And Now, L. Paul Bremer Wants to Send More US Soldiers Into Iraq

Still wrong after all these years
Middle East • Views: 49,075

The latest public figure who was utterly horribly wrong in almost everything he did in Iraq but now wants us to send more US soldiers to die for a neocon pipe dream is L. Paul Bremer, the guy who dissolved the Iraqi Army and very possibly engendered the situation Iraq is in right now: L. Paul Bremer: Only America Can Prevent a Disaster in Iraq.

If you want to skip the paywall and read Bremer’s latest bad advice in its awful entirety, click through from here: Only America Can Prevent a Disaster in Iraq - Google Search.

But I don’t really recommend it.

As I wrote yesterday on Twitter:

Also see
Don’t Be Sucked Into War With Iraq, Again

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127 comments
1 Testy Toad T  Jun 16, 2014 10:42:23am

Yes. Mmhmm. They will greet us as liberators, too!

After you, Paul. I’m sure we’ve got a spare rifle and helmet somewhere.

2 Bulworth  Jun 16, 2014 10:43:34am

If Obama hadn’t fired Bremer everything would have worked out fine.

3 allegro  Jun 16, 2014 10:43:38am

“Prevent” a disaster? Seriously? Kinda late for that…

4 iossarian  Jun 16, 2014 10:45:20am

“Paul, we need 500 words by 4:30.”

“OK, I’ll see what I can do. How does ‘we’ll be greeted as liberators’ work as a viewpoint.”

“Whatever, Paul. 500 words by 4:30.”

5 Kragar  Jun 16, 2014 10:45:31am

re: #3 allegro

“Prevent” a disaster? Seriously? Kinda late for that…

About 11 years late

6 Dr. Matt  Jun 16, 2014 10:46:01am

Yeah, let’s double triple-down on a failed policy….this only makes sense to the singular mind of a neocon.

7 HappyWarrior  Jun 16, 2014 10:46:17am

Agh. Sick of the people who fucked this situation up i.e. Cheney and Bremer acting like they have any credibility to talk here.

8 GunstarGreen  Jun 16, 2014 10:47:05am

We have always been at war with Eastasia in Iraq.

The Forever War™ is upon us. Perpetual combat, from now until the end of time.

New rule: everyone that votes to send the military into a situation are required by law to be the first on the ground, right up there with all the men and women they just voted to send to their deaths.

9 Targetpractice  Jun 16, 2014 10:47:21am

So, which one of his children or grandchildren is Paul volunteering to be maimed and/or killed in the name of this brain fart?

10 DubsCorleone  Jun 16, 2014 10:47:35am

L. Paul Bremer and everybody else that wants to go to Iraq, can submit their names and I’ll hold a fundraiser to make sure that they all get to go-free of charge, on me and my friends

It’s always easier to send some one else, why don’t they go, since want America over there so bad-why don’t they go and represent us…

11 HappyWarrior  Jun 16, 2014 10:49:01am

re: #10 DubsCorleone

L. Paul Bremer and everybody else that wants to go to Iraq, can submit their names and I’ll hold a fundraiser to make sure that they all get to go-free of charge, on me and my friends

It’s always easier to send some one else, why don’t they go, since want America over there so bad-why don’t they go and represent us…

And you nail what has always bothered me about the chickenshit mentality that is prevalent in the war hungry.

12 Targetpractice  Jun 16, 2014 10:49:48am

re: #8 GunstarGreen

We have always been at war with Eastasia in Iraq.

The Forever WarTM is upon us. Perpetual combat, from now until the end of time.

New rule: everyone that votes to send the military into a situation are required by law to be the first on the ground, right up there with all the men and women they just voted to send to their deaths.

I’m willing to allow the older fellows to opt out, but only if they first put forward a child or loved one that will take their place. After all, they gotta have “skin in the game.” And any who are so volunteered go straight to the front lines, do not pass GO!, do not collect $200.

13 Feline Fearless Leader  Jun 16, 2014 10:51:44am

re: #12 Targetpractice

I’m willing to allow the older fellows to opt out, but only if they first put forward a child or loved one that will take their place. After all, they gotta have “skin in the game.” And any who are so volunteered go straight to the front lines, do not pass GO!, do not collect $200.

Nope. Has to be themselves. Too many nuts have already shown through willful ignorance of climate change science, environmental controls on pollution, etc. etc. for political gain that they do not value future generations enough. Even their own.

14 Dr. Matt  Jun 16, 2014 10:52:33am
15 HappyWarrior  Jun 16, 2014 10:52:54am

re: #12 Targetpractice

I’m willing to allow the older fellows to opt out, but only if they first put forward a child or loved one that will take their place. After all, they gotta have “skin in the game.” And any who are so volunteered go straight to the front lines, do not pass GO!, do not collect $200.

I mean you got guys like Cheney who had the arrogance to claim that he had other priorities other than serving in Vietnam. I get that he was a father with children but so were some of the other men. Mitt Romney claims he would have loved to been there. Nothing was stopping him. There were plenty of young LDS men that served with my grandfather in Korea. It’s the arrogance. They think that this is so important but yet they don’t want to sacrifice themselves or their families. Real telling that none of Coward Mitt’s sons have never come close to serving and that Mitt equated their helping his campaign to military service.

16 Testy Toad T  Jun 16, 2014 10:53:24am

Remember back when the GOP was the absolute king of messaging and PR? What the hell happened? Where are Rove’s polling-based tea leaves now? Do they seriously think HURR DURR MOAR IRAQ is a winning electoral strategy? Have they flipped entirely, from amoral-do-whatever-it-takes-to-get-elected to elections-don’t-matter-TRUE-BELIEF-IS-CRITICAL?

I don’t know how I didn’t notice it at the time, because it’s really a hell of a switch if you think about it.

17 HappyWarrior  Jun 16, 2014 10:55:11am

re: #16 Testy Toad T

Remember back when the GOP was the absolute king of messaging and PR? What the hell happened? Where are Rove’s polling-based tea leaves now? Do they seriously think HURR DURR MOAR IRAQ is a winning electoral strategy? Have they flipped entirely, from amoral-do-whatever-it-takes-to-get-elected to elections-don’t-matter-TRUE-BELIEF-IS-CRITICAL?

