The Terms of Kerry’s Israel-Hamas Cease-Fire Proposal - Update: Israel Rejects Kerry Proposal

Attempting diplomacy to stop the killing
Middle East • Views: 53,613

Via Haaretz, here are the terms of the Israel-Hamas cease-fire proposal from US Secretary of State John Kerry.

Kerry’s initiative stipulates the following terms:

1. A one-week, temporary cease-fire, starting Sunday, during which Israel Defense Forces troops will not leave the Gaza Strip entirely and will continue to locate and destroy Hamas tunnels.

2. During this cease-fire, Israel and Hamas will begin negotiations on a more permanent arrangement, with Egyptian mediation. The Palestinian Authority will participate in these talks.

3. The United States, the UN secretary-general and the European Union will provide guarantees to both sides that the negotiations will deal with the issues important to them - for Israel, disarming Gaza of its rockets and tunnels, and for Hamas, ending the blockade of Gaza and repairing the damage the Strip has suffered.

UPDATE at 7/25/14 11:17:03 am by Charles Johnson

As soon as I posted this I saw the latest live update — the Israeli cabinet has rejected Kerry’s proposal: LIVE UPDATES.

8:34 P.M. Israeli cabinet rejects John Kerry’s cease-fire proposal, according to a senior Israeli official. Discussions continue on how to improve the proposal in Israel’s favor.

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182 comments
1 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Jul 25, 2014 11:16:16am

Sounds like a relative no brainer. Which of course means all sides will reject it and will be back to killing each other soon enough.

2 Romantic Heretic  Jul 25, 2014 11:16:36am

What does it say about me that my first reaction to this news was to snort cynically?

3 Kragar  Jul 25, 2014 11:16:37am

And let the reflexive outrage begin

4 Pie-onist Overlord  Jul 25, 2014 11:17:00am

Fuck it, nothing gets past the Apartheid Paywall.

(I exceeded the limit of 10 free articles/month)

5 b.d.  Jul 25, 2014 11:17:20am

Why wait until Sunday? Because you can’t stop a war on religious observance days?

6 Charles Johnson  Jul 25, 2014 11:17:29am

As soon as I posted this I saw the latest live update — the Israeli cabinet has rejected Kerry’s proposal: LIVE UPDATES.

8:34 P.M. Israeli cabinet rejects John Kerry’s cease-fire proposal, according to a senior Israeli official. Discussions continue on how to improve the proposal in Israel’s favor.

7 Charles Johnson  Jul 25, 2014 11:17:52am

re: #4 Pie-onist Overlord

Fuck it, nothing gets past the Apartheid Paywall.

(I exceeded the limit of 10 free articles/month)

Just Google the title and click through from there to get around the paywall.

8 b.d.  Jul 25, 2014 11:18:55am

Is Bloomberg still over there? Surely he can get all of this settled.

//

9 Decatur Deb  Jul 25, 2014 11:19:11am

re: #3 Kragar

And let the reflexive outrage begin

We don’t negotiate with the Viet Cong terrorists !!

10 Pie-onist Overlord  Jul 25, 2014 11:19:16am
11 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 25, 2014 11:19:27am

re: #7 Charles Johnson

Just Google the title and click through from there to get around the paywall.

Works for WSJ too.

12 Pie-onist Overlord  Jul 25, 2014 11:19:47am

re: #7 Charles Johnson

Just Google the title and click through from there to get around the paywall.

Won’t work, Iron Paywall intercepted the browser rocket.

13 Decatur Deb  Jul 25, 2014 11:20:03am

re: #6 Charles Johnson

As soon as I posted this I saw the latest live update — the Israeli cabinet has rejected Kerry’s proposal: LIVE UPDATES.

Well, at least Kerry and Hamas can agree not to shoot at each other.

14 Pie-onist Overlord  Jul 25, 2014 11:20:09am
15 b.d.  Jul 25, 2014 11:20:20am

re: #12 Pie-onist Overlord

Won’t work, Iron Paywall intercepted the browser rocket.

Did you try tunneling?

16 Killgore Trout  Jul 25, 2014 11:20:21am

Hamas is not going to negotiate away their missiles and tunnels. I’m sure Israel will be more than happy to negotiate their rebuilding after the missiles and tunnels have been removed.

17 b.d.  Jul 25, 2014 11:21:22am

re: #13 Decatur Deb

Well, at least Kerry and Hamas can agree not to shoot at each other.

It’s a start.

I wonder what would be happening if SoS Clinton was still at the helm?

