Reports: Oklahoma Horribly Botches Execution

Medical experimentation
US News • Views: 19,632

The details coming out of Oklahoma about the botched execution of inmate Clayton Lockett are barbaric.

McALESTER, Okla. (AP) — The director of the Oklahoma Department of Corrections says an inmate whose execution was halted because the delivery of a new drug combination was botched has died of a heart attack.

Director Robert Patton says inmate Clayton Lockett died Tuesday after all three drugs were administered.

Patton halted Lockett’s execution about 20 minutes after the first drug was administered. He says there was a vein failure.

Lockett was writhing on the gurney and shaking uncontrollably.

The AP story was very obviously rushed out, so we should probably apply the 24-hour rule here. But clearly, something went very wrong tonight in McAlester, Oklahoma.

And this should be a wake-up call for anyone who still supports our broken capital punishment system.

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578 comments
1 klys  Apr 29, 2014 5:48:00pm

If the drugs are supposed to be fatal, how can you halt the execution once all three have been administered?

2 Kragar  Apr 29, 2014 5:48:59pm

I believe there are crimes for which death should be the penalty.

I also think the state has the obligation to make sure its done quickly and humanely.

This is just atrocious.

3 Gus  Apr 29, 2014 5:49:57pm
4 prairiefire  Apr 29, 2014 5:50:02pm

This crosses the line of justice into cruelty.

5 Lidane  Apr 29, 2014 5:50:57pm

I despise the death penalty although I understand that there are some crimes that are so far beyond the pale that death is too good for the person who committed them.

I also think if you’re going to execute someone, make it quick. A bullet in the head would have done this guy more favors than what happened tonight.

6 Pie-onist Overlord  Apr 29, 2014 5:51:39pm

ASSHOLE==>

7 lawhawk  Apr 29, 2014 5:52:17pm

re: #2 Kragar

I believe there are crimes for which death should be the penalty.

I also think the state has the obligation to make sure its done quickly and humanely.

This is just atrocious.

And that the person is indeed guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. When there are failures at each step of the process, one cannot and should not consider the death penalty as an appropriate sentence.

Add to all that the fact that putting someone on death row costs more than life without parole. Between the higher legal costs, and higher costs of incarceration on those locked up in death row, it costs the state more for a death penalty situation.

8 klys  Apr 29, 2014 5:52:19pm

re: #6 Pie-onist Overlord

Once again, proving that the Constitution only matters when they want it to.

9 wrenchwench  Apr 29, 2014 5:52:24pm

There may be criminals who deserve death, but better to imprison them for life than to participate in killing. The chance of killing the wrong person, or of botching the killing as in this case makes the death penalty untenable.

10 Varek Raith  Apr 29, 2014 5:52:47pm

re: #6 Pie-onist Overlord

ASSHOLE==>

[Embedded content]

He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you.

-Nietzsche

11 William Barnett-Lewis  Apr 29, 2014 5:52:55pm

So much for the 8th Amendment. Oklahoma has shown how little it really means to America.

12 lawhawk  Apr 29, 2014 5:53:39pm

The 8th Amendment still means something. This appears to have crossed the line into cruel and unusual punishment.

13 Backwoods_Sleuth  Apr 29, 2014 5:53:58pm
14 Pie-onist Overlord  Apr 29, 2014 5:54:06pm

re: #8 klys

Once again, proving that the Constitution only matters when they want it to.

Erick thinks they should be raped to death by hyenas, on PPV.

15 Lidane  Apr 29, 2014 5:55:08pm

re: #8 klys

Once again, proving that the Constitution only matters when they want it to.

That’s a feature, not a bug.

Conservatives are as selective about the Constitution as they are the Bible.

16 Mattand  Apr 29, 2014 5:55:29pm

Remember how the US murder and crime rate has plummeted since we reinstituted the death penalty?

Wait, what?

17 William Barnett-Lewis  Apr 29, 2014 5:56:05pm

re: #12 lawhawk

The 8th Amendment still means something. This appears to have crossed the line into cruel and unusual punishment.

So? No one will be held accountable. And even if someone tried to the Roberts court will side with OK to protect the guilty.

18 Gus  Apr 29, 2014 5:56:13pm

Predictably, the wingnuts haz angry at Jeffrey Goldberg.

19 Mattand  Apr 29, 2014 5:56:25pm

re: #15 Lidane

That’s a feature, not a bug.

Conservatives are as selective about the Constitution as they are the Bible.

THEY’RE ONE AND THE SAME, HEATHEN COMMIE!!!!!!

20 Skip Intro  Apr 29, 2014 5:57:04pm

re: #6 Pie-onist Overlord

ASSHOLE==>

[Embedded content]

Why not stoning? It’s biblical, and douche nozzles like Eric think that’s the only thing that law should be based on.

21 William Barnett-Lewis  Apr 29, 2014 5:57:24pm

re: #16 Mattand

Remember how the US murder and crime rate has plummeted since we reinstituted the death penalty?

Wait, what?

Crime rates are actually dropping. More evidence that it’s from shifting to lead free gas than CCW or the death penalty though…

22 Major Tom  Apr 29, 2014 5:57:59pm

Reminds me of a scene in the Tudors when Thomas More advises the king that the burnings at the stake were all done well. As if there is a right way to torture a person to death, and a way that is beyond the pale. I, personally, think we’re splitting hairs here.

23 Pie-onist Overlord  Apr 29, 2014 5:58:25pm

re: #20 Skip Intro

Why not stoning? It’s biblical, and douche nozzles like Eric think that’s the only thing that law should be based on.

Smoking a giant lethal doobie wouldn’t be a bad way to go.

24 Kragar  Apr 29, 2014 5:58:39pm
25 Charles Johnson  Apr 29, 2014 5:58:50pm
26 Skip Intro  Apr 29, 2014 5:59:06pm

re: #23 Pie-onist Overlord

Smoking a giant lethal doobie wouldn’t be a bad way to go.

Says you.

27 RealityBasedSteve  Apr 29, 2014 5:59:08pm

re: #23 Pie-onist Overlord

Smoking a giant lethal doobie wouldn’t be a bad way to go.

I’d chose death by snu-snu.

RBS

28 Gus  Apr 29, 2014 5:59:26pm
29 Gus  Apr 29, 2014 5:59:49pm
30 lawhawk  Apr 29, 2014 6:00:04pm

The men scheduled to die by lethal injection tonight, Clayton Lockett, left, and Charles Warner had tried to compel the state to identify the drugs that the state was going to use in the executions.

They lost their appeals.

Now, we might find out due to further lawsuits and/or Lockett’s autopsy results.*

Timeline:

NewsChannel 4′s Courtney Francisco was a witness to the scheduled execution, she provided the following time line:
6:23 PM - Prison officials raise the blinds. Execution begins.
6:28 PM - Inmate shivering, sheet shaking. Breathing deep.
6:29 PM - Inmate blinking and gritting his teeth. Adjusts his head.
6:30 PM - Prison officials check to see if inmate is unconscious. Doctor says “He’s not unconscious”. Inmate says “I’m not.” Female prison official says, “Mr. Lockett is not unconscious.”
6:32 PM - Inmate’s breathing is normal, mouth open, eyes shut. For a second time, prison officials check to see if inmate is unconscious.
6:33 PM - Doctor says, “He is unconscious”. Prison official says “Mr. Lockett is unconscious.”
6:34 PM - Inmate’s mouth twitches. No sign of breathing.
6:35 PM - Mouth movement.
6:36 PM - Inmate’s head moves from side to side, then lifts his head off the bed.
6:37 PM - Inmate lifts his head and feet slightly off the bed. Inmate tries to say something, mumbles while moving body.
6:38 pm - More movement by the inmate. At this point the inmate is breathing heavily and appears to be struggling.
6:39 PM - Inmate tries to talk. Says “Man” and appears to be trying to get up. Doctor checks on inmate. Female prison official says, “We are going to lower the blinds temporarily”. Prison phone rings. Director of Prisons, Robert Patton answers the phone and leaves the room - taking three state officials with him.
Minutes later - The Director Of Prisons comes back into the room and tells the eyewitnesses that there has been a vein failure. He says, “The chemical did not make it into the vein of the prisoner. Under my authority, we are issuing a stay of execution.”

He was pronounced dead at the hospital at 7:06PM.

Warner’s execution has been pushed back by 2 weeks.

*The drugs identified in the report:

Department Of Corrections Spokesperson Jerry Massie said the drugs that will be used are midazolam (creates drowsiness, anxiety), vecuronium bromide (muscle relaxer), and potassium chloride (stops heart).

31 Skip Intro  Apr 29, 2014 6:00:09pm

re: #24 Kragar

[Embedded content]

There is only one amendment. The other ones are libturd traps to fool people.

32 teleskiguy  Apr 29, 2014 6:01:16pm
33 Stanley Sea  Apr 29, 2014 6:01:56pm
34 Gus  Apr 29, 2014 6:01:59pm
35 wrenchwench  Apr 29, 2014 6:02:00pm

re: #23 Pie-onist Overlord

Smoking a giant lethal doobie wouldn’t be a bad way to go.

That would take a very long time, too. They haven’t found the lethal dose yet.

36 Major Tom  Apr 29, 2014 6:02:05pm

re: #30 lawhawk

chilling

37 Skip Intro  Apr 29, 2014 6:03:08pm

re: #35 wrenchwench

That would take a very long time, too. They haven’t found the lethal dose yet.

I’d be willing to volunteer to find out when the time is right.

38 The Ghost of a Flea  Apr 29, 2014 6:03:34pm

Charles, Mojo did a longer piece on the preamble issues to this situation.

I’m horrified that they went through with it. There is no “he deserved it” for a prolonged, painful death, any more than there is for assault and rape while incarcerated. We’re not running some kind of state-certified revenge system.

39 GeneJockey  Apr 29, 2014 6:04:00pm

re: #34 Gus

[Embedded content]

There’s punishment, and then there’s vengeance. The State should not be in the vengeance business.

40 The Mountain That Blogs  Apr 29, 2014 6:04:10pm

re: #1 klys

Was wondering about that. The three drugs used were Versed (makes you drowsy and calm, often used for sedation), vecuronium (paralyzes you), and KCl (stops your heart). Obviously the first two weren’t working very well, but enough of the KCl must have gotten in. When they say he died of a massive heart attack, they probably mean cardiac arrest from the KCl, which is what it’s supposed to do.

41 Gus  Apr 29, 2014 6:05:18pm

Hey look! The CSA.

42 teleskiguy  Apr 29, 2014 6:05:52pm
43 GeneJockey  Apr 29, 2014 6:06:13pm

re: #35 wrenchwench

That would take a very long time, too. They haven’t found the lethal dose yet.

The LD50 will be defined by the size of bale that kills 50% of the rats when dropped on them. (H/T to some other Lizard, I forget who)

44 wrenchwench  Apr 29, 2014 6:06:17pm

re: #38 The Ghost of a Flea

Charles, Mojo did a longer piece on the preamble issues to this situation.

I’m horrified that they went through with it. There is no “he deserved it” for a prolonged, painful death, any more than there is for assault and rape while incarcerated. We’re not running some kind of state-certified revenge system.

From the link:

“It is an experiment, and I don’t think anybody is absolutely certain what will happen in Oklahoma,” says Richard Dieter, executive director of the Death Penalty Information Center. Dieter adds that we’ll never know whether the drugs worked properly or caused needlessly painful deaths because the people who could tell us will be dead.

Well, we may not know everything, but I think we know enough.

45 Mattand  Apr 29, 2014 6:07:50pm
46 b.d.  Apr 29, 2014 6:08:36pm

How cruel and unusual can you get?

47 GeneJockey  Apr 29, 2014 6:09:32pm

re: #46 b.d.

How cruel and unusual can you get?

Careful. Texas, Mississippi, Alabama, and Oklahoma will think it’s a competition.

48 Lidane  Apr 29, 2014 6:10:57pm

I eagerly await Greg Abbott and the other Texas GOP assholes to introduce a bill calling for execution by a bullet to the back of the head.

49 Kragar  Apr 29, 2014 6:11:10pm
50 b.d.  Apr 29, 2014 6:12:16pm

re: #48 Lidane

I eagerly await Greg Abbott and the other Texas GOP assholes to introduce a bill calling for execution by a bullet to the back of the head.

and to make sure that they charge the guy for it too.

51 Targetpractice  Apr 29, 2014 6:12:56pm

re: #38 The Ghost of a Flea

Charles, Mojo did a longer piece on the preamble issues to this situation.

I’m horrified that they went through with it. There is no “he deserved it” for a prolonged, painful death, any more than there is for assault and rape while incarcerated. We’re not running some kind of state-certified revenge system.

You’re thinking about it humanely, which is obviously not the motivation behind a lot of those who still support capital punishment and are responding to this debacle with sneers about how he “got it better” than his victim.

52 The Mountain That Blogs  Apr 29, 2014 6:13:53pm

re: #46 b.d.

How cruel and unusual can you get?

KCl on awake people is up there. That shit burns. And then it stops your heart.

53 GeneJockey  Apr 29, 2014 6:14:25pm

re: #49 Kragar

[Embedded content]

The older boy leaves snarky comments on FB posts from a couple Conservative pages, so they appear in my feed. When Obama was meeting Pope Francis last month, a lot of wingnuts were talking about how Francis should smack Obama, presumably because of Abortion. Of course, they conveniently ignored the Pope’s stand on capital punishment, war, and economic inequality in their rush to declare him an ally.

I think they were sorely disappointed.

54 Shiplord Kirel  Apr 29, 2014 6:14:33pm

I’ll say it plainly, the man was tortured to death over an agonizing half hour. Trampling with elephants would probably have been more humane and at least a lot faster. This never ending search for “humane” and “painless” execution methods has long since reached the point of absurdity. It is a sinister farce that serves no purpose but to assuage the collective conscience of the state sanctioned killers and deny the real nature of the event by surrounding it with an antiseptic, pseudo-clinical atmosphere. Either abolish the death penalty or bring in the guillotine or a bullet to the back of the head. Ironically, either of those messy and singularly gruesome methods would probably be more humane than what this guy went through.
The guillotine could be equipped with 13 lanyards, one for the sentencing judge and each juror, and rigged so all would be have to be pulled for the blade to fall. If jurors and judges are not willing to stand there and lop off the guy’s head themselves, they shouldn’t vote for the death penalty.

55 Gus  Apr 29, 2014 6:14:52pm

[Vomit]

56 dog philosopher  Apr 29, 2014 6:15:06pm

for capital crimes, i’m never sure whether a lifetime in prison or execution is the bigger punishement

some people really just wanna die, and then other people seem to thrive and even enjoy themselves in the pen

in any case, it is curious that we have such a high percentage of citizens in incarceration compared to other countries

57 b.d.  Apr 29, 2014 6:15:35pm
Mary Fallin (born December 9, 1954) is an American politician who is the 27th and current Governor of Oklahoma. A member of the Republican Party, Fallin was elected Governor in 2010 and is the current Chairsperson of the National Governors Association.

en.wikipedia.org

58 Shiplord Kirel  Apr 29, 2014 6:16:55pm

re: #48 Lidane

I eagerly await Greg Abbott and the other Texas GOP assholes to introduce a bill calling for execution by a bullet to the back of the head.

It would be an improvement. I would approve if Abbott himself had to pull the trigger.

59 GeneJockey  Apr 29, 2014 6:17:08pm

re: #56 dog philosopher

for capital crimes, i’m never sure whether a lifetime in prison or execution is the bigger punishement

some people really just wanna die, and then other people seem to thrive and even enjoy themselves in the pen

in any case, it is curious that we have such a high percentage of citizens in incarceration compared to other countries

And higher murder rates than most other countries, too. Capital Punishment sure deters murder.
///

60 Backwoods_Sleuth  Apr 29, 2014 6:17:12pm
61 RealityBasedSteve  Apr 29, 2014 6:17:17pm

re: #54 Shiplord Kirel

If jurors and judges are not willing to stand there and lop off the guy’s head themselves, they shouldn’t vote for the death penalty.

“The man who passes the sentence should swing the sword. If you would take a man’s life, you owe it to him to look into his eyes and hear his final words. And if you cannot bear to do that, then perhaps the man does not deserve to die.”

― George R.R. Martin, A Game of Thrones

RBS

62 TedStriker  Apr 29, 2014 6:18:37pm

re: #48 Lidane

I eagerly await Greg Abbott and the other Texas GOP assholes to introduce a bill calling for execution by a bullet to the back of the head.

And billing the inmate’s family not only for the cost of the burial, but for the cost of the bullet.

The (supposed) solution of the Communist Chinese for at least 50 years.

63 Gus  Apr 29, 2014 6:18:41pm

Don’t criticize Oklahoma because if you do you’re an anti-Oklahoma bigot!

64 teleskiguy  Apr 29, 2014 6:19:32pm

re: #54 Shiplord Kirel

Hey Shiplord! You nailed it with this comment. I shared on my Twitter.

65 Gus  Apr 29, 2014 6:19:47pm
66 bratwurst  Apr 29, 2014 6:20:27pm

Packing up here to fly to Istanbul tomorrow. Only ever been to the airport there (changing planes between Germany and Israel) so excited to cover some new territory. On the other hand, in my extensive travels (some 30 countries so far), I have never been someplace where the tear gas is flying with such regularity…and the government is bound and determined to block Twitter. There is also the fact that the popularity of Americans has dropped precipitously, and a visa requirement has been instated since I originally committed to the (academic) event I am attending. I will be speaking German instead of English and hoping for the best!

67 klys  Apr 29, 2014 6:20:52pm

re: #66 bratwurst

Safe travels!

68 Political Atheist  Apr 29, 2014 6:21:52pm

re: #23 Pie-onist Overlord

Smoking a giant lethal doobie wouldn’t be a bad way to go.

You make an excellent point. If we must do this (and I find myself wishing we would just not) Why not a general anesthetic. Just like surgery. Then a quick zap with the cardio paddles and it’s light out, no pain, no convulsions.

That having been said if we perfect a way of painless killing, will we set the stage for too many executions? Let’s just ditch the death penalty. Accept that from time to time a really horrible person will make us wish we had not. That’s okay.

69 Shiplord Kirel  Apr 29, 2014 6:21:57pm

re: #64 teleskiguy

Hey Shiplord! You nailed it with this comment. I shared on my Twitter.

[Embedded content]

Many, many thanks. I can see the RWNJ response now: “Bloodthirsty liberals advocate guillotine!”

70 CuriousLurker  Apr 29, 2014 6:24:14pm

re: #66 bratwurst

Packing up here to fly to Istanbul tomorrow. Only ever been to the airport there (changing planes between Germany and Israel) so excited to cover some news territory. On the other hand, in my extensive travels (some 30 countries so far), I have never been someplace where the tear gas is flying with such regularity…and the government is bound and determined to block Twitter. There is also the fact that the popularity of Americans has dropped precipitously, and a visa requirement has been instated since I originally committed to the (academic) event I am attending. I will be speaking German instead of English and hoping for the best!

Bon voyage! Drop us a few quick lines after you arrive, if possible, and let us know when you get back home.

Oh, and PHOTOS! ;)

71 Gus  Apr 29, 2014 6:25:11pm

1 hour ago. So weird.

72 RealityBasedSteve  Apr 29, 2014 6:25:23pm

re: #66 bratwurst

Don’t forget your official Lee Greenwood Travel Jacket….

73 Kragar  Apr 29, 2014 6:26:45pm
74 RealityBasedSteve  Apr 29, 2014 6:26:54pm

re: #69 Shiplord Kirel

Many, many thanks. I can see the RWNJ response now: “Bloodthirsty liberals advocate guillotine!”

Wait…. wasn’t that an Infowars / BeforeItsNews / Right Wing SuperCrazy meme that Homeland Security had hundreds of guillotines in warehouses across the country ready for use?

RBS

75 Gus  Apr 29, 2014 6:27:31pm
76 klys  Apr 29, 2014 6:27:57pm

re: #74 RealityBasedSteve

Wait…. wasn’t that an Infowars / BeforeItsNews / Right Wing SuperCrazy meme that Homeland Security had hundreds of guillotines in warehouses across the country ready for use?

RBS

I thought those were coffins. Or body bags?

Keeping track of all the crazy is getting to be impossible. They’re going to start breeding and coming up with conspiracy bunnies soon.

77 Backwoods_Sleuth  Apr 29, 2014 6:29:04pm

re: #74 RealityBasedSteve

Wait…. wasn’t that an Infowars / BeforeItsNews / Right Wing SuperCrazy meme that Homeland Security had hundreds of guillotines in warehouses across the country ready for use?

RBS

Yep. Google “guillotine warehouses” and you get links to FreeRepublic and other wingnut sites.

78 TedStriker  Apr 29, 2014 6:29:06pm

re: #72 RealityBasedSteve

Don’t forget your official Lee Greenwood Travel Jacket….

[Embedded image]

Is it just me or has Lee Greenwood morphed into Les Gold?

79 CuriousLurker  Apr 29, 2014 6:29:23pm

re: #55 Gus

[Embedded content]

[Vomit]

Asshole, WTF does Goldberg being Jewish have to do with anything?

80 TedStriker  Apr 29, 2014 6:29:25pm

re: #74 RealityBasedSteve

Wait…. wasn’t that an Infowars / BeforeItsNews / Right Wing SuperCrazy meme that Homeland Security had hundreds of guillotines in warehouses across the country ready for use?

RBS

Indeed it was, IIRC.

81 teleskiguy  Apr 29, 2014 6:29:37pm

I may be paraphrasing this quote, I don’t know. And who I’m attributing it to sure as shit doesn’t give a fuck. So…

I’m against the death penalty because what if they get the wrong guy? And what if that guy happens to be me?

-Jello Biafra

82 b.d.  Apr 29, 2014 6:30:55pm

re: #72 RealityBasedSteve

Don’t forget your official Lee Greenwood Travel Jacket….

[Embedded image]

That’s mean. bratwurst should wear this:

so people think he is a Canadian.

83 Stanley Sea  Apr 29, 2014 6:31:00pm

re: #66 bratwurst

Packing up here to fly to Istanbul tomorrow. Only ever been to the airport there (changing planes between Germany and Israel) so excited to cover some news territory. On the other hand, in my extensive travels (some 30 countries so far), I have never been someplace where the tear gas is flying with such regularity…and the government is bound and determined to block Twitter. There is also the fact that the popularity of Americans has dropped precipitously, and a visa requirement has been instated since I originally committed to the (academic) event I am attending. I will be speaking German instead of English and hoping for the best!

Have a wonderful time!!!

84 Backwoods_Sleuth  Apr 29, 2014 6:31:24pm

She knows shit has hit the fan.

85 RealityBasedSteve  Apr 29, 2014 6:32:18pm

re: #76 klys

I thought those were coffins. Or body bags?

Keeping track of all the crazy is getting to be impossible. They’re going to start breeding and coming up with conspiracy bunnies soon.

Actually, there is a convergence… here are all three in one site. This says that the gov. has 30,000 guillotines.

As for debunking… the “Coffins” are actually burial vaults (one look shows that they are way too big for coffins). The picture was taken at the manufacturer’s facility. The rest is just beyond hope.

