Most See Inequality Growing, but Partisans Differ Over Solutions

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Should Government Do more About the Wealth Gap

There is broad public agreement that economic inequality has grown over the past decade. But as President Obama prepares for Tuesday’s State of the Union, where he is expected to unveil proposals for dealing with inequality and poverty, there are wide partisan differences over how much the government should - and can - do to address these issues.

The new national survey by the Pew Research Center and USA TODAY, conducted Jan. 15-19 among 1,504 adults, finds that 65% believe the gap between the rich and everyone else has increased in the last 10 years. This view is shared by majorities across nearly all groups in the public, including 68% of Democrats and 61% of Republicans.

Yet there is a sharp disagreement over whether this gap needs government attention. Among Democrats, 90% say the government should do “a lot” or “some” to reduce the gap between the rich and everyone else, including 62% who say it should do a lot. But only half as many Republicans (45%) think the government should do something about this gap, with just 23% saying it should do a lot. Instead, nearly half of Republicans say the government should do “not much” (15%) or “nothing at all” (33%) about the wealth divide.

More: Most See Inequality Growing, but Partisans Differ Over Solutions

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213 comments
1 Amory Blaine  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 10:33:17am

I’m sleeping way too well in this tropical setting. Last night I dreamt Scott Walker was driving me around while I helped him buy a food truck.

2 Kragar  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 10:34:11am

The GOP has no problem with wealth redistribution, as long as the money only goes up.

3 Targetpractice  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 10:36:10am

re: #2 Kragar

The GOP has no problem with wealth redistribution, as long as the money only goes up.

That’s because, once upon a time, a smooth-talking grandfatherly fellow upon a white steed told them that if the rich got richer, it would “trickle down” to the poor and raise all ships.

What he never told them was that, with the expansion and industrialization of foreign markets, the rich would take that money and run, so that the only thing “trickling down” now is piss atop the heads of the poor.

4 Kragar  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 10:36:44am
5 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 10:37:54am

re: #4 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Murdered to ‘send a message’ like the South in the Bad Old Days.

Youtube Video

6 Targetpractice  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 10:39:26am

re: #4 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Bitcoin is susceptible to fraud? The hell you say!

7 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 10:40:02am

re: #4 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Ugh..

8 Kragar  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 10:40:47am

re: #5 Dark_Falcon

I had posted the wrong tweet before.

For some reason, when I load a new tweet, the URL will stay the same as a previous one. Anyone else seen that happen?

9 Targetpractice  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 10:42:18am

10 AntonSirius  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 10:45:57am

re: #2 Kragar

The GOP has no problem with wealth redistribution, as long as the money only goes up.

Actually, according to that poll nearly half of Republicans (45%) still think the government should do something.

That looks like a potential wedge issue to me…

11 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave of the waffle light)  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 10:47:03am

re: #10 AntonSirius

Actually, according to that poll nearly half of Republicans (45%0 still think the government should do something.

That looks like a potential wedge issue to me…

It means they need to look like they are doing something…

12 Political Atheist  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 10:47:10am

Has anyone done a good paper comparing tax policy and mfg going offshore in terms of impact on middle class wages?

13 Targetpractice  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 10:47:13am

re: #10 AntonSirius

Actually, according to that poll nearly half of Republicans (45%0 still think the government should do something.

That looks like a potential wedge issue to me…

Every breakdown I’ve seen seems to say that, while Republicans think the government can do something, they seem to think “do something” is the same tired three-note song: “Lower taxes, more deregulation, and gutting welfare.”

14 Political Atheist  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 10:48:36am

Who is to blame for the offshoring of jobs? Can we put that at the feet of the GOP?

15 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 10:49:29am

Anatoly Pakhomov, the mayor of Sochi has decided to go for a Baghdad Bob Award:

Sochi Mayor Says There Are No Gay People In His City

16 Ryan King  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 10:50:37am

The whole problem with wealth trickling down is that it has to aggregate to a few at the top in the first place, and it will trickle down just because the wealthy will consume and hire the lesser classes.

As opposed to wealth growing by other avenues in addition to trickling down.

The ideal society in this simplistic world view is one where wealth is aggregated by a certain class then it magically releases to the rest because/capitalism.

17 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 10:50:37am

The Raw Story link:
West Virginia gun enthusiast kills two men without warning in mix-up over property line

I’m beginning to suspect a back story here, especially since a 1st degree murder charge requires definite evidence of planning and intent. Could Black not have accepted that the shed was part of the adjoining property and went with it in the sale?
The police have said Black had no previous interaction with the two victims, but what about the seller? In any case, he will probably never breathe free air again. West Virginia does not have the death penalty or he would be looking seriously at the needle.

18 Amory Blaine  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 10:54:10am

re: #14 Political Atheist

Conservatives of all striped give no shits about the plight of the middle class and the poor. The GOP is packed to the rafters with Freidman dickheads while the dems have their share as well.

19 Political Atheist  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 10:56:35am

re: #18 Amory Blaine

Conservatives of all striped give no shits about the plight of the middle class and the poor. The GOP is packed to the rafters with Freidman dickheads while the dems have their share as well.

Not this conservative, as it so happens. In any case I know a bunch of people that blame this inequality solely on Reagan and his tax charts. I beg to differ. The offshoring might be the big factor, not the tax charts.

20 Targetpractice  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 10:56:46am

re: #14 Political Atheist

Who is to blame for the offshoring of jobs? Can we put that at the feet of the GOP?

Not entirely, Democrats have gone along with various trade deals and tax changes that have encouraged the off-shoring of jobs. But Republicans do bear the bulk of the blame for encouraging a system where unearned income is taxed at obscenely low levels compared to earned income, which the rich exploited by sending jobs overseas and then reaping huge rewards on the stock market for “lowering costs.”

21 Dr. Matt  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 10:58:17am

re: #17 Shiplord Kirel

The Raw Story link:
West Virginia gun enthusiast kills two men without warning in mix-up over property line

An armed society is NOT a polite society. This story exemplifies what an armed society looks like; people murdering people over petty reasons whether it be thrown popcorn, a teenagaer wearing a hoody, or your neighbors minding their own business.

22 Amory Blaine  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 10:59:49am

Conservative want to cut food stamps, have ended welfare and want to turn Medicare into a voucher system, yes conservatives give no fucks about the poor or workers.

23 William Barnett-Lewis  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 11:00:47am

Charles, I’m trying to page this story: medium.com but the “create a page” pop just sits there saying “Loading”.

I am also unable to pull up the names of those who have dinged a post.

Can’t tell what version of the “create a page” applet I have.

Xubuntu 12.04 64 bit, Chrome Version 32.0.1700.77

24 Charles Johnson  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 11:01:57am

re: #23 William Barnett-Lewis

Charles, I’m trying to page this story: medium.com but the “create a page” pop just sits there saying “Loading”.

I am also unable to pull up the names of those who have dinged a post.

Can’t tell what version of the “create a page” applet I have.

Xubuntu 12.04 64 bit, Chrome Version 32.0.1700.77

I think you need to restart. Those are symptoms that Javascript is messed up.

25 Pie-onist Overlord  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 11:01:59am

HURR HURR!!!!11!! ALL LIBRULZ THINKS THIS WAY!!!11!!! HUCKABIE WAS WRITE!!!11!!!1

26 William Barnett-Lewis  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 11:04:02am

re: #17 Shiplord Kirel

There are lots of unanswered questions in that story. The biggest is if we’ll ever learn more than is already public or not.

27 Pie-onist Overlord  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 11:05:23am

FREE GUNZ 4 EVERYBODY!!!11!!!!!!!! EXCEPT TEH BLAHS & TEH WIMMENZ & TEH BROWNS & TEH MUSLIMS. BUT FOR EVERYBODY1!!!1!!!!

28 William Barnett-Lewis  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 11:05:35am

re: #21 Dr. Matt

An armed society is NOT polite society. This is story exemplifies what an armed society looks like; people murdering people over petty reasons whether it be thrown popcorn, a teenagaer wearing a hoody, or your neighbors minding their own business.

If you actually read the story that phrase comes from, you’ll find that Mr. Conservative Heinlein wasn’t too hip on the idea either - and for much the same reason.

29 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 11:07:18am

re: #15 Dark_Falcon

Anatoly Pakhomov, the mayor of Sochi has decided to go for a Baghdad Bob Award:

Sochi Mayor Says There Are No Gay People In His City

30 lawhawk  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 11:07:41am

re: #20 Targetpractice

I’m okay with unearned income like capital gains being taxed at a lower rate since the policy objective is to encourage investment, but the rates need to be reevaluated.

Long term cap gains ought to be taxed at a rate that is lower than the ordinary income rate, but not at the current 15/20% rate.

While Alouette mentioned in the dead thread the fact that noise is being made of the fact that some states are approaching 50% marginal income, the fact is that few would ever see that rate - ever - with the current tax policy.

The top tax rate only applies to the income over the top tax rate. And people who are in the top tax rate are often those who have significant non-ordinary income (dividends, capital gains), so their rate will be much lower than claimed.

