One of the Most Disgusting Anti-Choice Articles You’ll Ever Read

Denying the bloody legacy of illegal abortion
• Views: 17,812

The right wing media are staging another one of their absurd freak-out sessions, this time pretending to be gravely offended by the use of wire coat hangers as a symbol of illegal abortion.

And rarely have I read such a truly despicable example of anti-choice propaganda as Kevin D. Williamson’s disgusting attempt to mansplain and deny this bloody history in the National Review: The Symbol of a Lie.

Warning: this is some really sick thinking.

But first a word of praise for the DC Abortion Fund: The group at least has the intellectual integrity to put the word “abortion” right there in the middle of its name — no NARAL-style “choice” euphemisms for this merry band of butchers. Valerie Solanas had her Society for Cutting Up Men, and nobody would be better pleased than I if Cecile Richards et al. embraced their true identity: The Society for Cutting Up Mankind.

Alec Torres noted this exercise in horrifyingly bad taste on the Corner, and the subsequent response on talk radio and elsewhere inspired the DC Abortion Fund to publish an apologia pro carnificibus titled “The Coat Hanger as a Symbol, and Why Abortion Access Matters,” which reads in part: “The coat hanger is a symbol of the reproductive justice movement because lack of access to abortion causes women to go to desperate lengths to terminate a pregnancy, similar to those undertaken in the pre-Roe vs. Wade era. At that time, consuming Lysol and household poisons was not uncommon to instigate abortion. Nor was inserting knitting needles, Coke bottles, and — yes — wire coat hangers into their cervices.”

That is untrue. It has long been known to be untrue. The wire hanger is indeed a powerful symbol — the symbol of a lie engineered with malice aforethought.

Where’s Williamson’s evidence that women never used coat hangers to perform abortions? Well, he has none. That’s right, he offers not a single piece of evidence for this categorical denial.

And refuting this dishonest, horrible piece of work is incredibly simple. All we have to do is read the history and testimonials from those who were there.

For example, this 2008 essay in the New York Times by retired gynecologist Waldo L. Fielding: Doctor Recalls Abortion Complications Before Roe v. Wade.

I am a retired gynecologist, in my mid-80s. My early formal training in my specialty was spent in New York City, from 1948 to 1953, in two of the city’s large municipal hospitals.

There I saw and treated almost every complication of illegal abortion that one could conjure, done either by the patient herself or by an abortionist — often unknowing, unskilled and probably uncaring. Yet the patient never told us who did the work, or where and under what conditions it was performed. She was in dire need of our help to complete the process or, as frequently was the case, to correct what damage might have been done.

The patient also did not explain why she had attempted the abortion, and we did not ask. This was a decision she made for herself, and the reasons were hers alone. Yet this much was clear: The woman had put herself at total risk, and literally did not know whether she would live or die.

This, too, was clear: Her desperate need to terminate a pregnancy was the driving force behind the selection of any method available.

The familiar symbol of illegal abortion is the infamous “coat hanger” — which may be the symbol, but is in no way a myth. In my years in New York, several women arrived with a hanger still in place. Whoever put it in — perhaps the patient herself — found it trapped in the cervix and could not remove it.

We did not have ultrasound, CT scans or any of the now accepted radiology techniques. The woman was placed under anesthesia, and as we removed the metal piece we held our breath, because we could not tell whether the hanger had gone through the uterus into the abdominal cavity. Fortunately, in the cases I saw, it had not.

In a long tradition of shameful right wing propaganda, the National Review has outdone themselves with this one. What the hell is wrong with these people?

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374 comments
1 wrenchwench  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 10:54:40am
What the hell is wrong with these people?

Patriarchy, in a word.

They will lose eventually, but they might win today.

2 Pie-onist Overlord  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 10:55:00am

Mitt Romney’s cousin died of septicemia from an illegal abortion.

Also, a Lizard posted a death certificate here of her great-aunt who died of abortion complication.

3 Pie-onist Overlord  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 10:55:48am
4 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 10:56:20am

The other spin being put on this is “government interfering with a contract between employer and employee” along with the pseudoreligious trappings.

5 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 10:59:31am

I have to wonder if these asshats are trying to make are for some reason not counting septic abortion as abortion?

NEJM -Septic Abortion

The Back Alley Revisited: Sepsis after Attempted Self-Induced Abortion

Knitting needles, coat hangers and the like often did not produce an immediate termination of pregnancy. They accidentally perforated the uterus and other organs causing sepsis —which in turn produced a spontaneous miscarriage.

The Whackos seem to be sticklers for detail and exact language.

6 lawhawk  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:00:06am

re: #3 Pie-onist Overlord

7 Kragar  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:00:27am

If Hobby Lobby wins, look forward to employers coming out of the woodwork to make their workers comply with their religion.

“Vaccinations? Sorry, no.”

“We don’t believe in modern medicine. Pray harder.”

8 Backwoods_Sleuth  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:00:34am

Massive fire burning in Montrose area

HOUSTON (KTRK) — A massive fire is burning at a building under construction in the Montrose area, filling the sky with thick black smoke that can be seen for miles. The fire broke out around 12:30pm at a building on West Dallas at Marconi.

9 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:00:42am
10 Pie-onist Overlord  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:00:56am

WTFITS

11 wrenchwench  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:01:06am

Imma leave this here for D_F.

12 jaunte  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:02:01am

re: #8 Backwoods_Sleuth

I was just out back looking at the smoke. Big apartment complex under construction is totally in flames.

13 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:02:47am

IF we were all good Christians and

IF we all practiced full abstinence until marriage

and ONLY had sex within marriage for procreational purposes

THEN THERE WOULD BE NO ABORTIONS AND GOD WOULD SMILE ON AMERICA AGAIN AND MAKE US PROSPER AS WE DID BEFORE ROE v WADE!!!

14 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:03:40am

If you have the time, $4.99 to watch this documentary is well worth it.

It is the story behind the iconic photo
NSFW!

15 Charles Johnson  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:03:57am

re: #11 wrenchwench

Imma leave this here for D_F.

Kevin D. Williamson is a disgusting pig. This article is vile.

16 Backwoods_Sleuth  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:04:01am

re: #12 jaunte

I was just out back looking at the smoke. Big apartment complex under construction is totally in flames.

some video:

instagram.com

17 Aqua Obama  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:04:31am
18 Kragar  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:04:37am

re: #13 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

IF we were all good Christians and

IF we all practiced full abstinence until marriage

and ONLY had sex within marriage for procreational purposes

THEN THERE WOULD BE NO ABORTIONS AND GOD WOULD SMILE ON AMERICA AGAIN AND MAKE US PROSPER AS WE DID BEFORE ROE v WADE!!!

If you weren’t all dirty sinners, there would be no need for such unpleasantness.
///

19 Backwoods_Sleuth  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:06:37am

Driving on I-75 in Ohio is about to get serious.

20 jaunte  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:08:27am

Kevin D. Williamson:

“The wire hanger is a way to change the subject from the reality of abortion in these United States, which is that it exists mainly as a tool for enabling sexual convenience at the cost of a human life.”

Is a twisted asshole.

21 Shiplord Kirel  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:08:35am

re: #17 Aqua Obama

Not the Onion:

Russian thugs beat up St Patrick’s flashmob after mistaking it for gay activists

Manly men, practicin’ for bear rasslin’! Hurr! Hurr!

22 Justanotherhuman  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:09:06am

re: #1 wrenchwench

Patriarchy, in a word.

They will lose eventually, but they might win today.

[Embedded content]

If Kennedy thinks the case is about abortion, he needs to resign.

And BTW, Charles, thanks for this post. I knew women back in the day who went to pretty drastic measures just because they missed a period, teens also. Being punched in the belly repeatedly, falling down stairs, drinking quinine—were also methods women employed. Before b/c pills became widely used, the “rhythm method”, rubbers, and diaphragms (I had a “diaphragm baby”) were the only methods of b/c.

These people are so fucking dishonest, I can’t tell you how disgusted it makes me feel.

But no girl or woman should remain pregnant if she doesn’t want to be pregnant. Let’s get comprehensive sex education into all schools and offer b/c to those teens who are sexually active and want it.

23 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:09:54am

re: #20 jaunte

Kevin D. Williamson:

Is a twisted asshole.

WHAT IS WRONG WITH SEXUAL CONVENIENCE?????

24 Kragar  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:10:17am

re: #23 FemNaziBitch

WHAT IS WRONG WITH SEXUAL CONVENIENCE?????

Sinner.
///

25 wrenchwench  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:10:32am

Deaths from unsafe abortions are not a thing of the past, just more rare than they used to be in the US. Policies about foreign aid from the US are making women in the rest of the world less safe.

26 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:11:15am

re: #24 Kragar

Sinner.
///

AND PROUD!

27 wrenchwench  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:12:12am

How many girls commit suicide rather than tell their parents they need an abortion? We will never know. The parents won’t allow that information to be public.

28 Pie-onist Overlord  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:12:21am

Speaking of obnoxious douchebag fuckwads:

29 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:12:32am

re: #25 wrenchwench

Deaths from unsafe abortions are not a thing of the past, just more rare than they used to be in the US. Policies about foreign aid from the US are making women in the rest of the world less safe.

[Embedded image]

After Baba alerted me to the NRO article, I made a post about this earlier if anyone is looking for some links in one place. Most of which I already posted in this thread.

30 jaunte  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:14:14am

Just down the block:
vine.co

31 Kragar  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:14:19am
32 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:14:45am

re: #27 wrenchwench

How many girls commit suicide rather than tell their parents they need an abortion? We will never know. The parents won’t allow that information to be public.

Not so much an issue in the current day since the taboo of unmarried pregnancy isn’t what it was —which is a good thing. Yet, without comprehensive sexual education, the outcome isn’t what we think it should be. Which leads us to …

The economic issue to deal with tho. It is better for society to pay for contraception than to suffer the effects of either unplanned pregnancies or illegal abortions.

33 A Mom Anon  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:16:21am

I am still not fucking believing we’re having this damned discussion in 2014.

I think I told this story before, but I saw first hand as a kid what happens in a botched back alley abortion as a kid. A lady I babysat for left two little kids behind because of this so called “non existent” thing. Fuck these guys (and their female counterparts) with a rusty damned coat hanger.

I’m sorry, but men need to STFU about this. Until it’s their body that’s involved, it’s not their bidness. And like they care about The Children anyway. If they did they’d spend their time making sure little kids weren’t going hungry, that every child in foster care had a safe and loving home, that no child had a substandard education, that ending child abuse and child pornography was a priority, need I go on? If they really cared about The Children they’d take their sanctimonious busy body slut shaming bullshit and channel it into making things better for the kids that are ALREADY HERE. Ask any of these “Right to Life” assholes what solutions they have to those problems and they have NO answers except drug testing poor people and cutting school funding. Or maybe some more tax cuts for rich people or letting guns in schools, churches and bars.

There’s a special place in Hell for these fucking assholes.

34 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:17:18am
35 RealityBasedSteve  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:17:36am

re: #30 jaunte

Just down the block:
vine.co

Wow… I’m guessing that’s going to set the move-in date back a couple of weeks.

I remember a case, I think it was in Seattle area many years ago. New house under construction, plumber soldering pipes on second floor, torch slips from hand, drops down between the studs where he can’t get to it, and sets the entire structure on fire. Not sure if it’s true, or urban legend, but I’d hate to be the construction guy that messed up and caused that fire.

RBS

36 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:17:40am
37 RealityBasedSteve  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:18:41am

re: #31 Kragar

[Embedded content]

How does Erick, Son of Erick make a woman moan?

Tells her he’s not paying.

RBS

38 BongCrodny  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:19:10am

re: #11 wrenchwench

Imma leave this here for D_F.

Seconded.

And I almost never downding anybody.

39 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:19:52am

re: #33 A Mom Anon

I am still not fucking believing we’re having this damned discussion in 2014.

And it reminds us that we should not take any of the progress we have made in women’s and minority rights for granted.

40 Bulworth  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:20:19am

Alec Torres noted this exercise in horrifyingly bad taste on the Corner

Obviously, a notable fair and balanced website and source of truly objective information truth. Confirmed.

41 jaunte  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:20:46am
42 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:20:54am
43 Bulworth  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:21:11am

re: #31 Kragar

If this doesn’t earn you a block…..

44 palmerskiss  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:21:29am

every year, 47,000 women die because they do not have access to legal, safe abortions

this video should dispel any desire for criminalizing abortions

Youtube Video

all you have to do if you want to know what happens to women in a country with illegal abortion is look at ireland’s history of the 20th century, the women who died, the women who suffered, the dangers, etc, all because they were not given the right to choose their own medical courses for their own bodies….which is defined by the united nations as a basic human right.

45 Pie-onist Overlord  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:21:41am
46 Justanotherhuman  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:21:52am

re: #39 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

And it reminds us that we should not take any of the progress we have made in women’s and minority rights for granted.

