Glenn Greenwald Argues That Private Companies Have No Right to Censor Genocidal Incitement

Yes, he really did
Weird • Views: 28,218

Today, MSNBC’s Ronan Farrow published an opinion piece in the Washington Post calling on companies like YouTube, Facebook and Twitter to do more to stop terrorists from inciting violence. To make his case, Farrow cited the incitements to genocide by Rwandan media that led to a horrific bloodbath 20 years ago.

“The graves are only half empty; who will help us fill them?” Twenty years ago, that rallying cry on Rwandan radio helped explode ethnic enmity into one of history’s worst atrocities. In today’s Iraq, another vicious conflict between a formerly-empowered ethnic minority and a long-subjugated majority is causing the deaths of thousands. At its heart is another mass media appeal to bloodlust on radio’s modern-day equivalent: social media. And this time, the world may have a chance to stop what it failed to in Rwanda.

The Sunni Islamic State insurgents, now locked in a deadly struggle with Iraq’s Shiite majority, excel online. They command a plethora of official and unofficial channels on Facebook, Twitter, and YouTube. “And kill them wherever you find them,” commands one recent propaganda reel of firefights and bound hostages, contorting a passage from the Koran. “Take up arms, take up arms, O soldiers of the Islamic State. And fight, fight!” adds another, featuring a sermon from the group’s leader, Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi. The material is often slickly produced, like “The Clanging of Swords IV,” a glossy, feature-length film replete with slow-motion action scenes. Much of it is available in English, directly targeting the recruits with Western passports that have become one of the organization’s more dangerous assets. And almost all of it appeals to the young: Photoshops of Islamic State fighters and their grizzly massacres with video game-savvy captions like, “This is our Call of Duty.”

But officials at social media companies are leery of adjudicating what should be taken down and what should be left alone. “One person’s terrorist is another person’s freedom fighter,” one senior executive tells me on condition of anonymity. Making that call is “not something we’d want to do.”

This is a good argument, and one that I’ve made many times at LGF; private companies like Facebook need to do more to prevent the spread of hate speech by users of their services, especially when it involves incitements to violence or genocide. These kinds of restrictions are the purview of private companies to impose, not governments, and especially not the US government.

But Farrow’s op-ed drew the attention of the all-seeing eye of civil libertarian hero Glenn Greenwald, who immediately attacked Farrow with his usual obsessions: the US and Israel.

Farrow responded:

And it was at this point that Glenn Greenwald tipped over into what can only be described as a right wing authoritarian position:

Consider what Greenwald is advocating here; he’s actually saying that private companies should not be allowed to determine what types of “political ideas” they disseminate.

Leaving aside the absurdity of calling genocidal incitement “political ideas,” this is exactly counter to the First Amendment of the US Constitution, which makes it very clear that only private companies should be able to restrict the types of speech they publish.

So who should decide these issues, if not private companies? Is Greenwald actually arguing that the US government should censor hateful or genocidal incitement? Well, it’s hard to know, because when pressed on the issue he simply decided to attack Farrow again as a mouthpiece for Israel — a very weird argument indeed.

As usual, Greenwald sleazes his way out of directly confronting the issue with non sequitur attacks like this. But his statement that he thinks private companies should have no right to decide what types of speech they promote is very revealing, indeed — because it’s exactly opposite to the usual libertarian line of argument.

In his haste to attack one of his enemies, Greenwald argued himself into an unconstitutional corner, and then tried to deflect the argument rather than defend it.

A classic performance by the Mighty Greenwald.

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155 comments
1 Kragar  Jul 11, 2014 11:24:50am

The 1st Amendment gives you the Freedom of Speech, not the freedom to force people to give you a platform to speak from.

2 Pie-onist Overlord  Jul 11, 2014 11:26:31am

Glenn would interpret “Freedom of Speech” as requiring all vendors to sell his book, just like wingnuts insist that Costco MUST sell Dinesh D’Souza’s book.

3 Targetpractice  Jul 11, 2014 11:28:11am

One of the hallmarks of faux libertarians is the belief that the First Amendment guarantees them a platform upon which to spew their inanities, especially if that platform is privately owned. Only thing missing from Greenwald’s latest wig-out is whining that nobody has a right to tell those inciting genocide that they’re wrong, because they’re a “right to their opinion.”

4 Kragar  Jul 11, 2014 11:29:57am

I made a friend:

I’m still trying to figure out how he got “racist misogynist” from my cake remark

5 Pie-onist Overlord  Jul 11, 2014 11:30:15am

re: #3 Targetpractice

One of the hallmarks of faux libertarians is the belief that the First Amendment guarantees them a platform upon which to spew their inanities, especially if that platform is privately owned. Only thing missing from Greenwald’s latest wig-out is whining that nobody has a right to tell those inciting genocide that they’re wrong, because they’re a “right to their opinion.”

Well now, he wouldn’t condone the suppression of anyone’s free speech, which BTW also includes the freedom of his cult followers to stalk, bully, abuse and harass opponents.

6 Targetpractice  Jul 11, 2014 11:30:22am

re: #4 Kragar

I made a friend:

[Embedded content]

I’m still trying to figure out how he got “racist misogynist” from my cake remark

You’re a liberal, it’s automatically assumed.

///

7 Pie-onist Overlord  Jul 11, 2014 11:30:43am

re: #4 Kragar

I made a friend:

[Embedded content]

I’m still trying to figure out how he got “racist misogynist” from my cake remark

8 b.d.  Jul 11, 2014 11:32:22am

GLENN IS THE BIGGEST CENSOR OF THEM ALL! FREE THE SNOWDEN DOCUMENTS!!

9 BadExampleMan  Jul 11, 2014 11:32:32am

re: #4 Kragar

I’m still trying to figure out how he got “racist misogynist” from my cake remark

It’s just teatard boilerplate. Much easier than thinking.

10 Pie-onist Overlord  Jul 11, 2014 11:34:06am

re: #9 BadExampleMan

It’s just teatard boilerplate. Much easier than thinking.

