Amazing Video: Meteorite Narrowly Misses Norwegian Skydiver

What are the odds?
Weird • Views: 16,993

YouTube

A Norwegian man narrowly avoided being hit by a meteorite while skydiving and has captured the first ever video footage of a meteorite travelling through the air after its flame has gone out.

Anders Helstrup, who belongs to the Oslo Parachute Club said “I got the feeling that there was something, but I didn’t register what was happening,”

“When we stopped the film, we could clearly see something that looked like a stone. At first it crossed my mind that it had been packed into a parachute, but it’s simply too big for that.”

More: Video: Meteorite Narrowly Misses Norwegian Skydiver

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272 comments
1 John Vreeland  Apr 4, 2014 4:36:06pm

Odds are low. At least one person has been hit by one, however, and there has been automobile damage.

The comments on Youtube are mostly useless. A meteor of that size at that altitude would have been traveling at terminal velocity, just as a rock of that size dropped from an airplane, or one dropped from the parachute above him.

2 Charles Johnson  Apr 4, 2014 5:54:03pm

re: #1 John Vreeland

Odds are low. At least one person has been hit by one, however, and there has been automobile damage.

The comments on Youtube are mostly useless. A meteor of that size at that altitude would have been traveling at terminal velocity, just as a rock of that size dropped from an airplane, or one dropped from the parachute above him.

Exactly.

3 Charles Johnson  Apr 4, 2014 5:54:43pm

Terminal velocity can be a hard concept to grasp.

4 b_sharp  Apr 4, 2014 5:55:36pm

That was travelling quite slow.

Advantage of a thick atmosphere.

5 thedopefishlives  Apr 4, 2014 5:56:20pm

re: #1 John Vreeland

Odds are low. At least one person has been hit by one, however, and there has been automobile damage.

The comments on Youtube are mostly useless. A meteor of that size at that altitude would have been traveling at terminal velocity, just as a rock of that size dropped from an airplane, or one dropped from the parachute above him.

If it had still been decelerating (through the upper atmosphere), it would have been on fire.

6 klys  Apr 4, 2014 5:56:21pm

re: #3 Charles Johnson

Terminal velocity can be a hard concept to grasp.

Watch Mythbusters! Learn science!

7 Charles Johnson  Apr 4, 2014 5:57:38pm

re: #5 thedopefishlives

If it had still been decelerating (through the upper atmosphere), it would have been on fire.

At skydiving altitudes, they’re far below the upper atmosphere where the incendiary stuff happens.

8 GeneJockey  Apr 4, 2014 5:58:04pm

re: #6 klys

Watch Mythbusters! Learn science!

Wait, you mean a penny dropped from the top of the Empire State building won’t catch fire and break the sound barrier before leaving an enormous crater in the sidewalk?

How disappointing.
///

9 Targetpractice  Apr 4, 2014 5:58:14pm

Are we sure this isn’t the first warning shot of an interplanetary war?

//

10 thedopefishlives  Apr 4, 2014 5:58:32pm

re: #7 Charles Johnson

At skydiving altitudes, they’re far below the upper atmosphere where the incendiary stuff happens.

Precisely so.

11 klys  Apr 4, 2014 5:58:47pm

One of the graduate schools I turned down would have been studying the thermodynamics of the early solar system, relying on mineral compositions from rocks like these.

The roads not traveled…

12 b.d.  Apr 4, 2014 5:59:23pm

On one hand you have science and video evidence while on the other hand there are no meteorites in The Bible.

FAKE!!!!

//

13 Charles Johnson  Apr 4, 2014 6:00:35pm

It might be a hoax, but if so it’s a pretty good one. It wouldn’t be the first time human beings have had close encounters with meteorites.

14 GeneJockey  Apr 4, 2014 6:00:46pm

re: #9 Targetpractice

Are we sure this isn’t the first warning shot of an interplanetary war?

//

This one was a ranging shot. Next, the Bugs will take out Rio de Janeiro.

15 b.d.  Apr 4, 2014 6:00:52pm

re: #9 Targetpractice

Are we sure this isn’t the first warning shot of an interplanetary war?

//

Aliens hate Norwegians, can’t say I blame them!

//

16 Targetpractice  Apr 4, 2014 6:01:51pm

re: #14 GeneJockey

This one was a ranging shot. Next, the Bugs will take out Rio de Janeiro.

Join the Mobile Infantry! Service guarantees citizenship!

/Would you like to know more?

17 b.d.  Apr 4, 2014 6:02:15pm

re: #13 Charles Johnson

It might be a hoax, but if so it’s a pretty good one. It wouldn’t be the first time human beings have had close encounters with meteorites.

Never trust a skydiver.

//

18 GeneJockey  Apr 4, 2014 6:02:31pm

re: #16 Targetpractice

Join the Mobile Infantry! Service guarantees citizenship!

/Would you like to know more?

“YOU APES WANT TO LIVE FOREVER?!?”

19 Aunty Entity Dragon  Apr 4, 2014 6:03:52pm

re: #1 John Vreeland

Odds are low. At least one person has been hit by one, however, and there has been automobile damage.

The comments on Youtube are mostly useless. A meteor of that size at that altitude would have been traveling at terminal velocity, just as a rock of that size dropped from an airplane, or one dropped from the parachute above him.

Depending on the initial re-entry velocity and angle of re-entry. Something coming at around 12,000-17,000 mph at first…yeah, it may well have slowed down enough.

Something coming in at 50,000 to 60,000…good luck…

20 dog philosopher  Apr 4, 2014 6:03:57pm

Colbert favored to replace Letterman

how would that work? would he continue to do his character and just move the whole show as is to letterman’s timeslot?

21 dog philosopher  Apr 4, 2014 6:04:43pm

re: #15 b.d.

Aliens hate Norwegians, can’t say I blame them!

//

now, now, there’s nothing wrong with being norwegian

nothing at all

23 Skip Intro  Apr 4, 2014 6:05:15pm

re: #9 Targetpractice

Are we sure this isn’t the first warning shot of an interplanetary war?

//

You should be a producer over at CNN. I think they could go wall to wall with this.

24 Targetpractice  Apr 4, 2014 6:05:16pm

re: #20 dog philosopher

Colbert favored to replace Letterman

how would that work? would he continue to do his character and just move the whole show as is to letterman’s timeslot?

Good question. No offense to Stephen, I’m sure he’s a great comedian out of character, but most folks tune into his show to see the character he plays.

25 Decatur Deb  Apr 4, 2014 6:05:40pm

If he was under canopy (c. 20 ft/sec), and the rock was at it’s unique terminal velocity, a couple hundred mph, it would still have spoiled his day.

His comment about thinking it was dropped from someone’s opening chute is funny—in the ancient days of jumping, people would add ‘interest’ to a jump by packing a couple pounds of flour or a streamer of toilet paper between each of a buddy’s 28 flaked panels. Such SFX were sometimes controversial.

26 thedopefishlives  Apr 4, 2014 6:05:48pm

re: #22 klys

I find myself wanting to go to Sweden, the land of my wife’s family. The funny thing is, I actually want to go there more than she does.

27 Targetpractice  Apr 4, 2014 6:06:39pm

re: #23 Skip Intro

You should be a producer over at CNN. I think they could go wall to wall with this.

“Natural phenomenon or the beginnings of the end of our species? Tune into tonight when we simulate what it would be like to fight against an FTL-capable species with a flight simulator.”

28 Decatur Deb  Apr 4, 2014 6:06:43pm

re: #17 b.d.

Never trust a skydiver.

//

Life, OK. Wife, no.

29 klys  Apr 4, 2014 6:07:12pm

re: #26 thedopefishlives

I find myself wanting to go to Sweden, the land of my wife’s family. The funny thing is, I actually want to go there more than she does.

Going back (SANS group of teenagers I really wanted nothing to do with, less than a month after my best friend died in a car accident) is high on the list.

I’d graduated high school about 24 hours before we left.

30 GeneJockey  Apr 4, 2014 6:07:15pm

re: #20 dog philosopher

Colbert favored to replace Letterman

how would that work? would he continue to do his character and just move the whole show as is to letterman’s timeslot?

Well, Letterman’s interviews used to suck, and Colbert’s tend to be the point in the program I look for another channel, so that wouldn’t be much of a change…

31 thedopefishlives  Apr 4, 2014 6:08:25pm

re: #29 klys

Going back (SANS group of teenagers I really wanted nothing to do with, less than a month after my best friend died in a car accident) is high on the list.

I’d graduated high school about 24 hours before we left.

This is why I didn’t go on our senior trip. I hated my classmates and, while not my best friend, she was still a good friend and died just before graduation.

32 Aunty Entity Dragon  Apr 4, 2014 6:09:17pm

re: #29 klys

When was that trip?

33 klys  Apr 4, 2014 6:09:44pm

re: #31 thedopefishlives

This is why I didn’t go on our senior trip. I hated my classmates and, while not my best friend, she was still a good friend and died just before graduation.

I played in a handbell choir.

Our first stop, about 5 hours after landing, was the US Embassy in Oslo. Then we played at lots of churches and did homestays, which was actually lovely.

34 klys  Apr 4, 2014 6:10:24pm

re: #32 Aunty Entity Dragon

When was that trip?

2003.

35 freetoken  Apr 4, 2014 6:11:33pm

Wait… that rock is falling faster than the bigger human…

GALILEO LIED!!!

36 Aunty Entity Dragon  Apr 4, 2014 6:11:49pm

re: #34 klys

2003.

And you’re complaining you were young then???!

I graduated in 19bloody85!

Lovely pix, though :)

37 freetoken  Apr 4, 2014 6:12:21pm

Clearly we need to get PolitiFact in on this case.

38 klys  Apr 4, 2014 6:12:28pm

re: #36 Aunty Entity Dragon

And you’re complaining you were young then???!

I graduated in 19bloody85!

Lovely pix, though :)

I was born in 85. ;)

39 Decatur Deb  Apr 4, 2014 6:12:34pm

re: #33 klys

I played in a handbell choir.

Our first stop, about 5 hours after landing, was the US Embassy in Oslo. Then we played at lots of churches and did homestays, which was actually lovely.

[Embedded image]

Handbell choir.
Norwegian homecoming.
If you name a covered dish you win the Garrison Keillor Award for today.

40 thedopefishlives  Apr 4, 2014 6:12:53pm

re: #34 klys

2003.

Heh. I graduated in 2002. Our seniors, typical spoiled brats, went to some tourist destination in Mexico to drink and sex with each other. Two more reasons I didn’t go.

41 Targetpractice  Apr 4, 2014 6:13:06pm

re: #38 klys

I was born in 85. ;)

You young whippersnapper, I was born in ‘84! GET OFF MY LAWN!!!

//

42 Aunty Entity Dragon  Apr 4, 2014 6:13:38pm

re: #35 freetoken

Wait… that rock is falling faster than the bigger human…

GALILEO LIED!!!

I wonder if it might not have been from the aircraft after all. Did the airplane take off from a rough field? Lots of those little skydiving charter flights take off from grass or dirt strips. It is possible to have gunk and so forth accrue to your undercarriage.

43 klys  Apr 4, 2014 6:13:42pm

re: #41 Targetpractice

You young whippersnapper, I was born in ‘84! GET OFF MY LAWN!!!

//

YOUNGER LIZARDS UNITE AGAINST THE NOSTALGIA LEAGUE

44 klys  Apr 4, 2014 6:14:37pm

re: #39 Decatur Deb

Handbell choir.
Norwegian homecoming.
If you name a covered dish you win the Garrison Keillor Award for today.

Well fuck, now there’s pressure.

What about that green jello salad that stays in the shape of the mold? Not the translucent one, the creamy one. That has a name that I can’t remember but I adored.

