Creationists Demand Airtime on ‘Cosmos’ for the Sake of Balance

“Creationists aren’t even on the radar screen”
Science • Views: 26,330

For some reason, they can’t understand why real scientists aren’t giving them equal time to spread their inane nonsense.

SoundCloud

Danny Faulkner of Answers In Genesis and the Creation Museum appeared on The Janet Mefferd Show yesterday to criticize Cosmos for not providing airtime for Creationism adherents. When Mefferd asked if Cosmos will “ever give a Creationist any time,” Faulkner responded by lamenting that “Creationists aren’t even on the radar screen for them, they wouldn’t even consider us plausible at all.”

Mefferd agreed that the show isn’t being very fair and balanced: “Boy, but when you have so many scientists who simply do not accept Darwinian evolution it seems to me that that might be something to throw in there, you know, the old, ‘some scientists say this, others disagree and think this,’ but that’s not even allowed.”

It’s almost like Cosmos wants to talk about real science..

More at Right Wing Watch: Creationists Demand Airtime on ‘Cosmos’ for the Sake of Balance

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197 comments
1 Zamb  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 11:33:17am
Mefferd agreed that the show isn’t being very fair and balanced: “Boy, but when you have so many scientists who simply do not accept Darwinian evolution it seems to me that that might be something to throw in there, you know, the old, ‘some scientists say this, others disagree and think this,’ but that’s not even allowed.”

Define scientists. Here’s a hint dentists are not scientists.

2 Jack Burton  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 11:36:37am
“Creationists aren’t even on the radar screen for them, they wouldn’t even consider us plausible at all.”

Correct. And?

“Boy, but when you have so many scientists who simply do not accept Darwinian evolution it seems to me that that might be something to throw in there…”

I guess it’s obvious that people that have no problem believing in a judgmental bipolar invisible man that lives in the clouds and controls everything have even less problem believing in imaginary invisible scientists who believe what they do too.

3 Political Atheist  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 11:41:52am

Okay so what evangelist will give Cosmos equal time at Sunday services?

These things do not belong together.

4 Skip Intro  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 11:48:56am

So what is the theory of creationism in it’s entirety?

God did it.

Evidence?

God did it.

How do you know.

The bible says so.

Fascinating stuff, that.

Meanwhile, I wonder if Carl Sagan had to deal with these lunatics back in the 1970s. I don’t believe he did, because back then people weren’t so openly stupid.

5 Testy Toad T  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 11:54:54am

I’ll quote myself.

I wonder if they think contraceptive discussions should get equal time in ostensibly abstinence-only sex-ed classes, for the sake of balance.

6 Kragar  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 11:55:16am

I’m waiting for them to claim Cosmos is violating their 1st Amendment rights.

7 Bulworth  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 11:55:57am
Mefferd agreed that the show isn’t being very fair and balanced: “Boy, but when you have so many scientists who simply do not accept Darwinian evolution it seems to me that that might be something to throw in there, you know, the old, ‘some scientists say this, others disagree and think this,’ but that’s not even allowed.”

So many!

Speaking of ‘fair and balanced’, was there one of those Darwinian scientist people on this here Mefferd radio show?

8 prairiefire  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 11:56:20am

Happy Friday, Lizards!

9 Testy Toad T  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 11:57:45am
Mefferd agreed that the show isn’t being very fair and balanced: “Boy, but when you have so many scientists who simply do not accept Darwinian evolution it seems to me that that might be something to throw in there, you know, the old, ‘some scientists say this, others disagree and think this,’ but that’s not even allowed.”

Allowed. Allowed.

THEY’RE MAKING THEIR OWN TELEVISION SHOW, WITH THEIR OWN MONEY, AND BROADCASTING IT ON THEIR OWN CHANNEL, NOT SENDING YOU TO THE GOD DAMNED GULAG.

10 Kragar  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 12:00:05pm

re: #9 Testy Toad T

Allowed. Allowed.

THEY’RE MAKING THEIR OWN TELEVISION SHOW, WITH THEIR OWN MONEY, AND BROADCASTING IT ON THEIR OWN CHANNEL, NOT SENDING YOU TO THE GOD DAMNED GULAG.

Clearly a violation of their right to free speech.
/

11 Bulworth  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 12:00:43pm

re: #9 Testy Toad T

And the creationists have no, none, zero, zippo, zilch, nada, platforms for promulgating their views. No cable TV networks, no talk radio networks, no religious broadcast ministries, just completely not. allowed.

//

12 Pie-onist Overlord  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 12:02:45pm

Bill Nye why did you have to go and poke this animal with a sharp stick?

13 Kragar  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 12:04:09pm

re: #11 Bulworth

And the creationists have no, none, zero, zippo, zilch, nada, platforms for promulgating their views. No cable TV networks, no talk radio networks, no religious broadcast ministries, just completely not. allowed.

//

The Religious Right is well known for providing a platform for their opponents on such diverse issues such as birth control, homosexuality, school prayer, and other controversial issues. They are very welcoming of different opinions.

14 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 12:04:52pm

These creationists should simply be ignored in this case. They’re just whining.

15 sauceruney  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 12:06:36pm

The church won’t give me equal time to talk about atheism or satanism. What’s up with that? Where’s the fairness and balance?

16 Political Atheist  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 12:06:45pm

re: #8 prairiefire

Happy Friday, Lizards!

And the same to you.

17 Skip Intro  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 12:06:47pm

re: #11 Bulworth

And the creationists have no, none, zero, zippo, zilch, nada, platforms for promulgating their views. No cable TV networks, no talk radio networks, no religious broadcast ministries, just completely not. allowed.

//

I’ve noticed on my Roku box that there are hundreds of fundamentalist religious channels to choose from.

Science channels? Zero.

18 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 12:07:12pm

re: #12 Pie-onist Overlord

Bill Nye why did you have to go and poke this animal with a sharp stick?

Because publicly putting the lie to creationism is important. Yes it means creationists scream and get butthurt for hours on end, but it is needed to combat creationist propaganda.

19 Iwouldprefernotto  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 12:07:48pm

Just lost my bracket…

20 Kragar  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 12:08:46pm

re: #19 Iwouldprefernotto

Just lost my bracket…

Check under the coach?

21 dog philosopher  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 12:09:10pm

re: #4 Skip Intro

So what is the theory of creationism in it’s entirety?

God did it.

Evidence?

God did it.

How do you know.

The bible says so.

Fascinating stuff, that.

Meanwhile, I wonder if Carl Sagan had to deal with these lunatics back in the 1970s. I don’t believe he did, because back then people weren’t so openly stupid.

i want them to tell me where god came from

22 Jack Burton  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 12:10:47pm

re: #14 Dark_Falcon

These creationists should simply be ignored in this case. They’re just whining.

They all should be ignored in every case. Saint Thomas Aquinas was telling people to ignore these idiots back in the 13th century.

And these are the people who are constantly whining that Muslims want to drag us back to the dark ages.

23 Iwouldprefernotto  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 12:11:23pm

re: #20 Kragar

Check under the coach?

Don’t make fun I really needed that billion dollars.

24 KiTA  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 12:12:51pm

Fortunately, Neil Degrasse Tyson is on the record as not believing in giving these kinds of idiots the time of day.

UNFORTUNATELY, Fox is aaaaaalllll about the false equivalency, and we should expect Ken Ham to either be allowed on the show soon, or to be given his own show shortly.

In other news, Drudge is a lying asshole:

25 Kragar  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 12:14:09pm
26 Kragar  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 12:14:56pm
27 Skip Intro  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 12:16:26pm

re: #21 dog philosopher

i want them to tell me where god came from

I’d settle for them explaining where the light came from on the first day if God didn’t create the stars until the fourth.

28 Kragar  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 12:18:28pm

re: #27 Skip Intro

I’d settle for them explaining where the light came from on the first day if God didn’t create the stars until the fourth.

In the beginning there was nothing.

Then God said “LET THERE BE LIGHT!”

There was still nothing, but now you could see it.

29 Jack Burton  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 12:22:10pm

re: #27 Skip Intro

I’d settle for them explaining where the light came from on the first day if God didn’t create the stars until the fourth.

It came from bronze age shepherds complete ignorance of science and logic.

When taken literally, The Ainulindalë is more plausible. Where’s the equal time for Tolkien’s Creation Myth?!

30 The War TARDIS  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 12:22:40pm

re: #22 Jack Burton

Though, there is an issue in the Muslim World.

Welcome to the theological weirdness that is occasionalism. It has been holding the Muslim world back in Science for about 800 years.

Some apologists for occasionalism say Al-Ghazali was a scientist. That is bullshit.

Muslim scientists are men like Avicenna, Averroes, and Ibn Rushd, among others.

