Interview With #CancelColbert Activist Suey Park: Put a Bird on It

Rabid tone-policer says: “I reject being tone-policed”
Weird • Views: 20,891

Ladies and gentlemen, the political genius of 23-year old Suey Park: #CancelColbert Activist Suey Park: “This Is Not Reform, This Is Revolution”.

What is the best way to work with white people, to get them on our side?

I don’t want them on our side.

You don’t want them on your side.

This is not reform, this is revolution.

So what do you want to see happen in your revolution?

I mean, it’s already happening I think. The revolution will not be an apocalypse, it’s gonna be a series of shifts in consciousness that result in actions that come about, and I think that like, at this point is really like, ride or die, in terms who’s in and who is out. I don’t play by appeasement politics, it is not about getting my oppressors to humanize me. And in that sense I reject the respectability politics, I reject being tone-policed, I think we need to do away with this idea that these structures are … that the prisons can undergo reform and somehow do less violence as a structure. But any example like that.

Wait, can you ask that question again, I got distracted real quick, there was a bird outside my window.

Before you haters start laughing, I’d just like to point out that Che Guevara was also easily distracted by cute birds.

OK, maybe not.

Jump to bottom

589 comments
1 Charles Johnson  Apr 3, 2014 10:12:33am
2 Targetpractice  Apr 3, 2014 10:14:31am

*toketoketokecough*

Nope, sorry, still doesn’t make any sense.

3 Charles Johnson  Apr 3, 2014 10:15:00am

IT’S RIDE OR DIE

4 Chrysicat  Apr 3, 2014 10:15:10am

Repost as I once again posted to a closing thread…

5 Varek Raith  Apr 3, 2014 10:15:49am

*Scratches head in confusion*

6 Kragar  Apr 3, 2014 10:16:31am

Sounds like a racist little twit.

7 Pie-onist Overlord  Apr 3, 2014 10:16:35am

This lame little attention queen has had her 15 minutes. Let’s move on.

8 garzooma  Apr 3, 2014 10:17:17am

“Nailed it! And people told me not to get high before an interview.”

9 Amory Blaine  Apr 3, 2014 10:17:49am

I like birds.

10 Charles Johnson  Apr 3, 2014 10:18:52am
11 Killgore Trout  Apr 3, 2014 10:19:46am

“White ally industrial complex”? Micro-aggression? “Whiteness at large”? “Comparative social location”?
It’s like a progressive thesaurus exploded in her brain

12 Varek Raith  Apr 3, 2014 10:20:52am

She clearly graduated from the Sarah Palin School of Word Salad.

13 FemNaziBitch  Apr 3, 2014 10:21:05am

I think she had a sort of awakening.

Hopefully, time and maturity will temper her passion and she’ll be able to contribute in a positive way.

14 Varek Raith  Apr 3, 2014 10:21:37am

re: #11 Killgore Trout

“White ally industrial complex”? Micro-aggression? “Whiteness at large”? “Comparative social location”?
It’s like a progressive thesaurus exploded in her brain

I don’t know what those even mean.
XD

15 Dr. Matt  Apr 3, 2014 10:23:05am
Did you watch the Monday night segment on the “Colbert Report”?

No, and I think that’s an irrelevant question.

A combination of willful ignorance and immaturity.

16 Charles Johnson  Apr 3, 2014 10:23:22am

I think I just got called a white supremacist for laughing at Suey Park.

17 makeitstop  Apr 3, 2014 10:24:07am

re: #12 Varek Raith

She clearly graduated from the Sarah Palin School of Word Salad.

No kidding. A nickel for every new-age buzzword in that interview would pretty much buy me a triple mocha latte with Satanic decorations.

Suey is tiresome. But she’s young, maybe she’ll get over herself someday.

18 Targetpractice  Apr 3, 2014 10:24:18am

Does it say something about how old I am when I read this and my first thought is “Kids these days!”?

19 Lidane  Apr 3, 2014 10:24:45am

re: #12 Varek Raith

She clearly graduated from the Sarah Palin School of Word Salad.

With honors.

Forget what I said in the last thread. THIS is total bullshit. The insurance scam webinar made more sense than this garbage.

20 Varek Raith  Apr 3, 2014 10:25:04am

Hey Suey?

What about the Native Americans? That’s what this is all about. You know, before you hijacked it.

21 Dr. Matt  Apr 3, 2014 10:25:16am

Am I the only one that finds her indistinguishable from Malkin/Coulter?

22 Charles Johnson  Apr 3, 2014 10:25:54am

re: #21 Dr. Matt

Am I the only one that finds her indistinguishable from Malkin/Coulter?

She’s actually friends with Michelle Malkin, believe it or not.

23 Dr. Matt  Apr 3, 2014 10:26:23am

re: #22 Charles Johnson

She’s actually friends with Michelle Malkin, believe it or not.

‘Nuff said.

24 Varek Raith  Apr 3, 2014 10:26:25am

re: #21 Dr. Matt

Am I the only one that finds her indistinguishable from Malkin/Coulter?

I dunno, I can usually find a hint of a semblance of a fraction of a point with those two.
/

25 Killgore Trout  Apr 3, 2014 10:26:41am

re: #14 Varek Raith

I don’t know what those even mean.
XD

It’s really difficult to wade through and really understand where she’s coming from, the buzzwords and catch phrases don’t help. If you strip out all the “issue framing” and overuse of trendy clichés, her base view is unfortunately not that unpopular. There’s been some awakening lately about the politics and manipulation of the constant outrages and discussions on progressives, leftists, liberals and tolerance. I do hope to see a change in popular attitudes but I’m not optimistic.

26 Varek Raith  Apr 3, 2014 10:27:02am

re: #22 Charles Johnson

She’s actually friends with Michelle Malkin, believe it or not.

Wait.
Michelle “In Defense of Internment” Malkin?

Oy.

27 Targetpractice  Apr 3, 2014 10:27:22am

re: #26 Varek Raith

Wait.
Michelle “In Defense of Internment” Malkin?

Oy.

I picked the wrong week to quit drinking.

28 Pie-onist Overlord  Apr 3, 2014 10:28:15am

“Prosperity” sockpuppet. Kochs have as many of these on Twitter as they have Teh Moneys.

29 Varek Raith  Apr 3, 2014 10:28:16am

Yeah, now I’m even more confused.
DRINK!

30 Killgore Trout  Apr 3, 2014 10:29:00am

re: #20 Varek Raith

Hey Suey?

What about the Native Americans? That’s what this is all about. You know, before you hijacked it.

The hypocrisy seems to be at the core of her outlook. She’s always going to see it differently if she hijacks a native American issue as opposed to a white person hijacking a black issue. It’s always going to be different when she does it.

31 Varek Raith  Apr 3, 2014 10:29:49am

re: #30 Killgore Trout

The hypocrisy seems to be at the core of her outlook. She’s always going to see it differently if she hijacks a native American issue as opposed to a white person hijacking a black issue. It’s always going to be different when she does it.

Most irritating.

32 Feline Fearless Leader  Apr 3, 2014 10:29:50am

re: #25 Killgore Trout

It’s really difficult to wade through and really understand where she’s coming from, the buzzwords and catch phrases don’t help. If you strip out all the “issue framing” and overuse of trendy clichés, her base view is unfortunately not that unpopular. There’s been some awakening lately about the politics and manipulation of the constant outrages and discussions on progressives, leftists, liberals and tolerance. I do hope to see a change in popular attitudes but I’m not optimistic.

A sea change in popular attitudes would be the switch from Bieber to some other “new” pop star, a different set of five foods to avoid to burn fat, another old trick that housewives use to get 90% off their automobile insurance, and Budweiser actually coming up with a new beer brand worth drinking.
////

33 TedStriker  Apr 3, 2014 10:32:13am

re: #12 Varek Raith

She clearly graduated from the Sarah Palin School of Word Salad.

IIRC, she’s tight with Malkin.

Edit: Charles beat me to it.

34 Pie-onist Overlord  Apr 3, 2014 10:32:18am

Crooks & Liars had a response to the Koch “I’M A VICTIM!!!!!” op-ed in WSJ, unfortunately it descended into exactly the “collectivist name-calling” that Koch was whining about.

35 b.d.  Apr 3, 2014 10:32:57am

Help! Help! I’m being repressed!

36 Lidane  Apr 3, 2014 10:34:01am
The revolution will not be an apocalypse, it’s gonna be a series of shifts in consciousness that result in actions that come about, and I think that like, at this point is really like, ride or die, in terms who’s in and who is out.

This sounds like some Deepak Chopra bullshit by way of Easy Rider.

It’s gibberish like this that makes me miss Hunter S. Thompson. He would have had a field day with all this crap.

37 Kragar  Apr 3, 2014 10:34:21am

re: #22 Charles Johnson

She’s actually friends with Michelle Malkin, believe it or not.

So I could have just ignored this bullshit from the very start and no one told me?

Thanks.

38 Dr Lizardo  Apr 3, 2014 10:34:45am

Because of my OPPRESSIVE WHITENESS! I was certainly left scratching my head as to what exactly she’s getting at. Well, aside from her being distracted by a bird.

The only time my “whiteness” has ever been called “oppressive” was after a long winter with no sun, and that was by a young lady I was living with in Portland, OR back in the 90s.

39 b.d.  Apr 3, 2014 10:34:51am

What kind of bird?

40 Varek Raith  Apr 3, 2014 10:36:16am

re: #34 Pie-onist Overlord

Crooks & Liars had a response to the Koch “I’M A VICTIM!!!!!” op-ed in WSJ, unfortunately it descended into exactly the “collectivist name-calling” that Koch was whining about.

They occasionally have decent articles. The comments are…mostly shit.

41 Pie-onist Overlord  Apr 3, 2014 10:36:28am

I collect bird tchotchkas.

42 Amory Blaine  Apr 3, 2014 10:36:46am

Twitchy bird.

43 b.d.  Apr 3, 2014 10:36:51am

Little known fact: The Tone Police are armed with tuning forks rather than with stun guns.

TRUE FACT

44 Bulworth  Apr 3, 2014 10:37:40am

re: #34 Pie-onist Overlord

Sigh. One of my favorite hotspots back in the day.

45 Pie-onist Overlord  Apr 3, 2014 10:38:53am

re: #40 Varek Raith

They occasional have decent articles. The comments are…mostly shit.

The comments everywhere are mostly shit, except for here.

46 Pie-onist Overlord  Apr 3, 2014 10:39:25am

re: #44 Bulworth

Sigh. One of my favorite hotspots back in the day.

Sigh. I used to hang out at Freep.

47 Varek Raith  Apr 3, 2014 10:40:02am

re: #46 Pie-onist Overlord

Sigh. I used to hang out at Freep.

Malkin’s site for me.
Good grief.

48 Pie-onist Overlord  Apr 3, 2014 10:41:59am

People are Tweeting this Photoshop. It would totally rock, EXCEPT it is not a current photo of SCOTUS.

49 sauceruney  Apr 3, 2014 10:42:44am

She shouldn’t dignify her oppressors by speaking to us in English.

50 gwangung  Apr 3, 2014 10:43:07am

I don’t think anyone has covered themselves in glory in this discussion. There’s been some real problematic posts and tweets that attacked Park on irrelevant grounds that were out and out racist and sexist. There’s also been some flamage and salvoes directed at folks who’ve been activists (meaning actually getting some social change done) for years and years and whose stand on the issues shouldn’t have been questioned.

aranamama.com

51 Kragar  Apr 3, 2014 10:44:10am

a spokesman for Breitbart News, Kurt Bardella, called Mother Jones and said that Dollard “was not a paid contributor and has not contributed for three years. He should not call himself a contributor. We have no plans,” Bardella said, “to accept anything. We haven’t ruled anything out. But he is not a Breitbart contributor.”

Dollard is listed as a “contributor” on the Breitbart website, but as of this moment, most of the material he contributed is not currently available on the site.

52 Decatur Deb  Apr 3, 2014 10:44:45am

re: #49 sauceruney

She shouldn’t dignify her oppressors by speaking to us in English.

If people speak to me in Hangul I get all dysphoric. Terrible experience with a mudang.

53 Amory Blaine  Apr 3, 2014 10:44:57am

Pat Robertson: Buying stuff ‘by computer’ is the ‘Mark of the Beast’

Free shipping is the devils work!! Faust paid for his timely delivered quills with his soul.

54 Pie-onist Overlord  Apr 3, 2014 10:45:47am

CLUE FOR TED CRUZ:
FREE SPEECH IS A RIGHT GUARANTEED IN THE CONSTITUTION
TAX EXEMPT STATUS IS NOT A RIGHT GUARANTEED IN THE CONSTITUTION
MAYBE IT’S DIFFERENT IN CANADA?

55 Kragar  Apr 3, 2014 10:46:49am

re: #53 Amory Blaine

Pat Robertson: Buying stuff ‘by computer’ is the ‘Mark of the Beast’

Free shipping is the devils work!! Faust paid for his timely delivered quills with his soul.

Shopping via computer is the Devil?

So I’ll just leave this here then…

Shop CBN homepage

56 NJDhockeyfan  Apr 3, 2014 10:47:27am
57 Decatur Deb  Apr 3, 2014 10:47:28am

re: #53 Amory Blaine

Pat Robertson: Buying stuff ‘by computer’ is the ‘Mark of the Beast’

Free shipping is the devils work!! Faust paid for his timely delivered quills with his soul.

“Lente, lente currite UPS.”

58 Cardio (formerly JRCMYP)  Apr 3, 2014 10:47:33am

re: #50 gwangung

I don’t think anyone has covered themselves in glory in this discussion. There’s been some real problematic posts and tweets that attacked Park on irrelevant grounds that were out and out racist and sexist. There’s also been some flamage and salvoes directed at folks who’ve been activists (meaning actually getting some social change done) for years and years and whose stand on the issues shouldn’t have been questioned.

aranamama.com

I’m with you on this.

59 FemNaziBitch  Apr 3, 2014 10:47:49am

This situtation has me so confused.

Suey Park = anti white establishment/power etc.

Michelle Malkin = pro-white establishment/power etc.

no?

60 Pie-onist Overlord  Apr 3, 2014 10:48:48am
61 TedStriker  Apr 3, 2014 10:49:01am

re: #59 FemNaziBitch

This situtation has me so confused.

Suey Park = anti white establishment/power etc.

Michelle Malkin = pro-white establishment/power etc.

no?

Intellectual curiosity and integrity has never afflicted morons.

62 Dr. Matt  Apr 3, 2014 10:49:08am

re: #59 FemNaziBitch

This situtation has me so confused.

Suey Park = anti white establishment/power etc.

Michelle Malkin = pro-white establishment/power etc.

no?

Park is so far left that she’s nuzzling up against the right.

63 Varek Raith  Apr 3, 2014 10:49:50am

re: #62 Dr. Matt

Park is so far left that she’s nuzzling up against the right.

Moronic Convergence.

64 Cardio (formerly JRCMYP)  Apr 3, 2014 10:51:25am

She feels like an easy target and I’m a little surprised by the harshness directed at her. And some of the comments here are making me pretty uncomfortable. I’m bowing out.

65 FemNaziBitch  Apr 3, 2014 10:51:25am

As anyone with children knows …

66 kerFuFFler  Apr 3, 2014 10:52:02am

re: #43 b.d.

Little known fact: The Tone Police are armed with tuning forks rather than with stun guns.

TRUE FACT

The higher ranking ones get “pitch” forks.

67 FemNaziBitch  Apr 3, 2014 10:52:19am

re: #64 Cardio (formerly JRCMYP)

She feels like an easy target and I’m a little surprised by the harshness directed at her. And some of the comments here are making me pretty uncomfortable. I’m bowing out.

Yeah, I’m so foggy about this. I didn’t appreciate the Colbert comment when it happened, but now this situation seems like a witch hunt.

Feels like old times at LGF.

68 lawhawk  Apr 3, 2014 10:52:27am

re: #48 Pie-onist Overlord

But let’s not kid ourselves. All justices would have corporate sponsors and the current Court is more predisposed to upholding the corporate rights over those of employees or purchasers/users of their goods/services.

Take yesterday’s decision on frequent flier miles, which Delta (as successor to Northwest) won over a guy who they claimed abused the frequent flier miles program by submitting too many complaints and had his account terminated.

Delta would be on all the justices’ garb - since that was unanimous.

69 Amory Blaine  Apr 3, 2014 10:53:33am

re: #57 Decatur Deb

Check for hooves when the brown-shorted bringers of evil bulk goods arrive below your lintle.

70 Decatur Deb  Apr 3, 2014 10:54:34am

re: #69 Amory Blaine

Check for hooves when the brown-shorted bringers of evil bulk goods arrive at your lintle.

Very fauned of 2-day delivery.

71 wrenchwench  Apr 3, 2014 10:54:35am
72 gwangung  Apr 3, 2014 10:55:58am

re: #67 FemNaziBitch

Yeah, I’m so foggy about this. I didn’t appreciate the Colbert comment when it happened, but now this situation seems like a witch hunt.

I didn’t have a problem with the Colbert segment, and neither did a lot of other Asian American activists. But I don’t have a problem with the passion displayed by Park, even though I disagree on her tactics.

But I do have a problem with folks attacking her with racial and sexist epithets. And I do have a problem with taking the focus off of Native American concerns. And I have problem with people trying to make this into a binary/ good guy-bad guy issue.

Again, some good things here, but a lot of folks haven’t acted in a very laudatory manner.

73 ObserverArt  Apr 3, 2014 10:56:20am

re: #25 Killgore Trout

It’s really difficult to wade through and really understand where she’s coming from, the buzzwords and catch phrases don’t help. If you strip out all the “issue framing” and overuse of trendy clichés, her base view is unfortunately not that unpopular. There’s been some awakening lately about the politics and manipulation of the constant outrages and discussions on progressives, leftists, liberals and tolerance. I do hope to see a change in popular attitudes but I’m not optimistic.

That bit in bold, do you want to explain that? Are you saying there is only constant outrages, etc., from “progressives. leftists, liberals and tolerance?” It sure comes off that way.

74 Testy Toad T  Apr 3, 2014 10:57:28am

The real problem here is Twitter, for so ably facilitating the meteoric rise of such inane puff-puff-pass nonsense.

Guy says stupid, not-that-funny thing, girl says stupid thing based on other stupid thing, everyone yells at everyone, and a few more brain cells in this world shriek and explode.

75 FemNaziBitch  Apr 3, 2014 10:58:39am
However, that’s not the only problem. The NCADV notes that there are 16,800 homicides due to domestic violence annually. Factoring this in, the true cost is $37 billion. Adjusting for inflation, it would be $41.9 billion in 2014. To put that into perspective, that exceeds the gross domestic product of more than half of all nations on Earth.

also Paged

76 FemNaziBitch  Apr 3, 2014 11:00:26am

Bunny Rolls!

made you look, didn’t I?

77 Killgore Trout  Apr 3, 2014 11:00:37am

re: #73 ObserverArt

That bit in bold, do you want to explain that? Are you saying there is only constant outrages, etc., from “progressives. leftists, liberals and tolerance?” It sure comes off that way.

No, if I intend to in indicate only those people I will use the word “only’. To insert the word into my statement changes the meaning of what I said.

78 wrenchwench  Apr 3, 2014 11:00:44am

re: #72 gwangung

I didn’t have a problem with the Colbert segment, and neither did a lot of other Asian American activists. But I don’t have a problem with the passion displayed by Park, even though I disagree on her tactics.

But I do have a problem with folks attacking her with racial and sexist epithets. And I do have a problem with taking the focus off of Native American concerns. And I have problem with people trying to make this into a binary/ good guy-bad guy issue.

Again, some good things here, but a lot of folks haven’t acted in a very laudatory manner.

It’s certainly not a black-and-white situation.

/I’ll see myself out.

79 Amory Blaine  Apr 3, 2014 11:00:47am

Negative externality.

80 lawhawk  Apr 3, 2014 11:00:53am

The Hoft strikes again:

That’s why NYC, which has strict gun control, has a lower per capita homicide rate than many parts of the country where guns are freely available.

And military bases are not gun free zones. They’re strictly controlled because the military experience with firearms has shown that access to firearms on base causes more trouble than any one of the gun-toting chairborne brigades would care to admit especially if there’s an active shooter situation where responding MPs would have a nearly impossible task of trying to differentiate between the good guys and the bad guy shooters.

81 Feline Fearless Leader  Apr 3, 2014 11:01:14am

re: #74 Testy Toad T

The real problem here is Twitter, for so ably facilitating the meteoric rise of such inane puff-puff-pass nonsense.

Guy says stupid, not-that-funny thing, girl says stupid thing based on other stupid thing, everyone yells at everyone, and a few more brain cells in this world shriek and explode.

The only way to win is to not use or access Twitter.

How about a nice game of chess?

82 Amory Blaine  Apr 3, 2014 11:01:26am

re: #76 FemNaziBitch

Aww. Those are so cute.

83 Killgore Trout  Apr 3, 2014 11:02:02am

re: #78 wrenchwench

It’s certainly not a black-and-white situation.

/I’ll see myself out.

Let’s not gore any sacred cows here.
/sorry, Hindus

84 Testy Toad T  Apr 3, 2014 11:02:37am

re: #81 Feline Fearless Leader

The only way to win is to not use or access Twitter.

How about a nice game of chess?

ALREADY ONE STEP AHEAD OF YOU, BOSS.

85 Kragar  Apr 3, 2014 11:02:42am
86 lawhawk  Apr 3, 2014 11:02:55am
87 Romantic Heretic  Apr 3, 2014 11:03:59am

Oh, to be young, stupid and a blathering idiot again.

On second thought I’ll remain what I am; middle aged, attempting to be wise and attempting to say intelligent things concisely as possible.

88 Killgore Trout  Apr 3, 2014 11:04:21am

re: #86 lawhawk

[Embedded content]

I would guess it’s the nearest shop to the base.

89 gwangung  Apr 3, 2014 11:04:33am

re: #78 wrenchwench

It’s certainly not a black-and-white situation.
A pun after my own dark heart…

90 ObserverArt  Apr 3, 2014 11:05:25am

re: #72 gwangung

I didn’t have a problem with the Colbert segment, and neither did a lot of other Asian American activists. But I don’t have a problem with the passion displayed by Park, even though I disagree on her tactics.

But I do have a problem with folks attacking her with racial and sexist epithets. And I do have a problem with taking the focus off of Native American concerns. And I have problem with people trying to make this into a binary/ good guy-bad guy issue.

Again, some good things here, but a lot of folks haven’t acted in a very laudatory manner.

Well, one thing is for sure. She is not helping the issue at all. And it appears she is doing some stereotyping herself. She really needs to find a better way to voice her concerns. This is not working for anyone’s benefit.

91 NJDhockeyfan  Apr 3, 2014 11:05:42am

BIG ALUMINUM CAN BANKS ARE RIPPING US OFF!!

92 gwangung  Apr 3, 2014 11:06:09am

re: #87 Romantic Heretic

Oh, to be young, stupid and a blathering idiot again.

On second thought I’ll remain what I am; middle aged, attempting to be wise and attempting to say intelligent things concisely as possible.

There are those of us who’ve been all of that….

Sigh.

93 lawhawk  Apr 3, 2014 11:06:59am

re: #88 Killgore Trout

Not necessarily.

94 Ryan King  Apr 3, 2014 11:07:01am

The dream Tone police, they live inside of my head

95 Killgore Trout  Apr 3, 2014 11:07:19am

re: #91 NJDhockeyfan

BIG ALUMINUM CAN BANKS ARE RIPPING US OFF!!

[Embedded content]

Is Alan Grayson’s head getting bigger or is his body shrinking?

96 Amory Blaine  Apr 3, 2014 11:07:40am

Bomb throwers blow their outrage all over the place.

97 Decatur Deb  Apr 3, 2014 11:07:47am

re: #88 Killgore Trout

I would guess it’s the nearest shop to the base.

“Easy Credit, E3 and Above”

98 Targetpractice  Apr 3, 2014 11:08:11am

re: #86 lawhawk

[Embedded content]

I’m curious as to how long he had this gun and was carrying it concealed. Is this something that started yesterday or has he been carrying concealed on-base for awhile now and the argument witnesses say preceded the shooting was what set him off?

99 Killgore Trout  Apr 3, 2014 11:09:02am

re: #97 Decatur Deb

“Easy Credit, E3 and Above”

Bargain blowout prices galore!

100 NJDhockeyfan  Apr 3, 2014 11:09:09am

re: #95 Killgore Trout

Is Alan Grayson’s head getting bigger or is his body shrinking?

Yes.

101 sauceruney  Apr 3, 2014 11:09:22am

re: #91 NJDhockeyfan

If you’re drinking beer from aluminum cans, you’re doing it wrong.

102 Dr Lizardo  Apr 3, 2014 11:09:28am

Looks like we have (another) scandal brewing here in the Czech Republic.

The current PM, Sobotka, was previously Finance Minister. He sold OKD, a steel firm, for about 4.1 million Czech crowns. The problem; OKD’s market value is about 3.5 billion Czech crowns.

Sobotka is blaming his deputy, who has been most conveniently dead for the last three years. An investigation is going to be opened as to exactly who Mr. Sobotka (or the dead guy) sold it to.

Sigh…..just what the Czech Republic needs. *facepalm*

103 Killgore Trout  Apr 3, 2014 11:10:20am

re: #97 Decatur Deb

“Easy Credit, E3 and Above”

Going on a fatal shooting spree? Compare prices and shop for the best bargain. Humans are weird creatures.

104 makeitstop  Apr 3, 2014 11:10:38am

re: #67 FemNaziBitch

Yeah, I’m so foggy about this. I didn’t appreciate the Colbert comment when it happened, but now this situation seems like a witch hunt.

Feels like old times at LGF.

I can’t agree.

She’s so intractable in her viewpoint that basically nothing will mollify her. She shows no interest in reaching any kind of common ground with, well, anyone. It’s all about her and how the world is a bunch of big mean (white male) meanies.

She’s drinking from the cup of victimhood, and she finds it delicious. Especially while riding on that high horse. Tiresome.

105 djcelts  Apr 3, 2014 11:10:42am

SQUIRREL!!!!!!

106 Romantic Heretic  Apr 3, 2014 11:10:45am

re: #60 Pie-onist Overlord

Gunter @FoolishReporter
only in a terminally ill society could someone like @suey_park be taken seriously

Angry Asian Woman @suey_park

.@FoolishReporter I always say w****ness is an illness.

I’ll quote an ancient Taoist aphorism at you, Ms. Park.

What you resist, you become.

107 Charles Johnson  Apr 3, 2014 11:10:53am

re: #51 Kragar

Those lying creeps. He’s LISTED as a columnist on their website. In the real world, that would tend to mean he’s a columnist for that website.

