Ukraine Concedes Crimean Peninsula After Russia Seizes Navy Base

Cossacks grabbing land
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Ukrainian servicemen filed out of navy headquarters in Sevastopol on Wednesday with tears in their eyes after the base was seized by pro-Moscow militants, Russian troops and Cossack forces. The assault began when some 200 unarmed militants — some of them in balaclavas — sawed through a fence and overran the base while the Ukrainian servicemen barricaded themselves inside. VIKTOR DRACHEV/AFP/Getty Images

Today, Ukraine has conceded the Crimean peninsula to Russia, and is planning to relocate all military and diplomatic personnel to the mainland. The alternative, of course, would have been armed conflict — and without full military support from NATO there’s no way Ukraine could prevail against Russia.

While the provisional government in Kiev has insisted that Russia’s annexation of Crimea is illegal and has appealed to international supporters for help, the evacuation announcement by the head of the national security council, Andriy Parubiy, effectively amounted to a surrender of Crimea, at least from a military standpoint.

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178 comments
1 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 1:07:35pm

And now for a lot of people to scowl and blame Obama and NATO and yet curiously never actually say what they’d have liked to have happen, but instead rely on tough-sounding phrases.

2 Dr Lizardo  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 1:07:43pm

And the world’s gonna party like it’s 1999 2014 1938.

3 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 1:08:21pm

They are also going after the families…

4 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 1:09:52pm

Putin does see a weakness in the USA: he sees a government in which the Congress and President are unable to cooperate to get anything done, he sees the House controlled by a Party that has its head so far up its ass on foreign policy that he need not worry about anything but letters of protest.

5 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 1:10:12pm

And any letter of protest signed by Obama will probably be accompanied by a statement of support from the GOP

6 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 1:10:29pm

re: #4 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

What would you want us doing?

7 Testy Toad T  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 1:12:04pm

re: #1 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

And now for a lot of people to scowl and blame Obama and NATO and yet curiously never actually say what they’d have liked to have happen, but instead rely on tough-sounding phrases.

I’m a little bit okay blaming the EU for not having some sort of cohesive and predetermined plan (even if that plan was “do nothing”) for the Russians pulling something like this. Frankly, it’s all in their backyard. It would be inappropriate for the US to take the lead on anything here.

I think there are some negative reflections on, eg, German and British leadership for frowning and then deciding that oh, whoops, natural gas, never mind. I don’t think it reflects on the US, or on Obama’s administration, one way or the other.

8 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 1:12:04pm
9 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 1:12:12pm

re: #6 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

What would you want us doing?

We would be working towards cutting Russia off from any technology or trade that would aid its economy. And cancelling rock concerts and cracking down on Russian pirate copying of Metallica CD’s

10 Testy Toad T  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 1:13:38pm

re: #9 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

We would be working towards cutting Russia off from any technology or trade that would aid its economy.

Economic effects of that nature tend to go both ways, since they happen in the first place for mutual gain.

You would hamstring an already weak economic recovery at home for a foreign affair that can’t even attract the interest of powers in that region?

11 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 1:14:40pm

re: #9 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

We would be working towards cutting Russia off from any technology or trade that would aid its economy.

Any? Is that actually a practical thing that can occur? You want nothing going into Russia, nothing coming out? Who else would be affected by that?

How do we, for example, get China on board with that, and what do we do about the energy needs of Europe?

12 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 1:15:39pm

re: #10 Testy Toad T

Economic effects of that nature tend to go both ways, since they happen in the first place for mutual gain.

You would hamstring an already weak economic recovery at home for a foreign affair that can’t even attract the interest of powers in that region?

It is a shame, as the Russian economy lags behind the US in most respects, but we are not in a political or economic position to exploit those advantages.

And yes, hamstringing our economy would be preferable to military conflict.

13 Decatur Deb  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 1:16:59pm

re: #6 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

What would you want us doing?

Take a 10% increased military spending bill with offsetting tax increases to John Boehner, sending a message to him and to Putin.

14 Dr. Matt  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 1:17:12pm

But remember, Obama is the “ruthless and ruleless tyrant”

15 Charles Johnson  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 1:17:25pm

In all situations like this, you simply have to make a gain/loss calculation, and it isn’t worth the cost to plunge that part of Eastern Europe into a bloody conflict and interrupt the natural gas supply. Some people seem to think the right way to respond is to get all puffed up and issue threats of war, but the fact is that nobody is going to go to war over this.

16 Testy Toad T  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 1:18:32pm

re: #11 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

Any? Is that actually a practical thing that can occur? You want nothing going into Russia, nothing coming out? Who else would be affected by that?

It’s been a conscious geopolitical decision to try to intertwine our economy as much as possible with that of the Russian Federation since basically the end of the Cold War. Presumably this was in hopes that, like China, both parties would recognize that taking action against the other would be unacceptably harmful. MAD, but without the nukes.

For example, Boeing does a shit-ton of commercial aviation engineering in Russia. Am I willing to cede a big market advantage (and functionally, a lot of the economy of the state of Washington) to Airbus over an issue with a neighbor of France and Germany, when the French and Germans don’t care enough to lift a finger?

17 Dr. Matt  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 1:18:35pm

re: #15 Charles Johnson

Some people seem to think the right way to respond is to get all puffed up and issue threats of war, but the fact is that nobody is going to go to war over this.

A President McCain might have.

18 Charles Johnson  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 1:19:23pm

I’ve seen some pundits write that Putin is blundering along irrationally without a plan, but it sure looks like he judged the situation pretty well, from the standpoint of a Chekist.

19 Kragar  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 1:19:48pm

re: #15 Charles Johnson

In all situations like this, you simply have to make a gain/loss calculation, and it isn’t worth the cost to plunge that part of Eastern Europe into a bloody conflict and interrupt the natural gas supply. Some people seem to think the right way to respond is to get all puffed up and issue threats of war, but the fact is that nobody is going to go to war over this.

Which is a shame, because remember how Eisenhower sent in the troops to push Khrushchev out of Hungary?
///

20 chadu  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 1:21:02pm

And if the balloon hasn’t gone up, it’s being inflated for damnsure.

21 Ian G.  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 1:21:17pm

re: #2 Dr Lizardo

And the world’s gonna party like it’s 1999 2014 1938.

More like 2008, when Russia kicked Georgia out of South Ossetia and Abkhazia. I guess Crimea just gets bigger headlines, even though Kiev has keep remarkably cool, unlike Saakashvili, who got his little country bloodied for little gain.

22 chadu  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 1:21:29pm

re: #3 NJDhockeyfan

They are also going after the families…

[Embedded content]

Fuck.

23 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 1:21:47pm
24 philosophus invidius  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 1:22:03pm

And now for the nuclear threat …

25 Dr Lizardo  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 1:22:21pm

re: #15 Charles Johnson

In all situations like this, you simply have to make a gain/loss calculation, and it isn’t worth the cost to plunge that part of Eastern Europe into a bloody conflict and interrupt the natural gas supply. Some people seem to think the right way to respond is to get all puffed up and issue threats of war, but the fact is that nobody is going to go to war over this.

And that’s quite correct. The concern in my little corner of the world - living as I do in a former Warsaw Pact nation, now a NATO member state - is “What’s Putin up to? Is he going to come after the former Eastern Bloc nations? Is Crimea enough or does he want more?”

The words, “This is my last territorial demand in Europe” still ring quite clearly here, as well as such cynical phrases such as “The government of the CSSR has invited their Warsaw Pact brothers to help restore order in Prague”.

Hopefully, Putin isn’t foolhardy enough to attempt something like this in NATO or the EU proper.

26 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 1:23:09pm

re: #18 Charles Johnson

I’ve seen some pundits write that Putin is blundering along irrationally without a plan, but it sure looks like he judged the situation pretty well, from the standpoint of a Chekist.

Back in 1992, I was working in Moscow with some fellows (about Putin’s age) who retained their membership in the Communist Party. I asked one colleague why he retained membership in an organization that had failed miserably and was now totally defunct.

Myi pobedim (We will prevail) was his response.

Yep, they have had these moves planned long in advance, and we in the West are merely improvising and backpedaling.

27 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 1:23:11pm

re: #13 Decatur Deb

Take a 10% increased military spending bill with offsetting tax increases to John Boehner, sending a message to him and to Putin.

Our military spending and power is already so vast I don’t think that Putin is going to notice if we raise it by 10%.

Anyway, obviously Boehner wouldn’t go for it, which I assume is what you were getting at.