RBS

86 Backwoods_Sleuth  Apr 29, 2014 6:32:45pm
87 Shiplord Kirel  Apr 29, 2014 6:33:23pm

re: #76 klys

I thought those were coffins. Or body bags?

Keeping track of all the crazy is getting to be impossible. They’re going to start breeding and coming up with conspiracy bunnies soon.

It’s true. The usual suspects were pushing a big guillotine conspiracy, so much so that snopes.com created a page devoted to debunking it. Head of Purchasing.

88 TedStriker  Apr 29, 2014 6:33:25pm

re: #76 klys

I thought those were coffins. Or body bags?

Keeping track of all the crazy is getting to be impossible. They’re going to start breeding and coming up with conspiracy bunnies soon.

All of the above, at one time or another over in the RWNJ bizarro-verse.

89 Gus  Apr 29, 2014 6:33:32pm

re: #79 CuriousLurker

Asshole, WTF does Goldberg being Jewish have to do with anything?

You know. These “conservatives” think “the liberal Jew” is the greatest hindrance towards their dream of a conservative state.

90 klys  Apr 29, 2014 6:35:13pm

re: #88 TedStriker

All of the above, at one time or another over in the RWNJ bizarro-verse.

I don’t know whether to laugh or be very sad.

91 Gus  Apr 29, 2014 6:35:25pm
92 lawhawk  Apr 29, 2014 6:35:31pm

re: #89 Gus

But they want you to think that they’re huge supporters of Israel.

93 Stanley Sea  Apr 29, 2014 6:35:38pm

re: #79 CuriousLurker

Asshole, WTF does Goldberg being Jewish have to do with anything?

Everything to that fuck.

94 dog philosopher  Apr 29, 2014 6:37:06pm

re: #38 The Ghost of a Flea

We’re not running some kind of state-certified revenge system.

i’m sure this thought would be surprising to the majority of wingnuts

95 Gus  Apr 29, 2014 6:38:03pm

re: #92 lawhawk

But they want you to think that they’re huge supporters of Israel.

Which they think is this magic door to the rapture kingdom into the afterlife. After all the “non perfected” Jews die and go to the fairy land of hell. Or something.

96 Political Atheist  Apr 29, 2014 6:38:08pm

re: #1 klys
re: #68 Political Atheist

What chills me to the bone is maybe the reason we don’t do painless is we want to punish beyond that act of ending the life. At some brutal awful level some of us want the suffering or a “lesson” to be made, All in either latent masochism or desire for roman spectacle.

Feeling like a rant-
For the sake of our own moral center can we not at least be as kind as we are to a sick animal?

This is really upsetting me deeply. But once in a while a shout can be cathartic. Sorry for the bold.

97 b_sharp  Apr 29, 2014 6:38:18pm

re: #2 Kragar

I believe there are crimes for which death should be the penalty.

I also think the state has the obligation to make sure its done quickly and humanely.

This is just atrocious.

If that was the desire they should be using nitrogen.

98 RealityBasedSteve  Apr 29, 2014 6:39:30pm

re: #96 Political Atheist

What chills me to the bone is maybe the reason we don’t do painless is we want to punish beyond that act of ending the life. At some brutal awful level some of us want the suffering or a “lesson” to be made, all in either latent masochism or desire for roman spectacle.

Feeling like a rant-
For the sake of our own moral center can we not at least be as kind as we are to a sick animal?

This is really upsetting me deeply. But once in a while a shout can be cathartic. Sorry for the bold.

no apology needed.

RBS

99 teleskiguy  Apr 29, 2014 6:39:42pm

re: #74 RealityBasedSteve

re: #76 klys

re: #87 Shiplord Kirel

It’s a wonder our Republic has survived for so long.

The infinitely disparate cultures across the English speakers in the United States drives the fundies absolutely batshit. It must be an angry and sad life to think on the regular that the US Gov’t is stockpiling guillotines and ready-made mass graves. I’ll bet Alex Jones doesn’t sleep, the poor bastard!

100 Gus  Apr 29, 2014 6:40:26pm

Because, drones!

101 Stanley Sea  Apr 29, 2014 6:40:37pm

Don’t know the bible, is this correct?

ha.

102 CuriousLurker  Apr 29, 2014 6:42:45pm

re: #89 Gus

You know. These “conservatives” think “the liberal Jew” is the greatest hindrance towards their dream of a conservative state.

They suck at hiding their anti-Semitism. I hear a lot of words get attached to liberal as a sign of their dislike, but you never hear them bitching about “liberal Christains” or “liberal Muslms”.

Prolly because they don’t think there is such a thing. I mean, the only Real Christians™ are conservative Christians, right? And everyone knows there’s no such thing as a liberal (or even moderate) Muslim.

103 RealityBasedSteve  Apr 29, 2014 6:43:47pm

re: #99 teleskiguy

It’s a wonder our Republic has survived for so long.

The infinitely disparate cultures across the English speakers in the United States drives the fundies absolutely batshit. It must be an angry and sad life to think on the regular that the US Gov’t is stockpiling guillotines and ready-made mass graves. I’ll bet Alex Jones doesn’t sleep, the poor bastard!

I now have my life’s mission for when I hit the powerball. Get a black van… mirrored windows… a couple of big guys / shaved heads / dark suits and wrap around lens.

We park outside Alex Jones house on regular basis, occassionally follow him along. Occasionally get out of the van, point some weird looking device with lots of antenna / tubes / flashy blinky leds at his house.

Am I wrong for playing this over in my head?

RBS

104 goddamnedfrank  Apr 29, 2014 6:43:58pm

Republished from bottom of last thread. Didn’t see the new one.

re: #209 Gus

[Embedded content]

Some history.

But the court quickly balked, choosing instead to nullify its own stay and reverse a lower-court ruling that found a law allowing the state to keep secret the source of its lethal drugs unconstitutional. Death-penalty opponents have accused state officials of succumbing to political pressure.

Oklahoma’s morass reflects a growing challenge states are facing nationally to carry out their death sentences because of lethal-drug shortages. As European manufacturers make it increasingly difficult for states to procure chemicals intended for lethal injections, states are being forced to look elsewhere to procure the necessary ingredients. In Oklahoma, as well as other states such as Texas and Missouri, states have turned to secret compounding pharmacies to produce the lethal cocktails.

Opponents of the death penalty say such secrecy violates a prisoner’s right to know how he will die and could undermine Eighth Amendment protections against cruel and unusual punishment.

Looks like the death penalty opponents were right. The compounding pharmacy OK turned to was incompetent on top of being horribly unethical. Any compounding pharmacy that cooperates with a State to carry out an execution should suffer serious consequences. Pharmacists take the Hippocratic Oath, and these guys set out to “do harm.”

105 Gus  Apr 29, 2014 6:44:21pm

re: #102 CuriousLurker

They suck at hiding their anti-Semitism. I hear a lot of words get attached to liberal as a sign of their dislike, but it rarely ever any other religion. You never hear them bitching about “liberal Christains” or “liberal Muslms”.

Prolly because they don;t think there is such a thing. I mean, the only Real ChristiansTM are conservative Christians, right? And everyone knows there’s no such thing as a liberal (or even moderate) Muslim.

Because, they think all Jews support them because of their alleged support of Israel. They support Israel. They have Israeli flags on their avis sometimes and they mention it in their profile. :D

106 Political Atheist  Apr 29, 2014 6:46:13pm

re: #54 Shiplord Kirel

I just don’t think there is a medical challenge here at all. We “halfway kill” every major surgery patient. A coma can be induced easily. Trauma patients get that.
I think our issue is not medical, it’s the justice system. IMHO.

107 klys  Apr 29, 2014 6:46:36pm

re: #104 goddamnedfrank

Some history.

Looks like the death penalty opponents were right. The compounding pharmacy OK turned to was incompetent on top of being horribly unethical. Any compounding pharmacy that cooperates with a State to carry out an execution should suffer serious consequences. Pharmacists take the Hippocratic Oath, and these guys set out to “do harm.”

It’s worth noting that some of the more conservative politicians in OK had indicated they were ready to move to impeach the justices when they issued a stay of the executions while trying to deal with the constitutionality of the secrecy issue.

108 Amory Blaine  Apr 29, 2014 6:48:01pm

This country is incapable of administering capital punishment in a just manner. The prisons are full of black people due to systemic racism.

109 The Ghost of a Flea  Apr 29, 2014 6:48:17pm

re: #105 Gus

Because, they think all Jews support them because of their alleged support of Israel. They support Israel. They have Israeli flags on their avis sometimes and they mention it in their profile. :D

The imaginary Israel where there are none of The Wrong Kind of Jews (liberal, secular, tolerant, skeptical of apocalypticists bearing gifts).

110 Romantic Heretic  Apr 29, 2014 6:48:43pm

re: #7 lawhawk

And that the person is indeed guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. When there are failures at each step of the process, one cannot and should not consider the death penalty as an appropriate sentence.

Add to all that the fact that putting someone on death row costs more than life without parole. Between the higher legal costs, and higher costs of incarceration on those locked up in death row, it costs the state more for a death penalty situation.

I’ve stated my objections before. We can’t fix mistakes. It isn’t carried out fairly. It’s a political tool, not a judicial one.

I also believe that should the death penalty be returned to Canada I will lobby for two things. First, the method of execution will be a 9mm hollow point pistol round in the back of the head. Second, the job of executioner will be filled by conscription. Any person who can vote might someday receive a letter that says, “On this day you shall appear at this prison at 9 am where you will be required to kill this person.”

The second point often makes supporters of the death penalty sputter, “I wouldn’t comply. I’m not a killer!”

111 goddamnedfrank  Apr 29, 2014 6:49:12pm

re: #21 William Barnett-Lewis

Crime rates are actually dropping. More evidence that it’s from shifting to lead free gas than CCW or the death penalty though…

Freakonomics made a fairly convincing case that abortion on demand played a big part in crime rate drops, not just here but in other countries. I believe Bulgaria was a prime example. The idea being that unwanted kids are often unloved and tend not to be as well socialized.

112 klys  Apr 29, 2014 6:49:15pm

re: #106 Political Atheist

I just don’t think there is a medical challenge here at all. We “halfway kill” every major surgery patient. A coma can be induced easily. Trauma patients get that.
I think our issue is not medical, it’s the justice system. IMHO.

Well, actually, part of it is medical, in that the drug manufacturers in Europe will not sell the drugs that have been used in these cocktails for the past several decades anymore.

That’s why they’re scrambling to try to come up with alternatives, so that they can continue the executions.

113 Romantic Heretic  Apr 29, 2014 6:49:47pm

re: #10 Varek Raith

He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you.

-Nietzsche

What you resist, you become. - Taoist proverb

114 dog philosopher  Apr 29, 2014 6:51:05pm

re: #101 Stanley Sea

Don’t know the bible, is this correct?

ha.

exodus 21, “laws about slaves”

“When men strive together and hit a pregnant woman, so that her children come out, but there is no harm, the one who hit her shall surely be fined, as the woman’s husband shall impose on him, and he shall pay as the judges determine. 23 But if there is harm,[d] then you shall pay life for life, 24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, 25 burn for burn, wound for wound, stripe for stripe

leviticus 24

“Whoever takes a human life shall surely be put to death. 18 Whoever takes an animal’s life shall make it good, life for life. 19 If anyone injures his neighbor, as he has done it shall be done to him, 20 fracture for fracture, eye for eye, tooth for tooth; whatever injury he has given a person shall be given to him. 21 Whoever kills an animal shall make it good, and whoever kills a person shall be put to death. 22 You shall have the same rule for the sojourner and for the native, for I am the Lord your God.” 23 So Moses spoke to the people of Israel, and they brought out of the camp the one who had cursed and stoned him with stones. Thus the people of Israel did as the Lord commanded Moses.

Matthew 5:38-39

“You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ 39 But I say to you, Do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.

Isaac Kalimi explains that the “lex talionis was humanized by the Rabbis who interpreted “an eye for an eye” to mean reasonable pecuniary compensation. As in the case of the Babylonian ‘lex talionis’, ethical Judaism and humane Jewish jurisprudence replaces the peshat (literal meaning) of the written Torah. Pasachoff and Littman point to the reinterpretation of the lex talionis as an example of the ability of Pharisaic Judaism to “adapt to changing social and intellectual ideas.”

115 Gus  Apr 29, 2014 6:51:37pm

As it goes around the world…

116 RealityBasedSteve  Apr 29, 2014 6:51:55pm

re: #78 TedStriker

Is it just me or has Lee Greenwood morphed into Les Gold?

[Embedded image]

American Jewelry and Loan... So, now he’s a pitchman for a chain of pawn shops?

117 Belafon  Apr 29, 2014 6:52:13pm

re: #113 Romantic Heretic

You have heard that it was said, ‘AN EYE FOR AN EYE, AND A TOOTH FOR A TOOTH.’ 39”But I say to you, do not resist an evil person; but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also.

- Jesus, Matthew 5:38-39

118 dog philosopher  Apr 29, 2014 6:52:35pm

re: #114 dog philosopher

shorter “eye for an eye” in the bible:

jewish law interprets it as metaphorical and the new testament explicitly repudiates it

119 Stanley Sea  Apr 29, 2014 6:52:37pm

re: #114 dog philosopher

Thanks but honestly, I can’t comprehend that shit. I have some sort of antibody.

120 Gus  Apr 29, 2014 6:52:59pm

Should the penalty for carrying out a cruel and unusual execution be the death penalty?

121 Romantic Heretic  Apr 29, 2014 6:53:02pm

re: #21 William Barnett-Lewis

Crime rates are actually dropping. More evidence that it’s from shifting to lead free gas than CCW or the death penalty though…

I think it has more to do with demographics. The people that commit the most crimes are young men, who tend to be testosterone addled idiots. There’s fewer of them now as the Baby Boom is long over and the Boomer criminals are either dead or too old to cause much trouble.

122 teleskiguy  Apr 29, 2014 6:53:18pm
123 dog philosopher  Apr 29, 2014 6:53:21pm

re: #113 Romantic Heretic

What you resist, you become. - Taoist proverb

that would explain what happened to the teachings of jesus

124 Backwoods_Sleuth  Apr 29, 2014 6:53:38pm

Ohio had a similar botched execution in January.

After 26-minute execution in Ohio, concerns raised over lethal injection

Dennis McGuire’s execution on Thursday took 26 minutes from the time the drugs were administered to when he was pronounced dead, according to The Associated Press.
During that time he “gasped, made snorting sounds and repeatedly opened and shut his mouth,” according to the report.
McGuire, 53, was sentenced to death in 1989 for the rape and stabbing death of Joy Stewart, 22, who was seven months pregnant.
His execution was the longest in Ohio since it resumed capital punishment 15 years ago, but it was unique for another reason as well. McGuire was given a never-before-tried combination of the sedative midazolam and the painkiller hydromorphone.

125 Stanley Sea  Apr 29, 2014 6:54:23pm

re: #110 Romantic Heretic

I’ve stated my objections before. We can’t fix mistakes. It isn’t carried out fairly. It’s a political tool, not a judicial one.

I also believe that should the death penalty be returned to Canada I will lobby for two things. First, the method of execution will be a 9mm hollow point pistol round in the back of the head. Second, the job of executioner will be filled by conscription. Any person who can vote might someday receive a letter that says, “On this day you shall appear at this prison at 9 am where you will be required to kill this person.”

The second point often makes supporters of the death penalty sputter, “I wouldn’t comply. I’m not a killer!”

Yep, that would end it.

126 prairiefire  Apr 29, 2014 6:54:27pm

re: #106 Political Atheist

Several of the drug companies have stopped producing the drugs for lethal injection due to bad publicity. There is a shortage now and the prisons are experimenting on these inmates, without knowing which combinations will work effectively.

127 Targetpractice  Apr 29, 2014 6:55:03pm

re: #124 Backwoods_Sleuth

Ohio had a similar botched execution in January.

After 26-minute execution in Ohio, concerns raised over lethal injection

I was pretty sure that we put some men to death at Nuremberg for treating fellow human beings as guinea pigs. Or were they hoping that if they failed, nobody would ever find out about it?

128 Belafon  Apr 29, 2014 6:55:22pm

re: #121 Romantic Heretic

motherjones.com

Another chapter told a story of demographics: As the number of young men increases, so does crime. Unfortunately for this theory, the number of young men increased during the ’90s, but crime dropped anyway.

129 goddamnedfrank  Apr 29, 2014 6:55:41pm

re: #106 Political Atheist

I just don’t think there is a medical challenge here at all. We “halfway kill” every major surgery patient. A coma can be induced easily. Trauma patients get that.
I think our issue is not medical, it’s the justice system. IMHO.

There’s a huge medical ethics problem though. Pharmacists take the Hippocratic Oath, and these clowns flagrantly violated that. This is why they and the States that hire them wanted to keep their names secret. What they’re doing is simply disgusting and utterly antithetical to their profession’s entire mission and purpose. They’re shitting all over the collective history of the professional medical community.

130 Gus  Apr 29, 2014 6:56:55pm

re: #127 Targetpractice

I was pretty sure that we put some men to death at Nuremberg for treating fellow human beings as guinea pigs. Or were they hoping that if they failed, nobody would ever find out about it?

Springtime for Fallin and Oklahoma
Sooner State is happy and gay!
We’re marching to a faster pace
Look out, here comes the master race!

131 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Apr 29, 2014 6:56:58pm

re: #96 Political Atheist

What chills me to the bone is maybe the reason we don’t do painless is we want to punish beyond that act of ending the life. At some brutal awful level some of us want the suffering or a “lesson” to be made, All in either latent masochism or desire for roman spectacle.

Feeling like a rant-
For the sake of our own moral center can we not at least be as kind as we are to a sick animal?

This is really upsetting me deeply. But once in a while a shout can be cathartic. Sorry for the bold.

The thing is, just like having the death penalty at all means we’ll inevitably execute innocent people, having the death penalty also means it’s going to fuck up and be painful or horrible sometimes. Adding to this problem, most medical professionals refuse to participate in executions, and it’s so rare that nobody can become experienced at it—and would you really want to meet the dude who made a speciality of it?

Ironically, if we had assisted suicide, we’d be better at this, but even then, that’s why they tend to give them a shitload of morphine or whatever.

132 Political Atheist  Apr 29, 2014 6:57:15pm

re: #112 klys

Well, actually, part of it is medical, in that the drug manufacturers in Europe will not sell the drugs that have been used in these cocktails for the past several decades anymore.

That’s why they’re scrambling to try to come up with alternatives, so that they can continue the executions.

Well in a way that’s exactly my point. It’s an experiment, Worse an unnecessary one. It flies in the face of euphoric options, general anesthesia or induced coma as per daily medical practice.

133 TedStriker  Apr 29, 2014 6:58:34pm

re: #116 RealityBasedSteve

American Jewelry and Loan... So, now he’s a pitchman for a chain of pawn shops?

For the record, Lee and Les are not the same person, I just thought there was a striking resemblance.

134 Gus  Apr 29, 2014 6:58:43pm
135 Targetpractice  Apr 29, 2014 6:59:50pm

re: #134 Gus

[Embedded content]

An evaluation, aka “Find out whose ass to fry for this fuck-up so I can absolve myself of guilt for pushing ahead with these executions despite the untested nature of the method of execution.”

136 Gus  Apr 29, 2014 7:00:04pm

Kitten break.

137 Gus  Apr 29, 2014 7:00:17pm

re: #135 Targetpractice

An evaluation, aka “Find out who’s ass to fry for this fuck-up so I can absolve myself of guilt for pushing ahead with these executions despite the untested nature of the method of execution.”

138 teleskiguy  Apr 29, 2014 7:00:31pm

Oh God, you Devil! Fucking Twitter!

139 Targetpractice  Apr 29, 2014 7:00:36pm

re: #136 Gus

Kitten break.

[Embedded content]

Because computer companies have yet to develop a laptop that isn’t also a convenient toaster oven.

140 Backwoods_Sleuth  Apr 29, 2014 7:02:21pm

re: #136 Gus

Kitten break.

[Embedded content]

Meerkats

141 teleskiguy  Apr 29, 2014 7:02:27pm

re: #134 Gus

[Embedded content]

Back in February…

142 Amory Blaine  Apr 29, 2014 7:02:43pm

“It was uncomfortable to watch.”

143 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Apr 29, 2014 7:03:18pm

re: #129 goddamnedfrank

There’s a huge medical ethics problem though. Pharmacists take the Hippocratic Oath, and these clowns flagrantly violated that.

Just to nitpick, pretty much nobody takes the Hippocratic oath. They take a much more modern oath.

“I promise to devote myself to a lifetime of service to others through the profession of pharmacy. In fulfilling this vow:

I will consider the welfare of humanity and relief of suffering my primary concerns.

I will apply my knowledge, experience, and skills to the best of my ability to assure optimal outcomes for my patients.

I will respect and protect all personal and health information entrusted to me.

I will accept the lifelong obligation to improve my professional knowledge and competence.

I will hold myself and my colleagues to the highest principles of our profession’s moral, ethical and legal conduct.

I will embrace and advocate changes that improve patient care.

I will utilize my knowledge, skills, experiences, and values to prepare the next generation of pharmacists.

I take these vows voluntarily with the full realization of the responsibility with which I am entrusted by the public.”

The most problematic one for executions is that. You can argue that the ‘optimal outcome’ is that the state is going to kill them anyway, so you might as well help it be as painless as possible, but it’s a thin argument.

The American Pharmacist’s Association is strongly against the death penalty currently.

apa.org

Therefore be it resolved that the American Psychological Association:
Calls upon each jurisdiction in the United States that imposes capital punishment not to carry out the death penalty until the jurisdiction implements policies and procedures that can be shown through psychological and other social science research to ameliorate the deficiencies identified above.

There is no actual way to resolve many of the issues they raise, so this is basically, “Stop this until we achieve societal enlightenment”, at which point it’d be moot.

144 Lidane  Apr 29, 2014 7:03:44pm

OT, but predictable FB wingnut is predictable:

So, in the last couple weeks we’ve had a CEO forced to resign due to his anti-gay sentiment, and now a NBA franchise owner banned from the sport, and potentially forced to sell his franchise because of a racist comment he made. Does this not scare you even a little? Does this not bring forth thoughts of McCarthyism? People can now lose their jobs/careers because of their views and opinions. Better watch what you say from now on.

I’m not saying their opinions are right (nor are their specific comments what this post is about), but is this the road that we, as free-speech loving Americans, really want to go down? Sure, it feels good to get the bad guys out now, but what if you say something that a person in the next booth at a restaurant hears and they get offended? Will they remove you from the restaurant? If your neighbor doesn’t like you, can they report you for saying something ‘offensive’, and have you be forced to move away?

Yes, it seems extreme now, but isn’t that where this road has led to so many times in the history of man? The Spanish Inquisition? The Salem Witch Hunts? The Red Scare (McCarthyism)?

“I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.” - Voltaire (is the guy that generally gets credit for this quote)
I feel the same way. I can choose to turn off the TV if it offends me. If someone has a view I don’t like, I can choose to not communicate with them. I can choose to not frequent businesses in which I don’t approve of the owner’s views. But I will fight to the death for their right to express them (asinine as they may be).

