James Dobson Calls Obama ‘Abortion President’ at Allegedly ‘Non-Partisan’ Prayer Day Event

May 2, 2014 by Simon Brown
Religion • Views: 19,156

If anyone was still unconvinced prior to yesterday that the National Day of Prayer (NDP) is little more than a fundamentalist Christian political rally, Focus on the Family founder James Dobson’s rant on Capitol Hill should have erased any doubts.

During an event organized by the National Day of Prayer Task Force (a non-profit run by conservative evangelical Christians) and attended by members of the U.S. House of Representatives, Dobson slammed President Barack Obama, calling him the “abortion president.”

In a lengthy rant at an event that was supposed to be about prayer, not politics, Dobson attacked Obama primarily for his support of the Affordable Care Act’s contraceptive mandate, which says that most businesses must offer insurance plans to their employees that include access to no-cost birth control.

“President Obama, before he was elected, made it very clear that he wanted to be the abortion president,” Dobson fulminated. “He didn’t make any bones about it. This is something that he really was going to promote and support, and he has done that, and in a sense he is the abortion president.”

He also called the regulations “wicked” and vowed to never abide by them.

Dobson’s opposition to the birth control mandate isn’t exactly a secret. His Family Talk radio program recently won a temporary reprieve from offering employees birth control in their insurance plans thanks to a legal challenge. Dobson claims his 28-employee organization is a Christian ministry and therefore should be exempt on religious grounds

More: Politicizing Prayer: James Dobson Calls Obama ‘Abortion President’ at Allegedly ‘Non-Partisan’ Prayer Day Event

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147 comments

1 Tigger2  May 2, 2014 8:37:10pm

Well I guess we will have to start calling the GOP and the Religious Leaders “Mommy Killers” if they ever do get abortions banned in all cases even medical emergency’s.

2 steve_davis  May 3, 2014 5:22:14am

re: #1 Tigger2

Well I guess we will have to start calling the GOP and the Religious Leaders “Mommy Killers” if they ever do get abortions banned in all cases even medical emergency’s.

Women aren’t fetuses, which in the eyes of the GOP means they aren’t actually human.

3 Romantic Heretic  May 3, 2014 7:18:05am

In the minds of these loons ‘non-partisan’ means ‘things will be done our way, or else.’

4 Keep Texas Prisons Rapey!1!1!1!!!  May 3, 2014 10:33:45am

Shouldn’t there tax exempt status be taken away?

5 Charles Johnson  May 3, 2014 10:59:25am
6 Skip Intro  May 3, 2014 11:02:46am

re: #5 Charles Johnson

Lots of stupid, government sponsered religious things happened in the 1950s. National Prayer Day, In God We Trust on coins, crap like that. I blame those damn godless commies.

How we ever survived as a nation before we did that is a complete mystery.

7 Stanley Sea  May 3, 2014 11:03:28am

Birth control. We are dealing with the availability of birth control.

In 2014.

It’s sickening.

8 sattv4u2  May 3, 2014 11:09:29am

re: #6 Skip Intro

Lots of stupid, government sponsered religious things happened in the 1950s. National Prayer Day, In God We Trust on coins, crap like that. I blame those damn godless commies.

How we ever survived as a nation before we did that is a complete mystery.

That wasn’t it’s genesis

From Wiki
days of prayer have been called for since 1775, when the Continental Congress designated a time for prayer in forming a new nation.[3]

More here

en.wikipedia.org

9 Rocky-in-Connecticut  May 3, 2014 11:09:29am

religious timeline in America link:

civilliberty.about.com

It’s been a tug of war ever since the late 1700’s, with the religious right seemingly winning the overall war. I fear it will get worse as the white evangelical plurality grows more and more fanatical and ignorant.

10 Gus  May 3, 2014 11:09:50am

re: #5 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Dang it. Was just about to comment something like that…

“National Day of Prayer by government decree. See Establishment Clause.”

11 Ryan King  May 3, 2014 11:14:16am

National Theocracy Day if we are not talking in euphemisms.

12 Gus  May 3, 2014 11:15:46am

I keep forgetting though how people can’t pray anytime they wish.

13 Rev_Arthur_Belling  May 3, 2014 11:16:31am

I really believe Dobson has gone senile. He’s always been a crank, but over the last few years, he seems to be even moreso.

14 Lidane  May 3, 2014 11:19:28am

re: #7 Stanley Sea

Birth control. We are dealing with the availability of birth control.

In 2014.

It’s sickening.

Not only that, but we now have troglodytes on the right seriously pushing the idea that women voting hurts the family.

And we have people saying that slavery wasn’t that bad and that it was probably better than welfare or a minimum wage.

The American right wing in 2014 has gone off the fucking rails. How can anyone justify supporting or voting for these people? WTF.

15 ObserverArt  May 3, 2014 11:21:56am

Non partisan must now mean no partisans (opposing views) allowed.

I always like to keep up and relearn a word a day!

/

16 Charles Johnson  May 3, 2014 11:22:44am

re: #8 sattv4u2

That wasn’t it’s genesis

From Wiki
days of prayer have been called for since 1775, when the Continental Congress designated a time for prayer in forming a new nation.[3]

More here

en.wikipedia.org

The Annual National Day of Prayer

Those who assume this is a relic of the colonial era are mistaken. In the early 1950s, when lawmakers were adding “under God” to the Pledge and changing all American money to include the phrase “In God We Trust,” Congress created an official annual Prayer Day for the nation. Congress, under pressure from the religious right, changed the law in 1988 to set the National Day of Prayer as the first Thursday in May.

17 Skip Intro  May 3, 2014 11:24:59am

re: #8 sattv4u2

The modern law formalizing its annual observance was enacted in 1952

18 Charles Johnson  May 3, 2014 11:25:13am

Thomas Jefferson and James Madison both opposed the idea of a National Day of Prayer.

19 Charles Johnson  May 3, 2014 11:26:29am

It’s interesting to note, however, that religious fanatics have been trying to force this idea on everyone in the country for as long as the country has existed.

20 Rev_Arthur_Belling  May 3, 2014 11:27:54am

re: #18 Charles Johnson

Thomas Jefferson and James Madison both opposed the idea of a National Day of Prayer.

LIES! LIES! THIS COUNTRY WAS FOUNDED AS A CHRISTIAN NATION!
/talibangelical

21 Charles Johnson  May 3, 2014 11:28:03am

It took the fanatics until 1952 to succeed.

