Bill Moyers With Andrew Bacevich on the Travesty of “Preventive” War

War is an evil that should command our respect
Opinion • Views: 26,957

Vimeo

As we’re being drawn yet again into the mess created by the Bush administration’s disastrous war of choice in Iraq, here are some interesting and very pertinent comments from Bill Moyers and Andrew Bacevich on the immoral nature of “preventive” war.

BILL MOYERS: What is it about how we go to war? We poured blood and treasure into Vietnam and Iraq and wound up with exactly the opposite consequences than we wanted. And we keep repeating, hearing the same arguments and claims that we should do it again.

ANDREW BACEVICH: Well, war itself is evil. But war is an evil that should command our respect. War is something that we should not take lightly, that we should not discuss frivolously. And I think that that’s one of the great failings of our foreign policy establishment, that our foreign policy establishment does not take war seriously.

It assumes that the creation of precision guided weapons makes war manageable, removes from war the element of risk and chance that are always inherent in warfare. So these are people who, quite frankly, most of them don’t know much about war. And therefore who discuss war in frivolous ways.

BILL MOYERS: And yet, there’s this still almost religious belief in force as the savior.

ANDREW BACEVICH: Well, I think your use of religious terms is very appropriate here. Because there is a theological — quasi theological dimension to their thinking related, again, to this notion that we are called. We are chosen. We are the instrument of providence. Summoned to transform the world, and therefore empowered to use force in ways not permitted to any others. I mean, the ultimate travesty of the immediate period after 9/11 was the Bush administration’s embrace of preventive war that became then the rationale for invading Iraq in 2003. But it was a general claim — a general claim that the United States was empowered to use force preventively.

This is the kind of person who should be on the Sunday talk shows instead of McCain and Cheney and those windbags.

UPDATE at 6/19/14 6:19:22 pm by Charles Johnson

Another clip from this interview:

Vimeo

BACEVICH: We have been engaged in the Islamic world at least since 1980, in a military project based on the assumption that the adroit use of American hard power can somehow pacify or fix this part of the world. We can now examine more than three decades of this effort.

Let’s look at what U.S. military intervention in Iraq has achieved, in Afghanistan has achieved, in Somalia has achieved, in Lebanon has achieved, in Libya has achieved. I mean, ask ourselves the very simple question. Is the region becoming more stable? Is it becoming more democratic?

Are we alleviating, reducing the prevalence of anti-Americanism? I mean, if the answer is yes, then let’s keep trying. But if the answer to those questions is no, then maybe it’s time for us to recognize that this larger military project is failing and is not going to succeed simply by trying harder.

The events that are unfolding in Iraq at this very moment promote a debate within Washington revolving around the question, “What should we do about Iraq?” But there is a larger and more important question. And the larger and more important question has to do with the region as a whole. And the actual consequences of U.S. military action over the past 30 years.

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209 comments
1 Gus  Jun 19, 2014 4:50:26pm

Andrew Bacevich

First Lieutenant Andrew Bacevich (right) and Sergeant First Class James Wright in 1970 in the central highlands of South Vietnam. Photo courtesy of Andrew Bacevich

…Bacevich was born in Normal, Illinois, the son of Martha Ellen (Bulfer) and Andrew Bacevich.[6] His father was of Lithuanian descent and his mother was of Irish, German, and English ancestry. He graduated from the United States Military Academy at West Point in 1969 and served in the United States Army during the Vietnam War, serving in Vietnam from the summer of 1970 to the summer of 1971. Later he held posts in Germany, including the 11th Armored Cavalry Regiment; the United States; and the Persian Gulf up to his retirement from the service with the rank of Colonel in the early 1990s. He holds a Ph.D. in American Diplomatic History from Princeton University, and taught at West Point and Johns Hopkins University before joining the faculty at Boston University in 1998…

2 Stanley Sea  Jun 19, 2014 4:51:37pm
ANDREW BACEVICH: Well, I think your use of religious terms is very appropriate here. Because there is a theological — quasi theological dimension to their thinking related, again, to this notion that we are called. We are chosen. We are the instrument of providence.

Remember those briefings Rumsfeld prepared for Bush that had providence bible quotes on the cover?

Really really creepy.

3 simoom  Jun 19, 2014 4:51:59pm

I wonder how much Snowden can play the “World Citizen” role before it starts to damage his previous “still loyal from afar, patriotic objector” incarnation?

l’Espresso interview:

archive.today

“The mass surveillance of entire populations of people who are not suspected of any crime or wrongdoing is a clear violation of human rights and should never have been authorized. The government itself recognizes this, having freely signed Article 12 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, which prohibits this kind of arbitrary interference in our private lives.”

“Defenders of the surveillance state in Congress will never willingly give up a program, even a clearly unconstitutional one, if they believe it gives them some advantage.”

“This is an important moment for reform, but so far it seems clear that only courts like the European Court of Justice have tried to confront the issue seriously.”

“It’s up to us, the Internet is an extraordinary magnifier of power, but that applies to both individuals and states. Magnifying the already massive powers of well-organized super states has narrowed our liberties in a significant way, because they already had so much more power than any given individual.

However, when you consider the theoretical aggregated power of the civil body of the internet standing in solidarity without regard to national borders - a body that previously never existed in history- hope comes into view. States are mighty, but the united body of its public is stronger, and the potential output of an organized but borderless global technical community makes even the most powerful state seem lonely and vulnerable.”

“The Russians, the Chinese, and every other country we think of as being on the ‘naughty list’ can only dream of the NSA’s capabilities, because they do not spend $75 billion a year on intelligence programs.”

Considering he was a Paulian, one has to wonder how this all meshes with their standard NWO / One World Government / UN BS.

Oh, and here’s Snowden praising Wikileaks:

Our interview with Edward Snowden ends with a question about the organization that saved him: WikiLeaks: how does he view Julian Assange’s organization? “They are absolutely fearless in putting principles above politics”, Snowden declares to l’Espresso, “Their mere existence has stiffened the spines of institutions in many countries, because editors know if they shy away from an important but controversial story, they could be scooped by the global alternative to the national press. Our politics may be different, but their efforts to build a transnational culture of transparency and source protection are extraordinary- they run towards the risks everyone else runs away from- and in a time when government control of information can be ruthless, I think that represents a vital example of how to preserve old freedoms in a new age”.

4 Stanley Sea  Jun 19, 2014 4:53:51pm

re: #2 Stanley Sea

Remember those briefings Rumsfeld prepared for Bush that had providence bible quotes on the cover?

Really really creepy.

Creepy

5 Charles Johnson  Jun 19, 2014 4:58:08pm

re: #1 Gus

This is the kind of person who should be on the Sunday talk shows instead of McCain and Cheney and those windbags.

6 Sionainn  Jun 19, 2014 5:00:18pm

re: #2 Stanley Sea

Remember those briefings Rumsfeld prepared for Bush that had providence bible quotes on the cover?

Really really creepy.

No, I don’t remember that!

7 Stanley Sea  Jun 19, 2014 5:01:43pm

re: #6 Sionainn

No, I don’t remember that!

We didn’t find about them until 2008 or something.

8 Sionainn  Jun 19, 2014 5:01:52pm

re: #4 Stanley Sea

Creepy

Just wow.

9 Stanley Sea  Jun 19, 2014 5:03:47pm

re: #8 Sionainn

Just wow.

There were many others. Really unbelievable that they felt “providence” was guiding them. Basically they were impaired, to put it kindly.

10 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jun 19, 2014 5:04:36pm

re: #4 Stanley Sea

He seems to deny having done that personally:

realclearreligion.org

11 blueraven  Jun 19, 2014 5:05:39pm

re: #4 Stanley Sea

Creepy

Very creepy. And this too

Coded references to New Testament Bible passages about Jesus Christ are inscribed on high-powered rifle sights provided to the U.S. military by a Michigan company, an ABC News investigation has found.

The sights are used by U.S. troops in Iraq and Afghanistan and in the training of Iraqi and Afghan soldiers. The maker of the sights, Trijicon, has a $660 million multi-year contract to provide up to 800,000 sights to the Marine Corps, and additional contracts to provide sights to the U.S. Army.
ammo that had bible verses stamped on them?
U.S. military rules specifically prohibit the proselytizing of any religion in Iraq or Afghanistan and were drawn up in order to prevent criticism that the U.S. was embarked on a religious “Crusade” in its war against al Qaeda and Iraqi insurgents.

One of the citations on the gun sights, 2COR4:6, is an apparent reference to Second Corinthians 4:6 of the New Testament, which reads: “For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.”

