77 Justanotherhuman  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:31:15am

re: #72 Pie-onist Overlord

movie customers should be required to pass through a metal detector by the ticket collector station.

I’d bet if more businesses had a “no gun” policy and held to it, they’d see their business increase. Shootings are not good publicity.

78 sattv4u2  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:32:05am

re: #72 Pie-onist Overlord

movie customers should be required to pass through a metal detector by the ticket collector station.

Why stop there then?

Why not grocery stores, malls, barber shops, pharmacies ,,,,,,,

79 Justanotherhuman  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:32:37am

re: #76 sattv4u2

Nothing in the story indicates that the victim did anything but argue with the gunman

I think a large part of a Stand Your Ground defense is that you would have to show you thought your own life was in danger

Yeah, that worked very well in the Zimmerman case.

It’s a very, very low bar in FL, evidently.

80 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:33:01am

The icing on the shit sandwich that is this shooting is that the shooter got to walk to the squad car uncuffed. I don’t give a fuck if he’s the goddamn president, he just shot two people, CUFF HIM!

81 sattv4u2  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:33:10am

re: #79 Justanotherhuman

Yeah, that worked very well in the Zimmerman case.

It’s a very, very low bar in FL, evidently.

Zimmerman didn’t argue Stand Your Ground

82 sattv4u2  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:33:45am

re: #79 Justanotherhuman

AND,,, as TragetPractice said, in this case there are witnesses,,, Zimm,,, not so much

83 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:33:56am

re: #81 sattv4u2

Zimmerman didn’t argue Stand Your Ground

On the grounds that the defense felt it was being rushed to trial and could not successfully prepare its case in time to present an SYG case at the court’s set date.

84 sattv4u2  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:34:12am

re: #80 Targetpractice

The icing on the shit sandwich that is this shooting is that the shooter got to walk to the squad car uncuffed. I don’t give a fuck if he’s the goddamn president, he just shot two people, CUFF HIM!

abso FRAKKIN lutely

85 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:35:09am

re: #78 sattv4u2

Why stop there then?

Why not grocery stores, malls, barber shops, pharmacies ,,,,,,,

Good question, why not? If a business has a “gun-free zone” sign on the front, it should take steps to enforce such a policy. If that means metal detectors and searching bags, so be it.

86 Justanotherhuman  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:36:00am

re: #81 sattv4u2

Zimmerman didn’t argue Stand Your Ground

No, he didn’t. He didn’t have to because it was implied in the pre-trial publicity and the jury bought into it.

87 sattv4u2  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:42:17am

re: #85 Targetpractice

Good question, why not? If a business has a “gun-free zone” sign on the front, it should take steps to enforce such a policy. If that means metal detectors and searching bags, so be it.

Agreed. We’ve witnessed (school shootings) that a sign alone means little to nothing (like a NO FOOD/DRINKS allowed signs and every day, you see people walking around with drinks, munching on something)

But slippery slope. What kind of society do we want where every door you walk through, you’re either wanded or walking through a decector

88 Lidane  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:44:32am

Sure, this makes sense:

89 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:44:38am

re: #87 sattv4u2

Agreed. We’ve witnessed (school shootings) that a sign alone means little to nothing (like a NO FOOD/DRINKS allowed signs and every day, you see people walking around with drinks, munching on something)

But slippery slope. What kind of society do we want where every door you walk through, you’re either wanded or walking through a decector

An honest one, if you put the sign outside saying “gun free zone.” It’s like a shop putting up a sign saying “All customers under video surveillance,” but no real security cameras in the store.

90 Pie-onist Overlord  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:45:01am

re: #77 Justanotherhuman

I’d bet if more businesses had a “no gun” policy and held to it, they’d see their business increase. Shootings are not good publicity.

There would be some huffing and puffing from “Molon Labe” wingnuts: HURR HURR BOYCOTT ALL TEH GUN FREE ZONES!!!!!1!!!

But that would be a good thing.

91 wheat-dogghazi  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:45:11am

re: #80 Targetpractice

The icing on the shit sandwich that is this shooting is that the shooter got to walk to the squad car uncuffed. I don’t give a fuck if he’s the goddamn president, he just shot two people, CUFF HIM!

He was an ex-cop, I think. They get special treatment, I reckon.

92 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:46:22am

re: #91 wheat-dogghazi

He was an ex-cop, I think. They get special treatment, I reckon.

Yep, like being allowed to carry a gun without a CCL, because they’re “trusted.”

93 Uncle Obdicut  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:46:24am

re: #87 sattv4u2

Agreed. We’ve witnessed (school shootings) that a sign alone means little to nothing (like a NO FOOD/DRINKS allowed signs and every day, you see people walking around with drinks, munching on something)

But slippery slope. What kind of society do we want where every door you walk through, you’re either wanded or walking through a decector

That’s a very good, strong argument for restricting gun ownership you’re making.

94 Romantic Heretic  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:46:53am

re: #6 darthstar

Another human sacrifice for the religion known as ‘America’.

95 Varek Raith  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:47:15am

re: #87 sattv4u2

Agreed. We’ve witnessed (school shootings) that a sign alone means little to nothing (like a NO FOOD/DRINKS allowed signs and every day, you see people walking around with drinks, munching on something)

But slippery slope. What kind of society do we want where every door you walk through, you’re either wanded or walking through a decector

As opposed to the current gun free for all?
Easy.

96 Pie-onist Overlord  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:47:50am

re: #87 sattv4u2

But slippery slope. What kind of society do we want where every door you walk through, you’re either wanded or walking through a decector

I’ve lived in Israel.

97 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:49:05am

re: #96 Pie-onist Overlord

I’ve lived in Israel.

Yeah, I’ve looked over Israeli laws concerning gun ownership. Any Democrat who proposed even one of them would be run out of D.C. on a rail.

98 Dr Lizardo  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:49:08am

re: #94 Romantic Heretic

Another human sacrifice for the religion known as ‘America’.

The Aztecs would be green with envy.

99 Lidane  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:49:42am
100 Decatur Deb  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:50:21am

re: #87 sattv4u2

Agreed. We’ve witnessed (school shootings) that a sign alone means little to nothing (like a NO FOOD/DRINKS allowed signs and every day, you see people walking around with drinks, munching on something)

But slippery slope. What kind of society do we want where every door you walk through, you’re either wanded or walking through a decector

If policy were set sanely, that would be an equation involving the real number of such threats and the realistically-determined effectiveness of such countermeasures vs the intrusion on personal freedom. We’re not about to run such an equation.

(In Israel, in the 1990s, we were quite used to the presence of overage mallcops with 9mm autos checking our bags at every theater and most large shopping centers. Kept down the smuggling of Good ‘n Plenty.)

101 Pie-onist Overlord  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:50:49am

re: #97 Targetpractice

Yeah, I’ve looked over Israeli laws concerning gun ownership. Any Democrat who proposed even one of them would be run out of D.C. on a rail.

Wingnuts have this fantasy that everyone in Israel just walks around with a bunch of guns.

102 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:53:13am

re: #101 Pie-onist Overlord

Wingnuts have this fantasy that everyone in Israel just walks around with a bunch of guns.

“The teachers all carry guns!”

Except that’s not true anywhere outside the Disputed Territories, and only if the teacher is a reservist and chooses to carry one. The now infamous picture of a teacher carrying a rifle is totally without context, as the class is on a field trip and she’s carrying that rifle as part of school policy. She’ll have to check it in when they arrive back at the school, it’s not hers.

103 sattv4u2  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:54:10am

re: #93 Uncle Obdicut

That’s a very good, strong argument for restricting gun ownership you’re making.

Somewhere along the line we’ve lost the delicate balance between reasonable restrictions and unfettered access

On the one side they’ve pushed too hard for limited to no restrictions
On the other side they’ve pushed to hard for onerous restrictions
I believe a citizen with no criminal (felony) record should be allowed to own a weapon
I do NOT believe he needs a tank
I doubt we’ll get back to the middle ground

104 Decatur Deb  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:55:30am

re: #101 Pie-onist Overlord

Wingnuts have this fantasy that everyone in Israel just walks around with a bunch of guns.

I did get quite tired of watching 19-yr old draftees in jeans and tubetops drop their M16s at the mall. After decades with the Army, you expect that sound to be followed by an NCO reaming someone out.

105 Varek Raith  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:57:07am

re: #103 sattv4u2

Somewhere along the line we’ve lost the delicate balance between reasonable restrictions and unfettered access

On the one side they’ve pushed too hard for limited to no restrictions
On the other side they’ve pushed to hard for onerous restrictions
I believe a citizen with no criminal (felony) record should be allowed to own a weapon
I do NOT believe he needs a tank
I doubt we’ll get back to the middle ground

We’ve been in the ‘unfettered access’ zone for decades.

106 sattv4u2  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:58:41am

And on that note, I have a report to write up if I want to get out of here at my “scheduled” time off (rarely happens ,, but ,, the romantic optimist in me hopes)

107 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave of the waffle light)  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:03:54am

re: #76 sattv4u2

Nothing in the story indicates that the victim did anything but argue with the gunman

I think a large part of a Stand Your Ground defense is that you would have to show you thought your own life was in danger

How can you tell in a darkened theater, especially in a crazy-ass state where every agressive, maniacal, meth-addled lunatic is packing a piece?

/

108 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave of the waffle light)  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:04:45am

re: #81 sattv4u2

Zimmerman didn’t argue Stand Your Ground

Nitpicking. It played in role in the case, namely, the reason he was set free without charges and no evidence was collected until long after the fact.

109 sattv4u2  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:06:38am

re: #107 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave of the waffle light)

How can you tell in a darkened theater, especially in a crazy-ass state where every agressive, maniacal, meth-addled lunatic is packing a piece?

/

That’s only half the residents

The other half are Hoveround drivers that have dinner at 4 p.m.

110 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:08:42am

re: #100 Decatur Deb

If policy were set sanely, that would be an equation involving the real number of such threats and the realistically-determined effectiveness of such countermeasures vs the intrusion on personal freedom. We’re not about to run such an equation.

(In Israel, in the 1990s, we were quite used to the presence of overage mallcops with 9mm autos checking our bags at every theater and most large shopping centers. Kept down the smuggling of Good ‘n Plenty.)

Did the G n’ P in a bag pocket look/feel too much like a loaded magazine?

111 darthstar  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:13:44am

Another Republican hoping “I hate brown people” will be a winning campaign slogan.

112 Decatur Deb  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:15:54am

re: #110 Feline Fearless Leader

Did the G n’ P in a bag pocket look/feel too much like a loaded magazine?

Nah. The guard just provided muscle for the concession stand. Going to the movies was still the most exposed we ever felt there—bus stations were bad, but we (DoD) weren’t allowed to ride the buses.

113 Varek Raith  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:17:37am

re: #112 Decatur Deb

Nah. The guard just provided muscle for the concession stand. It was still the most exposed we ever felt there—bus stations were bad, but we (DoD) weren’t allowed to ride the busses.

Concession stands are rackets run by the Mob™.

114 Uncle Obdicut  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:20:18am

re: #103 sattv4u2

Somewhere along the line we’ve lost the delicate balance between reasonable restrictions and unfettered access

On the one side they’ve pushed too hard for limited to no restrictions
On the other side they’ve pushed to hard for onerous restrictions
I believe a citizen with no criminal (felony) record should be allowed to own a weapon
I do NOT believe he needs a tank
I doubt we’ll get back to the middle ground

Nah, that’s facile look at stuff that misses an entire host of issues, and, as usual, the search for some mystical ‘middle ground’ is a deeply foolish one. The biggest problem is not related to regulation or lack thereof, it’s related to gun culture, most specifically our deeply stupid support for vigilantism. I remember, when I was a kid, gun culture being much more sober, calm, and non-nuts: I remember responsible gun owners counseling other people that they really didn’t need a weapon at home for self-defense since the odds against a situation arising were so high. I remember responsible gun owners cautioning others that carrying a gun around is silly without a very, very large amount of training in using it in emergent situations.

These days, gun culture largely encourages gun ownership by anyone, with the ludicrously low minimum of ‘no felonies’. Gun culture-fetishists defend people walking around with their AR15s strapped to their back. Gun culture comes up with paranoid fantasies about ammo and gun confiscation that are widely believed.

It’s got to change, and it’s up to really responsible gun owners to do it.

115 Backwoods_Sleuth  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:21:35am

Reading William Makepeace Thackeray’s “The Newcomes” and have learned an absolutely brilliant word:

Tartuffe: a religious hypocrite, or hypocritical pretender to excellence of any kind, from the name of the principal character (a religious hypocrite) in Molière’s Tartuffe (1664). Tartufferie

I believe the word is due for a return to modern usage.

116 Political Atheist  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:25:14am

re: #114 Uncle Obdicut

To call Satts regulation attitude facile is deeply unfair. Regulation is where we reign in the irresponsible in countless ways. Nobody I know calls DUI laws facile and claims the drinking culture has to change. The fact is both approaches are valuable and necessary. Gun ownership, drinking, how we drive our cars all matters to public safety and therefore calls for sensible laws and education promoting responsible use.

117 lawhawk  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:28:24am
118 Backwoods_Sleuth  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:30:03am

re: #117 lawhawk

[Embedded content]

119 lawhawk  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:33:11am

This afternoon at 3pm, Gov. Christie will be giving the state of the state address. Bring the popcorn and pass the beer. It should be a doozy.

On policy issues, there’s been a few hints and what he’s suggesting. He’s proposing a longer school day and school year. No word on how he intends to pay for it (though it’s ultimately the school districts and the 500+ municipalities that have to make that happen.

That’s likely to bring another contentious fight to Trenton. It’s all about details, and a SotS isn’t where you find details.

120 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:33:18am

re: #114 Uncle Obdicut

I’d argue modern gun culture is a volatile mixture of varying elements, chief amongst them being the idealized view becoming prevalent of the “real man” as a testosterone-fueled meat head who festishizes guns as a means of proving his masculinity, gun manufacturers who are boosting their profit margins by playing on the idealized view, and a media culture that makes billions annually portraying guns as mystical items that convey protective properties while also giving men the means to overcome deficiencies like being out of shape or not being skilled in unarmed fighting.

121 Political Atheist  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:34:08am

re: #108 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave of the waffle light)

Nitpicking. It played in role in the case, namely, the reason he was set free without charges and no evidence was collected until long after the fact.

Looked to me like his very visible injuries & racial factors played a bigger part in that than SYG. He had the appearance of being attacked via blood and swelling. . Whether they kept him in jail that night is not important. What is important is how they blew off the investigation.

Often enough a DA will file charges after a person is released. But only when a investigation provides enough evidence.

122 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:34:19am

re: #117 lawhawk

[Embedded content]

They started the wishing for its implosion months back, when it became clear the repeal effort was falling apart and not likely to yield fruit earlier than 2017.

123 darthstar  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:36:06am

re: #119 lawhawk

124 darthstar  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:37:15am
125 darthstar  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:38:40am
126 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:40:22am

re: #125 darthstar

[Embedded content]

Another reason to avoid Florida: Texting against the wishes of a gun owner brings the death penalty.

127 Varek Raith  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:41:49am

re: #125 darthstar

[Embedded content]

Facepalm.

128 Decatur Deb  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:43:01am

Coolest car commercial—Russian:

youtube.com

129 Uncle Obdicut  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:44:04am

re: #116 Political Atheist

To call Satts regulation attitude facile is deeply unfair.

Nope. I stand exactly by what I said: regulation is a subsidiary issue. The culture is the main issue. I’d be happy for us not to pass a single other law regulating the ownership of guns if we could address the yee-haw vigilante gun culture the NRA promotes.

Regulation is where we reign in the irresponsible in countless ways.

I didn’t say regulation was completely unimportant, though.

Nobody I know calls DUI laws facile and claims the drinking culture has to change.

I absolutely think we have severe problems with our drinking culture here in the US too, and we actually have done a lot to address it. “Alcoholism” used to be more of a figure-of-fun thing, a contemptible thing, before we realized how much of a bear it is and that combating it required more than ridicule. People have stepped up in designated driver campaigns and had a lot of success with stuff like that, too. It’s still a problem, and it still needs to be addressed more, but we’ve made strides.

The fact is both approaches are valuable and necessary. Gun ownership, drinking, how we drive our cars all matters to public safety and therefore calls for sensible laws and education promoting responsible use.

It seems like you just didn’t read my post or something. Nothing you’re saying here really intersects with what I said.

130 lawhawk  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:44:44am

re: #123 darthstar

Gov. Christie intends to reboot his governorship. In the starring role? Bruce Springsteen. Top advisors will be Jon Bon Jovi and Pauly Walnuts.

On second thought, Pauly Walnuts may be too close to reality.

131 darthstar  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:45:07am

Charlie Cook doesn’t think Christie was ever the GOP front runner.

nationaljournal.com

“Think for a moment who makes up the Republican Party, and most specifically the part of the GOP base that dominates the presidential nomination process. Think about the people they seriously considered for their party’s presidential nomination last time around. Think Michele Bachmann, Herman Cain, Rick Santorum, Rick Perry, and Newt Gingrich. Now, quickly, think Christie. Now think Sesame Street: ‘One of these things is not like the others; one of these things just doesn’t belong.’ It’s laughable that the party that has previously seriously considered some fairly inconceivable candidates as worthy of the GOP nomination would suddenly reverse course and head over to a center-right candidate such as Christie.”

132 darthstar  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:46:00am

re: #130 lawhawk

Gov. Christie intends to reboot his governorship. In the starring role? Bruce Springsteen. Top advisors will be Jon Bon Jovi and Pauly Walnuts.

On second thought, Pauly Walnuts may be too close to reality.

And Springsteen doesn’t really like him all that much.

133 Uncle Obdicut  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:46:54am

re: #131 darthstar

In a weird way, these scandals about Christie throwing his weight around and being a bully are probably helping him with his prospects for the GOP nomination.

