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284 comments
1 freetoken  Apr 26, 2014 5:13:32pm

黑 

Groovy

2 Charles Johnson  Apr 26, 2014 5:16:18pm

A really nice free font:

fontfabric.com

3 freetoken  Apr 26, 2014 5:16:32pm

ʎʌooɹƃ

4 Gus  Apr 26, 2014 5:17:18pm

MACANUDO

5 RealityBasedSteve  Apr 26, 2014 5:19:46pm

Through the magic of the internets, there are pizza coming right to my door. Hurry Pizza Driver, Hurry!

UPDATE: The Pizza Person Provided the Provisions.
RBS

6 freetoken  Apr 26, 2014 5:27:19pm

Filthy lucre:

Dollar bills carry over 3,000 bacteria

By swabbing dollar bills circulating in New York City, scientists have found more than 3,000 different types of bacteria on the currency.

For the study, the research team from New York University analysed the genetic material on 80 $1 bills sampled from a Manhattan bank. The analysis showed that the notes carried a diverse array of microbes.

Whilst most of the microorganisms were relatively harmless to humans, a few were pathogenic. It total, the microbiologists found more than 3,000 bacterial types, including some drug-resistant species. Another point of interest was that only around twenty percent of the bacteria detected were known, with the remainder belonging to yet to be identified species.

[…]

7 Romantic Heretic  Apr 26, 2014 5:27:59pm

What did you just see? I’m thinking someone dropped a tab of acid and then started playing Spore.

8 Charles Johnson  Apr 26, 2014 5:28:40pm

By the way, if you recall that weirdo Islamophobic “charles_simmonds” guy, he has now tried to re-register at least 10 times.

9 Romantic Heretic  Apr 26, 2014 5:31:28pm

re: #6 freetoken

Filthy lucre:

Dollar bills carry over 3,000 bacteria

Not surprising they couldn’t identify most of them. I remember reading that in studies of soil bacteria it’s not uncommon to find completely different ecosystems of bacteria only a kilometre apart from each other.

Which makes sense. From a bacteria’s point of view a kilometre is the equivalent of several parsec to us. At the speeds each is capable of travelling what sets out will be completely different from what arrives.

10 Gus  Apr 26, 2014 5:35:18pm
11 Charles Johnson  Apr 26, 2014 5:36:12pm
12 Charles Johnson  Apr 26, 2014 5:36:33pm

re: #10 Gus

Hah!

13 Killgore Trout  Apr 26, 2014 5:36:37pm

Guide to school Islamisation, by ‘ringleader’ of Trojan Horse plot

School governor who is alleged ringleader of the Trojan Horse plot in Birmingham wrote 72-page document on manipulating teachers and curriculum

The alleged ringleader of the Trojan Horse plot wrote a detailed blueprint for the radical “Islamisation” of secular state schools which closely resembles what appears to be happening in Birmingham.

Tahir Alam, chairman of governors at Park View school in the city, called for “girls [to] be covered except for their hands and faces”, advocated gender segregation in some school activities, and attacked a “multicultural approach” to collective worship.

He described how state schools must be changed to “take account of Muslim sensitivities and sensibilities with respect to sexual morality” with “girlfriend/boyfriend as well as homosexual relationships” treated as “not acceptable practices according to Islamic teachings”.

14 Gus  Apr 26, 2014 5:38:09pm

re: #12 Charles Johnson

Hah!

Aroldis Chapman

As of May 2013, he holds the record for the fastest recorded pitch speed in MLB history,[2] after throwing a 105.1 mph (169.1 km/h) fastball in 2010. He was also clocked by one radar gun at 106 mph (173.3 km/h) in a later game, although this speed is disputed.[3]

15 jaunte  Apr 26, 2014 5:41:41pm

re: #10 Gus

Kim Jong Un played pitcher, batter and outfield.

16 TedStriker  Apr 26, 2014 5:41:58pm

re: #10 Gus

A 119-120 mph fastball? Yeah, I’ll buy that for a dollar…

///

17 TedStriker  Apr 26, 2014 5:42:17pm

re: #15 jaunte

Kim Jong Un played pitcher, batter and outfield.

At the same time.

18 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce  Apr 26, 2014 5:42:22pm

The people who are most capable of designing a nice monospace font are the people least likely to understand why anyone would ever want a monospace font.

The people who most desperately yearn for a nice monospace font are the people least equipped to design one.

I think it’s obvious that this, more than climate change, poverty, overpopulation, famine, drought, crime, official corruption, and the heartbreak of psoriasis, is the single most important problem of our time.

19 Charles Johnson  Apr 26, 2014 5:42:51pm
20 Charles Johnson  Apr 26, 2014 5:43:50pm

re: #18 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce

The people who are most capable of designing a nice monospace font are the people least likely to understand why anyone would ever want a monospace font.

The people who most desperately yearn for a nice monospace font are the people least equipped to design one.

I think it’s obvious that this, more than climate change, poverty, overpopulation, famine, drought, crime, official corruption, and the heartbreak of psoriasis, is the single most important problem of our time.

I’ve tried a lot of monospaced fonts, but I always come back to Andale Mono. To me, it’s the most readable for programming, at any size.

21 Gus  Apr 26, 2014 5:44:42pm

CODE 1234567890

22 freetoken  Apr 26, 2014 5:45:11pm

re: #13 Killgore Trout

Guide to school Islamisation, by ‘ringleader’ of Trojan Horse plot

They described how Muslim governors could be activated to press the “views and aspirations of Muslim parents and the local community” on reluctant schools.

Sounds pretty sinister.

But… once again it seems like your author, Andrew Gilligan, doesn’t actually give us the material he claims. Where is this 72 page document?

23 sattv4u2  Apr 26, 2014 5:45:12pm

re: #10 Gus

[Embedded content]

Athletic prowess runs in the family

But in the 1990s - another moment in time when an event in North Korea varies (some say it happened in 1991 and others in 1994), the late dictator, then 50 (or 53) years old, set a golfing standard that will assuredly never be surpassed. It occurred at the grand opening of the Pyongyang Golf Complex, which contains North Korea’s only 18-hole golf course.

After picking up a golf club that day for the very first time in his life, the Dear Leader of the Democratic People’s Republic of North Korea fired a 38-under-par round of 34 at Pyongyang. According to the 17 security guards who observed the performance, the score included an amazing 11 aces. Naturally, the event was dutifully reported to the North Korean masses by the state news agency.

24 Gus  Apr 26, 2014 5:47:58pm
25 TedStriker  Apr 26, 2014 5:48:21pm

re: #23 sattv4u2

Athletic prowess runs in the family

But in the 1990s - another moment in time when an event in North Korea varies (some say it happened in 1991 and others in 1994), the late dictator, then 50 (or 53) years old, set a golfing standard that will assuredly never be surpassed. It occurred at the grand opening of the Pyongyang Golf Complex, which contains North Korea’s only 18-hole golf course.

After picking up a golf club that day for the very first time in his life, the Dear Leader of the Democratic People’s Republic of North Korea fired a 38-under-par round of 34 at Pyongyang. According to the 17 security guards who observed the performance, the score included an amazing 11 aces. Naturally, the event was dutifully reported to the North Korean masses by the state news agency.

As well as bullshittery.

26 Gus  Apr 26, 2014 5:49:22pm

DONALD STERLING IS TEH DEMOCRAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

27 sattv4u2  Apr 26, 2014 5:50:40pm

re: #26 Gus

DONALD STERLING IS TEH DEMOCRAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I got ya beat!!

Kim Jong il ,,,, the Dear Leader of the Democratic People’s Republic of North Korea

so,, FEH !!!!
/

28 Ming  Apr 26, 2014 5:50:52pm

re: #13 Killgore Trout

Guide to school Islamisation, by ‘ringleader’ of Trojan Horse plot

I really like the book “The God Delusion” by Richard Dawkins. In it, Dawkins makes a passionate plea for organized religion to leave children alone. Of course, the four religions that I have some knowledge of, Scientology Judaism Christianity and Islam, aren’t the least bit shy to involve children young and early. Obviously, members of these religions would be appalled at Dawkins’ pleas to leave the kids alone.

I’m responding to your comment in this way because from my point of view, I don’t think any one of these religions is more “sinister” than any other, in terms of what they do to kids. Some religions do this more artfully than others. But it seems to me that the GOAL is precisely the same.

(Since I’ve left so many recent extreme atheist comments here, let me say that some of the people I care most about are religious, and also that Richard Dawkins is my favorite of the “new atheists”; he somehow manages to be incredibly courteous to other points of view, even when taking admittedly “non-mainstream” positions such as mine above. I may have missed something, but I’m not aware of any nasty sound-bites he’s made.)

29 bratwurst  Apr 26, 2014 5:51:15pm

What is it about LGF that attracts Canadian right wingers? Here is the latest particularly nitwitted example.

30 Decatur Deb  Apr 26, 2014 5:51:49pm

re: #6 freetoken

Filthy lucre:

Dollar bills carry over 3,000 bacteria

Hundreds carry fewer, but better, bacteria.

31 Charles Johnson  Apr 26, 2014 5:52:07pm

re: #26 Gus

DONALD STERLING IS TEH DEMOCRAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

32 Gus  Apr 26, 2014 5:53:24pm

re: #31 Charles Johnson

[Embedded image]

Sterling’s a classic Beverly Hills-Hollywood schmoozer and left-wing philanthropist big shot, and the occasional leftist tight wad, heh.

Again, this is just one more case of leftist racism and bigotry, unfortunately too splashy of a celebrity story for the hopelessly biased leftist press to tamp down.

So, enjoy watching the sick racist Democrats squirm under the news of Sterlings racism. That is, until the next distraction squirrel! runs our from the bushes, lol.

33 Decatur Deb  Apr 26, 2014 5:53:53pm

re: #23 sattv4u2

Athletic prowess runs in the family

But in the 1990s - another moment in time when an event in North Korea varies (some say it happened in 1991 and others in 1994), …snip

Nail down that date. Precision and accuracy are critical to DRPK news.

34 sattv4u2  Apr 26, 2014 5:55:28pm

re: #33 Decatur Deb

Nail down that date. Precision and accuracy are critical to DRPK news.

Calendars aren’t plentiful in the Great Democratic People’s Republic of North Korea

(neither is food,, heat,, clothing ,,,, )

35 Gus  Apr 26, 2014 5:56:52pm

Donald Duck
Donald Sterling
Donald Trump
Donald Douglas

Coincidence?

36 RealityBasedSteve  Apr 26, 2014 5:57:01pm

re: #23 sattv4u2

Athletic prowess runs in the family

But in the 1990s - another moment in time when an event in North Korea varies (some say it happened in 1991 and others in 1994), the late dictator, then 50 (or 53) years old, set a golfing standard that will assuredly never be surpassed. It occurred at the grand opening of the Pyongyang Golf Complex, which contains North Korea’s only 18-hole golf course.

After picking up a golf club that day for the very first time in his life, the Dear Leader of the Democratic People’s Republic of North Korea fired a 38-under-par round of 34 at Pyongyang. According to the 17 security guards who observed the performance, the score included an amazing 11 aces. Naturally, the event was dutifully reported to the North Korean masses by the state news agency.

First rule of golf. If you’re going to stretch the truth, or use some creative accounting on your scorecard, at least keep it within the bounds of reason.

RBS

37 Amory Blaine  Apr 26, 2014 5:57:22pm

Check out this cool lizard toy.

Youtube Video

38 Decatur Deb  Apr 26, 2014 5:58:31pm

re: #34 sattv4u2

Calendars aren’t plentiful in the Great Democratic People’s Republic of North Korea

(neither is food,, heat,, clothing ,,,, )

They got parades. Manic, epic, cosmic parades:

Image: 1995+Pyongyang+aper%25C3%25A7u+g%25C3%25A9n%25C3%25A9ral+0001-045.jpg

39 freetoken  Apr 26, 2014 6:00:14pm

Letters to the Editor - classic American pastime:

Letter: Full tithing is God’s law

[…]

To those in the LDS Church: Was tithing not commanded by God to every single person? Indeed it was. It cannot be denied or ignored. Women are not and will never be an exception to God’s law. The idea that ‘women should pay less tithing since they have less authority’ is absolutely and completely absurd. Merely because women don’t hold the priesthood, which they weren’t created to hold, but share with their husband, doesn’t mean that tithing should be a smaller amount than men. If this occurred, they would break a law they claim to believe.

[…] Granted, we all have our own wants and needs, but I refuse to tell my Father in Heaven that I want to pay less tithing and willingly break a law He commanded me to do. I myself am a woman, but I hold a different role in life and will not compare myself to a man. Thank God for tithing and the chance to show Him at least 10 percent of my love, gratitude, and obedience.

ShaLae Marie Jenson

Eagle Mountain

Which got this reply:

Letter: God, obedience and cash

ShaLae Marie Jenson’s letter (“Full Tithing is God’s Law,” April 19) claims that paying the church is “a way to thank God and show Him at least 10 percent of my love, gratitude, and obedience.” What has always baffled me is why the creator of the universe, all physical matter, space and time, the architect of quantum mechanics, gravity, black holes, galaxies, stars and the earth itself, the author of life and maker of eternal souls, is somehow always a little short on cash. Seems strange … […]

Ken McCabe

I always wondered about that too. If God made more than 1090 atoms, instantaneously, out of nothing, what gives with the begging for a few bacteria-laden dollars?

40 wrenchwench  Apr 26, 2014 6:01:46pm

re: #28 Ming

(Since I’ve left so many recent extreme atheist comments here, let me say that some of the people I care most about are religious, and also that Richard Dawkins is my favorite of the “new atheists”; he somehow manages to be incredibly courteous to other points of view, even when taking admittedly “non-mainstream” positions such as mine above. I may have missed something, but I’m not aware of any nasty sound-bites he’s made.)