Al-Ghazali was a dumbass.

31 Varek Raith  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 12:25:26pm

re: #28 Kragar

In the beginning there was nothing.

Then God said “LET THERE BE LIGHT!”

There was still nothing, but now you could see it.

32 Romantic Heretic  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 12:28:44pm

re: #22 Jack Burton

They all should be ignored in every case. Saint Thomas Aquinas was telling people to ignore these idiots back in the 13th century.

And these are the people who are constantly whining that Muslims want to drag us back to the dark ages.

If we get dragged back to the times these whackos want we will be living int the Dark Ages, and the Muslim world will be a wealthy centre of enlightenment and technology.

Just like it was a millennia ago.

33 Kragar  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 12:29:27pm

re: #29 Jack Burton

It came from bronze age shepherds complete ignorance of science and logic.

When taken literally, The Ainulindalë is more plausible. Where’s the equal time for Tolkien’s Creation Myth?!

Hell, Lovecraft had a more plausible creation theory than creationists.

34 Eventual Carrion  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 12:32:48pm

Why don’t they just create their own show? Would be cheap and short. No need to lay out facts and findings, proofs and evidence, experiments and linking effects from causes. Just spout “God did it!”, go to commercial and say good bye.

35 Backwoods_Sleuth  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 12:33:50pm

yes, this just happened, and it was a verified account.

36 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 12:34:54pm
37 Charles Johnson  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 12:34:55pm

Man, I got some real nutcases tweeting at me this morning after Gus’s post. Abby Martin has very freakish fans.

38 Dr Lizardo  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 12:37:14pm

re: #37 Charles Johnson

Man, I got some real nutcases tweeting at me this morning after Gus’s post. Abby Martin has very freakish fans.

Based on her “art”, I can well imagine that Ms. Martin’s fans are a little on the…….eccentric…..side.

39 Kragar  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 12:37:32pm

Must be taking lessons from Greenwald

40 KiTA  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 12:39:22pm

re: #33 Kragar

Hell, Lovecraft had a more plausible creation theory than creationists.

It’s not a theory, it’s a Myth. Creationists do not have a creation theory.

Cults and other forms of worship have Mythologies, not Theories. Don’t let them claim the same intellectual high ground as well, the rest of the world.

41 Political Atheist  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 12:42:53pm

Sorry to go a little OT early

I wrote the other day of an ill friend & mentor in Panyu China. Some of you kindly had suggestions to help and i thank you all. Sadly all efforts to get him re hospitalized or back to the US had failed. Marc passed away yesterday at the age of 63, survived by 3 fine kids and his wife.

it’s a sad day.

42 TedStriker  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 12:42:58pm

re: #34 Eventual Carrion

Why don’t they just create their own show? Would be cheap and short. No need to lay out facts and findings, proofs and evidence, experiments and linking effects from causes. Just spout “God did it!”, go to commercial and say good bye.

The God-botherers already have a multitude of shows on a multitude of media outlets in which to proffer Creationism: every televangelist show that’s on TV or radio right now, networks such as Trinity Broadcasting, etc.

43 Dr Lizardo  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 12:43:52pm

re: #41 Political Atheist

Sorry to go a little OT early

I wrote the other day of an ill friend & mentor in Panyu China. Some of you kindly had suggestions to help and i thank you ball. Sadly all efforts to get him re hospitalized or back to the US had failed. Marc passed away yesterday at the age of 63, survived by 3 fine kids and his wife.

it’s a sad day.

Sorry to hear that. My condolences.

44 Stanley Sea  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 12:44:12pm

re: #41 Political Atheist

Sorry to go a little OT early

I wrote the other day of an ill friend & mentor in Panyu China. Some of you kindly had suggestions to help and i thank you all. Sadly all efforts to get him re hospitalized or back to the US had failed. Marc passed away yesterday at the age of 63, survived by 3 fine kids and his wife.

it’s a sad day.

Sorry.

45 TedStriker  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 12:44:48pm

re: #41 Political Atheist

Sorry to go a little OT early

I wrote the other day of an ill friend & mentor in Panyu China. Some of you kindly had suggestions to help and i thank you ball. Sadly all efforts to get him re hospitalized or back to the US had failed. Marc passed away yesterday at the age of 63, survived by 3 fine kids and his wife.

it’s a sad day.

Damn, that sucks.

My condolences.

46 dog philosopher  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 12:47:51pm

re: #28 Kragar

In the beginning there was nothing.

Then God said “LET THERE BE LIGHT!”

There was still nothing, but now you could see it.

// darkness on the face of the waters. fix it:
Light* light = new Light();

// should we pop up a dialog??
assert(light->isGood());

47 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 12:50:01pm
48 RealityBasedSteve  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 12:50:46pm

re: #46 dog philosopher

// darkness on the face of the waters. fix it:
Light* light = new Light();

// should we pop up a dialog??
assert(light->isGood());

I know for a fact that God doesn’t use Lambda expressions. They are an unholy abomination upon the face of the code.

RBS

49 Jack Burton  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 12:51:29pm

re: #37 Charles Johnson

Man, I got some real nutcases tweeting at me this morning after Gus’s post. Abby Martin has very freakish fans.

It’s my experience that many 9/11 Troofers should be in a “home”. Their trooferism is just a symptom of a wider psychosis.

50 CuriousLurker  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 12:51:49pm

re: #30 The War TARDIS

Al-Ghazali was a dumbass.

Please list the numerous works of Al-Ghazali which you’ve read from cover to cover, providing a brief summary of what each was about.

If you can’t do that, then I’d assert that Al-Ghazali isn’t the dumbass.

51 Varek Raith  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 12:53:33pm

re: #47 NJDhockeyfan

[Embedded content]

That’s what you get for stealin’ mah bucket!

52 EPR-radar  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 12:55:28pm

Dear creationists, I’ll entertain the foolish notion that creationists should get airtime on Cosmos as soon as you accept the foolish notion that you need to provide airtime to evangelical atheists for preaching to your congregations.

53 dog philosopher  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 12:55:30pm

re: #48 RealityBasedSteve

I know for a fact that God doesn’t use Lambda expressions. They are an unholy abomination upon the face of the code.

RBS

i use lambada functions cuz they’re easier to dance to

54 Kragar  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 12:57:41pm
55 b.d.  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 12:57:45pm

Should the Japanese whale fishermen get equal time on Whale Wars?

56 palmerskiss  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 12:57:58pm

oh conservatives, what ever happened to the free market?

oh conservatives, not every theory, idea, state of being, has an oppositely equal argument.

oh conservatives, did your dogma eat your science homework?

57 Targetpractice  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 12:58:02pm
Mefferd agreed that the show isn’t being very fair and balanced: “Boy, but when you have so many scientists who simply do not accept Darwinian evolution it seems to me that that might be something to throw in there, you know, the old, ‘some scientists say this, others disagree and think this,’ but that’s not even allowed.”

Science is not about what you “say,” it’s about what you can prove. Even Tyson admitted on Monday that science is unafraid, when confronted with a question that nobody know the answer to, to say “We don’t know.” When you can find a Creationist who will admit aloud that there is no proof God exists, then we’ll talk about “balance.” Until then, all you’re demanding is a science show help you peddle your religious nonsense.

58 Kragar  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 1:01:02pm

re: #57 Targetpractice

Science is not about what you “say,” it’s about what you can prove. Even Tyson admitted on Monday that science is unafraid, when confronted with a question that nobody know the answer to, to say “We don’t know.” When you can find a Creationist who will admit aloud that there is no proof God exists, then we’ll talk about “balance.” Until then, all you’re demanding is a science show help you peddle your religious nonsense.

How can you say there is no proof God exists? He wrote the Bible!
///

59 palmerskiss  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 1:02:19pm

re: #58 Kragar

How can you say there is no proof God exists? He wrote the Bible!
///

bah, does he want a pulitzer?

60 wrenchwench  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 1:02:40pm

re: #55 b.d.

Should the Japanese whale fishermen get equal time on Whale Wars?

61 Eventual Carrion  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 1:03:08pm

re: #56 palmerskiss

oh conservatives, what ever happened to the free market?

oh conservatives, not every theory, idea, state of being, has an oppositely equal argument.

oh conservatives, did your dogma eat your science homework?

Hey, your Karma ran over my Dogma!

62 palmerskiss  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 1:04:05pm

re: #58 Kragar

How can you say there is no proof God exists? He wrote the Bible!
///

if we give god a nobel prize for literature, will he agree to leave the gays and george zimmerman alone finally?

63 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 1:04:48pm

re: #41 Political Atheist

Kyrie, eleison. May he, those he loved & those who loved him be comforted in a place of light and peace.

64 Jack Burton  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 1:09:34pm

re: #58 Kragar

How can you say there is no proof God exists? He wrote the Bible!
///

In English too.