134 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave of the waffle light)  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:47:02am

re: #121 Political Atheist

Looked to me like his very visible injuries & racial factors played a bigger part in that than SYG. He had the appearance of being attacked via blood and swelling. . Whether they kept him in jail that night is not important. What is important is how they blew off the investigation.

Often enough a DA will file charges after a person is released. But only when a investigation provides enough evidence.

Still, without SYG laws in place, there would have to be a homicide investigation at the scene of a homicide. That is part of the reasoning behind GYG legislation, to spare “heroes” like Zimmerman the onus of being investigated for killing someone.

135 lawhawk  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:47:22am

re: #132 darthstar

Little Stevie will make Bruce see things just right. /

136 Backwoods_Sleuth  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:48:23am

oh dear…

Action Zone Pants!

137 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:48:46am

re: #131 darthstar

Charlie Cook doesn’t think Christie was ever the GOP front runner.

nationaljournal.com

Charlie, we heard the same business in ‘12, that Romney wouldn’t win the nomination because he was too much of a moderate, the base would coalesce around somebody like Santorum or Gingrich and that would be the end of it. Instead, the “Not-Romney” crowd ended up wiping themselves out in a case of MAD and Romney coasted to the nomination just by being the guy who won enough delegates to qualify.

138 b.d.  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:49:28am

re: #125 darthstar

[Embedded content]

We really need a book of 21st Century manners to follow so that people won’t piss off responsibe gun owners enough so that they will shoot you.
//

139 Political Atheist  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:49:36am

re: #129 Uncle Obdicut

You called out Sat’s “middle ground” view of regulations facile. Demonstrably. it is not. California has a gun culture as strong as any, a very large number of gun owners, and strong regulation. The culture is the same the laws more strict. We enjoy a lower rate of gun violence than many states with lesser regulations.

Commute time BRB

140 Varek Raith  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:50:06am

re: #136 Backwoods_Sleuth

oh dear…

Action Zone Pants!

Rofl.

141 Decatur Deb  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:50:08am

re: #135 lawhawk

Little Stevie will make Bruce see things just right. /

Have you seen Netflix’ “Lilyhammer”? SVZ in a frozen mobster paradise.

imdb.com

142 darthstar  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:51:39am
143 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave of the waffle light)  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:51:50am

re: #131 darthstar

Charlie Cook doesn’t think Christie was ever the GOP front runner.

nationaljournal.com

It’s laughable that the party that has previously seriously considered some fairly inconceivable candidates

I could not get over the fact that Michelle Bachmann and Herman Cain were ever considered as serious candidates.

144 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:54:01am

re: #142 darthstar

[Embedded content]

You gotta be fucking kidding.

145 Varek Raith  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:54:07am

re: #142 darthstar

[Embedded content]

Well, there goes the irony meter factory.

146 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:55:21am

re: #145 Varek Raith

Well, there goes the irony meter factory.

147 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave of the waffle light)  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:55:36am

re: #144 Targetpractice

You gotta be fucking kidding.

It has to be out there as a talking point for other supporters to rally around and defend

148 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:56:21am

re: #147 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave of the waffle light)

It has to be out there as a talking point for other supporters to rally around and defend

Yeah, I kinda figured it was only a matter of time before “This is a witch hunt/fishing expedition!” would pop up.

149 lawhawk  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:56:56am

re: #133 Uncle Obdicut

Like most things relating to the scandal, it cuts both ways. The GOP wants someone who will bully through opposition and get what they want, but they don’t want someone who’s necessarily so petty as to demand cross-party endorsements.

Thing is, most endorsements count for little in the eyes of the public. It’s valuable to other politicians, but this wasn’t some Republican mayor who rebuffed the governor. It was a Democrat who wasn’t about to cross party lines to go for Christie over the Democrat candidate Buono.

It’s also the coverup that gets people, much more than the bridge traffic jams. Christie cultivated a notion that he was in charge and micromanaged, and yet his top officials were running rogue? That doesn’t quite pass the smell test, and that’s what has other GOPers running from him. You can’t have it both ways, which is what his epic 2 hour presser was about. Take the blame/buck stops here, but he didn’t really know what was going on in his office behind his back.

That’s even as others close to the governor, including former Gov. Tom Kean (his mentor) suggested that he was indeed a micromanager (though Christie sought to oust Kean’s son from a key Senate post and didn’t run hard to help state Republicans win more seats in Trenton).

It would seem that Christie’s top priority was maximizing his electoral margin, even if it meant distancing himself from the rest of the GOP on the ticket and browbeating Democrats into endorsing him.

I’m going to be interested in seeing how the GOP in Trenton react to the governor’s address today. That will give some measure as to whether he’ll be able to recover from the mess of his own creation.

150 lawhawk  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:57:48am

re: #141 Decatur Deb

Nope. Haven’t seen that.

151 darthstar  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:58:11am

re: #147 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave of the waffle light)

It has to be out there as a talking point for other supporters to rally around and defend

Maybe the guy’s just piling on while the media is receptive to Christie criticism. But really, what better time to do it?

152 Uncle Obdicut  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:59:35am

re: #139 Political Atheist

You called out Sat’s “middle ground” view of regulations facile.

Yeah. It’s completely facile. There’s no ‘middle ground’. If, for example, you live in an area with a lot of actual danger and long police response times, gun ownership is far more reasonable than it is out in the middle of a prosperous suburb.

Demonstrably. it is not. California has a gun culture as strong as any, a very large number of gun owners, and strong regulation. The culture is the same the laws more strict. We enjoy a lower rate of gun violence than many states with lesser regulations.

This isn’t what a ‘demonstration’ looks like, though. First of all, the claim that California has a gun culture as strong as any other is an assertion, an unproved one you’ve done nothing to support. Second of all, I wouldn’t call regulation of guns in California ‘strong’—while acknowledging they’re some of the strictest in the nation— but more ‘erratic’, since a CCW permit from Dog County is valid anywhere in the state. Finally, you can’t discount other factors that play into gun violence, which a simplistic approach of talking solely about regulations does.

But moreover, Californian gun regulation is only ‘strict’ compared to other states in the US; it’s not strict when compared to other countries, or to an abstract ideal. This is the basic problem with any facile ‘middle ground’ argument; the middle is entirely contextual, and carries no inherent meaning.

The change in gun culture since I was a kid needs to be reversed. Responsible gun owners, enthusiasts, salesmen, etc. need to get into the habit of discouraging people from owning guns. Most people don’t need guns. There needs to be honest about this in gun culture, and that honest is sorely lacking.

I’m kind of interested, though: you seem to be implying that the ‘strict’ regulations of California are responsible for the lower gun violence in California. Is that your argument?

153 Mattand  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:59:40am

re: #114 Uncle Obdicut

The biggest problem is not related to regulation or lack thereof, it’s related to gun culture, most specifically our deeply stupid support for vigilantism.

This. Right here, a thousand times over.

Way too many Americans think they are in constant danger of being robbed, attacked, murdered from the moment they wake up to the moment they tuck their Glock under the pillow at night.

We have a mindset that we need to have a gun on us at all time, regardless of the circumstances. It’s fucking ridiculous.

And before I get straw man-ed, I’m sure there are people who may actually need a gun for personal protection at all times. I’d argue those people are a tiny, tiny minority.

It’s got to change, and it’s up to really responsible gun owners to do it.

This is unfortunately is the same as moderate Republicans taking away control of the party from the Tea Baggers and Jesus freaks who run the show now. The moderates in both the gun owner community and the GOP are spineless gutless cowards for the most part.

They bemoan what the community has become, but go right on supporting the lunatics.

154 lawhawk  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 7:00:30am

re: #143 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave of the waffle light)

The following were considered credible candidates, even though they were extremists who had no chance of winning a national election:

Herman Cain
Rick Santorum
Michelle Bachmann
Luap Nor

The following were candidates who were considered credible candidates, even though they couldn’t generate any support within the GOP because they weren’t seen as sufficently extremist:
Rudy Giuliani
Jon Huntsmann

I’m sure there are others to add to the list

155 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave of the waffle light)  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 7:00:34am

re: #151 darthstar

Maybe the guy’s just piling on while the media is receptive to Christie criticism. But really, what better time to do it?

Yunno, payback is part and parcel of politics, and is to be expected when it is directed at individuals, such as other candidates or court nominees, but using thousands of commuters as pawns in a power play is not to be condoned.

156 Uncle Obdicut  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 7:00:52am

re: #153 Mattand

And ironically, a lot of the people who would have valid use for a firearm for personal protection are also ex-felons.

157 Dr Lizardo  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 7:01:12am

re: #136 Backwoods_Sleuth

oh dear…

Action Zone Pants!

I can only hope that’s some kind of clever parody ad done in a retro style.

My fear is that it’s real.

158 Decatur Deb  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 7:01:31am

re: #150 lawhawk

Nope. Haven’t seen that.

Think it’s Netflix only, two seasons so far. SVZ takes a Silvio character to great heights. He co-wrote, produced, did the (great) music.

159 Lidane  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 7:07:27am
160 Justanotherhuman  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 7:08:03am

I’m a shady multi-millionaire tech pirate who wants people to follow me and my vague political ambitions, so I think I’ll start my own party because you owe me, dudebro, for all that intellectual property you downloaded for free. You can’t live without my stuff. I’m above the law even as they try to convict me of various crimes. It’s not my fault the law can’t keep up with us!

I expect this to become a regular occurrence. In the US, they’re known as libertarians, but they’re all the same everywhere, just operating under different names—money grubbers who will even stoop to criminal behavior and who pretend they honor your “civil liberties”—as long as it makes them rich and/or famous. And they have plenty of money and help at least, if not actual legions of followers, and they might even be able to sway elections.

It’s the age of greedy narcissism posturing as “freedom” and it’s wearing me out.

More like the Mafia model, IMHO.

161 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 7:09:33am

re: #147 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave of the waffle light)

It has to be out there as a talking point for other supporters to rally around and defend

That’s why I wasn’t so happy when that Democrat NJ state legislator mentioned that Christie being complicit in the GWB thing was a impeachable offense. That it was was already sort of obvious, but coming out and saying it then started immediately turning the issue partisan instead of an investigation on the real issue of who caused the blockage and why.

162 Uncle Obdicut  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 7:09:46am

re: #158 Decatur Deb

Think it’s Netflix only, two seasons so far. SVZ takes a Silvio character to great heights. He co-wrote, produced, did the (great) music.

When I first watched it, it seemed like it was kind of slapdashedly poking fun at Scandawegians. Does it have more depth than that?

163 Varek Raith  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 7:09:58am

re: #159 Lidane

[Embedded content]

Jesus…

164 Backwoods_Sleuth  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 7:12:49am

re: #157 Dr Lizardo

I can only hope that’s some kind of clever parody ad done in a retro style.

My fear is that it’s real.

I’m quite confident that it’s parody.
The “Now with extra large snack sack” is the giveaway, if nothing else in the ad.
;=D

165 Archangelus  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 7:14:10am

re: #159 Lidane

[Embedded content]


What. The .F**K… o.O

166 RealityBasedSteve  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 7:15:56am

re: #164 Backwoods_Sleuth

I’m quite confident that it’s parody.
The “Now with extra large snack sack” is the giveaway, if nothing else in the ad.
;=D

But this one WAS real…

Disco’s Dead, Baby

167 Justanotherhuman  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 7:16:01am

re: #162 Uncle Obdicut

When I first watched it, it seemed like it was kind of slapdashedly poking fun at Scandawegians. Does it have more depth than that?

I thought it was awful. Mafia types are not my idea of a hero, or an anti-hero, either.

168 Decatur Deb  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 7:17:20am

re: #162 Uncle Obdicut

When I first watched it, it seemed like it was kind of slapdashedly poking fun at Scandawegians. Does it have more depth than that?

Becomes a morality play about the universal propensity for corruption. There are only two straight citizens in Lillehammer by the end of season 1. It is the most-watched show in Norway, produced largely by Norwegians. They are willing to laugh at their own excesses. The anti-nanny theme is pervasive, despite SVZ’s strong liberal intent. You have remember that the guy attacking the super-civilized locals is a Mafia murderer.

169 Justanotherhuman  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 7:20:32am

re: #168 Decatur Deb

Becomes a morality play about the universal propensity for corruption. There are only two straight citizens in Lillehammer by the end of season 1. It is the most-watched show in Norway, produced largely by Norwegians. They are willing to laugh at their own excesses. The anti-nanny theme is pervasive, despite SVZ’s strong liberal intent. You have remember that the guy attacking the super-civilized locals is a Mafia murderer.

“anti-nanny” just smacks of anti-feminism. So the message is, “We’re really not a bunch of bend-over-and-take-it pussies?”

170 Uncle Obdicut  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 7:21:15am

re: #168 Decatur Deb

I think I might enjoy it more if I were Norwegian, because it’s hard to tell what’s satire and what’s representation when you don’t really know the culture that well.

171 Backwoods_Sleuth  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 7:24:09am

Things are quiet on the Ring of Fire. Too quiet…
USGS earthquake map showing all magnitudes for the last 24 hours:

USGS earthquake map 011414

172 Decatur Deb  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 7:24:28am

re: #169 Justanotherhuman

“anti-nanny” just smacks of anti-feminism. So the message is, “We’re really not a bunch of bend-over-and-take-it pussies?”

The only straight locals are SVZ’s divorced single-parent girlfriend and the female chief of police. Most of the ‘nannies’ attacked are incompetent/corrupt male bureaucrats. The mafioso builds a hapless gang out of bikers, soccer hoodlums, dimwits, and other misfits.

173 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 7:25:45am

re: #171 Backwoods_Sleuth

Things are quiet on the Ring of Fire. Too quiet…
USGS earthquake map showing all magnitudes for the last 24 hours:

USGS earthquake map 011414

The dot in the middle of the Pacific plate is the “hot spot” currently located under Hawaii I presume?

174 Gus  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 7:28:24am
175 Decatur Deb  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 7:29:55am

re: #174 Gus

“Florida theater shooting raises questions about texting etiquette’

There are no smartphones in the Constitution !!1!

176 Uncle Obdicut  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 7:30:31am

re: #174 Gus

I dislike a lot of various breaches of etiquette, but I’ve never been tempted to open fire on anyone because of it.

177 Backwoods_Sleuth  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 7:30:32am

re: #173 Feline Fearless Leader

The dot in the middle of the Pacific plate is the “hot spot” currently located under Hawaii I presume?

Yes.

178 Internet Tough Guy  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 7:31:05am

re: #174 Gus

It is very rude to get shot during previews. Sometimes that’s the best part of the movie!

179 Justanotherhuman  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 7:31:13am

re: #172 Decatur Deb

The only straight locals are SVZ’s divorced single-parent girlfriend and the female chief of police. Most of the ‘nannies’ attacked are incompetent/corrupt male bureaucrats. The mafioso builds a hapless gang out of bikers, soccer hoodlums, dimwits, and other misfits.

Well, the series is a make-money scheme riffing off what the producers of the show think of Norwegian society, i.e., “nanny state”. It does have a right-wing slant to it, so reminiscent of RW politics everywhere. I thought both the females you mentioned were pretty weak characters who deferred to the Mafia “hero” a bit too much.

I suppose they missed this UN report from 2010 naming Norway as the #1 best place to live in the world.

content.usatoday.com

180 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 7:32:17am

re: #61 Dr. Matt

You can go fuck yourself with a pine cone. I did not in any way attempt to justify Curtis Reeves Jr.’s murderous act of shooting an unarmed man and his wife.

181 Gus  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 7:32:17am

2009: Iraq Vet Charged with Movie Theater Shooting

Some people are praising Cialella for defending movie-goers everywhere.

“AND WHO could blame him?” was the Wednesday headline in an Irish newspaper about our new local hero.

“A heartfelt congratulations to James Cialella, who has finally stood up to those rude, ignorant pigs who seem oblivious to the enjoyment of others,” said the column in the publication from Ireland.

“Our hero was watching the latest Brad Pitt vehicle, ‘The Strange Case of Benjamin Button’ … when a family sitting in front of him started chattering,” “James asked them to pipe down… but the noisy bunch persisted. So he did what any right- thinking person would do - he shot the father.”

182 Bulworth  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 7:32:23am

re: #174 Gus

The best only solution to a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a…oh wait.

183 Uncle Obdicut  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 7:33:34am

re: #180 Dark_Falcon

You can go fuck yourself with a pine cone. I did not in any way attempt to justify Curtis Reeves Jr.’s murderous act of shooting an unarmed man and his wife.

He didn’t accuse you of justifying it, though.

184 Gus  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 7:35:56am

re: #183 Uncle Obdicut

He didn’t accuse you of justifying it, though.

Then what “wrong side of reality” was DF on?

185 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 7:37:00am

re: #183 Uncle Obdicut

He didn’t accuse you of justifying it, though.

Some nuts on Facebook posting lame comments about the shooting doesn’t mean the NRA is going to defend it. I’m still surprised that they did, but I maintain that Reeves is not going to find the support that George Zimmerman received.

186 Justanotherhuman  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 7:38:01am

re: #185 Dark_Falcon

Some nuts on Facebook posting lame comments about the shooting doesn’t mean the NRA is going to defend it. I’m still surprised that they did, but I maintain that Reeves is not going to find the support that George Zimmerman received.

You really underestimate the venality of the NRA.

187 Decatur Deb  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 7:38:43am

re: #179 Justanotherhuman

Well, the series is a make-money scheme riffing off what the producers of the show think of Norwegian society, i.e., “nanny state”. It does have a right-wing slant to it, so reminiscent of RW politics everywhere. I thought both the females you mentioned were pretty weak characters who deferred to the Mafia “hero” a bit too much.

I suppose they missed this UN report from 2010 naming Norway as the #1 best place to live in the world.

content.usatoday.com

Season 2 gets rid of the US gang baggage, and picks up other themes. (Seen only two season 2 episodes, treating racism, exploitation of immigrants, and homophobia.) The difference is that the Norwegian kindergarten attacks racism with a puppet show. The mobster clubowner breaks the legs of the local klansman for attacking his black gay chef. It is one of those strories that definitely gets you sympathetic to the bad guy (Sopranos, Richard III). I imagine that by season 4 the mobster will be killed and the moral balance of the universe will be restored.