HURR HURR WHAT ABOUT ALL TEH ANTI-WHITE RACISM!!!!! TEH WHITE MANS IS TEH VICTIMS OF RACISTS!!!!!

11 Timothy Watson  Jul 11, 2014 11:34:56am

re: #4 Kragar

I made a friend:

[Embedded content]

I’m still trying to figure out how he got “racist misogynist” from my cake remark

It’s kinda like how I was immediately attacked on Twitter as a racist by a prominent Virginia conservative blogger and consultant after criticizing E.W. Jackson when was nominated for Lieutenant Governor by the VA GOP.

12 Pie-onist Overlord  Jul 11, 2014 11:34:56am

Another Dudebro unfollowed after this horrific blood libel graphic.

13 Kragar  Jul 11, 2014 11:38:07am
14 Pie-onist Overlord  Jul 11, 2014 11:38:08am

Joshua Swearingen is full of teh Juicy Craziness

15 Targetpractice  Jul 11, 2014 11:39:33am

re: #13 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Gives new meaning to the phrase “dead cat bounce.”

16 BadExampleMan  Jul 11, 2014 11:39:41am
17 Kragar  Jul 11, 2014 11:41:36am

re: #15 Targetpractice

Gives new meaning to the phrase “dead cat bounce.”

“Its not like bleh people were going to be watching us anyways. WHAT! Bleh people like basketball! You can’t call us racists for saying that!”
///

18 Testy Toad T  Jul 11, 2014 11:42:20am

Libertarians come at their entire sociopolitical worldview from the infantile perspective of “I want to be able to do whatever the fuck I want”, without even the barest consideration of what implications that might have when others act on those same presumed rights.

There is nothing new under the sun.

19 Kragar  Jul 11, 2014 11:45:11am

re: #18 Testy Toad T

Libertarians come at their entire sociopolitical worldview from the infantile perspective of “I want to be able to do whatever the fuck I want”, without even the barest consideration of what implications that might have when others act on those same presumed rights.

There is nothing new under the sun.

Libertarianism works as long as everyone has complete knowledge of all things and correctly decides the best course of action to take in every situation.

For some reason, they just can’t seem to get it to work.

20 Backwoods_Sleuth  Jul 11, 2014 11:46:16am
21 Targetpractice  Jul 11, 2014 11:46:36am

re: #19 Kragar

Libertarianism works as long as everyone has complete knowledge of all things and correctly decides the best course of action to take in every situation.

For some reason, they just can’t seem to get it to work.

But they’re the first to tell you that communism can’t work because it goes against human nature.

22 Pie-onist Overlord  Jul 11, 2014 11:47:21am

Dudebro is butthurt

23 Testy Toad T  Jul 11, 2014 11:47:46am

re: #19 Kragar

Libertarianism works as long as everyone has complete knowledge of all things and correctly decides the best course of action to take in every situation.

For some reason, they just can’t seem to get it to work.

And everyone is fundamentally good. That’s a critical component. They are acting both in favor of the individual good and (implicitly) the greater good.

Name any system that fails to work in such a fairy-land.

24 Bulworth  Jul 11, 2014 11:48:36am

re:
#13

Thanks, Obama

25 Pie-onist Overlord  Jul 11, 2014 11:48:43am

Not even getting into a conversation with Mr. Swearingen, just blocked & muted.

26 Kragar  Jul 11, 2014 11:48:47am

re: #21 Targetpractice

But they’re the first to tell you that communism can’t work because it goes against human nature.

Its almost like no one system works 100% efficiently on its own, and that a system which makes compromises seeking to utilize the best traits from various systems of governance, regulated by checks and balances, might be the best solution.

27 Kragar  Jul 11, 2014 11:50:15am

re: #23 Testy Toad T

And everyone is fundamentally good. That’s a critical component. They are acting both in favor of the individual good and (implicitly) the greater good.

Name any system that fails to work in such a fairy-land.

“If we all practiced voluntaryism, and never forced anyone to do anything, then everything would be just fine.”

And we could all get high on unicorn farts and get drunk on rainbow dew every night.

28 Backwoods_Sleuth  Jul 11, 2014 11:50:59am

British ‘Harry Potter’ actor David Legeno found dead in U.S. park

(Reuters) - British actor David Legeno, who appeared as a werewolf in the “Harry Potter” films, was found dead by hikers in a remote area of Death Valley, California police said on Friday.
The Inyo County Sheriff’s Office said the body of Legeno, 50, was found early on Sunday morning and a helicopter was used to transport it from the area.
“It appears that Legeno died of heat related issues, but the Inyo County coroner will determine the final cause of death. There are no signs of foul play,” the sheriff’s office said in a statement.
The burly, London-born, professional boxer and martial arts expert played Fenrir Greyback the ferocious werewolf in several of the “Harry Potter” films. He also appeared on television and in a string of movies, including “Snow White and the Huntsman,” “Snatch,” “Centurion” and “Batman Begins.”

29 wrenchwench  Jul 11, 2014 11:51:39am

The contradiction is they want to do what they want, but they want the business owner to have total freedom with his business too, which gives the business owner the power to shut down the dudebro, I mean terrorist.

30 Charles Johnson  Jul 11, 2014 11:54:56am

re: #29 wrenchwench

The contradiction is they want to do what they want, but they want the business owner to have total freedom with his business too, which gives the business owner the power to shut down the dudebro, I mean terrorist.

Exactly - it’s a typically incoherent libertarian argument: people should have absolute freedom of speech with no restrictions, but owners of corporations should have absolute freedom to run their corporations how they want.

31 Kragar  Jul 11, 2014 11:56:46am

The Texas Observer’s Rachel Pearson noted, children from Guatemala — where vaccines are provided free of charge by the government’s universal health care system — are more likely to be vaccinated against those diseases than children in Texas, where the rate of parents who “opt out” of vaccinations citing “reasons of conscience” has increased every year since 2003.

Moreover, claims by Fox News and Breitbart News contributor Dr. Elizabeth Lee Vliet that diseases, like the measles, that have been “eradicated” in the U.S. are being “carried across the border by this tsunami of illegals” have proven factually untrue.

