Reince Priebus Whines About Being Accused of Racism, MSNBC Instantly Backs Down

What right wing racism?
Wingnuts • Views: 25,813

Reince Priebus and the Republican National Committee are freaking out and whining like babies about a tweet from MSNBC about the new Cheerios diversity ad set to air during the Super Bowl: MEMO - Until MSNBC’s Phil Griffin Apologizes.

Priebus has issued a ban on RNC staff members appearing on MSNBC until he gets a personal apology from the network’s president.

The text of @msnbc’s tweet that sent Reince into a frenzy of faux outrage:

Maybe the rightwing will hate it, but everyone else will go aww: the adorable new #Cheerios ad w/ biracial family.

Now what could possibly give anyone the idea that the right wing has a problem with racism or biracial families?

Meanwhile, MSNBC has already backed down and apologized.

That’s something you will never see Fox News do.

Also see
UPDATE at 1/30/14 10:39:33 am

It might be interesting to see what the right wing commenters at breitbart.com have to say about the new Cheerios ad: MSNBC Accuses ‘Rightwing’ of Hating Biracial Family in Super Bowl Cheerios Ad.

Notice that the post follows Reince Priebus’s cue and whines about being falsely accused of racism. Meanwhile, the commenters say:

a disgusting ad. They keep trying to ram this garbage down our throats.

[…]

Are whites really that upset about this commercial?
For decades we have been inundated with favorable portrayals of black men on TV and in the movies.

[…]

this is exactly what gots Trayvon kilt.

[…]

Who hates black men/white women marriages more than anyone?
That’s right, black women. They are consumed with hatred for it.
But they are never called racists. Only whites are.

[…]

Well, you can’t blame them… their women sorta look like men

[…]

for Easter they’ll unveil a BI/GAY family - a black daddy and a white daddy, one a pimp

[…]

Obamas’ daddy was a street thug otherwise he would be a better human being

[…]

It would be more realistic if the mom weighed 350 lbs but the part with the dad laying on the couch midday is spot on. I bet it’s a week day too.

It goes on and on and on in this vein.

UPDATE at 1/30/14 2:37:47 pm

And there it is — Reince gets his personal groveling apology.

Jump to bottom

335 comments

1 Targetpractice  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 10:34:59am

They don’t want just an apology, then want MSNBC to grovel before them. And if I were Griffin, I’d tell them that if they’re not happy with the deletion of the offending tweet and an apologetic tweet, then they are free to go fornicate with themselves.

2 Dr. Matt  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 10:35:32am

Nothing but more fake outrage from the right. BFD

3 makeitstop  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 10:35:43am

MSNBC clearly needs a primer on the use of the term ‘Go fuck yourself.’

4 jaunte  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 10:36:02am

What’s truly “unacceptable, offensive and noxious” is the ongoing GOP boycott of the business of governance.

5 Pie-onist Overlord  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 10:36:47am

HURR HURRRRR!!!1!!!! TEH LIBRULS IS TEH REAL RACISTS!!!1!!!!!

6 darthstar  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 10:37:24am

MSNBC should just shut down all operations and send all their viewers to Fox.
/

7 leftynyc  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 10:37:30am

They shouldn’t have apologized, there was nothing wrong with the tweet. Perhaps all MSNBC needs to do is round up all the tweets and comments made about the ad when it was aired - they were disgusting.

I also notice they didn’t say republicans, or conservatives - they specifically said right wing. There was nothing wrong with the post and if the apology wasn’t enough, Griffen should tell them to fuck off and take care of their own house (fox news).

8 Pie-onist Overlord  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 10:39:15am
9 Gus  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 10:41:13am

Offensive Tweet! O-M-G! O-M-G! O-M-G! Where’s Todd Kincannon (former SC GOP leader) to tell everyone to grow a pair and make racist jokes!

10 Testy Toad T  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 10:42:51am

If I were in any position of power in the GOP, when I saw a tweet like this I would cower and hope nobody noticed. I think it’s really funny that Priebus thought that it was a good thing to which to call attention.

Anyone, I mean anyone who hears about this will laugh, and the laughter will mostly be sad laughter focused rightwards. Either at the racism or at the whining; neither is good.

There is such thing as bad publicity, buddy. Anyone whose response to this episode was “YEAHHH, GO GIT ‘EM REINCE” was, um, not exactly an undecided voter last week.

Ever-larger fraction of an ever-shrinking demographic, indeed.

11 Lidane  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 10:43:37am
12 jaunte  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 10:43:55am

See what happens after Joe Scarborough and Chuck Todd have a little talk with him.

13 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 10:44:16am

Prince Rebus reminds me of a little boy who has adopted a skunk and wastes all his time trying to make it smell better. He also gets his feelings hurt when people avoid him or make rude remarks about the stench.

14 Justanotherhuman  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 10:46:54am

Why the hell did MSNBC say that they “delivered an offensive line about the new Cheerios ad”? They didn’t. It wasn’t about the ad itself.

The “offensive line” wasn’t offensive, unless the rightwing says it is?

Touchy, touchy. Hope your widdle feelings weren’t hurt.

15 mr.fusion  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 10:47:13am

Meanwhile, President Obama is about to sit down for an interview with Fox News’ Bill O’Reilly.

Good thing Fox has never said anything incendiary about Democrats or Pres Obama or else Dems would have to #boycott!!!

16 Dr Lizardo  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 10:47:16am

Priebus is complaining?

This from a political party chairman whose base may as well have “Waiting For The Worms” as their unofficial theme song.

LOLOL

*smh*

17 Gus  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 10:48:20am

Reince Priebus is a freak.

18 ObserverArt  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 10:48:31am

Damnit…a new thread again and I’m trying to answer Charles comment in the last. Sigh.

Anyway, since my comment in the last thread is fresh and on-topic for this one…I’mma gonna quote myself here.

re: #366 Charles Johnson

The constant flood of overt racism from today’s right is bad enough, but the *whining* when they’re called out on it is insufferable.

I swear all of this is calculated.

They always - ALWAYS - do this seemingly to send a message to that funky base they play too.

And as I always ask and wonder, how do they think it helps them in anyway? No one in that party can be that stupid to do and say the stupid things they do. So, I still say they think it plays to the base and it will help them in the future somehow. How?

The only thing they do to try to bring in new people is pay lip service with stuff like Reince Priebus saying they are working to be a more open and inclusive party, and they do not have a war against women, etc.

Blow it up! There apparently is no one in that party capable of real political strategy.

Or, the worst fear…they are all driven by ALEC, the Kochs and other big business types and regular voters no longer count and they do not care about the presidency. And why wouldn’t they care about the presidency? Maybe they think with all of their dollars, gerrymandering and selling to the base in those gerrymandered districts they can keep the house and get the senate and can continue to block and democratic president.

19 jaunte  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 10:50:13am
Maybe the rightwing will hate it, but everyone else will go awww: the adorable new #Cheerios ad w/ biracial family.

If they weren’t talking about you, Reince, there’s no reason to get upset.

20 wrenchwench  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 10:50:48am

It’s one thing to say, ‘We Republicans have interracial families too.’

It’s something quite different to say, ‘The Left has the real racists,’ which is where their hashtag immediately went. Plus a photo of a white man and a chimp (now deleted).

21 Lidane  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 10:51:02am

I’m sorry to go off topic so early, but this pisses me off:


I remember my schools providing lunches no questions asked for the kids who couldn’t pay or had no money. WTF.

22 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 10:51:07am

Note that the tweet does not even mention the Republican Party. It refers only to the “rightwing.” This is a distinction without a difference nowadays, as Priebus’s response proves, but it hasn’t been too many years since it wasn’t so at all.

23 calochortus  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 10:52:10am

re: #21 Lidane

I’m sorry to go off topic so early, but this pisses me off:

[Embedded content]


I remember my schools providing lunches no questions asked for the kids who couldn’t pay or had no money. WTF.

Maybe they could pay for them by providing janitorial services. Learning responsibility…
//

24 Justanotherhuman  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 10:52:48am

Ukrainian protestor missing for 8 days has been found. This is Google translation, of course.

“Deputy ” homeland ” George Stec reports that found Avtomaydanu Dmitry Bulatov leader , who disappeared on January 22 evening.

“He wrote on his page on Facebook.

“I hope that if this is true , we soon hear it,” - said Stec ” Ukrainian Truth “.

“As you know, Bulatov disappearance preceded the attack on a convoy of cars Berkut protesters at 1:00 on Thursday January 23.

“During the attack, the cars were smashed and protesters reportedly taken to an unknown destination.

“Although Bulatov was not in the convoy drivers, there are concerns that “Berkut” tracked all the people who participated in Avtomaydani .

pravda.com.ua

Tweeted by Max Eristavi

25 jaunte  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 10:56:02am

re: #15 mr.fusion

Meanwhile, President Obama is about to sit down for an interview with Fox News’ Bill O’Reilly.

Good thing Fox has never said anything incendiary about Democrats or Pres Obama or else Dems would have to #boycott!!!

26 Lancelot Link  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 10:56:59am

Hey, it’s not as if there were any prominent right-wingers using phrases like “subhuman mongrel” recently/

27 Skip Intro  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 10:57:19am

re: #1 Targetpractice

They don’t want just an apology, then want MSNBC to grovel before them.

And Comcast is more than happy to oblige.

28 Pie-onist Overlord  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 10:58:18am

re: #21 Lidane

I’m sorry to go off topic so early, but this pisses me off:

[Embedded content]


I remember my schools providing lunches no questions asked for the kids who couldn’t pay or had no money. WTF.

“Please Child Nutrition Manager? Please may I have some more?”

29 Justanotherhuman  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 11:00:34am

U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry called the leaders of the Ukrainian opposition

30 Bulworth  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 11:02:59am

Oh, the RWNJ are just so misunderstood……

/

31 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 11:03:09am
32 Blue Fielder  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 11:03:14am

re: #28 Pie-onist Overlord

“Please Child Nutrition Manager? Please may I have some more?”

MO-O-O-O-O-O-O-O-ORE?!

MO-O-O-O-O-O-O-ORE?!?!

33 AntonSirius  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 11:03:23am
34 Lidane  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 11:03:48am

re: #26 Lancelot Link

Hey, it’s not as if there were any prominent right-wingers using phrases like “subhuman mongrel” recently/

Or saying that POTUS needs to be “put down” like a “rabid dog”.

Or openly calling for a military coup of the current administration.

Or calling the president the Kommandant-in-Chief. And a tyrant. And a dictator that is ruling the country by imperial decree.

35 makeitstop  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 11:03:51am

re: #21 Lidane

I remember my schools providing lunches no questions asked for the kids who couldn’t pay or had no money. WTF.

When I was in grade school, I was on the Free Lunch program and had to present a card at the cafeteria cash register.

That was humiliating enough. I can only imagine how horrible those poor kids felt.

36 Pie-onist Overlord  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 11:05:04am

Somebody is going to lose their $150K/yr job and become all unemployed.

37 Justanotherhuman  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 11:10:33am

It’s pretty clear now that MSNBC doesn’t know who their demographic really is.

So get a clue, MSNBC. It’s not the rightwing. Yet you allow them to control what you do and say while they’re making racist remarks all over the intertubes (and elsewhere) about interracial dating and marriage?

38 wrenchwench  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 11:10:43am

re: #35 makeitstop

When I was in grade school, I was on the Free Lunch program and had to present a card at the cafeteria cash register.

That was humiliating enough. I can only imagine how horrible those poor kids felt.

The districts here are so poor that everyone gets free lunch. Certainly simplifies things.

39 Lidane  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 11:10:44am

re: #35 makeitstop

When I was in grade school, I was on the Free Lunch program and had to present a card at the cafeteria cash register.

That was humiliating enough. I can only imagine how horrible those poor kids felt.

I remember one teacher when I was in grade school that took great pleasure in humiliating kids and calling them out in the cafeteria if they acted up. That was bad enough.

I couldn’t even imagine what those kids went through having their lunches taken from them and tossed out in front of the rest of the cafeteria. WTF.

40 lawhawk  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 11:11:36am

re: #17 Gus

Reince Priebus is a freak.

A freak with a microphone. /Garth

41 jaunte  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 11:11:47am
42 Justanotherhuman  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 11:11:57am

re: #39 Lidane

I remember one teacher when I was in grade school that took great pleasure in humiliating kids and calling them out in the cafeteria if they acted up. That was bad enough.

I couldn’t even imagine what those kids went through having their lunches taken from them and tossed out in front of the rest of the cafeteria. WTF.

Yeah, some of the nuns were awful about publicly humiliating kids, too.

43 lawhawk  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 11:13:56am

re: #34 Lidane

Technically, that Congressman called him Kommandant-in-Chef. (must have been thinking of South Park?!)

Because Randy Weber (R-TX) is noted as an expert on the English language and world history.

44 wrenchwench  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 11:14:37am

re: #18 ObserverArt

Damnit…a new thread again and I’m trying to answer Charles comment in the last. Sigh.

Anyway, since my comment in the last thread is fresh and on-topic for this one…I’mma gonna quote myself here.

I think part of the answer is here:

re: #25 jaunte

[Embedded image]

Being racist may not be an asset to the Republicans, but keeping all the racists on board is a must. It’s one of the few demographics they can still count on.

45 Lidane  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 11:15:04am

No surprise here:

46 Justanotherhuman  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 11:15:04am

Some of them have a real steampunk vibe…

47 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave of the waffle light)  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 11:17:14am

Thing is, you will find all sorts of Right wingers objecting to portrayals of biracial couples in advertising - on the grounds of “battling creeping political correctness” or “racial realism” or “declining social and moral standards”, just not becuase of the r-word…

48 Pie-onist Overlord  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 11:17:45am

Salt Lake City Child Nutrition Department.

Send them a polite, but strongly worded letter.

49 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 11:18:51am

re: #37 Justanotherhuman

It’s pretty clear now that MSNBC doesn’t know who their demographic really is.

So get a clue, MSNBC. It’s not the rightwing. Yet you allow them to control what you do and say while they’re making racist remarks all over the intertubes (and elsewhere) about interracial dating and marriage?

