The Texas “Islamist Terror Enclave” That Wasn’t

Terrorism • Views: 29,253

This isn’t a new story, but since I commented on it extensively in one of the main threads, I figured I might as well turn it into a Page in case it ever comes up.

The “Investigation”

Back in mid-February right-wing activists had their fainting couches out over a Clarion Project article I first heard about via the Google alerts I have set up to look for exactly this type of clickbait yellow journalism that attempts to pass itself off as legitimate “news” based on serious investigation, Exclusive: Islamist Terror Enclave Discovered in Texas (WebCite link as I’d rather not give Clarion any direct traffic). As is typical, it was full of very ominous sounding “proof” and was accompanied by a photo of empty ammunition shells found “in the area” (not at all difficult in TX):

A Clarion Project investigation has discovered a jihadist enclave in Texas where a deadly shooting took place in 2002. Declassified FBI documents obtained by Clarion confirm the find and show the U.S. government’s concern about its links to terrorism. The investigation was completed with help from ACT! For America Houston.

The enclave belongs to the network of Muslims of the Americas, a radical group linked to a Pakistani militant group called Jamaat ul-Fuqra. Its members are devoted followers of Sheikh Mubarak Ali Gilani, an extremist cleric in Pakistan. […]

The Investigators/Players

When I see “Clarion Project investigation” and note that they say they were assisted by ACT! For America Houston, I immediately assume the story is false. Why? Well, if you’re not familiar with their past scare mongering, innuendo, and half-truths, you can start by reading this article from 2008 by Jeffrey Goldberg, The Jewish Extremists Behind “Obsession” (the film was distributed by Clarion).

Additionally, as the Southern Poverty Law Center points out in its 2011 Intelligence Report, ACT! For America’s founder, Brigitte Gabriel, “is closely aligned with the American political right on many fronts, has repeatedly made statements that conflate all Muslims with terrorists.”

Last but not least, Ryan Mauro, the Clarion Project’s “National Security Analyst” has a long & ugly history as well. You can read more about him in this article written by LGF’s owner, Charles Johnson: Ryan Mauro and the Christian Action Network. Mauro not only wrote the original article on February 18, he followed up with another on February 23, and yet another on February 25, in which he points out that Rep. Louie “Terror Babies” Gohmert (R-TX), Vice Chair of the Judiciary Subcommittee on Crime, Terrorism and Homeland Security, is totally on board with ramping up the fear: “This lackluster response to the threat of terrorist involvement is more than troubling—it’s appalling, but typical.”

Getty Image

The Dissemination of the Story

So back to the story of the “Islamist Terror Enclave”. Naturally, Fox News and all the right-wing and anti-Muslim blogs dutifully began hyperventilating over it. Here are the 88,900 results Google returns for a search of the article title. Never one to pass up an opportunity to spew her venom, the ever hateful Pamela Geller claimed via one of her WND articles that Texas police are doubling as their militia (link to Google search results). Yes, really. Police. In Texas. Let that sink in for a minute.

What Islamophobia? There’s no such thing, some will tell you.

So I waited.

The Debunking

Sure enough, about three weeks later, on March 10, KHOU in Houston published a short article debunking the whole thing after the police chief from nearby Freeport went out there to take a look:

Small Muslim community struggles with ‘terrorist’ rumors

“The best description would be just a trailer park in the country,” he said. […]

The view from the road, however, is underwhelming. Kids can be seen playing, chickens roam free, and nothing appears to be out of sorts.

Neighbors say the Muslims have lived there for years without any problems:

“They help us, we help them,” neighbor Charlotte Broussard said. “I just don’t understand why people want to start crap like that.”

The alleged FBI documents? According to Chief Pennington (emphasis mine):

“We’ve spoken with the FBI Joint Terrorism Task Force. There’s just nothing out there,” he said. “They tell us that there’s no credible information about that site in terrorism.”

Yet…

Still, officials in Sweeny are acknowledging the concern by providing links to the articles in question on the city’s website.

So, basically Clarion painted a picture that looked like this:

Getty Image

When the reality was actually closer to this:

Getty Image

A Few Other Thoughts

People wondered why I looked askance at that Honor Diaries film & its participants. The fact that the Clarion Project is one of the organizations heavily promoting it is why. In case that wasn’t clear enough, any person—Muslim or otherwise—who associates him/herself with the Clarion Project (or any of the other designated anti-Muslim hate groups) is immediately added to my “Not to Be Trusted” list.

Outlandish depictions of Muslims based on exaggerations, half-truths & innuendo that are designed to appeal to people’s fear & ignorance are a regular staple of the right wing, for example the 2010 TV ad below, which still sits proudly on Renee Ellmers’ (R-NC) YouTube channel. Apparently, she’s against the First Amendment where American Muslims are concerned. The bigotry is especially egregious since she’s Catholic, a group that was also once regarded with suspicion by fellow Americans who labeled them “papists” suspected of having dual loyalties.

Youtube Video

These people are the worst sort of political opportunists who waste precious law enforcement resources by sending them chasing after fake stories in a bid to get their names in the news. They do it by appealing to people’s worst fears instead of their better natures, all in the interests of getting elected to public office or selling their latest book or film. They’re pathetic, shameful, disgusting in the extreme.

Time to Grow Up

There are real threats out there, people who would very much like to do us—and by “us” I mean anyone who disagrees with them—real harm. Yes, some of those people are Muslim, and you know what? They’re as much a threat to law-abiding Muslims as they are to everyone else. Being an observant/Orthodox Muslim with a beard or hijab doesn’t automatically make someone a jihadi/terrorist any more than being an observant/Orthodox Jew with payot and a black hat makes someone a Kahanist, or being an evangelical Christian wearing a crucifix & carrying a Bible makes someone an abortion clinic bomber.

Grow up, America. Stop acting like a bunch of cliquish, backbiting adolescents and get on with the business of tending to our country and protecting all our citizens.

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437 comments

1 CriticalDragon1177  Apr 26, 2014 9:54:59pm

CuriousLurker

Another false alarm by the “counter Jihad.” Hopefully people will grow up soon.

2 Eclectic Cyborg  Apr 27, 2014 8:47:20am

Excellent page, really good work. Thanks, CL.

3 Eclectic Cyborg  Apr 27, 2014 8:57:49am

Also let me guess, the wingnuts are going to claim the terrorist group completely dismantled and hid everything after being “discovered”, then they got the hell out of dodge and managed to do all of this without one person knowing because of course they are “well funded”.

Hell, they’ll probably think Obama provided the vehicle that got them out.

4 FemNaziBitch  Apr 27, 2014 9:02:25am
Time to Grow Up
There are real threats out there, people who would very much like to do us—and by “us” I mean anyone who disagrees with them—real harm. Yes, some of those people are Muslim, and you know what? They’re as much a threat to law-abiding Muslims as they are to everyone else. Being an observant/Orthodox Muslim with a beard or hijab doesn’t automatically make someone a jihadi/terrorist any more than being an observant/Orthodox Jew with payot and a black hat makes someone a Kahanist, or being an evangelical Christian wearing a crucifix & carrying a Bible makes someone an abortion clinic bomber.

Grow up, America. Stop acting like a bunch of cliquish, backbiting adolescents and get on with the business of tending to our country and protecting all our citizens.

QFT

5 Iwouldprefernotto  Apr 27, 2014 9:02:45am

re: #1 CriticalDragon1177

CuriousLurker

Another false alarm by the “counter Jihad.” Hopefully people will grow up soon.

After they die of old age.

6 FemNaziBitch  Apr 27, 2014 9:11:49am
7 Dr Lizardo  Apr 27, 2014 9:11:51am

The Clarion Project has always struck me as being one of the main driving forces behind Islamophobia, Inc.

There’s a lot of money being thrown around in this particular industry, and it makes a lot of money as well. But groups or organizatons which profit from hatred, sowing distrust and disseminating bigotry are particularly loathsome in my book.

8 FemNaziBitch  Apr 27, 2014 9:13:26am

This has been rattling around in my brain, so I’ll post it again:
Youtube Video

Brave New World and all.

9 Ryan King  Apr 27, 2014 9:17:19am

Very nice post CL.

10 Dark_Falcon  Apr 27, 2014 9:17:44am

re: #6 FemNaziBitch

[Embedded content]

A deal helped by the contrast between the robust US response to Typhoon Haiyan as compared to China’s Michael Brown-grade response.

11 Dark_Falcon  Apr 27, 2014 9:23:51am

BBL

12 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Apr 27, 2014 9:32:56am

You fail to see that there are Higher Truths: that America is threatened by a secularist/Islamist sharia Jihad that is promoted and tolerated by a Kenyan Muslim Atheist Manchurian Candidate in the White House.

Anything that serves to counter their perfidious ends is fair game.

/

13 Political Atheist  Apr 27, 2014 9:41:30am

It must really suck to live in such an angry and yet fictional world. Minds as hostile as they are small. Unbending, non learning miserable people who seek to share the only thing they have in abundance. Hate.

14 Amory Blaine  Apr 27, 2014 9:44:23am

Well stated CL. That Sweeny officials are still promoting the false accusations is shameful.

15 FemNaziBitch  Apr 27, 2014 9:48:40am
16 sattv4u2  Apr 27, 2014 9:53:24am

re: #15 FemNaziBitch

Basic food groups
BEANS ,,,, hmm,, cocoa bean,,, CHECK
DIARY,,,,, yup,, can’t make good chocolate without good dairy ,,, CHECK
OILS ,,,,, lessee ,,, butter is made from oils,,,, butter is in chocolate,,, CHECK
MEAT ,,,, hmmm,,, cows graze and poop on the land. The land produces cocoa plants ,,,,, okay,,, CHECK !!!
VEGGIES,,,well,, again,, it IS a plant so,,,,, CHECK!!!

17 FemNaziBitch  Apr 27, 2014 9:53:57am

technically, it’s cocoa in the study, but hey …

18 wrenchwench  Apr 27, 2014 9:55:01am

Good work, CL.

This isn’t a new story, but since I commented on it extensively in one of the main threads today, I figured I might as well turn it into a Page in case it ever comes up.

Wouldn’t it be nice if we had a button to turn a comment into a Page? Especially if it could make a Page front page article like this!

Edited to fix that.

19 FemNaziBitch  Apr 27, 2014 9:55:38am

re: #18 wrenchwench

Good work, CL.

Wouldn’t it be nice if we had a button to turn a comment into a Page? Especially if it could make a Page like this!

a Magic Wand button?

20 sattv4u2  Apr 27, 2014 10:09:05am

re: #19 FemNaziBitch

a Magic Wand button?

If we had one of those I’d use it for much more important things ,,,,, like taking the slice out of my golf drive ,,,,, or still being able to live here out in the country but at the same time cutting the long quiet drive to/from work in half ,,,,,, or figuring out how to cut the tags off my mattresses without violating federal law!!!

///

21 darthstar  Apr 27, 2014 10:11:52am

Dream Machines show today on the coast…that means everybody with a classic car (67 Camaro, 65 Galaxy, 2009 PT Cruiser, etc.) will be parked on Highway 1 trying to get close to HMB airport. On my walk with the boys, had a guy in a WW2 helmet on his loud-piped, grey primer Harley come pop-pop-popping up to the light as we crossed. Blasting from a stereo on said rebel’s bike? The Bee Gees’ “More than a Woman”

And that, my friends, is how you rock it on the coast.

22 Charles Johnson  Apr 27, 2014 10:11:53am
23 darthstar  Apr 27, 2014 10:12:30am
24 Charles Johnson  Apr 27, 2014 10:15:55am

re: #18 wrenchwench

Good work, CL.

Wouldn’t it be nice if we had a button to turn a comment into a Page? Especially if it could make a Page like this!

I actually have this feature on the to-do list.

25 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Apr 27, 2014 10:15:59am

re: #22 Charles Johnson

Wow, the _entire_ right wing media is screaming that Donald Sterling is a DEMOCRAT! Impressive lockstep message discipline, as usual.

because his message is totally consistent with that of the Democratic Party…

26 darthstar  Apr 27, 2014 10:16:55am

re: #21 darthstar

Dream Machines show today on the coast…that means everybody with a classic car (67 Camaro, 65 Galaxy, 2009 PT Cruiser, etc.) will be parked on Highway 1 trying to get close to HMB airport. On my walk with the boys, had a guy in a WW2 helmet on his loud-piped, grey primer Harley come pop-pop-popping up to the light as we crossed. Blasting from a stereo on said rebel’s bike? The Bee Gees’ “More than a Woman”

And that, my friends, is how you rock it on the coast.

Said earworm (now you can know what it feels like to ride a Harley on the open road):

Youtube Video

27 sattv4u2  Apr 27, 2014 10:19:04am

re: #21 darthstar

Used to take mine (classic car) to the Myrtle Beach show every year, but I haven’t in several. The week they have it coincides with one of our busiest weeks at work (March Madness) so I can’t get the time off anymore

28 Charles Johnson  Apr 27, 2014 10:19:55am
29 Charles Johnson  Apr 27, 2014 10:22:08am
31 darthstar  Apr 27, 2014 10:25:32am

re: #27 sattv4u2

Used to take mine (classic car) to the Myrtle Beach show every year, but I haven’t in several. The week they have it coincides with one of our busiest weeks at work (March Madness) so I can’t get the time off anymore

You have a 2009 PT Cruiser? That’s so cool.

32 Feline Fearless Leader  Apr 27, 2014 10:26:49am

re: #29 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Just make sure you waterboard them first.
//

33 FemNaziBitch  Apr 27, 2014 10:27:30am

re: #32 Feline Fearless Leader

Just make sure you waterboard them first.
//

Isn’t it against Christian Sharia to eat baptized chicken?

34 wrenchwench  Apr 27, 2014 10:28:46am

re: #24 Charles Johnson

I actually have this feature on the to-do list.

Yes!!

35 Dr Lizardo  Apr 27, 2014 10:35:20am

re: #29 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

ZOMG! ITZ THE BUTTERBALL SEEKRIT HALAL FRIED CHIKINS THAT TURN YOU INTO A MUZLIM WHEN YOU EAT TEHM!11!!

36 darthstar  Apr 27, 2014 10:35:25am
37 Romantic Heretic  Apr 27, 2014 10:38:01am

re: #22 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Quite odd for people who so loudly claim their individualism so often, isn’t it?

38 Varek Raith  Apr 27, 2014 10:38:13am

Excellent article.

39 Varek Raith  Apr 27, 2014 10:39:38am

re: #22 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

At least we don’t support idiots like like unlike the right.

40 FemNaziBitch  Apr 27, 2014 10:40:28am

bbl

42 The Ghost of a Flea  Apr 27, 2014 10:45:29am

re: #13 Political Atheist

It must really suck to live in such an angry and yet fictional world. Minds as hostile as they are small. Unbending, non learning miserable people who seek to share the only thing they have in abundance. Hate.

Hate clarifies, It’s way out of self-doubt; you scrub all of those “normal” goals that complicate life, and focus on just throwing shit at the object of your hate. Smallness is a virtue to the hateful, particularly in the case like this, where there’s an imagined existential conflict.

I’m worried that they’re scared, hateful, and having a great time.

43 darthstar  Apr 27, 2014 10:47:28am

So I discovered a way to annoy the fuck out of all of my facebook friends. You know all those buzzfeed, quizmodo, quizzjizz, and whatever other marketing asshole company quiz machine generated sites everyone is linking to? What GOT character are you? What Middle Earth character are you? What city should you live in? What word describes you? What blah blah blah?

I have the same answer to every one of them. “I got margarine”…I don’t know why I chose margarine, but I’ve been margarine now for about three weeks and it has freed me from clicking those links most of the time.

44 bratwurst  Apr 27, 2014 10:49:09am

re: #41 Varek Raith

Speaking of defending that idiot;
Bill Kristol defends NBA owner: Don’t ‘go hysterical over two or three’ racist comments

The relationship between conservative commentators and racist remarks in the news is much like that between flies and shit.

45 freetoken  Apr 27, 2014 10:49:11am

re: #43 darthstar

Nothing quite like partially hydrogenated vegetable oil to keep the gnats away.

46 jaunte  Apr 27, 2014 10:50:25am

Today’s real victim is Todd Starnes.
twitter.com

47 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Apr 27, 2014 10:53:17am

re: #43 darthstar

So I discovered a way to annoy the fuck out of all of my facebook friends. You know all those buzzfeed, quizmodo, quizzjizz, and whatever other marketing asshole company quiz machine generated sites everyone is linking to? What GOT character are you? What Middle Earth character are you? What city should you live in? What word describes you? What blah blah blah?

I have the same answer to every one of them. “I got margarine”…I don’t know why I chose margarine, but I’ve been margarine now for about three weeks and it has freed me from clicking those links most of the time.

as a ruile, I do not repost, use apps or accept any game invites, nor do I “like” anything on FB, regardless of whether I like it in real life

48 Shiplord Kirel  Apr 27, 2014 10:54:13am

re: #22 Charles Johnson

I want them to tell us exactly where and when someone has proclaimed that there are no sleazeballs or hypocrites at all among the millions who can be affiliated with the Democratic Party in one way or another.
What is the thinking here? Are they hoping someone is stupid enough to generalize from this one racist dirtbag? That is exactly what the RW media are doing, and it says much more about their character and intelligence than it does about the opposition.

