Greenwald et al to Receive Polk Award - From the Home of the Homeland Security Management Institute

“Many of our students hold management or executive-level positions in agencies such as the…National Security Agency.”
Media • Views: 27,083

Turns out that the George Polk Award is given out by Long Island University which is also home to the Homeland Security Management Institute.

Polk Award page at Long Island University:

The George Polk Awards are conferred annually to honor special achievement in journalism. They were established by Long Island University in 1949 to commemorate Polk, a CBS correspondent murdered the year before while covering the Greek civil war. Winners are chosen from newspapers, magazines, television, radio and online news organizations. Judges place a premium on investigative and enterprise work that is original, requires digging and resourcefulness, and brings results. Some of the most respected names in journalism have won Polk Awards…

Homeland Security Management Institute - Long Island University

The Homeland Security Management Institute (HSMI) of LIU Riverhead is the nation’s premier online graduate education program in homeland security management. Designated by Congress as a National Security Center of Excellence, HSMI graduates are among the best-trained and most sought-after law enforcement officers, managers and executives in the nation. As one of only six institutions of higher learning in North America to receive an endorsement by the FBI National Academy Associates, the HSMI provides a rigorous and challenging foundation in homeland security.

Founded in 2004, the HSMI offers the 36-credit Master of Science in Homeland Security Management, the 15-credit Advanced Certificate in Homeland Security Management, and the 15 credit Advanced Certificate in Cyber Security Policy. Many of our students hold management or executive-level positions in agencies such as the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, the National Security Agency, the Department of Homeland Security, the FBI, the NYPD, the U.S. Coast Guard, and all branches of the Department of Defense, as well as leading defense contractors. Students also are professionals in the financial, health care and education sectors as well as state and local law enforcement in urban and rural agencies across the nation.

More at Faculty of Senior Fellows - Long Island University

Mr. Ferrer is a military veteran with twenty years of distinguished service in the US Air Force. Over the course of his military career, he served as an operational linguist (in Russian, Spanish and Italian language fields); an Air Training Command Master Instructor, language course developer and education evaluator; national counter-narcotics training course manager; and, creator and director of Senior Executive Service leadership development courses for the National Security Agency (NSA) and the Intelligence Community (IC).

For a general search of “National Security Agency” at Long Island University click here.

For a government search of “Homeland Security Management Institute” and “Long Island” click here.

Military sites click here.

Original source from Long Island University - Wikipedia

LIU Riverhead is home to the Homeland Security Management Institute, recognized as one of the leading institutions in the United States in homeland security training. The institute has been designated a “Homeland Security Center of Excellence” by the United States Congress.

From Homeland Security Management Institute Employment - Long Island University at Riverhead

Occupations in this category include criminal investigators, compliance officers, police officers, security and prison guards and airport screeners. In particular, the Transportation Security Administration projects a need for 9,000 full- and part-time screeners in 2005, and a similar need in 2006. The Coast Guard, which also is part of the Department of Homeland Security (DHS), needs to hire additional staff for port security, as well as for search and rescue controllers. And as a result of the intelligence reform law enacted in December 2004, DHS will be hiring 2,000 border patrol agents annually for the next four years and an additional 800 Immigration and Customs Enforcement investigators each year.

The Justice and Homeland Security departments also will be seeking increasing numbers of people, especially those with foreign language expertise, to serve as intelligence officers.

This “security sector” ranked as the single largest area of need, even though this survey did not include data from the National Security Agency or the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), which is confidential and unavailable to the public. On November 18, 2004, President Bush issued an executive order calling for the CIA to increase staffing by 50 percent in three key areas: clandestine operators, intelligence analysts and intelligence officers proficient in “mission critical languages.” Since the number of employees in each of these three groups is classified, how many new hires this will demand is unclear. But press accounts estimate the president’s request will translate into 2,200 new clandestine officers alone.

Homeland Security - Safety First - NYTimes.com

BEFORE 9/11, the term “homeland security” didn’t exist. Neither did the academic discipline. The events of that day changed that. Security experts — like Vincent Henry, a police officer turned Fulbright scholar who heads the Homeland Security Management Institute at Long Island University — recognized that an entirely new, specialized industry would have to be formed, and that managers and executives would have to be schooled in the ways of domestic and international terrorism to fill a security void.

From the lunatics at Prison Planet: Another list of real terrorists/anti-govt fascists who threaten the Constitution

Vincent J. Doherty

Vincent J. Doherty is the director for program outreach for the Center of Homeland Defense and Security (CHDS) at the Naval Postgraduate School (NPS) and was the CHDS 2005-2006 senior fellow/practitioner at the Department of Homeland Security, Preparedness Directorate. He is an adjunct professor for the Homeland Security Management Institute at Long Island University and he is currently on the board of advisors for Ahura and EdgeVelocity Corporations. Mr. Doherty is a member and the former local co-chair of the Science and Technology Committee for the Inter-Agency Board (IAB) for Equipment Standardization and Interoperability. A retired, highly decorated twenty-five-year veteran of the Fire Department of New York City (FDNY), he is currently a contract instructor for the Center for Domestic Preparedness, an instructor for the National Fire Academy, and a New York State Certified Fire Service Instructor.

Stan Supinski

Stan Supinski is the director of partnership programs and a faculty member in the Center for Homeland Defense and Security Master’s Degree Program. He is also a visiting professor to the Long Island University Homeland Security Management Institute and has served on the faculty of the University of Massachusetts and University of Denver. He is the former deputy for training and education for the North American Aerospace Defense Command and U.S. Northern Command, where he developed the organizations’ academic training and education programs; he is also the founder and former director of the Homeland Security/Defense Education Consortium (HSDEC), a network of more than 270 federal, military, and civilian educational institutions. Dr. Supinski has conducted research and authored numerous articles on homeland security and defense, technology support to education, and language acquisition. His research includes development of the Daily Knowledge Vitamin, a technology-based, distributed learning methodology used to maintain and incrementally increase knowledge and skills. The methodology has been used by military linguists worldwide, and has been adopted by the U.S. Coast Guard and other DOD and civilian organizations. Dr. Supinski holds a PhD in instructional systems design from Florida State University and a master’s degree in national security affairs from the Naval Postgraduate School.

6 U.S.C.
United States Code, 2011 Edition
Title 6 - DOMESTIC SECURITY
CHAPTER 4 - TRANSPORTATION SECURITY
SUBCHAPTER I - TRANSPORTATION SECURITY PLANNING AND INFORMATION SHARING

SUBCHAPTER I—TRANSPORTATION SECURITY PLANNING AND INFORMATION SHARING

(c) Member institutions
(1) Consortium

The institution of higher education selected under subsection (b) shall execute agreements with the other institutions of higher education identified in this subsection and other institutions designated by the Secretary to develop a consortium to assist in accomplishing the goals of the Center.
(2) Members

The National Transportation Security Center of Excellence shall consist of—

(A) Texas Southern University in Houston, Texas;
(B) the National Transit Institute at Rutgers, The State University of New Jersey;
(C) Tougaloo College;
(D) the Connecticut Transportation Institute at the University of Connecticut;
(E) the Homeland Security Management Institute, Long Island University;
(F) the Mack-Blackwell National Rural Transportation Study Center at the University of Arkansas; and
(G) any additional institutions or facilities designated by the Secretary.

Also of note. Inside Edition won a George Polk Award in 1996.

Jump to bottom

466 comments
1 Targetpractice  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 11:07:24am

“It’s like goldy or bronzy, only it’s made of iron.”

2 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 11:08:27am

So the Polk award for exposing NSA secrets comes from the same place that trains NSA agents.

Perfect.

3 FemNaziBitch  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 11:08:56am

Truth is stranger than Fiction?

4 Kragar  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 11:09:35am
5 b.d.  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 11:09:57am

Favorite Polk Award winner?

Glenn Greenwald or Bill O’Rielly?

6 b.d.  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 11:10:28am

re: #2 Charles Johnson

So the Polk award for exposing NSA secrets comes from the same place that trains NSA agents.

Perfect.

IT’S A TRAP!!!!

7 Gus  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 11:10:58am

You can’t make this up. I sort of ran into this by accident.

8 Gus  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 11:12:26am

Found it through Wikipedia:

The Brentwood and Riverhead locations, and LIU Hudson, with its two locations in Rockland and Westchester counties, offer graduate degree and advanced certificate programs; the Brentwood location also offers a bachelor’s degree program. LIU Riverhead is home to the Homeland Security Management Institute, recognized as one of the leading institutions in the United States in homeland security training. The institute has been designated a “Homeland Security Center of Excellence” by the United States Congress.

9 Kilroy01  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 11:12:34am

re: #4 Kragar
Congrats!

10 Political Atheist  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 11:16:28am

re: #1 Targetpractice

“It’s like goldy or bronzy, only it’s made of iron.”

I see what you did there.

11 danarchy  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 11:16:44am

re: #9 Kilroy01

The fact Hollywood somehow managed to turn Henry Winkler into an icon of cool is proof they must be dabbling in some pretty serious dark magic…

12 Pie-onist Overlord  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 11:17:30am
13 Pie-onist Overlord  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 11:19:10am
14 Amory Blaine  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 11:19:33am

What the fuck?

15 Ryan King  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 11:19:37am

re: #12 Pie-onist Overlord

Oh gawd.

16 Kragar  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 11:20:39am

re: #12 Pie-onist Overlord

[Embedded content]

DOUCHE FIGHT!

17 William Barnett-Lewis  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 11:22:55am

re: #16 Kragar

DOUCHE FIGHT!

Two douches go in???

18 thedopefishlives  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 11:23:22am

re: #17 William Barnett-Lewis

Two douches go in???

More like, there can be only one.

Afternoon Lizardim from the snow-covered wild north country.

19 Amory Blaine  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 11:23:32am

re: #9 Kilroy01

Holy cow that guy’s got small feet.

20 Gus  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 11:24:02am

re: #14 Amory Blaine

What the fuck?

liu.edu

21 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 11:26:21am

Maybe the Polk medals will have polonium beads embedded in the reverse side. (It does come with a medal, doesn’t it?)

22 freetoken  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 11:27:23am

Because… reality is suppose to be stranger than fiction?

23 Gus  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 11:28:57am

From HSMI LIU Riverhead:

This “security sector” ranked as the single largest area of need, even though this survey did not include data from the National Security Agency or the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), which is confidential and unavailable to the public. On November 18, 2004, President Bush issued an executive order calling for the CIA to increase staffing by 50 percent in three key areas: clandestine operators, intelligence analysts and intelligence officers proficient in “mission critical languages.” Since the number of employees in each of these three groups is classified, how many new hires this will demand is unclear. But press accounts estimate the president’s request will translate into 2,200 new clandestine officers alone.

24 Amory Blaine  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 11:30:07am

Like a cop that busts your headlights out to give you a ticket. How can they square this with the schools ethics? What does the head of the HSMI program say about this?

25 Ryan King  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 11:31:30am

re: #17 William Barnett-Lewis

Two douches go in???

Two Douches Enter. One Douche Leaves.

Bust a deal, face the wheel.

26 Amory Blaine  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 11:32:13am

re: #1 Targetpractice

“It’s like goldy or bronzy, only it’s made of iron.”

Bronze Fonz approved

27 Gus  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 11:34:18am

For a general search of “National Security Agency” at Long Island University click here.

For a government search of “Homeland Security Management Institute” and “Long Island” click here.

Military sites click here.

28 Pie-onist Overlord  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 11:34:34am
29 BongCrodny  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 11:34:45am

re: #17 William Barnett-Lewis

Two douches go in???

A pas-de-douche.

30 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 11:35:11am

Has Greenwald hired Mona Holland for First Look yet? Nobody’s been sucking up to him longer than she has. Time for some rewards there.

31 Backwoods_Sleuth  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 11:36:19am

re: #30 Charles Johnson

Has Greenwald hired Mona Holland for First Look yet? Nobody’s been sucking up to him longer than she has. Time for some rewards there.

I was thinking she’s tied with Sirota right now in that department…

32 thedopefishlives  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 11:36:40am

re: #28 Pie-onist Overlord

I note with some satisfaction that the “liberal quarantine” areas include the vast majority of the places where people actually WANT to live. States like California, Minnesota, Washington, Hawaii, and New York.

33 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 11:37:27am
34 kirkspencer  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 11:38:02am

re: #32 thedopefishlives

I note with some satisfaction that the “liberal quarantine” areas include the vast majority of the places where people actually WANT to live. States like California, Minnesota, Washington, Hawaii, and New York.

I also noticed that he made almost all the states turning purple into red states.

35 Amory Blaine  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 11:38:12am

Vincent E. Henry, CPP, PhD
Director / Associate Professor
Homeland Security Management Institute

36 William Barnett-Lewis  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 11:38:38am

re: #34 kirkspencer

I also noticed that he made almost all the states turning purple into red states.

That’s part of the fantasy world they live in.

37 b.d.  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 11:38:52am

re: #31 Backwoods_Sleuth

I was thinking she’s tied with Sirota right now in that department…

I’d have to go with SIrota for being the next hire, being another white male and all.

38 chadu  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 11:39:20am

re: #32 thedopefishlives

I note with some satisfaction that the “liberal quarantine” areas include the vast majority of the places where people actually WANT to live. States like California, Minnesota, Washington, Hawaii, and New York.

And we’d have the tax money to, y’know, do stuff.

39 Pie-onist Overlord  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 11:39:50am
40 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 11:39:59am

re: #28 Pie-onist Overlord

They left out Austin.

41 HappyWarrior  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 11:41:09am

re: #39 Pie-onist Overlord

[Embedded content]

What the fuck.

42 HappyWarrior  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 11:41:23am

re: #40 Shiplord Kirel

They left out Austin.

And Northern Virginia.

43 Targetpractice  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 11:43:18am

re: #41 HappyWarrior

What the fuck.

It’s a pretty common fantasy they like to engage in, that the majority of rapes are of the “chased down a dark alley” variety and not the “date rape/close family member” variety.

44 Pie-onist Overlord  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 11:43:19am

re: #41 HappyWarrior

What the fuck.

45 chadu  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 11:43:41am

re: #39 Pie-onist Overlord

Liberal vs. Conservative (in a rational world):
Liberal: Maybe we should try to be open to some new ideas that might work better.
Conservative: Maybe we should try to stick to those ideas that have been working so far.

(mike drop)

46 HappyWarrior  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 11:44:20am

re: #43 Targetpractice

It’s a pretty common fantasy they like to engage in, that the majority of rapes are of the “chased down a dark alley” variety and not the “date rape/close family member” variety.

Yet the latter is what most rapes you know actually are. Crime statistics be damned. Let’s have a gun circle jerk.

47 Pie-onist Overlord  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 11:46:07am

THAT COLORED GIRL SHOT & KILLED THAT NICE WHITE COLLEGE BOY WHO WAS BUYING HER A FREE DRINK!!!11!!! EXECUTE TEH NEGRO SLUT!!!1!!!!

48 Gus  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 11:46:15am

From the lunatics at Prison Planet: Another list of real terrorists/anti-govt fascists who threaten the Constitution

Vincent J. Doherty

Vincent J. Doherty is the director for program outreach for the Center of Homeland Defense and Security (CHDS) at the Naval Postgraduate School (NPS) and was the CHDS 2005-2006 senior fellow/practitioner at the Department of Homeland Security, Preparedness Directorate. He is an adjunct professor for the Homeland Security Management Institute at Long Island University and he is currently on the board of advisors for Ahura and EdgeVelocity Corporations. Mr. Doherty is a member and the former local co-chair of the Science and Technology Committee for the Inter-Agency Board (IAB) for Equipment Standardization and Interoperability. A retired, highly decorated twenty-five-year veteran of the Fire Department of New York City (FDNY), he is currently a contract instructor for the Center for Domestic Preparedness, an instructor for the National Fire Academy, and a New York State Certified Fire Service Instructor.

Stan Supinski

Stan Supinski is the director of partnership programs and a faculty member in the Center for Homeland Defense and Security Master’s Degree Program. He is also a visiting professor to the Long Island University Homeland Security Management Institute and has served on the faculty of the University of Massachusetts and University of Denver. He is the former deputy for training and education for the North American Aerospace Defense Command and U.S. Northern Command, where he developed the organizations’ academic training and education programs; he is also the founder and former director of the Homeland Security/Defense Education Consortium (HSDEC), a network of more than 270 federal, military, and civilian educational institutions. Dr. Supinski has conducted research and authored numerous articles on homeland security and defense, technology support to education, and language acquisition. His research includes development of the Daily Knowledge Vitamin, a technology-based, distributed learning methodology used to maintain and incrementally increase knowledge and skills. The methodology has been used by military linguists worldwide, and has been adopted by the U.S. Coast Guard and other DOD and civilian organizations. Dr. Supinski holds a PhD in instructional systems design from Florida State University and a master’s degree in national security affairs from the Naval Postgraduate School.

49 Pie-onist Overlord  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 11:46:54am

WTFITS

50 Targetpractice  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 11:47:35am

re: #45 chadu

>Liberal vs. Conservative (in a rational world):
Liberal: Maybe we should try to be open to some new ideas that might work better.
Conservative: Maybe we should try to stick to those ideas that have been working so far.

(mike drop)

In this case, it’s more like:

Liberal: The majority of rapes involve someone close to the victim, making a gun virtually useless.
Conservative: Guns are magical totems which keep evil away even if never drawn!

51 HappyWarrior  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 11:48:11am

re: #45 chadu

>Liberal vs. Conservative (in a rational world):
Liberal: Maybe we should try to be open to some new ideas that might work better.
Conservative: Maybe we should try to stick to those ideas that have been working so far.

(mike drop)

Wow a comparision of liberal and conservative values that doesn’t include hyperbolic bullshit. Seriously though, the whole “Well if you have a gun” thing sounds great on paper but it assumes the fallacy that every scenario is going to be the same and that a would be rapist wouldn’t try to overpower a woman whom is likely smaller than he is and turn the gun back on her.

52 HappyWarrior  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 11:49:16am

re: #49 Pie-onist Overlord

WTFITS

[Embedded content]

Forget it VB, it’s Chinatown err right wing fantasyland.