Isn’t that what the First Amendment is also about? Freedom of speech? But now, if you say something we don’t like, we’re going to make you go away. That’s not freedom…that’s censorship. (I call it bully-censorship because they are literally bullying people to be quiet.)

We, as a nation, are actually forcing people to fall in line or be punished.
Maybe I am over-reacting, but to me, this is setting a very scary precedent.

*sigh*

145 goddamnedfrank  Apr 29, 2014 7:03:49pm

re: #131 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

and it’s so rare that nobody can become experienced at it—and would you really want to meet the dude who made a speciality of it?

Errol Morris made a documentary about that guy. As you say, you wouldn’t want to meet him. Super creepy dude. He became a Holocaust denier and was a semi celebrity in those circles.

146 Targetpractice  Apr 29, 2014 7:04:10pm

re: #142 Amory Blaine

“It was uncomfortable to watch.”

Then perhaps that should be a clue that what you’re doing is wrong. But nope, we absolve ourselves our of guilt by doping them into a coma first, so that we don’t have to sit there and watch them writhe around on the bed until their heart finally stops.

147 teleskiguy  Apr 29, 2014 7:04:28pm

Nice! Rob Delaney, is retweeting some good ones from Governor Mary Fallin’s Twitter account.

I like this one.

148 klys  Apr 29, 2014 7:05:30pm

re: #132 Political Atheist

Well in a way that’s exactly my point. It’s an experiment, Worse an unnecessary one. It flies in the face of euphoric options, general anesthesia or induced coma as per daily medical practice.

The drug previously used (sodium thiopentol) was used for general anesthesia. (It has since been replaced, generally, with other options that are considered less optimal for this situation.) The cocktail, as it existed, was considered a reasonable (hah) option.

Now states cannot obtain sodium thiopentol for executions.

Most anesthesiologists are also not too keen on coming in and helping states refine their execution procedures.

149 Targetpractice  Apr 29, 2014 7:06:48pm

re: #144 Lidane

OT, but predictable FB wingnut is predictable:

*sigh*

And the NBA has chosen not to be associated with Sterling any longer, as they feel that his views do not reflect well upon them and in fact hurt their business model. Freedom of association is a two-way street.

150 Gus  Apr 29, 2014 7:07:53pm
151 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Apr 29, 2014 7:07:53pm

re: #148 klys

The drug previously used (sodium thiopentol) was used for general anesthesia. (It has since been replaced, generally, with other options that are considered less optimal for this situation.) The cocktail, as it existed, was considered a reasonable (hah) option.

Now states cannot obtain sodium thiopentol for executions.

Most anesthesiologists are also not too keen on coming in and helping states refine their execution procedures.

There is no ethical way whatsoever to obtain good data on how to do it. It will never be a scientific procedure. The ‘refinement’ they’re going to do is a joke.

Why don’t we just pump them full of morphine and let them die happy? I think that we don’t shows that we want them scared and unhappy, facing death. The whole thing is just so fucked up. Knowing you’re going to be executed, death row, the whole shebang.

152 RealityBasedSteve  Apr 29, 2014 7:07:56pm

re: #133 TedStriker

For the record, Lee and Les are not the same person, I just thought there was a striking resemblance.

Ok…. my bad.

153 prairiefire  Apr 29, 2014 7:09:10pm

re: #151 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

People can have severe allergic reactions to morphine as well.

154 Lidane  Apr 29, 2014 7:09:13pm

re: #149 Targetpractice

And the NBA has chosen not to be associated with Sterling any longer, as they feel that his views do not reflect well upon them and in fact hurt their business model. Freedom of association is a two-way street.

I am in the process of pointing this out. We’ll see what he says.

The NBA is a private enterprise policing one of its own and acting in its own rational self-interest. That’s capitalism in a nutshell.

155 Gus  Apr 29, 2014 7:09:44pm
156 TedStriker  Apr 29, 2014 7:09:53pm

re: #112 klys

Well, actually, part of it is medical, in that the drug manufacturers in Europe will not sell the drugs that have been used in these cocktails for the past several decades anymore.

That’s why they’re scrambling to try to come up with alternatives, so that they can continue the executions.

As I posted downstairs, it’s not that the European drug manufacturers (many of whom either own one or more American pharma companies or have their own subsidiaries here) won’t sell the drugs in questions to the states for the purposes of lethal injections, it’s that they are barred by EU law from doing so:

European Union export ban[edit]
Due to its use for executions in the US, the UK introduced a ban on the export of sodium thiopental in December 2010,[65] after it was established that no European supplies to the US were being used for any other purpose.[66] The restrictions were based on “the European Union Torture Regulation (including licensing of drugs used in execution by lethal injection)”.[67] From 21 December 2011 the European Union extended trade restrictions to prevent the export of certain medicinal products for capital punishment, stating that “The Union disapproves of capital punishment in all circumstances and works towards its universal abolition”.[68]

157 Gus  Apr 29, 2014 7:10:04pm
158 Targetpractice  Apr 29, 2014 7:10:30pm

re: #155 Gus

[Embedded content]

Erick, you can’t have it both ways, not if you’re “pro-life.”

159 RealityBasedSteve  Apr 29, 2014 7:10:56pm

re: #136 Gus

Kitten break.

[Embedded content]

Female VERY REGAL ‘meezer cat is NOT IMPRESSED with my new router / wifi point.. The old one sat horizontal on the shelf on the desk, and was perfect ‘cat-butt’ sized. The new one is a vertical mount.

I think the old one failed from an accumulation of ‘cat-butt-hair’

RBS

160 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Apr 29, 2014 7:11:11pm

re: #153 prairiefire

People can have severe allergic reactions to morphine as well.

True, but you can test that with a mild dose of it first.

161 Gus  Apr 29, 2014 7:11:22pm

re: #157 Gus

[Embedded content]

162 Killgore Trout  Apr 29, 2014 7:12:26pm

re: #150 Gus

[Embedded content]

brilliant idea!

163 prairiefire  Apr 29, 2014 7:12:48pm

re: #160 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

True, but you can test that with a mild dose of it first.

True.

164 goddamnedfrank  Apr 29, 2014 7:13:13pm

re: #143 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

Just to nitpick, pretty much nobody takes the Hippocratic oath. They take a much more modern oath.

The most problematic one for executions is that. You can argue that the ‘optimal outcome’ is that the state is going to kill them anyway, so you might as well help it be as painless as possible, but it’s a thin argument.

The American Pharmacist’s Association is strongly against the death penalty currently.

apa.org

There is no actual way to resolve many of the issues they raise, so this is basically, “Stop this until we achieve societal enlightenment”, at which point it’d be moot.

There’s also this line from your quote:

I will hold myself and my colleagues to the highest principles of our profession’s moral, ethical and legal conduct.

That and the fact that the APA is explicitly against participating in execution should be enough to to ensure that these compounding pharmacies see come kind of repercussions from all this. The biggest obstacle obviously being the fact that they’re licensed by the same fucked up State that’s so eager to carry these executions out.

I’m tempted to say burn the motherfuckers down, but that won’t solve anything.

165 Targetpractice  Apr 29, 2014 7:13:22pm

re: #154 Lidane

I am in the process of pointing this out. We’ll see what he says.

The NBA is a private enterprise policing one of its own and acting in its own rational self-interest. That’s capitalism in a nutshell.

Hell, just his restaurant example falls flat on its face. If another customer overheard me say something offensive and asked the management to have me ejected, then odds are good that he’d be told that I’m a paying customer just as he is and he has no authority to have me thrown out. Now if it were multiple customers who were being offended, then sure, I might get asked to leave, but that’s because its bad for his business to have multiple customers lodging complaints.

166 teleskiguy  Apr 29, 2014 7:13:24pm

re: #150 Gus

Do you think this might violate the no-smoking-in-public proviso of Amendment 64?

167 Gus  Apr 29, 2014 7:14:37pm

re: #166 teleskiguy

Do you think this might violate the no-smoking-in-public proviso of Amendment 64?

Interesting. Don’t know how the regs work. Outdoor concert perhaps. No smoking within the prescribed distance from the concert stage…

168 Stanley Sea  Apr 29, 2014 7:14:48pm

re: #144 Lidane

Typical privileged scaredy cat typing on his internet.

169 goddamnedfrank  Apr 29, 2014 7:15:37pm

re: #166 teleskiguy

Do you think this might violate the no-smoking-in-public proviso of Amendment 64?

Edibles.

170 palomino  Apr 29, 2014 7:16:18pm

re: #55 Gus

[Embedded content]

[Vomit]

Goldberg is not a liberal. He’s actually a moderate with some fairly hawkish views, and a very strong supporter of Israel.

Above all else, he’s pragmatic and well informed. Which is why he didn’t freak out when Kerry said the word “apartheid.”

171 Romantic Heretic  Apr 29, 2014 7:16:56pm

re: #128 Belafon

Drat. Another brilliant hypothesis dashed to pieces.

Oh well. If I knew everything I’d be God and then I certainly wouldn’t be hanging around this silly planet.

172 Killgore Trout  Apr 29, 2014 7:16:57pm

re: #167 Gus

Interesting. Don’t know how the regs work. Outdoor concert perhaps. No smoking within the prescribed distance from the concert stage…

I used to get high in the parking lot of the Kennedy center before going to the symphony all the time. People can figure it out.

173 Shiplord Kirel  Apr 29, 2014 7:17:23pm

Objectively, the guillotine has a lot going for it compared to lethal injection, the gas chamber or electrocution. It is quick and sure, and probably painless. There have been a few botched guillotinings in history, mostly from the blade getting stuck in the track and the like. This can easily be avoided and the machine is certainly easier to manage than a cocktail of lethal drugs, not to mention infinitely more predictable in its immediate effects.
It isn’t worth a damn at the real purpose of these supposedly more humane, bloodless, and antiseptic methods of killing, though. That is to soften the psychological impact and disguise the event as something other than what it is.
Among others, Germany, Sweden, and France all used the guillotine until well into the twentieth century (France until 1977). All have long since abolished capital punishment. I wonder if the method made final abolition easier to sell.

174 Killgore Trout  Apr 29, 2014 7:17:40pm

Vaping is legal indoors here in Oregon.

175 Gus  Apr 29, 2014 7:19:19pm

Bark break.

176 Belafon  Apr 29, 2014 7:19:47pm

re: #171 Romantic Heretic

The articles a good one, and makes the case that lead poisoning is a big contribution to the level of violence and teen pregnancy.

177 teleskiguy  Apr 29, 2014 7:19:59pm

re: #169 goddamnedfrank

Edibles.

Some people like to smoke. If you’re outside - 20 feet away from doors and windows - and you’re not bothering anybody with your smoke, I think you should be able to smoke in public in America, whether it be cannabis or tobacco. My 2¢

Unless you’re in, say, a National Forest in extraordinary drought.

178 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Apr 29, 2014 7:20:06pm

re: #164 goddamnedfrank

There’s also this line from your quote:

That and the fact that the APA is explicitly against participating in execution should be enough to to ensure that these compounding pharmacies see come kind of repercussions from all this. The biggest obstacle obviously being the fact that they’re licensed by the same fucked up State that’s so eager to carry these executions out.

I’m tempted to say burn the motherfuckers down, but that won’t solve anything.

Gawande, in his book “Better”—an excellent book—tracked down four physicians who were involved in carrying out executions. I think he found one of them disturbingly untroubled, but my memory may be faulty. Anyway, one guy tugged at my heartstrings because he said he did it because ‘You know that they’ll do it even without us. In those places, where they do this, they’ll do it. I’m there to keep them as humane as I can.’ And I see his point. I don’t want him hounded and derided for interpreting his duty to a patient even in the midst of a larger horror. I disagree with him, I think he’s got it wrong, but he really convincingly is doing his best in what he sees as a fucked-up system.

179 dog philosopher  Apr 29, 2014 7:20:10pm

re: #155 Gus

So we’re to be upset with a murderer being executed, but okay with ripping kids limb from limb and sucking their brains out while in utero?

— Erick Erickson (@EWErickson) April 30, 2014

Alright liberals, good watching you vomit your ignorance of Christianity in my timeline, but I gotta go work. Good night.

— Erick Erickson (@EWErickson) April 30, 2014

the jesus, let me explain to you how it works

180 Mattand  Apr 29, 2014 7:20:30pm

re: #144 Lidane

OT, but predictable FB wingnut is predictable:

*sigh*

Wouldn’t it just be easier to say “I’m a paranoid loon who’s pissed off I can’t be racist without consequence”?

181 HappyWarrior  Apr 29, 2014 7:20:41pm

re: #161 Gus

[Embedded content]

Wait Joe Walsh actually making sense. Still an asshole though but I’ll give him credit for this stopped clock moment.

182 The Mountain That Blogs  Apr 29, 2014 7:21:31pm

re: #148 klys

Most anesthesiologists are also not too keen on coming in and helping states refine their execution procedures.

They would also get their certification revoked by the American Board of Anesthesiology

183 HappyWarrior  Apr 29, 2014 7:21:38pm

The Death Penalty I think is outdated and doesn’t do a damn thing to reduce crime. It should never be about revenge. The crime that the executed did was no doubt horrendous but that doesn’t justify or rationalize barbarism on the state’s part.

184 Gus  Apr 29, 2014 7:21:54pm
185 klys  Apr 29, 2014 7:22:10pm

re: #182 The Mountain That Blogs

They would also get their certification revoked by the American Board of Anesthesiology

As it should be.

I am not pro-death penalty.

186 dog philosopher  Apr 29, 2014 7:22:15pm

So we’re to be upset with a murderer being executed, but okay with ripping kids limb from limb and sucking their brains out while in utero?

So we’re to be obsessed with abortions, but not terribly concerned with starving children without access to a decent life here and all over the world?

187 Pie-onist Overlord  Apr 29, 2014 7:22:30pm

re: #173 Shiplord Kirel

Objectively, the guillotine has a lot going for it compared to lethal injection, the gas chamber or electrocution. It is quick and sure, and probably painless. There have been a few botched guillotinings in history, mostly from the blade getting stuck in the track and the like. This can easily be avoided and the machine is certainly easier to manage than a cocktail of lethal drugs, not to mention infinitely more predictable in its immediate effects.
It isn’t worth a damn at the real purpose of these supposedly more humane, bloodless, and antiseptic methods of killing, though. That is to soften the psychological impact and disguise the event as something other than what it is.
Among others, Germany, Sweden, and France all used the guillotine until well into the twentieth century (France until 1977). All have long since abolished capital punishment. I wonder if the method made final abolition easier to sell.

The Guillotine is probably the most humane method of execution, but it is horrifying and messy.

188 Belafon  Apr 29, 2014 7:23:07pm
189 Lidane  Apr 29, 2014 7:23:44pm
I wonder if the method made final abolition easier to sell.

I would think so. It’s much easier to ban the death penalty when the state is chopping heads off. If you convince people that it’s the equivalent of putting a dog to sleep, banning executions is going to be a much tougher sell.

190 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Apr 29, 2014 7:24:17pm

re: #173 Shiplord Kirel

The real horror, of course, is the procedure, not the act. Being strapped in. Being led to the room. Having your head put in that hole. That’s the part, more than the actual killing, which is so absolutely repellent to me. People talk about the people going to executions bravely, but many are dragged, weeping, or plead for it not to happen, or curse their executioners.

There’s really nothing redeemable in the whole thing, but i do think that especially naming the date and time of someone’s execution is fucked up.

Now i want to write a short story about a society where death penalty convictions are secret, and they give you a memory-blanking agent after your sentencing and let you go home, and then kill you in your sleep. But of course the story would be about that fucking up.

191 Belafon  Apr 29, 2014 7:24:18pm

re: #186 dog philosopher

Those children will get to go to heaven and be better for it because of their suffering.

192 Pie-onist Overlord  Apr 29, 2014 7:24:31pm
193 Targetpractice  Apr 29, 2014 7:24:58pm

re: #188 Belafon

[Embedded content]

Yes, the power of life and death put in the hands of 12 people who will never have to think about their decision past the moment they’re dismissed from the courtroom. It’s how we further divorce ourselves from it all, by saying that the state is simply executing the decision of an impartial jury.

194 Amory Blaine  Apr 29, 2014 7:25:18pm

Guillotine revival. First one should go in Battery Park. For old times sake.

195 dog philosopher  Apr 29, 2014 7:25:38pm

erick erickson

the one thing that annoys me the most about people like this is how they patiently “explain” to you that jesus didn’t really mean what he said

196 HappyWarrior  Apr 29, 2014 7:25:41pm

re: #189 Lidane

I would think so. It’s much easier to ban the death penalty when the state is chopping heads off. If you convince people that it’s the equivalent of putting a dog to sleep, banning executions is going to be a much tougher sell.

Yeah I think that’s why beheading fell out of fashion too. Thing of course what blood thirsty hacks like Erickson won’t ever want to admit is nearly every form of modern public execution starts off “humanely.” The guillotine was considered humane and believe it or not so was the electric chair and gas chamber. Honestly, just do away with the death penalty. Executing the perp doesn’t bring back the victims. It’s not justice.

197 The Mountain That Blogs  Apr 29, 2014 7:26:15pm

re: #185 klys

As it should be.

Damn right. Physicians are supposed to heal people, not kill them.

198 thedopefishlives  Apr 29, 2014 7:26:48pm

re: #197 The Mountain That Blogs

Damn right. Physicians are supposed to heal people, not kill them.

Yeah, that whole Hippocratic Oath thing is taken pretty seriously.

199 bubba zanetti  Apr 29, 2014 7:27:40pm
200 jamesfirecat  Apr 29, 2014 7:27:43pm

re: #194 Amory Blaine

Guillotine revival. First one should go in Battery Park. For old times sake.

We would have to call it something new though Guillotine is too French, I know from now on its a freedom saw!

201 HappyWarrior  Apr 29, 2014 7:28:21pm

I find it funny that conservatives who don’t trust the government to improve education and health care want it involved in deciding whether people should die or not. That’s conservatism for you though in a nutshell. Government is bad when it’s used for things like education and health care but they love it as a tool of putting people down.

202 Targetpractice  Apr 29, 2014 7:29:24pm

re: #196 HappyWarrior

Yeah I think that’s why beheading fell out of fashion too. Thing of course what blood thirsty hacks like Erickson won’t ever want to admit is nearly every form of modern public execution starts off “humanely.” The guillotine was considered humane and believe it or not so was the electric chair and gas chamber. Honestly, just do away with the death penalty. Executing the perp doesn’t bring back the victims. It’s not justice.

The guillotine was designed because it was considered quicker and more humane than the previous form of state execution, which was beheading. Sure, a beheading could be quick too, provided the headsman was skilled, the blade was sharp enough to go through with a single whack, and the soon to be much shorter person kept perfectly still. But such things were the exception rather than the rule, leading to many an execution turning into horrendous affairs where the headsman basically hacked the poor bastard to death.

203 Pie-onist Overlord  Apr 29, 2014 7:30:26pm
204 thedopefishlives  Apr 29, 2014 7:31:03pm

re: #201 HappyWarrior

I find it funny that conservatives who don’t trust the government to improve education and health care want it involved in deciding whether people should die or not. That’s conservatism for you though in a nutshell. Government is bad when it’s used for things like education and health care but they love it as a tool of putting people down.

DEATH PANELS!!!1!1eleventy

205 steve_davis  Apr 29, 2014 7:31:04pm

Prison phone rings. Director of Prisons, Robert Patton answers the phone and leaves the room - taking three state officials with him. It’s Michael Vick on the line, asking if these dumb mother****s need him to help walk them through the steps to a painless execution involving a bucket of water and an electrical outlet.

206 subterraneanhomesickalien  Apr 29, 2014 7:31:08pm

“I would imagine more people than you would deem appropriate will find pleasure in this mans final suffering

207 Backwoods_Sleuth  Apr 29, 2014 7:31:10pm

re: #190 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

The real horror, of course, is the procedure, not the act. Being strapped in. Being led to the room. Having your head put in that hole. That’s the part, more than the actual killing, which is so absolutely repellent to me. People talk about the people going to executions bravely, but many are dragged, weeping, or plead for it not to happen, or curse their executioners.

There’s really nothing redeemable in the whole thing, but i do think that especially naming the date and time of someone’s execution is fucked up.

Now i want to write a short story about a society where death penalty convictions are secret, and they give you a memory-blanking agent after your sentencing and let you go home, and then kill you in your sleep. But of course the story would be about that fucking up.

Got one to recommend to you that has that theme. “Faithfully Yours” by Lou Tabakow (who was a very good friend of mine, RIP). Free download at Gutenberg Project:
gutenberg.org

208 Targetpractice  Apr 29, 2014 7:31:11pm

re: #203 Pie-onist Overlord

[Embedded content]

I thought he had work to do?

209 Amory Blaine  Apr 29, 2014 7:32:06pm

re: #201 HappyWarrior

I find it funny that conservatives who don’t trust the government to improve education and health care want it involved in deciding whether people should die or not. That’s conservatism for you though in a nutshell. Government is bad when it’s used for things like education and health care but they love it as a tool of putting people down.

You gotta start somewhere!!
//

210 dog philosopher  Apr 29, 2014 7:32:12pm

re: #203 Pie-onist Overlord

For liberals a botched execution is when the convict dies, a botched abortion is when the innocent live.

— Erick Erickson (@EWErickson) April 30, 2014

for morons like you a botched statement is when you fail to misrepresent the other person’s opinion

211 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Apr 29, 2014 7:33:29pm

re: #198 thedopefishlives

Yeah, that whole Hippocratic Oath thing is taken pretty seriously.

Again, no, it isn’t. The Hippocratic Oath bans, for example, lithotomies and abortions. Physicians have a modern code, the Declaration of Geneva:

At the time of being admitted as a member of the medical profession:

I solemnly pledge to consecrate my life to the service of humanity;
I will give to my teachers the respect and gratitude that is their due;
I will practice my profession with conscience and dignity;
The health of my patient will be my first consideration;
I will respect the secrets that are confided in me, even after the patient has died;
I will maintain by all the means in my power, the honour and the noble traditions of the medical profession;
My colleagues will be my sisters and brothers;
I will not permit considerations of age, disease or disability, creed, ethnic origin, gender, nationality, political affiliation, race, sexual orientation, social standing or any other factor to intervene between my duty and my patient;
I will maintain the utmost respect for human life;
I will not use my medical knowledge to violate human rights and civil liberties, even under threat;
I make these promises solemnly, freely and upon my honour.

Bolded the ones that are most often seen as conflicting with the death penalty.

Really, guys, read the Hippocratic Oath. Good for it’s time, but really dated.

212 RealityBasedSteve  Apr 29, 2014 7:33:46pm

re: #202 Targetpractice

The guillotine was designed because it was considered quicker and more humane than the previous form of state execution, which was beheading. Sure, a beheading could be quick too, provided the headsman was skilled, the blade was sharp enough to go through with a single whack, and the soon to be much shorter person kept perfectly still. But such things were the exception rather than the rule, leading to many an execution turning into horrendous affairs where the headsman basically hacked the poor bastard to death.

This is a video of the last public execution by guillotine carried out in France in 1939, but the last execution by guillotine in France was in 1977.

I’m putting it inside spoiler tags on general principle. It’s a sobering thing to see a man put to death.