They know. This is all about stirring up outrage, twitter buzz and getting their name out there. The Cheerios story is well over a year old (maybe two) and it was old when it became an outrageous outrage. MSNBC is just trying to get a reaction out of wingnuts and retweeted an old story (I guess because they couldn’t find a newer one). Wingnuts freak out. Everybody involved looks like an idiot but it gets them recognition and media buzz. The apology is meaningless and only adds fuel for online discussion and criticism.

50 wrenchwench  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 11:19:28am

re: #49 Killgore Trout

They know. This is all about stirring up outrage, twitter buzz and getting their name out there. The Cheerios story is well over a year (maybe two) and it was old when it became an outrageous outrage. MSNBC is just trying to get a reaction out of wingnuts and retweeted an old story (I guess because they couldn’t find a newer one). Wingnuts freak out. Everybody involved looks like an idiot but it gets them recognition and media buzz. The apology is meaningless and only adds fuel for online discussion and criticism.

There’s a new ad.

51 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 11:19:37am
52 makeitstop  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 11:20:12am

re: #49 Killgore Trout

They know. This is all about stirring up outrage, twitter buzz and getting their name out there. The Cheerios story is well over a year (maybe two) and it was old when it became an outrageous outrage. MSNBC is just trying to get a reaction out of wingnuts and retweeted an old story (I guess because they couldn’t find a newer one). Wingnuts freak out. Everybody involved looks like an idiot but it gets them recognition and media buzz. The apology is meaningless and only adds fuel for online discussion and criticism.

Sure, and Priebus didn’t try to generate any publicity or outrage from this.
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

53 A Mom Anon  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 11:21:25am

re: #50 wrenchwench

Someone’s “I only skimmed the article, but…” again

54 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 11:21:28am
55 Testy Toad T  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 11:21:56am

re: #50 wrenchwench

There’s a new ad.

Quiet! There are fairies to be balanced.

56 makeitstop  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 11:22:34am

re: #55 erik_t

Quiet! There are fairies to be balanced.

And he hasn’t even gotten to dissing Maddow yet.

57 Pie-onist Overlord  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 11:23:25am

re: #51 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Look at how wingnuts are spinning this:

58 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 11:25:19am

re: #50 wrenchwench

There’s a new ad.

Ah, you are correct. It’s the same kid but a new commercial.
Youtube Video

59 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 11:26:18am

re: #52 makeitstop

Sure, and Priebus didn’t try to generate any publicity or outrage from this.
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

of course he did, I thought I made that clear.

60 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 11:27:13am
61 jaunte  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 11:31:26am

NY1 political reporter Michael Scotto “is related to Anthony Scotto, former head of the Brooklyn longshoremen’s union and a former boss in the Gambino crime family. ”
pagesix.com

62 Mattand  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 11:31:49am
63 Mattand  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 11:35:20am

re: #59 Killgore Trout

of course he did, I thought I made that clear.

Not really. It read like you were shitting all over MSNBC.

My surprise, let me show it to you.

64 makeitstop  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 11:36:11am

re: #59 Killgore Trout

of course he did, I thought I made that clear.

No mention of Preibus anywhere in your screed there.

65 kerFuFFler  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 11:39:56am
Until he takes internal corrective action and personally apologizes—not just to the RNC but to all right-of-center Americans—I’m banning all RNC staff from appearing on, associating with, or booking any RNC surrogates on MSNBC.

Maybe he saw what a trainwreck Huelskamp’s interview with Rachel Maddow was and figured this phony poutrage would be an easy excuse to have Republicans avoid effective questioning on MSNBC.

66 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 11:40:08am

OT but just because…

dicktater

67 Ian G.  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 11:40:25am

re: #61 jaunte

NY1 political reporter Michael Scotto “is related to Anthony Scotto, former head of the Brooklyn longshoremen’s union and a former boss in the Gambino crime family. ”
pagesix.com

In another era, Grimm’s body parts would be found floating in Jamaica Bay.

68 Political Atheist  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 11:41:33am

re: #51 Charles Johnson

BREAKING: US to seek death penalty against #BostonMarathon bomber Tsarnaev. @EvanPerez on CNN momentarily

Well, the usual objection to the death penalty of some doubt about innocence or racism would not apply in the is case, and it’s a hard one to object to. Still, on balance, maybe life without parole would be the better option.

69 Pie-onist Overlord  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 11:42:56am
70 Targetpractice  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 11:43:25am

re: #68 Political Atheist

Well, the usual objection to the death penalty of some doubt about innocence or racism would not apply in the is case, and it’s a hard one to object to. Still, on balance, maybe life without parole would be the better option.

I honestly don’t see any reason to pursue the death penalty. There’s no chance of him ever seeing the outside world again and putting him on death row just means the Feds will now spend more money fighting against appeals for years to come.

71 freetoken  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 11:43:58am

They’re cute.

But, they’ve also been “edited”:

First monkeys with customized mutations born

The ultimate potential of precision gene-editing techniques is beginning to be realised. Today, researchers in China report the first monkeys engineered with targeted mutations1, an achievement that could be a stepping stone to making more realistic research models of human diseases.

Xingxu Huang, a geneticist at the Model Animal Research Center of Nanjing University in China, and his colleagues successfully engineered twin cynomolgus monkeys (Macaca fascicularis) with two targeted mutations using the CRISPR/Cas9 system — a technology that has taken the field of genetic engineering by storm in the past year. Researchers have leveraged the technique to disrupt genes in mice and rats2, 3, but until now none had succeeded in primates.

[…]

Previous attempts to genetically modify primates have relied on viral methods4, 5, which create mutations efficiently, but at unpredictable locations and in uncontrolled numbers. Prospects for primates brightened with the emergence of the CRISPR/Cas9 gene-editing system, which uses customizable snippets of RNA to guide the DNA-cutting enzyme Cas9 to the desired mutation site.

[…]

Um… we’re primates.

Coming soon: the edited human.

72 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 11:45:10am

Is this the same commercial that came out about a year(?) ago? Where the kid dumps cereal on the sleeping dad? Did I imagine the whole thing? Have I fallen into a time warp?

73 Mattand  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 11:45:22am

re: #65 kerFuFFler

Maybe he saw what a trainwreck Huelskamp’s interview with Rachel Maddow was and figured this phony poutrage would be an excuse to have Republicans avoid effective questioning on MSNBC.

Absolutely. I just got around to listening to Maddow interviewing Huelskamp. The sad thing is that all Maddow asked him to do was explain himself, and Heulskamp couldn’t pull that off without going Full Metal Benghazi.

Republicans are so used to having their privates stroked by Fox News they probably can’t order a sandwich without Brit Hume or Sean Hannity present.

74 Pie-onist Overlord  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 11:45:46am

re: #72 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce

Is this the same commercial that came out about a year(?) ago? Where the kid dumps cereal on the sleeping dad? Did I imagine the whole thing? Have I fallen into a time warp?

This is a new commercial.

75 Petero1818  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 11:45:55am

I think it was wrong of MSNBC to have said “the right wing” - I think they would have been fine to say “some of those on the right” or “many of those on the right”. That said, I think the press in general should boycott interviewing any member of the GOP until they issue a policy statement formally censuring bully / thug like intimidation of the press as was displayed by Grimm this week.

76 Pie-onist Overlord  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 11:46:18am
77 wrenchwench  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 11:46:29am

re: #72 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce

Is this the same commercial that came out about a year(?) ago? Where the kid dumps cereal on the sleeping dad? Did I imagine the whole thing? Have I fallen into a time warp?

Here’s the new one:

Youtube Video

78 Dr Lizardo  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 11:46:54am

re: #76 Pie-onist Overlord

[Embedded content]

It’s your worst nightmare come to life.

79 jamesfirecat  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 11:47:01am

re: #68 Political Atheist

Well, the usual objection to the death penalty of some doubt about innocence or racism would not apply in the is case, and it’s a hard one to object to. Still, on balance, maybe life without parole would be the better option.

The problem is that you are not allowed to decide that only the “super guilty” people get the death penalty while others get life in religion, there’s no way you could legally define “super guilty” in any way that was just and fair.

Also life in prison is cheaper.
deathpenaltyinfo.org

80 Petero1818  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 11:47:02am

re: #76 Pie-onist Overlord

[Embedded content]

My god, that outfit clashes horribly with that bag.

81 blueraven  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 11:47:17am

re: #49 Killgore Trout

They know. This is all about stirring up outrage, twitter buzz and getting their name out there. The Cheerios story is well over a year old (maybe two) and it was old when it became an outrageous outrage. MSNBC is just trying to get a reaction out of wingnuts and retweeted an old story (I guess because they couldn’t find a newer one). Wingnuts freak out. Everybody involved looks like an idiot but it gets them recognition and media buzz. The apology is meaningless and only adds fuel for online discussion and criticism.

facts be damned…there is an MSNBC story to bitch about.

82 Pie-onist Overlord  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 11:47:35am

re: #72 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce

Is this the same commercial that came out about a year(?) ago? Where the kid dumps cereal on the sleeping dad? Did I imagine the whole thing? Have I fallen into a time warp?

Not unless you are one of the time-traveling Democrats from the 1860’s who have been posting all the racist comments at YouTube.

83 Mattand  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 11:48:06am

re: #76 Pie-onist Overlord

[Embedded content]

On the MTA, they call this “Thursday.”

84 makeitstop  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 11:48:12am

re: #72 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce

Is this the same commercial that came out about a year(?) ago? Where the kid dumps cereal on the sleeping dad? Did I imagine the whole thing? Have I fallen into a time warp?

Nope, new one, with the same family.

85 wrenchwench  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 11:48:20am

re: #75 Petero1818

I think it was wrong of MSNBC to have said “the right wing” - I think they would have been fine to say “some of those on the right” or “many of those on the right”. That said, I think the press in general should boycott interviewing any member of the GOP until they issue a policy statement formally censuring bully / thug like intimidation of the press as was displayed by Grimm this week.

They should have said, ‘Racists won’t like it’, then whoever squealed would be outing their own self.

86 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 11:49:37am

re: #76 Pie-onist Overlord

[Embedded content]

Drag Mime who has gone too far…

87 Pie-onist Overlord  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 11:49:44am
88 Pie-onist Overlord  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 11:50:52am

Eat that, Ed Snowden!

89 Mattand  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 11:50:54am

re: #81 blueraven

facts be damned…there is an MSNBC story to bitch about.

Maddow-bashing in 3, 2, 1…

90 Targetpractice  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 11:51:05am

re: #76 Pie-onist Overlord

[Embedded content]

…okay, who spiked my drink!?

91 Ian G.  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 11:52:38am

re: #68 Political Atheist

Well, the usual objection to the death penalty of some doubt about innocence or racism would not apply in the is case, and it’s a hard one to object to. Still, on balance, maybe life without parole would be the better option.

IMHO, a principled defense of free speech requires defending odious speech rights along with those we agree with, and a principled opposition to capital punishment requires that we oppose executing Timothy McVeigh and Adolf Eichmann just as much as we do whatever mentally handicapped minority Texas plans on executing next.

92 Pie-onist Overlord  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 11:52:48am

Has Pope Francis been officially nominated for the NPP? Because he is so gonna win.

93 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 11:54:12am

re: #92 Pie-onist Overlord

Has Pope Francis been officially nominated for the NPP? Because he is so gonna win.

well, he’s already gotten Time Magazine’s “Person of the Year” and the cover of “Rolling Stone”, NPP will be the trifecta.

94 leftynyc  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 11:54:26am

re: #61 jaunte

NY1 political reporter Michael Scotto “is related to Anthony Scotto, former head of the Brooklyn longshoremen’s union and a former boss in the Gambino crime family. ”
pagesix.com

It points to a very not nice part of my personality that I laughed after reading that.

95 Mattand  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 11:54:35am

re: #92 Pie-onist Overlord

Has Pope Francis been officially nominated for the NPP? Because he is so gonna win.

Heh, if the award is for being slightly less homophobic and bigoted than your 265 predecessors, sure.

Then again, that was an incredibly low bar to clear.

96 Pie-onist Overlord  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 11:55:59am

re: #95 Mattand

Heh, if the award is for being slightly less homophobic and bigoted than your 500+ predecessors, sure.

Then again, that was an incredibly low bar to clear.

I’d like to see Malala win.

97 kerFuFFler  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 11:56:47am

re: #70 Targetpractice

I honestly don’t see any reason to pursue the death penalty. There’s no chance of him ever seeing the outside world again and putting him on death row just means the Feds will now spend more money fighting against appeals for years to come.

Usually I think that the expense of death penalty cases is a sufficient reason to settle for life imprisonment in spite of the brutality of your garden variety murder. But when someone sets off bombs killing and maiming so many people, I think the state is justified spending the extra money. With so many nutcases talking about seceding, watering the tree of liberty, and taking up arms against our elected government it makes sense for the state to make it clear that such attacks against the government or the citizenry will be punished by death.

98 Targetpractice  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 11:59:49am

re: #97 kerFuFFler

Usually I think that the expense of death penalty cases is a sufficient reason to settle for life imprisonment in spite of the brutality of your garden variety murder. But when someone sets off bombs killing and maiming so many people, I think the state is justified spending the extra money. With so many nutcases talking about seceding, watering the tree of liberty, and taking up arms against our elected government it makes sense for the state to make it clear that such attacks against the government or the citizenry will be punished by death.

Only way it would be a deterrent is if the execution was quick, but since that would deprive any death row inmate of their ability to appeal their sentence, it’s just not plausible and I’d argue that that’s a damned good thing.

99 Mattand  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 12:02:41pm

re: #97 kerFuFFler

Usually I think that the expense of death penalty cases is a sufficient reason to settle for life imprisonment in spite of the brutality of your garden variety murder. But when someone sets off bombs killing and maiming so many people, I think the state is justified spending the extra money. With so many nutcases talking about seceding, watering the tree of liberty, and taking up arms against our elected government it makes sense for the state to make it clear that such attacks against the government or the citizenry will be punished by death.

The death penalty is not a deterrent.

All the conservatives/tea baggers making noises about starting Civil War 2: Electric Boogaloo are no different than Al Queda and that ilk. They’re jonesing as badly for martyrdom as Bin Laden did.

