Former Port Authority Official Says Christie Knew About Lane Closings

Crumbling
US News • Views: 25,015

Very bad news for New Jersey Governor Chris Christie today, as former Port Authority official David Wildstein now says he has evidence Christie knew about the lane closings on the George Washington Bridge.

In a letter released by his lawyer, the official, David Wildstein, a high school friend of Mr. Christie’s who was appointed with the governor’s blessing at the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, which controls the bridge, described the order to close the lanes as “the Christie administration’s order” and said “evidence exists as well tying Mr. Christie to having knowledge of the lane closures, during the period when the lanes were closed, contrary to what the governor stated publicly in a two-hour press conference” three weeks ago.

UPDATE at 1/31/14 1:17:42 pm

Here’s the actual letter from Wildstein’s attorneys:

Jump to bottom

217 comments
1 Eclectic Cyborg  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 12:59:06pm

Obama witch hunt!!

2 Snarknado!  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 12:59:30pm

My surprise, I cannot express it.

/

3 darthstar  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 12:59:48pm

C’mon, Christie…let’s have another two hour presser. We gots some questions about your misrememberings we’d like you to further misremember about if you don’t mind.

4 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 1:00:23pm

Say whut?

5 Eclectic Cyborg  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 1:01:01pm

So would this be grounds for impeachment?

6 Targetpractice  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 1:01:20pm

Christie’s entire defense was “I didn’t know,” and now it’s about to come crumbling down. Even if he didn’t give the order, just knowing it was going on and doing nothing, sweeping the whole debacle under the rug, is gross negligence and grounds to have his ass run out of town on a rail.

7 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 1:02:25pm

Also, this isn’t good news for salad making, among other foodie activities.

California Water Officials Cut Delivery as State Drought Deepens

bloomberg.com

NC should open up some vegetable farms…

8 EPR-radar  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 1:02:26pm

re: #2 Snarknado!

My surprise, I cannot express it.

/

This actually is a bit of a surprise, in the sense that it seems we may end up with real evidence.

Usually these affairs don’t go nearly as far as they should because the principals take care of the designated fall guys.

It seems Christie is such as asshole that he can’t even be bothered to do that essential bit of personnel management.

9 iossarian  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 1:02:27pm

BENGHAZI

10 wrenchwench  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 1:02:35pm
11 Lidane  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 1:02:51pm
12 blueraven  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 1:03:18pm

re: #6 Targetpractice

Christie’s entire defense was “I didn’t know,” and now it’s about to come crumbling down. Even if he didn’t give the order, just knowing it was going on and doing nothing, sweeping the whole debacle under the rug, is gross negligence and grounds to have his ass run out of town on a rail.

And he lied about not knowing anything about the lane closures as they were happening.

13 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 1:03:38pm

re: #6 Targetpractice

Christie’s entire defense was “I didn’t know,” and now it’s about to come crumbling down. Even if he didn’t give the order, just knowing it was going on and doing nothing, sweeping the whole debacle under the rug, is gross negligence and grounds to have his ass run out of town on a rail.

He should have never claimed he barely knew Wildstein as a youth, eh?

Some people’s widdle egos just can’t take that kind of dissing.

14 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 1:03:56pm

This story just got its legs back.

15 iossarian  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 1:04:06pm

re: #12 blueraven

And he lied about not knowing anything about the lane closures as they were happening.

Yup. If the guy has the evidence he claims he does, that is an out-and-out untruth.

16 Targetpractice  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 1:04:51pm

re: #8 EPR-radar

This actually is a bit of a surprise, in the sense that it seems we may end up with real evidence.

Usually these affairs don’t go nearly as far as they should because the principals take care of the designated fall guys.

It seems Christie is such as asshole that he can’t even be bothered to do that essential bit of personnel management.

I think what was the tipping point here was the double whammy of federal investigators starting to sniff around the state followed by the Port Authority informing Wildstein that no, they would not be paying his legal bills. He’s looking at bankruptcy to launch a defense that likely won’t succeed, and so is now signaling a willingness to make a deal to roll on his boss.

17 darthstar  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 1:06:16pm
18 Lidane  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 1:08:06pm

Break out the siren GIFs —

19 darthstar  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 1:08:23pm

re: #14 Charles Johnson

This story just got its legs back.

Legs…this story just got a fuckin’ jet-pack.

20 Lidane  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 1:09:06pm
21 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 1:09:37pm

Another new thread?

OMGosh —and it is Friday!

I’m going to take my nap under 2 comforter and 3 dogs.

22 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 1:10:27pm
23 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 1:10:29pm

Does anyone think Chris Christie looks like Fred Flintstone?

Or is that an insult to Fred Flintstone?

Maybe I’m thinking of Jackie Gleason.

24 Kragar  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 1:10:42pm

re: #17 darthstar

[Embedded content]

1,2,3,4, FIF!

Youtube Video

25 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 1:11:03pm

re: #21 FemNaziBitch

Another new thread?

OMGosh —and it is Friday!

I’m going to take my nap under 2 comforter and 3 dogs.

So much for Friday news dump?

26 Targetpractice  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 1:11:28pm

Oh shit, it gets deeper, here’s the letter in question:

Basically Wildstein’s lawyer is accusing the Port Authority of hanging his client out to dry, stating that he was denied indemnity and legal coverage without a decent explanation while Baroni’s requests are “still under consideration,” and speculating aloud that the reason that Wildstein’s the fall guy is because members of the Port Authority are trying to hide their connections to land deals.

27 Bulworth  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 1:11:48pm

re: #15 iossarian

What evidence is he saying he has?

28 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 1:11:56pm

People like to talk about Chicago Politics.

I am always amused with NY/NJ politics.

Our politicians, at the least, end up in jail.

29 Bulworth  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 1:13:09pm

Meanwhile on the Twitters, Todd Kincannon is being a real gentleman horse’s as$.

30 wrenchwench  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 1:13:34pm

re: #22 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Fairy tails are vestigial. Most of us have evolved away from those.

31 darthstar  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 1:15:11pm
32 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 1:15:11pm

re: #25 Justanotherhuman

So much for Friday news dump?

I’m too disgusted with the world right now.

Heavily into a book binge, except that the current one I”m listening to is called the Unincorporated Man. Kinda pissing me off. A Dystopia about an Ayn Rand Wet Dream in which everyone is incorporated at birth —parents get 20%, government gets 5% and the individual must always own at least 25% of him/herself. Most people never earn a majority of themselves and end up being “pennies”. People’s who’s stock is “penny stock”.

In otherwords, the poor are still poor and the rich are still rich.

33 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 1:15:40pm

By the way - on the subject of the Koch brothers and Keystone XL… while it’s true that the Kochs will benefit from the pipeline, that’s because they’re invested in all kinds of industries that are connected to petroleum products. The fact that the Kochs will benefit is not, in itself, a good reason to oppose the project.

I’m pretty divided on it, myself. In many ways, this kind of project is an environmental disaster waiting to happen. But the economic benefits are also undeniable.

Glad I’m not the one who has to decide.

34 leftynyc  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 1:16:27pm

re: #17 darthstar

[Embedded content]

I’m picturing Howard Wollowitz doing an impression of Al Pacino. Is that what you were going for?

35 A Mom Anon  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 1:17:06pm

I am trying really hard not to laugh and laugh and laugh….tee to the motherfucking hee. So, has it been determined that Christie has broken the law?

OK, none of this is funny, this is bullshit and someone needs to be held accountable. If this goes without any accountability, then it’s going to happen again somewhere else. Hell, my suspicions are that this is the tip of the freaking iceberg with this guy’s administration.

36 jaunte  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 1:17:47pm

re: #33 Charles Johnson

an environmental disaster waiting to happen

For that reason, I’m opposed. There would be economic benefits, but not necessarily for the people who would be affected by the inevitable spills.

37 Lidane  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 1:18:14pm

Exclusive video from Christie HQ:

Youtube Video

38 leftynyc  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 1:19:16pm

re: #36 jaunte

For that reason, I’m opposed. There would be economic benefits, but not necessarily for the people who would be affected by the inevitable spills.

That’s the reason I’m against it. Like nuclear energy - it’s great when it works but you can’t afford even one accident.

39 darthstar  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 1:20:21pm

re: #34 leftynyc

I’m picturing Howard Wollowitz doing an impression of Al Pacino. Is that what you were going for?

More Oprah giving out gifts to everyone in her audience.

Image: qrLEV.gif

40 Kragar  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 1:21:21pm

re: #37 Lidane

Exclusive video from Christie HQ:

[Embedded content]

Youtube Video

41 darthstar  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 1:22:11pm
42 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 1:23:40pm

re: #36 jaunte

For that reason, I’m opposed. There would be economic benefits, but not necessarily for the people who would be affected by the inevitable spills.

I’m leaning toward being against it, too. The risk of a gigantic spill seems too great to outweigh the benefits.