18 Decatur Deb  Jul 25, 2014 11:21:49am

re: #14 Pie-onist Overlord

Multiple interceptions north of Ben Gurion international just now.

# 13 Well, at least Kerry and Hamas can agree not to shoot at each other.

Perhaps I was too optimistic.

19 Decatur Deb  Jul 25, 2014 11:23:19am

re: #17 b.d.

It’s a start.

I wonder what would be happening if SoS Clinton was still at the helm?

Benghazi Ashkelon !!

20 Killgore Trout  Jul 25, 2014 11:23:30am

re: #17 b.d.

It’s a start.

I wonder what would be happening if SoS Clinton was still at the helm?

I don’t think anything would be different, the proposal would be the same regardless of the messenger. I don’t think Kerry botched the message delivery.

21 Romantic Heretic  Jul 25, 2014 11:26:43am

re: #6 Charles Johnson

As soon as I posted this I saw the latest live update — the Israeli cabinet has rejected Kerry’s proposal: LIVE UPDATES.

That took longer than I thought. /

22 lawhawk  Jul 25, 2014 11:29:59am

Hamas rejected the ceasefire before Israel could get to reject it for being too favorable to Hamas.

Wrap your head around that.

Israel isn’t doing itself any favors by cracking down on protests in the West Bank - potentially opening up a new front and a new Intifada when it can’t deal with the situation in Gaza. The US proposal was open-ended in letting Israel go after Hamas tunnels across the border into Israel.

And on those tunnels, here’s why Israel acted the way it has. It appears that those tunnels were going to be part of a blitz against Israel at a time and place of Hamas’ choosing. Tunnels revealed by the IDF have contained IDF uniforms and detailed maps and other details about nearby Israeli villages and kibbutzim near the Gaza border.

The intent is clear - Hamas wanted to do something huge against Israel, on a scale they have never tried before (prior attacks involved going after individual IDF units or individuals near the border). These finds would indicate far bigger targets in mind.

Consider the possibility of a coordinated infiltration across the border. Carry out a surprise attack on a day like Yom Kippur or Rosh HaShana. A simultaneous surprise attack with the intent to cause mass casualties; with the possibility of coordinated rocket attacks from Gaza and Lebanon.

That’s why Israel did what it did in going after the tunnels.

It’s why Hamas is fighting the way it in return. Hamas is watching 5+ years of its tunneling work get revealed and destroyed by the IDF (the years since Cast Lead)

23 jaunte  Jul 25, 2014 11:32:23am
Not only was the burrow remarkable in depth and length — 1.5 miles long and 66 feet underground — it was equipped with electricity and contained enough cookies, yogurt and other provisions to last its occupants several months. Israeli forces estimated that Hamas had dumped $10 million and 800 tons of concrete into the two-year project.
washingtonpost.com

That could have housed and fed a lot of people.

24 Decatur Deb  Jul 25, 2014 11:33:33am

re: #22 lawhawk

Hamas rejected the ceasefire before Israel could get to reject it for being too favorable to Hamas.

Wrap your head around that.

Israel isn’t doing itself any favors by cracking down on protests in the West Bank - potentially opening up a new front and a new Intifada when it can’t deal with the situation in Gaza. The US proposal was open-ended in letting Israel go after Hamas tunnels across the border into Israel.

And on those tunnels, here’s why Israel acted the way it has. It appears that those tunnels were going to be part of a blitz against Israel at a time and place of Hamas’ choosing. Tunnels revealed by the IDF have contained hundreds of IDF uniforms and detailed maps and other details about nearby Israeli villages and kibbutzim near the Gaza border.

The intent is clear - Hamas wanted to do something huge against Israel, on a scale they have never tried before (prior attacks involved going after individual IDF units or individuals near the border). These finds would indicate far bigger targets in mind.

Consider the possibility of a coordinated infiltration across the border. Carry out a surprise attack on a day like Yom Kippur or Rosh HaShana. A simultaneous surprise attack with the intent to cause mass casualties; with the possibility of coordinated rocket attacks from Gaza and Lebanon.

That’s why Israel did what it did in going after the tunnels.

It’s why Hamas is fighting the way it in return. Hamas is watching 5+ years of its tunneling work get revealed and destroyed by the IDF (the years since Cast Lead)

Military Geophysics is an actual thing. The Norks were trying tunneling against us 30 years ago. It’s so dumb that the Eight Army teams would sometimes let them dig for months on end before we dropped the roof on them.

