Steve King Says John Boehner ‘Didn’t Deny’ Calling Him an Asshole

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In an interview today, GOP Rep. Steve King (R-Bedrock) complained that House Speaker John Boehner publicly called him an “asshole.”

Rep. King didn’t actually hear the Speaker’s colorful description himself, however:

King’s remarks come two weeks after Rep. Joaquin Castro (D-Texas) claimed in a Texas Monthly piece that he overheard Boehner deliver the comment. The word was supposedly directed at King for his comparison of undocumented immigrants to drug mules with “calves the size of cantaloupes.”

King says he doesn’t doubt Boehner said it, because Boehner hasn’t denied it.

But I couldn’t help noticing Steve King doesn’t deny he really is an asshole, either.

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335 comments
1 b.d.  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 4:49:45pm

Please proceed GOP

2 jaunte  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 4:50:12pm

Reprehensive Party!
collinsdictionary.com

3 Skip Intro  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 4:52:21pm

ASSHOLE!!!

I hope he heard that.

4 RealityBasedSteve  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 4:52:49pm

I’m surrounded by Assholes!!!!

Youtube Video

RBS

5 Decatur Deb  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 4:52:59pm

Hurry and settle this. Recess is over in 10 minutes.

6 Kragar  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 4:53:17pm

Boehner also never said water wasn’t wet.

7 Lidane  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 4:53:40pm

King would use Sir John of Orange calling him an asshole as a campaign ad in his favor.

8 jaunte  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 4:53:56pm

At least half the country wouldn’t deny calling Steve King an asshole.

9 Skip Intro  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 4:54:37pm

The number of states I’d be willing to relocate to has shrunk dramatically since Obama was elected. If nothing else, I can thank him for drawing the true nature of these people out into the open.

10 b.d.  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 4:54:41pm

Austin gun shop to accept Bitcoin

They claim they’ll still do the required fed paperwork though

“It’s really taken off in the liberty and libertarian community and the tech community,” said Cargill.

Read more: myfoxaustin.com

11 Decatur Deb  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 4:55:12pm

“I categorically deny calling that dipshit an asshole.”

12 Kragar  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 4:56:05pm

re: #10 b.d.

Austin gun shop to accept Bitcoin

myfoxaustin.com

They claim they’ll still do the required fed paperwork though

I love that the GOLD! crowd is jumping on the ephemera known as Bitcoins

13 Kragar  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 4:58:22pm

2010: “We need to base our currency on tangible assets!”

2014: “I’ve invested everything I own into Bitcoins!”

14 Kragar  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 5:01:20pm
15 ObserverArt  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 5:01:25pm

Attention SKIP INTRO!

I just saw you comment in the last thread about checking on a guitar’s value. Here was my response…requoted.

re: #96 Skip Intro

Just out of curiosity, do you have any idea what a circa 1965 Fender Jaguar, all original and in like-new condition for a 50 year old guitar might be worth?

Candy Apple red with a tortoise shell pickguard.

Yeah, it’s mine, bought when I was a kid.

Check with Gary’s Classic Guitars out of the Cincinnati Ohio area. He made me a happy camper when I was looking to sell a Fender Twister/Musiclander. He is extremely fair, know his guitars and a really nice guy.

Link

I was lucky in that I was able to drive down from Columbus to his location. I didn’t have to pay for and trust shipping my baby, so that was great.

And I am glad I did go…he let me hold both a real Fender “No Caster” worth many many thousands and a ‘53 Les Paul Gold Top that was just beautiful. All original and used so it had that real classic thing going on.

He had so many damn nice guitars it was impressive and I asked him who he sold to because not just any person off the street can afford $75,000 and $30,000 guitars. He said turn around ( I was in his office) and look at the photos on that table and above on the wall. I’m not going to drop his names, but damn…it was impressive…Hollywood…TV…and Famous Musicians.

Anyway, if you contact him, tell him you heard about him from some guy in Columbus Ohio that sold him a Fender Swinger back in November.

16 CarleeCork  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 5:02:50pm

This medical clinic near me is now accepting bitcoin.

rapidmed.com

17 Gus  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 5:04:31pm

John Boehner characterizes Steve King as an asshole.

Summary: True

18 Whack-A-Mole  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 5:04:52pm

re: #13 Kragar

2015: Thousands of dudebros lose everything as the price of Bitcoins crash. Coincidentally, public approval of government safety net increases by similar numbers.

19 b.d.  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 5:05:20pm

Remember all the hell that broke loose a few years ago when that pizza place decided to take Mexican money?

Now some made up currency that is produced from unicorn turds is just fine and dandy?

20 Kragar  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 5:08:10pm

re: #18 Whack-A-Mole

2015: Thousands of dudebros lose everything as the price of Bitcoins crash. Coincidentally, public approval of government safety net increases by similar numbers.

BITCOINS WILL NEVER CRASH!

Feds charge Bitcoin start-up founder with money laundering

Less than a year after raising $1.5 million for his Bitcoin exchange start-up BitInstant, CEO Charlie Shrem has been charged with money laundering. A news release from U.S. prosecutors in Manhattan said that Shrem knowingly facilitated illegal purchases on the now-shuttered underground drug marketplace Silk Road.

Silk Road was a Web site that allowed users to buy everything from heroin to fake IDs. To help preserve users’ anonymity, the site required all transactions to be conducted in bitcoins. According to the government, a man named Robert Faiella worked with Shrem to sell bitcoins to Silk Road users. The two men allegedly sold more than $1 million worth, with Shrem giving Faiella a volume discount on BitInstant’s fees.

“Upon receiving orders for Bitcoins from Silk Road users,” the government said, Faiella filled the orders through BitInstant, which “was designed to enable customers to exchange cash for Bitcoins anonymously, that is, without providing any personal identifying information, and it charged a fee for its service.”

21 TedStriker  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 5:08:23pm

re: #14 Kragar

As a Scouter, I say “it’s about damn time”.

22 darthstar  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 5:08:37pm

Steve King is an asshole. And if Boehner did say he was an asshole, it will have been the first time since he became Speaker of the House that Boehner told the truth.

23 austin_blue  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 5:08:57pm

Completely OT, but kind of fascinating:

theguardian.com

That’s 700 separate photos stop-motioned together.

Art!

24 Charles Johnson  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 5:09:43pm

After considerable thought and research, I’ve come to the conclusion it’s quite clear that Steve King is, indeed, an asshole.

25 TedStriker  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 5:09:56pm

re: #12 Kragar

I love that the GOLD! crowd is jumping on the ephemera known as Bitcoins

Because FREEDOM!!!11ty, that’s why.

26 Decatur Deb  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 5:10:47pm

re: #24 Charles Johnson

After considerable thought and research, I’ve come to the conclusion it’s quite clear that Steve King is, indeed, an asshole.

The science isn’t settled.

27 darthstar  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 5:11:20pm

re: #26 Decatur Deb

The science isn’t settled.

Don’t be an asshole denier.

28 freetoken  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 5:11:24pm

re: #26 Decatur Deb

TEACH THE CONTROVERSY!!

29 Kragar  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 5:11:25pm

re: #25 AlexRogan

Because FREEDOM!!!11ty, that’s why.

“The government can’t tell us what to do!”

“Gay people want to get married and women want to get legal safe abortions.”

“WE NEED TO MARCH ON WASHINGTON!”

30 TedStriker  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 5:11:40pm

re: #24 Charles Johnson

After considerable thought and research, I’ve come to the conclusion it’s quite clear that Steve King is, indeed, an asshole.

There you have it, folks…independent and incontrovertible proof that Steve King is, indeed, an asshole.

I concur with this assessment.

31 b.d.  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 5:12:14pm

I hate agreeing with John Boehner

32 bratwurst  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 5:12:32pm

re: #7 Lidane

King would use Sir John of Orange calling him an asshole as a campaign ad in his favor.

Seriously! I was in my car yesterday at the appropriate hours yesterday, and Rush and Savage were talking about Boehner like he is to the left of Bernie Sanders!

33 darthstar  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 5:12:48pm

Speaking of assholes…this one’s like a death at a birthday party.

34 RealityBasedSteve  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 5:12:59pm

The One Weird Trick that Makes Ted Cruz an Asshole…

RBS

35 Whack-A-Mole  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 5:13:18pm

re: #23 austin_blue

Very cool. The beginning transformation into a skull was wonderfully creepy.

36 darthstar  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 5:13:58pm

re: #34 RealityBasedSteve

The One Weird Trick that Makes Ted Cruz an Asshole…

RBS

Top 22 Pics of Assholes Repealing Obamacare —Buzzfeed

37 Kragar  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 5:14:45pm

WOOOOOOO!

38 darthstar  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 5:16:32pm

re: #37 Kragar

You win the internets.

39 Gus  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 5:16:58pm

40 Justanotherhuman  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 5:16:59pm

re: #16 CarleeCork

This medical clinic near me is now accepting bitcoin.

rapidmed.com

It’s TEXAS.

41 Skip Intro  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 5:18:09pm

re: #14 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Jeez, I forgot about those morons. At first I thought they’d come up with a new sex act to try out on the boys.

42 Kragar  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 5:18:37pm

re: #38 darthstar

You win the internets.

THE INVISIBLE PLUNGER OF THE FREE MARKET

republicandalek.tumblr.com

43 Skip Intro  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 5:18:53pm

re: #15 ObserverArt

Will do.

44 Gus  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 5:19:27pm

Of course. Politifact would say “half true.” //

45 Skip Intro  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 5:20:47pm

re: #32 bratwurst

Seriously! I was in my car yesterday at the appropriate hours yesterday, and Rush and Savage were talking about Boehner like he is to the left of Bernie Sanders!

I don’t know how you manage to listen to Savage at all. He hates everyone in the universe, with the sole exception of his male offspring.

46 A Mom Anon  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 5:20:51pm

Can someone explain the appeal of bitcoin to me? Are you buying this “currency” with actual money? So what the hell is the point of it? Or is it some dudebro thing that a silly little girl such as myself just wouldn’t understand?

47 Decatur Deb  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 5:22:09pm

re: #46 A Mom Anon

Can someone explain the appeal of bitcoin to me? Are you buying this “currency” with actual money? So what the hell is the point of it? Or is it some dudebro thing that a silly little girl such as myself just wouldn’t understand?

It seems to be a currency firmly based to the gold in a leprechaun’s kettle.

48 Skip Intro  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 5:23:04pm

re: #46 A Mom Anon

It’s like beanie babies, except that it’s way cooler and beanie babies actually physically exist.

49 Whack-A-Mole  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 5:24:15pm

re: #46 A Mom Anon

The appeal lies partly in it not being connected to any government. Also in it’s supposed untraceability, hence it being the currency of choice for underground enterprises like the Silk Road.

50 ausador  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 5:25:13pm

How strange that Boehner and I have finally have something in common, it would seem that neither of us will deny calling Rep. Steve King an asshole. ;)

51 b.d.  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 5:26:05pm

re: #49 Whack-A-Mole

The appeal lies partly in it not being connected to any government. Also in it’s supposed untraceability, hence it being the currency of choice for underground enterprises like the Silk Road.

It’s the currency of choice for drug dealers and pedophiles.

52 Kragar  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 5:26:33pm

re: #46 A Mom Anon

Can someone explain the appeal of bitcoin to me? Are you buying this “currency” with actual money? So what the hell is the point of it? Or is it some dudebro thing that a silly little girl such as myself just wouldn’t understand?

Imagine being able to invest thousands of dollars in tulip bulbs, only the tulip bulb isn’t real.

53 Justanotherhuman  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 5:28:21pm

re: #49 Whack-A-Mole

The appeal lies partly in it not being connected to any government. Also in it’s supposed untraceability, hence it being the currency of choice for underground enterprises like the Silk Road.

Or merchants or service providers (like that TX clinic) who want to hide income?

54 TedStriker  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 5:28:56pm

re: #45 Skip Intro

I don’t know how you manage to listen to Savage at all. He hates everyone in the universe, with the sole exception of his male offspring.

The one that started/owns Rockstar energy drinks, right?

55 Skip Intro  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 5:29:32pm

re: #52 Kragar

Imagine being able to invest thousands of dollars in tulip bulbs, only the tulip bulb isn’t real.

Yes, the curious thing about gold, bitcoins, survivalist gear, etc. is that you have to use a worthless fiat currency to purchase them.

There’s a contradiction in there someplace.

56 Decatur Deb  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 5:29:38pm

re: #53 Justanotherhuman

Or merchants or service providers (like that TX clinic) who want to hide income?

When you say ‘clinic’ and ‘bitcoin’, the first thought is ‘laetril’.

57 TedStriker  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 5:30:18pm

re: #55 Skip Intro

Yes, the curious thing about gold, bitcoins, survivalist gear, etc. is that you have to use a worthless fiat currency to purchase them.

There’s a contradiction in there someplace.

I know…isn’t that weird?

58 Whack-A-Mole  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 5:30:22pm

re: #51 b.d.

Hadn’t heard of any connection to pedophiles but sadly it doesn’t surprise me at all.

59 Skip Intro  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 5:30:47pm

re: #54 AlexRogan

The one that started/owns Rockstar energy drinks, right?

That’s the one. I wish I still had the picture of “Russ” with Ron Jeremy. Good old Savage family values.

60 TedStriker  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 5:31:40pm

re: #56 Decatur Deb

When you say ‘clinic’ and ‘bitcoin’, the first thought is ‘laetril’.

Nothing says “cancer treatment” like cyanide poisoning.

61 Kragar  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 5:32:20pm

re: #55 Skip Intro

Yes, the curious thing about gold, bitcoins, survivalist gear, etc. is that you have to use a worthless fiat currency to purchase them.

There’s a contradiction in there someplace.

“Why would you want those worthless American dollars which are accepted all over the world when you can have this special highly valuable shiny object which requires a special broker for you to even get a fraction of its supposed value?”

62 Lidane  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 5:32:39pm

re: #46 A Mom Anon

Can someone explain the appeal of bitcoin to me? Are you buying this “currency” with actual money? So what the hell is the point of it? Or is it some dudebro thing that a silly little girl such as myself just wouldn’t understand?

KEEP YER GUBMINT HANDS OFF MAH MONEY!

MONEY THE NSA CAN’T TRACK! ELEVENTY!

63 Decatur Deb  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 5:33:00pm

re: #58 Whack-A-Mole

Hadn’t heard of any connection to pedophiles but sadly it doesn’t surprise me at all.