188 Uncle Obdicut  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 7:40:06am

re: #185 Dark_Falcon

Some nuts on Facebook posting lame comments about the shooting doesn’t mean the NRA is going to defend it. I’m still surprised that they did, but I maintain that Reeves is not going to find the support that George Zimmerman received.

So are you taking back your false accusation that he was saying that you’d justified the shooting?

The post also contained nothing about the NRA. You’re flailing.

189 Gus  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 7:40:55am

So we’re making this about DF? Seriously? Bye.

190 Pie-onist Overlord  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 7:42:23am

re: #153 Mattand

This. Right here, a thousand times over.

Way too many Americans think they are in constant danger of being robbed, attacked, murdered from the moment they wake up to the moment they tuck their Glock under the pillow at night.

We have a mindset that we need to have a gun on us at all time, regardless of the circumstances. It’s fucking ridiculous.

And before I get straw man-ed, I’m sure there are people who may actually need a gun for personal protection at all times. I’d argue those people are a tiny, tiny minority.

This is unfortunately is the same as moderate Republicans taking away control of the party from the Tea Baggers and Jesus freaks who run the show now. The moderates in both the gun owner community and the GOP are spineless gutless cowards for the most part.

They bemoan what the community has become, but go right on supporting the lunatics.

HURR HURR WE CAN HAZ ARE GUNZ!!!!!111 wHY SHUD WE SPEND ARE TAXPAYER DOLLERS ON 911 & POLICE WHO ALWAYS GITS THAT 2 LATE1!!!!! DEFUND TEH POLICE FORCE!!!!! LAZY YOONYUN THUGZ!!!11!!

191 Uncle Obdicut  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 7:42:28am

re: #189 Gus

You react so weirdly vehmently so often these days. There’s been a few posts about DF after he said something that’s not actually true.

192 Uncle Obdicut  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 7:43:08am

re: #185 Dark_Falcon

I do think that he’ll get less support than Zimmerman, though, especially since both people involved where white. You’re right about that.

193 Justanotherhuman  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 7:43:59am

Note to commenters who got their panties in a wad over this: No, it’s not the end of the world because it’s not the end of the legal battle.

Federal court strikes down FCC net neutrality rules

theverge.com

“A federal appeals court has struck down important segments of the FCC’s Open Internet rules, determining that the agency doesn’t have the power to require internet service providers to treat all traffic equally. The DC circuit court has ruled on Verizon v. FCC, a challenge to the net neutrality rules put in place in 2010, vacating the FCC’s anti-discrimination and anti-blocking policies, though it preserved disclosure requirements that Verizon opposed — in other words, carriers can make some traffic run faster, but they have to tell subscribers.”

Will have to find the ruling.

194 Ryan King  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 7:44:50am

re: #173 Feline Fearless Leader

The dot in the middle of the Pacific plate is the “hot spot” currently located under Hawaii I presume?

I farted.

195 Decatur Deb  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 7:45:17am

re: #192 Uncle Obdicut

I do think that he’ll get less support than Zimmerman, though, especially since both people involved where white. You’re right about that.

And the perp is an ex-cop. For all the classical attraction of the uniformed to authoritarians, the present RW has a very-anti LEO and even anti-military slant.

196 Justanotherhuman  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 7:46:36am

re: #195 Decatur Deb

And the perp is an ex-cop. For all the classical attraction of the uniformed to authoritarians, the present RW has a very-anti LEO and even anti-military slant.

Criminals are like that.

197 Uncle Obdicut  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 7:46:46am

re: #195 Decatur Deb

And the perp is an ex-cop. For all the classical attraction of the uniformed to authoritarians, the present RW has a very-anti LEO and even anti-military slant.

True, but I think they have a nostalgia for older-times cops, too. It’ll be interesting to see how that plays out.

It’s ageist of me, but I’m assuming that him being 71 had something to do with it. Aggression is, sadly, one of the signs of early-onset dementia and other cognitive problems that crop up around that time.

198 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 7:46:57am

re: #186 Justanotherhuman

You really underestimate the venality of the NRA.

There’s nothing to support here is the thing. This shooting is unjustifiable on its face, not the least because Reeves left the theater and then came back, negating claims of self-defense. Moreover, Reeves helped establish Tampa’s Tactical Response Team, which means he knew how to handle someone taking a swing at him without shooting (though by all accounts Chad Oulson took no aggressive action). Last and not least, there are several witnesses to the shooting, including the victims wife, who was hit in the arm by the bullet that killed her husband.

The NRA is not going to support Curtis Reeves Jr. They would only be hurting themselves if they attempted to defend his actions.

199 Pie-onist Overlord  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 7:47:44am

HURR HURR DERP DERP

200 Uncle Obdicut  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 7:48:12am

re: #198 Dark_Falcon

The NRA will make (false) claims that the shooting will be used to confiscate weapons or ammo or something, though.

They will still cold-bloodedly use the shooting as best as they can to their advantage, with no concern for actual responsible gun use or ownership.

201 Decatur Deb  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 7:48:19am

re: #197 Uncle Obdicut

True, but I think they have a nostalgia for older-times cops, too. It’ll be interesting to see how that plays out.

It’s ageist of me, but I’m assuming that him being 71 had something to do with it. Aggression is, sadly, one of the signs of early-onset dementia and other cognitive problems that crop up around that time.

So I get my ‘reduced capacity’ card in 16 months?

202 Uncle Obdicut  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 7:48:44am

re: #199 Pie-onist Overlord

HURR HURR DERP DERP

[Embedded content]

Do they think that people at worker-owned companies don’t get paid or something?

203 Pie-onist Overlord  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 7:51:19am

re: #202 Uncle Obdicut

Do they think that people at worker-owned companies don’t get paid or something?

YOONYUNZ want workers to be paid, so how does that make them COMMUNISTS!!!!!!

204 Backwoods_Sleuth  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 7:51:57am

There will be a live feed of Christie’s State of the State at 3 p.m.:

nj.com

Get your popcorn ready!

205 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 7:52:21am

re: #191 Uncle Obdicut

You react so weirdly vehmently so often these days. There’s been a few posts about DF after he said something that’s not actually true.

Obdi, if ‘Dr. Matt’ had said “DF, you’re wrong about gun nuts.” they I’d not have had the reaction I had. Instead he told me to “suck a big fat one” which he knew I would find insulting and spoke very belligerently. As a result I responded in a hostile manner to what I felt was a uncalled for insult. I had been polite and calm in my discussion about the shooting and I had done nothing to merit his insult and belligerence.

206 Uncle Obdicut  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 7:53:01am

re: #201 Decatur Deb

So I get my ‘reduced capacity’ card in 16 months?

This is actually an issue I’ve been thinking about a lot. Dementia can be very hard to treat, but it can be manageable and I’ve read stuff that says that involving the person from the beginning is the best possible road to take, that early detection gives the person a greater ability to deal with the emotional challenges. So I’m kind of strongly for testing older people at any point we can, but there’s already a gross dismissal of older people in US society that’s really dumb, and i don’t want to reinforce ‘old people are all senile’.

Again, a cultural problem; we need to value strong connections with older people more; a large part of the reason why we don’t is the disparity in wealth and simple inability to keep those connections strong. When you have to move around for work, and when the amount of money the elderly have to survive on is so low, you segregate geographically by age.

207 Justanotherhuman  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 7:55:13am

Another unnecessary police killing…with such obvious racist elements.

Family of unarmed North Carolina man killed by police files wrongful-death suit

usnews.nbcnews.com

White woman assumes Black man in distress is trying to rob her and calls cops.

208 Decatur Deb  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 7:55:36am

re: #203 Pie-onist Overlord

YOONYUNZ want workers to be paid, so how does that make them COMMUNISTS!!!!!!

Did you see the Russian car commercial at 128?

209 Uncle Obdicut  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 7:56:10am

re: #205 Dark_Falcon

Obdi, if ‘Dr. Matt’ had said “DF, you’re wrong about gun nuts.” they I’d not have had the reaction I had. Instead he told me to “suck a big fat one” which he knew I would find insulting and spoke very belligerently. As a result I responded in a hostile manner to what I felt was a uncalled for insult. I had been polite and calm in my discussion about the shooting and I had done nothing to merit his insult and belligerence.

And that’s fine. Call him out for that. I’d back you up on it, suck a big fat one is just dumb. But instead, you chose to give him back as good as he’d got, but the difference was that you claimed he’d done something he hadn’t: that he’d accused you of justifying the shooting. That’s a serious, serious allegation to lay against someone, and it was false.

I’m sorry that you’re being disappointed by gun-nuts right now, but as I’ve said, the gun culture in the US has gotten all screwed up, highly politicized. It’s yet another disservice the radicals who call themselves conservatives have done to our nation—and I’ll also admit that, as Frank often says, a lot of liberals have fallen into the rabbit hole too and concentrated on stuff like assault weapon bans that do nothing to address the real problem, the physical one of handguns and the cultural one.

210 Justanotherhuman  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 7:56:17am

re: #198 Dark_Falcon

There’s nothing to support here is the thing. This shooting is unjustifiable on its face, not the least because Reeves left the theater and then came back, negating claims of self-defense. Moreover, Reeves helped establish Tampa’s Tactical Response Team, which means he knew how to handle someone taking a swing at him without shooting (though by all accounts Chad Oulson took no aggressive action). Last and not least, there are several witnesses to the shooting, including the victims wife, who was hit in the arm by the bullet that killed her husband.

The NRA is not going to support Curtis Reeves Jr. They would only be hurting themselves if they attempted to defend his actions.

They won’t support the man himself, more than likely, but they will support the right of a retired 71 yr old man to CC and put others at risk.

211 Pie-onist Overlord  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 7:58:17am

HURR HURR TEH BLAHS IS TEH RACISTS!!!111!!!

212 Ryan King  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 7:59:09am
213 Justanotherhuman  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 8:00:28am

re: #201 Decatur Deb

So I get my ‘reduced capacity’ card in 16 months?

Yes, at going on 73 (next month), I find the older I get, the more my bullshit meter goes to the extreme. I put it down to having lived so long, and seen so much of it, lived through so much of it, I know I don’t have enough time left to indulge myself in it, and I’ve become more matter-of-fact.

But it can backfire, too, causing impatience, anger, and aggressiveness, although I wouldn’t hurt a flea. But anyone can snap, I suppose, given the right circumstances and frame of mind.

214 Bulworth  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 8:00:36am

re: #211 Pie-onist Overlord

Confirmed. FACT. /

215 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 8:01:30am

re: #206 Uncle Obdicut

Of note in this case is that Reeves’ son Mathew still lives in the area and works as a police officer for the Tampa PD.

That brings us to another point, though. I had previous mentioned that Curtis Reeves Jr. had been a key part of Tampa’s TRT (the TPD’s designation for SWAT). A man with that kind of history might well be unlikely to seek help for mental problems, since, as we have also seen with military personnel, seeking help is seen as evidence that one is less of a man. And we’ve seen too many times in the last dozen years how a current or former soldier’s refusal to seek help can turn tragic.

216 Decatur Deb  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 8:02:35am

re: #213 Justanotherhuman

Yes, at going on 73 (next month), I find the older I get, the more my bullshit meter goes to the extreme. I put it down to having lived so long, and seen so much of it, lived through so much of it, I know I don’t have enough time left to indulge myself in it, and I’ve become more matter-of-fact.

But it can backfire, too, causing impatience, anger, and aggressiveness, although I wouldn’t hurt a flea. But anyone can snap, I suppose, given the right circumstances and frame of mind.

If I were going postal, I’d have done it when my daughters were dating.

217 jaunte  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 8:02:39am

Express lane rage at Walmart: 77 year old vs. 65 year old.

MSNBC Video

The 65-year-old victim was in a motorized shopping cart purchasing items in the express lane when he noticed Golladay counting his items as he placed them on the counter.

When the number of items exceeded 20, Golladay began yelling at the victim saying he couldn’t use that register.

218 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 8:03:30am
219 Uncle Obdicut  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 8:03:47am

re: #215 Dark_Falcon

Yeah. This is one way that the GOP’s constant, silly attempts to reinforce traditional gender roles really winds up harming men, even though in general their policies are patriarchal and attempting to privilege men above women whenever possible.

I’m actually expanding on an essay I wrote about how men in our society are encouraged to abuse their bodies, that this is one clear, obvious way that patriarchy is bad for men.

220 kirkspencer  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 8:04:31am

re: #211 Pie-onist Overlord

HURR HURR TEH BLAHS IS TEH RACISTS!!!111!!!

[Embedded content]

So what, Bryan?
I mean, let’s assume for a moment that your claim is justified and not really based on an article that never even mentions the race of the name-callers.

So what?

221 darthstar  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 8:07:43am

re: #166 RealityBasedSteve

But this one WAS real…

Disco’s Dead, Baby

I wore those. And I wore them well.

222 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 8:08:27am

re: #221 darthstar

I wore those. And I wore them well.

Were recreational drugs involved?

223 lawhawk  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 8:09:34am

re: #222 Targetpractice

Were recreational drugs involved?

They weren’t recreational drugs. They were work drugs. / They worked, and I employed them on a full time basis. /

224 Varek Raith  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 8:09:36am

re: #221 darthstar

I wore those. And I wore them well.

My condolences.

225 darthstar  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 8:13:41am
226 geoffm33  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 8:14:26am

re: #211 Pie-onist Overlord

HURR HURR TEH BLAHS IS TEH RACISTS!!!111!!!

[Embedded content]

To what end? That is, IF it were true, what would that mean. That whites who are opposed to interracial marriage are justified in their belief? I am not clicking through to the blaze to find out if there is a point to the story. Past history indicates, yadda yadda.

227 RealityBasedSteve  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 8:14:32am

re: #211 Pie-onist Overlord

HURR HURR TEH BLAHS IS TEH RACISTS!!!111!!!

[Embedded content]

That’s funny. Took me 1 minute to get the results from the 2011 Gallup poll broken by race. Whites 86% approval, blacks 98% approval. But hats just me living in my evidence based world

RBS

228 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 8:15:13am

re: #210 Justanotherhuman

They won’t support the man himself, more than likely, but they will support the right of a retired 71 yr old man to CC and put others at risk.

Age as a number isn’t the issue. The issue is mental capacity. Letting retired law enforcement officers carry saves more lives than it costs I’m sure. Moreover, no matter which party holds the governorship, Florida is not going to start pulling CCW permits from retirees, there are far too many elderly in the state for that to be politically possible.

229 Uncle Obdicut  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 8:15:43am

re: #228 Dark_Falcon

Letting retired law enforcement officers carry saves more lives than it costs I’m sure.

Citation?

230 Justanotherhuman  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 8:16:10am

re: #228 Dark_Falcon

Age as a number isn’t the issue. The issue is mental capacity. Letting retired law enforcement officers carry saves more lives than it costs I’m sure. Moreover, no matter which party holds the governorship, Florida is not going to start pulling CCW permits from retirees, there are far too many elderly in the state for that to be politically possible.

The DMV requires more of the elderly to drive than the Sheriff’s Dept to carry a gun.

231 Decatur Deb  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 8:17:51am

re: #230 Justanotherhuman

The DMV requires more of the elderly to drive than the Sheriff’s Dept to carry a gun.

Alabama requires less of everybody to CC than to drive. (20 bucks, not a felon, Must Issue state.)

232 geoffm33  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 8:17:57am

Unrelated (definitely related) there is not enough coffee in the universe to get me through the day.

233 Varek Raith  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 8:18:55am

re: #232 geoffm33

Unrelated (definitely related) there is not enough coffee in the universe to get me through the day.

Ah, then the solution is simple.
Destroy the Universe.

234 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 8:21:09am

re: #225 darthstar

[Embedded content]

Sounds like a Dem aide blowing smoke to me. A rumor the Eric Cantor would pass a bill drafted by a Democrat isn’t a sign of a partisan attack and if Senate Democrats withdraw support of a sanctions measure they previously supported because the House Majority Leader was prepared to support it then said Senate Dems would look like a bunch of partisan hacks and posers.

235 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 8:21:57am

re: #229 Uncle Obdicut

Citation?

Nope. I’m asserting without evidence.

236 Bulworth  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 8:22:10am

re: #227 RealityBasedSteve

Hey now, Bryan’s “just asking questions”.

237 geoffm33  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 8:22:18am

re: #233 Varek Raith

Ah, then the solution is simple.
Destroy the Universe.

It’s on my to-do list :)

238 Pie-onist Overlord  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 8:23:27am
239 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 8:25:34am

re: #238 Pie-onist Overlord

[Embedded content]

I saw those signs last time I drove down the West Virginia Turnpike, which was roughly two years ago. If I’d rolled my eyes any more, they’d have popped out of my head.

240 Pie-onist Overlord  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 8:27:22am

Here’s a clearer image:

241 jaunte  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 8:28:37am

re: #238 Pie-onist Overlord

While Boehner said that somebody ought to be held accountable for the failure in oversight, the Speaker explained his party was focused on eliminating “cumbersome, over-the-top” regulations that were “costing the American people jobs.”
talkingpointsmemo.com

Maybe “if you can’t drink it, build a dike around the tank you store it in to contain a potential spill” or “inspect the tanks more often than every 20 years.”

242 Political Atheist  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 8:28:39am

re: #152 Uncle Obdicut

The gun culture in California shows itself pretty clearly. Gun ownership rates, number of gun ranges, ammunition and reloading sales etc. Hunting licenses. Look at those things and you will see our gun culture in scope and size.

My opinion on regulation is that it’s stupid to deny that regulations work. That a very general statement, so I’ll add that I assume the usual caveats apply. The regs have to be well crafted and well enforced.

Strict of course is a relative term, my intent was as you note meant on a national American scale, and with a nod to their effectiveness.

