Watch Live: President Obama’s Statement on Events in Ukraine

Politics • Views: 23,836

[Live statement concluded… the discussion continues in our comments.]

UPDATE at 2/28/14 3:05:23 pm

A transcript of the President’s remarks:

STATEMENT BY THE PRESIDENT ON UKRAINE

James S. Brady Press Briefing Room
5:05 P.M. EST

THE PRESIDENT: Good afternoon, everybody.

Over the last several days, the United States has been responding to events as they unfold in Ukraine. Throughout this crisis, we have been very clear about one fundamental principle: The Ukrainian people deserve the opportunity to determine their own future. Together with our European allies, we have urged an end to the violence and encouraged Ukrainians to pursue a course in which they stabilize their country, forge a broad-based government and move to elections this spring.

I also spoke several days ago with President Putin, and my administration has been in daily communication with Russian officials, and we’ve made clear that they can be part of an international community’s effort to support the stability and success of a united Ukraine going forward, which is not only in the interest of The people of Ukraine and the international community, but also in Russia’s interest.

However, we are now deeply concerned by reports of military movements taken by the Russian Federation inside of Ukraine. Russia has a historic relationship with Ukraine, including cultural and economic ties, and a military facility in Crimea, but any violation of Ukraine’s sovereignty and territorial integrity would be deeply destabilizing, which is not in the interest of Ukraine, Russia, or Europe.

It would represent a profound interference in matters that must be determined by the Ukrainian people. It would be a clear violence of Russia’s commitment to respect the independence and sovereignty and borders of Ukraine, and of international laws. And just days after the world came to Russia for the Olympic Games, it would invite the condemnation of nations around the world. And indeed, the United States will stand with the international community in affirming that there will be costs for any military intervention in Ukraine.

The events of the past several months remind us of how difficult democracy can be in a country with deep divisions. But the Ukrainian people have also reminded us that human beings have a universal right to determine their own future.

Right now, the situation remains very fluid. Vice President Biden just spoke with Prime Minister — the Prime Minister of Ukraine to assure him that in this difficult moment the United States supports his government’s efforts and stands for the sovereignty, territorial integrity and democratic future of Ukraine. I also commend the Ukrainian government’s restraint and its commitment to uphold its international obligations.

We will continue to coordinate closely with our European allies. We will continue to communicate directly with the Russian government. And we will continue to keep all of you in the press corps and the American people informed as events develop.

Thanks very much.

END 5:09 P.M. EST

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431 comments
1 Amory Blaine  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 1:57:29pm

I’m always early. Never know where to sit.

2 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 1:58:22pm
3 Bubblehead II  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 1:59:48pm

re: #1 Amory Blaine

I’m always early. Never know where to sit.

I always try for a spot closest to the door. That way I don’t have to wait for the crowd to clear after the show.

4 chadu  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 1:59:49pm

(from downstairs)

Kinda want to start a meme that gay guys are using upside-down Confederate flags to signal “cruising” status, and see if it catches on.

5 Lidane  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:00:18pm
6 Lidane  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:01:46pm
7 Charles Johnson  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:02:20pm
8 Killgore Trout  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:04:47pm

re: #1 Amory Blaine

I’m always early. Never know where to sit.

Obama’s always late to these things, you’ve got another 10-15 minutes to figure it out

9 Kragar  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:04:56pm

Looking at the map for the region affected, I’d have to say the proper response would be “Dude, that is pretty fucked up”, make note that the Russians are a bunch of corrupt assholes and helping the rest of the Ukraine get out from under them.

10 GeneJockey  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:05:05pm

re: #7 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

More like A Chorus Line.

11 Lidane  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:05:35pm
12 Killgore Trout  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:05:50pm

He’s early!

13 Aqua Obama  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:06:00pm

Who is this dude

14 Charles Johnson  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:06:35pm

YouTube video’s about 30 seconds behind the live TV feed.

15 GeneJockey  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:06:44pm

re: #1 Amory Blaine

I’m always early. Never know where to sit.

So you pretend you have to go to the bathroom and sneak out for a few minutes till the cool kids take their seats, then sit near enough that people think you’re with them, but not close enough that they object to your presence.

16 b.d.  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:06:51pm

Obama - The Ukraine

Aarrrrgghhh!!!!!

17 Decatur Deb  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:07:12pm

re: #6 Lidane

[Embedded content]

The chyron guy is Yugoslavian.

18 Killgore Trout  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:07:45pm

There will be condemnations.

19 GeneJockey  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:08:03pm

re: #17 Decatur Deb

The chyron guy is Yugoslavian.

Or maybe Austro-Hungarian.

20 Pie-onist Overlord  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:08:07pm

derp

21 dog philosopher  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:08:44pm

deeply destabilizing

for the benefit of any baggers who might be listening, that would mean something bad

22 Ian G.  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:09:19pm

re: #19 GeneJockey

Or maybe Austro-Hungarian.

Beat me to it.

I like the 1914 map of Eastern Europe. So many fewer countries to memorize.

upload.wikimedia.org

23 Decatur Deb  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:09:25pm

re: #19 GeneJockey

Or maybe Austro-Hungarian.

From Bosnia-Herzegovina specifically.

24 Dr Lizardo  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:09:40pm

re: #6 Lidane

[Embedded content]

Shit, that’s news to me and I live here. Must’ve missed something…..

25 GeneJockey  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:09:47pm

re: #20 Pie-onist Overlord

derp

[Embedded content]

It is as I predicted - they’re thanking their lucky stars it’s not their guy in the hot seat, because they know there’s not anything we can or should do about this.

26 Killgore Trout  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:10:04pm

Well, at least he didn’t say “Fuck the EU”

27 Pie-onist Overlord  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:10:06pm

what an asshole

28 Ian G.  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:10:28pm

re: #20 Pie-onist Overlord

He’s going to do the same thing Bush did about Russia’s invasion of Georgia in 2008.

29 dog philosopher  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:10:38pm

i think it might be possible for a president to make a less informative statement on an alarming international crisis

30 Lidane  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:11:08pm

re: #27 Pie-onist Overlord

WTF does he expect? Does he want us to invade Crimea to kick out the Russians?

31 Kragar  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:11:18pm
32 Charles Johnson  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:11:34pm

That was concise.

33 jaunte  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:11:35pm

re: #27 Pie-onist Overlord

I stand ready to drop Todd Starnes over Sevastopol.

34 Gus  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:11:39pm
35 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:11:42pm

re: #4 chadu

(from downstairs)

Kinda want to start a meme that gay guys are using upside-down Confederate flags to signal “cruising” status, and see if it catches on.

[Embedded image]

I thought maybe you’d say it should be turned so it’s long side was on the flag staff…

36 dog philosopher  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:11:51pm

re: #28 Ian G.

He’s going to do the same thing Bush did about Russia’s invasion of Georgia in 2008.

but the wingnut’s will say that that was different, using the compelling logic of the statement “but that was different”

37 Ian G.  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:12:13pm

re: #30 Lidane

WTF does he expect? Does he want us to invade Crimea to kick out the Russians?

No, he just wants to spew venom at the President. That’s all any of these people ever want to do.

38 Kragar  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:12:13pm

re: #30 Lidane

WTF does he expect? Does he want us to invade Crimea to kick out the Russians?

“Oh, we’re on the road to Crimea…”

39 Pie-onist Overlord  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:12:28pm

HURR HURR OBAMA’S SUCH A PUSSY!!!!!! REMEMBER REAGAN SAID TEH BOMBING BEGINS IN 5 MINUTES!!!! WHAT A REAL MAN!!!!!!!!

40 Gus  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:12:47pm
41 Lidane  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:12:48pm
42 Charles Johnson  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:13:08pm
43 b.d.  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:13:10pm

Time for the 2nd Amendment TeaBagger Brigade to report to the Crimean peninsula.

44 Killgore Trout  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:13:11pm

re: #29 dog philosopher

i think it might be possible for a president to make a less informative statement on an alarming international crisis

“Some things have happened. We saw the things and will continue to look at the things. We’ll let you know what happens later after we watch the things some more.”

45 GeneJockey  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:13:35pm

re: #4 chadu

(from downstairs)

Kinda want to start a meme that gay guys are using upside-down Confederate flags to signal “cruising” status, and see if it catches on.

[Embedded image]

I noticed in the titles for the Netflix version of “House of Cards” that part of the logo is an upside down US flag.

I asked my wife whether she thought they did the same thing for the UK version. She glared at me mildly.

46 Decatur Deb  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:13:39pm

re: #33 jaunte

I stand ready to drop Todd Starnes over Sevastopol.

If there is a war, Ted Nugent can redeem himself. And Cheney, too.

47 Gus  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:13:40pm

Chickenhawks in 3, 2, 1…

48 Charles Johnson  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:14:18pm

re: #40 Gus

He’s right on that. But the wingnut crowd is already screaming for MOAR WAR!

49 The War TARDIS  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:14:21pm

re: #6 Lidane

I remember seeing a comment that was among the leaked cables during the US Diplomatic Cable Leaks from Prince Andrew in the UK, that seems to be completely valid here.

The Duke of York was noted as saying “The Americans don’t understand geography. Never have. In the UK, we have the best geography teachers in the world!”

50 b.d.  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:14:24pm

NUKE TEH COMMIES!!!!

51 Decatur Deb  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:14:27pm

re: #38 Kragar

“Oh, we’re on the road to Crimea…”

Loved Hope and Lamour in that!!

52 chadu  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:15:34pm

re: #19 GeneJockey

Or maybe Austro-Hungarian.

A reading from the book of Saint Edward of Izzard:

So in Europe, we had empires. Everyone had them - France and Spain and Britain and Turkey! The Ottoman Empire, full of furniture for some reason. And the Austro-Hungarian Empire, famous for fuck all! Yes, all they did was slowly collapse like a flan in a cupboard.

And the German empire, very organized, they’d always build an empire, “ein, zwei, ein, zwei, “build an empire, very Prussian, and then they’d celebrate with a World War! And then lose the whole fucking empire by the end of the war. In the 30s, Hitler, Czechoslovakia, Poland, France, World War II… the Russian front, not a good idea…! Hitler never played “Risk” when he was a kid…! ‘Cause, you know, playing “Risk,” you could never hold on to Asia. That Asian-Eastern European area, you could never hold it, could you? Seven extra men at the beginning of every go, but you couldn’t fucking hold it! Australasia, that was the one! Australasia, all the purple ones! Get everyone on Papua New Guinea and just build up and build up…

And Hitler ended up in a ditch, covered in petrol, on fire, so, that’s fun! I think that’s funny, ‘cause he was a mass-murdering fuckhead. And that was his honeymoon as well! Double trouble!

The Word of the Fnord.

53 GeneJockey  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:15:43pm

re: #48 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

He’s right on that. But the wingnut crowd is already screaming for MOAR WAR!

Right up until Obama does something, then he’s trying to distract us from the Obamacare disaster, or something like that.

54 b.d.  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:15:57pm

re: #49 The War TARDIS

I remember seeing a comment that was among the leaked cables during the US Diplomatic Cable Leaks from Prince Andrew in the UK, that seems to be completely valid here.

The Duke of York? I thought Snake Plissken killed him?

55 Pie-onist Overlord  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:16:48pm

Now the wingnuts have a shiny to distract them from their gay hate.

56 Ian G.  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:17:07pm

re: #48 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

He’s right on that. But the wingnut crowd is already screaming for MOAR WAR!