I don’t know how I didn’t notice it at the time, because it’s really a hell of a switch if you think about it.

They got distracted because the sheriff is near.

18 theliel  Jun 16, 2014 10:55:57am

Seriously - It just shows that ‘serious’ media are in bed with ‘serious people’ for ‘serious ideas’ that are….”credible” because they come from ‘serious people’.

It’s so meta and recursive hipsters are jealous.

That being said - We’ll send 10k guys if the GOP Hawks approve a return to the Eisenhower tax rates for those making over $250k/year, return of glass-steagal, boosted minimum wage and removal of the CDC from studying gun violence.

Also all the congress people voting for it have to accept commissions in the US military and lead troops there.

19 GunstarGreen  Jun 16, 2014 10:56:14am

re: #16 Testy Toad T

Have they flipped entirely, from amoral-do-whatever-it-takes-to-get-elected to elections-don’t-matter-TRUE-BELIEF-IS-CRITICAL?

Yes, yes they have.

This is the direct result of them courting the crazies of the teabagger party, and allowing that “purity of ideology at any cost” mentality to take root and grow into a fetid tree, full-bloom with rotting fruit.

20 allegro  Jun 16, 2014 10:57:11am

re: #16 Testy Toad T

Remember back when the GOP was the absolute king of messaging and PR? What the hell happened? Where are Rove’s polling-based tea leaves now? Do they seriously think HURR DURR MOAR IRAQ is a winning electoral strategy? Have they flipped entirely, from amoral-do-whatever-it-takes-to-get-elected to elections-don’t-matter-TRUE-BELIEF-IS-CRITICAL?

I don’t know how I didn’t notice it at the time, because it’s really a hell of a switch if you think about it.

They released the Kraken cracked and now we’re all paying the price.

21 theliel  Jun 16, 2014 10:57:39am

re: #19 GunstarGreen

Yes, yes they have.

This is the direct result of them courting the crazies of the teabagger party, and allowing that “purity of ideology at any cost” mentality to take root and grow into a fetid tree, full-bloom with rotting fruit.

To be fair our bodily fluids are being corrupted. It’s just a known fact that the left can’t be bothered to embrace. It’s that ‘science’ they talk about whenever it’s on their side. ///

22 Feline Fearless Leader  Jun 16, 2014 10:58:04am

re: #16 Testy Toad T

Remember back when the GOP was the absolute king of messaging and PR? What the hell happened? Where are Rove’s polling-based tea leaves now? Do they seriously think HURR DURR MOAR IRAQ is a winning electoral strategy? Have they flipped entirely, from amoral-do-whatever-it-takes-to-get-elected to elections-don’t-matter-TRUE-BELIEF-IS-CRITICAL?

I don’t know how I didn’t notice it at the time, because it’s really a hell of a switch if you think about it.

Part of it is they gerrymandered themselves into a hole where they have to give much more attention to their allied nuts than the actual electoral power the nuts have on a state-wide or national level.

23 Killgore Trout  Jun 16, 2014 10:59:13am

cnn.com

The United States could end up cooperating with Iran to stop militant gains in Iraq, Secretary of State John Kerry suggested Monday in an interview with Yahoo!News.

But a Pentagon spokesman denied Monday that any military coordination with Iran is in the cards.
…
But in a signal the administration hasn’t yet reached a conclusion about what to do, two administration officials said the United States wasn’t interested in teaming up with Iran because the two share few mutual interests.

I’ll side with the two anonymous guys

24 Testy Toad T  Jun 16, 2014 11:01:43am

re: #19 GunstarGreen

Yes, yes they have.

This is the direct result of them courting the crazies of the teabagger party, and allowing that “purity of ideology at any cost” mentality to take root and grow into a fetid tree, full-bloom with rotting fruit.

I certainly recognize that, but I have to think that an Iraq re-invasion polls like dogshit even with the craziest of the Teahadis. Did they forget that only some of their policy positions have to be sacrosanct? Or do they fear that showing daylight on one issue means that other positions might be perceived as in danger?

I can’t imagine there is a single demographic in this country that represents more than 10% of the population that is actually in favor of a renewed ground war in Iraq.

FUCKING IRAQ, IT’D BE LIKE GOING BACK TO SAIGON IN 1975, I SWEAR I’M TAKING CRAZY PILLS

26 theliel  Jun 16, 2014 11:03:16am

re: #23 Killgore Trout

cnn.com

I’ll side with the two anonymous guys

“Nations have no permanent friends or allies, they only have permanent interests.” - Henry Temple; Lord Palmerston

For those who haven’t seen it Balloon Juice has had Adam Silverman writing backgrounders and analysis on the whole Iraq thing

Second one is here, first is here

27 Dr Lizardo  Jun 16, 2014 11:04:06am

Serious?

My advice to L. Paul Bremer is

Youtube Video

28 Eclectic Cyborg  Jun 16, 2014 11:05:32am

Sorry to go OT so early but I had to take my wife to the ER last night (she’s ok, thank goodness).

While we were in the waiting room the TV was on CNN who was airing a 20th Anniversary O.J. Simpson special focusing mainly on the infamous car chase.

I was only 12 years old when that went down and have only vague memories of watching it on TV.

One thing I do remember though, is watching the verdict. I got to go to a brand spanking new middle school for grade 8 which was quite high tech for its time. It was in fact, the first school I ever attended that actually had a computer lab.

One thing it also had was a TV in every classroom with an active cable connection. The day the verdict was to be handed down, myself and a couple of other students begged our teacher to let us watch it in the room. She actually let us do this and I still remember watching the verdict live and feeling much as I do now, in the sense that I am not surprised he was acquitted but I still think he did it.