According to the World Health Organization, there have been no reported cases of measles in Guatemala or Honduras since 1990, whereas anti-vaccination efforts in the United States have led to multiple outbreaks, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

32 Kragar  Jul 11, 2014 11:58:29am

re: #30 Charles Johnson

Exactly - it’s a typically incoherent libertarian argument: people should have absolute freedom of speech with no restrictions, but owners of corporations should have absolute freedom to run their corporations how they want.

“We believe in the absolute power of the Free Market”

“Did you hear Costco stopped stocking a poorly selling Conservative book to make room for a more profitable item on the shelves?”

“ITS JUST LIKE THE NAZIS!”

33 BadExampleMan  Jul 11, 2014 11:58:35am

Guys, we got a live one here!

34 Pie-onist Overlord  Jul 11, 2014 12:02:03pm

re: #33 BadExampleMan

[Embedded content]

Guys, we got a live one here!

I hate Twitter nazis.

35 Randall Gross  Jul 11, 2014 12:02:14pm

So GG shouldn’t be able to stop us if we want to post pro Israel articles at The Intercept.

36 Pie-onist Overlord  Jul 11, 2014 12:02:18pm

WTFITS

37 Pie-onist Overlord  Jul 11, 2014 12:03:14pm

Yeah like the NSA has the resources to listen to 80% of all phone calls. Are you fucking kidding me? That would have to be THE. MOST. BORING. JOB. EVER.

38 RealityBasedSteve  Jul 11, 2014 12:05:31pm

re: #31 Kragar
Moreover, claims by Fox News and Breitbart News contributor Dr. Elizabeth Lee Vliet that diseases, like the measles, that have been “eradicated” in the U.S. are being “carried across the border by this tsunami of illegals” have proven factually untrue.

[Embedded content]

Where is my shocked face…. I know I left it around here someplace….

RBS

39 Shiplord Kirel  Jul 11, 2014 12:06:12pm

Steven Spielberg Criticized for the “Triceratops He Just Slaughtered”

As far as I can tell, this is real (the messages, not the dino) and the posters are quite serious.

40 Bulworth  Jul 11, 2014 12:07:52pm

re:
#31

According to the World Health Organization, there have been no reported cases of measles in Guatemala or Honduras since 1990

Hurr hurr WHO is the New World Order and wants to take over US Sovereingty and are guns——bias!!~!11

41 Ace-o-aces  Jul 11, 2014 12:08:48pm

Greenwald says he doesn’t want ANY restrictions on political speech. Wait, didn’t he block Charles from his twitter feed?

42 Bulworth  Jul 11, 2014 12:09:02pm

re:
#36

Wait, so how does listening to all our emails accomplish total population control?

43 Pie-onist Overlord  Jul 11, 2014 12:12:51pm

re: #42 Bulworth

re:
#36

Wait, so how does listening to all our emails accomplish total population control?

They’d have to employ half the population to listen to the other half’s phone calls.

44 Kragar  Jul 11, 2014 12:14:03pm

re: #42 Bulworth

re:
#36

Wait, so how does listening to all our emails accomplish total population control?

So I was emailing back and forth to my mom about a soup recipe when this mysterious email with no sender or valid email address jumped in and suggested we use turnips instead of potatoes because they’d have better consistency.

It was right. Thanks NSA!
/

45 aagcobb  Jul 11, 2014 12:14:32pm

re: #13 Kragar

[Embedded content]

To be fair, who could’ve known James was going back?

46 calochortus  Jul 11, 2014 12:14:51pm

re: #37 Pie-onist Overlord

Yeah like the NSA has the resources to listen to 80% of all phone calls. Are you fucking kidding me? That would have to be THE. MOST. BORING. JOB. EVER.

Years ago I read a piece by someone who had worked for the FBI back in the day when tapping a phone meant sitting in a van (or maybe a little room) somewhere and just listening to all the phone calls. They had to tap the phones of a suspected crime figure who had 3 teenage daughters. Much boredom ensued.

47 Pie-onist Overlord  Jul 11, 2014 12:16:56pm

re: #46 calochortus

Years ago I read a piece by someone who had worked for the FBI back in the day when tapping a phone meant sitting in a van (or maybe a little room) somewhere and just listening to all the phone calls. They had to tap the phones of a suspected crime figure who had 3 teenage daughters. Much boredom ensued.

There was a German movie a number of years ago, about a Stasi agent whose job was listening to phone calls. I didn’t watch the entire movie, it was too boring.

48 aagcobb  Jul 11, 2014 12:18:32pm

re: #28 Backwoods_Sleuth

British ‘Harry Potter’ actor David Legeno found dead in U.S. park

There have been way too many people about my age dying lately: Gandolfini, Hoffman, and this guy, for example.

49 Eventual Carrion  Jul 11, 2014 12:19:42pm

re: #42 Bulworth

re:
#36

Wait, so how does listening to all our emails accomplish total population control?

I know what you did last summer!

50 Eventual Carrion  Jul 11, 2014 12:20:18pm

re: #43 Pie-onist Overlord

They’d have to employ half the population to listen to the other half’s phone calls.

And then the other half to listen to the other half.

51 aagcobb  Jul 11, 2014 12:20:50pm

re: #37 Pie-onist Overlord

Yeah like the NSA has the resources to listen to 80% of all phone calls. Are you fucking kidding me? That would have to be THE. MOST. BORING. JOB. EVER.

Imagine having to read the typical texts between teenage girls. I think I’d slit my wrists.

52 Bulworth  Jul 11, 2014 12:22:57pm

re:
#51

Actually, being made to read the typical texts between teenage girls 24/7 is what awaits us all in Hell.

53 Dr. Matt  Jul 11, 2014 12:23:15pm

It’s coming….wait for it…..

54 Romantic Heretic  Jul 11, 2014 12:23:28pm

re: #4 Kragar

I made a friend:

[Embedded content]

I’m still trying to figure out how he got “racist misogynist” from my cake remark

Because everyone that disagrees with him has to be a racist misogynist. There is no other reason for having a difference of opinion from him.

