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The Worst Right Wing Tweet So Far About the Isla Vista Murders

Your incredibly awful right wing moment of the day
Wingnuts • Views: 39,721

Todd Kincannon, former executive director of the South Carolina Republican Party, comes through again with our most vile and contemptible right wing tweet of the day.

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340 comments

1 Justanotherhuman  May 25, 2014 6:48:04pm

That is horrendous.

2 Charles Johnson  May 25, 2014 6:50:54pm

It actually amazes me a little bit that a human being can think this way. I’ve seen enough of Kincannon to know this is really him. It’s not an act.

3 aagcobb  May 25, 2014 6:51:14pm

Well, you know, Todd had to blend in just the right amount of misogyny with his chest beating so that we understand just how big his dick is.

4 Amory Blaine  May 25, 2014 6:51:43pm

A disgraceful human being. “Cowering like a bitch” is a misogynist sentiment that has no place in discussion of this tragedy.

5 Dr. Matt  May 25, 2014 6:52:08pm

Todd is no “bitch” that’s for sure….he has baddest #tgdn tweets of all. A true hero!

6 Gus  May 25, 2014 6:54:40pm

7 RealityBasedSteve  May 25, 2014 6:55:55pm

And waiting for the South Carolina Republican party to disavow his statements and that he doesn’t speak for or represent their values. I’m not going to eat until they dis-own him. (I think I’m making a bad choice here)

I hadn’t seen his bilge lately, I was hoping that perhaps he had fallen down a well, and Lassie said “to hell with you, I’m going to the park with little Timmy”. No such luck I’m afraid.

RBS

8 Charles Johnson  May 25, 2014 6:56:25pm

If he were just a loser with a Twitter account nobody would care. But he’s a loser who used to be in a high state-level position in the South Carolina GOP.

/red flag

9 Charles Johnson  May 25, 2014 6:57:28pm

And nobody gets to a position like that without making a lot of deals with people who know exactly what kind of asshole he is.

10 Stanley Sea  May 25, 2014 6:58:58pm

re: #8 Charles Johnson

If he were just a loser with a Twitter account nobody would care. But he’s a loser who used to be in a high state-level position in the South Carolina GOP.

/red flag

South Carolina. Not a bastion of progress.

11 Justanotherhuman  May 25, 2014 6:59:00pm

re: #9 Charles Johnson

And nobody gets to a position like that without making a lot of deals with people who know exactly what kind of asshole he is.

Do any of them involve sucking?

12 Gus  May 25, 2014 7:00:36pm
13 ObserverArt  May 25, 2014 7:00:53pm

I remember there was a time when there was this practice of behavior called restraint. Sure there was fantasy, but there was enough identification it was just that, fantasy.

Now everyone plays it all out, their inner comic book character.

Kincannon is really no less freaky than the shooter. If you stacked all his words, or tweets into one big ass word document, you could call it a manifesto! I’m betting it would be scary in its whole too.

14 Amory Blaine  May 25, 2014 7:01:05pm
15 ObserverArt  May 25, 2014 7:01:13pm

re: #6 Gus

[Embedded image]

Twitchy!

: )

16 Stanley Sea  May 25, 2014 7:01:15pm

So sorry O/T but Cosmos has been preempted by NASCAR. Neil said he’d cover the aerodynamics of racing.

here we go

17 Gus  May 25, 2014 7:01:54pm

re: #14 Amory Blaine

[Embedded content]

18 Amory Blaine  May 25, 2014 7:03:15pm
19 Decatur Deb  May 25, 2014 7:03:43pm

re: #14 Amory Blaine

[Embedded content]

I hate it when someone makes Luntz look like a sentient human being.

20 ObserverArt  May 25, 2014 7:03:57pm

re: #7 RealityBasedSteve

And waiting for the South Carolina Republican party to disavow his statements and that he doesn’t speak for or represent their values. I’m not going to eat until they dis-own him. (I think I’m making a bad choice here)

I hadn’t seen his bilge lately, I was hoping that perhaps he had fallen down a well, and Lassie said “to hell with you, I’m going to the park with little Timmy”. No such luck I’m afraid.

RBS

I had to upding this comment just because it referenced an asshole getting fucked over by a television dog character from a long time ago. That just doesn’t happen everyday, and yet seems so apt for Kincannon.

21 RealityBasedSteve  May 25, 2014 7:04:17pm

re: #16 Stanley Sea

So sorry O/T but Cosmos has been preempted by NASCAR. Neil said he’d cover the aerodynamics of racing.

here we go
Spoilers increase the effective weight (traction) over a car’s rear wheels at high speed — without increasing the car’s mass.
[Embedded content]

Then why does my next door neighbor have a spoiler that looks like it came from a 747 mounted on his Honda Accord? You can’t answer that!

RBS

22 Charles Johnson  May 25, 2014 7:04:21pm

I think about the network of South Carolina Republicans who enable and support people like Todd Kincannon, and the similar networks in other Southern states that play on centuries-old bigotry, and feel a little sick.

23 Justanotherhuman  May 25, 2014 7:04:21pm

re: #17 Gus

[Embedded content]

Again, using a term of misogyny.

What a horrible, horrible person. And I’m far from being a Frank Luntz fan, too.

24 The War TARDIS  May 25, 2014 7:04:24pm

re: #17 Gus

Tom needs to rot in hell.

25 GlutenFreeJesus  May 25, 2014 7:04:33pm

re: #14 Amory Blaine

[Embedded content]

That document of “inalienable rights” may also mention something about a well-regulated militia.

26 Stanley Sea  May 25, 2014 7:04:42pm

Just follow, but its awesome

27 Decatur Deb  May 25, 2014 7:06:31pm

re: #22 Charles Johnson

I think about the network of South Carolina Republicans who enable and support people like Todd Kincannon, and the similar networks in other Southern states that play on centuries-old bigotry, and feel a little sick.

It’s South Carolina. If they’re not firing on a US facility, they’re not happy.

28 Gus  May 25, 2014 7:07:29pm
29 RealityBasedSteve  May 25, 2014 7:07:59pm

re: #20 ObserverArt

I had to upding this comment just because it referenced an asshole getting fucked over by a television dog character from a long time ago. That just doesn’t happen everyday, and yet seems so apt for Kincannon.

Well, thank you. Perhaps the most bizarre reason for an Up-ding in the history of the Internetz, but I’ll take any I can get. (and since LGF is the Bazaar of the Bizarre, not unexpected).

RBS

30 TedStriker  May 25, 2014 7:08:16pm

re: #28 Gus

[Embedded content]

I’ll bet that Kincannon thinks that they were “pussies” too…

31 Stanley Sea  May 25, 2014 7:08:38pm

re: #22 Charles Johnson

I think about the network of South Carolina Republicans who enable and support people like Todd Kincannon, and the similar networks in other Southern states that play on centuries-old bigotry, and feel a little sick.

It really is a sad state. My Dad lives there. My drive from the airport is a study in Southern poverty.

32 A Mom Anon  May 25, 2014 7:10:29pm

re: #26 Stanley Sea

The Husband is watching the race and following this Twitter feed on his I-pad. He’s a sciencey redneck, lol.

33 Charles Johnson  May 25, 2014 7:11:17pm

Kincannon is the idiot who can’t keep his mouth shut. But he’s not alone.

34 goddamnedfrank  May 25, 2014 7:11:49pm

Where does this surety that such victims are unarmed come from? How do we know that none of Rodger’s roomates or those sorority girls owned guns?

These were human beings killed with no warning. There’s no way to prepare for that. Nobody goes through their entire life never being shot at by strangers while at home and is then prepared to effectively defend themselves in the less than one in a million chance that some random psychopath bursts into their living room and points a gun at them.

To hold the victims of such an attack in contempt and to hold them in partial blame for their own demise is some fucked up Just World bullshit.

35 Gus  May 25, 2014 7:13:10pm

Mass shooters will walk up to a victim and shoot them in the head. Or center of mass. No questions. No talking. Just blam out of the blue. It’s not like some movie where someone gets mugged and the perp pulls out his gun and says, “stick ‘em up.” Mass shootings are not like robberies. Not like being mugged. Not like a Dirty Harry movie. They have the element of surprise. The victims are effectively ambushed. This isn’t a “gun rights” debate. This is a stupid debate. Has nothing to do with the legality of CCWs which I support — for normal people that is. But thinking people with a handgun and maybe two magazines is going to stop some nutcase on a mission and with possibly 40 magazines in a bag with him is just plain fantasy land.

36 ObserverArt  May 25, 2014 7:13:44pm

re: #29 RealityBasedSteve

Well, thank you. Perhaps the most bizarre reason for an Up-ding in the history of the Internetz, but I’ll take any I can get. (and since LGF is the Bazaar of the Bizarre, not unexpected).

RBS

I’m a fan of offbeat humor. I love a good vagary.

37 Gus  May 25, 2014 7:14:30pm

You’re facing off some guy, with 40 magazines, and that same guy doesn’t give a shit if he dies and will likely commit suicide soon after he’s done.

38 Justanotherhuman  May 25, 2014 7:14:45pm

re: #32 A Mom Anon

The Husband is watching the race and following this Twitter feed on his I-pad. He’s a sciencey redneck, lol.

Damn, NDT is such a science hottie. : )

Alas, a family man. Image: Neil+deGrasse+Tyson+Alice+Young+UMHBpj02gNpm.jpg

39 Decatur Deb  May 25, 2014 7:15:54pm

re: #29 RealityBasedSteve

Well, thank you. Perhaps the most bizarre reason for an Up-ding in the history of the Internetz, but I’ll take any I can get. (and since LGF is the Bazaar of the Bizarre, not unexpected).

RBS

When Tommy Rettig aged out of Lassie, he had Big Daddy Roth paint a t-shirt for him, Collie on a Spit.

:corrected

40 Cardio (formerly JRCMYP)  May 25, 2014 7:16:36pm

See, this guy Kincannon is just one step away from the Isla Vista murderer’s mindset. That’s what scares me. The guy that went on a rampage is not remarkably different in his core belief system than a former public servant.

Yeah. Great.

41 calochortus  May 25, 2014 7:18:42pm

It’s just plain sad when someone needs to use a tragedy as an opportunity to be cruel to strangers.

42 Stanley Sea  May 25, 2014 7:19:34pm

re: #32 A Mom Anon

The Husband is watching the race and following this Twitter feed on his I-pad. He’s a sciencey redneck, lol.

LOVE IT

43 Amory Blaine  May 25, 2014 7:22:26pm

re: #21 RealityBasedSteve

44 Gus  May 25, 2014 7:23:23pm
45 ObserverArt  May 25, 2014 7:25:16pm

re: #39 Decatur Deb

When Tommy Rettig aged out of Lassie, he had Dean Moon paint a t-shirt for him, Collie on a Spit.

Well okay then.

Grinning.

46 Stanley Sea  May 25, 2014 7:26:15pm
47 Gus  May 25, 2014 7:28:41pm
48 ObserverArt  May 25, 2014 7:28:55pm

re: #40 Cardio (formerly JRCMYP)

See, this guy Kincannon is just one step away from the Isla Vista murderer’s mindset. That’s what scares me. The guy that went on a rampage is not remarkably different in his core belief system than a former public servant.

Yeah. Great.

Same line of thinking I had in #13. They share traits in they are in fantasy land and both answer their fantasy with guns.

One just hasn’t acted, yet.

49 calochortus  May 25, 2014 7:29:32pm

re: #47 Gus

Gah.

50 Stanley Sea  May 25, 2014 7:31:23pm

re: #47 Gus

[Embedded content]

Kincannon needs to go down. Spread it far and wide.

51 Amory Blaine  May 25, 2014 7:32:05pm

That is low down dirty mean.

52 Gus  May 25, 2014 7:32:59pm
53 Charles Johnson  May 25, 2014 7:33:20pm

Kincannon’s Twitter timeline is like a parody of an insane right wing nutjob.

54 Stanley Sea  May 25, 2014 7:33:26pm

hate hate hate hate hate $$$ hate hate hate hate

And we have to live with it?

55 Gus  May 25, 2014 7:36:43pm

56 Amory Blaine  May 25, 2014 7:38:07pm

He sure subscribes to the idea that he’s a poor victim in this. In between all the bullying I mean.

57 Stanley Sea  May 25, 2014 7:40:49pm

Traumatized by the twitter spoilers on Mad Men. I signed off. Geeze, this is when it sucks to be west coast.

58 Gus  May 25, 2014 7:43:07pm
59 calochortus  May 25, 2014 7:46:49pm

re: #58 Gus

I wonder if he has an example of a conservative who was saved during a mass shooting because he had a gun with him? Perhaps any example of an armed civilian ‘saving the day’ in this situation? Off duty police and the like don’t count.

60 ObserverArt  May 25, 2014 7:48:21pm

re: #58 Gus

Liberals die from mass shooters because they don’t carry guns. Then other liberals use that to try to take my guns from me. Fuck all of them

Don’t know about the rest of you, but he is pegging my asshole gauge.

And by the way, where does this ranting put him on legal and responsible gun owner scale?

61 Gus  May 25, 2014 7:50:16pm

re: #60 ObserverArt

Don’t know about the rest of you, but he is pegging my asshole gauge.

And by the way, where does this ranting put him on legal and responsible gun owner scale?

I dunno. Typically with Todd it’s all bluster and trolling. Sure it’s legal. Responsible? On a social level probably not.

62 Gus  May 25, 2014 7:50:52pm

He’s freaking out. Taking screen shots of people Tweeting him. :D

64 Gus  May 25, 2014 7:56:31pm

Patriot!

65 Jay in Oregon  May 25, 2014 7:58:04pm

These fuckers are so tone-deaf with it comes to their “good guy with a gun” delusions.

Rodgers was one of these so-called “good guys.”

He bought his guns legitimately, stored them properly, and followed all of the rules—right up to the point where he decided to make all bitches everywhere pay because they wouldn’t conform to his fantasies.

I’m sorry if some dumbfuck in Texas can’t figure out why if he walks into a Chipotle with an AR-15, people might be inclined to call the police. If you are brandishing a deadly weapon in public, you are a threat to everyone around you.