25 Charles Johnson  Jul 25, 2014 11:34:41am

Meanwhile…

26 Charles Johnson  Jul 25, 2014 11:36:24am

re: #22 lawhawk

Not doubting your analysis here, but I can’t find where it says hundreds of IDF uniforms were discovered in that Washington Post article.

27 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Jul 25, 2014 11:38:02am

looks like whatever’s wrong with Kansas may be being fixed:

Poll had Davis (D) ahead of Brownback (R) by 8

28 Pie-onist Overlord  Jul 25, 2014 11:38:23am

re: #26 Charles Johnson

Not doubting your analysis here, but I can’t find where it says hundreds of IDF uniforms were discovered in that Washington Post article.

On Saturday, in what The Washington Post called an “audacious attack,” Hamas fighters wearing Israeli army uniforms slipped from central Gaza into Israel through a tunnel and attacked an Israeli army patrol, killing two soldiers.

29 Kragar  Jul 25, 2014 11:39:10am

re: #27 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

looks like whatever’s wrong with Kansas may be being fixed:

Poll had Davis (D) ahead of Brownback (R) by 8

That can’t be right. Conservatism never loses.

Maybe that means Brownback isn’t a real conservative….

RINO!

30 Pie-onist Overlord  Jul 25, 2014 11:39:11am

HURR HURR!!! TEH DEMOCRATS CAUSED BUSH’S WARS & TAX CUTS!!!!!

31 Killgore Trout  Jul 25, 2014 11:39:42am

re: #26 Charles Johnson

Not doubting your analysis here, but I can’t find where it says hundreds of IDF uniforms were discovered in that Washington Post article.

jpost.com

32 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Jul 25, 2014 11:41:29am

re: #29 Kragar

That can’t be right. Conservatism never loses.

Maybe that means Brownback isn’t a real conservative….

RINO!

It’s also throwing some other CW on its head because Davis has huge leads among seniors and those 50-64

In a breakdown, the poll reveals the older you are, the less you like Governor Sam Brownback. He trails by 20 points among seniors, and trails by 13 points among those age 50 to 64.

33 wrenchwench  Jul 25, 2014 11:43:20am
34 lawhawk  Jul 25, 2014 11:43:53am

re: #22 lawhawk

And now I’m seeing reports that dispute that the Kerry proposal allowed the Israelis to continue ops against the tunnels in Gaza (allowing them to essentially continue the fight inside Gaza), but rather would have required the Israelis to pull back the ground forces inside Gaza.

Ha’aretz is continuing to report the original claim that IDF would continue tunnel ops.

It looks like there were several versions being contemplated, but Hamas wasn’t going to accept any of them without pushing all kinds of preconditions (like prisoner releases):

According to the source who spoke to the New York Time, Kerry is offering a two prong solution which begins on Sunday with a seven day hiatus in fighting.

In the second stage, the moment the temporary ceasefire comes into effect, Israeli and Palestinian officials - and international delegates - will begin negotiating the security, economic, and political issues of the Gaza Strip.

The source said one major disagreement was over Israel’s wish to leave soldiers in Gaza during the ceasefire. Government spokesman Mark Regev said Hamas chief Khaled Mashal has “put so many preconditions on a cease-fire so as to make it impossible.”

However, Palestinian sources spoke to Al-Hayat and said Hamas had agreed, in principle, to a different ceasefire deal, according to which the humanitarian ceasefire will last for five days and begin on Saturday.

The report did indicate however, that Hamas had demanded guarantees on additional issues like the release of prisoners and the expansion of fishing rights.

According to the report, Kerry gave a guarantee that the siege of Gaza would end when a ceasefire is reached without any additional warranties such as the release of prisoners. The newspaper reported that during the five day ceasefire, negotiations would be held in Cairo to come to reach a permanent agreement.

Oh, and the al Wafa hospital? That was apparently one of the tunnel origination points.

35 Killgore Trout  Jul 25, 2014 11:47:43am

re: #34 lawhawk

Oh, and the al Wafa hospital? That was apparently one of the tunnel origination points.

Those Hamas guys must have legendary ninja skills to move tons of dirt, concrete and weapons in and out of that hospital without staff, administrators or patients noticing.

36 William Barnett-Lewis  Jul 25, 2014 11:50:52am

re: #4 Pie-onist Overlord

Fuck it, nothing gets past the Apartheid Paywall.

(I exceeded the limit of 10 free articles/month)

Try shutting off Javascript. That works with the NYTimes paywall.

37 Lidane  Jul 25, 2014 11:52:28am

re: #29 Kragar

That can’t be right. Conservatism never loses.

