1 | Kragar May 27, 2014 11:58:23am |
The GOP takeaway: “He wants to end wars? What a weakling!”
2 | Targetpractice May 27, 2014 11:59:17am |
And by tomorrow morning, every wingnut in America will be screeching “He’s telling the enemy when to strike! He’s broadcasting our game plan! HE’S PUTTING OUR TROOPS AT RISK!!!”
3 | Kragar May 27, 2014 12:02:57pm |
re: #2 Targetpractice
And by tomorrow morning, every wingnut in America will be screeching “He’s telling the enemy when to strike! He’s broadcasting our game plan! HE’S PUTTING OUR TROOPS AT RISK!!!”
“First he said 98,000. What is he trying to cover up?”
4 | Gus May 27, 2014 12:04:13pm |
From the fringes:
• 9,800 troops to remain! War Monger!
• Peacenick commie weakling appeasing Muslims!
5 | Pie-onist Overlord May 27, 2014 12:05:35pm |
It must suck to be a customer service representative when Glenn Greenwald calls in.— Benjamin Hart (@realaxelfoley) May 27, 2014
6 | blueraven May 27, 2014 12:05:44pm |
Eh…he will get some grief from the right and the left.
But I believe in general, leaving 9800 troops for a couple of years will be supported.
7 | Targetpractice May 27, 2014 12:06:20pm |
re: #4 Gus
From the fringes:
• 9,800 troops to remain! War Monger!
• Peacenick commie weakling appeasing Muslims!
I take the position in-between: Time to get the fuck out. This war’s going nowhere and our “advisers” deserve to come home now. If the Afghan military’s not ready to stand on its own after a decade, it’s never going to be ready.
8 | Kragar May 27, 2014 12:07:45pm |
re: #5 Pie-onist Overlord
[Embedded content]
“This call may be recorded” and then it all went downhill from there @realaxelfoley— Kragar (@Kragar_LGF) May 27, 2014
9 | Backwoods_Sleuth May 27, 2014 12:12:45pm |
Kentucky #hemp, going in the ground at University of Kentucky research farm. pic.twitter.com/BwyQxLzekj
— Janet Patton (@janetpattonhl) May 27, 2014
10 | Killgore Trout May 27, 2014 12:13:51pm |
11 | Charles Johnson May 27, 2014 12:13:59pm |
I get the feeling Americans are wishing the Afghanistan War would just go away at this point.
12 | Gus May 27, 2014 12:15:56pm |
There's no sugar-coating Obama's drawdown announcement: the Taliban has won http://t.co/na3P5d6r3c— Vox (@voxdotcom) May 27, 2014
O.o
13 | Killgore Trout May 27, 2014 12:16:13pm |
re: #11 Charles Johnson
I get the feeling Americans are wishing the Afghanistan War would just go away at this point.
They’ll get their wish. As our involvement winds down we’ll hear less and less about Afghanistan. It’ll be like it never happened once we’re out.
14 | Shiplord Kirel May 27, 2014 12:16:38pm |
Seriously evil tin foiler shit at Free Republic:
Zbigniew Brzezinski Views American Public as Stupid, Ignorant Proles
Rothschild Zionist Zbigniew Brzeziński bluntly states his view on the American public as mindless workers who are ignorant and interested in watching mindless television, hence supporting the view of the NWO to rule over these mindless masses “for their own good”.
A creator of the infamous Trilateral Commission, with Federal Reserve owner David Rockefeller, Brzeziński is one of the most blatant commanders of the New World Order and was one of the lead strategists behind the “War on Terror” and build up of Islamic Fundamentalism in order to create World War 3.
Learn how Brzeziński moulded the United States presidency into his own tyrannical image and see how Barack Obama was influenced and shaped by him. (emphasis added)
Not too many years ago, the Freeper mods would have deleted this garbage instantly. Now it is getting a pretty favorable response from the assembled hordes, with a few dissenters agreeing with Brzeziński. Not that it’s important, but Brzezinski is not in fact Jewish.
15 | Targetpractice May 27, 2014 12:17:08pm |
re: #12 Gus
[Embedded content]
O.o
If that’s the way they wish to spin it, go ahead. If we’re at war with the Taliban, it’s because we picked a war with them in the first place. We turned what was supposed to be a war with the people who killed nearly 3,000 Americans into a nation-building exercise, one which has gone tits-up.
16 | Kragar May 27, 2014 12:17:50pm |
re: #12 Gus
[Embedded content]
O.o
Having their government toppled and forced to live in caves for a decade = winning?
17 | lawhawk May 27, 2014 12:18:55pm |
The situation in Afghanistan is an intolerable one for which there are no easy answers. It’s not just Afghanistan but Pakistan and the frontier provinces from which the Taliban are able to use as safe havens. You can’t address one without addressing the other, and the Pakistanis are unwilling/incapable of doing anything about the frontier provinces which are semi autonomous and crackdowns there by the military have led to blowback in Islamabad.
Reducing the number of troops and eventually turning over security to Afghanistan are good, and having an idea of when to do so is also good - in theory. The military needs to prepare for the eventual withdrawal and having a timetable addresses those logistical needs.
In practice the timetables give the opposition something to target and can fashion a strategy based on what the US does. It can put our troops in more danger as the troop numbers are reduced over time and could expose weaknesses in troop locations.
At the same time, some of this is contingent upon getting a status of forces agreement (SOFA) that the US would accept - including addressing the issue of immunity for US forces from prosecution by the Afghan government. This issue led to withdrawal of US forces from Iraq earlier than anticipated because a SOFA couldn’t be worked out.
All this leaves Afghanistan to more or less stand on its own at the mercy of the Taliban once again to be resurgent. The Afghan military might have some capable leaders and some capable units, but there are significant areas of concern (article as of September 2013).
In Kabul there are constant worries about the impact on morale if troops and civilians feel abandoned by their former backers.
And so a security handover driven by a political imperative is being presented, in part, as a response to the improving capacity of the Afghan security forces.
The political theatre reached a peak earlier this year at the 18 June ceremony to mark “milestone 13”, the handover of security control. Karzai and Barack Obama had agreed it would happen before the summer, so officials chose almost the last day of spring for the ceremony.
Security was so tight that diplomats and journalists were flown across the city in helicopters, to hear speeches about how effective the army and police were at protecting the country. Western military officials were ordered into civilian clothes or dress uniform, so the television images showed Afghan viewers familiar only with combat fatigues a crowd that appeared to already have been stripped of foreign military.
Politicians hailed the completion of a security transfer that Dunford later admitted was still very much underway in the most dangerous parts of the country. The handover has been a rolling process and the final areas chosen for the final - “tranche five” -stage, which make up about a quarter of Afghanistan’s 398 districts, had not yet been transferred.
“At the national level, primary responsibility for security is with the ministry of defence and ministry of interior, and I am in support. In some of the tranche five areas, we still have security responsibility as a result of not completing the process,” Dunford told a news conference at coalition headquarters in Kabul.
That is not to say there have been improvements, particularly since Nato began focusing seriously on training in 2009, and the long, slow security transfer began in 2011. The police and army, now 350,000strong, are almost unrecognisable from the small, fragmented forces of several years ago.
Some areas are particularly strong. Afghans are brave, even when ill-equipped, and special forces have an impressive record despite the recent departure of a police general who commanded many of them.
18 | Backwoods_Sleuth May 27, 2014 12:20:58pm |
re: #13 Killgore Trout
They’ll get their wish. As our involvement winds down we’ll hear less and less about Afghanistan. It’ll be like it never happened once we’re out.
Yep, just like Vietnam.
Oh, wait…
19 | b.d. May 27, 2014 12:21:05pm |
re: #12 Gus
[Embedded content]
O.o
Vox has grown very wearisome already.
I wish the fad of Dudebrospainin’ journalism would just go away already.
20 | Killgore Trout May 27, 2014 12:21:06pm |
re: #12 Gus
[Embedded content]
O.o
Looks like Vox has decided on the click bait business model. I thought their article about “Putin has fallen into Obama’s clever trap” article was stupid clickbait too. So it looks like Vox is going to be a bit like Mediaite. Just a collection of outrage inducing clickbait without a partisan agenda. Some Clikcbait for the lefy, some clikcbait for the right. Meh, I was hoping for more. Oh well.
21 | Bulworth May 27, 2014 12:21:21pm |
Brzeziński is one of the most blatant commanders of the New World Order
Fascinating! How do the FEMA death camp trailer parks fit into this? //
22 | b.d. May 27, 2014 12:22:11pm |
The bright side is, that at this rate, in 5 years Russia will be ready to go back to Afghanistan again.
//
23 | RealityBasedSteve May 27, 2014 12:22:45pm |
re: #15 Targetpractice
If that’s the way they wish to spin it, go ahead. If we’re at war with the Taliban, it’s because we picked a war with them in the first place. We turned what was supposed to be a war with the people who killed nearly 3,000 Americans into a nation-building exercise, one which has gone tits-up.
I’ve not heard anybody use the “Tango-Uniform” expression for quite a while.
RBS
24 | Shiplord Kirel May 27, 2014 12:24:08pm |
re: #21 Bulworth
Brzeziński is one of the most blatant commanders of the New World Order
Fascinating! How do the FEMA death camp trailer parks fit into this? //
That’s where he plans to put the anti-Zionist, Bible reading, gun owning patriots before their final disposition. Of course, the first inmates will have to be the incompetent contractors and lackeys who have failed to finish the camps and get them operational even after 30 years.
25 | Pie-onist Overlord May 27, 2014 12:24:17pm |
Glenn linking to crazypants anti-Semitic hate site.
“@ggreenwald: 0h,please. Snowden blogged endless libertarian nonsense and Packer nailed both of you. You have no intellectual integrity.— Jonathan Alter (@jonathanalter) May 27, 2014
26 | Killgore Trout May 27, 2014 12:24:26pm |
re: #18 Backwoods_Sleuth
Yep, just like Vietnam.
Oh, wait…
The Vietnam war had a whole culture to it (or at least opposing it). Not so much with Afghanistan, Anti-war protests disappeared when Obama took office. Sure there will be some Afghanistan war movies from time to time but Americans don;t care about what’s happening in Afghanistan now and they’ll care even less once we leave.
27 | Bulworth May 27, 2014 12:25:45pm |
Won’t comment on Afghanistan until I hear what Half governor Palin has to say about it. ///
28 | Targetpractice May 27, 2014 12:26:18pm |
re: #23 RealityBasedSteve
I’ve not heard anybody use the “Tango-Uniform” expression for quite a while.
RBS
Haven’t used it in awhile myself, which is funny for a guy who’s lived his life around military aviation in one form or another.
29 | Bulworth May 27, 2014 12:27:15pm |
Hmmm, Jonathan Alter does not sound pleased with the dudebros….
30 | Decatur Deb May 27, 2014 12:27:40pm |
31 | Charles Johnson May 27, 2014 12:28:30pm |
To explain Snowden's “actual views” to Jonathan Alter, @ggreenwald links to notorious antisemite Justin Raimondo. https://t.co/YotiOl2ORJ— Charles Johnson (@Green_Footballs) May 27, 2014
32 | wrenchwench May 27, 2014 12:28:30pm |
re: #26 Killgore Trout
The Vietnam war had a whole culture to it (or at least opposing it). Not so much with Afghanistan, Anti-war protests disappeared when Obama took office. Sure there will be some Afghanistan war movies from time to time but Americans don;t care about what’s happening in Afghanistan now and they’ll care even less once we leave.
There’s a bit of a difference between 50,000 dead Americans and 2,000 dead Americans. Both leave scars, but the former leaves a whole lot more of them.
34 | Bulworth May 27, 2014 12:31:19pm |
Oh wait, stop the presses…
Joe the fake plumber has uttered words on the Santa Barbara shootings….
35 | Backwoods_Sleuth May 27, 2014 12:31:50pm |
re: #32 wrenchwench
There’s a bit of a difference between 50,000 dead Americans and 2,000 dead Americans. Both leave scars, but the former leaves a whole lot more of them.
Yes, and to someone whose child/sibling/spouse is among the dead, hearing someone blowing off a war as “easily forgotten” is downright heartless.
36 | Rightwingconspirator May 27, 2014 12:31:56pm |
re: #32 wrenchwench
Let’s keep in mind most of the losses had nothing to do with the overturning of the Taliban. That happened long ago. The losses were a far tougher mission-Nation building. The part our allies largely wimped out on. For all the critics wailing about our motives, it was a kinder harder choice to not just up and bail on them.
37 | Gus May 27, 2014 12:32:39pm |
.@aspirational12 @voxdotcom Might be a victory for Vox because I'm sure the Taliban is against bike helmets too. //— Gus (@Gus_802) May 27, 2014
38 | simoom May 27, 2014 12:34:11pm |
After months of preparation and negotiation, “Nightly News” anchor and managing editor Brian Williams met former NSA contractor Edward Snowden last week in Moscow for his first interview with a U.S. television network.
This video contains the first images of their five-hour meeting at the Hotel Baltschug Kempinski just across the Moscow River from the Kremlin and Red Square.
Snowden’s Russian guards prohibit him from receiving visitors in the safe house. Anyone who wants to see him has to enter into lengthy negotiations, as Ströbele did. The procedure is always the same: Guests are driven to a secret rendezvous point, where Snowden meets with them. The same protocol applied to his father, who went to Moscow in early October, that applied to Ströbele’s delegation last week.
Were the negotiations through Greenwald & Co.? Through Wikileaks? Directly with Russian security services? With Snowden’s Russian lawyer (who’s on a board overseeing the FSB)? It also would be nice if NBC made clear exactly what terms they agreed to in order to win the 1st-US-television interview bidding war.
39 | gwangung May 27, 2014 12:35:08pm |
re: #36 Rightwingconspirator
Let’s keep in mind most of the losses had nothing to do with the overturning of the Taliban. That happened long ago. The losses were a far tougher mission-Nation building. The part our allies largely wimped out on. For all the critics wailing about our motives, it was a kinder harder choice to not just up and bail on them.
This assumes that we have expertise at nation building. I think everyone over-estimates our capability at this—-the batting average is far lower than what people think.
And we didn’t help ourselves diverting our attention to Iraq at a critical time.
40 | Charles Johnson May 27, 2014 12:35:14pm |
The title of the article by Raimondo that @ggreenwald just cited: “George Packer Is Good at Fellatio” https://t.co/YotiOl2ORJ— Charles Johnson (@Green_Footballs) May 27, 2014
41 | lawhawk May 27, 2014 12:35:18pm |
Fox Edits Out UCSB Victim’s Grieving Dad’s Comments About Guns And NRA http://t.co/7ZgP8tATH8 #p2 #tcot— Terrell Lewis (@SgBz) May 27, 2014
42 | b.d. May 27, 2014 12:35:20pm |
Vox. com, the website for those who are too sophisticated to go to a website with sideboob.
43 | Kragar May 27, 2014 12:35:35pm |
Next up, Vox explains how the Japanese guy who lived on an island for 30 years ready for the US invasion proves Japan won WWII
44 | Gus May 27, 2014 12:36:29pm |
re: #43 Kragar
Next up, Vox explains how the Japanese guy who lived on an island for 30 years ready for the US invasion proves Japan won WWII
Tweet that.
45 | lawhawk May 27, 2014 12:37:37pm |
re: #33 Gus
There’s still a government in Kabul that has a pretty sizable military at its disposal. They’d still be backstopped by US assistance through this entire time frame, and I’d imagine the Taliban would still see their fair share of UAV drone attacks against top leaders like we’re seeing in Yemen and elsewhere. We might not have boots on the ground, but we’ll be denying them the ability to return to power in Kabul.
It’s still a concern that they’ve got the ability to reconstitute over the border in Pakistan and cause trouble in the neighboring provinces.
46 | Kragar May 27, 2014 12:38:13pm |
Next up, @voxdotcom explains how the Japanese guy who lived on an island for 30 years ready for the US invasion proves Japan won WWII— Kragar (@Kragar_LGF) May 27, 2014
47 | Jack Burton May 27, 2014 12:38:39pm |
re: #31 Charles Johnson
[Embedded content]
I think that guy is a 9/11 Tr00fer too.
He was a dudebro before it was cool.
48 | Decatur Deb May 27, 2014 12:38:56pm |
re: #39 gwangung
This assumes that we have expertise at nation building. I think everyone over-estimates our capability at this—-the batting average is far lower than what people think.
And we didn’t help ourselves diverting our attention to Iraq at a critical time.
Before you can build a nation you have to be sure that it isn’t already built to suit the inhabitants. Most people who wanted Afghanistan to be a modern western-oriented secular democracy are dead.
49 | RealityBasedSteve May 27, 2014 12:39:59pm |
re: #42 b.d.
Vox. com, the website for those who are too sophisticated to go to a website with sideboob.
you are NEVER too sophisticated for sideboob.
RBS
50 | Gus May 27, 2014 12:41:40pm |
51 | Charles Johnson May 27, 2014 12:41:54pm |
re: #47 Jack Burton
I think that guy is a 9/11 Tr00fer too.
He was a dudebro before it was cool.
Justin Raimondo posted a few comments here at LGF back in the day, about his antisemitic conspiracy theories that Israel knew about the 9/11 attacks in advance. I eventually blocked him.