55 Justanotherhuman  Jul 11, 2014 12:26:39pm

Isn’t that par for GG, though? He twists everything. And he agrees with Duncan Black.

Retweeted by Glenn Greenwald
Atrios @Atrios * 22h

is a subject i rarely weigh in on, but reporting on current situation in israel is beyond parody

56 Kragar  Jul 11, 2014 12:27:39pm
57 piratedan  Jul 11, 2014 12:30:10pm

re: #56 Kragar

it’s because the NSA shared its lists with a few direct mail retailers…..

58 Iwouldprefernotto  Jul 11, 2014 12:32:20pm

The only reason I want to see Greenwald on trial is that someone cross examine his stupid statements. Not going to happen, but I can dream.

59 1Peter G1  Jul 11, 2014 12:37:20pm

Hmm. How could one go about changing Glenn’s mind? I’m guessing if there were posts identifying his location and the location of any friends or loved ones, accompanied by urgent incitement to harm these people and him personally, we would soon hear about another equally urgent censorship exemption that requires instant enforcement. For that is Glenn in a nutshell.

60 Justanotherhuman  Jul 11, 2014 12:38:22pm

Donated 90% of my “library” to the local thrift store. Only kept a box of classics/favorites. Trying to cull the non-essentials before we move, and I dread it, ‘cause I’m already tired. : <

61 Bulworth  Jul 11, 2014 12:41:06pm

re:
#60

They can have all my books when they pry them from my cold dead fingers.

63 Targetpractice  Jul 11, 2014 12:44:15pm

So the “prayer rug” that Breitbart was hyperventilating over was nothing of the sort and the kids that Fox News are portraying as plague rats are actually better vaccinated than American kids.

You’d almost suspect that the wingnuts are getting worked up over nothing again…

64 Justanotherhuman  Jul 11, 2014 12:48:11pm

re: #61 Bulworth

re:
#60

They can have all my books when they pry them from my cold dead fingers.

I don’t wanna move them—even downstairs. And I know I will buy more.

65 Bulworth  Jul 11, 2014 12:50:18pm

re:
#63

But they will never acknowledge, let alone apologize for, putting this stuff out there to further poison the information stream. Rather these “facts” will continue to be trumpeted by their readers and viewers for weeks, months, years, till at some point they join the pile of claims that are “disputed”, “there are differences of opinion on these things, so we’ll present all sides”, etc.

66 J A P  Jul 11, 2014 12:50:25pm

The was an interesting article on The Daily Beast a few days ago titled “You, Too, Could Be a Homicidal Zealot.” It was written by a psychiatrist who worked with the NYU/Bellevue Program for Survivors of Torture.

A couple of factors, both internal and environmental, are at play when such rapacious violence spreads like a brushfire. Crowd psychology allows would-be interveners to let the other (nonexistent) guy do the right thing, while stoking the aggressive ids to join the mob. Fear, plain and simple, can incite swift violence, too. If a critical mass of people is afraid or is convinced to fear, the signal is contagious. Studies have shown that just the look of fear on someone’s face can induce the feeling in the viewer. And when sufficiently afraid, we are capable of committing acts we believe we are incapable of committing. How many Americans were (or still are) in full support of torturing people they did not know? We were told to fear these hooded men and so many of us threw away our 9/10/2001 consciences. Others craved revenge. “Justified” bloodlust is a powerful trigger. And it needn’t be a 9/11 to 9/12 kind of revenge. “Your great-grandfather killed my great-grandfather” can also do the trick.

Sadly, it takes very little for any person, including you—yes, you, the person reading this—to become savage.

He ends the article with

Our present is no more murderous, our terrorists no more vicious, our witnesses no more cowardly. But now we cannot escape the view. Maybe that’s for the best.

I recently started reading his book Suspicious Minds: How Culture Shapes Madness. That book is focused more on the delusions of people most people would consider mentally ill rather than on the opinions that go against the facts of people who are generally considered normal. In fact, in an early chapter where he discusses the question of what is a delusion, he gives birthers as an example of a tenaciously held idea that is impervious to facts that is not considered a delusion indicative of a mental illness.

Although there might be some positive sides of being aware that the violence is going on, he doesn’t in the article, which is short, consider the obvious downside. He does mention Rwanda, but he makes not mention of the role of the media in the genocide.

I tend to be something of an extremist when it comes to free speech and for that reason I tend to oppose hate speech laws. However, I think a line can be drawn at the point of incitement to violence. The U.S. has some of the most liberal laws regarding speech yet we’ve always drawn a line at incitement to violence. That’s a necessary line.

67 Bulworth  Jul 11, 2014 12:51:42pm

re:
#64

Oh I don’t blame you. I hope that day for me doesn’t come where I have to part with most of them if or when I eventually have to downsize.

68 J A P  Jul 11, 2014 12:53:08pm

re: #47 Pie-onist Overlord

Hey! That’s one of my favorite movies!

69 Justanotherhuman  Jul 11, 2014 12:54:12pm

“…yet we’ve always drawn a line at incitement to violence. That’s a necessary line.”

I think we’ve crossed that line. Many times in the past and we’ve already seen examples in the present.

70 Gus  Jul 11, 2014 12:57:04pm
71 Targetpractice  Jul 11, 2014 12:57:13pm

re: #65 Bulworth

re:
#63

But they will never acknowledge, let alone apologize for, putting this stuff out there to further poison the information stream. Rather these “facts” will continue to be trumpeted by their readers and viewers for weeks, months, years, till at some point they join the pile of claims that are “disputed”, “there are differences of opinion on these things, so we’ll present all sides”, etc.

Like so much else, it’s about attacking the President while also promoting anti-immigrant hysteria. Turning a very real humanitarian crisis into just another “flood” of illegals looking for a hand-out. When they’re not spinning them as plague rats, they’re spreading rumors about these kids belonging to drug gangs or being terrorist recruits who are smuggling in suicide bombs. Not much difference between this shit and the stuff you hear from far-right groups over in Europe.