Both part of the notional ‘Dark Net”.

64 Skip Intro  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 5:34:23pm

re: #61 Kragar

“Why would you want those worthless American dollars which are accepted all over the world when you can have this special highly valuable shiny object which requires a special broker for you to even get a fraction of its supposed value?”

It reminds me of online games where you spend real money to buy game money to buy game things to make yourself the most powerful person in a world that doesn’t exist.

65 ausador  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 5:34:57pm

re: #46 A Mom Anon

Can someone explain the appeal of bitcoin to me? Are you buying this “currency” with actual money? So what the hell is the point of it? Or is it some dudebro thing that a silly little girl such as myself just wouldn’t understand?

It is that it is an anonymous currency in that transactions in bitcoins are not tracked or compiled by the feds. Of course the shutdown of “Silkroad” and arrests for dangerous merchandise sold on “Black market Reloaded” give lie to those particular beliefs.

Still for your garden variety weed transaction or oxy/hydrocodone purchase bitcoin is plenty anonymous enough and leaves no IRS trail (unless they are already looking at you).

66 Decatur Deb  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 5:35:55pm

re: #64 Skip Intro

It reminds me of online games where you spend real money to buy game money to buy game things to make yourself the most powerful person in a world that doesn’t exist.

My winter Farmville crop is in. Would you like to buy some beets?

67 Kragar  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 5:38:19pm
68 RealityBasedSteve  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 5:38:32pm

re: #64 Skip Intro

It reminds me of online games where you spend real money to buy game money to buy game things to make yourself the most powerful person in a world that doesn’t exist.

That’s why Second Life never appealed to me. If you want nice things you have to get an imaginary job or spend real money to buy imaginary things to impress other imaginary people. Sounds too much like my First Life.

RBS

69 Justanotherhuman  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 5:41:04pm

re: #65 ausador

It is that it is an anonymous currency in that transactions in bitcoins are not tracked or compiled by the feds. Of course the shutdown of “Silkroad” and arrests for dangerous merchandise sold on “Black market Reloaded” give lie to those particular beliefs.

Still for your garden variety weed transaction or oxy/hydrocodone purchase bitcoin is plenty anonymous enough and leaves no IRS trail (unless they are already looking at you).

Yeah, but you know they are looking at everyone they could on Silk Road.

70 Gus  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 5:41:26pm

re: #67 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Twitter’s getting a little weird over this.

71 Targetpractice  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 5:42:48pm

re: #68 RealityBasedSteve

That’s why Second Life never appealed to me. If you want nice things you have to get an imaginary job or spend real money to buy imaginary things to impress other imaginary people. Sounds too much like my First Life.

RBS

It’s why I’ve never gotten interested in EVE. People paying real money to work a second job? Yeah, no thanks.

72 TedStriker  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 5:43:50pm

re: #46 A Mom Anon

Can someone explain the appeal of bitcoin to me? Are you buying this “currency” with actual money? So what the hell is the point of it? Or is it some dudebro thing that a silly little girl such as myself just wouldn’t understand?

re: #63 Decatur Deb

Both part of the notional ‘Dark Net”.

Bitcoins (and its imitators/competitors) are what you get when you cross libertarian dudebros who have watched The Matrix and read William Gibson too much with criminal enterprises looking to stay out of the watchful eyes of LEOs, with a side of “traditional” goldbugs (and those who cater to them) looking for quick, easy profit.

73 ObserverArt  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 5:44:00pm

re: #43 Skip Intro

Will do.

Heh. I just decide to see if Gary’s Classic Guitars had the Little Fender I sold him…and sure enough.

He priced it pretty well considering.

Little story. Back when I was a dirt poor art student…I was walking past a pawn shop one day (1976) and out of the corner of my eye I saw this little Fender guitar in the window. I was like, what the hell is that??? I looked at it closely from outside and saw it had a really nice neck, and what appeared to be a factory finish, but I could have sworn it had a shape like nothing I’d ever seen. So, I figured it was some kind of doctored and cut Mustang or something.

I walked inside to ask to see it, and the pawn shop owner, a real piece of work, said,” what do you do?” I looked at him and said, what does that matter I’d like to see that guitar there. “What do you do?” So, I played his game. I told him I’m an art student from the school here in town. He says, “an artist huh, come with me.” He leads me out of the shop, around the side of the store and out a bit into the parking lot. He turns and points up at the outside wall. “See that sign?” Yes, me looking at a well worn sign painted on the wall, been there for 50 years I’d guess. “Can you re-paint that sign?” Yes, I can (as a kid in high school I did some signs, always been a good ‘letterer.’ “I’ll make you a deal, you paint that sign, and give me $80 and that guitar is yours. Deal. Hell I didn’t know what it was and if it was worth anything. But $80 I didn’t really have and a sign that took me about 4 hours or so to redo, and I had my very first electric guitar. Couldn’t play a lick.

Anyway, years later I found out what I had was a really rare little Fender guitar. There isn’t even record of how many were built because it was a strange monster build project using all kinds of spare parts. Now at Gary’s I see it listed at $3595! Wow!!!

Makes me kind of proud and sad at the same time. But, I did have something rare…so that was cool, and I did make out. Though not $3595!

Here is the link to it at Gary’s if any guitar buffs are interested. And check out some of his stock. Truly amazing stuff!

Link

74 Kragar  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 5:44:01pm

re: #71 Targetpractice

It’s why I’ve never gotten interested in EVE. People paying real money to work a second job? Yeah, no thanks.

I basically gave up on MMOs because they’ve all gone into “Free but pay to do this” mode

75 Justanotherhuman  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 5:44:24pm

Why would you buy funny money when you could pay with real United States money?

Heck, I’d even use Canadian money before Bitcoin. : )

The only other “money’ I want to play around with is Monopoly money.

76 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 5:46:11pm

This Boehner / King beef is interesting in that it illustrates the dysfunction in the establishment wing of the GOP as their civil war with the Tea Party heats up. King, a loose cannon, made a lot of enemies on both sides during the shutdown by openly opposing it to the point of insubordination. Neither Boehner nor the Cruz Tea Party faction Boehner attempted to placate by going along with the shutdown are happy with King. So now Castro, a Texas Democrat, is cleverly stoking embers from a previous five or six month old immigration incident to again put King and Boehner at each other’s throats, factionalizing them further at a time when the establishment GOP badly needs to coalesce.

77 Charles Johnson  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 5:46:30pm

On the Woody Allen story, this is interesting reading. Not saying I buy it, but Allen’s not without defenders.

The Woody Allen Allegations: Not So Fast

78 Targetpractice  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 5:46:34pm

re: #74 Kragar

I basically gave up on MMOs because they’ve all gone into “Free but pay to do this” mode

Yeah, MMOs do not really hold much appeal to me. Either you have to pay a monthly subscription atop the $60 up front cost just to play or you can play free-to-play but get your ass kicked by the people who spend real money to effectively cheat by buying more powerful weapons and gear that you can get in the game unless you grind like mad.

79 ausador  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 5:46:36pm

re: #67 Kragar

I assume that was a Woody Allen reference…

80 Decatur Deb  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 5:46:43pm

re: #72 AlexRogan

Bitcoins (and its imitators/competitors) are what you get when you cross libertarian dudebros who have watched The Matrix and read William Gibson too much with criminal enterprises looking to stay out of the watchful eyes of LEOs, with a side of “traditional” goldbugs looking for easy profit.

In the end, every currency rests on firepower and jail cells. I don’t see either attached to Bitcoin.

81 Gus  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 5:48:49pm
82 Whack-A-Mole  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 5:49:34pm

re: #78 Targetpractice

That’s what finally killed MMOs for me, the endless grind time or pay cash model. Too many better things to do with both my time and money.

83 Varek Raith  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 5:50:27pm

re: #81 Gus

[Embedded content]

You’re famous!

84 Romantic Heretic  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 5:50:37pm

re: #19 b.d.

Remember all the hell that broke loose a few years ago when that pizza place decided to take Mexican money?

Now some made up currency that is produced from unicorn turds is just fine and dandy?

What’s really funny is the same people who worship Bitcoin are always going on about how bad ‘fiat currency’ is.

It doesn’t get more fiat than Bitcoin.

85 Decatur Deb  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 5:51:31pm

re: #84 Romantic Heretic

What’s really funny is the same people who worship Bitcoin are always going on about how bad ‘fiat currency’ is.

It doesn’t get more fiat than Bitcoin.

Sexy, underpowered and rust-prone?

86 Targetpractice  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 5:52:09pm

re: #84 Romantic Heretic

What’s really funny is the same people who worship Bitcoin are always going on about how bad ‘fiat currency’ is.

It doesn’t get more fiat than Bitcoin.

Yeah, but remember a lot of them also believe that putting all your money in gold is a great idea because if the economy collapses or the apocalypse happens, that gold will still be valuable.

87 TedStriker  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 5:53:02pm

re: #78 Targetpractice

Yeah, MMOs do not really hold much appeal to me. Either you have to pay a monthly subscription atop the $60 up front cost just to play or you can play free-to-play but get your ass kicked by the people who spend real money to effectively cheat by buying more powerful weapons and gear that you can get in the game unless you grind like mad.

It’s a feature, not a bug, of course, so that people to spend more money to play.

I’m so glad that I never really got into MMOs; Everquest was my only entry into the genre and I didn’t dig it at all.

88 Varek Raith  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 5:53:15pm

re: #86 Targetpractice

Yeah, but remember a lot of them also believe that putting all your money in gold is a great idea because if the economy collapses or the apocalypse happens, that gold will still be valuable.

Morons.
Bottle caps are the post-apocalyptic currency.

89 RealityBasedSteve  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 5:53:23pm

re: #78 Targetpractice

Yeah, MMOs do not really hold much appeal to me. Either you have to pay a monthly subscription atop the $60 up front cost just to play or you can play free-to-play but get your ass kicked by the people who spend real money to effectively cheat by buying more powerful weapons and gear that you can get in the game unless you grind like mad.

I have a friend / coworker that is big into WOW. He’s a computer geek and teaches Admin where I work. His idea of working out is watching sports on TV. I walked into his room one day, and he has a bot program grinding out in WOW while he was sitting there eating jelly doughnuts. I told him that summed him up in a nutshell, Get a bot to play your video game while you stuff fat pill down your throat. His reply… “yea, and you make it sound like a bad thing”.

RBS

90 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 5:54:24pm

re: #80 Decatur Deb

In the end, every currency rests on firepower and jail cells. I don’t see either attached to Bitcoin.

The most glaring problem I see with Bitcoin is that it’s infrastructure, generation and validation mechanisms depend entirely on the internet, a largely unfettered internet. Okay, that’s obvious, great, but the implications in any kind of emergency / societal disturbance are enormous. Bitcoin markets itself as an underground, counterculture currency, but in a real irony its dependence makes it worthless without the very establishment it ostensibly undermines.

91 TedStriker  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 5:54:45pm

re: #85 Decatur Deb

Sexy, underpowered and rust-prone?

Fix It Again, Tony.

/hopefully, something that’s changed in recent years, especially since they own Chrysler now

92 Decatur Deb  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 5:55:38pm

re: #88 Varek Raith

Morons.
Bottle caps are the post-apocalyptic currency.

How much for a 1983 Figgy-Fizz?

93 Varek Raith  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 5:56:34pm

re: #92 Decatur Deb

How much for a 1983 Figgy-Fizz?

1 cap.

94 RealityBasedSteve  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 5:56:44pm

re: #85 Decatur Deb

Sexy, underpowered and rust-prone?

Bitcoin is a Chevy Monza?

RBS

95 Charles Johnson  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 5:57:08pm

That’s how I spent my Saturday.

96 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 5:57:39pm

re: #86 Targetpractice

Yeah, but remember a lot of them also believe that putting all your money in gold is a great idea because if the economy collapses or the apocalypse happens, that gold will still be valuable.

Say what you will about gold, it will at least still be tangible. That’s an incredibly important criteria when otherwise surrounded by uncertainty.

97 Decatur Deb  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 5:58:08pm

re: #90 goddamnedfrank

The most glaring problem I see with Bitcoin is that it’s infrastructure, generation and validation mechanisms depend entirely on the internet, a largely unfettered internet. Okay, that’s obvious, great, but the implications in any kind of emergency / societal disturbance are enormous. Bitcoin markets itself as an underground, counterculture currency, but in a real irony its dependence makes it worthless without the very establishment it ostensibly undermines.

You don’t appreciate the romantic elan in trusting your hard-earned pelf to a bunch of self-proclaimed eGangstas.

98 Decatur Deb  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 6:00:04pm

re: #96 goddamnedfrank

Say what you will about gold, it will at least still be tangible. That’s an incredibly important criteria when otherwise surrounded by uncertainty.

Say what you will about greenbacks, they have the full faith and credit of the 82nd Airborne behind them.

99 b_sharp  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 6:00:24pm

re: #95 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

That’s how I spent my Saturday.

I spent my Saturday digging through blown-in fiberglass insulation, drilling holes and pulling wire.

You win.

100 Targetpractice  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 6:00:41pm

re: #96 goddamnedfrank

Say what you will about gold, it will at least still be tangible. That’s an incredibly important criteria when otherwise surrounded by uncertainty.

It’s tangible, but its value has traditionally been defined by scarcity, and even that has itself relied upon other people desiring it. In any scenario where global currency would lose all its value, most people are going to be focused on other tangible items. Clean water is likely to more valuable than a Krugerrand.

101 Gus  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 6:05:26pm

re: #77 Charles Johnson

On the Woody Allen story, this is interesting reading. Not saying I buy it, but Allen’s not without defenders.

The Woody Allen Allegations: Not So Fast

Do. Not. Tweet. That.

102 Gus  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 6:07:00pm

Of course. There is, this.

103 Romantic Heretic  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 6:07:49pm

re: #64 Skip Intro

It reminds me of online games where you spend real money to buy game money to buy game things to make yourself the most powerful person in a world that doesn’t exist.

A case in point.

104 TedStriker  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 6:08:43pm

re: #96 goddamnedfrank

Say what you will about gold, it will at least still be tangible. That’s an incredibly important criteria when otherwise surrounded by uncertainty.

True, gold (and other precious metals, like silver and platinum) are indeed physical, tangible things, but their value still depends on what other people are willing to trade for it.