108 b.d.  Apr 3, 2014 11:11:02am

Somebody has to own the aluminum supplies. Who do you want to own all of the aluminum Alan?!?!?!

Are we really that out of things to be pissed about?

109 Amory Blaine  Apr 3, 2014 11:11:15am

“Market Parasite” JPMorgan Added To Goldman Aluminum “Cartel” Lawsuit

Financial institutions have intentionally made a mockery of market logic, forcing end-users to keep paying more despite rising global aluminum supplies. As the Times points out, each time you “open a can of soda, beer or juice,” GOLDMAN SACHS gets a cut. Defendants’ invidious conduct created an exclusionary and anticompetitive vertical and horizontal monopolization, with no procompetitive benefits.

By inserting itself into a healthy industry producing widely needed commodities, severely degrading functionality, and widely distributing costs while itself benefiting, GOLDMAN SACHS and JP MORGAN couldn’t fit a more archetypal description of a parasite on the markets. Hoarding in aluminum, however, is just one in a bevy of ever-multiplying non-innovations, demonstrating how the leeching of productive society has emerged as finance’s guiding light, and leeching that antitrust laws are designed to prohibit and make the economic sanctions and repayment to consumers for entering such destructive enterprises too high to pursue.

110 Justanotherhuman  Apr 3, 2014 11:11:37am

I’m pretty tired of listening to mentally ill people online. I’m not talking about people with issues—everyone has issues of one type or another. But this is beyond the fucking pale.

Types like this all need to get some therapy. It’s incredible anyone would listen to these delusional types.

But when you criticize them, they come right back with the old oppression bullshit even when there’s little evidence to support it.

111 jaunte  Apr 3, 2014 11:13:20am

re: #108 b.d.

It’s probably a bad idea to let banks speculate in commodities, if we also have to bail them out when they make a bad bet.

112 ObserverArt  Apr 3, 2014 11:13:45am

re: #77 Killgore Trout

No, if I intend to in indicate only those people I will use the word “only’. To insert the word into my statement changes the meaning of what I said.

See those quotes Killgore. Those would be your statement quoted. The ‘only’ was just a framing of my question. There was no way to ask the question without me using the word only. I did not change your meaning, I was asking for clarification.

I am sure you are aware there is plenty of outrage all over the political spectrum.

113 RealityBasedSteve  Apr 3, 2014 11:14:02am

re: #11 Killgore Trout

“White ally industrial complex”? Micro-aggression? “Whiteness at large”? “Comparative social location”?
It’s like a progressive thesaurus exploded in her brain

This could be the textbook example of how “Poe’s Law” can work both ways.

RBS

114 NJDhockeyfan  Apr 3, 2014 11:14:44am

re: #108 b.d.

Somebody has to own the aluminum supplies. Who do you want to own all of the aluminum Alan?!?!?!

Are we really that out of things to be pissed about?

You know what they say, when you run out of outrages go after the aluminum can lobby!

115 Charles Johnson  Apr 3, 2014 11:14:59am

re: #72 gwangung

I didn’t have a problem with the Colbert segment, and neither did a lot of other Asian American activists. But I don’t have a problem with the passion displayed by Park, even though I disagree on her tactics.

But I do have a problem with folks attacking her with racial and sexist epithets. And I do have a problem with taking the focus off of Native American concerns. And I have problem with people trying to make this into a binary/ good guy-bad guy issue.

Again, some good things here, but a lot of folks haven’t acted in a very laudatory manner.

If she’s going to put herself out in public as an “activist,” I think it’s absolutely fair to criticize her opinions and yes, even to laugh at her if she deserves it. But you should be aware that the vast majority of those racist/sexist epithets directed at her are coming from right wingers, as far as I could tell.

And anyone who engages in that crap at LGF will lose their account.

116 RealityBasedSteve  Apr 3, 2014 11:15:46am

re: #102 Dr Lizardo

Looks like we have (another) scandal brewing here in the Czech Republic.

The current PM, Sobotka, was previously Finance Minister. He sold OKD, a steel firm, for about 4.1 million Czech crowns. The problem; OKD’s market value is about 3.5 >billion Czech crowns.

Sobotka is blaming his deputy, who has been most conveniently dead for the last three years. An investigation is going to be opened as to exactly who Mr. Sobotka (or the dead guy) sold it to.

Sigh…..just what the Czech Republic needs. *facepalm*

That’s even better than blaming it on the “Last Guy Who Left the Organization”.

RBS

117 Amory Blaine  Apr 3, 2014 11:16:01am

re: #114 NJDhockeyfan

Greyson probably jumped on board because the lawsuit is filed in Florida.

JPMorgan Aluminum Lawsuit

<iframe class=”scribd_iframe_embed” src=”//Scribd Document” data-auto-height=”false” data-aspect-ratio=”undefined” scrolling=”no” id=”doc_22115” width=”100%” height=”600” frameborder=”0”></iframe>

118 ObserverArt  Apr 3, 2014 11:16:05am

re: #80 lawhawk

The Hoft strikes again:

[Embedded content]

That’s why NYC, which has strict gun control, has a lower per capita homicide rate than many parts of the country where guns are freely available.

And military bases are not gun free zones. They’re strictly controlled because the military experience with firearms has shown that access to firearms on base causes more trouble than any one of the gun-toting chairborne brigades would care to admit especially if there’s an active shooter situation where responding MPs would have a nearly impossible task of trying to differentiate between the good guys and the bad guy shooters.

This comment goes to what I was trying to get at in the previous thread. Thanks.

119 Charles Johnson  Apr 3, 2014 11:16:57am

re: #67 FemNaziBitch

Yeah, I’m so foggy about this. I didn’t appreciate the Colbert comment when it happened, but now this situation seems like a witch hunt.

Feels like old times at LGF.

A “witch hunt?” Seriously? That’s how you see this thread?

I have to disagree. Suey Park is not exempt from criticism.

120 Mattand  Apr 3, 2014 11:18:27am

re: #115 Charles Johnson

If she’s going to put herself out in public as an “activist,” I think it’s absolutely fair to criticize her opinions and yes, even to laugh at her if she deserves it. But you should be aware that the vast majority of those racist/sexist epithets directed at her are coming from right wingers, as far as I could tell.

And anyone who engages in that crap at LGF will lose their account.

Just read the Salon interview.

Abby Hoffman, she ain’t.

121 Kragar  Apr 3, 2014 11:18:44am

Wow, Pat Dollard is even more of a psychotic bastard than I realized:

When he missed a meeting with HBO, he filmed a documentary of him fucking his friend’s girlfriend on meth and decided to send them that, instead.

Dollard enters the frame, totally nude, a decrepit satyr. A montage ensues of him performing various sex acts with her, intercut with close-ups of the girl smoking a glass pipe. There is unintended comedy: while Dollard is having sex with her on the couch, it catches fire, and the two fail to notice until flames engulf their feet. There is intended comedy: Dollard performs anal sex with her while simultaneously talking on the phone with an agent at William Morris.

As you have probably gathered, he was a mess. But he still managed to make his appearances on Hannity & Colmes and Tony Snow’s radio show, to praise war. The war that he loved because it felt to him like a particularly exciting acid trip. This is the sort of person Breitbart would rail against as an example of decrepit, hedonistic, vapid, vile Big Hollywood, if it was a liberal. The sort of person whose excesses he and Mark Ebner ridiculed and exposed in Hollywood, Interrupted. But, you know, he is a conservative! So let’s throw him a party!

122 FemNaziBitch  Apr 3, 2014 11:18:46am

re: #119 Charles Johnson

A “witch hunt?” Seriously? That’s how you see this thread?

I have to disagree. Suey Park is not exempt from criticism.

No, not so much here but on twitter. I was concerned that it would carry over here. Thanks for #115. I needed the clarification to calm my own anxieties.

123 Amory Blaine  Apr 3, 2014 11:20:21am

I drink my Brawndo from BPA lined aluminum cans. Like a real American!!

124 Charles Johnson  Apr 3, 2014 11:20:39am

re: #121 Kragar

Wow, Pat Dollard is even more of a psychotic bastard than I realized:

Right wing journalism!

125 Feline Fearless Leader  Apr 3, 2014 11:21:22am

I prefer being referred to as a “chromatically challenged conspiracist”
/

126 gwangung  Apr 3, 2014 11:21:35am

re: #115 Charles Johnson

If she’s going to put herself out in public as an “activist,” I think it’s absolutely fair to criticize her opinions and yes, even to laugh at her if she deserves it. But you should be aware that the vast majority of those racist/sexist epithets directed at her are coming from right wingers, as far as I could tell.

And anyone who engages in that crap at LGF will lose their account.

I think she’s bought into her own press, and equates ANY critique of her or her tactics as a criticism of her ideology and goals. That’s why she turned around and savaged so many other Asian American activists. And, absolutely, she did Native Americans no favor with her behavior.

(I will say, as an aside, that I don’t believe any of the really bad racism and sexism came from anybody other than the usual right wing suspects. But not all liberals are free from holding problematic positions).

127 lawhawk  Apr 3, 2014 11:22:02am

re: #107 Charles Johnson

Those lying creeps. He’s LISTED as a columnist on their website. In the real world, that would tend to mean he’s a columnist for that website.

Do a search for Dollard, and his name comes up as a columnist.

breitbart.com

128 Targetpractice  Apr 3, 2014 11:22:09am

re: #121 Kragar

Wow, Pat Dollard is even more of a psychotic bastard than I realized:

IOKIYAC

129 klys  Apr 3, 2014 11:22:38am

This whole thing feels like it’s turned into a farce, with Suey Park playing the role of GG, happily distracting from what are some very real issues that could benefit from being discussed, but at this point won’t be because the conversation is now all about her.

130 FemNaziBitch  Apr 3, 2014 11:23:44am

re: #129 klys

This whole thing feels like it’s turned into a farce, with Suey Park playing the role of GG, happily distracting from what are some very real issues that could benefit from being discussed, but at this point won’t be because the conversation is now all about her.

Yeah, I think I chalk that up to her age and lack of experience in being attacked. She is reacting instead of leading the conversation.

131 Dr. Matt  Apr 3, 2014 11:23:56am

re: #80 lawhawk

Who knows more about arming the masses: military commanders or some RW-dipshit who runs a blog?

132 Amory Blaine  Apr 3, 2014 11:23:57am

Dollard should team up with O’Keefe.

133 Dr Lizardo  Apr 3, 2014 11:24:04am

re: #116 RealityBasedSteve

That’s even better than blaming it on the “Last Guy Who Left the Organization”.

RBS

LOL

It gets better; the current - and somewhat obscure - owners of OKD are now asking the Finance Ministry for billion of crowns in financial assistance, or ‘they’ll have to shut it down’, leading to a loss of about 30,000 jobs in Ostrava and the surrounding area. Bear in mind that this area already has an unemployment rate of about 10%; a closure of OKD would skyrocket that number to about 35%.

The current Finance Minister has called this “blackmail” and “unacceptable”, especially when the privatization contract specifically said “they couldn’t apply to the state for help” - in order words, sink or swim.

There’s a suspicion among Czech journalists - who are legendary in sniffing out corruption - that OKD may have been sold to a law firm in Prague, who then created another company as the ‘buyers’ of OKD.

A law firm conveniently owned by close personal friends of PM Sobotka. Needless to say, they’re looking into it.

134 ObserverArt  Apr 3, 2014 11:24:21am

FemNazi…would you care to explain what about the Colbert tweet made you uncomfortable and unappreciative? Also, you do understand the tweet in question was from his show as a plug of the night before when he said the ‘offending’ part within the context of the point he was making. I may have missed any initial comments you made earlier.

And if you do not want to, I completely understand.

135 NJDhockeyfan  Apr 3, 2014 11:25:42am
136 Dr. Matt  Apr 3, 2014 11:25:50am

re: #121 Kragar

Wow, Pat Dollard is even more of a psychotic bastard than I realized:

Chuckle-worthy blurb:

“He [Dullard] was also one of those “9/11 changed everything for me” assholes who decided that the murder of thousands of innocents by fanatics meant that George Bush was a visionary hero and Michael Moore was fat.”

137 Kragar  Apr 3, 2014 11:25:53am

re: #132 Amory Blaine

Dollard should team up with O’Keefe.

Its could be a buddy psycho creeper movie.

138 Feline Fearless Leader  Apr 3, 2014 11:26:00am

re: #130 FemNaziBitch

Yeah, I think I chalk that up to her age and lack of experience in being attacked. She is reacting instead of leading the conversation.

Maybe part of the a revised education process should be getting people a teflon coating so that they can allow a lot of the attacks just slide off. Most of the stuff just isn’t worth reacting to.

139 Decatur Deb  Apr 3, 2014 11:26:19am

re: #121 Kragar

Wow, Pat Dollard is even more of a psychotic bastard than I realized:

You’re next, Shapiro.

140 klys  Apr 3, 2014 11:27:14am

re: #130 FemNaziBitch

Yeah, I think I chalk that up to her age and lack of experience in being attacked. She is reacting instead of leading the conversation.

If the initial bit had been all it was, maybe. But she’s dug in too much. I think her activism is as real as GG’s at this point, with similar goals: profit and attention for her, first and foremost, and maybe some small improvement for the cause later.

141 Decatur Deb  Apr 3, 2014 11:28:09am

re: #138 Feline Fearless Leader

Maybe part of the a revised education process should be getting people a teflon coating so that they can allow a lot of the attacks just slide off. Most of the stuff just isn’t worth reacting to.

It’s simpler than that: If you don’t like getting punched, don’t box.

142 b.d.  Apr 3, 2014 11:29:20am

CNN:

‘Big’ announcement coming in jet search

cnn.com

143 Targetpractice  Apr 3, 2014 11:30:03am

re: #142 b.d.

CNN:

cnn.com

If it’s not that CNN is ending coverage and moving onto something new, I’m gonna scream.

144 RealityBasedSteve  Apr 3, 2014 11:30:16am

re: #136 Dr. Matt

Chuckle-worthy blurb:

“He [Dullard] was also one of those “9/11 changed everything for me” assholes who decided that the murder of thousands of innocents by fanatics meant that George Bush was a visionary hero and Michael Moore was fat.”

And that after missing a scheduled interview, a perfectly rational response would be to send a self-porno of him doing his friend’s Meth Addled Girlfriend and sending that in as a response.

Yep, that changed everything.

RBS

145 b.d.  Apr 3, 2014 11:30:19am

re: #142 b.d.

CNN:

cnn.com

The spokesperson, who is not authorized to speak to the media, told CNN there would be a “big” operational announcement on Friday by retired Air Chief Marshal Angus Houston, the head of the Australia’s new Joint Agency Coordination Centre, who has been tasked with overseeing the search effort.

It’s not yet clear what that announcement might be, but any progress will likely be welcomed by the despairing relatives of the 239 people aboard the plane, which vanished nearly four weeks ago.

146 A Mom Anon  Apr 3, 2014 11:31:32am

re: #134 ObserverArt

I’d also ask if the people upset with Colbert actually watched the entire segment, including Suey Park. There’s a huge lack of context missing from the discussion here ,IMO. I’ve heard more than one comparison of Colbert to Limbaugh in this mess and that’s just simply not true. Limbaugh is a sexist, racist asshole, Colbert isn’t.

Ms. Park is really young and really full of herself. She’s also managed to take all the discussion off American Indian issues and make it all about her. She doesn’t want allies? OK then, good luck with that, let’s see what you can accomplish going in that direction. Also too, Michelle Malkin has NEVER spoken up about Limbaugh’s nasty ass self, and he’s done more than one imitation of Asian people far more offensive than this mess with Colbert. The shit’s all over the internet, it’s not like he keeps his illness a secret.

147 NJDhockeyfan  Apr 3, 2014 11:32:00am

re: #142 b.d.

CNN:

cnn.com

“Here at CNN we confirmed that the airplane has not been found yet. Keep up with CNN for more breaking news.”

148 Pie-onist Overlord  Apr 3, 2014 11:32:08am

re: #108 b.d.

Somebody has to own the aluminum supplies. Who do you want to own all of the aluminum Alan?!?!?!

Are we really that out of things to be pissed about?

It is actually a thing.
The Goldman-Sachs Aluminum shuffle.

149 Lidane  Apr 3, 2014 11:32:12am
150 Kragar  Apr 3, 2014 11:32:54am

Pat Dollard in Vanity Fair:

When you consider that just 18 months earlier Dollard was a confessed whore-loving, alcoholic, coked-out Hollywood agent, his transformation into the great hope of conservative America is nothing short of astonishing. “It’s fucking crazy, dude,” he admits as he stands at the entrance of his hotel, smoking and watching planes take off from LAX. “I was afraid conservatives wouldn’t have me, but they’re fucking all over me.”

151 Charles Johnson  Apr 3, 2014 11:34:47am

re: #146 A Mom Anon

Far be it from me to impugn her motives, but it might be relevant that Suey Park says she makes $4000 a week from speaking engagements.

152 FemNaziBitch  Apr 3, 2014 11:34:53am

re: #134 ObserverArt

FemNazi…would you care to explain what about the Colbert tweet made you uncomfortable and unappreciative? Also, you do understand the tweet in question was from his show as a plug of the night before when he said the ‘offending’ part within the context of the point he was making. I may have missed any initial comments you made earlier.

And if you do not want to, I completely understand.

First, it was twitted out of context. Standing alone, I thought it sounded like something Rush would have said. Unfortunately knowing the context does not take away that “first impression”. A young person, such as Park, may not have the maturity to stop the “freak-out” factor.

Such tactics are what Rush thrives on. I understand that is not Colbert. He should have known better to have that tweet published as it was.

So, once I understood the context, I let it go. But the constant attacks on Park seem as tho those who are attacking her are saying she doesn’t have a right to her own reaction. Right or wrong, everyone has the right to their own emotions.

This is, of course, right at the heart of my own pet peeve issue.

Thus, I think I have to step back from this topic.

153 Ryan King  Apr 3, 2014 11:35:40am

re: #115 Charles Johnson

If she’s going to put herself out in public as an “activist,” I think it’s absolutely fair to criticize her opinions and yes, even to laugh at her if she deserves it. But you should be aware that the vast majority of those racist/sexist epithets directed at her are coming from right wingers, as far as I could tell.

And anyone who engages in that crap at LGF will lose their account.

Coincidentally, Colbert’s whole shtick is satirizing a right winger.

That point seems to be lost in this whole Teaspoon Tempest.

154 jaunte  Apr 3, 2014 11:35:43am
155 gwangung  Apr 3, 2014 11:37:35am

Some folks may find this interesting….this is someone who started the #NotYourAsianSIdekick hashtag with Park, but broke with her:

fascinasiansblog.com

156 FemNaziBitch  Apr 3, 2014 11:38:55am
“The Colbert Report” tweeted: “I am willing to show the Asian community I care by introducing the Ching-Chong, Ding-Dong Foundation for Sensitivity to Orientals or Whatever.”

Imagine you do not know the context, and are not a Colbert viewer and being totally ignorant of the background … .insert the n-word for the Ching-Chong, Ding-Dong and tell me how you would react?

This would have been me when I read the tweet.

157 Charles Johnson  Apr 3, 2014 11:39:01am

re: #152 FemNaziBitch

Such tactics are what Rush thrives on. I understand that is not Colbert. He should have known better to have that tweet published as it was.

The tweet was posted by a Comedy Central employee, not by Colbert. He had nothing to do with it before it was posted. All these TV shows have people who tweet for their shows, and the actual hosts don’t control or approve what they post.

158 Justanotherhuman  Apr 3, 2014 11:39:12am

re: #151 Charles Johnson

Far be it from me to impugn her motives, but it might be relevant that Suey Park says she makes $4000 a week from speaking engagements.

She’s 23 yrs old and supposedly working on a master’s deg; at 23 you’re an adult. And she’s making that kind of money already? “Kids” don’t make that kind of money unless they’re entertainers.

Well, I suppose you could call her that.

159 klys  Apr 3, 2014 11:39:47am

re: #152 FemNaziBitch

First, it was twitted out of context. Standing alone, I thought it sounded like something Rush would have said. Unfortunately knowing the context does not take away that “first impression”. A young person, such as Park, may not have the maturity to stop the “freak-out” factor.

Such tactics are what Rush thrives on. I understand that is not Colbert. He should have known better to have that tweet published as it was.

So, once I understood the context, I let it go. But the constant attacks on Park seem as tho >those who are attacking her are saying she doesn’t have a right to her own reaction. Right or wrong, everyone has the right to their own emotions.

This is, of course, right at the heart of my own pet peeve issue.

Thus, I think I have to step back from this topic.

If you have to step back, that’s cool.

I do think you should know that she’s said that context doesn’t matter in this case - and she was familiar with Colbert’s schtick well before the Tweet in question (which did not come from Stephen’s account therefore should not be treated as written by him - it was the show account). Which is something frequently encountered in the la la rainbows and puppies and unicorns social justice land on the Internet, which I occasionally look at and then back away slowly.

160 FemNaziBitch  Apr 3, 2014 11:41:03am

I have to go —

bbl

161 b_sharp  Apr 3, 2014 11:41:35am

If I may.
What Mz Parks is trying to do is laudable. Making changes in social attitudes is difficult and sometimes being vociferous and leaving most of the sweet talk in the bedroom is necessary. Little gets done if you hide in the closet hoping that the ignorant will become educated and the social constraints we all have to live under will be fairly and equally developed and enforced. Talking big, talking loud and talking aggressively has worked in the past.

However, and you knew this was coming, her inability to work with those willing to support her within the community with most of the power and most of the fear of change shows her immaturity. The people with the power, the people who fear losing significance as other groups grasp at the strands of equality absolutely have to be convinced of the validity of Mz. Parks’ views. Without asking for and accepting the help of members of the power elite, she has no chance.

She has to recognize this.

162 NJDhockeyfan  Apr 3, 2014 11:42:20am
163 Charles Johnson  Apr 3, 2014 11:42:29am

re: #156 FemNaziBitch

Imagine you do not know the context, and are not a Colbert viewer and being totally ignorant of the background … .insert the n-word for the Ching-Chong, Ding-Dong and tell me how you would react?

This would have been me when I read the tweet.

I agree that if you read it completely out of context, it comes across as insensitive. But the context is that Stephen Colbert has been satirizing this kind of right wing nonsense for 10 years now. Shouldn’t he have the benefit of the doubt?

Rush Limbaugh is exactly the opposite. He’s the real thing, racist to his core, and if he said something like this it would not have been satire.

The difference is huge, IMO.

164 gwangung  Apr 3, 2014 11:44:42am

re: #159 klys

If you have to step back, that’s cool.

I do think you should know that she’s said that context doesn’t matter in this case - and she was familiar with Colbert’s schtick well before the Tweet in question (which did not come from Stephen’s account therefore should not be treated as written by him - it was the show account). Which is something frequently encountered in the la la rainbows and puppies and unicorns social justice land on the Internet, which I occasionally look at and then back away slowly.

Yeah, (though that makes me think she painted herself into a corner that she refuses to make her way out of).

That sort of critique Is something I most vociferously don’t agree with. It treats viewers as morons. It also tries to make themselves (Park et al) the authority that will TELL viewers what is wrong, instead of SHOWING that racism is wrong by demonstrating it concretely by having only obvious racists use the problematic stuff.

That just flies in the face of social science research and artistic craftsmanship.

165 Charles Johnson  Apr 3, 2014 11:45:22am

re: #161 b_sharp

I think it’s more than just an inability to work with potential allies — her vitriolic attacks are extremely alienating to people who would otherwise be on her side 100%.

166 Charles Johnson  Apr 3, 2014 11:46:21am

Call me a white supremacist, but I think Stephen Colbert has done vastly more to awaken people to the reality of right wing racism and prejudice than Suey Park ever will.

167 A Mom Anon  Apr 3, 2014 11:46:37am

re: #152 FemNaziBitch

She absolutely has a right to feel whatever she feels. She’s also dug in her heels so deep she can’t move and even bother to understand that it works both ways. She’s made it clear she hates white people, OK, fine then, she’s made her point clear. To someone a bit older and wiser it might seem as though she’s doing this for publicity and attention more than actually being offended though. I could be wrong, but she’s the one who brought up money. I’d be happy to take her seriously if she was making a point other than “that white guy offended me”, have a rational discussion like an adult or don’t expect to be treated seriously. That goes for everyone, not just her.

I know people on Pine Ridge in SD, they’ve got serious problems that Suey Park hasn’t done one damned thing to help. BTW, if anyone is interested in helping Lakota or Oglala people, One Spirit is a wonderful non profit devoted to making life better on the Rez, just sayin’. They have a facebook page and a website.

168 klys  Apr 3, 2014 11:47:34am

re: #156 FemNaziBitch

Imagine you do not know the context, and are not a Colbert viewer and being totally ignorant of the background … .insert the n-word for the Ching-Chong, Ding-Dong and tell me how you would react?

This would have been me when I read the tweet.

I know you just left, so I’ll leave this here anyway and hopefully you’ll see it when you get back.

An initial reaction similar to that is understandable, if one has no context to go off of. I wouldn’t fault an initial reaction like that.

Where we break with reasonable is when, even after learning a little bit about context, etc., there’s no modulation in the response. None. Added to that, we then get a GG-type reaction to any criticism at all, with added racial commentary. From someone who should have known at least some of the context in the beginning.

She’s welcome to her feelings on this, but I don’t necessarily have to watch her milk those feelings for maximum attention for her (without, you know, ever mentioning the actual cause that drove the segment on Colbert in the first place).

In other words, I’m criticizing her subsequent choices of action, not her initial feelings. Being young only goes so far as an excuse (and with me, I admit, that’s not far at all - but I’m young-ish too).

169 b_sharp  Apr 3, 2014 11:47:37am

re: #163 Charles Johnson

I agree that if you read it completely out of context, it comes across as insensitive. But the context is that Stephen Colbert has been satirizing this kind of right wing nonsense for 10 years now. Shouldn’t he have the benefit of the doubt?

Rush Limbaugh is exactly the opposite. He’s the real thing, racist to his core, and if he said something like this it would not have been satire.

The difference is huge, IMO.

Colbert was playing a role. That role was as a Limbaugh clone.

170 Dr. Matt  Apr 3, 2014 11:48:47am

re: #156 FemNaziBitch

Imagine you do not know the context, and are not a Colbert viewer and being totally ignorant of the background … .insert the n-word for the Ching-Chong, Ding-Dong and tell me how you would react?

This would have been me when I read the tweet.