52 | gwangung May 27, 2014 12:42:17pm |
re: #48 Decatur Deb
Before you can build a nation you have to be sure that it isn’t already built to suit the inhabitants. Most people who wanted Afghanistan to be a modern western-oriented secular democracy are dead.
True for us, irrelevant to neo-cons.
53 | Kragar May 27, 2014 12:42:52pm |
re: #50 Gus
Germany is still around. Ergo, the Germans won WW2.
We still have southern states, so the Confederacy won the Civil War
54 | Dr Lizardo May 27, 2014 12:43:19pm |
re: #48 Decatur Deb
Before you can build a nation you have to be sure that it isn’t already built to suit the inhabitants. Most people who wanted Afghanistan to be a modern western-oriented secular democracy are dead.
Or in exile. I knew a couple of them in Berlin.
55 | Decatur Deb May 27, 2014 12:43:32pm |
56 | Rightwingconspirator May 27, 2014 12:43:40pm |
re: #39 gwangung
This assumes that we have expertise at nation building. I think everyone over-estimates our capability at this—-the batting average is far lower than what people think.
And we didn’t help ourselves diverting our attention to Iraq at a critical time.
I don’t think we assumed that at all. We assumed it just had to be done. Did the critics not rightly point out how it was the post soviet abandonment of Afghanistan that led to Bin Laden & the Taliban extremists having so much influence there?
The invasion of Iraq certainly upset the hunt for Bin Laden and the war on the retreating Taliban. Hurt the nation building? Not so sure about that part.
57 | dog philosopher May 27, 2014 12:44:26pm |
On Hallucinating “What The Left Believes”
a sample of the alternate universe of those who can’t accept reality
an article by one victor davis hanson entitled ‘lord obama’
first, massive cognitive dissonance
If we were living in normal times, the following scandals and failures — without going into foreign policy — would have ruined a presidency to the point of reducing it to Nixon, Bush, or Truman poll ratings.
Think of the following: the Fast and Furious scandal, the VA mess, the tapping of the communications of the Associated Press reporters, the NSA monitoring
simply put, “this isn’t happening”
So why is there not much public reaction or media investigatory outrage?
rationalization time
1) His record support among minorities will not change…
blah people excuse, again
2) The media is not just overwhelmingly hard left, but hard left with a chip on its shoulder that its own views are neither accepted by the majority nor usually implemented by government.
a rationization within a rationalization within a hallucination of ‘what the left believes’
But for now, the media is invested in seeing Obama as a once-in-a-lifetime emissary of its own politics.
3) The well-off are indifferent to the Obama record, interested only in its symbolic resonance. Doctrinaire liberalism resonates mostly with the very wealthy. We see that by the voting patterns of our bluest counties, or the contributions of the very affluent. In contrast, Republicanism is mostly embedded within the middle class and upper middle class, while liberalism is a coalition of the affluent and the poor.
really rich people and really poor people are the enemy here. only “middle class and upper middle class” are good. it doesn’t matter what the labels or rationalizations are, it’s merely ‘us against them’ yet again
I leave you with one final paradox. Is one reason that Obama resonates so well with the very wealthy his assurance to them that the muscular successful classes will not be following them into the elite?
Whom does the liberal elite detest? Not the very poor. Not the middle class. Not the conservative wealthy of like class. Mostly it is the Sarah-Palin-type grasping want-to-be’s (thus the vicious David Letterman jokes or Katie Couric animus or Bill Maher venom)
in the old days, people with rich fantasy lives like this would be found trying to grab the attention of other people who happened to wander into the diner that they spent all of their time in
these days, they make a living writing about it
58 | Jack Burton May 27, 2014 12:44:42pm |
re: #48 Decatur Deb
Before you can build a nation you have to be sure that it isn’t already built to suit the inhabitants. Most people who wanted Afghanistan to be a modern western-oriented secular democracy are dead.
Or gave up and emigrated to the west.
59 | darthstar May 27, 2014 12:45:19pm |
60 | Justanotherhuman May 27, 2014 12:46:51pm |
Well, I’m happy on 2 fronts: That we’re pretty much getting out of Afghanistan, and two, my great-grandson finally graduated. From kindergarten. It was lovely and the teacher could barely hold back the tears. Z is reading very well for a lad of 5, also. Class of 2026, here he comes!
62 | Gus May 27, 2014 12:50:06pm |
Oh brother. “Do Personal Computers Come With NSA Surveillance Devices Built-In As Standard?” http://t.co/jfP7R9dP6s— Gus (@Gus_802) May 27, 2014
63 | Targetpractice May 27, 2014 12:50:23pm |
64 | Jack Burton May 27, 2014 12:50:44pm |
re: #39 gwangung
This assumes that we have expertise at nation building. I think everyone over-estimates our capability at this—-the batting average is far lower than what people think.
And we didn’t help ourselves diverting our attention to Iraq at a critical time.
The only time we’ve been good at nation-building was post WW2, and in that case we had fear of the Soviets coming in to do their own as a motivator.
We also had a top tax rate of 91-92% that kicked in at $200k (equivalent to about 1.9-2 million now) during the Marshall Plan years.
65 | Jack Burton May 27, 2014 12:51:05pm |
66 | Gus May 27, 2014 12:51:21pm |
67 | Justanotherhuman May 27, 2014 12:51:29pm |
The Trio of Republican Derp says,
Sens. John McCain, R-Ariz., Lindsey Graham, R-SC, and Kelly Ayotte, R-NH, on Afghanistan troop withdrawal: President Obama’s ‘decision to set an arbitrary date for the full withdrawal of US troops in Afghanistan is a monumental mistake and a triumph of politics over strategy’ - statement
End of alert
68 | Decatur Deb May 27, 2014 12:51:57pm |
re: #57 dog philosopher
Not going to give that putrid slavery-apologist a click, but I’m glad to finally know what I believe.
69 | Targetpractice May 27, 2014 12:52:09pm |
re: #67 Justanotherhuman
The Trio of Republican Derp says,
Sens. John McCain, R-Ariz., Lindsey Graham, R-SC, and Kelly Ayotte, R-NH, on Afghanistan troop withdrawal: President Obama’s ‘decision to set an arbitrary date for the full withdrawal of US troops in Afghanistan is a monumental mistake and a triumph of politics over strategy’ - statement
End of alert
Ah, the trio of Goofus, Doofus, and Mini-McCain.
70 | b.d. May 27, 2014 12:52:33pm |
re: #62 Gus
[Embedded content]
YES! AND CARS ALSO COME WITH A BUILT IN CLOCK THAT BREAKS THINGS AS SOON AS YOU GO OUT OF WARRANTY
71 | Rightwingconspirator May 27, 2014 12:52:55pm |
re: #48 Decatur Deb
Before you can build a nation you have to be sure that it isn’t already built to suit the inhabitants. Most people who wanted Afghanistan to be a modern western-oriented secular democracy are dead.
Yeah the Taliban killed most of them off before we invaded.
Look at what started to happen sixty years ago-
damnfreshpics.com
I don’t buy into the idea that the bulk of the population want Taliban/10th century lifestyle and politics. Certainly not the young women who want to read and get an education.
72 | Decatur Deb May 27, 2014 12:53:17pm |
re: #66 Gus
Ironically, Vox would have a think piece saying yes. So to speak.
Vox doesn’t live in Baja Alabama.
73 | Killgore Trout May 27, 2014 12:53:36pm |
re: #33 Gus
How is this a victory for the Taliban?
I disagree more with the tone of the Vox article than the actual content. The Taliban has been safe in Pakistan and I’m sure they’re happy that the Americans are leaving. They may not retake all of Afghanistan again but they’ll try.
74 | darthstar May 27, 2014 12:53:45pm |
re: #70 b.d.
YES! AND CARS ALSO COME WITH A BUILT IN CLOCK THAT BREAKS THINGS AS SOON AS YOU GO OUT OF WARRANTY
Nice features…how long will it last?
Oh, 36 months or 30,000 miles…whichever comes first.
75 | b.d. May 27, 2014 12:53:49pm |
re: #70 b.d.
YES! AND CARS ALSO COME WITH A BUILT IN CLOCK THAT BREAKS THINGS AS SOON AS YOU GO OUT OF WARRANTY
AND SOME OF THE NEWER BUILDINGS ARE BEING BUILT PREWIRED FOR DEMOLITION!
//
76 | Bulworth May 27, 2014 12:53:59pm |
Do our personal computers now come with NSA-spyware? Hey, man, we’re just asking questions!!!1
77 | Minor_L May 27, 2014 12:54:28pm |
re: #51 Charles Johnson
Raimondo is crazy. He has zero credibility on anything, and is maybe more agenda-driven than Greenwald himself. Greenwald seriously citing to him is hilarious.
I am also tired of digby’s knee jerk Greenwald defense on everything (which, a lot of times, amounts to “I know you are, but what am I?”). She is a smart lady, but she seems to have become one of the sycophants. I thought she was better than that.
78 | Kragar May 27, 2014 12:54:53pm |
79 | Justanotherhuman May 27, 2014 12:57:03pm |
Haha, the 4 yr old was with me and on entering the school house and taking a small tour, said, “I want to teach.” Just out of the blue.
He wants to go to school so badly he can taste it. Hopefully, that will happen soon w/daycare since he’ll be 5-1/2 when he enters kindergarten, another 1-1/2 yrs.
80 | Decatur Deb May 27, 2014 12:57:05pm |
re: #71 Rightwingconspirator
Yeah the Taliban killed most of them off before we invaded.
I don’t buy into the idea that the bulk of the population want Taliban/10th century lifestyle and politics. Certainly not the young women who want to read and get an education.
The Taliban are latecomers—they were welcomed as a stabilizing force after the chaos the Russians left behind. I’m not volunteering to do a door-to-door opinion poll in Helmand province.
81 | Killgore Trout May 27, 2014 12:57:44pm |
Meanwhile in Nigeria
83 | EPR-radar May 27, 2014 12:59:16pm |
re: #64 Jack Burton
The only time we’ve been good at nation-building was post WW2, and in that case we had fear of the Soviets coming in to do their own as a motivator.
We also had a top tax rate of 91-92% that kicked in at $200k (equivalent to about 1.9-2 million now) during the Marshall Plan years.
Post WWII reconstruction in Europe was a vastly easier mission than nation building in Afghanistan.
84 | Jack Burton May 27, 2014 1:00:32pm |
re: #62 Gus
Oh brother. “Do Personal Computers Come With NSA Surveillance Devices Built-In As Standard?”
No. Next question dudebros.
85 | Justanotherhuman May 27, 2014 1:01:38pm |
Indeed.
Obama: “Afghanistan will not be a perfect place, and it's not America's responsibility to make it one.” It's up to Afghans, he adds.— David Nakamura (@DavidNakamura) May 27, 2014
86 | sagehen May 27, 2014 1:01:39pm |
The Europeans actually know something about construction, having done it the first time, so helping them re-do it was just a matter of supplying materials and some accountants to keep tabs on the payroll.
87 | Gus May 27, 2014 1:02:14pm |
re: #73 Killgore Trout
I disagree more with the tone of the Vox article than the actual content. The Taliban has been safe in Pakistan and I’m sure they’re happy that the Americans are leaving. They may not retake all of Afghanistan again but they’ll try.
And before 9/11 the USA basically didn’t even care about what was going on in Afghanistan. I need not describe the situation Afghanistan was in prior to 9/11. The comparison between then and now is a mile wide as it is deep. Pakistan is from where they came. We were always allies with Pakistan throughout the GWOT. Pakistan is not averse to conducting military operations against Taliban and AQ within their borders. It’s been 13 years. One of the longest wars in the history of the USA. They have their own security and military force now. They have relatively free and democratic elections. The Taliban no longer rules the day in Afghanistan as they once did. This is hardly a victory for the Taliban. With the troops that remain it should be more than enough to plan for any known unknown military contingencies.
88 | Killgore Trout May 27, 2014 1:02:56pm |
The Burka Avenger: Pakistan’s Female Superhero!
Burka Avenger, produced by Unicorn Black is the first ever animated superhero series made in Pakistan. The protagonist of the show is Jiya, an inspirational school teacher whose alter ego is the super hero Burka Avenger. Her use of books and pens as weapons is symbolic on many levels. The Burka Avenger fights for Justice, Peace and Education for all.
89 | simoom May 27, 2014 1:05:09pm |
Semi-mangled Google translation from German Snowden Q&A:
[T]he accusation that cooperate with the Russian government, or even with the Russian secret service FSB, as is now the former KGB colonel Oleg Kalugin claims dismissed Snowden with sharply as “absurd” and “ridiculous” back. With the cancellation of his passport to him the U.S. had placed at his stopover in Moscow a year ago in fact a trap. “The U.S. knew that Russia was not my goal. And what could offer me the Russian government already?” If it were up to him for money, Snowden said he would accept only one of the numerous book deals or could he accept a board position in a digital company. If personal safety is his priority, “I would never have left Hawaii.” Oleg Kalugin was a defector who had betrayed his country “for a check” of the CIA.
Isn’t this crack by Snowden kind of bizarre? I guess he doesn’t consider himself a defector and he somehow feels he’s not being compensated by the Kremlin? Russian Security services are providing him constant body guards, the government is shielding him from criminal prosecution, and according to his Russian lawyer they set him up with a Russian social media “job” as of last November (a simple way to launder the source of his walking around money).
Also, isn’t there something truly off-key about Snowden attacking Russian defectors for their betrayal, simply because it makes it sound like he’s arguing for the wrong team? Shouldn’t he be celebrating his country’s human intelligence assets if he’s the loyal patriot he claims to be?
90 | Gus May 27, 2014 1:05:31pm |
It’s also rather absurd to think we’ll ever reach that perfect place in Afghanistan. You know. Afghanistan. Remember? Might take another 500 years… Carry on.
91 | Decatur Deb May 27, 2014 1:06:14pm |
re: #88 Killgore Trout
Quite neat. The telling will be in the proportion of Pakistani kids who get to see it.
92 | Gus May 27, 2014 1:06:38pm |
They’re still fighting FARC in Columbia and Brazil. They’re still fighting guerrillas in the Philippines.
93 | Justanotherhuman May 27, 2014 1:07:30pm |
Cannot imagine that anyone believes this bullshit. Of course, these people are concentrating strictly on radical Muslims, none other. Makes you wonder what others were on that panel and what they said, though, doesn’t it? Godwald is always looking for confirmation of his own views, not real discussion.
Was on a panel today w/a former French minister & intelligence official; both said terror threat is wildly exaggerated - inconceivable in US— Glenn Greenwald (@ggreenwald) May 27, 2014
94 | Killgore Trout May 27, 2014 1:07:56pm |
re: #87 Gus
With the troops that remain it should be more than enough to plan for any known unknown military contingencies.
Keep in mind the headline “White House: US will have 9800 troops in Afghanistan after 2014” is technically correct but misleading. By 2016 we’ll just have embassy security. The Taliban is more than happy to wait 2 more years and try their luck with the Afghan military.
95 | Backwoods_Sleuth May 27, 2014 1:08:36pm |
Today would have be conservationist Rachel Carson's 107th birthday. Learn more about her remarkable life here: http://t.co/c9lUQ8z6Sm
— US Dept of Interior (@Interior) May 27, 2014
96 | Killgore Trout May 27, 2014 1:09:16pm |
re: #91 Decatur Deb
Quite neat. The telling will be in the proportion of Pakistani kids who get to see it.
Here’s the website with videos and music
burkaavenger.com
97 | Shiplord Kirel May 27, 2014 1:09:52pm |
re: #93 Justanotherhuman
Cannot imagine that anyone believes this bullshit. Of course, these people are concentrating strictly on radical Muslims, none other. Makes you wonder what others were on that panel and what they said, though, doesn’t it? Godwald is always looking for confirmation of his own views, not real discussion.
Glenn Greenwald ✔ @ggreenwald
FollowWas on a panel today w/a former French minister & intelligence official; both said terror threat is wildly exaggerated - inconceivable in US
[Embedded content]
I wonder if GG believes the threat of unrest in Brazil is wildly exaggerated and the military campaign in the favelas therefore unjustified?
98 | klys May 27, 2014 1:09:53pm |
re: #94 Killgore Trout
Keep in mind the headline “White House: US will have 9800 troops in Afghanistan after 2014” is technically correct but misleading. By 2016 we’ll just have embassy security. The Taliban is more than happy to wait 2 more years and try their luck with the Afghan military.
So are you taking a position that we should just keep troops over there indefinitely?
As always, it’s hard to tell.
99 | Killgore Trout May 27, 2014 1:10:23pm |
Burka Avenger Episode 01 (w/ English Subtitles)
Youtube Video
The music is great
100 | b.d. May 27, 2014 1:10:34pm |
re: #93 Justanotherhuman
Cannot imagine that anyone believes this bullshit. Of course, these people are concentrating strictly on radical Muslims, none other. Makes you wonder what others were on that panel and what they said, though, doesn’t it? Godwald is always looking for confirmation of his own views, not real discussion.
[Embedded content]
LOL, I wonder if Glenn will get one of the Ignio Montoyabot tweets?
101 | Gus May 27, 2014 1:11:06pm |
re: #94 Killgore Trout
Keep in mind the headline “White House: US will have 9800 troops in Afghanistan after 2014” is technically correct but misleading. By 2016 we’ll just have embassy security. The Taliban is more than happy to wait 2 more years and try their luck with the Afghan military.