53 Gus  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 11:49:27am

6 U.S.C.
United States Code, 2011 Edition
Title 6 - DOMESTIC SECURITY
CHAPTER 4 - TRANSPORTATION SECURITY
SUBCHAPTER I - TRANSPORTATION SECURITY PLANNING AND INFORMATION SHARING

SUBCHAPTER I—TRANSPORTATION SECURITY PLANNING AND INFORMATION SHARING

(c) Member institutions
(1) Consortium

The institution of higher education selected under subsection (b) shall execute agreements with the other institutions of higher education identified in this subsection and other institutions designated by the Secretary to develop a consortium to assist in accomplishing the goals of the Center.
(2) Members

The National Transportation Security Center of Excellence shall consist of—

(A) Texas Southern University in Houston, Texas;
(B) the National Transit Institute at Rutgers, The State University of New Jersey;
(C) Tougaloo College;
(D) the Connecticut Transportation Institute at the University of Connecticut;
(E) the Homeland Security Management Institute, Long Island University;
(F) the Mack-Blackwell National Rural Transportation Study Center at the University of Arkansas; and
(G) any additional institutions or facilities designated by the Secretary.

54 A Mom Anon  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 11:49:39am

re: #49 Pie-onist Overlord

Because you just don’t know who’s gonna be rapey and when so you must be armed from birth, just to be safe. They are under the assumption that most rapes occur in dark alleys or while you’re walking down the street.

They watch too many CSI and Criminal Minds type shows.

55 Gus  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 11:49:41am

L-O-L

56 Pie-onist Overlord  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 11:50:43am

WTF

57 HappyWarrior  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 11:50:55am

re: #50 Targetpractice

In this case, it’s more like:

>Liberal: The majority of rapes involve someone close to the victim, making a gun virtually useless.
>Conservative: Guns are magical totems which keep evil away even if never drawn!

Or if you’re attacked in your bed. I mean. They seem to have this idea that rapes are always by these strangers in dark allies where a woman could just pull out her .45 and be like “Freeze fucker.” It’s not like that. IT just isn’t. Just like you’re not going to be able to fire on a school or office shooter during a mass shooting. Real life is more complicated than some fantasy scenario written out by gun fuckers.

58 darthstar  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 11:51:04am

If Greenwald doesn’t get an award, he’ll throw a temper tantrum, so I think it’s nice of the Polk people to give him a token recognition.

60 iossarian  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 11:52:44am

re: #47 Pie-onist Overlord

You don’t even have to get race involved. At college campuses across America, conservatives are already convinced that efforts to crack down on sexual assault are in fact godless liberal assaults on the right of young men to have a good time.

I’ll get some grim satisfaction from the first case of an 18-year old girl blowing away a drunken fratboy and the ensuing Limbaugh-led freakout.

61 chadu  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 11:53:24am

re: #50 Targetpractice

In this case, it’s more like:

>Liberal: The majority of rapes involve someone close to the victim, making a gun virtually useless.
>Conservative: Guns are magical totems which keep evil away even if never drawn!

My point is assigning a liberal or conservative bias to either statement is like saying “red is a liberal color” and “blue is a conservative color” — orthoganal to what the words actually mean.

Right now, they’re just being used as confirmation bias, projection, or utter fantasy labels — granted, mostly by one side.

62 chadu  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 11:54:50am

re: #56 Pie-onist Overlord

Is he maybe supporting your view, in a very confusing way?

63 HappyWarrior  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 11:55:13am

I think most people re: #61 chadu

My point is assigning a liberal or conservative bias to either statement is like saying “red is a liberal color” and “blue is a conservative color” — orthoganal to what the words actually mean.

Right now, they’re just being used as confirmation bias, projection, or utter fantasy labels — granted, mostly by one side.

Precisely. I mean my principle fault with conservative ideology is that its proponents are unwilling to try new ideas even though new ideas are the flow that makes society evolve. The status quo isn’t always bad and the grass isn’t always greener but we should always be open not hostile to new ideas and that in a hunch is why I’m a small letter l-liberal.

64 BusyMonster  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 11:56:18am

re: #28 Pie-onist Overlord

[Embedded content]

The thugs can’t seem to avoid exposing their true desires. Yes, they want to round the rest of us up into concentration camps. That is how the far right thinks, just on an average day. Such things are merely a means to an end, and it’s the end that matters.

65 Backwoods_Sleuth  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 11:57:08am

re: #60 iossarian

You don’t even have to get race involved. At college campuses across America, conservatives are already convinced that efforts to crack down on sexual assault are in fact godless liberal assaults on the right of young men to have a good time.

I’ll get some grim satisfaction from the first case of an 18-year old girl blowing away a drunken fratboy and the ensuing Limbaugh-led freakout.

Yep, because the current wingnut mantra is that women who drink are the ones responsible if they get raped.

67 iossarian  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 11:58:44am

Women! Defend yourselves from the patriarchy! But if you do, you will be punished!

68 chadu  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 11:59:10am

re: #63 HappyWarrior

Right on, my brother.

I also harbor the concept that government can help smooth over crappy situations (affirmative action; corporate regulation; social security; civil rights) that would otherwise go all nutsy fagin, due to through the power of agreed-upon authority, precedence, non-local/non-interested observers, and the law of large numbers.

ETA: Wrong word.

69 BusyMonster  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 11:59:17am

re: #60 iossarian

conservatives are already convinced that efforts to crack down on sexual assault are in fact godless liberal assaults on the right of young men to have a good time.

It’s been fascinating, as the father of two girls, to listen to the utter raving stuttering horseshit these people will emit attempting to justify their rape culture. I’ve on more than one occasion given them a very blunt threat: don’t you ever pull that on my kid, you WILL find out why we have to have rape laws.

See, facing a little jail time for a few little Lord Fauntleroys with more dick than head, is probably preferable to the blood feuds that people like me would instigate if the scion of the local town hurt my daughter … and the law sat there and did nothing.

70 HappyWarrior  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 11:59:48am

re: #65 Backwoods_Sleuth

Yep, because the current wingnut mantra is that women who drink are the ones responsible if they get raped.

Or if you’re shithead James Taranto, being drunk means you’re as responsilbe as your rapist. Honestly, I find that attitude not only degrading towards women but to men too. It’s basically saying “Hey men, if you’re drunk, you’re too stupid to have any respect for a woman tells you.” True story here. I can remember a college house party. There was drinking. A girl seemed pretty interested in me but we especially her were both drunk. I didn’t take advantage of her. It was the right thing to do. Why rape minimalists like Taranto don’t get that, I don’t know why.

71 Pie-onist Overlord  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 12:00:25pm
72 Justanotherhuman  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 12:00:34pm

So, at least 2 of the recipients of this award won’t show up to get it.

Yeah, that’s fearless “journalism”, all right.

They know they received stolen goods. A criminal offense, last time I checked.

73 Gus  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 12:01:20pm

Give me a second and I’m sure I’ll find something on vaccines.

74 chadu  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 12:01:32pm

re: #71 Pie-onist Overlord

[Embedded content]

YES! I was right!

75 HappyWarrior  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 12:01:40pm

re: #71 Pie-onist Overlord

[Embedded content]

So he agrees?

76 Gus  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 12:02:57pm

Robyn O’Brien: Our Kids: More Than a Sales Channel for Big Pharma

…Evidence continues to mount over the impact that environmental toxins contained in vaccines, foods and sippy cups are having on our health. On any given day, an American child might be exposed to formaldehyde in a flu vaccine, endocrine-disrupting bisphenol-A in a sippy cup, and insecticidal proteins in high fructose corn syrup, presenting a stunning assault on the developing immune system of a child.

And rather than prevent and protect, as governments around the world have done, we prescribe: insulin pumps, epinephrine injectors and asthma inhalers in record numbers to the American children…

JUST SAY NO TO MEDICINE!

77 Eventual Carrion  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 12:03:14pm

re: #72 Justanotherhuman

So, at least 2 of the recipients of this award won’t show up to get it.

Yeah, that’s fearless “journalism”, all right.

They know they received stolen goods. A criminal offense, last time I checked.

Isn’t GG in trouble with the law for other things anyway? Some tax or delinquent responsibility of some kind.

78 HappyWarrior  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 12:03:18pm

re: #68 chadu

Right on, my brother.

I also harbor the concept that government can help smooth over crappy situations (affirmative action; corporate regulation; social security; civil rights) that would otherwise go all nutsy fagin, due to the power of agreed-upon authority, precedence, non-local/non-interested observers, and the law of large numbers.

Right. I mean I try to look at things on a case by case and using the actual environment around us. Like on paper, I do see the principle behind wanting more local control of education but at the same time, I see what the David Bartons of the world have done with control of education policy.

79 Gus  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 12:03:45pm

LOL. She’s also on Dr. Mercola’s site.

80 GunstarGreen  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 12:05:12pm

re: #28 Pie-onist Overlord

[Embedded content]

As usual, Republican memes are based on complete and willful ignorance.

The idea, of course, is to present it as a VAST SWEEPING CONSERVATIVE MAJORITY by virtue of land area. Look at all that massive swath of red compared to the pitiful, tiny blue! But, as usual, Reality has a well-known Liberal bias. Pictured another way, with size of the state representing population, the US looks a little different:

Image: enhanced-buzz-2691-1302719425-18.jpg The original

Image: enhanced-buzz-15993-1302719618-22.jpg Adjusted for population

81 Kragar  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 12:06:43pm
82 Pie-onist Overlord  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 12:07:21pm

HURR HURR!!!!!

83 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 12:08:07pm

re: #59 darthstar

Farmers fighting back against big Ag now that GMO crop yields show they’re not as hot as promised.

I thought that one thing with the GMO crops was not necessarily yield/acre but potentially not needing as much insecticide or fertilizer per acre and thus not spending as much money on those products and the time spreading them. Possibly a lower yield, but if you also spend a lot less money per acre growing the crop the yield could be a larger net profit per acre.
(oh wait - that’s nuance, isn’t it?)

84 Pie-onist Overlord  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 12:09:17pm

This must be GUN-FUCKING MEME OF THE DAY at #tcot

85 HappyWarrior  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 12:10:27pm

re: #80 GunstarGreen

As usual, Republican memes are based on complete and willful ignorance.

The idea, of course, is to present it as a VAST SWEEPING CONSERVATIVE MAJORITY by virtue of land area. Look at all that massive swath of red compared to the pitiful, tiny blue! But, as usual, Reality has a well-known Liberal bias. Pictured another way, with size of the state representing population, the US looks a little different:

Image: enhanced-buzz-2691-1302719425-18.jpg The original

Image: enhanced-buzz-15993-1302719618-22.jpg Adjusted for population

Not to mention that the only group that Conservatives/Republicans really dominate with are suburban/rural White Protestants. I think that is at the core of why you’re seeing more conservative Republican politicians go full out nativiist in their approach to immigrants and culture. They know they’re doomed as they know it as a party and ideology if white Protestants continue to decline and other groups like say Hispanics and others continue to increase. Now the mature thing to do would be realizing their ideology has some flaws and working it towards the 21st century but they instead choose to be bitter and angry because the country as they perceive it is dying when it’s just another part of our country’s history.

86 BusyMonster  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 12:10:34pm

re: #36 William Barnett-Lewis

That’s part of the fantasy world they live in.

That’s “the past.” That never was.

87 GunstarGreen  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 12:10:47pm

re: #82 Pie-onist Overlord

I cannot fathom a mind small enough to be incapable of conceiving of any situation wherein a gun is of no practical use. There is a reason that personnel with a high likelihood of person-to-person combat (military, police, etc) train in hand-to-hand techniques.

88 Justanotherhuman  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 12:13:16pm

re: #77 Eventual Carrion

Isn’t GG in trouble with the law for other things anyway? Some tax or delinquent responsibility of some kind.

Taxes and a judgment on his porn business.

nydailynews.com

89 chadu  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 12:13:28pm

re: #84 Pie-onist Overlord

This must be GUN-FUCKING MEME OF THE DAY at #tcot

I blame myself.

The sheer powah of my GUN SAFE PROTOCOL (“when a RWNJ says ‘vagina,’ replace with ‘gun safe’”) must have transcended time and space to unify guns and ladygardens, resulting in the gun-fucking meme.

Or, those folks are just really psychosexually mixed up.

Tough choice.

90 Pie-onist Overlord  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 12:15:51pm

re: #89 chadu

I blame myself.

The sheer powah of my GUN SAFE PROTOCOL (“when a RWNJ says ‘vagina,’ replace with ‘gun safe’”) must have transcended time and space to unify guns and ladygardens, resulting in the gun-fucking meme.

Or, those folks are just really psychosexually mixed up.

Tough choice.

There is a subset of gun-fucking memes that show a scantily-clad woman brandishing a firearm. The purpose of this type of photo is obviously a kind of pr0n fantasy and not instructional self-defense. Since this is Gun-Fucking Meme Day at #tcot I’m sure to see a few before the day is over.

91 Pie-onist Overlord  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 12:16:38pm
92 Justanotherhuman  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 12:17:29pm

re: #82 Pie-onist Overlord

HURR HURR!!!!!

[Embedded content]

Yeah, or you don’t trip in those 6” stilettos…

The RWNJ version of “womanhood” is nothing like I experience.

93 dog philosopher  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 12:19:00pm

re: #78 HappyWarrior

Right. I mean I try to look at things on a case by case and using the actual environment around us. Like on paper, I do see the principle behind wanting more local control of education but at the same time, I see what the David Bartons of the world have done with control of education policy.

imho the dynamic is that local control is on the one hand more sensitive to and responsive to local conditions and needs, but easier to fuck with and also to hide what you are doing (quick - tell me what your state legislature has been doing!)

federal control is one-size-fits-all, expensive, often inefficient and clumsy, but is very visible and is more likely to reflect the values found in society in general

more generally, simplistic republican rhetoric often assumes that there is an all-good solution and an all-bad solution, when in fact most choices are trade-offs

94 HappyWarrior  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 12:21:26pm

re: #93 dog philosopher

imho the dynamic is that local control is on the one hand more sensitive to and responsive to local conditions and needs, but easier to fuck with and also to hide what you are doing (quick - tell me what your state legislature has been doing!)

federal control is one-size-fits-all, expensive, often inefficient and clumsy, but is very visible and is more likely to reflect the values found in society in general

more generally, simplistic republican rhetoric often assumes that there is an all-good solution and an all-bad solution, when in fact most choices are trade-offs

Crap, you argued that better than I could. Anyhow, my state legislature? Uh let’s see transvaginal ultrasounds, a scheme that would make EVs awarded based on the congressional district said candidate won which would have had Romney “win” this state despite losing her by a greater margin than he did nationwide.

95 Justanotherhuman  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 12:21:47pm

So, the Polk award is a ruse to capture Greenwald and Poitras? Heh.

96 chadu  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 12:22:35pm

re: #92 Justanotherhuman

Yeah, or you don’t trip in those 6” stilettos…

The RWNJ version of “womanhood” is nothing like I experience.

Oh, sweet Jebus — this is why Palin is their Ultimate RWNJ Fantasy: utterly incoherent and contradictory attributes displayed/avowed simultaneously.

97 dog philosopher  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 12:22:41pm

stilettos

used this word in the context of a renaissance era historical narrative and got asked why a male person would stab somebody with a woman’s shoe

98 RadicalModerate  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 12:23:06pm

re: #84 Pie-onist Overlord

This must be GUN-FUCKING MEME OF THE DAY at #tcot

[Embedded content]

I’m willing to bet that at least part of it is due to the Michael Dunn murder trial verdict. I’ve seen way too many people calling Dunn a hero, and complaining that the only thing he did wrong was not killing all four occupants of the vehicle where Jordan Davis was a passenger.

99 GunstarGreen  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 12:23:30pm

re: #90 Pie-onist Overlord

re: #92 Justanotherhuman

This would be because right-wing gun porn is exactly that: porn.

In attempting to present a strong female image, it utterly fails because it is actually aimed, and knowingly so, at a male target demographic. The objective is not to impress upon women that they can defend themselves in any and all situations by having a gun (which is the implication), but rather to titillate men by presenting them with the image of sexy women being gung-ho about guns.

It’s exactly the same as car porn and motorcycle porn. That stunningly gorgeous lady in the bikini and stilettos doesn’t give one single shit about that car/bike/gun, she’s just there to make a pretty picture for you to get off on because “thing I like + hot ladiez = oh yeah!”.

100 chadu  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 12:24:20pm

re: #97 dog philosopher

stilettos

used this word in the context of a renaissance era historical narrative and got asked why a male person would stab somebody with a woman’s shoe

There’s your problem right there, sport.

Forget about God: context is dead.

101 Internet Tough Guy  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 12:24:33pm

re: #95 Justanotherhuman

ITS AN NSA SCHOOL HONEYPOT

102 darthstar  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 12:24:52pm

re: #66 Gus

Here’s some more on Robyn O’Brien.

Didn’t notice her link on the bottom of the image. But I do agree with non-GMO farming in general.

103 chadu  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 12:26:40pm

re: #98 RadicalModerate

I’m willing to bet that at least part of it is due to the Michael Dunn murder trial verdict. I’ve seen way too many people calling Dunn a hero, and complaining that the only thing he did wrong was not killing all four occupants of the vehicle where Jordan Davis was a passenger.

In what possible fucking universe is someone who kills someone because he doesn’t like the other’s choice of music (volume/genre, whichever) a fucking hero?

104 Ian G.  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 12:27:16pm

re: #28 Pie-onist Overlord

WTFITS? The public schools in the “quarantine” zone are far, far better than those in the rest of the country. New Hampshire and Washington have no state income tax (I’m not sure about some of the other states in blue). Also, “criminals run the place”? The Upper Midwest and New England are the safest parts of the country. Maybe a criminal runs NJ, but he’s a goddamn Republican.

I know, I know, injecting logic into wingnut memes is as futile as teaching Kant to a spider monkey, but still…..

105 The Ghost of a Flea  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 12:27:38pm

re: #59 darthstar

Farmers fighting back against big Ag now that GMO crop yields show they’re not as hot as promised.

There’s more than one reason to grow GMO corn:

1. Increased yield.
2. Decreased cost in N-P-K soil inputs, for hybrids that are durable in different soil conditions.
3. Decreased cost in pesticide/herbicide outlay. While most people are only aware of Round-up ready, the most common is bt corn, which resists corn borers.

