In Which Glenn Greenwald Is Invited to the Alex Jones Show (At Last)

The convergence of the worst people in the US
Weird • Views: 24,358

Today Glenn Greenwald responds to that article on Pierre Omidyar’s financial support for Ukrainian dissidents with a frankly amazing statement: On the Meaning of Journalistic Independence - the Intercept.

Despite its being publicly disclosed, I was not previously aware that the Omidyar Network donated to this Ukrainian group. That’s because, prior to creating The Intercept with Laura Poitras and Jermey [sic] Scahill, I did not research Omidyar’s political views or donations.

Yes, you read that right. Greenwald claims he’s taking $250 million in funding from someone he never even researched.

While you try to swallow that one, here’s another interesting development from the Mighty Greenwald’s Twitter timeline:

There it is — the formal invitation to appear on the most insane conspiracy peddler in America’s show! I’ve been expecting this convergence for quite a while. But contrary to Paul Joseph Watson’s claim, it wouldn’t be a “whole new audience.” Just check out the comments for Greenwald’s post linked above — they’re already sharing an audience of batshit paranoid conspiracy loons.

Will Greenwald finally hook up with Alex Jones to usher in a brave new era of journalism? It’s the logical next step for Greenwald, after appearing on the Ron Paul webcast and with Eric Bolling on Fox News.

Stay tuned for the next thrilling episode in the adventures of Glenn Greenwald, Future of Journalism.

Jump to bottom

217 comments
1 HappyWarrior  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 10:21:55am

Oh this will be fun.

2 b.d.  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 10:22:21am

Quick Paul! Tell Glenn he can have complete journalistic independence on your show so he won’t look into your glorious show’s history.

3 Dr Lizardo  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 10:22:56am

God help us. The dudebro/wingnut/batshit insane convergence is upon us.

4 b.d.  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 10:23:58am

The streams are close to being crossed

5 Charles Johnson  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 10:24:40am
6 Targetpractice  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 10:24:52am

That much stupid in close proximity might very well rip a hole in the very fabric of reality.

7 b.d.  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 10:27:05am

hahahahahaha

8 petesh  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 10:27:07am

I predicted on the last thread that “GG will find a weasel way of criticizing the big O without actually pissing him off.” Not a bad effort on his part. I award him 4.5 weasels, mostly for the insinuation of criticism without the actual content, but docked half a weasel for the obvious terminological inexactitude.

9 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 10:29:25am

BBL

10 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 10:30:15am

Now he has to somehow tie together Bilderberg, chemtrails, and Area 51 to the NSA.

11 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 10:30:32am

Basically, Greenwald’s response is that he doesn’t really give a shit who he associates with as long as it gets his voice heard.

Alex Jones heard that loud and clear.

12 Skip Intro  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 10:31:23am

Hey, man, money’s money. WTF do I care where it comes from? The only thing that matters is that it comes to me.

13 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 10:32:52am
14 b.d.  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 10:33:34am

re: #12 Skip Intro

[Embedded content]

Hey, man, money’s money. WTF do I care where it comes from? The only thing that matters is that it comes to me.

So NSACorp. could have gone in there with a big fat check and Glenn would have snatched it up, made his DudeBro superfriends quit their jobs and join him and never ask ONE question?

15 Charles Johnson  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 10:34:03am
16 chadu  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 10:35:52am
Yes, you read that right. Greenwald claims that he’s taking $250 million in funding from someone he has never even researched.

17 b.d.  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 10:38:41am

GLENN IS A JOURNALIST, NOT A RESEARCHER!!!!

18 Dr Lizardo  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 10:39:15am

re: #10 NJDhockeyfan

Now he has to somehow tie together Bilderberg, chemtrails, and Area 51 to the NSA.

Not hard to do, actually.

The NSA, as we all know, was created by Harry Truman (who also created MJ12 [Majestic]) as a coverup for an ongoing extraterrestrial invasion. This was done at the behest of the Bilderbergs and the Council of Foreign Relations as well as the Trilateral Commission; the three aforementioned are in league with the ET invaders. Chemtrails are widely used in an attempt to alter the human DNA structure in order to make our species more compatible for breeding purposes with the invaders.

Despite its existence as a coverup org, the NSA does have some functions; chiefly, they are responsible for chemtrail use and administration, as well as being behind HAARP; HAARP is used to “terraform” our planet in order to make it more like home from the invaders. Additionally, there metadata collection is expressly for the purpose of neutralizing those who may be opposed to the invasion, and to ensure a pliant population through cooperation between the NSA, the Bilderbers, the CFR and the Trilateral Commission and their ownership of the American media through various well-known, publicly traded corporations that they use as fronts.

WHEEEEEEE!!!!!

19 Charles Johnson  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 10:40:34am
20 wrenchwench  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 10:41:55am

How could he take a man at his word, if he knows nothing of the man? How can Glenn know he has full journalistic independence if he doesn’t know anything about his funding source?

It’s not like the research involved would be odious. I’ve seen justanotherhuman and Gus come up with more than Glenn knows about Omidyar in three minutes.

21 jaunte  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 10:44:16am

re: #20 wrenchwench

Despite GG’s protestations, he’s not a journalist.

22 b.d.  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 10:44:40am

re: #19 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

or did they!?!?!?!?!?!?

//

23 Eventual Carrion  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 10:44:42am

re: #18 Dr Lizardo

Not hard to do, actually.

You do understand that since you have let this become public you will have to be sent back to �%(*&^% to be punished and reprogrammed.

24 Dr Lizardo  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 10:45:23am

re: #23 Eventual Carrion

You do understand that since you have let this become public you will have to be sent back to ‘%(*&^% to be punished and reprogrammed.

Huzzah! It’s off to the FEMA camp for me!!!

25 Jay in Oregon  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 10:45:56am


“The anti-war movement […] already backing Moscow in their invasion of Ukraine.”

Um… how exactly does that work?

26 petesh  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 10:47:09am

re: #20 wrenchwench
He looked the man in the eye, and found him to be very straightforward and trustworthy.

27 Charles Johnson  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 10:47:16am
28 Jay in Oregon  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 10:48:14am


He makes it sound like Glenn would have a problem working for a neo-Nazi.

29 Killgore Trout  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 10:49:43am

re: #25 Jay in Oregon

[Embedded content]


“The anti-war movement […] already backing Moscow in their invasion of Ukraine.”

Um… how exactly does that work?

“Anti-war” is usually best not taken literally. It’s often just opposition to American or European involvement.

30 GlutenFreeJesus  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 10:51:15am

So, about that knife attack in China… I’m already seeing gun nut “friends” on FB going on about how this proves everyone should have guns. Well, if those terrorists had guns, there’d be 10x more the number of dead.

31 wrenchwench  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 10:51:39am

re: #26 petesh

He looked the man in the eye bank account, and found him to be very straightforward and trustworthy.

FTFY

32 Killgore Trout  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 10:52:11am

Stance not changed
US, Russian defense chiefs talk over Ukraine turmoil

Asked about rumors some US military units had been on alert over turmoil in the Crimean peninsula, the official said the US focus was on diplomatic options. There was no change in the US military’s stance, said the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity.

33 Ryan King  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 10:52:32am

re: #26 petesh

He looked the man in the eye, and found him to be very straightforward and trustworthy.

He’s a good man. And very thorough.

34 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 10:53:04am

re: #32 Killgore Trout

Say, what do you think the US’s stance should be on this, Killgore? You’ve had a ton to say on the issue, yet you’ve somehow managed to avoid actually giving an opinion. It’s kooky!

35 Jay in Oregon  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 10:54:34am

re: #29 Killgore Trout

Better innocent civilians are killed by Russian mobile artillery than a Predator, amirite?