66 Gus  May 25, 2014 7:58:51pm
67 Gus  May 25, 2014 7:59:37pm

68 Shiplord Kirel  May 25, 2014 8:01:08pm

I wonder if some ultra-rich Democrat is paying Kincannon to make Republicans look bad, not that they aren’t doing a good enough job without him.

69 Kragar  May 25, 2014 8:01:13pm

Someone going out and about their business without a gun equals a “bitch” waiting to get shot to Todd.

Todd can go eat a bag of dicks

70 Gus  May 25, 2014 8:03:34pm
71 Lidane  May 25, 2014 8:03:51pm

re: #34 goddamnedfrank

If only the girls had been armed! Gun-free zones are killing our kids!

If those girls had just let him down easy by giving him a fake number or saying no, they’d be alive right now!

It wasn’t about the girls! He was just crazy! He was on the autism spectrum!

If girls would just play along and stop being such over-sensitive feminist bitches this wouldn’t happen.

People on all sides are failing the victims of this tragedy.

72 Amory Blaine  May 25, 2014 8:03:56pm

re: #69 Kragar

73 Gus  May 25, 2014 8:04:05pm
74 gwangung  May 25, 2014 8:04:06pm

re: #66 Gus

[Embedded content]

Should we tell them the park is 430 feet deep, not 90 feet deep?

75 Gus  May 25, 2014 8:05:03pm

re: #70 Gus

[Embedded content]

This is not an occasion for cheap jokes or mindless political sniping, Palin, Dryden and Kincannon. If what you offer is what conservatism is, you can have it; I’ll stand with Christ — and, I am sure, with Wurmbrand, Calciu, and Oprisan. As hard as it is to contemplate, I hope I would have the courage to stand with the doctors at the Christian-run hospital in Kabul last week who operated on a Muslim gunman injured in an attack in which he killed three of their colleagues.

Think, people, of the torture victim you and I call Lord.

Repent.

76 Mentis Fugit  May 25, 2014 8:05:21pm

They’ll never circumcise Todd Kincannon: there’s no end to the prick.

77 Gus  May 25, 2014 8:10:17pm
78 Gus  May 25, 2014 8:12:33pm
79 Gus  May 25, 2014 8:12:43pm
80 Interesting Times  May 25, 2014 8:12:58pm

re: #73 Gus

Has Kincannon been changing his Twitter usernames? Because in that screenshot it’s @ToddKincannon, but for this latest bilge, it’s @Todd__Kincannon (not that I don’t believe he’d say something this vile; I just want to be sure it’s the real account - I haven’t been on twitter much lately and am thus out of the loop)

81 Gus  May 25, 2014 8:12:59pm

Double post. Derp.

82 Gus  May 25, 2014 8:13:49pm

re: #80 Interesting Times

Has Kincannon been changing his Twitter usernames? Because in that screenshot it’s @ToddKincannon, but for this latest bilge, it’s @Todd__Kincannon (not that I don’t believe he’d say something this vile; I just want to be sure it’s the real account - I haven’t been on twitter much lately and am thus out of the loop)

That’s just a graphic from HuffPo Live.

83 Gus  May 25, 2014 8:14:36pm

re: #80 Interesting Times

Has Kincannon been changing his Twitter usernames? Because in that screenshot it’s @ToddKincannon, but for this latest bilge, it’s @Todd__Kincannon (not that I don’t believe he’d say something this vile; I just want to be sure it’s the real account - I haven’t been on twitter much lately and am thus out of the loop)

Also, he was suspended from Twitter. Think he opened a new account. Yes, that was him.

84 Interesting Times  May 25, 2014 8:16:02pm

re: #83 Gus

Also, he was suspended from Twitter. Think he opened a new account. Yes, that was him.

Yes, I see exactly that when I click the @ToddKincannon link. I could’ve sworn at one time he had one of those “verified” blue checkmark things next to his real account (probably due to all the parodies), but I suppose when his account was suspended, the verified status got revoked as well…

85 calochortus  May 25, 2014 8:16:07pm

re: #83 Gus

Also, he was suspended from Twitter. Think he opened a new account. Yes, that was him.

Maybe he could be re-suspended?

86 Gus  May 25, 2014 8:16:12pm
87 blueraven  May 25, 2014 8:19:35pm

All people who consider themselves to be Christian should be deeply offended by Kincannon. All Conservatives should as well.

There is nothing Conservative or Christian about him. He is a vile, radical, Right Wing provocateur.

88 Shiplord Kirel  May 25, 2014 8:21:30pm

Kincannon is a false flag! He is secretly in the pay of Soros and Saul Alinsky!
Wait. Alinsky is dead? Hah! That’s what you think!

89 EPR-radar  May 25, 2014 8:21:46pm

re: #87 blueraven

All people who consider themselves to be Christian should be deeply offended by Kincannon. All Conservatives should as well.

There is nothing Conservative or Christian about him. He is a vile, radical, Right Wing provocateur.

Everyone should be offended by Kincannon. Conservatives, GOPers and Christians are the ones that need to ostracize him from their respective communities.

90 palomino  May 25, 2014 8:25:01pm

re: #17 Gus

[Embedded content]

Why would Frank Luntz, who has at least a shred of decency, even engage in a Twitter feud with a sick barbaric fucker like Killcannon?

I guess Luntz wants to marginalize him as not being representative of the Republican Party. Good luck to Luntz getting that message across on Twitter. #tcot will fellate Killcannon while chastising Luntz with all sorts of venom.

91 SteveMcGazi  May 25, 2014 8:32:58pm

re: #81 Gus

Double post. Derp.

That’s one of the few (if any) I’ve ever seen on this site.

92 b_sharp  May 25, 2014 8:36:12pm

re: #91 SteveMcGazi

That’s one of the few (if any) I’ve ever seen on this site.

Gus was just being emphatic.

93 freetoken  May 25, 2014 8:39:47pm

re: #70 Gus

Oh yes, Rod Dreher, the smarter conservative.

Well, he’s smart to know to not idolize a losing proposition, and Sarah Palin is about as good of a definition of “a losing proposition” around political circles.

94 sauceruney  May 25, 2014 8:52:32pm

re: #85 calochortus

Maybe he could be re-suspended?

I reported him as annoying. There’s hope, I suppose.

95 Alyosha  May 25, 2014 8:59:08pm

This kind of reactionary spleen is the sort of thing that used to get people ostracised from their political party of choice; what the fuck happened?

Luntz is a soulless hack, the embodiment of everything that is wrong with the system and yet he is human enough to call Kincannon on his venomous ejacs.

If the GOP has any heart left it’ll turn the motherless bastard into a pariah.

96 Dark_Falcon  May 25, 2014 9:01:32pm

re: #90 palomino

Why would Frank Luntz, who has at least a shred of decency, even engage in a Twitter feud with a sick barbaric fucker like Killcannon?

I guess Luntz wants to marginalize him as not being representative of the Republican Party. Good luck to Luntz getting that message across on Twitter. #tcot will fellate Killcannon while chastising Luntz with all sorts of venom.

Here’s the start of it, with Luntz referencing the same Tweet that Charles posted:

My own hunch is that Luntz wanted to use Killcannon’s Tweet as an object lesson in how not to communicate while at the same point making clear “I’m not with Stupid”.

97 Rightwingconspirator  May 25, 2014 9:05:08pm

New Page -A collaboration with Curious Lurker on Depth Of Field. For new (ish) photographers or new owners of more advanced cameras.

98 Stanley Sea  May 25, 2014 9:07:40pm

re: #96 Dark_Falcon

Here’s the start of it, with Luntz referencing the same Tweet that Charles posted:

[Embedded content]

My own hunch is that Luntz wanted to use Killcannon’s Tweet as an object lesson in how not to communicate while at the same point making clear “I’m not with Stupid”.

Try as they might..still on the side of #gunfail

99 Interesting Times  May 25, 2014 9:09:46pm

re: #98 Stanley Sea

Luntz-to-plain-English translator: “You idiot, stop saying what our base really thinks!!!11!1”

100 palomino  May 25, 2014 9:10:37pm

re: #96 Dark_Falcon

Here’s the start of it, with Luntz referencing the same Tweet that Charles posted:

[Embedded content]

My own hunch is that Luntz wanted to use Killcannon’s Tweet as an object lesson in how not to communicate while at the same point making clear “I’m not with Stupid”.

Yes, but what kind of luck do you think Luntz will have with that message on Twitter? Because he’s not trying to convince liberals and moderates that the right’s rhetoric on guns sucks. He’s trying to convince other conservatives, and on Twitter that means dealing with the hard right voices that dominate there.

101 Dark_Falcon  May 25, 2014 9:16:38pm

re: #100 palomino

Yes, but what kind of luck do you think Luntz will have with that message on Twitter? Because he’s not trying to convince liberals and moderates that the right’s rhetoric on guns sucks. He’s trying to convince other conservatives, and on Twitter that means dealing with the hard right voices that dominate there.

Even if it doesn’t work on Twitter, he’s still on the record opposing Killcannon’s stupidity. That will cut ice with the people in the know, who understand how foolish Killcannon is being.

And it may just be as simple as Luntz being offended so much that he decided pushback was needed.

102 RealityBasedSteve  May 25, 2014 9:23:54pm

Well Lizards. I’m outta here. Just finished watching a great documentary on the Muscle Street Shoals Recording Studio, it’s history and the players. Lots of great music. Highly recommended.

Don’t eat any fake flies….

RBS

103 Lidane  May 25, 2014 9:24:50pm
104 Kid A  May 25, 2014 9:33:16pm
105 palomino  May 25, 2014 9:37:40pm

re: #101 Dark_Falcon

Even if it doesn’t work on Twitter, he’s still on the record opposing Killcannon’s stupidity. That will cut ice with the people in the know, who understand how foolish Killcannon is being.

And it may just be as simple as Luntz being offended so much that he decided pushback was needed.

Now I’ve got you calling him Killcannon too. Seems like a perfect name for the guy, requiring only a slight change in spelling.

I’m not a Republican, but I don’t think most establishment Repubs want anything to do with scum like Killcannon. Didn’t he get suspended by the SC GOP for something else stupid and offensive he said?

It’s the far right extremists and tea partiers who dominate Twitter who will explode at Luntz because they love Killcannon’s hyperbole. But the mainstream GOP loves Luntz, and isn’t gonna be too big on a guy who refers to mass murder victims as bitches and calls Luntz a pussy.

106 BongCrodny  May 25, 2014 9:41:57pm

Stole this from Sullivan’s place because I know not everybody stops by there and I thought it should be shared:

107 BadExampleMan  May 25, 2014 9:59:33pm

re: #60 ObserverArt

Don’t know about the rest of you, but he is pegging my asshole gauge.

Dude, either that’s way too much information, or you really want to rephrase.

In any case, Kincannon strikes me as more of a power bottom, the really really whiny type.

108 BongCrodny  May 25, 2014 10:19:31pm

I want to share a conversation I took part in at Facebook. The VA scandal is an important story, and I’m not apologizing for the VA or interested in covering up its perceived faults — if what allegedly happened in Phoenix turns out to have happened, maybe the central players should even face jail time — but I really want to stress that so far, this whole thing seems to be primarily the work of the right wing noise machine.

I don’t know how to cut and paste from Facebook, so I’m just going to post the quotes (with names redacted).

I want it known that I am not cherry picking here — the quotes below represent the entirety of the comments responding to the Fox story.

I’m not intimating that the VA is perfect; far from it. I am concerned that we’ve been hearing only one side of the story.

The comments are from a FB story on a page dedicated to the ship I served on in the USS Navy over 30 years ago. A member of that group posted a story from Fox News, “Staff at embattled VA pocketed bonuses, hefty salaries.” Her comment to the initial post was:

Shocking? Sadly, no.
Yet ABSOLUTELY DISGUSTING!

Here are the follow-up comments from group members to that story.

Oh wow……UNBELIEVABLE!!!!! I wonder if it’s happening here in Chicago as well.

I am glad to say that I receive exceptional treatment at Clarksburg VA Hospital here in WV. My husband also.

Why are government workers pulling down bonuses? For what? Doing there job?

I receive great care at the Huntington V.A here in W.V…only bad thing is you have to wait a lot of times for certain care…

i walked into the ER at my VA and my buddy says, “He’s having trouble breathing” They were on me like flies on shit! had 6 pple tending me. Have gone back many times for different reasons and have always had the same level of attention and care. Obviously there are some bad if not pathetic facilities out there,but we shouldnt judge them all based on those!

The Memphis VA is tremendous. I have been so well cared for there as have alot of my homeless vets.

Glad I’m at Palo Alto.

It’s exactly what I was asking you to check out. *They’re lucky congress is looking into it so you don’t have to go down there and clean house.

I am so happy that others are also receiving great care…

Fortunately I have not used the VA health system. My brother tried all the Chicago facilities for help with agent orange and PTSD problems. He finally went to Wisconsin where he got great care. He had a heart valve replaced and 1/2 lung removed and was finally awarded 100% disability. He died a year later at 59… All I can say is based on my exposure to the VA health system is that in northern Illinois, it stinks.

I suggest that the system be shut down. Only use Military Hospitals when veterans return. After that everyone go to regular hospitals where the patients aren’t treated like cattle.

San Antonio TX VA seems pretty good for me!

I have been treated well at the Hampton, Virginia VAMC.

Back in the 90’s, Rick (my late husband) was seen weekly, on an outpatient basis at the Mpls VA. We couldn’t have asked for a better doctor & staff. In 1995 when be became terminal, they trained me to be his caregiver at home (changing out his IV bags, etc.). At the begining of 96, he became terminal and spent the last month of his life there, inpatient… He was once again, in the best care possible. I was quite young at the time (26) and everyone there made sure I was taken care of too. The staff kept me closely under their wings The only frustrating part to his final days, was that particular VA was a ‘learning hospital’, so we dealt with new doctors (interns) a couple times a week, but nonetheless, I wish every vet now a days could get the care that Rick had, up until the day he died!