We’re going backwards in some ways.

22 Rev_Arthur_Belling  May 3, 2014 11:30:33am

re: #21 Charles Johnson

I really do think the Cold War-era “Godless Communism” canard promoted by the likes of McCarthy (as mentioned by #6 Skip Intro above) was the pretext to let this crap sail by the Bill of Rights.

23 Floral Giraffe  May 3, 2014 11:31:22am

re: #7 Stanley Sea

Birth control. We are dealing with the availability of birth control.

In 2014.

It’s sickening.

Quoted for truth!

24 Charles Johnson  May 3, 2014 11:31:54am
25 Lidane  May 3, 2014 11:34:47am

re: #22 Rev_Arthur_Belling

I really do think the Cold War-era “Godless Communism” canard promoted by the likes of McCarthy (as mentioned by #6 Skip Intro above) was the pretext to let this crap sail by the Bill of Rights.

Even my predictable, Allen West/Joe the Plumber/Heritage quoting wingnut friend knows that McCarthyism was bad and that he wasn’t a hero, but one of his friends is an even bigger wingnut swearing up and down that McCarthy was right and that there were thousands of Soviet infiltrators that pushed all sorts of godless commie ideas like Bretton Woods on America.

I didn’t even know what to say to any of that so I’m just going to bow out of that debate. WTF.

26 Ryan King  May 3, 2014 11:36:09am

re: #24 Charles Johnson

I couldn’t make it. Was only 3 days old and was pooping a lot.

27 Lidane  May 3, 2014 11:38:36am

re: #24 Charles Johnson

Yeah, I couldn’t be there, since I wasn’t born yet. Heh. ;)

28 sattv4u2  May 3, 2014 11:39:01am

re: #26 Ryan King

I couldn’t make it. Was only 3 days old and was pooping a lot.

So aside from the age has anything else changed??

29 Charles Johnson  May 3, 2014 11:39:18am

re: #26 Ryan King

I couldn’t make it. Was only 3 days old and was pooping a lot.

I remember thinking they were kind of sloppy that night, and Plant’s voice was shot. But Jimmy Page was a god to me.

30 Rocky-in-Connecticut  May 3, 2014 11:39:53am

The 2004 Elk Grove v. Newdow Supreme Court decision has to be one of the worst decisions in terms of its reasoning. The ruling that keeping God in the Pledge “celebrates American religious heritage rather than affirming a religious belief” is beyond stupid in its illogic. Could someone please explain how recognizing a “heritage” held by SOME Americans is not promoting the actual belief? Then why not put Native American nature deities on Americas coins and documents as well? Or how about the heritage of Asian Americans (who built much of our railroad infrastructure) by recognizing Buddha?

Idiotic, illogical ruling. Probably the most cowardly ruling as well- afraid of the explosion from the religious right.

31 Rev_Arthur_Belling  May 3, 2014 11:40:22am

re: #25 Lidane

I think Ann Coulter wants to exhume McCarthy’s corpse and fellate it - IIRC, that was one of her books.

32 Randall Gross  May 3, 2014 11:42:53am

re: #31 Rev_Arthur_Belling

I think Ann Coulter wants to exhume McCarthy’s corpse and fellate it - IIRC, that was one of her books.

Yes it was, and I read it cover to cover when I was still a wingnut. I also believe it was by reading Ann Coulter and thinking “this seems a bit over the top…” that I began to question the overwrought hyperbole on the right.

33 Rev_Arthur_Belling  May 3, 2014 11:42:54am

re: #30 Rocky-in-Connecticut

In God/Allah/Vishnu/Cthulhu/FSM/Buddha/Quetzalcoatl/Jah/Zeus/Odin/Mother Earth/Etc. We Trust

We’re going to need bigger coins!

34 Randall Gross  May 3, 2014 11:43:34am

re: #33 Rev_Arthur_Belling

In God/Allah/Vishnu/Cthulhu/FSM/Buddha/Quetzalcoatl/Jah/Zeus/Odin/Mother Earth/Etc. We Trust

Speak for yourself, I’m an atheist… :P

35 Rev_Arthur_Belling  May 3, 2014 11:44:29am

re: #34 Randall Gross

Speak for yourself, I’m an atheist… :P

I only made a partial list ;) “No deity” would surely be in with the rest of the pantheon.

36 Ryan King  May 3, 2014 11:45:43am

re: #29 Charles Johnson

I remember thinking they were kind of sloppy that night, and Plant’s voice was shot. But Jimmy Page was a god to me.

He’s my favorite Sloppy Genius. Except for the Jimi guy.

37 Ryan King  May 3, 2014 11:51:29am

re: #34 Randall Gross

Speak for yourself, I’m an atheist… :P

In Whatever Can be Peer Reviewed By the Scientific Method We Trust.

Yes, the coins will need chains to hang around our neck rapper style.

38 Rev_Arthur_Belling  May 3, 2014 11:54:32am

re: #37 Ryan King

We’re just going to go to the Rai Stone monetary standard.

en.wikipedia.org

39 Rocky-in-Connecticut  May 3, 2014 11:55:30am

this little gem is the first hand salute to be adopted for the new Pledge of Allegiance in 1942.

Image: Students_pledging_allegiance_to_the_American_flag_with_the_Bellamy_salute.jpg

BTW, the POA author Bellamy was a Christian Socialist. So anytime you hear a right winger/Faux News chucklhead rant about those who refuse to recite the Pledge as “Commies” “Liberals” etc etc just shake your head and wonder if they do any research at all. The POA is a Socialist tradition of submission.

40 Skip Intro  May 3, 2014 12:00:44pm

re: #39 Rocky-in-Connecticut

You have to wonder how that little gem was acceptable since the Nazis had been using it for decades.

41 darthstar  May 3, 2014 12:06:02pm
42 freetoken  May 3, 2014 12:06:58pm

re: #40 Skip Intro

I thought we had a discussion here, a year or two ago, about straight-arm salutes. Memory is vague, but I seem to remember we went round and round.

43 Skip Intro  May 3, 2014 12:12:32pm

re: #42 freetoken

We did. Don’t remember much about it though.

44 freetoken  May 3, 2014 12:13:12pm

Gun fetishits feign surprise that anyone would consider them threatening if they show up en masse with their fetish at a public location:

Texas gun group’s protest sends restaurant employees fleeing for freezer as cops respond

[…]

Haros is an Open Carry Texas member who believes it is his right to carry his Smith and Wesson semi-automatic rifle with him at all times and in all situations.