After the Soviets left Afghanistan we didn’t care one bit about Afghanistan. Is this a new tradition? Right now the USA has put a responsibility for Afghanistan that never existed prior to 9/11. The Taliban continues to launch there small attack to this day. It will continue. The Taliban is in no position militarily to launch a combat operation that will lead to the Afghanistan government as it is today. They will also be receiving assistance from our trade partner, China.
102 | blueraven May 27, 2014 1:11:47pm |
re: #20 Killgore Trout
Looks like Vox has decided on the click bait business model. I thought their article about “Putin has fallen into Obama’s clever trap” article was stupid clickbait too. So it looks like Vox is going to be a bit like Mediaite. Just a collection of outrage inducing clickbait without a partisan agenda. Some Clikcbait for the lefy, some clikcbait for the right. Meh, I was hoping for more. Oh well.
It was the same writer for both articles. Fisher is a hardliner who berated the strategy but was forced to admit that Obama’s strategy of wait and see in Ukraine was the right call.
the title was:
Obama’s plan to let Putin hang himself is working
Looks like he has reverted to form.
103 | Decatur Deb May 27, 2014 1:12:27pm |
re: #94 Killgore Trout
Keep in mind the headline “White House: US will have 9800 troops in Afghanistan after 2014” is technically correct but misleading. By 2016 we’ll just have embassy security. The Taliban is more than happy to wait 2 more years and try their luck with the Afghan military.
And if the experience of the NVA occupation of Ho Chi Min City is a predictor, Taliban Kabul will be a major supplier of something to Walmart by 2026.
104 | aagcobb May 27, 2014 1:12:56pm |
Murdoch rag New York Post blames young blond girl for California massacre because she didn’t realize Rodger had a secret crush on her, so she didn’t realize she needed to let him fuck her.
105 | Killgore Trout May 27, 2014 1:12:57pm |
re: #98 klys
So are you taking a position that we should just keep troops over there indefinitely?
As always, it’s hard to tell.
Nope. I just wish we’d done a better job.
106 | Gus May 27, 2014 1:13:37pm |
Wait 2 year and something might happen. Sure. Let’s assume a span of 2,000 years in the history of Afghanistan and warlords and the Taliban.
2/2,000 X 100 = and you’re looking at 0.1 percent of a 2,000 year span.
107 | Killgore Trout May 27, 2014 1:13:38pm |
re: #103 Decatur Deb
And if the experience of the NVA occupation of Ho Chi Min City is a predictor, Taliban Kabul will be a major supplier of something to Walmart by 2026.
lol
108 | Gus May 27, 2014 1:14:10pm |
109 | Gus May 27, 2014 1:14:29pm |
110 | klys May 27, 2014 1:14:45pm |
re: #105 Killgore Trout
Nope. I just wish we’d done a better job.
Ok. You wish that.
In the meantime, having family members who served over in Afghanistan, I’m going to cheer bringing the troops home.
111 | Gus May 27, 2014 1:14:56pm |
People that think we can KILL all the Taliban and Al Qaeda are delusional.
112 | Decatur Deb May 27, 2014 1:16:21pm |
re: #105 Killgore Trout
Nope. I just wish we’d done a better job.
You go to war with the corrupt local power structure you have, not the corrupt local power structure you might want.
113 | blueraven May 27, 2014 1:18:10pm |
re: #105 Killgore Trout
Nope. I just wish we’d done a better job.
You keep saying that, but fail to say how we could have done a better job, what you think we did wrong, and what we should do now.
Easy to criticize when you don’t have to put forth anything at all.
114 | Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut May 27, 2014 1:18:34pm |
re: #105 Killgore Trout
Nope. I just wish we’d done a better job.
It’s almost like attempting to democratize places is difficult and unpredictable or something.
115 | Jack Burton May 27, 2014 1:18:40pm |
re: #111 Gus
People that think we can KILL all the Taliban and Al Qaeda are delusional.
Go to Afghanistan and kill everyone.
116 | Gus May 27, 2014 1:19:24pm |
Why not go back to before 9/11 and the invasion. When the Taliban controlled almost every part of Afghanistan. When they stoned and executed women, and men, on a regular basis. When the Taliban would walk the street with the hands of men who had their hand chopped off for petty larceny. When women were oppressed beyond anything seen in modern times. When all of that was going on and the USA did not even care other than the minor blip of “Charlie Wilson’s war.” That Afghanistan? This isn’t a good enough job? Seeing people with the blue dye on their fingers and flipping the bird to the Taliban and uploading pics to Twitter? From Afghanistan directly? Not good enough?
117 | Rightwingconspirator May 27, 2014 1:21:50pm |
re: #116 Gus
Why not go back to before 9/11 and the invasion. When the Taliban controlled almost every part of Afghanistan. When they stoned and executed women, and men, on a regular basis. When the Taliban would walk the street with the hands of men who had their hand chopped off for petty larceny. When women were oppressed beyond anything seen in modern times. When all of that was going on and the USA did not even care other than the minor blip of “Charlie Wilson’s war.” That Afghanistan? This isn’t a good enough job? Seeing people with the blue dye on their fingers and flipping the bird to the Taliban and uploading pics to Twitter? From Afghanistan directly? Not good enough?
THIS. A hundred times, this.
118 | Killgore Trout May 27, 2014 1:25:33pm |
re: #108 Gus
What better job?
I would have preferred we leave behind a stable democracy. I’m not expecting perfection but something along the lines of Iraq. Sure, stuff blows up sometimes, there’s a bit of ethnic/religious tension but the government is stable and not in danger of collapsing or being overthrown. I don;t think we’re leaving behind a stable government in Afghanistan.
119 | Gus May 27, 2014 1:26:13pm |
Another thing too was that there was no surge under Bush. The surge in Afghanistan was prompted by Obama. Combat operations and boots on the ground spiked up considerably.
120 | lawhawk May 27, 2014 1:27:07pm |
re: #116 Gus
Or the Taliban destroying the cultural heritage of 2,000+ years of being at the crossroads of cultures and religion on the Silk Road; the Bamiyan Buddhas.
Those statutes and cultural artifacts were a potential revenue source for tourism, but they blew them to smithereens. In fact, it was the destruction of the Buddhas that got some people to recognize just how extreme the Taliban were.
Efforts to rebuild them are believed to be a way to get more money flowing into the region and build up a tourism industry there.
121 | Gus May 27, 2014 1:27:22pm |
re: #118 Killgore Trout
I would have preferred we leave behind a stable democracy. I’m not expecting perfection but something along the lines of Iraq. Sure, stuff blows up sometimes, there’s a bit of ethnic/religious tension but the government is stable and not in danger of collapsing or being overthrown. I don;t think we’re leaving behind a stable government in Afghanistan.
We don’t even have a stable democracy in New Jersey and Louisiana. Tough job trying to create a stable democracy that came from one of the most primitive states in the 21st century.
122 | simoom May 27, 2014 1:27:30pm |
re: #62 Gus
[Embedded content]
“[A]ny headline which ends in a question mark can be answered by the word “no”. The reason why journalists use that style of headline is that they know the story is probably bullshit, and don’t actually have the sources and facts to back it up, but still want to run it.”
123 | klys May 27, 2014 1:28:50pm |
re: #121 Gus
We don’t even have a stable democracy in New Jersey and Louisiana. Tough job trying to create a stable democracy that came from one of the most primitive states in the 21st century.
We can’t even hold off our religious extremists here and we’re supposed to do a better job in Afghanistan.
Right.
124 | Gus May 27, 2014 1:29:21pm |
The other argument for creating a traditionally American POV. We should have created a puppet government in Afghanistan?
125 | Kragar May 27, 2014 1:29:45pm |
Ever notice that when anyone suggests unstable people don't need guns, guns right folks automatically assume you mean them @JohnFugelsang— Kragar (@Kragar_LGF) May 27, 2014
126 | wrenchwench May 27, 2014 1:29:46pm |
re: #95 Backwoods_Sleuth
[Embedded content]
Well, shit. What a lovely day for a malathion spill in the driveway. The spiller, who was spraying under the empty house next door so some guys could go under it and repair a joist, didn’t notice his hose had sprung a leak until Mr. w yelled at him. Mr. w started taking photos and asking what the spiller was going to do about it. Started out with ‘oh, it’s nothing’, and after a visit from the code enforcement officer, he’s now filling boxes with dirt. Mr. w took him a glass of ice water.
I read Silent Spring in 1970 or so.
127 | Decatur Deb May 27, 2014 1:29:58pm |
re: #120 lawhawk
Or the Taliban destroying the cultural heritage of 2,000+ years of being at the crossroads of cultures and religion on the Silk Road; the Bamiyan Buddhas.
Those statutes and cultural artifacts were a potential revenue source for tourism, but they blew them to smithereens. In fact, it was the destruction of the Buddhas that got some people to recognize just how extreme the Taliban were.
Efforts to rebuild them are believed to be a way to get more money flowing into the region and build up a tourism industry there.
We didn’t pretend to go there for Buddha, or to build a democracy. We went to get Osama’s ass, and when that was over, we should have packed out.
128 | Justanotherhuman May 27, 2014 1:31:02pm |
Oh, this is so tiresome. Dudesis Margaret Sullivan, over at the NYT on the “Public Editor’s Journal”, thinks, I suppose, that we no longer live in a democracy, and it’s OK for one fucking person, not elected by anyone to have the final say about publication of government secrets.
And Godwald is, of course, pushing this, having tweeted out the link to it, in his attempt to smear Kinsley, who said,
“In a democracy (which, pace Greenwald, we still are), that decision must ultimately be made by the government. No doubt the government will usually be overprotective of its secrets, and so the process of decision-making — whatever it turns out to be — should openly tilt in favor of publication with minimal delay. But ultimately you can’t square this circle. Someone gets to decide, and that someone cannot be Glenn Greenwald.”
129 | Killgore Trout May 27, 2014 1:31:44pm |
re: #121 Gus
We don’t even have a stable democracy in New Jersey and Louisiana. Tough job trying to create a stable democracy that came from one of the most primitive states in the 21st century.
I think the largest obstacle has been Pakistan. Afghanistan doesn’t stand a chance with them as a neighbor. Like I said, maybe it was an unsolvable problem but I wish we’d done better. But what do I know, maybe it’ll be fine.
130 | bratwurst May 27, 2014 1:31:45pm |
131 | goddamnedfrank May 27, 2014 1:33:11pm |
re: #119 Gus
Another thing too was that there was no surge under Bush. The surge in Afghanistan was prompted by Obama. Combat operations and boots on the ground spiked up considerably.
Even the Surge in Iraq took credit for work primarily done by the Sunni Awakening Councils.
132 | Killgore Trout May 27, 2014 1:33:21pm |
133 | Gus May 27, 2014 1:33:36pm |
re: #129 Killgore Trout
I think the largest obstacle has been Pakistan. Afghanistan doesn’t stand a chance with them as a neighbor. Like I said, maybe it was an unsolvable problem but I wish we’d done better. But what do I know, maybe it’ll be fine.
Before 9/11 Pakistan and India were almost at the brink of a nuclear war.
134 | Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut May 27, 2014 1:38:11pm |
re: #116 Gus
Why not go back to before 9/11 and the invasion. When the Taliban controlled almost every part of Afghanistan. When they stoned and executed women, and men, on a regular basis. When the Taliban would walk the street with the hands of men who had their hand chopped off for petty larceny. When women were oppressed beyond anything seen in modern times. When all of that was going on and the USA did not even care other than the minor blip of “Charlie Wilson’s war.” That Afghanistan? This isn’t a good enough job? Seeing people with the blue dye on their fingers and flipping the bird to the Taliban and uploading pics to Twitter? From Afghanistan directly? Not good enough?
That was back when pretty much only leftists and feminists cared about Afghanistan.
135 | Gus May 27, 2014 1:40:04pm |
re: #134 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut
That was back when pretty much only leftists and feminists cared about Afghanistan.
Yep. Mostly feminists.
136 | Justanotherhuman May 27, 2014 1:40:44pm |
137 | Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut May 27, 2014 1:40:44pm |
re: #127 Decatur Deb
We didn’t pretend to go there for Buddha, or to build a democracy. We went to get Osama’s ass, and when that was over, we should have packed out.
One of the saddest things is how few people in Afghanistan have any clue why we were there in the first place. Total mystery to them.
138 | Decatur Deb May 27, 2014 1:43:50pm |
re: #137 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut
One of the saddest things is how few people in Afghanistan have any clue why we were there in the first place. Total mystery to them.
If the Taliban had violated their own inclinations and customs, handed him over, we wouldn’t have gone.
139 | Gus May 27, 2014 1:45:20pm |
re: #138 Decatur Deb
If the Taliban had violated their own inclinations and customs, handed him over, we wouldn’t have gone.
That was part of Bush’s plan. I remember. They asked. Requested. Warned. Threatened. Give up or we start bombing in 3, 2, 1…
140 | HappyWarrior May 27, 2014 1:47:25pm |
re: #135 Gus
Yep. Mostly feminists.
Yep and when guys like Dana Robarcher who now champion Putin loved them some Taliban.
141 | Dr Lizardo May 27, 2014 1:49:05pm |
re: #133 Gus
Before 9/11 Pakistan and India were almost at the brink of a nuclear war.
Interestingly vis-a-vis Pakistan and India, things seem to be off on a positive note between the respective PM’s.
I’ll keep my fingers crossed that they can settle whatever differences they have peacefully and amicably. Not easy matter, to be sure - but far better than the alternative.
142 | HappyWarrior May 27, 2014 1:52:23pm |
re: #141 Dr Lizardo
Interestingly vis-a-vis Pakistan and India, things seem to be off on a positive note between the respective PM’s.
I’ll keep my fingers crossed that they can settle whatever differences they have peacefully and amicably. Not easy matter, to be sure - but far better than the alternative.
Really hoping for the best knowing that India elected a guy described by many outlets as a Hindu nationalist.
143 | Gus May 27, 2014 1:53:34pm |
LOL, he complains about “cartoonish fabrications” then links to a story accusing someone of fellatio #nohomo https://t.co/QoF1t8SxyC— joshuafoust (@joshuafoust) May 27, 2014
144 | darthstar May 27, 2014 1:53:57pm |
145 | Decatur Deb May 27, 2014 1:53:58pm |
re: #141 Dr Lizardo
Interestingly vis-a-vis Pakistan and India, things seem to be off on a positive note between the respective PM’s.
I’ll keep my fingers crossed that they can settle whatever differences they have peacefully and amicably. Not easy matter, to be sure - but far better than the alternative.
WSJ video of the evening retreat ceremony at the India-Pakistan road crossing. Aggressive military posturing turned to ballet:
146 | Rightwingconspirator May 27, 2014 1:56:06pm |
So been scouring the internet for a whole bunch of stats and facts as relates to this gun control issue.
So far found one site I have not seen mentioned. Wondering if this site has a reputation good or bad?
More specifically
147 | Justanotherhuman May 27, 2014 2:01:34pm |
re: #146 Rightwingconspirator
So been scouring the internet for a whole bunch of stats and facts as relates to this gun control issue.
So far found one site I have not seen mentioned. Wondering if this site has a reputation good or bad?More specifically
Look at the “About” page which convinces me it slants conservative/libertarian. They even say so.
148 | Killgore Trout May 27, 2014 2:02:33pm |
re: #133 Gus
Before 9/11 Pakistan and India were almost at the brink of a nuclear war.
and terrorist attacks in Mumbai and Kashmir. India is large and stable enough to withstand having Pakistan as a neighbor. Afghanistan, not so much.
149 | Randall Gross May 27, 2014 2:04:05pm |
150 | Gus May 27, 2014 2:04:25pm |
151 | Justanotherhuman May 27, 2014 2:04:25pm |
So, Russia is running Crimea now, I’m assuming. If not, why didn’t Crimea make the announcement?
Russia: Parliamentary elections in Crimea will be held on 2nd Sunday of September 2014 - @BBCWillVernon
see original on twitter.com
152 | Randall Gross May 27, 2014 2:04:46pm |
153 | Rightwingconspirator May 27, 2014 2:05:33pm |
re: #147 Justanotherhuman
Yeah, I saw this, and thought Lott study. Uh oh right?
* A 1993 nationwide survey of 4,977 households found that over the previous five years, at least 0.5% of households had members who had used a gun for defense during a situation in which they thought someone “almost certainly would have been killed” if they “had not used a gun for protection.” Applied to the U.S. population, this amounts to 162,000 such incidents per year. This figure excludes all “military service, police work, or work as a security guard.”[12]
But no it’s based on this-This is just the start, too much to clip.
Paper: “Armed Resistance to Crime: The Prevalence and Nature of Self-Defense with a Gun.” By Gary Kleck and Marc Gertz. Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology, Fall 1995. law.northwestern.edu
So much advocacy, so little straight data
154 | Rightwingconspirator May 27, 2014 2:08:00pm |
re: #147 Justanotherhuman
Then this
DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE STUDIES CONCERNING DEFENSIVE GUN USES
DOJ study reported 83,000 annual defensive gun uses from 1987-1992. During same period, there were more than 135,000 total gun deaths and injuries in the U.S. annually.
ojp.usdoj.gov
155 | Justanotherhuman May 27, 2014 2:09:24pm |
You tell ‘em, Michelle.
