In New Orleans, Traditional Public Schools Close for Good

NOLA is now 100% charter school territory
Education • Views: 60,772

The aftermath of Hurricane Katrina gave advocates of charter schools and the privatization of public education a rare chance: a blank slate on which to construct their utopian plan of childhood education.

There are now no traditional public schools in New Orleans. They’ve all been replaced by charter schools, which are run by non-public entities but still have access to public funding.

Some say the new system has improved the quality of education in NOLA, but it’s hard to make valid comparisons, since thousands of schoolchildren never returned to the city after Katrina. The demographics of the city have changed too much.

One thing is sure, the demographics of the teaching force has changed. Experienced teachers, mostly African-American, were replaced with eager (and cheaper), but inexperienced Teach for America recruits. And, curiously, some schools’ student populations are mostly white while others are mostly black.

After Katrina, the Orleans Parish School Board fired more than 7,000 employees — nearly all of them African American — while the charter schools hired scores of young teachers, many of them white recruits from Teach for America. The fired teachers sued for wrongful termination and won a judgment that could total more than $1 billion.

White students disproportionately attend the best charter schools, while the worst are almost exclusively populated by African American students. Activists in New Orleans joined with others in Detroit and Newark last month to file a federal civil rights complaint, alleging that the city’s best-performing schools have admissions policies that exclude African American children. Those schools are overseen by the separate Orleans Parish School Board, and they don’t participate in OneApp, the city’s centralized school enrollment lottery.

More: In New Orleans, Traditional Public Schools Close for Good

Coincidence. I think not. Charter schools allow education “reformers” the ability to do what they really wanted to do in the first place: re-segregate the schools and separate parents from governance of the schools.

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161 comments
1 Dark_Falcon  Jun 1, 2014 4:57:36am

Graduation rates are up, as are test scores. Remember how badly the schools in New Orleans were failing prior to Katrina and consider the new charter regime as the progress that it is.

As for that activist lawsuit: Their accusation by itself means nothing. The top charter middle and high schools in NO most likely just maintain academic standards for admission that black students have a harder time meeting (for economic and to some extent social reasons).

2 The War TARDIS  Jun 1, 2014 7:20:24am

And thus ends the American Dream in New Orleans. Charters only care for one thing. Money. Thus the poor will be turned out.

I have become a lot less tolerant to compromise with things like this. The charter activists say it is all about competition. Well, we’re is it now? There isn’t any free schooling, and you know they will raise the cost over what the vouchers will cover.

I like the Norwegian idea. No private schools at all.

3 FemNaziBitch  Jun 1, 2014 7:56:30am

Graduation rates may be up, but what have they learned?

4 calochortus  Jun 1, 2014 7:57:53am

re: #1 Dark_Falcon

Graduation rates are up, as are test scores. Remember how badly the schools in New Orleans were failing prior to Katrina and consider the new charter regime as the progress that it is.

As for that activist lawsuit: Their accusation by itself means nothing. The top charter middle and high schools in NO most likely just maintain academic standards for admission that black students have a harder time meeting (for economic and to some extent social reasons).

[bolding mine]

And therein lies a world of problems. These schools have replaced public schools that were required to take all comers. Now they can cherry pick their students. Great for test scores, not so great for education. Additionally, as was pointed out, the demographics of the area have changed, so comparisons over time are not necessarily meaningful.

5 FemNaziBitch  Jun 1, 2014 7:58:33am

I can tell you that in my part of the world, Public Schools are competition to the Private Schools. If they don’t provide value for the tuition, parents pull them out. Having been on the board of a small private school, I can tell you that the phrase “they will send their kids to public school if we … .” is often heard.

Lack of choice is NEVER good for the consumer.

6 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Jun 1, 2014 11:08:17am

re: #1 Dark_Falcon

Graduation rates are up, as are test scores. Remember how badly the schools in New Orleans were failing prior to Katrina and consider the new charter regime as the progress that it is.

Comparing pre-Katrina and post-Katrina means comparing two different things. This was actually said by Wheat, and you appear to have ignored it. Why?

but it’s hard to make valid comparisons, since thousands of schoolchildren never returned to the city after Katrina. The demographics of the city have changed too much.

7 Charles Johnson  Jun 1, 2014 11:12:21am

A large number of these charter schools are overtly religious and teach anti-science quackery like creationism and climate change denial. Kids’ test scores may be “up,” but that means nothing if they’re being indoctrinated with bullshit and then tested to see if they regurgitate it properly.

The American Enterprise Institute and other right wing groups saw their opportunity after Katrina and seized it. This is their vision for the whole country, make no mistake about it.

8 Plantsmantx  Jun 1, 2014 11:19:29am

When some kids get “counseled out” of these charter schools, where will they go?

9 kirkspencer  Jun 1, 2014 11:25:19am

The test scores rose for six years. Last year, for some reason, they were flat. It was a statewide issue but they stayed flat. Oh yes, speaking of statewide, test scores for the state increased statewide since Katrina as well. In most cases those scores were well below pre-Katrina and have basically come up to that level.

In other words, it’s hard to ascribe it to charter schools when it’s a state-wide phenomenon.

Re the case, here’s the thing. The charter schools are heavily segregated, to an extent not allowed in public schools. And those test scores and other results just happen to be wildly divergent with the wealthier and white-dominated schools doing better. How much better? The average “meets basic and above” for New Orleans is 67%. In those schools it’s 85%.

That little excuse you used, DF? That “it’s just the black students have difficulty meeting application standards due to social and culture reasons” thing? Did you really think about it, how racist that sounds? Did you think at all that even when application standards vary, educational material and support should be aimed at getting the whole system to have equivalent graduation rates? That maybe even taking the effort to help the kids who are suffering from worse backgrounds succeed might be a good thing for us all?

Did you realize you echoed some of the worst of the racist remarks of pre-segregated schools and responses to Brown?

If not, maybe, please, you could do so?

10 jaunte  Jun 1, 2014 11:28:19am
“After Katrina, the Orleans Parish School Board fired more than 7,000 employees — nearly all of them African American — while the charter schools hired scores of young teachers, many of them white recruits from Teach for America. The fired teachers sued for wrongful termination and won a judgment that could total more than $1 Billion.”

And still somehow the change is being spun as a savings for taxpayers.

11 A Mom Anon  Jun 1, 2014 11:28:45am

I was wondering about a few things here:

1)What happens to kids with autism and learning disabilities? Since these are essentially private schools, then no accommodations have to be made as far as a friendly learning environment. And since these are profit driven schools that are going to use test scores as a big measure of their success, there are no incentives to include children with disabilities in their schools. So what happens to these children then?

2)What happens if you can’t afford any tuition? Those vouchers don’t pay the whole tab, and some of these schools are more expensive than college. The one down the road from us costs 12-16K a year. A voucher covers not quite 9K. Does this mean your kid simply can’t go to school or you have no option but to homeschool?

3) Charter schools don’t have a record of doing any better than public schools. What I don’t get is that if the public schools are lacking, why can’t the money that would be given to those charters be invested in the public schools?

4)When in the hell are people going to understand that privatization means that there’s no longer accountability in any form to the taxpayers, only to the private company CEOs and shareholders?

12 jaunte  Jun 1, 2014 11:29:16am
New Orleans Public Schools Employees Justice
(nopsejustice.com)

The Fourth Circuit Court of Appeal issued its ruling on January 15, 2014. OPSB and the State Defendants have asked the Louisiana Supreme Court to review the ruling. We have also asked the Louisiana Supreme Court to review the ruling, for the purpose of asking the Louisiana Supreme Court to reinstate Judge Julien’s entire ruling.

nopsejustice.com

13 Eclectic Cyborg  Jun 1, 2014 11:35:03am

Id love to know what made them think they could fire 7000 black people and not get any blowback.

14 ObserverArt  Jun 1, 2014 11:38:54am

Wow. I wonder if Dark will make his way back to this thread? He’s got some ‘splaining to do.

We still live in a democratic republic right? Sometimes it gets real hard to tell. But I am always amazed how often some forget that ‘public’ part of the word.

Public schools were one of the best thing that ever happened with democracy.

Lack of them will be one of the foundations that will, when removed, topple that same democracy.

15 Charles Johnson  Jun 1, 2014 11:42:18am
16 Sophist, D.D., DDS, DFH  Jun 1, 2014 11:44:32am

re: #1 Dark_Falcon

As for that activist lawsuit: Their accusation by itself means nothing. The top charter middle and high schools in NO most likely just maintain academic standards for admission that black students have a harder time meeting (for economic and to some extent social reasons).

Poll taxes and literacy tests weren’t racist, they just maintained standards that black voters had a harder time meeting (for economic and to some extent social reasons).

17 Stanley Sea  Jun 1, 2014 11:44:38am

re: #7 Charles Johnson

Watching Fargo finally. Pretty damn good.

18 Charles Johnson  Jun 1, 2014 11:49:13am

re: #9 kirkspencer

Did you realize you echoed some of the worst of the racist remarks of pre-segregated schools and responses to Brown?

Exactly. I feel like the clock rolled back 60 years.

19 Backwoods_Sleuth  Jun 1, 2014 11:51:07am

re: #1 Dark_Falcon

gahhhh….

Rain in forecast rest of the week…gonna go play in real dirt.

20 Killgore Trout  Jun 1, 2014 11:51:47am

Obama’s new antiterrorism initiative isn’t being well recieved, nobody’s quite sure what it is
Obama Asks for a $5 Billion Blank Check to Fight Terror—and Congress Doesn’t Want to Sign

That’s not going to be enough clarity for a Congress that is already skeptical of the administration’s approach to counterterrorism and inclined against granting President Obama the authority to spend billions of taxpayer dollars in a tight fiscal environment, said Gordon Adams, who served as the top national security budget official in the Clinton White House.