I find Dawkins disrespectful of religious people. I’m on the look out for atheists who aren’t. I followed Hemant Mehta (‘the friendly atheist’) for quite a while, but recently dumped him when he said something mean about Muslims (I don’t remember what it was).

I’ll keep looking.

41 freetoken  Apr 26, 2014 6:01:55pm

re: #35 Gus

Donald Duck
Donald Sterling
Donald Trump
Donald Douglas

Coincidence?

You left off…

Ronald McDonald

42 Decatur Deb  Apr 26, 2014 6:02:42pm

re: #37 Amory Blaine

Check out this cool lizard toy.

[Embedded content]

Larger

Really wanted to see that guy with Band-Aids on his fingers.

43 wrenchwench  Apr 26, 2014 6:07:07pm

Later, lizards.

44 sattv4u2  Apr 26, 2014 6:07:11pm

re: #36 RealityBasedSteve

First rule of golf. If you’re going to stretch the truth, or use some creative accounting on your scorecard, at least keep it within the bounds of reason.

RBS

Well,,,, 11 holes in one on an 18 hole course,,
Start and end with one
Have one on every other hole in between those

Wha,,,, ?!??! It can happen!!!!!

45 Killgore Trout  Apr 26, 2014 6:08:14pm

re: #22 freetoken

Sounds pretty sinister.

But… once again it seems like your author, Andrew Gilligan, doesn’t actually give us the material he claims. Where is this 72 page document?

I don’t know, I looked around and it’s not being reported elsewhere and he doesn’t say where he got it from. It might be in the leaked government report. But it is starting to look like the plot is a real possibility…
Khalid Mahmood, Labour MP for Birmingham Perry Barr, alleges ‘Trojan Horse’ plan to import hardline views into schools

Khalid Mahmood, Labour MP for Birmingham Perry Barr, accused Birmingham city council of being “complicit” in the alleged plot and attacked the purported ringleader, Tahir Alam, saying: “It is very appropriately named Trojan Horse - that’s exactly what he has been doing.”

46 RealityBasedSteve  Apr 26, 2014 6:09:24pm

re: #44 sattv4u2

Well,,,, 11 holes in one on an 18 hole course,,
Start and end with one
Have one on every other hole in between those

Wha,,,, ?!??! It can happen!!!!!

nope… nobody can time the windmill vanes the first time. //// FORE

RBS

47 sattv4u2  Apr 26, 2014 6:10:29pm

BAD NEWS
I just busted my reading glasses
GOOD NEWS
I have less than an hour to go here at work
GOOD NEWS
I have an old extra pair in my locker
BAD NEWS
They’re so old, they aren’t nearly strong enough for me to read anything less than this 25” monitor!!!!

48 sattv4u2  Apr 26, 2014 6:11:05pm

re: #46 RealityBasedSteve

nope… nobody can time the windmill vanes the first time. //// FORE

RBS

It’s the clowns mouth with that giant tooth blocking the fairway that always gets me!

49 Belafon  Apr 26, 2014 6:11:10pm

re: #35 Gus

My dad’s name is Donald, though he’s not exactly famous.

50 Gus  Apr 26, 2014 6:11:15pm

re: #47 sattv4u2

BAD NEWS
I just busted my reading glasses
GOOD NEWS
I have less than an hour to go here at work
GOOD NEWS
I have an old extra pair in my locker
BAD NEWS
They’re so old, they aren’t nearly strong enough for me to read anything less than this 25” monitor!!!!

THIS HELP?

51 sattv4u2  Apr 26, 2014 6:12:54pm

re: #50 Gus

THIS HELP?

Yes

(except for it being useless!!!)
/

52 Killgore Trout  Apr 26, 2014 6:13:17pm

re: #28 Ming

I really like the book “The God Delusion” by Richard Dawkins. In it, Dawkins makes a passionate plea for organized religion to leave children alone. Of course, the four religions that I have some knowledge of, Scientology Judaism Christianity and Islam, aren’t the least bit shy to involve children young and early. Obviously, members of these religions would be appalled at Dawkins’ pleas to leave the kids alone.

I’m responding to your comment in this way because from my point of view, I don’t think any one of these religions is more “sinister” than any other, in terms of what they do to kids. Some religions do this more artfully than others. But it seems to me that the GOAL is precisely the same.

(Since I’ve left so many recent extreme atheist comments here, let me say that some of the people I care most about are religious, and also that Richard Dawkins is my favorite of the “new atheists”; he somehow manages to be incredibly courteous to other points of view, even when taking admittedly “non-mainstream” positions such as mine above. I may have missed something, but I’m not aware of any nasty sound-bites he’s made.)

I’m not so much of a Dawkins fan. I liked Hitchens but he was often a douche when the topic of religion came up. I’m an atheist but I like religion. There are all sorts of people who believe all sorts of nutty stuff, sometimes it’s extreme and dangerous but I think religion is a source of beauty, music, art and culture. A world without religion would be duller.

53 SteveMcGazi  Apr 26, 2014 6:13:47pm

re: #47 sattv4u2

I keep my most recent old pair of glasses in my car, because my car is usually not too far from me. If I’m home, so is the car. If I’m at work , so is the car, and so on.

54 Gus  Apr 26, 2014 6:13:51pm
55 sattv4u2  Apr 26, 2014 6:15:38pm

re: #53 SteveMcGazi

I keep my most recent old pair of glasses in my car, because my car is usually not too far from me. If I’m home, so is the car. If I’m at work , so is the car, and so on.

yeah ,, me too,,, cept I took the OTHER car to work today. Son came home from college very very late last night and blocked “my” car in the driveway. The other car was in the clear

56 aagcobb  Apr 26, 2014 6:15:48pm

re: #52 Killgore Trout

I’m not so much of a Dawkins fan. I liked Hitchens but he was often a douche when the topic of religion came up. I’m an atheist but I like religion. There are all sorts of people who believe all sorts of nutty stuff, sometimes it’s extreme and dangerous but I think religion is a source of beauty, music, art and culture. A world without religion would be duller.

Eh, we would still have all the music art and culture.

57 SteveMcGazi  Apr 26, 2014 6:16:03pm

re: #55 sattv4u2

Figures

58 Killgore Trout  Apr 26, 2014 6:17:25pm

re: #40 wrenchwench

I find Dawkins disrespectful of religious people. I’m on the look out for atheists who aren’t. I followed Hemant Mehta (‘the friendly atheist’) for quite a while, but recently dumped him when he said something mean about Muslims (I don’t remember what it was).

I’ll keep looking.

I kind of like Sam Harris but maybe that’s because he’s a fellow atheist meditator
samharris.org

59 Killgore Trout  Apr 26, 2014 6:18:09pm

re: #50 Gus

THIS HELP?

Don’t shout, he’s blind not deaf

60 sattv4u2  Apr 26, 2014 6:19:26pm

re: #59 Killgore Trout

Don’t shout, he’s blind not deaf

huh???

61 freetoken  Apr 26, 2014 6:21:04pm

Just a swinging

62 Killgore Trout  Apr 26, 2014 6:21:16pm

re: #56 aagcobb

Eh, we would still have all the music art and culture.

Sure we would still have art and culture. We could debate alternative histories but I still like a world with religious people in it. I have no desire to convert them to be like me.

63 Gus  Apr 26, 2014 6:21:54pm
64 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Apr 26, 2014 6:22:14pm

re: #22 freetoken

Sounds pretty sinister.

But… once again it seems like your author, Andrew Gilligan, doesn’t actually give us the material he claims. Where is this 72 page document?

One thing that’s buried in the article and will probably not be visible to the US audience is that this is a ‘faith’ school. It’s a school that’s public-supported but allowed to have religious overtones; the CoE have a lot of them in the UK, the Catholics have some, and I guess Muslims do now too. They have lower separation of Church and State because they have an actual state church, and state-support other churches as well.

Faith-based schools, here or there, are a bad idea, I think. However, by keeping them sponsored by the state, the state gets to actually inspect them and, when they’re getting fundie, crack down on them. That may be what’s happening here.

Meanwhile, here in the US we have a ton of public schools actively teaching creationism, and we seem a bit of a loss as what to do about it. Officially, we have separation of church and state, but the reality is that in many communities Christian supremacism is the norm, and students are taught the religious view of all kinds of stuff. It’s a major problem. It’s getting worse, with all the voucher bullshit the GOP has put through, there’s tons of openly insanely Christian state-funded schools here in the US.

65 TedStriker  Apr 26, 2014 6:23:09pm

re: #62 Killgore Trout

Sure we would still have art and culture. We could debate alternative histories but I still like a world with religious people in it. I have no desire to convert them to be like me.

Comes down to free will, whether to adhere to a religion or not, free of overt outside interference.

As it should be.

66 aagcobb  Apr 26, 2014 6:25:17pm

re: #62 Killgore Trout

Sure we would still have art and culture. We could debate alternative histories but I still like a world with religious people in it. I have no desire to convert them to be like me.

I could do without religious fundamentalism, which produces a lot of the conflict in the world. And as long as people accept the premise of an invisible sky daddy we have to please they are easy prey for religious demagogues.

67 freetoken  Apr 26, 2014 6:25:32pm

re: #64 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

The aforementioned Dawkins has been highly critical of these faith schools.

I find it sad that there are Americans who want to make secular public schools more religious. There is a white-washing of the past, with all its sectarian strife. Sectarian schools are no good, I propose.

68 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Apr 26, 2014 6:26:53pm

re: #65 TedStriker

Comes down to free will, whether to adhere to a religion or not, free of overt outside interference.

As it should be.

Free will doesn’t have a ton to do with it; you generally just wind up being the religion your parents are. Religion has—heh—evolved to be convincing, and to acquire adherents. It’s like any other cultural thingamadoodle, it takes part in its own perpetuation.

But the root of it, I think, is the same pattern-matching ability that gives us creative thought at all, so we’ll never get rid of religion. Instead, religion should be confined to the metaphysical, where it belongs, and leave real-world stuff like science and ethics to the secular world.

69 Skip Intro  Apr 26, 2014 6:27:29pm

re: #10 Gus

[Embedded content]

He did that right after bowling 10 consecutive 300 games and and scoring a course record 54 strokes under par at N. Korea’s championship par 72 golf course.

70 sattv4u2  Apr 26, 2014 6:28:46pm

re: #69 Skip Intro

He did that right after bowling 10 consecutive 300 games and and scoring a course record 54 strokes under par at N. Korea’s championship par 72 golf course.

SEE #23

71 Killgore Trout  Apr 26, 2014 6:30:19pm

for the comprehension impaired…

The alleged ringleader of the Trojan Horse plot wrote a detailed blueprint for the radical “Islamisation” of secular state schools which closely resembles what appears to be happening in Birmingham.

The so-called Trojan Horse plot involves the alleged takeover of secular state schools and the removal of secular head teachers in Birmingham by radical Muslim staff and governors.

Oldknow is another school expected to be rated “inadequate” by Ofsted after the successful secular head teacher, Bhupinder Kondal, was driven out and hardline teachers recruited.

72 aagcobb  Apr 26, 2014 6:30:28pm

re: #68 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

Free will doesn’t have a ton to do with it; you generally just wind up being the religion your parents are. Religion has—heh—evolved to be convincing, and to acquire adherents. It’s like any other cultural thingamadoodle, it takes part in its own perpetuation.

But the root of it, I think, is the same pattern-matching ability that gives us creative thought at all, so we’ll never get rid of religion. Instead, religion should be confined to the metaphysical, where it belongs, and leave real-world stuff like science and ethics to the secular world.

That is easy for us to say. But if you believe in an omnipotent, omniscient sky daddy, why would you think his existence would be irrelevant to “real world stuff”?

73 Skip Intro  Apr 26, 2014 6:30:35pm

re: #70 sattv4u2

SEE #23

I just did.

Dammit! Nice job sattv4u2.

74 Gus  Apr 26, 2014 6:30:39pm
75 SteveMcGazi  Apr 26, 2014 6:32:01pm

re: #74 Gus

Wow, that must have been some good shit

76 Killgore Trout  Apr 26, 2014 6:34:47pm

re: #66 aagcobb

I could do without religious fundamentalism, which produces a lot of the conflict in the world. And as long as people accept the premise of an invisible sky daddy we have to please they are easy prey for religious demagogues.

Agreed. There are a lot of religious practices that I don’t care for but as long as religious practice doesn’t lead to violence, terrorism, mass oppression then I’m willing to debate things like women’s rights, gay rights etc. I might not agree with all religious practices but that’s life. There’d be plenty of violence and oppression without religion anyways

77 freetoken  Apr 26, 2014 6:38:19pm

re: #71 Killgore Trout

I’m aware of the accusations. I’m just asking for proof.

78 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Apr 26, 2014 6:38:50pm

re: #71 Killgore Trout

for the comprehension impaired…

For the barely-following-the-conversation Killgore, some of the schools Park View Educational trust administers are openly ‘faith schools’, some of them are not. This is why I made the analogy to the US, where we have, in some cases, public money going to faith schools, and other times schools teaching Christian supremacy even at state schools. In the UK, they openly allow things like the call to prayer even at ‘secular’ schools with enough Muslims at it, and allow Christian prayer, too.

Does this help you understand at all, do you want to engage the effort to push a few neurons near enough to each other to actually engage, or are you going to remain at your normal CNN level of engagement?