12 EPR-radar  Jun 19, 2014 5:06:45pm

re: #7 Stanley Sea

We didn’t find about them until 2008 or something.

The incompetence, crookedness and freakiness of the W Bush administration will keep historians busy for decades. I think W was easily worse than any US president of the twentieth century, and only the likes of James Buchanan (who thought the Dred Scott decision would calm things down regarding the slavery issue) keeps W from claiming the title of worst POTUS ever.

13 Justanotherhuman  Jun 19, 2014 5:08:49pm

re: #2 Stanley Sea

Remember those briefings Rumsfeld prepared for Bush that had providence bible quotes on the cover?

Really really creepy.

And the bible references on the combat weapons?

en.wikipedia.org

14 Charles Johnson  Jun 19, 2014 5:09:12pm

re: #7 Stanley Sea

We didn’t find about them until 2008 or something.

Here’s Rachel Maddow’s show with the GQ writer who unearthed these bizarre religious-military slides.

Youtube Video

15 Stanley Sea  Jun 19, 2014 5:10:00pm

re: #10 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

He seems to deny having done that personally:

realclearreligion.org

But he used the standard, “I don’t recall.” That to me is wishy washy denial.

Either he did or he didn’t. You don’t forget that shit.

He should’ve just blamed one of his Liberty University aids.

16 Charles Johnson  Jun 19, 2014 5:11:56pm

That Maddow clip shows several of these slides. I thought we had a post about this here at LGF when it came about, but I can’t seem to find it. Maybe it was a Page.

17 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jun 19, 2014 5:12:55pm

re: #15 Stanley Sea

He does not deny that the quotes appeared though: “I think there was somebody in the Department who did that from time to time in a briefing paper”.

18 Gus  Jun 19, 2014 5:13:03pm

re: #16 Charles Johnson

That Maddow clip shows several of these slides. I thought we had a post about this here at LGF when it came about, but I can’t seem to find it. Maybe it was a Page.

dailymail.co.uk

19 Justanotherhuman  Jun 19, 2014 5:13:14pm

Get ready for the RW horror show.

President Obama called Mexico President Pena Nieto to talk about flood of unaccompanied minors, stresses they won’t qualify for immigration reform - @peterbakernyt
see original on twitter.com

20 Charles Johnson  Jun 19, 2014 5:13:51pm

Can anyone translate this tweet into English? I’ve read it several times and I can’t figure out wtf.

21 Stanley Sea  Jun 19, 2014 5:14:17pm

re: #14 Charles Johnson

Here’s Rachel Maddow’s show with the GQ writer who unearthed these bizarre religious-military slides.

[Embedded content]

Video

Wow. Watching that again.

22 Nines All The Times  Jun 19, 2014 5:14:33pm

Makes you wonder how these people sleep at night after all the lies and now calling for more of the same now? Lives mean nothing. Only money. And oil. WMD. Lie of the Century.

23 Sionainn  Jun 19, 2014 5:14:41pm

re: #11 blueraven

Very creepy. And this too

I remember this one.

24 Charles Johnson  Jun 19, 2014 5:15:08pm
25 Gus  Jun 19, 2014 5:17:10pm

26 Sionainn  Jun 19, 2014 5:17:14pm

re: #20 Charles Johnson

Can anyone translate this tweet into English? I’ve read it several times and I can’t figure out wtf.

[Embedded content]

I think you need to ask Sarah Palin for help. She’s the only one who can translate that gibberish.

27 darthstar  Jun 19, 2014 5:17:32pm

re: #24 Charles Johnson

Looks like a pretty sound wave to me.

28 Sionainn  Jun 19, 2014 5:17:51pm
29 darthstar  Jun 19, 2014 5:20:19pm

re: #20 Charles Johnson

Can anyone translate this tweet into English? I’ve read it several times and I can’t figure out wtf.

[Embedded content]

I’ll try…lemme see…

30 Pie-onist Overlord  Jun 19, 2014 5:20:21pm

re: #20 Charles Johnson

Can anyone translate this tweet into English? I’ve read it several times and I can’t figure out wtf.

[Embedded content]

Its timeline is full of incomprehensible derp.

31 Charles Johnson  Jun 19, 2014 5:20:48pm

re: #25 Gus

I wonder now if seeing these in 2003 might have made me pull away from the conservative side sooner - I think it might have. That “Christian supremacist” kind of stuff has always creeped me out about the right.

32 darthstar  Jun 19, 2014 5:20:57pm

re: #28 Sionainn

That truly is creepy.

That was Rumsfeld.

33 Stanley Sea  Jun 19, 2014 5:21:01pm
34 Stanley Sea  Jun 19, 2014 5:23:14pm

re: #31 Charles Johnson

I wonder now if seeing these in 2003 might have made me pull away from the conservative side sooner - I think it might have. That “Christian supremacist” kind of stuff has always creeped me out about the right.

No doubt. I didn’t see the Maddow date stamp. When did GQ do the story?

35 jonhendry  Jun 19, 2014 5:25:07pm

re: #1 Gus

And a son, Andy, who was killed in 2007 in Iraq.

36 Gus  Jun 19, 2014 5:25:15pm

re: #34 Stanley Sea

No doubt. I didn’t see the Maddow date stamp. When did GQ do the story?

Non-partisan Politico did a quick “well, actually” on this story. //

37 blueraven  Jun 19, 2014 5:25:17pm

re: #34 Stanley Sea

No doubt. I didn’t see the Maddow date stamp. When did GQ do the story?

Video was uploaded to YouTube May 2009

38 Justanotherhuman  Jun 19, 2014 5:25:55pm

And christian bullying continues to this day at the Air Force Academy.

Here’s a story from 2010:

veteranstoday.com

and a more current one:

bizpacreview.com

39 Romantic Heretic  Jun 19, 2014 5:27:40pm
Bacevich believes romanticized images of war in popular culture (especially movies) interact with the lack of actual military service among most of the U.S. population to produce in the American people a highly unrealistic, even dangerous notion of what combat and military service are really like.

How very fucking true. Even things like Saving Private Ryan, which at least tried to accurately portray combat, still had a strongly romantic feel to it. So it’s not the least bit surprising people haven’t the slightest idea of what war is, how it works and how horrible it is.

Withal there are a few bits of American culture that try to get it right.

Band of Brothers did an excellent job. There wasn’t much romance in that.

Another, perhaps not popular but one I enjoy, is Hammer’s Slammers. Written by David Drake, who served a year in country with the Black Horse, it catches what it is like to be at the sharp end.

At any rate, I wish more people read more Sun Tzu and less von Clausewitz.

War is of the utmost importance to the nation. The road to survival or the road to ruin. It is mandatory that it be thoroughly studied.

I’m not certain a lot of those pushing for another war somewhere can even spell war, never mind be aware of the consequences of it.

40 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jun 19, 2014 5:27:54pm

re: #36 Gus

Non-partisan Politico did a quick “well, actually” on this story. //

Thanks, this confirms that it was probably not Rumsfeld.

41 Stanley Sea  Jun 19, 2014 5:27:59pm

re: #36 Gus

Non-partisan Politico did a quick “well, actually” on this story. //

2009. If we had known. According to the stories, they did this to placate the President. Knowing that he lurrrved the biblical providence.

That dude was/is fucked up. Keep painting yourself in the shower if it helps.

42 Gus  Jun 19, 2014 5:29:40pm

Ugh. Veteran’s Today.

43 Stanley Sea  Jun 19, 2014 5:30:33pm

re: #36 Gus

Non-partisan Politico did a quick “well, actually” on this story. //

Still a bullshit denial. If he didn’t want em, he could tell them to fucking stop it.

Bullshit.

44 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jun 19, 2014 5:30:46pm

re: #38 Justanotherhuman

re: #42 Gus

Right, VT are conspiracy loons, better not to cite them.

45 jonhendry  Jun 19, 2014 5:31:08pm

re: #39 Romantic Heretic
Bacevich believes romanticized images of war in popular culture (especially movies) interact with the lack of actual military service among most of the U.S. population to produce in the American people a highly unrealistic, even dangerous notion of what combat and military service are really like.

Don’t forget gun magazines and marketing!

46 Gus  Jun 19, 2014 5:32:36pm

re: #44 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

Right, VT are conspiracy loons, better not to cite them.

Also at VT:

The Jewish Question: A Problem without a Solution (Part 1)
Judaism and Zionism: A Divorce In the Making…?
Zionism - The Greatest Criminal Ruse of All Time
Why deny? A Christian Jew explains “Holocaust denial”
Twitter Sabbath Goy of The Year Award….
Gilad Atzmon With Zeinab Assaffar On Al Mayadeen TV

47 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jun 19, 2014 5:32:49pm

re: #43 Stanley Sea

Nope, he wouldn’t have denied if he thought they were OK.

