New Quinnipiac Poll: Most Americans Think Snowden “More of a Whistleblower,” but Still Want Him Prosecuted

A “whistleblower” who should be brought to justice
Poll • Views: 27,072

Today Glenn Greenwald and his cronies are crowing about a new Quinnipiac University poll, showing that a majority of Americans consider Edward Snowden more of a “whistleblower” than a “traitor.”

Here’s the question:

“Do you regard Edward Snowden — the national security consultant who released information to the media about the phone scanning program — as more of a traitor, or more of a whistle-blower?”

34% say they consider him more of a traitor, 57% say whistleblower.

But notice: that either/or question doesn’t allow for any opinions in between. For example, I do not consider Snowden to be a whistleblower, but I’m not sure I’d go all the way to “traitor,” either.

Be that as it may, it’s very interesting to see the poll responses Greenwald didn’t mention:

“Do you support or oppose the federal government program in which all phone calls are scanned to see if any calls are going to a phone number linked to terrorism?”

Support: 48%
Oppose: 47%

[…]

“Do you think this program is necessary to keep Americans safe or not?”

Necessary: 48%
Not necessary: 46%

[…]

“Do you think the Obama administration should drop the pursuit of Edward Snowden and let him come home as a free man or not?”

Should drop pursuit: 39%
Should NOT drop pursuit: 47%

So even though a plurality of Americans think Snowden’s “more of a whistleblower,” they still think he should face prosecution, and they’re almost evenly split on support for the NSA’s data collection programs. I wonder why Greenwald isn’t trumpeting those numbers?

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493 comments

1 Internet Tough Guy  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 10:24:40am

OBOT

2 b_sharp  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 10:26:04am

GG is the poster child for motivated reasoning.

3 Kragar  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 10:28:09am

Whistleblowers don’t flee to foreign countries and use the data to blackmail the government.

4 erik_t  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 10:28:16am

When you are having an argument on merit and you resort to citing the fraction of third parties who ostensibly agree with you, that means you are losing the argument on its merits.

5 Kragar  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 10:28:40am
6 Pie-onist Overlord  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 10:29:08am

When did this country shift from Trial By Jury to Trial By Twitter?

7 erik_t  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 10:30:05am

re: #5 Kragar

That’s unusually racist, even for Bryan Fischer.

8 Pie-onist Overlord  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 10:31:22am

This wingnut has been retweeting this like every half hour or so. Is he saying that wingnuts should go and burn down liberals houses?

9 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 10:32:10am
10 wrenchwench  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 10:33:24am

Imagine working month after month to demonize Snowden Obama as a traitor tyrant only to wake up & see this new polling data

“Do you think the Obama administration should drop the pursuit of Edward Snowden and let him come home as a free man or not?”

Should drop pursuit: 39%
Should NOT drop pursuit: 47%

FTFHim

11 Lidane  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 10:34:23am

re: #3 Kragar

Whistleblowers don’t flee to foreign countries and use the data to blackmail the government.

Yep.

Snowden’s no whistleblower. He’s an extortionist and a defector.

12 Targetpractice  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 10:35:19am

re: #9 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Even if I believed some good came of Snowden’s actions, and that’s a pretty tall order, I’d still want his sorry ass to stand trial for his actions. We don’t overlook multiple felonies just because one has succeeded in winning a popularity contest.

13 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 10:35:28am

re: #7 erik_t

That’s unusually racist, even for Bryan Fischer.

It’s not racist, its religiously bigoted. Muslims aren’t a race, since they come from many ethnic backgrounds. It’s a small difference, especially since Bryan Fischer is also a racist, but it is important to correctly state the wrongs of the enemy.

14 Dr. Matt  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 10:38:55am

re: #13 Dark_Falcon

It’s not racist, its religiously bigoted. Muslims aren’t a race, since they come from many ethnic backgrounds. It’s a small difference, especially since Bryan Fischer is also a racist, but it is important to correctly state the wrongs of the enemy.

Racism/racial discrimination doesn’t have to be based on race:

The term “racial discrimination” shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction, or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin that has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life. hri.org

15 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 10:39:27am

Well this poll is a ‘registered voters’ poll which is the “silver standard” for polling in my eyes. But I found it noteworthy that the poll did not do a breakdown of respondents by party affiliation or age. Absent those qualifications, the poll might have been unintentionally skewed.

16 makeitstop  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 10:40:57am

OT, but the Fallon/Springsteen ‘Born To Run’ parody probably made Christie cry himself to sleep last night. He’d trade in all those Dem endorsements if he could hear Bruce say ‘I like you, Governor’ just once.

Youtube Video

17 Pie-onist Overlord  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 10:43:21am

GOHMERT!!!!

18 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 10:43:46am

re: #14 Dr. Matt

Racism/racial discrimination doesn’t have to be based on race:

The term “racial discrimination” shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction, or p>reference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin that has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life. hri.org

Noted, but Fischer wasn’t going after any of those things in that Tweet. He was attacking people belonging to a given religion.

Don’t misunderstand me: What Bryan Fischer Tweeted was bigoted, hateful, and stupid. I yield to no one in despising that man. I only made the correction I made in the interesting of accurately keeping track of Fischer’s misdeeds.

19 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 10:46:35am

re: #17 Pie-onist Overlord

GOHMERT!!!!

[Embedded content]

It’s a less articulate version of Phil Robertson’s attack on homosexuality. Gohmert tried the same tack as Robertson but was once again let down by his stupidity.

20 Lidane  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 10:46:44am

re: #17 Pie-onist Overlord

Dear GOHMERT!,

They wanted to take basic plumbing lessons, but you and the rest of the GOP decided they only needed to learn never to look at, touch, or inspect the pipes until marriage.

Also, you’re a tool.

No love,
Me

21 wrenchwench  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 10:48:57am
22 darthstar  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 10:51:21am

47% of Americans voted for Mitt Romney.

There’s plenty of stupid in this country. One poll showing people see Snowden as a whistleblower doesn’t change the fact that he broke the motherfucking law.

23 Pie-onist Overlord  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 10:54:49am
24 Targetpractice  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 10:54:50am

re: #17 Pie-onist Overlord

GOHMERT!!!!

[Embedded content]

Court’s already addressing this, Louie. If your view is that marriage is heterosexuals-only for the purpose of kids, then you have to explain why elderly couples or couples where one or both partners are infertile can still get married.

25 lawhawk  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 10:54:55am

re: #15 Dark_Falcon

Well this poll is a ‘registered voters’ poll which is the “silver standard” for polling in my eyes. But I found it noteworthy that the poll did not do a breakdown of respondents by party affiliation or age. Absent those qualifications, the poll might have been unintentionally skewed.

The polling breakouts are here:

Traitor 34% Rep 41% Dem 36% Ind 31%
Whistleblower Tot 57% Rep 50% Dem 55% Ind 62%
DK/NA 9/9/9/7

In other words, Dem/GOP is pretty even on Snowden as whistleblower, but like Charles, Snowden’s actions fall between traitor and whistleblower. If I were asked among these options, traitor is what I’d probably do. He engaged in espionage. He undermined national security and leaked classified information to those who might wish to do the nation harm.

What’s interesting is that the poll found no movement on whether he’s a traitor or whistleblower from July 2013 until now (Jan 9). It’s all within margin of error move - a 2 point move from DK/NA to whistle blower.

As for whether Obama Admin should drop pursuit of Snowden, it’s consistent across party affiliation that they shouldn’t.

Total/R/D/I: 47/50/48/47 say they shouldn’t drop pursuit versus 39/37/34/43. Self reporting liberals suggest that they’d more likely want Obama to drop pursuit than continue 47/43, but it’s flipped for moderates and conservatives.

It also has a similar response based on household income and age.
Under $50k and those 18-29 were more likely to want pursuit dropped than to continue going after him.

The demographics for the poll are here.

Party ID: R-26, D-28, I-37.
Political Philosophy Lib-31, Mod-38, Cons-37.
Household income: Under $50k-42%, $50-100k-26%, and 20% for over $100k.

26 HappyWarrior  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 10:55:00am

re: #17 Pie-onist Overlord

GOHMERT!!!!

[Embedded content]

And GOHMERT! needs some basic reasoning lessons.

27 HappyWarrior  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 10:56:02am

re: #5 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Or the Tamil Tigers or the LRA. Stupid bigot has his head far so up his fat asshole when it comes to Muslim. Newsflash Bry, Muslims aren’t the only terrorists in the world and Allah is merely God in their language. So great job shit head, you insulted Arab Christians with your typically bigoted spiel.

28 Lidane  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 10:56:23am
29 BusyMonster  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 10:56:28am

I think of Snowden as more of a weenie hacker with delusions of grandeur. He’s the kind of little shit who would benefit mightily from being removed from his little Aeron chair and forced to clean up the mess he just made.

From my POV, Snowden has said he took MY personal info, and he’s now in Russia, having probably given MY personal info to some Russian hacker/spammer, or all of them.

I’m not going to nominate him for any fucking kind of award.

30 HappyWarrior  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 10:57:40am

I’m not sure how I see Snowden. I don’t think traitor but at the same time I don’t see a whistleblower either. The truth is more nuanced than that. Much like how I don’t believe Snowden should be executed or spend the rest of his life behind bars or that he should be full out pardoned.

31 Kragar  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 10:57:52am
32 Lidane  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 10:58:12am

re: #24 Targetpractice

Court’s already addressing this, Louie. If your view is that marriage is heterosexuals-only for the purpose of kids, then you have to explain why elderly couples or couples where one or both partners are infertile can still get married.

They also have to explain why couples who ARE fertile, but who don’t want children can still get married. Not everyone in their child-bearing years wants to be a parent. Others would be fine with adopting a child instead of having one themselves. Should they be denied the right to marry?

33 gwangung  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 10:58:50am

re: #30 HappyWarrior

I’m not sure how I see Snowden. I don’t think traitor but at the same time I don’t see a whistleblower either. The truth is more nuanced than that. Much like how I don’t believe Snowden should be executed or spend the rest of his life behind bars or that he should be full out pardoned.

He tried to play hero, and he had delusions of grandeur. But he’s is nowhere near as smart as he thinks he is. He was exceedingly clumsy, doing as much harm as he did good.

34 Lidane  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 10:59:10am

re: #31 Kragar

Someone was clearly in a coma during the Bush years.

35 HappyWarrior  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 10:59:36am

re: #31 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Oh really?
en.wikipedia.org
And what’s more is Obama has actually issued relatively few compared to two term predecessors like Bush, Reagan, and Clinton.

36 Pie-onist Overlord  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 11:00:11am

re: #34 Lidane

Someone was clearly in a coma during the Bush years.

HURR HURR!!!!

37 BusyMonster  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 11:00:12am

@Kragar:

My first thought as a reply to the freeper was “wow, you never paid any attention to the President until he became a black man, did you?”

Or also “so, you are admitting you are completely ignorant of how the Presidency works?”

38 Targetpractice  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 11:00:22am

re: #31 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Ah, another Civics class reject.

39 lawhawk  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 11:00:27am

re: #31 Kragar

Executive Orders? He’s never heard of Executive Orders? How is that possible?

Executive Orders by Tom Clancy. Best Seller.

40 HappyWarrior  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 11:01:08am

re: #36 Pie-onist Overlord

HURR HURR!!!!

[Embedded content]

Yes Afghanistan is the “Bamster’s war”. Amazing how he could send troops to Afghanistan as a mere state senator.

41 RealityBasedSteve  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 11:02:03am

re: #31 Kragar
I never even HEARD of “executive orders” before OZERO came in. It cannot be legal for presidents to just “order” things done like that.

[Embedded content]

Argument from Ignorance. It’s called that for a REASON!!!

RBS

42 Targetpractice  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 11:02:24am

re: #39 lawhawk

Executive Orders? He’s never heard of Executive Orders? How is that possible?

Executive Orders by Tom Clancy. Best Seller.

I preferred The Hunt for Red October myself.

43 Varek Raith  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 11:02:49am

re: #31 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Lolwhut.

44 HappyWarrior  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 11:03:53am

It’s kind of like how the right wing pundits were getting all puffy about Obama’s “czars.” My favorite was some right wing idiot who likened the existence of the czars to Bolshevism.

45 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 11:06:04am

Greenwald and the Christian Science Monitor’s Dan Murphy have been going at it…

46 Pie-onist Overlord  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 11:06:16am

re: #37 BusyMonster

@Kragar:

My first thought as a reply to the freeper was “wow, you never paid any attention to the President until he became a black man, did you?”

Or also “so, you are admitting you are completely ignorant of how the Presidency works?”

This is the OFFICIAL FreeRepublic Twitter account:

47 lawhawk  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 11:06:38am

re: #42 Targetpractice

One ping. One ping only Vasily.

I don’t count anything after C&PD in movie form to be canon. Don’t consider the new Jack Ryan movie to be canon either.

48 Kragar  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 11:07:34am
49 HappyWarrior  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 11:07:46am

re: #45 Charles Johnson

Greenwald and the Christian Science Monitor’s Dan Murphy have been going at it…

[Embedded content]

Pretty much nails it regarding GG. He only wants to hear reporters praise his boy Snowden and anyone who says otherwise gets attacked. Fuck Greenwald. If he wanted to seriously have a debate on this issue, he wouldn’t shut down any discussion on the issue that doesn’t involve praising Snowden as the greatest thing since doner kebab.

50 lawhawk  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 11:08:45am

re: #31 Kragar

Maybe if that account owner spent more time reading civics books instead of retweeting pablum puking Pastilles and anti-Obama tropes…

51 Joanne  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 11:09:52am

re: #31 Kragar

Look at my thumb…. How to beclown your entire movement.

52 HappyWarrior  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 11:11:00am

re: #51 Joanne

Look at my thumb…. How to beclown your entire movement.

[Embedded content]

George Washington was a big government liburul.

53 Pie-onist Overlord  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 11:11:04am

re: #50 lawhawk

Maybe if that account owner spent more time reading civics books instead of retweeting pablum puking Pastilles and anti-Obama tropes…

The Twitter account FreeRepublic.txt is actually an aggregator that collects TEH MOAST DERP from Freep.

@FreeRepublicUSA is the official FReep account.

I know, I know it can be hard to tell them apart.

54 Kragar  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 11:11:14am

re: #50 lawhawk

Maybe if that account owner spent more time reading civics books instead of retweeting pablum puking Pastilles and anti-Obama tropes…

Please note that the “@FreeRepublicTXT” account simply reads thru comments at Free Republic and pulls out the real gems like the one listed above. Its not one guy making all those comments.

55 jaunte  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 11:11:17am

re: #46 Pie-onist Overlord

Socialism: Equal result (sharing misery)

Like Norway. They’re all completely miserable over there.
en.wikipedia.org

56 RealityBasedSteve  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 11:11:33am

re: #49 HappyWarrior

Pretty much nails it regarding GG. He only wants to hear reporters praise his boy Snowden and anyone who says otherwise gets attacked. Fuck Greenwald. If he wanted to seriously have a debate on this issue, he wouldn’t shut down any discussion on the issue that doesn’t involve praising Snowden as the greatest thing since doner kebab.

Damm you. Now I REALLY want a Gyro for lunch.

RBS

57 Pie-onist Overlord  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 11:11:59am

re: #51 Joanne

Look at my thumb…. How to beclown your entire movement.

[Embedded content]

U got pwn3d, FreeRepublicTXT is an aggregator that collects all TEH DERP from FR.

58 lawhawk  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 11:12:12am

re: #54 Kragar

Please note that the “@FreeRepublicTXT” account simply reads thru comments at Free Republic and pulls out the real gems like the one listed above. Its not one guy making all those comments.

Collectivist derp. Gotcha.

59 Joanne  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 11:12:19am

re: #34 Lidane

Someone was clearly in a coma during the Bush years.

Or the Reagan years.

Total 381

Term I: 213
Term II: 168

More than any president after Eisenhower.

60 Targetpractice  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 11:12:26am

re: #48 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Which obviously means that Obama got to the committee and forced them to come to that conclusion, thus proving that the conspiracy is hard at work.

///

61 HappyWarrior  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 11:12:43am

re: #55 jaunte

Like Norway. They’re all completely miserable over there.
en.wikipedia.org

Iceland seems to be pretty happy too. Got a friend doing grad school over there. Right wing idiots like to lump every left wing government and economic action in the same boat of the Soviet Union or even paradoxically given how free market it’s become the PRC.

62 Joanne  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 11:13:02am

re: #37 BusyMonster

@Kragar:

My first thought as a reply to the freeper was “wow, you never paid any attention to the President until he became a black man, did you?”

Or also “so, you are admitting you are completely ignorant of how the Presidency works?”

Totally stealing that!

63 HappyWarrior  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 11:13:11am

re: #59 Joanne

Or the Reagan years.

More than any president after Eisenhower.

“Oh, that was because Tip O’Neil would ruin America.”

64 Lidane  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 11:14:36am

Speaking of Free Republic, the comments at this article read like an argument between a bunch of illiterate Freepers and the liberals that love to antagonize them:

65 Joanne  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 11:15:06am

re: #37 BusyMonster

66 Kragar  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 11:16:32am

re: #65 Joanne

[Embedded content]

@FreeRepublicTXT is just an aggregator of comments from Freepers. He’s not making the comments himself.

67 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 11:17:07am

David Sirota is shocked — shocked! — to find politics going on in Washington.

68 Joanne  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 11:18:01am

re: #57 Pie-onist Overlord

U got pwn3d, FreeRepublicTXT is an aggregator that collects all TEH DERP from FR.

That I did.

69 Lidane  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 11:18:33am
70 Kragar  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 11:18:50am

re: #68 Joanne

That I did.

Its okay. I went nuts the first time I saw one of his tweets too.

71 HappyWarrior  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 11:19:11am

re: #67 Charles Johnson

David Sirota is shocked — shocked! — to find politics going on in Washington.

[Embedded content]

Or maybe David it’s because Obama would rather get some reform then nothing. Frankly, this is the left wing version of fuck you, I got mine. Sirota is already insured. Would I prefer single-payer? Absolutely but at the same time, I realize that some progress (ACA) on the issue is better than nothing (the past status quo/what Congressional Republicans and Teabaggers want to return to).

72 Targetpractice  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 11:19:39am

re: #67 Charles Johnson

David Sirota is shocked — shocked! — to find politics going on in Washington.

[Embedded content]

Yet I’ve got wingnuts aplenty assuring me that the ACA was all the President’s sinister plan to utter devastate the private health insurance industry, thus paving the way for *GASP!* single-payer!

Youtube Video

73 jaunte  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 11:19:45am

“I’ll never go grazing with Willie again.”

