NSA Review Board Recommends Phone Companies Store Metadata, but Phone Companies Don’t Want the Job

A notable lack of enthusiasm from the private sector
US News • Views: 20,678
Image via Shutterstock

One of the proposals made by the NSA review committee is that phone companies (or possibly other third parties) would be required to store customer metadata for longer periods of time. But with the obvious security headaches, much greater expense and liability issues, it’s not surprising that the phone companies don’t want the job.

WASHINGTON — Telephone companies are quietly balking at the idea of changing how they collect and store Americans’ phone records to help the National Security Agency’s surveillance programs. They’re worried about their exposure to lawsuits and the price tag if the U.S. government asks them to hold information about customers for longer than they already do. …

… Two phone executives familiar with the discussions said the cellular industry told the government that it prefers the NSA keep control over the surveillance program and would only accept changes if they were legally required. The executives spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to disclose the private discussions. But there have been public complaints, too.

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367 comments
1 erik_t  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 2:14:12pm

Hmm. A solid proposal, but I have a better idea: let’s have Target do it!

2 Kragar  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 2:17:26pm

So much for private enterprise stepping up.

3 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 2:18:48pm

re: #1 erik_t

Hmm. A solid proposal, but I have a better idea: let’s have Target do it!

Actually, there’s something to the idea that a company that’s suffered a major security disaster would probably be one of the most secure after that. They’d certainly have the incentive to get all state of the art with it.

4 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 2:19:26pm

Not sure if I’d trust Target to be that company, though.

5 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 2:19:43pm

re: #2 Kragar

So much for private enterprise stepping up.

Oh, I imagine the response to this was “We can’t do it. *coughwithoutmoremoneycough*”

6 Kragar  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 2:21:44pm

re: #5 Targetpractice

Oh, I imagine the response to this was “We can’t do it. *coughwithoutmoremoneycough*”

Their loyalty can not be bought, but you can rent it easily enough.

7 Eclectic Cyborg  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 2:21:50pm

I think part of it is PR related. These companies don’t want to be seen as conspiring with the evil NSA to monitor and track the lives of Americans.

(Not that they don’t ALREADY do that, but you know, perception and all).

8 Kragar  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 2:23:08pm

BAM! Another one down.

9 Justanotherhuman  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 2:23:10pm

Does anyone know how long the phone cos keep those records now? I assume these times are still operative for these major cell phone cos.

How long do wireless carriers keep your data?

nbcnews.com

I use a landline almost exclusively because I’m pretty homebound. And still prefer it to a mobile.

10 erik_t  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 2:25:57pm

re: #8 Kragar

BAM! Another one down.

And with that, Tony Perkins is pretty sure society just ended.

////////

11 Eclectic Cyborg  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 2:26:52pm

re: #8 Kragar

Texas, you better watch out, they’re closing in!

12 Eclectic Cyborg  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 2:27:28pm

re: #8 Kragar

I wonder if SCOTUS will block this one too.

13 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 2:28:53pm

re: #12 Eclectic Cyborg

I wonder if SCOTUS will block this one too.

Ruling’s stayed pending appeal.

14 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 2:31:37pm

re: #2 Kragar

So much for private enterprise stepping up.

They took a look at the idea and realized they’d just be taking on a whole bunch of the same problems the NSA is dealing with right now, with the addition of civil lawsuit liabilities, for no real benefit to them. I don’t blame them for saying “wait a freaking minute here.”

15 Kragar  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 2:33:08pm

re: #14 Charles Johnson

They took a look at the idea and realized they’d just be taking on a whole bunch of the same problems the NSA is dealing with right now, with the addition of civil lawsuit liabilities, for no real benefit to them.

If only we had some sort of national agency focused on security that could collect and store the information for future use.

16 Dr Lizardo  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 2:33:19pm

re: #10 erik_t

And with that, Tony Perkins is pretty sure society just ended.

////////

Image: earth-explode2-o.gif

17 Dr. Matt  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 2:38:26pm

A Tampa woman has come forward to report that Curtis Reeves gave her shit about using her phone in the same theatre 3 weeks ago. If indeed true, I predict there will be more people coming forward. I think we’ll discover that this is a case of a crotchety old man with a history of harassing cell phone users.

18 blueraven  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 2:41:37pm

re: #17 Dr. Matt

A Tampa woman has come forward to report that Curtis Reeves gave her shit about using her phone in the same theatre 3 weeks ago. If indeed true, I predict there will be more people coming forward. I think we’ll discover that this is a case of a crotchety old man with a history of harassing cell phone users.

For 71, Mr Reeves looks to be in pretty darn good shape. Physically.

19 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 2:42:35pm

re: #17 Dr. Matt

A Tampa woman has come forward to report that Curtis Reeves gave her shit about using her phone in the same theatre 3 weeks ago. If indeed true, I predict there will be more people coming forward. I think we’ll discover that this is a case of a crotchety old man with a history of harassing cell phone users.

Did this guy even wait for the lights to dim before bitching?

20 abolitionist  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 2:42:53pm

re: #14 Charles Johnson

They took a look at the idea and realized they’d just be taking on a whole bunch of the same problems the NSA is dealing with right now, with the addition of civil lawsuit liabilities, for no real benefit to them. I don’t blame them for saying “wait a freaking minute here.”

And without benefit of secret courts, secret laws, National Security Letters, gag orders, and 10,000+ other ways [edit] to influence and/or avoid critics.

21 thedopefishlives  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 2:43:00pm

re: #15 Kragar

If only we had some sort of national agency focused on security that could collect and store the information for future use.

HURR DURR BIG GUBMINT IS BAD FOR YOU!!!!

22 Justanotherhuman  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 2:43:06pm

You really should read this. It’s before the Snowden incident at the NSA, and it appears to be part of the ideology that drove him, encouraged by his cohorts, to steal those documents. Wired gets its bowels in an uproar about this doc that the ACLU forward to them.

Which Telecoms Store Your Data the Longest? Secret Memo Tells All

wired.com

So, in 2011, telecoms weren’t storing your text messages, except for Verizon?

“Verizon, for example, keeps a list of everyone you’ve exchanged text messages with for the past year, according to the document. But T-Mobile stores the same data up to five years. It’s 18 months for Sprint, and seven years for AT&T.

“That makes Verizon appear to have the most privacy-friendly policy. Except that Verizon is alone in retaining the actual contents of text messages. It allegedly stores the messages for five days, while T-Mobile, AT&T, and Sprint don’t store them at all.

“The document was unearthed by the American Civil Liberties Union of North Carolina via a Freedom of Information Act claim. (After the group gave a copy to Wired.com, we also discovered it in two other places on the internet by searching its title.)”

23 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 2:45:57pm

By Paul Bond

24 Political Atheist  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 2:48:16pm

re: #14 Charles Johnson

re: #20 abolitionist

And without benefit of secret courts, secret laws, National Security Letters, gag orders, and 10,000+ other ways [edit] to influence and/or avoid critics.

Is this not just keeping data they already have, by straight operational necessity and keeping it longer? If not the following might not apply. If so…

There is a long list of things these companies do not like to do but do anyway by way of regulations. And Nat’l security letters. I see some fainting couch theater from them if they object very strongly. PR department mentality.

Heck it might be a cheaper way to go than this whole separate NSA database and all the moving parts that go with a big enterprise like that.

On the hacking threat-I have a hard time thinking this metadata is going to be highly sought after by criminals. What’s the value? Credit card data of course is a cash cow for them. But telephone metadata? Who would bust their butt to get that?

Edit-How long are we talking about anyway?

25 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 2:48:32pm

re: #17 Dr. Matt

A Tampa woman has come forward to report that Curtis Reeves gave her shit about using her phone in the same theatre 3 weeks ago. If indeed true, I predict there will be more people coming forward. I think we’ll discover that this is a case of a crotchety old man with a history of harassing cell phone users.

What do ya wanna bet that this guy’s well known to local theater staff as a serial complainer?

26 Kragar  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 2:50:38pm
27 Justanotherhuman  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 2:52:41pm

re: #26 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Dudebro!

28 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 2:52:56pm

re: #18 blueraven

For 71, Mr Reeves looks to be in pretty darn good shape. Physically.

When he was part of the Tampa police department, he was once of the founders of its version of SWAT, the Tactical Response Team (TRT). Cops in elite units need to be in top shape and often maintaining a high level of fitness becomes a big part of their self image.

29 thedopefishlives  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 2:54:22pm

re: #24 Political Atheist

On the hacking threat-I have a hard time thinking this metadata is going to be highly sought after by criminals. What’s the value? Credit card data of course is a cash cow for them. But telephone metadata? Who would bust their butt to get that?

A list of who called whom, when, and for how long? Yeah, that’s totally not valuable information for anyone.

30 makeitstop  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 2:55:07pm

re: #25 Targetpractice

What do ya wanna bet that this guy’s well known to local theater staff as a serial complainer?

That might be why he came back into the theater without the manager, just before shooting the poor guy.

The manager had probably heard the whole complaint at least once before.

31 Dr. Matt  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 2:55:58pm

re: #26 Kragar

“Today, I joined the ranks of unaffiliated voters. I am every bit as conservative as I’ve always been, but I just can’t bring myself to carry the Republican label any longer.”
miamiherald.typepad.com

So, he’s still “conservative” but will no longer call himself a Republican….yeah, whatever. Let us know how that works out for you. Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, etc are conservative but don’t call themselves Republican either.

32 darthstar  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 2:57:00pm

Oklahoma and Utah are now part of the progressive nation. I’ll bet the GOP in the other states are beginning to regret getting so explicit in their own restrictions.

33 Decatur Deb  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 2:57:19pm

re: #30 makeitstop

That might be why he came back into the theater without the manager, just before shooting the poor guy.

The manager had probably heard the whole complaint at least once before.

Neighborhood Watch, Theater Cellphone Div.

34 blueraven  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 2:58:07pm

re: #28 Dark_Falcon

When he was part of the Tampa police department, he was once of the founders of its version of SWAT, the Tactical Response Team (TRT). Cops in elite units need to be in top shape and often maintaining a high level of fitness becomes a big part of their self image.

Yes, and old former “tough guys” often feel a need to prove they still are.

35 AlexRogan  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 3:00:12pm

re: #28 Dark_Falcon

When he was part of the Tampa police department, he was once of the founders of its version of SWAT, the Tactical Response Team (TRT). Cops in elite units need to be in top shape and often maintaining a high level of fitness becomes a big part of their self image.

And now, he’s a stone-cold killer, passing and carrying out a death sentence against someone who was texting his daughter while waiting for a movie to start.

The rumblings that Reeves may attempt to invoke either SYG or diminished capacity (depending on the news outlet) makes me want to spit nails.

36 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 3:00:19pm

re: #32 darthstar

Oklahoma and Utah are now part of the progressive nation. I’ll bet the GOP in the other states are beginning to regret getting so explicit in their own restrictions.

Not sure if it helps or hurts that all three rulings against such bans in the last couple months fell within the same appeals circuit.

37 darthstar  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 3:00:42pm
39 BongCrodny  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 3:01:31pm

re: #17 Dr. Matt

A Tampa woman has come forward to report that Curtis Reeves gave her shit about using her phone in the same theatre 3 weeks ago. If indeed true, I predict there will be more people coming forward. I think we’ll discover that this is a case of a crotchety old man with a history of harassing cell phone users.

The thing about ticking time bombs is they eventually explode.

40 darthstar  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 3:03:01pm

re: #36 Targetpractice

Not sure if it helps or hurts that all three rulings against such bans in the last couple months fell within the same appeals circuit.

Another sign of the apocalypse - like Romney dancing gangnam style.

Youtube Video

41 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 3:03:09pm

Uncle Hal in Nazi-esque getup and hot pants? “Camp Wack-A-Boy?” A horde of angry demon children ready to kill Lewis with apparently real arrows? WTF?

42 Mattand  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 3:04:37pm

re: #38 Charles Johnson

A bizarre (and a little creepy) DC cover from October 1967 - Jerry Lewis, America’s Funniest Comic Mag!

What.

The.

Fuck?

43 AlexRogan  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 3:04:37pm

re: #41 Charles Johnson

Uncle Hal in Nazi-esque getup and hot pants? “Camp Wack-A-Boy?” A horde of angry demon children ready to kill Lewis with apparently real arrows? WTF?

Someone at DC was taking some really good shit when they did that comic.

44 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 3:04:59pm

The cover might make sense if you read the comic, but often with these books it was completely random and unrelated to the story. Whoever drew this one had some… issues.

45 Targetpractice  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 3:05:26pm

And to my utter lack of shock, the Freepers are already talking secession.

46 Decatur Deb  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 3:06:17pm

Off to plot the overthrow of the Alabama TPGOP. BBL.

47 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 3:07:14pm

re: #35 AlexRogan

And now, he’s a stone-cold killer, passing and carrying out a death sentence against someone who was texting his daughter while waiting for a movie to start.

The rumblings that Reeves may attempt to invoke either SYG or diminished capacity (depending on the news outlet) makes me want to spit nails.

Not stone-cold, as it seems clear he was angry when he fired. But he was trained to kill when needed*, and yesterday he turned that skill to a vile purpose.


*: The training was needed for his job with the TPD, to be clear. While some 1990’s and later SWAT formations haven’t been needed, back in the 1980’s Tampa did have a need for such a unit. The threat of spillover of Miami’s drug violence was real, and the “cocaine cowboys” had a lot of firepower.

48 Mattand  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 3:07:33pm

re: #35 AlexRogan

And now, he’s a stone-cold killer, passing and carrying out a death sentence against someone who was texting his daughter while waiting for a movie to start.

The rumblings that Reeves may attempt to invoke either SYG or diminished capacity (depending on the news outlet) makes me want to spit nails.

I think they’ve ruled out SYG, at least from something I read yesterday.

Although, as I said in the previous thread, if the guy Reeves shot had been black, I guarantee Reeves would be sitting in his living room right now, and not a jail cell.

49 EPR-radar  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 3:13:50pm

re: #31 Dr. Matt

So, he’s still “conservative” but will no longer call himself a Republican….yeah, whatever. Let us know how that works out for you. Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, etc are conservative but don’t call themselves Republican either.

Being an ex-member of GOProud is much like being an ex flat-earther. It is progress, but such a tiny amount of it.

50 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 3:15:02pm

re: #48 Mattand

I think they’ve ruled out SYG, at least from something I read yesterday.

Although, as I said in the previous thread, if the guy Reeves shot had been black, I guarantee Reeves would be sitting in his living room right now, and not a jail cell.

Reeves left the theater and then came back. That normally nullifies claims of self defense since if Reeves had been facing a legitimate threat he would have been voluntarily reentering a zone of danger.

But in reality a claim of self-defense will likely be denied because having popcorn thrown at you does not constitute a fear of death or grave bodily injury.

51 wrenchwench  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 3:17:35pm

What does this t-shirt say?

abqjournal.photoshelter.com

52 darthstar  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 3:19:14pm

Easy come, easy go.

53 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 3:19:30pm

re: #51 wrenchwench

What does this t-shirt say?

abqjournal.photoshelter.com

“We don’t rebuild,
WE RELOAD!!!”

54 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 3:20:06pm

re: #52 darthstar

Easy come, easy go.

Will you let me go?

55 jaunte  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 3:20:45pm

re: #51 wrenchwench

56 darthstar  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 3:22:41pm

re: #54 Dark_Falcon

Will you let me go?

Fuckin’ earworm is lodged firmly now.