Ever. I can’t believe some of the rights we fought for back in the Second Wave are being re-fought today, not to mention how some of the younger women are buying into so much male bullshit.

47 jaunte  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:22:54am

re: #33 A Mom Anon

I’m sorry, but men need to STFU about this. Until it’s their body that’s involved, it’s not their bidness.

This is the truth.

48 Pie-onist Overlord  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:23:53am

re: #46 Justanotherhuman

Ever. I can’t believe some of the rights we fought for back in the Second Wave are being re-fought today, not to mention how some of the younger women are buying into so much male bullshit.

HURR HURR!!!! ARE WIMMENS IS TEH HAWT AND THERE WIMMENS IS TEH FUGLY!!!!! ANY QUESTIONS????!!!!!!!!

49 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:24:30am

50 sagehen  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:25:08am

re: #27 wrenchwench

How many girls commit suicide rather than tell their parents they need an abortion? We will never know. The parents won’t allow that information to be public.

Some doctor in Philadelphia did a study a couple years ago trying to track down abortion rates and abortion fatality rates pre- and post- Roe, using public records.

He found that birth rates were essentially unchanged. The number of death certificates listing abortion as a cause was minimal. But the mortality rate of women of reproductive age, from unspecified “infection” or “hemorrhage” — that’s where he found the abortion deaths. He estimates 30,000 women a year died from unsafe abortions in the 20 years pre-Roe. (not all illegal abortions were unsafe, of course… some fully competent doctors had a secret side practice after hours, under proper clinical conditions. Cider House Rules.)

51 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:25:11am

re: #48 Pie-onist Overlord

HURR HURR!!!! ARE WIMMENS IS TEH HAWT AND THERE WIMMENS IS TEH FUGLY!!!!! ANY QUESTIONS????!!!!!!!!

[Embedded content]

Women only count if they look like Barbie Dolls or otherwise make man parts tingle.

52 Bulworth  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:26:05am

re: #48 Pie-onist Overlord

Stay classy, wingnuts

53 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:26:09am

re: #50 sagehen

Some doctor in Philadelphia did a study a couple years ago trying to track down abortion rates and abortion fatality rates pre- and post- Roe, using public records.

He found that birth rates were essentially unchanged. The number of death certificates listing abortion as a cause was minimal. But the mortality rate of women of reproductive age, from unspecified “infection” or “hemorrhage” — that’s where he found the abortion deaths. He estimates 30,000 women a year died from unsafe abortions in the 20 years pre-Roe. (not all illegal abortions were unsafe, of course… some fully competent doctors had a secret side practice after hours, under proper clinical conditions. Cider House Rules.)

Yes, I saw a video that said birth rates didn’t change, but maternal death rates decreased. I wasn’t able to track down any hard evidence on that tho.

You have a link?

54 Dr Lizardo  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:26:25am

re: #7 Kragar

If Hobby Lobby wins, look forward to employers coming out of the woodwork to make their workers comply with their religion.

“Vaccinations? Sorry, no.”

“We don’t believe in modern medicine. Pray harder.”

As usual, the RWNJ’s aren’t thinking it through.

Let’s say I’m the President of XYZ, Inc.; I employ 400 people, and I pay them very well - well above average for the industry. I treat my employees well.

Now many of you here on LGF know that I’m a Muslim.

What’s do stop me from saying to my workers, “You want that paycheck? You want that raise? Mecca’s in that direction. Start praying.”

Mind you, I would never do anything like that, because quite bluntly, I’m not an asshole. It’s not my place to impose my particular beliefs or worldview on anyone.

But are the RW’ers really so stupid that they think matters will invariably go in their direction?

55 wrenchwench  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:26:30am
56 Pie-onist Overlord  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:26:50am

re: #51 FemNaziBitch

Women only count if they look like Barbie Dolls or otherwise make man parts tingle.

And even if a “LIBRUL WOMENS” is attractive, they will search and search until they find an unflattering photo.

57 Kragar  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:26:57am

re: #51 FemNaziBitch

[wingnut}Women only count if they look like Barbie Dolls or otherwise make man parts tingle. [/wingnut]

Apparently to wingnuts, batshit crazy is the new hawtness.

58 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:27:31am

re: #54 Dr Lizardo

As usual, the RWNJ’s aren’t thinking it through.

Let’s say I’m the President of XYZ, Inc.; I employ 400 people, and I pay them very well - well above average for the industry. I treat my employees well.

Now many of you here on LGF know that I’m a Muslim.

What’s do stop me from saying to my workers, “You want that paycheck? You want that raise? Mecca’s in that direction. Start praying.”

Mind you, I would never do anything like that, because quite bluntly, I’m not an asshole. It’s not my place to impose my particular beliefs or worldview on anyone.

But are the RW’ers really so stupid that they think matters will invariably go in their direction?

Employers might decide to become religious if it means they get to keep more of the profits.

59 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:28:29am

re: #58 FemNaziBitch

you just nailed it. companies exist to make profits, that is a big difference between them and flesh-and-blood persons

60 Kragar  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:28:54am

re: #58 FemNaziBitch

Employers might decide to become religious if it means they get to keep more of the profits.

Do they even get to keep those profits? I mean, aren’t the employees still paying the same amount for less coverage?

61 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:29:43am

62 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:30:23am

re: #54 Dr Lizardo

As usual, the RWNJ’s aren’t thinking it through.

Let’s say I’m the President of XYZ, Inc.; I employ 400 people, and I pay them very well - well above average for the industry. I treat my employees well.

Now many of you here on LGF know that I’m a Muslim.

What’s do stop me from saying to my workers, “You want that paycheck? You want that raise? Mecca’s in that direction. Start praying.”

Mind you, I would never do anything like that, because quite bluntly, I’m not an asshole. It’s not my place to impose my particular beliefs or worldview on anyone.

But are the RW’ers really so stupid that they think matters will invariably go in their direction?

Beyond that, is getting someone to pay lip service to your religion for the sake of their paycheck really something you want them to do? I presume the nuts think that is the first step towards true conversion, but roping a bunch of people into forced and insincere worship practices would strike me as actually being an insult to the religion and its institutions.

63 jaunte  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:30:51am

re: #61 FemNaziBitch

Erick Erickson sees no problem.

64 Lidane  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:31:01am

re: #33 A Mom Anon

I am still not fucking believing we’re having this damned discussion in 2014.

65 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:31:17am

re: #60 Kragar

Do they even get to keep those profits? I mean, aren’t the employees still paying the same amount for less coverage?

IIRC, employers subsidize the policy —no?

the less that has to be paid for, the less the overall cost.

I don’t want to think of the many ways this could go.

66 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:31:29am

Russia is in the process of stealing another ship from Ukraine…

67 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:32:01am

These people must hate Ibsen.

en.wikipedia.org

68 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:32:40am

69 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:33:21am
70 Dr Lizardo  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:34:06am

re: #62 Feline Fearless Leader

Beyond that, is getting someone to pay lip service to your religion for the sake of their paycheck really something you want them to do? I presume the nuts think that is the first step towards true conversion, but roping a bunch of people into forced and insincere worship practices would strike me as actually being an insult to the religion and its institutions.

Of course, coercion in any form simply leads to hypocrisy. That’s why it’s a bad idea to compel people to adopt any religion. People are free to choose whatever they want, after all, religion is subjective truth, not empirical truth. It makes no difference what people believe in, or even if they choose not to believe in anything at all.

71 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:34:07am

72 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:35:24am

73 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:36:24am

re: #68 FemNaziBitch

[Embedded image]

I think I did a particularly nice job on this one. I really like the border, If I
do say so myself.

:)

74 RealityBasedSteve  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:36:43am

re: #54 Dr Lizardo

As usual, the RWNJ’s aren’t thinking it through.

Let’s say I’m the President of XYZ, Inc.; I employ 400 people, and I pay them very well - well above average for the industry. I treat my employees well.

Now many of you here on LGF know that I’m a Muslim.

What’s do stop me from saying to my workers, “You want that paycheck? You want that raise? Mecca’s in that direction. Start praying.”

Mind you, I would never do anything like that, because quite bluntly, I’m not an asshole. It’s not my place to impose my particular beliefs or worldview on anyone.

But are the RW’ers really so stupid that they think matters will invariably go in their direction?

Because, well, because that’s the way George Washington, channeled through St. Ronald Reagan would want it to be. I’ve worked with a few extreme right types over the years, and most simply can’t comprehend that not everybody believes like they do. They are convinced that I must KNOW what the truth is by their definition, and I’m just being too obstinate to acknowledge it.

Sadly, it reminds me of some Americans I’ve seen while in Europe / Mid-East. They are 100% convinced that everybody can speak english, and if they say thing loudly and slowly enough, (with an accent for bonus points), that other person would understand.

Denial isn’t just a river in Egypt you know.

RBS

75 jaunte  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:37:09am
76 BongCrodny  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:37:22am

Here’s another piece from Guttmacher on pre-Roe abortion statistics. Bolded text mine:

Poor women and their families were disproportionately impacted. A study of low-income women in New York City in the 1960s found that almost one in 10 (8%) had ever attempted to terminate a pregnancy by illegal abortion; almost four in 10 (38%) said that a friend, relative or acquaintance had attempted to obtain an abortion. Of the low-income women in that study who said they had had an abortion, eight in 10 (77%) said that they had attempted a self-induced procedure, with only 2% saying that a physician had been involved in any way.

Guttmacher Institute - Lessons from Before Roe: Will Past Be Prologue?

77 Pie-onist Overlord  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:37:37am

The alternative is to stop calling Corporations, “people”

78 HappyWarrior  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:37:55am

re: #48 Pie-onist Overlord

HURR HURR!!!! ARE WIMMENS IS TEH HAWT AND THERE WIMMENS IS TEH FUGLY!!!!! ANY QUESTIONS????!!!!!!!!

[Embedded content]

I’m convinced. Those selected six conservative women are more physically attractive than those liberal women so ergo conservatism is always right.//

79 darthstar  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:38:04am

Apparently from the Hobby Lobby testimony today…sweet smack down.

80 HappyWarrior  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:39:13am

Hobby lobby guy thinks that OBGYNs are satanic. Nice role model you got there wingnuts.

81 darthstar  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:39:58am

Before he abruptly resigned as a top fund-raiser for Gov. Rick Scott, health care executive Mike Fernandez let loose with a litany of complaints in an email obtained by the Herald/Times. He described a “homogeneous” team of campaign advisers who are too scared of Scott to disagree with him and who don’t understand the culture of Hispanic voters whose support he needs to win re-election.

The aftershocks of Fernandez’s resignation remain a distraction for Scott’s campaign, and it underscores a key part of the Democrats’ opposition strategy, that Republicans can’t relate to Hispanic voters. The most explosive part of Fernandez’s Feb. 20 email was his claim, first reported in The Miami Herald, that two Scott campaign aides imitated a Mexican accent while driving to a Mexican restaurant.

Read more here: miamiherald.typepad.com

82 wrenchwench  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:40:29am

re: #72 FemNaziBitch

[Embedded image]

Voting is key. Not just for the guy (or gal) who can appoint judges, but all the way from city council to president.

Local elections are important for two reasons:

1) RWNJs now have the tactic of trying to prohibit clinics from operating in their cities (they failed in Albuquerque last November)

2) Local elections are where politicians start. Let’s nip the misogynists in the bud.

83 Pie-onist Overlord  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:40:41am

“Poor life choices” = wingnut for “choices”

84 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:41:00am

85 RealityBasedSteve  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:41:08am

re: #78 HappyWarrior

I’m convinced. Those selected six conservative women are more physically attractive than those liberal women so ergo conservatism is always right.//

and we should immediately replace the Supreme Court with the Dallas Cowboys Cheerleaders. And I want a Victoria Secrets Model as my doctor, since she’s so hawt, she must know about medicine. /eyeroll

RBS

86 Shiplord Kirel  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:41:09am
What the hell is wrong with these people?

They are losing their power over others, a power to which centuries of custom have persuaded them they are entitled. Men who were not otherwise qualified for leadership have manipulated sexual attitudes to gain power over others. I discussed this extensively in my “freedom for gays is freedom for everyone” posts, but the same principle applies in other areas as well.
They remind me of an arrogant millionaire con-man who is being frog-marched off to jail: wailing, gnashing of teeth, and general screams of victimization.

87 HappyWarrior  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:41:25am

Can we all just agree that National Review is and always was a bit of a rag? I mean I admit I grudgingly respect WFB some because he wasn’t anti-intellectual but then again he also for a long time espoused the belief that Civil Rights were a communist plot and bought the bs that segregation was about states rights. And frankly I think he only started condemning the Birchers when they made right wing fanatics look like well right wing fanatics. The NR has willingly employed into the 21st century people like John Derbyshire who espouse white nationalist beliefs.

88 darthstar  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:41:58am

re: #77 Pie-onist Overlord

The alternative is to stop calling Corporations, “people”

[Embedded content]

If corporations are people, then mass abortions would be considered good for business. “Zynga aborted 130 unviable units to boost 3rd quarter profits last week.”