74 Ian G.  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 11:20:19am

re: #5 Kragar

You know, stuff like this has an oddly comforting effect on me. When you read the comments by KSM about how homosexuals and secularism are “destroying” the west, you realize how uncomfortably close his worldview is to that of clowns like Fischer.

But they will never join forces to go to war with the “decadent, godless liberals” because they’re too busy fighting over whose god has the bigger dick. I’d prefer to keep it that way.

75 Pie-onist Overlord  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 11:20:20am

David Sirota is just a drooling little Glennbot.

76 jaunte  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 11:21:08am

It’s pretty silly of Sirota to think the country was ready for single payer if only the President advocated for it.

77 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 11:21:29am

I think it’s hilarious to see all these libertarian columnists losing their shit over stuff that’s not controversial or unusual in the slightest. These people must have grown up in a bubble.

78 HappyWarrior  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 11:21:30am

re: #74 Ian G.

You know, stuff like this has an oddly comforting effect on them. When you read the comments by KSM about how homosexuals and secularism are “destroying” the west, you realize how uncomfortably close his worldview is to that of clowns like Fischer.

But they will never join forces to go to war with the “decadent, godless liberals” because they’re too busy fighting over whose god has the bigger dick. I’d prefer to keep it that way.

Yeah scary times if those two sides ever realize they have more in common then not. Fischer would be right at home in the Taliban.

79 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 11:22:58am
80 Targetpractice  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 11:23:12am

re: #76 jaunte

It’s pretty silly of Sirota to think the country was ready for single payer if only the President advocated for it.

Hell, the public option died a very slow, public death when Joe “Senator from Allstate” Lieberman declared that he’d join the GOP filibuster unless it was excised from the bill and never spoken of again.

81 lawhawk  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 11:24:23am

Pragmatists and realists versus pie-in-sky (what color is the sky in your universe) folks who think that the President could simply enact a law that most within his own caucus weren’t about to go on a limb to back.

The President sought a compromise plan with the ACA, and the history of the development of that legislation is one of moderation and compromise, including attempting to win over GOP votes by adopting the central plank of GOP health care plans up through 2009 - the individual mandate.

However, once it became clear that the president was going to pursue HCR and use the individual mandate, the GOP began claiming that the IM was unconstitutional and somehow compromised individual rights and responsibilities - even though Heritage came up with the idea as a way to put responsibility on those without insurance to get it.

82 Ian G.  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 11:24:24am

re: #77 Charles Johnson

I think it’s hilarious to see all these libertarian columnists losing their shit over stuff that’s not controversial or unusual in the slightest. These people must have grown up in a bubble.

Since when does the libertarian worldview have any space for reality?

83 Single-handed sailor  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 11:24:58am

re: #76 jaunte

It’s pretty silly of Sirota to think the country was ready for single payer if only the President advocated for it.

David Sirota is a pretty silly man.

84 lawhawk  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 11:25:17am

re: #78 HappyWarrior

Missing the beard and he fears bears. Other than that. He’d fit right in.

85 Kragar  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 11:26:13am

re: #83 Single-handed sailor

David Sirota is a pretty silly man.

The phrase you want to use is “addlepated homunculus.”

86 HappyWarrior  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 11:26:36am

I mean I think Obama personally would have preferred public option/more elements of single payer but I think President Obama above all else is a pragmatist. He knows unlike many of the purer than thou that progress does not come in a day or here with a single act of legislation. Frankly, I find the fact that anything got passed admirable given the right’s hostility on this issue over the years. This was an issue that FDR, Truman, Nixon, and later Clinton couldn’t get passed and Obama did. It was at a cost (the Democratic majority in the House) but this has more people insured than were insured before. Is it the end all solution? I don’t think so. Sirota’s got to realize that Obama like any smart executive wanted to at least get something accomplished.

87 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 11:26:54am
88 Political Atheist  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 11:27:00am

I’d say he is a traitor. Betrayed his country. Liar. Thief. Spy. & I would say traitor in a poll.

89 Joanne  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 11:27:05am

re: #76 jaunte

It’s pretty silly of Sirota to think the country was ready for single payer if only the President advocated for it.

I kept getting emails from Jane Hampster (sic) about how we had to defeat Obamacare because it wasn’t single payer. I really hate that moron.

I would prefer single payer. Most people I know would prefer it. But it not only wasn’t on the table, it wasn’t in the ballpark, the city or the county. Lieberman said he would not vote yes if it was.,,which means Obamacare would have failed.

No stopping rescissions.
No removal of preexisting conditions.
No kids on parents policies.
None of the things people like.

It must be nice to refuse to look at how other countries (like Canada) came to have single payer. It wasn’t a one-and-done. It started in one province and worked its way out.

I find people who wear rose colored glasses so annoying…especially those with a platform to spew such ignorance.

90 HappyWarrior  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 11:27:09am

re: #84 lawhawk

Missing the beard and he fears bears. Other than that. He’d fit right in.

He can always grow one. Do the Taliban fear bears though?

91 GlutenFreeJesus  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 11:27:34am

re: #79 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Is that GOHMERT on the far left first row?

92 Lidane  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 11:28:19am

re: #79 Charles Johnson

Shorter GOP:

93 jaunte  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 11:28:32am

re: #91 GlutenFreeJesus

Look at his laser-like focus as he reads.

94 RealityBasedSteve  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 11:28:44am

re: #85 Kragar

The phrase you want to use is “addlepated homunculus.”

or possibly “slapdicked reprobate”

RBS

95 GlutenFreeJesus  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 11:29:08am

re: #93 jaunte

Look at his laser-like focus as he reads.

I think this week’s copy of Jughead came out today too!

96 HappyWarrior  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 11:29:14am

re: #87 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

And I think that shows you everything wrong about conservatism in our country that a pig that calls women who want contraception coverage sluts, teenage girls dogs, etc is admired at all. Number nine in the whole country? Are you fucking kidding me. I admire Bill O’Reilly more than that pos since at least O’Reilly isn’t always a pathetic hateful piece of shit.

97 GlutenFreeJesus  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 11:29:38am

re: #85 Kragar

The phrase you want to use is “addlepated homunculus.”

Hey man, leave Fullmetal Alchemist outta this!

98 HappyWarrior  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 11:30:17am

re: #89 Joanne

I kept getting emails from Jane Hampster (sic) about how we had to defeat Obamacare because it wasn’t single payer. I really hate that moron.

I would prefer single payer. Most people I know would prefer it. But it not only wasn’t on the table, it wasn’t in the ballpark, the city or the county. Lieberman said he would not vote yes if it was.,,which means Obamacare would have failed.

No stopping rescissions.
No removal of preexisting conditions.
No kids on parents policies.
None of the things people like.

It must be nice to refuse to look at how other countries (like Canada) came to have single payer. It wasn’t a one-and-done. It started in one province and worked its way out.

I find people who wear rose colored glasses so annoying…especially those with a platform to spew such ignorance.

Nailed it.

99 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 11:30:37am

re: #25 lawhawk

Thank you for that.

100 Kragar  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 11:31:03am

re: #97 GlutenFreeJesus

Hey man, leave Fullmetal Alchemist outta this!

My phrasing predates FMA by at least 8 years.

101 lawhawk  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 11:32:41am

GOP demands better security for Obamacare website - including Rep. Issa

Rep. Cummings: GOP leaves sensitive documents lying around regarding Obamacare:


Cummings asked Rep. Darrell Issa (R-Calif.) to implement security protocols for Oversight’s handling of sensitive ObamaCare materials, saying that on two occasions last week “sensitive documents were left unattended in unlocked rooms accessible by the public.”

“Although I understand that your office believes these documents are not sensitive, one was produced to the Committee in encrypted, password-protected format, and both were marked as sensitive documents that require special handling,” Cummings wrote.

Cummings reiterated his concern that Issa planned to selectively leak confidential information in a way that promotes inaccurate media coverage.

“I also remain concerned with the unilateral release by your office of partial transcripts and select document excerpts to promote partisan narratives that often turn out to be inaccurate, particularly when these releases are not part of any official report, correspondence, or other Committee action,” he said. “Not only is this a disservice to the American people and the goals we share, but it undermines the credibility and integrity of the Committee.”

The Democrat also expressed concern that Issa was sharing the Committee’s materials with unknown and perhaps unauthorized outside consultants.

“It is unclear who these outside experts are, who they work for, and who they may be affiliated with, raising concerns about what they may do with the information,” he wrote. “If they do not work for the government or any of its contractors, it is unclear what contractual or other restrictions they are under not to disclose this sensitive information further.”

To address these three areas, Cummings said the Oversight Committee should adopt a “bipartisan protocol to safeguard sensitive information,” “establish procedures for the storage and handling of these sensitive documents,” and inform members of “the identities of outside individuals who have been provided access to this sensitive information.”

102 Kragar  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 11:32:51am
103 BusyMonster  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 11:33:56am
I kept getting emails from Jane Hampster (sic) about how we had to defeat Obamacare because it wasn’t single payer. I really hate that moron.

Hamsher was also clinging to the Tea Party at one point, because I guess the Clinton butthurt was too strong. Hamsher’s whole “movement” is a textbook demonstration of how the perfect is the enemy of the good.

104 HappyWarrior  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 11:34:08am

re: #102 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Yeah but regulations are all evil. The fat mat on the radio with a clean source of water told me so.

105 Lidane  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 11:35:04am

re: #102 Kragar

Oh my god. WTF.

106 Targetpractice  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 11:36:38am

re: #102 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Obviously the problem is that Americans have gotten too used to clear water. Damned libruls made a bunch of women out of all of us!

////

107 BusyMonster  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 11:36:57am

@Kragar again — this new technology is making covering up one’s dirty business difficult.

I wonder how many other pictures of thick yellow water coming out of West Virginia will combine to make a very pretty collage of poison and incompetence?

108 HappyWarrior  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 11:37:20am

re: #106 Targetpractice

Obviously the problem is that Americans have gotten too used to clear water. Damned libruls made a bunch of women out of all of us!

////

What’s sad is people actually think that way. Oppose bullying? You’re making kids wusses in their pathetic eyes.

109 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 11:39:40am
110 Targetpractice  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 11:40:41am

re: #107 BusyMonster

@Kragar again — this new technology is making covering up one’s dirty business difficult.

I wonder how many other pictures of thick yellow water coming out of West Virginia will combine to make a very pretty collage of poison and incompetence?

Being a very cynical man these days, my guess is that nothing will come of this. People will rant and rave a few days, few weeks at the most, but then if the government actually tries to do anything, the coal industry will whine that it will be “forced” to cut jobs if a heavy fine is levied or stricter regulations are imposed and people will say “Okay, maybe it wasn’t that bad” and it will all go down the memory hole.

111 Pie-onist Overlord  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 11:41:45am

What is the ITS?

112 Kragar  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 11:42:53am

re: #111 Pie-onist Overlord

What is the ITS?

[Embedded content]

MONTY PYTHON’S FLYING CIRCUS!

113 Ian G.  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 11:44:40am

re: #111 Pie-onist Overlord

Take your pick:

en.wikipedia.org

I’d go with “Improv Tribal Style” belly dance.

114 Targetpractice  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 11:44:50am

Best way you can tell nothing will come of the mess in WV? Nobody’s dead. Thousands of people were inconvenienced for several days and there’s no telling if the contamination will have long-term effects on health or property, not to mention the danger to communities downriver who have yet to see this toxic plume show up in their drinking water supplies. But nobody’s dead, so there will be no emotional weight to any push to do more than scream a lot at Freedom’s stupidity for awhile.

115 wrenchwench  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 11:45:16am
116 Kragar  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 11:45:43am

re: #113 Ian G.

Take your pick:

en.wikipedia.org

I’d go with “Improv Tribal Style” belly dance.

I’m going with the Irish Texts Society

117 Pie-onist Overlord  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 11:46:31am
118 Kragar  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 11:47:05am
119 Ian G.  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 11:47:33am

re: #114 Targetpractice

Best way you can tell nothing will come of the mess in WV? Nobody’s dead. Thousands of people were inconvenienced for several days and there’s no telling if the contamination will have long-term effects on health or property, not to mention the danger to communities downriver who have yet to see this toxic plume show up in their drinking water supplies. But nobody’s dead, so there will be no emotional weight to any push to do more than scream a lot of Freedom’s stupidity for awhile.

It’s battered wife syndrome. WV doesn’t want to leave coal because it has nowhere else to go. “Aw no, officer, daddy coal didn’t mean to give me that black eye, and I really deserved it for making him so angry anyway.”

Until there’s something, anything to give West Virginia (and the rest of Appalachia) decent economic development opportunities, we’re going to be dealing with more incidents like this.

120 Pie-onist Overlord  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 11:47:43am

In 65 years, wouldn’t it be all the great-grandchildren of the “Progressive Gay Activists” who are all getting married now?

Oh wait…

121 Dr Lizardo  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 11:47:56am

re: #117 Pie-onist Overlord

[Embedded content]

Youtube Video

122 Targetpractice  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 11:48:15am

re: #118 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Special select committee? To look into what? What “crimes” are being alleged here, besides “Presidenting While Black”?

123 jaunte  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 11:48:32am

re: #111 Pie-onist Overlord

What is the ITS?

[Embedded content]

I’ll go with “Internal Taxing Service”.

124 Ian G.  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 11:49:05am

re: #89 Joanne

I kept getting emails from Jane Hampster (sic) about how we had to defeat Obamacare because it wasn’t single payer. I really hate that moron.

We also had to defeat Al Gore in 2000 for not being Eugene Debs. We have to teach…..someone…..a lesson!

That worked out really well.

//////////////////////////////////////

125 Ian G.  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 11:50:43am

re: #117 Pie-onist Overlord

Silly Beck. As a member of the godless secularist steering committee, we’re going to round up the Christians and put them in camps in a mere 40 years!

MUA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!

126 Targetpractice  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 11:51:31am

re: #125 Ian G.

Silly Beck. As a member of the godless secularist steering committee, we’re going to round up the Christians and put them in camps in a mere 40 years!

MUA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!

40 years? Did somebody move up the timetable again?

127 Pie-onist Overlord  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 11:51:49am

HURR HURR OBAMA CAN NEVER EVER LOOK LIKE THIS!!!11!!!!!

128 Kragar  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 11:51:59am
129 wrenchwench  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 11:52:07am

re: #119 Ian G.

It’s battered wife syndrome. WV doesn’t want to leave coal because it has nowhere else to go. “Aw no, officer, daddy coal didn’t mean to give me that black eye, and I really deserved it for making him so angry anyway.”

Until there’s something, anything to give West Virginia (and the rest of Appalachia) decent economic development opportunities, we’re going to be dealing with more incidents like this.

It’s an economic thing. It’s not ‘battered wife syndrome’. Poor analogy.

130 makeitstop  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 11:52:43am

Anybody want to Tweet this link to Bryan Fischer?

New Science Confirms Homophobic Men Have Intense Homosexual Impulses

Heh.

131 klys  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 11:52:47am

re: #127 Pie-onist Overlord

He looks like he’s doing his best not to crack up laughing.

132 BeenHereAwhile  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 11:53:19am

re: #42 Targetpractice

I preferred The Hunt for Red October myself.

Favorite Clancy novel - Red Storm Rising.

133 wrenchwench  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 11:54:08am

re: #130 makeitstop

Anybody want to Tweet this link to Bryan Fischer?

New Science Confirms Homophobic Men Have Intense Homosexual Impulses

Heh.

He’s allergic to science. But I think he’ll shut the office door and give that a close reading.

134 jaunte  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 11:54:20am

re: #127 Pie-onist Overlord

The Look of a Real Patriotic President

I don’t see a flag pin!

135 Targetpractice  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 11:54:40am

re: #132 BeenHereAwhile

Favorite Clancy novel - Red Storm Rising.

Yes, definitely. One of those novels that would be hard as hell to make into a film, even today.

136 Kragar  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 11:55:09am

re: #127 Pie-onist Overlord

HURR HURR OBAMA CAN NEVER EVER LOOK LIKE THIS!!!11!!!!!

[Embedded content]

137 Pie-onist Overlord  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 11:55:16am

HURR HURR

138 lawhawk  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 11:56:03am

re: #118 Kragar

I was going to go with “sad strange little man…”, but that works too.

139 dog philosopher  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 11:56:31am

one thing for sure:

americans are divided

140 Justanotherhuman  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 11:57:25am

Just because people know the word “whistleblower” doesn’t mean they know what it means.

There are a lot of people out there with a lot of information—that doesn’t make them intelligent.

141 Eclectic Cyborg  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 11:59:06am

re: #139 dog philosopher

one thing for sure:

americans are divided

Very much so, in multiple ways:

- Political lines
- Race lines
- Religious lines
- Regional lines

Kind of sad when you think about it.

142 lawhawk  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 11:59:36am

re: #137 Pie-onist Overlord

Yeah, walked into the hospital and promptly collapsed. Only after a more thorough investigation did doctors realize he’d been shot and was losing blood. That machismo may have nearly killed him.

Oh, and the NRA now opposes laws that it was supporting back then too.

143 makeitstop  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 11:59:38am

re: #137 Pie-onist Overlord

HURR HURR

[Embedded content]

California’s first gun control laws were instituted on St. Ronnie’s watch, IIRC.

144 Pie-onist Overlord  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 11:59:59am

U mean like during the Middle Ages & the Inquisition?

145 Kragar  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 12:00:30pm
146 Justanotherhuman  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 12:00:41pm

re: #137 Pie-onist Overlord

HURR HURR

[Embedded content]

So, I always thought that phrase was originated by Republicans.

After all, they’re the only ones who really want to be authoritarians, who would admire being “like a boss”.

147 Pie-onist Overlord  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 12:00:47pm

re: #142 lawhawk

Yeah, walked into the hospital and promptly collapsed. Only after a more thorough investigation did doctors realize he’d been shot and was losing blood. That machismo may have nearly killed him.

Oh and he totally supported Gun Control Legislation.

148 dog philosopher  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 12:01:15pm

re: #89 Joanne

I kept getting emails from Jane Hampster (sic) about how we had to defeat Obamacare because it wasn’t single payer. I really hate that moron.

I would prefer single payer. Most people I know would prefer it. But it not only wasn’t on the table, it wasn’t in the ballpark, the city or the county. Lieberman said he would not vote yes if it was.,,which means Obamacare would have failed.

No stopping rescissions.
No removal of preexisting conditions.
No kids on parents policies.
None of the things people like.

It must be nice to refuse to look at how other countries (like Canada) came to have single payer. It wasn’t a one-and-done. It started in one province and worked its way out.