“We’re not breaking the laws,” Haros complained. “We’re not here to hurt anybody. We’re not trying to alarm anybody. We’re doing this because it’s our constitutional right.

[…]

45 thedopefishlives  May 3, 2014 12:18:29pm

re: #44 freetoken

Gun fetishits

Not sure if intentional, but I like it.

46 Lidane  May 3, 2014 12:23:17pm

Constitutional law, you’re doing it wrong:

47 Ryan King  May 3, 2014 12:27:25pm

re: #45 thedopefishlives

Not sure if intentional, but I like it.

It’s been approved by the 7 Committees after a thorough review in the Portmanteau Committee. It’s a combination of fetishist and dipshit.

Plus Charles gets an upding for Portmanteau not getting redlined by spell check.

But upding and redlined get spell checked… DAMMIT.

48 Varek Raith  May 3, 2014 12:41:03pm

re: #44 freetoken

Gun fetishits feign surprise that anyone would consider them threatening if they show up en masse with their fetish at a public location:

Texas gun group’s protest sends restaurant employees fleeing for freezer as cops respond

If a group of heavily armed men entered my establishment, my first thought would not be, ‘Oh, they’re peacefully using their 2nd amendment rights’.
No, it would be, ‘Dear Jesus, they’re going to rob us’.
What morons.

49 Kragar  May 3, 2014 12:43:33pm

re: #44 freetoken

Gun fetishits feign surprise that anyone would consider them threatening if they show up en masse with their fetish at a public location:

Texas gun group’s protest sends restaurant employees fleeing for freezer as cops respond

My constitutional rights say I can stand out in the open, call them a bunch of ignorant psychotic morons, and yet they still get offended.

50 Mattand  May 3, 2014 12:48:25pm

re: #44 freetoken

Gun fetishits feign surprise that anyone would consider them threatening if they show up en masse with their fetish at a public location:

Texas gun group’s protest sends restaurant employees fleeing for freezer as cops respond

I really can’t help but feel sorry for these nitwits. At their core, they’re just sad, scared little children, so lacking in positive self-image and seeing the boogey man everywhere.

Also, sad scared little children tend to lash out when frightened and confused. Being armed to the teeth like wannabe Rambos probably makes the likelihood of tragedy that much worse.

51 Mattand  May 3, 2014 12:49:16pm

re: #49 Kragar

My constitutional rights say I can stand out in the open, call them a bunch of ignorant psychotic morons, and yet they still get offended.

Odds are one of them will prove you right by taking a shot at you.

52 Charles Johnson  May 3, 2014 12:49:23pm

re: #44 freetoken

Gun fetishits feign surprise that anyone would consider them threatening if they show up en masse with their fetish at a public location:

Texas gun group’s protest sends restaurant employees fleeing for freezer as cops respond

Unreal.

Haros told Channel 5 that police should understand that for people like him to openly carry firearms helps law enforcement.

“It’s just for safety purposes,” he said. “Officers can’t be there at all times. We understand that. They can only do so much.”

Yeah, well, they got there pretty damned fast when you chuckleheaded gun kooks showed up, didn’t they?

53 Dr Lizardo  May 3, 2014 12:49:55pm

re: #48 Varek Raith

If a group of heavily armed men entered my establishment, my first thought would not be, ‘Oh, they’re peacefully using their 2nd amendment rights’.
No, it would be, ‘Dear Jesus, they’re going to rob us’.
What morons.

One of these days, one of these numbnuts is gonna get himself shot.

54 Lidane  May 3, 2014 12:49:56pm

re: #48 Varek Raith

If a group of heavily armed men entered my establishment, my first thought would not be, ‘Oh, they’re peacefully using their 2nd amendment rights’.
No, it would be, ‘Dear Jesus, they’re going to rob us’.
What morons.

Yeah, pretty much. My first instinct if I was sitting in a restaurant and a bunch of heavily armed yahoos walked through the door? I wouldn’t think “Harmless gun protesters!” I’d grab my purse, run to the bathroom and dial 911 immediately.

55 thedopefishlives  May 3, 2014 12:50:06pm

OT: One of my nephews just underwent surgery (presumably a bone-marrow transplant) for his leukemia relapse. I’m hopeful it went well, but I haven’t heard anything yet. He’s just a kid and it makes me sad to see this, especially since he belongs to the anti-medicine fundamentalist wing of our extended family and it’s a near thing that he even got treatment at all the first time.

56 TedStriker  May 3, 2014 12:50:49pm

re: #49 Kragar

My constitutional rights say I can stand out in the open, call them a bunch of ignorant psychotic morons, and yet they still get offended.

Or worse, going back to the death and arson threats that one gun shop owner’s been getting threats for daring to carry that (really expensive) smart gun setup.

57 jaunte  May 3, 2014 12:51:02pm
Haros told Channel 5 that police should understand that for people like him* to openly carry firearms helps law enforcement.

*pale skinned

58 TedStriker  May 3, 2014 12:51:58pm

re: #53 Dr Lizardo

One of these days, one of these numbnuts is gonna get himself shot.

Or shoot an innocent because they “thought they saw something”.

59 Mattand  May 3, 2014 12:53:20pm

re: #55 thedopefishlives

OT: One of my nephews just underwent surgery (presumably a bone-marrow transplant) for his leukemia relapse. I’m hopeful it went well, but I haven’t heard anything yet. He’s just a kid and it makes me sad to see this, especially since he belongs to the anti-medicine fundamentalist wing of our extended family and it’s a near thing that he even got treatment at all the first time.

Ugh. Sorry to hear that. Hope he has a full recovery.

60 Dark_Falcon  May 3, 2014 12:55:45pm

Dear James Dobson,

In 2008, you forced John McCain to drop his plans to make Joe Lieberman his running mate and forced him to pick your style of “Christian Conservative”, thereby causing him to nominate Sarah Palin for VP. For all the stupidity that has resulted from this action of yours I can never forgive you. May your plans all fail and your ambitions be turned to dust.

Fuck You Very Much,

Dark_Falcon

61 TedStriker  May 3, 2014 12:55:55pm

re: #52 Charles Johnson

Unreal.

Yeah, well, they got there pretty damned fast when you chuckleheaded gun kooks showed up, didn’t they?