/

65 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 1:10:01pm
66 Mattand  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 1:10:02pm

Creationists do have a venue for responding to Cosmos. It the fucking propaganda channel posing as a news outfit that the network showing Cosmos runs.

67 EPR-radar  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 1:11:30pm

re: #64 Jack Burton

In English too.

/

Artificially archaic Elizabethan English is the native tongue for God and all the angels.

68 wrenchwench  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 1:13:04pm
69 Varek Raith  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 1:13:35pm

Freaking Verizon.
Sigh.

70 Kragar  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 1:15:27pm
71 palmerskiss  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 1:15:59pm

re: #68 wrenchwench

He looks mean! like he wants to eat your dinner! or you! :D

72 EPR-radar  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 1:17:00pm

re: #57 Targetpractice

Science is not about what you “say,” it’s about what you can prove. Even Tyson admitted on Monday that science is unafraid, when confronted with a question that nobody know the answer to, to say “We don’t know.” When you can find a Creationist who will admit aloud that there is no proof God exists, then we’ll talk about “balance.” Until then, all you’re demanding is a science show help you peddle your religious nonsense.

I’d be a little cautious with this because the language used gives creationists more wiggle room than they deserve.

Science does not deal with “proof”. Instead, its basis is the rational evaluation of empirical evidence.

E.g., there is no 100.000% proof that evolution by natural selection is correct, and there never will be. However, there is a mountain of evidence supporting that idea, and no credible evidence at all for any creationist/ID “alternative”.

73 wrenchwench  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 1:17:20pm

re: #71 palmerskiss

He looks mean! like he wants to eat your dinner! or you! :D

I thought at first it was on a blanket, then I saw it was a hand!

74 RealityBasedSteve  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 1:17:58pm

Where my dad has moved to in Florida (Port Charlotte area) there are a ton of geckos. He had one living in his sun room for a while, and my dad, being my dad, would make sure that if there were any flies in the condo, he’d sort of chase them into the sunroom for the gecko. This is the same man that had wild ducks eating bread out of his hands, because for 20+ years he would feed any ducks that came by his house. Apparently word got out on the ‘welfare duck’ newsgroup.

RBS

75 b.d.  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 1:18:42pm

Does The Christian Broadcasting Network allow equal time to alternative viewpoints?

76 Jack Burton  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 1:20:16pm

re: #67 EPR-radar

Artificially archaic Elizabethan English is the native tongue for God and all the angels.

It would be hilarious if Heaven exists and if the wingnut creationists get there they are greeted by God/Angels speaking like this:

Youtube Video

And they have to spend a good portion of eternity learning a new language that was spoken by brown foreign people.

77 William Barnett-Lewis  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 1:20:54pm

re: #70 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Can’t be any worse than the day someone asked why I was singing “The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald” while scoping out a sail boat website… ;)

78 Political Atheist  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 1:23:12pm

re: #68 wrenchwench

He’ll smile when he registers and gets a nic & avatar.

79 dog philosopher  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 1:24:32pm

re: #76 Jack Burton

It would be hilarious if Heaven exists and if the wingnut creationists get there they are greeted by God/Angels speaking like this:

[Embedded content]

And they have to spend a good portion of eternity learning a new language that was spoken by brown foreign people.

bah - he speaks sumerian with an uruartian accent

80 Skip Intro  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 1:24:45pm

re: #58 Kragar

How can you say there is no proof God exists? He wrote the Bible!
///

81 Jack Burton  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 1:26:24pm

re: #79 dog philosopher

bah - he speaks sumerian with an uruartian accent

I didn’t think we really knew how Sumerian sounded at all, I was surprised to find that.

I tried looking for samples of proto-afro-asiatic but couldn’t find any.

82 The War TARDIS  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 1:26:56pm

re: #50 CuriousLurker

Your right, I am still learning. But I would like to ask you. How can science progress when things like this are still accepted?

In his famous example, when fire and cotton are placed in contact, the cotton is burned not because of the heat of the fire, but through God’s direct intervention, a claim which he defended using logic.

There’s a reason the Islamic Golden Age ended. People like this guy are it. Whenever I hear something like the above? I simply won’t listen because they are so off the plot, it is bizarre. How exactly do you accept science and occasionalism at the same time. You can’t.

Which dovetails into a more personal issue, me trying find someone. I do pray about it. But at the same time, humans, by their nature, can act indepently. So, since Allah doesn’t directly control anyone, how does that help? I have not heard a good answer to that yet. Combined with there are nearly no ways to meet Muslims of another Gender in my age group (20 to 25), the fact that the way the systems work for converts seems to disadvantage them, and the fact that half or slightly more of the messages I have gotten on the matrimonial site have been scammers, I am having my monthly frustration burst over this issue.

And until I see an organized solution to this, or something actually happens, I will continue to have my monthly event. A Muslimah won’t fall into my lap, but with all these people saying “Calm down, it will happen” it feels like that I am not getting help, or that something will happen spontaneously. Which it won’t.

83 Skip Intro  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 1:28:03pm

re: #75 b.d.

Does The Christian Broadcasting Network allow equal time to alternative viewpoints?

About as much as the ABC Family Channel does.

84 Jack Burton  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 1:29:56pm

re: #79 dog philosopher

Also some of the comments (that I’m hesitant to pay attention to because it’s Youtube and most people who comment there should be punched in the face on general principle) are claiming that it’s Akkadian and not Sumerian.

85 palmerskiss  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 1:30:11pm

re: #73 wrenchwench

I thought at first it was on a blanket, then I saw it was a hand!

lol i thought exactly the same thing

86 Kragar  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 1:30:24pm
87 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 1:31:43pm

re: #82 The War TARDIS

Are you getting therapy?

88 Kragar  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 1:32:39pm

re: #87 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

You going to be free at all this weekend to talk?

89 dog philosopher  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 1:33:08pm

re: #81 Jack Burton

I didn’t think we really knew how Sumerian sounded at all, I was surprised to find that.

I tried looking for samples of proto-afro-asiatic but couldn’t find any.

sumerian is well documented - however, exactly what a genuine sumerian pronunciation of, say, an ‘n’ or an ‘a’ would be like is unknown, much less what the speech melodies (“intonation contours”) or stress patterns might have been like. as a matter of fact, there still is considerable debate over exactly how to pronounce classical latin

the existence of proto-afro-asiatic is theoretical, and afaik has not been reconstructed as proto-indo-european has

90 CuriousLurker  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 1:33:23pm

re: #50 CuriousLurker

re: #30 The War TARDIS

Al-Ghazali was a dumbass.

Please list the numerous works of Al-Ghazali which you’ve read from cover to cover, providing a brief summary of what each was about.

If you can’t do that, then I’d assert that Al-Ghazali isn’t the dumbass.

Since you’re not responding, let me tell you this: Al-Ghazali was one of the foremost Islamic scholars of his day. Granted, his “day” was the 11th-12th century, but even by those standards I doubt your level of knowledge concerning the matters he wrote about come anywhere near his.

Your arrogance and ignorance in calling him a dumbass makes you sound exactly like the freaking Wahhabis & Salafis who diss on mainstream scholars & Sufis. Oh, and you know what else? He had a strong hand in making Sufism acceptable in mainstream, orthodox Islam—were it not for him, today there might not be any viable contraposition to the hardcore extremists.

I’ll tell you what, go read all 40 books that comprise The Revival of the Religious Sciences, then get back to me when you’re done. It’ll be several thousand pages, so I’ll give you till the end of the year, what with school and all.

Oh, and that link, above? It provides some English translations in PDF format, but you’ll have to figure out which ones might be the most accurate—that is, unless you’re fluent in both classical & modern literary Arabic, in which case you should have no trouble locating a complete copy of original Iḥyāʾ ʿulūm al-dīn and reading everything exactly as it was written.

BTW, this will also assume that you have a firm understanding, historically speaking, of the people & issues that were at the forefront of both Western & Islamic scholarship during Al-Ghazali’s time. You have that, right? //

91 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 1:35:50pm

re: #88 Kragar

You going to be free at all this weekend to talk?

Probably. I think my wife is up to something. I don’t mean that in a bad way.

92 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 1:38:36pm

re: #90 CuriousLurker

Without having read much of him, my understanding is that the singling him out as some sort of extreme metaphysical evil who retarded all science is dumb; he said some things that were not helpful to science but there are oodles of Christians who said similar stuff and we managed to have an Enlightenment just fine.

The reasons for the lack of an Islamic enlightenment seem like a long, complex story, and I’d blame the Ottoman empire a lot more than any individual Islamic scholar.