Btw, this is exactly the kind of moronic fallacy I’m mocking when I mention Alferd Packer the famous Republican cannibal.
As Happy Warrior reminded us a while back, serial killer Ted Bundy was also a Republican and (unlike Sterling) Bundy actually worked for the party.

49 Iwouldprefernotto  Apr 27, 2014 10:56:28am

re: #47 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

as a ruile, I do not repost, use apps or accept any game invites, nor do I “like” anything on FB, regardless of whether I like it in real life

Someone should do a “What type of racist are you?”

50 freetoken  Apr 27, 2014 10:56:34am
51 darthstar  Apr 27, 2014 10:57:13am

52 darthstar  Apr 27, 2014 11:01:56am
53 Killgore Trout  Apr 27, 2014 11:02:20am

re: #50 freetoken

Maybe on topic:

Muslim schools ‘plot’ teacher: ‘I am not an extremist’

I was just getting caught up on that. BBC has an interview with teachers. Allegations include teaching of creationism in science class and kids were told wives weren’t allowed to refuse sex. Some of the girls seemed troubled by it.
Teachers speak out amid ‘Trojan Horse’ probe

54 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Apr 27, 2014 11:06:41am

re: #51 darthstar

[Embedded image]

Remember that the USSR just fell apart in 1991. No attempt was made to deal with the issues of Russians living outside the Russian Federation or about dividing up the infrastructure and resources…it just fell into the hands of the greediest oligarch.

And it becomes clear what the long-term strategy was: had Russia negotiated the, they would’ve had to make a lot of concessions. Now they can simply dictate from a position of strength.

55 freetoken  Apr 27, 2014 11:06:54am

re: #53 Killgore Trout

So you accept the BBC’s dismissal of the letter as a “hoax”?

56 freetoken  Apr 27, 2014 11:09:50am

In that BBC interview, one of the points of contention was a lesson that stated that women are supposed to obey their men.

Hah! Over here, the GOP openly courts the religious right, who believe and preach the same thing.

57 Lidane  Apr 27, 2014 11:10:26am

re: #35 Dr Lizardo

ZOMG! ITZ THE BUTTERBALL SEEKRIT HALAL FRIED CHIKINS THAT TURN YOU INTO A MUZLIM WHEN YOU EAT TEHM!11!!

Worse, they’re being trained by the Butterball jihad turkeys:

58 Killgore Trout  Apr 27, 2014 11:11:04am

re: #50 freetoken

Maybe on topic:

Muslim schools ‘plot’ teacher: ‘I am not an extremist’

BTW, I think you pointed out last night that The Telegraph never mentions were they obtained the document authored by the Islamist school headmaster. It was allegedly published on the MBC website in 2007. I think this is it (second link down) google.com

Unfortunately my copy of Windows has misplaced Open Office so I haven’t been able to read the doc yet

59 Political Atheist  Apr 27, 2014 11:12:57am

Dunno how many of you are basketball fans, It’s never been a thing for me so I had zero idea how repeatedly the clippers owner has spoken from bigotry. My home town paper is all over it.

According to a statement released by the Clippers on Saturday afternoon, “Mr. Sterling is emphatic that what is reflected on that recording is not consistent with, nor does it reflect, his views, beliefs or feelings. It is the antithesis of who he is, what he believes, and how he has lived his life.”

Yet there are reams of documents indicating otherwise. Columns here and elsewhere have long pleaded for the NBA to take action on a man who, according to sworn testimony, once said of his apartment tenants, “… all of the blacks in this building, they smell, they’re not clean.” This same man also allegedly said, “I don’t like Mexican men because they smoke, drink and just hang around the house.”

latimes.com

60 Killgore Trout  Apr 27, 2014 11:13:27am

re: #55 freetoken

So you accept the BBC’s dismissal of the letter as a “hoax”?

I don’t know enough about the authentication of the letter, bbc doesn’t tell how they judged it was a hoax. It wouldn’t surprise me, we might have to wait a week or two and see if the government report has anything on that.

61 Varek Raith  Apr 27, 2014 11:13:51am

re: #59 Political Atheist

Sounds like are real nice man.
/

62 ObserverArt  Apr 27, 2014 11:14:23am

re: #41 Varek Raith

Speaking of defending that idiot;
Bill Kristol defends NBA owner: Don’t ‘go hysterical over two or three’ racist comments

Oh gee, look at that. Bill Kristol is out of step with America, politics, sports, race relations and just about everyone in the world.

Again.

63 Varek Raith  Apr 27, 2014 11:15:30am

re: #62 ObserverArt

Oh gee, look at that. Bill Kristol is out of step with America, politics, sports, race relations and just about everyone in the world.

Again.

Has he ever been right about anything ever???
Sheesh.

64 freetoken  Apr 27, 2014 11:15:40am

re: #58 Killgore Trout

Here, I turned it into a jpeg for you:

65 freetoken  Apr 27, 2014 11:16:26am

What I love about OSX - it has more magickal tools stuck away here and there than most people realize.

66 Killgore Trout  Apr 27, 2014 11:17:58am

re: #64 freetoken

Here, I turned it into a jpeg for you:

[Embedded image]

That’s it? ok, that doesn’t look like a 72 page document. My bad

67 Justanotherhuman  Apr 27, 2014 11:18:18am

Wonderful post, Curious! I’m in total agreement with everything you said. I have only seen one Muslim that I could recognize by her hijab in this little conservative hick crossroads. It just doesn’t ever occur to me to ask about anyone’s religion, though, unless they volunteer the info, since I’m not interested in it myself, and it’s no indicator most of the time about how they think generally.

Meanwhile, my family and I are beginning to heal from the initial shock we suffered last week. Life does go on, and there are practical matters we must deal with every day, kids, work (my grandson missed an entire week and my granddaughter’s business also suffered), but we’ve pulled together to help one another.

We truly appreciate all the condolences people have expressed. Thanks to all of you for your kind thoughts over the past week. : )

68 freetoken  Apr 27, 2014 11:19:11am

re: #66 Killgore Trout

Yup, it’s just a one page extract.

I looked at the MBS website already looking for the alleged document - couldn’t find it.

69 wrenchwench  Apr 27, 2014 11:19:17am

re: #67 Justanotherhuman

{{{JAH}}}

Good to see you.

70 Charles Johnson  Apr 27, 2014 11:21:11am

This guy is a real piece of work.

More Good Times With Donald Sterling

This is from the sports site The Classical, which in term got the docs from The Smoking Gun. The context is that Stirling is suing a former mistress to get back the house he gave her. But here in the context of being asked in a deposition whether handwriting is his handwriting, he sort of wanders off topic (the lawyer’s response is priceless) …

71 Justanotherhuman  Apr 27, 2014 11:21:32am

re: #69 wrenchwench

{{{JAH}}}

Good to see you.

Good to see “everyone” here, also. : ) We’re taking the afternoon off here, and I’m trying to get my g-grandson down for a nap which I may indulge in myself.

72 ObserverArt  Apr 27, 2014 11:21:41am

re: #67 Justanotherhuman

Wonderful post, Curious! I’m in total agreement with everything you said. I have only seen one Muslim that I could recognize by her hijab in this little conservative hick crossroads. It just doesn’t ever occur to me to ask about anyone’s religion, though, unless they volunteer the info, since I’m not interested in it myself, and it’s no indicator most of the time about how they think generally.

Meanwhile, my family and I are beginning to heal from the initial shock we suffered last week. Life does go on, and there are practical matters we must deal with every day, kids, work (my grandson missed an entire week and my granddaughter’s business also suffered), but we’ve pulled together to help one another.

We truly appreciate all the condolences people have expressed. Thanks to all of you for your kind thoughts over the past week. : )

Nice to see you around.

73 jaunte  Apr 27, 2014 11:22:15am

re: #70 Charles Johnson

Maybe he and Dick Morris would get along.

74 freetoken  Apr 27, 2014 11:23:28am

re: #70 Charles Johnson

That sounds like a comedy skit.

75 freetoken  Apr 27, 2014 11:25:08am

Speaking of OSX, I finally decided to upgrade… to 10.6.

I’ll never be accused of being an early adopter.

76 Lidane  Apr 27, 2014 11:25:50am
77 ObserverArt  Apr 27, 2014 11:27:02am

re: #70 Charles Johnson

This guy is a real piece of work.

More Good Times With Donald Sterling

[Embedded image]

Looks like he is the candidate that will allow the media to extract itself from Cliven Bundy. Then once the media move on, the militia types might take off.

The BLM can go back to figuring out how ol’ Bundy can be dealt with. In a few weeks I expect to hear/read that Clive came up missing one day when he and his one son went out to check on some cattle. His family will find him at the local county jail. They can bail him out for 2 mil and await the trial, or just pay the 1 mil and move on.

78 RealityBasedSteve  Apr 27, 2014 11:27:56am

re: #70 Charles Johnson

Court is recessed for 10 minutes and a moist towelette.

RBS

79 Justanotherhuman  Apr 27, 2014 11:28:51am

Later he similarly wanders off topic about how a woman like the defendant in the case can use sex-magic-powers to take control of a man’s mind even if she’s “a total freak and a piece of trash.”

Wow, as a woman, I did not know all that. : )

Using a bit of that fiction that women are nothing more than sirens, ready to lure you to your death by sex?

80 Shiplord Kirel  Apr 27, 2014 11:29:43am

re: #70 Charles Johnson

This guy is a real piece of work.

More Good Times With Donald Sterling

[Embedded image]

Sheesh! Sterling is EIGHTY years old (birthday was yesterday). He was 70 at the time of the quoted deposition. The guy is a stereotyped dirty old man.

81 jaunte  Apr 27, 2014 11:30:30am

re: #80 Shiplord Kirel

Walking proof that being a billionaire can retard emotional development.

82 CuriousLurker  Apr 27, 2014 11:33:01am

re: #67 Justanotherhuman

It’s good to have you back. {{{JAH}}}

83 Varek Raith  Apr 27, 2014 11:35:11am

re: #82 CuriousLurker

It’s good to have you back. {{{JAH}}}

Seconded.

84 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Apr 27, 2014 11:35:33am

We hold sports up as the embodiment of what is near and dear to us as Americans: the fair play, the striving for excellence, the spirit of competition, the dream of excelling and becoming a star and millionaire.

And we use that as an excuse for allowing college athletes to work as the unpaid minor leagues for the NFL and NBA…most of whom do not get to share in the dreams and the riches, just the injuries.

But when we strip away the veneer, we see the sexism, homophobia, racism, disregard for athletes’ well-being (beyond their temporary usefulness to the team) and the cynical, blatant greed that drives professional sports

85 CuriousLurker  Apr 27, 2014 11:35:41am

Charles, thanks for the Page promotion. I was totally not expecting it, especially since it’s not breaking news.

Everyone else, thanks for the nice comments.

I have to write a document for work today, so I can’t really come out and play till it’s done. Ugh. *grimace*

86 Shiplord Kirel  Apr 27, 2014 11:38:48am

re: #81 jaunte

Walking proof that being a billionaire can retard emotional development.

Too true. Great wealth can isolate people from reality. When this continues for years or decades, the result can be bizarre or, as with Sterling, completely disgusting. He probably has no idea how real people see him.

As a senior (ie old fart) myself, I am a great believer in the axiom that there is no fool like an old fool. It is entirely just and appropriate to be harsh in our judgment of old people who make fools of themselves. No matter what they were like when they were young, they have had ample opportunity to learn wisdom and character during the intervening decades. Many have chosen not to. These are often the same idiots who moan and whine that the young do not respect their elders.

87 Justanotherhuman  Apr 27, 2014 11:39:27am

Jordan ‘disgusted’ by alleged Sterling comments

bigstory.ap.org

“Jordan, now the owner of the Charlotte Bobcats, released a statement Sunday addressing the matter. He said that as an owner, “I’m completely disgusted that a fellow team owner could hold such sickening and offensive views.”

(snip)

“Jordan said he is confident that NBA Commissioner Adam Silver will investigate the matter fully and “take appropriate action quickly.”

“There is no room in the NBA — or anywhere else — for the kind of racism and hatred that Mr. Sterling allegedly expressed,” Jordan said. “I am appalled that this type of ignorance still exists within our country and at the highest levels of our sport. In a league where the majority of players are African-American, we cannot and must not tolerate discrimination at any level.”

88 The War TARDIS  Apr 27, 2014 11:41:48am

BRB, head going kaboom.

Duke president says removing toxic ash would cost $10 billion and take decades which is “too much”

In a galling an arrogant presentation Duke Energy president Paul Newton told North Carolina lawmakers that “removing all of the company’s coal ash away from the state’s rivers and lakes would take decades and cost up to $10 billion,” nearly all of which would be paid for by electricity customers. Duke Energy to lawmakers: Moving toxic coal ash costs too much

This is why utilities should be state-owned.

89 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Apr 27, 2014 11:43:09am

re: #88 The War TARDIS

and how much profit did the coal companies cart away during that period?

90 Justanotherhuman  Apr 27, 2014 11:44:04am

Here’s another big shot who thinks he can treat women like shit. And maybe even get away with it.

Exclusive: CEO Gurbaksh Chahal Fired by RadiumOne Board

recode.net

“The vehement defense by Chahal was posted this morning on his web site, in which he denied the disturbing charges that have swirled around him that has resulted in a major public debate over his behavior and how a company should deal with it.

“In the adamant and sometimes bizarre defense of himself, his post also blamed the police, bloggers and pretty much everyone else. Not so much himself and Chahal also essentially called his girlfriend a prostitute in the post.

“Sources with knowledge of the situation said that this reason the board decision took so long is that it is legally complex, due to Chahal’s massive stake in the company that gives him a large amount of control over RadiumOne.”

91 Dr. Matt  Apr 27, 2014 11:45:14am

So, the internets are ‘splaining that Donald Sterling is librul democrat. True?

92 The War TARDIS  Apr 27, 2014 11:46:51am

re: #88 The War TARDIS

No idea, I just know my head is doing this.

Youtube Video

93 ObserverArt  Apr 27, 2014 11:47:51am

re: #91 Dr. Matt

So, the internets are ‘splaining that Donald Sterling is librul democrat. True?

Probably more a political opportunist.

/

94 Shiplord Kirel  Apr 27, 2014 11:49:54am

re: #90 Justanotherhuman

Here’s another big shot who thinks he can treat women like shit. And maybe even get away with it.

Exclusive: CEO Gurbaksh Chahal Fired by RadiumOne Board

recode.net

“The vehement defense by Chahal was posted this morning on his web site, in which he denied the disturbing charges that have swirled around him that has resulted in a major public debate over his behavior and how a company should deal with it.

“In the adamant and sometimes bizarre defense of himself, his post also blamed the police, bloggers and pretty much everyone else. Not so much himself and Chahal also essentially called his girlfriend a prostitute in the post.

“Sources with knowledge of the situation said that this reason the board decision took so long is that it is legally complex, due to Chahal’s massive stake in the company that gives him a large amount of control over RadiumOne.”

Too bad we can’t create a mob of Bolsheviks or French sans-culottes that we could release when needed and rein in once the immediate problem was solved.

95 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Apr 27, 2014 11:51:58am

re: #91 Dr. Matt

So, the internets are ‘splaining that Donald Sterling is librul democrat. True?

Because liberal networks have loudly and repeatedly praised him as a True American Patriot and he also has a major voice in Democratic Party policy, right?

96 Justanotherhuman  Apr 27, 2014 11:53:29am

If people wouldn’t get injured and killed in the process, I’d say let the tornado just sweep those states away…

Tornado watch issued for portions of Arkansas, Oklahoma, Louisiana and Texas until 9 pm CT - via @stormchaser4850
read more on noaa.gov

97 Dr. Matt  Apr 27, 2014 11:53:46am

re: #95 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

Because liberal networks have loudly and repeatedly praised him as a True American Patriot and he also has a major voice in Democratic Party policy, right?

Apparently he donated $6,000 to Democrats 20 years ago. basketball.realgm.com

Yeah, real hard line lefty.

98 Backwoods_Sleuth  Apr 27, 2014 11:57:02am

re: #96 Justanotherhuman

It’s just getting started. This is earlier this afternoon:

99 Backwoods_Sleuth  Apr 27, 2014 12:03:19pm
100 Backwoods_Sleuth  Apr 27, 2014 12:06:46pm

Although there was a tornadic cell in/near Odessa, MO, photos so far look like straight wind damage.

101 Political Atheist  Apr 27, 2014 12:15:49pm

Whoa. Transferring the video files from a seminar that I ran yesterday. Four hour event came out to about 80 gig what with two 7D’s, and two GoPros. At first glance it’s a little overwhelming. Start with one step and all that. The enthusiasm of the GIA students was great to see.

I think we have their attention-

102 Pie-onist Overlord  Apr 27, 2014 12:17:10pm

My son just drove in from Toronto with 6 of his kids. I guess to give his wife a break for the day. :)

I just sat them down in front of the teevee (which they don’t watch at home). No Detroit Tigers game on today so they’re watching “Finding Nemo” on Blueray.

103 bratwurst  Apr 27, 2014 12:25:31pm

Seems to be the case!