One undercurrent I think is out there in this discussion is the conflation of vigilantism and self defense. These are very different things. It’s not vigilantism to own a gun for self defense or even carry one via CCW permit.

It’s vigilantism if you go out there like Zimmerman did. Surely so. But he is not a typical of CCW permittee.

it is a matter of law that counties issue state wide permits for CCW. That lets local Sheriffs do the screening. CCW city by city is just a way to trip up law abiding permit holders. Or a very effective “poison pill” to the CCW process and use.

What makes this harder to discuss is the extreme rhetoric we do see from some in the gun community. “we don’t call 911” Ugh! But IMO they don’t really own the argument, the law does. I’m pretty sure the law demands a call to authorities in any shooting. Even the most clear cut and necessary self defense shooting that ever happened, still requires legal review.

Of course one can recognize it serves the gun ownership critics very well to seize the most extreme and foolish statements like that one above, and play it as if they do own the issue. Well the screaming fringe is not in charge of the worthwhile discussion or California law. Neither the pro gun fringe or the ban the guns fringe.

243 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 8:28:48am

re: #240 Pie-onist Overlord

Here’s a clearer image:
[Embedded image]

Meanwhile the facility that leaked hasn’t been inspected since 1991 and in fact operates under the ginormous regulatory loophole that it only stores the chemicals at the facility rather than manufacturing them there.

244 Pie-onist Overlord  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 8:30:11am

re: #243 Targetpractice

Meanwhile the facility that leaked hasn’t been inspected since 1991 and in fact operates under the ginormous regulatory loophole that it only stores the chemicals at the facility rather than manufacturing them there.

You could think that hiring more inspectors would CREATE JOBS.

245 Backwoods_Sleuth  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 8:30:26am

re: #241 jaunte

Maybe “if you can’t drink it, build a dike around the tank you store it in to contain a potential spill” or “inspect the tanks more often than every 20 years.”

And they KNEW that said containment dike was in need of $1 million in repairs, but just ignored the problem.

246 Varek Raith  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 8:31:07am

re: #243 Targetpractice

Meanwhile the facility that leaked hasn’t been inspected since 1991 and in fact operates under the ginormous regulatory loophole that it only stores the chemicals at the facility rather than manufacturing them there.

Free market Booya!

247 jaunte  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 8:31:49am

Think of all the jobs that building all those retrofitted containment dikes would create.

248 erik_t  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 8:32:08am

re: #244 Pie-onist Overlord

You could think that hiring more inspectors would CREATE JOBS.

Government jobs don’t count, unless they’re military or elected with an (R).

249 Uncle Obdicut  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 8:32:21am

re: #235 Dark_Falcon

Nope. I’m asserting without evidence.

Don’t do that. It’s fundamentally dishonest.

250 Justanotherhuman  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 8:36:43am

More stuff on Freedom Industries and the crooks who run it.

businessweek.com

Also,

wvgazette.com

Sort of like Mafia types being involved in “waste managment”, I’d say.

251 Uncle Obdicut  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 8:36:44am

re: #242 Political Atheist

The gun culture in California shows itself pretty clearly. Gun ownership rates, number of gun ranges, ammunition and reloading sales etc. Hunting licenses. Look at those things and you will see our gun culture in scope and size.

I don’t agree those things demonstrate ‘gun culture’. I don’t think you’re really understanding the point I’m making. I’m not talking about ownership rates. I’m talking about culture.

My opinion on regulation is that it’s stupid to deny that regulations work. That a very general statement, so I’ll add that I assume the usual caveats apply. The regs have to be well crafted and well enforced.

Okay. So the solution to America’s gun violence problem is increased, well-crafted regulation?

One undercurrent I think is out there in this discussion is the conflation of vigilantism and self defense. These are very different things. It’s not vigilantism to own a gun for self defense or even carry one via CCW permit.

I never said that it was, though. I said gun culture is highly supportive of vigilantism.

It’s vigilantism if you go out there like Zimmerman did. Surely so. But he is not a typical of CCW permittee.

I’m also not talking about what is typical. I’m talking about gun culture.

it is a matter of law that counties issue state wide permits for CCW. That lets local Sheriffs do the screening. CCW city by city is just a way to trip up law abiding permit holders.

You don’t think a city has the right, as they did back in the Wild West, to ask people to turn in their guns when they come in?

What makes this harder to discuss is the extreme rhetoric we do see from some in the gun community. “we don’t call 911” Ugh! But IMO they don’t really own the argument, the law does. I’m pretty sure the law demands a call to authorities in any shooting. Even the most clear cut and necessary self defense shooting that ever happened, still requires legal review.

Yes, but my point is about the culture, the “We don’t call 911” culture.

Of course one can recognize it serves the gun ownership critics very well to seize the most extreme and foolish statements like that one above, and play it as if they do own the issue. Well the screaming fringe is not in charge of the worthwhile discussion or California law. Neither the pro gun fringe or the ban the guns fringe.

The NRA is entirely mainstream US gun culture and they are extreme and foolish in their statements. They are very much a large part of the discussion, and pretending otherwise is silly.

252 erik_t  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 8:36:49am

re: #248 erik_t

Government jobs don’t count, unless they’re military or elected with an (R).

Also too: military jobs only count in the aggregate. Individual soldiers can generally still get fucked, just like the rest of us.

253 makeitstop  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 8:37:15am

I keep meaning to mention this, but it keeps slipping my mind.

One of NYC’s biggest news stations, 1010 WINS, has accepted a huge ad buy from NewsMax. At least twice an hour, listeners are being told that ‘politicians in Washington are plotting to take away your Social Security benefits’ in one ad and pitched to buy the ‘Obamacare Survival Guide’ book in the other. The first ad tells about how SS recipients have seen benefits rise by some small amount, while ‘food stamp recipients have seen their benefits rise over 30% during the Obama administration,’ while the latter threatens ‘massive fines and possible loss of your insurance!’

Fookin’ depressing. I’ve lost quite a bit of respect for WINS, but I guess they figure NewsMax’s money is a green as anyone else’s.

254 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 8:38:30am

re: #249 Uncle Obdicut

Don’t do that. It’s fundamentally dishonest.

It’s really more intuitive than anything else on that point, since there aren’t any studies I know of that deal with the matter of concealed carry by retired law enforcement officers.

255 Kragar  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 8:39:25am

re: #251 Uncle Obdicut

Missed you the other day. Glad to see you’re back on your feet.

256 erik_t  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 8:41:10am

re: #254 Dark_Falcon

It’s really more intuitive than anything else on that point, since there aren’t any studies I know of that deal with the matter of concealed carry by retired law enforcement officers.

“I wouldn’t be surprised if ________, although I don’t know where I’d find hard data. What do you think?”

Supposition is fine. Conjecture is fine. Label it as such.

257 Uncle Obdicut  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 8:43:15am

re: #254 Dark_Falcon

It’s really more intuitive than anything else on that point, since there aren’t any studies I know of that deal with the matter of concealed carry by retired law enforcement officers.

Intuition is a terrible approach to something like that. Police officers commit crimes about about the same rate as the general population, including violent crimes.

258 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 8:44:30am

re: #256 erik_t

“I wouldn’t be surprised if ________, although I don’t know where I’d find hard data. What do you think?”

Supposition is fine. Conjecture is fine. Label it as such.

Roger Wilco.

259 Justanotherhuman  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 8:45:03am

Woops!

Christie, Official Who Arranged Bridge Closures Were Together During Fiasco

blogs.wsj.com

“Mr. Christie’s office didn’t respond to questions about what he and Mr. Wildstein discussed. Mr. Wildstein did not respond to a request for comment.

“Also present with Mr. Christie that day were Bill Baroni, the authority’s deputy executive director, who was helping Mr. Wildstein manage the fallout from the closures among local officials, subpoenaed documents show. Also there was David Samson, the Port Authority chairman and close Christie ally, who has said he didn’t learn of the lane closures and traffic in Fort Lee, N.J., until an email from a New York port official ordered the lane closures reversed. Messrs. Samson and Baroni didn’t respond to requests for comment.

“Mr. Christie addressed Mr. Wildstein in a news conference last week, saying he had not encountered him “in a long time.”

260 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 8:45:48am

re: #257 Uncle Obdicut

Intuition is a terrible approach to something like that. Police officers commit crimes about about the same rate as the general population, including violent crimes.

I know its silly to ask this after what I just said, but what is your source for that factoid? Not trying to be hostile, but I hadn’t heard that before.

261 lawhawk  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 8:46:02am

re: #240 Pie-onist Overlord


Anti-fracking lobbying has been outspent 9-1 by the pro-fracking crowd.

262 blueraven  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 8:46:14am

What a fucking asshole

Frederic Dicker, a radio show host, top New York Post columnist and fierce gun advocate

The remark came while Dicker was discussing Gov. Cuomo’s State of the State address with political satirist Randy Credico. The subject turned to the governor’s SAFE Act gun-control legislation, passed in the wake of the Sandy Hook shooting.

“That was his anti-gun legislation, which he had promised not to do, but then he had a little convenient massacre that went on in Newtown, Conn., and all of a sudden there was an opportunity for him,” Dicker said.

Read more: nydailynews.com

263 Lidane  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 8:46:21am

re: #242 Political Atheist

One undercurrent I think is out there in this discussion is the conflation of vigilantism and self defense. These are very different things. It’s not vigilantism to own a gun for self defense or even carry one via CCW permit.

It’s vigilantism if you go out there like Zimmerman did. Surely so. But he is not a typical of CCW permittee.

The problem is that there is a whole lot of gun proaganda out there that tells people that owning a gun is essentially like having a magic talisman or a divine weapon like Mjolnir. People buy into it, too.

We’re constantly told by the nutters that gun owners immediately become smarter, sharper, and will know instantly how to defend themselves and their family just by virtue of the fact that they own a gun. They are able to instantly assess a situation and can outdo the best, most highly trained military sniper in their precision shooting to keep everything under control until law enforcement finally deigns to do their jobs. And if the government needs overthrowing? That AR-15 will immediately allow you to take on the US military.

There’s a very real culture of idiocy surrounding guns in this country. People think that gun ownership automatically gives them the right to be vigilantes. That’s a problem.

264 wrenchwench  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 8:46:57am

Youtube Video

Check out the audience at 2:20.

265 Bulworth  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 8:47:15am

re: #259 Justanotherhuman

I’d really be interested in hearing from the female staffer he fired who supposedly orchestrated the lane closures.

266 Justanotherhuman  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 8:48:12am

re: #265 Bulworth

I’d really be interested in hearing from the female staffer he fired who supposedly orchestrated the lane closures.

It was convenient that they had a female to throw under the bus, no?

267 Bulworth  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 8:48:13am

re: #262 blueraven

He sounds nice….

/

268 lawhawk  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 8:48:14am

re: #253 makeitstop

1010wins is part of a group of stations in the area with common ownership, including 880wcbs, TV-10/55, and WFAN. They’ll take money from anywhere, even if it’s spreading bunk.

269 Bulworth  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 8:49:00am

re: #268 lawhawk

All about serving the viewers and values and stuff. //

270 iossarian  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 8:50:07am

re: #269 Bulworth

All about serving the viewers and values and stuff. //

Information needs to be free. Why do you hate freedom?

271 Kragar  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 8:50:11am

Well, just learned our management totally sold us down the river.

We’re supposed to conduct 2 audits a month. The whole process takes about 5-7 business days. Our mandate is we check for vulnerabilities, then pass our findings onto the mitigation teams. The nature of our scanning means it doesn’t matter if the individual machines pass or fail, as long as the scan is conducted properly and we get over a certain percentage of machines on the network, our job is done.

They decided over the weekend our work is only valid if the machines all “pass” the security scans. We have no input into the mitigation schedule, so that means we have to scan over and over, hoping the mitigation teams did their jobs and hope we have enough machines which pass before we can say we successfully completed an audit pass.

Such fucking bullshit.

272 iossarian  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 8:52:13am

In the ongoing debate between responsible gun owners and concerned non-gun-owners, I see both teams are down one member today.

Only one of them’s dead though.

273 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 8:52:20am

re: #259 Justanotherhuman

Woops!

Christie, Official Who Arranged Bridge Closures Were Together During Fiasco

blogs.wsj.com

“Mr. Christie’s office didn’t respond to questions about what he and Mr. Wildstein discussed. Mr. Wildstein did not respond to a request for comment.

“Also present with Mr. Christie that day were Bill Baroni, the authority’s deputy executive director, who was helping Mr. Wildstein manage the fallout from the closures among local officials, subpoenaed documents show. Also there was David Samson, the Port Authority chairman and close Christie ally, who has said he didn’t learn of the lane closures and traffic in Fort Lee, N.J., until an email from a New York port official ordered the lane closures reversed. Messrs. Samson and Baroni didn’t respond to requests for comment.

“Mr. Christie addressed Mr. Wildstein in a news conference last week, saying he had not encountered him “in a long time.”

And the rabbit hole deepens. If Christie is really expecting this all to just go away with a 111 long “I’m sorry I got duped” whinefest, he’s sorely mistaken.

274 kirkspencer  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 8:54:01am

re: #242 Political Atheist

[massive snip by Kirk]
it is a matter of law that counties issue state wide permits for CCW. That lets local Sheriffs do the screening. CCW city by city is just a way to trip up law abiding permit holders. Or a very effective “poison pill” to the CCW process and use.
[another massive snip by Kirk]

(Edited the quote to isolate my response.)

I would argue that for the majority of the population the reverse is true - that putting county by county control trips up law enforcement.

The majority of our population is in cities that span multiple counties. Many of these cities’ laws span through their various counties.

275 Political Atheist  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 8:54:27am

re: #254 Dark_Falcon

It’s really more intuitive than anything else on that point, since there aren’t any studies I know of that deal with the matter of concealed carry by retired law enforcement officers.

If work is slow, I’ll get those numbers. I think the FBI might have them. But I agree with you the expectation of the behavior and responsibility of retired police is a cut above, not below normal expectations. Training and experience matter.And those guys are psych screened before they even become cops, at least in big cities.

276 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 8:56:28am

Here’s a gun story from outside the US that the group may find interesting:

Nirbheek, India’s first gun for women

LUCKNOW: Giving more power to women to defend themselves and as a tribute to December 2012 ganrape victim Nirbhaya, the Indian Ordnance Factory, Kanpur, has manufactured Nirbheek, a .32 bore light weight revolver, India’s first firearm designed for women. At 500 grams, it is also the first IOF handgun made of titanium alloy.

Priced at Rs 1,22,360, Nirbheek was launched on January 6 and has already received around 80 formal enquiries and over 20 bookings. “At least 80% bookings are from women licensees,” says Abdul Hameed, general manager of IOF. Described by arms experts as an Indian hybrid of a Webley & Scott and Smith & Wesson, for its simple mechanism and light frame, it is the smallest revolver made in India — an ideal to fit a purse or a small hand bag.

In a state where government offers arms licences as incentive to achieve wheat procurement and immunization targets, it is not surprising that a total of 11,22,814 persons have licensed arms as per the state home department records. This is over four times the count of firearms available with the Uttar Pradesh Police (2.5 lakh). Hence a ready market already seems in place for Nirbheek.

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

The hinge in front of the cylinder below the barrel reflect the fact that the Nirbheek, like all Webley-type revolvers is a ‘top-break’ design, with the barrel pivoting downward and the cylinder pivoting upward to eject spent cartridges.

277 lawhawk  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 8:56:43am

re: #262 blueraven

Dicker has become ever more cranky and right wing over the past couple of years. He’s a staple of Capitol politics in Albany, and he used to have some good insights about the back room dealings in the Capitol.

He’s also a pro-fracking advocate who doesn’t like Gov. Cuomo delaying the regs that would allow the fracking across the Marcellus Shale formation to move ahead in NY.

But he seems to have gone over the edge in recent years, and this is yet another example of his extremism.

And it’s not like kids aren’t dying on a regular basis in NYS from gun violence. Sure, it might not happen in mass-casualty attacks (spree/mass shootings), but a death here, a death there.

These are statistics from 2013 for NYC that include breakdown by age (and we can quibble over the age cohorts too, but it shows that school-age kids are dying regularly from firearms).

278 makeitstop  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 8:57:50am

re: #264 wrenchwench

[Embedded content]

Check out the audience at 2:20.

A whole new generation of Cracker fans! :)

That’s Frank Funaro, late of NY’s legendary Del-Lords, on drums.

279 Uncle Obdicut  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 8:58:58am

re: #260 Dark_Falcon

I know its silly to ask this after what I just said, but what is your source for that factoid? Not trying to be hostile, but I hadn’t heard that before.

It makes perfect sense if you think about it for a moment; cops are just people, too.

The information comes from research done by David Packman and published as Arguing the Case for Police Accountability. His old site appears to be down, so I can’t give web citation right now. The numbers he compiled simply by doing a sampling of violent crimes (gathered from the federal database) and examining their employment. What he found is that police commit violent crime at about the same rate that ordinary citizens do—and importantly, this rate is very, very low. We live in a very non-violent society, in general, and we’re at a trough in violence of all kinds.

Domestic battery makes up a larger than normal proportion of the violent arrests, which correlates with cops having more unstable marriages than the general population.

280 Lidane  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 8:59:43am

Because gay people objecting to Phil Robertson = Al Qaeda:

282 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 9:01:45am

OMG, scroll down!

It’s snowing again in my part of the world.

you?

283 iossarian  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 9:02:03am

re: #279 Uncle Obdicut

There you go again, with the “facts”.

I think it’s hilarious that we’re having a debate over whether it’s a good thing that fathers of 3-year-olds can be shot in movie theaters for using their call phones during a preview.

284 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave of the waffle light)  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 9:02:17am

re: #238 Pie-onist Overlord

Why do 300,000 people have to lose their drinking water before we start to understand what regulation is there for?

285 Uncle Obdicut  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 9:02:22am

re: #275 Political Atheist

If work is slow, I’ll get those numbers. I think the FBI might have them. But I agree with you the expectation of the behavior and responsibility of retired police is a cut above, not below normal expectations. Training and experience matter.And those guys are psych screened before they even become cops, at least in big cities.