So they want war….against their hunky shirtless mancrush Vladdy?

57 GeneJockey  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:17:48pm

re: #54 b.d.

The Duke of York? I thought Snake Plissken killed him?

He had 10,000 men.

58 b.d.  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:18:05pm
“I looked the man in the eye. I found him to be very straight forward and trustworthy and we had a very good dialogue.

“I was able to get a sense of his soul.” - George Bush on Putin

news.bbc.co.uk

59 AntonSirius  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:18:05pm

re: #22 Ian G.

Beat me to it.

I like the 1914 map of Eastern Europe. So many fewer countries to memorize.

upload.wikimedia.org

I’m more used to this map

F Lon-Nth, etc

60 chadu  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:18:21pm

re: #35 William Barnett-Lewis

I thought maybe you’d say it should be turned so it’s long side was on the flag staff…

GayChadu says, “That’s the way I like it, honey.”

;)

61 Internet Tough Guy  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:18:26pm

re: #56 Ian G.

Think of it as chickenhawk hatesex.

62 Bulworth  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:18:39pm

re: #27 Pie-onist Overlord

Stay classy, Toddy

63 Ian G.  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:18:51pm

re: #36 dog philosopher

but the wingnut’s will say that that was different, using the compelling logic of the statement “but that was different”

The funny thing is how similar the situations are. Former Soviet republic with pro-West government has restive pro-Russian region that wants autonomy. Russian military steps in to guarantee the autonomy.

I just hope the current government in Kiev doesn’t do something stupid like Saakashivili did and invade Crimea.

64 Kragar  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:19:05pm
65 chadu  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:20:05pm

re: #44 Killgore Trout

“Some things have happened. We saw the things and will continue to look at the things. We’ll let you know what happens later after we watch the things some more.”

Oh, wait. If you don’t think that’s a good thing, I may have to take my upding back.

66 b.d.  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:20:10pm

re: #64 Kragar

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Thanks for giving putin ideas Sarah!!

67 Ian G.  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:20:19pm

re: #39 Pie-onist Overlord

HURR HURR OBAMA’S SUCH A PUSSY!!!!!! REMEMBER REAGAN SAID TEH BOMBING BEGINS IN 5 MINUTES!!!! WHAT A REAL MAN!!!!!!!!

Reagan had us kick the crap out of the mighty Grenadian army. That’s exactly the same thing as fighting the Russians in Crimea.

68 Targetpractice  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:21:11pm

re: #54 b.d.

The Duke of York? I thought Snake Plissken killed him?

I thought Plissken was dead?

69 GeneJockey  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:21:43pm

re: #64 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Even a blind pig with lipstick on finds an acorn once in a while.

Hold on, though. She said that SIX FUCKING YEARS AGO? Isn’t there some kind of Statute of Limitations for shit like that? Like, shouldn’t it have to be in the First Term or something?

70 chadu  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:22:05pm

re: #56 Ian G.

So they want war….against their hunky shirtless mancrush Vladdy?

Of course not because shut up.

71 chadu  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:22:19pm

re: #68 Targetpractice

I thought Plissken was dead?

I thought he’d be taller.

72 Dr Lizardo  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:22:25pm

re: #68 Targetpractice

I thought Plissken was dead?

GORDON’S ALIVE??!!

73 makeitstop  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:23:14pm

re: #68 Targetpractice

I thought Plissken was dead?

You and everybody else.

74 Kragar  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:23:27pm
75 GeneJockey  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:23:41pm

re: #65 chadu

Oh, wait. If you don’t think that’s a good thing, I may have to take my upding back.

He appears to be indulging in a slightly less blatant version of what Starnes is doing, i.e. criticising the President for doing exactly what he really wants him to do, and what he’d praise a Republican for doing.

I’m willing to be corrected, but it sure looks like it.

76 Gus  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:23:51pm
77 Lidane  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:24:07pm
78 Kragar  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:24:36pm
79 kirkspencer  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:24:39pm

re: #69 GeneJockey

Even a blind pig with lipstick on finds an acorn once in a while.

Hold on, though. She said that SIX FUCKING YEARS AGO? Isn’t there some kind of Statute of Limitations for shit like that? Like, shouldn’t it have to be in the First Term or something?

Yeah, “next” tends to imply sooner than six years.

80 chadu  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:25:01pm

re: #69 GeneJockey

Even a blind pig with lipstick on finds an acorn once in a while.

Hold on, though. She said that SIX FUCKING YEARS AGO? Isn’t there some kind of Statute of Limitations for shit like that? Like, shouldn’t it have to be in the First Term or something?

I bet Obama won’t run for President in 2016. — me, 12/1/2012

81 Gus  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:26:13pm

Uh, Russia hasn’t invaded Ukraine.

82 dog philosopher  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:26:23pm

difference between putin vs hitler and stalin:

only implement as much fascist imperialism as you can get away with safely

83 The War TARDIS  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:27:07pm

re: #76 Gus

You would have to re-institute the draft.

And get rid of Tax Cuts, and Go to a near socialist-economic footing.

Wouldn’t go over too well.

84 chadu  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:27:53pm

re: #81 Gus

Uh, Russia hasn’t invaded Ukraine.

It totes did because shut up.

85 piratedan  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:28:03pm

always nice to see how ready our R friends are to send the dudes who are just now getting back from Afghanistan and Iraq off to war again.

You folks could take a page from history and go over and volunteer, you know, like folks did in the proxy fight in Spain (Spanish Civil War) in the 1920’s and it’s not as if you don’t already own an arsenal of weapons and gear, amirite?

86 The War TARDIS  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:29:12pm

re: #85 piratedan

Except they would help Putin.

After all, on the other side are those ebul Muslim Tatars.

87 Gus  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:31:01pm
88 piratedan  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:31:04pm

re: #86 The War TARDIS

Except they would help Putin.

After all, on the other side are those ebul Muslim Tatars.

who gives a shit, at least these nutbars wouldn’t be here being mortified by rap music, hoodies and penis cake.

89 Lidane  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:31:05pm

re: #83 The War TARDIS

More to the point, the chickenhawk assholes who want war with Russia over Ukraine or Crimea couldn’t just send someone else’s kids or grandkids to die in that war. They’d have a stake in the outcome too.

90 GeneJockey  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:31:09pm

re: #85 piratedan

always nice to see how ready our R friends are to send the dudes who are just now getting back from Afghanistan and Iraq off to war again.

And this right after successfully blocking an increase in funding for Veterans programs.

91 Lidane  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:32:26pm
92 piratedan  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:33:15pm

re: #91 Lidane

obviously this could all be solved with more bully pulpit and bipartisanship ////

93 GeneJockey  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:33:57pm

re: #91 Lidane

[Embedded content]

Talk loudly and carry an small, limp stick.

94 Kragar  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:33:58pm
95 Amory Blaine  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:34:09pm

96 chadu  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:34:59pm

re: #91 Lidane

[Embedded content]

Penis cakes.

97 chadu  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:35:44pm

re: #93 GeneJockey

Talk loudly and carry an small, limp stick.

GayChadu: I certainly don’t like it that way, sweetie.

;)

98 Ian G.  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:36:03pm

re: #93 GeneJockey

Talk loudly and carry an small, limp stick.

The W. Doctrine

99 blueraven  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:36:05pm

I am sure Putin would be sending Russian military if we invaded Mexico.

100 Kragar  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:36:09pm
101 Charles Johnson  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:36:38pm
102 Lidane  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:37:04pm
103 TedStriker  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:37:22pm

re: #25 GeneJockey

It is as I predicted - they’re thanking their lucky stars it’s not their guy in the hot seat, because they know there’s not anything we can or should do about this.

Which means that, when it’s clear that President Obama’s hands are tied and that the US doesn’t have either the authority or the support to intercede directly IRT Ukraine and the Crimea, even if he wanted to, the RWNJs will start bitching about how President Obama won’t lift a finger.

Can’t win for losing…

104 chadu  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:37:24pm

re: #101 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

“I’ve said that many times.”

105 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:37:59pm

re: #91 Lidane

[Embedded content]

When the dumbasses saying weird stuff like “Where’s NATO?” or whatever on this are asked direct questions they don’t really tend to answer, in my experience.

106 Weet  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:38:49pm

Oh gawd. CNN is getting ready to have McCain tell us ‘what should the US be doing’ about Ukraine. Live. Ugh.

107 GeneJockey  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:40:00pm

re: #103 TedStriker

Which means that, when it’s clear that President Obama’s hands are tied and that the US doesn’t have either the authority or the support to intercede directly IRT Ukraine and the Crimea, even if he wanted to, the RWNJs will start bitching about how President Obama won’t lift a finger.

Can’t win for losing…

Yeah. It’s a twofer for them. Do nothing? He’s too passive. Do something? Wag the dog!

108 Lidane  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:40:47pm
109 TedStriker  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:40:57pm

re: #30 Lidane

WTF does he expect? Does he want us to invade Crimea to kick out the Russians?

The RWNJs want it and demand it; war (and the ensuing death and destruction) is the only way they can get a hard-on.

110 Decatur Deb  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:41:19pm

Let’s imagine a resolution carrying an ultimatum and draft declaration of war in the House of Representatives.

111 Lidane  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:41:42pm

re: #109 TedStriker

The RWNJs want it and demand it; war is the only way they can get a hard-on.

There are pills for that. They’re even covered by Obamacare. =P

112 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:42:13pm

re: #110 Decatur Deb

Let’s imagine a resolution carrying an ultimatum and draft declaration of war in the House of Representatives.

You mean the Resolution to Counter-Invade Ukraine With All Expenditures Offset By Cuts To the Labor Department and Department of Education Bill?

113 GeneJockey  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:42:22pm

re: #100 Kragar

[Embedded content]

So, wait - a government that’s the result of a revolution against a government founded 70 years earlier as the result of a revolution doesn’t recognize the legitimacy of a government that’s the result of a revolution?

114 Lidane  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:42:33pm

re: #110 Decatur Deb

Let’s imagine a resolution carrying an ultimatum and draft declaration of war in the House of Representatives.

Written by GOHMERT!, Bachmann, and Steve King, no less.

o_O

115 CuriousLurker  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:43:05pm

re: #94 Kragar

[Embedded content]

I want to know HTF they propose we pay for the desired intervention in the Crimea: How many troops do we need to send? How long will they have to stay? How much will it cost—not just the fighting part, but taking care of the wounded? Who’s going to pay for it? Who wants to volunteer to dig graves for the fallen when the bodies start coming home?

116 Gus  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:43:14pm
117 Gus  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:44:14pm
118 Decatur Deb  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:44:18pm

re: #112 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

You mean the Resolution to Counter-Invade Ukraine With All Expenditures Offset By Cuts To the Labor Department and Department of Education Bill?

No. First we get a bill that sets the income tax at 1945 levels every time we launch troops with a basic ammo load.

119 Kragar  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:46:12pm
120 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:47:46pm

I don’t think Ukrainians want WWIII started because of this, either.


But Russia deserves world condemnation.

121 Gus  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:48:31pm
122 Gus  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:49:06pm

What’s that weird huge space under the Tweet?

123 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:49:08pm
124 darthstar  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:49:15pm

It’s gonna get wet for a couple of days.