Where adjusting the capital gains/dividends tax rate runs into trouble is to find a balance between encouraging investment and raising revenues. It also raises questions of complexity with a tax system that is already overly complex.

One possibility is to apply the rates as follows:

Current Bracket / Capital gains long term rate
10% / 0%
15% / 0%
25% / 10%
28% / 15%
33% / 25%
35% / 28%
39.60% / 33%

The long term rate essentially becomes the rate from two brackets beneath your own for ordinary income. I’d have to see how much revenue this would raise.

Thing is that most people would accept this kind of rate change/increase if you can direct where the revenues go specifically. If you say it’s going to go towards road/bridge fund, they’ll buy it. If it gets lost into the maw of the general fund, not so much.

31 Rev_Arthur_Belling  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 11:07:45am

On a sorta related topic, this:

dailycaller.com

via Gawker.

I met her at the Heritage Foundation Christmas party. She was wearing a purple dress and looked hot standing next to Grover Norquist, if only by comparison. She had a boyfriend at that time, but I was like ‘Whatever.’

32 Dr. Matt  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 11:09:10am

re: #28 William Barnett-Lewis

If you actually read the story that phrase comes from, you’ll find that Mr. Conservative Heinlein wasn’t too hip on the idea either - and for much the same reason.

Unfortunately the RWNJs believe “an armed society is a polite society” as scripture.

33 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 11:09:23am

Kim Jong-Un orders generational murder:

The direct relatives of the executed uncle of Kim Jong-Un have been put to death upon the orders of the North Korean leader, it has been reported.

Jang Song-Thaek’s children, brothers and grandchildren have been condemned to death, according to media reports in South Korea.

Jang, 67, was executed last month, after being accused of plotting to overthrow the communist regime.

I don’t have any words of my own for this one.

34 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 11:10:50am

I never have understood the idea that “an armed society is a polite society.”
However much I might want to, I am not in the habit of shooting rude and ill mannered people even when I have a weapon handy. If I were, I would probably have run out of ammo or the SWAT team would have gotten me before I could have finished my morning commute in Lubbock.

35 William Barnett-Lewis  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 11:12:59am

re: #24 Charles Johnson

I think you need to restart. Those are symptoms that Javascript is messed up.

Restarted. The “dings” popup works fine but the applet is still not working. Just in case of an old version, I dragged a new copy to the bookmark bar and tried it as well. I still just get it sitting there saying “loading”.

If I click on the add a page button at the top of this page, it pops up populated with the information from this page and I can edit it fine - which I’ll finish to post this one.

36 Amory Blaine  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 11:13:01am

re: #30 lawhawk

Too trickle down for me. Unearned income needs to be taxed higher and lower incomes lower. Overseas money needs to be looked at harder and confiscated if found to be crooked. Innovation and investment will come out of middle class garages if they’re not hamstrung by being nickeled and dimed to death. The rich can stand a giant tax increase. The display of wealth is obscene.

37 blueraven  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 11:14:03am

CNN SORRY after clumsy edit shows Hillary Clinton ‘laughing about’ Benghazi deaths

Thanks CNN…for making an ad to run on Fox news ad nauseam.

38 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave of the waffle light)  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 11:14:23am

re: #21 Dr. Matt

An armed society is NOT polite society. This is story exemplifies what an armed society looks like; people murdering people over petty reasons whether it be thrown popcorn, a teenagaer wearing a hoody, or your neighbors minding their own business.

Of course…if those fellows entering the shed had been armed, then the gentlemen would have all engaged in a friendly discussion about how much they dislike Obama and the afternoon would have ended in a round of shooting empty beer bottles they had just finished…

39 lawhawk  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 11:14:34am

re: #36 Amory Blaine

The GOP and conservatives are looking to get FATCA repealed, even though that law is intended to go after domestic individuals and corporations offshoring income to avoid taxation.

40 kerFuFFler  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 11:14:37am

re: #10 AntonSirius

Actually, according to that poll nearly half of Republicans (45%) still think the government should do something.

That looks like a potential wedge issue to me…

If the ideas presented on Bill Maher last Friday are any kind of indicator, the GOP has decided to frame the issue of income inequality as being most importantly a problem of the lack of socioeconomic mobility. This way they can focus on a bunch of ridiculous educational initiatives that they already favor——-like charter schools and so on———and act like they are addressing income inequality. They seem to blithely accept that some people will get a VERY short end of the stick but just want to make sure that the folks who do really deserve it!.

41 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 11:14:55am

re: #36 Amory Blaine

Too trickle down for me. Unearned income needs to be taxed higher and lower incomes lower. Overseas money needs to be looked at harder and confiscated if found to be crooked. Innovation and investment will come out of middle class garages if they’re not hamstrung by being nickeled and dimed to death. The rich can stand a giant tax increase. The display of wealth is obscene.

Define ‘crooked’.

42 Justanotherhuman  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 11:15:09am

re: #33 Dark_Falcon

Kim Jong-Un orders generational murder:

I don’t have any words of my own for this one.

This is what happens when a 28 yr old immature, spoiled and pampered elite takes over a country. He begins to think he’s a god over the people, and he can get away with it. He gives new meaning to the word, “bastard”.

43 Amory Blaine  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 11:15:45am

re: #41 Dark_Falcon

Deliberately hiding and keeping money overseas to avoid taxes.

44 Kragar  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 11:16:26am

Heinlein also suggested that until someone served their community doing something useful, they should not be allowed to vote or run for public office.

Suck on that gun humpers.

45 BAGHORN  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 11:16:57am

re: #36 Amory Blaine

The display of wealth is obscene.

Only to the envious among us…

46 Amory Blaine  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 11:18:14am

re: #39 lawhawk

Here’s a populist sentiment, pay up or GTFO.

47 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave of the waffle light)  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 11:18:15am

re: #44 Kragar

Heinlein also suggested that until someone served their community doing something useful, they should not be allowed to vote or run for public office.

Suck on that gun humpers.

Not just “doing something useful”, but putting their life and health at risk in doing so. that is, demonstrating that they were willing to put the common good above their own personal gain.

48 Pie-onist Overlord  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 11:18:27am

WTFITS I just can’t even.
Pamela you have NO IDEA what a “Blood Libel” is do you?

49 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 11:20:14am

re: #14 Political Atheist

Who is to blame for the offshoring of jobs? Can we put that at the feet of the GOP?

I think that has been a bit of a bipartisan effort.

50 Targetpractice  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 11:20:18am

re: #47 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave of the waffle light)

Not just “doing something useful”, but putting their life and health at risk in doing so. that is, demonstrating that they were willing to put the common good above their own personal gain.

Eh, not really. The bulk of those who signed up for federal service did so in whatever career was felt useful, even if that meant you spent 5 years as a janitor or a filing clerk. Only a small fraction of those who applied ended up as military grunts.

51 Kragar  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 11:20:36am

re: #47 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave of the waffle light)

Not necessarily. In the book, service did not mean military service. His best friend ended up as a scientific researcher, and they said some people ended up doing construction and other jobs as well.

52 b_sharp  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 11:21:02am

re: #2 Kragar

The GOP has no problem with wealth redistribution, as long as the money only goes up.

They believe the 1% are the real owners of the money and are entitled to keep whatever their businesses make. Employees are replaceable components of the business - automatons to be upgraded or trashed.

That the business owner is likely not capable of making any money without employees is not considered.

53 Kragar  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 11:22:37am

re: #52 b_sharp

They belief the 1% are the real owners of the money and are entitled to keep whatever their businesses make. Employees are replaceable components of the business - automatons to be upgraded or trashed.

That the business owner is likely not capable of making any money without employees is not considered.

Hell, they don’t even think employees should be allowed to buy things their bosses don’t approve of.

54 Justanotherhuman  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 11:22:44am

This is awful, in addition to those injured along with journalists being attacked and jailed.

Additionally, Russia’s Foreign Minister Lavrov calls Ukraine protestors “fascist thugs”.

55 Targetpractice  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 11:23:06am

re: #52 b_sharp

They belief the 1% are the real owners of the money and are entitled to keep whatever their businesses make. Employees are replaceable components of the business - automatons to be upgraded or trashed.

That the business owner is likely not capable of making any money without employees is not considered.

That’s because the owner sees most employees as cheaper than a robot, but only slightly more expensive than sending the job to another country.

56 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave of the waffle light)  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 11:23:18am

re: #52 b_sharp

They belief the 1% are the real owners of the money and are entitled to keep whatever their businesses make. Employees are replaceable components of the business - automatons to be upgraded or trashed.

That the business owner is likely not capable of making any money without employees is not considered.

This is my problem with the “liberal economic” (as in bat-shit Free Market conservative) view of labor: it is just another commodity, a cost factor to be minimzed. But toner, staples or copier paper do not care if they are discarded.

When people are discarded and no longer to make a living from full-time work, then society has to pick up the costs one way or another.

57 Dr. Matt  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 11:23:33am

re: #38 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave of the waffle light)

Of course…if those fellows entering the shed had been armed, then the gentlemen would have all engaged in a friendly discussion about how much they dislike Obama and the afternoon would have ended in a round of shooting empty beer bottles they had just finished…

Precisely. Just like we should get rid of those pesky “gun free zones” at schools. Because there should never be anything strange about someone walking on to a school yard with an AR in their hands. It should be just handled as business as usual.