Training and experience vary wildly, though. I don’t share your expectation, though I’d agree that the current case of an ex-SWAT guy you’d assume he’d have better judgement, which is why I’m wondering if dementia is involved.

A lot of cops (thankfully) go their whole careers without being in a weapon-drawing situation, because we really do have a generally safe society.

286 Backwoods_Sleuth  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 9:03:31am

Right now in Philly:

Approximately 150 Gallons Of Oil Spill Into Delaware River

287 Pie-onist Overlord  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 9:03:49am

re: #284 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave of the waffle light)

Why do 300,000 people have to lose their drinking water before we start to understand what regulation is there for?

HURR HURR WHAT WOULD U RATHER HAVE, DRINKING WATER OR A JRRB!!!!!1!!!

288 lawhawk  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 9:03:53am

re: #273 Targetpractice

Going back to NJ handling of Sandy damage waste hauling, there has been an ongoing issue over the no-bid contracts and how AshBritt calculated the costs to haul waste away from towns. AshBritt was the preferred option for the Governor, and some towns ended up using them and finding that they were costing far more than they should otherwise.

Federal investigators are questioning Christie administration officials over how they awarded a no-bid contract to a politically connected contractor to haul the mountains of debris left by Hurricane Sandy.

Initiated in May, the federal review followed weeks of intense public scrutiny over Gov. Chris Christie’s decision to award the Florida-based AshBritt Inc. a lucrative contract just days after Sandy struck. The Federal Emergency Management Agency had initially warned the administration that using a no-bid contract, especially over an extended period of time, could jeopardize federal reimbursements.

The investigation by the Office of Inspector General with the Department of Homeland Security was disclosed in a state comptroller’s report released Tuesday focusing on whether AshBritt overcharged eight shore towns. The report found the towns were mistakenly overcharged more than $300,000, but the errors were made by a group debris monitors, not AshBritt.

Christie spokesman Michael Drewniak confirmed that OIG had initiated an audit of the administration’s procurement process, but downplayed its importance, describing it as routine after disasters. He also noted that FEMA, which falls under Homeland Security, has stated publicly that it agreed the administration could move forward with the AshBritt contract.

Jared Moskowitz, a vice president with AshBritt, said last night the OIG audits “all disaster operations” and its inquiry in New Jersey was expected and not indicative of potential trouble.

The OIG does not discuss ongoing investigations. The office conducts thousands of investigations each year that often force towns to return federal dollars and, in some cases, result in arrests or indictments.

The Christie administration did not use AshBritt to clean up state roads, but the contract allowed municipalities, 53 in all, to hire the firm without bidding. Christie has said it gave towns devastated by Sandy speedy options to accelerate the recovery efforts. The OIG is investigating debris removal costs in at least two municipalities that employed AshBritt: Belmar and Beach Haven.

Taking the advice of former Mississippi Gov. Haley Barbour, Christie awarded AshBritt a no-bid contract two days after Sandy struck last October. Barbour is a founding partner in the lobbying firm that has represented AshBritt’s interests in Washington for a number of years.

New Jersey piggybacked off a 2008 contract the company had with Connecticut. AshBritt also had a standing contract with Delaware with lower rates than the Connecticut contract, but company officials but company officials said they could not rely on the Delaware rates because of the cost of doing business is much higher in New Jersey.

FEMA strongly discourages the use of “piggybacked” contracts and subjects them to greater scrutiny.

AshBritt had the highest rates of four contractors who bid for contracted work.

And all that follows a Record investigation that showed AshBritt’s debris monitoring companies playing fast and loose with the mileage calculations that go into the costs for hauling away waste.

289 Uncle Obdicut  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 9:04:07am

re: #283 iossarian

There you go again, with the “facts”.

I think it’s hilarious that we’re having a debate over whether it’s a good thing that fathers of 3-year-olds can be shot in movie theaters for using their call phones during a preview.

To be fair, we’re not. Nobody is debating that it’s a good thing that this can happen. Nobody around here, anyway. Out on the more diseased parts of the interwebs they sure are.

290 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 9:04:12am

re: #284 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave of the waffle light)

Why do 300,000 people have to lose their drinking water before we start to understand what regulation is there for?

Because it’s been over 50 years since the Clean Water Act was passed and so people take clean water for granted, working under the assumption that the “free market” has learned its lesson and now takes pains to ensure the cleanliness of the water supply on its own.

291 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 9:05:09am

re: #280 Lidane

Because gay people objecting to Phil Robertson = Al Qaeda:

[Embedded content]

A&E is so scared of Big Gay that it will begin airing a new season of Duck Dynasty tomorrow. Meanwhile at the SHOT Show in Las Vegas, Mossberg is showing off its line of co-branded Duck Commander firearms. Yes, Teh Ghey has its foes in fear of their lives.

/dripping

292 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 9:05:19am

re: #288 lawhawk

Going back to NJ handling of Sandy damage waste hauling, there has been an ongoing issue over the no-bid contracts and how AshBritt calculated the costs to haul waste away from towns. AshBritt was the preferred option for the Governor, and some towns ended up using them and finding that they were costing far more than they should otherwise.

AshBritt had the highest rates of four contractors who bid for contracted work.

And all that follows a Record investigation that showed AshBritt’s debris monitoring companies playing fast and loose with the mileage calculations that go into the costs for hauling away waste.

Like I said yesterday, death by a thousand cuts. It’s not going to be one big event that does Christie in, it’s going to be a lot of little ones that all end up burying his ass.

293 Uncle Obdicut  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 9:05:27am

re: #279 Uncle Obdicut

I’d also note one of the reason I like Packman is he published the stuff that disagreed with him. He actually thought he’d find a higher rate of crimes committed by cops than by ordinary citizens, found that it was about the same, and published that.

294 Kragar  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 9:05:27am

Megyn Kelly to Mitch McConnel: “IMPEACH HIM!”

When McConnell didn’t bring up the issue of impeachment himself, Kelly rephrased her question.

“We’ve had lawyers, constitutional lawyers come on this show and say, OK, so when that happens, when you have a president who, in your view or the view of some, is out of control in terms of overreach, you as the lawmaker really have two meaningful options,” she said. “And the main one that has been used historically is, try to impeach him!”

“I mean, is that ever considered?” Kelly asked. “As opposed to running into the courts and trying to get them to do it?”

295 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 9:06:20am

re: #294 Kragar

Megyn Kelly to Mitch McConnel: “IMPEACH HIM!”

She does understand that the House is the one that has to vote on articles of impeachment, right?

296 wrenchwench  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 9:07:13am

re: #278 makeitstop

A whole new generation of Cracker fans! :)

That’s Frank Funaro, late of NY’s legendary Del-Lords, on drums.

I was unaware of them. A quick survey shows they are kinda like the Ramones, if the Ramones knew how to play their instruments, and how to sing, and write good songs. (And I like the Ramones.)

297 Joanne  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 9:08:43am

re: #284 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave of the waffle light)

Why do 300,000 people have to lose their drinking water before we start to understand what regulation is there for?

You’re assuming people will understand or care. Even in WV, they realize their entire lives depend on coal, thus this, while being truly bad, is simply ‘unfortunate’.

As for the rest of the country, if it doesn’t directly affect them, how many of those who are anti-regulation, will change their minds? I am thinking a percentage of a single digit. If that.

298 Kragar  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 9:08:50am

re: #295 Targetpractice

She does understand that the House is the one that has to vote on articles of impeachment, right?

I don’t think understanding is part of the job at Fox News

299 Mattand  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 9:09:15am

Said it before, I’ll say it again: the 2nd Amendment needs to re-written to reflect a society where you can essentially walk into a store and leave with enough firepower to take out half the people in said establishment.

The amendment, as it stands now, reflects a world where if you managed to get off three shots in a minute (let alone hit your target), you were the freaking Punisher.

Will it happen? Probably not. Far too many 2nd Amendment radicals view things like 20 dead 1st graders as breaking some eggs to make the proverbial omelette.

300 geoffm33  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 9:09:52am

re: #295 Targetpractice

She does understand that the House is the one that has to vote on articles of impeachment, right?

Or that impeachment != removal from office.

301 Lidane  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 9:11:07am

re: #295 Targetpractice

She does understand that the House is the one that has to vote on articles of impeachment, right?

McConnell knows that the House would likely pass articles of impeachment no matter how stupid and flimsy just because Obama. He also knows it would be a massive waste of everyone’s time in the Senate AND it would be a disaster for the GOP in a midterm election year.

The jabbering imbeciles crying IMPEACH OBUMMER ZOMG need to get the fuck over it already. He’s not going anywhere until he leaves office and the next POTUS takes over.

302 Uncle Obdicut  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 9:11:41am

re: #299 Mattand

There’s another factor of guns from that era that I think bears in mind too, which is that they were dangerous to the user. You had to keep them in good working order, and even when you did, the gun simply exploding in your hand was a significant risk. Handling the raw gunpowder, rather than having it secured away in cartridges, was a big risk.

303 Kragar  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 9:12:07am

I caught some of a Fox News “report”, if you can call it that on their latest Benghazi screed, where they try to prove Obama was hiding something. They were trying to make a big deal about how the earliest military reports called it a terrorist attack, and later reports said it did not appear to have been a pre-planned attack, obviously proving the administration lied about … something. They went on for at least 5 minutes, before I turned them off.

I literally yelled at the radio, “It could have been both, you fucking morons.”

304 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 9:12:58am

re: #285 Uncle Obdicut

Training and experience vary wildly, though. I don’t share your expectation, though I’d agree that the current case of an ex-SWAT guy you’d assume he’d have better judgement, which is why I’m wondering if dementia is involved.

A lot of cops (thankfully) go their whole careers without being in a weapon-drawing situation, because we really do have a generally safe society.

I’m really beginning to wonder about that. I think it’s safe for some and not for others. A person not able to stand-up for their rights either with intellect, resources (lawyer) or physical strength is prey —more so now than we like to admit.

The predators are/have gained the upper hand and I’m pretty pissed about it. I do what I can.

305 Political Atheist  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 9:13:02am

re: #279 Uncle Obdicut

Of course cops are people. But unlike most of us they have been screened, trained and in terms of retired cops, have the benefit of decades of experience. I hope I don’t need a citation to show the validity of training and experience.

Trained in the law, trained with the guns, means we will have fewer bad incidents, but to expect a zero incident rate is silly.

306 Uncle Obdicut  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 9:13:12am

Oh and Dark, the main danger to retired LEOs keeping weapons is suicide, rather than homicide. Many LEOs struggle with PTSD, and it’s inarguable that using a gun as a method of suicide increases the lethality of suicide attempts by a large margin.

307 jaunte  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 9:13:29am

re: #303 Kragar

You have to wonder if they ever get tired of reporting exactly the same story for more than a year.

308 Uncle Obdicut  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 9:14:58am

re: #305 Political Atheist

Of course cops are people. But unlike most of us they have been screened, trained and in terms of retired cops, have the benefit of decades of experience. I hope I don’t need a citation to show the validity of training and experience.

You do. You’d need a citation to show how much training, for example, a guy who’d worked the evidence desk for twenty years before retiring really had. Most cops don’t routinely get into ‘tactical’ situations. It’s rare. Cops are much more about investigation than they are about active deterrence, and that’s what they’re mostly trained for.

Trained in the law, trained with the guns, means we will have fewer bad incidents, but to expect a zero incident rate is silly.

I’m not expecting a zero incident rate? I have no idea what you’re talking about here.

309 Kragar  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 9:15:16am

re: #307 jaunte

You have to wonder if they ever get tired of reporting exactly the same story for more than a year.

Also scattered in was “why didn’t the military have a unit ready to go?”

These people have no idea how big the world is and the logistics behind deploying forces globally.

310 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 9:15:37am

re: #299 Mattand

Said it before, I’ll say it again: the 2nd Amendment needs to re-written to reflect a society where you can essentially walk into a store and leave with enough firepower to take out half the people in said establishment.

The amendment, as it stands now, reflects a world where if you managed to get off three shots in a minute (let alone hit your target), you were the freaking Punisher.

Will it happen? Probably not. Far too many 2nd Amendment radicals view things like 20 dead 1st graders as breaking some eggs to make the proverbial omelette.

The right to self-defense does need clarification, IMHO. “Arms” changes meaning over time —used to mean swords, now guns —who knows what it will mean in 100 years.

311 Kragar  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 9:16:47am

re: #310 FemNaziBitch

The right to self-defense does need clarification, IMHO. “Arms” changes meaning over time —used to mean swords, now guns —who knows what it will mean in 100 years.

I have a God given right to subdermal plating and a positron blaster surgically implanted into my forearm.

312 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 9:17:08am

re: #303 Kragar

I caught some of a Fox News “report”, if you can call it that on their latest Benghazi screed, where they try to prove Obama was hiding something. They were trying to make a big deal about how the earliest military reports called it a terrorist attack, and later reports said it did not appear to have been a pre-planned attack, obviously proving the administration lied about … something. They went on for at least 5 minutes, before I turned them off.

I literally yelled at the radio, “It could have been both, you fucking morons.”

Yeah, I heard about the “declassified” transcripts earlier, about how this is now conclusive “proof” that they knew it was a terrorist attack before the President was briefed. How they knew is not questioned, nor is it addressed that initial conclusions are subject to alternation as information comes in and guesses are replaced with facts. But it wouldn’t surprise me that they queried the CIA on this in the initial rush and the CIA told them its cover story, that they’d “known” an attack was imminent and had been ignored.

313 Uncle Obdicut  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 9:17:37am

re: #304 FemNaziBitch

I’m really beginning to wonder about that. I think it’s safe for some and not for others. A person not able to stand-up for their rights either with intellect, resources (lawyer) or physical strength is prey —more so now than we like to admit.
.

The overall crime rate in this country, even against the weak and the less-than-bright, is very low. We should be glad of it.

The predators are/have gained the upper hand and I’m pretty pissed about it. I do what I can

I’m not sure what you mean. I know many physically weak people, many people without money, and many people of limited intellect who aren’t being attacked or victimized. Can you clarify?

314 Eclectic Cyborg  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 9:18:08am

re: #159 Lidane

Charles, this needs to be on the front page NOW.

Utterly deplorable.

315 Joanne  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 9:18:25am

re: #295 Targetpractice

She does understand that the House is the one that has to vote on articles of impeachment, right?

She might, but her audience probably does not. A win all the way around.

316 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 9:18:27am

re: #311 Kragar

I have a God given right to subdermal plating and a positron blaster surgically implanted into my forearm.

My ownership of a set of Stark Industries Mark VII power armor is protected by the 2nd Amendment!

317 Kragar  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 9:19:02am

re: #312 Targetpractice

Yeah, I heard about the “declassified” transcripts earlier, about how this is now conclusive “proof” that they knew it was a terrorist attack before the President was briefed. How they knew is not questioned, nor is it addressed that initial conclusions are subject to alternation as information comes in and guesses are replaced with facts. But it wouldn’t surprise me that they queried the CIA on this in the initial rush and the CIA told them its cover story, that they’d “known” an attack was imminent and had been ignored.

“Are we under attack?”

“Yes.”

“Is it by a conventional military force wearing uniforms?”

“No.”

“OK, terrorists then.”

318 Varek Raith  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 9:19:08am

re: #309 Kragar

Also scattered in was “why didn’t the military have a unit ready to go?”

These people have no idea how big the world is and the logistics behind deploying forces globally.

It’s all a freaking movie to them.

319 Varek Raith  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 9:20:18am

re: #311 Kragar

I have a God given right to subdermal plating and a positron blaster surgically implanted into my forearm.

And a nuclear dead man’s switch for the lulz.

320 Kragar  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 9:20:48am

re: #318 Varek Raith

It’s all a freaking movie to them.

They’re Uwe Boll fans in a Ken Burns world.

321 Lidane  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 9:22:04am

re: #307 jaunte

You have to wonder if they ever get tired of reporting exactly the same story for more than a year.

They’re just asking questions. Why do you hate America questions?

////

322 jaunte  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 9:25:18am

Dozens arrested for being gay in Nigeria

LAGOS, Nigeria (AP) — Police, working off a list of 168 suspects purportedly obtained through torture, are arresting dozens of gay men in Nigeria’s northern Bauchi state, human rights activists said Tuesday.

A new law in Nigeria, dubbed the ”Jail the Gays” bill, is encouraging the persecution of gays and will endanger programs fighting HIV-AIDS in the gay community, said Dorothy Aken’Ova, executive director of Nigeria’s International Center for Reproductive Health and Sexual Rights.

323 kirkspencer  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 9:26:19am

re: #305 Political Atheist

Of course cops are people. But unlike most of us they have been screened, trained and in terms of retired cops, have the benefit of decades of experience. I hope I don’t need a citation to show the validity of training and experience.

Trained in the law, trained with the guns, means we will have fewer bad incidents, but to expect a zero incident rate is silly.

Juxtapose this assertion (that the screening and training) with the study that shows police commit violent crimes at rates comparable to those of the general population. I see two hypotheses, neither likable:

1) Police are innately more likely to commit violent crime, but the training and screening reduces the actual commission rates;
2) The screening and training is ineffective in reducing the commission of violent crime.

oh - and 3) the study is wrong, of course.

324 Kragar  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 9:26:20am

These people always seem to think the initial reaction is the correct one, and that any indication that people have revised their opinion or statement once they got more information shows signs that a cover up was going on.

“Man, I think I heard a gunshot.”

“SOMEONE GOT SHOT!”

“Nah, wait. Its some kids messing around with fireworks.”

“What about the gunshot?”

“There was no gunshot.”

“WHAT ARE YOU HIDING, MURDERER?!?!”

325 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 9:26:41am

re: #302 Uncle Obdicut

There’s another factor of guns from that era that I think bears in mind too, which is that they were dangerous to the user. You had to keep them in good working order, and even when you did, the gun simply exploding in your hand was a significant risk. Handling the raw gunpowder, rather than having it secured away in cartridges, was a big risk.