Also, 4 slides? For a daily report? Means, there were hundreds of those, with only 4 creepy ones.

48 goddamnedfrank  Jun 19, 2014 5:32:52pm
49 GlutenFreeJesus  Jun 19, 2014 5:33:17pm

re: #17 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

He does not deny that the quotes appeared though: “I think there was somebody in the Department who did that from time to time in a briefing paper”.

That “somebody” was him.

50 jaunte  Jun 19, 2014 5:33:33pm

re: #48 goddamnedfrank

That would really pull the room together.

51 Romantic Heretic  Jun 19, 2014 5:33:39pm

re: #28 Sionainn

That truly is creepy.

It makes me snarl.

War is, as William Tecumseh Sherman put it, Hell.

There’s nothing holy about it at all and people trying to make it so are evil.

52 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jun 19, 2014 5:33:42pm

re: #49 GlutenFreeJesus

That “somebody” was him.

You know this how?

53 Lidane  Jun 19, 2014 5:34:03pm

re: #31 Charles Johnson

I wonder now if seeing these in 2003 might have made me pull away from the conservative side sooner - I think it might have. That “Christian supremacist” kind of stuff has always creeped me out about the right.

Speaking of Christian supremacy, have a gander at the final Texas GOP platform that was released today:

Aside from the whole FIX TEH GHEY quackery and all the other sovereign citizen style bad crazy, the Texas GOP argue that the separation of church and state is a myth. Fun times.

54 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jun 19, 2014 5:35:23pm

re: #49 GlutenFreeJesus

That “somebody” was him.

In fact, even the original piece contradicts this. It only claims (and this claim was later disputed) that Rummy “appreciated” these quotes, but that they were put in by someone else. Duh.

55 Gus  Jun 19, 2014 5:35:33pm
56 Stanley Sea  Jun 19, 2014 5:37:45pm

re: #47 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

Nope, he wouldn’t have denied if he thought they were OK.

Also, 4 slides? For a daily report? Means, there were hundreds of those, with only 4 creepy ones.

Eh. He of course would’ve denied when they came out because the optics are horrible. I do not imagine Rumsfeld or any politician/military person as gracious and good when they are in the shit. Main job, cover thy ass.

Only 4 were turned over. But whatever, 4 too many.

57 Stanley Sea  Jun 19, 2014 5:38:56pm

re: #55 Gus

[Embedded content]

cantwontread.

58 Gus  Jun 19, 2014 5:39:13pm

Immunizations- All adult citizens should have the legal right to conscientiously choose which vaccines are administered to themselves, or their minor children, without penalty for refusing a vaccine. We oppose any effort by any authority to mandate such vaccines or any medical database that would contain personal records of citizens without their consent.

59 Gus  Jun 19, 2014 5:39:59pm

Homosexuality- Homosexuality is a chosen behavior that is contrary to the fundamental unchanging truths that have been ordained by God in the Bible, recognized by our nation’s founders, and shared by the majority of Texans. Homosexuality must not be presented as an acceptable alternative lifestyle, in public policy, nor should family be redefined to include homosexual couples. We believe there should be no granting of special legal entitlements or creation of special status for homosexual behavior, regardless of state of origin. Additionally, we oppose any criminal or civil penalties against those who oppose homosexuality out of faith, conviction, or belief in traditional values.

Reparative Therapy- We recognize the legitimacy and efficacy of counseling, which offers reparative therapy and treatment for those patients seeking healing and wholeness from their homosexual lifestyle. No laws or executive orders shall be imposed to limit or restrict access to this type of therapy.

Pornography- We encourage the enforcement of laws regarding all forms of pornography, because pornography is detrimental to society.

60 Gus  Jun 19, 2014 5:40:21pm

United Nations Agenda 21- We oppose implementation of the United Nations Agenda 21 treaty policies and its supporting organizations, agreements, and contracts which were adopted at the Earth Summit Conference in 1992. We oppose the influence, promotion, and implementation of all international nongovernmental organizations’ programs and policies, in the metropolitan and/or regional planning organizations, Councils of Government, and International Council for Local Environmental Initiatives (ICLEI), and the use of American taxes to promote these programs.

61 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jun 19, 2014 5:40:45pm

re: #56 Stanley Sea

Eh. He of course would’ve denied when they came out because the optics are horrible. I do not imagine Rumsfeld or any politician/military person as gracious and good when they are in the shit. Main job, cover thy ass.

Only 4 were turned over. But whatever, 4 too many.

If he understood that the “optics” are horrible, why would he include them in the first place?
Anyway, as I wrote above, even the GQ piece does not claim that those are Rummy’s quotes, they were inserted by Glen Shaffer.

62 Skip Intro  Jun 19, 2014 5:40:50pm

re: #53 Lidane

So far, I see they want to repeal the 17th Amendment, claim addressing climate change is political so they’re against it, want the EPA abolished, allow tax exempt churches to engage in politics, repeal McCain-Feingold (didn’t the Supreme Court basically do that), and loads more.

63 Gus  Jun 19, 2014 5:41:02pm

Protection from Extreme Environmentalists- We strongly oppose all efforts of the extreme environmental groups that stymie legitimate business interests and private property use. We believe the Environmental Protection Agency should be abolished.

Climate Change- While we all strive to be good stewards of the earth, “climate change” is a political agenda which attempts to control every aspect of our lives. We urge government at all levels to ignore any plea for money to fund global climate change or “climate justice” initiatives.

64 Gus  Jun 19, 2014 5:41:44pm

re: #57 Stanley Sea

cantwontread.

Try downloading it.

scribd.com

65 jaunte  Jun 19, 2014 5:42:00pm

re: #55 Gus

Strengths and weaknesses!

66 Charles Johnson  Jun 19, 2014 5:42:02pm

re: #55 Gus

Industrial strength right wing crazy. Been that way for years.

67 Gus  Jun 19, 2014 5:42:16pm

Natural Life- We revere the sanctity of human life and therefore oppose genocide, euthanasia, and assisted suicide.

68 darthstar  Jun 19, 2014 5:42:16pm
69 darthstar  Jun 19, 2014 5:42:40pm

re: #64 Gus

Try downloading it.

scribd.com

Won’tDon’tWantToRead

70 Gus  Jun 19, 2014 5:42:55pm

Health Care and Nutritional Supplements- We oppose any efforts to mandate that vitamins and other natural supplements be on a prescription-only basis, and we oppose any efforts to remove vitamins and other nutritional supplements from public sale. We support the rights of all adults to their choice of nutritional products and alternative health care choices.

71 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jun 19, 2014 5:43:06pm

re: #65 jaunte

[Embedded image]

Strengths and weaknesses!

Of the gravity theory?

72 jaunte  Jun 19, 2014 5:43:27pm

A remarkably diverse document.

73 teleskiguy  Jun 19, 2014 5:43:54pm

re: #65 jaunte

[Embedded image]

Strengths and weaknesses!

The authors of this garbage have no idea how science works.

74 Charles Johnson  Jun 19, 2014 5:44:13pm

Does the 2014 platform still oppose critical thinking?

75 RealityBasedSteve  Jun 19, 2014 5:44:18pm

re: #50 jaunte

That would really pull the room together.

and I doubt anybody would pee on it.

RBS

76 Gus  Jun 19, 2014 5:44:23pm

Judeo-Christian Nation- As America is a nation under God, founded on Judeo-Christian principles, we affirm the constitutional right of all individuals to worship as they choose.

77 goddamnedfrank  Jun 19, 2014 5:44:26pm

re: #47 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

Nope, he wouldn’t have denied if he thought they were OK.

Also, 4 slides? For a daily report? Means, there were hundreds of those, with only 4 creepy ones.

Or the source only had those four available years later.

re: #54 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

In fact, even the original piece contradicts this. It only claims (and this claim was later disputed) that Rummy “appreciated” these quotes, but that they were put in by someone else. Duh.

OK, but they were published ostensibly by his office. This kind of goes back to the whole Ron Paul newsletter deal, either he knew or he should have known. Did Rumsfeld simply hire some hyper Christian wack-a-doo to do the document creation?

78 teleskiguy  Jun 19, 2014 5:44:45pm

re: #70 Gus

alternative health care choices.

What, you mean like prayer?

/

79 Gus  Jun 19, 2014 5:45:14pm

re: #74 Charles Johnson

Does the 2014 platform still oppose critical thinking?