Image: 6Oyd4Fh.gif

125 thedopefishlives  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:49:19pm

Evening Lizardim from the dangerously unstable wild north country. Well, unstable weather-wise, certainly nothing like the instability in the Ukraine right now. Since I’ve been a bit sheltered from the news over the last 24 hours or so, just answer me one question: Has Putin taken the Janet Reno approach to diplomacy yet?

126 darthstar  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:50:20pm

re: #121 Gus

That’s when you hope for one Secret Service agent who isn’t afraid to clock the guy from the side.

127 Decatur Deb  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:51:03pm

We can’t nuke Russia with Snowden there.

128 TedStriker  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:51:08pm

re: #54 b.d.

The Duke of York? I thought Snake Plissken killed him?

That’s the Duke of New York.

/”A-Number One!”

129 thedopefishlives  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:51:37pm

re: #127 Decatur Deb

We can’t nuke Russia with Snowden there.

Actually, that sounds like a bonus. Kinda like nuking Canada to get Justin Bieber.///

130 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:52:14pm

re: #118 Decatur Deb

No. First we get a bill that sets the income tax at 1945 levels every time we launch troops with a basic ammo load.

94% tax on income over $200,000? I’d be on board. Patriotic duty.

131 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:52:27pm
132 ObserverArt  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:52:47pm

re: #105 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

When the dumbasses saying weird stuff like “Where’s NATO?” or whatever on this are asked direct questions they don’t really tend to answer, in my experience.

Yeah…I had found that out a bit earlier in a previous thread. It’s easy to sit back and mock the obvious targets, mock our government and president and not have one word as to what they’d do. Talk about commitment.

That is the real American way. By God…be a strong critic…of everything. That’ll show ‘em!

Whooo..rahhhh!

133 TedStriker  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:53:25pm

re: #76 Gus

Hehe…I don’t think you’re gonna get too many RWNJ takers on that one, Gus.

134 Decatur Deb  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:54:34pm

BBL. There’ll be an L, right?

135 CuriousLurker  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:55:17pm

re: #120 Justanotherhuman

I don’t think Ukrainians want WWIII started because of this, either.

Considering what Kiev looked like after WWII, I’ll bet you’re right:

Ruined Kiev during bombings of World War II

136 thedopefishlives  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:55:18pm

re: #134 Decatur Deb

BBL. There’ll be an L, right?

Don’t worry. We’ve still got our Nike missile in the town park. We got this.

137 blueraven  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:55:31pm

re: #134 Decatur Deb

BBL. There’ll be an L, right?

John McCain says, Maybe!

138 The War TARDIS  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:55:38pm

re: #134 Decatur Deb

I’d say we still have 3 minutes to midnight now.

139 BongCrodny  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:55:50pm

re: #117 Gus

[Embedded content]

It doesn’t matter what Obama does — they’ll demand he do the exact opposite.

140 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:57:47pm

re: #126 darthstar

That’s when you hope for one Secret Service agent who isn’t afraid to clock the guy from the side.

No, you shouldn’t club ‘em just because they’re being obnoxious. That kind of DERPer is annoying and should be removed, but he isn’t actually dangerous.

141 thedopefishlives  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:57:50pm

re: #115 CuriousLurker

I want to know HTF they propose we pay for the desired intervention in the Crimea: How many troops do we need to send? How long will they have to stay? How much will it cost—not just the fighting part, but taking care of the wounded? Who’s going to pay for it? Who wants to volunteer to dig graves for the fallen when the bodies start coming home?

How much is it going to cost to clean up the nuclear death and destruction after our intervention triggers WWIII: Electric Boogaloo?

142 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:58:51pm
The territory of Crimea was conquered and controlled many times throughout its history. The Cimmerians, Greeks, Scythians, Goths, Huns, Bulgars, Khazars, the state of Kievan Rus’, Byzantine Greeks, Kipchaks, Ottoman Turks, Golden Horde Tatars and the Mongols all controlled Crimea in its earlier history. In the 13th century, it was partly controlled by the Venetians and by the Genovese; they were followed by the Crimean Khanate and the Ottoman Empire in the 15th to 18th centuries, the Russian Empire in the 18th to 20th centuries, Germany during World War II and the Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic and later the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic, within the Soviet Union during the rest of the 20th century.

Just sharpening my memory.

143 jvic  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 2:59:56pm

1. The situation in Ukraine does not affect the essential interests of the USA or EU, but it is important: not important enough for a shooting war which could easily escalate to nuclear, but arguably important enough for an economic war which the West would win at the cost of dislocation and discomfort to its citizens.

2. I’m not saying Wikipedia should be taken at face value, but the following is roughly consistent with my vague memory of events:

In his speech in parliament the Prime Minister of Ukraine Leonid Kuchma however advocated to preserve in Ukraine the most effective and powerful part of the Ukrainian nuclear arsenal—46 ICBM SS-24 which could have been kept for a long time.

The next stage was the signing on January 14, 1994 of the Trilateral Statement by the Presidents of Ukraine, Russia, and the United States under which Ukraine was to destroy all nuclear weapons on its territory, including strategic offensive weapons. Ukraine, Washington and Moscow reached an agreement in January that allowed for the dismantling of Ukraine’s 176 Intercontinental ballistic missile (ICBMs) ahead of Kiev’s formal ratification of the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT).[3][4] France and China provided unilateral security assurances in the form of diplomatic notes. The missiles—130 SS-18s and 46 SS-24s—carried about 1,800 nuclear warheads altogether.

Before voting on accession, Ukraine demanded from Russia, the USA, France and the United Kingdom a written statement that these powers undertook to extend the security guarantees to Ukraine. Instead security assurances to Ukraine (Ukraine published the documents as guarantees given to Ukraine[5]) were given on 5 December 1994 at a formal ceremony in Budapest (known as the Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances[6]), may be summarized as follows: Russia, the UK and the USA undertake to respect Ukraine’s borders in accordance with the principles of the 1975 CSCE Final Act, to abstain from the use or threat of force against Ukraine, to support Ukraine where an attempt is made to place pressure on it by economic coercion, and to bring any incident of aggression by a nuclear power before the UN Security Council.

“You f**ked up. You trusted us.” The West to Ukraine?

144 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 3:00:31pm

re: #137 blueraven

John McCain says, Maybe!

McCain already said there was no chance of military intervention. So the wingnuts may scream on the net, but no one of note in Congress is going to propose any sort of intervention.

145 darthstar  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 3:01:26pm

Keep in mind those trees you seeing getting snapped like toothpicks are about 12-18” in diameter and about 30-40’ tall.

Youtube Video

You gotta respect a good snowfall…otherwise that shit’ll kill you.

146 Gus  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 3:02:59pm

Looks like the inner wingnut is coming out in some people I follow.

147 darthstar  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 3:03:16pm

re: #144 Dark_Falcon

McCain already said there was no chance of military intervention. So the wingnuts may scream on the net, but no one of note in Congress is going to propose any sort of intervention.

McCain’s opinion matters about as much as Paula Deen’s does. Though he does have the war hero badge, so I suspect we’ll be having him second-guessing Obama on every network come Sunday.

148 Gus  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 3:03:19pm
149 Dr Lizardo  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 3:03:45pm

re: #120 Justanotherhuman

I don’t think Ukrainians want WWIII started because of this, either.

[Embedded content]


But Russia deserves world condemnation.

I’m pretty sure the Ukrainians, especially in the West, will put up one hell of a resistance movement if Russia did actually invade and attempt to impose Russian authority over the country.

It would be a bloody affair. One I think that even Putin recognizes, and I don’t think he’d be willing to go that far. In a worse-case scenario, Ukraine would become Putin’s Afghanistan.

150 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 3:04:19pm
151 klys  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 3:05:18pm

re: #145 darthstar

Jill Fredston’s book on avalanches (part science, part memoir) is excellent and highly recommended if you are curious about more.

152 Charles Johnson  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 3:06:07pm

Here’s the transcript of Obama’s statement:

STATEMENT BY THE PRESIDENT ON UKRAINE

James S. Brady Press Briefing Room
5:05 P.M. EST

THE PRESIDENT: Good afternoon, everybody.

Over the last several days, the United States has been responding to events as they unfold in Ukraine. Throughout this crisis, we have been very clear about one fundamental principle: The Ukrainian people deserve the opportunity to determine their own future. Together with our European allies, we have urged an end to the violence and encouraged Ukrainians to pursue a course in which they stabilize their country, forge a broad-based government and move to elections this spring.

I also spoke several days ago with President Putin, and my administration has been in daily communication with Russian officials, and we’ve made clear that they can be part of an international community’s effort to support the stability and success of a united Ukraine going forward, which is not only in the interest of The people of Ukraine and the international community, but also in Russia’s interest.

However, we are now deeply concerned by reports of military movements taken by the Russian Federation inside of Ukraine. Russia has a historic relationship with Ukraine, including cultural and economic ties, and a military facility in Crimea, but any violation of Ukraine’s sovereignty and territorial integrity would be deeply destabilizing, which is not in the interest of Ukraine, Russia, or Europe.

It would represent a profound interference in matters that must be determined by the Ukrainian people. It would be a clear violence of Russia’s commitment to respect the independence and sovereignty and borders of Ukraine, and of international laws. And just days after the world came to Russia for the Olympic Games, it would invite the condemnation of nations around the world. And indeed, the United States will stand with the international community in affirming that there will be costs for any military intervention in Ukraine.

The events of the past several months remind us of how difficult democracy can be in a country with deep divisions. But the Ukrainian people have also reminded us that human beings have a universal right to determine their own future.

Right now, the situation remains very fluid. Vice President Biden just spoke with Prime Minister — the Prime Minister of Ukraine to assure him that in this difficult moment the United States supports his government’s efforts and stands for the sovereignty, territorial integrity and democratic future of Ukraine. I also commend the Ukrainian government’s restraint and its commitment to uphold its international obligations.

We will continue to coordinate closely with our European allies. We will continue to communicate directly with the Russian government. And we will continue to keep all of you in the press corps and the American people informed as events develop.

Thanks very much.

END 5:09 P.M. EST

153 darthstar  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 3:08:14pm

re: #151 klys

Jill Fredston’s book on avalanches (part science, part memoir) is excellent and highly recommended if you are curious about more.

I read his book Snow Sense when I took my Level 1 Avalanche Certification. He knows his snow.

154 Gus  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 3:08:22pm
155 Lidane  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 3:08:33pm
156 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 3:08:39pm

Not sure what ‘Provocation neutralized’ means.

157 klys  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 3:09:01pm

re: #153 darthstar

I read his book Snow Sense when I took my Level 1 Avalanche Certification. He knows his snow.

Her. :) But yes. Her husband is one of the other big names, but I think most of the writing has been hers. They’ve developed a lot of the knowledge that’s out there.

158 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 3:09:12pm

re: #143 jvic

1. The situation in Ukraine does not affect the essential interests of the USA or EU, but it is important: not important enough for a shooting war which could easily escalate to nuclear, but arguably important enough for an economic war which the West would win at the cost of dislocation and discomfort to its citizens.

2. I’m not saying Wikipedia should be taken at face value, but the following is roughly consistent with my vague memory of events:

“You f**ked up. You trusted us.” The West to Ukraine?

The US has no stomach for such an economic war, and Barack Obama knows better than to even float the option. If the US and the EU tried that this year, the Democrats would be pummeled in November. The public would care nothing for the Ukraine and very much about the increased price of gasoline. Asking for such sacrifices from the citizenry is not done anymore here.