Michelle Obama: ‘Unacceptable’ for House Republicans to consider changes to 2010 child nutrition law - @CNN
Read more on blogs.cnn.com
156 | Backwoods_Sleuth May 27, 2014 2:09:49pm |
re: #153 Rightwingconspirator
Yeah, I saw this, and thought Lott study. Uh oh right?
But no it’s based on this-This is just the start, too much to clip.
Does that include Stand Your Ground people?
157 | Rightwingconspirator May 27, 2014 2:10:18pm |
re: #156 Backwoods_Sleuth
I think the data is older than that.
158 | b.d. May 27, 2014 2:10:35pm |
ok
AMARILLO — A beef-loving lady has set a new record after downing two 72-ounce steaks in less than 15 minutes.
159 | HappyWarrior May 27, 2014 2:11:17pm |
160 | Rightwingconspirator May 27, 2014 2:11:43pm |
re: #156 Backwoods_Sleuth
Then ya get this- At Just Facts
* A U.S. Justice Department study based on crime data from 1974-1985 found:
• 42% of Americans will be the victim of a completed violent crime (assault, robbery, rape) in the course of their lives
• 83% of Americans will be the victim of an attempted or completed violent crime
• 52% of Americans will be the victim of an attempted or completed violent crime more than once[24]
from
[24] Report: “Lifetime Likelihood of Victimization.” By Herbert Koppel. Bureau of Justice Statistics, U.S. Department of Justice, March 1987.
161 | Backwoods_Sleuth May 27, 2014 2:12:23pm |
re: #156 Backwoods_Sleuth
Does that include Stand Your Ground people?
OK. We’ve had Castle Doctrine here in Kentucky for a very long time and I know some of those cases are kinda hinky, especially some cases even before Castle Doctrine was codified here.
162 | Dr Lizardo May 27, 2014 2:13:50pm |
re: #145 Decatur Deb
WSJ video of the evening retreat ceremony at the India-Pakistan road crossing. Aggressive military posturing turned to ballet:
Cool.
I found this poking around on the intertubes. I went to this back in 2011; it was at the o2 Arena in Berlin. The annual Tattoo - military bands and marching. I’m not a militarist - not by any means - but I do enjoy a good show, and I have respect for soldiers, regardless of where they’re from; after all, they are human beings, just like all of us.
This is the only kind of ‘combat’ I can approve of wholeheartedly.
163 | Rightwingconspirator May 27, 2014 2:14:19pm |
re: #161 Backwoods_Sleuth
Castle doctrine? That goes back to the late 1800’s. SCOTUS “In your home, on your land and ay your place of business” if slightly paraphrased. Did state law go beyond that?
164 | wrenchwench May 27, 2014 2:14:21pm |
re: #147 Justanotherhuman
Look at the “About” page which convinces me it slants conservative/libertarian. They even say so.
Two founders. Here’s one.
Jersey Conservative
An ongoing discussion about conservatism in New Jersey.
James D. Agresti (Contributor)
James Agresti | theblaze.com
James D. Agresti is a former atheist who became a Christian after reading the Bible from cover to cover and finding objective evidence for its accuracy.
Does the Obama mandate force you to pay for abortions?
by James D. AgrestiFri Mar 01, 2013 17:42 EST
Tags: barack obama, ella, hhs mandate, morning-after pillWASHINGTON, D.C., March 1, 2013, (Just the Facts Daily) - In a recent National Public Radio broadcast and accompanying article entitled “Morning-After Pills Don’t Cause Abortion, Studies Say,” NPR journalist Julie Rovner reported that the Obama administration’s contraceptive mandate doesn’t force people to pay for abortion-inducing drugs. The article focuses on drugs commonly known as “morning-after” pills, which actually can be used to stop pregnancy for up to three-to-five days after unprotected sex.
Rovner’s argument consists of two major points: the first is that blocking the implantation of fertilized eggs does not constitute abortion, and the second is that morning-after pills do not block the implantation of fertilized eggs. Both of these claims are built upon half-truths and outright falsehoods that become evident through a comprehensive look at the scientific facts.
He’s a lying sob and/or a moran. I won’t bother with the other guy.
165 | Rightwingconspirator May 27, 2014 2:16:08pm |
re: #164 wrenchwench
I’m not bothering with their conclusions. Just the facts as cited and linked to source. Looks thorough.
166 | kirkspencer May 27, 2014 2:16:40pm |
re: #146 Rightwingconspirator
So been scouring the internet for a whole bunch of stats and facts as relates to this gun control issue.
So far found one site I have not seen mentioned. Wondering if this site has a reputation good or bad?More specifically
I used their Global Warming page to evaluate. I followed up with reading the taxation page. I am not impressed.
168 | danarchy May 27, 2014 2:17:27pm |
169 | Justanotherhuman May 27, 2014 2:17:46pm |
re: #158 b.d.
ok
Whoa, body abuse. She’s going to die with kidney failure if she keeps that up. That’s 9 lbs of mostly protein, not counting the shrimp. The 2 potatoes and rolls don’t begin to even it out. Gluttony, thy name is “competitive eating”.
And 363 wings in Jan? Cheeeez. I can barely eat 5 or 6.
170 | Backwoods_Sleuth May 27, 2014 2:17:48pm |
re: #163 Rightwingconspirator
Castle doctrine? That goes back to the late 1800’s. SCOTUS “In your home, on your land and ay your place of business” if slightly paraphrased. Did state law go beyond that?
Here in Kentucky, Castle Doctrine was formally codified in 2006.
oops, forgot the PDF link
lrc.ky.gov
171 | b.d. May 27, 2014 2:18:33pm |
re: #168 danarchy
Sweet Jesus, apparently 9 pounds of steak wasn’t good enough.
“But it wasn’t just the steak— Molly Schuyler also ate the sides, including two servings of shrimp, two baked potatoes and two dinner rolls.”
From the comments:
James Anthony * Top Commenter * Dallas / Fort Worth, TX
If my calculations are correct, that is 9lbs of meat.. She ate a large baby in 15 minutes so that is scary.. A bit
172 | wrenchwench May 27, 2014 2:19:09pm |
re: #165 Rightwingconspirator
I’m not bothering with their conclusions. Just the facts as cited and linked to source. Looks thorough.
Looks like a pack of lies to me. I wouldn’t trust anything that man said or linked to.
173 | Pie-onist Overlord May 27, 2014 2:19:47pm |
WTF
Truck #pursuit now in #Temecula. Chase started an hour ago in Ontario, police say http://t.co/rw4pQr9euq— NBC Los Angeles (@NBCLA) May 27, 2014
174 | Justanotherhuman May 27, 2014 2:19:53pm |
re: #160 Rightwingconspirator
Surprised everyone doesn’t just leave the US, considering that bullshit.
1987? Fer cryin’ out loud.
175 | kirkspencer May 27, 2014 2:21:10pm |
re: #165 Rightwingconspirator
I’m not bothering with their conclusions. Just the facts as cited and linked to source. Looks thorough.
It’s thorough, and they don’t mis-cite. However, it’s selective. Taking global warming for an example, the ‘basic’ is split about 50-50 between acceptance and refutation citations. The advanced pushes that to roughly 2/3 anti. Most typically, the IPCC and other acceptance data is posted, then the site posts a range of ‘refutation’ citations. None of the latter are challenged.
176 | Pie-onist Overlord May 27, 2014 2:22:30pm |
This guy is just showing off his dump trucking driving skills now http://t.co/5MecXYJCJe— Michael Rusch (@weeddude) May 27, 2014
177 | Rightwingconspirator May 27, 2014 2:23:19pm |
re: #172 wrenchwench
Looks like a pack of lies to me. I wouldn’t trust anything that man said or linked to.
Yeah, moving on. Time consuming but I can pull from FBI/Pew/DOJ myself.
178 | Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut May 27, 2014 2:23:53pm |
re: #165 Rightwingconspirator
I’m not bothering with their conclusions. Just the facts as cited and linked to source. Looks thorough.
Most of their stuff about guns is based on self-assessed surveys, which is not very reliable.
179 | kirkspencer May 27, 2014 2:24:11pm |
re: #175 kirkspencer
Minor correction. “none are challenged” is incorrect. There are a few refutations that are in turn rebutted. An example of this is the Watts project to show the warming is due to urban island weather stations. The fact a specific study was made and showed the impact was immaterial is noted.
This is an exception to the site’s tendencies.
180 | Gus May 27, 2014 2:25:38pm |
re: #173 Pie-onist Overlord
WTF
[Embedded content]
Cue the “we must ban trucks” derp from the usual suspects.
181 | Rightwingconspirator May 27, 2014 2:25:55pm |
re: #178 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut
Yeah, not looking good. This is where the cut off of research $$ hurts the discussion terribly.
182 | Dr Lizardo May 27, 2014 2:26:30pm |
re: #173 Pie-onist Overlord
WTF
[Embedded content]
Why on earth would someone steal an empty container?
183 | Backwoods_Sleuth May 27, 2014 2:27:02pm |
184 | Rightwingconspirator May 27, 2014 2:27:26pm |
re: #175 kirkspencer
It’s thorough, and they don’t mis-cite. However, it’s selective. Taking global warming for an example, the ‘basic’ is split about 50-50 between acceptance and refutation citations. The advanced pushes that to roughly 2/3 anti. Most typically, the IPCC and other acceptance data is posted, then the site posts a range of ‘refutation’ citations. None of the latter are challenged.
Selective is almost all there is on both sides. Just finding one well linked to sources was a welcome change, if brief.
185 | Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut May 27, 2014 2:28:10pm |
re: #179 kirkspencer
That site has some weird and extreme problems:
Page 2: “The estimates of lifetime likelihood of victimization are derived under the assumption that, throughout their lifetimes, people in the U.S. have incurred, and will continue to incur, criminal victimization at the same annual rates as were observed in the years 1975 through 1984.”
Crime rates in the US:
Image: ldah6rdp6ukvngoyqi1fcg.gif
That is a very bad assumption to make.
186 | Dr Lizardo May 27, 2014 2:28:39pm |
187 | Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut May 27, 2014 2:28:54pm |
re: #181 Rightwingconspirator
Yeah, not looking good. This is where the cut off of research $$ hurts the discussion terribly.
I’m not sure what numbers you’re trying to actually look for. If it’s “People actually defending themselves against violent assault with a gun”, that number isn’t possible to obtain.
188 | klys May 27, 2014 2:29:23pm |
re: #185 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut
That site has some weird and extreme problems:
Crime rates in the US:
Image: ldah6rdp6ukvngoyqi1fcg.gif
That is a very bad assumption to make.
I was going to put together my list of the quick questions that came up just on the cursory overview I did, but eh.
189 | wrenchwench May 27, 2014 2:31:01pm |
re: #165 Rightwingconspirator
I’m not bothering with their conclusions. Just the facts as cited and linked to source. Looks thorough.
Here are the man’s own words:
Although views about when pregnancy begins vary among medical professionals, the science of embryology is clear that the genetic composition of preborn humans is formed at the point of fertilization, and as the textbook Molecular Biology explains, this genetic information is “the very basis of life itself.” It also determines gender, eye color, hair color, facial features, and it influences characteristics such as intelligence and personality. Hence, a unique human life is formed at fertilization, and Wood’s point that “half of fertilized eggs never stick around” is as relevant to the issue of abortion as the statement that “all people eventually die” is relevant to the issue of homicide. At its core, this is about the difference between actively ending a life and nature taking its course.
The guy has a fucking BS in fucking Mechanical Engineering, yet claims to know enough to remove a woman’s human rights to bodily autonomy in deference to a fertilized egg.
Not intending any offense to you, but that man is today’s last straw for me to get really fucking mad (in case you couldn’t tell) about men telling women what they can do if they get pregnant.
190 | Pie-onist Overlord May 27, 2014 2:31:23pm |
I can’t stop watching this truck chase. It looks like the guy is heading for the border.
191 | piratedan May 27, 2014 2:31:59pm |
re: #93 Justanotherhuman
well the French would know, they’ve been spying on the West for years…. ///////
192 | Gus May 27, 2014 2:33:10pm |
re: #190 Pie-onist Overlord
I can’t stop watching this truck chase. It looks like the guy is heading for the border.
Smokey and the Bandit music playing in your head?
193 | Pie-onist Overlord May 27, 2014 2:33:25pm |
OMG HOW DARE YOU SNEER AT TEH GREAT GREENWALD, TEH GREATEST JOURNALIST OF ALL TIME!!!!! MY PEARLS I MUST CLUTCH THEM AS I FAINT!!!!!! TEH SNEERING!!!! OH YOU YOU AAAHHHHHH (faints!)
talkingpointsmemo.com
194 | Rightwingconspirator May 27, 2014 2:33:33pm |
re: #187 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut
I’m not sure what numbers you’re trying to actually look for. If it’s “People actually defending themselves against violent assault with a gun”, that number isn’t possible to obtain.
Heh, the “number” is easy to find. A consensus or generally accepted number is what’s impossible to find. Not enough good data apparently. But that is maybe 1% of the numbers I seek.
This for example I would think of as an acceptable number to cite.
11,101 FATAL AND 467,300 NONFATAL FIREARM VICTIMIZATIONS OCCURRED IN 2011
WASHINGTON-Firearm-related homicides declined 39 percent and nonfatal firearm crimes declined 69 percent from 1993 to 2011, the Justice Department’s Bureau of Justice Statistics (BJS) announced today. Firearm-related homicides dropped from 18,253 homicides in 1993 to 11,101 in 2011, and nonfatal firearm crimes dropped from 1.5 million victimizations in 1993 to 467,300 in 2011.
For both fatal and nonfatal firearm victimizations, the majority of the decline occurred during the 10-year period from 1993 to 2002. The number of firearm homicides declined from 1993 to 1999, rose through 2006 and then declined through 2011. Nonfatal firearm violence declined from 1993 through 2004 before fluctuating in the mid- to late 2000s.
195 | klys May 27, 2014 2:33:39pm |
re: #189 wrenchwench
Here are the man’s own words:
The guy has a fucking BS in fucking Mechanical Engineering, yet claims to know enough to remove a woman’s human rights to bodily autonomy in deference to a fertilized egg.
Not intending any offense to you, but that man is today’s last straw for me to get really fucking mad (in case you couldn’t tell) about men telling women what they can do if they get pregnant.
But that’s just the facts, you know.
////
196 | Rightwingconspirator May 27, 2014 2:34:23pm |
re: #189 wrenchwench
Like I said, moving on. Not going to use that source at all.
197 | wrenchwench May 27, 2014 2:35:02pm |
Once more, in an attempt to get it out of my system.
A fucking BS in fucking Mechanical Engineering.
No offense to any mechanical engineers who may be reading, but you better not mention my uterus where I can hear you.
198 | wrenchwench May 27, 2014 2:35:32pm |
re: #196 Rightwingconspirator
Like I said, moving on. Not going to use that source at all.
I know. I’m trying to move on.
Maybe I’ll go fix a dirty bike.
199 | thedopefishlives May 27, 2014 2:35:56pm |
Afternoon Lizardim from the hot and rainy wild north country. How go things among the lizardfolk?
200 | Rightwingconspirator May 27, 2014 2:35:57pm |
re: #197 wrenchwench
Once more, in an attempt to get it out of my system.
A fucking BS in fucking Mechanical Engineering.
No offense to any mechanical engineers who may be reading, but you better not mention my uterus where I can hear you.
Genuinely sorry to have brought in such upsetting material. :-(
201 | klys May 27, 2014 2:36:07pm |
re: #197 wrenchwench
Once more, in an attempt to get it out of my system.
A fucking BS in fucking Mechanical Engineering.
No offense to any mechanical engineers who may be reading, but you better not mention my uterus where I can hear you.
Some engineers suffer from this delusion that because they are somewhat smart in one field, that makes them experts in all, because they are smart.
202 | thedopefishlives May 27, 2014 2:37:09pm |
re: #201 klys
Some engineers suffer from this delusion that because they are somewhat smart in one field, that makes them experts in all, because they are smart.
And so was born Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth (which has very few high-rise architects or structural engineers on its petition).
203 | Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut May 27, 2014 2:37:10pm |
re: #194 Rightwingconspirator
Heh, the “number” is easy to find. A consensus or generally accepted number is what’s impossible to find. Not enough good data apparently. But that is maybe 1% of the numbers I seek.
No, that’s not a possible number to actually obtain. There is no credible way to arrive at that number.
This for example I would think of as an acceptable number to cite.
That number isn’t related to “”People actually defending themselves against violent assault with a gun”.
Broad-based victim stats are also useless for any individual assessment. The likelihood of a young black male in Oakland being murdered with a handgun is an order of magnitude higher than a young white male in Marin County.
Most people are not at high risk of violent victimization, and most of the risk comes from loved ones, where having a gun would be of extremely dubious value.
People, unfortunately, have a completely skewed perception of crime rates in this country, and their own risk of victimization. It’s the duty of anyone who knows the truth to spread that, and to dissuade people who are buying a gun for ‘self defense’ even though they live in a very safe area.
204 | Decatur Deb May 27, 2014 2:39:20pm |
re: #197 wrenchwench
Once more, in an attempt to get it out of my system.
A fucking BS in fucking Mechanical Engineering.
No offense to any mechanical engineers who may be reading, but you better not mention my uterus where I can hear you.