Very good point. But rather than finding out the context of Colbert’s well-established satire, she opted to act like a knee-jerk reactionary RWNJ. I would think you, as many of us here at LGF, would have did 5 minutes of homework to find out the context. She was lazy and resorted to her twitter “activism”. Moreover, she continues to stand behind her “outrage” after countless interviewers explained to her Colbert’s satirical context. She doesn’t make any sense. She’s stubborn and just can’t admit she’s wrong AND NOW she’s lashing out at “white liberal men” as the world’s biggest problem. She turned herself into a victim and hi-jacked a real and important problem (racism against Native Americans).

171 EPR-radar  Apr 3, 2014 11:49:41am

re: #161 b_sharp

If I may.
What Mz Parks is trying to do is laudable. Making changes in social attitudes is difficult and sometimes being vociferous and leaving most of the sweet talk in the bedroom is necessary. Little gets done if you hide in the closet hoping that the ignorant will become educated and the social constraints we all have to live under will be fairly and equally developed and enforced. Talking big, talking loud and talking aggressively has worked in the past.

However, and you knew this was coming, her inability to work with those willing to support her within the community with most of the power and most of the fear of change shows her immaturity. The people with the power, the people who fear losing significance as other groups grasp at the strands of equality absolutely have to be convinced of the validity of Mz. Parks’ views. Without asking for and accepting the help of members of the power elite, she has no chance.

She has to recognize this.

There’s a subtlety to recognizing the part above that I’ve emphasized and making sure it doesn’t degenerate into an admission of the validity of existing power relationships.

IMO, this is the main problem with Park’s absolutism. She’s so intent on avoiding any validation of the existing power structures that she rejects too many possible allies out of hand.

Yes, it is correct to insist that minority rights in principle are not favors granted by those in power, but in practice both the stick (i.e., demands for proper treatment) and the carrot (i.e., working with the power structure when possible) are usually necessary.

172 Charles Johnson  Apr 3, 2014 11:49:57am

re: #168 klys

It’s even worse, though, because she now says she totally understood the context right from the beginning.

173 Amory Blaine  Apr 3, 2014 11:49:58am

re: #144 RealityBasedSteve

Never forget.

174 gwangung  Apr 3, 2014 11:50:09am

One think I WILL criticize is that the role mass media plays in keeping people like Park in the spotlight. They immediately focus on the loud and binary thinkers, and latch onto their foibles and heterodoxy to emphasize conflict (which equals ratings).

Plenty of other Asian American activists who will criticize Colbert and do it gracefully and with nuance, but you will NEVER hear the mainstream media mention them, let alone interview them. (And nuance is something mainstream media is allergic to, like peanuts….)

175 ObserverArt  Apr 3, 2014 11:50:30am

re: #146 A Mom Anon

I’d also ask if the people upset with Colbert actually watched the entire segment, including Suey Park. There’s a huge lack of context missing from the discussion here ,IMO. I’ve heard more than one comparison of Colbert to Limbaugh in this mess and that’s just simply not true. Limbaugh is a sexist, racist asshole, Colbert isn’t.

Ms. Park is really young and really full of herself. She’s also managed to take all the discussion off American Indian issues and make it all about her. She doesn’t want allies? OK then, good luck with that, let’s see what you can accomplish going in that direction. Also too, Michelle Malkin has NEVER spoken up about Limbaugh’s nasty ass self, and he’s done more than one imitation of Asian people far more offensive than this mess with Colbert. The shit’s all over the internet, it’s not like he keeps his illness a secret.

It was made pretty clear in a previous LGF thread.

Stephen Colbert vs. the Attack of the Hashtag Activists

176 klys  Apr 3, 2014 11:50:39am

re: #170 Dr. Matt

Very good point. But rather than finding out the context of Colbert’s well-established satire, she opted to act like a knee-jerk reactionary RWNJ. I would think you, as many of us here at LGF, would have did 5 minutes of homework to find out the context. She was lazy and resorted to her twitter “activism”. Moreover, she continues to stand behind her “outrage” after countless interviewers explained to her Colbert’s satirical context. She doesn’t make any sense. She’s stubborn and just can’t admit she’s wrong AND NOW she’s lashing out at “white liberal men” as the world’s biggest problem. She turned herself into a victim and hi-jacked a real and important problem (racism against Native Americans).

She knew before the twitterstorm about Colbert. Gus linked an older tweet from her a couple days back about how she loved the show.

177 Charles Johnson  Apr 3, 2014 11:50:56am

Again - read the article linked above and you’ll find out that Park says she actually SAW the episode of Colbert Report with that line in it, and understood the context completely. But she simply didn’t care.

178 ObserverArt  Apr 3, 2014 11:51:56am

re: #152 FemNaziBitch

First, it was twitted out of context. Standing alone, I thought it sounded like something Rush would have said. Unfortunately knowing the context does not take away that “first impression”. A young person, such as Park, may not have the maturity to stop the “freak-out” factor.

Such tactics are what Rush thrives on. I understand that is not Colbert. He should have known better to have that tweet published as it was.

So, once I understood the context, I let it go. But the constant attacks on Park seem as tho >those who are attacking her are saying she doesn’t have a right to her own reaction. Right or wrong, everyone has the right to their own emotions.

This is, of course, right at the heart of my own pet peeve issue.

Thus, I think I have to step back from this topic.

Thank you much for the reply.

179 Dr. Matt  Apr 3, 2014 11:52:05am

re: #165 Charles Johnson

I think it’s more than just an inability to work with potential allies — her vitriolic attacks are extremely alienating to people who would otherwise be on her side 100%.

^THIS^

It’s extremely annoying and immature for her to continue to lash out at “white liberal men” and simultaneously portray herself as a victim.

180 gwangung  Apr 3, 2014 11:52:19am

re: #172 Charles Johnson

It’s even worse, though, because she now says she totally understood the context right from the beginning.

I do not think I believe that at all.

181 wrenchwench  Apr 3, 2014 11:53:00am

re: #155 gwangung

Some folks may find this interesting….this is someone who started the #NotYourAsianSIdekick hashtag with Park, but broke with her:

fascinasiansblog.com

And it links to another one. Both seem to say they had to break with Suey Park when they decided to be activists out of love rather than hate.

182 Dr. Matt  Apr 3, 2014 11:53:56am

re: #176 klys

She knew before the twitterstorm about Colbert. Gus linked an older tweet from her a couple days back about how she loved the show.

183 b_sharp  Apr 3, 2014 11:54:51am

Well, as Satt says.

The long drive home beckons
Later.

184 klys  Apr 3, 2014 11:55:02am

re: #172 Charles Johnson

It’s even worse, though, because she now says she totally understood the context right from the beginning.

I know. But I was running with GGT’s hypothetical, to show that even if Park hadn’t, I’d still criticize the subsequent actions.

One reason I don’t get involved with a lot of the social just internet lala shit even though they serve to highlight a lot of inequalities that do need addressing is because the structure that’s developed is one where one’s voice is respected not for the quality of one’s ideas but for how many minority-isms are attached to your life. As beautifully exemplified here (and in that fantastic article gdf linked yesterday).

185 ObserverArt  Apr 3, 2014 11:56:20am

re: #156 FemNaziBitch

Imagine you do not know the context, and are not a Colbert viewer and being totally ignorant of the background … .insert the n-word for the Ching-Chong, Ding-Dong and tell me how you would react?

This would have been me when I read the tweet.

Which is why it is important to educate oneself on the background BEFORE going off. It is just so easy to be outraged (left or right, up or down, progressive, regressive) and sometimes it just seems people thrive on being outraged. One of the reasons reality TV is so big.

(By the way…comment is not aimed at you)

186 wrenchwench  Apr 3, 2014 11:56:40am

re: #183 b_sharp

Well, as Satt says.

The long drive home beckons
Later.

You forgot ‘quiet’. Maybe your vehicle is louder.

187 A Mom Anon  Apr 3, 2014 11:57:31am

re: #180 gwangung

I think it just might be possible she saw the Twitchy (and seriously, who would name anything to be taken seriously …”twitchy”? It just screams of meth and sadness) furor and decided why not jump on the bandwagon? Especially since she’s buds with Malkin and that seems to have brought Michelle a lot of money and notoriety. She’s using this to make a name for herself and maybe score a payday in the process. Which is sad for a whole host of reasons.

188 gwangung  Apr 3, 2014 12:00:02pm

re: #187 A Mom Anon

I think it just might be possible she saw the Twitchy (and seriously, who would name anything to be taken seriously …”twitchy”? It just screams of meth and sadness) furor and decided why not jump on the bandwagon? Especially since she’s buds with Malkin and that seems to have brought Michelle a lot of money and notoriety. She’s using this to make a name for herself and maybe score a payday in the process. Which is sad for a whole host of reasons.

I’m not supposed to consider that, you know, being an old guard activist….

But, yeah, that’s sad….

189 Floral Giraffe  Apr 3, 2014 12:00:21pm

re: #152 FemNaziBitch

Just accept a hug, from a Giraffe!
(((FNB)))

190 Lidane  Apr 3, 2014 12:02:15pm
191 b.d.  Apr 3, 2014 12:02:19pm
192 Targetpractice  Apr 3, 2014 12:02:39pm

re: #191 b.d.

[Embedded content]

Which parts?

193 GeneJockey  Apr 3, 2014 12:03:21pm

FWIW, I think Suey Park is entitled to her own reactions, but we’re also entitled to our reactions to her.

Perhaps I’m being harsh, but when I read

What is the best way to work with white people, to get them on our side?

I don’t want them on our side.

I think - This person is an idiot. She’s no better than any other racist idiot, whether or not she might occasionally stumble across a valid point.

Knowing that she’s an idiot, and apparently an attention whore, I find myself having to fight to avoid discounting VALID voices making some of the same points. Honestly, she does damage to their cause, by making it easy for folks to point to her and say, “See what idiots these Politically Correct’ lefties are?”

194 b.d.  Apr 3, 2014 12:04:05pm
(Reuters) - U.S. attorneys general have launched a multi-state investigation into a breach in which criminals gained access to a repository of some 200 million social security numbers through a unit of data provider Experian Plc.

reuters.com

195 kerFuFFler  Apr 3, 2014 12:04:59pm

re: #152 FemNaziBitch

So, once I understood the context, I let it go. But the constant attacks on Park seem as tho those who are attacking her are saying she doesn’t have a right to her own reaction. Right or wrong, everyone has the right to their own emotions.

Sure she has a right to her own emotional response, but that does not mean that people have to take her view seriously. People who think she is stupid for not understanding the context of Colbert’s remarks also have a right to their opinion and the right to express their thoughts. As soon as she published her ill-conceived rant she became fair game for people calling her out on her BS.

196 Pie-onist Overlord  Apr 3, 2014 12:05:01pm
197 b.d.  Apr 3, 2014 12:05:08pm

re: #192 Targetpractice

Which parts?

The dull parts

198 Targetpractice  Apr 3, 2014 12:05:50pm

re: #197 b.d.

The dull parts

No doubt. Most of it probably shit we already know.

199 NJDhockeyfan  Apr 3, 2014 12:06:02pm
200 GeneJockey  Apr 3, 2014 12:06:07pm

re: #196 Pie-onist Overlord

[Embedded content]

I know I do.

201 CuriousLurker  Apr 3, 2014 12:06:30pm

FFS, this stuff isn’t rocket science—Twitter’s 140-charcter limit isn’t sufficient to include context with every tweet. Anyone on Twitter knows this going in, before they ever utter their first tweet. That being the case, common sense would dictate that If you see something and it seems outrageous, then you freaking go find the context yourself and respond appropriately.

That is what grown-ups with critical thinking skills do. Responding with knee-jerk reactions, lobbing racist, sexist, or otherwise inflammatory tweet-grenades and/or having an emotional meltdown in public is NOT.

re: #141 Decatur Deb

It’s simpler than that: If you don’t like getting punched, don’t box.

THIS. 1000x this.

202 EPR-radar  Apr 3, 2014 12:07:02pm

re: #193 GeneJockey

FWIW, I think Suey Park is entitled to her own reactions, but we’re also entitled to our reactions to her.

Perhaps I’m being harsh, but when I read

What is the best way to work with white people, to get them on our side?

I don’t want them on our side.

I think - This person is an idiot. She’s no better than any other racist idiot, whether or not she might occasionally stumble across a valid point.

Knowing that she’s an idiot, and apparently an attention whore, I find myself having to fight to avoid discounting VALID voices making some of the same points. Honestly, she does damage to their cause, by making it easy for folks to point to her and say, “See what idiots these Politically Correct’ lefties are?”

Very true. Privilege is a difficult concept for many, and it really is unhelpful to have Suey Park’s ravings poisoning this well.

203 lawhawk  Apr 3, 2014 12:07:45pm

re: #194 b.d.

The same Experian that then turns around and provides credit monitoring when your credit information gets stolen. Super.

204 ObserverArt  Apr 3, 2014 12:08:18pm

re: #174 gwangung

One think I WILL criticize is that the role mass media plays in keeping people like Park in the spotlight. They immediately focus on the loud and binary thinkers, and latch onto their foibles and heterodoxy to emphasize conflict (which equals ratings).

Plenty of other Asian American activists who will criticize Colbert and do it gracefully and with nuance, but you will NEVER hear the mainstream media mention them, let alone interview them. (And nuance is something mainstream media is allergic to, like peanuts….)

Do you get the feeling Suey park is very aware of this and is using it?

And do you think Colbert deserves criticism over his whole bit on Dan Snyder and the Redskins. Would he have been better served to make it about his own ethnic group, or not do the bit at all?

Maybe he could have said he was going to start the White Honkies Foundation for Aggressive Invaders.

///

205 GeneJockey  Apr 3, 2014 12:08:27pm

re: #199 NJDhockeyfan

[Embedded content]

I find that baby swordfish incredibly cute, but at the same time I’m envisioning tiny steaks.

Am I bad?

206 SmithCommaJohn  Apr 3, 2014 12:08:33pm

Well she is just adorable.

207 NJDhockeyfan  Apr 3, 2014 12:10:22pm

re: #205 GeneJockey

I find that baby swordfish incredibly cute, but at the same time I’m envisioning tiny steaks.

Am I bad?

I was wondering how long it will take to qualify for steaks on the grill.

208 Kragar  Apr 3, 2014 12:10:27pm
209 gwangung  Apr 3, 2014 12:10:49pm

re: #204 ObserverArt

Do you get the feeling Suey park is very aware of this and is using it?

And do you think Colbert deserves criticism over his whole bit on Dan Snyder and the Redskins. Would he have been better served to make it about his won ethnic group, or not do the bit at all?

Maybe he could have said he was going to start the White Honkies Foundation for Aggressive Invaders.

///

Not sure Park is consciously aware in a Machiavellian way, but it’s in the back of her head.

And I DO think she deserves a hell of a lot of heat for taking the focus away from Native Americans. They’ve mentioned that, but they’re being too polite to call her out by name

210 Pie-onist Overlord  Apr 3, 2014 12:11:18pm

So anybody who belongs to whatever ethnic group can declare themselves an “activist” on Twitter and get a bunch of attention.

211 NJDhockeyfan  Apr 3, 2014 12:11:28pm
212 Feline Fearless Leader  Apr 3, 2014 12:12:27pm

re: #210 Pie-onist Overlord

So anybody who belongs to whatever ethnic group can declare themselves an “activist” on Twitter and get a bunch of attention.

Works for Greenwald.
//

213 GeneJockey  Apr 3, 2014 12:13:49pm

re: #210 Pie-onist Overlord

So anybody who belongs to whatever ethnic group can declare themselves an “activist” on Twitter and get a bunch of attention.

Yeah, but if I - white, male, etc. - did it, it would look bad. All the wrong people would follow me.

214 Pie-onist Overlord  Apr 3, 2014 12:13:52pm

re: #212 Feline Fearless Leader

Works for Greenwald.
//

works for Pamela Geller.

215 iossarian  Apr 3, 2014 12:14:03pm

re: #101 sauceruney

If you’re drinking beer from aluminum cans, you’re doing it wrong.

Not so fast! Microbreweries are turning back to aluminum for its light-blocking advantage over glass.

216 b.d.  Apr 3, 2014 12:14:04pm

re: #211 NJDhockeyfan

[Embedded content]

Pretty cool sight/shot.

217 Justanotherhuman  Apr 3, 2014 12:14:41pm

re: #188 gwangung

I’m not supposed to consider that, you know, being an old guard activist….

But, yeah, that’s sad….

I don’t think today’s “activists” are motivated by the same ideals as we were back in the day. We were not about individual power, although those with skills and talents were recognized for it while everyone was encouraged to develop themselves.

Today, they all seem to be coming from the libertarian perspective of making a pile of cash from just running their mouths online.

We hit the streets, the places of power, we were out there en masse and united. And some of us gave up an awful lot to work at it full time, as I did helping to establish and run a feminist women’s center. I wasn’t your student type, either, but a working mother, as many of us were. We worked very hard, back in 1971, to get the county to develop plans for a women’s shelter and assistance for battered women at a time when it was desperately needed and eventually, an office of women’s affairs was opened as well.

It’s not enough to raise consciousness about bigotry and oppression—you have to work very hard at eliminating it, most of the time without any recognition at all.

218 RealityBasedSteve  Apr 3, 2014 12:14:43pm

re: #205 GeneJockey

I find that baby swordfish incredibly cute, but at the same time I’m envisioning tiny steaks.

Am I bad?

I guess that I’m just a bit surprised that they have the sail fully developed that small.

RBS

219 Testy Toad T  Apr 3, 2014 12:14:53pm

re: #215 iossarian

Not so fast! Microbreweries are turning back to aluminum for its light-blocking advantage over glass.

It’s also much lighter weight, so transportation footprint is a lot smaller.

Cans are objectively superior to bottles when it comes to packaging and transporting beer.

220 GeneJockey  Apr 3, 2014 12:15:17pm

re: #207 NJDhockeyfan

I was wondering how long it will take to qualify for steaks on the grill.

We used to have swordfish when I was a kid. Good stuff. Meaty, good flavor, not really fishy, even the dark meat. Sadly, overfished. Easy to do when you go for the top of the food chain.

221 Pie-onist Overlord  Apr 3, 2014 12:15:59pm

No dumbass, voter ID laws are designed to make it extra difficult for some minorities to obtain.

222 klys  Apr 3, 2014 12:16:38pm

re: #217 Justanotherhuman

Can we please distinguish between actual activists and what’s happening here? Please?

Not all activists today are like this. Most of them are not. People are still out there, making a difference in the real world. You just aren’t hearing about them because they aren’t making a shitstorm on Twitter because they have better things to do with their time.

223 GeneJockey  Apr 3, 2014 12:17:08pm

re: #221 Pie-onist Overlord

No dumbass, voter ID laws are designed to make it extra difficult for some minorities to obtain.

[Embedded content]

No, it’s entirely by chance that they make voting more difficult for minorities.
///

224 iossarian  Apr 3, 2014 12:18:23pm

re: #221 Pie-onist Overlord

No dumbass, voter ID laws are designed to make it extra difficult for some minorities to obtain.

[Embedded content]

I love how they reinforced the smug “we’re white and we’re right” tone of their post with a picture of a smug-looking chuckling white guy.

225 GeneJockey  Apr 3, 2014 12:18:33pm

re: #222 klys

Can we please distinguish between actual activists and what’s happening here? Please?

Not all activists today are like this. Most of them are not. People are still out there, making a difference in the real world. You just aren’t hearing about them because they aren’t making a shitstorm on Twitter because they have better things to do with their time.

It’s the Left’s version of the 101st Chairborne.

226 klys  Apr 3, 2014 12:19:05pm

re: #225 GeneJockey

It’s the Left’s version of the 101st Chairborne.

I’m pretty sure that if Twitter had existed in the 50s and 60s, we’d find them there too.

227 gwangung  Apr 3, 2014 12:19:20pm

re: #225 GeneJockey

It’s the Left’s version of the 101st Chairborne.

Fraid it is.

228 iossarian  Apr 3, 2014 12:19:39pm

re: #219 Testy Toad T

It’s also much lighter weight, so transportation footprint is a lot smaller.

Cans are objectively superior to bottles when it comes to packaging and transporting beer.

Yay for beer! Is it the weekend already?

WHO’S WITH ME???

229 Lidane  Apr 3, 2014 12:19:57pm

re: #223 GeneJockey

No, it’s entirely by chance that they make voting more difficult for minorities.
///

I really wish the GOP would just give up the ghost and admit they hate voting. They should openly call for repealing every voting rights Constitutional amendment and the Voting Rights Act, and then offer a vaguely worded amendment that gives people one vote for every dollar they donate to a candidate.

It would be more honest than everything else on the right.

230 NJDhockeyfan  Apr 3, 2014 12:20:22pm

re: #220 GeneJockey

We used to have swordfish when I was a kid. Good stuff. Meaty, good flavor, not really fishy, even the dark meat. Sadly, overfished. Easy to do when you go for the top of the food chain.

They are good. I prefer tune steaks. It has a rich flavor and meaty texture. I love them cooked medium rare. So yummy.

231 CuriousLurker  Apr 3, 2014 12:20:30pm

re: #174 gwangung

One think I WILL criticize is that the role mass media plays in keeping people like Park in the spotlight. They immediately focus on the loud and binary thinkers, and latch onto their foibles and heterodoxy to emphasize conflict (which equals ratings).

Plenty of other Asian American activists who will criticize Colbert and do it gracefully and with nuance, but you will NEVER hear the mainstream media mention them, let alone interview them. (And nuance is something mainstream media is allergic to, like peanuts….)

This is true. When was the last time you saw a Muslim portrayed in a normal way in the media like “This is Ahmed. He owns a bakery. Look at these delicious cookies he makes. He’s happily married, respects his wife, encourages his children—including the girls—to be all they can be”? Never, right?

As you said, conflict equals ratings, so portraying Muslims as violent, dangerous, oppressive, etc. sells. The other part of this is that as long as there are some Muslims behaving badly, they’re going to get all the press.

It sucks, but that’s the way it works. People have to figure out a way to get around that, or to work within the system effectively.

232 klys  Apr 3, 2014 12:21:03pm

re: #231 CuriousLurker

This is true. When was the last time you saw a Muslim portrayed in a normal way in the media like “This is Ahmed. He owns a bakery. Look at these delicious cookies he makes. He’s happily married, respects his wife, encourages his children—including the girls—to be all they can be”? Never, right?

As you said conflict equals ratings, so portraying Muslims as violent, dangerous, oppressive, etc. sells. The other part of this is that as long as there are some Muslims behaving, they’re going to get all the press.

It sucks, but that’s the way it works. People have to figure out a way to get around that, or to work within the system effectively.

Or bitch repeatedly about outrage online.

233 GeneJockey  Apr 3, 2014 12:21:25pm

re: #208 Kragar

[Embedded content]

This has been another episode of simple answers to stupid people.

234 RealityBasedSteve  Apr 3, 2014 12:22:54pm

re: #230 NJDhockeyfan

They are good. I prefer tune steaks. It has a rich flavor and meaty texture. I love them cooked medium rare. So yummy.

I got spoiled on Halibut when I was stationed in Alaska. Army had a charter boat, we used to help cover the costs of somebody going down to it for a piece of the catch.

Grilled Halibut is hard to beat.

RBS

235 Floral Giraffe  Apr 3, 2014 12:23:14pm

re: #199 NJDhockeyfan

And make tasty eating!!! And good fighting fish!

236 Justanotherhuman  Apr 3, 2014 12:23:26pm

re: #222 klys

Can we please distinguish between actual activists and what’s happening here? Please?

Not all activists today are like this. Most of them are not. People are still out there, making a difference in the real world. You just aren’t hearing about them because they aren’t making a shitstorm on Twitter because they have better things to do with their time.

Yes, I understand this, and that’s why I don’t call many of those like Park “activitists”. I see them more as whining, money-grubbing interlopers than anything else. They won’t last, either, because they have no staying power.

After all, I could call myself anything in the world and get away with it online, it seems to me.

237 wrenchwench  Apr 3, 2014 12:23:29pm

re: #204 ObserverArt

Do you get the feeling Suey park is very aware of this and is using it?

And do you think Colbert deserves criticism over his whole bit on Dan Snyder and the Redskins. Would he have been better served to make it about his own ethnic group, or not do the bit at all?

Maybe he could have said he was going to start the White Honkies Foundation for Aggressive Invaders.

///

Actually, Colbert was criticizing his own ethnic group, fellow white dude Dan Snyder. That’s the nuanced, in-context view, anyway.

238 EPR-radar  Apr 3, 2014 12:23:40pm

re: #229 Lidane

I really wish the GOP would just give up the ghost and admit they hate voting. They should openly call for repealing every voting rights Constitutional amendment and the Voting Rights Act, and then offer a vaguely worded amendment that gives people one vote for every dollar they donate to a candidate.

It would be more honest than everything else on the right.

Since the days of the French Revolution, when “left” and “right” first entered the language of politics, the right has always opposed democracy.

The only exception is the use of demagoguery as a temporary tool to undermine more or less democratic systems.

239 jaunte  Apr 3, 2014 12:23:42pm

re: #221 Pie-onist Overlord

Just don’t mention closing down Sunday voting, eliminating polling stations near city centers, and all the other elements of the disenfranchisement push.

240 Pie-onist Overlord  Apr 3, 2014 12:23:44pm

What you need in order to vote in Texas.

A voter will be required to show one of the following forms of photo identification at the polling location before the voter will be permitted to cast a vote.

Texas driver license issued by the Texas Department of Public Safety (DPS)
Texas Election Identification Certificate issued by DPS
Texas personal identification card issued by DPS
Texas concealed handgun license issued by DPS
United States military identification card containing the person’s photograph
United States citizenship certificate containing the person’s photograph
United States passport

3. My ID is expired. Will it still work?

With the exception of the U.S. citizenship certificate, the identification must be current or have expired no more than 60 days before being presented for voter qualification at the polling place.

4. But what if a voter does not have any of these forms of photo ID? Are there any exceptions?

If a voter does not have a permanent disability exemption (addressed below) indicated on his or her voter registration certificate AND the voter does not have any of the photo identifications indicated above at the time of voting, the voter may cast a provisional ballot at the polls. However, in order to have the provisional ballot counted, the voter will be required to visit the voter registrar’s office within six calendar days of the date of the election to either present one of the above forms of photo ID OR submit one of the temporary affidavits addressed below (e.g., religious objection or natural disaster) in the presence of the county voter registrar while attesting to the fact that he or she does not have any of the required photo IDs.

241 GeneJockey  Apr 3, 2014 12:24:59pm

re: #229 Lidane

I really wish the GOP would just give up the ghost and admit they hate voting. They should openly call for repealing every voting rights Constitutional amendment and the Voting Rights Act, and then offer a vaguely worded amendment that gives people one vote for every dollar they donate to a candidate.

It would be more honest than everything else on the right.

Oh, tell me about it!