Spoiler

Youtube Video

RBS

213 dog philosopher  Apr 29, 2014 7:34:23pm

re: #203 Pie-onist Overlord

somebody please convey this sentiment to mr erickson for me for his edification:

#38 The Ghost of a Flea

We’re not running some kind of state-certified revenge system.

214 thedopefishlives  Apr 29, 2014 7:34:48pm

re: #211 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

Again, no, it isn’t. The Hippocratic Oath bans, for example, lithotomies and abortions. Physicians have a modern code, the Declaration of Geneva:

At the time of being admitted as a member of the medical profession:

Bolded the ones that are most often seen as conflicting with the death penalty.

Really, guys, read the Hippocratic Oath. Good for it’s time, but really dated.

Gee, I’m sorry for following the popular misconception. I’ll step out now. Night Lizards.

215 Stanley Sea  Apr 29, 2014 7:35:02pm

re: #181 HappyWarrior

Wait Joe Walsh actually making sense. Still an asshole though but I’ll give him credit for this stopped clock moment.

He’s doing it for ratings. That dude has a raisin brain.

216 klys  Apr 29, 2014 7:35:11pm

re: #214 thedopefishlives

Gee, I’m sorry for following the popular misconception. I’ll step out now. Night Lizards.

G’night, fishfolk.

217 nines09  Apr 29, 2014 7:35:44pm

re: #9 wrenchwench

There may be criminals who deserve death, but better to imprison them for life than to participate in killing. The chance of killing the wrong person, or of botching the killing as in this case makes the death penalty untenable.

I once strongly believed in the Death Penalty in certain instances. I have come to my conclusion that one innocent life lost is not worth the revenge that Capital Punishment is. Send them to a dark room for the rest of their lives. That is worse. And the other truly insane thing about this “system” they have is the fact that hundreds of people overdose on drugs each day. Some are murdered with drugs. One “hot shot” bag of smack would kill the accused more humanely and quicker than this Frankenstein bullshit they have cooked up.

218 Gus  Apr 29, 2014 7:37:51pm
219 Belafon  Apr 29, 2014 7:38:14pm

re: #203 Pie-onist Overlord

I want to thank who ever showed me this story. I don’t think you can use it for every story, but it’s pretty damning.

220 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Apr 29, 2014 7:39:56pm

re: #214 thedopefishlives

Gee, I’m sorry for following the popular misconception. I’ll step out now. Night Lizards.

The interesting thing is even though people say “The Hippocratic Oath” when you ask them what they think it is, they talk about stuff that’s more similar to the Declaration of Geneva. “Hippocratic Oath” is just shorthand for ‘Doctor ethics’ to most people. But really, there’s far more to medical ethics than could be summed up in that list, it’s one of the most tangled, and really frankly depressing, set of ethical concerns.

In normal ethics, you sometimes get to decide, like, how to split up these twenty wonderful apple pies. In medical ethics, you get to decide how to factor in intense depression into the nature of consent to risky surgery.

221 HappyWarrior  Apr 29, 2014 7:40:54pm

re: #219 Belafon

[Embedded content]

I want to thank who ever showed me this story. I don’t think you can use it for every story, but it’s pretty damning.

And Erick being the “good Christian” he is probably thinks the woman deserves to die. If people like Erickson really really cared about abortion, they wouldn’t oppose teaching sex ed, they wouldn’t flip out over contraceptives, and they would actually care about helping poor and unwed mothers out instead of calling them sluts. Erickson doesn’t care about babies or innocents at all. He cares about controlling people.

222 Gus  Apr 29, 2014 7:42:52pm

re: #221 HappyWarrior

And Erick being the “good Christian” he is probably thinks the woman deserves to die. If people like Erickson really really cared about abortion, they wouldn’t oppose teaching sex ed, they wouldn’t flip out over contraceptives, and they would actually care about helping poor and unwed mothers out instead of calling them sluts. Erickson doesn’t care about babies or innocents at all. He cares about controlling people.

If not die at least spending 1 billion years burning and being tortured in hell after death.

223 jvic  Apr 29, 2014 7:43:08pm

Iirc I’ve posted along these lines before:

1. I changed my mind about the death penalty when way too many convictions were revealed as false.

2. I still think that a few crimes are so vile that the death penalty should not be eliminated altogether if guilt is certain.

3. Afaic the Constitutional prohibition of cruel and unusual punishment is not primarily for the good of criminals, but for the good of society.

4. Afaic the botched execution deserves federal scrutiny. I’m not sure criminal negligence was involved, and I’m not sure it wasn’t.

224 Dark_Falcon  Apr 29, 2014 7:44:06pm

re: #68 Political Atheist

You make an excellent point. If we must do this (and I find myself wishing we would just not) Why not a general anesthetic. Just like surgery. Then a quick zap with the cardio paddles and it’s light out, no pain, no convulsions.

That having been said if we perfect a way of painless killing, will we set the stage for too many executions? Let’s just ditch the death penalty. Accept that from time to time a really horrible person will make us wish we had not. That’s okay.

Too quiet, too medical. I really favor hanging myself, since it makes it clear the person in question is being killed and it can be done reliably with proper procedures.

225 Gus  Apr 29, 2014 7:44:29pm
226 klys  Apr 29, 2014 7:45:51pm

re: #224 Dark_Falcon

Too quiet, too medical. I really favor hanging myself, since it makes it clear the person in question is being killed and it can be done reliably with proper procedures.

I favor not fucking killing people.

Suffocation is a horrible way to die.

227 HappyWarrior  Apr 29, 2014 7:45:57pm

re: #225 Gus

[Embedded content]

That’s embarrassing.

228 Dark_Falcon  Apr 29, 2014 7:46:37pm

re: #226 klys

I favor not fucking killing people.

Suffocation is a horrible way to die.

A properly done hanging kills by breaking the neck, not by suffocation.

229 HappyWarrior  Apr 29, 2014 7:46:54pm

re: #226 klys

I favor not fucking killing people.

Suffocation is a horrible way to die.

Same. And honestly I think it’s just as much punishment if not more so to send someone to jail for the rest of their life. I have no problem with LWOP sentences but death I have a problem with for so many reasons.

230 klys  Apr 29, 2014 7:47:19pm

re: #228 Dark_Falcon

A properly done hanging kills by breaking the neck, not by suffocation.

The irony of this being posted on an article about a botched execution cannot be overstated.

231 jamesfirecat  Apr 29, 2014 7:49:03pm

Dr Killjoy: When performing a lethal injection, it is essential that the needles be placed with absolute precision. And unlike standard medical procedures, with a lethal injection you have a patient who probably does not want the procedure to occur. Therefore, it is of vital importance that the restraints be tight and strong. Even with that, trouble may arise, and it may be incumbent for the practitioner to take matters into his own hands, using whatever sharp, bladed objects he may have on his person. Lacerations…
(He abruptly slashes the inmate across the chest with a scalpel.)
Killjoy: …to the body at strategic locations…
(He slashes the inmate again.)
Killjoy: …may put the patient into a state of shock…
(He slashes the inmate one last time; the inmate screams, and passes out.)
Killjoy: making him far more pliable, or at the very least, causing him to bleed to death, thus achieving the desired end. Who are we kidding? We’re not really trying to be humane anyway. Class dismissed.

An appropriate scene from The Suffering.

232 Dark_Falcon  Apr 29, 2014 7:49:06pm

re: #230 klys

The irony of this being posted on an article about a botched execution cannot be overstated.

Oklahoma screwed up and that needs to be investigated, but it doesn’t change my basic position.

233 HappyWarrior  Apr 29, 2014 7:49:32pm

re: #230 klys

The irony of this being posted on an article about a botched execution cannot be overstated.

Especially when talking about hanging which has over the centuries had its share of botchings. I really would prefer to just do away with CP all together. I really feel that the DP isn’t justice. It’s just an outdated form of punishment from a time where things like Iron Maidens existed.

234 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Apr 29, 2014 7:51:30pm

re: #223 jvic

2. I still think that a few crimes are so vile that the death penalty should not be eliminated altogether if guilt is certain.

There’s no way to codify this legally, though. I mean, supposedly we’re doing that now.

235 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Apr 29, 2014 7:51:52pm

re: #232 Dark_Falcon

Oklahoma screwed up and that needs to be investigated, but it doesn’t change my basic position.

Do you understand that innocent people are inevitably executed when you have the death penalty?

236 b_sharp  Apr 29, 2014 7:52:26pm

re: #226 klys

I favor not fucking killing people.

Suffocation is a horrible way to die.

Cerebral hypoxia using something like nitrogen (but not CO2) is painless and doesn’t trigger panic.

237 goddamnedfrank  Apr 29, 2014 7:52:36pm

re: #232 Dark_Falcon

Oklahoma screwed up and that needs to be investigated, but it doesn’t change my basic position.

Which is, at best, a counter productive position. Death penalty with modern American “safeguards” will always cost far more than life without parole, and even still we execute innocent people.

238 Backwoods_Sleuth  Apr 29, 2014 7:53:14pm

kittens…

239 b_sharp  Apr 29, 2014 7:53:38pm

re: #235 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

Do you understand that innocent people are inevitably executed when you have the death penalty?

That’s the reason Canada stopped hanging people.

There has been some rumblings from the right wanting it back.

240 HappyWarrior  Apr 29, 2014 7:54:21pm

The thing about crime is how barbaric politicians will go to show how “tough” they are on crime. More prisons. More executions. Less chances of redemption. You name it. Everything getting at the real causes of crime in the first place.

241 Stanley Sea  Apr 29, 2014 7:54:26pm

Tell me when you’ve all read it (it’s short)

then i’ll stop

242 Backwoods_Sleuth  Apr 29, 2014 7:54:42pm

5.24 inches of rain in 45 minutes reported in Pensacola.
YIKES!

243 goddamnedfrank  Apr 29, 2014 7:54:46pm

re: #236 b_sharp

Cerebral hypoxia using something like nitrogen (but not CO2) is painless and doesn’t trigger panic.

You sure about that? Guy knows he’s about to be executed. He’s been sealed in a airtight chamber and read the warrant, given an opportunity for his last words. Then the N2 comes in, as he starts to feel light headed I’m pretty sure there’s a whole shit load of panic accompanying the experience.

244 TedStriker  Apr 29, 2014 7:54:49pm

re: #233 HappyWarrior

Especially when talking about hanging which has over the centuries had its share of botchings. I really would prefer to just do away with CP all together. I really feel that the DP isn’t justice. It’s just an outdated form of punishment from a time where things like Iron Maidens existed.

Here’s the thing; many historians are coming to the opinion that many iron maidens may have never been used for their intended purpose, but were mostly constructed as showpieces for museums.

en.wikipedia.org

245 HappyWarrior  Apr 29, 2014 7:54:59pm

re: #239 b_sharp

That’s the reason Canada stopped hanging people.

There has been some rumblings from the right wanting it back.

That’s a good reason as any to abolish it IMO. That was always my big problem with the DP from an early age and viewing of The Green Mile.

246 Targetpractice  Apr 29, 2014 7:55:06pm

re: #239 b_sharp

That’s the reason Canada stopped hanging people.

There has been some rumblings from the right wanting it back.

And I imagine that, when capital punishment ends in this nation, it will not be unanimous and it will be the tune of a lot of grumbling that it’s “better” to simply execute them than have them live “the good life” behind bars for the rest of their days.

247 Stanley Sea  Apr 29, 2014 7:55:40pm

re: #236 b_sharp

you missed my comment and tweet. so sad.

or maybe you saw it and :(

248 HappyWarrior  Apr 29, 2014 7:55:48pm

re: #244 TedStriker

Here’s the thing; many historians are coming to the opinion that many iron maidens may have never been used for their intended purpose, but were mostly constructed as showpieces for museums.

en.wikipedia.org

Ah did not know that. Just used the IM since that was the first medieval torture device that came to mind.

249 palomino  Apr 29, 2014 7:56:20pm

re: #179 dog philosopher

the jesus, let me explain to you how it works

Yes, what a shock that a fundamentalist douchebag like Erickson thinks HIS understanding of Jesus is the one and only true interpretation.

He’s always pissed about some white and/or southern thing. I guess it’s pretty hard to get over a war that your side lost 149 years ago.

250 Targetpractice  Apr 29, 2014 7:59:51pm

re: #245 HappyWarrior

That’s a good reason as any to abolish it IMO. That was always my big problem with the DP from an early age and viewing of The Green Mile.

Funny, I was thinking of the exact same movie. Specifically the scene where the little prick of a junior guard decides he’s gonna get one over on the inmate by putting a dry sponge on his head during electrocution. I thought of it because that’s the sort of attitude that guys like Erickson have put on display tonight, the idea that execution is supposed to be painful and getting upset over it doesn’t make it any less “right.”

251 HappyWarrior  Apr 29, 2014 7:59:53pm

re: #249 palomino

Yes, what a shock that a fundamentalist douchebag like Erickson thinks HIS understanding of Jesus is the one and only true interpretation.

He’s always pissed about some white and/or southern thing. I guess it’s pretty hard to get over a war that your side lost 149 years ago.

I like how he tries to portray himself as this pious man. He’s so full of shit that I think he believes in his own bullshit.

252 Gus  Apr 29, 2014 8:01:08pm

Wait. So basically the State of Oklahoma now has it’s very own Chemical Squadron?

253 Targetpractice  Apr 29, 2014 8:01:11pm

re: #251 HappyWarrior

I like how he tries to portray himself as this pious man. He’s so full of shit that I think he believes in his own bullshit.

I’ve said it many a time that Erickson missed his true calling as a clergyman. Wouldn’t surprise me to find out that, on Sundays, he’s belching fire and brimstone at the local Southern Baptist church.

254 palomino  Apr 29, 2014 8:01:39pm

re: #224 Dark_Falcon

Too quiet, too medical. I really favor hanging myself, since it makes it clear the person in question is being killed and it can be done reliably with proper procedures.

You’re on the wrong side of history again.

Disagree? Tell me how being in a group of nations led by China, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Pakistan, Yemen, Libya, Vietnam, and NORTH Korea puts you on the RIGHT side of history. Are any of those places known for civil rights, equality, freedom, fair legal systems, etc? No, they’re the top human rights abusers in the world. And yet you’re perfectly happy to have your own country lumped right in the middle with them?

255 HappyWarrior  Apr 29, 2014 8:02:13pm

re: #250 Targetpractice

Funny, I was thinking of the exact same movie. Specifically the scene where the little prick of a junior guard decides he’s gonna get one over on the inmate by putting a dry sponge on his head during electrocution. I thought of it because that’s the sort of attitude that guys like Erickson have put on display tonight, the idea that execution is supposed to be painful and getting upset over it doesn’t make it any less “right.”

Oh man that scene, that scene. But good point about the DP being wrong for revenge reasons. I don’t know if King intended the novella to invoke thought on the DP by the way but it just struck a chord in my then 12 year old mind about the DP and then that combined with reading about how Texas was under then Governor Bush. You got someone who’s pretty sure in his convictions. It’s tough because you just feel for the families of murder victims, you really do but I as you’re getting at don’t feel that revenge is “right”

256 Backwoods_Sleuth  Apr 29, 2014 8:04:45pm

Raining again, so I’ll let the sound of it falling on the metal roof lull me to sleep.
Laters all….

257 Dark_Falcon  Apr 29, 2014 8:05:02pm

I’m going to log off for the night. My views on this issue are different from the majority of the group and rather than be the skunk at the garden party I’m just going to take my leave.

258 RealityBasedSteve  Apr 29, 2014 8:06:38pm

I’m outta here… catch you all later.

RBS

259 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Apr 29, 2014 8:09:46pm

re: #257 Dark_Falcon

I’m going to log off for the night. My views on this issue are different from the majority of the group and rather than be the skunk at the garden party I’m just going to take my leave.

I think another part of this is that you can’t actually construct a coherent defense of the death penalty.

260 TedStriker  Apr 29, 2014 8:15:57pm

re: #259 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

I think another part of this is that you can’t actually construct a coherent defense of the death penalty.

While I did complement D_F yesterday on having more balls and intellectual honesty than “shoot-and-scoot” Buck, D_F certainly has his own “Brave Sir Robin” moments.

Like this one.

261 Shiplord Kirel  Apr 29, 2014 8:16:42pm

re: #228 Dark_Falcon

A properly done hanging kills by breaking the neck, not by suffocation.

There have been a hell of a lot of botched hangings over the years, some of them by supposed experts.
You could always use an extra long drop to combine hanging with decapitation, just to be sure. The mess would require fire hoses to clean up though.
Tom “Black Jack” Ketchum was perhaps the best known victim of such a gruesome error, thanks largely to some graphic photos that were distributed as post cards.
Eva Dugan was decapitated when her hanging was botched in Arizona in 1930. Her head snapped off and rolled to the feet of the various spectators. This ugly incident led directly to the state of Arizona adopting the gas chamber instead. Gassing was probably worse for the deceased than Eva’s sudden demise, but a great deal less disturbing to the witnesses.
As recently as 2007. Saddam henchman Barzan Ibrahim al-Tikriti was decapitated when incorrect measurements led to too long a drop being used in his hanging.

262 teleskiguy  Apr 29, 2014 8:19:18pm

These wingnuts are nothing if not predictable.

263 HappyWarrior  Apr 29, 2014 8:20:07pm

re: #262 teleskiguy

These wingnuts are nothing if not predictable.

[Embedded content]

Yeah that whole cruel and unusual punishment ban. That’s not in the Constitution at all.

264 jaunte  Apr 29, 2014 8:21:48pm
265 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Apr 29, 2014 8:22:57pm

re: #261 Shiplord Kirel

It’s a simple scientific and engineering truth: You can’t get good at one-offs. Unless we’re executing a ton of people and getting really good data on it all, we’re never going to get actually scientific about executing people.

And again, there’s the walk up, the noose around your neck, that absolute existential dread.

266 Gus  Apr 29, 2014 8:23:47pm
267 HappyWarrior  Apr 29, 2014 8:24:20pm

re: #264 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Yep. Anyone celebrating this who proclaims themselves a believer in the Constitution needs to have that pressed into their memory.

268 DKoch  Apr 29, 2014 8:25:17pm

re: #249 palomino

They’re all AM radio shock-jocks. that’s their schtick. say something “shocking” to bait people into noticing them.

it’s what talentless wingnuts do, whether it’s Coulter or Palin.

responding or reacting to them is what they want.

269 HappyWarrior  Apr 29, 2014 8:26:55pm

re: #268 DKoch

They’re all AM radio shock-jocks. that’s their schtick. say something “shocking” to bait people into noticing them.

it’s what talentless wingnuts do, whether it’s Coulter or Palin.

responding or reacting to them is what they want.

This will infuriate the liberals.//

270 Gus  Apr 29, 2014 8:27:08pm

re: #264 jaunte

[Embedded content]

271 Targetpractice  Apr 29, 2014 8:30:50pm

re: #262 teleskiguy

These wingnuts are nothing if not predictable.

[Embedded content]

And if the guy hadn’t died from heart attack, they’d agree it was botched…and then call for his ass to be strapped back to the table for another run. He’s sentenced to die, and in their minds, that gives the state unlimited tries to kill his ass. Hell, they really would be okay with just taking him out back and putting a bullet in his brain, just so long as they weren’t the ones forced to pull the trigger.

272 Belafon  Apr 29, 2014 8:31:23pm

re: #268 DKoch

But, but, someone is wrong on the internet.

273 b_sharp  Apr 29, 2014 8:37:10pm

re: #243 goddamnedfrank

You sure about that? Guy knows he’s about to be executed. He’s been sealed in a airtight chamber and read the warrant, given an opportunity for his last words. Then the N2 comes in, as he starts to feel light headed I’m pretty sure there’s a whole shit load of panic accompanying the experience.

CO2 trigger panic.
Nitrogen hypoxia confuses the mind so panic subsides.

274 Shiplord Kirel  Apr 29, 2014 8:38:33pm

Eegad! Ran across this while researching the various hangings listed in my #261
Executed Today
This is a day-by-day rundown, with highlights, of the anniversaries of various executions. There are multiple entries for every day of the year.

275 Gus  Apr 29, 2014 8:39:26pm
276 Decatur Deb  Apr 29, 2014 8:39:29pm

The ‘botch’ distracts from the core problem: A perfectly performed execution, in which the condemned disappears in a shower of rose petals, is just about as barbaric.

277 b_sharp  Apr 29, 2014 8:39:49pm

re: #247 Stanley Sea

you missed my comment and tweet. so sad.

[Embedded content]

or maybe you saw it and :(

My point is they already know how to painlessly kill people but that’s not what they want. They want the pain and suffering.

278 ObserverArt  Apr 29, 2014 8:40:31pm

I don’t know, it must be the Catholic boy in me…even though I am mostly a non-practitioner. I’ve always had a problem with the death penalty due to those rather old stone tablet things called the Ten Commandments.

Yeah, thou shall not kill.

So, depending on how you view them as religious or even ancient humanistic law how do all those people that believe in them forget them?

Safe way to go in so many ways…kill the death penalty.

Forget about killing innocents. Check.
Forget about botched killings. Check.
Forget about being part of a big sin against your god. Check.
Forget about all the trial costs and delays. Check.
Forget about not all of society being behind it. Check.

279 NJDhockeyfan  Apr 29, 2014 8:41:43pm
280 jaunte  Apr 29, 2014 8:43:17pm

re: #275 Gus

Maureen Dowd folks.

Speaking of cruel and unusual.

281 NJDhockeyfan  Apr 29, 2014 8:47:24pm
282 Gus  Apr 29, 2014 8:48:38pm

re: #280 jaunte

Speaking of cruel and unusual.

Barry. Guess I should call her Maureen Dowdy from now on. //

283 jaunte  Apr 29, 2014 8:51:09pm
284 Sherlock Hound  Apr 29, 2014 8:53:21pm

re: #10 Varek Raith

The abyss often says to some of us, “Dude, you’re creeping ME out!”

285 NJDhockeyfan  Apr 29, 2014 8:54:09pm

re: #242 Backwoods_Sleuth

5.24 inches of rain in 45 minutes reported in Pensacola.
YIKES!

286 klys  Apr 29, 2014 8:55:39pm

Tumblr may be the home of some very o.O things but it also brings me a recipe for homemade Oreos in an entertaining style.

(Ok, I mostly love this because occasionally my sister and I have conversations that sound very much like this.)

I THOUGHT THIS FILLING WOULD BE DIFFICULT TO MAKE WHEN I FIRST TRIED THIS, BUT IT’S SO EASY, GUYS, MY SISTER COULD DO IT AND MY SISTER BROKE THREE MICROWAVES BY FORGETTING TO TAKE THE FORK OUT.

287 DKoch  Apr 29, 2014 8:56:14pm

re: #275 Gus

This is what she’s whining about. Fixxed News tried to insult him during yesterday’s presser and as usual, he made a monkey out of them, calling out the warmongers for stupidity.

on.msnbc.com

Modo hated it, but Rachel loved it.

modo is a bygone relic of the dead media age. I can’t remember the last time someone mentioned her.

she has 103K twitter followers to Paul Krugman’s 1.2 million followers and Rachel Maddow’s 2.9 million followers. her irrelevancy must really get under the has-been’s Estée Lauder treated skin.