“It’s a mystery fund. It’s sadly typical that they haven’t worked through the details. The worst thing is to announce an initiative and never to have told the committees of jurisdiction,” he said. “Congress’s instinctive reaction when surprised is to rise up in resistance.”

The proposed fund is too broad and vague, Adams said. Creating a multibillion-dollar fund to fight terrorism ignores the divergent causes and symptoms of conflict and violence in different countries, such as Pakistan, Mali, or Syria, he said.

“Terrorism is a tactic, it’s not a thing. They have now defined the United States as being in a global confrontation with a tactic, which is different everywhere it appears,” Adams said.

21 Gus  Jun 1, 2014 11:56:06am

re: #19 Backwoods_Sleuth

gahhhh….

[Embedded content]

Rain in forecast rest of the week…gonna go play in real dirt.

This is the real Doge. @WowSoDogeWow

22 ObserverArt  Jun 1, 2014 11:58:03am

Let’s make it simple for Killgore. Congress won’t support Obama on anything.

The 1 Outrage. Skip all the links to other outrages. They are all based on The 1 anyway.

(Didn’t some in the media call Obama “The One” when he first hit the scene?)

23 Backwoods_Sleuth  Jun 1, 2014 11:59:02am

re: #21 Gus

This is the real Doge. @WowSoDogeWow

so many Doges
such wise
much fun

24 Gus  Jun 1, 2014 12:00:05pm

re: #20 Killgore Trout

Obama’s new antiterrorism initiative isn’t being well recieved, nobody’s quite sure what it is
Obama Asks for a $5 Billion Blank Check to Fight Terror—and Congress Doesn’t Want to Sign

This is new how? Almost all counter terrorism budgets are “mystery budgets.” We used to call them black budgets. Please, tell me how this is different than during the Bush years. “Sign on the dotted line and we’ll take care of the rest.”

25 Charles Johnson  Jun 1, 2014 12:00:33pm

One reason why so many LA Democrats support this horrible charter school concept is because the public school system in Louisiana was horribly broken and corrupt. But they’ve made a deal with the right wing devil.

26 Killgore Trout  Jun 1, 2014 12:00:33pm

Afghans not happy
Afghans say Taliban prisoners freed by U.S. will rejoin battle

“They will definitely go back to fight, if health-wise they are able to go,” said a top official at Afghanistan’s spy agency, who asked to remain anonymous because of the sensitivity of the topic.

“They will be very dangerous people, because they have connections with regional and international terror organizations around the world.”

The Taliban denied the prisoners would return to battle but said the swap should not be regarded as a gesture of good will or a step towards the revival of peace talks between Islamist insurgents and the Afghan government.

“This is purely a negotiation between the Taliban and the Americans… It won’t help the peace process in any way, because we don’t believe in the peace process,” said Taliban spokesman Zabihullah Mujahid.

27 Gus  Jun 1, 2014 12:00:44pm

re: #23 Backwoods_Sleuth

so many Doges
such wise
much fun

Kabosu. Rescue dog from Japan. They’re not good at the meme thing as much but that’s the dog.

28 A Mom Anon  Jun 1, 2014 12:01:00pm

re: #14 ObserverArt

I live in one of the supposed top districts in GA. I am STILL pissed off that the quality of my son’s education was pretty much crap after about 7th grade. I do not however blame the teachers. With the exception of maybe 3 in 13 yrs of school, we encountered nothing but professionals who wanted to do the best they could do for the students. I kick myself every day for not moving my son to a different high school in our district that had a vocational program. Gah! I could rant about that forever, I’ll spare you all that one.

What was lacking was within the school board and the administration. I often wondered if any of these people had ever set foot in a classroom after they left their own education. Public schools have been defunded, the standards have been fucked with and lowered, stuff that worked just fine in previous generations (how math is taught for one) was scrapped for bullshit programs that cost a fortune and failed the kids as an “experiment in innovative teaching”. Budget cuts ALWAYS involve teacher salaries, programs in arts, music, or anything outside of STEM, special education after grade 5, and a host of other needed things. Meanwhile, our county is paying the head of the school board over a half million dollar salary which includes a car and housing allowance. We’re on our third superintendent in 5 yrs, the last one before this new hire was “an innovator from Texas” who refused to speak to any parents outside his schmoozing for the job when he was being considered for the job. He’s gone now, and they’ve brought in another “innovator”. I guess I should be glad I don’t have another kid in the system to be experimented on.

They’re breaking the schools so they can say they don’t work. Then they can sell off the infrastructure piece by piece. It’s what happens when people believe that there’s no need for public anything. I wonder how long it will take before the schools in NOLA are deemed an expensive failure and how many kids will be failed in the meantime. The whole thing stinks and it’s SO foolish.

29 Gus  Jun 1, 2014 12:01:10pm

re: #26 Killgore Trout

Afghans not happy
Afghans say Taliban prisoners freed by U.S. will rejoin battle

Guess I should have voted for Romney.

30 J A P  Jun 1, 2014 12:02:29pm

re: #7 Charles Johnson

I have quite understood why humanist or other similar groups haven’t sought to open charter schools. In some areas there may need to be a response of “if you can’t beat them join them.”

Although in general I support public schools, I can feel for the people in areas like New Orleans where the public schools were not function. However, I’m worried about the sense that we no longer understand what the word “public” means. There are some things that aren’t simply commodities. When I was growing up my parents, and many other parents, made there feelings about various issues known to the school.

31 Killgore Trout  Jun 1, 2014 12:03:10pm

re: #24 Gus

This is new how? Almost all counter terrorism budgets are “mystery budgets.” We used to call them black budgets. Please, tell me how this is different than during the Bush years. “Sign on the dotted line and we’ll take care of the rest.”

No, it doesn’t seem significantly different from previous plans

The last time the Obama administration proposed such a fund, Congress rejected the proposal. The State Department held an elaborate rollout in 2011 for its request for $770 million to start a Middle East and North Africa (MENA) fund, to respond to the events of the Arab Spring.

Congress refused to appropriate the money out of concern there were scant specifics about how the money would be spent. Ambassador Bill Taylor, former head of the MENA Transitions Office at the State Department, said Wednesday perhaps this time would be different.

32 Backwoods_Sleuth  Jun 1, 2014 12:04:02pm

re: #27 Gus

Kabosu. Rescue dog from Japan. They’re not good at the meme thing as much but that’s the dog.

yep

33 Gus  Jun 1, 2014 12:05:08pm

re: #31 Killgore Trout

No, it doesn’t seem significantly different from previous plans

Welp. Guess Josh Rogin can go back to RTing Michelle Malkin.

34 jayjaybear  Jun 1, 2014 12:06:09pm

re: #28 A Mom Anon

They’re breaking the schools so they can say they don’t work. Then they can sell off the infrastructure piece by piece. It’s what happens when people believe that there’s no need for public anything. I wonder how long it will take before the schools in NOLA are deemed an expensive failure and how many kids will be failed in the meantime. The whole thing stinks and it’s SO foolish.

Note how similar this tactic is to that of the vulture capitalists like Mitt Romney. In the process of taking over a company, they manage to get the company so far in debt that the only way to make the deal work is to carve the company up and sell it out from under them.

It’s inherently destructive to everything involved except for the instigator’s personal wealth.

35 William Barnett-Lewis  Jun 1, 2014 12:06:36pm

And so the creation of a generation of serfs begins. They won’t be taught real science, history or civics I’ll bet. They won’t know what they’re missing and won’t mind their children being taught the same lies.

And when they succeed in showing how easy it is to create good little drones that only know how to obey, the GOP will rush to duplicate this nightmare nationwide.

They will be taught to cheer as their freedom and their ability to make their lives better is destroyed.

So much for the “American Dream”.

36 Killgore Trout  Jun 1, 2014 12:07:43pm

Taliban claims freed U.S. soldier taught captors badminton, celebrated Christmas with them

While the militants attempted to teach the soldier about Islam and provided him with religious books, he preferred more earthly pursuits.

“He would spend more time playing badminton or helping with cooking,” the militant chief said.

“He loved badminton and always played badminton with his handlers, in fact he taught many fighters about the game,” he added.

And the Idaho native made a point of celebrating the Christian festivals he was accustomed to back home, inviting his captors to participate.

“He never missed his religious festivals. He used to tell his handlers they were coming up weeks before Christmas and Easter and celebrated it with them,” he said.

37 Gus  Jun 1, 2014 12:08:38pm

We go from Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden being the most dangerous men in the world followed by their deaths and now suddenly 5 third rate commanders are the most dangerous people on the planet. What a load of fucking paranoid “class of 2004” bullshit. Fuck off.

38 Gus  Jun 1, 2014 12:09:02pm

re: #36 Killgore Trout

Taliban claims freed U.S. soldier taught captors badminton, celebrated Christmas with them

Maybe they did. Who the hell cares.

39 Killgore Trout  Jun 1, 2014 12:10:39pm

re: #38 Gus

Maybe they did. Who the hell cares.

I take the Taliban’s words on the conditions of his captivity with a grain of salt. We’ll learn more soon enough.

40 Sophist, D.D., DDS, DFH  Jun 1, 2014 12:14:34pm

re: #20 Killgore Trout

“Terrorism is a tactic, it’s not a thing. They have now defined the United States as being in a global confrontation with a tactic, which is different everywhere it appears,” Adams said.

The fact that someone is writing this in two-thousand-and-fucking-fourteen is hilarious.

41 ObserverArt  Jun 1, 2014 12:15:25pm

re: #39 Killgore Trout

I take the Taliban’s words on the conditions of his captivity with a grain of salt. We’ll learn more soon enough.

You have 100 lb. bags of salt around your place don’t you?

: )

42 psddluva4evah  Jun 1, 2014 12:20:07pm

I live in New Orleans. I was born and raised here. Everyone of my family members including myself attended public school prior to Katrina, we have 3 proud public school educated college graduates including myself in my immediate family alone, and a number of extended young relations in college now who were educated by public education pre-Katrina.