79 Gus  Apr 26, 2014 6:38:57pm

re: #75 SteveMcGazi

Wow, that must have been some good shit

80 GeneJockey  Apr 26, 2014 6:39:25pm

re: #75 SteveMcGazi

Wow, that must have been some good shit

I’m just trying to figure out what it all IS, let alone what it all MEANS. There appears to be one guy with a flute up his ass, and another crapping coins, while a bird-headed blue frog eats one guy and seems to be laying an egg from which another guy is dripping. I think I’d find my dealer and beat the ever loving shit out of him for giving me such bad dope!

81 Killgore Trout  Apr 26, 2014 6:39:32pm

…and in the case of the “Trojan horse” investigation. This is not about respecting religious views. If true, it was a plan to defraud the government and British society to force some pretty archaic religious views on children. Not cool.

82 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Apr 26, 2014 6:39:35pm

re: #76 Killgore Trout

Agreed. There are a lot of religious practices that I don’t care for but as long as religious practice doesn’t lead to violence, terrorism, mass oppression then I’m willing to debate things like women’s rights, gay rights etc.

Debating those is rather academic, since they shouldn’t ever be put to a vote.

83 freetoken  Apr 26, 2014 6:40:07pm

He may be young, but he’s smart enough to not sure about this whole “pet” thing:

Image: fennec-fox-1.jpg

84 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Apr 26, 2014 6:41:07pm

re: #81 Killgore Trout

…and in the case of the “Trojan horse” investigation. This is not about respecting religious views. If true, it was a plan to defraud the government and British society to force some pretty archaic religious views on children. Not cool.

Which is why I compared it to the similar efforts—successful efforts—here in the US to teach radical Christian shit like denial of evolution in the classroom.

As soon as the discussion gains any complexity you just cannot fucking deal. Go back to saying ‘outrage!’ at everything.

85 Ming  Apr 26, 2014 6:43:19pm

re: #40 wrenchwench

I find Dawkins disrespectful of religious people…

I’ll be on the lookout for that, the next time I read him. I wouldn’t be shocked; frankly, my impression is that Dawkins manages to be respectful, but often dances very close to the line.

Now that I think about it (and it would be interesting to know what others here at LGF think) I guess the “friendliest” atheist I can think of is Carl Sagan.

86 SteveMcGazi  Apr 26, 2014 6:45:14pm

re: #85 Ming

Isaac Asimov was pretty religion friendly, he even wrote a book about the Bible.

87 Killgore Trout  Apr 26, 2014 6:45:37pm

re: #85 Ming

I’ll be on the lookout for that, the next time I read him.

Now that I think about it (and it would be interesting to know what others here at LGF think) I guess the “friendliest” atheist I can think of is Carl Sagan.

Neil Degasse Tyson does a great job with too.

88 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Apr 26, 2014 6:45:48pm

Faith-based schools and teaching is very, very bad, and very, very dangerous. It’s bad shit, and this is why state-church separation is really important. The UK sucks at this, given that they still actually have a state church, and weirdly having a Christian church endorsed by the state winds up making it easier for radical versions of other faiths to also flourish.

We have this weird view of the US of Europe being all totally secular, but it’s really not. It’s more secular than the US, but there’s plenty of staunchly religious people and lots of religious values in their politics and governance.

89 Ming  Apr 26, 2014 6:48:49pm

re: #86 SteveMcGazi

re: #87 Killgore Trout

Thanks; these are 2 great examples.

Since it seems that “public atheists” (e.g. Sam Harris, Christopher Hitchens) are so often (I would frankly say) offensive, it’s really a pleasure for me, as an atheist, to know about “better role models” for my intellectual point of view (Sagan, Asimov, Tyson).

90 sattv4u2  Apr 26, 2014 6:50:23pm

And on that note, the long quiet drive home beckons

91 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Apr 26, 2014 6:50:35pm

re: #85 Ming

I’ll be on the lookout for that, the next time I read him. I wouldn’t be shocked; frankly, my impression is that Dawkins manages to be respectful, but often dances very close to the line.

Now that I think about it (and it would be interesting to know what others here at LGF think) I guess the “friendliest” atheist I can think of is Carl Sagan.

Don Cupitt and the other Sea of Faith folks are pointedly friendly. They see religion as a purely human construction, but valuable because, rather than in spite of, that.

92 Decatur Deb  Apr 26, 2014 6:52:32pm

re: #80 GeneJockey

I’m just trying to figure out what it all IS, let alone what it all MEANS. There appears to be one guy with a flute up his ass, and another crapping coins, while a bird-headed blue frog eats one guy and seems to be laying an egg from which another guy is dripping. I think I’d find my dealer and beat the ever loving shit out of him for giving me such bad dope!

Ya hadda be there.

93 Romantic Heretic  Apr 26, 2014 6:52:58pm

re: #89 Ming

I often find atheists are simply reflections of their fundamentalist counterparts. They know they are right. They know that there can be not the slightest deviation from their beliefs. They know anyone who does is evil. Not mistaken. Not possessing a different opinion. Evil.

It’s why I’m an agnostic. I haven’t the faith to support either stance, and am annoyed at people who believe I’m wicked for being that way.

94 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Apr 26, 2014 6:54:41pm

re: #93 Romantic Heretic

You’re probably actually an atheist in common parlance. Even Dawkins is technically an ‘agnostic’ by the standard you’re using.

I’ve found very few people who assert god must not exist, not that they just don’t believe he exists.

95 SteveMcGazi  Apr 26, 2014 6:55:04pm

One thing about Asimov, what patience he had was lost on astrology buffs. He had nothing but scorn for that.

96 Decatur Deb  Apr 26, 2014 6:55:54pm

re: #91 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

Don Cupitt and the other Sea of Faith folks are pointedly friendly. They see religion as a purely human construction, but valuable because, rather than in spite of, that.

For religion-tolerant atheists, check in at any decent university anthropology department. Most there are non-religious, and most know what religion is for. Cultures that don’t find a way to organize the World of the Non-existent tend to become non-existent.

97 Mattand  Apr 26, 2014 7:00:00pm

IMO, religion’s famous ability to get smart people to do stupid things is starting to outweigh its ability to foster community and identity.

If it gets you through the day, more power to you. But it’s probably time to start letting go.

98 Gus  Apr 26, 2014 7:00:03pm
99 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Apr 26, 2014 7:00:21pm

re: #96 Decatur Deb

For religion-tolerant atheists, check in at any decent university anthropology department. Most there are non-religious, and most know what religion is for. Cultures that don’t find a way to organize the World of the Non-existent tend to become non-existent.

One thing I’ve become more and more convinced of when reading primary sources from Long Ago is that people back then were a lot less orthodox than our general idea. There were atheists, there were people who had whacky ideas. During certain eras they had to shut the hell up about it, but there’s plenty of places where if one dude thought there was only one God people’s reaction would have been “Oh Hjardstol, you so crazy”, rather than burning them as a heretic. The intersection of religion and the heresies being taken seriously tend to be when those heresies are of the “Hey, maybe the power structure around here should be different, because of this religious idea i just had.”

Arianism used to be a really big deal, but these days, I’d venture that most Catholics are actually Arianist, but it stopped mattering because it stopped being politically important.

101 Gus  Apr 26, 2014 7:02:02pm
102 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Apr 26, 2014 7:02:19pm

re: #100 Gus

There’s no one else quite like him. Few people are as instantly recognizable.

103 Gus  Apr 26, 2014 7:02:29pm

#JardínDeliciasBosco

104 Dark_Falcon  Apr 26, 2014 7:02:48pm

Evening, all. Don’t mind me, I’m just observing as far as the religion discussion goes. I don’t have the knowledge needed to engage with Obdicut on that issue, so I’m going to just sit back and listen.

105 Mattand  Apr 26, 2014 7:03:03pm

re: #99 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

Arianism used to be a really big deal, but these days, I’d venture that most Catholics are actually Arianist, but it stopped mattering because it stopped being politically important.

Dammit, here it is, Saturday night, and you’re making me look up new words and concepts.

106 SteveMcGazi  Apr 26, 2014 7:03:20pm

If I understand twitter correctly, a picture is only worth 140 characters?

107 Gus  Apr 26, 2014 7:03:28pm

This link instead: twitter.com

108 Romantic Heretic  Apr 26, 2014 7:03:36pm

My Dad’s going to be dying soon.

I’m not sure how I feel about it. We’ve never been close and he didn’t really make my childhood a pleasant one. He’s more an acquaintance than a family member.

My Mom needs what support I can give though.

Sigh.

109 SteveMcGazi  Apr 26, 2014 7:05:02pm

re: #108 Romantic Heretic

I think there’s something between you that needs resolution. Don’t waste time. If he wasn’t a bad guy I mean. He might need you more than you realize.

110 Mattand  Apr 26, 2014 7:05:47pm

re: #108 Romantic Heretic

My Dad’s going to be dying soon.

I’m not sure how I feel about it. We’ve never been close and he didn’t really make my childhood a pleasant one. He’s more an acquaintance than a family member.

My Mom needs what support I can give though.

Sigh.

Sorry to hear that. You’ve got the right idea about doing what you can for your mom. Hang in there.

111 Killgore Trout  Apr 26, 2014 7:05:56pm

re: #97 Mattand

it’s probably time to start letting go.

You will be hard pressed to find a better method of “letting go” than Zen.

112 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Apr 26, 2014 7:06:26pm

re: #105 Mattand

Dammit, here it is, Saturday night, and you’re making me look up new words and concepts.

Heh. For those who haven’t looked it up, it’s basically the belief that God created Jesus, that in some ways Jesus is subordinate to, created by, or less powerful than God.

Since the idea of the trinity is non-logical, or kind of anti-logical, it’s basically asserting that 1=3, people tend to mentally reject it and replace it with something that makes more sense—that God is the big deal, he created Jesus to save our sins, and the Holy Ghost floats around inspiring people or something, and that basically Jesus and the Holy Ghost work for God.

113 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Apr 26, 2014 7:07:16pm

re: #111 Killgore Trout

You will be hard pressed to find a better method of “letting go” than Zen.

Half-assedly contrarian and Zen are different things.

114 Decatur Deb  Apr 26, 2014 7:07:43pm

re: #111 Killgore Trout

You will be hard pressed to find a better method of “letting go” than Zen.

Zen there were none.

115 SteveMcGazi  Apr 26, 2014 7:10:25pm

re: #108 Romantic Heretic

I vaguely remember a story about one of the Grateful Dead’s musicians (Phil Lesh maybe?) wrote a song called “Box of Rain” about his strained relationship with his father.

116 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Apr 26, 2014 7:10:28pm

re: #114 Decatur Deb

Zen there were none.

What did the Dali Lama say to the hot dog vendor?

“I don’t eat meat, so do you have any… no veggie dogs? Okay. Um, I’m really hungry, how about just a couple of buns filled with relish and mustard. Oh man, my heartburn is going to be bad, but for fuck’s sake, I just fought two rounds with Brian Blessed.* And do you have Fanta? You do? Awesome, that totally makes up for everything.”

*Note, this actually happened.

117 freetoken  Apr 26, 2014 7:11:58pm

re: #112 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

Historically, the “Trinity” is a compromise, a way for 3rd century leaders to broker the differences between views of religious congregations and their preachers, after enough time had passed since the spread of Christianity around the Roman empire and people started to ask tough questions.

That’s the rub with Bart Ehrman’s latest book, and why fundamentalists hate him all over again. At heart, Erhman is just restating what the critics have been saying for centuries - that the deification of a Jewish itinerant preacher was added after the fact.

118 Decatur Deb  Apr 26, 2014 7:12:07pm

re: #116 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

What did the Dali Lama say to the hot dog vendor?

[Embedded content]

*Note, this actually happened.

The other answer: “Make me one with everything.”

119 Mattand  Apr 26, 2014 7:14:09pm

re: #111 Killgore Trout

You will be hard pressed to find a better method of “letting go” than Zen.

LOL, unfortunately, a sudden global outbreak of Mahayana Buddhism probably isn’t in the offing anytime soon.

120 SteveMcGazi  Apr 26, 2014 7:14:58pm

re: #111 Killgore Trout

You will be hard pressed to find a better method of “letting go” than Zen.

Fuck it

121 Decatur Deb  Apr 26, 2014 7:16:45pm

re: #120 SteveMcGazi

Fuck it

That would fit nicely on a little prayer wheel.

122 Dark_Falcon  Apr 26, 2014 7:17:39pm

Submitted under the “Unwise” category:

Missouri House seeks to impeach governor over gay marriage, concealed carry (VIDEO)

The Missouri House Judiciary Committee is considering three articles of impeachment against Gov. Jay Nixon for issues on guns, gay marriage, and special elections.

The first, HR380, pertains to Nixon issuing Executive Order 13-14, which honors same-sex marriage and allows them file taxes jointly. The order, however, violates the Missouri law that bans same-sex marriage.

“It’s clear — Missouri’s constitution says we shall not recognize marriage between other than a man and a woman, and the governor has done the exact opposite,” State Rep. Nick Marshall sponsor of the resolution told the House Judiciary Committee.

“My argument is that this is such a serious blatant violation of Missouri’s constitution and Missouri’s law that the governor must be removed from office,” Marshall said.

123 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Apr 26, 2014 7:19:29pm

re: #119 Mattand

LOL, unfortunately, a sudden global outbreak of Mahayana Buddhism probably isn’t in the offing anytime soon.

Buddhists and Zen adherents have had plenty of wars and fucked-up shit, too. There’s no magic system of thought, and you can get just as tradition-bound with Zen as you can with anything else. The WWII-era Japanese dudes who marched Japan into militarism were Zen Buddhists.

124 William Barnett-Lewis  Apr 26, 2014 7:22:47pm

re: #96 Decatur Deb

For religion-tolerant atheists, check in at any decent university anthropology department. Most there are non-religious, and most know what religion is for. Cultures that don’t find a way to organize the World of the Non-existent tend to become non-existent.