Knowledge Based Education- We oppose the teaching of values clarification and similar programs that focus on behavior modification and have the purpose of challenging the student’s fixed beliefs and undermining parental authority. Rather, we encourage the teaching of critical thinking skills, including logic, rhetoric and analytical sciences

80 teleskiguy  Jun 19, 2014 5:45:28pm

Thank you Gus for reading the Texas GOP Platform and highlighting the derp.

81 Backwoods_Sleuth  Jun 19, 2014 5:46:27pm

re: #79 Gus

Knowledge Based Education- We oppose the teaching of values clarification and similar programs that focus on behavior modification and have the purpose of challenging the student’s fixed beliefs and undermining parental authority. Rather, we encourage the teaching of critical thinking skills, including logic, rhetoric and analytical sciences

well, except for teh gheys…

82 ObserverArt  Jun 19, 2014 5:46:34pm

re: #5 Charles Johnson

This is the kind of person who should be on the Sunday talk shows instead of McCain and Cheney and those windbags.

And probably the reason they do not have these type of people.

McCain and Cheney and the like are cartoon characters that Americans are familiar with and they already know all the punch lines. And no matter they draw an auto-response.

Put someone like this on and they would either turn it off or complain they don’t know what the guy is talking about…because they are not going to want to have to pay attention.

Yeah, I’m cynical on stuff like this. We have a Tea Party for the same damn reason. So, I’m not that cynical!

83 wrenchwench  Jun 19, 2014 5:46:36pm

re: #70 Gus

Health Care and Nutritional Supplements- We oppose any efforts to mandate that vitamins and other natural supplements be on a prescription-only basis, and we oppose any efforts to remove vitamins and other nutritional supplements from public sale. We support the rights of all adults to their choice of nutritional products and alternative health care choices.

RAW MILK!!!11!

84 teleskiguy  Jun 19, 2014 5:46:39pm

re: #79 Gus

Knowledge Based Education- We oppose the teaching of values clarification and similar programs that focus on behavior modification and have the purpose of challenging the student’s fixed beliefs and undermining parental authority. Rather, we encourage the teaching of critical thinking skills, including logic, rhetoric and analytical sciences

Goddamn this is some real argle bargle.

85 Gus  Jun 19, 2014 5:46:48pm

Investigate Benghazi - We call upon the United States House of Representatives to appoint a select committee and a special prosecutor in order to subpoena testimony to fully investigate all aspects of the Benghazi debacle, including, but not limited to, the reason Ambassador Stevens was in Benghazi; the denied assistance before and during the attack, the accounts of personnel who participated in the defense of the embassy annex, and the apparent attempt by the White House to deceive the American public with a concocted story about a spontaneous reaction to a YouTube video. We call for bringing those responsible to justice, including jail time.

86 jaunte  Jun 19, 2014 5:46:53pm

re: #79 Gus

challenging the student’s fixed beliefs

Wouldn’t want education to do that, nossirree.

87 Charles Johnson  Jun 19, 2014 5:46:53pm

re: #79 Gus

Knowledge Based Education- We oppose the teaching of values clarification and similar programs that focus on behavior modification and have the purpose of challenging the student’s fixed beliefs and undermining parental authority. Rather, we encourage the teaching of critical thinking skills, including logic, rhetoric and analytical sciences

Hah! The bad press obviously got to them. Here’s how that section read in 2012:

Knowledge-Based Education - We oppose the teaching of Higher Order Thinking Skills (HOTS) (values clarification), critical thinking skills and similar programs that are simply a relabeling of Outcome-Based Education (OBE) (mastery learning) which focus on behavior modification and have the purpose of challenging the student’s fixed beliefs and undermining parental authority.

88 Gus  Jun 19, 2014 5:47:24pm

re: #83 wrenchwench

RAW MILK!!!11!

Raw milk and dairy products- We support legislation confirming local dairy farmers’ rights to produce and sell natural milk and dairy products within the State of Texas.

89 RealityBasedSteve  Jun 19, 2014 5:47:40pm

re: #43 Stanley Sea

Still a bullshit denial. If he didn’t want em, he could tell them to fucking stop it.

Bullshit.

If it was being done, (and it was), it was with his consent and concurrence. I used to prepare briefing slides for the various Commanders and Staff officers I’d worked for, and I guarantee you that they very carefully screened each one. It’s impossible for me to believe that the Sec Def didn’t review and approve all the slides before he presented. It’s inconceivable, and I am using that term literally.

RBS

90 Romantic Heretic  Jun 19, 2014 5:47:59pm

re: #76 Gus

Judeo-Christian Nation- As America is a nation under God, founded on Judeo-Christian principles, we affirm the constitutional right of all individuals to worship as they choose except for people that aren’t Christians. Those people will be deported to where they came from, or dumped in the ocean. We’re not fussy.

What they really mean.

91 Bubblehead II  Jun 19, 2014 5:48:15pm

re: #70 Gus

Health Care and Nutritional Supplements- We oppose any efforts to mandate that vitamins and other natural supplements be on a prescription-only basis, and we oppose any efforts to remove vitamins and other nutritional supplements from public sale. We support the rights of all adults to their choice of nutritional products and alternative health care choices.

I can live with this one. I do take vitamins/supplements. Some recommended by my doctor, others after researching them and after consultation with same doctor.

92 Charles Johnson  Jun 19, 2014 5:48:18pm

Interesting to see the Texas GOP’s positions evolving to deal with environmental pressures, something they don’t generally believe in.

93 jaunte  Jun 19, 2014 5:49:03pm

re: #88 Gus

Raw milk and dairy products- We support legislation confirming local dairy farmers’ rights to produce and sell natural milk and dairy products within the State of Texas.

Raw milk is milk from cows, sheep, or goats that has not been pasteurized to kill harmful bacteria. This raw, unpasteurized milk can carry dangerous bacteria such as Salmonella, E. coli, and Listeria, which are responsible for causing numerous foodborne illnesses.

These harmful bacteria can seriously affect the health of anyone who drinks raw milk, or eats foods made from raw milk. However, the bacteria in raw milk can be especially dangerous to people with weakened immune systems, older adults, pregnant women, and children. In fact, the CDC analysis found that foodborne illness from raw milk especially affected children and teenagers.
fda.gov

But they don’t vote, so hey.

94 Gus  Jun 19, 2014 5:49:24pm

re: #91 Bubblehead II

I can live with this one. I do take vitamins/supplements. Some recommended by my doctor, others after researching them and after consultation with same doctor.

The punchline here is alternative health care choices.

95 Gus  Jun 19, 2014 5:49:57pm

Alternative health care choices… ergo, “we support medical quackery.

96 Gus  Jun 19, 2014 5:50:52pm

Israel- We believe that the United States and Israel share a special long-standing relationship based on shared values, a mutual commitment to a republican form of government, and a strategic alliance that benefits both nations. Our foreign policy with Israel should reflect the right of sovereign nations to govern themselves and have self-determination. In our diplomatic dealings with Israel, we encourage the continuation of peace talks between Israel and the Palestinians, but oppose pressuring Israel to compromise their sovereignty or security. Our policy is inspired by God’s biblical promise to bless those who bless Israel and curse those who curse Israel and we further invite other nations and organizations to enjoy the benefits of that promise.

97 wrenchwench  Jun 19, 2014 5:51:09pm

re: #94 Gus

The punchline here is alternative health care choices.

Also a huge supplements industry that wants to make unsupported claims for their products, and wants to sell stuff that has not been verified to contain what the label says it contains.

98 teleskiguy  Jun 19, 2014 5:51:18pm

re: #95 Gus

Alternative health care choices… ergo, “we support medical quackery.

See Comment #78 in this thread.

99 jaunte  Jun 19, 2014 5:51:52pm

I like a shot of colloidal silver in my raw milk.

100 Gus  Jun 19, 2014 5:52:10pm

re: #98 teleskiguy

See Comment #78 in this thread.

Yep. That too.

101 wrenchwench  Jun 19, 2014 5:52:23pm

re: #96 Gus

Israel- We believe that the United States and Israel share a special long-standing relationship based on shared values, a mutual commitment to a republican form of government, and a strategic alliance that benefits both nations. Our foreign policy with Israel should reflect the right of sovereign nations to govern themselves and have self-determination. In our diplomatic dealings with Israel, we encourage the continuation of peace talks between Israel and the Palestinians, but oppose pressuring Israel to compromise their sovereignty or security. Our policy is inspired by God’s biblical promise to bless those who bless Israel and curse those who curse Israel and we further invite other nations and organizations to enjoy the benefits of that promise.