89 Charles Johnson  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:42:04am
90 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:42:33am

re: #83 Pie-onist Overlord

“Poor life choices” = wingnut for “choices”

[Embedded content]

because poor people don’t have the options wealthlier people do, they cannot buy their way out of their poor choices and therefore get caught.

I think there is supossed to be a comma in there somewhere around the “therefore”. It’s been a long time since 6th grade.

91 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:42:58am

re: #86 Shiplord Kirel

They are losing their power over others, a power to which centuries of custom have persuaded them they are entitled. Men who were not otherwise qualified for leadership have manipulated sexual attitudes to gain power over others. I discussed this extensively in my “freedom for gays is freedom for everyone” posts, but the same principle applies in other areas as well.
They remind me of an arrogant millionaire con-man who is being frog-marched off to jail: wailing, gnashing of teeth, and general screams of victimization.

They can’t handle the Brave New World.

92 HappyWarrior  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:43:31am

re: #89 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Of course, business can do whatever the hell it wants but it’s terrible when the government does it.

93 jaunte  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:43:46am

Libertarian = I got mine, and Devil take the hindmost.

94 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:46:32am

95 Justanotherhuman  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:46:59am

re: #83 Pie-onist Overlord

“Poor life choices” = wingnut for “choices”

[Embedded content]

Not true. My stepmother, from AL, would probably be a RWNJ today, yet she didn’t hesitate to fly to Cuba in the late 50s to get an abortion (we lived in Miami).

96 Justanotherhuman  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:47:49am

re: #89 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Hey, GG’s old hang out…

97 Charles Johnson  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:47:57am
98 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:50:17am
99 GunstarGreen  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:50:53am

re: #46 Justanotherhuman

Ever. I can’t believe some of the rights we fought for back in the Second Wave are being re-fought today, not to mention how some of the younger women are buying into so much male bullshit.

Not to be too MBF about things, but anti-choice bullshit is non-gendered. There are plenty of women (see examples at: Babushka’s Twit Feed) spewing anti-choice nonsense, and there are plenty of men (myself among them) that believe they don’t have any say in what a woman does with her own body.

100 wrenchwench  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:51:00am

re: #76 BongCrodny

Here’s another piece from Guttmacher on pre-Roe abortion statistics. Bolded text mine:

Guttmacher Institute - Lessons from Before Roe: Will Past Be Prologue?

There are plenty of verified and scientific facts at Guttmacher. Williamson probably knows that, but would rather lie and deceive because Patriarchy. He’s paid to help defend it.

101 lawhawk  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:52:04am

Fox News Analyst (and Judge) Andrew Napolitano Says the Contraception Mandate Covers Euthanasia. Megyn Kelly Does Not Disagree.

Here’s what Napolitano told Fox News anchor Megyn Kelly:

As everybody knows, the Affordable Care Act requires anybody that employs 50 or more people to provide health care for them that includes contraceptive services. Contraceptive services means contraception, euthanasia, and abortion.

Yet, the law is absolutely clear on this that it isn’t the case. The FDA lists exactly what is approved or not. Napolitano, and by extension Kelly and Fox News are purposefully deceiving its viewers about the law.

102 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:52:49am

103 Mattand  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:52:54am

re: #33 A Mom Anon

I am still not fucking believing we’re having this damned discussion in 2014.

I think I told this story before, but I saw first hand as a kid what happens in a botched back alley abortion as a kid. A lady I babysat for left two little kids behind because of this so called “non existent” thing. Fuck these guys (and their female counterparts) with a rusty damned coat hanger.

I’m sorry, but men need to STFU about this. Until it’s their body that’s involved, it’s not their bidness. And like they care about The Children anyway. If they did they’d spend their time making sure little kids weren’t going hungry, that every child in foster care had a safe and loving home, that no child had a substandard education, that ending child abuse and child pornography was a priority, need I go on? If they really cared about The Children they’d take their sanctimonious busy body slut shaming bullshit and channel it into making things better for the kids that are ALREADY HERE. Ask any of these “Right to Life” assholes what solutions they have to those problems and they have NO answers except drug testing poor people and cutting school funding. Or maybe some more tax cuts for rich people or letting guns in schools, churches and bars.

There’s a special place in Hell for these fucking assholes.

Let’s not make any mistakes: when you vote GOP, you are voting to eliminate abortion. Which in turn will bring back back alley abortion and the horror it entails.

If you can live with that, that’s up to you. I have to kind of wonder about your empathy level when it comes to women, though.

104 GunstarGreen  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:53:27am

re: #54 Dr Lizardo

As usual, the RWNJ’s aren’t thinking it through.

Let’s say I’m the President of XYZ, Inc.; I employ 400 people, and I pay them very well - well above average for the industry. I treat my employees well.

Now many of you here on LGF know that I’m a Muslim.

What’s do stop me from saying to my workers, “You want that paycheck? You want that raise? Mecca’s in that direction. Start praying.”

Mind you, I would never do anything like that, because quite bluntly, I’m not an asshole. It’s not my place to impose my particular beliefs or worldview on anyone.

But are the RW’ers really so stupid that they think matters will invariably go in their direction?

Yes. Yes they are. See also: Jindal, Bobby.

WHAT DO YOU MEAN MUSLIM SCHOOLS WILL ALSO APPLY FOR THE VOUCHER PROGRAM?!?!?!?!1/1?!1?!?/1/!

105 Kragar  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:53:35am
106 RealityBasedSteve  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:53:56am

re: #41 jaunte

[Embedded content]

The apartment complex under construction that’s in flames. Yesterday there was a story about it being build right next to a cemetary, almost on the fence line. The balconies overlooked the grave stones, and there were some people not happy about it.

khou.com

RBS

107 Dr Lizardo  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:54:39am

re: #104 GunstarGreen

Yes. Yes they are. See also: Jindal, Bobby.

WHAT DO YOU MEAN MUSLIM SCHOOLS WILL ALSO APPLY FOR THE VOUCHER PROGRAM?!?!?!?!1/1?!1?!?/1/!

lolol

As the wingnuts discovered in Louisiana, if I recall correctly.

108 lawhawk  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:54:48am

re: #105 Kragar

109 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:55:04am

re: #95 Justanotherhuman

Not true. My stepmother, from AL, would probably be a RWNJ today, yet she didn’t hesitate to fly to Cuba in the late 50s to get an abortion (we lived in Miami).

And you know about it. A friend of mine who is closer to your age just found out that one of her grandmothers died of an illegal abortion.

Such information wasn’t spoken about. If it was it was never told to the men of the family. They got to live in blissful ignorance thinking their woman were keeping their pedestals neat and tidy.

We don’t know what our own mother’s did, met many (mostly men) would tell you their mothers never would have thought of doing such a thing.

110 BongCrodny  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:55:23am

re: #105 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Jeez, the entire party were RINOs back then.

111 Lidane  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:56:05am
112 sagehen  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:56:56am

re: #53 FemNaziBitch

Yes, I saw a video that said birth rates didn’t change, but maternal death rates decreased. I wasn’t able to track down any hard evidence on that tho.

You have a link?

Sadly, no. And I can’t remember the doctor’s name either… the article I read was either from a page here or at DKos.

113 GunstarGreen  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:57:09am

re: #107 Dr Lizardo

Yeah, that’s what I was referencing. Bobby Jindal as governor of Louisiana and that laughably bad voucher program. He literally never imagined that brown people would take him up on his offer of giving openly-religious schools this voucher system.

114 jaunte  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:57:56am

re: #106 RealityBasedSteve

That Keel woman sounds a little overwrought.

“Those people who move along these edges will experience the decaying, dying energy,” said Keel. “This is not a place for new life.”

115 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:58:04am

re: #113 GunstarGreen

Yeah, that’s what I was referencing. Bobby Jindal as governor of Louisiana and that laughably bad voucher program. He literally never imagined that brown people would take him up on his offer of giving openly-religious schools this voucher system.

Christians seem to have tunnel vision. The religious view that says everyone has a soul doesn’t count everyone as being human.

116 Lidane  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:58:10am

OUTRAGE!

117 jaunte  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:58:56am

re: #116 Lidane

A virtual collectible.

118 RadicalModerate  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:59:28am

re: #77 Pie-onist Overlord

The alternative is to stop calling Corporations, “people”

[Embedded content]

Did the Cato Institute writer of that article actually read the transcripts from today’s Supreme Court arguments? Clement (representing Hobby Lobby) got absolutely ripped apart by Sotomayor and Kagan. Even Alito and Scalia took him to task when he attempted to make a strawman argument during the proceedings.

119 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:59:30am

re: #112 sagehen

Sadly, no. And I can’t remember the doctor’s name either… the article I read was either from a page here or at DKos.

I’ve refrained from using that information in my arguments because I haven’t been able to locate the source.

120 RealityBasedSteve  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 11:59:46am

re: #114 jaunte

That Keel woman sounds a little overwrought.

You caught that line too. I had to do a bit of an eyeroll at that one.

RBS

121 Charles Johnson  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 12:00:57pm
122 Shiplord Kirel  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 12:01:17pm

re: #111 Lidane

[Embedded content]

Noone was killed in Hitler’s occupation of the Rhineland either, only a handful when he did the same in the Sudetenland and all of Czechoslovakia. Then there was Poland.

Rohrabacher is a complete tool, as well as an idiot and a sycophant.

123 Pie-onist Overlord  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 12:01:22pm

TEH STUPID. I JUST CAN’T EVEN.

124 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 12:03:08pm

Really, we need to make this very clear. The argument we have is not about abortion, per se.

It is about individual reproductive choice.

Without it we are no different than China.

125 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 12:03:27pm

re: #121 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Tigers are special.

)

126 bubba zanetti  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 12:03:57pm

re: #123 Pie-onist Overlord

Why should I have to pay for your carpal tunnel treatment? You should have made a responsible choice and bought your own ergonomic keyboard.

///

127 Bulworth  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 12:04:20pm

re: #111 Lidane

Oh, OK. No problem, then. //

128 Dr Lizardo  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 12:04:24pm

re: #116 Lidane

OUTRAGE!

[Embedded content]

Dudebro heads explode across the land!!

129 Sionainn  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 12:04:37pm

re: #79 darthstar

Apparently from the Hobby Lobby testimony today…sweet smack down.

I was just coming here to post about that.

130 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 12:07:21pm

re: #105 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Good one to go with the Young Republicans of 1956 …

131 wrenchwench  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 12:09:00pm
132 Feline Fearless Leader  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 12:09:14pm

re: #121 Charles Johnson

A man who knew his kittehs.
en.wikipedia.org

133 jaunte  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 12:10:55pm
134 Iwouldprefernotto  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 12:11:34pm

re: #133 jaunte

[Embedded content]

How???

135 lawhawk  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 12:12:28pm

re: #116 Lidane

Well, duh!

Even if it was treated as a foreign currency, it would have tax implications.

It was never going to be a tax free transaction. The central question for the IRS was how precisely it would treat it - as a foreign currency, or as property, because there are different taxing consequences.

136 jaunte  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 12:12:32pm

re: #134 Iwouldprefernotto

Redefining ‘Religious liberty.’

137 palmerskiss  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 12:12:37pm

charles - i wrote an add-on page to this article - littlegreenfootballs.com.

with sourcing, etc…. criminalizing abortion kills.

138 calochortus  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 12:13:30pm

re: #134 Iwouldprefernotto

How???

Well, back in the ’70s there were bosses who wouldn’t hire a married woman unless she was on birth control, ‘cause you know they’ll get pregnant and quit otherwise.

139 Shiplord Kirel  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 12:14:18pm

re: #105 Kragar

re: #130 William Barnett-Lewis

Eisenhower, Nixon, Ford. The GOP isn’t what it used to be. I include Nixon because he genuinely rates it. He was a dangerous crook, to be sure, but his foreign policy achievements have passed into legend. He was no slouch on the domestic front either, creating the EPA and OSHA and proposing a comprehensive health care plan that went much farther than the current ACA in many respects .

140 Lidane  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 12:16:19pm

Actually, Tyson is deliberately and straightforwardly giving a whole lot of time to creationism. Why did we have to sit through the history of the eyeball? Creationists love to argue that the complexity of the eyeball disproves evolution. Note how he talked specifically about how the eyeball isn’t actually this perfect mechanism, but something that works well enough for what we need it for, but not as well as it does in fish — the whole idea that the eyeball is a perfect, too-complex thing is a creationist argument.
Another example: Why did Tyson spend so much time explaining the similarities and differences in how polar bears have evolved through natural selection vs. how dogs have changed in the time we’ve been breeding them for certain traits? Because creationists acknowledge that changes within species happen. They just like to pretend like one kind of organism couldn’t really have brought forth another kind of organism.

141 lawhawk  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 12:16:31pm

re: #139 Shiplord Kirel

Yeah, Nixon was one of the more complex presidents in history, and new revelations about his administration looking to cover up Mai Lai implicate him in far more criminal activity than Watergate ever could.