36 Killgore Trout  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 10:54:41am

In northeast Ukraine, pro-Maidan occupiers are routed by counter-demonstrators (with pics)

Anger spilled onto the streets in the eastern city of Kharkiv on Saturday as protesters stormed the regional government headquarters, ending the six-day occupation of the building by Ukrainian nationalist activists.

Police stood by as protesters swarmed into the building, beating their opponents and taking prisoners before hoisting Russian and Ukrainian flags at the front door.

37 Killgore Trout  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 10:55:16am

re: #35 Jay in Oregon

Better innocent civilians are killed by Russian mobile artillery than a Predator, amirite?

More or less.

38 thedopefishlives  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 10:57:12am

re: #35 Jay in Oregon

Better innocent civilians are killed by Russian mobile artillery than a Predator, amirite?

Insert Gus’s Photoshop from last night of Obama’s heckler-face here.

39 Killgore Trout  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 10:58:36am

I miss public access to the old Daily Life news pics.

40 Killgore Trout  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 10:59:23am

gettyimages.com

Excuse me sir, your flag is outdated.

41 GlutenFreeJesus  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 11:01:40am

re: #32 Killgore Trout

Stance not changed
US, Russian defense chiefs talk over Ukraine turmoil

Not publically.

42 Targetpractice  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 11:03:01am

re: #40 Killgore Trout

gettyimages.com

Excuse me sir, your flag is outdated.

Yet in light of today’s events oddly appropriate.

Guy doesn’t look enough to have actually lived under Soviet rule. Probably got raised on fairy tales about how things were so great before the wall fell.

43 blueraven  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 11:04:13am

Well Putin has certainly rattled some cages. Pitted hawks and partisans against Obama (although that was a gimme)

This looks like what he did in Georgia…daring a response, which Saakashvili provided.

But Ukraine is in no position right now and should remain calm.Let this play out a bit. It seems really stupid for Putin to go “all in” to the Ukraine.

He would be inviting insurgency for years to come, riling up the protests inside Russia as well as more trouble with Chechnya. Western sanctions would surely come.

How is this a good move for Russia?

44 jonhendry  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 11:06:15am

I wonder if there’ll be any response to Russia, with regards to the Paralympics, which start on the 7th in Sochi.

45 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 11:06:38am

Greenwalds new friend…

Conspiracy Theorist Alex Jones Goes Berserk During BBC Show

Yeah, they fit together nicely.

46 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 11:08:04am

re: #44 jonhendry

I wonder if there’ll be any response to Russia, with regards to the Paralympics, which start on the 7th in Sochi.

They said they are watching the developments. I have a feeling it will get cancelled and they will leave. That would be the right thing to do.. They could reschedule it somewhere else.

47 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 11:08:49am

re: #45 NJDhockeyfan

At the moment, they’re definitely not friends. This is Alex Jones’s guy calling out Greenwald and criticizing him.

48 Gus  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 11:09:01am
49 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 11:09:33am
50 Gus  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 11:10:16am

Forget Ukraine and Crimea though. Someone on Twitter Tweeted something offensive! //

51 petesh  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 11:11:17am

re: #33 Ryan King
Deeply committed to his country capital and the best interests of his country capital.
I suppose I should have linked the original source in case anyone forgot.

52 Gus  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 11:11:52am

re: #49 NJDhockeyfan

[Embedded content]

Nothing a drum circle and a mic check can’t fix. //

53 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 11:12:18am

And this

54 Charles Johnson  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 11:13:51am

There’s a lot of misinformation on Twitter about Crimea. I wouldn’t trust these reports until they’re confirmed by a reputable source.

55 wrenchwench  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 11:14:22am


That’s often followed by a strongly worded letter.

56 Gus  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 11:17:09am

re: #55 wrenchwench

[Embedded content]

That’s often followed by a strongly worded letter.

This is getting ridiculous. I mean this stereotype of saying they’re “deeply concerned” is really pathetic at this point.

57 thedopefishlives  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 11:17:31am

re: #54 Charles Johnson

There’s a lot of misinformation on Twitter about Crimea. I wouldn’t trust these reports until they’re confirmed by a reputable source.

Twitter is a double-edged sword; often the best source for breaking news, often the best source for false information.

58 b_sharp  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 11:17:37am

re: #18 Dr Lizardo

Not hard to do, actually.

The NSA, as we all know, was created by Harry Truman (who also created MJ12 [Majestic]) as a coverup for an ongoing extraterrestrial invasion. This was done at the behest of the Bilderbergs and the Council of Foreign Relations as well as the Trilateral Commission; the three aforementioned are in league with the ET invaders. Chemtrails are widely used in an attempt to alter the human DNA structure in order to make our species more compatible for breeding purposes with the invaders.

Despite its existence as a coverup org, the NSA does have some functions; chiefly, they are responsible for chemtrail use and administration, as well as being behind HAARP; HAARP is used to “terraform” our planet in order to make it more like home from the invaders. Additionally, there metadata collection is expressly for the purpose of neutralizing those who may be opposed to the invasion, and to ensure a pliant population through cooperation between the NSA, the Bilderbers, the CFR and the Trilateral Commission and their ownership of the American media through various well-known, publicly traded corporations that they use as fronts.

WHEEEEEEE!!!!!

I didn’t see J. Bieber mentioned in there. What’s up with that?

59 Gus  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 11:17:47am
60 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 11:18:45am

re: #56 Gus

This is getting ridiculous. I mean this stereotype of saying they’re “deeply concerned” is really pathetic at this point.

What would you rather have them do?

61 Charles Johnson  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 11:18:50am

re: #59 Gus

I loled.

62 Dr Lizardo  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 11:19:33am

re: #58 b_sharp

I didn’t see J. Bieber mentioned in there. What’s up with that?

DAMMIT! I knew I forgot something!!

63 Gus  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 11:19:47am

re: #60 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

What would you rather have them do?

For one. Stop saying, “deeply concerned.”

64 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 11:21:57am

re: #63 Gus

For one. Stop saying, “deeply concerned.”

Okay. What about for two? Say they’ve stopped saying they’re deeply concerned, what would you like them to do or say about the situation?

65 Charles Johnson  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 11:23:47am

re: #64 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

My main concern right now is that I really don’t know exactly what the situation is. But no doubt there’s serious discussion going on at the White House.

66 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 11:25:39am

re: #65 Charles Johnson

My main concern right now is that I really don’t know exactly what the situation is. But no doubt there’s serious discussion going on at the White House.

Yeah, part of the baffling thing about this is people acting as though because these public statements are being made that that amounts to the sum total that’s being done.

67 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 11:31:46am

Latvia is joining Lithuania now…


I don’t think there is much they can do since Ukraine is not a member of NATO, correct?

68 Dr Lizardo  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 11:31:55am

re: #66 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

Yeah, part of the baffling thing about this is people acting as though because these public statements are being made that that amounts to the sum total that’s being done.

I have no doubt that a good deal is happening behind the scenes. Some of it likely involving a good deal of profanity.

69 thedopefishlives  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 11:32:53am

re: #68 Dr Lizardo

I have no doubt that a good deal is happening behind the scenes. Some of it likely involving a good deal of profanity.

I can only imagine the colorful invectives that the President let forth when Putin’s words hit the airwaves.

70 Killgore Trout  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 11:38:38am

re: #50 Gus

Forget Ukraine and Crimea though. Someone on Twitter Tweeted something offensive! //

Emergency meeting of the Derp Council!

71 Killgore Trout  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 11:39:44am

re: #67 NJDhockeyfan

Latvia is joining Lithuania now…

[Embedded content]


I don’t think there is much they can do since Ukraine is not a member of NATO, correct?

I think Poland is in on that too. I think the potential instability on their borders technically allows them to call for a meeting.

72 wrenchwench  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 11:41:28am

Chief Foreign Affairs Correspondent for TIME


Then he ‘splains it, in case anybody thought it wasn’t cogent news analysis.