I’m probably in the minority but court-sanctioned murder is still murder. If Tsarnev gets the death penalty, I will not shed a tear. However, killing him isn’t going to bring anyone back or re-grow lost limbs.

100 BongCrodny  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 12:04:00pm

re: #76 Pie-onist Overlord

[Embedded content]

It looks like a subway car.

101 Pie-onist Overlord  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 12:04:18pm

re: #99 Mattand

However, killing him isn’t going to bring anyone back or re-grow lost limbs.

I don’t think anyone has ever argued, in favor of the death penalty, that it will cause the victims to become un-murdered.

102 Lidane  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 12:04:41pm

re: #96 Pie-onist Overlord

I’d like to see Malala win.

The dudebro outrage if she wins and Snowden gets ignored will be both predictable and pathetic.

103 Testy Toad T  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 12:04:49pm

Frankly, guaranteed life in prison sounds like a much stronger deterrent to me than the death penalty, particularly in a ‘HURR HURR ANAL RAPE JOKE GOES HERE’ US prison.

104 Petero1818  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 12:04:54pm

Rancid Peanut is likely on the General Mills payroll. Me thinks he was paid extra to deliver lots of traffic for the Cheerios brand on this one.

105 Mattand  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 12:06:09pm

re: #101 Pie-onist Overlord

I don’t think anyone has ever argued, in favor of the death penalty, that it will cause the victims to become un-murdered.

That’s kind of my point. Nothing is accomplished by killing him. Zilch.

106 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 12:06:58pm

re: #75 Petero1818

I think it was wrong of MSNBC to have said “the right wing” - I think they would have been fine to say “some of those on the right” or “many of those on the right”. That said, I think the press in general should boycott interviewing any member of the GOP until they issue a policy statement formally censuring bully / thug like intimidation of the press as was displayed by Grimm this week.

Thing is — can you show me one example of a prominent right winger who supported the Cheerios ads? Because if there’s even one single example, I haven’t seen it.

But I have seen many thousands of right wingers who were outraged and disgusted by the ads, many of them in explicitly racist terms.

Sure, @msnbc was generalizing, and I know we’re supposed to think that’s always wrong, and it usually is, but saying “Maybe the rightwing won’t like it” is pretty much just a simple statement of fact.

107 Petero1818  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 12:07:01pm

re: #103 erik_t

Frankly, guaranteed life in prison sounds like a much stronger deterrent to me than the death penalty, particularly in a ‘HURR HURR ANAL RAPE JOKE GOES HERE’ US prison.

Crucificxion is too good for em sir.

108 Dr Lizardo  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 12:07:49pm

re: #102 Lidane

The dudebro outrage if she wins and Snowden gets ignored will be both predictable and pathetic.

And laughable. I’d like to see Malala win myself.

109 lawhawk  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 12:09:13pm

re: #76 Pie-onist Overlord

[Embedded content]

Thursday on the C/E train? Either that, or someone’s way early for Halloween in the West Village.

110 Mattand  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 12:10:48pm

re: #108 Dr Lizardo

And laughable. I’d like to see Malala win myself.

It kind of speaks to how silly the Nobel nomination process is. My understanding is that I could nominate my dog if I wanted to.

If there were any justice in the world, the committee would look at Malala and go “You know what? Screw Snowden, the Pope and Putin. Here. You deserve this.”

111 Petero1818  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 12:13:54pm

re: #106 Charles Johnson

Thing is — can you show me one example of a prominent right winger who supported the Cheerios ads? Because if there’s even one single example, I haven’t seen it.

But I have seen many thousands of right wingers who were outraged and disgusted by it, many of them in explicitly racist terms.

Sure, @msnbc was generalizing, and I know we’re supposed to think that’s always wrong, and it usually is, but saying “Maybe the rightwing won’t like it” is pretty much just a simple statement of fact.

First of all I would say that it is not required to come out in favour of an advertisement, saying nothing is in my mind enough to set up a rebutable presumption that one has no problem with it. A Cheerios ad is not a referednum on bi-racial families. When I walk past a bi-racial couple on the street, I do not high five them, nor do I admire their progressiveness. In fact, I don’t really notice it at all (though to be fair I live in a multicultural urban centre where it is pretty common). Saying nothing is enough. To be honest if I saw a GOP member coming out to tell me how wonderful General Mils was, I would think they were a shill.

Generalizing is one thing for a person to do, another for a media outlet whose objective should be more professional.

112 Pie-onist Overlord  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 12:14:38pm

HURR HURR!!!11!! IF BLACK WORKERS ARE PAID LESS THAN WHITE WORKERS, OR PAID NOTHING AT ALL, THEY WILL ALL HAVE TEH JRRBS!!!11!!!!

113 EPR-radar  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 12:14:59pm

It is simply true that racism is one of the characteristic traits of the present-day US right. The correlation of being a RWer with being a racist is not perfect of course, but it is way more than no correlation at all.

As with many other unpleasant truths (e.g., climate change), the institutional GOP response is denial.

114 klys  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 12:15:34pm

I see there’s some nice healthy helpings of irony for the morning. Excellent.

115 piratedan  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 12:16:50pm

re: #106 Charles Johnson

Thing is — can you show me one example of a prominent right winger who supported the Cheerios ads? Because if there’s even one single example, I haven’t seen it.

But I have seen many thousands of right wingers who were outraged and disgusted by the ads, many of them in explicitly racist terms.

Sure, @msnbc was generalizing, and I know we’re supposed to think that’s always wrong, and it usually is, but saying “Maybe the rightwing won’t like it” is pretty much just a simple statement of fact.

well anyone who thinks that MSNBC is solely a “liberal” outlet for news isn’t paying attention. Griffin is hardly a lefty, especially when they give the prime time morning spot to Joe freaking Scarborough. Anyone remember the campaign donation bullshit with Olbermann, that same behavior was condoned by the network when Scarborough did it. Just look at that roster of other noted liberals, Chuck Todd, David Gregory, Andrea Mitchell, commie scum all of them. So when the network backs down over someone stating a well deserved observation on the right over a tweet, this isn’t a huge surprise. Hell, MSNBC does personify both sides of the coin with their morning and evening dichotomy, but hell, there’s no constant voice on the left since Current shut down. At least Al Jazeera is impartial from what I’ve seen.

116 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave of the waffle light)  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 12:16:53pm

re: #113 EPR-radar

It is simply true that racism shouting that Democrats are the real racists is one of the characteristic traits of the present-day US right. The correlation of being a RWer with being a racist denier is not perfect of course, but it is way more than no correlation at all.

As with many other unpleasant truths (e.g., climate change), the institutional GOP response is denial.

117 Dr Lizardo  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 12:17:01pm

re: #110 Mattand

It kind of speaks to how silly the Nobel nomination process is. My understanding is that I could nominate my dog if I wanted to.

If there were any justice in the world, the committee would look at Malala and go “You know what? Screw Snowden, the Pope and Putin. Here. You deserve this.”

Yes, particularly as she actually, you know, took a bullet to the head for her cause.

118 simoom  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 12:17:50pm

Wow, Bill McKibben had an epic twitter meltdown over the fact that we collect intelligence around climate & trade negotiations. He imagines some grand conspiracy where the US wanted the Copenhagen talks to fail, and sabotaged them, when the opposite occurred — the US salvaged a weak accord out of the hopelessly stalled negotiations.

It’s amazing how successfully Greenwald-land has poisoned US politics with conspiratorial thinking, tearing apart natural allies, while cobbling together Frankenstein coalitions of near opposites, who agree on nothing beyond wanting to lash out at a shadowy boogeyman responsible for all ills.

119 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 12:18:46pm

re: #118 simoom

Wow, Bill Mckibbon is having an epic twitter meltdown over the fact that we collect intelligence around climate & trade negotiations. He imagines some grand conspiracy where the US wanted the Copenhagen talks to fail, and sabotaged them, when the opposite occurred — the US salvaged an accord out of the hopelessly stalled negotiations.

[Embedded content]

It’s amazing how successfully Greenwald-land has poisoned US politics with conspiratorial thinking, tearing apart natural allies, while cobbling together Frankenstein coalitions of near opposites, who agree on nothing beyond wanting to lash out at a shadowy boogeyman responsible for all ills.

Libertarianism posions everything.

120 Mattand  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 12:20:18pm

re: #118 simoom

Wow, Bill Mckibbon is having an epic twitter meltdown over the fact that we collect intelligence around climate & trade negotiations. He imagines some grand conspiracy where the US wanted the Copenhagen talks to fail, and sabotaged them, when the opposite occurred — the US salvaged an accord out of the hopelessly stalled negotiations.

[Embedded content]


It’s amazing how successfully Greenwald-land has poisoned US politics with conspiratorial thinking, tearing apart natural allies, while cobbling together Frankenstein coalitions of near opposites, who agree on nothing beyond wanting to lash out at a shadowy boogeyman responsible for all ills.

Not to condone any missteps by the NSA, but I’m getting really sick of the impaction that the US is the only country who spies. It’s beyond childish to think that Israel, Britain, France, et. al. aren’t doing the same thing.

121 klys  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 12:22:55pm

re: #119 Charles Johnson

Libertarianism posions everything.

Libertarianism: embraced by angry and/or stupid and/or selfish white males everywhere (unless they’re pro-social conservatism).

(In my experience, clearly should not be mistaken for data.)

122 darthstar  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 12:23:11pm
123 wrenchwench  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 12:26:00pm

re: #121 klys

Libertarianism: embraced by angry and/or stupid and/or selfish white males everywhere (unless they’re pro-social conservatism).

(In my experience, clearly should not be mistaken for data.)

Many Libertarians are also social conservatives. Doesn’t sound like what ‘libertarianism’ should stand for, but libertarians only stand for themselves (each on their own, not collectively, of course).

124 EPR-radar  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 12:26:27pm

re: #121 klys

Libertarianism: embraced by angry and/or stupid and/or selfish white males everywhere (unless they’re pro-social conservatism).

(In my experience, clearly should not be mistaken for data.)

I’m amused when I encounter a true-believing libertarian who is still a “temporarily embarrassed millionaire”.

From a certain POV, it is rational for a sociopathic zillionaire to be a libertarian, but the wannabes embracing their serfdom as a positive good is a sight to behold.

This may be the economic equivalent of young earth creationism in terms of abject stupidity.

125 darthstar  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 12:28:39pm
126 Hercules Grytpype-Thynneghazi  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 12:30:37pm

re: #79 jamesfirecat

The problem is that you are not allowed to decide that only the “super guilty” people get the death penalty while others get life in religion, there’s no way you could legally define “super guilty” in any way that was just and fair.

Noooo! Anything but that!

127 Dr Lizardo  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 12:30:42pm

re: #124 EPR-radar

I’m amused when I encounter a true-believing libertarian who is still a “temporarily embarrassed millionaire”.

From a certain POV, it is rational for a sociopathic zillionaire to be a libertarian, but the wannabes embracing their serfdom as a positive good is a sight to behold.

This may be the economic equivalent of young earth creationism in terms of abject stupidity.

In Libertarianese, “Temporarily Embarrassed Millionaire” translates to “Living In Mom’s Basement” in everyday English.

128 klys  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 12:32:04pm

re: #123 wrenchwench

Many Libertarians are also social conservatives. Doesn’t sound like what ‘libertarianism’ should stand for, but libertarians only stand for themselves (each on their own, not collectively, of course).

My in-brain functional definition says that if they’re trying to use government to enforce socially conservative views, they get sorted into the Republican camp.

Otherwise I tend to see little difference between them.

129 darthstar  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 12:33:02pm
130 A Mom Anon  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 12:33:52pm

re: #128 klys

I’m not sure I’ve ever seen a left leaning libertarian. They mostly seem to be embarrassed former republicans, much like the many “independents” that have sprung up since the GOP lost it’s freaking mind.

131 leftynyc  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 12:35:37pm

re: #112 Pie-onist Overlord

HURR HURR!!!11!! IF BLACK WORKERS ARE PAID LESS THAN WHITE WORKERS, OR PAID NOTHING AT ALL, THEY WILL ALL HAVE TEH JRRBS!!!11!!!!

[Embedded content]

There is not one legitimate economist that will state that raising the minimum wage will cost even 1 job.

132 wrenchwench  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 12:36:09pm

re: #128 klys

My in-brain functional definition says that if they’re trying to use government to enforce socially conservative views, they get sorted into the Republican camp.

Otherwise I tend to see little difference between them.

Republicatarians? Sounds like something that eats republics.

133 klys  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 12:38:08pm

re: #132 wrenchwench

Republicatarians? Sounds like something that eats republics.

Or people who support rule by a republic of cats.

134 EPR-radar  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 12:38:15pm

re: #130 A Mom Anon

I’m not sure I’ve ever seen a left leaning libertarian. They mostly seem to be embarrassed former republicans, much like the many “independents” that have sprung up since the GOP lost it’s freaking mind.

That’s not too surprising. The freedom of the wealthy to own all (including poor people) without any social/cultural restraint is the core of libertarianism, and this is difficult to reconcile with anything left of center.

135 darthstar  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 12:40:13pm

136 klys  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 12:40:13pm

re: #130 A Mom Anon

I’m not sure I’ve ever seen a left leaning libertarian. They mostly seem to be embarrassed former republicans, much like the many “independents” that have sprung up since the GOP lost it’s freaking mind.

Among college guys flirting with the concept, I have seen a lot of support for socially liberal live-and-let-live type, although this is primarily related to things like same-sex marriage and pot.

Women’s issues don’t seem to register with them at all. And you don’t meet many females who flirt with the concept in college, strangely. Or people of color.

137 klys  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 12:41:12pm

re: #134 EPR-radar

That’s not too surprising. The freedom of the wealthy to own all (including poor people) without any social/cultural restraint is the core of libertarianism, and this is difficult to reconcile with anything left of center.

This assumes they are actually being anything related to internally consistent with their thinking.

138 Mattand  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 12:41:51pm

re: #130 A Mom Anon

I’m not sure I’ve ever seen a left leaning libertarian. They mostly seem to be embarrassed former republicans, much like the many “independents” that have sprung up since the GOP lost it’s freaking mind.