People need rituals. You don’t have to believe it (half the time I don’t believe in the afterlife. God, yes. Heaven, no.) but people need ways to structure the changes in our lives.

Birth, death, weddings, the cycle of the year (via the life of a religious figure like Christ or the seasons) and so on. It’s funny being Episcopalian because so many of the words of our Book of Common Prayer got used by Hollywood that most people think of weddings and funerals by the words of the BCP: Ashes to ashes, dust to dust …, in the midst of life…, Dearly beloved, we are gathered together here in the sight of God - are all from the prayer book and are used by many without realizing that.

Now I’m the first to admit these are not the only or even best rituals. Just that people need rituals and these are the things they will need psychologically even if everyone became non-religious overnight.

But I do like my smells & bells and serving the cup last Sunday for Easter with it’s aspergillum & thurible & exsultet are what do it for me :)

125 Dark_Falcon  Apr 26, 2014 7:23:14pm

re: #123 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

Buddhists and Zen adherents have had plenty of wars and fucked-up shit, too. There’s no magic system of thought, and you can get just as tradition-bound with Zen as you can with anything else. The WWII-era Japanese dudes who marched Japan into militarism were Zen Buddhists.

They were more motivated by Japan’s traditional cultural chauvinism than the teachings of Buddha. I know that makes your point rather than contradicts it, but I wanted to add my 2 cents.

126 Kragar  Apr 26, 2014 7:25:06pm
127 SteveMcGazi  Apr 26, 2014 7:25:09pm

re: #123 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

That’s what you call Falcon bait.

128 William Barnett-Lewis  Apr 26, 2014 7:26:15pm

re: #99 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

Arianism used to be a really big deal, but these days, I’d venture that most Catholics are actually Arianist, but it stopped mattering because it stopped being politically important.

Strong strands of Pelagianism & Universalism are also to be found (IME & all that) in the folkways of a lot of Christians.

129 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Apr 26, 2014 7:27:31pm

re: #125 Dark_Falcon

They were more motivated by Japan’s traditional cultural chauvinism than the teachings of Buddha. I know that makes your point rather than contradicts it, but I wanted to add my 2 cents.

I’m not sure how you take Buddhism out of Japan’s traditional cultural chauvinism; a lot of that comes from Buddhism.

130 Mattand  Apr 26, 2014 7:32:11pm

My “No, I’m an independent now, not a conservative” acquaintance claims to be a Buddhist.

Personally, I think he feels he needs to have some sort of religion in order to make you a good person/American. I think he’s claiming Buddhism because most people know very little about it and won’t challenge him on the particulars.

This guy’s big objection to the ACA is that Obama is supposedly forcing his morality on the country. The idea that trying to make sure that people get easier access to health care is somehow an immoral act kinda makes me doubt the whole Buddhism angle.

131 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Apr 26, 2014 7:35:45pm

re: #130 Mattand

The idea that trying to make sure that people get easier access to health care is somehow an immoral act kinda makes me doubt the whole Buddhism angle.

Buddhism, like any other religious system of thought, can be worked around to justify just about anything. There is a long history of Buddhist thought valuing suffering, and seeing illnesses as karmic and there being importance in the experience of illness. In the best cases, this is a good philosophical exercise at realizing that life doesn’t need to be an unspoiled parade of happiness to be nifty, that suffering can produce something of value.

At the most extreme, it says to deny yourself medical care so as to embrace your karmic path.

It’s a testament to human creativity that you can come up with the same real-world output by starting inside virtually any of the major religions.

132 GeneJockey  Apr 26, 2014 7:36:49pm

re: #126 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Hubris.

133 GeneJockey  Apr 26, 2014 7:38:39pm

re: #123 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

Buddhists and Zen adherents have had plenty of wars and fucked-up shit, too. There’s no magic system of thought, and you can get just as tradition-bound with Zen as you can with anything else. The WWII-era Japanese dudes who marched Japan into militarism were Zen Buddhists.

There are Jews in the world,
There are Buddhists.
There are Hindus and Mormons and then,
There are those who follow Mohammed,
But I’ve never been one of them!

134 Killgore Trout  Apr 26, 2014 7:39:11pm

re: #120 SteveMcGazi

Fuck it

That’s the spirit!

135 Kragar  Apr 26, 2014 7:40:37pm
136 Decatur Deb  Apr 26, 2014 7:41:11pm

re: #124 William Barnett-Lewis

People need rituals….snip

But I do like my smells & bells and serving the cup last Sunday for Easter with it’s aspergillum & thurible & exsultet are what do it for me :)

The first altar server showed up on time for Mass, and cleaned up in the vestry sink saying “Lavabo inter innocentes manus meas,..”

The second kid barely made it on time, splashed himself, and muttered “Asperges me’ as he got in position.

The third was making a dive to get in line, so he blasted past the sink and panted “Vidi aquam”.

137 Dark_Falcon  Apr 26, 2014 7:41:34pm

re: #129 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

I’m not sure how you take Buddhism out of Japan’s traditional cultural chauvinism; a lot of that comes from Buddhism.

OK, now I’m curious. Please elaborate.

138 Killgore Trout  Apr 26, 2014 7:42:26pm

re: #119 Mattand

LOL, unfortunately, a sudden global outbreak of Mahayana Buddhism probably isn’t in the offing anytime soon.

The Khans will rise again!

139 Pie-onist Overlord  Apr 26, 2014 7:44:21pm

Wow what a breathtakingly stupid meme.
They just don’t understand that there are LIBRULS and GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEES who enjoy hunting.

140 SteveMcGazi  Apr 26, 2014 7:44:27pm

Obdi, just tug on the line a little bit. He wanted to stay on the sidelines, now he’s nibbling…

141 Feline Fearless Leader  Apr 26, 2014 7:45:01pm

re: #116 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

What did the Dali Lama say to the hot dog vendor?

[Embedded content]

*Note, this actually happened.

And the vendor refused to give him any change, saying “Change comes from within” when asked about it.

142 Kragar  Apr 26, 2014 7:47:28pm
143 SteveMcGazi  Apr 26, 2014 7:47:49pm

I’m curious to see how Obdi yanks the line and drags Dark Falcon in but I gotta go. I’ll check in later

144 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Apr 26, 2014 7:47:51pm

re: #137 Dark_Falcon

OK, now I’m curious. Please elaborate.

I have no idea what you need elaborated. Chauvinism in the form of preferring the male over the female is very basic to Buddhism. The idea of a cultural being superior by nature of its ideology and dedication to a selfless path, that sort of chauvinism, is also very tied to Buddhism.

That period of Japanese militarism was hardly the first, Buddhism, hierarchy, chauvinism, and militarism had all been strongly intertwined for centuries by then.

Are you trying to make a point about ‘the teachings of Buddah’ as something separate from Buddhism, the same way we say that Christians don’t tend to act anything like Christ actually preached—they don’t give up their worldly possessions, for example?

145 Dark_Falcon  Apr 26, 2014 7:48:22pm

re: #139 Pie-onist Overlord

Wow what a breathtakingly stupid meme.
They just don’t understand that there are LIBRULS and GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEES who enjoy hunting.

[Embedded content]

The first point I’d make in response to that: Wlewisiii, Cheesehead liberal.

The second point: Why does that guy have a 30 round magazine if he’s going deer hunting? I’m pretty sure that’s illegal in Wisconsin.

146 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Apr 26, 2014 7:48:34pm

re: #143 SteveMcGazi

I’m curious to see how Obdi yanks the line and drags Dark Falcon in but I gotta go. I’ll check in later

There’s no ‘line’, I’m not trolling, it’s just a conversation. Let’s not be too internet.

147 Mattand  Apr 26, 2014 7:49:16pm

re: #131 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

Buddhism, like any other religious system of thought, can be worked around to justify just about anything. There is a long history of Buddhist thought valuing suffering, and seeing illnesses as karmic and there being importance in the experience of illness. In the best cases, this is a good philosophical exercise at realizing that life doesn’t need to be an unspoiled parade of happiness to be nifty, that suffering can produce something of value.

At the most extreme, it says to deny yourself medical care so as to embrace your karmic path.

It’s a testament to human creativity that you can come up with the same real-world output by starting inside virtually any of the major religions.

That’s a great analysis, but probably doesn’t apply to my friend. To be blunt, he doesn’t think that deep.

Again, just speculation, but he’s indicated in the past that his mom was one of those God Squad types who condemned everyone else while overlooking her foibles. He doesn’t want to get involved with Christianity, but doesn’t want people to think he’s atheist.

I really honestly think he claims Buddhism as a quick-and-easy beard so that people won’t condemn him as a baby-eating heathen who makes the dudes on Mount Rushmore weep giant boulder-sized tears of anguish.

148 SteveMcGazi  Apr 26, 2014 7:49:26pm

re: #146 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

There’s no ‘line’, I’m not trolling, it’s just a conversation. Let’s not be too internet.

Looks to me you landed him. But I really gotta go.

149 Dark_Falcon  Apr 26, 2014 7:50:13pm

re: #144 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

I have no idea what you need elaborated. Chauvinism in the form of preferring the male over the female is very basic to Buddhism. The idea of a cultural being superior by nature of its ideology and dedication to a selfless path, that sort of chauvinism, is also very tied to Buddhism.

That period of Japanese militarism was hardly the first, Buddhism, hierarchy, chauvinism, and militarism had all been strongly intertwined for centuries by then.

Are you trying to make a point about ‘the teachings of Buddah’ as something separate from Buddhism, the same way we say that Christians don’t tend to act anything like Christ actually preached—they don’t give up their worldly possessions, for example?

No, I just have a picture in my mind of Buddhism as essentially pacifist. I know that’s not wholly right, but its part of how I see that faith.

150 Mattand  Apr 26, 2014 7:50:40pm

re: #139 Pie-onist Overlord

Wow what a breathtakingly stupid meme.
They just don’t understand that there are LIBRULS and GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEES who enjoy hunting.

[Embedded content]

Two words: Daisy cutter.

151 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Apr 26, 2014 7:54:11pm

re: #149 Dark_Falcon

No, i just have a picture in my mind of Buddhism as essentially pacifist. I know that’s not wholly right, but its part of how I see that faith.

It’s not just not ‘wholly’ right, it’s just not right. The Buddhist countries, historically, have fought wars, put down rebellions, had state executions, just like other countries. It’s like thinking that because one of the commandments is ‘thou shalt not kill’ and Jesus stayed the sword in the garden that Christianity is a pacifist religion.

152 Mattand  Apr 26, 2014 7:54:17pm

re: #139 Pie-onist Overlord

I’m also guessing that about 60% of those 1.3 million “patriots” would probably be cut down by friendly fire in about 24 hours.

Because blowing away a fucking deer is an exact substitute for years of military and weapons training.

Idiots…

153 Killgore Trout  Apr 26, 2014 7:54:33pm

re: #149 Dark_Falcon

No, i just have a picture in my mind of Buddhism as essentially pacifist. I know that’s not wholly right, but its part of how I see that faith.

Nope. That’s mostly just a Western myth. It’s largely a peaceful religion these days but there’s plenty of bloody history.

154 Mattand  Apr 26, 2014 7:56:22pm

re: #145 Dark_Falcon

The second point: Why does that guy have a 30 round magazine if he’s going deer hunting? I’m pretty sure that’s illegal in Wisconsin.

The deer may have a box cutter.

155 goddamnedfrank  Apr 26, 2014 7:59:23pm

re: #131 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

Buddhism, like any other religious system of thought, can be worked around to justify just about anything. There is a long history of Buddhist thought valuing suffering, and seeing illnesses as karmic and there being importance in the experience of illness. In the best cases, this is a good philosophical exercise at realizing that life doesn’t need to be an unspoiled parade of happiness to be nifty, that suffering can produce something of value.

At the most extreme, it says to deny yourself medical care so as to embrace your karmic path.

It’s a testament to human creativity that you can come up with the same real-world output by starting inside virtually any of the major religions.

They’re all about trying to make sense out of a reality that clearly is not ruled according to any kind of discernible ethicality. My problem with Buddhist Karma and reincarnation is that it just seems like an inversion of the Just World Hypothesis. Instead of believing that God as a personality works in mysterious ways and bad things tend to happen to bad people with Heaven and Hell waiting to balance the ledger, all actions have mysterious consequences that often happen behind the scenes or by mysterious hidden non-theistic mechanisms. What can seemingly be ascribed to these forces in this world is, and what can’t be is simply asserted to be dealt with in subsequent incarnations.

Both views can I think frequently lead to institutionalizing injustice.

156 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Apr 26, 2014 7:59:56pm

re: #153 Killgore Trout

Nope. That’s mostly just a Western myth. It’s largely a peaceful religion these days but there’s plenty of bloody history.

It’s really silly to talk of any religion either being ‘peaceful’ or not. Buddhists states like Thailand don’t have any difficulty using state violence. There’s staggeringly few actually pacifist religions.

157 Feline Fearless Leader  Apr 26, 2014 8:00:19pm

re: #154 Mattand

The deer may have a box cutter.

Not to mention that deer hunting in PA is muzzle loader, shotgun, or otherwise non-military* rifle (bolt action or lever action - no semi-auto allowed.)

* - Not modern military. I hunted with a WW2-era 8mm Mauser that been modified for use as a hunting weapon.

158 sagehen  Apr 26, 2014 8:01:02pm

re: #123 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

Buddhists and Zen adherents have had plenty of wars and fucked-up shit, too. There’s no magic system of thought, and you can get just as tradition-bound with Zen as you can with anything else. The WWII-era Japanese dudes who marched Japan into militarism were Zen Buddhists.

Pretty sure they were Shinto.