I find people who wear rose colored glasses so annoying…especially those with a platform to spew such ignorance.

if it wasn’t for these firebaggers saying they want obamacare repealed because it doesn’t include the “public option” - apparently about 13% (!!) in polls - the wingnuts wouldn’t be able to cite majorities saying they are against obamacare

but anyway, the poll numbers, when they do include “repeal, doesn’t go far enough”, does give you a fair reading of the percentage of the country firmly to the left of obama

149 Pie-onist Overlord  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 12:01:25pm

re: #146 Justanotherhuman

So, I always thought that phrase was originated by Republicans.

After all, they’re the only ones who really want to be authoritarians, who would admire being “like a boss”.

Isn’t “Like A Boss” the same thing as “Like A Donald Trump”?

150 Dr Lizardo  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 12:01:46pm

re: #130 makeitstop

Anybody want to Tweet this link to Bryan Fischer?

New Science Confirms Homophobic Men Have Intense Homosexual Impulses

Heh.

Someone needs to post that on Free Republic, stat.

151 lawhawk  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 12:02:30pm

re: #144 Pie-onist Overlord

And if it doesn’t succeed, it’s because they weren’t sufficiently Christian or conservative.

But too bad, so sad if you happen to be Jewish (or other religious group).

152 Pie-onist Overlord  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 12:02:43pm

Looks like Dale just tweets a bunch of lame wingnut memes, the same as Prudence and Mike Andy.

153 Kragar  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 12:03:03pm

The original “Like a Boss”

Youtube Video

154 Targetpractice  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 12:03:17pm

re: #142 lawhawk

Yeah, walked into the hospital and promptly collapsed. Only after a more thorough investigation did doctors realize he’d been shot and was losing blood. That machismo may have nearly killed him.

And if he’d been taken to the White House, as originally planned, he’d probably have died before he arrived.

155 Pie-onist Overlord  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 12:04:07pm

HURR HURR

156 erik_t  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 12:04:25pm

re: #144 Pie-onist Overlord

U mean like during the Middle Ages & the Inquisition?

Bryan Fischer @BryanJFischer
Christianity, like conservatism, works every time it’s tried: via @youtube

Bryan Fischer’s Free Market Conservo-Jesus offends me on a strangely deep level, and I’m not even Christian.

What’s that Ghandi quote about Christians and Christ?

157 Pie-onist Overlord  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 12:04:43pm

The only difference between David Sirota and a bunch of right-wing teabaggers is the color of the font.

158 dog philosopher  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 12:04:52pm

rounding of Christians

i always knew they were too square, man

159 Kragar  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 12:05:45pm

re: #156 erik_t

Bryan Fischer’s Free Market Conservo-Jesus offends me on a strangely deep level, and I’m not even Christian.

What’s that Ghandi quote about Christians and Christ?

“I’ve got no problem with Jesus but his fan club is full of dicks.” - Gandhi.

I might not be 100% accurate with that one.

160 wrenchwench  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 12:05:56pm

re: #155 Pie-onist Overlord

HURR HURR

[Embedded content]

Most sickening response is from dudebros who preferred the status quo ante to millions of poors getting some coverage.

161 dog philosopher  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 12:06:12pm

re: #144 Pie-onist Overlord

Christianity, like conservatism, works every time it’s tried

trouble is, what jesus preached…

…never been tried

162 Targetpractice  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 12:06:23pm

re: #155 Pie-onist Overlord

HURR HURR

[Embedded content]

David, what would have been accomplished if the President had insisted on nothing short of single-payer? I’ll save you the time: Nothing positive. He likely would have failed to move enough votes in either house of Congress to pass it, he would have burned up valuable political capital on the effort, and we’d have nothing to show for it. There’s a very good possibility that, without passing the ACA, the man would have lost reelection due to how poor the economy was doing up until the last months of the election.

163 jaunte  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 12:06:42pm
Christianity, like conservatism, works every time it’s tried

Fischer should try it sometime.

164 wrenchwench  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 12:06:51pm

re: #156 erik_t

Bryan Fischer’s Free Market Conservo-Jesus offends me on a strangely deep level, and I’m not even Christian.

What’s that Ghandi Gandhi quote about Christians and Christ?

/pet peeve comes back to life….

165 erik_t  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 12:08:34pm

re: #164 wrenchwench

Preview Pencil Is My Friend But It Needs A Time Machine To Keep Me From Looking Like A Goddamned Moron doesn’t acronym-ize very well.

166 Pie-onist Overlord  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 12:08:48pm

During The Duke’s time, weren’t “Communists” in Hollywood actively suppressed?

167 William Barnett-Lewis  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 12:10:01pm

re: #137 Pie-onist Overlord

HURR HURR

[Embedded content]

He signed major Gun Control legislation in CA, signed the Firearm Owners Protection Act of 1986 which contained the Hughes Amendment & pushed for the passage of the Brady Bill. He accomplished more gun grabbing than Fienstein could dream of.

168 Kragar  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 12:10:05pm

re: #166 Pie-onist Overlord

During The Duke’s time, weren’t “Communists” in Hollywood actively suppressed?

[Embedded content]

“Life’s hard. It’s even harder when you’re stupid.”
― John Wayne

169 BeenHereAwhile  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 12:11:18pm

re: #73 jaunte

“I’ll never go grazing with Willie again.”

“I hopped on his old bus, the Honey Suckle Rose
The party was Vegas it was after the show.
Alone in the front lounge with just me and him,
With one parting puff grim creeper set in.

I’ll never smoke weed with Willie again”

Toby Keith

170 wrenchwench  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 12:11:19pm

re: #165 erik_t

Preview Pencil Is My Friend But It Needs A Time Machine To Keep Me From Looking Like A Goddamned Moron doesn’t acronym-ize very well.

That’s OK, you roped Kragar in to look like a goddamned moron with you. : )

171 dog philosopher  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 12:12:22pm

trying to think of what chrisitianity “working” is supposed to mean…

172 erik_t  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 12:12:55pm

re: #170 wrenchwench

That’s OK, you roped Kragar in to look like a goddamned moron with you. : )

Only Imperial Stormtroopers are so precise.

173 wrenchwench  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 12:15:42pm

Oh look. Ex-lizard turned stalker is a Benghidiot.

174 Kragar  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 12:16:37pm

re: #170 wrenchwench

That’s OK, you roped Kragar in to look like a goddamned moron with you. : )

Nope, didn’t happen. LALALALA

175 wrenchwench  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 12:18:14pm

re: #174 Kragar

Nope, didn’t happen. LALALALA

DAMMIT! Next time I’ll quote you first….

176 erik_t  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 12:18:57pm

re: #173 wrenchwench

I still don’t understand the allegation. Presumably Obama and Clinton were staring at OMFG DRONEZZZZ FLIR feed, the Big Red Telephone ringing off the hook, twirling their mustaches and cackling maniacally.

MUAHAHA WE ARE LEAVING THEM TO DIE, LOOK AT HOW STUPENDOUSLY EVILLLL WE ARE

Of course, most of these dipshits think that there is a fleet of ten million black helecopters flying barrels of chemtrail-juice up to HAARP and that the NSA listens to their grandmother’s calls about turkey stuffing recipe, so maybe they have slightly exaggerated imaginations about what the government can and cannot do at a moment’s notice.

177 Justanotherhuman  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 12:21:39pm

Apple will refund at least $32.5M in app case

bigstory.ap.org

WASHINGTON (AP) — Apple will refund at least $32.5 million to consumers to settle a federal case involving purchases that kids made without their parents’ permission while playing on mobile apps, the government announced Wednesday.

(snip)

“Apple will have to change its billing practices to make it more obvious that an actual purchase is taking place during the course of the game or app.

(snip)

“Edith Ramirez, the agency’s head, said the settlement involves mobile apps and charges racked up when kids bought things such as virtual currency or dragon food. In some cases, Ramirez said, charges ran into the hundreds and even thousands of dollars.”

178 Kragar  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 12:22:46pm


As Beck sees it, mandating that citizens purchase health insurance is essentially requiring “tithing to their church; the church of man, the church of Washington, DC.”

“They are making you pay tithing,” Beck said, “and bow down to that God and if not, you are an illegal citizens. That is what they were talking about with the separation of church and state. You are not forced into any man’s belief. That’s the difference. And here we have a group of people, these fascists - let’s start calling these progressives what they are: they are fascists”:

179 blueraven  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 12:23:40pm

re: #107 BusyMonster

@Kragar again — this new technology is making covering up one’s dirty business difficult.

I wonder how many other pictures of thick yellow water coming out of West Virginia will combine to make a very pretty collage of poison and incompetence?

When you use that @ Kragar handle it links to a private twitter account. (Not our Kragar)
Does your “reply” button not work?

180 Dr Lizardo  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 12:23:52pm

re: #178 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Glenn, let me say this to you:

181 lawhawk  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 12:23:59pm

re: #173 wrenchwench

The allegation is that they didn’t do anything, ignoring the reality that there was nothing that could be done in a time frame to save the Ambassador or staffers. Only assets that were available in short order were unarmed UAVs, which orbited the site.

Only after Benghazi did the DoD organize a rapid response force to address diplomatic security breaches.

That’s after decades where diplomats were targeted and for which the DoD provided no option other than security details already at those facilities.

Congress cut State Department security budget, but somehow this is on Obama?

Cognitive dissonance applies to the JWF and others who think the President did nothing - or worse - chose not to do anything. And that’s really what they’re getting at. They think that the President had options, but did nothing.

182 Targetpractice  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 12:24:26pm

re: #178 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Glenn, for that analogy to work, the “tithing” going to the church would be so that the church could provide us care, i.e. single-payer. Your analogy runs aground when the “tithing” is going to the same private industry jackholes it was going to before the passage of the ACA.

183 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 12:25:32pm

re: #127 Pie-onist Overlord

HURR HURR OBAMA CAN NEVER EVER LOOK LIKE THIS!!!11!!!!!

[Embedded content]

184 Decatur Deb  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 12:26:48pm

re: #136 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Prez Obama throws a much better salute. Obviously spent a few minutes working on it with a Sergeant Major.

185 Pie-onist Overlord  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 12:27:24pm

It really sucks when I am following some liberals on Twitter, and ReTweet their stuff all the time, and we are all like friends & cool, and then all of a sudden they Tweet some anti-Israel shit from electronicintifada.

186 wrenchwench  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 12:27:27pm

That JWF tweet was retweeted by Adam Serwer, who then tweeted this:

187 Justanotherhuman  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 12:27:29pm

re: #178 Kragar

[Embedded content]

It figures that Beck thinks people don’t know the difference between religion and government, and sadly, some buy into his rhetoric.

He’s one of the best arguments for more comprehensive education.

188 Pie-onist Overlord  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 12:28:00pm

re: #183 Dark_Falcon

[Embedded content]

OBAMA CAN NEVER SALUTE TEH FLAG WHILE BEING A WHITE MAN!!!!11!!!!!

189 wrenchwench  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 12:28:10pm

re: #185 Pie-onist Overlord

It really sucks when I am following some liberals on Twitter, and ReTweet their stuff all the time, and we are all like friends & cool, and then all of a sudden they Tweet some anti-Israel shit from electronicintifada.

Ever found an educable one?

190 Targetpractice  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 12:29:17pm

re: #181 lawhawk

It’s an article of faith, it’s dogma, and that of course means that they don’t feel that have to provide proof in order for it to be true. They spent months going down every blind ally they could find to justify their belief that there was “something” that could be done. Told themselves there was gunships in the area that could have rendered assistance, or jets that were nearby could have been flown overhead to scare the crowd away, or that a laser dot from a UAV which is invisible to the naked eye would have scared away the guys running the mortars.

Anything but the reality that the military does not have transporters and sometimes, help is too far away to be of any use.

191 erik_t  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 12:29:36pm

re: #178 Kragar

@RightWingWatch
Glenn Beck says Obamacare is a religion and thus a violation of the separation of church & state … and also fascist bit.ly

I believe in Obamacare,
destroyer of the version of the Constitution that exists exclusively in my head,
Enslaver of wingnut and dudebro
and in the IRS, its only enforcer and power
Which was conceived by Lincoln
Born of the Civil War
Suffered in a Cleveland cubicle farm
Was crucified on Fox News
And decended into Morning Joe
On the third weekend, they got bored
IRS ascended to the Treasury
And is seated at the right hand of the Kenyo-Marxist Usurper
From there it will come to levy a fee or something
I believe in health insurance
Taking care of poor people
(even the blackity black ones)
Communist breadlines
Death panels
The end of the free market
and libtard administrations everlasting. Amen.

192 Flying Squirrel Girl  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 12:35:45pm

re: #190 Targetpractice

The biggest outrage of all is the nutjobs think if Obama had used the “T” word when it happened, he never would have gotten re-elected because it would have proven that terrorists ain’t skeered of him. Or something like that.

Add to that they think if they can just keep screaming “Benghazi!” over and over again until 2016 that will keep Hilary from running, or make her unelectable.

193 Kragar  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 12:37:06pm

re: #192 Flying Squirrel Girl

The biggest outrage of all is the nutjobs think if Obama had used the “T” word when it happened, he never would have gotten re-elected because it would have proven that terrorists ain’t skeered of him. Or something like that.

Add to that they think if they can just keep screaming “Benghazi!” over and over again until 2016 that will keep Hilary from running, or make her unelectable.

Or that Hillary is the only possible opponent they’ll be facing in 2016

194 klys  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 12:38:01pm

re: #193 Kragar

Or that Hillary is the only possible opponent they’ll be facing in 2016

I mean, it’s not like she was the clear choice in 2006 or anything.

///

195 Kragar  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 12:39:57pm
196 Kragar  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 12:43:11pm
197 wrenchwench  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 12:44:43pm
198 Targetpractice  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 12:47:10pm

re: #192 Flying Squirrel Girl

The biggest outrage of all is the nutjobs think if Obama had used the “T” word when it happened, he never would have gotten re-elected because it would have proven that terrorists ain’t skeered of him. Or something like that.

Add to that they think if they can just keep screaming “Benghazi!” over and over again until 2016 that will keep Hilary from running, or make her unelectable.

That goes to another article of faith for them, that they win elections where they presents themselves as the ones focused on “national security.” Remember, these are people who think that what won Reagan the election was that the Iranians were afraid of him and that, on the first day he stepped into office, he called up Tehran and told them in his best gruff guy voice to hand over the hostages or he’d bomb them into the stone age. And so they go into every election trying to get that lightning to strike twice, to project themselves as the people who our enemies are “afraid” of, which is supposed to be a sign of strength.

So to them, it just makes utter sense that the President not calling it a terrorist attack was a political call, that he knew he’d lose the election if it looked like Al-Q had not been squashed and the death of OBL had not ended the threat they posed. Of course when you consider that they themselves shifted gears without a clutch to go from “We must get Bin Ladin!” to “Bin Ladin’s not that important to the war!,” it’s easy to understand why nobody takes such a belief seriously.

199 BeenHereAwhile  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 12:48:50pm

re: #80 Targetpractice

Hell, the public option died a very slow, public death when Joe “Senator from Allstate” Lieberman declared that he’d join the GOP filibuster unless it was excised from the bill and never spoken of again.

Ironically Ted Kennedy played a major role in all three presidential attempts to pass universal health care.

He blocked Nixon’s attempt because he didn’t think it went far enough.

He blocked Carter’s attempt because he didn’t want Carter to get the credit as Kennedy was positioning himself for the Democratic Presidential primary.

He died before being able to vote for Obama’s ACA, thus creating the need for further dithering and modifications to the act to molify some Senate votes needed which were on the fence.

200 dog philosopher  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 12:49:25pm

so far, we are already fighting out 2016 in a proxy war between benghazi and bridgegate…

201 dog philosopher  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 12:51:07pm

re: #80 Targetpractice

Hell, the public option died a very slow, public death when Joe “Senator from Allstate” Lieberman declared that he’d join the GOP filibuster unless it was excised from the bill and never spoken of again.

some wingnuts have theorized that obamacare as passed is designed to fail and therefore make it necessary to pass universal medicare

works for me

202 Decatur Deb  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 12:52:05pm

re: #201 dog philosopher

some wingnuts have theorized that obamacare as passed is designed to fail and therefore make it necessary to pass universal medicare

works for me

Yup. The path to single payer is to make sure ACA works as well as it can.

203 erik_t  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 12:52:21pm

re: #201 dog philosopher

some wingnuts have theorized that obamacare as passed is designed to fail and therefore make it necessary to pass universal medicare

works for me

MUAHAHAHAHA

Eleven dimensions of chess or whatever!

204 Targetpractice  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 12:52:41pm

re: #201 dog philosopher

some wingnuts have theorized that obamacare as passed is designed to fail and therefore make it necessary to pass universal medicare

works for me

Yeah, I mentioned that upthread. Apparently in wingnut minds, the ACA is a grand conspiracy to bankrupt the private insurance industry and cause its downfall, thus leaving America no choice but to adopt single-payer, which was the President’s grand plan all along. Apparently he took lessons on how to play the long game from Darth Sidious.

206 Kragar  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 12:57:23pm

re: #205 Charles Johnson

Fifty Shades of Archie and Betty (or, Betty gets kinky)

She got tired of him beating off other guys.

207 RealityBasedSteve  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 12:58:31pm

re: #204 Targetpractice

Yeah, I mentioned that upthread. Apparently in wingnut minds, the ACA is a grand conspiracy to bankrupt the private insurance industry and cause its downfall, thus leaving America no choice but to adopt single-payer, which was the President’s grand plan all along. Apparently he took lessons on how to play the long game from Darth Sidious.

and by forcing heathly young people (who are going to have the lowest rates of claims) into the system you make sure that the insurance companies are in a good place financially.

When I keep reading on the RWNJs sites things like “I’ll NEVER have Obamacare”, I really think that some of these people truely believe that the exchanges are the ONLY way to purchase (or obtain) insurance.

RBS

208 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 12:58:51pm

Notice how all the other girls are totally into it.

209 Mattand  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 12:59:55pm

re: #208 Charles Johnson

Notice how all the other girls are totally into it.

I’m convinced they’re all clones of the girl in the foreground.

210 Kragar  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 1:00:17pm

re: #208 Charles Johnson

Notice how all the other girls are totally into it.

I think they’re going to ask Betty what else she can get Archie to do.

211 Dr Lizardo  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 1:02:05pm

re: #205 Charles Johnson

Fifty Shades of Archie and Betty (or, Betty gets kinky)

I always imagined it would be Veronica who’d be the one to let her freak flag fly.

212 Kragar  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 1:02:54pm

re: #211 Dr Lizardo

I always imagined it would be Veronica who’d be the one to let her freak flag fly.

Erotic is handcuffs, kinky is the full body harness.

213 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 1:03:23pm

MLK and Anne Frank were born in the same year.

214 Dr Lizardo  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 1:03:47pm

re: #212 Kragar

Erotic is handcuffs, kinky is the full body harness.

Or as I heard it, “A feather is erotic - the whole chicken is kinky.”