28 chadu  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 1:23:22pm

re: #15 Charles Johnson

In all situations like this, you simply have to make a gain/loss calculation, and it isn’t worth the cost to plunge that part of Eastern Europe into a bloody conflict and interrupt the natural gas supply. Some people seem to think the right way to respond is to get all puffed up and issue threats of war, but the fact is that nobody is going to go to war over this.

Not yet.

Maybe not ever, but… I gots the wooblies.

29 Snarknado!  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 1:23:59pm

re: #24 philosophus invidius

And now for the nuclear threat …

[Embedded content]

How do they benefit from having a nuclear power on their southern flank?

30 freetoken  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 1:24:45pm

re: #2 Dr Lizardo

And the world’s gonna party like it’s 1999 2014 1938.

… or 1812.

… or 1438.

31 Dr Lizardo  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 1:25:33pm

re: #29 Snarknado!

How do they benefit from having a nuclear power on their southern flank?

“Foundations of Geopolitics” by Aleksander Dugin answers that question, in which he proposes a strategic alliance with Iran, including a mutual defense pact, in order to stand up to “the liberal hegemony of the United States and it’s EU puppets.”

32 Ian G.  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 1:25:38pm

re: #15 Charles Johnson

In all situations like this, you simply have to make a gain/loss calculation, and it isn’t worth the cost to plunge that part of Eastern Europe into a bloody conflict and interrupt the natural gas supply. Some people seem to think the right way to respond is to get all puffed up and issue threats of war, but the fact is that nobody is going to go to war over this.

We didn’t go to war over Hungary in 1956, we didn’t go to war over Czechoslovakia in 1968, we didn’t go to war over Poland in 1981, we didn’t go to war over Lithuania in 1991, and we didn’t go the war over Georgia in 2008.

Face it, we’re just not going to go to war with Moscow when they fuck with their weaker neighbors, D or R in the White House, any more than Moscow would have gone to war to protect the loony little communist government in Grenada in 1983.

33 Testy Toad T  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 1:26:39pm

re: #25 Dr Lizardo

Hopefully, Putin isn’t foolhardy enough to attempt something like this in NATO or the EU proper.

IMHO, it speaks a lot to the arguable over-expansion of the EU (and of NATO) that that is even a point of discussion. If Germany were invaded, or Italy, or the United Kingdom, there would be nothing to talk about.

Much like Greece with the Eurozone, it’s a mistake to tie your country by treaty to another country to which you are not fully 100% committed. I thought we learned that lesson in 1914.

34 Targetpractice  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 1:27:23pm

re: #15 Charles Johnson

In all situations like this, you simply have to make a gain/loss calculation, and it isn’t worth the cost to plunge that part of Eastern Europe into a bloody conflict and interrupt the natural gas supply. Some people seem to think the right way to respond is to get all puffed up and issue threats of war, but the fact is that nobody is going to go to war over this.

Which does little but boost Putin’s position when it becomes clear that, no matter how much we threaten war, we’re not going to go through with it. Western Europe simply can’t be bothered to go to war over a country that they only see as being land upon which the natural gas pipes that they rely upon pass through. Whether we wish to acknowledge it or not, Putin has Europe by the balls.

35 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 1:27:35pm

re: #26 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

What do you think Putin gains? To me, he only ‘gains’ from the perspective of Nationalistic Russia, needing to move on ethnically russian areas to confirm the nationalism he’s been preaching.

I don’t think he’s blundering, but I think he is fucking up, in that taking Crimea isn’t going to gain him, or Russia anything of actual value for the nation.

36 Decatur Deb  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 1:27:37pm

re: #27 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

Our military spending and power is already so vast I don’t think that Putin is going to notice if we raise it by 10%.

Anyway, obviously Boehner wouldn’t go for it, which I assume is what you were getting at.

Putin’s discomfort level could be managed by the selection and basing of weapons systems. Shutting the TPGOP up might solve a good part of our foreign policy problems. At any rate, it’s a long-term push that could be redirected at any time it’s convenient.

Restoring tactical nukes to Turkish soil might be instructional.

37 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 1:28:03pm
38 Ian G.  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 1:29:12pm

re: #25 Dr Lizardo

Hopefully, Putin isn’t foolhardy enough to attempt something like this in NATO or the EU proper.

I don’t think he’s foolhardy enough to try it in any other part of the Ukraine.

And going into NATO proper? I don’t even know that the US would be necessary in such a situation. I feel like, barring a nuclear strike, the Bundeswehr would hand Putin’s army an asskicking on the level of Tannenberg if it came to that.

39 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 1:29:32pm

re: #25 Dr Lizardo

Hopefully, Putin isn’t foolhardy enough to attempt something like this in NATO or the EU proper.

The Soviet Union was simply dissolved by administrative declaration in 1991: no attempt was made to resolve the social, ethnic, economic or political issues that arose from creating 15 independent states from one super-state.

Putin and his cohorts knew that a couple decades of chaos would lead the Russian people to welcome a strong leader and that leader would be able to resolve all those outstanding issues to Russia’s favor.

40 Killgore Trout  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 1:33:21pm

re: #24 philosophus invidius

And now for the nuclear threat …

[Embedded content]

Meh. I don’t think it’s much of a secret that Russia is continuing to help Iran’s nuclear program and have no interest in any deal that puts curbs on it. It’s also not a secret that a deal with Iran is unlikely. Russia just wants credit for helping to assist Iran’s nuclear ambitions and pissing off the west.

41 Dr Lizardo  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 1:35:54pm

re: #38 Ian G.

I don’t think he’s foolhardy enough to try it in any other part of the Ukraine.

And going into NATO proper? I don’t even know that the US would be necessary in such a situation. I feel like, barring a nuclear strike, the Bundeswehr would hand Putin’s army an asskicking on the level of Tannenberg if it came to that.

Heh. In a match between the highly-professional Bundeswehr and the Russian Army, yeah, my money would be on the Bundeswehr, conventional warfare wise, of course. The Russian military is a shell of its former self.

42 Justanotherhuman  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 1:37:56pm

Senior US military officials say ‘thousands’ of Russian troops staged along the Ukrainian border have raised serious concerns at the Pentagon - @NBCNews
end of alert

43 Testy Toad T  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 1:38:03pm

re: #41 Dr Lizardo

Heh. In a match between the highly-professional Bundeswehr and the Russian Army, yeah, my money would be on the Bundeswehr, conventional warfare wise, of course. The Russian military is a shell of its former self.

On the other hand, I would be willing to wager that the appetite for casualties is much slimmer in any of western Europe.

It’s always dangerous to fight someone who feels like they have less to lose, be they a common mugger or a crumbling nuclear superpower.

44 Jack Burton  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 1:38:53pm

re: #15 Charles Johnson

In all situations like this, you simply have to make a gain/loss calculation, and it isn’t worth the cost to plunge that part of Eastern Europe into a bloody conflict and interrupt the natural gas supply. Some people seem to think the right way to respond is to get all puffed up and issue threats of war, but the fact is that nobody is going to go to war over this.

What Russia is doing now would be the same thing as if (In a hypothetical world where Obama was actually power hungry dictator that wingnuts like to pretend he is..) we invaded and took over Cuba because of Guantanamo Bay.

If we did, the world would be outraged. We would get a nasty letter from the UN. And then no one would do anything else. No one would be willing to start World War 3 over it.

Putin knows this. The US and Russia and probably China can get away with almost anything right now because no one wants to open that Pandora’s Box.

45 Justanotherhuman  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 1:40:19pm

I wish someone would inform Greensnow of this.

US Ambassador to the UN Samantha Power on Crimea: ‘A thief can steal property but that does not confer the right of ownership on the thief’ - @NickBryantNY
end of alert

46 Bubblehead II  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 1:43:22pm

Next up on the annexation menu. Moldova

Moldova’s Trans-Dniester region pleads to join Russia

Pro-Russian politicians and activists in Moldova’s breakaway Trans-Dniester region have asked the Russian parliament to draft a law that would allow their territory to join Russia.

47 Decatur Deb  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 1:43:56pm

While we’re talkn’ Old School Cold War, here’s the end-of-the world scenario no one much remembers—Able Archer ‘83:

www2.gwu.edu

It’s regrettably detailed, just right for bedtime reading.

48 Charles Johnson  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 1:44:01pm

I don’t even want to link to this garbage. Just some of the sleaziest shit I’ve seen in a while. Assholes.

49 Testy Toad T  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 1:44:47pm

Firebaggers are some of the lowliest ostensibly-left-wing creatures on the internet.