/I’ve done my share of potlucks, I grew up Methodist dammit.

45 goddamnedfrank  Apr 4, 2014 6:15:18pm

Assuming it was a meteorite that had already slowed. Would it have dumped enough heat to not be glowing at least a dull red? I don’t know enough about the physics here but the thermal conductivity of air kind of sucks and I doubt enough time would have elapsed for the heat to escape via radiance alone.

46 GeneJockey  Apr 4, 2014 6:15:57pm

re: #36 Aunty Entity Dragon

And you’re complaining you were young then???!

I graduated in 19bloody85!

Lovely pix, though :)

I graduated in 19bloody SEVENTY 5, so there!

47 Aunty Entity Dragon  Apr 4, 2014 6:16:11pm

re: #41 Targetpractice

You young whippersnapper, I was born in ‘84! GET OFF MY LAWN!!!

//

I was buying classic Cyndi Lauper on vinyl and watch Miami Vice on my low grade 2 head VHS! Get off my plastic cover taupe sofa!

/// heh!

48 Aunty Entity Dragon  Apr 4, 2014 6:16:37pm

re: #45 goddamnedfrank

Assuming it was a meteorite that had already slowed. Would it have dumped enough heat to not be glowing at least a dull red? I don’t know enough about the physics here but the thermal conductivity of air kind of sucks and I doubt enough time would have elapsed for the heat to escape via radiance alone.

Might depend on the composition.

49 GeneJockey  Apr 4, 2014 6:17:11pm

re: #43 klys

YOUNGER LIZARDS UNITE AGAINST THE NOSTALGIA LEAGUE

Why, I remember a time when I was a young man, and WE united against the nostalgia league. I can recall it just like it was yesterday….

50 thedopefishlives  Apr 4, 2014 6:17:22pm

re: #45 goddamnedfrank

Assuming it was a meteorite that had already slowed. Would it have dumped enough heat to not be glowing at least a dull red? I don’t know enough about the physics here but the thermal conductivity of air kind of sucks and I doubt enough time would have elapsed for the heat to escape via radiance alone.

By the time it gets that low, it’s passed through some severely cold air and shed a great deal of heat. Depends on the composition of the meteorite, but if it’s metallic, it’s certainly plausible.

51 klys  Apr 4, 2014 6:17:38pm

re: #45 goddamnedfrank

Assuming it was a meteorite that had already slowed. Would it have dumped enough heat to not be glowing at least a dull red? I don’t know enough about the physics here but the thermal conductivity of air kind of sucks and I doubt enough time would have elapsed for the heat to escape via radiance alone.

Yes.

Although the thermal conductivity of air is not great, the effect is increased by velocity. Typical temperatures for a rock to glow (subject to normal disclaimers) are still going to be on the order of 800degC, roughly - even for a dull orange (red really isn’t likely unless we’re talking about an iron meteorite here, which is possible but less likely - rocky meteorites being more common). It’s quite feasible for it to have dropped below that at this point.

52 GeneJockey  Apr 4, 2014 6:18:00pm

re: #38 klys

I was born in 85. ;)

Christ! My not-yet-wife and I had already broken up twice by then!

53 klys  Apr 4, 2014 6:19:04pm

Fun fact: materials of the type that form rocks are generally on the order of 1400degC or higher before we’re talking white-hot.

I AM LESS YOUNGER HERE.

54 Political Atheist  Apr 4, 2014 6:19:17pm

re: #45 goddamnedfrank

Assuming it was a meteorite that had already slowed. Would it have dumped enough heat to not be glowing at least a dull red? I don’t know enough about the physics here but the thermal conductivity of air kind of sucks and I doubt enough time would have elapsed for the heat to escape via radiance alone.

I suspect when rocky meteors hit certain altitudes where the air thickens they burst apart exposing inner parts to scatter and not necessarily be hot at all.

55 Decatur Deb  Apr 4, 2014 6:19:31pm

re: #45 goddamnedfrank

Assuming it was a meteorite that had already slowed. Would it have dumped enough heat to not be glowing at least a dull red? I don’t know enough about the physics here but the thermal conductivity of air kind of sucks and I doubt enough time would have elapsed for the heat to escape via radiance alone.

Larger meteorites are said to chill quite fast after landing, heat tending to stay near the surface while the interior is space-cold. Size and iron/stony would make a diff.

56 RealityBasedSteve  Apr 4, 2014 6:20:10pm

re: #38 klys

I was born in 85. ;)

I may very well have clothes older than you…

RBS

57 klys  Apr 4, 2014 6:20:25pm

re: #56 RealityBasedSteve

I may very well have clothes older than you…

RBS

My husband probably does.

58 Decatur Deb  Apr 4, 2014 6:20:46pm

re: #46 GeneJockey

I graduated in 19bloody SEVENTY 5, so there!

Too easy. 1958. And all my classmates were probably virgins.

59 klys  Apr 4, 2014 6:21:03pm

re: #55 Decatur Deb

Larger meteorites are said to chill quite fast after landing, heat tending to stay near the surface while the interior is space-cold. Size and iron/stony would make a diff.

It turns out that rock is a shitty conductor of heat! But a fantastic insulator.

60 Aunty Entity Dragon  Apr 4, 2014 6:21:11pm

Since we are on this topic…here is a lovely bolide impact damage calculator from Purdue University.

Plug in your variables and blow up civilization!
purdue.edu

10 mile wide nickel/iron asteroid traveling at 75,000 mph and striking the surface at a 65% inclination in 20,000 feet of ocean depth?

Have at it!

61 klys  Apr 4, 2014 6:21:28pm

re: #58 Decatur Deb

Too easy. 1958. And all my classmates were probably virgins.

I think my dad was born in 1958.

62 GeneJockey  Apr 4, 2014 6:21:32pm

re: #56 RealityBasedSteve

I may very well have clothes older than you…

RBS

I definitely do. I have a football jersey from 1974, and a T-shirt from 1978.

63 Aunty Entity Dragon  Apr 4, 2014 6:22:07pm

re: #53 klys

Fun fact: materials of the type that form rocks are generally on the order of 1400degC or higher before we’re talking white-hot.

I AM LESS YOUNGER HERE.

Are you a geology person too?

64 Decatur Deb  Apr 4, 2014 6:22:09pm

re: #60 Aunty Entity Dragon

Since we are on this topic…here is a lovely bolide impact damage calculator from Purdue University.

Plug in your variables and blow up civilization!
purdue.edu

10 mile wide nickel/iron asteroid traveling at 75,000 mph and striking the surface at a 65% inclination in 20,000 feet of ocean depth?

Have at it!

Don’t let Varek have that!!

65 Skip Intro  Apr 4, 2014 6:22:18pm

re: #58 Decatur Deb

Can I ask graduated from what, just so I can get a better sense of my place in the lizard universe?

66 thedopefishlives  Apr 4, 2014 6:22:45pm

re: #60 Aunty Entity Dragon

Since we are on this topic…here is a lovely bolide impact damage calculator from Purdue University.

Plug in your variables and blow up civilization!
purdue.edu

10 mile wide nickel/iron asteroid traveling at 75,000 mph and striking the surface at a 65% inclination in 20,000 feet of ocean depth?

Have at it!

FUN SCIENCE FACT: The depth an object is able to penetrate into another object, surprisingly, has nothing to do with its velocity. It all has to do with relative densities. The velocity mostly determines how big the crater will be.

67 klys  Apr 4, 2014 6:22:49pm

re: #63 Aunty Entity Dragon

Are you a geology person too?

I …may have a Ph.D. in geology. BUT I SWEAR I KNOW NOTHING ABOUT ROCKS.

However, if you’re curious about silicate melts I can talk your ear off until you beg for mercy.

68 GeneJockey  Apr 4, 2014 6:23:19pm

re: #67 klys

I …may have a Ph.D. in geology. BUT I SWEAR I KNOW NOTHING ABOUT ROCKS.

However, if you’re curious about silicate melts I can talk your ear off until you beg for mercy.

Till my eyes get all glassy, you might say…

69 thedopefishlives  Apr 4, 2014 6:23:44pm

re: #61 klys

I think my dad was born in 1958.

My dad was. My wife’s dad was born in 1940.

70 klys  Apr 4, 2014 6:23:45pm

re: #68 GeneJockey

Till my eyes get all glassy, you might say…

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA OH YOU HAVE NO IDEA.

Also, I salute you.

71 jaunte  Apr 4, 2014 6:24:13pm
72 freetoken  Apr 4, 2014 6:24:21pm

re: #66 thedopefishlives

FUN SCIENCE FACT: The depth an object is able to penetrate into another object, surprisingly, has nothing to do with its velocity. It all has to do with relative densities. The velocity mostly determines how big the crater will be.

Yeah, but.. does size matter?

73 jaunte  Apr 4, 2014 6:24:36pm

“The sensor readings show that 26 explosions more powerful than a kiloton of TNT have been detected since 2001, “all of which are due to asteroid impacts,” said former astronaut Ed Lu, the foundation’s CEO.”

74 Aunty Entity Dragon  Apr 4, 2014 6:25:17pm

re: #67 klys

I …may have a Ph.D. in geology. BUT I SWEAR I KNOW NOTHING ABOUT ROCKS.

However, if you’re curious about silicate melts I can talk your ear off until you beg for mercy.

Tectosilicates or orthosilicates?

I prefer refractive indices in polarized light! Like…pretty colors, maaaaan!

Oh…and those shocked quartz grains from bolide impacts on thin section under a microscope….

75 klys  Apr 4, 2014 6:25:28pm

My mother put together a book (it’s sitting on the other desk) of photos of me at graduations through the years. Starting with age 4 wearing my aunt’s college graduation cap and ending with my Ph.D.

Irony is, of course, that I’m still not finished.

76 GeneJockey  Apr 4, 2014 6:25:39pm

re: #69 thedopefishlives

My dad was. My wife’s dad was born in 1940.

My Dad was born in 1918.

77 GeneJockey  Apr 4, 2014 6:26:23pm

re: #75 klys

My mother put together a book (it’s sitting on the other desk) of photos of me at graduations through the years. Starting with age 4 wearing my aunt’s college graduation cap and ending with my Ph.D.

Irony is, of course, that I’m still not finished.

Is there more room in the back of the book? Or will she have to start over in a bigger book?

78 Single-handed sailor  Apr 4, 2014 6:26:24pm

re: #56 RealityBasedSteve

I may very well have clothes older than you…

RBS

I know I have clothes older than klys.

79 GeneJockey  Apr 4, 2014 6:26:57pm

re: #78 Single-handed sailor

I know I have clothes older than klys.

But, do you still wear them?

80 Stanley Sea  Apr 4, 2014 6:27:06pm

I was a wild child in 1985. Just did the South road trip w my bro visiting the parents and siblings. Fantastic 80’s stations we found. It was great.

81 klys  Apr 4, 2014 6:27:40pm

re: #74 Aunty Entity Dragon

Tectosilicates or orthosilicates?

I prefer refractive indices in polarized light! Like…pretty colors, maaaaan!

Ooo, I think I have some photos you would enjoy. Gimme a minute here.

And …fuck. Can I get those in mole percents? I started life as a chemist. >.> (No, actually, orthosilicates and higher, generally, looking at primarily aluminosilicate melts (with some dabbling in silicates) commonly used in applications such as smartphone screens and LCD monitors. I could pretty easily get a job if I wanted to do research. TOO BAD I’M ALLERGIC TO IT.)

82 Decatur Deb  Apr 4, 2014 6:27:44pm

re: #65 Skip Intro

Can I ask graduated from what, just so I can get a better sense of my place in the lizard universe?