While I was on the Bowsite, I saw Conservatives argue for ending direct election of Senators; for returning to ‘only property owners can vote’; for allowing only veterans to vote; for allowing only people with income tax liability to vote; even very frankly for making it more difficult for people to register and vote.

They’d say, “It’s not a Democracy, it’s a Constitutional Republic!”, until some court would overrule a referendum they liked, then it was “Thwarting the Will of the People!”

242 Chrysicat  Apr 3, 2014 12:25:11pm

re: #210 Pie-onist Overlord

So anybody who belongs to whatever ethnic group can declare themselves an “activist” on Twitter and get a bunch of attention.

I could call myself a “furry trans activist” or a “transie furry activist” or a “babyfur activist” all I wanted to. I’d still have just under 300 followers. They need more than just to declare themself an activist, though it would seem all they need are initial connections I don’t have :-P

243 iossarian  Apr 3, 2014 12:25:27pm

re: #236 Justanotherhuman

After all, I could call myself anything in the world and get away with it online, it seems to me.

Reminds me of a gag from the British comedy show “Alas Smith and Jones” a few years back - the two protagonists are discussing the ins and outs of marrying a mail-order bride from Thailand:

“Sounds fair - so now you know what she looks like and she knows … what Robert Redford looks like.”

244 Killgore Trout  Apr 3, 2014 12:26:37pm

as long as the outrages keep working we’ll see more of them
Mozilla Co-Founder Brendan Eich Resigns as CEO, Leaves Foundation Board

245 JamesWI  Apr 3, 2014 12:26:50pm

re: #146 A Mom Anon

I’d also ask if the people upset with Colbert actually watched the entire segment, including Suey Park. There’s a huge lack of context missing from the discussion here ,IMO. I’ve heard more than one comparison of Colbert to Limbaugh in this mess and that’s just simply not true. Limbaugh is a sexist, racist asshole, Colbert isn’t.

Ms. Park is really young and really full of herself. She’s also managed to take all the discussion off American Indian issues and make it all about her. She doesn’t want allies? OK then, good luck with that, let’s see what you can accomplish going in that direction. Also too, Michelle Malkin has NEVER spoken up about Limbaugh’s nasty ass self, and he’s done more than one imitation of Asian people far more offensive than this mess with Colbert. The shit’s all over the internet, it’s not like he keeps his illness a secret.

If you go read the interview, it starts off with her basically saying she doesn’t care about context at all. Then she gets into her first bit of word-salad, which is when I stopped reading, so I actually missed the hilarious “OOOH, A BIRD!” part. That is how much attention this idiot deserves.

246 Floral Giraffe  Apr 3, 2014 12:26:53pm

OK, I am SO going to have fun with the “Republican Exit Survey” I just got in the mail!!!
Oh, and they only pay for the postage if I send it back to them!
*evil grin*

247 Chrysicat  Apr 3, 2014 12:28:06pm
248 klys  Apr 3, 2014 12:28:06pm

re: #240 Pie-onist Overlord

What you need in order to vote in Texas.

Those minorities are just blaming other people for their lack of initiative to go and get an ID. They should stop spending the money on booze and pot, they have a whole year to do it.

249 NJDhockeyfan  Apr 3, 2014 12:28:07pm

re: #234 RealityBasedSteve

I got spoiled on Halibut when I was stationed in Alaska. Army had a charter boat, we used to help cover the costs of somebody going down to it for a piece of the catch.

Grilled Halibut is hard to beat.

RBS

re: #234 RealityBasedSteve

I got spoiled on Halibut when I was stationed in Alaska. Army had a charter boat, we used to help cover the costs of somebody going down to it for a piece of the catch.

Grilled Halibut is hard to beat.

RBS

Is there a really good non-chain seafood restaurant around here?

250 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Apr 3, 2014 12:28:14pm

This is fucking awesome:

A guide to spotting bad science:

Image: Spotting-Bad-Science.png

251 GeneJockey  Apr 3, 2014 12:28:53pm

re: #244 Killgore Trout

as long as the outrages keep working we’ll see more of them
Mozilla Co-Founder Brendan Eich Resigns as CEO, Leaves Foundation Board

So, the Free Market works?

252 CuriousLurker  Apr 3, 2014 12:29:11pm

re: #232 klys

Or bitch repeatedly about outrage online.

Yeah, ‘cause griping about the griping is so much more prod… wait, what?

253 Kragar  Apr 3, 2014 12:30:03pm

re: #246 Floral Giraffe

OK, I am SO going to have fun with the “Republican Exit Survey” I just got in the mail!!!
Oh, and they only pay for the postage if I send it back to them!
*evil grin*

Is that what they mailed me? I might have to actually read that tonight. I was worn out when I got home last night

254 GeneJockey  Apr 3, 2014 12:30:12pm

re: #250 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

This is fucking awesome:

A guide to spotting bad science:

Image: Spotting-Bad-Science.png

Very good. Very true. So good, in fact, that I couldn’t read much of it without getting pissed off.

255 lawhawk  Apr 3, 2014 12:30:35pm

re: #250 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

Prime example of this was a single study involving 30 men, 10 as a control, that claimed a link between cell phone use and erectile dysfunction.

Screaming headline; the study itself? Full of qualifications, most notably the need for further large scale research to suss out whether there was actually anything there.

256 iossarian  Apr 3, 2014 12:30:37pm

re: #251 GeneJockey

So, the Free Market works?

It’s not really free when left/liberal issues drive the agenda. Then it’s evidence of nefarious OUTRAGE which is evil because blah blah blah.

257 klys  Apr 3, 2014 12:31:05pm

re: #251 GeneJockey

So, the Free Market works?

You forget, we’re not supposed to punish anyone for their beliefs. Free speech has no consequences.

///

258 Ryan King  Apr 3, 2014 12:31:25pm

re: #251 GeneJockey

So, the Free Market works?

Poor bigot CEO. Poor poor CEO.

259 GeneJockey  Apr 3, 2014 12:31:26pm

re: #247 Chrysicat

[Embedded content]

wingnut]If they wanted to vote, they should have gotten better jobs.[/wingnut]

260 JamesWI  Apr 3, 2014 12:31:35pm

re: #251 GeneJockey

So, the Free Market works?

I see in my time away, KT never got past his strange idea that protests and boycotts are horrible and stifle the free speech rights of bigots.

261 iossarian  Apr 3, 2014 12:31:40pm

re: #255 lawhawk

Prime example of this was a single study involving 30 men, 10 as a control, that claimed a link between cell phone use and erectile dysfunction.

Depends what you use the cell phone FOR.

/internal monologue

262 Chrysicat  Apr 3, 2014 12:31:50pm

re: #244 Killgore Trout

as long as the outrages keep working we’ll see more of them
Mozilla Co-Founder Brendan Eich Resigns as CEO, Leaves Foundation Board

You’d like to see the boss be someone who DONATES to discriminatory efforts?!? KT, your red is showing…

263 klys  Apr 3, 2014 12:32:05pm

re: #260 JamesWI

I see in my time away, KT never got past his strange idea that protests and boycotts are horrible and stifle the free speech rights of bigots.

Calling him out on this is tone policing, mind you.

264 Floral Giraffe  Apr 3, 2014 12:32:14pm

re: #253 Kragar

It’s pretty F’ing funny to respond to!

265 Killgore Trout  Apr 3, 2014 12:33:15pm

re: #251 GeneJockey

So, the Free Market works?

Companies are wary of controversy, it cuts into profits. As we’ve seen with the Colbert thing it can be used against anybody, regardless of political affiliation. If, for some reason social attitudes change, it can also be used against progressives for making political contributions or taking part in legitimate political activity.

266 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Apr 3, 2014 12:33:39pm

re: #254 GeneJockey

Very good. Very true. So good, in fact, that I couldn’t read much of it without getting pissed off.

That Japanese stem cell scientist angered the fuck out of me precisely because it was like, “Really, stem cells? You had to pick stem cells to lie about? And you had to lie about it in Nature, not, like, in the Shanghai Journal of Iffy Biological Practices?”

267 ObserverArt  Apr 3, 2014 12:33:51pm

re: #210 Pie-onist Overlord

So anybody who belongs to whatever ethnic group can declare themselves an “activist” on Twitter and get a bunch of attention.

re: #237 wrenchwench

Actually, Colbert was criticizing his own ethnic group, fellow white dude Dan Snyder. That’s the nuanced, in-context view, anyway.

Yes, but it seems the whole thing blew up out of his using his ‘Chinese Chararcter’ and if he had stuck within something mocking his own ethnic group.

Then he would only have pissed off white people!

No one gets off without being offended.

///

: )

268 jaunte  Apr 3, 2014 12:34:21pm

re: #251 GeneJockey

So, the Free Market works?

The poor guy might have to retire with several hundred million.

269 GeneJockey  Apr 3, 2014 12:34:23pm

re: #255 lawhawk

Prime example of this was a single study involving 30 men, 10 as a control, that claimed a link between cell phone use and erectile dysfunction.

Screaming headline; the study itself? Full of qualifications, most notably the need for further large scale research to suss out whether there was actually anything there.

THAT is my major gripe. It’s not always bad science. Often it’s atrocious presentation of good science.

270 Killgore Trout  Apr 3, 2014 12:34:38pm

re: #262 Chrysicat

You’d like to see the boss be someone who DONATES to discriminatory efforts?!? KT, your red is showing…

I support the rights of people I disagree with to engage in political activity.

271 Ryan King  Apr 3, 2014 12:34:44pm

re: #251 GeneJockey

So, the Free Market works?

Now that’s what I call a Happy Ending.

272 iossarian  Apr 3, 2014 12:34:56pm

re: #265 Killgore Trout

Companies are wary of controversy, it cuts into profits. As we’ve seen with the Colbert thing it can be used against anybody, regardless of political affiliation. If, for some reason social attitudes change, it can also be used against progressives for making political contributions or taking part in legitimate political activity.

It already is used against progressives, all the time, or did you miss that?

273 NJDhockeyfan  Apr 3, 2014 12:35:13pm

I just got this email. My wife wants to know when we can collect the money.

This is to inform you that you have email grant money of Eight hundred thousand USD for this month of 2014 sweepstakes which is organized by OUTLOOK, MSN & WINDOWS 8 LIVE INC. The MICROSOFT WINDOWS collects all the addresses of the people that are active online, among the millions that subscribed to Yahoo and Hotmail, Gmail we only select five people as our winners through electronic balloting System without the recipient applying, we salute you for being one of the people selected.
NOTE: FOR CLAIMS OF GRANT YOU MUST CONTACT THE EMAIL BELOW WITH YOUR INFORMATION TO OPEN YOUR CLAIMS FILE.
• Contact Email: (winx8@live.com)
1. FULL NAMES: 2. HOUSE ADDRESS:
3. OCCUPATION: 4. SEX: 5. AGE:
6. DIRECT PHONE NO: 7. STATE: 8. COUNTRY:
Thank you and accept my hearty congratulations once again!
Send Your Details to Contact Email Only: winx8@live.com

274 Ming  Apr 3, 2014 12:36:04pm

re: #59 FemNaziBitch

This situtation has me so confused.

Suey Park = anti white establishment/power etc.

Michelle Malkin = pro-white establishment/power etc.

no?

Well, I think that’s when they’re getting paid and on the air.

275 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Apr 3, 2014 12:36:38pm

re: #265 Killgore Trout

Companies are wary of controversy, it cuts into profits. As we’ve seen with the Colbert thing it can be used against anybody, regardless of political affiliation. If, for some reason social attitudes change, it can also be used against progressives for making political contributions or taking part in legitimate political activity.

But—and this is the bit that really seems to challenge you—being a segregationist is wrong, and being anti-segregationist is right.

The truth is not somewhere in the middle.

There are enormous areas of the US where the ‘social attitudes’ are still ‘gays are going to hell’, and in many, many areas, you can still simply directly fire someone for being gay.

I’d be unsurprised if, proud ignoramous you are, you didn’t actually know that, but it’s true.

Image: gaymap3.jpg

Acting as though the ‘social attitudes’ in this country are such that anti-gay bigots are the real victims, and things would have to change for ‘progressives’ to get it in the neck is just mindblowingly unreal.

276 Kragar  Apr 3, 2014 12:37:01pm

re: #273 NJDhockeyfan

I just got this email. My wife wants to know when we can collect the money.

Once you get a Nigerian Prince to sign off on it.

277 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Apr 3, 2014 12:37:07pm

re: #270 Killgore Trout

I support the rights of people I disagree with to engage in political activity.

His right to engage in political activity wasn’t abridged.

278 iossarian  Apr 3, 2014 12:37:13pm

God, it’s terrible that a CEO got the boot for being a bigot. Who knows, maybe in the future it might be really hard to get nominated to the Supreme Court if you’ve ever expressed the view that brown people get a shit deal from the current legal system.

What a load.

279 dog philosopher  Apr 3, 2014 12:37:19pm

I don’t want them on our side

ok well fuck you then

280 JamesWI  Apr 3, 2014 12:37:20pm

re: #270 Killgore Trout

I support the rights of people I disagree with to engage in political activity.

But you don’t support the rights of people who disagree with those people, to engage in their own political activity, by criticizing the people you disagree with.

That makes sense.

281 klys  Apr 3, 2014 12:37:42pm

re: #265 Killgore Trout

Companies are wary of controversy, it cuts into profits. As we’ve seen with the Colbert thing it can be used against anybody, regardless of political affiliation. If, for some reason social attitudes change, it can also be used against progressives for making political contributions or taking part in legitimate political activity.

You act like this is some new thing, that never would have occurred on the opposite side of the aisle, when how many chain e-mails were out there about the business owner firing the folks with Obama bumper stickers following the election? Granted, they weren’t true ones - but the RWNJs love the idea of it.

At what point are you willing to actually make a stand for human rights? I mean, I asked you this the other day: where would you draw the line and refuse to give your money to someone? You said it depends; what does it depend on? So far it seems to be that if it would cause you inconvenience and the cause doesn’t directly affect you, you won’t bother and nobody else should either.

282 RealityBasedSteve  Apr 3, 2014 12:38:13pm

re: #249 NJDhockeyfan

Is there a really good non-chain seafood restaurant around here?

Not that I’ve been able to find. :-(

RBS

283 Testy Toad T  Apr 3, 2014 12:38:20pm

re: #280 JamesWI

But you don’t support the rights of people who disagree with those people, to engage in their own political activity, by criticizing the people you disagree with.

That makes sense.

Political activity is reserved for the job creators.

Think twice next time you take your business to Michael’s rather than Hobby Lobby, you dirty peasant.

284 Justanotherhuman  Apr 3, 2014 12:40:43pm

re: #246 Floral Giraffe

OK, I am SO going to have fun with the “Republican Exit Survey” I just got in the mail!!!
Oh, and they only pay for the postage if I send it back to them!
*evil grin*

I’m registered “unaffiliated” and when I get unsolicited mail like that, I stuff the envelope (usually prepaid) with the rest of the junk mail and send it back to them.

285 Lidane  Apr 3, 2014 12:40:50pm

re: #281 klys

So far it seems to be that if it would cause you inconvenience and the cause doesn’t directly affect you, you won’t bother and nobody else should either.

Typical glibertarian dudebro FUCK YOU I GOT MINE attitude.

286 NJDhockeyfan  Apr 3, 2014 12:41:31pm

re: #282 RealityBasedSteve

Not that I’ve been able to find. :-(

RBS

My wife has been talking about Joes Crab Shack but I prefer to find a local seafood restaurant. I’ve work at both types of restaurants and the locally owned ones are always much better.

287 ObserverArt  Apr 3, 2014 12:41:34pm

Hey it just hit me. Colbert should have said the to help out White People he started the Tea Party.

And with that…I am slinking off. Later.

Don’t be too outraged, there is already enough to go around…

288 CuriousLurker  Apr 3, 2014 12:41:44pm

re: #263 klys

Calling him out on this is tone policing, mind you.

I have to admit I didn’t make it through the entire Salon article myself. The vocabulary that political activists to use makes my eyes glaze over, and when they use it in a shrill way that seeks to silence dissent, it pisses me off. That “tone-policed” thing made me gag, heh.

289 Chrysicat  Apr 3, 2014 12:42:52pm

re: #218 RealityBasedSteve

I guess that I’m just a bit surprised that they have the sail fully developed that small.

RBS

It’s what made me think that it was a photoshop for several minutes :-P

290 GeneJockey  Apr 3, 2014 12:43:50pm

re: #266 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

That Japanese stem cell scientist angered the fuck out of me precisely because it was like, “Really, stem cells? You had to pick stem cells to lie about? And you had to lie about it in Nature, not, like, in the Shanghai Journal of Iffy Biological Practices?”

When I was at Cornell, there was a graduate student named Mark Spector. He was every prof’s dream - worked 14 hours/day, had no social life, produced amazing results on an extremely hot topic. He linked tyrosine kinase cascades, oncogenes, and cancer all in a neat little package. After only two years, he was wrapping up his thesis, interviewing for tenured positions at MIT and other top rank universities, and there were whispers of Nobel prizes.

It was all completely made up. He spent those 14hrs a day concocting his results.

The crazy thing about it is that one of the cornerstones of Science is reproducibility. He cannot have expected to get away with it, any more than Rosey Ruiz could expect to get away with ‘winning’ the Boston marathon. But he did it anyway.

Months after he was exposed, we heard he was living in the Israel House at Cornell, telling everyone he’d been framed by an antisemitic German professor.

291 Lidane  Apr 3, 2014 12:45:07pm
292 GeneJockey  Apr 3, 2014 12:45:49pm

re: #277 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

His right to engage in political activity wasn’t abridged.

Indeed! Free speech does not equal consequence-free-speech.

293 TedStriker  Apr 3, 2014 12:46:46pm

re: #121 Kragar

Wow, Pat Dollard is even more of a psychotic bastard than I realized:

He really does fancy himself as the conservative, war-blogging version of Hunter S. Thompson, doesn’t he/

294 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Apr 3, 2014 12:46:49pm

To be clear, if this dude had just been a programmer at Mozilla, I’d think it’d be very shitty to fire him.

But when you’re the CEO, or the director of policy, or the head of HR, this is the kind of shit that actually matters in the performance of your job.

And the main reason that companies care about this is not because of fear of boycotts—Mozilla is a nonprofit—but because of hiring talent. Having a CEO who’s publically bigoted against 10% of the population severely cuts into your ability to hire the best and the brightest.

Beyond that, it’s so that if their CEO has to meet with, say, Chris Hughes, there won’t be this awkward thing of “Oh, yeah, our CEO is bigoted against who you are but that’s not going to affect this meeting, right?”

Having ‘not being a bigot’ as a requirement for CEO is a good thing.

295 GeneJockey  Apr 3, 2014 12:48:22pm

re: #121 Kragar

Wow, Pat Dollard is even more of a psychotic bastard than I realized:

Whoa.

296 Killgore Trout  Apr 3, 2014 12:48:52pm

re: #280 JamesWI

But you don’t support the rights of people who disagree with those people, to engage in their own political activity, by criticizing the people you disagree with.

That makes sense.

The difference is that I’m not advocating those that disagree with me be punished or prohibited from employment for their opinion.

297 EPR-radar  Apr 3, 2014 12:49:20pm

re: #288 CuriousLurker

I have to admit I didn’t make it through the entire Salon article myself. The vocabulary that political activists to use makes my eyes glaze over, and when they use it in a shrill way that seeks to silence dissent, it pisses me off. That “tone-policed” thing made me gag, heh.

You didn’t miss much. It takes more effort to go though this than through normal wingnut nonsense because there are some valid points buried under her various obnoxious excesses of language.

298 Lidane  Apr 3, 2014 12:50:59pm

re: #296 Killgore Trout

Nah. You just prefer the more direct approach of pepper spray and billy clubs.

299 GeneJockey  Apr 3, 2014 12:51:26pm

re: #296 Killgore Trout

The difference is that I’m not advocating those that disagree with me be punished or prohibited from employment for their opinion.

He’s not prohibited employment. The CEO is the face a company shows the world. The company has the right to make sure that face represents it as it wishes to be represented.

300 GeneJockey  Apr 3, 2014 12:52:33pm

re: #291 Lidane

[Embedded content]

Schadenfreude will go well with my sandwich and apples for lunch.

301 William Barnett-Lewis  Apr 3, 2014 12:52:40pm

re: #244 Killgore Trout

Yes, how horrific that the right thing happened. All your trolling on it was in vain.

302 wrenchwench  Apr 3, 2014 12:53:03pm

re: #296 Killgore Trout

The difference is that I’m not advocating those that disagree with me be punished or prohibited from employment for their opinion.

I support the right of Mozilla’s board to request the resignation of a bigot who is harming the company.

303 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Apr 3, 2014 12:53:44pm

re: #296 Killgore Trout

The difference is that I’m not advocating those that disagree with me be punished or prohibited from employment for their opinion.

He’s not prohibited from employment. Being a bigot against gay people actually makes him a worse CEO. What is it you don’t grasp about this?

304 Targetpractice  Apr 3, 2014 12:53:53pm

re: #291 Lidane

[Embedded content]

No honor among thieves.

305 klys  Apr 3, 2014 12:55:02pm

re: #299 GeneJockey

He’s not prohibited employment. The CEO is the face a company shows the world. The company has the right to make sure that face represents it as it wishes to be represented.

And people have a right to choose not to support that company if the face they have chosen to represent themselves is not consistent with one’s principles.

We chose to switch vets after we discovered that the practice owner made a donation to the pro-prop 8 campaign in the name of the clinic, even though we saw a different vet at the practice. It was hard, because we knew our vet and most of the staff there *didn’t* support it, but because it was done in the name of the clinic, we couldn’t continue to have our money indirectly supporting bigotry that we are both vehemently against.

306 Lidane  Apr 3, 2014 12:55:43pm

re: #299 GeneJockey

He’s not prohibited employment. The CEO is the face a company shows the world. The company has the right to make sure that face represents it as it wishes to be represented.

Oh, but didn’t you know? The CEO of Mozilla will never, ever be able to find a job ever again. He’s going to be unemployed and die homeless and in the streets now.

I mean, the guy only invented JavaScript and co-founded Mozilla. Clearly he has no marketable skills to offer anybody ever again.

307 GeneJockey  Apr 3, 2014 12:56:11pm

re: #296 Killgore Trout

The difference is that I’m not advocating those that disagree with me be punished or prohibited from employment for their opinion.

I guess I’d ask at what point does an opinion get so odious that you WOULD support his being fired for it.

Suppose we were talking about Pat Dollard, for example. Suppose instead of being…whatever it is he is, he were the CEO of Mozilla, and posted his ‘Kill all the MOOOOZlims’ tweet?

308 Decatur Deb  Apr 3, 2014 12:56:26pm

re: #302 wrenchwench

I support the right of Mozilla’s board to request the resignation of a bigot who is harming the company.

CEOs should form a union.

309 Justanotherhuman  Apr 3, 2014 12:56:40pm

re: #297 EPR-radar

You didn’t miss much. It takes more effort to go though this than through normal wingnut nonsense because there are some valid points buried under her various obnoxious excesses of language.

No one should have to dig 6 ft under to find those “valid points”, though. : )

310 GeneJockey  Apr 3, 2014 12:57:00pm

re: #308 Decatur Deb

CEOs should form a union.

They have one. It’s called Boards of Directors.

311 Ryan King  Apr 3, 2014 12:57:48pm

re: #277 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

His right to engage in political activity wasn’t abridged.

He lost nothing. He’s free to go get another job.

Just like people are free to go get another job if they get fired for being gay, or if minimum wage isn’t good enough.

312 Internet Tough Guy  Apr 3, 2014 12:57:56pm

re: #310 GeneJockey

They have one. It’s called Boards of Directors the Republican Party.

313 EPR-radar  Apr 3, 2014 12:58:47pm

re: #305 klys

As I recall, there was a court case in CA over disclosure of the proposition 8 donors, which the pro-8 side lost. They squealed like stuck pigs at this verdict.

How unfortunate to be publicly outed as a bigot. //

314 goddamnedfrank  Apr 3, 2014 12:59:14pm

Again, this entire ordeal is basically about literalist thinkers vs. abstract thinkers and the different ways they interpret data. Abstract thinkers look at the 10 years of Colbert’s established personality and the 25 years of Limbaugh doing his shit and judge the statements of these two men very differently because of the established context they’ve built up.

Literal thinkers see the words and enforce a strict meaning. Certain not so true “truisms” in this society don’t help, so all men being equal means Colbert and Limbaugh shouldn’t be able to get away with the same kinds of statements, totally ignoring intent and meaning.

Which one is Suey Park? I think she’s actually an abstract thinker, but that this was mostly cynically about self promotion. I believe her when she said she was playing to a role, emulating Kanye West. Because she’d decided in advance that she wouldn’t be taken seriously she said she decided to perform as a kind of caricature of herself, to make unreasonable demands to advance the narrative. She, to put it in George Bush terms, catapulted the propaganda.

The problem, aside from her youth, disinhibition, and apparent distain for certain people because of how they were born, is that she doesn’t have the one advantage Colbert has, consistency. She’s a very inconsistent personality and pathologically manipulative. Her “followers” are themselves often prone to hyperliteralist thinking in a world with twisted and counter intuitive rules, where it’s an established “fact” that intent doesn’t matter.

315 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Apr 3, 2014 12:59:16pm

re: #306 Lidane

Oh, but didn’t you know? The CEO of Mozilla will never, ever be able to find a job ever again. He’s going to be unemployed and die homeless and in the streets now.

I mean, the guy only invented JavaScript and co-founded Mozilla. Clearly he has no marketable skills to offer anybody ever again.

If he had even just said, “Look, I made that donation in 2008. Since then, my feelings on gay people have evolved, and this doesn’t represent who I am now. Whatever my personal feelings are, I do not support prop 8.” it would have been fine. He doesn’t even have to mean it, it can be ‘the racist tree’, and it’d be fine.

He can start his own company and hire libertarian anti-gay dudebros and be happy there.

Mozilla staff also protested his appointment. This wasn’t a purely external thing, by any means.

316 EPR-radar  Apr 3, 2014 12:59:59pm

re: #309 Justanotherhuman

No one should have to dig 6 ft under to find those “valid points”, though. : )

Absolutely. I’m no fan of the obscurantist cant Park was serving up in that interview.

317 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Apr 3, 2014 1:00:17pm

re: #311 Ryan King

He lost nothing. He’s free to go get another job.

Just like people are free to go get another job if they get fired for being gay, or if minimum wage isn’t good enough.

If people are fired for being gay, they’re fired for something about themselves they can’t change. In this case, he was fired asked to resign for bigotry, which is an aspect of himself he can change.

Do you not see those as different? Being gay is the same as being bigoted towards gay people, in terms of personal responsibility?