50 ericblair  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 1:45:06pm

re: #35 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

What do you think Putin gains? To me, he only ‘gains’ from the perspective of Nationalistic Russia, needing to move on ethnically russian areas to confirm the nationalism he’s been preaching.

I don’t think he’s blundering, but I think he is fucking up, in that taking Crimea isn’t going to gain him, or Russia anything of actual value for the nation.

My thoughts as well. Crimea will probably be an ongoing low-level pain in the ass and money sink, the upcoming ethnic cleansing of the Crimean Tatars will be an ongoing diplomatic problem, and Russia’s military posture is about the same. You have a lot of the older crowd in Crimea thinking this means the Soviet Union is back, but I have my doubts Putin will be forking over a pile of new pension money. This gives the Russian nationalists a stiffy, but stiffies aren’t forever (if they are, see your doctor).

The triumphalist pro-Russian stuff also harps on how the West can’t do anything about it, since giving the US and Western Europe the finger is also gratifying given the sort of insecurity and sense of defeat that’s been simmering since the USSR broke up.

I don’t think any sanctions should be targeted to the general Russian public, since that will just feed the persecution complex. Russia (and until now Ukraine) are plutocracies, and hitting the small enormously wealthy inner circle in the pocketbook will get the biggest effect without risking military conflict or causing major economic pain on either side.

51 Kragar  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 1:47:45pm
52 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 1:48:05pm

re: #50 ericblair

I don’t think any sanctions should be targeted to the general Russian public, since that will just feed the persecution complex. Russia (and until now Ukraine) are plutocracies, and hitting the small enormously wealthy inner circle in the pocketbook will get the biggest effect without risking military conflict or causing major economic pain on either side.

Plutocrats are good at taking sanctions aimed at them and passing the costs onto the working masses, sorta like our banks socializing their losses while privatizing profits.

53 Varek Raith  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 1:48:29pm

re: #46 Bubblehead II

Transnistria

54 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 1:49:06pm

re: #53 Varek Raith

Transnistria

I’m just a sweet Transnistrian, from Tiraspol in Moldavia!

55 Decatur Deb  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 1:50:23pm

re: #45 Justanotherhuman

I wish someone would inform Greensnow of this.

US Ambassador to the UN Samantha Power on Crimea: ‘A thief can steal property but that does not confer the right of ownership on the thief’ - @NickBryantNY
end of alert

Chief Red Cloud was not informed, either.

56 Decatur Deb  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 1:52:31pm

re: #49 Testy Toad T

Firebaggers are some of the lowliest ostensibly-left-wing creatures on the internet.

A lake of scum and villainy?

57 Justanotherhuman  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 1:54:22pm

re: #49 Testy Toad T

Firebaggers are some of the lowliest ostensibly-left-wing creatures on the internet.

I’ve never seen FDL as much more than an amalgamation of libertarians. Jane Hamsher will take money from anyone—she’s worked for all of them, Ds, Rs, whoever she can get money from.

Truth Dig definitely slants left, though.

58 Pie-onist Overlord  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 1:54:55pm

LOLWUT wingnut blurts out Teh Troof

59 Varek Raith  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 1:55:58pm

re: #58 Pie-onist Overlord

LOLWUT wingnut blurts out Teh Troof

[Embedded content]

Hahahaha.

60 Decatur Deb  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 1:56:45pm

re: #58 Pie-onist Overlord

LOLWUT wingnut blurts out Teh Troof

[Embedded content]

That kind of clarity is often toxic to the RW mind. Guess she’s immune.

62 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 1:58:05pm

re: #61 Killgore Trout

Cenk Uygur Tells RT Anchor That Her Network’s More Tolerant than MSNBC
lol

We need a Ministry of Fairness and Balance!

63 HappyWarrior  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 1:58:09pm

re: #58 Pie-onist Overlord

LOLWUT wingnut blurts out Teh Troof

[Embedded content]

You could have actually ran a candidate against him that tried to be likable. Oh wait, you couldn’t even do that so you instead engage in phony conspiracy theories about his place of birth knowing that it’s bs.

64 Targetpractice  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 1:58:32pm

re: #46 Bubblehead II

Next up on the annexation menu. Moldova

Moldova’s Trans-Dniester region pleads to join Russia

Pro-Russian politicians and activists in Moldova’s breakaway Trans-Dniester region have asked the Russian parliament to draft a law that would allow their territory to join Russia.

I can’t imagine that all these little breakaways joining Russia, bringing in their financial situations and their physical needs (Crimea was dependent on Ukraine for virtually all of its major needs) is going to do a lot of good for the Russian economy in the long term.

65 b.d.  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 1:59:00pm

re: #61 Killgore Trout

Cenk Uygur Tells RT Anchor That Her Network’s More Tolerant than MSNBC
lol

[chris matthews] HA! [/chris matthews]

66 Charles Johnson  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 1:59:34pm

I love that Cenk Uygur is trying to pretend he’s a victim because he criticized Obama… no, Cenk. You were fired because you have a remarkably unpleasant personality.

67 Pie-onist Overlord  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 2:00:29pm

re: #60 Decatur Deb

That kind of clarity is often toxic to the RW mind. Guess she’s immune.

A sociopath like the Glennbots.

68 Charles Johnson  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 2:00:33pm

If Cenk Uygur’s ratings had taken off, he’s still be on MSNBC. They tanked because he’s a very unappealing host.

69 HappyWarrior  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 2:01:19pm

re: #68 Charles Johnson

If Cenk Uygur’s ratings had taken off, he’s still be on MSNBC. They tanked because he’s a very unappealing host.

Precisely but don’t let that get in the way of someone having a massive victim complex

70 palmerskiss  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 2:01:54pm

re: #68 Charles Johnson

he seems to appeal to a certain type of liberal 20 something male …..

71 HappyWarrior  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 2:02:40pm

re: #70 palmerskiss

he seems to appeal to a certain type of liberal 20 something male …..

Not this one. Can’t stand it when the right engages in phony victimhood stuff and I’ll be damned if someone on my side does it too.

72 freetoken  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 2:02:51pm

Fashion in hair - I understand.
Fashion in clothes - I understand.
Fashion in music - I understand, even if I don’t like the results.

Fashion in “journalism” - currently about proclaiming victimization at the hands of Obama while butt-kissing propaganda machines - that’s just weird.

73 Dr. Matt  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 2:03:45pm

re: #66 Charles Johnson

I love that Cenk Uygur is trying to pretend he’s a victim because he criticized Obama… no, Cenk. You were fired because you have a remarkably unpleasant personality.

The Cenk Uygur’s of the world believe they are “principled” and would be fine seeing the Republicans take over the White House because of their “principles”. These are the same people that wouldn’t support Senator Obama because they were in Hillary’s camp. These are the same people that sat home in 2010 because President Obama didn’t buy them a pony. These are the same people that will allow a Rand Paul win the presidency because a “pure liberal” wasn’t on the Democratic ticket.

74 Dr Lizardo  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 2:04:40pm

re: #64 Targetpractice

I can’t imagine that all these little breakaways joining Russia, bringing in their financial situations and their physical needs (Crimea was dependent on Ukraine for virtually all of its major needs) is going to do a lot of good for the Russian economy in the long term.

And that’s the downside; a lot of these regions that want to go back into the embrace of Mother Russia are, quite bluntly, very poor and that’s going to put a strain on Mother Russia’s purse.

There’s also Russia’s demographic situation; from what I understand even though it’s ticked up the last couple of years, Russia total fertility rate (TFR) is 1.7, which is below replacement rate. Some regions are better than others, and back in 2012, Putin admitted that Russian population growth in the future would come from immigration. They had a significant baby bust in the 1990s and those women are now hitting their childbearing years. Long-term, their situation is similar to the Czech Republic - the TFR is 1.41, also below replacement rate. In my city, Ostrava, it was recently projected that by 2025 (a little over a decade from now) the population of the city will decline by 25%, and possibly as much as one-third.

So long-term, Russia’s position isn’t that good.

75 Justanotherhuman  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 2:05:07pm

re: #68 Charles Johnson

If Cenk Uygur’s ratings had taken off, he’s still be on MSNBC. They tanked because he’s a very unappealing host.

He’s just another smug dudebro.

76 palmerskiss  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 2:05:24pm

re: #72 freetoken

Fashion in hair - I understand.
Fashion in clothes - I understand.
Fashion in music - I understand, even if I don’t like the results.