Oh yeah. Israel is ALSO a Judeo-Christian nation!

/

102 Belafon  Jun 19, 2014 5:53:45pm

re: #81 Backwoods_Sleuth

I’m pretty sure it’s the stuff after what you highlight that encourages challenging what their parents say

103 Lidane  Jun 19, 2014 5:53:50pm

Addictive Behaviors- We encourage state and federal governments to severely prosecute illegal dealers and manufacturers of addictive substances, including pornography, and/or pedophilia. We urge Congress to discourage import of such substances into our country. Faith based rehabilitation programs should be emphasized. We oppose legalization of illicit and synthetic drugs. We support an effective abstinence-based educational program for children. We oppose any “needle exchange” program. We urge vigorous enforcement of our DUI laws.

104 teleskiguy  Jun 19, 2014 5:54:22pm

re: #96 Gus

Israel- We believe that the United States and Israel share a special long-standing relationship based on shared values, a mutual commitment to a republican form of government, and a strategic alliance that benefits both nations. Our foreign policy with Israel should reflect the right of sovereign nations to govern themselves and have self-determination. In our diplomatic dealings with Israel, we encourage the continuation of peace talks between Israel and the Palestinians, but oppose pressuring Israel to compromise their sovereignty or security. Our policy is inspired by God’s biblical promise to bless those who bless Israel and curse those who curse Israel and we further invite other nations and organizations to enjoy the benefits of that promise.

Oh yeah, gotta be all buddy buddy with Israel. After all, that’s where Jesus will come back in my lifetime and we’ll all go to heaven

105 thedopefishlives  Jun 19, 2014 5:54:46pm

Evening Lizardim.

106 klys  Jun 19, 2014 5:54:59pm

re: #101 wrenchwench

Oh yeah. Israel is ALSO a Judeo-Christian nation!

/

The whole Judeo-Christian thing …I like how they pretend there’s not a third major Abrahamic faith.

107 teleskiguy  Jun 19, 2014 5:55:13pm

re: #103 Lidane

We urge vigorous enforcement of our DUI laws.

OK, have to agree with this one.

108 calochortus  Jun 19, 2014 5:55:25pm

re: #102 Belafon

I’m pretty sure it’s the stuff after what you highlight that encourages challenging what their parents say

What kind of parent can’t deal with a kid challenging them? I thought that was pretty much a kid’s job.
Yeah, I know. Parents who aren’t secure in their own beliefs and don’t feel competent to defend those beliefs.

109 Gus  Jun 19, 2014 5:55:35pm

Opposition to Socialism - Socialism breeds mediocrity. America is exceptional. Therefore, the Republican Party of Texas opposes socialism in all of its forms.

110 teleskiguy  Jun 19, 2014 5:55:58pm

re: #109 Gus

Opposition to Socialism - Socialism breeds mediocrity. America is exceptional. Therefore, the Republican Party of Texas opposes socialism in all of its forms.

Except the NFL.

111 RealityBasedSteve  Jun 19, 2014 5:56:03pm

re: #105 thedopefishlives

Evening Lizardim.

And how fares the fish this evening?

RBS

112 Lidane  Jun 19, 2014 5:56:08pm

Confusion, they haz it:

The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (“Obamacare”)
- We demand the immediate repeal of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, which we believe to be unconstitutional.

Health Care Choice- We urge the passage of health care reform which results in more affordable healthcare through a market-based, competitive, and transparent health care system, including tort reform, interstate competition, genuine accountability and oversight.

113 jaunte  Jun 19, 2014 5:56:20pm

re: #109 Gus

The Republican Party of Texas will let you know what socialism is.

114 klys  Jun 19, 2014 5:56:23pm

re: #109 Gus

Opposition to Socialism - Socialism breeds mediocrity. America is exceptional. Therefore, the Republican Party of Texas opposes socialism in all of its forms.

Alaska?

115 Gus  Jun 19, 2014 5:56:28pm

PREAMBLE

We STILL hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness. Throughout the world, people dare to dream of freedom and opportunity. The Republican Party of Texas unequivocally defends that dream. We strive to preserve the freedom given to us by God, implemented by our Founding Fathers, and embodied in the Constitution. We recognize that the traditional family is the strength of our nation. It is our solemn duty to protect life and develop responsible citizens. We understand that our economic success depends upon free market principles. If we fail to maintain our sovereignty, we risk losing the freedom to live these ideals.

PRINCIPLES

We, the 2014 Republican Party of Texas, believe in this platform and expect our elected leaders to uphold these truths through acknowledgement and action. We believe in:
1. Strict adherence to the original intent of the Declaration of Independence and United States and Texas Constitutions.
2. The sanctity of human life, created in the image of God, which should be protected from fertilization to natural death.
3. Preserving American and Texas sovereignty and freedom.
4. Limiting government power to those items enumerated in the United States and Texas Constitutions.
5. Personal accountability and responsibility.
6. Self-sufficient families, founded on the traditional marriage of a natural man and a natural woman.
7. Having an educated population, with parents having the freedom of choice for the education of their children.
8. Americans having the right to be safe in their homes, on their streets, and in their communities; and the unalienable right to defend themselves.
9. A free enterprise society unencumbered by government interference or subsidies.
10. Honoring all of those that serve and protect our freedom.
11. And we believe in “The laws of nature and nature’s God” as our Founding Fathers believed.

116 Gus  Jun 19, 2014 5:57:26pm

Full Repeal of the 17th Amendment of the United States Constitution- Return the appointment of United States Senators by the state legislatures.

117 b_sharp  Jun 19, 2014 5:57:53pm

re: #103 Lidane

Addictive Behaviors- We encourage state and federal governments to severely prosecute illegal dealers and manufacturers of addictive substances, including pornography, and/or pedophilia. We urge Congress to discourage import of such substances into our country. Faith based rehabilitation programs should be emphasized. We oppose legalization of illicit and synthetic drugs. We support an effective abstinence-based educational program for children. We oppose any “needle exchange” program. We urge vigorous enforcement of our DUI laws.

Interesting goals, crappy methods.

118 calochortus  Jun 19, 2014 5:57:54pm

re: #115 Gus

What if socialism makes me happy? Can I still pursue happiness?
/

119 darthstar  Jun 19, 2014 5:58:02pm

Heh…So Wildstein and Kelley both want to give up Samson in exchange for immunity. Prosecutors in NJ have said no…they want Christie.

Re: Samson - they’re saying they’ve “got him cold”…if he flips, Christie won’t finish his term as Governor.

120 Bubblehead II  Jun 19, 2014 5:58:06pm

re: #94 Gus

The punchline here is alternative health care choices.

We support the rights of all adults to their choice of nutritional products and alternative health care choices.

If an adult wants to choose an alternative method of health care, that is their choice. Now when it comes to minors, that’s a different kettle of fish and what is best for the child overrides the adults beliefs.

Just my 2 cents worth

121 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jun 19, 2014 5:59:59pm

re: #96 Gus

Does USA and Ukraine have a special relationship now? Ukraine seems to fulfill all the criteria. /

122 teleskiguy  Jun 19, 2014 6:00:15pm

re: #116 Gus

Full Repeal of the 17th Amendment of the United States Constitution- Return the appointment of United States Senators by the state legislatures.

Of course they’d be against the direct election of Senators. It was so much better before, when old white men met in smoky rooms to pick senators.

123 Rightwingconspirator  Jun 19, 2014 6:00:23pm

re: #88 Gus

& WW of course…

What’s funny is taking a look at the utterly (udderly?) dysfunctional nature of the argument here in the USA. For example the EU is no slouch for consumer safety. So try to square the following with our childish approach.

Raw Milk Vending Machines Take Over Europe
By Sam Brasch on March 25, 2014

Europe’s embrace of raw milk vending machines isn’t new. Such daring dispensers of unpasteurized dairy can be found in France, Croatia, Switzerland, Austria, the Netherlands and, as one map shows, all over the place in Italy. In a recent post for TakePart, Rebecca McCray, a Fulbright fellow studying the criminal justice system in Slovenia, digs into the story behind one such machine outside Ljubljana.

There, local dairy farmer Marko Bitenc refills his machine with fresh milk once a day. Because he owns and operates the machine, there is no middle man between farmer and consumers — just a few buttons and a spout.

124 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jun 19, 2014 6:01:02pm

re: #106 klys

The whole Judeo-Christian thing …I like how they pretend there’s not a third major Abrahamic faith.

Saying “Judeo-Christian” makes as much sense as “Judeo-Islamic” and “Christo-Islamic”.