159 CuriousLurker  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 3:09:40pm

re: #143 jvic

1. The situation in Ukraine does not affect the essential interests of the USA or EU, but it is important: not important enough for a shooting war which could easily escalate to nuclear, but arguably important enough for an economic war which the West would win at the cost of dislocation and discomfort to its citizens.

2. I’m not saying Wikipedia should be taken at face value, but the following is roughly consistent with my vague memory of events:

“You f**ked up. You trusted us.” The West to Ukraine?

Russia to Ukraine? They signed on too, and AFAIK they’re the only ones making aggressive moves right now.

160 darthstar  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 3:10:38pm

This is why people should fucking ignore McCain…he also said “We are all Georgians” a few years ago. He doesn’t speak for me. I wish he’d let the person we elected, President Obama, say what needs to be said. He speaks for me.

161 TedStriker  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 3:10:58pm

re: #141 thedopefishlives

How much is it going to cost to clean up the nuclear death and destruction after our intervention triggers WWIII: Electric Atomic Boogaloo?

FTFY…

162 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 3:11:34pm

re: #160 darthstar

We’re a lot of people.

163 darthstar  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 3:11:38pm

re: #157 klys

Her. :) But yes. Her husband is one of the other big names, but I think most of the writing has been hers. They’ve developed a lot of the knowledge that’s out there.

Oops…Her.

164 lawhawk  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 3:11:53pm

re: #156 NJDhockeyfan

Quite possibly that the troops attempting to disarm were themselves disarmed (outnumbered by a superior force of Ukrainian troops).

165 darthstar  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 3:12:29pm

re: #162 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

We’re a lot of people.

We are the world, we are the children…
We are the farm aid…
We are the tea party…wait…scratch that last one.

166 klys  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 3:13:00pm

re: #163 darthstar

Oops…Her.

I haven’t done any kind of avalanche certs (mostly because, well, the chance of me having any need of them is virtually nil) but I have both her books on it anyway. And then her kayaking memoir too just because I like her writing style.

167 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 3:13:03pm
168 Targetpractice  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 3:13:05pm

re: #165 darthstar

We are the world, we are the children…
We are the farm aid…
We are the tea party…wait…scratch that last one.

What’s this “we” business, kemosabe?

169 Gus  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 3:15:41pm
170 Lidane  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 3:16:00pm

re: #160 darthstar

171 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 3:16:41pm

re: #152 Charles Johnson

“It would be a clear violence of Russia’s commitment …”

Did he actually say violence or is that a typo in the transcript?

172 Lidane  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 3:17:19pm
173 Charles Johnson  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 3:17:30pm

By the way, here’s another way to insert a tweet into a comment - instead of pasting the URL, create a link for the tweet and add ‘class=”tweetpop”’ to the tag.

Like this:

<a href="TWEET_URL" class="tweetpop">Tweet!</a>

Replace ‘TWEET_URL’ with, guess what, the tweet’s URL.

The result looks something like this.

174 Aqua Obama  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 3:17:34pm

re: #169 Gus

[Embedded content]

We’re not going to live that one down for the next 50 years.

175 Killgore Trout  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 3:17:41pm

re: #156 NJDhockeyfan

Not sure what ‘Provocation neutralized’ means.

[Embedded content]

It might have been a polite “No thanks, we’ll keep them for now”. So far the Russians haven’t met any resistance so they might be testing the waters to see how much they can get away with.

176 Charles Johnson  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 3:18:08pm

You may need to reload the page to see that tweet popup.

177 Stanley Sea  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 3:18:37pm

re: #171 goddamnedfrank

“It would be a clear violence of Russia’s commitment …”

Did he actually say violence or is that a typo in the transcript?

Violation? Yah, read that too.

178 CuriousLurker  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 3:18:59pm

Okay, I’m not n the mood for this #WAR #WAR #WAR crap.

Later, lizards.

179 darthstar  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 3:19:10pm
180 Amory Blaine  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 3:21:12pm

Obama said this so there is a warning to Putin.

And indeed, the United States will stand with the international community in affirming that there will be costs for any military intervention in Ukraine.

181 darthstar  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 3:21:38pm
182 Aqua Obama  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 3:22:13pm

So what now?

I could see the US clearly dicking around with Russia if a Crimean opposition group pops up.

Taking the Crimea might not be such a great deal for Russia if this finally pushes the rest of the country into something like NATO. I’m sure this was in anticipation of something like that.

183 lawhawk  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 3:22:14pm

As a reminder to the Chairborne Rangers who think that unless the US blows Russian stuff up in response to their actions in Crimea:

184 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 3:22:15pm

re: #169 Gus

[Embedded content]

185 Charles Johnson  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 3:22:19pm

One advantage of putting a tweet inside a popup link like this: the page loads faster since it doesn’t need to embed that tweet directly into the page.

186 Charles Johnson  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 3:23:13pm

Let’s try that new improved regex again.

187 Gus  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 3:24:01pm

re: #184 Dark_Falcon

[Embedded content]

True. 500,000 civilians have yet to die in Ukraine.

188 TedStriker  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 3:24:23pm

re: #183 lawhawk

As a reminder to the Chairborne Rangers who think that unless the US blows Russian stuff up in response to their actions in Crimea:

Obama’s options on Crimea are same as Bush’s re: South Ossetia; outcome will be similar if Obama pursues similar strategy
— lawhawk (@lawhawk) February 28, 2014

As in absolutely, positively zero, as far as the military option goes.

Sorry, RWNJ chickenhawks.

189 Lidane  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 3:24:56pm
190 Killgore Trout  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 3:25:12pm

re: #158 Dark_Falcon

The US has no stomach for such an economic war, and Barack Obama knows better than to even float the option. If the US and the EU tried that this year, the Democrats would be pummeled in November. The public would care nothing for the Ukraine and very much about the increased price of gasoline. Asking for such sacrifices from the citizenry is not done anymore here.

There are other options besides war and economic sanctions. There are plenty of things that go on behind the scenes. The Russians know NATO/US isn’t going to fight a war against the Russians. Economic sanctions are very unlikely. Those factors haven’t changed. I think the Russian calculations are how much will we threaten their interests elsewhere. We aren’t going to do anything in Syria, Iran or anywhere else to interfere with expanding Russian influence/allies. Their move in Ulkraine is safe because they know it’s unlikely to effect any of their plans.

191 kirkspencer  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 3:25:39pm

re: #183 lawhawk

As a reminder to the Chairborne Rangers who think that unless the US blows Russian stuff up in response to their actions in Crimea:

[Embedded content]

True only if no other nation gets involved.

If Poland in particular gets involved it’s an entirely different ballgame.

There was no way to get to Ossetia without crossing Russian controlled territory. Ukraine, on the other hand, borders Poland, a NATO nation.

192 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 3:26:04pm

From Pres Obama’s statement:

“…we’ve made clear that they can be part of an international community’s effort to support the stability and success of a united Ukraine going forward, which is not only in the interest of The people of Ukraine and the international community, but also in Russia’s interest.”

The velvet glove.

193 Gus  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 3:26:14pm
194 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 3:26:26pm

re: #187 Gus

True. 500,000 civilians have yet to die in Ukraine.

Far more Ukrainians died than that under Stalin, and again during World War II.

The Anglo-French siege of Savastopol in the 1850’s had nothing on the German siege of that city in 1941-42.

195 Gus  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 3:26:49pm

196 thedopefishlives  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 3:27:10pm

re: #192 Justanotherhuman

From Pres Obama’s statement:

“…we’ve made clear that they can be part of an international community’s effort to support the stability and success of a united Ukraine going forward, which is not only in the interest of The people of Ukraine and the international community, but also in Russia’s interest.”

The velvet glove gauntlet.

FTFY

197 ObserverArt  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 3:27:26pm

re: #184 Dark_Falcon

[Embedded content]

I think you are missing the point Dark. Remember…The US did invade a sovereign nation. We can’t be outraged about wanting to ‘control’ things to have them go Russia’s way.

Edit…I meant Russia’s way…not our way.

198 Amory Blaine  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 3:27:57pm
199 Gus  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 3:27:57pm

re: #194 Dark_Falcon

Far more Ukrainians died than that under Stalin, and again during World War II.

The Anglo-French siege of Savastopol in the 1850’s had nothing on the German siege of that city in 1941-42.

200 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 3:28:25pm


I think he went to the Dick Morris school of fortune telling.

201 wrenchwench  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 3:29:29pm

re: #155 Lidane


Boehner:

The House of Representatives stands with the people of Ukraine…

People of Ukraine:

OK, we’re really fucked now.

202 Gus  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 3:30:14pm

Well hell then. In that case we should have invaded Ukraine a long time ago and saved them from the Russians because clearly more Ukrainians died under Stalin than Iraqis under Saddam Hussein.

203 goddamnedfrank  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 3:30:46pm

The question is can Russia stand up to Ukraine’s elite adventuring party of epic level LARPers:

Paladin
Cleric
Wizard
Thief
Druid

204 lawhawk  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 3:30:50pm

re: #191 kirkspencer

Yeah, that’s the problem with analogies like this. Wildcards. What would Poland do? Would it take action on its own, and draw in NATO - or worse, NATO decides to do nothing in support of Poland, which would potentially break NATO as a power.

I think both are remote possibilities, but it’s not a zero possibility.

205 thedopefishlives  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 3:31:02pm

re: #200 FemNaziBitch

[Embedded content]


I think he went to the Dick Morris school of fortune telling.

Because what we really, REALLY need to be focusing on right now is Obamacare. Yes. That’s the ticket. I hope the Tea Party’s health care plan will cover our radiation burns after they bring about the end of the world. F—-ing morons.

206 Gus  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 3:31:08pm

207 Gus  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 3:31:34pm

208 Archangelus  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 3:31:57pm

re: #76 Gus

[Embedded content]

Yup. ‘If you’re itching for a war so badly, sign up or shut up.’

209 jaunte  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 3:33:09pm

re: #200 FemNaziBitch

Ted Cruz: part of Castro’s revenge on the U.S.

210 Dr Lizardo  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 3:33:13pm

re: #182 Aqua Obama

So what now?

I could see the US clearly dicking around with Russia if a Crimean opposition group pops up.

Taking the Crimea might not be such a great deal for Russia if this finally pushes the rest of the country into something like NATO. I’m sure this was in anticipation of something like that.

That’s a distinct possibility; perhaps Putin is reckoning that it’s only a matter of time before Ukraine seeks to join the EU and/or NATO, so if he wants to secure the Sevastopol naval base, he’d better do it ASAP. Russia cares far more about its access to the Sevastopol naval facility than anything else, probably even more than the eastern regions of Ukraine, despite their heavy industry.

But the Sevastopol base? Yeah, I don’t think Putin wants that falling into NATO hands.

211 thedopefishlives  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 3:33:34pm

At this point, I am absolutely, firmly convinced that if the Tea Party and the radical right wing had its way, they would be initiating a global nuclear war right now. I. Just. Do. Not. GET. Them.

212 ObserverArt  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 3:33:37pm

Hmmm. In Gus’ image in #206, I’m wondering if GW got his wallet back from Vlad.

213 Gus  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 3:33:54pm

214 Gus  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 3:34:32pm

215 dog philosopher  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 3:34:56pm

GOP Reacts To Ukraine Crisis By Stepping Up Snarky Remarks About Obama

tea party certain foreign policy would be handled better if president would just admit he is stupid looking

216 Gus  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 3:34:58pm

Please proceed conservatives.