Penn Jilette of Penn and Teller leaps to mind. He often describes himself as far right on money and as far left on personal freedom as one can go. Not really sure that’s true left-leaning, but compared to other self-described libertarians, it’s practically being a hippy.

He has taken to embracing anarcho-captilism over the last few years, so take that how you will.

139 wrenchwench  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 12:42:03pm

re: #133 klys

Or people who support rule by a republic of cats.

In case you missed it:

Youtube Video

140 klys  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 12:42:40pm

re: #139 wrenchwench

In case you missed it:

[Embedded content]

That’s great. :D

141 wrenchwench  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 12:43:12pm

re: #138 Mattand

Penn Jilette of Penn and Teller leaps to mind. He often describes himself as far right on money and as far left on personal freedom as one can go. Not really sure that’s true left-leaning, but compared to other self-described libertarians, it’s practically being a hippy.

He has taken to embracing anarcho-captilism over the last few years, so take that how you will.

I take it as ‘dudebro’.

142 Dr. Matt  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 12:43:17pm

re: #130 A Mom Anon

I’m not sure I’ve ever seen a left leaning libertarian. They mostly seem to be embarrassed former republicans, much like the many “independents” that have sprung up since the GOP lost it’s freaking mind.

When I lived in Texas, I knew a lot of socially liberal Republicans that were libertarian. But, ultimately, always voted GOP

143 wrenchwench  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 12:44:07pm

re: #140 klys

That’s great. :D

I think I’m up to 50 viewings with a snorting giggle after each one.

144 klys  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 12:44:08pm

re: #141 wrenchwench

I take it as ‘dudebro’.

Pretty much. Liberal on social stuff as it relates to men + libertarian on economics = dudebro.

145 simoom  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 12:44:37pm

re: #118 simoom

This paragraph from the Huffpo article is just idiotic:

Obama has defended the NSA’s work as important in fighting terrorism at home and abroad. But the latest Snowden document indicates that the agency plays a broader role in protecting U.S. interests internationally.

No kidding. Also, Pres. Obama didn’t limit his defense of US intelligence to counter-terrorism — from his recent speech:

“Now let me be clear. Our intelligence agencies will continue to gather information about the intentions of governments, as opposed to ordinary citizens, around the world in the same way that the intelligence services of every other nation does. We will not apologize simply because our services may be more effective.”

146 Petero1818  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 12:47:11pm

re: #142 Dr. Matt

When I lived in Texas, I knew a lot of socially liberal Republicans that were libertarian. But, ultimately, always voted GOP

In Canada there are plenty of socially liberal but fiscally conservative people. We sometimes call ourselves Jews. / or the left wing of the Conservative party or the right wing of the liberal party. I find it hard to believe in TX that a socially liberal person could vote with the TX GOP as the social issues are so central to the discussion but in reality, people vote with their particular issues in mind.

147 EPR-radar  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 12:48:29pm

re: #138 Mattand

Penn Jilette of Penn and Teller leaps to mind. He often describes himself as far right on money and as far left on personal freedom as one can go. Not really sure that’s true left-leaning, but compared to other self-described libertarians, it’s practically being a hippy.

He has taken to embracing anarcho-captilism over the last few years, so take that how you will.

I tend to see people like this as being the real libertarians. Peter Thiel is another good example.

Embarrassed republicans who can’t get rid of their so-con political fetishes don’t really count as libertarians in my opinion.

148 Dr. Matt  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 12:51:48pm

re: #146 Petero1818

I find it hard to believe in TX that a socially liberal person could vote with the TX GOP as the social issues are so central to the discussion but in reality, people vote with their particular issues in mind.

Voting GOP in Texas, irrespective of how it personally affects you, is innate….it’s part of their lifestyle, part of their genetic code. For real. They are born into Republican families and don’t know any better. The Democratic Party is considered effeminate while the GOP is machismo.

149 BongCrodny  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 12:53:23pm

re: #138 Mattand

Penn Jilette of Penn and Teller leaps to mind. He often describes himself as far right on money and as far left on personal freedom as one can go. Not really sure that’s true left-leaning, but compared to other self-described libertarians, it’s practically being a hippy.

He has taken to embracing anarcho-captilism over the last few years, so take that how you will.

I remember reading that an episode or two of P&T’s “Bullshit!” series on Showtime towed the “it’s not happening” line re: global warming.

Maybe to Penn that just falls under the “far right on money” scale.

150 Petero1818  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 12:54:53pm

re: #148 Dr. Matt

Voting GOP in Texas, irrespective of how it personally affects you, is innate….it’s part of their lifestyle, part of their genetic code. For real. They are born into Republican families and don’t know any better. The Democratic Party is considered effeminate while the GOP is machismo.

What they need to mix things up is to create a male barrell racing league.

151 danarchy  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 12:54:54pm

re: #131 leftynyc

There is not one legitimate economist that will state that raising the minimum wage will cost even 1 job.

Not entirely sure that’s true.
38 economic experts polled

152 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 12:55:09pm

re: #112 Pie-onist Overlord

HURR HURR!!!11!! IF BLACK WORKERS ARE PAID LESS THAN WHITE WORKERS, OR PAID NOTHING AT ALL, THEY WILL ALL HAVE TEH JRRBS!!!11!!!!

To immediately be following by the outrage about the blacks trying to steal all the jobs by undercutting getting a fair wage for the work.

153 lawhawk  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 12:56:45pm

re: #129 darthstar

I’m betting that the GOP will have a very odd way of showing that they’ve given up on deny/delay/destroy Obamacare. In other words, they’ll be inserting poison pill provisions wherever they think they can do damage, score points, or otherwise raise campaign funds by running against provision of affordable health insurance to millions of Americans.

154 dog philosopher  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 12:57:34pm

re: #146 Petero1818

but in reality, people vote with their particular issues in mind.

or without mind

155 Gus  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 12:57:37pm

OK. Finally fixed the fecking filter so it doesn’t load images.

156 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 12:58:41pm

🌄🌅🌆🌇🌈🌉🌊🌋🌌🌎

157 Petero1818  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 12:59:22pm

re: #156 Charles Johnson

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I disagree./

158 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 1:00:04pm

re: #156 Charles Johnson

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Just checking. I think Javascript can’t handle these characters.

159 Justanotherhuman  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 1:00:14pm

First photos of Bulatov, the protester missing for 8 days.

Image: BfQW7eqIMAAzCz-.jpg

160 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 1:00:17pm

Yup. Javascript no like emojis.

161 BongCrodny  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 1:00:52pm

re: #158 Charles Johnson

Just checking. I think Javascript can’t handle these characters.

I’m showing blocks and question marks.

162 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 1:00:58pm

Javascript apparently only supports Unicode up to four hex digits. The emoji set uses 5 digits.

163 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 1:01:49pm

re: #162 Charles Johnson

Javascript apparently only supports Unicode up to four hex digits. The emoji set uses 5 digits.

I saw them just fine on your first post. They only showed up as a string of ?s when quoted.

164 wrenchwench  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 1:02:48pm

re: #147 EPR-radar

I tend to see people like this as being the real libertarians. Peter Thiel is another good example.

Embarrassed republicans who can’t get rid of their so-con political fetishes don’t really count as libertarians in my opinion.

Dudebro, perhaps recovering:

The Diversity Myth

Thiel is the co-author, with David O. Sacks, of the 1995 book The Diversity Myth: ‘Multiculturalism’ and the Politics of Intolerance at Stanford. The book was critical of what it perceived as political correctness and a dilution of academic rigor. It “drew a sharp rebuttal from then-Stanford Provost (and later President George W. Bush’s National Security Advisor) Condoleezza Rice.”[3] According to his 2011 New Yorker profile, Thiel has backtracked somewhat from his assertions in the book:

“All of the identity-related things are in my mind much more nuanced,” he said. “I think there is a gay experience, I think there is a black experience, I think there is a woman’s experience that is meaningfully different. I also think there was a tendency to exaggerate it and turn it into an ideological category.” But his reaction against political correctness, he said, was just as narrowly ideological.[13]

165 dog philosopher  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 1:03:02pm

re: #138 Mattand

far right on money and as far left on personal freedom

hmm i can’t say i understand what “far right on money” means in this context

lower taxes and balance the budget? if so, what gets cut?

166 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 1:03:20pm

So you can actually post Unicode characters with 5 digits and they’ll display fine, but if someone quotes the comment you get those dreaded question mark things, because the quoting function grabs the text of the comment with Javascript.

167 RadicalModerate  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 1:04:40pm

re: #138 Mattand

Penn Jilette of Penn and Teller leaps to mind. He often describes himself as far right on money and as far left on personal freedom as one can go. Not really sure that’s true left-leaning, but compared to other self-described libertarians, it’s practically being a hippy.

He has taken to embracing anarcho-captilism over the last few years, so take that how you will.

Used to be that the failed “supply-side” trickle-down evangelists were the mainstay of the right, but that really isn’t the case anymore.

I have to ask - what is now considered “far right” on money?
The LUAP NOR bots who want to eliminate the Federal Reserve?
The “Flat Tax” crowd who want to shift the tax burden to the poor?
The folks who want to eliminate all federal and state regulations on businesses?
The “Let’s be like Greece” austerity crowd?
All of the above?

168 Gus  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 1:04:42pm

I’m hungry.

169 Dr. Matt  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 1:04:47pm

Emojis would vault this website to the second best on the interwebs (The Chive is number 1….sorry).

170 Ian G.  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 1:06:18pm

re: #118 simoom

Sigh….

C’mon Bill, you’re better than that. The ugly truth is that EVERY friggin’ country except for the Federated States of Micronesia doesn’t want to actually implement climate policies with teeth. They just want this kabuki theater, and then to point fingers when the deal falls through.

I hate to say it, but until green energy is more cost-effective than dead dinosaur energy, we’re not going to make climate progress in any of these talks.

171 Gus  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 1:08:16pm

Might be getting 6 inches of snow… OMG WE’RE ALL GOING TO DIE!!!!!!!!!

172 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 1:09:34pm
173 Ian G.  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 1:10:41pm

re: #171 Gus

Might be getting 6 inches of snow… OMG WE’RE ALL GOING TO DIE!!!!!!!!!

Wait, where are you located? According to the map I’m looking at, it’s just Usual Suspect places under winter weather advisories (Great Lakes, Rockies, and mercifully, the Sierra Nevada). We’re not going to see a sequel to the great Alabama/Georgia snowmageddon….at least not this week.

174 Dr. Matt  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 1:10:51pm

Amanda Knox Verdict Found Guilty Of Murder…AGAIN.

An Italian court has found Amanda Knox guilty of murder in her latest trial on Thursday, ABC reports.

This is the third trial for Knox and her Italian ex-boyfriend, Rafaelle Sollecito, in the 2007 murder of Knox’s British roommate, Meredith Kercher. An Italian court found Knox and Sollecito guilty in 2009, but the pair was acquitted in 2011 on appeal after spending four years in jail.

175 Gus  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 1:11:39pm

re: #173 Ian G.

Wait, where are you located? According to the map I’m looking at, it’s just Usual Suspect places under winter weather advisories (Great Lakes, Rockies, and mercifully, the Sierra Nevada). We’re not going to see a sequel to the great Alabama/Georgia snowmageddon….at least not this week.

Denver.

176 Justanotherhuman  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 1:11:54pm

re: #170 Ian G.

Sigh….

C’mon Bill, you’re better than that. The ugly truth is that EVERY friggin’ country except for the Federated States of Micronesia doesn’t want to actually implement climate policies with teeth. They just want this kabuki theater, and then to point fingers when the deal falls through.

I hate to say it, but until green energy is more cost-effective than dead dinosaur energy, we’re not going to make climate progress in any of these talks.

Yeah, but you know the old saying, “You can take a horse to water, but you can’t make it drink.”

Solar panels have been available for years, and guess what? Most people say that they spoil the look of the house. Of course, they also get some getting used to and aren’t right for some locations, but those who use them successfully report having all the energy they need and even selling it back to the power co.

Yes, we’re that shallow and backward a people, that we don’t demand the technology because it “doesn’t look good” to us and might spoil the roof line. Sure, it can be a major expense, but so is granite, marble, wood floors and other luxury amenities, including oversized refrigerators, ranges and just our over-large houses in general.

177 Gus  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 1:12:42pm

Typically, I got to Huffington Post for the latest side boob galleries.

//

178 A Mom Anon  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 1:12:47pm

re: #171 Gus

I’m guessing you guys out in CO have actual snowplows and salt trucks. Unlike some places….

179 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 1:13:30pm

re: #135 darthstar

[Embedded image]

I do, but it’s our classical music station ;)

180 Gus  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 1:14:22pm

re: #178 A Mom Anon

I’m guessing you guys out in CO have actual snowplows and salt trucks. Unlike some places….

On the collector streets. They don’t plow side streets. 6 inches isn’t much. We haven’t had a real snowstorm for some time now.

181 Ian G.  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 1:14:45pm

re: #175 Gus

Denver.

Oh, so you’re used to that….right?

182 Dr. Matt  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 1:15:51pm

re: #177 Gus

Typically, I got to Huffington Post for the latest side boob galleries.

//

They single-handedly popularized the side boob and under boob.

183 leftynyc  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 1:17:04pm

re: #151 danarchy

Not entirely sure that’s true.
38 economic experts polled

The ones I’ve seen interviewed (mostly on CNBC) have said that the minimum wage has been raised something like 30 times and has never increased unemployment numbers. Even on the chart you linked, it’s barely 1/3 that believe it.

184 jaunte  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 1:18:21pm

re: #172 Charles Johnson

An intern sacrificed for Reince’s stunt is too high a price.

185 dog philosopher  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 1:18:24pm

38 economic experts polled

i’m against this kind of thing unless actual poles are involved

186 ObserverArt  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 1:18:33pm

Killgore, I see you have the auto—response program up and running. Next you need to link that puppy up with a fact-checker and its all good to go.

///

187 Mattand  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 1:18:58pm

re: #149 BongCrodny

I remember reading that an episode or two of P&T’s “Bullshit!” series on Showtime towed the “it’s not happening” line re: global warming.

Maybe to Penn that just falls under the “far right on money” scale.