I do not have children, but I do have a nephew. I have young cousin with young kids who attend charter schools and the like. My cousin has 5 children ranging from the age of 17 - 5. Of those 5 kids, each one attend a different charter school in 5 different areas of the city, with 5 different school year scheduling and class day schedule. The youngest ones ride the school bus to school and the teens take public transportation.

In my cousin’t neighborhood alone, there are perfectly fine public school buildings that have been gated and boarded since right after Katrina (now going on 10 years). The two older children are attending charter schools where the classroom are still being taught in trailers ala construction sites.

My nephew, who’s 14 is going to attend high school next year. Less public schools, mean less spaces available for students. So you have a “lottery” at each charter school where students apply and are “selected” based on criteria and any kid who doesn’t meet the criteria is “wait-listed” and put into a lottery system and are essentially send to whatever school is left.

So with no public school system to think of, you now have parents trying to get their kids into the BEST charter school, but because of the selection process, those who do not meet criteria are places at whatever “not quite the BEST” school that is available.

My sister cannot afford to send my nephew to a private Catholic school, so she had my nephew taking entry exams at the few remaining schools that allows entry testing. He did well on the exam, but he was wait listed cause like every other parent in NOLA. Luckily though she completed applications for as many of the “better” but not “BEST” schools left in the city. He got into a good one, but he was the lucky one.

My cousin’s kids on the other will still be attending 5 different schools and when her youngest 3 are old enough for high school, she’s hoping maybe for better odds for her kids.

43 A Mom Anon  Jun 1, 2014 12:21:44pm

re: #35 William Barnett-Lewis

Wait til the kids hit time to graduate and try to make it into colleges around the country. I think that’s going to end up being the real test, if you’ll pardon the expression.

This is only anecdotal, so take that for what it’s worth, but here’s what I’ve noticed among the Class of 2012 (my son’s graduating class).

The kids who initially got sports scholarships are no longer in their original schools. Some dropped out entirely and are working in restaurants and retail. The ones who are still in school are in smaller community colleges vs. the state schools they were in to begin with. I know three kids who simply couldn’t keep up with the demands of college level classes and left because their grades were not even close to what they had to be. Many of them cannot spell for shit, can’t tell you where stuff is on a map, know nothing about history or basic science. This is a fairly affluent area, I shudder to think what the schools are like in the poorer part of the county. For all the talk, and all the parents with college degrees here, there doesn’t seem to be much value placed on education by their children.

6 of my son’s classmates are now parents to new babies, all born within the last 3 months. 8 if you count the two girls who had babies the year after graduation. None of them are in college now, they are all trying to work and raise babies, some with the help of family, some on their own or with the help of the other parent. I don’t know how the ones without family help are going to make it. I’m praying they all make it.

I am sure we need to update some of what we do in schools. But I also think a lot of things were “fixed” that weren’t broken in the first place. We had to have been doing some things right at some point, our public schools created the people who made space flight and medical advances and a bunch of other things possible. What the hell happened?

44 William Barnett-Lewis  Jun 1, 2014 12:24:26pm

re: #43 A Mom Anon

What the hell happened?

People who refuse to pay to keep up infrastructure - and public education is infrastructure - because of X, Y or Z… all of which boils down to greed.

45 J A P  Jun 1, 2014 12:24:31pm

re: #1 Dark_Falcon

As for that activist lawsuit: Their accusation by itself means nothing. The top charter middle and high schools in NO most likely just maintain academic standards for admission that black students have a harder time meeting (for economic and to some extent social reasons).

It’s interesting that I made a totally different set up assumptions than you did. The article doesn’t give enough information to know. I tried looking for more information and came across this article, The Link between Charter School Expansion and Increased Segregation.

46 Killgore Trout  Jun 1, 2014 12:25:07pm

re: #41 ObserverArt

You have 100 lb. bags of salt around your place don’t you?

: )

and an extra big bullshit shovel

47 J A P  Jun 1, 2014 12:32:53pm

re: #11 A Mom Anon

This might interest you. I came across it by accident.

When in the hell are people going to understand that privatization means that there’s no longer accountability in any form to the taxpayers, only to the private company CEOs and shareholders?

I suspect that the people promoting charter schools understand this very well.

48 William Barnett-Lewis  Jun 1, 2014 12:36:37pm

re: #47 J A P

This might interest you. I came across it by accident.

I suspect that the people promoting charter schools understand this very well.

Charter schools remain the best way for corporations to steal tax money that should have been used to educated children.

49 Charles Johnson  Jun 1, 2014 12:38:55pm

That’s right. Everyone who criticizes The Mighty Greenwald is a mindless subservient shill for Obama.

50 Kid A  Jun 1, 2014 12:39:27pm

Look, it’s very simple. Any idea that comes from a Republican should be considered bullshit until proven otherwise which is, well, hell will freeze over before that happens.

51 Charles Johnson  Jun 1, 2014 12:49:02pm

That MSNBC clip Greenwald is responding to is just ludicrous. Steve Kornacki, who I like in other contexts, just parrots every single one of Snowden/Greenwald’s claims without a hint of skepticism. Calls Snowden a “whistleblower.” Bah.

52 William Barnett-Lewis  Jun 1, 2014 12:49:41pm

Later folks. Got a few things to do.

53 CuriousLurker  Jun 1, 2014 12:53:03pm

re: #46 Killgore Trout

BTW, was this comment of yours from last night directed at me? It seems that it must have been given your reference to “stuff I wrote 7 years ago”, but I can’t be sure since you neglected to use the reply or quote button, which would have notified me of your response (an innocent oversight on your part, I’m sure).

54 Charles Johnson  Jun 1, 2014 12:53:13pm

Ben Wizner flat out lies at several points in that clip.

55 Rightwingconspirator  Jun 1, 2014 12:59:25pm

Just to further illustrate what a desperate corner failing public schools put parents and their poor kids in, lets remember what school systems are willing to do to enforce their rules which are often unwise.

Perhaps we recall mandatory busing that was a social engineering attempt that disenfranchised parents from choosing schools via their residential location. Move to a place with better schools, wind up with your kids commuting on a bus to a lessor school. A double disadvantage for the kid. That so stressed my stepfather he helped found an anti busing coalition of parents and an rally that drew a national network and 6000+ people. It also almost killed him with high blood pressure. Ordinary citizens can break under the strain of media and politics when it’s their kids on the line.

Cheat on your address to get your kid in school and wind up in jail. in jail for chrissakes. WTF.

Home schooling has a reputation of being a thing for creationist/revisionist parents. I do not deny that happens. But I still support home schooling for where the public schools are inadequate. Like LAUSD. Let the parents upgrade without fear of jail. Let parents of humble means choose the best school available that is near enough.

When geography, bigotry and money all stand in the way let the parents have an option. Even if that appears to be a politically awkward option. Some of those options are political/partisan hot buttons.

Too freaking bad, the kids quality education must be the very first priority. Nothing else matters by comparison.

“Common Core” “Charter school” “Vouchers”

Nobody would want these things where public education is good in their zip code. I can not hold it against a parent for being for any of those oh so controversial policies given inadequate schools down the street.

Fix the schools or be prepared to live with policies that could include the scary 3 above that piss you off even worse than the inadequacies in public school.

I don’t care what it takes. The answer is not just money. It’s management. It’s a certain non bigoted honesty in policies. It’s drawing in good committed educators as teachers. Low administrative overhead. Comfortable uncrowded class rooms. Current texts.

We have seen vast amounts of money spent in some places and those things still not happen. That’s the greed part that has to go.

is money per student and educational test results a tightly wound correlation? I don’t think so.

56 Pie-onist Overlord  Jun 1, 2014 1:07:04pm

Here is the whole wheat vegan challah:

58 CuriousLurker  Jun 1, 2014 1:20:56pm

re: #54 Charles Johnson

If you’re watching, I noticed yesterday that on the left hand sidebar where you have feeds from various blogs & news sources that the one for lawhawk’s blog isn’t pointing to the right place—all I get is a blank RSS feed page.

Edit: Looks like his working feed is here.

59 Charles Johnson  Jun 1, 2014 1:24:33pm

re: #58 CuriousLurker

Thanks - fixed it.

60 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Jun 1, 2014 1:37:53pm

re: #55 Rightwingconspirator

Home schooling has a reputation of being a thing for creationist/revisionist parents. I do not deny that happens. But I still support home schooling for where the public schools are inadequate. Like LAUSD. Let the parents upgrade without fear of jail. Let parents of humble means choose the best school available that is near enough.

When geography, bigotry and money all stand in the way let the parents have an option. Even if that appears to be a politically awkward option. Some of those options are political/partisan hot buttons.

I’m not really sure what you’re saying here. Parents of humble means won’t be able to send their children to the ‘best’ schools because they’ll cost too much, and/or in the case of charter schools in New Orleans, they won’t get admitted anyway. The charter schools get to choose, too.

As for homeschooling, very few people are equipped to homeschool their children effectively. It’s not a solution, in general, except in corner cases.

“Common Core” “Charter school” “Vouchers”

Nobody would want these things where public education is good in their zip code. I can not hold it against a parent for being for any of those oh so controversial policies given inadequate schools down the street.

Mixing ‘common core’ in with charter schools and vouchers is weird. Why would nobody want it if their schools were good, if it could improve their schools? But anyway, even if you create charters and vouchers, it doesn’t fix the schools.

Fix the schools or be prepared to live with policies that could include the scary 3 above that piss you off even worse than the inadequacies in public school.

Again, ‘common core’ isn’t in the same category as charter schools or vouchers. And

I don’t care what it takes. The answer is not just money. It’s management. It’s a certain non bigoted honesty in policies. It’s drawing in good committed educators as teachers. Low administrative overhead. Comfortable uncrowded class rooms. Current texts.