29 GunstarGreen  Jun 16, 2014 11:06:49am

re: #24 Testy Toad T

I certainly recognize that, but I have to think that an Iraq re-invasion polls like dogshit even with the craziest of the Teahadis. Did they forget that only some of their policy positions have to be sacrosanct? Or do they fear that showing daylight on one issue means that other positions might be perceived as in danger?

I can’t imagine there is a single demographic in this country that represents more than 10% of the population that is actually in favor of a renewed ground war in Iraq.

FUCKING IRAQ, IT’D BE LIKE GOING BACK TO SAIGON IN 1975, I SWEAR I’M TAKING CRAZY PILLS

Do not underestimate the level of crazed, insane fanatcism of the teahadis. They are called The American Taliban for a reason. There can be no compromise. They cannot give ground on any issue for fear that it opens all issues to scrutiny. For them, politics and religion are one and the same. They complain about “God being taken out of the country” because for them, God is country. They don’t mind going to war in Iraq again because for them it is a holy war.

I’m not kidding when I say that these people are incredibly dangerous people that have done incalculable harm to this country.

30 Ace-o-aces  Jun 16, 2014 11:07:15am

The Bush administration handed Obama a turd sandwich, and now they complain because he didn’t magically turn it into a juicy steak dinner.

31 Eclectic Cyborg  Jun 16, 2014 11:07:21am

re: #25 Pie-onist Overlord

Wingnuts freaking out about this.

Why? Do they think the Border Patrol should have just shot the four cops instead?

32 theliel  Jun 16, 2014 11:07:28am

re: #28 Eclectic Cyborg

Sorry to go OT so early but I had to take my wife to the ER last night (she’s ok, thank goodness).

While we were in the waiting room the TV was on CNN who was airing a 20th Anniversary O.J. Simpson special focusing mainly on the infamous car chase.

I was only 12 years old when that went down and have only vague memories of watching it on TV.

One thing I do remember though, is watching the verdict. I got to go to a brand spanking new middle school for grade 8 which was quite high tech for its time. It was in fact, the first school I ever attended that actually had a computer lab.

One thing it also had was a TV in every classroom with an active cable connection. The day the verdict was to be handed down, myself and a couple of other students begged our teacher to let us watch it in the room. She actually let us do this and I still remember watching the verdict live and feeling much as I do now, in the sense that I am not surprised he was acquitted but I still think he did it.

I was in Law & Government at the time. We were in a school about 2 blocks from the courthouse so traditionally you’d go watch trials.
Took about an afternoon.

Due to OJ we “got” to watch trails for days…..mind numbing days.

33 Killgore Trout  Jun 16, 2014 11:07:51am

re: #26 theliel

“Nations have no permanent friends or allies, they only have permanent interests.” - Henry Temple; Lord Palmerston

For those who haven’t seen it Balloon Juice has had Adam Silverman writing backgrounders and analysis on the whole Iraq thing

Second one is here, first is here

Thanks, those are pretty good. I haven’t looked at Balloon Juice in a very long time.

34 Pie-onist Overlord  Jun 16, 2014 11:07:54am

re: #31 Eclectic Cyborg

Why? Do they think the Border Patrol should have just shot the four cops instead?

HURR HURR WHY CAN’T THEY TRADE THEM 4 ARE HERO MARINE!!!!!!

35 aagcobb  Jun 16, 2014 11:08:18am

Like a lot of people, the Bush Administration had me fooled in 2003. As Bush said, fool me once shame on you, don’t get fooled again.

36 theliel  Jun 16, 2014 11:08:28am

re: #31 Eclectic Cyborg

Why? Do they think the Border Patrol should have just shot the four cops instead?

Not just shot but counter invaded because War Is Awesome (for those not fighting).

37 Eclectic Cyborg  Jun 16, 2014 11:08:51am

Re: Iraq

I don’t know what’s worse, the conservative morons who think we should go BACK to Iraq or that they have the audacity to blame any of this on Obama.

38 Feline Fearless Leader  Jun 16, 2014 11:09:28am

re: #36 theliel

Not just shot but counter invaded because War Is Awesome (for those not fighting).

If we’re not careful a company of the Mexican Army might reoccupy the Alamo!
/// ;P

39 Kragar  Jun 16, 2014 11:10:08am

re: #38 Feline Fearless Leader

If we’re not careful a company of the Mexican Army might reoccupy the Alamo!
/// ;P

They can have it.

40 HappyWarrior  Jun 16, 2014 11:10:12am

re: #30 Ace-o-aces

The Bush administration handed Obama a turd sandwich, and now they complain because he didn’t magically turn it into a juicy steak dinner.

I think that sums up Iraq and much of Bush’s legacy in a nutshell.

41 Charles Johnson  Jun 16, 2014 11:10:44am
42 theliel  Jun 16, 2014 11:11:02am

re: #33 Killgore Trout

Thanks, those are pretty good. I haven’t looked at Balloon Juice in a very long time.

Vox has also been doing some Yeoman’s work looking at this particular mess.

So far it looks like as long as ISIS/ISIL continues to be chumps when faced with actual military everything is coming up Kurd.

43 HappyWarrior  Jun 16, 2014 11:11:10am

re: #37 Eclectic Cyborg

Re: Iraq

I don’t know what’s worse, the conservative morons who think we should go BACK to Iraq or that they have the audacity to blame any of this on Obama.

I find the former worse since it involves possible people dying. The latter is certainly bad too but it’s more arrogant hypocrisy than it is anything.

44 HappyWarrior  Jun 16, 2014 11:11:42am

re: #41 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Exactly. These guys got listened to last time and they were wrong. Why on earth should we give them any BoD now.

46 Eclectic Cyborg  Jun 16, 2014 11:12:50am

I still remember the uproar from a sizable contingent of Canadians when my country decided to - GASP! - NOT go to Iraq!

Some of them were actually saying we were no better than like, Iran or something, because god forbid Canada doesn’t blindly follow the U.S. into any military conflict it gets into.

IMO, it was one of the best foreign policy moves the Canadian government ever made.

47 Feline Fearless Leader  Jun 16, 2014 11:13:01am

re: #44 HappyWarrior

Exactly. These guys got listened to last time and they were wrong. Why on earth should we give them any BoD now.