215 Kragar  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 1:05:25pm
216 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 1:05:33pm

re: #196 Kragar

[Embedded content]

David Sirota lives in Dudebro Never-Never Land. This differs from Never-Never land as Peter Pan at least understood he had a real enemy in Captain Hook and Pan knew he couldn’t push the Indians too far. By contrast, Sirota lives in a fact-free world where he thinks he’s always right and all those in power have to do is say the right thing in the right way and everything will magically work itself out right. Except of course for a handful of villains who will at that point lose all power.

This view resembles nothing so much as a poor-quality children’s cartoon.

217 Targetpractice  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 1:06:01pm

re: #207 RealityBasedSteve

and by forcing heathly young people (who are going to have the lowest rates of claims) into the system you make sure that the insurance companies are in a good place financially.

When I keep reading on the RWNJs sites things like “I’ll NEVER have Obamacare”, I really think that some of these people truely believe that the exchanges are the ONLY way to purchase (or obtain) insurance.

RBS

Yeah, there’s only two options: Pay the fine or purchase a qualifying policy. Scratch that, three options, but I’m not sure that most are willing to go to jail for refusal to pay the fine.

218 Eclectic Cyborg  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 1:06:56pm

re: #144 Pie-onist Overlord

You may want to ask the Catholic Church about that whole “Christianity always works” thing, Bryan.

219 jaunte  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 1:08:10pm

re: #209 Mattand

I’m convinced they’re all clones of the girl in the foreground.

They all have that weird nose-tab thing.

220 Backwoods_Sleuth  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 1:10:48pm

221 RealityBasedSteve  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 1:11:17pm

re: #217 Targetpractice

Yeah, there’s only two options: Pay the fine or purchase a qualifying policy. Scratch that, three options, but I’m not sure that most are willing to go to jail for refusal to pay the fine.

I’ve seen a number of keyboard commandos swearing that they would go to jail before they would be purchasing “obamacare”. They also then go off on tangents like micro-coloidal silver and Oregano Oil. Both of which are know to be effective in the case of, lets say, an automobile accident.

RBS

222 makeitstop  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 1:14:22pm

re: #221 RealityBasedSteve

I’ve seen a number of keyboard commandos swearing that they would go to jail before they would be purchasing “obamacare”. They also then go off on tangents like micro-coloidal silver and Oregano Oil. Both of which are know to be effective in the case of, lets say, an automobile accident.

RBS

Coloidal silver just makes me blue.

223 erik_t  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 1:14:25pm

re: #220 Backwoods_Sleuth

He’s got a kind of a Spock thing going.

224 erik_t  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 1:15:19pm

re: #221 RealityBasedSteve

I’ve seen a number of keyboard commandos swearing that they would go to jail before they would be purchasing “obamacare”.

I completely believe them.

Also, whathisname washed up rock turd is either dead or in jail, right?

225 Backwoods_Sleuth  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 1:15:53pm

re: #223 erik_t

He’s got a kind of a Spock thing going.

he does!

226 calochortus  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 1:18:13pm

re: #207 RealityBasedSteve

and by forcing heathly young people (who are going to have the lowest rates of claims) into the system you make sure that the insurance companies are in a good place financially.

When I keep reading on the RWNJs sites things like “I’ll NEVER have Obamacare”, I really think that some of these people truely believe that the exchanges are the ONLY way to purchase (or obtain) insurance.

RBS

A week or two ago there was someone on FR looking for advice for a friend who didn’t want “ObamaCare” so she had gotten a policy on her own (since this had to have been last year, she couldn’t have actually used an ObamaCare policy anyway…) She needed medical care because of an infection and after surgery the carrier refused to pay because of a pre-existing condition. What should she do?

The advice ranged from lawyer-up (I thought conservatives didn’t want lawyers involved in medicine?) to she should have found a charity hospital (pointless since she thought she was insured and was probably not a charity case anyway.) Not one person mentioned that she a.) wouldn’t have this problem now with ObamaCare. And b.) “ObamaCare” is just private insurance that meets certain standards.

Sigh.

227 GunstarGreen  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 1:20:42pm

re: #96 HappyWarrior

And I think that shows you everything wrong about conservatism in our country that a pig that calls women who want contraception coverage sluts, teenage girls dogs, etc is admired at all. Number nine in the whole country? Are you fucking kidding me. I admire Bill O’Reilly more than that pos since at least O’Reilly isn’t always a pathetic hateful piece of shit.

There’s no qualifier needed, either. He really is admired by a very large chunk of the nation as a whole, not just wingnuts. And it’s very important to remember that, to remember that it’s not qualified. Because it’s an indicator of how thoroughly sick and degenerate our society is. That a man like Pillbaugh not only makes millions of dollars a year sitting on his ass spewing trash for three hours a day (and having the gall to deride ‘moochers’ while he’s at it), but that he is actually admired. People aspire to be like him. A VERY large chunk of this country looks at that bloated sack of human filth, and not only are they NOT disgusted by his behavior, they ENCOURAGE it.

Remember this the next time someone tries to feed you a line about ‘American Exceptionalism’.

228 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 1:26:52pm

re: #221 RealityBasedSteve

I’ve seen a number of keyboard commandos swearing that they would go to jail before they would be purchasing “obamacare”. They also then go off on tangents like micro-coloidal silver and Oregano Oil. Both of which are know to be effective in the case of, lets say, an automobile accident.

RBS

They’re just posturing. Posers like that don’t have the guts to say ‘Boo!’ to the IRS.

229 RealityBasedSteve  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 1:27:38pm

re: #227 GunstarGreen

There’s no qualifier needed, either. He really is admired by a very large chunk of the nation as a whole, not just wingnuts. And it’s very important to remember that, to remember that it’s not qualified. Because it’s an indicator of how thoroughly sick and degenerate our society is. That a man like Pillbaugh not only makes millions of dollars a year sitting on his ass spewing trash for three hours a day (and having the gall to deride ‘moochers’ while he’s at it), but that he is actually admired. People aspire to be like him. A VERY large chunk of this country looks at that bloated sack of human filth, and not only are they NOT disgusted by his behavior, they ENCOURAGE it.

Remember this the next time someone tries to feed you a line about ‘American Exceptionalism’.

I remember a talk show host I used to listen to in Washington State, Mike Segal. He was a center to center-right politically, but always very fair to other opinions, had even heard him change as opinion over time as he considered a matter.

Lost track of him, next time I heard him he was syndicated as Mike Segal - Hot Talk Radio!!!!” and was just as vile and bombastic as any of the rest of that ilk.

Problem is, extreme sells.

RBS

230 Justanotherhuman  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 1:28:04pm

Of course it did.

New Mexico State Police Chief Pete Kassetas says shotgun belonged to middle school shooting suspect’s parents - live video
end of bulletin

Start charging the parents for not securing their weapons, and we won’t hear as much of this kind of shit.

After all, you’re responsible for your kids until they’re 18, or they emancipate themselves.

231 EPR-radar  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 1:30:04pm

re: #227 GunstarGreen

America really is exceptional.

I’m not aware of any other developed nation where a major party is collectively both insane and evil.

232 erik_t  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 1:31:19pm

re: #231 EPR-radar

America really is exceptional.

I’m not aware of any other developed nation where a major party is collectively both insane and evil.

Does the British National Party count as “major”?

233 leftynyc  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 1:31:56pm

re: #185 Pie-onist Overlord

It really sucks when I am following some liberals on Twitter, and ReTweet their stuff all the time, and we are all like friends & cool, and then all of a sudden they Tweet some anti-Israel shit from electronicintifada.

That very thing has driven me off around a dozen progressive boards.

234 Decatur Deb  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 1:32:01pm

Has someone done this interactive ACA map from TPM?

MAP: Obamacare’s December Enrollment Surge

talkingpointsmemo.com

235 calochortus  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 1:32:21pm

re: #221 RealityBasedSteve

I’ve seen a number of keyboard commandos swearing that they would go to jail before they would be purchasing “obamacare”. They also then go off on tangents like micro-coloidal silver and Oregano Oil. Both of which are know to be effective in the case of, lets say, an automobile accident.

RBS

They are probably on Medicare anyway.

236 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 1:32:21pm

re: #230 Justanotherhuman

Of course it did.

New Mexico State Police Chief Pete Kassetas says shotgun belonged to middle school shooting suspect’s parents - live video
end of bulletin

Start charging the parents for not securing their weapons, and we won’t hear as much of this kind of shit.

After all, you’re responsible for your kids until they’re 18, or they emancipate themselves.

Let’s find out if it was secured first, before we file charges. If it was in a locked safe and the kid stole the key then that likely would argue against charging them. The question should be “did the parents take reasonable action to secure their guns?”

This all assumes such charges are possible under New Mexico law.

237 Lidane  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 1:33:01pm

re: #216 Dark_Falcon

David Sirota lives in Dudebro Never-Never Land. This differs from Never-Never land as Peter Pan at least understood he had a real enemy in Captain Hook and Pan knew he couldn’t push the Indians too far.

If you think about it, Peter Pan is a much better villain than Hook in the story.

238 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 1:34:58pm

re: #232 erik_t

Does the British National Party count as “major”?

No, not anymore. The notably less-evil UK Independence Party (UKIP) stole most of the BNP’s thunder.

239 Kragar  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 1:35:21pm
240 leftynyc  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 1:35:25pm

re: #189 wrenchwench

Ever found an educable one?

Can’t speak for PO but me and a group of others tried to do that very thing right here:

dailykos.com

It had an excellent response and I don’t think any diary ever got that many responses before but it only lasted a couple of months. Now I may post there a couple of times a month and leave anything concerning Israel alone - I don’t need the heartburn and have told most of those signers of the letter about LGF.

241 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 1:35:44pm

re: #237 Lidane

If you think about it, Peter Pan is a much better villain than Hook in the story.

I’ve never heard that argument before. Please proceed.

242 EPR-radar  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 1:36:24pm

re: #232 erik_t

Does the British National Party count as “major”?

AFAIK, the BNP has no seats in parliament and never has had any. Hard to see how they could be ‘major’ with that performance.

243 Dr. Matt  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 1:36:28pm

Amusing. The first pic that shows up when googling “David Sirota dudebro”:

244 darthstar  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 1:36:55pm

re: #239 Kragar

You should have said “went to pot”.

245 darthstar  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 1:38:45pm
246 RealityBasedSteve  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 1:38:48pm

re: #243 Dr. Matt

Amusing. The first pic that shows up when googling “David Sirota dudebro”:

[Embedded image]

isn’t that Gus’s avitar?

RBS

247 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 1:39:20pm

re: #243 Dr. Matt

Amusing. The first pic that shows up when googling “David Sirota dudebro”:

[Embedded image]

Gus, For The Win.

248 Backwoods_Sleuth  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 1:39:46pm

Anyone who enjoyed Jim Wright’s vacation air travel nightmare post at Stonekettle Station will also enjoy his FB post about what he has since heard from his trolls:

facebook.com

249 Dr. Matt  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 1:40:23pm

re: #246 RealityBasedSteve

isn’t that Gus’s avitar?

RBS

Yup

Gus is the original David Sirota dudebro critic.

250 dog philosopher  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 1:40:35pm

re: #205 Charles Johnson

Fifty Shades of Archie and Betty (or, Betty gets kinky)

the cartoonists here are already having a little trouble dealing with the fact that it’s no longer the 50s

archie himself never made the transition to the late, or even mid 60s…

251 lawhawk  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 1:42:09pm

re: #234 Decatur Deb

People who are complaining that young folks aren’t signing up and are quipping that only 23% of the enrollees are in the young age cohort seem to willingly ignore that the desirable age cohort is about 23% of the overall population.

In other words, they’re signing up in proportion to their presence in the general population. They aren’t shunning ACA.

thelundreport.org

252 Eclectic Cyborg  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 1:44:59pm

re: #223 erik_t

He’s got a kind of a Spock thing going.

Fascinating.

/

253 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 1:45:02pm

re: #248 Backwoods_Sleuth

Anyone who enjoyed Jim Wright’s vacation air travel nightmare post at Stonekettle Station will also enjoy his FB post about what he has since heard from his trolls:

facebook.com

The wingnut hatred can be brushed aside, but he should be worried about the people calling him a racist. That sort of charge can stick and have real-life repercussions even if it isn’t actually true.

254 Kragar  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 1:47:24pm

re: #252 Eclectic Cyborg

Fascinating.

/

Shouldn’t that be _ /?

255 Backwoods_Sleuth  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 1:47:52pm

re: #253 Dark_Falcon

The wingnut hatred can be brushed aside, but he should be worried about the people calling him a racist. That sort of charge can stick and have real-life repercussions even if it isn’t actually true.

Not going to stick to Jim at all.
At. All. Ever.

256 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 1:48:40pm

I’ve basicly stayed off the radar on here while the entire Snowden madness has been going on. Mostly for my own sanity and because I don’t have time to explain nuances. Snowden isn’t purely a traitor, he isn’t purely a whistleblower, He has an idea and an ideal which happens to intersect with him being the white knight saving America. That’s no different than anyone else who has published questionable activity by the US government.

What he didn’t realize was, that a large chunk of America doesn’t want to be saved. Too many people have bought into the security theater after 9/11 and have willingly given into restrictions that would have been unthinkable 15 years ago. Free Speech Zones? Check.

If people feel the examination of email and text messages, even metadata is perfectly ok, then it should also be ok if the Government were to record the destination and arrival of every package, letter, bill sent. Honestly, the only thing that’s prevented the government from trying such a stunt is because it had been technologically unfeasible. We have the technology to track cell phones. why not put that in a database, if they promise to only use it to stop all the terrorists lurking to kill everyone.

I know I’m in the minority here, but I think that the fear campaign after 9//1 was over the top to start with, and has only become more insane as the years have dragged on.

Let me be clear, I don’t think that the NSA engaged in any abuse of the data they’ve collected (beyond the fact they’re collecting it). But If there’s one thing I’ve learned. When someone has a tool. They’re going to use it. and if the tools for data collection, and the data collected, remain available, then the scope of usage will expand and mutate into something much darker and much worse.

I don’t think you can develop safeguards to stop the abuse, not when everything is confidential and there is no one to watch the watchmen. If there were, then *maybe* you could justify it on a compelling national interest. but not in it’s current iteration.

257 Justanotherhuman  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 1:48:55pm

re: #253 Dark_Falcon

The wingnut hatred can be brushed aside, but he should be worried about the people calling him a racist. That sort of charge can stick and have real-life repercussions even if it isn’t actually true.

Not to mention the emasculating use of “entitled bitch”.

258 Lidane  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 1:49:00pm

re: #241 Dark_Falcon

I’ve never heard that argument before. Please proceed.

You mean aside from the fact that he’s selfish, self-centered and doesn’t care about anyone else or who he hurts? He “thins out” the Lost Boys when they start to grow up or when there’s too many of them. He cut off Hook’s hand and fed it to a crocodile, which the croc liked so much he started chasing Hook around. When the Darling children decide to return home to grow up, he tries to bar the windows so they can’t go home and they’d be forced to stay with him.

It’s not that hard to turn Peter Pan into the villain of the story. Take Hook out of the equation, since he’s there as a foil for Peter. If he wasn’t there, who would be the antagonist?

259 Kragar  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 1:49:17pm

My boss is wondering why when he assigned twice as many people to do half as much work when everything was still prepped from when I did it the first time, a job got done faster.

So fucking tired of this bullshit.

260 Backwoods_Sleuth  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 1:49:24pm

re: #257 Justanotherhuman

Not to mention the emasculating use of “entitled bitch”.

“entitled bitch” was my favorite part and, I suspect, Jim’s as well.

261 Dr. Matt  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 1:49:44pm

No evidence of photoshop…..Fat A-Rod:

Priceless.

262 Eclectic Cyborg  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 1:51:16pm

Car repair shop to owner of BMW wrecked by employee: ‘It’s not our problem’

It sounds too awful to be true, but it is: A man who brought in a BMW to a repair shop for some minor work ended up with a wrecked car instead, after an employee admitted to taking it out for a joyride and wrecking it. And apparently, that is totally legal.

The customer is out one vehicle after the incident, but it appears all he can do is sue the repair shop, reports WESH.com in Orlando. Police confirmed that the worker was driving the car and was involved in not one, but two accidents in the wee hours of January 8.

The car was towed by another company, whose owner called up the repair shop to see what the heck had happened.

“He proceeds to tell me that it wasn’t the owner but one of his employees that wrecked it,” the tow company owner said.

But unfortunately for the car’s owner, it’s not against the law for an employee to drive a customer’s car, the cops say. And the repair shop apparently told the owner “Not our problem.”

263 Eclectic Cyborg  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 1:51:51pm

re: #259 Kragar

My boss is wondering why when he assigned twice as many people to do half as much work when everything was still prepped from when I did it the first time, a job got done faster.

So fucking tired of this bullshit.

Sounds like you need a new boss. :P

264 erik_t  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 1:52:08pm

re: #256 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All

I know I’m in the minority here, but I think that the fear campaign after 9//1 was over the top to start with, and has only become more insane as the years have dragged on.

That’s absolutely false; many (if not most) regular posters have expressed exactly the same feeling.

Let me be clear, I don’t think that the NSA engaged in any abuse of the data they’ve collected (beyond the fact they’re collecting it). But If there’s one thing I’ve learned. When someone has a tool. They’re going to use it. and if the tools for data collection, and the data collected, remain available, then the scope of usage will expand and mutate into something much darker and much worse.

How would you remove this capability, other than forbidding its use? What would that even mean, exactly? The un-invention of the database?

265 Kragar  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 1:52:15pm

re: #263 Eclectic Cyborg

Sounds like you need a new boss. :P

I’ve been looking.

266 Romantic Heretic  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 1:54:42pm

re: #39 lawhawk

Executive Orders? He’s never heard of Executive Orders? How is that possible?

Executive Orders by Tom Clancy. Best Seller.

Got a copy of that. It is a pretty good book, if a little farfetched.

I preferred The Enemy Within by Larry Bond. Mr. Bond considered Sun Tzu’s wisdom, “So it is that an army avoids strength and attacks weakness.” So the antagonist in the book struck at America where it is weakest.

Essentially what the Tea Party is doing now.

267 Dr. Matt  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 1:55:22pm

re: #262 Eclectic Cyborg

Car repair shop to owner of BMW wrecked by employee: ‘It’s not our problem’

Ugh. More idiocy from Flori-Duh. Please go away.

268 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 1:55:29pm

re: #264 erik_t

That’s absolutely false; many (if not most) regular posters have expressed exactly the same feeling.

We may have to agree to disagree, I’m thinking of Around the time of the Charles grand reformation and prior. So if i painted too broad a brush, sorry bout that.