All of these are true and good things.

We have seen vast amounts of money spent in some places and those things still not happen. That’s the greed part that has to go.

is money per student and educational test results a tightly wound correlation? I don’t think so.

Money per student and results are pretty unrelated, because money can be spent in educationally useless or anti-educational ways. For example, spending lots of money on metal detectors is sadly necessary at some schools, but it’s not going to improve anyone’s education.

That said, there are still a lot of schools with crumbling infrastructure, underpaid teachers, outdated textbooks—which you note—and in those cases, money is the issue. It also means that application of money won’t immediately fix anything, because the problems have gotten ingrained, there’s a deficit to be worked against.

There are lots of stories of public schools improving. There’s no magic bullet, not more money, not standardized testing, not introducing charter schools. It’s complicated stuff, heavily contingent on local problems and opportunities. And a public system is not a safeguard against inequity, at all, either.

61 Eclectic Cyborg  Jun 1, 2014 1:42:03pm

It will be disturbing when this is taken to its natural end game.

Imagine a poor black family in New Orleans whose child doesn’t meet the ever rising qualifications for the charter schools and they can’t afford a private school.

Now imagine that repeated times a hundred or a thousand.

Entire generations of (most black) kids locked out of anything remotely resembling an education.

That’s downright scary and as far away from American values (the real kind, not the Tea Party kind) as you can get.

62 J A P  Jun 1, 2014 1:43:57pm

re: #55 Rightwingconspirator

There is a widespread belief that public school systems are wasteful and inefficient, and that an increase in per-student funding will do little or nothing to improve student performance. Every year the College Board releases average SAT scores for college-bound high-school students by
state, and critics of public education regularly point out that some states with low per-pupil spending on schools… deliver consistently higher average SAT scores than high-spending states such as….

The College Board publishes its state average SAT I scores with an emphatic caution: “The College Board strongly discourages the comparison or ranking of states on the basis of SAT I scores alone.” The principal reason for this is that SAT I participation rates vary widely across
states. …high-scoring states typically have much lower test participation rates.

…after accounting for differences in test participation rates, per-pupil spending has a statistically significant positive correlation with mean SAT I scores.

A better measure of state-level academic performance that is not biased by varying participation rates is the National Assessment of Educational Progress (NAEP), a series of standardized tests administered periodically by the US Department of Education to students in both public and
private schools all across the US.

Most NAEP tests are specifically designed to support state-by-state comparisons of academic performance.

Figure 4 shows the positive relationship between funding and student performance. Figure 5 shows that per-pupil funding is positively and sign
ificantly correlated with the state averages for each of the individual NAEP tests as well. The (null) hypothesis that NAEP performance is not
improved by additional per-pupil funding of public schools is clearly rejected.

I’ve taken out the relevant passages. Here’s the original: Public School Funding and Performance.

63 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Jun 1, 2014 1:44:49pm

re: #61 Eclectic Cyborg

It will be disturbing when this is taken to its natural end game.

Imagine a poor black family in New Orleans whose child doesn’t meet the ever rising qualifications for the charter schools and they can’t afford a private school.

Now imagine that repeated times a hundred or a thousand.

Entire generations of (most black) kids locked out of anything remotely resembling an education.

That’s downright scary and as far away from American values (the real kind, not the Tea Party kind) as you can get.

RWC raises a good point that it was just as scary before the charter schools. The charter schools aren’t the solution, but they aren’t the problem, either. The same family facing New Orleans failing, physically dangerous public schools before Katrina also didn’t have any options.

As usual, the solution that we’re lacking is the solution for the poorest and the blackest of our country. Or “Why Ta-Nehisi Coates makes a ton of sense”.

64 Charles Johnson  Jun 1, 2014 1:45:08pm
65 Eclectic Cyborg  Jun 1, 2014 1:46:05pm

New Orleans is a great example of how we, as a country, are failing our own.

66 Shazam  Jun 1, 2014 1:49:19pm

Greenwald is what he considers his detractors to be to Obama, only to the idea that the US is evil instead.

67 Charles Johnson  Jun 1, 2014 1:50:45pm

re: #63 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

I think the reason why Democrats got on board the charter school initiative in NOLA is because the public schools really were getting awful. But this is New Orleans we’re talking about - every government office was basically corrupt at that point.

The right wing, on the other hand, pushed so hard for charter schools for a much more underhanded reason — to establish a precedent for their privatization agenda, and at the same time erode the boundaries between church and state by making it possible for these private — often religious —schools to take government funding.

That’s why I do think it’s a problem that the public school system in NOLA has been replaced by this essentially reactionary system.

68 kirkspencer  Jun 1, 2014 1:51:09pm

re: #65 Eclectic Cyborg

New Orleans is a great example of how we, as a country, are failing our own.

We’re eating our seed corn. Instead of investing in our children, our future, the people who should be the doctors and plumbers and everything else that keeps things going when we retire, we’re taking the money for our own pockets now. We - not all we, but since all of us together could reverse it we - will pay. At this point it’s inevitable. I just hope we can avoid the worst.

69 Pie-onist Overlord  Jun 1, 2014 1:54:26pm

re: #68 kirkspencer

We’re eating our seed corn. Instead of investing in our children, our future, the people who should be the doctors and plumbers and everything else that keeps things going when we retire, we’re taking the money for our own pockets now. We - not all we, but since all of us together could reverse it we - will pay. At this point it’s inevitable. I just hope we can avoid the worst.

It’s just the 1%, none of which is “we”

70 Ding-an-sich Wannabe  Jun 1, 2014 1:54:32pm

The phenomenon of soldiers converting to Islam is pretty interesting. Quite a lot of the Soviet soldiers in Afghanistan converted after capture/desertion, many still live there with families and have, for all practical purposes, become Afghans. Here’s an article about that in Russian, with photos. There’s even a movie about this phenomenon.
At least some of these conversions were indeed forced, in the sense that the soldiers were given a choice either to convert or be killed (no torture was involved as far as I know). Others converted on their own.

71 Rightwingconspirator  Jun 1, 2014 1:58:14pm

re: #60 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

I’m not really sure what you’re saying here. Parents of humble means won’t be able to send their children to the ‘best’ schools because they’ll cost too much, and/or in the case of charter schools in New Orleans, they won’t get admitted anyway. The charter schools get to choose, too.

I meant best public school. And best need not be automatically private.
My comments is meant to include NO but take in the larger picture.

Again, ‘common core’ isn’t in the same category as charter schools or vouchers.

Vouchers, charter schools and common core are in the exact same category. Which as I indicated is the category is headed “very controversial, sometimes lied about”

Where the schools are really good, there is far less pressure to want to home school, want a voucher, or need changes like common core.

So as I said I can’t hold it against a parent who goes for one of those controversial options for the sake of their kids.

72 A Mom Anon  Jun 1, 2014 2:00:02pm

re: #65 Eclectic Cyborg

So are parts of the east coast that got hammered by Hurricane Sandy that are STILL a mess.

I still don’t get the bugaboo about Common Core either. Since my kid is out of public school I honestly haven’t gone deep into it, but it looks like it’s just an attempt to have some sort of national minimum standard since within states, counties and even cities there can be some pretty vast differences in what is taught, when, and using what materials. How is that bad? Can someone tell me what the issue is with Common Core? I kinda have my doubts it’s so awful since Glenn Beck keeps saying it’s some sort of horror.

73 Lidane  Jun 1, 2014 2:05:00pm

re: #50 Kid A

Any idea that comes from a Republican should be considered bullshit until proven otherwise which is, well, hell will freeze over before that happens.

Exactly. A very solid rule to live by, IMO.

74 kirkspencer  Jun 1, 2014 2:06:39pm

re: #69 Pie-onist Overlord

It’s just the 1%, none of which is “we”

No, sorry. It’s not just the charter schools owned by the 1%. It’s the schools in districts where taxes are being cut because taxes.

I know I’ve used this example before, but Chattanooga’s school district tried to cope with yet another tax cut in a way we all say we want. They cut sports so they could keep band and a little art and keep a buffer in the number of students per class, keep it a bit below the “maximum students per room” number.

The furor probably wasn’t surprising. Letters to editors, marching protests, signs outside not only schools but every school board and commissioner meeting, all heavily focused on - you guessed it, keeping sports as they were.

An offer was actually made to the fine citizens of the city and county to pay for it all, if only they’d restore that couple of mils to the tax rate. It didn’t happen. No, they wanted their football and basketball and softball and, well, if band and art and students per class in math and science had to suffer so be it. In the end the board acquiesced. The compromise was a handful of charter schools dedicated to non-STEM.

We the people are eating our seed corn. We’re nibbling different plots for different reasons, but we’re eating our seed corn.

75 ObserverArt  Jun 1, 2014 2:06:47pm

re: #63 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

RWC raises a good point that it was just as scary before the charter schools. The charter schools aren’t the solution, but they aren’t the problem, either. The same family facing New Orleans failing, physically dangerous public schools before Katrina also didn’t have any options.

As usual, the solution that we’re lacking is the solution for the poorest and the blackest of our country. Or “Why Ta-Nehisi Coates makes a ton of sense”.

Ohio Public Schools were found unconstitutional for the way the state funded them back in 1997. They have yet to fix what the judge ordered. The Republican administration at that time was George Voinovich, and they immediately called to defy the ruling and called it judicial activism. It has been tied up ever since. We trudge on with the same real estate property tax funding as before.

Out of that came the call for Ohio to start charter schools. Our public schools are still strong in the cities, but in the rural areas it is the problem that brought the original suit. No tax base and no way to raise it. That is especially true in Ohio’s southern Appalachia areas.