72 Kragar  Jul 11, 2014 12:57:52pm

The good news, GW just released a set full of some really nice Space Wolf stuff.

The bad news is they packaged it along with a bunch of Ork stuff I’ll never use. I need to find an Ork player.

73 Testy Toad T  Jul 11, 2014 12:58:17pm

Amusingly…

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_speech_by_country#Brazil

In Brazil, freedom of expression is a Constitutional right. Article Five of the Constitution of Brazil establishes that the “expression of thought is free, anonymity being forbidden”. Furthermore, the “expression of intellectual, artistic, scientific, and communications activities is free, independently of censorship or license”.

However, there are legal provisions criminalizing the desecration of religious artifacts at the time of worship, hate speech, racism, defamation, calumny, and libel. Brazilian law also forbids “unjust and grave threats”.

74 J A P  Jul 11, 2014 1:05:19pm

re: #50 Eventual Carrion

That was pretty much the situation in East Germany.

To ensure that the people would become and remain submissive, East German communist leaders saturated their realm with more spies than had any other totalitarian government in recent history. The Soviet Union’s KGB employed about 480,000 full-time agents to oversee a nation of 280 million, which means there was one agent per 5,830 citizens. Using Wiesenthal’s figures for the Nazi Gestapo, there was one officer for 2,000 people. The ratio for the Stasi was one secret policeman per 166 East Germans. When the regular informers are added, these ratios become much higher: In the Stasi’s case, there would have been at least one spy watching every 66 citizens! When one adds in the estimated numbers of part-time snoops, the result is nothing short of monstrous: one informer per 6.5 citizens. It would not have been unreasonable to assume that at least one Stasi informer was present in any party of ten or twelve dinner guests

source: Stasi: The Untold Story of the East German Secret Police

75 CuriousLurker  Jul 11, 2014 1:07:00pm

Drive-by cuteness break:

76 J A P  Jul 11, 2014 1:08:51pm

re: #51 aagcobb

Yeah, because texts between teenage boys are so much more interesting.

77 dog philosopher  Jul 11, 2014 1:08:54pm

i think direct incitement to violence, especially murder, is not protected speech in as far as i know

78 Backwoods_Sleuth  Jul 11, 2014 1:10:46pm

hey, it worked for Dick Cheney!

79 wrenchwench  Jul 11, 2014 1:10:53pm

Mmmmmmmmmm, mastodon.

80 Justanotherhuman  Jul 11, 2014 1:11:53pm

TEPCO thinks people are going to believe them?

NHK reports: TEPCO is checking for any new issues at their nuclear power plant after magnitude 6.8 quake in Fukushima - @KjeldDuits
see original on twitter.com

TEPCO says no reports of abnormalities at nuclear plant in Fukushima after 6.8 earthquake off coast - @BNONews
see original on twitter.com

81 Lidane  Jul 11, 2014 1:12:02pm

Oh joy. Idiot stalker clogging my Twitter mentions with a HURR HURR HAV A CLU LIBTARD post.

Their big revelation? That Charles had a post about Rachael Ray back during the whole outcry over her “terror scarf”. You know, because I’ve been living under a fucking rock for the last 10 years and I’m somehow ignorant of the fact that LGF used to be a very different place before Charles ran screaming from the crazies.

Muted, blocked, and reported. I don’t have time for these stalker assholes. :P

82 aagcobb  Jul 11, 2014 1:12:04pm

re: #76 J A P

Yeah, because texts between teenage boys are so much more interesting.

No, but probably grosser and less voluminous, and yes, I know I am outrageously stereotyping teenage boys and girls here.

83 Kragar  Jul 11, 2014 1:12:19pm

re: #79 wrenchwench

[Embedded content]

Mmmmmmmmmm, mastodon.

Unpossible! The world is only 5000 years old.

84 Eventual Carrion  Jul 11, 2014 1:12:30pm

re: #78 Backwoods_Sleuth

hey, it worked for Dick Cheney!

[Embedded content]

And after an exhaustive search I have found the perfect candidate, ME!

85 dog philosopher  Jul 11, 2014 1:14:00pm

re: #79 wrenchwench

Mmmmmmmmmm, mastodon.

i read that once or twice somebody dug up a frozen ice age woolly mammoth and they cooked it and served it up at a banquet

86 Eventual Carrion  Jul 11, 2014 1:14:11pm

re: #80 Justanotherhuman

TEPCO thinks people are going to believe them?

NHK reports: TEPCO is checking for any new issues at their nuclear power plant after magnitude 6.8 quake in Fukushima - @KjeldDuits
see original on twitter.com

TEPCO says no reports of abnormalities at nuclear plant in Fukushima after 6.8 earthquake off coast - @BNONews
see original on twitter.com

Well, nothing any more screwed up than was already screwed up.

87 Patricia Kayden  Jul 11, 2014 1:14:43pm

re: #31 Kragar

Remember when former CNN host (now Fox News host) Lou Dobbs pushed the story that undocumented immigrants were bringing leprosy into the US?

nytimes.com

Good times.

88 Backwoods_Sleuth  Jul 11, 2014 1:16:21pm
89 wrenchwench  Jul 11, 2014 1:16:58pm

re: #85 dog philosopher

i read that once or twice somebody dug up a frozen ice age woolly mammoth and they cooked it and served it up at a banquet

I bet it was good the first time.

90 Gus  Jul 11, 2014 1:17:17pm

Science!

91 Patricia Kayden  Jul 11, 2014 1:18:05pm

re: #39 Shiplord Kirel

That’s one of the funniest things I’ve ever seen. Wow. Helps to know that dinosaurs are extinct, I guess.

92 brennant  Jul 11, 2014 1:18:06pm

re: #88 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

She’s on vacation AGAIN?!
/

93 lawhawk  Jul 11, 2014 1:19:05pm

Then follow through for the full thing… It’s worth a read (especially at Ben Shapiro’s expense).

94 Justanotherhuman  Jul 11, 2014 1:19:18pm

Misbahuddin Ahmed found guilty of 2 terrorism charges

cbc.ca

“Crown lawyers said during the trial that Ahmed was a “committed jihadist” with an eye on potential Canadian targets, pointing to a bag in his basement they alleged held bomb-making materials.