Having just gone over the books with my farm manager, I can say that, within 800 contiguous acres, you can see the difference between the yields, year by year. GMO variants have a continuous rise in yield (bushels per acre), while non-GMO does not.

And while it applies only in my geographic context, Round-up ready has become a very important trait, since the general warming trend and a series of winters where the hard freezes have been brief have resulted in the migration north of very aggressive switch grass varieties that compete with crops. Another pest issue is that the decreased period of hard freeze means less die-back of crop vermin and weeds…these crazy, fast-in, fast-out freezes haven’t been hacking it for the past five years…hopefully this year will be better.

The other thing about the whole GMO/non-GMO thing is that companies love to buy non-GMO corn, but won’t compensate farmers for doing it. All the corn we grow goes to a company that makes masa products, who are currently pushing for a change to non-GMO corn…but they won’t pay more to compensate for the inevitable cost increases, even though they can charge a bit more for having non-GMO on the labels. Indeed, for the next few years, I’ve got some hard decisions to make about whether to keep dealing with them. I’m sort of proud I don’t grow corn for ethanol or HCFS…neither of which I hate, but it’s just cool to grow real food, not an additive.,,but this whole “same price, harder-to-grow product” thing is pissing me off.

106 Justanotherhuman  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 12:28:44pm

re: #103 chadu

In what possible >fucking universe is someone who kills someone because he doesn’t like the other’s choice of music (volume/genre, whichever) a fucking >hero?

In the crazed, racist RWNJ universe, of course.

They call themselves pro-life? Really? Only so they can control women’s uteri.

107 HappyWarrior  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 12:29:07pm

re: #104 Ian G.

WTFITS? The public schools in the “quarantine” zone are far, far better than those in the rest of the country. New Hampshire and Washington have no state income tax (I’m not sure about some of the other states in blue). Also, “criminals run the place”? The Upper Midwest and New England are the safest parts of the country. Maybe a criminal runs NJ, but he’s a goddamn Republican.

I know, I know, injecting logic into wingnut memes is as futile as teaching Kant to a spider monkey, but still…..

You’d have more luck teaching Kant to the spider monkey. I think it would actually show some curiousty. These people meanwhile genuinely believe that every democratic leaning place in the country is a crime soaked hell hole where overtaxation and regulation run amok whereas every republican leaning place is a paradise.

108 A Mom Anon  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 12:29:35pm

re: #70 HappyWarrior

I want to hug you for that. Thank you.

109 chadu  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 12:30:05pm

re: #99 GunstarGreen

It’s exactly the same as car porn and motorcycle porn. That stunningly gorgeous lady in the bikini and stilettos doesn’t give one single shit about that car/bike/gun, she’s just there to make a pretty picture for you to get off on because “thing I like + hot ladiez = oh yeah!”.

Yup, since the move, I’ve been noticing that a lot of guys up here who say they’re attracted to women that hunt actually don’t mean that, when the woman in question criticizes their hunting abilities or choices just as another hunter would (something that would be welcomed or ignored by a fellow hunter who was a man).

And heaven help you if your girlfriend/wife gets a deer and you don’t this season.

Curious, that.

110 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 12:30:59pm

I think the prosecutor over-reached in the Dunn case. They almost certainly could have gotten a conviction for 2nd degree murder, but they went for 1st. Premeditation is a very high bar to clear.

111 GunstarGreen  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 12:31:40pm

re: #103 chadu

In what possible >fucking universe is someone who kills someone because he doesn’t like the other’s choice of music (volume/genre, whichever) a fucking >hero?

In the deep south Republican universe where “breathing while black” is a crime punishable by death.

See also: Zimmerman, George.

We’re not kidding when we say these people are of the old guard, deep-deep-south, KKK variety of racists.

112 chadu  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 12:31:59pm

re: #104 Ian G.

WTFITS? The public schools in the “quarantine” zone are far, far better than those in the rest of the country. New Hampshire and Washington have no state income tax (I’m not sure about some of the other states in blue). Also, “criminals run the place”? The Upper Midwest and New England are the safest parts of the country. Maybe a criminal runs NJ, but he’s a goddamn Republican.

I know, I know, injecting logic into wingnut memes is as futile as teaching Kant to a spider monkey, but still…..

Besides, I’ve heard that Immanuel Kant was a real pissant, who was very rarely stable…

113 Justanotherhuman  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 12:32:33pm

re: #109 chadu

Yup, since the move, I’ve been noticing that a lot of guys up here who say they’re attracted to women that hunt actually don’t mean that, when the woman in question criticizes their hunting abilities or choices just as another hunter would (something that would be welcomed or ignored by a fellow hunter who was a man).

And heaven help you if your girlfriend/wife gets a deer and you don’t this season.

Curious, that.

You know if a woman hunts on her own or with another woman, she’s a lesbo. ///

The boys always have to have the upper hand on this, you know.

114 HappyWarrior  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 12:32:43pm

re: #110 Charles Johnson

I think the prosecutor over-reached in the Dunn case. They almost certainly could have gotten a conviction for 2nd degree murder, but they went for 1st. Premeditation is a very high bar to clear.

Yeah I don’t know why they did that. Baffling. I imagine the kid’s family probably feels the same.

115 Kragar  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 12:34:10pm

re: #110 Charles Johnson

I think the prosecutor over-reached in the Dunn case. They almost certainly could have gotten a conviction for 2nd degree murder, but they went for 1st. Premeditation is a very high bar to clear.

Since it was a hung jury, do they have to retry as 1st or could they change and go for the 2nd degree?

116 dog philosopher  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 12:34:13pm

re: #107 HappyWarrior

You’d have more luck teaching Kant to the spider monkey. I think it would actually show some curiousty. These people meanwhile genuinely believe that every democratic leaning place in the country is a crime soaked hell hole where overtaxation and regulation run amok whereas every republican leaning place is a paradise.

i would trust a spider monkey to act according to a moral understanding of the categorical imperative than many wingnuts i could think of, who have leveraged the ability of the human brain to argue itself into believing the opposite of common sense

117 Pie-onist Overlord  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 12:34:15pm

Here’s an example of the Gun-Fucking Meme I was talking about.

118 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 12:34:17pm

re: #98 RadicalModerate

I’m willing to bet that at least part of it is due to the Michael Dunn murder trial verdict. I’ve seen way too many people calling Dunn a hero, and complaining that the only thing he did wrong was not killing all four occupants of the vehicle where Jordan Davis was a passenger.

If it had been legal, or even common, to shoot obnoxious teens back in the 60s, not many of my contemporaries would have survived to adulthood. Maybe that is the origin of the wingnut view of this: “We should have waxed them hippies way back when, afore they had a chance to mess up the country.”

119 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 12:34:55pm

re: #115 Kragar

Since it was a hung jury, do they have to retry as 1st or could they change and go for the 2nd degree?

Don’t know the rules on that.

120 HappyWarrior  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 12:35:02pm

re: #108 A Mom Anon

I want to hug you for that. Thank you.

No need to thank me but I really felt I needed to tell that anecdote because frankly drunkeness is no excuse for sexual assault and I am beyond pissed that Taranto and others think a woman being drunk means she’s responsible for a drunk or any guy attacking her.
Edited: Doesn’t matter if he’s drunk or sober. You don’t get advantage of someone like that, you just don’t.

121 HappyWarrior  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 12:36:13pm

re: #117 Pie-onist Overlord

Here’s an example of the Gun-Fucking Meme I was talking about.

[Embedded content]

Yeah that’s why they call it gun porn. Because that’s how people dress when they go shooting. What a sad mind though if you need to sezualize owning a gun.

122 chadu  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 12:36:36pm

re: #117 Pie-onist Overlord

I can only assume they are reminding people to take a gun to the firing range.

Otherwise, going to the firing range to fire your gun then would be silly.

Because you wouldn’t have your gun. At the firing range.

123 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 12:37:16pm

I see Greenwald’s already ramping up the campaign to declare himself a hero if he returns to the US to claim his award, because it’s so incredibly risky for him to come to this empire of evil.

124 GunstarGreen  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 12:37:48pm

re: #122 chadu

I can only assume they are reminding people to take a gun to the firing range.

Otherwise, going to the firing range to fire your gun then would be silly.

Because you wouldn’t have your gun. At the firing range.

Or, read another way: “one of these”, because women are things that you remember to take places.

What Republican War On Women?

125 Ian G.  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 12:37:48pm

re: #103 chadu

In what possible >fucking universe is someone who kills someone because he doesn’t like the other’s choice of music (volume/genre, whichever) a fucking >hero?

In a universe where it was once OK for white men to kill black kids for, say, whistling at a white woman (see Till, Emmitt) and there are people who think we should go back to that time (see Duck Dynasty idiots). That’s what it’s about.

What, you think a black man who shoots a white kid for loud music would be considered a hero by these knuckledraggers?

126 dog philosopher  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 12:37:52pm

GMOs as a general proposition i don’t really have a problem with, but legal control of GMOs as practiced by e.g. monsanto is fucked up

127 wrenchwench  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 12:37:54pm

re: #105 The Ghost of a Flea

Here’s a link to a book with, if I am not mistaken, a pro-GMO stance in the interests of feeding Africa.


The tweeter is the author.

128 Pie-onist Overlord  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 12:38:09pm

re: #121 HappyWarrior

Yeah that’s why they call it gun porn. Because that’s how people dress when they go shooting. What a sad mind though if you need to sezualize owning a gun.

Let’s say a girl dressed like that, did not have a gun, and got raped. Then the wingnuts would be all HURR HURR SHE DESERVED IT FOR BEING DRESSED LIKE A SLUT!!!1!!!!

129 HappyWarrior  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 12:38:50pm

re: #128 Pie-onist Overlord

Let’s say a girl dressed like that, did not have a gun, and got raped. Then the wingnuts would be all HURR HURR SHE DESERVED IT FOR BEING DRESSED LIKE A SLUT!!!1!!!!

Precisely. Maroons as a certain Bunny would say.

130 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 12:39:05pm

re: #122 chadu

I can only assume they are reminding people to take a gun to the firing range.

Otherwise, going to the firing range to fire your gun then would be silly.

Because you wouldn’t have your gun. At the firing range.

I have never forgotten to take along a gun when I go to the firing range. I have never forgotten to put on pants before I leave the house either. I am not a wingnut though, so the reminder may actually be in order.

131 chadu  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 12:39:15pm

Just had a thought:

If a gun is a form of penile compensation, why is it when you go to the range, everybody wants you to touch their gun, borrow it, try it out, fire it off, try to hit the target with it?

(cadavra)
Hmmmm, I wonder.
Oh, well.
(/cadavra)

132 b.d.  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 12:40:06pm

I haven’t seen any of this, he must be talking about a theintercept.org teleconference?

133 chadu  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 12:40:10pm

re: #124 GunstarGreen

Or, read another way: “one of >these”, because women are things that you remember to take places.

What Republican War On Women?

There was a wimmin in the picture? I was droolin’ over the GUN! HURR, HURR!

134 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 12:41:38pm
135 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 12:42:27pm

One of my favorite records:

136 Dr Lizardo  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 12:42:42pm

re: #117 Pie-onist Overlord

Here’s an example of the Gun-Fucking Meme I was talking about.

[Embedded content]

Yeah, I see that crap a lot. On the other hand, most of the gun humpers would shit all over themselves if they ran across these young ladies, who unlike the Barbie in the photo, are the real deal.

Kurdish fighters

137 Kragar  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 12:42:50pm

re: #131 chadu

Just had a thought:

If a gun is a form of penile compensation, why is it when you go to the range, everybody wants you to touch their gun, borrow it, try it out, fire it off, try to hit the target with it?

(cadavra)
Hmmmm, I wonder.
Oh, well.
(/cadavra)

I’m a scientist, I don’t believe in anything.

138 lawhawk  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 12:42:54pm

You know things are bad when Darth Vader facepalms

Gee, not the first time that some award (that heretofore no one has ever heard of) is awarded to someone who is undeserving of one.

Heck, there have been Pulitzers awarded to those who did not deserve it (and those are administered by Columbia U).

But to give an award to Greenwald et al for shoddy journalism that exposes national security secrets, means, and methods by an institution that also purports to train the very people who are looking to work at the NSA?

139 HappyWarrior  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 12:44:01pm

Greenwald I think relishes this “dissident” image he’s created of himself. Esquire had a quick interview with him last month and the first thing he says is “I know the NSA is recording this.” I mean damn it dude, are you always this self-righteous or do you just play a self-righteous douche? He wants the NSA story to be about him. He wants to be the victim of the NSA’s policies.

140 Pie-onist Overlord  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 12:45:04pm

re: #139 HappyWarrior

Greenwald I think relishes this “dissident” image he’s created of himself. Esquire had a quick interview with him last month and the first thing he says is “I know the NSA is recording this.” I mean damn it dude, are you always this self-righteous or do you just play a self-righteous douche? He wants the NSA story to be about him. He wants to be the victim of the NSA’s policies.

I would put “narcissistic” before “self-righteous.”

141 Kragar  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 12:45:36pm

All I can say about this whole Snowden/Greenwald thing is that so far, the 00# agents have really been a let down.

142 HappyWarrior  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 12:45:37pm

re: #136 Dr Lizardo

Yeah, I see that crap a lot. On the other hand, most of the gun humpers would shit all over themselves if they ran across these young ladies, who unlike the Barbie in the photo, are the real deal.

Kurdish fighters

Speaking of, I find it funny that they post stuff like that yet many of them think women are too delicate for combat. Honestly, I’m of the thought that if a woman feels she’s up for combat, she should be able to join. I’m sure there’s many women out there who would make much better front-line soldiers than I would.

143 HappyWarrior  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 12:46:49pm

re: #140 Pie-onist Overlord

I would put “narcissistic” before “self-righteous.”

Yeah that works better actually. He just relishes this idea that the US government wants him stopped at all costs when I imagine the upcoming March Madness basketball is more on POTUS’s mind then what GG is up to. He really isn’t as special he as he thinks he is.

144 Justanotherhuman  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 12:47:07pm

In which GG admits he’s perverse. We’ll never hear the end of this bullshit now.

145 Kragar  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 12:47:28pm

The same assholes who post about women owning guns are the same ones who piss themselves about women wanting to serve in front-line combat units.

146 chadu  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 12:48:01pm

re: #129 HappyWarrior

Precisely. Maroons as a certain Bunny would say.

FWIW, though Bugs Bunnyian usage of “maroon” is obviously a play on “moron,” I recently discovered that it can also be used as a racial slur for blah folks.

en.wikipedia.org
wordoriginsorg.yuku.com

Pedantic and improbable, but there you go.

147 HappyWarrior  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 12:48:19pm

re: #144 Justanotherhuman

In which GG admits he’s perverse. We’ll never hear the end of this bullshit now.

[Embedded content]

Uh no Glenn, roll the dice and try again. Oh you got the “I’m a narcissistic asshole card. Step ahead one space to Rio where you attend a party where everyone tells you that you’re as great as Woodward and Bernstein.”

148 Political Atheist  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 12:48:26pm

Gus,
How did you make those gray bars with the dropshadows-Images? Or a little code?

149 HappyWarrior  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 12:48:49pm

re: #146 chadu

FWIW, though Bugs Bunnyian usage of “maroon” is obviously a play on “moron,” I recently discovered that it can also be used as a racial slur for blah folks.

en.wikipedia.org
wordoriginsorg.yuku.com

Pedantic and improbable, but there you go.

Did not know that.

150 HappyWarrior  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 12:49:49pm

re: #145 Kragar

The same assholes who post about women owning guns are the same ones who piss themselves about women wanting to serve in front-line combat units.

Yeah. And those are women who are actually trained in firearms. Makes no frigging sense.

151 The Ghost of a Flea  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 12:49:50pm

re: #127 wrenchwench

Here’s a link to a book with, if I am not mistaken, a pro-GMO stance in the interests of feeding Africa.


The tweeter is the author.

The impact of futures trading and speculation on the grain market is going to be a big problem for the developing world here on out. We’ve already had a sampler of what high grain prices can do in the Arab Spring. The more pricey the basic basket of survival commodities gets, the less stable life gets for a lot of people.

152 chadu  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 12:50:07pm

re: #137 Kragar

I’m a scientist, I don’t believe in anything.

Well, again, I didn’t mean to throw a damper. Believe me that’s the last thing I’d like to throw. I don’t want to throw anything at all, really. But when folks are horribly mutilated, I feel it’s my job to tell others. We take our horrible mutilations seriously up in these parts.

153 Dr Lizardo  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 12:50:22pm

re: #142 HappyWarrior

Speaking of, I find it funny that they post stuff like that yet many of them think women are too delicate for combat. Honestly, I’m of the thought that if a woman feels she’s up for combat, she should be able to join. I’m sure there’s many women out there who would make much better front-line soldiers than I would.

If a woman feels she’s up to it, personally, I have no problem with it. Here’s a photo that would really make the RWNJ’s curl up into the fetal position.

Pistol Training

154 Ryan King  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 12:50:52pm
155 chadu  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 12:51:22pm

re: #142 HappyWarrior

Speaking of, I find it funny that they post stuff like that yet many of them think women are too delicate for combat. Honestly, I’m of the thought that if a woman feels she’s up for combat, she should be able to join. I’m sure there’s many women out there who would make much better front-line soldiers than I would.

Repeat after me: In. Co. Here. Ent.

156 Kragar  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 12:51:43pm

re: #152 chadu

Well, again, I didn’t mean to throw a damper. Believe me that’s the last thing I’d like to throw. I don’t want to throw anything at all, really. But when folks are horribly mutilated, I feel it’s my job to tell others. We take our horrible mutilations seriously up in these parts.

Always agree.

157 HappyWarrior  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 12:51:54pm

re: #154 Ryan King

[Embedded content]

Bozell can’t even write his own whiny screeeds? Scuse me but hahahahha hahahaha.