They’ve taken a tremendous amount of criticism over their global warming denialism in the skeptic community. It’s particularly noxious as much of their act is built around embracing rational and critical thought.

I think their AGW meltdown (as it were) is that government may have to get businesses to clean up their act. For outspoken atheists, their absolute belief that the Invisible Hand fixes all is amusing.

188 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 1:21:35pm

re: #176 Justanotherhuman

Yeah, but you know the old saying, “You can take a horse to water, but you can’t make it drink.”

Solar panels have been available for years, and guess what? Most people say that they spoil the look of the house. Of course, they also get some getting used to and aren’t right for some locations, but those who use them successfully report having all the energy they need and even selling it back to the power co.

Yes, we’re that shallow and backward a people, that we don’t demand the technology because it “doesn’t look good” to us and might spoil the roof line. Sure, it can be a major expense, but so is granite, marble, wood floors and other luxury amenities, including oversized refrigerators, ranges and just our over-large houses in general.

I have solar panels and think they look mighty fine. Everyone who visits and sees them wants to have them, too.

189 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 1:22:59pm

re: #156 Charles Johnson

��������������������

190 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 1:24:56pm

re: #156 Charles Johnson

��������������������

191 Please Proceed  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 1:26:01pm

re: #190 Charles Johnson

Please proceed.

192 RadicalModerate  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 1:26:53pm

re: #171 Gus

Might be getting 6 inches of snow… OMG WE’RE ALL GOING TO DIE!!!!!!!!!

I got really annoyed with the people pooh-poohing the troubles that Atlanta and other southern cities had over the past couple of days because they didn’t get past the “two inches of snow” bit.

They need to understand that winter weather in the Southern US has an entirely different dynamic than what typically occurs elsewhere. I can say from personal experience that road conditions from a foot of snow in Pennsylvania is much less hazardous to deal with than 2 inches in Dallas - for two reasons - the weather patterns for snow/ice in the Southern US is completely different than elsewhere (the main engine for those events is driven from Gulf moisture), and because the infrastructure that is in place isn’t designed with frequent snow/ice events.

193 danarchy  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 1:26:56pm

re: #183 leftynyc

The ones I’ve seen interviewed (mostly on CNBC) have said that the minimum wage has been raised something like 30 times and has never increased unemployment numbers. Even on the chart you linked, it’s barely 1/3 that believe it.

And about a 1/3 disagree and the rest were uncertain. Just reading the expert comments it doesn’t seem they think the effect would be huge, but you made a pretty absolutist statement.

194 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 1:27:06pm

Oh well, tried a couple of things, didn’t work.

195 Testy Toad T  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 1:27:49pm

The Dudebro-Wingnut convergence continues apace.

How to stop the NSA? Start with new bills at each statehouse, activists say [Ars Technica]

Sigh. Yes. Nullification. Of course.

196 wrenchwench  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 1:30:01pm

re: #194 Charles Johnson

Oh well, tried a couple of things, didn’t work.

Hey, I never say that when I’m fixing a bike!

(I say, ‘It’s going to cost less and work better if I sell you a new one.’)

197 EPR-radar  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 1:30:04pm

re: #184 jaunte

An intern sacrificed for Reince’s stunt is too high a price.

Too true. However, this issue isn’t going to go away, and the intern merely repeated what all in the world already know (including the RWNJs that engage in this kind of denial).

E.g., just before the general election in 2012

washingtonpost.com

“Let me just be candid: My party is full of racists” —- Col. Lawrence Wilkerson, former chief of staff for Colin Powell.

198 Testy Toad T  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 1:30:09pm

re: #192 RadicalModerate

They need to understand that winter weather in the Southern US has an entirely different dynamic than what typically occurs elsewhere. I can say from personal experience that road conditions from a foot of snow in Pennsylvania is much less hazardous to deal with than 2 inches in Dallas - for two reasons - the weather patterns for snow/ice in the Southern US is completely different than elsewhere (the main engine for those events is driven from Gulf moisture), and because the infrastructure that is in place isn’t designed with frequent snow/ice events.

And the frothing dipshits in charge are often too proud to say “You know what? We aren’t equipped to handle this. Y’all need to stay home”. Which is TOTALLY FINE TO SAY if it happens to be the truth.

Remove 2/3 of the commuters from that situation and most of the country hears a five-minute blip on the evening news.

I will not point and laugh at their lack of plows, but you’re damned right I’m going to point and laugh at their hubris.

199 Justanotherhuman  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 1:32:54pm

re: #188 Backwoods_Sleuth

I have solar panels and think they look mighty fine. Everyone who visits and sees them wants to have them, too.

That’s wonderful! A lot of it has to do with the developers and builders, too. Of all the crazed bldg boom I saw in this area, not one house was built w/them. And we gets tons of sun, not to mention that most developers clear cut the lots of old growth trees and plant little immature ones that don’t grow over 10 ft. Even the ubiquitous trailer homes down here could be mfg’d w/solar panels which wouldn’t add much to the price. This is an area with a coal fired plant and a nuclear plant owned by Duke Energy and they encourage that crap.

Also, this, removal of limit on solar electric credit limit:

Residential Renewable Energy Tax Credit

Established by The Energy Policy Act of 2005, the federal tax credit for residential energy property initially applied to solar-electric systems, solar water heating systems and fuel cells. The Energy Improvement and Extension Act of 2008 extended the tax credit to small wind-energy systems and geothermal heat pumps, effective January 1, 2008. Other key revisions included an eight-year extension of the credit to December 31, 2016; the ability to take the credit against the alternative minimum tax; and the removal of the $2,000 credit limit for solar-electric systems beginning in 2009.

energy.gov

200 leftynyc  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 1:34:02pm

re: #193 danarchy

And about a 1/3 disagree and the rest were uncertain. Just reading the expert comments it doesn’t seem they think the effect would be huge, but you made a pretty absolutist statement.

And I meant it absolutely - it’s not like there isn’t a history to look at. 30+ increases in the minimum wage, zero effect on unemployment.

201 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave of the waffle light)  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 1:34:50pm

Even a simple hot-water collecting panel that pre-heats water for your hot-water tank is simple and amorizes itself within months…

202 Jack Burton  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 1:36:37pm

re: #195 Testy Toad T

The Dudebro-Wingnut convergence continues apace.

How to stop the NSA? Start with new bills at each statehouse, activists say [Ars Technica]

Sigh. Yes. Nullification. Of course.

Because doing something unconstitutional 50 times to make some kind of asinine point, is better than doing it once the right way.

edited for /
(just in case)

203 danarchy  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 1:38:06pm

re: #200 leftynyc

And I meant it absolutely - it’s not like there isn’t a history to look at. 30+ increases in the minimum wage, zero effect on unemployment.

So you are saying the Stanford, Yale, MIT, Harvard, Princeton economists in that poll who think it will make it harder for low skilled workers to find work are not “legitimate”?

204 Justanotherhuman  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 1:38:30pm

re: #201 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave of the waffle light)

Even a simple hot-water collecting panel that pre-heats water for your hot-water tank is simple and amorizes itself within months…

Yes, a neighbor of my aunt’s had that installed in the 1970s; I think the next buyer removed the panels. Water heating is a large chunk of one’s electric bill, BTW.

205 RadicalModerate  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 1:39:23pm

re: #198 erik_t

And the frothing dipshits in charge are often too proud to say “You know what? We aren’t equipped to handle this. Y’all need to stay home”. Which is TOTALLY FINE TO SAY if it happens to be the truth.

I disagree with this part somewhat, because of my before-mentioned description of how winter weather dynamics work in the Southern states.

I can’t even begin to count the number of false alarms that this area gets because more times than not, temperatures hover just above or just below freezing when the precipitation hits - and when it gets into gear, the warm gulf air takes over and all we get is rainfall. It really is a crapshoot to accurately forecast, because it is extremely rare to have a snow event when temperatures are below 25 degrees, and actually stay there.

206 leftynyc  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 1:39:30pm

re: #203 danarchy

So you are saying the Stanford, Yale, MIT, Harvard, Princeton economists in that poll who think it will make it harder for low skilled workers to find work are not “legitimate”?

I’m saying history does not back them up at all.

207 Decatur Deb  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 1:39:59pm

re: #192 RadicalModerate

I got really annoyed with the people pooh-poohing the troubles that Atlanta and other southern cities had over the past couple of days because they didn’t get past the “two inches of snow” bit.

They need to understand that winter weather in the Southern US has an entirely different dynamic than what typically occurs elsewhere. I can say from personal experience that road conditions from a foot of snow in Pennsylvania is much less hazardous to deal with than 2 inches in Dallas - for two reasons - the weather patterns for snow/ice in the Southern US is completely different than elsewhere (the main engine for those events is driven from Gulf moisture), and because the infrastructure that is in place isn’t designed with frequent snow/ice events.

There’s a good bit of political blaming going about the lack of plows in GA esp, and a bit here in AL. For the most part, we should not have plows. The maintenance and training to make a plowing regime work can’t happen where it snows 2 inches every 5 years. The last time we got snow, the neighbor kids showed up with buckets and asked it they could have our snow to make their snowman.

208 sagehen  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 1:40:07pm

re: #67 Ian G.

In another era, Grimm’s body parts would be found floating in Jamaica Bay.

Don’t be absurd; cement shoes means they never float.

209 EPR-radar  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 1:40:42pm

re: #203 danarchy

So you are saying the Stanford, Yale, MIT, Harvard, Princeton economists in that poll who think it will make it harder for low skilled workers to find work are not “legitimate”?

If it is true that 30+ increases in the minimum wage have never had an observable effect on unemployment, these economists are practicing theology rather than anything that has to do with historical evidence.

210 dog philosopher  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 1:42:22pm

re: #203 danarchy

So you are saying the Stanford, Yale, MIT, Harvard, Princeton economists in that poll who think it will make it harder for low skilled workers to find work are not “legitimate”?

they say they think the increase might have some effect on employment

they don’t say whether or not it will be measurable

211 Stanley Sea  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 1:42:59pm

re: #135 darthstar

[Embedded image]

Hahahaha. The girls at work laugh at me when I pull up, it’s blasting.

212 EPR-radar  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 1:43:36pm

re: #210 dog philosopher

they say they think the increase might have some effect on employment

they don’t say whether or not it will be measurable

I can’t say I’m any more fond of homeopathy about the unmeasurable in public policy than I am in medicine.

213 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 1:45:06pm

re: #201 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave of the waffle light)

Even a simple hot-water collecting panel that pre-heats water for your hot-water tank is simple and amorizes itself within months…

When I lived in northern Illinois, I also had a smallish (maybe 6’x6’) passive hot air solar collector on the roof. Boy, could that sucker kick out the heat! My kids would pull their chairs under the vent in the living room and call it “hot air showers” in winter.

214 Testy Toad T  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 1:45:09pm

re: #205 RadicalModerate

I can’t even begin to count the number of false alarms that this area gets because more times than not, temperatures hover just above or just below freezing when the precipitation hits - and when it gets into gear, the warm gulf air takes over and all we get is rainfall. It really is a crapshoot to accurately forecast, because it is extremely rare to have a snow event when temperatures are below 25 degrees, and actually stay there.

I quote, again, the Atlanta Mayor:


No, sir, you are not. You never will be. That’s okay. Don’t shit the troops. Don’t tell them that forty plows over 200 miles of high-priority roadway are enough to keep things smooth. They are not, and anyone north of Mason-Dixon could have told you so, had you bothered to ask.

This is what Atlanta’s citizens heard from their elected leadership, and those who listened to that leadership were put in a big steaming shitpile worth of trouble.

215 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 1:46:35pm

re: #204 Justanotherhuman

Yes, a neighbor of my aunt’s had that installed in the 1970s; I think the next buyer removed the panels. Water heating is a large chunk of one’s electric bill, BTW.

Yep, water heater is usually the biggest energy hog by far in any house. We’re going to have on-demand water heater in the new house that we’re building. We’ve already tested them and they are freakin brilliant.

216 ObserverArt  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 1:48:21pm

The first company that develops solar panels that look like traditional roofing shingles, slates, tiles or metal panels wins!

And I bet that is coming…

217 Decatur Deb  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 1:49:54pm

re: #216 ObserverArt

The first company that develops solar panels that look like traditional roofing shingles, slates, tiles or metal panels wins!

And I bet that is coming…

Already here IIRC, at a university, but the installation is highly specialized.

218 Jack Burton  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 1:51:07pm

re: #216 ObserverArt

The first company that develops solar panels that look like traditional roofing shingles, slates, tiles or metal panels wins!

And I bet that is coming…

scientificamerican.com

219 dog philosopher  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 1:51:29pm

re: #212 EPR-radar

I can’t say I’m any more fond of homeopathy about the unmeasurable in public policy than I am in medicine.

as an engineer i’m used to hearing wonderfully convincing arguments about why such-and-such a thing must be true - except that it turns out it isn’t

220 Testy Toad T  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 1:51:46pm

re: #216 ObserverArt

The first company that develops solar panels that look like traditional roofing shingles, slates, tiles or metal panels wins!

And I bet that is coming…

You forgot “dirt cheap”.

221 Justanotherhuman  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 1:52:09pm

re: #216 ObserverArt

The first company that develops solar panels that look like traditional roofing shingles, slates, tiles or metal panels wins!

And I bet that is coming…

People want to be independent?

Well, free yourself from the electric company!

222 Lidane  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 1:52:35pm


Finally, none of this can happen before specific enforcement triggers have been implemented to fulfill our promise to the American people that from here on, our immigration laws will indeed be enforced.

So as usual, the GOP want a permanent indentured underclass. All they will ever do is shift the goal posts so that the triggers are never met, keeping our current fucked up system in place.

223 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 1:52:35pm

re: #214 Testy Toad T

I quote, again, the Atlanta Mayor:

[Embedded content]


No, sir, you are not. You never will be. That’s okay. Don’t shit the troops. Don’t tell them that forty plows over 200 miles of high-priority roadway are enough to keep things smooth. They are not, and anyone north of Mason-Dixon could have told you so, had you bothered to ask.