93 Decatur Deb  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 1:40:11pm

Laying to rest the question “Should we call it Obamacare?”

barackobama.com

94 wrenchwench  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 1:40:52pm

re: #93 Decatur Deb

Laying to rest the question “Should we call it Obamacare?”

barackobama.com

I love it when he trolls the rwnjs.

95 The War TARDIS  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 1:41:20pm

re: #90 CuriousLurker

I did respond.

I also stated that I do need to learn more, but at the same time, occasionalism is fatal to progress of the sciences. The Muslim world has fallen behind for a reason.

re: #87 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

Are you getting therapy?

This is something out of my control. I can’t relax until I hear a concrete rebuttal to my worries from other muslims. Heck, one of the influential brothers at the Mosque outright admitted that the current way things go makes it incredibly hard to meet someone, and heavily disadvantages a Converts.

96 Jack Burton  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 1:42:14pm

re: #94 wrenchwench

I love it when he trolls the rwnjs.

I think it would be better to troll them by calling it what it is. HeritageCare. Or RightWingThinkTankCare.

97 wrenchwench  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 1:43:31pm

re: #96 Jack Burton

I think it would be better to troll them by calling it what it is. HeritageCare. Or RightWingThinkTankCare.

Did you see the image?

98 Kragar  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 1:43:59pm

re: #91 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

Probably. I think my wife is up to something. I don’t mean that in a bad way.

Ok, I want to get back into the swing of things if you’re feeling up to it. The emails have been few and far between. I’d like to fix that.

99 Decatur Deb  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 1:44:06pm

re: #96 Jack Burton

I think it would be better to troll them by calling it what it is. HeritageCare. Or RightWingThinkTankCare.

In five years the TPGOP will call it ‘Romneycare”.

100 Decatur Deb  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 1:44:33pm

re: #97 wrenchwench

Did you see the image?

[Embedded image]

Need to learn how to do that.

101 The War TARDIS  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 1:44:38pm

re: #92 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

We had one from the 930 to the 1200s.

Then things went pear shaped. The crusades and the Mongols played a part, but the occasionalism promoted by Al-Ghazali, among others, killed any chances of a recovery, and started a long slow decline that has led to now.

102 Targetpractice  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 1:45:19pm

re: #86 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Thing is, these days, any time I get my hopes up about a movie, I get Brad Pitt’s World War Z and then just end up feeling depressed.

103 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 1:45:51pm

re: #95 The War TARDIS

This is something out of my control. I can’t relax until I hear a concrete rebuttal to my worries from other muslims. Heck, one of the influential brothers at the Mosque outright admitted that the current way things go makes it incredibly hard to meet someone, and heavily disadvantages a Converts.

I asked:

Are you getting therapy?

Your response was inappropriate for that question.

104 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 1:46:39pm

Who the fuck is Janet Mefferd? Is this why she even has a radio show? Someone named Charles Mefford, VP Operations, Salem Radio?

srnonline.com

Honestly, some people will listen to anything. Her promos:

ftp://files.srnradio.com

She has free speech and the ability to tell lies on the public airways. How can people like her even live with themselves? Must be the money after all, not their vaunted religion.

Grifters gotta grift.

105 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 1:46:41pm

re: #101 The War TARDIS

We had one from the 930 to the 1200s.

Then things went pear shaped. The crusades and the Mongols played a part, but the occasionalism promoted by Al-Ghazali, among others, killed any chances of a recovery, and started a long slow decline that has led to now.

I don’t actually think you really have a good grasp, or even a moderate grasp, on Islamic history or the history of science.

106 Kragar  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 1:47:40pm

re: #102 Targetpractice

Thing is, these days, any time I get my hopes up about a movie, I get Brad Pitt’s World War Z and then just end up feeling depressed.

I never heard of that movie.
///

107 EPR-radar  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 1:47:40pm

re: #92 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

Without having read much of him, my understanding is that the singling him out as some sort of extreme metaphysical evil who retarded all science is dumb; he said some things that were not helpful to science but there are oodles of Christians who said similar stuff and we managed to have an Enlightenment just fine.

The reasons for the lack of an Islamic enlightenment seem like a long, complex story, and I’d blame the Ottoman empire a lot more than any individual Islamic scholar.

The “great man” theories of history that attribute large social changes exclusively to the actions of specific individuals are usually too simplistic to be take seriously, especially in relation to philosophy where using military force to create a decisive victory isn’t an option.

My pet theory about the lack of an Islamic enlightenment is that early Islam didn’t have decades of persecution by civil authorities like the early Christians did under the Romans. IMO that persecution helped embed the idea in Christianity that the church and the state need not be identical.

108 Targetpractice  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 1:51:04pm

re: #106 Kragar

I never heard of that movie.
///

Then you’re going to like it even less when you find out that they want to turn it into a trilogy. Three movies of Brad Pitt getting everybody around himself killed. One of the few times I can think of a film where the “hero” is a guy who is a walking doom magnet.

109 Varek Raith  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 1:51:31pm

re: #91 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

Probably. I think my wife is up to something. I don’t mean that in a bad way.

Still, take this +1 armor.

110 The War TARDIS  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 1:51:37pm

re: #103 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

I asked:

Are you getting therapy?

Your response was inappropriate for that question.

No, because it won’t help here.

And in regards to the history thing, there was the Islamic Golden Age. That what I am talking about.

111 Testy Toad T  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 1:52:21pm

Honestly, a lot of you are doing Flying Spaghetti Monster’s work in refuting yet another borderline-rant and talking down the usual borderline-ranter, but it makes me a little uncomfortable to sit around here and watch it play out.

I’ll catch you all another afternoon.

112 Decatur Deb  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 1:52:23pm

re: #108 Targetpractice

Then you’re going to like it even less when you find out that they want to turn it into a trilogy. Three movies of Brad Pitt getting everybody around himself killed. One of the few times I can think of a film where the “hero” is a guy who is a walking doom magnet.

“Achilles” much?

113 Kragar  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 1:54:36pm

Preparing to hold its second annual Fourth of July festival at the Maude Cobb Convention Center, event organizers contacted several artists in hopes of booking them for the date. One of those artists was rocker Ted Nugent with whom the event planners had reached a verbal agreement

However, Nugent has become increasingly more controversial during his stint campaigning for Texas gubernatorial candidate Greg Abbott, causing the organizers to reconsider the performer’s appearance.

Faced with a guaranteed performance fee of $32,000, the City of Longview instead agreed to pay Nugent $16,000 out of the Maude Cobb annual budget to not appear.

114 Varek Raith  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 1:54:57pm

Don’t you just love it when a developer releases a new WTF overpowered boss?
I do!
/

115 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 1:54:59pm

re: #107 EPR-radar

Well, I dunno. Great individuals are of huge importance in scientific discovery and achivement. The conditions for them to be able to do their work is also hugely important. I’m really uncertain how the idea of separation of church and state (and remember, Christians eventually became the state, and remained the state, for a fucking long time, so you’re saying that something that happened hundreds and hundreds of years ago somehow had some permutative effect, which is tenuous as hell) is vital to the enlightenment anyway.

We’re not going to trash out an accurate history of science and the enlightenment in this common thread. Simple explanations are not possible. In so far as an explanation for the Islamic world’s stagnation can be given, the fact that the Ottoman empire sat around stagnating for a fucking long time seems more important than this one Islamic scholar saying some stuff.

116 Decatur Deb  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 1:55:37pm

re: #113 Kragar

[Embedded content]

I’d stay away for half that.

117 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 1:55:44pm

re: #110 The War TARDIS

No, because it won’t help here.

You should get therapy. It will help everywhere. And you should stop spilling out your personal problems like someone here is going to be able to help you with them, because we can’t.

118 EPR-radar  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 1:55:56pm

re: #110 The War TARDIS

No, because it won’t help here.

And in regards to the history thing, there was the Islamic Golden Age. That what I am talking about.

Some of the push back you are getting is against the idea that the Islamic Golden Age was the same kind of thing as the Enlightenment.

One strong piece of evidence against that proposition is that the world powers today are not basically Islamic, as they no doubt would be had the golden age of Islam really had an Enlightenment + the scientific revolution that would have gone with it.

119 Targetpractice  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 1:55:58pm

re: #114 Varek Raith

Don’t you just love it when a developer releases a new WTF overpowered boss?
I do!
/

What are you playing? WoW?

120 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 1:56:00pm

re: #92 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

Without having read much of him, my understanding is that the singling him out as some sort of extreme metaphysical evil who retarded all science is dumb; he said some things that were not helpful to science but there are oodles of Christians who said similar stuff and we managed to have an Enlightenment just fine.

The reasons for the lack of an Islamic enlightenment seem like a long, complex story, and I’d blame the Ottoman empire a lot more than any individual Islamic scholar.

For what do you blame the Ottomans?