Togus, ME was AOK with me!

I’ve only been a patient at one VA hospital and a staffer at one other one, so I can’t speak for the rest of the system — but from my own little corner of the world, it really does seem as though the people riding this “scandal” have ulterior motives.

109 goddamnedfrank  May 25, 2014 10:30:20pm

re: #108 BongCrodny

I want to share a conversation I took part in at Facebook. The VA scandal is an important story, and I’m not apologizing for the VA or interested in covering up its perceived faults — if what allegedly happened in Phoenix turns out to have happened, maybe the central players should even face jail time — but I really want to stress that so far, this whole thing seems to be primarily the work of the right wing noise machine.

I don’t know how to cut and paste from Facebook, so I’m just going to post the quotes (with names redacted).

I want it known that I am not cherry picking here — the quotes below represent the entirety of the comments responding to the Fox story.

I’m not intimating that the VA is perfect; far from it. I am concerned that we’ve been hearing only one side of the story.

The comments are from a FB story on a page dedicated to the ship I served on in the USS Navy over 30 years ago. A member of that group posted a story from Fox News, “Staff at embattled VA pocketed bonuses, hefty salaries.” Her comment to the initial post was:

Here are the follow-up comments from group members to that story.

I’ve only been a patient at one VA hospital and a staffer at one other one, so I can’t speak for the rest of the system — but from my own little corner of the world, it really does seem as though the people riding this “scandal” have ulterior motives.

The VA hospital “scandal” is predicated on one giant lie, that the VA system is treating its patients worse than private hospitals and therefore should be privatized.

Former military service members using Department of Veterans Affairs hospitals are just as happy with their care as patients using private medical clinics, according to a leading customer-satisfaction survey.

The American Customer Satisfaction Index for 2013 shows that the VA health network, which serves more than 8 million veterans, achieved marks equal to or better than those in the private sector.

110 freetoken  May 25, 2014 11:13:04pm
111 wheat-dogghazi  May 25, 2014 11:28:43pm

This xkcd made me laugh:

Image: xkcd_phone.png

“Accelerometer detects when phone is in free fall and makes it scream.”

And from the mouseover text: “Avert eyes while replacing battery. Under certain circumstances, wireless transmitter may control God.”

112 Lidane  May 25, 2014 11:29:31pm

The only question is why it took so damn long:

113 team_fukit  May 26, 2014 12:19:01am

re: #108 BongCrodny

Seems to me like the scandal with the VA has some reason to cause some concern, but if you look at the history of the VA, conservatives did most everything they could legally to make it inefficient and ineffective when the G.I. Bill was getting ground up in the sausage machine during the mid-1940s. A great book I read that has a chapter about the legislative process of the VA’s formation and the first VA hospital care scandal is Kathleen Frydl’s _The G.I. Bill_ (Cambridge University Press, 2009).

I think a good portion of the hubbub about the VA is just a right-wing end-around to bitch about “government health care” - eventually getting them back to repealing/”saving us all from” the Affordable Care Act

114 Kragar  May 26, 2014 12:21:14am
115 freetoken  May 26, 2014 1:15:40am
116 Dr Lizardo  May 26, 2014 1:41:29am

re: #16 Stanley Sea

So sorry O/T but Cosmos has been preempted by NASCAR. Neil said he’d cover the aerodynamics of racing.

here we go

[Embedded content]

Heh. When I was about 6, I remember my dad explaining the principle of spoilers on racing cars pretty much the same way, though without the scientific terminology.

Not bad for a WWII-era high school graduate.

117 Kragar  May 26, 2014 2:29:06am

Doubling down, now apparently only “trash” loses family to gun violence

118 wheat-dogghazi  May 26, 2014 2:59:42am

re: #117 Kragar

Doubling down, now apparently only “trash” loses family to gun violence

I’m not the violent sort, but there’s a part of me that wishes someone would serve Kincannon a big dish of whupass.

119 CuriousLurker  May 26, 2014 3:31:08am
120 Justanotherhuman  May 26, 2014 3:56:16am

re: #119 CuriousLurker

Heads-up: Hater hatchling in the Pages.

The Jewish Independent was formed in 2014, to fill the void for the Modern Orthodox Jews who find themselves without a news media outlet that reflects their views.

thejewishindependent.com

Sounds Neo-Zionist.

Here’s the guy who started it and his explanation on his crowd-funding page.

jewcer.com

“We are Halachic, we are Zionist, we are Hip – get used to it.”

Oh, cheeeez.

121 CuriousLurker  May 26, 2014 4:18:34am

re: #120 Justanotherhuman

Did you read the article? It’s a bunch of wingnutty bullshit conspiracy theory crap. I haven’t looked through the Jewish Independent’s entire site, but the author who posted the Page appears to be the same one who authored the article in question. If you look at his LGF profile you’ll see his Twitter profile shows that that he also writes for the Jewish Press which is far right, like Arutz Sheva. Or just try googling his name, Tzvi Ben Gedalyahu, and see what kind of stuff comes up.

See Alouette’s rundown on Israeli/Jewish news sources here.

122 Justanotherhuman  May 26, 2014 4:22:30am

re: #121 CuriousLurker

This is from the Jewcer page I linked above.

Yori Yanover:

In March, 2014, I was abruptly let go from my job as Senior Internet Editor for jewishpress.com - for stating an obvious truth about Haredim and IDF military service, a truth most Jews, religious and otherwise, agree with, but which the JPress Haredi advertisers wanted to suppress. My head rolled (ouch), but the outcome of that sad day for Jewish journalism is the birth of a new, honest, open-minded, inclusive and irrepressible new religious Jewish online newspaper: THE JEWISH INDEPENDENT.

123 wheat-dogghazi  May 26, 2014 4:27:54am

re: #122 Justanotherhuman

Sounds like an Israeli version of The Intercept, with even more invective and a more regular publishing schedule.

124 Rocky-in-Connecticut  May 26, 2014 4:34:14am

Me Tarzan. Me Big-em Gorilla-Man.
You… puny ordinary human.

what a completely narcissistic tool this guy is. I’m laughing my a** off at him.

125 Justanotherhuman  May 26, 2014 4:44:31am

re: #121 CuriousLurker

I think we’re talking about 2 different people here. I was just trying to get a handle on the principals over there. Wonder if ben Gedalyahu still works for the Jewish Press? He seems to be writing an awful lot over there at the Jewish Independent.

126 CuriousLurker  May 26, 2014 4:54:57am

re: #122 Justanotherhuman

I didn’t see the Jewcer link until just now, when I refreshed the page because you mentioned it, so I’m guessing you edited your original comment.

Again, did you read the article in question? I’m not talking about Yanover I’m talking about the author, Tzvi Ben Gedalyahu, and his bullshit article, regardless of wherever the Jewish Independent lands on the political spectrum.

IIRC, Yori Yanover or someone promoting his articles got banned last week for posting the same kind of crap. Just because he got fired by a right-wing Orthodox newspaper doesn’t mean he’s not a wingnut (he got fired for a an extreme headline: “50 Thousand Haredim March So Only Other Jews Die in War.”)

BTW, Yanover seems to think the terrorist “Kahane’s views have moved from the extreme right to the center in 20 years.” (Google cache link to an article from last year). The center. Kahane. Let that sink in for a minute.

Sorry, but if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck….

127 CuriousLurker  May 26, 2014 4:56:40am

re: #125 Justanotherhuman

I think we’re talking about 2 different people here. I was just trying to get a handle on the principals over there. Wonder if ben Gedalyahu still works for the Jewish Press? He seems to be writing an awful lot over there at the Jewish Independent.

Yes, it appears that we were talking about two different people, but they both stink, as my #126 indicates.

128 Dark_Falcon  May 26, 2014 4:58:24am

re: #117 Kragar

Doubling down, now apparently only “trash” loses family to gun violence

[Embedded content]

Says the man who’s clearly never been in a firefight. Todd Kincannon shows no regard for Mr. Murphy and the ways he can mess things up. He’s both a fool and a tool.

129 William Barnett-Lewis  May 26, 2014 5:00:59am

re: #106 BongCrodny

Stole this from Sullivan’s place because I know not everybody stops by there and I thought it should be shared:

[Embedded image]

Funny! Though strictly speaking it was a blended family as he had 2 dads, a mother & (according to the bible) a number of step-siblings ;)

130 Justanotherhuman  May 26, 2014 5:03:49am

re: #126 CuriousLurker

I think we’re in agreement. : )

And I think Yanover is definitely a Neo-Zionist. A Neo-Zionist is described as having “right-wing, nationalistic and religious ideology”.

131 Dark_Falcon  May 26, 2014 5:04:59am

re: #130 Justanotherhuman

I think we’re in agreement. : )

And I think Yanover is definitely a Neo-Zionist. A Neo-Zionist is described as having “right-wing, nationalistic and religious ideology”.

And is that in your view inherently problematic?

132 Justanotherhuman  May 26, 2014 5:05:36am

re: #131 Dark_Falcon

And is that in your view inherently problematic?

They’re extremists, so yes.

133 CuriousLurker  May 26, 2014 5:12:18am

re: #130 Justanotherhuman

I think we’re in agreement. : )

And I think Yanover is definitely a Neo-Zionist. A Neo-Zionist is described as having “right-wing, nationalistic and religious ideology”.

I gave up trying to figure out all the various flavors of Zionism a long time ago—Israeli politics & its nuances is way too complicated for me, so I just put people in the categories I’m familiar with.

Hell, when I started down this path of “Oh, I’m gonna learn more about The Juice,” even trying to get a simple answer on what plain old Zionism by itself meant almost drove me nuts.

134 Lidane  May 26, 2014 5:13:33am

Country star goes overseas to sing for the troops for Memorial Day, spawns derp.

Brad Paisley tweeted this and also posted it on FB:

Most of the Twitter replies are cool. But some idiots at FB just can’t help themselves.

135 Dark_Falcon  May 26, 2014 5:14:24am

re: #132 Justanotherhuman

They’re extremists, so yes.

What makes them extremists? I’m not familiar with the term ‘neo-Zionist’ so I’m asking to try to understand who uses it and what sort of traits and beliefs they think they are describing.

136 Dark_Falcon  May 26, 2014 5:16:35am

re: #134 Lidane

Obama Derangement Syndrome: Ruining comment threads since 2008.

137 CuriousLurker  May 26, 2014 5:17:52am

re: #135 Dark_Falcon

What makes them extremists? I’m not familiar with the term ‘neo-Zionist’ so I’m asking to try to understand who uses it and what sort of traits and beliefs they think they are describing.

Good luck with that.

138 Justanotherhuman  May 26, 2014 5:19:03am

re: #132 Justanotherhuman

They’re extremists, so yes.

They also appear to be anti-American, as well. They want all American Jews to move to Israel.

kumah.org

“Now only two great camps remain in the Jewish world: American Jewry and Israeli Jewry. Divided by thousands of miles of ocean, our charge is to unite.

(snip)

“For starters, North American Jewry must move physically and spiritually back to Israel. The return of American Jewry to Israel will strengthen the economy, weaken our enemies, and create a society which is a “light unto the nations”.

If there are between 5.4M and 8.3M Jews in the US, it could effectively double Israel’s population. But where would they fit? And why isn’t there a call for European Jews, or others in various countries around the world, to also move to Israel?

These people are off the wall.

139 CuriousLurker  May 26, 2014 5:20:38am

Time for me to get to work. Later, lizards.

140 Bulworth  May 26, 2014 5:22:37am

No idea how my son will die, but I know it won’t be cowering like a bitch at UC Santa Barbara. Any son of mine would have been shooting back

He sounds nice….

141 Dark_Falcon  May 26, 2014 5:25:24am

re: #138 Justanotherhuman

They also appear to be anti-American, as well. They want all American Jews to move to Israel.

kumah.org

“Now only two great camps remain in the Jewish world: American Jewry and Israeli Jewry. Divided by thousands of miles of ocean, our charge is to unite.

(snip)

“For starters, North American Jewry must move physically and spiritually back to Israel. The return of American Jewry to Israel will strengthen the economy, weaken our enemies, and create a society which is a “light unto the nations”.

If there are between 5.4M and 8.3M Jews in the US, it could effectively double Israel’s population. But where would they fit? And why isn’t there a call for European Jews, or others in various countries around the world, to also move to Israel?

These people are off the wall.

One might remind that writer of the importance of American Jews in keeping the United States an ally of Israel. America would take the kind of mass emigration he proposes fairly badly, given how important the idea of ‘America as a place people want to get into’ (not leave) is for Americans. His/her plan, if enacted, would likely result in a major increase in anti-Israel sentiment in the USA.

142 Lidane  May 26, 2014 5:28:25am

Here’s the full news story:

Bond set at $250,000 for president of Cathedral Bible College with Myrtle Beach campus

Agents with Homeland Security Investigations filed a criminal complaint against Miller this week saying they have probable cause to charge him with forced labor, a felony that carries a maximum prison sentence of 20 years for each count. Investigators say Miller forced foreign students to work at the campus and his personal residence for as little as $25 per week. Miller threatened to cancel the students’ visas if they complained or didn’t comply with his demands, according to an affidavit filed this week.

143 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  May 26, 2014 5:28:46am

re: #141 Dark_Falcon

One might remind that writer of the importance of American Jews in keeping the United States an ally of Israel. America would take the kind of mass emigration he proposes fairly badly, given how important the idea of ‘America as a place people want to get into’ (not leave) is for Americans. His/her plan, if enacted, would likely result in a major increase in anti-Israel sentiment in the USA.

This kind of analysis isn’t necessary. Jews aren’t going to up and move from the US to Israel in mass numbers. Why would they?

144 Dark_Falcon  May 26, 2014 5:30:10am

re: #143 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

This kind of analysis isn’t necessary. Jews aren’t going to up and move from the US to Israel in mass numbers. Why would they?

I don’t think they would, Obdi. I was just punching holes in a nutty proposal.

145 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  May 26, 2014 5:36:58am

re: #144 Dark_Falcon

I don’t think they would, Obdi. I was just punching holes in a nutty proposal.