I sometime have reflected on that fact as part of just how much more deadly even bolt-action rifle are over the guns of the Revolutionary War. I once made the point to someone when that person and I were discussing arms used during Mexico’s War of Independence in the first half of the 19th Century and those used in that country’s civil war of the 1910’s. I said this (approximately):

During the War of Independence, a Spanish soldier had a smoothbore musket which could fire 2 shots a minute on average. By contrast, Manuel Obregon’s men at Celaya [during the Mexican Civil War] used bolt action Mausers which could fire five times as many shots per minute [10 against 2] with six times the effective range [600 yards versus 100]. That’s a massive increase in firepower.

Moreover, self-contained metallic cartridges have a far lower failure rate than black-power rounds experienced. Back during the Revolution, if a Continental soldier fired 10 times, at least once and possibly 2 or 3 of those firings would be a literal ‘flash in the pan’.

326 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 9:27:31am

re: #313 Uncle Obdicut

The overall crime rate in this country, even against the weak and the less-than-bright, is very low. We should be glad of it.

I’m not sure what you mean. I know many physically weak people, many people without money, and many people of limited intellect who aren’t being attacked or victimized. Can you clarify?

Overall reported crime rate has gone down.

It seems that if a “weak” person get’s involved in the system, in many cases (and it seems to be isolated areas-not systemic) predators have a free hand. The article I linked before set me off.

It shouldn’t take journalists and public outrage to stop this shit.

327 jaunte  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 9:28:40am

Re Nigeria:

328 Lidane  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 9:29:08am
329 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 9:30:17am

re: #308 Uncle Obdicut

You do. You’d need a citation to show how much training, for example, a guy who’d worked the evidence desk for twenty years before retiring really had. Most cops don’t routinely get into ‘tactical’ situations. It’s rare. Cops are much more about investigation than they are about active deterrence, and that’s what they’re mostly trained for.

I’m not expecting a zero incident rate? I have no idea what you’re talking about here.

Though in this particular case, the former officer in question had helped form Tampa’s TRT and so had a great deal of relevant training. I know I already knew that, but I thought to bore repeating.

330 Uncle Obdicut  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 9:30:30am

re: #323 kirkspencer

Juxtapose this assertion (that the screening and training) with the study that shows police commit violent crimes at rates comparable to those of the general population. I see two hypotheses, neither likable:

1) Police are innately more likely to commit violent crime, but the training and screening reduces the actual commission rates;
2) The screening and training is ineffective in reducing the commission of violent crime.

oh - and 3) the study is wrong, of course.

I don’t think this works, though, because cops aren’t trained not to commit crimes. Cops are trained how to use their weapons, and what situations to use them in. That level of training is highly variable, as is the experience they receive.

The statistic about cops committing crimes at equal rates doesn’t really intersect with the issue of training.

331 erik_t  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 9:30:57am

re: #323 kirkspencer

Juxtapose this assertion (that the screening and training) with the study that shows police commit violent crimes at rates comparable to those of the general population. I see two hypotheses, neither likable:

1) Police are innately more likely to commit violent crime, but the training and screening reduces the actual commission rates;
2) The screening and training is ineffective in reducing the commission of violent crime.

I assume (perhaps wrongly) that the training is focused on how to react rationally to various scenarios and stimuli. Committing a violent crime is rarely an act taken in a rational state of mind.

It would not be surprising, and I don’t find it intrinsically concerning. Somewhat related, if we had training that efficiently and effectively made people less likely to act irrationally, I hope we would not confine that to police academies.

332 makeitstop  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 9:31:03am

re: #296 wrenchwench

I was unaware of them. A quick survey shows they are kinda like the Ramones, if the Ramones knew how to play their instruments, and how to sing, and write good songs. (And I like the Ramones.)

The Del-Lords were a great band. Surprisingly, the band was founded by Scott Kempner, who played in NYC proto-punk outfit The Dictators (alongside Twisted Sister bass player Mark ‘The Animal’ Mendoza).

The difference between The Dics and the Del-Lords is nearly too wide to measure. It was a total about-face stylistically for Kempner, and they turned into one of the prototypes for ‘Americana’ bands like Wilco.

I know most of the Del-Lords, as we used to play the same club on LI pretty often when they first started. Wonderful guys.

333 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 9:31:10am

re: #314 Eclectic Cyborg

Charles, this needs to be on the front page NOW.

Utterly deplorable.

I agree!

334 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 9:32:07am

re: #232 geoffm33

Unrelated (definitely related) there is not enough coffee in the universe to get me through the day.

Make a bigger universe next time.

335 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 9:34:20am

re: #243 Targetpractice

Meanwhile the facility that leaked hasn’t been inspected since 1991 and in fact operates under the ginormous regulatory loophole that it only stores the chemicals at the facility rather than manufacturing them there.

Hmm, does that apply for ammonium nitrate as well? If so, yikes.

336 Political Atheist  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 9:34:34am

re: #308 Uncle Obdicut

The fact that training and screening makes a difference needs citation? Dude your anti gun bias is showing. To get to particular numbers, sure but as a general established fact, training, screening and experience make a big positive difference. Cops, soldiers, first responders all have extensive training. Imagine what we would see if they did not.

A lot of gun training (safety and marksmanship) for civilians is derived from cops training methods as that provided the experience base for what works best.

Do you have a citation on self defense use vs suicide among retired cops that were in the evidence room as opposed to patrol or SWAT?

337 wrenchwench  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 9:35:46am

re: #332 makeitstop

The Del-Lords were a great band. Surprisingly, the band was founded by Scott Kempner, who played in NYC proto-punk outfit The Dictators (alongside Twisted Sister bass player Mark ‘The Animal’ Mendoza).

The difference between The Dics and the Del-Lords is nearly too wide to measure. It was a total about-face stylistically for Kempner, and they turned into one of the prototypes for ‘Americana’ bands like Wilco.

I know most of the Del-Lords, as we used to play the same club on LI pretty often when they first started. Wonderful guys.

I met David Lowery when we were both in college. I wouldn’t expect him to remember me, but he was a big admirer of my then-boyfriend, who was a musician. I like that Lowery is involved in seeing that musicians get paid.

338 Lidane  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 9:36:43am

Such a great headline:

339 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave of the waffle light)  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 9:38:13am

re: #302 Uncle Obdicut

There’s another factor of guns from that era that I think bears in mind too, which is that they were dangerous to the user. You had to keep them in good working order, and even when you did, the gun simply exploding in your hand was a significant risk. Handling the raw gunpowder, rather than having it secured away in cartridges, was a big risk.

This whole aspect of the “well regulated militia” is almost totally ignored in the discussion.

340 Backwoods_Sleuth  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 9:38:39am
341 lawhawk  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 9:39:36am

re: #309 Kragar

Also scattered in was “why didn’t the military have a unit ready to go?”

These people have no idea how big the world is and the logistics behind deploying forces globally.

Because the DoD has never had a ready reaction force to deal with this kind of situation. They created one after Benghazi, but the time to target is still likely to leave some facilities outside coverage in a reasonable period of time. They simply don’t have a Delta Force or SOG hanging out in earshot of a far-flung diplomatic outpost ready to respond to an attack of uncertain origin/nature/composition.

And we’d also have to ignore that the GOP in Congress refused to fully fund the State Department request for security enhancements at diplomatic facilities worldwide - including Libya.

No plan is foolproof, and no plan survives first contact. Yet, these mental midgets who aspire to some form of Benghazi conspiracy theory think that we’ve got plans for everything and that those up the chain of command are in possession of all facts, information, and total awareness of what everyone is doing at every moment. Even with current tech, there’s still a fog of war. Once you embrace that there are unknowns and uncertainties, and that there are limitations on what the military can do, Benghazi goes from being an Obama conspiracy to another in a long line of attacks on diplomatic postings by terror groups/insurgents/political opponents who outnumber the security contingent present.

342 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 9:39:40am

re: #335 Feline Fearless Leader

Hmm, does that apply for ammonium nitrate as well? If so, yikes.

IIRC, the West, Texas facility that exploded had also gone without inspection for decades because it was a storage facility, had no significant accidents, and was ruled by the EPA as not being dangerous.

343 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 9:42:01am

re: #333 FemNaziBitch

I agree!

I’m going to disagree. I don’t really think there’s anything wrong putting the Reddit logo on a rifle. As for the ‘upvote/downvote’ selector, I’d like to add a ‘spam the vote’ at the 3rd position then drop in one of these.

344 Uncle Obdicut  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 9:42:31am

re: #336 Political Atheist

The fact that training and screening makes a difference needs citation?

No, as I’m really clearly saying, assuming that a reitred LEO has recently recieved effective training in using their weapon in a crisis situation needs citation.

Dude your anti gun bias is showing.

This is sad.

To get to particular numbers, sure but as a general established fact, training, screening and experience make a big positive difference. Cops, soldiers, first responders all have extensive training. Imagine what we would see if they did not.

Again, cops have a lot of training in what cops do: investigate crimes. Cops do not spend a lot of time, aside from SWAT, in tactical situations. A lot of soldiers, too, have jobs that are not in the least bit about having to do actual fighting with a firearm. You’re treating ‘training’ as though it’s some sort of panacea that makes you better at everything. It’s not.

A lot of gun training (safety and marksmanship) for civilians is derived from cops training methods as that provided the experience base for what works best.

And I’m not arguing that retired cops aren’t better at gun safety. I’d be surprised if they weren’t better at gun safety and at marksmanship.

Do you have a citation on self defense use vs suicide among retired cops that were in the evidence room as opposed to patrol or SWAT?

… what the fuck? No, I don’t. I’m not making an assertion of any kind, except the obviously-true one that suicide is more lethal when you use a gun. I’m saying the assumption that a retired cop is going to be better at responding to an emergent tactical situation would need evidence, because cops, at the ends of their careers, tend not to be in confrontational situations. I really don’t get what is setting you off about this so much. I fully agreed that a well-trained cop—like this guy was, as a SWAT dude—could be generally assumed to be better at tactical response.

You’re consistently misreading everyone one of my posts.

345 Lidane  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 9:43:45am

Cue the ‘splodey heads:

346 Dr. Matt  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 9:43:54am

Shooting reported at New Mexico middle school

Another day in Duh-merica.

347 darthstar  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 9:44:48am

“Falling apart faster than a Chris Christie lie” could become a popular new phrase.

348 wrenchwench  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 9:44:56am

re: #346 Dr. Matt

Shooting reported at New Mexico middle school

Another day in Duh-merica.

Local report.

349 Pie-onist Overlord  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 9:45:48am

WTFITS

350 Kragar  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 9:45:49am

Staver: Dealing With ‘Homofascists’ Is ‘Almost Like Negotiating With Terrorists’ - See more at: rightwingwatch.org

On the “Faith and Freedom” radio broadcast scheduled to air tomorrow, Matt Barber and Mat Staver weigh in on the recent controversy surrounding “Duck Dynasty” to declare that the key lesson to be learned is that the “homofascists” are nothing but bullies who cannot and should not be negotiated with … just like terrorists.

351 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 9:46:16am

re: #345 Lidane

Cue the ‘splodey heads:

[Embedded content]

Yeah, saw that a couple days back. At the time, I questioned if the state plans to cover the wife’s medical costs until birth. I take it the answer was “No.”

352 erik_t  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 9:47:09am

re: #347 darthstar

“Falling apart faster than a Chris Christie lie” could become a popular new phrase.

…

“I have had no contact with David Wildstein in a long time, a long time, well before the election,” which was held Nov. 5, Mr. Christie said last week. “You know, I could probably count on one hand the number of conversations I’ve had with David since he worked at the Port Authority. I did not interact with David.”

LOL. Ruh roh, Chris.

353 Pie-onist Overlord  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 9:47:18am

re: #351 Targetpractice

Yeah, saw that a couple days back. At the time, I questioned if the state plans to cover the wife’s medical costs until birth. I take it the answer was “No.”

Also, how can a dead body metabolize the nutrients that are necessary for a developing fetus?

354 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 9:47:30am

re: #349 Pie-onist Overlord

WTFITS

[Embedded content]

It’s more efficient to just tell the Kochs to keep that shit in Canada.

355 Uncle Obdicut  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 9:47:50am

re: #353 Pie-onist Overlord

Also, how can a dead body metabolize the nutrients that are necessary for a developing fetus?

There is a pretty near-certainty that the fetus has had some sort of brain damage during the heart-attack the mother suffered.

356 RealityBasedSteve  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 9:47:52am

re: #342 Targetpractice

IIRC, the West, Texas facility that exploded had also gone without inspection for decades because it was a storage facility, had no significant accidents, and was ruled by the EPA as not being dangerous.

And the position espoused by Ron Paul, and embraced by the TP is to eliminate the EPA. Paul says that companies that pollute can be punished by lawsuits by property owners who are affected. Needless to say, that’s a rather poor approach.

RBS

357 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 9:47:53am

re: #339 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave of the waffle light)

This whole aspect of the “well regulated militia” is almost totally ignored in the discussion.

because that takes the “right to self-defense” out of the equation.

It’s a big deal and needs to be clarified in the law. Even tho the Constitution is meant to limit government, humans are humans.

358 Political Atheist  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 9:47:56am

re: #339 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave of the waffle light)

We have a Supreme court decision that resolved that in a legal sense. Self defense, not a militia is what makes the 2nd an individual right.

359 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 9:48:39am

re: #348 wrenchwench

Local report.

Looks like it might have been gang-related.

360 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 9:48:51am

re: #343 Dark_Falcon

I’m going to disagree. I don’t really think there’s anything wrong putting the Reddit logo on a rifle. As for the ‘upvote/downvote’ selector, I’d like to add a ‘spam the vote’ at the 3rd position then drop in one of these.

Did you read the article, it’s about more than the logo.

361 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 9:49:38am

re: #345 Lidane

Cue the ‘splodey heads:

[Embedded content]

This is one my list of Things That Make Me Want To Scream.

362 Varek Raith  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 9:49:40am

re: #349 Pie-onist Overlord

WTFITS

[Embedded content]

Uh… We use diesel…
…
..
.
Never mind,

363 Eclectic Cyborg  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 9:49:47am

re: #359 Dark_Falcon

Looks like it might have been gang-related.

Black thugs!

364 wrenchwench  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 9:50:07am

re: #359 Dark_Falcon

Looks like it might have been gang-related.

Also, too: Gun-related.

365 Uncle Obdicut  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 9:50:24am

re: #358 Political Atheist

We have a Supreme court decision that resolved that in a legal sense. Self defense, not a militia is what makes the 2nd an individual right.

And there may, at one point, be a supreme court decision that reverses that. Staking all your hopes on a supreme court decision is not a good long-term strategy. Supreme Court decisions are powerful and lasting, but they’re not forever. In a way, the argument that self-defense is the standing right is a declaration the 2nd amendment is irrelevant to the question, that instead the right to self-defense with a gun is presumed on general rights.

366 Eclectic Cyborg  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 9:50:27am

re: #361 FemNaziBitch

This is one my list of Things That Make Me Want To Scream.

I am a Christian, but I do not believe a woman’s life should be unfairly held in the balance because of a law.

367 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 9:50:40am

re: #360 FemNaziBitch

Did you read the article, it’s about more than the logo.

I know, and I originally wrote the post to reflect that. But then I edited because I decided to go for a cheap laugh.

368 Pie-onist Overlord  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 9:51:44am

HURR HURR

369 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 9:52:12am

re: #366 Eclectic Cyborg

I am a Christian, but I do not believe a woman’s life should be unfairly held in the balance because of a law.

What life? SHE IS DEAD.

Using her body as an incubator is beyond illegal, it’s morbid.

370 Eclectic Cyborg  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 9:52:25am

re: #368 Pie-onist Overlord

Boy, Jim doesn’t really understand how an investigation works, does he?

371 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 9:53:02am

re: #355 Uncle Obdicut

There is a pretty near-certainty that the fetus has had some sort of brain damage during the heart-attack the mother suffered.

Which leaves the husband not only paying to keep his wife’s brain-dead corpse alive until sometime around (IIRC) May, unable to bury her because of the state’s ghoulish laws, but he will also have a child whose medical costs will be his to bear because of side-effects of the process of bringing it into this world.

Apparently The Handmaid’s Tale was not a work of fiction, it was a sign of things to come.

372 Eclectic Cyborg  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 9:53:46am

re: #369 FemNaziBitch

What life? SHE IS DEAD.

Using her body as an incubator is beyond illegal, it’s morbid.

I used the world “life” merely to indicate that she is technically not considered to have died yet because she’s still on the machine.

373 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 9:53:54am

re: #363 Eclectic Cyborg

Black Brown thugs!

Corrected. In Roswell the non-white gangs are Latino (some of the gangs are white, hence the qualifier). That causes the wingnuts to add the following:

Seal the border!!1 Deport all the illegals!!!11

374 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 9:54:08am

re: #368 Pie-onist Overlord

HURR HURR

[Embedded content]

Jim, has one group been able to prove that it’s application was unfairly denied?

375 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 9:54:51am

re: #372 Eclectic Cyborg

I used the world “life” merely to indicate that she is technically not considered to have died yet because she’s still on the machine.

IIRC, she is brain dead. A corpse being kept viable on a machine is not “life”.

376 Varek Raith  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 9:55:18am

re: #374 Targetpractice

Jim, has one group been able to prove that it’s application was unfairly denied?

Nope.
Only a progressive group was denied, iirc.

Hell, they should all have been denied. I don’t take kindly to political groups masquerading like that for tax benefits.

377 lawhawk  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 9:56:37am

re: #370 Eclectic Cyborg

He’s even less aware of what the IRC requires of entities seeking nonprofit status, or how or why the IRS has to employ the methods it does to evaluate claims for nonprofit status (aka tax breaks) for entities that are engaged in activities that could disqualify them from those status requests.

It’s called administering the tax code. And it was done in the way it was because Congress doesn’t appropriate enough money for auditing every single request. Instead, it looked at entity names, and if they were political, they were denied this particular exemption.