125 Stanley Sea  Jun 19, 2014 6:01:30pm

re: #83 wrenchwench

RAW MILK!!!11!

Phen fen for all!

126 wrenchwench  Jun 19, 2014 6:02:47pm

“Imma hold Maliki’s head like this, and then….”

127 thedopefishlives  Jun 19, 2014 6:03:56pm

re: #111 RealityBasedSteve

And how fares the fish this evening?

RBS

Dead tired. But I’m not floating belly-up in the lake yet, although the water levels are certainly high enough for that.

128 Justanotherhuman  Jun 19, 2014 6:04:12pm

re: #44 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

Right, VT are conspiracy loons, better not to cite them.

Oh, shit! I had forgotten that about VT. At any rate, the proselytizing at the AFA was very real and rampant during the Bush years. Mikey Weinstein isn’t a conspiracy nut, though, AFAIK.

129 teleskiguy  Jun 19, 2014 6:05:16pm

re: #115 Gus


2. The sanctity of human life, created in the image of God, which should be protected from fertilization to natural death.

What a load of shit. As soon as that fertilized egg becomes military age these same assholes would send them off to some quagmire half way across the world so they can die a natural death by getting their balls blown off.

130 calochortus  Jun 19, 2014 6:05:47pm

Must go get dinner and get ready for a meeting.
Have a good evening, lizards.

131 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jun 19, 2014 6:06:13pm

re: #129 teleskiguy

And of course once it’s about the capital punishment, the sanctity of life flies out of the window.

132 Charles Johnson  Jun 19, 2014 6:06:16pm

Just bought the Kindle version of Andrew Bacevich’s book: The New American Militarism: How Americans Are Seduced by War.

The book description:

In this provocative book, Andrew Bacevich warns of a dangerous dual obsession that has taken hold of Americans, both conservatives and liberals alike. It is a marriage of militarism and utopian ideology, of unprecedented military might wed to a blind faith in the universality of American values. This mindset, Bacevich warns, invites endless war and the ever-deepening militarization of U.S. policy. It promises not to perfect but to pervert American ideals and to accelerate the hollowing out of American democracy.

In The New American Militarism, Bacevich examines the origins and implications of this misguided enterprise. He shows how American militarism emerged as a reaction to the Vietnam War, when various groups in American society -soldiers, politicians on the make, intellectuals, strategists, Christian evangelicals, even purveyors of pop culture-came to see the revival of military power and the celebration of military values as the antidote to all the ills besetting the country as a consequence of Vietnam and the 1960s. The upshot, acutely evident in the aftermath of 9/11, has been a revival of vast ambitions, this time coupled with a pronounced affinity for the sword.

Bacevich urges Americans to restore a sense of realism and a sense of proportion to U.S. policy. He proposes, in short, to bring American purposes and American methods-especially with regard to the role of the military-back into harmony with the nation’s founding ideals.

For this edition, Bacevich has written a new Afterword in which he considers how American militarism has changed in the past five years. He explores in particular how this ideology has functioned under Barack Obama, who ran for president on a campaign based on hope for change and for a new beginning.

Despite such rhetoric, Bacevich powerfully suggests, the attitudes and arrangements giving rise to the new American militarism remain intact and inviolable as ever.

133 Skip Intro  Jun 19, 2014 6:06:24pm

Hillary Clinton: US may need to ‘raise the decibels’ to free Marine held in Mexico

Her pandering is starting to get on my nerves.

134 Lidane  Jun 19, 2014 6:06:28pm

Symbols of American Heritage- We call upon governmental entities to protect all symbols of our American heritage from being altered in any way.

Confederate Widow’s Plaque- We call for restoration of plaques honoring the Confederate Widow’s Pension Fund contribution that were illegally removed from the Texas Supreme Court building

135 jaunte  Jun 19, 2014 6:06:58pm

re: #129 teleskiguy

2. The sanctity of human life, created in the image of God, which should be protected from fertilization to natural death.

That would mean they would criminally investigate any woman who suffers an ectopic pregnancy.

136 wrenchwench  Jun 19, 2014 6:07:10pm

re: #129 teleskiguy

What a load of shit. As soon as that fertilized egg becomes military age these same assholes would send them off to some quagmire half way across the world so they can die a natural death by getting their balls blown off.

Also, if that fertilized egg didn’t make it out of the Fallopian tube, Republicans are the Party of death.

137 klys  Jun 19, 2014 6:07:27pm

re: #124 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

Saying “Judeo-Christian” makes as much sense as “Judeo-Islamic” and “Christo-Islamic”.

Actually, I’d bet serious money that most of the GOP voting base doesn’t know that Islam is an Abrahamic religion. The thought that those people could know about Jesus and reject him does not compute well, nor the idea that they share any type of background.

Judaism is only ok because they’re needed for the end times. That’s why it gets that little bit of lip service.

138 wrenchwench  Jun 19, 2014 6:07:36pm

re: #135 jaunte

That would mean they would criminally investigate any woman who suffers an ectopic pregnancy.

Or just bury her.

139 Stanley Sea  Jun 19, 2014 6:07:40pm

re: #96 Gus

Israel- We believe that the United States and Israel share a special long-standing relationship based on shared values, a mutual commitment to a republican form of government, and a strategic alliance that benefits both nations. Our foreign policy with Israel should reflect the right of sovereign nations to govern themselves and have self-determination. In our diplomatic dealings with Israel, we encourage the continuation of peace talks between Israel and the Palestinians, but oppose pressuring Israel to compromise their sovereignty or security. Our policy is inspired by God’s biblical promise to bless those who bless Israel and curse those who curse Israel and we further invite other nations and organizations to enjoy the benefits of that promise.

Wait a minute. Maybe I’m uninformed, but the phrase I see all the time is a democratic form of govt. Is a republican form different? Or just got to rid this document of any reference to the demoncrats?

140 teleskiguy  Jun 19, 2014 6:08:34pm

re: #134 Lidane

Confederate Widow’s Plaque- We call for restoration of plaques honoring the Confederate Widow’s Pension Fund contribution that were illegally removed from the Texas Supreme Court building

Yeah, removed by George W. Bush!

141 Gus  Jun 19, 2014 6:08:46pm

If an individual thinks eating raw potatoes will cure his/her cancer and use it as a form of “alternative medicine” that’s fine. However, if an individual sets up a business selling “raw potatoes that cure cancer,” that’s not fine.

142 Justanotherhuman  Jun 19, 2014 6:08:56pm

re: #133 Skip Intro

Hillary Clinton: US may need to ‘raise the decibels’ to free Marine held in Mexico

Her pandering is starting to get on my nerves.

Link?

143 klys  Jun 19, 2014 6:09:29pm

re: #140 teleskiguy

Yeah, removed by George W. Bush!

That RINO.

144 Skip Intro  Jun 19, 2014 6:09:41pm

re: #142 Justanotherhuman

Link?

foxnews.com

145 OhNoZombies!  Jun 19, 2014 6:09:51pm

Wow!
He hit the mark in one fell swoop.

146 wrenchwench  Jun 19, 2014 6:10:40pm

Slideshow at the link.

Later, lizards.

147 Skip Intro  Jun 19, 2014 6:10:47pm

re: #143 klys

That RINO.

That’s Texas RINO to you.

148 Killgore Trout  Jun 19, 2014 6:10:53pm

re: #133 Skip Intro

Hillary Clinton: US may need to ‘raise the decibels’ to free Marine held in Mexico

Her pandering is starting to get on my nerves.

“I have yet begun to pander”
/Hillary voice

149 EPR-radar  Jun 19, 2014 6:15:13pm

What a fine collection of distilled stupidity and malice the TX GOP has blessed itself with in the form of its 2014 platform.

I wonder how GOP apologists will try to spin this plump turducken of pure idiocy?

150 Gus  Jun 19, 2014 6:16:03pm

Oy. Joe Walsh. Not the guitarist. The idiot.

151 teleskiguy  Jun 19, 2014 6:16:16pm

re: #137 klys

Actually, I’d bet serious money that most of the GOP voting base doesn’t know that Islam is an Abrahamic religion. The thought that those people could know about Jesus and reject him does not compute well, nor the idea that they share any type of background.

Judaism is only ok because they’re needed for the end times. That’s why it gets that little bit of lip service.

The Old and New Testament are part of the Koran. Not that RWNJs would know that, they look at a Koran and think [bigoted word] TERRORIST MANUAL.

152 jaunte  Jun 19, 2014 6:16:43pm

re: #149 EPR-radar

Even Steve Munisteri, the TX GOP chairman, is backing away from it.