I’m a little weirded out by the concept that US Jews help to keep the US allied with Israel. The US support of Israel isn’t predicated on US Jews lobbying and pushing the US into that alliance. In addition, a lot of US Jews don’t simply support Israel; lots of US jews (like lots of Israeli Jews) have severe problems with Israel’s government and policies.

146 wheat-dogghazi  May 26, 2014 5:37:01am

re: #142 Lidane

Sadly, there are many Bible colleges and diploma mills (which are not mutually exclusive) that lure foreign students to these shores to be used as cheap labor. Even the so-called “work-study” programs are really about employing willing foreign kids for low wages to give them a chance to experience the great USA.

147 wrenchwench  May 26, 2014 5:39:15am

re: #142 Lidane

[Embedded content]

Here’s the full news story:

Bond set at $250,000 for president of Cathedral Bible College with Myrtle Beach campus

What a charlatan, only that’s too nice a word.

Miller has had a past run-in with law enforcement. In 2006, the Horry County Police Department charged Miller with lewdness and prostitution after Miller exposed himself to an undercover police officer in a bath house at Myrtle Beach State Park, according to a police report. Miller entered into a pre-trial intervention program and the charge ultimately was expunged.

I couldn’t help noticing he was charged with prostitution in Horry County.

148 wheat-dogghazi  May 26, 2014 5:42:41am

re: #142 Lidane

Interesting tidbit from that story you linked to:

Miller has had a past run-in with law enforcement. In 2006, the Horry County Police Department charged Miller with lewdness and prostitution after Miller exposed himself to an undercover police officer in a bath house at Myrtle Beach State Park, according to a police report. Miller entered into a pre-trial intervention program and the charge ultimately was expunged.

Read more here: thestate.com

I wonder if his problem with keeping his pants zipped extended to his employment of his foreign student workers.

A real piece of work, this Miller is.

149 Dark_Falcon  May 26, 2014 5:43:50am

re: #147 wrenchwench

What a charlatan, only that’s too nice a word.

I couldn’t help noticing he was charged with prostitution in Horry County.

Sounds like he is aggressively religious as a way of staying in the closet. He might have been happier had someone set him up in a place that is more gay-friendly.

150 William Barnett-Lewis  May 26, 2014 5:44:14am

BBT. Off to 8 hours on the grill for a whole $8.15 (.75 for holiday differential! Whee!). Remember the Vets who gave their last full measure of devotion at some point today, OK? That’s what this day is for. November 11 is for those who are not still on that last patrol. Thanks.

151 wheat-dogghazi  May 26, 2014 5:46:33am

re: #149 Dark_Falcon

Sounds like he is aggressively religious as a way of staying in the closet. He might have been happier had someone set him up in a place that is more gay-friendly.

I doubt it would have helped. He’s probably tortured by self-hatred for wanting to do the very things he believes are abominable.

152 wrenchwench  May 26, 2014 5:47:15am

re: #150 William Barnett-Lewis

BBT. Off to 8 hours on the grill for a whole $8.15 (.75 for holiday differential! Whee!). Remember the Vets who gave their last full measure of devotion at some point today, OK? That’s what this day is for. November 11 is for those who are not still on that last patrol. Thanks.

My thoughts are with your feet!

153 Lidane  May 26, 2014 5:48:36am

re: #150 William Barnett-Lewis

Related:

154 Varek Raith  May 26, 2014 5:48:58am

Good morning.

155 Flounder  May 26, 2014 5:49:36am

re: #152 wrenchwench

Dammit I missed him. I have the similar problem with my arches, I think. Heel bone spurs. The best way to fix it are heel cups (not arch supports), or at least they worked for me.

156 wrenchwench  May 26, 2014 5:56:05am

re: #155 Flounder

Dammit I missed him. I have the similar problem with my arches, I think. Heel bone spurs. The best way to fix it are heel cups (not arch supports), or at least they worked for me.

Heel be back.

/

157 Targetpractice  May 26, 2014 6:00:54am

Listening to wingnuts pump themselves up by saying that the success of the UKIP means that “conservatism” is gaining favor even in Europe. But everything I’m hearing says that far-right groups winning at the polls yesterday owe most of their success to protest voters than an ideological shift amongst the populace.

158 wrenchwench  May 26, 2014 6:01:26am

We believe that the Bible is the authority for what we teach and how we live, so our training program emphasizes the development of the whole person. We practice a lifestyle that is aimed at helping students understand and apply the implications of Scripture in daily life.

Our standards are not viewed as measurements for all Christians in all cultures, but they do represent a thoughtful application of Scripture and godly wisdom to our specific social and cultural situation. This lifestyle represents a continuing quest to bring our corporate life into conformity to the mind of Christ and to prepare the student to serve Him as Lord.

Personal godliness is a high priority for every student. A time is set aside each day for personal fellowship with God. Students associate themselves with the local church for fellowship and service. The use of tobacco and alcoholic beverages is not permitted on school property or at school events. Narcotics, hallucinogenic drugs, and marijuana are not permitted at any time.

We hold these standards in an atmosphere which encourages examination of their Biblical foundations and free interaction with faculty. We look upon obedience as an important part of the learning experience at Cathedral Bible College and as an encouragement to each student to develop his own Biblical and Christ-pleasing lifestyle.

It is expected that a student’s house be in order while he is being trained for ministry. If there are teenagers in the home, they are encouraged to sign the Christian Youth Pledge. A copy will be mailed to any applicant upon request.

A list of rules will be furnished to each student during Registration or the Orientation session. A copy will be mailed to any applicant upon request.

link

Says right there at the top, they are ‘producing servants’.

159 BongCrodny  May 26, 2014 6:07:11am

re: #136 Dark_Falcon

Obama Derangement Syndrome: Ruining comment threads since 2008.

Will you feel the same way after you read Andrew McCarthy’s new book?

160 wheat-dogghazi  May 26, 2014 6:07:24am

re: #158 wrenchwench

Says right there at the top, they are ‘producing servants’.

(Some) Truth in advertising.

I suspect this college pulls in students from the countries where Evangelical missionaries have made in-roads, like South Korea and several African nations. Many of this kids are already used to obeying their elders, and would not be likely to question being used as cheap labor, even if they were aware of the laws preventing it.

161 wrenchwench  May 26, 2014 6:10:39am

re: #160 wheat-dogghazi

(Some) Truth in advertising.

I suspect this college pulls in students from the countries where Evangelical missionaries have made in-roads, like South Korea and several African nations. Many of this kids are already used to obeying their elders, and would not be likely to question being used as cheap labor, even if they were aware of the laws preventing it.

Taking advantage of the most vulnerable. I hope he gets jail time, with required labor.

162 wrenchwench  May 26, 2014 6:11:12am
163 Justanotherhuman  May 26, 2014 6:13:16am

re: #158 wrenchwench

I don’t know what that weird crap at the beginning is…

Youtube Video

164 wheat-dogghazi  May 26, 2014 6:13:40am

re: #161 wrenchwench

Taking advantage of the most vulnerable. I hope he gets jail time, with required labor.

I guess the old routine of making big rocks into little rocks is long gone. Maybe some other kind of manual labor would be suitable. This man needs to be humbled somehow.

165 BongCrodny  May 26, 2014 6:16:04am

re: #162 wrenchwench

[Embedded content]

I love her dad’s inscription.

166 PhillyPretzel  May 26, 2014 6:19:13am

Before I forget I want to wish all of my fellow Lizards a Happy Memorial day.

167 Dr Lizardo  May 26, 2014 6:23:15am

re: #157 Targetpractice

Listening to wingnuts pump themselves up by saying that the success of the UKIP means that “conservatism” is gaining favor even in Europe. But everything I’m hearing says that far-right groups winning at the polls yesterday owe most of their success to protest voters than an ideological shift amongst the populace.

The success of various right/far-right parties in the EU elections is more a reaction to ongoing economic uncertainty in Europe than anything else, and even there, the far-right’s “success” wasn’t universal. Sinn Féin did quite well in Ireland, and in Sweden, parties of the left performed very well also.

Like you noted, more of a protest vote than a broad-based ideological shift.

168 A Mom Anon  May 26, 2014 6:24:07am

re: #164 wheat-dogghazi

I seem to remember reading somewhere that small scale manufacturing is done in some prisons, prisoners usually make way less than minimum wage. Since he’s not a “violent offender”, at least that we know of, he’d probably end up doing manual labor like picking up garbage or cleaning trash out of creeks and lakes, things like that. Let’s hope it’s in Summer and it’s hot, miserable and involves lots of biting flies.

169 wheat-dogghazi  May 26, 2014 6:26:58am

re: #168 A Mom Anon

I seem to remember reading somewhere that small scale manufacturing is done in some prisons, prisoners usually make way less than minimum wage. Since he’s not a “violent offender”, at least that we know of, he’d probably end up doing manual labor like picking up garbage or cleaning trash out of creeks and lakes, things like that. Let’s hope it’s in Summer and it’s hot, miserable and involves lots of biting flies.

Summer in South Carolina — goes without saying.

170 Targetpractice  May 26, 2014 6:27:47am

re: #167 Dr Lizardo

The success of various right/far-right parties in the EU elections is more a reaction to ongoing economic uncertainty in Europe than anything else, and even there, the far-right’s “success” wasn’t universal. Sinn Féin did quite well in Ireland, and in Sweden, parties of the left performed very well also.

Like you noted, more of a protest vote than a broad-based ideological shift.

The success of the protest vote seems to be mostly focused in those nations which feel that they’re getting the short end of the EU stick. We may very well be seeing some of the early cracks in the supposed Euro Zone solidarity, something that was taken for granted before the Great Recession.

171 Dark_Falcon  May 26, 2014 6:38:04am

re: #159 BongCrodny

Will you feel the same way after you read Andrew McCarthy’s new book?

I have no plans to read a book that makes a case for Barack Obama’s impeachment because the “strong public will to remove the president from office” that McCarthy sees (correctly) as needed to impeach will never exist with President Obama.

That said, I’s still answer ‘yes’ to your question even if I’d read that book. As my comment indicated, the deranged reaction to Barack Obama began before he even took office and it has repeatedly proven itself indifferent to reality.

Notes: I linked the amazon.com page of McCarthy’s book for purposes of clarity, not approval. Also, please note that my handle is ‘Dark_Falcon’, not ‘Generic_Wingnut’.

172 A Mom Anon  May 26, 2014 6:40:42am

re: #171 Dark_Falcon

So the public will isn’t there, would you then agree Obama hasn’t done anything to be impeached for?

173 Dark_Falcon  May 26, 2014 6:47:12am

re: #172 A Mom Anon

So the public will isn’t there, would you then agree Obama hasn’t done anything to be impeached for?

To the best of my knowledge, I would agree he has not.

174 wheat-dogghazi  May 26, 2014 6:47:16am

McCarthy is making mountains out of molehills, and pandering to a base that salivates at the mere mention of impeaching Obama. Shit sells, apparently.

175 darthstar  May 26, 2014 6:48:44am

Mornin’ all.

176 darthstar  May 26, 2014 6:49:03am

re: #171 Dark_Falcon

You’re not going to read it, but you put an amazon link to it to help sell it?

177 Alyosha  May 26, 2014 6:49:36am

Hey Lizards,

Have a great Memorial Day, whether you choose to observe the day solemnly or with levity. Cheers to your boys who helped us resist the aggression of Imperial Japan when the Motherland was unable and cheers to the gals who kept them supplied and effective.
There were other shared theatres, of course, but that’s the one we’ll remember with gratitude.

Ta

178 BongCrodny  May 26, 2014 6:50:02am

re: #171 Dark_Falcon

I have no plans to read a book that makes a case for Barack Obama’s impeachment because the “strong public will to remove the president from office” that McCarthy sees (correctly) as needed to impeach will never exist with President Obama.

That said, I’s still answer ‘yes’ to your question even if I’d read that book. As my comment indicated, the deranged reaction to Barack Obama began before he even took office and it has repeatedly proven itself indifferent to reality.

Notes: I linked the amazon.com page of McCarthy’s book for purposes of clarity, not approval. Also, please note that my handle is ‘Dark_Falcon’, not ‘Generic_Wingnut’.

I appreciate the honest answer.

And just so you know, the question wasn’t designed solely “snark bait” (although I’ll confess to there being at least a touch of it in there) — but you’ve pimped a lot of stuff from NR over the years (although I don’t recall whether McCarthy was among those), and now one of their star writers comes out with a nonsense diatribe — I was genuinely curious.

179 darthstar  May 26, 2014 6:50:08am

re: #173 Dark_Falcon

To the best of my knowledge, I would agree he has not.

But you’re still weighing the “evidence” as it comes in. Keeping an open mind. Got it.

180 darthstar  May 26, 2014 6:52:02am

re: #176 darthstar

You’re not going to read it, but you put an amazon link to it to help sell it?

Okay…saw the ‘clarity’ excuse…you do know most of the people here know how to google, right?

181 Dark_Falcon  May 26, 2014 6:57:28am

re: #176 darthstar

You’re not going to read it, but you put an amazon link to it to help sell it?

I quoted briefly from an author interview posted on the page, and when I do that I provide a link to the page I quoted from. I also put up the link so that others reading this thread would be able to see what Bong Crodny and I were talking about.

As I stated, the link was posted for purposes of clarification.

182 Ryan King  May 26, 2014 6:57:41am
183 Dark_Falcon  May 26, 2014 7:00:26am

re: #179 darthstar

But you’re still weighing the “evidence” as it comes in. Keeping an open mind. Got it.

I very seriously doubt Obama has committed or will commit an impeachable offense. But I don’t know every thing he has done or will do, so a qualifier is appropriate.

184 Justanotherhuman  May 26, 2014 7:01:37am

On this day, we have to reflect about the changing faces of war in the world, the technology which now drives it, and the medical expertise which saves lives, but which also has increased the rates of PTSD (which used to be called “shell shock”) as a generic term for those suffering from the horrors of war. PTSD isn’t confined to the soldier in the field in too many of those wars.