217 wrenchwench  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 3:35:27pm

re: #203 goddamnedfrank

The question is can Russia stand up to Ukraine’s elite adventuring party of epic level LARPers:

Paladin
Cleric
Wizard
Thief
Druid

Hey Charles—I’m not getting a slideshow from these. Happened yesterday too.

218 Gus  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 3:36:30pm

219 wrenchwench  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 3:36:47pm

OT:

220 Lidane  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 3:36:53pm

re: #200 FemNaziBitch

Even Don Quixote came to realize his quests were just delusional fantasies. WTF.

221 Gus  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 3:37:02pm

Oops. Sorry. Can’t bring up history. No, wait.

222 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 3:37:53pm

re: #218 Gus

[Embedded image]

Haha, Bush driving a Volga?

223 Gus  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 3:38:07pm

This pic is awesome. Looks like Putin has a crush on George.

224 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 3:38:14pm

re: #222 Justanotherhuman

Haha, Bush driving a Volga?

He is too big for the car.

225 lawhawk  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 3:38:24pm

re: #210 Dr Lizardo

Sebastopol was going to revert to Ukrainian hands in 2017 because the Yushchenko government didn’t want to renew the lease on the base. The Russians were looking at relocating their Baltic fleet to Novorossiysk.

226 Gus  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 3:38:27pm

re: #222 Justanotherhuman

Haha, Bush driving a Volga?

Looks like it.

227 darthstar  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 3:38:38pm
228 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 3:38:58pm

re: #223 Gus

[Embedded image]

This pic is awesome. Looks like Putin has a crush on George.

Glad Vlad. A human trash bag.

229 lawhawk  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 3:40:19pm

re: #227 darthstar

230 bratwurst  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 3:40:34pm

re: #218 Gus

Contrast all of those with the pictures of Obama and Putin like this:

and ask yourself which president was…uh…more naive about the man.

231 Gus  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 3:41:56pm

re: #230 bratwurst

Contrast all of those with the pictures of Obama and Putin like this:

[Embedded image]

and ask yourself which president was…uh…more naive about the man.

232 EPR-radar  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 3:42:13pm

re: #211 thedopefishlives

At this point, I am absolutely, firmly convinced that if the Tea Party and the radical right wing had its way, they would be initiating a global nuclear war right now. I. Just. Do. Not. GET. Them.

You’re right. We can add “reducing the chance of the US starting World War III for idiotic reasons” to the long list of compelling reasons to never vote GOP anytime, anywhere, for any office, at any level.

233 wrenchwench  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 3:42:55pm

re: #231 Gus

[Embedded image]

Caption: ‘I miss Georgie.’

234 Aqua Obama  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 3:42:57pm

re: #213 Gus

[Embedded image]

That looks like a Far Side comic

235 dog philosopher  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 3:43:49pm

re: #206 Gus

[Embedded image]

“we are real he-men, doing manly man things together”

236 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 3:43:57pm
237 jvic  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 3:44:54pm

1. re: #158 Dark_Falcon

The US has no stomach for such an economic war, and Barack Obama knows better than to even float the option. If the US and the EU tried that this year, the Democrats would be pummeled in November. The public would care nothing for the Ukraine and very much about the increased price of gasoline. Asking for such sacrifices from the citizenry is not done anymore here.

No, the US/EU governing elites will counsel their people that the short-term travails of an economic war are necessary to avoid worse intermediate-term consequences. Citizens will grumble but go along out of patriotism, confidence in the judgment of their elected representatives, and humane concern for the people of Ukraine. Putin, seeing this, will fold the weak hand he is overplaying.

In an alternate universe, of course.

2. re: #159 CuriousLurker

Russia to Ukraine? They signed on too, and AFAIK they’re the only ones making aggressive moves right now.

Athens to Melos (second boldface is mine):

Athenians. For ourselves, we shall not trouble you with specious pretences- either of how we have a right to our empire because we overthrew the Mede, or are now attacking you because of wrong that you have done us- and make a long speech which would not be believed; and in return we hope that you, instead of thinking to influence us by saying that you did not join the Lacedaemonians, although their colonists, or that you have done us no wrong, will aim at what is feasible, holding in view the real sentiments of us both; since you know as well as we do that right, as the world goes, is only in question between equals in power, while the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.

The question, 100 years after 1914, is what we do.

238 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 3:45:17pm

re: #203 goddamnedfrank

The question is can Russia stand up to Ukraine’s elite adventuring party of epic level LARPers:

Paladin
Cleric
Wizard
Thief
Druid

Vladimir Putin can ride a grizzly bear and wield a Godlike-class sword while doing so. He can also fire arrows tipped with ricin or polonium. He makes Acererak look like a wimp.

/Gamer humor.

239 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 3:47:17pm

re: #237 jvic

Upding for the well-timed use of Thucydides.

240 blueraven  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 3:47:40pm

re: #167 FemNaziBitch

Just a couple of months before FDR died.

241 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 3:49:30pm

Pretty decent story on developments in Crimea w/some interesting photos.

Obama Warns Russia Not to Intervene in Crimea

nytimes.com

242 Aqua Obama  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 3:51:07pm
243 Aqua Obama  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 3:54:53pm

Churchy’s cigar is filled with weed, BTW.

244 GeneJockey  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 3:56:32pm

re: #236 FemNaziBitch

[Embedded content]

In the article, Sen. Inhofe says, “Now we have these people who are not rational, not logical, they’re nuts.”

Too much irony in my diet.

245 wrenchwench  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 3:56:48pm

Good question.

246 Gus  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 3:57:37pm

re: #243 Aqua Obama

Churchy’s cigar is filled with weed, BTW.

Well, at least he’s not crying. //

247 dog philosopher  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 3:59:28pm

one year from now:

“…mr obama also reminded mr putin that the u.s. does not approve of russia’s continuing occupation of the crimea…”

248 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 4:00:55pm

This is in English.

249 wrenchwench  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 4:00:58pm
250 Gus  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 4:01:15pm

Sorry America. Can’t control everything that happens in this world.

251 Gus  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 4:02:30pm

re: #249 wrenchwench

[Embedded content]

252 Gus  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 4:03:03pm

Striped areas indicate provinces with significant Russian-speaking populations.

253 Gus  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 4:03:32pm

Yep. Russia, for all we know, could very well take over all of Ukraine. Not much we can do about it.

254 darthstar  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 4:04:59pm

re: #253 Gus

Yep. Russia, for all we know, could very well take over all of Ukraine. Not much we can do about it.

We could bomb Iran. /McCain off.

255 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 4:05:59pm

re: #254 darthstar

We could bomb Iran. /McCain off.

Why don’t you snipe at Sarah Palin instead?

256 Gus  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 4:06:08pm
257 darthstar  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 4:06:31pm

re: #255 Dark_Falcon

Why don’t you snipe at Sarah Palin instead?

Because they’re a team. Snipe at McCain, and Sarah comes along for free.

258 Killgore Trout  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 4:06:47pm

re: #218 Gus

[Embedded image]

I love those Russian cars for some reason

259 Gus  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 4:07:15pm

I would also add that if Russia does invade Ukraine it too is not worth going to war over. Nope. No thanks.

260 Aqua Obama  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 4:07:50pm

re: #251 Gus


More:

Image: ukraine-map-composite.jpg

The Crimea is the only region with an ethnic (Russian) majority.

261 steve_davis  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 4:08:00pm

re: #35 William Barnett-Lewis

I thought maybe you’d say it should be turned so it’s long side was on the flag staff…

Thomas Jonathan “Long Dong Silver” Jackson—lesser known, better hung brother of Stonewall. Went on to star in some of Edison’s first gay pornos.

262 blueraven  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 4:08:26pm

re: #253 Gus

Yep. Russia, for all we know, could very well take over all of Ukraine. Not much we can do about it.

They could but I doubt they will, that would be a grave mistake for Russia.

263 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 4:09:05pm

re: #250 Gus

Sorry America. Can’t control everything that happens in this world.

97% of America already knows that.

264 Aqua Obama  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 4:10:02pm

If Putin really wants to negotiate, let’s have him give up control of half of Moldova and give him Chernobyl for absolutely free

265 Kragar  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 4:10:08pm

re: #263 Dark_Falcon

97% of America already knows that.

The other 3% think they’re at least 51%

266 lawhawk  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 4:10:25pm

re: #253 Gus

Yep. Russia, for all we know, could very well take over all of Ukraine. Not much we can do about it.

Ukraine would be more than willing to give the Chernobyl exclusion zone to Russia free of charge.

267 jvic  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 4:10:40pm

OT:

I could not bring myself to vote for McCain because his behavior is so volatile I don’t want him near The Button. (Yeah, I voted for Obama in 2008.)

Nevertheless, I acknowledge that, in contrast to Bush, McCain saw through Putin all along.

268 Dr Lizardo  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 4:12:32pm

re: #262 blueraven

They could but I doubt they will, that would be a grave mistake for Russia.

I tend to agree. It would ultimately lead to a Ukrainian insurgency movement, and a protracted, bloody guerilla war against the Russians.

269 wrenchwench  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 4:12:53pm
270 darthstar  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 4:13:00pm

re: #259 Gus

I would also add that if Russia does invade Ukraine it too is not worth going to war over. Nope. No thanks.

If global warming is so bad, why is everyone talking about a cold war?

271 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 4:13:38pm

re: #267 jvic

OT:

I could not bring myself to vote for McCain because his behavior is so volatile I don’t want him near The Button. (Yeah, I voted for Obama in 2008.)

Nevertheless, I acknowledge that, in contrast to Bush, McCain saw through Putin all along.

Did anyone but Bush not see through Putin?

272 Aqua Obama  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 4:14:17pm

I don’t know, but Putin certainly saw through Bush

273 wrenchwench  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 4:14:23pm
274 darthstar  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 4:15:10pm
275 Gus  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 4:15:49pm
276 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 4:16:28pm

re: #267 jvic

OT:

I could not bring myself to vote for McCain because his behavior is so volatile I don’t want him near The Button. (Yeah, I voted for Obama in 2008.)

Nevertheless, I acknowledge that, in contrast to Bush, McCain saw through Putin all along.

John McCain on Putin: “President Bush said that he ‘looked into Mr. Putin’s eyes and saw his soul.’ Well, I looked into his eyes and I saw three letters: a ‘K’, a ‘G’, and a ‘B’.”

You have to admit that was an excellent line.

277 Aqua Obama  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 4:17:11pm

re: #276 Dark_Falcon

So Putin wears contacts? And has three eyes?

278 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 4:18:46pm

re: #275 Gus

[Embedded content]

And thank you as well, Gus, for posting the correction Tweet here.

279 Killgore Trout  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 4:18:50pm

re: #275 Gus

[Embedded content]

They should have brought tanks. Tanks might be useful, not sure what they’re planning to do with artillery.

280 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 4:19:09pm

re: #277 Aqua Obama

So Putin wears contacts? And has three eyes?

SMACK!

281 Gus  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 4:19:21pm
282 Killgore Trout  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 4:19:42pm

re: #275 Gus

[Embedded content]

At least they didn’t call them AR-15’s

283 b.d.  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 4:20:03pm

After today’s events it has become startling obvious that the GOP must nominate SARAH 2016!!!!!

284 darthstar  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 4:20:05pm

For Dark Falcon

285 Gus  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 4:20:08pm

re: #279 Killgore Trout

They should have brought tanks. Tanks might be useful, not sure what they’re planning to do with artillery.