RWNJs have been kidding themselves about this for years, but us sane people know that incidents like this are just a legal way for these oh-so-macho whackjobs to walk out in public with their penis substitutes swing to-and-fro.

62 Dr Lizardo  May 3, 2014 12:56:49pm

re: #58 TedStriker

Or shoot an innocent because they “thought they saw something”.

I could see a situation where someone who’s carrying concealed sees a bunch of armed guys entering an establishment, and deciding he’s Dirty Harry, drops one or two of the open-carriers.

Then the shit hits the fan.

63 Mattand  May 3, 2014 1:01:05pm

re: #52 Charles Johnson

Unreal.

Yeah, well, they got there pretty damned fast when you chuckleheaded gun kooks showed up, didn’t they?

It should also be noted that said chuckleheaded gun kooks would have probably pissed their pants had a group of black or Latino men had tried this same stunt.

64 Dark_Falcon  May 3, 2014 1:11:38pm

re: #63 Mattand

It should also be noted that said chuckleheaded gun kooks would have probably pissed their pants had a group of black or Latino men had tried this same stunt.

Well, I wouldn’t have done THAT, but if black men had pulled that stunt I would have been running out the back door and called 911 as soon as I was clear. With whites, Asians, or Latinos, I’d be worried but I don’t think I’d bolt.

And yes, the above means I admit that I’d react to the same overall situation differently depending on the race of the people involved. Think of it what you will, but I’d rather just be honest and admit how I feel.

65 CuriousLurker  May 3, 2014 1:12:24pm

re: #63 Mattand

It should also be noted that said chuckleheaded gun kooks would have probably pissed their pants had a group of black or Latino men had tried this same stunt.

Imagine if it had been a group of armed, bearded Muslims carrying a shahadah flag: ZOMG shariah is heeeeeere!!11! The Texas caliphate is nigh!!

And by now they’d probably be sitting in Gitmo.

66 Lidane  May 3, 2014 1:14:42pm

Rebranding:

67 Lidane  May 3, 2014 1:16:05pm

re: #63 Mattand

It should also be noted that said chuckleheaded gun kooks would have probably pissed their pants had a group of black or Latino men had tried this same stunt.

Seriously. These “harmless gun protesters” reek of white privilege and they don’t even admit it. Anyone else would have been rounded up and sent to jail if not shot on sight, but these dipshits are still able to talk to the media.

68 CuriousLurker  May 3, 2014 1:19:55pm

re: #64 Dark_Falcon

Well, I wouldn’t have done THAT, but if black men had pulled that stunt I would have been running out the back door and called 911 as soon as I was clear. With whites, Asians, or Latinos, I’d be worried but I don’t think I’d bolt.

And yes, the above means I admit that I’d react to the same overall situation differently depending on the race of the people involved. Think of it what you will, but I’d rather just be honest and admit how I feel.

See, this is where empathy comes in. If you know how you’d feel if it was black men, then you know exactly how people of color & other minorities feel at the sight of armed white men, especially in the South.

69 jaunte  May 3, 2014 1:26:11pm

Maryland dealer, under pressure from gun-rights activists, drops plan to sell smart gun

“…A Rockville gun store owner who said he would sell the nation’s first smart gun — even after a California gun store removed the weapon from its shelves to placate angry gun-rights activists — backed down late Thursday night after enduring a day of protests and death threats.”

Gun enthusiasts expressed their displeasure on Maryland Shooters, an online forum:
“My watch has a dead battery . . . do I die in a gun fight?”

70 Keep Texas Prisons Rapey!1!1!1!!!  May 3, 2014 1:27:37pm

I do not understand some white men’s fear (and sexual intrigue) of black men. They have been very objectified.
I have never feared black or Hispanic criminals more than white.
Maybe because, growing up as a girl, I never feared theft or petty crimes, I feared all the rapists and serial killers. And they have almost always been overwhelmingly white.

71 CuriousLurker  May 3, 2014 1:27:49pm

re: #68 CuriousLurker

See, this is where empathy comes in. If you know how you’d feel if it was black men, then you know exactly how minorities people of color feel at the sight of armed white men, especially in the South.

Editied to read “people of color & other minorities” as I’m sure Orthodox Jews, observant Sikhs, same sex couples, etc. would feel just as nervous.

72 Lidane  May 3, 2014 1:28:25pm

re: #68 CuriousLurker

See, this is where empathy comes in. If you know how you’d feel if it was black men, then you know exactly how people of color & other minorities feel at the sight of armed white men, especially in the South.

Yeah, the “in the South” thing is what would really set my teeth on edge.

A group of openly armed white guys walking into a restaurant here? I’m immediately thinking neo-Confederate militia nutters or some sort of Tea Party/Minutemen type. The kind of bigoted assholes who would have deported me when I was a kid because I didn’t learn English until I was around 4 years old. I certainly don’t think, “Gee, those chaps are just protecting their Second Amendment rights!” It would freak me the hell out.

73 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  May 3, 2014 1:28:39pm

74 BongCrodny  May 3, 2014 1:29:54pm

re: #11 Ryan King

National Theocracy Day if we are not talking in euphemisms.

National My-God-Is-Better-Than-Your-God Day

75 jamesfirecat  May 3, 2014 1:30:56pm

re: #64 Dark_Falcon

Well, I wouldn’t have done THAT, but if black men had pulled that stunt I would have been running out the back door and called 911 as soon as I was clear. With whites, Asians, or Latinos, I’d be worried but I don’t think I’d bolt.

And yes, the above means I admit that I’d react to the same overall situation differently depending on the race of the people involved. Think of it what you will, but I’d rather just be honest and admit how I feel.

Sf debris had a very well put line about Kirk’s ego.

“He posses a flaw that blinds him to things, but he is not blind to the flaw itself.”

I appreciate your honestly DF and even when we disagree it never feels like you are just winding me up.

76 Keep Texas Prisons Rapey!1!1!1!!!  May 3, 2014 1:31:47pm

I do not get wingnut humor. I may be showing my bias here, but to me, lefty’s are just more clever and funny!

77 Lidane  May 3, 2014 1:32:37pm
78 Lidane  May 3, 2014 1:33:55pm

re: #76 Keep Texas Prisons Rapey!1!1!1!!!

Conservatives don’t understand comedy. At all.

