A Few Facts About the Bush White House and Iraq Troop Withdrawal

History • Views: 38,122

December 4, 2008

Fact Sheet: The Strategic Framework Agreement and the Security Agreement with Iraq

To Ensure That The Security Agreement Is Consistent With The Capacity Of Iraq’s Security Forces, The Dates Included In This Agreement Were Discussed With The Iraqis, General Petraeus, And General Odierno - They Allow For The Continued Transition Of Security Responsibilities To The Iraqis

As we further transition security responsibilities to the Iraqi Security Forces, military commanders will continue to move U.S. combat forces out of major populated areas so that they are all out by June 30, 2009.

  • The Security Agreement also sets a date of December 31, 2011, for all U.S. forces to withdraw from Iraq. This date reflects the increasing capacity of the Iraqi Security Forces as demonstrated in operations this year throughout Iraq, as well as an improved regional atmosphere towards Iraq, an expanding Iraqi economy, and an increasingly confident Iraqi government.
  • These dates therefore are based on an assessment of positive conditions on the ground and a realistic projection of when U.S. forces can reduce their presence and return home without a sacrificing the security gains made since the surge.
Graphic: The Strategic Framework Agreement and the Security Agreement with Iraq

December 8, 2008

President’s Radio Address

MP3 Audio

[…]

This withdrawal will take place in two stages: The first stage will occur next year, when Iraqi forces assume the lead for security operations in all major population centers, while U.S. combat forces move out of Iraqi cities and move into an overwatch role. After this transition has occurred, the drawdown of American forces will continue to the second stage, with all U.S. forces returning home from Iraq by the end of 2011.

[…]

Graphic: President’s Radio Address

Related:

Bush’s finest moment on Iraq: SOFA, not the surge
by Marc Lynch

Peter Beinart today bravely repeats the emerging would-be conventional wisdom. Rather than simply denounce everything Republican, he argues, Democrats should admit that the “surge” worked and — uniquely echoing a thousand recent op-eds — was President Bush’s finest moment. I have a hard time imagining anything as tedious as rehashing those tired debates from the campaign about the “surge” — perhaps we could have another round of arguments as to whether the surge brigades arriving in the spring of 2007 caused the Sunni turn against al-Qaeda in the fall of 2006? But in the interests of post-partisanship, I am willing to offer an alternative as Bush’s finest hour in Iraq: the Status of Forces Agreement.

[…]

And thus I offer Bush’s willingness to sign the SOFA mandating U.S. withdrawal from Iraq, and not the surge, as his finest moment in Iraq.

Read the whole thing at Foreign Policy.

Jump to bottom

264 comments

1 Gus  Jun 14, 2014 11:50:27pm
2 missliberties  Jun 15, 2014 10:50:57am

Why does the media pundint class have collective amnesia on FACTS.

Thanks Gus for always keeping after it.

3 Charles Johnson  Jun 15, 2014 11:25:33am
4 Justanotherhuman  Jun 15, 2014 11:28:29am

Well done, Gus! Highlight of my day. : )

5 sattv4u2  Jun 15, 2014 11:28:34am

re: #1 Gus

[Embedded content]

At my house, it actually feels the other way around

Me, on the outside looking in

6 Charles Johnson  Jun 15, 2014 11:30:11am

I just got “well, actually’ed”.

7 Charles Johnson  Jun 15, 2014 11:30:27am
8 jaunte  Jun 15, 2014 11:31:20am
NSA owns virtually the entire Iraqi communications network. And yet…

And yet what? Be a journalist and finish the sentence, Glenn.

9 Charles Johnson  Jun 15, 2014 11:31:38am

Greenwald fans are amazingly literal-minded — except when it comes to questioning Greenwald’s exaggerations. Then they accept everything he says as gospel truth.

10 thedopefishlives  Jun 15, 2014 11:32:08am

re: #9 Charles Johnson

Greenwald fans are amazingly literal-minded — except when it comes to questioning Greenwald’s exaggerations. Then they accept everything he says as gospel truth.

ALL GLORY TO THE HYPNOWALD.

11 Justanotherhuman  Jun 15, 2014 11:39:47am

Croatia’s players refuse to talk to World Cup reporters after photos were published of them bathing nude in the team’s swimming pool, coach Niko Kovac says - @Reuters
End of alert

I don’t know why; it’s mostly butt shots. Muscular butt shots.

24sata.hr

12 Kid A  Jun 15, 2014 11:45:56am
13 Justanotherhuman  Jun 15, 2014 11:47:24am

re: #12 Kid A

[Embedded content]

She’ll have to get over that narcissism first.

14 Justanotherhuman  Jun 15, 2014 11:48:54am

Oh, shit.

String of explosions rocks Iraqi capital, killing at least 15 - @AP
End of alert

15 Gus  Jun 15, 2014 11:50:28am

re: #14 Justanotherhuman

Oh, shit.

String of explosions rocks Iraqi capital, killing at least 15 - @AP
End of alert

SNAFU

16 nines09  Jun 15, 2014 11:52:13am

“Facts. Who needs them?”
Signed; The Entire GOP, Tea Party and Varied Illustrious News Services and Right Wing Blogs, Swamps and Open Sewers.

17 b_sharp  Jun 15, 2014 11:53:20am

And the Guster is back.

18 sattv4u2  Jun 15, 2014 11:53:50am

re: #17 b_sharp

And the Guster is back.

he left??

19 sattv4u2  Jun 15, 2014 11:55:57am

re: #15 Gus

SNAFU

Work accident, no doubt

20 Justanotherhuman  Jun 15, 2014 11:56:09am

re: #15 Gus

SNAFU

Here’s a longer story on what’s happening in Baghdad over recent months.

String of explosions rocks Iraqi capital

hosted.ap.org

“While the city of seven million is not in any immediate danger of falling into the hands of the militants, Sunday’s bombings could raise tensions. Food prices in the city have risen, twofold in some cases, because of disruption to transport on the main road heading north from the capital.

“The government bolstered defenses around Baghdad Sunday, a day after hundreds of Shiite men paraded through the streets with arms in response to a call by Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani for Iraqis to defend their country. ISIL has vowed to attack Baghdad but its advance to the south seems to have stalled in recent days. Thousands of Shiites have also volunteered to join the fight against the ISIL, also in response to al-Sistani’s call.

“Armed police, including SWAT teams, were seen over the weekend manning checkpoints in Baghdad, searching vehicles and checking drivers’ documents. Security was particularly tightened on the northern and western approaches of the city, the likely targets of any advance by ISIL fighters on the capital. The city looked gloomy on Sunday, with thin traffic and few shoppers in commercial areas.” More

21 Unabogie  Jun 15, 2014 11:56:56am

Honestly, we live in a country where a certain percentage of people blame Obama for Hurricane Katrina. Under that kind of confusion, how can they ever hope to remember that Bush signed the SOFA that brought all troops out?

22 nines09  Jun 15, 2014 11:58:05am

re: #21 Unabogie

Honestly, we live in a country where a certain percentage of people blame Obama for Hurricane Katrina. Under that kind of confusion, how can they ever hope to remember that Bush signed the SOFA that brought all troops out?

Some can’t even remember what pill to take next.

23 Justanotherhuman  Jun 15, 2014 11:59:07am

re: #22 nines09

Some can’t even remember what pill to take next.

Or the difference between the blue one and the red one.

24 nines09  Jun 15, 2014 11:59:52am

re: #23 Justanotherhuman

Or the difference between the blue one and the red one.

Or what to think today before they turn on the 24/7 Wind Machine.

25 b.d.  Jun 15, 2014 12:02:48pm

Remember just a few weeks ago when Glenn wouldn’t even acknowledge that the NSA was messing with Iraq’s communications?

Good times…

26 Unabogie  Jun 15, 2014 12:05:57pm

re: #24 nines09

Or what to think today before they turn on the 24/7 Wind Machine.

Is that they’re calling Fox News these days?

27 nines09  Jun 15, 2014 12:08:12pm

re: #26 Unabogie

Is that they’re calling Fox News these days?

It’s all the news fit to mangle with varied non professional talking heads first saying they are not qualified to say what they are about to say. Then they repeat it, over and over and…

28 Skip Intro  Jun 15, 2014 12:08:50pm

Reince Priebus After Eric Cantor Loss: I Don’t Think GOP Is Divided

and on the same show,

“The Democrats don’t agree on everything either.”

Neener, neener, neener. The Dems do it too, the Dems do it too, the Dems do it too.

At least he didn’t threaten to hold his breath and turn blue until they stopped asking him those unfair questions.

huffingtonpost.com

29 Charles Johnson  Jun 15, 2014 12:11:48pm
30 thedopefishlives  Jun 15, 2014 12:13:03pm

re: #29 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Why would that be odd? There’s a lot of stuff in the Old Testament the wingnuts would simply prefer to pretend doesn’t exist.

31 b.d.  Jun 15, 2014 12:13:51pm

re: #29 Charles Johnson

-odd that Bible is open to the NT

The Bible is opened to the part where they quit reading….

32 Unabogie  Jun 15, 2014 12:14:28pm

re: #27 nines09

It’s all the news fit to mangle with varied non professional talking heads first saying they are not qualified to say what they are about to say. Then they repeat it, over and over and…

I saw a recent story that border agents were taking it upon themselves to help care for the children that are being abandoned by helping feed and change them. An INS person was using that to show how dedicated they were and how decent Americans are in the face of an intractable problem.

Fox News’ headline was “Border Agents Forced to Change Diapers, Heat Baby Formula” as if Obama was sissifying the manly men of our nation’s most dangerous border. They even had pictures of agents on horseback to show the extent of the immasculation.

Classic Fox News.

Linky.

33 Gus  Jun 15, 2014 12:16:49pm

Greenwald putting out feelers for creating Iraq/ISIS/NSA trutherism.