158 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 12:52:58pm

Wingnuts are bewildered and confused by the world around them. The pace of change has left them behind for good. The values they were taught are either rejected or so corrupted by commercialization as to be meaningless. Forces they do not understand swirl around them. People they were taught to hold in contempt are suddenly their bosses. Having been taught that self evaluation is self doubt, they refuse to look inward for a solution. Having been taught that knowledge and intellect are effeminate, and therefore weak, they do not seek to understand the complexities at a deeper level. Guns are power to them, and they are accessible. They become a kind of shortcut to putting the world back in order. This is going to get much worse before it gets better.

159 chadu  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 12:53:10pm

re: #149 HappyWarrior

Did not know that.

Yeah, found that out after the macaca incident when I was down in NoVa.

(Wait… that really wasn’t “recent,” was it? I’m old.)

160 William Barnett-Lewis  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 12:53:14pm

re: #153 Dr Lizardo

If a woman feels she’s up to it, personally, I have no problem with it. Here’s a photo that would really make the RWNJ’s curl up into the fetal position.

Pistol Training

Afghanistan? I ask since they’re shooting Beretta 92’s.

161 Justanotherhuman  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 12:53:28pm

Even Google plays up to the RWNJ fantasies. When I google “women with guns”, the first hit is this one:

women-with-guns.tumblr.com

second one is “The 20 Hottest Pictures of Women With Guns” (at “Mr. Conservative”).

162 HappyWarrior  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 12:54:24pm

re: #159 chadu

Yeah, found that out after the macaca incident when I was down in NoVa.

(Wait… that really wasn’t “recent,” was it? I’m old.)

Shit you’re making me feel old too. I mean I was only a year out of high school then.

163 chadu  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 12:54:53pm

re: #153 Dr Lizardo

If a woman feels she’s up to it, personally, I have no problem with it. Here’s a photo that would really make the RWNJ’s curl up into the fetal position.

Pistol Training

I think we’ve found a gun-fucking response meme for VB to tweet back!

Calling Gus!

164 Dr Lizardo  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 12:55:05pm

re: #160 William Barnett-Lewis

Afghanistan? I ask since they’re shooting Beretta 92’s.

I think so. What struck me immediately is the correct use. Whomever is training them knows what they’re doing.

165 Bear  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 12:55:11pm

re: #136 Dr Lizardo

Hope none blow off their hand. Not a good thing to have hand on muzzle.

166 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 12:56:47pm

re: #131 chadu

Just had a thought:

If a gun is a form of penile compensation, why is it when you go to the range, everybody wants you to touch their gun, borrow it, try it out, fire it off, try to hit the target with it?

(cadavra)
Hmmmm, I wonder.
Oh, well.
(/cadavra)

Closet cases. See “Fischer, Bryan,” who hates bears, gays and liberals, loves black men, and has that cuddly white hair.

167 chadu  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 12:56:54pm

re: #158 Shiplord Kirel

168 darthstar  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 12:57:04pm

XKCD’s strip today is “frequency”…

xkcd.com

It’s a collection of animated gifs in a table, but collectively it’s pretty cool.

169 Gus  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 12:57:15pm

Updated. Now with more bells and whistles.

170 Gus  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 12:57:38pm

re: #148 Political Atheist

Gus,
How did you make those gray bars with the dropshadows-Images? Or a little code?

PNG I made in Photoshop. Didn’t know the code. :D

171 A Mom Anon  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 12:59:16pm

re: #153 Dr Lizardo

I wish someone keep tweeting pics like that back at these ignoramuses. Over and over every time they start in with the guns are the only thing protecting the wimmens from de ebil debil rapey peoples.

172 chadu  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 1:00:09pm

re: #168 darthstar

XKCD’s strip today is “frequency”…

xkcd.com

It’s a collection of animated gifs in a table, but collectively it’s pretty cool.

[Embedded image]

A Sagittarius named Amelia drinks a soda = My favorite.

173 kirkspencer  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 1:00:47pm

re: #110 Charles Johnson

I think the prosecutor over-reached in the Dunn case. They almost certainly could have gotten a conviction for 2nd degree murder, but they went for 1st. Premeditation is a very high bar to clear.

Couple of things there.
First - Florida, any 1st degree requires passing through a grand jury that is supposed to be looking for ‘do you really have a case’.
Second - the court instructions allowed downgrading the charge: “not 1st, but 2d.”

Bottom line is that at least one member of the jury thought it wasn’t murder in any way, shape, or form.

174 The Ghost of a Flea  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 1:01:24pm

re: #160 William Barnett-Lewis

Afghanistan? I ask since they’re shooting Beretta 92’s.

Given the abayas, more likely one of the Gulf States, or Iran.

Afghanistan is now associated with the super-heavy burqa because of the Taliban, but if that’s an older photo they wouldn’t be wearing that style of cover. At least in my experience.

175 Political Atheist  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 1:02:27pm

re: #170 Gus

PNG I made in Photoshop. Didn’t know the code. :D

Looks great. Nice way to break up all the quotes.

176 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 1:02:55pm

Asteroid 2000 EM26 to Pass Near Earth Monday

An asteroid the size of three football fields is set to make a close brush of Earth on Monday (Feb. 17), and you can watch the flyby in a live webcast.

Near-Earth asteroid 2000 EM26 poses no threat of actually hitting the planet, but the online Slooh Space Camera will track the asteroid as it passes by Earth on Monday. The live Slooh webcast will start at 9 p.m. EST (0200 Feb. 18 GMT), and you can also watch the webcast directly through the Slooh website.

You can also watch the asteroid broadcast live on Space.com. Scientists estimate that 2000 EM26 is about 885 feet (270 meters) in diameter, and it is whizzing through the solar system at a break-neck 27,000 mph (12.37km/s), according to Slooh. During its closest approach, the asteroid will fly about 8.8 lunar distances from Earth.

177 Dr Lizardo  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 1:03:04pm

re: #171 A Mom Anon

I wish someone keep tweeting pics like that back at these ignoramuses. Over and over every time they start in with the guns are the only thing protecting the wimmens from de ebil debil rapey peoples.

Photos like these?

Yeah, if your average wingnut were actually confronted with this, they’d lose control of their bladders in a heartbeat.

178 EPR-radar  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 1:03:05pm

On the topic of the OP, is it possible journalism in the US has become so rotten that the lying advocacy of GG et al. is praise-worthy in comparison to journalists serving as stenographers?

My beef with GG isn’t really that he has an axe to grind, it’s that he is fundamentally dishonest in how he proceeds.

179 Gus  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 1:03:52pm

re: #175 Political Atheist

Looks great. Nice way to break up all the quotes.

Thanks. That’s what I trying to do.

180 Schadenboner  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 1:03:54pm

re: #160 William Barnett-Lewis

Afghanistan? I ask since they’re shooting Beretta 92’s.

Iran-Iraq war if I recall (I think that picture was from a National Geographic story from the mid-80s).

181 EPR-radar  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 1:03:59pm

re: #173 kirkspencer

Couple of things there.
First - Florida, any 1st degree requires passing through a grand jury that is supposed to be looking for ‘do you really have a case’.
Second - the court instructions allowed downgrading the charge: “not 1st, but 2d.”

Bottom line is that at least one member of the jury thought it wasn’t murder in any way, shape, or form.

IIRC, manslaughter was also an available alternative for that jury.

Words fail.

182 Ian G.  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 1:04:46pm

re: #136 Dr Lizardo

Ah, the Peshmerga. You know that scene in “Half Baked” where the guy quits his job and curses everyone out except one guy (“you’re cool”)? Yeah, that’s how I feel about the Middle East sometimes, where I want to curse out Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, etc, but tell the Kurds, “you’re cool”.

183 Justanotherhuman  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 1:05:04pm

All right, can you spot the oddity in this tweet?

184 Gus  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 1:07:01pm

re: #183 Justanotherhuman

All right, can you spot the oddity in this tweet?

[Embedded content]

Accomplices?

185 Ryan King  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 1:07:15pm

re: #173 kirkspencer

Couple of things there.
First - Florida, any 1st degree requires passing through a grand jury that is supposed to be looking for ‘do you really have a case’.
Second - the court instructions allowed downgrading the charge: “not 1st, but 2d.”

Bottom line is that at least one member of the jury thought it wasn’t murder in any way, shape, or form.

Last time I heard it discussed, in Florida premeditation can take place in a few moments, so a case could be made that it was a 1st Degree charge. But you’re right, why not 2nd?

Because somebody believed in Stand Your Ground, or was an actual racist.

186 Gus  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 1:07:39pm
187 Kragar  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 1:07:55pm

re: #182 Ian G.

Ah, the Peshmerga. You know that scene in “Half Baked” where the guy quits his job and curses everyone out except one guy (“you’re cool”)? Yeah, that’s how I feel about the Middle East sometimes, where I want to curse out Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, etc, but tell the Kurds, “you’re cool”.

My crowning moment at Comm battalion is when I was actually able to do this as I left to join Headquarter Support Battalion.

188 kirkspencer  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 1:08:52pm

re: #182 Ian G.

Ah, the Peshmerga. You know that scene in “Half Baked” where the guy quits his job and curses everyone out except one guy (“you’re cool”)? Yeah, that’s how I feel about the Middle East sometimes, where I want to curse out Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, etc, but tell the Kurds, “you’re cool”.

Even there - which Kurds? (see PKK for example. And some of the things done by the KDP among other Peshmerga organizations.)

189 Ian G.  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 1:10:42pm

re: #188 kirkspencer

Even there - which Kurds? (see PKK for example. And some of the things done by the KDP among other Peshmerga organizations.)

Good point. I was thinking the PKK is certainly as bad as anyone in the Middle East.

Sigh…there really are to few and far between good guys in the Middle East.

190 b.d.  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 1:11:56pm

re: #183 Justanotherhuman

All right, can you spot the oddity in this tweet?

[Embedded content]

The fact that Gellman is living in the US and Glenn is getting his groupies to wet their pants over the claim that Glenn and Poitras would be Gitmoed if they set foot in America?

191 Gus  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 1:15:18pm
192 Pie-onist Overlord  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 1:17:59pm
193 freetoken  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 1:18:15pm

re: #168 darthstar

Are that many shoes really sold in Phoenix?

194 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 1:19:35pm
195 Gus  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 1:19:49pm

DSL is on so I’m less cranky.

196 Gus  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 1:23:29pm
197 Backwoods_Sleuth  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 1:24:55pm
198 freetoken  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 1:25:25pm

This Spiegel headline caught my eye:

Evolution: 90 percent of Americans believe in creator

Turns out it is about this mostly-non-event:

Religious and Scientific Communities May Be Less Combative Than Commonly Portrayed

Which is being pushed by Rice U.:

Misconceptions of science and religion found in new study

Now, this is not a new thing - the person behind this is Elaine Howard Ecklund, who did something similar a couple of years ago, which got Jerry Coyne going:

Elaine Ecklund continues to whitewash the atheism of scientists

As Coyne pointed out at the time, Ecklund got funding from Templeton. Templeton has a long history of trying to syncretize science with religions of various stripes.

Still, this latest headline got the attention of Glenn Beck’s crowd:

Science vs. Religion: Study’s Surprising Finds About Christianity and Science

I see Ecklund’s attempt as somewhat flawed, as she emphasizes form and not function or substance.

199 wrenchwench  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 1:28:18pm

I missed this bit from the FT Greenwald hagiography.

Given how much cash Omidyar is plunging into this venture, one of the surprising things is how little he knew Greenwald. They might have had some interaction on Twitter, Greenwald says, but they had never spoken with each other before Omidyar proposed the idea. The politics of the new organisation will have a distinctly leftwing feel.

200 BeenHereAwhile  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 1:28:19pm

re: #136 Dr Lizardo

Yeah, I see that crap a lot. On the other hand, most of the gun humpers would shit all over themselves if they ran across these young ladies, who unlike the Barbie in the photo, are the real deal.

Kurdish fighters

Female Peshmerga.

Don’t see any Niqabs here.

201 Lidane  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 1:28:47pm
202 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 1:30:21pm

re: #197 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

The very worst thing about war is the children. There were often kids around in Vietnam, and always in Somalia and Iraq. If they weren’t killed or hurt themselves, they saw things no child (indeed, no adult) should have to see. You wanted to pick them up and comfort them, but you hesitated because it might encourage them to reach out to the next soldier who came along, with results you couldn’t predict.

203 wrenchwench  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 1:30:32pm

re: #198 freetoken

Jerry Coyne congratulated my brother (a former advisee at U Chicago) on Facebook when my niece was born. Over the weekend, she was baptized. I don’t expect a similar congrats…

204 darthstar  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 1:40:54pm

205 Justanotherhuman  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 1:41:49pm

re: #199 wrenchwench

I missed this bit from the FT Greenwald hagiography.

Incredible! I think I’ll open a Twitter acct just to ask Omidyar to buy me a car to replace my current POS w/almost 300K miles on it. That won’t cost $250M and at least he’ll get his money’s worth and gratitude with a cherry on top. : )

206 The Ghost of a Flea  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 1:43:49pm

re: #204 darthstar

Hold on.

If I had access to flying monkeys, why would I ever not unleash them?

207 Gus  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 1:44:42pm

What the heck is a George Polk award?

Me before last week.

208 Justanotherhuman  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 1:45:04pm

Damn these people. This is the most 1984-ish thing this year.

Conservative group’s anti-union effort to target U.S. auto plants

cnbc.com

WASHINGTON, Feb 17 (Reuters) - A conservative group that helped defeat an organizing campaign by the United Auto Workers in Tennessee will take its anti-union fight to other auto plants in the South, its leaders said on Monday.

“The Center for Worker Freedom, which is linked to anti-tax advocate Grover Norquist, plans to renew its battle against the UAW at plants in Alabama and Mississippi where the union wants to organize.

“Those are likely the next big ones for the UAW,” said Matt Patterson, executive director of the center. “We’ll be there.”

209 dog philosopher  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 1:45:50pm

re: #206 The Ghost of a Flea

Hold on.

If I had access to flying monkeys, why would I ever not unleash them?

they tend to eat up all of the spare purina flying monkey chow

210 The Ghost of a Flea  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 1:48:53pm

re: #209 dog philosopher

they tend to eat up all of the spare purina flying monkey chow

We’re out of milk? Unleash the flying monkeys!

Don’t have a designated driver? Unleash the flying monkeys!

…totally worth it.

211 Ian G.  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 1:51:20pm

Aaaaand the 5 boroughs are under a winter weather advisory from 4 am to 4 pm tomorrow. 2-4 additional inches of snow piled on top of the unholy mess of snow and ice that the last 4 storms have left behind. *headdesk*

52 degrees on Friday…..52 degrees on Friday…..52 degrees on Friday…..

212 Justanotherhuman  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 1:52:37pm

re: #199 wrenchwench

I missed this bit from the FT Greenwald hagiography.

Gawd, I start reading that piece, but got about 1/4 down and felt so nauseated I couldn’t go on…

What a fawning piece of crap, even down to the use of celsius for the temperature, and BTW, eating fried food and lots of bread on a very hot day will make you sick, too. The “we are cosmopolitan dudebros” feel to that piece had me reeling.

213 lawhawk  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 1:54:48pm

Also receiving a Polk award was a journalist from The Record who helped expose the GWB vendetta - lane closure scandal.

But let’s not kid ourselves either. The Greenwald cabal has gotten so much of the story wrong, that it’s not funny.

Besides the fact that they’ve misread/mischaracterized document after document, they’ve also gone full-metal supposition about violation of US law and civil rights, when the documents suggest that the NSA complies with FISA and federal law with regular oversight.

Then there’s the Greenwald claims that these documents don’t harm US national security, when his own reporting indicates the opposite. That includes claims by him that Admiral Clapper lied about how the Snowden documents harmed national security and harmed operations to track terrorists with various digital data. Greenwald’s own reporting confirms Clapper’s very statements by indicating the terrorists have changed tactics to avoid detection by the very means/methods that Greenwald’s earlier reporting had exposed.

Or, loet’s take this past weekend’s big story. You know, the one about how a US law firm was spied upon.

Except that the US wasn’t doing the spying. It was the Aussies trying to figure out what the Indonesians were doing, and the US law firm was representing the Indonesians. Nothing stops the Aussies or anyone else (foreign countries) from spying on US individuals or businesses unless the US government shuts down those ops in counter surveillance.

The NSA connection? It was when the Aussies contacted the NSA on protocol on how to address attorney client privilege in redacting key information about the law firm. Yeah, I know, it’s real scandalous.

Mind you, there’s an interesting legal discussion that could be had about how national security and spycraft intersect the legal business and representing clients (and attorney client privilege). But that discussion isn’t nearly as newsworthy as Greenwald, Poitras, and the rest of his group thinks it is.

214 Lidane  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 2:01:18pm

re: #211 Ian G.

215 Gus  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 2:02:17pm
216 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 2:02:30pm

re: #213 lawhawk

It’s a little depressing to see these paranoid, deliberately deceptive memes being created and instantly adopted by the rest of the media. Greenwald seems to have found some kind of bubble that insulates him from logical criticism, which is weird because he’s such a major asshole you’d think people wouldn’t be so afraid to dig deeper into what he’s doing.

This won’t last forever - he’s such an egomaniac he’s almost certain to do something eventually that will blow back on him, especially now that he’s in the big money realm.

217 Eclectic Cyborg  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 2:03:59pm
218 Lidane  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 2:04:34pm

Ready! Fire! Aim!

219 dog philosopher  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 2:08:03pm

re: #217 Eclectic Cyborg

This is awesome:

What if Star Wars were set in a 1980s High school (w/ drawings)

Nerd-droids

harrumph

220 lawhawk  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 2:08:23pm

re: #216 Charles Johnson

Journalists are supposed to be critical thinkers, but the herd mentality is driving this to real bad places. And Greenwald’s going to milk this for as much as possible, and he’s taken the PT Barnum method of journalism. Suckers born every minute. There’s just enough fact in Greenwald’s reporting to be interesting or newsy, but it’s so laden with opinion and innuendo that the facts get lost. It’s all about the narrative.

Greenwald also takes on the classic personality of a bully/troll whenever anyone dares question his reporting, interpretation, or even recitation of facts about the Snowden docs.