159 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Apr 26, 2014 8:03:10pm

re: #158 sagehen

Pretty sure they were Shinto.

There’s no conflict between the two, but Tojo was definitely Buddhist.

160 NJDhockeyfan  Apr 26, 2014 8:03:27pm
161 Killgore Trout  Apr 26, 2014 8:04:01pm

re: #158 sagehen

Pretty sure they were Shinto.

They were/are. Zen is a very small minority in Japan and China.

162 RealityBasedSteve  Apr 26, 2014 8:04:33pm

Haven’t seen this posted up-thread….

Snoop Dogg has an opinion for Donald Sterling (Absolutely NSFW, Small Children, or those of a delicate sensibility. )

instagram.com

RBS

163 William Barnett-Lewis  Apr 26, 2014 8:07:19pm

re: #145 Dark_Falcon

The second point: Why does that guy have a 30 round magazine if he’s going deer hunting? I’m pretty sure that’s illegal in Wisconsin.

It’s legal. No magazine limit on deer rifles here.(dnr.wi.gov) I have other problems than that with people using a varmint round to hunt deer but if they need to carry the extra weight of a 30 rounder over a 5 or 10 round mag, that’s their biz.

OTOH, given the new Ares SCR, I might even be tempted, Fudd that I am, into getting a AR based rifle in 7.62x39mm. aresdefense.com

164 goddamnedfrank  Apr 26, 2014 8:09:37pm

re: #143 SteveMcGazi

I’m curious to see how Obdi yanks the line and drags Dark Falcon in but I gotta go. I’ll check in later

Maybe when you do you can look at this.

Morris, associate professor of criminology at UT Dallas, and his colleagues looked at crime rates for all 50 U.S. states from 1990 to 2006. During this period, 11 states legalized medical marijuana. The researchers examined legalization’s effect on what the FBI calls Part I crimes, which include homicide, rape, robbery, aggravated assault, burglary, larceny and auto theft.

“After controlling for a host of known factors related to changes in crime rates — we accounted for factors such as poverty, employment, education, even per capita beer sales, among other things — we found no evidence of increases in any of these crimes for states after legalizing marijuana for medical use,” Morris said. “In fact, for some forms of violence — homicide and assault — we found partial support for declines after the passing of this legislation.”

Data for the study came from state websites, FBI Uniform Crime Reports, the census, The Bureau of Labor Statistics, The Bureau of Economic Analysis and the Beer Institute.

Since last time I remember seeing you you were ignorantly spouting off about how marijuana users subsidize murders. Murders that anybody with half a brain would properly ascribe to the environment prohibition creates.

165 Dark_Falcon  Apr 26, 2014 8:09:38pm

re: #163 William Barnett-Lewis

It’s legal. No magazine limit on deer rifles here.(dnr.wi.gov) I have other problems than that with people using a varmint round to hunt deer but if they need to carry the extra weight of a 30 rounder over a 5 or 10 round mag, that’s their biz.

OTOH, given the new Ares SCR, I might even be tempted, Fudd that I am, into getting a AR based rifle in 7.62x39mm. aresdefense.com

I’ve been looking at that one myself, since its an AR-15 action without any of the ‘scary assault weapon’ features and thus I could likely own it legally.

166 goddamnedfrank  Apr 26, 2014 8:11:31pm

re: #161 Killgore Trout

They were/are. Zen is a very small minority in Japan and China.

Buddhism and Shinto are syncretic, and you are a goddamned moron.

About 85 million people in Japan, accounting for 2/3 of the population, are affiliated with Buddhism in some way, often nominally - in various surveys, 70-85% of Japanese profess no religious membership or personal religion.[2][3][4][5] Most Japanese Buddhists are also similarly affiliated with Shinto, as neither of the two religions demand exclusivity.

167 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Apr 26, 2014 8:11:43pm

re: #161 Killgore Trout

They were/are. Zen is a very small minority in Japan and China.

If you want to replace that treasured ignorance of yours with some knowledge, the book “Zen War Stories” is an excellent analysis of of the influence of Zen on Japanese militarism, as is “Zen at War”.

amazon.com

amazon.com

168 Dark_Falcon  Apr 26, 2014 8:17:32pm

re: #166 goddamnedfrank

Tonight it’s Killgore, last night it was me; Is there something compelling you to call people names lately?

169 goddamnedfrank  Apr 26, 2014 8:20:56pm

This isn’t exactly a controversial contention folks:

Japanese identity was being articulated in the Nihonjinron-philosophy, the Japanese uniqueness-theory. A broad range of subjects was taken as typical of Japanese culture. D.T. Suzuki contributed to the Nihonjinron-philosophy by taking Zen as the distinctive token of Asian spirituality, showing its unique character in the Japanese culture.[20]

During World War II, almost all Buddhists temples strongly supported Japan’s militarization.[21][22][23][24][25][26] In contrast, a few individuals such as Ichikawa Haku,[27] and Seno’o Girō were targeted, and the Soka Kyoiku Gakkai, a lay believers’ organization was ultimately banned by military authorities. During the 1940s, “leaders of both Honmon Hokkeshu and Sokka Gakkai were imprisoned for their defiance of wartime government religious policy, which mandated display of reverence for state Shinto.”[28][29][30]

In many Asian cultures religion isn’t the all encompassing single entré meal it is in the West.

“We take what we want and leave the rest, just like your salad bar.”
-Egg Shen, Big Trouble in Little China

170 Eclectic Cyborg  Apr 26, 2014 8:21:14pm

re: #23 sattv4u2

Athletic prowess runs in the family

But in the 1990s - another moment in time when an event in North Korea varies (some say it happened in 1991 and others in 1994), the late dictator, then 50 (or 53) years old, set a golfing standard that will assuredly never be surpassed. It occurred at the grand opening of the Pyongyang Golf Complex, which contains North Korea’s only 18-hole golf course.

After picking up a golf club that day for the very first time in his life, the Dear Leader of the Democratic People’s Republic of North Korea fired a 38-under-par round of 34 at Pyongyang. According to the 17 security guards who observed the performance, the score included an amazing 11 aces. Naturally, the event was dutifully reported to the North Korean masses by the state news agency.

The Kim family must have taken tips from Mr. Perfect…

Youtube Video

171 goddamnedfrank  Apr 26, 2014 8:30:00pm

re: #168 Dark_Falcon

Tonight it’s Killgore, last night it was me; Is there something compelling you to call people names lately?

You support bigots, ignorant, pathetic, mean spirited bigots simply because of a political brand name. You don’t even think when you do it, and you no longer even try to bother defending your support for these bigots when called on it. There’s nothing respectable about that, especially when you use tone as a pathetic excuse not to deal with honest if harsh criticism. You and Flounder don’t like my comment, twelve other posters did including the only one who can ban me for bad behavior. So if you want to start earning respect again I suggest you stop bitching about how you’re treated and start defend your points of view intelligently, either that or stop saying stupid shit.

172 palomino  Apr 26, 2014 8:34:01pm

re: #32 Gus

Which Democrats are squirming about this? If liberals in media and politics had spent the last two weeks publicly kissing Sterling’s ass, making him into a Bunyan-esque ideological warrior-hero, we might have some equivalence here. But nothing like that happened.

The whole “Dems are the real racists” line can be used as a litmus test to judge conservatives. Kinda like the birth certificate. Once you buy into those positions, you’ve basically lost all credibility with whatever is left of intellectual conservatism. Because the remaining principled conservatives care about facts and history. They know there’s a birth certificate, just like they know that the Dems of today aren’t racists merely because the southern Dems of 50-150 years ago actually were racists.

173 RealityBasedSteve  Apr 26, 2014 8:36:01pm

Caribou Barbie once again makes an ass of herself…

Sarah Palin: ‘Waterboarding is how we’d baptize terrorists’ in her administration

NDIANAPOLIS — Former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin fired up a crowd of thousands inside Lucas Oil Stadium Saturday night to kick off the National Rifle Association’s “Stand and Fight Rally,” saying Americans’ constitutional rights as envisioned by the founding fathers are under attack and policies like gun-free zones constitute “stupid on steroids.”

Read more: washingtontimes.com
Follow us: @washtimes on Twitter

She also derided those who she said place an emphasis on political correctness in handling the country’s adversaries “instead of putting the fear of God in our enemies.”
She said later in her address that if “I were in charge” — a line that drew applause from the crowd — “they would know that waterboarding is how we baptize terrorists.”

And of course the RWNJ’s are busy fapping themselves into a state of exhaustion over this.

RBS

174 DKoch  Apr 26, 2014 8:37:32pm

re: #11 Charles Johnson

Nice portrait of Rand Paul

175 palomino  Apr 26, 2014 8:41:49pm

re: #139 Pie-onist Overlord

Wow what a breathtakingly stupid meme.
They just don’t understand that there are LIBRULS and GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEES who enjoy hunting.

[Embedded content]

Those numbers sound fabricated. 614,000 armed adults in the woods of Wisconsin all on one single day? That’s over 10% of the population of the entire state, all hunting on the same day? Exclude young children, old people and the sick and now you’re talking more like 20% of the whole state out in the woods armed on the same day. Maybe, but VERY unlikely.

176 NJDhockeyfan  Apr 26, 2014 8:42:56pm

Evening lizards! What’s with all the anger on this lovely Saturday night?

177 palomino  Apr 26, 2014 8:44:42pm

re: #173 RealityBasedSteve

Caribou Barbie once again makes an ass of herself…

NDIANAPOLIS — Former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin fired up a crowd of thousands inside Lucas Oil Stadium Saturday night to kick off the National Rifle Association’s “Stand and Fight Rally,” saying Americans’ constitutional rights as envisioned by the founding fathers are under attack and policies like gun-free zones constitute “stupid on steroids.”

Read more: washingtontimes.com
Follow us: @washtimes on Twitter

She also derided those who she said place an emphasis on political correctness in handling the country’s adversaries “instead of putting the fear of God in our enemies.”
She said later in her address that if “I were in charge” — a line that drew applause from the crowd — “they would know that waterboarding is how we baptize terrorists.”

And of course the RWNJ’s are busy fapping themselves into a state of exhaustion over this.

RBS

It’s so cute that she can imagine being president. Like a dwarf fantasizing about playing in the NBA.

178 Decatur Deb  Apr 26, 2014 8:46:40pm

re: #176 NJDhockeyfan

Evening lizards! What’s with all the anger on this lovely Saturday night?

We were deprived of your calming influence.

179 DKoch  Apr 26, 2014 8:47:30pm

Shorter RWNJ: progressives are the real bigots because they discriminate against racists

180 psddluva4evah  Apr 26, 2014 8:47:32pm

My last thoughts tonight on this Sterling thing:

181 William Barnett-Lewis  Apr 26, 2014 8:47:33pm

re: #175 palomino

Those numbers sound fabricated. 614,000 armed adults in the woods of Wisconsin all on one single day? That’s over 10% of the population of the entire state, all hunting on the same day? Exclude young children, old people and the sick and now you’re talking more like 20% of the whole state out in the woods armed on the same day. Maybe, but VERY unlikely.

That percentage was probably accurate through the mid-70’s. I can remember most northern WI school districts closing for all of deer season since so few students would be there. In the larger cities, like Eau Claire, they probably should have just closed as there were so few students there. Heck, even the mayors of Madison have usually been hunters and not just hunting the wild Photo-Op… ;)

Now? Far fewer hunters and many more deer - though this past winter was really hard on the herd so next fall may be another low count season.

182 NJDhockeyfan  Apr 26, 2014 8:47:57pm

re: #178 Decatur Deb

We were deprived of your calming influence.

Thanks! How about a little therapy?

Youtube Video

183 NJDhockeyfan  Apr 26, 2014 8:50:15pm
184 Ming  Apr 26, 2014 8:53:14pm

re: #93 Romantic Heretic

I often find atheists are simply reflections of their fundamentalist counterparts. They know they are right. They know that there can be not the slightest deviation from their beliefs. They know anyone who does is evil. Not mistaken. Not possessing a different opinion. Evil.

It’s why I’m an agnostic. I haven’t the faith to support either stance, and am annoyed at people who believe I’m wicked for being that way.

I’m nit picking, but I would like to mention the problem I have with agnosticism. Imagine if someone says, “I’m agnostic about Zeus. Maybe he lives on Mount Olympus, and maybe he doesn’t. I have equal respect for either position.”.

Or, same thing, “I’m agnostic about Argentinian astrology. Maybe it’s the key to understanding some phenomena, like why a person’s birthday determines his emotional disposition, and maybe it’s not. I have equal respect for either position.”.

185 Gus  Apr 26, 2014 8:55:35pm
186 palomino  Apr 26, 2014 8:55:52pm

re: #52 Killgore Trout

I’m not so much of a Dawkins fan. I liked Hitchens but he was often a douche when the topic of religion came up. I’m an atheist but I like religion. There are all sorts of people who believe all sorts of nutty stuff, sometimes it’s extreme and dangerous but I think religion is a source of beauty, music, art and culture. A world without religion would be duller.

I tend to agree with the late great John Lennon’s assessment in “Imagine.” A beautiful song with equally beautiful lyrics. He certainly didn’t need religion to do this. Music, art and culture, especially in modern times in the West, are far less dependent on religion, either as benefactor of the arts or inspiration for content. I think we’re all better off for that.

Imagine there’s no heaven
It’s easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today…
Imagine there’s no countries
It isn’t hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace…
You may say I’m a dreamer
But I’m not the only one
I hope someday you’ll join us
And the world will be as one
Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world…
You may say I’m a dreamer
But I’m not the only one
I hope someday you’ll join us
And the world will live as one

187 Gus  Apr 26, 2014 8:56:41pm
188 William Barnett-Lewis  Apr 26, 2014 8:58:34pm

Good night all. Tomorrow will be a long day and it’s going to be here soon enough.