But they weren’t targeted specifically as the TP/GOP claims - and Issa found nothing of the sort despite attempts to trump up something.

378 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 9:56:57am

re: #372 Eclectic Cyborg

I used the world “life” merely to indicate that she is technically not considered to have died yet because she’s still on the machine.

The EEG shows a flatline, she’s dead. There’s nothing there anymore because a few dozens pounds of meat being kept alive through artificial means.

379 Dr. Matt  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 9:56:58am

re: #299 Mattand

Today, gun ownership is seen by the gun fetishists as a political statement rather than a responsibility that has real life consequences. Gun fetishists are so hell bent to “stick it to libruls” by massing weapons and yet give very little thought to firearm safety, responsible ownership, and the repercussions of drawing your weapon on someone. As a CWL holder, my greatest fear is having to draw on someone because I have been trained (Navy Shore Patrol) to do so only under the gravest situations. Today, we see situations of gun fetishists drawing on a texter, or because of road rage, or because a black teenager looks suspicious. This mistrust of fellow man and utter obsession with shooting one another is rooted in modern conservatism….from the douche bags on am hate radio, to the loud mouths on Fox “News”, to the mouth breathers on twitter and freepersville. Fuck them all

380 Lidane  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 9:57:48am

re: #372 Eclectic Cyborg

I used the world “life” merely to indicate that she is technically not considered to have died yet because she’s still on the machine.

Brain death is death. The only reason she’s on the machine at all is because of hateful state laws that ignore end of life wishes if a woman is pregnant.

381 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 9:59:04am

re: #380 Lidane

Brain death is death. The only reason she’s on the machine at all is because of hateful state laws that ignore end of life wishes if a woman is pregnant.

Actually, the lawsuit is making the argument that the law is being applied incorrectly in this case.

382 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 9:59:10am
383 Varek Raith  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 10:00:59am

re: #382 FemNaziBitch

[Embedded content]

Please, I know where it all came from.

Over there!
See?

Where’s my Nobel?

384 Lidane  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 10:01:31am

re: #381 Dark_Falcon

Actually, the lawsuit is making the argument that the law is being applied incorrectly in this case.

That doesn’t mean that the law isn’t hateful in the first place.

The law basically says that a woman ceases to have free will if she’s pregnant. Her end of life wishes no longer matter, and the state has the right to force her family to keep her body on a machine so the misogynist “pro-life” assholes can feel better about themselves. Fuck that.

385 Pie-onist Overlord  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 10:01:35am

re: #380 Lidane

Brain death is death. The only reason she’s on the machine at all is because of hateful state laws that ignore end of life wishes if a woman is pregnant.

I don’t even understand how they think a full-term baby is going to come out of this. The mother has to metabolize nutrients in order to nourish the fetus, obviously that process is not taking place.

386 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 10:01:44am

re: #383 Varek Raith

Please, I know where it all came from.

Over there!
See?

Where’s my Nobel?

Where?

387 lawhawk  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 10:02:11am
388 Bulworth  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 10:02:20am

re: #368 Pie-onist Overlord

NEVER INTERVIEWED!!!! Confirmed. FACT.

389 Varek Raith  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 10:02:40am

re: #386 FemNaziBitch

Where?

In that general direction.
North.
ish.

390 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 10:02:57am

re: #385 Pie-onist Overlord

I don’t even understand how they think a full-term baby is going to come out of this. The mother has to metabolize nutrients in order to nourish the fetus, obviously that process is not taking place.

wemens are just incubators for man babies and moar incubators

391 Varek Raith  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 10:03:29am

Biology; How does it fucking work?

392 RealityBasedSteve  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 10:03:36am

re: #376 Varek Raith

Nope.
Only a progressive group was denied, iirc.

Hell, they should all have been denied. I don’t take kindly to political groups masquerading like that for tax benefits.

When I get appointed benevolent dictator I’m going to make it very simple. If you are tax exempt, or contributions to your organization are tax deductible ALL donors names and amounts must be made available within 30 days of the contribution. No political / partisan activities. They MUST be simply an educational / advocacy based. I would also set cap on how much can be contributed by any individual during a time span.

If your organization is not tax exempt or deductible, you can engage on partisan activity, but names / amounts must still be made public. No more anonymous donors period.

There are obviously implementation details to work out, but that’s why I would hire policy wonks minions. If the argument is that it limits free speech, I ask “How?”. You can contribute as much as you want, but you have to be responsible and take the responsibility for the speech.

RBS
Who would make Pie the official breakfast food in the new society.

393 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 10:03:39am

re: #389 Varek Raith

In that general direction.
North.
ish.

over there,
where?
there goes Jeanie with her new boyfriend …

394 Lidane  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 10:03:54am

re: #385 Pie-onist Overlord

I don’t even understand how they think a full-term baby is going to come out of this. The mother has to metabolize nutrients in order to nourish the fetus, obviously that process is not taking place.

Because Jesus will intervene and magically make the baby perfect.

No snark. That’s what these RWNJ assholes think.

395 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 10:04:14am

re: #391 Varek Raith

Biology; How does it fucking work?

The leg bone is connected to man bone and the man bone is sacred.

/

396 Varek Raith  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 10:04:29am

re: #393 FemNaziBitch

over there,
where?
there goes Jeanie with her new boyfriend …

You win.

397 Varek Raith  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 10:05:38am

re: #395 FemNaziBitch

The leg bone is connected to man bone and the man bone is sacred.

/

The kneebone’s connected to the… something. The something’s connected to the… red thing. The red thing’s connected to my wrist watch… Uh oh.
- Dr Nick

398 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 10:05:40am

re: #394 Lidane

Because Jesus will intervene and magically make the baby perfect.

No snark. That’s what these RWNJ assholes think.

If the baby is born malformed or handicapped in any way, it is His Will.

399 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 10:05:48am

re: #396 Varek Raith

You win.

omgosh, I never win anything! How exciting …

:)

400 Lidane  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 10:07:01am

re: #398 Targetpractice

If the baby is born malformed or handicapped in any way, it is His Will.

If the baby is born at all, the state of Texas should pay for all its medical care and all its bills from birth to death. They want to force the issue of this woman’s body being kept alive against her wishes, let them pay for everything.

401 Dr. Matt  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 10:07:35am

re: #391 Varek Raith

Biology; How does it fucking work?

402 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 10:08:22am

re: #400 Lidane

If the baby is born at all, the state of Texas should pay for all its medical care and all its bills from birth to death. They want to force the issue of this woman’s body being kept alive against her wishes, let them pay for everything.

You know better than that. In the eyes of wingnuts, you only hold significance and demand protection when you’re in the womb. Once you’re out, you’re on your own. What, you can’t get a job because you can’t crawl, let alone talk? Damned freeloader.

403 wrenchwench  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 10:09:11am

Two years ago in Roswell:

The police department in one of the most violent cities in New Mexico reports that it is short more than a quarter of the officers it needs.

The Roswell Daily Record reports that the Roswell Police Department is 25 officers down from the normal complement of 96.

Roswell Police Chief Alfonso Solis said that to deal with the staffing shortages, officers are working overtime. He also notified the Roswell Independent School District Tuesday that he is pulling the resource officer from the schools to work patrol.

“We were 16 officers down when I first started. We got up to strength, and now we are back down again,” Solis said.

Roswell and Chaves County had the state’s highest “firearm injury emergency department visit rate,” largely due to gang violence, officials said. In Chaves County, the rate was 44.8 per 100,000 residents during 2008 to 2010, the latest numbers showed. The state average was 18.

[…]

I wonder whether they ever replaced that resource officer.

404 ausador  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 10:09:56am

re: #371 Targetpractice

Which leaves the husband not only paying to keep his wife’s brain-dead corpse alive until sometime around (IIRC) May, unable to bury her because of the state’s ghoulish laws, but he will also have a child whose medical costs will be his to bear because of side-effects of the process of bringing it into this world.

Apparently The Handmaid’s Tale was not a work of fiction, it was a sign of things to come.

It is very difficult, verging on impossibly difficult, to sustain a fully braindead woman through 6 or more months of pregnancy. Medical science’s previous success rate on this is pretty abysmal, this isn’t a coma, this is brain death along with full life support.

Her odds of making it to full term with the child are marginal at best and those odds are based on the fetus itself being uninjured and healthy. Odds are that the busy-bodies so interested in prolonging the life of the fetus at any cost (that they don’t have to pay, physically, emotionally, or monetarily) are instead merely prolonging the fathers agony. :(

405 Backwoods_Sleuth  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 10:10:19am

re: #398 Targetpractice

If the baby is born malformed or handicapped in any way, it is His Will.

and a GIFT! a BLESSING!!!11!!!

406 Kragar  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 10:12:05am
407 Uncle Obdicut  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 10:12:29am

re: #404 ausador

The girl’s parents agree with the husband and want her body removed from life support. Must be torturous for them to have this in the news.

408 lawhawk  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 10:12:37am
409 Varek Raith  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 10:12:55am

re: #406 Kragar

[Embedded content]

After they stabbed him in the back politically?
Okely dokely.

410 Lidane  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 10:13:08am

re: #402 Targetpractice

You know better than that. In the eyes of wingnuts, you only hold significance and demand protection when you’re in the womb. Once you’re out, you’re on your own. What, you can’t get a job because you can’t crawl, let alone talk? Damned freeloader.

True. This is a Republican state, after all. :P

411 Kragar  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 10:14:01am

re: #407 Uncle Obdicut

The girl’s parents agree with the husband and want her body removed from life support. Must be torturous for them to have this in the news.

But remember, Texas is the last bastion of liberty and freedom, which believes in smaller government and preventing government regulations from intruding on the wishes of its citizens.

412 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 10:14:45am

re: #404 ausador

It is very difficult, verging on impossibly difficult, to sustain a fully braindead woman through 6 or more months of pregnancy. Medical science’s previous success rate on this is pretty abysmal, this isn’t a coma, this is brain death along with full life support.

Her odds of making it to full term with the child are marginal at best and those odds are based on the fetus itself being uninjured and healthy. Odds are that the busy-bodies so interested in prolonging the life of the fetus at any cost (that they don’t have to pay, physically, emotionally, or monetarily) are instead merely prolonging the fathers agony. :(

I think odds are greater that the busy-bodies are doing this for no other reason than because they’re afraid of legal retribution if it gets to authorities that they pulled the plug. Let the family pay the court costs to challenge the case rather than be the ones responsible for explaining to a court why they made the decision to fulfill the husband’s wishes in what their legal department views as a violation of state law.

413 Political Atheist  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 10:14:52am

re: #365 Uncle Obdicut

And there may, at one point, be a supreme court decision that reverses that. Staking all your hopes on a supreme court decision is not a good long-term strategy. Supreme Court decisions are powerful and lasting, but they’re not forever. In a way, the argument that self-defense is the standing right is a declaration the 2nd amendment is irrelevant to the question, that instead the right to self-defense with a gun is presumed on general rights.

Well that’s also true of Roe V Wade, but we get to act on it as law right? Our opinions that take it into account are that much more solid accordingly.
“All my hopes” overstates my meaning. For the foreseeable future, we have the ruling to base policy on. The weight of existing law matters. California laws may loosen or tighten. until they actually do, I’m going to shape my writings on the matter accordingly.

The original and (IMHO) entirely justified SYG is at home, on your property, and at your business. Remarkably, they (SCOTUS decisions) do not apply in public areas. Those rulings stand today and date back to the 1800’s

414 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 10:18:21am
415 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 10:18:44am

re: #412 Targetpractice

I think odds are greater that the busy-bodies are doing this for no other reason than because they’re afraid of legal retribution if it gets to authorities that they pulled the plug. Let the family pay the court costs to challenge the case rather than be the ones responsible for explaining to a court why they made the decision to fulfill the husband’s wishes in what their legal department views as a violation of state law.

Quoted for Truth. Bad as this decision likely is, its not being made by fanatics; It’s being made by lawyers who have calculated that a lawsuit filed by the husband is of less risk to the hospital than the risk of being found in violation of state law.

416 wrenchwench  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 10:18:53am

UNDERGROUND DRONZZZZZ!!!1!


Looks like something from Tonka Toys.

417 Varek Raith  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 10:20:04am

re: #416 wrenchwench

UNDERGROUND DRONZZZZZ!!!1!

[Embedded content]


Looks like something from Tonka Toys.

Back when I was a kid Tonka’s were made of metal.
Ah, when toys were ‘real’.
;)

418 Pie-onist Overlord  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 10:20:13am

WTFITS I just can’t even

419 Pie-onist Overlord  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 10:21:31am
420 wrenchwench  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 10:22:52am

re: #415 Dark_Falcon

Quoted for Truth. Bad as this decision likely is, its not being made by fanatics; It’s being made by lawyers who have calculated that a lawsuit filed by the husband is of less risk to the hospital than the risk of being found in violation of state law.

Groundwork has been established by the fanatics to make these decisions look reasonable instead of OUTRAGEOUS, which they actually are.

421 Kragar  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 10:23:13am

re: #418 Pie-onist Overlord

WTFITS I just can’t even

[Embedded content]

I think it fair to say that the GWB probably sees more traffic on any given day than any given war memorial, ignoring the other Derp in their argument.

422 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 10:24:24am

re: #419 Pie-onist Overlord

[Embedded content]

And this shit is not biodegradable, which means it will dilute, but only when it hits a large enough mass of water. In the meantime, everybody downstream better start stocking up on bottled water and making plans for going a couple days without showering or bathing.

423 Varek Raith  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 10:24:31am

re: #421 Kragar

I think it fair to say that the GWB probably sees more traffic on any given day than any given war memorial, ignoring the other Derp in their argument.

From wiki;

As of 2013, the George Washington Bridge carries approximately 102 million vehicles per year, making it the world’s busiest motor vehicle bridge

424 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 10:24:31am
425 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 10:25:24am

re: #418 Pie-onist Overlord

WTFITS I just can’t even

[Embedded content]

Months later and they’re still grinding that axe.

426 makeitstop  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 10:25:35am

re: #389 Varek Raith

In that general direction.
North.
ish.

[Rummy]…in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south and north somewhat.[/Rummy]

427 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 10:26:05am

re: #419 Pie-onist Overlord

[Embedded content]

IIRC, the Ohio Valley area (right where the plume is) has one of the worst EPA air quality ratings because of the nature of the valley itself. When I lived there I remember seeing more Allergy and Asthma Doctor signs than I’d ever seen in my life.

Every kid had an inhaler.

428 Backwoods_Sleuth  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 10:26:21am

re: #419 Pie-onist Overlord

[Embedded content]

oh, wonderful. Good thing my county (just to the west of Portsmouth on that map) gets its municipal water supplies from deep artesian wells. My water comes from springs.

429 Pie-onist Overlord  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 10:26:27am

re: #425 Targetpractice

Months later and they’re still grinding that axe.

It was the GOP who voted for the shutdown!

*HEADDESK*
*HEADDESK*
*HEADDESK*
*HEADDESK*
*HEADDESK*
*HEADDESK*

430 Varek Raith  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 10:26:28am

re: #425 Targetpractice

Months later and they’re still grinding that axe.

That’s their elbows…
.

431 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 10:27:40am

re: #430 Varek Raith

That’s their elbows…
.

I was going to say they were grinding something else. They are definitely enjoying it too much for it to be elbows or axes.

432 Varek Raith  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 10:28:29am

re: #431 FemNaziBitch

I was going to say they were grinding something else. They are definitely enjoying it too much for it to be elbows or axes.

Bad, GGT, bad!
/

433 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 10:30:10am

re: #432 Varek Raith

Bad, GGT, bad!
/

you love me that way!

:0

434 Backwoods_Sleuth  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 10:30:58am

FREEDUM!!!11!!!

435 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 10:31:01am

re: #431 FemNaziBitch

I was going to say they were grinding something else. They are definitely enjoying it too much for it to be elbows or axes.

Ah, so you’re saying they’re doing a Miley Cyrus? [snicker]

436 Pie-onist Overlord  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 10:31:39am
437 Pie-onist Overlord  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 10:33:24am
438 Uncle Obdicut  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 10:34:29am

re: #413 Political Atheist

Well that’s also true of Roe V Wade, but we get to act on it as law right?

Yes, I’m not sure if that’s the way you meant it, but that’s a great example. Despite Roe vs. Wade, there’s been an astonishing rollback on abortion rights in this country.

“All my hopes” overstates my meaning. For the foreseeable future, we have the ruling to base policy on. The weight of existing law matters. California laws may loosen or tighten. until they actually do, I’m going to shape my writings on the matter accordingly.

That’s fine, but that’d different than saying the issue is ‘resolved’. It’s not. It’s in one current state because of a SC ruling, that could change in the future. Abortion rights aren’t ‘resolved’ either. Nothing is permanent in government.

439 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave of the waffle light)  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 10:34:32am

re: #437 Pie-onist Overlord

If someone is disturbing you in a movie theater, let management handle it. Don’t kill that person.

another example of liberal feminization of society.

/

440 Political Atheist  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 10:34:42am

re: #344 Uncle Obdicut

Was that downding about asking you if you had any citations as you asked Dark?

I have not misunderstood your posts nearly as much as you seem to think. Obviously we disagree and our points of view reflect that. And I’m not “on” about anything. not in the more than ordinary conversational sense. I still think Dark made a fair statement of his opinion. And he put it fairly, as in no citation.

I think the fair general presumption including training etc. is that retired cops can keep and carry a gun. That their incident rate is low enough to leave that be.

Just judging by tone & language, you are more “on” about this than myself or Dark.

441 Lidane  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 10:34:59am
442 Pie-onist Overlord  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 10:35:35am
443 lawhawk  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 10:35:54am

re: #421 Kragar

The bridge sees over 275,000 vehicles per day. 100+ million per year.