Here is a Wiki page on that mess if interested: Wiki - DeRolph versus State of Ohio

76 Pie-onist Overlord  Jun 1, 2014 2:11:11pm

re: #74 kirkspencer

TL;DR

DETROIT

77 A Mom Anon  Jun 1, 2014 2:13:29pm

re: #75 ObserverArt

My daughter and grandkids live in Hocking County, the schools there are limping along with little to no money. There are no jobs, high rates of drug and alcohol abuse, ridiculous poverty and no one cares. Industry moved out years ago and left nothing behind but the old plants and the waste in rusting barrels. I worry about the kids all the time. My grandson will be 12 this year, he’s really smart but bored out of his skull and keeps getting in trouble. My daughter is hoping the money from a lawsuit (the kids were in an awful car wreck last year about this time, her idiot stepmother was driving while high on methadone, nice huh) she filed will help them get the hell out of there soon. I don’t even think charter schools would work there unless they were 100 percent government funded, no one has any money because there simply are no jobs to be had unless you can travel to Franklin county.

78 sagehen  Jun 1, 2014 2:15:00pm

re: #55 Rightwingconspirator

Home schooling. Vouchers. Charters.

What’s the common denominator here? It’s that some parents don’t want their kids mixing with “those people.” Parents of means don’t want to pay enough taxes for all the schools to be able to do a good education for all the kids.

Home schooling requires the family have enough money to have a parent in the home all day every day. Vouchers cover 3/4 of the cost of a private school, such an unfortunate coincidence that excludes the kids whose parents can’t cover the other 1/4 out of pocket. Charters take only the kids whose parents can volunteer x number of hours, or donate x number of books, nobody with any learning disabilities or physical challenges or their family can’t feed them enough and dress them warmly and their neighborhood has sirens going off all night so they don’t get enough rest.

It’s all about short-term thinking vs long-term thinking, and it’s government’s responsibility to think long. People who care only about their own family’s short-term best interest and never mind if 20 years from now half a generation is going to be adults with no skills… are just going to have to suck it up and deal with the cost of giving a damn about “those people’s” kids too.

79 jayjaybear  Jun 1, 2014 2:15:48pm

re: #46 Killgore Trout

and an extra big bullshit shovel

Ah. I figured you had some kind of special equipment with as much of it as you spread around…

80 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Jun 1, 2014 2:18:26pm

re: #67 Charles Johnson

I think the reason why Democrats got on board the charter school initiative in NOLA is because the public schools really were getting awful. But this is New Orleans we’re talking about - every government office was basically corrupt at that point.

The right wing, on the other hand, pushed so hard for charter schools for a much more underhanded reason — to establish a precedent for their privatization agenda, and at the same time erode the boundaries between church and state by making it possible for these private — often religious —schools to take government funding.

That’s why I do think it’s a problem that the public school system in NOLA has been replaced by this essentially reactionary system.

It it was a true lottery, a really randomized lottery for every student in the school district, it might be okay. But then we know what would happen, we’d just get school district lines being redrawn so that the affluent could be in the ‘right’ lottery.

Education is the prime place where we should be striving for equitable opportunities and outcomes for all students, but we don’t, and the most visible way we don’t is allowing schools to be funded through property taxes, which helps to aggravate already-existing disparities in opportunity.

81 A Mom Anon  Jun 1, 2014 2:20:15pm

re: #80 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

We also punish schools with low test score averages with taking away funding, which is just the dumbest damned thing ever. Wouldn’t the schools with the lowest test scores kind of need more resources, not less?

It’s more of this Starve the Beast mentality and it is SO going to bite us all in the ass in a generation, maybe sooner.

82 jaunte  Jun 1, 2014 2:20:35pm
83 Ding-an-sich Wannabe  Jun 1, 2014 2:21:23pm

re: #82 jaunte

Todd belongs in an institution…

84 steve_davis  Jun 1, 2014 2:21:34pm

New Orleans’ public school system was absolutely atrocious. I had a student at UNO who literally spent a year in the wrong grade because the administrative staff was so incompetent they missed a clerical error.

85 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Jun 1, 2014 2:24:37pm

re: #71 Rightwingconspirator

I meant best public school. And best need not be automatically private.
My comments is meant to include NO but take in the larger picture.

It’s never going to be possible for everyone to send their students to the ‘best’ school, though.

Vouchers, charter schools and common core are in the exact same category. Which as I indicated is the category is headed “very controversial, sometimes lied about”

But “vouchers” and “charter school” are different from “common core”. Common core is a pedagogy, the others are ways for kids to go to private schools with public funding. I mean, if the category is ‘very controversial, sometimes lied about’, why not include ‘abortion’ and ‘teaching creationism’?

Where the schools are really good, there is far less pressure to want to home school, want a voucher, or need changes like common core.

See, this is where including ‘common core’ is weird. Common core is meant to be an improvement in pedagogy. It would be something that a well-performing school would want to adopt.

So as I said I can’t hold it against a parent who goes for one of those controversial options for the sake of their kids.

Who is talking about holding it against anyone? What we’re talking about is good systemic solutions. Vouchers and charter schools aren’t solutions, at best charter schools are a minimal part of the solution. Vouchers I’ve never even understood the logic of why anyone would think they would improve outcomes overall.

And again, including ‘common core’ as something ‘parents go for’ is weird. It’s a pedagogy.

86 Rightwingconspirator  Jun 1, 2014 2:25:49pm

re: #62 J A P

I’ve taken out the relevant passages. Here’s the original: Public School Funding and Performance.

Whoa lots of data. Says California spans 8000 per pupil. Okay I need to see how that number comes together. When I divided the LAUSD budget into the student population it came out to about $9700.

6.78 Billion spent on 694,288 students.

I’m off to read through that. One paragraph I found very interesting-

Second, how states fund public education makes a difference. When funding is decomposed into
federal, state, local property tax and other local (e.g., county) components, the dominant driver of
NAEP performance is shown to be local funding. This finding supports the contention that local
funding goes hand in hand with local accountability: communities that own and control their own
schools tend to demand higher performance from them, and are likely to be more supportive of
them in turn. Public school systems that are primarily dependent on state funding generally have
lower average NAEP performances.

87 darthstar  Jun 1, 2014 2:25:58pm

re: #82 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Holy shit. Kincannon just sinks lower with every tweet.

88 Charles Johnson  Jun 1, 2014 2:26:09pm

Notice who’s out there very publicly hyping the New Orleans charter system: New Orleans District Moves to an All-Charter System.

“New Orleans continues to be the new frontier of school reform, with enormous improvements fueled by the dramatic post-Katrina expansion of charter schooling,” says Rick Hess, director of education policy studies at the American Enterprise Institute, a conservative think tank.

Whenever the AEI endorses something so strongly, it’s a good idea to start looking for the catch.

89 Dr Lizardo  Jun 1, 2014 2:27:08pm

re: #82 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Kincannon is a fucking psychopath. If someone sent that to me, there would be hell to pay.

90 The War TARDIS  Jun 1, 2014 2:27:15pm

re: #78 sagehen

Thank you, you hit the nail on the head.

91 Decatur Deb  Jun 1, 2014 2:27:39pm

re: #82 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Contain your shock and dismay. Todd has never pretended to be anything but a Republican.

92 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Jun 1, 2014 2:30:32pm

re: #86 Rightwingconspirator

The next paragraph is good, too:

Third, school system quality, indexed by NAEP performance, is correlated with higher property values generally; therefore all residents in a community benefit from strong schools. The direct positive correlation between school taxes and property values is also proved. This positive correlation between local tax per housing unit and property values suggests that most of America is under-investing in public education.

But definitely the paragraph you cited shows another problem: Even if we increase state funding, the neighborhoods themselves are still going to be impoverished. The wealth inequity growing in our country means that there’s a lot of places where this would be true, where spending would be less effective because it’s not local. There are two ways to solve the inequities of the property tax base: one is to supplement with state and federal money, which is less effective (but still highly effective, as shown by this study), and the next is to increase the wealth in those communities—or again, why Ta-Nehisi Coates is a smart dude.

93 ObserverArt  Jun 1, 2014 2:33:49pm

re: #77 A Mom Anon

My daughter and grandkids live in Hocking County, the schools there are limping along with little to no money. There are no jobs, high rates of drug and alcohol abuse, ridiculous poverty and no one cares. Industry moved out years ago and left nothing behind but the old plants and the waste in rusting barrels. I worry about the kids all the time. My grandson will be 12 this year, he’s really smart but bored out of his skull and keeps getting in trouble. My daughter is hoping the money from a lawsuit (the kids were in an awful car wreck last year about this time, her idiot stepmother was driving while high on methadone, nice huh) she filed will help them get the hell out of there soon. I don’t even think charter schools would work there unless they were 100 percent government funded, no one has any money because there simply are no jobs to be had unless you can travel to Franklin county.

Your’s is a perfect example. Hocking county as you know is the northern point of Ohio Appalachia country.

The original suit was filed by New Lexington Ohio schools, which is right on the northern Hocking County border, the seat of Perry County. I worked with a shock absorber technician from down there (drove 1.5 hours to Columbus every day) and his father was one of their school principals.

He told me in some of their schools it was raining in their classrooms in a real bad storm, and most of the ceilings were already down. Heat systems were a mess, and air conditioning wasn’t even a consideration. They had ten and twenty year old text books, very little computer equipment. As you probably know, that whole area is 95% white folk, so it doesn’t even get into the race split school issues.

So, as others have said it is economical and it seems to be glossed over with thinking that ‘they’ are fine with keeping certain groups of people right where they are. No different than many of the other issues in this country. The Fuck’Em Policy. (sorry to be crude)

94 A Mom Anon  Jun 1, 2014 2:34:22pm

re: #92 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

So how do we increase the wealth? Businesses don’t seem to want to invest in poorer areas, so short of giving them more tax incentives, what can be done?

