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Alabama’s McClurkin, “Gohmert in a dress,” pushing even more ultra-radical bills

You now have to put up with the mental image of Louie Gohmert in a dress. You’re welcome.
Wingnuts • Views: 13,843
Rep. Mary Sue McClurkin

So a few days ago I posted a page about how Alabama is attempting to force “Christian” prayer in all Public schools.

Specifically, this revolved around Rep. Mary Sue McClurkin, R-Indian Springs, who blatantly ignored a 2-3 loss in a voice vote for something she (and her imaginary friend) wanted - enforced cult indoctrination in Alabama public schools.

Well, that turns out to be the tip of the iceburg.

She, of course, is an Anti-Choice Forced Birther.

She has, presumably using the same “voice voting with gawd” style unethical (and illegal) techniques as she abused above for the cult indoctrination bill she is trying to push through, pushed four anti-women bills through committee:

  • A Ban on abortions after 6 weeks (earliest in the country, this would effectively outlaw abortion)
  • A 48 hour waiting period on Abortion
  • An effective prohibition on underage abortion
  • Enforced emotional torture / blackmailing of women by requiring doctors to inform them that fetuses with fatal abnormalities can be admitted into special hospice centers.

Now, all these are pretty standard cult-written anti-women attempts at religious control, we’ve seen them in plenty of other states (although the “yeah, your kid will be born without a brain but we have a hospice center you can put it in until it eventually dies” thing is particularly horrific and new to me), but McClurkin, the “voice votes with gawd” lady, her reasonings are… scary. Even for an anti-women cultist:

1. She not only admits her bills are an attempt to Illegally ban abortion in her state, her argument is that sex us only for heterosexual procreation and sluts that have sex should expect to be a glorified brood mare.

2. She made headlines last year when she claimed that “When a physician removes a child from a woman, that is the largest organ in a body. That’s a big thing. That’s a big surgery. You don’t have any other organs in your body that are bigger than that.” It’s classic cognitive dissonance leaking out (or just bullshit for bullshit’s sake) — because after all, forced-birthers usually claim that fertilized eggs are people.

3. She is, of course, connected directly with ALEC. Most everyone here already knows of ALEC, they’re this group of GOP operatives that write bad template laws that come out of the Tea Party’s wet dreams and then give them to shills like McClurkin to try and push through in every state they can. Stand Your Ground, for example is an ALEC dropping.

4. She brags about not knowing the most basic of elements of how government works, but still was able to unethically sneak an abusive “forced ultrasound image” law through.

Of course, the ACLU is all over these latest 4 bills.

Jump to bottom

305 comments

1 Pie-onist Overlord  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 8:01:04am
we have a hospice center you can put it in until it eventually dies” thing is particularly horrific and new to me)

What creeps me out is that somebody is making money from these “perinatal hospice” things.

2 Skip Intro  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 8:31:25am
A Ban on abortions after 6 weeks (earliest in the country, this would effectively outlaw abortion)
A 48 hour waiting period on Abortion

Soon, she’ll be seen as a RINO in the GOP when the next nutter proposes

1) A ban on all abortions after six weeks

2) A 6 week waiting period on abortion.

I’m actually surprised this hasn’t happened yet, but I’m positive that it will.

3 darthstar  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 9:13:17am
4 darthstar  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 9:13:51am

Gohmert is the face of the GOP now. Gohmert and Cruz and Rubio and Paul. Biden’s right…there is no Republican party.

5 HappyWarrior  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 9:13:58am

Where do these people come from? And I bet that Ms. McClurkin thinks she’s anti big government too and not seeing the massive hypocrisy. You want ot prevent abortion? You don’t shame women who do choose to get it. You don’t make birth control out to be an evil. You don’t act like helping poor and unwed mothers is socialism. McClurkin like too many on the right thinks the way to make abortion a rarity is to make the process a living hell for the women who decide to get one and that’s messed up.

6 HappyWarrior  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 9:15:08am

re: #3 darthstar

[Embedded content]

I wish he were younger. I don’t doubt Biden will be a sharp mind still but still I just wish he were a younger man, Don’t mean to sound ageist here but he’s old enough to be the father of many of the GOP candidates granted he’s more in touch with 2014 than they are but still.

7 Pie-onist Overlord  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 9:16:15am

ZOMG TEH LIBRULS WANTS TO DESTROY TEH INTERNSHIPS!!!!!
They think interns should be paid. THE HORROR!!!!!!!

8 GunstarGreen  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 9:17:56am

re: #1 Pie-onist Overlord

What creeps me out is that somebody is making money from these “perinatal hospice” things.

Take any bill proposed by a Republican that does anything other than simply directly deny someone the right to do something. You are guaranteed to find someone — and that someone is likely a friend/contributor of the bill’s sponsors — that stands to profit from the effects.

9 HappyWarrior  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 9:18:52am

re: #7 Pie-onist Overlord

ZOMG TEH LIBRULS WANTS TO DESTROY TEH INTERNSHIPS!!!!!
They think interns should be paid. THE HORROR!!!!!!!

[Embedded content]

Internships should be paid and I am honestly surprised more conservatives don’t embrace the concept. Conservatives are always bitching about how many young people in this generation live with Mom and Dad still.Well if you paid an intern, that person could live on their own and develop independent skills. It’s a load of shit not to pay interns. I’ve worked internships where I’ve been paid and where I haven’t. My work incentive was always higher at the paying one. Riddle me that.

10 Pie-onist Overlord  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 9:18:56am

EPIC FAIL

11 darthstar  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 9:19:04am
12 Dr. Matt  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 9:19:21am

RWNJs and their obsession with abortion is something I’ll never understand.

13 HappyWarrior  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 9:20:16am

re: #12 Dr. Matt

RWNJs and their obsession with abortion is something I’ll never understand.

What I don’t understand is the obsession with abortion and not an obsession to help those already here.

14 darthstar  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 9:20:17am

re: #10 Pie-onist Overlord

EPIC FAIL

[Embedded content]

So Mitch McConnell and Rand Paul are just friends with PACs?

15 Justanotherhuman  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 9:20:53am

My first reaction was, “Fuck that bitch” and now, I’ll try to be more reasonable than she’ll ever be.

16 GunstarGreen  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 9:21:55am

re: #9 HappyWarrior

Internships should be paid and I am honestly surprised more conservatives don’t embrace the concept. Conservatives are always bitching about how many young people in this generation live with Mom and Dad still.Well if you paid an intern, that person could live on their own and develop independent skills. It’s a load of shit not to pay interns. I’ve worked internships where I’ve been paid and where I haven’t. My work incentive was always higher at the paying one. Riddle me that.

Conservatives desire to create a permanent underclass of wage-slaves that are just that — slaves in all but name, owned by their 1% masters. Unpaid internships are one of the best ways of enforcing that. Work your ass off, using time that SHOULD have been spent earning money to get out under the yoke of corporate domination, to do work for free instead.

17 HappyWarrior  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 9:23:24am

The fact of the matter is companies would and could pay their employees more if less were concerned with giving their executives generous bonuses. i’m okay with bonuses and I don’t think that they should be prohibited but you can’t just use a big chunk of your profits to give a bonus to someone who’s already gotten a ton. Use that money to hire more employees for better wages and everyone wins in the end. Some would call this socialism. Others will call what it is,, a more practical approach to what Smith actually wrote about.

18 nines09  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 9:23:50am

Last year, she claimed a baby is “the largest organ in the body.”
Right there is stupid on a grand scale. Just think of the mental giants who voted for this twit.

19 Dr Lizardo  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 9:25:13am

More and more when I hear these lunatics open their pieholes and emit the foul intellectual flatulence that passes for their “ideas”, I’m convinced that Margaret Atwood’s The Handmaid’s Tale wasn’t so much a work of dystopian fiction as it was a work of prophecy.

20 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 9:25:40am

re: #7 Pie-onist Overlord

ZOMG TEH LIBRULS WANTS TO DESTROY TEH INTERNSHIPS!!!!!
They think interns should be paid. THE HORROR!!!!!!!

[Embedded content]

Well, they definitely wanted to destroy slavery, and succeeded, so the cheap labor lobby may have a point here.
/

21 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 9:26:06am

re: #7 Pie-onist Overlord

ZOMG TEH LIBRULS WANTS TO DESTROY TEH INTERNSHIPS!!!!!
They think interns should be paid. THE HORROR!!!!!!!

[Embedded content]

Germany has an internship system: they are paid (a pittance) but the intersnip is accompanied by an accredited course of study, which sets certain standards about shat they ghave to learn on the job. That is the company’s payoff for being able to employ sub-minimum wage labor.

22 Dr. Matt  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 9:26:09am

So, if a baby is just an “organ”, there are no laws about having organs removed.

23 GunstarGreen  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 9:27:27am

re: #17 HappyWarrior

Remember that picmeme from last thread? The one about “Everything that someone receives unearned is something that somebody else worked for without receiving?”

Yeah, that works the other way, too. Every dollar that an exec gets as a bonus on top of his already-preposterous salary is a dollar that somebody doing the ACTUAL work of the company worked for but didn’t get — thus they have less money, can’t buy as much, and the economy is in the shitter. The exec doesn’t buy American, he buys expensive import shit to keep up with the Joneses.

Economics 101.

24 Justanotherhuman  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 9:30:24am

So, yeah, another “business over a woman’s right to choose ” type. However, Mrs. (she’ll have you know) McClurkin, as the article points out, has 3 organs of her own with names, of course, and it makes you wonder why she doesn’t have an entire brood if she’s so hell-bent on making other women have as many as their body is capable of.

The twisted anatomy of Mary Sue McClurkin

weldbham.com

25 Pie-onist Overlord  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 9:30:46am

re: #23 GunstarGreen

Remember that picmeme from last thread? The one about “Everything that someone receives unearned is something that somebody else worked for without receiving?”

Yeah, that works the other way, too. Every dollar that an exec gets as a bonus on top of his already-preposterous salary is a dollar that somebody doing the ACTUAL work of the company worked for but didn’t get — thus they have less money, can’t buy as much, and the economy is in the shitter. The exec doesn’t buy American, he buys expensive import shit to keep up with the Joneses.

Economics 101.

The “Keeping Up With The Joneses” model is over, there are only The Joneses. Who are they gonna keep up with? The Kardashians?

26 Dr. Matt  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 9:31:30am

Imagine if abortions didn’t exist or were completely outlawed….what would RWNJ legislators do? There is such a singular focus/obsession to ban them yet they spend little to no time at all creating meaningful legislation that will help citizens, job growth, health care, the environment, etc.

27 Pie-onist Overlord  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 9:32:52am

re: #26 Dr. Matt

Imagine if abortions didn’t exist or were completely outlawed….what would RWNJ legislators do? There is such a singular focus/obsession to ban them yet they spend little to no time at all creating meaningful legislation that will help citizens, job growth, health care, the environment, etc.

Then they would focus on completely outlawing Teh Ghey.

28 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 9:33:25am

re: #8 GunstarGreen

Take any bill proposed by a Republican that does anything other than simply directly deny someone the right to do something. You are guaranteed to find someone — and that someone is likely a friend/contributor of the bill’s sponsors — that stands to profit from the effects.

Like Jan Brewer and some members of the AZ lege who are friends with those who own the for-profit prisons.

29 Pie-onist Overlord  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 9:48:34am

WTFITS

30 Dr. Matt  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 9:51:22am

re: #29 Pie-onist Overlord

Do we have any savvy programmers that can spam the hell out of that contest with fake names and email addies? >:)

paulbroun2014.com

31 HappyWarrior  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 9:52:07am

re: #23 GunstarGreen

Remember that picmeme from last thread? The one about “Everything that someone receives unearned is something that somebody else worked for without receiving?”

Yeah, that works the other way, too. Every dollar that an exec gets as a bonus on top of his already-preposterous salary is a dollar that somebody doing the ACTUAL work of the company worked for but didn’t get — thus they have less money, can’t buy as much, and the economy is in the shitter. The exec doesn’t buy American, he buys expensive import shit to keep up with the Joneses.

Economics 101.

Exactly.

32 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 9:52:09am
33 Justanotherhuman  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 9:52:42am

McClurkin does not show any public work or volunteer organizations for 10 yrs after she obtained her master’s in 1971, when she was given the job of Exec Dir of the Pelham CofC in 1981 which evidently was her jumping off point into business and ownership of Alabama Butane Co for 16 yrs.

openbama.org

I expect everything she’s done in her life has been because of connections, not due to her own merit. After all, by the time someone is at least 33 or so years old, the degree is stale and there’s no work experience. For most people, they’d be lucky to get a job selling clothes in a dept store with that kind of background.

I used to know Alabama pretty well, though, and saw some of my own semi-literate, uneducated relatives get pretty good positions because they were white males. I mean, these were men who never got out of middle school. Connections in Alabama are everything. I just hope that’s changing, but probably not.

34 Gus  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 9:55:23am

re: #32 NJDhockeyfan

[Embedded content]

All hail Dinnerjacket! Er, Generalisimo Chavez! I love it when these limo Leninists idolize militarism.