43 darthstar  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 1:25:22pm
44 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 1:25:26pm

Image: big.jpg

Anti-government protester gather next to a fire at a road block Kiev on January 31, 2014.

45 Lidane  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 1:25:50pm

re: #43 darthstar

46 iossarian  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 1:25:51pm

re: #27 Bulworth

What evidence is he saying he has?

It seems he’s just saying he has “evidence” without any specific details.

47 Political Atheist  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 1:26:30pm

re: #33 Charles Johnson

By the way - on the subject of the Koch brothers and Keystone XL… while it’s true that the Kochs will benefit from the pipeline, that’s because they’re invested in all kinds of industries that are connected to petroleum products. The fact that the Kochs will benefit is not, in itself, a good reason to oppose the project.

I’m pretty divided on it, myself. In many ways, this kind of project is an environmental disaster waiting to happen. But the economic benefits are also undeniable.

Glad I’m not the one who has to decide.

Just IMO, but the only way out of building that pipeline or something a lot like it was committing to alternative and nuclear energy quite some time ago. But the lack of perceived urgency and environmental concerns are holding those back even as oil does it global damage. Just look at the “Into Eternity” documentary for a glimpse.

if aliens came by to visit, could they stop laughing long enough to talk?
//

48 A Mom Anon  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 1:26:32pm

re: #33 Charles Johnson

I am not sure either, I thought the whole objection outside the obvious environmental concerns were that the jobs created were temporary and nowhere near the number that the proponents are saying will be created. And with our lax environmental inspections and laws, it’s going to end up being a mess at some point. I’ve seen photos of the mess the tar sand mining is leaving behind, it’s not fixable.

Large corporations have proven over and over they can’t be trusted, especially when no one’s looking, and they don’t give a damn about the damage they cause. The most they ever get is a slap on the wrist and some fines that amount to nothing to them. And it’s always poor people who get screwed over in these cases, half the time they aren’t even able to sue for damages.

49 palomino  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 1:27:11pm

re: #43 darthstar

[Embedded content]

I wonder how Christie is gonna be welcomed by the crowd when he’s introduced. Maybe the smart thing would be to have the PA announcer just skip that part of the opening ceremony.

50 Kragar  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 1:27:49pm
51 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 1:28:52pm

really going to nap now.

52 Dr Lizardo  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 1:29:40pm

re: #50 Kragar

[Embedded content]

That’s from the “No shit, Sherlock” file.

53 calochortus  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 1:30:08pm

re: #42 Charles Johnson

I’m leaning toward being against it, too. The risk of a gigantic spill seems too great to outweigh the benefits.

It also facilitates turning more of Alberta into a moonscape, which is indirect environmental damage.

54 piratedan  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 1:32:34pm

re: #33 Charles Johnson

By the way - on the subject of the Koch brothers and Keystone XL… while it’s true that the Kochs will benefit from the pipeline, that’s because they’re invested in all kinds of industries that are connected to petroleum products. The fact that the Kochs will benefit is not, in itself, a good reason to oppose the project.

I’m pretty divided on it, myself. In many ways, this kind of project is an environmental disaster waiting to happen. But the economic benefits are also undeniable.

Glad I’m not the one who has to decide.

from what I understand, most of the economic benefits go to the Canadiens and the oil company, because it’s being routed to a Free Trade Zone port, so it means that while you employ some construction guys, the oil is most likely being exported with very little benefit to the US domestic needs.

55 iossarian  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 1:32:55pm

re: #48 A Mom Anon

I feel the same way about it. I got into it with a fairly sane but economically right-wing guy over the weekend about a similar topic. I tried to explain to him that my problem isn’t with exploring new forms of energy, developing new food science (i.e., GMO), yada yada yada. It’s that if you go about it by deregulating private corporations to do the work and own the results, history shows pretty clearly that it’s “heads they win, tails they win”, and meanwhile everyone else gets screwed.

56 RadicalModerate  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 1:34:08pm

re: #40 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Soon to evolve to this scene:

Youtube Video

57 leftynyc  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 1:34:28pm

re: #50 Kragar

[Embedded content]

That dude asked the stupidest question of the day.

58 dog philosopher  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 1:34:53pm

so - jeb bush as the regular gop nominee in 2016, then

i wonder who the tea party will nominate?

59 Political Atheist  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 1:35:41pm

re: #36 jaunte

My dilemma-we must have the energy. Just can’t pretend “something will come up’ to solve that.
Has the Alaska pipeline been a big spill problem? IIRC the worst spill was when some asshole shot it. And what if we compare that risk to oil tankers? They crash, they sink etc.


Alaska pipe-

… It was designed to withstand powerful earthquakes, and did just that on Nov. 3, 2002, when a 7.9-magnitude earthquake centered about 50 miles west of the pipeline shook near Denali National Park.

The ground along the fault moved an estimated 18 feet horizontally and nearly 2.5 feet vertically. The quake was so strong that it opened cracks 6 feet wide in roads and rocked boats on lakes as far away as Louisiana.

Yet, the 48-inch diameter pipe did not rupture.

60 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 1:40:15pm

re: #59 Political Atheist

My dilemma-we must have the energy. Just can’t pretend “something will come up’ to solve that.
Has the Alaska pipeline been a big spill problem? IIRC the worst spill was when some asshole shot it. And what if we compare that risk to oil tankers? They crash, they sink etc.

Alaska pipe-

That doesn’t mean the next time won’t be disaster.

We like to marvel at our own ingenuity, but it’s Mother Nature who always wins in the end.

61 Targetpractice  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 1:40:57pm

re: #58 dog philosopher

so - jeb bush as the regular gop nominee in 2016, then

i wonder who the tea party will nominate?

Jeb who?

62 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 1:41:46pm

re: #61 Targetpractice

Jeb who?

“Just Plain Jeb” would be his best strategy.

63 piratedan  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 1:42:10pm

re: #59 Political Atheist

My dilemma-we must have the energy. Just can’t pretend “something will come up’ to solve that.
Has the Alaska pipeline been a big spill problem? IIRC the worst spill was when some asshole shot it. And what if we compare that risk to oil tankers? They crash, they sink etc.

Alaska pipe-

yeah, the pipeline is showing signs of wearing out because of two things, the harsh environment and the fact that once it was built, the company(ies) responsible of maintenance haven’t exactly been doing stellar work for a while now…

from 2006
finebergresearch.com

from 2011
propublica.org

Considering the stellar effort witnessed with the BP spill(s) in the Gulf, the complete lack of response to the pipeline bursts in North Dakota and Arkansas, do we really want to support this?

64 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 1:43:41pm

re: #59 Political Atheist

My dilemma-we must have the energy. Just can’t pretend “something will come up’ to solve that.
Has the Alaska pipeline been a big spill problem? IIRC the worst spill was when some asshole shot it. And what if we compare that risk to oil tankers? They crash, they sink etc.

Alaska pipe-

The XL will run through states that are at least 5.4 times as populous and land that is massively more productive for farming and ranching.

65 Political Atheist  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 1:43:57pm

re: #60 Justanotherhuman

To evaluate the risk, we must scale it against the alternatives to move that much oil right? The Alaska pipeline seems to be a success. Spills happened, and got cleaned up. Damage happened, and it got fixed. Maybe it would be fair to compare the site of a pipeline spill and the Exxon Valdez spill. Would trucks or ships be safer? that’s the data we need to look at this fairly.

66 Pie-onist Overlord  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 1:44:01pm

HURR HURR!!!1!!! TEH ELEKSHUN WAS STOLE!!!11!! CONFIRMED. FACT!!!!!!!

67 Lidane  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 1:44:32pm

Freepers haven’t decidedif this is a librul MSM plot to destroy a viable candidate, an MSM plot to make Christie sympathetic so he’ll be the next nominee, or a RINO getting what he deserves. Also, BENGHAZI!

This is big. Like RomneyCARE for Romney, this will
make him the “SHINE” … as the next GOP losing candidate.
—

One down……….. Mr Bush, please stand by
—

Fat boi is a bully. We all know that.
—

Ironically, the MSM will be the ones to come to his rescue so he doesn’t lose his status as the next Dole-McCain-Romney republican candidate they all love to have on the ballot.
—

this is what the media/nsa/democrat complex does…it destroys viable candidates time and again….
how many good candidates have there been where “something” just happens to happen or be discovered accidentally of course….

they’ll go after Rand or Cruz or Jeb or whoever next, to pave the way for their next god….

stop falling for this time and again people….
—

The truth doesn’t matter. Their strategy is to keep bringing the bridge thing up until the Republican party bigs drop Christie.

He is a threat to their entrenched power, and can win.
—

If you don’t think Romney started running last week, … well, you’re in good compny. Not even rush seems to be picking up on that. But Romney’s back in and just when anyone could sense Christie was out
Which was as soon as this story broke

Too bad he hugged The One.
—

Good! Now they can BBQ that bloated RINO over an open fire!