58 Amory Blaine  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 11:23:52am

It’s hard to take people who dodged the draft lecturing on income inequality and “equality of opportunity” with anything less than contempt. When Mittsy was playing in the French Riviera like a coward, my dad was overseas doing his duty to the severe detriment to my family. As I know is going on today with our volunteer force.

59 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 11:23:56am

re: #50 Targetpractice

Eh, not really. The bulk of those who signed up for federal service did so in whatever career was felt useful, even if that meant you spent 5 years as a janitor or a filing clerk. Only a small fraction of those who applied ended up as military grunts.

And most of the people in the Federation’s military still wouldn’t be combat troops. The combat element of a military is normally a third of its personnel strength at most.

60 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave of the waffle light)  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 11:24:35am

re: #57 Dr. Matt

Precisely. Just like we should get rid of those pesky “gun free zones” at schools. Because there should never be anything strange about someone walking on to a school yard with an AR in their hands. It should be just handled as business as usual.

As long as he knows that all the teachers and staff are also armed with AR-15, he will be the soul of politeness and deference…

61 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 11:24:39am

re: #53 Kragar

Hell, they don’t even think employees should be allowed to buy things their bosses don’t approve of.

Explain, please.

62 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 11:24:54am

re: #30 lawhawk

Though, in a certain sense, all funds are the General Fund since if you know/expect that a special revenue source is going to go to a particular project or department then you don’t budget that department as much out of your general income stream.

And this argument is of course twisted to make all sorts of different points.
O_o

63 b_sharp  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 11:24:59am

re: #14 Political Atheist

Who is to blame for the offshoring of jobs? Can we put that at the feet of the GOP?

That’s a direct result of the free market. No one party is at fault.

To benefit the majority of people, the free market needs to be a partially managed market.

Free market was tried in 18th & 19th century Britain. It caused a large gap between haves and have-nots.

64 Kragar  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 11:25:12am

re: #54 Justanotherhuman

This is awful, in addition to those injured along with journalists being attacked and jailed.

[Embedded content]

One of the journalist attack, very disturbing picture

65 wrenchwench  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 11:25:18am

re: #45 BAGHORN

Greetings, hatchling.

66 Targetpractice  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 11:25:24am

re: #59 Dark_Falcon

And most of the people in the Federation’s military still wouldn’t be combat troops. The combat element of a military is normally a third of its personnel strength at most.

But that would be because the Federal military of Heinlein’s book were loaded with force multipliers like powered armor that allowed a simple grunt to wield the same firepower as a platoon of men with just body armor and rifles.

67 Amory Blaine  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 11:25:40am

re: #63 b_sharp

It’s not a free market.

68 Rev_Arthur_Belling  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 11:25:51am

re: #61 Dark_Falcon

think that means contraceptives under Obamacare.

69 chadu  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 11:26:41am

re: #25 Pie-onist Overlord

HURR HURR!!!!11!! ALL LIBRULZ THINKS THIS WAY!!!11!!! HUCKABIE WAS WRITE!!!11!!!1

[Embedded content]

RWNJ know you have to take BC pills every day, not just before doing the nasty, right?

70 Charles Johnson  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 11:26:42am

re: #35 William Barnett-Lewis

Restarted. The “dings” popup works fine but the applet is still not working. Just in case of an old version, I dragged a new copy to the bookmark bar and tried it as well. I still just get it sitting there saying “loading”.

If I click on the add a page button at the top of this page, it pops up populated with the information from this page and I can edit it fine - which I’ll finish to post this one.

It’s working fine here - I went to the page at Medium and the Pages window pops right up. Did you try closing the window and opening it again?

71 b_sharp  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 11:26:54am

re: #21 Dr. Matt

An armed society is NOT a polite society. This story exemplifies what an armed society looks like; people murdering people over petty reasons whether it be thrown popcorn, a teenagaer wearing a hoody, or your neighbors minding their own business.

Aren’t many countries ‘armed’ and not particularly polite?

72 Kragar  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 11:27:43am

re: #59 Dark_Falcon

And most of the people in the Federation’s military still wouldn’t be combat troops. The combat element of a military is normally a third of its personnel strength at most.

Except the MI was supposed to maximize its combat strength by cross-training their troops in other duties so they had more line troops.

73 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 11:27:51am

re: #66 Targetpractice

But that would be because the Federal military of Heinlein’s book were loaded with force multipliers like powered armor that allowed a simple grunt to wield the same firepower as a platoon of men with just body armor and rifles.

It was true during WWII. For every suit of powered armor, there’s likely 3-4 people supporting it in various logistical functions.

74 Pie-onist Overlord  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 11:28:06am

re: #69 chadu

RWNJ know you have to take BC pills every day, not >just before doing the nasty, right?

TEH BIRF CONTROL PILLS IS JUST LIKE TEH CONDOMS BECAUSE RUSH SAID SO!!!!1!!!!!!!

75 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 11:28:26am

re: #42 Justanotherhuman

This is what happens when a 28 yr old immature, spoiled and pampered elite takes over a country. He begins to think he’s a god over the people, and he can get away with it. He gives new meaning to the word, “bastard”.

I suspect more that he is calculating enough to try to make sure a relative does not turn up later on trying to organize resistance out of a desire for revenge. Plus the example made that if someone crosses him, even with a martyr complex, that they *and* their family will get it.

76 Dr. Matt  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 11:28:31am

re: #71 b_sharp

Aren’t many countries ‘armed’ and not particularly polite?

Yes, but those countries are filled with brown people.

//

77 BAGHORN  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 11:28:42am

re: #65 wrenchwench

Greetings, hatchling.

Thanks!

Greetings all! I may not fit well here, but I love to see what my ideological counterparts are thinking.

78 Eventual Carrion  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 11:28:56am

re: #45 BAGHORN

Only to the envious among us…

Yes, envious of the food they get to eat while they (the envious among us) get to starve because the youngest child had the audacity to need their appendix taken out.

79 Pie-onist Overlord  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 11:29:07am

HURR HURR I AM TEH PATRIOT!!!1!!! PUTIN FOR PRESIDENT!!!1!!!!

80 Bulworth  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 11:29:15am

re: #27 Pie-onist Overlord

FREE GUNZ 4 EVERYBODY!!!11!!!!!!!! EXCEPT TEH BLAHS & TEH WIMMENZ & TEH BROWNS & TEH MUSLIMS. BUT FOR EVERYBODY1!!!1!!!!

Oh, so all “abled bodied men” need to belong to an active militia? ///

81 William Barnett-Lewis  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 11:29:25am

re: #70 Charles Johnson

It’s working fine here - I went to the page at Medium and the Pages window pops right up. Did you try closing the window and opening it again?

Yep. I’m beginning to think the problem is this build of Chrome on Ubuntu. It’s functional now so I’ll keep and eye open for a new build and see if that changes anything.

82 Charles Johnson  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 11:29:31am

re: #35 William Barnett-Lewis

Restarted. The “dings” popup works fine but the applet is still not working. Just in case of an old version, I dragged a new copy to the bookmark bar and tried it as well. I still just get it sitting there saying “loading”.

If I click on the add a page button at the top of this page, it pops up populated with the information from this page and I can edit it fine - which I’ll finish to post this one.

Also… I just made a small change to the bookmarklet code, so you can try reinstalling it again to see if it helps. (Reload LGF first to make sure the new bookmarklet code is there in the “Create A Page” button.)

83 Pie-onist Overlord  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 11:29:43am

re: #77 BAGHORN

Thanks!

Greetings all! I may not fit well here, but I love to see what my ideological counterparts are thinking.

Where did you come from?

84 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 11:29:56am

re: #72 Kragar

Except the MI was supposed to maximize its combat strength by cross-training their troops in other duties so they had more line troops.

That why I cited a number close to the maximum. The cross-training gives some extra room and would also allow rotation enable experienced people to pass on lessons learned.

85 GunstarGreen  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 11:30:16am

re: #55 Targetpractice

That’s because the owner sees most employees as cheaper than a robot, but only slightly more expensive than sending the job to another country.

Pretty much.

Back when I was doing my time in the K empire, the level of completely uncaring bullshit I was exposed to was enough to completely and irrevocably disabuse me of the notion that employers give even the slightest hint of a shit about the people that work for them.

They made me sit through HOURS of training videos. Made me sign documentation to the effect that I’d viewed and understood them. Then when situations arose that called right back to those videos, and I asked why store procedure was clearly in violation of what was shown in those videos, I got nothing but annoyed and frustrated looks from management.

They literally got exasperated with me for actually following the material THEY forced me to sit through and sign forms vowing that I understood.

This has been the case in America for a very long time. And as long as it remains the case, I will hear none of this bullshit about benevolent “job creators”. Scum, all of them.

86 klys  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 11:30:29am

re: #61 Dark_Falcon

Explain, please.

Health insurance is generally considered part of job compensation in the US and yet Republicans support efforts to allow companies to withhold a range of preventative women’s health treatments because it might go against the employer’s religious beliefs.