57 RealityBasedSteve  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 3:23:00pm

Turn Off Your Phone

RBS

58 wrenchwench  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 3:23:05pm

re: #53 Dark_Falcon

“We don’t rebuild,
WE RELOAD!!!”

What do you think that means?

Do you think she threw that on to go pick up her kid after the school shooting as a message?

59 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 3:23:28pm

re: #55 jaunte

Thank you for posting that. I want to be clear that what I posted at #53 was done as an exact transcription, and should not be read as agreement with the transcribed slogan.

60 Eclectic Cyborg  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 3:24:11pm

re: #56 darthstar

Fuckin’ earworm is lodged firmly now.

Mama, I just killed a man…

61 darthstar  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 3:25:00pm

re: #57 RealityBasedSteve

Turn Off Your Phone

RBS

I got that gun. Only use it for varmints and plinking.

62 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 3:25:06pm

re: #58 wrenchwench

What do you think that means?

Do you think she threw that on to go pick up her kid after the school shooting as a message?

If its OK with you, I’d rather not speculate about its meaning.

63 wrenchwench  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 3:26:13pm

re: #55 jaunte

[Embedded image]

The caption:

School Shooting

Students are escorted from Berrendo Middle School after a shooting incident, Tuesday, Jan. 14, 2014, in Roswell, N.M. Roswell police said the suspected shooter was arrested at the school, but authorities have not said if there were any injuries. The school has been placed on lockdown. No other details are yet available. (AP Photo/Roswell Daily Record, Mark Wilson)

Two kids were wounded, a girl seriously and a boy critically. The shooter was talked into putting his weapon (likely a sawed-off shotgun) down, and is in custody. The shooter and his victims are all 13 or 14 years old.

64 Eclectic Cyborg  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 3:26:36pm

re: #58 wrenchwench

What do you think that means?

Do you think she threw that on to go pick up her kid after the school shooting as a message?

I prefer to think it was an unfortunate coincidence. She probably forgot she even had that particular shirt on today.

65 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 3:26:38pm

re: #60 Eclectic Cyborg

Mama, I just killed a man…

Youtube Video

66 Justanotherhuman  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 3:26:49pm

re: #58 wrenchwench

What do you think that means?

Do you think she threw that on to go pick up her kid after the school shooting as a message?

T-shirt courage. Sort of like “drunk courage”. And if she acted on it, she’d be fucking dangerous.

67 Dr. Matt  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 3:27:55pm

re: #63 wrenchwench

The caption:

Two kids were wounded, a girl seriously and a boy critically. The shooter was talked into putting his weapon (likely a sawed-off shotgun) down, and is in custody. The shooter and his victims are all 13 or 14 years old.

The shooter was a 12 yr old

68 Eclectic Cyborg  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 3:28:07pm

re: #65 Dark_Falcon

Well somebody HAD to do it.

One of my favourite experiences at a Karaoke bar was when a group of people got onstage to do that song and the WHOLE FREAKING BAR literally sang along to every word and applauded wildly at the end.

I had fun that night.

69 Eclectic Cyborg  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 3:28:36pm

re: #67 Dr. Matt

The shooter was a 12 yr old

I’m assuming the gun (or guns) involved belonged to parents or another relative?

70 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 3:29:10pm

re: #68 Eclectic Cyborg

Well somebody HAD to do it.

One of my favourite experiences at a Karaoke bar was when a group of people got onstage to do that song and the WHOLE FREAKING BAR literally sang along to every word and applauded wildly at the end.

I had fun that night.

It’s THAT kind of classic song.

71 simoom  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 3:29:17pm

Got to love that AP headline on this story /:

Phone companies don’t want the job of spying on customers’ calls

So keeping a customer phone record database, which they all already do anyway, is now “spying on customers’ calls”. I’m guessing that sort of change in baseline journalistic rhetoric is much more the issue than liability concerns (which congress has addressed in the past) — that the public & media will shift some of their conspiratorial flailing at the NSA to their companies.

72 RealityBasedSteve  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 3:29:39pm

re: #65 Dark_Falcon
Mama, I just killed a man…

[Embedded content]

The “Behind the Music” on that album is really interesting. I’m not a musician by any means, but I was fascinated by how they did the dubbing, the mixes, everything. It’s neat to listen to the studio tapes with the producer or engineer there working the sliders to show something or another off.

RBS

73 Dr. Matt  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 3:30:16pm

re: #69 Eclectic Cyborg

I’m assuming the gun (or guns) involved belonged to parents or another relative?

That information hasn’t been released yet…..but, it’s a pretty reasonable assumption, IMO.

74 Eclectic Cyborg  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 3:30:42pm

re: #72 RealityBasedSteve

Mama, I just killed a man…

The “Behind the Music” on that album is really interesting. I’m not a musician by any means, but I was fascinated by how they did the dubbing, the mixes, everything. It’s neat to listen to the studio tapes with the producer or engineer there working the sliders to show something or another off.

RBS

I know it was more than Mercury who did that album, but Freddie really was a musical genius in SO many ways. He understood the art as well as the science of creating good music.

75 RealityBasedSteve  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 3:32:12pm

re: #74 Eclectic Cyborg

I know it was more than Mercury who did that album, but Freddie really was a musical genius in SO many ways. He understood the art as well as the science of creating good music.

Brian May was no slouch either. Now he’s a teaching PhD in Astrophysics. Sort of like Buckaroo Banzai.

RBS

77 wrenchwench  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 3:33:11pm

re: #66 Justanotherhuman

T-shirt courage. Sort of like “drunk courage”. And if she acted on it, she’d be fucking dangerous.

re: #67 Dr. Matt

The shooter was a 12 yr old

OK, now I’m seeing the shooter as 12, the male victim as 11 or 12, and the female victim is 13.

78 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 3:33:58pm
Brown urged Frontline to turn over the documents. “If the documents are purported to be what you say they are, then you may knowingly be in possession of stolen property,” Brown wrote.

ahahahaaaahahahahaaaa

79 EPR-radar  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 3:34:44pm

re: #8 Kragar

This is a very favorable ruling. It looks like the judge applied some version of the “rational basis” review for the OK state definition of marriage, which is the standard of review that makes it easiest to uphold the law.

This district court found no rational basis at all for the law, so it was struck down as unconstitutional.

80 RealityBasedSteve  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 3:35:57pm

re: #79 EPR-radar

This is a very favorable ruling. It looks like the judge applied some version of the “rational basis” review for the OK state definition of marriage, which is the standard of review that makes it easiest to uphold the law.

This district court found no rational basis at all for the law, so it was struck down as unconstitutional.

Cries of “Black Robed Judicial Activists” in 3, 2, 1..

RBS

81 EPR-radar  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 3:37:17pm

re: #80 RealityBasedSteve

Cries of “Black Robed Judicial Activists” in 3, 2, 1..

RBS

Of course. Such whining is to be expected as being as inevitable as death and taxes.

82 Justanotherhuman  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 3:37:49pm

re: #67 Dr. Matt

The shooter was a 12 yr old

I remember when my sons were 12. They would have had no idea of where to get a gun, and even if they had, they would have been too frightened to even hold it, even though they had played with toy ones, cap guns, like so many other kids. Even today, they don’t own real guns.

Were kids 40 yrs ago really more innocent than today? Sixty years ago, I know I was at 12. A gun would have scared the hell out of me, too.

83 abolitionist  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 3:37:57pm

re: #24 Political Atheist

Is this not just keeping data they already have, by straight operational necessity and keeping it longer? If not the following might not apply. If so…

There is a long list of things these companies do not like to do but do anyway by way of regulations. And Nat’l security letters. I see some fainting couch theater from them if they object very strongly. PR department mentality.

Heck it might be a cheaper way to go than this whole separate NSA database and all the moving parts that go with a big enterprise like that.

On the hacking threat-I have a hard time thinking this metadata is going to be highly sought after by criminals. What’s the value? Credit card data of course is a cash cow for them. But telephone metadata? Who would bust their butt to get that?

IMO, all suggestions that private companies should hold everyones’ private data is utter BS, and an attempt to promote the false notion that the massive amounts of private data already (and still) collected is somehow compartmentalized, ordered, consolodated, and labeled as to whose private data is in any particular file.

The reality is that most “private” data is scattered all over, in thousands of places, as are various means for sifting thru it, and collecting (in mere seconds/minutes) what amounts to a rich “profile” of nearly anyone on earth, for consideration/judgement by an analyst, LEO, or whatever. In other words, J E Hoover -style centralized files don’t exist anymore. (Access is way too slow and cumbersome.) But their electronic analogs can be created at nearly the speed of light, and then maybe not exist again a minute later, unless they were somehow interesting.

In other words, private data is widely scattered, and the means to exploit Big Data is also widely scattered, but all of that is very much under the control of a defacto partnership of govt agencies and international corporations.

Promoting notions of databases in any classic sense for Big Data is a Big Lie.

84 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 3:38:00pm

How is everyone?

85 darthstar  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 3:38:11pm
86 erik_t  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 3:39:26pm

re: #82 Justanotherhuman

I remember when my sons were 12. They would have had no idea of where to get a gun, and even if they had, they would have been too frightened to even hold it, even though they had played with toy ones, cap guns, like so many other kids. Even today, they don’t own real guns.

Were kids 40 yrs ago really more innocent than today? Sixty years ago, I know I was at 12. A gun would have scared the hell out of me, too.

No. Most 12 year olds today would be scared shitless of handling a firearm, except possibly outside of a .22 on a gun range or something.

87 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 3:39:29pm

re: #82 Justanotherhuman

I remember when my sons were 12. They would have had no idea of where to get a gun, and even if they had, they would have been too frightened to even hold it, even though they had played with toy ones, cap guns, like so many other kids. Even today, they don’t own real guns.

Were kids 40 yrs ago really more innocent than today? Sixty years ago, I know I was at 12. A gun would have scared the hell out of me, too.

Not if you were raised around guns.

You’d be surprised what kids know . . .

88 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 3:39:34pm

re: #82 Justanotherhuman

I remember when my sons were 12. They would have had no idea of where to get a gun, and even if they had, they would have been too frightened to even hold it, even though they had played with toy ones, cap guns, like so many other kids. Even today, they don’t own real guns.

Were kids 40 yrs ago really more innocent than today? Sixty years ago, I know I was at 12. A gun would have scared the hell out of me, too.

To be fair, lots of families in western states like New Mexico own shotguns and a good number of kids there learn to shoot by age 12.

89 Eclectic Cyborg  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 3:39:49pm

re: #82 Justanotherhuman

I was at a Bass Pro store in Alabama a few weeks ago. At the front of the store they had a photo of an 8 year old boy who had just bagged a 100lb deer on a hunt.

90 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 3:40:55pm

These super-heroes were really kind of assholes when you get down to it.

91 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 3:41:32pm

My kid had his “marksmanship” certificate by age 12. Rifle Team his freshman year. He would not have taken any firearms out of the gun safe without his father present if he wished to continue to live in this house.

Education is better than ignorance IMHO

92 jaunte  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 3:42:34pm

re: #90 Charles Johnson

Looks like they needed superpowers to get a morning shave in.

93 darthstar  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 3:42:54pm
94 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 3:43:35pm

The kid had a sawed-off shotgun?

95 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 3:43:55pm

re: #92 jaunte

Looks like they needed superpowers to get a morning shave in.

They’re probably drinking, too. What losers.

96 b_sharp  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 3:44:16pm

re: #86 erik_t

No. Most 12 year olds today would be scared shitless of handling a firearm, except possibly outside of a .22 on a gun range or something.

Fired my first gun at 11. Fired my first shotgun at the same age. It was also the first time I landed on my ass from the kickback.

97 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 3:44:34pm

re: #84 FemNaziBitch

How is everyone?

I’m OK, but you should see this:

Nirbheek, India’s first gun for women

LUCKNOW: Giving more power to women to defend themselves and as a tribute to December 2012 ganrape victim Nirbhaya, the Indian Ordnance Factory, Kanpur, has manufactured Nirbheek, a .32 bore light weight revolver, India’s first firearm designed for women. At 500 grams, it is also the first IOF handgun made of titanium alloy.

Priced at Rs 1,22,360, Nirbheek was launched on January 6 and has already received around 80 formal enquiries and over 20 bookings. “At least 80% bookings are from women licensees,” says Abdul Hameed, general manager of IOF. Described by arms experts as an Indian hybrid of a Webley & Scott and Smith & Wesson, for its simple mechanism and light frame, it is the smallest revolver made in India — an ideal to fit a purse or a small hand bag.

In a state where government offers arms licences as incentive to achieve wheat procurement and immunization targets, it is not surprising that a total of 11,22,814 persons have licensed arms as per the state home department records. This is over four times the count of firearms available with the Uttar Pradesh Police (2.5 lakh). Hence a ready market already seems in place for Nirbheek.

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

They actually named the gun for one of the women who was gang raped last year. I’d posted about it this morning, but I wanted to make sure you saw this.

98 GlutenFreeJesus  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 3:46:08pm

re: #15 Kragar

If only we had some sort of national agency focused on security that could collect and store the information for future use.

That’s just it. The dudebros don’t want anyone storing anything. For any reason.

99 EPR-radar  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 3:46:46pm

re: #93 darthstar

Is there anything in print approaching a reasonable argument as to why having no personal guns allowed at this big gun trade show is not totally hypocritical in view of the NRA’s mantra of “guns everywhere”?

100 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 3:47:24pm

re: #99 EPR-radar

Is there anything in print approaching a reasonable argument as to why having no personal guns allowed at this big gun trade show is not totally hypocritical in view of the NRA’s mantra of “guns everywhere”?

They have to follow State Law?

101 EPR-radar  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 3:48:18pm

re: #100 FemNaziBitch

They have to follow State Law?

That would do it, for sure.

Edited to note that the authority cited for this prohibition on the ShotShow web site is Sands Expo Convention Center policy (which may be based on state law).

102 Eclectic Cyborg  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 3:48:32pm

re: #99 EPR-radar

Is there anything in print approaching a reasonable argument as to why having no personal guns allowed at this big gun trade show is not totally hypocritical in view of the NRA’s mantra of “guns everywhere”?

I went to a gun show here in MS awhile back. Only unloaded weapons were allowed in. They had guys at the gates checking all incoming weapons to make sure they were completely unloaded (empty clips, no bullet in the chamber, etc.)

I think it had less to do with politics and more to do with insurance liabilities for the organizers.

103 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 3:49:49pm
As the verdict was read Monday, NBC reported, the victim’s father Ron (himself a former Fullerton PD deputy) “burst into tears, kicking or stomping his foot.” “Where do we really find justice any more in our justice system? It has been proven right here today that they will get away with it. They will get away with it,” Thomas’ father said.
104 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 3:50:02pm

re: #94 FemNaziBitch

The kid had a sawed-off shotgun?

That’s what some of the reports say. Short Barreled Shotguns are legal in New Mexico, but they have to be registered with the BATFE and the person taking ownership of one has to pay a $200 transfer tax. if the kid sawed off the barrel himself he’s looking at federal criminal charges in addition to the state charges he’ll face.

105 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 3:50:33pm

re: #104 Dark_Falcon

That’s what some of the reports say. Short Barreled Shotguns are legal in New Mexico, but they have to be registered with the BATFE and the person taking ownership of one has to pay a $200 transfer tax. if the kid sawed off the barrel himself he’s looking at federal criminal charges in addition to the state charges he’ll face.

Why are they legal in NM —what is the reasoning?

106 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 3:50:45pm

re: #101 EPR-radar

That would do it, for sure.