If they could only figure out a way to link Jeb Bush my day would be complete.
—

For once, a candidate whom I really did not want to suck the air out of everything is getting the Dem treatment and it’s fine with me.

He’s truly screwed if he did; this is construable as a felony, and if the Feds are involved, as they are, they may make a big fat meal out him.
—

Well its not like he refused to provide a US Ambassador with security and then refused to send help to prevent the murder of four Americans.

Neither is it like he was selling guns to drug traffickers directly resulting in the deaths of Americans and thousands of Mexicans.

Or using the IRS to persecute innocent Americans for their political beliefs.
—

Christie is a a jerk - a repugnicant version of the typical thug dim. He smooched Barrys butt to stick it to Romney. The state of NJ deserves him, and that is where he should stay. If he bounces his way to the GOP nomination it will be 8 years of swillary. I have serious doubts that we will ever be able to undo the damage done by barry. If she is elected, America, as we used to know it, is most certainly finished.

68 TedStriker  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 1:45:19pm

re: #29 Bulworth

Meanwhile on the Twitters, Todd Kincannon is being a real gentleman horse’s as$.

How is this new?

To paraphrase R. Lee Ermey in Full Metal Jacket, the best parts of Todd Kincannon ended up on the mattress.

69 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 1:45:41pm

re: #66 Pie-onist Overlord

HURR HURR!!!1!!! TEH ELEKSHUN WAS STOLE!!!11!! CONFIRMED. FACT!!!!!!!

Conservatives outnumber liberals in 47 states

By coincidence, cows outnumber liberals in the same states.

70 TedStriker  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 1:47:09pm

…

71 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 1:48:35pm

re: #59 Political Atheist

My dilemma-we must have the energy. Just can’t pretend “something will come up’ to solve that.

en.wikipedia.org

72 Bulworth  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 1:49:54pm

this is what the media/nsa/democrat complex does

Glad Dems are finally getting the NSA to do, um, something for the cause. //

73 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 1:50:19pm

re: #65 Political Atheist

To evaluate the risk, we must scale it against the alternatives to move that much oil right? The Alaska pipeline seems to be a success. Spills happened, and got cleaned up. Damage happened, and it got fixed. Maybe it would be fair to compare the site of a pipeline spill and the Exxon Valdez spill. Would trucks or ships be safer? that’s the data we need to look at this fairly.

No, stepping up our knowledge and production of alternative forms of energy would be best.

It’s time to retire oil, not encourage more plundering.

74 BongCrodny  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 1:51:52pm

re: #62 Decatur Deb

“Just Plain Jeb” would be his best strategy.

“Not-as-creepy-as-the-rest-of-my-party-Jeb.”

75 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 1:52:35pm

re: #64 goddamnedfrank

By the time it gets to Nebraska the XL pipeline will be running though America’s breadbasket, and land that is almost 20 times as population dense as the State of Alaska. It will also be carrying one of the worst, most awful grades of petroleum. Shit so nasty and viscous that it has to be artificially thinned with additional solvents before it will flow at all.

76 A Mom Anon  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 1:53:00pm

re: #66 Pie-onist Overlord

That whole thing is so misleading. So the real reason liberals win is because most moderates vote for Dems? So wouldn’t that make them more on the liberal side of things than not?

Better media please, FFS it’s 2014 we can do better than this.

77 Mattand  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 1:53:14pm

Just, wow. Assuming that Wildstein’s accusations are true, this is bad.

As a NJ resident, I’m just disgusted by this. All the bluster about “turning Trenton upside down” was just that: meaningless hot air.

What cracks me up is going to be the shock (SHOCK) from my fellow residents as they wonder how Christie could do something like this.

Yeah, a governor who posts videos of himself humiliating his constituents. Who’d have thunk he’d be capable of standing by while his cronies fuck over an entire town, for reasons that still aren’t clear.

Thanks for reinforcing every negative stereotype about New Jersey, asshole.

78 wrenchwench  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 1:54:15pm

re: #75 goddamnedfrank

By the time it gets to Nebraska the XL pipeline will be running though America’s breadbasket, and land that is almost 20 times as population dense as the State of Alaska. It will also be carrying one of the worst, most awful grades of petroleum. Shit so nasty and viscous that it has to be artificially thinned with additional solvents before it will flow at all.

There’s an aquifer under there too, right?

79 calochortus  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 1:54:42pm

re: #75 goddamnedfrank

By the time it gets to Nebraska the XL pipeline will be running though America’s breadbasket, and land that is almost 20 times as population dense as the State of Alaska. It will also be carrying one of the worst, most awful grades of petroleum. Shit so nasty and viscous that it has to be artificially thinned with additional solvents before it will flow at all.

And it still will cross the Ogalalla aquifer. A place I’d rather not see any of that stuff.

80 Political Atheist  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 1:54:52pm

re: #73 Justanotherhuman

No, stepping up our knowledge and production of alternative forms of energy would be best.

It’s time to retire oil, not encourage more plundering.

Too late. Alternative does not have the numbers, the capacity math and lead time for more. Not even if we wave a magic wand and sweep objections from the table.

re: #71 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce

Okay but how many are running, permitted, or even under construction? I’m a fan of alternatives. but not so much as to pretend there will not be a decade or two of transitionals at best to get there.

en.wikipedia.org

81 calochortus  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 1:55:06pm

re: #78 wrenchwench

There’s an aquifer under there too, right?

Beat me to it!

82 wrenchwench  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 1:56:01pm

re: #81 calochortus

Beat me to it!

I was thirsty.

83 Kragar  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 1:56:23pm

JOBS! JOBS! JOBS!

84 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 1:57:27pm

re: #78 wrenchwench

There’s an aquifer under there too, right?

Yep, but don’t worry, it only provides about 30% of the nations agricultural ground water. In any event we’ve depleted areas of it badly, so maybe it’s time to poison the rest.

85 Targetpractice  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 1:57:40pm

re: #77 Mattand

Just, wow. Assuming that Wildstein’s accusations are true, this is bad.

As a NJ resident, I’m just disgusted by this. All the bluster about “turning Trenton upside down” was just that: meaningless hot air.

What cracks me up is going to be the shock (SHOCK) from my fellow residents as they wonder how Christie could do something like this.

Yeah, a governor who posts videos of himself humiliating his constituents. Who’d have thunk he’d be capable of standing by while his cronies fuck over an entire town, for reasons that still aren’t clear.

Thanks for reinforcing every negative stereotype about New Jersey, asshole.

Considering all the talk that’s gone on in recent weeks about members of the Port Authority, as well as members of Christie’s inner circle, being connected to land deals in Fort Lee and Hoboken, I’m beginning to wonder if the initial assumptions of political payback might have been cover for something much more corrupt.

86 wrenchwench  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 1:58:14pm
87 calochortus  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 1:58:38pm

re: #84 goddamnedfrank

Yep, but don’t worry, it only provides about 30% of the nations agricultural ground water. In any event we’ve depleted areas of it badly, so maybe it’s time to poison the rest.

I always enjoy your positive outlook.

88 klys  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 1:59:31pm

What’s sad is when you look at the real numbers and realize that even exploiting the tar sands of Canada doesn’t really buy that much in the way of time, at the current rate of oil consumption (a rate which increases as more countries develop and desire the first-world lifestyle).

The interesting questions are things like: what’s going to happen as the oil reserves start to run out? Things like flying require a certain energy density to happen - otherwise the weight of the fuel required becomes prohibitive. Alternate energy sources could be found for things like home heating and electricity, but jet fuel is trickier.

Things to think on, anyway.

89 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 1:59:32pm

Yikes!

Sheriff: Remains in bags likely from 1 person

wnem.com

ST. CLAIR TOWNSHIP, Mich. (AP) -

“A sheriff says body parts found in garbage bags along the road in a Michigan are believed to be the remains of one person.

“St. Clair County Sheriff Tim Donnellon said in a statement Friday the remains found Thursday afternoon in garbage bags are believed to be from a white male. The bags were in St. Clair and China townships, about 50 miles northeast of Detroit.

(snip)

“Donnellon says authorities are seeking a middle-age white woman driving a late 1990s gray or tan sport utility vehicle. She was seen dumping what a caller thought was garbage from the vehicle.”

90 Aunty Entity Dragon  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 2:01:27pm

re: #7 Justanotherhuman

Also, this isn’t good news for salad making, among other foodie activities.

California Water Officials Cut Delivery as State Drought Deepens

bloomberg.com

NC should open up some vegetable farms…

We are too busy watching our GOP senate candidates argue who will be first to impeach the president and eliminate social security.

dish.andrewsullivan.com

91 Aunty Entity Dragon  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 2:02:36pm

re: #16 Targetpractice

I think what was the tipping point here was the double whammy of federal investigators starting to sniff around the state followed by the Port Authority informing Wildstein that no, they would not be paying his legal bills. He’s looking at bankruptcy to launch a defense that likely won’t succeed, and so is now signaling a willingness to make a deal to roll on his boss.