142 Kragar  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 12:16:50pm

re: #139 Shiplord Kirel

Eisenhower, Nixon, Ford. The GOP isn’t what it used to be. I include Nixon because he genuinely rates it. He was a dangerous crook, to be sure, but his foreign policy achievements have passed into legend. He was no slouch on the domestic front either, creating the EPA and OSHA and proposing a comprehensive health care plan that went much farther than the current ACA in many respects .

Policy-wise, Nixon was probably one of the best Presidents post WWII.

Now once you factor in everything else, well, then you run into problems.

143 HappyWarrior  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 12:17:33pm

re: #105 Kragar

[Embedded content]

It’s sad actually.

144 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 12:17:48pm

re: #133 jaunte

[Embedded content]

exactly

145 Lidane  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 12:18:49pm

re: #139 Shiplord Kirel

Eisenhower, Nixon, Ford. The GOP isn’t what it used to be. I include Nixon because he genuinely rates it. He was a dangerous crook, to be sure, but his foreign policy achievements have passed into legend. He was no slouch on the domestic front either, creating the EPA and OSHA and proposing a comprehensive health care plan that went much farther than the current ACA in many respects .

Dangerous fuckery aside, Nixon did a hell of a lot. Taking us off the gold standard, normalizing relations with China, the EPA, OSHA, Title IX, the Clean Air and Clean Water Acts, etc. He did a whole lot that would make him a flaming librul in today’s GOP.

146 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 12:19:40pm

147 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 12:20:10pm

148 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 12:20:21pm

149 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 12:20:39pm

150 FemNaziBitch  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 12:20:56pm

I’m off for a while.

enjoy the afternoon!

151 Bulworth  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 12:21:10pm

ICYMI: One of the America’s largest Christian charities, World Vision, announces they will now permit gay Christians in legal same-sex marriages to be employed at World Vision.

Naturally, some RWNJ “Christians” have not reacted favorably.

152 HappyWarrior  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 12:22:13pm

re: #151 Bulworth

ICYMI: One of the America’s largest Christian charities, World Vision, announces they will now permit gay Christians in legal same-sex marriages to be employed at World Vision.

Naturally, some RWNJ “Christians” have not reacted favorably.

And yet they’ll complain about jobs at the same time. Seems to me that you have no business complaining about employment rates if you want business to willfully discriminate in their hiring practices but that’s conservatism for you.

153 Kragar  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 12:22:28pm

re: #151 Bulworth

ICYMI: One of the America’s largest Christian charities, World Vision, announces they will now permit gay Christians in legal same-sex marriages to be employed at World Vision.

Naturally, some RWNJ “Christians” have not reacted favorably.

You don’t say?

154 Justanotherhuman  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 12:22:32pm

Look out!

Blizzard warning issued for Cape Cod, Mass.; winter storm to bring heavy snow, strong winds - @WCVB

read more on wcvb.com

155 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 12:23:03pm
156 HappyWarrior  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 12:23:13pm

I always liked the Goldwater saying he said to Dole in ‘96 about how guys like him and Dole were the new liberals in the party after a generation before having been its conservative. The aforementioned Nixon after all was chosen to boost Ike’s ties with the conservative wing of the party in ‘52.

157 jaunte  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 12:23:16pm

Unbelievable.

Both Kagan and Sotomayor also said that it wasn’t such a substantial burden on the plaintiffs for employer plans to cover contraception, because the employers could just opt out of offering insurance at all and send their employees to the exchanges, thus diluting their involvement in paying for it. But Clement insisted that would also hurt Hobby Lobby by making it pay a fee, and that providing insurance coverage was also part of their religious belief. (Ginsburg was incredulous on that point.)
msnbc.com

158 HappyWarrior  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 12:23:55pm

re: #153 Kragar

You don’t say?

[Embedded content]

Or gee Bryan, maybe they realize that discriminatory hiring practices keep them from being effective. Did you sell your soul to be this stupid?

159 palmerskiss  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 12:24:15pm

re: #154 Justanotherhuman

Look out!

Blizzard warning issued for Cape Cod, Mass.; winter storm to bring heavy snow, strong winds - @WCVB

read more on wcvb.com

thanx - lol that means here on hummarock we are going to get slammed!!

160 HappyWarrior  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 12:24:33pm

re: #157 jaunte

Unbelievable.

Neddy doesn’t believe in insurance. He considers it a form of gambling.

161 HappyWarrior  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 12:25:48pm

WHY ISN’T OBAMA DOING ENOUGH ABOUT JOBS
WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO REFUSE TO HIRE PEOPLE BECAUSE OF THEIR SEXUAL ORIENTATION BUT WE AREN’T BIGOTS LIBTARD.

162 palmerskiss  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 12:25:49pm

wcvb.com

hokey smokes time for me to put on my snow suit!

163 Kragar  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 12:26:58pm

Seriously, if I was stuck working for a POS company like Hobby Lobby, I’d tell them to stuff their fucking insurance, give me the money, then sign up for ACA.

164 palmerskiss  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 12:27:05pm

snow sale!!! snow sale!!! need snow? we have everything you need, fire snow sale!!!! its a fire sale and the snow is going fast!! get yours now while you can

$7000 an inch - 7.5 inches left to sell!! dont wait until it melts! get your snow now!

165 Shiplord Kirel  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 12:28:34pm

re: #153 Kragar

Bryan Fischer @BryanJFischer
Follow
My latest column: Did World Vision sell its soul to Obama for filthy lucre? onenewsnow.com
[Embedded content]

No, Bryan, it’s just that World Vision would rather continue its mandate to feed the hungry, clothe the naked, comfort the afflicted, etc. than bash people for their private lives. Where would they get such a weirdly inverted view of Christianity anyway?/

166 Justanotherhuman  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 12:29:04pm

re: #163 Kragar

Seriously, if I was stuck working for a POS company like Hobby Lobby, I’d tell them to stuff their fucking insurance, give me the money, then sign up for ACA.

Possibly some employees already qualify for Medicaid anyway, depending on where they live.

167 Pie-onist Overlord  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 12:29:23pm

HURR HURR!!! TEH JRRB CREATORS CAN HAS ALL TEH RIGHTS!!!!! TEH LAZY MOOCHER EMPLOYEES CAN HAS NOE RIGHTS!!!!!11!!!

168 Mike Lamb  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 12:29:46pm

re: #83 Pie-onist Overlord

“Poor life choices” = wingnut for “choices”

[Embedded content]

Born into poverty? Choose better parents.

Poor due to medical bankruptcy? Should have chosen to be healthy.

Pregnant because you were raped? She should have chosen to be stronger in order to fight off the attacker. Or chosen to be immune to date rape drugs.

Female contraceptives not offered in standard insurance plans? You should choose to live in another country.

169 HappyWarrior  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 12:31:06pm

re: #168 Mike Lamb

Born into poverty? Choose better parents.

Poor due to medical bankruptcy? Should have chosen to be healthy.

Pregnant because you were raped? She should have chosen to be stronger in order to fight off the attacker. Or chosen to be immune to date rape drugs.

Female contraceptives not offered in standard insurance plans? You should choose to live in another country.

Seriously fuck conservatives and their attitude. They don’t want the government to help improve people’s lots but they sure do love them some government when it comes to punishing people.

170 Kragar  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 12:32:16pm

re: #167 Pie-onist Overlord

HURR HURR!!! TEH JRRB CREATORS CAN HAS ALL TEH RIGHTS!!!!! TEH LAZY MOOCHER EMPLOYEES CAN HAS NOE RIGHTS!!!!!11!!!

[Embedded content]

Religious liberty is only for those with the money to enforce it.

171 A Mom Anon  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 12:32:33pm

re: #157 jaunte

So, if Hobby Lobby is a corporation, arguing that they also have rights to freedom of religion, like an actual person, AND they win this freakosaurus lawsuit, wouldn’t it also mean that it would be easier to sue a company AND its CEO? Because that might be an awesome unintended consequence of this idiocy.

172 jaunte  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 12:32:39pm

re: #167 Pie-onist Overlord

I stand with the Green family’s right to not take as many contraceptives as they can not take.

173 HappyWarrior  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 12:33:49pm

We hate big government says the ideology that brought you the large expansion of the war on drugs in the 80’s, that has never met a new prison they haven’t liked, loves the death penalty, and wants a continued bloated defense budget but don’t worry, they’re for small government and individual rights. They told me so!

174 Kragar  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 12:34:46pm
175 Justanotherhuman  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 12:34:47pm

Oh, hell no!

Kansas can strip Planned Parenthood funding, appeals court rules

Read more here: kansascity.com

176 palmerskiss  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 12:34:50pm

how do you reduce the level of abortions? provide more birth control and sex education….which is exactly why the right are trying to ban both.

177 jaunte  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 12:34:58pm

re: #171 A Mom Anon

The pretense that a corporation can have protected religious beliefs is legally dangerous and will produce a lot of arbitrary outcomes.

178 Mike Lamb  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 12:35:09pm

re: #167 Pie-onist Overlord

HURR HURR!!! TEH JRRB CREATORS CAN HAS ALL TEH RIGHTS!!!!! TEH LAZY MOOCHER EMPLOYEES CAN HAS NOE RIGHTS!!!!!11!!!

[Embedded content]

Allowing their employees to purchase health insurance that covers female contraception would cost them their livelihood? Sounds like their business plan isn’t a good one.

Aside from my continuous rant that Hobby Lobby isn’t being required to pay for jack and/or shit with regards to birth control, let us not forget that this entire bullshit is over Hobby Lobby having to make available insurance plans that just gives employees the option of coverage for contraception. It’s something that their employees might never even use.

Fuck, I hate these people. And I hate hating anything. Such wasted energy.

179 b.d.  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 12:35:41pm

re: #174 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Greedy, you left out greedy.

180 Kragar  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 12:36:46pm
181 gwangung  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 12:37:01pm
Both Kagan and Sotomayor also said that it wasn’t such a substantial burden on the plaintiffs for employer plans to cover contraception, because the employers could just opt out of offering insurance at all and send their employees to the exchanges, thus diluting their involvement in paying for it. But Clement insisted that would also hurt Hobby Lobby by making it pay a fee, and that providing insurance coverage was also part of their religious belief. (Ginsburg was incredulous on that point.)

Why should she be? They don’t worship God. They worship Mammon.

182 Kragar  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 12:37:09pm

re: #179 b.d.

Greedy, you left out greedy.

I only had 140 characters

183 HappyWarrior  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 12:37:52pm

re: #180 Kragar

[Embedded content]

And that is conservatism in a crux. Businesses can do whatever the hell they want because liberty freedom but it’s tyranny if government is involved in making health insurance more affordable.

184 jaunte  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 12:39:47pm

Because Sundays are the only holy day!

185 Mike Lamb  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 12:41:27pm

re: #177 jaunte

The pretense that a corporation can have protected religious beliefs is legally dangerous and will produce a lot of arbitrary outcomes.

I generally oppose the slippery slope argument because I think it tends to be pretty shallow analysis and lazy thinking. With that said, if corporations are granted what would be, in effect, the rights of conscientious objectors? That’s Pandora’s Box.

186 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 12:41:31pm

Hobby Lobby is not providing contraception, it is just providing the option as part of its insurance benefits.

Just like it pays employees money that they can optionally use on alcohol, gambling or lurid sexual diversions. This does not mean it is paying for their visit to lapdance clubs or drunken gambling sprees.

Their “religious freedom” and “freedom of speech” covers their right to express to their employees that they do not think they should exercise that option.

187 Mike Lamb  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 12:43:23pm

re: #184 jaunte

[Embedded image]

Because Sundays are the only holy day!

There’s no way that’s real. Or just tell me it’s not real and let me live in ignorance.

188 gwangung  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 12:43:28pm

re: #184 jaunte

[Embedded image]

Because Sundays are the only holy day!

That’s still an insulting answer. You’re considering the corporation’s religious beliefs, but NOT the employees? Thats not respect at all.

189 leftynyc  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 12:43:51pm

re: #15 Charles Johnson

Kevin D. Williamson is a disgusting pig. This article is vile.

The comments are even worse.

190 calochortus  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 12:46:36pm

re: #184 jaunte

[Embedded image]

Because Sundays are the only holy day!

I have read that the “Sundays off” thing is only for employees in the retail stores. If you work in the warehouse, you may well have to work on the sabbath. In other words, it’s window dressing.

191 Kragar  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 12:47:20pm
192 Internet Tough Guy  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 12:50:00pm

re: #191 Kragar

Blow her mind. Tell her that birth control pills have other uses.

And that warehouse workers work on the Sabbath.

193 Bulworth  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 12:50:45pm

re: #191 Kragar

Got a real enlightened one there, I see.

194 Internet Tough Guy  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 12:51:55pm

Well, if screwing is the problem, obviously, viagra won’t be covered amirite?