221 dog philosopher  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 2:09:45pm

re: #218 Lidane

‘Establishment Republicans Want the IRS to Go After the Tea Party’

forget it, jake, it’s republican-town

222 Justanotherhuman  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 2:13:34pm

re: #216 Charles Johnson

It’s a little depressing to see these paranoid, deliberately deceptive memes being created and instantly adopted by the rest of the media. Greenwald seems to have found some kind of bubble that insulates him from logical criticism, which is weird because he’s such a major asshole you’d think people wouldn’t be so afraid to dig deeper into what he’s doing.

This won’t last forever - he’s such an egomaniac he’s almost certain to do something eventually that will blow back on him, especially now that he’s in the big money realm.

Yes, from that FT story, this sounds pretty deceptive, since Greenwald will soon find out what limitations are going to be imposed upon him and his cohorts. That kind of money simply isn’t given freely like this for anyone to do their “own” thing.

“Beyond that, Omidyar’s intentions remain unclear. “He does not want to replicate what others are doing. He does not want to copy the New York Times or Washington Post,” Greenwald says of his new patron. “He could have bought them if that is what he wanted to do. So I am convinced that he wants to do something fundamentally different. His vision of what he wants to do entails this serious commitment to truly independent and adversarial journalism.” Greenwald adds: “What is interesting here is that Pierre is going to end up funding people he cannot control, by design.” (my emphasis)

I really think Greenwald is either stupid or naive to think he will remain totally unchecked.

223 lawhawk  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 2:14:11pm

re: #218 Lidane

Never mind that the IRS didn’t do what the GOP claimed it did - it actually sought to administer the tax law as Congress enacted it to make sure that only entities entitled to get the tax benefits got them. Having limited capabilities to do that job made the IRS take some shortcuts, but it wasn’t because they singled out TP entities. A whole range of political entities were checked.

But the fix is one that the GOP doesn’t want. Eliminate the nonprofit status for those entities altogether, or eliminate tax breaks for political entities.

224 Ian G.  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 2:14:42pm

re: #218 Lidane

Yes, please. Do spend the next 8 months destroying each other, Republicans.

225 Gus  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 2:15:42pm
226 Gus  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 2:17:34pm
227 austin_blue  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 2:17:34pm

re: #40 Shiplord Kirel

They left out Austin.

Of course they did! Doesn’t fit the prejudice.

228 austin_blue  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 2:19:31pm

re: #216 Charles Johnson

It’s a little depressing to see these paranoid, deliberately deceptive memes being created and instantly adopted by the rest of the media. Greenwald seems to have found some kind of bubble that insulates him from logical criticism, which is weird because he’s such a major asshole you’d think people wouldn’t be so afraid to dig deeper into what he’s doing.

This won’t last forever - he’s such an egomaniac he’s almost certain to do something eventually that will blow back on him, especially now that he’s in the big money realm.

You’re right (heh) of course. He’s got a huge case of Short Man Syndrome.

229 Ian G.  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 2:20:03pm

re: #214 Lidane

The usual winter pattern in NYC is big snowstorm, days in the 40s, everything melts, you have clear ground for a while, and then another big snowstorm hits. Lather, rinse, repeat.

But this winter, the whole “days in the 40s” part went away, so we’ve just had storm after storm add more to the existing pile. Walk around in the park and you can actually feel your foot go through the various layers, since they have different consistencies, with different coatings of ice between.

That’s fine for a park, but the streets just get nasty and slippery, and the street sweeping has been suspended for 2 weeks, so they’re just turning into piles of garbage. And people think the snow is license to not clean up after their dogs….

We really, really need the big melt. It’s coming this week. It just can’t get here fast enough.

230 chadu  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 2:20:04pm

An Open Letter From a Death Star Architect
dorkly.com

Now — let’s talk a little about what happened at the Battle of Yavin IV. Some farmboy nobody flies down a trench, shoots some bombs out of his X-Wing straight ahead, the bombs take a 90 DEGREE TURN and then they go EXACTLY down the tiny exhaust port, go down miles of insanely narrow pipe and hit the Death Star’s core, blowing it up.

Notice anything weird there?

First off, “exhaust” doesn’t mean shit gets SUCKED DOWN. It means shit gets PUSHED UP. That’s what it is — it’s expelling gas. Outward. As in, not in a direction that would suck down a bomb. If anything, it should have pushed the bombs UP.

So, how’s the bomb take a right angle turn down it? Hmmmm oh I dunno OH THAT’S RIGHT WE LIVE IN A GALAXY WITH MAGIC SPACE WIZARDS.

231 lawhawk  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 2:24:08pm

re: #229 Ian G.

Oh, and 3-6 tomorrow for NYC metro. Less in NYC and LI and Jersey shore.

At least later this week we’ll finally get the warmer temps to melt away much of the snow, and folks can take stock of the damage. Not going to be fun.

232 dog philosopher  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 2:24:12pm

re: #226 Gus

“UN compares #NorthKorea to Nazi regime”

definitely still a member of the Axis of Beibers

233 Kragar  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 2:24:53pm

re: #230 chadu

>An Open Letter From a Death Star Architect
dorkly.com


Star Wars: A Long Time Ago, in a Hive Far Far Away?

This should be obvious from the title card. We’re a long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away. Human beings evolved on this planet, Sol 3, over the last sixty million years or so depending on how you count. If we don’t want to go all “Chariots of the Gods?” we have to throw out the notion that the people represented by human actors in Star Wars movies are in fact human. They’re something else.

Why represent them as human? Let’s assume that the Star Wars movies are dramatizations of real history: that Luke, Leia, Han et. al. actually existed in a galaxy long, long ago (etc.), and that George Lucas accessed this history via the Force and wanted to represent it on film. Star Wars tells the story of a dominant-species empire arising from a pluralistic society, then being overthrown by courageous rebels and warrior monks. Lucas had to cast this drama with human actors, and the obvious choice was to use unmodified humans to represent the most common species.

While convenient, this approach does present one problem: watching the Original Trilogy, we assume that the ‘humans’ of the GFFA (Galaxy Far Far Away) are biologically and sociologically identical to Sol 3 humans. When obviously they’re not! In fact, I think a few important context clues present a very different picture of the dominant race of the Original Trilogy.

234 Justanotherhuman  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 2:26:32pm

re: #222 Justanotherhuman

And $72 for lunch for 2 which obviously the writer, Dyer, paid for (from an expense acct, no doubt). Didn’t include tip, if one was paid.

Total, (Brazilian) R$171.58 = US$71.93.

Haha, I don’t spend much more than that for a week feeding 3 people.

And they have cover charges in restaurants? Was there a floor show? : )

235 Gus  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 2:26:34pm
236 darthstar  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 2:27:47pm

Nice balls, buddy.

237 austin_blue  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 2:27:48pm

re: #233 Kragar


Star Wars: A Long Time Ago, in a Hive Far Far Away?

Convergent Evolution, obviously, or a parallel universe.

238 Gus  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 2:27:57pm
239 Kragar  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 2:28:51pm

re: #237 austin_blue

Convergent Evolution, obviously, or a parallel universe.

Nope. Bugs, the whole lot of them.

240 jaunte  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 2:31:25pm

re: #28 Pie-onist Overlord

He forgot to include a lot of those liberal zones we call “cities.”

241 dog philosopher  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 2:31:45pm

re: #231 lawhawk

Oh, and 3-6 tomorrow for NYC metro. Less in NYC and LI and Jersey shore.

At least later this week we’ll finally get the warmer temps to melt away much of the snow, and folks can take stock of the damage. Not going to be fun.

i grew up in nyc

exactly 5 months from now it’ll all be kvetching about how insanely hot and humid the weather is

242 Gus  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 2:32:44pm
243 Romantic Heretic  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 2:33:14pm

I’m thinking that even here in Canada I’m seeing the effect of the end of Net Neutrality in the States.

My wife and I were trying to watch a TV show on line. I dig up a link, send it to her over Skype and we watch it together. We’ve several sites we use.

None of them worked properly. We’d get blank screens, slow loading and other problems. We finally gave up.

I wonder how loud the screaming is going to be when the rest of the Net is as hard to access as it was for us this afternoon?

244 jaunte  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 2:33:16pm

re: #242 Gus

Could be a fragmentation alphabet.

245 Gus  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 2:34:16pm

246 Gus  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 2:37:13pm

Godwin. //

247 lawhawk  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 2:37:57pm

re: #241 dog philosopher

I’ve lived in NYC or Albany my whole life. I love snow. I hate ice. And that’s what so much of this stuff has become. The ice sucks.

And yeah, folks will be bitchin about the heat waves that come later this year.

It’s the extremes that truly suck. We do seem to be having more on both ends.

248 lawhawk  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 2:38:42pm

re: #244 jaunte

Could be a fragmentation alphabet.

Death by a million papercuts. Or a stray staple. /

249 Justanotherhuman  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 2:39:45pm

re: #184 Gus

Accomplices?

re: #190 b.d.

The fact that Gellman is living in the US and Glenn is getting his groupies to wet their pants over the claim that Glenn and Poitras would be Gitmoed if they set foot in America?

Actually, no, aside from the fact that she’s the only female “honcho” in the group is the fact that she doesn’t appear to do any social media, like Twitter. She would have had a hashtag if she had an acct, wouldn’t she?

I would suspect she is probably the most tech illiterate of that bunch. Which may be the reason Miranda was sent as errand boy to Berlin.

250 darthstar  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 2:43:39pm

Okay Gus…you can stop playing with your balls now.

251 austin_blue  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 2:45:57pm

re: #247 lawhawk

I’ve lived in NYC or Albany my whole life. I love snow. I hate ice. And that’s what so much of this stuff has become. The ice sucks.

And yeah, folks will be bitchin about the heat waves that come later this year.

It’s the extremes that truly suck. We do seem to be having more on both ends.

When I was living in the UP of Michigan, it was an honest winter. It got cold and stayed cold. It snowed. We used cross country skis to get around town instead of walking. We had “winter cars” which were passed down whenever anyone transferred to another base. I bought mine for $800. It was named “Ever So Dently” because every quarter panel looked like it had been beaten to hell by a sledgehammer. The floorboards had long since rusted out and had been replaced by plywood. But it ran, had a heater that worked, and disappeared in May, when the snow finally melted off.

252 Gus  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 2:46:10pm
253 austin_blue  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 2:47:31pm

re: #252 Gus

[Embedded content]

Obviously, an Arial font…

254 dell*nix  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 2:48:43pm

re: #84 Pie-onist Overlord

That revolver would be more effective as a deterent with some ammo. A bluff with an empty revolver is a bad choice. A semi-auto would be a better choice for that.

255 darthstar  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 2:49:15pm

re: #253 austin_blue

Obviously, an Arial font…

That was pretty bold.

256 PhillyPretzel  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 2:51:01pm

re: #247 lawhawk

NE Philly forecast does not look too good. :(

257 dog philosopher  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 2:53:18pm

re: #247 lawhawk

I’ve lived in NYC or Albany my whole life. I love snow. I hate ice. And that’s what so much of this stuff has become. The ice sucks.

And yeah, folks will be bitchin about the heat waves that come later this year.

It’s the extremes that truly suck. We do seem to be having more on both ends.

i miss living in nyc sometimes, when i get tired of the california 10 months of 65 degrees and sunny and, like, be mellow, man

when i last lived in ny when i was in my 30s i made up my mind to only complain about cold weather, and to just dig the july/aug ninety degrees and 100 percent humidity, just dig it man

258 Gus  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 2:57:24pm
259 darthstar  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 3:01:15pm

re: #256 PhillyPretzel

NE Philly forecast does not look too good. :(

I was gassing the car this morning, and I heard this big pounding sound coming from across the road, so I walked across the highway while my tank filled and caught this.
Little cove under Highway 1 in Montara, CA.

260 Killgore Trout  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 3:01:50pm

Update: Stand Your Ground played zero role in the Michael Dunn “loud music” case.

Because the jury convicted Dunn of three counts of attempted murder, it is certain that the jury determined that Dunn was not acting in lawful self-defense. Stand Your Ground is a rule about one detail of when self-defense is lawful.

Accordingly, the assertion that Stand Your Ground may have been a reason why the jury hung on the first degree murder charge is totally implausible. The three convictions for second-degree murder show that the jury had determined there was no self-defense; ergo, jury confusion about self-defense was not the reason why the jury deadlocked on first-degree murder.

Moreover, Stand Your Ground played no part in the legal theory of the case, as presented by the prosecution or the defense.

261 Justanotherhuman  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 3:01:59pm

OK, I admit I’m an art philistine.

I don’t condone what this asshole did, but at the same time, I have to say that I don’t get these “pots” at all. Did these vases, purported to be 7,000 yrs old, actually look like this when found? Or did Weiwei himself destroy their archeological value by painting them?

Local Artist Destroys $1 Million Ai Weiwei Vase At Museum “In Protest”

miami.cbslocal.com

262 palomino  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 3:02:24pm

re: #28 Pie-onist Overlord

[Embedded content]

Funny thing is, those blue states with the circles are wealthier than most of the red states, and have higher quality of life indicators.

Furthermore, a lot of blue states are colored red on this map. About a half dozen states that went for Obama twice are colored red.

263 Lidane  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 3:05:20pm

re: #260 Killgore Trout

Except for the part where it was part of the jury instructions.

But hey, whatever gets your concern trolling boner going.

264 gwangung  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 3:07:35pm

re: #260 Killgore Trout

I don’t think you quite grasp law.

265 Lidane  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 3:08:21pm

re: #264 gwangung

I don’t think you quite grasp law reality.

FTFY

266 Killgore Trout  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 3:10:07pm

re: #263 Lidane

Except for the part where it was part of the jury instructions.

But hey, whatever gets your concern trolling boner going.

I know Media Matters and progressives in general have an issue with the law, but it seems this is another case where it doesn’t apply.
No, Florida’s Stand Your Ground Law Did Not Determine Either Zimmerman or Dunn Cases

Criticism of Stand Your Ground would be more effective if it was based on factually accurate claims.

267 Gus  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 3:11:06pm
268 Lidane  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 3:12:18pm
269 Kragar  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 3:12:41pm
270 austin_blue  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 3:14:31pm

re: #267 Gus

[Embedded content]

“This will be completely ineffective as we open a New Font (sic) in the War On Terrorism!”

271 Lidane  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 3:14:55pm

But hey, let’s just ignore the fact that Stand Your Ground allows a white guy to unload his gun into a car of unarmed black teenagers and only get convicted of attempted murder despite the fact he killed a kid.

Let’s also ignore the fact that the law is racist, since a black woman who fired warning shots in clear self-defense from her abuser got 20 years.

272 blueraven  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 3:17:11pm

re: #260 Killgore Trout

Update: Stand Your Ground played zero role in the Michael Dunn “loud music” case.

washingtonpost.com">washingtonpost.com”>

Bullshit

Florida’s standard jury instruction 3.6(f) on self defense makes the giving of this instruction mandatory:

No duty to retreat. § 776.013(3), Fla. Stat. See Novak v. State 974 So. 2d 520 (Fla. 4th DCA 2008) regarding unlawful activity. There is no duty to retreat where the defendant was not engaged in any unlawful activity other than the crime(s) for which the defendant asserts the justification.
If the defendant [was not engaged in an unlawful activity and] was attacked in any place where [he] [she] had a right to be, [he] [she] had no duty to retreat and had the right to stand [his] [her] ground and meet force with force, including deadly force, if [he] [she] reasonably believed that it was necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to [himself] [herself] [another] or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.

This is in the jury instructions for self defense

273 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 3:18:13pm

Hey Gus - I replaced your hard line dividers with a dashed-line divider, just to make it fit the overall LGF look a bit better. Hope you don’t mind! You can check the source to see the code - it’s very simple.

274 Lidane  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 3:18:34pm

re: #266 Killgore Trout

You have no concept of law, reality, or anything resembling factual accuracy.

Fuck off and take your concern trolling with you.

275 Gus  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 3:24:02pm

re: #273 Charles Johnson

Hey Gus - I replaced your hard line dividers with a dashed-line divider, just to make it fit the overall LGF look a bit better. Hope you don’t mind! You can check the source to see the code - it’s very simple.

OK. Thanks. Any way to get solid ones with line weights?

276 dog philosopher  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 3:24:19pm

Dept. of Historiae Ex Culo

“The aim of liberalism’s founding writers and thinkers — such as Herbert Croly, Randolph Bourne, H.G. Wells, Sinclair Lewis and H.L. Mencken — was to create an American aristocracy of sorts, to provide the same sense of hierarchy and ­order long associated with European statism,” he writes.

277 Varek Raith  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 3:24:43pm

re: #275 Gus

OK. Thanks. Any way to get solid ones with line weights?

Magic marker.
/Helping

278 gwangung  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 3:27:36pm

re: #266 Killgore Trout

I know Media Matters and progressives in general have an issue with the law, but it seems this is another case where it doesn’t apply.
No, Florida’s Stand Your Ground Law Did Not Determine Either Zimmerman or Dunn Cases

Criticism of Stand Your Ground would be more effective if it was based on factually accurate claims.

This is still incorrect as Stand Your Ground changes the parameters of self defense. This is incontrovertible.

But…please…proceed, sir. It amuses us.

279 Justanotherhuman  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 3:30:16pm

re: #272 blueraven

Bullshit

Florida’s standard jury instruction 3.6(f) on self defense >makes the giving of this instruction mandatory:

>This is in the jury instructions for self defense

That statute covers home protection including that little add-on at the bottom, vehicles. 776.013 Home protection; use of deadly force; presumption of fear of death or great bodily harm.

flsenate.gov

At no time was it proved that those kids attempted to enter Dunn’s vehicle.

(a) The person against whom the defensive force was used was in the process of unlawfully and forcefully entering, or had unlawfully and forcibly entered, a dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle, or if that person had removed or was attempting to remove another against that person’s will from the dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle; and

280 Varek Raith  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 3:30:20pm

Trollololo.

281 darthstar  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 3:33:14pm
282 Killgore Trout  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 3:34:04pm

re: #278 gwangung

This is still incorrect as Stand Your Ground changes the parameters of self defense. This is incontrovertible.

But…please…proceed, sir. It amuses us.

Ok, from the ABC article….