Fashion in “journalism” - currently about proclaiming victimization at the hands of Obama while butt-kissing propaganda machines - that’s just weird.

fashionable journalism, is pretty much what these “new media” outfits like “vox” and “first look media” are all about - because fashion is easier and more appealing than actual dirty news….

77 darthstar  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 2:05:41pm
78 HappyWarrior  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 2:05:57pm

re: #73 Dr. Matt

The Cenk Uygur’s of the world believe they are “principled” and would be fine seeing the Republicans take over the White House because of their “principles”. These are the same people that wouldn’t support Senator Obama because they were in Hillary’s camp. These are the same people that sat home in 2010 because President Obama didn’t buy them a pony. These are the same people that will allow a Rand Paul win the presidency because a “pure liberal” wasn’t on the Democratic ticket.

They kind of I think prove the circular political spectrum theory. Ideologically, yes they’re worlds different from the right but in their approach, they’re quite similiar and I’d say both are equally ignorant on how government actually should and does work. They’re never going to get their “True progressive” just like the right will never get their “true conservative.” Why? Because people are people. Lincoln had it right when he said you can’t please all the people all the time.

79 darthstar  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 2:06:33pm

Shoddy workmanship? You got it! I can’t believe they rolled out two inches of blacktop on dirt. That place will be a shithole by next spring.

80 A Mom Anon  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 2:07:02pm

re: #57 Justanotherhuman

Jane has said before she really considered herself a Goldwater type Republican. I swear, most of these so called lefties, if you dig below the surface are either libertarians or blue dog “democrats”. If things hadn’t shifted so far right over the last 20 yrs or so, none of these people would be considered anywhere near liberal/left wing.

I used to be a part of the FDL community before the whole Plame thing made Jane famous and she lost her mind(I was even there when it was a BlogSpot site). She drove a lot of really good people away when she opened the door to the nutbars.

81 EPR-radar  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 2:07:06pm

re: #73 Dr. Matt

The Cenk Uygur’s of the world believe they are “principled” and would be fine seeing the Republicans take over the White House because of their “principles”. These are the same people that wouldn’t support Senator Obama because they were in Hillary’s camp. These are the same people that sat home in 2010 because President Obama didn’t buy them a pony. These are the same people that will allow a Rand Paul win the presidency because a “pure liberal” wasn’t on the Democratic ticket.

This stuff isn’t hard. From any leftie (or even centrist) point of view, the US Republican party must be stopped at all costs. Working for better Democrats is important, but “more Democrats” is the really critical need at this time.

82 freetoken  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 2:09:22pm

The problem with so many neocons is that they believe their own rhetoric to the point of tautologies:

Condoleezza Rice: Crimea shows US can’t step back and let others lead

[…]

But I also believe that America can only lead abroad if we are strong here at home. This means we must always look inward and make sure that our democracy is providing the same opportunities that we are promoting abroad. Whether it’s good governance in Africa, human rights in the Middle East, or education and immigration issues here at home, we must lead in these issues both here at home and abroad.

GARDELS: The Economist recently ran a cover story on “Democracy, what went wrong?” - pointing out the recent overthrow of elected governments in Cairo and Kiev, but also pointing to the continuing gridlock in Washington. Why is democracy having such troubles?

RICE: I firmly believe that history has a long arc and democracy takes time. If you look back at the history of the United States, we’ve been through many times of trial and turmoil. We fought a Civil War, we’ve had challenges with civil rights and equality, we’ve gone through the Great Depression. Democracy is not easy and it’s certainly chaotic at points, but it’s the only form of government where people have the right to consent to be governed and elect their leaders.

[…]

83 palmerskiss  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 2:09:57pm

off-topic - Was wondering if Charles or anyone could tell me the font used in the LGF header and typeface please?

84 Bubblehead II  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 2:10:58pm

re: #53 Varek Raith

Transnistria

Which is why I figure it’s going to be next.re: #64 Targetpractice

I can’t imagine that all these little breakaways joining Russia, bringing in their financial situations and their physical needs (Crimea was dependent on Ukraine for virtually all of its major needs) is going to do a lot of good for the Russian economy in the long term.

Don’t know about the long term repercussions these annexations are going to have, but in the short term, as pointed out up thread it appeases the Russian Nationalists, pisses off the U.S. and probably more importantly, provides Russia proper with buffer zones between it and the EU/Nato leaning Nations.

85 Dr Lizardo  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 2:11:03pm

re: #79 darthstar

Shoddy workmanship? You got it! I can’t believe they rolled out two inches of blacktop on dirt. That place will be a shithole by next spring.

By next spring, large parts of that place will likely be unfit for habitation. It was nothing more than an oversized Potemkin Village.

86 Decatur Deb  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 2:12:34pm

re: #82 freetoken

The problem with so many neocons is that they believe their own rhetoric to the point of tautologies:

Condoleezza Rice: Crimea shows US can’t step back and let others lead

Then why the hell isn’t she a Democrat? They even let them join the Birmingham Country Club.

87 Charles Johnson  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 2:12:49pm

re: #83 palmerskiss

off-topic - Was wondering if Charles or anyone could tell me the font used in the LGF header and typeface please?

You mean the logo? That’s ITC Kabel, I think Medium weight.

88 darthstar  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 2:13:05pm

re: #85 Dr Lizardo

By next spring, large parts of that place will likely be unfit for habitation. It was nothing more than an oversized Potemkin Village.

That’s my guess as well. The streets and sidewalks will be impassable except by foot. And they’re only a couple of good winter storms away from seeing how well those buildings will stand.

89 Dr. Matt  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 2:13:06pm

re: #81 EPR-radar

This stuff isn’t hard. From any leftie (or even centrist) point of view, the US Republican party must be stopped at all costs. Working for better Democrats is important, but “more Democrats” is the really critical need at this time.

Simply to remove Republicans from important Committee Chairs (e.g, Issa) is reason enough to vote for even Blue Dogs.

90 Pie-onist Overlord  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 2:13:15pm

I went to a Sears store today to get a replacement part for my vacuum cleaner. I had heard about how fucked up Sears has become, but seeing the reality in a once thriving mall anchor store was more than depressing.

It was so sad.

91 b.d.  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 2:13:35pm

YouTube star doesn’t translate over to TV, blames TV.

92 Lidane  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 2:14:21pm

re: #81 EPR-radar

This stuff isn’t hard. From any leftie (or even centrist) point of view, the US Republican party must be stopped at all costs. Working for better Democrats is important, but “more Democrats” is the really critical need at this time.

THIS. It’s not about ideological purity. It’s simply a numbers game. More Democrats = good. More RWNJs = bad.

It’s why I was amused to read about the emoprogs demanding to know why Kos was at his own goddamn blog if not to get a True Progressive elected. He’s said for years he doesn’t give a shit about purity. He just wants to win.

93 palmerskiss  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 2:15:50pm

re: #87 Charles Johnson

You mean the logo? That’s ITC Kabel, I think Medium weight.

Thank you - yes exactly what i was looking for - i’m making some headers and images for the world cup that so i can make a primer for people who are not familiar with soccer or the world cup - and hoping to make it logical and linear using an image click through system

:)

94 brennant  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 2:16:35pm

re: #79 darthstar

Listen, lad, I built this kingdom up from nothing. All I had when I started was swamp … other kings said I was daft to build a castle on a swamp, but I built it all the same … just to show ‘em. It sank into the swamp. So I built a another one … that sank into the swamp. I built another one … That fell over and THEN sank into the swamp …. So I built another … and that stayed up. … And that’s what your gonna get, lad: the most powerful kingdom in this island.

95 b.d.  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 2:16:53pm

re: #92 Lidane

THIS. It’s not about ideological purity. It’s simply a numbers game. More Democrats = good. More RWNJs = bad.

It’s why I was amused to read about the emoprogs demanding to know why Kos was at his own goddamn blog if not to get a True Progressive elected. He’s said for years he doesn’t give a shit about purity. He just wants to win.

The little emoprog uprising disruption over at DailyKos against the tyrant kos and his regime is rather pathetic, he should flip the switch for a day or two.

96 Justanotherhuman  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 2:17:25pm

re: #90 Pie-onist Overlord

I went to a Sears store today to get a replacement part for my vacuum cleaner. I had heard about how fucked up Sears has become, but seeing the reality in a once thriving mall anchor store was more than depressing.

It was so sad.

Like Charles says, “Libertarianism poisons everything.”

I still have a Kenmore food processor my kids bought me for my birthday (hey, they loved my cooking) from around 1980. Blades still sharp, motor will probably never wear out. The white is somewhat discolored now, but function over cosmetics for me.