True, but it shits the bed in fear of a non-existent threat:

Rafael Cruz Predicts Obama Will Seize Guns Just As Stalin Did Before Killing Millions

Cruz, who regularly preaches Christian Nationalist pseudo-history, said that Obama has a “worldview based upon a totalitarian view of government being all powerful,” and is bent on “destroying the exceptionalism of America” by ratifying the Law of the Seas Treaty.

After host Dave Garrison asked if “President Obama wants to take our guns as part of this worldview,” Cruz responded: “Well, of course, you have got to realize that is all about control. You look at history, Stalin took out the guns, then killed twenty million people; Mao took out the guns, then killed fifty million people. Every society where government has taken the guns away from the population, then they’ve used them against the population.”

38 lawhawk  Jul 25, 2014 11:52:45am

re: #35 Killgore Trout

Not necessarily. IDF has found and reported that the tunnelers were using covert methods to hide the material they were digging out . Putting them in sacks and other items for dispersal elsewhere.

Think of it as a modern take on the Great Escape’s socks dispersing the Tom/Dick/Harry tunnel spoils.

Youtube Video

As for bringing the materials in, it’s possible that they could say that they’re doing foundation work.

39 Charles Johnson  Jul 25, 2014 11:53:44am
40 wrenchwench  Jul 25, 2014 11:54:15am
41 HappyWarrior  Jul 25, 2014 11:57:03am

re: #37 Lidane

True, but it shits the bed in fear of a non-existent threat:

Rafael Cruz Predicts Obama Will Seize Guns Just As Stalin Did Before Killing Millions

Because murderous tyrants wait to do these sort of things. Really Raffy if Obama wanted to do that, he would have done it early on but shocker he hasn’t. Why? Because he’s not the murderous tyrant that you fantasize about because of you and your son’s massive delusions of grandeur that you need to make yourselves feel better.

42 wrenchwench  Jul 25, 2014 11:57:31am

re: #39 Charles Johnson

I thought they were all conservatives at Buzzfeed, hiding behind cute kittehs.

43 HappyWarrior  Jul 25, 2014 11:58:07am

re: #42 wrenchwench

I thought they were all conservatives at Buzzfeed, hiding behind cute kittehs.

Speaking of Buzzfeed, the Onion’s parody of it is simply awesome.

44 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 25, 2014 11:58:20am

Some paywalls can be deleted through a browser that allows editing the site structure. Simply delete the respective layers, and voila (e.g. The Onion).

45 Bulworth  Jul 25, 2014 11:59:26am

re:
#39

Chances are you’re in not in the 20% of Americans who support the blasphemous Ground Zero mega-mosque.

Well, this promises to be a reasoned, thoughtful piece of writing……

46 Kragar  Jul 25, 2014 12:01:13pm
47 Killgore Trout  Jul 25, 2014 12:02:31pm

re: #38 lawhawk

Not necessarily. IDF has found and reported that the tunnelers were using covert methods to hide the material they were digging out . Putting them in sacks and other items for dispersal elsewhere.

Think of it as a modern take on the Great Escape’s socks dispersing the Tom/Dick/Harry tunnel spoils.

[Embedded content]

As for bringing the materials in, it’s possible that they could say that they’re doing foundation work.

I find it hard to believe there’s no cooperation between the people in the hospital and the tunnel diggers. The tunnel from the hospital is about 2.5 kilometers long, I’m guessing maybe 60 ft deep. That would require months of around the clock digging. I don’t think it would be practical without anyone knowing. My guess is that it’s an open secret. Everybody knows but they’re careful not to talk about it too much.

48 HappyWarrior  Jul 25, 2014 12:02:41pm

re: #46 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Surprised she doesn’t want to stay in Congress and have battles with Jody Hice about who can say the most absurd things about gay people.

49 Decatur Deb  Jul 25, 2014 12:03:59pm

re: #47 Killgore Trout

I find it hard to believe there’s no cooperation between the people in the hospital and the tunnel diggers. The tunnel from the hospital is about 2.5 kilometers long, I’m guessing maybe 60 ft deep. That would require months of around the clock digging. I don’t think it would be practical without anyone knowing. My guess is that it’s an open secret. Everybody knows but they’re careful not to talk about it too much.

A tunnel is allowed to have more than one opening. (In fact, at least two are highly recommended.)

50 Charles Johnson  Jul 25, 2014 12:05:12pm

re: #31 Killgore Trout

Again… that doesn’t say “hundreds” of IDF uniforms. Just want to be accurate here.