Hey, posting a sign is easy.

107 b.d.  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 3:50:45pm

re: #90 Charles Johnson

These super-heroes were really kind of assholes when you get down to it.

[Embedded image]

If they didn’t have superpowers anymore why did they wear their costumes?

108 RealityBasedSteve  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 3:51:15pm

re: #92 jaunte

Looks like they needed superpowers to get a morning shave in.

Wouldn’t Superman’s beard be tougher than a razor?

RBS

109 Justanotherhuman  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 3:51:25pm

I never needed a gun. I’ve never hunted, nor shot a pistol, even at a gun range. Maybe that’s from being a city dweller most of my life.

It’s also a lifestyle choice. Just not mine.

In fact, most Americans don’t own guns. A minority own many guns, almost as many guns as the population of the US.

A minority of Americans own guns, but just how many is unclear

pewresearch.org

Of course, this is self-reporting. It would also be interesting to find out from public records (were it possible) to find out who are registered firearms owners and dealers.

110 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 3:51:44pm

re: #103 FemNaziBitch

video to go with linked article.
Youtube Video

111 EPR-radar  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 3:52:15pm

re: #108 RealityBasedSteve

Wouldn’t Superman’s beard be tougher than a razor?

RBS

That’s what heat vision and a mirror is for. Just don’t ask about how the mirror is supposed to withstand the heat vision.

112 b.d.  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 3:52:16pm

re: #108 RealityBasedSteve

Wouldn’t Superman’s beard be tougher than a razor?

RBS

Not a razor blade made out of Kryptonite.

113 Justanotherhuman  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 3:52:46pm

re: #97 Dark_Falcon

I’m OK, but you should see this:

Nirbheek, India’s first gun for women

timesofindia.indiatimes.com

They actually named the gun for one of the women who was gang raped last year. I’d posted about it this morning, but I wanted to make sure you saw this.

Terrific. Are they going to give her royalties for using her name publicly like that? Disgusting.

114 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 3:52:48pm

re: #109 Justanotherhuman

I never needed a gun. I’ve never hunted, nor shot a pistol, even at a gun range. Maybe that’s from being a city dweller most of my life.

It’s also a lifestyle choice. Just not mine.

In fact, most Americans don’t own guns. A minority own many guns, almost as many guns as the population of the US.

A minority of Americans own guns, but just how many is unclear

pewresearch.org

Of course, this is self-reporting. It would also be interesting to find out from public records (were it possible) to find out who are registered firearms owners and dealers.

There are more illegal guns than legal, IIRC.

then again, we really don’t know because until very recently there was a federal moratorium on ANY FIREARM RESEARCH.

115 William of Orange  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 3:53:53pm

This policy in itself is a product of this paranoid society, and I hate it. Not only for privacy reasons but mostly the security of my data. I don’t live in the United States, I’m not an American citizen. Just this day we woke up to a disturbing fact that a major telecommunication hub over here had an American office ON SITE where no other people are welcome. In my own country!


International Telecommunication hub in Burum, the Netherlands. One of the buildings is off limits to anyone. Only US personnel with clearance is allowed in.

No one knows exactly what’s going on inthere….

116 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 3:54:06pm

re: #113 Justanotherhuman

Terrific. Are they going to give her royalties for using her name publicly like that? Disgusting.

rape and murder is a VERY REAL threat to women in India.

117 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 3:55:21pm

re: #105 FemNaziBitch

Why are they legal in NM —what is the reasoning?

I do not know. I will say that murders with Nation Firearms Act (NFA)-registered weapons are exceedingly rare. More likely than not, if the shotgun was shortened it was shortened illegally. If so, whoever shortened it will get 5-10 years in federal prison.

118 Eclectic Cyborg  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 3:56:19pm

re: #117 Dark_Falcon

I do not know. I will say that murders with Nation Firearms Act (NFA)-registered weapons are exceedingly rare. More likely than not, if the shotgun was shortened it was shortened illegally. If so, whoever shortened it will get 5-10 years in federal prison.

Unless of course, the kid shortened it himself, in which case he’ll probably be out by 18.

119 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 3:56:50pm

re: #113 Justanotherhuman

Terrific. Are they going to give her royalties for using her name publicly like that? Disgusting.

The article does not answer that question.

120 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 3:58:25pm

re: #118 Eclectic Cyborg

Unless of course, the kid shortened it himself, in which case he’ll probably be out by 18.

Not with combined federal and state charges. He’d be lucky if he was out at 21, if he’s unlucky it’ll be a good bit longer.

121 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 3:59:15pm

the Rapes and Murder stories we hear in India are random crimes. Very different than this country in which the vast majority of women who die from violent crime do so by the hand of their significant other.

In this country, women who are already conditioned/brainwashed by their abusers are NOT candidates for firearm ownership.

122 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 4:02:38pm

What possible legal use is there for a sawed-off shotgun. Weren’t they made illegal in the first place specifically because they were used in crime?

123 Pie-onist Overlord  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 4:03:47pm

re: #41 Charles Johnson

Uncle Hal in Nazi-esque getup and hot pants? “Camp Wack-A-Boy?” A horde of angry demon children ready to kill Lewis with apparently real arrows? WTF?

Jerry Lewis, the Adam Sandler of the 1960’s, except the French love him!

124 Justanotherhuman  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 4:05:20pm

re: #116 FemNaziBitch

rape and murder is a VERY REAL threat to women in India.

I’ve been a victim of rape but if anyone had dared name a gun after me, I’d have sued so fast it would have made their heads spin off their shoulders. It is a pretty damned cynical ploy to name a weapon after someone who has suffered so much already just to make money. I rather doubt those cheap guns will be of much use in preventing those kinds of crimes, esp when there are 2 or more perps committing them.

LE and the govt should jump up their game on preventing crimes against women in India and they’re not doing it.

125 kirkspencer  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 4:05:49pm

re: #117 Dark_Falcon

I do not know. I will say that murders with Nation Firearms Act (NFA)-registered weapons are exceedingly rare. More likely than not, if the shotgun was shortened it was shortened illegally. If so, whoever shortened it will get 5-10 years in federal prison.

Cite, or your belief?

126 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 4:06:10pm

And This Is How You Shut Down Your Twitter Critics

127 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 4:08:38pm

re: #124 Justanotherhuman

I’ve been a victim of rape but if anyone had dared name a gun after me, I’d have sued so fast it would have made their heads spin off their shoulders. It is a pretty damned cynical ploy to name a weapon after someone who has suffered so much already just to make money. I rather doubt those cheap guns will be of much use in preventing those kinds of crimes, esp when there are 2 or more perps committing them.

LE and the govt should jump up their game on preventing crimes against women in India and they’re not doing it.

so, Women are doing it themselves . .

There is one group of women who developed a short-legal knife to carry for self-defense.

It’s insane to me that they have to do this, but they do.

In this instance, naming a gun after a victim is an sign of empowerment—women in this part of the world aren’t used to having a sense of personal civil rights they way we have.

It will be interesting to see how it pans out.

128 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 4:09:20pm

re: #122 FemNaziBitch

What possible legal use is there for a sawed-off shotgun. Weren’t they made illegal in the first place specifically because they were used in crime?

Short-barreled shotguns are sometimes kept as home/business defense weapons. Some Border Patrol agents carry 14”-barreled Remington 870s for use in rugged terrain. Some hunters in the Southwest own that same sort of gun for hunting in areas where a longer barrel would be problematic.

Remember that to own such a weapon legally requires fingerprinting, a background check a good bit more through than that done for buying a normal shotgun, payment of a transfer tax, and the weapon is registered with the ATF.

129 simoom  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 4:09:49pm

re: #115 William of Orange

This policy in itself is a product of this paranoid society, and I hate it. Not only for privacy reasons but mostly the security of my data. I don’t live in the United States, I’m not an American citizen.

All these telecom companies already maintain years of customer records. Would having them be able to output some standardized format and have a required length of maintaining their records (2-3 yrs) in order to have an expedited response to individualized warrants really be that horrible?

No one knows exactly what’s going on inthere….

Your government does. The Netherlands is one of the so called “9 eyes” so it’s likely related to that signals intelligence alliance or NATO intelligence cooperation.

130 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 4:10:27pm

re: #128 Dark_Falcon

Short-barreled shotguns are sometimes kept as home/business defense weapons. Some Border Patrol agents carry 14”-barreled Remington 870s for use in rugged terrain. Some hunters in the Southwest own that same sort of gun for hunting in areas where a longer barrel would be problematic.

Remember that to own such a weapon legally requires fingerprinting, a background check a good bit more through than that done for buying a normal shotgun, payment of a transfer tax, and the weapon is registered with the ATF.

DF, i’d like to think it matters if a gun is “legally owned” or not, but in truth it doesn’t. Gun crimes are not prosecuted —criminals do not follow laws.

131 kirkspencer  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 4:11:27pm

re: #122 FemNaziBitch

What possible legal use is there for a sawed-off shotgun. Weren’t they made illegal in the first place specifically because they were used in crime?

Personally, were I to get another weapon for home defense it would likely be as short-barreled a shotgun as possible - “sawed off” if possible.

Shot - whether bird or double-ought - isn’t going through more than one wallboard wall. (well, if things are perfectly right the 00 can go through a second, but it’s gotta be close and aligned right). That means I’m not a threat to neighbors. The problem with the shotgun, however, is that the long barrel is unwieldy inside.

But yes, it was made illegal because it was the assault rifle of the day.

132 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 4:12:57pm

re: #125 kirkspencer

Cite, or your belief?

I’ll try to find the source. I’ve seen that factoid several times, though, and I will also say that I know of no school or mass shooting in my lifetime that used an NFA-registered firearm and I do keep track of the weapons used in these crimes.

I should point out that what I said applies to NFA-registered short barreled rifles and shotguns and automatic weapons. NFA-registered sound suppressors have on rare occasions been used for unlawful ends.

133 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 4:16:56pm

You know, we should have a contest.

In the dictionary, Rush Limbaugh’s picture is used to help define what word?

1- Pathetic?
2- narcissist

134 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 4:17:28pm

re: #132 Dark_Falcon

I’ll try to find the source. I’ve seen that factoid several times, though, and I will also say that I know of no school or mass shooting in my lifetime that used an NFA-registered firearm and I do keep track of the weapons used in these crimes.

I should point out that what I said applies to NFA-registered short barreled rifles and shotguns and automatic weapons. NFA-registered sound suppressors have on rare occasions been used for unlawful ends.

Adam Lanza?

135 Eclectic Cyborg  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 4:18:03pm

Hmmm…LGF is now serving up ads for dating Muslim women.

It’s a conspiracy! Charles is a secret agent of the Brotherhood!!

/

136 kirkspencer  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 4:18:47pm

re: #132 Dark_Falcon

I’ll try to find the source. I’ve seen that factoid several times, though, and I will also say that I know of no school or mass shooting in my lifetime that used an NFA-registered firearm and I do keep track of the weapons used in these crimes.

I should point out that what I said applies to NFA-registered short barreled rifles and shotguns and automatic weapons. NFA-registered sound suppressors have on rare occasions been used for unlawful ends.

I thought the weapons used in Newton were registered?

137 Dr Lizardo  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 4:19:13pm

re: #126 FemNaziBitch

And This Is How You Shut Down Your Twitter Critics

Love it.

138 EPR-radar  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 4:19:53pm

re: #133 FemNaziBitch

You know, we should have a contest.

In the dictionary, Rush Limbaugh’s picture is used to help define what word?

1- Pathetic?
2- narcissist

I think it could end up being a new word —- the language is crying out for a single word that means “toxic bag of flaming shit” and ‘limbaugh’ is just right for this.

139 Backwoods_Sleuth  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 4:20:46pm

re: #138 EPR-radar

I think it could end up being a new word —- the language is crying out for a single word that means “toxic bag of flaming shit” and ‘limbaugh’ is just right for this.

I think the word is “RushLimbaugh”.

140 Justanotherhuman  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 4:21:19pm

Spy court judge slams proposed privacy advocate

news.yahoo.com

WASHINGTON (AP) — The U.S. judiciary told Congress on Tuesday it opposes the idea of having an independent privacy advocate on the secret Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court, while members of Congress lauded the idea at a Capitol Hill hearing.

“Speaking for the entire U.S. judiciary, U.S. District Judge John D. Bates sent a letter to the Senate Intelligence Committee saying that appointing an independent advocate to the secret surveillance court is unnecessary and possibly counterproductive, and he slammed other key reforms as adding too heavy a caseload to the secret court’s work. In FISA court hearings, judges only hear from the government seeking a spy warrant.

(snip)

“A former top NSA lawyer and Bush administration national security official who has represented phone firms, Stewart Baker, said Congress only grudgingly granted legal protections to the phone companies in the immediate years after the 9/11 attacks.

“The phone companies were seared by their experience in Congress and can’t be enthusiastic about a return engagement,” Baker said.”

141 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 4:25:21pm

re: #124 Justanotherhuman

I’ve been a victim of rape but if anyone had dared name a gun after me, I’d have sued so fast it would have made their heads spin off their shoulders. It is a pretty damned cynical ploy to name a weapon after someone who has suffered so much already just to make money. I rather doubt those cheap guns will be of much use in preventing those kinds of crimes, esp when there are 2 or more perps committing them.

LE and the govt should jump up their game on preventing crimes against women in India and they’re not doing it.

The guns in question actually cost $2000. They have titanium frames and I assure you those aren’t cheap. Such frames were used to reduce weight and make the gun easier to carry.

While .32 Webley is not a big caliber, like the larger Webley calibers one of the available rounds is a flat lead cylinder round called the “Manstopper”. It expands massively upon impact and is quite lethal against unarmored personnel. It is also apparently legal for the caliber in India.

As is often the case, a gun’s performance can be greatly improved through the use of proper ammunition.

142 Kragar  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 4:25:23pm
143 kirkspencer  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 4:25:26pm

re: #136 kirkspencer

I thought the weapons used in Newton were registered?

Nevermind. I keep forgetting that ‘NFA registered’ is shorthand for ‘all the specially licensed firearms.’

144 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 4:26:22pm

XTC - Stupidly Happy

Youtube Video

145 EPR-radar  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 4:27:47pm

re: #142 Kragar

Please proceed, Wisconsin Republicans. It looks like the only way we’ll get a reasonable level of union activity and influence in the US again is if the same old battles have to be re-fought a second time (child labor, work week etc.).

146 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 4:27:50pm

re: #134 FemNaziBitch

Adam Lanza?

re: #136 kirkspencer

I thought the weapons used in Newton were registered?

They were not NFA-registered. The Bushmaster rifle Adam Lanza used was semi-auto only and had a barrel longer than 16” as well as the requisite overall length as well. As such it was not an NFA firearm.

147 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 4:28:18pm

re: #143 kirkspencer

Nevermind. I keep forgetting that ‘NFA registered’ is shorthand for ‘all the specially licensed firearms.’

Thank you for that.

148 Justanotherhuman  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 4:28:22pm

re: #141 Dark_Falcon

The guns in question actually cost $2000. They have titanium frames and I assure you those aren’t cheap. Such frames were used to reduce weight and make the gun easier to carry.

While .32 Webley is not a big caliber, like the larger Webley calibers one of the available rounds is a flat lead cylinder round called the “Manstopper”. It expands massively upon impact and is quite lethal against unarmored personnel. It is also apparently legal for the caliber in India.

As is often the case, a gun’s performance can be greatly improved through the use of proper ammunition.