But the duty to retreat was not an issue in either Dunn or Zimmerman. In both cases the defendants argued that deadly force was used because they “reasonably” believed that it was necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily injury. That, is at its core, no different than the law in almost every other state.

I’m agnostic about SYG but this seems to be accurate to me. Even though the judge is required to include the SYG stuff in his jury instructions it doesn’t seem to have been an issue.

283 Justanotherhuman  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 3:35:25pm

So how would this have shook out if Jordan had a weapon (assuming he was an adult, which he wasn’t, of course)?

flsenate.gov

(2)(d)(3)𠀺 person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.

Dunn used his gun with reckless abandon, perceiving a threat that was not there and killed one kid with the intent of killing others. Emptied his gun on a car full of unarmed teenagers. Would he have done the same if those kids had been white?

I don’t think so.

284 blueraven  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 3:35:42pm

re: #279 Justanotherhuman

That statute covers home protection including that little add-on at the bottom, vehicles. 776.013 Home protection; use of deadly force; presumption of fear of death or great bodily harm.

flsenate.gov

At no time was it proved that those kids attempted to enter Dunn’s vehicle.

(a) The person against whom the defensive force was used was in the process of unlawfully and forcefully entering, or had unlawfully and forcibly entered, a dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle, or if that person had removed or was attempting to remove another against that person’s will from the dwelling, residence, or occupied vehicle; and

From the link section 3

(3)𠀺 person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.

285 blueraven  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 3:36:38pm

re: #282 Killgore Trout

Ok, from the ABC article….

I’m agnostic about SYG but this seems to be accurate to me. Even though the judge is required to include the SYG stuff in his jury instructions it doesn’t seem to have been an issue.

How is it not an issue when the jury is instructed to use it?

286 Lidane  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 3:37:04pm

re: #282 Killgore Trout

Even though the judge is required to include the SYG stuff in his jury instructions it doesn’t seem to have been an issue.

Youtube Video

287 darthstar  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 3:37:15pm
288 Justanotherhuman  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 3:37:32pm

re: #284 blueraven

From the link section 3

(3)�� person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and >who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.

See mine above yours. Those kids were the ones attacked, not Dunn.

289 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 3:39:11pm
290 Killgore Trout  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 3:39:18pm

re: #285 blueraven

How is it not an issue when the jury is instructed to use it?

It’s a logical error. The judge could instruct the jury to acquit if the defendant wears a blue hat. If the defendant is not wearing a hat the instruction doesn’t effect the case.

291 palomino  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 3:39:26pm

re: #282 Killgore Trout

Ok, from the ABC article….

I’m agnostic about SYG but this seems to be accurate to me. Even though the judge is required to include the SYG stuff in his jury instructions it doesn’t seem to have been an issue.

So the jury hears an instruction from the judge on SYG, but all of them know to disregard this portion of the instructions because…what exactly?

Kinda hard to unring that bell, don’t you think?

292 Killgore Trout  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 3:40:26pm

The ABC article is quite good and makes a very strong case.

293 Justanotherhuman  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 3:41:18pm

re: #285 blueraven

How is it not an issue when the jury is instructed to use it?

I think we’re really on the same page here. I see Dunn as the aggressor, though. An adult with a gun going down on a car full of kids who he knew, or should have known, weren’t old enough to be in possession of a weapon at any rate.

The SYG law is fast substituting fear for fact. And fear and weapons are a deadly combination.

294 Killgore Trout  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 3:41:37pm

re: #291 palomino

So the jury hears an instruction from the judge on SYG, but all of them know to disregard this portion of the instructions because…what exactly?

Kinda hard to unring that bell, don’t you think?

From ABC….

Others mistakenly claim these are “stand your ground” cases because the entire self defense statute is read to Florida jurors with the stand your ground language included. But, of course, reading jury instructions with some language that is inapplicable to the case at hand is common in all types of cases and says nothing about whether the controversial aspects of the law are at issue.

295 blueraven  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 3:41:40pm

re: #290 Killgore Trout

It’s a logical error. The judge could instruct the jury to acquit if the defendant wears a blue hat. If the defendant is not wearing a hat the instruction doesn’t effect the case.

LOL…that is weak even for you.

The SYG law is ingrained in self defense in FL. One need not invoke it to benefit from it.

296 freetoken  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 3:42:55pm

re: #282 Killgore Trout

Isn’t that written by the Dan Abrams who started Mediaite among other media enterprises?

297 blueraven  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 3:43:27pm

re: #294 Killgore Trout

From ABC….

I bet you could easily find other “legal experts” who would disagree, but…

298 makeitstop  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 3:43:40pm

Is there a line for people who would like an ‘ignore’ button? If so, point me to it.

299 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 3:45:14pm

re: #290 Killgore Trout

It’s a logical error. The judge could instruct the jury to acquit if the defendant wears a blue hat. If the defendant is not wearing a hat the instruction doesn’t effect the case.

Zimmerman willfully and against police advice created the very hazard he then claimed a need to react to. You really don’t think that a jury that doesn’t receive the SYG instruction doesn’t view his legal obligation to retreat differently?

300 Gus  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 3:45:37pm

re: #296 freetoken

Isn’t that written by the Dan Abrams who started Mediaite among other media enterprises?

Yes. You can read this exciting exchange here.

301 Lidane  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 3:46:14pm

re: #298 makeitstop

Is there a line for people who would like an ‘ignore’ button? If so, point me to it.

I’ll join you. I’ll even bring snacks while we wait in line.

302 freetoken  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 3:46:28pm

re: #300 Gus

Yes. You can read this exciting exchange here.

I’ll try to contain my excitement.

303 Killgore Trout  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 3:46:34pm

re: #296 freetoken

Isn’t that written by the Dan Abrams who started Mediaite among other media enterprises?

Yup, same guy
abcnews.go.com

304 klys  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 3:46:55pm

re: #301 Lidane

I’ll join you. I’ll even bring snacks while we wait in line.

/pitches tent, sets up lawn chairs

305 EmmaAnne  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 3:47:12pm

re: #32 thedopefishlives

I note with some satisfaction that the “liberal quarantine” areas include the vast majority of the places where people actually WANT to live. States like California, Minnesota, Washington, Hawaii, and New York.

And frankly, they can’t have Colorado back, either.

306 urbanmeemaw  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 3:47:31pm

re: #194 NJDhockeyfan

He lost me at “I’m a huge fan of Glenn Greenwald’s work”.

307 Gus  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 3:47:41pm

re: #302 freetoken

I’ll try to contain my excitement.

As will I. Mah tooth hurts. Well, it’s sort of a tooth.

308 palomino  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 3:48:18pm

re: #292 Killgore Trout

The ABC article is quite good and makes a very strong case.

The article claims that SYG couldn’t have had anything to do with the verdict because Dunn was found guilty on three counts of attempted murder.

Not necessarily true. If the jury believed Dunn thought Davis had a gun, they might be stuck on his count alone. Whereas they would have little trouble finding Dunn guilty of attempted murder for indiscriminately shooting at three people who didn’t have guns.

And, since SYG is simply a specific form of self-defense, it’s hard to cleanly separate the two as the author does.

309 Justanotherhuman  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 3:48:48pm

re: #290 Killgore Trout

It’s a logical error. The judge could instruct the jury to acquit if the defendant wears a blue hat. If the defendant is not wearing a hat the instruction doesn’t effect the case.

No, it’s a technical error, and one that would normally raise an appeal. However, appeals on the part of the prosecution are very seldom done because of the prohibition against double jeopardy, or prosecution for the same crime.

However, depending on the part of the jury instructions pertaining to the first degree murder charge, if it was part of that, it could have a bearing on whether or not the prosecution wants to recharge Dunn for murder because it would have tainted the result.

310 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 3:50:03pm

re: #275 Gus

OK. Thanks. Any way to get solid ones with line weights?

You can replace this:

class="dashes"

with something like this:

class="dashes" style="border-top:2px solid darkgray;"

You can change the width of the border by changing ‘2px’ to whatever.

311 palomino  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 3:50:48pm

re: #294 Killgore Trout

From ABC….

Point is simple: if jury hears instructions, they can’t afterward un-hear them. Maybe it didn’t affect their decision making, but there’s certainly no way to know, given all the confusing things they hear from the attorneys, witnesses, the judge, etc.

312 Killgore Trout  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 3:53:45pm

re: #308 palomino

The article claims that SYG couldn’t have had anything to do with the verdict because Dunn was found guilty on three counts of attempted murder.

No, you’re misunderstanding the article.

If the jury believed Dunn thought Davis had a gun, they might be stuck on his count alone. Whereas they would have little trouble finding Dunn guilty of attempted murder for indiscriminately shooting at three people who didn’t have guns.

The article addresses that….


Yet that is no way unique to Florida or stand your ground laws. The most common example is when someone is confronted with what turns out to be a toy gun, he or she still has the right to use deadly force in any state if he or she “reasonably” believed the weapon was real, even if turns out there was no actual threat.

And, since SYG is simply a specific form of self-defense, it’s hard to cleanly separate the two as the author does.

It’s a little complicated and there’s some room for nuance. As the article states, there is plenty of room to be critical of the law but unfortunately many of the claims aren’t accurate.

313 urbanmeemaw  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 3:55:25pm

re: #196 Gus

Here’s a little more background on Peter Thiel:

alternet.org

314 Gus  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 3:55:49pm

re: #310 Charles Johnson

You can replace this:

class="dashes"

with something like this:

class="dashes" style="border-top:2px solid darkgray;"

You can change the width of the border by changing ‘2px’ to whatever.

Nice, thanks.

315 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 3:58:01pm

re: #311 palomino

Point is simple: if jury hears instructions, they can’t afterward un-hear them. Maybe it didn’t affect their decision making, but there’s certainly no way to know, given all the confusing things they hear from the attorneys, witnesses, the judge, etc.

Instructions most definitely influence a jury’s decision. They’re the framework, the filter through which the facts are sifted during deliberations. Killgore’s being an toolbag as usual. A jury that doesn’t get the SYG instruction would be left thinking that as long as the Castle Doctrine isn’t at play an obligation to safely retreat exists as long as a safe retreat is possible.

316 kirkspencer  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 3:58:02pm

re: #272 blueraven

Bullshit

Florida’s standard jury instruction 3.6(f) on self defense >makes the giving of this instruction mandatory:

>This is in the jury instructions for self defense

Actually, the applicable statute is 776.012, not 776.013:

776.012 Use of force in defense of person.—A person is justified in using force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other’s imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if:
(1) He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself
or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony; or
(2) Under those circumstances permitted pursuant to s. 776.013.

The argument was he thought he saw them bringing a shotgun or other long arm up and aiming it toward him.

317 Gus  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 3:58:13pm

re: #313 urbanmeemaw

Here’s a little more background on Peter Thiel:

alternet.org

Thanks. Wouldn’t you know it though. Ames is now writing for NSFW and… Paul Carr’s news site NSFW Corp joins with Silicon Valley-backed PandoDaily

Tech journalist and entrepreneur Paul Carr’s last venture was surprisingly old-school. NSFW Corp, a news site that billed itself as ‘the Economist written by the Daily Show’, put out a print magazine - and it even put up a paywall. Despite winning fans, it didn’t make money. Now Carr and co are off to join tech blog PandoDaily, a move likely to be met with applause and snickers in the incestuous world of tech hackery.

Carr, a former Guardian columnist, has made a reputation as one of the feistiest writers on the tech beat. His Twitter spats are legendary, as are his bust-ups with former employers including Arianna Huffington and AOL.

His colleagues at NSFW are equally punchy, and include Mark Ames, who edited the Moscow-based eXiles magazine, and is famous for combining practical jokes and stories of gory mob slayings, drugs and prostitution with serious, highly respected, political reporting…

318 austin_blue  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 3:59:09pm

re: #308 palomino

The article claims that SYG couldn’t have had anything to do with the verdict because Dunn was found guilty on three counts of attempted murder.

Not necessarily true. If the jury believed Dunn thought Davis had a gun, they might be stuck on his count alone. Whereas they would have little trouble finding Dunn guilty of attempted murder for indiscriminately shooting at three people who didn’t have guns.

And, since SYG is simply a specific form of self-defense, it’s hard to cleanly separate the two as the author does.

The problem with SYG is that it makes everyone with a gun a cop. All they have to say to a Grand Jury (GJ) is “I feared for my life.” This is why it is so difficult to get an indictment against a police officer from a GJ. How can you definitively determine that the statement is a lie?

Likewise, when a SYG statute is on the books, it puts the onus on a jury to make a determination of whether “I feared for my life” is factual, or not factual. Given that the victim is taking a dirt bath, how is that possible? You are demanding that they read the mind of the shooter.

I see infinite possibilities for the mafia hit man, the casual racist, and the committed White Supremacist to invoke his “fear” as justification for what would be, in a State without such blindingly stupid legislation, stone cold murder.

319 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 4:02:34pm

re: #316 kirkspencer

Actually, the applicable statute is 776.012, not 776.013:

The argument was he thought he saw them bringing a shotgun or other long arm up and aiming it toward him.

Of course this is the same guy who presented imitating Travis Bickle from Taxi Driver as a de-escalation technique.

320 palomino  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 4:02:51pm

re: #312 Killgore Trout

SYG laws broaden the possible use of self-defense either to mitigate or vitiate completely the criminal culpability of the defendant.

If a jury is confused about self-defense and SYG—and most people in FL probably are—they’re likely to misapply it. We have no idea if that’s what happened, contra the assertion by the article’s author that we know for sure SYG played no part. It shouldn’t have played a part, but the author’s certainty is absurd and baseless, as he has no more access to intimate details of the jury’s deliberation than the rest of us.

321 dog philosopher  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 4:03:24pm

what if i can’t stand your ground beef?

322 urbanmeemaw  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 4:04:13pm

re: #317 Gus

NSFW was awesome. Pando not so much. Also, Gus, are you aware of Thiele’s/Palintar’s link to PRISM? Which I think is kind of ironic. Or suspicious. Or both.

323 Gus  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 4:06:14pm

re: #322 urbanmeemaw

NSFW was awesome. Pando not so much. Also, Gus, are you aware of Thiele’s/Palintar’s link to PRISM? Which I think is kind of ironic. Or suspicious. Or both.

Nope. Through PayPal?

324 austin_blue  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 4:06:42pm

re: #321 dog philosopher

what if i can’t stand your ground beef?

you are dead to me…

325 Flounder  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 4:07:05pm

Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia struck down Chicago-style deep dish, ruling that the overflowing mess of sauce and cheese can’t be considered pizza.

326 klys  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 4:08:07pm

re: #325 Flounder

Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia struck down Chicago-style deep dish, ruling that the overflowing mess of sauce and cheese can’t be considered pizza.

Even a stopped clock is right twice a day…

327 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 4:08:32pm

re: #318 austin_blue

I see infinite possibilities for the mafia hit man, the casual racist, and the committed White Supremacist to invoke his “fear” as justification for what would be, in a State without such blindingly stupid legislation, stone cold murder.

The trick is to make sure you’re the only non-black eye witness to the actual shooting left alive.

328 Gus  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 4:10:36pm
329 danarchy  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 4:14:30pm

re: #293 Justanotherhuman

I think we’re really on the same page here. I see Dunn as the aggressor, though. An adult with a gun going down on a car full of kids who he knew, or should have known, weren’t old enough to be in possession of a weapon at any rate.

While I agree with you on most of your point, the fact that they are not old enough to legally have weapons does not mean they couldn’t have weapons. Just google teen gun violence.

330 austin_blue  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 4:16:48pm

re: #327 goddamnedfrank

The trick is to make sure you’re the only non-black eye witness to the actual shooting left alive.

Black, brown, poor, homeless: all second-class witnesses, eh?

Disturbing and disgusting on so many levels.

331 darthstar  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 4:17:11pm

332 Justanotherhuman  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 4:17:52pm

re: #329 danarchy

While I agree with you on most of your point, the fact that they are not old enough to legally have weapons does not mean they couldn’t have weapons. Just google teen gun violence.

That’s why I said, “legally”. Dunn was operating on the “thug” meme as a predetermined form of prejudice which he knew would add some weight to his “self-defense” in “fear” for his life. He’s not entirely stupid, but is entirely racist.

333 darthstar  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 4:18:01pm

334 darthstar  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 4:19:11pm

re: #331 darthstar

That should have been different. I save all pics as 1.png for uploading, but apparently I need to wait for my session to expire or I get the same pic even though my upload is different.

335 Gus  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 4:21:42pm
336 A Mom Anon  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 4:21:45pm

re: #329 danarchy

There are 4 teens, 16-19 yrs of age living next door to me that have guns of their own, given to them by their parents for Christmas. All legal. But it wouldn’t be that hard for them to either steal or buy one from someone around here. Lots of armed yahoos who think the pathetic laws that exist are too much. We have more guns than people in this country, a determined kid would have no trouble finding a gun. I doubt FL is much different than GA.

337 austin_blue  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 4:25:46pm

re: #329 danarchy

While I agree with you on most of your point, the fact that they are not old enough to legally have weapons does not mean they couldn’t have weapons. Just google teen gun violence.

But again, and again, and again:

Why initiate the confrontation? Top off your tank and go on your merry way. That man put in motion a series of events that resulted in the death of another human being by his own hand.

Bottom line: he killed a young man who didn’t deserve to die. If that had been four middle-class white kids in the car playing Abba at eleven, and he had been a black man who “feared for his life” and fired into the car because he “thought he saw a weapon”, does anyone here think he wouldn’t have been convicted of murder?

338 Lidane  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 4:28:18pm

re: #337 austin_blue

If that had been four middle-class white kids in the car playing Abba at eleven, and he had been a black man who “feared for his life” and fired into the car because he “thought he saw a weapon”, does anyone here think he wouldn’t have been convicted of murder?

Shit, he would’ve gotten the death penalty and a fast track to execution.

The fact remains that a white man unloaded his gun into a car full of unarmed black kids, killed one of them, and only got convicted of ATTEMPTED murder. That’s all sorts of fucked up, and laws like SYG make verdicts like this possible.