35 blueraven  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 9:56:36am

re: #32 NJDhockeyfan

And then again, No.

36 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 10:00:03am

re: #34 Gus

All hail Dinnerjacket! Er, Generalisimo Chavez! I love it when these limo Leninists idolize militarism.

He doesn’t have the guts to go to Venezuela and witness what’s going on. He’s got an invitation:

37 b.d.  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 10:00:11am

re: #32 NJDhockeyfan

[Embedded content]

Boy, I can hardly wait for Stone’s Chavez film.

Wager on insinuations that the US gave him cancer? I can only imagine that only state made tribute films to Kim Jong-il would be sappier

38 Dr. Matt  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 10:01:49am
Boehner Makes ‘Boner’ Joke
House Speaker John Boehner (R-OH) was in a jolly mood at his weekly press conference Thursday, cracking a joke about the phonetic spelling of his name (which is actually pronounced Bay-nurr).

“Mr. Camp,” a reporter said, perhaps jokingly referring to House Ways & Means Chair Dave Camp (R-MI), before asking a question about tax reform.

“It’s Boner,” the Speaker responded, to laughs.

If he was a ‘D’, the pearl clutching and swooning couch sessions would be underway by now.

39 Decatur Deb  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 10:02:47am

re: #15 Justanotherhuman

My first reaction was, “Fuck that bitch” and now, I’ll try to be more reasonable than she’ll ever be.

Just to show how rich the pickings are: I’m an uber-leftist for an Alabaman, and she is not even on my radar.

40 Lidane  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 10:03:58am
41 HappyWarrior  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 10:04:55am

re: #40 Lidane

[Embedded content]

Yeah so the suggestion is that we be more lke Afghanistan and North Korea. Uh no.

42 darthstar  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 10:06:51am
43 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 10:07:00am

re: #37 b.d.

Boy, I can hardly wait for Stone’s Chavez film.

Wager on insinuations that the US gave him cancer? I can only imagine that only state made tribute films to Kim Jong-il would be sappier

I bet he’s expecting an Oscar nomination too.

44 wrenchwench  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 10:07:07am

Speaking of Republican rebranding, the local gang forwarded this to the official party list:

They love a climate denier and Obama denouncer, no matter where he’s from.

45 HappyWarrior  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 10:08:53am

re: #44 wrenchwench

Speaking of Republican rebranding, the local gang forwarded this to the official party list:

[Embedded image]

They love a climate denier and Obama denouncer, no matter where he’s from.

They probably think he’s Vaclav Havel.

46 wrenchwench  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 10:10:18am

re: #45 HappyWarrior

They probably think he’s Vaclav Havel.

They probably think he’s a hero like Havel, instead of a corrupt has-been.

47 Dr. Matt  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 10:10:20am

re: #44 wrenchwench

Speaking of Republican rebranding, the local gang forwarded this to the official party list:

[Embedded image]

They love a climate denier and Obama denouncer, no matter where he’s from.

Jebus, who pissed in his cheerios? Clearly he’s upset that President Obama never bought him that pony he promised.

48 Eclectic Cyborg  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 10:10:37am

re: #13 HappyWarrior

What I don’t understand is the obsession with abortion and not an obsession to help those already here.

Surely the Bible doesn’t say anything about helping those already here…

49 HappyWarrior  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 10:10:40am

re: #46 wrenchwench

They probably think he’s a hero like Havel, instead of a corrupt has-been.

Yeah.

50 Bubblehead II  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 10:11:09am

Cue the splodey heads.

DC orders insurers to cover sex-change surgery

Mayor Vincent Gray says the new rules will end health-care discrimination against the transgender population and put “the district at the forefront of advancing the rights of transgender individuals.”

51 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 10:12:54am

Russian Spy Ship Docks in Havana

A Russian Vishnya class warship docked in Havana on Wednesday without explanation from Communist Cuba or its state media. The Viktor Leonov CCB-175 boat measures 300 feet long, 50 feet wide and holds a crew of around 200.

Built in the 1980s for the Soviet Navy and deployed within the Russian fleet, Vishnya class ships are used for gathering intelligence. The ship is reportedly armed with 30mm guns and anti-aircraft missiles.

Neither Cuban authorities nor state media have mentioned the ship’s visit, unlike previous tours by Russian warships. Its visit comes as Venezuela, Havana’s current isolated economic and political patron, is facing unprecedented violent protests against President Nicolas Maduro’s government.

Let’s hope the NSA is listening on those communications.

52 Kragar  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 10:13:25am

New York pastor: Obama sending ‘white homo demons’ to ‘scoop up’ black men

In a YouTube video posted on Tuesday, Atlah World Missionary Church Rev. James David Manning said that he had displayed the following sign outside his Harlem church: “Obama has released the homo demons on the black man. Look out black woman. A white homo may take your man.”

“Obama has released these demons, particularly upon the black males,” he explained. “This homosexual demon, hoping to influence as many black males to subscribe to ideas that homosexual perverted LGBT as possible.”

As evidence, Manning pointed to the “outing” of basketball player Jason Collins and football player Michael Sam.

53 HappyWarrior  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 10:14:18am
54 Pie-onist Overlord  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 10:16:08am

re: #52 Kragar

New York pastor: Obama sending ‘white homo demons’ to ‘scoop up’ black men

55 Decatur Deb  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 10:17:23am

re: #52 Kragar

New York pastor: Obama sending ‘white homo demons’ to ‘scoop up’ black men

Gay Black in the back pew: “Man, dodged a bullet there.”

56 Charles Johnson  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 10:18:08am

The latest BREAKING BOMBSHELL news from Edward Snowden’s stolen documents: Yahoo Webcam Images From Millions of Users Intercepted by GCHQ.

I don’t really understand how they can claim it’s a violation of privacy to collect public images of chat sessions. There’s no spying here. Anyone could do this.

57 Bubblehead II  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 10:18:13am

re: #51 NJDhockeyfan

Russian Spy Ship Docks in Havana

Let’s hope the NSA is listening on those communications.

I am quite sure that that ship has been under constant surveillance of some sort ever since it left port.

58 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 10:18:45am

re: #52 Kragar

New York pastor: Obama sending ‘white homo demons’ to ‘scoop up’ black men

A separatist crank. Look up Manning or the church itself on Wikipedia.

59 Decatur Deb  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 10:19:25am

re: #57 Bubblehead II

I am quite sure that that ship has been under constant surveillance of some sort ever since it left port.

In Havana, Russian ship is spy on you.

60 kirkspencer  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 10:20:07am

re: #40 Lidane

So let me get this straight. He wants us to have the economic strength of North Korea and Iran instead of what we’ve got?

61 Charles Johnson  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 10:24:02am

Sorry, I misread. The chat images were collected through GCHQ’s taps on Internet cables. OK. I actually sort of think they have a point with this one.

62 Bubblehead II  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 10:24:53am

re: #59 Decatur Deb

In Havana, Russian ship is spy on you.

True dat. I just wonder if we are going to see more of these visits from the Russian fleet as Putin tries to renew ties with Cuba.
With Venezuela going the way it is, Cuba is probably going to need another BFF.

63 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 10:25:04am

New Black Country song: “You Ain’t Homo Enough to Take my Man”

64 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 10:28:45am

OK, it is now official.

Kentucky gay marriage ruling implemented

Kentucky must now recognize same sex marrriages performed in states where it is legal.

U.S. District Judge John G. Heyburn today made final a ruling issued earlier this month in which he found that Kentucky’s marriage amendment and statutes violate of the right to equal protection under the law.

“Those laws … are void and unenforceable,” he said in a one page order.

Earlier today, Attorney General Jack Conway’s office asked Heyburn to stay enforcement of his ruling but for now it will go into effect.

Citing the importance of the case, Conway’s office asked U.S. District Judge John G. Heyburn II to delay the effective date of his order for 90 days to give Conway the chance to decide whether to appeal.

65 Gus  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 10:29:43am

Is it OK for LE to intercept the webcam images of a suspected pedophile? How about a terrorist plotting a massive bomb plot?

66 Bubblehead II  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 10:30:19am

Lunch time. Back in a bit.

67 Mattand  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 10:30:57am

re: #61 Charles Johnson

Sorry, I misread. The chat images were collected through GCHQ’s taps on Internet cables. OK. I actually sort of think they have a point with this one.

Broken clock rule in effect. Suggest changing to Broken Greenwald Rule.

68 Kragar  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 10:32:05am

re: #65 Gus

Is it OK for LE to intercept the webcam images of a suspected pedophile? How about a terrorist plotting a massive bomb plot?

In those cases, one would assume there was a warrant or probable cause, which would be valid. Mass interception of video images phishing for evidence would be illegal.

69 Decatur Deb  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 10:33:15am

re: #65 Gus

Is it OK for LE to intercept the webcam images of a suspected pedophile? How about a terrorist plotting a massive bomb plot?

If only there were some way to get a court’s permission…

70 Mattand  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 10:33:20am

LOL, establish a pattern of behavior much?

Christie Pals Joked About Causing ‘Traffic Problems’ At Home Of N.J. Rabbi

Bonus points for starting to mix a little anti-Semitism into the Bridgegate mix.

Why are these people not being brought up on charges?

71 HappyWarrior  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 10:34:16am

re: #70 Mattand

LOL, establish a pattern of behavior much?

Christie Pals Joked About Causing ‘Traffic Problems’ At Home Of N.J. Rabbi

Bonus points for starting to mix a little anti-Semitism into the Bridgegate mix.

Why are these people not being brought up on charges?

And Obama’s detractors talk about “Chicago politics” in regards to Obama. This is pathetic. Really wish the Dems had in NJ had put up a decent challenge to the guy.

72 Pie-onist Overlord  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 10:35:08am

re: #70 Mattand

LOL, establish a pattern of behavior much?

Christie Pals Joked About Causing ‘Traffic Problems’ At Home Of N.J. Rabbi

Bonus points for starting to mix a little anti-Semitism into the Bridgegate mix.

Why are these people not being brought up on charges?

Would that rabbi happen to be Shmuely Boteach?

73 Mattand  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 10:35:21am

re: #69 Decatur Deb

If only there were some way to get a court’s permission…

That’s Greenwald’s next article: on how warrants don’t exist in America. Make sure to skip to paragraph 23 where he eventually contradicts himself and says they do exist.

74 Lidane  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 10:36:22am
75 Dr Lizardo  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 10:37:02am

re: #47 Dr. Matt

Jebus, who pissed in his cheerios? Clearly he’s upset that President Obama never bought him that pony he promised.

It’s indeterminate whether Klaus actually said that or not.

snopes.com

It allegedly appeared in the Prager Zeitung, but again, indeterminate as to the actual source of the quote.

76 Petero1818  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 10:37:17am

Is there not a state or 2 we can isolate these folks and the religious freedom folks in and let them have their little theocracy?

77 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 10:37:24am

More news from one of the dudebro bastions of liberty:

Hong Kong newspaper editor who had criticised Chinese government is in a critical condition after being hacked with meat cleaver

They have a different definition of “whack-job” in that part of the world.

78 kirkspencer  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 10:37:30am

re: #65 Gus

Is it OK for LE to intercept the webcam images of a suspected pedophile? How about a terrorist plotting a massive bomb plot?

Wait, you’re going to toss the ticking clock defense?

Here’s the simple. “suspected” has both a popular and a legal standard and they’re not the same. The first is gossip and using it means there are no restrictions. The latter is “show someone some evidence for the belief” and is the basis for warrants, subpoenas, and so forth.

So is it OK for LE to intercept these? It depends.

79 Killgore Trout  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 10:37:36am

Here’s why the Feds monitor the online activity of radicals
FBI Accuses U.K.’s Lauri Love of Hacking Into Federal Reserve

Lauri Love, a Briton well known in the Occupy activist community, is facing yet another charge alleging that he hacked into the online system of a major American government institution.

The Federal Bureau of Investigations unsealed an eight-page indictment on Thursday accusing Love of illegally accessing the servers of the Federal Reserve, the U.S. central bank. The complaint alleges Love stole personal data about users of the system and later posted those names, addresses and other pieces of information online.

Love, 28, made headlines in October when he was arrested in his native England on charges that he illegally accessed servers of several U.S. systems including the U.S. military, NASA and the Environmental Protection Agency.

80 Decatur Deb  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 10:37:48am

re: #72 Pie-onist Overlord

Would that rabbi happen to be Shmuely Boteach?

Mendy Carlebach, per the article.

81 Gus  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 10:37:48am

re: #68 Kragar

In those cases, one would assume there was a warrant or probable cause, which would be valid. Mass interception of video images phishing for evidence would be illegal.

Yes. But this is GCHQ in the UK where you can be arrested for offending someone on Twitter.

82 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 10:38:10am

My kids got a kick out of this video the other night.

Youtube Video

Great Icebreaker video for a HAZMAT Class demonstrating the dangers of insecure high pressure cylinders in a highway accident. This was an accident that occurred in Russia. Russians have dashcams in order to provide additional evidence in court due to guard against police corruption and insurance fraud.