97 Testy Toad T  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 2:19:37pm

re: #95 b.d.

The little emoprog uprising disruption over at DailyKos against the tyrant kos and his regime is rather pathetic, he should flip the switch for a day or two.

Say what you will about Markos Moulitsas, but he is a worldly, experienced, traveled adult with a cogent sense of perspective.

Some of his erstwhile legions… aren’t.

98 Dr Lizardo  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 2:20:35pm

re: #90 Pie-onist Overlord

I went to a Sears store today to get a replacement part for my vacuum cleaner. I had heard about how fucked up Sears has become, but seeing the reality in a once thriving mall anchor store was more than depressing.

It was so sad.

What was it like? I worked for Sears in the early to mid 1990s.

99 freetoken  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 2:20:59pm

re: #90 Pie-onist Overlord

I don’t doubt that Lampert has been bad for Sears.

However, all the old American department stores have either failed or been radically changed in the age of Walmart and then online retail.

I’d much rather shop at Amazon than Sears. I buy incidental personal products at Target instead of my local drug store (we still have a few around here.)

If (and I believe it is a matter of “when”) our society returns to living within much closer physical horizons, then the local retail store will again be a thing of pride.

100 Charles Johnson  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 2:22:02pm
101 Aunty Entity Dragon  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 2:22:03pm

re: #90 Pie-onist Overlord

I went to a Sears store today to get a replacement part for my vacuum cleaner. I had heard about how fucked up Sears has become, but seeing the reality in a once thriving mall anchor store was more than depressing.

It was so sad.

Funny how trying to run a store to Randian superman principles fucks things up…

102 wrenchwench  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 2:22:07pm

Cyclist is sideswiped by truck. Truck loses its load (a mattress) and cyclist lands on it. All the action is 20 seconds in, except getting the bike out from under.

Youtube Video

/back to the 20 dirty bikes for the ladies touring across the country….

103 Pie-onist Overlord  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 2:22:44pm

re: #98 Dr Lizardo

What was it like? I worked for Sears in the early to mid 1990s.

Empty, lonely and full of pain.

104 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 2:22:55pm
105 Lidane  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 2:23:12pm

Oh geez. Now that my interview is over the anxiety has started.

I keep replaying one of the questions over in my head. I was asked if I’d been actively looking for work since leaving my last gig. I said that while I took a little bit of time to figure out my next move, it’s been a steady process of looking ever since, including several interviews and screens. Is it going to kill my chances that I was honest with him and admitted that I’ve been looking steadily all this time instead of saying something like I’d taken freelance work or whatever? Or am I just being paranoid?

106 sattv4u2  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 2:23:29pm

re: #90 Pie-onist Overlord

I went to a Sears store today to get a replacement part for my vacuum cleaner. I had heard about how fucked up Sears has become, but seeing the reality in a once thriving mall anchor store was more than depressing.

It was so sad.

Sears’ problem stared when it steadfastly refused to stock/ sell “name” brands alongside their own lines for years. When they finally relented, the parade had passed them by.

107 Pie-onist Overlord  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 2:24:10pm

re: #99 freetoken

I don’t doubt that Lampert has been bad for Sears.

However, all the old American department stores have either failed or been radically changed in the age of Walmart and then online retail.

I’d much rather shop at Amazon than Sears. I buy incidental personal products at Target instead of my local drug store (we still have a few around here.)

If (and I believe it is a matter of “when”) our society returns to living within much closer physical horizons, then the local retail store will again be a thing of pride.

I want a new fridge. I browsed the refrigerators at Sears, but they were full of sadness and pain.

I will get a new fridge at Best Buy.

108 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 2:24:14pm
109 thedopefishlives  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 2:24:19pm

Afternoon Lizardim from the weird and wonderful wild north country. So it looks like Ukraine is trying its damndest to avoid WWIII, although it may be to no avail. We shall have to wait and see. How go things among the lizardfolk?

110 Political Atheist  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 2:24:42pm

re: #15 Charles Johnson

In all situations like this, you simply have to make a gain/loss calculation, and it isn’t worth the cost to plunge that part of Eastern Europe into a bloody conflict and interrupt the natural gas supply. Some people seem to think the right way to respond is to get all puffed up and issue threats of war, but the fact is that nobody is going to go to war over this.

Just leaves everyone wondering where the red line is apart from NATO members. If there is one.

111 wrenchwench  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 2:24:46pm

re: #105 Lidane

Oh geez. Now that my interview is over the anxiety has started.

I keep replaying one of the questions over in my head. I was asked if I’d been actively looking for work since leaving my last gig. I said that while I took a little bit of time to figure out my next move, it’s been a steady process of looking ever since, including several interviews and screens. Is it going to kill my chances that I was honest with him and admitted that I’ve been looking steadily all this time instead of saying something like I’d taken freelance work or whatever? Or am I just being paranoid?

Honesty shows, and dishonesty would have also. Relax, just replay the good parts in your head.

112 EPR-radar  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 2:24:59pm

re: #105 Lidane

Oh geez. Now that my interview is over the anxiety has started.

I keep replaying one of the questions over in my head. I was asked if I’d been actively looking for work since leaving my last gig. I said that while I took a little bit of time to figure out my next move, it’s been a steady process of looking ever since, including several interviews and screens. Is it going to kill my chances that I was honest with him and admitted that I’ve been looking steadily all this time instead of saying something like I’d taken freelance work or whatever? Or am I just being paranoid?

I think this is being too nervous —- only an idiot would be so ignorant of the reality of this economy as to be honestly surprised/concerned about a job applicant having searched a long time.

113 Aunty Entity Dragon  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 2:25:58pm

re: #103 Pie-onist Overlord

Empty, lonely and full of pain.

I was shocked at how bad the stores look now. Same thing at KMart (same owners)

Our local Kmart kicked ass 10 years ago. This used to be a big box store and it had the best meat department in the area with in store butchers.

Now…it is a shell of what it used to be. A management team from Chicago came and gutted the place.

114 sattv4u2  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 2:26:23pm

re: #107 Pie-onist Overlord

I want a new fridge. I browsed the refrigerators at Sears, but they were full of sadness and pain.

I will get a new fridge at Best Buy.

I still get Craftsman handtools when I need something, but power tools, I go for more industrious brands nowadays

115 Decatur Deb  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 2:26:39pm

re: #98 Dr Lizardo

What was it like? I worked for Sears in the early to mid 1990s.

In the early 60s I worked for the studio that did about half the Sears catalog. Before photography, they were illustrated with masterful line drawings, some by my boss. Nature never wanted Sears to be a store—they were mailorder, the Amazon of their day.

116 Kragar  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 2:27:23pm

re: #105 Lidane

Oh geez. Now that my interview is over the anxiety has started.

I keep replaying one of the questions over in my head. I was asked if I’d been actively looking for work since leaving my last gig. I said that while I took a little bit of time to figure out my next move, it’s been a steady process of looking ever since, including several interviews and screens. Is it going to kill my chances that I was honest with him and admitted that I’ve been looking steadily all this time instead of saying something like I’d taken freelance work or whatever? Or am I just being paranoid?

You’re being paranoid.

When I walked out of my clearance interview, I was convinced I’d be denied and out looking for a job by the end of the month. Didn’t relax till it came through successfully.

117 Justanotherhuman  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 2:27:38pm

re: #113 Aunty Entity Dragon

I was shocked at how bad the stores look now. Same thing at KMart (same owners)

Our local Kmart kicked ass 10 years ago. This used to be a big box store and it had the best meat department in the area with in store butchers.

Now…it is a shell of what it used to be. A management team from Chicago came and gutted the place.

They totally gutted the only one within 50 miles of me. It’s closed.

118 Lidane  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 2:28:08pm

re: #112 EPR-radar

I think this is being too nervous —- only an idiot would be so ignorant of the reality of this economy as to be honestly surprised/concerned about a job applicant having searched a long time.

True. I guess it’s just because after we finished talking I saw one of those “Ten Things Never to Say In An Interview!” things on LinkedIn. One of them was to never admit you’ve been looking for a while because the hiring manager will wonder what’s wrong with you. It definitely didn’t help my nerves. =/

119 thedopefishlives  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 2:28:13pm

re: #114 sattv4u2

I still get Craftsman handtools when I need something, but power tools, I go for more industrious brands nowadays

Can’t beat Craftsman for hand tools, for sure. That’s about the only thing I’d even want to go to Sears for.