121 Varek Raith  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 1:56:28pm

re: #119 Targetpractice

What are you playing? WoW?

kancolle.wikia.com

122 Targetpractice  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 1:57:11pm

re: #121 Varek Raith

kancolle.wikia.com

Huh, didn’t think any other lizards other than me knew about that.

123 Hercules Grytpype-Thynneghazi  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 1:57:18pm

re: #21 dog philosopher

i want them to tell me where god came from

A: He didn’t come from anywhere, He exists necessarily.

Q: But if it’s possible for a being so immensely powerful that it can design and create a whole universe from nothing to exist uncaused, why isn’t it possible that the universe itself could exist uncaused?

A: Because.

124 Decatur Deb  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 1:58:36pm

re: #120 Dark_Falcon

For what do you blame the Ottomans?

Terribly overpriced, for one thing.

Image: lounge-chair-ottoman-inspired-by-eames-01_14.jpg

125 Varek Raith  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 1:58:36pm

re: #122 Targetpractice

Huh, didn’t think any other lizards other than me knew about that.

kancolle.wikia.com

It’s like they combined all the bosses in to one hellish being. Those stats!
Yeesh.

126 Lidane  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 1:58:56pm

re: #14 Dark_Falcon

These creationists should simply be ignored in this case. They’re just whining.

They should be ignored in every case. They’re not scientists. They’re trying to present 2000 year old religious texts as valid science and making people dumber in the process.

127 EPR-radar  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 1:59:36pm

re: #125 Varek Raith

kancolle.wikia.com

It’s like they combined all the bosses in to one hellish being. Those stats!
Yeesh.

Speaking of insane game stats, I have recently discovered the Disgaea franchise.

128 Kragar  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 1:59:48pm

re: #114 Varek Raith

Don’t you just love it when a developer releases a new WTF overpowered boss?
I do!
/

The level 50 Warrior in Borderlands 2?

129 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 2:00:33pm

re: #126 Lidane

They should be ignored in every case. They’re not scientists. They’re trying to present 2000 year old religious texts as valid science and making people dumber in the process.

If they’ve got power, then attention must be paid to them, even if its only about neutralizing their influence.

130 Targetpractice  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 2:01:22pm

re: #125 Varek Raith

kancolle.wikia.com

It’s like they combined all the bosses in to one hellish being. Those stats!
Yeesh.

Yowza.

131 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 2:01:50pm

re: #120 Dark_Falcon

For what do you blame the Ottomans?

Being boring for hundreds of years. The clergy had a ton of power and attempts to modernize education got met with “No ‘cuz god” a lot. Everything was entrenched, it was difficult to change any system. There were no strong leaders with great interest in science, whereas there were in the West. Power was more concentrated, which meant more stagnant. Finally, they didn’t rely on naval power as much as the West did, and a hell of lot of the original advances which go the Enlightenment going were solving problems in naval warfare and travel. Ottoman naval science was almost all about mediterranean fleets, which is very different from ocean-crossing fleets.

132 Lidane  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 2:04:42pm

re: #129 Dark_Falcon

If they’ve got power, then attention must be paid to them, even if its only about neutralizing their influence.

And their influence is neutralized by telling them to sit down and STFU about getting equal air time on Cosmos. The show’s already done, FFS. There’s no “equal air time” to give. Even if there was, the whole point of Cosmos is to teach people real science, not quackery.

133 dog philosopher  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 2:04:50pm

re: #124 Decatur Deb

Terribly overpriced, for one thing.

Image: lounge-chair-ottoman-inspired-by-eames-01_14.jpg

i tried one of those but my feet kept on asking for dry martinis

134 palmerskiss  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 2:05:58pm

re: #90 CuriousLurker

i missed the Al-Ghazali debate but if you like his work - have you read any Iqbal? a few centuries removed, but Iqbal, Gibran, and Al-Ghazali are top of my list for Islamic mysticism…

135 NJDhockeyfan  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 2:07:17pm
136 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 2:12:08pm

re: #131 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

Being boring for hundreds of years. The clergy had a ton of power and attempts to modernize education got met with “No ‘cuz god” a lot. Everything was entrenched, it was difficult to change any system. There were no strong leaders with great interest in science, whereas there were in the West. Power was more concentrated, which meant more stagnant. Finally, they didn’t rely on naval power as much as the West did, and a hell of lot of the original advances which go the Enlightenment going were solving problems in naval warfare and travel. Ottoman naval science was almost all about mediterranean fleets, which is very different from ocean-crossing fleets.

Very good points, Obdi, and I agree with them. The only thing I’d point out is that the Ottoman’s had little ‘felt need’ to cross oceans. They couldn’t reach the Atlantic because trying to pass through the Straits of Gibraltar would have put them right next to Spain’s ports and far from their own. The only way they could have gone was towards the Indian Ocean and their was nothing there that the Turks needed a fleet to acquire or protect.

137 Lidane  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 2:12:16pm

*headdesk*

So one of my “libertarian” (i.e., wingnut who doesn’t want to admit he’s a wingnut) friends linked to this image on Facebook (warning: racist derp) and was then surprised when me and one other person pointed out its racist message. He said he didn’t see it. He just thought it was a statement about Obama’s skill as POTUS.

Really? You don’t see how that image was turned into a racist statement? At least he had the sense to pull the photo when it was pointed out to him. Still, that’s fucked up. WTF.

138 Lidane  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 2:12:45pm

re: #135 NJDhockeyfan

So Mt. Gox checked the couch cushions? Fun times.

139 freetoken  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 2:12:45pm

Fundamentalists are becoming more eager to adapt various tactics:

Professors ‘Bully’ Student Group on Facebook for Creationism Event

When Conservative Students for a Better Tomorrow asked professors at Furman University in Greenville, S.C., to participate in a Creationism debate modeled after the Ken Ham-Bill Nye event last month, the professors not only refused, but allegedly mocked the idea on social media. A student reported that a professor even threatened the group via email for reporting what the students saw as “bullying.”

Warning his colleague Bryan Bibb against appearing in the debate, Religion professor Roger Sneed commented on Facebook: “They’re seeking you to give legitimacy to a completely [expletive laden rant redacted] load of foolishness.” English professor Margaret Oakes advised him similarly, and said, “Don’t dignify the stupidity by acknowledging it.”

Lauren Cooley, a CSBT advisor, told The Christian Post on Thursday that as soon as the professors heard the group’s plans to invite Answers in Genesis lecturer Terry Mortenson, they attacked his ideas and the students’ desire to invite him to campus for a debate.

“The comments on Facebook were definitely bullying,” Cooley said. “It’s really inappropriate and unprofessional. … We want to expose the fact that we’re being ridiculed.”

Cooley told CP that roughly five professors were involved in the alleged bullying on social media, but she only named three - Bibb, Sneed and Oakes.

“When we exposed the Facebook posts, one of the professors involved threatened a student by email,” Cooley said. She alleges that the professor accused the student of violating their privacy and threatened to report the student to campus authorities.

[…]

140 The War TARDIS  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 2:13:29pm

re: #117 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

And that would help with finding someone how? There are virtually no matchmakers for Muslims in the US. The site I use isn’t helping. And a major member of the Mosque outright admitted that me not having familial links to the community puts me at a disadvantage.

Does therapy help an of these situations? No. It does not help me in finding someone, and thus doesn’t help the problem. That is how my logic operates.

141 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 2:13:59pm

re: #137 Lidane

*headdesk*

So one of my “libertarian” (i.e., wingnut who doesn’t want to admit he’s a wingnut) friends linked to this image on Facebook (warning: racist derp) and was then surprised when me and one other person pointed out its racist message. He said he didn’t see it. He just thought it was a statement about Obama’s skill as POTUS.

Really? You don’t see how that image was turned into a racist statement? At least he had the sense to pull the photo when it was pointed out to him. Still, that’s fucked up. WTF.

How could anyone NOT think that was racist? Comparing a black man to a chimpanzee has always been understood to be racist.

142 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 2:14:19pm

As difficult as it is, I do really like this Brave New World:

Or they may say “Sex is physical, gender is socially constructed.”

This simply isn’t true.

Sex is no more an immutable binary than is gender. There are intersex people who are born with non-binary genitalia, as I have already mentioned. There are people with hormonal anomalies. In fact, hormone levels vary wildly within the categories of cis male and cis female. Chromosomes, too, vary. If you thought “XX” and “XY” were the only two possible combinations, you have some serious googling to do. In addition to variations like XXY, XXYY, or X, sometimes cis people find out that they are genetically the “opposite” of what they though they were- that is, a ‘typical’ cis man can be XX, a ‘normal’ cis woman can be XY.