87 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 11:30:34am

BBL

88 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 11:30:49am

re: #7 NJDhockeyfan

Ugh..

[Embedded content]

But..but… Snowden is being brutalized too.

89 Backwoods_Sleuth  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 11:31:56am

re: #38 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave of the waffle light)

Of course…if those fellows entering the shed had been armed, then the gentlemen would have all engaged in a friendly discussion about how much they dislike Obama and the afternoon would have ended in a round of shooting empty beer bottles they had just finished…

Sadly, that it truer than most people realize…

90 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 11:32:16am

re: #86 klys

Health insurance is generally considered part of job compensation in the US and yet Republicans support efforts to allow companies to withhold a range of preventative women’s health treatments because it might go against the employer’s religious beliefs.

Why should a warehouse worker’s supervisor, by firing him, get to decide if his kid gets cancer treatment?

91 Justanotherhuman  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 11:32:43am

re: #75 Feline Fearless Leader

I suspect more that he is calculating enough to try to make sure a relative does not turn up later on trying to organize resistance out of a desire for revenge. Plus the example made that if someone crosses him, even with a martyr complex, that they *and* their family will get it.

I don’t care how “calculating” he is. This is murder, and he’s implicit in the genocide of the North Korean population as well. But he will never be hauled off to The Hague and made to pay for his crimes.

At some point, someone within his regime is going to go off and say, fuck it, he’s going to kill me, too, at some point with some trumped up charges, so what do I have to lose by killing him first?

92 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 11:32:49am

re: #61 Dark_Falcon

Explain, please.

Reference to having their health insurance policies include the cost of contraceptives.

93 William Barnett-Lewis  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 11:33:18am

re: #82 Charles Johnson

Also… I just made a small change to the bookmarklet code, so you can try reinstalling it again to see if it helps. (Reload LGF first to make sure the new bookmarklet code is there in the “Create A Page” button.)

Ctrl R, drag, click & it works fine. Thank you.

94 BAGHORN  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 11:34:07am

re: #78 Eventual Carrion

Yes, envious of the food they get to eat while they (the envious among us) get to starve because the youngest child had the audacity to need their appendix taken out.

Like one precludes the other….. economics isn’t a zero-sum affair. If a rich man has less, you (we) don’t have more.

95 Charles Johnson  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 11:34:45am

re: #81 William Barnett-Lewis

Yep. I’m beginning to think the problme is this build of Chrome on Ubuntu. It’s functional now so I’ll keep and eye open for a new build and see if that changes anything.

Ah - I just tried Chrome, and sure enough there’s a problem with Medium. Chrome is blocking the loading of the Pages window because Medium uses HTTPS connections and LGF doesn’t. Hmm.

96 klys  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 11:34:52am

re: #90 Decatur Deb

Why should a warehouse worker’s supervisor, by firing him, get to decide if his kid gets cancer treatment?

Siiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiingle payer!

But no, it’s better to have choices. Apparently. (I made the mistake of talking health insurance with my mother-in-law last phone call. WHY DO I DO THIS TO MYSELF? “The doctors I know are concerned they’re not going to be able to order all the tests they need to and the quality of care is going to drop with all these new patients for Obamacare.” THEN BRING IT UP WITH THE FUCKING INSURANCE COMPANIES. Ahem.)

97 Mattand  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 11:35:30am

re: #79 Pie-onist Overlord

HURR HURR I AM TEH PATRIOT!!!1!!! PUTIN FOR PRESIDENT!!!1!!!!

[Embedded content]

My first thought was “Obama doesn’t need to make a statement, you dope; it’s in the First Amendment”, but then I saw the second part about minorities.

Nope, no xenophobia/bigotry in conservative circles here!

I have a relative who is as racist as the day is long, but cops to it. It doesn’t make his views any less noxious, but at least he’s up front about it.

I really wish the modern conservative/Republican party would make this small effort. Maybe admitting the problem will help beat it. Each passing week, though, makes me realize how I horribly underestimated their reaction would be to having a black man as President.

98 Targetpractice  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 11:35:48am

re: #79 Pie-onist Overlord

HURR HURR I AM TEH PATRIOT!!!1!!! PUTIN FOR PRESIDENT!!!1!!!!

[Embedded content]

They do loves them some authoritarian dictatorship, don’t they?

99 Pie-onist Overlord  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 11:36:38am

re: #94 BAGHORN

Like one precludes the other….. economics isn’t a zero-sum affair. If a rich man has less, you (we) don’t have more.

Are you a Boetcker-bot? HURR HURR BLAME TEH POORS!!!11!!!!

You cannot bring about prosperity by discouraging thrift.
You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong.
You cannot help little men by tearing down big men.
You cannot lift the wage earner by pulling down the wage payer.
You cannot help the poor by destroying the rich.
You cannot establish sound security on borrowed money.
You cannot further the brotherhood of man by inciting class hatred.
You cannot keep out of trouble by spending more than you earn.
You cannot build character and courage by destroying men’s initiative and independence.
And you cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they can and should do for themselves.

100 b_sharp  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 11:36:57am

re: #67 Amory Blaine

It’s not a free market.

What isn’t?

101 chadu  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 11:37:52am

re: #86 klys

re: #87 Dark_Falcon

0.05 seconds.

Not implying nuffink. ///

102 Political Atheist  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 11:38:15am

You guys remember that great economy we had in the ‘90’s. People job shopping like crazy. looks like those tax charts might be just about right to have a great economy again. Higher taxes here won’t put jobs on the street or food on the table.

Thing is,… what will?

103 GunstarGreen  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 11:39:53am

re: #94 BAGHORN

Like one precludes the other….. economics isn’t a zero-sum affair. If a rich man has less, you (we) don’t have more.

Correct. But when the rich man has more, he generally does it by slashing your (our) compensation to fund his own. As is clearly demonstrated when one takes a gander at charts that show average compensation for blue-collar workers vs. executives over the past ~40 years, and compares them with charts of productivity-per-worker over the same time period.

Does the CEO really need another 10 million dollars in his 10+ million dollar compensation package? Or would it be better to pay for average American yearly wages (about 40K) for 250 more workers? I suppose not, because after all, we need to attract and keep the Best And Brightest™, which have done such a fantastic job as of late — tanking so many companies straight into the ground, and all. Damn but those golden parachutes sure are pretty.

104 aagcobb  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 11:40:22am

re: #33 Dark_Falcon

Kim Jong-Un orders generational murder:

I don’t have any words of my own for this one.

Very typical of dynastic rulers to murder family members who might have a claim on the throne. The Ptolemys were particularly noted for this. Its just very strange to see in the 21st Century.

105 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 11:40:55am

re: #102 Political Atheist

You guys remember that great economy we had in the ‘90’s. People job shopping like crazy. looks like those tax charts might be just about right to have a great economy again. Higher taxes here won’t put jobs on the street or food on the table.

Thing is,… what will?

Higher taxes turned into massive state and federal infrastructure projects, which we desperately need.

106 wrenchwench  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 11:41:18am

re: #102 Political Atheist

You guys remember that great economy we had in the ‘90’s. People job shopping like crazy. looks like those tax charts might be just about right to have a great economy again. Higher taxes here won’t put jobs on the street or food on the table.

Thing is,… what will?

No taxes on the first $50,000 for the self-employed.

I thought of that a couple days ago. It’s growing on me, especially as April 15th approaches.

Small businesses create the most jobs, and even if the self-employed don’t hire anyone else, it’s still one job. Obamacare makes this possible.

107 Justanotherhuman  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 11:41:35am

Two developments in Ukraine:

President meeting with opposition leaders

7:40 p.m. President Viktor Yanukovych, his working group for settling political crises and leaders of opposition factions have started a new round of talks, according to the presidential press-service. Presidential deputy chief of staff Andriy Portnov, Justice Minister Olena Lukash, leader of the UDAR parliamentary faction Vitali Klitschko, leader of the Batkivschyna party faction Arseniy Yatseniuk and leader of the Svoboda faction Oleh Tiahnybok are taking part in the meeting which is held in Presidential Administration. — Anastasia Forina

AutoMaidan leader still missing

7:25 p.m., Jan. 27 — Dmytro Bulatov, the AutoMaidan leader who went missing last week, is still missing. AutoMaidan is an offshoot of the EuroMaidan movment. As the leader, Bulatov organized automobile caravans that irritated top public officials with pickets outside their luxury homes. A reward of $100,000 has been offered for information leading to Bulatov’s whereabouts. — Mark Rachkevych

kyivpost.com

108 Kragar  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 11:42:51am
109 TedStriker  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 11:43:33am

re: #50 Targetpractice

Eh, not really. The bulk of those who signed up for federal service did so in whatever career was felt useful, even if that meant you spent 5 years as a janitor or a filing clerk. Only a small fraction of those who applied ended up as military grunts.

A proper military force either runs like a well-oiled machine or grinds to a halt because of its REMFs.

110 Eventual Carrion  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 11:44:34am

re: #94 BAGHORN

Like one precludes the other….. economics isn’t a zero-sum affair. If a rich man has less, you (we) don’t have more.