120 sattv4u2  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 2:28:38pm

re: #115 Decatur Deb

In the early 60s I worked for the studio that did about half the Sears catalog. Before photography, they were illustrated with masterful line drawings, some by my boss. Nature never wanted Sears to be a store—they were mailorder, the Amazon of their day.

Did you etch the illustrations on tablets, or had paper/ pen been invented by that time!?!?!

121 Pie-onist Overlord  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 2:28:59pm

re: #105 Lidane

Oh geez. Now that my interview is over the anxiety has started.

I keep replaying one of the questions over in my head. I was asked if I’d been actively looking for work since leaving my last gig. I said that while I took a little bit of time to figure out my next move, it’s been a steady process of looking ever since, including several interviews and screens. Is it going to kill my chances that I was honest with him and admitted that I’ve been looking steadily all this time instead of saying something like I’d taken freelance work or whatever? Or am I just being paranoid?

Don’t second guess yourself.

What I do before an interview is make up a list of questions that I want to ask them. Also prepare answers to some of the more common questions that you are likely to be asked, like, “What appeals to you about our company” and “What are your strengths and weaknesses.” When talking about a “weakness” ALWAYS mention some specific skill WHERE THEY CAN SEND YOU FOR TRAINING. That shows you are eager to learn and try new things. Do not talk about social failures or other “weaknesses” that can’t be improved or corrected.

122 Lidane  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 2:29:26pm

re: #116 Kragar

You’re being paranoid.

When I walked out of my clearance interview, I was convinced I’d be denied and out looking for a job by the end of the month. Didn’t relax till it came through successfully.

Thanks. I know on some level I’m just being paranoid, but I can’t help it. I really want this gig.

123 Decatur Deb  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 2:29:33pm

re: #105 Lidane

Oh geez. Now that my interview is over the anxiety has started.

I keep replaying one of the questions over in my head. I was asked if I’d been actively looking for work since leaving my last gig. I said that while I took a little bit of time to figure out my next move, it’s been a steady process of looking ever since, including several interviews and screens. Is it going to kill my chances that I was honest with him and admitted that I’ve been looking steadily all this time instead of saying something like I’d taken freelance work or whatever? Or am I just being paranoid?

You might be paranoid, maybe schizophrenic with an overlay of mopery. More likely just alcohol-deficient.

124 Dr Lizardo  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 2:29:45pm

re: #115 Decatur Deb

In the early 60s I worked for the studio that did about half the Sears catalog. Before photography, they were illustrated with masterful line drawings, some by my boss. Nature never wanted Sears to be a store—they were mailorder, the Amazon of their day.

Indeed, they were the Amazon of their era.

Sort of sad to see an American retailing legend bite the dust; but under their incompetent management, I suppose it’s inevitable.

I guess the 90s were the last gasp for Sears - it was all downhill from there.

125 freetoken  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 2:29:48pm

HuffPo reruns (and why not - they don’t really pay anything for the content) the SciAm piece by Michael Mann:

Earth Will Cross the Climate Danger Threshold by 2036

My take is that Mann is taking a few too many liberties in hand waving, especially in the part:

Most scientists concur that two degrees C of warming above the temperature during preindustrial time would harm all sectors of civilization—food, water, health, land, national security, energy and economic prosperity.

That “2 degrees” limit is rather arbitrary. You can pick any limit you want and come up with a set of probably effects. “Harm” is also a relative term. As noted with the Sears example, one company’s “harm” is another man’s gain.

126 AntonSirius  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 2:31:15pm

re: #58 Pie-onist Overlord

LOLWUT wingnut blurts out Teh Troof

“…we just need a reason to legally invalidate his presidency”

It’s called an election, lady. And your side lost.

127 Decatur Deb  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 2:31:27pm

re: #120 sattv4u2

Did you etch the illustrations on tablets, or had paper/ pen been invented by that time!?!?!

Just about that bad. The first color line I worked was Ektachrome E-2.

128 Political Atheist  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 2:31:49pm

re: #122 Lidane

Thanks. I know on some level I’m just being paranoid, but I can’t help it. I really want this gig.

No matter what, don’t beat yourself up. When good people miss the nod that’s poor hiring skills, not poor candidates.

129 Killgore Trout  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 2:32:24pm

re: #92 Lidane

THIS. It’s not about ideological purity. It’s simply a numbers game. More Democrats = good. More RWNJs = bad.

It’s why I was amused to read about the emoprogs demanding to know why Kos was at his own goddamn blog if not to get a True Progressive elected. He’s said for years he doesn’t give a shit about purity. He just wants to win.

Dkos used to be fairly good on nuts and bolts politics; looking at the polls in obscure districts, GOTV campaigns, etc. They don’t do much of that anymore. I think engaging in the Culture Wars, “framing the debate” and cable news have been toxic to everyone involved.

130 Lidane  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 2:32:56pm

re: #123 Decatur Deb

More likely just alcohol-deficient.

This is a good point. I have some vodka in the freezer. Maybe a shot of that will kill this stupidity. =P

131 A Mom Anon  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 2:33:14pm

re: #105 Lidane

Breathe. You did your best, if they don’t hire you, they’re idiots. So there. ha.

Seriously though, the job market is insane right now. The Husband is looking while working a crapola job. Had an interview last week. Aced the maintenance test (not surprising since he wrote several of those tests in his past work life), now the company is deciding if a guy who has done this work for 30 years is worth paying a paltry 50K a year. Maybe 52K if they’re feeling generous. He’s making just under 50 now, no bonuses no overtime pay. Salary. He works at least 50 hours a week and most weekends. His “holiday bonus” was a cheap ass fleece pullover with the company logo on it. His last cash bonus was a super exciting extra 20 dollars in his paycheck. Seriously, WTF.

You at least have an education and experience in a more lucrative field. You’re smart and qualified. You’re going to find a great job soon.

132 freetoken  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 2:33:28pm

And… the reason why appears today in Nature:

Hominin explorers were poor planners

Hominin migrations, such as those out of Africa, might have been led by individuals with low levels of foresight.

[…]

133 palmerskiss  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 2:34:40pm

Here Charles - just a quick mock up : Image: begw.jpg

134 Charles Johnson  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 2:36:08pm
135 Charles Johnson  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 2:36:39pm

re: #133 palmerskiss

Very nice!

136 Killgore Trout  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 2:36:41pm

…and really, you aren’t going to get more of a “true progressive” elected than Obama. If you aren’t happy with his level of progressiveness you are never going to be happy. Even if some miracle occurs and the genetically engineered child of Ralph Nader and Ron Paul gets elected you are quickly going to be sorry you ever wished for it.

137 dog philosopher  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 2:36:58pm

re: #105 Lidane

Oh geez. Now that my interview is over the anxiety has started.

I keep replaying one of the questions over in my head. I was asked if I’d been actively looking for work since leaving my last gig. I said that while I took a little bit of time to figure out my next move, it’s been a steady process of looking ever since, including several interviews and screens. Is it going to kill my chances that I was honest with him and admitted that I’ve been looking steadily all this time instead of saying something like I’d taken freelance work or whatever? Or am I just being paranoid?

your whole frame of mind is so familiar to me - i go over the interviews afterwards in the same way

but there is no way to tell what kind of an impression you made until you get some feedback - i try to relax and not worry about it

138 AntonSirius  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 2:37:25pm

re: #90 Pie-onist Overlord

I went to a Sears store today to get a replacement part for my vacuum cleaner. I had heard about how fucked up Sears has become, but seeing the reality in a once thriving mall anchor store was more than depressing.

It was so sad.

Ideally, in a few more years the only possible answer to any schmuck who proclaims something should be run on libertarian/Objectivist principles will be “Oh, you mean like Sears?”

139 Varek Raith  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 2:37:56pm

re: #102 wrenchwench

Cyclist is sideswiped by truck. Truck loses its load (a mattress) and cyclist lands on it. All the action is 20 seconds in, except getting the bike out from under.

[Embedded content]

/back to the 20 dirty bikes for the ladies touring across the country….

Probably laughing their ass off.

140 Decatur Deb  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 2:38:40pm

re: #136 Killgore Trout

…and really, you aren’t going to get more of a “true progressive” elected than Obama. If you aren’t happy with his level of progressiveness you are never going to be happy. Even if some miracle occurs and the genetically engineered child of Ralph Nader and Ron Paul gets elected you are quickly going to be sorry you ever wished for it.

We could do better, but not in my lifetime.

141 Pie-onist Overlord  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 2:40:26pm

re: #138 AntonSirius

Ideally, in a few more years the only possible answer to any schmuck who proclaims something should be run on libertarian/Objectivist principles will be “Oh, you mean like Sears?”