Also Paged

143 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 2:14:50pm

re: #136 Dark_Falcon

Very good points, Obdi, and I agree with them. The only thing I’d point out is that the Ottoman’s had little ‘felt need’ to cross oceans. They couldn’t reach the Atlantic because trying to pass through the Straits of Gibraltar would have put them right next to Spain’s ports and far from their own. The only way they could have gone was towards the Indian Ocean and their was nothing there that the Turks needed a fleet to acquire or protect.

No, the Ottoman empire fought a lot of naval battles in the Indian ocean, against the Dutch, and they did actually feel a need to go there. They just weren’t very good at it and didn’t adapt well, kept trying to use Mediterranean tactics and ships there.

en.wikipedia.org

It was a relatively short period, but they did indeed go there.

144 Sionainn  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 2:15:20pm

re: #137 Lidane

*headdesk*

So one of my “libertarian” (i.e., wingnut who doesn’t want to admit he’s a wingnut) friends linked to this image on Facebook (warning: racist derp) and was then surprised when me and one other person pointed out its racist message. He said he didn’t see it. He just thought it was a statement about Obama’s skill as POTUS.

Really? You don’t see how that image was turned into a racist statement? At least he had the sense to pull the photo when it was pointed out to him. Still, that’s fucked up. WTF.

You clearly don’t have a sense of humor./////

145 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 2:15:28pm

re: #140 The War TARDIS

And that would help with finding someone how?

By helping you become a better, calmer person who could make better decisions and have better self-awareness.

Does therapy help an of these situations? No. It does not help me in finding someone, and thus doesn’t help the problem. That is how my logic operates.

That ain’t logic.

146 Justanotherhuman  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 2:16:31pm

People rebelled against the original “deal” which would have effectively cost Duke Power very little.

NC pulls deal with Duke on coal ash pollution

bigstory.ap.org

RALEIGH, N.C. (AP) — North Carolina regulators say they have asked a judge to withdraw a proposed settlement that would have allowed Duke Energy to resolve environmental violations by paying a $99,000 fine with no requirement that the $50 billion company clean up its pollution.

“The state Department of Environment and Natural Resources said in a statement Friday that it would scuttle the proposed consent order to settle violations for groundwater contamination leeching from coal ash dumps near Charlotte and Asheville.

(snip)

“The settlement was initially tabled last month, the day after an Associated Press story highlighting what environmentalists criticized as a “sweetheart deal” to Duke.”

147 Sionainn  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 2:16:36pm

re: #140 The War TARDIS

And that would help with finding someone how? There are virtually no matchmakers for Muslims in the US. The site I use isn’t helping. And a major member of the Mosque outright admitted that me not having familial links to the community puts me at a disadvantage.

Does therapy help an of these situations? No. It does not help me in finding someone, and thus doesn’t help the problem. That is how my logic operates.

Obsessing about something you have no control over is why therapy would be good for you.

148 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 2:16:45pm

re: #139 freetoken

Fundamentalists are becoming more eager to adapt various tactics:

Professors ‘Bully’ Student Group on Facebook for Creationism Event

‘Bullying’ in this case means “They said things about my religious and scientific views that I didn’t like! They told other people I was wrong!! HELP, HELP, I’M BEING REPRESSED!!1”

149 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 2:18:24pm

re: #143 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

No, the Ottoman empire fought a lot of naval battles in the Indian ocean, against the Dutch, and they did actually feel a need to go there. They just weren’t very good at it and didn’t adapt well, kept trying to use Mediterranean tactics and ships there.

en.wikipedia.org

It was a relatively short period, but they did indeed go there.

Thank you, I’d forgotten about that. The Ottomans were indeed unable to adapt, and they kept trying to use galleys long after that craft had stopped being useful against ocean going vessels.

150 Sionainn  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 2:18:36pm

re: #142 FemNaziBitch

As difficult as it is, I do really like this Brave New World:

Also Paged

Pointed that out about the chromosomes yesterday to someone arguing about it, and, shockingly (lol), didn’t receive a reply after that.

151 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 2:19:02pm

Also, finding someone is actually the easy part. The hard part is then actually making a connection, being a good person for them, being a positive influence in their life, figuring out how to enmesh your two lives. It’s tricky as hell and you can’t do it when you’re not in a good place yourself.

152 Hercules Grytpype-Thynneghazi  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 2:19:58pm

re: #76 Jack Burton

It would be hilarious if Heaven exists and if the wingnut creationists get there they are greeted by God/Angels speaking like this:

[Embedded content]

And they have to spend a good portion of eternity learning a new language that was spoken by brown foreign people.

Just for the record, the label on that video is in error. The language is not Sumerian but Babylonian. Babylonian was a dialect of Akkadian and was a Semitic language, related to Arabic and Hebrew. Sumerian was, as far as we can tell, unrelated to any other known language.

The audio comes from a project of the University of London and more recordings can be found here.

Why should it take anyone “a good portion of eternity” to learn a language? Akkadian isn’t particularly difficult, as languages go.

153 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 2:21:13pm

re: #143 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

No, the Ottoman empire fought a lot of naval battles in the Indian ocean, against the Dutch, and they did actually feel a need to go there. They just weren’t very good at it and didn’t adapt well, kept trying to use Mediterranean tactics and ships there.

en.wikipedia.org

It was a relatively short period, but they did indeed go there.

According that article the Ottomans were mostly face Portugal, not the Netherlands.

154 CuriousLurker  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 2:21:14pm

Sorry for the slow response, but I have to pop in & out due to work.

re: #92 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

Without having read much of him, my understanding is that the singling him out as some sort of extreme metaphysical evil who retarded all science is dumb; he said some things that were not helpful to science but there are oodles of Christians who said similar stuff and we managed to have an Enlightenment just fine.

The reasons for the lack of an Islamic enlightenment seem like a long, complex story, and I’d blame the Ottoman empire a lot more than any individual Islamic scholar.

Exactly. I like Neil deGrasse Tyson and I know he had some harsh things to say about Ghazali. To be honest, he kind of pissed me off with that—I wish people would stick to their own areas of expertise. As smart and engaging as he is, I don’t think this is one of Mr. Tyson’s.

This attack on Al-Ghazali didn’t just start either, it’s been going on at least since I registered at LGF and it comes from the usual suspects. It’s seems to have been deleted now, but Mandy once had a page titled Roots of violent Islamism? that blamed Al-Ghazali for… well, basically for every problem Islam has today, Last January Killgore brought it up again and I responded with no small amount of annoyance.

I myself haven’t tackled the 580-pages of Al-Ghazali’s The Incoherence of Philosophers—the work which is primarily blamed for stabbing the philosophers, and thereby any enlightenment, to death—in part because I don’t have a strong enough background in philosophy or (Islamic) theology & jurisprudence to feel that I’d be capable of correctly understanding & evaluating what he was trying to convey.

That said, I’ll just reference this article, written by an Arab journalist in 2012. It’s very interesting and worth reading in full (added emphasis mine):

How the decline of Muslim scientific thought still haunts

After writing his book, The Incoherence of Philosophers, Algazel as he was known in medieval Europe, is said to have “stabbed falsafa in such a manner that it could not rise again in the Muslim world”. Thanks to his unparalleled mastery of falsafa and Islamic law, he injected repugnance among Muslims for science that ultimately led to its decline and, in the process, the decline of Islamic civilisation.

Or at least, this is what academics and Orientalists have argued for over a century. But I believe this assessment is wrong. Getting it right is important, as the role of religion in the Middle East is again being pushed to the fore.

Academics are correct in pinpointing the exact period in which Muslims began turning away from scientific innovation - the 11th century - but they have identified the wrong person. Abu Ali Al Hassan Al Tusi (1018-1092), better known as Nizam Al Mulk, the grand vizier of the Seljuq dynasty, was in fact the driving force.

Nizam Al Mulk had created a system of education known as “Nizamiyah” that focused on religious studies at the expense of independent inquiry. Not only did Nizamiyah colleges focus on religion but they also adopted a narrow Sunni interpretation of Islamic jurisprudence as the source of curricula: the Shafii school.

For the first time in Islamic history, religious studies became institutionalised - sciences and Islamic law were intertwined - and religious studies were seen as a more lucrative career path. […]

thenational.ae

155 Hercules Grytpype-Thynneghazi  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 2:22:36pm

re: #81 Jack Burton

I didn’t think we really knew how Sumerian sounded at all, I was surprised to find that.

I tried looking for samples of proto-afro-asiatic but couldn’t find any.

As I posted in response to #76, it’s not Sumerian, it’s Babylonian (Akkadian). Sumerian wasn’t Afro-Asiatic but Babylonian (being Semitic) was. I don’t think Afro-Asiatic is nearly as well reconstructed as Indo-European is.