189 Eclectic Cyborg  Apr 26, 2014 8:58:35pm

re: #185 Gus

[Embedded content]

Terrorists!

190 Gus  Apr 26, 2014 9:00:42pm
191 Gus  Apr 26, 2014 9:07:43pm
192 Mattand  Apr 26, 2014 9:08:43pm

re: #93 Romantic Heretic

I often find atheists are simply reflections of their fundamentalist counterparts. They know they are right. They know that there can be not the slightest deviation from their beliefs. They know anyone who does is evil. Not mistaken. Not possessing a different opinion. Evil.

It’s why I’m an agnostic. I haven’t the faith to support either stance, and am annoyed at people who believe I’m wicked for being that way.

re: #184 Ming

I’m nit picking, but I would like to mention the problem I have with agnosticism. Imagine if someone says, “I’m agnostic about Zeus. Maybe he lives on Mount Olympus, and maybe he doesn’t. I have equal respect for either position.”.

Or, same thing, “I’m agnostic about Argentinian astrology. Maybe it’s the key to understanding some phenomena, like why a person’s birthday determines his emotional disposition, and maybe it’s not. I have equal respect for either position.”.

Wow. I missed this earlier.

I’m sorry but the statement that atheists are the other side of the fundamentalist coin from the religious is a classic false balance, with a hint of straw man.

Could there be a god as described in the Bible, Koran, etc.? Sure. If you can prove it, I’ll haul my ass back to church tomorrow.

But that’s the rub: you can’t prove the existence of a being who, by its very nature, can defy all natural laws as we know them; or chooses to identify itself in the most oblique ways possible.

Shit, even Dawkins is on record as saying there’s a chance he might be wrong, and there is some sort of Big Dude pulling the strings. At some point, though, you’ve got to admit you have nothing. You can’t keep playing the whole “God works in mysterious ways” gambit.

I think the population of atheists who would admit they were wrong if there was truly hard evidence for a god is much bigger than you think.

193 wheat-doggha -- oo bird outside my window  Apr 26, 2014 9:09:10pm

re: #184 Ming

I’m more an apathist — I really don’t care if there is a God or not.

194 Mattand  Apr 26, 2014 9:13:02pm

re: #193 wheat-doggha — oo bird outside my window

I’m more an apathist — I really don’t care if there is a God or not.

At least here in the US, the amount of people who are trying to write laws on what they think (the usually Christian) God wants is plenty of reason to care.

195 wheat-doggha -- oo bird outside my window  Apr 26, 2014 9:14:40pm

re: #194 Mattand

Oh, I care if people want to abuse their belief in a deity. I’m just not going to go out of my way to profess belief in something I am pretty sure doesn’t exist.

196 NJDhockeyfan  Apr 26, 2014 9:18:41pm

I don’t know if anyone is watching the Minnesota/Colorado game but its been a great exciting hockey game and it’s going to overtime.

197 NJDhockeyfan  Apr 26, 2014 9:25:10pm
198 Gus  Apr 26, 2014 9:29:21pm

re: #196 NJDhockeyfan

I don’t know if anyone is watching the Minnesota/Colorado game but its been a great exciting hockey game and it’s going to overtime.

@9NEWSSports

199 Gus  Apr 26, 2014 9:35:02pm
200 Ming  Apr 26, 2014 9:42:48pm

re: #192 Mattand

Wow. I missed this earlier.

I’m sorry but the statement that atheists are the other side of the fundamentalist coin from the religious is a classic false balance, with a hint of straw man.

Could there be a god as described in the Bible, Koran, etc.? Sure. If you can prove it, I’ll haul my ass back to church tomorrow.

But that’s the rub: you can’t prove the existence of a being who, by its very nature, can defy all natural laws as we know them; or chooses to identify itself in the most oblique ways possible.

Shit, even Dawkins is on record as saying there’s a chance he might be wrong, and there is some sort of Big Dude pulling the strings. At some point, though, you’ve got to admit you have nothing. You can’t keep playing the whole “God works in mysterious ways” gambit.

I think the population of atheists who would admit they were wrong if there was truly hard evidence for a god is much bigger than you think.

I agree completely. I was trying to say the same thing, with my critique of agnosticism, that the “false equivalence” assumed by agnosticism (“Teach me both sides! Teach the controversy!”) is completely unwarranted, precisely like a false equivalence between astronomy and astrology.

I agree completely that quite a few atheists would be happy to admit they were wrong, if there was hard evidence for a God.

Interestingly, I’m confident that if there were hard evidence for a God, many people who currently believe in God would turn elsewhere, perhaps to a new “super-God”. They didn’t embrace the idea of “God” because of their inclination for rational, scientific inquiry! :) People like Neal DeGrasse Tyson would be exicited about God and want to learn as much as they can about Her or Him, but I don’t expect that many of today’s current “believers” would stick around.

Not that we’ll ever put that one to the test!

201 NJDhockeyfan  Apr 26, 2014 9:54:19pm
202 CuriousLurker  Apr 26, 2014 10:08:56pm

re: #200 Ming

Interestingly, I’m confident that if there were hard evidence for a God, many people who currently believe in God would turn elsewhere, perhaps to a new “super-God”. They didn’t embrace the idea of “God” because of their inclination for rational, scientific inquiry! :) People like Neal DeGrasse Tyson would be exicited about God and want to learn as much as they can about Her or Him, but I don’t expect that many of today’s current “believers” would stick around.

Wow, that’s beyond arrogant.

How do you know how “many people who currently believe in God” would react if hard evidence for a God were found? On what facts are you basing this conclusion that they’d create a new “super-God”? Why wouldn’t they be ecstatic at finally having been proven correct?

You seem to be conflating belief in God with a rejection of rational, scientific inquiry—why? How do you explain all the people who are believers and love science, some of whom are in fact scientists themselves?

How do you know why any given individual, apart from yourself, embraces anything? The answer is you don’t.

Logical #fail. Try again.

203 CuriousLurker  Apr 26, 2014 10:12:01pm

re: #108 Romantic Heretic

My Dad’s going to be dying soon.

I’m not sure how I feel about it. We’ve never been close and he didn’t really make my childhood a pleasant one. He’s more an acquaintance than a family member.

My Mom needs what support I can give though.

Sigh.

{{{Romantic Heretic}}}

204 goddamnedfrank  Apr 26, 2014 10:33:24pm

re: #202 CuriousLurker

Wow, that’s beyond arrogant.

How do you know how “many people who currently believe in God” would react if hard evidence for a God were found? On what facts are you basing this conclusion that they’d create a new “super-God”? Why wouldn’t they be ecstatic at finally having been proven correct?

Without touching on the rest of his thesis, no one God is likely to fulfill the myriad preconceptions held by all the world’s theists. Does He share their various bigotries or lack thereof? Does He care about humanity at all? Does He really care if people believe in Him? Is He a She?

This touches on one of my favorite books from the last few years, Sum: Forty Tales from the Afterlives. The author is a neurosurgeon who decided that the “idea space” of afterlife concepts was vastly huge compared to how much of it humans have actually explored in terms of religion. He also coined a new term, “possibilian” which kind of branches out from agnostic. The idea being that the possibilities are worth exploring in and of themselves at the very least as literature.

205 Ming  Apr 26, 2014 10:33:35pm

re: #202 CuriousLurker

…You seem to be conflating belief in God with a rejection of rational, scientific inquiry…

Well, yes, precisely. My assessment is that a belief in God, in the year 2014, often involves a rejection of rational, scientific inquiry.

(Of course, “often” isn’t “always”. Each person who believes in God is a unique human being. They may believe in God for many different reasons.)

Obviously we disagree about this. If you were asked, “Give me an indication that a person is inclined to rational, scientific inquiry,” you might say, “one indication is that they believe in God, maybe (for example) they believe that Mohammed went to heaven with Gabriel, or they believe that the universe is 6000 years old, or they believe that Jesus rose from the dead. Sounds like a scientist to me.”

206 goddamnedfrank  Apr 26, 2014 10:36:32pm

re: #205 Ming

Obviously we disagree about this. If you were asked, “Give me an indication that a person is inclined to rational, scientific inquiry,” you might say, “one indication is that they believe in God, maybe (for example) they believe that Mohammed went to heaven with Gabriel, or they believe that the universe is 6000 years old, or they believe that Jesus rose from the dead. Sounds like a scientist to me.”

I don’t think you know CuriousLurker at all if you think those are the kinds of things she might say.

207 Political Atheist  Apr 26, 2014 10:44:51pm

re: #205 Ming

Well, yes, precisely. My assessment is that a belief in God, in the year 2014, often involves a rejection of rational, scientific inquiry.

(Of course, “often” isn’t “always”. Each person who believes in God is a unique human being. They may believe in God for many different reasons.)

Edited—-
Can you tell me what scientific evidence excludes my belief in God without some conflict ?

208 Ming  Apr 26, 2014 10:45:04pm

re: #206 goddamnedfrank

I don’t think you know CuriousLurker at all if you think those are the kinds of things she might say.

I believe her reaction to my comment was that it as “beyond arrogant” (her words) to “be conflating belief in God with a rejection of rational, scientific inquiry” (her words).

I took her words to mean that she regards a belief in God as thoroughly compatible with rational, scientific inquiry. Then, all I did was re-state this position, “…or they believe that Jesus rose from the dead. Sounds like a scientist to me.”, in a way that I hoped would call attention to why I happen to disagree with it.

I’m sorry as I didn’t intend to be “beyond arrogant”. I did want to make my disagreement with Curious Lurker (on this very particular issue) clear.

209 CuriousLurker  Apr 26, 2014 10:45:35pm

re: #204 goddamnedfrank

Without touching on the rest of his thesis, no one God is likely to fulfill the myriad preconceptions held by the world’s theists. Does He share their various bigotries or not? Does He care about humanity at all? Does He really care if people believe in Him? Is He a She?

This touches on one of my favorite books from the last few years, Sum: Forty Tales from the Afterlives. The author is a neurosurgeon who decided that the “idea space” of afterlife concepts was vastly huge compared to how much of it humans have actually explored in terms of religion. He also coined a new term, “possibilian” which kind of branches out from agnostic. The idea being that the possibilities are worth exploring in and of themselves at the very least as literature.

Thank you for providing a coherent answer with actual examples of why you think (at least some) people might create a new “super-God”. That book looks like an interesting read, so I’m putting it on my Kindle wish list.

210 Political Atheist  Apr 26, 2014 10:51:54pm

re: #205 Ming

The fundamentalist views from religion can shine badly on more moderate beliefs. To believe on god is not to also endorse fundamentalism. Theists for example.

211 CuriousLurker  Apr 26, 2014 10:56:03pm

re: #205 Ming

Well, yes, precisely. My assessment is that a belief in God, in the year 2014, often involves a rejection of rational, scientific inquiry.

(Of course, “often” isn’t “always”. Each person who believes in God is a unique human being. They may believe in God for many different reasons.)

Obviously we disagree about this. If you were asked, “Give me an indication that a person is inclined to rational, scientific inquiry,” you might say, “one indication is that they believe in God, maybe (for example) they believe that Mohammed went to heaven with Gabriel, or they believe that the universe is 6000 years old, or they believe that Jesus rose from the dead. Sounds like a scientist to me.”

You seem to think believers 1.) believe everything in their respective holy books is the literal truth as opposed to allegory or symbolism, and/or 2.) that they’re incapable of distinguishing when they should rely on faith and when they should rely on science. IOW, you think we’re kind of gullible & stupid, unlike you clever, rational, scientific types who aren’t prone to such weaknesses because FACTS! Is that about right?

212 Ming  Apr 26, 2014 10:57:53pm

re: #207 Political Atheist

Can you tell me what science excludes my belief without some conflict ?

Honestly (and I know it’s late at night!) I’m not sure what you mean. (I’m really, honestly not sure I understand what you’re asking.) Are you asking: give me an example of an idea from science that opposes a religious belief, such that the same idea from science doesn’t have conflicts of its own?

If so, I would note that science is never 100% certain. We’re always dealing in probabilities. For example, “mainstream science” says that the Universe is about 13.8 billion years old, and that carbon dioxide in the atmosphere contributes to rising temperatures.

Mainstream science is NOT 100% certain about either of these things. It just is very, very likely at this point. It may be true that carbon dioxide in the atmosphere is NOT contributing to global warming. It just seems very unlikely at this point.

Again, sorry, as I’m not sure what you’re asking.

213 goddamnedfrank  Apr 26, 2014 10:59:19pm

re: #208 Ming

I believe her reaction to my comment was that it as “beyond arrogant” her words to “be conflating belief in God with a rejection of rational, scientific inquiry”.

Because it is.

I took this to mean that she regards a belief in God as thoroughly compatible with rational, scientific inquiry.

It very much can be.

Then, all I did was re-state this position, “…or they believe that Jesus rose from the dead. Sounds like a scientist to me.”, in a way that I hoped would call attention to why I happen to disagree with it.

You didn’t restate it, read it again, you pigeonholed her according to some bizarre preconception you have about what the average theological belief system looks like. I’m no expert on the Sufi experience or it’s focus on internal mysticism and knowledge, but I’m pretty sure you couldn’t have gotten the lady more wrong if you tried.

I’m sorry as I didn’t intend to be “beyond arrogant”. I did want to make my disagreement with Curious Lurker (on this very particular issue) clear.

Instead all you did what erect a caricature based on your own stereotype of what a believer in God holds true.

214 goddamnedfrank  Apr 26, 2014 11:06:37pm

re: #209 CuriousLurker

That book looks like an interesting read, so I’m putting it on my Kindle wish list.