318 JamesWI  Apr 3, 2014 1:01:29pm

re: #296 Killgore Trout

The difference is that I’m not advocating those that disagree with me be punished or prohibited from employment for their opinion.

Ah, I see. It’s just that your comprehension of free speech is on the same level of a Duck Dynasty fan.

“No one should ever be punished for things they say!”

Maybe if we get one of those vaunted fact-checking sites to come out and say “The things you say/do might have consequences,” you’ll finally understand.

319 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Apr 3, 2014 1:01:41pm

re: #314 goddamnedfrank

Her association with Malkin makes sense. She resembles her, and Ann Coulter, who many people have accused of just playing an act. It always weirds me out because I just can’t imagine living that way, of having that be so much of your public face, this insane, horrible person.

320 TedStriker  Apr 3, 2014 1:01:47pm

re: #174 gwangung

One think I WILL criticize is that the role mass media plays in keeping people like Park in the spotlight. They immediately focus on the loud and binary thinkers, and latch onto their foibles and heterodoxy to emphasize conflict (which equals ratings).

Plenty of other Asian American activists who will criticize Colbert and do it gracefully and with nuance, but you will NEVER hear the mainstream media mention them, let alone interview them. (And nuance is something mainstream media is allergic to, like peanuts….)

Loud, obnoxious, and fact-free sells in today’s media and Park is riding it for all that’s worth.

321 GeneJockey  Apr 3, 2014 1:01:58pm

re: #317 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

If people are fired for being gay, they’re fired for something about themselves they can’t change. In this case, he was fired for bigotry, which is an aspect of himself he can change.

Do you not see those as different? Being gay is the same as being bigoted towards gay people, in terms of personal responsibility?

I suspect this was meant satirically.

322 CuriousLurker  Apr 3, 2014 1:02:15pm

re: #297 EPR-radar

You didn’t miss much. It takes more effort to go though this than through normal wingnut nonsense because there are some valid points buried under her various obnoxious excesses of language.

That’s her big mistake, IMO. That whole “in your face/FU, I don’t care” attitude is pretty much guaranteed to make some people—who might otherwise be allies—respond with, “Okay, FU too” and just walk away without bothering to look for the buried valid points.

I mean, we each have our own areas of concern, right? For me it’s Muslims, Hispanics, and women. Because of my own experiences, I would naturally be sympathetic to other minorities, but if an activist for one of them strikes me as intolerant or snarlingly aggressive, then I’m done—I’m not gonna waste my time digging when I have my own issues that concern me.

323 A Mom Anon  Apr 3, 2014 1:02:27pm

re: #256 iossarian

How is taking a stand for the civil rights of gay people an “outrage”? That word is seriously overused by some people so it has no freaking meaning anymore. And somehow, I think Mr. Mozilla isn’t going to end up homeless or sacrificing much, call it a hunch.

324 goddamnedfrank  Apr 3, 2014 1:03:00pm

re: #316 EPR-radar

Absolutely. I’m no fan of the obscurantist cant Park was serving up in that interview.

She’s not interest in either dialog or genuine, honest communication with outsiders. All those words are a shibboleth, with meanings or nuance to those meanings that are often one sided or enormously counter-intuitive.

325 Killgore Trout  Apr 3, 2014 1:03:36pm

re: #307 GeneJockey

I guess I’d ask at what point does an opinion get so odious that you WOULD support his being fired for it.

Suppose we were talking about Pat Dollard, for example. Suppose instead of being…whatever it is he is, he were the CEO of Mozilla, and posted his ‘Kill all the MOOOOZlims’ tweet?

Dollard’s comment would probably considered incitement. Although he might not be charged it’s probably illegal and certainly dangerous. If he were the CEO I would join the calls for his removal.

326 klys  Apr 3, 2014 1:03:37pm

re: #307 GeneJockey

I guess I’d ask at what point does an opinion get so odious that you WOULD support his being fired for it.

Suppose we were talking about Pat Dollard, for example. Suppose instead of being…whatever it is he is, he were the CEO of Mozilla, and posted his ‘Kill all the MOOOOZlims’ tweet?

Do you patronize a diner with a “whites only” sign during the era of segregation?

Do you buy products from German companies in the late 1930s?

There’s so much low-hanging fruit here that could be used for examples, and none of it is answered.

327 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Apr 3, 2014 1:03:40pm

re: #321 GeneJockey

I suspect this was meant satirically.

Possibly. Sorry, Ryan. I just read fifty pages of Bourdieu and the whimsy has been beaten out of me.

328 Eventual Carrion  Apr 3, 2014 1:04:21pm

re: #91 NJDhockeyfan

BIG ALUMINUM CAN BANKS ARE RIPPING US OFF!!

[Embedded content]

Pretty much, yeah. Buying up the supply, storing it so it isn’t available on the market. Price goes up substantially until they decide they will make the killing they want, sell at that high price. It is business as usual.

329 wrenchwench  Apr 3, 2014 1:04:29pm

re: #327 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

Possibly. Sorry, Ryan. I just read fifty pages of Bourdieu and the whimsy has been beaten out of me.

Have some whimsy.

330 Feline Fearless Leader  Apr 3, 2014 1:05:01pm

re: #252 CuriousLurker

Yeah, ‘cause griping about the griping is so much more prod… wait, what?

She is just there for an argument. See, she paid her five pounds!
///

331 Ryan King  Apr 3, 2014 1:05:19pm

re: #317 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

If people are fired for being gay, they’re fired for something about themselves they can’t change. In this case, he was fired asked to resign for bigotry, which is an aspect of himself he can change.

Do you not see those as different? Being gay is the same as being bigoted towards gay people, in terms of personal responsibility?

Yes, they are very different.

332 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Apr 3, 2014 1:05:28pm

re: #330 Feline Fearless Leader

She is just there for an argument. See, she paid her five pounds!
///

No she didn’t.

333 Dr Lizardo  Apr 3, 2014 1:05:28pm

re: #319 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

Her association with Malkin makes sense. She resembles her, and Ann Coulter, who many people have accused of just playing an act. It always weirds me out because I just can’t imagine living that way, of having that be so much of your public face, this insane, horrible person.

Aaron McGruder took Ann Coulter down pretty well, in my opinion.

(Caution: Strong Language)

Youtube Video

334 GeneJockey  Apr 3, 2014 1:05:45pm

re: #326 klys

Do you patronize a diner with a “whites only” sign during the era of segregation?

Do you buy products from German companies in the late 1930s?

There’s so much low-hanging fruit here that could be used for examples, and none of it is answered.

See KT’s response to my post. We have at least established that there is a floor.

335 Decatur Deb  Apr 3, 2014 1:05:53pm

re: #330 Feline Fearless Leader

She is just there for an argument. See, she paid her five pounds!
///

I think 5 pounds just gets you abuse.

336 EPR-radar  Apr 3, 2014 1:06:41pm

re: #324 goddamnedfrank

She’s not interest in either dialog or genuine, honest communication with outsiders. All those words are a shibboleth, with meanings or nuance to those meanings that are often one sided or enormously counter-intuitive.

And she is appallingly naive. The question about the wisdom of blowing off any possible white allies by being obnoxious was blown off with the observation that whites will soon not be a majority in the US.

Like that by itself will change anything at all. She’s being an idiot.

337 Lidane  Apr 3, 2014 1:06:51pm
338 GeneJockey  Apr 3, 2014 1:07:12pm

re: #332 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

No she didn’t.

See? Whimsy grows back.

339 CuriousLurker  Apr 3, 2014 1:07:42pm

Gah, work interrupts. BBL

340 klys  Apr 3, 2014 1:08:09pm

re: #334 GeneJockey

See KT’s response to my post. We have at least established that there is a floor.

Yeah, although apparently it seems to be based on illegality and not the bigotry inherent in the tweet.

341 JamesWI  Apr 3, 2014 1:09:10pm

re: #325 Killgore Trout

Dollard’s comment would probably considered incitement. Although he might not be charged it’s probably illegal and certainly dangerous. If he were the CEO I would join the calls for his removal.

But Dollard was just EXPRESSING HIS OPINION that Muslims deserve death!!! How could you possibly call for him to be punished for EXPRESSING HIS OPINION???? Do you hate free speech????

342 iossarian  Apr 3, 2014 1:09:28pm

re: #323 A Mom Anon

How is taking a stand for the civil rights of gay people an “outrage”? That word is seriously overused by some people so it has no freaking meaning anymore. And somehow, I think Mr. Mozilla isn’t going to end up homeless or sacrificing much, call it a hunch.

I often fail to use sarcasm marks in my posts. There is no outrage here, in my view. Guy got fired for apparently unapologetically holding views that are regarded as bigoted.

343 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Apr 3, 2014 1:10:30pm

re: #331 Ryan King

Yes, they are very different.

Yeah, see above, sorry.

Here’s what I had to read just before this, so you’ll understand why I was misreading so clunkily:

“The recognition (or as the art historians say when using the vocabulary of logic, the attribution) proceeds by successive elimination of the possibilities to which the class is—negatively—related and to which the possibility which as become a reality in the work concerned belongs…

This reference may be implicit and tacit, through what Husserl calls protention and retention, practical forms of prospection or retrospective without a positing of the future and the past as such…”

Etc.

The achey thing about it is he is actually saying interesting stuff he just so badly needs to read Politics of the English Language.

Anyway, sorry.

344 wrenchwench  Apr 3, 2014 1:10:56pm

re: #50 gwangung

I don’t think anyone has covered themselves in glory in this discussion. There’s been some real problematic posts and tweets that attacked Park on irrelevant grounds that were out and out racist and sexist. There’s also been some flamage and salvoes directed at folks who’ve been activists (meaning actually getting some social change done) for years and years and whose stand on the issues shouldn’t have been questioned.

aranamama.com

The link at your link finally went live.

345 GeneJockey  Apr 3, 2014 1:11:05pm

SHIT!! I left my lunch on the kitchen counter at home and I have to prepare for a meeting I’m supposed to be running in 50 minutes on an empty stomach, and I won’t be able to eat before 3:00!!!

346 klys  Apr 3, 2014 1:11:26pm

re: #345 GeneJockey

>SHIT!! I left my lunch on the kitchen counter at home and I have to prepare for a meeting I’m supposed to be running in 50 minutes on an empty stomach, and I won’t be able to eat before 3:00!!!

OUTRAGE!!!

347 EPR-radar  Apr 3, 2014 1:11:41pm

re: #343 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

My condolences. That is dreadful to read.

348 GeneJockey  Apr 3, 2014 1:12:36pm

re: #346 klys

OUTRAGE!!!

Outrageous outrage!

349 ObserverArt  Apr 3, 2014 1:12:37pm

re: #302 wrenchwench

I support the right of Mozilla’s board to request the resignation of a bigot who is harming the company.

Didn’t he resign on his own? Sorry if this has already been pointed out. I stepped away for a bit.

350 Feline Fearless Leader  Apr 3, 2014 1:12:47pm

re: #290 GeneJockey

When I was at Cornell, there was a graduate student named Mark Spector. He was every prof’s dream - worked 14 hours/day, had no social life, produced amazing results on an extremely hot topic. He linked tyrosine kinase cascades, oncogenes, and cancer all in a neat little package. After only two years, he was wrapping up his thesis, interviewing for tenured positions at MIT and other top rank universities, and there were whispers of Nobel prizes.

It was all completely made up. He spent those 14hrs a day concocting his results.

The crazy thing about it is that one of the cornerstones of Science is reproducibility. He cannot have expected to get away with it, any more than Rosey Ruiz could expect to get away with ‘winning’ the Boston marathon. But he did it anyway.

Months after he was exposed, we heard he was living in the Israel House at Cornell, telling everyone he’d been framed by an antisemitic German professor.

I’m not surprised actually. How often do you see cases like this where after some massively self-destructive action (or course of action) a person settles into total denial and victimhood? It just seems that their ego is not going to admit the error and that the damage is self-inflicted. And also, what do they have to lose career-wise at that point?

351 iossarian  Apr 3, 2014 1:12:50pm

re: #343 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

French intellectuals - you can’t do anything about it.

In my view it’s a big problem with 20th-century French thought - the accepted notion that textual complexity is a sign of deep thinking.

352 GeneJockey  Apr 3, 2014 1:13:19pm

re: #347 EPR-radar

My condolences. That is dreadful to read.

Imagine if the author speaks like that.

353 darthstar  Apr 3, 2014 1:13:26pm

Suey makes Greenwald sound intelligent by comparison.

354 GeneJockey  Apr 3, 2014 1:13:53pm

re: #349 ObserverArt

Didn’t he resign on his own? Sorry if this has already been pointed out. I stepped away for a bit.

We call that ‘resigning to seek other opportunities’.

355 Targetpractice  Apr 3, 2014 1:14:24pm

re: #337 Lidane

[Embedded content]

“War on Men”? That’s like the “War on Christians” or the “War on White People,” the only people convinced it’s happening are the ones with the most to lose.

356 GeneJockey  Apr 3, 2014 1:14:40pm

re: #350 Feline Fearless Leader

I’m not surprised actually. How often do you see cases like this where after some massively self-destructive action (or course of action) a person settles into total denial and victimhood? It just seems that their ego is not going to admit the error and that the damage is self-inflicted. And also, what do they have to lose career-wise at that point?

I think he was just a sociopath.

357 Floral Giraffe  Apr 3, 2014 1:15:24pm

re: #290 GeneJockey

My nephews BFF was at Cornell & commited suicide Monday. I am struggling, trying to help.

358 Testy Toad T  Apr 3, 2014 1:15:37pm

re: #351 iossarian

French intellectuals - you can’t do anything about it.

In my view it’s a big problem with 20th-century French thought - the accepted notion that textual complexity is a sign of deep thinking.

The purpose of writing is to communicate.

Intentional bloated obfuscation is the mark of someone who wants to be kicked in the nose.

359 wrenchwench  Apr 3, 2014 1:15:58pm

re: #349 ObserverArt

Didn’t he resign on his own? Sorry if this has already been pointed out. I stepped away for a bit.

I don’t know for sure, but I read that he had no plans to not long before he did. Something interceded.

360 klys  Apr 3, 2014 1:16:00pm

re: #348 GeneJockey

Outrageous outrage!

I am having the leftover quinoa and chicken sausage dish that I made up last night. A good first iteration, needs work. My first time cooking quinoa and I am not sure I got the consistency I wanted. Need more practice.

361 Killgore Trout  Apr 3, 2014 1:16:14pm

re: #334 GeneJockey

See KT’s response to my post. We have at least established that there is a floor.

Of course there is, I’ve been through this conversation here many times before. I think the technique of getting people fired is used way too broadly and the environment of fear it creates is stifling to the free exchange of ideas and our democratic process. In the case of Prop 8, enough people voted for it to pass. According to Wikipedia over 7 million people voted for it. What are those people thinking now? Worried that internet activist might get them fired? What if their boss or coworkers find out? This kind of thing to too extreme and stifles legitimate participation in our democracy. If anything it makes me reconsider my opinion that political donations should be public knowledge. If people use social pressure against minority opinions effectively enough it can be damaging to society.

362 klys  Apr 3, 2014 1:16:42pm

re: #357 Floral Giraffe

My nephews BFF was at Cornell & commited suicide Monday. I am struggling, trying to help.

{{FG}}

363 Killgore Trout  Apr 3, 2014 1:17:58pm

re: #360 klys

I am having the leftover quinoa and chicken sausage dish that I made up last night. A good first iteration, needs work. My first time cooking quinoa and I am not sure I got the consistency I wanted. Need more practice.

Toast the quinoa in a dry pan first. To me it smells like baking bread, helps the consistency and flavor greatly.

364 Decatur Deb  Apr 3, 2014 1:18:09pm

re: #357 Floral Giraffe

My nephews BFF was at Cornell & commited suicide Monday. I am struggling, trying to help.

Send a bottle. (unless he has abuse problems)

365 b.d.  Apr 3, 2014 1:18:31pm

re: #357 Floral Giraffe

I am sorry Floral Giraffe, I wish peace.

366 dog philosopher  Apr 3, 2014 1:20:21pm

imho this women is young and over educated, and this has led her to over-think the whole situation

thus, she has developed a sophisticated special vocabulary and an elaborate and difficult to follow rationale for being rude and a punk

367 iossarian  Apr 3, 2014 1:20:49pm

re: #361 Killgore Trout

I can’t believe how tone-deaf this is. For years, gay people have worried that if people “find out”, they might get *killed*.

And now you’re upset because some people who voted for a bigoted law might be afraid that some unspecified disadvantage might befall them, when the only example of such so far is a CEO losing his job due in large part to the considerable opposition *within the company he is meant to be running* to his appointment.

This absolutist view of “free speech” (which as we see every day is in fact far more free for some than for others) is just mind-boggling, and frankly it’s one of the main reasons why, for a democracy, America is remarkably resistant to the adoption social policies that would actually benefit the majority of its population.

It sucks.

368 klys  Apr 3, 2014 1:20:54pm

re: #361 Killgore Trout

Of course there is, I’ve been through this conversation here many times before. I think the technique of getting people fired is used way too broadly and the environment of fear it creates is stifling to the free exchange of ideas and our democratic process. In the case of Prop 8, enough people voted for it to pass. According to Wikipedia over 7 million people voted for it. What are those people thinking now? Worried that internet activist might get them fired? What if their boss or coworkers find out? This kind of thing to too extreme and stifles legitimate participation in our democracy. If anything it makes me reconsider my opinion that political donations should be public knowledge. If people use social pressure against minority opinions effectively enough it can be damaging to society.

Do you think all ideas are equally valid?

Do you think there should be no social pressure against things like racism and sexism?

369 ObserverArt  Apr 3, 2014 1:20:59pm

re: #313 EPR-radar

As I recall, there was a court case in CA over disclosure of the proposition 8 donors, which the pro-8 side lost. They squealed like stuck pigs at this verdict.

How unfortunate to be publicly outed as a bigot. //

They don’t see themselves as bigoted if they frame their thinking under their religious beliefs. Can there be a more perfect reason for the separation of church and state, and a better example of ‘conservatives’ not conserving the Constitution?

370 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Apr 3, 2014 1:21:07pm

re: #361 Killgore Trout

Of course there is, I’ve been through this conversation here many times before

You’ve actually just done your usual and dodged this question many times, while saying dishonest things, like:

. I think the technique of getting people fired is used way too broadly and the environment of fear it creates is stifling to the free exchange of ideas and our democratic process.

Name a few others who have ‘gotten fired’.

In the case of Prop 8, enough people voted for it to pass. According to Wikipedia over 7 million people voted for it. What are those people thinking now? Worried that internet activist might get them fired? What if their boss or coworkers find out?

Again pretending that “CEO” is like being an ordinary worker. This is just obviously, fatuously wrong, and makes you look like a moron, but you continue with it. Why? Do you think people, in general, are so dumb that they’ll go “Yeah, the comparison between an ordinary worker and the CEO does make sense.

This kind of thing to too extreme and stifles legitimate participation in our democracy. If anything it makes me reconsider my opinion that political donations should be public knowledge. If people use social pressure against minority opinions effectively enough it can be damaging to society.

Performance art. Masterfully done: right after a horrible decision about money as speech, you double down as money not just as speech, but as extraordinarly protected, extremely private speech even though it has public effect. 10/10, nobody but you could make yourself look like this much of a tool.

371 EPR-radar  Apr 3, 2014 1:21:41pm

re: #361 Killgore Trout

The vote was by secret ballot and will remain secret. What has been made public are the big donors to both sides of the issue, per normal CA procedures.

Conflating the voters with the big donors is a dishonest move.

372 TedStriker  Apr 3, 2014 1:22:03pm

re: #193 GeneJockey

FWIW, I think Suey Park is entitled to her own reactions, but we’re also entitled to our reactions to her.

Perhaps I’m being harsh, but when I read

I think - This person is an idiot. She’s no better than any other racist idiot, whether or not she might occasionally stumble across a valid point.

Knowing that she’s an idiot, and apparently an attention whore, I find myself having to fight to avoid discounting VALID voices making some of the same points. Honestly, she does damage to their cause, by making it easy for folks to point to her and say, “See what idiots these Politically Correct’ lefties are?”

DING DING DING

As a white male, I don’t have a problem ‘Suey Park’ being a Asian-American female, I have a problem with her because her manufactured outrageous outrage that’s she’s milking for all of the fame and attention (and money) that it’s worth is sucking all of the oxygen out of ‘legitimate’ arguments and beefs.

For a prime example of that, one has to look no further than what the Colbert Report show tweet in question was skewering to begin with (Dan Snyder’s obvious pandering and patronizing to Native Americans and his steadfast refusal to consider a renaming of the Redskins). Notice that the discussion about the original subject has been completely drowned out and just about forgotten in all of this.

373 dog philosopher  Apr 3, 2014 1:22:08pm

re: #351 iossarian

French intellectuals - you can’t do anything about it.

In my view it’s a big problem with 20th-century French thought - the accepted notion that textual complexity is a sign of deep thinking.

roger that

one of the best benefits of a good college education is the ability to say “yeah actually i followed you all the way through that and i still think you’re full of shit”

374 Lidane  Apr 3, 2014 1:22:49pm
375 iossarian  Apr 3, 2014 1:22:53pm

“This technique of getting people fired is used far too broadly…”

Utter bullshit.

376 Feline Fearless Leader  Apr 3, 2014 1:25:12pm

re: #335 Decatur Deb

I think 5 pounds just gets you abuse.

If she is sensitive than asking her about 5 pounds might well get you some abuse!
;p j/k

377 Bubblehead II  Apr 3, 2014 1:25:38pm

re: #349 ObserverArt

Didn’t he resign on his own? Sorry if this has already been pointed out. I stepped away for a bit.

“She (Baker) said that Eich — who created the JavaScript programming language, among other prominent computing achievements — had not been forced to resign by her or others on its board, which includes prominent Silicon Valley entrepreneur and investor Reid Hoffman.”

Probably one of those situations where you aren’t asked to quit, but are strongly encouraged to.

378 Lidane  Apr 3, 2014 1:26:37pm
379 Killgore Trout  Apr 3, 2014 1:26:53pm

re: #368 klys

Do you think all ideas are equally valid?

no

Do you think there should be no social pressure against things like racism and sexism?

no

380 Lidane  Apr 3, 2014 1:27:49pm

re: #377 Bubblehead II

Probably one of those situations where you aren’t asked to quit, but are strongly encouraged to.

“We’ll gladly take your resignation by the end of the week. You know, if you’d like to offer it.”

381 Kragar  Apr 3, 2014 1:28:29pm

I swear, I get more random BS tweets from morons pissed off at the fact I say I’m agnostic than anything else.

382 Lidane  Apr 3, 2014 1:28:54pm

Rebranding!

383 klys  Apr 3, 2014 1:30:13pm

re: #379 Killgore Trout

no

no

So in your view, what kinds of social pressure are acceptable to use against minority opinions like bigotry?

384 Timothy Watson  Apr 3, 2014 1:31:28pm

OFFS, this is why everyone mocks people on the (center) left. You didn’t watch the fucking segment but, somehow, you know it’s offensive/racist? And you explain yourself using words that only people who majored in gender studies use?

385 Lidane  Apr 3, 2014 1:32:30pm

re: #383 klys

So in your view, what kinds of social pressure are acceptable to use against minority opinions like bigotry?

None of them, obviously. Can’t boycott a company with a bigoted CEO. Can’t allow the employees of said company to protest their own CEO, either. That’s just unfair punishment.

////

386 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Apr 3, 2014 1:32:34pm

re: #384 Timothy Watson

OFFS, this is why everyone mocks people on the (center) left.

The people complaining aren’t on the center left.

387 Decatur Deb  Apr 3, 2014 1:32:41pm

re: #383 klys

So in your view, what kinds of social pressure are acceptable to use against minority opinions like bigotry?

Any nutcase teapartier on my block can go to the FEC website and see to the dollar what we gave to Obama. I’m not worried about mozilla-boy’s outcomes.

388 ObserverArt  Apr 3, 2014 1:32:58pm

re: #359 wrenchwench

I don’t know for sure, but I read that he had no plans to not long before he did. Something interceded.

Here is a portion from the ReCode article linked earlier by Killgore.

“It’s clear that Brendan cannot lead Mozilla in this setting,” said Baker, who added that she would not and could not speak for Eich. “The ability to lead — particularly for the CEO — is fundamental to the role and that is not possible here.”

She said that Eich — who created the JavaScript programming language, among other prominent computing achievements — had not been forced to resign by her or others on its board, which includes prominent Silicon Valley entrepreneur and investor Reid Hoffman.

“I think there has been pressure from all sides, of course, but this is Brendan’s decision,” Baker said. “Given the circumstances, this is not surprising.”

Mozilla Co-Founder Brendan Eich Resigns as CEO, Leaves Foundation Board

389 Testy Toad T  Apr 3, 2014 1:32:58pm

re: #384 Timothy Watson

OFFS, this is why everyone mocks people on the (center) left. You didn’t watch the fucking segment but, somehow, you know it’s offensive/racist? And you explain yourself using words that only people who majored in gender studies uses?

She’s not particularly (center) left, and she did watch the fucking segment.

Thanks for playing, though.

(PIMF’d? I swore someone in here quoted her as having watched it.)

390 A Mom Anon  Apr 3, 2014 1:34:10pm

re: #368 klys

Also, how would anyone know how you voted unless you crowed about it publicly? I personally don’t tell people how I vote for anything, but, if you know me and take the time to talk with me sometimes, you could probably figure it out. Still, there’s no proof how I voted, just my word, or not.

I’m honestly not sure what the hell Kilgore’s point is here. Sure, be a bigot, be a jerk if you feel you have to. But that free speech doesn’t come without any challenges to it or consequences. Rush Limbaugh for example is allowed to say whatever the hell he wants, it’s protected under the first amendment. However, he is not entitled to a national platform, a fat paycheck or a syndicated radio program as part of his first amendment protections. He’s also not free from people responding negatively to his supreme brand of assholishness and his legacy of hatred. People seem to have this misconception that the first amendment protects them from consequences, um no.

391 Ming  Apr 3, 2014 1:34:16pm

re: #262 Chrysicat

You’d like to see the boss be someone who DONATES to discriminatory efforts?!?…

I think there’s some room for a “gray area” in cases like this. I work with people who hold many different viewpoints, and we’re all the better for it.

But in the case of Brendan Eich, I don’t see any saving “gray area”. I agree with the following statement, from the news story: Baker — who became emotional at one point during the interview — noted that she was “doing a fair amount of self-reflection and I am wondering how did I miss it that this would matter more when he was the CEO.”