When the top percent owns 87% of the wealth and only pay 70 - 75% of the taxes, who picks up the slack? If the top percent paid their fair share (rich man has a little less) the the poor/middle would not have to pick up their slack (hence have a little more of their limited income available to them).

111 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 11:44:50am

re: #109 AlexRogan

A proper military force runs well or grinds to a halt because of its REMFs.

Just shut up and fill out the 2753.

112 Amory Blaine  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 11:44:59am

re: #102 Political Atheist

You guys remember that great economy we had in the ‘90’s. People job shopping like crazy. looks like those tax charts might be just about right to have a great economy again. Higher taxes here won’t put jobs on the street or food on the table.

Thing is,… what will?

How about 0% capital gains, no minimum wage and child labor? The jobs will be falling out of our asses!!

113 Targetpractice  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 11:45:20am

re: #107 Justanotherhuman

Two developments in Ukraine:

President meeting with opposition leaders

7:40 p.m. President Viktor Yanukovych, his working group for settling political crises and leaders of opposition factions have started a new round of talks, according to the presidential press-service. Presidential deputy chief of staff Andriy Portnov, Justice Minister Olena Lukash, leader of the UDAR parliamentary faction Vitali Klitschko, leader of the Batkivschyna party faction Arseniy Yatseniuk and leader of the Svoboda faction Oleh Tiahnybok are taking part in the meeting which is held in Presidential Administration. — Anastasia Forina

AutoMaidan leader still missing

7:25 p.m., Jan. 27 — Dmytro Bulatov, the AutoMaidan leader who went missing last week, is still missing. AutoMaidan is an offshoot of the EuroMaidan movment. As the leader, Bulatov organized automobile caravans that irritated top public officials with pickets outside their luxury homes. A reward of $100,000 has been offered for information leading to Bulatov’s whereabouts. — Mark Rachkevych

kyivpost.com

So, what will Yanuk’s offer be this time? He’s lost even more ground since the last round of talks and his attempt the same night to set up special forces troops to break up protesters the following morning failed, either he’s ready to talk turkey or he’s giving them an ultimatum before he starts cracking skulls.

114 Kragar  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 11:45:49am

re: #112 Amory Blaine

How about 0% capital gains, no minimum wage and child labor? The jobs will be falling out of our asses!!

What we need are more press gangs and Pinkertons.

115 Targetpractice  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 11:46:32am

re: #114 Kragar

What we need are more press gangs and Pinkertons.

Are there no prisons? Are their no workhouses?

116 lawhawk  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 11:47:51am

Companies were quite profitable when the ratio of typical worker salaries to those of the CEO were 10-1 or 20-1. In the 1980s, it was 58-1.

Now? The ratio is over 1000-1 or more in many instances. And in some cases, it’s for companies that the CEO has essentially run into the ground (like JC Penny).

[edited to add] Note that the 1980s was in the middle of the Reagan years, when tax rates were still higher than they are now. The top tax rate was 50% until the tax act of 1986, which reduced the top rate to 38.5% beginning in 1987 and then down to 28% in 1988.

117 jaunte  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 11:48:13am

re: #102 Political Atheist

You guys remember that great economy we had in the ‘90’s. People job shopping like crazy. looks like those tax charts might be just about right to have a great economy again. Higher taxes here won’t put jobs on the street or food on the table.

Thing is,… what will?

We should stop using prison labor.
money.cnn.com

118 Pie-onist Overlord  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 11:48:51am

re: #116 lawhawk

Companies were quite profitable when the ratio of typical worker salaries to those of the CEO were 10-1 or 20-1. In the 1980s, it was 58-1.

Now? The ratio is over 1000-1 or more in many instances. And in some cases, it’s for companies that the CEO has essentially run into the ground (like JC Penny).

The Ayn Rand-Worshipping Sears CEO That Blew Up His Multibillion Dollar Empire

119 Amory Blaine  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 11:50:06am

Bullshit. The rich need to pay up. Falling out of the right vagina doesn’t mean you deserve shit. Shifting jobs overseas so that I can pay 10.00 for a toaster instead of 11.00 is a suckers game. This expensive military doesn’t protect my interests. It protects Exxon, Walmart and Nike. Let them fucking pay for it.

120 Targetpractice  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 11:50:28am

re: #116 lawhawk

Companies were quite profitable when the ratio of typical worker salaries to those of the CEO were 10-1 or 20-1. In the 1980s, it was 58-1.

Now? The ratio is over 1000-1 or more in many instances. And in some cases, it’s for companies that the CEO has essentially run into the ground (like JC Penny).

It’s a might hard to argue that wages keeping pace with productivity is bad for businesses when some of the biggest boom years for American industry were before the imposition of “trickle down.” There are arguments to made that we benefited from much of the world being either in ruins or still developing post-WWII, but even into the 60s and 70s, when many foreign economies had begun to recover, wages were still strong. It’s only in the last 30+ years that wages have stagnated or dropped while production continues to soar.

121 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 11:51:27am

re: #116 lawhawk

Companies were quite profitable when the ratio of typical worker salaries to those of the CEO were 10-1 or 20-1. In the 1980s, it was 58-1.

Now? The ratio is over 1000-1 or more in many instances. And in some cases, it’s for companies that the CEO has essentially run into the ground (like JC Penny).

This film featuring Robert Reich is specatular, if you can get to it.

Inequality for All

imdb.com

inequalityforall.com

122 Eventual Carrion  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 11:51:43am

re: #119 Amory Blaine

Bullshit. The rich need to pay up. Falling out of the right vagina doesn’t mean you deserve shit. Shifting jobs overseas so that I can pay 10.00 for a toaster instead of 11.00 is a suckers game. This expensive military doesn’t protect my interests. It protects Exxon, Walmart and Nike. Let them fucking pay for it.

And the roads they use to deliver their product over. Pay their fair share.

123 Amory Blaine  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 11:51:51am

Oh wait 13% IS CLOSER TO ZERO THAN 100%. Where’s the trickle down investments? Bullshit. Low tax rates are a fucking burden for the poor.

124 GunstarGreen  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 11:52:24am

re: #116 lawhawk

Companies were quite profitable when the ratio of typical worker salaries to those of the CEO were 10-1 or 20-1. In the 1980s, it was 58-1.

Now? The ratio is over 1000-1 or more in many instances. And in some cases, it’s for companies that the CEO has essentially run into the ground (like JC Penny).

Precisely. Modern income inequality is, quite provably, a function of the top X% very literally siphoning ALL of the profit-gains of the last several decades for themselves, and leaving nothing or almost-nothing for the rest of us. And they do this even when it is well established that they have destroyed their company. A CEO comes in, gobbles up all that he can over a ~5 year period, then bails out as the company crashes and burns. Finds a new company, repeats over 20 or so years, and now has a nice 8-figure nest egg to sit back on.

The only thing that trickles down is piss.

125 Amory Blaine  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 11:52:56am

re: #121 Decatur Deb

I saw it. Was ok, but nothing we already didn’t know. A good intro for the masses I guess. I thought it was a good insight into Reich’s life.

126 Targetpractice  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 11:53:23am

re: #124 GunstarGreen

Precisely. Modern income inequality is, quite provably, a function of the top X% very literally siphoning ALL of the profit-gains of the last several decades for themselves, and leaving nothing or almost-nothing for the rest of us. And they do this even when it is well established that they have destroyed their company. A CEO comes in, gobbles up all that he can over a ~5 year period, then bails out as the company crashes and burns. Finds a new company, repeats over 20 or so years, and now has a nice 8-figure nest egg to sit back on.

The only thing that trickles down is piss.

All the morality of a plague of locusts.

127 Kragar  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 11:53:27am

Conservatives love everything about the 1950s except the pay scale and tax codes.

128 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 11:55:02am

re: #125 Amory Blaine

I saw it. Was ok, but nothing we already didn’t know. A good intro for the masses I guess. I thought it was a good insight into Reich’s life.

Liked his graphics, esp the ‘Bridge’. Just noted that Dolly Parton did the soundtrack per IMDB.

129 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 11:56:04am

re: #127 Kragar

Conservatives love everything about the 1950s except the pay scale and tax codes.

And the union representation rate.

130 Dr. Matt  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 12:00:40pm

re: #129 Decatur Deb

And the union representation rate.

And that racial segregation was ruled unconstitutional.

131 Targetpractice  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 12:02:14pm

re: #130 Dr. Matt

And that racial segregation was ruled unconstitutional.

Nothing has sickened me in recent years quite as much as the rise of arguments that things were “better” for black folks before desegregation.

132 GunstarGreen  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 12:04:26pm

re: #130 Dr. Matt

And that racial segregation was ruled unconstitutional.

Really, the GOP is a very Exceptional party.

We want Freedom™… except when you want freedom to marry the consenting adult you love, regardless of gender.

We want Religion™… except when you want a religion other than a judeo-christian derivative.

We want Free Markets™… except when those markets wouldn’t favor big business.

We want Family Values™… except for ourselves.

133 Dr. Matt  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 12:05:04pm

re: #131 Targetpractice

Nothing has sickened me in recent years quite as much as the rise of arguments that things were “better” for black folks before desegregation.