288 Kragar  Apr 29, 2014 8:56:20pm
289 Targetpractice  Apr 29, 2014 9:03:12pm

re: #288 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Ruin A Video Game? One word: Daikatana.

290 GeneJockey  Apr 29, 2014 9:08:50pm

re: #249 palomino

Yes, what a shock that a fundamentalist douchebag like Erickson thinks HIS understanding of Jesus is the one and only true interpretation.

He’s always pissed about some white and/or southern thing. I guess it’s pretty hard to get over a war that your side lost 149 years ago.

Remember, Erickson’s the asshole who said Jesus could throw a punch.

291 klys  Apr 29, 2014 9:08:52pm

re: #289 Targetpractice

Ruin A Video Game? One word: Daikatana.

I thought the concept was it needed to be good to start with.

292 Targetpractice  Apr 29, 2014 9:11:13pm

re: #291 klys

I thought the concept was it needed to be good to start with.

If you listen to the guys from Ion Storm tell it, it was a great idea in the beginning. Then John Romero decided he was bigger than Jesus and we know the rest of the story.

293 Gus  Apr 29, 2014 9:23:25pm

Jim Reeves - Welcome To My World

Youtube Video

294 klys  Apr 29, 2014 9:27:45pm

Youtube Video

I think lots of people on the Internet know Maru, but I hadn’t realized that Hana had joined in the fun!

295 Targetpractice  Apr 29, 2014 9:27:57pm

Why does it not surprise me to pull up RS and see that Erick, Son of Erick, completely missed the point of Kareem Abdul-Jabbar’s to play the ever scary “precedent” card, claiming now that anybody can get any NBA team owner fined and banned for life simply by catching them on tape saying “controversial” things and then making them public.

What’s sad about the editorial is that there’s actually a good point in Erickson’s little bit, that it should not have taken the NBA until this tape became public before it decided that it could no longer be associated with Sterling. That he was a racist who was also keeping a mistress were open secrets that the NBA did nothing about until he got caught saying something they couldn’t sweep under the rug.

296 jaunte  Apr 29, 2014 9:28:54pm

NH couple, after Bundy standoff, married at Nevada ranch

With guns holstered but eyes vigilant, a New Hampshire couple who traveled to Nevada to defend the ranch of Cliven Bundy exchanged vows last week.
…..snip……
The wedding party and guests opted for sparkling apple juice over champagne.
“We want everyone to be as clear-headed as we can be,” said DeLemus, a former Marine and leader of the Rochester 9/12 Project.

297 jaunte  Apr 29, 2014 9:31:27pm

The wedding party wore the customary camo.

298 TedStriker  Apr 29, 2014 9:38:29pm

re: #265 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

It’s a simple scientific and engineering truth: You can’t get good at one-offs. Unless we’re executing a ton of people and getting really good data on it all, we’re never going to get actually scientific about executing people.

And again, there’s the walk up, the noose around your neck, that absolute existential dread.

That’s what made the Nazis’ Final Solution such a unspeakably horrible thing, something that led to the Nuremberg trials and to the execution or imprisoning of those responsible: The Nazis got their military-industrial complex behind it, they got really, really good in carrying it out, and they tended to keep meticulous records of it all.

Never again.

299 EmmaAnne  Apr 29, 2014 9:43:12pm

re: #41 Gus

[Embedded content]

Hey look! The CSA.

It looks like the peak for favoring the death penalty was right around when McVeigh was being tried. That was the peak of my support for the death penalty too. I think I have reached the end of it.

300 Gus  Apr 29, 2014 9:44:05pm
301 TedStriker  Apr 29, 2014 9:44:36pm

re: #300 Gus

[Embedded content]

Rawrrrrr indeed.

302 Kragar  Apr 29, 2014 9:46:10pm

This weeks project: Ministorum Priests and Primaris Psykers.

303 Sherlock Hound  Apr 29, 2014 9:48:12pm

re: #155 Gus

Erick’s proving my own point! I think he and other anti-abortion advocats secretly delight in giving those lurid depictions of abortions. They get off on that! Somewhere a poor aborted fetus is magically leaving the posterboard and quietly telling Erick, “dude, you’re scaring us!”

304 Swift2991  Apr 29, 2014 9:49:22pm

In Canada, they have a 25 year punishment for murder. I believe there may be murderers that get longer sentences for serial murder, and the like. Nobody gets the death penalty. I’ll put Canada’s justice system up against ours for humaneness and protection of the citizens.

305 Amory Blaine  Apr 29, 2014 9:49:50pm

re: #282 Gus

Barry. Guess I should call her Maureen Dowdy from now on. //

I saw her headline while reading this amusing article from Krugman. I did not click.

306 Targetpractice  Apr 29, 2014 9:51:44pm

re: #303 Sherlock Hound

Erick’s proving my own point! I think he and other anti-abortion advocats secretly delight in giving those lurid depictions of abortions. They get off on that! Somewhere a poor aborted fetus is magically leaving the posterboard and quietly telling Erick, “dude, you’re scaring us!”

That’s because the success of the “pro-life” movement largely relies upon invoking an emotional response in people, particularly women. Thus the insistence on portraying all abortions as ones with a fully-formed fetus that’s removed in bits and pieces, when in reality that vast majority of abortions are done so early in the pregnancy that what comes out is little more than a glob of cells.

307 TedStriker  Apr 29, 2014 9:52:09pm

As an aside, as a nerd, I feel that it is my duty to post this, just in case no one else has:

The gang’s all here (mostly)…

Star Wars: Episode VII Cast Announced

308 Gus  Apr 29, 2014 9:54:22pm

I can now buy marijuana at will in Colorado. Still haven’t done so. That’s still kind of a hoot though.

309 Gus  Apr 29, 2014 10:00:23pm

Crosby, Stills & Nash - Southern Cross

Youtube Video

310 TedStriker  Apr 29, 2014 10:03:05pm

re: #309 Gus

Crosby, Stills & Nash - Southern Cross

[Embedded content]

When you see the Southern Cross for the first time
You understand now why you came this way
‘Cause the truth you might be runnin’ from is so small
But it’s as big as the promise, the promise of a comin’ day

So I’m sailing for tomorrow, my dreams are a-dyin’
And my love is an anchor tied to you, tied with a silver chain
I have my ship and all her flags are a-flyin’
She is all that I have left, and music is her name

One of my favorite CSN (and sometimes Y) songs; however, I’m also quite partial to “Dark Star”:

Youtube Video

311 TedStriker  Apr 29, 2014 10:05:36pm

…

312 Political Atheist  Apr 29, 2014 10:08:57pm
313 TedStriker  Apr 29, 2014 10:13:19pm

Youtube Video

Youtube Video

Youtube Video

314 Gus  Apr 29, 2014 10:13:26pm

Thought this was a hoot. Read the jacket.

315 Gus  Apr 29, 2014 10:18:26pm

Thought that was kind of neat.

316 Gus  Apr 29, 2014 10:19:13pm

I had a Tweep with 150K followers thank me last night for following me. Kind of a trip. :D

317 freetoken  Apr 29, 2014 10:25:19pm

re: #307 TedStriker

If only… there could be a Star Wars VII: Real Lives, where the truth could be revealed about the characters 40 years on:

1 - Han Solo is a homeless addict living under dumpsters which are floating in the sky;
2 - Luke Skywalker is on his third wife, one child by each wife, and another two by his long time mistress whose youngest child is the one with the most midichlorians;
3 - Princess Leia was convicted on 22 counts of accepting bribes and is in the midst of serving her jail terms;
4 - C3PO, needing employment once Leia was thrown in jail, turns towards proffering cyber-sex to the highest bidder every night;
5 - Chewbaca is now, in old age, mostly hairless and has had 2 hip replacement surgeries;
6 - R2D2 now entertains children at the local shopping complex.

318 TedStriker  Apr 29, 2014 10:29:34pm

re: #317 freetoken

If only… there could be a Star Wars VII: Real Lives, where the truth could be revealed about the characters 40 years on:

1 - Han Solo is a homeless addict living under dumpsters which are floating in the sky;
2 - Luke Skywalker is on his third wife, one child by each wife, and another two by his long time mistress whose youngest child is the one with the most midichlorians;
3 - Princess Leia was convicted on 22 counts of accepting bribes and is the midst of serving her turns;
4 - C3PO, needing employment once Leia was thrown in jail, turns towards proffering cyber-sex to the highest bidder every night;
5 - Chewbaca is now, in old age, mostly hairless and has had 2 hip replacement surgeries;
6 - R2D2 now entertains children at the local shopping complex.

37 years since A New Hope came out….37 freaking years.

I was 2.

Now, I’m depressed.

319 freetoken  Apr 29, 2014 10:31:37pm

Oh, I forgot one:

7 - Lando Calrissian, now retired, spends his time competing in amateur dance contests aboard intergalactic cruise lines, but always comes up at the bottom of the points.

320 TedStriker  Apr 29, 2014 10:32:13pm

re: #319 freetoken

Oh, I forgot one:

7 - Lando Calrissian, now retired, spends his time competing in amateur dance contests aboard intergalactic cruise lines, but always comes up at the bottom of the points.

Hehe.

321 freetoken  Apr 29, 2014 10:50:01pm

A not too long read, reveals just one example of the mindlessness of the denial-o-sphere:

PLAYING CLIMATE-CHANGE TELEPHONE

322 Lidane  Apr 29, 2014 10:55:07pm

Dear Neighbor,

I’m sorry your girlfriend/wife got drunk and left you tonight. Thanks for calling the cops and insisting that she must have been at my house because her car was parked nearby. I just love having a cop knock on my door at midnight to check my ID to make sure I’m not her.

Be thankful that she isn’t driving, let her cool down, and let her sleep off the hangover. And solve your own goddamn problems next time without getting me involved in your drama. Asshole.

No love,
Me

323 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Apr 29, 2014 11:02:59pm

re: #161 Gus

Joe Walsh @WalshFreedom

I don’t trust the government to kill any citizen as a punishment. It’s why I don’t support the death penalty.
2:45 AM - 30 Apr 2014

This makes sense on the surface, but if you press him closer, I think the idea is “Let’s bring back lynch mobs!”

324 TedStriker  Apr 29, 2014 11:04:44pm

Youtube Video

Youtube Video

325 Gus  Apr 29, 2014 11:23:05pm

Cruisin’ - Smokey Robinson

Youtube Video

326 TedStriker  Apr 29, 2014 11:25:38pm

Youtube Video

327 Gus  Apr 29, 2014 11:31:12pm

BOB MARLEY THREE LITTLE BIRDS

Youtube Video

328 Decatur Deb  Apr 30, 2014 12:22:01am

re: #322 Lidane

Dear Neighbor,

I’m sorry your girlfriend/wife got drunk and left you tonight. Thanks for calling the cops and insisting that she must have been at my house because her car was parked nearby. I just love having a cop knock on my door at midnight to check my ID to make sure I’m not her.

Be thankful that she isn’t driving, let her cool down, and let her sleep off the hangover. And solve your own goddamn problems next time without getting me involved in your drama. Asshole.

No love,
Me

I see your soap opera and raise you a tornado—got one at the edge of town, going the other way. All the weather that was at Pensacola is here. Worst of it is heading to Tallahassee FL and Albany GA right now. 2 AM coffee in the pot.

329 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Apr 30, 2014 12:28:37am

re: #322 Lidane

I love it when people have to drag the whole world into their petty domestic dramas. My ex was big on that…

330 TedStriker  Apr 30, 2014 12:32:00am

Here’s something pretty damn cool, Adam Savage interviewing Vince Gilligan:

Youtube Video

331 Kragar  Apr 30, 2014 12:37:35am

re: #327 Gus

Youtube Video

332 Lidane  Apr 30, 2014 12:50:36am

re: #329 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

I love it when people have to drag the whole world into their petty domestic dramas. My ex was big on that…

The cop was not amused. He was all apologetic about knocking on my door so late and getting me involved. I could hear him talk to the idiot neighbor after leaving my house. He flat out said he was going to call dispatch and say it was a domestic dispute and that he considered the matter closed. When the idiot neighbor tried to argue the point the cop said that he had a real job to do and then took off.

What a weird night. I have never had anything like that happen before.

333 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Apr 30, 2014 12:57:19am

re: #332 Lidane

our domestic disputes were minor, but my ex was big about dragging people into them to prove that she was not at fault.

a discussion centered once on her doctor’s appointment for the following morning. I just wanted to know when I would have to be watching the kids. I then made the mistake of saying “I think it’s at 10am.” (it was in her calendar on her desk, she could not be bothered to gt up and check.)

In any case, I got up early with young kids the next morning, she slept in, woke up too late (the appointment was at 9:30) and I heard her on the phone explaining “I cannot make my appointment because my husband told me the wrong time!”

334 Decatur Deb  Apr 30, 2014 12:58:11am

Our nearer tornado has spun down. Good news for the thinly-settled AL/GA/FL border area. No sense going back to bed with a mug of coffee on board.

335 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Apr 30, 2014 1:00:12am

re: #334 Decatur Deb

Our nearer tornado has spun down. Good news for the thinly-settled AL/GA/FL border area. No sense going back to bed with a mug of coffee on board.

“thinly settled” means “lots of isolated mobile homes”?

336 Decatur Deb  Apr 30, 2014 1:06:45am

re: #335 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

“thinly settled” means “lots of isolated mobile homes”?

Peanut, cotton, soybean farmers—some quite poor. We build Habitat houses there to get them out of the overcrowded trailers. Our best builds are like dandelions if an F2 hits.

(Weather Channel is reporting yesterday’s Alabama storms—one was an F4.)

337 Lidane  Apr 30, 2014 1:26:41am

re: #328 Decatur Deb

I see your soap opera and raise you a tornado—got one at the edge of town, going the other way. All the weather that was at Pensacola is here. Worst of it is heading to Tallahassee FL and Albany GA right now. 2 AM coffee in the pot.

I’ll take a dozen idiotic domestic soap operas over a single tornado. I grew up in Houston so I remember when hurricanes would hit. I don’t miss that at all. Tornadoes? No thanks.

Stay safe out there.

338 Decatur Deb  Apr 30, 2014 1:33:23am

re: #337 Lidane

I’ll take a dozen idiotic domestic soap operas over a single tornado. I grew up in Houston so I remember when hurricanes would hit. I don’t miss that at all. Tornadoes? No thanks.

Stay safe out there.

If only the Weather Channel could tell you when your neighbor was going to lose their shit…

339 Decatur Deb  Apr 30, 2014 1:55:57am

All our warnings are downgraded except the flash flooding—we’ve been getting 2-3” per hour. Got a canoe. And a bed.

‘Nite, all.

340 Justanotherhuman  Apr 30, 2014 3:19:42am

I should state that I am unequivocally against the death penalty. Spending the rest of one’s life in jail, being deprived of one’s liberty and fearing for one’s own life should be enough, shouldn’t it?

Besides, isn’t the saying supposed to be “Vengeance is mine, sayeth the Lord”, not “Vengeance is mine, sayeth the State of ______”?

341 Timothy Watson  Apr 30, 2014 3:31:09am

Out of curiosity, has the GOP pledged to not pass any funding for disaster relief until they find offsets in the budget? In addition, have they suggested that if people don’t want to put up with the damage from tornadoes and its aftermath, maybe they shouldn’t live in tornado alley?

342 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Apr 30, 2014 3:32:31am

re: #340 Justanotherhuman

It looks good on a lot of politicians’ records to say that they rid the community of X dangerous killers. People want Law and order, and they also want Low Taxes. That is the system they wind up with.

343 Justanotherhuman  Apr 30, 2014 3:36:04am

re: #297 jaunte

The wedding party wore the customary obligatory camo.

FTFY.

Don’t know why these types don’t just join the US military. Oh, wait.

We know they really all hate this country.

DD, still up and storm watching? : ) Joining you for coffee.

344 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Apr 30, 2014 3:46:33am

re: #295 Targetpractice

That he was a racist who was also keeping a mistress were open secrets that the NBA did nothing about until he got caught saying something they couldn’t sweep under the rug.

It has little to do with principles, it is just disastrous for business to have such a massive, blatant racist running one of their teams.

345 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Apr 30, 2014 3:51:00am

re: #344 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

It has little to do with principles, it is just disastrous for business to have such a massive, blatant racist running one of their teams.

It is interesting, though, that his racism that had actual real-world harmful effects—that he kept black and Hispanic people out of his buildings, refusing to rent apartments to them—didn’t get this response. He settled the suit, and he was reported to have said really vile things at that time, too. It was only when it became kind of personal that it made a ton of news. That’s troubling, and another example of both media shittiness and how our cultural values tend to excuse racism in the context of business more than in personal life, which is the opposite of what it should be.

346 A Mom Anon  Apr 30, 2014 3:51:23am

Ahh I see Erick Erickson is still keeping the ICK in both Erick and Erickson.

And he’s raising a daughter. Splendid.

347 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Apr 30, 2014 3:54:29am

re: #345 Fairly Sure Sure I’m Obdicut

Exactly. If you want to be a racist in private and on your own time, that’s your own choice. But when it becomes a matter of denying people their basic rights, namely the right to equal access, then it is a matter to become indignant about.

But in this case, it was just bad publicity for a business that tries to promote an image of equality and fair play.

348 Bulworth  Apr 30, 2014 4:12:38am

So CBS This Morning showed a teaser about some **new** BENGHAZI!! email thing “smoking gun” blah blah blah.

Make it stop.

349 Justanotherhuman  Apr 30, 2014 4:22:17am

re: #345 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

It is interesting, though, that his racism that had actual real-world harmful effects—that he kept black and Hispanic people out of his buildings, refusing to rent apartments to them—didn’t get this response. He settled the suit, and he was reported to have said really vile things at that time, too. It was only when it became kind of personal that it made a ton of news. That’s troubling, and another example of both media shittiness and how our cultural values tend to excuse racism in the context of business more than in personal life, which is the opposite of what it should be.

Exactly so. My late son was not a racist, but at the same time railed against the drug dealers who openly dealt in the parking lot outside his apt, sometimes using the worst epithets (along w/the gun toters who were out there shooting often enough). His sponsor in AA was a Black man who came to the hospital w/his wife, a lovely, caring couple who thought highly of him. His boss was a Black man, although he struggled to work with his health problems. One woman told me, Everyone loved D——-. People were people to him, and money meant little (most of the time to his detriment, he wasted a lot of it). He literally would give people the shirt off his back if they needed it. I noticed a small button on his refrigerator that said, “Stop racism”. I’m going over there tomorrow with others to finish emptying his apt and clean up and will remember to get that and put it on my own fridge.

350 Timothy Watson  Apr 30, 2014 4:23:41am

re: #348 Bulworth

So CBS This Morning showed a teaser about some **new** BENGHAZI!! email thing “smoking gun” blah blah blah.

Make it stop.

So, Lara Logan is no longer suspended?

351 Bulworth  Apr 30, 2014 4:25:51am

re: #350 Timothy Watson

I don’t know…the “story” was about an email supposedly showing how the administration was trying to “shape the story”. IMPEACH!!!

352 Timothy Watson  Apr 30, 2014 4:28:17am

re: #351 Bulworth

I don’t know…the “story” was about an email supposedly showing how the administration was trying to “shape the story”. IMPEACH!!!

PR people doing PR work, obviously a high crime and/or misdemeanor.

/

353 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Apr 30, 2014 4:32:52am

re: #348 Bulworth

So CBS This Morning showed a teaser about some **new** BENGHAZI!! piece of information, which, when taken out of context, puts the adminitration in a bad light.

SQUIRREL!!

354 Backwoods_Sleuth  Apr 30, 2014 5:09:12am

I-10 in Pensacola this morning.

355 Justanotherhuman  Apr 30, 2014 5:09:58am

Good work, Obama administration.

BNP Paribas Facing $2 Billion in Fines Over Sanctions Violations
Internal Probe Found Bank Breached U.S. Sanctions Against Iran

online.wsj.com

“In recent years, U.S. authorities have aggressively pursued and fined European financial institutions active in countries subject to U.S. sanctions. BNP, currently in negotiations with U.S. authorities, is getting closer to becoming the 10th financial institution to settle such allegations.

“Investigators have in the past been reluctant to criminally charge a financial institution because of concerns it could have a destabilizing impact on depositor and investor confidence. On Wednesday, the market reaction was relatively muted, however, suggesting the fallout could be less severe. BNP shares were down 3.5% while its credit default swaps, which measure the perceived risk of the bank defaulting on its debt, barely moved.” More

356 Justanotherhuman  Apr 30, 2014 5:13:41am

Does this mean I’ll get less spam than I do now on gmail? : )

Google stops scanning student Gmail accounts for advertising purposes after scrutiny during recent court case - @WSJdigits
read more on blogs.wsj.com

Oh wait, that students. Well, I’m a student of life, and the spam filter over at gmail leaves a lot to be desired.

357 Timothy Watson  Apr 30, 2014 5:19:17am

“‘Huh?!’ Jon Stewart Baffled By Sarah Palin’s Waterboarding Remarks (VIDEO)”
talkingpointsmemo.com

The second video is more important, the clips show just how reactionary the GOP has become.

358 Justanotherhuman  Apr 30, 2014 5:24:49am

This is absolutely tragic.

9,000 child soldiers fighting in South Sudan war, UN says

news.yahoo.com

Juba (AFP) - Over 9,000 children have been recruited as soldiers in South Sudan’s brutal four-month long civil war by both government and rebel forces, the UN’s human rights chief said Wednesday.

“More than 9,000 children have been recruited into armed forces by both sides… Children have also been killed during indiscriminate attacks on civilians by both sides,” UN High Commissioner for Human Rights Navi Pillay told reporters.”

Refugee camp in Bentiu, Sudan:

l2.yimg.com

359 BongCrodny  Apr 30, 2014 5:26:33am

re: #348 Bulworth

So CBS This Morning showed a teaser about some **new** BENGHAZI!! email thing “smoking gun” blah blah blah.

Make it stop.

So very, very important there’s not a word to be found about it anywhere on the main page of cbsnews.com.

360 Justanotherhuman  Apr 30, 2014 5:27:38am

re: #357 Timothy Watson

“‘Huh?!’ Jon Stewart Baffled By Sarah Palin’s Waterboarding Remarks (VIDEO)”
talkingpointsmemo.com

The second video is more important, the clips show just how reactionary the GOP has become.

That’s what I’ve always called them—reactionaries.

My g-grandson is watching “The Justice League”. The name “Jon (John?) Stewart keeps coming up, as in, “John Stewart is your friend.” : )

361 Pie-onist Overlord  Apr 30, 2014 5:33:45am

The same people who cheered last night’s horror show in Oklahoma, are outraged by this:

362 Pie-onist Overlord  Apr 30, 2014 5:37:56am

Wingnut Word Du Jour is BENGHAZI!!!!!!!

363 Dr Lizardo  Apr 30, 2014 5:58:17am

re: #361 Pie-onist Overlord

The same people who cheered last night’s horror show in Oklahoma, are outraged by this:

[Embedded content]

Yeah. Hypocrisy of the worst kind.