How would you remove this capability, other than forbidding its use? What would that even mean, exactly? The un-invention of the database?

That’s the problem, there is no way to stop the collection other than to prevent it in the first place. which won’t matter, because, they’ll collect it anyway and tell us it’s for our own good.

269 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 1:56:42pm

re: #257 Justanotherhuman

Not to mention the emasculating use of “entitled bitch”.

That’s just DERP being flung. You can’t get sued for being entitled, and its pretty clear he’s not. But hostility to a someone over their poor language skills can be used against you, if someone is of a mind to do so.

270 darthstar  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 1:57:06pm

re: #264 erik_t

The un-invention of the database?

I’ve got a great idea for a mass storage device that is secure, and impervious to unauthorized snooping.

I’m gonna be rich, rich! I tell ya.

271 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 1:57:20pm

so, what’s been going on the last 6 months everyone? Any marriages? any new awesome jobs for people? Sorry I’ve been out of the loop, school will do that to you.

272 Dr Lizardo  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 1:57:23pm

re: #267 Dr. Matt

Ugh. More idiocy from Flori-Duh. Please go away.

273 darthstar  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 1:59:03pm
274 erik_t  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 1:59:08pm

re: #268 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All

That’s the problem, there is no way to stop the collection other than to prevent it in the first place. which won’t matter, because, they’ll collect it anyway and tell us it’s for our own good.

Forgive me if I’m missing something, but are you suggesting a course of action or policy or a useful prescription or new way to do business, or are you merely expressing a lament?

I read all of that as “high-speed digital computers have been invented and networked”, and my response is “…Okay?”.

If you merely intend to lament, that’s fine. Laments are totally okay.

275 Backwoods_Sleuth  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 1:59:51pm

re: #271 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All

so, what’s been going on the last 6 months everyone? Any marriages? any new awesome jobs for people? Sorry I’ve been out of the loop, school will do that to you.

VB has had a bumper crop of grandbaby overloads.

276 Justanotherhuman  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:00:02pm

re: #256 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All

I’ve basicly stayed off the radar on here while the entire Snowden madness has been going on. Mostly for my own sanity and because I don’t have time to explain nuances. Snowden isn’t purely a traitor, he isn’t purely a whistleblower, He has an idea and an ideal which happens to intersect with him being the white knight saving America. That’s no different than anyone else who has published questionable activity by the US government.

What he didn’t realize was, that a large chunk of America doesn’t want to be saved. Too many people have bought into the security theater after 9/11 and have willingly given into restrictions that would have been unthinkable 15 years ago. Free Speech Zones? Check.

If people feel the examination of email and text messages, even metadata is perfectly ok, then it should also be ok if the Government were to record the destination and arrival of every package, letter, bill sent. Honestly, the only thing that’s prevented the government from trying such a stunt is because it had been technologically unfeasible. We have the technology to track cell phones. why not put that in a database, if they promise to only use it to stop all the terrorists lurking to kill everyone.

I know I’m in the minority here, but I think that the fear campaign after 9//1 was over the top to start with, and has only become more insane as the years have dragged on.

Let me be clear, I don’t think that the NSA engaged in any abuse of the data they’ve collected (beyond the fact they’re collecting it). But If there’s one thing I’ve learned. When someone has a tool. They’re going to use it. and if the tools for data collection, and the data collected, remain available, then the scope of usage will expand and mutate into something much darker and much worse.

I don’t think you can develop safeguards to stop the abuse, not when everything is confidential and there is no one to watch the watchmen. If there were, then *maybe* you could justify it on a compelling national interest. but not in it’s current iteration.

First of all, what the NSA is doing is not illegal. It was authorized by Congress, and it’s not up to Edward Snowden, or any other individual, to make decisions that affect the entire country.

Yes, some things could be changed. But just as no one expected 9/11, no one will “expect” the next event that will happen in this country except perhaps, given the right tools, those who are charged with the task of looking for them. Snowden has done perhaps irreparable harm, or at least damaged trust, to foreign relations. He has exposed methods used by the NSA to the entire world and has made the job of protecting this democratic republic even harder.

Not everything a govt does, any govt, can be as “transparent” as anyone might want it. Not Snowden, not Greenwald, nor any of those who agree with them. That is an ideal that will never be achieved as long as there is emnity in the world amongst its inhabitants.

We have free speech. That is what should be used to criticize, to change laws, to make our society better, not criminal activities such as Snowden engaged in.

277 RealityBasedSteve  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:00:04pm

re: #262 Eclectic Cyborg

Car repair shop to owner of BMW wrecked by employee: ‘It’s not our problem’

I would imagine that a shop would carry insurance for something like that, damage to a vehicle in for repair, but if the vehicle was being driven after hours for something not related to the repairs, I can easily see the insurance company saying “It’s not OUR problem”, but it IS the repair shop’s problem for sure.

RBS

278 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:01:45pm

re: #274 erik_t

Forgive me if I’m missing something, but are you suggesting a course of action or policy or a useful prescription or new way to do business, or are you merely expressing a lament?

I read all of that as “high-speed digital computers have been invented and networked”, and my response is “…Okay?”.

If you merely intend to lament, that’s fine. Laments are totally okay.

there might be an answer, I hope there is a way to manage things, I’m just too tired to think of anything, so it’s more of a depressed lament. or maybe that’s just how I feel right now. Heh.

I’m honestly not even sure I’m writing coherent sentences right now.

279 Hercules Grytpype-Thynneghazi  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:03:50pm

re: #14 Dr. Matt

Racism/racial discrimination doesn’t have to be based on race:

The term “racial discrimination” shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction, or p>reference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin that has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life. hri.org

That bolded list still doesn’t include religion. Sure, religion usually follows descent (or, at least, upbringing), but it is logically separable from it. For example, each one of the listed qualities is immutable, but you can change your religion. And if the U.N. had wanted religion in that list, they could certainly have included it.

In practice, I don’t doubt that a large amount of Islam-bashing has a racial component. But I wouldn’t presume to claim that Bryan’s tweet is necessarily motivated specifically by racism as opposed to a more general religious bigotry against anything non-Christian, for which we have plenty of independent evidence.

280 Dr. Matt  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:03:55pm

re: #271 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All

so, what’s been going on the last 6 months everyone?

Benghazi!

281 Justanotherhuman  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:04:00pm

re: #269 Dark_Falcon

That’s just DERP being flung. You can’t get sued for being entitled, and its pretty clear he’s not. But hostility to a someone over their poor language skills can be used against you, if someone is of a mind to do so.

It’s not so much about “entitled”, it’s about the use of “bitch” as an emasculating term used by one man against another.

282 Political Atheist  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:05:39pm

re: #270 darthstar


Heh. I’m reminded of early hard drives. The one that barely fit on the plane.
How many terabytes of text does that file cabinet hold? .00001?

283 Kragar  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:06:29pm
284 Amory Blaine  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:06:33pm

Any photogs available for an opinion on the Fujifilm X100S?

285 erik_t  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:08:14pm

re: #282 Political Atheist

[Embedded image]

Heh. I’m reminded of early hard drives. The one that barely fit on the plane.
How many terabytes of text does that file cabinet hold? .00001?

You’re actually only off by a factor of two*!!

* (1024 vs 1000 caveat goes here)

286 Amory Blaine  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:08:29pm

re: #282 Political Atheist

I believe that machine is 5MB

287 Dave In Austin  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:09:04pm
288 Lidane  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:09:47pm
289 erik_t  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:10:04pm

re: #285 erik_t

Amusingly enough, the same amount of data, printed at 12pt font, single-spaced and single-sided, would only use about three reams of paper.

290 Dr. Matt  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:10:34pm

re: #279 Hercules Grytpype-Thynneghazi

That bolded list still doesn’t include religion. .

True. But, the point was that racism/racial discrimination by many definitions (the UN, Britain, etc) is not limited to race/ethnicity.

291 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:10:42pm

re: #276 Justanotherhuman

Something can be deemed legal without it being constitutional. You can pass a law saying anything really, but that’s not the final arbiter in the United States. And I do not believe the laws would pass constitutional muster.

And it was a very neat trick used by the government to keep anyone from challenging the constitutionality of the laws. Because the entire acts were considered state secrets, no one could find out information to find out exactly what was being done. After all, if you can’t prove you were affected, then you can’t challenge the law.

So now we know what’s going on. but no one can challenge the laws. after all, it’s still confidential, and as such you can’t show standing to file suit.

More importantly, if no one knows what you’re doing, how can anyone raise a voice to argue against it, Up until snowden, anyone who talked about how the NSA was spying on everyone and doing all sorts of stuff, were considered tinfoil hat nutters who followed art bell or something. No one believed, because no one *wanted* to believe it.

I’m sure foreign governments are going to get over what the US was doing, particularly if they were doing it back. That’s a red herring. The only thing embarrassing about our spying, was we got outed. There’s going to be no real long term damage, unless we were well past what is considered acceptable behavior by other foreign governments.

292 erik_t  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:12:05pm

re: #291 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All

More importantly, if no one knows what you’re doing, how can anyone raise a voice to argue against it, Up until snowden, anyone who talked about how the NSA was spying on everyone and doing all sorts of stuff, were considered tinfoil hat nutters who followed art bell or something. No one believed, because no one *wanted* to believe it.

Bullshit. Patriot Act jokes have been low-hanging fruit for a decade. Absolutely nothing that Snowden revealed has been in any way surprising to anyone paying attention.

293 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:12:12pm

re: #256 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All

I’ve basicly stayed off the radar on here while the entire Snowden madness has been going on. Mostly for my own sanity and because I don’t have time to explain nuances. Snowden isn’t purely a traitor, he isn’t purely a whistleblower, He has an idea and an ideal which happens to intersect with him being the white knight saving America. That’s no different than anyone else who has published questionable activity by the US government.

What he didn’t realize was, that a large chunk of America doesn’t want to be saved. Too many people have bought into the security theater after 9/11 and have willingly given into restrictions that would have been unthinkable 15 years ago. Free Speech Zones? Check.

If people feel the examination of email and text messages, even metadata is perfectly ok, then it should also be ok if the Government were to record the destination and arrival of every package, letter, bill sent. Honestly, the only thing that’s prevented the government from trying such a stunt is because it had been technologically unfeasible. We have the technology to track cell phones. why not put that in a database, if they promise to only use it to stop all the terrorists lurking to kill everyone.

I know I’m in the minority here, but I think that the fear campaign after 9//1 was over the top to start with, and has only become more insane as the years have dragged on.

Let me be clear, I don’t think that the NSA engaged in any abuse of the data they’ve collected (beyond the fact they’re collecting it). But If there’s one thing I’ve learned. When someone has a tool. They’re going to use it. and if the tools for data collection, and the data collected, remain available, then the scope of usage will expand and mutate into something much darker and much worse.

I don’t think you can develop safeguards to stop the abuse, not when everything is confidential and there is no one to watch the watchmen. If there were, then *maybe* you could justify it on a compelling national interest. but not in it’s current iteration.

Well, I’ll say right here that I don’t want to be ‘saved’ in that fashion. The tools for data collection are needed to watch for and counter a hidden enemy. So far they haven’t been abused badly, but even if I knew they would be my mind wouldn’t change because that enemy is still out there.

294 abolitionist  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:12:33pm

re: #286 Amory Blaine

I believe that machine is 5MB

Looks like a Green Giant’s version of an Edison Cylinder, but using a more modern technology.

295 Kragar  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:13:09pm

re: #292 erik_t

Bullshit. Patriot Act jokes have been low-hanging fruit for a decade. Absolutely nothing that Snowden revealed has been in any way surprising to anyone paying attention.

Especially since the whole deal came out years ago and most people simply forgot about it.

296 Hercules Grytpype-Thynneghazi  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:14:45pm

re: #290 Dr. Matt

True. But, the point was that racism/racial discrimination by many definitions (the UN, Britain, etc) is not limited to race/ethnicity.

I don’t know exactly how that quote supports the point, then, because all of the listed characteristics are basically proxies for race/ethnicity.

race
colour
descent
national or ethnic origin

297 ericblair  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:15:51pm

re: #256 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All

When someone has a tool. They’re going to use it. and if the tools for data collection, and the data collected, remain available, then the scope of usage will expand and mutate into something much darker and much worse.

I don’t think you can develop safeguards to stop the abuse, not when everything is confidential and there is no one to watch the watchmen. If there were, then *maybe* you could justify it on a compelling national interest. but not in it’s current iteration.

I don’t like this argument, because it’s essentially the conservative “government can’t do anything right” argument when you get down to it. Government has watchmen; they’re called “Congress”. We’re so used to having a dysfunctional Congress that doesn’t do its job that people forget we’re supposed to have a representative government. Private industry doesn’t have watchmen except for the government, either. Fix Congress and fix the problem.

298 Amory Blaine  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:16:00pm

It’s only a problem because everyone up to grandma has a smartphone now. Not so much in 2001.

299 Lidane  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:17:35pm
300 erik_t  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:18:40pm

re: #262 Eclectic Cyborg

Car repair shop to owner of BMW wrecked by employee: ‘It’s not our problem’

But unfortunately for the car’s owner, it’s not against the law for an employee to drive a customer’s car, the cops say. And the repair shop apparently told the owner “Not our problem.”

Of course it’s not against the law. Employees need the power to move vehicles around, and it would be a preposterous legal minefield to attempt to codify exactly what usage is and isn’t criminal. What if the car makes a certain squeak when turning at speed? Do we want the “you can take this out to try to reproduce it” agreement to be between the owner and the shop, or in state statutes?

This is rightly a civil issue, not a criminal one. Consumerist is clickbaiting.

301 Political Atheist  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:18:54pm

re: #284 Amory Blaine

I have not yet laid hands on one. The specs look great-F2.0 APS-C is the same shape “crop” sensor in my 7D.

Not sure how well it will do in movie mode, it’s small size and mass might make anything handheld pretty shaky. Love to retro look and the compact lens though.

302 Eclectic Cyborg  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:19:04pm

re: #299 Lidane

Worst…Revolution…ever!

303 Decatur Deb  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:19:32pm

re: #251 lawhawk

People who are complaining that young folks aren’t signing up and are quipping that only 23% of the enrollees are in the young age cohort seem to willingly ignore that the desirable age cohort is about 23% of the overall population.

In other words, they’re signing up in proportion to their presence in the general population. They aren’t shunning ACA.

thelundreport.org

Insurance industry types are also quoted as saying that the earliest signups for MassCare and similar programs were logically those people most likely to need them soon.

304 Lidane  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:19:52pm
305 Hercules Grytpype-Thynneghazi  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:19:59pm

re: #302 Eclectic Cyborg

Worst…Revolution…ever!

It’s a bloodless coup. Also feckless.

306 Political Atheist  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:20:38pm

The Net neutrality ruling. Serious problem or another fainting couch theater moment? Paged.

307 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:20:44pm

re: #292 erik_t

Bullshit. Patriot Act jokes have been low-hanging fruit for a decade. Absolutely nothing that Snowden revealed has been in any way surprising to anyone paying attention.

Vehemently disagree, I’ve been following this closely, and I didn’t even think the level of NSA activity was viable or would pass the smell test.

We had someone interview at my old job for a QA position, and he had come as a civilian contractor that had worked on some of the NSA systems. He came in bragging about some of the things the system could do. We didn’t hire him, why? because we all thought he was full of crap and a braggart. And as such wouldn’t make a good team member, (and if by some miracle he was being truthful, we thought, he showed poor judgement talking about stuff that was classified and probably shouldn’t be talked about).

So no, people who have been paying attention didn’t assume, oh the NSA is collecting everything and anything possible, and has figured out how to hack computers and get information not connected to the internet.

That’s approaching what I’d call ‘movie magic’ kinda like when the hero sits at a computer and breaks into the secure instillation 5 seconds later. That the NSA can do all of this stuff is horrifying, not the least because if they can do it, then so can other groups, and they may not be so friendly to the US.

308 Kragar  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:20:51pm

re: #299 Lidane

[Embedded content]

What if you have a revolution and no one shows up?

309 RealityBasedSteve  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:22:52pm

re: #299 Lidane
Larry Klayman says America is experiencing a revolution against Obama, but nobody knows about it bit.ly

[Embedded content]

And that would be the same Larry Klayman who had 1,000,000,000 people show up at his rally in Washington that was going to oust Obama? I guess it’s a “stealth” revolution, maybe even a “Double Secret” revolution.

RBS

310 Targetpractice  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:23:32pm

re: #308 Kragar

What if you have a revolution and no one shows up?

Is that anything like a Quiet Riot?

311 Decatur Deb  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:23:33pm

re: #308 Kragar

What if you have a revolution and no one shows up?

You go straight to the General Copulation.

Youtube Video

312 erik_t  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:23:43pm

re: #307 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All

So no, people who have been paying attention didn’t assume, oh the NSA is collecting everything and anything possible, and has figured out how to hack computers and get information not connected to the internet.

They’re not, and they can’t. Their datacenters are the same density as anyone else’s, and they hire analysts from the same worker pool as everyone else. Their Moore’s Law is just like mine. This sort of breathless hyperbole has negative value: it is hurting an important conversation that we can and should be having.

If you want to take Greenwald’s bullshit at face value and have a freakout conversation based upon it, you’re going to be doing it without my help.

313 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:23:53pm

re: #297 ericblair

I don’t like this argument, because it’s essentially the conservative “government can’t do anything right” argument when you get down to it. Government has watchmen; they’re called “Congress”. We’re so used to having a dysfunctional Congress that doesn’t do its job that people forget we’re supposed to have a representative government. Private industry doesn’t have watchmen except for the government, either. Fix Congress and fix the problem.

Good point.

I don’t like government, I don’t trust government.
I trust corporations even less.

It’s not that government can’t do anything right, it’s that government without oversight will eventually abuse that lack of oversight. The problem is, how do you get oversight, real oversight over what is essentially considered an ongoing classified operation?

314 Kragar  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:24:39pm

re: #310 Targetpractice

Is that anything like a Quiet Riot?

I have it on good authority that girls did indeed rock their boys.

315 Political Atheist  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:24:54pm

re: #304 Lidane


One of those niggling issues that legal pot will force to be resolved-LAPD is now using swabs at checkpoints and checking for booze, pot, coke and a couple other drugs. What is a little upsetting is they don’t have a clue where to set the DUI boundary as in ,08 alcohol. Oh and if you refuse the swab there is no penalty for now. Expect the policeman to lie to you about that. Next up, the same drug kit in all the patrol cars for use in traffic stops.

So if you smoked yesterday, will they claim you are stoned driving today? Next week?

316 Lidane  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:25:37pm

re: #310 Targetpractice

Is that anything like a Quiet Riot?

Only if there’s a Slade cover band on stage.