That would have been the highschool portion of a Franciscan seminary, though we went straight into the first 2 years of college without ceremony. At about that time it was the smallest accredited college in the US. (It was an 8 yr course, with a couple years set aside to study the ‘rule’.)

83 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce  Apr 4, 2014 6:27:48pm

At 1:02 in the video, you can clearly see that the laptop has entirely too much shit running in the system tray.

84 klys  Apr 4, 2014 6:28:09pm

re: #77 GeneJockey

Is there more room in the back of the book? Or will she have to start over in a bigger book?

I think, at this point, she’s said fuck it.

85 Single-handed sailor  Apr 4, 2014 6:28:23pm

re: #78 Single-handed sailor

I know I have clothes older than klys.

my sleeping bags are from 1980.

86 Single-handed sailor  Apr 4, 2014 6:29:58pm

re: #79 GeneJockey

But, do you still wear them?

yes, yes I do. Ski-type sweaters my aunt knit for me in the early 80s, still great condition, wear them every winter.

87 dog philosopher  Apr 4, 2014 6:30:19pm

o.t. anybody know the name of the ancient pre beatles rock n roll song based on the urban legend where the guy goes to return the sweater his date left in the car but it turns out she died long ago?

88 Aunty Entity Dragon  Apr 4, 2014 6:30:36pm

re: #81 klys

Ooo, I think I have some photos you would enjoy. Gimme a minute here.

And …fuck. Can I get those in mole percents? I started life as a chemist. >.> (No, actually, orthosilicates and higher, generally, looking at primarily aluminosilicate melts (with some dabbling in silicates) commonly used in applications such as smartphone screens and LCD monitors. I could pretty easily get a job if I wanted to do research. TOO BAD I’M ALLERGIC TO IT.)

I’m still looking at a grad program, but I will likely go with structural geology at Duke or UNC Chapel HIll. I don’t have the math background for seismology and I haven’t had geochemistry. I finally (after 20 years away) finished my undergrad in geology a couple of years ago and I am finishing degree number two in history right now (doubling my chances of getting picked up somewhere)

90 RealityBasedSteve  Apr 4, 2014 6:31:28pm

Born in 58, Grad. HS Class of 76.

RBS

91 Stanley Sea  Apr 4, 2014 6:32:54pm

re: #90 RealityBasedSteve

Born in 58, Grad. HS Class of 76.

RBS

You knew Zeppelin like we wished we knew Zeppelin. Eh?

92 Decatur Deb  Apr 4, 2014 6:33:01pm

re: #87 dog philosopher

o.t. anybody know the name of the ancient pre beatles rock n roll song based on the urban legend where the guy goes to return the sweater his date left in the car but it turns out she died long ago?

google.com

93 Stanley Sea  Apr 4, 2014 6:33:23pm

I saw REM for free.

94 dog philosopher  Apr 4, 2014 6:34:18pm

re: #92 Decatur Deb

google.com

no, actually i got it:

strange things happen in this world

95 klys  Apr 4, 2014 6:34:30pm

re: #89 klys

This was a shitty sample from a glass point of view, but the photo won me $75 in the science as art contest. Mullite crystals.

That being said, data still got published from this sample, heavily annotated and with substantially larger error bars on the numbers for it.

These fuckers were bitches to make.

96 Skip Intro  Apr 4, 2014 6:35:47pm

re: #94 dog philosopher

no, actually i got it:

strange things happen in this world

Songs like that were real big in the pre-Beatles era. Kinda weird, actually.

97 Aunty Entity Dragon  Apr 4, 2014 6:35:57pm

re: #89 klys

This was a shitty sample from a glass point of view, but the photo won me $75 in the science as art contest. Mullite crystals.

You made me pull out my Neese optical book… :)

That is some fairly high second order color…from 600 to over 1000 I would say.

Sweet!

98 Decatur Deb  Apr 4, 2014 6:36:46pm

re: #96 Skip Intro

Songs like that were real big in the pre-Beatles era. Kinda weird, actually.

James Dean Effect.

99 klys  Apr 4, 2014 6:37:45pm

re: #97 Aunty Entity Dragon

You made me pull out my Neese optical book… :)

That is some fairly high second order color…from 600 to over 1000 I would say.

Sweet!

Haha, you just spent more time looking at it than I ever did. The main goal of microscope time: can I see crystals? If yes, curse a lot, grind it up, try again. If no, throw it on the NMR.

This one, of course, I couldn’t get hot enough. (The rounded edges indicate the crystals were in equilibrium with the melt; I have a few other views that show the quench crystals radiating off.) Consider that our furnace topped out at 1700degC.

100 Skip Intro  Apr 4, 2014 6:38:09pm

re: #98 Decatur Deb

James Dean Effect.

Really? I never thought of that, because in every one I remember it was the girl who died.

101 Decatur Deb  Apr 4, 2014 6:39:40pm

re: #100 Skip Intro

Really? I never thought of that, because in every one I remember it was the girl who died.

Youtube Video

102 Skip Intro  Apr 4, 2014 6:41:18pm

Ah, I remember one. Leader of the Pack (I think).

I can’t say I ever heard of The Diamonds, though.

103 Aunty Entity Dragon  Apr 4, 2014 6:41:19pm

re: #99 klys

Haha, you just spent more time looking at it than I ever did. The main goal of microscope time: can I see crystals? If yes, curse a lot, grind it up, try again. If no, throw it on the NMR.

This one, of course, I couldn’t get hot enough. (The rounded edges indicate the crystals were in equilibrium with the melt; I have a few other views that show the quench crystals radiating off.) Consider that our furnace topped out at 1700degC.

I spent a year on optical mineralogy…and it was a blast! (and I got a department honors award…which was nice)

The department at Guilford College blend optical into first semester mineralogy as well as igneous, metamorphic and sedimentary petrology in the second semester.

Lots and lots of thin sections under the polarized light scope.

I had a few headaches.

104 wheat-doggha -- oo bird outside my window  Apr 4, 2014 6:41:23pm

re: #15 b.d.

Aliens hate Norwegians, can’t say I blame them!

//

You must be Swedish.
//

105 thedopefishlives  Apr 4, 2014 6:41:48pm

re: #104 wheat-doggha — oo bird outside my window

You must be Swedish.
//

Ya, sure, ya betcha.

106 Bear  Apr 4, 2014 6:42:36pm

While not clothes, I found a quilt made by a great something grandmother back in 1858.

107 Decatur Deb  Apr 4, 2014 6:42:40pm

re: #102 Skip Intro

Ah, I remember one. Leader of the Pack (I think).

I can’t say I ever heard of The Diamonds, though.

Cut their 45s on clay tablets.

108 Charles Johnson  Apr 4, 2014 6:43:00pm

Justice Dept. Continues to Obstruct Megaupload Users’ Efforts to Get Their Files Back

Gasp. It’s almost as if Megaupload was profiting from enabling massive theft of copyrighted material. Imagine that.

109 klys  Apr 4, 2014 6:43:13pm

re: #103 Aunty Entity Dragon

I spent a year on optical mineralogy…and it was a blast! (and I got a department honors award…which was nice)

The department at Guilford College blend optical into first semester mineralogy as well as igneous, metamorphic and sedimentary petrology in the second semester.

Lots and lots of thin sections under the polarized light scope.

I had a few headaches.

Like I said, I started life as a chemist. In that my undergrad degree is in chemistry, and I’d only taken a “rocks for jocks” course senior year when it became apparent I was probably going to be applying for geology programs for grad school. Which, actually, was all my school offered in that area.

Now I have three degrees in three different disciplines and I’m aiming to work in a 4th. I am the poster child for not knowing what I want to do when I grow up.

110 Decatur Deb  Apr 4, 2014 6:43:36pm

re: #106 Bear

While not clothes, I found a quilt made by a great something grandmother back in 1858.

Museum quality, by now.

111 Political Atheist  Apr 4, 2014 6:44:49pm

re: #53 klys

Fun fact: materials of the type that form rocks are generally on the order of 1400degC or higher before we’re talking white-hot.

I AM LESS YOUNGER HERE.

Just a little example of red hot-Graphite crucible, molten silver bearing brass alloy at about 1900F. Working Metals

112 freetoken  Apr 4, 2014 6:44:50pm

re: #105 thedopefishlives

Ya, sure, ya betcha.

Youtube Video

113 Aunty Entity Dragon  Apr 4, 2014 6:44:56pm

re: #99 klys

I had no idea there were so many of us rockheads here at LGF. ;)

Any ways, gotta go have some family time! See you later this weekend :)

114 klys  Apr 4, 2014 6:45:59pm

re: #111 Political Atheist

Just a little example of red hot-Graphite crucible, molten silver bearing brass alloy at about 1900F. Working Metals

Going by the eyeball thermometer, I would say that works out to …1100degC?

Hah, Google tells me 1037degC.

I’ll take that.

115 freetoken  Apr 4, 2014 6:46:00pm

re: #111 Political Atheist

Just a little example of red hot-Graphite crucible, molten silver bearing brass alloy at about 1900F.

Is silver added for the finish, or for workability?

116 dog philosopher  Apr 4, 2014 6:46:39pm

re: #94 dog philosopher

no, actually i got it:

strange things happen in this world

by the way, let me warn everybody against actually attempting to listen to this track

unless by chance you are into e.g. justin beiber

117 klys  Apr 4, 2014 6:48:15pm

re: #111 Political Atheist

Just a little example of red hot-Graphite crucible, molten silver bearing brass alloy at about 1900F. Working Metals

The crucible that you cannot see in my photo because it is white hot is platinum-rhodium alloy, chosen both for non-reactivity and because it doesn’t melt/burn up at 1700degC. Alumina ones were bad for contamination issues.

Even the Pt ones would come out with evidence of being at heat, because at that temperature you are past the softening point, so the wire the crucible was hung on would deform into a triangle instead of holding its original shape.

118 dog philosopher  Apr 4, 2014 6:49:41pm

re: #111 Political Atheist

hot-Graphite

great blues band

119 Bubblehead II  Apr 4, 2014 6:51:31pm

hey KT!

Response down stairs. Care to respond?

120 wheat-doggha -- oo bird outside my window  Apr 4, 2014 6:52:24pm

re: #105 thedopefishlives

Ya, sure, ya betcha.

My mom’s dad (from Ostergotland) hated Norwegians. He also wasn’t too keen about Baptists, apparently.

I never met him. He died before I was born. All I have is anecdotes from my mom and uncles.

121 Decatur Deb  Apr 4, 2014 6:56:58pm

re: #102 Skip Intro

Ah, I remember one. Leader of the Pack (I think).

I can’t say I ever heard of The Diamonds, though.

Little Darlin (intro by Dick Clark, 1959)

Youtube Video

122 Charles Johnson  Apr 4, 2014 6:57:31pm

Meteors, Meteoroids, and Meteorites

The period after the light phenomena cease is called dark flight.

123 Charles Johnson  Apr 4, 2014 6:58:27pm

Too many versions of LGF open at same time … must not … post in … wrong thread…

124 klys  Apr 4, 2014 7:00:05pm

/going though magazines to pull out recipes to try

Dude, they make condensed cheddar cheese soup??? How have I not heard of this before now?

125 freetoken  Apr 4, 2014 7:01:21pm

re: #122 Charles Johnson

The period after the light phenomena cease is called dark flight.

Also the period before 6018 years ago, the day before the Sun was created.

126 dog philosopher  Apr 4, 2014 7:02:20pm

re: #102 Skip Intro

Ah, I remember one. Leader of the Pack (I think).

I can’t say I ever heard of The Diamonds, though.

there was a parody on it called ‘the leader of the laundromat’

127 Political Atheist  Apr 4, 2014 7:07:06pm

re: #115 freetoken

Is silver added for the finish, or for workability?