You know, when someone’s been kicked out of al-Qaeda because they’re f***ing nuts, that’s a big red flag. It’s like Boko Haram of Nigeria, who were denounced by that country’s Muslim spiritual leader as “…insane” and “…an embarrassment to Islam.”

364 GunstarGreen  Apr 30, 2014 5:59:56am

You know, it’s really, really hard to avoid Godwinning when the topic at hand is the fact that the state was pumping untested chemical mixtures into a human being just to see what would happen.

365 Feline Fearless Leader  Apr 30, 2014 6:02:09am

re: #242 Backwoods_Sleuth

5.24 inches of rain in 45 minutes reported in Pensacola.
YIKES!

Florida Man is evolving gills.

366 Pie-onist Overlord  Apr 30, 2014 6:02:18am
367 darthstar  Apr 30, 2014 6:02:33am

Mornin’ everyone…sorry to bear sad news.

368 Dr Lizardo  Apr 30, 2014 6:04:01am

re: #367 darthstar

Mornin’ everyone…sorry to bear sad news.

[Embedded content]

That is indeed sad to hear. He was a good actor, and I enjoyed his work.

RIP.

369 Feline Fearless Leader  Apr 30, 2014 6:06:06am

re: #246 Targetpractice

And I imagine that, when capital punishment ends in this nation, it will not be unanimous and it will be the tune of a lot of grumbling that it’s “better” to simply execute them than have them live “the good life” behind bars for the rest of their days.

Odd how a lot of these pundits and politicians rumble about the “good life” of being in prison or bound in slavery. Maybe they should try it for an extended period of time themselves - preferably in some way that they get a feeling that there will be no reprieve from it either.

370 lawhawk  Apr 30, 2014 6:13:25am

Greets and saluts from the soon to be soggy NYC metro area (we’re under flood watches and warnings through Thursday night). We’re supposed to get perhaps 3-4 inches of rain, which is nothing like what Florida has been getting hammered with - 20 inches around Pensacola. It’s nuts, and there’s reports of lives lost and plenty of damage, not counting the ongoing tornado threat. A radar shot earlier seemed to indicate possible tornadoes offshore, but that’s a threat that will persist through the day.

Hey, let’s be careful out there. (sounding like the Sarge on Hill Street Blues).

Meanwhile, the news outlets are still ignoring the #BokoHaram kidnapping of hundreds of Nigerian schoolgirls. NBC News is leading with the storms, but prominently posts about the MH370 reports that an Aussie company may have found some interesting data pointing to the plane being located thousands of miles away from the current search site - and the authorities dismissing the data.

CNN is no better. It leads with the botched execution, but no sign of the kidnapping story, which if it had been pretty much anywhere other than Africa would have been a leading story.

Fox News has a story about the kidnappings, below the fold, but it’s there.

For more in-depth reporting you’ve got to go to BBC or other overseas outlets. It’s really sad that the media isn’t giving this wider coverage, especially considering that Nigeria is Africa’s most populous country (more than twice the population of the second most populous country, Ethiopia).

In other news, Bob Hoskins passed away. RIP.

371 Pie-onist Overlord  Apr 30, 2014 6:16:18am
372 lawhawk  Apr 30, 2014 6:19:20am

Benghazi!! Or something. Right wingers think that they’ve found the smoking gun signifying something, except that it isn’t.

373 lawhawk  Apr 30, 2014 6:20:12am

re: #371 Pie-onist Overlord

But for typing out a lede to that tweet, you had me by .2 of a second. Damn you! :)

374 Backwoods_Sleuth  Apr 30, 2014 6:26:22am
375 darthstar  Apr 30, 2014 6:28:44am

Florida appears to be getting washed out to sea.

376 Backwoods_Sleuth  Apr 30, 2014 6:31:49am
377 Pie-onist Overlord  Apr 30, 2014 6:33:53am

HURR HURR TEH POORS IS SO STUPID. WE HATES THEM PRECIOUSSS!!! TEH POORS SHOULD ALL STARVE & DIE BECAUSE THEY IS SO STUPID & WE TEH CONSERVATIVES IS SO MUCH MOAR SMARTER THEN THEY IS & WE HAZ ALL TEH JRRBS!!!!!!

378 Jayleia  Apr 30, 2014 6:36:31am

re: #375 darthstar

If that happens, I may have to rethink my atheism.

///infinitely

Seriously, that is horrible

379 Eventual Carrion  Apr 30, 2014 6:37:02am

re: #377 Pie-onist Overlord

HURR HURR TEH POORS IS SO STUPID. WE HATES THEM PRECIOUSSS!!! TEH POORS SHOULD ALL STARVE & DIE BECAUSE THEY IS SO STUPID & WE TEH CONSERVATIVES IS SO MUCH MOAR SMARTER THEN THEY IS & WE HAZ ALL TEH JRRBS!!!!!!

[Embedded content]

What skill? Giving people unsolicited, idiotic advise?

380 NJDhockeyfan  Apr 30, 2014 6:38:34am
381 The War TARDIS  Apr 30, 2014 6:39:47am

Hey didn’t Russia, Ukraine, the UK, and US sign some sort of deal in the 90s involving Nukes and Crimea?

382 darthstar  Apr 30, 2014 6:40:21am

re: #378 Jayleia

If that happens, I may have to rethink my atheism.

///infinitely

Seriously, that is horrible

Sinkholes, washouts, porous limestone that allows saltwater to bubble up far inland during high tides. One of these days, they’ll have to change their slogan to “Florida, the landfill state.”

383 Backwoods_Sleuth  Apr 30, 2014 6:40:39am
384 GunstarGreen  Apr 30, 2014 6:44:00am

re: #379 Eventual Carrion

What skill? Giving people unsolicited, idiotic advise?

To the sociopaths that make up the right-wing base, it’s perfectly fine that a person can bust their ass working retail and get sub-living wages, while a pundit can spend 3 hours a day running their mouth and get paid multiple times the national average.

385 Backwoods_Sleuth  Apr 30, 2014 6:44:54am

We got about 2.25 inches of rain here in the backwoods Monday through Tuesday morning.
My rain gauge is reading an additional 1.17 during the past 12 hours and rain is still falling.
Fun times…

386 RealityBasedSteve  Apr 30, 2014 6:46:35am

re: #308 Gus

I can now buy marijuana at will in Colorado. Still haven’t done so. That’s still kind of a hoot though.

You mean that you didn’t become hopelessly addicted to weed the moment it became legalized? You’ve not sold all your belongs, are living in an alley, and selling plasma 3 times a week for money to get weed to inject into your collapsed veins? You mean the darkest fears of RWNJs were incorrect?

RBS

387 Feline Fearless Leader  Apr 30, 2014 6:48:53am

re: #375 darthstar

Florida appears to be getting washed out to sea.

I blame Bugs Bunny.

388 NJDhockeyfan  Apr 30, 2014 6:49:01am
389 RealityBasedSteve  Apr 30, 2014 6:51:17am

re: #388 NJDhockeyfan

[Embedded content]

Back off a bit Bubba, then really floor it…. you can clear that, no problem!

RBS

390 Backwoods_Sleuth  Apr 30, 2014 6:51:56am

re: #389 RealityBasedSteve

Back off a bit Bubba, then really floor it…. you can clear that, no problem!

RBS

“Hold my beer..”

391 Backwoods_Sleuth  Apr 30, 2014 6:53:22am
392 b.d.  Apr 30, 2014 6:54:00am
‘He Is Priceless’: Here’s Why Edward Snowden Is Screwed

“To a foreign intelligence service, Snowden is priceless,” Robert Caruso, a former assistant command security manager in the Navy and a consultant, told BI. “He can be be exploited again and again.”

Caruso explained that while U.S. agencies can “change names of facilities, physically relocate the more sensitive activities, [reassign] personnel he endangered, [etc.]” to mitigate damage from leaked documents, Snowden cannot alter or unlearn the granular level of detail with which he knows NSA systems.

Read more: businessinsider.com

393 Killgore Trout  Apr 30, 2014 6:56:31am

re: #380 NJDhockeyfan

[Embedded content]

Who says Russians are humorless?

394 Eventual Carrion  Apr 30, 2014 6:57:40am

re: #393 Killgore Trout

Who says Russians are humorless?

Yeah, in an asshole-ish sort of way.

395 RealityBasedSteve  Apr 30, 2014 6:58:33am

re: #390 Backwoods_Sleuth

“Hold my beer..”

I spent 6 years as the Operations NCO for a Medevac unit. I can’t tell you the number of calls where I’m sure that “Hold my beer…” was the line that immediately preceded “Oh God! Someone call 911”.

RBS

396 Feline Fearless Leader  Apr 30, 2014 7:00:26am

re: #395 RealityBasedSteve

I spent 6 years as the Operations NCO for a Medevac unit. I can’t tell you the number of calls where I’m sure that “Hold my beer…” was the line that immediately preceded “Oh God! Someone call 911”.

RBS

Alcohol as God’s way to help filter the gene pool?

397 The War TARDIS  Apr 30, 2014 7:04:17am

re: #394 Eventual Carrion

I will refrain from saying anything, as Russia’s actions have me whipped up into a religious - nationalist lather.

398 Justanotherhuman  Apr 30, 2014 7:05:15am

re: #377 Pie-onist Overlord

HURR HURR TEH POORS IS SO STUPID. WE HATES THEM PRECIOUSSS!!! TEH POORS SHOULD ALL STARVE & DIE BECAUSE THEY IS SO STUPID & WE TEH CONSERVATIVES IS SO MUCH MOAR SMARTER THEN THEY IS & WE HAZ ALL TEH JRRBS!!!!!!

[Embedded content]

Ever thought most people aren’t privileged white persons like yourself, Ms. Mek?

399 Backwoods_Sleuth  Apr 30, 2014 7:05:51am

re: #395 RealityBasedSteve

I spent 6 years as the Operations NCO for a Medevac unit. I can’t tell you the number of calls where I’m sure that “Hold my beer…” was the line that immediately preceded “Oh God! Someone call 911”.

RBS

I was a firefighter/EMT and can’t tell you how many accident scenes were littered with beer cans.

400 Backwoods_Sleuth  Apr 30, 2014 7:06:17am

re: #396 Feline Fearless Leader

Alcohol as God’s way to help filter the gene pool?

Sadly, the drunks are the ones most likely to survive.

401 lawhawk  Apr 30, 2014 7:15:48am

The NRA has taken over the fortune cookie business, where instead of adding “in bed” to everything, the NRA fortune cookies say… “with a gun”. /Jon Stewart

402 darthstar  Apr 30, 2014 7:18:22am

re: #391 Backwoods_Sleuth

Didn’t I say to hold my beer? Now look what you done made me do.

403 Dr. Matt  Apr 30, 2014 7:18:54am

Glenn Beck: Hillary will have lesbian sex on White House desk to support gay marriage

The teahadists seriously have some of the most perverted minds in America.

404 NJDhockeyfan  Apr 30, 2014 7:20:36am

re: #393 Killgore Trout

Who says Russians are humorless?

Putin is going on his ‘Invasion Comedy Tour’ next month.

405 Dr Lizardo  Apr 30, 2014 7:21:42am

re: #403 Dr. Matt

Glenn Beck: Hillary will have lesbian sex on White House desk to support gay marriage

The teahadists seriously have some of the most perverted minds in America.

If the Teahadis aren’t the biggest consumer of online pr0n, I don’t know who is. They’re obsessed with sex.

406 darthstar  Apr 30, 2014 7:24:33am
407 Mattand  Apr 30, 2014 7:25:29am

re: #376 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

If you want an idea of what the country would look like if the current Republicans run the table like they did last decade, look no further than Scalia.

Typical Tea Bagger: facts be damned, this is how I think the country should work. He was so apoplectic that the evil EPA was making Jesus cry, he committed an error a first year law student probably would have caught.

There is no frigging daylight between him and the idiot wearing a tricorne hat on the corer and screaming about socialism. Scalia has a better paying job and a fancier costume.

408 NJDhockeyfan  Apr 30, 2014 7:28:55am
410 Killgore Trout  Apr 30, 2014 7:30:46am
Congratulatory messages quickly appeared beneath the original tweet announcing the executions in Raqqa and displaying the crucifixion. Another jihadist Twitter account, fluent in both English and Internet-speak, responded to the photo with gloating congratulations and a quip about the image of the murdered man, “lol become new false jesus.” Egged on, the original poster replied “the spy next to him started urinating as soon as we tied him up, about 10 minutes after he was killed.”
411 Bulworth  Apr 30, 2014 7:35:05am

“I’m telling you, Hillary Clinton will be having sex with a woman on the White House desk if it becomes popular,” Beck said. “She’ll be like, look, the arc of history wasn’t ready for a president to be a lesbian and have sex on the desk.”

This is some very deep, serious analysis by one of America’s most trusted and rational observers. ///

413 kirkspencer  Apr 30, 2014 7:37:23am

re: #407 Mattand

If you want an idea of what the country would look like if the current Republicans run the table like they did last decade, look no further than Scalia.

Typical Tea Bagger: facts be damned, this is how I think the country should work. He was so apoplectic that the evil EPA was making Jesus cry, he committed an error a first year law student probably would have caught.

There is no frigging daylight between him and the idiot wearing a tricorne hat on the corer and screaming about socialism. Scalia has a better paying job and a fancier costume.

I’m an odd duck in that even though I’m not in the law profession I like to read legal decisions. That’s context for the following:

For some years now I’ve found Scalia’s written opinions odd. As in not the representation of a brilliant legal mind. As in poor reflections of what he was writing as little as a decade ago. Though this mistake is the most blatant, it’s far from the first time he’s mis-remembered (or misinterpreted) something. More and more frequently he’s introduced opinion as precedent or fact. His opinions - dissent, concurrence, and even decisions - have had nonsequitors and irrelevant points within them.

In addition to this he’s been more, well, abrasively confrontational (for justices) - while particularly to the women and other liberals, he’s turned his tongue on all his peers at one time or another recently.

I honestly wonder if Scalia is suffering from one of the mental problems of the aged (he’s 78). If so, I suspect it’ll be well after the damage is done that we’ll know.

414 Backwoods_Sleuth  Apr 30, 2014 7:38:14am
415 Varek Raith  Apr 30, 2014 7:38:54am

re: #414 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

Good gravy.
2 feet of rain in 24 hours?

416 Backwoods_Sleuth  Apr 30, 2014 7:39:23am

re: #415 Varek Raith

Good gravy.
2 feet of rain in 24 hours?

Incomprehensible. Really.

417 Varek Raith  Apr 30, 2014 7:41:08am

re: #416 Backwoods_Sleuth

Incomprehensible. Really.

wmo.asu.edu
Wow…

418 Backwoods_Sleuth  Apr 30, 2014 7:41:38am
419 Bulworth  Apr 30, 2014 7:43:14am

#NationalHonestyDay - if U Don’t Like The
#MinimumWage, Ever Thought About Acquiring A Skill Worth More Than Minimum Wage?! #teaparty #tcot — Amy Bossy Mek (
@AmyMek

Americans For Koch’s Prosperity is up early this morning, I see.

420 Gus  Apr 30, 2014 7:43:28am

Bob Hoskins - Personal life

Personal life

Hoskins’ father was a communist and brought up Hoskins as an atheist.[11] In 1967, aged 25, Hoskins spent a short period of time volunteering in kibbutz Zikim in Israel.[12][13] In an interview, when asked what he owed his parents, he said, “Confidence. My mum used to say to me, ‘If somebody doesn’t like you, fuck ‘em, they’ve got bad taste.’”[14] When asked which living person he most despised, Hoskins named Tony Blair and claimed that “he’s done even more damage than Thatcher”.[14] He made light of his similarities with film actor Danny DeVito, who he joked would play him in a film about his life.[14] Hoskins announced his retirement from acting on 8 August 2012, due to his ongoing battle with Parkinson’s disease. Hoskins is the father of Alex Hoskins (1968) and Sarah Hoskins (1972) from his first wife Jane Livesey and father of Rosa Hoskins (1983) and Jack Hoskins (1986) with his second wife Linda Banwell. [15]
Death

Hoskins died on 29 April 2014, in the hospital, at the age of 71. On 30 April 2014, Hoskins’s agent, Clair Dobbs, announced that he had died of pneumonia. He had also been suffering from Parkinson’s disease since 2011.[

421 lawhawk  Apr 30, 2014 7:43:52am

re: #413 kirkspencer

It’s an observation that should get more scrutiny by those covering the court and its decisions as they’re being handed down.

The gaffe in the EPA decision yesterday is something that he or his clerks should have caught. He penned that earlier decision, and he essentially reversed the facts, holding, and ruling from what they actually were. It also suggests that he was starting from a position of opposing the outcome, and then tried to stitch the earlier cases into the fact pattern, getting everything gummed up in the process.

The oral arguments yesterday also pointed out the bubble that the Court lives in - that there are people who might actually have more than one cell phone. Many people I know (who happen to be lawyers) have more than one phone - one for business and one for personal use. Some of that is driven by privacy concerns, some by tax considerations, and some by the need to keep work and private live separate as much as practical.

That Scalia and Roberts both thought that this was somehow odd or unusual is troubling, but in Scalia’s case, it’s another sign that he might want to follow Stevens into retirement, though I assume Scalia wouldn’t consider it as long as a Democrat is in the White House.

422 Gus  Apr 30, 2014 7:44:21am

Wonder if they’re celebrating over at Free Republic. Because, yes, they’re that morbidly creepy.

423 Bulworth  Apr 30, 2014 7:45:07am

R.I.P. Bob Hoskins.

424 Feline Fearless Leader  Apr 30, 2014 7:46:57am

re: #421 lawhawk

I thought that was weird since I have two smart phones. One is company issued for work use. The other is my personal one - which essentially is my home phone as well since I do not have a land line activated for my apartment.

425 Varek Raith  Apr 30, 2014 7:48:04am

Here in the DC area, my backyard looks like a pond.
Sigh.

426 Decatur Deb  Apr 30, 2014 7:50:18am

re: #415 Varek Raith

Good gravy.
2 feet of rain in 24 hours?

That’s me waving in the upper part of the satellite shot. Wearing pajamas and a hat.

427 Gus  Apr 30, 2014 7:51:30am

re: #425 Varek Raith

Here in the DC area, my backyard looks like a pond.
Sigh.

Tree pollen wash away?

428 Bulworth  Apr 30, 2014 7:51:52am

#NationalHonestyDay - if U Don’t Like The #MinimumWage, Ever Thought About Acquiring A Skill Worth More Than Minimum Wage?! #teaparty #tcot — Amy Bossy Mek (@AmyMek

Some of us who favor raising the minimum wage do in fact make more than the minimum wage. I realize this is a hard concept to grasp for some people.

429 Varek Raith  Apr 30, 2014 7:52:02am

re: #427 Gus

Tree pollen wash away?

Indeed.
Feel great today.

430 Justanotherhuman  Apr 30, 2014 7:52:11am

re: #413 kirkspencer

I’m an odd duck in that even though I’m not in the law profession I like to read legal decisions. That’s context for the following:

For some years now I’ve found Scalia’s written opinions odd. As in not the representation of a brilliant legal mind. As in poor reflections of what he was writing as little as a decade ago. Though this mistake is the most blatant, it’s far from the first time he’s mis-remembered (or misinterpreted) something. More and more frequently he’s introduced opinion as precedent or fact. His opinions - dissent, concurrence, and even decisions - have had nonsequitors and irrelevant points within them.

In addition to this he’s been more, well, abrasively confrontational (for justices) - while particularly to the women and other liberals, he’s turned his tongue on all his peers at one time or another recently.

I honestly wonder if Scalia is suffering from one of the mental problems of the aged (he’s 78). If so, I suspect it’ll be well after the damage is done that we’ll know.

Here’s an excellent piece by Jonathan Turley about the very question of physical and mental incompetence.

Through Addictions to Dementia: Supreme Court Justices Have Refused to Step Down — The Need for Reforming the Supreme Court

jonathanturley.org

431 Backwoods_Sleuth  Apr 30, 2014 7:52:48am

re: #425 Varek Raith

Here in the DC area, my backyard looks like a pond.
Sigh.

Mine, too. We’re up to 1.3 inches of rain since last night and 4.33 inches since this all started. The creeks are just about to overflow their banks.
I called in my latest rain report to the NWS office in Wilmington about 30 minutes ago and they issued a flood advisory for my county a few minutes later.
Rain has picked up again, so it’s not over yet.

432 Decatur Deb  Apr 30, 2014 7:54:02am

Weather radio alarm again. Another storm cell near Ft. Rucker. No flying today, guys.

433 Gus  Apr 30, 2014 7:54:10am

re: #429 Varek Raith

Indeed.
Feel great today.

Thought that might be the case.

434 Pie-onist Overlord  Apr 30, 2014 7:54:19am

re: #428 Bulworth

#NationalHonestyDay - if U Don’t Like The #MinimumWage, Ever Thought About Acquiring A Skill Worth More Than Minimum Wage?! #teaparty #tcot — Amy Bossy Mek (@AmyMek

Some of us who favor raising the minimum wage do in fact make more than the minimum wage. I realize this is a hard concept to grasp for some people.

People who earn minimum wage do in fact perform work. Tedious, back-breaking, exhausting physical labor. They are far from “worthless” as the wingnuts would have you believe.

435 Feline Fearless Leader  Apr 30, 2014 7:55:44am

re: #427 Gus

Tree pollen wash away?

That’s the plus regarding my allergies. Downside is that the moisture makes the mold spore counts go up and I’m allergic to those as well.

Not as bad as it is for younger cat. His asthma is flaring and he is having a couple of hack attacks per day. Using an inhaler with him currently and the vet and I are discussing adding another inhaled steroid that he would get twice per day rather than just something when an attack occurs.

436 EmmaAnne  Apr 30, 2014 7:56:00am

re: #413 kirkspencer

I’m an odd duck in that even though I’m not in the law profession I like to read legal decisions. That’s context for the following:

For some years now I’ve found Scalia’s written opinions odd. As in not the representation of a brilliant legal mind. As in poor reflections of what he was writing as little as a decade ago. Though this mistake is the most blatant, it’s far from the first time he’s mis-remembered (or misinterpreted) something. More and more frequently he’s introduced opinion as precedent or fact. His opinions - dissent, concurrence, and even decisions - have had nonsequitors and irrelevant points within them.

In addition to this he’s been more, well, abrasively confrontational (for justices) - while particularly to the women and other liberals, he’s turned his tongue on all his peers at one time or another recently.

I honestly wonder if Scalia is suffering from one of the mental problems of the aged (he’s 78). If so, I suspect it’ll be well after the damage is done that we’ll know.

In support of your theory - the justices have clerks to double check all of their case cites. The fact that he is (presumably) refusing to listen to his clerks argues … a problem.

437 Political Atheist  Apr 30, 2014 7:57:23am

re: #432 Decatur Deb

re: #431 Backwoods_Sleuth

re: #425 Varek Raith

Stay safe you guys.

438 Gus  Apr 30, 2014 7:57:35am

re: #435 Feline Fearless Leader

That’s the plus regarding my allergies. Downside is that the moisture makes the mold spore counts go up and I’m allergic to those as well.