In the typical SHTF scenario that the survivalist goldbugs love to game for where modern civilization just falls apart, food, water, and shelter are going to be more at a premium than a bunch of shiny rocks whose primary value is that they’re shiny (and scarce). Hell, guns and ammo (along with bows and arrows) would be worth much more than gold, because you at least hunt food and defend yourself with them (or have the leverage to take others’ food, water, and shelter from them, if it came down to it).

105 Skip Intro  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 6:12:39pm

re: #66 Decatur Deb

My winter Farmville crop is in. Would you like to buy some beets?

Got any water? I could use a couple of thousand gallons.

106 Romantic Heretic  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 6:15:20pm

re: #104 AlexRogan

Rich? Poor? I’m the one with the gun. - with apologies to Bruce Campbell.

107 Decatur Deb  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 6:17:57pm

re: #103 Romantic Heretic

A case in point.

That will have some real-world value if it teaches a bunch of feather merchants just how staggeringly expensive warfare is. One F35=one fancy highschool.

108 Charles Johnson  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 6:20:53pm

re: #101 Gus

Do. Not. Tweet. That.

Well, uh, like I said, I’m not necessarily buying it, but there’s more than one side to this story, and it’s not wrong to check out what all sides have to say for themselves.

Weide is totally up-front about his Woody Allen documentary in that piece, btw.

109 Gus  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 6:23:04pm

re: #108 Charles Johnson

Well, uh, like I said, I’m not necessarily buying it, but there’s more than one side to this story, and it’s not wrong to check out what all sides have to say for themselves.

Weide is totally up-front about his Woody Allen documentary in that piece, btw.

Welp, that’s all Bob Cesca did too.

110 Justanotherhuman  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 6:24:02pm

re: #77 Charles Johnson

On the Woody Allen story, this is interesting reading. Not saying I buy it, but Allen’s not without defenders.

The Woody Allen Allegations: Not So Fast

So this guy who worked with Allen for 2 yrs making a documentary of him (and, presumably, becoming friendly) writes a screed totally trying to demolish the mother and planting seeds of doubt about the daughter’s memory (and alleged “brainwashing”) by her mother? One of the things that stands out about Mia Farrow, in addition to being brought up in the steam cooker of Hollywood, is that as a very young woman, she, too, married an older man (Sinatra). She was 21, he 51. When she met Previn, she was 23 and married him at 25, he was 40. And BTW, Dory Previn was institutionalized in 1965, well before Farrow met Previn in 1968 and the marriage was already strained. She worked again w/Previn in her later years. People move on.

I’m not buying Bob Weide’s apologia for Allen.

111 Gus  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 6:31:14pm

™

112 Gus  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 6:31:44pm

Oops. Was using that for a tweet.

113 wheat-dogghazi  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 6:33:09pm

re: #46 A Mom Anon

Bitcoins exist only as encrypted code in your computer, mobile phone, or even in paper form. Every Bitcoin transaction gets recorded into an electronic public ledger called the “blockchain,” so Bitcoins (theoretically) can’t be counterfeited or “double-spent”. Its value against the dollar/euro/whatever depends only on what the Bitcoin market assigns it — a free marketeer’s delight. It’s not regulated or dispersed by a central authority. which makes it a libertarian’s honeychild.

In Libertarian Dreamland, they imagine Bitcoins as a replacement for fiat currency, credit cards, bank wires, etc., existing independently from centrally controlled money systems, free from government snooping and meddling. In the cold, hard reality we call Life, Bitcoins are not independent from the existing money system or from government regulation. For most people, the only way to get Bitcoins is to buy them with dollars/euros/whatever, and those currencies ARE regulated and controlled. And buying stuff with Bitcoins is not completely anonymous, as the idiots behind Silk Road and BitInstant learned to their dismay.

In the beginning, one Bitcoin was just worth a dollar or less. Now, 1 BTC = $800. Two things drove up the price. The financial meltdown in Cyprus, which drove Cypriots to ditch their national currency to buy Bitcoins in spring 2013, and the participation of the Chinese, who see Bitcoins as a way to move their money out of yuan and into dollars/euros/etc. offshore. The same trend is happening in Russia, Argentina and Indonesia — Bitcoins are seen as a hedge against inflation.

114 Gus  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 6:33:28pm

115 TedStriker  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 6:37:58pm

re: #114 Gus

[Embedded image]

Been taking lens flare lessons from JJ Abrams, I see.

///

116 Stanley Sea  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 6:39:16pm

Seahawks!

117 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 6:39:47pm

re: #100 Targetpractice

It’s tangible, but its value has traditionally been defined by scarcity, and even that has itself relied upon other people desiring it. In any scenario where global currency would lose all its value, most people are going to be focused on other tangible items. Clean water is likely to more valuable than a Krugerrand.

Very true, but unlike a Bitcoin, a Krugerrand can still have monetary value without computers. And by melting it down, its gold can be used for other purposes.

118 Charles Johnson  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 6:40:43pm

re: #109 Gus

Welp, that’s all Bob Cesca did too.

Sorry, I’ve been lost in the code all day. Bob Cesca said what now?

119 Gus  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 6:43:32pm

re: #118 Charles Johnson

Sorry, I’ve been lost in the code all day. Bob Cesca said what now?

Started here.

120 Justanotherhuman  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 6:49:43pm

Why do grown men try to rip open the childhood wounds that festered for years by denying the right of the now grown victim to come to terms with the abuse s/he suffered?

121 TedStriker  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 6:50:38pm

re: #118 Charles Johnson

A little OT, but a problem nonetheless: I couldn’t log in to my account settings at all, yet I could obviously log in just fine to post. Using the My Account button when I click on my avatar or using the drop-down menu up top, I’d get this error message:

Unable to proceed: username/password not found!

Just now, I stumbled across a fix: right clicking on Account Settings to open it in a new tab works for some reason.

122 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 6:51:16pm

It turns out that missile that brought down an Egyptian helicopter in the Sinai wasn’t an SA-7. It was a more advanced model. It’s not good if Islamist terrorist are able to get their hands on those.

123 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 6:51:37pm

re: #120 Justanotherhuman

Why do grown men try to rip open the childhood wounds that festered for years by denying the right of the now grown victim to come to terms with the abuse s/he suffered?

Explain, please.

124 Gus  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 6:55:18pm
125 Gus  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 6:56:01pm
126 Justanotherhuman  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 6:56:42pm

re: #123 Dark_Falcon

Explain, please.

Well, considering the Bob Weide article, I thought it was self-explanatory.

127 Charles Johnson  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 6:57:26pm

re: #121 AlexRogan

A little OT, but a problem nonetheless: I couldn’t log in to my account settings at all, yet I could obviously log in just fine to post. Using the My Account button when I click on my avatar or using the drop-down menu up top, I’d get this error message:

Just now, I stumbled across a fix: right clicking on Account Settings to open it in a new tab works for some reason.

Should be fixed now if you reload.

128 Justanotherhuman  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 6:58:02pm

This looks awful…

129 TedStriker  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 7:04:15pm

re: #127 Charles Johnson

Should be fixed now if you reload.

It is…thanks.

130 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 7:05:47pm

re: #126 Justanotherhuman

Well, considering the Bob Weide article, I thought it was self-explanatory.

Sorry. But I’d ask that you not make it “grown men”, because not all men do that.

As for why Woody Allen’s defenders would do such a thing, they do it to keep Allen from being tarred as a pedophile. For a number of reasons, they want to make sure that charge doesn’t stick to him.

Frankly, I myself am inclined to believe it should in fact stick.

131 Gus  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 7:07:51pm

Argle bargle.

132 Political Atheist  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 7:10:48pm

re: #130 Dark_Falcon

Meh. The stronger the accusation the stronger the evidence should be. Divorce court testimony is often well, questionable. Edit-I wite it off as can’t tell from my chair. Do you recall the preschool case that ruined lives but was never proven? McMartin case I think.

133 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 7:13:04pm

re: #132 Political Atheist

Meh. The stronger the accusation the stronger the evidence should be. Divorce court testimony is often well, questionable.

Well, my mother believe the allegations to be true. She has, however, hated Woody Allen with a passion since he dumped Mia Farrow and married his stepdaughter. I freely admit the intensity of her conviction shapes my own opinion.

134 b_sharp  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 7:19:32pm

re: #125 Gus

[Embedded content]

Brilliant.

135 Pie-onist Overlord  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 7:22:14pm

This is really silly:
Who Would Win if Real Broncos Played Football Against Real Seahawks?

I have always thought that the “Seahawk” team name is not an actual bird, but a carved figure on a Native American totem pole.

So actual broncos could at least kick the ball downfield but a totem pole would have no way to pick up the ball and carry it into the end zone.

136 Kragar  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 7:24:52pm

Maximilian Schell died today.

137 Political Atheist  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 7:26:08pm

re: #135 Pie-onist Overlord

Well there is this Seahawk. :-)

Hawker Seahawk

138 Political Atheist  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 7:28:03pm

re: #133 Dark_Falcon

Well, my mother believe the allegations to be true. She has, however, hated Woody Allen with a passion since he dumped Mia Farrow and married his stepdaughter. I freely admit the intensity of her conviction shapes my own opinion.

+1 for respecting Mom

139 b_sharp  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 7:29:48pm

re: #137 Political Atheist

Well there is this Seahawk. :-)

Hawker Seahawk

Looks plastic.

140 TedStriker  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 7:30:58pm

re: #137 Political Atheist

Well there is this Seahawk. :-)

Hawker Seahawk

Damn, that looks pretty sexy.

141 sagehen  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 7:34:00pm

re: #73 ObserverArt

“Can you re-paint that sign?” Yes, I can (as a kid in high school I did some signs, always been a good ‘letterer.’ “I’ll make you a deal, you paint that sign, and give me $80 and that guitar is yours. Deal. Hell I didn’t know what it was and if it was worth anything. But $80 I didn’t really have and a sign that took me about 4 hours or so to redo, and I had my very first electric guitar. Couldn’t play a lick.

Anyway, years later I found out what I had was a really rare little Fender guitar. There isn’t even record of how many were built because it was a strange monster build project using all kinds of spare parts. Now at Gary’s I see it listed at $3595! Wow!!!

Link

The artist who painted the murals in the original Facebook office… instead of money they paid him with 1/2 of 1% of company stock. Set it aside, and continued with his lucrative (not!!) career as a graffiti artist. After the IPO, he’s got $250 million.

142 William Barnett-Lewis  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 7:36:28pm

re: #137 Political Atheist

Well there is this Seahawk. :-)

Hawker Seahawk

1st RN jet IIRC. Excellent mud mover for them & was quite effective during the Suez crisis. Pretty, though I always liked Hawker’s Hunter better for pure aesthetics.

143 Belafon  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 7:37:02pm
144 Kragar  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 7:38:54pm
145 Lidane  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 7:45:12pm
146 Targetpractice  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 7:46:25pm

re: #145 Lidane

[Embedded content]

Didn’t you know that Free Market Jesus was buddies with the money changers? And used to charge lepers and blind beggars after curing them?

147 Kragar  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 8:01:22pm

From the philosophy which brought you fugitive slave laws:

148 Targetpractice  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 8:04:43pm

re: #147 Kragar

From the philosophy which brought you fugitive slave laws:

[Embedded content]

Yes, it’s great to know that Republicans feel a woman’s right to choose to carry a rapist’s child to term is overridden by the rapist’s decision to control his victim’s life even behind bars.

149 RealityBasedSteve  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 8:09:04pm

re: #148 Targetpractice

Yes, it’s great to know that Republicans feel a woman’s right to choose to carry a rapist’s child to term is overridden by the rapist’s decision to control his victim’s life even behind bars.

It must be one of the easiest jobs in the world to be doing Opposition Research for the Dems right now. All they have to do is wait for a GOP member to open their mouth and start the recorder.

RBS

150 Kragar  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 8:09:34pm

re: #148 Targetpractice

Yes, it’s great to know that Republicans feel a woman’s right to choose to carry a rapist’s child to term is overridden by the rapist’s decision to control his victim’s life even behind bars.

“Well, this state says the rapist get to set the rules, so any state which says otherwise needs to just fall in line and play ball.”

What State’s rights always boil down to.

151 Targetpractice  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 8:11:06pm

re: #150 Kragar

“Well, this state says the rapist get to set the rules, so any state which says otherwise needs to just fall in line and play ball.”

What State’s rights always boil down to.

Ayep.

“I choose to live in a state that has strict gun laws!”
“Yeah, well I choose to buy guns in a state with loose ones and then drive them into the state with strict laws so I can sell them at a steep markup.”

152 Mattand  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 8:51:55pm

re: #147 Kragar

From the philosophy which brought you fugitive slave laws:

[Embedded content]

Is this really true?

I mean, I wouldn’t put it past the GOP, given how batshit they are about women and sex. But this would be out there, even for them.

153 Gus  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 9:04:31pm

Interesting seeing the reasons for the disgruntlement on Twitter. Apparently some of the Tweeps are annoyed of the negative coverage of Greenwald and Snowden.

154 Gus  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 9:10:19pm

10 PM and it’s dead everywhere. Twitter was totally freaky tonight. Must be cabin fever.

155 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 9:22:52pm

re: #152 Mattand

Is this really true?

I mean, I wouldn’t put it past the GOP, given how batshit they are about women and sex. But this would be out there, even for them.

It’s debatable, goes back about a year.

As much of the nation focuses on the Steubenville gang rape story, your failed Republican Vice Presidential candidate Paul Ryan (R-WI) was busy protecting rapists’ rights. Buried deep in the latest Fetus Rights Bill (aka, Sanctity of Human Life Act , H.R. 23: To provide that human life shall be deemed to begin with fertilization), wherein feti are given more rights than the women carrying them, is a section that will allow a rapist to sue his victim in order to stop her from getting an abortion, specifically if she were trying to get an abortion in a state that allows them while she lives in a state that does not.

Section 2(2) states, “The Congress affirms that the Congress, each State, the District of Columbia, and all United States territories have the authority to protect the lives of all human beings residing in its respective jurisdictions.”

Kevin Drum of Mother Jones summed up the impact of this intentionally vague subsection, “In fact, if this bill were passed and the Supreme Court upheld it, I’ll bet that a rapist could go to court and sue to prevent his victim from getting an abortion. He’d argue that the fetus was legally a human being, and the court has no power to discriminate between one human being and another. He’d probably win, too.”

Yes, the rapist can sue to stop the abortion caused by the rape he perpetrated upon an unwilling female. Laura Beck at Jezebel points out, “Her rapist could theoretically sue to stop the abortion from happening, and probably win.”