Workability. That particular silver bearing brass is formulated to be mixed with gold at 14kt.

128 freetoken  Apr 4, 2014 7:07:13pm

re: #102 Skip Intro

Ah, I remember one. Leader of the Pack (I think).

I can’t say I ever heard of The Diamonds, though.

The Shangri-La’s were from the early ‘60’s. “The Leader of the Pack” was their biggest hit:

MP3 Audio

I don’t think that is what was originally requested, as in “Pack” the guy is the one who dies.

129 Ryan King  Apr 4, 2014 7:09:41pm

Way better on my Note 3

130 dog philosopher  Apr 4, 2014 7:12:55pm

re: #94 dog philosopher

no, actually i got it:

strange things happen in this world

Charted at #14 on Billboard Hot 100 in July 1965. This spooky song was written by a psychologist named Milton Addington. He based it on a story written by 15 year old Cathie Harmon which had been published the previous year in a Memphis newspaper. As thanks, he co-credited Cathie with writing the song and split song-writing royalties with her. An urban legend about Resurrection Mary told a similar story and had been around since the 1930’s. It’s possible that Cathie’s story had been based on this. In fact, an urban legend of this nature exists to this day, now called “The Vanishing Hitchhiker”. Besides this song, the main story theme and plot elements have been utilized in many TV shows and movies. B-side is “Party Doll”.

131 klys  Apr 4, 2014 7:13:30pm

re: #127 Political Atheist

Workability. That particular silver bearing brass is formulated to be mixed with gold at 14kt.

I really want to try my hand at jewelry making someday. Especially after having played with the glass stuff (which I should also do more of). If I hadn’t already had my engagement/wedding ring chosen, I would have seriously considered it.

132 RealityBasedSteve  Apr 4, 2014 7:14:20pm

re: #124 klys

/going though magazines to pull out recipes to try

Dude, they make condensed cheddar cheese soup??? How have I not heard of this before now?

What if I told you that with just 4 ingredients and 10 minutes you can make a cheese sauce that will put that canned salt laden chemical monstrosity to shame!!!!

3 TBS Butter
3 TBS Flour
1 Cup Milk
1 1/2 cups shredded cheese.

Melt butter over med-low and then whisk in flour, let cook for a minute or so.

Slowly whisk in milk, bring to gentle boil, whisk occasionally.

When it thickens slightly, add the cheese and let melt. Won’t be quite as thick as the condensed, if you want it thicker, cut the milk back to about 3/4 cup.

Adding just a tiny pinch of either Cayenne pepper or ground mustard will really punch up the flavor of the cheese.

RBS

133 Killgore Trout  Apr 4, 2014 7:14:21pm

re: #119 Bubblehead II

>hey KT!

Response down stairs. Care to respond?

This?

The point KT seems to be (willingly) missing is that if an employee, regardless of their ranking in the company makes a statement, politically (and that donation was a political statement) or other wise that negatively reflects on the company, said company can term their ass.

It’s one of the great joys of working in an employment at will/right to work State.

Chances are that there was a clause buried in his contract that covered a situation such as this.

It’s one of the reasons I don’t get too involved in many of the discussions here and in general keep a low profile on social networking sites.

He fucked up, made a political statement (donation) that embarrassed the company and then doubled down and got canned as a result. Tuff Shit, Next case.

The company seemed fine with his performance and qualifications. Left to their own devices they would have kept him as CEO. What I object to is the outside pressure to coerce the company. They never fired him, he stepped down on his own.
Let’s try a thought experiment: If he had kept his job and kept his politics in his private life as he’s done in the past. The company would continue to offer benefits to same sex employees and maintained an inclusive workplace. He was very good at what he does as CEO and makes the company an extra billion dollars a year. The company expands, hires more employees (many of them in same sex relationships) and offers more generous benefits. Employees pay for adoptions, have kids, send them to college. BUT he maintains his private views and donates $1,000 every decade to an anti-gay political cause?
Does he do greater good being the head of a successful inclusive business? Are those gay employees better off with him gone?
My conclusion is this has done nothing to change his mind or his heart. It creates an atmosphere of fear and justifies the paranoia of conservatives about what a progressive future will be like. Coercing people’s behavior through fear and intimidation doesn’t usually work out well historically.

134 klys  Apr 4, 2014 7:15:12pm

re: #132 RealityBasedSteve

What if I told you that with just 4 ingredients and 10 minutes you can make a cheese sauce that will put that canned salt laden chemical monstrosity to shame!!!!

3 TBS Butter
3 TBS Flour
1 Cup Milk
1 1/2 cups shredded cheese.

Melt butter over med-low and then whisk in flour, let cook for a minute or so.

Slowly whisk in milk, bring to gentle boil, whisk occasionally.

When it thickens slightly, add the cheese and let melt. Won’t be quite as thick as the condensed, if you want it thicker, cut the milk back to about 3/4 cup.

Adding just a tiny pinch of either Cayenne pepper or dried mustard will really punch up the flavor of the cheese.

RBS

Milk and boiling and I have a ….bad relationship. So I am really, really hesitant about rouxes, thus far.

135 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Apr 4, 2014 7:15:34pm

re: #133 Killgore Trout

This?

The company seemed fine with his performance and qualifications. Left to their own devices they would have kept his as CEO. What I object to is the outside pressure to coerce the company. They never fired him, he stepped down on his own.

Employees protested.

Barely-Following-the-Story-Killgore is one of my favorite!

136 klys  Apr 4, 2014 7:16:18pm

re: #133 Killgore Trout

This?

The company seemed fine with his performance and qualifications. Left to their own devices they would have kept his as CEO. What I object to is the outside pressure to coerce the company. They never fired him, he stepped down on his own.
Let’s try a thought experiment: If he had kept his job and kept his politics in his private life as he’s done in the past. The company would continue to offer benefits to same sex employees and maintained an inclusive workplace. He was very good at what he does as CEO and makes the company an extra billion dollars a year. The company expands, hires more employees (many of them in same sex relationships) and offers more generous benefits. Employees pay for adoptions, have kids, send them to college. >BUT he maintains his private views and donates $1,000 every decade to an anti-gay political cause?
Does he do greater good being the head of a successful inclusive business? Are those gay employees better off with him gone?
My conclusion is this has done nothing to change his mind or his heart. It creates an atmosphere of fear and justifies the paranoia of conservatives about what a progressive future will be like. Coercing people’s behavior through fear and intimidation doesn’t usually work out well historically.

How about answering the question GeneJockey posed for you here?

137 dog philosopher  Apr 4, 2014 7:16:41pm

re: #133 Killgore Trout

What I object to is the outside pressure to coerce the company

LEAVE BRITNEY ALOOOONE!!!!

138 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Apr 4, 2014 7:17:05pm

re: #136 klys

How about answering the question GeneJockey posed for you here?

Killgore’s solution to that is to make all political donations private, because the speech you buy deserves more protection than, y’know, actual speech.

139 freetoken  Apr 4, 2014 7:17:06pm

re: #133 Killgore Trout

Let’s try a thought experiment: If he had kept his job and kept his politics in his private life as he’s done in the past.

But he didn’t, did he?

I may be missing something here, but I thought the SHTF when whatever his beliefs stopped being private.

140 RealityBasedSteve  Apr 4, 2014 7:19:20pm

re: #134 klys

Milk and boiling and I have a ….bad relationship. So I am really, really hesitant about rouxes, thus far.

ROFL… Yea… it will foam up like a SOB if you give it half a chance. I learned Rouxes from my Cajun ex.

141 klys  Apr 4, 2014 7:19:56pm

re: #139 freetoken

But he didn’t, did he?

I may be missing something here, but I thought the SHTF when whatever his beliefs stopped being private.

Donating money to a political campaign in order to oppress others is apparently private speech. Or should be, to KT. Because he’s worried about the effect on a chilling environment for democracy.

Never mind that we had a discussion today about all the ways this already happens (and has happened) in favor of things like suppressing unions, etc. Now that it’s happened to a CEO, we are troutraged.

142 Decatur Deb  Apr 4, 2014 7:20:25pm

re: #134 klys

Milk and boiling and I have a ….bad relationship. So I am really, really hesitant about rouxes, thus far.

You have access to a furnace, don’t you?

143 klys  Apr 4, 2014 7:20:46pm

re: #142 Decatur Deb

You have access to a furnace, don’t you?

I defended and graduated.*

*Edited to add: THANK GOD.

144 Killgore Trout  Apr 4, 2014 7:21:09pm

re: #136 klys

How about answering the question GeneJockey posed for you here?

Already answered yesterday. The technique of repeatedly asking the same question and never accepting an answer is a popular technique among some folks.

145 Decatur Deb  Apr 4, 2014 7:21:41pm

re: #143 klys

I defended and graduated.

For what it cost, you should get emeritus rights.

146 Charles Johnson  Apr 4, 2014 7:21:50pm

Brendan Eich is going to be OK. Really. Don’t worry about him. He’ll be fine.

147 Killgore Trout  Apr 4, 2014 7:22:28pm

re: #139 freetoken

But he didn’t, did he?

I may be missing something here, but I thought the SHTF when whatever his beliefs stopped being private.

There’s no indication he brought his views into the workplace or used his position to force his views on others.

148 Killgore Trout  Apr 4, 2014 7:23:33pm

re: #146 Charles Johnson

Brendan Eich is going to be OK. Really. Don’t worry about him. He’ll be fine.

He’ll be fine but what about the next guy? and the guy after that? etc. Will you be fine when they get around to you?

149 klys  Apr 4, 2014 7:23:41pm

re: #144 Killgore Trout

Already answered yesterday. The technique of repeatedly asking the same question and never accepting an answer is a popular technique among some folks.

Funny, he seems to address both the question and the answer you previously provided. He asked for clarification on a few points, based on the answer you gave previously. It doesn’t seem to be the same question over again and has quite different specifics.

150 klys  Apr 4, 2014 7:24:02pm

re: #148 Killgore Trout

He’ll be fine but what about the next guy? and the guy after that? etc. Will you be fine when they get around to you?

I SAID NOTHING AND THEN THEY CAME FOR ME.

////

151 Targetpractice  Apr 4, 2014 7:25:04pm

re: #146 Charles Johnson

Brendan Eich is going to be OK. Really. Don’t worry about him. He’ll be fine.

Now Charles, obviously it’s not fine because people who support gay rights bullied the board into asking for his resignation. It’s chilling on free speech to make a bigot feel bad about his views or to take any steps against him that might in any way seem punitive. We simply must tolerate intolerance, for one day it might happen to us…oh wait, it already is…nevermind.

152 Mattand  Apr 4, 2014 7:25:26pm

re: #133 Killgore Trout

The fact that you’ve been twisting yourself into knots trying to pretend that a CEO of a major organization supporting an anti-gay initiative is just a simple difference of opinion is astounding.

153 RealityBasedSteve  Apr 4, 2014 7:26:28pm

re: #142 Decatur Deb

You have access to a furnace, don’t you?

humm, If I can roast a 4 pound chicken in 1 hour at 450*, how long would it take at 1900?

RBS

154 Stanley Sea  Apr 4, 2014 7:26:38pm

Hijacked.

155 klys  Apr 4, 2014 7:26:58pm

re: #153 RealityBasedSteve

humm, If I can roast a 4 pound chicken in 1 hour at 450*, how long would it take at 1900?

RBS

It would need to be a pretty small chicken.

Or else you have a lot of money.

156 Mattand  Apr 4, 2014 7:27:13pm

re: #150 klys

I SAID NOTHING AND THEN THEY CAME FOR ME.