Because fear, outrage, and the ni-clang in the White House.
////

48 Romantic Heretic  Jun 16, 2014 11:13:15am

re: #16 Testy Toad T

Remember back when the GOP was the absolute king of messaging and PR? What the hell happened? Where are Rove’s polling-based tea leaves now? Do they seriously think HURR DURR MOAR IRAQ is a winning electoral strategy? Have they flipped entirely, from amoral-do-whatever-it-takes-to-get-elected to elections-don’t-matter-TRUE-BELIEF-IS-CRITICAL?

I don’t know how I didn’t notice it at the time, because it’s really a hell of a switch if you think about it.

The difference is that back then most Americans were scared out of their ever-loving minds. People from ‘Somewhere Else’ had killed Americans. Most Americans didn’t know anything about the people that hit the towers and were willing to believe anything if it made them feel safer.

Now most people realize that the teahdis and their fellow travellers are a much bigger danger to America, and they have returned to their ‘don’t know nuthin’ about anywhere else’ stance. So the Rove tactic of exploiting people’s fear of ‘The Other’ isn’t nearly as effective as it was.

They’re only talking to the True Believers now because those are the only people who will listen.

49 Killgore Trout  Jun 16, 2014 11:13:18am

Iraq Government Loses Control of Another Key City

Forces Led by a U.S.-Trained Iraqi Military Commander Give Way to Islamist Fighters

Iraqi government forces led by a U.S.-trained commander lost control of another key northern Iraqi city to Sunni extremists on Monday, triggering warnings from neighboring Turkey that the escalating violence risked opening another front in sectarian fighting.

50 Eclectic Cyborg  Jun 16, 2014 11:13:33am

re: #30 Ace-o-aces

The Bush administration handed Obama a turd sandwich, and now they complain because he didn’t magically turn it into a juicy steak dinner.

They handed America a turd sandwich, actually.

51 HappyWarrior  Jun 16, 2014 11:14:40am

re: #46 Eclectic Cyborg

I still remember the uproar from a sizable contingent of Canadians when my country decided to - GASP! - NOT go to Iraq!

Some of them were actually saying we were no better than like, Iran or something, because god forbid Canada doesn’t blindly follow the U.S. into any military conflict it gets into.

IMO, it was one of the best foreign policy moves the Canadian government ever made.

Some times the best move is the move you don’t make.

52 Eclectic Cyborg  Jun 16, 2014 11:15:07am

I firmly believe its only a matter of time before ISIS/ISIL takes Baghdad.

53 HappyWarrior  Jun 16, 2014 11:15:55am

re: #47 Feline Fearless Leader

Because fear, outrage, and the ni-clang in the White House.
////

Well yeah.

54 Archangelus  Jun 16, 2014 11:16:03am

Sure, Mr. Bremer, no problem, let’s go in - only so long as you, Limbaugh, McCain, Palin, Rove, Cheney, Dubya, and every loudmouth chickenhawk gutless spineless coward on Fox News leads the charge and commands from the battlefields.

Till that happens, to quote our old and decrepit VP from way back then: “Go F**k yourself!”

55 HappyWarrior  Jun 16, 2014 11:17:10am

So who’s up for giving the GOP another shot at the executive branch!

56 blueraven  Jun 16, 2014 11:18:27am

Here is a video of Bremer advocating his idiotic policy on Morning Joe this morning, being challenged by Mark Halperin

Youtube Video

57 Backwoods_Sleuth  Jun 16, 2014 11:19:59am

re: #25 Pie-onist Overlord

Wingnuts freaking out about this.

From the link:

It is not uncommon for Mexican law enforcement authorities to be briefly detained by U.S. Border Patrol agents.

o’rilly??? O_o

58 HappyWarrior  Jun 16, 2014 11:20:36am

re: #57 Backwoods_Sleuth

From the link:

o’rilly??? O_o

Aren’t these the same people just furious that an American national got arrested for breaking Mexican law?

59 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jun 16, 2014 11:21:24am

re: #54 Archangelus

Sure, Mr. Bremer, no problem, let’s go in - only so long as you, Limbaugh, McCain, Palin, Rove, Cheney, Dubya, and every loudmouth chickenhawk gutless spineless coward on Fox News leads the charge and commands from the battlefields.

Till that happens, to quote our old and decrepit VP from way back then: “Go F**k yourself!”

Round them up, give them guns (they love guns, don’t they) and send them to Iraq, to solve the problem they caused in the first place.

60 3eff Jeff  Jun 16, 2014 11:21:49am

re: #54 Archangelus

I think there’s a strong case to give Bremer a dispensation on leading that charge. He went last time. With $12 billion in cash on pallets. Which disappeared. I wouldn’t want him in charge of anything, let alone soldier’s lives…

61 jaunte  Jun 16, 2014 11:22:59am

re: #56 blueraven

Bremer: “I’m not proposing to prop up any government. We need a new government.”

It’s as simple-minded as that.

62 Single-handed sailor  Jun 16, 2014 11:23:48am

re: #61 jaunte

Bremer: “I’m not proposing to prop up any government. We need a new government.”

It’s as simple-minded as that.

Ah, the old regime change trick.

63 jaunte  Jun 16, 2014 11:24:35am

re: #62 Single-handed sailor

They should have asked him who he had in mind for oh, the top 20 posts in the new Iraqi government.

64 Killgore Trout  Jun 16, 2014 11:24:45am

re: #52 Eclectic Cyborg

I firmly believe its only a matter of time before ISIS/ISIL takes Baghdad.

I don’t know if they have the brute force for that. So far the areas they’ve taken have been where they have some popular support. They might be able to take Bagdahd but I don;t think they have the man power to hold an area without support from the population.

65 Dr. Matt  Jun 16, 2014 11:24:51am

re: #25 Pie-onist Overlord

Wingnuts freaking out about this.

Why? They don’t want the US border patrol to do their job and arrest people who are illegally on US soil? Do they believe Mexican police are above the law?