83 Flying Squirrel Girl  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 10:38:36am

re: #16 GunstarGreen

To me, it’s not so much about what businesses get from unpaid interns. It is the unfair advantage created by an intern who is ABLE to take a job without pay. Poor kids who get through college on loans, grants and/or scholarships won’t have the option of working for free to prove themselves to a company; rich kids will, and their willingness to work for free just might be rewarded with a paid position eventually.

84 Pie-onist Overlord  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 10:38:38am

re: #80 Decatur Deb

Mendy Carlebach, per the article.

Whoever that is…

Maybe one of my kids knows him.

85 Mattand  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 10:39:17am

re: #71 HappyWarrior

And Obama’s detractors talk about “Chicago politics” in regards to Obama. This is pathetic. Really wish the Dems had in NJ had put up a decent challenge to the guy.

That’s the problem in NJ, though. Much as I hate going to the Balance Fairy well, the Dems here can be just as noxious as the GOP.

My congressman, Rob Andrews, is suddenly quitting to go to take a private sector job. He’s been dogged by ethics questions surrounding some trips he’s taken.

The Dem who’s running to replace is part of the Norcross clan, which pretty much controls the Dems here. You can’t take a you-know-what without getting their permission.

My complaint is that as much as I don’t like Christie, I actually took him at his word that he wouldn’t engage in business as usual. Won’t make that mistake again.

86 Decatur Deb  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 10:40:55am

re: #84 Pie-onist Overlord

Whoever that is…

Maybe one of my kids knows him.

Says he’s Chabad.

87 Pie-onist Overlord  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 10:42:13am

re: #86 Decatur Deb

Says he’s Chabad.

So very high probability that one or more of my kids knows him.

88 Mattand  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 10:42:29am

re: #72 Pie-onist Overlord

Had to look that one up, LOL. Never heard of the guy.

Probably nothing to do with Shumley.

89 The War TARDIS  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 10:42:59am

There is one other factor in the Crimea. Demographics. Namely, Russian are losing their majority status rapidly.

The population of the Crimean Peninsula has been consistently falling at a rate of 0.4% per year.[57] This is particularly apparent in both the Russian and Ukrainian ethnic populations, whose growth rate has been falling at the rate of 0.6% and 0.12% annually respectively. In comparison, the ethnic Crimean Tatar population has been growing at the rate of 0.9% per annum.[58]

The growing trend in the Crimean Tatar population has been explained by the continuing repatriation of Crimean Tatars mainly from Uzbekistan.

I think I heard somewhere that the Tatars also have a higher fertility rate.

90 chadu  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 10:43:07am
Alabama’s McClurkin, “Gohmert in a dress,”

Pass the brain bleach, plz.

KTHXBYE.

91 Dr. Matt  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 10:43:13am

re: #75 Dr Lizardo

It’s indeterminate whether Klaus actually said that or not.

snopes.com

It allegedly appeared in the Prager Zeitung, but again, indeterminate as to the actual source of the quote.

It doesn’t matter if it’s fake if it sounds good!

92 HappyWarrior  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 10:43:28am

re: #85 Mattand

That’s the problem in NJ, though. Much as I hate going to the Balance Fairy well, the Dems here can be just as noxious as the GOP.

My congressman, Rob Andrews, is suddenly quitting to go to take a private sector job. He’s been dogged by ethics questions surrounding some trips he’s taken.

The Dem who’s running to replace is part of the Norcross clan, which pretty much controls the Dems here. You can’t take a you-know-what without getting their permission.

My complaint is that as much as I don’t like Christie, I actually took him at his word that he wouldn’t engage in business as usual. Won’t make that mistake again.

Yeah gotcha. It’s unfortunate really.

93 RadicalModerate  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 10:43:35am

re: #7 Pie-onist Overlord

ZOMG TEH LIBRULS WANTS TO DESTROY TEH INTERNSHIPS!!!!!
They think interns should be paid. THE HORROR!!!!!!!

[Embedded content]

Let me get this straight. France wants to have some basic protections from exploitation for people working as interns, and this is some sort of assault on companies’ freedoms.

Here’s what is proposed.
1. Interns working for more than two months are entitled to pay.
2. Interns cannot be forced to work longer hours than paid employees, cannot be forced to work on holidays, and cannot be assigned to more dangerous tasks than regular workers.
3. No more than 10% of a company’s workforce can consist of interns.
4. Accountability for employers complying with labor laws affecting interns.

I’m guessing that what the opponents to this are hoping for is their own slave workforce, since a significant percentage of the individuals in this program are foreign nationals on work/school visas, and if they leave the job, they are subject to deportation.

94 The War TARDIS  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 10:44:52am

re: #89 The War TARDIS

The Russian Majority in Crimea has fallen from 67.1% in 1989, to 58.3% in 2001.

By now, the Russians are probably only about 51-52%?

95 HappyWarrior  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 10:45:28am

re: #94 The War TARDIS

The Russian Majority in Crimea has fallen from 67.1% in 1989, to 58.3% in 2001.

By now, the Russians are probably only about 51-52%?

If rates have been the same since 2001 then yeah that would be about right.

96 chadu  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 10:45:43am

re: #11 darthstar

97 Pie-onist Overlord  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 10:45:46am

re: #93 RadicalModerate

Let me get this straight. France wants to have some basic protections from exploitation for people working as interns, and this is some sort of assault on companies’ freedoms.

Here’s what is proposed.
1. Interns working for more than two months are entitled to pay.
2. Interns cannot be forced to work longer hours than paid employees, cannot be forced to work on holidays, and cannot be assigned to more dangerous tasks than regular workers.
3. No more than 10% of a company’s workforce can consist of interns.
4. Accountability for employers complying with labor laws affecting interns.

I’m guessing that what the opponents to this are hoping for is their own slave workforce, since a significant percentage of the individuals in this program are foreign nationals on work/school visas, and if they leave the job, they are subject to deportation.

I think they want to avoid something like this.

98 Kragar  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 10:46:53am
99 chadu  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 10:47:00am

re: #22 Dr. Matt

So, if a baby is just an “organ”, there are no laws about having organs removed.

You’re wrong, because shut up.

100 Dr Lizardo  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 10:47:03am

re: #94 The War TARDIS

The Russian Majority in Crimea has fallen from 67.1% in 1989, to 58.3% in 2001.

By now, the Russians are probably only about 51-52%?

That sounds about right; probably why they’re freaking out. If that trend holds, they’ll be a minority in a decade.

101 RadicalModerate  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 10:47:17am

re: #74 Lidane

[Embedded content]

They want him to be impeached over not enforcing a law (DOMA) that has been found to be unconstitutional by the US Supreme Court?

102 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 10:47:45am

re: #93 RadicalModerate

Let me get this straight. France wants to have some basic protections from exploitation for people working as interns, and this is some sort of assault on companies’ freedoms.

Here’s what is proposed.
1. Interns working for more than two months are entitled to pay.
2. Interns cannot be forced to work longer hours than paid employees, cannot be forced to work on holidays, and cannot be assigned to more dangerous tasks than regular workers.
3. No more than 10% of a company’s workforce can consist of interns.
4. Accountability for employers complying with labor laws affecting interns.

I’m guessing that what the opponents to this are hoping for is their own slave workforce, since a significant percentage of the individuals in this program are foreign nationals on work/school visas, and if they leave the job, they are subject to deportation.

Their parents were probably wondering why they were wearing pledge pins (on their uniforms!)
//

103 The War TARDIS  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 10:47:57am

re: #95 HappyWarrior

And I distinctly remember a Crimean Tatar leader saying he was going to make a harder push for the exiled Tatars in Russia and Uzbekistan to come home.

Or, to put it another way, this is the Crimean Tea Party.

104 Kragar  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 10:49:13am
Republicans like Rep. Christy Perry fought Gannon’s bill on the grounds that forcing Followers of Christ parents to take their sick and injured children to the doctor would infringe upon their religious liberty.

“This is about religious beliefs, the belief God is in charge of whether they live, and God is in charge of whether they die,” Perry said earlier this year. “This is about where they go for eternity.”

“Sorry kids, we could take you to a doctor and you could be better in 2 or 3 days, but we’d rather you vomit yourself to death because we love you so much.”

Fucking animals.

105 HappyWarrior  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 10:49:55am

re: #98 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Really, fucking really.

106 HappyWarrior  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 10:50:16am

re: #104 Kragar

“Sorry kids, we could take you to to doctor and you could be better in 2 or 3 days, but we’d rather you vomit yourself to death because we love you so much.”

Fucking animals.

Yeah it’s downright evil.

107 Petero1818  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 10:50:30am

re: #87 Pie-onist Overlord

So very high probability that one or more of my kids knows him.

My guess is the Rabbi may have a problem. Christie’s team wanted to punish him for something, and he claims he has no idea why. Sounds to me like he may have given in to what Chritie wanted, whatever it was, and doesn’t want to reveal what that may have been. No proof obvioulsy just a gut reaction to the Rabbi’s comment.

108 chadu  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 10:51:05am

re: #52 Kragar

New York pastor: Obama sending ‘white homo demons’ to ‘scoop up’ black men

PRO-TIP: Old Spice keeps the white homo demons away.

I’m not sure what keeps away the black, brown, and ROYGBIV demons, though.

Someone drop some science on that, stat.

109 Kragar  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 10:51:10am

re: #106 HappyWarrior

Yeah it’s downright evil.

The parents should be arrested for child abuse and lose the kids.

110 Decatur Deb  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 10:52:16am

re: #87 Pie-onist Overlord

So very high probability that one or more of my kids knows him.

Pretty sloppy conspiracy you’re running there, if you don’t know the name and hat size of all your leaders.

111 HappyWarrior  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 10:52:19am

re: #109 Kragar

The parents should be arrested for child abuse and lose the kids.

Yeah totally agree with that. it’s one thing to refuse medical treatment for yourself because of bizzaro beliefs, it’s another thing to deny them to your chlidren.

112 Dr Lizardo  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 10:53:45am

re: #108 chadu

PRO-TIP: Old Spice keeps the white homo demons away.

I’m not sure what keeps away the black, brown, and ROYGBIV demons, though.

Someone drop some science on that, stat.

113 Lidane  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 10:54:08am

Bill O’Reilly mansplaining things to the unenlightened:

114 RadicalModerate  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 10:54:45am

re: #98 Kragar

[Embedded content]

FTA:

Democratic state Rep. John Gannon proposed the measure after the deaths of several children whose parents attend Followers of Christ churches in the state. Officials estimate that some 144 children are buried in a Followers of Christ cemetery overlooking the Snake River.

Republicans like Rep. Christy Perry fought Gannon’s bill on the grounds that forcing Followers of Christ parents to take their sick and injured children to the doctor would infringe upon their religious liberty.

One Hundred Forty-Four children. And this isn’t a case of them dying in the distant past - half a dozen fully preventable deaths happened in the past 18 months alone.

115 darthstar  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 10:55:55am

Gotta love how the oatmeal can fix an image and make it meaningful.

116 Pie-onist Overlord  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 10:56:00am

re: #110 Decatur Deb

Pretty sloppy conspiracy you’re running there, if you don’t know the name and hat size of all your leaders.

Hmm. Found this.

117 lawhawk  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 10:56:09am

re: #61 Charles Johnson

It might have a point if I were a Brit using Yahoo in that fashion and it was my images that were swept up in the GCHQ’s taps on Internet cables.

Except that I’m not a British citizen in the UK, so it’s not the NSA spying on me (in other words, as a US citizen, I’m not being spied upon by a US agency). Another government, like the Brits, can attempt to spy on me, but all they’ll get are lots of photos of national parks, some transportation blogging, and complaining about government incompetence, failures, and scandals.

If that’s where they want to spend their resources, go right ahead.

118 chadu  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 10:56:43am

re: #52 Kragar

“Obama has released these demons, particularly upon the black males,” he explained. “This homosexual demon, hoping to influence as many black males to subscribe to ideas that homosexual perverted LGBT as possible.”

Here’s a question for Sparky McGenius:

What if Obama was releasing hetero demons, “hoping to influence as many (black) males to subscribe to ideas that hetero normal straightness as possible”? Would that be cool?

I’m wondering if it’s the demon-summoning or teh ghey which is worse.

Just asking questions.

119 The War TARDIS  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 10:56:46am

re: #113 Lidane

Do I need to bring up the Sultanate of Women era of the Ottoman Empire?

For a start?

120 Justanotherhuman  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 10:57:02am

re: #104 Kragar

“Sorry kids, we could take you to a doctor and you could be better in 2 or 3 days, but we’d rather you vomit yourself to death because we love you so much.”

Fucking animals.

Those kids are just organs anyway; lop ‘em off. ///

121 RadicalModerate  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 10:59:00am

re: #113 Lidane

Bill O’Reilly mansplaining things to the unenlightened:

[Embedded content]

Outside of the most religiously repressed societies, almost every nation in the world has had a woman as their leader at some point in time, both in ancient and modern history.

Notable Exception: The United States.