Whereas I’d interpret the juxtaposition as: One is a modern, technologically astute regular guy, the other is a weirdo with a strong inclination to the past.

73 Killgore Trout  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 11:43:00am

Alert: The meeting outbreak continues!


Top officials at White House meeting on Ukraine

The U.S. is reviewing Russia’s military moves in Ukraine and trying to figure out how to respond.

74 Varek Raith  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 11:44:36am

re: #73 Killgore Trout

You’d rather have us bombing Russian forces in Crimea, right?
Because, you seem to be complaining about everything else.

75 A Mom Anon  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 11:44:37am

re: #72 wrenchwench

This sort of “who is more manly?” thing gets on my last fucking nerve. Like every fucking thing is a dick measuring contest and nothing else matters.

Our media sucks the same number of dicks they feel the need to measure all the damned time.

76 Killgore Trout  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 11:45:27am

re: #72 wrenchwench

Chief Foreign Affairs Correspondent for TIME

[Embedded content]


Whereas I’d interpret the juxtaposition as: One is a modern, technologically astute regular guy, the other is a weirdo with a strong inclination to the past.

I think the media did the White House a disservice with the dramatic headlines on Obama’s statement yesterday. I don’t think his speech indicate “tough talk” or challenges. The warnings were tepid, indicating action was unlikely, but the media spun it as an epic looming showdown.

77 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 11:45:30am

Heh.

78 AntonSirius  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 11:47:17am

re: #72 wrenchwench

79 Varek Raith  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 11:48:07am

I know it sucks to hear this, for Americans especially, but sometimes there isn’t a god-damned thing we can do about certain situations.

80 Varek Raith  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 11:50:55am

re: #78 AntonSirius

[Embedded content]

MANBOOBS.

81 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 11:50:57am

re: #79 Varek Raith

I know it sucks to hear this, for Americans especially, but sometimes there isn’t a god-damned thing we can do about certain situations.

And when there is, not normally isn’t something dramatic that happens overnight and you can make clear, decisive speeches about while bald eagles swoop behind you.

82 GlutenFreeJesus  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 11:52:03am

re: #72 wrenchwench

Chief Foreign Affairs Correspondent for TIME

[Embedded content]


Whereas I’d interpret the juxtaposition as: One is a modern, technologically astute regular guy, the other is a weirdo with a strong inclination to the past.

We tried “strength/swagger/ego” in 2003.

83 ObserverArt  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 11:52:50am

Got one question…well actually a lot of questions (especially today)…but one for now.

Who and what else has Glenn Greenwald failed to thoroughly check in his zeal to be the world’s greatest journalist (that doesn’t check things out)?

If his concern for power (economic and/or reputation) is his motivation I am thinking he may just overlook a lot of things to get what he wants.

An example? Oh, I don’t know…maybe like a dude by the name of Snowden? How much did Glenn research all of Snowden’s background as far as was he ever a legit whistleblower. Or did he gloss over Snowden’s character and maybe even connections to outsiders seeing only that big story?

We all thought Greenwald was using and abusing Snowden. Maybe all along Snowden was using Greenwald. And if Snowden does turn out to be working with someone else it would make even more sense.

Very curious.

84 Dr Lizardo  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 11:54:59am

re: #81 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

And when there is, not normally isn’t something dramatic that happens overnight and you can make clear, decisive speeches about while bald eagles swoop behind you.

Don’t forget the stirring music playing in the background! Can’t make a barnburner of a speech with freakin’ bald eagles perched on your shoulders without some stirring music!

(Dammit….now I’ve conjured up a mental image of Sarah Palin doing something like that…..yeech).

85 Political Atheist  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 11:55:52am

Good timing Smithsonian channel-Russian Revolution In Color

86 Charles Johnson  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 11:56:12am
87 Killgore Trout  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 11:56:17am

re: #84 Dr Lizardo

Don’t forget the stirring music playing in the background! Can’t make a barnburner of a speech with freakin’ bald eagles perched on your shoulders without some stirring music!

(Dammit….now I’ve conjured up a mental image of Sarah Palin doing something like that…..yeech).

…in an American flag jumpsuit!

88 Belafon  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 11:56:18am

re: #71 Killgore Trout

Just doing some research on that. When Ukraine gave up it’s nuclear weapons - did you know in 1991 when the Soviet Union collapsed, Ukraine was the third largest nuclear power, with more weapons than China, France, and Great Britain combined - the US, Russia, and other countries agreed that if a nuclear power threatened it, the matter would be taken to the security council.

89 Killgore Trout  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 11:57:51am

re: #88 Belafon

Interesting. I never would have guessed that.

90 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 11:59:29am
91 Killgore Trout  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 12:01:00pm

Hagel calling
theguardian.com

Hagel spoke on Saturday with his Russian counterpart, Sergei Shoigu, a US official told Reuters. Asked about rumours that some US military units had been on alert over turmoil in the Crimean peninsula, the official said the US focus was on diplomatic options. There was no change in the US military’s stance, said the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity.

The official gave no details of Hagel’s conversation with Shoigu.

it seems the purpose of the call might have been just to reassure the Russians that we won’t be sending in the cavalry.

92 Killgore Trout  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 12:01:49pm

re: #90 NJDhockeyfan

[Embedded content]

Only the chick on the left seems to be paying attention.

93 Stanley Sea  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 12:02:18pm
94 thedopefishlives  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 12:02:25pm

re: #91 Killgore Trout

Hagel calling
theguardian.com

it seems the purpose of the call might have been just to reassure the Russians that we won’t be sending in the cavalry.

You are so utterly defeatist about this whole thing. What’s eating you?

95 Belafon  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 12:02:41pm

re: #79 Varek Raith

But what if we agreed to do something, even if the first agreement is make a strongly worded statement, act concerned, and discuss with the world your options?

96 122 Year Old Obama  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 12:04:39pm

Some people really seem to need their war porn fix.

97 Killgore Trout  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 12:05:55pm

re: #94 thedopefishlives

You are so utterly defeatist about this whole thing. What’s eating you?

I have some hope that Putin may only break off the chunks of Ukraine he wants and leave the rest. I haven’t seen much of a plan to stop him yet.

98 Dr Lizardo  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 12:06:06pm

re: #87 Killgore Trout

…in an American flag jumpsuit!

Great. Another thing to add to that awful mental image.

99 Lidane  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 12:09:13pm

re: #79 Varek Raith

I know it sucks to hear this, for Americans especially, but sometimes there isn’t a god-damned thing we can do about certain situations.

Seriously. What the fuck are we expected to do here? Invade Moscow to stop Putin? Put boots on the ground in Crimea to fight the Russians? There are times when a military response from us would be a bad fucking idea, and this is one of them.

This isn’t a situation that has to be handled with guns. It needs finesse. We can’t just take it head on.

100 Bear  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 12:10:44pm

Wonder just what this might mean. news.yahoo.com

101 Interesting Times  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 12:11:37pm

re: #99 Lidane

This isn’t a situation that has to be handled with finesse. We can’t just take it head on.

I’m assuming you meant “is” there, and yes, you’re right.

102 Lidane  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 12:12:25pm

re: #101 Interesting Times

I’m assuming you meant “is” there, and yes, you’re right.

Yeah, I had three things going on at once and got incoherent there. I fixed it. :)

103 Political Atheist  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 12:12:46pm

Is it just me or is the breathless warhawk tone out of CNN (and others) really annoying and disturbing? This is a little too serious for story of the week click and ratings pimpage.

104 Killgore Trout  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 12:12:47pm

UN attempts infiltration into Crimea
washingtonpost.com

Robert Serry, a senior U.N. official whom Ban dispatched to Ukraine on a fact-finding mission earlier in the week, said he was unable to comply with U.N. instructions to travel to Crimea. After getting in touch with the pro-Russian Crimean government, Serry said in a statement, he had “come to the conclusion that a visit to Crimea today is not possible.”