66 Romantic Heretic  Jun 16, 2014 11:25:22am

re: #46 Eclectic Cyborg

I still remember the uproar from a sizable contingent of Canadians when my country decided to - GASP! - NOT go to Iraq!

Some of them were actually saying we were no better than like, Iran or something, because god forbid Canada doesn’t blindly follow the U.S. into any military conflict it gets into.

IMO, it was one of the best foreign policy moves the Canadian government ever made.

I wasn’t a big fan of Jean Chretien but on this I agree with you.

The thing the chicken hawks up here didn’t realize, or did and thought it was an awesome idea, was that the invasion of Iraq was a crime. Unprovoked invasion of another sovereign state is against international law.

It could have returned the world to the 19th and early 20th Centuries where nations could only guarantee their security through complex alliances. Until the day an Archduke gets assassinated in Serbia triggering all those alliances at once, with hideous results.

Only people stunningly ignorant or batshit insane were in favour of that.

67 Timothy Watson  Jun 16, 2014 11:25:27am

re: #61 jaunte

Bartlet: “Apparently, when you’re running for the Presidency, there’s no need for nuance.”
Leo: “It is a French word.”
(The West Wing, “Wake Up Call”)

68 iossarian  Jun 16, 2014 11:26:45am

re: #66 Romantic Heretic

I wasn’t a big fan of Jean Chretien but on this I agree with you.

The thing the chicken hawks up here didn’t realize, or did and thought it was an awesome idea, was that the invasion of Iraq was a crime. Unprovoked invasion of another sovereign state is against international law.

It could have returned the world to the 19th and early 20th Centuries where nations could only guarantee their security through complex alliances. Until the day an Archduke gets assassinated in Serbia triggering all those alliances at once, with hideous results.

Only people stunningly ignorant or batshit insane were in favour of that.

You forget the armies of US and UK lawyers desperately inventing legal precedent to justify the invasion.

69 ObserverArt  Jun 16, 2014 11:27:01am

I posted this in the last thread so here it is again for any his fans that heard news reports today and won’t make it to the older thread.
————
I noticed a few LGF members follow the former Formula 1 race driver Michael Schumacher’s ski accident and resultant brain injury story. There were reports on major news outlets this morning saying he is out of the induced coma and has been released from the hospital. For all of his fans it seemed like good news.

It might not be.

Here is a link to a Formula 1 doctor that worked with the F1 safety crews. He has been giving realistic assessments to the whole medical side of things to help keep speculation down as to where Michael stands in all of this recovery. He is not painting a good picture. Basically he is saying that being out of a coma only means a patients eyes are open and he could be in a persistent vegetative state.

The fact the family is being very quiet and not releasing much info kind of makes me feel he may be correct. Sigh.

Good news?

70 Pie-onist Overlord  Jun 16, 2014 11:28:48am

re: #65 Dr. Matt

Why? They don’t want the US border patrol to do their job and arrest people who are illegally on US soil? Do they believe Mexican police are above the law?

No they’re all HURR HURR WHY’D THEY LET THEM GO!!!!! WHY DIDN’T THEY TRADE THEM FOR ARE HERO MARINE!!!!!!

71 jaunte  Jun 16, 2014 11:29:06am

Bremer received a Presidential Medal of Freedom for his work in Iraq.

72 Backwoods_Sleuth  Jun 16, 2014 11:29:23am

re: #58 HappyWarrior

Aren’t these the same people just furious that an American national got arrested for breaking Mexican law?

I was thinking that, but also a line from the movie Broken Arrow (paraphrasing from memory): “I don’t know what’s scarier, losing nuclear weapons or that it happens so often there’s actually a term for it..”

73 jaunte  Jun 16, 2014 11:29:28am

Heckuva job.

74 Killgore Trout  Jun 16, 2014 11:30:20am

Israel concerned about any US-Iran cooperation in Iraq

While deploring the “ungodly horror” of the bloodshed in Iraq, Steinitz said Iran should not be helped to extend its sway in Iran where fellow Shi’ite Muslims form the majority.

That, he said would give Tehran an arc of control running through Syria, where the Iranians back embattled President Bashar al-Assad, and on to Lebanon, where they have powerful allies in the Hezbollah militia.

“And we would especially not want for a situation to be created where, because both the United States and Iran support the government of (Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri) al-Maliki, it softens the American positions on the issue which is most critical for the peace of the world, which is the Iranian nuclear issue,” Steinitz said in an interview.

75 Charles Johnson  Jun 16, 2014 11:30:43am
76 HappyWarrior  Jun 16, 2014 11:31:06am

re: #71 jaunte

Bremer received a Presidential Medal of Freedom for his work in Iraq.

STOP BLAMING BUSH. IRAQ WOULDN’T HAVE HAPPENED IF BILL AYERS HADN’t TOLD OBAMA TO OPPOSE IT.

77 Bulworth  Jun 16, 2014 11:31:13am

Headline on cnn.com:

Poll:Clinton tops Obama on every issue

This could be bad if Obama runs for a 3rd term.

78 Backwoods_Sleuth  Jun 16, 2014 11:31:48am

re: #77 Bulworth

Headline on cnn.com:

This could be bad if Obama runs for a 3rd term.

maybe. we’ll have to wait and see…
/

79 Archangelus  Jun 16, 2014 11:31:52am

re: #71 jaunte

Bremer received a Presidential Medal of Freedom for his work in Iraq.

Should we be holding our breaths for when he is forced to return it, or does so willingly, for failing in such a clearly spectacular manner? I think not…

80 HappyWarrior  Jun 16, 2014 11:32:05am

re: #77 Bulworth

Headline on cnn.com:

This could be bad if Obama runs for a 3rd term.

Yeah I’d like to see how she does compared with people that she you know may be running against.

81 Killgore Trout  Jun 16, 2014 11:32:15am

Iranian Intervention in Iraq Would Be Risky

If Iran comes to the assistance of the Shi’ite-dominated Iraqi government it could fan further sectarian violence

82 Bulworth  Jun 16, 2014 11:32:16am

re:
#70

Who gave the Release Order? Who ordered the Stand Down??!?!?!