156 Decatur Deb  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 2:22:54pm

re: #143 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

No, the Ottoman empire fought a lot of naval battles in the Indian ocean, against the Dutch, and they did actually feel a need to go there. They just weren’t very good at it and didn’t adapt well, kept trying to use Mediterranean tactics and ships there.

en.wikipedia.org

It was a relatively short period, but they did indeed go there.

The western invention that doomed the Muslim maritime hope was the mass-production of ships. The concept rose at the Arsenale in Venice, allowing it to peak at the production of one armed merchant galley per day. That’s much the same way US shipbuilders like Kaiser won the Battle of the Atlantic.

arsenalofvenice.weebly.com

157 Political Atheist  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 2:23:00pm
158 dog philosopher  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 2:23:19pm

re: #152 Hercules Grytpype-Thynneghazi

Just for the record, the label on that video is in error. The language is not Sumerian but Babylonian. Babylonian was a dialect of Akkadian and was a Semitic language, related to Arabic and Hebrew. Sumerian was, as far as we can tell, unrelated to any other known language.

The audio comes from a project of the University of London and more recordings can be found here.

Why should it take anyone “a good portion of eternity” to learn a language? Akkadian isn’t particularly difficult, as languages go.

huh

beat me - i would never know if it was actually sumerian or akkadian, or old low franconian for that matter

do you know of any recorded readings in sumerian? I’d like to get some of it in my ear…

159 bratwurst  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 2:23:27pm

re: #145 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

By helping you become a better, calmer person who could make better decisions and have better self-awareness.

re: #147 Sionainn

Obsessing about something you have no control over is why therapy would be good for you.

For reasons I will never understand, some people are only comfortable asking for help from people who can’t provide it to them.

160 The War TARDIS  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 2:24:44pm

re: #145 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

But it doesn’t actually help the issues mentioned before. I want to see an actual factual solution to those problems.

161 Decatur Deb  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 2:25:04pm

re: #158 dog philosopher

huh

beat me - i would never know if it was actually sumerian or akkadian, or old low franconian for that matter

do you know of any recorded readings in sumerian? I’d like to get some of it in my ear…

Youtube Video

162 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 2:26:14pm

re: #153 Dark_Falcon

According that article the Ottomans were mostly face Portugal, not the Netherlands.

Sorry, you’re right. Later on they had some desultory fights with the Dutch in the Indian Ocean, but they were mainly up against portugal.

163 Lidane  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 2:27:21pm

re: #141 Dark_Falcon

How could anyone NOT think that was racist? Comparing a black man to a chimpanzee has always been understood to be racist.

Yeah, but he’s the same guy who shares Allen West’s posts all the damn time. And stuff from Heritage and The Blaze. Like I said— he’s a wingnut who doesn’t want to admit he’s a wingnut. He calls himself libertarian instead. If I’d said that he would’ve gotten defensive and countered with all his Allen West links as proof he’s not racist.

I consider it a win that he took that post down after being told that it was pretty obviously a racist image.

164 Lidane  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 2:28:45pm

re: #157 Political Atheist

Pssst. Some good news

Judge Strikes Down Michigan Ban on Gay Marriage as Unconstitutional

Clearly this is Dearbornistan’s fault. If they weren’t busy trying to rebuild the caliphate Michigan would still have a gay marriage ban.

//////////////////////

165 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 2:28:53pm

re: #160 The War TARDIS

But it doesn’t actually help the issues mentioned before. I want to see an actual factual solution to those problems.

First of all, again, it’s utterly stupid to just spill out the “I can’t get a girl” problem on this forum and expect a solution to be provided for you. It’s not going to happen. It’s completely irrational, illogical behavior on your part.

Second, if you meet someone, you then have to make a connection with them. Meeting is the least challenging part. Seeking that before you’re at a good place with your own self isn’t going to wind up anywhere good.

Third, if you’re the ball of frustrated rage you present yourself as constantly, nobody is going to want to introduce you to their friend/cousin/sister/coworker etc. I know a lot of nifty young Muslim girls here in NYC, I wouldn’t introduce you to any of them because you say scary, scary shit about bombing civilians and condemning entire ethnicities to suffering in collective punishment.

166 dog philosopher  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 2:29:38pm

re: #161 Decatur Deb

[Embedded content]

“sumerian times, when the livin’ was easy

ishtar was jumpin’, and there were plenty of goat sacrifices…”

167 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 2:29:50pm

re: #159 bratwurst

For reasons I will never understand, some people are only comfortable asking for help from people who can’t provide it to them.

because they really don’t want to change.

168 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 2:30:53pm

re: #163 Lidane

Yeah, but he’s the same guy who shares Allen West’s posts all the damn time. And stuff from Heritage and The Blaze. Like I said— he’s a wingnut who doesn’t want to admit he’s a wingnut. He calls himself libertarian instead. If I’d said that he would’ve gotten defensive and countered with all his Allen West links as proof he’s not racist.

I consider it a win that he took that post down after being told that it was pretty obviously a racist image.

Fair enough, although if someone actually showed that image to Allan West himself, I’m sure Mr. West would find it to be racist and would have no trouble telling people why it was racist.

169 palmerskiss  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 2:31:02pm

re: #142 FemNaziBitch

As difficult as it is, I do really like this Brave New World:

Also Paged

people are hardwired to see binary nature in many things beyond just gender, although gender is probably its greatest casualty.

brains in animals tend to run binary scenarios when reacting to ‘fight or flight’ and it means using sense and reasoning to over power ancient survival heredity.

170 Hercules Grytpype-Thynneghazi  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 2:31:23pm

re: #89 dog philosopher

sumerian is well documented - however, exactly what a genuine sumerian pronunciation of, say, an ‘n’ or an ‘a’ would be like is unknown, much less what the speech melodies (“intonation contours”) or stress patterns might have been like. as a matter of fact, there still is considerable debate over exactly how to pronounce classical latin

the existence of proto-afro-asiatic is theoretical, and afaik has not been reconstructed as proto-indo-european has

One of the problems with Sumerian pronunciation - other than the basic fact that it’s a dead language - is that we only know it through the lens of Akkadian. That is, the pronunciation of the cuneiform characters used to write Sumerian are only known at all because they’re presumed to be similar to how the same characters were pronounced when they were applied to writing Akkadian. (Akkadian was deciphered first and we have some independent evidence for its pronunciation because we know of many related languages, such as Aramaic, Hebrew, Arabic, etc.) So, for example, there’s longstanding debate over whether Sumerian had an /o/ vowel. This is because Akkadian had only /a/, /i/ and /u/. It’s possible that some of the characters used to write syllables with /u/ vowels in Akkadian actually represented /o/ vowels in Sumerian, but it’s very hard to be sure and scholars haven’t come to any consensus (AFAIK).

171 palmerskiss  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 2:31:40pm

re: #157 Political Atheist

Pssst. Some good news

Judge Strikes Down Michigan Ban on Gay Marriage as Unconstitutional

great news!

172 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 2:31:57pm

re: #156 Decatur Deb

The western invention that doomed the Muslim maritime hope was the mass-production of ships. The concept rose at the Arsenale in Venice, allowing it to peak at the production of one armed merchant galley per day. That’s much the same way US shipbuilders like Kaiser won the Battle of the Atlantic.

arsenalofvenice.weebly.com

That’s what won the Med, but I think development of long-range sailing ships was more important overall, because it made maritime trade going around the horn faster and more reliable than overland travel through the areas the Ottomans controlled, especially since the Ottomans took a big chunk in taxation all along the way.

173 CuriousLurker  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 2:33:00pm

re: #82 The War TARDIS

Your right, I am still learning. But I would like to ask you. How can science progress when things like this are still accepted?

In his famous example, when fire and cotton are placed in contact, the cotton is burned not because of the heat of the fire, but through God’s direct intervention, a claim which he defended using logic.

There’s a reason the Islamic Golden Age ended. People like this guy are it. Whenever I hear something like the above? I simply won’t listen because they are so off the plot, it is bizarre. How exactly do you accept science and occasionalism at the same time. You can’t.

Yeah, okay. I’ll bother having a discussion about this with you when you have some actual context and not just a single Wiki quotation devoid of citation or context with which to condemn a single man for all of Islam’s lack of scientific progress. The arrogance of youthful ignoance never ceases to amaze me.

Which dovetails into a more personal issue, me trying find someone. I do pray about it. But at the same time, humans, by their nature, can act indepently. So, since Allah doesn’t directly control anyone, how does that help? I have not heard a good answer to that yet. Combined with there are nearly no ways to meet Muslims of another Gender in my age group (20 to 25), the fact that the way the systems work for converts seems to disadvantage them, and the fact that half or slightly more of the messages I have gotten on the matrimonial site have been scammers, I am having my monthly frustration burst over this issue.