195 wrenchwench  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 12:51:59pm

re: #189 leftynyc

The comments are even worse.

Youtube Video

196 palmerskiss  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 12:52:26pm
197 Shiplord Kirel  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 12:52:57pm

Too bad about Hobby Lobby being run by whackos.

With their 40% off any item coupon I got a terrific deal on the Monogram 1/48th scale B-29 model kit, just $32.50 for this huge (3” wingspan) and beautifully detailed kit.

Oh well, priorities, priorities……..

198 A Mom Anon  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 12:53:18pm

re: #191 Kragar

How in the hell does this even come close to violating Hobby Lobby’s religious anything? They are not being asked to pay for anyone’s birth control. The EMPLOYEE is the one paying for the insurance premium and the prescription. In essence, what they are doing is telling employees how they can spend their money. This woman is an idiot.

Also, wasn’t there also something where they were claiming they had the right to insist the doctors had no right to even talk with their employees about contraception? And, if I’m reading all the stuff about this case correctly, Hobby Lobby did cover some forms of b/c and then backtracked on that when it came time to take this to court. My guess is that they’re freaking out about Plan B, which is not going to have an effect on the cost of premiums any way, it’s one medication out of many available that could be considered b/c.

199 Internet Tough Guy  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 12:53:41pm

re: #196 palmerskiss

HAHA OH WOW

200 A Mom Anon  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 12:55:08pm

re: #199 Internet Tough Guy

She’s impervious to irony.

201 palmerskiss  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 12:57:11pm

re: #200 A Mom Anon

She’s impervious to irony.

lol indeed.

202 lawhawk  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 12:57:29pm

What good is an employer giving me Sunday off for the Sabbath when I’m Jewish and Saturday is my Sabbath (or if I’m Muslim, Friday), to say nothing of the sundown to sundown nature of Jewish and Muslim religious obligations?

203 Flying Squirrel Girl  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 12:57:31pm

re: #190 calochortus

Yes it is. My cousin works in the warehouse and she most definitely has to work Sundays and occasionally holidays too. And you see HL trucks on the road on Sundays too. It is absolutely window dressing.

204 Kragar  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 12:59:20pm
205 Shiplord Kirel  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 1:00:35pm

re: #174 Kragar

Its becoming increasing difficult to remember a time when conservatism didn’t equate with being an evil vindictive bastard

You’d have to go back several decades at least. JFK and then senator Barry Goldwater were polar opposites politically, but great friends and drinking/fishing buddies in private life. In his autobiography, Goldwater relates that he and Kennedy realized as early as 1962 that they might be opposing each other in the 1964 presidential campaign. They cooked up a plan for a joint whistle-stop campaign tour, in which they would take the same train around the country and stop and hold debates along the way. With both being noted party animals, it might have eventually ranked with some of the rock and roll tours of the period. Alas, JFK made his ill fated trip to Dallas and it was not to be.

206 Sionainn  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 1:01:19pm

re: #178 Mike Lamb

Allowing their employees to purchase health insurance that covers female contraception would cost them their livelihood? Sounds like their business plan isn’t a good one.

Aside from my continuous rant that Hobby Lobby isn’t being required to pay for jack and/or shit with regards to birth control, let us not forget that this entire bullshit is over Hobby Lobby having to make available insurance plans that just gives employees the option of coverage for contraception. It’s something that their employees might never even use.

Fuck, I hate these people. And I hate hating anything. Such wasted energy.

The most hypocritical thing about this is that Hobby Lobby did provide contraceptive coverage until the ACA, when they decided that it was against their religion.

207 Justanotherhuman  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 1:01:51pm

White House Correspondents Association condemns ‘outrageous’ Saudi Arabia refusal to grant Jerusalem Post journalist a visa for Obama visit - @OKnox

end of alert

It is outrageous. It’s a journalist, for crying out loud.

208 Charles Johnson  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 1:02:44pm

re: #191 Kragar

Probably a dude.

209 Justanotherhuman  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 1:03:15pm

re: #206 Sionainn

The most hypocritical thing about this is that Hobby Lobby did provide contraceptive coverage until the ACA, when they decided that it was against their religion.

So in reality, this comes out to be just another assault on Obamacare.

210 lawhawk  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 1:03:24pm

re: #206 Sionainn

It’s that fact that should force the Court to rule against them here, and at the lower levels - it wasn’t so much of a belief as a ruse. If they believed in not providing BC, why did they provide it before.

It’s about pushing a sociopolitical idea under the guise of religion, when it’s about a corporation exerting its power over employees in ways that should not be allowed.

211 Kragar  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 1:05:02pm
212 Bulworth  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 1:07:04pm

re: #206 Sionainn

Was this something that came up at today’s Court session? I hadn’t heard this before.

213 Sionainn  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 1:07:46pm

re: #209 Justanotherhuman

So in reality, this comes out to be just another assault on Obamacare.

Of course. Same thing with the Catholic institutions who had birth control coverage for their employees. They cancelled that when they decided they hated the ACA.

214 gwangung  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 1:07:50pm

re: #211 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Slightly irritating that she jumps back and forth between beliefs and facts, and won’t admit (but probably knows) that her beliefs shouldn’t be imposed on other people.

215 Mike Lamb  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 1:07:53pm

re: #206 Sionainn

The most hypocritical thing about this is that Hobby Lobby did provide contraceptive coverage until the ACA, when they decided that it was against their religion.

I don’t understand how the latter part doesn’t just end the case. I really don’t. It reveals this whole charade to be a tantrum and/or being mad at a bla in the White House.

216 Sionainn  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 1:08:20pm

re: #210 lawhawk

It’s that fact that should force the Court to rule against them here, and at the lower levels - it wasn’t so much of a belief as a ruse. If they believed in not providing BC, why did they provide it before.

It’s about pushing a sociopolitical idea under the guise of religion, when it’s about a corporation exerting its power over employees in ways that should not be allowed.

My thoughts exactly.

217 Sionainn  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 1:09:38pm

re: #215 Mike Lamb

I don’t understand how the latter part doesn’t just end the case. I really don’t. It reveals this whole charade to be a tantrum and/or being mad at a bla in the White House.

I don’t think that’s been missed by Sotomayor and Ginsberg. I’m hoping there’s going to be some real arm twisting and arguments behind closed doors with the bozos on the court.

218 Backwoods_Sleuth  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 1:14:04pm
During oral arguments Tuesday about the validity of Obamacare’s birth control mandate, Justice Elena Kagan cleverly invoked Justice Antonin Scalia’s past warning that religious-based exceptions to neutral laws could lead to “anarchy.”

“Your understanding of this law, your interpretation of it, would essentially subject the entire U.S. Code to the highest test in constitutional law, to a compelling interest standard,” she told Paul Clement, the lawyer arguing against the mandate for Hobby Lobby and Conestoga Wood. “So another employer comes in and that employer says, I have a religious objection to sex discrimination laws; and then another employer comes in, I have a religious objection to minimum wage laws; and then another, family leave; and then another, child labor laws. And all of that is subject to the exact same test which you say is this unbelievably high test, the compelling interest standard with the least restrictive alternative.”

Kagan Throws Scalia’s Own Religious Liberty Arguments Back In His Face

219 lawhawk  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 1:19:07pm
CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS: I thought — I thought that part of the religious commitment of the owners was to provide health care for its employees.

And I may have to kill my twitter feed for all the ignorance about the ACA and the Supreme Court decision affirming the legality of the ACA. Thanks Kragar!

220 Kragar  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 1:22:01pm
221 palmerskiss  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 1:22:12pm

re: #219 lawhawk

And I may have to kill my twitter feed for all the ignorance about the ACA and the Supreme Court decision affirming the legality of the ACA. Thanks Kragar!

lol she just tried to link us to a walid shoebat blog post

that is nuts…shoebat is nuts

222 kirkspencer  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 1:23:41pm

re: #123 Pie-onist Overlord

So when do I get a list of what men over 50 are getting Viagra prescriptions? Oh, and I need to know what all is being bought with those social security payments. Hey, all those people getting military pensions better be getting their paperwork in order as well.

(there are not enough ///// in the world)

223 Kragar  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 1:23:43pm

re: #221 palmerskiss

lol she just tried to link us to a walid shoebat blog post

[Embedded content]

that is nuts…shoebat is nuts

Yeah, I called her out on this

224 palmerskiss  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 1:25:39pm

re: #223 Kragar

Yeah, I called her out on this

not the first time a rightwinger has thrown shoebat in my direction - what is puzzling is why shoebat? the man has zero credibility…two weeks ago he was talking about the anti-christ and how putin is the great christian soldier out to stop obama the anti-christ

225 Kragar  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 1:25:50pm

And now, she is the real victim in all this

226 palmerskiss  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 1:26:57pm

re: #225 Kragar

as far as they are concerned - being argued with is a violation of their basic human rights.

using religious dogma to control and oppress? that is god’s will..god willing.

227 wrenchwench  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 1:27:28pm

re: #225 Kragar

And now, she is the real victim in all this

[Embedded content]

Completes the DARVO cycle.

228 Khal Wimpo  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 1:28:33pm

My great aunt worked in the maternity wards in Chicago back in the 20s and 30s. She has now passed, but I remember one night, she started talking about what she saw back then … the “poor scared young girls who came in all twisted up because they’d been trying to fix things on their own. All tore up inside. This was before all the miracle antibiotics, and by the time they came in, it was a death sentence.”

She said that the best they could do was drug them up to try to kill the pain. And that the deaths were written down as “bacterial infection” to keep the shame off the family. She was a gentle lady, but that was as close I ever saw her to actual rage.

229 palmerskiss  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 1:30:18pm

re: #228 Khal Wimpo

My great aunt worked in the maternity wards in Chicago back in the 20s and 30s. She has now passed, but I remember one night, she started talking about what she saw back then … the “poor scared young girls who came in all twisted up because they’d been trying to fix things on their own. All tore up inside. This was before all the miracle antibiotics, and by the time they came in, it was a death sentence.”

She said that the best they could do was drug them up to try to kill the pain. And that the deaths were written down as “bacterial infection” to keep the shame off the family. She was a gentle lady, but that was as close I ever saw her to actual rage.

my vagina my choice! i control what goes in and what comes out….. mine!!!

230 palmerskiss  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 1:33:20pm

would the right support a toll system instead of legalized abortions? so running with their claim a foetus is a human in its own right - but still understanding it is my vagina - can i not charge the feotus a toll?

considering businesses are people too - and apparently vagina’s - would not my vagina have a right to charge for access to its transportation network?
a toll road so to speak?

and considering the feotus is a person - which of course means it is beholden to all u.s. statutes and laws - including debt and payment - if the feotus did not pay i have the right to not allow it to use my transportation network until it does pay for the said service?

and if it does not pay- can i sue this foetus person inside me for non payment?

231 Backwoods_Sleuth  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 1:33:46pm

BOOM!

232 Iwouldprefernotto  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 1:35:50pm

re: #230 palmerskiss

would the right support a toll system instead of legalized abortions? so running with their claim a foetus is a human in its own right - but still understanding it is my vagina - can i not charge the feotus a toll? considering business are people too - and apparently vagina’s - would not my vagina have a right to charge for access to its transportation network? a toll road so to speak? and considering the feotus is a person - which of course means it is beholden to all u.s. statutes and laws - including debt and payment - if the feotus did not pay i have the right to not allow it to use my transportation network until it does pay for the said service?

and if it does not pay- can i sue this foetus person inside me for non payment?

The only thing the right will support is NO SEX. They are extreme and that’s why they will lose in the long run.

233 Killgore Trout  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 1:37:04pm

re: #209 Justanotherhuman

So in reality, this comes out to be just another assault on Obamacare.

Yes and no. Hobby Lobby is not trying to get an exemption for most forms of birth control, the issue is abortion and the day after pill. The “assault on Obamacare” is true in the sense that they’re exploring if the exemptions for non-profits should also apply to for profit business as well. The reality of the case is actually interesting and complex.

234 EPR-radar  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 1:37:33pm

re: #228 Khal Wimpo

My great aunt worked in the maternity wards in Chicago back in the 20s and 30s. She has now passed, but I remember one night, she started talking about what she saw back then … the “poor scared young girls who came in all twisted up because they’d been trying to fix things on their own. All tore up inside. This was before all the miracle antibiotics, and by the time they came in, it was a death sentence.”

She said that the best they could do was drug them up to try to kill the pain. And that the deaths were written down as “bacterial infection” to keep the shame off the family. She was a gentle lady, but that was as close I ever saw her to actual rage.

Many so-cons want to return precisely to this state of affairs where women routinely die of botched abortions. They like having visible reminders of the “wages of sin” they offensively preach about.

This is both evil and depraved, and Williamson’s enabling of this line of thinking with the disgusting propaganda piece cited in the OP is no better.

235 Justanotherhuman  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 1:38:09pm

I think Bruce Braley just fucked himself.