153 Pie-onist Overlord  Jun 19, 2014 6:16:44pm

re: #96 Gus

Israel- We believe that the United States and Israel share a special long-standing relationship based on shared values, a mutual commitment to a republican form of government, and a strategic alliance that benefits both nations. Our foreign policy with Israel should reflect the right of sovereign nations to govern themselves and have self-determination. In our diplomatic dealings with Israel, we encourage the continuation of peace talks between Israel and the Palestinians, but oppose pressuring Israel to compromise their sovereignty or security. Our policy is inspired by God’s biblical promise to bless those who bless Israel and curse those who curse Israel and we further invite other nations and organizations to enjoy the benefits of that promise.

Israel is not a totem for somebody else’s crazed belief system. The whole purpose of Zionism is to create a state for Jewish people like every other nation.

154 Justanotherhuman  Jun 19, 2014 6:17:18pm

re: #144 Skip Intro

foxnews.com

She also said she thought everything that could be done was being done, make a couple of phone calls, call everyone we knew to, then she said, maybe raise the decibels a little bit.

She also admitted she didn’t “know all the specifics” of the situation and, frustratingly, picked up on the excuse that he had “made a wrong turn”.

155 RealityBasedSteve  Jun 19, 2014 6:17:36pm

re: #135 jaunte

That would mean they would criminally investigate any woman who suffers an ectopic pregnancy.

An argument that I have used on occasion is to get them to confirm that, to them, Abortion = Murder. A “True-Believer” has no problem with that.

Once they commit to that, I simply ask them since we arrest murderers and can sentence them to death, should a doctor that performs abortions, in your world, be arrested and charged. Often, the answer to that is a resounding “Yes”.

Once they have committed to that, I ask, since we also hold the person who ordered a murder to be equally culpable in the crime, they you would also have absolutely no problem with arresting the woman for murder also.

That usually ends the conversation (at least in any meaningful sense of the term)

Yes, I’m a bit of a cruel asshole, but only to those that have deserved it.

RBS

156 ObserverArt  Jun 19, 2014 6:18:55pm

re: #150 Gus

Oy. Joe Walsh. Not the guitarist. The idiot.

Funk 69

/

157 Skip Intro  Jun 19, 2014 6:18:56pm

re: #149 EPR-radar

What a fine collection of distilled stupidity and malice the TX GOP has blessed itself with in the form of its 2014 platform.

I wonder how GOP apologists will try to spin this plump turducken of pure idiocy?

I would expect nothing less from the home of Louie Gohmert, Steve Stockman, Ted Cruz, Joe Barton, Ralph Hall, Pete Sessions, etc, etc, etc.

158 dog philosopher  Jun 19, 2014 6:19:43pm

9. A free enterprise society unencumbered by government interference or subsidies.

so they’ll support ending “farm” and oil company subsidies?

159 Charles Johnson  Jun 19, 2014 6:19:55pm

Another clip from this interview:

Vimeo

BACEVICH: We have been engaged in the Islamic world at least since 1980, in a military project based on the assumption that the adroit use of American hard power can somehow pacify or fix this part of the world. We can now examine more than three decades of this effort.

Let’s look at what U.S. military intervention in Iraq has achieved, in Afghanistan has achieved, in Somalia has achieved, in Lebanon has achieved, in Libya has achieved. I mean, ask ourselves the very simple question. Is the region becoming more stable? Is it becoming more democratic?

Are we alleviating, reducing the prevalence of anti-Americanism? I mean, if the answer is yes, then let’s keep trying. But if the answer to those questions is no, then maybe it’s time for us to recognize that this larger military project is failing and is not going to succeed simply by trying harder.

The events that are unfolding in Iraq at this very moment promote a debate within Washington revolving around the question, “What should we do about Iraq?” But there is a larger and more important question. And the larger and more important question has to do with the region as a whole. And the actual consequences of U.S. military action over the past 30 years.

160 Gus  Jun 19, 2014 6:19:59pm

re: #156 ObserverArt

Funk 69

/

Everything you need to know here.

161 Gus  Jun 19, 2014 6:21:18pm

Had to fix something and edit the link.

162 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jun 19, 2014 6:21:25pm

re: #133 Skip Intro

Hillary Clinton: US may need to ‘raise the decibels’ to free Marine held in Mexico

Her pandering is starting to get on my nerves.

Yep. But she does what needs to be done, I guess…

BTW, I hated HRC in 2008 and thought (and still think) that her campaign against Obama was dirty. Of course, one can’t pout forever, so all is forgiven (tho not forgotten), and it will be very interesting to see her rip her wingnut rival apart.

163 jaunte  Jun 19, 2014 6:21:49pm
164 dog philosopher  Jun 19, 2014 6:21:56pm

re: #139 Stanley Sea

Wait a minute. Maybe I’m uninformed, but the phrase I see all the time is a democratic form of govt. Is a republican form different? Or just got to rid this document of any reference to the demoncrats?

they deny that american is a democracy by redefining ‘democracy’ to only mean what is usually called ‘direct’ or ‘athenian’ democracy, that is, democracy by direct vote of all citizens on any questions

but then somehow they go on to abhor even this kind of democracy, i’m not sure why

the united states is of course a ‘representative’ democracy

165 dog philosopher  Jun 19, 2014 6:23:08pm

2. The sanctity of human life, created in the image of God, which should be protected from fertilization to natural death.

except i somehow have to think for legal executions, about which yee haw hang the motherfucker

166 Pie-onist Overlord  Jun 19, 2014 6:23:10pm

We Juice can continue to believe that we are chosen and exceptional but that applies only to our own relationship with G-D and should not have any effect on anyone else.

Also too: Juice don’t believe that non-Juice are all going to Hell.

167 darthstar  Jun 19, 2014 6:23:41pm
168 FemNaziBitch  Jun 19, 2014 6:25:16pm
169 teleskiguy  Jun 19, 2014 6:25:25pm

re: #166 Pie-onist Overlord

Juice don’t believe that non-Juice are all going to Hell.

I love it when a Christian finds out I’m atheist and they tell me “I will pray for you and your soul.” To me, I’m hearing “We know you’re going to hell when you die, but I’m thinking of you!”

170 FemNaziBitch  Jun 19, 2014 6:25:35pm
171 Justanotherhuman  Jun 19, 2014 6:25:44pm

re: #164 dog philosopher

they deny that american is a democracy by redefining ‘democracy’ to only mean what is usually called ‘direct’ or ‘athenian’ democracy, that is, democracy by direct vote of all citizens on any questions

but then somehow they go on to abhor even this kind of democracy, i’m not sure why

the united states is of course a ‘representative’ democracy

Yeah,

“f you want the most technical term, our country is a constitutionally limited representative democratic republic. Our form of government, the constitution limits the power of government. We elect representatives, so it’s not a pure democracy. But we do elect them by majority rule so it is democratic.”

thomhartmann.com

172 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jun 19, 2014 6:25:53pm

Agenda 21 as seen by the wingnuts:

173 ObserverArt  Jun 19, 2014 6:26:16pm

re: #160 Gus

Everything you need to know here.

No surprises. He’s the pugnacious type, and more foul than many.

That’s why I went from Funk 49 (James Gang tune) to Funk 69. He’s in love with his own bad self.

174 FemNaziBitch  Jun 19, 2014 6:26:24pm

re: #169 teleskiguy

I love it when a Christian finds out I’m atheist and they tell me “I will pray for you and your soul.” To me, I’m hearing “We know you’re going to hell when you die, but I’m thinking of you!”

Telling them there is no Hell is actually fun, IMHO. The looks they get on their faces …

175 dog philosopher  Jun 19, 2014 6:26:28pm

judeo-christian

not sure why repeating this meaningless incantation makes it ok for them to flagrantly violate the strong anti-establishmentarian principles of the founding fathers

176 Charles Johnson  Jun 19, 2014 6:26:50pm
177 FemNaziBitch  Jun 19, 2014 6:27:09pm

re: #175 dog philosopher

judeo-christian

not sure why repeating this meaningless incantation makes it ok for them to flagrantly violate the strong anti-establishmentarian principles of the founding fathers

It means, to them, that they can’t be Nazi’s.

178 dog philosopher  Jun 19, 2014 6:27:52pm

re: #171 Justanotherhuman

Yeah,

“f you want the most technical term, our country is a constitutionally limited representative democratic republic. Our form of government, the constitution limits the power of government. We elect representatives, so it’s not a pure democracy. But we do elect them by majority rule so it is democratic.”

thomhartmann.com

there you go with your socialist lexicography again

rull americans define their words by i said so that’s why

179 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jun 19, 2014 6:28:00pm

re: #174 FemNaziBitch

Telling them there is no Hell is actually fun, IMHO. The looks they get on their faces …

They usually say smth trite, like, “You’ll have a chance to see yourself”.