95 jaunte  Jun 1, 2014 2:34:30pm

Memphis “Achievement School District”:

Less than a year into the New Orlean’s style rephorm-over, the Achievement School District’s numbers are off the charts. By numbers, I’m referring NOT to student test scores at the 6 ASD schools —they ranked in the 16th percentile in reading and math —but the eye popping salaries that district personnel are pulling down. Tennessee may be called the volunteer state, but in Achievement land, the “sweet salary state” might be a more accurate nickname. District head and TFA alum Christopher Barbic takes home nearly $18K —a month. A little perspective: that’s more than the governor of the state makes, and, believe or not, a hair more than Kevin Huffman, TFAster turned former Mr. Michelle Rhee turned chief rephormer for the state of Tennessee.
edushyster.com

96 calochortus  Jun 1, 2014 2:37:26pm

re: #68 kirkspencer

We’re eating our seed corn. Instead of investing in our children, our future, the people who should be the doctors and plumbers and everything else that keeps things going when we retire, we’re taking the money for our own pockets now. We - not all we, but since all of us together could reverse it we - will pay. At this point it’s inevitable. I just hope we can avoid the worst.

QFT.

Have any of the morons who don’t want to educate “those people” given a moments thought to living in a world where there are a bunch of uneducated young people making little or no money and having no future to speak of who will presumably cause trouble? Compare that to the alternative of a world where we try to educate everyone (whether that be academically or vocationally depending on aptitude and interest, not income level or skin color) so they can be contributing members of society. Their incomes will mean they have money to spend on products made by others, meaning this isn’t a zero sum game where we all have to compete for the same few resources, and we won’t be throwing away our intellectual capital.

97 Romantic Heretic  Jun 1, 2014 2:39:57pm

re: #8 Plantsmantx

When some kids get “counseled out” of these charter schools, where will they go?

The streets. Eventually they will end up dead or in jail.

It’s a form of ethnic cleansing.

98 Decatur Deb  Jun 1, 2014 2:41:27pm

Looks like I’ll miss the news when the SC and national TPGOP Leadership tells Todd Kincannon, the former state party executive director, to STFU.
We’re off to the local emergency room/BBQ emporium to toss another damn kidney stone. Hate to do that on a weekend night again, but Mr. Needle is our friend.

99 calochortus  Jun 1, 2014 2:41:32pm

re: #97 Romantic Heretic

The streets. Eventually they will end up dead or in jail.

It’s a form of ethnic cleansing.

A very expensive form. You’d think we’d be better off putting that prison money into educating people. Greater happiness for all…

100 Lidane  Jun 1, 2014 2:42:30pm

re: #1 Dark_Falcon

The top charter middle and high schools in NO most likely just maintain academic standards for admission that black students have a harder time meeting (for economic and to some extent social reasons).

WOW. This is some tone deaf bullshit right here. You DO realize this is the same exact garbage that was said to justify the Jim Crow South? Just change “academic standards for admission” to “hiring standards for employment” or “literacy/economic standards for voting” and it’s identical.

Stop knee jerking to defend every Republican and/or right wing idea. It’s not doing you any favors.

101 The War TARDIS  Jun 1, 2014 2:43:57pm

re: #100 Lidane

I try to give him leeway, but that was so far over the line.

102 Backwoods_Sleuth  Jun 1, 2014 2:46:27pm

re: #82 jaunte

[Embedded content]

and there’s the GOP of today.

103 Romantic Heretic  Jun 1, 2014 2:47:27pm

re: #35 William Barnett-Lewis

And so the creation of a generation of serfs begins. They won’t be taught real science, history or civics I’ll bet. They won’t know what they’re missing and won’t mind their children being taught the same lies.

And when they succeed in showing how easy it is to create good little drones that only know how to obey, the GOP will rush to duplicate this nightmare nationwide.

They will be taught to cheer as their freedom and their ability to make their lives better is destroyed.

So much for the “American Dream”.

Once again I think of this scene in Watchmen.

Nite Owl: What happened to us? What happened to the American Dream?

Comedian: What happened to the American Dream? It came true! Look around you. You’re living in it.

104 Decatur Deb  Jun 1, 2014 2:47:48pm

re: #102 Backwoods_Sleuth

and there’s the GOP of today.

It is until some kind of leadership convincingly demonstrates that it’s not.

105 ObserverArt  Jun 1, 2014 2:48:07pm

re: #97 Romantic Heretic

The streets. Eventually they will end up dead or in jail.

It’s a form of ethnic cleansing.

Don’t forget the first move that leads to the second results you mention. There will groups ganging up all pissed off and ready to go to the ‘better’ areas of town and even things out a bit.

And you would think that would be a concern. You trap any animal, and then once cornered they do whatever they can to get out.

And remember, we have a lot of them either right now, or ready to start practicing their second amendment rights. They too will have guns.

What a world we have the potential for. Only we can decide if that is going to be positive or negative. Seems to be some negatives building.

106 Pie-onist Overlord  Jun 1, 2014 2:48:18pm

Should I bake the cheesecake tonight, or tomorrow?

I have to work tomorrow and then go shopping, and then make blintzes & prep chicken soup.

107 psddluva4evah  Jun 1, 2014 2:49:36pm

re: #89 Dr Lizardo

I’m amazed actually, not surprised, but amazed at how quickly they’ve turned this soldier into a “HOMELAND” like betrayor!! WTF?

108 A Mom Anon  Jun 1, 2014 2:49:55pm

re: #106 Pie-onist Overlord

I vote for today. Too much to do tomorrow. You cooking fiend you.

109 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Jun 1, 2014 2:52:11pm

re: #94 A Mom Anon

So how do we increase the wealth? Businesses don’t seem to want to invest in poorer areas, so short of giving them more tax incentives, what can be done?

It’s more about decreasing wealth disparity than just increasing wealth. And a stronger and much simplified progressive taxation system, much increased inheritance taxes and capital gains tax.

That would be the basic start.

110 Pie-onist Overlord  Jun 1, 2014 2:52:46pm

re: #108 A Mom Anon

I vote for today. Too much to do tomorrow. You cooking fiend you.

I made vegan challah & vegetable soup.

My DIL said “don’t trouble yourself—I can cook for myself” but she’s going to be EXHAUSTED after a 12-hour drive.

111 darthstar  Jun 1, 2014 2:53:21pm

re: #106 Pie-onist Overlord

Should I bake the cheesecake tonight, or tomorrow?

I have to work tomorrow and then go shopping, and then make blintzes & prep chicken soup.

I’ve got a peach, nectarine and rhubarb crumble in the oven right now. Not that I need the calories, but my wife likes it when I make crumbles. We’ll eat a bit, then the rest will probably go to waste.

112 Dr Lizardo  Jun 1, 2014 2:54:45pm

re: #107 psddluva4evah

I’m amazed actually, not surprised, but amazed at how quickly they’ve turned this soldier into a “HOMELAND” like betrayor!! WTF?

It’s the byproduct of the wingnuts inherent conspiracy thinking.

Everything is a conspiracy for them. It’s a vast collective paranoid delusion.

113 sagehen  Jun 1, 2014 2:54:45pm

re: #94 A Mom Anon

So how do we increase the wealth? Businesses don’t seem to want to invest in poorer areas, so short of giving them more tax incentives, what can be done?

Higher tax rates at the top, spend the money on schools (K-12, community colleges and state universities) and libraries and public transportation and parks and public hospitals.

Keynes 101.

114 A Mom Anon  Jun 1, 2014 2:55:20pm

re: #110 Pie-onist Overlord

You are like the best MIL/Grandma/Babushka EVAR.

115 Pie-onist Overlord  Jun 1, 2014 2:57:11pm

re: #114 A Mom Anon

You are like the best MIL/Grandma/Babushka EVAR.

:)

116 ObserverArt  Jun 1, 2014 3:00:45pm

re: #109 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

It’s more about decreasing wealth disparity than just increasing wealth. And a stronger and much simplified progressive taxation system, much increased inheritance taxes and capital gains tax.

That would be the basic start.

Yes. And the minute you even begin to go down that road the ol’ socialist, communist, marxist, humanist, sharia, Nazi talk starts.

In Ohio, the judge that made the ruling basically said all the state needs to do to get constitutional was control the purse for the state instead of school districts and spread the tax monies out so that all schools get the same levels of money. Politicians all over the state fainted with that. But the minute they awoke they started bitching and using some of those ‘ists’ I listed. A liberal dream that was never even going to be considered. So, they actually considered and did nothing.

What does some judge ruling on the Ohio State Constitution have to do with anything. Pffft.

117 Dr Lizardo  Jun 1, 2014 3:02:26pm

re: #107 psddluva4evah

I’m amazed actually, not surprised, but amazed at how quickly they’ve turned this soldier into a “HOMELAND” like betrayor!! WTF?

I should add that a lot of what I’m seeing from the wingnuts is reminiscent of mass hysteria or a moral panic.

118 A Mom Anon  Jun 1, 2014 3:03:50pm

re: #113 sagehen

I don’t know how to get past the Norquist/Koch/Big Bidness axis of assholes that will fight this tooth and nail though. And it’s really deeply embedded in many of the places that need the most help. People are scared and these large entities have taken advantage of that, convincing them that some “other” is the reason their lives suck while the real culprits are hollowing out the country at an alarming rate. In order for this to happen there is going to have to be legislation and a BIG public outreach effort to educate people so they don’t run people out of office that make the right policies possible.

119 psddluva4evah  Jun 1, 2014 3:05:34pm

re: #117 Dr Lizardo

Can def see mass hysteria coming. It basically seems these dudes are the Lex Luthor to Obama’s superman (and I mean the campy Lex Luthor ala Gene Hackman, not more sinister forms). Or Dr Evil and Austin Powers. No matter what diabolical plan they come up with (or what wingnut conspiracy) they just can’t seem to fluster or shake him.

120 William Barnett-Lewis  Jun 1, 2014 3:06:47pm

re: #106 Pie-onist Overlord

Should I bake the cheesecake tonight, or tomorrow?