104 Pie-onist Overlord  Apr 27, 2014 12:25:44pm

This anti-choicer movie will never get made. The rubes has been fleeced, that’s all this was about.

105 makeitstop  Apr 27, 2014 12:32:57pm

Funniest Facebook comment of the day (so far):

“Since Donald Sterling will not be able to attend today’s Clippers game, he will give his courtside tickets to Cliven Bundy.”

106 Pie-onist Overlord  Apr 27, 2014 12:36:17pm
107 wrenchwench  Apr 27, 2014 12:39:38pm
108 Lidane  Apr 27, 2014 12:40:49pm

Truth:

109 Varek Raith  Apr 27, 2014 12:42:37pm

re: #108 Lidane

Truth:

[Embedded content]

I’ve played that ‘game’. It’s worse than you can possibly imagine.
I would’ve hired NASA to send them to the sun.

110 Lidane  Apr 27, 2014 12:46:03pm
111 Lidane  Apr 27, 2014 12:47:16pm

Inquiring minds want to know:

112 Backwoods_Sleuth  Apr 27, 2014 12:49:33pm

re: #106 Pie-onist Overlord

[Embedded content]

The Constitution of the government he doesn’t recognize.
brilliant.

113 Amory Blaine  Apr 27, 2014 12:55:46pm

Holy shit there’s a new button.

114 Lidane  Apr 27, 2014 1:00:33pm

Youtube Video

Heh.

115 Charles Johnson  Apr 27, 2014 1:01:30pm

Yes, it’s true - you can now turn your comments into LGF Pages. (The new button shows up only on your own comments.)

116 Feline Fearless Leader  Apr 27, 2014 1:03:41pm

re: #115 Charles Johnson

Yes, it’s true - you can now turn your comments into LGF Pages. (The new button shows up only on your own comments.)

Is it a toggle-able capability so that it can be disabled for those who abuse it?

117 Romantic Heretic  Apr 27, 2014 1:06:16pm

re: #88 The War TARDIS

BRB, head going kaboom.

Duke president says removing toxic ash would cost $10 billion and take decades which is “too much”

This is why utilities should be state-owned.

Speaking to the President of Duke Energy.

Ahem.

You slimy, irresponsible turd. What are you? Four? Adults clean up their messes!

Asshole.

118 ObserverArt  Apr 27, 2014 1:08:49pm

re: #117 Romantic Heretic

Speaking to the President of Duke Energy.

Ahem.

You slimy, irresponsible turd. What are you? Four? Adults clean up their messes!

Asshole.

I guess they are makers. Not takers.

/

119 Feline Fearless Leader  Apr 27, 2014 1:08:50pm

re: #117 Romantic Heretic

Speaking to the President of Duke Energy.

Ahem.

You slimy, irresponsible turd. What are you? Four? Adults clean up their messes!

Asshole.

Or course he has to fight this. Otherwise coal wouldn’t be such a cheap power source compared to the economic substitutes.
//

120 aagcobb  Apr 27, 2014 1:09:22pm

re: #117 Romantic Heretic

Speaking to the President of Duke Energy.

Ahem.

You slimy, irresponsible turd. What are you? Four? Adults clean up their messes!

Asshole.

I assume that NC GOP lawmakers apologized to him for having the temerity to even bring the issue up for discussion, and thanked him profusely for creating jobs.

121 jaunte  Apr 27, 2014 1:11:17pm

re: #106 Pie-onist Overlord

Oh look, George Washington, the same man who put down the Whiskey Rebellion.

122 Romantic Heretic  Apr 27, 2014 1:11:35pm

re: #120 aagcobb

I assume that NC GOP lawmakers apologized to him for having the temerity to even bring the issue up for discussion, and thanked him profusely for creating jobs.

Too God damn likely. Grrrr!

I think I’ll go play XCOM or Borderlands now. I’ll imagine these people on the receiving end every time I fire a weapon.

I hope I find a corrosive weapon. A bubbling puddle of goo would be an appropriate fate for them.

123 ObserverArt  Apr 27, 2014 1:12:30pm

re: #120 aagcobb

I assume that NC GOP lawmakers apologized to him for having the temerity to even bring the issue up for discussion, and thanked him profusely for creating jobs.

Well hell, jus’ think of all them jobs would be a created cleaning all that stuff up. And all that Duke energy money floatin’ in the state e-conomy. WhooooEeeee.

And, it might help to restore the land, which could have endless benefits in the future.

124 blueraven  Apr 27, 2014 1:13:25pm

re: #115 Charles Johnson

Yes, it’s true - you can now turn your comments into LGF Pages. (The new button shows up only on your own comments.)

Very cool feature!

125 Skip Intro  Apr 27, 2014 1:13:31pm

re: #88 The War TARDIS

BRB, head going kaboom.

Duke president says removing toxic ash would cost $10 billion and take decades which is “too much”

This is why utilities should be state-owned.

You can do these things when you own the governor and most of the legislature.

littlegreenfootballs.com

126 Amory Blaine  Apr 27, 2014 1:14:25pm

re: #113 Amory Blaine

Holy shit there’s a new button.

A less than eloquent response to a very useful new feature. Thanks Charles!

127 Stanley Sea  Apr 27, 2014 1:14:31pm
128 Lidane  Apr 27, 2014 1:14:41pm

re: #121 jaunte

Oh look, George Washington, the same man who put down the Whiskey Rebellion.

Radical gubmint response! There are other ways to collect! Eleventy!

129 jaunte  Apr 27, 2014 1:17:30pm

re: #128 Lidane

Latest scary rumor circulating on the bundyranch grapevine:

“Stunning Report ~> Holder Approved Drone Strikes on Bundy Ranch”

130 Political Atheist  Apr 27, 2014 1:17:56pm

re: #115 Charles Johnson

Yes, it’s true - you can now turn your comments into LGF Pages. (The new button shows up only on your own comments.)

That’s pretty cool. Obviously for the meatier comments or a worthwhile link. Big breaking news for example. Increases the speed of news.

131 Lidane  Apr 27, 2014 1:18:45pm

re: #129 jaunte

Latest scary rumor circulating on the bundyranch grapevine:

“Stunning Report ~> Holder Approved Drone Strikes on Bundy Ranch”

Which is hilarious, considering these same Bundy Ranch yahoos would be calling for drone strikes if Bundy was anything other than a white guy.

132 Political Atheist  Apr 27, 2014 1:19:12pm

re: #115 Charles Johnson

Yes, it’s true - you can now turn your comments into LGF Pages. (The new button shows up only on your own comments.)

If a person Pages a comment after it has reply comments do they carry over?

133 jaunte  Apr 27, 2014 1:20:07pm

re: #131 Lidane

Holder is craftily withholding the drones in favor of turning up the heat with his weather weapon.

134 Lidane  Apr 27, 2014 1:21:40pm
135 freetoken  Apr 27, 2014 1:22:13pm

re: #115 Charles Johnson

Yes, it’s true - you can now turn your comments into LGF Pages. (The new button shows up only on your own comments.)

Does this work in Spy mode?

136 freetoken  Apr 27, 2014 1:24:11pm

Cleaning up my files before I start on the upgrade journey (which could easily take 24 hours) - amazing how much stuff I have accumulated on the Mac, and even on the desktop, over time.

A digital pack rat, I am.

137 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Apr 27, 2014 1:24:19pm

re: #134 Lidane

Weirdly, at one point he says “You think I’m racist.”

How does he not think he’s racist?

138 wrenchwench  Apr 27, 2014 1:24:31pm

re: #115 Charles Johnson

Yes, it’s true - you can now turn your comments into LGF Pages. (The new button shows up only on your own comments.)

Wow. (I just want to see the button.)

139 wrenchwench  Apr 27, 2014 1:25:46pm

re: #138 wrenchwench

Wow. (I just want to see the button.)

Looks much better after refreshing the page.

140 klys  Apr 27, 2014 1:25:49pm

Man, I gotta say thanks to EPR for that chemistry blog.

I am dying over this:

When you read through both papers, you find that the group was lucky to get whatever data they could - the X-ray crystal structure, for example, must have come as a huge relief, because it meant that they didn’t have to ever see a crystal again. The compound exploded in solution, it exploded on any attempts to touch or move the solid, and (most interestingly) it exploded when they were trying to get an infrared spectrum of it. The papers mention several detonations inside the Raman spectrometer as soon as the laser source was turned on, which must have helped the time pass more quickly. This shows a really commendable level of persistence, when you think about it - I don’t know about you, but one exploding spectrometer is generally enough to make recognize a motion to adjourn for the day. But these folks are a different breed. They ended up having to use a much weaker light source, and consequently got a rather ugly Raman spectrum even after a lot of scanning, but if you think you can get better data, then step right up.

The art of understatement is a delicate one, wielded with much precision.

141 klys  Apr 27, 2014 1:27:13pm

re: #137 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

Weirdly, at one point he says “You think I’m racist.”

How does he not think he’s racist?

Apparently because he provides food, clothing, and housing to black employees.

////

He actually pretty much says something like that. Not touching this with a ten foot pole.

142 Charles Johnson  Apr 27, 2014 1:29:24pm

re: #132 Political Atheist

If a person Pages a comment after it has reply comments do they carry over?

No, it basically starts a new thread.

143 Charles Johnson  Apr 27, 2014 1:30:15pm

re: #135 freetoken

Does this work in Spy mode?

Not yet.

144 Pie-onist Overlord  Apr 27, 2014 1:32:25pm

re: #137 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

Weirdly, at one point he says “You think I’m racist.”

How does he not think he’s racist?

For the same reason Cliven Bundy thinks he’s not racist, and Mona Holland thinks she’s not anti-Semitic.

HURR HURR I HAS SOME BLAH FRIENDS THAT MAKES ME NOT A RACIST!!!!!!!
HURR HURR I HAS SOME JUICE FRIENDS THAT MAKES ME NOT A ANTI-SEMITE!!!!!!!

145 CuriousLurker  Apr 27, 2014 1:43:58pm

Drive-by: Looks like the wingnuts across the pond are feeling as emboldened as ours. Ugh.

UKIP candidate William Henwood defends Lenny Henry tweet

146 ObserverArt  Apr 27, 2014 1:45:53pm

ESPN played some of that tape earlier today. It was sick. A whining old rich codger pissed off because his 40+ year younger girlfriend couldn’t understand why he wants her to be what he wants.

147 Backwoods_Sleuth  Apr 27, 2014 1:51:36pm

O/T but my neighbor just went mushroom hunting on my farm and stopped by to share the bounty.
I can now say that Spring has officially arrived in the holler.

Morels, it’s what’s for supper tonight!

148 Charles Johnson  Apr 27, 2014 1:59:31pm

It was kind of hard to come up with an icon for the “comment to Page” feature - but I think this one looks pretty good for a 16x16 graphic.

149 wrenchwench  Apr 27, 2014 1:59:56pm

Later, lizards.

150 jaunte  Apr 27, 2014 2:02:23pm
151 theheat  Apr 27, 2014 2:04:47pm
this type of clickbait yellow journalism

This might be my new favorite phrase. Good article, CL.

152 Charles Johnson  Apr 27, 2014 2:07:21pm

153 Eclectic Cyborg  Apr 27, 2014 2:07:47pm

re: #24 Charles Johnson

I actually have this feature on the to-do list.

And THAT’s why this is the one Blog that rules them all.

Charles, you’re a treasure of the internet.

154 CuriousLurker  Apr 27, 2014 2:15:31pm

Oh look, a new name to add to my list of scumbags jumping on the Islamophobia Factory™ gravy train—Joy Brighton. She has a book out and guess who’s pimping it? You get 3 guesses, the first 2 don’t count. Ready? Surprise!!

An Islamophobic framing guide—otherwise known as “precise language” in wingnut parlance—from the “Take Action” section of the book’s website:

Islamophobic framing guide

New terms coming to you soon via Fox News and wingnut blogs & radio!

155 Dr Lizardo  Apr 27, 2014 2:21:25pm

re: #154 CuriousLurker

What a nutburger that woman must be.

And how is a First Amendment right not protected by the First Amendment?

*headdesk*

156 CuriousLurker  Apr 27, 2014 2:31:32pm

re: #155 Dr Lizardo

What a nutburger that woman must be.

And how is a First Amendment right not protected by the First Amendment?

*headdesk*

Inorite? I love how defenders of the First Amendment are transformed into Shariah Enablers.

They may be nutburgers, but their efforts have their intended effect. The steady drip, drip, drip of bigotry & scare mongering seeps out of the putrid fear factories and is slowly absorbed into the mainstream. And trust me when I say it IS constant—if you want to see for yourself, just set up some Google alerts to be mailed to you every day (if you think can stand it—it’s really depressing).

Once the distortions are in the mainstream, it becomes difficult (if not impossible) to disentangle them from the truth.

157 freetoken  Apr 27, 2014 2:43:03pm

The OSX Finder was always a pain, and doing backups right now I realize just how slow it can be.

158 RealityBasedSteve  Apr 27, 2014 2:43:57pm

re: #154 CuriousLurker

Oh look, a new name to add to my list of scumbags jumping on the Islamophobia FactoryTM gravy train—Joy Brighton. She has a book out and guess who’s pimping it? You get 3 guesses, the first 2 don’t count. Ready? Surprise!!

An Islamophobic framing guide—otherwise known as “precise language” in wingnut parlance—from the “Take Action” section of the book’s website:

Islamophobic framing guide

New terms coming to you soon via Fox News and wingnut blogs & radio!

Jeeze… can these people become any more ignorant. What’s next?

Kabobs ==> Sharia Meat Sticks
Algebra ==> Sharia Math
People Named Al ==> Suspected Sharia Supporter

RBS.

159 CuriousLurker  Apr 27, 2014 2:45:39pm

re: #158 RealityBasedSteve

Jeeze… can these people become any more ignorant. What’s next?

Kabobs ==> Sharia Meat Sticks
Algebra ==> Sharia Math
People Named Al ==> Suspected Sharia Supporter

RBS.

LOL—good ones! You could have a future with… //

160 Dr Lizardo  Apr 27, 2014 2:46:41pm

re: #156 CuriousLurker

Once the distortions are in the mainstream, it becomes difficult (if not impossible) to disentangle them from the truth.

And therein is the biggest problem of them all.

161 Dr Lizardo  Apr 27, 2014 2:47:26pm

re: #158 RealityBasedSteve

Jeeze… can these people become any more ignorant. What’s next?

Kabobs ==> Sharia Meat Sticks
Algebra ==> Sharia Math
People Named Al ==> Suspected Sharia Supporter

RBS.

Döner kebab = Sharia On Rye.

162 Justanotherhuman  Apr 27, 2014 2:47:58pm

re: #160 Dr Lizardo

And therein is the biggest problem of them all.

Yeah, esp when the mainstream types bite…

164 Pie-onist Overlord  Apr 27, 2014 2:51:08pm

HURR HURR SHARIA DISNEY HOUSE!!!!!!!

165 calochortus  Apr 27, 2014 2:59:18pm

re: #163 Pie-onist Overlord

Muslims Do A Fun Thing And Neighbors Are Pissed.

I wonder what colors those houses were, back in the day. A lot of Victorian houses had color schemes that would make your eyes bleed.

166 Stanley Sea  Apr 27, 2014 3:00:26pm
167 CuriousLurker  Apr 27, 2014 3:00:58pm

re: #163 Pie-onist Overlord

Muslims Do A Fun Thing And Neighbors Are Pissed.

If there’s a homeowner’s association with rules forbidding the cheerful colors, then the neighbors would have a leg to stand on. Since there was no mention of such a rule, then I assume it doesn’t exist, ergo they can go piss up a rope.

I guess they’ve never heard of San Francisco’s painted ladies, and they would totally hate the riotously colorful Victorian houses along the Jersey Shore.

168 CuriousLurker  Apr 27, 2014 3:02:55pm

re: #164 Pie-onist Overlord

HURR HURR SHARIA DISNEY HOUSE!!!!!!!

Is nothing sacred anymore??

169 Varek Raith  Apr 27, 2014 3:03:41pm

We are all Shariah Disney Houses.
Or something.
I’m confused.

170 Justanotherhuman  Apr 27, 2014 3:04:27pm

re: #163 Pie-onist Overlord

Muslims Do A Fun Thing And Neighbors Are Pissed.

That house looks better than this one (OK in this photo) which recently was painted a horrible orange and brown combo. I was in Charlotte recently and saw it; it’s on the same street I lived on for several years in a neighborhood that has had on-going gentrification for 20+ yrs, close by a hipster “business” district.

Image: victoria.jpg

171 blueraven  Apr 27, 2014 3:05:55pm

re: #167 CuriousLurker

If there’s a homeowner’s association with rules forbidding the cheerful colors, then the neighbors would have a leg to stand on. Since there was no mention of such a rule, then I assume it doesn’t exist, ergo they can go piss up a rope.

I guess they’ve never heard of San Francisco’s painted ladies, and they would totally hate the riotously colorful Victorian houses along the Jersey Shore.

So ridiculous to go off over paint!
I have a feeling there is something more going on…

172 Varek Raith  Apr 27, 2014 3:06:15pm

re: #165 calochortus

I wonder what colors those houses were, back in the day. A lot of Victorian houses had color schemes that would make your eyes bleed.