339 Justanotherhuman  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 4:29:42pm

re: #336 A Mom Anon

There are 4 teens, 16-19 yrs of age living next door to me that have guns of their own, given to them by their parents for Christmas. All legal. But it wouldn’t be that hard for them to either steal or buy one from someone around here. Lots of armed yahoos who think the pathetic laws that exist are too much. We have more guns than people in this country, a determined kid would have no trouble finding a gun. I doubt FL is much different than GA.

Adam Lanza’s mother gave him a check to buy a pistol for Christmas.

news.yahoo.com

“Nancy Lanza — who was killed by her 20-year-old son last December before he killed six women and 20 children at the Connecticut elementary school — told friends a month before the shooting that she was concerned about her son. He had not left the house for three months, and he communicated with her only via email, she said. She was not allowed to enter his room.

“But despite what seemed like mental health warning signs, the police found a check in the Lanza home for a CZ 83 pistol, which Nancy Lanza intended to give to her son over the holidays, according to a report released by a Connecticut state’s attorney. The check’s date section read “Christmas Day.”

“The mother wanted to buy the shooter a CZ 83 pistol for Christmas and had prepared a check for that purchase to give the shooter,” the report reads.”

I hope those kids are mentally stable.

340 Gus  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 4:33:28pm

I haz thin red lines now.

341 freetoken  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 4:33:46pm

Mimicry as a form of deception - an old evolutionary trick, even for those who deny evolution:

GOP campaign arm tweaks mock websites for Democratic candidates

The Republican campaign organization responsible for websites that appear, at first glance, to support Democratic candidates has backpedaled a bit, altering the way they seek donations.

[…]

342 Killgore Trout  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 4:34:59pm

re: #320 palomino

SYG laws broaden the possible use of self-defense either to mitigate or vitiate completely the criminal culpability of the defendant.

If a jury is confused about self-defense and SYG—and most people in FL probably are—they’re likely to misapply it. We have no idea if that’s what happened, contra the assertion by the article’s author that we know for sure SYG played no part. It shouldn’t have played a part, but the author’s certainty is absurd and baseless, as he has no more access to intimate details of the jury’s deliberation than the rest of us.

It is possible that the public may misinterpret SYG laws and that’s a problem. It’s also a problem if critics also misinterpret the law. There is plenty of room for criticism and discussion. Basing the discussion on factual information would be helpful.

343 Lidane  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 4:36:11pm
344 Eventual Carrion  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 4:38:19pm

re: #321 dog philosopher

what if i can’t stand your ground beef?

Tuna helper for you then.

345 darthstar  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 4:38:42pm

re: #343 Lidane

[Embedded content]

That’s so cute. Good luck with that Hoosiers.

346 Gus  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 4:39:04pm

Also works with HTML colors.

Doesn’t work in comments. Still can get a dashed line though.

347 freetoken  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 4:41:30pm

What’s so stupid about this:

Long Island radio hosts suspended over fake story about homophobic mother

…. is that most of talk radio is “made up” to “spur” a discussion on topics.

The entire industry is built on bullshit. Why start now trying to factual?

348 Justanotherhuman  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 4:42:22pm

re: #342 Killgore Trout

It is possible that the public may misinterpret SYG laws and that’s a problem. It’s also a problem if critics also misinterpret the law. There is plenty of room for criticism and discussion. Basing the discussion on factual information would be helpful.

I don’t have much problem with defending yourself in your home, or if you are physically attacked on the street (and most of the time, those attacks are pretty unexpected, unlike hearing someone trying to enter your home).

However, the SYG law is being used to excuse unfounded fear and feelings of threat where none exist, and also gives those like Dunn, more than ready with their finger on the trigger, a legal right to shoot, for whatever reason they please, without consequences.

I don’t doubt, also, although the question may never have been asked, that Dunn and his companion had already been drinking (the stop was for wine, not gas). Therefore, it was in his interest to leave immediately, without waiting for the cops, and go about his business without regret for what he’d done. He showed his sociopathy when he claims he saw a “shotgun” and yet did not reveal that “fear” to his companion either at the moment she came back to the car or the rest of the night or next day, as she testified on the stand.

349 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 4:43:17pm

John Cole, being an asshole again.

Right, this is the only site on the web that has popups.

350 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 4:45:28pm
351 Decatur Deb  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 4:46:57pm

Freeper patriotism comes to the fore:

To: grumpa

With the socialist, Obama-voting blue states diving into the cultural sewer of fag-marriage and dope, I’ve become 100% fine with the proposition of secession. And that’s no understatement.

Those states can go burn in hell. I’d never lift a finger to support or defend them even if attacked by outside forces.

12 posted on Mon 17 Feb 2014 05:52:21 PM CST by greene66


No criticism or even notice of this comment from freepers on the ‘secession’ thread.

352 Gus  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 4:47:11pm

re: #349 Charles Johnson

John Cole, being an asshole again.

[Embedded content]

Right, this is the only site on the web that has popups.

353 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 4:47:45pm
354 HappyWarrior  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 4:48:37pm

re: #351 Decatur Deb

Freeper patriotism comes to the fore:

To: grumpa

With the socialist, Obama-voting blue states diving into the cultural sewer of fag-marriage and dope, I’ve become 100% fine with the proposition of secession. And that’s no understatement.

Those states can go burn in hell. I’d never lift a finger to support or defend them even if attacked by outside forces.

12 posted on Mon 17 Feb 2014 05:52:21 PM CST by greene66

No criticism or even notice of this comment from freepers on the ‘secession’ thread.

We love you too grumpa.

355 Justanotherhuman  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 4:49:19pm

re: #353 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

I’m sure the popups are all Cole goes to Porn Hub for anyway. He’s probably too cheap to buy anything.

356 Pie-onist Overlord  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 4:52:14pm

re: #355 Justanotherhuman

I’m sure the popups are all Cole goes to Porn Hub for anyway. He’s probably too cheap to buy anything.

He’s trying to figure out the One Weird Trick.

357 Gus  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 4:52:21pm

re: #353 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

What the hell is his problem?

358 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 4:54:34pm

re: #357 Gus

Seems like he’s trying to emulate his idol Glenn Greenwald by being a monumental asshole.

359 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 5:03:27pm
360 Killgore Trout  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 5:06:33pm

Russia makes another down payment in its purchase of Ukraine
Ukraine crisis: Russia to release new $2bn tranche

361 Pie-onist Overlord  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 5:08:37pm
362 Gus  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 5:09:33pm

re: #353 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Unlike Newsmax headlines!

363 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 5:10:41pm

re: #362 Gus

Unlike Newsmax headlines!

[Embedded image]

Good grief. He’s publishing ads from the farthest of the far right, but he bashes me for popups.

I’ve been contacted by Newsmax for those ads too, but I won’t run them here.

364 NJDhockeyfan  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 5:10:59pm
365 Political Atheist  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 5:14:10pm

re: #320 palomino

SYG laws broaden the possible use of self-defense either to mitigate or vitiate completely the criminal culpability of the defendant.

If a jury is confused about self-defense and SYG—and most people in FL probably are—they’re likely to misapply it. We have no idea if that’s what happened, contra the assertion by the article’s author that we know for sure SYG played no part. It shouldn’t have played a part, but the author’s certainty is absurd and baseless, as he has no more access to intimate details of the jury’s deliberation than the rest of us.

Jurors get very specific instructions and opportunities to send questions out to the judge. That should serve to minimize any confusion. SYG keeps getting brought up by it’s critics before and or instead of actual defense attorneys. This guy got is getting decades in prison, at his age a likely life sentence. Obviously SYG was no help to him in this case. I don’t like SYG, but the critics need to chill just a little. Stick to where it actually matters for instance. Plenty of those cases.

366 dog philosopher  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 5:15:46pm

re: #364 NJDhockeyfan

Pentecostal snake handler who died of a snakebite

um well from the pentecostal point of view i think it means that he warn’t a real preacher inspired by the holly sprite

367 Lidane  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 5:18:58pm

re: #355 Justanotherhuman

I’m sure the popups are all Cole goes to Porn Hub for anyway. He’s probably too cheap to buy anything.

People pay for content at PornHub?

///////

368 Varek Raith  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 5:19:39pm

re: #367 Lidane

People pay for content at PornHub?

///////

Wait.
People ‘buy’ pr0n???

369 dog philosopher  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 5:21:16pm

Despite his father’s death, Cody Coots said he doesn’t believe snake handling is dangerous. “It’s the word of God,” he said. “We’ve always said it’s a good way to live by and a good way to die by.”

the word of god…

370 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 5:21:39pm
371 bratwurst  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 5:21:42pm

Check out Paul Krugman’s blistering takedown of the Comcast/Time Warner Cable merger in yesterday’s New York Times.

And if you are even slightly concerned about this, PLEASE consider taking the survey linked in Senator Franken’s tweet below and let him and others know there has to be a limit to “media consolidation” (aka monopolistic behavior):

372 Dr. Matt  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 5:22:27pm

Huge Asteroid to Fly Safely by Earth Monday: Watch It Live

An asteroid the size of three football fields is set to make a close brush of Earth on Monday (Feb. 17), and you can watch the flyby in a live webcast.

Near-Earth asteroid 2000 EM26 poses no threat of actually hitting the planet, but the online Slooh Space Camera will track the asteroid as it passes by Earth on Monday. The live Slooh webcast will start at 9 p.m. ET (0200 Feb. 18 GMT), and you can also watch the webcast directly through the Slooh website. (You can participate in the broadcast by using the hashtag #asteroid to ask questions during the 2000 EM26 show.)

nbcnews.com

373 Decatur Deb  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 5:28:53pm

Let’s see how this one plays out in court.

Adrian Broadway, Teen, Allegedly Gunned Down By Willie Noble Over Egging Prank

huffingtonpost.com

374 Eclectic Cyborg  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 5:32:13pm
375 GeneJockey  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 5:32:36pm

I haven’t been paying attention, but I must confess some surprise that Cole went all Dudebro. He seemed more sensible. Then again, there seems a paucity of rational discussion on this. It’s become all about choosing sides.

376 Lidane  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 5:35:42pm
377 Varek Raith  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 5:35:48pm

re: #365 Political Atheist

Jurors get very specific instructions and opportunities to send questions out to the judge. That should serve to minimize any confusion. SYG keeps getting brought up by it’s critics before and or instead of actual defense attorneys. This guy got is getting decades in prison, at his age a likely life sentence. Obviously SYG was no help to him in this case. I don’t like SYG, but the critics need to chill just a little. Stick to where it actually matters for instance. Plenty of those cases.

Fact still remains he will get no time for actually killing someone.

378 Varek Raith  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 5:37:17pm

So screw SYG laws.

379 Political Atheist  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 5:38:05pm

re: #377 Varek Raith

That’s on the prosecutor. Not SYG. How does one prove premeditation beyond a reasonable doubt in a sudden incident?

380 Political Atheist  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 5:38:39pm

re: #378 Varek Raith

So screw SYG laws.

Agreed but this case ain’t the hook to hang that on.

381 Varek Raith  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 5:40:41pm

re: #379 Political Atheist

That’s on the prosecutor. Not SYG. How does one prove premeditation beyond a reasonable doubt in a sudden incident?

Jurors were also allowed to consider the lesser included charges Second Degree Murder and Manslaughter by Act, but the 12 person jury could not reach a unanimous verdict on any of those options.

382 Lidane  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 5:41:21pm

re: #365 Political Atheist

I don’t like SYG, but the critics need to chill just a little. Stick to where it actually matters for instance. Plenty of those cases.

SYG is an abomination that needs to be repealed, or we need to admit that it’s a shitty law that amounts to a license for white people to kill minorities with impunity. Dunn is going to jail for ATTEMPTED murder despite the fact he walked over and unloaded his gun into a car full of unarmed kids and one of them is dead.

I get the idea behind defending yourself/your home/your family if you’re in immediate danger, but this is bullshit. Enough is enough.

383 Varek Raith  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 5:41:29pm

Clearly the jury thought he didn’t murder the kid.

384 GeneJockey  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 5:41:35pm

I do suspect that the existence of SYG laws emboldens the terroristangry, fearful, armed people to do shit like this, though to be honest I have paid little attention to this case because the whole thing depressed me too much.

385 Political Atheist  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 5:41:53pm

re: #381 Varek Raith

Did not know that about the 2nd degree. Not sure what that language is, and it was just one juror. Which will get retried right? This is just “so far” not exoneration of murder. I think it will stick, yet not make him serve one extra minute. He will die in prison.

386 Varek Raith  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 5:42:16pm

re: #385 Political Atheist

Which will get retried right? This is just “so far” not exoneration of murder.

You miss the point.

387 GeneJockey  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 5:42:47pm

re: #383 Varek Raith

Clearly the jury though he didn’t murder the kid.

IIRC, the jury was deadlocked. They didn’t vote to acquit. “The Jury” didn’t clearly think anything.

388 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 5:42:54pm

re: #368 Varek Raith

Wait.
People ‘buy’ pr0n???

You mean there’s pron on the Internet?

389 Varek Raith  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 5:43:17pm

The point is obvious.
The jury didn’t think he murdered the kid.
Why?
SYG. He ‘feared’ for his life.

390 HappyWarrior  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 5:44:00pm

re: #388 Charles Johnson

You mean there’s pron on the Internet?

The internet? I thought the internet was for nerds! Giggity!

391 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 5:44:17pm
392 GeneJockey  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 5:44:19pm

re: #388 Charles Johnson

You mean there’s pron on the Internet?

There is? How do you find it?
//////////////////////////////// x 10^23

393 Varek Raith  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 5:44:28pm

re: #387 GeneJockey

IIRC, the jury was deadlocked. They didn’t vote to acquit. “The Jury” didn’t clearly think anything.

They deadlocked on 1st. I understand that one.
But to deadlock on the other two lesser murder charges?
Pattern.

394 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 5:45:53pm
395 Varek Raith  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 5:45:53pm

re: #388 Charles Johnson

You mean there’s pron on the Internet?

It’s what it was invented for, right????

396 Varek Raith  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 5:46:32pm

re: #392 GeneJockey

There is? How do you find it?
//////////////////////////////// x 10^23

Any innocuous google search will eventually turn up porn.
I think it’s a law.

397 HappyWarrior  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 5:46:52pm

re: #393 Varek Raith

They deadlocked on 1st. I understand that one.
But to deadlock on the other two lesser murder charges?
Pattern.

Yeah one thing to deadlock on 1st degree which I think was a prosecutrial blunder going after Dunn on that since that’s much harder to prove but 2nd degree and you still couldn’t get a conviction? Mindboggling. There’s something deeply wrong with that law and i think you have to bring race into it when you see black people who have been sentenced to prison time in far more threatening cases then Dunn or Zimmerman faced.

398 b.d.  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 5:47:04pm

Cole is a giant douchebag, his site is on the good side as long as he isn’t posting on it.

Strange to see Cole at bashing people other than his own Balloon Juice posters for a change though.

399 Lidane  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 5:47:14pm

re: #389 Varek Raith

The point is obvious.
The jury didn’t think he murdered the kid.
Why?
SYG. He ‘feared’ for his life.

EXACTLY.

Car full of unarmed black kids = deadly threat, so he didn’t murder anyone despite the fact that he practically emptied his gun and killed one of them. Why? Because he was a white guy with a gun who didn’t like loud rap music.

He was so afraid for his life that he walked the dog and ordered a pizza after shooting up a car full of kids. WTF.

400 Skip Intro  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 5:47:19pm

re: #377 Varek Raith

Fact still remains he will get no time for actually killing someone.

No, it appears the only crime was causing the value of the car he shot to depreciate.

401 HappyWarrior  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 5:47:57pm

re: #394 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Yeah no duh. Just because I don’t like GG or ES doesn’t mean the government gets a get off free card in the court of opinion.

402 HappyWarrior  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 5:49:15pm

re: #399 Lidane

EXACTLY.

Car full of unarmed black kids = deadly threat, so he didn’t murder anyone despite the fact that he practically emptied his gun and killed one of them. Why? Because he was a white guy with a gun who didn’t like loud rap music.

He was so afraid for his life that he walked the dog and ordered a pizza after shooting up a car full of kids. WTF.

or didn’t even mention that he thought the kids had a shotgun until the whole murder charge came up. I’ll say it here. Dunn is a cowardly fuck who shot a kid with a gun because he lives in a world where you solve disputes with a gun rather than acting like a rational human being.

403 Decatur Deb  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 5:49:20pm

re: #387 GeneJockey

IIRC, the jury was deadlocked. They didn’t vote to acquit. “The Jury” didn’t clearly think anything.

Unless I’ve missed a development, there is likely to be another trial, with another luck-of-the-draw jury. Angst might be premature.

404 Ojoe  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 5:49:31pm

OT: This deserves a thread of its own !

deathandtaxesmag.com

405 danarchy  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 5:49:44pm

re: #389 Varek Raith

The point is obvious.
The jury didn’t think he murdered the kid.
Why?
SYG. He ‘feared’ for his life.

We have no idea what the Jury thought. Unless and until I hear an interview with a juror I’m not going to make any assumptions. Maybe some jurors wanted murder one and others wanted manslaughter. While I think it is unlikely that would cause a deadlock, I think it is equally unlikely that someone who voted guilty for three counts of attempted murder would want to acquit on the actual murder.

Since the case may be retried I doubt we’ll be able to hear from these jurors for a while though.

406 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 5:50:12pm
407 b.d.  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 5:50:41pm

re: #375 GeneJockey

I haven’t been paying attention, but I must confess some surprise that Cole went all Dudebro. He seemed more sensible. Then again, there seems a paucity of rational discussion on this. It’s become all about choosing sides.

Cole has been over compensating for quite a while now.

408 Varek Raith  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 5:51:07pm
409 Ojoe  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 5:51:33pm

And a frosty tower camLink

410 GeneJockey  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 5:51:40pm

re: #393 Varek Raith

They deadlocked on 1st. I understand that one.
But to deadlock on the other two lesser murder charges?
Pattern.

I’m trying to make sense of how you could convict on what, 4 counts of ATTEMPTED murder, but not on the one that was successful.

411 Lidane  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 5:51:50pm

Something to make the bigots go all ‘splodey:


A bunch of Mexican-American girls on the border dressing up as Martha Washington for their debutante ball? Where’s the fainting couch?

////

Actually, this isn’t new. Some of my cousins have been in it or been escorts for girls they knew. It’s really neat.

