Greenwald Announces New “Grant” Program; First Beneficiary: Greenwald’s Partner

Libertarian altruism
Media • Views: 30,005

Today Glenn Greenwald and Pierre Omidyar’s media organization First Look is announcing a new grant program they’re hyping as: Promoting and Protecting Free Speech and Free Expression.

And if you’ve been paying attention to the way they do things at First Look, it probably won’t surprise you to learn the first beneficiary of their grant program will be — Glenn Greenwald. Or to be more precise, Greenwald’s partner David Miranda, who is suing the British government to recover the stolen NSA documents he tried to sneak through British customs for Glenn Greenwald.

The amazing gall of these people, promoting this as a purely altruistic endeavor when they’re actually awarding this “grant” to themselves.

Glenn Greenwald’s partner David Miranda

Press freedom is enshrined in the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution as well as in international charters and conventions. A free press contributes to an informed citizenry and protects against corruption and government malfeasance. As Thomas Jefferson declared, “when the press is free and every man able to read, all is safe.” Yet the cost of protecting these rights often imposes too heavy a burden on journalists and their employers. FLM’s Press Freedom Litigation Fund is designed to strengthen the ability of journalists to pursue legal fights where a substantial public interest is at stake. Grants under the program can be used to fund challenges to government policies or actions that restrict press freedoms or denials of freedom of information act requests; motions to quash subpoenas seeking source information or journalistic material; defamation cases where the underlying report concerns a matter of public interest; access cases to closed proceedings or sealed documents; and amicus efforts in support of press freedom. There must be a substantial public benefit to any litigation receiving a grant.

Our first grant will be to support the appeal in the case of Miranda v. Secretary of State for the Home Department, in the UK Court of Appeal.

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168 comments
1 Randall Gross  Jul 21, 2014 12:57:56pm

It’s a ballsy move, I’ll grant them that…

2 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 21, 2014 12:58:21pm

*facepalm*

Talk about corruption.

3 Bulworth  Jul 21, 2014 12:59:28pm

I’m still very confused about how The Intercept and First Look overlap. Are they the same thing?

4 Kragar  Jul 21, 2014 1:00:08pm

Its good to be the King.

5 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Jul 21, 2014 1:01:24pm

Wow…

6 Kragar  Jul 21, 2014 1:01:49pm

re: #3 Bulworth

I’m still very confused about how The Intercept and First Look overlap. Are they the same thing?

First Look media is the parent organization which runs the Intercept. They say they plan to manage other ventures in the future.

7 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Jul 21, 2014 1:02:02pm

Not to go off topic too early but:

Ken Ham: Aliens are going to hell so just stop looking for them.

8 Jay in Oregon  Jul 21, 2014 1:02:04pm

Holy crap, they’re not even trying to hide the fact that they’re sloshing all of this money around to themselves and each other.

Striving to avoid even the appearance of impropriety apparently isn’t in Greenwald’s wheelhouse. Even if you agree that Miranda’s lawsuit has merit, the idea that Greenwald’s employer sees no problem with awarding him a “grant” to fight the lawsuit says a lot about their integrity.

9 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 21, 2014 1:03:38pm

re: #8 Jay in Oregon

Holy crap, they’re not even trying to hide the fact that they’re sloshing all of this money around to themselves and each other.

Striving to avoid even the appearance of impropriety apparently isn’t in Greenwald’s wheelhouse. Even if you agree that Miranda’s lawsuit has merit, the idea that Greenwald’s employer sees no problem with awarding him a “grant” to fight the lawsuit says a lot about their integrity.

That’s it, from now on I’m wearing a tin-foil hat to prevent any further reading of my thoughts!

10 Lidane  Jul 21, 2014 1:03:50pm

Wow. Just wow.

This is on the same level as Ayn Rand looking for government handouts when she needed them, but ranting and railing against government handouts as collectivism.

11 Bulworth  Jul 21, 2014 1:03:51pm

re:
#7

Maybe the aliens who come to visit us from time to time are actually from heaven! Hasn’t anyone considered this?

/

12 Eclectic Cyborg  Jul 21, 2014 1:05:01pm

From a purely business standpoint, The Intercept is a horribly run site. You don’t win readership by publishing three articles a week if that. Can you imagine if Charles posted that little here on LGF?

Pretty soon all us Lizards would find other pursuits and his page count would go down faster than the Brazilian Soccer team.

They seem to have no clear vision, no clear objective and very little passion on the part of employees.

Also they can’t ride that Snowden cache forever. Whatever will they do when they have to come up with - GASP! - original content?

13 Gus  Jul 21, 2014 1:05:54pm

nepotism

14 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 21, 2014 1:06:18pm

re: #13 Gus

nepotism

tin foil lalala

15 petesh  Jul 21, 2014 1:06:55pm

Wow. Just wow. I can see GG himself taking the view that “I happen to know that this is the right thing to do yadda yadda” but isn’t there anyone else there who can see how it looks? How about the guy who signs the checks? I think (I’m not totally sure) that this is a new low in ethics and heading down, down down to that burning ring of fire.

16 petesh  Jul 21, 2014 1:09:02pm

re: #10 Lidane

Great minds express stun alike … fools naturally use cliches

17 Feline Fearless Leader  Jul 21, 2014 1:11:05pm

re: #12 Eclectic Cyborg

From a purely business standpoint, The Intercept is a horribly run site. You don’t win readership by publishing three articles a week if that. Can you imagine if Charles posted that little here on LGF?

Pretty soon all us Lizards would find other pursuits and his page count would go down faster than the Brazilian Soccer team.