This is what Atlanta’s citizens heard from their elected leadership, and those who listened to that leadership were put in a big steaming shitpile worth of trouble.

And along with the bolded part, they had only 700 tons of salt/sand. I did the math on that in a thread downstairs yesterday using the usual standard spread rate of 300-400 pounds per lane per mile.
No way was that amount of salt/sand adequate and by looking at the photos, it was obvious.
It’s also obvious that the mayor and governor were totally blindsided by the storm and had no previous experience remotely close to anything other than a best-case-scenario.

224 dog philosopher  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 1:53:27pm

re: #217 Decatur Deb

Already here IIRC, at a university, but the installation is highly specialized.

and the kryptonite is expensive

225 Lidane  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 1:53:30pm

re: #219 dog philosopher

as an engineer i’m used to hearing wonderfully convincing arguments about why such-and-such a thing must be true - except that it turns out it isn’t

So basically, the “controlled demolition” 9/11 conspiracy sets your teeth on edge?

226 Romantic Heretic  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 1:53:48pm

re: #121 klys

Libertarianism: embraced by angry and/or stupid and/or selfish white males everywhere (unless they’re pro-social conservatism).

(In my experience, clearly should not be mistaken for data.)

A breakdown of the various categories of libertarianism.

Also, Marxism of The Right.

227 ObserverArt  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 1:53:50pm

re: #217 Decatur Deb

Already here IIRC, at a university, but the installation is highly specialized.

Yeah, I can imagine. But like all things someone will break some kind of new technology and then like all things it will become less expensive.

I did some roofing on my garage two years ago, and dark grey roofing shingles sure warm up in the sun really fast…and that’s when I started to think, hey…what if these had some kind of a dark colored, textured photo cell as a surface and little leads on ‘em.

228 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 1:54:52pm
229 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 1:55:10pm
230 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 1:55:20pm

re: #216 ObserverArt

The first company that develops solar panels that look like traditional roofing shingles, slates, tiles or metal panels wins!

And I bet that is coming…

There actually are some prototypes now, several in fact. And most of them are American-made.
I’m also closely watching battery innovations because I would sure love to replace my heavy-duty gel cells with something that takes up much less space.

231 danarchy  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 1:55:35pm

re: #210 dog philosopher

they say they think the increase might have some effect on employment

they don’t say whether or not it will be measurable

The question they are answering was this, notice the word noticeably:

Raising the federal minimum wage to $9 per hour would make it noticeably harder for low-skilled workers to find employment.

It is also a smaller raise than is being talked about now. I am not commenting on the correctness of their answers, but the original comment was
“There is not one legitimate economist that will state that raising the minimum wage will cost even 1 job.”

That is all I was commenting on. If the comment was something like “most economists think there won’t be any measurable effect to the job market” I would have gone right past it without even questioning it as that’s pretty much my opinion too.

232 Testy Toad T  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 1:56:15pm

re: #223 Backwoods_Sleuth

It’s also obvious that the mayor and governor were totally blindsided by the storm and had no previous experience remotely close to anything other than a best-case-scenario.

Yeah, no freaking kidding.

Reporters hammered Deal and his staff with questions about the state’s preparedness for the storm and questioned why a state of emergency wasn’t declared before the storm hit and why local meteorologist’s predictions were ignored. Deal said the state relied on the National Weather Service models, which showed metro Atlanta would not bare the brunt of the storm.

The Georgia Emergency Management Agency Director Charley English said the emergency operations center was only partially operational by 3 p.m. on Tuesday and appeared clueless to the condition of metro roads, denying they were heavily gridlocked. Deal quickly cut him off and disagreed with that assessment.

Hell, I was watching Google Maps with fascination by noon EST. I knew it was a complete charlie foxtrot. They knew a storm was coming (Winter Storm Warnings were posted Sunday night, if not before) and they didn’t even try to bring up their emergency operations center until after things got bad?

I’m definitely sympathetic with the idea that the South has neither the capability to handle very severe winter storms, nor any real need for that capability, but COME. ON.

233 sagehen  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 1:56:54pm

re: #207 Decatur Deb

There’s a good bit of political blaming going about the lack of plows in GA esp, and a bit here in AL. For the most part, we should not have plows. The >maintenance and >training to make a plowing regime work can’t happen where it snows 2 inches every 5 years. The last time we got snow, the neighbor kids showed up with buckets and asked it they could have our snow to make their snowman.

In the late 70’s, Los Angeles once got an inch of snow… since the entire county only has but the one plow (it’s needed up in Tehachapi on a semi-regular basis, 20 miles back and forth over the grapevine), the sensible thing to do was everybody just stay home and wait for it to melt. It took all the way until 2pm, problem solved.

234 EPR-radar  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 1:57:20pm

re: #228 Charles Johnson

What a craven dog this MSNBC president is. He gets the really big bucks for wetting himself in panic when a GOP hack gets the vapors.

235 dog philosopher  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 1:58:14pm

re: #225 Lidane

So basically, the “controlled demolition” 9/11 conspiracy sets your teeth on edge?

i’m just against the idea that anybody’s theory “must” be correct merely because it’s “so obvious”

theories should ipso facto be testable, and not considered proven until thoroughly tested

236 ObserverArt  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 1:59:04pm

re: #220 Testy Toad T

You forgot “dirt cheap”.

Remember what RAM used to cost? Everything starts out expensive and then technology breaks and the race is on.

I have a 100 year old home in an area that is being restored, and suffered some hail damage on the west facing roof. Do you know what it costs to replace slate? My insurance company freaked out. I settled with them and the roofing company to use quality recycled slate and it still came out to $20,000 +. And two years later that insurance company bowed out.

So, I imagine in the areas around here (Columbus, Ohio) that have the new McMansions, that type of costs could fit right in.

237 Justanotherhuman  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 2:00:29pm

re: #226 Romantic Heretic

A breakdown of the various categories of libertarianism.

Also, Marxism of The Right.

Hahaha, too much Heinlein. : )

238 Lidane  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 2:00:44pm

Watching the GOP flail around on immigration is pathetic:


And they wonder why they’re becoming a regional white party.

239 Romantic Heretic  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 2:00:47pm

re: #139 wrenchwench

In case you missed it:

[Embedded content]

I love the look on its face at the end. “I meant to do that.”

240 klys  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 2:02:09pm

re: #235 dog philosopher

i’m just against the idea that anybody’s theory “must” be correct merely because it’s “so obvious”

theories should ipso facto be testable, and not considered proven until thoroughly tested

You want the science definition of a theory while the rest of the world uses it to mean hypothesis.

We are unfortunately fighting a losing battle there, I think.

241 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave of the waffle light)  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 2:02:46pm

re: #236 ObserverArt

Remember what RAM used to cost? Everything starts out expensive and then technology breaks and the race is on.

Especially if you get the government and/or the military involved in it. But Congress passes bills that make it difficult for the military to use anything but traditional energy sources.

242 TedStriker  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 2:03:18pm

re: #207 Decatur Deb

There’s a good bit of political blaming going about the lack of plows in GA esp, and a bit here in AL. For the most part, we should not have plows. The >maintenance and >training to make a plowing regime work can’t happen where it snows 2 inches every 5 years. The last time we got snow, the neighbor kids showed up with buckets and asked it they could have our snow to make their snowman.

It doesn’t mean that AL and GA shouldn’t at least have more stores of road salt and truck-mounted salt spreaders/brine tanks, like we do here in TN.

I have friends in the Birmingham area and a huge swath of my company’s customers across AL and GA that were stuck in this major clusterfuck over the past couple of days; despite GA Gov. Deal and Atlanta’s mayor trying to pin the blame on NOAA/NWS over their forecast, they (along with the AL authorities) dropped the ball big time.

I know that AL and GA doesn’t get snow like this very often, but there was absolutely no excuse for how this all went down.

243 dog philosopher  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 2:03:54pm

re: #231 danarchy

The question they are answering was this, notice the word noticeably:

Raising the federal minimum wage to $9 per hour would make it noticeably harder for low-skilled workers to find employment.

It is also a smaller raise than is being talked about now. I am not commenting on the correctness of their answers, but the original comment was
“There is not one legitimate economist that will state that raising the minimum wage will cost even 1 job.”

That is all I was commenting on. If the comment was something like “most economists think there won’t be any measurable effect to the job market” I would have gone right past it without even questioning it as that’s pretty much my opinion too.

“noticeably harder for low-skilled workers to find employment” is not the same as “costing even 1 job”. the first statement is about finding new jobs, the second is about losing jobs

in any case, “if all the economists in the world were laid end-to-end, they still wouldn’t reach a conclusion”

not to mention, “if all the students at vassar were laid end-to-end, i wouldn’t be a bit surprised”

244 Romantic Heretic  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 2:04:12pm

re: #165 dog philosopher

hmm i can’t say i understand what “far right on money” means in this context

lower taxes and balance the budget? if so, what gets cut?

Usually it means “Get rid of the Fed! No more fiat currency! Goooooooold!”

245 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 2:04:25pm

re: #232 Testy Toad T

And really, from what I’ve read and the photos I’ve seen, the two inches of snow (or whatever the amount was) wasn’t the major factor.
It was that there was ICE on the roads, substantially enough ice to cause problems under usual traffic conditions but then to tell everybody GO HOME NOW! GO GET YOUR KIDS FROM SCHOOL! and whatever other hysteria-mongering was happening…
Well, all of a sudden it seems as if just about anyone in the Atlanta metro area with a vehicle jumped into said vehicles and completely overwhelmed the traffic routes.
Best thing would have been to tell people to just sit tight, let the road crews do their thing. And most of all, just be honest about what is happening.

246 ObserverArt  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 2:05:12pm

re: #241 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave of the waffle light)

Especially if you get the government and/or the military involved in it. But Congress passes bills that make it difficult for the military to use anything but traditional energy sources.

Does it ever seem like the government helps protects current technology and keeps new technology tied up? Then, when the old technology faces a phase out, suddenly the old companies introduce the new!

Am I being cynical??? ///

247 Lidane  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 2:07:22pm

re: #245 Backwoods_Sleuth

And really, from what I’ve read and the photos I’ve seen, the two inches of snow (or whatever the amount was) wasn’t the major factor.
It was that there was ICE on the roads, substantially enough ice to cause problems under usually traffic conditions but then to tell everybody GO HOME NOW! GO GET YOUR KIDS FROM SCHOOL! and whatever other hysteria-mongering was happening…
Well, all of a sudden it seems as if just about anyone in the Atlanta metro area with a vehicle jumped into said vehicles and completely overwhelmed the traffic routes.
Best thing would have been to tell people to just sit tight, let the road crews do their thing. And most of all, just be honest about what is happening.

Ice on the roads in a region that damn near never sees snow or ice, so they don’t have the roads pre-treated as a matter of course and no one who drives there has any idea how to drive in those conditions. Add in the GET YER KIDS AND GO HOME element on the news and disaster was inevitable.

248 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave of the waffle light)  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 2:08:40pm

re: #246 ObserverArt

Does it ever seem like the government helps protects current technology and keeps new technology tied up? Then, when the old technology faces a phase out, suddenly the old companies introduce the new!

What is the major task of the US military if not to protect access to overseas energy resources that our nation depends on?

249 dog philosopher  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 2:08:45pm

re: #240 klys

You want the science definition of a theory while the rest of the world uses it to mean hypothesis proof.

We are unfortunately fighting a losing battle there, I think.

fyt

250 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 2:08:54pm

We knew this was coming…

In an interview with CNN’s Anderson Cooper, Erick Muñoz acknowledged that he has been receiving medical bills at his home — although he’s not sure exactly what he will be expected to pay.

“They have not come to me and said how that’s going to work,” he told CNN. “But I believe I’ve heard several media outlets…saying that they’ve asked about that. They have asked that question. They said they would continue normal billing.”

After ThinkProgress reached out to the John Peter Smith Hospital, a spokesperson explained that billing is part of Muñoz’s medical records, and is therefore covered under privacy laws. The hospital noted that although Eric Muñoz may say whatever he wants on the matter, its officials are not allowed to disclose details about billing unless he agrees to release his deceased wife’s medical records.

Brain-Dead Texas Woman’s Family May Have To Pay For The Cost Of Keeping Her On Life Support

251 klys  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 2:09:24pm

re: #249 dog philosopher

fyt

I wish.

But see the pushback applied to the “theory of evolution.”

252 Lidane  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 2:10:14pm

re: #250 Backwoods_Sleuth

We knew this was coming…

Brain-Dead Texas Woman’s Family May Have To Pay For The Cost Of Keeping Her On Life Support

Fuck that. He doesn’t owe them a goddamn thing. They FORCED him and his family to put her on life support after she was dead.

I hope he tells them to burn in Hell.

253 Romantic Heretic  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 2:11:22pm

re: #209 EPR-radar

If it is true that 30+ increases in the minimum wage have never had an observable effect on unemployment, these economists are practicing theology rather than anything that has to do with historical evidence.

Well, economists are the priests of the West’s ruling faith.

254 Justanotherhuman  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 2:11:22pm

re: #245 Backwoods_Sleuth

And really, from what I’ve read and the photos I’ve seen, the two inches of snow (or whatever the amount was) wasn’t the major factor.
It was that there was ICE on the roads, substantially enough ice to cause problems under usually traffic conditions but then to tell everybody GO HOME NOW! GO GET YOUR KIDS FROM SCHOOL! and whatever other hysteria-mongering was happening…
Well, all of a sudden it seems as if just about anyone in the Atlanta metro area with a vehicle jumped into said vehicles and completely overwhelmed the traffic routes.
Best thing would have been to tell people to just sit tight, let the road crews do their thing. And most of all, just be honest about what is happening.

What happened here was that a layer of ice went down on the roads first (it was in the teens) and the fine snow got packed down on it as people drove, making the road actually slicker. My neighbor works at Dillard’s dept store and was made to stay on her shift until 6 pm and said by that time, the roads were treacherous—took her 10 times as long to traverse I-85 and she felt lucky at that. She was highly pissed that the dept mgrs left before anyone did, and those who closed the store were expected to stay. I’ve never worked anywhere that happened. Luckily, she was off Wed & Thurs or they would have expected her at work. Yeah, like everyone was going shopping in that shit.