34 Justanotherhuman  Jun 15, 2014 12:18:26pm

Waiting for GG to get his shorts in a wad in 1, 2, 3…

Israel has closed the Hebron region and partially sealed Gaza Strip crossing points as it searches for 3 Israeli teenagers, in a move condemned by a Palestinian rights group as ‘collective punishment’ - @AJELive
Read more on aljazeera.com

35 Justanotherhuman  Jun 15, 2014 12:20:37pm

It just occurred to me that the Middle East has been a pressure cooker for as long as I can remember—and I’m 73.

No end in sight, sadly.

36 nines09  Jun 15, 2014 12:21:26pm

re: #32 Unabogie

What can you say about that open sewer called Fox News that hasn’t already been said? It’s social scabies with a side of body lice administered every day to the itchy faithful.

37 nines09  Jun 15, 2014 12:23:01pm

re: #35 Justanotherhuman

It just occurred to me that the Middle East has been a pressure cooker for as long as I can remember—and I’m 73.

No end in sight, sadly.

Some wars never end. Too much history.

38 RealityBasedSteve  Jun 15, 2014 12:23:23pm

re: #36 nines09

What can you say about that open sewer called Fox News that hasn’t already been said? It’s social scabies with a side of body lice administered every day to the itchy faithful.

Thanks…. now I feel all ichy…

RBS

39 nines09  Jun 15, 2014 12:25:13pm

re: #38 RealityBasedSteve

Sorry. But that’s what I feel like when I overhear a Fox News Zombie. They’re infected.

40 Pie-onist Overlord  Jun 15, 2014 12:25:22pm

re: #30 thedopefishlives

Why would that be odd? There’s a lot of stuff in the Old Testament the wingnuts would simply prefer to pretend doesn’t exist.

LEVITICUS 19:13 “Thou shalt not defraud thy neighbor, neither rob him. The wages of him that is hired shall not remain with thee all night until the morning.”

LEVITICUS 19:33 “And if a stranger sojourn with thee in your land, ye shall not vex him.”

LEVITICUS 19:34 “But the stranger who dwelleth with you shall be unto you as one born among you, and thou shalt love him as thyself, for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt: I am the Lord your God.

41 Charles Johnson  Jun 15, 2014 12:27:40pm

Here we go — let’s abolish our intelligence services! What good are they anyway?

42 Pie-onist Overlord  Jun 15, 2014 12:28:06pm

DEUTERONOMY 24:14 Thou shalt not oppress the hired worker that is poor and needy, whether he be of thy brethren, or of the strangers that are in thy land within thy gates:

43 Killgore Trout  Jun 15, 2014 12:29:27pm

re: #34 Justanotherhuman

Waiting for GG to get his shorts in a wad in 1, 2, 3…

Israel has closed the Hebron region and partially sealed Gaza Strip crossing points as it searches for 3 Israeli teenagers, in a move condemned by a Palestinian rights group as ‘collective punishment’ - @AJELive
Read more on aljazeera.com

That’s a huge payday for Hamas (or whoever has them). Using the Shalit deal as a barometer that’s 3,000 terrorists released from Israeli jails.

44 Kid A  Jun 15, 2014 12:30:38pm

And one of the leading trumpets for the war in Iraq. (Meme by Kid A)

45 Targetpractice  Jun 15, 2014 12:31:37pm

re: #37 nines09

Some wars never end. Too much history.

War…war never changes.

46 Killgore Trout  Jun 15, 2014 12:31:55pm

Kerry’s pointing towards Hamas as well

Kerry points to Hamas role in Israelis’ kidnapping
Unity Government!

47 Charles Johnson  Jun 15, 2014 12:33:09pm

Yup. Greenwald is definitely watching my Twitter feed.

48 Justanotherhuman  Jun 15, 2014 12:33:15pm

re: #43 Killgore Trout

That’s a huge payday for Hamas (or whoever has them). Using the Shalit deal as a barometer that’s 3,000 terrorists released from Israeli jails.

Once again, you misread my comment. GG doesn’t care about those kids. Just about how the search is inconveniencing some people.

49 Killgore Trout  Jun 15, 2014 12:33:35pm

Anyone remember those 300 Nigerian schoolgirls?
/Kony 2012!

50 nines09  Jun 15, 2014 12:33:42pm

re: #45 Targetpractice

War…war never changes.

Just the efficiency and method of the killing.

51 Charles Johnson  Jun 15, 2014 12:34:06pm

It’s about time for Greenwald to post another passive aggressive attack on me.

52 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Jun 15, 2014 12:34:08pm

re: #49 Killgore Trout

Anyone remember those 300 Nigerian schoolgirls?
/Kony 2012!

Yep. I remember them. Why are you bringing them up?

53 BongCrodny  Jun 15, 2014 12:35:07pm

re: #12 Kid A

[Embedded content]

Oh, good lord.

I won’t embarrass further the guy who wrote it, but one of the tweets on that thread read:

“Things that sadden me… never be able to get that close…and I have to wait 6 more years for Meghan to save her dad’s party!”

Meghan is 29.

Breaking out the old Texas Instruments calculator (wouldn’t want to get this wrong!), we find that 29 + 6 = 35.

What are you able to do at 35 that you can’t do before?

Oh, good lord!

54 Killgore Trout  Jun 15, 2014 12:35:08pm

re: #48 Justanotherhuman

Once again, you misread my comment. GG doesn’t care about those kids. Just about how the search is inconveniencing some people.

Ah, I didn’t misread the comment, I just don’t care what Greenwald thinks. He doesn’t have any effect on my opinions about the kidnapping.

56 Killgore Trout  Jun 15, 2014 12:36:09pm
57 Justanotherhuman  Jun 15, 2014 12:38:17pm

re: #51 Charles Johnson

It’s about time for Greenwald to post another passive aggressive attack on me.

He’ll be in your neck of the woods this coming week. : )

58 Killgore Trout  Jun 15, 2014 12:38:44pm

Fugitive ex-VP Tareq al-Hashimi dubs Iraq’s crisis as ‘Arab Spring’

Iraq’s former Vice President Tareq al-Hashimi described what is happening in the country as an “Arab Spring uprising” aimed at ending Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki’s “sectarian” regime, in an interview with Al Arabiya News Channel’s sister channel al-Hadath on Sunday.

“I am being frank when I say that I know what’s happening in my country; therefore I am careful when I say that this is a revolution who all Iraqi people contributed in,” said Hashimi, who fled Iraq in 2012 after he was given a death sentence for two murder cases.

59 RealityBasedSteve  Jun 15, 2014 12:39:12pm

re: #57 Justanotherhuman

He’ll be in your neck of the woods this coming week. : )

No he won’t… Charles lives in Realityville. GG can’t find that on a map.

RBS

60 sattv4u2  Jun 15, 2014 12:39:44pm

re: #54 Killgore Trout

Ah, I didn’t misread the comment, I just don’t care what Greenwald thinks. He doesn’t have any effect on my opinions about the kidnapping ANYTHING.

ftfy

61 Killgore Trout  Jun 15, 2014 12:40:31pm

re: #60 sattv4u2

ftfy

Fucks given < 0

62 sattv4u2  Jun 15, 2014 12:41:16pm

re: #61 Killgore Trout

Fucks given < 0

can they be bought!?!?

63 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Jun 15, 2014 12:41:30pm

re: #58 Killgore Trout

Fugitive ex-VP Tareq al-Hashimi dubs Iraq’s crisis as ‘Arab Spring’

The sectarian divide in Iraq that’s part of why this is causing so much chaos is something you denied the existence of a couple of weeks ago. Have you put any thought into how you managed to so horrendously misread Iraq? I’m figuring it’s that you haven’t actually looked into the situation in Iraq in years, being content to declare victory when McCain did, but I’d be interested if there was another reason why you predicted stability for Iraq a mere three weeks before insurgents captured major cities and the government showed its complete lack of stability.

64 b.d.  Jun 15, 2014 12:42:04pm

re: #51 Charles Johnson

It’s about time for Greenwald to post another passive aggressive attack on me.

One of his flunkies might pick up the cause for him.

On an unrelated note, I wonder what John Cole is up to today?

65 Charles Johnson  Jun 15, 2014 12:42:07pm
66 Justanotherhuman  Jun 15, 2014 12:42:10pm

Update: Insurgents overrun northwestern Iraqi town of Tal Afar, witnesses say - @Reuters
End of alert

67 GeneJockey  Jun 15, 2014 12:43:12pm

re: #62 sattv4u2

can they be bought!?!?

Real men don’t have to pay for it.
//

68 Lidane  Jun 15, 2014 12:43:55pm

re: #28 Skip Intro

Reince Priebus After Eric Cantor Loss: I Don’t Think GOP Is Divided

69 Justanotherhuman  Jun 15, 2014 12:44:11pm

re: #65 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

GG’s too busy in the States pushing his bullshit book and making coin.

The obligatory book tour—oh, the horror!

I guess the others can’t bother to do anything without his say so? I mean, how long does it take to get acclimated to a new job?

70 b.d.  Jun 15, 2014 12:44:33pm

The French soccer team = the Oakland Raiders.

What a bunch of thugs.

71 sattv4u2  Jun 15, 2014 12:44:50pm

re: #67 GeneJockey

Real men don’t have to pay for it.

The oldest profession isn’t the oldest profession for no reason!

72 b.d.  Jun 15, 2014 12:47:24pm

re: #69 Justanotherhuman

GG’s too busy in the States pushing his bullshit book and making coin.

The obligatory book tour—oh, the horror!

I guess the others can’t bother to do anything without his say so? I mean, how long does it take to get acclimated to a new job?

He better do a better job of slinging those books:

Amazon Best Sellers Rank: #864 Paid in Kindle Store

Maybe Glenn can get Pierre to issue some grants to Oprah to have her put Glenn on her book list?