I was born during a period of war and I will die during a period of war and so will my descendants. I have no doubt about that.

185 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  May 26, 2014 7:05:14am

I posted earlier about how the GOP really lost control when they refused to disown or even distance themselves from crazy idiots uttering provocative nonsense for fear of being shouted down by some goombah in a tri-corned hat holding a Gadsen flag at a town hall meeting or TP rally.

In doing so, they started an attention-grabbing race to the bottom, and I see that they are still on their way down, down down…

186 Alyosha  May 26, 2014 7:08:54am

re: #185 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

I posted earlier about how the GOP really lost control when they refused to disown or even distance themselves from crazy idiots uttering provocative nonsense for fear of being shouted down by some goombah in a tri-corned hat holding a Gadsen flag at a town hall meeting or TP rally.

In doing so, they started an attention-grabbing race to the bottom, and I see that they are still on their way down, down down…

At what point will they finally be scrabbling, broken-nailed and bloody-fingered at the bedrock of decency?
They just seem to find stronger tools to dig still deeper.

187 Flounder  May 26, 2014 7:12:47am

Time to hang some laundry, I hope everyone enjoys the holiday!

188 darthstar  May 26, 2014 7:14:52am

re: #186 Alyosha

At what point will they finally be scrabbling, broken-nailed and bloody-fingered at the bedrock of decency?
They just seem to find stronger tools to dig still deeper.

Their party leaders know that, come 2017, they can shake all of this off with a simple, “That was awkward.” and America, waking up after a heavy night of drinking and hoping the neighbors don’t see who they’ve been sleeping with (they have, they just don’t care), will pretend it never happened and the GOP will be a serious party again.

Or they won’t and we’ll spiral downward for another decade before things change.

189 Dark_Falcon  May 26, 2014 7:14:56am

To be fair, Todd Kincannon had been removed as executive director of the South Carolina GOP a while before he unleashed this latest blast of filth. And as can be seen upthread, he did get some GOP pushback.

190 darthstar  May 26, 2014 7:16:21am
191 sattv4u2  May 26, 2014 7:19:31am

Thanking ALL veterans today, but especially the one that raised me. He quit school at 17 years old and joined the Navy to serve during WW 2. A radioman in the South Pacific. To this day he can still decipher Morse code. he told me if he could and they would let him, he sign back up today !!!! Fortunate that he is still with us, having just celebrated his 90th birthday last month

If my puter skills were better I could have posted a picture of him at that early age. I scanned it at home, e-mailed it to myself at work, but when I went to attach it it states it’s not in the right format {sigh}

192 Dark_Falcon  May 26, 2014 7:20:25am

re: #190 darthstar

[Embedded content]

193 kirkspencer  May 26, 2014 7:20:33am

re: #168 A Mom Anon

I seem to remember reading somewhere that small scale manufacturing is done in some prisons, prisoners usually make way less than minimum wage. Since he’s not a “violent offender”, at least that we know of, he’d probably end up doing manual labor like picking up garbage or cleaning trash out of creeks and lakes, things like that. Let’s hope it’s in Summer and it’s hot, miserable and involves lots of biting flies.

Since I used to be in the business, a little education. First, it varies by state, and the federal system is different yet again. IN GENERAL, however…

Labor is optional. That said, the majority choose to work for two reasons. First, they get paid. And other than basic necessities, if they want it someone other than the state has to pay for it. How much they get paid depends on the type of labor they’re doing and various state laws but courts have ruled labor is optional and the state has to pay both for the labor and basic necessities. I leave the question of what counts as a ‘basic necessity’ undefined as some states have pushed that line far enough there are lawsuits pending. (You want to launder your jumpsuit and underwear? That’ll be …)

The second reason inmates choose labor is absolute simple boredom. If you’re not working then in most facilities you’re locked in your cell, or at most have access to a common dayroom. Same four walls for hours a day, days a year. For a few hours a day you get to go somewhere else to eat, and there’s some opportunity to do recreation or go to the library, but for the most part that’s the same time as those who’ve chosen to work … or get an education. There’s been a lot of cutting back on that, but earning a GED is still available. Mostly.

Remember that notionally the punishment of prison is its isolation from the real world, and that the primary purpose is redirection in hopes of rehabilitation. They can’t do it right because we’ve got a lot of revenge wrapped up in the idea, but that’s the goal anyway. So punitive labor - labor just for labor’s sake, and especially labor that is de facto slavery - is supposed to be forbidden. And mostly it is.

194 Justanotherhuman  May 26, 2014 7:24:12am

Headline is a bit misleading, since many of the women pictured are not “thin” by today’s standards. Most are mature, middled aged or older, and resemble a great number of ordinary women out here. Still, what war on women, since men’s appearance is seldom a drawback?

Do Thin, Feminine Women Really Have A Better Chance Of Winning Elections?

thinkprogress.org

“Femininity”?

“Because masculinity is stereotypically associated with leadership in the U.S., conservatives’ preference for traditional gender roles and low tolerance for uncertainty may require women’s leadership aspirations to be tempered by strong associations with femininity, particularly in their appearance,” stated Eric Hehman, a lead author of the study.”

195 Flying Squirrel Girl  May 26, 2014 7:24:52am

re: #187 Flounder

Hanging laundry is always the equivalent of a rain dance for me. If I hang it, there will be rain. Same rule seems to apply to washing my car.

196 sattv4u2  May 26, 2014 7:26:44am

re: #195 Flying Squirrel Girl

Hanging laundry is always the equivalent of a rain dance for me. If I hang it, there will be rain. Same rule seems to apply to washing my car.

Why not just hang the laundry dirty, squirt a lil detergent on it, and let nature do it for you!!!!

197 Justanotherhuman  May 26, 2014 7:27:55am

re: #196 sattv4u2

Why not just hang the laundry dirty, squirt a lil detergent on it, and let nature do it for you!!!!

That really is a “guy” solution. {sigh}

Sort of like bringing the water hose inside and washing the floor. : )

198 sattv4u2  May 26, 2014 7:28:31am

re: #197 Justanotherhuman

That really is a “guy” solution. {sigh}

Sort of like bringing the water hose POWER WASHER inside and washing the floor. : )

ftfy

199 darthstar  May 26, 2014 7:28:31am

re: #195 Flying Squirrel Girl

Hanging laundry is always the equivalent of a rain dance for me. If I hang it, there will be rain. Same rule seems to apply to washing my car.

Expect a call from Rick Perry to come do some laundry in Texas to help him with his drought problem. His Texas day of prayer didn’t work so well last time.

200 darthstar  May 26, 2014 7:29:07am

re: #197 Justanotherhuman

That really is a “guy” solution. {sigh}

Sort of like bringing the water hose inside and washing the floor. : )

Nothing gets the stains out of carpet faster.

201 kirkspencer  May 26, 2014 7:29:14am

re: #196 sattv4u2

Why not just hang the laundry dirty, squirt a lil detergent on it, and let nature do it for you!!!!

Even assuming you meant to include ///, Why not just squirt a little detergent on the car and let nature do it for you?

202 NJDhockeyfan  May 26, 2014 7:29:31am

Good morning lizards and may you all have a great Memorial Day. There are a lot of veterans and current military in my family and we don’t just cook on burgers on Memorial Day.

203 kirkspencer  May 26, 2014 7:30:13am

re: #201 kirkspencer

Oh, yes, and I forgot about cleaning the golf clubs. Lean them against the fence, too, and let the rain wash and the sun dry.

204 Alyosha  May 26, 2014 7:30:27am

re: #188 darthstar

So, arguably, the GOP is still considered a viable political party in spite of its heinous vision and ignorant policies, even if they are increasingly forced to rely on local and state legislatures to enact their horrid ideas.

I don’t know if I want to see a Republican Party emerge from this anarchic race to the bottom if it simply means a return to, say, the party of Bush II. Viability in a national race and the opportunity to nominate Supreme Court Justices again after the hell they’ve wrought in the last few years is deeply demoralising.

And yet, I don’t feel that it’s healthy for the Democratic Party to provide both liberal and rational conservative politicians because the GOP is unable to produce the latter. But I don’t have enough of an understanding of how American politics tends to evolve to be able to say how, when the dust from the mid-terms has cleared, the Republicans will adapt their message.

I want the Democrats to remain in charge but I don’t want the opposition to act like a malignant tumour either.

205 sattv4u2  May 26, 2014 7:32:56am

re: #201 kirkspencer

Even assuming you meant to include ///, Why not just squirt a little detergent on the car and let nature do it for you?

ummm,, i’ve done that!!

206 Flying Squirrel Girl  May 26, 2014 7:33:42am

re: #199 darthstar

Yeah because why govern when you can just pray for the help you need? Maybe he just needs to rent a bigger stadium.

207 Ryan King  May 26, 2014 7:33:52am
208 A Mom Anon  May 26, 2014 7:34:06am

re: #193 kirkspencer

I stand corrected. Look, I’m not for revenge, but I am for justice. He needs to be in jail, and he does need to be doing something with his time besides sitting in a cell or spending all his time indoors doing mindless crap. At least if he was doing some sort of labor he’d be productive. And if he got bit by a few flies in the process, well, there’s worse things. He should be a little uncomfortable, maybe it’ll trigger some empathy for other human beings, which seems to be lacking. Rehabilitation is sadly lacking in the prison system, he honestly needs some freaking therapy of some sort in addition to jail time for what he’s done to these young people.

209 NJDhockeyfan  May 26, 2014 7:36:44am
210 Alyosha  May 26, 2014 7:37:02am

re: #204 Alyosha

Understanding that my desires in the case are immaterial. That ultimately it’s up to US citizens to decide.

211 Backwoods_Sleuth  May 26, 2014 7:42:42am

re: #203 kirkspencer

Oh, yes, and I forgot about cleaning the golf clubs. Lean them against the fence, too, and let the rain wash and the sun dry.

Better to let them soak for a while in the water hazard.
/

212 darthstar  May 26, 2014 7:44:11am

re: #204 Alyosha

So, arguably, the GOP is still considered a viable political party in spite of its heinous vision and ignorant policies, even if they are increasingly forced to rely on local and state legislatures to enact their horrid ideas.

I don’t know if I want to see a Republican Party emerge from this anarchic race to the bottom if it simply means a return to, say, the party of Bush II. Viability in a national race and the opportunity to nominate Supreme Court Justices again after the hell they’ve wrought in the last few years is deeply demoralising.

And yet, I don’t feel that it’s healthy for the Democratic Party to provide both liberal and rational conservative politicians because the GOP is unable to produce the latter. But I don’t have enough of an understanding of how American politics tends to evolve to be able to say how, when the dust from the mid-terms has cleared, the Republicans will adapt their message.

I want the Democrats to remain in charge but I don’t want the opposition to act like a malignant tumour either.

It’s a mess, I agree. We’re moving into an awkward period as a country. To disrupt a democracy as fragile as ours, you need only take one party and get them off balance. Because primaries are so poorly followed by voters, it takes a small portion of the electorate to swing a party like they did the GOP.

Okay…got a dog asking to go to the beach…this will have to wait.

213 sattv4u2  May 26, 2014 7:50:30am

re: #211 Backwoods_Sleuth

Better to let them soak for a while in the water hazard.
/

Well,, at least they’ll have company there! many a tee shot end up in the drink

214 iceweasel  May 26, 2014 8:01:04am

Apologies if this has already been posted— i just got here:

Fox News ‘expert’ suggests ‘homosexual impulses’ triggered Calif. mass shooting

Typical. Even a misogynistic mass murder is all about the menz.

Seriously, it’s worth reading for the idiocy and the mansplaining:

By late Saturday night, Ludwig was speculating to Fox News that Rodger’s gay feelings had turned him into a mass murderer.

“When I was first listening to him, I was like, ‘Oh, he’s angry with women for rejecting him,’” Ludwig recalled. “And then I started to have a different idea: Is this somebody who is trying to fight against his homosexual impulses?’”

“Was he angry with women because they were taking away men from him?” she continued. “But this is a kid who couldn’t connect, and felt enraged, and wanted to obliterate anyone that made him feel like a nothing.”

Ludwig later declared that Roger’s could have been “angry at the men for not choosing him.”

“This was just a kid that was angry in general. He probably felt rejected, he couldn’t connect, he couldn’t feel loved, he couldn’t feel successful. Maybe he couldn’t even feel like a real man.”

215 Dark_Falcon  May 26, 2014 8:03:16am

re: #214 iceweasel

It had in fact already been posted here, and given the smackdown it so richly earned. But it is good to see you, Ice.

216 iceweasel  May 26, 2014 8:04:38am

re: #215 Dark_Falcon

It had in fact already been posted here, and given the smackdown it so richly earned. But it is good to see you, Ice.

Oh hey DF, great to see you— how are you?

Yeah, i’m not surprised that its already been posted, you have to be fast around here, haha!

217 kirkspencer  May 26, 2014 8:08:39am

re: #208 A Mom Anon

I stand corrected. Look, I’m not for revenge, but I am for justice. He needs to be in jail, and he does need to be doing something with his time besides sitting in a cell or spending all his time indoors doing mindless crap. At least if he was doing some sort of labor he’d be productive. And if he got bit by a few flies in the process, well, there’s worse things. He should be a little uncomfortable, maybe it’ll trigger some empathy for other human beings, which seems to be lacking. Rehabilitation is sadly lacking in the prison system, he honestly needs some freaking therapy of some sort in addition to jail time for what he’s done to these young people.

Yeah, sorry. Some people go nuts when it’s guns under discussion. Me, one of my rant buttons is the US criminal justice system.

218 Dark_Falcon  May 26, 2014 8:10:44am

re: #216 iceweasel

Oh hey DF, great to see you— how are you?

Yeah, i’m not surprised that its already been posted, you have to be fast around here, haha!

I’m decent. I have a better job now than I did at the same time last year, and I’m working hard to make money at it and keep it.

219 sattv4u2  May 26, 2014 8:14:21am

re: #218 Dark_Falcon

I’m decent

finally put pants on, didjya!?!