Not as bad as it is for younger cat. His asthma is flaring and he is having a couple of hack attacks per day. Using an inhaler with him currently and the vet and I are discussing adding another inhaled steroid that he would get twice per day rather than just something when an attack occurs.

Yep, it’s a cycle. Tree pollen gone. Relief. Then come the mold spores.

439 Backwoods_Sleuth  Apr 30, 2014 7:57:58am
440 RealityBasedSteve  Apr 30, 2014 7:58:09am

re: #415 Varek Raith

Good gravy.
2 feet of rain in 24 hours?

I can’t even begin to imagine it…

RBS

441 Gus  Apr 30, 2014 7:58:36am

When I lived in South Jersey I ended up having the worst cast of hay fever. It was horrible at times.

442 Feline Fearless Leader  Apr 30, 2014 7:58:38am

re: #436 EmmaAnne

In support of your theory - the justices have clerks to double check all of their case cites. The fact that he is (presumably) refusing to listen to his clerks argues … a problem.

Sounds like the “brain eater” has gotten him.

(Used in some circles as the description for when an author ceases to develop new ideas and writes long boring doorstop novels due to an inability to edit his works or heed an external editor.)

443 Bulworth  Apr 30, 2014 7:58:41am

Varek Raith posted:

Here in the DC area, my backyard looks like a pond.
Sigh.

Yeah, I thought I had my wet weather shoes on today, but I took a spill outside my office. Banged up my knees some, but I appear to be in one piece.

Note to self: Fell walking over one of those metal grate things, not on the regular sidewalk.

444 Gus  Apr 30, 2014 8:00:12am

Achoo!

445 Feline Fearless Leader  Apr 30, 2014 8:01:04am

re: #443 Bulworth

Varek Raith posted:

Yeah, I thought I had my wet weather shoes on today, but I took a spill outside my office. Banged up my knees some, but I appear to be in one piece.

Note to self: Fell walking over one of those metal grate things, not on the regular sidewalk.

Lots of those around here. I am very careful about them and manhole covers during wet or cold weather since they get very slippery in those conditions.

446 RealityBasedSteve  Apr 30, 2014 8:01:40am

re: #443 Bulworth

Varek Raith posted:

Yeah, I thought I had my wet weather shoes on today, but I took a spill outside my office. Banged up my knees some, but I appear to be in one piece.

Note to self: Fell walking over one of those metal grate things, not on the regular sidewalk.

I took a spill on one of those last year in the rain. Walking down the sidewalk at a brisk pace, new shoes with leather soles, drinking my latte. All of a sudden I’m doing a Rockette grade HIgh Kick, and landing flat on my ass. I was ok, and didn’t spill the coffee, but could have been bad.

RBS

447 Bulworth  Apr 30, 2014 8:03:49am

Gus posted:

When I lived in South Jersey I ended up having the worst cast of hay fever. It was horrible at times.

You’re telling me. Had some of my worst allergies in NJ.

448 Skip Intro  Apr 30, 2014 8:03:55am

re: #376 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

Guess which other justice made the exact same mistake in their opinion. Go ahead, I know it’s a tough one, but give it a shot.

Give up? Clarence Thomas, that’s who. It’s almost as though Thomas just rubber stamps everything Scalia writes.

449 kirkspencer  Apr 30, 2014 8:04:39am

re: #446 RealityBasedSteve

I took a spill on one of those last year in the rain. Walking down the sidewalk at a brisk pace, new shoes with leather soles, drinking my latte. All of a sudden I’m doing a Rockette grade HIgh Kick, and landing flat on my ass. I was ok, and didn’t spill the coffee, but could have been bad.

RBS

yeah, the only thing worse than spilling coffee is spilling alcohol.

Oh, wait, you were talking about injury bad. ///

450 lawhawk  Apr 30, 2014 8:05:16am

So, with the racist Bundy fading into the shadows of the even richer racist Sterling, the folks at Big Government have decided to try and find the next Bundy who’s fighting the BLM over grazing rights.

If at first you can’t succeed, try and try again.

Bundy wasn’t just a racist, but a thief and criminal who refused to pay for grazing fees and let his herd trespass on federal land. The BLM policy in place for those kinds of acts? If fees can’t be collect by other means (liens, payment, etc.), they go and round up the trespassing herd.

None of this is surprising, but Big Government wants you to think that these people are somehow heroic for fighting the BLM and imposing below market grazing fees on ranchers who use federal lands.

451 Feline Fearless Leader  Apr 30, 2014 8:05:22am

re: #449 kirkspencer

yeah, the only thing worse than spilling coffee is spilling alcohol.

Oh, wait, you were talking about injury bad. ///

Is spilling Irish Coffee a capital offense then?
O_O

452 Gus  Apr 30, 2014 8:06:14am
453 Feline Fearless Leader  Apr 30, 2014 8:07:25am

re: #448 Skip Intro

Guess which other justice made the exact same mistake in their opinion. Go ahead, I know it’s a tough one, but give it a shot.

Give up? Clarence Thomas, that’s who. It’s almost as though Thomas just rubber stamps everything Scalia writes.

It’s almost like ALEC is writing court opinions now and sending them out.
///

454 lawhawk  Apr 30, 2014 8:08:20am

re: #447 Bulworth

Interesting.

My allergies will go into overdrive depending on the town. My allergies are pretty good where I currently live, but if we’re going through Waldwick, Wyckoff and Allendale, I’m hit with a wave of scratchy and watery eyes, runny nose, etc. Leave those towns, and I get better within a short time. I think it may have to do with what trees are prevalent there.

For the Mrs., whenever we go away and head somewhere that has a lot of certain kinds of juniper or pine, her allergies go nuts (which hurts particularly since those trees are prevalent at many of the national parks out West).

455 kirkspencer  Apr 30, 2014 8:08:58am

re: #448 Skip Intro

Guess which other justice made the exact same mistake in their opinion. Go ahead, I know it’s a tough one, but give it a shot.

Give up? Clarence Thomas, that’s who. It’s almost as though Thomas just rubber stamps everything Scalia writes.

Actually I’m going to make a minor defense of Thomas here. (I hate my personal ethics sometimes.)

I am willing to wager that most concurring justices assume the facts declaimed by the authoring justice are valid, and so concentrate on the assumptions and conclusions. Further, I strongly suspect that none of the justices have their own clerks do homework on the other justices’ works.

Concurrence is “I’ve read this and rather than writing my own that says pretty much the same thing, I just say ‘ditto’.”

I’ll make a guess, though. I’m going to guess that after this most if not all the justices have their clerks double-check at least Scalia’s and possibly everyone’s details. Yay, more work for the peons.

456 Bulworth  Apr 30, 2014 8:09:39am

Lawhawk posted:

“The Long History Of BLM’s Aggressive Cattle Seizures.. - Big Government”

I guess the folks at Big Government aren’t much into the Rule of Law…that only applies to some people.

457 Backwoods_Sleuth  Apr 30, 2014 8:10:25am

Alabama, as well:

458 kirkspencer  Apr 30, 2014 8:11:24am

re: #451 Feline Fearless Leader

Is spilling Irish Coffee a capital offense then?
O_O

Worse, it may damn you to an afterlife with neither coffee nor alcohol.

459 Gus  Apr 30, 2014 8:12:04am
460 Feline Fearless Leader  Apr 30, 2014 8:12:39am

re: #459 Gus

April showers bring May flowers. And an ark.

461 GunstarGreen  Apr 30, 2014 8:12:39am

re: #452 Gus

[Embedded content]

Pretty much.

What’s the difference between Americans livetweeting the horrifically botched killing of a man by pumping him full of untested chemicals, and Syrians livetweeting the horrific killing of a man by crucifixion?

General outrage only happens towards the latter.

462 Skip Intro  Apr 30, 2014 8:12:41am

re: #455 kirkspencer

Actually I’m going to make a minor defense of Thomas here. (I hate my personal ethics sometimes.)

I am willing to wager that most concurring justices assume the facts declaimed by the authoring justice are valid, and so concentrate on the assumptions and conclusions. Further, I strongly suspect that none of the justices have their own clerks do homework on the other justices’ works.

Concurrence is “I’ve read this and rather than writing my own that says pretty much the same thing, I just say ‘ditto’.”

I’ll make a guess, though. I’m going to guess that after this most if not all the justices have their clerks double-check at least Scalia’s and possibly everyone’s details. Yay, more work for the peons.

Well, at the least you’d think Scalia’s clerks would check Scalia’s opinion to see if it contradicts Scalia’s opinion in his 2001 decision.

And I do believe one of the jobs of the court clerks is to check what their boss signs off on, just because of things like this.

463 Bulworth  Apr 30, 2014 8:14:50am

RBS posted:

“All of a sudden I’m doing a Rockette grade HIgh Kick, and landing flat on my ass. I was ok, and didn’t spill the coffee, but could have been bad.”

Yeah I got off pretty easy, could have been much worse.

464 Feline Fearless Leader  Apr 30, 2014 8:15:40am

re: #458 kirkspencer

Worse, it may damn you to an afterlife with neither coffee nor alcohol.

A fate worse than death.

465 Gus  Apr 30, 2014 8:16:27am

Soon it will be summer and people will be heading for “the shore” or “da woods.”

466 Feline Fearless Leader  Apr 30, 2014 8:17:48am

re: #465 Gus

Soon it will be summer and people will be heading for “the shore” or “da woods.”

Looks like in northern Florida ‘da beach’ is coming to them. (Or more accurately, the fishing.)

467 NJDhockeyfan  Apr 30, 2014 8:18:31am
468 Pie-onist Overlord  Apr 30, 2014 8:19:48am

WTF

469 Backwoods_Sleuth  Apr 30, 2014 8:20:19am

heh…along the lines of Scalia’s bad memory:

470 Killgore Trout  Apr 30, 2014 8:22:16am

re: #461 GunstarGreen

Pretty much.

What’s the difference between Americans livetweeting the horrifically botched killing of a man by pumping him full of untested chemicals, and Syrians livetweeting the horrific killing of a man by crucifixion?

General outrage only happens towards the latter.

I’m agnostic about the death penalty but there are a couple of important differences. What happened with the botched execution was an accident and was unintentionally cruel. Also the prisoners crimes were fairly horrific as well. What happened in Syria was purposeful. The executed prisoner’s crime was simply being a different religion or supporting a different political cause. It’s also an indication of what’s what going to happen a lot more if ISIS continues to gain power in the country.

471 Backwoods_Sleuth  Apr 30, 2014 8:22:27am

re: #468 Pie-onist Overlord

WTF

[Embedded content]

She’s reading forwarded emails again…

472 Pie-onist Overlord  Apr 30, 2014 8:24:04am

re: #471 Backwoods_Sleuth

She’s reading forwarded emails again…

473 Justanotherhuman  Apr 30, 2014 8:28:29am

re: #455 kirkspencer

Actually I’m going to make a minor defense of Thomas here. (I hate my personal ethics sometimes.)

I am willing to wager that most concurring justices assume the facts declaimed by the authoring justice are valid, and so concentrate on the assumptions and conclusions. Further, I strongly suspect that none of the justices have their own clerks do homework on the other justices’ works.

Concurrence is “I’ve read this and rather than writing my own that says pretty much the same thing, I just say ‘ditto’.”

I’ll make a guess, though. I’m going to guess that after this most if not all the justices have their clerks double-check at least Scalia’s and possibly everyone’s details. Yay, more work for the peons.

OTOH, Thomas has just about always been a rubber stamp for the most conservative judges on the bench. Has he ever written an opinion on his own? : )

474 kirkspencer  Apr 30, 2014 8:28:29am

re: #462 Skip Intro

Well, at the least you’d think Scalia’s clerks would check Scalia’s opinion to see if it contradicts Scalia’s opinion in his 2001 decision.

And I do believe one of the jobs of the court clerks is to check what their boss signs off on, just because of things like this.

Not quite. They’d check to make certain the citation was valid, but would not normally check to ensure it wasn’t a misrepresentation — especially when it’s a justice citing his own decision.

re Scalia’s clerks checking, yes and no. Yes, they are supposed to proofread and checking that cases say what the justice claims would reasonably be proofreading. However, notice my post at #413. Scalia’s opinions of the last decade or so have been filled with non sequitors and misrepresentations. He’s overriding his clerks - his prerogative, notionally.

This one’s the big one, though. It’s not just a misrepresentation, it’s a flat out error. It means he’s either bullied his clerks into total subservience (yes sir whatever you want sir) OR he’s overriding them regardless of facts on the ground. Either is bad.

At this point Roberts has a short list of remedies. In simple, everybody’s clerks double-check to see if Scalia’s doing it again OR Scalia’s clerks double-report to Roberts as well as Scalia. “Wait and see if it’s a one-off” means the former happens without official sanction. The latter is less work for everyone but a devastating political move. It’s not going to be pleasant, regardless.

475 kirkspencer  Apr 30, 2014 8:31:45am

re: #473 Justanotherhuman

Yes he has.

Please, don’t make me defend Thomas again. He’s bad, but keep the attacks on his flaws. Now I have to go take another shower.

476 Feline Fearless Leader  Apr 30, 2014 8:32:16am

Hmm, how would the SC handle a “loose cannon” whose opinions start becoming more and more unhinged and legally wrong?

477 Justanotherhuman  Apr 30, 2014 8:33:32am

re: #475 kirkspencer

Yes he has.

Please, don’t make me defend Thomas again. He’s bad, but keep the attacks on his flaws. Now I have to go take another shower.

Yeah, I was being facetious, as I am prone to be sometimes. Should have added the sarc tags. : )

478 Backwoods_Sleuth  Apr 30, 2014 8:35:23am

From the pictures coming out of Pensacola this morning, it would appear there aren’t too many roads left.

479 lawhawk  Apr 30, 2014 8:36:44am

re: #473 Justanotherhuman

He’s written quite a few decisions (that page is out of date, so cases beyond say 2002 aren’t included - C.J. Roberts isn’t included either), whether as the majority or the leading dissenter. What separates his tenure on the Court from the other justices has been that he’s only rarely questioned the litigants during the oral arguments. It’s a handful of cases where he’s commented or questioned.

For comparison, Scalia’s opinions are here.

480 Justanotherhuman  Apr 30, 2014 8:37:52am

re: #478 Backwoods_Sleuth

From the pictures coming out of Pensacola this morning, it would appear there aren’t too many roads left.

[Embedded content]

Holy crap.

Update: Storms over the Florida Panhandle last night generated 9,000 lightning strikes in 15 minutes - @weathernetwork
see original on theweathernetwork.com

481 Backwoods_Sleuth  Apr 30, 2014 8:38:08am
482 Timothy Watson  Apr 30, 2014 8:40:51am

re: #473 Justanotherhuman

OTOH, Thomas has just about always been a rubber stamp for the most conservative judges on the bench. Has he ever written an opinion on his own? : )

He once wrote that the President could hold an American citizen for as long as he wanted, without any type of due process.

Say what you will about Scalia, but I agree wholeheartedly with his dissent in that case.

483 Gus  Apr 30, 2014 8:45:15am

Rather funny to see the party of “states rights,” Lee Atwater, Strom Thurmond, Welfare Queens, Jesse Helms and Confederate flags always bringing up the political affiliation of the CSA as if they’re a mirror image of today’s Democrats.

484 Justanotherhuman  Apr 30, 2014 8:45:28am
485 lawhawk  Apr 30, 2014 8:51:50am

Guess we should be lucky there’s only a slight risk of tornadoes today. Yesterday only 9 hit, and 8 of those were in NC, not in AL/GA, where the SPC had initially placed at the highest risk.

486 Skip Intro  Apr 30, 2014 8:52:04am

re: #481 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

Barbarians In Oklahoma

esquire.com

487 Gus  Apr 30, 2014 8:52:05am

The “Southern Strategy.” Those whacky Democrats. Oops, wait.

488 Mattand  Apr 30, 2014 8:53:43am

re: #441 Gus

When I lived in South Jersey I ended up having the worst cast of hay fever. It was horrible at times.

My sister lives essentially on the edge of the Pine Barrens. This time of year, when you walk through her yard, yellow puffs of smoke rise up with every foot fall. It’s brutal.

Her driveway is most likely looking like a yellow river right now, from all of the pollen.

489 Ian G.  Apr 30, 2014 8:58:04am

Good (almost) afternoon, Lizards. I see Jeffrey Goldberg deserves a standing ovation, and I see Erick son of Erick never fails to be as disgusting as humanly possible.

Has anyone asked the Son of Erick that if he’s going to babble about abortion so vehemently, he must be all for use of contraceptives, right?

490 Gus  Apr 30, 2014 8:58:35am

re: #488 Mattand

My sister live essentially on the edge of the Pine Barrens. This time of year, when you walk through her yard, yellow puffs of smoke rise up with every foot fall. It’s brutal.

Her driveway is most likely looking like a yellow river right now, from all of the pollen.

Yep. Pine pollen would almost cover the cars. When it rained you’d end up with pine pollen soup puddles. Achoo, achoo, achoo. Take allergy medicine. Get allergy relief but then feel like shit because of the side effects.

491 Mattand  Apr 30, 2014 9:02:33am

re: #476 Feline Fearless Leader

Hmm, how would the SC handle a “loose cannon” whose opinions start becoming more and more unhinged and legally wrong?

In my fantasy USA that runs on reality, right after the 2nd Amendment is adjusted to reflect the 21st Century, SCOTUS justices get term limits.

One of the greatest flaws of a lifetime political appointment is that there’s no mechanism as to when a judge becomes unfit to serve.

And Roberts sure as hell isn’t going to do anything about Scalia if he starts exhibiting that kind of behavior. I’m sure Roberts doesn’t want anyone doing that to him. Besides, for the most part, Roberts is a Republican first and a justice second. He needs Scalia to keep the GOP majority on the court going.

And, yes, I’m fully aware of what I just said. These jerkoffs are going out of their way to create Rove’s permanent supermajority. Roberts’ ruling on the ACA was a fluke.

492 Mattand  Apr 30, 2014 9:03:27am

re: #490 Gus

Yep. Pine pollen would almost cover the cars. When it rained you’d end up with pine pollen soup puddles. Achoo, achoo, achoo. Take allergy medicine. Get allergy relief but then feel like shit because of the side effects.

I’ve been very lucky in that I don’t have any pollen allergies.

493 wrenchwench  Apr 30, 2014 9:05:45am

re: #492 Mattand

I’ve been very lucky in that I don’t have any pollen allergies.

I had none until I moved here. It took five years, but the Juniper pollen got me. The season runs from January to April.

494 Justanotherhuman  Apr 30, 2014 9:06:02am

re: #479 lawhawk

He’s written quite a few decisions (that page is out of date, so cases beyond say 2002 aren’t included - C.J. Roberts isn’t included either), whether as the majority or the leading dissenter. What separates his tenure on the Court from the other justices has been that he’s only rarely questioned the litigants during the oral arguments. It’s a handful of cases where he’s commented or questioned.

For comparison, Scalia’s opinions are here.

“What separates his tenure on the Court from the other justices has been that he’s only rarely questioned the litigants during the oral arguments. “

While this is true, I don’t think he’s shown much leadership from the bench, either. Jeff Toobin takes him apart here:

newyorker.com

495 Decatur Deb  Apr 30, 2014 9:13:13am

re: #485 lawhawk

Guess we should be lucky there’s only a slight risk of tornadoes today. Yesterday only 9 hit, and 8 of those were in NC, not in AL/GA, where the SPC had initially placed at the highest risk.

Must be fewer gay weddings today.

496 wrenchwench  Apr 30, 2014 9:17:11am

re: #450 lawhawk

There’s a Big Error in that Big Government article. It calls Helen Chenoweth a Nevada Republican Congresswoman. She was a Congresswoman from Idaho, who later moved to Nevada.

I didn’t know she had died, and I wasn’t saddened by the news. In 1994 she said, “It’s the white, Anglo-Saxon male that’s endangered today.”

Fucking white supremacist.

497 Backwoods_Sleuth  Apr 30, 2014 9:23:33am
498 Backwoods_Sleuth  Apr 30, 2014 9:24:31am
499 wrenchwench  Apr 30, 2014 9:25:32am

I may be using the f word a little extra today. I’m experiencing a flare up of Irritable Sibling Syndrome. My evilest sister sent me two emails yesterday (because she can’t fit all her bile into one) that made me so mad it will take me a week to answer her. I try not to respond angrily because I think it pleases her. She can’t stand it when I’m calm, or when I let her stew for a week.

So I’ll be, um, expressive here, and get it out of my system. I will try to aim carefully.

500 wrenchwench  Apr 30, 2014 9:29:21am
501 Feline Fearless Leader  Apr 30, 2014 9:36:28am

re: #499 wrenchwench

I may be using the f word a little extra today. I’m experiencing a flare up of Irritable Sibling Syndrome. My evilest sister sent me two emails yesterday (because she can’t fit all her bile into one) that made me so mad it will take me a week to answer her. I try not to respond angrily because I think it pleases her. She can’t stand it when I’m calm, or when I let her stew for a week.

So I’ll be, um, expressive here, and get it out of my system. I will try to aim carefully.

I see lots of postings and comments here and on FB about people fighting their siblings, parents, etc. about this or that - and count my blessings that I have good and relatively irritation free relations with my immediate family. Downside is that most of them are dead.

502 Gus  Apr 30, 2014 9:36:44am

UKIP surging in the UK. Now this.

503 Gus  Apr 30, 2014 9:39:12am

re: #502 Gus

UKIP surging in the UK. Now this.

[Embedded content]

Front national

Leader Marine Le Pen
Honorary Chairman Jean-Marie Le Pen
Founded 5 October 1972
Headquarters 76 rue des Suisses
Nanterre
Youth wing National Front Youth

504 Gus  Apr 30, 2014 9:41:53am
505 Justanotherhuman  Apr 30, 2014 9:44:12am

1 million thermostats recalled for fire risk

bigstory.ap.org

“The thermostats are made by White-Rodgers, but some have different brand names printed on the front, including ComfortSentry, DICO, Emerson, Frigidaire, Maytag, Nutone, Partners Choice, Rheem, Ruud, Unico, Water Furnace, Westinghouse and Zonefirst.

“There have been seven reports of burn damage to the thermostat, with two involving minor property damage, the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission said. No injuries have been reported.

“The thermostats were sold for between $30 and $70 at hardware stores and heating and air conditioning companies from January 2006 to December 2013. About 740,000 of the thermostats were sold in the U.S. and 403,000 were sold in Canada.” More

506 RealityBasedSteve  Apr 30, 2014 9:44:22am

re: #481 Backwoods_Sleuth
Oklahoma Gov. Fallin to make statement at 2 p.m. ET, following last night’s botched execution - NBC

[Embedded content]

Hopefully she will announce that the state is suspending all pending executions until such a time as a humane and effective method can be found.

RBS

507 Gus  Apr 30, 2014 9:44:44am
508 Justanotherhuman  Apr 30, 2014 9:45:32am

re: #507 Gus

[Embedded content]

Bastards—but what did we expect?