“Ahmed and his defence said during the trial that he was trying to stop a planned attack and was planning to destroy the contents of the bag, which he got from a known extremist.

“The jury heard how the RCMP had tapped Ahmed’s phone and videotaped him meeting with that same extremist, whose name is covered under a publication ban.”

Oh noes! Tapped phone! Publication ban!

Is there no place GG can go that he thinks he won’t be “surveilled”? Even Canada? ///

95 De Kolta Chair  Jul 11, 2014 1:21:30pm

re: #93 lawhawk

[Embedded content]

Then follow through for the full thing… It’s worth a read (especially at Ben Shapiro’s expense).

The photo they used is high-larious, but they usually are.

96 Charles Johnson  Jul 11, 2014 1:23:21pm
97 Jolo5309  Jul 11, 2014 1:24:46pm

re: #94 Justanotherhuman

Misbahuddin Ahmed found guilty of 2 terrorism charges

cbc.ca

“Crown lawyers said during the trial that Ahmed was a “committed jihadist” with an eye on potential Canadian targets, pointing to a bag in his basement they alleged held bomb-making materials.

“Ahmed and his defence said during the trial that he was trying to stop a planned attack and was planning to destroy the contents of the bag, which he got from a known extremist.

“The jury heard how the RCMP had tapped Ahmed’s phone and videotaped him meeting with that same extremist, whose name is covered under a publication ban.”

Oh noes! Tapped phone! Publication ban!

Is there no place GG can go that he thinks he won’t be “surveilled”? Even Canada? ///

We don’t have the free speech rights you do, we live in fear of a Mountie showing up at our house on a horse and demanding to be able to stay to keep an eye on what we say.

98 Lidane  Jul 11, 2014 1:29:56pm
99 Eventual Carrion  Jul 11, 2014 1:30:27pm

re: #97 Jolo5309

We don’t have the free speech rights you do, we live in fear of a Mountie showing up at our house on a horse and demanding to be able to stay to keep an eye on what we say.

Offer him a Moosehead and invite him in.

100 dog philosopher  Jul 11, 2014 1:30:40pm

re: #39 Shiplord Kirel

Steven Spielberg Criticized for the “Triceratops He Just Slaughtered”
[Embedded image]

[Embedded image]

As far as I can tell, this is real (the messages, not the dino) and the posters are quite serious.

he musta been where the dinosaurs are in the garden of edam

101 J A P  Jul 11, 2014 1:31:12pm

re: #82 aagcobb

Well, not only was I a teenage girl, but I was a pretty one. I know that’s socially inappropriate to say, but I was subjected to a huge amount of stereotyping when I was young. Every time I met a new person, especially a new teacher, a new professor in college or a new boss, I had to go about proving that I wasn’t a bimbo. You can’t imagine how tiring that is. Finally, I’m old enough to not be stereotyped as a bimbo and I have to fight again stereotypes of dull middle-aged women who sit around watching Real Housewives or Dancing with the Stars.

Now take your stereotypes and put anything else in it’s place besides gender.

Anyway, the sexism on this site is so toxic, I probably won’t stay around long. It’s not good for my own mental health to read comments like yours and to read your proud self-defense about how self-defense about how it’s okay to make sexist comments because they’re true. It’s just like the people who say they aren’t racist because blacks really are inferior.

So long all.

102 aagcobb  Jul 11, 2014 1:32:33pm

re: #100 dog philosopher

he musta been where the dinosaurs are in the garden of edam

I have to believe that many of the “outraged” posters are in on the joke.

104 Flying Squirrel Girl  Jul 11, 2014 1:32:53pm

re: #4 Kragar

Can’t bother to read the whole thread before responding!

When I was about 10 or 11, whenever me and my sister would fight, I would call her a fascist pig. I had no idea what it meant; I thought calling her a fascist pig was even worse than calling her a pig.

Your fan reminds me of 10-year old me.

105 alpuz  Jul 11, 2014 1:33:25pm

re: #89 wrenchwench

When reheating, don’t use the microwave. Place a piece of green leaf lettuce over the cut and toss it in the toaster oven at 375 or so. It’ll keep that arctic moisture in.

106 aagcobb  Jul 11, 2014 1:35:09pm

re: #101 J A P

Well, not only was I a teenage girl, but I was a pretty one. I know that’s socially inappropriate to say, but I was subjected to a huge amount of stereotyping when I was young. Every time I met a new person, especially a new teacher, a new professor in college or a new boss, I had to go about proving that I wasn’t a bimbo. You can’t imagine how tiring that is. Finally, I’m old enough to not be stereotyped as a bimbo and I have to fight again stereotypes of dull middle-aged women who sit around watching Real Housewives or Dancing with the Stars.

Now take your stereotypes and put anything else in it’s place besides gender.

Anyway, the sexism on this site is so toxic, I probably won’t stay around long. It’s not good for my own mental health to read comments like yours and to read your proud self-defense about how self-defense about how it’s okay to make sexist comments because they’re true. It’s just like the people who say they aren’t racist because blacks really are inferior.

So long all.

Jeesh, am I Rush Limbaugh? All I did was imply teenage girls texts would be really boring to read.

107 Minor_L  Jul 11, 2014 1:35:21pm

Greenwald doesn’t have a clue how the Constitution works. Even certain public fora can limit the speech that is allowed there (e.g., public schools) so long is it is viewpoint neutral and so long as they have not established themselves as an open forum. (Note that this doesn’t apply to your traditionally open fora like the “public square” or a public sidewalk.) Even assuming this is generally protected speech (incitement generally isn’t), this would be allowed even by a government actor with a limited or closed forum. So, why couldn’t Facebook and YouTube, to whom the Constitution does not even apply and who do limit their content, decide on a general ban on language that incites violence regardless of the speaker or their viewpoint? It’s not even controversial of a position to take.

He wants rights that don’t exist.