Mechanical engineer working within his field:
205 | Rightwingconspirator May 27, 2014 2:39:35pm |
re: #187 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut
. If it’s “People actually defending themselves against violent assault with a gun”, that number isn’t possible to obtain.
Right the only number one might get would be sifting some great number of Police reports. Even that would under report. It would be a good number to have of course but it is what it is.
206 | Gus May 27, 2014 2:39:38pm |
re: #197 wrenchwench
Once more, in an attempt to get it out of my system.
A fucking BS in fucking Mechanical Engineering.
No offense to any mechanical engineers who may be reading, but you better not mention my uterus where I can hear you.
Not unlike people with journalism degrees
207 | klys May 27, 2014 2:39:53pm |
re: #202 thedopefishlives
And so was born Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth (which has very few high-rise architects or structural engineers on its petition).
One of the things I learned from my dad is that being smart just means you can learn things more readily if you do the indepth research required for actual understanding.
One of the things I learned from my Ph.D. advisor is that no matter how smart, you need to play devil’s advocate in your head about something ALL THE TIME, because we are all prone to confirmation bias.
208 | A Mom Anon May 27, 2014 2:39:53pm |
re: #197 wrenchwench
If we weren’t both already married, I’d totally propose to you right now, lol. Or if I lived closer, I’d bake you some cupcakes. Something.
209 | klys May 27, 2014 2:40:32pm |
re: #208 A Mom Anon
If we weren’t both already married, I’d totally propose to you right now, lol. Or if I lived closer, I’d bake you some cupcakes. Something.
We are the Platonic Sisterhood of the Travelling Lizard.
Or something.
210 | Rightwingconspirator May 27, 2014 2:41:42pm |
re: #203 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut
No, that’s not a possible number to actually obtain. There is no credible way to arrive at that number.
I was trying to be lighthearted, as in you can get lots of numbers (Lotts?) just can’t get good reliable numbers.
The absence of that number is a great disadvantage to fair discussion about self defense and guns.
211 | Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut May 27, 2014 2:42:52pm |
re: #205 Rightwingconspirator
Right the only number one might get would be sifting some great number of Police reports. Even that would under report. It would be a good number to have of course but it is what it is.
That might over-report, too. There’s no reason to assume under-reporting.
212 | dog philosopher May 27, 2014 2:43:04pm |
re: #201 klys
Some engineers suffer from this delusion that because they are somewhat smart in one field, that makes them experts in all, because they are smart.
i promise to make no observations on organs of the body unless they have usb ports
213 | Gus May 27, 2014 2:43:11pm |
@ArrogantDemon @Gus_802 but this spoils our plans for world dominat— er free internet! ;)— Linksys (@Linksys) May 27, 2014
214 | klys May 27, 2014 2:43:47pm |
re: #212 dog philosopher
i promise to make no observations on organs of the body unless they have usb ports
Maybe you can explain then why I inevitably have to try three times to insert a USB stick when there are only two sides.
215 | darthstar May 27, 2014 2:44:05pm |
@robertcaruso @Gus_802 Dear god…GG was carrying the docs around on an off the shelf Windows 8 machine? My 11yo niece probably has copies.— Sean McCabe (@darthstar99) May 27, 2014
216 | Dr Lizardo May 27, 2014 2:44:15pm |
217 | Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut May 27, 2014 2:44:45pm |
re: #210 Rightwingconspirator
I was trying to be lighthearted, as in you can get lots of numbers (Lotts?) just can’t get good reliable numbers.
The absence of that number is a great disadvantage to fair discussion about self defense and guns.
Not really. It isn’t a necessary number, as I said. National numbers have no relevance to individual situations, and once you drilled down to the level of the actual situation—where the person lived and worked—the data would be too shallow anyway.
What we do have is relatively solid numbers on violent crimes. Most people, unfortunately, are wildly misinformed about this, so we get a lot of people buying guns for ‘self defense’ based on a very incorrect assumption about their risk. It’s too bad, and people who are experts on guns should be doing what they can to educate these people about their actual risks.
218 | Decatur Deb May 27, 2014 2:45:18pm |
re: #214 klys
Maybe you can explain then why I inevitably have to try three times to insert a USB stick when there are only two sides.
They like a bit of foreplay.
219 | dog philosopher May 27, 2014 2:45:22pm |
re: #214 klys
Maybe you can explain then why I inevitably have to try three times to insert a USB stick when there are only two sides.
demonic possession, of course
220 | calochortus May 27, 2014 2:45:38pm |
re: #189 wrenchwench
Here are the man’s own words:
The guy has a fucking BS in fucking Mechanical Engineering, yet claims to know enough to remove a woman’s human rights to bodily autonomy in deference to a fertilized egg.
Not intending any offense to you, but that man is today’s last straw for me to get really fucking mad (in case you couldn’t tell) about men telling women what they can do if they get pregnant.
Gee, I’m a genetically unique individual myself. May I tap into this idiot’s blood supply? Borrow a kidney? I thought not.
Oh wait. Only women have to put up with this.
221 | Pie-onist Overlord May 27, 2014 2:46:20pm |
The guy got out of the truck and he ran into a convenience store.
222 | thedopefishlives May 27, 2014 2:46:42pm |
re: #221 Pie-onist Overlord
The guy got out of the truck and he ran into a convenience store.
Wait, wtf is going on now?
223 | klys May 27, 2014 2:48:24pm |
re: #217 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut
We’ve had our house broken into, twice. Both times while we were out of town, both times probably local kids (the PS3 was stolen twice (got it back once!) and I lost a laptop).
After the second one (coming home from my grandfather’s funeral), my response was to demand something. A security system.
There’s also pepper spray, and I have the remote to trigger the security system in the office (where I spend most of the time when I’m home by myself).
Even after installation and monitoring costs for three years, we’re still probably only talking about the cost of one handgun …not to mention the safe, range time to be comfortable using it and maintaining those skills - for both of us - and if I have to fumble for it in the safe while someone is breaking in, plus then the years of therapy afterwards …no, I’m pretty happy with my security system. I know the police will show (thanks, cleaning ladies!).
224 | Rightwingconspirator May 27, 2014 2:49:06pm |
re: #203 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut
Please keep in mind I’m after a bunch of numbers. At this time I’m not relating any. When I have gathered enough data that would be appropriate in the discussion, I’ll be happy to address the self defense motivation with you and what we each might like to see. Cool?
225 | dog philosopher May 27, 2014 2:49:07pm |
re: #221 Pie-onist Overlord
The guy got out of the truck and he ran into a convenience store.
he saw the “escape-from-police-pursuit-2-for-one-special” sign
226 | Kragar May 27, 2014 2:49:49pm |
re: #221 Pie-onist Overlord
The guy got out of the truck and he ran into a convenience store.
They’ll never find him in there!
227 | klys May 27, 2014 2:49:59pm |
re: #223 klys
Also, a gun would not remind us that we forgot to close the bathroom window again, and would not defend the house against robbery theft if we had it mostly closed but not locked.
*Edited because terms.
229 | Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut May 27, 2014 2:51:35pm |
re: #224 Rightwingconspirator
Please keep in mind I’m after a bunch of numbers. At this time I’m not relating any. When I have gathered enough data that would be appropriate in the discussion, I’ll be happy to address the self defense motivation with you and what we each might like to see. Cool?
Well, we already have enough data for most of the conversation: We have county-level crime data, often neighborhood level. It is not hard to assess someone’s risk of violent assault in the home. Most people actually live in very safe areas, and are not at high risk of victimization.
I’m really unsure what number it is you’re looking for, and again, if you’re looking for “Used a gun in defense against a violent crime”, that number is not something that will ever be obtainable.
230 | Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut May 27, 2014 2:52:06pm |
re: #227 klys
Also, a gun would not remind us that we forgot to close the bathroom window again, and would not defend the house against
robberytheft if we had it mostly closed but not locked.*Edited because terms.
Guns get stolen a lot; houses with guns often get targeted because they’re high-value items to sell.
231 | Pie-onist Overlord May 27, 2014 2:52:28pm |
…and after the whole chase this is how he leaves the dump truck http://t.co/NlEsYrP0jQ— Michael Rusch (@weeddude) May 27, 2014
232 | wrenchwench May 27, 2014 2:54:01pm |
re: #200 Rightwingconspirator
Genuinely sorry to have brought in such upsetting material. :-(
I appreciate that.
Of course there’s other stuff going on that exacerbates it. Ordinarily I’d close the tab and be done with it.
233 | Justanotherhuman May 27, 2014 2:54:43pm |
Cat break.
re: #215 darthstar
[Embedded content]
And Micah Lee doesn’t give a damn about how he gets to the front of the queue. Because fuck you, it’s me and we elites don’t have to wait like the peons.
“Once hired, Lee needed to travel to Brazil immediately. First Look has an office in New York City, but Greenwald works from his house located in the outskirts of Rio de Janeiro.
“Unfortunately, the consulate in San Francisco near where Lee lives didn’t have an open spot for a visa appointment. It would be at least two months before he’d be able to leave for Brazil.
“Undeterred, Lee created a smart (and legal) hack — a script that constantly scraped the consulate’s visa calendar to check for cancellations. If it found any, it would text Lee, giving him the opportunity to hop online and book.
“In less than 48 hours, he scored an appointment and flew to Rio within days.”
234 | klys May 27, 2014 2:55:32pm |
re: #230 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut
Guns get stolen a lot; houses with guns often get targeted because they’re high-value items to sell.
I confess, I have lost track of how many PS3s we have owned.
The one the cops got back eventually went to PS3 heaven due to damage sustained in the theft.
I will never buy a slot-loading entertainment device again ever. Those things were a PAIN IN THE ASS to disassemble when a disc got stuck, plus you needed the special security screw head.
235 | Rightwingconspirator May 27, 2014 2:58:17pm |
re: #217 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut
Not really. It isn’t a necessary number, as I said. National numbers have no relevance to individual situations, and once you drilled down to the level of the actual situation—where the person lived and worked—the data would be too shallow anyway.
What we do have is relatively solid numbers on violent crimes. Most people, unfortunately, are wildly misinformed about this, so we get a lot of people buying guns for ‘self defense’ based on a very incorrect assumption about their risk. It’s too bad, and people who are experts on guns should be doing what they can to educate these people about their actual risks.
That looks to me like a matter of resolution. Gated communities (I suppose) have very different violence numbers than gang stressed poor communities. When the DOJ says x percent of us will be a victim of a violent crime, that gets noticed.
i’m going to disagree with you about the utility of the number we (sadly) won’t have. It may or may not be necessary to having the discussion, but I miss it, as in it’s perspective. A big vague national number of course would not be nearly as good as high resolution numbers broken down to demographic and zip codes. Those who regularly carry valuables or cash probably are at more risk.
But this is moot. The decision how high a risk is high enough to have the gun, the quick safe, the training, the practice-is terribly circumstantial and subject to all kinds of factors.
Of course we already agree (dare I suggest?) that those who buy just for self defense and do not well evaluate the risk and / or fail to train, store, and practice are a big problem. They need to be prevented or corrected. Saw a lot of that after the civil unrest here in L.A.
236 | klys May 27, 2014 3:00:41pm |
re: #235 Rightwingconspirator
As I recall, after my grandmother passed away, my dad found a loaded pistol (of some sort) in the nightstand drawer.
She lived in a gated community.
I might contend that you are, unfortunately, the minority when it comes to discussing gun owners.
237 | Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut May 27, 2014 3:03:48pm |
re: #235 Rightwingconspirator
That looks to me like a matter of resolution. Gated communities (I suppose) have very different violence numbers than gang stressed poor communities. When the DOJ says x percent of us will be a victim of a violent crime, that gets noticed.
I don’t know what you mean by ‘that gets noticed’. If you mean that people read that and misapply it, that’s true.
i’m going to disagree with you about the utility of the number we (sadly) won’t have. It may or may not be necessary to having the discussion, but I miss it, as in it’s perspective. A big vague national number of course would not be nearly as good as high resolution numbers broken down to demographic and zip codes. Those who regularly carry valuables or cash probably are at more risk.
Why don’t you think that actual risk of crime on the granular town and neighborhood level is enough?
But this is moot. The decision how high a risk is high enough to have the gun, the quick safe, the training, the practice-is terribly circumstantial and subject to all kinds of factors.
It’s not terribly circumstantial for most people, no. Why do you think it is?
Of course we already agree (dare I suggest?) that those who buy just for self defense and do not well evaluate the risk and / or fail to train, store, and practice are a big problem. They need to be prevented or corrected. Saw a lot of that after the civil unrest here in L.A.
Very few people who buy for self-defense actually evaluate the risk well, which is demonstrable by the incredibly high rate of confusion about risk of victimization—and most especially, risk of victimization from strangers.
I’m glad that you now see the importance of preventing these people from getting guns, but this is a new thing on your part.
238 | Rightwingconspirator May 27, 2014 3:05:05pm |
re: #236 klys
As I recall, after my grandmother passed away, my dad found a loaded pistol (of some sort) in the nightstand drawer.
She lived in a gated community.
I might content that you are, unfortunately, the minority when it comes to discussing gun owners.
One reason I’m in the minority is I trained up through instructor certification level. That’s a lot of hours, classes, sessions at the range, years of instructing then finally the credential to certify new instructors. I’m the old Not Bold pilot so to speak. I’m one of the guys hammering lessons home to new and active shooters.
Another reason is my beloved and I both do the sporting and tactical side. Our lives depend on the shooters around us not making any fatal fire mistakes. Nothing like having your wife involved to sharpen your sense of care and caution.
239 | calochortus May 27, 2014 3:05:28pm |
I’m not good with snap decisions about actions-which may actually be a safety mechanism. You will not find me trying to exit the freeway from the wrong lane at the last minute-and I have no confidence that I would be a good candidate for defending myself with a gun in a suddenly dangerous situation.
Fortunately, I live in a pretty safe neighborhood and am undoubtedly safer without a gun around.
240 | GlutenFreeJesus May 27, 2014 3:06:33pm |
re: #90 Gus
It’s also rather absurd to think we’ll ever reach that perfect place in Afghanistan. You know. Afghanistan. Remember? Might take another 500 years… Carry on.
We will when we achieve warp capability when the Vulcans fly through our system and take notice.
241 | Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut May 27, 2014 3:07:13pm |
re: #239 calochortus
I’m not good with snap decisions about actions-which may actually be a safety mechanism. You will not find me trying to exit the freeway from the wrong lane at the last minute-and I have no confidence that I would be a good candidate for defending myself with a gun in a suddenly dangerous situation.
Fortunately, I live in a pretty safe neighborhood and am undoubtedly safer without a gun around.
One of the problems is a Catch-22: You need some expertise in guns and in tactical situations to accurately self-assess whether you’re competent to use a gun for self-defense. It doesn’t help that the government of many states tells people they’re competent to have a CCW based on silly shit like passing a hunting safety course, as Florida does.
242 | klys May 27, 2014 3:09:42pm |
re: #238 Rightwingconspirator
One reason I’m in the minority is I trained up through instructor certification level. That’s a lot of hours, classes, sessions at the range, years of instructing then finally the credential to certify new instructors. I’m the old Not Bold pilot so to speak. I’m one of the guys hammering lessons home to new and active shooters.
Another reason is my beloved and I both do the sporting and tactical side. Our lives depend on the shooters around us not making any fatal fire mistakes. Nothing like having your wife involved to sharpen your sense of care and caution.
Right, but on the flip side:
My grandfather was military. Near as we can tell, the pistol was his.
They got the pistol because they were scared. No hunting. No sport shooting. Scared of home invasion, of tyranny, of whatever it is you end up scared of when you listen to Fox News 24/7.
On the other side, my other grandfather hunts. Those rifles stay in the cabinet unless he is hunting. I don’t think I’ve ever seen them out (we’re typically not up there in hunting season). I have shot BBs up there under close supervision with my uncles. One of my cousins got seriously chewed out for fooling around with an unloaded rifle.
I have seen both sides of this coin. I choose not to own a firearm, and I am cognizant that there are people out there who treat them well. But I am also cognizant that there are a lot of people out there who shouldn’t have them that do, and I would have included my grandparents in that category.
243 | Rightwingconspirator May 27, 2014 3:09:56pm |
re: #237 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut
It’s not terribly circumstantial for most people, no. Why do you think it is?
Take at risk people. Like a guy that carries valuables all the time. His crime risk is higher. He might be single living alone, a co worker with his same job might have a home full of children.
Same risk of violent robbery, dissimilar risks of having a gun at home.
I’m glad that you now see the importance of preventing these people from getting guns, but this is a new thing on your part.
I think I understand how you came to that unfortunately erroneous conclusion about me. These things happen.
244 | Lidane May 27, 2014 3:10:46pm |
As usual, The Onion gets it right:
‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens http://t.co/5O0H2cszAl pic.twitter.com/7fBzYnJTkq— The Onion (@TheOnion) May 27, 2014
245 | calochortus May 27, 2014 3:10:46pm |
re: #241 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut
Yep, I also have no interest in guns and staying current with target practice and the like would be a serious chore for me. Seriously, I’d rather go to the dentist or something.
246 | Mattand May 27, 2014 3:12:20pm |
OT rant/complaint:
Just read a comment at the Pharyngula blog where someone described the US as a “soft police state, not a dictatorship.”