220 iceweasel  May 26, 2014 8:14:41am

re: #218 Dark_Falcon

I’m decent. I have a better job now than I did at the same time last year, and I’m working hard to make money at it and keep it.

Oh that’s great—glad to hear it. Congrats!

Jimmah had an interview last week— hopefully he’ll get that job. So glad to hear you have a better one! Good luck with it.

221 CuriousLurker  May 26, 2014 8:15:32am

Drive-by Comment: It doesn’t feel quite right to wish everyone a “Happy” Memorial Day, so I guess I’ll just wish you all a thoughtful one.

Like many of you, there were numerous men in my family (including my dad) who served in the various branches of our armed forces during wartime. Thankfully, we didn’t lose any of them, so this day isn’t really about them.

In memory of those who were lost, I’ll simply post my favorite Memorial Day poem and say this: Rest in peace, to all of you who gave your lives so that the rest of us might wake each day and live ours in peace. May we prove ourselves worthy of your sacrifice.

Getty Image

In Flanders Fields

In Flanders fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses, row on row,
That mark our place; and in the sky
The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.

We are the dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved, and were loved, and now we lie
In Flanders fields.

Take up our quarrel with the foe:
To you from failing hands, we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.

John McCrae

222 Backwoods_Sleuth  May 26, 2014 8:16:49am
223 Dark_Falcon  May 26, 2014 8:16:55am

re: #219 sattv4u2

I’m decent

finally put pants on, didjya!?!

SMACK!

224 Ding-an-sich Wannabe  May 26, 2014 8:18:27am

re: #17 Gus

[Embedded content]

Calm down, guys, you’re both right!

225 Ding-an-sich Wannabe  May 26, 2014 8:20:24am

re: #58 Gus

[Embedded content]

Regardless of what one thinks of gun control, Todd Kincannon should not own any guns.

226 Dark_Falcon  May 26, 2014 8:20:43am

re: #224 Sergey Romanov

Calm down, guys, you’re both right!

On this one you really should lay off of Frank Luntz. He was fighting the good fight against a bigoted lunatic.

227 Rev_Arthur_Belling  May 26, 2014 8:23:04am

re: #226 Dark_Falcon

On this one you really should lay off of Frank Luntz. He was fighting the good fight against a bigoted lunatic.

I am not sure what to make of Frank Luntz these days. He seems to have had some sort of awakening to the dark forces within the Republican Party, but his personal politics are still odious, and his abuse of the English language in service of reprehensible political causes is unforgivable to me.

228 Ding-an-sich Wannabe  May 26, 2014 8:23:30am

re: #226 Dark_Falcon

On this one you really should lay off of Frank Luntz. He was fighting the good fight against a bigoted lunatic.

Not really. He framed it as a “losing the debate” thing aka framing, i.e. what he does for living, not as “shut your gob, you immoral sob”.

229 Ryan King  May 26, 2014 8:26:53am

re: #227 Rev_Arthur_Belling

I am not sure what to make of Frank Luntz these days. He seems to have had some sort of awakening to the dark forces within the Republican Party, but his personal politics are still odious, and his abuse of the English language in service of reprehensible political causes is unforgivable to me.

He may well have a long path to redemption, but I’d be delighted if he at least tried.

230 Ding-an-sich Wannabe  May 26, 2014 8:29:53am

re: #227 Rev_Arthur_Belling

I am not sure what to make of Frank Luntz these days. He seems to have had some sort of awakening to the dark forces within the Republican Party

TBH I haven’t been paying any attention, but are you sure this is the case, and that it’s not simply Luntz staying the same ole’ asshole, but looking more moderate in comparison with the new, more unhinged breed of conservatives?

231 Dark_Falcon  May 26, 2014 8:31:20am

re: #228 Sergey Romanov

Not really. He framed it as a “losing the debate” thing aka framing, i.e. what he does for living, not as “shut your gob, you immoral sob”.

Like most people, he frames things in terms of what he knows and what he does at his job. Framing Kincannon’s misdeeds strategically at first is also a way of forestalling cries of “RINO!” that sometimes arise when political strategists have to tell wingnuts something they don’t want to hear.

232 Rev_Arthur_Belling  May 26, 2014 8:31:43am

re: #229 Ryan King

He may well have a long path to redemption, but I’d be delighted if he at least tried.

Yes, I would be too. Last I read, however, his beef with the state of the GOP was more along the lines of “Ur doing it wrong” rather than “Our policy prescriptions are fucked up.” He seemed genuinely disillusioned, but not ready to admit that it was partly his fault that the GOP has become the wretched excuse for a political party that it has become.

233 Ding-an-sich Wannabe  May 26, 2014 8:34:38am

re: #231 Dark_Falcon

And that’s why I can’t commend him for what he did, because it looked simply as a spat about political tactics, calculations, what brings victories and what brings losses. Luntz is indeed a pro at framing, and he did choose his words carefully. It’s the choice I can’t agree with.

234 Killgore Trout  May 26, 2014 8:35:03am

re: #230 Sergey Romanov

TBH I haven’t been paying any attention, but are you sure this is the case, and that it’s not simply Luntz staying the same ole’ asshole, but looking more moderate in comparison with the new, more unhinged breed of conservatives?

He’s full of shit but not a stupid person. He knows what sells, what turns off voters so he’s still mostly interested in not alienating voters he needs to win elections.

235 Rev_Arthur_Belling  May 26, 2014 8:35:12am

re: #230 Sergey Romanov

TBH I haven’t been paying any attention, but are you sure this is the case, and that it’s not simply Luntz staying the same ole’ asshole, but looking more moderate in comparison with the new, more unhinged breed of conservatives?

That could be. Like I said, when I read about his disillusionment, I was at first hopeful he’d had an epiphany, but I left the article (I wish I could remember where/when I read about this) confused and believing that he was still all in on “conservative” policies, but more sad about the lack of engagement in serious debate/compromise on the part of the GOP politicians. Very odd.

236 Ding-an-sich Wannabe  May 26, 2014 8:36:54am

re: #234 Killgore Trout

I never said he was stupid, only asshole.

237 Rev_Arthur_Belling  May 26, 2014 8:38:25am

re: #236 Sergey Romanov

I never said he was stupid, only asshole.

One of the few Republican operatives I can say the answer isn’t “both” when asked “stupid/evil?”

238 Ding-an-sich Wannabe  May 26, 2014 8:39:36am

re: #237 Rev_Arthur_Belling

One of the few Republican operatives I can say the answer isn’t “both” when asked “stupid/evil?”

Lee Atwater?

239 Ryan King  May 26, 2014 8:40:02am

re: #232 Rev_Arthur_Belling

Yes, I would be too. Last I read, however, his beef with the state of the GOP was more along the lines of “Ur doing it wrong” rather than “Our policy prescriptions are fucked up.” He seemed genuinely disillusioned, but not ready to admit that it was partly his fault that the GOP has become the wretched excuse for a political party that it has become.

True.

240 Rev_Arthur_Belling  May 26, 2014 8:41:38am

I found it! The Agony of Frank Luntz, by Molly Ball at the Atlantic.

241 Rev_Arthur_Belling  May 26, 2014 8:43:58am
It was what Luntz heard from the American people that scared him. They were contentious and argumentative. They didn’t listen to each other as they once had. They weren’t interested in hearing other points of view. They were divided one against the other, black vs. white, men vs. women, young vs. old, rich vs. poor. “They want to impose their opinions rather than express them,” is the way he describes what he saw. “And they’re picking up their leads from here in Washington.” Haven’t political disagreements always been contentious, I ask? “Not like this,” he says. “Not like this.”

Luntz knew that he, a maker of political messages and attacks and advertisements, had helped create this negativity, and it haunted him. But it was Obama he principally blamed. The people in his focus groups, he perceived, had absorbed the president’s message of class divisions, haves and have-nots, of redistribution. It was a message Luntz believed to be profoundly wrong, but one so powerful he had no slogans, no arguments with which to beat it back. In reelecting Obama, the people had spoken. And the people, he believed, were wrong. Having spent his career telling politicians what the people wanted to hear, Luntz now believed the people had been corrupted and were beyond saving. Obama had ruined the electorate, set them at each other’s throats, and there was no way to turn back.

It’s like he knows there’s a problem, but he’s looking at the wrong people to blame.

242 Eclectic Cyborg  May 26, 2014 8:44:34am

For some reason I always get Luntz mixed up with the Amityville Horror guy.

243 Rev_Arthur_Belling  May 26, 2014 8:44:53am

re: #238 Sergey Romanov

Lee Atwater?

That would be another one. He was an evil mofo, but not stupid. I would put Nixon in that axis as well.

244 Ding-an-sich Wannabe  May 26, 2014 8:46:16am

re: #243 Rev_Arthur_Belling

That would be another one. He was an evil mofo, but not stupid. I would put Nixon in that axis as well.

Frankly, I would not add Rove to the list.

245 Rev_Arthur_Belling  May 26, 2014 8:48:46am

re: #244 Sergey Romanov

Frankly, I would not add Rove to the list.

Nope. Rove has huge stupid errors to go along with his evil. At one point, it could be argued he wasn’t stupid, but I think he happened to be at the right place/right time with GWB, and his bag of tricks worked. He’s become a parody of himself.

247 Ding-an-sich Wannabe  May 26, 2014 8:53:15am

re: #245 Rev_Arthur_Belling

Stoooopid:

Youtube Video

248 Killgore Trout  May 26, 2014 8:53:36am

Unhelpful media headlines

Friend: Santa Barbara killer Elliot Rodger wanted to ‘dominate the world’

Isla Vista shootings: Killing rampage recalls 2001 ‘angel of death’

Reminder: The media’s coverage of these events is unhelpful and does much to perpetuate the problem and inspire copycats
Charlie Brooker: News Coverage of Schoolshooting
Youtube Video

249 Ding-an-sich Wannabe  May 26, 2014 8:54:08am

re: #246 Ryan King

Spanking his torpedo, I see.

250 Belafon  May 26, 2014 8:54:21am

re: #246 Ryan King

Why is that sailor riding a squash?

251 bubba zanetti  May 26, 2014 8:58:47am

More outreach.

252 Rev_Arthur_Belling  May 26, 2014 8:59:04am

re: #247 Sergey Romanov

That was exactly what I had in mind.

253 darthstar  May 26, 2014 9:00:31am

It just dawned on me…for the dumbest thing said about the Isla Vista shootings, we turn to Jim Hoft. For the most craven thing, we turn to Todd Kincannon. It’s just the same handful of assholes for every issue. I find that simultaneously depressing and reassuring.

254 Ryan King  May 26, 2014 9:00:53am

re: #250 Belafon

Why is that sailor riding a squash?

I think it’s a … torpedo, just like Slim Pickens riding the nuclear bomb in Dr Strangelove.

255 Eclectic Cyborg  May 26, 2014 9:01:19am

re: #246 Ryan King

Is it just me or are there homosexual overtones in that image?

256 darthstar  May 26, 2014 9:02:25am

re: #255 Eclectic Cyborg

Is it just me or are there homosexual overtones in that image?

It’s just a little seaman.

257 Eclectic Cyborg  May 26, 2014 9:02:30am

re: #253 darthstar

It just dawned on me…for the dumbest thing said about the Isla Vista shootings, we turn to Jim Hoft. For the most craven thing, we turn to Todd Kincannon. It’s just the same handful of assholes for every issue. I find that simultaneously depressing and reassuring.

As predictable as the sun coming up every morning.

258 sattv4u2  May 26, 2014 9:02:54am

re: #250 Belafon

Why is that sailor riding a squash?

Because the Zucchini was being used by the army!!

259 Eclectic Cyborg  May 26, 2014 9:02:57am

re: #256 darthstar

It’s just a little seaman.

“I’m George Takei and I approve this innuendo.”

260 Rev_Arthur_Belling  May 26, 2014 9:03:18am

re: #251 bubba zanetti

[Embedded content]

More outreach.

What an ass. Also, I wish these people would understand the difference between the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution.

261 Rev_Arthur_Belling  May 26, 2014 9:03:33am

re: #259 Eclectic Cyborg

“I’m George Takei and I approve this innuendo.”

Oh, my!

262 sagehen  May 26, 2014 9:03:40am

re: #255 Eclectic Cyborg

Is it just me or are there homosexual overtones in that image?

It’s not just you.

263 Ryan King  May 26, 2014 9:04:04am

re: #255 Eclectic Cyborg

Is it just me or are there homosexual overtones in that image?

Homoerotic Jingoism?

I do have a really dirty mind, so there’s that. But wifey did say ‘phallic.’

264 Rightwingconspirator  May 26, 2014 9:06:08am

re: #263 Ryan King

Ever read one of those articles about how and why we are really good at recognizing faces? I begin to think think facial face recognition might be the second strongest acuity wired in.

Fixd.

265 darthstar  May 26, 2014 9:07:01am

re: #263 Ryan King

Homoerotic Jingoism?

I do have a really dirty mind, so there’s that. But wifey did say ‘phallic.’

I don’t think it looks phallic so much as it looks like an enormous throbbing…metaphor.

266 Ding-an-sich Wannabe  May 26, 2014 9:08:04am

re: #255 Eclectic Cyborg

Is it just me or are there homosexual overtones in that image?

Torpedosexual…

267 Targetpractice  May 26, 2014 9:10:45am

re: #259 Eclectic Cyborg

“I’m George Takei and I approve this innuendo.”

Oh my.

268 Rightwingconspirator  May 26, 2014 9:11:13am

Oh BTW just followed a few more of ya on Twitter. *crosses fingers* Hopefully no mimic stalker types by mistake.

269 Ryan King  May 26, 2014 9:11:19am

re: #265 darthstar

I don’t think it looks phallic so much as it looks like an enormous throbbing…metaphor.

So i think I’ll BBQ some summer squash today while we watch Dr Strangelove.

Do you think the kids will like it?

270 Rightwingconspirator  May 26, 2014 9:12:38am

re: #253 darthstar

It just dawned on me…for the dumbest thing said about the Isla Vista shootings, we turn to Jim Hoft. For the most craven thing, we turn to Todd Kincannon. It’s just the same handful of assholes for every issue. I find that simultaneously depressing and reassuring.