79 jaunte  May 3, 2014 1:33:55pm

re: #76 Keep Texas Prisons Rapey!1!1!1!!!

Could be another planet with a big sugar industry.

80 Keep Texas Prisons Rapey!1!1!1!!!  May 3, 2014 1:34:20pm

re: #75 jamesfirecat

I appreciate your honestly DF and even when we disagree it never feels like you are just winding me up.

DF is good people.

81 RadicalModerate  May 3, 2014 1:34:58pm

re: #46 Lidane

Constitutional law, you’re doing it wrong:

[Embedded content]

Moore has been removed from office once for forcing his religious views onto the public. It is high time he gets another judicial review and disbarred for life because he has absolutely no respect for the United States Constitution, and has acted on multiple occasions to subvert it.

82 jamesfirecat  May 3, 2014 1:36:37pm

re: #78 Lidane

Conservatives don’t understand comedy. At all.

///When conservatives watch Trading Places, they root for the Duke brothers.

83 Ryan King  May 3, 2014 1:36:59pm

I’m sure this is on Charles radar:

Republican Legislator Pens Fantastically Crude, Obsessive Op-Ed About Anal Sex

Nothing funnier than a crude prude talking about teh butt seks.

84 jaunte  May 3, 2014 1:37:19pm

Russia sets Ukraine gas bill deadline

Russia has given Ukraine until the end of the month to make an advanced payment for natural gas or risk being cut off from June 1.

Russian Energy Minister Alexander Novak said state gas exporter Gazprom would issue the June gas bill on May 16. Ukraine would then have until May 31 to pay.

85 Dark_Falcon  May 3, 2014 1:39:13pm

re: #79 jaunte

Could be another planet with a big sugar industry.

Ours isn’t all that large, relatively speaking, just very well subsidized. Most people, liberal and conservative, don’t like those subsidies. But because their objections and harms suffered are relatively minor, the small minority who benefits from the subsidies always wins the argument when the time comes to pass an agriculture bill.

86 jaunte  May 3, 2014 1:43:25pm

re: #85 Dark_Falcon

Unfortunately it’s one of those examples of government waste that is almost impossible to get rid of because it’s not a big enough irritant.

87 freetoken  May 3, 2014 1:54:49pm

re: #45 thedopefishlives

Not sure if intentional, but I like it.

My subconscious takes control of my typing-fingers at times.

88 jaunte  May 3, 2014 1:56:42pm
89 Dr Lizardo  May 3, 2014 1:57:10pm

re: #82 jamesfirecat

///When conservatives watch Trading Places, they root for the Duke brothers.

When conservatives watch “All In The Family”, they don’t understand that it’s making fun of them.

90 thedopefishlives  May 3, 2014 1:57:14pm

re: #88 jaunte

35W? So these are Minnesota rednecks? Dafuq is this shit.

91 Ryan King  May 3, 2014 1:57:48pm

re: #88 jaunte

Look at all that ManSeksi.

92 jaunte  May 3, 2014 1:58:22pm

re: #90 thedopefishlives

Fort Worth:
en.wikipedia.org

93 thedopefishlives  May 3, 2014 2:02:55pm

re: #92 jaunte

Fort Worth:
en.wikipedia.org

Interesting. I never would’ve known. Stupid Texans, stealing our road signs.

94 Stanley Sea  May 3, 2014 2:04:23pm

re: #88 jaunte

[Embedded content]

What the hell is that cannon that dude is holding?
What the hell is its purpose?

95 jaunte  May 3, 2014 2:08:00pm

re: #94 Stanley Sea

Not sure. Could be the Meinzbigger Tactical Bluffer.

96 thedopefishlives  May 3, 2014 2:09:04pm

re: #94 Stanley Sea

What the hell is that cannon that dude is holding?
What the hell is its purpose?

It’s a penis extension. For men who are, uhh, “challenged”.

97 freetoken  May 3, 2014 2:10:11pm

re: #88 jaunte

Also I’m struck at the cultural statement that posing at a typically ugly intersection of a feeder road and an Interstate makes.

It’s ugly on ugly.

The starkness of the brutalism-like transportation architecture harmonizes well with the cultural statement of the fetishists.

98 Dark_Falcon  May 3, 2014 2:13:39pm

re: #94 Stanley Sea

What the hell is that cannon that dude is holding?
What the hell is its purpose?

It looks like an larger than normal handguard, one that fits all around the barrel. The normal reason for that is to keep the hands and handguard away from a free-floating barrel, which means a barrel that does not come into contact with the handguard at all. The object of all this is to minimize external vibration’s effect upon the barrel and thereby increase accuracy. As supporting evidence I cite the ‘club’-type stock, which is larger than normal to help increase accuracy.

Basically that odd-looking rifle has been optimized for accuracy at a considerable cost in weight and bulk.

Edited. It’s been pointed out that the weapon in question is likely a bullpup shotgun.

99 Ryan King  May 3, 2014 2:18:24pm

re: #97 freetoken

Also I’m struck at the cultural statement that posing at a typically ugly intersection of a feeder road and an Interstate makes.

It’s ugly on ugly.

The starkness of the brutalism-like transportation architecture harmonizes well with the cultural statement of the fetishists.

re: #98 Dark_Falcon

Basically that odd-looking rifle has been optimized for accuracy at a considerable cost in weight and bulk.

And it makes it bigger, which optimizes the ManSeksi factor.

I’m getting a David Attenborough:

“The Manseksi Redneck group together in small to large packs, with large semi automatic weapons borne to impress rivals and attract mates. The mating ritual of the Manseksi Redneck is rare as it typically follows excessive amounts of cheap bland beer and happens quickly right before sleep.”

100 Jack Burton  May 3, 2014 2:19:59pm

re: #88 jaunte

It looks like one of those guys has a UTS-15, so he’s not a problem or intimidating.

That thing jams more than it fires, it’s a complete steaming pile.

101 Dr Lizardo  May 3, 2014 2:21:23pm

re: #100 Jack Burton

It looks like one of those guys has a UTS-15, so he’s not a problem or intimidating.

That thing jams more than it fires, it’s a complete steaming pile.

Like the AMT .44 AutoMag. Impressive looking pistol, but not terribly reliable. My father had five of them, and he sold them for a small fortune in the late 1990s. He gave me one as a birthday present when I turned 21.

102 Stanley Sea  May 3, 2014 2:23:32pm
103 BongCrodny  May 3, 2014 2:23:51pm

re: #88 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Not much restraint with the guns or the food there.