Iowa Dem Senate hopeful dismisses Grassley as ‘farmer from Iowa who never went to law school’

washingtonpost.com

Grassley was seen wandering around, muttering, “First thing, we kill all the lawyers…”

236 palmerskiss  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 1:38:35pm

re: #233 Killgore Trout

Yes and no. Hobby Lobby is not trying to get an exemption for most forms of birth control, the issue is abortion and the day after pill. The “assault on Obamacare” is true in the sense that they’re exploring if the exemptions for non-profits should also apply to for profit business as well. The reality of the case is actually interesting and complex.

enough evidence has been posted to completely suggest you are an apologist for much more than you claim.

you know the evidence has been posted - you still thought that was a good comment.

why?

237 makeitstop  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 1:39:21pm

OT: Here’s a great beer ad featuring Elvis, Tupac, Marilyn, Lennon, Cobain and Bruce Lee. Pretty cool.

Youtube Video

239 Sionainn  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 1:40:33pm

re: #233 Killgore Trout

Yes and no. Hobby Lobby is not trying to get an exemption for most forms of birth control, the issue is abortion and the day after pill. The “assault on Obamacare” is true in the sense that they’re exploring if the exemptions for non-profits should also apply to for profit business as well. The reality of the case is actually interesting and complex.

Bullshit.

240 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 1:40:51pm

I question the timing..

241 Killgore Trout  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 1:41:10pm

re: #236 palmerskiss

enough evidence has been posted to completely suggest you are an apologist for much more than you claim.

you know the evidence has been posted - you still thought that was a good comment.

why?

I respect the rights of those I disagree with.

242 gwangung  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 1:41:11pm

re: #233 Killgore Trout

Yes and no. Hobby Lobby is not trying to get an exemption for most forms of birth control, the issue is abortion and the day after pill. The “assault on Obamacare” is true in the sense that they’re exploring if the exemptions for non-profits should also apply to for profit business as well. The reality of the case is actually interesting and complex.

I don’t think you’ve read the case at all. You’re just knee jerking.

243 palmerskiss  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 1:41:43pm

re: #241 Killgore Trout

I respect the rights of those I disagree with.

there is disagreement and willful ignorance…

244 gwangung  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 1:42:35pm

re: #241 Killgore Trout

I respect the rights of those I disagree with.

Demonstrably untrue. You disrespect my intelligence by putting forth a bald faced lie in #233.

245 nines09  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 1:43:04pm

re: #209 Justanotherhuman

So in reality, this comes out to be just another assault on Obamacare.

That is it in a nutshell. Something they covered before is now an insult to their “god”. On this line of reasoning I can have society grind to a halt and devolve to the point of not being viable for anyone.

246 A Mom Anon  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 1:45:18pm

re: #242 gwangung

They had no problems with birth control til the ACA became law. That’s kind of a tell right there. It’s also a sneaky way to undo a whole host of other things like equal protection and civil rights. And again, Hobby Lobby isn’t paying for or providing birth control. The insurance company, doctors and pharmacies are. It’s Hobby Lobby telling it’s employees how to spend their hard earned money. It’s bullshit and it never should have made it this far.

247 Kragar  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 1:47:18pm
248 William Barnett-Lewis  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 1:47:32pm

re: #236 palmerskiss

enough evidence has been posted to completely suggest you are an apologist for much more than you claim.

you know the evidence has been posted - you still thought that was a good comment.

why?

Only one word needed to answer that - Troll.

249 Khal Wimpo  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 1:48:29pm

re: #234 EPR-radar

Just thinking about this depresses me. I hate to say it, but it may take some celebrity/sport figure’s kid getting sick or injured because of a back-alley abortion for this issue to get any traction. Nothing gets coverage on our shallow cable news networks like celebrities, after all.

Teh Poorz - they can be safely ignored. But America’s Royalty - they get wall-to-wall coverage.

250 allegro  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 1:49:22pm

re: #246 A Mom Anon

They had no problems with birth control til the ACA became law. That’s kind of a tell right there. It’s also a sneaky way to undo a whole host of other things like equal protection and civil rights. And again, Hobby Lobby isn’t paying for or providing birth control. The insurance company, doctors and pharmacies are. It’s Hobby Lobby telling it’s employees how to spend their hard earned money. It’s bullshit and it never should have made it this far.

But… but… debating what rights women “deserve” is interesting, doncha know. It’s not like it’s our fucking actual lives that some seem to feel are open for their intellectual wankery.

251 Kragar  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 1:50:44pm
252 EPR-radar  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 1:51:53pm

re: #249 Khal Wimpo

Just thinking about this depresses me. I hate to say it, but it may take some celebrity/sport figure’s kid getting sick or injured because of a back-alley abortion for this issue to get any traction. Nothing gets coverage on our shallow cable news networks like celebrities, after all.

Teh Poorz - they can be safely ignored. But America’s Royalty - they get wall-to-wall coverage.

That will never happen. The wealthy have always had access to abortion, and always will, unless the US hard right wins a political victory so total that they really do take us back to 1000 AD and break the power of the US oligarchy.

I’n no fan of this oligarchy, but this particular cure would be much worse than the disease.

253 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 1:52:21pm
254 palmerskiss  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 1:52:27pm

re: #251 Kragar

keep your christian dogmatic governmental hands out of my manties!

255 dog philosopher  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 1:53:31pm

hobby lobby

might could be that it is a case designed to lose => exhibit a in the fall for evangelicals who believe obama forces them to worship communism

256 Kragar  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 1:55:20pm
257 A Mom Anon  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 1:55:56pm

re: #255 dog philosopher

maybe, but have no doubt in your mind that these people want everyone to suffer for their religion and political/ideological beliefs. They are sociopaths.

258 EPR-radar  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 1:58:09pm

re: #255 dog philosopher

hobby lobby

might could be that it is a case designed to lose => exhibit a in the fall for evangelicals who believe obama forces them to worship communism

This seems unlikely to me. The reward for the RWNJs if they win is very large here, IMO, and this supreme court can go either way on these issues.

I’m reminded of how the origin of the US religious right movement is more likely the loss of tax exempt status for segregated religious schools in the early 70s than the 1973 Roe v. Wade decision.

259 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 1:58:58pm

re: #241 Killgore Trout

I respect the rights of those I disagree with.

Whose rights?

260 Sionainn  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 2:01:54pm

re: #256 Kragar

She identifies herself as Irish-American. Why do I get the feeling that she takes issue with other hyphenated Americans?

261 A Mom Anon  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 2:02:07pm

You know who is conspicuously missing from these discussions? Libertarians. You never hear from them about abortion or reproductive rights. Or minority rights or worker’s rights. Funny that.

262 Pie-onist Overlord  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 2:02:14pm

re: #256 Kragar

[Embedded content]

I’m surprised “she” hasn’t blocked you already. Maybe a parody account? Usually by this time in the conversation whatever wingnut I’m arguing with is all HURR HURR!!!!! U DETROIT YOONYUN THUG COMMUNIST!!!!! BLOCKED!!!!!!!1!!!

263 Pie-onist Overlord  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 2:02:49pm

re: #261 A Mom Anon

You know who is conspicuously missing from these discussions? Libertarians. You never hear from them about abortion or reproductive rights. Or minority rights or worker’s rights. Funny that.

BECAUSE DRONEZ!!!!!1!!! BITCOINZ!!!!!!!!

264 Killgore Trout  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 2:03:28pm

re: #255 dog philosopher

hobby lobby

might could be that it is a case designed to lose => exhibit a in the fall for evangelicals who believe obama forces them to worship communism

Doubtful. They do have a case strong enough for the supreme court to hear it. I don’t know if anyone is putting odds on this but I think it could go either way.

265 ObserverArt  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 2:03:40pm

re: #59 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

you just nailed it. companies exist to make profits, that is a big difference between them and flesh-and-blood persons

Ummm…it does seem there are certain individuals that only exist to profit too.

I think some of them are discussed around here a lot.

And as a man, let me say that I want the women of this board to know that not ALL men are the problem with this issues. Just as not ALL women are fighting to stop Hobby Lobby. I sure understand the frustration of the women of this blog/discussion forum…but please do not throw all men under the bus and think we are all against women having reproductive rights, child rearing and nurturing and education. And if women really want to fight the Republican/Conservative/Religious Zealots they will need some of the men on their side too and surely not shutting up.

Okay…off my soapbox and back to work.

266 HappyWarrior  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 2:04:00pm

re: #261 A Mom Anon

You know who is conspicuously missing from these discussions? Libertarians. You never hear from them about abortion or reproductive rights. Or minority rights or worker’s rights. Funny that.

Oh but you do, it’s just that workers don’t have the same rights that businesses have. But yeah so many “libertarians” out there who talk about how they want the government out of their lives but yet have no problem with Hobby Lobby getting involved in the private lives of their employees.

267 EPR-radar  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 2:04:17pm

re: #261 A Mom Anon

You know who is conspicuously missing from these discussions? Libertarians. You never hear from them about abortion or reproductive rights. Or minority rights or worker’s rights. Funny that.

No surprise at all, of course. Libertarianism boils down to freedom for the ultra wealthy and nobody else so often that the statistical outliers can usually be dismissed as irrelevant.

268 HappyWarrior  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 2:05:08pm

re: #267 EPR-radar

No surprise at all, of course. Libertarianism boils down to freedom for the ultra wealthy and nobody else so often that the statistical outliers can usually be dismissed as irrelevant.

Libertarianism honestly at its core is rooted in the same kind of fantasies that Marxists believe Only instead of blind faith in the government, they have blind faith in the market.

269 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 2:05:53pm

re: #268 HappyWarrior

Libertarianism honestly at its core is rooted in the same kind of fantasies that Marxists people. Only instead of blind faith in the government, they have blind faith in the market.

Libertarians/Classical Liberals tend to have read only very select bits from Adam Smith, and ignored the stuff about positive rights almost entirely. Then they’ve ignored the actual economic history of the United States. It takes a lot of ignoring to maintain that stance.

270 Amory Blaine  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 2:06:11pm

If this Hobby Lobby thing goes through there needs to be upfront disclosure for job applicants. Why should people waste their time applying for jobs when da boss says right after showing you your desk, “oh yeah there is no blood transfusions in our health plan”.

271 HappyWarrior  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 2:06:47pm

re: #269 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

Libertarians/Classical Liberals tend to have read only very select bits from Adam Smith, and ignored the stuff about positive rights almost entirely. Then they’ve ignored the actual economic history of the United States. It takes a lot of ignoring to maintain that stance.

Yep. We never were economically what they seem to believe what we were pre New Deal/Progressive Era.

272 Kragar  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 2:07:21pm

re: #270 Amory Blaine

If this Hobby Lobby thing goes through there needs to be upfront disclosure for job applicants. Why should people waste their time applying for jobs when da boss says right after showing you your desk, “oh yeah there is no blood transfusions in our health plan”.

Hobby Lobby is the perfect example as to why we need Single Payer.

273 Sionainn  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 2:08:58pm

re: #265 ObserverArt

Ummm…it does seem there are certain individuals that only exist to profit too.

I think some of them are discussed around here a lot.

And as a man, let me say that I want the women of this board to know that not ALL men are the problem with this issues. Just as not ALL women are fighting to stop Hobby Lobby. I sure understand the frustration of the women of this blog/discussion forum…but please do not throw all men under the bus and think we are all against women having reproductive rights, child rearing and nurturing and education. And if women really want to fight the Republican/Conservative/Religious Zealots they will need some of the men on their side too and surely not shutting up.

Okay…off my soapbox and back to work.

We know that. Most of the men here are very pro-women’s rights and are appalled at what is going on. :-)

274 HappyWarrior  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 2:10:17pm

People get upset about big government etc etc but rarely ever do those people have a problem with big business having an equally bigger stranglehold. Here’s an example. People flipping out over the NSA yet ignoring that Facebook gathers more personal information on individuals than the NSA could ever dream about.

275 Pie-onist Overlord  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 2:10:54pm

Oh, look who just popped up on Teh TCOT
Our old friend

276 Bulworth  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 2:11:10pm

re: #261 A Mom Anon

They can’t be bothered with such tripe as women’s rights or the rights and freedom of workers. There are more important things for them to obsess over, like how creating healthcare markets through the ACA are so totally not free market liberty freedom capitalism markets.

//

277 palmerskiss  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 2:11:39pm

re: #275 Pie-onist Overlord

Oh, look who just popped up on Teh TCOT
Our old friend

[Embedded content]

how is health insurance free?

278 Killgore Trout  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 2:12:18pm

re: #272 Kragar

Hobby Lobby is the perfect example as to why we need Single Payer.

It may come to that, it certainly would avoid a lot of difficulties and it’s a model that has worked in plenty of other countries. If Hobby Lobby wins we are at least looking at a legal tweak to Obamacare so it passes Constitutional muster.

279 nines09  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 2:12:33pm

re: #270 Amory Blaine

If this Hobby Lobby thing goes through there needs to be upfront disclosure for job applicants. Why should people waste their time applying for jobs when da boss says right after showing you your desk, “oh yeah there is no blood transfusions in our health plan”.