180 FemNaziBitch  Jun 19, 2014 6:28:10pm
181 Charles Johnson  Jun 19, 2014 6:28:31pm

“The station keeps cutting me off. I don’t know why.”

This, ladies and gentlemen, is the right wing asshole in its natural habitat.

182 Bubblehead II  Jun 19, 2014 6:28:44pm

re: #169 teleskiguy

I love it when a Christian finds out I’m atheist and they tell me “I will pray for you and your soul.” To me, I’m hearing “We know you’re going to hell when you die, but I’m thinking of you!”

183 teleskiguy  Jun 19, 2014 6:29:28pm

re: #182 Bubblehead II

Precisely.

184 jaunte  Jun 19, 2014 6:29:34pm
After today, I’m having a much needed drink.

Just keep your mouth busy with that, Joe.

185 Skip Intro  Jun 19, 2014 6:29:56pm

re: #179 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

They usually say smth trite, like, “You’ll have a chance to see yourself”.

With glee.

186 ObserverArt  Jun 19, 2014 6:31:30pm

re: #181 Charles Johnson

“The station keeps cutting me off. I don’t know why.”

This, ladies and gentlemen, is the right wing asshole in its natural habitat.

Pugnacious and a drama queen.

187 darthstar  Jun 19, 2014 6:33:19pm
188 TedStriker  Jun 19, 2014 6:33:25pm

re: #39 Romantic Heretic

How very fucking true. Even things like Saving Private Ryan, which at least tried to accurately portray combat, still had a strongly romantic feel to it. So it’s not the least bit surprising people haven’t the slightest idea of what war is, how it works and how horrible it is.

Withal there are a few bits of American culture that try to get it right.

Band of Brothers did an excellent job. There wasn’t much romance in that.

Another, perhaps not popular but one I enjoy, is Hammer’s Slammers. Written by David Drake, who served a year in country with the Black Horse, it catches what it is like to be at the sharp end.

At any rate, I wish more people read more Sun Tzu and less von Clausewitz.

I’m not certain a lot of those pushing for another war somewhere can even spell war, never mind be aware of the consequences of it.

Oh, I think that most of them knows exactly what war’s consequences are; they just know that they (or their kids) will never be ‘in the shit’, because being sent halfway around the world to die or be maimed for their country is apparently for
the poor, the stupid, and those without political connections.

189 Charles Johnson  Jun 19, 2014 6:34:02pm

I think I may need to re-watch the final episode of Fargo. Because it was really good.

190 FemNaziBitch  Jun 19, 2014 6:34:03pm

191 dog philosopher  Jun 19, 2014 6:35:21pm

re: #166 Pie-onist Overlord

Also too: Juice don’t believe that non-Juice are all going to Hell.

i find it difficult to put this point over with many christians, since they have had it pounded into their heads that the main point of religion is to separate the winners from the losers

192 Pie-onist Overlord  Jun 19, 2014 6:37:29pm

re: #172 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

Agenda 21 as seen by the wingnuts:

[Embedded image]

I don’t see any Blah or Asian at that table.

193 Justanotherhuman  Jun 19, 2014 6:38:03pm

Finally, some modicum of justice. After 25 yrs.

5 Exonerated in Central Park Jogger Case Are to Settle Suit for $40 Million

nytimes.com

“The proposed settlement averages roughly $1 million for each year of imprisonment for the men. That amount would suggest that the city was poised to pay one of the men, Kharey Wise, who spent about 13 years in prison, more than it has in any wrongful conviction case.

“The other four men — Kevin Richardson, Antron McCray, Yusef Salaam and Raymond Santana Jr. — served about seven years in prison.

“The lawsuit had accused the city’s police and prosecutors of false arrest, malicious prosecution and a racially motivated conspiracy to deprive the men of their civil rights, allegations which the administration of Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg denied and fought vigorously for more than a decade in federal court.”

All of these men were 14-16 yrs of age at the time of the crime and were tried over and over again in the press.

“…Matias Reyes, a convicted rapist and murderer, who had confessed to the attack.”

194 Charles Johnson  Jun 19, 2014 6:38:09pm

MOTT THE HOOPLE - All The Young Dudes [ HQ remaster audio ]

Youtube Video

195 Pie-onist Overlord  Jun 19, 2014 6:42:06pm

re: #176 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

I have found that I can’t add Tweets to a collection from someone who has blocked me (like Janie Johnson or Glenn Greenwald)

196 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jun 19, 2014 6:42:50pm

re: #193 Justanotherhuman

And ppl still defend capital punishment.

197 Rightwingconspirator  Jun 19, 2014 6:43:04pm

That music was a bit of a reminder of my youth. But then these headlines are creeping me out as familiar from those days.

Obama Sends 300 More ‘Advisors’ to Iraq

U.S. officials said to be pushing for the removal of Iraq’s leader

198 Gus  Jun 19, 2014 6:47:11pm
199 TedStriker  Jun 19, 2014 6:52:40pm

re: #96 Gus

Israel- We believe that the United States and Israel share a special long-standing relationship based on shared values, a mutual commitment to a republican form of government, and a strategic alliance that benefits both nations. Our foreign policy with Israel should reflect the right of sovereign nations to govern themselves and have self-determination. In our diplomatic dealings with Israel, we encourage the continuation of peace talks between Israel and the Palestinians, but oppose pressuring Israel to compromise their sovereignty or security. Our policy is inspired by God’s biblical promise to bless those who bless Israel and curse those who curse Israel and we further invite other nations and organizations to enjoy the benefits of that promise, so that when Israel gets attacked in the End Times, we True Christians can enjoy that sweet, sweet Rapture.

FTFT…

200 BlueSpotinAL  Jun 19, 2014 6:53:38pm

re: #163 jaunte

[Embedded content]

No wonder Obama is behind on building the FEMA camps. Obama is doing everything himself, including weaponizing the USPTO. Kind of like this guy: (bonus: Iran and Iraq get mentioned!)

screen.yahoo.com

201 TedStriker  Jun 19, 2014 6:56:38pm

re: #107 teleskiguy

OK, have to agree with this one.

They only say that because only the poors, the brown, and the politically unconnected will tend to be adversely affected; rich GOP WASPs tend to skate (or, at least, get off real light) on DUIs.

202 FemNaziBitch  Jun 19, 2014 6:57:44pm

Please, share your opinion here.

203 TedStriker  Jun 19, 2014 7:06:09pm

re: #152 jaunte

Even Steve Munisteri, the TX GOP chairman, is backing away from it.

Heh.

Enjoy your fucked-up Frankenstein of a platform there, TX GOPers.

204 TedStriker  Jun 19, 2014 7:06:53pm

re: #158 dog philosopher

9. A free enterprise society unencumbered by government interference or subsidies.

so they’ll support ending “farm” and oil company subsidies?

Of course not.

205 Romantic Heretic  Jun 19, 2014 7:12:19pm

re: #146 wrenchwench

I recognize that tunnel. It runs between the Spadina station on the Bloor-Danforth subway line and the Spadina station on the Yonge-University line.

206 Romantic Heretic  Jun 19, 2014 7:21:47pm

re: #188 TedStriker

Oh, I think that most of them knows exactly what war’s consequences are; they just know that they (or their kids) will never be ‘in the shit’, because being sent halfway around the world to die or be maimed for their country is apparently for
the poor, the stupid, and those without political connections.

As Heinlein pointed out, “Roman mothers used to tell their sons, ‘Come back with your shield or on it. Later this custom declined. So did Rome.’”

207 RealityBasedSteve  Jun 19, 2014 7:22:10pm

re: #194 Charles Johnson

MOTT THE HOOPLE - All The Young Dudes [ HQ remaster audio ]

[Embedded content]

Thank you!!!!! Hadn’t heard that in forever. Watching the video however, I’m not sure that the drummer was on the same planet as the rest of the band. (if you know what I mean)

RBS

208 TedStriker  Jun 19, 2014 7:24:45pm

re: #175 dog philosopher

judeo-christian

not sure why repeating this meaningless incantation makes it ok for them to flagrantly violate the strong anti-establishmentarian principles of the founding fathers

It’s a beard for their Dominionism, nothing more.

209 The War TARDIS  Jun 19, 2014 8:57:32pm

re: #109 Gus

I would argue that the Scandinavian states are more exceptional than us.


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