104 RadicalModerate  May 3, 2014 2:25:40pm

re: #92 jaunte

Fort Worth:
en.wikipedia.org

If anyone is interested, the exact location is on the corner of Sycamore School Road and I-35W in south Fort Worth, Texas.

Here’s a link to the street corner in Google Maps.
google.com

By the way, the street is aptly-named. Where these individuals are standing is roughly 1000 feet away from an elementary school.

105 goddamnedfrank  May 3, 2014 2:30:08pm

re: #98 Dark_Falcon

It looks like an larger than normal handguard, one that fits all around the barrel. The normal reason for that is to keep the hands and handguard away from a free-floating barrel, which means a barrel that does not come into contact with the handguard at all. The object of all this is to minimize external vibration’s effect upon the barrel and thereby increase accuracy. As supporting evidence I cite the ‘club’-type stock, which is larger than normal to help increase accuracy.

Basically that odd-looking rifle has been optimized for accuracy at a considerable cost in weight and bulk.

Looks more like a Keltec KSG with a choke tube and short mag extensions. If it’s a rifle where’s the box mag? And that second tube under the barrel probably isn’t a gas cylinder or it’d be connected to the barrel at the forward point.

106 John Vreeland  May 3, 2014 2:30:31pm
107 Stanley Sea  May 3, 2014 2:32:57pm

re: #105 goddamnedfrank

Looks more like a Keltec KSG with a choke tube and short mag extensions. If it’s a rifle where’s the box mag? And that second tube under the barrel probably isn’t a gas cylinder or it’d be connected to the barrel at the forward point.

Sooo, it’s not for deer hunting?

108 Jack Burton  May 3, 2014 2:33:58pm

re: #105 goddamnedfrank

Looks more like a Keltec KSG with a choke tube and short mag extensions. If it’s a rifle where’s the box mag? And that second tube under the barrel probably isn’t a gas cylinder or it’d be connected to the barrel at the forward point.

Either a KSG or UTS-15, looks more like UTS-15 to me but could be either… and both of those shotguns are over-engineered plastic crap that jam every other shot.

109 Dark_Falcon  May 3, 2014 2:34:02pm

re: #100 Jack Burton

It looks like one of those guys has a UTS-15, so he’s not a problem or intimidating.

That thing jams more than it fires, it’s a complete steaming pile.

Actually, I think you’re right about what that weapon is. The thing to know is that the current run of the UTS-15 has been significantly improved and is much more reliable than the shotgun initially was.

The UTS-15 is a pump-action shotgun firing from two 7-round tube magazines. Here are its stats on guns.com. Those made in the US are actually made in the Chicago area, being made in Des Plaines, IL.

110 Ryan King  May 3, 2014 2:34:25pm

re: #107 Stanley Sea

Sooo, it’s not for deer hunting?

I’m sooooo glad these guys are protecting me from tyranny. Makes me feel real safe and stuff.

111 Dark_Falcon  May 3, 2014 2:35:34pm

re: #105 goddamnedfrank

Looks more like a Keltec KSG with a choke tube and short mag extensions. If it’s a rifle where’s the box mag? And that second tube under the barrel probably isn’t a gas cylinder or it’d be connected to the barrel at the forward point.

You’re right, and I crossed-out the post accordingly. I didn’t delete it because Big Papa had already replied to it.

112 Jack Burton  May 3, 2014 2:35:59pm

re: #109 Dark_Falcon

Actually, I think you’re right about what that weapon is. The thing to know is that the current run of the UTS-15 has been significantly improved and is much more reliable than the shotgun initially was.

The UTS-15 is a pump-action shotgun firing from two 7-round tube magazines. Here are its stats on guns.com. Those made in the US are actually made in the Chicago area, being made in Des Plaines, IL.

Every review I’ve read or watched the thing was atrocious, but I haven’t heard anything about a new run that’s improved. All the reviews are from last year or earlier.

113 Stanley Sea  May 3, 2014 2:37:06pm

*I do understand how some of you guys enjoy the art/science of the gun & I do learn something from what you type.

It’s just when it’s in the hands of a yahoo like that on a public street, I just don’t get it.

114 Dark_Falcon  May 3, 2014 2:37:41pm

re: #107 Stanley Sea

Sooo, it’s not for deer hunting?

It can be, as it can accept magazine limiters. It fires 12-gauge rounds, and those are usable on deer. It might not be legal in all deer-hunting states, so YMMV.

115 Varek Raith  May 3, 2014 2:39:35pm

re: #94 Stanley Sea

What the hell is that cannon that dude is holding?
What the hell is its purpose?

The left?
Looks like a bullpup shotgun.

116 goddamnedfrank  May 3, 2014 2:39:46pm

re: #107 Stanley Sea

Sooo, it’s not for deer hunting?

Hypothetically you could, with slugs, but it would be ‘tarded. It’s a gun for ‘tards.

117 sattv4u2  May 3, 2014 2:40:44pm

re: #107 Stanley Sea

Sooo, it’s not for deer hunting?

I use my front bumper on those long quiet drives home! (can’t even count the nights i’ve seen several at various locations along my route home)
((not to mention the “family” that have taken up residence again in a clearing at the far end of my property))

118 Romantic Heretic  May 3, 2014 2:44:06pm

re: #76 Keep Texas Prisons Rapey!1!1!1!!!

I do not get wingnut humor. I may be showing my bias here, but to me, lefty’s are just more clever and funny!

[Embedded image]

That’s because wingnuts are fanatics, and fanatics get their sense of humour surgically removed. Humour is often about showing up the dichotomies and hypocrisies of life and mocking them. From them we learn to do better.

But fanatics know they are correct about everything, therefore there can be no hypocrisy and no dichotomy. So humour becomes an enemy to purity.

Anything opposed to purity cannot be allowed to exist.

Some fanatics realize that they are lacking something, or that humour is a weapon used against them frequently, and they try to use humour themselves. But like a blind man painting they can’t really do it.

119 Stanley Sea  May 3, 2014 2:45:25pm

California Chrome’s owners were called dumbasses for getting in the racing business.

Here are their silks:

hahaha

120 Varek Raith  May 3, 2014 2:47:14pm

re: #76 Keep Texas Prisons Rapey!1!1!1!!!

I do not get wingnut humor. I may be showing my bias here, but to me, lefty’s are just more clever and funny!