I have to work tomorrow and then go shopping, and then make blintzes & prep chicken soup.

Another vote for today.

121 calochortus  Jun 1, 2014 3:08:59pm

re: #106 Pie-onist Overlord

Today. Then it will be done and you won’t have to think about it.

122 sattv4u2  Jun 1, 2014 3:10:20pm

re: #106 Pie-onist Overlord

Should I bake the cheesecake tonight, or tomorrow?

I have to work tomorrow and then go shopping, and then make blintzes & prep chicken soup.

Am I getting a slice?

If not ,,,, don’t matter!!!

123 Dr Lizardo  Jun 1, 2014 3:10:54pm

re: #119 psddluva4evah

Can def see mass hysteria coming. It basically seems these dudes are the Lex Luthor to Obama’s superman (and I mean the campy Lex Luthor ala Gene Hackman, not more sinister forms). Or Dr Evil and Austin Powers. No matter what diabolical plan they come up with (or what wingnut conspiracy) they just can’t seem to fluster or shake him.

Yep. If we’re not actually in a mass hysteria, we’re on the cusp of one.

Like what I see happening in the Islamic world from first-hand observation - since the early to mid 1970s, there’s been a social mania spreading like wildfire, which has led to the current situation we’re seeing regarding takfiri groups and jihadist organizations. This particular social mania is being driven by a utopian vanguardist ideology; the idea is a vision of salvation, a new way of living, which if realized would radically change everyday life, ushering in a utopian world of perfection.

124 BongCrodny  Jun 1, 2014 3:17:53pm

re: #109 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

It’s more about decreasing wealth disparity than just increasing wealth. And a stronger and much simplified progressive taxation system, much increased inheritance taxes and capital gains tax.

That would be the basic start.

Following up, more or less; I’ll link to Krugman since he’s on the side of the angels and not the article pimping these guys:

Paul Krugman: Now That’s Rich

Yet before we dismiss the report as nothing new, let’s think about what it means that these 25 men (yes, they’re all men) made a combined $21 billion in 2013. In particular, let’s think about how their good fortune refutes several popular myths about income inequality in America.

Last year, those 25 hedge fund managers made more than twice as much as all the kindergarten teachers in America combined.

We’ve got some fucked-up priorities in this country.

125 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Jun 1, 2014 3:19:52pm

re: #124 BongCrodny

Following up, more or less; I’ll link to Krugman since he’s on the side of the angels and not the article pimping these guys:

Paul Krugman: Now That’s Rich

We’ve got some fucked-up priorities in this country.

And this is clearly not sustainable. Things can’t keep going on this way. That’s what I don’t get about the ideologues red-facedly arguing that those hedge managers ‘earned’ that money. This isn’t sustainable, and it’s not sustainable in ways that were observed by goddamn Adam Smith.

126 Lidane  Jun 1, 2014 3:27:21pm

Wheee!

Once more with feeling: Open carry in Texas is really fucking stupid when getting a CHL is easy. This isn’t Somalia, for fuck’s sake. No one needs to wear an AR-15 when they go get a cheeseburger.

At this point, I’m rooting for as many businesses as possible to ban guns from their premises and tell people to leave that shit at home. It’s clearly not going to get through to the gun fuckers any other way.

127 freetoken  Jun 1, 2014 3:31:29pm

re: #126 Lidane

Young males of H. sapiens often form gangs, like some other primates and mammals. They come in various forms in these days, but its a phenomenon that’s probably been with us for a very, very long time.

128 calochortus  Jun 1, 2014 3:35:27pm

re: #126 Lidane

Better the GOP convention than the coffee shop.

129 Romantic Heretic  Jun 1, 2014 3:40:00pm

re: #78 sagehen

It’s all about short-term thinking vs long-term thinking, and it’s government’s responsibility to think long. People who care only about their own family’s short-term best interest and never mind if 20 years from now half a generation is going to be adults with no skills… are just going to have to suck it up and deal with the cost of giving a damn about “those people’s” kids too.

And like any form of maintenance the cost and difficulty of dealing with failure will be far more than an early solution would be.

130 Romantic Heretic  Jun 1, 2014 3:41:42pm

re: #82 jaunte

[Embedded content]

@Tod Kincannon: You fucking asshole.

131 Pie-onist Overlord  Jun 1, 2014 3:44:05pm

Well, before I can bake the cheesecake I have to clean up the kitchen from the bread-baking & vegetable soup making. Then I emptied the dishwasher & put away all the dishes, then put dinner in the oven & Zedushka said he DOES NOT WANT leftover Cornish hen & wild rice he wants HOT DOGS, whatevs the grill is his to do what he wants.

Now my feet hurt too much for Teh Cheesecakes Baking & the norco has to kick in.

132 sattv4u2  Jun 1, 2014 3:45:01pm

re: #131 Pie-onist Overlord

So I ain’t getting a slice, huh!

133 Mike Lamb  Jun 1, 2014 3:45:49pm

re: #107 psddluva4evah

I’m amazed actually, not surprised, but amazed at how quickly they’ve turned this soldier into a “HOMELAND” like betrayor!! WTF?

Why? These are the same people that think “24” is a documentary.

134 calochortus  Jun 1, 2014 3:46:17pm

re: #131 Pie-onist Overlord

Sorry to hear that. Take a rest.

135 CuriousLurker  Jun 1, 2014 3:47:19pm

re: #131 Pie-onist Overlord

Is all this cooking in preparation for the upcoming holiday, or is it just your normal process?

136 Lidane  Jun 1, 2014 3:50:40pm

re: #128 calochortus

Better the GOP convention than the coffee shop.

Except that some dipshit is going to wear his penis extension when he goes to a coffee shop or a restaurant or when they’re out and about because they need people to see how manly they are.

I’m just glad all that crap is going to happen in Fort Worth. Hopefully that will mean that all the open carry idiots here in Austin will be in the DFW area instead.

137 Pie-onist Overlord  Jun 1, 2014 3:51:36pm

re: #135 CuriousLurker

Is all this cooking in preparation for the upcoming holiday, or is it just your normal process?

Holiday this week.

138 calochortus  Jun 1, 2014 3:52:13pm

re: #136 Lidane

Yeah, probably. I always thought manly men didn’t need to cart weaponry around with them, but what do I know?

139 PhillyPretzel  Jun 1, 2014 3:53:37pm

OT: One of the co-owners of the Philadelphia Inquirer has died in a plane crash. Here is my page on this story. littlegreenfootballs.com

140 Romantic Heretic  Jun 1, 2014 3:53:38pm

re: #105 ObserverArt

Don’t forget the first move that leads to the second results you mention. There will groups ganging up all pissed off and ready to go to the ‘better’ areas of town and even things out a bit.

And you would think that would be a concern. You trap any animal, and then once cornered they do whatever they can to get out.

And remember, we have a lot of them either right now, or ready to start practicing their second amendment rights. They too will have guns.

What a world we have the potential for. Only we can decide if that is going to be positive or negative. Seems to be some negatives building.

In one of my vampire stories he was showing his lover Paris and thinking about what it was like in the late 18th/early 19th Centuries.

Hausmann was hired to redesign Paris. Before that most of Paris was a teeming slum. Riots broke put and in the medieval streets it was hard to put them down. Hausmann’s straight and wide streets were perfect for cavalry charges and cannon shots so riots could be put down quickly.

The poor were simply removed from Paris and moved north of the city to fend for themselves. For some odd reason they voted Communist for the next Century or more.

My vampire notes that now those areas are now filled with immigrants, and that “the problems of despair still plague them.”

141 Ding-an-sich Wannabe  Jun 1, 2014 3:58:26pm

...

142 A Mom Anon  Jun 1, 2014 4:03:24pm

re: #126 Lidane

So is the GOP leadership going to let these nimrods into their convention hall armed? It might be slightly entertaining to watch that unfold.

Kinda like GA’s Carry A Gun Everywhere law isn’t going to allow those treasured guns into the state buildings where the legislature who passed that law (while assuring us it’s perfectly fine and safe to let this happen) happen to work. Interesting.

143 A Mom Anon  Jun 1, 2014 4:04:45pm

re: #137 Pie-onist Overlord

Well then take a break. You’ve more than earned it.

144 Rightwingconspirator  Jun 1, 2014 4:09:56pm

re: #78 sagehen

Home schooling. Vouchers. Charters.

What’s the common denominator here? It’s that some parents don’t want their kids mixing with “those people.” Parents of means don’t want to pay enough taxes for all the schools to be able to do a good education for all the kids.

So parental racism is the motivator to go for those options in general? That’s a powerful allegation, the kind that requires powerful proof.

145 CuriousLurker  Jun 1, 2014 4:11:05pm

re: #139 PhillyPretzel

Oh hey, I’ve been waiting to see you. I finally watched the final episode of The Story of the Jews last night. It seemed pretty well-balanced and Schama ended up introducing me to a new author I want to read (book already ordered, sadly there’s no Kindle version available).

Anyway, I just wanted to thank you for reminding me about it. ;)

146 reine.de.tout  Jun 1, 2014 6:16:29pm

I see this is basically a dead thread now, and everybody has moved on, but a couple of points:

1) Charter schools are not the same as PRIVATE schools in the La voucher program. The La. voucher program is a POS program; private schools opened up virtually overnight and vouchers are being given for schools with absolutely no requirement that any educational criteria be met. I think an attempt has been made to rectify that particular thing, but I’m not sure it’s particularly vigorous, and bottom line - many of these private schools, particularly the ones that opened up overnight, are indeed run by fundamentalist sects that do plan to teach creationism as science, which of course is ridiculous. I am firmly against these school, and indeed, the Louisiana voucher program, which as far as I can tell, will do virtually nothing to put kids in good schools.