To be fair, old white conservative men ARE experts on Blacks, gays, women, and science.

134 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 12:07:15pm

re: #77 BAGHORN

Thanks!

Greetings all! I may not fit well here, but I love to see what my ideological counterparts are thinking.

You’re late to this thread. About 4 years late.

135 Dr. Matt  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 12:09:17pm
re: #77 BAGHORN

re: #134 Decatur Deb

Is this someone from the past? He/she/it is already blocked.

136 Kragar  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 12:09:57pm

Emily Millier is a twit


Population of DC: 632,323
Population of Wyoming: 576,412

137 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 12:10:19pm

re: #135 Dr. Matt

Is this someone from the past? He/she/it is already blocked?

Nope, just ideas that had once been quite more fashionable.

138 Pie-onist Overlord  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 12:10:29pm

Something must have set off Stinky’s spidey sense.

139 Charles Johnson  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 12:13:02pm

re: #135 Dr. Matt

Yep.

140 Amory Blaine  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 12:13:32pm

Red states want to fracture because their ideology is poison. Split Texas into 14 different states and Wallah! 26 new conservative senators.

141 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 12:14:57pm

re: #139 Charles Johnson

Yep.

By their derp shall ye know them.

142 Charles Johnson  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 12:16:27pm

If people are straight-up about letting me know they had a previous account, I’m usually more than happy to let them re-register. What I won’t have: pretending to be brand new when they’re definitely not.

143 GunstarGreen  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 12:16:36pm

re: #140 Amory Blaine

Red states want to fracture because their ideology is poison. Split Texas into 14 different states and Wallah! 26 new conservative senators.

Watching the Republican Party turn on itself in an effort to out-purity each other has been a sight to behold.

See also: John freaking McCain being censured for not being right-wing enough.

Remember the Proteus? These monsters eat their wounded.

144 Amory Blaine  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 12:17:44pm

re: #142 Charles Johnson

The blister packaging was definitely tampered with.

145 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 12:19:00pm

re: #142 Charles Johnson

If people are straight-up about letting me know they had a previous account, I’m usually more than happy to let them re-register. What I won’t have: pretending to be brand new when they’re definitely not.

AMNESTY !!1!

146 wrenchwench  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 12:21:13pm

re: #136 Kragar

Emily Millier is a twit

[Embedded content]


Population of DC: 632,323
Population of Wyoming: 576,412

Washington DC is not real America, silly.

147 Eventual Carrion  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 12:21:54pm

re: #135 Dr. Matt

Is this someone from the past? He/she/it is already blocked.

Wow really. Must have been something more than I saw so far. I could tell from the first post this person was looking to lay some ideology on us, but I hadn’t seen anything terrible up to this point. Other than rehashing old shit.

148 Bulworth  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 12:22:25pm

Wyomians don’t like PBO? That does it. Obama has lost my trust and support. //

149 Kragar  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 12:23:38pm
150 klys  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 12:23:41pm

re: #146 wrenchwench

Washington DC is not real America, silly.

Easy litmus test to determine if something is real America: was it blue on the last electoral college map? If yes, it is not real America. If no, then congratulations! It’s real AmericaTM.

DC doesn’t get counted but that’s because it’s full of politicians.

151 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 12:25:06pm

Work itself is a diminishing good, and will continue to be under globalization and automation.

We should try a $30.00 minimum wage over a 30 hour DoL fulltime workweek. Just an experiment, mind you.

152 Bulworth  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 12:25:26pm

re: #149 Kragar

Patriot. Liberty. Freedom. /

153 A Mom Anon  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 12:26:49pm

I worry like crazy about my kid being able to support himself with the current crappy job market. Hell, I worry about The Husband and myself ending up homeless because it seems like there is simply no upward mobility anymore, especially once you hit age 45 or so. When I was 19, I had a union job that paid enough for me to support myself. Then a mysterious fire happened, the factory shut down and those jobs NEVER came back. That area is so economically depressed it’s entirely possible the small town my dad grew up in will be a ghost town in a few years. No one under age 50 is staying there, everyone is leaving because there are no employers in the area except for WalMart and Home Depot. I left there when I lost my job and moved south, during the 80’s construction boom. That boom is over, and things are not getting better unless you’re wealthy.

Why is it that corporations have more money now than they ever have, and yet they’re telling us they simply have no way to hire more people? They’re hoarding money like crazy and not doing anything with it but speculating and gambling with it. Fuck them.

154 b_sharp  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 12:27:02pm

re: #119 Amory Blaine

Bullshit. The rich need to pay up. Falling out of the right vagina doesn’t mean you deserve shit. Shifting jobs overseas so that I can pay 10.00 for a toaster instead of 11.00 is a suckers game. This expensive military doesn’t protect my interests. It protects Exxon, Walmart and Nike. Let them fucking pay for it.

Part of being rich is luck. Right environment, right parents, right skills in the right market.

155 Justanotherhuman  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 12:27:15pm

Good grief. It’s 67 deg here right now and they’re predicting snow for tomorrowwith a high of 30. Down to 20 by morning. That’s almost a 50 deg plunge.

156 Charles Johnson  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 12:27:53pm

And now NBC News is getting a piece of that Greenwald traffic for themselves.

Notice - they’re talking about a PILOT program with no evidence that it was actually implemented.

Snowden Docs Reveal British Spies Snooped on YouTube and Facebook - Investigations

157 Iwouldprefernotto  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 12:28:10pm

re: #155 Justanotherhuman

Good grief. It’s 67 deg here right now and they’re predicting snow for tomorrowwith a high of 30. Down to 20 by morning. That’s almost a 50 deg plunge.

Thanks Obama!

158 Justanotherhuman  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 12:28:56pm

re: #153 A Mom Anon

I worry like crazy about my kid being able to support himself with the current crappy job market. Hell, I worry about The Husband and myself ending up homeless because it seems like there is simply no upward mobility anymore, especially once you hit age 45 or so. When I was 19, I had a union job that paid enough for me to support myself. Then a mysterious fire happened, the factory shut down and those jobs NEVER came back. That area is so economically depressed it’s entirely possible the small town my dad grew up in will be a ghost town in a few years. No one under age 50 is staying there, everyone is leaving because there are no employers in the area except for WalMart and Home Depot. I left there when I lost my job and moved south, during the 80’s construction boom. That boom is over, and things are not getting better unless you’re wealthy.

Why is it that corporations have more money now than they ever have, and yet they’re telling us they simply have no way to hire more people? They’re hoarding money like crazy and not doing anything with it but speculating and gambling with it. Fuck them.

I totally agree w/your assessment. If there’s anything fucking up the world right now, it’s the Great Chasm in income, whether it’s in the US, Europe, Asia or elsewhere.

159 Dr Lizardo  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 12:29:25pm

re: #153 A Mom Anon

I worry like crazy about my kid being able to support himself with the current crappy job market. Hell, I worry about The Husband and myself ending up homeless because it seems like there is simply no upward mobility anymore, especially once you hit age 45 or so. When I was 19, I had a union job that paid enough for me to support myself. Then a mysterious fire happened, the factory shut down and those jobs NEVER came back. That area is so economically depressed it’s entirely possible the small town my dad grew up in will be a ghost town in a few years. No one under age 50 is staying there, everyone is leaving because there are no employers in the area except for WalMart and Home Depot. I left there when I lost my job and moved south, during the 80’s construction boom. That boom is over, and things are not getting better unless you’re wealthy.

Why is it that corporations have more money now than they ever have, and yet they’re telling us they simply have no way to hire more people? They’re hoarding money like crazy and not doing anything with it but speculating and gambling with it. Fuck them.

Interestingly, I was reading in the local Czech-language media that the region I live in, Moravian Silesia, is projected to lose a quarter million people between now and 2050; mostly through emigration to the rest of the EU.

The Czech Republic as a whole will lose people. It’s a population peak right now, but it’s all downhill from here.

160 Amory Blaine  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 12:30:32pm

re: #154 b_sharp

Want to be rich? Be rich, but don’t fucking stand on my neck and tell me I’m not working hard enough.

161 Justanotherhuman  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 12:32:10pm

re: #154 b_sharp

Part of being rich is luck. Right environment, right parents, right skills in the right market.

Right parents means you don’t need the other qualifications. Of course, unless you’re a total waster, you’ll have entry into worlds most of us will never even approach knowing.

162 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 12:33:03pm
163 Amory Blaine  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 12:33:07pm

re: #161 Justanotherhuman

That’s called equality of opportunity. ;)

164 Pie-onist Overlord  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 12:33:33pm

re: #161 Justanotherhuman

Right parents means you don’t need the other qualifications. Of course, unless you’re a total waster, you’ll have entry into worlds most of us will never even approach knowing.

Exhibit A: Ed Snowden.

165 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave of the waffle light)  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 12:34:02pm

re: #153 A Mom Anon

I worry like crazy about my kid being able to support himself with the current crappy job market. Hell, I worry about The Husband and myself ending up homeless because it seems like there is simply no upward mobility anymore, especially once you hit age 45 or so. When I was 19, I had a union job that paid enough for me to support myself. Then a mysterious fire happened, the factory shut down and those Home Depot I left there when I lost my job and moved south, during the 80’s construction boom. That boom is over, and things are not getting better unless you’re wealthy.