I hate to go MBF and risk conjuring up her acolytes, but Jesus Fucking Christ: explain to me how that’s not as stupid as some of the shit you see at Free Republic?
247 | Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut May 27, 2014 3:12:51pm |
re: #243 Rightwingconspirator
Take at risk people. Like a guy that carries valuables all the time.
Okay. Those are corner cases: I’m talking about the average person buying a gun for home defense. I have no issues with someone who carries valuables all the time getting a gun for self defense (as long as he trains a lot), nor ever have.
I’m talking about ordinary people.
I think I understand how you came to that unfortunately erroneous conclusion about me. These things happen.
I didn’t. You previously have objected strenuously when I have advocated that gun enthusiasts discourage people from owning guns who are buying them for ‘self defense’ if that person doesn’t actually have a high risk of victimization.
248 | Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut May 27, 2014 3:13:38pm |
re: #245 calochortus
Yep, I also have no interest in guns and staying current with target practice and the like would be a serious chore for me. Seriously, I’d rather go to the dentist or something.
Another piece of data we’ll never actually get is how many people actually store their guns safely at home, don’t get drunk while having easy access to their guns, etc.
249 | Kragar May 27, 2014 3:16:15pm |
Bored GOP Vetting Rand Paul Just To Kill Time Before Viable 2016 Candidate Emerges via @TheOnion— Kragar (@Kragar_LGF) May 27, 2014
250 | dog philosopher May 27, 2014 3:18:50pm |
re: #249 Kragar
Bored GOP Vetting Rand Paul Just To Kill Time Before Viable 2016 Candidate Emerges
i thought gop candidates were considered viable at conception
251 | Justanotherhuman May 27, 2014 3:19:15pm |
Update: Spokeswoman says Michigan Gov. Rick Snyder will sign $9.25 minimum wage law within a few hours - @AP
Read more on detroitnews.com
252 | klys May 27, 2014 3:19:25pm |
re: #250 dog philosopher
i thought gop candidates were considered viable at conception
But not after birth!
253 | Feline Fearless Leader May 27, 2014 3:19:34pm |
Good evening Lizards. Overcast, muggy and relatively hot (87F) afternoon has converted over into rain.
254 | A Mom Anon May 27, 2014 3:20:09pm |
re: #236 klys
Also, the number one would be looking for, if it were to be found, would be “Number of SUCCESSFUL attempts at home defense with a firearm”, yes? (or words to that effect, it’s a bit awkward- I’ve had a long day)
Since there are few if any requirements anymore to get training before buying and amassing weapons and ammo, let alone one gun, I’m going out on a limb and saying it COULD be likely that a rather large number of gun owners are not going to be good with a gun in an emergency. Not that training guarantees that, but it could help. I don’t understand what the problem is with, at a minimum, having similar requirements to licensing and owning a car or motorcycle. Similar database, similar level(plus a bit more) proficiency testing, similar insurance requirements- for accidents. One can have restrictions on a license for physical disabilities, why not mental health restrictions on firearms? Then, if a cop gets a call to an address, they might get some idea of whether or not the residents are armed and with what type of gun, if there are mental health issues, etc. And maybe we could actually invest in mental health professionals that work with the police in these situations, they could be LEOs that are also trained in mental health issues. If we’re going to ever (and lordy I am not holding my breath) get serious about this issue, we need to think outside the box. What we’re doing now isn’t working at all, and each one of these shootings is a smack with the clue by four that’s being ignored.
255 | Rightwingconspirator May 27, 2014 3:20:53pm |
re: #239 calochortus
When I teach self defense I teach via a triangle of things to apply. Gun or not, martial arts or not, nice area or not, we start with this-Awareness. That’s your aptitudes, and a willingness to be aware of your circumstances day in day out. Intelligence. Bring your brain to the task at all times. Learn, read, write speak aloud, whatever makes the right actions and lessons stick with you when adrenaline hits. Then Training.
256 | EPR-radar May 27, 2014 3:20:59pm |
re: #189 wrenchwench
Among other things that this meathead does, he fails philosophy 101.
Reasoning from what something is (i.e., a fertilized egg having a unique genetic code) to what something allegedly ought to be (i.e., the woman having no rights) is difficult (some would argue inherently impossible. This clown doesn’t even show his work.
257 | calochortus May 27, 2014 3:23:16pm |
re: #255 Rightwingconspirator
When I teach self defense I teach via a triangle of things to apply. Gun or not, martial arts or not, nice area or not, we start with this-Awareness. That’s your aptitudes, and a willingness to be aware of your circumstances day in day out. Intelligence. Bring your brain to the task at all times. Learn, read, write speak aloud, whatever makes the right actions and lessons stick with you when adrenaline hits. Then Training.
Apparently a self-confident, alert attitude is one of the best ways to avoid being a target. I hope so, ‘cause it’s all I got!
258 | wrenchwench May 27, 2014 3:23:47pm |
re: #246 Mattand
OT rant/complaint:
Just read a comment at the Pharyngula blog where someone described the US as a “soft police state, not a dictatorship.”
I hate to go MBF and risk conjuring up her acolytes, but Jesus Fucking Christ: explain to me how that’s not as stupid as some of the shit you see at Free Republic?
It’s another case of ‘smart in one area does not equal smart in another area’.
Demonstrating that is actually a dudebro specialty.
259 | Rightwingconspirator May 27, 2014 3:24:09pm |
re: #247 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut
I didn’t. You previously have objected strenuously when I have advocated that gun enthusiasts discourage people from owning guns who are buying them for ‘self defense’ if that person doesn’t actually have a high risk of victimization.
Since we never came to an understanding about where numerically or by circumstance the risk is high enough, nor a process to figure that out, nor a process to exclude those that have guns already for other reasons like sport or hunting, you overstate my position in the negative. If you had attended my class you might have a different perspective.Never mind the details of how I teach defensive firearms are unimportant beyond my range bay.
260 | calochortus May 27, 2014 3:24:14pm |
re: #256 EPR-radar
Among other things that this meathead does, he fails philosophy 101.
Reasoning from what something is (i.e., a fertilized egg having a unique genetic code) to what something allegedly ought to be (i.e., the woman having no rights) is difficult (some would argue inherently impossible. This clown doesn’t even show his work.
There is no coherent work to show.
261 | Justanotherhuman May 27, 2014 3:26:16pm |
The Legend-in-his-own-mind speaks.
Edward Snowden rejects Obama administration claims that he was a low-level hacker - @NBCNews
Read more on nbcnews.com
“In the interview, Snowden described himself as a technical expert who has worked for the United States at high levels, including as a lecturer in a counterintelligence academy for the Defense Intelligence Agency and undercover for the CIA and NSA. The Defense Intelligence Agency confirmed to NBC News that Snowden, as a contractor, had spoken at three of their conferences. Two intelligence sources tell NBC that Snowden worked for the CIA at an overseas station in IT and communications.”
Wow, way to puff up your resume to reflect your fantastic thinking.
Expert! Lecturer! Undercover agent! Riiiight.
262 | Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut May 27, 2014 3:30:05pm |
re: #259 Rightwingconspirator
Since we never came to an understanding about where numerically or by circumstance the risk is high enough, nor a process to figure that out, nor a process to exclude those that have guns already for other reasons like sport or hunting, you overstate my position in the negative.
If you had attended my class you might have a different perspective.Never mind the details of how I teach defensive firearms are unimportant beyond my range bay.
I’m sorry, I can’t really make head or tail of this. The easy way to figure out if your risk is high enough is by looking at the risk of violent attack where you live. You haven’t come up with any reason why this isn’t sufficient for the average person.
People who have guns for sport should be keeping them at the range, not at home, and people keeping them for hunting should have them very securely locked up or not in the house, so those don’t really apply to what we’re talking about.
263 | Justanotherhuman May 27, 2014 3:31:27pm |
NBC/MSNBC will never get my eyes again.
Edward Snowden is nothing more than a traitor to the US.
Deal? I don’t think so.
264 | EPR-radar May 27, 2014 3:32:55pm |
re: #260 calochortus
There is no coherent work to show.
Naturally. Category errors are like that. Mr. Meathead probably thinks it is some kind of super-genius argument, when all he is doing is outing himself as an idiot.
265 | wrenchwench May 27, 2014 3:33:29pm |
re: #261 Justanotherhuman
The Legend-in-his-own-mind speaks.
Edward Snowden rejects Obama administration claims that he was a low-level hacker - @NBCNews
Read more on nbcnews.com“In the interview, Snowden described himself as a technical expert who has worked for the United States at high levels, including as a lecturer in a counterintelligence academy for the Defense Intelligence Agency and undercover for the CIA and NSA. The Defense Intelligence Agency confirmed to NBC News that Snowden, as a contractor, had spoken at three of their conferences. Two intelligence sources tell NBC that Snowden worked for the CIA at an overseas station in IT and communications.”
Wow, way to puff up your resume to reflect your fantastic thinking.
Expert! Lecturer! Undercover agent! Riiiight.
I think Obama handed Mr. Smart Guy a shovel, and he started digging.
266 | Justanotherhuman May 27, 2014 3:34:01pm |
New charges filed for Jewish center shooting suspect
OVERLAND PARK, KS (KCTV) -
“A white supremacist accused of killing three people at two Jewish centers in Johnson County now faces new charges in connection with the April shootings.
“Frazier Glenn Cross Jr., who also goes by Glenn Miller, 73, was charged Tuesday with trying to kill three other people during the shooting spree. The new charges are three counts of attempted murder, one count of aggravated assault and one count of shooting a firearm into a building.
“Cross is scheduled to appear in court Thursday morning.” More
267 | calochortus May 27, 2014 3:34:46pm |
re: #264 EPR-radar
It’s like the old suggestion of replacing a page of dubious mathematical calculations with the word “obviously” so they won’t be questioned.
268 | b.d. May 27, 2014 3:35:16pm |
re: #263 Justanotherhuman
NBC/MSNBC will never get my eyes again.
Edward Snowden is nothing more than a traitor to the US.
Deal? I don’t think so.
Why the hell would Snowden want a deal? I thought he didn’t want to live in a country that did stuff that the USA does?
269 | Justanotherhuman May 27, 2014 3:35:41pm |
re: #265 wrenchwench
I think Obama handed Mr. Smart Guy a shovel, and he started digging.
Snowden isn’t the smartest knife in the drawer. Just the smuggest.
Heh. ETA: Of course, I meant “sharpest”. Typing too fast, not proofing enough.
270 | EPR-radar May 27, 2014 3:36:12pm |
re: #267 calochortus
It’s like the old suggestion of replacing a page of dubious mathematical calculations with the word “obviously” so they won’t be questioned.
“intuitively obvious to the most casual reader” if an especially dodgy point needs to be finessed.
271 | Justanotherhuman May 27, 2014 3:36:21pm |
re: #268 b.d.
Why the hell would Snowden want a deal? I thought he didn’t want to live in a country that did stuff that the USA does?
He doesn’t want a stint in Club Fed. As if.
272 | b.d. May 27, 2014 3:36:52pm |
Snowden is the smartest guy “stuck” in Moscow.
Sorry but smart people don’t use Julian Assange as a travel agent.
273 | Justanotherhuman May 27, 2014 3:38:16pm |
re: #272 b.d.
Snowden is the smartest guy “stuck” in Moscow.
Sorry but smart people don’t use Julian Assange as a travel agent.
Or a non-lawyer like Sarah Harrison of Wikileaks giving them legal advice.
274 | Rightwingconspirator May 27, 2014 3:40:55pm |
re: #262 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut
I’m sorry, I can’t really make head or tail of this. The easy way to figure out if your risk is high enough is by looking at the risk of violent attack where you live. You haven’t come up with any reason why this isn’t sufficient for the average person.
I’m not prepared to get further into that right now. I’m hunting some facts and we would need to define some things like what constitutes a risk so low one must not get a gun. Or really should consider one. Even if we define these differently.
People who have guns for sport should be keeping them at the range, not at home, and people keeping them for hunting should have them very securely locked up or not in the house, so those don’t really apply to what we’re talking about.
I don’t agree once one has solid proper storage at home. The further from the city we are talking about the less practical this becomes as well. So we depart ways early on here. I will insist on including those people as a legitimate part of the picture.
You might not like this, take it as my considered opinion-There are two ways to correct the self defense only low risk person. (I assume proper storage etc.) Your suggestion-Convince them to get rid of the gun. Another approach is make good sports shooters of them via fun times at the range. Then we have well stored guns that have two purposes.
So we see this differently. Which of course is to be expected from time to time.
275 | Ding-an-sich Wannabe May 27, 2014 3:44:15pm |
re: #272 b.d.
Snowden is the smartest guy “stuck” in Moscow.
Sorry but smart people don’t use Julian Assange as a travel agent.
Assange does, and he is smart. I heard he is somewhere in Ecuador right now.
/
276 | Skip Intro May 27, 2014 3:46:32pm |
re: #214 klys
Maybe you can explain then why I inevitably have to try three times to insert a USB stick when there are only two sides.
Just be happy you’re too young to have ever had to use S-video cables.
277 | Justanotherhuman May 27, 2014 3:47:31pm |
re: #275 Sergey Romanov
Assange does, and he is smart. I heard he is somewhere in Ecuador right now.
/
Gawd, I’m so tired of pretentious twats like these dudebros.
278 | Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut May 27, 2014 3:50:20pm |
re: #274 Rightwingconspirator
I’m not prepared to get further into that right now. I’m hunting some facts and we would need to define some things like what constitutes a risk so low one must not get a gun. Or really should consider one. Even if we define these differently.
For most people, the risk of violent assault in the home is very, very low. One easy thing to compare it against would be against the risk of an accident with the gun, the gun being stolen, the gun being used against them, etc. This would be the most generous possible interpretation.
I don’t agree once one has solid proper storage at home. The further from the city we are talking about the less practical this becomes as well. So we depart ways early on here. I will insist on including those people as a legitimate part of the picture.
First of all, you can’t assume proper storage, and second of all, if the person has the gun for ‘sport’, then there is no purpose to having the gun at their home. Likewise, for hunting. I’m not sure what you mean by insisting; if we’re talking about who should have guns at home, then someone who just uses their gun to plink at the range is a pretty obvious example of someone who shouldn’t.
You might not like this, take it as my considered opinion-There are two ways to correct the self defense only low risk person. (I assume proper storage etc.) Your suggestion-Convince them to get rid of the gun. Another approach is make good sports shooters of them via fun times at the range. Then we have well stored guns that have two purposes.
Again, you can’t assume that they’ll store the guns well, and that you use a gun for sport isn’t any more reason to keep the gun at home. Furthermore, if for whatever bizarre reason you can’t keep the gun at the range, keeping it truly secure would mean that it wouldn’t be very accessible, curtailing its use for home defense.
I’m kind of wondering if you’re joking at this point, the idea that the solution to someone who doesn’t really need a gun for self defense being to get them really into sport shooting. That doesn’t address the issue in the least.
279 | Justanotherhuman May 27, 2014 3:50:56pm |
I wonder if this is familicide.
4 Found Dead In Mission Viejo Home; ‘No Outstanding Suspects’ Sought
280 | Killgore Trout May 27, 2014 3:52:16pm |
re: #246 Mattand
OT rant/complaint:
Just read a comment at the Pharyngula blog where someone described the US as a “soft police state, not a dictatorship.”
I hate to go MBF and risk conjuring up her acolytes, but Jesus Fucking Christ: explain to me how that’s not as stupid as some of the shit you see at Free Republic?
There’s plenty of stupid to go around.
282 | klys May 27, 2014 3:55:39pm |
re: #269 Justanotherhuman
Snowden isn’t the smartest knife in the drawer. Just the smuggest.
Heh. ETA: Of course, I meant “sharpest”. Typing too fast, not proofing enough.
No, no, your original comment was perfect as-is.
283 | Gus May 27, 2014 3:58:48pm |
re: #275 Sergey Romanov
Assange does, and he is smart. I heard he is somewhere in Ecuador right now.
/
Greenwald is a “journalist,” Snowden is a “spy,” and Assange is somewhere in “Ecuador.”
284 | klys May 27, 2014 3:59:21pm |
re: #283 Gus
Greenwald is a “journalist,” Snowden is a “spy,” and Assange is somewhere in “Ecuador.”
If we play the game like this, can I be a “billionaire”?
285 | Gus May 27, 2014 4:01:02pm |
re: #284 klys
If we play the game like this, can I be a “billionaire”?
Yep. Or you can be an inbillionaire. That is, an involuntary billionaire. There’s no known cure.
286 | b.d. May 27, 2014 4:02:57pm |
re: #283 Gus
Greenwald is a “journalist,” Snowden is a “spy,” and Assange is somewhere in “Ecuador.”
ha!
287 | Ding-an-sich Wannabe May 27, 2014 4:03:08pm |
re: #285 Gus
Yep. Or you can be an inbillionaire. That is, an involuntary billionaire. There’s no known cure.
Sort of a Croesus effect, like, you crap $$$?
288 | Backwoods_Sleuth May 27, 2014 4:03:58pm |
re: #238 Rightwingconspirator
One reason I’m in the minority is I trained up through instructor certification level. That’s a lot of hours, classes, sessions at the range, years of instructing then finally the credential to certify new instructors. I’m the old Not Bold pilot so to speak. I’m one of the guys hammering lessons home to new and active shooters.