In the MSM for a smart objective look, we got crickets.

271 Targetpractice  May 26, 2014 9:12:42am

re: #269 Ryan King

So i think I’ll BBQ some summer squash today while we watch Dr Strangelove.

Do you think the kids will like it?

What? BBQ’d squash? Or Dr. Strangelove?

272 Ryan King  May 26, 2014 9:12:46am

… the movie?

273 ObserverArt  May 26, 2014 9:12:52am

re: #107 BadExampleMan

Dude, either that’s way too much information, or you really want to rephrase.

In any case, Kincannon strikes me as more of a power bottom, the really really whiny type.

Dude!

I have a inner gauge that judges when someone is being an ass. So, when someone like Kincannon comes along and is displaying maximum levels of being an asshole, it pegs my gauge. Therefor the sentence stands as typed.

Don’t know about the rest of you, but he is pegging my asshole gauge.

Now about your perception of the sentence…I don’t think I want to know.

: )

Outside that…good Holiday Morning/Afternoon all.

274 Killgore Trout  May 26, 2014 9:13:28am

re: #253 darthstar

It just dawned on me…for the dumbest thing said about the Isla Vista shootings, we turn to Jim Hoft. For the most craven thing, we turn to Todd Kincannon. It’s just the same handful of assholes for every issue. I find that simultaneously depressing and reassuring.

That’s the way it works. I’m sure Glenn, Beck Sarah Palin and Bryan Fischer are saying something stupid about the shooting right now. There will be complaints and outrage. For me it illustrates how little we are engaged in the events and world around us. Our thoughts have little to do with actual events, it’s mostly part of a running battle with the same old targets. It doesn’t matter if it’s a plane crash, a shooting or a terrorist attack. The resulting “debate” will always be the same.

275 Ryan King  May 26, 2014 9:14:21am

They’ll like my BBQ’d squash. Everybody likes my BBQ’d squash, unless they’re pinko commies.

276 Ding-an-sich Wannabe  May 26, 2014 9:15:29am

OK, with 80+% of the votes counted:

cvk.gov.ua

Rabinovich gets 2.27, Tyahnybok 1.17, Yarosh 0.68, or T+Y together - 1.85%. That is, an outsider candidate who happens to be a Jewish oligarch gets more votes than both of the leading scary neo-fascist leaders we’ve been hearing so much about together. So much for popularity of fascists among the Ukrainians…

277 kirkspencer  May 26, 2014 9:16:05am

re: #251 bubba zanetti

So Mr. Kincannon, exactly when did you serve this nation? Never?

And you have the utter nerve to slime someone who did because he was the parent of another one who served but who happens to hold different opinions than you?

I cannot decide whether to laugh at your pathetic attempts to prove your manliness or to ask whether the people who’s arses you lick are conservative in their use of toilet paper and hope it is so.

278 Killgore Trout  May 26, 2014 9:17:11am

I’m seeing lots of media mentions of the shooter as a “mentally ill man” but not much explanation as to what he was diagnosed with. Anyone know?

279 Targetpractice  May 26, 2014 9:17:35am

re: #275 Ryan King

They’ll like my BBQ’d squash. Everybody likes me BBQ’d squash, unless they’re pinko commies.

We must take steps to ensure the purity of our precious bodily fluids.

/

280 iceweasel  May 26, 2014 9:17:42am

re: #248 Killgore Trout

Unhelpful media headlines

Friend: Santa Barbara killer Elliot Rodger wanted to ‘dominate the world’

Isla Vista shootings: Killing rampage recalls 2001 ‘angel of death’

Reminder: The media’s coverage of these events is unhelpful and does much to perpetuate the problem and inspire copycats
Charlie Brooker: News Coverage of Schoolshooting
[Embedded content]

What exactly is ‘unhelpful’ about the first headline you quote? The guy was a narcassist and a misogynist— and frankly, probably a sociopath.

It’s an accurate description of his mindset, if you bother to read his 140 page manifesto, as I did.

281 Ryan King  May 26, 2014 9:18:08am

Some extra special Murcan wingnuttery that doesn’t politicize soldiers, no way:

282 Targetpractice  May 26, 2014 9:18:11am

re: #278 Killgore Trout

I’m seeing lots of media mentions of the shooter as a “mentally ill man” but not much explanation as to what he was diagnosed with. Anyone know?

I think by now the media just jumps to the conclusion that mental illness was involved and then waits for the evidence to trickle in.

283 Bear  May 26, 2014 9:18:14am

To me Memorial Day is May 30 not today.

However have a good day and a better one tomorrow.

284 iceweasel  May 26, 2014 9:18:24am

re: #278 Killgore Trout

I’m seeing lots of media mentions of the shooter as a “mentally ill man” but not much explanation as to what he was diagnosed with. Anyone know?

Asperger’s, allegedly, but that would in no way account for his actions.

285 Targetpractice  May 26, 2014 9:18:43am

re: #281 Ryan King

Some extra special Murcan wingnuttery that doesn’t politicize soldiers, no way:

[Embedded content]

I wonder if they remember that Shinseki is a veteran?

286 Ding-an-sich Wannabe  May 26, 2014 9:18:57am

re: #278 Killgore Trout

I’m seeing lots of media mentions of the shooter as a “mentally ill man” but not much explanation as to what he was diagnosed with. Anyone know?

I know that it’s usually foolish to make diagnoses from afar, but … his “manifesto” screams mental illness of some sort, whether diagnosed or not.

287 Killgore Trout  May 26, 2014 9:20:10am

The coup will continue until morale improves

Thai military leader: Junta will hold power ‘indefinitely’

Thailand’s new military leader said Monday that the junta would hold power “indefinitely,” and warned citizens not to instigate chaos or criticize his rule.

“It’s no use,” Gen. Prayuth Chan-ocha said in a testy news conference that ended with him departing the stage mid-question.

288 iceweasel  May 26, 2014 9:21:03am

re: #286 Sergey Romanov

I know that it’s usually foolish to make diagnoses from afar, but … his “manifesto” screams mentall illness of some sort, whether diagnosed or not.

Sociopathy, seriously. Which (technically) is not a mental illness per se.

289 Killgore Trout  May 26, 2014 9:21:41am

re: #280 iceweasel

What exactly is ‘unhelpful’ about the first headline you quote? The guy was a narcassist and a misogynist— and frankly, probably a sociopath.

It’s an accurate description of his mindset, if you bother to read his 140 page manifesto, as I did.

Watch the Brooker clip. Forensic psychologists think the media coverage contributes to the problem and have been warning about it for quite some time.

290 Killgore Trout  May 26, 2014 9:23:15am

re: #286 Sergey Romanov

I know that it’s usually foolish to make diagnoses from afar, but … his “manifesto” screams mentall illness of some sort, whether diagnosed or not.

I saw mention that his therapist/psychologist was one of the people he contacted before the shootings so he was in treatment for something, not sure what.

291 Ding-an-sich Wannabe  May 26, 2014 9:23:23am

re: #288 iceweasel

Sociopathy, seriously. Which (technically) is not a mental illness per se.

Probably, but there was also an idee fixe involved - and that since his childhood - that he would never have sex because he wasn’t worthy or smth. Which sort of became a self-fulfilling prophecy. That’s not normal.

292 Ding-an-sich Wannabe  May 26, 2014 9:24:36am

re: #291 Sergey Romanov

That said, we can speculate about it in the comments, but the media should be professional and not claim mental illness unless it was actually proven.

293 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  May 26, 2014 9:26:32am

re: #289 Killgore Trout

Watch the Brooker clip. Forensic psychologists think the media coverage contributes to the problem and have been warning about it for quite some time.

Some do. Some don’t. We don’t actually have any good data on whether or not people get more inspired by media coverage.

For one thing, if that were true we’d expect an increase in mass killings with the spread of mass media, but we don’t have that.

Image: mass.shootings.jpg

We actually have a decline in mass shootings since the 1980s.

(Data from Grant Duwe, excludes gang and drug stuff)

294 Killgore Trout  May 26, 2014 9:26:40am

Nigeria kidnapped girls: Government ‘called off deal’

The BBC has learned that officials have held talks with the group to secure the release of the schoolgirls.

An intermediary met Boko Haram leaders earlier this month and visited the location in north-east Nigeria where the girls were being held, says the BBC’s Will Ross in the capital, Abuja.

A deal was almost reached to set some of the girls free in exchange for the release of 100 Boko Haram members being held in detention, our correspondent says.

But the government cancelled the planned agreement shortly before the swap was due to take place.

The reasons for the withdrawal are unclear.

295 Rightwingconspirator  May 26, 2014 9:27:01am

re: #278 Killgore Trout

I’m seeing lots of media mentions of the shooter as a “mentally ill man” but not much explanation as to what he was diagnosed with. Anyone know?

CNN had someone on that named the syndrome. i scratched it off the list of the likely possibilities.

296 iceweasel  May 26, 2014 9:30:54am

re: #291 Sergey Romanov

Probably, but there was also an idee fixe involved - and that since his childhood - that he would never have sex because he wasn’t worthy or smth. Which sort of became a self-fulfilling prophecy. That’s not normal.

I don’t agree that there was an idee fixe involved— unless it’s the sociopathic mantra, “I deserve to have whatever I want, and I am superior to all the rest of you”. If you’ve read his manifesto, you’d see that he complains about things like not being given the private balcony and bath in his —6 bedroom!— house, or about his little brother having to come along when his family was summering in Morocco.

Honestly, I think his manifesto reveals him as psychopathically consumed with ideas of status, and believing he was entitled to sex was all part of that.

297 Ding-an-sich Wannabe  May 26, 2014 9:31:51am

re: #296 iceweasel

Well, he wrote explicitly that already as a kid he “understood” that he would have no sex, and that later it was confirmed.

298 Dr Lizardo  May 26, 2014 9:32:36am

re: #289 Killgore Trout

Watch the Brooker clip. Forensic psychologists think the media coverage contributes to the problem and have been warning about it for quite some time.

Sort of reminds me of Martin Bryant, the perpetrator of the Port Arthur Massacre. Even though the actual, specific motive for the crime hasn’t been officially disclosed - you know, attorney/client confidentiality, and the fact that the case never went to trial, Mr. Bryant pleading guilty and being subsequently given 27 life sentences - his attorney basically said it was because Mr. Bryant wanted to “one-up” the Dunblane Massacre, which had taken place only a couple of weeks earlier, and received wall-to-wall media coverage down in Australia.

So in that particular instance, the saturation coverage by the media may well have been the triggering event.

299 iceweasel  May 26, 2014 9:34:09am

re: #297 Sergey Romanov

Well, he wrote explicitly that already as a kid he “understood” that he would have no sex, and that later it was confirmed.

He also wrote about fantasisies of omnipotence, and forcing the whole world to not have sex because he felt he couldn’t.
Just seems like a guy with simaltaneous grandiosity and also self-loathing.

300 Ryan King  May 26, 2014 9:34:19am
The PuaHate website was taken down as soon as its role in the shooting was revealed. Some of its final posters expressed admiration for what Rodger had done, calling him a “hero.”

Until some professionals come out and state what mental issues Elliot Roger had I’ll consider him a misogynistic terrorist.

301 Ding-an-sich Wannabe  May 26, 2014 9:39:58am

re: #299 iceweasel

Yes, but in this case he is describing his own childhood feelings, as opposed to fantasies of domination:

I developed a very high sex drive, and it would always remain like this. This was the start of hell for me. Going through puberty utterly doomed my existence. It condemned me to live a life of suffering and unfulfilled desires. Even at that young age, I felt depressed because I wanted sex, yet I felt unworthy of it. I didn’t think I was ever going to experience sex in reality, and I was right. I never did. I was finally interested in girls, but there was no way I could ever get them. And so my starvation began.

He had no reason to think that, yet he did. I’d say it at least looks like idee fixe.

302 GlutenFreeJesus  May 26, 2014 9:40:17am

re: #58 Gus

[Embedded content]

So not one single mass shooter has been a Liberal? You should let Jim Hoft in on this revelation

303 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  May 26, 2014 9:40:45am

re: #300 Ryan King

Until some professionals come out and state what mental issues Elliot Roger had I’ll consider him a misogynistic terrorist.

It’s kind of a red herring. There are mentally ill people who kill others. There are far more mentally ill people who don’t. There are sane people who kill people. There are far more sane people who don’t.

304 blueraven  May 26, 2014 9:40:51am
305 ObserverArt  May 26, 2014 9:42:02am

re: #245 Rev_Arthur_Belling

Nope. Rove has huge stupid errors to go along with his evil. At one point, it could be argued he wasn’t stupid, but I think he happened to be at the right place/right time with GWB, and his bag of tricks worked. He’s become a parody of himself.

In a sense Rove is now a boat anchor.

The new Republican party has a lot of them. Especially since they have more or less stated the Tea Party is the Republican Party.

Anymore it seems the term RINO needs to be shifted to the whole party instead of an individual. To a large, and growing larger, segment on the U.S. population the “Republican Party is a Party in Name Only.” The individuals are so all over the place now and really can’t be controlled, it is getting harder to see a cohesive party.

306 BongCrodny  May 26, 2014 9:46:28am

re: #304 blueraven

[Embedded content]

Kincannon’s confusing dissent with nonsense.

307 Ding-an-sich Wannabe  May 26, 2014 9:47:21am

re: #306 BongCrodny

Kincannon’s confusing dissent with nonsense.

The Westboro Baptist Church are his kind of dissenters.

308 Ryan King  May 26, 2014 9:48:32am

re: #306 BongCrodny

Kincannon’s confusing dissent with nonsense DOUCHECANNONAGE.

Not subtle, yet unrefined.

309 ObserverArt  May 26, 2014 9:49:40am

re: #285 Targetpractice

I wonder if they remember that Shinseki is a veteran?

Not as much as they see him as a tool of that Wicked Barack Hussein Obama.