$2,000? So, basically, what you’re saying is that the vast majority of Indian women are still on their own. Most Indians are still very poor. Who is going to own those guns, do you suppose?

149 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 4:28:45pm
150 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 4:30:12pm

re: #148 Justanotherhuman

$2,000? So, basically, what you’re saying is that the vast majority of Indian women are still on their own. Most Indians are still very poor. Who is going to own those guns, do you suppose?

Poor people/minorities are never allowed to own firearms/weapons. Our own gun laws are proof of that.

a $2000 firearm in India means a wealthy woman can go around without her cadre of bodyguards.

151 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 4:32:23pm

re: #132 Dark_Falcon

I’ll try to find the source. I’ve seen that factoid several times, though, and I will also say that I know of no school or mass shooting in my lifetime that used an NFA-registered firearm and I do keep track of the weapons used in these crimes.

I should point out that what I said applies to NFA-registered short barreled rifles and shotguns and automatic weapons. NFA-registered sound suppressors have on rare occasions been used for unlawful ends.

Still it’s a weak argument. Few guns are registered in the US, compared to the number owned.

Adam Lanza was trained in an NRA household. He wasn’t some stereotyped minority or immigrant gang banger. He was raised as a person should be raised to own and use firearms.

Until we take mental health seriously in this country, I don’t think anything will change. The taboos surround it are insane.

152 EPR-radar  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 4:32:53pm

re: #150 FemNaziBitch

Poor people/minorities are never allowed to own firearms/weapons. Our own gun laws are proof of that.

a $2000 firearm in India means a wealthy woman can go around without her cadre of bodyguards.

Provided she does not run into a sufficiently large gang bent on mayhem or worse… The posse of bodyguards would still seem to be essential in many cases.

153 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 4:34:18pm

re: #148 Justanotherhuman

$2,000? So, basically, what you’re saying is that the vast majority of Indian women are still on their own. Most Indians are still very poor. Who is going to own those guns, do you suppose?

It’s intended for the wealthy and middle class.

One fun additional angle is the place where it is built, Lucknow, has a substantial Muslim population, some of whom are middle and upper class. So this gun is going to be purchased and carried by Muslim women, a factoid that can be trotted out to send Gellerites and other species of anti-Muslim bigot into frothing fits of rage and fear.

154 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 4:34:26pm

re: #152 EPR-radar

Provided she does not run into a sufficiently large gang bent on mayhem or worse… The posse of bodyguards would still seem to be essential in many cases.

true.

One also never knows which random poor woman has access to a rich person who wants her to be safe —servants, employees, lovers, etc.

As I said earlier, it will be interesting to see how this pans out. Abusers in India are cowardly bullies who are not used to having women fight back.

155 wrenchwench  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 4:35:25pm
156 Pie-onist Overlord  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 4:35:37pm

WITS I just can’t even…

157 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 4:35:48pm

re: #153 Dark_Falcon

It’s intended for the wealthy and middle class.

One fun additional angle is the place where it is built, Lucknow, has a substantial Muslim population, some of whom are middle and upper class. So this gun is going to be purchased and carried by Muslim women, a factoid that can be trotted out to send Gellerites and other species of anti-Muslim bigot into frothing fits of rage and fear.

The ones most likely to have a young, unmarried daughter riding the bus to private school or work.

I can see that.

158 Justanotherhuman  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 4:36:27pm

LA mayor’s car hits pedestrian…

159 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 4:39:23pm

Neil deGrasse Tyson Lists 8 (Free) Books Every Intelligent Person Should Read

read 4, perused 2 more.

addition: went to Catholic School and am not going to read the Bible cover-to-cover —sorry, not going to happen.

160 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 4:40:20pm
161 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 4:40:38pm

re: #151 FemNaziBitch

I asked a legal question by you and kirkspencer. I always respond to those with an answer about the law. I feel it important to establish what the law is in such cases before delving into the larger societal and cultural questions.
It helps reduce confusion about the law to state it plainly before going into other matters.

162 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 4:41:33pm
163 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 4:42:28pm

re: #156 Pie-onist Overlord

WITS I just can’t even…

[Embedded content]

It’s a “compared to combat, most life problems are nothing” type of argument.

164 Justanotherhuman  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 4:43:25pm

It appears that some in India agree with me on this very expensive gun for women situation.

India’s light-weight gun for women slammed as ‘abhorrent’

cnn.com

Binalakshmi Nepram, founder of the Control Arms Foundation of India, described the new gun as “an insult.”

“Women in India feel this gun is not going to help in security,” she said. “And we do not believe the gun is a solution to ending sexual violence.”

(snip)

“Gun licenses are given rarely — only to those with money and clout, and that means overwhelmingly men. Poor women in India are unlikely to have the means or the access to own a gun,” said Ruchira Gupta, a women’s rights activist who is founder of Apne Aap Women Worldwide.”

165 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 4:43:27pm


against popcorn?

166 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 4:45:05pm

re: #164 Justanotherhuman

It appears that some in India agree with me on this very expensive gun for women situation.

India’s light-weight gun for women slammed as ‘abhorrent’

cnn.com

Binalakshmi Nepram, founder of the Control Arms Foundation of India, described the new gun as “an insult.”

“Women in India feel this gun is not going to help in security,” she said. “And we do not believe the gun is a solution to ending sexual violence.”

(snip)

“Gun licenses are given rarely — only to those with money and clout, and that means overwhelmingly men. Poor women in India are unlikely to have the means or the access to own a gun,” said Ruchira Gupta, a women’s rights activist who is founder of Apne Aap Women Worldwide.”

of course there are —it’s never a cut n’ dried situation with firearms.

And, remember, US media is NEVER going to report any positive reports on gun ownership. It’s not PC and there is a practical reason —it would actually promote a surge in gun purchases—which is counter-productive.

167 AlexRogan  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 4:45:19pm

re: #140 Justanotherhuman

Spy court judge slams proposed privacy advocate

news.yahoo.com

WASHINGTON (AP) — The U.S. judiciary told Congress on Tuesday it opposes the idea of having an independent privacy advocate on the secret Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court, while members of Congress lauded the idea at a Capitol Hill hearing.

“Speaking for the entire U.S. judiciary, U.S. District Judge John D. Bates sent a letter to the Senate Intelligence Committee saying that appointing an independent advocate to the secret surveillance court is unnecessary and possibly counterproductive, and he slammed other key reforms as adding too heavy a caseload to the secret court’s work. In FISA court hearings, judges only hear from the government seeking a spy warrant.”

Too fucking bad, Judge Bates; you don’t get to escape proper oversight by the people you represent just because you think it’s going to make your job harder.

168 Backwoods_Sleuth  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 4:47:02pm

I want to go to this place right now…

169 BeenHereAwhile  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 4:47:44pm

re: #57 RealityBasedSteve

Turn Off Your Phone

RBS

That’s has to be approx $450K of weaponery.

170 allegro  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 4:48:57pm

re: #165 FemNaziBitch

against popcorn?

It had extra butter. Coulda given him a heart attack.

171 EPR-radar  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 4:50:43pm

re: #170 allegro

It had extra butter. Coulda given him a heart attack.

The fumes of the artificial butter flavoring agent in the ten-gallon bucket of popcorn could stun an ox at twenty paces…

172 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 4:50:59pm
173 RealityBasedSteve  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 4:52:09pm

re: #169 BeenHereAwhile

That’s has to be approx $450K of weaponery.

and at appx 3000 rounds per minutes for each one, feeding it isn’t going to be cheap.

RBS

174 Justanotherhuman  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 4:52:39pm

re: #167 AlexRogan

Too fucking bad, Judge Bates; you don’t get to escape proper oversight by the people you represent just because you think it’s going to make your job harder.

He also doesn’t make the law. He can chime in all he wants, but in the end, it’s Congress who will determine the outcome.

OTOH, I don’t think it’s very smart to put a “civilian” untrained person who is just an advocate on the bench just to bend the court decisions. Most of those cases don’t even get to the FISC unless there is a reason for them to get there—where info has been gathered that would be evidence enough for the court to issue a warrant to get more information.

175 Backwoods_Sleuth  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 4:52:50pm

re: #172 FemNaziBitch

[Embedded content]

well, if they have penis pumps, they don’t need any of those pesky wimmins feminizing their atmospheres…

176 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 4:53:08pm
177 calochortus  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 4:53:21pm

re: #163 Dark_Falcon

It’s a “compared to combat, most life problems are nothing” type of argument.

Yes, but even if that were true, which I don’t think it is, so what? (Yeah, I know it’s not your personal philosophy, so I’m not asking you specifically, DF.)

178 Pie-onist Overlord  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 4:54:07pm

re: #163 Dark_Falcon

It’s a “compared to combat, most life problems are nothing” type of argument.

“Lone Survivor” was the movie that was playing when that guy was killed for texting so I thought he was referring to that and I’m like WTF.

179 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 4:55:22pm

Fox News creating its own political cult

complete with quote from Bozell.

180 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 4:55:32pm

re: #165 FemNaziBitch

[Embedded content]


against popcorn?

He can try it, but as I’ve stated repeatedly I don’t think it’ll work.

What really annoys me out of Florida today is this:

Firefighter Leaves Confederate-Flag Ax at Black Man’s Burning House

Sick burn, dude.

The son of Orange County, Florida’s assistant fire chief has been suspended from the fire department for 12 hours without pay after admitting that he painted a big ol’ Confederate battle flag on his work ax, which was found at the home of an African-American man who’d called authorities for help with a house fire.

The rebel hatchet’s existence came out as part of an investigation by the county fire chief into “a culture of entitlement at his busiest fire station,” according to Orlando’s WFTV (video’s below):

The report claims a black man who lived at the home that was burning was already upset about the fire at his home, so when a fire department lieutenant saw the ax with the flag painted on it, he told a supervisor about it and took it away before the homeowner saw it.

A few days later, the son of Assistant Fire Chief Jeff Holton admitted he had painted the flag on the ax.

Holton told investigators he did it to “touch up” the ax at Station 42 and said to him it signified his small town roots and core values of family and hard work.

He denied being racist or intending to offend anyone.

Image: ku-xlarge.jpg

181 BeenHereAwhile  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 4:56:45pm

re: #88 Dark_Falcon

To be fair, lots of families in western states like New Mexico own shotguns and a good number of kids there learn to shoot by age 12.

Under my father’s supervison I was shooting a 410 at 10 years old.

Father, older brother & myself would go to what were called “turkey shoots.”

No turkeys were shot, it was just an excuse for folk to get together in a field and shoot at targets with shotguns.

Some one would win a turkey to take home.

182 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 4:59:10pm

re: #180 Dark_Falcon

He can try it, but as I’ve stated repeatedly I don’t think it’ll work.

What really annoys me out of Florida today is this:

Firefighter Leaves Confederate-Flag Ax at Black Man’s Burning House

Image: ku-xlarge.jpg

Just tweeted that.

There are no words —I’ll just SCCCCCCCRRRRRRRREEEEEEEAAAAAAAMMMM!

183 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:01:28pm
184 RealityBasedSteve  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:01:32pm

re: #175 Backwoods_Sleuth

well, if they have penis pumps, they don’t need any of those pesky wimmins feminizing their atmospheres…

Youtube Video

185 dog philosopher  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:01:53pm

devices should not be designed to be turned on and off by having the power plug put in and pulled out

it is teh funky

186 klys  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:02:20pm

re: #183 FemNaziBitch

Hey, at least he hired a woman instead of leaving her in the binder.

//

187 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:02:56pm

re: #182 FemNaziBitch

Just tweeted that.

There are no words —I’ll just SCCCCCCCRRRRRRRREEEEEEEAAAAAAAMMMM!

I got words to answer that one:

Youtube Video

188 The Ghost of a Flea  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:05:15pm

India’s per capita income is $1,219, and its PPP $3,608.

At $2k (1.22 lakh rupees) a pop, the revolver is a pretty big-ticket item. It’s half the price of a cheap Maruti automobile (2.13 lakh rupees),

189 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:05:59pm
190 RealityBasedSteve  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:06:09pm

re: #185 dog philosopher

devices should not be designed to be turned on and off by having the power plug put in and pulled out

it is teh funky

The only thing I have that meets that description are various and assorted chargers. What’s the device that’s causing you grief?

RBS

191 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:07:57pm

re: #185 dog philosopher

devices should not be designed to be turned on and off by having the power plug put in and pulled out

it is teh funky

IS THAT not the action of power switches essentially?

Take a step of the process in production, save millions?

192 dog philosopher  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:08:30pm

re: #190 RealityBasedSteve

The only thing I have that meets that description are various and assorted chargers. What’s the device that’s causing you grief?

RBS

some rather specialized devices here at work that serve up rf information

193 dog philosopher  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:09:11pm

re: #191 FemNaziBitch

IS THAT not the action of power switches essentially?

Take a step of the process in production, save millions?

you would think a power switch could be designed in

194 EPR-radar  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:09:42pm

re: #189 FemNaziBitch

There’s been a lot of progress in the last few thousand years — conservatives have been against all of it.

195 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:10:30pm

re: #193 dog philosopher

you would think a power switch could be designed in

it would raise the price …

196 EPR-radar  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:11:02pm

re: #185 dog philosopher

devices should not be designed to be turned on and off by having the power plug put in and pulled out

it is teh funky

A power strip with a switch might be worth considering.

197 ObserverArt  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:11:15pm

re: #70 Dark_Falcon

It’s THAT kind of classic song.

I’m going to be one the people that hates it. To me it is an overwrought, exaggerated piece of Freddie going out of control.

Please don’t hate me. That song and album was a signal to me that the raw tough band that did their first two or three albums were gone. it happens.

But I would never say it wasn’t wildly popular. Far from it. I don’t judge tunes on popularity, but sometimes hearing such a tune over and over for so damn long makes it even more hard to take.

Any others out there that really do not like it?

And oh yeah…never liked Stairway to Heaven either for much the same reasons…and ‘Zep was one of my favorite bands up to that time too!

198 Political Atheist  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:11:16pm

re: #125 kirkspencer

When you look at the NFA guns, it’s obvious these rarely are in crimes. Guns with a bore larger than .50 cal etc,Obvious because we have so many sources about how pistols are the most common gun in a murder.
Wiki

Destructive Devices (DDs)—there are two broad classes of destructive devices:
Devices such as grenades, bombs, explosive missiles, poison gas weapons, etc.
Any firearm with a bore over 0.50 inch except for shotguns or shotgun shells which have been found to be generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting purposes. (Many firearms with bores over 0.50” inch, such as 12-gauge shotguns, are exempted from the law because they have been determined to have a “legitimate sporting use”.)
Any Other Weapons (AOWs)—this is a broad “catch-all” category used to regulate any number of firearms which the BATFE under the NFA enforces registration and taxation. Examples include, among others:
1) Smooth-bore pistols 2) Pen guns and cane guns 3) A firearm with combinations smooth bore and rifle barrels 12 inches or more but less than 18 inches in length from which only a single shot can be made from either barrel. 4) Disguised firearms 5) Firearms that can be fired from within a wallet holster or a briefcase 6) A short-barreled shotgun which came from the factory with a pistol grip and no buttstock is categorized as an AOW (smooth-bore pistol) rather than a Short Barrel Shotgun (SBS), because the Gun Control Act describes a shotgun as, “…designed or redesigned to be fired from the shoulder…” 7) Handguns with a forward vertical grip.

199 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:12:15pm

re: #132 Dark_Falcon

I’ll try to find the source. I’ve seen that factoid several times, though, and I will also say that I know of no school or mass shooting in my lifetime that used an NFA-registered firearm and I do keep track of the weapons used in these crimes.