83 NJDhockeyfan  Jun 16, 2014 11:32:29am

This could be a problem…

84 Romantic Heretic  Jun 16, 2014 11:33:38am

re: #68 iossarian

You forget the armies of US and UK lawyers desperately inventing legal precedent to justify the invasion.

So far as I know, on the international front anyway, none of it worked. The UN Security Council never gave the go ahead for the invasion. That is the only way an act of aggression is allowed. Like when Kuwait was liberated.

People forget that the senior Bush didn’t conquer Iraq is because that act was outside of the UN resolution in support of the war. The combined forces were charged with kicking Iraq out of Kuwait and nothing more.

They also forget that when the senior Bush talked about ‘a new world order’ that he wasn’t speaking about a Pax Americana. He was trying to set the precedent to allow the UN to play a more serious role in international affairs, to make sure that after the fall of the Soviet Bloc that the world remained at peace.

Like Chretien, I wasn’t fond of Bush Sr., but on this he was very correct.

85 Archangelus  Jun 16, 2014 11:33:43am

re: #77 Bulworth

Headline on cnn.com:

This could be bad if Obama runs for a 3rd term.

You know, I wish he or his people would toy around and float such a consideration to the press as a joke; you just know the other side would take it seriously no matter how unrealistic and explode with the force of a supernova at the notion.
Which would be fun to watch…

86 Testy Toad T  Jun 16, 2014 11:34:02am

re: #83 NJDhockeyfan

This could be a problem…

Why on God’s green Earth did we ever give the Iraqis anything approximating actual modern gear, at least before they demonstrated any propensity for actually managing to exist as a stable nation?

Jesus H. Christ on a pogo stick.

87 Backwoods_Sleuth  Jun 16, 2014 11:38:24am

Love the poster in the picture.

88 NJDhockeyfan  Jun 16, 2014 11:38:29am
89 ObserverArt  Jun 16, 2014 11:40:42am

re: #15 HappyWarrior

I mean you got guys like Cheney who had the arrogance to claim that he had other priorities other than serving in Vietnam. I get that he was a father with children but so were some of the other men. Mitt Romney claims he would have loved to been there. Nothing was stopping him. There were plenty of young LDS men that served with my grandfather in Korea. It’s the arrogance. They think that this is so important but yet they don’t want to sacrifice themselves or their families. Real telling that none of Coward Mitt’s sons have never come close to serving and that Mitt equated their helping his campaign to military service.

Mitts a maker and therefore he and the conservative types think that exonerates him from having to do anything more for society. It is his get out of the military free card. Others like Cheney probably think because they served in government, they too did their bit for society.

So that leaves the takers. The takers need to be made into makers, so the makerhawks decide to send a few off to ‘make’ war and they too can do their part for society.

It’s all very simple in the mind of a neocon.

/

90 NJDhockeyfan  Jun 16, 2014 11:42:20am
91 Targetpractice  Jun 16, 2014 11:43:32am

re: #88 NJDhockeyfan

[Embedded content]

Well, guess McCain got his wish, we armed the Syrian rebels.

92 makeitstop  Jun 16, 2014 11:44:10am

Seen on Facebook…

Oy vey.

93 kirkspencer  Jun 16, 2014 11:44:17am

re: #80 HappyWarrior

Yeah I’d like to see how she does compared with people that she you know may be running against.

As of the last poll I saw (about a month ago) she leads. She leads everyone: Democratic or Republican, by margins large enough that the phrase “de facto incumbent” comes to mind.

The incumbent effect is why so many Democrats will have difficulty getting traction against her. It is not impossible, it’s just difficult. Because the first hurdle is name recognition expect a LOT of noise after November this year. Anybody who hasn’t at least placed a marker by March is pretty much a non-issue. And of course once they make name recognition they have to out-campaign her.

It is worth reminding everyone that she did very well in 2008; Obama was just better.

In contrast the Republicans suffer from the problem of base or general. The more popular they are with the base the worse they stand in the general population’s eye. Now this is a good part of why it was Romney who won last year, and it’s worth keeping in mind for 2016 as well. It’s why Christie (who like Romney pretends to be moderate) can’t be written off. Christie, on the other hand, exemplifies the Republican problem - in the process of getting the nomination their cover will get stripped. And the less extreme Republican candidates with enough name recognition to be considered right now have issues. Personalities and track records and other things that when brought up cause people to wince and change the subject.

2016’s presidency is not a Democratic lock, much less a Clinton lock. But I wouldn’t put anything I couldn’t afford to lose against that bet..

94 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce  Jun 16, 2014 11:44:23am

re: #87 Backwoods_Sleuth

I’ve heard that, In the Navy, you can sail the seven seas and set your mind at ease.

95 Killgore Trout  Jun 16, 2014 11:44:26am

re: #90 NJDhockeyfan

[Embedded content]

There’s some very confused messaging. I’m very much hoping it doesn’t happen.

96 Pie-onist Overlord  Jun 16, 2014 11:48:23am

re: #94 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce

I’ve heard that, In the Navy, you can sail the seven seas and set your mind at ease.

When my Dad signed up in ‘42 it was “Join the Navy And Take A Shower Every Day”

97 Dr Lizardo  Jun 16, 2014 11:48:47am

re: #92 makeitstop

Seen on Facebook…

Oy vey.

Europeans laugh at us Americans over our lack of geographical knowledge. One of my students once had me take a geography test of Europe. I only missed Lichtenstein.

He was amazed.

98 Killgore Trout  Jun 16, 2014 11:49:20am

White House says it does not want military coordination with Iran

A White House official said on Monday that there could be talks with Iran on the sidelines of meetings on Tehran’s nuclear program about the mounting crisis in Iraq, but the United States is not interested in any military coordination with Tehran.

“Any of those conversations that may occur on the margins are entirely separate from the conversations about Iran’s nuclear program,” White House spokesman Josh Earnest told reporters travelling with President Barack Obama.