So, it’s shit legislation but the important bit is the proposed language, which basically amounts to a vague personhood amendment of sorts. However the analysts are going massively out on a limb with their “probably win” scenarios. They’re willing to assume the courts will okay a raft of crap to empower rapists, which the courts don’t exactly have any history of actually ever doing. There’s assumptions about prior restraint on a woman’s freedom of travel, when civil courts rarely and criminal courts almost never ever deal in such proscriptive measures. There’s assumptions that the courts will completely toss out Roe vs. Wade and there’s assumptions about rapists having standing to bring such suits in the first place.

In any even, Paul Ryan is trash whose intent is pretty obviously to increase abortion restrictions if not outlaw abortion entirely, but it’s not like he authored any language that explicitly referenced rapist fathers, or fathers at all for that matter.

156 Mattand  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 9:27:37pm

re: #155 goddamnedfrank

It’s debatable, goes back about a year.

IKevin Drum of Mother Jones summed up the impact of this intentionally vague subsection, “In fact, if this bill were passed and the Supreme Court upheld it, I’ll bet that a rapist could go to court and sue to prevent his victim from getting an abortion. He’d argue that the fetus was legally a human being, and the court has no power to discriminate between one human being and another. He’d probably win, too.”

Yes, the rapist can sue to stop the abortion caused by the rape he perpetrated upon an unwilling female. Laura Beck at Jezebel points out, “Her rapist could theoretically sue to stop the abortion from happening, and probably win.”

So, it’s shit legislation but the important bit is the proposed language, which basically amounts to a vague personhood amendment of sorts. However the analysts are going massively out on a limb with their “probably win” scenarios. They’re willing to assume the courts will okay a raft of crap to empower rapists, which the courts don’t exactly have any history of actually ever doing. There’s assumptions about prior restraint on a woman’s freedom of travel, when civil courts rarely and criminal courts almost never ever deal in such proscriptive measures. There’s assumptions that the courts will completely toss out Roe vs. Wade and there’s assumptions about rapists having standing to bring such suits in the first place.

In any even, Paul Ryan is trash whose intent is pretty obviously to increase abortion restrictions if not outlaw abortion entirely, but it’s not like he authored any language that explicitly referenced rapist fathers, or fathers at all for that matter.

Thanks. I was just coming here to link to that Mother Jones article.

157 austin_blue  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 10:04:14pm

re: #155 goddamnedfrank

It’s debatable, goes back about a year.

Kevin Drum of Mother Jones summed up the impact of this intentionally vague subsection, “In fact, if this bill were passed and the Supreme Court upheld it, I’ll bet that a rapist could go to court and sue to prevent his victim from getting an abortion. He’d argue that the fetus was legally a human being, and the court has no power to discriminate between one human being and another. He’d probably win, too.”

Yes, the rapist can sue to stop the abortion caused by the rape he perpetrated upon an unwilling female. Laura Beck at Jezebel points out, “Her rapist could theoretically sue to stop the abortion from happening, and probably win.”

So, it’s shit legislation but the important bit is the proposed language, which basically amounts to a vague personhood amendment of sorts. However the analysts are going massively out on a limb with their “probably win” scenarios. They’re willing to assume the courts will okay a raft of crap to empower rapists, which the courts don’t exactly have any history of actually ever doing. There’s assumptions about prior restraint on a woman’s freedom of travel, when civil courts rarely and criminal courts almost never ever deal in such proscriptive measures. There’s assumptions that the courts will completely toss out Roe vs. Wade and there’s assumptions about rapists having standing to bring such suits in the first place.

In any even, Paul Ryan is trash whose intent is pretty obviously to increase abortion restrictions if not outlaw abortion entirely, but it’s not like he authored any language that explicitly referenced rapist fathers, or fathers at all for that matter.

&&&

Ryan is an Opus Dei Catholic. This was the faith of my birth, but these people are fanatics. I became a former Catholic long ago because of the RCC’s attitude toward birth control. The modern incarnation of the Truly Conservative Catholic is pretty terrifying. The whole argument against providing birth control pills in the Affordable Healthcare Act is laughable.

It calls for *providing* the option in policies. It doesn’t require that they be used. It’s like saying that umbrellas cause rain.

158 Lidane  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 10:07:02pm

Because derp doesn’t just happen in politics:


Twitter is currently ZOMGELEVENTYWHAT over this. Personally, I would’ve matched him with Luna. Oh well. Heh.

159 sagehen  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 10:09:13pm

re: #158 Lidane

Because derp doesn’t just happen in politics:

[Embedded content]


Twitter is currently ZOMGELEVENTYWHAT over this. Personally, I would’ve matched him with Luna. Oh well. Heh.

But what about Ginny Weasley?

160 Targetpractice  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 10:13:27pm

re: #158 Lidane

Because derp doesn’t just happen in politics:

[Embedded content]


Twitter is currently ZOMGELEVENTYWHAT over this. Personally, I would’ve matched him with Luna. Oh well. Heh.

This is why I try to avoid shipping, because it just leads to disappointment in the end.

161 Lidane  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 10:14:45pm

re: #159 sagehen

But what about Ginny Weasley?

She was much more interesting in the books than in the films. The Ginny in the films is pretty much a cipher. It soured me on the character, sadly.

Harry and Ginny are basically James and Lily, Version 2.0. That’s why I liked Luna better. She was fun and a free spirit.

162 austin_blue  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 10:15:06pm

re: #158 Lidane

Because derp doesn’t just happen in politics:

[Embedded content]


Twitter is currently ZOMGELEVENTYWHAT over this. Personally, I would’ve matched him with Luna. Oh well. Heh.

I would have preferred a multi-cultural match with Cho Chang.

163 The War TARDIS  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 10:15:19pm

re: #160 Targetpractice

See Doctor Who fandom, for one.

Though the number of them is like a little fleet.

164 Lidane  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 10:16:38pm

re: #162 austin_blue

I would have preferred a multi-cultural match with Cho Chang.

True, but it would’ve been weird for them to end up together given that she’d been dating Cedric when he died.

165 Ming  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 10:17:41pm

re: #147 Kragar

You can’t make this stuff up!

166 The War TARDIS  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 10:17:53pm

re: #164 Lidane

I liked the way it turned out. :)

167 Eclectic Cyborg  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 10:19:16pm

Did I miss the RWNJ splodey heads over Sandra Fluke running for congress?

168 Kragar  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 10:21:23pm

re: #161 Lidane

She was much more interesting in the books than in the films. The Ginny in the films is pretty much a cipher. It soured me on the character, sadly.

Harry and Ginny are basically James and Lily, Version 2.0. That’s why I liked Luna better. She was fun and a free spirit.

Meanwhile, if the books had simply focused on the real hero of the story, Neville Longbottom would have defeated Voldemort by book 4

169 Targetpractice  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 10:22:09pm

re: #163 The War TARDIS

See Doctor Who fandom, for one.

Though the number of them is like a little fleet.

Hey now, the only person that counts is River. The rest were…nice to look at it, but that’s as far as it went.

170 Lidane  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 10:23:34pm

re: #160 Targetpractice

This is why I try to avoid shipping, because it just leads to disappointment in the end.

Haha, true. I like certain fandoms, but I don’t get so invested in them that I get into shipping wars. I just follow along for the fun.

171 Kragar  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 10:24:23pm

Meanwhile I’ve spent the last 2 weeks catching up on about 25 years of Judge Dredd comix

172 kirkspencer  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 10:24:42pm

re: #167 Eclectic Cyborg

Did I miss the RWNJ splodey heads over Sandra Fluke running for congress?

Last I saw she’s considering, not actually running. And that means they aren’t taking her seriously enough for splodey heads.

173 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 10:26:52pm

re: #158 Lidane

Because derp doesn’t just happen in politics:

[Embedded content]


Twitter is currently ZOMGELEVENTYWHAT over this. Personally, I would’ve matched him with Luna. Oh well. Heh.

In my opinion she probably should have avoided writing that stupid final chapter at all. Life is complicated, shit happens, how about leaving some room for imagination and ambiguity. And they all lived happily ever after shit is cheesy whether you specify how, with who, or not. It locked down a future that really didn’t need to be locked down at all.

174 austin_blue  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 10:28:15pm

re: #173 goddamnedfrank

In my opinion she probably should have avoided writing that stupid final chapter at all. Life is complicated, shit happens, how about leaving some room for imagination and ambiguity. And they all lived happily ever after shit is cheesy whether you specify how, with who, or not. It locked down a future that really didn’t need to be locked down at all.

People like closure. Fans demand it.

175 Lidane  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 10:30:54pm

re: #173 goddamnedfrank

In my opinion she probably should have avoided writing that stupid final chapter at all. Life is complicated, shit happens, how about leaving some room for imagination and ambiguity. And they all lived happily ever after shit is cheesy whether you specify how, with who, or not. It locked down a future that really didn’t need to be locked down at all.

Well, yeah. I wasn’t big on the epilogue but I can see why she did it. If she hadn’t said. “Here’s what happened to them all after Hogwarts” she would’ve been dogged with requests for a sequel series with Harry as an adult.

Personally, I could’ve done without it. Leaving the story with the threat of Voldemort gone forever and peace in the wizarding world was enough.

176 Targetpractice  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 10:32:20pm

re: #174 austin_blue

People like closure. Fans demand it.

Not to mention authors these days are increasingly take the time to write that last chapter or make that last episode because studios have been finding ways to rip creative control out from under them to keep the cash cow milk flowing. Really, Rowlings was better about it than some have been. Some decide to go Old Testament on their own creations in the final chapter.

177 RealityBasedSteve  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 10:32:32pm

Well gang, I’m off to bed. Catch you all later.

RBS

178 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 10:35:14pm

re: #174 austin_blue

People like closure. Fans demand it.

Personally I think Harry spent the next two decades drunk in Diagon Alley, bumping into strangers and belligerently yelling “I’M A BIG FUCKING DEAL!”

179 Lidane  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 10:36:22pm

re: #178 goddamnedfrank

Personally I think Harry spent the next two decades drunk in Diagon Alley, bumping into strangers and belligerently yelling “I’M A BIG FUCKING DEAL!”

Didn’t Daniel Radcliffe do that as a skit on SNL?

180 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 10:38:54pm

re: #179 Lidane

Didn’t Daniel Radcliffe do that as a skit on SNL?

Did he? Except for the Dick in a Box skit I haven’t seen SNL in at least a decade.

181 austin_blue  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 10:39:51pm

re: #178 goddamnedfrank

Personally I think Harry spent the next two decades drunk in Diagon Alley, bumping into strangers and belligerently yelling “I’M A BIG FUCKING DEAL!”

Creating bit coin and buying really good single malt…

182 goddamnedfrank  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 10:43:22pm

It also seems kind of artificial how everyone paired off and had kids. It was good of her to make Dumbledore gay, but wasn’t he the only one? No divorces, second marriages, nobody lone wolfed it?

I know, it’s a book … nobody wants to hear about Percy Weasley’s devastating erectile dysfunction.

183 Lidane  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 10:45:00pm

re: #180 goddamnedfrank

Did he? Except for the Dick in a Box skit I haven’t seen SNL in at least a decade.

Ha! I couldn’t remember for sure so I checked. Yes, he totally did:

perezhilton.com

184 Varek Raith  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 10:47:07pm

Good evening/morning/whathaveyou.

185 Targetpractice  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 10:47:16pm

Personally think it’s telling that there’s actually a trope at TvTropes called “Torch The Franchise And Run” with examples of creators who, for one reason or another, lit their own creations aflame in the end just to make sure nobody could come behind them and try to revive the cash cow.

186 Varek Raith  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 10:50:33pm

re: #185 Targetpractice

Personally think it’s telling that there’s actually a trope at TvTropes called “Torch The Franchise And Run” with examples of creators who, for one reason or another, lit their own creations aflame in the end just to make sure nobody could come behind them and try to revive the cash cow.

Dinosaurs comes to mind.
That ending, yeesh.

187 Gus  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 10:51:24pm
188 Targetpractice  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 10:51:51pm

re: #186 Varek Raith

Dinosaurs comes to mind.
That ending, yeesh.

I always end up thinking of End of Evangelion, or what happens when the creator goes off his meds and dedicates 2 hours to screaming “Fuck you!” at the fans.

189 Varek Raith  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 10:53:20pm

re: #188 Targetpractice

I always end up thinking of End of Evangelion, or what happens when the creator goes off his meds and dedicates 2 hours to screaming “Fuck you!” at the fans.

God, that series made me hate Shinji like I’ve never hated a protagonist before.

190 Varek Raith  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 10:56:47pm

Why is Mitt the front-runner in NH for 2016 nomination???

191 Targetpractice  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 10:57:50pm

re: #190 Varek Raith

Why is Mitt the front-runner in NH for 2016 nomination???

Apparently nobody informed them yet that he lost over a year ago.

192 Lidane  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 10:58:43pm

re: #190 Varek Raith

Why is Mitt the front-runner in NH for 2016 nomination???

Because Christie is imploding and the RWNJs haven’t decided which lunatic they’re going to follow over the cliff yet.

193 Targetpractice  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 11:00:52pm

re: #192 Lidane

Because Christie is imploding and the RWNJs haven’t decided which lunatic they’re going to follow over the cliff yet.

Josh Marshall pretty much wrote the obituary on Christie’s presidential ambitions last night. Even if Christie should turn out innocent, the investigations are not going to end anytime soon. And so long as they hang above his head, he’s toxic to any of the big names in campaign funds. If Wildstein is telling the truth and there’s enough to prove Christie was in on the whole deal? Screw the presidency, he’ll be lucky if he doesn’t go to jail.

194 Varek Raith  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 11:02:47pm

If Mitt runs again I will eat my pc.

195 Lidane  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 11:13:42pm

re: #186 Varek Raith

Dinosaurs comes to mind.
That ending, yeesh.

196 Gus  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 11:26:43pm

197 sagehen  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 11:31:51pm

re: #169 Targetpractice

Hey now, the only person that counts is River. The rest were…nice to look at it, but that’s as far as it went.

Amy and Rory were were the greatest love story ever told.

198 sagehen  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 11:35:57pm

re: #185 Targetpractice

Personally think it’s telling that there’s actually a trope at TvTropes called “Torch The Franchise And Run” with examples of creators who, for one reason or another, lit their own creations aflame in the end just to make sure nobody could come behind them and try to revive the cash cow.