286 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 4:20:13pm

re: #279 Killgore Trout

They should have brought tanks. Tanks might be useful, not sure what they’re planning to do with artillery.

Shell any major resistance encountered. Artillery is a very useful thing to have, Killgore.

287 kirkspencer  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 4:20:40pm

re: #263 Dark_Falcon

97% of America already knows that.

No, I think it’s more like 73% that knows it.

288 Gus  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 4:21:47pm
289 darthstar  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 4:21:59pm

re: #286 Dark_Falcon

Shell any major resistance encountered. Artillery is a very useful thing to have, Killgore.

Also called “civilians”…122mm rounds have been known to stop rock-throwers in their tracks.

290 b.d.  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 4:23:52pm

re: #288 Gus

[Embedded content]

Didn’t Sarah & Todd name one of their kids Tank?

291 Killgore Trout  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 4:25:29pm

re: #285 Gus

[Embedded content]

Interesting. I can’t argue with that.

292 Decatur Deb  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 4:26:09pm

re: #288 Gus

[Embedded content]

This is sometimes a tank, sometimes not a tank. Changes more often than a Vegas stripper.

Image: m-551-dvic348.jpg

293 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 4:27:53pm

re: #290 b.d.

Didn’t Sarah & Todd name one of their kids Tank?

No, their eldest son is named Track.

294 dog philosopher  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 4:28:19pm

re: #264 Aqua Obama

If Putin really wants to negotiate, let’s have him give up control of half of Moldova and give him Chernobyl for absolutely free

don’t order the full moldova - too filling!

295 Killgore Trout  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 4:29:07pm

Obama’s speech has clogged up the news coverage. Searching for the latest updates just turns up the same generic story on Obama’s speech. This one caught my eye…..
Within Seven Hours, A 180 In US Stance On Russia’s Actions in Crimea

The public statements by members of President Obama’s administration in the run-up to Russia’s military movements in the Ukrainian region of Crimea suggest Russian officials kept the U.S. in the dark about their intentions until it was too late.

At 11 a.m., Secretary of State John Kerry implied the situation was contained enough that it was sufficient for him to caution Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov in a phone call Friday morning against the appearance of violating Ukrainian sovereignty - and Lavrov assured him they were not.

“I talked this morning with Foreign Minister Lavrov about the reports we are getting about Russian presence and what it may be choosing to do,” Kerry told reporters at the State Department. “While we were told that they are not engaging in any violation of the sovereignty and do not intend to … it is important for everybody to be extremely careful not to inflame the situation and not to send the wrong messages,” he said.

Less than seven hours later, it seemed everything had changed.

I have plenty of concerns and doubts about Obama’s foreign policy but it looks like ABC is going for clickbait.

296 Gus  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 4:29:35pm
297 dog philosopher  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 4:30:22pm

House Intelligence Committee Chairman Mike Rogers, R-Mich: ‘It appears that the Russian military now controls the Crimean peninsula’

thank you, captain obvious!

298 Decatur Deb  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 4:30:37pm

re: #296 Gus

Russian T-90. Tank.

US M551 pretending to be a Russian T80.

Image: 800px-M551_Sheridan_vismod_T-80.jpg

299 dog philosopher  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 4:31:16pm

re: #292 Decatur Deb

This is sometimes a tank, sometimes not a tank. Changes more often than a Vegas stripper.

Image: m-551-dvic348.jpg

sometimes a tank is just a tank

300 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 4:31:30pm

re: #289 darthstar

Also called “civilians”…122mm rounds have been known to stop rock-throwers in their tracks.

Shh, Darth. Don’t give Killgore any ideas. You keep talking like that and he’ll be calling for M1A2s to fire canister rounds into the next protest rally some ‘Occupy’ remnant puts together.

/kinda

301 Gus  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 4:32:50pm
302 Aqua Obama  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 4:35:56pm

re: #294 dog philosopher

don’t order the full moldova - too filling!

Youtube Video

303 Gus  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 4:36:31pm

Of course. Would be weird if PBO took military action. That would cornfuse a lot of people.

304 b.d.  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 4:37:24pm

re: #293 Dark_Falcon

No, their eldest son is named Track.

That makes much more sense, thanks.

305 Gus  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 4:38:17pm
306 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 4:38:47pm

re: #299 dog philosopher

sometimes a tank is just a tank

The M551 was a tank, it just wasn’t a very good one.

Image: 918331d8.jpg

307 b.d.  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 4:39:09pm

[Marshal Zhukov] NEED MORE TANKS!! [/Marshal Zhukov]

308 GeneJockey  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 4:39:21pm

re: #303 Gus

Of course. Would be weird if PBO took military action. That would cornfuse a lot of people.

Nonsense. It would cue the switch back to ‘Obama = Hitler’ from the current ‘Obama = Chamberlain’. And it would lead to accusations of ‘Wag the Dog’ to distract from working poor folks getting affordable health insurance the failure of Obamacare.

309 b.d.  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 4:39:58pm

The Battle of Putingrad

310 kirkspencer  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 4:41:25pm

What’s a tank?re: #306 Dark_Falcon

The M551 was a tank, it just wasn’t a very good one.

Image: 918331d8.jpg

Depends on the role in which you intend to use it. It’s a light tank - a recon vehicle capable of aerial insertion.

And the simple rule of armor is that if I have a big gun on an armored vehicle and you don’t, I have a tank even if it’s really just plate welded on a toyota unibody that’s got a Bofors 20mm on a pintle mount.

311 Gus  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 4:42:00pm

re: #306 Dark_Falcon

The M551 was a tank, it just wasn’t a very good one.

Image: 918331d8.jpg

Looks like it had great balance though. //

312 Decatur Deb  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 4:42:57pm

re: #306 Dark_Falcon

The M551 was a tank, it just wasn’t a very good one.

Image: 918331d8.jpg

Sometimes.

Sometimes it was an Armored Reconnaissance Vehicle, sometimes an ARAAV:

fas.org

313 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 4:44:20pm

You, too, can drink Russian vodka, for only $1,499.99.

Image: imperial_collection_fabrege_egg__42134.1362690611.220.290.jpg

Yes, this is actually available. Were there any in Yanuk’s houses?

314 dog philosopher  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 4:44:42pm

re: #302 Aqua Obama

[Embedded content]

“khey baby, wake up from your asleep - we have arrived onto the future!”

tell me this is a parody

315 darthstar  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 4:45:49pm
316 CuriousLurker  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 4:46:13pm

re: #237 jvic

Athens to Melos (second boldface is mine):

The question, 100 years after 1914, is what we do.

I would more heartily agree if all the things we have done since 1914 had been consistently noble, but that just sounds like realpolitik.

Is it true that “the weak suffer what they must”? The Armenian genocide, the Holocaust, Bosnia, Darfur, etc. were all simply things that the weak suffered because they must, or because the strong are too important, too busy to intervene and prevent the deaths of tens or hundreds of thousands or even millions?

317 Decatur Deb  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 4:47:20pm

re: #316 CuriousLurker

If the tank talk gets too thick, try Lorca. The penis cake plague has spread.

318 Killgore Trout  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 4:47:45pm

re: #305 Gus

[Embedded content]

Some nut babbled nonsense at the Supreme court today too. It’s crazy out there.

319 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 4:48:04pm

re: #307 b.d.

[Marshal Zhukov] NEED MORE TANKS!! [/Marshal Zhukov]

It’s gonna take more T-34s than you can crew to win this day, Russian!

Image: vimoutiers-tiger-2.jpg

Image: PzKpfw.VI.Tiger.I_s-SS-PzAbt.101_on_maneuvers_Normandy-1944.jpg

Image: Tiger1-131-Bovington-2004.jpg

Image: latetig.jpg

320 Killgore Trout  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 4:48:40pm

re: #315 darthstar

[Embedded content]

Well, they did ask nicely.

321 kirkspencer  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 4:48:54pm

Since I’m honestly conflicted about this I’ll toss it out.

If Putin orders Russian military forces to seize the whole of the Ukraine and the acting government of Ukraine calls on us to help, should we leave it alone or should we intervene? In the long run, which is less wrong?

322 darthstar  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 4:49:00pm

He looks like a reasonable fellow…

323 Decatur Deb  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 4:51:00pm

re: #322 darthstar

He looks like a reasonable fellow…

[Embedded content]

Might look better on fire.

324 CuriousLurker  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 4:51:28pm

re: #317 Decatur Deb

If the tank talk gets too thick, try Lorca. The penis cake plague has spread.

LOL, reading it now. Thanks!

325 Gus  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 4:51:33pm

re: #322 darthstar

He looks like a reasonable fellow…

[Embedded content]

Tea Party rally?

326 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 4:53:08pm

re: #321 kirkspencer

Since I’m honestly conflicted about this I’ll toss it out.

If Putin orders Russian military forces to seize the whole of the Ukraine and the acting government of Ukraine calls on us to help, should we leave it alone or should we intervene? In the long run, which is less wrong?

Thing is that if we were to intervene there might not be a ‘long run’.

327 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 4:54:14pm

re: #325 Gus

Tea Party rally?

No, Tea Party leather would be buckskin and they’d be wearing tri-corner hats.

328 kirkspencer  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 4:57:29pm

re: #326 Dark_Falcon

Thing is that if we were to intervene there might not be a ‘long run’.

There is always a long run.

329 jvic  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 4:57:47pm

1. re: #271 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

Did anyone but Bush not see through Putin?

Putin is an opportunist who will pounce on weakness. IMO he respects neither Bush nor Obama.

Had our elites not weakened the country (while doing very nicely for themselves…by doing very nicely for themselves, one might argue), Putin would have continued being Good Neighbor Vladi.

2. Change of subject: Subject to correction by strategists at LGF, I believe Russia views its Crimean naval base as a core national interest. A Russian practitioner of realpolitik might view Ukraine’s interactions with the EU & NATO as a threat to that base.

NB: I am not supporting Putin, I am trying to understand how he might think.

330 Killgore Trout  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 4:58:40pm

re: #321 kirkspencer

Since I’m honestly conflicted about this I’ll toss it out.

If Putin orders Russian military forces to seize the whole of the Ukraine and the acting government of Ukraine calls on us to help, should we leave it alone or should we intervene? In the long run, which is less wrong?

That depends on the definition of wrong. Non-interventionists would consider the absence of war (or at least Western involvement) to be a good thing. That’s not such a good thing for the Ukrainians who just won their freedom only to have it taken away again. Morally speaking it’s hard for me to give the “anti-war” crowd the moral high ground because non involvement carries its own moral burden.

331 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 4:58:50pm

bbl

332 EPR-radar  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 4:59:19pm

re: #326 Dark_Falcon

Thing is that if we were to intervene there might not be a ‘long run’.

I agree that no simple military intervention would be practical. However, I don’t think the rest of the world is completely incapable of making Russia pay if it annexes the Ukraine. If the rest of the world decides to treat Russia as a pariah state, that would have real costs to Russia.

333 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 4:59:31pm

A very good sorting out of Crimea here.

What is so dangerous about Crimea?

bbc.com

334 Killgore Trout  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 4:59:46pm

re: #322 darthstar

He looks like a reasonable fellow…

[Embedded content]

The Ayatollah of Perestroika!

335 Gus  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 4:59:59pm
336 Targetpractice  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 5:00:34pm

re: #334 Killgore Trout

The Ayatollah of Perestroika!