122 chadu  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 10:59:01am

re: #54 Pie-onist Overlord

[Embedded content]

Also, how far away are we from Obama releasing white hetero demons hoping to influence as many black males to go after white women, pastor?

THANKS, OBAMA!

123 HappyWarrior  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 11:00:04am

re: #113 Lidane

Bill O’Reilly mansplaining things to the unenlightened:

[Embedded content]

Gee Bill. Pander to sexist assholes much.

124 Decatur Deb  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 11:00:12am

re: #116 Pie-onist Overlord

Hmm. Found this.

They’re not friends any longer. The rabbi should never have talked him into the tour of Hezekiah’s Tunnel.

125 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 11:00:30am

re: #122 chadu

Also, how far away are we from Obama releasing white hetero demons hoping to influence as many black males to go after white women, pastor?

THANKS, OBAMA!

According to this pastor they only get the “trashier” white women though.
///

126 chadu  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 11:00:33am

re: #70 Mattand

LOL, establish a pattern of behavior much?

Christie Pals Joked About Causing ‘Traffic Problems’ At Home Of N.J. Rabbi

Bonus points for starting to mix a little anti-Semitism into the Bridgegate mix.

Why are these people not being brought up on charges?

IOKIYAR.

127 HappyWarrior  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 11:00:42am

re: #121 RadicalModerate

Outside of the most religiously repressed societies, almost every nation in the world has had a woman as their leader at some point in time, both in ancient and modern history.

Notable Exception: The United States.

Exactly. Hell even Pakistan has had a woman as a national leader. But Bill I guess has to pander to the know nothings that make up Fox’s audiences.

128 Decatur Deb  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 11:01:19am

re: #121 RadicalModerate

Outside of the most religiously repressed societies, almost every nation in the world has had a woman as their leader at some point in time, both in ancient and modern history.

Notable Exception: The United States.

Some Point in Time isn’t over.

129 Lidane  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 11:02:00am

re: #113 Lidane

“There haven’t been that many strong women leaders throughout history,” O’Reilly countered, noting Margaret Thatcher and women in the U.S. Congress as exceptions. “But you know when you’re president of the United States you have to deal with people like Putin. You got to deal with real ornery — the Mullahs in Iran. Look, the Mullahs in Iran, they think women are like subspecies.”

Because women like Angela Merkel and Dilma Rousseff don’t deal with Putin or the Mullahs in Iran. WTF.

130 darthstar  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 11:02:39am

More info from the un-redacted emails of Wildstein…and these don’t look so flattering.

The texts occurred six days after Kelly sent to Wildstein her now-infamous email, “Time for some traffic problems in Fort Lee,” setting off more than four days of gridlock in the borough in mid-September.

In the texts about the chaplain, Wildstein sent Kelly a picture of Rabbi Mendy Carlebach, later writing: “And he has officially pissed me off.”

“Clearly,” Kelly responded on Aug. 19.

“We cannot cause traffic problems in front of his house, can we?” Kelly wrote.

“Flights to Tel Aviv all mysteriously delayed,” wrote Wildstein, an executive at the bi-state agency that controls the region’s airports.

“Perfect,” Kelly wrote.

- See more at: northjersey.com

131 chadu  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 11:03:09am

re: #101 RadicalModerate

They want him to be impeached over not enforcing a law (DOMA) that has been found to be unconstitutional by the US Supreme Court?

You’re wrong, because shut up.

132 Lidane  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 11:03:14am

re: #123 HappyWarrior

Gee Bill. Pander to sexist assholes much.

Gotta go with what you know.

133 Targetpractice  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 11:04:03am

re: #113 Lidane

Bill O’Reilly mansplaining things to the unenlightened:

[Embedded content]

Seriously? I thought conservatives these days still spoke Thatcher’s name with the sort of reverence reserved for saints and martyrs.

134 HappyWarrior  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 11:04:05am

re: #129 Lidane

Because women like Angela Merkel and Dilma Rousseff don’t deal with Putin or the Mullahs in Iran. WTF.

He’s a dishonest asshole.

135 Justanotherhuman  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 11:04:06am

re: #98 Kragar

[Embedded content]

“Gannon said that he hoped to end needless deaths in Idaho like 15-year-old Arrian Jade Granden, who contracted food poisoning in June of 2012. The girl bled to death internally after her esophagus ruptured from three days of constant vomiting.

“Toddler Preston John Bowers died in March of 2011 at the age of 22 months from untreated bacterial pneumonia. That same month, 14-year-old Rockwell Alexander Sevy also died of treatable pneumonia.

“Gannon said in January, “”Medical treatment for physical harm to a child should supersede every other consideration,” even the religious beliefs of the parents.”

Those motherfucking “parents” should fucking be in fucking jail, fucking child abusers. Fuck their religious beliefs. They killed their own kids.

136 HappyWarrior  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 11:04:54am

re: #133 Targetpractice

Seriously? I thought conservatives these days still spoke Thatcher’s name with the sort of reverence reserved for saints and martyrs.

It’s Thursday so today is claiming that this is a man’s world. Tomorrow will be claiming that conservatives are more pro women than liberals are and that Obama’s has the real war on women.

137 Kragar  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 11:06:03am

re: #122 chadu

Also, how far away are we from Obama releasing white hetero demons hoping to influence as many black males to go after white women, pastor?

THANKS, OBAMA!

What about white women demons stealing there man?
What about Hispanic demons of either sex stealing there man?
What about Asian demons?

Are there certain demons we need to be especially worried about, and what are the various means of protection? A circle of salt? Powdered iron? Harnessing ones chi?

138 Lidane  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 11:06:20am

re: #133 Targetpractice

Seriously? I thought conservatives these days still spoke Thatcher’s name with the sort of reverence reserved for saints and martyrs.

Thatcher’s an exception, don’tcha know. It’s HARD out there for a woman leader, y’all, because she has to deal with sexist assholes who think she’s inferior. So you know, the answer is not to aim for a leadership position.

Asshole.

139 Charles Johnson  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 11:07:13am
140 chadu  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 11:07:29am

re: #133 Targetpractice

Seriously? I thought conservatives these days still spoke Thatcher’s name with the sort of reverence reserved for saints and martyrs.

Doesn’t count, because RWNJs can only hold two “facts” in their head at a time.

141 Targetpractice  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 11:07:45am

re: #138 Lidane

Thatcher’s an exception, don’tcha know. It’s HARD out there for a woman leader, y’all, because she has to deal with sexist assholes who think she’s inferior. So you know, the answer is not to aim for a leadership position.

Asshole.

Bill would be more honest if he just declared that, as a man, he thinks that Hillary should stay home and bake cookies rather than consider running for the presidency.

142 chadu  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 11:08:35am

re: #137 Kragar

What about white women demons stealing there man?
What about Hispanic demons of either sex stealing there man?
What about Asian demons?

Are there certain demons we need to be especially worried about, and what are the various means of protection? A circle of salt? Powdered iron? Harnessing ones chi?

This demon rabbit-hole goes deeper than expected, pastor.

143 Targetpractice  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 11:09:13am

re: #142 chadu

This demon rabbit-hole goes deeper than expected, pastor.

Why, oh why, didn’t I take the blue pill?

144 Justanotherhuman  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 11:09:26am

Sorry for all the profanity, but damn it, my chain has been pulled by too many total morons out there in Politicalville today.

I’m old and don’t have much time or patience to deal with as much as we’re seeing these days.

145 wrenchwench  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 11:09:39am
146 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 11:09:45am

re: #113 Lidane

Bill O’Reilly mansplaining things to the unenlightened:

[Embedded content]

Queen Elizabeth (both of them)…not amused…

147 darthstar  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 11:10:10am

re: #139 Charles Johnson

Just make sure you lock 255.255.255.0 so the dogs don’t get out.

148 RadicalModerate  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 11:10:29am

re: #139 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Get with the times.

It should be “There’s no place like ::1” now.

///

149 Targetpractice  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 11:11:25am

re: #146 Backwoods_Sleuth

Queen Elizabeth (both of them)…not amused…

The thing is, both Elizabeths would get a chuckle out of a man standing before them and saying that a woman cannot a strong leader. Though times have changed, as the First Liz would have then had him locked in the Tower for a bit to make her point.

150 HappyWarrior  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 11:12:07am

re: #145 wrenchwench

[Embedded content]

Slovenia also has a woman PM too. Bill O is being stupidly dishonest.

151 HappyWarrior  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 11:12:45am

Queen Boudica rofls at Bill.

152 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 11:12:50am

re: #150 HappyWarrior

Slovenia also has a woman PM too. Bill O is being stupidly dishonest.

He is just passing out anti-Hillary talking points to his target audience.

153 Dr Lizardo  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 11:12:59am

re: #119 The War TARDIS

Do I need to bring up the Sultanate of Women era of the Ottoman Empire?

For a start?

Or Golda Meir?

Margaret Thatcher?

Regardless of what one may have thought of their politics, those two recent examples right there pretty much make O’Reilly look like an absolute fool.

Which of course, he is.

154 RadicalModerate  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 11:13:44am

re: #145 wrenchwench

[Embedded content]

And if you want to go with religious societies, let’s throw Golda Meir and Indira Gandhi into the mix as well.

155 Justanotherhuman  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 11:14:09am

re: #150 HappyWarrior

Slovenia also has a woman PM too. Bill O is being stupidly dishonest.

Two words, no, 3 words for BO: Andrea Mackris and falafel.

156 Decatur Deb  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 11:14:21am

re: #149 Targetpractice

The thing is, both Elizabeths would get a chuckle out of a man standing before them and saying that a woman cannot a strong leader. Though times have changed, as the First Liz would have then had him locked in the Tower for a bit to make her point.

The Irish had a ‘pirate’ queen, Grania O’Malley, who fought her to a draw.

157 Targetpractice  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 11:15:25am

Hey Bill, Catherine the Great on Line 1. Nefertiti on Line 2. Isabella I on Line 3.

158 Pie-onist Overlord  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 11:16:05am

Victoria.

159 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 11:17:22am

re: #139 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Oh, I need a cup like that.

160 HappyWarrior  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 11:18:11am

re: #156 Decatur Deb

The Irish had a ‘pirate’ queen, Grania O’Malley, who fought her to a draw.

Named the whiskey and ginger ale mixer I sometimes make after her.

161 Pie-onist Overlord  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 11:18:25am

Wait for Max Blumenthal to retweet the crap out of it.

162 Charles Johnson  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 11:20:31am
163 Dr Lizardo  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 11:21:08am

re: #161 Pie-onist Overlord

Wait for Max Blumenthal to retweet the crap out of it.

[Embedded content]

PressTV? Sounds legit.

//////

*headdesk*

164 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 11:22:05am

Big h/t to Kafitrar for providing this excellent link:
Fred Clark at Slacktivist
According to Clark, young earth creationism is an outgrowth of the “clobber-text hermeneutic designed to defend white ownership of slaves,” as are anti-gay bigotry and gender inequality.

This linkage is perfectly clear to anyone who understands the history of fundamentalism in this country, but only once it is spelled out. It provides a significant insight into the many conflicts we are having between civilization and fundamentalism. It may well explain the recent growth of fundamentalism, as a reactionary response to the progress we have seen in certain areas of equality in recent years.

As a descendent of southern unionists, I see fundamentalism and its “clobber text” antecedents as part of the effort to win the white working class over to the pro-slavery view in the old south. This was necessary because the working class did not have a stake in slavery, and resented the haughty “planter” class pseudo-aristocracy in any case. In more isolated areas, the effort failed completely, which is why unionism and outright rebellion against the Confederacy flourished among the hillbillies of southern Appalachia. I have also wondered if this might have something to do with the vilification of hillbillies in popular culture, a prejudice whose growth happened to coincide with the revisionist “Lost Cause” era of Civil War historiography.

165 Mattand  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 11:22:09am

re: #113 Lidane

Bill O’Reilly mansplaining things to the unenlightened:

[Embedded content]

If there’s a new low in bigotry or ignorance, Fox News is there to pull it from the septic tank and hold it aloft like Simba from The Lion King.

Keep living the dream, Bill.

166 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 11:22:26am

re: #162 Charles Johnson

Remember, folks - if you ever communicate with someone on Twitter, that means you agree with all their opinions from then on]

But if you retweet a bigoted comment and get called out for it you deny any association…

167 blueraven  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 11:22:48am

re: #111 HappyWarrior

Yeah totally agree with that. it’s one thing to refuse medical treatment for yourself because of bizzaro beliefs, it’s another thing to deny them to your chlidren.

The Religious Right are strange creatures:

Defend, at all cost, keeping a non-viable fetus alive inside a rotting, brain dead corpse.
Defend not seeking medical attention for children due to religious beliefs.

168 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 11:25:31am

Still waiting for the other shoe to drop…

169 EPR-radar  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 11:27:19am

re: #144 Justanotherhuman

Sorry for all the profanity, but damn it, my chain has been pulled by too many total morons out there in Politicalville today.

I’m old and don’t have much time or patience to deal with as much as we’re seeing these days.