Seriously. It was part of the style. Hideous though it may be.
XD

173 Varek Raith  Apr 27, 2014 3:07:24pm

re: #171 blueraven

So ridiculous to go off over paint!
I have a feeling there is something more going on…

SHARIAH PAINT

174 CuriousLurker  Apr 27, 2014 3:10:46pm

re: #173 Varek Raith

SHARIAH PAINT

How did you know? It’s all part of our Shariah Manfesto

175 Varek Raith  Apr 27, 2014 3:10:59pm

Sigh, why are people so dumb sometimes?

176 Varek Raith  Apr 27, 2014 3:11:48pm

re: #174 CuriousLurker

How did you know? It’s all part of our Shariah Manfesto

Good grief, that’s not parody?
Sigh…

177 RealityBasedSteve  Apr 27, 2014 3:11:57pm

re: #173 Varek Raith

SHARIAH PAINT

DON’T WHITEWASH THE TRUTH!!!!

178 CuriousLurker  Apr 27, 2014 3:12:24pm

re: #176 Varek Raith

Good grief, that’s not parody?
Sigh…

Nope, unfortunately it’s for real.

179 Varek Raith  Apr 27, 2014 3:13:22pm

Youtube Video

Pretty much.

180 b_sharp  Apr 27, 2014 3:17:45pm

re: #67 Justanotherhuman

Wonderful post, Curious! I’m in total agreement with everything you said. I have only seen one Muslim that I could recognize by her hijab in this little conservative hick crossroads. It just doesn’t ever occur to me to ask about anyone’s religion, though, unless they volunteer the info, since I’m not interested in it myself, and it’s no indicator most of the time about how they think generally.

Meanwhile, my family and I are beginning to heal from the initial shock we suffered last week. Life does go on, and there are practical matters we must deal with every day, kids, work (my grandson missed an entire week and my granddaughter’s business also suffered), but we’ve pulled together to help one another.

We truly appreciate all the condolences people have expressed. Thanks to all of you for your kind thoughts over the past week. : )

{{{JAH}}}

181 The War TARDIS  Apr 27, 2014 3:17:57pm

re: #163 Pie-onist Overlord

Rock on, you crazy diamonds!

182 Snarknado!  Apr 27, 2014 3:20:36pm

re: #163 Pie-onist Overlord

Muslims Do A Fun Thing And Neighbors Are Pissed.

In this land (Northern CA) of Property Values Over All, anything even slightly out of the ordinary is likely to get this kind of response from the neighbors. (Especially in wannabe upscale neighborhoods, she said snarkily.) Paint jobs will do it, so will “garish” holiday decorations (if they don’t become attractions, and sometimes even then), and landscaping.

Of course, the fact that the “guilty parties” are moooslims makes it easier.

(From what I’ve seen of the pictures, the house looks great, and despite what I’ve said so far, I feel sure that that house, decorations and all, would be an ornament in my own neck of the woods.)

183 EPR-radar  Apr 27, 2014 3:20:47pm

re: #140 klys

It is a gold mine. Another sample:

When we last checked in with the Klapötke lab at Munich, it was to highlight their accomplishments in the field of nitrotetrazole oxides. Never forget, the biggest accomplishment in such work is not blowing out the lab windows. We’re talking high-nitrogen compounds here (a specialty of Klapötke’s group), and the question is not whether such things are going to be explosive hazards. (That’s been settled by their empirical formulas, which generally look like typographical errors). The question is whether you’re going to be able to get a long enough look at the material before it realizes its dream of turning into an expanding cloud of hot nitrogen gas.

It’s time for another dispatch from the land of spiderweb-cracked blast shields and “Oh well, I never liked that fume hood, anyway”. Today we have a fine compound from this line of work, part of a series derived from N-amino azidotetrazole. The reasonable response to that statement is “Now hold it right there”, because most chemists will take one look at that name and start making get-it-away-from-me gestures. I’m one of them. To me, that structure is a flashing red warning sign on a dead-end road, but then, I suffer from a lack of vision in these matters.

184 BigBadDemocrat  Apr 27, 2014 3:21:39pm

From what I see on the Bundy Ranch deal in Nevada the cows are the only ones who have any smarts, the Bundy’s, the Tea Party people, the militia types the BLM , the Sheriff , the FBI all of them not as smart as the cows.

185 Snarknado!  Apr 27, 2014 3:23:07pm

re: #152 Charles Johnson

[Embedded image]

That color doesn’t go really well with the other standard colors on your pages though, grumble, grumble, grumble. Particularly the “this is my post” headers, which are the only place anyone will ever see them.

186 klys  Apr 27, 2014 3:23:24pm

re: #183 EPR-radar

It is a gold mine. Another sample:

I just…

This blog slays me dead. My husband was trying to figure out why I was dying of laughter and was not impressed with the excerpt I read him.

I linked it to one of my fellow chemistry majors in undergrad. At least someone else I know will appreciate it.

187 RealityBasedSteve  Apr 27, 2014 3:23:46pm

re: #183 EPR-radar

It is a gold mine. Another sample:

I’m not a chemist, I quit at Organic 1, (and don’t remember any of that), but it’s a great read. He’s got a great style, and even I can ‘kinda-sorta-littlebit’ follow the articles.

RBS

188 The War TARDIS  Apr 27, 2014 3:24:53pm

re: #182 Snarknado!

Take a close look at the other houses.

You will notice peeling paint, wood falling off, and unkempt yards. This house simply looks beautiful and well kept.

Personally, I want fewer McMansions, and more modern Painted Ladies.

189 jaunte  Apr 27, 2014 3:27:03pm

re: #158 RealityBasedSteve

Jeeze… can these people become any more ignorant. What’s next?

Kabobs ==> Sharia Meat Sticks
Algebra ==> Shara Math
People Named Al ==> Suspected Sharia Supporter

RBS.

Aldine, Texas: Al-Deen.

190 The War TARDIS  Apr 27, 2014 3:27:10pm

re: #182 Snarknado!

The Comments there are great too.

191 BigBadDemocrat  Apr 27, 2014 3:28:31pm

BLM boss man, what about the past due grazing fees?

Moo

Bundy , you cows follow me.

Moo

FBI, we need your finger prints.

Moo, Moo, Mooooooo

Tea Party boss, vote Republican.

Moo Moo, Moo

192 calochortus  Apr 27, 2014 3:29:35pm

re: #188 The War TARDIS

Take a close look at the other houses.

You will notice peeling paint, wood falling off, and unkempt yards. This house simply looks beautiful and well kept.

Personally, I want fewer McMansions, and more modern Painted Ladies.

I’m not sure where you are seeing peeling paint and unkempt yards. This particular block seems to be mostly Victorian and early 20th century houses, although many of the houses in surrounding blocks are newer. It’s just that all the neighbors have painted their houses in pale, “tasteful” colors and this house is different. Neither the pale colors nor the multicolor versions are particularly authentic, but it’s only paint for heaven’s sake. And while the house in question is multicolored, the colors are not garish.

193 b_sharp  Apr 27, 2014 3:31:47pm

re: #191 BigBadDemocrat

BLM boss man, what about the past due grazing fees?

Moo

Bundy , you cows follow me.

Moo

FBI, we need your finger prints.

Moo, Moo, Mooooooo

Tea Party boss, vote Republican.

Moo Moo, Moo

Hey man, don’t have a cow.

194 RealityBasedSteve  Apr 27, 2014 3:32:54pm

re: #193 b_sharp

Hey man, don’t have a cow.

If you can not afford a cow, one will be provided for you free of charge.

RBS

195 The War TARDIS  Apr 27, 2014 3:39:44pm

re: #192 calochortus

A list:

Look at 1:23-1:25 in the video.

Then, at 1:27, the Left House has a shitty overgrown mess for a yard, and I think the paint on the right one is fading.

1:30, paint chipping, wood exposed.

1:36, house next to the cool one has some ratty little shrubs.

1:40, far right house has peeling paint.

Since they all say they are so for preservation, they are failing at it. Also, Victorian Style Houses tended to be painted colorfully.

I hope the internet gives Lou Faria a hard time.

196 calochortus  Apr 27, 2014 3:39:48pm

Here is a link to what I believe is that house (on the left-before painting) and a couple neighbors.
It looks like a nice neighborhood.

197 Snarknado!  Apr 27, 2014 3:42:04pm

re: #188 The War TARDIS

Sure… I thought that’s what I said.

198 Skip Intro  Apr 27, 2014 3:42:52pm

From 1939: England in Color, just because.

199 Varek Raith  Apr 27, 2014 3:43:14pm

Did youtube change their video display size?

200 calochortus  Apr 27, 2014 3:44:59pm

re: #195 The War TARDIS

That appears to be lousy journalism, not hypocritical neighbors.
I’m looking around on Google Street View and not seeing those house near what looks to be the house in question.

201 Stanley Sea  Apr 27, 2014 3:48:32pm

Ha!

202 The War TARDIS  Apr 27, 2014 3:49:23pm

re: #200 calochortus

Or, plausibly, making those who are whining about the house, like Lou Faria, look like hypocritical idiots.

Lou there has got a bug up his butt.

203 klys  Apr 27, 2014 3:51:29pm

re: #200 calochortus

That appears to be lousy journalism, not hypocritical neighbors.
I’m looking around on Google Street View and not seeing those house near what looks to be the house in question.

Here’s a fun bright colored house.

204 klys  Apr 27, 2014 3:52:49pm

re: #202 The War TARDIS

Even if it’s making him look hypocritical, if it’s not real, it’s shitty journalism.

It’s shitty journalism even if the end result is something you advocate. Let’s not advocate for shitty journalism anywhere.

205 calochortus  Apr 27, 2014 3:53:28pm

re: #202 The War TARDIS

Or, plausibly, making those who are whining about the house, like Lou Faria, look like hypocritical idiots.

Which would be poor journalism in my view.
I suspect the neighbors are just very used to how things have been. A little like discovering the ancient Greeks and Romans put garish paint on their statuary. So much for the pure, elegant white marble esthetic.

206 The War TARDIS  Apr 27, 2014 3:57:00pm

re: #205 calochortus

I suspect bigotry is part of the problem here too. They are Muslim, and plausibly immigrants. Also, I am getting the feeling this is an older neighborhood demographically. Might not like a younger crowd moving in.

207 Justanotherhuman  Apr 27, 2014 4:01:04pm

In my aunt’s old neighborhood, a working class area of small, not-very-old ranch style and “cottagey” homes, one woman had painted her house pink. She was older, and had a very nicely landscaped yard with plenty of flowers, etc. It was very pleasing to my middle-aged eye whenever I passed it. I always wanted to see what the inside looked like. : )

208 klys  Apr 27, 2014 4:02:28pm

re: #207 Justanotherhuman

I admit, I wouldn’t paint my house a color like that, but that’s just because my tastes run to the more natural/earth tone colors.

The husband had the house repainted about a year into when we had started dating and smart man that he is, let me choose the colors. The end result is MUCH BETTER than it was.

209 Stanley Sea  Apr 27, 2014 4:03:50pm

re: #207 Justanotherhuman

In my aunt’s old neighborhood, a working class area of small, not-very-old ranch style and “cottagey” homes, one woman had painted her house pink. She was older, and had a very nicely landscaped yard with plenty of flowers, etc. It was very pleasing to my middle-aged eye whenever I passed it. I always wanted to see what the inside looked like. : )

Hey JAH. Thoughts have been going out to you. xxoo

I had a client that painted her house this weird bright cottage blue. It looked really bad. Her response was thank goodness for the pink house about 5 down that took everyone’s eye away from her huge mistake.

210 calochortus  Apr 27, 2014 4:03:54pm

re: #206 The War TARDIS

I don’t know any of these folks, so I won’t speculate about motivations. If you are interested, there is demographic information available here. It’s a bit more Caucasian than the surrounding area, but you have to note that Santa Clara as a whole is 35% Asian so it is easy to be less diverse in a given neighborhood. It doesn’t seem to skew old.

211 calochortus  Apr 27, 2014 4:05:25pm

re: #209 Stanley Sea

Hey JAH. Thoughts have been going out to you. xxoo

I had a client that painted her house this weird bright cottage blue. It looked really bad. Her response was thank goodness for the pink house about 5 down that took everyone’s eye away from her huge mistake.

It seems odd to me, but blue seems to be a difficult color to work with on a house exterior. I’ve seen some serious mistakes…

212 Lidane  Apr 27, 2014 4:05:52pm

re: #207 Justanotherhuman

In my aunt’s old neighborhood, a working class area of small, not-very-old ranch style and “cottagey” homes, one woman had painted her house pink. She was older, and had a very nicely landscaped yard with plenty of flowers, etc. It was very pleasing to my middle-aged eye whenever I passed it. I always wanted to see what the inside looked like. : )

I have neighbors a block from my house who painted their house a bright magenta color with purple trim. It helps that they use it as an art studio, so there aren’t any real complaints that I’ve heard about it.

Another house in my area is a bright, fire engine red with white trim. Its got a sleek, modern design and an old barn paintjob. Haha.

213 klys  Apr 27, 2014 4:06:07pm

re: #211 calochortus

It seems odd to me, but blue seems to be a difficult color to work with on a house exterior. I’ve seen some serious mistakes…

Before our house was repainted, some of the trim was baby-blue.

With a yellow tone for the base. And then white for the other trim bits.

Yeah, I fixed that.

214 calochortus  Apr 27, 2014 4:08:24pm

re: #213 klys

Thank you, on behalf of any neighbors that might have to look at the house.

215 klys  Apr 27, 2014 4:09:39pm

re: #214 calochortus

Thank you, on behalf of any neighbors that might have to look at the house.

I hit Alameda yesterday. We have discovered a tiki bar we need to go back and try.

But also, fabric! I have 4 new pieces of hand-dyed. And a laying tool. And another DVD of 10 years of Just Cross Stitch.

216 kirkspencer  Apr 27, 2014 4:10:32pm

About 35 years ago, one of the owners of a house in my neighborhood painted their house teal, and accented it with (large) pink elephants. Oh, and there was a yard full of pink flamingos. It was done in protest of a few neighbor’s behavior - hypocrisy, to use one word.

I have a high bar, now, for “bad house paint choice.”

217 calochortus  Apr 27, 2014 4:10:42pm

re: #215 klys

It’s all about the fiber…

218 klys  Apr 27, 2014 4:11:05pm

re: #217 calochortus

It’s all about the fiber…

I will let you fondle this linen. It is to dye for. (Haha.)

219 Charles Johnson  Apr 27, 2014 4:11:45pm

Superstitious Delta Airlines Adds Busty Mermaids To Plane Noses

Youtube Video

220 calochortus  Apr 27, 2014 4:11:49pm

re: #218 klys

Oooooohhhhhhh!

221 The War TARDIS  Apr 27, 2014 4:12:12pm

re: #211 calochortus

re: #213 klys

If I ever get into the position to, I would love to have a house like the one on the far left here.

Maybe Painted TARDIS Blue? Or maybe just a TARDIS Blue door?

222 Justanotherhuman  Apr 27, 2014 4:12:36pm

re: #209 Stanley Sea

Hey JAH. Thoughts have been going out to you. xxoo

I had a client that painted her house this weird bright cottage blue. It looked really bad. Her response was thank goodness for the pink house about 5 down that took everyone’s eye away from her huge mistake.

SS. : )

The pink house was on the corner, and it was not that Pepto Bismol pink, but a lighter shade that didn’t look gaudy in the least, just stood out from the blah conservatism of the other houses. Most people, if they had the nerve, would paint the trim some color other than white and thought they were edgy. My last house was red brick w/mainly blue and a little white trim. Not so oddly, the house before that (same style but w/o the bay window) was the same colors. : )

ETA: The blue was wedgewood in both cases.

223 klys  Apr 27, 2014 4:12:37pm

re: #216 kirkspencer

About 35 years ago, one of the owners of a house in my neighborhood painted their house teal, and accented it with (large) pink elephants. Oh, and there was a yard full of pink flamingos. It was done in protest of a few neighbor’s behavior - hypocrisy, to use one word.

I have a high bar, now, for “bad house paint choice.”

There’s a house in the Bay Area that used to be famous for having TONS of pink flamingos in the yard. To the point that it was written up in guidebooks and whatnot.

They’re all gone now, but it was still kind of fun.

I admire folks who can pull off color like that. All the walls in our house are white, in part because I’m scared to try doing vivid colors on the walls. But at the same time, I sort of want to, on at least one wall (or in a nook somewhere… next house).

224 klys  Apr 27, 2014 4:14:54pm

re: #221 The War TARDIS

There are some really, really fantastically beautiful houses up in SF.

And some terrible eyesores too.

The house I lust after is up there, probably more than I want to know how much it would cost.

225 calochortus  Apr 27, 2014 4:15:56pm

Our house is green. The trim is white. Pretty wild, huh? ;) Thus it has been for 50 years, and thus it will probably be as long as we own it. Easy and inoffensive.

226 calochortus  Apr 27, 2014 4:16:17pm

re: #224 klys

And which house is that?

227 Gus  Apr 27, 2014 4:17:14pm

Probably better this way.

228 klys  Apr 27, 2014 4:17:18pm

re: #226 calochortus

This one.