Now, the bridge affected the Fort Lee traffic access, which normally accounts for 25% of the traffic (and 3 of the 12 toll lanes to the bridge normally). Even if you cut the number by a fourth, you’re still dealing with huge numbers. 68,750 vehicles a day (and not every vehicle is single passenger; there are ride shares, buses, jitneys, etc.).

The 9/11 memorial saw 4 million visitors last year. Great Smoky Mountains National Park sees more than 6 million.

About 3.7 million people visited the WWII memorial, which works out to about 13,000 visitors daily.

The GWB lane closures affected about 5 times as many vehicles as those who were attempting to visit the DC memorial (68,750 versus 13,000).

444 Lidane  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 10:36:34am

re: #442 Pie-onist Overlord

Sure that makes sense. On Bizarro RWNJ Earth where popcorn is a deadly weapon.

445 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 10:40:25am

re: #442 Pie-onist Overlord

[Embedded content]

Hey, popped popcorn can be a dangerous weapon. He could have got his eye poked or something.

/

446 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 10:40:39am

bbl

447 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 10:40:49am

re: #442 Pie-onist Overlord

[Embedded content]

Throwing popcorn is now a capital crime?

448 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 10:41:21am

re: #442 Pie-onist Overlord

The cholesteral in that pseudo-butter will kill you, so of course popcorn is a lethal threat!
////

449 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 10:42:40am

re: #440 Political Atheist

Was that downding about asking you if you had any citations as you asked Dark?

I have not misunderstood your posts nearly as much as you seem to think. Obviously we disagree and our points of view reflect that. And I’m not “on” about anything. not in the more than ordinary conversational sense. I still think Dark made a fair statement of his opinion. And he put it fairly, as in no citation.

I think the fair general presumption including training etc. is that retired cops can keep and carry a gun. That their incident rate is low enough to leave that be.

Just judging by tone & language, you are more “on” about this than myself or Dark.

Thank you, RWC.

450 Political Atheist  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 10:45:23am

re: #438 Uncle Obdicut

Yes, I’m not sure if that’s the way you meant it, but that’s a great example. Despite Roe vs. Wade, there’s been an astonishing rollback on abortion rights in this country.

That’s fine, but that’d different than saying the issue is ‘resolved’. It’s not. It’s in one current state because of a SC ruling, that could change in the future. Abortion rights aren’t ‘resolved’ either. Nothing is permanent in government.

So “resolved” is not a fair way to present a decision that went all the way through our process of law, to the very highest court? We use the term differently. I mean resolved under our law. The 2nd stands as settled law. Gun bans are illegal. Gun regulations are fine.

If/when I mean some certifiably permanent solution, utterly unchangeable, I’ll use those words. It ain’t certain like death or taxes but we do have the highest ruling that can be had. Love it like Roe V Wade, or hate it like Citizens vs United, but it is what it is. Settled law.

451 Dr Lizardo  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 10:50:09am

re: #442 Pie-onist Overlord

[Embedded content]

Because popcorn is just like being whupped over the head with a blackjack or taking a shot to the jaw with a pair of knuckledusters.

FAIL.

452 Political Atheist  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 10:50:50am

re: #449 Dark_Falcon

Fair is fair. I actually thought he might have one, he so often does. getting a ding over it is just a little surprising but no biggie.

And I do hope to dig up the real numbers for all our edification. Uncle Obdi calls for the strictest conservative (not politics!) view of gun ownership and public safety. In principle I agree but we place our preferences very differently along that spectrum.

453 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 10:58:35am

re: #451 Dr Lizardo

Because popcorn is just like being whupped over the head with a blackjack or taking a shot to the jaw with a pair of knuckledusters.

FAIL.

He can try that line of BS, but I don’t think the judge will buy it.

[heading upstairs]

454 ausador  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 10:58:45am

re: #444 Lidane

Sure that makes sense. On Bizarro RWNJ Earth where popcorn is a deadly weapon.

I don’t know, that fake “butter flavored” popcorn topping should be considered extremely hazardous. Did you know that it can turn the insulation on the electrical cords of the warming/pump pots into a gelatinous mush in only a few months?

I have rewired dozens and dozens of those things, even using “hard service” type SEO/SEOO cord that is rated for direct exposure to oil and other petroleum products. It still turns them to mush, I’m telling you, that stuff is dangerous!

///

455 Uncle Obdicut  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 11:01:45am

re: #440 Political Atheist

Was that downding about asking you if you had any citations as you asked Dark?

What downding? And you’re missing that I”m not asserting something. I’m challenging an assertion.

I have not misunderstood your posts nearly as much as you seem to think. Obviously we disagree and our points of view reflect that. And I’m not “on” about anything. not in the more than ordinary conversational sense. I still think Dark made a fair statement of his opinion. And he put it fairly, as in no citation.

I have shown many cases where you completely missed what I was saying.

I think the fair general presumption including training etc. is that retired cops can keep and carry a gun. That their incident rate is low enough to leave that be.

I don’t have any knowledge of their incidence rate, and I’m not talking about not letting them keep guns.

Just judging by tone & language, you are more “on” about this than myself or Dark.

I’m saying that we should encourage a more responsible gun culture. I have said I’d be fine with absolutely no new regulations if that were the case.

Somehow, this is me being ‘anti-gun’.

456 Political Atheist  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 11:27:19am

re: #455 Uncle Obdicut

I’m deeply sorry, that was SteelPh. So I’ll redirect my question about the ding to him or her.

When i say anti gun I do not mean in the absolute gun ban sense. But your oft repeated skeptical view of gun ownership via self defense and gun laws shows you have some anti gun aspects to your opinions. You have advocated some standards for CCW that was in excess of patrol police training. To me that is a poison pill standard. It just about kills the ability to get that permit unless you are SWAT trained or HRT trained.

I have not forgotten you have gone and as far as I know still go to a range and fire a gun from time to time. Most of us accept California gun laws as strict. You rejected the term and went for a international meaning. To me that’s another hint where your opinions are.

Pro gun and anti gun. it’s a spectrum not a binary discussion.

And I’m out to work a bit and look at FBI cop stats if I can drill that down.

457 Uncle Obdicut  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 11:54:22am

re: #456 Political Atheist

I’m deeply sorry, that was SteelPh. So I’ll redirect my question about the ding to him or her.

When i say anti gun I do not mean in the absolute gun ban sense.

Then don’t use such a stupidly simplistic phrase to describe my position. It’s insulting. I don’t call you ‘pro-gun’.

You have advocated some standards for CCW that was in excess of patrol police training. To me that is a poison pill standard. It just about kills the ability to get that permit unless you are SWAT trained or HRT trained.

I’ve never advocated for people to be trained above patrol police, no except maybe in areas with terrible police patrol positions. It is not a ‘poison pill’ to want people who carry weapons to be able to use weapons in public responsibly.

I have not forgotten you have gone and as far as I know still go to a range and fire a gun from time to time. Most of us accept California gun laws as strict.

Which would be a good point if I ever, ever advocated against this.

Pro gun and anti gun. it’s a spectrum not a binary discussion.

I don’t call you pro-gun. You call me anti-gun. You are the one being binary.

You are now misrepresenting my positions in an insulting manner. I call you a responsible gun owner, and you return it by calling me ‘anti-gun’. I’m not anti-gun. I am not even calling for regulations. I am calling for greater responsibility, and I have no idea why this idea is so threatening.

458 Political Atheist  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 12:04:29pm

re: #263 Lidane

I am just as against the nutter propaganda as you are. As against the misuse of guns. We don’t shape regulations and laws around propaganda.

459 Political Atheist  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 12:05:45pm

re: #457 Uncle Obdicut

No intent to insult, so what phrase would you like me to use that accurately describes your view of self defense with a gun and CCW? Skeptic? You tell me and I’ll use the term you self identify with. I am pro gun, with the caveats I have outlined many times. It’s not an insult unless said with a snarl or snark. I view the phrase anti gun the same way. Just a plain descriptor of a location on a spectrum.

maybe you recall when we discussed a guy that shot a dog that was attacking a child. You appeared to characterize that man as a vigilante, or of having a vigilante attitude or mind set. When I objected you said the man was “not technically a vigilante”. “Technically? That sir in part is where i get the impression of your stand on guns and self defense. So lets agree on a term to avoid insults like “anti gun”, “facile” and “silly”.

460 Uncle Obdicut  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 12:08:12pm

re: #459 Political Atheist

No intent to insult, so what phrase would you like me to use that accurately describes your view of self defense with a gun and CCW? Skeptic? You tell me and I’ll use the term you self identify with.

I don’t think it can be summed up in a pithy phrase. I’m in favor of gun owners acting responsibly, reasonably, and actually telling people they don’t need guns if the people don’t need guns.

461 Political Atheist  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 12:13:01pm

re: #460 Uncle Obdicut

May I use a less unwieldy term? Is gun skeptic acceptable? We both shoot, I’m fine with pro gun… but that does not fit you either at least not too close to me on that spectrum.

You have insisted certain stats make gun ownership for self defense a bad choice. De facto. Or do I have that wrong?

462 Uncle Obdicut  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 12:14:05pm

re: #461 Political Atheist

May I use a less unwieldy term? Is gun skeptic acceptable?

Why do you need some laden term?

We both shoot, I’m fine with pro gun… but that does not fit you either at least not too close to me on that spectrum.

I’ve shot a gun four times in five years. Saying we both shoot is disingenuous.

You have insisted certain stats make gun ownership for self defense a bad choice. De facto. Or do I have that wrong?

Yeah, most people don’t need guns to defend themselves. Are you really arguing most people do?

463 Political Atheist  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 12:19:42pm

re: #462 Uncle Obdicut

Why do you need some laden term?

I’ve shot a gun four times in five years. Saying we both shoot is disingenuous.

Yeah, most people don’t need guns to defend themselves. Are you really arguing most people do?

My answer to that “need” is that you get to define that for you and your family. You do not get to define that for others, who through training and safety largely remove themselves from the risk the overall numbers would imply. I think most of us will make the right choice given the data and opportunity.

Self defense with a gun works out well tens of thousands of times a year. That represents a defined & provable need by a very practical measure.

I argue we all get to make that pro or anti gun choice for ourselves, both morally and legally. Would you say that is wrong or untrue?

464 Uncle Obdicut  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 12:21:25pm

re: #463 Political Atheist

My answer to that “need” is that you get to define that for you and your family.

But I can’t do that, I have no expertise in that. I’m talking about an objective assessment, not some subjective notion based on no actual knowledge.

To me, the idea that random citizens on their own can accurately self-assess their need for a gun is bizarre. What I’m asking for is for those who advocate responsible gun ownership to lend their expertise, and discourage gun ownership from those who don’t need it for self-defense.

I argue we all get to make that pro or anti gun choice for ourselves, both morally and legally. Would you say that is wrong or untrue?

I have no idea what you mean by that sentence.

465 Political Atheist  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 12:25:38pm

re: #464 Uncle Obdicut

But I can’t do that, I have no expertise in that. I’m talking about an objective assessment, not some subjective notion based on no actual knowledge.

I have no idea what you mean by that sentence.

You have the ability to gather the data you need to make a smart choice. A smart and objective choice. The data is easy to find, it’s just a study to take on as part of a decision process.

What part of us making our own choices based on easy to get data is not understood?

466 Political Atheist  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 12:26:57pm

re: #462 Uncle Obdicut

Yeah, most people don’t need guns to defend themselves. Are you really arguing most people do?>

No. Since most people don’t own a gun, it’s a moot point. Bit of a straw man too. When did I ever say most people should have a gun? I say we all have a right to it under the law. But a need? No. But then let’s remember that is not a fair standard. the desire for one, for legal purposes is the reality.

if you want to target shoot or hunt you “need” a gun.

467 Uncle Obdicut  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 12:41:25pm

re: #465 Political Atheist

You have the ability to gather the data you need to make a smart choice. A smart and objective choice. The data is easy to find, it’s just a study to take on as part of a decision process.

Yeah, but most people don’t do this.

What part of us making our own choices based on easy to get data is not understood?

That people don’t do that, mainly.

468 Uncle Obdicut  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 12:42:38pm

re: #466 Political Atheist

No. Since most people don’t own a gun, it’s a moot point.

Not really, no. I’m saying that people buying guns should seriously evaluate the need for them.

Bit of a straw man too. When did I ever say most people should have a gun? I say we all have a right to it under the law. But a need? No. But then let’s remember that is not a fair standard. the desire for one, for legal purposes is the reality.

I never claimed you said everyone needed a gun, either. It’s not a strawman.

I’m saying that gun advocates should honestly tell people they don’t need guns when they don’t.

469 Eventual Carrion  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 1:54:07pm

re: #442 Pie-onist Overlord

WHAT RT @MyFoxTampaBay: Movie theater shooting suspect’s attorney: Reeves had “every right to defend himself” after being hit with popcorn”
— Danielle (@DCPlod) January 14, 2014

Guess I don’t feel so bad now about bashing that guys head in that looked at me funny

//

470 Eventual Carrion  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 1:55:45pm

re: #447 Targetpractice

Throwing popcorn is now a capital crime?

I just took an arsenal off my Christmas tree. They are on a string clip.

471 Political Atheist  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 2:02:56pm

re: #467 Uncle Obdicut

Yeah, but most people don’t do this.

That people don’t do that, mainly.

Okay, well I think they mainly do and the declining gun accident stats show it. But in any case it seems you understood what I said just fine, it was simply agreement that was lacking. That seems to happen a lot when we talk.

472 Uncle Obdicut  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 2:14:25pm

re: #471 Political Atheist

Okay, well I think they mainly do and the declining gun accident stats show it.

No, you don’t really think most people actually access crime statistics, gun accident statistics, etc. before buying a gun. At least, I really hope you’re not laboring under that delusion. Of every gun owner I know (more than twenty), none of them have done such a calculation. If you do really think most people do that, I don’t know what to say, except I guess i”ll have to do a study sometime to prove this, to me, rather trivially obvious fact.

Edit: To expand on why it’s trivially obvious: People don’t do this sort of rational calculation about almost anything. Many people don’t have an understanding of statistics necessary to do that calculation. Even if we’re sticking with the bare-bones simplest “What’s the chance of me, in my neighborhood, being in a situation where the gun would be useful vs. the gun causing an accident/being used in a suicide/being stolen”, that’s more statistical grinding than most people ever do. When you add in other factors that you should really assess—like people honestly self-assessing how responsible they’ll be, and how secure their storage is—it gets legitimately tricky.

But in any case it seems you understood what I said just fine, it was simply agreement that was lacking. That seems to happen a lot when we talk.

No, I had no clue what you meant. I’m being honest with you, so please stop accusing me of being dishonest.

Most people do not do a real calculation of risk-benefit when buying a gun, and, sadly, very few responsible gun owners encourage that calculation or give their advice and knowledge to prevent people from getting guns based on false ideas of needing them for protection, or responsible gun owners discouraging people from buying guns because they’re drunks or simply are forgetful and irresponsible, etc.

Responsible gun owners should encourage responsible gun ownership, and that means discouraging gun ownership by those who don’t need them.

473 Political Atheist  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 2:40:03pm

re: #472 Uncle Obdicut

Any gun owner that takes a decent class or pays any attention to the rather frequent worries about gun violence and accidents seen on the news gets to see a lot of those cautionary stats. The anti violence and rabid anti gun organizations see to that.

Um, if I were to accuse you of being dishonest, I’d use stronger words to that effect. I can see, and you might agree we use certain terms differently, and that has led to a number of non or misunderstandings. I don’t think you lie to me or anyone else. I’m at a loss as to why that needed clarification, but hey that’s what misunderstandings are often made of.

If a person wants to target shoot much, they need a gun to use. That oerson need not delve into deep police or CCW related issues. It’s all about safe handling, storage and range safety.

The 65,000 times a year number is cited as a conservative number for successful gun use in defense. That’s a very valuable stat. With that stat would be the accident rate and the murder rate. But how a person looks at the numbers will vary a great deal. And rightly so. You might look at those and think that very very few people should have guns for defense. One could argue everyone beyond those people did not need a gun. Mathematically accurate. but millions of people who do face risk of being a victim to some human predator can’t know if they will be one of the 65,000 that needed it or one of the millions that did not.

Gun accidents per capita have been on the decline for decades. That’s a great thing, rarely recognized.

474 Uncle Obdicut  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 2:46:26pm

re: #473 Political Atheist

Any gun owner that takes a decent class or pays any attention to the rather frequent worries about gun violence and accidents seen on the news gets to see a lot of those cautionary stats.

Those statistics are neither presented consistently or in any sort of really rigorous manner.

Um, if I were to accuse you of being dishonest, I’d use stronger words to that effect.

Then, when I say I don’t understand you, don’t tell me that yes, I understood you just fine. I didn’t.

If a person wants to target shoot much, they need a gun to use. That oerson need not delve into deep police or CCW related issues. It’s all about safe handling, storage and range safety.

Sure. If they need it for target-shooting, then can just keep it at the range. No problems.

The 65,000 times a year number is cited as a conservative number for successful gun use in defense. That’s a very valuable stat. With that stat would be the accident rate and the murder rate. But how a person looks at the numbers will vary a great deal. And rightly so. You might look at those and think that very very few people should have guns for defense. One could argue everyone beyond those people did not need a gun. Mathematically accurate. but millions of people who do face risk of being a victim to some human predator can’t know if they will be one of the 65,000 that needed it or one of the millions that did not.

I’m sorry, again, I don’t understand. Previously you said people did make this calculation, and now you’re saying that the accurate mathematics don’t actually matter. I’m saying that most people don’t do an actual calculation of risk-reward for owning a gun. You now appear to be agreeing with me, that instead they go on the emotional appeal of ‘they can’t know if the’ll be one that needed it’.

Are you agreeing now that most people don’t actually do the mathematical calculation of need, and are now preferring an argument that that calculation isn’t actually a good or useful one?

475 palomino  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 9:36:23pm

re: #235 Dark_Falcon

Nope. I’m asserting without evidence.

The other name for that is bullshit. Or just making stuff up. So which one is it?

Are you full of shit, or just making stuff up?


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