“I am gravely disappointed. Again you have made me unleash my dogs of war.”

337 Gus  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 5:01:37pm

Awaiting the pizza.

338 Amory Blaine  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 5:01:48pm

re: #322 darthstar

He looks like a reasonable fellow…

[Embedded content]

He has a sword applique on his beanie.

339 Gus  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 5:01:51pm
340 EPR-radar  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 5:02:36pm

re: #329 jvic

With respect to your second point, I tend to agree that Russia would view it as totally unthinkable for Sevastopol to fall into unfriendly (or even neutral hands).

My guess is that Russia is creating facts on the ground to support an eventual partition of the Ukraine so it can keep the Black Sea naval facilities.

Edited to add: In fact, I suspect that this issue is sufficiently compelling that perceived US strength/weakness would be totally irrelevant to Russian thinking on this point.

341 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 5:03:42pm

re: #335 Gus

[Embedded content]

That isn’t a good example of what’s happening in Ukraine.

342 Bubblehead II  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 5:04:18pm

re: #337 Gus

Awaiting the pizza.

Awaiting the pasta bowl here.

343 EPR-radar  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 5:05:31pm

re: #339 Gus

The great dicktater.

344 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 5:06:03pm

re: #330 Killgore Trout

That depends on the definition of wrong. Non-interventionists would consider the absence of war (or at least Western involvement) to be a good thing. That’s not such a good thing for the Ukrainians who just won their freedom only to have it taken away again.

They won their freedom? That’s a bizarre fucking way of putting it. They toppled corrupt leaders. You don’t get automatically get ‘freedom’ after that.

Morally speaking it’s hard for me to give the “anti-war” crowd the moral high ground because non involvement carries its own moral burden.

Who really cares about the high moral ground? It’s what’s actually best to do that matters, not some pretense of appearance. The morally correct action is the one with the best outcome. Nobody except the weirdos ever argue from a position that’s not the moral high ground.

Speaking of which, are you an interventionist or a non-interventionist? You were waffling around without actually laying down an opinion previously, care to do the shocking and answer a direct question?

345 Dr Lizardo  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 5:06:26pm

re: #340 EPR-radar

With respect to your second point, I tend to agree that Russia would view it as totally unthinkable for Sevastopol to fall into unfriendly (or even neutral hands).

My guess is that Russia is creating facts on the ground to support an eventual partition of the Ukraine so it can keep the Black Sea naval facilities.

Most likely, they want to create an independent (lol) Crimea via the ‘facts on the ground’ you referred to, which will then promptly vote to annex itself to Russia.

346 kirkspencer  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 5:06:45pm

re: #342 Bubblehead II

Awaiting the pasta bowl here.

Lean pork chop braised over caramelized carrots and onions, served with a side of new potatoes in a butter-dill sauce. Four freshly baked molasses cookies to finish it off.

347 BongCrodny  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 5:07:51pm

re: #334 Killgore Trout

The Ayatollah of Perestroika!

You missed the obvious one.

The Ayatollah of Sevastopol-ah!

348 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 5:08:51pm

re: #344 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

“Won their freedom” is fair in this case, Obdi. Euromaidan was fighting for freedom and at least for the moment we can say they won it. Whether that will continue to be true remains to be seen.

349 wrenchwench  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 5:09:50pm

re: #319 Dark_Falcon

It’s gonna take more T-34s than you can crew to win this day, Russian!

Image: vimoutiers-tiger-2.jpg

Image: PzKpfw.VI.Tiger.I_s-SS-PzAbt.101_on_maneuvers_Normandy-1944.jpg

Image: Tiger1-131-Bovington-2004.jpg

Image: latetig.jpg

I got a slideshow out of that set.

350 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 5:10:28pm

re: #306 Dark_Falcon

The M551 was a tank, it just wasn’t a very good one.

Image: 918331d8.jpg

It was good at pretending to be a russian tank at the NTC in California but that’s about it. The M60A2 wasn’t even that useful though i imagine the hulls got reused after they scrapped the turrets.

351 Decatur Deb  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 5:11:24pm

re: #348 Dark_Falcon

“Won their freedom” is fair in this case, Obdi. Euromaidan was fighting for freedom and at least for the moment we can say they won it. Whether that will continue to be true remains to be seen.

Euromaidan is not one thing. As always the idealisitic Jeffersonian kids we love get trapped, sometimes slaughtered, between the ‘realists’.

352 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 5:11:26pm

Ukraine accuses Russia of deploying troops in Crimea

bbc.com

“Ukraine’s acting President Oleksander Turchynov has accused Russia of deploying troops to Crimea and trying to provoke Kiev into “armed conflict”.

“In a TV address, he said Moscow wanted the new interim government to react to provocations so it could annex Crimea.

“Russia’s UN ambassador said any troop movements in Crimea were within an existing arrangement with Ukraine.”

353 Gus  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 5:11:31pm

re: #343 EPR-radar

The great dicktater.

Arizona potatoes. //

354 Aqua Obama  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 5:11:42pm

re: #348 Dark_Falcon

“Won their freedom” is fair in this case, Obdi. Euromaidan was fighting for freedom and at least for the moment we can say they won it. Whether that will continue to be true remains to be seen.

At least, freedom from an cadre of ultra-corrupt kleptocratic oligarchs. Too bad the economy is nuked in the short term.

355 CuriousLurker  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 5:11:50pm

re: #329 jvic

1.

Putin is an opportunist who will pounce on weakness. IMO he respects neither Bush nor Obama.

Had our elites not weakened the country (while doing very nicely for themselves…by doing very nicely for themselves, one might argue), Putin would have continued being Good Neighbor Vladi.

This x 1000. Putin gives me the willies.

356 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 5:12:04pm

re: #348 Dark_Falcon

“Won their freedom” is fair in this case, Obdi. Euromaidan was fighting for freedom and at least for the moment we can say they won it. Whether that will continue to be true remains to be seen.

It’s not fair, it’s eye-rolling pollyanna bullshit. Or freedom is pretty much meaningless. There’s nothing about a mass uprising that’s actually legitimate, real freedom, real validity comes afterwards, when you actually let people exercise the franchise freely and choose the government freely. Choosing ‘Fuck no, not these guys’ is not freedom. It’s a necessary first step but declaring victory at that point is George W. Bush level premature.

357 Bubblehead II  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 5:14:22pm

re: #346 kirkspencer

Lean pork chop braised over caramelized carrots and onions, served with a side of new potatoes in a butter-dill sauce. Four freshly baked molasses cookies to finish it off.

I’m being lazy tonight and letting someone else cook dinner and deliver it.

358 darthstar  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 5:14:30pm

One man’s freedom fighter is another man’s terrorist/insurgent.

359 Gus  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 5:14:31pm

Welp. Now that Ukraine has fallen to Russia we’ll need to start funding death squads and military dictatorships in Ukraine.

//

360 makeitstop  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 5:14:55pm

re: #346 kirkspencer

Lean pork chop braised over caramelized carrots and onions, served with a side of new potatoes in a butter-dill sauce. Four freshly baked molasses cookies to finish it off.

Corn chowder and biscuits over here, because it’s fucking cold.

361 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 5:15:04pm

re: #350 William Barnett-Lewis

It was good at pretending to be a russian tank at the NTC in California but that’s about it. The M60A2 wasn’t even that useful though i imagine the hulls got reused after they scrapped the turrets.

Yes, they were reused.

362 darthstar  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 5:16:53pm

Meanwhile, on the home front…

363 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 5:16:58pm
364 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 5:17:35pm

re: #362 darthstar

Meanwhile, on the home front…

[Embedded content]

SOS, different day.

365 Gus  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 5:18:06pm
366 dog philosopher  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 5:18:36pm

Tea Party Calls For A President In 2016 Who Will Ineffectually Threaten Russia With Psychotic Machismo Instead of Craven “Reasonableness”

cite how reagan brought down entire soviet union merely by making “tear down this wall” speak

367 Gus  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 5:18:58pm
368 Romantic Heretic  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 5:20:28pm
It would be a clear violence of Russia’s commitment to respect the independence and sovereignty and borders of Ukraine, and of international laws.

Unfortunately, the President previous to this one made it look like the US doesn’t give a damn about international law.

Obama has been working to restore the US commitment to those laws, but their will be lots of people who will no longer take it seriously. And some people might take that previous lack of commitment to excuse their own breaking of the law.

369 Gus  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 5:20:49pm
370 Decatur Deb  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 5:21:36pm

re: #366 dog philosopher

Tea Party Calls For A President In 2016 Who Will Ineffectually Threaten Russia With Psychotic Machismo Instead of Craven “Reasonableness”

cite how reagan brought down entire soviet union merely by making “tear down this wall” speak

The faint odor of death is starting to rise from the TP. The next phase is to make sure it’s hung tightly around the neck of opportunists like my TPGOP representative, so they can’t run from it.

371 dog philosopher  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 5:22:49pm

re: #369 Gus

Calm down, Los Angelenos. It’s not like rain deflates breast implants

i, for one, welcome our new water inexplicably falling out the the sky overlords

372 The War TARDIS  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 5:24:41pm

re: #367 Gus

I think Poland needs to revive Prometheism if they are to defend their brothers in Ukraine.

373 Killgore Trout  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 5:25:04pm

re: #347 BongCrodny

You missed the obvious one.

The Ayatollah of Sevastopol-ah!

Good one! I’ve been working on that joke all morning.

374 jvic  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 5:25:50pm

1. re: #316 CuriousLurker

I would more heartily agree if all the things we have done since 1914 had been consistently noble, but that just sounds like realpolitik.

Yep, that’s what it is.

Is it true that “the weak suffer what they must”? The Armenian genocide, the Holocaust, Bosnia, Darfur, etc. were all simply things that the weak suffered because they must, or because the strong are too important, too busy to intervene and prevent the deaths of tens or hundreds of thousands or even millions?

grumble ;-) I’d hoped to sneak off without addressing this big issue right now. I’ll do so fragmentarily.

I do not believe that humanity is condemned to a future of scorched-earth realpolitik. For one thing, a certain degree of domestic liberty and international cooperation is necessary (IMO) to maintain a postindustrial civilization. The Chinese ruling class is not permitting a degree of social mobility and internal dissent because they’re nice guys. (And thank goodness: otherwise we could be facing a North Korea with a billion people.)

However, realpolitik will not yield to modernity because of arguments that we’re all better off when we cooperate. If modernity is the path to an ever better future (which I hope), modernity, when challenged as it will be, must be ready and willing to prevail over realpolitik’s thuggery.

Afaic considerations of realpolitik will never go away because, well, they’re real. I believe that modernity will be challenged by thug-grade realpolitik for the foreseeable future; I hope that modernity will prevail; but I believe that modernity will have to bring its A-game to do so.

That’s what I mean by saying that the point is what we do.

2. Before logging off at least for a time, let me draw attention to my page concerning the Chinese government’s bigoted attack on Ambassador Gary Locke.

375 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 5:26:06pm

Thirteen aircraft with Russian troopers landed in Crimea: Kunitsyn

euromaidanpr.wordpress.com

“Another piece of the Russian military has arrived in Crimea. There are 150 people aboard each plane. This was reported by Serhiy Kunitsyn on the air with Crimean Tatar Channel ATR.

“Thirteen planes with troopers are landing in Hvardiyske, each of them has 150 people, count them,” said the Permanent Representative of the President of Ukraine in Crimea.