Why is it that corporations have more money now than they ever have, and yet they’re telling us they simply have no way to hire more people? They’re hoarding money like crazy and not doing anything with it but speculating and gambling with it. Fuck them.

Because we need to cut taxes and abolish regulations…and cancel ACA, IT IS KILLING JOBS!!!

/

166 klys  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 12:36:12pm

Since it has been a topic of discussion around here lately and it’s one of those words that is …very nebulously defined, I’m asking because I’m curious: what’s the criteria that folks are using to describe someone as rich? Where do you draw the boundary between upper-middle class and upper-class? Is it yearly income? Total worth? How are these numbers affected by the cost of living in the area in question, to you? (For example, there are probably a bunch more folks in the 1% in the Silicon Valley area because the high cost of living means that salaries also tend to be higher.)

167 Amory Blaine  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 12:36:32pm

Enough shit stirring from me. Taking my better half out for a wonderful late lunch.

168 Pie-onist Overlord  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 12:37:48pm

DUMBASS: My daughter graduated from Columbia & we are not privileged or wealthy.
HURR HURRRRR!!!!1!!!

169 Dr. Matt  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 12:43:06pm

re: #155 Justanotherhuman

Good grief. It’s 67 deg here right now and they’re predicting snow for tomorrowwith a high of 30. Down to 20 by morning. That’s almost a 50 deg plunge.

I had the A/C running again last night.

170 jaunte  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 12:43:44pm

re: #166 klys

The NYT came out with a map recently:
revolution-computing.typepad.com

US national range of the bottom rung of the “1%” is from 176k in Jamestown NY to 908k in Stamford Conn.

171 jaunte  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 12:44:16pm

(Annual income)

172 Varek Raith  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 12:45:43pm
173 klys  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 12:47:54pm

re: #170 jaunte

The NYT came out with a map recently:
revolution-computing.typepad.com

US national range of the bottom rung of the “1%” is from 176k in Jamestown NY to 908k in Stamford Conn.

That’s an interesting map; I wouldn’t have called that Monmouth County, NJ (@ $522,000) would be on par with San Jose, CA ($517,000), although thinking about the number of commuters to NYC it does make sense. I know that the cost of real estate out here is substantially higher, though, which means a larger portion of the CA income is going towards mortgage/rent/what-have-you. So the portion of income that would be considered disposable would be different in those locales.

174 leftynyc  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 12:56:25pm

This story has me spitting nails. All federal funding should be yanked from this school:

thinkprogress.org

A Louisiana teacher who taught her sixth grade class that evolution is “impossible” and that the bible is “100 percent true” ridiculed a Buddhist student during class and announced that those who don’t believe in god are “stupid,” according to a lawsuit filed by the American Civil Liberties Union of Louisiana.
When the child’s parents reported the incidents, the Sabine Parish superintendent allegedly told them “this is the Bible Belt,” and asked whether the child, referred to as “C.C.” could either change his faith or transfer to a school where “there are more Asians.”

175 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 12:57:51pm
176 GeneJockey  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 1:01:25pm

re: #94 BAGHORN

Like one precludes the other….. economics isn’t a zero-sum affair. If a rich man has less, you (we) don’t have more.

This is demonstrably untrue. Look at compensation as a percent of GDP over the last 50 years, and corporate profits as a percent of GDP over the same period. The former has dropped to record lows while the latter has climbed to record highs. Profits are up BECAUSE wages are lower - higher wages would have reduced profits.

And right now, we’re stuck in the economy that this, and the “trickle down” philosophy create.

Pay a poor man more and he’ll spend it, supporting other jobs, and better wages for them, allowing more people to buy more stuff, supporting more jobs etc. See the postwar economy from 1945-1980.

Let a rich man keep more money and he’ll look for someplace to put it, and you’ll get asset value bubbles, like the Internet Stock bubble of the late 1990s, or the Real Estate bubble of the mid 2000s. He won’t spend all of it, so you get less boost to the economy by letting the rich get richer.

Further, by not increasing wages for average folks in real terms, the only way to fuel increased consumer spending - the primary driver of the economy - is by loaning average folks more and more money, which transfers wealth up the scale, enriching the rich and impoverishing the impoverished.

The problem is not so much that income inequality is BAD. The biggest problem is that it’s STUPID.

177 Political Atheist  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 1:01:41pm

re: #106 wrenchwench

No taxes on the first $50,000 for the self-employed.

I thought of that a couple days ago. It’s growing on me, especially as April 15th approaches.

Small businesses create the most jobs, and even if the self-employed don’t hire anyone else, it’s still one job. Obamacare makes this possible.

Right, all the self employed would pay in would be their S/S, but no income tax. Small biz is a major job driver. Huge.

178 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave of the waffle light)  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 1:01:46pm

re: #174 leftynyc

Perhaps the teacher should consider changing schools (to a privately-funded religious school) where there would probably be fewer Asians and non-believers for her to ridicule.

179 GeneJockey  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 1:02:11pm

re: #175 NJDhockeyfan

[Embedded content]

You had me at “free beer”.

180 Dr Lizardo  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 1:02:24pm

re: #174 leftynyc

This story has me spitting nails. All federal funding should be yanked from this school:

thinkprogress.org

Fire the teacher. Clearly unprofessional conduct.

181 A Mom Anon  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 1:02:45pm

re: #170 jaunte

That’s the top one percent, but “rich” is probably going to fall below that. I live in Atlanta, they have the top 1 percent as over 404K a year. But to me, “rich” would be half that, and you could live really, really well here for that much, unless you were an idiot with money. At the peak of my husband’s best job, we were living pretty nicely for about a quarter of that 404K, but I wouldn’t have said we were rich, just doing well. We are now living on less than 50K before taxes, and I’m honestly scared for the first time since I was homeless in my early 20s.

I get that costs of living, especially real estate, varies wildly depending on where you live, but if you’re raking in 400K plus per year, I think you can say you’re doing pretty freaking well and could consider yourself wealthy.

182 GeneJockey  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 1:03:17pm

re: #177 Political Atheist

Right, all the self employed would pay in would be their S/S, but no income tax. Small biz is a major job driver. Huge.

CONSUMER SPENDING is THE major job driver. Small business doesn’t create jobs. People buying shit from small business creates jobs.

183 GunstarGreen  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 1:03:19pm

re: #174 leftynyc

This story has me spitting nails. All federal funding should be yanked from this school:

thinkprogress.org

Behold the fully-intended end result of allowing religion into schools.

Religious instruction does not have room for respecting all faiths equally. The nature of organized religion doesn’t allow for it. You can only believe in a religion if you believe that it is the only correct religion, and you cannot teach a religion as fact without believing in it. It is not possible to have ‘faith-based’ education without, by definition, denouncing all other religions as Wrong. This is in direct violation of the separation of church and state.

184 EmmaAnne  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 1:04:32pm

re: #166 klys

I think top 1% can fairly be described as “rich.” So half a million a year, plus or minus?

But the people who are buying laws, exporting jobs, killing unions? More like 0.1%. Multimillions/year.

185 GeneJockey  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 1:04:40pm

re: #174 leftynyc

This story has me spitting nails. All federal funding should be yanked from this school:

thinkprogress.org

Screw that. The teacher should be shitcanned.

186 Pie-onist Overlord  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 1:05:56pm

re: #185 GeneJockey

Screw that. The teacher should be shitcanned.

HURR HURR!!!1!!!!! PERSECUTION OF TEH CHRISTIANS!!!1!!!!! DENIED TEH RELIGIOUS RIGHT TO PERSECUTE TEH BUDDHISTS!!!1111!!!!!

187 Kragar  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 1:06:17pm

re: #182 GeneJockey

CONSUMER SPENDING is THE major job driver. Small business doesn’t create jobs. People buying shit from small business creates jobs.

No one creates a job because their business got a tax credit.

A person makes a job when a customer is willing and able to pay them for their goods and services.

188 danarchy  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 1:06:41pm

re: #180 Dr Lizardo

Fire the teacher. Clearly unprofessional conduct.

Probably easier said than done. Plus from the story the problem seems a lot more endemic than a single teacher if the electronic marquee outside is scrolling bible verses.

189 Pie-onist Overlord  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 1:07:04pm

HURR HURR!!!11!!!

190 GeneJockey  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 1:07:20pm

re: #186 Pie-onist Overlord

HURR HURR!!!1!!!!! PERSECUTION OF TEH CHRISTIANS!!!1!!!!! DENIED TEH RELIGIOUS RIGHT TO PERSECUTE TEH BUDDHISTS!!!1111!!!!!

As a Scientist I have found my tolerance for “teachers” telling lies to children to support their invisible friend decreasing dramatically.

191 chadu  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 1:07:50pm

re: #119 Amory Blaine

Bullshit. The rich need to pay up. Falling out of the right vagina gun safe doesn’t mean you deserve shit.

The GUN SAFE PROTOCOL does not work in all situations.

Hurm.

192 Pie-onist Overlord  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 1:08:20pm

Somebody ask Erick the Erick how many abortions “Abortion Barbie” has had.