I should point out that what I said applies to NFA-registered short barreled rifles and shotguns and automatic weapons. NFA-registered sound suppressors have on rare occasions been used for unlawful ends.

The statistic I’ve always seen is limited to machineguns and usually presented on highly biased pro firearms sites like this: guncite.com

I have no reason to argue with it though, since logic says it’s almost certainly spot on. The legally registered machinegun thing is obvious, since the last of those were legally entered into the registry in 1986 and they’re all worth many thousands of dollars now. We also know from California and other city, state and federal firearms reporting that the problem in about 86% of all levels of firearms crime is handguns, that are a mixture of legally owned, stolen, or purchased in straw sales.

I don’t get the appeal of SBSs beyond the purely visceral, childish level. A sawed off shotgun might be kind of fun to have on the trail for snakes, if snakes were actually a threat. I have a 20 gauge howdah pistol that’s a lot of fun, but as a muzzle stuffer its criminal potential is pretty iffy. I don’t get SBRs at all, they just look wrong and serve little if any legit purpose that I can see. AOWs are usually a solution looking for a problem, AR & smoothbore pistols, don’t want / don’t need.

What’s weird is that some countries with very stringent gun control laws don’t regulate silencers at all. Sweden, France, and New Zealand don’t consider them anything more than an accessory, zero regulation. Their use is considered a common courtesy.

200 EPR-radar  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:12:34pm

re: #197 ObserverArt

I’m a total philistine, I suppose. I’m very fond of Stairway to Heaven, but the other Zeppelin songs I’ve heard don’t do much for me.

201 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:13:26pm

re: #200 EPR-radar

I’m a total philistine, I suppose. I’m very fond of Stairway to Heaven, but the other Zeppelin songs I’ve heard don’t do much for me.

Led Zeppelin has grown on me over the years.

202 freetoken  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:13:41pm

re: #198 Political Atheist

Any firearm with a bore over 0.50 inch except for shotguns or shotgun shells which have been found to be generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting purposes.

Especially useful against those pirate bears.

203 Dr Lizardo  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:13:44pm

re: #197 ObserverArt

I’m going to be one the people that hates it. To me it is an overwrought, exaggerated piece of Freddie going out of control.

Please don’t hate me. That song and album was a signal to me that the raw tough band that did their first two or three albums were gone. it happens.

But I would never say it wasn’t wildly popular. Far from it. I don’t judge tunes on popularity, but sometimes hearing such a tune over and over for so damn long makes it even more hard to take.

Any others out there that really do not like it?

And oh yeah…never liked Stairway to Heaven either for much the same reasons…and ‘Zep was one of my favorite bands up to that time too!

I liked “Bohemian Rhapsody”, but my two favorite Queen songs are “Fat Bottomed Girls” and “The Hero”.

Youtube Video

Youtube Video

204 Justanotherhuman  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:14:37pm

U.S. judge rules against government in no-fly challenge

reuters.com

“U.S. District Judge William Alsup in San Francisco ruled on a lawsuit brought by Rahinah Ibrahim, a Malaysian citizen. The U.S. no-fly policy excludes individuals from commercial air travel if they are suspected of having ties to terrorism, but critics say it is practically impossible to be removed from the list once on it.

(snip)

“Ibrahim attended Stanford University on a student visa, according to court filings. In early 2005, she was detained for two hours at San Francisco’s airport because authorities believed she was on the no-fly list.

“Eventually, she was allowed to travel to Malaysia. However, her U.S. visa was revoked under a legal provision relating to suspected terrorist activities, though she was not told the specific factual basis for that action. She has not been allowed to return to the United States.”

205 EPR-radar  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:17:16pm

re: #204 Justanotherhuman

This looks like good news. The no-fly list has been a clown show for years, and badly needs some tough-minded review.

206 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:18:49pm

re: #190 RealityBasedSteve

The only thing I have that meets that description are various and assorted chargers. What’s the device that’s causing you grief?

RBS

My cable modem for one.

207 piratedan  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:19:26pm

re: #202 freetoken

Especially useful against those pirate bears.

hey now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

208 ObserverArt  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:20:35pm

re: #144 Charles Johnson

XTC - Stupidly Happy

[Embedded content]

Thank You. I loves me some XTC.

209 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:21:23pm

kashmir
Youtube Video

210 RealityBasedSteve  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:22:01pm

re: #196 EPR-radar

A power strip with a switch might be worth considering.

Just go to the mechanical room, flip the circut breaker. If you’re not sure which one, just start flipping all of them.


RBS

211 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:23:22pm

re: #210 RealityBasedSteve

Just go to the mechanical room, flip the circut breaker. If you’re not sure which one, just start flipping all of them.

RBS

After you shut the UPS off?

212 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:23:51pm

Old fashioned books!!! Used in the South Asian region/India. Usually from bamboo. Incredibly resilient.

213 RealityBasedSteve  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:24:17pm

Fat Bottomed Girls by “The Cottontown Chorus”, and English Mens Choir. Maybe the best version ever.
Youtube Video

RBS

214 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:25:18pm

re: #210 RealityBasedSteve

Just go to the mechanical room, flip the circut breaker. If you’re not sure which one, just start flipping all of them.

RBS

Do you often flip-off everything or just everyone?

:0

215 EPR-radar  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:25:57pm

re: #189 FemNaziBitch

How could I have missed the critical improvement in conservative thinking over the last 80 years? The buttons are bigger. This clearly makes all the difference. ///

216 ObserverArt  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:26:24pm

re: #189 FemNaziBitch

Image of three election buttons - Same misinformation, same result. You cant scare us by throwing the word “socialism” around. Nice try #UniteBlue #p2

Proof some things never change.

217 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:27:14pm
218 freetoken  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:27:58pm

Mitt is back, and presenting philosophers with a great paradox:

Mitt Romney speaks about obstacles at Arizona young single adult gathering

[…]

Speaking at a conference for young single adult members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, the former U.S. presidential candidate said that he has never been able to find a formula for worldly success. “There is a great deal of chance, or serendipity, or even luck to success in business, in politics, in science, in academics, in investments, in winning and losing.”

Therefore, the bad news is that if people define their lives by the standards of the world, then their success is something out of their control or something left to chance.

“The good news is that by God’s measure, success is entirely within your control. It is not in any way subject to serendipity or luck or chance. It is up to you alone.”

[…]

So, there is, and simultaneously is not, any role for “luck” in “success”.

Now, perhaps Deseret got the story wrong, but look at just this on claim:

The good news is that by God’s measure, success is entirely within your control.

Try to unpack that one. Either God is measuring out success, or not. But we control that. Ergo, we must control God, or not.

Indeed, later on he even uses the “p” word:

“So a lot of people look back on that [election day] and say, ‘It must have been awful.’” But, he said, “I loved it. It was fabulous. It was a great experience. If you get the chance to run for president, do it.”

The thing that made it wonderful, he said, was that “I met extraordinary people.”

A presidential campaign is an obstacle, he said. “It is a challenge. But it is also a terrific experience.”

That, he said, is the paradox of obstacles. “You pray not to have them. They are frightening. They are daunting. And yet they are some of the best experiences of your life.”

and:

“I think God must be telling us something in the way these paradoxes surprise us — where what we are given is so different from what we expect.

Your philosophy lesson of the day, from Mitt Romney.

219 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:28:33pm

re: #199 goddamnedfrank

Sound suppressors being regulated by the National Firearms Act was actually the National Rifle Association’s doing, believe it or not.

As a result of the high crime in the early years of the Great Depression, the original proposals for the NFA called for the registration of all handguns. The NRA did not want that sort of plan to pass and successfully diverted Congress into passing registration of so-called ‘gangster weapons’, those being automatic weapons, sawed-off shotguns and silencers/sound suppressors (Destructive Devices were added to the NFA later). The NRA pointed to the use of suppressed handguns by some underworld killers to make its case.

In a real sense, the registration of sound suppressors was the result of a successful shout of “Squirrel!” by the NRA.

As an aside, Any other Weapon was created as a category to permit lawful owners of defensive weapons such as Ithaca Gun Co.’s Auto & Burglar Gun to retain those weapons without having to pay the then massive $200 transfer tax. A $5 dollar tax was designed to cover the government’s expenses in registering the gun while not being punitive.

220 dog philosopher  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:28:58pm

re: #196 EPR-radar

A power strip with a switch might be worth considering.

my entire known universe is connected to that power strip

turn it off and time stops

221 freetoken  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:29:57pm

Maybe Mitt meant that “success” is a quantum probability, and that you have to observe it before it collapses into whatever reality state that it is?

222 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:31:02pm
223 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:31:49pm

re: #221 freetoken

Maybe Mitt meant that “success” is a quantum probability, and that you have to observe it before it collapses into whatever reality state that it is?

Or he was just staking out both sides of the issue due to force of habit.
/

224 ObserverArt  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:32:16pm

re: #200 EPR-radar

I’m a total philistine, I suppose. I’m very fond of Stairway to Heaven, but the other Zeppelin songs I’ve heard don’t do much for me.

I understand. Art is art for different reason for different people. I get that. And as far as Zep, I like them, but I like all kinds of things music wise. Over the years though I finally figured out I like honest striped down clean song writing and honest to the point music. Maybe it is an age thing, maybe it is an ear that has heard too much. I’ve listen to my share of over-the-top stuff.

But I never get down on anyone that likes what they like. And, I have learned it is pointless to argue it, they like what they like, just please do not think that everyone has to like what they like. And even that sometimes pisses some off. Shrug. What can you do.

225 dog philosopher  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:32:19pm

re: #217 FemNaziBitch

[Embedded content]

we could return gop rhetoric in the same style by airily proclaiming “the republican party has been an utter failure ever since ronald reagan was elected. it’s time for it to face facts and cease being a doorstop of history”

226 calochortus  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:34:28pm

re: #221 freetoken

Maybe Mitt meant that “success” is a quantum probability, and that you have to observe it before it collapses into whatever reality state that it is?

As good an explanation as any, though I think he’s saying don’t worry if the deck is stacked against you and you don’t get rich. God loves you if you are take whatever the corporation you work for is willing to give you with gratitude and humility. The CEO will think about you as he tools around the country in his private jet.

227 Pie-onist Overlord  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:34:46pm

HURR HURR IF ONLY TEH BLAH PEOPLE WOULD WORK FOR NO PAY, THEY WOULD HAVE 100% EMPLOYMENT!!!!!1!!!!

228 Political Atheist  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:37:22pm

re: #165 FemNaziBitch

Florida Man Who Shot Movie-Texter May Use “Stand Your Ground” Defense gawker.com …

He can claim anything he wants. But the utter lack of a threat of any kind from the victim puts this miles and miles away from SYG. I’m no fan of SYG, but this is a farce.

229 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:38:08pm

re: #219 Dark_Falcon

Sound suppressors being regulated by the National Firearms Act was actually the National Rifle Association’s doing, believe it or not.

As a result of the high crime in the early years of the Great Depression, the original proposals for the NFA called for the registration of all handguns. The NRA did not want that sort of plan to pass and successfully diverted Congress into passing registration of so-called ‘gangster weapons’, those being automatic weapons, sawed-off shotguns and silencers/sound suppressors (Destructive Devices were added to the NFA later). The NRA pointed to the use of suppressed handguns by some underworld killers to make its case.

In a real sense, the registration of sound suppressors was the result of a successful shout of “Squirrel!” by the NRA.

As an aside, Any other Weapon was created as a category to permit lawful owners of defensive weapons such as Ithaca Gun Co.’s Auto & Burglar Gun to retain those weapons without having to pay the then massive $200 transfer tax. A $5 dollar tax was designed to cover the government’s expenses in registering the gun while not being punitive.

I’d heard that too, that suppressors were added at the last minute almost as an afterthought. Prohibition violence was a major scourge, but man did the NRA use it to fuck this country over. We’d be in a much better place right now if instead all handguns had been regulated under the NFA and silencers left alone.

230 ObserverArt  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:38:23pm

Here is A Queen song from their first album. One of my favs of theirs.

By the way, I did see them during the Killer Queen tour. They were still not so big yet and played at the always popular and historic AGORA in Columbus.

Youtube Video

231 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:41:57pm

Muslim U.S. President to team up with gays to make us go extinct just like the gay dinosaurs

: Basic biology. You’re absolutely right. That’s why if you think about it, its logical conclusion would be if it were normal it would be extinct, the human race would be extinct within time if it were normal. So you’re right. Biology says the only we exist as human beings is that a man and a woman come together and we procreate. That’s the reason that government has long recognize marriage is because it is the place in which children are born.

Sounds like he is trying (and failing) to talk in evolutionary biology terms—no?

232 Skip Intro  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:44:18pm

re: #228 Political Atheist

He can claim anything he wants. But the utter lack of a threat of any kind from the victim puts this miles and miles away from SYG. I’m no fan of SYG, but this is a farce.

SYG is a farce. This just shows why.

233 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:44:29pm

re: #229 goddamnedfrank

I’d heard that too, that suppressors were added at the last minute almost as an afterthought. Prohibition violence was a major scourge, but man did the NRA use it to fuck this country over. We’d be in a much better place right now if instead all handguns had been regulated under the NFA and silencers left alone.

The NRA was afraid that registration would both dry up the market for handguns and possibly lead to confiscation. The former, at least, was not an unreasonable concern, though it was a narrow one.

234 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:44:59pm

One good thing that New Zealand does is require any firearms applicant to get sign offs from two different people, one related to them and one that cannot be related to them. Then they also have to pass an interview with a police officer, which I’m assuming has some kind of professional / objective criteria involved. I think that’s smart, it builds in the requirement that one person who is close to and presumably knows the person well, and two others who are objectively distanced from them to put down in writing that they’re okay with the applicant having a rifle.

235 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:46:03pm
236 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:46:13pm

re: #232 Skip Intro

SYG is a farce. This just shows why.

No, it doesn’t. Curtis Reeves Jr. would have been allowed to carry his gun without SYG, he still likely would have asserted self-defense, and his claim would still likely have been rejected.

237 Justanotherhuman  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:46:48pm

Well, I would hope so…

Israel apologises for John Kerry ‘obsession’ comments

bbc.co.uk

“Israeli Defence Minister Moshe Yaalon has apologised for quotes that appeared in a newspaper that lambasted US Secretary of State John Kerry’s role in the Middle East peace process.

“Mr Yaalon was quoted as saying that Mr Kerry was acting out of “misplaced obsession and messianic fervour”.

“The US state department expressed anger at the remarks.”

I’m wondering who had a word with Mr. Yaalon? Shimon Peres?

238 calochortus  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:46:55pm

re: #231 FemNaziBitch

>Muslim U.S. President to team up with gays to make us go extinct just like the gay dinosaurs

Sounds like he is trying (and failing) to talk in evolutionary biology terms—no?

So those who don’t procreate make no other contribution to the lives of others? Maybe letting them procreate better through research, or just providing babysitting or something.
This massive logic fail would only make sense if no one procreated.

239 freetoken  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:49:35pm

Meanwhile, in fly-over country, Repbublican Terry Brandstad of Iowa is sounding downright RINO:

Live Stream of Governor Branstad’s Condition of the State Speech

Freezing state college tuition rates.

Letting veterans automatically get in-state tuition rates.

Raising a tax to implement high-speed internet in under-served areas.