“Kunitsyn thinks there’s an armed intervention of Russia in the peninsula; the military took control of the entire “external perimeter.”

376 dog philosopher  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 5:27:00pm

US economic growth revised sharply downward

will this make interest rates go down next week?

377 thedopefishlives  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 5:27:46pm

Evening again Lizardim. Since the wild north country was not turned into a smoking crater, I assume that the world did not, in fact, end in my absence. How go things?

378 lawhawk  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 5:29:12pm

re: #376 dog philosopher

It wont raise them. That’s for sure. That’s part of the reason the markets went up today. The Fed policy of slowly increasing interest rates as the economy improves will be put on hold over the fact that the economy didn’t grow nearly as fast as previously indicated in the initial view.

379 CuriousLurker  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 5:29:17pm

re: #374 jvic

1.

Yep, that’s what it is.

grumble ;-) I’d hoped to sneak off without addressing this big issue right now. I’ll do so fragmentarily.

I do not believe that humanity is condemned to a future of scorched-earth realpolitik. For one thing, a certain degree of domestic liberty and international cooperation is necessary (IMO) to maintain a postindustrial civilization. The Chinese ruling class is not permitting a degree of social mobility and internal dissent because they’re nice guys. (And thank goodness: otherwise we could be facing a North Korea with a billion people.)

However, realpolitik will not yield to modernity because of arguments that we’re all better off when we cooperate. If modernity is the path to an ever better future (which I hope), modernity, when challenged as it will be, must be ready and willing to prevail over realpolitik’s thuggery.

Afaic considerations of realpolitik will never go away because, well, they’re real. I believe that modernity will be challenged by thug-grade realpolitik for the foreseeable future; I hope that modernity will prevail; but I believe that modernity will have to bring its A-game to do so.

That’s what I mean by saying that the point is what we do.

2. Before logging off at least for a time, let me draw attention to my page concerning the Chinese government’s bigoted attack on Ambassador David Locke.

Great answer(s), thanks. I’ll go check out your Page now…

380 Romantic Heretic  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 5:32:02pm

re: #67 Ian G.

Reagan had us kick the crap out of the mighty Grenadian army. That’s exactly the same thing as fighting the Russians in Crimea.

Took ‘em five days, on an island that takes a day to walk from one end to the other, against eight hundred Grenadian troops, plus a company of Cuban combat troops plus Cuban construction troops.

The plan was more complicated than Operation Overlord. Every branch of the US Armed Forces was involved, even the SAC. They gave out more medals than people who participated in it.

I’m afraid I regard Grenada displayed the major problems with US diplomacy and its armed services at that time. It was something done strictly for a rise in the polls.

381 Single-handed sailor  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 5:32:59pm

re: #371 dog philosopher

i, for one, welcome our new water inexplicably falling out the the sky overlords

We got 1.96” for the storm, 1.21” today, and a season total of 8.47”. We’re maybe 40% of normal and we only have 1 more month of “rainy” season.

382 Gus  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 5:35:28pm

WHY IS THERE NO WAR MONGERING ON LGF TONIGHT AFTER WHAT RUSSIA DID?!?!? WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE?!?!? DIDN’T YOU READ WHAT MONA HOLLAND SAID ABOUT YOU PEOPLE?

383 dog philosopher  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 5:36:45pm

re: #382 Gus

WHY IS THERE NO WAR MONGERING ON LGF TONIGHT AFTER WHAT RUSSIA DID?!?!? WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE?!?!? DIDN’T YOU READ WHAT MONA HOLLAND SAID ABOUT YOU PEOPLE?

i never monger on fridays

384 Gus  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 5:36:50pm

Interesting the contrast to which the GOP wants to respond to a war and how they respond to say, climate change.

385 The War TARDIS  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 5:37:14pm

re: #380 Romantic Heretic

Did we suffer any fatalities from that little circus?

386 thedopefishlives  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 5:37:38pm

re: #382 Gus

WHY IS THERE NO WAR MONGERING ON LGF TONIGHT AFTER WHAT RUSSIA DID?!?!? WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE?!?!? DIDN’T YOU READ WHAT MONA HOLLAND SAID ABOUT YOU PEOPLE?

Tea Partying for Dummies: or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb

387 GeneJockey  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 5:38:31pm

re: #383 dog philosopher

i never monger on fridays

Not even fish?

388 Gus  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 5:39:03pm
389 Stanley Sea  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 5:39:32pm

O/T but thank DOG. I made it home. Southern California in a big rain is something to behold. i.e. a shitshow.

390 thedopefishlives  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 5:40:09pm

re: #389 Stanley Sea

O/T but thank DOG. I made it home. Southern California in a big rain is something to behold. i.e. a shitshow.

On the flip side of the weather, I gather I-35 here in Minnesnowta was closed due to a 12-car pileup this afternoon. People are STUPID.

391 Stanley Sea  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 5:40:41pm

re: #365 Gus

Hey Gus, what’s peacenet’s take? I need to do a twitter search of course.

392 Charles Johnson  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 5:40:45pm

Huge pissing match going on between PandoDaily’s Paul Carr and First Look’s Marcy Wheeler!

twitter.com

393 thedopefishlives  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 5:41:07pm

re: #392 Charles Johnson

Huge pissing match going on between PandoDaily’s Paul Carr and First Look’s Marcy Wheeler!

twitter.com

There can be only one.

395 EPR-radar  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 5:41:54pm

re: #389 Stanley Sea

O/T but thank DOG. I made it home. Southern California in a big rain is something to behold. i.e. a shitshow.

I lived in the LA area for a few years, and still vividly remember seeing a six lane boulevard with about 6-8” of running water on it. It can get crazy there.

396 Gus  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 5:42:45pm

re: #391 Stanley Sea

Hey Gus, what’s peacenet’s take? I need to do a twitter search of course.

He hasn’t been saying much. Adam Serwer’s dad. Right?

397 Charles Johnson  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 5:43:36pm
398 Mattand  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 5:45:20pm

re: #394 dog philosopher

Tim Cook advises climate change deniers to get out of Apple stock

Can’t wait for long-time Apple user and climate denier Rush Limbaugh to weigh in on this.

On second thought, sure I can.

399 wrenchwench  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 5:45:24pm

This guy tweets about many interesting places, including Bahrain regularly.

400 b.d.  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 5:47:29pm

re: #392 Charles Johnson

Huge pissing match going on between PandoDaily’s Paul Carr and First Look’s Marcy Wheeler!

twitter.com

Marcy has learned well from Greenwald, surprised she hasn’t blocked Paul yet.

401 wrenchwench  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 5:48:58pm

San Bernardino, CA:


Car was parked. Still is.

402 CuriousLurker  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 5:49:44pm

Heh.

403 freetoken  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 5:51:33pm

re: #402 CuriousLurker

THE ANTI-TRINITY!!

404 b.d.  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 5:52:30pm

Ooooops:

405 Stanley Sea  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 5:52:30pm

re: #396 Gus

He hasn’t been saying much. Adam Serwer’s dad. Right?

Yeah. Thanks.

406 Gus  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 5:52:43pm
407 TedStriker  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 5:53:35pm

re: #394 dog philosopher

Tim Cook advises climate change deniers to get out of Apple stock

re: #398 Mattand

Can’t wait for long-time Apple user and climate denier Rush Limbaugh to weigh in on this.

On second thought, sure I can.

With this, I wonder when Rush and the rest of the RWNjs are going to start harping on the fact that Tim Cook is gay, just to tie all of their liberal tropes together.

408 lawhawk  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 5:54:00pm

re: #406 Gus

More like skeeters circling a bug zapper. Only they don’t know it.

409 Charles Johnson  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 5:54:18pm
410 freetoken  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 5:55:49pm

re: #335 Gus

[Embedded content]

Yeah, but… our team is better than their team.

411 CuriousLurker  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 5:56:57pm

re: #409 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

The War of the Roses.

412 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 5:57:38pm

re: #397 Charles Johnson

Awesome!

But it’s not as simple as Cook would like it to be.

Not if you ask the folks around here where Apple now owns hundreds of acres of land used in their “green” initiative using solar energy for their data center and employing only 50 people. Over 300 acres dedicated solely to Apple—none serving the people of the area.

wired.com

413 Gus  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 5:58:09pm
414 b_sharp  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 5:58:38pm

re: #397 Charles Johnson

Awesome!

I may have to start liking Apple products.

415 Stanley Sea  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 6:01:07pm

re: #413 Gus

[Embedded content]

The Oscars gift bags are worth 85K. I think only the “talent” receives them though.

416 wrenchwench  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 6:02:18pm

re: #415 Stanley Sea

The Oscars gift bags are worth 85K. I think only the “talent” receives them though.

Scahill said his is going to Ebay. In other words, he’s giving it to his boss.

417 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 6:03:35pm

re: #415 Stanley Sea

The Oscars gift bags are worth 85K. I think only the “talent” receives them though.

He’ll get one. He has a film, “Dirty Wars”, nominated in the doc category.

418 b.d.  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 6:03:37pm

firstlook media went from being a renegade to being just like the rest of them in record time.

419 CuriousLurker  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 6:04:45pm

Okay, one last negativity antidote, then I’m outta here. Nitey-nite, all:

420 Stanley Sea  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 6:06:01pm

re: #416 wrenchwench

Scahill said his is going to Ebay. In other words, he’s giving it to his boss.

ticket holders get the swag? holy shit. They could feed all the hungry in LA for a year on this bullshit.

The rich get richer

421 wrenchwench  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 6:06:53pm

re: #420 Stanley Sea

ticket holders get the swag? holy shit. They could feed all the hungry in LA for a year on this bullshit.

The rich get richer

See JAH’s #417.

422 Killgore Trout  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 6:08:49pm
423 thedopefishlives  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 6:11:22pm

re: #415 Stanley Sea

The Oscars gift bags are worth 85K. I think only the “talent” receives them though.

Jesus. That’s over a year and a half’s gross salary.

424 Floral Giraffe  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 6:12:42pm

re: #420 Stanley Sea

Meh, swag is taxable income these days!

425 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 6:19:38pm

re: #423 thedopefishlives

Jesus. That’s over a year and a half’s gross salary.

Or as Mitt Romney calls it, “pocket change”.

426 Stanley Sea  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 6:21:02pm

re: #424 Floral Giraffe

Meh, swag is taxable income these days!

Good.

427 thedopefishlives  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 6:23:23pm

re: #425 Dark_Falcon

Or as Mitt Romney calls it, “pocket change”.

Whatever happened to guys like my dad, who started with a degree and some pocket lint and scrimped and saved their way to millionaire-hood?

428 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 6:23:33pm

re: #422 Killgore Trout

you should know that the Oscar Swag Bag has something Killgore-oriented this year.

And they’ve got something for my dad as well.

429 sagehen  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 6:59:27pm

re: #415 Stanley Sea

The Oscars gift bags are worth 85K. I think only the “talent” receives them though.

At least half of that is resort trips; the Turks & Caycos tourism board gets a lot of value out of tabloid photos of stars cavorting on their beach.

430 chadu  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 7:29:37pm

re: #203 goddamnedfrank

The question is can Russia stand up to Ukraine’s elite adventuring party of epic level LARPers:

Paladin
Cleric
Wizard
Thief
Druid

431 chadu  Fri, Feb 28, 2014 7:51:46pm

re: #383 dog philosopher

i never monger on fridays

Dog Phil don’t monger on shabbos.


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