[Embedded image]

We don’t need your money, puny hooman.

121 Stanley Sea  May 3, 2014 2:48:48pm

re: #119 Stanley Sea

And their trainer is great.

122 Dark_Falcon  May 3, 2014 2:50:56pm

re: #112 Jack Burton

Every review I’ve read or watched the thing was atrocious, but I haven’t heard anything about a new run that’s improved. All the reviews are from last year or earlier.

Here’s what I read on the improved Gen 2 models:

UTS-15 Hunting

UTS-15

UTS-15

UTS-15
UTS-15: New Finishes, Extended Barrels

The last link has the most info, and it shows to good effect the ‘tactical breacher choke’ at the end of the barrel. This feature appears to be visible on the end of the UTS-15 carried by the Texas wingnut in the Twitter picture.

The choke really does have shooting applications, but its primary function in that group photo is likely as a penis enhancer.

123 Romantic Heretic  May 3, 2014 2:51:00pm

re: #120 Varek Raith

We don’t need your money, puny hooman.

They want nothing to do with us, actually.

124 Varek Raith  May 3, 2014 2:52:20pm

re: #123 Romantic Heretic

They want nothing to do with us, actually.

That’s not true, you guys make great stew…
Nevermind.

125 Eventual Carrion  May 3, 2014 2:55:18pm

I would love the insurance companies to say that the “companies” that want to not have birth control as part of their insurance will have to pay higher premiums since prenatal and delivery of children cost much more than birth control. And since they have blocked access to birth control their actuaries say the risk of all the women there getting pregnant is much higher so will hence probably cost more to the insurance company.

126 goddamnedfrank  May 3, 2014 2:58:20pm

Tard: Do you have any guns for ‘tards?

Salesman: Why yes we do. Let me show you our fine Kel Tec collection. It’s made by ‘tards for ‘tards, in Florida, where ‘tardation is king.

Tard: I like the 12 gauge pump gun what has the two magazines.

Salesman: Of course you do, what ‘tard wouldn’t. For $500 extra we can have that hydro-dipped with the Skulls pattern and we’ll even thrown in a complimentary pair of Truck Nutz.

Tard: How can I say no.

Salemsan: How indeed.

127 Eventual Carrion  May 3, 2014 3:03:20pm

re: #33 Rev_Arthur_Belling

In God/Allah/Vishnu/Cthulhu/FSM/Buddha/Quetzalcoatl/Jah/Zeus/Odin/Mother Earth/Etc. We Trust

We’re going to need bigger coins!

The nine billion names of God [PDF]

Arthur C. Clarke

128 calochortus  May 3, 2014 3:06:36pm

re: #127 Eventual Carrion

The nine billion names of God [PDF]

Arthur C. Clarke

One by one the stars were going out…

129 Dark_Falcon  May 3, 2014 3:12:23pm

But don’t doubt there are good reasons for owning a shotgun for home defense:

Police: Baytown teenager shoots two intruders, killing 1

BAYTOWN, TX (KTRK) — An attempted home invasion in Baytown ended with an 18-year-old killing one of the two suspects. Neighbors say this particular home had been targeted before.

The quiet Baytown neighborhood was woken up Wednesday morning by the sound of gunshots coming from one house.

“They probably were thinking they were coming into an empty house, which they weren’t. The grandson was there,” said neighbor Barbara Carr.

An 18-year-old man confronted two suspected burglars in his grandmother’s home with a shotgun. One of them, Charles Allen Dixon, 40, died at the hospital of his wounds. The second suspect, Michael McDaniel, 26, is in critical condition.

Baytown Police Detective Edgar Elizondo said, “Situations like this, we’re going to see this more often because now more Texans arm themselves and we have the right to protect our property.”

130 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  May 3, 2014 3:13:10pm

re: #129 Dark_Falcon

That may haunt him for the rest of his life.

131 Eventual Carrion  May 3, 2014 3:15:07pm

re: #44 freetoken

Gun fetishits feign surprise that anyone would consider them threatening if they show up en masse with their fetish at a public location:

Texas gun group’s protest sends restaurant employees fleeing for freezer as cops respond

I’m sure he will feel the same way when a group of black men show up with holstered pistols and a rifle strapped to their backs at the eating establishment.

132 Dark_Falcon  May 3, 2014 3:16:38pm

re: #130 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

That may haunt him for the rest of his life.

Possibly, but he protected his grandmother’s house from being robbed a second time and he put stop to a robbery crew headed by two crooks with long rap sheets.

I’m not saying that young man may not have trauma he needs to deal with, but he did the right thing and I hope he remembers that.

133 palomino  May 3, 2014 3:17:35pm

James Dobson is a firebrand extremist. As bad or worse than the late great Falwell and Pat Robertson.

Who next at the National Prayer Day? Bryan Fischer?

Dems should just boycott, but more importantly set up a counter-prayer breakfast, not run just by evangelicals, not meant only for Christians, and only used as a platform for inter-faith celebration and general support of social justice. Something that respects the separation of church and state, rather than trying to “tear down that wall, Mr. Gorbachev.”

At least one Dem congresswoman (Hahn from Calif.) got up, pointed at Dobson, said he was out of line, then walked out in protest. Makes me proud of her, just sorry she will burn in hell with all other non-Christian sinners. At least I’ll be there with her, and I think I’ll enjoy that a lot more than spending eternity with Dobson and his group of religious fanatics.

134 palomino  May 3, 2014 3:23:20pm

re: #129 Dark_Falcon

But don’t doubt there are good reasons for owning a shotgun for home defense:

Police: Baytown teenager shoots two intruders, killing 1

Who here thinks that shotguns kept at home and used for self-defense are a problem?

The crux of the debate is over the proliferation of guns outside the home, in public places like bars, schools, restaurants, theaters, where “MORE GUNS!” may not really be the solution, indeed counterproductive as people like Bundy’s militia buddies fancy themselves as an avenging John Wayne.

135 Lancelot Link  May 3, 2014 3:24:03pm

re: #131 Eventual Carrion

I’m sure he will feel the same way when a group of black men show up with holstered pistols and a rifle strapped to their backs at the eating establishment.

The black men, after being shot to death, will be described in the newspapers as “armed robbers”, and right-wing gun-fetishists will say of their killers, “they did the right thing”.