392 Targetpractice  Apr 3, 2014 1:34:53pm

re: #385 Lidane

None of them, obviously. Can’t boycott a company with a bigoted CEO. Can’t allow the employees of said company to protest their own CEO, either. That’s just unfair punishment.

////

Correct, you cannot in any way inconvenience those with opinions that you disagree with, because they are entitled to them and thus entitled to be immune from criticism. If a place you like to go to frequently comes out against gay marriage, rather than joining a boycott against them or protesting outside, you should instead simply keep your opinion to yourself as those who agree with the business might feel that you are oppressing them.

393 Timothy Watson  Apr 3, 2014 1:34:56pm

re: #386 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

The people complaining aren’t on the center left.

Most of them are on the left and they’re making anyone left of center* look like a complete dipshit.

*Don’t get me started on left/right of center, I used to be center right but thinks to how far the has gone, I would consider myself center left.

394 Ming  Apr 3, 2014 1:35:06pm

re: #345 GeneJockey

>SHIT!! I left my lunch on the kitchen counter at home and I have to prepare for a meeting I’m supposed to be running in 50 minutes on an empty stomach, and I won’t be able to eat before 3:00!!!

Louis CK called this “First-World hunger” in his SNL monologue.

395 Targetpractice  Apr 3, 2014 1:35:53pm

re: #390 A Mom Anon

Also, how would anyone know how you voted unless you crowed about it publicly? I personally don’t tell people how I vote for anything, but, if you know me and take the time to talk with me sometimes, you could probably figure it out. Still, there’s no proof how I voted, just my word, or not.

I’m honestly not sure what the hell Kilgore’s point is here. Sure, be a bigot, be a jerk if you feel you have to. But that free speech doesn’t come without any challenges to it or consequences. Rush Limbaugh for example is allowed to say whatever the hell he wants, it’s protected under the first amendment. However, he is not entitled to a national platform, a fat paycheck or a syndicated radio program as part of his first amendment protections. He’s also not free from people responding negatively to his supreme brand of assholishness and his legacy of hatred. People seem to have this misconception that the first amendment protects them from consequences, um no.

Killgore is a concern troll. He has no point, except perhaps the one atop his head.

396 JamesWI  Apr 3, 2014 1:36:03pm

re: #390 A Mom Anon

Also, how would anyone know how you voted unless you crowed about it publicly? I personally don’t tell people how I vote for anything, but, if you know me and take the time to talk with me sometimes, you could probably figure it out. Still, there’s no proof how I voted, just my word, or not.

I’m honestly not sure what the hell Kilgore’s point is here. Sure, be a bigot, be a jerk if you feel you have to. But that free speech doesn’t come without any challenges to it or consequences. Rush Limbaugh for example is allowed to say whatever the hell he wants, it’s protected under the first amendment. However, he is not entitled to a national platform, a fat paycheck or a syndicated radio program as part of his first amendment protections. He’s also not free from people responding negatively to his supreme brand of assholishness and his legacy of hatred. People seem to have this misconception that the first amendment protects them from consequences, um no.

If I’m remembering correctly, KT was also against boycotting Rush’s sponsors. Because of course he was. Bigots have free speech rights, everyone else doesn’t.

397 A Mom Anon  Apr 3, 2014 1:36:41pm

re: #372 TedStriker

I almost, half jokingly want to ask her how much Snyder paid her for her tantrum.

398 Timothy Watson  Apr 3, 2014 1:36:42pm

re: #389 Testy Toad T

She’s not particularly (center) left, and she did watch the fucking segment.

Thanks for playing, though.

(PIMF’d? I swore someone in here quoted her as having watched it.)

From Salon:

Did you watch the Monday night segment on the “Colbert Report”?

No, and I think that’s an irrelevant question.

Why do you think that’s an irrelevant question?

Because you’re still trying to understand my context, rather than the reaction and the conversation that I was trying to create.

You don’t think understanding your context is just as important?

I don’t think so.

399 Lidane  Apr 3, 2014 1:37:18pm

Laser-like focus!

400 Testy Toad T  Apr 3, 2014 1:38:10pm

re: #177 Charles Johnson

Again - read the article linked above and you’ll find out that Park says she actually SAW the episode of Colbert Report with that line in it, and understood the context completely. But she simply didn’t care.

401 Killgore Trout  Apr 3, 2014 1:38:38pm

re: #383 klys

So in your view, what kinds of social pressure are acceptable to use against minority opinions like bigotry?

It depends on the context. If an employee donates to a political campaign against gay marriage (which I consider a bigoted position) he can keep his job. If he harasses gay employees or customers then he gets fired. If he has a rebel flag in his house he can keep his job. If he tattoos a swastika on his forehead and screams the N word in his cubicle, he’s fired.
If people can keep their offensive political and social opinions out of the workplace I don’t care what they do in their private lives. That would apply to everybody. If someone harasses fellow employees because they voted for a different candidate then they’d be fired.

402 EPR-radar  Apr 3, 2014 1:38:40pm

re: #398 Timothy Watson

I believe the “monday night segment” of the Colbert Report discussed in the interview was Colbert’s reaction to this mess, rather than the original segment.

403 Decatur Deb  Apr 3, 2014 1:39:10pm

re: #399 Lidane

Laser-like focus!

[Embedded content]

Props for determination, bless their souls.

404 Lidane  Apr 3, 2014 1:39:24pm

re: #396 JamesWI

If I’m remembering correctly, KT was also against boycotting Rush’s sponsors. Because of course he was. Bigots have free speech rights, everyone else doesn’t.

He also had no issue with the UC Davis students that were peacefully protesting on campus getting beaten and pepper sprayed by police.

405 Ming  Apr 3, 2014 1:39:40pm

re: #390 A Mom Anon

…People seem to have this misconception that the first amendment protects them from consequences, um no.

Reminds me of this gem from Sarah Palin:

“If [the media] convince enough voters that that is negative campaigning, for me to call Barack Obama out on his associations, then I don’t know what the future of our country would be in terms of First Amendment rights and our ability to ask questions without fear of attacks by the mainstream media.”

406 Targetpractice  Apr 3, 2014 1:39:59pm

re: #399 Lidane

Laser-like focus!

[Embedded content]

“Raising the deficit even a single dollar is immoral and unconscionable as it enlarges the burden on our grandchildren. Now excuse us while we vote for yet another bill that will raise the deficit by billions of dollars.”

407 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Apr 3, 2014 1:40:42pm

re: #393 Timothy Watson

Most of them are on the left and they’re making anyone left of center* look like a complete dipshit.

*Don’t get me started on left/right of center, I used to be center right but thinks to how far the has gone, I would consider myself center left.

The good news is that left and right are pretty much meaningless.

408 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Apr 3, 2014 1:41:18pm

re: #401 Killgore Trout

We’re not talking about workers, we’re talking about the CEO.

409 Timothy Watson  Apr 3, 2014 1:41:22pm

re: #402 EPR-radar

I believe the “monday night segment” of the Colbert Report discussed in the interview was Colbert’s reaction to this mess, rather than the original segment.

You’re right, my mistake.

410 Timothy Watson  Apr 3, 2014 1:41:40pm

re: #407 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

The good news is that left and right are pretty much meaningless.

That too.

411 A Mom Anon  Apr 3, 2014 1:41:56pm

re: #405 Ming

Ow. I have a pain behind my eye now.

412 Timothy Watson  Apr 3, 2014 1:43:05pm

The one good thing about #CancelColbert? It’s show how much influence a single self-absorbed Asian-American has versus the entire Native American community, essentially proving Colbert’s point.

413 Targetpractice  Apr 3, 2014 1:43:08pm

re: #401 Killgore Trout

It depends on the context. If an employee donates to a political campaign against gay marriage (which I consider a bigoted position) he can keep his job. If he harasses gay employees or customers then he gets fired. If he has a rebel flag in his house he can keep his job. If he tattoos a swastika on his forehead and screams the N word in his cubicle, he’s fired.
If people can keep their offensive political and social opinions out of the workplace I don’t care what they do in their private lives. That would apply to everybody. If someone harasses fellow employees because they voted for a different candidate then they’d be fired.

And who are you to decide this? Better yet, have you stopped and considered that controversies like this actually hurt a business in more ways than just the threat of a boycott? That it makes it harder for businesses to hire good talent when potential employees know the guy at the top hates them for who they are? Makes it harder for them to obtain investment or negotiate deals and partnerships with other companies when it becomes public knowledge that the CEO is a bigot?

414 ObserverArt  Apr 3, 2014 1:43:38pm

re: #390 A Mom Anon

Also, how would anyone know how you voted unless you crowed about it publicly? I personally don’t tell people how I vote for anything, but, if you know me and take the time to talk with me sometimes, you could probably figure it out. Still, there’s no proof how I voted, just my word, or not.

I’m honestly not sure what the hell Kilgore’s point is here. Sure, be a bigot, be a jerk if you feel you have to. But that free speech doesn’t come without any challenges to it or consequences. Rush Limbaugh for example is allowed to say whatever the hell he wants, it’s protected under the first amendment. However, he is not entitled to a national platform, a fat paycheck or a syndicated radio program as part of his first amendment protections. He’s also not free from people responding negatively to his supreme brand of assholishness and his legacy of hatred. People seem to have this misconception that the first amendment protects them from consequences, um no.

I’m thinking he is fine with his own form of personal outrage about the firing but has no room for anyone else’s outrages.

Which may also mean that if Killgore was from the antebellum south, he would be outraged with the northerners politics of the whole ‘slave thing’ they were all so outraged about.

415 klys  Apr 3, 2014 1:44:01pm

re: #401 Killgore Trout

Ok, now what if for the employer, the bigotry is acceptable? What decisions are consumers allowed to make, that are acceptable to you?

416 Aunty Entity Dragon  Apr 3, 2014 1:44:36pm

re: #120 Mattand

Just read the Salon interview.

Abby Hoffman, she ain’t.

I read it…and I had to agree with one person who commented that “we have now found the center of the universe”.

Perspective is something she lacks, and don’t get me started on her refusal to even watch Colbert’s Monday response.

417 ObserverArt  Apr 3, 2014 1:44:39pm

re: #411 A Mom Anon

Ow. I have a pain behind my eye now.

Getting ‘twitchy’ eye.

: )

418 Decatur Deb  Apr 3, 2014 1:45:28pm

re: #413 Targetpractice

And who are you to decide this? Better yet, have you stopped and considered that controversies like this actually hurt a business in more ways than just the threat of a boycott? That it makes it harder for businesses to hire good talent when potential employees know the guy at the top hates them for who they are? Makes it harder for them to obtain investment or negotiate deals and partnerships with other companies when it becomes public knowledge that the CEO is a bigot?

Really screws up the arrangements for the annual stockholders’ ball.

419 Targetpractice  Apr 3, 2014 1:45:49pm

re: #414 ObserverArt

I’m thinking he is fine with his own form of personal outrage about the firing but has no room for anyone else’s outrages.

Which may also mean that if Killgore was from the antebellum south, he would be outraged with the northerners politics of the whole ‘slave thing’ they were all so outraged about.

If LGF had been around in the 60s, Killgore would have been criticizing black students sitting at Whites Only counters and spoken with approval of protest marches being met with fire hoses and police dogs. After all, the white majority was made to feel bad for being racist or condoning racism, and that is just unacceptable.

420 EPR-radar  Apr 3, 2014 1:46:12pm

re: #407 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

The good news is that left and right are pretty much meaningless.

What’s wrong with the basic definitions given in Wikipedia?

“Right-wing politics are political positions or activities that accept or support social hierarchy or social inequality. Those affiliated with the Right consider social hierarchy and social inequality as either inevitable, natural, normal, or desirable, typically justifying this position on the basis of natural law or tradition.”

“Left-wing politics are political positions or activities that accept or support social equality, often in opposition to social hierarchy and social inequality. It typically involves a concern for those in society who are perceived as disadvantaged relative to others and an assumption that there are unjustified inequalities that need to be reduced or abolished.”

This doesn’t seem either inherently meaningless or impossibly far removed from reality to me.

421 Timothy Watson  Apr 3, 2014 1:46:43pm

re: #416 Aunty Entity Dragon

I read it…and I had to agree with one person who commented that “we have now found the center of the universe”.

Perspective is something she lacks, and don’t get me started on her refusal to even watch Colbert’s Monday response.

You have a stronger stomach than me. I skimmed it and wanted to punch something just doing that.

422 Decatur Deb  Apr 3, 2014 1:48:32pm

re: #419 Targetpractice

If LGF had been around in the 60s, Killgore would have been criticizing black students sitting at Whites Only counters and spoken with approval of protest marches being met with fire hoses and police dogs. After all, the white majority was made to feel bad for being racist or condoning racism, and that is just unacceptable.

Kilgore beat the hell out of the teaparty on months of threads. That helped make the LGF Redemption.

423 klys  Apr 3, 2014 1:49:35pm

re: #422 Decatur Deb

Kilgore beat the hell out of the teaparty on months of threads. That helped make the LGF Redemption.

And CNN once presented actual news.

424 Decatur Deb  Apr 3, 2014 1:50:16pm

re: #423 klys

And CNN once presented actual news.

They’ll find that plane yet.

425 dog philosopher  Apr 3, 2014 1:51:06pm

re: #407 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

The good news is that left and right are pretty much meaningless.

i prefer the political classification ‘ignorant morans’ vs ‘smartass morons’ myself

426 ObserverArt  Apr 3, 2014 1:51:49pm

re: #419 Targetpractice

If LGF had been around in the 60s, Killgore would have been criticizing black students sitting at Whites Only counters and spoken with approval of protest marches being met with fire hoses and police dogs. After all, the white majority was made to feel bad for being racist or condoning racism, and that is just unacceptable.

Or 1970 Kent State…where even a ROTC student got caught in the Guards shooting that happened to come about from everyone getting upset the student protesters (and ‘outside agitators’) burning down the old ROTC building that was scheduled to be torn down anyway.

427 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Apr 3, 2014 1:52:48pm

re: #420 EPR-radar

What’s wrong with the basic definitions given in Wikipedia?

“Right-wing politics are political positions or activities that accept or support social hierarchy or social inequality. Those affiliated with the Right consider social hierarchy and social inequality as either inevitable, natural, normal, or desirable, typically justifying this position on the basis of natural law or tradition.”

“Left-wing politics are political positions or activities that accept or support social equality, often in opposition to social hierarchy and social inequality. It typically involves a concern for those in society who are perceived as disadvantaged relative to others and an assumption that there are unjustified inequalities that need to be reduced or abolished.”

This doesn’t seem either inherently meaningless or impossibly far removed from reality to me.

Many ‘right-wing’ people in the US claim that they are the real supporters of social equality, that their way will actually lead to it, and that the left-wing way actually codifies inequality.

428 dog philosopher  Apr 3, 2014 1:53:36pm

re: #426 ObserverArt

outside agitators

agitators work better if they are inside the washing machine

429 Decatur Deb  Apr 3, 2014 1:54:15pm

re: #427 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

Many ‘right-wing’ people in the US claim that they are the real supporters of social equality, that their way will actually lead to it, and that the left-wing way actually codifies inequality.

Yes, but they’re full of shit.

430 Kragar  Apr 3, 2014 1:54:31pm

Barret Brown signs Plea Deal

431 goddamnedfrank  Apr 3, 2014 1:55:50pm

re: #401 Killgore Trout

It depends on the context. If an employee donates to a political campaign against gay marriage (which I consider a bigoted position) he can keep his job.

Conflating a CEO with an employee is pretty disingenuous. CEOs and public relations officers are held to a standard that fairly or unfairly melds their public and private lives. The standards they’re held to are both stricter and to a degree more arbitrary, vacillating with public opinion. I don’t feel sorry for them though, they’re compensated accordingly.

432 TedStriker  Apr 3, 2014 1:56:56pm

re: #382 Lidane

Rebranding!

What a fucking shithead…

433 dog philosopher  Apr 3, 2014 1:58:45pm

re: #427 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

Many ‘right-wing’ people in the US claim that they are the real supporters of social equality, that their way will actually lead to it, and that the left-wing way actually codifies inequality.

their rationale for this though assumes that laissez faire, law of the jungle, social darwinist survival of the fittest in the marketplace is the true equality, and that a perfectly unfettered social darwinist existence would result in a perfectly fair distribution of a social hierarchy of winners and losers, thus leading to a perfectly fair state of utter social inequality

left wingers like myself think that a ‘community’ model of community makes for better, not to mention more traditional, communities

i want my community to be a community, not a jungle

434 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Apr 3, 2014 1:58:46pm

re: #429 Decatur Deb

Yes, but they’re full of shit.

Some are sincere. Rouge, who used to post here, irritated me precisely because I think he was a sincere libertarian who actually believed letting people discriminate against black people would eventually lead to a better outcome for black people.

So some are full of shit, and some just think in a really broken way. With others, it’s the overJesus that they’ve got.

435 Killgore Trout  Apr 3, 2014 1:59:13pm

re: #415 klys

Ok, now what if for the employer, the bigotry is acceptable? What decisions are consumers allowed to make, that are acceptable to you?

I think the same rules should apply to CEO’s, bosses and managers. I don’t see why they wouldn’t.

436 Decatur Deb  Apr 3, 2014 1:59:46pm

re: #434 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

Some are sincere. Rouge, who used to post here, irritated me precisely because I think he was a sincere libertarian who actually believed letting people discriminate against black people would eventually lead to a better outcome for black people.

So some are full of shit, and some just think in a really broken way. With others, it’s the overJesus that they’ve got.

Sincerely full of shit.

437 klys  Apr 3, 2014 2:00:56pm

re: #435 Killgore Trout

I think the same rules should apply to CEO’s, bosses and managers. I don’t see why they wouldn’t.

That doesn’t answer the question I asked.

If an employer decides that bigotry is acceptable, even in the workplace, what options are available to a consumer (in your view) who may or may not choose to interact with that employer in some fashion?

Should the employer’s support of bigotry be allowed to play a role in the consumer’s decision, in your view?

438 TedStriker  Apr 3, 2014 2:01:44pm

re: #294 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

To be clear, if this dude had just been a programmer at Mozilla, I’d think it’d be very shitty to fire him.

But when you’re the CEO, or the director of policy, or the head of HR, this is the kind of shit that actually matters in the performance of your job.

And the main reason that companies care about this is not because of fear of boycotts—Mozilla is a nonprofit—but because of hiring talent. Having a CEO who’s publically bigoted against 10% of the population severely cuts into your ability to hire the best and the brightest.

Beyond that, it’s so that if their CEO has to meet with, say, Chris Hughes, there won’t be this awkward thing of “Oh, yeah, our CEO is bigoted against who you are but that’s not going to affect this meeting, right?”

Having ‘not being a bigot’ as a requirement for CEO is a good thing.

Or meeting with, say, Apple CEO Tim Cook…

439 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Apr 3, 2014 2:02:16pm

re: #433 dog philosopher

I think there is at least one very real political division, and that’s between positive and negative rights. I believe that other human beings in my society have the right to a whole host of things, like food, medical care, housing, education, etc. Libertarians and classical liberals hate positive rights, and only like negative rights: the government refraining from doing something to you, like regulating your coal-fired power plant, but also freedom of worship and freedom of speech. Most sane people like both positive and negative rights to a certain degree. I am very, very far over on the positive rights spectrum.

Incidentally, this is what Killgore fucked up when he heard the phrase ‘classical liberal’, looked it up in Wiki, didn’t read carefully enough, and started talking about how great positive rights were. Dark actually caught him out on that ignorance, it was hilarious.

440 Feline Fearless Leader  Apr 3, 2014 2:02:28pm

re: #401 Killgore Trout

It depends on the context. If an employee donates to a political campaign against gay marriage (which I consider a bigoted position) he can keep his job. If he harasses gay employees or customers then he gets fired. If he has a rebel flag in his house he can keep his job. If he tattoos a swastika on his forehead and screams the N word in his cubicle, he’s fired.
If people can keep their offensive political and social opinions out of the workplace I don’t care what they do in their private lives. That would apply to everybody. If someone harasses fellow employees because they voted for a different candidate then they’d be fired.

This leaves very open what they do in the public square since as an employee they are a de facto representative of that company. Especially if they are in a position of authority where they are expected to provide an example of principled leadership, stewardship, etc. (Which echoes back to the woman traveling to South Africa who put out the blatantly racist tweet and ended arriving there out of a job. Who happened to be in a PR position where she was essentially a public face for her employer.)

441 goddamnedfrank  Apr 3, 2014 2:02:30pm

re: #435 Killgore Trout

I think the same rules should apply to CEO’s, bosses and managers. I don’t see why they wouldn’t.

Because the public face of the company has PR consequences that reverberate down to sales, stock price, and ability to attract and retain talent.

You should ask yourself why this wasn’t immediately apparent to you, because it’s really fucking obvious.

442 Decatur Deb  Apr 3, 2014 2:02:44pm

re: #437 klys

That doesn’t answer the question I asked.

If an employer decides that bigotry is acceptable, even in the workplace, what options are available to a consumer (in your view) who may or may not choose to interact with that employer in some fashion?

Should the employer’s support of bigotry be allowed to play a role in the consumer’s decision, in your view?

Still boycotting grapes (though I never liked them).

443 b.d.  Apr 3, 2014 2:02:52pm
David Letterman says during the taping of tonight’s “The Late Show” that he will retire in 2015.

cnn.com

444 Killgore Trout  Apr 3, 2014 2:03:12pm

re: #415 klys

Ok, now what if for the employer, the bigotry is acceptable? What decisions are consumers allowed to make, that are acceptable to you?

Let’s try this: Should Muslims who don’t support gay marriage also be fired for their views?

445 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Apr 3, 2014 2:03:28pm

re: #444 Killgore Trout

Let’s try this: Should Muslims who don’t support gay marriage also be fired for their views?

Are they the CEO?

446 Decatur Deb  Apr 3, 2014 2:04:21pm

re: #444 Killgore Trout

Let’s try this: Should Muslims who don’t support gay marriage also be fired for their views?

re: #445 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

Are they the CEO?

And tonight’s magic word is “Nexus”.

447 goddamnedfrank  Apr 3, 2014 2:04:54pm

re: #444 Killgore Trout

Let’s try this: Should Muslims who don’t support gay marriage also be fired for their views?

If they’re the CEO or public relations officer of a Fortune 500 Company then it’d be difficult to fault a board of directors for asking for their resignation, which is exactly what happened here.

Are you preternaturally stupid?

448 Targetpractice  Apr 3, 2014 2:05:28pm

re: #444 Killgore Trout

Let’s try this: Should Muslims who don’t support gay marriage also be fired for their views?

If the board asks for their resignation, then yes.

449 Chrysicat  Apr 3, 2014 2:05:46pm

Ed Schulz the first person in almost a day to not lead his show with Ft Hood.

Instead he’s leading with “Tennessee taxpayer dollars were used to kill the UAW vote for VW, the one that without it, they’ll close the plant”.

450 Kragar  Apr 3, 2014 2:05:48pm

re: #444 Killgore Trout

Let’s try this: Should Muslims who don’t support gay marriage also be fired for their views?

As long as their views don’t impact their work performance, no.

Now if anyone, Christian, Muslim, whatever causes trouble in the office, either with coworkers or customers, because of their personal views, they need to be shown the door.

451 Killgore Trout  Apr 3, 2014 2:06:11pm

re: #437 klys

That doesn’t answer the question I asked.

If an employer decides that bigotry is acceptable, even in the workplace, what options are available to a consumer (in your view) who may or may not choose to interact with that employer in some fashion?

Should the employer’s support of bigotry be allowed to play a role in the consumer’s decision, in your view?

Yes, especially if that bigotry extends to the workplace and hiring practices. If a CEO supports a different candidate or votes for a different party I really don’t care.

452 ObserverArt  Apr 3, 2014 2:06:12pm

re: #445 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

Are they the CEO?

Exactly what I and probably many around here would ask. Thanks.

453 wrenchwench  Apr 3, 2014 2:06:23pm

re: #442 Decatur Deb

Still boycotting grapes (though I never liked them).

Oh, I think you like them in some forms. And don’t you have to buy extra at the end of the boycott to emphasize the amount of damage that was being done by it?

/grapeless childhood

454 Feline Fearless Leader  Apr 3, 2014 2:06:45pm

re: #427 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

Many ‘right-wing’ people in the US claim that they are the real supporters of social equality, that their way will actually lead to it, and that the left-wing way actually codifies inequality.

And those terms may cover rough positions without supplying any information on how changes (if any) should be enacted, enforced, or regulated. And at what level within a multi-level governmental form; local, state, federal in the US as an example.

455 CuriousLurker  Apr 3, 2014 2:07:29pm

re: #401 Killgore Trout

It depends on the context. If an employee donates to a political campaign against gay marriage (which I consider a bigoted position) he can keep his job. If he harasses gay employees or customers then he gets fired. If he has a rebel flag in his house he can keep his job. If he tattoos a swastika on his forehead and screams the N word in his cubicle, he’s fired.
If people can keep their offensive political and social opinions out of the workplace I don’t care what they do in their private lives. That would apply to everybody. If someone harasses fellow employees because they voted for a different candidate then they’d be fired.

Private lives? When you make a political statement by listing your company name with your donation and and that info is freely available, then you’re not doing it as a “private” person, you’re making a public statement in the name of your company.

Likewise, if you publicly tweet some offensive crap, then it is by definition not private, it’s a matter of public record.

456 Decatur Deb  Apr 3, 2014 2:07:58pm

re: #453 wrenchwench

Oh, I think you like them in some forms. And don’t you have to buy extra at the end of the boycott to emphasize the amount of damage that was being done by it?

/grapeless childhood

Not bad if they’re pourable.

457 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Apr 3, 2014 2:08:07pm

re: #454 Feline Fearless Leader

And those terms may cover rough positions without supplying any information on how changes (if any) should be enacted, enforced, or regulated. And at what level within a multi-level governmental form; local, state, federal in the US as an example.

Yeah, someone can say “Oh, I’m all for that, but it should be up to the states, the feds actually trample on rights.”

Nothing important and non-physical can be described on a linear scale like ‘left’ to ‘right’.

458 Killgore Trout  Apr 3, 2014 2:08:09pm

re: #447 goddamnedfrank

If they’re the CEO or public relations officer of a Fortune 500 Company then it’d be difficult to fault a board of directors for asking for their resignation, which is exactly what happened here.

Are you preternaturally stupid?

Ok, just checking to see if these rules are going to apply evenly. Personally I shop at a Halal market which is owned by the mosque next door. I assume they don’t support gay rights but it’s a nice store. I don’t care much about their political or social views.

459 sattv4u2  Apr 3, 2014 2:08:20pm

re: #442 Decatur Deb

Still boycotting grapes (though I never liked them).