////

LOL, I was about ready to quote that.

157 goddamnedfrank  Apr 4, 2014 7:27:30pm

re: #148 Killgore Trout

He’ll be fine but what about the next guy? and the guy after that? etc. Will you be fine when they get around to you?

The gaystapo took our jerbs!

158 Decatur Deb  Apr 4, 2014 7:27:40pm

re: #148 Killgore Trout

He’ll be fine but what about the next guy? and the guy after that? etc. Will you be fine when they get around to you?

Until they organize to protect themselves, all those guys are on their own in Libertarian Paradise.

159 RealityBasedSteve  Apr 4, 2014 7:27:47pm

re: #155 klys

It would need to be a pretty small chicken.

Or else you have a lot of money.

Ok, what about a Cornish Game Hen?

RBS
Cuz Money I don’t got.

160 Targetpractice  Apr 4, 2014 7:27:57pm

As noted downstairs, it really does seem like another round of OWS. “They’re wrong for speaking out! They’re wrong for taking action! They’re wrong for engaging in a boycott! Activism is bad because it makes the targets feel bad! They should simply sit on the couch and wait for change to come, because only then will we live in harmony. Kum-bay-ya, my Lord! Kum-bay-ya!”

161 Killgore Trout  Apr 4, 2014 7:28:03pm

re: #150 klys

I SAID NOTHING AND THEN THEY CAME FOR ME.

////

Yup. That’s why it’s important to learn from history. Do I really believe that only rich people and CEO’s are going to be targets? No. I also don’t believe it’s going to stop with right wing radio. Or TV. Or just a comic here and there. It’s a spooky mentality and the lack of restraint is going to cause problems.

162 freetoken  Apr 4, 2014 7:28:22pm

re: #147 Killgore Trout

There’s no indication he brought his views into the workplace or used his position to force his views on others.

Even if that is true, as CEO he is the #1 public face of the company.

You’ve been down this path before, about boycotting companies, etc.

In my opinion, corporations have to be sensitive to not only their customers and employees, but also the society in which they operate, the society which formed the laws that allows the corporation to exist.

It is quite proper for any one, any group, to publicly try to pressure a corporation. I will not always agree with the person/group trying to do the pressuring, but it is certainly proper for them to try and bring their issue with the corporation to the public view.

That he stepped down is an indication that he and the board understand that a CEO can’t contribute to political efforts that run counter to the image the corporation is trying to convey.

163 Lidane  Apr 4, 2014 7:28:31pm

re: #147 Killgore Trout

Except for the fact that HE’S THE PUBLIC FACE OF THE COMPANY. Everything he does is brought into the workplace because it’s a reflection of his values, which in turn affects the way employees see him.

What part of that is so fucking hard for you to understand?

164 klys  Apr 4, 2014 7:29:10pm

re: #159 RealityBasedSteve

Ok, what about a Cornish Game Hen?

RBS
Cuz Money I don’t got.

…we could talk about a drumstick.

165 Killgore Trout  Apr 4, 2014 7:29:29pm

re: #160 Targetpractice

As noted downstairs, it really does seem like another round of OWS. “They’re wrong for speaking out! They’re wrong for taking action! They’re wrong for engaging in a boycott! Activism is bad because it makes the targets feel bad! They should simply sit on the couch and wait for change to come, because only then will we live in harmony. Kum-bay-ya, my Lord! Kum-bay-ya!”

No, they were wrong for attacking police, trashing public parks, plotting to blow up that bridge and firebomb Obama’s campaign office in Chicago.

166 Targetpractice  Apr 4, 2014 7:29:35pm

re: #161 Killgore Trout

Yup. That’s why it’s important to learn from history. Do I really believe that only rich people and CEO’s are going to be targets? No. I also don’t believe it’s going to stop with right wing radio. Or TV. Or just a comic here and there. It’s a spooky mentality and the lack of restraint is going to cause problems.

Oh give me a fucking break. You bitched yesterday about being called a racist and a sexist, yet you’re making the exact same fucking arguments as have been used in the past by concern trolls over major social movement. Only talking point you haven’t hit yet is that we’re the real bigots for not being accepting of bigotry.

167 wheat-doggha -- oo bird outside my window  Apr 4, 2014 7:29:51pm

Here’s what my XiaoMi 1S displays. The first is the native browser and the second is Chrome Beta for Android. Chrome nails it.
Native XiaoMi browser

Chrome Beta Android screenshot

168 Ryan King  Apr 4, 2014 7:30:03pm

re: #153 RealityBasedSteve

humm, If I can roast a 4 pound chicken in 1 hour at 450*, how long would it take at 1900?

RBS

I’ve been obsessed with trying to sear ahi on lava but I see two potential problems- melted tongs and that heavy nuance of sulphur.

Other than that I think it’s brilliant.

169 RealityBasedSteve  Apr 4, 2014 7:30:04pm

re: #164 klys

…we could talk about a drumstick.

Maybe extra crispy wings, to order? Like a “wing toaster”?

RBS

170 Decatur Deb  Apr 4, 2014 7:30:05pm

re: #164 klys

…we could talk about a drumstick.

Chicken McCinders.

171 Targetpractice  Apr 4, 2014 7:31:07pm

re: #165 Killgore Trout

No, they were wrong for attacking police, trashing public parks, plotting to blow up that bridge and firebomb Obama’s campaign office in Chicago.

And so you smeared the entire fucking movement for the actions by outliers. No wonder you don’t like activism, you paint everybody by the same fucking broadbrush. They’re all just troublemakers, aren’t they? None of them have a pure motive, none are out there for anything more than to blow shit up and hurt people, right?

172 klys  Apr 4, 2014 7:31:32pm

re: #166 Targetpractice

Oh give me a fucking break. You bitched yesterday about being called a racist and a sexist, yet you’re making the exact same fucking arguments as have been used in the past by concern trolls over major social movement. Only talking point you haven’t hit yet is that we’re the real bigots for not being accepting of bigotry.

But we have talked about re-education camps.

Meant sarcastically, of course.

173 Charles Johnson  Apr 4, 2014 7:31:52pm

re: #167 wheat-doggha — oo bird outside my window

Looks like the default font is bigger, so the word “password” gets pushed to the next line.

174 calochortus  Apr 4, 2014 7:32:04pm

re: #69 thedopefishlives

My dad was. My wife’s dad was born in 1940.

A bit late to the game, but can I play too?
My father was born in 1904. (He married a bit late in life. His father was born in 1868. We’re a bit slow getting around to the reproduction thing.)

175 RealityBasedSteve  Apr 4, 2014 7:32:20pm

re: #168 Ryan King

I’ve been obsessed with trying to sear ahi on lava but I see two potential problems- melted tongs and that heavy nuance of sulphur.

Other than that I think it’s brilliant.

I saw a great way to do that on Good Eats. Alton used one of those charcoal lighter chimneys, got it going (and they get really hot once that air starts getting drawn through), put a small grill on top, and seared the tuna on that.

RBS

176 Killgore Trout  Apr 4, 2014 7:32:46pm

re: #172 klys

But we have talked about re-education camps.

Meant sarcastically, of course.

Relaxation Centers, get it right. Just a modest proposal.

177 klys  Apr 4, 2014 7:32:51pm

re: #174 calochortus

A bit late to the game, but can I play too?
My father was born in 1904. (He married a bit late in life. His father was born in 1868. We’re a bit slow getting around to the reproduction thing.)

I think my husband’s grandfather was born somewhere in the 1800s. (Obviously not 1800 itself, but somewhere in that century.)

178 Lidane  Apr 4, 2014 7:33:52pm

re: #161 Killgore Trout

The fact that you’re even making this argument is ridiculous and offensive.

A CEO isn’t going to be hauled off in a cattle car and sent to the camps. Get a fucking grip.

179 klys  Apr 4, 2014 7:33:59pm

re: #176 Killgore Trout

Relaxation Centers, get it right. Just a modest proposal.

It’s kind of funny that you think this makes your point, while continually lecturing us via essays for not agreeing with you.

180 William Barnett-Lewis  Apr 4, 2014 7:34:03pm

re: #152 Mattand

The fact that you’ve been twisting yourself into knots trying to pretend that a CEO of a major organization supporting an anti-gay initiate is just a simple difference of opinion is astounding.

Something real close to home has been hit? Almost to OWS freakout level tonight.

181 wheat-doggha -- oo bird outside my window  Apr 4, 2014 7:34:38pm

re: #173 Charles Johnson

Looks like the default font is bigger, so the word “password” gets pushed to the next line.

Yeah. The functionality is fine. Just the appearance is a little off. Either way, it’s neat. I appreciate your hard work dealing with CSS to make it possible.

182 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Apr 4, 2014 7:34:52pm

re: #161 Killgore Trout

Yup. That’s why it’s important to learn from history. Do I really believe that only rich people and CEO’s are going to be targets? No. .

Why not? You realize ‘slippery slope’ is usually used to describe a fallacy, right?

What would make it not a fallacy would be if you could demonstrate how the next steps down the slope go. If the person was the head of HR, could they be asked to resign over this? Yes, because there’d be reason to doubt they could be equitable to gay people. Are there other corporate positions where having donated money to discriminate against some of you cause problems for you doing your job? Yes.

Are those positions quantitatively different from other jobs at the corporation? Yes.

Could an ordinary worker get away with winding up on one of those ‘Johns” billboards? Probably. Some companies might fire them for that, in the states without worker protections—most states. Most companies wouldn’t fire them for that. But would a CEO get fired? Absolutely and definitely.

This is because CEO is actually a qualitatively different position.

Now, if you want to drop the classical liberal thing (that you never really understood) and now come out strongly in favor of protection for workers, so that you could only be fired for cause on the job and not for anything outside, that, I’ll be happy to join you in that. However, I think you’d still find that a board would be able to convince a labor board that a CEO’s job is actually inhibited by them being known to support discrimination.

183 goddamnedfrank  Apr 4, 2014 7:35:26pm

I imagine a dystopian hellscape where the rights of bigots to lead Fortune 500 companies isn’t held sacrosanct.

*shudders*

Mark my words, in a fortnight Brendan Eich will be tilling the earth with a human femur while his walled compound is besieged by roving gangs of queer, cannibal programmers telling him to “just walk away.” His only company, a feral child.

184 calochortus  Apr 4, 2014 7:35:42pm

re: #177 klys

I think my husband’s grandfather was born somewhere in the 1800s. (Obviously not 1800 itself, but somewhere in that century.)

All of my grandparents were born in the 1800s but, I’m 60.

185 klys  Apr 4, 2014 7:36:02pm

re: #183 goddamnedfrank

I imagine a dystopian hellscape where the rights of bigots to lead Fortune 500 companies isn’t held sacrosanct.

*shudders*

Mark my words, in a fortnight Brendan Eich will be tilling the earth with a human femur while his walled compound is besieged by roving gangs of queer, cannibal programmers telling him to “just walk away.” His only company, a feral child.

This is about as likely as the vacation centers. 10/10, great comment, would read again.

186 Stanley Sea  Apr 4, 2014 7:36:24pm

re: #162 freetoken

Even if that is true, as CEO he is the #1 public face of the company.

You’ve been down this path before, about boycotting companies, etc.

In my opinion, corporations have to be sensitive to not only their customers and employees, but also the society in which they operate, the society which formed the laws that allows the corporation to exist.

It is quite proper for any one, any group, to publicly try to pressure a corporation. I will not always agree with the person/group trying to do the pressuring, but it is certainly proper for them to try and bring their issue with the corporation to the public view.

That he stepped down is an indication that he and the board understand that a CEO can’t contribute to political efforts that run counter to the image the corporation is trying to convey.