Not mentioned in that tvtropes entry, but the first one I thought of was Forever Knight — the terrible, horrible, no-good very bad ending didn’t just preclude sequels, it destroyed any possible enjoyment of reruns.

199 Lidane  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 11:39:58pm

re: #198 sagehen

Not mentioned in that tvtropes entry, but the first one I thought of was Forever Knight — the terrible, horrible, no-good very bad ending didn’t just preclude sequels, it destroyed any possible enjoyment of reruns.

Forever Knight is mentioned here. Seems fitting from the description of the ending.

200 Targetpractice  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 11:48:34pm

re: #198 sagehen

Not mentioned in that tvtropes entry, but the first one I thought of was Forever Knight — the terrible, horrible, no-good very bad ending didn’t just preclude sequels, it destroyed any possible enjoyment of reruns.

To be fair, the trope deals with cases where the creator(s) decided to burn everything to the ground on purpose to prevent the series from continuing. I’m not sure that’s the case with Forever Knight, though considering it was saved twice with letter campaigns, it might have been a case of Execs saying “Drag the series through equal parts broken glass and salt up until the last episode, and then douse it with gasoline and strike a match to make sure we never have to deal with it again.”

201 Gus  Sat, Feb 1, 2014 11:53:58pm
202 Lidane  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 12:01:01am
203 Gus  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 12:02:42am
204 Targetpractice  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 12:05:52am

re: #202 Lidane

[Embedded content]

So FNC is #1 because they appeal to the viewer demographic that’s most likely to fall asleep in front of their TVs. Surprise, surprise.

205 Varek Raith  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 12:25:51am

re: #204 Targetpractice

So FNC is #1 because they appeal to the viewer demographic that’s most likely to fall asleep in front of their TVs. Surprise, surprise.

Get off my lawn.

206 freetoken  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 12:32:55am

re: #190 Varek Raith

Why is Mitt the front-runner in NH for 2016 nomination???

Maybe Mitt Romney is the Omega Republican - the last GOP candidate?

207 freetoken  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 1:20:34am

MP3 Audio

208 ObserverArt  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 3:42:14am

Well, looks like not much activity for some time.

Anyway…good morning and Happy Groundhog Day!

The big celebration going on today…especially for those in the cold climes of the east. Around here in central Ohio…not a chance for the furry one to see his shadow. Let’s hope tradition holds.

(What game???) : )

209 Justanotherhuman  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 4:11:30am

Going to be following this guy’s twitter for a while since Max will be out of Ukraine for 3 wks. Visit and see the colorful helmets, too. @jc_stubbs

About the revolutionary pianist…


Rally going on in Kiev today. Youtube Video

210 ObserverArt  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 4:19:00am

re: #209 Justanotherhuman

Going to be following this guy’s twitter for a while since Max will be out of Ukraine for 3 wks. Visit and see the colorful helmets, too. @jc_stubbs

About the revolutionary pianist…

[Embedded content]


Rally going on in Kiev today. [Embedded content]

Piano? Pffffssshhhh…where are the drum circles???

/

211 Justanotherhuman  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 4:31:29am

Called out. Yeah.

Academy cites integrity in pulling Oscar song nod

bigstory.ap.org

Watch the trailer for this fucking POS piece of propaganda. Native Americans as utter savages! We will take your land and blame you at the same time! How dare you fight back! We’re white and we’re right!

Youtube Video

Wasn’t this schtick done a lot better as the 1992 release, “The Last of the Mohicans”?

Besides, the music is pretty pedestrian, as most Academy nominations tend to be, but you will nod off to this one.

Youtube Video

212 Backwoods_Sleuth  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 4:34:35am

Currently 50F and raining here, but NWS has issued a Winter Storm Warning for 4 p.m. today until 10 a.m. tomorrow, with 3-5 inches of snow in the forecast.

I have had just about enough of this crap…

213 Justanotherhuman  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 4:34:36am

Ah, shit.

Groundhog handlers say Punxsutawney Phil saw his shadow, forecasting 6 more weeks of winter - @AP
end of alert

214 Justanotherhuman  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 5:03:37am
215 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 5:16:21am

re: #155 goddamnedfrank

Thank you for the clarity on that one, Frank.

216 ObserverArt  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 5:28:32am

re: #213 Justanotherhuman

Ah, shit.

Groundhog handlers say Punxsutawney Phil saw his shadow, forecasting 6 more weeks of winter - @AP
end of alert

Dylan Dreyer on The Today Show took exception with that forecast. She said the conditions in Punxsutawney are cloudy with fog and mist…so no way he saw his shadow. She claimed all the lights for the TV Cameras and a big spotlight above the platform were the culprits. Phil’s a media hack!!!

217 Decatur Deb  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 5:37:06am

re: #216 ObserverArt

Dylan Dreyer on The Today Show took exception with that forecast. She said the conditions in Punxsutawney are cloudy with fog and mist…so no way he saw his shadow. She claimed all the lights for the TV Cameras and a big spotlight above the platform were the culprits. Phil’s a media hack!!!

If he sees his shadow under artificial light, we get 6 more weeks of geo-engineered government snow.

218 Backwoods_Sleuth  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 5:38:27am
219 Justanotherhuman  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 5:40:04am

EuroMaidan rallies in Ukraine (Feb. 1-2 live updates)

kyivpost.com

Photo caption: A crowd estimated at 30,000 people are rallying on Independence Square in Kyiv today, continuing the traditional Sunday rallies that have marked the anti-government EuroMaidan protests since their start on Nov. 21. This is the 11th consecutive Sunday rally designed to oust President Viktor Yanukovych.

Yeah, they want him gone. It won’t be over until he is.

220 Pie-onist Overlord  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 5:46:02am

WTFITS

221 Pie-onist Overlord  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 6:00:24am
222 chadu  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 6:08:19am

re: #19 b.d.

Now some made up currency that is produced from unicorn turds is just fine and dandy?

I regret, one upding, etc.

223 Pie-onist Overlord  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 6:14:13am

WTFITS
Bryan is such a shithead.

224 Pie-onist Overlord  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 6:15:27am

Going to the swimming pool now. Let’s see if I can get my car out of the driveway.

225 chadu  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 6:21:17am

re: #155 goddamnedfrank

So, it’s shit legislation but the important bit is the proposed language, which basically amounts to a vague personhood amendment of sorts.

Methinks most of the problems with these sorts of messed up RWNJ bills follows a pattern:

1. Muddy and/or cloistered thinking (don’t take into account ramifications of proposal).
2. Really poorly worded legislation, which exacerbates #1.
3. DOUBLE DOWN! or OUTRAGE/REDIRECT! when ramifications stemming from #1 and #2 are pointed out.

YMMV.

226 Justanotherhuman  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 6:23:29am

Feb. 2, 3:20 p.m. — Around 5,000 people are at Hrushevskoho Street right now — the scene of a sometimes violent standoff between police and protesters since Jan. 19. Many activists are moving there after opposition leaders finished speaking. It’s quiet there with the loudspeakers on the protesters side transmitting news and calls to the police to change sides and be with the people. Loud pop music is blaring back from the police side. — Vlad Lavrov

kyivpost.com

227 chadu  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 6:24:31am

re: #158 Lidane

Because derp doesn’t just happen in politics:
[Embedded content]

Paged that.

littlegreenfootballs.com

Twitter is currently ZOMGELEVENTYWHAT over this. Personally, I would’ve matched him with Luna. Oh well. Heh.

I love you and want to have your mutant babies. (Please post that in comments on my Page!)

EXACTLY!

The only other pairing I could see for Luna would be with Neville — which, I think, would be kinda awesome.

228 chadu  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 6:25:28am

re: #159 sagehen

But what about Ginny Weasley?

My grandparents were a Harry/Ginny match-up in real life, and it dint work dat way.

Thumbs down.

229 chadu  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 6:29:39am

re: #168 Kragar

Meanwhile, if the books had simply focused on the real hero of the story, Neville Longbottom would have defeated Voldemort by book 4

I hold that Neville is the hero, and that Rowling doesn’t get it.

Just one ferinstance: Neville tracks much closer to the “zero to hero” trope than Harry does.

Harry is immediately popular, wealthy, decent at magic, and most of the teachers like him.

Neville’s clumsy, middle-class, lame at magic (because he’s not using a wand made/selected for him; what a freaking ball to drop/forget, JK!), and everybody thinks of him as a doof in one way or another.

…

I have feels. And opinions.

230 chadu  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 6:30:24am

re: #173 goddamnedfrank

In my opinion she probably should have avoided writing that stupid final chapter at all. Life is complicated, shit happens, how about leaving some room for imagination and ambiguity. And they all lived happily ever after shit is cheesy whether you specify how, with who, or not. It locked down a future that really didn’t need to be locked down at all.

I regret, upding, etc.

231 Dr Lizardo  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 6:36:33am

re: #173 goddamnedfrank

In my opinion she probably should have avoided writing that stupid final chapter at all. Life is complicated, shit happens, how about leaving some room for imagination and ambiguity. And they all lived happily ever after shit is cheesy whether you specify how, with who, or not. It locked down a future that really didn’t need to be locked down at all.

“Did they live happily ever after? They did not. No one ever does, in spite of what the stories may say. They had their good days, as you do, and they had their bad days, and you know about those. They had their victories, as you do, and they had their defeats, and you know about those, too. There were times when they felt ashamed of themselves, knowing they had not done their best, and there were times when they knew they had stood where their God had meant them to stand. All I’m trying to say is that they lived as well as they could.”

-Stephen King, The Eyes Of The Dragon

232 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 6:50:35am

re: #225 chadu

So, it’s shit legislation but the important bit is the proposed language, which basically amounts to a vague personhood amendment of sorts. H

Methinks most of the problems with these sorts of messed up RWNJ bills follows a pattern:

1. Muddy and/or cloistered thinking (don’t take into account ramifications of proposal).
2. Really poorly worded legislation, which exacerbates #1.
3. >DOUBLE DOWN! or >OUTRAGE/REDIRECT! when ramifications stemming from #1 and #2 are pointed out.

YMMV.

The thing with that particular bill is that to write it “tightly” would be to create a bill that would suffer one or more of the following problems:

1. Couldn’t pass the Senate. It’d get election year support from Dems in the South and Far West (as well as from Sen. Casey of Pennsylvania), but Senators Kirk and Collins (Republicans from Illinois and Maine, respectively) would oppose it. The bill would never get 60 votes and thus would fall to a fillibuster.

2. Would have to conform to Roe vs. Wade. A law that was clear but also a violation of Roe would be DOA when it got to court.

3. Would hand liberals a brick with which to beat its authors. A vaguely written law in this matter pleases its supporters without giving its detractors too much room to make effective attacks.

As GDF pointed out, some of the attacks on this bill have rested on pretty shaky foundations and seem intended to whip liberals into a frenzy. As we have seen from the opposite side of the field, that is useful in mobilizing a party’s base, but highly questionable conclusions also leave attackers vulnerable to criticism that they are being unrealistic or worse yet it leads to members of the attackers’ movement going too far and beclowning themselves. Its hard to deliver an effective criticism when it looks like your attack force was driven to its starting position by a fleet of clown cars.

233 A Mom Anon  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 7:02:06am

re: #232 Dark_Falcon

After the recent fiasco in TX, where a dead woman was kept as some sort of decaying incubator for a fetus that was never going to be viable, ever, I don’t have much faith that the hole in this law and it’s purposeful vagueness wouldn’t have a big old Right To Life truck driven right through it. Rapists have already been given parental rights, and can sue in 31 states to exercise those rights. If you think that preventing an abortion after rape won’t get used in court you’re naïve at best.

These damned laws shouldn’t even be up for debate or written in the first damned place. This is between women and their doctors, PERIOD. If men could get pregnant these points would be moot. I wonder what the chorus would be singing if laws were passed forcing rapists to pay the top amount allowed for child support?

234 Eventual Carrion  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 7:02:07am

re: #231 Dr Lizardo

“Did they live happily ever after? They did not. No one ever does, in spite of what the stories may say. They had their good days, as you do, and they had their bad days, and you know about those. They had their victories, as you do, and they had their defeats, and you know about those, too. There were times when they felt ashamed of themselves, knowing they had not done their best, and there were times when they knew they had stood where their God had meant them to stand. All I’m trying to say is that they lived as well as they could.”

-Stephen King, The Eyes Of The Dragon

I was surprised when I came across this book at a flea market a year or so ago. I hadn’t known King did a fantasy type book, was just used to the horror. I liked it.

235 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 7:05:03am

re: #232 Dark_Falcon

The thing with that particular bill is that to write it “tightly” would be to create a bill that would suffer one or more of the following problems:

1. Couldn’t pass the Senate. It’d get election year support from Dems in the South and Far West (as well as from Sen. Casey of Pennsylvania), but Senators Kirk and Collins (Republicans from Illinois and Maine, respectively) would oppose it. The bill would never get 60 votes and thus would fall to a fillibuster.

Totally moot. Ryan couldn’t even get his bill out of his GOP controlled House subcommittee, it was that bad.

236 Dr Lizardo  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 7:09:38am

re: #234 Eventual Carrion

I was surprised when I came across this book at a flea market a year or so ago. I hadn’t known King did a fantasy type book, was just used to the horror. I liked it.

Danse Macabre is one of my favorite King books, and it’s non-fiction; it’s a survey of the horror genre in popular culture.

“If we are all insane, then all insanity becomes a matter of degree. If your insanity leads you to carve up women like Jack the Ripper or the Cleveland Torso Murderer, we clap you away in the funny farm (except neither of those two amateur-night surgeons were ever caught, heh-heh-heh); if, on the other hand, your insanity leads you only to talk to yourself when you’re under stress or to pick your nose on your morning bus, then you are left alone to go about your business…although it’s doubtful that you will ever be invited to the best parties. “

- Stephen King, Danse Macabre

237 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 7:09:56am

re: #235 goddamnedfrank

Totally moot. Ryan couldn’t even get his bill out of his GOP controlled House subcommittee, it was that bad.

Strictly speaking, the bill covered HeLa cells, because they’re “human beings,” they have a human genome and they exist, independently.

238 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 7:12:51am

re: #237 goddamnedfrank

Strictly speaking, the bill covered HeLa cells, because they’re “human beings,” they have a human genome and they exist.

Hence why it never got out of committee, or at least part of why. It was so vague that it would have threatened key research and that would have been unacceptable to pharma companies.