The nearest book I can compare it to in terms of scope and form is Einstein’s Dreams, if you’ve ever read it. If not I highly recommend that too. They’re both quick reads, but beautifully written and engaging.

215 Ming  Apr 26, 2014 11:06:53pm

re: #211 CuriousLurker

…Is that about right?

No. Believe it or not, all I was trying to say was “My assessment is that a belief in God, in the year 2014, often involves a rejection of rational, scientific inquiry.”

I admit that’s a big generalization, hence I threw in the word “often”.

I do feel strongly that there’s truth to my statement, and you obviously disagree. I hope we can “agree to disagree”. Obviously, neither of us is going to prove or disprove the existence of God, at least not tonight.

(Looks like you and I can both be quite opinionated! I guess that’s just the way we both are.)

216 CuriousLurker  Apr 26, 2014 11:08:19pm

re: #214 goddamnedfrank

The nearest book I can compare it to in terms of scope and form is Einstein’s Dreams, if you’ve ever read it. If not I highly recommend that too. They’re both quick reads, but beautifully written and engaging.

I haven’t, but I will now. Thanks—it sounds delightful.

217 klys  Apr 26, 2014 11:18:14pm
218 CuriousLurker  Apr 26, 2014 11:40:18pm

re: #215 Ming

No. Believe it or not, all I was trying to say was “My assessment is that a belief in God, in the year 2014, often involves a rejection of rational, scientific inquiry.”

I admit that’s a big generalization, hence I threw in the word “often”.

“Often” is still a big generalization.

I do feel strongly that there’s truth to my statement, and you obviously disagree. I hope we can “agree to disagree”.

I disagree with your characterization of believers. It strikes me as anecdotal, not factual—something based solely on your own experiences and limited understanding. Science is based on empirical facts, something you’re touting but seem incapable of producing to back up your assertions.

Obviously, neither of us is going to prove or disprove the existence of God, at least not tonight.

LOL, seriously? I guess I must’ve missed something as I wasn’t aware that either one of us was trying to do that. Convincing an anonymous atheist on a blog of the existence of God—not just God, but God as we Muslims see him—is not something that I’d ever attempt. I don’t proselytize. Ever. I’m also I not the least bit interested in winning debates or “saving” anyone. //

(Looks like you and I can both be quite opinionated! I guess that’s just the way we both are.)

Yes, I suppose we can both be opinionated, but you’ll need to sharpen your critical thinking skills if you expect people here to consider your opinions worthwhile. Being opinionated isn’t laudable in and of itself, however having an opinion that people regard as well thought out and worth discussing can be valuable (to you and them). The former will result in people toying with you just for the hell of it—for practice, like a cat with a mouse—the latter will result in serious discussions where everyone involved might actually learn something valuable.

And with that I’m off to sleep. If you have anything else to add I’ll address it sometime tomorrow, if necessary.

219 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Apr 26, 2014 11:59:30pm

If you believe that literal interpretation of the Scriptures is the only way to go, then you must not only renounce modern science, you must renounce logic and reason as the Scriptures often contradict themselves.

Which pretty much makes it pointless to even try and discuss things with you.

220 NJDhockeyfan  Apr 27, 2014 12:01:34am
221 freetoken  Apr 27, 2014 12:50:06am
222 Dr Lizardo  Apr 27, 2014 1:20:51am

re: #159 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

There’s no conflict between the two, but Tojo was definitely Buddhist.

I would think it would be the Jodo Shinshu school of Buddhism, Pure Land Buddhism, which has some uncanny similarities with monotheistic religions. I know Jodo Shinshu is the largest sect of Buddhism in Japan; some 20% of the population identifies as that sect.

en.wikipedia.org

223 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Apr 27, 2014 1:22:57am

Japan had a long tradition of warrior monks.

Religion is religion, politics is politics. How people combine the two is a personal and subjective matter.

That is why our Founding Fathers had the wisdom to make sure that the two remained separate when it came to the Constitution.

224 Timothy Watson  Apr 27, 2014 1:23:14am

re: #191 Gus

[Embedded content]

That occurred only about 15 miles or so from where I live. :)

225 Dr Lizardo  Apr 27, 2014 2:30:51am

As some have noted, there was a recent raid by the Czech federal police on a mosque in Prague regarding a particular book that was being sold (or perhaps distributed) there.

The book in question was “The Fundamentals of Tawheed”, by Bilal Philips, who is well-known as a Salafist extremist.

Bilal Philips has been declared persona non grata in Germany for promoting extremism; he has also been banned from entering the UK, Kenya and Australia as well.

226 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Apr 27, 2014 3:04:59am

Salafisting, anyone?

227 Dr Lizardo  Apr 27, 2014 3:24:06am

re: #226 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

Salafisting, anyone?

Heh.

I look at this way; when someone’s been banned from entering the UK and Germany - both of whom are quite liberal in regard to matters of religion and freedom of speech - on the grounds of promoting extremism, that tells me that person’s message is more than a little over the top.

Ask Pam Geller or Robert Spencer, both of whom have also been banned from entering the UK.

228 Romantic Heretic  Apr 27, 2014 4:00:02am

re: #184 Ming

I’m nit picking, but I would like to mention the problem I have with agnosticism. Imagine if someone says, “I’m agnostic about Zeus. Maybe he lives on Mount Olympus, and maybe he doesn’t. I have equal respect for either position.”.

Or, same thing, “I’m agnostic about Argentinian astrology. Maybe it’s the key to understanding some phenomena, like why a person’s birthday determines his emotional disposition, and maybe it’s not. I have equal respect for either position.”.

The problem with that observation is that you are assuming I respect either side, which I do not.

My attitude is neither respect or disrespect. It’s indifference. The question of God’s existence; Allah to Zeus, take your pick; is unimportant and distracting in my opinion. It serves no purpose other than to keep humanity from dealing with important matters like climate degradation and corruption in positions of responsibility.

229 Romantic Heretic  Apr 27, 2014 4:02:39am

re: #192 Mattand

Wow. I missed this earlier.

I’m sorry but the statement that atheists are the other side of the fundamentalist coin from the religious is a classic false balance, with a hint of straw man.

Could there be a god as described in the Bible, Koran, etc.? Sure. If you can prove it, I’ll haul my ass back to church tomorrow.

But that’s the rub: you can’t prove the existence of a being who, by its very nature, can defy all natural laws as we know them; or chooses to identify itself in the most oblique ways possible.

Shit, even Dawkins is on record as saying there’s a chance he might be wrong, and there is some sort of Big Dude pulling the strings. At some point, though, you’ve got to admit you have nothing. You can’t keep playing the whole “God works in mysterious ways” gambit.

I think the population of atheists who would admit they were wrong if there was truly hard evidence for a god is much bigger than you think.

Um, didn’t you note that I said some atheists?

I guess not.

230 Lidane  Apr 27, 2014 4:13:03am

re: #15 jaunte

Kim Jong Un played pitcher, batter and outfield.

Pfft. Amateur. I know a guy who played every position at the same time:

Vimeo

231 Lidane  Apr 27, 2014 4:21:42am

re: #139 Pie-onist Overlord

Wow what a breathtakingly stupid meme.
They just don’t understand that there are LIBRULS and GOVERNMENT EMPLOYEES who enjoy hunting.

[Embedded content]

They also still don’t understand the difference between a bunch of hunters and neckbeards with rifles and AR-15s and the United States military.

This isn’t 1776 anymore. The playing field isn’t even close to being level.

232 Eventual Carrion  Apr 27, 2014 4:25:37am

re: #157 Feline Fearless Leader

Not to mention that deer hunting in PA is muzzle loader, shotgun, or otherwise non-military* rifle (bolt action or lever action - no semi-auto allowed.)

* - Not modern military. I hunted with a WW2-era 8mm Mauser that been modified for use as a hunting weapon.

I haven’t hunted in quite a while (PA native myself), but i seem to remember that you could only have 3 rounds in the weapon also.

233 Dark_Falcon  Apr 27, 2014 5:15:40am

re: #173 RealityBasedSteve

Caribou Barbie once again makes an ass of herself…

NDIANAPOLIS — Former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin fired up a crowd of thousands inside Lucas Oil Stadium Saturday night to kick off the National Rifle Association’s “Stand and Fight Rally,” saying Americans’ constitutional rights as envisioned by the founding fathers are under attack and policies like gun-free zones constitute “stupid on steroids.”

Read more: washingtontimes.com
Follow us: @washtimes on Twitter

She also derided those who she said place an emphasis on political correctness in handling the country’s adversaries “instead of putting the fear of God in our enemies.”
She said later in her address that if “I were in charge” — a line that drew applause from the crowd — “they would know that waterboarding is how we baptize terrorists.”

And of course the RWNJ’s are busy fapping themselves into a state of exhaustion over this.

RBS

234 Dark_Falcon  Apr 27, 2014 5:18:26am

re: #231 Lidane

They also still don’t understand the difference between a bunch of hunters and neckbeards with rifles and AR-15s and the United States military.

This isn’t 1776 anymore. The playing field isn’t even close to being level.

Most people don’t fully understand that. The use of support weapons within infantry units, unit organization and tactical training, and a proper logistics system are all things most people don’t understand.

235 William Barnett-Lewis  Apr 27, 2014 5:32:18am

re: #234 Dark_Falcon

Most people don’t fully understand that. The use of support weapons within infantry units, unit organization and tactical training, and a proper logistics system are all things most people don’t understand.

I find that even among those with some understanding of the military there is still a romantic infatuation with the idea of the “militia” and “insurgency”. I try to point out that only well supplied insurgences with high explosives (not bathtub explosives either) and other support weapons will win.

The Taliban was near to losing when they started getting Charlie Wilson’s Hind killers. The VC would have accomplished even less without the Ho Chi Mihn trail and it was still the NVA that won, not the VC. The US revolution would have failed without the French. And so on.

OTOH, we should probably be grateful that such fantasy is pervasive - these are the ones who will say they’ll fight to the last round of ammo if they “come to take his guns”. That they don’t understand how they are going to get even a single round off when the flash bang goes off in the middle of the night. By the time they figure what the hell is going on, a police officer has a boot to your neck and a H&K stuck in your neck.

The reality of the militia’s incompetence is what keeps the body count low.

236 Lidane  Apr 27, 2014 5:42:05am

re: #234 Dark_Falcon

Most people don’t fully understand that. The use of support weapons within infantry units, unit organization and tactical training, and a proper logistics system are all things most people don’t understand.

Logistics is the main thing. These dipshits, as evidenced by Caribou Barbie above, think that it’s just a matter of brandishing a few guns and making threats and the government will back down.

It never even dawns on them that all the war porn they fap to is based on the much greater technological advantage that the US government will have over them. Training, logistics, firepower, satellites, access to law enforcement databases, etc. It’s not even a contest.

237 Dark_Falcon  Apr 27, 2014 5:47:56am

re: #235 William Barnett-Lewis

I find that even among those with some understanding of the military there is still a romantic infatuation with the idea of the “militia” and “insurgency”. I try to point out that only well supplied insurgences with high explosives (not bathtub explosives either) and other support weapons will win.

The Taliban was near to losing when they started getting Charlie Wilson’s Hind killers. The VC would have accomplished even less without the Ho Chi Mihn trail and it was still the NVA that won, not the VC. The US revolution would have failed without the French. And so on.

OTOH, we should probably be grateful that such fantasy is pervasive - these are the ones who will say they’ll fight to the last round of ammo if they “come to take his guns”. That they don’t understand how they are going to get even a single round off when the flash bang goes off in the middle of the night. By the time they figure what the hell is going on, a police officer has a boot to your neck and a H&K stuck in your neck.

The reality of the militia’s incompetence is what keeps the body count low.

Three points:

1. The Taliban did not exist in the 1980’s. Some of the men who later joined that organization did fight the Soviets back then, but others who had been part of the Mujaheddin such as Ahmad Shah Massoud opposed the Taliban’s efforts to establish their tyranny over Afghanistan. Thus I would ask you to please use the term Mujaheddin to describe the the 1980’s Afghan fighters. To say the Red Army was fighting the Taliban is historically inaccurate.

238 William Barnett-Lewis  Apr 27, 2014 6:05:17am

The “students” or Talib were the core of the Mujaheddin. They were essentially one and the same with 90,000 Afghans trained by Pakistan’s ISI during the 1980’s. They only became known as a separate entity to the west after the fall of the Soviet puppet regime in 1992. So, I’d argue instead, DF, that it’s a distinction without a difference.

239 Dark_Falcon  Apr 27, 2014 6:12:46am

re: #235 William Barnett-Lewis

2. The outside support you mention leads to another point, that being the importance for insurgents of having ‘sanctuary’ areas, either inside the target country or in one of its neighbors. if an insurgency is to succeed, it must eventually either create or acquire such ‘safe base’ areas. Without them, or if they are lost, then the insurgency becomes vulnerable, as examples see the crippling of FARC in Columbia in the late 1990s - early 2000s, and the destruction of the Tamil Tigers in 2006-2009.

This is a point on which the hopes of many militia groups in the US founder. There is no way for such groups to carve out a ‘no-go zone’ within the US, and neither Canada nor Mexico would be inclined to offer such groups such an area. Whatever may be said about the morality of the US involvements in Vietnam and Iraq, in both cases the only safe areas insurgents found were on the other side of national borders. The US military was able to get anywhere it needed to go with the nations it was operating in. The same would be true within the US, and any fantasies to the contrary are just that.

240 William Barnett-Lewis  Apr 27, 2014 6:18:24am

re: #239 Dark_Falcon

Agreed.

241 William Barnett-Lewis  Apr 27, 2014 6:30:47am

Time to get ready for church. BBL.