“Any conversations with the Iranian regime will not include military coordination,” Earnest said. “We’re not interested in any effort to coordinate military activities with Iran.”

Not sure if this negates Kerry’s statements this morning about being open to all possibilities.

99 Backwoods_Sleuth  Jun 16, 2014 11:50:11am

re: #94 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce

I’ve heard that, In the Navy, you can sail the seven seas and set your mind at ease.

100 Killgore Trout  Jun 16, 2014 11:50:25am
“We’re not interested in any effort to coordinate military activities with Iran.”

Ok, I think that negates Kerry’s statements.

101 Feline Fearless Leader  Jun 16, 2014 11:52:09am

re: #84 Romantic Heretic

So far as I know, on the international front anyway, none of it worked. The UN Security Council never gave the go ahead for the invasion. That is the only way an act of aggression is allowed. Like when Kuwait was liberated.

People forget that the senior Bush didn’t conquer Iraq is because that act was outside of the UN resolution in support of the war. The combined forces were charged with kicking Iraq out of Kuwait and nothing more.

They also forget that when the senior Bush talked about ‘a new world order’ that he wasn’t speaking about a Pax Americana. He was trying to set the precedent to allow the UN to play a more serious role in international affairs, to make sure that after the fall of the Soviet Bloc that the world remained at peace.

Like Chretien, I wasn’t fond of Bush Sr., but on this he was very correct.

Heck, even Cheney back then was willing to admit that you could take Baghdad, but would probably not know what to do with it beyond that point.

102 3eff Jeff  Jun 16, 2014 11:54:12am

re: #96 Pie-onist Overlord

When my Dad signed up in ‘42 it was “Join the Navy And Take A Shower Every Day”

That’s why my Grandpa enlisted with the Navy before he could get drafted in WWII. Your bed travels with you.

103 freetoken  Jun 16, 2014 11:54:25am

re: #92 makeitstop

The flight from Hong Kong to Perth must be a doozy.

104 Pie-onist Overlord  Jun 16, 2014 11:55:30am

What is wrong with “consequence-free sex”?
And these are the people who freaked out when Obama said he didn’t want his daughters to be “punished by a pregnancy”

105 HappyWarrior  Jun 16, 2014 11:56:46am

re: #104 Pie-onist Overlord

What is wrong with “consequence-free sex”?
And these are the people who freaked out when Obama said he didn’t want his daughters to be “punished by a pregnancy”

[Embedded content]

Well this is the mentality that not only finds fault with merely Roe but also Eisenstadt and Griswold. How dare couples have sex for any other reason but to create.

106 Feline Fearless Leader  Jun 16, 2014 11:57:10am

re: #96 Pie-onist Overlord

When my Dad signed up in ‘42 it was “Join the Navy And Take A Shower Every Day”

Shower, yes. Privacy? No.

107 Targetpractice  Jun 16, 2014 11:59:36am

re: #104 Pie-onist Overlord

What is wrong with “consequence-free sex”?
And these are the people who freaked out when Obama said he didn’t want his daughters to be “punished by a pregnancy”

[Embedded content]

A man can support or oppose abortion all he likes, but at the end of the day, the decision rests with the woman who has to deal with nine months of pregnancy. He’s free to make his case to her, but if she decides to get an abortion, then that’s the final word.

108 Backwoods_Sleuth  Jun 16, 2014 12:00:11pm

There was a #UniteBlue twitter meme that I found offensive and after some thought tweeted the person about it.
Here’s the difference between RWNJ tweeters and others:

109 Feline Fearless Leader  Jun 16, 2014 12:00:54pm

2-round exhibition bout last night between the cats.

Opening encounter (and only fairly steady photo)

Leading with a right

Left counter

Weave and bob

Pretty hazy due to poor light conditions and using an iPhone.

110 HappyWarrior  Jun 16, 2014 12:00:55pm

re: #107 Targetpractice

A man can support or oppose abortion all he likes, but at the end of the day, the decision rests with the woman who has to deal with nine months of pregnancy. He’s free to make his case to her, but if she decides to get an abortion, then that’s the final word.

Exactly and these assholes act like a pregnancy is some easy thing for women to deal with. If men could get pregnant, wingnut men would be demanding it be covered in health insurance plans but because right wingers never attempt to empathize with anyone who isn’t a wealthy straight male Christian, there ya go.

111 EmmaAnne  Jun 16, 2014 12:03:58pm

re: #91 Targetpractice

Well, guess McCain got his wish, we armed the Syrian rebels.

I kind of want us to go Tony Stark on their asses, and blow up any military equipment of ours that is being used by terrorist whackos. No troops - blast them from above.

112 klys  Jun 16, 2014 12:04:29pm

re: #110 HappyWarrior

Exactly and these assholes act like a pregnancy is some easy thing for women to deal with. If men could get pregnant, wingnut men would be demanding it be covered in health insurance plans but because right wingers never attempt to empathize with anyone who isn’t a wealthy straight male Christian, there ya go.

Or has no potential serious health consequences to the woman. Or is even comfortable.

Most of my friends who have been pregnant were ready to not be pregnant anymore by about month 8.

113 lawhawk  Jun 16, 2014 12:05:49pm

re: #111 EmmaAnne

I kind of want us to go Tony Stark on their asses, and blow up any military equipment of ours that is being used by terrorist whackos. No troops - blast them from above.

Tony Stark has only one place to be, and that’s on the Iron Throne. /rightful heir to the throne…

114 CuriousLurker  Jun 16, 2014 12:06:05pm

re: #98 Killgore Trout

White House says it does not want military coordination with Iran

Not sure if this negates Kerry’s statements this morning about being open to all possibilities.

Here, I got this especially for you:

Irish worry stone

115 Feline Fearless Leader  Jun 16, 2014 12:06:07pm

re: #112 klys

Or has no potential serious health consequences to the woman. Or is even comfortable.

Most of my friends who have been pregnant are ready to not be pregnant anymore by about month 8.