There are rumors that a strong condemnation may be brewing

As Security Council ambassadors moved behind closed doors at mid-afternoon, officials there said they anticipated the vast majority of the 15-member body would agree to a strong condemnation of Putin’s request, and the Russian parliament’s agreement, to send troops to Crimea.

After Friday’s council meeting, Russian Amb. Vitaly Churkin said his government was opposed to any “imposed mediation” over Crimea.

On the bright side, Moday’s NATO meeting will be extraordinary

In Brussels, European Union Foreign Policy chief Catherine Ashton called for an “extraordinary” meeting of the EU’s foreign affairs council Monday on Ukraine.

105 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 12:15:45pm

re: #97 Killgore Trout

I have some hope that Putin may only break off the chunks of Ukraine he wants and leave the rest. I haven’t seen much of a plan to stop him yet.

And what do you think should be being done to stop him, Killgore?

(Nth time’s the charm.)

106 ObserverArt  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 12:19:49pm

re: #99 Lidane

Seriously. What the fuck are we expected to do here? Invade Moscow to stop Putin? Put boots on the ground in Crimea to fight the Russians? There are times when a military response from us would be a bad fucking idea, and this is one of them.

This isn’t a situation that has to be handled with finesse. We can’t just take it head on.

I am sure there is more than one ‘merican sitting around saying Obama is being weak because a jet strike to turn a couple Crimean airports “to glass” hasn’t happened yet. You know, just to send a little message like they do in the movies.

And there are probably other ‘mericans that are on the ‘net looking for the latest report on that lack of Obama balls that tells them this is just like everything else.

The other day some of us were marveling at the real-time protests that happened in Ukraine with Euromaiden and how the ‘net made it all immediate.

Well, the other side of immediate is wanting immediate everything. Not being privy to all the meetings going on discussing Russia and their Ukraine position immediately makes it difficult for it to be fact checked to see how much more Obama is going to fuck things up…before he fucks things up.

Ahhh…real time and the internet. I wonder what they are posting in Russia’s political blogs and forums?

107 wrenchwench  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 12:19:55pm
108 Political Atheist  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 12:21:34pm

re: #97 Killgore Trout

I haven’t seen much of a plan to stop him yet.

SRSLY?
To be fair that would be an epic exposure. Contrary to Dudebro doctrine, we need secrets and room to negotiate in those duplicitous diplomatic ways. That’s how real problems get solved.

109 makeitstop  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 12:21:42pm

re: #97 Killgore Trout

I have some hope that Putin may only break off the chunks of Ukraine he wants and leave the rest. I haven’t seen much of a plan to stop him yet.

And it’s been nearly a whole goddamned day already.

//

110 ObserverArt  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 12:22:02pm

re: #105 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

And what do you think should be being done to stop him, Killgore?

(Nth time’s the charm.)

Are you chasing an answer to a question from thread to thread??? I got some stern condemnations about that you know.

///

111 bubba zanetti  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 12:23:17pm

re: #107 wrenchwench

112 jaunte  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 12:23:31pm

Is is really surprising that blog commenters aren’t the first in a crisis to know what the plan is?

113 Killgore Trout  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 12:24:50pm

It’s early but this might be headline of the day…
WW III Imminent? Doctors Urge Preparedness

Signals from Washington are decidedly mixed. In a Feb 28 statement, Barack Obama stated: “The United States will stand with the international community in affirming that there will be costs for any military intervention in Ukraine.” Less than 30 minutes later, he declared a “happy hour” at a Democratic National Committee fundraiser and joked about a heckler’s question concerning his “plans for a nuclear war with Russia.”

“Is the situation like the Cuban missile crisis, without the public awareness?” asks Physicians for Civil Defense president Jane M. Orient, M.D.

In a world loaded with nuclear weapons in the hands of many actors, including Russia, with both sophisticated and crude delivery systems, the only warning of a nuclear event could be a bright flash or sudden loss of power (and your internet connection).

At a Feb 22 meeting sponsored by the Medical Reserve Corps of Southern Arizona (MRCSA), attendees were reminded that in such a crisis “what you have is ALL you will have.”

114 b_sharp  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 12:25:36pm

re: #99 Lidane

Seriously. What the fuck are we expected to do here? Invade Moscow to stop Putin? Put boots on the ground in Crimea to fight the Russians? There are times when a military response from us would be a bad fucking idea, and this is one of them.

This isn’t a situation that has to be handled with guns. It needs finesse. We can’t just take it head on.

Nah, the US needs to act like a silverback gorilla by pounding its figurative chest, grunting and flashing pearly white canine teeth.

115 makeitstop  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 12:26:00pm

re: #106 ObserverArt

I am sure there is more than one ‘merican sitting around saying Obama is being weak because a jet strike to turn a couple Crimean airports “to glass” hasn’t happened yet. You know, just to send a little message like they do in the movies.

And there are probably other ‘mericans that are on the ‘net looking for the latest report on that lack of Obama balls that tells them this is just like everything else.

It’s infuriating as hell. I asked the same question to about a half dozen Facebook wingnuts this morning - ‘What would you have us do, exactly?’

All I got back was vagueness about how Obama wasn’t ‘following through’ and how a manly man like Reagan would never have let this happen.

It would seem that their solution to this whole thing is to complain about Obama not doing…something.

116 Interesting Times  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 12:26:11pm

re: #112 jaunte

Is is really surprising that blog commenters aren’t the first in a crisis to know what the plan is?

Wouldn’t that be an awesome plot for a satirical dystopia, though? Military/gov official can’t decide on a course of action, so goes rogue and picks a random blog comment to use as strategy o_O

117 jonhendry  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 12:28:34pm

re: #56 Gus

“This is getting ridiculous. I mean this stereotype of saying they’re “deeply concerned” is really pathetic at this point.”

Well, it’s not like they can just up and send SHIELD in. The UN moves slowly, so about all they can do is issue statements until members approve some kind of action.

Which, considering Russia has a veto, is extremely unlikely.

118 Lidane  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 12:29:10pm

re: #115 makeitstop

It’s infuriating as hell. I asked the same question to about a half dozen Facebook wingnuts this morning - ‘What would you have us do, exactly?’

All I got back was vagueness about how Obama wasn’t ‘following through’ and how a manly man like Reagan would never have let this happen.

It would seem that their solution to this whole thing is to complain about Obama not doing…something.

I’ve seen complaints from wingnuts about how we’re not using our bully pulpit.

WTF? Using a bully pulpit means that you’re giving ultimatums. These dipshits seem to forget that the Russians have nukes too. We can’t just waltz in guns blazing. We need a cool head and a reasoned response.

119 ObserverArt  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 12:30:28pm

re: #116 Interesting Times

Wouldn’t that be an awesome plot for a satirical dystopia, though? Military/gov official can’t decide on a course of action, so goes rogue and picks a random blog comment to use as strategy o_O

Hey now…don’t be giving Obama, Kerry and Hagel any ideas. You know they are scrambling and dreadfully behind on a response.

///

120 thedopefishlives  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 12:31:14pm

re: #118 Lidane

I’ve seen complaints from wingnuts about how we’re not using our bully pulpit.

WTF? Using a bully pulpit means that you’re giving ultimatums. These dipshits seem to forget that the Russians have nukes too. We can’t just waltz in guns blazing. We need a cool head and a reasoned response.

The bully pulpit means only that the US media stops everything for the President of the United States. The same is not, however, true of the rest of the world.

121 Killgore Trout  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 12:32:34pm

re: #103 Political Atheist

Is it just me or is the breathless warhawk tone out of CNN (and others) really annoying and disturbing? This is a little too serious for story of the week click and ratings pimpage.