Wonderful comment. Troll doesn’t acknowledge. Troll on KT.

187 dog philosopher  Apr 4, 2014 7:36:48pm

when they come for you

when they come for me, they’ll find that i donate to things like the children’s fund and st jude’s hospitals, NOT POLITICAL INITIATIVES AIMED AT RESTRICTING CIVIL RIGHTS

188 klys  Apr 4, 2014 7:37:29pm

re: #187 dog philosopher

when they come for you

when they come for me, they’ll find that i donate to things like the children’s fund and st jude’s hospitals, NOT POLITICAL INITIATIVES AIMED AT RESTRICTING CIVIL RIGHTS

BURN HIM AT THE STAKE. (Or steak, if you’d like.)

189 Stanley Sea  Apr 4, 2014 7:37:32pm

re: #165 Killgore Trout

No, they were wrong for attacking police, trashing public parks, plotting to blow up that bridge and firebomb Obama’s campaign office in Chicago.

RWNJ speak.

190 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Apr 4, 2014 7:38:08pm

re: #165 Killgore Trout

No, they were wrong for attacking police, trashing public parks, plotting to blow up that bridge and firebomb Obama’s campaign office in Chicago.

Pretending OWS a whole did any of those things is stupid group-blame.

This is very similar to your line of logic that two women who were peacefully protesting deserved to get assaulted—an assault that you enjoyed watching, and enjoyed watching in slow-motion—because there were other people scuffling with the police somewhere else in the protest.

It makes no sense, and makes you seem super-creepy.

191 klys  Apr 4, 2014 7:38:24pm

Mind you, now, we are all horrible people for piling on KT and refusing to debate this here.

192 Decatur Deb  Apr 4, 2014 7:40:08pm

re: #161 Killgore Trout

Yup. That’s why it’s important to learn from history. Do I really believe that only rich people and CEO’s are going to be targets? No. I also don’t believe it’s going to stop with right wing radio. Or TV. Or just a comic here and there. It’s a spooky mentality and the lack of restraint is going to cause problems.

The funny bit is that he was busted for giving away his money. If he had detonated the entire company he would have floated gently down on a golden parachute.

(And don’t imagine there has ever been restraint (except inept government) on the actions of bosses in non-unionized workplaces.

193 Mattand  Apr 4, 2014 7:40:52pm

re: #180 William Barnett-Lewis

Something real close to home has been hit? Almost to OWS freakout level tonight.

The cognitive dissonance of “I support gay marriage” and “Only the true bigots criticize a powerful person’s homophobia” baffles me to no end.

194 wheat-doggha -- oo bird outside my window  Apr 4, 2014 7:42:10pm

re: #174 calochortus

A bit late to the game, but can I play too?
My father was born in 1904. (He married a bit late in life. His father was born in 1868. We’re a bit slow getting around to the reproduction thing.)

I was born in 1956, my dad in 1914, and his dad in 1857. My dad’s mom was his father’s second wife, and nearly 30 years younger than he when they married in ‘07.

My dad had an older brother, who died as a young man, and a half-brother whom he met once or twice in the 1930s. I have failed so far in my attempts to track down where this half-bro went. He did get married, but there’s no record of his having kids. Found him in the 1920 and 1930 census, but not in the 1940 census as yet.

195 Amory Blaine  Apr 4, 2014 7:42:20pm

Me like rocks good.

196 Targetpractice  Apr 4, 2014 7:42:23pm

I keep wondering just how the LGBT crowd was supposed to react to Eich’s promotion to CEO. What response would have been acceptable, would have pleased the concern trolls that the movement was remaining vigilant without going “too far”?

197 wheat-doggha -- oo bird outside my window  Apr 4, 2014 7:44:35pm

re: #196 Targetpractice

I keep wondering just how the LGBT crowd was supposed to react to Eich’s promotion to CEO. What response would have been acceptable, would have pleased the concern trolls that the movement was remaining vigilant without going “too far”?

CEOs serve at the will of the board of directors. For all we know, the board may have had other issues with Eich unrelated to his Prop 8 activities.

198 Targetpractice  Apr 4, 2014 7:45:32pm

re: #197 wheat-doggha — oo bird outside my window

CEOs serve at the will of the board of directors. For all we know, the board may have had other issues with Eich unrelated to his Prop 8 activities.

Now obviously that can’t be true, because according to Killgore the board was happy with his experience and performance.

199 klys  Apr 4, 2014 7:45:35pm

re: #192 Decatur Deb

The funny bit is that he was busted for giving away his money. If he had detonated the entire company he would have floated gently down on a golden parachute.

(And don’t imagine there has ever been restraint (except inept government) on the actions of bosses in non-unionized workplaces.

Pfft, you know money is speech. That’s why this whole thing should have been protected by the First Amendment, right?

200 RealityBasedSteve  Apr 4, 2014 7:46:18pm

I used to have a collection of Geodes, and where I grew up in Upstate NY we used to collect “Herkimer Diamonds”

Herkimer Diamond

At one time I wanted to be a paleontologist.

RBS

201 jaunte  Apr 4, 2014 7:46:49pm
“…it’s important to remember that Mozilla is different. At Mozilla, the leadership’s main job isn’t to set a strategy that makes the firm a lot of money. The chief executive’s primary purpose is to hold a community together, and then to motivate it to do great things in the absence of a lot of money — all while competing for talent with firms like Apple, Google, and Microsoft, which shower workers with dollars and perks.”
bits.blogs.nytimes.com

“In his first test as C.E.O. of Mozilla, he failed to execute.”
words.tofumatt.com

202 The Ghost of a Flea  Apr 4, 2014 7:46:51pm

FYI, I’ve got a 5-acre yard that would be perfect for a homofascist re-education camp.

Just got to get some Kickstarter funding for barbed wire and Hugo Boss uniforms….

203 wheat-doggha -- oo bird outside my window  Apr 4, 2014 7:47:25pm

re: #200 RealityBasedSteve

I used to have a collection of Geodes, and where I grew up in Upstate NY we used to collect “Herkimer Diamonds”

Herkimer Diamond

At one time I wanted to be a paleontologist.

RBS

Those things are big in the woo-woo crystal energy community.

204 calochortus  Apr 4, 2014 7:47:33pm

re: #194 wheat-doggha — oo bird outside my window

I was born in 1956, my dad in 1914, and his dad in 1857. My dad’s mom was his father’s second wife, and nearly 30 years younger than he when they married in ‘07.

My dad had an older brother, who died as a young man, and a half-brother whom he met once or twice in the 1930s. I have failed so far in my attempts to track down where this half-bro went. He did get married, but there’s no record of his having kids. Found him in the 1920 and 1930 census, but not in the 1940 census as yet.

There’s a remarkable amount of information out there, although if someone has a common name or lived in a rural area it can be harder to track them. There are draft records and street directories and the like available. Some free, some not. Good luck with the search. My genealogical research is highly sporadic, but I’ve found out a lot over the last few years.

205 Killgore Trout  Apr 4, 2014 7:47:44pm

re: #193 Mattand

The cognitive dissonance of “I support gay marriage” and “Only the true bigots criticize a powerful person’s homophobia” baffles me to no end.

It shouldn’t. You would no doubt be surprised how few people actually support political litmus tests for being a CEO, running a business or just having a job. It’s a few zealots and noisy activists wielding as much power as they can. The more this technique gets pushed, the less people are going to like it.

206 Lidane  Apr 4, 2014 7:48:02pm

re: #190 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

Pretending OWS a whole did any of those things is stupid group-blame.

This is very similar to your line of logic that two women who were peacefully protesting deserved to get assaulted—an assault that you enjoyed watching, and enjoyed watching in slow-motion—because there were other people scuffling with the police somewhere else in the protest.

It makes no sense, and makes you seem super-creepy.

It also falls in line with KT’s cheering for those college students protesting peacefully at UC Davis getting assaulted and pepper sprayed by cops. Some random guy at an OWS rally does something stupid, so of course everyone who protests must be attacked and suppressed.

Ironic for someone who is now complaining about a CEO being attacked and suppressed.

207 Stanley Sea  Apr 4, 2014 7:48:03pm

Enough. 4 days of troll hijacking good thread. Have a great night.

Go Gators!

208 RealityBasedSteve  Apr 4, 2014 7:48:16pm

re: #202 The Ghost of a Flea

FYI, I’ve got a 5-acre yard that would be perfect for a homofascist re-education camp.

Just got to get some Kickstarter funding for barbed wire and Hugo Boss uniforms….

Don’t forget the vision obscuring helmets for the guards.

RBS

209 Targetpractice  Apr 4, 2014 7:49:04pm

A boycott? No, the company suffering financially would have been a violation of his free-speech.

A protest? No, they’d just get violent and damage property.

Ad campaign? No, that would also hurt the company financially.

I know, a strongly worded letter making it clear that no matter how much LGBT groups may dislike his promotion, no matter how cross they might be with Mozilla, they will take no action because that would be “too far.”

210 Decatur Deb  Apr 4, 2014 7:49:14pm

re: #197 wheat-doggha — oo bird outside my window

CEOs serve at the will of the board of directors. For all we know, the board may have had other issues with Eich unrelated to his Prop 8 activities.

Per on-line reading, half the board resigned when he was moved up.

211 Targetpractice  Apr 4, 2014 7:49:53pm

re: #210 Decatur Deb

Per on-line reading, half the board resigned when he was moved up.

Well, obviously it had to be for some other reason than his being a bigot. Perhaps they didn’t like his haircut.

212 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Apr 4, 2014 7:50:38pm

re: #205 Killgore Trout

It shouldn’t. You would no doubt be surprised how few people actually support political litmus tests for being a CEO, running a business or just having a job.

One of these things is not like the other.

I love how you just blew by the fact Mozilla employees objected to his hiring as though it didn’t matter.

213 Lidane  Apr 4, 2014 7:51:46pm

re: #209 Targetpractice

A boycott? No, the company suffering financially would have been a violation of his free-speech.

A protest? No, they’d just get violent and damage property.

Ad campaign? No, that would also hurt the company financially.

I know, a strongly worded letter making it clear that no matter how much LGBT groups may dislike his promotion, no matter how cross they might be with Mozilla, they will take no action because that would be “too far.”

Advocacy for a sternly worded letter coming from the same concern troll who thinks that Obama should carpet bomb Crimea and Russia because a sternly worded letter isn’t enough.

Irony abounds.

214 klys  Apr 4, 2014 7:51:59pm

re: #212 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

One of these things is not like the other.

I love how you just blew by the fact Mozilla employees objected to his hiring as though it didn’t matter.

Also, supporting civil rights for everyone really shouldn’t be considered a ‘political litmus test’ and it’s a sad commentary on our society that it can be.

215 Killgore Trout  Apr 4, 2014 7:52:24pm

re: #196 Targetpractice

I keep wondering just how the LGBT crowd was supposed to react to Eich’s promotion to CEO. What response would have been acceptable, would have pleased the concern trolls that the movement was remaining vigilant without going “too far”?

I think getting him fired was the worst possible response. It would have been much better to reach out to him and get assurances he wasn’t going to use his position to change the tolerant attitudes in the workplace. Then just let him live his life, maybe invite him to dinner or a gay wedding. Treat him with tolerance and respect. It’s not really that unthinkable.

216 wheat-doggha -- oo bird outside my window  Apr 4, 2014 7:52:47pm

re: #204 calochortus

There’s a remarkable amount of information out there, although if someone has a common name or lived in a rural area it can be harder to track them. There are draft records and street directories and the like available. Some free, some not. Good luck with the search. My genealogical research is highly sporadic, but I’ve found out a lot over the last few years.