My SIL said that her brain melted about 6-7 months in. Short-term memory issues and just acted sort of loopy. I witnessed a few cases of it first hand.

116 HappyWarrior  Jun 16, 2014 12:06:17pm

re: #112 klys

Or has no potential serious health consequences to the woman. Or is even comfortable.

Most of my friends who have been pregnant are ready to not be pregnant anymore by about month 8.

Precisely and there’s no empathy there. I still remember some of the anti-choicers who I knew growing up saying that the woman should just give up the baby for adoption as if it’s that simple.

117 HappyWarrior  Jun 16, 2014 12:07:58pm

re: #115 Feline Fearless Leader

My SIL said that her brain melted about 6-7 months in. Short-term memory issues and just acted sort of loopy. I witnessed a few cases of it first hand.

My SiL and that’s her new born in my avatar is seriously considering a procedure that won’t allow her to get pregnant for five years. It’s a lot of work and her and my brother deeply love their daughter obviously but a pregnancy and then taking care of a child is a lot of committment. These assholes seem to think that sex should be only for pro-creation. That’s just not realistic thinking.

118 Rightwingconspirator  Jun 16, 2014 12:09:02pm

re: #83 NJDhockeyfan

This could be a problem…

[Embedded content]

Maybe not.
Who are they gonna call for tech support? Edward Snowden?
//

119 ObserverArt  Jun 16, 2014 12:09:16pm

re: #93 kirkspencer

As of the last poll I saw (about a month ago) she leads. She leads everyone: Democratic or Republican, by margins large enough that the phrase “de facto incumbent” comes to mind.

The incumbent effect is why so many Democrats will have difficulty getting traction against her. It is not impossible, it’s just difficult. Because the first hurdle is name recognition expect a LOT of noise after November this year. Anybody who hasn’t at least placed a marker by March is pretty much a non-issue. And of course once they make name recognition they have to out-campaign her.

It is worth reminding everyone that she did very well in 2008; Obama was just better.

In contrast the Republicans suffer from the problem of base or general. The more popular they are with the base the worse they stand in the general population’s eye. Now this is a good part of why it was Romney who won last year, and it’s worth keeping in mind for 2016 as well. It’s why Christie (who like Romney pretends to be moderate) can’t be written off. Christie, on the other hand, exemplifies the Republican problem - in the process of getting the nomination their cover will get stripped. And the less extreme Republican candidates with enough name recognition to be considered right now have issues. Personalities and track records and other things that when brought up cause people to wince and change the subject.

2016’s presidency is not a Democratic lock, much less a Clinton lock. But I wouldn’t put anything I couldn’t afford to lose against that bet..

Right now any polling for the 2016 elections are suspect in my mind. It’s way too early and a lot of the pluses to Hillary may be based on hopefulness brought on by the malaise of the do-nothing congress years of 2010 on. I also think Obama’s low rating come from the flip side of the same. Since congress doesn’t do anything by bitch about Obama, the lack of progress and the disappointment in congress makes people disappointed in everything. Obama gets included, because face it, most Americans don’t have a clue how our government works. So, blame it all on the top guy, the president.

Hillary presents some positives, some of it might be based on the name and recognition that Big Bill ran the country and times were fairly good compared to these past few years.

I’ll start worrying about the polls about May of 2016. By that time who knows how the GOP slime machine and the media paint her right or wrong.

120 Olsonist  Jun 16, 2014 12:14:28pm

I think the decision not to recall Saddam’s army, from a political point of view, is the single most important, correct decision that we made in the 14 months we were there.

Link

Moron.

121 RadicalModerate  Jun 16, 2014 12:15:11pm

Rick “Jim Crow was right” Perry speaks again.

Rick Perry asked about comment comparing homosexuality to alcoholics

“I don’t necessarily condone that lifestyle. I don’t condemn it, either. We’re all children of God. And the fact is that people will decide where they want to live if Washington will respect the Tenth Amendment,” Perry said during the interview.

Perry also said Washington shouldn’t be given full ability to decide on such issues because people will choose how they want to live and under what rules and regulations.

Perry last week said he didn’t know if “reparative therapy” - a process meant to counsel people to change their sexual orientation - could be successful. But on Monday, he said he will allow psychologists and doctors to make the conclusion.

122 Bulworth  Jun 16, 2014 12:15:34pm

re:
#104

Some Men Love Abortion, it Allows Sex Without Consequences

Not sure who the audience is supposed to be for this cheery chestnut. Men who love abortion? People who want to have sex?

123 HappyWarrior  Jun 16, 2014 12:17:39pm

re: #121 RadicalModerate

Rick “Jim Crow was right” Perry speaks again.

Rick Perry asked about comment comparing homosexuality to alcoholics

There’s also the 9th and 14th amendment too but apparently you don’t respect those two either but I get it Rick, you think that government involvement in improving people’s health care is bad, bad, bad, but it’s perfectly okay for the government to tell a gay couple that they can’t get married because your “your religious beliefs” are “violated” by that even though a happy gay couple having their love blessed and formalized has no effect on your pathetic ass.

124 Pie-onist Overlord  Jun 16, 2014 12:19:40pm

re: #108 Backwoods_Sleuth

There was a #UniteBlue twitter meme that I found offensive and after some thought tweeted the person about it.
Here’s the difference between RWNJ tweeters and others:

[Embedded content]

#UniteBlue is definitely more polite when they are corrected about Fake Quotes.

But I block the ones who retweet shit from ElectronicIntifada. Even if we were following each other.

125 Rocky-in-Connecticut  Jun 16, 2014 1:35:42pm

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

Not this time, Neo-Cons. Over my dead body will I ever agree to send troops in. I have no longer voted anything but Democrat for the last 12 years. Republicans are making it easy to keep this going.

126 GlutenFreeJesus  Jun 16, 2014 1:39:03pm

Does Bremer have a Twitter account?

127 bluebonnetbunny  Jun 16, 2014 3:58:18pm

That would be the same L. Paul Bremer who was the Managing Director of Kissinger and Associates. Just saying…


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