2) Now let’s look at Charter schools. There are 5 types of charter schools in La., though I can’t really tell what the differences would be. But the charter schools are governed either by the local public School Board, OR the state Board of Elementary and Secondary Education (BESE). They are not out there operating on their own with no oversight from those same folks who are responsible for overseeing public schools.

In NOLA, not only did many of the students fail to return to New Orleans - many of the TEACHERS failed to return as well, having gained employment in whatever town they eventually landed after Katrina. So there is very real shortage of those teachers who used to teach in the New Orleans public school system.

Now, you can have reasonable objections to charter schools, I’m sure. But some of the things I’ve seen in this thread are just not at all accurate as to what is happening in New Orleans.

Here is the La. Department of Education’s page on Louisiana Charter Schools. They have NO such page on the voucher program or private schools. Louisiana Charter Schools are considered to be public schools, open to all.

louisianabelieves.com

147 wheat-dogghazi  Jun 1, 2014 7:57:17pm

I woke up to find this post of mine promoted to the front page, and now maybe the thread is dead and I missed the party. Damn you, round Earth! Curse you, time zones!

Most of you LGF denizens know that I am a teacher, and have been now for 30 years. I attended public schools in a very good (and very gerrymandered) school district on Long Island, but for most of my teaching career taught in a very small, but very good private high school in Kentucky. At one time, I supported the idea of vouchers, to allow low-income parents to send their kids to private schools, like the one I worked at. And at one time, I supported the idea of charter schools, because I saw some charter schools (KiPP, for example) doing positive things.

I’ve since changed my mind, because not all private schools are as enlightened or as good as my former employer, and not all charter schools are as reputable as the KiPP schools. Vouchers and charters have been co-opted by conservative, corporate and religious forces to both further their own causes and destroy what’s good about public schools.

We need public schools. We need public schools that can give every child, regardless of income level, ethnicity, or physical/emotional/mental ability, the kind of education they need to function as adults in our society. In short, to produce adults who will not be a burden to, or even a menace to society.

Have the public schools had 100% success in achieving that lofty goal? No. Some public schools have failed miserably. What I see school “reformers” doing is using those public schools that failed miserably AS THE BASE LINE for all public schools and as the reason for scrapping public education altogether. They conveniently ignore all the truly successful public schools — and teachers — that exist all over the USA, in cities and rural areas alike, painting all public schools with a broad brush of “failure.”

Throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

Thomas Jefferson, as well as other Founding Fathers, understood that a democracy such as ours requires — requires! — a well-educated public. It is this public that forms the government of the USA, and elects its representatives to that government. Public education was so important to the Founding Fathers that the Northwest Ordinance required there be land set aside for a public school. The belief in the necessity of a well educated public was the impetus behind the creation of the land grant colleges many years later. Some of those land grant institutions are now regarded as some of the best universities in the world.

Frankly, I have no patience for anyone who suggests that public education has failed this nation, because it’s an unmitigated lie. Public education made this nation. It has enabled generations of poor families, some of whom with no education or English, to pull themselves out of poverty by sending their children to college, to technical schools, to a better future. To chase the American dream.

Further, I have no patience for anyone who suggests that poor kids, black kids, brown kids, disabled kids, whatever, can’t be educated, can’t excel in school, can’t do anything a member of the mostly white 1% can do. That is also an unmitigated lie.

They lie because they want to stay on top. They don’t want poor, black, brown or disabled kids sharing the upper reaches of society.

And they especially don’t want one of those kids turning out to be president someday.

148 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Jun 1, 2014 8:24:49pm

re: #146 reine.de.tout

But they’re not open to all, right? The bit above about some of the charter schools not participating in the lottery is accurate?

149 wheat-dogghazi  Jun 1, 2014 8:35:30pm

re: #148 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

Even if the kids win the lottery, charter schools can reject students for a number of reasons. So, the kids get passed to another charter school, and on and on it goes. Public schools cannot reject students living within their service area, by law. Therein lies one big difference between the charter system and the traditional system.

150 reine.de.tout  Jun 1, 2014 8:55:26pm

re: #148 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

But they’re not open to all, right? The bit above about some of the charter schools not participating in the lottery is accurate?

The charter schools are open to all, but people choose which school they want their children to attend. Most often, this is the one geographically closest.

There is only a lottery if the number of applicants for a particular school exceeds the available space in that school. I found this:

151 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Jun 1, 2014 9:01:05pm

re: #150 reine.de.tout

The charter schools are open to all, but people choose which school they want their children to attend. Most often, this is the one geographically closest.

There is only a lottery if the number of applicants for a particular school exceeds the available space in that school. I found this:

[Embedded content]

The article says there are two parallel systems.

White students disproportionately attend the best charter schools, while the worst are almost exclusively populated by African American students. Activists in New Orleans joined with others in Detroit and Newark last month to file a federal civil rights complaint, alleging that the city’s best-performing schools have admissions policies that exclude African American children. Those schools are overseen by the separate Orleans Parish School Board, and they don’t participate in OneApp, the city’s centralized school enrollment lottery.

152 reine.de.tout  Jun 1, 2014 9:10:23pm

re: #151 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

The article says there are two parallel systems.

There are different types of charter schools, I mentioned that in my earlier comment, though I don’t know what the differences are.

Some types of charter schools are allowed to have more restrictive admissions policies than others. Bottom line though - in New Orleans, some sort of charter school is open to every one.

Do I think it’s a good thing to have these charter schools operating as the New Orleans Public School System? Hell, I don’t know, really I don’t.

I don’t know how having some charter schools with more restrictive admissions policies is any different than the “magnet schools” in the public school system - these are the better schools, lots of applicants, not all get in.

I’m not a big fan of the “magnet school” concept for public school systems. If you have a good public school system, there is no need whatsoever for “magnet” schools. There were no such schools when I was going to school in the 60’s and early 70’s. We were just all thrown together, and did just fine.

Obdi - you can go through and nit-pick everything, that’s fine, but I’m not sure I will have the time, or knowledge, to respond to everything. I just know that many of the comments I saw in this thread were goofy as hell and had no relation to reality and so I thought I would provide some information.

153 reine.de.tout  Jun 1, 2014 9:27:24pm

By law, Recovery School District charters are the only schools in the Orleans system that must accept all students. Charters under the Orleans Parish School Board may selectively admit, as can charters authorized directly by the state Board of Elementary and Secondary Education. These selective admission practices are permitted because they are considered mission-driven. For example, a charter intending to serve a military population can enroll children from military families before opening the pool to others, and a charter with a college preparatory mission can limit admissions to high achievers.

154 reine.de.tout  Jun 1, 2014 9:33:27pm

“OneApp” is the process by which parents apply for a school.

There are different types of charter schools depending on the type of charter. Some are RSD charters, by law, open to all students.

Other schools are mission driven - language immersion schools, schools serving a military population, whatever. These are allowed to have more restrictive requirements.

Parents protested that they had to fill out several applications for the different school types, so the state came up with “OneApp”. Parents fill out one application and list up to 8 different school choices for their children.

155 wheat-dogghazi  Jun 1, 2014 10:05:10pm

re: #154 reine.de.tout

The college admissions process, applied to enrolling your kid in primary school. Progress!

156 reine.de.tout  Jun 1, 2014 10:08:23pm

re: #155 wheat-dogghazi

The college admissions process, applied to enrolling your kid in primary school. Progress!

Didn’t claim it was progress.

Just provided info.

157 wheat-dogghazi  Jun 1, 2014 10:44:24pm

re: #156 reine.de.tout

Sorry. I forgot the sarc tag.

158 wheat-dogghazi  Jun 1, 2014 11:15:50pm

I wanted to add something about Teach for America, which is staffing a lot of charter schools all around the States. It started as a noble, and idealistic cause: to bring Ivy League educated college grads into inner city and rural schools to somehow “infect” kids with the Ivy League virus, and make them all brainiacs. As an added benefit, it allows recent grads to get some real world work experience to add to their resumes, for when they eventually bail out of TfA and get “real jobs.”

In practice, TfA has been not as beneficial to the schools and the children as its originator, Princeton grad Amy Kopp, had intended. In the beginning, TfA recruits were not required to stay more than two years, so there was high turnover, as these wide-eyed college grads ran smack into the realities of teaching disadvantaged students. Retention rates among TfA recruits have improved, but few of them choose to stick with teaching as a career. Rather, their time as teachers is just a way to pad their resumes as they move on to more lucrative professions.

One benefit to the schools is economic. TfA recruits are cheaper than employing experienced classroom teachers. These recruits look like a great benefit to the public — smart, young people will inspire your kids — but their lack of experience and the high turnover rate means each new crop of recruits has to learn on the job. By the time they know kind of what they should do, they leave. So, students are cheated out of association with career classroom teachers.

According to Diane Ravitch, TfA has become an employment agency for the charter schools. It’s a match made in heaven, facilitated by the corporate and Ivy League networking among charter founders and operators and TfA’s leadership. And, to state the obvious, TfA recruits are unlikely to ever lobby for unionization or collective bargaining rights, because they are not committing themselves to teaching as a profession. This is a boon to the corporate boosters of charter schools and privatization of education. Using Teach for America effectively does an end run around teacher unions and traditional teacher training requirements.

159 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Jun 2, 2014 2:56:14am

re: #152 reine.de.tout

Obdi - you can go through and nit-pick everything, that’s fine, but I’m not sure I will have the time, or knowledge, to respond to everything. I just know that many of the comments I saw in this thread were goofy as hell and had no relation to reality and so I thought I would provide some information.

I wasn’t nit-picking, I was asking for information, which I thank you for providing.

160 1Peter G1  Jun 2, 2014 10:59:28am

Is there any subject in the US more driven by intentional misinformation than this one? I can’t think of one.

161 wheat-dogghazi  Jun 2, 2014 7:04:37pm

re: #160 1Peter G1

To what do you refer?


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