They seem to have no clear vision, no clear objective and very little passion on the part of employees.

Also they can’t ride that Snowden cache forever. Whatever will they do when they have to come up with - GASP! - original content?

They can be a leading marketer of Dudebro Protective Services Software. You know, the brand with the Snowden Seal of Approval!
///

18 lawhawk  Jul 21, 2014 1:11:31pm

SMH.

Sad and predictable.

19 GlutenFreeJesus  Jul 21, 2014 1:13:42pm

I’m in the wrong profession.

20 Pie-onist Overlord  Jul 21, 2014 1:14:55pm

HOW DARE YOU QUESTIONS TEH JOURNALISMS!!!!!!!!

21 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Jul 21, 2014 1:15:27pm

re: #19 GlutenFreeJesus

You and me both. Given that grifting now seems to be an acceptable profession (beyond being a TV preacher) I need to get in on the action.

22 Lidane  Jul 21, 2014 1:16:11pm

re: #19 GlutenFreeJesus

I’m in the wrong profession.

Seriously. I need to just quit everything and become a political gadfly. Convince a bunch of people I’m a genius, get them to give me money, and then give it to my friends and call it a grant. It’s win-win. I get free money and I can keep the gravy train going by calling it a legal defense fund for freedom.

23 b.d.  Jul 21, 2014 1:18:07pm

Wow.

Want that grant David? It’s your turn to feed the dogs isn’t it?

24 wrenchwench  Jul 21, 2014 1:18:27pm

When I first saw a tweet about this, I thought for a split second they had named a project after this Miranda. But of course not.

25 Pie-onist Overlord  Jul 21, 2014 1:18:33pm

OBAMA IS WORSER THEN PUTIN!!!!!!!

26 William Barnett-Lewis  Jul 21, 2014 1:19:44pm

OT:

Whee…. thanks to my advocate, we figured out how to wiggle me through the health care website till I came up wit only a $4.59/month premium for a silver coverage plan. I’d still like to shine my shoes on the seat of my corrupt governor’s trousers…

Now back to your regularly scheduled Griftwald scam.

27 wrenchwench  Jul 21, 2014 1:20:00pm

re: #25 Pie-onist Overlord

OBAMA IS WORSER THEN PUTIN!!!!!!!

[Embedded content]

He should have left his avi as an egg. It would go well with all that hash.

28 Pie-onist Overlord  Jul 21, 2014 1:21:09pm

re: #24 wrenchwench

When I first saw a tweet about this, I thought for a split second they had named a project after this Miranda. But of course not.

Should be this Miranda:

29 b.d.  Jul 21, 2014 1:25:11pm

Do grants have to be awarded based upon received applications and various stated grant outlines?

Now if David Miranda is the sole person on the planet that fulfills the grant requirements that make applications unnecessary then there is another term rather than grant that explains the money he got.

30 Charles Johnson  Jul 21, 2014 1:25:12pm
31 b.d.  Jul 21, 2014 1:28:56pm

[ethical organization] You have a valid case and we wish we could fund you but you are the significant other of one of our employees [/ethical organization]

32 Shiplord Kirel  Jul 21, 2014 1:30:16pm

re: #7 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

Not to go off topic too early but:

Ken Ham: Aliens are going to hell so just stop looking for them.

Abduction candidate. Perhaps they can re-educate him.

33 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Jul 21, 2014 1:34:22pm

re: #32 Shiplord Kirel

Abduction candidate. Perhaps they can re-educate him.

He would be used as evidence that there is no intelligent life on earth.

34 darthstar  Jul 21, 2014 1:34:22pm

Wow…out of all the causes, Miranda’s was chosen! What are the odds of that?

35 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 21, 2014 1:34:38pm

re: #32 Shiplord Kirel

Abduction candidate. Perhaps they can re-educate him.

Who knows, he may even enjoy the probe.

36 Rev_Arthur_Belling  Jul 21, 2014 1:35:50pm
There must be a substantial public benefit to any litigation receiving a grant.

I don’t see any substantial public benefit in the appeal. He’s not in custody any longer. What, other than padding the wallets of some lawyers, do they hope to achieve in this appeal?

37 Higgs Boson's Mate  Jul 21, 2014 1:36:01pm

First Beneficiary: Greenwald’s Partner

I am shocked! Shocked I tell you.

38 darthstar  Jul 21, 2014 1:36:23pm

When all you have is your imagination, a pillow fort, and your partner, the world becomes a very small place indeed.

39 ObserverArt  Jul 21, 2014 1:37:41pm

Next up Glenn Greenwald starts a new religion. Cites himself as The All-Knowing Miracle to All Human Security and therefore counts himself as a deity and bigger than Jesus, Buddha, Muhammad, Abraham, Joseph Smith, etc.

You can all bow down now…

40 darthstar  Jul 21, 2014 1:38:15pm
41 darthstar  Jul 21, 2014 1:38:52pm

re: #39 ObserverArt

Greenwald’s so full of self-hate he calls himself America when he looks in the mirror.

42 Kragar  Jul 21, 2014 1:39:45pm
43 ObserverArt  Jul 21, 2014 1:42:00pm

Alex Wagner just mentioned Obama is going past the border and directly to Guatemala, El Salvador and Honduras for meetings on immigration issues.

Rick Perry still pissed that he has not gone for photo ops in Texas!

44 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 21, 2014 1:42:41pm

re: #40 darthstar

Royal Baby Already Making New Friends

45 Bulworth  Jul 21, 2014 1:45:35pm

Because I realize how much TCOT wants to know what happened in Benghazi I offer, free of charge, this list of Benghazi! books on Amazon mutherF0ckin dot com.