Kids dying needlessly because of their parent’s stupid ideas about faith healing, followed by GOP obstruction of the obvious remedy because “religious freedom”, is enough to run anyone out of patience.

170 Amory Blaine  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 11:28:50am

171 HappyWarrior  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 11:29:01am

re: #167 blueraven

The Religious Right are strange creatures:

Defend, at all cost, keeping a non-viable fetus alive inside a rotting, brain dead corpse.
Defend not seeking medical attention for children due to religious beliefs.

Heh good point.

172 jaunte  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 11:34:32am
173 Dr. Matt  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 11:35:16am

re: #113 Lidane

Bill O’Reilly mansplaining things to the unenlightened:

And just think that not too long ago O’Reilly appeared to a moderate when Beck was on Fox.

174 Dr Lizardo  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 11:36:21am

re: #172 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Come out of the closet, Judson Phillips.

175 Varek Raith  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 11:36:41am

re: #172 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Wowzers.

176 jaunte  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 11:37:58am

re: #175 Varek Raith

I don’t envy the Onion writers, trying to get stranger than reality.

177 Dr Lizardo  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 11:38:13am

re: #175 Varek Raith

Wowzers.

Yeah, it’s becoming increasingly obvious that a lot of these wingnut types are deeply - very deeply - repressed.

178 Justanotherhuman  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 11:39:00am

re: #172 jaunte

[Embedded content]

No, those penis cakes are ones I have seen at redneck bridal showers. Yes, I have actually witnessed this when I was roped into attending a bridal shower (which I despise).

Youtube Video

179 RadicalModerate  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 11:40:28am

CNN has put up a handy guide listing the other states who have similar legislation to the recently-vetoed anti-gay bill from Arizona.

It’s over in AZ, but not in KS, MO, MS, OH, OR, SD …

Arizona’s anti-gay bill veto unlikely to end ‘religious freedom’ movement

The buck may have stopped with Gov. Jan Brewer in Arizona on Wednesday, but the fight to pass such laws bannered as religious freedom issues is still on in quite a few other states.

“Right behind it are Missouri and Georgia,” said Jay Michaelson, a fellow at Political Research Associates, a progressive political think tank.

In addition to Missouri and Georgia, the following states have legislation pending:
Idaho
Mississippi
Ohio
Oregon
South Dakota

These states are also trying to get bills introduced, but are running into legislative roadblocks.
Colorado
Kansas (again)
Maine
Tennessee
Utah

180 Varek Raith  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 11:41:47am

Giant penis cakes for everyone!

181 blueraven  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 11:43:48am

re: #172 jaunte

[Embedded content]

from the article

Phillips then wonders if business owners will be forced to “create a cake for a homosexual wedding that has a giant phallic symbol on it,”

There has never been a bachelorette party with a dick cake…no, never ever.

google.com

182 Stanley Sea  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 11:44:33am

Here’s a beautiful gay cake.

Gay Cake

183 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 11:44:39am

You cannot begin to convince them that unless you offer hetero penis cakes then you cannot be forced to bake one for gays. These people are terrified of waking up with a cock in their mouths one morning…

184 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 11:44:54am

re: #179 RadicalModerate

I’ve seen some rumblings that PA’s existing “Religious Freedom” law (Which I think was cover for home-schooling) can arguably be extended by a business as a defense for discrimination. And I think there are already lawsuits challenging it in any case.

And I suspect one of the last things Gov. Corbett wants to see is an ALEC-clone of the Arizona bill come out of Harrisburg for him to sign or veto.

185 jaunte  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 11:44:59am

re: #180 Varek Raith

Giant penis cakes for everyone!

Why the Roman Empire fell.

186 Dr Lizardo  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 11:45:10am

re: #180 Varek Raith

Giant penis cakes for everyone!

Meanwhile, in Colombia, a neo-paramilitary group says it’s time for a little good old-fashioned “social cleansing”.

“This is the time for social cleansing,” reads the most recent pamphlet by Colombian neo-paramilitaries, which threatens to take the lives of the “communist, homosexual, immoral and rapist” schoolchildren of Bogota.

A neo-paramilitary group known as the “Aguilas Negras” has issued a “social cleansing” pamphlet to schoolchildren in Colombian capital, Bogota, Colombia’s human rights agency, ombudsman’s office, announced on Wednesday.

“For the schools of Ciudad Bolivar, Kenedi, [B]osa, [U]sme and others, fathers take care of you children, those who are crooked we’re going to straighten out by bullet or knife, either they’re with us or the c**** disappear,” the pamphlet reads, referring to the students of various localities in Bogota.

“This is the end of communist, homosexual students, immoral swines and rapists.”

The ombudsman’s office has called for authorities to put in place the necessary evacuation and security measures.

colombiareports.co

187 Pie-onist Overlord  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 11:46:36am

IT BEGINS

188 RadicalModerate  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 11:47:02am

Catholic League President and resident bigot Bill Donohue defends banning same-sex marriage by making a rather inane statement:

“Marriage is not about love”

Here’s a link to the video:

cnn.com

He really did say that.

189 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 11:48:11am

re: #188 RadicalModerate

Catholic League President and resident bigot Bill Donohue defends banning same-sex marriage by making a rather inane statement:

“Marriage is not about love”

Here’s a link to the video:

cnn.com

He really did say that.

How feudal of him.
///

190 Varek Raith  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 11:48:19am

re: #187 Pie-onist Overlord

IT BEGINS

[Embedded content]

This is a good thing.
He thinks it’s… something.

191 Lidane  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 11:49:03am

Still trying to explain to a dipshit on Twitter that he can’t demand that a Muslim bakery make him a bacon cake and have it be a matter of religious freedom.

I have already tried to explain that this is the equivalent of going to a Chevy dealership and demanding they sell him a brand new Ford. He countered with hurr durr they sell used Fords. Pointing out that this would be the same as walking into a bakery and demanding a used cake got me nowhere.

Why do I bother again?

192 jaunte  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 11:49:26am

re: #187 Pie-onist Overlord

“Oregon Ministry of Human Rights”?

Not seeing it.
search.oregonlive.com

193 Varek Raith  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 11:50:13am

re: #192 jaunte

“Oregon Ministry of Human Rights”?

Not seeing it.
search.oregonlive.com

Lol, why am I not surprised.
Nevermind on my 190.

194 Lidane  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 11:50:52am

re: #188 RadicalModerate

Catholic League President and resident bigot Bill Donohue defends banning same-sex marriage by making a rather inane statement:

“Marriage is not about love”

Here’s a link to the video:

cnn.com

He really did say that.

Well duh. Marriage is clearly about procreation. Gotta get the wifey pumping out kids every nine months like that Duggar woman.

Love is a side effect of marriage, apparently. At least that seems to be what he’s saying.

195 Pie-onist Overlord  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 11:51:39am

re: #192 jaunte

“Oregon Ministry of Human Rights”?

Not seeing it.
search.oregonlive.com

Matt Barber fell for a hoax?

My surprise, &c.

196 b.d.  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 11:51:40am

re: #187 Pie-onist Overlord

IT BEGINS

[Embedded content]

Deep into the article:

Although the “Cakes By Cupcakes” incident didn’t actually happen, something quite similar is happening across America

197 jaunte  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 11:51:55am

re: #193 Varek Raith

Maybe it’s a story somewhere other than the crazy sites, but I don’t see it.
google.com

198 Pie-onist Overlord  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 11:53:08am

Queue the exploding heads, &c.

199 jaunte  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 11:53:16am

re: #195 Pie-onist Overlord

Oregon Ministry of Human Rights sounded like a parody of what a rightwinger thinks a ‘liberal government’ agency would be called.

200 Decatur Deb  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 11:54:35am

re: #187 Pie-onist Overlord

IT BEGINS

[Embedded content]

At the end of the quoted article, it admits it’s just a RW fantasy.

201 jaunte  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 11:54:37am

“Tolerance Enforcement Commissioner” Brad Avakian

202 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 11:55:03am

re: #172 jaunte

[Embedded content]

heh…gays don’t have any proprietary claim on suggestive pastries.

I’ve been to a few bachelorette parties in my time where the cakes and finger foods (ahem) were anatomically correct…

203 jaunte  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 11:55:12am

re: #200 Decatur Deb

That will teach me to read down to the instructions.

204 Pie-onist Overlord  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 11:55:34am

re: #200 Decatur Deb

At the end of the quoted article, it admits it’s just a RW fantasy.

They will retweet it forever because IT TEH TROOF!!!!!!1!!!!

205 Decatur Deb  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 11:56:30am

re: #203 jaunte

That will teach me to read down to the instructions.

Messers Bottoms and Limpkowski were giveaways. Ya gotta read dirty.

206 EPR-radar  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 11:56:37am

re: #194 Lidane

Well duh. Marriage is clearly about procreation. Gotta get the wifey pumping out kids every nine months like that Duggar woman.

Love is a side effect of marriage, apparently. At least that seems to be what he’s saying.

Donohue probably thinks love is completely irrelevant to marriage because he views marriage as a transfer of property (the woman) from one owner (father) to another owner (husband).

Gay marriage is a threat to this model of marriage because there is no apparent transfer of property.

207 jaunte  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 11:57:09am

re: #205 Decatur Deb

Bruce BOTTOMS! HURRR!

208 RadicalModerate  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 11:57:40am

re: #187 Pie-onist Overlord

IT BEGINS

[Embedded content]

Disclaimer at the bottom of the article:

(First published Sept. 2013. The incident at “Cakes by Cupcakes” is made up and, in our politically correct culture where we ‘call evil good and good evil,’ it would never happen. It’s satire, but, in light of recent events in Arizona and across the country, it underscore’s the hypocrisy of the intolerant left with crystal clarity.)

This comes from a guy who fully supports the Ugandan anti-gay legislation, and has published multiple articles on his site that border on full-blown white nationalism.

Yet in his addled mind, it is the “left” who is intolerant.

209 bubba zanetti  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 11:58:07am

re: #191 Lidane

I have already tried to explain that this is the equivalent of going to a Chevy dealership and demanding they sell him a brand new Ford. He countered with hurr durr they sell used Fords. Pointing out that this would be the same as walking into a bakery and demanding a used cake got me nowhere.

It’s like going to Victoria’s Secret, demanding they sell you a ratchet wrench set, and when they don’t, claiming they’re biased against things men may want to buy.

( yes women buy ratchet wrenches too )

210 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 11:59:36am

re: #200 Decatur Deb

At the end of the quoted article, it admits it’s just a RW fantasy.

The names of the gay bakers, Bottoms and Limpkowski, might also have provided a clue.

211 Decatur Deb  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 12:00:18pm

re: #210 Shiplord Kirel

The names of the gay bakers, Bottoms and Limpkowski, might also have provided a clue.

#205

212 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 12:00:50pm

re: #211 Decatur Deb

#205

GMTA. So do we apparently.

213 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 12:01:26pm
214 Mattand  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 12:02:30pm

re: #184 Feline Fearless Leader

I’ve seen some rumblings that PA’s existing “Religious Freedom” law (Which I think was cover for home-schooling) can arguably be extended by a business as a defense for discrimination. And I think there are already lawsuits challenging it in any case.

And I suspect one of the last things Gov. Corbett wants to see is an ALEC-clone of the Arizona bill come out of Harrisburg for him to sign or veto.

Eh, he wants to sign one. He, like every other GOP governor, just wants something that’s more subtle and judicial-reivew proof.

215 Decatur Deb  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 12:03:27pm

Off to ensnare another innocent with the siren song of Obamacare. BBL

216 Lidane  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 12:03:56pm

SUPPORT THE TROOPS!

217 Pie-onist Overlord  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 12:06:04pm
218 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 12:06:07pm
219 Kragar  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 12:06:41pm
220 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 12:07:03pm

re: #214 Mattand

Eh, he wants to sign one. He, like every other GOP governor, just wants something that’s more subtle and judicial-reivew proof.

He might want it on his principles (assuming he has any.) But signing one will also pretty much polarize and energize the electorate further. I’m not sure if signing it will help his base as much as help the opposition to his re-election more.

221 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 12:13:01pm

Navy has a new thing.

222 Justanotherhuman  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 12:14:06pm

Another overdone interior with missing electronica.

223 blueraven  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 12:15:16pm

re: #214 Mattand

Eh, he wants to sign one. He, like every other GOP governor, just wants something that’s more subtle and judicial-reivew proof.

He may want to, but he is behind in polling now for re-election. Probably one of the most vulnerable R gov’s (along with Scott of FL) That is the last thing he needs right now.

realclearpolitics.com

224 Justanotherhuman  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 12:17:08pm

but the Crimea still does…

225 makeitstop  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 12:17:29pm

re: #42 darthstar

You know its been a brutal winter when the Rod Carew statue gets out a snow shovel.

My wife and I went to the Cradle of Aviation Museum here on LI a few weeks ago. They’ve got a life-sized astronaut statue outside, and they put a snow shovel in its hands.

I knew I should have taken a picture.

226 Skip Intro  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 12:18:17pm

re: #108 chadu

PRO-TIP: Old Spice keeps the white homo demons away.