Hope you don’t eat shellfish. That’s a sin. I’m Jewish and if you eat bacon I can’t hire you. I’m Muslim and you will have to cover your hair. I’m Rastafarian and you cannot eat meat. I’m fucking nuts but I have power because I believe in god. I cannot hire you if you are black. My bible says you are lesser. Women cannot drive, it’s against divine principal. My god thinks your god wrong and you better think about that. Meanwhile in the real world China colonizes Mars, India becomes a world power, and Russia annexes half of eastern Europe as we argue how many hairs on the head of a true Prophet. Shoot me now.

280 Sionainn  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 2:13:26pm

re: #278 Killgore Trout

It may come to that, it certainly would avoid a lot of difficulties and it’s a model that has worked in plenty of other countries. If Hobby Lobby wins we are at least looking at a legal tweak to Obamacare so it passes Constitutional muster.

Obamacare has already passed Constitutional muster.

281 palmerskiss  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 2:13:29pm

re: #278 Killgore Trout

It may come to that, it certainly would avoid a lot of difficulties and it’s a model that has worked in plenty of other countries. If Hobby Lobby wins we are at least looking at a legal tweak to Obamacare so it passes Constitutional muster.

it already passes constitutional muster - or did you miss the entire year of our lord 2012?

282 Killgore Trout  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 2:15:38pm

re: #281 palmerskiss

it already passes constitutional muster - or did you miss the entire year of our lord 2012?

It seems there is some debate about the contraception mandate and the exemptions for non profits. You may have heard about it in the news, there’s a big court case going on.

283 HappyWarrior  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 2:15:51pm

re: #279 nines09

Hope you don’t eat shellfish. That’s a sin. I’m Jewish and if you eat bacon I can’t hire you. I’m Muslim and you will have to cover your hair. I’m Rastafarian and you cannot eat meat. I’m fucking nuts but I have power because I believe in god. I cannot hire you if you are black. My bible says you are lesser. Women cannot drive, it’s against divine principal. My god thinks your god wrong and you better think about that. Meanwhile in the real world China colonizes Mars, India becomes a world power, and Russia annexes half of eastern Europe as we argue how many hairs on the head of a true Prophet. Shoot me now.

Seriously, all this “But my religion forbids it” is rooted in selective bs. Oh? I can’t serve you because my religion condemns homosexuality. Yet those same businesses would never turn away divorcees who have remarried. If you want to be a business in the public sphere, frankly don’t use your religion as a crutch for discriminatory practices and cry victim when you get called out for it.

284 Targetpractice  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 2:17:49pm

re: #275 Pie-onist Overlord

Oh, look who just popped up on Teh TCOT
Our old friend

[Embedded content]

“Free”? Inez, honey, employee health insurance isn’t “free” to begin with. Your boss is not providing it out of the kindness of his heart, it’s part of your compensation and is given to you in lieu of higher wages. And your employer doesn’t cover every cost, just his part of the “contribution.” You still have to pay part of the premium, alongside the co-pays, deductibles, and every little bill along the way. “Free,” my ass.

285 palmerskiss  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 2:18:56pm

re: #282 Killgore Trout

It seems there is some debate about the contraception mandate and the exemptions for non profits. You may have heard about it in the news, there’s a big court case going on.

indeed - that does not make your point - that obamacare does not pass constitutional muster….

the claim you are attempting to make is that this challenge to obamacare suggests it does not pass constitutional muster - however - that is merely a claim -

286 HappyWarrior  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 2:19:26pm

re: #284 Targetpractice

“Free”? Inez, honey, employee health insurance isn’t “free” to begin with. Your boss is not providing it out of the kindness of his heart, it’s part of your compensation and is given to you in lieu of higher wages. And your employer doesn’t cover every cost, just his part of the “contribution.” You still have to pay part of the premium, alongside the co-pays, deductibles, and every little bill along the way. “Free,” my ass.

Nailed it.

287 gwangung  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 2:21:25pm

re: #284 Targetpractice

“Free”? Inez, honey, employee health insurance isn’t “free” to begin with. Your boss is not providing it out of the kindness of his heart, it’s part of your compensation and is given to you in lieu of higher wages. And your employer doesn’t cover every cost, just his part of the “contribution.” You still have to pay part of the premium, alongside the co-pays, deductibles, and every little bill along the way. “Free,” my ass.

In essence, pitting the corporation’s “religious beliefs” (for which they have not and CANNOT be baptized for) vs. the employees’ right to choose their medical treatment. Rights are in conflict—-but the employees’ rights somehow get conveniently forgotten.

288 Amory Blaine  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 2:29:09pm

In Milwaukee fully 25% of all private property is exempt from property taxes mostly due to religious exemptions.

289 thedopefishlives  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 2:29:33pm

Afternoon Lizardim.

290 Cardio (formerly JRCMYP)  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 2:33:45pm

re: #31 Kragar

[Embedded content]

I now have a big crush on Kragar. <3

291 Varek Raith  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 2:34:14pm

re: #282 Killgore Trout

It seems there is some debate about the contraception mandate and the exemptions for non profits. You may have heard about it in the news, there’s a big court case going on.

The debate is whether an abstract construct has rights just like people do.

292 dog philosopher  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 2:35:09pm

we seem to be getting closer to the day when only corporations are citizens with civil rights guaranteed by the constitution

293 Sionainn  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 2:35:50pm

re: #288 Amory Blaine

In Milwaukee fully 25% of all private property is exempt from property taxes mostly due to religious exemptions.

Wow! How does that work? Is it all church-owned property?

294 ObserverArt  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 2:37:20pm

re: #252 EPR-radar

That will never happen. The wealthy have always had access to abortion, and always will, unless the US hard right wins a political victory so total that they really do take us back to 1000 AD and break the power of the US oligarchy.

I’n no fan of this oligarchy, but this particular cure would be much worse than the disease.

That bold part of your comment can not be stated enough.

295 Amory Blaine  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 2:37:50pm

WISN 12 News Investigates: Loophole for religious groups costing taxpayers

A WISN 12 News investigation exposes tax exemptions claimed by some religious organizations that raise questions of good faith. WISN 12 News investigative reporter Colleen Henry reveals the cost to taxpayers.

296 iossarian  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 2:37:58pm

re: #292 dog philosopher

we seem to be getting closer to the day when only corporations are citizens with civil rights guaranteed by the constitution

Frickin’ lawyers. If only they’d said: “OK, we need to figure out what things a corporation can and can’t do” in the first place.

Instead it was all - “Oh yeah, corporations *are* sort of like people now that you mention it. Let’s break for cocktails.”

297 palmerskiss  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 2:39:17pm

re: #296 iossarian

Frickin’ lawyers. If only they’d said: “OK, we need to figure out what things a corporation can and can’t do” in the first place.

Instead it was all - “Oh yeah, corporations *are* sort of like people now that you mention it. Let’s break for cocktails.”

if corporations are people - then i can call the police and have telemarketers arrested for breaking and entering home invasions?

298 Sionainn  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 2:40:48pm

re: #295 Amory Blaine

WISN 12 News Investigates: Loophole for religious groups costing taxpayers

But WISN 12 News found that that rule is not vigorously enforced.

“So this is basically the honor system?” Henry asked of the Assessors Office.

“Well, it’s a little bit of the honor system, I guess,” Reavey said.

Because religious folks never lie. /facepalm

299 Kragar  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 2:40:53pm
300 Kragar  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 2:41:25pm

re: #290 Cardio (formerly JRCMYP)

I now have a big crush on Kragar. <3

Well, I am immense and immortal

301 Sionainn  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 2:41:54pm

re: #299 Kragar

LOL!

302 palmerskiss  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 2:42:13pm

re: #299 Kragar

[Embedded content]

stands on a stool……………. i smite you for willful ignorance…..and for misusing the term ‘black irish’

303 Floral Giraffe  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 2:42:24pm

re: #251 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Too funny! And her knickers are in a twist!

304 palmerskiss  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 2:43:49pm

to all my fellow bostonians (especially those on the southshore) its gonna be a windy wet snowy night and morning…. best of luck to all of us..

305 Mike Lamb  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 2:44:14pm

re: #290 Cardio (formerly JRCMYP)

I now have a big crush on Kragar. <3

Kragar is no doubt a swell person, but this is some extremely low hanging fruit here.

306 Floral Giraffe  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 2:44:31pm

re: #300 Kragar

Well, I am immense and immortal

And cute!

307 Varek Raith  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 2:44:43pm

re: #305 Mike Lamb

Kragar is no doubt a swell person, but this is some extremely low hanging fruit here.

That’s what she said!

308 EPR-radar  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 2:45:09pm

re: #297 palmerskiss

if corporations are people - then i can call the police and have telemarketers arrested for breaking and entering home invasions?

I’ll believe corporations are people when a corporation in TX gets executed. Bonus points if the corporation is innocent.

309 ObserverArt  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 2:45:21pm

If I had a big ass company, I’d make sure to find out that no Republicans ever get hired. My sensibilities tell me they are a danger to this country and its people and they should never be trusted! My political beliefs are an extension of my religion and the Franciscan priests and nuns I studied under in Catholic school taught me many things the Republicans stand for these days are not in line with my religion. No jobs for you!

///+///

310 Kragar  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 2:45:41pm

re: #305 Mike Lamb

Kragar is no doubt a swell person, but this is some extremely low hanging fruit here.

Youtube Video

311 Eventual Carrion  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 2:45:53pm

re: #41 jaunte

[Embedded content]

I lived up Westheimer past Dairy-Ashford in 80’s. Used to go down to Montrose to look around and catch something to eat. Nice area. Even gay hating conservative religious people would go there to the shops on way to the Galleria.

312 palmerskiss  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 2:46:01pm

re: #308 EPR-radar

I’ll believe corporations people when a corporation in TX gets executed. Bonus points if the corporation is innocent.

:D yes!!

313 dog philosopher  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 2:46:32pm

re: #268 HappyWarrior

Libertarianism honestly at its core is rooted in the same kind of fantasies that Marxists believe Only instead of blind faith in the government, they have blind faith in the market.

i would quibble with this in that according to marxist theory, after a nation had really achieved communism - something the soviet union never claimed to have done - at that point everybody there would achieve communist consciousness, and there would be a “withering away of the state” since the people would then act idealistically and correctly without need for the intervention of the state

the leaders of the soviet union always said that they hoped to be able to achieve communism someday - in the meantime, they were “building” it

then there is classic socialism, that is, a form of government where the state owns and operates all major industries, according to most dictionaries. except that the socialist theory was that the workers, represented by the worker’s state, would own the factories etc.

except that in practice in the soviet union the state didn’t really represent the workers

so, marxist theory does not include blind faith in the government as part of its theory or practice - only the naive belief that after a socialist revolution, the workers would operate a worker’s government that would act in the worker’s interest

p.s., the actual dictionary definition of socialism is not the same as the republican definition of socialism, which describes any government that collects taxes and then “redistributes” the money for projects aimed at the common good, unless that project is the armed forces

314 Amory Blaine  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 2:47:33pm

re: #298 Sionainn

I was surprised to hear about the 25% thing, sounds high but it looks like it’s been this way for a long time. Here’s a Marquette University paper from 1970 using the same 25% tax exemption number.

315 Amory Blaine  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 2:49:25pm

I guess some things are sacred.

316 Kragar  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 2:49:36pm
317 palmerskiss  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 2:50:04pm

off topic - i wrote less pages today you guys, better than before? i think i was doing too many and i dont want to give the impression that i think “i own all your bases”

curious had pointed out that it was hard to keep up so i am trying to mediate a bit…

318 palmerskiss  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 2:50:39pm

re: #316 Kragar

[Embedded content]

a three year period? god spare us all… that is just unfair!!

319 palmerskiss  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 2:51:19pm

re: #316 Kragar

[Embedded content]

someone should tell him if you have a three year period you dont need contraception..

320 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 2:53:08pm
321 Kragar  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 2:53:20pm

re: #319 palmerskiss

someone should tell him if you have a three year period you dont need contraception..

And if you’re a guy using $3k in condoms, I’m not even mad. Hell, I’d be impressed.

322 Iwouldprefernotto  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 2:54:38pm

re: #321 Kragar

And if you’re a guy using $3k in condoms, I’m not even mad. Hell, I’d be impressed.

If he really was having that much sex he wouldn’t be complaining.

323 palmerskiss  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 2:54:44pm

re: #321 Kragar

And if you’re a guy using $3k in condoms, I’m not even mad. Hell, I’d be impressed.

swarovski crystals :D sounds….. simultaneously terrifying and intriguing lmao

324 thedopefishlives  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 2:55:53pm

re: #321 Kragar

And if you’re a guy using $3k in condoms, I’m not even mad. Hell, I’d be impressed.