Go read something. Knock yourselves out:

amazon.com

46 jaunte  Jul 21, 2014 1:46:42pm

re: #23 b.d.

Wow.

Want that grant David? It’s your turn to feed the dogs isn’t it?

Is that what the kids are calling it now?

47 Kragar  Jul 21, 2014 1:52:48pm

President signs LGBT order, Todd Starnes loses it

48 makeitstop  Jul 21, 2014 1:55:18pm

re: #36 Rev_Arthur_Belling

I don’t see any substantial public benefit in the appeal. He’s not in custody any longer. What, other than padding the wallets of some lawyers, do they hope to achieve in this appeal?

And the question arises - who’s representing Miranda? Greenwald, maybe?

49 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Jul 21, 2014 1:57:57pm

Mississippi primary spilling over into Kentucky

Couldn’t happen to a nice douche bag.

50 piratedan  Jul 21, 2014 1:58:54pm

awaits the inevitable future where GG opens up a publishing company to handle all of the publication needs, then a PR firm to handle all of the promotional needs of his grifting empire and then incorporate himself into a security provider for those folks that appreciate his ethical stands on security in certain spheres of influence, like Asia maybe…

51 Franklin Brewsevelt  Jul 21, 2014 2:03:26pm

re: #47 Kragar

President signs LGBT order, Todd Starnes loses it

The whole time I am reading the article I keep thinking, as one of the articles commentors so aptly put it:

If a business chooses not to hire LGBT people, they’re free to forgo federal contracts. Pretty simple, really.

52 Lidane  Jul 21, 2014 2:04:37pm

re: #47 Kragar

President signs LGBT order, Todd Starnes loses it

Every time Todd Starnes flips his shit, an angel gets their wings. Heh.

53 Charles Johnson  Jul 21, 2014 2:04:48pm
54 ObserverArt  Jul 21, 2014 2:04:56pm

Alex Wagner interviewed Spencer Ackerman from the Guardian and they are outraged about Snowden saying the NSA sometimes get’s their jollies looking at images of folks in compromising (sexual) situations.

But like everything…it is all generalized…not a fact one.

We get these reports and conjectures about this wide sweeping spying, then we get info there are only certain (and few) people that are actually followed and looked into. So are the compromising images they share and giggle over those few people, or is anyone going beyond their scope and digging into emails and finding such images? Or, is it all BS and no images have actually been shared among the NSA folks.

Does anyone have a feel for this? It all sounds so chilling and I am sure it pisses off people, but what the hell do we really know?

Does anyone have a feel for this?

I admit, it gets confusing because people you know will mention it, but there are no facts one way or the other to either fight it off or agree things are out of control.

This is the largest non-factual story ever as far as I am concerned. It’s all pissing me off. I don’t want to see the damn images, but can anyone (Snowden) actually prove it occurs?

Put up or shut up time for me. Grrrr…

55 b.d.  Jul 21, 2014 2:05:17pm

THANKS FOR THE GUMBALL PIERRE!

56 Lidane  Jul 21, 2014 2:05:43pm

re: #49 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

Mississippi primary spilling over into Kentucky

Couldn’t happen to a nice douche bag.

Ready! Fire! Aim!

57 thedopefishlives  Jul 21, 2014 2:07:18pm

Cronyism? In the Court of Greenwald? I am shocked, SHOCKED!

////

Evening Lizardim.

58 Romantic Heretic  Jul 21, 2014 2:11:49pm

re: #7 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

Not to go off topic too early but:

Ken Ham: Aliens are going to hell so just stop looking for them.

I think Mr. Ham is a little confused about who makes the decisions about who goes to Hell.

59 Pie-onist Overlord  Jul 21, 2014 2:12:19pm

FAINTS!!!!!! VAPORS!!!!!

60 Pie-onist Overlord  Jul 21, 2014 2:16:17pm
61 Kragar  Jul 21, 2014 2:16:56pm
62 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 21, 2014 2:16:59pm
63 blueraven  Jul 21, 2014 2:19:11pm

re: #62 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

[Embedded content]

I hope that was a fish story. /

64 Charles Johnson  Jul 21, 2014 2:19:18pm
65 thedopefishlives  Jul 21, 2014 2:19:45pm

re: #62 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

[Embedded content]

I once caught one THIS big.

66 Lidane  Jul 21, 2014 2:19:46pm

re: #59 Pie-onist Overlord

If they have moral objections, then it’s very simple — don’t take federal contracts. Voila! Problem solved.

68 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 21, 2014 2:24:57pm

re: #67 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

Hmm, click on it. How did he do it?

69 Eclectic Cyborg  Jul 21, 2014 2:25:44pm

re: #37 Higgs Boson’s Mate

First Beneficiary: Greenwald’s Partner

I am shocked! Shocked I tell you.

Your dudebros, sir.

70 GlutenFreeJesus  Jul 21, 2014 2:25:56pm

re: #21 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

You and me both. Given that grifting now seems to be an acceptable profession (beyond being a TV preacher) I need to get in on the action.

And I actually thought long ago that I’d have to work hard and earn my paycheck. WTF was I thinking. I was so young and naive.

71 Pie-onist Overlord  Jul 21, 2014 2:26:02pm
72 Kragar  Jul 21, 2014 2:26:22pm

re: #68 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

Hmm, click on it. How did he do it?

He’s a sorcerer.

73 blueraven  Jul 21, 2014 2:30:48pm

re: #68 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

Hmm, click on it. How did he do it?