73 sattv4u2  Jun 15, 2014 12:48:09pm

re: #70 b.d.

The French soccer team = the Oakland Raiders.

What a bunch of thugs.

The French National soccer team has been relevant these past tournaments

The Oakland Raiders, not so much

74 Charles Johnson  Jun 15, 2014 12:48:18pm

These stalkers are such screwed up people. This guy has been using my name for years.

twitter.com

75 Lidane  Jun 15, 2014 12:48:33pm

Nope. No hyperbole here at all:

76 Khal Wimpo  Jun 15, 2014 12:48:47pm

In other news - look for Glenn Greenwald’s head to a-splode, as even Silicon Valley types start talking OUT LOUD about how what the NSA collects about us pales in comparison to the “stalker economy” of Silicon Valley. Check out Al fricken Gore

Even more surprising: Gore’s readiness to talk about the dangers posed by Surveillance Valley’s for-profit surveillance business model.

After explaining that excessive government spying is detrimental to our democracy, he pivoted — unprovoked — to the private sector:

Al Gore: Okay, so governments — that’s one threat. But, business are collecting way more information than they should. We now have a stalker economy where customers become products. And I’m not the first one to say that.

Heresy! Everyone knows that the US gubmint is the real villain, always and forever, and that the friendly media corporations that sign checks to the Greenwald are pure as the driven snow…

77 Charles Johnson  Jun 15, 2014 12:49:09pm

How freaking bizarre is it to name yourself after someone you despise? Absolutely deranged.

78 GeneJockey  Jun 15, 2014 12:49:34pm

re: #75 Lidane

Nope. No hyperbole here at all:

[Embedded content]

Hey, at least he didn’t compare it to the Holocaust.

Yet.

79 GeneJockey  Jun 15, 2014 12:51:08pm

re: #77 Charles Johnson

How freaking bizarre is it to name yourself after someone you despise? Absolutely deranged.

You’re obviously very important to him. You should be flattered. And change all your door locks, and think about bars on the windows.
//

80 Charles Johnson  Jun 15, 2014 12:51:40pm
81 Lidane  Jun 15, 2014 12:52:08pm

Cue the cries of Y U NO DO THIS FOR BENGHAZI?! :

82 GeneJockey  Jun 15, 2014 12:52:30pm

re: #76 Khal Wimpo

In other news - look for Glenn Greenwald’s head to a-splode, as even Silicon Valley types start talking OUT LOUD about how what the NSA collects about us pales in comparison to the “stalker economy” of Silicon Valley. Check out Al fricken Gore

Heresy! Everyone knows that the US gubmint is the real villain, always and forever, and that the friendly media corporations that sign checks to the Greenwald are pure as the driven snow…

Fucking Al Gore - invents the internet, then bitches about companies making a little more money with our private information.

////////////////

83 bratwurst  Jun 15, 2014 12:52:40pm

re: #52 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

Yep. I remember them. Why are you bringing them up?

I guess he is trying to assert his moral superiority somehow…sort of like he did here. Honestly, who the fuck knows? I do think that this is the best description of what he has been doing here the last 2.5 years though:

84 Lidane  Jun 15, 2014 12:52:46pm

re: #80 Charles Johnson

Libertarian socialism? WTF is that aside from something that sounds incoherent?

85 Charles Johnson  Jun 15, 2014 12:54:05pm

re: #84 Lidane

Libertarian socialism? WTF is that aside from something that sounds incoherent?

I think it’s related to conservative communism.

86 GeneJockey  Jun 15, 2014 12:54:59pm

re: #84 Lidane

Libertarian socialism? WTF is that aside from something that sounds incoherent?

It’s like Anarchist Fascism, or Capitalist Communism.

Or Jumbo Shrimp.

87 Kid A  Jun 15, 2014 12:55:21pm

And how could I forget the worst of them all, Mr. Irrelevant Tom Friedman? I didn’t.

88 Pie-onist Overlord  Jun 15, 2014 12:56:46pm

My granddaughter graduated middle school today. She’s starting high school.

Damn when did I get so freaking OLD!!!!

89 b.d.  Jun 15, 2014 12:59:41pm

re: #84 Lidane

Libertarian socialism? WTF is that aside from something that sounds incoherent?

Libertarian socialism is when we all band together to do totally selfish things for the greater good.

//

90 Dr Lizardo  Jun 15, 2014 1:00:03pm

re: #84 Lidane

Libertarian socialism? WTF is that aside from something that sounds incoherent?

It’s a real thing.

Think Daniel DeLeon or Rosa Luxemburg.

91 Lidane  Jun 15, 2014 1:01:03pm

Wikipedia sez:

Libertarian socialism is a western philosophy with diverse interpretations, though some general commonalities can be found in its many incarnations. Its proponents generally advocate a worker-oriented system of production and organization in the workplace that in some aspects radically departs from neoclassical economics in favor of democratic cooperatives or common ownership of the means of production (socialism). They propose that this economic system be executed in a manner that attempts to maximize the liberty of individuals and minimize concentration of power or authority (libertarianism).

So they want a co-op system without any real cooperation? Alrighty then.

92 Gus  Jun 15, 2014 1:02:31pm

re: #80 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

93 Backwoods_Sleuth  Jun 15, 2014 1:02:47pm

re: #88 Pie-onist Overlord

My granddaughter graduated middle school today. She’s starting high school.

Damn when did I get so freaking OLD!!!!

One of my granddaughters just turned 16.
Got her driver’s license.
Got her first paid summer job and drove across the Brent Spence Bridge from Kentucky to get to work at KMart in Ohio.
YIKES!

94 Gus  Jun 15, 2014 1:03:08pm

re: #91 Lidane

Wikipedia sez:

So they want a co-op system without any real cooperation? Alrighty then.

It’s like a corporal-captain. //

95 Justanotherhuman  Jun 15, 2014 1:03:12pm

re: #80 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Hmm. He’s probably thinking how he can get around that collective means of production stuff so rich libertarians can keep funding his bullshit.

They can sugar-coat libertarianism all they want to, but it will never be socialism. Next, GG will be calling himself a Luxemburgist.

96 CuriousLurker  Jun 15, 2014 1:04:06pm

Just stopping in long enough to wish all the dads a Happy Father’s Day!

Oh, and excellent post, Gus. ;-)

97 Dr Lizardo  Jun 15, 2014 1:04:26pm

re: #91 Lidane

Wikipedia sez:

So they want a co-op system without any real cooperation? Alrighty then.

I’m most familiar with the form advocated by the Socialist Labor Party, a DeLeonist party that’s now defunct.

en.wikipedia.org

98 Gus  Jun 15, 2014 1:04:41pm

re: #96 CuriousLurker

Just stopping in long enough to wish all the dads a Happy Father’s Day!

Oh, and excellent post, Gus. ;-)

Thanks. Happy father’s day!

99 palomino  Jun 15, 2014 1:08:54pm

re: #28 Skip Intro

Reince Priebus After Eric Cantor Loss: I Don’t Think GOP Is Divided

and on the same show,

“The Democrats don’t agree on everything either.”

Neener, neener, neener. The Dems do it too, the Dems do it too, the Dems do it too.

At least he didn’t threaten to hold his breath and turn blue until they stopped asking him those unfair questions.

huffingtonpost.com

Dems do what? Primary their leaders in the House and Senate? Since when?

100 Gus  Jun 15, 2014 1:09:30pm
101 Lidane  Jun 15, 2014 1:11:11pm

re: #97 Dr Lizardo

I’m most familiar with the form advocated by the Socialist Labor Party, a DeLeonist party that’s now defunct.

en.wikipedia.org

Wow. I’d never even heard of any of that. The first wiki entry had me boggling at all the different strains that are considered libertarian socialism. The one about DeLeonism has me shaking my head. It’s all too far out there for me.

102 palomino  Jun 15, 2014 1:12:20pm

re: #87 Kid A

And how could I forget the worst of them all, Mr. Irrelevant Tom Friedman? I didn’t.
[Embedded image]

I think I’d rank Kristol above Friedman when it comes to writer of wrongs. At least Friedman had the ability for self-criticism and didn’t cheerlead the Iraq War from start to finish. Kristol, OTOH, is such a loyal party operative and true believer in eternal American hegemony, he would never question the war regardless of facts on the ground.

103 Dr Lizardo  Jun 15, 2014 1:14:31pm

re: #101 Lidane

Wow. I’d never even heard of any of that. The first wiki entry had me boggling at all the different strains that are considered libertarian socialism. The one about DeLeonism has me shaking my head. It’s all too far out there for me.

It’s a very different variant of Marxism, outside either the Leninist or democratic socialism traditions. I think the SLP is still around, but it’s very tiny. The Portland, OR section was the one I knew, and it was mostly much older people. That would’ve been 20 years ago.

104 Gus  Jun 15, 2014 1:15:40pm

Coming up next.

Authoritarian - Anarchy

105 Justanotherhuman  Jun 15, 2014 1:16:51pm

Someone wrote that GG hadn’t formed a political stance some years ago when he was still messing around with Cato, et al.

Ever the opportunist, he’s still fishing around for some formula that will adhere the most closely to his own weird thinking.

A little of this, a little of that, and never mind that it might be more a clash of ideas than a coherent doctrine. Whoever pays, wins.

I have no doubt he’ll never leave the libertarian fold, though, as it’s on the political cusp w/leftwing thought which allows him a little back and forth, and he can continue to be The Great Pretender while stuffing his own coffers.

106 Gus  Jun 15, 2014 1:18:58pm

So now all of the libertarian Greenwald stans will see him saying being called a libertarian is a smear.