Another reason is my beloved and I both do the sporting and tactical side. Our lives depend on the shooters around us not making any fatal fire mistakes. Nothing like having your wife involved to sharpen your sense of care and caution.
See, here’s the thing. You just said it. You and wife are committed to training and keeping your skills.
Sadly, most gunowners today are not that responsible.
289 | Justanotherhuman May 27, 2014 4:06:14pm |
OMFG.
Edward Snowden tells @NBCNews he was ‘trained as a spy’ and ‘lived and worked undercover overseas’
Read more on nbcnews.com
Who trained him, Russia?
290 | Rightwingconspirator May 27, 2014 4:07:18pm |
re: #241 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut
One of the problems is a Catch-22: You need some expertise in guns and in tactical situations to accurately self-assess whether you’re competent to use a gun for self-defense. It doesn’t help that the government of many states tells people they’re competent to have a CCW based on silly shit like passing a hunting safety course, as Florida does.
There is another fix.
re: #278 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut
Okay going to hope to avoid much repetition or quibbling over terms. By assuming I mean stipulated. As soon as a person is not storing properly etc., they go on my list of people that must fix that problem or give up the gun. If I can not stipulate to circumstance like that I really can’t respond at all.
No not joking, been there, doing that-the sporting side is a valid way to teach & insist on the safe ways to store at home, handle, clean and shoot safely. The advantage of an enjoyable target sport is the repetition of using good habits and being exposed to the safety rules. Practice pays. If one is an ardent critic of guns, that is obviously not really a welcome solution.
There is a long established national CCW based sport. The facilities and clubs provide the chance to just watch. If it looks good, thorough training is made available to enter the sport safely as a new trained novice. Maybe you do this sport for a while before you decide about CCW or having a gun at home. Maybe you just like the sport and skip it at home. Maybe it’s all too much and you walk away. That’s fine too. It happens.
The sport is so good at increasing skills in a safe environment it draws many law officers and even off duty military. It’s called IDPA. It was founded by and for civilians to gain practical gun skills in a sporting competitive way.
It all depends on your mindset about guns in general and your own personal circumstances.
I understand many won’t like this answer. Like it or not it’s a valid and common way to have guns and reduce accidents among gun owners. Proper storage is the responsible and legal way to have a gun or more at home.
I just do not agree the only way to go is not have them at home at all short of high risk individuals.
291 | wrenchwench May 27, 2014 4:07:19pm |
re: #289 Justanotherhuman
OMFG.
Edward Snowden tells @NBCNews he was ‘trained as a spy’ and ‘lived and worked undercover overseas’
Read more on nbcnews.comWho trained him, Russia?
Does Hawaii count as ‘overseas’ now?
292 | Pie-onist Overlord May 27, 2014 4:07:55pm |
re: #272 b.d.
Snowden is the smartest guy “stuck” in Moscow.
Sorry but smart people don’t use Julian Assange as a travel agent.
Snowden is a genius just like Ben Carson, except without the brain surgery skills.
294 | Pie-onist Overlord May 27, 2014 4:10:26pm |
re: #289 Justanotherhuman
OMFG.
Edward Snowden tells @NBCNews he was ‘trained as a spy’ and ‘lived and worked undercover overseas’
Read more on nbcnews.comWho trained him, Russia?
The Internet trained him.
295 | Justanotherhuman May 27, 2014 4:11:12pm |
re: #291 wrenchwench
Does Hawaii count as ‘overseas’ now?
He worked in Japan and Hawaii for Dell as a contract sysadm; ostensibly for the State Dept in Switzerland as a non-essential employer, e.g., a clerical or security guard position. That has been his work history, from his own mouth, until now, until he decided to give interviews from Russia.
296 | Ding-an-sich Wannabe May 27, 2014 4:11:31pm |
Snowden’s spy training was conducted in Paris. He was forced to eat 2 kg of Roquefort with only one bottle of merely the 2nd best French wine. It was torture. He’s as good as Bond now.
297 | Rightwingconspirator May 27, 2014 4:11:54pm |
re: #288 Backwoods_Sleuth
See, here’s the thing. You just said it. You and wife are committed to training and keeping your skills.
Sadly, most gunowners today are not that responsible.
Can’t speak for anyone but where I go and what I see, and that is of course anecdotal. We certainly have a loud bunch of assholes that give that bad impression. And they are either louder or more numerous or both than in the past.
Thing is you just won’t often hear about the guys that play responsibly. They just are not the internet warrior type, nor the kind to make the news with the gun in some incident or accident. So we just do what we do, with our own and with our critics.
298 | klys May 27, 2014 4:13:04pm |
[16:11] klys: if there is still bean salad when you get home
[16:11] klys: it is a statement of my love for you
[16:11] husband: I am looking forward to your statement of love for me
[16:11] klys: THERE WAS AN IF THERE
Marriage communication in the 21st century.
(OK, seriously this salad is really good and because I like you all I posted a recipe last night.)
299 | Ding-an-sich Wannabe May 27, 2014 4:13:13pm |
300 | klys May 27, 2014 4:14:07pm |
re: #297 Rightwingconspirator
Can’t speak for anyone but where I go and what I see, and that is of course anecdotal. We certainly have a loud bunch of assholes that give that bad impression. And they are either louder or more numerous or both than in the past.
Thing is you just won’t often hear about the guys that play responsibly. They just are not the internet warrior type, nor the kind to make the news with the gun in some incident or accident. So we just do what we do, with our own and with our critics.
And you don’t hear about the people like my grandparents, in that gated community, with the loaded pistol in the nightstand drawer, unless they have a grandchild younger than 10 who manages to pull it out and shoot themselves.
301 | Charles Johnson May 27, 2014 4:16:56pm |
Ugh - a chronic back problem is flaring up again. Walking real slow right now.
302 | Pie-onist Overlord May 27, 2014 4:19:59pm |
By “Liberals” J.B. means Republicans.
Liberals hate Jews, black people, prosperity, hope, hard work, justice, and the United States. So stop voting for them. #tcot— J. B. Dove (@blackdove3) May 27, 2014
303 | Rightwingconspirator May 27, 2014 4:20:59pm |
re: #300 klys
Yes, anytime bad habits come in risk soars. Fortunately there is *some reason to see gun accidents have been trending down for a long time. We all want a zero rate but people find the darndest ways to screw up. And it’s very deliberate that I stipulate proper storage often.
Disclosure National Sports shooting Foundation document
Note: The statistics presented in this issue are based on figures from the National Safety Council’s Injury Facts(r) 2013 edition and other sources.
For additional source information, please see back cover
304 | EPR-radar May 27, 2014 4:21:01pm |
305 | Justanotherhuman May 27, 2014 4:21:54pm |
re: #301 Charles Johnson
Ugh - a chronic back problem is flaring up again. Walking real slow right now.
Does a heating pad help? Hope it gets better soon.
306 | Charles Johnson May 27, 2014 4:23:22pm |
re: #305 Justanotherhuman
It’s one of those back problems that nothing really helps - I’ve tried pretty much everything. From an old injury. When it acts up, all I can really do is wait it out.
307 | A Mom Anon May 27, 2014 4:24:56pm |
re: #302 Pie-onist Overlord
I’m SO sick of these assberets telling everyone what it is I do and hate all day long. I can guarantee this buffoon I get more done and am more patriotic in my everyday life than anyone that sits on their ass and proclaims shit on the internet. I just don’t have inordinate amounts of time to brag about it, because, you know, I’m DOING stuff.
308 | Rightwingconspirator May 27, 2014 4:25:54pm |
re: #306 Charles Johnson
It’s one of those back problems that nothing really helps - I’ve tried pretty much everything. From an old injury. When it acts up, all I can really do is wait it out.
Heal fast and well Charles. Hate those old chronic issues.
309 | Killgore Trout May 27, 2014 4:28:22pm |
re: #301 Charles Johnson
Ugh - a chronic back problem is flaring up again. Walking real slow right now.
I have two words for you: Inversion table
/Best money I ever spent
310 | GeneJockey May 27, 2014 4:28:39pm |
One problem with the very logical and sensible point that Obdi brings up about the degree of risk most people who feel the need for a gun for self defense are ACTUALLY exposed to is that it is irrelevant to pretty much all of them, and the counterarguments are already made into t-shirts. “You never need a gun until you REALLY, REALLY NEED it!”, for example.
The whole rational argument falls apart under the equivalent of Cheney’s ‘One Percent Doctrine’, whereby even if the chance of something horrible happening is only 1%, that 1% still justifies taking extreme action. Similarly, even if the chance that your home will be invaded is tiny, it’s still not zero, and the consequences are presumed to be SO AWFUL as to justify the increased risk of a gun in the house.
Mind you, most of these folks will assume there is NO INCREASED RISK for them, because they’re Responsible Gun Owners. It’s never Responsible Gun Owners whose children accidentally shoot themselves or their siblings or playmates, nor do Responsible Gun Owners ever accidentally shoot themselves, or get angry or drunk and do something stupid and kill someone.
No, THEY are immune to that risk.
As luck would have it, Mrs. J spent the mornings this weekend at a gun safety class, because her Gal Pals thought it might be fun. She enjoyed the class, and the shooting, but has no interest in following it up. (She enjoys classes of just about any kind, and always excels at the book larnin’ part). Neither of us feels particularly inclined to pursue firearms as a hobby.
311 | Kid A May 27, 2014 4:28:44pm |
re: #118 Killgore Trout
I would have preferred we leave behind a stable democracy. I’m not expecting perfection but something along the lines of Iraq. Sure, stuff blows up sometimes, there’s a bit of ethnic/religious tension but the government is stable and not in danger of collapsing or being overthrown. I don;t think we’re leaving behind a stable government in Afghanistan.
[begin rant]I would prefer if we wouldn’t borrow $2T dollars to institute anything. A stable democracy in that part of the world (I don’t think I can even include Israel here because of the region it is in) is a pipe dream. PERIOD. If you want to base success along the lines of Iraq, hey, the Cubs did win a World Series one time, huh? Yeah, “stuff blows up sometimes.” What the fuck kind of non sequitur is that? You think the government is stable there? My ass. You want to know why we’re not leaving behind a stable government in Afghanistan? BECAUSE IT WAS AN IMPOSSIBLE ENDEAVOR TO BEGIN WITH. You can not reason with people that live in the Old Testament.[/end of rant]
312 | Pie-onist Overlord May 27, 2014 4:28:57pm |
re: #307 A Mom Anon
I’m SO sick of these assberets telling everyone what it is I do and hate all day long. I can guarantee this buffoon I get more done and am more patriotic in my everyday life than anyone that sits on their ass and proclaims shit on the internet. I just don’t have inordinate amounts of time to brag about it, because, you know, I’m DOING stuff.
Projection, it’s what wingnuts do.
313 | Pie-onist Overlord May 27, 2014 4:29:17pm |
Well I guess now we know why Snowden can make himself “unrecognizable” http://t.co/evTQmfvRcw— Michael B. Kelley (@MichaelKelleyBI) May 27, 2014
314 | dog philosopher May 27, 2014 4:30:02pm |
Liberals hate Jews, black people, prosperity, hope, hard work, justice, and the United States
in that case, democrats and progressives are not the same as whoever it is that you are talking about
315 | b.d. May 27, 2014 4:30:03pm |
re: #301 Charles Johnson
Ugh - a chronic back problem is flaring up again. Walking real slow right now.
Sorry Charles, I wouldn’t wish back pain on my worst enemy. Hope all gets better soon.
316 | klys May 27, 2014 4:30:09pm |
re: #310 GeneJockey
I wouldn’t mind going shooting at some point, with a real gun as opposed to a BB gun, just so I have some context/perspective/new experience.
I have little expectation* that it would change anything about my attitude towards having one at home.
* I’m a scientist, it’s really hard to use the word never.
317 | Pie-onist Overlord May 27, 2014 4:31:21pm |
Snowden keep threatening that he can make himself “unrecognizable” and he can “dissapear”, but no one seem to care much. :(— BWD (@theonlyadult) May 27, 2014
318 | bratwurst May 27, 2014 4:32:01pm |
You knew he was going to have a dumb take on this…but did you think it would be THIS dumb?
Glenn Beck Reads Elliot Rodger’s Manifesto: ‘That Is Almost An Exact Quote From Teddy Roosevelt’
319 | GeneJockey May 27, 2014 4:32:18pm |
re: #316 klys
I wouldn’t mind going shooting at some point, with a real gun as opposed to a BB gun, just so I have some context/perspective/new experience.
I have little expectation* that it would change anything about my attitude towards having one at home.
* I’m a scientist, it’s really hard to use the word never.
This weekend, Mrs. J said, “Never say never. Wait! I just said it! TWICE!!”
320 | klys May 27, 2014 4:32:57pm |
re: #319 GeneJockey
This weekend, Mrs. J said, “Never say never. Wait! I just said it! TWICE!!”
I still need to connect with you for archery lessons. >.>
321 | Ding-an-sich Wannabe May 27, 2014 4:34:00pm |
re: #318 bratwurst
You knew he was going to have a dumb take on this…but did you think it would be THIS dumb?
Glenn Beck Reads Elliot Rodger’s Manifesto: ‘That Is Almost An Exact Quote From Teddy Roosevelt’
Let him talk. Let him tell us how he really feels.
325 | EPR-radar May 27, 2014 4:39:01pm |
re: #317 Pie-onist Overlord
Great. Snowden shutting up would be a wonderful start.
326 | Ding-an-sich Wannabe May 27, 2014 4:39:25pm |
The flag of “Novorossiya”, funny coincidence.
327 | Gus May 27, 2014 4:39:47pm |
328 | GeneJockey May 27, 2014 4:40:32pm |
We actually HAVE guns at home. But they’re locked up, and would be hard to get at. I liked the idea of a .22 for plinking, and hunting with a black powder rifle, and I had allowed myself to be influenced by others to believe that a gun for self defense made sense.
Well, there’s no place within 4 hours drive to plink; cartridge guns caught on and superceded muzzeloaders because they’re much more reliable, in addition to me being a lousy hunter; and I realized I live in a very safe neighborhood.
So, they’re locked up.
329 | b.d. May 27, 2014 4:41:15pm |
330 | Backwoods_Sleuth May 27, 2014 4:42:21pm |
re: #297 Rightwingconspirator
Can’t speak for anyone but where I go and what I see, and that is of course anecdotal. We certainly have a loud bunch of assholes that give that bad impression. And they are either louder or more numerous or both than in the past.
Thing is you just won’t often hear about the guys that play responsibly. They just are not the internet warrior type, nor the kind to make the news with the gun in some incident or accident. So we just do what we do, with our own and with our critics.
Yep. And that’s what TBogg clearly described in his post over at Raw Story.
I was NRA also during the same timeframe as he was, and saw the same disintegration of responsible gun ownership.
Distresses me greatly.
331 | Ding-an-sich Wannabe May 27, 2014 4:43:16pm |
332 | Kid A May 27, 2014 4:45:12pm |
Heritage, you are such fools.
Its population is growing. Its people are becoming more prosperous. It is creating both billionaires and employing more minimum-wage workers than any other state. Its energy sector has thrived—year-over-year drilling has doubled so far in 2014, with 10,000 new wells drilled just since January. Its technology corridor now extends for hundreds of miles along I-35.
Texas is the hottest state economy this side of North Dakota. But some still refuse to acknowledge the Texas Miracle.
Where’s the mention of some of the highest property taxes in the country? How about the dumbest students? The highest amount of uninsured when it comes to health coverage? The highest incarceration of minorities? One of the most obese states? One of the highest amounts of substance abuse?
I live here, Jim Demented.
333 | Bubblehead II May 27, 2014 4:45:42pm |
334 | Ding-an-sich Wannabe May 27, 2014 4:45:55pm |
335 | Bubblehead II May 27, 2014 4:48:17pm |
336 | Charles Johnson May 27, 2014 4:48:54pm |
@QuadCityPat @TheWarRoom_Tom @bobcesca_go @Gus_802 Snowden, man of many faces. The Rogue, the Smarty, the Casanova… pic.twitter.com/aQv49TLuVE— Charles Johnson (@Green_Footballs) May 27, 2014
337 | b.d. May 27, 2014 4:48:57pm |
re: #333 Bubblehead II
Sunday/Monday off?
It was a nice 3 day weekend and though the calender says today is Tuesday, it sure felt like a Monday.
Today is your Friday? What are you going to do for your weekend?
338 | TedStriker May 27, 2014 4:49:44pm |
re: #317 Pie-onist Overlord
Snowden keep threatening that he can make himself “unrecognizable” and he can “dissapear”, but no one seem to care much. :(
— BWD (@theonlyadult) May 27, 2014
Funny that Snowjob’s cloak of invisibility hasn’t helped him to get out of Russia…
339 | William Barnett-Lewis May 27, 2014 4:49:56pm |
re: #297 Rightwingconspirator
Can’t speak for anyone but where I go and what I see, and that is of course anecdotal. We certainly have a loud bunch of assholes that give that bad impression. And they are either louder or more numerous or both than in the past.
Thing is you just won’t often hear about the guys that play responsibly. They just are not the internet warrior type, nor the kind to make the news with the gun in some incident or accident. So we just do what we do, with our own and with our critics.