‘twas the NSA that did it.

74 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 21, 2014 2:31:45pm

But srsly, how?

75 Decatur Deb  Jul 21, 2014 2:32:34pm

re: #7 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

Not to go off topic too early but:

Ken Ham: Aliens are going to hell so just stop looking for them.

That’s stupid to Catholics. By 6th grade, around the time that theological question comes up, the nuns explained that any aliens would not need to be saved—they were not lost because of Adam. They could be living in their original relationship to the creator, or working through their own messiah’s economy of salvation if they had had a ‘fall’. Then the nuns made us go back to diagramming sentences.

76 Kragar  Jul 21, 2014 2:33:39pm

re: #75 Decatur Deb

That’s stupid to Catholics. By 6th grade, around the time that theological question comes up, the nuns explained that any aliens would not need to be saved—they were not lost because of Adam. They could be living in their original relationship to the creator, or working through their own messiah’s economy of salvation if they had had a ‘fall’. Then the nuns made us go back to diagramming sentences.

77 GlutenFreeJesus  Jul 21, 2014 2:33:44pm

re: #59 Pie-onist Overlord

FAINTS!!!!!! VAPORS!!!!!

[Embedded content]

“Get a new job!”

78 Eclectic Cyborg  Jul 21, 2014 2:33:47pm

re: #75 Decatur Deb

That’s stupid to Catholics. By 6th grade, around the time that theological question comes up, the nuns explained that any aliens would not need to be saved—they were not lost because of Adam. They could be living in their original relationship to the creator, or working through their own messiah’s economy of salvation if they had had a ‘fall’. Then the nuns made us go back to diagramming sentences.

And that is of course a theologically rational explanation. Pretty obvious if you ask me.

79 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 21, 2014 2:35:20pm

re: #75 Decatur Deb

The whole world fell through Adam, so the first part doesn’t work. The second might.

80 Charles Johnson  Jul 21, 2014 2:37:47pm

re: #68 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

Hmm, click on it. How did he do it?

It’s a PNG, and the dark areas of the hair and hat are actually transparent so the background shows through. In an embedded tweet this background is black, but in the page for a tweet the background is white.

And that’s the rest of the story.

81 thedopefishlives  Jul 21, 2014 2:38:28pm

re: #80 Charles Johnson

It’s a PNG, and the dark areas of the hair and hat are actually transparent so the background shows through. In an embedded tweet this background is back, but in the page for a tweet the background is white.

And that’s the rest of the story.

That’s actually really clever.

82 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 21, 2014 2:38:34pm

re: #80 Charles Johnson

It’s a PNG, and the dark areas of the hair and hat are actually transparent so the background shows through. In an embedded tweet this background is black, but in the page for a tweet the background is white.

And that’s the rest of the story.

Cool!

83 blueraven  Jul 21, 2014 2:38:39pm

re: #74 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

But srsly, how?

No idea, but not his first one like this.

84 Kragar  Jul 21, 2014 2:39:06pm

re: #80 Charles Johnson

It’s a PNG, and the dark areas of the hair and hat are actually transparent so the background shows through. In an embedded tweet this background is black, but in the page for a tweet the background is white.

And that’s the rest of the story.

So… sorcery then.

85 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 21, 2014 2:40:11pm

re: #83 blueraven

Zhgun is my favorite… whatchamacallist…

Youtube Video

86 Lidane  Jul 21, 2014 2:41:08pm

re: #75 Decatur Deb

Hang on. Isn’t the whole Fall of Man and Original Sin are tied to Eve, not Adam? He was tricked by teh ebil wimmenz into eating the forbidden fruit because she had listened to a talking snake.

87 Kragar  Jul 21, 2014 2:42:02pm
88 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 21, 2014 2:44:29pm

re: #86 Lidane

Hang on. Isn’t the whole Fall of Man and Original Sin are tied to Eve, not Adam? He was tricked by teh ebil wimmenz into eating the forbidden fruit because she had listened to a talking snake.

The Bible is contradictory on this point. As usual.

89 thedopefishlives  Jul 21, 2014 2:44:39pm

re: #86 Lidane

Hang on. Isn’t the whole Fall of Man and Original Sin are tied to Eve, not Adam? He was tricked by teh ebil wimmenz into eating the forbidden fruit because she had listened to a talking snake.

Nah. Adam was supposed to be a Real Man (tm) and tell her to shut up and get back in the kitchen and make him a sammich.

90 Eclectic Cyborg  Jul 21, 2014 2:45:46pm

re: #87 Kragar

So what’s next? A plane going down near the border? What do these people expect.

91 Kragar  Jul 21, 2014 2:45:51pm

re: #88 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

The Bible is contradictory on this point. As usual.

When your editorial staff includes a bunch of goat herders taking dictation from a flaming topiary, you’re going to run into this kind of thing.

92 Lidane  Jul 21, 2014 2:46:02pm

*headdesk*

Drudge Hypes Obama Birthplace Conspiracy Theory Poll

93 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 21, 2014 2:46:06pm
12Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned—

13To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not charged against anyone’s account where there is no law. 14Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who is a pattern of the one to come.

94 wrenchwench  Jul 21, 2014 2:46:15pm

BEES

95 Eclectic Cyborg  Jul 21, 2014 2:46:51pm

re: #91 Kragar

When your editorial staff includes a bunch of goat herders taking dictation from a flaming topiary, you’re going to run into this kind of thing.

That’s why I’ve often struggled with the “scripture is infallible” belief. Especially considering all the translations its gone through from the original languages.