136 Varek Raith  May 3, 2014 3:27:45pm

Man Who Set A Trap To Kill 17-Year-Old Intruder Invokes Stand Your Ground-Like Defense

Seventeen-year-old Diren Dede lost his life Sunday, while in Missoula, Montana on a high school exchange program from Germany. He was shot dead at the home of Markus Kaarma, after Kaarma set a trap for intruders by intentionally leaving the garage open and placing a purse in clear view.

After motion sensors detected someone in the garage, Kaarma shot Dede. And while he has since been charged with first degree murder, he is already invoking a Stand Your Ground-like defense.

137 Lidane  May 3, 2014 3:31:09pm

re: #129 Dark_Falcon

I don’t care if someone has a gun in their home for self-defense. I also don’t give a damn if someone is a private gun collector, likes going to the range to shoot, or if they’re a hunter with a collection of rifles for various types of game. That’s all well and good.

My problem is when these same yahoos try to force their guns on everyone else in public. Nobody needs a gun in church, or in a restaurant, or at Starbucks. They sure as shit don’t need one in a bar or nightclub. If you need to openly pack heat to go to any of those places and you’re not a cop, I would suggest that you need to find new places to go.

138 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  May 3, 2014 3:31:19pm

re: #132 Dark_Falcon

Possibly, but he protected his grandmother’s house from being robbed a second time and he put stop to a robbery crew headed by two crooks with long rap sheets.

I’m not saying that young man may not have trauma he needs to deal with, but he did the right thing and I hope he remembers that.

He killed someone over property. Maybe two people.

Have you ever met a soldier or anyone else who’s taken another person’s life?

What were their rap sheets? I haven’t seen that in any report.

139 Dark_Falcon  May 3, 2014 3:55:20pm

re: #138 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

He killed someone over property. Maybe two people.

Have you ever met a soldier or anyone else who’s taken another person’s life?

What were their rap sheets? I haven’t seen that in any report.

From the article I linked to:

McDaniel was convicted of theft just two weeks ago, and has convictions for not having his driver’s license and drugs in the past. Dixon had convictions for disorderly conduct, DWI, burglary and trespass.

The article goes on to say that the two men who got shot may have committed another burglary earlier than morning.

140 Eventual Carrion  May 3, 2014 3:59:34pm

re: #128 calochortus

One by one the stars were going out…

I loved that story when I read it ooooh so many years ago.

141 palomino  May 3, 2014 4:02:16pm

re: #139 Dark_Falcon

From the article I linked to:

The article goes on to say that the two men who got shot may have committed another burglary earlier than morning.

So what? The kid who shot them didn’t know any of this at the time. I have no idea if he will suffer any psychological issues from this. We’re all different, some would, some wouldn’t.

But the knowledge that the guy had a history of nonviolent crime isn’t likely to make someone think, “Oh, well then, he deserved to die”.

142 Dark_Falcon  May 3, 2014 4:11:22pm

re: #141 palomino

So what? The kid who shot them didn’t know any of this at the time. I have no idea if he will suffer any psychological issues from this. We’re all different, some would, some wouldn’t.

But the knowledge that the guy had a history of nonviolent crime isn’t likely to make someone think, “Oh, well then, he deserved to die”.

I don’t mean to suggest that, I was pointing out that the men shot were not innocents. They’d committed crimes before and they broke into that house to rob it. Thus the young man who shot them was empowered to defend himself and his grandmother’s property against their unlawful attempt to take what did not belong to them.

143 Mattand  May 3, 2014 4:13:04pm

re: #64 Dark_Falcon

Well, I wouldn’t have done THAT, but if black men had pulled that stunt I would have been running out the back door and called 911 as soon as I was clear. With whites, Asians, or Latinos, I’d be worried but I don’t think I’d bolt.

And yes, the above means I admit that I’d react to the same overall situation differently depending on the race of the people involved. Think of it what you will, but I’d rather just be honest and admit how I feel.

Ummmmm, yeah.

144 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  May 3, 2014 4:14:31pm

re: #139 Dark_Falcon

From the article I linked to:

The article goes on to say that the two men who got shot may have committed another burglary earlier than morning.

So nonviolent crimes. And he killed them.

Unless he’s a sociopath, he’s going to feel fucked up by this.

145 palomino  May 3, 2014 4:24:12pm

re: #142 Dark_Falcon

I don’t mean to suggest that, I was pointing out that the men shot were not innocents. They’d committed crimes before and they broke into that house to rob it. Thus the young man who shot them was empowered to defend himself and his grandmother’s property against their unlawful attempt to take what did not belong to them.

I have no quibble with him using deadly force to protect his family from burglars, unless he knew they were unarmed and then killed them execution style for fun. But nothing like that is the case, right? So I’ve got no objection to what he did.

The only problem I have is the rationalizing of the shootings due to the fact that these weren’t good guys. Whether the had committed nonviolent, or even violent crimes, in the past is immaterial. A person shooting a burglar has no way of knowing the guy’s rap sheet. It doesn’t come into play at all in assessing the shooting. The young man wasn’t empowered to shoot them because of any previous crimes they’d committed. He was empowered solely due to the moment he found himself in.

146 Dark_Falcon  May 3, 2014 4:46:55pm

re: #145 palomino

I have no quibble with him using deadly force to protect his family from burglars, unless he knew they were unarmed and then killed them execution style for fun. But nothing like that is the case, right? So I’ve got no objection to what he did.

The only problem I have is the rationalizing of the shootings due to the fact that these weren’t good guys. Whether the had committed nonviolent, or even violent crimes, in the past is immaterial. A person shooting a burglar has no way of knowing the guy’s rap sheet. It doesn’t come into play at all in assessing the shooting. The young man wasn’t empowered to shoot them because of any previous crimes they’d committed. He was empowered solely due to the moment he found himself in.

Fine, then we are on the same page, because I was not trying to rationalize his actions in that way. I only brought up the criminal records of the burglars as a way of saying that the young man who shot them can hopefully be less effected knowing that the men he shot were crooks. They didn’t deserve to die, but they had done many wrongs before he crossed their path.

Finding out the men you shot were thugs may not make the physiological pain of having shot them any less, but it at least avoids the additional pain of having shot a decent person.

Heading upstairs. Thank you, BTW, for the good conversation on this one.

147 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  May 3, 2014 5:13:14pm

re: #146 Dark_Falcon

It’s not likely to console him much, really.

Again, have you talked to anyone who’s actually killed another person?


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