310 iceweasel  May 26, 2014 9:50:09am

PUAs and MRAs contimue to put the blame where it belongs— women, of course.
Anti-woman website predicts more Elliott Rogers if society doesn’t provide them with sex

Admitting that he was once “no different than Rodger,” Roosh continued, “Seven people are dead because society has decided that shy and awkward men like Elliot Rodger do not deserve a girlfriend and that there is absolutely no way to improve his loneliness and loserdom through learning game or any other social behavior. At the same time men like him are ostracized, there is no legal means for him to solicit prostitution (in California) to release his biological and very pressing urge for fornication.”

Roosh recommends that society change its ways, warning: “More people will die unless you give men sexual options.”

“Until you give men like Rodger a way to have sex, either by encouraging him to learn game, seek out a Thai wife, or engage in legalized prostitution—three things that the American media and cultural elite venomously attack, it’s inevitable for another massacre to occur. Even game itself, as useful as it is on a individual level, is a band-aid fix upon a culture which has stopped rewarding nice guys while encouraging female whoring to benefit only the top 10% of alpha males, all in the name of societal progress.”

311 Rev_Arthur_Belling  May 26, 2014 9:53:04am

re: #310 iceweasel

“Until you give men like Rodger a way to have sex, either by encouraging him to learn game, seek out a Thai wife, or engage in legalized prostitution—three things that the American media and cultural elite venomously attack, it’s inevitable for another massacre to occur. Even game itself, as useful as it is on a individual level, is a band-aid fix upon a culture which has stopped rewarding nice guys while encouraging female whoring to benefit only the top 10% of alpha males, all in the name of societal progress.”

I can’t imagine why anyone wouldn’t want to have sex with a guy like that! ///

(also, Thai wife? Really?)

312 bratwurst  May 26, 2014 9:55:00am

re: #304 blueraven

[Embedded content]

Another guy who seems to be really confused on the whole “free speech” vs. “consequence-free speech” thing.

313 iceweasel  May 26, 2014 9:56:04am

re: #311 Rev_Arthur_Belling

I can’t imagine why anyone wouldn’t want to have sex with a guy like that! ///

(also, Thai wife? Really?)

Yes, they (PUAs) believe that all American women are sluts, and the only way to have a ‘good’ wife (or girlfriend) is to go to other countries, esp. the Third World. By good of course they mean ‘subservient and grateful’.

314 Justanotherhuman  May 26, 2014 9:58:40am

re: #310 iceweasel

PUAs and MRAs contimue to put the blame where it belongs— women, of course.
Anti-woman website predicts more Elliott Rogers if society doesn’t provide them with sex

That’s the stupidest fucking thing I may have ever read that purported to be “serious”.

These guys are seriously head cases.

315 ObserverArt  May 26, 2014 9:59:33am

re: #293 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

Some do. Some don’t. We don’t actually have any good data on whether or not people get more inspired by media coverage.

For one thing, if that were true we’d expect an increase in mass killings with the spread of mass media, but we don’t have that.

Image: mass.shootings.jpg

We actually have a decline in mass shootings since the 1980s.

(Data from Grant Duwe, excludes gang and drug stuff)

I think the chart shows the peak was the early 90s so the decline would be after that time.

Do you have a link or remember where that chart came from? I would like to see the data they used to create that plot line. It just doesn’t seem correct to me, but then I do not know what all they count as mass shootings.

316 Rev_Arthur_Belling  May 26, 2014 9:59:37am

Also, nobody is entitled to have sex with anyone they want. Sex takes (at least) two willing participants. These assholes seem to think they’re entitled to get their satisfaction with no regard to the personal agency of the other person involved. It doesn’t (shouldn’t) work that way.

317 iceweasel  May 26, 2014 10:00:17am

re: #314 Justanotherhuman

That’s the stupidest fucking thing I may have ever read that purported to be “serious”.

These guys are seriously head cases.

You’re right, of course, but I have to say this line of thinking—Denying men sex causes MASS MURDER!— is depressingly common on these sites.

318 ObserverArt  May 26, 2014 10:01:17am

re: #315 ObserverArt

I think the chart shows the peak was the early 90s so the decline would be after that time.

Do you have a link or remember where that chart came from? I would like to see the data they used to create that plot line. It just doesn’t seem correct to me, but then I do not know what all they count as mass shootings.

EDIT: Looking for Grant Duwe in Google search.

319 iceweasel  May 26, 2014 10:02:57am

re: #316 Rev_Arthur_Belling

Also, nobody is entitled to have sex with anyone they want. Sex takes (at least) two willing participants. These assholes seem to think they’re entitled to get their satisfaction with no regard to the personal agency of the other person involved. It doesn’t (shouldn’t) work that way.

Of course! These men are deeply confused by the notion of consent, and believe that they’re entitled to sex on demand.

Yesterday I read an article on one of these sites that claimed there was no such thing as marital rape, because married women aren’t allowed to deny sex to their husband ever. This is really how they think.

320 thedopefishlives  May 26, 2014 10:03:09am

Afternoon Lizardim. It’s a sweltering hot day here in the wild north country, soon to be followed by rain. While I personally have not lost any family in the line of duty, I come from a proud family history of military and civil service, and I remember those who have gone before so that I can barbecue delicious meat in my driveway and enjoy a relaxing holiday. How go things among the lizardfolk?

321 Targetpractice  May 26, 2014 10:04:41am

re: #319 iceweasel

Of course! These men are deeply confused by the notion of consent, and believe that they’re entitled to sex on demand.

Yesterday I read an article on one of these sites that claimed there was no such thing as marital rape, because married women aren’t allowed to deny sex to their husband ever. This is really how they think.

It is because it’s how society used to think. I wouldn’t be surprised if most of those in the MRA/PUA crowd grew up in homes with no father around to provide a positive example or, worse, a father who taught them through example that a woman is only good for procreation and slave labor. That it’s a man’s world and any woman who tries to act equal needs to be “put in her place.”

322 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  May 26, 2014 10:05:36am

re: #315 ObserverArt

I think the chart shows the peak was the early 90s so the decline would be after that time.

Do you have a link or remember where that chart came from? I would like to see the data they used to create that plot line. It just doesn’t seem correct to me, but then I do not know what all they count as mass shootings.

It’s from the book Mass Murder in the United States: A History.

amazon.com

Very balanced look at the topic. The criteria for mass public killing is four or more people in rapid succession, not related to drugs or organized crime or gangs, happening in a public place.

323 BongCrodny  May 26, 2014 10:07:55am

The Forbes story on Rodger is interesting, but some of the comments — good lord, they sound almost as crazy as Rodger himself.

“Agree, both women and men need to take a role in this. If one woman had taken it for the team, this might not have happened.”

324 iceweasel  May 26, 2014 10:08:02am

re: #321 Targetpractice

It is because it’s how society used to think. I wouldn’t be surprised if most of those in the MRA/PUA crowd grew up in homes with no father around to provide a positive example or, worse, a father who taught them through example that a woman is only good for procreation and slave labor. That it’s a man’s world and any woman who tries to act equal needs to be “put in her place.”

You’re probably right.

325 ObserverArt  May 26, 2014 10:11:27am

re: #322 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

It’s from the book Mass Murder in the United States: A History.

amazon.com

Very balanced look at the topic. The criteria for mass public killing is four or more people in rapid succession, not related to drugs or organized crime or gangs, happening in a public place.

Thanks.

I did find some of what I needed to know here: Here & Now - Criminologist Says Mass Murder In U.S. Is Declining

This little bit from that article is more or less what I needed (plus your mention of 4 or more in rapid succession)

“I think it’s important for everyone to understand the cases that receive extensive coverage, that those aren’t the only mass murders that take place within the U.S.,” Duwe said. “Within a given year, there are about 30 mass murders that occur in this country.”

The more common mass murder is familicide, where a male head of the household kills his partner and his children, then kills himself, Duwe said.

326 Targetpractice  May 26, 2014 10:11:56am

Oh, and this bit from “Roosh’s” “wisdom”:

He then explains that when women have “passed their physical prime” they then select a “nice guy” with whom to settle down, with the understanding that he is “expected to keep his mouth shut when a trickle flow of informational torture reveals that his bride-to-be has experienced more than a dozen different penises in her vagina, anus, and mouth—the same mouth that is supposed to kiss his future children good night.”

Is textbook misogynist crap, the idea that a woman should be a virgin right up til marriage, only ever known the touch of her husband, and get absolutely no enjoyment out of sex because she’s there strictly for his pleasure.

327 Skip Intro  May 26, 2014 10:14:13am
Wayne LaPierre gets paid when his masters sell guns to the bad guys. Wayne LaPierre gets paid when his masters sell guns to the good guys because of the guns he’s already arranged to sell to the bad guys. Wayne LaPierre is the strange white man in the Congo who knows where he can get you some AK’s. He’s the shadowy fellow in the coffee shop in Kabul who knows where RPG’s can be had, cheap. He’s the well-dressed, silken-voiced operator, sipping his tea on a cool and breezy veranda outside of Bogota, who smiles at you and shows you on the map where you can pick up your order, because it is time once again for you to make war and him to make money. His look is the smooth and shiny black of the vulture’s feathers. He feasts on the carrion of nations.

So that is Memorial Day this year, in a country in which its citizens are encouraged to make war on each other because not enough people care enough to stop it. There are more flowers in more places and there is no peace in sight, because we have chosen as a country to slake our appetite for it with blood. The dead are not honored in this war. Only the instrumentality of their murder is, god help us all.

esquire.com

328 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  May 26, 2014 10:14:30am

re: #325 ObserverArt

Yeah, those numbers are ‘public’ shootings, they specifically exclude home murders.

329 Rev_Arthur_Belling  May 26, 2014 10:15:21am

re: #326 Targetpractice

expected to keep his mouth shut when a trickle flow of informational torture reveals that his bride-to-be has experienced more than a dozen different penises in her vagina, anus, and mouth—the same mouth that is supposed to kiss his future children good night.

And no mention of where his mouth or penis have been, either. Hmmmm.

330 thedopefishlives  May 26, 2014 10:16:04am

re: #329 Rev_Arthur_Belling

And no mention of where his mouth or penis have been, either. Hmmmm.

Because that doesn’t matter. But there’s no double standard there, no sir.

331 Ding-an-sich Wannabe  May 26, 2014 10:17:07am

I used to think this was a trolling blog/some kind of hardcore parody.

bobstruth.blogspot.com

No longer sure this is so.

Behold:

bobstruth.blogspot.com

332 jaunte  May 26, 2014 10:27:16am

re: #281 Ryan King

Some extra special Murcan wingnuttery that doesn’t politicize soldiers, no way:

[Embedded content]

Ramirez probably doesn’t understand that his cartoon also works with almost any GOP politician standing at the podium.

333 Targetpractice  May 26, 2014 10:28:37am

re: #330 thedopefishlives

Because that doesn’t matter. But there’s no double standard there, no sir.

Of course not. As a “nice guy,” he’s entitled to as much sex as he likes, on demand, and with as many women as he likes.

When I read that bit by “Roosh,” I don’t hear a self-confident guy. I hear a whiny little douche who knows that he doesn’t measure up to the competition. He wants the world to lower their standards to fit him instead of lowering his standards to a girl who might actually want to fuck him.

334 ObserverArt  May 26, 2014 10:28:57am

re: #328 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

Yeah, those numbers are ‘public’ shootings, they specifically exclude home murders.

I’ll have to search to see if there are similar charts on “public” shootings. That would be an interesting data set to study to go along with some of the thinking by socialists/psychologists that say playing up the public shooting leads to more public shootings.

Still though, I am saddened by it all. Humans.

335 Stanley Sea  May 26, 2014 10:31:26am

re: #327 Skip Intro

esquire.com

Brilliant, as always.

336 Ding-an-sich Wannabe  May 26, 2014 10:38:46am
337 otoc  May 26, 2014 10:39:42am

Pardon me if this has been posted already, a quick look didn’t find it.

Peter Rodger rushed to find son ahead of killing spree

The Hunger Games assistant director Peter Rodger desperately tried to find his son Elliot after watching a chilling youtube.com video in which the youngster outlines his massacre plan. The 22-year-old British-born student is suspected of stabbing three victims and shooting three more during a killing spree in Isla Vista, California on Friday (23May14). At least 13 others were injured in the rampage, which ended when Rodger crashed his car and allegedly shot himself in the head after exchanging gunfire with cops. It has now emerged Rodger’s filmmaker father Peter was alerted to his son’s meltdown by watching a youtube.com video, titled ‘Retribution’, in which the student vows to exact “revenge against humanity” by “slaughtering” young women. Peter Rodger and Elliot’s mother Lichin reportedly contacted police and drove from Los Angeles to Santa Barbara on Friday in an attempt to find their son, but were unable to locate him.

As a parent, I don’t think I could imagine a more painful experience on top of this painful experience.

338 FemNaziBitch  May 26, 2014 11:30:03am

This man, has no inkling that his daughter could be carrying as well and shooting back?

I don’t agree with the whole concept but that he only included “sons” in his statement is truly pathetic.

339 A Mom Anon  May 26, 2014 11:59:32am

re: #284 iceweasel

He was also an adult, and unless he signed off on letting his parents have access to any medical records, there’s no way of actually knowing what was happening with him. Unless the police can access the records somehow now that he’s dead, or the diagnosis came when he was a kid and the family made that public. I can’t bring myself to read the manifesto or watch the videos he made, so I don’t know if that revealed anything related to this. Asperger Syndrome has become a media scapegoat for violence, because of the misconception that people with AS have no empathy. This isn’t true. The majority have empathy, they just don’t communicate it like most people do. This shit makes it really hard on people with Asperger’s, like my son.

Lots of adults say they’re autistic or on the autism spectrum because of particular difficulties they may be having, usually social. It’s less common for them to have an actual diagnosis from the right kind of professional (like, say, a neuropsychiatrist for example). Self diagnosis can be spot on or off by a mile. He could just as easily been bi-polar, had PTSD, or a host of other issues.

340 The Awkward Guy  May 26, 2014 12:16:43pm

As a nice guy, I am entitled to nothing.


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