96 Dr Lizardo  Jul 21, 2014 2:47:11pm

re: #87 Kragar

Ingraham: Is Obama distracting from border crisis by focusing on plane?

Dr. Lizard: Is Laura Ingraham a paranoid. conspiracy-addled dumbass? Yes. Yes she is.

97 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 21, 2014 2:47:18pm

re: #93 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.

98 thedopefishlives  Jul 21, 2014 2:47:50pm

I actually wasn’t entirely joking about that. Biblical tradition pins original sin on Adam because he was the head of the household and responsible for telling his wife not to be stupid and listen to the snake. His refusal to be a man and dominate his wife caused the whole problem.

99 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 21, 2014 2:48:22pm

re: #95 Eclectic Cyborg

That’s why I’ve often struggled with the “scripture is infallible” belief. Especially considering all the translations its gone through from the original languages.

What translations? I mean, it’s always one step.

100 thedopefishlives  Jul 21, 2014 2:49:08pm

re: #99 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

What translations? I mean, it’s always one step.

There are some translations that are retranslations of, for example, the Latin Vulgate. However, for modern versions, you would be correct.

101 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 21, 2014 2:49:38pm

re: #93 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

re: #97 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

So, either Adam or Eve. Take your pick, no discrimination here ;)

102 Eclectic Cyborg  Jul 21, 2014 2:49:41pm

6 When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it. 7 Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they realized they were naked; so they sewed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves.

8 Then the man and his wife heard the sound of the Lord God as he was walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and they hid from the Lord God among the trees of the garden. 9 But the Lord God called to the man, “Where are you?”

10 He answered, “I heard you in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; so I hid.”

11 And he said, “Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree that I commanded you not to eat from?”

12 The man said, “The woman you put here with me—she gave me some fruit from the tree, and I ate it.”

Eve didn’t force him in into anything, Adam could have just not eaten the fruit like God told him. The usual message preached on these passages is not that women are deceitful, but that mankind is susceptible to deceit and coercion from outside sources. Adam and Eve are clearly both equally guilty in the eyes of God.

103 Kragar  Jul 21, 2014 2:50:16pm

re: #95 Eclectic Cyborg

That’s why I’ve often struggled with the “scripture is infallible” belief. Especially considering all the translations its gone through from the original languages.

“Back when the Bible was written, then edited, then rewritten, then rewritten, then re-edited, then translated from dead languages, then re-translated, then edited, then rewritten, then given to kings for them to take their favorite parts, then rewritten, then re-rewritten, then translated again, then given to the pope for him to approve, then rewritten, then edited again, the re-re-re-re-rewritten again…all based on stories that were told orally 30 to 90 years AFTER they happened.. to people who didn’t know how to write…

So…”

-David Cross

104 Decatur Deb  Jul 21, 2014 2:50:41pm

re: #79 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

The whole world fell through Adam, so the first part doesn’t work. The second might.

This whole world. If Adam ain’t your baby daddy, you’re off the hook.

105 thedopefishlives  Jul 21, 2014 2:51:03pm

re: #104 Decatur Deb

>This whole world. If Adam ain’t your baby daddy, you’re off the hook.

Well, we are Lizardim, so…

106 Eclectic Cyborg  Jul 21, 2014 2:51:31pm

re: #103 Kragar

Heh, isn’t Cross Jewish?

107 Charles Johnson  Jul 21, 2014 2:51:40pm

Interesting…

108 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 21, 2014 2:52:02pm

re: #100 thedopefishlives

Yeah, you’re right. Plus the Eastern Orthodox Churches are LXX-based when it comes to liturgy. But for all intents and purposes, most translations are from the original languages. The main questions are the quality of the translations and the manuscripts used for each given verse.

109 Kragar  Jul 21, 2014 2:53:20pm

re: #106 Eclectic Cyborg

Heh, isn’t Cross Jewish?

Raised Jewish, but personally an atheist.

110 Eclectic Cyborg  Jul 21, 2014 2:53:21pm

re: #107 Charles Johnson

I see Accountability Now and can’t help but be reminded of: SERENITY NOW!

111 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 21, 2014 2:53:27pm

re: #103 Kragar

If we take away all the “retranslations”… that’s pretty much it.

112 Decatur Deb  Jul 21, 2014 2:53:38pm

re: #88 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

The Bible is contradictory on this point. As usual.

The 1950s Pittsburgh RC nun ruling was that Adam had the choice. We weren’t screwed until the second bite.

“She who wields the ruler makes the rules.”

113 thedopefishlives  Jul 21, 2014 2:54:18pm

re: #112 Decatur Deb

“She who wields the ruler makes the rules.”

Sounds very much like something a nun would say.

114 Eclectic Cyborg  Jul 21, 2014 2:55:03pm

re: #112 Decatur Deb

The 1950s Pittsburgh RC nun ruling was that Adam had the choice. We weren’t screwed until the second bite.

“She who wields the ruler makes the rules.”

God told both of them not to eat. If Eve did and Adam DIDN’T, then Eve would have been cast out and Adam would what? Be stuck there until God made him another partner?

It’s interesting to ponder.

115 thedopefishlives  Jul 21, 2014 2:56:01pm

re: #108 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

Yeah, you’re right. Plus the Eastern Orthodox Churches are LXX-based when it comes to liturgy. But for all intents and purposes, most translations are from the original languages. The main questions are the quality of the translations and the manuscripts used for each given verse.

There are also a few quibbles over the translation of specific uncommon words/phrases in the source languages, due to their specific religious context that isn’t found elsewhere in the archaeological record. But those don’t really have a major impact on the actual meaning of the text, just specific word choice.