107 Justanotherhuman  Jun 15, 2014 1:20:22pm
108 Justanotherhuman  Jun 15, 2014 1:25:17pm

re: #103 Dr Lizardo

It’s a very different variant of Marxism, outside either the Leninist or democratic socialism traditions. I think the SLP is still around, but it’s very tiny. The Portland, OR section was the one I knew, and it was mostly much older people. That would’ve been 20 years ago.

They all want a little glory.

109 sattv4u2  Jun 15, 2014 1:27:29pm

re: #103 Dr Lizardo

It’s a very different variant of Marxism, outside either the Leninist or democratic socialism traditions. I think the SLP is still around, but it’s very tiny. The Portland, OR section was the one I knew, and it was mostly much older people. That would’ve been 20 years ago.

Their next meeting will be held in a phone booth

110 Charles Johnson  Jun 15, 2014 1:28:54pm

Deranged stalkers continue trying to smear me every single day, with posts and opinions I have totally renounced years ago.

111 Bear  Jun 15, 2014 1:29:04pm

re: #109 sattv4u2

Where will they find a phone booth now?

112 sattv4u2  Jun 15, 2014 1:30:41pm

re: #111 Bear

Where will they find a phone booth now?

Yeah. Good point

Nowadays Clark Kent/ Superman just changes right out in the middle of the street

113 Charles Johnson  Jun 15, 2014 1:34:34pm
114 Gus  Jun 15, 2014 1:34:55pm

re: #110 Charles Johnson

Deranged stalkers continue trying to smear me every single day, with posts and opinions I have totally renounced years ago.

[Embedded content]

115 Skip Intro  Jun 15, 2014 1:36:17pm

re: #28 Skip Intro

Reince Priebus After Eric Cantor Loss: I Don’t Think GOP Is Divided

Does Prince Reibus have any idea about what’s happening in the party he allegedly leads?

Raul Labrador Adjourns Idaho GOP Meeting As Party Hits ‘Rock Bottom’

The Idaho Republican running for House majority leader had to adjourn the state GOP convention on Saturday without accomplishing much of anything, after infighting brought the meeting to a total standstill.

Idaho Republicans met for a three-day convention starting on Thursday, with the goal of passing several amendments to the party’s platform and electing a new party chair. But the event became a battle between the tea party and its foes, as the far right aimed to make up for the beating they took in the state’s May 20 primary election by removing contentiously elected delegates. Those delegates accused tea partiers of attempting to work the system to ensure a tea partier became the new state GOP chair.

By Saturday, all 15 delegates from Bannock County were successfully unseated, while attempts to unseat delegates from Ada and Twin Falls counties were in the works. Rep. Raul Labrador (R-Idaho), the convention chairman, ended up bringing the meeting to an end before delegates could elect a new state party chair or vote on any party platform amendments, as they had set out to do.

huffingtonpost.com

116 Charles Johnson  Jun 15, 2014 1:41:11pm

re: #115 Skip Intro

Does Prince Reibus have any idea about what’s happening in the party he allegedly leads?

Raul Labrador Adjourns Idaho GOP Meeting As Party Hits ‘Rock Bottom’

huffingtonpost.com

Oh, Priebus knows very well what’s happening in the GOP. But he can never say it out loud.

117 RealityBasedSteve  Jun 15, 2014 1:42:03pm

re: #100 Gus

[Embedded content]

Hey, a skilled prostitute will always give the client what they want…

RBS

118 Skip Intro  Jun 15, 2014 1:43:23pm

re: #116 Charles Johnson

Oh, Priebus knows very well what’s happening in the GOP. But he can never say it out loud.

Another take.

Idaho GOP convention fiasco leaves state’s majority party in disarray

spokesman.com

Yup, everything’s just fine Prince. I’m sure that would sell on Fox.

119 Justanotherhuman  Jun 15, 2014 1:45:49pm

If you’re one of a myriad of Marxist splinter groups, what does that portend for any kind of success in your chosen left wing political thinking? You can’t ever agree on everything and let minor details oust yourselves. OTOH, the Republican Party is starting to look very similar with its infusion of libertarianism, which may swallow it whole eventually and will be as scattered as the Left ever was in the US.

I think the Democratic Party is safe. After all, they’re the only party that can actually push through your civil rights—proven.

120 Dr. Matt  Jun 15, 2014 1:53:08pm

re: #113 Charles Johnson

The face of an obsessed loser

Ugh. What a pathetic punkass chump pretending to be a guido. Seriously, this man-child spends every day obsessed….seriously obsessed with everything LGF. The man-child is decades overdue for extensive chemical, electrical, surgical, and psycho-therapies. I hope and pray that man-child doesn’t breed.

121 Justanotherhuman  Jun 15, 2014 2:00:43pm

23re: #116 Charles Johnson

Oh, Priebus knows very well what’s happening in the GOP. But he can never say it out loud.

Nice little libertarian tantrum Labrador had there. Oh yeah, he’s one of them.

122 Pie-onist Overlord  Jun 15, 2014 2:05:00pm

Well, I marinated a deckel brisket in beer, because it’s Father’s Day and Zedushka said that’s what he wants.

I looked up “How to grill beef brisket” and found all these complicated recipes that require smoking for 12 hours with applewood chips.

Fuck it, I’ll just make it in the pressure cooker.

123 Justanotherhuman  Jun 15, 2014 2:06:55pm

Expecting the worst, I suppose.

US Embassy in Baghdad plans to evacuate a substantial number of its personnel this week - @nytimes
Read more on nytimes.com

124 Killgore Trout  Jun 15, 2014 2:08:25pm

re: #123 Justanotherhuman

“This week”? I guess they’re not in much of a hurry.

125 Gus  Jun 15, 2014 2:09:29pm

Over the last week there have been three attacks - one in Canada and two in the United States - in which law enforcement officers were targeted, leading to the death of five officers and one civilian. Based upon reporting it appears all the suspects in these incidents were motivated by elements of a far right anti-government ideology with a particular fixation on law enforcement. While it is unknown whether this spike is indicative of a long term increasing trend, it is significant from a near term perspective due to the short time frame and purposeful targeting of law enforcement.

Continues.

126 Justanotherhuman  Jun 15, 2014 2:09:56pm

re: #124 Killgore Trout

“This week”? I guess they’re not in much of a hurry.

They have the intelligence; you don’t.

127 sattv4u2  Jun 15, 2014 2:10:02pm

re: #123 Justanotherhuman

Expecting the worst, I suppose.

US Embassy in Baghdad plans to evacuate a substantial number of its personnel this week - @nytimes
Read more on nytimes.com

Kinda surprised they’re not already out

Or at least “non essential personnel”

((always kinda wondered how i’d feel being labeled a “non-essential” ))

128 Gus  Jun 15, 2014 2:10:18pm

The recent attacks serve to highlight a trend of growing violence by far right extremists that is likely to continue in the near term. While attacks by lone offenders or small groups, common amongst far right extremists, are often difficult to detect and can occur with little or no warning, law enforcement should remain vigilant to any indicators or suspicious activity related to the persistent far right extremist threat. As always, observance of suspicious individuals and activities should immediately be reported to the New York State Intelligence Center - Counter Terrorism Center, Terrorism Tips Line at 1-866-SAFE-NYS ([no phone numbers allowed]).

129 Charles Johnson  Jun 15, 2014 2:10:20pm
130 Kragar  Jun 15, 2014 2:10:29pm

re: #124 Killgore Trout

“This week”? I guess they’re not in much of a hurry.

Or it could take a week to safely and efficiently make sure you evacuate people from around the country, secure assets, etc

131 sattv4u2  Jun 15, 2014 2:10:47pm

re: #124 Killgore Trout

“This week”? I guess they’re not in much of a hurry.

Yeah. Same thought (127)

132 Decatur Deb  Jun 15, 2014 2:12:41pm

re: #124 Killgore Trout

“This week”? I guess they’re not in much of a hurry.

Different levels (voluntary/non-essential/mandatory) of embassy ‘evacuation’ aren’t that exciting. We had 1-2 per year when Saddam was threatening to scud Tel Aviv.

133 Killgore Trout  Jun 15, 2014 2:13:38pm

What does “polarization” mean?

You keep using that word “polarization.” I do not think it means what you think it means.

134 Killgore Trout  Jun 15, 2014 2:15:57pm

re: #132 Decatur Deb

Different levels (voluntary/non-essential/mandatory) of embassy ‘evacuation’ aren’t that exciting. We had 1-2 per year when Saddam was threatening to scud Tel Aviv.

My mom was on the State Dept task force in DC coordinating with the Baghdad embassy during the 1st Gulf War.

135 palomino  Jun 15, 2014 2:17:19pm

re: #129 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Exactly. The geniuses who planned the Iraq War had a decade to nation build. They failed. It’s time to try something completely new, after hopefully learning something since 2003.

We aren’t responsible for the Sunni-Shia divisions that go back centuries. Maybe we should let them sort out their own shit. If oil prices go up, so what? It’s cheaper to buy the fucking oil, both in human and monetary costs, than it is to engage in decades of failed nation building.

136 Ryan King  Jun 15, 2014 2:18:23pm

re: #122 Pie-onist Overlord

Well, I marinated a deckel brisket in beer, because it’s Father’s Day and Zedushka said that’s what he wants.

Delicious, but too much work.

I’m lazy so I just go here:

137 Justanotherhuman  Jun 15, 2014 2:18:43pm

re: #127 sattv4u2

Kinda surprised they’re not already out

Or at least “non essential personnel”

((always kinda wondered how i’d feel being labeled a “non-essential” ))

If you were reading the threads the other day, you’d know there are over 5,000 people working at the embassy; most of those are non-US folks who do the scut work, like cleaning, kitchen work, etc.

138 Pie-onist Overlord  Jun 15, 2014 2:19:49pm

re: #136 Ryan King

Delicious, but too much work.