The feds were waiting for who would be the first to crack. I expect others to follow soon.

92 Mattand  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 2:02:43pm

re: #65 Political Atheist

To evaluate the risk, we must scale it against the alternatives to move that much oil right? The Alaska pipeline seems to be a success. Spills happened, and got cleaned up. Damage happened, and it got fixed. Maybe it would be fair to compare the site of a pipeline spill and the Exxon Valdez spill. Would trucks or ships be safer? that’s the data we need to look at this fairly.

The pipeline spill in Arkansas from last year pretty much turned the residential neighborhood it ran under into another Love Canal. There was one in Michigan from a few years back that’s still being cleaned up. Same goes for the BP Gulf of Mexico blow out as well.

When these things spill, it’s not like you can go in with a mop and be done in two weeks. Shit, I wouldn’t trust that any of the AK Pipeline spills you reference are actually 100% clean.

I’m not willing to risk “good enough” when it comes to running this shit right through the heart of America.

93 Targetpractice  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 2:04:15pm

re: #91 Aunty Entity Dragon

The feds were waiting for who would be the first to crack. I expect others to follow soon.

Wildstein’s apparently cracking because the Port Authority’s throwing him to the wolves.

94 dog philosopher  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 2:06:59pm

re: #67 Lidane

Freepers haven’t decidedif this is a librul MSM plot to destroy a viable candidate, an MSM plot to make Christie sympathetic so he’ll be the next nominee, or a RINO getting what he deserves. Also, BENGHAZI!

rush will announce their beliefs to them as soon as they have been formulated

95 iossarian  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 2:08:36pm

Have a great weekend all. Enjoy the great blizzard of 2014!

96 Bulworth  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 2:09:39pm

Still wondering when Bridget Kelley starts talking…

97 darthstar  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 2:11:47pm

Moral of the story: Never throw anyone under the bus until you’ve securely bound their hands and feet together so they can’t drag you down with them.

98 Mattand  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 2:14:48pm

re: #85 Targetpractice

Considering all the talk that’s gone on in recent weeks about members of the Port Authority, as well as members of Christie’s inner circle, being connected to land deals in Fort Lee and Hoboken, I’m beginning to wonder if the initial assumptions of political payback might have been cover for something much more corrupt.

Yeah, when this shakes out, it’s gonna be ugly. Like Watergate, first Agnew then Nixon resigning ugly.

The more I think about this jackass’s “We’re doing things differently” howling, the angrier I get.

99 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 2:15:26pm

re: #88 klys

What’s sad is when you look at the real numbers and realize that even exploiting the tar sands of Canada doesn’t really buy that much in the way of time, at the current rate of oil consumption (a rate which increases as more countries develop and desire the first-world lifestyle).

The interesting questions are things like: what’s going to happen as the oil reserves start to run out? Things like flying require a certain energy density to happen - otherwise the weight of the fuel required becomes prohibitive. Alternate energy sources could be found for things like home heating and electricity, but jet fuel is trickier.

Things to think on, anyway.

Scarier than air travel is the impact on shipping, the backbone of international trade. Society could probably adjust to the loss of air freight for all but the most time sensitive and necessary items. Travel becomes more of a luxury, well we all expect that anyways. But relatively cheap shipping is how much of the world gets basic nutrition, it’s hard to game a positive outcome from that loss.

100 wrenchwench  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 2:17:04pm


Time for the enemas!

Oh, wait. That’s New Mexico, not New Jersey or New York.

101 TedStriker  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 2:22:24pm

re: #83 Kragar

JOBS! JOBS! JOBS!

Laser beam, etc.

102 calochortus  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 2:22:44pm

Time for a little walk. Catch you all later.

103 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 2:25:10pm

re: #89 Justanotherhuman

Yikes!

Sheriff: Remains in bags likely from 1 person

wnem.com

ST. CLAIR TOWNSHIP, Mich. (AP) -

“A sheriff says body parts found in garbage bags along the road in a Michigan are believed to be the remains of one person.

“…snip

Gotta see this as good news, but I’m a bag-half-full kinda guy.

104 TedStriker  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 2:26:30pm

re: #103 Decatur Deb

Gotta see this as >good news, but I’m a bag-half-full kinda guy.

*groan*

105 Mattand  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 2:26:48pm

Apparently, you can recall a governor in NJ.

106 darthstar  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 2:42:59pm

Behind the scenes photos from a sex-doll factory in China. Some pretty cool images…ignoring the subject for a moment.

107 CuriousLurker  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 2:43:56pm

re: #105 Mattand

Apparently, you can recall a governor in NJ.

The Star-Ledger’s editorial board is basically calling for his head on a platter if Wildstein has the goods:

Chris Christie should resign if bombshell proves true: Editorial

Forget about the White House in 2016. The question now is whether Gov. Chris Christie can survive as governor.

David Wildstein, the man who ordered the George Washington Bridge lane closures, is now pointing the finger directly at Gov. Chris Christie, saying the governor knew about the lane closures in September.

Wildstein claims there is documentary proof that the governor has been lying.

If this proves to be true, then the governor must resign or be impeached. Because it will show that everything he said at his famous two-hour press conference was a lie.

And not just a typical political lie — this was like a Broadway show of lies, and would leave Christie so drained of credibility that he could not possibly govern effectively. He would owe it to the people of New Jersey to step aside. And if he should refuse, then the Legislature should open impeachment hearings. […]

blog.nj.com

Everyone involved is now going to go into CYA mode, and any weak enemies that Christie may have stomped on in his climb up the ladder are gonna be sharpening their knives.

When an elephant* is in trouble, even a frog will kick him.
—Hindu Proverb

————————
* No, that’s not a jab at his weight—I don’t mock people for stuff like that.

108 darthstar  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 2:44:32pm

re: #105 Mattand

Apparently, you can recall a governor in NJ.

Christie would run before taking on that fight.

109 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 2:44:38pm

President Now Has Information Needed to Deny Keystone XL

blog.nwf.org

“Today, the State Department released its long awaited environmental review of the controversial Keystone XL tar sands export pipeline. The State Department’s report for the first time acknowledges that the Keystone XL pipeline has significant climate impacts, and could cause the equivalent carbon emissions of up to almost 6 million new cars being put on the road. With the release of this report, President Obama now has what he has needs to reject this boondoggle pipeline.

“This study is just the beginning of the final review process. It is not the decision. The State Department’s release of this report initiates a larger review process where the President and Secretary Kerry must look at all the facts, listen to other agencies, and decide whether this pipeline is in the “national interest.” In addition to acknowledging climate impacts, the study confirms tar sands is much more polluting than regular oil.”

(cont)

110 darthstar  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 2:45:51pm

re: #107 CuriousLurker

The Star-Ledger’s editorial board is basically calling for his head on a platter if Wildstein has the goods:

Everyone involved is now going to go into CYA mode, and any weak enemies that Christie may have stomped on in his climb up the ladder are gonna be sharpening their knives.

How quickly we move from “I’ll take the fifth to protect my high school friend.” to “He said what about me? Fuck that douchebag. He knew and here’s the proof.”

111 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 2:46:12pm

re: #106 darthstar

Behind the scenes photos from a sex-doll factory in China. Some pretty cool images…ignoring the subject for a moment.

[Embedded image]

Talk about objectification…

112 CuriousLurker  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 2:47:36pm

re: #110 darthstar

How quickly we move from “I’ll take the fifth to protect my high school friend.” to “He said what about me? Fuck that douchebag. He knew and here’s the proof.”

LOL—QFT

113 blueraven  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 2:52:19pm

CNN is having a pretty good discussion on this. MSNBC is delighted about it.
Fox…nada, so far.

114 klys  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 2:53:00pm

re: #113 blueraven

CNN is having a pretty good discussion on this. MSNBC is delighted about it.
Fox…nada, so far.

Careful, someone might think we’re an MSNBC echo chamber.

//

115 darthstar  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 2:53:28pm

re: #113 blueraven

CNN is having a pretty good discussion on this. MSNBC is delighted about it.
Fox…nada, so far.

Fox News will get to Governor Chris Christie (D-NJ) right after they finish crying.

116 blueraven  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 2:56:39pm

re: #114 klys

Careful, someone might think we’re an MSNBC echo chamber.

//

I feel I am missing some context.

117 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 2:58:08pm
118 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 2:59:44pm

re: #117 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

LOL wut?

119 klys  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 3:00:03pm

re: #116 blueraven

I feel I am missing some context.

It’s probably not worth trying to figure out.

120 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 3:00:24pm

re: #119 klys

Yes, there seems to be some crankiness about.

121 blueraven  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 3:01:24pm

re: #117 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Isn’t this changing the story up a bit? It is very carefully worded.

he had absolutely no prior knowledge of the lane closures before they happened

122 TedStriker  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 3:01:30pm

re: #113 blueraven

CNN is having a pretty good discussion on this. MSNBC is delighted about it.
Fox…nada, so far.

re: #114 klys

Careful, someone might think we’re an MSNBC echo chamber.