Why do you hate Cesar Chavez!!?!??
/

460 RealityBasedSteve  Apr 3, 2014 2:08:46pm

re: #320 TedStriker

Loud, obnoxious, and fact-free sells in today’s media and Park is riding it for all that’s worth.

When I lived in Washington State 20 plus years ago (I think that was where it was) there was a local radio talk show host, Mike Segal. I’d describe him as a moderate Republican, wanted a smaller government, but also with the sense to realize that there needs to be an active safety net, and protections and regulations because otherwise the poorest and defenseless get screwed over big time.

I didn’t always agree with him, but he was reasonable, presented logical arguments, and welcomed guests and callers that challenged his positions. He even admitted that his positions on subjects had changed over time as he learned, listened and spoke to others.

I lost track of him, and the next time I heard him years later, he was “HOT TALK RADIO” and was just a Limbaugh clone, bombastic and condescending to anybody that didn’t parrot his line. I felt like calling in and asking what happened to that reasonable moderate that I used to listen to, but I knew what had happened…. it’s all about the listeners, the clicks, the eyes or the ears.

RBS

461 klys  Apr 3, 2014 2:09:06pm

re: #444 Killgore Trout

Let’s try this: Should Muslims who don’t support gay marriage also be fired for their views?

If their outspoken and public support is such that it has become a detriment to the company in some form, probably because they are in a position such that they are associated with being the ‘face’ of the company, yes.

Bigotry is no less bigoted because it is motivated by religion.

462 Targetpractice  Apr 3, 2014 2:09:40pm

re: #449 Chrysicat

Ed Schulz the first person in almost a day to not lead his show with Ft Hood.

Instead he’s leading with “Tennessee taxpayer dollars were used to kill the UAW vote for VW, the one that without it, they’ll close the plant”.

The vote that has VW now considering just moving the new production line to Mexico, despite politicians at every level saying that a loss by the UAW would actually make the state more attractive to VW?

463 wrenchwench  Apr 3, 2014 2:10:08pm

re: #456 Decatur Deb

Not bad if they’re pourable.

And that kind were never affected by the boycott, IIRC.

464 Decatur Deb  Apr 3, 2014 2:10:59pm

re: #457 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

Yeah, someone can say “Oh, I’m all for that, but it should be up to the states, the feds actually trample on rights.”

Nothing important and non-physical can be described on a linear scale like ‘left’ to ‘right’.

Red and Black? Romantic-classical? Always liked Appolonian-Dionysian.

465 Killgore Trout  Apr 3, 2014 2:11:05pm

re: #455 CuriousLurker

Private lives? When you make a political statement by listing your company name with your donation and and that info is freely available, then you’re not doing it as a “private” person, you’re making a public statement in the name of your company.

Likewise, if you publicly tweet some offensive crap, then it is by definition not private, it’s a matter of public record.

That’s part of why I’m starting to reconsider my opinion of making political donations public record. If people start using normal political activity to punish their opponents employment then it becomes dangerous to a free society.

466 ObserverArt  Apr 3, 2014 2:11:38pm

re: #458 Killgore Trout

Ok, just checking to see if these rules are going to apply evenly. Personally I shop at a Halal market which is owned by the mosque next door. I assume they don’t support gay rights but it’s a nice store. I don’t care much about their political or social views.

Does said store turn away gay customers or suggest with big signs on the front door that they are against gay rights because they are Muslim?

Do you ever directly answer a question without asking to dance?

467 klys  Apr 3, 2014 2:12:50pm

re: #451 Killgore Trout

Yes, especially if that bigotry extends to the workplace and hiring practices. If a CEO supports a different candidate or votes for a different party I really don’t care.

So boycotts as social pressure to address bigotry in the workplace are ok?

468 Decatur Deb  Apr 3, 2014 2:13:06pm

re: #465 Killgore Trout

That’s part of why I’m starting to reconsider my opinion of making political donations public record. If people start using normal political activity to punish their opponents employment then it becomes dangerous to a free society.

You can probably get 5 SC justices to go along with you.

469 Tigger2  Apr 3, 2014 2:13:25pm

re: #399 Lidane

Laser-like focus!

[Embedded content]

Fucking fools never learn.

470 RealityBasedSteve  Apr 3, 2014 2:13:34pm

re: #449 Chrysicat

Ed Schulz the first person in almost a day to not lead his show with Ft Hood.

Instead he’s leading with “Tennessee taxpayer dollars were used to kill the UAW vote for VW, the one that without it, they’ll close the plant”.

Yea… the Governor and the Legislature pretty much did a “Nice little factory you’ve got here, be a pity if the Union came in, it “COULD” affect any funding / tax breaks / stimulus funds we might want to give you”. Now they are back peddling, saying “THAT’S NOT WHAT WE MEANT”, no but that was what the message was…

When Vinnie and Sal do it, it’s called protection.

EDIT: I believe the term that the Leg. used was “Pending an acceptable outcome of the Union vote”

RBS

471 Killgore Trout  Apr 3, 2014 2:13:35pm

I’ve only heard a bit of today’s show but it looks like outrage is on the horizon
Radio Hosts Opie and Anthony Call for ‘Revolution’ over Obamacare Cancellations

472 sattv4u2  Apr 3, 2014 2:14:05pm

re: #466 ObserverArt

Do you ever directly answer a question without asking to dance?

Yes

WAIT ,,,,no,,, Tango,,,,, Ballroom ,,,,, FoxTrot ,,,,,, The Twist!!!!

473 Killgore Trout  Apr 3, 2014 2:14:52pm

re: #467 klys

So boycotts as social pressure to address bigotry in the workplace are ok?

Yes, I think we’ve already established that. We don’t disagree as much as you’d like to think.

474 klys  Apr 3, 2014 2:16:42pm

re: #473 Killgore Trout

Yes, I think we’ve already established that. We don’t disagree as much as you’d like to think.

But you are against consumers using boycotts to protest support of bigotry, like boycotting companies that advertise on Rush’s show, for example. Is that not correct?

I’m just trying to distinguish at what level you feel there’s enough separation between the money and the bigotry that a boycott is bad.

475 Decatur Deb  Apr 3, 2014 2:19:02pm

How about anyone can boycott anyone for any reason? If it’s bullshit, it will fall through quickly. If the managers panic, they weren’t very good managers.

476 sattv4u2  Apr 3, 2014 2:20:01pm

re: #475 Decatur Deb

How about anyone can boycott anyone for any reason? If it’s bullshit, it will fall through quickly. If the managers panic, they weren’t very good managers.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

BOYCOTT THIS POST

477 sattv4u2  Apr 3, 2014 2:21:18pm

This one too

^^^^^^^^^

478 GlutenFreeJesus  Apr 3, 2014 2:22:46pm

Pretty bird!

479 klys  Apr 3, 2014 2:22:50pm

re: #475 Decatur Deb

How about anyone can boycott anyone for any reason? If it’s bullshit, it will fall through quickly. If the managers panic, they weren’t very good managers.

I don’t know, maybe KT can explain. He’s the one worried about the culture of fear and political oppression by people threatening employment (presumably through boycotts, since that’s the only real threat a consumer would have) over this.

480 RealityBasedSteve  Apr 3, 2014 2:23:00pm

re: #477 sattv4u2

This one too

^^^^^^^^^

I’m going to open a store selling boycott supplies, so if you boycott me, you’ve played right into my cunning plan.

RBS

481 Killgore Trout  Apr 3, 2014 2:23:09pm

re: #474 klys

But you are against consumers using boycotts to protest support of bigotry, like boycotting companies that advertise on Rush’s show, for example. Is that not correct?

That is correct. I don’t listen to the show but I have no desire to prevent other people from hearing it.

I’m just trying to distinguish at what level you feel there’s enough separation between the money and the bigotry that a boycott is bad.

There’s not a firm line for me but usually movies, books, cartoons, music, comedy, satire are all off limits for me. I don’t care if someone paints a picture or tells a joke I don’t like, even if it’s horribly offensive. In the case of hostile work environments, discriminatory hiring then I can see the need for boycotts. I get very uncomfortable with the notion that donating to a political cause or voting for a different candidate is cause to get people fired. It’s authoritarian and oppressive. Just because people can do it doesn’t make it right or just.

482 Ming  Apr 3, 2014 2:23:17pm

re: #401 Killgore Trout

…If people can keep their offensive political and social opinions out of the workplace I don’t care what they do in their private lives…

You make an important distinction, that people should have more “leeway” in their private lives, compared with the workplace. This is reasonable enough as a very general distinction.

But it’s important to understand that adults should be prepared to face consequences for what they do, whether at home or in the workplace. You may not care what the CEO of a company does in his or her private life. But please be aware, other people may care, and do care in this case. The free market “has no rules” in this respect. As a consumer in the free market, I have every right to boycott Hobby Lobby. I have every right to not work for someone who, for example, brings up religion during a job interview.

Sometimes, reality bites. What I love about the Brendan Eich case is that it puts us all on notice that our actions have consequences. Maybe the next time someone wants to donate to a cause, or announce their political views in public, they’ll stop and think for a few seconds if they really want to “go on the record”, so to speak.

When Mr. Eich donated $1000 to Proposition 8, he wanted his action to have real consequences for real people. Turns out it did.

483 Killgore Trout  Apr 3, 2014 2:23:38pm

re: #476 sattv4u2

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

BOYCOTT THIS POST

Post this Boycott!

484 sattv4u2  Apr 3, 2014 2:24:39pm

re: #483 Killgore Trout

Post this Boycott!

485 Killgore Trout  Apr 3, 2014 2:25:45pm

re: #484 sattv4u2

486 Decatur Deb  Apr 3, 2014 2:25:53pm

re: #483 Killgore Trout

Post this Boycott!

Post no Bills.

487 brennant  Apr 3, 2014 2:26:09pm

Very sporty in here today.

488 brennant  Apr 3, 2014 2:26:36pm

re: #486 Decatur Deb

Post no Bills.

Bill Stickers is innocent!

489 KingKenrod  Apr 3, 2014 2:26:57pm

re: #443 b.d.

Colbert to replace Letterman next year?

490 sattv4u2  Apr 3, 2014 2:28:01pm

re: #482 Ming

1st off,,, great post

2nd

I have every right to not work for someone who, for example, brings up religion during a job interview.

But you’re not demanding that someone ELSE not work for that person. Thats their choice. And if they choose to work there, you’re not going to ostracize them for their choice, right?

491 dog philosopher  Apr 3, 2014 2:28:06pm

re: #486 Decatur Deb

Post no Bills.

Prosecutors Will Be Violated

492 sattv4u2  Apr 3, 2014 2:28:19pm

re: #486 Decatur Deb

Post no Bills.

Bill no posts!

493 brennant  Apr 3, 2014 2:28:32pm

re: #486 Decatur Deb

Post no Bills.

494 Decatur Deb  Apr 3, 2014 2:28:37pm

re: #489 KingKenrod

Colbert to replace Letterman next year?

[Embedded content]

Boycott CBS.

(I want Colbert where he is, doing what he does.)

495 Decatur Deb  Apr 3, 2014 2:28:59pm

re: #491 dog philosopher

Prosecutors Will Be Violated

Violators should be prosecuted.

496 sattv4u2  Apr 3, 2014 2:29:25pm

re: #493 brennant

[Embedded image]

DAMN YOU

Can’t you read the Post No Bill sign!!

497 RealityBasedSteve  Apr 3, 2014 2:30:19pm

re: #496 sattv4u2

DAMN YOU

Can’t you read the Post No Bill sign!!

Violators will be billed postage due.

RBS

498 ObserverArt  Apr 3, 2014 2:30:20pm

Killgore, did you really read the article you had linked initially? They made it pretty clear that once it became known he supported prop 8 he was a dead-man-walking in his industry that has many LGBT and their supporters working in it. So, he was tone deaf about his own industry, so he is either really dumb or full of religious righteousness and both of those would be troubling.

What piece of this whole thing that is missing to me is how it became knowledge by the other board members he voted for prop 8. Anyone know? Did I miss that in this whole thread?

If he made a big deal about this on his own, it was really dumb. If he was outed and it turned on him, then I would lean in your direction about privacy. But it is very suspicious that a donation became public if he didn’t make it so.

499 Kragar  Apr 3, 2014 2:30:52pm

re: #486 Decatur Deb

Post no Bills.

500 sattv4u2  Apr 3, 2014 2:31:02pm

Post

Image: breakfast%20cereals%201.jpg

Cereals!

501 brennant  Apr 3, 2014 2:31:07pm

re: #496 sattv4u2

DAMN YOU

Can’t you read the Post No Bill sign!!

502 sattv4u2  Apr 3, 2014 2:31:26pm

re: #497 RealityBasedSteve

Violators will be billed postage due.

RBS

Duck Billed ?

503 Decatur Deb  Apr 3, 2014 2:31:54pm

re: #499 Kragar

Hoo dat?

504 sattv4u2  Apr 3, 2014 2:32:50pm

re: #503 Decatur Deb

Hoo dat?

My guess

Bill somebody

(or perhaps Post somebody)

505 Romantic Heretic  Apr 3, 2014 2:32:53pm

re: #330 Feline Fearless Leader

She is just there for an argument. See, she paid her five pounds!
///

Except she’s the one doing the arguing, and it’s actually the room for abuse. ;)

506 goddamnedfrank  Apr 3, 2014 2:33:01pm

re: #490 sattv4u2

1st off,,, great post

2nd

I have every right to not work for someone who, for example, brings up religion during a job interview.

But you’re not demanding that someone ELSE not work for that person. Thats their choice. And if they choose to work there, you’re not going to ostracize them for their choice, right?

If the job is as fry cook at Chic-fil-a and it’s all they could get then no. If the job is as spokesperson for the American Family Association then yes, fuck them. Options and circumstances matter.

507 sattv4u2  Apr 3, 2014 2:33:48pm

re: #506 goddamnedfrank

Thank you, Dale Carnegie!

508 sattv4u2  Apr 3, 2014 2:34:56pm

Ah well

Doggies need dinner

I need a shower

Then I need dinner

bbl (perhaps,,,,,, or maybe I’ll just boycott this joint!!!!)
/

509 TedStriker  Apr 3, 2014 2:35:12pm

re: #503 Decatur Deb

Hoo dat?

Bill Withers

510 goddamnedfrank  Apr 3, 2014 2:35:33pm

re: #498 ObserverArt

What piece of this whole thing that is missing to me is how it became knowledge by the other board members he voted for prop 8. Anyone know? Did I miss that in this whole thread?

He was listed as a Prop 8 financial backer on public political contribution forms, that’s what this is about. If his vote was disclosed he was the one who disclosed it.

511 EPR-radar  Apr 3, 2014 2:37:27pm

re: #510 goddamnedfrank

He was listed as a Prop 8 financial backer on public political contribution forms, that’s what this is about. If his vote was disclosed he was the one who disclosed it.

And let’s not forget what that money was used for —- propaganda and fear-mongering of the usual “family values” sort to scapegoat GLBT people as being undeserving of marriage equality.

512 Romantic Heretic  Apr 3, 2014 2:37:58pm

re: #343 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

To the guy that wrote that: What’s important is what you say and whether people, most especially people outside your field, can understand it. What you’re got there isn’t writing, it’s masturbation.

513 klys  Apr 3, 2014 2:38:15pm

re: #511 EPR-radar

And let’s not forget what that money was used for —- propaganda and fear-mongering of the usual “family values” sort to scapegoat GLBT people as being undeserving of marriage equality.

That’s ok, though, because the historical trend is on the GLBT side.

////////////

514 CuriousLurker  Apr 3, 2014 2:38:38pm

re: #465 Killgore Trout

That’s part of why I’m starting to reconsider my opinion of making political donations public record. If people start using normal political activity to punish their opponents employment then it becomes dangerous to a free society.

And you don’t believe the alternative would be even more “dangerous to a free society”? BTW, that whole thing with the halal store and “just checking to see if these rules are going to apply evenly”? Cheap shot. Did you actually expect anyone to say, “Oh, no, we don’t think homophobia is wrong when Muslims do it, only when other groups do”?

Oh, one other thing:

re: #458 Killgore Trout

Ok, just checking to see if these rules are going to apply evenly. Personally I shop at a Halal market which is owned by the mosque next door. I assume they don’t support gay rights but it’s a nice store. I don’t care much about their political or social views.

I shop at halal markets wearing my hijab, if you saw me in the one near your house you’d probably make some dumb-ass assumptions about where I stand on gay rights too. Because, y’know, Muslims are so addle-brained by their religion that they can’t distinguish between their privately held beliefs based on Islam and what is/isn’t acceptable for everyone (including themselves) based on the U.S. Constitution. Then there’s the whole hive-mind thing to contend with. //

I wonder what sort of assumptions the people at the market make about you based on where you live, your physical appearance, and your demeanor…

515 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Apr 3, 2014 2:40:59pm

re: #512 Romantic Heretic

To the guy that wrote that: What’s important is what you say and whether people, most especially people outside your field, can understand it. What you’re got there isn’t writing, it’s masturbation.

It’s Pierre Bourdieu, and yeah, he’s only writing for other sociologists and, I’d say, being an ass while doing so. He does have important thoughts but goddamn you’ve got to dig through a mountain to get to them.

516 BongCrodny  Apr 3, 2014 2:41:19pm

re: #471 Killgore Trout

I’ve only heard a bit of today’s show but it looks like outrage is on the horizon
Radio Hosts Opie and Anthony Call for ‘Revolution’ over Obamacare Cancellations

Hughes, a married father of two, began by revealing that he lost his health insurance plan recently. He became animated while discussing how difficult the paperwork associated with applying for a new plan appeared to be.

“I don’t know why we’re not having a revolution at this point,” Hughes said. “For the first time in my life, I had perfect health insurance.”

Jesus, life is just so fucking tough for millionaires, isn’t it?

517 TedStriker  Apr 3, 2014 2:41:30pm

re: #514 CuriousLurker

And you don’t believe the alternative would be even more “dangerous to a free society”? And BTW, that whole thing with the halal store and “just checking to see if these rules are going to apply evenly”? Cheap shot. Did you actually expect anyone to say, “Oh, no, we don’t think homophobia is wrong when Muslims do it, only when other groups do”?

Oh, one other thing:

I shop at halal markets wearing my hijab, if you saw me in the one near your house you’d probably also make some dumb-ass assumptions about where I stand on gay rights too. Because, y’know, Muslims are so addle-brained by their religion that they can’t distinguish between their privately held beliefs based on Islam and what is/isn’t acceptable everyone (including themselves) based on the U.S. Constitution. Then there’s the whole hive-mind thing to contend with. //

I wonder what sort of assumptions the people at the market make about you based on where you live, your physical appearance, and your demeanor…

*makes note to self to never get on CL’s “bad” side*

///

518 klys  Apr 3, 2014 2:41:44pm

I stand by my principles enough to accept the consequences if someone wants to ‘punish’ me for my contribution to the anti-prop 8 groups. Seriously.

If you believe in something enough to donate money to the political process towards it, fucking own your belief. You can’t donate to restrict other people’s rights and then cry oppression when there are consequences; to construe it that way is kind of sickening to me, honestly.

519 palomino  Apr 3, 2014 2:42:53pm

re: #249 NJDhockeyfan

Is there a really good non-chain seafood restaurant around here?

Is there really a good chain seafood restaurant anywhere?

520 Decatur Deb  Apr 3, 2014 2:43:04pm

re: #506 goddamnedfrank

If the job is as fry cook at Chic-fil-a and it’s all they could get then no. If the job is as spokesperson for the American Family Association then yes, fuck them. Options and circumstances matter.

The commander of our DoD shop in Israel was some kind of genius—you could tell because he never got busted on a discrimination complaint, despite supervising a hardcore Zionist feminist instructor and a hardcore Orthodox man who refused to take instruction from a woman on religious grounds. Then there were our two British employees who threw a blackface skit at the commander’s welcome party for two stateside officials, because Brits are like that.

521 klys  Apr 3, 2014 2:43:31pm

re: #519 palomino

Is there really a good chain seafood restaurant anywhere?

We have a small local chain in the Bay Area that’s pretty good, at least with their specials.

522 Ming  Apr 3, 2014 2:44:38pm

re: #490 sattv4u2

1st off,,, great post

2nd

I have every right to not work for someone who, for example, brings up religion during a job interview.

But you’re not demanding that someone ELSE not work for that person. Thats their choice. And if they choose to work there, you’re not going to ostracize them for their choice, right?

I agree with you completely. I would NOT demand that someone else not work there. Now that I think about it, in 2009, I briefly did a little bit of consulting for a very small company, whose CEO had a large and prominent picture of the Hajj (Muslim pilgrimage in Mecca) in his office. It didn’t bother me in the slightest.

About “ostracizing”, not that I have the power to “ostracize” anyone, but I’d like to nit-pick a bit, going back to the idea of consequences. Suppose that someone tells me that they had a job interview, and the interviewer brought up astrology to them. So what would I do? It really depends on how I feel about the person who tells me this. If I think the job would be a good thing for them, I’d wish them the best of luck. If I had the impression the job wasn’t a good choice, again for them, I’d try to give them helpful feedback.

For me, there’s no “script” for what to do when someone brings up astrology in a job interview. Instead, all I really care about is that person, my connection with that person, and what I can say or do that will be constructive.

But the one thing I would not encourage is the idea that if someone brings up astrology in a job interview, there should never be any consequences, that it’s “wrong” for there to be consequences. Whether it’s brought up by the interviewer, or the interviewee, both are adults and should expect all kinds of consequences. For example (DUH) they might make a bad impression on the other person. Maybe if they bring up astrology often enough, other people will hear about this, and they’ll have a reputation like “this is someone who brought up astrology in a job interview.”

My point is that adults need to take responsibility for a lot of the stuff that we do, public and private, at work or at home. Before you share with other people how you feel about a particular belief system or political viewpoint or social group or whatever, it may be worthwhile to stop and think if this is really what you want to do, with this person, in this context.

523 William Barnett-Lewis  Apr 3, 2014 2:46:05pm

re: #443 b.d.

cnn.com

Pity he’s waiting so long.

524 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Apr 3, 2014 2:46:35pm

re: #514 CuriousLurker

There’s also a huge difference between believing gay marriage is morally wrong and thinking the government should enforce your morality.

I’ve met quite a few orthodox muslim women at Hunter. They defy stereotyping. I’ve met some that believe there shouldn’t be separation of church and state, but the vast majority have believed in separation of church and state—so they wouldn’t have supported prop 8.

525 Killgore Trout  Apr 3, 2014 2:46:50pm

re: #482 Ming

Sometimes, reality bites. What I love about the Brendan Eich case is that it puts us all on notice that our actions have consequences. Maybe the next time someone wants to donate to a cause, or announce their political views in public, they’ll stop and think for a few seconds if they really want to “go on the record”, so to speak

That’s why I think it’s dangerous. Let’s suppose there’s a vote to overturn Citizen’s United. How many people are going to campaign for the legislation if there’s the fear that if it fails they will lose their jobs and be publicly hounded for the effort? Think it can’t happen? It can and things like this are getting more likely is today’s intolerant political atmosphere.

526 Romantic Heretic  Apr 3, 2014 2:47:03pm

re: #357 Floral Giraffe

My nephews BFF was at Cornell & commited suicide Monday. I am struggling, trying to help.

Oh crap. Sending positive vibes your way.

Speaking as someone who tried to take his own life tell your nephew that in no way nor to any degree was this their fault. People that reach that level of despair are very good at hiding it. Even if your nephew had noticed and had tried to help there isn’t much they could do unless they are trained in psychology. A person depressed enough to commit suicide will not hear the words of comfort or hope. They’ll regard it as lies. Well meant lies, but lies nonetheless.

One the things about my suicide attempt that causes me the most guilt is the pain I caused the people who cared for me.

Again, please tell your nephew that their friend’s suicide had nothing to do with what the nephew did or didn’t do. Tell them a person who’s tried to take their own life said so.

527 palomino  Apr 3, 2014 2:47:04pm

re: #521 klys

We have a small local chain in the Bay Area that’s pretty good, at least with their specials.

Small, local and Bay Area are the keys there. SF and Napa Valley have some of the country’s best restaurants. And keeping a chain small and local helps.

Big chains all cut corners, and nearly always it shows in the quality of the food and the rest of the whole experience.

528 Bubblehead II  Apr 3, 2014 2:47:13pm

re: #498 ObserverArt

“What piece of this whole thing that is missing to me is how it became knowledge by the other board members he voted for prop 8. Anyone know? Did I miss that in this whole thread?

If he made a big deal about this on his own, it was really dumb. If he was outed and it turned on him, then I would lean in your direction about privacy. But it is very suspicious that a donation became public if he didn’t make it so.”

See CL’s 455. Donations are apparently a matter of public record in California. How he voted isn’t a matter of public record. The fact that he donated $1000.00 in support of Prop 8 is and that is what got him in the mess he is in.

529 Justanotherhuman  Apr 3, 2014 2:48:57pm

Wow, this could really mess your car up.

530 palomino  Apr 3, 2014 2:49:29pm

re: #525 Killgore Trout

>Sometimes, reality bites. What I love about the Brendan Eich case is that it puts us all on notice that our actions have consequences. Maybe the next time someone wants to donate to a cause, or announce their political views in public, they’ll stop and think for a few seconds if they really want to “go on the record”, so to speak.That’s why I think it’s dangerous. Let’s suppose there’s a vote to overturn Citizen’s United. How many people are going to campaign for the legislation if there’s the fear that if it fails they will lose their jobs and be publicly hounded for the effort? Think it can’t happen? It can and things like this are getting more likely is today’s intolerant political atmosphere.

A vote to overturn Citizens United? By whom? Do you even know how our system works?

531 Kragar  Apr 3, 2014 2:49:47pm
532 William Barnett-Lewis  Apr 3, 2014 2:50:01pm

re: #514 CuriousLurker

I wonder what sort of assumptions the people at the market make about you based on where you live, your physical appearance, and your demeanor…

At least when we call KT a Troll we are doing it on the basis of observed behavior.

533 Romantic Heretic  Apr 3, 2014 2:50:10pm

re: #373 dog philosopher

roger that

one of the best benefits of a good college education is the ability to say “yeah actually i followed you all the way through that and i still think you’re full of shit”

I can do that, but since I have no letters after my name very few take me seriously.

It’s one of the reasons I like hanging here. People will listen and not care that I’m a high school dropout.

534 Killgore Trout  Apr 3, 2014 2:50:21pm

re: #530 palomino

A vote to overturn Citizens United? By whom? Do you even know how our system works?

It’s a hypothetical.