I’m lazy so I just go here:
[Embedded image]

Where is that? Looks like Florida.

139 Killgore Trout  Jun 15, 2014 2:19:57pm

re: #127 sattv4u2

Kinda surprised they’re not already out

Or at least “non essential personnel”

((always kinda wondered how i’d feel being labeled a “non-essential” ))

Heh. It’s the best designation to get in State Dept circles. My dad was in security so he was considered “essential” in most situations, mom was very happy to be way down on the non essential list.

140 Charles Johnson  Jun 15, 2014 2:20:25pm
141 sattv4u2  Jun 15, 2014 2:21:15pm

re: #137 Justanotherhuman

If you were reading the threads the other day, you’d know there are over 5,000 people working at the embassy; most of those are non-US folks who do the scut work, like cleaning, kitchen work, etc.

Then they don’t have to be evacuated, huh!

I assumed we were talking about US personnel. Diplomats, staff, security, etc

142 Killgore Trout  Jun 15, 2014 2:21:46pm

re: #137 Justanotherhuman

If you were reading the threads the other day, you’d know there are over 5,000 people working at the embassy; most of those are non-US folks who do the scut work, like cleaning, kitchen work, etc.

Aren’t they using locals for that? I’m pretty sure we don’t evacuate locals from their own countries.

143 Gus  Jun 15, 2014 2:22:49pm

Weird. They monitor who we interact with on Twitter than like a door to door evangelist proceed to spam said person we interact with with derpy links to their stupid stalker website. Every. Single. Day.

144 freetoken  Jun 15, 2014 2:23:05pm

So this happened 31 minutes ago.

Someone wrote an article titled “HATE GROUP DECEIVES ABOUT ISLAMIC JEW-HATRED”.

It’s at WND.

It was written by…. Pamela Geller.

What a perfect inversion of reality.

145 Decatur Deb  Jun 15, 2014 2:23:29pm

re: #137 Justanotherhuman

If you were reading the threads the other day, you’d know there are over 5,000 people working at the embassy; most of those are non-US folks who do the scut work, like cleaning, kitchen work, etc.

For the most part, ‘essential’ is someone whose absence makes the mission of the embassy stop immediately or in a very short time. If your work is oriented to sustaining the facility and mission over time, you are ‘non-essential’. That includes spouses and children in locations that have accompanied tours.

146 Killgore Trout  Jun 15, 2014 2:24:34pm

“Abdul, Good news: you’ve been hired as a janitor for the Embassy! Bad News: we’re evacuating you to Guatemala. Get packed”

147 Pie-onist Overlord  Jun 15, 2014 2:25:36pm

I am remembering my dad today.

He passed away on Nov. 15, 2010.

148 Pie-onist Overlord  Jun 15, 2014 2:26:02pm

re: #144 freetoken

So this happened 31 minutes ago.

Someone wrote an article titled “HATE GROUP DECEIVES ABOUT ISLAMIC JEW-HATRED”.

It’s at WND.

It was written by…. Pamela Geller.

What a perfect inversion of reality.

Pam does a bunch of projection.

149 Gus  Jun 15, 2014 2:26:25pm

It’s already next week in Baghdad.

150 Charles Johnson  Jun 15, 2014 2:26:44pm

re: #143 Gus

Weird. They monitor who we interact with on Twitter than like a door to door evangelist proceed to spam said person we interact with with derpy links to their stupid stalker website. Every. Single. Day.

Yes, every day. For years.

People who spend every waking minute devoted to character assassination. And then if you call them what they are — stalkers — they claim you’re stalking them. This is the classic stalker psychology.

In the Mind of a Stalker.

151 palomino  Jun 15, 2014 2:27:23pm

re: #133 Killgore Trout

What does “polarization” mean?

Another bullshit attempt at the magical balance fairy.

Here’s the thing: if you look at actual issues, the GOP has substantively moved right over the last decade. Look at gop platforms, laws passed by gop state legislatures, and the substance of the gop debate in Congress. The Dems, even under the socialist Obama, have not moved significantly to the left during this same period of time. Other than same sex marriage, what issues have the Dems gone “far left” on?

152 Justanotherhuman  Jun 15, 2014 2:27:45pm

re: #141 sattv4u2

Then they don’t have to be evacuated, huh!

I assumed we were talking about US personnel. Diplomats, staff, security, etc

Those people, yes, will be evacuated. I don’t think it’s essential that the Pizza Hut keep up operations. But I don’t know if those are local or contractors from outside the country, to be honest.

And I didn’t mean to imply that their lives weren’t worth as much as anyone else’s.

153 Killgore Trout  Jun 15, 2014 2:27:55pm

re: #149 Gus

It’s already next week in Baghdad.

OMG! Baghdad Time Machine!
/heh, good point

154 Justanotherhuman  Jun 15, 2014 2:29:32pm

re: #151 palomino

Another bullshit attempt at the magical balance fairy.

Here’s the thing: if you look at actual issues, the GOP has substantively moved right over the last decade. Look at gop platforms, laws passed by gop state legislatures, and the substance of the gop debate in Congress. The Dems, even under the socialist Obama, have not moved significantly to the left during this same period of time. Other than same sex marriage, what issues have the Dems gone “far left” on?

Too many getting food stamps because of a piss poor economy the Rs were responsible for?

155 CuriousLurker  Jun 15, 2014 2:30:40pm

re: #147 Pie-onist Overlord

I am remembering my dad today.

He passed away on Nov. 15, 2010.

Same here. I was still a teenager when mine passed away a few days after Christmas in 1978. I wish I’d had a chance to get to know him as an adult.

156 Charles Johnson  Jun 15, 2014 2:33:32pm

Never knew my father - he walked out on the family when I was two years old, and I never heard from him again.

157 jaunte  Jun 15, 2014 2:34:19pm

re: #133 Killgore Trout

What does “polarization” mean?

Nichols:

This was an unremarkable (if tragic) finding, but what really scorched a lot of people — and by “a lot of people,” I mean “liberals” — is that Pew reinforced the notion that this division in American life is roughly symmetrical. That is, it’s happening on both sides, with left and right each deserting the center.

The weakness in his piece is that he doesn’t mention anyone specific, so it’s impossible to see what their arguments really were.

158 sattv4u2  Jun 15, 2014 2:34:32pm

re: #146 Killgore Trout

“Abdul, Good news: you’ve been hired as a janitor for the Embassy! Bad News: we’re evacuating you to Guatemala. Get packed”

Could be worse

Could have transferred him to Chicago!!

I KID ,, I KID!!!

159 Charles Johnson  Jun 15, 2014 2:35:28pm

re: #157 jaunte

I always have a problem when people say they’re decrying partisanship, and then make blatantly partisan comments like that right in the middle of it.

160 Ryan King  Jun 15, 2014 2:35:41pm

re: #138 Pie-onist Overlord

Where is that? Looks like Florida.

Kailua Kona, HI

Like Florida, but 5 degrees cooler and less crazy.

161 Gus  Jun 15, 2014 2:36:05pm

re: #159 Charles Johnson

I always have a problem when people say they’re decrying partisanship, and then make blatantly partisan comments like that right in the middle of it.

Yes. I noticed that. :D :D

162 Gus  Jun 15, 2014 2:36:36pm

All you Democrats stop being so partisan while I talk about how great Reagan was.

163 jaunte  Jun 15, 2014 2:38:14pm

One of my daughters brought her kids by to give me a Father’s Day present. A Duck Dynasty cup. Woot!

164 Killgore Trout  Jun 15, 2014 2:38:28pm

re: #157 jaunte

Nichols:

The weakness in his piece is that he doesn’t mention anyone specific, so it’s impossible to see what their arguments really were.

Check his twitter timeline, he’s been talking about the past couple days. There might be some examples there.

165 Killgore Trout  Jun 15, 2014 2:39:04pm

re: #158 sattv4u2

Could be worse

Could have transferred him to Chicago!!

I KID ,, I KID!!!

Shhh!

166 jaunte  Jun 15, 2014 2:40:20pm

re: #164 Killgore Trout

He should have included a few asterisks.

167 GlutenFreeJesus  Jun 15, 2014 2:41:54pm

re: #63 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

The sectarian divide in Iraq that’s part of why this is causing so much chaos is something you denied the existence of a couple of weeks ago. Have you put any thought into how you managed to so horrendously misread Iraq? I’m figuring it’s that you haven’t actually looked into the situation in Iraq in years, being content to declare victory when McCain did, but I’d be interested if there was another reason why you predicted stability for Iraq a mere three weeks before insurgents captured major cities and the government showed its complete lack of stability.

No answer? My surprise. ———>

168 goddamnedfrank  Jun 15, 2014 2:43:47pm

re: #157 jaunte

Nichols:

The weakness in his piece is that he doesn’t mention anyone specific, so it’s impossible to see what their arguments really were.

Also, when liberal support for things like gay marriage goes up, is that abandoning the middle? How do we define middle on such issues of basic civil rights and equality, is the middle civil unions and spotty adoption rights?

You can’t measure basic progress on fundamental issues of fairness by triangulating middle from two positions. Especially when one side is moving in the right direction and the other is digging in their heels to maintain bigotry.

169 sattv4u2  Jun 15, 2014 2:44:20pm

re: #165 Killgore Trout

Shhh!

I don’t think I know how too

170 Belafon  Jun 15, 2014 2:46:29pm

re: #91 Lidane

Throw in something about noncentralized decisions about production, and you’re really close to what a Democrat is.

171 palomino  Jun 15, 2014 2:47:54pm

re: #164 Killgore Trout

Check his twitter timeline, he’s been talking about the past couple days. There might be some examples there.

You don’t know if there are any examples there? You’re just referring people to twitter timelines because there might be something there.

Could you be any fucking lazier? Or more dishonest?