I’m not sure what keeps away the black, brown, and ROYGBIV demons, though.

Someone drop some science on that, stat.

FYI, Pasture Manning is the most prominent - and only - endorser of Orly Taitz for CA A.G.

227 Kragar  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 12:19:48pm
228 Feline Fearless Leader  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 12:23:00pm

re: #221 Backwoods_Sleuth

Navy has a new thing.

Right here in Philly too. I should walk down there and take some pictures.

229 Kragar  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 12:23:44pm

Brought in a bowl of home made beef and barley soup for lunch.

“Man, I don’t know if I can eat all this.”

10 minutes later.

“WHERE DID MY SOUP GO?!”

230 Pie-onist Overlord  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 12:25:14pm

re: #229 Kragar

Brought in a bowl of home made beef and barley soup for lunch.

“Man, I don’t know if I can eat all this.”

10 minutes later.

“WHERE DID MY SOUP GO?!”

RECIPE.

231 Lidane  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 12:28:49pm

re: #209 bubba zanetti

It’s like going to Victoria’s Secret, demanding they sell you a ratchet wrench set, and when they don’t, claiming they’re biased against things men may want to buy.

( yes women buy ratchet wrenches too )

Oh, but didn’t you know? You can provide the ratchet wrenches to Victoria’s Secret so you can buy them! Or you can have Victoria’s Secret special order them for you!

Yes, this dipshit has tried both these arguements for why he should be able to demand a bacon cake from a Muslim bakery. WTF.

232 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 12:29:41pm

re: #224 Justanotherhuman

New head of Crimean regional govt says Yanukovych still president, will take instructions from him.

this is just the recipe for Crimean chaos that some people are really going to exploit…

233 Shiplord Kirel  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 12:30:13pm

re: #221 Backwoods_Sleuth

Navy has a new thing.

[Embedded content]

March 12th is the 100th anniversary of the commissioning of the USS Texas (BB-39), permanently berthed as a memorial and museum ship at the San Jacinto battlefield state park. This served 32 years as an active Navy battleship, including fire support at the D-Day landings, and was donated to the state in 1948. It has had its ups and downs since then, deteriorating badly from neglect until 1988 when it was towed to Galveston and dry-docked for an extensive repair and renovation that lasted 2 years and cost 20 million dollars. There are still some maintenance issues to be resolved, the state having learned the hard way that a battleship is an expensive piece of hardware even when it is sitting still doing nothing.

234 Kragar  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 12:30:43pm

re: #230 Pie-onist Overlord

RECIPE.

Leftover prime rib - ideally on the bone, if we don’t have a lot, I’ve added stew meat which I cook before adding to the soup

1 onion, chopped coarsely

1 bell pepper, chopped coarsely

2 turnips, cubed about 1/2inch

2 or 3 carrots, peeled and sliced (not too thin)

2 large garlic cloves, minced

celery if you have any, 2 stalks chopped rather thickly

parsley if you have any, about 2 Tbsp chopped

barley

beef bouillon -any beef broth and/or 1 or 2 pkgs of Au Jus mix

1 (28 oz.) can crushed tomatoes

water

Manischewitz Soup Mix - the dry one that has dried peas, etc in it - put aside the abs pasta thingy to add separately

In a large pot, put in the meat and bones (don’t cut the meat into bite sized pieces yet, use large chunks that are easy to fish out just as you start to add the barley; then let the beef cool a while, cut it up and return to pot), onion, bell pepper, turnips, garlic, carrots, celery and parsley if using, the can of tomatoes and 3 or more tomato cans of water, also, put in your beef bouillon. You just have to eyeball the amount of water.

Bring to a simmer, partially covered and simmer an hour or so.

Pull out the meat on the bone, shred it down and cuts into bites, then put it back into the soup.

Then add:

1/2 package barley, picked over and rinsed

the dry peas, beans etc from the soup mix.

Add more broth or water if it’s thick. Stir and continue to simmer Stir now and then and check to see it does not get too thick.

235 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 12:31:30pm

re: #231 Lidane

Oh, but didn’t you know? You can provide the ratchet wrenches to Victoria’s Secret so you can buy them! Or you can have Victoria’s Secret special order them for you!

Yes, this dipshit has tried both these arguements for why he should be able to demand a bacon cake from a Muslim bakery. WTF.

forget logical arguments, these people are convinced tqht Big Gay wants to (literally) shove its gristly, pulsing agenda down our throats and we are powerless to stop them withou laws preventing the forcing of throbbing gay gristle down hetero throats.

236 Kragar  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 12:32:53pm

The secret to good soups are turnips. Cooked properly, you would swear its a potato, but it doesn’t dissolve into starch like a potato would.

237 Lidane  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 12:36:10pm


Actually, El Rushbo has it backwards. There are bills like the AZ anti-gay bill because his side fears minorities.

238 wrenchwench  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 12:38:20pm

Limbaugh is in abject fear of his side losing elections by losing their base by showing any respect to minorities.

239 BigBadDemocrat  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 12:42:50pm

What does worry me is how these conservatives will deal with the power that is in the Pres. office now if and when they get the White House once more.
If they do manage to get some Louie Gomert type elected for sure the first thing the nut would do is void every executive order Pres. Obama has signed.
Worst come to worst at that time it just could spark real riots and big trouble for sure in the big cities. That kind of unrest internal could cause the dollar to have trouble, slow exports, cause labor unrest, even food shortages.

240 Kragar  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 12:44:08pm

SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY!

241 BigBadDemocrat  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 12:44:33pm

It is very important that Democrats keep control of the office of Pres./Commander in Chief.

242 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 12:45:35pm

re: #239 BigBadDemocrat

What does worry me is how these conservatives will deal with the power that is in the Pres. office now if and when they get the White House once more.
If they do manage to get some Louie Gomert type elected for sure the first thing the nut would do is void every executive order Pres. Obama has signed.
Worst come to worst at that time it just could spark real riots and big trouble for sure in the big cities. That kind of unrest internal could cause the dollar to have trouble, slow exports, cause labor unrest, even food shortages.

I do not worry about that too much, but these guys are and will remain toxic at state and local levels, at a national level, all they can do is obstruct and make sure that no administration succeeds in helping the American people because that might make their opponents look good.

243 dog philosopher  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 12:45:43pm

re: #234 Kragar

1 onion, chopped coarsely

i usually tell them some grossly obscene jokes

244 dog philosopher  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 12:48:03pm

re: #239 BigBadDemocrat

What does worry me is how these conservatives will deal with the power that is in the Pres. office now if and when they get the White House once more.
If they do manage to get some Louie Gomert type elected for sure the first thing the nut would do is void every executive order Pres. Obama has signed.
Worst come to worst at that time it just could spark real riots and big trouble for sure in the big cities. That kind of unrest internal could cause the dollar to have trouble, slow exports, cause labor unrest, even food shortages.

i might be possible for the gop to get somebody elected who will ‘repeal obamacare’, although probably just selected parts of it, but i doubt that it would be possible for them to get somebody elected who wouldn’t be considered a rino or ‘closet liberal’ by the moran party

245 Kragar  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 12:50:57pm

re: #244 dog philosopher

i might be possible for the gop to get somebody elected who will ‘repeal obamacare’, although probably just selected parts of it, but i doubt that it would be possible for them to get somebody elected who wouldn’t be considered a rino or ‘closet liberal’ by the moran party

Anyone who can currently make it thru a GOP primary doesn’t deserve to be President.

246 Justanotherhuman  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 12:51:23pm

re: #236 Kragar

The secret to good soups are turnips. Cooked properly, you would swear its a potato, but it doesn’t dissolve into starch like a potato would.

Making soup is fun. My favorite is a chunky chicken noodle, and I use a couple of chicken breasts, cooking first and making the broth (which should be strained), then chopping it up and adding chopped onion, carrots, celery along with a Mexican macaroni product that looks like skinny spaghetti broken up. If the broth needs it, I’ll add a can of broth or stock, but usually it doesn’t. Add salt, pepper and parsley and it’s great. Usually enough for several lunches. Even with the prep time, this can be ready in an hour.

247 BigBadDemocrat  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 12:52:00pm

For myself being in way deep Texas all we can do here is control the big city governments and a few metro county governments. Dallas County has turned blue but is circled by extreme conservatives of all types. It is possible they put together something and slip a nut job past the voters nation wide. Once in office and with the help of the Senate and House much trouble could come. That is a real problem for the future.

248 bubba zanetti  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 12:52:07pm

re: #231 Lidane

Oh, but didn’t you know? You can provide the ratchet wrenches to Victoria’s Secret so you can buy them! Or you can have Victoria’s Secret special order them for you!

Yes, this dipshit has tried both these arguements for why he should be able to demand a bacon cake from a Muslim bakery. WTF.

(Scene opens on Muslim bakery)
WINGNUT: “I demand that you sell me this bacon cake I just baked myself”
(WINGNUT slams $10 bill on counter)
(BAKER looks around confused, rings $10 on register)
BAKER: “Have a nice day, sir!”
(Montage of cake baking)
(Scene opens on different Muslim bakery)

249 Hercules Grytpype-Thynneghazi  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 12:53:14pm

re: #183 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

You cannot begin to convince them that unless you offer hetero penis cakes then you cannot be forced to bake one for gays. These people are terrified of waking up with a cock in their mouths one morning…

theonion.com

250 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 12:54:50pm

re: #245 Kragar

Anyone who can currently make it thru a GOP primary doesn’t deserve has no chance to be elected President.

251 Kragar  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 12:55:13pm

re: #246 Justanotherhuman

Making soup is fun. My favorite is a chunky chicken noodle, and I use a couple of chicken breasts, cooking first and making the broth (which should be strained), then chopping it up and adding chopped onion, carrots, celery along with a Mexican macaroni product that looks like skinny spaghetti broken up. If the broth needs it, I’ll add a can of broth or stock, but usually it doesn’t. Add salt, pepper and parsley and it’s great. Usually enough for several lunches. Even with the prep time, this can be ready in an hour.

I also make a sausage and bean soup using chicken stock sometimes

252 BigBadDemocrat  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 12:57:09pm

Only time to post is after my shift, now have to rush to catch the DART once more. Hope to get more posting time later. Just do not gomert things up.

253 blueraven  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 12:57:17pm

re: #246 Justanotherhuman

Making soup is fun. My favorite is a chunky chicken noodle, and I use a couple of chicken breasts, cooking first and making the broth (which should be strained), then chopping it up and adding chopped onion, carrots, celery along with a Mexican macaroni product that looks like skinny spaghetti broken up. If the broth needs it, I’ll add a can of broth or stock, but usually it doesn’t. Add salt, pepper and parsley and it’s great. Usually enough for several lunches. Even with the prep time, this can be ready in an hour.

Packaged as Fideo or Vermicelli.

254 chadu  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 12:58:41pm

re: #172 jaunte

I love the Dr. Steve Brule image that goes with that article:

Check It Out!

255 Justanotherhuman  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 1:01:12pm

re: #253 blueraven

Packaged as Fideo or Vermicelli.

Fideo, right. : )

256 chadu  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 1:01:40pm

re: #194 Lidane

Gotta get the wifey pumping out kids every nine months like that Duggar woman.

Next in Biblical Aerospace Engineering: Baby-based Propulsion Engine!

It could work!

/

257 ObserverArt  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 1:02:07pm

re: #135 Justanotherhuman

“Gannon said that he hoped to end needless deaths in Idaho like 15-year-old Arrian Jade Granden, who contracted food poisoning in June of 2012. The girl bled to death internally after her esophagus ruptured from three days of constant vomiting.

“Toddler Preston John Bowers died in March of 2011 at the age of 22 months from untreated bacterial pneumonia. That same month, 14-year-old Rockwell Alexander Sevy also died of treatable pneumonia.

“Gannon said in January, “”Medical treatment for physical harm to a child should supersede every other consideration,” even the religious beliefs of the parents.”

Those motherfucking “parents” should fucking be in fucking jail, fucking child abusers. Fuck their religious beliefs. They killed their own kids.

Isn’t it odd that ‘they’ want government to stop abortion to protect a life not yet born for religious reasons, but not to protect already born and living children from their overzealous religious parents that would cause death by ignoring doctors?

Yeah, just another example of hypocrisy in the whole protect life thing.

258 chadu  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 1:04:50pm

re: #214 Mattand

Eh, he wants to sign one. He, like every other GOP governor, just wants something that’s more subtle and judicial-reivew proof.

Eyes moving too fast.
MISREAD AS: “jew-proof”
FIRST THOUGHT: “Wow, bold statement of assitudity.”
SECOND THOUGHT: “Would probably stand by the misreading.”

259 chadu  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 1:05:54pm

re: #219 Kragar

I’m helping! I’m helping! I’m helping you! BAWK!
— Bizarro-Quinn, Sealab 2021

260 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 1:06:22pm

I wonder how much money he has sitting in Switzerland?

261 chadu  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 1:07:40pm

re: #227 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Gov. Perry the last best, hope to restore the Republic for peace.

Gov. Perry is nothing like Babylon 5.