He was an advertising copywriter, and moved around a lot: Chicago, Omaha, San Francisco, Philly — all between 1900 and 1930. His last address was in Camden, NJ, with his mother. I have his old business card with a Philly address, which I assume is from that time period. My family name is not especially common, but he had an annoying habit of changing his given names around (first name + initial, first initial + middle name, two initials, etc.) and sometimes using Jr., and sometimes not. Also, I am not sure if ancestry.com has fully indexed the 1940 census. Big urban areas take a while to index.

217 wheat-doggha -- oo bird outside my window  Apr 4, 2014 7:54:21pm

re: #215 Killgore Trout

I think getting him fired was the worst possible response. It would have been much better to reach out to him and get assurances he wasn’t going to use his position to change the tolerant attitudes in the workplace. Then just let him live his life, maybe invite him to dinner or a gay wedding. Treat him with tolerance and respect. It’s not really that unthinkable.

It’s just business, Mr Eich. Nothing personal.

218 RealityBasedSteve  Apr 4, 2014 7:54:45pm

re: #203 wheat-doggha — oo bird outside my window

Those things are big in the woo-woo crystal energy community.

I bet if I combined them with Hematite I’d be able to make a fortune. Combine the natural energizing of the double terminated quartz crystal with its well published natural vibratory energy with the cool and grounding of natural hematite. The same elemental iron as is found in blood can contribute to a feeling of calmness and general grounding, while the natural resonance of the quartz can amplify your general positive energies. (hummm….. and what is my level of integrity?)

RBS

RBS

219 calochortus  Apr 4, 2014 7:56:15pm

re: #215 Killgore Trout

I think getting him fired was the worst possible response. It would have been much better to reach out to him and get assurances he wasn’t going to use his position to change the tolerant attitudes in the workplace. Then just let him live his life, maybe invite him to dinner or a gay wedding. Treat him with tolerance and respect. It’s not really that unthinkable.

IIRC he refused to comment further and assure people that he wouldn’t discriminate at Mozilla.

220 klys  Apr 4, 2014 7:56:52pm

re: #215 Killgore Trout

I think getting him fired was the worst possible response. It would have been much better to reach out to him and get assurances he wasn’t going to use his position to change the tolerant attitudes in the workplace. Then just let him live his life, maybe invite him to dinner or a gay wedding. Treat him with tolerance and respect. It’s not really that unthinkable.

Like the tolerance and respect he advocated for when he made a monetary donation aiming to restrict the civil rights of gay people? Man, I can totally see how the gay employees of Mozilla who live in CA would be all over that approach.

It’s really fucking easy for you to say “turn the other cheek” because it’s not your civil rights being directly affected. Meanwhile, people actually in the industry have expressed that this would have made it more difficult for them to consider working for Mozilla, for example - in one of the counter essays to the essay you linked this morning. But you don’t seem to care about their opinion.

221 Targetpractice  Apr 4, 2014 7:57:17pm

re: #215 Killgore Trout

I think getting him fired was the worst possible response. It would have been much better to reach out to him and get assurances he wasn’t going to use his position to change the tolerant attitudes in the workplace. Then just let him live his life, maybe invite him to dinner or a gay wedding. Treat him with tolerance and respect. It’s not really that unthinkable.

So half the board resigned, the other half was getting complaints and angry letters from employees in the company, and all it would have taken to defuse the entire situation would be to go to him and ask “Will you assure us you’ll keep your bigotry to yourself?”

222 goddamnedfrank  Apr 4, 2014 7:58:23pm

re: #205 Killgore Trout

It shouldn’t. You would no doubt be surprised how few people actually support political litmus tests for being a CEO, running a business or just having a job. It’s a few zealots and noisy activists wielding as much power as they can. The more this technique gets pushed, the less people are going to like it.

If you openly supported a Klan sponsored initiative to repeal civil rights legislation to blacks, implement anti-miscegenation laws or to expel all Jews from your State, you’d expect pushback. I’m not sure why you think Prop. 8 was fundamentally any different except that your conflationary mindset demands it.

223 Killgore Trout  Apr 4, 2014 7:58:52pm

re: #219 calochortus

IIRC he refused to comment further and assure people that he wouldn’t discriminate at Mozilla.

No, he just refused to recant his views and apologize for the donation.

224 Targetpractice  Apr 4, 2014 8:00:03pm

re: #223 Killgore Trout

No, he just refused to recant his views and apologize for the donation.

So why would you trust an assurance from him that he would not allow his views to change how the company operated or did business?

225 calochortus  Apr 4, 2014 8:00:36pm

re: #216 wheat-doggha — oo bird outside my window

Yeah, some people are difficult. I’ve given up on “Walter Smith” (my great-great grandfather.) Supposedly emigrated from somewhere in England. Not exactly definitive.

226 klys  Apr 4, 2014 8:00:56pm

re: #222 goddamnedfrank

If you openly supported a Klan sponsored initiative to repeal civil rights legislation to blacks, implement anti-miscegenation laws or to expel all Jews from your State, you’d expect pushback. I’m not sure why you think Prop. 8 was fundamentally any different except that your conflationary mindset demands it.

KT hasn’t actually said he would support a call for a CEO to resign in that position.

It’s the typical getting him to answer clear questions is like pulling teeth bit.

Except I’m pretty sure having my wisdom teeth pulled was easier and less painful. Over faster too. We’ve spent a fucking four days on this issue already, and I think most of us are ready to let it drop if links to essays that agree with KT didn’t have a nasty habit of showing up in most threads.

227 Belafon  Apr 4, 2014 8:01:21pm

KT, it’s the “keeping silent” and ignoring it that is the problem. You may have read it, but I like this editorial from a former marine about no longer keeping silent.

228 freetoken  Apr 4, 2014 8:03:15pm

re: #215 Killgore Trout

HOW MOZILLA LOST ITS C.E.O.

When Brendan Eich stepped down as the C.E.O. of Mozilla, on Thursday, after a mere two weeks on the job, it was perhaps the least surprising C.E.O. departure ever. Eich was one of the co-founders of Mozilla—which makes open-source software, including the Firefox browser—and is a brilliant software engineer who had been the company’s chief technology officer. But Eich was also well known for his opposition to gay marriage: in 2008, he donated a thousand dollars to support Proposition 8, the California ballot measure that sought to ban same-sex marriage. The initial revelation of that donation, back in 2012, led to a welter of criticism that eventually died down. But, by elevating Eich to C.E.O., the Mozilla board brought his past to the forefront once again. While Eich attempted to defuse the problem with conciliatory blog posts and interviews about diversity and inclusiveness, he didn’t actually say that his views on gay marriage had changed. That, inevitably, provoked a uprising within the Mozilla community: a public petition was circulated demanding that he step down, the dating site OkCupid recommended that its customers stop using Firefox, and some Mozilla employees (though far from all of them) called for his resignation.

[…]

The real mystery here, then, is not why Eich stepped down but why he ever got hired in the first place. His unquestioned technical ability notwithstanding, this was a candidate who divided the board, who had already been controversial, and whose promotion was guaranteed to generate reams of bad publicity. In that VentureBeat interview, Eich said of the C.E.O. job, “I was asked to put my hat in, and at first I didn’t want to.” Everyone involved would have been better off if he’d just listened to that impulse.

229 Lidane  Apr 4, 2014 8:03:19pm

re: #215 Killgore Trout

You keep glossing over the fact that HE WAS THE PUBLIC FACE OF THE COMPANY. It’s not as simple as just inviting him to a gay wedding for fuck’s sake. Mozilla prides itself on being a global, open source non-profit that’s available to everyone. What part of the CEO donating to anti-gay causes reflects that, or allows the company to effectively recruit talent?

His actions and his donations affect the company culture and their ability to recruit and retain talent, and their ability to raise money. Mozilla NEEDS a CEO that reflects the culture of the company because compared to the big Silicon Valley juggernauts like Google and Apple, they don’t have all the fancy perks. They’re a non-profit. An openly bigoted CEO kinda gets in the way of that.

230 Killgore Trout  Apr 4, 2014 8:04:11pm

re: #227 Belafon

If you’re reading this and you go to church every Sunday but you know that discrimination is wrong, or you’re serving overseas and worried that you or others in your squadron can’t be themselves, there is something you can do. Write. Speak out. Find the Andys and Sgt. Santiagos in your life and make amends. There is still time to be on the right side of history.

Kudos. Good for him.

231 calochortus  Apr 4, 2014 8:06:41pm

re: #223 Killgore Trout

No, he just refused to recant his views and apologize for the donation.

From the San Jose Mercury News

And in not explaining why he made a $1,000 donation to support Proposition 8, the anti-gay marriage ballot initiative, or clarifying his views now, he let the bubbling controversy over his stance fester and reach a point in which his only option was to step down…That approach was wrong. And, Thursday, he resigned as chief executive and left the company that he had helped found.

To me that says he wasn’t willing to explain himself at all. I would be far more troubled about his departure if he had (briefly) explained his personal views and had assured everyone involved that it would not affect the way he did things at Mozilla. He was utterly tone-deaf and that did not bode well for his ability to be a good CEO.

232 wheat-doggha -- oo bird outside my window  Apr 4, 2014 8:06:49pm

re: #217 wheat-doggha — oo bird outside my window

I feel compelled to follow up on my snark.

Though non-profit, Mozilla is a business. It disseminates a product used widely around the world. The CEO is the public face of that company, and by extension its products. Further, the CEO serves at the whim of the board of the directors. He or she may be highly paid, but is still an “at-will” employee in a sense. If a majority of the board feels a CEO is bad for business or the brand, the board lets him/her go. They don’t worry about hurting the now ex-CEO’s fee-fees, or trying to rehabilitate him or her. They worry about the brand, and in business, time is money.

So, too bad so sad for Mr Eich. I see absolutely no reason why anyone should worry about his tender ego or the appropriateness of firing him.
It’s just business.

233 Decatur Deb  Apr 4, 2014 8:07:23pm

re: #228 freetoken

HOW MOZILLA LOST ITS C.E.O.

“if you want to know what’s going on in this agency, stop reading that Harvard Business School crap and read Richard III”.
30 Something

234 The Ghost of a Flea  Apr 4, 2014 8:08:18pm

re: #226 klys

Is discussion worth it?

Once the specter of tolerance re-education camps is earnestly introduced, I figure it’s time to drink more gin.

235 Belafon  Apr 4, 2014 8:09:25pm

re: #234 The Ghost of a Flea

Give me an example.

236 Targetpractice  Apr 4, 2014 8:11:09pm

re: #228 freetoken

HOW MOZILLA LOST ITS C.E.O.

So this has been knowledge for 2 years, but he wasn’t fired? He wasn’t fired the first time it became public knowledge, despite all the outrage? How can that be, when even the janitor has to worry that outrage over his views could lead to losing his job?

237 The Awkward Guy  Apr 4, 2014 8:12:14pm

It’s almost as if KT’s full of shit. Again.

238 The Ghost of a Flea  Apr 4, 2014 8:12:15pm

re: #235 Belafon

Give me an example?

of gin?

; )

Sorry I deleted the second sentence because I wasn’t sure whether I was phrasing it right. Sort of “movements to expand civil rights generally don’t end in concentration camps.”

239 Killgore Trout  Apr 4, 2014 8:13:21pm

re: #231 calochortus

From the San Jose Mercury News

To me that says he wasn’t willing to explain himself at all. I would be far more troubled about his departure if he had (briefly) explained his personal views and had assured everyone involved that it would not affect the way he did things at Mozilla. He was utterly tone-deaf and that did not bode well for his ability to be a good CEO.

Maybe but I don’t fault him for not being forced to recant his views. He may have correctly guessed that it wouldn’t stop the mob anyways.