//

Too late for that, since KT has branded us the LGF chapter of the Rachel Maddow Fan Club.

///

123 darthstar  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 3:01:53pm

Serious CT shit at the link.

124 makeitstop  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 3:02:21pm

re: #114 klys

Careful, someone might think we’re an MSNBC echo chamber.

//

I had to bail from the last thread because of that. It gets…tiresome.

125 blueraven  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 3:02:27pm

re: #122 AlexRogan

Too late for that, since KT has branded us the LGF chapter of the Rachel Maddow Fan Club.

///

Oh OK, thanks.

126 darthstar  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 3:02:41pm

re: #122 AlexRogan

Too late for that, since KT has branded us the LGF chapter of the Rachel Maddow Fan Club.

///

Rachel’s hot. But she’s a lesbian, I’m a dude, and we’re both married to our respective wives.

127 darthstar  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 3:04:38pm
128 Mattand  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 3:06:06pm

re: #117 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

That literally makes no sense.

129 Targetpractice  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 3:06:13pm

re: #117 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Funny, Wildstein hasn’t even presented his evidence, yet Christie’s office is sure that they’ve been exonerated. They seem to believe that if they can prove he had no clue about the closings until months after the fact, then he can claim ignorance of what was going on in his own office.

130 Mattand  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 3:07:56pm

re: #129 Targetpractice

Funny, Wildstein hasn’t even presented his evidence, yet Christie’s office is sure that they’ve been exonerated. They seem to believe that if they can prove he had no clue about the closings until months after the fact, then he can claim ignorance of what was going on in his own office.

Assuming Wildstein’s on the level, the only thing that would save Christie’s ass at this point is destroying evidence.

131 makeitstop  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 3:09:21pm

re: #130 Mattand

Assuming Wildstein’s on the level, the only thing that would save Christie’s ass at this point is destroying evidence.

Where are Haldeman and Erlichmann when you need them?

/

132 Mattand  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 3:10:09pm

re: #107 CuriousLurker

It should probably be pointed out that this is the same Star Ledger in November that bad mouthed Christie up and down the street, and then endorsed him for governor.

133 KiTA  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 3:10:43pm

re: #83 Kragar

JOBS! JOBS! JOBS!

[Embedded content]

Don’t be too quick to dismiss it. Those creationist bills are bait to get the Fundamentalists and Tea Party nutjobs out to vote. The 11 or 12 anti-LGBI civil rights bills that were pushed out right before Bush’s first real electoral win are what gave him a second term.

There’s a lot of people out there that will plug their noses and vote Republican if it means their invisible sky god might be allowed to brainwash a bunch of children who are effectively, restrained and forced to listen.

134 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 3:13:53pm
135 Targetpractice  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 3:14:02pm

re: #130 Mattand

Assuming Wildstein’s on the level, the only thing that would save Christie’s ass at this point is destroying evidence.

The statement’s trying to muddy the waters, saying that Christie had no prior knowledge of the closures (something that Wildstein’s letter does not accuse him of) and that Wildstein’s statements of Christie knowing about the closures still allows him to say he knew nothing about the reason behind said closures before Kelley’s text messages became public knowledge.

I imagine Big Chris right now is sweating over what Wildstein will actually reveal to investigators in exchange for immunity or at least a plea deal. If it comes out that Christie knew there was no traffic study, then he’s toast.

136 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 3:14:42pm

Cancel this POS. No way this would ever, ever be worth it, aside from all other considerations.

137 Mattand  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 3:16:45pm

re: #136 Justanotherhuman

Cancel this POS. No way this would ever, ever be worth it, aside from all other considerations.

[Embedded content]

Seriously. One spill would wipe that out in a heart beat.

138 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 3:19:00pm

re: #137 Mattand

Seriously. One spill would wipe that out in a heart beat.

Hell, they can’t even keep up with the damage that’s already being created. These companies get away with murder—literally.

139 Targetpractice  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 3:19:48pm

re: #136 Justanotherhuman

Cancel this POS. No way this would ever, ever be worth it, aside from all other considerations.

[Embedded content]

So the pipeline will contribute a statistically insignificant fraction of a percentage to the GDP, the bulk of the jobs “created” will last a maximum of six months as the pipeline’s constructed, the final products are intended for export, and the supposed benefits to American manufacturers are bunk because the majority of the materials meant for construction were made in Canada.

Why exactly is this a good idea?

140 Romantic Heretic  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 3:20:41pm

re: #37 Lidane

Exclusive video from Christie HQ:

[Embedded content]

Love me some minions.

141 EPR-radar  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 3:24:01pm

re: #139 Targetpractice

So the pipeline will contribute a statistically insignificant fraction of a percentage to the GDP, the bulk of the jobs “created” will last a maximum of six months as the pipeline’s constructed, the final products are intended for export, and the supposed benefits to American manufacturers are bunk because the majority of the materials meant for construction were made in Canada.

Why exactly is this a good idea?

In other words, Keystone is just a bit worse than the other big trade boondoggles we’ve seen.

142 Skip Intro  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 3:24:39pm

Mitt Romney Is the 2016 Republican Front-Runner

In New Hampshire. Followed closely by Rand Paul, and Chris Christie.

WOO-HOO!

nationaljournal.com

143 Lidane  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 3:25:29pm

re: #139 Targetpractice

So the pipeline will contribute a statistically insignificant fraction of a percentage to the GDP, the bulk of the jobs “created” will last a maximum of six months as the pipeline’s constructed, the final products are intended for export, and the supposed benefits to American manufacturers are bunk because the majority of the materials meant for construction were made in Canada.

Why exactly is this a good idea?

DRILL BABY DRILL!

144 Romantic Heretic  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 3:28:31pm

re: #47 Political Atheist

Just IMO, but the only way out of building that pipeline or something a lot like it was committing to alternative and nuclear energy quite some time ago. But the lack of perceived urgency and environmental concerns are holding those back even as oil does it global damage. Just look at the “Into Eternity” documentary for a glimpse.

if aliens came by to visit, could they stop laughing long enough to talk?
//

They’d probably say something like this.

We’d better hope they’re not organized along the line of David Brin’s Uplift Saga. They’d be honour bound to make humans extinct for fucking up our planet this badly.

145 Skip Intro  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 3:28:37pm

re: #75 goddamnedfrank

By the time it gets to Nebraska the XL pipeline will be running though America’s breadbasket, and land that is almost 20 times as population dense as the State of Alaska. It will also be carrying one of the worst, most awful grades of petroleum. Shit so nasty and viscous that it has to be artificially thinned with additional solvents before it will flow at all.

The way I see it, the XL pipeline benefits us in the same way a dog peeing benefits a lawn.

146 dog philosopher  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 3:29:51pm

re: #142 Skip Intro

>Mitt Romney Is the 2016 Republican Front-Runner

In New Hampshire. Followed closely by Rand Paul, and Chris Christie.

WOO-HOO!

nationaljournal.com

mitt romney v.2016 will be constructed with lighter weight, more responsive materials

147 klys  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 3:30:23pm

Logging off for travel here.

Later Lizards!

148 Lidane  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 3:31:01pm

re: #142 Skip Intro

>Mitt Romney Is the 2016 Republican Front-Runner

In New Hampshire. Followed closely by Rand Paul, and Chris Christie.

WOO-HOO!

nationaljournal.com

Romneybot 2016: Now With an Empathy Chip!

Too bad for Mitt that he’s running Windows 8.

149 A Mom Anon  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 3:32:18pm

re: #146 dog philosopher

Why is this man still even in the news or on my teevee? He lost. He’s got more money than most people ever could dream of. Take Ann on a nice vacation, hang out with the grandkids, something, anything. How can we miss him if he won’t go away?

150 EPR-radar  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 3:33:23pm

re: #142 Skip Intro

>Mitt Romney Is the 2016 Republican Front-Runner

In New Hampshire. Followed closely by Rand Paul, and Chris Christie.

WOO-HOO!

nationaljournal.com

What’s left of the GOP establishment (as distinguished from the tea baggers) has a real problem with finding a candidate for 2016.

I’d have some sympathy, except that this is the same GOP establishment that created their Frankenstein monster of a base to begin with.

151 Skip Intro  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 3:34:29pm

re: #148 Lidane

Romneybot 2016: Now With an Empathy Chip!

Too bad for Mitt that he’s running Windows 8.

This time around he won’t choose a stiff like Paul Ryan for VP. He’ll choose someone warm and caring, like Ann.

152 dog philosopher  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 3:35:02pm

re: #148 Lidane

Romneybot 2016: Now With an Empathy Chip!