51 GeneJockey  Jul 25, 2014 12:05:14pm

re: #37 Lidane

True, but it shits the bed in fear of a non-existent threat:

Rafael Cruz Predicts Obama Will Seize Guns Just As Stalin Did Before Killing Millions

“Every society where government has taken the guns away from the population, then they’ve used them against the population.”

Why, I remember the millions killed in Great Britain and Australia after they passed restrictive gun laws….

Oh, wait.

Seriously, though - the thought process is just remarkable - Obama said something about sensible gun laws after at least one mass killing, and supports the reinstatement of the AWB - as Bush did - and didn’t do much to achieve it - also as Bush did. This is evidence that he wants to take ALL the guns away!!! And since he wants to take all the guns away, it means he’s planning to kill millions of Americans!!!

So, even the hint that you might favor some minor restrictions on guns - even the ones Saint Ronald Reagan supported and lobbied for - is evidence you want to kill millions of Americans.

He’s fucking certifiable.

52 Killgore Trout  Jul 25, 2014 12:05:26pm

In terms of secrecy it would be much better to dig a tunnel from a house where just a few people would know what’s going on. Hamas likes the hospital not because it’s secret but because it’s safer from Israeli targeting.

53 Killgore Trout  Jul 25, 2014 12:06:09pm

re: #50 Charles Johnson

Again… that doesn’t say “hundreds” of IDF uniforms. Just want to be accurate here.

ah, ok. Not sure how many uniforms have been found.

54 lawhawk  Jul 25, 2014 12:07:40pm

re: #50 Charles Johnson

Again… that doesn’t say “hundreds” of IDF uniforms. Just want to be accurate here.

I’m going to retract the 100s (and edit if there’s time in the original post). Saw the 100s in other places and via an email that relates this particular account, but not verified sources.

[time is up in the original post], but I’m retracting the 100s claim for now although the IDF has publicly related finding unforms and IDF kit among tunnels they’ve discovered.

Moreover, at least one infiltration attack involved Hamas members wearing IDF kit.

55 Killgore Trout  Jul 25, 2014 12:08:11pm
56 HappyWarrior  Jul 25, 2014 12:08:55pm

re: #51 GeneJockey

Why, I remember the millions killed in Great Britain and Australia after they passed restrictive gun laws….

Oh, wait.

Seriously, though - the thought process is just remarkable - Obama said something about sensible gun laws after at least one mass killing, and supports the reinstatement of the AWB - as Bush did - and didn’t do much to achieve it - also as Bush did. This is evidence that he wants to take ALL the guns away!!! And since he wants to take all the guns away, it means he’s planning to kill millions of Americans!!!

So, even the hint that you might favor some minor restrictions on guns - even the ones Saint Ronald Reagan supported and lobbied for - is evidence you want to kill millions of Americans.

He’s fucking certifiable.

Like father, like son. Really, what Rafael Cruz is doing is the same shit that Wayne LaPierre and the NRA have been doing for years. Claiming that a government takeaway of YOUR GUNZ is coming soon and they’re doing it because they want to kill you and yours. What they end up doing is creating more and more guns in the hands of people who want any excuse to gun hoard but creating an environment of paranoia and mistrust. People like Cruz Sr are why we have people being shot over such petty crap. You’d think that the older Cruz would have some perspective given his experiences but instead he chooses to be a paranoid bigot for his son. Got news for you Rafael, your son will never be president so you may as well stop with the paranoid crap. It’s not going to help him or anyone in this country.

57 Decatur Deb  Jul 25, 2014 12:11:54pm

Hamas R&D—Elastomeric Jihadi Insertion Team

Image: Poza-Articol6.png

58 Killgore Trout  Jul 25, 2014 12:11:55pm

Egypt sides with Israel in conflict with HamasThe Egyptians don’t want Hamas left with tunnels, rockets and other terrorist bargaining chips either. There’s still work to be done before the negotiations can begin.

59 Rightwingconspirator  Jul 25, 2014 12:12:24pm

Want a cease fire? If Hamas had ceased firing missiles the attacks would
A) Not have happened and B) be easy to put a stop to shortly. I offer one salient fact in support of this harsh review-Every time Hamas or the PLO stopped attacks, Israel acted accordingly in a military sense.

60 BeachDem  Jul 25, 2014 12:13:02pm

re: #41 HappyWarrior

Because murderous tyrants wait to do these sort of things. Really Raffy if Obama wanted to do that, he would have done it early on but shocker he hasn’t. Why? Because he’s not the murderous tyrant that you fantasize about because of you and your son’s massive delusions of grandeur that you need to make yourselves feel better.