Pushing for the government EPA to mandate more biofuels:

The RFS has led to a cleaner environment [whether or not true, it is one of his sales pitches], opened the markets for Iowa corn and soybeans and reduced our nation’s dependence on foreign oil. Thousands of Americans are coming together to support the RFS.

A Bully-Free act to make sure schools deal with bullying properly.

Trumpeting bipartisanship

Trumpeting the increase in health insurance coverage by the state’s citizens:

The Iowa Health and Wellness Plan is using health risk assessments and physicals to empower Iowans to take ownership of their own health. On top of that, more Iowans are receiving private insurance than ever before.

This btw comes about because there is a huge cooperative created after the ACA which covers most of the medical services in the state, and is one of the better implementations of the ACA.

No wonder Vander Plaats and the wingnuts ran against him.

Here is my belief: the atavism of the wingnuts will collapse back on them as their beliefs are an abrogation of what society needs for good governance. Where the rubber meets the road, or in the case of Iowa, where the harvesters meet the cornstalks, real governance means involving government, raising taxes to fund major projects to help society at large.

The wingnuts have no supportable arguments on governance or economics. That is why in the end they turn to religion to support whatever inane position they propose.

I just don’t want to be caught in the down-draft of the wingnuts’ own idiotic world-view collapse.

240 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:50:22pm
241 Political Atheist  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:51:03pm

re: #229 goddamnedfrank

One of the hard lessons about home defense with a gun is in a typical hallway just a shot or two will mean permanent hearing loss of some degree. Particularly if you choose a simple shotgun or a .40 to .45 caliber handgun. .

242 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:51:40pm

re: #238 calochortus

So those who don’t procreate make no other contribution to the lives of others? Maybe letting them procreate better through research, or just providing babysitting or something.
This massive logic fail would only make sense if no one procreated.

WHACKOS actually think that will happen. Somehow a legal paperwork will change the biology of the human race and no women or men will ever again ache in their hearts to old an infant in their arms.

243 ObserverArt  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:51:42pm

Here is my favorite Zep song. I love the mandolin parts and the overlapping of Plant’s voice, etc. There is a traditional aspect to it that really hits me. And it is not all about their power, but shows their talents in a way that many never respected Zep for.

Youtube Video

And yes…I’m adding tunes to help beat back some of my depression about gun talk. The clinic on guns around here sometimes gives me the willies. More talk about their performance it seems to me than about the victims at the other end of the barrel. Maybe we should all talk about the little girl without a father and the trauma of all the people that had to witness it.

And then today comes news about another school shooting. But hey, guns!

And yes, I shot a 22 Colt 8-round pistol as a kid, hunted with my dad and brother and shot a 12 gauge pump shot gun probably at 12.

And I live in what is considered by some a high crime mixed old neighborhood and I do not have a gun. Somehow I’ve gotten by. I dunno, it all creeps me out anymore. Sorry.

244 Stanley Sea  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:54:12pm

re: #228 Political Atheist

He can claim anything he wants. But the utter lack of a threat of any kind from the victim puts this miles and miles away from SYG. I’m no fan of SYG, but this is a farce.

This case is conjuring up Trayvon feelings.

If not for the lies GZ told and got rich off of, this case is the same. Crazy angry person with gun (someone said he had a history of being pissed at people in the theater?) Pissed off, those punks/texters get off every time.

Man dead.

245 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:54:33pm

undulating clouds —

I want this on my ceiling.

246 Skip Intro  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:54:55pm

You know, I still haven’t been able to get past that creepy Jerry Lewis comic cover way, way up top.

And people thought Zap comics were sick.

247 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:55:01pm

248 dog philosopher  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:56:03pm

re: #237 Justanotherhuman

“Mr Yaalon was quoted as saying that Mr Kerry was acting out of “misplaced obsession and messianic fervour”

this is nothing more than a cocktail party witticism

249 Political Atheist  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:56:16pm

re: #243 ObserverArt

I hope I have not commented in any way to make your day any worse. I’m always saddened by lethal violence like that. The youth of the victims just amplifies the tragedy and loss.

250 calochortus  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:56:59pm

re: #242 FemNaziBitch

WHACKOS actually think that will happen. Somehow a legal paperwork will change the biology of the human race and no women or men will ever again ache in their hearts to old an infant in their arms.

Yeah, that would be news to gay and lesbian parents everywhere.

I keep wondering what kind of family backgrounds these nuts have. Women need to be forced into marriage. We’ll run out of kids if there is birth control. If we don’t abuse gays, everyone will want gay sex.
Really? Really?

251 Pie-onist Overlord  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:58:02pm

If Ben was my kid I would pound his ass.

252 dog philosopher  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:58:10pm

While most of the software is inserted by gaining access to computer networks, the N.S.A. has increasingly made use of a secret technology that enables it to enter and alter data in computers even if they are not connected to the Internet, according to N.S.A. documents, computer experts and American officials. The technology, which has been used by the agency since at least 2008, relies on a covert channel of radio waves that can be transmitted from tiny circuit boards and USB cards inserted surreptitiously into the computers. In some cases, they are sent to a briefcase-size relay station that intelligence agencies can set up miles away from the target

nytimes.com

253 Backwoods_Sleuth  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:58:42pm

This is true in my house…

Don’t hate me.

254 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:58:52pm

REALLY?

255 freetoken  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 5:59:22pm

re: #252 dog philosopher

You’re telling me, it is finally time to don the tinfoil?

256 calochortus  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:00:04pm

BBL. Dinner calls…

257 Kragar  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:00:25pm
258 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:01:01pm

re: #241 Political Atheist

One of the hard lessons about home defense with a gun is in a typical hallway just a shot or two will mean permanent hearing loss of some degree. Particularly if you choose a simple shotgun or a .40 to .45 caliber handgun. .

Still beats getting a crowbar to the head.

259 ObserverArt  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:01:01pm

re: #249 Political Atheist

I hope I have not commented in any way to make your day any worse. I’m always saddened by lethal violence like that. The youth of the victims just amplifies the tragedy and loss.

No one person in general. It’s just the overall tone to the whole gun thing in America anymore. It is reflected here for sure.

Maybe it is what some call the gun culture, I don’t know if I would ever want the two words associated. Gun and culture, Think about it. Shiver. Really, we do that to our language?

It’s getting to me, the tragedy on human life and so many times for what? I think it all makes this country less…and less as it goes on more…and more. But hey…guns!

260 aagcobb  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:01:29pm

re: #251 Pie-onist Overlord

If Ben was my kid I would pound his ass.

[Embedded content]

He’s an idiot. sign-ups by young people for Obamacare is running ahead of the pace at which young people signed up for Romneycare. They just procrastinate. Though, since Obamacare is actually 50 separate markets, there could be some small, rural states which skew old where the ration of young people is abit smaller than it should be, not that that will be the end of the world or anything.

262 aagcobb  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:02:58pm

re: #259 ObserverArt

No one person in general. It’s just the overall tone to the whole gun thing in America anymore. It is reflected here for sure.

Maybe it is what some call the gun culture, I don’t know if I would ever want the two words associated. Gun and culture, Think about it. Shiver. Really, we do that to our language?

It’s getting to me, the tragedy on human life and so many times for what? I think it all makes this country less…and less as it goes on more…and more. But hey…guns!

If its any consolation, despite all the rhetoric, violent crime rates have been dropping to historic lows.

263 ObserverArt  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:03:03pm

re: #258 Dark_Falcon

Still beats getting a crowbar to the head.

Dark don’t take it wrong, but I have to ask. How many times have you really been threatened with a crow bar?

And yes, I now I have no way to judge your honesty, etc, but I thought I throw it out there. Thanks for your answer and I would understand if you didn’t.

264 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:04:25pm

re: #263 ObserverArt

Dark don’t take it wrong, but I have to ask. How many times have you really been threatened with a crow bar?

And yes, I now I have no way to judge your honesty, etc, but I thought I throw it out there. Thanks for your answer and I would understand if you didn’t.

It’s never happened to me. But just because it hasn’t happened to me, doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen.

265 ObserverArt  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:04:51pm

re: #262 aagcobb

If its any consolation, despite all the rhetoric, violent crime rates have been dropping to historic lows.

And that makes me even more confused. If they are going down, why are gun purchases going up and why are violent multiple casualty gun death incidents going up?

I just do not get it. Think about that stat. (I know you are…)

266 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:05:36pm

re: #265 ObserverArt

And that makes me even more confused. If they are going down, why are gun purchases going up and why are violent multiple casualty gun death incidents going up?

I just do not get it. Think about that stat. (I know you are…)

False
Evidence
Appearing
Real

267 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:06:34pm

268 ObserverArt  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:07:55pm

re: #264 Dark_Falcon

It’s never happened to me. But just because it hasn’t happened to me, doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen.

Appreciated. I would wager that where I grew up in northern Ohio (across the damn tracks) and where I have lived while going to art college and ended up liking these old homes in Columbus probably makes me more a target for such a thing and yet I feel no need for a gun and luckily haven’t had the need. Is it fear alone that drives you Dark? With you love of the machine aspect I’m thinking there is way more to it.

269 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:08:03pm

re: #265 ObserverArt

And that makes me even more confused. If they are going down, why are gun purchases going up and why are violent multiple casualty gun death incidents going up?

I just do not get it. Think about that stat. (I know you are…)

Gun purchases have leveled off. Last year they skyrocketed because of a fear of additional laws due to the Newtown Massacre and Barack Obama being president.

270 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:08:47pm
271 aagcobb  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:09:51pm

re: #265 ObserverArt

And that makes me even more confused. If they are going down, why are gun purchases going up and why are violent multiple casualty gun death incidents going up?

I just do not get it. Think about that stat. (I know you are…)

Multiple casualty gun incidents get a lot of attention when they occur, but they are actually very rare. Remember the US is an extremely large country.

272 Political Atheist  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:10:41pm

re: #263 ObserverArt

Dark don’t take it wrong, but I have to ask. How many times have you really been threatened with a crow bar?

And yes, I now I have no way to judge your honesty, etc, but I thought I throw it out there. Thanks for your answer and I would understand if you didn’t.

We know that violent criminal assault happens a lot. Most often against people utterly unarmed and more. Not just no gun, but no police in time, no way to escape or fight their way out. I find that just as tragic. Obviously it’s complicated especially in public. I lost a distant relative to outright pointless murder. Nice old guy, Had this little jewelry store. Long story short, they robbed a cooperative victim then knocked him out with a sap and then slit his throat. Never mind the gun, where was the law? Or any sense of decency to just let the poor old man live? Sister in laws dad. He was utterly helpless.

273 Justanotherhuman  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:11:20pm

re: #270 FemNaziBitch

[Embedded content]

Ban guns, not books.

274 ObserverArt  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:11:58pm

re: #266 FemNaziBitch

False
Evidence
Appearing
Real

Not enough updings from this person…

And you know what scares me about that. The fear makes one go out buy a gun and then the real facts come to play. Domestic, friend and acquaintance violence over stupid shit. No crime or criminal involved until one uses a gun and becomes one. And I get the feeling there is way, way more of that than crime driven needs to shoot someone.

That’s it for me…depression talking about it setting in. Got to plug my guitar in and jam a bit. Its better’n any old cold blue steel.

275 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:12:00pm

re: #271 aagcobb

Multiple casualty gun incidents get a lot of attention when they occur, but they are actually very rare. Remember the US is an extremely large country.

Sort of like an airliner crash killing 60-100 gets a lot of attention while the constant run of 1-2 killed in auto crashes is just a statistic and small blurb in the local paper.

276 freetoken  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:12:27pm

I’ll never don a tinfoil hat.

Or an aluminum one either.

However, you can get some very flexible 30 gauge dead soft sterling silver sheet for around $25/oz:
riogrande.com

It’d take about $150 worth of it to form a fine hat, fashion-forward at any Ron Paul event.

277 Backwoods_Sleuth  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:14:46pm

re: #276 freetoken

I’ll never don a tinfoil hat.

Or an aluminum one either.

However, you can get some very flexible 30 gauge dead soft sterling silver sheet for around $25/oz:
riogrande.com

It’d take about $150 worth of it to form a fine hat, fashion-forward at any Ron Paul event.

Or you could wear…. ACTION PANTS!

278 Stanley Sea  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:17:04pm

re: #272 Political Atheist

We know that violent criminal assault happens a lot. Most often against people utterly unarmed and more. Not just no gun, but no police in time, no way to escape or fight their way out. I find that just as tragic. Obviously it’s complicated especially in public. I lost a distant relative to outright pointless murder. Nice old guy, Had this little jewelry store. Long story short, they robbed a cooperative victim then knocked him out with a sap and then slit his throat. Never mind the gun, where was the law? Or any sense of decency to just let the poor old man live? Sister in laws dad. He was utterly helpless.

And I, bless my heart have had none of this. Not even to a distant relative.

Suicide, yeah. Drug abuse yeah, but violent crime? No.

I do think there is a business in fear. I don’t trust the numbers, but I see the fear every day.

279 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:18:16pm

re: #268 ObserverArt

Appreciated. I would wager that where I grew up in northern Ohio (across the damn tracks) and where I have lived while going to art college and ended up liking these old homes in Columbus probably makes me more a target for such a thing and yet I feel no need for a gun and luckily haven’t had the need. Is it fear alone that drives you Dark? With you love of the machine aspect I’m thinking there is way more to it.

I’ve just been talking about self-defense. I don’t actually own a gun. I’m a tech head by nature, and I also like to ‘game out’ the uses for a weapon.

If I do ever buy a gun it’ll be a rifle of some type, most likely just a bolt action. I’ve got no interest in owning a handgun at present and likely ever, and I’d never carry one concealed. Firing a gun in self-defense has too many things that could go wrong for my piece of mind and frankly I’d rather be killed than risk going to prison (which I see as a fate worse than death).

280 Stanley Sea  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:18:24pm

re: #278 Stanley Sea

And I, bless my heart have had none of this. Not even to a distant relative.

Suicide, yeah. Drug abuse yeah, but violent crime? No.

I do think there is a business in fear. I don’t trust the numbers, but I see the fear every day.

Woman I work with is freaking out, and I mean freaking about Target.

281 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:18:56pm
282 RealityBasedSteve  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:20:27pm

re: #276 freetoken

I’ll never don a tinfoil hat.

Or an aluminum one either.

However, you can get some very flexible 30 gauge dead soft sterling silver sheet for around $25/oz:
riogrande.com

It’d take about $150 worth of it to form a fine hat, fashion-forward at any Ron Paul event.

I’ve gone ahead and bookmarked that site. I can see using some silver for inlays on some pens. Have a guy that wants one out of Mahogany and Ebony, and that would be great to do a separation and contrast between the segments.

RBS

283 Uncle Obdicut  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:20:35pm

re: #272 Political Atheist

We know that violent criminal assault happens a lot.

It’s a rate of about 18.4 per thousand. Most of those, you know the other person intimately.

Is that ‘a lot’? What would be ‘not a lot’? Our rate of violent assault is way down over the past twenty years.

284 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:20:52pm

re: #273 Justanotherhuman

Ban guns, not books.

Well its difficult, nearly impossible to ban either.

That statistic floored me.

285 EPR-radar  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:21:17pm

re: #281 FemNaziBitch

Dear Mary Fallin,

That wonderful law that was passed by the good people of OK with 75 percent support was found to be without rational basis by the court.

Please provide a rational argument in favor of marriage inequality or FOAD.

No love.

286 Political Atheist  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:22:03pm

re: #280 Stanley Sea

We got hit, but of course no real costs to us. Bad guys got $300 or so.