172 CuriousLurker  Jun 15, 2014 2:48:48pm

re: #164 Killgore Trout

Check his twitter timeline, he’s been talking about the past couple days. There might be some examples there.

Like this? I realize it may be somewhat tongue in cheek since there was some bantering going on, but still…

173 palomino  Jun 15, 2014 2:51:31pm

re: #165 Killgore Trout

Shhh!

Please tell us more about the shooting stats in Chicago.

And while you’re at it, feel free to ignore the fact that the murder rate is higher in Baltimore, Atlanta, New Orleans, DC, Miami, and a half dozen other cities.

It’s one thing to just be a troll. Like you used to be.

It’s quite another thing to be a troll who’s so fucking lazy and indifferent to the truth that you don’t even give a shit about specifics, details or facts.

174 Kid A  Jun 15, 2014 2:52:06pm

re: #172 CuriousLurker

175 sattv4u2  Jun 15, 2014 2:52:28pm

re: #171 palomino

Could you be any fucking lazier? Or more dishonest?

I’m sure he could be. maybe if we encourage him. You know. Some positive reinforcement!!

176 Charles Johnson  Jun 15, 2014 2:52:31pm

Tom Nichols is definitely no liberal. But he’s one of the few conservatives I know these days who isn’t completely nuts and impossible to talk to, even though I disagree vehemently with many of his political views.

177 sattv4u2  Jun 15, 2014 2:55:59pm

re: #175 sattv4u2

Could you be any fucking lazier? Or more dishonest?

I’m sure he could be. maybe if we encourage him. You know. Some positive reinforcement!!

Kilgore Kilgore
He’s our man
If he can’t be any fucking lazier or more dishonest
nobody can!
//

178 Gus  Jun 15, 2014 2:56:18pm

re: #172 CuriousLurker

Like this? I realize it may be somewhat tongue in cheek since there was some bantering going on, but still…

[Embedded content]

Those two always go “at it.” :D

179 Justanotherhuman  Jun 15, 2014 2:56:45pm

re: #156 Charles Johnson

Never knew my father - he walked out on the family when I was two years old, and I never heard from him again.

The story of my kids.

180 Gus  Jun 15, 2014 2:58:28pm

Tired. I has it.

181 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Jun 15, 2014 2:58:40pm

re: #176 Charles Johnson

Tom Nichols is definitely no liberal. But he’s one of the few conservatives I know these days who isn’t completely nuts and impossible to talk to, even though I disagree vehemently with many of his political views.

He’s really wrong about a lot of stuff but doesn’t seem to be a seething ball of flaming rage, fear, and vituperation, which puts him heads and shoulders above most of the GOP.

The truth is that ‘liberals’ have solidified their positions on things like gay marriage and separation of church and state. This is a good thing, and is progress. That the GOP are so far away from them isn’t ‘partisanship’: Democrats really do support gay rights. GOP people really do oppose them. They’re actually separated on the issue, not just because their party heads are.

For example, Democrats and Republicans aren’t actually separated on the idea of taxing the rich more—Republicans support it, it’s just that the elected Republicans don’t, because they don’t actually serve their constituencies or their interests.

182 Killgore Trout  Jun 15, 2014 2:58:50pm

re: #172 CuriousLurker

Like this? I realize it may be somewhat tongue in cheek since there was some bantering going on, but still…

[Embedded content]

Yeah, he catches a lot of shit for being relatively moderate.

183 Justanotherhuman  Jun 15, 2014 2:59:08pm

re: #163 jaunte

One of my daughters brought her kids by to give me a Father’s Day present. A Duck Dynasty cup. Woot!

My granddaughter bought my other son a DD tee shirt. : (

She is missing her dad today.

184 Killgore Trout  Jun 15, 2014 3:02:04pm

Goodbye, bowling club

In a 1995 article (which developed into the best-selling book “Bowling Alone”), Harvard professor Robert Putnam made the distressing observation that Americans—once a nation of joiners and participants—seemed to be losing their impulse to do things together. “There is striking evidence…that the vibrancy of American civil society has notably declined over the past several decades,” he wrote. New evidence from sociologists at the University of Wyoming and the University of Texas at Austin backs him up. They analyzed the Iowa Community Survey, which surveyed “approximately 10,000 citizens in 99 small towns in Iowa” in 1994 and again in 2004, and found that Iowans did indeed have fewer memberships in 2004 across all categories of associations, with an increase in “checkbook” memberships (nominal group membership, without really participating) that was more than offset by the decline in face-to-face involvement. This pattern held up even when controlling for gender, age, education, household children, homeownership, and tenure in the community. A similar pattern was found in national survey data.

185 Backwoods_Sleuth  Jun 15, 2014 3:04:03pm

No idea why some people here think it’s funny to be rooting for worst case scenarios, why they think it makes them look all edgy and stuff, and why they court the downdings like they are supposed to be badges of honor.
Got stuffs to do here. Back later…

186 Kragar  Jun 15, 2014 3:09:49pm
187 Gus  Jun 15, 2014 3:12:23pm

re: #186 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Does this mean she’s going bowling alone?

//

188 ObserverArt  Jun 15, 2014 3:15:38pm

re: #155 CuriousLurker

Same here. I was still a teenager when mine passed away a few days after Christmas in 1978. I wish I’d had a chance to get to know him as an adult.

My father passed away a few days before Christmas the same year. Even though he was 72, he was still young to me as I was 24 at the time. I was a late late arrival to the family…14 years younger than the oldest and 8 years younger than the next youngest. In a way I was somewhat like an only child since by the time I was in first grade my brothers were almost out of high school.

I learned a lot about real maturity and how to act because he was already very mature and jaded by his hard life as a young man during the WW1 and depression years. In a way, his age aged me emotionally and experience wise. He was older when he married, as was my mother. I am very thankful for that, as I heard a lot about my brothers and his brothers screw ups and what-not-to-do stories. I came from parents that had been through a lot by the time they married, and that was good for all of us in many ways.

So even though he wasn’t in my life during my professional years, he really gave me the info one would have learned had I been 45 and him 72. I will always be thankful for that.

Happy fathers day!

189 Justanotherhuman  Jun 15, 2014 3:16:48pm

US military official: Military reinforcement of embassy security in Baghdad includes less than 100 soldiers - @Reuters
End of alert

190 CuriousLurker  Jun 15, 2014 3:20:09pm

re: #184 Killgore Trout

[Embedded content]

Goodbye, bowling club

I don’t see anything on that page that proves or even attempts to explain a correlation between Americans’ impulse to move away from group membership and towards increased partisanship.

As a matter of fact, now that I think of it:

less willingness to join groups = increased tribalism

Seems highly unlikely logically speaking, but I’m not a social scientist, so what do I know? The entire 2004 report can be downloaded as a PDF from here, but… meh, I’m not really interested in spending a portion of my Sunday on that.

191 Justanotherhuman  Jun 15, 2014 3:23:25pm

re: #186 Kragar

[Embedded content]

It’s worse than what HP reports.

aattp.org

It’s not just about vaccinations…

Toddler Playing with Live Ammunition

192 Lidane  Jun 15, 2014 3:25:02pm

re: #156 Charles Johnson

Never knew my father - he walked out on the family when I was two years old, and I never heard from him again.

Mine died in a car accident when I was 3 1/2 months old. All I have are photographs and stories from other people. I don’t have a single memory of him at all.

193 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Jun 15, 2014 3:26:29pm

re: #190 CuriousLurker

There is no obvious or immediate correlation between partisanship and lack of membership in official social groups.

An obvious other reason would be that new technology has allowed people to form ad hoc groups that replaced formalized older groups.

194 goddamnedfrank  Jun 15, 2014 3:28:00pm

re: #193 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

There is no obvious or immediate correlation between partisanship and lack of membership in official social groups.

An obvious other reason would be that new technology has allowed people to form ad hoc groups that replaced formalized older groups.

Take the skinheads mmorpging, take them mmorpging.

195 Lidane  Jun 15, 2014 3:29:02pm

re: #170 Belafon

Throw in something about noncentralized decisions about production, and you’re really close to what a Democrat is.

On what planet is a libertarian socialist anywhere close to the Democratic party? Especially the modern Democratic party?

Today’s Dems are closer to Eisenhower-era Republicans than anything else, starting with POTUS.

196 Feline Fearless Leader  Jun 15, 2014 3:29:29pm

re: #193 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

There is no obvious or immediate correlation between partisanship and lack of membership in official social groups.

An obvious other reason would be that new technology has allowed people to form ad hoc groups that replaced formalized older groups.

I know of two reasons a bowling league I was in started to die out:
1. Husband working two low-paying jobs in order to make ends meet - no time for bowling.
2. Both husband and wife (with children) working jobs in order to make ends meet. Needed more time to handle children and thus less time for extra activities - especially those that ate up an evening every week.

197 CuriousLurker  Jun 15, 2014 3:31:38pm

re: #193 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

Thanks. I was sort of idly wondering how much technology might have to do with the changes.

198 Varek Raith  Jun 15, 2014 3:34:42pm

Chicaghazi!

199 jaunte  Jun 15, 2014 3:35:12pm

re: #190 CuriousLurker

Known and unknown unknowns.

200 goddamnedfrank  Jun 15, 2014 3:35:45pm

The only people who go bowling regularly now-a-days work in marketing for that fifty something female director who wears inappropriate belly shirts. They have to or they’ll lose their jobs.

201 ObserverArt  Jun 15, 2014 3:36:21pm

re: #190 CuriousLurker

I don’t see anything on that page that proves or even attempts to explain a correlation between Americans’ impulse to move away from group membership and towards increased partisanship.

As a matter of fact, now that I think of it:

less willingness to join groups = increased tribalism

Seems highly unlikely, logically speaking, but I’m not a social scientist, so what do I know? The entire 2004 report can be downloaded as a PDF from here, but… meh, I’m not really interested in spending a portion of my Sunday on that.