Who in their right mind would want to govern these loons in the long run?

I would tend to think that, on many days, Obama is counting the minutes until he is “former President;” when he doesn’t have to deal with asshat RWNJs on a daily basis; when his wife and daughters will not be vilified for having the audacity to draw breath.

I envision him and Michelle starting some kind of global initiative for children’s health, or something similar.

61 lawhawk  Jul 25, 2014 12:13:19pm

OT:

And this happened today…

62 Pie-onist Overlord  Jul 25, 2014 12:13:40pm

National Geographic did a feature article on the Gaza tunnels last year. Not the Hamas tunnels, but the tunnels that are used for smuggling consumer goods.

63 HappyWarrior  Jul 25, 2014 12:14:22pm

re: #60 BeachDem

Who in their right mind would want to govern these loons in the long run?

I would tend to think that, on many days, Obama is counting the minutes until he is “former President;” when he doesn’t have to deal with asshat RWNJs on a daily basis; when his wife and daughters will not be vilified for having the audacity to draw breath.

I envision him and Michelle starting some kind of global initiative for children’s health, or something similar.

I’m looking forward to his memoirs. No president has inspired so much hatred and paranoid accusations.

64 lawhawk  Jul 25, 2014 12:14:41pm

Wait. What?

65 Decatur Deb  Jul 25, 2014 12:15:12pm

re: #62 Pie-onist Overlord

National Geographic did a feature article on the Gaza tunnels last year. Not the Hamas tunnels, but the tunnels that are used for smuggling consumer goods.

That kind of tunnel makes sense. Both ends are sort of secure, and probably away from prying sensors.

66 RealityBasedSteve  Jul 25, 2014 12:15:14pm

re: #41 HappyWarrior

Because murderous tyrants wait to do these sort of things. Really Raffy if Obama wanted to do that, he would have done it early on but shocker he hasn’t. Why? Because he’s not the murderous tyrant that you fantasize about because of you and your son’s massive delusions of grandeur that you need to make yourselves feel better.

When it’s clear that Shillery will lose the election in a landslide to Cruz, Obummer is going to stage an incident (remember…”Never let a good incident go to waste”) At that point he will declare Martial Law and his civilian forces will start confiscating our guns. Then we’ll see where those billions and billions of rounds of ammo went. I’ve got my SHTF Bags ready, and the wife and I will be in the country for month prior to the election. WOLVERINES!!!!1!

I wish this was just so beyond what I know we’ll be seeing in the not-too-distant future, but we know the derp is out there. Question is will it be WND, Dim Jim or Breitbart that will break the story first?

RBS

67 Killgore Trout  Jul 25, 2014 12:15:37pm

re: #59 Rightwingconspirator

Want a cease fire? If Hamas had ceased firing missiles the attacks would
A) Not have happened and B) be easy to put a stop to shortly. I offer one salient fact in support of this harsh review-Every time Hamas or the PLO stopped attacks, Israel acted accordingly in a military sense.

If they stopped smuggling in weapons and digging tunnels Israel and Egypt would be happy to open the southern crossings. Everybody’s just waiting for the Palestinians.

68 CuriousLurker  Jul 25, 2014 12:15:55pm

re: #59 Rightwingconspirator

Want a cease fire? If Hamas had ceased firing missiles the attacks would
A) Not have happened and B) be easy to put a stop to shortly. I offer one salient fact in support of this harsh review-Every time Hamas or the PLO stopped attacks, Israel acted accordingly in a military sense.

Sounds simple except for one thing: Who in Gaza can make them stop?

69 lawhawk  Jul 25, 2014 12:16:03pm

re: #62 Pie-onist Overlord

Linky:

news.nationalgeographic.com

70 HappyWarrior  Jul 25, 2014 12:16:30pm

It’s a miracle that Obama hasn’t been assassinated honestly.

71 Kragar  Jul 25, 2014 12:16:35pm
72 makeitstop  Jul 25, 2014 12:17:09pm

re: #62 Pie-onist Overlord

National Geographic did a feature article on the Gaza tunnels last year. Not the Hamas tunnels, but the tunnels that are used for smuggling consumer goods.

I read that. It’s on their site, too.

The Tunnels of Gaza

73 Killgore Trout  Jul 25, 2014 12:17:20pm

re: #64 lawhawk

Wait. What?