287 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:22:12pm

re: #279 Dark_Falcon

I’ve just been talking about self-defense. I don’t actually own a gun. I’m a tech head by nature, and I also like to ‘game out’ the uses for a weapon.

If I do ever buy a gun it’ll be a rifle of some type, most likely just a bolt action. I’ve got no interest in owning a handgun at present and likely ever, and I’d never carry one concealed. Firing a gun in self-defense has too many things that could go wrong for my piece of mind and frankly I‘d rather be killed than risk going to prison (which I see as a fate worse than death).

Wait until you become a parent.

288 RealityBasedSteve  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:22:29pm

re: #277 Backwoods_Sleuth

Or you could wear…. ACTION PANTS!

Not the ACTION PANTS!!!!

289 freetoken  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:23:10pm

re: #282 RealityBasedSteve

The Argentium alloy (which has a little bit of germanium in the alloy) holds up against tarnishing and is whiter than other silver alloys. It is a bit more brittle, though.

290 Backwoods_Sleuth  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:23:39pm

re: #281 FemNaziBitch

[Embedded content]

291 Backwoods_Sleuth  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:24:25pm

re: #288 RealityBasedSteve

Not the ACTION PANTS!!!!

I am going to be laughing about ACTION PANTS!!! for the rest of my life.

292 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:24:30pm

kitteh! beebee!

293 EPR-radar  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:26:04pm

re: #290 Backwoods_Sleuth

These marriage decisions have a strong flavor of lawyers smacking down arguments by non-lawyers that are ‘not even wrong’ by legal standards.

Since NOM et al. are incapable of making rational arguments for their position, they are on a consistent losing streak.

294 Political Atheist  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:26:05pm

re: #283 Uncle Obdicut

It’s a rate of about 18.4 per thousand. Most of those, you know the other person intimately.

Is that ‘a lot’? What would be ‘not a lot’? Our rate of violent assault is way down over the past twenty years.

It happens enough for me to consider it a lot. That trickle of dead via gang violence for instance. I was looking up a bunch of numbers in search of that police gun misuse stat. Look through the VPC stats. Yeah, it’s still a lot. Way too high. No luck on a retired police breakdown of incidents. Did find the federal law that says retired cops in good standing get to carry. No state law may intercede.

295 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:26:13pm

re: #287 FemNaziBitch

Wait until you become a parent.

That won’t happen, so it’s not something I think about.

296 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:27:34pm

297 RealityBasedSteve  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:27:34pm

re: #289 freetoken

The Argentium alloy (which has a little bit of germanium in the alloy) holds up against tarnishing and is whiter than other silver alloys. It is a bit more brittle, though.

Well, it would be totally encased inside what is basically an acrylic shell (think heavy lacquer). The brittle part wouldn’t bother me, any curves would be in 4 inch range or so. The whiter might be good, I’m planning on doing it with hardware that is a Platinum and Black Titanium blend.

Thing I love about LGF, we have expert level knowledge on a wide variety of subject matters.

RBS

298 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:28:48pm

re: #289 freetoken

The Argentium alloy (which has a little bit of germanium in the alloy) holds up against tarnishing and is whiter than other silver alloys. It is a bit more brittle, though.

Don’t use that alloy, Steve! Prolonged contact with Argentium can cause Peronism!

///

299 Belafon  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:29:33pm

re: #295 Dark_Falcon

That won’t happen, so it’s not something I think about.

Modern conservatives right there.

300 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:29:47pm


They made a movie about Pompeii?

301 darthstar  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:30:05pm

re: #298 Dark_Falcon

Hey…I think I found the girl of your dreams.

302 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:30:25pm

re: #295 Dark_Falcon

That won’t happen, so it’s not something I think about.

famous last words

303 freetoken  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:30:52pm

re: #297 RealityBasedSteve

I like the Argentium because I hate to “raise the fine silver” in applications that call for sterling. The germanium allow thus makes casting or melting projects much less labor intensive.

Argentium is definitely whiter than other allows. It’s about as neutral of a white you’re going to find in off-the-shelf metals for jewelry. The platinum alloys might seem a bit non-white compared to Argentium, especially if the platinum is allowed with iridium.

304 freetoken  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:31:30pm

pimf “alloy” not “allow”

305 RealityBasedSteve  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:33:10pm

Really Netflix… How is Black Snake Moan IN ANY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM similar to Top Gear (UK)?

Just like Top Gear

This came up in my recommendations the other night. Still trying to figure out any connection.

RBS

306 sagehen  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:33:24pm

re: #260 aagcobb

He’s an idiot. sign-ups by young people for Obamacare is running ahead of the pace at which young people signed up for Romneycare. They just procrastinate. Though, since Obamacare is actually 50 separate markets, there could be some small, rural states which skew old where the ration of young people is abit smaller than it should be, not that that will be the end of the world or anything.

The 18-34’s seem to be signing up slow because the 18-26’s are still on their parents’ policies and have no reason to buy their own. Yet.

307 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:35:22pm

re: #299 Belafon

Modern conservatives right there.

Well, given that my views on the topics I’ve been discussing are intended only for me personally, I feel just fine with them. Unlike other people, I don’t believe they have broad application.

308 RealityBasedSteve  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:36:41pm

re: #303 freetoken

I like the Argentium because I hate to “raise the fine silver” in applications that call for sterling. The germanium allow thus makes casting or melting projects much less labor intensive.

Argentium is definitely whiter than other allows. It’s about as neutral of a white you’re going to find in off-the-shelf metals for jewelry. The platinum alloys might seem a bit non-white compared to Argentium, especially if the platinum is allowed with iridium.

One thing, since I’m going to be turning this with wood working tools, (probably a carbide cutter), does it machine well? I know that silver has a good track record in our community because it works well.

Well minor color differences isn’t a problem. The inlay would be a very narrow strip between 2 dark woods. The platnium peices would have a little bit of seperation so that would be fine.

RBS

309 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:37:11pm

That thaw in Alaska is the heat coming off Stonekettle Station. Nice “travel hell” post.
stonekettle.com

310 EPR-radar  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:37:31pm

re: #299 Belafon

Modern conservatives right there.

Somewhat unfair. If someone thinks that their being a parent is unthinkable, this has no wider implications.

Putting AGW into the unthinkable category is rather different…

311 Political Atheist  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:37:41pm

re: #283 Uncle Obdicut

It’s a rate of about 18.4 per thousand. Most of those, you know the other person intimately.

Is that ‘a lot’? What would be ‘not a lot’? Our rate of violent assault is way down over the past twenty years.

To be a bit more specific-

They poison our streets with drugs, violence, and all manner of crime.
Some 33,000 violent street gangs, motorcycle gangs, and prison gangs with about 1.4 million members are criminally active in the U.S. today. Many are sophisticated and well organized; all use violence to control neighborhoods and boost their illegal money-making activities, which include robbery, drug and gun trafficking, fraud, extortion, and prostitution rings. According to the 2011 National Gang Threat Assessment report, gangs are responsible for an average of 48 percent of violent crime in most jurisdictions, and up to 90 percent in others. We’re redoubling our efforts to disrupt and dismantle gangs through intelligence-driven investigations and new initiatives and partnerships.

Yeah that’s a lot. Did you notice gun accident rates have been going down as well?

During the last decade, the number of
unintentional firearm-related fatalities
involving children 14 years of age and
under has decreased by 28 percent and
by 74 percent over the last 20 years.

Which of course makes the shootings that have happened no less tragic. Not one bit.

312 freetoken  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:38:28pm

There have been a couple of papers this week about the diversity of existing human Y chromosomes versus the diversity of mitochondria DNA that are really interesting:

Natural Selection Reduced Diversity on Human Y Chromosomes

Human paternal and maternal demographic histories: insights from high-resolution Y chromosome and mtDNA sequences

Lot’s of implications for human evolution over the past couple of hundred thousand years.

But one application we can make of them today is about this asinine claim that allowing same-sex marriage will lead to the disappearance of humans.

The papers above demonstrate that there are fewer males in the breeding population that women, in our past. IOW, there is an excess of males needed to push the human species forward.

From an ecological point of view, we have more than enough (and probably too many) humans around today needed to keep the species going. But from a genetics viewpoint, it appears as if there is considerable selection that has gone on in the past, on which males pass down their DNA.

So, there is really no problem, from an evolutionary point of view, for a few percentage of males to not be in heterosexual unions.

313 dog philosopher  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:41:28pm

One, called Cottonmouth I, looks like a normal USB plug but has a tiny transceiver buried in it. According to the catalog, it transmits information swept from the computer “through a covert channel” that allows “data infiltration and exfiltration.” Another variant of the technology involves tiny circuit boards that can be inserted in a laptop computer — either in the field or when they are shipped from manufacturers — so that the computer is broadcasting to the N.S.A. even while the computer’s user enjoys the false confidence that being walled off from the Internet constitutes real protection.

The relay station it communicates with, called Nightstand, fits in an oversize briefcase, and the system can attack a computer “from as far away as eight miles under ideal environmental conditions.” It can also insert packets of data in milliseconds, meaning that a false message or piece of programming can outrace a real one to a target computer. Similar stations create a link between the target computers and the N.S.A., even if the machines are isolated from the Internet.

Computers are not the only targets. Dropoutjeep attacks iPhones. Other hardware and software are designed to infect large network servers, including those made by the Chinese.

314 Political Atheist  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:42:25pm

May we review? Gang violence is 49 to 90 percent of the problem. Take their guns away and you make great progress, bounce them back to clubs and knives and improvised weapons.
Take away the gangs and you have a neighborhood or two with some legal gun ownership and 90% less violence.

315 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:42:57pm

re: #313 dog philosopher

One, called Cottonmouth I, looks like a normal USB plug but has a tiny transceiver buried in it. According to the catalog, it transmits information swept from the computer “through a covert channel” that allows “data infiltration and exfiltration.” Another variant of the technology involves tiny circuit boards that can be inserted in a laptop computer — either in the field or when they are shipped from manufacturers — so that the computer is broadcasting to the N.S.A. even while the computer’s user enjoys the false confidence that being walled off from the Internet constitutes real protection.

The relay station it communicates with, called Nightstand, fits in an oversize briefcase, and the system can attack a computer “from as far away as eight miles under ideal environmental conditions.” It can also insert packets of data in milliseconds, meaning that a false message or piece of programming can outrace a real one to a target computer. Similar stations create a link between the target computers and the N.S.A., even if the machines are isolated from the Internet.

Computers are not the only targets. Dropoutjeep attacks iPhones. Other hardware and software are designed to infect large network servers, including those made by the Chinese.

Link, please?

316 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:43:59pm

Look at this picture —photo lights reflected in kitty eyes.

Very kewl!

Now, I am actually going to read the article …

317 RealityBasedSteve  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:44:23pm

re: #313 dog philosopher

One, called Cottonmouth I, looks like a normal USB plug but has a tiny transceiver buried in it. According to the catalog, it transmits information swept from the computer “through a covert channel” that allows “data infiltration and exfiltration.” Another variant of the technology involves tiny circuit boards that can be inserted in a laptop computer — either in the field or when they are shipped from manufacturers — so that the computer is broadcasting to the N.S.A. even while the computer’s user enjoys the false confidence that being walled off from the Internet constitutes real protection.

The relay station it communicates with, called Nightstand, fits in an oversize briefcase, and the system can attack a computer “from as far away as eight miles under ideal environmental conditions.” It can also insert packets of data in milliseconds, meaning that a false message or piece of programming can outrace a real one to a target computer. Similar stations create a link between the target computers and the N.S.A., even if the machines are isolated from the Internet.

Computers are not the only targets. Dropoutjeep attacks iPhones. Other hardware and software are designed to infect large network servers, including those made by the Chinese.

And I would be willing to make a wager that the Russians are not significantly behind in the technology. Probably not there, but probably not too far off the mark.

RBS

318 Political Atheist  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:45:07pm

re: #316 FemNaziBitch

Look at this picture —photo lights reflected in kitty eyes.

Very kewl!

Now, I am actually going to read the article …

Maine Coon Kitty! My fave breed.

319 Belafon  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:45:21pm

re: #307 Dark_Falcon

re: #310 EPR-radar

Yeah, I misinterpreted the context of your statement. I was speaking more to the general “it’ll never happen to me, so I’m not going to think about it,” which, while true in this case, is not exactly in the “I’ll never get cancer” realm.

My bad.

320 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:45:30pm

re: #316 FemNaziBitch

Look at this picture —photo lights reflected in kitty eyes.

Very kewl!

Now, I am actually going to read the article …

article is about findings that confirm we are emotional animals that think.

321 freetoken  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:45:48pm

re: #308 RealityBasedSteve

One thing, since I’m going to be turning this with wood working tools, (probably a carbide cutter), does it machine well?

I’ve never machined it, so I can’t tell you.

Working it cold, it’s similar to regular sterling. It does work harden like sterling, so you need to anneal it after working with it a while.

Also note - I’ve discovered thin pieces of silver can become quite “springy” as you work them, which means you have to anneal them often, which you may or may not be able to do. One thing to be more careful of about the germanium silver alloys versus regular sterling is that they are more brittle when hot, so quenching a hot piece of Argentium can lead to cracking. Pure silver is brittle also when hot, but the germanium alloys even more so. Thus you have to plan accordingly, about working and annealing and such.

Still, since I’m not overly fond of silver (for looks), but for my choices the germanium alloy just has worked better and I prefer its color.

322 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:46:21pm

re: #319 Belafon

Yeah, I misinterpreted the context of your statement. I was speaking more to the general “it’ll never happen to me, so I’m not going to think about it,” which, while true in this case, is not exactly in the “I’ll never get cancer” realm.

My bad.

Apology Accepted.

323 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:46:25pm

re: #314 Political Atheist

May we review? Gang violence is 49 to 90 percent of the problem. Take their guns away and you make great progress, bounce them back to clubs and knives and improvised weapons.
Take away the gangs and you have a neighborhood or two with some legal gun ownership and 90% less violence.

So, why aren’t these guys prosecuted under existing gun laws?

324 Stanley Sea  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:46:34pm

re: #301 darthstar

Hey…I think I found the girl of your dreams.

[Embedded content]

ha HA

325 goddamnedfrank  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:46:52pm

re: #301 darthstar

Hey…I think I found the girl of your dreams.

[Embedded content]

Creepiest tramp stamp ever.

326 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:47:02pm

re: #323 FemNaziBitch

So, why aren’t these guys prosecuted under existing gun laws?

War on Drugs not paying for gun arrests?

327 dog philosopher  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:48:18pm

re: #315 Dark_Falcon

Link, please?

same as before:

nytimes.com

328 dog philosopher  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:50:03pm

re: #316 FemNaziBitch

Look at this picture —photo lights reflected in kitty eyes.

Very kewl!

Now, I am actually going to read the article …

These Scientists Studied Why Internet Stories Go Viral. You Won’t

cats

329 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:51:02pm

re: #327 dog philosopher

same as before:

nytimes.com

Thank you.

330 RealityBasedSteve  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:53:07pm

re: #301 darthstar

Hey…I think I found the girl of your dreams.

[Embedded content]

Must avoid making “Trickle Down” reference.

RBS

331 CuriousLurker  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:53:21pm

Drive-by: Can’t help but wonder how many wingnut heads are exploding over this photo of so many successful Black men in the White House. Is it wicked of me to feel happy that they’ll be annoyed?

332 Political Atheist  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:53:42pm

re: #323 FemNaziBitch

So, why aren’t these guys prosecuted under existing gun laws?