Most of the press analysis has been abysmal so far. CSM has a decent article but without an eye catching headline it won’t get much notice.
Crisis in Ukraine: Obama’s options appear limited

President Obama said there would be ‘costs’ if Russia intervened militarily in Ukraine, which could include refusing to attend a G8 summit in Russia this summer. But the US has other important interests in maintaining a working relationship with Russia.
…
Any US response to the situation in Ukraine may be limited, not least because the US has what it hopes is a beneficial relationship with Russia on other - perhaps more important - issues: Iran, Syria, North Korea, bilateral trade arrangements, and transporting US military troops and equipment out of Afghanistan through Russian supply routes.

Within those parameters, Obama has one widely-discussed option: canceling a trip to Russia this summer for an international summit.

Obama might cancel a meeting, that’s about it.

122 Killgore Trout  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 12:33:32pm

re: #117 jonhendry

Which, considering Russia has a veto, is extremely unlikely.

“No condemnation for you!”
/Soup Putin

123 Bubblehead II  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 12:35:13pm

WE SHOULD GO TO DEFCON 2, PUT ALL OUR BOMBERS IN THE AIR HEADING TOWARD RUSSIA AND THEN TELL PUTIN TO LEAVE OR ELSE!

Sadly, this is probably exactly what these idiots want us to do.

124 Eventual Carrion  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 12:35:58pm

re: #106 ObserverArt

I am sure there is more than one ‘merican sitting around saying Obama is being weak because a jet strike to turn a couple Crimean airports “to glass” hasn’t happened yet. You know, just to send a little message like they do in the movies.

[snip]

Seemingly without remembering that Russia has the ability to do the same damn thing to many places in the US also. Possibly right in the middle of their shit. This isn’t Iran, Iraq or Afghanistan.

125 Killgore Trout  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 12:36:04pm

re: #116 Interesting Times

Wouldn’t that be an awesome plot for a satirical dystopia, though? Military/gov official can’t decide on a course of action, so goes rogue and picks a random blog comment to use as strategy o_O

We aren’t that far off. I’m sure if you turn on CNN right now Wolf Blitzer will be reporting on a tweet by Spunkbutt1986 as if it was real news.

126 Dr Lizardo  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 12:36:34pm

re: #125 Killgore Trout

We aren’t that far off. I’m sure if you turn on CNN right now Wolf Blitzer will be reporting on a tweet by Spunkbutt1986 as if it was real news.

lololol

127 ObserverArt  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 12:37:10pm

re: #123 Bubblehead II

WE SHOULD GO TO DEFCON 2, PUT ALL OUR BOMBERS IN THE AIR HEADING TOWARD RUSSIA AND THEN TELL PUTIN TO LEAVE OR ELSE!

Sadly, this is probably exactly what these idiots want us to do.

Obama would probably forget to load the planes…he was quivering too much.

BENGHAZI!!!

128 bratwurst  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 12:37:16pm

re: #105 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

And what do you think should be being done to stop him, Killgore?

(Nth time’s the charm.)

Waiting for a troll to take a position, eh? Don’t you have some cats to herd or Jello you could be nailing to the wall instead?

129 Killgore Trout  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 12:39:51pm

The Week: Why U.S. presidents are powerless to stop the Russians

130 thedopefishlives  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 12:41:42pm

re: #123 Bubblehead II

WE SHOULD GO TO DEFCON 2, PUT ALL OUR BOMBERS IN THE AIR HEADING TOWARD RUSSIA AND THEN TELL PUTIN TO LEAVE OR ELSE!

Sadly, this is probably exactly what these idiots want us to do.

They’re stuck in the Cold War as much as Putin is. Pretty sure our SSBN’s are the best threat we have right now, as opposed to the B-52’s.

131 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 12:41:57pm

Those Pentagon budget cut proposals sure were timely…

132 Killgore Trout  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 12:42:13pm
So what can President Obama do about it?

Not much.

The fact is that Obama, like numerous presidents before him, won’t — and really, can’t — do much to stop Putin from acting in what he sees as his own backyard. The Soviet Union, and now Russia, has a long history of using brute force when it feels the need — and the United States has usually allowed it to happen.


In October 1956, Dwight Eisenhower ignored the pleas of Hungarian freedom fighters who were rebelling against Soviet rule. Ike, who had fanned the flames by saying he supported the “liberation” of “captive peoples” in Eastern Europe, did nothing when the chips were down, fearing a nuclear exchange with Moscow. Soviet tanks rolled.

A dozen years later, a similar revolt erupted in Soviet-controlled Czechoslovakia. The rebellion, dubbed the “Prague Spring,” prompted a Moscow-led invasion. Lyndon Johnson’s response? A stiff statement condemning the move as a clear violation of the United Nations Charter.

That was it.

One exception to this American docility: Ronald Reagan’s response to the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. The 1979 attack prompted Jimmy Carter to cut off sales of wheat and to order a boycott of the Moscow Olympics. And when Reagan became president, he took it to the Soviets, training the mujahideen and arming them with Stinger missiles. His moves to roll back Soviet influence, as opposed to merely containing it, deserve much credit for forcing Moscow’s retreat.

133 Charles Johnson  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 12:42:14pm
134 Romantic Heretic  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 12:43:11pm

re: #56 Gus

This is getting ridiculous. I mean this stereotype of saying they’re “deeply concerned” is really pathetic at this point.

What else can they do?

They have no more power than the permanent member of the Security Council least inclined to intervene. Which in this case is Russia.

This is pretty much exactly like what happened in 2003 before the US invaded Iraq. Everyone knew it was illegal including the perps. Especially the perps as they intended Iraq to make the UN completely irrelevant.

They succeeded. I’m reasonably certain Putin wouldn’t have been pulling this shit if the US hadn’t showed that the UN is powerless if a permanent Security Council member doesn’t have to abide by the rules.

135 Lidane  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 12:44:10pm

re: #124 Eventual Carrion

Seemingly without remembering that Russia has the ability to do the same damn thing to many places in the US also. Possibly right in the middle of their shit. This isn’t Iran, Iraq or Afghanistan.

That’s exactly it. These dipshits (resident LGF troll included) seem to think that we can just threaten to move American warships into the area or have drone flyovers or whatever and not have the Russians do the exact same thing to us.

For the first time in a long, long time we’re facing a situation that we can’t just threaten or sabre rattle our way out of. It’s a lot more complicated.

136 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 12:44:58pm

re: #132 Killgore Trout

Yeah, arming and training mujahideen in Afghanistan worked out really well for American interests.

137 William Barnett-Lewis  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 12:46:06pm

re: #132 Killgore Trout

And creating the modern Islamic terrorist movement against the West by training and arming the forces controlled by a certain Bin Ladin.

Unintended consequences from Ronnie Raygun are still having devastating effects on the US decades after his misbegotten Presidency ended.

138 Chrysicat  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 12:49:27pm

OK. Looks like once Russia determines an area needs to be run by its puppets, we have no choice to allow it.

Depressing, but the only other options would lead to a nuclear exchange…

139 Charles Johnson  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 12:49:47pm
140 ObserverArt  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 12:50:13pm

re: #134 Romantic Heretic

What else can they do?

They have no more power than the permanent member of the Security Council least inclined to intervene. Which in this case is Russia.

This is pretty much exactly like what happened in 2003 before the US invaded Iraq. Everyone knew it was illegal including the perps. Especially the perps as they intended Iraq to make the UN completely irrelevant.

They succeeded. I’m reasonably certain Putin wouldn’t have been pulling this shit if the US hadn’t showed that the UN is powerless if a permanent Security Council member doesn’t have to abide by the rules.

Oh no…stop the intertubes…someone is making sense.

Good comment. You know the warhawks that put that little demonstration on are not thinking about the flip of all that dancing. Maybe someone should remind Dickless Cheney, Donnie Rumsfeld, the rest of the neoconmen and McCain and Graham of how it could be considered their previous actions tied the hands of Obama.