[Embedded content]

There’s some nuance…
reuters.com

Israel rejected on Friday international proposals for a ceasefire in its fight against Islamist militants in Gaza, but is discussing changes to the truce plan with U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry, a government source said.

74 lawhawk  Jul 25, 2014 12:17:33pm

re: #71 Kragar

Mr. Crap-in-his-pants-to-avoid-draft says what?

75 CuriousLurker  Jul 25, 2014 12:17:57pm

re: #67 Killgore Trout

If they stopped smuggling in weapons and digging tunnels Israel and Egypt would be happy to open the southern crossings. Everybody’s just waiting for the Palestinians.

I’ll ask you the same thing I asked RWC: How do you propose “the Palestinians” (I assume you mean Gazan civilians) stop them?

76 HappyWarrior  Jul 25, 2014 12:18:11pm

re: #71 Kragar

[Embedded content]

You know a guy who shat his pants willingly shouldn’t be calling anyone smelly. Ted should realize that his actions and words have you know coincidences but I understand Ted, he’s a conservative, he thinks those things are for everyone but him.

77 Pie-onist Overlord  Jul 25, 2014 12:18:11pm

re: #70 HappyWarrior

It’s a miracle that Obama hasn’t been assassinated honestly.

It’s not a “miracle” it is due to the diligence of Secret Service, FBI and NSA.

78 Decatur Deb  Jul 25, 2014 12:18:30pm

re: #71 Kragar

[Embedded content]

If I had shit my pants for the draft board, I would never say ‘smelly’ again.

79 HappyWarrior  Jul 25, 2014 12:19:14pm

re: #77 Pie-onist Overlord

It’s not a “miracle” it is due to the diligence of Secret Service, FBI and NSA.

I know. It’s actually though come to think of it pretty amazing we haven’t had a presidential assassination in over 50 years but again credit to the Secret Service and others there.

80 Killgore Trout  Jul 25, 2014 12:19:24pm

re: #75 CuriousLurker

I’ll ask you the same thing I asked RWC: How do you propose “the Palestinians” (assume you mean Gazan civilians) stop them?

I don’t think Palestinian civilians can make them stop but the Israelis can.

82 Kragar  Jul 25, 2014 12:21:04pm

“He then lamented that his critics use “nasty, hateful” words against him, which we know Ted Nugent would never do.”

Man, my sarcasm meter just buried its needle.

83 Charles Johnson  Jul 25, 2014 12:21:11pm

re: #54 lawhawk

I’m going to retract the 100s (and edit if there’s time in the original post). Saw the 100s in other places and via an email that relates this particular account, but not verified sources.

I went ahead and corrected your comment, since I think it was past the editing time limit.

84 HappyWarrior  Jul 25, 2014 12:21:34pm

re: #81 Lidane

*sigh*

House votes to bar Obama from sending troops to Iraq without authorization

Laser like focus on jobs.

85 Decatur Deb  Jul 25, 2014 12:21:35pm

re: #79 HappyWarrior

I know. It’s actually though come to think of it pretty amazing we haven’t had a presidential assassination in over 50 years but again credit to the Secret Service and others there.

Several attempts and a wounding, even if you don’t count the ricin attack on Obama’s mail.

86 CuriousLurker  Jul 25, 2014 12:21:36pm

re: #80 Killgore Trout

I don’t think Palestinian civilians can make them stop but the Israelis can.

That’s not what you said. Here’s what you said:

re: #67 Killgore Trout

If they stopped smuggling in weapons and digging tunnels Israel and Egypt would be happy to open the southern crossings. Everybody’s just waiting for the Palestinians.

87 RealityBasedSteve  Jul 25, 2014 12:21:49pm

re: #71 Kragar
Ted Nugent Derides His Critics As Smelly, Dirty Communists Who Hate America | Right Wing Watch rightwingwatch.org … via @rightwingwatch

[Embedded content]

He says things knowing that it will endear him to his ‘hard core base’, but what he doesn’t seem to realize is that I strongly suspect that the vast majority of Americans simply know him as a musician, and are vaguely, if at all, aware of the level of his unbridled hatred for the President. Organizations that want to book him however are well aware of how something like this can bounce on them, and I don’t agree that he’ll be doing car wash openings…. he’ll be wishing to get that good a booking.

88 Pie-onist Overlord  Jul 25, 2014 12:22:35pm

re: #79 HappyWarrior

I know. It’s actually though come to think of it pretty amazing we haven’t had a presidential assassination attempt in over 50 30 years but again credit to the Secret Service and others there.