Too bad for Mitt that he’s running Windows 8.

i think w must have been running cp/m

153 EPR-radar  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 3:35:47pm

re: #151 Skip Intro

This time around he won’t choose a stiff like Paul Ryan for VP. He’ll choose someone warm and caring, like Ann.

Hilarious! Ann really is one of the few people who can come across worse than Ryan, the Zombie-Eyed Granny Starver.

154 BongCrodny  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 3:40:26pm

re: #150 EPR-radar

What’s left of the GOP establishment (as distinguished from the tea baggers) has a real problem with finding a candidate for 2016.

I’d have some sympathy, except that this is the same GOP establishment that created their Frankenstein monster of a base to begin with.

“This is not an ‘Onion’ story.”

Awesome.

155 lawhawk  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 3:43:45pm

Well, this is the Super Bowl of Friday Night News Dumps. Perfect timing for maximum impact.

So, what does all this mean? Wildstein’s still angling for the immunity that has thus far eluded him. So, this is a troll to get one of the prosecutors looking into this to give him immunity.

This is also an attempt to try and get the Port Authority to pay up for his legal bills (Wildstein resigned; he wasn’t fired).

Christie’s again playing damage control mode, and isn’t taking questions from media outlets.

It will depend on what exactly the lawyer says he has as to whether it means Christie’s toast or not. If he produces documents or memos indicating that Christie knew that the lane closures were going to happen, that goes to how accurate he was at his lengthy presser where he claimed no knowledge.

If Wildstein’s lawyer produces a memo or document or voice mail or something like that indicating that Christie was initiating the lane closure, then Christie’s beyond toast. That’s got potential criminality involved.

Right now, I’m thinking that Wildstein’s got something in the former grouping - something showing that Christie knew that there was a lane closure, but not necessarily that Christie ordered it.

That would change if he releases information showing that Christie knew that the traffic study was a bogus cover before he claims to have learned of the situation.

156 A Mom Anon  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 3:47:46pm

re: #149 A Mom Anon

I don’t understand rich people. I thought the whole idea of getting wealthy in the first place is to have enough money to be successful and secure. So once you get there, why not stop and enjoy what you have? Most of these people have more money than they could ever spend in a life time or even 10 lifetimes, so what the hell is their problem? I get the whole power thing, sort of, but what is the point of having all that money if you are constantly working to hoard away more that you honestly do not need?

I also get having a successful business and wanting to see it continue, but a lot of these people bounce from business to business anyway or sit on the boards of half a dozen companies so it’s not like they’re keeping a pet project afloat.

I guess I’ve been poor long enough to be more practical about finances. If I were to be left a fortune or something worth a fortune, or win the lottery, I don’t think I’d be one of those morons that goes broke in a year or ends up miserable. I’d pay my debts, make sure my kids and grandkids were taken care of and then I’d take the husband and we’d go visit all the National Parks and eventually settle somewhere with a great view and a nice garden space til we’re old and then dead. No drama, no crazy shit. We’ve talked about it a lot, and we both agree that we might be a little frivolous, but we’d take care of business first. I don’t get wanting more and more and more when you already have more than you could ever want. it’s like money makes some people insane.

157 lawhawk  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 3:47:53pm

Meanwhile, coming home this evening and got treated to a military overflight. A gaggle of military helicopters in close formation at just a few hundred feet in the air - moving in the general direction towards the Meadowlands.

I think that they were a mix of Black Hawks and Apaches, but it was too dark to tell exactly what all of them were.

With the Super Bowl, I’m guessing this may be part of the overflight package/security detail for the national special security event.

And lo and behold, I was mostly right. The flyover will be Black Hawks, Apaches, and Chinooks.

158 Teukka  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 3:50:01pm

I wonder whether it is too early to dedicate this song to Christie?

Youtube Video

(song title speaks for itself) *crosses fingers*

159 piratedan  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 3:50:43pm

re: #156 A Mom Anon

I don’t understand rich people. I thought the whole idea of getting wealthy in the first place is to have enough money to be successful and secure. So once you get there, why not stop and enjoy what you have? Most of these people have more money than they could ever spend in a life time or even 10 lifetimes, so what the hell is their problem? I get the whole power thing, sort of, but what is the point of having all that money if you are constantly working to hoard away more that you honestly do not need?

I also get having a successful business and wanting to see it continue, but a lot of these people bounce from business to business anyway or sit on the boards of half a dozen companies so it’s not like they’re keeping a pet project afloat.

I guess I’ve been poor long enough to be more practical about finances. If I were to be left a fortune or something worth a fortune, or win the lottery, I don’t think I’d be one of those morons that goes broke in a year or ends up miserable. I’d pay my debts, make sure my kids and grandkids were taken care of and then I’d take the husband and we’d go visit all the National Parks and eventually settle somewhere with a great view and a nice garden space til we’re old and then dead. No drama, no crazy shit. We’ve talked about it a lot, and we both agree that we might be a little frivolous, but we’d take care of business first. I don’t get wanting more and more and more when you already have more than you could ever want. it’s like money makes some people insane.

and from everything I can see, no/zero/nada/bupkis in the way of personal motivation to make this a better place for anyone not already a member of their class/strata. It’s like If I was President, that would really look good on my resume and I could grift for a lifetime… disregarding that they already have been, for the entirety of their lifetime.

160 bratwurst  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 3:50:47pm
161 elektramourns  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 3:52:35pm

It feels good to watch a politician go down due to good old-fashioned bullying and cronyism and lies and distortions. Reminds me of sleazy Illinois or New York politics. Christie, your state will once again be remembered as a bad place, a crooked place, the stereotype we all have of it when we choose to invoke that stereotype. You reinforced the stereotype, Guvner. Shame on you !

162 Lancelot Link  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 3:52:54pm

re: #47 Political Atheist

if aliens came by to visit, could they stop laughing long enough to talk?
//

“Because all you of Earth…are IDIOTS!”

163 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 3:53:20pm

Are any of the gunny types around? Or perhaps even KT? Here’s a delightful little gun magazine from those who haven’t heard that the Soviet Union collapsed… Or if they did hear, really don’t care O_O

If Soviet kitsch is a bit much at times, then you might prefer this blog instead: occupy2a.wordpress.com

164 dog philosopher  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 3:55:12pm

re: #105 Mattand

Apparently, you can recall a governor in NJ.

2003 California Gray Davis Recalled

actually, i can’t recall what he even looked like

165 A Mom Anon  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 3:55:47pm

OK, kid is home for the weekend, and he’s got a bad cold, time to go and spend some time with him and the Husband. Have a good evening all.

166 dog philosopher  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 3:57:01pm

re: #156 A Mom Anon

I don’t understand rich people. I thought the whole idea of getting wealthy in the first place is to have enough money to be successful and secure. So once you get there, why not stop and enjoy what you have?

generally they seem to immediately find something else to be unhappy about

167 EPR-radar  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 3:58:25pm

re: #166 dog philosopher

generally they seem to immediately find something else to be unhappy about

Too often these days, that amounts to griping about inadequate levels of worship from the great majority of people who are obliged to work for a living.

168 sagehen  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 4:07:07pm

re: #76 A Mom Anon

That whole thing is so misleading. So the real reason liberals win is because most moderates vote for Dems? So wouldn’t that make them more on the liberal side of things than not?

Better media please, FFS it’s 2014 we can do better than this.

Because the states where conservatives vastly outnumber liberals are states with less than a million people; one state where liberals vastly outnumber conservatives has more people than the 25 least populous states all added together.

Also… people who are moderately conservative vote D, because they’re closer to moderate liberals than they are to the extreme reactionary right wing.

169 b_sharp  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 4:08:05pm

re: #152 dog philosopher

i think w must have been running cp/m

Precursor to DOS.

170 darthstar  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 4:08:45pm

re: #164 dog philosopher

2003 California Gray Davis Recalled

actually, i can’t recall what he even looked like

I look forward to saying that about Christie.

171 darthstar  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 4:09:27pm
172 darthstar  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 4:20:26pm

I know how this cat feels.

173 b_sharp  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 4:20:43pm

It sure is quiet around here.

Too quiet.

174 dog philosopher  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 4:27:08pm

В нога́х правды не́т.

Transliteration: V nogakh pravdy net.
Translation: There is no truth in feet.
Meaning: Take a seat, please.

175 darthstar  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 4:30:31pm

re: #173 b_sharp

It sure is quiet around here.

Too quiet.

Cue the scary music.

176 Skip Intro  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 4:33:01pm

re: #173 b_sharp

It sure is quiet around here.

Too quiet.

I think all the cool kids went to the secret clubhouse and didn’t tell us.

177 dog philosopher  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 4:35:31pm

re: #175 darthstar

Cue the scary music.

the comments are coming from INSIDE THE HOUSE

178 Bubblehead II  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 4:36:31pm

Evening Lizards. I am more or less going to give this Wildstein “bomb shell” at least a week to pan out. Maybe he has something, maybe not. I seem to recall a certain mayor of Hoboken claiming that Lt. Gov. Guadagno threatened to withhold Sandy funds if she did support a redevelopment project. Don’t seem to hear much about that lately now do we?