509 jaunte  Apr 30, 2014 9:46:56am
“The end of April has arrived, and with it, the record for the first month in human history with an average carbon dioxide level in Earth’s atmosphere above 400 parts per million has been set.”
climatecentral.org

“The last time there was this much carbon dioxide in the Earth’s atmosphere, modern humans didn’t exist.”
climatecentral.org

510 GunstarGreen  Apr 30, 2014 9:47:16am

re: #508 Justanotherhuman

Bastards—but what did we expect?

Remember back when filibusters actually required some form of commitment and sacrifice to pull off?

Man, those were the days.

511 Pie-onist Overlord  Apr 30, 2014 9:47:36am

ASSHOLE==>

512 blueraven  Apr 30, 2014 9:49:00am

New Fox News host

513 Killgore Trout  Apr 30, 2014 9:51:40am

Saudi Arabia Displays Ballistic Missiles in Likely Signal to Iran

Saudi Arabia on Tuesday for the first time displayed its medium-range ballistic missiles — a move that analysts interpreted as primarily aimed at Iran.
….
“The missile display signals Saudi Arabia’s determination to counter Tehran’s growing strength, as well as its readiness to act independently of the United States,” Henderson said.

Saudi Arabia is worried that ongoing talks between world powers and Iran will fail to produce a deal that permanently ends Tehran’s potential to construct a nuclear weapon. A prominent Saudi prince recently urged other Arab Gulf nations to develop advanced atomic capabilities in order to create a “balance of forces” against Iran.

Pakistani army chief Gen. Raheel Sharif was in attendance at Tuesday’s parade. His presence will likely “reawaken speculation” that the Saudi government could attempt to acquire Pakistani atomic weapons in order to counter Iran, Henderson said.

514 Backwoods_Sleuth  Apr 30, 2014 9:51:43am
515 jaunte  Apr 30, 2014 9:52:18am

re: #511 Pie-onist Overlord

Tangentially related:

516 Justanotherhuman  Apr 30, 2014 9:53:50am

re: #511 Pie-onist Overlord

ASSHOLE==>

[Embedded content]

I didn’t even know what race Lockett was, or his victim. The brutality concerning his “execution” was horrible, no matter who he was.

No wonder the RWNJs are reacting this way. Their thinking is always, always, medieval or worse.

517 Killgore Trout  Apr 30, 2014 9:54:03am

Missiles in the Gulf

Saudi Arabia made headlines recently, after it publicly paraded two DF-3s for the first time. The Kingdom secretly purchased these missiles from China in 1987, but has hitherto opted not to show them off in public. The consensus is that the Kingdom’s public display was intended to signal to Washington its current discomfort with the way the US has handled Syria, the Arab Spring, and the Iranian nuclear issue. In addition, the unveiling of the DF-3 also appears aimed at sending a message to Tehran about Riyadh’s capability to strike targets inside the Islamic Republic.

518 Feline Fearless Leader  Apr 30, 2014 9:54:15am

Feline Overlord related question.

Looking into ways and means of keeping the overlords amused while I am not at home - and see if older cat’s chaos and destructive tendencies can be directed towards other tasks.

Along those lines I’ve been reading a website the vet recommended, and as a result looking into things like feeding mazes or treat dispenser toys. And thus was curious if any of the other lizards are employing such devices, and how effective they are.

Some of the tweaks have been fairly simple. Older cats likes sitting/napping in cardboard boxes, and simply putting one on the couch has proven quite attractive to her. And younger cat seems to enjoy sniffing around the apartment to find where I have been placing treats to be found.

519 Decatur Deb  Apr 30, 2014 9:54:27am

re: #511 Pie-onist Overlord

ASSHOLE==>

[Embedded content]

Fischer needs to ask Christ for an opinion on the death penalty.

520 Backwoods_Sleuth  Apr 30, 2014 9:55:39am
521 Dr. Matt  Apr 30, 2014 9:56:30am

re: #512 blueraven

New Fox News host

Obama won’t fire John Kerry for two reasons. 1. doesn’t need the donors 2. because he’s anti-Semitic
— Katie Pavlich (@KatiePavlich) April 28, 2014

Too soon?

Apartheidghazi…..NEVER FORGET!!?!?!!

522 wrenchwench  Apr 30, 2014 9:57:42am

re: #501 Feline Fearless Leader

I see lots of postings and comments here and on FB about people fighting their siblings, parents, etc. about this or that - and count my blessings that I have good and relatively irritation free relations with my immediate family. Downside is that most of them are dead.

A friend was in here yesterday talking about his father’s funeral and how he and his two brothers dealt with stuff. They worked together! They did what their mother wanted! They honored his father’s wishes! It was nice to hear about a functional family.

523 Gus  Apr 30, 2014 9:58:46am
524 Decatur Deb  Apr 30, 2014 10:00:21am

re: #512 blueraven

New Fox News host

[Embedded content]

Pavlich is anti-semantic.

525 Gus  Apr 30, 2014 10:00:22am

re: #512 blueraven

New Fox News host

[Embedded content]

526 Killgore Trout  Apr 30, 2014 10:02:08am

re: #518 Feline Fearless Leader

Feline Overlord related question.

Looking into ways and means of keeping the overlords amused while I am not at home - and see if older cat’s chaos and destructive tendencies can be directed towards other tasks.

Along those lines I’ve been reading a website the vet recommended, and as a result looking into things like feeding mazes or treat dispenser toys. And thus was curious if any of the other lizards are employing such devices, and how effective they are.

Some of the tweaks have been fairly simple. Older cats likes sitting/napping in cardboard boxes, and simply putting one on the couch has proven quite attractive to her. And younger cat seems to enjoy sniffing around the apartment to find where I have been placing treats to be found.

My older cat has always been lacking in inner peace. Without distractions/entertainment she’s quite destructive. I’ve noticed even running the Roomba in the afternoon gives her something to pay attention to. Cat toys that make noise (crinkly sounds, jingle bells, etc) entertain her even if the other cat plays with them. She also finds cat toys much more interesting if they smell different. rub them on the grass outside, on a bush down the street, take one to work for a day. When the toy returns home it becomes much more interesting because it smells different.

527 Justanotherhuman  Apr 30, 2014 10:03:03am

re: #522 wrenchwench

A friend was in here yesterday talking about his father’s funeral and how he and his two brothers dealt with stuff. They worked together! They did what their mother wanted! They honored his father’s wishes! It was nice to hear about a functional family.

We are also working together to bury my son. If my granddaughter will stop listening to her husband (who is a notorious cheapskate and money-hoarder who will stiff someone in a NY minute), we’ll not have any problems. Even their mother, who is my son’s ex-wife, is contributing and doing a hell of a lot to help.

My granddaughter needs to stop being a doormat, seriously.

528 Gus  Apr 30, 2014 10:03:12am

She’s weird. Kind of like a robot.

529 Feline Fearless Leader  Apr 30, 2014 10:04:23am

re: #526 Killgore Trout

My older cat has always been lacking in inner peace. Without distractions/entertainment she’s quite destructive. I’ve noticed even running the Roomba in the afternoon gives her something to pay attention to. Cat toys that make noise (crinkly sounds, jingle bells, etc) entertain her even if the other cat plays with them. She also finds cat toys much more interesting if they smell different. rub them on the grass outside, on a bush down the street, take one to work for a day. When the toy returns home it becomes much more interesting because it smells different.

Good suggestion. My arrival home is greeted by both cats partially to see what smells I track in. Plus it’s the major reason they like going out and exploring the building hallway - and then camping out and sitting where the ventilation vent is.

530 Decatur Deb  Apr 30, 2014 10:05:03am

re: #518 Feline Fearless Leader

Feline Overlord related question.

Looking into ways and means of keeping the overlords amused while I am not at home - and see if older cat’s chaos and destructive tendencies can be directed towards other tasks.

Along those lines I’ve been reading a website the vet recommended, and as a result looking into things like feeding mazes or treat dispenser toys. And thus was curious if any of the other lizards are employing such devices, and how effective they are.

Some of the tweaks have been fairly simple. Older cats likes sitting/napping in cardboard boxes, and simply putting one on the couch has proven quite attractive to her. And younger cat seems to enjoy sniffing around the apartment to find where I have been placing treats to be found.

1. Hang catnip mouse from ceiling fan, using a long cord that incorporates a strong rubber band.

2. Leave ceiling fan on ‘Low’ for the day.

531 blueraven  Apr 30, 2014 10:06:59am

re: #528 Gus

She’s weird. Kind of like a robot.

Just the newest typical pretty blonde, Stepford fox host.
She will do well there.

532 darthstar  Apr 30, 2014 10:07:14am

re: #415 Varek Raith

Good gravy.
2 feet of rain in 24 hours?

There’s nowhere that amount of water can run off to. (I know, I just ended a sentence with not one, but two prepositions).

533 Decatur Deb  Apr 30, 2014 10:09:35am

re: #532 darthstar

There’s nowhere that amount of water can run off to. (I know, I just ended a sentence with not one, but two prepositions).

There’s something about Louisiana/Mississippi/Alabama that gives the Fundie god a smite-boner.

534 Feline Fearless Leader  Apr 30, 2014 10:11:59am

re: #527 Justanotherhuman

We are also working together to bury my son. If my granddaughter will stop listening to her husband (who is a notorious cheapskate and money-hoarder who will stiff someone in a NY minute), we’ll not have any problems. Even their mother, who is my son’s ex-wife, is contributing and doing a hell of a lot to help.

My granddaughter needs to stop being a doormat, seriously.

The laid back stoics have been most of the survivors so far in this family. Someone volunteers to take care of something and we split the costs afterwards if necessary. Plus a lot of “you pick up the next bill”. We just didn’t sweat details or worry about being “cheated”.

535 Charles Johnson  Apr 30, 2014 10:13:33am

Guess who?

littlegreenfootballs.com

536 Justanotherhuman  Apr 30, 2014 10:13:39am

re: #532 darthstar

There’s nowhere that amount of water can run off to. (I know, I just ended a sentence with not one, but two prepositions).

I think modern English permits some dangling prepositions these days in speech (I even use them in writing comments, often).

But 2? Shame! Hold my beer while I try to correct that sentence…

537 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Apr 30, 2014 10:13:41am

re: #377 Pie-onist Overlord

If you look on labor as just another commodity, like energy, transportation costs, paper clips, toner, etc., then that argument is entirely valid.

And that is the Free market view of things.

If you believe that labor has a human component, the oft-vaunted “dignity of work”, then you have to allow people who work full-time to be able to live and provide for their families, and perhaps even be able to help educate them and train them to move up the economic and social ladder.

538 Kragar  Apr 30, 2014 10:13:51am

re: #533 Decatur Deb

There’s something about Louisiana/Mississippi/Alabama that gives the Fundie god a smite-boner.

California: Home to the godless sodomites and liberals, cursed with 300+ days a year of nice weather

The Bible Belt: Regularly hit with tornadoes, hail, floods, etc

Coincidence?
///

539 kirkspencer  Apr 30, 2014 10:14:08am

re: #499 wrenchwench

I may be using the f word a little extra today. I’m experiencing a flare up of Irritable Sibling Syndrome. My evilest sister sent me two emails yesterday (because she can’t fit all her bile into one) that made me so mad it will take me a week to answer her. I try not to respond angrily because I think it pleases her. She can’t stand it when I’m calm, or when I let her stew for a week.

So I’ll be, um, expressive here, and get it out of my system. I will try to aim carefully.

I can indirectly sympathize. While my siblings and I get along well, my wife’s …

One anecdote. My wife’s mother died a bit less than a month ago. The will didn’t specifically bequest any jewelry but there were some very nice and moderately valuable (and a couple of sentimentally attractive) pieces. My wife is not getting any jewelry, though, because for some reason there is none in the house for the estate sale; it disappeared when two of the sisters took an unaccompanied walk-through.

But my wife’s the one who gets the labels and condemnation for being liberal and “unChristian”. Yeah, I sympathize.

540 Backwoods_Sleuth  Apr 30, 2014 10:15:52am

re: #526 Killgore Trout

I’ve noticed that “new/different” scents on things with the two indoor cats.
Actually, anything new catches their attention immediately. But the new scent thing keeps their attention the longest.

541 Gus  Apr 30, 2014 10:16:30am

I am opposed to Putin and the Russian governments actions in Crimea and Ukraine. Therefore, I must hate Russians, right? O.o

542 Kragar  Apr 30, 2014 10:17:17am

“Elias Alias” then claims that conflicts among militia groups at the ranch can only be the result of FBI infiltration of militias in another “psy-op” on behalf of the “UN’s Agenda 21 domestic usurpations.” He also repeats the debunked rumor that Sen. Harry Reid is working on behalf of a Chinese energy firm. “This is United Nations covert activity inside the United States and it involves the planet’s largest Communist nation, China,” the advisory states. “The Bundy connection connects also the relationship of the BLM to the Reid family. It is deep stuff.”

543 Ed E. Lishus  Apr 30, 2014 10:17:25am

re: #525 Gus

…aaaaaaaaand, there goes the point, flying right over her head.

544 Feline Fearless Leader  Apr 30, 2014 10:17:37am

re: #538 Kragar

California: Home to the godless sodomites and liberals, cursed with 300+ days a year of nice weather

The Bible Belt: Regularly hit with tornadoes, hail, floods, etc

Coincidence?
///

You just save your natural terror up for brush fires and earthquakes.

545 Backwoods_Sleuth  Apr 30, 2014 10:17:45am

re: #535 Charles Johnson

Guess who?

littlegreenfootballs.com

Saw that first thing this morning.
For now, I’m set on “ignore mode”.

546 Pie-onist Overlord  Apr 30, 2014 10:17:56am

re: #537 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

If you look on labor as just another commodity, like energy, transportation costs, paper clips, toner, etc., then that argument is entirely valid.

And that is the Free market view of things.

If you believe that labor has a human component, the oft-vaunted “dignity of work”, then you have to allow people who work full-time to be able to live and provide for their families, and perhaps even be able to help educate them and train them to move up in the economic and social ladder.

The right-wing have an irrational hate on for low-wage workers, part of their desperate desire to have “others” to look down on and feel smugly superior to.

They have this crazy notion that labor is entirely a business expense, like paper clips, and that workers are not also consumers.

547 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Apr 30, 2014 10:17:59am

re: #541 Gus

I am opposed to Putin and the Russian governments actions in Crimea and Ukraine. Therefore, I must hate Russians, right? O.o

You are an Anti-Russite!!!

548 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Apr 30, 2014 10:19:18am

re: #546 Pie-onist Overlord

The right-wing have an irrational hate on for low-wage workers, part of their desperate desire to have “others” to look down on and feel smugly superior to.

They have this crazy notion that labor is entirely a business expense, like paper clips, and that workers are not also consumers.

And if you do not need those toner cartridges any more, you can just put them out in the trash…and if you don’t need those used-up workers, well…

549 Killgore Trout  Apr 30, 2014 10:19:50am

UN Security Council despairs over Syria aid as Russia opposes actions against regime

Members of the U.N. Security Council say they fear that no progress will be made on getting desperately needed humanitarian aid into Syria as long as Russia opposes any actions against the Assad regime.

U.N. humanitarian chief Valerie Amos briefed the council Wednesday and said a resolution passed in February aimed at eliminating obstacles to deliver aid is “not working.”

The resolution threatened “further steps” by the council if its demands aren’t fulfilled, but Russia, Syria’s closest ally, can veto any such action as a permanent council member.

French U.N. ambassador Gerard Araud tweeted from the council meeting, “#UNSC will be haunted by its failure.”

550 Gus  Apr 30, 2014 10:19:51am

re: #547 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

You are an Anti-Russite!!!

I’m opposed to Rick Perry’s policies and Texas Republican leadership therefore I must hate Texans!

551 Justanotherhuman  Apr 30, 2014 10:22:25am

Stop the world! I want to get off.

Syfy orders 3rd ‘Sharknado’ movie - @THR
read more on hollywoodreporter.com

552 Killgore Trout  Apr 30, 2014 10:22:56am

Hooray for isolationism!
47% of Americans want U.S. to be less active in world affairs

Complete poll here (pdf)

553 FemNaziBitch  Apr 30, 2014 10:23:15am

First and most importantly, please share and sign if you wish:

554 Backwoods_Sleuth  Apr 30, 2014 10:23:37am
555 Justanotherhuman  Apr 30, 2014 10:23:59am

Retired Supreme Court Justice John Paul Stevens argues that a constitutional amendment is needed to slow the flow of money into politics - @thehill
read more on thehill.com

556 FemNaziBitch  Apr 30, 2014 10:24:29am

Second, is this execution the one we talked about yesterday with the “untested” drug cocktail. What a farce.

Thirdly, the weather where I am is dismal, but Studs Cardinal is still outside my door singing for a, well you know.

you?

557 Archangelus  Apr 30, 2014 10:25:14am

re: #551 Justanotherhuman

Stop the world! I want to get off.

Syfy orders 3rd ‘Sharknado’ movie - @THR
read more on hollywoodreporter.com

Sharknado 3:

558 Pie-onist Overlord  Apr 30, 2014 10:25:15am

re: #548 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

And if you do not need those toner cartridges any more, you can jut put them out in the trash…and if you don’t need those used-up workers, well…

Also, the wingnuts like to show a photo of a “automatic burger machine!” (actually just an ordering console) that will supposedly replace those pesky workers. They’re too stupid to realize that the “automatic burger machine” is an expensive piece of machinery that requires maintenance (and automatic burger machine service technicians get paid a whole bunch more than minimum wage) and if not serviced regularly they will break down (did I mention that automatic burger machine service technicians get paid A WHOLE BUNCH MORE than minimum wage?)

559 blueraven  Apr 30, 2014 10:25:21am

re: #541 Gus

I am opposed to Putin and the Russian governments actions in Crimea and Ukraine. Therefore, I must hate Russians, right? O.o

Right!

I am so sick of any criticism of Netanyahu policy turned into antisemitism.
On the other hand, the left tend to cry racism way to often.

Cliven Bundy
Donald Sterling
these people are racist.

I wish we could all keep a little perspective

560 freetoken  Apr 30, 2014 10:25:37am

re: #523 Gus

“I found the tone and topics of coverage while I was sitting in the green room this morning to be not something that I wanted to be a part of in the future,” he said. “I didn’t realize that the drumbeat of conservative propaganda was so ubiquitous on the show.”

Perhaps he’s not been paying attention?

561 Gus  Apr 30, 2014 10:26:58am

re: #560 freetoken

Perhaps he’s not been paying attention?

Probably busy with other things.

562 Kragar  Apr 30, 2014 10:27:37am

re: #551 Justanotherhuman

Stop the world! I want to get off.

Syfy orders 3rd ‘Sharknado’ movie - @THR
read more on hollywoodreporter.com

Which reminds me: Rifftrax is doing their live Sharknado event in June

563 Feline Fearless Leader  Apr 30, 2014 10:28:22am

re: #558 Pie-onist Overlord

Also, the wingnuts like to show a photo of a “automatic burger machine!” (actually just an ordering console) that will supposedly replace those pesky workers. They’re too stupid to realize that the “automatic burger machine” is an expensive piece of machinery that requires maintenance (and automatic burger machine service technicians get paid a whole bunch more than minimum wage) and if not serviced regularly they will break down (did I mention that automatic burger machine service technicians get paid A WHOLE BUNCH MORE than minimum wage?)

And the fast food companies have already done that math. I don’t think the “automatic burger machine” will go mop the floors and wipe down the counters and other surfaces during closing. Unless some sort of special McRoomba is rolled out at the same time.

564 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Apr 30, 2014 10:28:26am

re: #552 Killgore Trout

Hooray for isolationism!
47% of Americans want U.S. to be less active in world affairs

Complete poll here (pdf)

active or meddlesome? There is a big distinction here…

565 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Apr 30, 2014 10:28:45am

re: #557 Archangelus

Sharknado 3:
[Embedded image]

Grizzlard!!!

566 freetoken  Apr 30, 2014 10:29:30am

re: #561 Gus

Probably busy with other things.

I find it puzzling that an editor in an American media outlet wouldn’t be fully aware of the nature of Fox News.

567 Feline Fearless Leader  Apr 30, 2014 10:29:32am

re: #560 freetoken

Perhaps he’s not been paying attention?

Might have taken 2-3 data points before he was willing to start drawing conclusions.

568 Gus  Apr 30, 2014 10:29:43am

If I could reduce my take on Israel and Palestine I would put it as the far-left and the far-right are both wrong.

569 FemNaziBitch  Apr 30, 2014 10:30:50am

re: #564 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

active or meddlesome? There is a big distinction here…

Good luck, we are in a Brave New World.

570 GunstarGreen  Apr 30, 2014 10:31:08am

re: #566 freetoken

I find it puzzling that an editor in an American media outlet wouldn’t be fully aware of the nature of Fox News.

Denial: It’s not just a river in Egypt.

American journalists don’t want to believe that full-on, unabashed propaganda could be alive and well in the United States of America in the year 2014.

571 Feline Fearless Leader  Apr 30, 2014 10:31:42am

re: #569 FemNaziBitch

Good luck, we are in a Brave New World.

And no soma in sight.

572 CuriousLurker  Apr 30, 2014 10:37:25am

re: #568 Gus

If I could reduce my take on Israel and Palestine I would put it as the far-left and the far-right are both wrong.

I’ve finally decided that I found the only stance that makes sense to me, from one of my recent pages:

From now on, if anyone asks about my stance on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, I’ll answer by borrowing from his words at the end of the essay “Between Right and Right” regarding a two-state compromise being the only viable solution to what is, in essence, a property dispute (emphasis mine):

This is going to hurt like hell. So, if you have an ounce of sympathy to offer, now is the time to extend it to the two patients. You no longer have to choose between being pro-Israel and pro-Palestine. You have to be pro-peace.

I will be pro-peace. Thank you for the clarity, Mr. Oz.

He’s an atheist, BTW. Should I be worried that I keep finding myself in agreement with them?? //

573 Gus  Apr 30, 2014 10:44:31am

re: #572 CuriousLurker

I’ve finally decided that I found the only stance that makes sense to me, from one of my recent pages:

I will be pro-peace. Thank you for the clarity, Mr. Oz.

He’s an atheist, BTW. Should I be worried that I keep finding myself in agreement with them?? //

Nope. :D I disagree with them a lot times. Them as in the “atheist leadership.” I actually changed my Twitter profile from “atheist” to “non believer.”

574 Gus  Apr 30, 2014 10:46:04am

Speaking of which.

575 wrenchwench  Apr 30, 2014 10:46:11am

re: #572 CuriousLurker

I’ve finally decided that I found the only stance that makes sense to me, from one of my recent pages:

I will be pro-peace. Thank you for the clarity, Mr. Oz.

He’s an atheist, BTW. Should I be worried that I keep finding myself in agreement with them?? //

We have cookies, too.

But no songs.

Youtube Video

576 Lidane  Apr 30, 2014 10:49:14am

Heh. Awesome.

577 Eventual Carrion  Apr 30, 2014 10:49:25am

re: #542 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Everything is “deep stuff” when you are shallow minded.

578 RealityBasedSteve  Apr 30, 2014 11:03:50am

re: #542 Kragar
“The Bundy connection connects also the relationship of the BLM to the Reid family. It is deep stuff.”

[Embedded content]

It is deep stuff.” Yea… it is deep, but not quite in the way you are trying to use the term.


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