And until I see an organized solution to this, or something actually happens, I will continue to have my monthly event. A Muslimah won’t fall into my lap, but with all these people saying “Calm down, it will happen” it feels like that I am not getting help, or that something will happen spontaneously. Which it won’t.

Yeah, I’ve heard all this before and am not really interested in discussing it further with you. If you’re smart enough to figure out Al-Ghazali was wrong, then you should be smart enough to solve your own romantic & existential problems. Oh sorry, was that harsh? I don’t really care—just go away, you get on my last nerve.

174 wrenchwench  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 2:33:19pm

re: #100 Decatur Deb

Need to learn how to do that.

My method: right click on image. Left click on ‘save image as…’. I save it to my desktop, with a name I’ll recognize. Then I shrink the window partway, so I can see my desktop and the posting box. I drag the image to the posting box. A dialog box pops up, I click the ‘insert code’ button.

I’da had that 60 comments ago if it weren’t for all the cyclists descending upon me.

And I’ll have to add that (or an improvement upon it) to the User’s Guide.

175 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 2:37:31pm

re: #174 wrenchwench

My method: right click on image. Left click on ‘save image as…’. I save it to my desktop, with a name I’ll recognize. Then I shrink the window partway, so I can see my desktop and the posting box. I drag the image to the posting box. A dialog box pops up, I click the ‘insert code’ button.

I’da had that 60 comments ago if it weren’t for all the cyclists descending upon me.

And I’ll have to add that (or an improvement upon it) to the User’s Guide.

I save every image I download from the internet with the prefix “web”.

Easy to do a search by date if I need to find something.

example: webdoggy.jpg

I have similar short codes for other categories. Anything that is my work, that I’ve signed or watermarked starts with a w then the year

example: w2013mar3doggy.png.

176 Hercules Grytpype-Thynneghazi  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 2:40:31pm

re: #158 dog philosopher

huh

beat me - i would never know if it was actually sumerian or akkadian, or old low franconian for that matter

do you know of any recorded readings in sumerian? I’d like to get some of it in my ear…

I don’t know of any Sumerian recordings. Its pronunciation is much less well understood than that of Akkadian/Babylonian, and it may just be that no scholar is willing to attach his or her name to such a speculative endeavor. Things we don’t know about Sumerian (that we do know about Akkadian) include how many vowels there were, whether there was a phonemic contrast between long and short vowels, and whether there was vowel harmony not consistently rendered in the spelling, And that’s just the vowels.

177 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 2:40:36pm
178 Sionainn  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 2:41:01pm

re: #160 The War TARDIS

But it doesn’t actually help the issues mentioned before. I want to see an actual factual solution to those problems.

You have to get yourself right before any woman (without problems herself) is going to have a healthy relationship with you. I understand wanting to find someone, but when you are desperate (and I’m wondering if that’s what some of the families in the mosque are seeing), it’s a huge turn-off.

179 CuriousLurker  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 2:41:50pm

re: #134 palmerskiss

i missed the Al-Ghazali debate but if you like his work - have you read any Iqbal? a few centuries removed, but Iqbal, Gibran, and Al-Ghazali are top of my list for Islamic mysticism…

No, I haven’t read any Iqbal, but I have read some of Al-Ghazali’s shorter works and I’ve also read Gibran, though he was Christian, not Muslim (which doesn’t really matter at that level anyway ;)).

180 FemNaziBitch  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 2:42:13pm
181 Sionainn  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 2:42:23pm

re: #163 Lidane

Yeah, but he’s the same guy who shares Allen West’s posts all the damn time. And stuff from Heritage and The Blaze. Like I said— he’s a wingnut who doesn’t want to admit he’s a wingnut. He calls himself libertarian instead. If I’d said that he would’ve gotten defensive and countered with all his Allen West links as proof he’s not racist.

I consider it a win that he took that post down after being told that it was pretty obviously a racist image.

I’ve noticed that on some other boards with libertarians. They are really only wingnuts, but don’t want that label. I guess they think “libertarian” makes them sound normal.

182 Decatur Deb  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 2:43:42pm

re: #176 Hercules Grytpype-Thynneghazi

I don’t know of any Sumerian recordings. Its pronunciation is much less well understood than that of Akkadian/Babylonian, and it may just be that no scholar is willing to attach his or her name to such a speculative endeavor. Things we don’t know about Sumerian (that we do know about Akkadian) include how many vowels there were, whether there was a phonemic contrast between long and short vowels, and whether there was vowel harmony not consistently rendered in the spelling, And that’s just the vowels.

OTOH, there is a recording of King Tut’s trumpets:

Youtube Video

183 TDG2112  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 2:45:47pm

re: #4 Skip Intro

So what is the theory of creationism in it’s entirety?

God did it.

Meanwhile, I wonder if Carl Sagan had to deal with these lunatics back in the 1970s. I don’t believe he did, because back then people weren’t so openly stupid.

Yep. Sagan went out and debated them all the time. Tyson has stated he has no interest in doing that. His point being that it is not the scientists banging down the church door, but the other way around.

Anyways: a snippet of Sagan and creationist. Youtube is filled with them:
Youtube Video

184 CuriousLurker  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 2:45:59pm

jeffreyw: I realize you’re a lurk-only newbie, but just so you know, passing out down-dings without providing a reason is considered bad form.

185 The War TARDIS  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 2:52:40pm

re: #173 CuriousLurker

I’m sorry for going off half cocked. The thing about Occasionalism has been gnawing at my mind for about a week, and the other issue is one that pops up monthly.

I’ve tried to make it go away, but it won’t. So I just accept it will keep coming back until something changes.

186 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 2:54:17pm

re: #185 The War TARDIS

Get some therapy.

187 Backwoods_Sleuth  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 2:56:38pm

re: #168 Dark_Falcon

Fair enough, although if someone actually showed that image to Allan West himself, I’m sure Mr. West would find it to be racist and would have no trouble telling people why it was racist.

especially if the captioning was changed to “Rare photo of Ronald Reagan babysitting Allen West”.

188 CuriousLurker  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 3:00:49pm

re: #185 The War TARDIS

I’m sorry for going off half cocked. The thing about Occasionalism has been gnawing at my mind for about a week, and the other issue is one that pops up monthly.

I’ve tried to make it go away, but it won’t. So I just accept it will keep coming back until something changes.

Okay, but please stop DM-ing me on Twitter. If you want to actually read Al-Ghazali’s work for yourself, then try starting of with this translation of The Incoherence of the Philosophers as it provides both the English and the original Arabic. Read the reviews to learn about the translation as well as Al-Ghazali’s books that preceded and followed this one and are related to it in terms of understanding where he was coming from and who he was talking to/about.

189 CuriousLurker  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 3:05:47pm

Okay, now that I’m in a thoroughly pissy mood, I think it’s time for me to take a break. // BBL

190 The War TARDIS  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 3:08:04pm

re: #188 CuriousLurker

Okay, but please stop DM-ing me on Twitter. If you want to actually read Al-Ghazali’s work for yourself, then try starting of with this translation of The Incoherence of the Philosophers as it provides both the English and the original Arabic. Read the reviews to learn about the translation as well as Al-Ghazali’s book that preceded and followed this one and are related to it in terms of understanding where he was coming form and who he was talking to/about.

Is there a Kindle copy somewhere. I don’t have a lot of excess money or storage space now.

191 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 3:14:40pm

re: #190 The War TARDIS

Is there a Kindle copy somewhere. I don’t have a lot of excess money or storage space now.

Attempt to solve the problem yourself.

And get therapy.

192 CuriousLurker  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 3:21:34pm

re: #190 The War TARDIS

Is there a Kindle copy somewhere. I don’t have a lot of excess money or storage space now.

What Obdi said.

193 palmerskiss  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 3:24:07pm

re: #179 CuriousLurker

No, I haven’t read any Iqbal, but I have read some of Al-Ghazali’s shorter works and I’ve also read Gibran, though he was Christian, not Muslim (which doesn’t really matter at that level anyway ;)).

no you’re right gibran is def. Christian, but Middle Eastern mysticism did not really work,

194 Jay C  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 7:08:30pm

So the creationists are “demanding” airtime for their crackpottery views in the name of “balance”?? Sounds like they want to bring back the “Fairness Doctrine” - works for me!!!!

195 Swift2991  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 7:42:59pm

re: #21 dog philosopher

They were around, but a major political party wasn’t full of its adherents.

196 prairiefire  Fri, Mar 21, 2014 10:46:39pm

re: #193 palmerskiss

no you’re right gibran is def. Christian, but Middle Eastern mysticism did not really work,

Aren’t you an interesting bird!

197 Idle Drifter  Sat, Mar 22, 2014 8:37:04pm

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