And, does it also lead to more of the dudbro style of libertarian thinking?

With the more lax parenting styles, more broken families and the everyone-is-special-and-a-winner type of schooling over the last 40 or so years, it just makes you wonder if we see more libertarians since so much of their lives have been centered on them and not the group. Does that make them see government and politics as being just for them and not for everyone?

I am no sociologist…and hopefully none were harmed by this post. I’m just wondering why there are way more libertarian types now than I can remember.

203 Kragar  Jun 15, 2014 3:36:45pm

re: #198 Varek Raith

Chicaghazi!

Youtube Video

204 Gus  Jun 15, 2014 3:36:59pm

CHIBEES

205 Kragar  Jun 15, 2014 3:37:13pm

re: #202 Varek Raith

Fox News freaks out over 4Chan hoax that feminists are plotting to end Father’s Day

Seriously, Fox?
Seriously?

Forget it Jake, its Fox News

206 goddamnedfrank  Jun 15, 2014 3:37:51pm

re: #197 CuriousLurker

Thanks. I was sort of idly wondering how much technology might have to do with the changes.

GPS enabled smart phones have liberated people from the perceived need to pretextualize getting their drink on.

207 ObserverArt  Jun 15, 2014 3:37:52pm

re: #191 Justanotherhuman

It’s worse than what HP reports.

aattp.org

It’s not just about vaccinations…

Toddler Playing with Live Ammunition

That is scary on so many levels. Wow.

208 Justanotherhuman  Jun 15, 2014 3:38:00pm

re: #191 Justanotherhuman

It’s worse than what HP reports.

aattp.org

It’s not just about vaccinations…

Toddler Playing with Live Ammunition

Actually, this is Lily Everett herself, the baby who was kidnapped by her mother, playing among the ammunition. Poor child, I hope she’s found.

209 Gus  Jun 15, 2014 3:39:08pm

re: #205 Kragar

Forget it Jake, its Fox News

Fox News is bowling alone.

//

210 jaunte  Jun 15, 2014 3:39:18pm

re: #202 Varek Raith

For analysis about what #EndFathersDay meant for American society, Fox & Friends brought in “Princeton Mom” Susan Patton, an anti-feminist whose recent book encouraged women in college to spend 75 percent of their time looking for a man to marry.

“They’re not just interested in ending Father’s Day, they’re interested in ending men,” Patton warned. “That’s really what they want.”

Not sure where the centrist position is on this one.

211 Killgore Trout  Jun 15, 2014 3:39:20pm

re: #190 CuriousLurker

I don’t see anything on that page that proves or even attempts to explain a correlation between Americans’ impulse to move away from group membership and towards increased partisanship.

As a matter of fact, now that I think of it:

less willingness to join groups = increased tribalism

Seems highly unlikely logically speaking, but I’m not a social scientist, so what do I know? The entire 2004 report can be downloaded as a PDF from here, but… meh, I’m not really interested in spending a portion of my Sunday on that.

He explains that in his article….
tomnichols.net

In 1995, Putnam wrote a seminal article (later a 2000 book called Bowling Alone) in which he noted that the social fabric of America was sustained by a nation of “joiners” who interacted with each other in social organizations like bowling leagues, the Elks, the American Legion, and other voluntary “horizontal” associations that spread across social groups. Putnam raised the alarm that we were no longer that kind of nation, increasingly retreating into our own homes rather than interact with each other.

I think that explains a lot. If you live on your own little island, surrounded by an electronic (or real) moat, you have less social interaction, and certainly less with people whom you don’t like or with whom you disagree. I can remember my parents being members of a lot of organizations, and while they were (like our little town) mostly white, they were full of Republicans and Democrats who argued with each other — oh, boy, did they argue — while sitting around the picnic tables. People just don’t join those groups anymore, and those arguments are now conducted among ill-tempered strangers from behind the anonymity of keyboards.

212 CuriousLurker  Jun 15, 2014 3:39:41pm

re: #199 jaunte

[Embedded image]

Known and unknown unknowns.

That sounds like someone I know… //

213 Gus  Jun 15, 2014 3:41:38pm

I’ll just put this here.

214 Gus  Jun 15, 2014 3:42:19pm

This “centrist” as malevolent citizens is kind of stupid.

215 Lidane  Jun 15, 2014 3:42:39pm
216 sattv4u2  Jun 15, 2014 3:42:41pm

re: #213 Gus

Guess you need a unique hat to join that pissing match!

217 Justanotherhuman  Jun 15, 2014 3:42:59pm

re: #214 Gus

This “centrist” as malevolent citizens is kind of stupid.

It’s what the right wing does.

218 jaunte  Jun 15, 2014 3:43:17pm

Seems a little iffy.

219 Killgore Trout  Jun 15, 2014 3:44:21pm

re: #211 Killgore Trout

He explains that in his article….
tomnichols.net

I’m the product of a mixed marriage (A Dem and a Republican). Also growing up in a Foreign Service family, dinner and party conversations were about global events and policy. It was normal for people to discuss and debate civilly in a social situation. Aside from the political appointees (who were never invited to parties anyways) I don’t recall any angry zealots. People were often passionate but it was civil.

220 sattv4u2  Jun 15, 2014 3:44:27pm

re: #218 jaunte

[Embedded image]

Seems a little iffy.

maybe

perhaps

221 Lidane  Jun 15, 2014 3:44:55pm

Heh.

222 Skip Intro  Jun 15, 2014 3:45:37pm

re: #202 Varek Raith

Fox News freaks out over 4Chan hoax that feminists are plotting to end Father’s Day

Seriously, Fox?
Seriously?

Dumb Fucker Carlson, naturally. I wonder if Steve Doocy realizes how easily he could be replaced?

223 Pie-onist Overlord  Jun 15, 2014 3:48:38pm

Well, this sucks==>

224 ObserverArt  Jun 15, 2014 3:49:12pm

I spent a big portion of yesterday, last night and this morning streaming several different sites for the Le Mans 24 hour race. It was pretty cool, I had one stream going that was the world TV coverage, without any sound but the sounds of the cars on track and car to pit communications. Another site was more or less the radio broadcast with all kinds of little windows that popped-up with stats, placements, etc. Pretty cool. Hopefully some day all media will be like that…you can choose what you want to hear and see. I felt like an editor for my own programming.

And with that, I have a web store to finish…the client has been holding back going live for months…and now he wants it up and going and there are already major changes due to new software updates and plug-ins, etc. I’ll need to test all the functions again, etc. Sigh.

So back to work. Later LIzards…fathers enjoy your day!!!

I love the internet…the internet hates me…I love the internet…the internet hates me…(picking at a daisy!)

225 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Jun 15, 2014 3:52:08pm

re: #197 CuriousLurker

Thanks. I was sort of idly wondering how much technology might have to do with the changes.

If someone wanted to make a real argument about the connection between partisanship and membership in groups, it’d take a lot of research and a lot of writing, not a tweet.

This is the annoying thing about twitter. Maybe Nichols has put some serious thought into that connection. It’s a thought totally unsuited to twitter, and it’s presented as just a conclusion. No link to an article.

226 CuriousLurker  Jun 15, 2014 3:53:18pm

re: #211 Killgore Trout

He explains that in his article….
tomnichols.net

I see, however there was no link to his article in the tweet you posted—I didn’t realize he was a sociologist in addition to all of his war/military credentials. Oh wait, he’s not. Neither am I, and since the 2004 report isn’t definitive—see jaunte’s #199—I’m gonna leave it alone now.

227 Gus  Jun 15, 2014 3:53:27pm
228 Charles Johnson  Jun 15, 2014 3:53:43pm

Genius alert…

229 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Jun 15, 2014 3:54:23pm

re: #219 Killgore Trout

I’m the product of a mixed marriage (A Dem and a Republican). Also growing up in a Foreign Service family, dinner and party conversations were about global events and policy. It was normal for people to discuss and debate civilly in a social situation. Aside from the political appointees (who were never invited to parties anyways) I don’t recall any angry zealots. People were often passionate but it was civil.

So nobody, for example, accused other people of supporting rape and murder by supporting protests, the way you did, or said that the only thing better than watching women (who you totally falsely accused of being marxist trust-funders) being pepper-sprayed for peacefully protesting was watching them get pepper-sprayed in slow motion, like you did?

A shame your upbringing didn’t leave any lasting effect on you.

230 Justanotherhuman  Jun 15, 2014 3:55:31pm

More on the Lilly Everett kidnapping, including a photo of her mother’s car.

donationto.com

231 Kragar  Jun 15, 2014 3:55:52pm

re: #228 Charles Johnson

Genius alert…

[Embedded content]

232 Gus  Jun 15, 2014 3:56:41pm
233 Gus  Jun 15, 2014 4:00:02pm
234 Gus  Jun 15, 2014 4:00:45pm

George W. Bush’s Iraq War Shit Sandwich………..$5.95

235 Belafon  Jun 15, 2014 4:00:46pm

re: #195 Lidane

Today’s Dems are closer to Eisenhower-era Republicans than anything else, starting with POTUS.

No, Democrats do not favor the socialist idea of worker ownership. They never have (as some have said, it was Democrats that saved capitalism during the Great Depression). But I do think Democrats support more rights for workers to be equal parters with corporations in business decisions. I’m going to assume that we don’t need to argue about the social argument for individual rights of people.

As for the term Eisenhower Republican, those were Republicans who were too scared at the time to talk like pre-Depression Republicans. They were the same people. Modern Democrats are not that far right. They may not be as far left as a lot of people would like, but neither is the country, especially the party of the country that votes every two years.