They are. Just not fast and often enough. Look at the link and you will see what they are doing. It pays in public safety to get after the worst offenders first resource wise.

333 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:53:47pm
334 Belafon  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:55:35pm

re: #331 CuriousLurker

They made their money making white guys richer. It’s all good.

335 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:56:40pm
336 gwangung  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:57:08pm

re: #327 dog philosopher

same as before:

nytimes.com

Hm. Burying the technology is not going to help—once the cat’s out of the bag, it’s out there. For sure, out and out criminals and grey hat hackers are going to have this technology shortly

337 Stanley Sea  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:58:54pm

re: #331 CuriousLurker

>Drive-by: Can’t help but wonder how many wingnut heads are exploding over this photo of so many successful Black men in the White House. Is it wicked of me to feel happy that they’ll be annoyed?

[Embedded content]

It’s the entire reason for the season.

Too many blacks in that there white house.

338 dog philosopher  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:59:13pm

re: #336 gwangung

Hm. Burying the technology is not going to help—once the cat’s out of the bag, it’s out there. For sure, out and out criminals and grey hat hackers are going to have this technology shortly

and this is just the stuff that we have found out about

339 Skip Intro  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:59:28pm

re: #309 Feline Fearless Leader

That thaw in Alaska is the heat coming off Stonekettle Station. Nice “travel hell” post.
stonekettle.com

One of the greatest airlines from hell stories I’ve ever read. Well worth the long read.

340 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 6:59:52pm

night all!

341 Stanley Sea  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 7:01:24pm

re: #339 Skip Intro

One of the greatest airlines from hell stories I’ve ever read. Well worth the long read.

Yeah, she says like a cat licking up cream, you’ll need to see the gate agent for a seat assignment.

I’m still reading!

342 gwangung  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 7:01:29pm

re: #338 dog philosopher

and this is just the stuff that we have found out about

I remember John Rogers was blogging that it was tough keeping his show, LEVERAGE, 6 months ahead of current tech…

343 Stanley Sea  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 7:02:49pm
While they were dealing with him, suddenly the smell of burning marijuana permeated the air. That’s right, somebody, somewhere, was smoking weed. I thought it might in the cockpit.
344 Pie-onist Overlord  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 7:03:08pm

re: #301 darthstar

Hey…I think I found the girl of your dreams.

[Embedded content]

Is that Dana Loesch?

345 Political Atheist  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 7:03:47pm

Sharing some good news-I finally get to remodel a room at the day job shop facility for documentary / educational purposes. Lights, walls, furniture etc. Gonna be a sweet spot for interviews and filming actual bench work with silver or gold.

Freetoken, if you have any interest in going to an annual GIA tour/Kraftwerks? It’s a day of jewelry and precious metal seminars and demonstrations, Casting- old school and modern, gold refining, wire and sheet making. Actual work in gold, silver, palladium and probably platinum.

I’d like to extend the invitation to you as my guest. Location Ontario CA at the gold refinery. Late April. Other good Lizards that are jewelers or precious metals artists are also welcome of course. More detail only to those interested and via email.

346 Hercules Grytpype-Thynneghazi  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 7:05:49pm

re: #285 EPR-radar

Dear Mary Fallin,

That wonderful law that was passed by the good people of OK with 75 percent support was found to be without rational basis by the court.

Please provide a rational argument in favor of marriage inequality or FOAD.

No love.

Here was my favorite comment from the Tulsa World story:

I am Christian and have no problem with same sex couples my problem is Marriage between man and man or women and women are not what I consider morally right i had no problem when they used Legal Unions but this is by fair going to fair and i do have a lot of gay,bi and transgender friends I have no hate for them i just don’t see this as morally right and the judge who has allowed this yes is following not the Constitution but the bill of rights witch guarantees equality for everyone but as i said i don’t agree with same sex marriage However if the law dose pass don’t expect all pastier or priest or religious leaders to marry you guys as its the right as well to refuse to based on religious grounds to do so and the Government has no business in that ether just saying remember its a two way street so if you get it don’t expect everyone to agree to marry you with no problems .

To be fair, it’s not a whole lot less rational than the other anti-equality arguments.

347 dog philosopher  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 7:09:06pm

re: #346 Hercules Grytpype-Thynneghazi

Here was my favorite comment from the Tulsa World story:

To be fair, it’s not a whole lot less rational than the other anti-equality arguments.

clearly a member of antipunctuationalist sect

348 lawhawk  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 7:09:07pm

So, lets see. Had a commute from hell. Train I was on struck a car that sat on the tracks. No one was injured, and the driver of the car was issued multiple summonses, but the collision occurred at a crossing where there have been at least four other incidents in recent years - including one just two weeks ago.

Meanwhile, ran a few errands after I got home, and witnessed a car go into utility pole. Lucky again that no one was hurt, and that the power lines didn’t come down or knock out power, but PSE&G will have to come out to replace the pole, which is essentially snapped nearly in half.

Drivers around here are just nuts.

349 Skip Intro  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 7:11:07pm

re: #341 Stanley Sea

Yeah, she says like a cat licking up cream, you’ll need to see the gate agent for a seat assignment.

I’m still reading!

Reminds me of the very last time I ever flew. It was a return trip from Maui. The lines were long because there were no people at the desk; they had been replaced with kiosks which next to nobody had any idea how to use to check in, let alone get a seat assignment or try for an upgrade.

Midway through the wait (an hour or so), an airline employee comes up to me and asks if I’ve weighed my baggage. I say no, they do that at the desk. He says no, they do it over there (where there’s another long line of people queuing up to use the only available scale.

So I ask if I go over there do I lose my place in this line? Well, of course I do.

So, it takes over two hours just to get my baggage weighed and checked in by the only person this airline (let’s call it United) has for the purpose.

Then it’s off to the TSA line for more joy.

Last time for me, ever.

350 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 7:13:36pm

re: #323 FemNaziBitch

So, why aren’t these guys prosecuted under existing gun laws?

Occasionally they are. Mostly though as long as it’s blah on blah or brown, the police aren’t in any hurry and there’s no “glory” for the DA’s.

351 Uncle Obdicut  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 7:13:46pm

re: #311 Political Atheist

Yeah that’s a lot. Did you notice gun accident rates have been going down as well?

Your reply makes no sense. Why is that ‘a lot’? What would it take for it to be ‘a little’? What actual numbers?

352 abolitionist  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 7:18:49pm

re: #313 dog philosopher

re: #315 Dark_Falcon

Link, please?

Try here leaksource.wordpress.com

CottonMouth is detailed about halfway down the page.

353 Political Atheist  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 7:20:20pm

re: #351 Uncle Obdicut

Yeah that’s a lot. Did you notice gun accident rates have been going down as well?

Your reply makes no sense. Why is that ‘a lot’? What would it take for it to be ‘a little’?

Oh? Posted it as my own opinion. A little would be by half or maybe less of current levels. But I would not use national numbers to assess my own needs. That’s a far more local and personal reality. National stats are very low resolution.
It happens enough for me to consider it a lot.

354 Uncle Obdicut  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 7:21:13pm

re: #353 Political Atheist

Oh? Posted it as my own opinion. A little would be by half or maybe less of current levels.

So a rate of 9 would be ‘a little’? Okay.

But I would not use national numbers to assess my own needs. That’s a far more local and personal reality. National stats are very low resolution.
>It happens enough for me to consider it a lot.

So areas where it’s only 9, locally, you’d consider there to be ‘a little’, right?

355 Political Atheist  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 7:27:35pm

re: #354 Uncle Obdicut

So a rate of 9 would be ‘a little’? Okay.

So areas where it’s only 9, locally, you’d consider there to be ‘a little’, right?

Yes. But let’s not forget than even a little is dangerous and tragic for the victims. Or that these numbers apply from to the importance of passive defenses like good doors, the advantage of a truly gated and secured neighborhood. Good alarms. Lots of things short of the truly last resort, the firearm.

356 Uncle Obdicut  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 7:40:34pm

re: #355 Political Atheist

Yes. But let’s not forget than even a little is dangerous and tragic for the victims.

I don’t know what you mean by ‘let’s not forget’. Do you think I’m likely to forget that, or what?

Or that these numbers apply from to the importance of passive defenses like good doors, the advantage of a truly gated and secured neighborhood. Good alarms. Lots of things short of the truly last resort, the firearm.

Really, it’s mostly just people not actually trying.

So would you agree in a place where there’s little chance of violent assault, that it would be sensible to not own a gun for self-defense, since, again, there’s very little chance of violent assault?

357 Political Atheist  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 7:54:55pm

re: #356 Uncle Obdicut

I don’t know what you mean by ‘let’s not forget’. Do you think I’m likely to forget that, or what?

Really, it’s mostly just people not actually trying.

So would you agree in a place where there’s little chance of violent assault, that it would be sensible to not own a gun for self-defense, since, again, there’s very little chance of violent assault?

Yes. Of course this would have no bearing on a target sport shooter. Or a hunter. And it would be their call what means a little as in little enough to say yes or no to a gun. If a responsible law abiding person wants to take that measure against that number or lower, that’s their call. Their right.

Ah we have another small misunderstanding. I’m not citing the passive measures above as why the rate is down. I’m saying the responsible person uses these same risk/benefit numbers to assess all the measures. For example one might not do the window bars for fear of fire in a safer area, and have the bars in a rougher area. At the most ordinary level some should consider the robber/burglary risk on hot summer nights when we are tempted to leave windows or maybe doors open. Especially those single moms at home.

The last resort is a thread that runs through the fabric of risk/benefit as seen through our own individual judgement.

One more thing. My link above repeated here has a whole other bunch of stats that are worth reading.

358 Uncle Obdicut  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 7:56:46pm

re: #357 Political Atheist

Yes. Of course this would have no bearing on a target sport shooter. Or a hunter. And it would be their call what means a little as in little enough to say yes or no to a gun.

Wait, why is it suddenly subjective? I don’t get it. I’m talking about an actual risk calculation between the risk of violent attack and the risks of gun ownership. Why are you talking about some emotionality?

359 Political Atheist  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 8:00:04pm

re: #358 Uncle Obdicut

Wait, why is it suddenly subjective? I don’t get it. I’m talking about an actual risk calculation between the risk of violent attack and the risks of gun ownership. Why are you talking about some emotionality?

Not emotionality. Personal judgement. Having a gun or not is not just math and stats.

360 Uncle Obdicut  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 8:03:46pm

re: #359 Political Atheist

Not emotionality. Personal judgement. Having a gun or not is not just math and stats.

Okay. So earlier you claimed that people actually did do a risk-reward calculus before buying a gun. Now you’re saying that that calculus is insufficient. Can you explain what there is, beyond statistics, that would guide you in whether it’s safer to have a gun or not?

361 Political Atheist  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 8:10:11pm

re: #360 Uncle Obdicut

Okay. So earlier you claimed that people actually did do a risk-reward calculus before buying a gun. Now you’re saying that that calculus is insufficient. Can you explain what there is, beyond statistics, that would guide you in whether it’s safer to have a gun or not?

Understanding the risk/benefit and applying our own judgement. Neither is very good without the other. I must be missing something in your comment, this seems terribly obvious and unremarkable to me.

362 Uncle Obdicut  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 8:11:49pm

re: #361 Political Atheist

Understanding the risk/benefit and applying our own judgement.

What is ‘our own judgement’, and how is it separate from understanding the risk/benefit?

What are you judging, other than risk and benefit?

363 Political Atheist  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 8:38:52pm

re: #362 Uncle Obdicut

What is ‘our own judgement’, and how is it separate from understanding the risk/benefit?

I just mean in the ordinarily defined sense.
“judgement - the cognitive process of reaching a decision or drawing conclusions”

What are you judging, other than risk and benefit?

Judgement is why we need people in the loop of many kinds of decisions. Judicial, political and personal defense or sport choices. More examples than I can think of. The gun issue is similar in that way.

Let me take this right to my own abode. Keeping it real. The stats say D_L and I are a bigger risk to each other with a gun in the home than a robber or home invader risk. Okay. Our personal trust and faith in one another via 30 years together and plenty of training trumps that. That’s our judgement call. I don’t say that tells anyone else what to do. It simply illustrates how we came to a different conclusion than most of our neighbors or co workers.

We are sport shooters. We love the thrill of the IDPA action/speed sport and use the accident numbers to remind us to always stay careful. We take comfort in the decline of unintentional gun deaths. And that guns are less than 1% of unintentional deaths in the home. So being careful at home has a gun issue and a list of much larger statistical risks. We are saddened like anyone else at tragic gun deaths by whatever cause.

With all due respect for your next comment, I’ll likely see it tomorrow. I’m going upstairs to a happier topic and some other things to do here. I do hope you do not take that as any slight or unwillingness to discuss the issue. We have some points of agreement and some points where we have come to different conclusions. To you and the rest who may still be reading these-I hope I have been clear enough to make a decent case for my personal views.

364 Uncle Obdicut  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 8:41:07pm

re: #363 Political Atheist

I just mean in the ordinarily defined sense.
“judgement - the cognitive process of reaching a decision or drawing conclusions”
.

Again, what are you judging? I’m talking about judging whether or not you should have a gun for self defense or if the risk of having it is greater than the risk of attack. What is there to judge about that, other than the statistics of it?

You seem to be talking about a whole mess of totally unrelated stuff.

And as usual, I’m deeply unsatisfied with the way you’ve dealt with this topic, the way you’ve talked to me, and the way you’ve changed your argument repeatedly.

365 Political Atheist  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 9:05:27pm

re: #364 Uncle Obdicut

And as usual, I’m deeply unsatisfied with the way you’ve dealt with this topic, the way you’ve talked to me, and the way you’ve changed your argument repeatedly.

Well that’s a shame. Put some time and effort in . I think you just don’t get me. It happens. I can hope most don’t share in your feelings on my comments to you.

Good night.

366 Uncle Obdicut  Tue, Jan 14, 2014 9:14:10pm

re: #365 Political Atheist

Well that’s a shame. Put some time and effort in . I think you just don’t get me. It happens. I can hope most don’t share in your feelings on my comments to you.

Good night.

Nope. It’s not that I just don’t get you. It’s that you do crappy things like call me ‘anti-gun’, that you don’t explain yourself when you talk about ‘personal judgment’ about a risk. I really sincerely feel you argue this subject very badly, very emotionally, very inconsistently, and that you move the goalposts constantly.

All I’m asking is that responsible gun owners lend their expertise and counsel people who don’t really need a gun for home protection, where the odds are all against them ever needing it, of that fact.

It is baffling how threatening that is to you.

367 Political Atheist  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 6:05:47am

re: #366 Uncle Obdicut

You appear to revel in being hard to please on this.

You ignored my explanation of why I refer to myself as pro gun and that you have some anti gun aspects to your position. You take that as a pejorative, against my stated intent.

Several times I have pointed out the value of the stats, and that prospective gun owners should know them. You missed that apparently. And the fact most gun owners understand the likelihood of needing it in defense is low. Well newsflash dude they want it despite the numbers. Some do anyway, most of the population does not.

I’m not threatened by your point of view. I simply put it with the point about individual choice, that we have our right to bear arms,

Judgement? Really never though tthat needed explaining but I’ll give it a try. Those stats are low resolution. When we drill down to an individual of family they use their judgement to look at thier personal circumstances and then make a choice.

In effort to explain that I laid out exactly how that worked in my home. You totally blew that off.

You were wrong to call Satty’s point facile, and at this point given all of the above, I am really de motivated to discuss this subject any further.

I also feel your disappointment in my comments is shared by few to none.


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