229 klys  Apr 27, 2014 4:18:25pm

re: #227 Gus

If you ever get the chance to travel up that way, Gus, you might really enjoy the Minutemen National Historic Site.

Go on a weekday, you can do the tour that goes down into the command center.

On the tour.

230 Lidane  Apr 27, 2014 4:19:54pm

Heh.

231 Gus  Apr 27, 2014 4:20:15pm

re: #229 klys

If you ever get the chance to travel up that way, Gus, you might really enjoy the Minutemen National Historic Site.

Go on a weekday, you can do the tour that goes down into the command center.

On the tour.

Thanks! 60 Minutes is doing a segment of the ICBMs.

232 calochortus  Apr 27, 2014 4:21:05pm

re: #228 klys

This one.

Nice! But let’s face it, it would be windy and foggy, and it’s next to a golf course, and umm, well, we couldn’t afford the property taxes let alone the sales price.

233 GeneJockey  Apr 27, 2014 4:21:21pm

Hey, WW!!

20 miles in, the halfway point. Albion Rd. in Woodside.

234 freetoken  Apr 27, 2014 4:21:38pm

Have I mentioned that the (old) Apple Finder can be glacially slow when dealing with USB memory sticks?

235 Lancelot Link  Apr 27, 2014 4:22:09pm

re: #215 klys

But also, fabric! I have 4 new pieces of hand-dyed. And a laying tool. And another DVD of 10 years of Just Cross Stitch.

Were you at the handweavers’ conference in Oakland?

236 klys  Apr 27, 2014 4:22:30pm

re: #231 Gus

I confess, I’m young enough that a lot of that is all in the fuzzy history category. I learned a lot on the tour; it was neat to see. They’ve pretty much left the building mostly untouched from the last day of service in …I think it was 92 for that particular site.

But it’s also really accessible, just off I-90. They’re working to build a proper visitor’s center, but even what they had was neat, and the tour …there’s no words.

Only 6 people per tour (that’s really all that will fit in the elevator down) and they’re first come-first serve.

237 Lidane  Apr 27, 2014 4:22:32pm

re: #223 klys

There’s a house in the Bay Area that used to be famous for having TONS of pink flamingos in the yard. To the point that it was written up in guidebooks and whatnot.

They’re all gone now, but it was still kind of fun.

There used to be a plant store here in Austin famous for having a massive flock of 1000 pink flamingos out in front. I think they ended up in those Roadside America guides.

The store closed a few years back and the flamingos went with it. :(

238 klys  Apr 27, 2014 4:23:11pm

re: #235 Lancelot Link

No, hit up Needle in a Haystack in Alameda. I didn’t know about that.

This was probably for the better.

239 klys  Apr 27, 2014 4:23:47pm

re: #232 calochortus

Nice! But let’s face it, it would be windy and foggy, and it’s next to a golf course, and umm, well, we couldn’t afford the property taxes let alone the sales price.

HAHAHA, did I say anything about affording it?

240 Gus  Apr 27, 2014 4:25:46pm

re: #236 klys

I confess, I’m young enough that a lot of that is all in the fuzzy history category. I learned a lot on the tour; it was neat to see. They’re pretty much left the building mostly untouched from the last day of service in …I think it was 92 for that particular site.

But it’s also really accessible, just off I-90. They’re working to build a proper visitor’s center, but even what they had was neat, and the tour …there’s no words.

Only 6 people per tour (that’s really all that will fit in the elevator down) and they’re first come-first serve.

Yeah, I figure there might be a lot of WTF moments for some younger viewers about all the ICBMs and nukes we have in the continental US.

241 Kragar  Apr 27, 2014 4:26:24pm

Been watching Macgyver on Netflix. So far, they only thing recycled as much as the locations has been the supporting characters.

242 klys  Apr 27, 2014 4:27:50pm

re: #240 Gus

Yeah, I figure there might be a lot of WTF moments for some younger viewers about all the ICBMs and nukes we have in the continental US.

It really is a different mindset. I have no conception of what it was like in the Cold War. I can read about it, I can learn about it, but the emotional connotations are pretty much lost to me. It makes understanding some of the reactions of people …harder, sometimes.

On the other hand, I like to delude myself into thinking that I am a rational human being who is not going to freak out about the realities of the world we live in, versus the ideal world I wish we had.

243 A Mom Anon  Apr 27, 2014 4:30:17pm

re: #224 klys

It’s only paint. You can fix it, don’t be scared.

I LOVE color. Our home is a 1970’s semi contemporary “cottage”. It was a mess when we bought it. We’ve totally remodeled it, inside and out. Our master suite is terra cotta with a harvest gold color. It’s warm and comfy. In the bath, there is terra cotta tile, the walls are terra cotta and the ceiling and trim are yellow/gold. The bedroom is the opposite color placement, terra cotta ceiling and trim with yellow/gold walls. Our dining room is sunflower yellow with brown trim and I just painted sunflowers on the walls. The No Longer a Teenager’s room is blue gray with a night sky painted on the ceiling (his choice, though the walls were the same blue with the solar system painted on it til he was 16 and decided he wanted the blue/gray and room for all his rock band posters). The outside is a caramel color with two darker versions of that color for the trim.

Pick colors you love, you really can’t go wrong.

245 kirkspencer  Apr 27, 2014 4:32:33pm

re: #223 klys

There’s a house in the Bay Area that used to be famous for having TONS of pink flamingos in the yard. To the point that it was written up in guidebooks and whatnot.

They’re all gone now, but it was still kind of fun.

I admire folks who can pull off color like that. All the walls in our house are white, in part because I’m scared to try doing vivid colors on the walls. But at the same time, I sort of want to, on at least one wall (or in a nook somewhere… next house).

Just to be clear, they weren’t ‘pulling off color like that’. It was garish and painful and a little disturbing. It was meant to offend the neighbors, the neighbors who were long-term, large-scale alcoholics yet loudly complained about about the ‘trash’ that’d moved in next door.

(eta: hence the pink elephants. The large, indian elephant size pink elephants.)

246 calochortus  Apr 27, 2014 4:33:31pm

re: #242 klys

I remember the Cold War just fine. I don’t recall ever actually worrying about it. My parents were of a calm, rational nature so I didn’t have any angst while I was too young to really understand. When I was older, well, it had been going on long enough that it seemed unlikely anything would come of it.

247 Gus  Apr 27, 2014 4:34:10pm

re: #242 klys

It really is a different mindset. I have no conception of what it was like in the Cold War. I can read about it, I can learn about it, but the emotional connotations are pretty much lost to me. It makes understanding some of the reactions of people …harder, sometimes.

On the other hand, I like to delude myself into thinking that I am a rational human being who is not going to freak out about the realities of the world we live in, versus the ideal world I wish we had.

I was young for the most part. Maybe had a couple of nuclear attack nightmares as a kid. Read some of the brochures about what to do. We had the Civil Defense manual. Fall out shelter signs throughout Brooklyn. Eventually got hooked on fighter jets, interceptors and military hardware to a certain degree. I only remember doing “duck and cover” once in Ulster County, NY. We were pretty certain nobody would do anything crazy because of MAD.

248 klys  Apr 27, 2014 4:34:10pm

re: #245 kirkspencer

Just to be clear, they weren’t ‘pulling off color like that’. It was garish and painful and a little disturbing. It was meant to offend the neighbors, the neighbors who were long-term, large-scale alcoholics yet loudly complained about about the ‘trash’ that’d moved in next door.

I should clarify too: to have the guts to paint that color is …something I haven’t brought myself to do?

It might be easier to do as a middle finger towards someone, but I won’t lie, I can be vindictive, bitchy, and passive-aggressive at times. I just try to keep that under control and be a better person than that.

250 Gus  Apr 27, 2014 4:35:24pm
251 Romantic Heretic  Apr 27, 2014 4:36:19pm

re: #136 freetoken

Cleaning up my files before I start on the upgrade journey (which could easily take 24 hours) - amazing how much stuff I have accumulated on the Mac, and even on the desktop, over time.

A digital pack rat, I am.

I can dig it. I have stuff on my Mac from over a decade and three other Macs ago.

252 klys  Apr 27, 2014 4:36:25pm

re: #250 Gus

I am (rewatching) videos of ChaserCon 2014.

I hope the folks in those homes are all physically ok.

253 Lidane  Apr 27, 2014 4:37:09pm

re: #243 A Mom Anon

I actually painted my bedroom walls at my mom’s house a shell pink color. I loved those walls because they were relaxing and warm with the lighting and went well with the furniture. They repainted mom’s house a while back and my walls there are white again. I was so bummed. It doesn’t feel right anymore. =/

When I get to a place where I can go wild with paint, I’m going to have different rooms in different colors, just to give them personality. White walls are boring and uninspiring.

254 Gus  Apr 27, 2014 4:37:10pm

re: #252 klys

I am (rewatching) videos of ChaserCon 2014.

I hope the folks in those homes are all physically ok.

Saw this.

255 Gus  Apr 27, 2014 4:38:27pm
256 Varek Raith  Apr 27, 2014 4:38:34pm

Ugh, I’m about to take a flamethrower to the trees.
Damn allergies.

257 Charles Johnson  Apr 27, 2014 4:39:09pm

OK, made the green of the new ‘comment to Page’ button a bit darker so it’ll show up better against the green of the comment info bar.

258 klys  Apr 27, 2014 4:39:26pm

re: #254 Gus

My grandparents’ house in WI was hit in 2000. They were home and didn’t get to the basement in time - it formed right nearby, and by the time they realized it, the wind had blown in the doors near the entrances to the basement and they couldn’t get down there.

Fortunately they only lost the tin off the roof (! - with the subsequent 3” of rain, yeah, the house pretty much got redone) and they weren’t hurt. They did end up having to clear cut close to 50 acres of forest, because of the trees downed.

The lumber sale did pay for the extension to the house.

259 Gus  Apr 27, 2014 4:41:25pm

re: #258 klys

My grandparents’ house in WI was hit in 2000. They were home and didn’t get to the basement in time - it formed right nearby, and by the time they realized it, the wind had blown in the doors near the entrances to the basement and they couldn’t get down there.

Fortunately they only lost the tin off the roof (! - with the subsequent 3” of rain, yeah, the house pretty much got redone) and they weren’t hurt. They did end up having to clear cut close to 50 acres of forest, because of the trees downed.

The lumber sale did pay for the extension to the house.

I’ve never seen a tornado. Worst I saw was a massive anvil cloud developing in North Dakota while driving across the state. Was a a truck stop area. Saw that monstrous looking thing and kept driving east. Scary looking thing.

260 Gus  Apr 27, 2014 4:42:03pm
261 klys  Apr 27, 2014 4:43:07pm

re: #259 Gus

I’ve never seen a tornado. Worst I saw was a massive anvil cloud developing in North Dakota while driving across the state. Was a a truck stop area. Saw that monstrous looking thing and kept driving east. Scary looking thing.

I have been fascinated since well before the tornado hit my grandparents’. I would love to see one, PREFERABLY under my own control (aka in a vehicle, with someone who knows what they’re doing), and if I can be picky, one taking place out in the open country where it will do no harm to people or animals.

I have no desire to see one bearing down on my house.

262 GeneJockey  Apr 27, 2014 4:43:10pm

re: #256 Varek Raith

Ugh, I’m about to take a flamethrower to the trees.
Damn allergies.

Mrs. Jockey has recently been prone to coughing jags. I asked, “Have you been taking your Claritin?”

“No. I think it’s a cold, not allergies.”

“Do your joints hurt? Are you febrile?”

“No.”

“TAKE THE CLARITIN!!”

“OKAY!!!”

24 hours later: “How’s your cough?”

“Gone.”

3 days later, she’s coughing again. “Did you take your Claritin?”

“No”

Lather, rinse, repeat.

263 Justanotherhuman  Apr 27, 2014 4:43:40pm

re: #249 Pie-onist Overlord

What has happened to these beautiful old houses will make you cry.

Yes, it’s Detroit. :(

A crying shame. All that wonderful architecture that will never be recaptured.

264 Lidane  Apr 27, 2014 4:44:44pm

Truth:

265 klys  Apr 27, 2014 4:44:50pm

re: #262 GeneJockey

Claritin (the few times I’ve taken it) made it hard for me to sleep.

Fortunately I have no allergies to pollen to speak of. Dust, yes.

Obvious solution is to never dust the house.

266 Gus  Apr 27, 2014 4:45:02pm

2 minutes ago.

267 klys  Apr 27, 2014 4:45:31pm

re: #266 Gus

We are moving into tornado season, that’s for sure.

268 calochortus  Apr 27, 2014 4:45:52pm

re: #265 klys

Nice try.

269 klys  Apr 27, 2014 4:46:29pm

re: #268 calochortus

Nice try.

It’s working so far!

///

270 GeneJockey  Apr 27, 2014 4:46:56pm

re: #265 klys

Claritin (the few times I’ve taken it) made it hard for me to sleep.

Fortunately I have no allergies to pollen to speak of. Dust, yes.

Obvious solution is to never dust the house.

Which works great, till you sit down or pick something up off a shelf.

Or breathe.
//

271 Gus  Apr 27, 2014 4:47:07pm

John Kerry allegedly dropped the a-word WRT Israel.

272 Gus  Apr 27, 2014 4:48:07pm
273 Gus  Apr 27, 2014 4:49:56pm

OK. What’s comment to LGF page?

274 GeneJockey  Apr 27, 2014 4:49:59pm

re: #265 klys

Claritin (the few times I’ve taken it) made it hard for me to sleep.

Not a problem for Mrs. Jockey. She could sleep leaning against a post. Many’s the time I come to bed, and she says, “Good night, darlinnnnnnngggnnnnooooooooorrrrrrrkkkkkkkk”

The ability to start snoring mid word - that’s her Super Power

275 Gus  Apr 27, 2014 4:50:15pm

Make a page from a comment?

276 Lidane  Apr 27, 2014 4:50:22pm

re: #273 Gus

OK. What’s comment to LGF page?

That’s where you turn a comment into a page, I think.

278 Gus  Apr 27, 2014 4:50:30pm

Looks like it.

279 Lidane  Apr 27, 2014 4:51:03pm

OK, this is awesome:

280 Killgore Trout  Apr 27, 2014 4:51:21pm

re: #272 Gus

[Embedded content]

Ugh fuck

281 Killgore Trout  Apr 27, 2014 4:55:13pm

re: #271 Gus

John Kerry allegedly dropped the a-word WRT Israel.

Hmmm. That’s a pretty serious thing to say, probably not a mistake and probably not an expression of his personal opinion. I think it’s likely his comments were approved and reflect the White House’s view.

282 Gus  Apr 27, 2014 4:55:24pm

Update.

283 Gus  Apr 27, 2014 4:55:58pm

re: #281 Killgore Trout

Hmmm. That’s a pretty serious thing to say, probably not a mistake and probably not an expression of his personal opinion. I think it’s likely his comments were approved and reflect the White House’s view.

We’ll find out soon enough.

284 Lidane  Apr 27, 2014 4:58:21pm
285 Gus  Apr 27, 2014 4:58:44pm
286 klys  Apr 27, 2014 4:59:22pm

re: #285 Gus

Was really too much to hope for a season with no fatalities.

/sigh

287 Killgore Trout  Apr 27, 2014 4:59:38pm

re: #283 Gus

We’ll find out soon enough.

I’m guessing there will be some backpeddling but I don’t think the White House is going to throw Kerry under the bus. It’s a very loaded term and I think it’s very unlikely he used it without approval in a diplomatic setting.

288 Gus  Apr 27, 2014 4:59:59pm

re: #286 klys

Was really too much to hope for a season with no fatalities.

/sigh

Yeah. Was debating about posting that.

289 Gus  Apr 27, 2014 5:01:17pm

re: #287 Killgore Trout

I’m guessing there will be some backpeddling but I don’t think the White House is going to throw Kerry under the bus. It’s a very loaded term and I think it’s very unlikely he used it without approval in a diplomatic setting.

From the article.

It wasn’t the only controversial comment on the Middle East that Kerry made during his remarks to the Trilateral Commission, a recording of which was obtained by The Daily Beast…

290 klys  Apr 27, 2014 5:01:24pm

re: #288 Gus

Yeah. Was debating about posting that.

Knowledge isn’t necessarily power, but ignorance opens one up to all kinds of risks. Better to know than to not.

291 GeneJockey  Apr 27, 2014 5:02:27pm

re: #284 Lidane

[Embedded content]

A Guy Fawkes mask, because a theocratic terrorist is such a great symbol for any insurrectionist group.

292 Killgore Trout  Apr 27, 2014 5:03:10pm

re: #289 Gus

From the article.

It wasn’t the only controversial comment on the Middle East that Kerry made during his remarks to the Trilateral Commission, a recording of which was obtained by The Daily Beast…

ugh

293 Gus  Apr 27, 2014 5:04:04pm

re: #292 Killgore Trout

ugh

Since it’s from a recording of a meeting they can always say it’s not an official statement.

294 Gus  Apr 27, 2014 5:04:30pm

Whew. Need to slow down here. I iz all over the place.

295 Gus  Apr 27, 2014 5:07:02pm

re: #292 Killgore Trout

ugh

For clarity here’s the actual context.