//////

317 Justanotherhuman  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:25:39pm

re: #304 Lidane

[Embedded content]

It’s the Domino Effect! : )

318 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:26:13pm

It’s in the teens again in my part of the world. Not that bad, actually. Last week’s polar vortex caused me to acclimate. Today I went out with one layer on under a fleece hoodie. No gloves, hat or sox.

you?

319 freetoken  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:26:18pm

Big science story of the day:

A mitochondrial genome sequence of a hominin from Sima de los Huesos

Excavations of a complex of caves in the Sierra de Atapuerca in northern Spain have unearthed hominin fossils that range in age from the early Pleistocene to the Holocene1. One of these sites, the ‘Sima de los Huesos’ (‘pit of bones’), has yielded the world’s largest assemblage of Middle Pleistocene hominin fossils consisting of at least 28 individuals dated to over 300,000 years ago. The skeletal remains share a number of morphological features with fossils classified as Homo heidelbergensis and also display distinct Neanderthal-derived traits. Here we determine an almost complete mitochondrial genome sequence of a hominin from Sima de los Huesos and show that it is closely related to the lineage leading to mitochondrial genomes of Denisovans, an eastern Eurasian sister group to Neanderthals. Our results pave the way for DNA research on hominins from the Middle Pleistocene.

The AFA will not approve.

320 Eclectic Cyborg  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:26:20pm

re: #304 Lidane

In related news, Willie Nelson announces New Hampshire concert tour this spring!

321 Eclectic Cyborg  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:27:11pm

re: #319 freetoken

I’m a Christian, but I think stories like that are incredibly awesome.

science is no enemy of mine.

322 Amory Blaine  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:27:16pm

re: #301 Political Atheist

I have not yet laid hands on one. The specs look great-F2.0 APS-C is the same shape “crop” sensor in my 7D.

Not sure how well it will do in movie mode, it’s small size and mass might make anything handheld pretty shaky. Love to retro look and the compact lens though.

Thank you. I read a review that said video was its downside also it chews through batteries. I like the size of it and I want a camera that can take good photos while fitting in my pocket. But I’m on the fence about it.

323 blueraven  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:27:37pm

re: #315 Political Atheist

One of those niggling issues that legal pot will force to be resolved-LAPD is now using swabs at and checking for booze, pot, coke and a couple other drugs. What is a little upsetting is they don’t have a clue where to set the DUI boundary as in ,08 alcohol. Oh and if you refuse the swab there is no penalty for now. Expect the policeman to lie to you about that. Next up, the same drug kit in all the patrol cars for use in traffic stops.

So if you smoked yesterday, will they claim you are stoned driving today? Next week?

I am betting they will come up with a more reliable test now that weed is legal in places. It will make money.

324 Kragar  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:27:47pm
325 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:27:48pm

re: #313 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All

Good point.

I don’t like government, I don’t trust government.
I trust corporations even less.

It’s not that government can’t do anything right, it’s that government without oversight will eventually abuse that lack of oversight. The problem is, how do you get oversight, real oversight over what is essentially considered an ongoing classified operation?

Most of the time that can be remedied by placing the correct members of Congress on a committee that can meet in closed session and hear the classified detail.

I say most of the time because any Congressional committee will eventually have crazy or incompetent people on it.

326 Decatur Deb  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:28:13pm

re: #315 Political Atheist

One of those niggling issues that legal pot will force to be resolved-LAPD is now using swabs at checkpoints and checking for booze, pot, coke and a couple other drugs. What is a little upsetting is they don’t have a clue where to set the DUI boundary as in ,08 alcohol. Oh and if you refuse the swab there is no penalty for now. Expect the policeman to lie to you about that. Next up, the same drug kit in all the patrol cars for use in traffic stops.

So if you smoked yesterday, will they claim you are stoned driving today? Next week?

Cops can apply the Doritos Test in realtime.

Image: norml_munchies1.jpg

327 chadu  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:28:28pm

re: #31 Kragar

[Embedded content]

“I never paid attention to anything GWB did, because he obviously did everything right was white/Republican.”

328 Romantic Heretic  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:28:55pm

re: #313 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All

Good point.

I don’t like government, I don’t trust government.
I trust corporations even less.

It’s not that government can’t do anything right, it’s that government without oversight will eventually abuse that lack of oversight. The problem is, how do you get oversight, real oversight over what is essentially considered an ongoing classified operation?

Government and corporations are tools. Nothing more and nothing less. Tools have no ethical qualities. They only do what the people operating said tools tell them to do.

So the problem isn’t government or corporations. It’s people.

329 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:30:55pm

Powerful short video —really! WATCH.

330 Backwoods_Sleuth  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:31:49pm

re: #299 Lidane

[Embedded content]

because it’s SEKRIT!!!

331 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:32:54pm

re: #313 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All

Good point.

I don’t like government, I don’t trust government.
I trust corporations even less.

It’s not that government can’t do anything right, it’s that government without oversight will eventually abuse that lack of oversight. The problem is, how do you get oversight, real oversight over what is essentially considered an ongoing classified operation?

BOTH government and corporations will abuse power if left with no oversight. When the two collude, it’s even worse.

Which is what I think we are dealing with right now, more so than any other time in my adult life.

It’s a problem.

332 dog philosopher  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:32:54pm

re: #299 Lidane

Larry Klayman says America is experiencing a revolution against Obama, but nobody knows about it

as for me, i’m living in westeros waiting for Daenerys Targaryen to come with her dragons and claim the iron throne

most people just don’t realize it yet

333 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:33:00pm

re: #312 erik_t

They’re not, and they can’t. Their datacenters are the same density as anyone else’s, and they hire analysts from the same worker pool as everyone else. Their Moore’s Law is just like mine. This sort of breathless hyperbole has negative value: it is hurting an important conversation that we can and should be having.

If you want to take Greenwald’s bullshit at face value and have a freakout conversation based upon it, you’re going to be doing it without my help.

So what exactly are they NOT collecting? Is there any doubt they’ve collected all the meta data possible over the past number of years? We assume they can’t collect all the email sent let’s see 150 bln emails a day worldwide. averaging 20kb per message (assume you keep attachments), that’s 3,000 terabytes a day. would that be possible to scan those emails for keywords and flag any interesting ones for future examination or storage?

I think it’s feasible and may already be in action.
wired.com

I don’t think GG wrote that article. :)

334 Backwoods_Sleuth  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:33:29pm

re: #302 Eclectic Cyborg

Worst…Revolution…ever!

well, just look who is in charge of it.
You can only get so much done at the local Denny’s restaurant…

335 freetoken  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:34:29pm

Other big new in old things:

NEW PHARAONIC TOMB DISCOVERED IN EGYPT

Egypt’s Ministry of Antiquities says that American and Egyptian archaeologists have discovered the tomb of a previously unknown pharaonic king dating back to dating to roughly 1650 B.C.

Minister of Antiquities Mohamed Ibrahim says in a statement Wednesday that archaeologists from the University of Pennsylvania, cooperating with the ministry, uncovered the tomb of sixteenth-dynasty King Seneb Kay near the southern city of Sohag. The team determined his name by deciphering hieroglyphics on the tomb’s walls.

[…]

Where’s Harrison Ford when you need him?

336 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:34:53pm

re: #331 FemNaziBitch

BOTH government and corporations will abuse power if left with no oversight. When the two collude, it’s even worse.

Which is what I think we are dealing with right now, more so than any other time in my adult life.

It’s a problem.

QFT. I honestly think the collusion between government and corporations, is a bigger danger to America than any NSA spying concerns.

337 wrenchwench  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:34:57pm

re: #315 Political Atheist

One of those niggling issues that legal pot will force to be resolved-LAPD is now using swabs at checkpoints and checking for booze, pot, coke and a couple other drugs. What is a little upsetting is they don’t have a clue where to set the DUI boundary as in ,08 alcohol. Oh and if you refuse the swab there is no penalty for now. Expect the policeman to lie to you about that. Next up, the same drug kit in all the patrol cars for use in traffic stops.

So if you smoked yesterday, will they claim you are stoned driving today? Next week?

How about a test along the lines of walking the line and saying the alphabet backwards, like they do for anyone suspected of driving impaired? They could develop more elaborate tests, even using a driving simulator, for instance. If a person is not impaired, who cares what’s in their blood?

338 darthstar  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:35:06pm

re: #282 Political Atheist

[Embedded image]

Heh. I’m reminded of early hard drives. The one that barely fit on the plane.
How many terabytes of text does that file cabinet hold? .00001?

It holds up to five reams of data…single-spaced.

339 darthstar  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:35:24pm

re: #338 darthstar

It holds up to five reams of data…single-spaced.

Double-sided, even.

340 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:35:39pm

re: #300 erik_t

Of course it’s not against the law. Employees need the power to move vehicles around, and it would be a preposterous legal minefield to attempt to codify exactly what usage is and isn’t criminal. What if the car makes a certain squeak when turning at speed? Do we want the “you can take this out to try to reproduce it” agreement to be between the owner and the shop, or in state statutes?

This is rightly a civil issue, not a criminal one. Consumerist is clickbaiting.

Insurance (and liability of such) follow the car. I think what can happen is the owner can file an insurance claim and the insurance company would subrogate against the employee/car repair shop.

Or the owner could file against the shop owner’s insurance.

I’d, personally, get a lawyer. With insurance involved, it should be relatively easy to get a lawyer to take the case on contingency (I would think)

341 chadu  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:36:28pm

re: #137 Pie-onist Overlord

I want to resurrect Theodore Roosevelt from the grave more EVERY DAMN DAY.

[TR], a split second before spitting in the invisible face of death, and pimp slapping it with his tiny neck-hand.

342 Political Atheist  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:36:38pm

re: #323 blueraven

I am betting they will come up with a more reliable test now that weed is legal in places. It will make money.

Yeah, I’d love to hear from a chemist. Cannabis breakdown chemicals leave a person slowly. They say you have to quit for weeks to pass a urine test without a cheat. I’m wondering if a reliable+portable+out in the field friendly kit is even possible. Men, let along cops are notoriously hard on gear.

How high is too high? Lots of us feel a buzz at .06 alcohol.

343 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:37:08pm

OK, thanks for the conversation all. We may have differing views and opinions, but I’m grateful whenever we can have a good debate.

A pity school is eating me alive. Time for class. (can anyone tell me why I decided to take 7 classes this semester at Ga Tech? LOL

344 darthstar  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:37:18pm

re: #341 chadu

I want to resurrect Theodore Roosevelt from the grave more EVERY DAMN DAY.

[TR], a split second before spitting in the invisible face of death, and pimp slapping it with his tiny neck-hand.

For a guy with such a big head, he had a tiny little arm.

345 Kragar  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:37:38pm

re: #344 darthstar

For a guy with such a big head, he had a tiny little arm.

He was a T-Rex

346 Justanotherhuman  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:38:45pm

re: #340 FemNaziBitch

Insurance (and liability of such) follow the car. I think what can happen is the owner can file an insurance claim and the insurance company would subrogate against the employee/car repair shop.

Or the owner could file against the shop owner’s insurance.

I’d, personally, get a lawyer. With insurance involved, it should be relatively easy to get a lawyer to take the case on contingency (I would think)

Actually, the guy’s insurance co itself should do that, under these circumstances if he makes a collision claim. He can always sue for his deductible in small claims court if it’s worth it.

347 RealityBasedSteve  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:39:10pm

re: #332 dog philosopher

as for me, i’m living in westeros waiting for Daenerys Targaryen to come with her dragons and claim the iron throne

most people just don’t realize it yet

I, for one, welcome our new dragon overlords.

RBS

348 BeenHereAwhile  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:39:22pm

re: #211 Dr Lizardo

I always imagined it would be Veronica who’d be the one to let her freak flag fly.

VERONICA - Very Easy Rodent-Oriented Net-wide Index to Computer Archives

349 thedopefishlives  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:39:24pm

Afternoon/Evening Lizardim.

350 darthstar  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:39:53pm

Not that I don’t mind fair weather, but the fact that I’m seriously considering driving my 350Z to Tahoe for ski patrol this weekend is really disturbing. I’m ready for some fucking winter weather.

351 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:40:31pm

re: #346 Justanotherhuman

Actually, the guy’s insurance co itself should do that, under these circumstances if he makes a collision claim. He can always sue for his deductible in small claims court if it’s worth it.

Yes, I guess didn’t make that clear.

The owner’s insurance company usually then subrogates against the responsible party and when they get their money, they refund the deductible.

352 Amory Blaine  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:40:31pm

He gave a speech after being shot here in Milwaukee.

353 Kragar  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:41:11pm
354 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:41:34pm

re: #347 RealityBasedSteve

I, for one, welcome our new dragon overlords.

RBS

She and Aria are my favorite characters, I think.

the Jagen face changing guy is pretty cool too.

355 freetoken  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:41:59pm

re: #350 darthstar

It’s 83F and sunny here now, which may seem great to some of you, but it is so dry the region is starting look rather bad for our trees.

Red flag warning too.

356 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:42:43pm

re: #353 Kragar

[Embedded content]

common-sense has never been his strong point.

357 erik_t  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:42:49pm

If the NSA is reading literally every email sent every day, even flagging interesting words automatically and then remanding potentially interesting emails to actual living readers, (1) they fucking suck at it (2) it would require thousands if not tens of thousands of analysts. It would be really, really hard to keep quiet internally, with such a large fraction of the organization dedicated to this operation. Certainly if you grabbed thousands or millions of internal documents, you’d expect a few of them to at least hint at this.

And it’d be a monstrous stop-the-presses story. Torches-and-pitchforks sort of stuff.

I wonder, then, why we haven’t seen the slightest shred of evidence from GreenSnow that such action is actually occurring.

As usual, belief in the Big Scary Stuff requires the offending governmental agency to simultaneously be hilariously incompetent and far more powerful and streamlined and polished than any organization has been in all of human history.

358 thedopefishlives  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:42:56pm

re: #350 darthstar

Not that I don’t mind fair weather, but the fact that I’m seriously considering driving my 350Z to Tahoe for ski patrol this weekend is really disturbing. I’m ready for some fucking winter weather.

Come on over; apparently, there’s a blizzard warning out somewhere nearby. We’re having a bit of light snow that just barely missed severely complicating my drive home.

359 chadu  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:43:10pm

re: #149 Pie-onist Overlord

Isn’t “Like A Boss” the same thing as “Like A Donald Trump”?

Note: On “Who’s the Boss?”, the boss was Judith Light, not Tony Danza.

And now you know, and…

360 Backwoods_Sleuth  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:43:49pm

re: #335 freetoken

Other big new in old things:

NEW PHARAONIC TOMB DISCOVERED IN EGYPT

Where’s Harrison Ford when you need him?

I liked the story I read at the Daily Mail a couple of days ago where they discovered the tomb of a beer brewer.

361 wrenchwench  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:43:51pm
362 Kragar  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:45:41pm

re: #359 chadu

Note: On “Who’s the Boss?”, the boss was Judith Light, not Tony Danza.

And now you know, and…

And knowing is half the battle.

The other half is 25% blue lasers and 25% red lasers

363 darthstar  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:45:42pm
364 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:45:50pm

re: #357 erik_t

If the NSA is reading literally every email sent every day, even flagging interesting words automatically and then remanding potentially interesting emails to actual living readers, (1) they fucking suck at it (2) it would require thousands if not tens of thousands of analysts. It would be really, really hard to keep quiet internally, with such a large fraction of the organization dedicated to this operation. Certainly if you grabbed thousands or millions of internal documents, you’d expect a few of them to at least hint at this.

And it’d be a monstrous stop-the-presses story. Torches-and-pitchforks sort of stuff.

I wonder, then, why we haven’t seen the slightest shred of evidence from GreenSnow that such action is actually occurring.

As usual, belief in the Big Scary Stuff requires the offending governmental agency to simultaneously be hilariously incompetent and far more powerful and streamlined and polished than any organization has been in all of human history.

It would take two or three people to read a prominent person’s email. I don’t even read all the mail I get.

So, it would be a one-to-one analyst to person ratio for -what 20%? of the population. What percent doesnt get email at all?

People like my Dad got so little email that one analyst could handle 50+ of his accounts per day

Donald Trump?—how many staff does he have reading his email?

We should be able to figure this out.

365 makeitstop  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:47:48pm

re: #358 thedopefishlives

Come on over; apparently, there’s a blizzard warning out somewhere nearby. We’re having a bit of light snow that just barely missed severely complicating my drive home.

We’ve got the thickest blanket of fog that I can ever remember seeing here on LI. I literally couldn’t see the 90 feet from my house to the curb this morning.

It mostly burned off this afternoon, but now it’s back. I went out and looked earlier, and couldn’t even see to the end of my block.

I gotta drive to the gym once my wife gets home. Thank dog for fog lights.

366 thedopefishlives  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:48:37pm

re: #364 FemNaziBitch

It would take two or three people to read a prominent person’s email. I don’t even read all the mail I get.

So, it would be a one-to-one analyst to person ratio for -what 20%? of the population. What percent doesnt get email at all?

People like my Dad got so little email that one analyst could handle 50+ of his accounts per day

Donald Trump?—how many staff does he have reading his email?

We should be able to figure this out.

As of 2012, 144.8 billion (yes, with a B) emails were being sent every single day. Of those, 65% are spam emails, but still, if they’re literally reading every single email sent, it would still take a non-trivial amount of time to categorize and ignore that 65%. That should give you an idea of the volume of data processing that would need to occur.

367 chadu  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:48:48pm

re: #248 Backwoods_Sleuth

Anyone who enjoyed Jim Wright’s vacation air travel nightmare post at Stonekettle Station will also enjoy his FB post about what he has since heard from his trolls:

facebook.com

Thanks! I’m getting back into my daily blog/site trawl post-move, and have added FB to the list.

368 chadu  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:49:38pm

O/T, but paged something about my cousin Jimmy:

littlegreenfootballs.com

369 Eclectic Cyborg  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:49:44pm

re: #365 makeitstop

I dislike thick fog. I think my claustrophobia has something to do with it.

370 darthstar  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:49:47pm

re: #355 freetoken

It’s 83F and sunny here now, which may seem great to some of you, but it is so dry the region is starting look rather bad for our trees.

Red flag warning too.

73 and sunny in Half Moon Bay.

Here’s Pacifica right now.

371 klys  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:50:16pm

re: #370 darthstar

I am disgusted with our weather in general.

372 erik_t  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:50:24pm

re: #364 FemNaziBitch

It would take two or three people to read a prominent person’s email. I don’t even read all the mail I get.

We should be able to figure this out.

It’s awfully complicated by the language issue. I mean, unless you think that the US Government has an automated translator program that makes the combined private industry’s efforts look like a drooling third grader.

NSA does sigint anyway. They don’t have ten thousand language experts. It’s just not their job.