116 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 21, 2014 2:56:25pm

re: #104 Decatur Deb

This whole world.

Sure. Nobody said anything about other universes.

If Adam ain’t your baby daddy, you’re off the hook.

That would be a genetic theory of sin, which doesn’t much sense. More likely the universal death is meant, including the death of animals.

117 Decatur Deb  Jul 21, 2014 2:57:19pm

re: #114 Eclectic Cyborg

God told both of them not to eat. If Eve did and Adam DIDN’T, then Eve would have been cast out and Adam would what? Be stuck there until God made him another partner?

It’s interesting to ponder.

It was interesting to 6th grade boys who had just seen Invaders from Mars. After a few minutes the nuns knew we were BSing them.

118 William Barnett-Lewis  Jul 21, 2014 2:57:42pm

re: #114 Eclectic Cyborg

God told both of them not to eat. If Eve did and Adam DIDN’T, then Eve would have been cast out and Adam would what? Be stuck there until God made him another partner?

It’s interesting to ponder.

Get’s more fun if you mix in the myths of Lilith, Adam’s first wife… ;)

119 thedopefishlives  Jul 21, 2014 2:57:52pm

re: #116 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

Sure. Nobody said anything about other universes.

That would be a genetic theory of sin, which doesn’t much sense. More likely the universal death is meant, including the death of animals.

Christian theology usually incorporates a genetic component to original sin. It’s why Jesus’ virgin birth is so heavily emphasized; He “broke” the genetic chain of damage.

120 Decatur Deb  Jul 21, 2014 3:00:02pm

re: #116 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

Sure. Nobody said anything about other universes.

That would be a genetic theory of sin, which doesn’t much sense. More likely the universal death is meant, including the death of animals.

Biblical storyline is full of the consequences of sin passed down the generations. It’s sort of the whole point. You didn’t want to be an Egyptian baby on the first Pesach.

121 Rightwingconspirator  Jul 21, 2014 3:01:14pm

Well if i was not awake before i sure am now. just happened to be in the company car coming back from a customer an hour ago when we stopped short at the intersection for a siren and CHP SUV. Short story shorter that cop stopped just a few feet away, got out of his SUV, drew his pistol fast and confronted a pedestrian finger on the trigger. For a tiny fraction of a second that gun swept through me and my co worker.

Absolutely nothing went wrong we just slowly pulled away with dilated pupils and a mild adrenaline high. Watched police cars speeding by, rolling backup no doubt.

I’m thankful there was good gun handling & a cooperative suspect with no shooting.

122 wrenchwench  Jul 21, 2014 3:01:20pm

Congressman from El Paso. He knows what he’s talking about.

123 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 21, 2014 3:02:27pm

re: #119 thedopefishlives

Christian theology usually incorporates a genetic component to original sin. It’s why Jesus’ virgin birth is so heavily emphasized; He “broke” the genetic chain of damage.

Except he was born of a sinful woman (and - I know the Catholic way out of this, which, however, merely moves the problem one step back), so logically the chain would continue. Rather, the virgin birth was necessary because that’s the only way you have a child from an unembodied spirit. The chain was really broken with Jesus’ sacrifice.

124 Decatur Deb  Jul 21, 2014 3:03:32pm

re: #121 Rightwingconspirator

Well if i was not awake before i sure am now. just happened to be in the company car coming back from a customer an hour ago when we stopped short at the intersection for a siren and CHP SUV. Short story shorter that cop stopped just a few feet away, got out of his SUV, drew his pistol fast and confronted a pedestrian finger on the trigger. For a tiny fraction of a second that gun swept through me and my co worker.

Absolutely nothing went wrong we just slowly pulled away with dilated pupils and a mild adrenaline high. Watched police cars speeding by, rolling backup no doubt.

I’m thankful there was good gun handling & a cooperative suspect with no shooting.

Y’all take jaywalking seriously out there.

125 thedopefishlives  Jul 21, 2014 3:03:35pm

re: #121 Rightwingconspirator

Well if i was not awake before i sure am now. just happened to be in the company car coming back from a customer an hour ago when we stopped short at the intersection for a siren and CHP SUV. Short story shorter that cop stopped just a few feet away, got out of his SUV, drew his pistol fast and confronted a pedestrian finger on the trigger. For a tiny fraction of a second that gun swept through me and my co worker.

Absolutely nothing went wrong we just slowly pulled away with dilated pupils and a mild adrenaline high. Watched police cars speeding by, rolling backup no doubt.

I’m thankful there was good gun handling & a cooperative suspect with no shooting.

Hoo boy. I’m glad you and your passenger are alright.

126 wrenchwench  Jul 21, 2014 3:03:48pm

re: #121 Rightwingconspirator

Well if i was not awake before i sure am now. just happened to be in the company car coming back from a customer an hour ago when we stopped short at the intersection for a siren and CHP SUV. Short story shorter that cop stopped just a few feet away, got out of his SUV, drew his pistol fast and confronted a pedestrian finger on the trigger. For a tiny fraction of a second that gun swept through me and my co worker.

Absolutely nothing went wrong we just slowly pulled away with dilated pupils and a mild adrenaline high. Watched police cars speeding by, rolling backup no doubt.

I’m thankful there was good gun handling & a cooperative suspect with no shooting.

I’m sorry to hear that’s good gun handling. Glad you’re OK.

127 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 21, 2014 3:03:53pm

re: #120 Decatur Deb

Biblical storyline is full of the consequences of sin passed down the generations. It’s sort of the whole point. You didn’t want to be an Egyptian baby on the first Pesach.