262 chadu  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 1:08:26pm

The short, chilly road to obits beckons.

BBL, Lizards

263 chadu  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 1:09:42pm

re: #236 Kragar

The secret to good soups are turnips. Cooked properly, you would swear its a potato, but it doesn’t dissolve into starch like a potato would.

I like turnips and parsnips, but sometimes that’s a bug, not feature.

(leaving for reals nows; bbl)

264 Charles Johnson  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 1:10:23pm

Some interesting perspective on the new Guardian webcam chat story, from Pando of all places: GCHQ Reportedly Monitored Yahoo Cam Chats. Company Confirms Cam Traffic Not Secure Pre-2012 | PandoDaily.

265 Dr. Matt  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 1:15:16pm

I’m going to make a prediction that somewhere in the near future, the RWNJs are going to blame the Democrats for the Arizona Bill.

266 ObserverArt  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 1:15:21pm

re: #179 RadicalModerate

CNN has put up a handy guide listing the other states who have similar legislation to the recently-vetoed anti-gay bill from Arizona.

It’s over in AZ, but not in KS, MO, MS, OH, OR, SD …

In addition to Missouri and Georgia, the following states have legislation pending:
Idaho
Mississippi
Ohio
Oregon
South Dakota

These states are also trying to get bills introduced, but are running into legislative roadblocks.
Colorado
Kansas (again)
Maine
Tennessee
Utah

Ohio pulled their bill late yesterday. Heard about it on the morning news. I guess Kasich and crew figured out they didn’t need to look like the fools they already are.

Ohio bill on religion, gay rights is withdrawn

267 Kragar  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 1:16:54pm
268 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 1:17:27pm
269 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 1:20:03pm
270 NJDhockeyfan  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 1:22:43pm

Hugo Chavez has lost his head…


Sean Penn and Oliver Stone were seen sobbing.

271 piratedan  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 1:23:20pm

re: #268 Backwoods_Sleuth

Not surprised, like most things, the Vets get lip service from the R’s, they’d much rather buy a bomber than help a vet….

272 Targetpractice  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 1:23:46pm

re: #268 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

Keep in mind they were just bitching up a storm a couple months back, when they were trying to accuse Democrats of not caring about military veterans because Ayotte’s gotcha amendment to the UI extension bill got shot down by Reid.

273 Dr. Matt  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 1:23:47pm

re: #267 Kragar

Damn, what pipes! I can’t believe I never heard his early work with the Prophets. I miss him. Good stuff. Thanks for sharing.

274 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 1:27:57pm

re: #272 Targetpractice

Keep in mind they were just bitching up a storm a couple months back, when they were trying to accuse Democrats of not caring about military veterans because Ayotte’s gotcha amendment to the UI extension bill got shot down by Reid.

They are also the ones who constantly accuse Democrats of using veterans as a political prop…

275 Kragar  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 1:28:44pm

re: #273 Dr. Matt

Damn, what pipes! I can’t believe I never heard his early work with the Prophets. I miss him. Good stuff. Thanks for sharing.

The man could sing anything. One of the best voices in the last century. I especially enjoy his stuff from the late 60s and 70s.

Youtube Video

276 Kragar  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 1:32:39pm
277 Political Atheist  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 1:36:01pm

re: #266 ObserverArt

Have you seen this? I’m just now trying to take it in.

Christian Science Monitor.

Was vetoed Arizona bill misrepresented? What constitutional scholars say.

“The real problem with the Kansas bill is not that it proposes a specific rule, but that it proposes a very one-sided and unfair rule,” the scholars said.

“We agree with Congress and a clear majority of states that government should not burden a person’s religious practice without a compelling interest,” they said in the letter. “But sometimes government does have compelling interests, and then religious practices must be burdened. The Arizona bill recognizes that; the Kansas bill does not.”

The scholars added: “People claiming that the two bills are similar are simply smearing the Arizona bill, disregarding the long and successful history of state and federal RFRAs.”

Among the 11 signers of the letter are Stanford law professor and former appeals court Judge Michael McConnell, Virginia law school professor Douglas Laycock, Harvard law professor Mary Ann Glendon, and Notre Dame law professor Richard Garnett.

278 William Barnett-Lewis  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 1:37:47pm

re: #234 Kragar

Manischewitz Soup Mix - the dry one that has dried peas, etc in it - put aside the abs pasta thingy to add separately

Very similar to how I make it. I really love using that split pea soup mix and and sometimes also add a packet of their minestrone mix as well. Gives a touch to the soup that I just can’t come close to without it.

279 Eventual Carrion  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 1:39:15pm

re: #169 EPR-radar

Kids dying needlessly because of their parent’s stupid ideas about faith healing, followed by GOP obstruction of the obvious remedy because “religious freedom”, is enough to run anyone out of patience.

So to use the anti abortion peoples idea of offering a ride to an abortion and instead take them to a church or something. Offer the parents to take the kids to church so they can be close to gods healing power, but instead take them to the ER.

280 Kragar  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 1:39:16pm

re: #278 William Barnett-Lewis

Very similar to how I make it. I really love using that split pea soup mix and and sometimes also add a packet of their minestrone mix as well. Gives a touch to the soup that I just can’t come close to without it.

We use the Vegetable soup one.

281 Justanotherhuman  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 1:50:54pm
282 ObserverArt  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 1:57:01pm

re: #277 Political Atheist

Have you seen this? I’m just now trying to take it in.

Christian Science Monitor.

I read that. All I can say is: how sad that we have to legislate what really should just be decency and courtesy. And this is to cover ‘religion.’ Maybe that is a simplistic view, but damn sometimes humans just fuck shit all up.

To me, even basic religion should teach it just plain won’t hurt you to serve a person that doesn’t buy all aspects of your religion. Remember…your religion. What gay is asking you to be gay so that it would be against your religion? Baking a cake isn’t going to make you gay or harm your religious stance. Baking a cake is not a sin. It simply comes down to being judgmental and vindictive with the judgement. What really is the harm other than perception by dogma or just plain hate? Can’t people just be human and keep the religion to themselves? You can be what you want to be after you flip that closed sign on your bakery that evening. The gays will go home and keep to themselves, you can too.

283 Slap  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 1:57:30pm

re: #183 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

You cannot begin to convince them that unless you offer hetero penis cakes then you cannot be forced to bake one for gays. These people are terrified of >ENJOYING< waking up with a cock in their mouths one morning…

Just a teeny adjustment.

284 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 1:59:45pm

re: #277 Political Atheist

Have you seen this? I’m just now trying to take it in.

Christian Science Monitor.

I just read the CS article and found a PDF copy of SB 1062.

From my personal perspective, what I found most alarming in the amendment was this particular change under the section for “Definitions”:

19 5. “Person” includes a religious assembly or institution ANY
20 INDIVIDUAL, ASSOCIATION, PARTNERSHIP, CORPORATION, CHURCH, RELIGIOUS ASSEMBLY
21 OR INSTITUTION, ESTATE, TRUST, FOUNDATION OR OTHER LEGAL ENTITY.

Talk about opening a can of worms!

285 Killgore Trout  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 2:03:03pm

re: #270 NJDhockeyfan

Hugo Chavez has lost his head…

[Embedded content]


Sean Penn and Oliver Stone were seen sobbing.

lol

286 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 2:03:42pm

re: #277 Political Atheist

Was vetoed Arizona bill misrepresented?

No, not really. The fact that the Kansas law is that much worse doesn’t change things at all. The existing laws exempts churches and religious orgs only. 1062 would exempt anybody, any business that claims a religious basis for their discrimination. So what if it carves out a space for compelling state interests, that just leads to a ton of bullshit litigation. Do we really want local state civil juries trying trying to figure out the compelling government interest difference between a muslim restauranteur’s objection serving gays vs. blind people with service dogs?

287 Killgore Trout  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 2:04:53pm

re: #277 Political Atheist

Have you seen this? I’m just now trying to take it in.

Christian Science Monitor.

That’s actually a very interesting article. I think this is another case where the cable news/internet rhetoric misses the more interesting real world issues.

288 CuriousLurker  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 2:10:49pm

re: #282 ObserverArt

I read that. All I can say is: how sad that we have to legislate what really should just be decency and courtesy. And this is to cover ‘religion.’ Maybe that is a simplistic view, but damn sometimes humans just fuck shit all up.

To me, even basic religion should teach it just plain won’t hurt you to serve a person that doesn’t buy all aspects of your religion. Remember…your religion. What gay is asking you to be gay so that it would be against your religion? Baking a cake isn’t going to make you gay or harm your religious stance. Baking a cake is not a sin. It simply comes down to being judgmental and vindictive with the judgement. What really is the harm other than perception by dogma or just plain hate? Can’t people just be human and keep the religion to themselves? You can be what you want to be after you flip that closed sign on your bakery that evening. The gays will go home and keep to themselves, you can too.

This. Personal example: Tattoos are forbidden in Islam. It’s considered a sin for a person to get a tattoo, to give one, or to participate in tattooing in any way (for example to create a drawing that you know will be used for one). That said, if I own a bakery and a guy/gal walks in who’s tattooed from head to toe it’s not forbidden to serve him/her, nor (AFAIK) would it be some sort of sin to bake a cake that’s decorated with a replica of a tattoo that person has.

It’s pretty simple: My religion says I shouldn’t participate in certain things. What you choose to participate in or avoid is up to you and your religion/conscience.

I really can’t fathom why people are having such a hard time with that concept.

289 Skip Intro  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 2:33:38pm

re: #286 goddamnedfrank

No, not really. The fact that the Kansas law is that much worse doesn’t change things at all. The existing laws exempts churches and religious orgs only. 1062 would exempt anybody, any business that claims a religious basis for their discrimination. So what if it carves out a space for compelling state interests, that just leads to a ton of bullshit litigation. Do we really want local state civil juries trying trying to figure out the compelling government interest difference between a muslim restauranteur’s objection serving gays vs. blind people with service dogs?

Wrong religion? Sorry, you’re not welcome here.

Wrong sect of the right religion? Sorry, you’re not welcome here.

Wrong skin color? Sorry, my religion says you’ve been damned by God and you’re not welcome here.

Need medical attention that violates something in the provider’s religion? Sorry, drop dead.

The idiots - and I don’t use that term lightly - who are proposing and passing these abominable bills have no idea of the consequences of what they’re trying to make law.

290 Political Atheist  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 2:36:17pm

re: #286 goddamnedfrank

No, not really. The fact that the Kansas law is that much worse doesn’t change things at all. The existing laws exempts churches and religious orgs only. 1062 would exempt anybody, any business that claims a religious basis for their discrimination. So what if it carves out a space for compelling state interests, that just leads to a ton of bullshit litigation. Do we really want local state civil juries trying trying to figure out the compelling government interest difference between a muslim restauranteur’s objection serving gays vs. blind people with service dogs?

So you don’r see much worthwhile difference between what the media by and large told us about this legislation and what actual legal experts had to say it means?

I don’t see how the public can have sensible opinions on a matter when / if perception over rides reality. I don’t want to live in strawman city.

291 wrenchwench  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 2:55:52pm

re: #290 Political Atheist

So you don’r see much worthwhile difference between what the media by and large told us about this legislation and what actual legal experts had to say it means?

I don’t see how the public can have sensible opinions on a matter when / if perception over rides reality. I don’t want to live in strawman city.

Actual legal experts are humans with opinions that often don’t count for any more than your opinion or mine. That article only named three of the eleven signers of the letter. I’d like to know who the others are because they are all going on my ‘do not trust’ list. These are all from Wikipedia:

Mary Ann Glendon:

is the Learned Hand Professor of Law at Harvard Law School and a former United States Ambassador to the Holy See (February 2008 - January 2009). She teaches and writes on bioethics, comparative constitutional law, property, and human rights in international law. She is pro-life and “writes forcefully against the expansion of abortion rights.”[1]

She has an agenda directly counter to mine.

Michael McConnell:

In 1996, McConnell signed a statement supporting a constitutional amendment to ban abortion, which read, “Abortion kills 1.5 million innocent human beings in America every year…We believe that the abortion license is a critical factor in America’s virtue deficit.”[7]

He has an agenda directly counter to mine.

Douglas Laycock:

Laycock was one of the people who testified in favor of the Religious Liberty Protection Act of 1998.[3]

He has an agenda to uphold the thing that article was about.

He is one of three co-editors of the recently released book Same Sex Marriage and Religious Liberty. His own chapter in that volume argues that it is desirable, and usually possible, to protect the liberty of same-sex couples and also protect the liberty of religious conservatives who do not wish to support or facilitate same-sex marriages.[10]

I haven’t read the book, don’t know what his agenda is there, but his opinion is not that of a disinterested expert. He has a position to defend.

The opinions of ‘actual legal experts’ should not be given more weight than those of the people who would be affected by their opinions.

292 Killgore Trout  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 2:57:12pm

re: #290 Political Atheist

So you don’r see much worthwhile difference between what the media by and large told us about this legislation and what actual legal experts had to say it means?