193 chadu  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 1:09:25pm

re: #136 Kragar

Emily Millier is a twit
[Embedded content]

Population of DC: 632,323
Population of Wyoming: 576,412

(whisper) There are a lot of blah people in DC.

///

194 Pie-onist Overlord  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 1:09:30pm
195 Dr. Matt  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 1:09:41pm

re: #189 Pie-onist Overlord

HURR HURR!!!11!!!

They want to vent the President? Weird.

196 GeneJockey  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 1:09:46pm

re: #187 Kragar

No one creates a job because their business got a tax credit.

A person makes a job when a customer is willing and able to pay them for their goods and services.

The increasing worship of businessmen large and small over the last 3 1/2 decades is a lot of our problem.

197 Slap  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 1:10:04pm

re: #189 Pie-onist Overlord

HURR HURR!!!11!!!

[Embedded content]

Point of clarification:

Short of some sort of picaresque description, how does one “vent” someone?

198 Decatur Deb  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 1:11:10pm

re: #197 Slap

Point of clarification:

Short of some sort of picaresque description, how does one “vent” someone?

Derpdialogue for ‘vet’.

199 Kragar  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 1:11:14pm

re: #197 Slap

Point of clarification:

Short of some sort of picaresque description, how does one “vent” someone?

Shove them into the airlock.

200 Pie-onist Overlord  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 1:11:20pm

re: #195 Dr. Matt

They want to >vent the President? Weird.

Freudian.

201 Justanotherhuman  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 1:11:57pm

re: #166 klys

Since it has been a topic of discussion around here lately and it’s one of those words that is …very nebulously defined, I’m asking because I’m curious: what’s the criteria that folks are using to describe someone as rich? Where do you draw the boundary between upper-middle class and upper-class? Is it yearly income? Total worth? How are these numbers affected by the cost of living in the area in question, to you? (For example, there are probably a bunch more folks in the 1% in the Silicon Valley area because the high cost of living means that salaries also tend to be higher.)

Well, to someone with my income and prospects (haha, absolutely none at this stage of the game), someone who lives in a $1M McMansion (around here, at least) and has more than half their income as disposable, who can self-finance their kids’ educations (I’ve known people who actually buy condos near their kids’ colleges and sell them after graduation), who can afford to invest (and even lose part or all of it without going broke), or is paying large sums for the resources they use, no matter the form of consumption, is wealthy.

re: #174 leftynyc

This story has me spitting nails. All federal funding should be yanked from this school:

thinkprogress.org

Sabine Parish is in big trouble.

202 chadu  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 1:13:13pm

re: #166 klys

Since it has been a topic of discussion around here lately and it’s one of those words that is …very nebulously defined, I’m asking because I’m curious: what’s the criteria that folks are using to describe someone as rich?

IMAO, based on gut-feelings, if you make more than $500K (single) or $750K (household) per annum, you rich, yo.

Don’t care where you live; used to live in DC Metro, and that’s still rich.

203 klys  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 1:15:00pm

Since I asked folks, I should probably toss my definition into the field:

To me, rich means you don’t have to work in order to sustain your lifestyle at your desired level and can afford to not pay much attention to your expenditures.

Putting a dollar amount on that tends to be harder but involves multiple millions+ in savings and probably income in the million+ a year range, if one is choosing to work. I define this as “upper class.”

Being well-off means being able to afford things that you want, if done sensibly, but you need to work for that income. Your savings might be quite good but that’s because that’s money you’ve put away for things like retirement and it’s not there for immediate access for that toy you have to have. I define this as “upper-middle class.” (Which is in and of itself a sad commentary on the state of income inequality in America today.)

204 lawhawk  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 1:16:15pm

re: #199 Kragar

Thank you Admiral Adama for that point of order. /

Youtube Video

205 b_sharp  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 1:16:27pm

re: #195 Dr. Matt

They want to >vent the President? Weird.

Gun nut.

206 Romantic Heretic  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 1:18:56pm

re: #51 Kragar

Not necessarily. In the book, service did not mean military service. His best friend ended up as a scientific researcher, and they said some people ended up doing construction and other jobs as well.

As I recall the term used was ‘Federal Service’. If a person was willing to set aside two years to perform whatever public service the Federation decided you were physically and mentally capable of, you got to vote, hold public office or be a police officer.

The only way you could be turned away was if the psychiatrists determined you were unable to understand the oath required. A person blind and in a wheelchair had to be assigned a duty. Of course you could be let loose if you fucked up.

Also, the term was a minimum of two years. If the Federation determined they needed you for longer, you stayed longer.

Personally I think it’s a great idea. I can’t see libertarians, wingnuts or moonbats having any say in such a system. They wouldn’t risk their precious asses.

207 CuriousLurker  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 1:19:03pm

re: #203 klys

Being well-off means being able to afford things that you want, if done sensibly, but you need to work for that income. Your savings might be quite good but that’s because that’s money you’ve put away for things like retirement and it’s not there for immediate access for that toy you have to have. I define this as “upper-middle class.” (Which is in and of itself a sad commentary on the state of income inequality in America today.)

Yeah, that pretty much used to be the definition of middle class. Alas, no more.

208 Hercules Grytpype-Thynneghazi  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 1:21:08pm

re: #180 Dr Lizardo

Fire the teacher. Clearly unprofessional conduct.

The unprofessionalism doesn’t stop there:

After learning of Negreet’s unlawful practices and treatment of their son, C.C.’s parents, Scott and Sharon Lane, rose to his defense, taking their concerns to Defendant Sara Ebarb, the Sabine Parish Superintendent of Schools. But she took no corrective action. On the contrary, she told the Lanes that “[t]his is the Bible Belt” and that they would simply have to accept that teachers would proselytize students. She also asked whether C.C. had to be raised as a Buddhist and whether he could “change” his faith, and she suggested that C.C. transfer to another district school - more than 25 miles away where, in her words, “there are more Asians.” The day after meeting with the Lanes, the Superintendent sent a letter to Negreet Principal Gene Wright stating that she approved of Negreet’s official religious practices. Wright read the letter to the entire Negreet student body over the school’s public-address system.

209 Romantic Heretic  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 1:21:14pm

re: #52 b_sharp

They believe the 1% are the real owners of the money and are entitled to keep whatever their businesses make. Employees are replaceable components of the business - automatons to be upgraded or trashed.

That the business owner is likely not capable of making any money without employees is not considered.

Back when I was a computer programmer I quickly realized that was why so many business owners were so excited about computers. They were hoping to replace those ridiculously expensive employees with cheaper computers.

The disappointment some of them displayed when they found out it wasn’t possible at the time, and probably never, was palpable.

210 leftynyc  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 1:22:55pm

re: #178 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave of the waffle light)

Perhaps the teacher should consider changing schools (to a privately-funded religious school) where there would probably be fewer Asians and non-believers for her to ridicule.

Looks like she has no reason to as she’s being defended on her behavior.

211 Romantic Heretic  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 1:48:40pm

re: #116 lawhawk

Companies were quite profitable when the ratio of typical worker salaries to those of the CEO were 10-1 or 20-1. In the 1980s, it was 58-1.

Now? The ratio is over 1000-1 or more in many instances. And in some cases, it’s for companies that the CEO has essentially run into the ground (like JC Penny).

[edited to add] Note that the 1980s was in the middle of the Reagan years, when tax rates were still higher than they are now. The top tax rate was 50% until the tax act of 1986, which reduced the top rate to 38.5% beginning in 1987 and then down to 28% in 1988.

To me this is indicative of the delusion I’ve pointed out before. It’s a two part delusion on the part of upper management in large businesses and many others as well.

The first part of the delusion is that upper management are capitalists. They are not. They are employees just like the rest of the company’s workforce. Executive employees, but employees nonetheless.

The second part of the delusion is that all capitalists are wealthy, obscenely wealthy. Which is demonstrably not true. Most capitalists lose their shirt. A few manage to make a living. Very, very few become wildly successful.

At its heart capitalism is about risk. It’s a risky endeavour. A capitalist invests capital; intellectual, physical and fiscal; into manufacturing a product. If the product is needed and wanted by consumers then the capitalist will sell enough to make a profit. Otherwise he’s fucked and he loses his shirt.

Upper management risk nothing. They’ve rigged the game so that no matter how badly they fuck up they do not suffer at all. They’re almost as far away from actual capitalism as Marxists. In fact they agree with Marx on how a capitalist society works. They just disagree with Marx’s conclusion that this is a bad thing. They also disagree with Marx on who will win the class war that Karl claimed would be the result of this behaviour.

As long as this delusion persists we are always going to have trouble reconciling business with society.

212 EPR-radar  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 1:51:25pm

re: #203 klys

My take on ‘the rich’ is similar. I tend to view that as including people who can basically spend as they please without having to work for a living long before retirement age. With this definition, ‘the rich’ is a much more exclusive group than the top 1% income group.

213 EPR-radar  Mon, Jan 27, 2014 1:53:05pm

re: #211 Romantic Heretic

I honestly fail to see how the US model for executive compensation is not merely embezzlement made legal.


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