242 Dark_Falcon  Apr 27, 2014 6:36:52am

re: #241 William Barnett-Lewis

Time to get ready for church. BBL.

I’ll save my 3rd point for later, then.

243 William Barnett-Lewis  Apr 27, 2014 6:38:32am

re: #242 Dark_Falcon

I’ll save my 3rd point for later, then.

Go ahead and post it. I’ve gotten… delayed… a little bit O_o.

244 Romantic Heretic  Apr 27, 2014 6:46:45am

re: #239 Dark_Falcon

As I’ve noted before that as a general rule insurgents only succeed if the people they are fighting against have a place to run to. Eventually, if the insurgents keep at it the occupiers will say, “Fuck it! This isn’t worth the blood or money.” and go home. See Vietnam, Afghanistan against both the Soviet Union and the U.S., and Iraq.

If the insurgents are fighting against the local authorities they usually lose as the local authorities have no place to run to. They win or they die. I know of only three places where insurgents won over the rulers and in each case the rulers were exceptionally incompetent. Those places were China, Cuba and Nicaragua.

Also overlooked by the wingnuts are the casualties suffered. It’s between ten and fifty people for every person serving the occupiers/ local authorities. Most of those are civilians caught in the crossfire.

The utter ignorance of the wingnuts when it comes to warfare is both horrifying and a little reassuring. The former emotion because they are too likely to start something. The latter because they will probably get their asses handed to them in jig time.

245 Dark_Falcon  Apr 27, 2014 6:48:43am

re: #243 William Barnett-Lewis

Go ahead and post it. I’ve gotten… delayed… a little bit O_o.

As you wish:

3. Don’t be too complacent about militia incompetence. While their bringing in sharpshooters of their own at the Bundy ranch was an escalation and, as Goddamnfrank makes the case, likely criminal, it did show at least some of those people had given thought to what would otherwise have been a key law enforcement advantage and thus were ready to substantially counter it.

Most militia-types are a bunch of foolish yahoos, but it only takes having a small number of actually competent men in the wrong place at the wrong time to have a raid turn very bloody.

I know you’ve thought about this yourself, William, but I’ve found to wise to provide such reminders to help the group as a whole avoid the Pitfall of Hubris.

246 Dark_Falcon  Apr 27, 2014 7:00:51am

re: #244 Romantic Heretic

That can work as a rule, but only if it excludes the British efforts at counter-insurgency, because the British were able to destroy insurgencies in Malaya, Kenya*, and Oman.

*: The mistakes made by the white settler government in Kenya (such as massively under-representing blacks in the colonial legislature while over-representing every other ethnic group (whites most of all of course, but Indians were also given seats in much proportional greater numbers than blacks, while Arabs were given a seat despite being only a tiny minority in Kenya)) trigger the insurgency there. Those who have pilloried Barack Obama and his father for “Kenyan Anti-Colonialism” should read more about what colonialism was actually doing in Kenya to trigger the reaction against it.

247 darthstar  Apr 27, 2014 7:29:30am

Mornin’ everyone. Primary season is apparently officially over, and now the great swing towards right of center, but not quite center, can officially begin. Having spent the winter lying to the Tea Party that they would repeal Obamacare(so they could survive the primary challenges they faced), the GOP is now starting to lie to the general public about wanting to participate in actual legislation.

248 Flounder  Apr 27, 2014 7:39:57am

re: #247 darthstar

I, as a conservative, welcome our next (fill in the blank) years of being in the minority.

249 Targetpractice  Apr 27, 2014 7:43:35am

re: #247 darthstar

Mornin’ everyone. Primary season is apparently officially over, and now the great swing towards right of center, but not quite center, can officially begin. Having spent the winter lying to the Tea Party that they would repeal Obamacare(so they could survive the primary challenges they faced), the GOP is now starting to lie to the general public about wanting to participate in actual legislation.

[Embedded content]

Yeah, how many times have we heard this promise?

250 GeneJockey  Apr 27, 2014 7:43:53am

re: #245 Dark_Falcon

The primary point being that an armed insurrection by these folks is almost certain to fail, but would seriously fuck things up for the rest of us.

As Auntie Entity Celtic Dragon and I were discussing the other day, for every, maybe, 100 armchair heroes there’s maybe one who will drive to NV to threaten to raise a ruckus, and for every 100 of those there’s probably a couple who are actually looking for an actual firefight.

Back in the early 1990s, the “Militia” movement seemed like a bunch of flabby old weekend warriors, but that school of thought spawned Timothy McVeigh.

251 Flounder  Apr 27, 2014 7:49:11am

Well, today is my five year sobriety anniversary. If anyone reading this struggles with dependence, it really felt like forever when I first quit drinking, now, I don’t know where the time went. It can be done.

252 Political Atheist  Apr 27, 2014 7:51:44am

re: #251 Flounder

Congratulations. That’s a hard road, you deserve a heartfelt pat on the back.

253 Decatur Deb  Apr 27, 2014 7:53:45am

re: #251 Flounder

Well, today is my five year sobriety anniversary. If anyone reading this struggles with dependence, it really felt like forever when I first quit drinking, now, I don’t know where the time went. It can be done.

Congrats. Assuming much of the damage has healed or scarred over by now.

254 darthstar  Apr 27, 2014 7:54:29am
255 Targetpractice  Apr 27, 2014 7:55:39am

Personally think it telling that most of these militia types, when they lay out their fantasy of how a “popular” insurgency would succeed in the US, include a step where the armed forces either join them or refuse to stop them. Even they recognize that, if they have to fight the combined might of the US military, they will fail and fail badly.

256 Flounder  Apr 27, 2014 7:57:14am

re: #253 Decatur Deb

I hope so, after 18 years of drinking a 12-pack a day, I had a fatty liver, HBP, and I’m borderline type-2 diabetic. It didn’t help I quit drinking and began eating ice cream, but I gave that up too. Doctor thinks if I get down to 250, I will be good, so that’s what I’m aiming for. I’m down 25 pounds so far…

257 kirkspencer  Apr 27, 2014 8:05:10am

re: #254 darthstar

[Embedded content]

That’s not stupid. It’s evil.

258 BongCrodny  Apr 27, 2014 8:05:47am

re: #254 darthstar

Sarah Palin - “Waterboarding is how we baptize terrorists”

So, since the Bundy Brigade was allegedly willing to use women as human shields, would they fall under the category of “terrorists,” Sarah?

I won’t hold my breath waiting for an answer.

259 darthstar  Apr 27, 2014 8:08:07am
260 Dark_Falcon  Apr 27, 2014 8:10:34am

re: #258 BongCrodny

So, since the Bundy Brigade was allegedly willing to use women as human shields, would they fall under the category of “terrorists,” Sarah?

I won’t hold my breath waiting for an answer.

Of course not. Princess Dumbass of the North Woods thinks Cliven Bundy is just the bee’s knees. Now if he were darker skinned and/or foreign, then he’d be a terrorist.

261 Dark_Falcon  Apr 27, 2014 8:14:08am

I also think Sarah Palin just handed Radical Islamist propagandists a sound byte that they’ll be using against the US for years. Talking about water-boarding as “baptizing” terrorists can be easily used as “PROOF THAT THE GREAT SATAN IS WAGING WAR ON ISLAM!!!11”.

262 darthstar  Apr 27, 2014 8:15:03am
263 darthstar  Apr 27, 2014 8:22:11am
264 Flounder  Apr 27, 2014 8:27:30am

Driver sues boy she hit and killed.
Arg.

265 Political Atheist  Apr 27, 2014 8:35:10am

re: #263 darthstar

Hmm, you can’t tell who is a Republican, Dem., or indy.

266 Dark_Falcon  Apr 27, 2014 8:35:37am

re: #264 Flounder

Driver sues boy she hit and killed.
Arg.

That right there is a textbook definition of chutzpah. The judge should reply to it: “This countersuit is dismissed with extreme prejudice, then defendant to pay for all court costs associated with. The court also also hereby orders that the defendant receive a boot to the head.”

Youtube Video

267 FemNaziBitch  Apr 27, 2014 8:35:55am

re: #39 freetoken

ah! It’s those pesky humans again (mostly men) who interpret god’s word and brainwash the rest of humanity.

268 FemNaziBitch  Apr 27, 2014 8:44:16am

re: #56 aagcobb

Eh, we would still have all the music art and culture.

Children need a sense of belonging to their family, community and the larger world. Religion (if done properly) does that. So does Nationalism.

As an only child, I know that my upbringing in the RC was essential to by sense of well being. I grew-up sharing the same rituals as my cousins in another state. I shared holidays with friends/families in the neighborhood of our Parish.

The closest I found as an adult was the Montessori Community I sought out for my son. As a parent, it gave me everything and more than I ever got from the RC Church.

My kid, OTOH, loves being RC. He isn’t Opus Dei or anything close to that, but his RC high school experience helped him immensely.

I leave the benefits or other of any religion up to the individual. You will always have those who go off the deep end and those who end up like most of us.

Agnostics who just don’t want to bother with organized religion and recognize the basic values we learned are universal and essential to civilized society and to a secure individual.

If I could wave a magic wand and make all the bad god-stuff people use to gain power and control over other’s I would.

Taking god out of the equation won’t change the fact that whacked out individuals will still seek and find tools to gain power and control over others.

269 FemNaziBitch  Apr 27, 2014 8:47:37am

re: #108 Romantic Heretic

My Dad’s going to be dying soon.

I’m not sure how I feel about it. We’ve never been close and he didn’t really make my childhood a pleasant one. He’s more an acquaintance than a family member.

My Mom needs what support I can give though.

Sigh.

{{{{Romantic Heretic}}}}}

270 FemNaziBitch  Apr 27, 2014 8:48:14am

Ah geez, I’m not reading the rest of the thread.

What’s up?

271 FemNaziBitch  Apr 27, 2014 8:49:39am

re: #256 Flounder

I hope so, after 18 years of drinking a 12-pack a day, I had a fatty liver, HBP, and I’m borderline type-2 diabetic. It didn’t help I quit drinking and began eating ice cream, but I gave that up too. Doctor thinks if I get down to 250, I will be good, so that’s what I’m aiming for. I’m down 25 pounds so far…

I have to laugh. Ice Cream in a common substitute drug for alcohol. I don’t know why, I never craved ice cream.

Something to do with the sugar content. …

272 FemNaziBitch  Apr 27, 2014 8:52:19am

re: #254 darthstar

[Embedded content]

Is that some new version of Baptism by Fire?

273 FemNaziBitch  Apr 27, 2014 8:53:55am
274 Eclectic Cyborg  Apr 27, 2014 8:55:27am

re: #273 FemNaziBitch

Or a Muslim, or a Hispanic…

275 FemNaziBitch  Apr 27, 2014 8:59:58am
276 FemNaziBitch  Apr 27, 2014 9:00:53am
277 FemNaziBitch  Apr 27, 2014 9:06:49am
278 FemNaziBitch  Apr 27, 2014 9:11:09am
279 Amory Blaine  Apr 27, 2014 9:14:25am

re: #217 klys

I recently bought some linen bath towels and I love them. They dry off lickety split, are almost as absorbent as terry cloth (I’m a hairy dude, no towel dries me off completely) and take up way less space than regular towels. Others in the house are yet unconvinced.

¡Viva la Revolución!

280 Amory Blaine  Apr 27, 2014 9:15:36am

re: #251 Flounder

That is so cool!! Congraulations!! Your discipline and willpower are commendable.

281 SteveMcGazi  Apr 27, 2014 9:18:07am

re: #164 goddamnedfrank

Maybe when you do you can look at this.

Since last time I remember seeing you you were ignorantly spouting off about how marijuana users subsidize murders. Murders that anybody with half a brain would properly ascribe to the environment prohibition creates.

That doesn’t really refute my claim. Criminals commit murders all the time to protect their operations, even if you think their ops shouldn’t be illegal. You’re welcome to deny any connection and huff and puff and feel superior but that doesn’t change the fact that traffickers supplied by money that pays for all kinds of drugs (marijuana included) commit murders.

282 William Barnett-Lewis  Apr 27, 2014 9:30:39am

re: #245 Dark_Falcon

As you wish:

3. Don’t be too complacent about militia incompetence. While their bringing in sharpshooters of their own at the Bundy ranch was an escalation and, as Goddamnfrank makes the case, likely criminal, it did show at least some of those people had given thought to what would otherwise have been a key law enforcement advantage and thus were ready to substantially counter it.

Most militia-types are a bunch of foolish yahoos, but it only takes having a small number of actually competent men in the wrong place at the wrong time to have a raid turn very bloody.

I know you’ve thought about this yourself, William, but I’ve found to wise to provide such reminders to help the group as a whole avoid the Pitfall of Hubris.

Pondered this point at church. While I think you have a valid point here, I think the example being used was a poor one. These people may have been ready for a “designated marksman” role, they were not snipers and were not deploying properly as snipers. Had any of them taken a shot they would not have survived the day. They were strutting around like bantam cocks and with all the “attention” given them on their over pass I have no doubt that the real deal would have known exactly where they were and would have been looking at them from .338 Lapua ranges (up to 1.5 miles) rather than that the short varmint round ranges of the 5.56 Nato.

Hence I do not consider them to be a good example of the real possibility of a tactically proficient paramilitary organisation.

283 Feline Fearless Leader  Apr 27, 2014 9:34:06am

re: #232 Eventual Carrion

I haven’t hunted in quite a while (PA native myself), but i seem to remember that you could only have 3 rounds in the weapon also.

Max 3 rounds in a shotgun for hunting. Don’t recall a limit for the rifles, and mine held 5 and was legal.

284 wrenchwench  Apr 27, 2014 11:21:45am

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