“A two-state solution will be clearly underscored as the only real alternative. Because a unitary state winds up either being an apartheid state with second class citizens—or it ends up being a state that destroys the capacity of Israel to be a Jewish state,”

296 Charles Johnson  Apr 27, 2014 5:07:06pm

re: #275 Gus

Make a page from a comment?

Yes - I know I’ve used comments as starting points for posts many times, and I think a couple of people have suggested it as a feature, so that’s how I spent my Sunday morning.

297 Killgore Trout  Apr 27, 2014 5:09:14pm

re: #293 Gus

Since it’s from a recording of a meeting they can always say it’s not an official statement.

Good luck with that, nobody’s going to buy it. Closed door meeting with “influential” world leaders, it’s an official statement. It’s not like he got drunk at a cocktail party and somebody secretly recorded him. I’m guessing the White House didn’t want to make it a public statement (thus the close door meeting) and they’d rather not have the recording out there.

298 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Apr 27, 2014 5:10:34pm

re: #293 Gus

Since it’s from a recording of a meeting they can always say it’s not an official statement.

There is nothing I can see wrong with the actual statement:

Because a unitary state winds up either being an apartheid state with second class citizens—or it ends up being a state that destroys the capacity of Israel to be a Jewish state,

A ‘unitary’ state that gives everyone citizenship would mean, if not now, then soon, that there were more Muslim/Arab voters than Jewish ones, which would mean Israel would not be a Jewish state anymore. The only way to prevent that would be to disallow those Arab citizens from voting or give them otherwise fewer rights.

What he is not saying is that the current situation is apartheid, which is what gets claimed all the time. This, of course, will be overlooked by people who want something to tut-tut about.

299 Gus  Apr 27, 2014 5:10:48pm

re: #297 Killgore Trout

Good luck with that, nobody’s going to buy it. Closed door meeting with “influential” world leaders, it’s an official statement. It’s not like he got drunk at a cocktail party and somebody secretly recorded him. I’m guessing the White House didn’t want to make it a public statement (thus the close door meeting) and they’d rather not have the recording out there.

PBO in 2008.

“There’s no doubt that Israel and the Palestinians have tough issues to work out to get to the goal of two states living side by side in peace and security, but injecting a term like apartheid into the discussion doesn’t advance that goal,” Obama said. “It’s emotionally loaded, historically inaccurate, and it’s not what I believe.”

300 Gus  Apr 27, 2014 5:11:28pm

re: #298 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

There is not a lot wrong with the actual statement:

A ‘unitary’ state that gives everyone citizenship would mean, if not now, then soon, that there were more Muslim/Arab voters than Jewish ones, which would mean Israel would not be a Jewish state anymore. The only way to prevent that would be to disallow those Arab citizens from voting or give them otherwise fewer rights.

What he is not saying is that the current situation is apartheid, which is what gets claimed all the time. This, of course, will be overlooked by people who want something to tut-tut about.

Yeah, if you read the whole segment, to me, it doesn’t sound that horrible.

301 Charles Johnson  Apr 27, 2014 5:11:40pm

The LGF Pages editing window now works great on mobile phones, too.

302 ObserverArt  Apr 27, 2014 5:12:08pm

re: #295 Gus

For clarity here’s the actual context.

“A two-state solution will be clearly underscored as the only real alternative. Because a unitary state winds up either being an apartheid state with second class citizens—or it ends up being a state that destroys the capacity of Israel to be a Jewish state,”

Thanks for the clarity. Makes for a completely different take on the statement.

303 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Apr 27, 2014 5:13:20pm

re: #302 ObserverArt

Thanks for the clarity. Makes for a completely different take on the statement.

It is, in fact, a rejection of the idea that Israel is currently practicing apartheid.

304 klys  Apr 27, 2014 5:13:45pm

re: #303 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

It is, in fact, a rejection of the idea that Israel is currently practicing apartheid.

But nicely points out the elephant in the room with a single-state solution.

305 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Apr 27, 2014 5:13:56pm

re: #300 Gus

Yeah, if you read the whole segment, to me, it doesn’t sound that horrible.

Number of times you’re going to hear the whole segment vs. just “Kerry said apartheid” in the next week: about a 1:100 ratio.

306 Gus  Apr 27, 2014 5:14:02pm

re: #302 ObserverArt

Thanks for the clarity. Makes for a completely different take on the statement.

Yep. Just wait and see what happens. There’s a lot going on right now with the new Fatah-Hamas coalition. Including Abbas’s statement, reversal, about the holocaust last night. He of course is Fatah. It’s up to Hamas to revise, amend, their charter.

307 goddamnedfrank  Apr 27, 2014 5:15:08pm

re: #297 Killgore Trout

Good luck with that, nobody’s going to buy it. Closed door meeting with “influential” world leaders, it’s an official statement.

That’s retarded. Politicians say shit in closed door meetings all the time that aren’t “official statements.”

That’s probably the most often reason for why the door is closed in the first place. So that individuals can speak with candor, without worrying that their frank assessments will be mistaken as official public policy.

308 Charles Johnson  Apr 27, 2014 5:16:13pm

I used to have to edit posts sometimes when I was away from the computer, and man, was it painful. But the new responsive design makes it almost as easy as the desktop version.

Installing the LGF Pages editing window as a bookmarklet is a little weird on the iPhone version of Safari, but it can be done. Unfortunately, the bookmarklet can’t read selected text on the iPhone, but it can still find embedded video and audio on lots of pages and automatically enter it into the editing window.

309 CuriousLurker  Apr 27, 2014 5:17:25pm

re: #300 Gus

Yeah, if you read the whole segment, to me, it doesn’t sound that horrible.

Seconded.

It sounds pretty accurate to me. It’s certainly not anti-Israel or anti-Semitic, especially since, as Obdi said, he’s not referring to the current situation.

310 Justanotherhuman  Apr 27, 2014 5:17:56pm

re: #302 ObserverArt

Thanks for the clarity. Makes for a completely different take on the statement.

But leave it up to a site like The Daily Beast to make a mountain out of a mole hill. (woops—corrected)

311 Gus  Apr 27, 2014 5:18:49pm

re: #309 CuriousLurker

Seconded.

It sounds pretty accurate to me. It’s certainly not anti-Israel or anti-Semitic, especially since, as Obdi said, he’s not referring to the current situation.

Would make for a good page if anyone’s up to it. That is to “translate” what one read there. Right now people will just be screaming KERRY CALLED ISRAEL AN APARTHEID STATE!

312 Lidane  Apr 27, 2014 5:19:55pm

re: #291 GeneJockey

A Guy Fawkes mask, because a theocratic terrorist is such a great symbol for any insurrectionist group.

LIES! Guy Fawkes was a freedom fighter! Anyone who’s seen V for Vendetta knows that!

313 Romantic Heretic  Apr 27, 2014 5:19:57pm

re: #259 Gus

I’ve never seen a tornado. Worst I saw was a massive anvil cloud developing in North Dakota while driving across the state. Was a a truck stop area. Saw that monstrous looking thing and kept driving east. Scary looking thing.

We had a tornado here in Toronto, well, Barrie, about 30 years ago. The sky that day looked like something out of a horror movie. Purple-green clouds so low I kept ducking my head, and roiling on top of it.

I would not have been surprised to see a portal open up and one of The Ancient Ones come through.

Scary.

314 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Apr 27, 2014 5:20:44pm

re: #304 klys

But nicely points out the elephant in the room with a single-state solution.

That room has a lot of elephants. Elephant 1: Single-state solution means either Israel disappears as a Jewish state, or apartheid. Elephant 2: The Arab states and Iran don’t actually want the Palestinians to have a stable state of their own, because they’re great propaganda. Elephant 3: The average Palestinian doesn’t like Hamas or Fatah, and those parties do not really represent the people in any sort of decent democratic way.

Etc.

315 CuriousLurker  Apr 27, 2014 5:21:09pm

re: #311 Gus

Would make for a good page if anyone’s up to it. That is to “translate” what one read there. Right now people will just be screaming KERRY CALLED ISRAEL AN APARTHEID STATE!

Indeed. I wish I had the time & energy to do it, but I’m still trying to finish the paper for work.

316 Gus  Apr 27, 2014 5:21:16pm

Comments there are kind of exploding. I’m sure this will be a mess.

317 goddamnedfrank  Apr 27, 2014 5:21:24pm

re: #304 klys

But nicely points out the elephant in the room with a single-state solution.

No sane Israeli want’s a single state solution. The biggest backers of that idea are dominionist Christian end-times worshiping fanatics who see a united Israel as a pre-condition for the apocalypse.

318 ObserverArt  Apr 27, 2014 5:21:39pm

re: #305 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

Number of times you’re going to hear the whole segment vs. just “Kerry said apartheid” in the next week: about a 1:100 ratio.

Sadly true.

And it will be more like “Kerry said Israel is becoming an apartheid state,” which is inflammatory enough to piss off everyone on all sides. Some will call it criticism, some will call it the truth, some will call out Israel, some will blame America, some will call out Kerry, and everyone will blame Obama.

Issa will probably call a hearing on the recklessness of the whole Obama Mid-East strategy.

319 klys  Apr 27, 2014 5:22:22pm

re: #314 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

Oh, I know.

I had the chance, in undergrad, to take a seminar on Israeli-Palestinian relations with a wonderful professor who had actually been attached to some of the diplomatic stuff, had met Yasser Arafat, etc., etc.

It did not make me terribly optimistic for a resolution anytime soon. But it certainly drove home a HUGE number of the issues. (I can talk with at least some knowledge about water right conflicts, for example.)

320 Justanotherhuman  Apr 27, 2014 5:22:27pm

And, of course, Josh Rogin is tweeting out his inaccurate piece…

321 Justanotherhuman  Apr 27, 2014 5:23:28pm

And you will notice that “like the old South Africa” are Rogin’s words, not Kerry’s.

322 CuriousLurker  Apr 27, 2014 5:24:25pm

re: #320 Justanotherhuman

And, of course, Josh Rogin is tweeting out his inaccurate piece…

[Embedded content]

Ugh. Enough already. Time to step away from the internet.

Later, lizards.

323 Gus  Apr 27, 2014 5:25:19pm

re: #320 Justanotherhuman

And, of course, Josh Rogin is tweeting out his inaccurate piece…

[Embedded content]

Clickbait. Because if you read the piece he wrote that’s not the conclusion.

324 kirkspencer  Apr 27, 2014 5:25:30pm

re: #317 goddamnedfrank

No sane Israeli want’s a single state solution. The biggest backers of that idea are dominionist Christian end-times worshiping fanatics who see a united Israel as a pre-condition for the apocalypse.

There’s also a loud minority of Israelis (the theocratic oriented) who want it. I agree they’re not sane, but they have influence.

325 Stanley Sea  Apr 27, 2014 5:26:15pm

re: #260 Gus

[Embedded content]

Uh no. Never seen one of those horror things.

Although a place I lived while a child (South Daytona Fl) had one go down the block during Hurricane Charley.

326 Justanotherhuman  Apr 27, 2014 5:27:15pm

re: #323 Gus

Clickbait. Because if you read the piece he wrote that’s not the conclusion.

Just. More. Irresponsible. “Journalism”.

327 Stanley Sea  Apr 27, 2014 5:27:23pm

re: #263 Justanotherhuman

A crying shame. All that wonderful architecture that will never be recaptured.

The flip ‘em millionaires, for some reason, do not see the beauty.

328 Charles Johnson  Apr 27, 2014 5:28:05pm

re: #311 Gus

Would make for a good page if anyone’s up to it. That is to “translate” what one read there. Right now people will just be screaming KERRY CALLED ISRAEL AN APARTHEID STATE!

Just had a look - yep, the usual suspects are gonna go nuts as usual, but wasn’t Kerry just stating facts? Does anyone think a one-state solution can be imposed without something resembling apartheid?

329 William Barnett-Lewis  Apr 27, 2014 5:28:06pm

re: #313 Romantic Heretic

We had a tornado here in Toronto, well, Barrie, about 30 years ago. The sky that day looked like something out of a horror movie. Purple-green clouds so low I kept ducking my head, and roiling on top of it.

I would not have been surprised to see a portal open up and one of The Ancient Ones come through.

Scary.

Back around 1980, the sky before my home towns worst tornado took on this almost neon green mixed with almost jello green. That cloud deck was really low too. Green skies, for any reason, give me the willies to this day.

My grandfather was an indirect casualty of that day. The storm had tilted some trees but not completely knocked them over and he spent all morning hooking them to his tractor and pulling them upright and staking them in place. He then went home, had lunch and his usual nap only this time he didn’t wake up. Considering his terror of ending up in a nursing home, I’ve always thought that was a pretty good way for an old farmer to go.

330 Varek Raith  Apr 27, 2014 5:28:11pm

re: #292 Killgore Trout

ugh

You really should read the articles in question every once in a while.

331 Killgore Trout  Apr 27, 2014 5:29:39pm

re: #295 Gus

For clarity here’s the actual context.

“A two-state solution will be clearly underscored as the only real alternative. Because a unitary state winds up either being an apartheid state with second class citizens—or it ends up being a state that destroys the capacity of Israel to be a Jewish state,”

It looks to me the word was used intentionally to illicit a response. I have no clue why they thought the response would be helpful to our relations or the peace process. It looks like very stupid and counterproductive diplomacy.

332 ObserverArt  Apr 27, 2014 5:29:49pm

re: #330 Varek Raith

You really should read the articles in question every once in a while.

Outrageous!

: )

333 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Apr 27, 2014 5:29:55pm

re: #330 Varek Raith

You really should read the articles in question every once in a while.

You’re talking to Killgore, a guy who has been commenting about Middle East stuff for how many years without knowing that a Sufi could be Sunni or Shi’ite?

Killgore doesn’t really do the ‘read the article’ thing.

334 Stanley Sea  Apr 27, 2014 5:30:16pm

re: #298 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

There is nothing I can see wrong with the actual statement:

A ‘unitary’ state that gives everyone citizenship would mean, if not now, then soon, that there were more Muslim/Arab voters than Jewish ones, which would mean Israel would not be a Jewish state anymore. The only way to prevent that would be to disallow those Arab citizens from voting or give them otherwise fewer rights.

What he is not saying is that the current situation is apartheid, which is what gets claimed all the time. This, of course, will be overlooked by people who want something to tut-tut about.

Exactly pearl clutchers. Disprove the statement.

335 Killgore Trout  Apr 27, 2014 5:30:31pm

re: #299 Gus

PBO in 2008.

“There’s no doubt that Israel and the Palestinians have tough issues to work out to get to the goal of two states living side by side in peace and security, but injecting a term like apartheid into the discussion doesn’t advance that goal,” Obama said. “It’s emotionally loaded, historically inaccurate, and it’s not what I believe.”

He should have stuck with that.

336 William Barnett-Lewis  Apr 27, 2014 5:30:33pm

re: #330 Varek Raith

You really should read the articles in question every once in a while.

Too hard to troll if you actually know the truth.

337 Romantic Heretic  Apr 27, 2014 5:31:24pm

re: #319 klys

Oh, I know.

I had the chance, in undergrad, to take a seminar on Israeli-Palestinian relations with a wonderful professor who had actually been attached to some of the diplomatic stuff, had met Yasser Arafat, etc., etc.

It did not make me terribly optimistic for a resolution anytime soon. But it certainly drove home a HUGE number of the issues. (I can talk with at least some knowledge about water right conflicts, for example.)

I’ll confess to a fair bit of ignorance about the state of affairs in the Middle East.

Despite that my feeling is that what’s happening there is an ancient problem that humans get themselves into time and again. That problem is that there are too many, on all sides of the conflict, who do not want peace. They want victory.

338 Gus  Apr 27, 2014 5:31:48pm

re: #331 Killgore Trout

It looks to me the word was used intentionally to illicit a response. I have no clue why they thought the response would be helpful to our relations or the peace process. It looks like very stupid and counterproductive diplomacy.

He’s just saying that a one state solution would lead to an apartheid state. Also. That’s not really the full context either. He could be responding to the suggestion of a one state solution. Basically, we need to listen to the whole thing. Or read the whole thing. What’s he responding to?

339 klys  Apr 27, 2014 5:33:13pm

re: #338 Gus

He’s just saying that a one state solution would lead to an apartheid state. Also. That’s not really the full context either. He could be responding to the suggestion of a one state solution. Basically, we need to listen to the whole thing. Or read the whole thing. What’s he responding to?

None of those options allow pearl clutching. ABORT ABORT ABORT.

//

340 Gus  Apr 27, 2014 5:34:00pm

The full quote from DB.

“A two-state solution will be clearly underscored as the only real alternative. Because a unitary state winds up either being an apartheid state with second class citizens—or it ends up being a state that destroys the capacity of Israel to be a Jewish state…once you put that frame in your mind, that reality, which is the bottom line, you understand how imperative it is to get to the two state solution, which both leaders, even yesterday, said they remain deeply committed to.”

341 Killgore Trout  Apr 27, 2014 5:34:29pm

re: #338 Gus

He’s just saying that a one state solution would lead to an apartheid state. Also. That’s not really the full context either. He could be responding to the suggestion of a one state solution. Basically, we need to listen to the whole thing. Or read the whole thing. What’s he responding to?