373 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:51:06pm

re: #366 thedopefishlives

As of 2012, 144.8 billion (yes, with a B) emails were being sent every single day. Of those, 65% are spam emails, but still, if they’re literally reading every single email sent, it would still take a non-trivial amount of time to categorize and ignore that 65%. That should give you an idea of the volume of data processing that would need to occur.

WEll, figuring that maybe 100 out of all that in a given week will actually be “of interest” to Homeland Security —I vote for devising a computer program to filter for certain names or words.

oh wait …

374 EPR-radar  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:51:31pm

re: #343 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All

OK, thanks for the conversation all. We may have differing views and opinions, but I’m grateful whenever we can have a good debate.

A pity school is eating me alive. Time for class. (can anyone tell me why I decided to take 7 classes this semester at Ga Tech? LOL

To be blunt, drop 2 classes now.

375 Dr Lizardo  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:51:39pm

re: #365 makeitstop

We’ve got the thickest blanket of fog that I can ever remember seeing here on LI. I literally couldn’t see the 90 feet from my house to the curb this morning.

It mostly burned off this afternoon, but now it’s back. I went out and looked earlier, and couldn’t even see to the end of my block.

I gotta drive to the gym once my wife gets home. Thank dog for fog lights.

We had a fog here in Ostrava a couple of weeks ago that was the thickest I’d ever seen - from the balcony door, visibility was at most 20 feet.

Needless to say, the airport was closed down.

376 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:52:08pm

re: #371 klys

I am disgusted with our weather in general.

I don’t mind the weather so much, it kills everything I’m allergic to. It’s the cabin fever. The sub-zero temps are safe —15 degrees and above, I’m ok with.

377 chadu  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:52:15pm

re: #258 Lidane

It’s not that hard to turn Peter Pan into the villain of the story. Take Hook out of the equation, since he’s there as a foil for Peter. If he wasn’t there, who would be the antagonist?

I’m fond of the idea that the Pan becomes the Hook — they’re roles, not people.

(One reason I like HOOK: “Peter, you’ve become a pirate!”)

378 darthstar  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:52:17pm

re: #364 FemNaziBitch

Donald Trump?—how many staff does he have reading his email?

We should be able to figure this out.

Trump’s staff have to translate his email so he can understand it. This usually entails writing in poop on the wall.

379 klys  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:53:12pm

re: #376 FemNaziBitch

I don’t mind the weather so much, it kills everything I’m allergic to. It’s the cabin fever. The sub-zero temps are safe —15 degrees and above, I’m ok with.

I am in CA.

I like winter.

It is currently 72 degrees out.

380 sattv4u2  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:54:04pm

re: #379 klys

I am in CA.

I like winter.

It is currently 72 degrees out.

Put it back in! The neighbors are complaining!!!!
/

381 abolitionist  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:54:59pm

re: #331 FemNaziBitch

BOTH government and corporations will abuse power if left with no oversight. When the two collude, it’s even worse.

Which is what I think we are dealing with right now, more so than any other time in my adult life.

It’s a problem.

In case some LGF readers believe such problems are still merely theoretical:

Spy-tool sellers Palantir secure $200 million in funding amid surveillance scandal
Published time: September 30, 2013

Perhaps the project that caused the most commotion about the company was one that never managed to get off the ground, however. In 2011, hacktivists with the Anonymous collective linked Palantir to “Team Themis,” a partnership that also involved contractors HBGary and Berico that was created to help discredit WikiLeaks and its supporters, including writer Glenn Greenwald. It was foiled by Anonymous before ever set in motion, and Palantir CEO Alex Karp eventually offered an apology and attempted to distance his company from the controversy.

Apology to Greenwald. Please let that sink in a bit, folks.

382 Justanotherhuman  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:55:08pm

re: #357 erik_t

If the NSA is reading literally every email sent every day, even flagging interesting words automatically and then remanding potentially interesting emails to actual living readers, (1) they fucking suck at it (2) it would require thousands if not tens of thousands of analysts. It would be really, really hard to keep quiet internally, with such a large fraction of the organization dedicated to this operation. Certainly if you grabbed thousands or millions of internal documents, you’d expect a few of them to at least hint at this.

And it’d be a monstrous stop-the-presses story. Torches-and-pitchforks sort of stuff.

I wonder, then, why we haven’t seen the slightest shred of evidence from GreenSnow that such action is actually occurring.

As usual, belief in the Big Scary Stuff requires the offending governmental agency to simultaneously be hilariously incompetent and far more powerful and streamlined and polished than any organization has been in all of human history.

And Greensnow & Co can charge everything they want the most hyperbolic terms and the NSA is not going to respond accordingly, without they themselves giving up secrets.

There is always a ladder of trust in govt—in Congress, it’s committees and sub-committees that take care of business and present legislation, etc to the full body, those people we elect.

We don’t have a straight “democratic” form of govt, no nation on earth does. That would be the “mob”, which seems a lot like the ‘bagger element these days, along with the libertarian and anarchist elements, all of whom seem to be working against the established govt and unless we have another armed revolution, it will remain that way. And those people would lose.

383 chadu  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:56:25pm

re: #362 Kragar

And knowing is half the battle.

The other half is 25% blue lasers and 25% red lasers

I regret I only have one upding to give.

384 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:56:49pm

re: #360 Backwoods_Sleuth

I liked the story I read at the Daily Mail a couple of days ago where they discovered the tomb of a beer brewer.

I picture it looking like the aftermath of a frat party, only dessicated.

385 Backwoods_Sleuth  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:57:33pm

re: #369 Eclectic Cyborg

I dislike thick fog. I think my claustrophobia has something to do with it.

I don’t mind fog much anymore (except for driving in it) but it creeped me out seriously for many years after watching that Outer Limits episode back in 1963…

386 Amory Blaine  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:57:39pm

re: #371 klys

I am disgusted with our weather in general.

I’m sick of these Alberta clippers coming every other day it seems.

*shakes fist at sky

387 darthstar  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:57:42pm
388 thedopefishlives  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:58:40pm

re: #386 Amory Blaine

I’m sick of these Alberta clippers coming every other day it seems.

*shakes fist at sky

Dammit, Canada.

389 compound_Idaho  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:58:42pm

re: #256 Stormageddon, Dark Lord of All

I’ve basicly stayed off the radar on here while the entire Snowden madness has been going on. Mostly for my own sanity and because I don’t have time to explain nuances. Snowden isn’t purely a traitor, he isn’t purely a whistleblower, He has an idea and an ideal which happens to intersect with him being the white knight saving America. That’s no different than anyone else who has published questionable activity by the US government.

What he didn’t realize was, that a large chunk of America doesn’t want to be saved. Too many people have bought into the security theater after 9/11 and have willingly given into restrictions that would have been unthinkable 15 years ago. Free Speech Zones? Check.

If people feel the examination of email and text messages, even metadata is perfectly ok, then it should also be ok if the Government were to record the destination and arrival of every package, letter, bill sent. Honestly, the only thing that’s prevented the government from trying such a stunt is because it had been technologically unfeasible. We have the technology to track cell phones. why not put that in a database, if they promise to only use it to stop all the terrorists lurking to kill everyone.

I know I’m in the minority here, but I think that the fear campaign after 9//1 was over the top to start with, and has only become more insane as the years have dragged on.

Let me be clear, I don’t think that the NSA engaged in any abuse of the data they’ve collected (beyond the fact they’re collecting it). But If there’s one thing I’ve learned. When someone has a tool. They’re going to use it. and if the tools for data collection, and the data collected, remain available, then the scope of usage will expand and mutate into something much darker and much worse.

I don’t think you can develop safeguards to stop the abuse, not when everything is confidential and there is no one to watch the watchmen. If there were, then *maybe* you could justify it on a compelling national interest. but not in it’s current iteration.

It is feasible and it does.

nytimes.com

390 sagehen  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:59:11pm

re: #5 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Or the FALN (Puerto Rican separatists) — different generation, but still. The bombings, the hijackings, they shot up Congress that one time, Truman’s bodyguard died in one of their assassination attempts….)

391 Eclectic Cyborg  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:59:35pm

re: #388 thedopefishlives

Dammit, Canada.

Sorry…

392 Varek Raith  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:59:55pm

re: #391 Eclectic Cyborg

Sorry…

Go to your room.

393 klys  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 2:59:57pm

re: #388 thedopefishlives

Dammit, Canada.

BLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAME CANAAAAAAAAAAAAADAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA.

argc is a very useful argument name, because it’s what I say every time I’m working on this. ARG C!

394 Targetpractice  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 3:01:00pm

re: #387 darthstar

[Embedded content]

What were you people on?! And where can I get some?

395 thedopefishlives  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 3:02:06pm

re: #393 klys

BLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAME CANAAAAAAAAAAAAADAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA.

argc is a very useful argument name, because it’s what I say every time I’m working on this. ARG C!

I make my cow-orkers laugh all the time with periodic profanity-laced explosions in the general direction of my screen when coding. It’s what passes for cathartic when I’m working on a frustrating bit of code.

396 darthstar  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 3:03:35pm

re: #394 Targetpractice

What were you people on?! And where can I get some?

A steady diet of shoulder pads, bold colors, and hair gel.

397 klys  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 3:04:05pm

re: #395 thedopefishlives

I make my cow-orkers laugh all the time with periodic profanity-laced explosions in the general direction of my screen when coding. It’s what passes for cathartic when I’m working on a frustrating bit of code.

There may be a break to work on my Crazy Cat Lady title.

Soon.

Because dammit.

398 darthstar  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 3:04:06pm
399 thedopefishlives  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 3:05:43pm

re: #397 klys

There may be a break to work on my Crazy Cat Lady title.

Soon.

Because dammit.

Tonight is grocery shopping night for the Mrs. Fish, so I am going to be on fishspawn patrol.

400 wrenchwench  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 3:07:34pm

re: #397 klys

There may be a break to work on my Crazy Cat Lady title.

Soon.

Because dammit.

How did your cats cope with your recent absence and return?

401 Pie-onist Overlord  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 3:07:43pm

re: #237 Lidane

If you think about it, Peter Pan is a much better villain than Hook in the story.

The original play by J.M. Barrie contains a whole bunch of backstory in the stage directions, they go on for pages and in them Peter is more sinister and Hook more heroic. Hook also doubles as the kids’ father.

Peter Pan has been played by a young woman (Maud Adams), middle-aged women (Mary Martin & Cathy Rigby), a middle-aged man (Robin Williams), but it was not until the 1990’s that somebody cast a teenage boy in the role.

402 klys  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 3:08:05pm

re: #399 thedopefishlives

Tonight is grocery shopping night for the Mrs. Fish, so I am going to be on fishspawn patrol.

My sister got me a Rotten Little Helper. I need more of the raid drop ones though, so she’s getting corralled into running the old stuff with me as a venting process for a bit.

Because argc.

403 klys  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 3:08:45pm

re: #400 wrenchwench

How did your cats cope with your recent absence and return?

They have mostly forgiven us, it seems! I suspect desire for warmth wins a lot. And also, food.

404 dog philosopher  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 3:10:25pm

re: #402 klys

My sister got me a Rotten Little Helper. I need more of the raid drop ones though, so she’s getting corralled into running the old stuff with me as a venting process for a bit.

Because argc.

all my parameters give me arguments

405 BeenHereAwhile  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 3:11:25pm

re: #270 darthstar

I’ve got a great idea for a mass storage device that is secure, and impervious to unauthorized snooping.

[Embedded image]

I’m gonna be rich, rich! I tell ya.

Needs a bar lock.

406 thedopefishlives  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 3:11:25pm

re: #402 klys

My sister got me a Rotten Little Helper. I need more of the raid drop ones though, so she’s getting corralled into running the old stuff with me as a venting process for a bit.

Because argc.

My wife got sick of farming the spineclaw from the Timeless Isle, so when she saw one listed for 24k on the auction house, it took about .05 seconds for her to buy it.

407 RealityBasedSteve  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 3:11:30pm

re: #403 klys

They have mostly forgiven us, it seems! I suspect desire for warmth wins a lot. And also, food.

Mine seem to have a 1 hour per day of absence rule. Even with the nice pet-sitter that comes in every other day to look over the house, fill bowls, empty boxes I get the “We are going to sit on the other side of the room and just stare at you” treatment.

Unless bed-time comes up, then I’m ok since I’m a good pillow.

RBS

408 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 3:12:54pm

re: #382 Justanotherhuman

We don’t have a straight “democratic” form of govt, no nation on earth does. That would be the “mob”, which seems a lot like the ‘bagger element these days, along with the libertarian and anarchist elements, all of whom seem to be working against the established govt and unless we have another armed revolution, it will remain that way. And those people would lose.

No, we are a Republic married to a representative-democratic election process, a capitalistic economic system and a socialist social system.

and somehow it all works.

409 Pie-onist Overlord  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 3:14:36pm

re: #240 leftynyc

Can’t speak for PO but me and a group of others tried to do that very thing right here:

dailykos.com

It had an excellent response and I don’t think any diary ever got that many responses before but it only lasted a couple of months. Now I may post there a couple of times a month and leave anything concerning Israel alone - I don’t need the heartburn and have told most of those signers of the letter about LGF.

Wow, that’s awesome. Favorited.

410 Backwoods_Sleuth  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 3:15:32pm
411 darthstar  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 3:20:03pm
412 abolitionist  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 3:20:37pm

re: #410 Backwoods_Sleuth

Rooms Transformed into Suspended Cat Playgrounds

There seems to be a black scratching post with woofers. :)

413 Justanotherhuman  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 3:21:17pm

re: #408 FemNaziBitch

No, we are a Republic married to a representative-democratic election process, a capitalistic economic system and a socialist social system.

and somehow it all works.

And whether the RW likes it or not, we can also be described as a modern “welfare state”, and even with ACA, we remain the only modern industrialized country without a uniform national health program (or universal care), such as those in the UK, Germany, France, etc.

414 Amory Blaine  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 3:24:03pm

re: #412 abolitionist

Heh. I have the same headphones, very good wireless. Seriously though that playground is awesome.

415 RealityBasedSteve  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 3:24:05pm

re: #413 Justanotherhuman

And whether the RW likes it or not, we can also be described as a modern “welfare state”, and even with ACA, we remain the only modern industrialized country without a uniform national health program (or universal care), such as those in the UK, Germany, France, etc.

Because “Exceptionalism” doesn’t automatically mean “Better”

RBS

416 BeenHereAwhile  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 3:24:10pm

re: #311 Decatur Deb

You go straight to the General Copulation.

[Embedded content]

“Fighting all the gentry and fighting every priest
The business man the bourgeois the military beast
Marat always ready to stifle every scheme
Of the sons of the ass licking dying regime

We’ve got new generals our leaders are new
They sit and they argue and all that they do
is sell their own colleagues
And ride upon their backs
Or jail them
Or break them
Or give them all the ax
Screaming in language that no one understand
Of the rights that we grab with our own bleeding hands
When we wiped out the bosses
And stormed through the wall
of the prison you told us would outlast us all.”

417 Justanotherhuman  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 3:24:55pm

The sick underbelly of the Internet.

UK paedophiles pay to watch webcam child sex abuse in Philippines

bbc.co.uk

From other nations as well, including the US, no doubt.

418 calochortus  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 3:26:52pm

re: #417 Justanotherhuman

The sick underbelly of the Internet.

UK paedophiles pay to watch webcam child sex abuse in Philippines

bbc.co.uk

From other nations as well, including the US, no doubt.

That just creeped me out when I heard it. Apparently viewers could tell the kids what they wanted them to do…

419 simoom  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 3:27:17pm

I just started looking through Ellsberg’s reddit AMA from today. I’ll post any interesting excerpts as I read through. Here’s Ellsberg going full Alex Jones:

reddit.com

Do they want to live in a democracy, with checks and balances, restraints on Executive power? (They may not feel that they care, though I would say they should; but if they do, it’s relevant to the question that follows). Do they really believe that real democracy is viable, when one branch of government, the Executive, knows or can know every detail of every private communication (or credit card transaction, or movement) of: every journalist; every source to every journalist; every member of Congress and their staffs; every judge, at every level up to the Supreme Court? Do they think that every one of these people “has nothing to hide,” nothing that could be used to blackmail them or manipulate them, or neutralize their dissent to Executive policies, or influence voting behavior? Is investigative journalism, or aggressive Congressional investigation of the Executive, or court restraints on Executive practices, really possible with that amount of transparency to the Executive of their private and professional lives and associations? And without any of those checks, the kind of democracy you have is that of the German Democratic Republic in East Germany, with its Stasi (which had a miniscule fraction of the surveillance capability the NSA has now, but enough to turn a fraction of the population of East Germany into secret Stasi informants).

420 Kragar  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 3:27:28pm
421 calochortus  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 3:27:58pm

re: #420 Kragar

[Embedded content]

My surprise…oh, never mind.

422 Amory Blaine  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 3:28:48pm

I love that graph.

423 darthstar  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 3:29:21pm

re: #410 Backwoods_Sleuth

Rooms Transformed into Suspended Cat Playgrounds

That is way cool.

424 Dr Lizardo  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 3:30:35pm

re: #417 Justanotherhuman

The sick underbelly of the Internet.

UK paedophiles pay to watch webcam child sex abuse in Philippines

bbc.co.uk

From other nations as well, including the US, no doubt.

425 Eclectic Cyborg  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 3:30:38pm

re: #413 Justanotherhuman

And whether the RW likes it or not, we can also be described as a modern “welfare state”, and even with ACA, we remain the only modern industrialized country without a uniform national health program (or universal care), such as those in the UK, Germany, France, etc.

And to many people, that’s the greatest thing about America.

426 darthstar  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 3:30:57pm

re: #422 Amory Blaine

I love that graph.

[Embedded image]

If you find more and more people calling you a ‘retard’, it’s not because they’re all just insensitive to developmentally challenged people, it’s because you’re watching Fox News.

427 Kragar  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 3:31:18pm

re: #419 simoom

He seems to be missing the whole point where such activity might be technically possible, the logistics behind it would make it impossible, as well as the fact no one at the NSA was doing such a thing and were legally prevented from doing so by multiple restrictions and guidelines.

428 Eclectic Cyborg  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 3:31:19pm

re: #418 calochortus

That just creeped me out when I heard it. Apparently viewers could tell the kids what they wanted them to do…

Good God that’s messed up.

429 chadu  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 3:32:03pm

re: #415 RealityBasedSteve

Because “Exceptionalism” doesn’t automatically mean “Better”

More and more, when I hear RWNJs praise American exceptionalism, it seems that they are lauding Americans’ ability to be the “exception” to their stated ideals.

430 b_sharp  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 3:32:48pm

re: #388 thedopefishlives

Dammit, Canada.