236 Kragar  Jun 15, 2014 4:01:30pm

re: #233 Gus

[Embedded content]

237 Belafon  Jun 15, 2014 4:02:22pm

re: #202 Varek Raith

Fox News freaks out over 4Chan hoax that feminists are plotting to end Father’s Day

Seriously, Fox?
Seriously?

Are you allowed to use seriously and Fox in the same sentence?

238 goddamnedfrank  Jun 15, 2014 4:02:50pm

The biggest reason for Obama honoring the Bush withdrawal timeline, aside from Iraq being a colossal shit show, was that Al Maliki refused to grant any remaining US troops prosecutorial immunity from Iraq law.

I haven’t heard a single convincing argument from conservatives that this should have been ignored, or how it could have been circumvented. They simply assert without evidence or specifics that Obama could have somehow twisted Maliki’s arm into granting immunity, but that he didn’t try hard enough. They never describe what Obama should have done to accomplish this incredibly idiotic goal.

239 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Jun 15, 2014 4:04:34pm

re: #226 CuriousLurker

The article is pretty unimpressive. He makes a ton of assumptions: That ‘partisanship’ indicates both sides are in some way to ‘blame’—as if it’s a negative that some people are strongly in favor of civil rights for gay people, for rights for immigrants, etc.

He also just assumes that the ‘Bowling Alone’ thing really does show less socialization.

The article meanders around not doing very much. He makes a few good points that lots of these judgments are subjective. He misses, however, the obvious conclusion from looking at US history in the 20th century that, consistently, ‘conservatives’ oppose a particular swathe of civil rights for minorities, and ‘liberals’, slowly, creakingly, support them. He doesn’t really address the correctness of either party’s position, leaving his article just an abstract conversation about points on a spectrum where either end is assumed to have the same value.

It’s a common problem that any remotely decent Republican or ‘conservative’ or ‘classical liberal’ or whatever they want to call themselves has these days: Their philosophy has been shown, in the real world, to have horrible effects, especially in terms of racism and classism, and so talking about the actual substantive achievements of ‘conservatives’ vs. ‘liberals’ over time shows ‘liberals’ to be on the right side of nearly every important issue. Back before the Religious Right was invited to take over the GOP, the GOP used to have it over the ‘Left’ in terms of science in a number of ways—‘liberals’ were feeling the use of science tended to be for warfare and automation, both problematic, and the GOP had some valid claim to being right on major issues the left was wrong about.

But in terms of civil rights, the history of ‘conservatives’ is opposing civil rights for minorities, and that is really difficult for conservatives who aren’t actually racist to deal with. So instead they have to try to lay a level of abstraction, as though there’s any actual problem with the Democrats leading on gay rights. It’s a good thing the Democrats are partisan about civil rights.

240 Targetpractice  Jun 15, 2014 4:06:41pm

re: #238 goddamnedfrank

The biggest reason for Obama honoring the Bush withdrawal timeline, aside from Iraq being a colossal shit show, was that Al Maliki refused to grant any remaining US troops prosecutorial immunity from Iraq law.

I haven’t heard a single convincing argument from conservatives that this should have been ignored, or how it could have been circumvented. They simply assert without evidence or specifics that Obama could have somehow twisted Maliki’s arm into granting immunity, but that he didn’t try hard enough. They never describe what Obama should have done to accomplish this incredibly idiotic goal.

Oh, if I wanted to dig, I’d find articles from wingnuts from back in the day, screaming that Obama didn’t “do enough” to secure an SOFA with Maliki, that he hadn’t made enough phone calls, not had enough meetings, not made enough offers/threats, and more than a few completely missing the point to declare that Bush would have secured that SOFA with immunity included and that was proof that Obama wasn’t up to snuff.

241 Charles Johnson  Jun 15, 2014 4:08:02pm

Stumbled across this interesting article today: Lie by Lie: A Timeline of How We Got Into Iraq.

Very detailed. Interesting to read it all again in chronological sequence.

242 Gus  Jun 15, 2014 4:08:55pm

Oops.

243 Gus  Jun 15, 2014 4:09:48pm
244 goddamnedfrank  Jun 15, 2014 4:12:09pm

re: #240 Targetpractice

Oh, if I wanted to dig, I’d find articles from wingnuts from back in the day, screaming that Obama didn’t “do enough” to secure an SOFA with Maliki, that he hadn’t made enough phone calls, not had enough meetings, not made enough offers/threats, and more than a few completely missing the point to declare that Bush would have secured that SOFA with immunity included and that was proof that Obama wasn’t up to snuff.

All of which ignores the fact that staying in Iraq was a horrible goal. Horrible objectively, the Iraqis overwhelmingly wanted us out, and horrible politically, the American people were / are extremely war weary and wanted us out too.

Only the most retarded of conservative hawks mourn the loss of perpetual military conflict.

245 Kragar  Jun 15, 2014 4:12:14pm
246 urbanmeemaw  Jun 15, 2014 4:13:53pm

re: #57 Justanotherhuman

He’ll be in your neck of the woods this coming week. : )

Where is the Tangent Red Area 47 Obama Gulag in California where Glenn will be languishing?

247 Decatur Deb  Jun 15, 2014 4:14:07pm

re: #228 Charles Johnson

Genius alert…

[Embedded content]

We grebes really hate being mistaken for loons. Happens all the time.

Image: Grebe_crested_hogganfield04363a.jpg

248 Gus  Jun 15, 2014 4:17:21pm

Also. Let the record show that President Obama also opposed the Iraq war as Senator.

249 RealityBasedSteve  Jun 15, 2014 4:18:21pm

re: #206 goddamnedfrank

GPS enabled smart phones have liberated people from the perceived need to pretextualize getting their drink on.

The fact that you used the “word” (and I use that term very loosely) pretextualize is why nobody wants to go bowling with you.

250 urbanmeemaw  Jun 15, 2014 4:18:46pm

re: #88 Pie-onist Overlord

My granddaughter graduated middle school today. She’s starting high school.

Damn when did I get so freaking OLD!!!!

My oldest grandson graduated from high school 2 weeks ago. Talk about feeling old…

251 Targetpractice  Jun 15, 2014 4:19:22pm

re: #244 goddamnedfrank

All of which ignores the fact that staying in Iraq was a horrible goal. Horrible objectively, the Iraqis overwhelmingly wanted us out, and horrible politically, the American people were / are extremely war weary and wanted us out too.

Only the most retarded of conservative hawks mourn the loss of perpetual military conflict.

It’s not so much mourning as sour grapes, as in every prediction about how a post-war Iraq would play out has come true. People were telling them for years that, no matter how long we stayed and how much we put into making Iraq stable, it would fall apart as soon as we left. I remember them sniffing at the idea of bets being taken on how long after we left would pass before the country dissolved into civil war. Speaking of which, any who put money on “2 years,” report to the front to collect your winnings.

252 Decatur Deb  Jun 15, 2014 4:20:52pm

re: #250 urbanmeemaw

My oldest grandson graduated from high school 2 weeks ago. Talk about feeling old…

Had our first great-granddaughter a week ago. Didn’t post about it until she got out of NIC. All is going well now.

253 Gus  Jun 15, 2014 4:21:04pm

Still my favorite.

254 Stanley Sea  Jun 15, 2014 4:22:03pm

re: #252 Decatur Deb

Had our first great-granddaughter a week ago. Didn’t post about it until she got out of NIC. All is going well now.

Well congratulations DD!!

255 goddamnedfrank  Jun 15, 2014 4:23:42pm

re: #245 Kragar

Hey, not sure if you know about Kromlech, but they’ve got a bunch of good alternative Orky stuff for 40k.

256 urbanmeemaw  Jun 15, 2014 4:24:38pm

re: #92 Gus

[Embedded content]

So Weeniewald thought the US was OK in 2005 and disparaged protesters.

So why did he go from criticizing protesters of the US to criticizing supporters of the US after 2005? What event triggered him to despise people who support the US government? Hmmmm. Bueller? Anyone?

257 Decatur Deb  Jun 15, 2014 4:26:09pm

re: #256 urbanmeemaw

So Weeniewald thought the US was OK in 2005 and disparaged protesters.

So why did he go from criticizing protesters of the US to criticizing supporters of the US after 2005? What event triggered him to despise people who support the US government? Hmmmm. Bueller? Anyone?

GG has ‘grown’.

258 Gus  Jun 15, 2014 4:26:47pm

re: #257 Decatur Deb

GG has ‘grown’.

GG has groan.

259 Kragar  Jun 15, 2014 4:27:45pm

re: #255 goddamnedfrank

Hey, not sure if you know about Kromlech, but they’ve got a bunch of good alternative Orky stuff for 40k.

Not bad looking, but I divested myself of my Orks a few years back

260 Justanotherhuman  Jun 15, 2014 4:29:06pm

re: #252 Decatur Deb

Had our first great-granddaughter a week ago. Didn’t post about it until she got out of NIC. All is going well now.

You will enjoy the great-grandkids are much or more than the grands. Trust me on this. : )

261 Kragar  Jun 15, 2014 4:31:37pm

re: #255 goddamnedfrank

Hey, not sure if you know about Kromlech, but they’ve got a bunch of good alternative Orky stuff for 40k.

The Mechaarmor Orks are very nice though

262 Lidane  Jun 15, 2014 4:31:53pm
263 Romantic Heretic  Jun 15, 2014 4:34:19pm

re: #150 Charles Johnson

Yes, every day. For years.

People who spend every waking minute devoted to character assassination. And then if you call them what they are — stalkers — they claim you’re stalking them. This is the classic stalker psychology.

In the Mind of a Stalker.

It seems to me that most of your stalkers, from what I’ve heard of the days before I joined LGF, would fit into the ‘resentful’ category.

264 urbanmeemaw  Jun 15, 2014 4:38:39pm

re: #252 Decatur Deb

Congratulations!!!


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