239 ObserverArt  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 7:15:40am

Ohio’s groundhog weather prognosticator Buckeye Chuck says…no shadow, early spring. I hope Chuck is right. Just saw him on the local news lazily hanging out in his cage before the cameras in Marion Ohio. It was a deep grey sky spitting big wet snow flakes and Chuck wouldn’t even pop out of the straw to look at the viewers.

He also says expect the same or more political craziness over the next year due to 2014 mid-term elections. I think we’d all agree with that one. Chuck knows much about congress critters. Many are large rat-like hole-diggers just like him.

240 goddamnedfrank  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 7:23:22am

After thinking about it for a bit, another odd thing about the Harry Potter denouement, nobody shacked up with a muggle.

Really? After writing all that shit about defeating the Death Eaters and their nazi philosophy emphasizing pure blood nobody deigns to go out and fuck a muggle? Or even a squib.

I kind of think that the most human thing about love is that there’s no real accounting for taste. Opposites often do attract, which I’m assuming was the initial motivation for Ron and Hermione.

Whatever.

241 sagehen  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 7:23:34am

re: #231 Dr Lizardo

“Did they live happily ever after? They did not. No one ever does, in spite of what the stories may say. They had their good days, as you do, and they had their bad days, and you know about those. They had their victories, as you do, and they had their defeats, and you know about those, too. There were times when they felt ashamed of themselves, knowing they had not done their best, and there were times when they knew they had stood where their God had meant them to stand. All I’m trying to say is that they lived as well as they could.”

-Stephen King, The Eyes Of The Dragon

If you want a happy ending, that depends, of course, on where you stop your story.
Mozzie, “White Collar”

242 Mattand  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 7:26:19am

It’s a good thing Chuck didn’t pull that crap around here in the South Jersey/Philly area.

We’re apparently supposed to get 4-6 inches of snow tomorrow, according to Accuweather.

What the hell, Mother Nature???

243 Backwoods_Sleuth  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 7:31:12am

re: #242 Mattand

It’s a good thing Chuck didn’t pull that crap around here in the South Jersey/Philly area.

We’re apparently supposed to get 4-6 inches of snow tomorrow, according to Accuweather.

What the hell, Mother Nature???

My forecast just got changed from 3-5 inches of snow to 3-7 inches, with freezing rain before it turns into said snow…

Just kill me now…

244 ObserverArt  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 7:35:19am

re: #242 Mattand

It’s a good thing Chuck didn’t pull that crap around here in the South Jersey/Philly area.

We’re apparently supposed to get 4-6 inches of snow tomorrow, according to Accuweather.

What the hell, Mother Nature???

Chucks from Ohio. He’s a regional forecaster. You are in Punxsutawney Phil’s area, so you have to go with his media hack fake prediction of six more weeks of winter. Sorry.

Everyone needs to check with their own local groundhog, woodchuck, whistle-pig, land beaver or fuzzy marmot of choice. Just like we are all represented by our own district’s congress-critter.

245 ObserverArt  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 7:38:45am

re: #243 Backwoods_Sleuth

My forecast just got changed from 3-5 inches of snow to 3-7 inches, with freezing rain before it turns into said snow…

Just kill me now…

Damn, your forecast is worse than here in the Columbus area. Mom’s a bit fickle this year. Hang in there Sleuth.

246 Please Proceed  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 7:40:04am

Does anyone know if there is a football game today?

247 ObserverArt  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 7:43:02am

re: #246 Iwouldprefernotto

Does anyone know if there is a football game today?

There might be a bit of one in between the commercials.

248 NJDhockeyfan  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 7:46:43am

re: #246 Iwouldprefernotto

Does anyone know if there is a football game today?

Yes and don’t forget the bacon!

249 Dr Lizardo  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 7:47:34am

re: #247 ObserverArt

There might be a bit of one in between the commercials.

Heh - that reminds me of a quote I once read years ago, calling the Summer Olympics (as broadcast on NBC) a “multi-day Snickers commercial occasionally interrupted by a sporting event.”

250 Ryan King  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 7:48:23am

Any Excel gurus? I want to do something cool:


Have a column on the left side that can be seen on multiple sheets.

Enter Client in column A, maybe some notes in column B (if can).

Create two spreadsheets where Column A is visible and active in both.

Possible? Unpossible? IllPossible?

251 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 7:49:57am

re: #240 goddamnedfrank

After thinking about it for a bit, another odd thing about the Harry Potter denouement, nobody shacked up with a muggle.

Really? After writing all that shit about defeating the Death Eaters and their nazi philosophy emphasizing pure blood nobody deigns to go out and fuck a muggle? Or even a squib.

I kind of think that the most human thing about love is that there’s no real accounting for taste. Opposites often do attract, which I’m assuming was the initial motivation for Ron and Hermione.

Whatever.

Those who end up together were those who had gone to school together and had fought the Death Eaters together. They shared a bond they wouldn’t have with others outside that circle.

Though its also worth speculating on how those wizards who fought in and survived the final battle against the Death-Eaters dealt with it. I’d wager the Ministry of Magic had to help set up a special group within the National Health Service to deal with the likely cases of PTSD and other mental illnesses.

252 Skip Intro  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 7:51:32am

re: #174 austin_blue

People like closure. Fans demand it.

Could have been another book.

253 NJDhockeyfan  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 7:51:38am

re: #249 Dr Lizardo

Heh - that reminds me of a quote I once read years ago, calling the Summer Olympics (as broadcast on NBC) a “multi-day Snickers commercial occasionally interrupted by a sporting event.”

I’m a bit disappointed on the Olympic coverage this year. The summer Olympics had a 3D channel which was awesome. The gymnastics were great to watch as well as the open and closing ceremonies.

254 Mattand  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 7:52:13am

re: #247 ObserverArt

There might be a bit of one in between the commercials.

The commercials are generally the only thing I care about. And since most of them have moved to the web the day before, I have even less interest.

255 Mattand  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 7:53:40am

re: #244 ObserverArt

Chucks from Ohio. He’s a regional forecaster. You are in Punxsutawney Phil’s area, so you have to go with his media hack fake prediction of six more weeks of winter. Sorry.

Everyone needs to check with their own local groundhog, woodchuck, whistle-pig, land beaver or fuzzy marmot of choice. Just like we are all represented by our own district’s congress-critter.

LOL, Phil’s about 6 hours from here. He’s basically in OH, from our perspective.

One of these days I’m gonna try to go see a Phillies-Pirates game at PNC Park.

256 Skip Intro  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 7:55:55am

re: #220 Pie-onist Overlord

WTFITS

[Embedded content]

That’s one incredibly stupid tweet, even for a dimwit like Bryan. Let’s get rid of food stamps and welfare completely and return that money to the 1%. That’s the way to save WalMart.

257 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 7:59:00am

BBL

258 chadu  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 8:00:01am

re: #240 goddamnedfrank

After thinking about it for a bit, another odd thing about the Harry Potter denouement, nobody shacked up with a muggle.

Really? After writing all that shit about defeating the Death Eaters and their nazi philosophy emphasizing pure blood nobody deigns to go out and fuck a muggle?

Yup. And Hermione being a mudblood and all…

259 Dave In Austin  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 8:00:05am

The Start….
First you rub the Meat……

260 Political Atheist  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 8:05:04am

So to try and get into the spirit today I watched “Invincible” last night. What a delight that film is. Marl Wahlberg, Greg Kinnear and the button cute Elizabeth Banks. Imagine that a date friendly football movie. Alas still not all that into the game. Good excuse to go all foodie today though!

261 A Mom Anon  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 8:10:14am

Gotta take the kid back to school in a bit. The Husband has graciously decided he wanted a deli tray for dinner so I am off the hook for making chicken tenders and the like (he’s diabetic with heart disease thrown in for fun, so no bacon trophies and wings and crap here). Yay. Means I can spend a little more time up at school with the kid before saying good bye for a couple weeks.

Later, happy feetball day peoples.

262 makeitstop  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 8:11:18am

re: #243 Backwoods_Sleuth

My forecast just got changed from 3-5 inches of snow to 3-7 inches, with freezing rain before it turns into said snow…

Just kill me now…

It’s flirting with 50 degrees here currently, but we’re supposed to get 2-4 inches of snow tonight and then more on Tuesday night.

Being whipsawed, we are.

263 Decatur Deb  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 8:15:40am

re: #259 Dave In Austin

The Start….
First you rub the Meat……
[Embedded image]

Not at BYU-Idaho.

264 chadu  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 8:20:58am

O/T

trollheaven.com

Thought A: Number 3, please!

Thought B: Where’s the male version of this pic?

Thought C: I’d be Number 6* on a male version.

* I am not a number; I am a free man!

(How do I change the font size?)

Oh, dear Gob, DON’T READ THE COMMENTS!

265 NJDhockeyfan  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 8:27:22am
266 Ryan King  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 8:33:45am

I’ve noticed CNS News has reposted the ‘story’ of when Richard Sherman got punched in the face.

Thug is the new niCLANG. No doubt about it.

267 Backwoods_Sleuth  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 8:39:33am
268 NJDhockeyfan  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 8:41:24am

Is this a threat by the Russian FM?

Russian FM threatens Euronews on Ukraine reporting

Russian FM Lavrov in Munich Friday criticised the Euronews broadcaster for running a headline, based on leaks, which said a Ukrainian activist was “tortured by Russians.” He noted: “I would be very cautious about leakages, even from such a respected channel as Euronews, where Russia has 17% of the shares.”

269 Stanley Sea  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 8:44:21am

Ha

270 Eclectic Cyborg  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 8:44:30am

re: #268 NJDhockeyfan

Is this a threat by the Russian FM?

Russian FM threatens Euronews on Ukraine reporting

“Nice TV station you got here…”

271 Eclectic Cyborg  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 8:45:26am

re: #264 chadu

I’m with you on number #3. Since when did curvy women become undesirable? Makes no sense.

I loves me some curves.

272 chadu  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 8:50:39am

re: #271 Eclectic Cyborg

I’m with you on number #3. Since when did curvy women become undesirable? Makes no sense.

I loves me some curves.

Agreed.

But that’s just the meat-gown: what’s desirable/sexy is THE BRAIN.

(And not in the zombie nom nom nom sense!)

273 Political Atheist  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 8:52:16am

re: #271 Eclectic Cyborg

They say the fashion/ad biz makes these standards. I’m not sure straight women or gay men are the best judges of what a woman should look like in print to attract a man. I could be wrong.

274 Justanotherhuman  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 8:54:03am

“This Moscow today. Thank bratyuni.” (Google transl)

275 RealityBasedSteve  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 8:55:40am

The ribs have my dry rub on them and are just being happy, stocked up on soda / pretzels / ‘tater salad. Easy chair carefully adjusted. Ready for the game.

RBS

276 GlutenFreeJesus  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 8:55:41am

re: #269 Stanley Sea

Ha

Love that pic even though it’s taken out if context. The kid that drew it was trying to show how to make $ while shoveling snow. lol

277 Backwoods_Sleuth  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 8:57:57am
278 Eclectic Cyborg  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 9:01:47am

re: #277 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

Anyone know where Chris Christie is this morning?

/

279 Eclectic Cyborg  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 9:02:22am

re: #272 chadu

Agreed.

But that’s just the meat-gown: what’s desirable/sexy is THE BRAIN.

(And not in the zombie nom nom nom sense!)

Agreed, I don’t think I could handle a relationship with a girl I had no intellectual/emotional compatibility with, even if she was smoking hot.

280 Justanotherhuman  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 9:02:23am

Zaporozhye today. Rally in support of Yanukovych. (Google transl)


Gotta laugh…

281 Eclectic Cyborg  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 9:03:08am

re: #280 Justanotherhuman

Zaporozhye today. Rally in support of Yanukovych. (Google transl)

[Embedded content]


Gotta laugh…

Reminds me of the Washington Tea Party protests here at home.

282 darthstar  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 9:07:33am

Great article on Slate about how the US media would report the Superbowl if it occurred in other countries.

slate.com

The two finest teams from the nation’s 32 premier league squads meet each year in an event known as the Super Bowl. (There is in fact no bowl.) This year, the game pits a young upstart team from the Northwest Frontier Provinces against another from the mountainous interior region led by the aging scion of one of the sport’s most legendary families. The winner of the contest will claim the title of “world champion,” although very few people play the sport beyond the country’s national borders.

Although the rules are complex—this video offers a brief overview—in broad strokes the contest involves two large teams of large men wearing large amounts of protective padding attempting to move an oblong ball down a 91.44-meter field by either throwing it or running with it while their opponents attempt to knock them to the ground with maximum force.

While the competition can last for more than three hours, actual playing time is no more than about 11 minutes.

283 Political Atheist  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 9:07:54am

Wow. Even for this guy this is way the hell out there.

“I’m sorry, but this is the problem with the gun debate is that it’s a constant center-right debate. There’s no left in this debate. Everyone on the left is so afraid to say what should be said which is, ‘The Second Amendment is bulls—-,’” Maher said at the time.

Read more: politico.com

Okay so according to Bill Maher the proper left argument about guns is just up and take away a SCOTUS confirmed individual right. straight out of the Constitution. I’d submit he abuses the first amendment like a gangbanger abuses the second. Shall we yank that too? How about the 4th? Or 5th?

Bill’s logic-Diseased and defenseless is the proper shape of the American population. Got it.

284 Eclectic Cyborg  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 9:10:04am

There’s nothing wrong with the Second Amendment, it’s how that amendment is perceived and executed that creates problems.

Case in point: The fact the RWNJs always seem to ignore the “well regulated militia” part.

There are many countries where you can legally own guns, but few that have the kind of gun culture the U.S. does.

285 Justanotherhuman  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 9:11:14am
286 Ryan King  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 9:12:10am

‘Well regulated militia’ does not mean idiots hoarding assault weapons or open carry.

The 2nd is interpreted as ‘I can have anything I want at any time because.’

287 Justanotherhuman  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 9:13:04am

Feb. 2, 6:35 p.m. — Ukrainian opposition lawmaker Petro Poroshenko has said that Shevchenkivsky District Court of Kyiv has closed proceedings on a case against Automaidan leader, Dmytro Bulatov.