A quick wild-ass guesstimate puts that at about 3 times a day, every single day, for 3 years, excluding “that time of the month”. I’d be more than impressed, I’d worship that guy as a god.

325 Sionainn  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 2:56:28pm

re: #316 Kragar

What a moron!

326 CuriousLurker  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 2:57:14pm

re: #316 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Gawd. Do these asshats not realize that with most forms of birth control how much sex a woman has has nothing whatsoever to do with the amount of BC she needs? Apparently, they don’t. The stupid, it burns.

327 palmerskiss  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 2:57:23pm

re: #324 thedopefishlives

A quick wild-ass guesstimate puts that at about 3 times a day, every single day, for 3 years, excluding “that time of the month”. I’d be more than impressed, I’d worship that guy as a god.

he didnt exclude it - it was a 3 year period, apparently :D

328 Kragar  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 2:58:07pm

re: #324 thedopefishlives

A quick wild-ass guesstimate puts that at about 3 times a day, every single day, for 3 years, excluding “that time of the month”. I’d be more than impressed, I’d worship that guy as a god.

Well, you’ve got to think maybe some are “exotic” condoms, so they’ll cost more, but still…

Youtube Video

329 Varek Raith  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 2:58:10pm

re: #326 CuriousLurker

Gawd. Do these asshats not realize that with most forms of birth control how much sex a woman has has nothing whatsoever to do with the amount of BC she needs? Apparently, they don’t. The stupid, it burns.

Nope.

330 RealityBasedSteve  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 2:58:18pm

re: #197 Shiplord Kirel

Too bad about Hobby Lobby being run by whackos.

With their 40% off any item coupon I got a terrific deal on the Monogram 1/48th scale B-29 model kit, just $32.50 for this huge (3” wingspan) and beautifully detailed kit.

Oh well, priorities, priorities……..

I know…. I’ve switched suppliers for the super-glue I use to finish my pens with, had been getting it at Hobby Lobby. Took me a while testing different brands to find one that worked right for me, but it was worth the effort. And I believe that it was Pieonista-Overlord that sort of ‘shamed’ me into doing the right thing.

RBS

331 Killgore Trout  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 2:59:05pm

re: #320 NJDhockeyfan

[Embedded content]

Probably just storage fees for the documents proving that Romney didn’t pay taxes.

332 CuriousLurker  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 2:59:42pm

re: #317 palmerskiss

off topic - i wrote less pages today you guys, better than before? i think i was doing too many and i dont want to give the impression that i think “i own all your bases”

curious had pointed out that it was hard to keep up so i am trying to mediate a bit…

You’re doing great—don’t stop, just be patient with us old folks who have trouble keeping up.

333 Kragar  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 2:59:47pm
334 Targetpractice  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 3:00:10pm

re: #326 CuriousLurker

Gawd. Do these asshats not realize that with most forms of birth control how much sex a woman has has nothing whatsoever to do with the amount of BC she uses? Apparently, they don’t. The stupid, it burns.

Nine times outta ten, the morons saying such shit are guys whose thought process goes “Contraception = condom,” with no higher reasoning involved. In their minds, if a woman says that birth control costs $3000 over 3 years, then in their minds, that means she’s spending a shitload on condoms. Or, for the truly stupid, assume that she’s popping a pill every time she has sex.

335 palmerskiss  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 3:00:55pm

re: #333 Kragar

[Embedded content]

lol that is gold…pure gold

336 Amory Blaine  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 3:01:25pm

Damnit Facebook bought Oculus!!

Youtube Video

337 thedopefishlives  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 3:02:00pm

re: #334 Targetpractice

Nine times outta ten, the morons saying such shit are guys whose thought process goes “Contraception = condom,” with no higher reasoning involved. In their minds, if a woman says that birth control costs $3000 over 3 years, then in their minds, that means she’s spending a shitload on condoms. Or, for the truly stupid, assume that she’s popping a pill every time she has sex.

It’s just an easy, cheap, and vaguely plausible way for guys to slut-shame women in general, because Jesus. *sigh* As was stated upthread, the stupid, it burns.

338 palmerskiss  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 3:02:25pm

re: #332 CuriousLurker

You’re doing great—don’t stop, just be patient with us old folks who have trouble keeping up.

so much news and info to parse, and i am a total information whore..

339 EPR-radar  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 3:03:25pm

re: #292 dog philosopher

we seem to be getting closer to the day when only corporations are citizens with civil rights guaranteed by the constitution

Too true. If we’re going to bring religious freedom into the workplace, why is it that only the employer is getting any rights out of the deal, according to the right wing nut jobs?

340 wrenchwench  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 3:03:31pm
341 ObserverArt  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 3:04:46pm

re: #333 Kragar

[Embedded content]Teresa @BlackIrishI
@Kragar_LGF @QuiteDirect I actually thought you might be reasonable, but as I have come to see,you are a low life bigot sexist pig
.

Ahhh…there is the good little Catholic Christian Girl coming out now. You finally got to her real heart and past the mask.

342 Whack-A-Mole  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 3:04:54pm

re: #295 Amory Blaine

Welfare for homeless or starving people? Hell no!
Welfare for corporations or churches? It’s their right!
//

343 RealityBasedSteve  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 3:05:10pm

re: #321 Kragar

And if you’re a guy using $3k in condoms, I’m not even mad. Hell, I’d be impressed.

Hell, that’s just wasteful…

Not JUST for bike tires….

Reminds me of the old joke about the Scottish Sergeant who goes to the apothecary shop… but you’ve all heard it I’m sure…

RBS

344 darthstar  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 3:05:17pm
345 CuriousLurker  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 3:05:26pm

Damn, forgot to take out the trash. BBL

346 Kragar  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 3:05:56pm

re: #341 ObserverArt

Ahhh…there is the good little Catholic Christian Girl coming out now. You finally got to her real heart and past the mask.

I knew she had it in her.

PHRASING! BOOM!

347 Aqua Obama  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 3:06:09pm

re: #336 Amory Blaine

Damnit Facebook bought Oculus!!

[Embedded content]

Gaming forums are going mental right now

348 wrenchwench  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 3:06:12pm

re: #345 CuriousLurker

Damn, forgot to take out the trash. BBL

Is that a subtweet subcomment?

349 Varek Raith  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 3:06:15pm

re: #345 CuriousLurker

Damn, forgot to take out the trash. BBL

SNOWPOCALYPSE!

350 EPR-radar  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 3:07:11pm

re: #338 palmerskiss

so much news and info to parse, and i am a total information whore..

For now, the Reader’s Digest condensed version of US politics is pretty much this: The GOP is evil and the Democrats are problematic precisely to the extent they compromise with the evil of the GOP.

It is newsworthy when events depart from this pattern.

351 thedopefishlives  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 3:07:27pm

re: #349 Varek Raith

SNOWPOCALYPSE!

Gesundheit.

352 CuriousLurker  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 3:07:43pm

re: #348 wrenchwench

Is that a subtweet subcomment?

LOL, no, I really did forget to take it out. Ick.

353 Kragar  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 3:07:58pm

re: #349 Varek Raith

SNOWPOCALYPSE!

SHARKZZARD!

354 Targetpractice  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 3:09:15pm

So yeah, just checked local news for some info about the shooting at Norfolk. Tuned in in time for the last few seconds of the press conference held early by the Navy and got to hear one of the stupidest questions I’ve heard from the press in at least a couple days. The fellow at the podium was laying out the series of events, including that the gun used to do the shooting was wrestled away from an MP.

And the first question asked by a reporter (paraphased) “The sailor the gun was taken from, man or woman?”

355 darthstar  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 3:09:47pm
356 JustMark  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 3:11:01pm

re: #148 FemNaziBitch

[Embedded image]

Biology NOT Theology!

357 Varek Raith  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 3:11:18pm

re: #353 Kragar

SHARKZZARD!

Sounds like a pokemon.

358 palmerskiss  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 3:13:08pm

re: #355 darthstar

[Embedded content]

obviously - swallowing all the bullshit was going to have health repercussions…

359 darthstar  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 3:14:27pm

re: #358 palmerskiss

obviously - swallowing all the bullshit was going to have health repercussions…

And most of those states rejected Obamacare as well.

360 thedopefishlives  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 3:14:28pm

re: #358 palmerskiss

obviously - swallowing all the bullshit was going to have health repercussions…

*snort*

Dammit, you owe me a new keyboard for that one.

361 RealityBasedSteve  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 3:15:49pm

re: #358 palmerskiss

obviously - swallowing all the bullshit was going to have health repercussions…

Ladies and Gentlemen, you can stop calling in…we have a winner!!!!

RBS

362 EPR-radar  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 3:16:29pm

re: #358 palmerskiss

obviously - swallowing all the bullshit was going to have health repercussions…

I wonder what wingnuts would do if one of their thought leaders (e.g., Limbaugh) were to note that Obama and the Democrats oppose coprophagia.

363 Pie-onist Overlord  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 3:18:50pm

re: #284 Targetpractice

“Free”? Inez, honey, employee health insurance isn’t “free” to begin with. Your boss is not providing it out of the kindness of his heart, it’s part of your compensation and is given to you in lieu of higher wages. And your employer doesn’t cover every cost, just his part of the “contribution.” You still have to pay part of the premium, alongside the co-pays, deductibles, and every little bill along the way. “Free,” my ass.

Inez is an unpaid intern (or at least she was at this time last year when we were mocking her) so minimum wage would be a step up for her.

364 RadicalModerate  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 3:20:09pm

re: #320 NJDhockeyfan

[Embedded content]

From the description given in the article, it appears that Reid wasn’t giving gifts to his granddaughter, but used the money to purchase “holiday gifts” - from her jewelry company. His description needs to simply be amended to detail a more accurate description for what the money was used for.

Relevant section of article below:

FEC rules ban gifts to family members using campaign funds, but in this case Reid’s granddaughter was acting as a vendor of jewelry — which would be permitted.

According to FEC rules, payments on campaign finance reports must conform to certain standard that make the purpose of the payment clear. According to the commission, “holiday gifts” does not conform to the FEC’s rules. Reid has until mid-April to amend his year-end reports to include additional information — or face fines or other administration action.

According to several websites, Ryan Elisabeth was the name of a jewelry line created by Ryan Elisabeth Reid. Ryan Reid is the daughter of Rory Reid and granddaughter of the Senate majority leader.

Read more: politico.com

365 Pie-onist Overlord  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 3:22:48pm

re: #334 Targetpractice

Nine times outta ten, the morons saying such shit are guys whose thought process goes “Contraception = condom,” with no higher reasoning involved. In their minds, if a woman says that birth control costs $3000 over 3 years, then in their minds, that means she’s spending a shitload on condoms. Or, for the truly stupid, assume that she’s popping a pill every time she has sex.

Where does this $3000 number even come from? Is that how much Rush spends on viagra? Because this idiotic meme started with him.

366 dog philosopher  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 3:23:24pm

re: #358 palmerskiss

obviously - swallowing all the bullshit was going to have health repercussions…

but they told me it tastes like ice cream!!!

367 palomino  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 3:40:32pm

re: #364 RadicalModerate

He’s just trolling, probably didn’t even read or understand the article. Thinks he’s found something outrageous on Reid, who he hates.

368 palmerskiss  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 3:51:17pm

re: #366 dog philosopher

but they told me it tastes like ice cream!!!

praline is as praline does…..

369 makeitstop  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 4:08:28pm

re: #367 palomino

He’s just trolling, probably didn’t even read or understand the article. Thinks he’s found something outrageous on Reid, who he hates.

I fully expect every one of my Facebook wingnuts to post that story tomorrow as evidence of…something.

I don’t even respond to them any more. All they do is post irrelevant shit and act all smug like they’re like they’re actually making a point. They and their bottomless pit of rage just bores the crap out of me.

370 JustMark  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 4:33:29pm

re: #299 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Cheech?

371 Romantic Heretic  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 4:47:14pm

re: #296 iossarian

Frickin’ lawyers. If only they’d said: “OK, we need to figure out what things a corporation can and can’t do” in the first place.

Instead it was all - “Oh yeah, corporations *are* sort of like people now that you mention it. Let’s break for cocktails.”

I’ll accept them as people when one of them throws themselves on a grenade to save his buddies.

372 Romantic Heretic  Tue, Mar 25, 2014 4:51:15pm

re: #316 Kragar

[Embedded content]

I was about to say something along the lines of The Stupid! It burns!.

Then I recalled that was a parody account and calmed down.

373 The Awkward Guy  Wed, Mar 26, 2014 5:04:02am
Minus: 1
Dark_Falcon

Defend the indefensible much?

374 Jay in Oregon  Wed, Mar 26, 2014 5:38:52am

re: #372 Romantic Heretic

I was about to say something along the lines of The Stupid! It burns!.

Then I recalled that was a parody account and calmed down.

I hate to break it to you but according to the Twitter profile, “All text was found on the forums of FreeRepublic: The Premier Conservative Site on the Net.”

These assholes are impossible to parody anymore.


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