179 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 4:43:07pm

re: #178 Bubblehead II

Evening Lizards. I am more or less going to give this Wildstein “bomb shell” at least a week to pan out. Maybe he has something, maybe not. I seem to recall a certain mayor of Hoboken claiming that Lt. Gov. Guadagno threatened to withhold Sandy funds if she did support a redevelopment project. Don’t seem to hear much about that lately now do we?

Yeah, that one is more or less dead. There’s a new Christie scandal making the rounds a couple times a week these days. Here’s the latest: MSNBC’s Maddow reports ‘strange’ case involving former Hunterdon assistant prosecutor

Christie may or may not survive the bridge scandal. It’s hard to tell with all the sensationalist reporting and general bullshit floating around.

180 lawhawk  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 4:43:17pm

re: #178 Bubblehead II

It’s still simmering. Zimmer’s claims are a lot tougher to sort out - how exactly do you prove that the aid was withheld when aid was delivered in proportion to what other towns got; just not as much as was requested.

181 RealityBasedSteve  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 4:45:37pm

re: #173 b_sharp

It sure is quiet around here.

Too quiet.

I’m running back and forth doing some laundry. I just enjoyed a bowl of homemade cabbage soup (with lots of veggies), it’s more like veggies in broth, rather than broth with veggies, if you get the difference. I made it with some smoked paprika, it’s got a great taste, nice and spicy.

Only problem, I made a small loaf of bread earlier today, and somehow it’s all gone now. I’m thinking it was the cats that took the bread.

RBS

182 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 4:46:59pm

re: #181 RealityBasedSteve

I’m running back and forth doing some laundry. I just enjoyed a bowl of homemade cabbage soup (with lots of veggies), it’s more like veggies in broth, rather than broth with veggies, if you get the difference. I made it with some smoked paprika, it’s got a great taste, nice and spicy.

Only problem, I made a small loaf of bread earlier today, and somehow it’s all gone now. I’m thinking it was the cats that took the bread.

RBS

Odd. Wife just made me a PBJ on fresh-made bread.

183 Bubblehead II  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 4:47:45pm

re: #179 Killgore Trout

re: #180 lawhawk

Which is why I am waiting for actual evidence in the forms of E-Mails, Voice Mails, written documents, ect. to be produced. Until such documents surface, this is all just shear speculation.

184 b_sharp  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 4:47:51pm

re: #181 RealityBasedSteve

I’m running back and forth doing some laundry. I just enjoyed a bowl of homemade cabbage soup (with lots of veggies), it’s more like veggies in broth, rather than broth with veggies, if you get the difference. I made it with some smoked paprika, it’s got a great taste, nice and spicy.

Only problem, I made a small loaf of bread earlier today, and somehow it’s all gone now. I’m thinking it was the cats that took the bread.

RBS

Cats will do that.

Just like dogs do all the farting.

185 b_sharp  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 4:48:16pm

re: #182 Decatur Deb

Odd. Wife just made me a PBJ on fresh-made bread.

A pickled BJ?

186 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 4:49:54pm

re: #185 b_sharp

A pickled BJ?

Peanut butter—from the Peanut Capitol of the World Which Is Not in Georgia.

187 RealityBasedSteve  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 4:50:14pm

re: #182 Decatur Deb

Odd. Wife just made me a PBJ on fresh-made bread.

ROFL. I’m no baker by any means, but about a year ago a friend turned me on to “Artisan Bread in 5 Minutes a Day”. It’s a wetter dough, no kneading, you store it in the fridge, pull off a chunk, dust it with some flour and shape it quickly. Let it sit for about an hour, then bake. Makes a nice crusty loaf, chewy. Good peasant bread.

RBS

188 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 4:51:21pm

re: #187 RealityBasedSteve

ROFL. I’m no baker by any means, but about a year ago a friend turned me on to “Artisan Bread in 5 Minutes a Day”. It’s a wetter dough, no kneading, you store it in the fridge, pull off a chunk, dust it with some flour and shape it quickly. Let it sit for about an hour, then bake. Makes a nice crusty loaf, chewy. Good peasant bread.

RBS

I’m sure Wife’s an honest baker. Woke up this morning to the smell of baking.

189 RealityBasedSteve  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 4:56:03pm

re: #188 Decatur Deb

I’m sure Wife’s an honest baker. Woke up this morning to the smell of baking.

Yea, Baking is Chemistry, and I’ve never learned how the chemistry / mixtures / ratios all work out. I can cook, but I can’t bake. This bread makes my tummy happy however.

RBS

190 Varek Raith  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 5:01:36pm

The Water is Safe to Drink, or is it?

CHARLESTON, W.Va. — The “flushing” recommended by the Tomblin administration and West Virginia American Water might not have effectively eliminated Crude MCHM and other toxic chemicals from plumbing systems in homes and businesses, experts are warning.

191 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 5:03:28pm

Video of Afghans throwing stones at US drone hits the Internet

Youtube Video
Looks real enough I suppose. No skid marks so I assume it belly flopped there.

192 Varek Raith  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 5:06:00pm

McMorris Rodgers’ Obamacare Story is a Lie

Bette Grenier and her husband decided to go without coverage because there’s no way she’ll go on “that Obama website” even though “that Obama website” would save her hundreds of dollars.

I can’t say I have a whole lot of sympathy for someone who complains after refusing to go on “that Obama website” to save themselves.

I’m shocked!

193 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 5:06:56pm

‘Military action likely’ if Iran talks fail, US spokeswoman says

I find the prospect of military action from the US very unlikely, I suspect the Iranians feel the same.

194 RealityBasedSteve  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 5:12:42pm

re: #192 Varek Raith

McMorris Rodgers’ Obamacare Story is a Lie

I’m shocked!

Again, I can’t understand cutting off your nose to spite your face attitude some people seem to have regarding the ACA. I would suspect that she also believes that Muslims are exempt from it, and that there are death panels that will be deciding who gets treatment or not. This is another example of what I refer to as “Active Ignorance”, as in “I don’t know, and you can’t teach me”

RBS

195 Decatur Deb  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 5:15:56pm

re: #191 Killgore Trout

Video of Afghans throwing stones at US drone hits the Internet

[Embedded content]


Looks real enough I suppose. No skid marks so I assume it belly flopped there.

Need more work on that ‘hearts and minds’ thing.

196 CuriousLurker  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 5:20:45pm

re: #193 Killgore Trout

‘Military action likely’ if Iran talks fail, US spokeswoman says

I find the prospect of military action from the US very unlikely, I suspect the Iranians feel the same.

Now that you mention it, I can’t recall any military action we’ve taken against Iran since the disastrous hostage rescue attempt approved by President Carter in 1980—am I overlooking something?

What I don’t get is the hysteria over them being some sort of existential threat to Israel. I mean Israel is tiny—how they could possibly launch a significant nuclear attack against it without also killing a bunch of Palestinians and possibly even damaging the Dome of the Rock?

It doesn’t make any sense. Seems wayyy too risky for them.

197 psddluva4evah  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 5:21:34pm

City Of Hoboken Gets Subpoena In Sandy Aid Investigation
talkingpointsmemo.com

198 blueraven  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 5:23:45pm

re: #178 Bubblehead II

Evening Lizards. I am more or less going to give this Wildstein “bomb shell” at least a week to pan out. Maybe he has something, maybe not. I seem to recall a certain mayor of Hoboken claiming that Lt. Gov. Guadagno threatened to withhold Sandy funds if she did support a redevelopment project. Don’t seem to hear much about that lately now do we?

I think the real “bombshell” is that he is obviously willing to talk. What he has to say, and what evidence he has is yet to be seen, but I am sure he can blow this thing wide open.
If prosecutors give him immunity, that’s a good sign he has something significant they think they can use.

As far as Mayor Zimmer, she was asked by the DA Feds not to discuss this to the press or anyone else…for now.

199 Varek Raith  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 5:29:31pm

re: #196 CuriousLurker

Now that you mention it, I can’t recall any military action we’ve taken against Iran since the disastrous hostage rescue attempt approved by President Carter in 1980—am I overlooking something?

What I don’t get is the hysteria over them being some sort of existential threat to Israel. I mean Israel is tiny—how they could possibly launch a significant nuclear attack against it without also killing a bunch of Palestinians and possibly even damaging the Dome of the Rock?

It doesn’t make any sense. Seems wayyy too risky for them.

Because conservatives need an existential threat.

200 EPR-radar  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 5:29:54pm

re: #196 CuriousLurker

The US was a fairly enthusiastic gun runner to Saddam Hussein’s Iraq during the Iran/Iraq war. No direct US action against Iran that I can recall.

As a side point, I do feel it is worth pointing out that the possibility of mass death among the Palestinians as a result of war on Israel by Iran is most likely a total non-factor in Iran’s considerations.