141 thedopefishlives  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 12:50:25pm

re: #139 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

That’s certainly an … interesting … compliment.

142 Lidane  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 12:51:16pm

No wonder the American right wing love him. They agree with him:


The end of the Cold War and the collapse of the Soviet Union was the worst thing to happen to the Republican party and the American right. They have no fucking clue how to function outside of it.

Maybe that’s why they’re cheering the Russians on. The sooner Putin can rebuild the Soviet Union the happier they’ll be. Things will be right again.

143 Bubblehead II  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 12:51:37pm

re: #141 thedopefishlives

That’s certainly an … interesting … compliment.

of the backhanded variety.

144 Eventual Carrion  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 12:51:47pm

re: #135 Lidane

That’s exactly it. These dipshits (resident LGF troll included) seem to think that we can just threaten to move American warships into the area or have drone flyovers or whatever and not have the Russians do the exact same thing to us.

For the first time in a long, long time we’re facing a situation that we can’t just threaten or sabre rattle our way out of. It’s a lot more complicated.

Yep. I hope Sarah remembers that they can see her house too.

145 CuriousLurker  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 12:51:57pm

re: #67 NJDhockeyfan

Latvia is joining Lithuania now…

[Embedded content]

I don’t think there is much they can do since Ukraine is not a member of NATO, correct?

Ukraine is not a member, but I can’t really figure out what their current status is beyond belonging to NATO’s Partnership for Peace (emphasis mine):

Intensified Dialogue

In the 2000s, the government of Ukraine was leaning towards NATO membership, and a deeper cooperation with the alliance was set by the NATO-Ukraine Action Plan signed in 2002. It was later agreed that the question of joining NATO should be answered by a national referendum at some point in the future. In April 2005, Ukraine entered into Intensified Dialogue with NATO, and during the 2008 Bucharest summit NATO declared that Ukraine could become a member of NATO when it wants to join and meets the criteria for accession. However, by 2010 Ukraine had announced that it no longer had NATO membership as a goal under the foreign policy of President Viktor Yanukovych. Ukraine has a close relationship with NATO, and it is the most active member of the Partnership for Peace (PfP) program.

en.wikipedia.org

Article 4 seems to be simply a consultation intended to send a political message. I assume that Latvia & Lithuania, being NATO member states, can make the request if they feel threatened (if you look at a map of Eastern Europe, you’ll see that while they don’t share a border with Ukraine, they do share borders with Russia & Poland, who in turn shares a border with Ukraine):

What Are NATO’s Articles 4 And 5?

Under Article 4, any member state can convene a meeting of NATO members to “consult” when it feels its independence or security are threatened. In practice, it has rarely been used and sends a strong political symbol to the greater world that NATO is concerned about a particular situation.

rferl.org

Gawd, what a confusing mess. O_o

I have to admit that I find it kind of ridiculous that people are complaining about what is/isn’t being done 24 hours into the situation, not to mention making all kinds of assertions about what they think will or should happen, when they clearly don’t know much more than I do about how politics & diplomacy in Europe work, how organizations like NATO function, or even who is a full-fledged member and what that means (as opposed to all the other various “partnerships”).

146 kirkspencer  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 12:51:59pm

What are we doing?

OK, let’s start with the fact that in a mess like this we the people know less than half what the President and his agencies (military, intelligence, state, and all the rest) can do and are doing.

The words for the day are “classified” and “security”.

What can we do?

Spend money. Provide ISR. Send covert assets to provide training and specific assistance.

Biggest catch: we get caught, the bigger we put in the more likely we are to strengthen the Russian position in international politics.

147 ObserverArt  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 12:52:49pm

re: #137 William Barnett-Lewis

And creating the modern Islamic terrorist movement against the West by training and arming the forces controlled by a certain Bin Ladin.

Unintended consequences from Ronnie Raygun are still having devastating effects on the US decades after his misbegotten Presidency ended.

Raygun gave great stern condemnation. “Tear Down this Wall!”

Worked some backroom deals for the betterment of us all too…like Iran!

148 Chrysicat  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 12:53:25pm
149 Charles Johnson  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 12:53:53pm
150 Romantic Heretic  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 12:54:01pm
One exception to this American docility: Ronald Reagan’s response to the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. The 1979 attack prompted Jimmy Carter to cut off sales of wheat and to order a boycott of the Moscow Olympics. And when Reagan became president, he took it to the Soviets, training the mujahideen and arming them with Stinger missiles. His moves to roll back Soviet influence, as opposed to merely containing it, deserve much credit for forcing Moscow’s retreat.

And look how that turned out.

Image: Topics_911_attacks.jpg

151 thedopefishlives  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 12:56:02pm

re: #142 Lidane

No wonder the American right wing love him. They agree with him:

[Embedded content]


The end of the Cold War and the collapse of the Soviet Union was the worst thing to happen to the Republican party and the American right. They have no fucking clue how to function outside of it.

Maybe that’s why they’re cheering the Russians on. The sooner Putin can rebuild the Soviet Union the happier they’ll be. Things will be right again.

The real irony of all this is that the Republican right was, arguably, the greatest opponent of the Soviet Union. Now that it’s gone, though, they’re left without purpose. The Joker needs his Batman back.

152 William Barnett-Lewis  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 12:57:13pm

re: #151 thedopefishlives

The real irony of all this is that the Republican right was, arguably, the greatest opponent of the Soviet Union. Now that it’s gone, though, they’re left without purpose. The Joker needs his Batman back.

That’s the real “killing joke”…

153 Romantic Heretic  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 12:57:45pm

re: #151 thedopefishlives

The real irony of all this is that the Republican right was, arguably, the greatest opponent of the Soviet Union. Now that it’s gone, though, they’re left without purpose. The Joker needs his Batman back.

An interesting analogy. I’ve felt for awhile that the teahadis just want to see the world burn. And they run the GOP these days.

154 ObserverArt  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 12:58:06pm

re: #150 Romantic Heretic

And look how that turned out.

Image: Topics_911_attacks.jpg

After the candy comes the toothaches and dentists bills. But damn, the candy was good. Good, hard candy. In later years you can talk about how good the candy was even through all your fake teeth…if you can afford the fake teeth.

155 Targetpractice  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 12:59:23pm

re: #151 thedopefishlives

The real irony of all this is that the Republican right was, arguably, the greatest opponent of the Soviet Union. Now that it’s gone, though, they’re left without purpose. The Joker needs his Batman back.

“I think you and I are destined to do this forever.”

156 calochortus  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 1:00:09pm

re: #118 Lidane

I’ve seen complaints from wingnuts about how we’re not using our bully pulpit.

WTF? Using a bully pulpit means that you’re giving ultimatums. These dipshits seem to forget that the Russians have nukes too. We can’t just waltz in guns blazing. We need a cool head and a reasoned response.

Actually, I think the original usage of bully pulpit was just that the office of president gave one a terrific or wonderful platform to have one’s thoughts heard. Not that one was doing any bullying.

157 thedopefishlives  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 1:00:32pm

re: #155 Targetpractice

“I think you and I are destined to do this forever.”

“So this is what happens when an unstoppable force meets an immovable object.”

158 Charles Johnson  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 1:02:00pm
159 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 1:02:38pm

re: #155 Targetpractice

“I think you and I are destined to do this forever.”

Image: LZZ5zCm.jpg

160 thedopefishlives  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 1:03:11pm

re: #153 Romantic Heretic

An interesting analogy. I’ve felt for awhile that the teahadis just want to see the world burn. And they run the GOP these days.

Not that I would compare the Soviet Union to Batman, by any means. But I really couldn’t figure out a way to phrase the comparison that truly fit both sides of this incredibly complex equation.