How many hear about things like you and I talking last night about my project? Or even though we try be out there, about there even being such a thing as a Liberal Gun Club?
If I were rich, I’d start an ad campaign showing good responsible gun owners saying why they quit the NRA. With FUDD wood & steel as well as modern EBR/”Modern Sporting Rifles” (I don’t mind them, but I hate that phrase even more than a journalist calling them “assault rifles”.)
Buy full page ads & bill boards and show the nation there is more to the discussion than either the NRA and the Brady Campaign.
340 | Ding-an-sich Wannabe May 27, 2014 4:50:20pm |
re: #335 Bubblehead II
They do realize those guys lost?
… condamned to repeat it and all that stuff.
343 | Pie-onist Overlord May 27, 2014 4:52:18pm |
344 | Killgore Trout May 27, 2014 4:52:34pm |
re: #311 Kid A
You can not reason with people that live in the Old Testament.[/end of rant]
Jews will be very disappointed to learn that.
345 | Ding-an-sich Wannabe May 27, 2014 4:53:32pm |
re: #343 Pie-onist Overlord
Wait, Novorossiya includes Donbassa? What about Luganda?
Today’s pseudo-Novorossiya (which exists only in the separatists’ minds of course) consists of Donetskaya and Luganskaya oblasts.
346 | Ding-an-sich Wannabe May 27, 2014 4:54:59pm |
re: #344 Killgore Trout
Jews will be very disappointed to learn that.
Maybe you haven’t been around for the last 2000 years or so, and don’t know that there have been some developments in Judaism after the Tanakh… ;)
347 | SteveMcGazi May 27, 2014 4:55:12pm |
re: #344 Killgore Trout
Jews will be very disappointed to learn that.
Not sure they live in the Old Testament.
348 | jaunte May 27, 2014 4:56:10pm |
This is your platform if you want to win an election in Texas. Ahhh! pic.twitter.com/1mG0PIO7xq
— John Brosnan (@birdflyoverlake) May 27, 2014
349 | Pie-onist Overlord May 27, 2014 4:57:09pm |
re: #345 Sergey Romanov
Today’s pseudo-Novorossiya (which exists only in the separatists’ minds of course) consists of Donetskaya and Luganskaya oblasts.
Is that photo a joke?
350 | Ding-an-sich Wannabe May 27, 2014 4:58:12pm |
351 | Pie-onist Overlord May 27, 2014 4:59:12pm |
Wingnuts spamming this lame shit again.
YES it has been explained. It's a lame Photoshop. @TheFlaCracker @Jeffro2477 #tcot #UniteBlue pic.twitter.com/6LdlL7AVBX— The Vicious Babushka (@viciousbabushka) May 27, 2014
352 | GeneJockey May 27, 2014 5:00:06pm |
353 | klys May 27, 2014 5:01:09pm |
Placing here, because I am ashamed to admit I hadn’t really thought about this and it’s a good reminder for all pet owners:
If you leave on vacation and your pets stay with a pet sitter, please leave explicit directions on what you authorize them to do with the pets if they are sick, where they are authorized to bring those pets, and what decisions they can make. This is no fun to figure out over the phone when you are a thousand miles away.
I leave a two page manifesto with veterinary care directions, limits to how much I would be able to pay and in what circumstances, in what conditions the petsitter and vet can make the decision on euthanasia, and a credit card to pay so my poor petsitter doesn’t need to pony up out of pocket if something happens. If everyone did this it would save people a lot of grief.
Shared with permission from a friend who is a vet.
354 | EPR-radar May 27, 2014 5:01:32pm |
re: #339 William Barnett-Lewis
How many hear about things like you and I talking last night about my project? Or even though we try be out there, about there even being such a thing as a Liberal Gun Club?
If I were rich, I’d start an ad campaign showing good responsible gun owners saying why they quit the NRA. With FUDD wood & steel as well as modern EBR/”Modern Sporting Rifles” (I don’t mind them, but I hate that phrase even more than a journalist calling them “assault rifles”.)
Buy full page ads & bill boards and show the nation there is more to the discussion than either the NRA and the Brady Campaign.
Sensible gun advocacy is probably the least-heard position in what passes for the “debate” on guns in the US. The NRA is busy making enemies, and naturally fails to realize that blowback from their evil nonsense is the only real threat to the second amendment.
355 | Killgore Trout May 27, 2014 5:01:51pm |
re: #346 Sergey Romanov
Maybe you haven’t been around for the last 2000 years or so, and don’t know that there have been some developments in Judaism after the Tanakh… ;)
lox!
356 | A Mom Anon May 27, 2014 5:02:08pm |
See you all tomorrow. The Son has had a rough day, had a long talk on the way back up to school today about all this Asperger’s in the news crapola and the shooting in CA and he was just so sad when I left him.
The Husband and I are setting up a video chat and putting silly hats on the dog to cheer him up. Be excellent to each other.
357 | jaunte May 27, 2014 5:02:37pm |
“I’ll leave it in the hands of God, he’s handled our climate pretty well so far,” says @DanPatrick re global warming. #txlege #tx2014
— Morgan Smith (@MorganSmith) May 21, 2014
358 | Ding-an-sich Wannabe May 27, 2014 5:04:02pm |
re: #357 jaunte
There is the story of a man who lived by a river. A policeman warns him to evacuate because of a flood warning. The man rejects the offer and says, “I have perfect trust in God to save me.” As the water rises, a person in a boat offers to take him to safety. The man again replies with his proclamation of trust and refuses the ride. Finally, as the man is sitting on his roof, a helicopter comes to rescue him; again the man proclaims his trust and refuses the rescue. The water rises, the man drowns and is finally standing in judgment before the Almighty. “God, I had perfect trust in You. Why did You let me down?” The Almighty replies, “But, my son, I sent a policeman, a boat and a helicopter!”
359 | GeneJockey May 27, 2014 5:05:03pm |
re: #357 jaunte
[Embedded content]
Did the Christian god ever promise that we couldn’t fuck thing up? That he’d clean up after us? IIRC, the whole NT thing is about salvation, not protecting us from ourselves.
360 | b.d. May 27, 2014 5:06:10pm |
361 | Justanotherhuman May 27, 2014 5:06:19pm |
362 | jaunte May 27, 2014 5:06:37pm |
re: #359 GeneJockey
He’s only a sports-talk-show theologian, so he probably hasn’t thought about it much.
363 | b.d. May 27, 2014 5:06:53pm |
re: #356 A Mom Anon
Sorry A Mom Anon, I hope tomorrow is a good day.
364 | GeneJockey May 27, 2014 5:07:22pm |
re: #362 jaunte
He’s only a sports-talk-show theologian, so he probably hasn’t thought about it much.
I suspect you’re being charitable.
365 | Ding-an-sich Wannabe May 27, 2014 5:07:28pm |
re: #359 GeneJockey
Did the Christian god ever promise that we couldn’t fuck thing up? That he’d clean up after us?
First no, second yes. See the book of Revelations.
/
366 | Gus May 27, 2014 5:07:45pm |
re: #357 jaunte
[Embedded content]
So if a massive asteroid was making a beeline for Earth… oh never mind.
367 | Kid A May 27, 2014 5:09:47pm |
re: #351 Pie-onist Overlord
Uh, Columbia didn’t have barcodes on their student IDs back then, dumbfucks.
368 | Ding-an-sich Wannabe May 27, 2014 5:09:54pm |
re: #366 Gus
So if a massive asteroid was making a beeline for Earth… oh never mind.
Jesus. Baseball bat. Need I say more?
369 | Ding-an-sich Wannabe May 27, 2014 5:10:52pm |
re: #367 Kid A
Uh, Columbia didn’t have barcodes on their student IDs back then, dumbfucks.
It’s like the previous video about kids and ancient computers. Except the kids are dumb and evil.
370 | jaunte May 27, 2014 5:13:04pm |
.@DanPatrick up 60-40 over @DavidHDewhurst in early voting returns: #tx2014 pic.twitter.com/ltDkEjj9Ij
— Emily Ramshaw (@eramshaw) May 28, 2014
371 | Kragar May 27, 2014 5:14:59pm |
“I sure feel safer since that truckload of strange men with assault weapons drove up” said no one ever #tcot #uniteblue #gunsense— Kragar (@Kragar_LGF) May 27, 2014
372 | b.d. May 27, 2014 5:15:30pm |
re: #370 jaunte
[Embedded content]
Dewhurst is such a horrible campaigner that I can’t believe he ever got elected to anything in the first place.
The only hope Texans have now is that Patrick is such a giant douchebag that even his own republicans can’t work with him.
373 | Gus May 27, 2014 5:16:00pm |
374 | Belafon May 27, 2014 5:17:08pm |
376 | Justanotherhuman May 27, 2014 5:20:17pm |
I suppose because it wasn’t about him, Godwald did not tweet one time (nor did anyone else) about Snowden’s interview with Brian Williams.
The Russians are going to have to pay for a lot of plastic surgery to protect their “asset”.
377 | danarchy May 27, 2014 5:21:27pm |
re: #353 klys
Placing here, because I am ashamed to admit I hadn’t really thought about this and it’s a good reminder for all pet owners:
Shared with permission from a friend who is a vet.
Luckily my regular pet sitter is also my vet who also happens to be an old college friend as well :)
378 | Stanley Sea May 27, 2014 5:23:30pm |
379 | klys May 27, 2014 5:23:41pm |
re: #377 danarchy
Luckily my regular pet sitter is also my vet who also happens to be an old college friend as well :)
Yeah, in a lot of cases you can skate by (and honestly, if we lived close enough she would probably be our pet sitter - although not our vet, because she likes to maintain some emotional distance from clients, but she’s always happy to provide a second opinion) but …for a lot of us, it’s good to have it out and in writing.
380 | Killgore Trout May 27, 2014 5:24:09pm |
Libyan Islamists to U.S.: Don’t interfere or face worse than Iraq
Mohamed Zahawi, head of the Benghazi brigade of Ansar al-Sharia, accused the U.S. government of backing renegade former general Khalifa Haftar, who has begun a self-declared campaign to purge Libya of Islamist militants.
“We remind America, if they intervene, of their defeats in Afghanistan, Iraq and Somalia, because they would face in Libya something much worse,” he said in a statement. “It was America who urged Haftar to turn the country towards war and bloodshed.”
381 | GeneJockey May 27, 2014 5:25:07pm |
382 | Justanotherhuman May 27, 2014 5:26:53pm |
Quickly becoming Snowjob’s favorite disguise.
383 | TedStriker May 27, 2014 5:28:49pm |
384 | b.d. May 27, 2014 5:29:54pm |
NO WAY!!!!
NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden says he has more revelations about Washington’s spying on German citizens, but Berlin is reluctant to invite him to testify because Germany has used the exact same surveillance methods as the US, Stern magazine reported.
via our friends at:
rt.com
I WONDER IF GREENWALD WILL PUBLISH THE NAMES OF THE PEOPLE GERMANY HAS BEEN SPYING ON!?
385 | Skip Intro May 27, 2014 5:30:10pm |
re: #381 GeneJockey
Could God throw a fastball so fast he himself couldn’t hit it?
I don’t know why we never talked about things like this when I went to church.
386 | Justanotherhuman May 27, 2014 5:30:47pm |
Victim’s Father Speaks at Memorial During “Day of Mourning and Reflection”
Students and victims’ family members attended a memorial Tuesday evening for those killed in Isla Vista
Video.
387 | b.d. May 27, 2014 5:32:57pm |
re: #381 GeneJockey
Could God throw a fastball so fast he himself couldn’t hit it?
If he put on an Astros uniform, yes.
388 | jaunte May 27, 2014 5:33:24pm |
More Texas Primary news from the Texas Observer:
Sid Miller, the walking caricature who’s the favorite for agriculture commissioner in the race against former state Rep. Tommy Merritt, has Ted Nugent as his campaign treasurer and a relative lack of agriculture experience. He’s centered his campaign around abortion and other red meat issues, making explicit he was doing so in part because ag commissioner is a stepping stone to other statewide office. His aide also accused Merritt of having sex with a prostitute in the Capitol parking garage when he was in the Legislature. Texas farmers can look forward to another four years of expert, technocratic stewardship at the Texas Department of Agriculture.
texasobserver.org
390 | Varek Raith May 27, 2014 5:36:12pm |
re: #366 Gus
So if a massive asteroid was making a beeline for Earth… oh never mind.
Let’s find out!
*Fiddles with mass driver*
392 | palomino May 27, 2014 5:42:41pm |
re: #118 Killgore Trout
I would have preferred we leave behind a stable democracy. I’m not expecting perfection but something along the lines of Iraq. Sure, stuff blows up sometimes, there’s a bit of ethnic/religious tension but the government is stable and not in danger of collapsing or being overthrown. I don;t think we’re leaving behind a stable government in Afghanistan.
The hubris and ignorance in that statement are amazing.
We don’t control the world, and we can’t, despite the fantasies of many on the right. We can’t just invade countries and make them democratic. Sorry, but we don’t actually “create our own reality”, as the Bush Administration found out the hard and bloody way. And Iraq is still a shithole. How many failed adventures abroad do we need before Americans realize this?
393 | EmmaAnne May 27, 2014 5:57:08pm |
re: #306 Charles Johnson
It’s one of those back problems that nothing really helps - I’ve tried pretty much everything. From an old injury. When it acts up, all I can really do is wait it out.
Is it doing that spasming thing? I hate that spasming thing. :-(
394 | Killgore Trout May 27, 2014 5:59:34pm |
re: #392 palomino
Yes there seems to be much outrage wishing there was a brighter future for the people of Afghanistan. I know it seems incomprehensible but Obama probably wishes the same. Even that evil George Bush wishes it too. Oh, well. I wish the Afghan people a better future but you don’t have to.
395 | klys May 27, 2014 6:05:18pm |
re: #394 Killgore Trout
Yes there seems to be much outrage wishing there was a brighter future for the people of Afghanistan. I know it seems incomprehensible but Obama probably wishes the same. Even that evil George Bush wishes it too. Oh, well. I wish the Afghan people a better future but you don’t have to.
It is possible to wish the people in Afghanistan a better future and want US troops out of there. It is possible to wish the people in Afghanistan a better future and recognize that no amount of imposing democracy on them was going to magically fix things and make it better without addressing the underlying issues that have allowed that culture to flourish - a commitment that probably would have required decades (if completable) and one we can’t even fucking finish at home.
396 | Killgore Trout May 27, 2014 6:10:37pm |
re: #395 klys
It is possible to wish the people in Afghanistan a better future and want US troops out of there. It is possible to wish the people in Afghanistan a better future and recognize that no amount of imposing democracy on them was going to magically fix things and make it better without addressing the underlying issues that have allowed that culture to flourish - a commitment that probably would have required decades (if completable) and one we can’t even fucking finish at home.
Agreed. There were a lot of obstacles (cultural, religious, geo-political, etc). I see nothing wrong with wishing the obstacles could have been overcome.
397 | palomino May 27, 2014 6:11:54pm |
re: #394 Killgore Trout
Yes there seems to be much outrage wishing there was a brighter future for the people of Afghanistan. I know it seems incomprehensible but Obama probably wishes the same. Even that evil George Bush wishes it too. Oh, well. I wish the Afghan people a better future but you don’t have to.
I wish all people a better future, even college kids who protest against Wall Street and economic inequality. I even wish a better future for you, because your present clearly doesn’t add up to much.
You have no arguments. You merely cut and paste, shuck and jive, then get snippy when challenged.
398 | CuriousLurker May 27, 2014 6:13:45pm |
re: #395 klys
He’s playing head games again—just leave it alone, it’s not worth the agita.
399 | Bubblehead II May 27, 2014 6:14:21pm |
re: #337 b.d.
It was a nice 3 day weekend and though the calender says today is Tuesday, it sure felt like a Monday.
Today is your Friday? What are you going to do for your weekend?
Sat/Weds Laundry day sitting on my ass hanging out here at LGF and perusing the various news channels* and cooking dinner.
Sun/Thurs sitting on my ass hanging out here at LGF and perusing the various news channels* and cooking dinner.
// I have a real exciting life.
* Unless the Mrs has a Honey Do list for me.
* Only one item on it (so far) for this weekend. Spray the rock gardens and fence lines with roundup.
400 | klys May 27, 2014 6:16:50pm |
re: #398 CuriousLurker
He’s playing head games again—just leave it alone, it’s not worth the agita.
I will take your advice.
401 | palomino May 27, 2014 6:16:57pm |
re: #398 CuriousLurker
He’s playing head games again—just leave it alone, it’s not worth the agita.
You’re absolutely right. Because KT doesn’t converse with good faith or sincerity. He’s the kind of fool who mistakes nonconformity with intellectual courage.
Best to ignore or insult him. He deserves nothing more.
402 | Bubblehead II May 27, 2014 6:28:29pm |
re: #399 Bubblehead II
Sat/Weds Laundry day sitting on my ass hanging out here at LGF and perusing the various news channels* and cooking dinner.
Sun/Thurs sitting on my ass hanging out here at LGF and perusing the various news channels* and cooking dinner.
// I have a real exciting life.
* Unless the Mrs has a Honey Do list for me.
* Only one item on it (so far) for this weekend. Spray the rock gardens and fence lines with roundup.
Also forgot to add. Doing you tube searches for vids and music.