“I just got the court resolution. Bulatov is free. So he can go now with me to the airport and receive treatment abroad,” Poroshenko said, while leaving Borys private hospital where Bulatov receives treatment. Earlier Automaidan leader was suspected of taking part in a riot which carries a maximum 15-year prison sentence, then police wanted him under house arrest. — Olena Goncharova

kyivpost.com

288 Political Atheist  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 9:21:03am

re: #284 Eclectic Cyborg

Each and every right comes with responsibilities. Mr Mahr forgets that about the first. The vast majority of us remember our responsibilities under the 2nd. Under the law as defined by the court, the militia is not a requirement and the Feds have the right to regulate as does the states. As shown & upheld in court time and time again. Hundreds, arguably thousands of federal state & local gun laws have held up to legal scrutiny. We don’t have to join a militia or the military to own a gun for any legal purpose. That would be a rather blatant poison pill in current times. Think single women in high crime areas or subsistence hunters.

I totally agree with regulating, even in a relatively strict way as California does. Suggesting we just do away with fundamental passages of the constitution as the only proper way the left side of politics should address the issue is what is utterly indefensible.

289 Mattand  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 9:22:45am

re: #283 Political Atheist

re: #284 Eclectic Cyborg

re: #286 Ryan King

‘Well regulated militia’ does not mean idiots hoarding assault weapons or open carry.

The 2nd is interpreted as ‘I can have anything I want at any time because.’

Maher has stated on many occasions that the 2nd Amendment needs “a Page One re-write.” Explicitly for the reason Ryan King states.

And as I’ve complained multiple times before, the 2nd Amendment was written when getting off two accurate shots in a minute made you John McClain from Die Hard.

The 2nd Amendment needs to reflect an America where you can go to a gun show and drive away with a fucking arsenal in your trunk.

290 Mattand  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 9:23:30am

re: #286 Ryan King

‘Well regulated militia’ does not mean idiots hoarding assault weapons or open carry.

The 2nd is interpreted as ‘I can have anything I want at any time because.’

I would up vote this until my mouse exploded, if I could.

291 Ryan King  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 9:24:15am

How the 2nd is written:

A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

How the 2nd is interpreted:

A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

292 Justanotherhuman  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 9:28:47am

re: #291 Ryan King

How the 2nd is written:

How the 2nd is interpreted:

They just ignore what they don’t like.

293 Political Atheist  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 9:33:40am

re: #286 Ryan King

‘Well regulated militia’ does not mean idiots hoarding assault weapons or open carry.

The 2nd is interpreted as ‘I can have anything I want at any time because.’

re: #289 Mattand

The law is not interpreted as you say by the legal system. There is no need to re work the 2nd to reflect anything, for the simple reason so many decisions have upheld the governments right to regulates sales, mgf., and ownership. How certain idiots can elevate their bloviate to Bill’s level on the opposite side of the issue is not a great way to look at regulating either. Education is what addresses that. Responding to extreme rhetoric (protected by that other right) is not sensible law making, and rarely a sensible evaluation of facts on the ground.

Calls to remove the 2nd are just as unwelcome & misguided as calls to remove any other individual right. The states have little room the regulate any other right. They have wide latitude to regulate the under the 2nd.

Don’t like Florida or Texas law? Fine, but why blame the nations constitution with so many ready and proven examples of states that get the laws about right? Why is it such a good idea to look at the wrong jurisdictions instead of the right ones?

294 Backwoods_Sleuth  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 9:34:38am
295 Ryan King  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 9:35:55am

re: #283 Political Atheist

Okay so according to Bill Maher the proper left argument about guns is just up and take away a SCOTUS confirmed individual right. straight out of the Constitution. I’d submit he abuses the first amendment like a gangbanger abuses the second. Shall we yank that too? How about the 4th? Or 5th?

Bill’s logic-Diseased and defenseless is the proper shape of the American population. Got it.

Maher said it’s bullshit. You’re assuming he meant all the other stuff with bonus Slippery Slope.

You can say something is bullshit and not mean the rest. I happen to agree with him here, that it’s bullshit.

But to say so is apostasy.

296 Eclectic Cyborg  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 9:37:14am

I’m hoping for the Seahawks, not because I hate Peyton manning, but because I like the way the ‘Hawks play.

297 Political Atheist  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 9:39:27am

re: #295 Ryan King

Maher said it’s bullshit. You’re assuming he meant all the other stuff with bonus Slippery Slope.

You can say something is bullshit and not mean the rest. I happen to agree with him here, that it’s bullshit.

But to say so is apostasy.

Given the actual, not the rhetorical excess state of the law, what part is bullshit? Some would look at anti vaxxers or hate speech and say the same about the 1st amendment.

298 NJDhockeyfan  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 9:41:55am

Heh.

299 Eclectic Cyborg  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 9:45:38am

It breaks my heart that those fools make my country look so bad.

300 Political Atheist  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 9:45:58am
And as I’ve complained multiple times before, the 2nd Amendment was written when getting off two accurate shots in a minute made John McClain from Die Hard.

Let’s make a comparison.
The 1st was written when it took weeks for news to move from place to place, No faster than a horse could carry it. A speaker could not possibly address more than a few hundred people at a time. Maybe the low thousands in an opera house. As long as we are comparing technology as a lever on which to change basic rights, lets look at twitter trolls, hate speech and fomenting violence as a logical progression to reducing or removing the 1st.

To me neither of these things are appropriate. We can and do regulate guns and other technologies. Rhetorical angst is not justification to mess with the bill of rights.

301 Justanotherhuman  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 9:46:48am
It breaks my heart that those fools make my country look so bad.

Well, at least you only have 2 right now. Think of all we have. : )

302 Eclectic Cyborg  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 9:48:58am

re: #301 Justanotherhuman

Well, at least you only have 2 right now. Think of all we have. : )

lol, we have more than two, it’s just those two are the most prominent at the moment.

303 Ryan King  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 9:49:44am

re: #297 Political Atheist

Given the actual, not the rhetorical excess state of the law, what part is bullshit? Some would look at anti vaxxers or hate speech and say the same about the 1st amendment.

You’re conflating the argument.

People misinterpret the 1st all the time, but the right and the law is sound.

But the 2nd is misinterpreted all the time because it’s obvious that ‘well regulated militia’ is either interpreted wrongly or not interpreted at all. By your own statement, the 2nd has been reviewed all the time, which should be some indication that there is a problem with it.

A well regulated militia is not a waiting list of FBI background check, or the combination of such. It’s a body of citizens that is well regulated.

It’s a totally outdated concept. Which is the bullshit.

I think the slippery slope argument is bullshit too.

304 Political Atheist  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 9:56:12am

re: #303 Ryan King

You are ignoring the actual state of the law. And then conflating what the real gun nuts have to say to each other in forums.

What slippery slope argument? I’m keeping my point to the state of the law as recently decided.

Saying there is a problem with the 2nd because we have the ability to regulate (from that very same law and resulting decisions) is a circular argument. We have the right to assemble, that gets regulated from local fire departments re crowded rooms on up to requiring permits to protest en masse.

Added edit-Where can I find the language Bill Mahr suggests for the 2nd? If it’s not out there he is making the same mistake the GOP makes with Obamacare. Just opposition with nothing but sleight of hand as a proposal to replace it. Aha! We have found the bullshit in the argument.

Again, in the legal sense what part of the 2nd exactly is bullshit? There is an abundance of bull in the debates and discussions but the law itself? Where?

305 Mattand  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 9:57:41am

re: #293 Political Atheist

The law is not interpreted as you say by the legal system. There is no need to re work the 2nd to reflect anything, for the simple reason so many decisions have upheld the governments right to regulates sales, mgf., and ownership. How certain idiots can elevate their bloviate to Bill’s level on the opposite side of the issue is not a great way to look at regulating either. Education is what addresses that. Responding to extreme rhetoric (protected by that other right) is not sensible law making, and rarely a sensible evaluation of facts on the ground.

Calls to remove the 2nd are just as unwelcome & misguided as calls to remove any other individual right. The states have little room the regulate any other right. They have wide latitude to regulate the under the 2nd.

Don’t like Florida or Texas law? Fine, but why blame the nations constitution with so many ready and proven examples of states that get the laws about right? Why is it such a good idea to look at the wrong jurisdictions instead of the right ones?

Couple of points:

1) As was mentioned, amending the 2nd Amendment is not the same as removing the right for everyone to own guns. I haven’t listened to the latest Real Time yet, but based on past podcast versions, Maher has called for amending it.

2) You know what would be nice? Being able to go to a state like TX or FL and not having to worry that someone is going to fucking blow my head off over texting before a movie or accidentally spilling a beer in a bar.

3) Call me crazy, but we have a fucking gun problem in this country. Most other civilized countries don’t have a 2nd Amendment like we do. You know what else they don’t have? The chronic cycle of rampage and school shootings America does.

4) Spare me the slippery slope arguments.

It’s 2014. We can put a man on the moon and are walking around with what are essentially Star Trek communicators in our pockets. Yet, as a country, we still think we have to be armed to the teeth in order to go grocery shopping or walk the dog.

The 2nd Amendment, as is currently interpreted, is a fucking death pact. You want to keep your gun, fine. But we need an amendment for the 21st century, not the 18th.

306 allegro  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 9:58:25am

Yeah, yeah, let’s hear some more rahs for this vast majority of “responsible gun owners” after weeks of pretty much daily reports now of shootings in malls and schools - and those are only the on purpose shootings. Haven’t even mentioned the kids and dumbass “accidental” shootings.

I have no actual fucks to give about the 2nd amendment since it is just a distraction from the gun fetishists who are shooting innocent asses every damn day. I am, however, so sick of the apologia we as a nation allow it to enable. For this reason I gotta agree with the “it’s bullshit” statement.

I give even fewer fucks for those who argue about their rights to keep arsenals and carry loaded guns at will. How about we put as much effort into the discussion of our right to not get fucking shot while grocery shopping or enjoying a meal at a restaurant or just going about our daily business?

307 b_sharp  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 10:10:48am

re: #299 Eclectic Cyborg

It breaks my heart that those fools make my country look so bad.

They don’t.
Don’t take these two too seriously.

308 Political Atheist  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 10:11:08am

re: #306 allegro

That’s not what I’m saying. Staying on point, I’m talking about where and how we regulate. Not if we should. Try not to conflate that with the gun nut rhetoric, you get none of that from me. A big part of my point above is we have abundant room to regulate and should. Don’t blame the bill of rights of the 2nd for what states fail to do. It’s misplaced.

About those daily reports about shooting at malls- Perhaps you are aware that a really big chunk of gun (and other) violence is all about gangs. that’s felons who do not have any gun rights at all. There is no right to any criminal use of a gun. Suffice to say violent crime is a bitch. No matter what the weapon is.

Apologies for misspelling his name whilst keeping up.

Never mind all that ‘cause I’d rather limit this discussion to how to properly regulate gun ownership, and not open up into all the ancillary issues right now. The constitution is not getting a re write. The 2nd was upheld as an individual right. As was ways to regulate that.

I’m standing up for one of our rights, and it’s interesting how much I did not say has to be dragged in to oppose my position.

So those that oppose the second can really only say they support the bill of (as is) rights in part. I can say I support them all even with all the technology that has come to pass and will continue to grow. Is that such a terrible position? To Bill Maher it is.

309 Feline Fearless Leader  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 10:11:40am

re: #255 Mattand

LOL, Phil’s about 6 hours from here. He’s basically in OH, from our perspective.

One of these days I’m gonna try to go see a Phillies-Pirates game at PNC Park.

Really nice park. I got to see a Pirates playoff game there this autumn.

310 Political Atheist  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 10:20:24am

122 Year Old Obama (SteelPH)

Why just down ding again and again rather than calmly discuss? Or at least both? I’m not dissing anyone but Bill Maher. Just making a legal argument as to how wrong I think he is.

311 ObserverArt  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 10:20:25am

re: #280 Justanotherhuman

Zaporozhye today. Rally in support of Yanukovych. (Google transl)

[Embedded content]


Gotta laugh…

Looks like some of the Tea Party rallies in the US.

312 ObserverArt  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 10:27:06am

re: #286 Ryan King

‘Well regulated militia’ does not mean idiots hoarding assault weapons or open carry.

The 2nd is interpreted as ‘I can have anything I want at any time because***.’

***Because the NRA says so, and they know the best because they are a totally untouchable group of lobbyists that are not elected by the populace and represent the gun manufacturing industry…just like the forefathers of this country imagined when they wrote the second amendment.

313 William Barnett-Lewis  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 10:27:27am

re: #304 Political Atheist

There are several people here who will not be happy until all firearms are banned. Trying to argue the reality of the law with them will not change their minds. It’s magical thinking of the highest order: if we ban guns then they will all disappear and we’ll have a violence free nation overnight.

314 allegro  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 10:31:23am

re: #308 Political Atheist

I’m standing up for one of our rights, and it’s interesting how much I did not say has to be dragged in to oppose my position.

Because we have never ever had this discussion with every gun fetishist ever. Because gun lovers are just so very passionate about our Constitution and its purity - that’s all it is. Really. The rest of us just insist on changing the subject from this erudite intellectual exercise to instead talk about PEOPLE GETTING KILLED senselessly by assholes consistently screeching about their 2nd amendment rights to hug their guns.

Certainly is interesting where priorities rest.

315 allegro  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 10:34:20am

re: #313 William Barnett-Lewis

There are several people here who will not be happy until all firearms are banned. Trying to argue the reality of the law with them will not change their minds. It’s magical thinking of the highest order: if we ban guns then they will all disappear and we’ll have a violence free nation overnight.

Welcome Strawman!

316 Political Atheist  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 10:36:27am

re: #314 allegro

Because we have never ever had this discussion with every gun fetishist ever. Because gun lovers are just so very passionate about our Constitution and its purity - that’s all it is. Really. The rest of us just insist on changing the subject from this erudite intellectual exercise to instead talk about PEOPLE GETTING KILLED senselessly by assholes consistently screeching about their 2nd amendment rights to hug their guns.

Certainly is interesting where priorities rest.

If you think or claim that’s my priorities you wrong me.

I can’t answer for all the unwise gun nut rhetoric out there, any more than a progressive can answer for Code pink. I live in a place with severe gang violence. I work in a biz where armed criminals murder us in the pursuit of stealing gold and gems. So I attempt to frame an argument away from the rhetoric and onto the realities of the law and our certain ability to regulate in such a way as to reduce the violence we both abhor.

Stepping upstairs now to enjoy a rare instance of getting a Page promoted.