161 jonhendry  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 1:03:50pm

What’s odd is that the people who want us to intervene can’t even use anti-Communist fervor as a justification.

What exactly is the horrible fate in store for the residents of territory Russia might seize?

They were in an Eastern European kleptocracy. Russia is an Eastern European kleptocracy. Not much of a change there.

To be honest, I find it hard to care if Russia takes back the Crimea.

162 Charles Johnson  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 1:04:43pm
163 Ming  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 1:05:10pm

re: #26 petesh

He looked the man in the eye, and found him to be very straightforward and trustworthy.

I assume you’re referring to George W. Bush’s assessment of Vladimir Putin. Thank you for reminding us of this idiotic GWB utterance that’s so very relevant to this week’s events. I’m grateful that Obama is the President now. I don’t know what we can do to help Ukraine, but I’m confident that Obama will handle this well.

164 b.d.  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 1:09:49pm

Per CNN now;

UN going to an open televised discussion!

Take that Putie!

165 thedopefishlives  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 1:11:12pm

re: #164 b.d.

Per CNN now;

UN going to an open televised discussion!

Take that Putie!

It’s super effective!

166 wrenchwench  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 1:11:48pm

It’s Australian and won’t play for me.

ETA: Here.

167 Killgore Trout  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 1:11:52pm

re: #164 b.d.

Per CNN now;

UN going to an open televised discussion!

Take that Putie!

Putification will be televised!

168 wrenchwench  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 1:14:43pm
169 b.d.  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 1:15:58pm

So Wheeler’s response to Pando’s article is a diatribe where she licks Pierre’s butt and absolves him of doing anything wrong. If this was anyone but Pierre Marcy would be screaming from the rooftops about the American CIA, backed by hiding in plain sight financing from the 1%, was responsible for the Ukraine mess.

emptywheel.net

1 month into firstlook and they are already toast, credibility wise.

170 chadu  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 1:18:19pm

re: #113 Killgore Trout

It’s early but this might be headline of the day…
WW III Imminent? Doctors Urge Preparedness

Jebus, KT, are you drooling?

171 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 1:20:04pm

re: #164 b.d.

Per CNN now;

UN going to an open televised discussion!

Take that Putie!

This is why it got delayed.


Sorry Russia, you lose.

172 Hercules Grytpype-Thynneghazi  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 1:20:27pm

re: #156 calochortus

Actually, I think the original usage of bully pulpit was just that the office of president gave one a terrific or wonderful platform to have one’s thoughts heard. Not that one was doing any bullying.

The term was coined by Teddy Roosevelt, who famously used “bully!” as a general expression of approval, like “great!” or “wonderful!”. He just meant that the presidency put him in a great position to have his opinions listened to.

173 chadu  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 1:23:53pm

re: #136 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce

Yeah, arming and training mujahideen in Afghanistan worked out really well for American interests.

It did because shut up.

174 CuriousLurker  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 1:24:11pm

re: #145 CuriousLurker

FYI: For anyone who’s inclined to spend the weekend actually educating him/herself about NATO, their website provides plenty of info in the form of descriptions of the organization and how it works, as well as lots & lots of documents you can read in its e-Libaray.

175 chadu  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 1:25:54pm

re: #146 kirkspencer

OK, let’s start with the fact that in a mess like this we the people know less than half what the President and his agencies (military, intelligence, state, and all the rest) can do and are doing.

The words for the day are “classified” and “security”.

That’s unpossible!

The internets! Bloggers!

///

176 jonhendry  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 1:28:32pm

re: #173 chadu

Hey chadu,

In comments to an earlier post you were speculating on the origin of Charlie Pierce calling Noonan “Our Lady Of The Dolphins”.

It’s actually from the Elian Gonzales thing. Noonan wrote a column that, if I recall correctly, involved Jesus guiding dolphins to save Elian from drowning. Or something to that effect.

177 chadu  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 1:30:23pm

re: #176 jonhendry

Hey chadu,

In comments to an earlier post you were speculating on the origin of Charlie Pierce calling Noonan “Our Lady Of The Dolphins”.

It’s actually from the Elian Gonzales thing. Noonan wrote a column that, if I recall correctly, involved Jesus guiding dolphins to save Elian from drowning. Or something to that effect.

Thanks! I saw that pop up in email, and was juuuuust about to go back to the thread and thank you!

SERIOUSLY. Was opening the tab here. ;)

Muchas gracias!

178 bubba zanetti  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 1:30:39pm
179 Bubblehead II  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 1:32:51pm

WTF? I thought the U.N. had translators. Can’t understand a word the Diplo from the Russian Federation is saying. He isn’t what you would call happy.

180 thedopefishlives  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 1:33:29pm

re: #175 chadu

That’s unpossible!

The internets! Bloggers!

///

INFORMATION JUST WANTS TO BE FREE!!!1!1

181 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 1:33:29pm

CNN scroll says 15,000 troop are now in Crimea per Ukraine ambassador.

182 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 1:34:10pm

re: #179 Bubblehead II

WTF? I thought the U.N. had translators. Can’t understand a word the Diplo from the Russian Federation is saying. He isn’t what you would call happy.

CNN has it live in TV if you have one.

183 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 1:35:28pm

He’s blathering on about the protesters and blaming them for the circumstances today.

184 chadu  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 1:37:05pm

re: #180 thedopefishlives

INFORMATION JUST WANTS TO BE FREE!!!1!1

Free Willy!
Willy Loman!
Death of a Salesman!
…
Information wants to be dead?
…
(NEED MOAR* COFFEE!!!)

* Less.

185 Dr Lizardo  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 1:38:08pm

re: #183 NJDhockeyfan

He’s blathering on about the protesters and blaming them for the circumstances today.

“It’s those damned war-mongering trouble-making Juice protesters that are causing all the trouble!!”

186 Chrysicat  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 1:38:27pm
187 thedopefishlives  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 1:38:57pm

re: #186 Chrysicat

[Embedded content]

Well, he can’t call it an invasion, that’s TOO obvious.

188 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 1:39:31pm

re: #167 Killgore Trout

Putification will be televised!

Putrifaction

189 NJDhockeyfan  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 1:40:38pm

re: #185 Dr Lizardo

“It’s those damned war-mongering trouble-making Juice protesters that are causing all the trouble!!”

Yes because you know Russia is the real victim here!

190 jonhendry  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 1:40:59pm

re: #181 NJDhockeyfan

Are those Ukraine troops or Russian troops? If they’re Russian troops, are they newly-arrived? Or were many of them already stationed at the Russian bases in Crimea?

191 thedopefishlives  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 1:41:03pm

re: #189 NJDhockeyfan

Yes because you know Russia is the real victim here!

Well, to be fair, we did inflict them with Edward Snowden, so.

192 steve_davis  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 1:42:30pm

re: #67 NJDhockeyfan

Latvia is joining Lithuania now…

[Embedded content]


I don’t think there is much they can do since Ukraine is not a member of NATO, correct?

193 jonhendry  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 1:42:33pm

re: #186 Chrysicat

To be fair, we probably sent 15,000 to Panama on that little “police action” against Noriega.

194 steve_davis  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 1:43:05pm

re: #192 steve_davis

i have no idea what happened there.

195 Chrysicat  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 1:43:26pm
196 Chrysicat  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 1:45:55pm

re: #193 jonhendry

To be fair, we probably sent 15,000 to Panama on that little “police action” against Noriega.

Yes, but that was removing a rogue actor and kleptocrat from the world stage. Russia’s doing this to restore one.

197 jaunte  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 1:49:45pm

Russian forces in Ukraine: What does the Black Sea Fleet in Crimea look like?

Mark Galeotti, a professor at New York University who blogs about security issues, answered a series of questions about Russia’s military.