412 klys  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 5:52:44pm

I think part of the frustration fueling all of this about the SYG law is the applications that we’ve seen so far.

Black woman firing a warning shot at someone who has abused her in the past, in her own home: SYG is somehow not applicable. Maybe her mistake was not aiming at him?

White guy in a car who thought the black kids in the car over had their music turned up too loud and so fired 10 times on a carload of unarmed kids: self-defense intertwined with the concept of SYG. And he isn’t convicted of the actual murder in the first trial, just the attempted murders. The takeaway again: have better aim.

There’s a lot of aspects to this that make it a difficult discussion, not the least of which is the racial disparity observed in the application of and willingness to entertain self-defense as a reason to let gun violence pass. But we have now twice seen situations where a white man has played a pivotal role in creating the conflict that allowed him to claim “self-defense” in situations outside of the home and the end result thus far has been very little in the way of legal consequences for the murder itself.

I agree with whoever said that you should forfeit the right to claim self-defense outside the home if you don’t at least call for help, even if it is afterwards. If you’re that terrified, get to a safe place and then call. But call. Pretending nothing happened does not speak to self-defense.

413 Decatur Deb  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 5:53:12pm

re: #404 Ojoe

OT: This deserves a thread of its own !

deathandtaxesmag.com

Very cool. The choral elaboration is suitably medieval.

414 HappyWarrior  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 5:53:42pm

re: #412 klys

I think part of the frustration fueling all of this about the SYG law is the applications that we’ve seen so far.

Black woman firing a warning shot at someone who has abused her in the past, in her own home: SYG is somehow not applicable. Maybe her mistake was not aiming at him?

White guy in a car who thought the black kids in the car over had their music turned up too loud and so fired 10 times on a carload of unarmed kids: self-defense intertwined with the concept of SYG. And he isn’t convicted of the actual murder in the first trial, just the attempted murders. The takeaway again: have better aim.

There’s a lot of aspects to this that make it a difficult discussion, not the least of which is the racial disparity observed in the application of and willingness to entertain self-defense as a reason to let gun violence pass. But we have now twice seen situations where a white man has played a pivotal role in creating the conflict that allowed him to claim “self-defense” in situations outside of the home and the end result thus far has been very little in the way of legal consequences for the murder itself.

I agree with whoever said that you should forfeit the right to claim self-defense outside the home if you don’t at least call for help, even if it is afterwards. If you’re that terrified, get to a safe place and then call. But call. Pretending nothing happened does not speak to self-defense.

Wonderfully said better than I could. Thanks.

415 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 5:53:43pm
416 Backwoods_Sleuth  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 5:54:16pm
417 Varek Raith  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 5:54:50pm

re: #416 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

ohai.

418 Kid A  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 5:55:46pm

Modern evolved human on the left, Teabagger on the right.

419 Decatur Deb  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 5:55:52pm

Asteroid video, called out above, in 5 min.

420 HappyWarrior  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 5:55:59pm

re: #416 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

It’s not easy being someone’s greens.

421 Varek Raith  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 5:56:21pm

live.slooh.com

Live asteroid fly-by.

422 Gus  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 5:57:16pm


Nutcase.

423 klys  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 5:57:26pm

I have steak strips marinating for an attempt at vaguely fajita-ish tacos.

There are street taco sized tortillas in the fridge, I have an avocado to mix with sour cream and lime juice for some crema, and hopefully the husband will get the shredded cabbage I forgot.

This is why grocery lists are useful.

424 gwangung  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 5:57:45pm

re: #282 Killgore Trout

This is better as re: #405 danarchy

We have no idea what the Jury thought. Unless and until I hear an interview with a juror I’m not going to make any assumptions. Maybe some jurors wanted murder one and others wanted manslaughter. While I think it is unlikely that would cause a deadlock, I think it is equally unlikely that someone who voted guilty for three counts of attempted murder would want to acquit on the actual murder.

Since the case may be retried I doubt we’ll be able to hear from these jurors for a while though.

Maybe. But I’ve served on a jury that included 1st and second degrees of a crime. And it was easy enough for us to agree on the second degree while we deadlocked on the first degree. Based on my experience there was at least one juror that bought that there could have been a shotgun and thought there was a reasonable doubt.

425 b.d.  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 5:58:22pm

re: #416 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

Cracker Jack put stuff in their food and got famous for it! think of that as the healthy alternative.

426 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 5:58:57pm
427 GeneJockey  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 5:59:37pm

re: #412 klys

I think part of the frustration fueling all of this about the SYG law is the applications that we’ve seen so far.

Black woman firing a warning shot at someone who has abused her in the past, in her own home: SYG is somehow not applicable. Maybe her mistake was not aiming at him?

White guy in a car who thought the black kids in the car over had their music turned up too loud and so fired 10 times on a carload of unarmed kids: self-defense intertwined with the concept of SYG. And he isn’t convicted of the actual murder in the first trial, just the attempted murders. The takeaway again: have better aim.

There’s a lot of aspects to this that make it a difficult discussion, not the least of which is the racial disparity observed in the application of and willingness to entertain self-defense as a reason to let gun violence pass. But we have now twice seen situations where a white man has played a pivotal role in creating the conflict that allowed him to claim “self-defense” in situations outside of the home and the end result thus far has been very little in the way of legal consequences for the murder itself.

I agree with whoever said that you should forfeit the right to claim self-defense outside the home if you don’t at least call for help, even if it is afterwards. If you’re that terrified, get to a safe place and then call. But call. Pretending nothing happened does not speak to self-defense.

I’d say that the SYG laws are working as intended, though this is a profoundly cynical thought.

428 klys  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 6:00:40pm

re: #427 GeneJockey

I’d say that the SYG laws are working as intended, though this is a profoundly cynical thought.

I am trying hard not to be that cynical, but I admit some days the world makes it very easy.

429 Kragar  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 6:01:12pm
430 klys  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 6:02:07pm

re: #429 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Greenwald wouldn’t be caught dead committing an act of journalism - there’s very little money in real journalism.

431 Pie-onist Overlord  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 6:03:30pm

MountVernon.org is “liberal bullshit” who knew?

432 GeneJockey  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 6:04:19pm

re: #428 klys

I am trying hard not to be that cynical, but I admit some days the world makes it very easy.

I’d observe that cynicism often makes a useful working hypothesis, especially when it comes to things like SYG where 1) it’s predicated on a huge upswing in crime in a country that’s seen the opposite, 2) the bad shit that’s happened because of it was obvious before it passed.

433 Backwoods_Sleuth  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 6:04:35pm

re: #431 Pie-onist Overlord

MountVernon.org is “liberal bullshit” who knew?

[Embedded content]

It has “facts”…that’s the telltale sign…

434 HappyWarrior  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 6:05:28pm

re: #431 Pie-onist Overlord

MountVernon.org is “liberal bullshit” who knew?

[Embedded content]

Ha you struck a nerve. Anything that doesn’t portray the founders as being the ideological ancestors of the wingnuts is “liberal bullshti.”

435 Gus  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 6:05:48pm

re: #431 Pie-onist Overlord

MountVernon.org is “liberal bullshit” who knew?

[Embedded content]

DAMN LIBRUL HIPPIES!

436 Bubblehead II  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 6:07:51pm

Evening Lizards.

Just in case you missed it, we as a planet are avoiding the proverbial bullet (again).

Asteroid 3 football fields long to fly by Earth tonight; watch live!

437 HappyWarrior  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 6:08:35pm

Reminds me of seeing quotes at Monticello that totally contradict what David Barton and Glenn Beck say about Jefferson. Yeah pardon me but I’ll trust the people who have spent their lives researching tehse guys rather than some wingnut with an agenda. MV is a wonderful place by the way should you ever visit. Ditto Monticello.

438 GeneJockey  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 6:09:25pm

re: #434 HappyWarrior

Ha you struck a nerve. Anything that doesn’t portray the founders as being the ideological ancestors of the wingnuts is “liberal bullshti.”

Yeah. Try pointing out that the Founders were rich white male landowners who established a country that favored rich white male landowners, but that it could be tweaked to work for everyone else, too.

Then duck.

439 GeneJockey  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 6:10:15pm

re: #436 Bubblehead II

Evening Lizards.

Just in case you missed it, we as a planet are avoiding the proverbial bullet (again).

Asteroid 3 football fields long to fly by Earth tonight; watch live!

Fly-by, feh. Asteroid HITTING Earth, now there’s some good TV!
////

440 HappyWarrior  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 6:10:58pm

re: #438 GeneJockey

Yeah. Try pointing out that the Founders were rich white male landowners who established a country that favored rich white male landowners, but that it could be tweaked to work for everyone else, too.

Then duck.

Or better yet that they they didn’t all think the same. My one pet peeve is when peopel talk about the Founders all being in unison on the issues. I mean there was a reason why despite Washington’s hopes that we saw the emergence of political parties.

441 Pie-onist Overlord  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 6:11:23pm

HOW DARE YOU INTERRUPT MY FANTASY GUN NUT WASHINGTON WITH YOUR LIBRUL ACTUAL HISTORICAL WASHINGTON!!!11!!!!!

442 HappyWarrior  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 6:12:28pm

re: #441 Pie-onist Overlord

HOW DARE YOU INTERRUPT MY FANTASY GUN NUT WASHINGTON WITH YOUR LIBRUL ACTUAL HISTORICAL WASHINGTON!!!11!!!!!

Washington would have posted scantily images of women with guns. Fact.// And anyone who thinks otherwise wants Sharia.

443 chadu  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 6:13:21pm

re: #351 Decatur Deb

Freeper patriotism comes to the fore:

To: grumpa

With the socialist, Obama-voting blue states diving into the cultural sewer of fag-marriage and dope, I’ve become 100% fine with the proposition of secession. And that’s no understatement.

Those states can go burn in hell. I’d never lift a finger to support or defend them even if attacked by outside forces.

12 posted on Mon 17 Feb 2014 05:52:21 PM CST by greene66

No criticism or even notice of this comment from freepers on the ‘secession’ thread.

He sounds nice…

444 HappyWarrior  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 6:14:29pm

re: #443 chadu

He sounds nice…

Real hit at parties. Just don’t tell him about the nice gay guy who made pot brownies for the occasion.

445 GeneJockey  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 6:14:39pm

re: #440 HappyWarrior

Or better yet that they they didn’t all think the same. My one pet peeve is when peopel talk about the Founders all being in unison on the issues. I mean there was a reason why despite Washington’s hopes that we saw the emergence of political parties.

Or point out that some of their favorites thought owning people and stealing their labor was just hunky-dory, and that at least one of them fathered at least one child on a woman he owned.

Not only do they need to see the Founders as being ‘just like them’ in political beliefs, the Founders also have to be free of any flaws. Similarly, they castigate Obama for pointing out that the Constitution was deeply flawed - fer chrissake, slavery was Constitutional!

446 dog philosopher  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 6:15:02pm

re: #423 klys

I have steak strips marinating for an attempt at vaguely fajita-ish tacos.

There are street taco sized tortillas in the fridge, I have an avocado to mix with sour cream and lime juice for some crema, and hopefully the husband will get the shredded cabbage I forgot.

This is why grocery lists are useful.

text it!

447 dog philosopher  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 6:15:58pm

re: #445 GeneJockey

Or point out that some of their favorites thought owning people and stealing their labor was just hunky-dory, and that at least one of them fathered at least one child on a woman he owned.

Not only do they need to see the Founders as being ‘just like them’ in political beliefs, the Founders also have to be free of any flaws. Similarly, they castigate Obama for pointing out that the Constitution was deeply flawed - fer chrissake, slavery was Constitutional!

i have a direct line to the flounders’ original intent

their position is to lie flat

448 klys  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 6:15:59pm

re: #446 dog philosopher

text it!

He’s got an IM.

Texting would require him to remember that he has and use his cell phone.

449 b.d.  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 6:16:52pm

Well. Oiled. Machine.

450 Kragar  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 6:18:13pm

Actually had it brought up to me today:

Gun nutter: “You can’t debate about what the Founding Fathers put in the Constitution!”

Me: “So you think black people are only 3/5 of a person and slavery should be legal?”

Gun nutter: “Wha-?

451 GeneJockey  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 6:18:16pm

re: #448 klys

He’s got an IM.

Texting would require him to remember that he has and use his cell phone.

Many of my voicemails to my wife start with “What good is a cell phone if you don’t answer it?” She has a tendency to set the thing to vibrate then put it in her purse, where my calls merely make her loose change hum.

452 klys  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 6:19:39pm

re: #451 GeneJockey

Many of my voicemails to my wife start with “What good is a cell phone if you don’t answer it?” She has a tendency to set the thing to vibrate then put it in her purse, where my calls merely make her loose change hum.

I’m not necessarily *fantastic* about remembering mine but he takes it to an art form.

453 HappyWarrior  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 6:19:51pm

re: #450 Kragar

Actually had it brought up to me today:

Gun nutter: “You can’t debate about what the Founding Fathers put in the Constitution!”

Me: “So you think black people are only 3/5 of a person and slavery should be legal?”

Gun nutter: “Wha-?

I bet you most of them don’t know that the Bill of Rights was something added later or that their ideological ancestors didn’t even want a Constitution in the first place. They were content with the Articles of Confederation.

454 HappyWarrior  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 6:20:51pm

re: #445 GeneJockey

Or point out that some of their favorites thought owning people and stealing their labor was just hunky-dory, and that at least one of them fathered at least one child on a woman he owned.

Not only do they need to see the Founders as being ‘just like them’ in political beliefs, the Founders also have to be free of any flaws. Similarly, they castigate Obama for pointing out that the Constitution was deeply flawed - fer chrissake, slavery was Constitutional!

Right, they see the Constitution as a document beyond criticism. It’s a great founding document. Perhaps as fine as you find but it has flaws but you know what? That’s okay, that’s why we can amend it and the founders understood that.

455 GeneJockey  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 6:21:16pm

re: #453 HappyWarrior

I bet you most of them don’t know that the Bill of Rights was something added later or that their ideological ancestors didn’t even want a Constitution in the first place. They were content with the Articles of Confederation.

I have seen the sentiment expressed that the Constitution is too much and we should return to the Articles of Confederation - because those worked so well.

456 chadu  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 6:21:58pm

re: #455 GeneJockey

I have seen the sentiment expressed that the Constitution is too much and we should return to the Articles of Confederation - because those worked so well.

History: how does it work?

457 klys  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 6:22:13pm

Per person, the asteroid livestream is roughly 40kb/s.

/geek factoid for the day

458 HappyWarrior  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 6:22:20pm

re: #455 GeneJockey

I have seen the sentiment expressed that the Constitution is too much and we should return to the Articles of Confederation - because those worked so well.

At least that’s honest I guess. Fringey shit I grant you but honest.

459 goddamnedfrank  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 6:24:03pm

re: #361 Pie-onist Overlord

[Embedded content]

Well, it’s true to a point. I know of no pictures that depict Obama shoving a soldier’s face into his armpit.

460 Kragar  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 6:25:25pm

I also learned that any attempt to get people to actually register and record what guns they own is just as good as banning weapons, and that the reason to own a gun is to fight tyranny, so you can hold out against the Federal government long enough for another nation’s military to come in and rescue you.

“So your plan is to hide out in the mountains until the Russians or Chinese decide to invade and save you from the US military?

“That isn’t the point!”

“WOLVERINES!”

“Its to fight tyranny.”

“AVENGE ME SON!”

“I so hate you.”

461 Feline Fearless Leader  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 6:43:11pm

re: #417 Varek Raith

ohai.

Iz in yur salad - etin the bugz.

462 TedStriker  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 7:03:30pm

re: #369 dog philosopher

Despite his father’s death, Cody Coots said he doesn’t believe snake handling is dangerous. “It’s the word of God,” he said. “We’ve always said it’s a good way to live by and a good way to die by.”

the word of god…

“It’s God’s will!”

463 wheat-dogghazi  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 7:53:10pm

re: #261 Justanotherhuman

OK, I admit I’m an art philistine.

I don’t condone what this asshole did, but at the same time, I have to say that I don’t get these “pots” at all. Did these vases, purported to be 7,000 yrs old, actually look like this when found? Or did Weiwei himself destroy their archeological value by painting them?

Local Artist Destroys $1 Million Ai Weiwei Vase At Museum “In Protest”

miami.cbslocal.com

In 2010 Ai had an exhibit called “Dropping the Urn,” in which he took Neolithic vases and decorated them with industrial paint. Some he adorned with modern logos, like Coke. Others he ground up into dust, or dropped to shatter them. I presume the vases are so common that there is no archaeological value lost. I’m sure he had some motivation for choosing 5,000-year-old urns as a medium, to contrast ancient times with modern times. I dunno myself.

Ai is a thorn in the side of China’s government. He’s famous at home and abroad, and not shy about criticizing the Party openly. The last I heard, he is prevented from traveling outside the country, even to Hong Kong or Macau. The police monitor his home, his phone and computer communications, and one of his workshop-galleries in Shanghai was summarily bulldozed on some trumped up tax violation.

As for the urn-dropper in Miami, he seems like a local sorehead who’s pissed the museum exhibits foreign artwork and not local artwork.

464 wheat-dogghazi  Mon, Feb 17, 2014 8:04:22pm

re: #276 dog philosopher

Dept. of Historiae Ex Culo

“The aim of liberalism’s founding writers and thinkers — such as Herbert Croly, Randolph Bourne, H.G. Wells, Sinclair Lewis and H.L. Mencken — was to create an American aristocracy of sorts, to provide the same sense of hierarchy and ­order long associated with European statism,” he writes.

The author, Michael Goodwin, could be a stand-in for Mr Bean. Just sayin’.
Image: 156x195-michael-goodwin.jpg

This is about the book Goodwin is reviewing. Siegel is criticizing modern liberals for abandoning the populist roots of American liberalism.

manhattan-institute.org

465 urbanmeemaw  Tue, Feb 18, 2014 1:30:25am

re: #323 Gus

Sorry for late response. Through Palintar.

466 lawhawk  Tue, Feb 18, 2014 4:55:55am

re: #388 Charles Johnson

You mean there’s pron on the Internet?

The Internet’s for porn!

Youtube Video


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