My son said Charlotte had over 500 accidents and the main roads there were brined, salted and plowed.

255 Lidane  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 2:11:24pm

I’m sure Teh GG will have something to say about this:

256 dog philosopher  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 2:11:54pm

re: #251 klys

I wish.

But see the pushback applied to the “theory of evolution.”

imho evolution is a fact - the theory is a theory about how it operates

creationists deny the fact of biological evolution, but believe in the theory except that they mutate it into social darwinism

257 TedStriker  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 2:12:20pm

re: #250 Backwoods_Sleuth

We knew this was coming…

Brain-Dead Texas Woman’s Family May Have To Pay For The Cost Of Keeping Her On Life Support

If he hasn’t lawyered up against the hospital already for this, he needs to; it’s insult to a grievous injury (that the hospital perpetuated for weeks).

258 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 2:15:16pm

MSNBC president apologizes to RNC, fires staffer responsible for tweet
They fired the guy. It seems odd that MSNBC’s business model is demonizing republicans and they keep firing their own staff for demonizing Republicans but I guess it generates a lot of publicity and their audience seems to like it.

259 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave of the waffle light)  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 2:16:12pm

re: #256 dog philosopher

I remember learnin in 6th grade science class how one starts with a hypothesis and then sets up experiments to prove or disprove it…if they are successful, you have a theory.

This sort of basic knowledge of how science works, what it applies to and what it does not (namely anything that cannot be tested objectively) is fading from our collective consciousness and is the reason that we still have people who not only deny evolution but insist that Creationism is science.

260 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 2:16:14pm

re: #246 ObserverArt

Does it ever seem like the government helps protects current technology and keeps new technology tied up? Then, when the old technology faces a phase out, suddenly the old companies introduce the new!

Am I being cynical??? ///

Doesn’t always work like that. Congress and the US government did a real job on the railroads in the early-to-mid 20th century. Subsidized the development of truck and automobile use as well as highways. Plus a structure in place to control what railroads could charge for freight rates.

ICC was the key control there. Put in place to help protect against abuse, but it also eventually started handcuffing the railroads for reacting to new competition.

The ICC soon grew to have authority over almost every aspect of railroading, ranging from locomotive boilers and passenger accounting to the diameter of grab irons and speed limits. The railroads reached their peak in extent and influence by 1915, about the time the ICC was hitting its stride. Ironically, just as railroads began to suffer from highway and waterway competition, the ICC set out to protect the public from the railroads.

From:
en.wikipedia.org

261 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 2:16:35pm

So, now that I’ve calmed down, I had _so_ much fun today.

Seems the state health insurance that my son is on refused the prior authorization for his primary med ($800+ a month) because after Jan 1, they no longer cover it. Of course it’s the only one of it’s kind that doesn’t make his symptoms worse.

After I found this out at the pharmacy, I was told by the pharmacist of two programs run by the pharmaceutical company - one is a discount card that gets you one month free and then a $150 deductible. But you can sign up over the phone and have it done in an hour. The other will get you into a foundation’s grant system and get you the med for free all the time but takes a good month to apply.

So after a short while (~ an hour) on the phone, I find that my son doesn’t qualify for the discount program because his state insurance is partially federally funded. (head meet desk. Repeat.) However, my ACA mandated insurance is private so _I_ qualify and can list my son as my dependent. So we do that and I scurry back to the pharmacy and get my month’s supply of major meds for my son without an impossible to pay bill.

Tomorrow I get to go to the next city over to his doctor’s office to fill out the forms and get them sent it. Oh. Joy. But at least a mechanism exists.

Meanwhile I remember dealing with then legislator and county executive Scott Walker while working for State Elections Board. He was a corrupt little twerp then and I have no doubt he’d get a great deal of joy at screwing up a 12 year old’s medical situation over a fantasy of saving money. Foo on him and the rest of the hypocritical SOB’s ruining WIsconsin.

262 allegro  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 2:18:22pm

re: #245 Backwoods_Sleuth

And really, from what I’ve read and the photos I’ve seen, the two inches of snow (or whatever the amount was) wasn’t the major factor.
It was that there was ICE on the roads, substantially enough ice to cause problems under usual traffic conditions but then to tell everybody GO HOME NOW! GO GET YOUR KIDS FROM SCHOOL! and whatever other hysteria-mongering was happening…
Well, all of a sudden it seems as if just about anyone in the Atlanta metro area with a vehicle jumped into said vehicles and completely overwhelmed the traffic routes.
Best thing would have been to tell people to just sit tight, let the road crews do their thing. And most of all, just be honest about what is happening.

Better yet do what the city of Houston did: shut down all but essential services and tell everyone to stay home if they possibly can. We did and the day passed with few issues.

263 Justanotherhuman  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 2:19:56pm

re: #252 Lidane

Fuck that. He doesn’t owe them a goddamn thing. They FORCED him and his family to put her on life support after she was dead.

I hope he tells them to burn in Hell.

The State should pick it up and any insurance that’s paid should be subrogated to them.

It wasn’t actually the hospital, it was state law that forced the hospital to act that way, as far as I can read it.

Munoz shouldn’t have to pay a dime over the initial diagnosis of brain death. In fact, the hospital should forgive him for the entire thing.

I wouldn’t pay it, not one dime. Somebody else can eat it.

264 A Mom Anon  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 2:21:04pm

re: #254 Justanotherhuman

Something getting lost in this discussion is our elected morons down here trying to do everything on the cheap. Doesn’t matter what it is, all they promise is low or no taxes. How you can effectively prepare for emergencies with no revenue? It costs money to keep any city/metro area running effectively. And the very voters having a complete conniption over this mess are the exact same people who refuse to vote for any kind of taxes to help cover the cost of this stuff and want “smaller government”. We’ve had vote after vote for taxes to prepare for weather emergencies, light rail to help alleviate the traffic clusterfuck here, and on and on and people repeatedly vote those measures down. And the so called leaders here are to cowardly to stand up and say we have to have money to do all this stuff. Also too, our governor in GA, Nathan Deal is a corrupt douchehammer who could give a shit as long as it’s not him that’s stuck on the highways. And you can apply this to anything, from parks and roads to schools. You get what you pay for, if you don’t pay for it, don’t be shocked that it’s not there when you need it.

265 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 2:23:39pm

re: #264 A Mom Anon

Something getting lost in this discussion is our elected morons down here trying to do everything on the cheap. Doesn’t matter what it is, all they promise is low or no taxes. How you can effectively prepare for emergencies with no revenue? It costs money to keep any city/metro area running effectively. And the very voters having a complete conniption over this mess are the exact same people who refuse to vote for any kind of taxes to help cover the cost of this stuff and want “smaller government”. We’ve had vote after vote for taxes to prepare for weather emergencies, light rail to help alleviate the traffic clusterfuck here, and on and on and people repeatedly vote those measures down. And the so called leaders here are to cowardly to stand up and say we have to have money to do all this stuff. Also too, our governor in GA, Nathan Deal is a corrupt douchehammer who could give a shit as long as it’s not him that’s stuck on the highways. And you can apply this to anything, from parks and roads to schools. You get what you pay for, if you don’t pay for it, don’t be shocked that it’s not there when you need it.

Same trap as not wanting to fund your school systems and then wondering why companies don’t want to locate there - partially due to the local area not having well rated schools and any reputation about having an educated workforce on hand to tap.

266 ObserverArt  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 2:23:55pm

re: #260 Feline Fearless Leader

Doesn’t always work like that. Congress and the US government did a real job on the railroads in the early-to-mid 20th century. Subsidized the development of truck and automobile use as well as highways. Plus a structure in place to control what railroads could charge for freight rates.

ICC was the key control there. Put in place to help protect against abuse, but it also eventually started handcuffing the railroads for reacting to new competition.

From:
en.wikipedia.org

Oh I know it, and you are right. But here is a question for us all to ponder. Would America in today’s political environ be able to do a coast-to-coast rail and/or highway system? That was a part of my cynicism. I never intended to mean we can’t do it. But, will we? Different times.

And by all means I hope I am wrong. I’d love to see the US get back in the ‘let’s kick some major ass in infrastructure and technology” mode again. Our past says we can do it.

267 EPR-radar  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 2:24:11pm

re: #264 A Mom Anon

Something getting lost in this discussion is our elected morons down here trying to do everything on the cheap. Doesn’t matter what it is, all they promise is low or no taxes. How you can effectively prepare for emergencies with no revenue? It costs money to keep any city/metro area running effectively. And the very voters having a complete conniption over this mess are the exact same people who refuse to vote for any kind of taxes to help cover the cost of this stuff and want “smaller government”. We’ve had vote after vote for taxes to prepare for weather emergencies, light rail to help alleviate the traffic clusterfuck here, and on and on and people repeatedly vote those measures down. And the so called leaders here are to cowardly to stand up and say we have to have money to do all this stuff. Also too, our governor in GA, Nathan Deal is a corrupt douchehammer who could give a shit as long as it’s not him that’s stuck on the highways. And you can apply this to anything, from parks and roads to schools. You get what you pay for, if you don’t pay for it, don’t be shocked that it’s not there when you need it.

Unpossible!! Lower taxes and less government is always the answer, especially when I want my public services!!!

268 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 2:24:21pm

re: #262 allegro

Better yet do what the city of Houston did: shut down all but essential services and tell everyone to stay home if they possibly can. We did and the day passed with few issues.

Exactly!

269 Testy Toad T  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 2:25:41pm

re: #262 allegro

Better yet do what the city of Houston did: shut down all but essential services and tell everyone to stay home if they possibly can. We did and the day passed with few issues.

Ex-fucking-actly.

I bet Winnipeg couldn’t conduct business as usual with a 120F 49C heat wave either. I hope they’d be intelligent enough not to try.

270 Lidane  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 2:25:47pm

An internet kitty has gone to Ceiling Cat:

271 Justanotherhuman  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 2:25:59pm

re: #266 ObserverArt

Oh I know it, and you are right. But here is a question for us all to ponder. Would America in today’s political environ be able to do a coast-to-coast rail and/or highway system? That was a part of my cynicism. I never intended to mean we can’t do it. But, will we? Different times.

And by all means I hope I am wrong. I’d love to see the US get back in the ‘let’s kick some major ass in infrastructure and technology” mode again. Our past says we can do it.

We won’t be able to do it with the current Republicans around.

272 Gus  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 2:26:02pm
273 EPR-radar  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 2:27:17pm

re: #252 Lidane

Fuck that. He doesn’t owe them a goddamn thing. They FORCED him and his family to put her on life support after she was dead.

I hope he tells them to burn in Hell.

The job I want most in this world at this instant is the job of writing a letter to this hospital from the Munoz family telling the hospital precisely where they can stick their invoices for the forced treatment.

274 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 2:28:00pm

re: #272 Gus

[Embedded content]

Awww… I loved Colonel Meow.

275 ObserverArt  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 2:28:05pm

re: #271 Justanotherhuman

We won’t be able to do it with the current Republicans around.

Got that right. The monied have access to private jets that pass “fly over” country quite well. Who needs things like cars and trains. Pffft!

///

276 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 2:28:49pm

re: #275 ObserverArt

Got that right. The monied have access to private jets that pass “fly over” country quite well. Who needs things like cars and trains. Pffft!

///

Or like Christie’s helicopter…

277 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 2:29:48pm

Another OT…

278 ObserverArt  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 2:30:08pm

re: #276 Backwoods_Sleuth

Or like Christie’s helicopter…

See. With money and/or connections you can do anything!

///

279 wrenchwench  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 2:31:10pm

It’s a trap!

280 Gus  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 2:32:08pm
281 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave of the waffle light)  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 2:32:34pm

re: #266 ObserverArt

And by all means I hope I am wrong. I’d love to see the US get back in the ‘let’s kick some major ass in infrastructure and technology” mode again. Our past says we can do it.

Not as long as Conservative Principles stand in the way.

282 RadicalModerate  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 2:34:20pm

re: #229 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

I mean, I really don’t know where that staffer might have gotten the idea that rightwingers would be against the Cheerios commercial from.

Nearly Half Of Mississippi Republicans Think Interracial Marriage Should Be Illegal

Oh yeah. The Republican base.

283 Dr Lizardo  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 2:34:22pm

re: #234 EPR-radar

What a craven dog this MSNBC president is. He gets the really big bucks for wetting himself in panic when a GOP hack gets the vapors.

My apology to Priebus can be seen here:

Youtube Video

284 ObserverArt  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 2:35:19pm

re: #281 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave of the waffle light)

Not as long as Conservative Principles stand in the way.

Are you hinting conservative principles is an oxymoron?!?!

285 ObserverArt  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 2:36:28pm

re: #282 RadicalModerate

I mean, I really don’t know where that staffer might have gotten the idea that rightwingers would be against the Cheerios commercial from.

Nearly Half Of Mississippi Republicans Think Interracial Marriage Should Be Illegal

Oh yeah. The Republican base.

Those 50% better write apologies to RNC PR BS pronto!

286 klys  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 2:36:30pm

re: #284 ObserverArt

Are you hinting conservative principles is an oxymoron?!?!

I know a lot of people who say they have conservative principles who are morons, does that count?

287 Justanotherhuman  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 2:36:51pm

What does “journalist” Glenn Greenwald say about this? Crickets?

20 Al Jazeera Journalists Face Charges in Egypt

nytimes.com

He has to drumbeat this kind of crap instead and blow their horns.

288 Lidane  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 2:38:08pm

re: #277 Backwoods_Sleuth

And the RWNJs long for that here. They want to be able to enact Second Amendment solutions to stop gays in their tracks.

289 thedopefishlives  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 2:38:32pm

Evening Lizardim from the snowy and cold wild north country. Just a quick drive-by posting to let everyone know that I survived the Snowpocalypse of the North, which we just call “Thursday” up here in these parts. How are things going among the lizardfolk?

290 Kragar  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 2:38:40pm

re: #250 Backwoods_Sleuth

We knew this was coming…

Brain-Dead Texas Woman’s Family May Have To Pay For The Cost Of Keeping Her On Life Support

Fuck that. Don’t pay them a dime from the point he told them to cut the life support.