198 Lidane  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 1:49:45pm

Elsewhere in Dudebro Land:


So let’s review: Greenwald didn’t check to see where his sugar daddy was spending his money because he’s Teh Journalist, and Bitcoin cannot fail, it can only be failed.

Does that about sum it up?

199 jonhendry  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 1:50:43pm

re: #196 Chrysicat

“Yes, but that was removing a rogue actor and kleptocrat from the world stage. Russia’s doing this to restore one.”

Heh, well, we didn’t prop up a great candidate either.

By May 1992, Endara’s public approval rating had fallen from its initial 70% to only 10%.[19] The Associated Press later described Endara’s administration as being “tarnished by scandal”.[16] Among other financial scandals, Endara’s wife Ana Mae Diaz was accused of reselling food that had been donated by Italy on the streets of Panama City.[20]

That said, I wonder if Russia is trying to restore Yanukovich, or if they are “just” going to take back the Crimea, perhaps under cover of trying to restore Yanukovich.

200 b.d.  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 1:52:57pm

I have to check to see how shallow Wolf’s breath is to gauge the effect of the open UN meeting.

201 Lidane  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 1:53:04pm
202 jonhendry  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 1:54:13pm

re: #200 b.d.

Someone hook Wolf Blitzer up to one of those erection-ometers.

203 b.d.  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 1:55:13pm

re: #198 Lidane

Elsewhere in Dudebro Land:

[Embedded content]


So let’s review: Greenwald didn’t check to see where his sugar daddy was spending his money because he’s Teh Journalist, and Bitcoin cannot fail, it can only be failed.

Does that about sum it up?

I had never heard of that guy so I had to check if he was a DudeBro.

Yep.

204 Dr Lizardo  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 1:55:31pm

re: #199 jonhendry

“Yes, but that was removing a rogue actor and kleptocrat from the world stage. Russia’s doing this to restore one.”

Heh, well, we didn’t prop up a great candidate either.

That said, I wonder if Russia is trying to restore Yanukovich, or if they are “just” going to take back the Crimea, perhaps under cover of trying to restore Yanukovich.

Maybe the Russians can make Yanuk President of Crimea. He can loot the economy there to build himself a nice new palace.

205 CuriousLurker  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 1:57:20pm

There’s quite a bit of up-to-date info in the following NY Times article, as well as a some helpful background context regarding other players and (recent) history. I’m not going cherry-pick & frame the part(s) I want to you read as I’m sure those of you who are interested are plenty smart enough to digest the entire thing and come to your own conclusions:

Kremlin Clears Way for Force in Ukraine; Separatist Split Feared

206 wrenchwench  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 1:57:50pm
207 Justanotherhuman  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 1:58:31pm

I take the afternoon off, and come back to this! Hahahahaha!

Also, where 2 assholes get into it with each other.

209 Killgore Trout  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 2:03:22pm
5. What is Russia’s game plan? My view, and at this stage it can be no more than a guess, is that having given up on Yanukovych (they have to look after him, to convince other kleptocrats that Russia is a reliable friend, but they clearly are treating him as an former president, not a visiting head of state), they instead are fixing on making sure that Kyiv understands that it needs to consider Russian interests and on helping the eastern regions and Crimea win even greater autonomy for themselves within Ukraine. That way, the pretty dirty, Russia-leaning local elites in these regions can be Moscow’s agents and allies inside Ukraine, spoilers if need be, but Russia still has access to Ukraine’s markets and if need be can always use trade boycotts and the energy supply as further levers.
….
In other words, I am indeed assuming that the Russians are rational actors, even if the sources on which they are making their decisions and the operating assumptions behind them are not necessarily my own. Putin would not be the first leader who, in the heat of the moment, acted irrationally, but on the other hand his track record to date is that, especially in foreign affairs, his is a pretty cool head and he tends to be risk averse. We’ll see.
210 chadu  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 2:12:28pm

re: #206 wrenchwench

…for Spoonerisms!

211 wrenchwench  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 2:14:39pm

re: #210 chadu

[Embedded image]

…for Spoonerisms!

I thought you might like that. Had a band name in it.

212 chadu  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 2:18:46pm

re: #211 wrenchwench

I thought you might like that. Had a band name in it.

Seriously, you had me at “Reverend Spooner.” ;)

I love Spoonerisms, malaprops, and Dogberry in MUCH ADO…

213 piratedan  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 2:26:26pm

re: #83 ObserverArt

Got one question…well actually a lot of questions (especially today)…but one for now.

Who and what else has Glenn Greenwald failed to thoroughly check in his zeal to be the world’s greatest journalist (that doesn’t check things out)?

If his concern for power (economic and/or reputation) is his motivation I am thinking he may just overlook a lot of things to get what he wants.

An example? Oh, I don’t know…maybe like a dude by the name of Snowden? How much did Glenn research all of Snowden’s background as far as was he ever a legit whistleblower. Or did he gloss over Snowden’s character and maybe even connections to outsiders seeing only that big story?

We all thought Greenwald was using and abusing Snowden. Maybe all along Snowden was using Greenwald. And if Snowden does turn out to be working with someone else it would make even more sense.

Very curious.

we floated the possibility that Snowden turned quite a while back (when he was working overseas) and since he approached GG that he was essentially playing Greenwald while doing some old fashioned espionage under the guise of “whistleblowing”. If you track the actions, they sure as shit aren’t those of a “concerned citizen” and look more like those of a dudebro who doesn’t feel any allegiance to any country and serves himself above all (not that there’s anything wrong with self-nterest, but methinks this is a tad extreme). If I was concerned, I’d speak to my boss and if I had been blown off, I would determine what my options were… somehow I don’t think cajoling passwords from fellow users and doing a wholesale document dump is the exact methodology I would have used.

Despite GG being a tool, my contempt is for the contracting entity that did a piss-poor job of vetting Snowden and granting him access to such sensitive information when his actions over the past few years might have drawn something other than a cursory look and rubber stamp.

214 GlutenFreeJesus  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 2:44:27pm

KT is on the Kremlin’s payroll? Who knew.

215 AntonSirius  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 3:07:56pm

re: #117 jonhendry

Well, it’s not like they can just up and send SHIELD in.

Putin wouldn’t stand a chance against Agent Romanova.

216 AntonSirius  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 3:15:01pm

re: #125 Killgore Trout

We aren’t that far off. I’m sure if you turn on CNN right now Wolf Blitzer will be reporting on a tweet by Spunkbutt1986 as if it was real news.

A few years ago I came up with a sketch for the troupe I was working with called Faceblitz, which had Wolf obliviously reading some college kid’s Facebook Wall posts as though they were news items. (There was also an interview with a Pentagon official commenting on the escalating vampire/werewolf war.)

Then Rick Sanchez discovered social media on his afternoon show, and it wasn’t satire anymore. Poor little sketch… it only had a shelf life of, like, eight months.

217 Ming  Sat, Mar 1, 2014 3:17:08pm

This goes back to a comment Dr. Lizardo made about the Sevastopol military complex in Crimea, last weekend I think. I can understand that Putin cannot surrender control of that important military base. Historically, the USSR was always sort of landlocked. They valued their ports to the sea, and I’m sure Russia still feels this way. (By the way, I sometimes wonder if Putin sees Iran as an eventual warm-water port for his Navy, but that’s another topic…)

I wonder if an option would be for Russia to have Sevastopol, similar to how we have Guantanamo. Once Sevastopol is “set aside”, it may be easier for both sides, Russia and Ukraine, to go their separate ways. Ukraine would have its freedom, Russia would have its military base, and I assume this would reduce the reasons for conflict.

I don’t know the details, but I wonder if this would be similar to whatever arrangement there is between Russia and Kazakhstan, such that Russia launches its rockets to the International Space Station from the USSR launch facility in Kazakhstan. So, Russia would have Star City in Kazakhstan, and Sevastopol in Ukraine.


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