108 Varek Raith  Jul 11, 2014 1:35:29pm

So apparently Spielberg killed a dinosaur. People are mad.
Or something.
Silly internets.

109 b.d.  Jul 11, 2014 1:37:31pm

Stand your ground Spielberg!

110 Gus  Jul 11, 2014 1:38:27pm

re: #108 Varek Raith

So apparently Spielberg killed a dinosaur. People are mad.
Or something.
Silly internets.

Oh brother. Looking now.

nydailynews.com

111 Charles Johnson  Jul 11, 2014 1:38:34pm

Wut?

112 Minor_L  Jul 11, 2014 1:38:35pm

re: #4 Kragar

It’s okay to baselessly paint a liberal as misogynist or racist, but if you say that a conservative who has actually done or said something racist or misogynist is racist or misogynist, then you’re oppressing them and “playing the race and sexism card,” etc.

113 b.d.  Jul 11, 2014 1:38:42pm

re: #98 Lidane

[Embedded content]

Consider what happens if Speaker John Boehner wins his lawsuit against President Barack Obama: the court will order Obama to implement the Affordable Care Act’s employer mandate without further delay. Which, given that Obama only delayed the mandate until 2015 and court cases can take a long time to wind their way through the legal system, might mean the court will order Obama to do something he has already done.

vox.com

114 Iwouldprefernotto  Jul 11, 2014 1:39:06pm

re: #108 Varek Raith

So apparently Spielberg killed a dinosaur. People are mad.
Or something.
Silly internets.

I’m still mad at Speilberg for 1942.

115 Backwoods_Sleuth  Jul 11, 2014 1:39:36pm
116 Justanotherhuman  Jul 11, 2014 1:39:38pm

re: #103 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Should have put the horse head on Perry. : )

117 Kragar  Jul 11, 2014 1:39:39pm
118 Minor_L  Jul 11, 2014 1:39:40pm

re: #111 Charles Johnson

I haven’t noticed sexism here, and I’m pretty attuned to it.

119 alpuz  Jul 11, 2014 1:40:12pm

re: #108 Varek Raith

Silly internets.

Special effects(Trix) are for kids?

120 Decatur Deb  Jul 11, 2014 1:40:38pm

re: #97 Jolo5309

We don’t have the free speech rights you do, we live in fear of a Mountie showing up at our house on a horse and demanding to be able to stay to keep an eye on what we say.

Do you have to quarter him and the horse he rode in on?

121 Backwoods_Sleuth  Jul 11, 2014 1:40:57pm
122 wrenchwench  Jul 11, 2014 1:42:35pm

re: #103 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

I lol’d.

123 GlutenFreeJesus  Jul 11, 2014 1:43:34pm

re: #117 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Like the Devourerers in The Beastmaster. >:[

124 alpuz  Jul 11, 2014 1:43:40pm

re: #106 aagcobb

As are teenage boy’s texts & tweets. So are texts/tweets between teenage boys & girls… in my opinion. I get to monitor my own teenage son’s(16) tweets/texts occasionally and its about 90% snark.

125 aagcobb  Jul 11, 2014 1:46:09pm

Anyway, I wonder how many of the Cav fans who expressed deep contempt and hatred for LeBron are going to ardently love him now he’s back. Anyone seen any reaction yet? Are they thrilled or still angry at him for leaving in the first place?

126 Minor_L  Jul 11, 2014 1:46:45pm

re: #93 lawhawk

Good stuff. Also, I laughed out loud for reals when she called Michele Bachmann a “stupid penis.”

127 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Jul 11, 2014 1:48:06pm

re: #101 J A P

That was a pretty strong reaction to a very mild comment.

128 alpuz  Jul 11, 2014 1:48:30pm

re: #125 aagcobb

Heh, this was brought up by one of my acquaintances today. Will there be a bonfire fueled by Lebron jerseys in Miami?

129 Lidane  Jul 11, 2014 1:50:01pm
130 Varek Raith  Jul 11, 2014 1:52:54pm

“President Obama’s buzzed on suds great adventure.”

Lolwhut.

131 De Kolta Chair  Jul 11, 2014 1:53:47pm

re: #129 Lidane

[Embedded content]

Obviously, her ghost writer thinks he or she is the new S.J. Perelman.

My money’s on it being a he, and it goes without saying he’s not.

132 aagcobb  Jul 11, 2014 1:54:19pm

re: #127 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

That was a pretty strong reaction to a very mild comment.

We don’t get flounces very often anymore; I certainly didn’t expect to inspire one!

133 Gus  Jul 11, 2014 1:55:18pm

re: #130 Varek Raith

“President Obama’s buzzed on suds great adventure.”

Lolwhut.

Victoria Jackson? //

134 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Jul 11, 2014 1:56:08pm

re: #132 aagcobb

We don’t get flounces very often anymore; I certainly didn’t expect to inspire one!

To be fair, it was a mildly sexist thing to say. It was imperfect. Just saying ‘teenagers’ would have had the same effect without taking a swipe at women in particular.

But on the Scoville scale of fiery sexism, it’s down about an Anaheim.

135 Justanotherhuman  Jul 11, 2014 1:56:20pm

Charlie Haden, Legendary Jazz Bassist, Dies at 77

variety.com

“Charlie Haden, the pioneering jazz bassist who played with the likes of Ornette Coleman and Keith Jarrett before enjoying a decades-long solo career, died Friday at age 77 of a prolonged illness, according to his label, ECM.

“Praised by critic Martin Williams for his “almost lyric directness,” Haden achieved fame in the late ’50s as a member of saxophonist Ornette Coleman’s groundbreaking free jazz quartet. He would later be a key member of another celebrated ensemble, pianist Keith Jarrett’s mid-’70s unit.

“In 1969, Haden founded the politically charged Liberation Music Orchestra, a brew of radical politics and free ensemble playing, with pianist-composer Carla Bley. During the ’70s and ’80s, he recorded with Old and New Dreams, a cooperative quartet featuring other members of Coleman’s pathfinding ensembles.” More

136 Gus  Jul 11, 2014 1:56:20pm

Hmm. I seem to have missed a flounce of sorts.