That may be. Anyway, the text is clear - death entered through Adam. Not a specific human death - just death. Sorry, innocent aliens.

128 Feline Fearless Leader  Jul 21, 2014 3:04:47pm

re: #127 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

That may be. Anyway, the text is clear - death entered through Adam. Not a specific human death - just death. Sorry, innocent aliens.

AND HOW ARE WE THIS FINE EVENING?

129 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 21, 2014 3:05:46pm

re: #128 Feline Fearless Leader

AND HOW ARE WE THIS FINE EVENING?

I’m not dead yet.

130 thedopefishlives  Jul 21, 2014 3:05:54pm

re: #128 Feline Fearless Leader

AND HOW ARE WE THIS FINE EVENING?

I don’t know about “fine”. 95 degrees, with a heat index approaching 110, is not “fine”. It’s “death to summer”. And “death to global warming” if you want to politicize it.

131 Decatur Deb  Jul 21, 2014 3:05:59pm

re: #123 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

Except he was born of a sinful woman (and - I know the Catholic way out of this, which, however, merely moves the problem one step back), so logically the chain would continue. Rather, the virgin birth was necessary because that’s the only way you have a child from an unembodied spirit. The chain was really broken with Jesus’ sacrifice.

Not just a virgin, but an immaculately-concieved virgin. Catholics hold Mary is born without sin for the purposes of this very dynamic.

132 Decatur Deb  Jul 21, 2014 3:06:56pm

re: #127 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

That may be. Anyway, the text is clear - death entered through Adam. Not a specific human death - just death. Sorry, innocent aliens.

Dr. Ham will send you free passes to the Ark in the Park.

133 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 21, 2014 3:07:01pm

re: #131 Decatur Deb

To re-quote what you have quoted:

(and - I know the Catholic way out of this, which, however, merely moves the problem one step back),

134 thedopefishlives  Jul 21, 2014 3:07:24pm

re: #131 Decatur Deb

Not just a virgin, but an immaculately-concieved virgin. Catholics hold Mary is born without sin for the purposes of this very dynamic.

Evangelicals take the view that the genetic component descends from the man, thus avoiding the need for a virgin born of a virgin.

135 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 21, 2014 3:08:52pm

re: #132 Decatur Deb

Dr. Ham will send you free passes to the Ark in the Park.

It’s not my fault that he interprets Genesis correctly ;)

136 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 21, 2014 3:12:07pm

re: #134 thedopefishlives

Evangelicals take the view that the genetic component descends from the man, thus avoiding the need for a virgin born of a virgin.

Wait. Wouldn’t that make women physically immortal?

137 Decatur Deb  Jul 21, 2014 3:13:11pm

re: #134 thedopefishlives

Evangelicals take the view that the genetic component descends from the man, thus avoiding the need for a virgin born of a virgin.

Catholics see it as a cooperative screw-up, but figure a divine spirit and an immaculate virgin should cover the bases.

(The doctrine of the Immaculate Conception, though traceable pretty far back, only becomes a required article of faith in the 1850s, IIRC.)

138 Decatur Deb  Jul 21, 2014 3:14:10pm

re: #136 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

Wait. Wouldn’t that make women physically immortal?

They get away with everything.

139 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 21, 2014 3:16:23pm
140 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 21, 2014 3:17:49pm
141 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 21, 2014 3:18:10pm
142 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 21, 2014 3:18:58pm

Are black boxes easy to tamper with?

143 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 21, 2014 3:20:33pm
144 Decatur Deb  Jul 21, 2014 3:21:02pm

re: #142 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

Are black boxes easy to tamper with?

Would take some time and resources to fake them well. The joke is that the aircraft’s data isn’t that significant. Get me some data from the AAA command and launch vehicles.

145 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 21, 2014 3:21:48pm

re: #144 Decatur Deb

Would take some time and resources to fake them well. The joke is that the aircraft’s data isn’t that significant. Get me some data from the AAA command and launch vehicles.

How much time?

146 thedopefishlives  Jul 21, 2014 3:21:48pm

re: #136 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

Wait. Wouldn’t that make women physically immortal?

No, because they’re born of men just like everyone else. But anyone born of a woman BUT NOT a man would be.

147 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 21, 2014 3:21:52pm
148 Decatur Deb  Jul 21, 2014 3:24:11pm

Dunno, but you’d have to merge the real and fake data and recreate credible seals. To do that quickly, you would need resources waiting around for a never-happens eventuality.

149 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 21, 2014 3:25:11pm

re: #146 thedopefishlives

No, because they’re born of men just like everyone else. But anyone born of a woman BUT NOT a man would be.

Hmm, either they have a sinful nature or they don’t. If they do, it doesn’t make sense that they wouldn’t pass it on, with or without man…

150 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 21, 2014 3:26:13pm

re: #148 Decatur Deb

OK, so if it is ascertained that the seals were not broken, we can assume that the data is legit, right?

151 Eventual Carrion  Jul 21, 2014 3:27:08pm

re: #89 thedopefishlives

Nah. Adam was supposed to be a Real Man (tm) and tell her to shut up and get back in the kitchen and make him a sammich.

Brontosaurs sammich.

152 thedopefishlives  Jul 21, 2014 3:27:15pm

re: #149 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

Hmm, either they have a sinful nature or they don’t. If they do, it doesn’t make sense that they wouldn’t pass it on, with or without man…

*shrug* I’m at the limits of my theological knowledge here.

153 Decatur Deb  Jul 21, 2014 3:28:10pm

re: #150 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

OK, so if it is ascertained that the seals were not broken, we can assume that the data is legit, right?