I don’t see how the public can have sensible opinions on a matter when / if perception over rides reality. I don’t want to live in strawman city.

The misrepresentation is harmful because there are real problems elsewhere….

The original Religious Freedom Restoration Act, far from a hate-inspired antigay measure, sailed through the US House of Representatives on a voice vote and passed the US Senate 97 to 3 before being signed into law by then-President Bill Clinton in 1993.

The federal government and 18 states have Religious Freedom Restoration Acts on their books. More than 12 other states have interpreted their state constitutions to provide similar protections to religious individuals.
….
“To be clear: SB 1062 does not say that businesses can discriminate for religious reasons,” the scholars said in their letter.

The proposed amendments provided a defense for a business owner or allowed a business owner to file a lawsuit to enforce RFRA protection. But it is ultimately up to the Arizona courts to decide if such protection is warranted or not, they said.

The scholars said the Arizona statute was substantially different than a measure under consideration in Kansas that has also sparked protests and significant media attention. Rather than a broadly applicable standard, the Kansas bill requires that in any confrontation between gay rights and religious objections, the religious objector would always win.

“The real problem with the Kansas bill is not that it proposes a specific rule, but that it proposes a very one-sided and unfair rule,” the scholars said.

Critics of these bills can discredit themselves by misrepresenting the AZ law and when it comes to raising the alarm about the much more problematic Kansas law people might not pay attention anymore.

293 Backwoods_Sleuth  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 3:29:49pm

re: #292 Killgore Trout

The misrepresentation is harmful because there are real problems elsewhere….

Critics of these bills can discredit themselves by misrepresenting the AZ law and when it comes to raising the alarm about the much more problematic Kansas law people might not pay attention anymore.

“To be clear: SB 1062 does not say that businesses can discriminate for religious reasons,” the scholars said in their letter.

Actually, SB 1062 indeed does just that.
See my comment at littlegreenfootballs.com

294 EPR-radar  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 3:37:04pm

re: #291 wrenchwench

Very true. Before I’m going to take the opinion of a group of legal experts remotely seriously on a topic like this, I’ll need to confirm a reasonable balance of political positions among the group.

There is no such thing as objective legal analysis for this kind of politics/law intersection.

295 Political Atheist  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 3:38:27pm

re: #291 wrenchwench

You assert they have a biased view on this bill given the pro life positions. That is an assumption right?

How are we to dismiss legal expertise in legal matters out of hand? Shall we ignore doctors advice about drugs?

When we need to learn something about the law, even the police turn to legal experts. The ACLU has a stable of such. They do some great work with their expertise. When self defense classes undertake the lessons of allowable legal force to be used, an expert, like a prosecutor or DA (always lawyers right?) are brought in. So I can’t really just dismiss them out of hand as no better than you or I-Less trained and experienced in that law.

For a legal opinion, one would not be wise to listen too carefully to those who do not understand law. If a person who would become impacted becomes an expert on that law, that’s legit and similar to many including myself in use of force laws. (Trained by a prosecutor and defense atty.)

But absent the legal study it’s a personal opinion not a legal one. Even strong personal opinions are to be taken with care until the law is better studied by legal experts. After all what other kind of expert has merit in a legal question?

Our President is respected with his constitutional law scholar status, so his opinion on constitutional matters has more weight than that of GWB, and those affected by say commerce clause rulings against them.

Do you not think it possible the laws impact was seized upon by advocates beyond it’s actual language? We have seen this happen before frequently. So please forgive my reluctance to instantly dismiss the contention.

296 Political Atheist  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 3:56:35pm

re: #294 EPR-radar

Very true. Before I’m going to take the opinion of a group of legal experts remotely seriously on a topic like this, I’ll need to confirm a reasonable balance of political positions among the group.

There is no such thing as objective legal analysis for this kind of politics/law intersection.

Youtube Video

So, who can we turn to? For instance, does the video discussion have no value in terms of understanding SCOTUS? Video just to show one of the people who signed the letter, for an example of his position and demeanor.

297 Political Atheist  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 3:58:48pm

re: #293 Backwoods_Sleuth

Actually, SB 1062 indeed does just that.
See my comment at littlegreenfootballs.com

Where does it say that? Explicit or inferred?

298 EPR-radar  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 4:08:38pm

re: #296 Political Atheist

[Embedded content]

So, who can we turn to? For instance, does the video discussion have no value in terms of understanding SCOTUS? Video just to show one of the people who signed the letter, for an example of his position and demeanor.

Note that my suggestion was not “to hell with the legal experts”. I was simply pointing out that on these kinds of con-law issues, politics is as much a factor as legal analysis. The commenter in the video basically made the same point when talking about the large number of critical 5-4 and 6-3 supreme court decisions.

299 wrenchwench  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 4:39:19pm

re: #295 Political Atheist

You assert they have a biased view on this bill given the pro life positions. That is an assumption right?

No, I don’t. I state that they have agendas. Only one of those agendas relates to the religious freedom issue. I state that they are human. This means they have biases. Everyone does. I note now that two of the three clearly have conservative, anti-women biases (yes, one of them is a woman.)

How are we to dismiss legal expertise in legal matters out of hand? Shall we ignore doctors advice about drugs?

I don’t dismiss them out of hand. I learn what I can about them, then I form an opinion and tell it to you. I dismiss the concept that anybody’s expertise in anything gives their opinion more weight in a discussion of opinions. Signing that letter had absolutely no weight in a court of law.

When we need to learn something about the law, even the police turn to legal experts. The ACLU has a stable of such. They do some great work with their expertise. When self defense classes undertake the lessons of allowable legal force to be used, an expert, like a prosecutor or DA (always lawyers right?) are brought in. So I can’t really just dismiss them out of hand as no better than you or I-Less trained and experienced in that law.

For a legal opinion, one would not be wise to listen too carefully to those who do not understand law. If a person who would become impacted becomes an expert on that law, that’s legit and similar to many including myself in use of force laws. (Trained by a prosecutor and defense atty.)

But absent the legal study it’s a personal opinion not a legal one. Even strong personal opinions are to be taken with care until the law is better studied by legal experts. After all what other kind of expert has merit in a legal question?

Nobody needs to know anything about the law to form an opinion on whether gay people should be allowed to get married. They do when it comes time to change or interpret the current laws. An opinion on what the law is is not the same as an opinion on what the law should be.

Our President is respected with his constitutional law scholar status, so his opinion on constitutional matters has more weight than that of GWB, and those affected by say commerce clause rulings against them.

I would disagree with this. Obama is in the executive branch. His status as a scholar may make him more informed about constitutional matters, but he’s in the wrong branch for his opinion to carry weight. He may sound smarter than Bush, though.

Do you not think it possible the laws impact was seized upon by advocates beyond it’s actual language? We have seen this happen before frequently. So please forgive my reluctance to instantly dismiss the contention.

Don’t dismiss anything you don’t want to. I know whose opinions I trust and give weight to, and I will disagree with (not dismiss) anyone, regardless of their ‘expertise’. I will look foolish if I misrepresent the law by doing that, but I will have to be convinced by an argument, not by an appeal to authority, in this case ‘legal expertise’.

300 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 5:04:20pm

re: #290 Political Atheist

So you don’r see much worthwhile difference between what the media by and large told us about this legislation and what actual legal experts had to say it means?

Give me a specific example of the media misinformation? I see you and these pro-life biased experts repeating a raw, baseless assertion then shifting to a completely irrelevant comparison with the Kansas law. As far as I can tell these legal experts all have a similar pro-life cognitive bias and that this could easily why their analysis runs counter to a common sense reading of the legislation.

re: #297 Political Atheist

Actually, SB 1062 indeed does just that.
See my comment at littlegreenfootballs.com

Where does it say that? Explicit or inferred?

Explicit.

1. “Demonstrates” means meets the burdens of going forward with the
󿿅 6
7 evidence and of persuasion.
8 2. “Exercise of religion” means the PRACTICE OR OBSERVANCE OF
9 RELIGION, INCLUDING THE ability to act or refusal to act in a manner
10 substantially motivated by a religious belief, whether or not the exercise is
11 compulsory or central to a larger system of religious belief.
12 3. “Government” includes this state and any agency or political
13 subdivision of this state.
14 4. “Nonreligious assembly or institution” includes all membership
15 organizations, theaters, cultural centers, dance halls, fraternal orders,
16 amphitheaters and places of public assembly regardless of size that a
17 government or political subdivision allows to meet in a zoning district by
18 code or ordinance or by practice.
19 5. “Person” includes a religious assembly or institution ANY
20 INDIVIDUAL, ASSOCIATION, PARTNERSHIP, CORPORATION, CHURCH, RELIGIOUS ASSEMBLY
21 OR INSTITUTION, ESTATE, TRUST, FOUNDATION OR OTHER LEGAL ENTITY.

22 6. “Political subdivision” includes any county, city, including a
23 charter city, town, school district, municipal corporation or special
24 district, any board, commission or agency of a county, city, including a
25 charter city, town, school district, municipal corporation or special
26 district or any other local public agency.
27 7. “Religion-neutral zoning standards”:
28 (a) Means numerically definable standards such as maximum occupancy
29 codes, height restrictions, setbacks, fire codes, parking space requirements,
󿿃0 sewer
31
32
33
capacity limitations and traffic congestion limitations.
(b) Does not include:
(i) Synergy with uses that a government holds as more desirable. (ii) The ability to raise tax revenues.
8. “Suitable alternate property” means a financially feasible property
34
35 considering the person’s revenue sources and other financial obligations with
36 respect to the person’s exercise of religion and with relation to spending
37 that is in the same zoning district or in a contiguous area that the person
38 finds acceptable for conducting the person’s religious mission and that is
39 large enough to fully accommodate the current and projected seating capacity
40 requirements of the person in a manner that the person deems suitable for the
41 person’s religious mission.
42 9. “Unreasonable burden” means that a person is prevented from using
43 the person’s property in a manner that the person finds satisfactory to
44 fulfill the person’s religious mission.

Do the goddamned math and it adds up to any “individual, association, partnership, corporation … or institution, estate, trust, foundation or other legal entity” being free to “refuse to act” in any way that would “unreasonably burden” their religious sensibilities. Section 1 Subsection 9 defines that unreasonable burden solely according to the religious adherent’s own satisfaction.

Then go to Section 2 - D:

D. A person whose religious exercise is burdened in violation of this section may assert that violation as a claim or defense in a judicial proceeding, and obtain appropriate relief against a government REGARDLESS OF WHETHER THE GOVERNMENT IS A PARTY TO THE PROCEEDING. THE PERSON ASSERTING SUCH A CLAIM OR DEFENSE MAY OBTAIN APPROPRIATE RELIEF. A party who prevails in any action to enforce this article against a government shall recover attorney fees and costs.

So any party subject to such religiously based discrimination is automatically on the hook to pay the defendant’s legal costs if the court finds an affirmative defense under this law. And since the law is based on the inherently subjective standard of what the defendant “finds satisfactory to fulfill [their] religious mission,” the law effectively legalizes most forms of discrimination by private businesses as long as an assertion is made that the discrimination is rooted in a sincere religious practice / belief.

301 Political Atheist  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 5:11:29pm

re: #300 goddamnedfrank

Okay that’s good food for thought.

302 goddamnedfrank  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 5:18:21pm

By the way, here’s the letter in question.

Read it and then tell me that the reporting on it isn’t just one big disingenuous pile. There’s a reason the author chose not to provide a link to it, this is probably the most disappointing write up published by the CSM that I’ve ever read. The fact that it’s hosted on azpolicy.com com is further telling, since that’s the org that cooked up the legislation itself.

Total bait and switch.

303 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 5:34:33pm

re: #302 goddamnedfrank

The CS monitor is normally better than this kind of shit. It’s been one of the last bastions of journalism.

304 wrenchwench  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 5:41:37pm

re: #302 goddamnedfrank

By the way, here’s the letter in question.

Read it and then tell me that the reporting on it isn’t just one big disingenuous pile. There’s a reason the author chose not to provide a link to it, this is probably the most disappointing write up published by the CSM that I’ve ever read. The fact that it’s hosted on azpolicy.com com is further telling, since that’s the org that cooked up the legislation itself.

Total bait and switch.

Thanks for posting that.

The agenda is clear: they want(ed) Brewer to sign the bill because they think people deserve the right to defend themselves against discrimination suits by invoking their religious beliefs. The letter makes it look like they are applying for the job of writing the bill (and Kansas’s bill) better next time.

I believe that claiming a burden is imposed on your religious practice when your business has a customer who does things (elsewhere, totally unrelated to your business) you don’t like is a complete raft of horseshit.

Unless your religion is to bake cakes for the glory of god, your religion has nothing to do with who you bake cakes for.

These legal experts are using their claim of authority to influence the political process towards their personal choice of ends. They want to be able to use the law to discriminate, and to enable others to do likewise. They are bigots. Educated bigots. Bigots with law degrees. Contemptible, like all bigots.

305 chadu  Thu, Feb 27, 2014 7:04:21pm

re: #249 Hercules Grytpype-Thynneghazi

Always a classic!


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