Ayn Rand never ran a business in her life. I don’t know why her cult followers think her shitty novels are a good business model.

Why don’t these self-proclaimed “Christians” use the New Testament as a business model? (“Sell what thou hast and give to the poor”)

142 AntonSirius  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 2:42:17pm

re: #102 wrenchwench

Cyclist is sideswiped by truck. Truck loses its load (a mattress) and cyclist lands on it. All the action is 20 seconds in, except getting the bike out from under.

Somewhere in heaven, Buster Keaton is stone-faced as ever but smiling on the inside.

143 Kragar  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 2:43:19pm

A show I’d like to see:

A short season (6-10 episode) show based on H.P. Lovecraft stories. Have the central setting being Arkham and Miskatonic university, with only a few keystone characters, but otherwise switch up the cast every season. They could do “The Dunwich Horror”, “The Shadow over Innsmouth”, “The case of Charles Dexter Ward” building up over each episode. They could also throw in some of the shorter stories like “Pickman’s Mode”l or “The Terrible Old Man” as one shot or filler episodes.

144 Backwoods_Sleuth  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 2:43:27pm

OK, now they’ve gone and done it…

<script async src=”//platform.twitter.com” charset=”utf-8”></script>

145 EPR-radar  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 2:43:44pm

re: #140 Decatur Deb

We could do better, but not in my lifetime.

Congress is the real problem. The GOP is collectively insane, and the Democrats have drifted to the right far enough that a numerical majority for the Democrats in Congress has to be substantial before major intra-party differences can be overcome.

146 Decatur Deb  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 2:44:40pm

We finally got a Dem challenger to our wicked witch of a TPGOP US Representative. He’s a moron.

Dem Candidate Sat On The Toilet To Let Young Voters Know He’s A ‘Regular Person’

huffingtonpost.com

147 Varek Raith  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 2:46:07pm

re: #146 Decatur Deb

We finally got a Dem challenger to our wicked witch of a TPGOP US Representative. He’s a moron.


Dem Candidate Sat On The Toilet To Let Young Voters Know He’s A ‘Regular Person’

huffingtonpost.com

…
Okely dokely kookarino.

148 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 2:46:34pm

re: #129 Killgore Trout

Dkos used to be fairly good on nuts and bolts politics; looking at the polls in obscure districts, GOTV campaigns, etc. They don’t do much of that anymore. I think engaging in the Culture Wars, “framing the debate” and cable news have been toxic to everyone involved.

Here’s a quick spin through some Dkos headlines.

Craziest person in Illinois wins Republican primary

That’s about an obscure district campaign.

No, there’s still no House Republican Obamacare replacement plan

Nothing to do with the ‘culture war’—which is, again, something only being fought by the GOP—at all.

Boehner looking to kill unemployment deal rather than fix it

You don’t get a lot more nuts and bolts than reporting on legislation.

Breaking news: Hillary isn’t as young as she was 20 years ago

This one is arguably ‘culture wars’, in that the GOP is mysogynistic as fuck and is going to hold Hillary to a different standard than men because of age.

New York McDonald’s workers to get $500,000 wage theft settlement

Nothing to do with culture wars.

McConnell fundraiser: Wives owe their husbands sex even if they’re not in the mood

I guess that is ‘culture war’, again, only being fought by the GOP. Don’t see how reporting on this shit is poisonous, though.

Daily Kos Elections Morning Digest: RGA pushes latest bogus Obamacare horror story in South Carolina

Nuts and bolts politics about elections.

Economics Daily Digest: Society doesn’t work on a volunteer basis

Various nuts and bolts stories about economics in the US.

Students kicked out of Christie town hall for asking about Sandy aid

Town halls are nuts, they are also quite bolty.

White House trying to salvage surgeon general nomination

Appointments: Nuts and bolts.

149 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 2:47:32pm

re: #136 Killgore Trout

…and really, you aren’t going to get more of a “true progressive” elected than Obama. If you aren’t happy with his level of progressiveness you are never going to be happy. Even if some miracle occurs and the genetically engineered child of Ralph Nader and Ron Paul gets elected you are quickly going to be sorry you ever wished for it.

Ron Paul isn’t a progressive in any way, shape, or form, at all. Ralph Nader is pretty much a one trick pony.

Oh yeah, it’s Killgore, not meant to be taken as a factual statement.

150 thedopefishlives  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 2:48:02pm

re: #144 Backwoods_Sleuth

OK, now they’ve gone and done it…

[Embedded content]

Go and ask the Africans what happens when the womenfolk get involved. You really didn’t think this through, did you, Putin?

151 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 2:49:08pm

…

152 Justanotherhuman  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 2:49:40pm

More Republican outreach.

Boehner Rejects Senate Unemployment Extension Bill (Updated)

blogs.rollcall.com

Updated 4:41 p.m. | Speaker John A. Boehner signaled Wednesday the House will not take up a bipartisan Senate bill to temporarily extend emergency unemployment insurance benefits.

The Ohio Republican posted a statement on his blog, reacting to a letter from the National Association of State Workforce Agencies warning the Senate unemployment bill would take most states one to three months to implement and create new bureaucratic requirements that would be “virtually impossible” to enforce retroactively.

(snip)

“After Boehner’s statement, the top Republican author of the Senate bill slammed what he called the latest “excuse” to deny benefits and a spokesman for Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., urged Boehner to come to the table to deal with his concerns.”

153 Jack Burton  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 2:49:43pm

re: #144 Backwoods_Sleuth

OK, now they’ve gone and done it…

[Embedded content]

There will be an Army of Умпа Лумпас to defend the place.

/

154 AntonSirius  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 2:49:46pm

re: #132 freetoken

And… the reason why appears today in Nature:

Hominin explorers were poor planners

How sad. Now even Nature is stooping to ad hominin attacks.

Ba-dum-bum (chhh!)

155 Jack Burton  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 2:50:01pm

re: #153 Jack Burton

Dammit… no Cyrillic apparently.

156 thedopefishlives  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 2:50:21pm

re: #154 AntonSirius

How sad. Now even Nature is stooping to ad hominin attacks.

Ba-dum-bum (chhh!)

*WHACK!*

157 AntonSirius  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 2:51:08pm

re: #141 Pie-onist Overlord

Ayn Rand never ran a business in her life. I don’t know why her cult followers think her shitty novels are a good business model.

Because they are self-absorbed, empathy-deficient morons.

158 Varek Raith  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 2:51:09pm

re: #154 AntonSirius

How sad. Now even Nature is stooping to ad hominin attacks.

Ba-dum-bum (chhh!)

159 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 2:54:40pm

re: #90 Pie-onist Overlord

With the way CEO pay is set up, nobody has any incentive to improve. One CEO runs the company into a ditch and gets a $5 million “severance” package. So they offer all these lavish compensation schemes to the next CEO who they think is going to be the Luke Skywalker they’ve been waiting for. When it turns out that the only thing the new CEO did was set fire to the wreckage left by the previous one, the new guy will still get the $10 million package he negotiated, because that’s what we have to do to attract all these gloriously talented captains of industry.

One loses count of the number of “CEO Fucks Up Everything, Leaves To Head Consulting Firm” stories that come across the wire time and again.

160 Lidane  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 2:54:44pm

re: #141 Pie-onist Overlord

Ayn Rand never ran a business in her life. I don’t know why her cult followers think her shitty novels are a good business model.

Because creative individual refusing to be held down by the collective moochers in society. They’d rather destroy their own creations than let the unworthy ride on their coattails.

161 Jack Burton  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 2:55:40pm

re: #141 Pie-onist Overlord

Ayn Rand never ran a business in her life. I don’t know why her cult followers think her shitty novels are a good business model.

Why don’t these self-proclaimed “Christians” use the New Testament as a business model? (“Sell what thou hast and give to the poor”)

It’s the same people that think a gynecologist and USAF flight surgeon is a wizard-level expert on macroeconomics and monetary policy.

162 thedopefishlives  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 2:57:23pm

re: #159 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce

With the way CEO pay is set up, nobody has any incentive to improve. One CEO runs the company into a ditch and gets a $5 million “severance” package. So they offer all these lavish compensation schemes to the next CEO who they think is going to be the Luke Skywalker they’ve been waiting for. When it turns out that the only thing the new CEO did was set fire to the wreckage left by the previous one, the new guy will still get the $10 million package he negotiated, because that’s what we have to do to attract all these gloriously talented captains of industry.