Probably even if some dumbass screwed with the seals. But the plane’s data is mostly self-referential, wouldn’t tell us anything about the shooter.

154 Charles Johnson  Jul 21, 2014 3:29:46pm

re: #150 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

OK, so if it is ascertained that the seals were not broken, we can assume that the data is legit, right?

I don’t know about that - I’m pretty sure Russia has the resources to fake seals if they need to, and they’ve had these boxes for several days now.

155 thedopefishlives  Jul 21, 2014 3:30:36pm

re: #153 Decatur Deb

Probably even if some dumbass screwed with the seals. But the plane’s data is mostly self-referential, wouldn’t tell us anything about the shooter.

About the only thing it could do is determine what the effects were on the flight - that is, verify for certain that it was shot down. The who of it will likely never be known, with a mobile launcher and any physical evidence of the missile in the hands of one of the suspect parties.

156 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 21, 2014 3:30:51pm

re: #153 Decatur Deb

Probably even if some dumbass screwed with the seals. But the plane’s data is mostly self-referential, wouldn’t tell us anything about the shooter.

Not directly, no. But may contain important details, some of which may be fatal for some versions. I assume they also contain voice recordings.

157 Decatur Deb  Jul 21, 2014 3:31:24pm

re: #154 Charles Johnson

I don’t know about that - I’m pretty sure Russia has the resources to fake seals if they need to, and they’ve had these boxes for several days now.

I’m sure they could, better fakery with longer prep time. I’m saying the plane didn’t know who shot it.

158 Charles Johnson  Jul 21, 2014 3:32:55pm

re: #157 Decatur Deb

I’m sure they could, better fakery with longer prep time. I’m saying the plane didn’t know who shot it.

No, but if there are voice recordings that could reveal a lot about what happened.

159 Decatur Deb  Jul 21, 2014 3:34:29pm

re: #158 Charles Johnson

No, but if there are voice recordings that could reveal a lot about what happened.

Mostly going to be “oh shit” in Malaysian. That and pilot-copilot instructions to cope.

160 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 21, 2014 3:35:53pm

If I thought the black boxes might contain incriminating info, had no time to fake it, and had to give them up, I would try to erase the info and present things as if they had been that way all along. Now, are there ways to do it, considering that black boxes withstand temperature etc.?

161 thedopefishlives  Jul 21, 2014 3:36:49pm

re: #159 Decatur Deb

Mostly going to be “oh shit” in Malaysian. That and pilot-copilot instructions to cope.

Depending on how long the plane stayed together after impact. If the destruction was severe enough, the recording might be mercifully short.

162 Decatur Deb  Jul 21, 2014 3:39:55pm

re: #160 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

If I thought the black boxes might contain incriminating info, had no time to fake it, and had to give them up, I would try to erase the info and present things as if they had been that way all along. Now, are there ways to do it, considering that black boxes withstand temperature etc.?

Don’t know the new technologies (multiple). Some of the old ones inscribed the data channels into metal foil tape, proof against a whole lot of environments.

(If I thought the boxes contained incriminating evidence, they would never be found on turf I controlled.)

163 Rightwingconspirator  Jul 21, 2014 3:46:20pm

re: #126 wrenchwench

Well good enough no a/d and he was obviously really worried about this guy, big felony style thing. That gun stayed really steady after he got lined up. He acted like he was sure the dude was armed. Dunno what prompted any of it of course.

Observation from seeing training—CHP draws early and they keep their distance ordering a subject to go through the positions until face down hand crossed at your back. Then they go finger to the frame with compliance, step c;lose, holster, plant a knee on your back then cuff. Look like a procedure for a felony solo arrest. No backup is assumed.

164 Rightwingconspirator  Jul 21, 2014 3:47:29pm

re: #125 thedopefishlives

Hoo boy. I’m glad you and your passenger are alright.

The car has some unique wrinkles in the seats that I’m pretty sure are now permanent. ;-)

165 De Kolta Chair  Jul 21, 2014 4:45:22pm

re: #142 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

Are black boxes easy to tamper with?

Beats me, but I can’t help but notice that these are orange boxes, which I’m assuming are easier to tamper with because orange is a lighter color. //

166 Higgs Boson's Mate  Jul 21, 2014 7:34:06pm

re: #142 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

I worked for the company that made the things. You would have to have a super hacker to tamper with them. One normally records cockpit voice, the other records any changes to control settings. The cockpit voice could be hacked. The minutiae of changes in the rudder, elevator, ailerons, throttles, engine state, and trim tabs over the course of a flight would be damned difficult to fake. It’s more likely to me that the people who stole off with the black boxes are more interested in muddying the waters than they are in falsifying the record.

167 BadExampleMan  Jul 21, 2014 8:43:14pm

re: #114 Eclectic Cyborg

God told both of them not to eat. If Eve did and Adam DIDN’T, then Eve would have been cast out and Adam would what? Be stuck there until God made him another partner?

It’s interesting to ponder.

Jewish aggadah gives us the story of Lilith, who was Adam’s first wife, before Eve. She was tossed out for being too much of a bitch, that is, demanding that Adam and God treat her as an equal. After ejection she’s responsible for all kinds of evil sexytime nastiness throughout legend and history.

It’s probably an echo of earlier Fertile Crescent myths where the first man and first woman were formed at the same time, equally, out of the mud.

168 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 21, 2014 11:56:32pm

re: #166 Higgs Boson’s Mate

cockpit voice could be hacked

But that’s the most important thing, not the other, useless one.


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