What?

431 thedopefishlives  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 3:34:31pm

re: #430 b_sharp

What?

You broke the weather.

432 Amory Blaine  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 3:34:53pm

re: #430 b_sharp

Quit throwing Alberta Clippers and Vortexes at us!!

//

433 b_sharp  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 3:35:20pm

re: #431 thedopefishlives

You broke the weather.

We just set it up. You guys suck it down there.

434 b_sharp  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 3:35:46pm

re: #432 Amory Blaine

Quit throwing Alberta Clippers and Vortexes at us!!

//

Just practicing for when we take over the world.

435 simoom  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 3:37:02pm

re: #419 simoom

Ellsberg, more Stasi and blackmail rhetoric:

reddit.com

NSA has ability to penetrate our privacy and to collect the details of all our communications that no autocracy in history has been able to aspire to. The East German Stasi, or J. Edgar Hoover, couldn’t even imagine having the comprehensive ability to blackmail and manipulate citizens, members of Congress, journalists, dissenters, that the NSA now has.

436 dog philosopher  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 3:37:07pm

nbc/marist poll jan. 12-14

clinton 50%
christie 37%

same poll, dec. 2013

clinton 48%
christie 45%

437 Justanotherhuman  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 3:37:47pm

re: #419 simoom

I just started looking through Ellsberg’s reddit AMA from today. I’ll post any interesting excerpts as I read through. Here’s Ellsberg going full Alex Jones:

reddit.com

He’s just a shell of his former persona. Or maybe he’s just a lot more of what we didn’t notice then. A lot of us were pretty naive politically back then; it was a different era, too.

At any rate, time has not mellowed him; he’s just gotten worse and less discerning, IMHO.

438 dog philosopher  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 3:38:02pm

re: #431 thedopefishlives

You broke the weather.

if your polar vortex lasts for more than four hours, see a physician

439 Kragar  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 3:39:42pm

re: #435 simoom

Ellsberg, more Stasi and blackmail rhetoric:

reddit.com

Because the ability to connect to one person computer means they have the resources to monitor every single data point in the world 24/7, record and sift thru the data, then utilize it, while all the while, no government oversight or regulation can stop them.

440 Pie-onist Overlord  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 3:40:02pm

WTFITS

441 Amory Blaine  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 3:40:09pm

I predict that soon we’ll be giving the polar vortex a name.

Vortex Vinnie.

442 simoom  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 3:40:33pm

re: #435 simoom

Ellsberg, comparing Manning & Snowden to Rosa Parks:

reddit.com

Yes, we do need what amounts to non-violent revolution (starting with restoration of the best parts of what was won 225 years ago). Something as far-reaching, as near-miraculous (in terms of being unforeseeable) as what led to the downing of the Berlin Wall, or majority rule in South Africa. Very unfortunately, we don’t have a Gorbachev in sight, or a Mandela (or even de Klerk)m or a Martin Luther King, Jr. I have to hope we can start on this without them. And we do have our Rosa Park’s: see Manning, Snowden, the NSA Four, and the anonynous leakers who exposed our torture and kidnapping and warrantless wiretapping (even though in the latter case, Congress—including Senator Obama—covered themselves with shame by “legalizing” it in the FISA AMendment Acts, which should be revoked).

443 lawhawk  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 3:40:34pm

re: #436 dog philosopher

Polls show support for Christie is conditional. They’ll support him only so long as the scandal doesn’t directly implicate him in ordering the Code Red. If he goes all Col. Jessup, he’s screwed. State would call for him to step down/be impeached/removed from office.

444 Varek Raith  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 3:40:59pm

re: #431 thedopefishlives

You broke the weather.

Yep.

445 Pie-onist Overlord  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 3:43:34pm

HURR HURR

446 simoom  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 3:45:04pm

Ellsberg, on what he thinks Obama would do if he had released The Pentagon Papers modern-day:

reddit.com

I think Obama’s reaction to me today would also be the same as Nixon’s to me in 1971: Lock Ellsberg up for life. He wouldn’t have to do what Nixon ordered done to me in May, 1972, when I was exposing and attacking his policies while out on bail during my prosecution: order a team of ex-CIA “assets” under direction of “former” CIA and FBI agents “to incapacitate Ellsberg totally.” He wouldn’t have to do that because I wouldn’t be out on bail; I’d be in isolation, incommunicado, like Manning was and Snowden would be.

Like many of his fellow travelers, he seems to conflate the military and civilian justice systems.

447 Kragar  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 3:45:27pm

re: #445 Pie-onist Overlord

448 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 3:49:01pm
In 2002, as the Virginia general assembly repealed a ban on spousal rape prosecution, Black wondered if it was really possible for a husband to rape his wife. He said changing the law could cause a man “enormous fear of the damage to his reputation” if his wife ever filed a false rape claim. Last month, after the Weekly Standard highlighted Black’s remarks on spousal rape, a member of Black’s congressional campaign staff emailed the Loudoun Progress to say, “Black was not taking a position for or against marital rape.”*

I need to get off the internet.

Also Paged

449 RealityBasedSteve  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 3:49:26pm

re: #438 dog philosopher

if your polar vortex lasts for more than four hours, see a physician

Irish racing cyclist left with 7 week erection after fall on crossbar.

RBS

450 Varek Raith  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 3:51:06pm
451 RealityBasedSteve  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 3:51:57pm

re: #447 Kragar
You only get 15 minutes of fame, but the mocking lasts a life time. @airwolf1967 @RonHall46 @RREwing @viciousbabushka

[Embedded content]

Exactly… See: Bill Buckner

RBS

452 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 3:52:35pm
Black was at his most virulent when targeting Virginia’s same-sex couples. He championed legislation to ban same-sex couples from adopting children, claiming that gay men and women are more prone to violence, alcoholism, and suicide. When it became clear the bill would fail, according to a 2005 Washington Post article, he amended it to require adoption agents to investigate whether the prospective parents were “known to engage in current voluntary homosexual activity.”

and there is more about this person —if you can stand to read it.

453 RealityBasedSteve  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 3:53:11pm

re: #448 FemNaziBitch
a member of Black’s congressional campaign staff emailed the Loudoun Progress to say, “Black was not taking a position for or against marital rape.”*

I need to get off the internet.

Also Paged

Massive EBF Fail.

RBS

454 Kragar  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 3:55:15pm

re: #448 FemNaziBitch

“Black was not taking a position for or against marital rape.”

So he hasn’t made up his mind yet about if a woman getting raped by her husband is a good thing or a bad thing?

455 abolitionist  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 3:56:30pm

re: #427 Kragar

He seems to be missing the whole point where such activity might be technically possible, the logistics behind it would make it impossible, as well as the fact no one at the NSA was doing such a thing and were legally prevented from doing so by multiple restrictions and guidelines.

Can I interest you in trying a web search for “Team Themis”
plus any one or more of the following terms:
NSA
H B Gary
Berico
Palantir
Wikileaks
Bank of America
US Chamber of Commerce

456 Justanotherhuman  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 3:56:49pm

So, Scahill is getting cozy with Ron Paul? No surprise, really.


All of them are anti-US, anti-Obama assholes just looking for their 15 minutes. Libertarian lackeys.

457 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 3:58:35pm

much better:
Youtube Video

458 Kragar  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 3:59:10pm

re: #455 abolitionist

And the first article that came up was from Barret Brown.

So much for that exercise.

459 abolitionist  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 4:00:12pm

re: #458 Kragar

Well, I tried.

460 Pie-onist Overlord  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 4:03:45pm

My daughter-in-law posted this on FB:

461 Kragar  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 4:05:03pm

OFFS

462 Charles Johnson  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 4:06:11pm

re: #419 simoom

I have a huge amount of respect for what Daniel Ellsberg did to bring out the truth about the Vietnam War - his case was one of the best examples of a whistleblower I can think of.

Unfortunately, I strongly disagree with him on Snowden. The cases are not even close to equivalent, and Ellsberg doesn’t get some kind of magical ability to bestow whistleblower-hood on other people just because of his history. He did a great thing he can always be proud of, but he’s sadly over the top on this issue.

463 darthstar  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 4:06:16pm

re: #461 Kragar

OFFS

[Embedded content]

Maybe if we turn back all those pesky child labor laws.

464 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 4:06:34pm

toooooo cute
Youtube Video

465 RealityBasedSteve  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 4:06:45pm

re: #460 Pie-onist Overlord

My daughter-in-law posted this on FB:
[Embedded image]

I heard on NPR the other day that one factor that seemed to be actually reducing the rates of teen pregnancy is the show “16 and Pregnant”. Seems like an honest dose of reality makes it a lot less attractive.

RBS

466 dog philosopher  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 4:06:54pm

re: #455 abolitionist

Can I interest you in trying a web search for “Team Themis”
plus any one or more of the following terms:
NSA
H B Gary
Berico
Palantir
Wikileaks
Bank of America
US Chamber of Commerce

i’m happy to say palantir became a fully fledged customer of mine last month

467 Eclectic Cyborg  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 4:06:54pm

re: #461 Kragar

Sure it creates jobs….for babysitters and SNAP administrators.

468 Varek Raith  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 4:07:04pm

re: #461 Kragar

OFFS

[Embedded content]

If only facepalming created jobs…

469 Kragar  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 4:08:27pm

“It very much promotes job creation for all the care and services and so on that need to be provided by a lot of people to raise children.”

Yes, because having children automatically means you’ll have a job and have all the money you need to cover all their care and services, especially when you’ve been denied or could not afford birth control.

470 thedopefishlives  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 4:08:32pm

re: #465 RealityBasedSteve

I heard on NPR the other day that one factor that seemed to be actually reducing the rates of teen pregnancy is the show “16 and Pregnant”. Seems like an honest dose of reality makes it a lot less attractive.

RBS

The one and only thing that reality TV might be good for.

471 Targetpractice  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 4:11:48pm

re: #469 Kragar

“It very much promotes job creation for all the care and services and so on that need to be provided by a lot of people to raise children.”

Yes, because having children automatically means you’ll have a job and have all the money you need to cover all their care and services, especially when you’ve been denied or could not afford birth control.

Yes, it creates jobs in industries that they absolutely refuse to fund, creates demand for teachers that they think are paid too much, and adds millions more people on the dole in an economy where most of the jobs are being shipped overseas or automated into obsolescence.

472 simoom  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 4:15:42pm

Ellsberg, says he’s being surveilled (based on nothing), in response to this question:
“Do you believe the government has you under close surveillance? Has anything happened to you that might make you believe so?”

reddit.com

Yes, now that I’ve been endorsing Manning and Snowden and challenging the “executive coup” that I believe took place after 9-11. No, I can’t point to specific harassment. But remember: Snowden has revealed that NSA has us ALL under surveillance. I’m just guessing that I’m one of the many (millions?) that are targeted for special attention.

He later walks it back a bit, and then goes all Alex Jones again, in response to this push-back:
“It’s alarmist declarations like this that can only damage your cause”

reddit.com

Yes, I felt uneasy myself when I made that parenthetical remark. It was careless. What would be a better benchmark? I don’t know. It depends, of course, what you mean by “active.” (Does that sound like Clinton?) It does NOT mean that they listen in, live, on my phone calls. The FBI or NSA, with or without warrants, must do that to very few people at any one time. Perhaps almost none, sometimes. Nor that they are trailing me. Again, they still do that to some people part of the time (I’d be surprised if I ever had that, though who knows), even though they hardly ever have to do it nowadays with their ability to track most people as much as they want by their i-phones and GPS, etc.

How large is the list, started under Hoover, for people to be picked up for detention in case of “emergency,” “civil disturbance” like another 9-11? (That’s one I think I’m probably on, along with a lot of my friends; though it’s mainly Middle Easterners, at the moment, and Muslims). That could well be a million or more (or somewhat less).

Again, I apologize for my careless attribution of “millions” (“like myself”) earlier. I didn’t mean to be so grandiose.

473 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 4:16:52pm

re: #461 Kragar

OFFS

[Embedded content]

hmmm,

moar people = increase DEMAND for jobs
job rate unchanged = scarcity

Now normally a High Demand for a Scarce Resource would drive the price of that resources UP.

I don’t think it works that way with jobs, however.

474 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 4:17:21pm

I WAAAAANNNNNNT A GERMAN SHEPHERD
Youtube Video

475 Mattand  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 4:19:08pm

re: #472 simoom

So, Daniel Ellsberg is a paranoid kook. Lovely.

Right out of the “The Lack of Evidence IS the Evidence” School of Tin Foil…

476 wrenchwench  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 4:20:56pm

re: #461 Kragar

OFFS

[Embedded content]

By that logic, opening the borders to anyone who wishes to cross would also create jobs.

477 Eclectic Cyborg  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 4:22:28pm

re: #476 wrenchwench

By that logic, opening the borders to anyone who wishes to cross would also create jobs.

So would legalizing gay marriage and marijuana.

478 lawhawk  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 4:22:46pm

re: #462 Charles Johnson

I have a huge amount of respect for what Daniel Ellsberg did to bring out the truth about the Vietnam War - his case was one of the best examples of a whistleblower I can think of.

Unfortunately, I strongly disagree with him on Snowden. The cases are not even close to equivalent, and Ellsberg doesn’t get some kind of magical ability to bestow whistleblower-hood on other people just because of his history. He did a great thing he can always be proud of, but he’s sadly over the top on this issue.

Big difference as to what Ellsberg released and what Snowden has done to date. Ellsberg didn’t release means and methods, but statistics and sttudies showing how the US was losing the war. He didn’t reveal methods.

Snowden? He’s wantonly released all manner of documents that undermine NSA active ops.

But being a whistleblower once doesn’t make you arbiter of what whistle blowing is about or make you the decider of who gets to release information to the public that is otherwise classified.

Vastly inflated sense of self.

479 wrenchwench  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 4:22:57pm

re: #477 Eclectic Cyborg

So would legalizing gay marriage and marijuana.

And free healthcare for everyone.

480 darthstar  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 4:23:30pm

Something tells me you don’t want this little girl on a sugar high while you’re driving.

481 b_sharp  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 4:24:27pm

re: #474 FemNaziBitch

I WAAAAANNNNNNT A GERMAN SHEPHERD
[Embedded content]

Did I ever tell you (of course I did) that my mother had a kennel where she raised German Shepherds and Shelties?

Shepherds are my favourite dog.

482 EPR-radar  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 4:25:04pm

re: #461 Kragar

I’m surprised these ‘jobs’ weren’t for goons to staff a US version of a religious ‘morality police’.

As for the argument actually made, this economy has structurally generated a glut of labor in order to keep labor costs down. Increasing population growth in such a case makes as much sense as any other right wing economic proposal (i.e., it is so bad it ‘isn’t even wrong’).

483 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 4:27:19pm

re: #461 Kragar

OFFS

[Embedded content]

I’m still pondering this one.

What kind of jobs does it create? Simply being alive?

Well there is a need for a caregiver —parent (free) or child care worker (low wage job)

need for food —well, unless the person has a job —it means more welfare
clothing —ditto —and such textile jobs are created in foreign countries—retail stores are low wage jobs —transportation for said products, well, yes, those are probably good jobs —involves tarriffs and such.
shelter —ditto -well construction jobs are good jobs, but often involve unions and political corruption
health care —ditto—really, do you think we are going to graduate more pediatricans because there are more babies —more like more and longer waiting times. —more vaccines will have to be produced —mostly in foreign countries. Low wage health care workers administer vaccines.

I guess one could argue that the larger the community, more infrastructure is needed —water, roads, —but these are government jobs and GOP doesn’t like that.

Oh WAIT! more people means more CONGRESS CRITTERS! House critters, at least.

So, I guess the strategy is to get more white people to produce a quiver full of children to increase the number of GOP voters … .who will compete for fewer and fewer resources …

484 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 4:29:21pm

re: #469 Kragar

“It very much promotes job creation for all the care and services and so on that need to be provided by a lot of people to raise children.”

Yes, because having children automatically means you’ll have a job and have all the money you need to cover all their care and services, especially when you’ve been denied or could not afford birth control.

No, all that happens when you get married.

Goodness just falls from the sky.

:0

485 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 4:31:09pm

re: #480 darthstar

Something tells me you don’t want this little girl on a sugar high while you’re driving.

[Embedded content]

I had a dog that did this. She ripped the lid off and lapped it up. I had to have the interior of the car detailed because of the spoilt milk smell.

After that, I had to take my coffee with me into every store. Never dreamed of leaving the dog at home, she would have been really pissed if she didn’t go with.

I miss her.

486 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 4:32:00pm

re: #481 b_sharp

Did I ever tell you (of course I did) that my mother had a kennel where she raised German Shepherds and Shelties?

Shepherds are my favourite dog.

Mine too, I’m just not a candidate for a German Shepherd Puppy right now.

They need a lot of work!

487 b_sharp  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 4:33:35pm

re: #486 FemNaziBitch

Mine too, I’m just not a candidate for a German Shepherd Puppy right now.

They need a lot of work!

We couldn’t deal with a dog that size right now.

Besides, we’ll both probably be dead before the dog, and wouldn’t be fair to it.

488 FemNaziBitch  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 4:35:04pm

re: #487 b_sharp

We couldn’t deal with a dog that size right now.

Besides, we’ll both probably be dead before the dog, and wouldn’t be fair to it.

It’s not the size, it’s the daily on-going training and exercising for the first 2-3 years. doing it right can be a full-time job.

489 b_sharp  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 4:38:39pm

re: #488 FemNaziBitch

It’s not the size, it’s the daily on-going training and exercising for the first 2-3 years. doing it right can be a full-time job.

Small yard, big dog, big shit.

490 Eventual Carrion  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 5:06:43pm

re: #314 Kragar

I have it on good authority that girls did indeed rock their boys.

That sounds wild!

491 AlexRogan  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 5:28:26pm

re: #159 Kragar

“I’ve got no problem with Jesus but his fan club is full of dicks.” - Gandhi.

I might not be 100% accurate with that one.

Pretty good paraphrase, though.

492 abolitionist  Wed, Jan 15, 2014 6:23:24pm

re: #466 dog philosopher

i’m happy to say palantir became a fully fledged customer of mine last month

They have their own YT channel with nearly 300 vids; you might find some of interest — Palantir

493 BusyMonster  Thu, Jan 16, 2014 8:47:10am

re Joanne re #65

I’m very happy to see my retort was somewhat useful, even if it was replying to a derp-o-matic.

re makeitstop re: #130

When one talks of a thing, that thing must necessarily be in one’s mind.

Ergo, if one is talking of Teh Buttsecks 24x7, one is thinking of Teh Buttsecks, 24x7.

re: Blueraven

And yes, apparently my reply button is broken. Using Chrome.

Also, when I click on + to vote a comment up, it takes me to the front page.


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