The one thing in that mess that has always been most clear to me is that the anti-Israel nations in that region of the world have no use at all for the Palestinians, except as propaganda tools to use against Israel.

201 Varek Raith  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 5:31:11pm

Iran is glass if it launches a nuclear attack against Israel.
Same if they give one to a terrorist group to attack them.
We can trace where they were made.

202 blueraven  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 5:31:27pm

re: #197 psddluva4evah

City Of Hoboken Gets Subpoena In Sandy Aid Investigation
talkingpointsmemo.com

nj.com

Zimmer two weeks ago said that Lt. Gov. Kim Guadagno and Community Affairs Commissioner Richard Constable both told her that her city would get Sandy aid if she approved a politically-connected development project in the north end of town.

The project, by the Rockefeller group, was represented by Wolf & Samson — the firm of Port Authority Chairman David Samson, a close ally to Christie.

The Rockefeller Group dropped Wolf & Samson on Thursday.

Distance!

203 Varek Raith  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 5:34:39pm

I hate nuclear weapons.
Nothing but terror weapons.

204 psddluva4evah  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 5:34:52pm

re: #202 blueraven

I read that too.

The AG subpoena of city of Hoboken happened later today after all the news about that PA dude.

So yeah, even if the story is “hot on the presses”, doesn’t mean that there is no there, there. As someone said, unlike on one of the crime procedural shows, the wheels of justice really does move slowly and alot of the time as the MSM are too busy with shiny objects

205 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 5:38:14pm

re: #196 CuriousLurker

Now that you mention it, I can’t recall any military action we’ve taken against Iran since the disastrous hostage rescue attempt approved by President Carter in 1980—am I overlooking something?

What I don’t get is the hysteria over them being some sort of existential threat to Israel. I mean Israel is tiny—how they could possibly launch a significant nuclear attack against it without also killing a bunch of Palestinians and possibly even damaging the Dome of the Rock?

It doesn’t make any sense. Seems wayyy too risky for them.

1980 sounds about right. Israel is the most concerned about Iranian nukes but I’m not sure they’re at the top of the target list. If Saddam were still in power I would guess Iran would be more likely to use nukes on Iraq than anywhere else. Iran does have aspirations to expand their influence in the region and simply having nukes, not necessarily using them, would help them accomplish that. The Saudis are getting nervous too.
I seriously doubt the Iranians give a shit about the Palestinians and if push came to shove I think they’d be considered acceptable collateral damage by the Mullahs. I even have serious doubts if Palestinian leadership would complain much about getting nuked if it means the Israelis got nuked too. Fatah might complain a bit but I doubt Hamas would mind much.

206 EPR-radar  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 5:38:48pm

re: #203 Varek Raith

I hate nuclear weapons.
Nothing but terror weapons.

Too true. Let’s hope the biological warfare stuff remains contained indefinitely, since if that was deployed it could be as bad as the nukes.

207 blueraven  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 5:40:53pm

re: #205 Killgore Trout

I even have serious doubts if Palestinian leadership would complain much about getting nuked if it means the Israelis got nuked too. Fatah might complain a bit but I doubt Hamas would mind much.

That is one crazy statement.

208 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 5:40:54pm

re: #203 Varek Raith

I hate nuclear weapons.
Nothing but terror weapons.

The world was still better for them than the two alternatives - a genocidal starving out of the country favored by the navy or a genocidal set of invasions called Operation Olympic that were being planned by the Army. Either alternative would have cost far more lives.

209 EPR-radar  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 5:44:15pm

re: #208 William Barnett-Lewis

The world was still better for them than the two alternatives - a genocidal starving out of the country favored by the navy or a genocidal set of invasions called Operation Olympic that were being planned by the Army. Either alternative would have cost far more lives.

I think we got very lucky with the timing of the development of nuclear weapons vs. major wars. The two plausible alternatives seem to be limited use at the end of a major war (i.e., what happened), or massive use (for the first time) at the onset of a major war.

I don’t think we could have had decades of the US vs. USSR without a world war if everyone didn’t have the dreadful examples of Hiroshima and Nagasaki in mind.

210 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 5:44:59pm

Ah, here’s a timely article from today: U.S. official: Iran considers Saudi Arabia, not Israel, its enemy

Former U.S. ambassador Frederic Hof has revealed that Iranian officials, in private meetings, told him that Iran is not in conflict with the United States or Israel but rather believe Saudi Arabia to be the main threat considering its perceived tampering in Syria, Kuwait’s daily al-Rai reported
….
According to Hof, one Iranian official told him that “neither the U.S. nor Israel intervened in Syria,” adding that the real problem was Saudi Arabia and to a lesser extent, Turkey.

Hof said that Iran believes Saudi Arabia to be Iran’s real enemy inside and outside Syria, and not Israel.

“Iran is concerned about the consequences of the sectarian and civil war in Syria, but Saudi Arabia will benefit from sectarianism in the region,” Iranian officials reportedly told Hof.

211 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 5:46:35pm

re: #207 blueraven

That is one crazy statement.

They are pretty crazy people. Give Hamas a nuke and se what they do with it. They’d wheel it to the border fence and set if off themselves. Hamas doesn’t care about it’s own people.

212 CuriousLurker  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 5:47:52pm

re: #201 Varek Raith

Iran is glass if it launches a nuclear attack against Israel.
Same if they give one to a terrorist group to attack them.
We can trace where they were made.

Despite all their talk, I really don’t think the ayatollahs are suicidal. Why risk it? Iran may be a theocracy, but politicians are politicians and those guys have carved out a pretty comfortable existence for themselves by being at the top of the power structure. Why throw it all away, especially if—as EPR-radar says—the Palestinians are just a propaganda tool?

Lose your propaganda tool, get attacked by the U.S., etc. Where’s the benefit for them? I’m not seeing it.

213 CuriousLurker  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 6:03:07pm

re: #205 Killgore Trout

1980 sounds about right. Israel is the most concerned about Iranian nukes but I’m not sure they’re at the top of the target list. If Saddam were still in power I would guess Iran would be more likely to use nukes on Iraq than anywhere else. Iran does have aspirations to expand their influence in the region and simply having nukes, not necessarily using them, would help them accomplish that. The Saudis are getting nervous too.
I seriously doubt the Iranians give a shit about the Palestinians and if push came to shove I think they’d be considered acceptable collateral damage by the Mullahs. I even have serious doubts if Palestinian leadership would complain much about getting nuked if it means the Israelis got nuked too. Fatah might complain a bit but I doubt Hamas would mind much.

I still just don’t see it. They may have aspirations, but they’re Shia and are FAR outnumbered by Sunnis, the vast majority of whom would be unlikely to accept them as religious leaders because of theological differences. To my knowledge, in the history of Islam there has never been a Shia caliphate that ruled over a Sunni majority.

It would sort of be like suddenly telling the world’s Protestants, “Okay, y’all are gonna do what the Pope says from now on—he’s your new leader.”

214 The War TARDIS  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 6:04:05pm

re: #210 Killgore Trout

That is a very sane look at this. Hell, I think the Saudis are the enemy, and I live in a nation ostensibly allied to them.

215 CuriousLurker  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 6:07:14pm

re: #213 CuriousLurker

I still just don’t see it. They may have aspirations, but they’re Shia and are FAR outnumbered by Sunnis, the vast majority of whom would be unlikely to accept them as religious leaders because of theological differences. To my knowledge, in the history of Islam there has never been a Shia caliphate that ruled over a Sunni majority.

It would sort of be like suddenly telling the world’s Protestants, “Okay, y’all are gonna do what the Pope says from now on—he’s your new leader.”

I take that back—the Fatmids were Shia, but that was wayyyy back in the early days of Islam and there were somewhat of an exception:

The ruling elite of the state belonged to the Ismaili branch of Shi’ism, as were the leaders of the dynasty. They are also part of the chain of holders of the office of Caliph, as recognized by orthodox Muslims. Therefore, this constitutes a rare period in history in which the descendants of Ali via the daughter of the prophet, Fatimah (hence the name Fatimid), and the Caliphate were united to any degree, except for the final period of the Rashidun Caliphate under Ali himself. The term Fatimite is sometimes used to refer to citizens of the caliphate.

en.wikipedia.org

216 CuriousLurker  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 6:08:02pm

Anyhow, I’m out for now. Later, lizards.

217 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jan 31, 2014 6:18:01pm

re: #214 The War TARDIS

That is a very sane look at this. Hell, I think the Saudis are the enemy, and I live in a nation ostensibly allied to them.

It’s a good article and I think it’s accurate. The idea that Iranian nukes are just about Israel is a false talking point. It’s a much larger issue and that article only touches on some issues. There’s also the issue of proliferation. Will the Iranians help out other allies like Venezuela or sell technology to the highest bidder. Nukes also help the Mullahs stay in power domestically. It’s complicated stuff.


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