137 Varek Raith  Jul 11, 2014 1:57:22pm

re: #133 Gus

Victoria Jackson? //

Palin.
It’s wonderfully incoherent.
See Lidane’s 129.

138 Gus  Jul 11, 2014 1:58:51pm

Need a nap. BBL.

139 Minor_L  Jul 11, 2014 1:59:18pm

re: #130 Varek Raith

There’s a line in the Big & Rich song “Save a Horse Ride a Cowboy” which talks about “getting buzzed on suds on some back country road” or something like that. What it has to do with anything, I don’t know.

140 Backwoods_Sleuth  Jul 11, 2014 2:00:16pm

re: #139 Minor_L

There’s a line in the Big & Rich song “Save a Horse Ride a Cowboy” which talks about “getting buzzed on suds on some back country road” or something like that. What it has to do with anything, I don’t know.

Sarah is famous for using country music lyrics in her screeds.
And fridgie magnet quotes.

141 De Kolta Chair  Jul 11, 2014 2:01:11pm

re: #135 Justanotherhuman

Charlie Haden, Legendary Jazz Bassist, Dies at 77

variety.com

Died way too young, but he left us with some talented kids.

142 Minor_L  Jul 11, 2014 2:02:18pm

re: #140 Backwoods_Sleuth

Makes her extra folksy!

ETA: Cesca’s response also works:

Who knows. She’s illiterate.

143 Backwoods_Sleuth  Jul 11, 2014 2:04:47pm

Please proceed, Mr. Speaker…

144 Justanotherhuman  Jul 11, 2014 2:05:17pm

re: #129 Lidane

[Embedded content]

This woman makes hypocrites look good.

145 wrenchwench  Jul 11, 2014 2:06:00pm

Now satt dings up the remark about how sexist it is here. I just don’t know sometimes.

146 wrenchwench  Jul 11, 2014 2:06:50pm

re: #143 Backwoods_Sleuth

Please proceed, Mr. Speaker…

[Embedded content]

Do they have to sue themselves now? I can’t keep up.

147 De Kolta Chair  Jul 11, 2014 2:07:25pm

re: #140 Backwoods_Sleuth

Sarah is famous for using country music lyrics in her screeds.
And fridgie magnet quotes.

A Sarah Palin/country music/Jurassic Park mash-up: The song over the end credits of Jurassic Park III is a Randy Newman country western parody called
Big Hat, No Cattle.

148 Pie-onist Overlord  Jul 11, 2014 3:09:22pm

re: #93 lawhawk

[Embedded content]

Then follow through for the full thing… It’s worth a read (especially at Ben Shapiro’s expense).

I left this comment:

I am an ultra-Orthodox Hasidic bubbie with 9 kids and 27 million grandkids, who works full time so that my beloved einiklach should all have presents on their birthdays and Hanukkah and bar/bat mitzvahs and even my daughter-in-laws birthday because hey, they are the mothers of my grandkids. And I would like to say to Ben Shapiro DU FARKAKTE PUTZ DU HOST FARSHIMMELTE LUCKSHEN IN KUP BIMKOM SAYKHEL, GROBEH NARR VOS DU BIST. OIB ICH GEVEN DAYN MAMA VOS FAR A FROSK VOLT ICH DIR GEGEBEN.

149 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 11, 2014 3:13:47pm

re: #148 Pie-onist Overlord

I left this comment:

I am an ultra-Orthodox Hasidic bubbie with 9 kids and 27 million grandkids, who works full time so that my beloved einiklach should all have presents on their birthdays and Hanukkah and bar/bat mitzvahs and even my daughter-in-laws birthday because hey, they are the mothers of my grandkids. And I would like to say to Ben Shapiro DU FARKAKTE PUTZ DU HOST FARSHIMMELTE LUCKSHEN IN KUP BIMKOM SAYKHEL, GROBEH NARR VOS DU BIST. OIB ICH GEVEN DAYN MAMA VOS FAR A FROSK VOLT ICH DIR GEGEBEN.

Ladies and gentlemen, behold: this is the proper use of Yiddish!

150 CuriousLurker  Jul 11, 2014 3:23:12pm

re: #148 Pie-onist Overlord

I don’t know what a word of that means and I’m kind of afraid to try to translate it, but have an up-ding anyway, heh.

151 Feline Fearless Leader  Jul 11, 2014 3:24:54pm

re: #47 Pie-onist Overlord

There was a German movie a number of years ago, about a Stasi agent whose job was listening to phone calls. I didn’t watch the entire movie, it was too boring.

Sounds like “The Lives of Others”. I happened to catch it when I was in the mood for a slower paced movie and thought it was quite good.

en.wikipedia.org

152 William Barnett-Lewis  Jul 11, 2014 4:26:27pm

re: #39 Shiplord Kirel

I saw that at a gun site. I’m still not sure if it’s a Poe or not.

153 William Barnett-Lewis  Jul 11, 2014 4:36:50pm

re: #114 Iwouldprefernotto

I’m still mad at Speilberg for 1942.

I heard all the bad things before I saw it and thought it was ok. Watched again recently. It’s really not that bad but he does not do pure comedy well.

The sequence of Belushi landing a P-40 (a fairly late war version but at least a real plane) at a gas station and saying “fill’er up” was worth the price of admission to warbirds nut like me.

154 jamesfirecat  Jul 11, 2014 4:38:45pm

re: #153 William Barnett-Lewis

I heard all the bad things before I saw it and thought it was ok. Watched again recently. It’s really not that bad but he does not do pure comedy well.

The sequence of Belushi landing a P-40 (a fairly late war version but at least a real plane) at a gas station and saying “fill’er up” was worth the price of admission to warbirds nut like me.

For me it was the Doctor Strangelove parody/reference scene where the Japanese go through Holly Woode’s fear at least as I recall.

155 socrets  Jul 11, 2014 8:52:08pm

re: #39 Shiplord Kirel

You know what? I give up. Humanity can go drown in the shower if they can’t spot a fake dinosaur).


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