240 Belafon  Apr 4, 2014 8:13:58pm

re: #238 The Ghost of a Flea

OK. It was that last sentence that was confusing to me. I read it as exactly the opposite of what you just described it to mean.

241 The Ghost of a Flea  Apr 4, 2014 8:14:19pm

re: #239 Killgore Trout

Maybe but I don’t fault him for not being forced to recant his views. He may have correctly guessed that it wouldn’t stop the mob anyways.

The board of directors is a mob?

242 freetoken  Apr 4, 2014 8:14:36pm

On top of all this brouhaha, Mozilla is one of those companies whose time may be past, anyway.

I use Chrome. Between Microsoft and Google, the world of internet browsing will be controlled for the foreseeable future.

243 Lidane  Apr 4, 2014 8:14:47pm

re: #239 Killgore Trout

You don’t fault him for anything, even being a bigot.

You’ve made it abundantly clear that you think he shouldn’t have faced any outcry or consequence for being a bigot. You’re okay with it, in fact.

244 Belafon  Apr 4, 2014 8:15:57pm

re: #239 Killgore Trout

And that’s bs if he were sincere, if he’d actually recanted and not did the “I’m sorry you were offended” apology.

245 Targetpractice  Apr 4, 2014 8:16:44pm

re: #239 Killgore Trout

Maybe but I don’t fault him for not being forced to recant his views. He may have correctly guessed that it wouldn’t stop the mob anyways.

Again, you don’t have a problem with his refusal to recant or apologize, but you feel he could have been trusted if he assured employees and consumers that he wouldn’t allow his views to affect the company?

246 calochortus  Apr 4, 2014 8:16:45pm

re: #239 Killgore Trout

Maybe but I don’t fault him for not being forced to recant his views. He may have correctly guessed that it wouldn’t stop the mob anyways.

And he may have been incorrect, or not thought about it at all. So, yeah, I fault him for that.

247 Killgore Trout  Apr 4, 2014 8:17:21pm

re: #241 The Ghost of a Flea

The board of directors is a mob?

The article says….

by elevating Eich to C.E.O., the Mozilla board brought his past to the forefront once again

The board gave him the CEO position which drew the attention of activists trying to get him fired.

248 Killgore Trout  Apr 4, 2014 8:18:27pm

re: #244 Belafon

And that’s bs if he were sincere, if he’d actually recanted and not did the “I’m sorry you were offended” apology.

Yeah, these forced apologies are always fake anyways but people seem to like them and it pacifies the activists.

249 Targetpractice  Apr 4, 2014 8:19:00pm

re: #247 Killgore Trout

The article says….

The board gave him the CEO position which drew the attention of activists trying to get him fired.

So why wasn’t he fired when it became public knowledge 2 years prior?

250 The Ghost of a Flea  Apr 4, 2014 8:19:15pm

re: #243 Lidane

You don’t fault him for anything, even being a bigot.

You’ve made it abundantly clear that you think he shouldn’t have faced any outcry or consequence for being a bigot. You’re okay with it, in fact.

Real freedom is the freedom to give money to a movement that deprives other of liberties while running a company that prides itself on inclusiveness where the board of directors has already complained about how your politics affects your job as public face of a company that prides itself on inclusiveness.

It’s the freest, freedomy freedom of all freedoms in freedomdom.

Also, something, something evil gay tolerance mobs with FABULOUS concentration camps.

251 jaunte  Apr 4, 2014 8:19:28pm

re: #248 Killgore Trout

If he can’t fake an apology he couldn’t be a very good CEO.

252 Killgore Trout  Apr 4, 2014 8:20:01pm

re: #249 Targetpractice

So why wasn’t he fired when it became public knowledge 2 years prior?

Probably because the activists calling for him to be fired got distracted by a bird or something.

253 Targetpractice  Apr 4, 2014 8:21:17pm

re: #252 Killgore Trout

Probably because the activists calling for him to be fired got distracted by a bird or something.

Nice flippant response. Now, would you like to try a serious one?

254 calochortus  Apr 4, 2014 8:22:11pm

Once upon a time, I spent precisely no time thinking about same sex marriage. Then civil unions came on the scene and I figured that would be fine if they were in fact the same as a civil marriage (I’m not religious and have no opinion on what should constitute marriage as a sacrament.) But of course they weren’t.
When the first (pre-legal) same sex marriages were held in San Francisco they were naturally featured on TV, and seeing the way those people looked at each other, I realized how much marriage mattered to them.

I realized it would have mattered to me if I had been told I couldn’t marry my husband, although in some ways the fact that I could marry him made is less important (does that make sense?)

I am now very committed to marriage equality, and I suspect I am not alone. Being perceived as being against same sex marriage is a losing proposition for a business.

255 Decatur Deb  Apr 4, 2014 8:23:25pm

re: #247 Killgore Trout

The article says….

The board gave him the CEO position which drew the attention of activists trying to get him fired.

Raising the possibility that this all about boardroom politics and has nothing to do with Prop 8 at all.

256 Lidane  Apr 4, 2014 8:23:31pm

re: #247 Killgore Trout

The board gave him the CEO position which drew the attention of activists trying to get him fired.

So by your idiot logic, the board of directors set him up to be fired?

I’ll give you credit. It’s not every day I see someone eviscerate themselves on both ends of Occam’s Razor. Well done.

257 Killgore Trout  Apr 4, 2014 8:26:47pm

re: #253 Targetpractice

Nice flippant response. Now, would you like to try a serious one?

It seems the activist pressure eased for whatever reason. Maybe birds, maybe not. But they moved on. The company itself seemed confident enough in his abilities to give him the CEO position and that’s when OK Cupid got involved.

258 Decatur Deb  Apr 4, 2014 8:29:02pm

re: #254 calochortus

Once upon a time, I spent precisely no time thinking about same sex marriage. Then civil unions came on the scene and I figured that would be fine if they were in fact the same as a civil marriage (I’m not religious and have no opinion on what should constitute marriage as a sacrament.) But of course they weren’t.
When the first (pre-legal) same sex marriages were held in San Francisco they were naturally featured on TV, and seeing the way those people looked at each other, I realized how much marriage mattered to them.

I realized it would have mattered to me if I had been told I couldn’t marry my husband, although in some ways the fact that I could marry him made is less important (does that make sense?)

I am now very committed to marriage equality, and I suspect I am not alone. Being perceived as being against same sex marriage is a losing proposition for a business.

One of our lizards has posted summaries of how deeply marriage, not civil union, is woven into US/State law. She listed a hundred or two instances. Fact is, simple economic justice cannot be served by the compromise term.

259 Lidane  Apr 4, 2014 8:29:09pm

re: #257 Killgore Trout

Except for the fact that half the Board of Directors immediately resigned when he got hired as CEO.

You know, because that’s what confidence in your CEO does.

260 Targetpractice  Apr 4, 2014 8:30:06pm

re: #257 Killgore Trout

It seems the activist pressure eased for whatever reason. Maybe birds, maybe not. But they moved on. The company itself seemed confident enough in his abilities to give him the CEO position and that’s when OK Cupid got involved.

So the company had already seen the man’s views draw outrage towards the company but went ahead with making him CEO anyway, ensuring that the outrage would return and likely increase due to the increased power afforded by the position?

261 Killgore Trout  Apr 4, 2014 8:32:38pm

re: #255 Decatur Deb

Raising the possibility that this all about boardroom politics and has nothing to do with Prop 8 at all.

Maybe but I doubt the board could have predicted the level of outrage. Even the OK Cupid guy didn’t really expect him to lose his job over this.

262 calochortus  Apr 4, 2014 8:34:54pm

re: #258 Decatur Deb

One of our lizards has posted summaries of how deeply marriage, not civil union, is woven into US/State law. She listed a hundred or two instances. Fact is, simple economic justice cannot be served by the compromise term.

If civil unions were essentially civil marriages, it would work, but as I said, they aren’t. As an atheist the religious aspects of marriage aren’t relevant to me, but I hadn’t given a lot of thought to the semantics of it all. I think the bottom line is that there isn’t any point in making up new terms-if you care, just draw a line between a civil marriage and a religious one. It shouldn’t matter to anyone but the couple involved which kind they select.

263 Killgore Trout  Apr 4, 2014 8:35:16pm

re: #259 Lidane

Except for the fact that half the Board of Directors immediately resigned when he got hired as CEO.

You know, because that’s what confidence in your CEO does.

arstechnica.com

Update: On Saturday, a Mozilla spokesperson forwarded a statement to Ars: “The three board members ended their terms last week for a variety of reasons. Two had been planning to leave for some time, one since January and one explicitly at the end of the CEO search, regardless of the person selected.” The representative offered no further clarification.

264 Lidane  Apr 4, 2014 8:35:17pm

re: #260 Targetpractice

So the company had already seen the man’s views draw outrage towards the company but went ahead with making him CEO anyway, ensuring that the outrage would return and likely increase due to the increased power afforded by the position?

But somehow it’s OK Cupid’s fault that he got fired. Or something,

265 Targetpractice  Apr 4, 2014 8:44:57pm

So the board knew the man’s views were controversial and had drawn outrage when they became public knowledge two years prior. And when pressed on the matter, he refused to explain, retract, or apologize for his views but instead tried a social media blitz to convince people he could be trusted not to allow his views to affect the company’s work environment or how it did business. But when the outrage did come, the board was bullied into calling for his resignation instead of sticking by the man whose experience and performance they felt so good that it was enough to overcome any concerns about the past outrage.

Why exactly would anybody look on that set of events and not draw the conclusion that Mozilla was okay with Eich being a bigot?

266 Decatur Deb  Apr 4, 2014 8:45:42pm

re: #262 calochortus

If civil unions were essentially civil marriages, it would work, but as I said, they aren’t. As an atheist the religious aspects of marriage aren’t relevant to me, but I hadn’t given a lot of thought to the semantics of it all. I think the bottom line is that there isn’t any point in making up new terms-if you care, just draw a line between a civil marriage and a religious one. It shouldn’t matter to anyone but the couple involved which kind they select.

That was my thinking before the legal entanglement was pointed out. That could work in theory, but can’t reasonably be implemented. (Think of 50+ states, many wildly hostile to gay anything.)

Can’t go into details, but a situation working as an ACA navigator made my straight goy self a yenta to an Alabama gay couple. Was working way outside my training, there.

267 calochortus  Apr 4, 2014 8:48:34pm

re: #266 Decatur Deb

Can’t go into details, but a situation working as an ACA navigator made my straight goy self a yenta to an Alabama gay couple. Was working way outside my training, there.

Awwwww, how sweet. :)

268 GeneJockey  Apr 4, 2014 9:05:43pm

re: #237 The Awkward Guy

It’s almost as if KT’s full of shit. Again.

Hoocoodanode?

269 Mich-again  Apr 4, 2014 10:58:40pm

It wasn’t a meteorite, it was a Boeing bomb.

270 Mich-again  Apr 4, 2014 11:05:58pm

re: #262 calochortus

just draw a line between a civil marriage and a religious one. It shouldn’t matter to anyone but the couple involved which kind they select.

Matrimony is a sacrament and the State has no involvement. Marriage is a Civil Union and the Church has no involvement.

271 Ryan King  Apr 5, 2014 6:42:29am

re: #252 Killgore Trout

Probably because the activists calling for him to be fired got distracted by a bird or something.

Actually it’s the ‘Next They’ll Come For Us’ mob with their unique brand of Suey Parkian pretzel, no, fettucine logic in Libertarian Disconnect Cream Sauce.

272 Randall Gross  Apr 5, 2014 10:03:00am

Phil Plait’s take is : might be real
slate.com


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