535 iossarian  Apr 3, 2014 2:50:26pm

re: #520 Decatur Deb

The commander of our DoD shop in Israel was some kind of genius—you could tell because he never got busted on a discrimination complaint, despite supervising a hardcore Zionist feminist instructor and a hardcore Orthodox man who refused to take instruction from a woman on religious grounds. Then there were our two British employees who threw a blackface skit at the commander’s welcome party for two stateside officials, because Brits are like that.

It’s funny that you bring up the Brits and their blackface skit in the context of KT’s defense of “free speech”.

My personal experience is that the Brits are culturally much freer to say potentially offensive stuff and express their political views in an honest way than Americans. Which is, you know, ironic.

536 jaunte  Apr 3, 2014 2:51:21pm

Some outrage options:

I’m big on grumpiness.

Original infographic by Pei Ying Lin.
uniquelang.peiyinglin.net

537 CuriousLurker  Apr 3, 2014 2:51:38pm

re: #524 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

There’s also a huge difference between believing gay marriage is morally wrong and thinking the government should enforce your morality.

I’ve met quite a few orthodox muslim women at Hunter. They defy stereotyping. I’ve met some that believe there shouldn’t be separation of church and state, but the vast majority have believed in separation of church and state—so they wouldn’t have supported prop 8.

Exactly, on all counts.

538 palomino  Apr 3, 2014 2:51:59pm

re: #531 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Well, the shooter was Hispanic, right? So the analysis makes perfect sense, to an all-white audience whose average age is “one foot in the grave.” (actually only 68)

539 Justanotherhuman  Apr 3, 2014 2:52:13pm

re: #522 Ming

I agree with you completely. I would NOT demand that someone else not work there. Now that I think about it, in 2009, I briefly did a little bit of consulting for a very small company, whose CEO had a large and prominent picture of the Hajj (Muslim pilgrimage in Mecca) in his office. It didn’t bother me in the slightest.

About “ostracizing”, not that I have the power to “ostracize” anyone, but I’d like to nit-pick a bit, going back to the idea of >consequences. Suppose that someone tells me that they had a job interview, and the interviewer brought up astrology to them. So what would I do? It really depends on how I feel about the person who tells me this. If I think the job would be a good thing for them, I’d wish them the best of luck. If I had the impression the job wasn’t a good choice, again for them, I’d try to give them helpful feedback.

For me, there’s no “script” for what to do when someone brings up astrology in a job interview. Instead, all I really care about is that person, my connection with that person, and what I can say or do that will be constructive.

But the one thing I would not encourage is the idea that if someone brings up astrology in a job interview, there should >never be any consequences, that it’s “wrong” for there to be consequences. Whether it’s brought up by the interviewer, or the interviewee, both are adults and should expect all kinds of consequences. For example (DUH) they might make a bad impression on the other person. Maybe if they bring up astrology often enough, other people will hear about this, and they’ll have a reputation like “this is someone who brought up astrology in a job interview.”

My point is that adults need to take responsibility for a lot of the stuff that we do, public and private, at work or at home. Before you share with other people how you feel about a particular belief system or political viewpoint or social group or whatever, it may be worthwhile to stop and think if this is really what you want to do, with this person, in this context.

Over my long life of work, I don’t recall religion or anything else controversial coming up in an interview. OTOH, I think it was assumed that being a blue eyed blonde white woman, I was probably a christian.

I’m an atheist, though. The old saw of never discussing religion and politics reigned for a lot of people who didn’t want confrontations.

540 William Barnett-Lewis  Apr 3, 2014 2:52:29pm

re: #530 palomino

A vote to overturn Citizens United? By whom? Do you even know how our system works?

He only cares that it gives him something to be concerned about.

541 CuriousLurker  Apr 3, 2014 2:52:51pm

re: #357 Floral Giraffe

My nephews BFF was at Cornell & commited suicide Monday. I am struggling, trying to help.

{{{Floral Giraffe}}}

542 EPR-radar  Apr 3, 2014 2:53:14pm

re: #427 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

Many ‘right-wing’ people in the US claim that they are the real supporters of social equality, that their way will actually lead to it, and that the left-wing way actually codifies inequality.

The outcomes of right-wing policies will not promote equality as advertised, and by now this is sufficiently obvious that it is hard to take right wing claims of supporting equality seriously.

Note that the GOP is in the paradoxical position of having to make populist noises to sooth its base (almost invariably inequality-enhancing appeals to racism, sexism homophobia etc.) in order to keep them on board for further wealth concentration. This GOP is clearly committed to an aristocracy of wealth in the US.

Admittedly it is harder to analyze the Democrats on a left vs. right scale, since they have recently become a coalition of everyone who is not a good match for the hard-right GOP.

543 palomino  Apr 3, 2014 2:53:24pm

re: #534 Killgore Trout

It’s a hypothetical.

A hypothetical for which nation? Certainly not the US, where Congress doesn’t have the constitutional power to overturn a SC decision.

Things that cannot by definition happen aren’t hypotheticals. They’re delusional. Or just stupid.

544 iossarian  Apr 3, 2014 2:53:25pm

re: #525 Killgore Trout

Think it can’t happen? It can and things like this are getting more likely is today’s intolerant political atmosphere.

Once again, this always could happen to people who held left/liberal views. There was this guy called McCarthy, he had a list…

I’ve actually got a serious question for you. Since you have no problem with the authorities using force to bust up disruptive protests, if Mozilla CEO guy had not resigned, but the board wanted him out, would you have supported the board if they’d called local police in to evict him from the CEO suite with a water cannon?

545 Decatur Deb  Apr 3, 2014 2:53:34pm

re: #535 iossarian

It’s funny that you bring up the Brits and their blackface skit in the context of KT’s defense of “free speech”.

My personal experience is that the Brits are culturally much freer to say potentially offensive stuff and express their political views in an honest way than Americans. Which is, you know, ironic.

Cultural expectations. They seemed truly confused when he ‘splained that that should never, ever happen again.

546 Decatur Deb  Apr 3, 2014 2:54:37pm

re: #536 jaunte

Some outrage options:

[Embedded image]

I’m big on grumpiness.

Original infographic by Pei Ying Lin.
uniquelang.peiyinglin.net

That chart helps if you want to outsource your outrage.

547 wrenchwench  Apr 3, 2014 2:56:40pm

re: #529 Justanotherhuman

Wow, this could really mess your car up.

[Embedded content]

Denton, heh.

548 jaunte  Apr 3, 2014 2:56:50pm

re: #546 Decatur Deb

Just considering whether to expand into exasperation or agitation.

549 GeneJockey  Apr 3, 2014 2:56:51pm

re: #435 Killgore Trout

I think the same rules should apply to CEO’s, bosses and managers. I don’t see why they wouldn’t.

Really simple. As a manager who’s gone through the training managers get - as a manager, and even more so as an officer of the company, you LEGALLY represent the company. That is, what you do in your job, the decisions you make, the company is legally responsible for.

The higher up the tree, the more this is so. The CEO is the public face of the company.

550 Justanotherhuman  Apr 3, 2014 2:57:17pm

re: #536 jaunte

Some outrage options:

[Embedded image]

I’m big on grumpiness.

Original infographic by Pei Ying Lin.
uniquelang.peiyinglin.net

Haha, I didn’t see “curmudgeon” on there which describes me a lot. : )

551 jaunte  Apr 3, 2014 2:58:00pm

re: #550 Justanotherhuman

I think that’s like a bundler of emotional states.

552 Killgore Trout  Apr 3, 2014 2:59:23pm

re: #543 palomino

A hypothetical for which nation? Certainly not the US, where Congress doesn’t have the constitutional power to overturn a SC decision.

Things that cannot by definition happen aren’t hypotheticals. They’re delusional. Or just stupid.

Congress could offer a legislative fix or constitutional amendment. In which case the hypothetical example still stands; Would people be less likely to publically support a legitimate political campaign if there was the fear that they’d lose their job or be socially hounded for doing so? I think the environment of punishing political opponents is unhealthy for democracy.

553 iossarian  Apr 3, 2014 3:01:24pm

re: #552 Killgore Trout

I think the environment of punishing political opponents is unhealthy for democracy.

By definition, democracy depends on people “punishing” their political opponents by voting for the other guy.

So the question really is about where to draw the line, not whether you’re allowed to oppose people’s views or not.

554 iossarian  Apr 3, 2014 3:01:58pm

re: #553 iossarian

by voting for the other guy

or gal. Sorry, female lizards.

555 Justanotherhuman  Apr 3, 2014 3:02:07pm

re: #551 jaunte

Ah, so “irritation” would cover it. : )

556 Ming  Apr 3, 2014 3:03:10pm

re: #525 Killgore Trout

That’s why I think it’s dangerous. Let’s suppose there’s a vote to overturn Citizen’s United. How many people are going to campaign for the legislation if there’s the fear that if it fails they will lose their jobs and be publicly hounded for the effort? Think it can’t happen? It can and things like this are getting more likely is today’s intolerant political atmosphere.

I agree that today’s intolerant political atmosphere, as you say, can have a chilling effect on free speech, donations, and political activity. I’m not at all happy about that, and it sounds like you feel the same way.

This doesn’t change how I feel about Mr. Eich. In my opinion, when he donated $1000 to California’s Prop. 8, he became part of, and encouraged, today’s intolerant political atmosphere.

In general, I wish that people weren’t so quick to jump all over one another’s viewpoints. But I still feel that before Mr. Eich plunked down $1000 to prevent other people from marrying, he should have thought things through. The guy is an Internet visionary, and he couldn’t see which way the wind was blowing?

557 wrenchwench  Apr 3, 2014 3:03:52pm

re: #554 iossarian

or gal. Sorry, female lizards.

Some species are ALL female.

558 iossarian  Apr 3, 2014 3:04:56pm

re: #557 wrenchwench

Some species are ALL female.

Bonus.

With that, I’m off for now.

559 klys  Apr 3, 2014 3:05:13pm

re: #553 iossarian

By definition, democracy depends on people “punishing” their political opponents by voting for the other guy.

So the question really is about where to draw the line, not whether you’re allowed to oppose people’s views or not.

And, like above: context matters.

The issues under discussion here? One side is out to restrict people’s rights on the basis of an inborn characteristic. Rights that have a direct and meaningful impact on people’s ability to live their lives.

This is not a disagreement about whether we should paint the Capitol white or eggshell.

560 wrenchwench  Apr 3, 2014 3:05:22pm

Apparently the same discussion is happening elsewhere.

561 wrenchwench  Apr 3, 2014 3:05:44pm

Back to work.

562 TedStriker  Apr 3, 2014 3:11:48pm

re: #531 Kragar

Classy…

563 TedStriker  Apr 3, 2014 3:14:34pm

re: #544 iossarian

Once again, this always could happen to people who held left/liberal views. There was this guy called McCarthy, he had a list…

I’ve actually got a serious question for you. Since you have no problem with the authorities using force to bust up disruptive protests, if Mozilla CEO guy had not resigned, but the board wanted him out, would you have supported the board if they’d called local police in to evict him from the CEO suite with a water cannon?

Pepper spray, it’s pepper spray with KT.

Get with the program!

///

564 Pie-onist Overlord  Apr 3, 2014 3:16:30pm

Ben is such a fucking tool.

565 Ming  Apr 3, 2014 3:17:41pm

I would like to say that I want to avoid the extreme of keeping tabs on how other people express themselves, like who’s been naughty and who’s been nice. The case of the CEO of a large company, Mozilla, is probably unusual. Then again, so is a proposition like Prop. 8, which (for a few years) prevented other people from marrying. So I think this case can be a very bad guide for the more “ordinary” situations where someone brings up their religion, or some political belief, or says something silly, at work or at home. We’re all human, we all make mistakes, and (in my opinion) there’s very rarely any reason to “escalate” disagreements.

Happily, most of life’s situations aren’t at the level of (a hypothetical example) “the CEO of Texaco gave $1000 to the Ku Klux Klan???!!!”

566 CuriousLurker  Apr 3, 2014 3:18:33pm

re: #559 klys

And, like above: context matters.

The issues under discussion here? One side is out to restrict people’s rights on the basis of an inborn characteristic. Rights that have a direct and meaningful impact on people’s ability to live their lives.

This is not a disagreement about whether we should paint the Capitol white or eggshell.

THIS.

567 jaunte  Apr 3, 2014 3:20:23pm

re: #564 Pie-onist Overlord

Seems like a business decision made by the board of directors would satisfy Ben.

568 dog philosopher  Apr 3, 2014 3:20:25pm

it is not about getting my oppressors to humanize me

i wonder who she thinks is ‘oppressing’ her and how

seems to me she is a pretty privileged person who is unlikely to have ever experienced anything any reasonable person would consider ‘oppression’

569 dog philosopher  Apr 3, 2014 3:21:44pm

re: #564 Pie-onist Overlord

“but leftist businessowners should fire religious Americans for their thoughts”

and right wing morons should never be embarrassed for their insistent habit of putting words into other people’s mouths

570 ObserverArt  Apr 3, 2014 3:21:48pm

re: #510 goddamnedfrank

He was listed as a Prop 8 financial backer on public political contribution forms, that’s what this is about. If his vote was disclosed he was the one who disclosed it.

Thanks Frank. That was a missing piece of this puzzle for me.

571 BongCrodny  Apr 3, 2014 3:22:47pm

re: #564 Pie-onist Overlord

Ben is such a fucking tool.

[Embedded content]

I beg to differ.

Tools have useful functions.

572 klys  Apr 3, 2014 3:25:24pm

re: #565 Ming

I would like to say that I want to avoid the extreme of keeping tabs on how other people express themselves, like who’s been naughty and who’s been nice. The case of the CEO of a large company, Mozilla, is probably unusual. They again, so is a proposition to prevent other people from marrying. So I think this case can be a very bad guide for the more “ordinary” situations where someone brings up their religion, or some political belief, or says something silly, at work or at home. We’re all human, we all make mistakes, and (in my opinion) there’s very rarely any reason to “escalate” disagreements.

Happily, most of life’s situations aren’t at the level of (a hypothetical example) “the CEO of Texaco gave $1000 to the Ku Klux Klan???!!!”

This was a whole bunch of factors pulled together: the CEO of a company (public face). A donation towards (so not just speaking out, but putting money towards) restricting rights to individuals on the basis of an inborn characteristic. (And just so we’re clear, this wouldn’t fly even if being gay was a choice, because religion is a fucking protected class from the point of view of the law and that is a choice.) In an area that prides itself on being (relatively) progressive on these issues, where it would have a serious impact on the company’s ability to deal with other players in the marketplace.

And like it or not, most of us (even those of us who try to be conscious of where our money is going, even indirectly) aren’t going to be researching everything 100%. But when a really egregious example gets stuck in your face, most people are willing to consider acting.

573 dog philosopher  Apr 3, 2014 3:25:56pm

re: #571 BongCrodny

I beg to differ.

Tools have useful functions.

he’s useful to people who want to keep the bullshit freshly spread

574 ObserverArt  Apr 3, 2014 3:29:17pm

re: #514 CuriousLurker

And you don’t believe the alternative would be even more “dangerous to a free society”? BTW, that whole thing with the halal store and “just checking to see if these rules are going to apply evenly”? Cheap shot. Did you actually expect anyone to say, “Oh, no, we don’t think homophobia is wrong when Muslims do it, only when other groups do”?

Oh, one other thing:

I shop at halal markets wearing my hijab, if you saw me in the one near your house you’d probably make some dumb-ass assumptions about where I stand on gay rights too. Because, y’know, Muslims are so addle-brained by their religion that they can’t distinguish between their privately held beliefs based on Islam and what is/isn’t acceptable for everyone (including themselves) based on the U.S. Constitution. Then there’s the whole hive-mind thing to contend with. //

I wonder what sort of assumptions the people at the market make about you based on where you live, your physical appearance, and your demeanor…

All I can say is bravo! And of course a well deserved upding.

And since you brought it up and it fits in many discussions here that touch on religion…I wonder how aware the major religions of the world are of the fact that many of their followers do not buy into the whole package?

I would love to see that polled, and then like Martin Luther, the results stapled to the doors of their churches.

Maybe then the religions and the people would get real about it all. If that were to happen think of all the outrageous outrages that would be eliminated.

As John Lennon said…Imagine!

575 Dr Lizardo  Apr 3, 2014 3:29:23pm

re: #568 dog philosopher

it is not about getting my oppressors to humanize me

i wonder who she thinks is ‘oppressing’ her and how

seems to me she is a pretty privileged person who is unlikely to have ever experienced anything any reasonable person would consider ‘oppression’

I fess up. It’s me.

I oppress everyone. In reality, I’m The Man.

Or so I was told many years ago, though in a decidedly humorous way. In the late 90s, I was briefly in a training class in Los Angeles, and to be brutally blunt, I was the only person of the Caucasian persuasion there; the rest of my classmates were African-American. The trainer said something about “….how The Man is keeping you down”, and of course, everyone promptly looked at me.

I responded the only way I could - I looked at the trainer, and said, “Well that’s just great; now you’ve blown my cover!” That got everyone laughing, including the trainer. And it made me some friends as well.

576 Targetpractice  Apr 3, 2014 3:29:45pm

One would think the fact that we’re talking about a CEO, one who serves at the sufferance of the board of directors and whose resignation can (and was) called for if they feel he is hurting the company, would be enough to overcome all the scenarios about being fired for having one type of opinion or another.

577 palomino  Apr 3, 2014 3:32:08pm

re: #552 Killgore Trout

Congress could offer a legislative fix or constitutional amendment. In which case the hypothetical example still stands; Would people be less likely to publically support a legitimate political campaign if there was the fear that they’d lose their job or be socially hounded for doing so? I think the environment of punishing political opponents is unhealthy for democracy.

You think there’s agreement in this Congress to pass an amendment to overturn Citizens? Or even to pass a legislative fix? The gop got what they wanted, they won’t go along with any of that. And I’m sure you know that an amendment would require 37 state legislatures as well. Wanna lay odds on that?

Isn’t it quite possible that it’s far more “unhealthy for democracy” to allow unlimited donations, effectively making the voice of Mr. X millions times louder than 99.999% of the rest of Americans? I think most would agree that oligarchy is “unhealthy” for democracy.

578 ObserverArt  Apr 3, 2014 3:40:33pm

re: #542 EPR-radar

The outcomes of right-wing policies will not promote equality as advertised, and by now this is sufficiently obvious that it is hard to take right wing claims of supporting equality seriously.

Note that the GOP is in the paradoxical position of having to make populist noises to sooth its base (almost invariably inequality-enhancing appeals to racism, sexism homophobia etc.) in order to keep them on board for further wealth concentration. This GOP is clearly committed to an aristocracy of wealth in the US.

Admittedly it is harder to analyze the Democrats on a left vs. right scale, since they have recently become a coalition of everyone who is not a good match for the hard-right GOP.

The first Republican that owns up to what you wrote and then decides the party needs to dump being concerned with their base base may just win and keep that party viable and modern. And your last paragraph is the key. There might be a time (now?) to decide the numbers you can gain by dumping the base may be bigger than the base. Or, even if not, they might get started on forcing the change and start to build for the future.

Which is why Rence Priebus is a complete sham as a chairman/strategist and is really only concerned about one thing…the money and power for backing their real backers…the 1%.

579 Ming  Apr 3, 2014 3:41:59pm

re: #518 klys

I stand by my principles enough to accept the consequences if someone wants to ‘punish’ me for my contribution to the anti-prop 8 groups. Seriously.

If you believe in something enough to donate money to the political process towards it, fucking own your belief. You can’t donate to restrict other people’s rights and then cry oppression when there are consequences; to construe it that way is kind of sickening to me, honestly.

Beautifully said.

Related to this, someone might make a contribution to a certain political cause, then months or years later change their mind. They can still take actions that reflect their changed mind, e.g. make a larger contribution to the opposite cause, speak out about their new-found views, etc.

There’s a very nice few pages in The Audacity of Hope, about how Senator Barack Obama became very friendly with Senator Robert Byrd, who a long time ago was a leader in the Ku Klux Klan.

So we’re always free to apologize, change our minds, look at things differently. But I like the way you put it: “stand by my principles enough to accept the consequences”.

580 dog philosopher  Apr 3, 2014 3:44:39pm

re: #575 Dr Lizardo

I fess up. It’s me.

I oppress everyone. In reality, I’m The Man.

Or so I was told many years ago, though in a decidedly humorous way. In the late 90s, I was briefly in a training class in Los Angeles, and to be brutally blunt, I was the only person of the Caucasian persuasion there; the rest of my classmates were African-American. The trainer said something about “….how The Man is keeping you down”, and of course, everyone promptly looked at me.

I responded the only way I could - I looked at the trainer, and said, “Well that’s just great; now you’ve blown my cover!” That got everyone laughing, including the trainer. And it made me some friends as well.

i don’t know what kind of ‘oppression’ suey is experiencing, but i do get the ‘you jews are different’ treatment here in california once or twice a year:

1) the other day yet another person volunteered out of a clear blue sky that it was obvious i was jewish because i “look so jewish”. sometimes i get asked to tell more about my ‘interesting ethnic heritage’…

2) a couple of people from various non u.s. countries were surprised to learn that my family has never been wealthy since they had heard that “all jews were rich”

3) somebody complimented us hebrews to me, saying how much they admired that all jewish parents trained their children in investing starting at an early age. “you don’t??? but it’s a good thing!”

i would like to hear suey tell her personal ‘oppression’ stories…

581 klys  Apr 3, 2014 3:47:20pm

re: #579 Ming

Beautifully said.

Related to this, someone might make a contribution to a certain political cause, then months or years later change their mind. They can still take actions that reflect their changed mind, e.g. make a larger contribution to the opposite cause, speak out about their new-found views, etc.

There’s a very nice few pages in The Audacity of Hope, about how Senator Barack Obama became very friendly with Senator Robert Byrd, who a long time ago was a leader in the Ku Klux Klan.

So we’re always free to apologize, change our minds, look at things differently. But I like the way you put it: “stand by my principles enough to accept the consequences”.

People can absolutely change; I can certainly respect the evolution of belief, especially when accompanied by statements that acknowledge what happened in the past.

The now-former CEO of Mozilla made it kind of apparent in some of the interviews this past week that he hadn’t changed his views and wished everyone would just stop talking about his bigotry, which he regarded as private.

No, your view that gay people shouldn’t be allowed to marry stopped being private when you made financial donations to enact that view in our public sphere.

582 GeneJockey  Apr 3, 2014 3:47:55pm

re: #568 dog philosopher

it is not about getting my oppressors to humanize me

i wonder who she thinks is ‘oppressing’ her and how

seems to me she is a pretty privileged person who is unlikely to have ever experienced anything any reasonable person would consider ‘oppression’

Well, I have come to the conclusion that I’m not in a position to make that call.

A while back, my Niece’s husband posted on FB that the idea that the Redskin’s name was offensive is ridiculous. I thought about it, and realized that he and I, two white guys, were not really the ones to determine that. I could ask my Sister-in-law, who’s half- Native American, or my Nephew and Nieces who are 1/4 - well, actually, I don’t have to, because they already said.

But that’s not the part I have a problem with:

it is not about getting my oppressors to humanize me

Right there, she dehumanizes the people she sees as oppressors. She DOES what she claims they do to her - marginalize, minimize, dehumanize. It’s a revolution, but she doesn’t want white people on her side. So, if the goal isn’t for everyone to stop dehumanizing other people, what IS her goal? Same Shit, Different Oppressors?

583 ObserverArt  Apr 3, 2014 3:51:25pm

re: #552 Killgore Trout

Congress could offer a legislative fix or constitutional amendment. In which case the hypothetical example still stands; Would people be less likely to publically support a legitimate political campaign if there was the fear that they’d lose their job or be socially hounded for doing so? I think the environment of punishing political opponents is unhealthy for democracy.

Uh, you sure are glossing over a lot you already know.

Let me be simple. Punishing political opponents has gone on since politics was created.

Big example…NRA. How many political careers have they cost with their over-the-top rhetoric & witch hunts?

#2…you may have heard of Grover Norquist. Do you have problems with him? He actually punishes people in his own party! Go figure.

#3…if you can’t see everyone’s concern with the Koch brothers and their connections to who knows how many fronted organizations that punish by having more money, then you don’t understand the abstracts of punishment.

Do you want to continue? I’m sure we can come up with a few more. Maybe a lot more.

584 NJDhockeyfan  Apr 3, 2014 3:52:21pm

re: #519 palomino

Is there really a good chain seafood restaurant anywhere?

No, that why I want a local place. I was a cook/sous chef for 14 years in various restaurants and the privately owned local places were always miles above the chains in quality and selection of different food. Chains suck.

585 RealityBasedSteve  Apr 3, 2014 4:17:33pm

re: #584 NJDhockeyfan

No, that why I want a local place. I was a cook/sous chef for 14 years in various restaurants and the privately owned local places were always miles above the chains in quality and selection of different food. Chains suck.

There are one or two places that specialize in Catfish, but nothing like the seafood places on the coasts.

RBS

586 Swift2991  Apr 3, 2014 4:54:34pm

She has a number of buzzwords and sadly, they seem to mean something to her. If she’s not out for “white allies,” then she’s largely succeeded.

587 Idle Drifter  Apr 3, 2014 9:20:06pm

re: #577 palomino

There could be compromise to the donation problem in that your name doesn’t become known to the public until after so many dollars have been spent. This would be more in line with protecting the privacy of citizens who can’t afford the exposure. Set the limit to that of say a $1000 to remain anonymous. To go over by one penny means that your donation becomes public knowledge. This would include all fund raising. Working for fund raising campaign would expose all participants as their collective fund raising would certainly exceed $1000.

It’s just an idea. Something that could be tweaked.

588 Idle Drifter  Apr 3, 2014 9:26:30pm

re: #586 Swift2991

This wave of Social Activists also know as Social Justice Warriors are a byproduct of the more radical political activists such as Jane Elliot coupled with the tactics of professional victimhood. Examples can be found on both left and right. However, the right has more examples of such coming close to wielding real power like Sarah Palin. On left we everyone in the “Ban Bossy” campaign. Which was more of an annoyance if not giant face palm moment.

589 John Vreeland  Apr 3, 2014 10:38:57pm

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Once Praised, the Settlement to Help Sickened BP Oil Spill Workers Leaves Most With Nearly Nothing When a deadly explosion destroyed BP’s Deepwater Horizon drilling rig in the Gulf of Mexico, 134 million gallons of crude erupted into the sea over the next three months — and tens of thousands of ordinary people were hired ...
Cheechako
Yesterday
Views: 68 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Texas County at Center of Border Fight Is Overwhelmed by Migrant Deaths EAGLE PASS, Tex. - The undertaker lighted a cigarette and held it between his latex-gloved fingers as he stood over the bloated body bag lying in the bed of his battered pickup truck. The woman had been fished out ...
Cheechako
4 days ago
Views: 167 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 1