291 Varek Raith  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 2:38:59pm
Maybe the rightwing will hate it, but everyone else will go aww: the adorable new #Cheerios ad w/ biracial family.

Uh, that was a completely true statement there RNC.
You guys did freakout about the first one.
Remember?
Didn’t think so.

292 EPR-radar  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 2:39:14pm

re: #283 Dr Lizardo

My apology to Priebus can be seen here:

[Embedded content]

What a missed opportunity. IMO, MSNBC should have responded with a hard hitting news story to make the point that the “right wing” really does disapprove of the Cheerios ad, and closed the reporting off by simply noting that the RNC chair jumps as though he’d been goosed in the ass by criticism of the “right wing”.

293 piratedan  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 2:40:28pm

re: #258 Killgore Trout

MSNBC president apologizes to RNC, fires staffer responsible for tweet
They fired the guy. It seems odd that MSNBC’s business model is demonizing republicans and they keep firing their own staff for demonizing Republicans but I guess it generates a lot of publicity and their audience seems to like it.

wow, who coulddanode that after all this time that Phil Griffin, Joe Scarborough, Chuck Todd and David Gregory were closet liberals…. guess you learn something everyday whilst demonizing Republicans for doing the heinous evil shit that they pass off as legislation, thanks KT! ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

294 ObserverArt  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 2:40:52pm

re: #286 klys

I know a lot of people who say they have conservative principles who are morons, does that count?

We are on the same page. I was going to type an additional sentence, something like: I know they can be moronic.

Fun with words!

295 Dr Lizardo  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 2:41:12pm

re: #282 RadicalModerate

I mean, I really don’t know where that staffer might have gotten the idea that rightwingers would be against the Cheerios commercial from.

Nearly Half Of Mississippi Republicans Think Interracial Marriage Should Be Illegal

Oh yeah. The Republican base.

Dr. Lizardo begs to differ. Clearly, the Mississippi Republican base is not only racist, but blind as well.

Image: fea629a71fee31375a71054b839f526a.jpg

I rest my case.

296 Gus  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 2:41:18pm

Crap. Fucking winter. Cold for the next week.

297 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 2:41:41pm

re: #288 Lidane

And the RWNJs long for that here. They want to be able to enact Second Amendment solutions to stop gays in their tracks.

And GG will be conspicuously silent…

298 Dr Lizardo  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 2:43:10pm

re: #292 EPR-radar

What a missed opportunity. IMO, MSNBC should have responded with a hard hitting news story to make the point that the “right wing” really does disapprove of the Cheerios ad, and closed the reporting off by simply noting that the RNC chair jumps as though he’d been goosed in the ass by criticism of the “right wing”.

Exactly. That’s the way it should have been handled.

299 Lidane  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 2:43:14pm

re: #297 Backwoods_Sleuth

And GG will be conspicuously silent…

Pfft. They’re only shooting at gays. It’s not like they’re the NSA snooping on people, or Obama and his DRONEZ going after Snowden.

///////

300 ObserverArt  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 2:43:24pm

I wonder. I’m not sure of Greenwald’s age, but I am guessing he never got around to reading Mad Magazine as a kid. He seems to have missed the Spy vs. Spy comics.

301 klys  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 2:43:34pm

re: #289 thedopefishlives

Evening Lizardim from the snowy and cold wild north country. Just a quick drive-by posting to let everyone know that I survived the Snowpocalypse of the North, which we just call “Thursday” up here in these parts. How are things going among the lizardfolk?

I am making progress.

302 Varek Raith  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 2:44:44pm

re: #258 Killgore Trout

The rightwing did freakout about the ad.
They bring the demonization down on themselves.

303 thedopefishlives  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 2:44:57pm

re: #296 Gus

Crap. Fucking winter. Cold for the next week.

My dad said a storm may be headed his way that weather forecasters have nervously compared to something called the “Blizzard of ‘78”. He sounded pissed.

304 Dr Lizardo  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 2:45:18pm

re: #302 Varek Raith

The rightwing did freakout about the ad.
They bring the demonization down on themselves.

Well you know what they say, “Denial ain’t just a river in Egypt.”

305 ObserverArt  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 2:47:03pm

re: #296 Gus

Crap. Fucking winter. Cold for the next week.

We could see if we could run some string between two cans…one from your location to Hoosier Hoops in Wisconsin. You two could chatter your teeth at each other.

Hey, I’m trying to help you laugh. It raises body temp about .01%.

But I know what you mean…we’ve had some damn cold weather here in Ohio this year. Today we got up to 30° and it felt like summer!

306 EPR-radar  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 2:47:47pm

re: #303 thedopefishlives

My dad said a storm may be headed his way that weather forecasters have nervously compared to something called the “Blizzard of ‘78”. He sounded pissed.

There were two great US blizzards in 1978. I was in NJ for the one that hit there, and I still remember it. Hopefully nothing so extreme happens this time around.

307 klys  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 2:48:12pm

I’m supposed to fly into Denver tomorrow night.

308 iossarian  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 2:48:16pm

re: #303 thedopefishlives

My dad said a storm may be headed his way that weather forecasters have nervously compared to something called the “Blizzard of ‘78”. He sounded pissed.

Is this happening on Saturday? I’m meant to be driving but that might have to be rethought.

309 Gus  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 2:48:42pm

re: #303 thedopefishlives

My dad said a storm may be headed his way that weather forecasters have nervously compared to something called the “Blizzard of ‘78”. He sounded pissed.

Thought it was just going to snow and warm up again. Made the mistake of looking at the forecast. Not tragically cold but cold enough to ruin my life for a week. Good times. Why the hell am I here? Denver that is.

310 Justanotherhuman  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 2:48:43pm

re: #304 Dr Lizardo

Well you know what they say, “Denial ain’t just a river in Egypt.”

And they can crimea river, too.

311 Varek Raith  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 2:49:09pm

re: #307 klys

I’m supposed to fly into Denver tomorrow night.

Gus will save you!

312 Gus  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 2:50:20pm

re: #311 Varek Raith

Gus will save you!

:P

//

313 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 2:50:23pm

re: #252 Lidane

Fuck that. He doesn’t owe them a goddamn thing. They FORCED him and his family to put her on life support after she was dead.

I hope he tells them to burn in Hell.

I hope he tells his lawyer (whom I further hope is a weird composite of Tom Hagen, Saul Goodman, and Darth Vader) to write them a letter explaining how they intend to pursue a binding judgment of “Burn in Hell” in whatever court has jurisdiction over it.

314 thedopefishlives  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 2:51:11pm

re: #308 iossarian

Is this happening on Saturday? I’m meant to be driving but that might have to be rethought.

He said sometime next week or next weekend. There’s supposed to be some snow headed to fish country this weekend, basically the leftovers from what just hit here. Not a whole lot.

315 thedopefishlives  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 2:52:19pm

re: #309 Gus

Thought it was just going to snow and warm up again. Made the mistake of looking at the forecast. Not tragically cold but cold enough to ruin my life for a week. Good times. Why the hell am I here? Denver that is.

Good question. Probably because Denver is lizard central.

///

316 RadicalModerate  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 2:53:11pm

re: #295 Dr Lizardo

Dr. Lizardo begs to differ. Clearly, the Mississippi Republican base is not only racist, but blind as well.

Image: fea629a71fee31375a71054b839f526a.jpg

I rest my case.

Just a reminder about what they thought of her latest work:

rightwingwatch.org

317 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 2:55:42pm

re: #303 thedopefishlives

My dad said a storm may be headed his way that weather forecasters have nervously compared to something called the “Blizzard of ‘78”. He sounded pissed.

Crap, I remember the Blizzard of ‘78. I made the young and immortal decision to drive from Cincinnati to Ann Arbor and ended up spending several days in the Ohio National Guard Armory in Lima.
It actually turned out to be a really good weekend. I’m an amateur radio operator, so they put me in charge of the radio room for dispatching duty. My younger sister was put in charge of mess hall. Our friend (who was our driver) and some stranded truckers, who also took refuge at the Armory, went out with the NG to rescue people on I-75, and also check on semi-trucks and their cargo.
The day we left, we were all informally made members of the Ohio National Guard.
I still have my shoulder patch and pin.
Best storm disaster ever for me.

318 iossarian  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 2:56:41pm

re: #317 Backwoods_Sleuth

That is, in fact, a cool story.

319 thedopefishlives  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 2:57:27pm

re: #317 Backwoods_Sleuth

Crap, I remember the Blizzard of 𠆇8. I made the young and immortal decision to drive from Cincinnati to Ann Arbor and ended up spending several days in the Ohio National Guard Armory in Lima.
It actually turned out to be a really good weekend. I’m an amateur radio operator, so they put me in charge of the radio room for dispatching duty. My younger sister was put in charge of mess hall. Our friend (who was our driver) and some stranded truckers, who also took refuge at the Armory, went out with the NG to rescue people on I-75, and also check on semi-trucks and their cargo.
The day we left, we were all informally made members of the Ohio National Guard.
I still have my shoulder patch and pin.
Best storm disaster ever for me.

That is epic. I think we’re done here.

320 Gus  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 2:58:46pm
321 Romantic Heretic  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 2:59:44pm

re: #316 RadicalModerate

Just a reminder about what they thought of her latest work:

rightwingwatch.org

Gag!

322 thedopefishlives  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 3:00:00pm

And with that, I am off again, flitting away. Ugh, I shouldn’t use that word, “flitting” - it reminds me of spring. Later lizards.

323 Bridgeghazi: Never Forget!!11!!!!11  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 3:00:29pm

re: #258 Killgore Trout

I Kind of agree. You are wasting your time trying to demonize the current right wing. All you have to do is sit back and wait for one of them to open their mouth. So easy.

324 EPR-radar  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 3:00:51pm

re: #321 Romantic Heretic

Gag!

Indeed. Few things are as revolting as apologists for US slavery.

325 Gus  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 3:01:23pm
326 ObserverArt  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 3:01:34pm

re: #317 Backwoods_Sleuth

Crap, I remember the Blizzard of ‘78. I made the young and immortal decision to drive from Cincinnati to Ann Arbor and ended up spending several days in the Ohio National Guard Armory in Lima.
It actually turned out to be a really good weekend. I’m an amateur radio operator, so they put me in charge of the radio room for dispatching duty. My younger sister was put in charge of mess hall. Our friend (who was our driver) and some stranded truckers, who also took refuge at the Armory, went out with the NG to rescue people on I-75, and also check on semi-trucks and their cargo.
The day we left, we were all informally made members of the Ohio National Guard.
I still have my shoulder patch and pin.
Best storm disaster ever for me.

You got caught in that one? That was a huge event in Ohio.

I remember up in Mansfield Ohio where my brothers still reside, A trucker was missing and they found his rig out in a field trapped under a huge drift off of Rt 13 north of town. He couldn’t see the road and drove right off straight on a big old gentle curve. They knew he was somewhere alive because he used his CB radio. It took them almost two days to find the dang truck under the drift. Luckily he had some small snacks and reached out and grabbed some snow for water.

I was in Columbus just out of college. The city was shut down for days in that one.

327 Varek Raith  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 3:02:32pm

re: #325 Gus

[Embedded content]

He’s using the wrong tool for the job.

Flamethrowers.
Yep.

328 Gus  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 3:04:41pm

329 A Mom Anon  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 3:18:48pm

re: #326 ObserverArt

I was in school up in Gahanna when that happened, what a mess.

330 Justanotherhuman  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 3:25:39pm

re: #327 Varek Raith

He’s using the wrong tool for the job.

Flamethrowers.
Yep.

Nothing like nasty blackened snow piled up at the curb, is there?

331 makeitstop  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 3:29:36pm

re: #326 ObserverArt

You got caught in that one? That was a huge event in Ohio.

I remember up in Mansfield Ohio where my brothers still reside, A trucker was missing and they found his rig out in a field trapped under a huge drift off of Rt 13 north of town. He couldn’t see the road and drove right off straight on a big old gentle curve. They knew he was somewhere alive because he used his CB radio. It took them almost two days to find the dang truck under the drift. Luckily he had some small snacks and reached out and grabbed some snow for water.

I was in Columbus just out of college. The city was shut down for days in that one.

That blizzard happened on the first day I moved to New York. I had just moved to Flushing, Queens.

The next day, my band had a gig booked in Smithtown, Long Island. Our car and equipment truck were practically the only vehicles on the Long Island Expressway. We made the gig, but when we went to play, the crowd had stayed home.

332 BeenHereAwhile  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 3:47:22pm

re: #242 AlexRogan

It doesn’t mean that AL and GA shouldn’t at least have more stores of road salt and truck-mounted salt spreaders/brine tanks, like we do here in TN.

I have friends in the Birmingham area and a huge swath of my company’s customers across AL and GA that were stuck in this major clusterfuck over the past couple of days; despite GA Gov. Deal and Atlanta’s mayor trying to pin the blame on NOAA/NWS over their forecast, they (along with the AL authorities) dropped the ball big time.

I know that AL and GA doesn’t get snow like this very often, but there was absolutely no excuse for how this all went down.

Not familar with AL, but it’s been my experience that GA’s municipal and state public safety agencies don’t have plans in place for coordination between the various public safety agencies during emergency conditions.

This lack of coordination is exacerbated by the 60 or so different municipalities which comprise the metro Atlanta area.

Time for the governor to knock some heads together.

333 darthstar  Thu, Jan 30, 2014 3:51:22pm

re: #263 Justanotherhuman

The Terri Schiavo society or whatever the fuck they call themselves should be stuck with the bill. They fund-raised off that woman.

334 BusyMonster  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 10:12:41am

re: #13 Shiplord Kirel

Prince Rebus reminds me of a little boy who has adopted a skunk and wastes all his time trying to make it smell better. He also gets his feelings hurt when people avoid him or make rude remarks about the stench.

I like to think more of the boy who has mastered his armpit fart symphony and is outraged and hurt that we’re fucking tired of it already.

335 BusyMonster  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 10:19:02am

re: #324 EPR-radar

Indeed. Few things are as revolting as apologists for US slavery.

I always enjoy heavily emphasizing that owning slaves is inherently lazy. The kind of thing people who freeload like to do.


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