One loses count of the number of “CEO Fucks Up Everything, Leaves To Head Consulting Firm” stories that come across the wire time and again.

Yeah, I never understood how paying a guy to get fired was supposed to work well for anybody except the guy getting fired. The only guys you’re going to attract with a package like that are guys who have no intention of doing anything except collecting the money and running.

163 EPR-radar  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 2:57:57pm

re: #159 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce

With the way CEO pay is set up, nobody has any incentive to improve. One CEO runs the company into a ditch and gets a $5 million “severance” package. So they offer all these lavish compensation schemes to the next CEO who they think is going to be the Luke Skywalker they’ve been waiting for. When it turns out that the only thing the new CEO did was set fire to the wreckage left by the previous one, the new guy will still get the $10 million package he negotiated, because that’s what we have to do to attract all these gloriously talented captains of industry.

One loses count of the number of “CEO Fucks Up Everything, Leaves To Head Consulting Firm” stories that come across the wire time and again.

Too true. It cracks me up when I hear or read anyone treating “corporate governance” as anything other than the pathetic and terribly expensive joke it so clearly is.

164 thedopefishlives  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 3:00:06pm

My favorite part about the CEO culture is how they pay millions of dollars to “market experts” to have them turn around and tell their businesses how they need to pay their talented CEOs millions of dollars and offer golden parachutes in order to retain them. If you ask me, the only talent they have is figuring out how to rig the system.

165 EPR-radar  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 3:01:37pm

re: #82 freetoken

Rice’s comments are very nearly as mindless as the Bill Kristol bilge from the other day, and she is not a stupid person.

Perhaps neo-con foreign policy literally spreads as a brain-eating virus.

166 EPR-radar  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 3:02:32pm

re: #164 thedopefishlives

My favorite part about the CEO culture is how they pay millions of dollars to “market experts” to have them turn around and tell their businesses how they need to pay their talented CEOs millions of dollars and offer golden parachutes in order to retain them. If you ask me, the only talent they have is figuring out how to rig the system.

“Executive compensation consultant” is a job title that is simply incomplete without the sneer quotes.

What a racket.

167 darthstar  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 3:10:16pm

re: #95 b.d.

The little emoprog uprising disruption over at DailyKos against the tyrant kos and his regime is rather pathetic, he should flip the switch for a day or two.

This is dKos crisis number 5 or 6 since I joined. A bunch of people will complain, say the site sucks, and leave, then Markos can get back to what he built the site for in the first place - organizing people around Democratic candidates.

Every couple of years one pet issue or another takes a group of ‘regulars’ out of circulation. Keeps the site fresh.

168 AntonSirius  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 3:12:52pm

re: #143 Kragar

A show I’d like to see:

A short season (6-10 episode) show based on H.P. Lovecraft stories. Have the central setting being Arkham and Miskatonic university, with only a few keystone characters, but otherwise switch up the cast every season. They could do “The Dunwich Horror”, “The Shadow over Innsmouth”, “The case of Charles Dexter Ward” building up over each episode. They could also throw in some of the shorter stories like “Pickman’s Mode”l or “The Terrible Old Man” as one shot or filler episodes.

The only “big” stories that I think might work on TV would be Shadow Over Innsmouth, The Color Out of Space and Thing on the Doorstep. All the other main pillars of the canon have some pretty big structural hurdles to overcome.

I honestly don’t think pure adaptations would play, though. You’d have to tinker with them somehow to make them work. There’s a reason the two best Lovecraftian things ever made for TV are Cast a Deadly Spell (the most underrated pastiche ever) and Harlan Ellison’s adaptation of Stephen King’s Gramma for the 80s Twilight Zone revival.

169 CuriousLurker  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 3:58:51pm

re: #66 Charles Johnson

I love that Cenk Uygur is trying to pretend he’s a victim because he criticized Obama… no, Cenk. You were fired because you have a remarkably unpleasant personality.

THIS.

170 CuriousLurker  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 4:15:33pm

re: #105 Lidane

Oh geez. Now that my interview is over the anxiety has started.

I keep replaying one of the questions over in my head. I was asked if I’d been actively looking for work since leaving my last gig. I said that while I took a little bit of time to figure out my next move, it’s been a steady process of looking ever since, including several interviews and screens. Is it going to kill my chances that I was honest with him and admitted that I’ve been looking steadily all this time instead of saying something like I’d taken freelance work or whatever? Or am I just being paranoid?

What everyone else said. Plus, just stop it—whatever is done is done—stressing out over it after the fact isn’t going to affect the outcome one iota. All it will do is raise your blood pressure and ruin the rest of your day.

171 Romantic Heretic  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 6:04:47pm

It’s not going to stop here. Bullies like Putin never stop, unless someone helps them.

You would think we humans would have put aside a foolish activity like war by now.

172 EPR-radar  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 6:09:24pm

re: #171 Romantic Heretic

It’s not going to stop here. Bullies like Putin never stop, unless someone helps them.

You would think we humans would have put aside a foolish activity like war by now.

IMO, Europe needs to lead the charge on this, for the simple reason that it is European states that will be gobbled up if Russia starts land-grabbing.

The US should get serious only if it is clear that Europe is also getting serious about this.

173 Dom  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 7:05:33pm

re: #1 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

And now for a lot of people to scowl and blame Obama and NATO and yet curiously never actually say what they’d have liked to have happen, but instead rely on tough-sounding phrases.

A few days back we had a debate in which you accused me of that, though I repeatedly said that NATO needs to assemble a credible force to man any borders with Russia.

That comment is a strange reaction. After Georgia NATO did squat, and now that it is too late for Crimea it is still not too late for NATO to establish a line of defence.

Frankly it is nothing to do with blaming Obama, and who cares if it is, to observe that NATO has not provided defences.

174 Dom  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 7:06:14pm

re: #172 EPR-radar

IMO, Europe needs to lead the charge on this, for the simple reason that it is European states that will be gobbled up if Russia starts land-grabbing.

The US should get serious only if it is clear that Europe is also getting serious about this.

The reason they won’t is that each country is vulnerable on its own and without the backup of America. No European power is a match for Russia.

175 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 7:59:50pm

re: #173 Dom

A few days back we had a debate in which you accused me of that, though I repeatedly said that NATO needs to assemble a credible force to man any borders with Russia.

I don’t know what a credible force means.

That comment is a strange reaction. After Georgia NATO did squat, and now that it is too late for Crimea it is still not too late for NATO to establish a line of defence.

Georgia and Ukraine aren’t NATO members.

176 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 8:00:23pm

re: #174 Dom

The reason they won’t is that each country is vulnerable on its own and without the backup of America. No European power is a match for Russia.

Germany could beat Russia. Not in nukes, obviously, or an invasion of Russia, but otherwise.

177 Dom  Wed, Mar 19, 2014 8:29:12pm

re: #175 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

I don’t know what a credible force means.

Georgia and Ukraine aren’t NATO members.

I said NATO should assemble a credible force to man Russia’s borders. It’s true I can’t really predict what agreements they will make, but they worked well and quickly in Kosovo. The reason I keep bringing it up is that without NATO, the key players are Vladimir Putin and the Ukrainian far-right, and nobody is lifting a finger to help the other Ukrainians of EuroMaidan and the Crimean Tatars, so if you have ideas when I run out of them please share.

I should think I’m entitled to those concerns and that suggestion without having to claim I know all the answers. If anyone knows all the answers please piss off, no one has all the answers.

re: #176 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

Germany could beat Russia. Not in nukes, obviously, or an invasion of Russia, but otherwise.

Germany needs Russian gas, and since we are talking about military deployments it is pertinent that you agree Germany has nothing on Russia there. After WWII most of Europe agreed to be pretty impotent and work with America in these matters, and it would be vital to have America on board. Presently EU states are applying sanctions.

Is it a coincidence that you had unrelated objections to each of my posts?

178 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Thu, Mar 20, 2014 3:35:37am

re: #177 Dom

I said NATO should assemble a credible force to man Russia’s borders.

And what does this actually, concretely mean?

The reason I keep bringing it up is that without NATO, the key players are Vladimir Putin and the Ukrainian far-right, and nobody is lifting a finger to help the other Ukrainians of EuroMaidan and the Crimean Tatars, so if you have ideas when I run out of them please share.

So you want them to man the borders, or actually intervene?

And no, I don’t have any ‘ideas’. I don’t think all problems are easily soluble. I didn’t have any ideas when Russia was the USSR, either.

Is it a coincidence that you had unrelated objections to each of my posts?

For fuck’s sake stop the paranoia.


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