Daily beast has the recording, if they’re taking him out of context or misrepresenting his remarks then it’s really shitty journalism. Beast is usually a pretty responsible outlet.

342 Justanotherhuman  Apr 27, 2014 5:34:52pm

re: #337 Romantic Heretic

I’ll confess to a fair bit of ignorance about the state of affairs in the Middle East.

Despite that my feeling is that what’s happening there is an ancient problem that humans get themselves into time and again. That problem is that there are too many, on all sides of the conflict, who do not want peace. They want victory.

And in this case, why would the “victors” want the “spoils”? Co-exist, for crying out loud. This is little more than tribal rivalry, modern style, IMHO, and the stakes are very, very high.

343 Gus  Apr 27, 2014 5:35:30pm

re: #341 Killgore Trout

Daily beast has the recording, if they’re taking him out of context or misrepresenting his remarks then it’s really shitty journalism. Beast is usually a pretty responsible outlet.

Usually.

344 Stanley Sea  Apr 27, 2014 5:36:02pm

re: #322 CuriousLurker

Ugh. Enough already. Time to step away from the internet.

Later, lizards.

It’s bizarre how this situation can NEVER be talked about calmly. Hyperbole, accusations, end of the world, never ever gonna happen BS.

I want peace, the majority of the world want peace. There are factions who make money off of war. that’s it.

345 Gus  Apr 27, 2014 5:36:09pm

re: #320 Justanotherhuman

And, of course, Josh Rogin is tweeting out his inaccurate piece…

[Embedded content]

346 Gus  Apr 27, 2014 5:37:29pm
347 ObserverArt  Apr 27, 2014 5:37:58pm

re: #337 Romantic Heretic

I’ll confess to a fair bit of ignorance about the state of affairs in the Middle East.

Despite that my feeling is that what’s happening there is an ancient problem that humans get themselves into time and again. That problem is that there are too many, on all sides of the conflict, who do not want peace. They want victory.

I still refer to it as God’s (Religion’s) real test. Major religions all from the same region. A toxic human brew. Like fighting over a big rock. If they could ever get to accepting each other then there might actually be a God!

/

348 Killgore Trout  Apr 27, 2014 5:39:31pm

A possible added context is the Israelis are thinking about another unilateral disengagement similar to gaza
Israeli minister urges Netanyahu to annex settlements

349 Varek Raith  Apr 27, 2014 5:39:40pm

re: #347 ObserverArt

I still refer to it as God’s (Religion’s) real test. Major religions all from the same region. A toxic human brew. Like fighting over a big rock. If they could ever get to accepting each other then there might actually be a God!

/

That’s my rock.

350 Stanley Sea  Apr 27, 2014 5:41:11pm

re: #346 Gus

[Embedded content]

Perfect sense.

But omg watch the shitshow.

351 Gus  Apr 27, 2014 5:43:37pm

re: #350 Stanley Sea

Perfect sense.

But omg watch the shitshow.

Just getting started.

352 Gus  Apr 27, 2014 5:44:41pm
353 klys  Apr 27, 2014 5:45:43pm

Here, let’s talk about real explosives for a bit instead.

The latest addition to the long list of chemicals that I never hope to encounter takes us back to the wonderful world of fluorine chemistry. I’m always struck by how much work has taken place in that field, how long ago some of it was first done, and how many violently hideous compounds have been carefully studied. Here’s how the experimental prep of today’s fragrant breath of spring starts:

The heater was warmed to approximately 700C. The heater block glowed a dull red color, observable with room lights turned off. The ballast tank was filled to 300 torr with oxygen, and fluorine was added until the total pressure was 901 torr…

And yes, what happens next is just what you think happens: you run a mixture of oxygen and fluorine through a 700-degree-heating block. “Oh, no you don’t,” is the common reaction of most chemists to that proposal, “…not unless I’m at least a mile away, two miles if I’m downwind.” This, folks, is the bracingly direct route to preparing dioxygen difluoride, often referred to in the literature by its evocative formula of FOOF.

(Still at here.)

354 Varek Raith  Apr 27, 2014 5:47:05pm

re: #353 klys

Here, let’s talk about real explosives for a bit instead.

And yes, what happens next is just what you think happens: you run a mixture of oxygen and fluorine through a 700-degree-heating block. “Oh, no you don’t,” is the common reaction of most chemists to that proposal, “…not unless I’m at least a mile away, two miles if I’m downwind.” This, folks, is the bracingly direct route to preparing dioxygen difluoride, often referred to in the literature by its evocative formula of FOOF.

(Still at here.)

LOx FTW!
/

355 Charles Johnson  Apr 27, 2014 5:49:06pm

Are there people who are actually still hoping Israel’s going to annex the West Bank and/or Gaza? Seriously?

If not, why is Kerry’s comment outrageous or even surprising?

356 Gus  Apr 27, 2014 5:49:19pm

Kerry did not say “Israel is an apartheid state.”

And so on.

357 goddamnedfrank  Apr 27, 2014 5:50:08pm

re: #348 Killgore Trout

A possible added context is the Israelis are thinking about another unilateral disengagement similar to gaza
Israeli minister urges Netanyahu to annex settlements

Annexing settlements would be totally opposite from what happened in Gaza. Not similar at all.

358 Varek Raith  Apr 27, 2014 5:51:41pm

Annexing ≠ Disengagement.
Good bloody grief.

359 Stanley Sea  Apr 27, 2014 5:54:20pm

re: #355 Charles Johnson

Are there people who are actually still hoping Israel’s going to annex the West Bank and/or Gaza? Seriously?

If not, why is Kerry’s comment outrageous or even surprising?

KT.

KT..

KT…

360 William Barnett-Lewis  Apr 27, 2014 5:54:27pm

re: #353 klys

All I had to see was the word Fluorine. Shudder. Back in the 50’s & 60’s there were proposals for using that shit as oxidizer in rockets! Or worse, Lithium/Fluorine/LH2! Just imagine how much of Florida would be covered by the cloud if that blew up on the pad.

Of course there were the fluorine pumped gas lasers that were experimented with for Star Wars but they weren’t anywhere near as bad. “Just” a rail road tanker car full of fluorine in each satellite.

All of which makes SpaceX’s proposed Methane/LH2 engine look downright boring by comparison…

361 jaunte  Apr 27, 2014 5:54:39pm

re: #351 Gus

Just getting started.

So Kerry agrees with Ehud Barak, and it’s an outrage?

362 klys  Apr 27, 2014 5:55:05pm

re: #360 William Barnett-Lewis

FOOF

363 Stanley Sea  Apr 27, 2014 5:55:45pm

re: #361 jaunte

So Kerry agrees with Ehud Barak, and it’s an outrage?

There are people INVESTED in making this outrage.

Even on blogs.

364 Gus  Apr 27, 2014 5:56:32pm

re: #361 jaunte

So Kerry agrees with Ehud Barak, and it’s an outrage?

Still think this might make a good page. Get cracking! //

365 Justanotherhuman  Apr 27, 2014 5:56:43pm

re: #363 Stanley Sea

There are people INVESTED in making this outrage.

Even on blogs.

You mean like this…

366 Gus  Apr 27, 2014 5:57:23pm

re: #361 jaunte

So Kerry agrees with Ehud Barak, and it’s an outrage?

Good point BTW.

367 goddamnedfrank  Apr 27, 2014 5:58:45pm

re: #360 William Barnett-Lewis

All I had to see was the word Fluorine. Shudder. Back in the 50’s & 60’s there were proposals for using that shit as oxidizer in rockets! Or worse, Lithium/Fluorine/LH2! Just imagine how much of Florida would be covered by the cloud if that blew up on the pad.

Of course there were the fluorine pumped gas lasers that were experimented with for Star Wars but they weren’t anywhere near as bad. “Just” a rail road tanker car full of fluorine in each satellite.

All of which makes SpaceX’s proposed Methane/LH2 engine look downright boring by comparison…

The fun thing about Fluorine Hydrogen: You can mix the two in a climate controlled dark room and set off the explosion with a camera strobe. It’s that unstable.

368 Gus  Apr 27, 2014 5:59:25pm

If the day comes when the two-state solution collapses, and we face a South African-style struggle for equal voting rights (also for the Palestinians in the territories), then, as soon as that happens, the State of Israel is finished. (2007) Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert:

369 jaunte  Apr 27, 2014 5:59:33pm

re: #366 Gus

David Ben-Gurion, among others:
Who Talked About “Apartheid” in the Context of Israel?

370 Gus  Apr 27, 2014 6:00:00pm

re: #369 jaunte

David Ben-Gurion, among others:
Who Talked About “Apartheid” in the Context of Israel?

Got the page open already. :D

371 Gus  Apr 27, 2014 6:00:48pm

re: #369 jaunte

David Ben-Gurion, among others:
Who Talked About “Apartheid” in the Context of Israel?

Not an endorsement of that site however. O.o

372 jaunte  Apr 27, 2014 6:00:53pm

re: #370 Gus

On the other hand, that page is linking to Mondoweiss, so maybe not.

373 jaunte  Apr 27, 2014 6:01:47pm

re: #371 Gus

Dang internet.

374 klys  Apr 27, 2014 6:02:30pm

re: #367 goddamnedfrank

There’s a lot of unstable shit in this world.

Some of it is even chemical.

375 Gus  Apr 27, 2014 6:02:55pm

re: #373 jaunte

Dang internet.

Right… here.

Barak: make peace with Palestinians or face apartheid

376 jaunte  Apr 27, 2014 6:03:14pm

re: #375 Gus

That’s the one.

377 kirkspencer  Apr 27, 2014 6:07:33pm

re: #353 klys

Here, let’s talk about real explosives for a bit instead.

And yes, what happens next is just what you think happens: you run a mixture of oxygen and fluorine through a 700-degree-heating block. “Oh, no you don’t,” is the common reaction of most chemists to that proposal, “…not unless I’m at least a mile away, two miles if I’m downwind.” This, folks, is the bracingly direct route to preparing dioxygen difluoride, often referred to in the literature by its evocative formula of FOOF.

(Still at here.)

Since you’re enjoying this, let me direct you to another joy. Ignition by John D. Clark is the story of the early development of rocket fuels. It runs along tediously, as you might expect of a history of physics by a physicist, only to be interrupted by things like:

All of which Crocco knew. But with a species of courage which can be distinguished only with difficulty from certifiable lunacy, he started in 1932 on a long series of test firings with nitroglycerine (no less!) only sightly tranquilized by the addition of 30 percent of methyl alchohol.

(page 10, by the way, of a 192 page manuscript).

As a small bonus, the intro is by Isaac Asimov, who describes the author as a friend and a madman.

378 Gus  Apr 27, 2014 6:08:47pm

re: #376 jaunte

That’s the one.

“As long as in this territory west of the Jordan river there is only one political entity called Israel it is going to be either non-Jewish, or non-democratic,” Barak said. “If this bloc of millions of ­Palestinians cannot vote, that will be an apartheid state.”
— Ehud Barak (2010)

379 Gus  Apr 27, 2014 6:12:27pm

John Kerry [x]
Ehud Barak [x]
Ehud Olmert [x]

Any questions?

380 Gus  Apr 27, 2014 6:15:15pm

Kerry used the “a-word.” Barak used the “a-word.” Olmert used “South African style struggle.”

381 Killgore Trout  Apr 27, 2014 6:16:46pm

re: #355 Charles Johnson

Are there people who are actually still hoping Israel’s going to annex the West Bank and/or Gaza? Seriously?

If not, why is Kerry’s comment outrageous or even surprising?

Because it’s unhelpful to the peace process. What did Kerry’s warning help? What was the purpose? Would Kerry warn the Palestinians about becoming an Islamist terrorist state? No, it would piss them off and they’d be less willing to negotiate. Would he warn Iran about becoming a dark ages theocracy? No, that would piss them off and derail nuclear negotiations. Would be warn Assad or Putin or Maduro with an obvious insult? no. I really can’t see why this was a good diplomatic move. It hasn’t helped the peace process yet and it’s unlikely to help.

382 Killgore Trout  Apr 27, 2014 6:17:59pm

The only people that are going to be really happy are Max Blementhal, MJ Rosenberg, Mondowiess, et al. I think this was really bad diplomacy.

383 Killgore Trout  Apr 27, 2014 6:20:05pm

re: #358 Varek Raith

Annexing ≠ Disengagement.
Good bloody grief.

There is talk of another unilateral move to disengage without consulting or coordinating with the Palestinians.

384 klys  Apr 27, 2014 6:20:07pm

re: #382 Killgore Trout

The only people that are going to be really happy are Max Blementhal, MJ Rosenberg, Mondowiess, et al. I think this was really bad diplomacy.

You seem to think everything is bad diplomacy, these days, regardless of context.

Just an observation.

385 Gus  Apr 27, 2014 6:21:14pm

re: #382 Killgore Trout

The only people that are going to be really happy are Max Blementhal, MJ Rosenberg, Mondowiess, et al. I think this was really bad diplomacy.

Here’s a question. When did he make this statement? This appears to be from the Trilateral Commission hearings. No dates are given in the DB article.

386 Killgore Trout  Apr 27, 2014 6:22:34pm

re: #384 klys

You seem to think everything is bad diplomacy, these days, regardless of context.

Just an observation.

It’s hard to find many wins these days. Assad is still gassing Syria, Putin is still taking over Ukraine and the Iranians are keeping their nuclear program. Why the White house decides to play hardball with the Israelis is beyond me.

387 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Apr 27, 2014 6:23:04pm

re: #382 Killgore Trout

The only people that are going to be really happy are Max Blementhal, MJ Rosenberg, Mondowiess, et al. I think this was really bad diplomacy.

What’s really shitty about your position on this is that it elevates style over substance, the thing you pretend to decry all the time. The statement Kerry made is a true one, and a valid one. The problematic statement, the one that gets said by people at Mondoweiss, is not the one Kerry said, but the completely different statement that Israel is currently an apartheid state.

The problem isn’t using “Israel” and “Apartheid” in the same paragraph, it’s when you say “Israel is enacting apartheid on the Palestinians!” or “What the Palestinians undergo is apartheid”. Trying to claim that what Kerry said—a conditional about a possible future, which has been echoed by Israelis, for the purpose of underscoring how undesirable that future is to all (sane) parties—is the same as what people like Rosenberg say is incredibly destructive to the conversation.

388 Killgore Trout  Apr 27, 2014 6:25:48pm

re: #385 Gus

Here’s a question. When did he make this statement? This appears to be from the Trilateral Commission hearings. No dates are given in the DB article.

According to this quack site they met recently
americanfreepress.net

The main event as April winds up is the Annual Meeting of the highly-influential Trilateral Commission (TC) Friday, April 25 through Sunday, April 27 at the Mandarin Oriental hotel along the Potomac River

.

389 Stanley Sea  Apr 27, 2014 6:27:08pm

re: #388 Killgore Trout

Oh, preface with this quack site.

Your reputation which I never worshiped, is a total joke.

Research?

390 Killgore Trout  Apr 27, 2014 6:27:17pm

Jpost says the comment was made Friday
jpost.com

391 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Apr 27, 2014 6:27:26pm

re: #388 Killgore Trout

Do you think a one-state solution is possible without Israel either disappearing as a Jewish state, or the enactment of apartheid?

I know you just dodge all my questions, but this one is pretty pertinent.

392 Gus  Apr 27, 2014 6:30:51pm

re: #388 Killgore Trout

According to this quack site they met recently
americanfreepress.net

.

Yeah, last Friday apparently. I don’t know. Olmert and Barak said about the same thing. This was a closed door meeting and not a diplomatic event nor communication. It may have been awkward but there’s nothing to see here. Netanyahu is free to get pissed off about this but there’s not much else that can be done here. Kerry will certainly not be released because of this. It’s essentially RW shiny object for the most part. For it’s part, some Israeli officials have said some rather objectionable things about this administration. We’ll call it even. And once again.

If the day comes when the two-state solution collapses, and we face a South African-style struggle for equal voting rights (also for the Palestinians in the territories), then, as soon as that happens, the State of Israel is finished.
— Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert (2007)

“As long as in this territory west of the Jordan river there is only one political entity called Israel it is going to be either non-Jewish, or non-democratic,” Barak said. “If this bloc of millions of ­Palestinians cannot vote, that will be an apartheid state.”
— Israeli Defense Minister Ehud Barak (2010)

393 klys  Apr 27, 2014 6:31:35pm

re: #392 Gus

You’re still not clutching your pearls, Gus.

Time to get with the program.

////

394 Gus  Apr 27, 2014 6:31:54pm

A closed door meeting at the Trilateral Commission is not a diplomatic event. What Kerry said was not an official statement from the State Department nor the White House.

395 Gus  Apr 27, 2014 6:32:22pm

re: #393 klys

You’re still not clutching your pearls, Gus.

Time to get with the program.

////

I’m shilling for Kerry! :D

396 klys  Apr 27, 2014 6:33:33pm

re: #395 Gus

I’m shilling for Kerry! :D

Man, that was the first election I was old enough to vote in. (Shush.)

The ballot for my county was stupidly deceptive. If you filled out the bar next to Kerry’s name, it actually was the one for Bush. No lie. No photo, because I didn’t have a camera phone then.