317 Ryan King  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 10:37:06am

re: #313 William Barnett-Lewis

There are several people here who will not be happy until all firearms are banned. Trying to argue the reality of the law with them will not change their minds. It’s magical thinking of the highest order: if we ban guns then they will all disappear and we’ll have a violence free nation overnight.

This is why we can’t talk about the 2nd amendment. I

318 Political Atheist  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 10:40:34am

Damn. I had hoped the usual cool and logical style that pervades here most of the time would keep it more abstract and not fall into the usual rut. My error. Actually sorry I dared to object to Mr Anti Vaxx himself here. Won’t do that again.

319 b_sharp  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 10:46:44am

re: #313 William Barnett-Lewis

There are several people here who will not be happy until all firearms are banned. Trying to argue the reality of the law with them will not change their minds. It’s magical thinking of the highest order: if we ban guns then they will all disappear and we’ll have a violence free nation overnight.

That’s not even close to reality.

320 Ryan King  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 10:47:05am

re: #318 Political Atheist

Damn. I had hoped the usual cool and logical style that pervades here most of the time would keep it more abstract and not fall into the usual rut. My error. Actually sorry I dared to object to Mr Anti Vaxx himself here. Won’t do that again.

Weird, as you upvoted this:

There are several people here who will not be happy until all firearms are banned. Trying to argue the reality of the law with them will not change their minds. It’s magical thinking of the highest order: if we ban guns then they will all disappear and we’ll have a violence free nation overnight.

I’m all for talking about the bullshit part of the 2nd Amendment. It is, after all, an Amendment, and can be amended again.

If we’re going to talk about ‘the law’ then we can talk about the Amendment that is the foundation of the law and the guiding principle in all precedent.

321 allegro  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 10:49:19am

re: #316 Political Atheist

If you think or claim that’s my priorities you wrong me.

I can’t answer for all the unwise gun nut rhetoric out there, any more than a progressive can answer for Code pink. I live in a place with severe gang violence. I work in a biz where armed criminals murder us in the pursuit of stealing gold and gems. So I attempt to frame an argument away from the rhetoric and onto the realities of the law and our certain ability to regulate in such a way as to reduce the violence we both abhor.

Because that’s exactly the same thing as saying “Bill maher is an asshole for saying the 2nd amendment is bullshit.” If you want to discuss sensible gun regulation and toss around ideas why didn’t you say so?

322 Political Atheist  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 10:55:06am

re: #321 allegro

Like I said I was intending to diss Bill Maher for calling the amendment bullshit. I read that as remove it, not change it, especially since no such amended language has even been proposed by him. I’d do the same about anyone looking to yank any of those critical amendments. Sure they are amendments but lets face it-Nothing in the bill of rights is going to be removed or amended. Especially not because the NRA misreads it. Especially because we don’t need t, to regulate gun ownership.

323 b_sharp  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 10:57:20am

re: #322 Political Atheist

Like I said I was intending to diss Bill Maher for calling the amendment bullshit. I read that as remove it, not change it, especially since no such amended language has even been proposed by him. I’d do the same about anyone looking to yank any of those critical amendments. Sure they are amendments but lets face it-Nothing in the bill of rights is going to be removed or amended. Especially not because the NRA misreads it. Especially because we don’t need t, to regulate gun ownership.

He’s been saying for years that the 2nd needs to be revisited and rewritten. He doesn’t desire for all guns to be banned, he himself owns firearms.

324 Political Atheist  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 10:58:05am

re: #320 Ryan King

I upvoted that given the stealth downdings, and an impression that William may well be correct that some advocate banning guns outright. As evidenced by certain posts over time in support of the laws so egregious they precipitated the affirmation of the 2nd as an individual right. The last one to be so confirmed.

325 ObserverArt  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 10:59:58am

re: #288 Political Atheist

Each and every right comes with responsibilities. Mr Mahr forgets that about the first. The vast majority of us remember our responsibilities under the 2nd. Under the law as defined by the court, the militia is not a requirement and the Feds have the right to regulate as does the states. As shown & upheld in court time and time again. Hundreds, arguably thousands of federal state & local gun laws have held up to legal scrutiny. We don’t have to join a militia or the military to own a gun for any legal purpose. That would be a rather blatant poison pill in current times. Think single women in high crime areas or subsistence hunters.

I totally agree with regulating, even in a relatively strict way as California does. Suggesting we just do away with fundamental passages of the constitution as the only proper way the left side of politics should address the issue is what is utterly indefensible.

Keep in mind Bill Maher is one individual and speaks for himself and the people that may think like him. Which is his and their right too. Too many times people all about the right to free speech seem to think that others they disagree with do not have those same rights.

Where the problems come in with guns anymore is the fact that not everyone is responsible and therefore too many times people have had even more basic constitutional rights stripped away by the irresponsible. How do you govern responsibility? The NRA sure doesn’t do it. The government that seems in fear of a lobbying group doesn’t do it? So, who is responsible?

Let’s put it this way…the very first unalienable right in the preamble to the Constitution is “life” and so many times that one gets trumped by someone else’s “liberty.”

Do I have any answers? No. I am totally frustrated as a citizen that has rights too, but seems to not to have much representation. I can’t do a damn thing about a group like the NRA. Is that right? Is that covered anywhere in the constitution? I think it is, but no one is doing anything about it.

I do think we as a country forget that one of the other big responsibilities of our government is to protect. And as long as the NRA has more protection for one aspect of liberty than the government has to protect something as basic as life, then we have major problems. And we have a major problem.

I still wonder what the forefathers would think of America today. I have the feeling they would be aghast at how we allow some of what we allow, and how far we have wandered away from that simple preamble.

326 Political Atheist  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 11:01:31am

re: #323 b_sharp

But it just is not required to make those changes. Where is his proposed language for that amending? The fact he owns gus impresses me not at all.

Countless people make use of laws they don’t like. Sean Penn, known for his rhetoric best kindly described as left leaning just fessed up to owning sixty or so guns, got called on it and is now saying he hired a sculptor to make an art piece out of those very guns melted down. Fine with me it’s his money and time.

327 Shiplord Kirel  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 11:02:42am

Gun incidents kill many times as many people every year as aviation accidents. Yet nobody would suggest that people be allowed to fly or maintain airplanes without some pretty stringent licensing requirements. If you publicly suggest requiring gun owners to take a basic written test on safety and the law, though, you will be instigating a revolution. You’d have to live in a bunker and buy your own arsenal to fend off gun-crazed assassins.
One possible question: “The presence of a stranger on your property is automatically a threat and you can therefore shoot that stranger without warning. True or false?” The answer is “false,” of course, but several recent murders indicate that many gun owners are unaware of this.

On a brighter note, I ordered one of these a while back, Uberti 1871 Remington Rolling Block carbine, 45-70. Should be here tomorrow or Tuesday. This is the same caliber as my Ruger #1, but is quite a bit lighter and handier. I do not recommend these guns for novice shooters or the recoil-shy however. This will stop the local threat (wild hogs, that is) dead in their tracks, and will do so without a lot of fragmentation and expansion damage to the meat. It can also use a very wide range of hand loaded ammunition. For low powered rounds (preferable in the bush here), this can include cast bullets and even black powder if I run low on the smokeless type. The latter is a real possibility since hoarders are buying up every grain of it in their long running expectation of an Obama ban.

328 Political Atheist  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 11:13:38am

re: #327 Shiplord Kirel

I like the idea of a similar protocol for guns.

329 Political Atheist  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 11:16:39am

re: #321 allegro

If you want to discuss sensible gun regulation and toss around ideas why didn’t you say so?

Say so? Actually did so (lobbying long ago) and spoke accordingly. Sensible would be as I said Federal or state laws, not dicking around with the bill of rights.

330 Shiplord Kirel  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 11:16:41am

If the Uberti is a little steep at $799 MSRP (figure $650 retail), H&R makes their Handi-Rifle in the same 45-70 caliber. This is a very reliable and strong break-open gun and typically retails for less than $300. If you have the skill and confidence for a single shot rifle, it is an awful lot of hitting power and versatility for the money.

331 ObserverArt  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 11:17:09am

re: #318 Political Atheist

Damn. I had hoped the usual cool and logical style that pervades here most of the time would keep it more abstract and not fall into the usual rut. My error. Actually sorry I dared to object to Mr Anti Vaxx himself here. Won’t do that again.

Doesn’t appear you are keeping your cool. I think I’ve seen this play out before in people discussing things with you. You want a discussion and don’t like the kickback, call out others that don’t line right up with your thoughts and then get butthurt. Why? Can’t you just say your peace and let it be? Can’t others say their peace and you let them be? Do you even understand the first amendment?

Or, are you upset that there isn’t automatic agreement with your comments?

This is the biggest thing wrong with discussing guns and the second amendment…no one can discuss it. The NRA, the government bodies. So how bad will it have to get before there will be an outright ban? The worse it gets, the more a chance for that to occur.

Lets all look away and hope we don’t killed shot and maimed or killed when someone with rights and no responsibility goes off.

A question for you. How many times do you think someone that fashions themselves as a responsible gun owner flips out and shoots someone? Where is the that fine line? What causes them to cross it? How are they or anyone supposed to gauge it?

332 Political Atheist  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 11:29:42am

re: #331 ObserverArt

The stealth dings annoyed me, and the rest is just give and take point for point. Getting lumped in with gun nuts while refraining from doing the same to anyone else gets old. So sure I got annoyed at that. The best replies were about the law, rather than just pointing at the always unhelpful NRA or similar extremes. Like your point above that got an up from me. We might not agree but I appreciate how you go about it.

Or Shiplord made a great post. Gun guy that gets the need to regulate as do I. I just really think we need not screw with the constitution to do so and I think the law is firmly on my side with that.

Stealth dings and getting lumped in with the idiots out there gets me a little, mea culpa. Maybe too much sumatra coffee.

333 Shiplord Kirel  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 11:41:29am

An asshole in South Texas is headed for prison after he shot and critically wounded two children at a rural school. The school was more than a mile away and the asshole didn’t know the bullets from his Mauser rifle would reach that far. He is too stupid to own a gun, obviously, but there was noone around to tell him that or to determine how stupid is too stupid. You can buy and own a gun without knowing which end the bullets come out of, let alone how far they will go or what their path is likely to be. That is one thing that has to change.

When I confronted those drunken girls in my apartment years ago, and pointed my pistol at the doorway, I reflexively went through the shoot/don’t shoot protocol in my mind. It took a fraction of a second but, broken down, it would go something like this:
Intruder in sight. Check
Looks harmless. Disregard (remembering the Manson family)
Hands visible. Check
No weapons. Check
Stops advancing. Check
Conclusion: Don’t shoot
This sounds obvious and simple but it really requires a fair amount of training and practice to be able to do it right, in a fraction of a second, when you’re piss-in-your-pants scared and your finger is hovering on the trigger.
It is possible to work out a rational definition of a responsible gun owner but nobody can make it stick under current laws. The problem with “responsible gun owners” as now constituted is that every nut cake can decide for himself what is responsible and nobody can tell him otherwise unless tragedy intervenes.

334 Political Atheist  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 11:46:23am

This deserves it’s own reply, and thank you for the question.

re: #331 ObserverArt

A question for you. How many times do you think someone that fashions themselves as a responsible gun owner flips out and shoots someone? Where is the that fine line? What causes them to cross it? How are they or anyone supposed to gauge it?

In short, too often. Even vanishingly small numbers are too often. I would expect that self identifying as sensible or responsible needs some backing. Usually with actions taken or refrained from. Certainly a gun makes any violence more deadly. Being more careful about who has access is an important change we need to make.

When people get violent whatever is at hand can and will come into play. If someone angry grabs a kitchen knife it’s a tragedy not a gun control win. What makes us violent to the point of deadly? That needs to be a bigger part of the argument than merely gun regulation. Anti gang, anti suicide, anti domestic violence measure can all save lives. Put that with gun regulations, perhaps similar to California. I read the other day something like 40% of gun violence is gang crimes. That’s a big chunk of the problem right there. Tony Scott the filmmaker killed himself with little or no explanation. It’s a mystery and a tragedy. He found a bridge to use, so I will hazard a guess he might not have had a gun or wanted to lock himself in a garage with a running car and use the carbon monoxide. It’s no less tragic or sad.
To back up my point about gang violence

They poison our streets with drugs, violence, and all manner of crime.
Some 33,000 violent street gangs, motorcycle gangs, and prison gangs with about 1.4 million members are criminally active in the U.S. today. Many are sophisticated and well organized; all use violence to control neighborhoods and boost their illegal money-making activities, which include robbery, drug and gun trafficking, fraud, extortion, and prostitution rings. According to the 2011 National Gang Threat Assessment report, gangs are responsible for an average of 48 percent of violent crime in most jurisdictions, and up to 90 percent in others. We’re redoubling our efforts to disrupt and dismantle gangs through intelligence-driven investigations and new initiatives and partnerships.
fbi.gov

335 Political Atheist  Sun, Feb 2, 2014 12:27:28pm

re: #333 Shiplord Kirel

An asshole in South Texas is headed for prison after he shot and critically wounded two children at a rural school. The school was more than a mile away and the asshole didn’t know the bullets from his Mauser rifle would reach that far. He is too stupid to own a gun, obviously, but there was noone around to tell him that or to determine how stupid is too stupid. You can buy and own a gun without knowing which end the bullets come out of, let alone how far they will go or what their path is likely to be. That is one thing that has to change.

When I confronted those drunken girls in my apartment years ago, and pointed my pistol at the doorway, I reflexively went through the shoot/don’t shoot protocol in my mind. It took a fraction of a second but, broken down, it would go something like this:
Intruder in sight. Check
Looks harmless. Disregard (remembering the Manson family)
Hands visible. Check
No weapons. Check
Stops advancing. Check
Conclusion: Don’t shoot
This sounds obvious and simple but it really requires a fair amount of training and practice to be able to do it right, in a fraction of a second, when you’re piss-in-your-pants scared and your finger is hovering on the trigger.
It is possible to work out a rational definition of a responsible gun owner but nobody can make it stick under current laws. The problem with “responsible gun owners” as now constituted is that every nut cake can decide for himself what is responsible and nobody can tell him otherwise unless tragedy intervenes.

See that’s a win. Everyone did the right thing in the end.

Been there did that with drunken neighbor in a rage looking to kick my ass in my own apartment. Classic deterrence- I made damn sure he knew what was in my hands on the other side of the door he was trying to break in. He proceeded to break and ruin every item on my porch but quit trying to force the door. Really strong doors are worth every dollar.


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