I remember filling it out in calculus.

397 Killgore Trout  Apr 27, 2014 6:34:06pm

re: #392 Gus

No, I seriously doubt Obama will throw Kerry under the bus. I’m just at a loss to explain why the White House thought this was a good idea. Terrible diplomacy.

398 Charles Johnson  Apr 27, 2014 6:35:23pm

re: #381 Killgore Trout

Meh.

399 Gus  Apr 27, 2014 6:36:02pm

re: #397 Killgore Trout

No, I seriously doubt Obama will throw Kerry under the bus. I’m just at a loss to explain why the White House thought this was a good idea. Terrible diplomacy.

Not the White House. John Kerry. I wouldn’t be surprised if Obama disagrees with Kerry’s use of the word, apartheid.

400 Stanley Sea  Apr 27, 2014 6:36:06pm

re: #397 Killgore Trout

No, I seriously doubt Obama will throw Kerry under the bus. I’m just at a loss to explain why the White House thought this was a good idea. Terrible diplomacy.

what? Explain KT.

401 Gus  Apr 27, 2014 6:36:52pm

re: #398 Charles Johnson

Meh.

I think Israel is pissed off enough already of the coalition between Fatah and Hamas. Including the White House.

402 klys  Apr 27, 2014 6:36:57pm

re: #397 Killgore Trout

THIS THREAD IS SUCH A BITCH TO THREAD IN THE NEEDLE. WHAT WAS THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION THINKING?

THANKS OBAMA.

403 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Apr 27, 2014 6:37:25pm

re: #397 Killgore Trout

No, I seriously doubt Obama will throw Kerry under the bus. I’m just at a loss to explain why the White House thought this was a good idea. Terrible diplomacy.

Do you think a one-state solution is possible without Israel either disappearing as a Jewish state, or the enactment of apartheid?

I know you just dodge all my questions, but this one is pretty pertinent.

404 Stanley Sea  Apr 27, 2014 6:37:45pm

re: #401 Gus

I think Israel is pissed off enough already of the coalition between Fatah and Hamas. Including the White House.

The RW Israel and it’s RW fanatics in my mind was looking for a reason to cancel. done and done.

love our world.

405 klys  Apr 27, 2014 6:37:55pm

re: #403 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

Do you think a one-state solution is possible without Israel either disappearing as a Jewish state, or the enactment of apartheid?

I know you just dodge all my questions, but this one is pretty pertinent.

POTATO.

There, I answered it for him?

//

406 Killgore Trout  Apr 27, 2014 6:38:57pm

re: #399 Gus

Not the White House. John Kerry. I wouldn’t be surprised if Obama disagrees with Kerry’s use of the word, apartheid.

Kerry’s not stupid. You and I know enough that the word is politically charged, Kerry knows it too. I would hope he’s not stupid enough to use the word without approval from his boss. I don’t think this was an accident.

407 Varek Raith  Apr 27, 2014 6:39:07pm

re: #391 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

Do you think a one-state solution is possible without Israel either disappearing as a Jewish state, or the enactment of apartheid?

I know you just dodge all my questions, but this one is pretty pertinent.

Bueller?

408 Gus  Apr 27, 2014 6:39:26pm

re: #404 Stanley Sea

Israel in my mind was looking for a reason to cancel. done and done.

love our world.

One could also say the same of the PA/Gaza. I know I’m cynical but I’m still hopeful. Hamas could revise their charter and Israel can leave the West Bank. I thought we all agreed on 1967 borders?

409 Killgore Trout  Apr 27, 2014 6:40:07pm

re: #401 Gus

I think Israel is pissed off enough already of the coalition between Fatah and Hamas. Including the White House.

…and the Iranian nuclear program too. I see no need to insult them further, it’s unhelpful.

410 Gus  Apr 27, 2014 6:41:01pm

re: #406 Killgore Trout

Kerry’s not stupid. You and I know enough that the word is politically charged, Kerry knows it too. I would hope he’s not stupid enough to use the word without approval from his boss. I don’t think this was an accident.

He’s not stupid. And neither are Olmert and Barak who made similar statements. No one, or very few, agree that a one-state solution would be a good thing.

411 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Apr 27, 2014 6:41:49pm

re: #404 Stanley Sea

Israel in my mind was looking for a reason to cancel. done and done.

love our world.

Every time I get overly depressed about Israel and Palestine, I remember that The Troubles seemed insoluble when I was a kid. It had been going on forever, and it was the continuation of a much older beef between the Irish and the British—some of the British, anyway—and between Protestants and Catholics. But that came to an end.

However, there’s plenty of bad endings, too. But there are possible good ones.

412 Gus  Apr 27, 2014 6:42:06pm

re: #409 Killgore Trout

…and the Iranian nuclear program too. I see no need to insult them further, it’s unhelpful.

Meh. In the end they know we have their back.

413 kirkspencer  Apr 27, 2014 6:42:26pm

re: #406 Killgore Trout

Kerry’s not stupid. You and I know enough that the word is politically charged, Kerry knows it too. I would hope he’s not stupid enough to use the word without approval from his boss. I don’t think this was an accident.

Apparently you think diplomacy is done solely with soft voices and gentle words.

No.

Sometimes yes, but you have to use the hard stuff too.

Yes, it’s emotionally charged. It’s scary and ugly, and so it makes an excellent attention grabber:

“Your choice is between fixing this or hell. So tell me, how do you plan to avoid hell?

414 Varek Raith  Apr 27, 2014 6:42:30pm

Argle bargle!

415 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Apr 27, 2014 6:42:54pm

re: #406 Killgore Trout

Kerry’s not stupid. You and I know enough that the word is politically charged, Kerry knows it too. I would hope he’s not stupid enough to use the word without approval from his boss. I don’t think this was an accident.

The word is politically charged, and that’s why Kerry’s statement very clearly says apartheid is a state that Israel doesn’t want.

So saying Israel is anti-apartheid is now a disastrous diplomatic mistake. Weee!

416 klys  Apr 27, 2014 6:43:00pm

re: #410 Gus

He’s not stupid. And neither are Olmert and Barak who made similar statements. No one, or very few, agree that a one-state solution would be a good thing.

To acknowledge that is to acknowledge the context in which the remark was made, which is to say discussing a one-state solution, and not the current reality. And where that might be a realistic word to use, here in reality-land, as opposed to outrage-land.

417 Gus  Apr 27, 2014 6:44:26pm

re: #415 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

The word is politically charged, and that’s why Kerry’s statement very clearly says apartheid is a state that Israel doesn’t want.

So saying Israel is anti-apartheid is now a disastrous diplomatic mistake. Weee!

“A two-state solution will be clearly underscored as the only real alternative. Because a unitary state winds up either being an apartheid state with second class citizens—or it ends up being a state that destroys the capacity of Israel to be a Jewish state…once you put that frame in your mind, that reality, which is the bottom line, you understand how imperative it is to get to the two state solution, which both leaders, even yesterday, said they remain deeply committed to.”

418 Gus  Apr 27, 2014 6:45:05pm

…how imperative it is to get to the two state solution, which both leaders, even yesterday, said they remain deeply committed to…

419 Gus  Apr 27, 2014 6:45:26pm

I think it’s obvious that he’s answering a question. This has more hidden context.

420 klys  Apr 27, 2014 6:45:58pm

re: #417 Gus

I admire your attempts. You’re the one person who might make it through.

The rest of us are just making noise as far as that’s concerned but hey. I’m good at noise.

421 Gus  Apr 27, 2014 6:46:40pm

The counter argument to apartheid in a one-state is the genocide of Israeli Jewry in a single unitary state.

422 Gus  Apr 27, 2014 6:48:04pm

I was in a state of unicornian euphoria once here at LGF and mentioned support for a one-state solution. Boy did I get nailed to the wall.

423 Killgore Trout  Apr 27, 2014 6:50:38pm

re: #413 kirkspencer

Apparently you think diplomacy is done solely with soft voices and gentle words.

No.

Sometimes yes, but you have to use the hard stuff too.

Yes, it’s emotionally charged. It’s scary and ugly, and so it makes an excellent attention grabber:

“Your choice is between fixing this or hell. So tell me, how do you plan to avoid hell?

Why reserve hardball insults for the Israelis? I still have yet to see why this is helpful. We haven’t seen similar harsh words to our enemies.

424 kirkspencer  Apr 27, 2014 6:50:49pm

re: #421 Gus

The counter argument to apartheid in a one-state is the genocide of Israeli Jewry in a single unitary state.

No. Oh, likely, but not what was said and not the whole truth.

the options are apartheid or the elimination of Israel as a Jewish state. That elimination can come in two forms: first, and at this time more likely, is your genocide scenario. Second, less likely but still possible, is an irreligious state with no religion having ascendency or authority.

425 kirkspencer  Apr 27, 2014 6:53:10pm

re: #423 Killgore Trout

Why reserve hardball insults for the Israelis? I still have yet to see why this is helpful. We haven’t seen similar harsh words to our enemies.

Who the crap said he reserved hardball insults for the Israelis? Who says he didn’t have hardball lines for the Palestinians?

We don’t have full transcript, so we don’t know.

426 Varek Raith  Apr 27, 2014 6:54:03pm

How low will he go…

427 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Apr 27, 2014 7:00:17pm

re: #423 Killgore Trout

Why reserve hardball insults for the Israelis? I still have yet to see why this is helpful. We haven’t seen similar harsh words to our enemies.

There was no hardball insult given to the Israelis, instead, the truth that apartheid is something the Israelis don’t want was acknowledged.

428 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Apr 27, 2014 7:13:17pm

re: #424 kirkspencer

No. Oh, likely, but not what was said and not the whole truth.

the options are apartheid or the elimination of Israel as a Jewish state. That elimination can come in two forms: first, and at this time more likely, is your genocide scenario. Second, less likely but still possible, is an irreligious state with no religion having ascendency or authority.

It’s not just religion, though. That’s not the extant of what’s meant by a Jewish state. It means it was a state created by and for the Jewish people, who had faced persecution all over the world—it’s important to remember Israel was an idea and a goal pre-WWII: Jews were not welcome, and they knew it, in most parts of the world. The US, remember, refused lots of Jewish immigrants. That’s the history of Israel, that its creation was a reaction to this persecution. This doesn’t equate to the idea that Jews should get special privileges in Israel, but it does mean that the “Jewish” nature of Israel is important because Jews still face many nations on earth that are directly hostile to Jews—and have been since before the creation of modern Israel.

My grandfather was against the creation of Israel because of where it was, but he supported the idea of the creation of a Jewish state. He thought it was a terrible mistake situating the new Jewish state in the midst of enemies, but it was already a done deal. He was briefly heartened when he saw the quick reformation of Germany and Japan into democracies, but the Middle East showed no such progress—due, in his opinion, to neocolonialism and the US and USSR using the area as a proxy-power battleground with no regard for rewarding or promoting actual good governance.

Anyway, the point is that Israel came to be in the way that it is. Just as the US would not remain the US if we started denying birthright citizenship, Israel wouldn’t be Israel without being a state committed to being a safe haven for Jews in a world that still has many areas totally hostile to them. I wouldn’t be surprised, for example, if there were current Jewish emigres from the Ukraine to Israel.

429 kirkspencer  Apr 27, 2014 7:20:03pm

re: #428 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

It’s not just religion, though. That’s not the extant of what’s meant by a Jewish state. It means it was a state created by and for the Jewish people, who had faced persecution all over the world—it’s important to remember Israel was an idea and a goal pre-WWII: Jews were not welcome, and they knew it, in most parts of the world. The US, remember, refused lots of Jewish immigrants. That’s the history of Israel, that its creation was a reaction to this persecution. This doesn’t equate to the idea that Jews should get special privileges in Israel, but it does mean that the “Jewish” nature of Israel is important because Jews still face many nations on earth that are directly hostile to Jews—and have been since before the creation of modern Israel.

My grandfather was against the creation of Israel because of where it was, but he supported the idea of the creation of a Jewish state. He thought it was a terrible mistake situating the new Jewish state in the midst of enemies, but it was already a done deal. He was briefly heartened when he saw the quick reformation of Germany and Japan into democracies, but the Middle East showed no such progress—due, in his opinion, to neocolonialism and the US and USSR using the area as a proxy-power battleground with no regard for rewarding or promoting actual good governance.

Anyway, the point is that Israel came to be in the way that it is. Just as the US would not remain the US if we started denying birthright citizenship, Israel wouldn’t be Israel without being a state committed to being a safe haven for Jews in a world that still has many areas totally hostile to them. I wouldn’t be surprised, for example, if there were current Jewish emigres from the Ukraine to Israel.

Safe haven and irreligious are not mutually exclusive - difficult, but not impossible. I think my argument stands.

430 klys  Apr 27, 2014 7:34:06pm

re: #391 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

Do you think a one-state solution is possible without Israel either disappearing as a Jewish state, or the enactment of apartheid?

I know you just dodge all my questions, but this one is pretty pertinent.

I note unanswered questions.

431 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Apr 27, 2014 7:36:51pm

re: #429 kirkspencer

Safe haven and irreligious are not mutually exclusive - difficult, but not impossible. I think my argument stands.

I’m saying your point misses the point, which is not about Judaism, but Jews.

432 kirkspencer  Apr 27, 2014 7:56:49pm

re: #431 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

I’m saying your point misses the point, which is not about Judaism, but Jews.

waitwhat?

The state of Israel makes the de facto argument that the dominant characteristic of ‘Jews’ is religion (judaism), not ethnicity. I base that on the immigration laws that give highest priority to practitioners, even recent converts, over ethnic jews who practice other religions (and in turn are of higher priority than those neither ethnically nor religiously Jews.)

While freedom of religion is granted within Israel, the religion of Judaism permeates and dominates the nation - not merely de facto as per the US, but de jure (by various laws and regulations).

I’m sorry, but the dominant issue of “it ends up being a state that destroys the capacity of Israel to be a Jewish state” is religion.

433 kirkspencer  Apr 27, 2014 8:00:26pm

crap. Obdi, I have to bail for the night. I’ll check back in (tomorrow I hope, next day if not) to continue. Peace, friend.

434 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Apr 27, 2014 8:05:20pm

re: #432 kirkspencer

waitwhat?

The state of Israel makes the de facto argument that the dominant characteristic of ‘Jews’ is religion (judaism), not ethnicity.

This isn’t true, though. There’s plenty of secular Jews who identify as Jews and are identified by others as Jews.

I base that on the immigration laws that give highest priority to practitioners, even recent converts, over ethnic jews who practice other religions (and in turn are of higher priority than those neither ethnically nor religiously Jews.)

That’s one particular narrow issue, and for some reason you’re saying that identifies the entire nation. For one thing, Jews who openly practice have a much rougher time of it than Jews who don’t, so it makes utter sense to admit them with priority. For another, purely secular Jews are granted just as much priority as religious Jews, as long as neither they nor their parents practiced another religion. It wasn’t the non-practice of Judaism that was or is the problem, but the active practice of another religion—this stems from a wave of Polish Catholic immigrants with Jewish ancestry in the 1960s, who were being persecuted in Poland, but who were culturally almost totally Polish-assimilated.

I’m sorry, but the dominant issue of “it ends up being a state that destroys the capacity of Israel to be a Jewish state” is religion.

It’s really not, though. Israel could be a culturally Jewish state without being a religious Jewish one. It couldn’t possibly be the reverse.

435 subterraneanhomesickalien  Apr 27, 2014 9:48:33pm

It appears that the language parsing, professionally offended shit sacks are going to get John Kerry to most likely walk back any and all language that could possibly describe the reality of the Israeli/Palestinian divide.

Other than religious extremism, these kinds of people are probably the second biggest obstacle to finding any kind of solution in that part of the world.

I’ll call it the Bobo faction. And they can all kindly go piss up a rope.

436 kirkspencer  Apr 28, 2014 7:26:40am

re: #434 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

This isn’t true, though. There’s plenty of secular Jews who identify as Jews and are identified by others as Jews.

That’s one particular narrow issue, and for some reason you’re saying that identifies the entire nation. For one thing, Jews who openly practice have a much rougher time of it than Jews who don’t, so it makes utter sense to admit them with priority. For another, purely secular Jews are granted just as much priority as religious Jews, as long as neither they nor their parents practiced another religion. It wasn’t the non-practice of Judaism that was or is the problem, but the active practice of another religion—this stems from a wave of Polish Catholic immigrants with Jewish ancestry in the 1960s, who were being persecuted in Poland, but who were culturally almost totally Polish-assimilated.

It’s really not, though. Israel could be a culturally Jewish state without being a religious Jewish one. It couldn’t possibly be the reverse.

I see your point, but I still don’t think it negates my original and prime point.

Let me see if I can rephrase so you understand the essence of my argument. Can Israel still be a Jewish state with a US first amendment’s intent: a wall between temple and state? In my opinion, no.

437 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Apr 28, 2014 10:04:18am

re: #436 kirkspencer

Let me see if I can rephrase so you understand the essence of my argument. Can Israel still be a Jewish state with a US first amendment’s intent: a wall between temple and state? In my opinion, no.

In my opinion, not only definitely yes, it was intended to become that by its founders.


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