FTFY

89 Pie-onist Overlord  Jul 25, 2014 12:23:06pm

WTFITS

90 TedStriker  Jul 25, 2014 12:23:26pm

re: #71 Kragar

That’s rich, considering that ol’ Uncle Ted is an admitted draft-dodging sonofabitch…

91 HappyWarrior  Jul 25, 2014 12:23:35pm

re: #82 Kragar

“He then lamented that his critics use “nasty, hateful” words against him, which we know Ted Nugent would never do.”

Man, my sarcasm meter just buried its needle.

Are we sure that the real Ted Nugent didn’t die years ago and he was replaced by some surrealist comedian? Because that’s rich right there. The guy who calls people sub-human vermin is complaining about being called names. Only none of the people who cancelled his show called him names. They did point how Shitty McShitpants has a history of hateful rhetoric but that’s his own fault.

92 Lidane  Jul 25, 2014 12:23:44pm

re: #82 Kragar

Man, my sarcasm meter just buried its needle.

Mine exploded. Good thing I bought a bunch of them from ACME.

93 HappyWarrior  Jul 25, 2014 12:24:14pm

re: #88 Pie-onist Overlord

FTFY

We had one on Clinton and Bush I thought. Granted no where near as serious as the one on Reagan.

94 HappyWarrior  Jul 25, 2014 12:25:07pm

re: #85 Decatur Deb

Several attempts and a wounding, even if you don’t count the ricin attack on Obama’s mail.

Well that’s inevitable honestly but the fact we’ve gone this long amazes me. VB’s right. Credit needs to be given to the Secret Service, NSA, and FBI here.

95 Decatur Deb  Jul 25, 2014 12:25:20pm

re: #88 Pie-onist Overlord

FTFY

Fix it again, considering the nutcase who did send ricin through the mail to Obama to frame her ex. Not a classical political assassination, perhaps, but close.

96 wrenchwench  Jul 25, 2014 12:25:34pm
97 RealityBasedSteve  Jul 25, 2014 12:25:40pm

re: #89 Pie-onist Overlord

WTFITS

[Embedded content]

Because that’s their end game. I know a number of people who are convinced that any kind of birth control is a sin against God, had contributed to the destruction of the Family, and brought about social anarchy. If we only get rid of BC, then all will be rightly ordered again.

Wish I was making that stuff up.

RBS

98 Kragar  Jul 25, 2014 12:25:56pm

re: #89 Pie-onist Overlord

WTFITS

[Embedded content]

99 HappyWarrior  Jul 25, 2014 12:26:06pm

re: #96 wrenchwench

[Embedded content]

There’s that pro family party at work!

100 makeitstop  Jul 25, 2014 12:26:28pm

re: #81 Lidane

*sigh*

House votes to bar Obama from sending troops to Iraq without authorization

Hasn’t that particular cow left the barn already?

101 wrenchwench  Jul 25, 2014 12:27:05pm

re: #99 HappyWarrior

There’s that pro family party at work!

Forced birth. Then forced starvation. Plenty of cheap labor.

102 Decatur Deb  Jul 25, 2014 12:27:31pm

re: #94 HappyWarrior

Well that’s inevitable honestly but the fact we’ve gone this long amazes me. VB’s right. Credit needs to be given to the Secret Service, NSA, and FBI here.

But…but.. but. They read our metadata !!!

103 HappyWarrior  Jul 25, 2014 12:28:04pm

re: #98 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Zealot is being kind. Deranged lunatic is more like it. Don’t want to use contraception yourself, fine but wanting to eradicate it completely is the mark of a deranged lunatic. Contraception is one of the oldest things in the book. But this is our religious right front and center where overturning Roe is not enough, no gotta overturn Eisenstadt and Griswold too.

104 wrenchwench  Jul 25, 2014 12:28:58pm

re: #100 makeitstop

Hasn’t that particular cow left the barn already?

That cow left the barn, caught a bus to California, spent a few years hanging out at the beach, went home tanned and rested, and went back into the barn.

105 Romantic Heretic  Jul 25, 2014 12:29:13pm

re: #47 Killgore Trout

I find it hard to believe there’s no cooperation between the people in the hospital and the tunnel diggers. The tunnel from the hospital is about 2.5 kilometers long, I’m guessing maybe 60 ft deep. That would require months of around the clock digging. I don’t think it would be practical without anyone knowing. My guess is that it’s an open secret. Everybody knows but they’re careful not to talk about it too much.

And what are they going to do about it?

Tell the Israelis hoping Hamas doesn’t find out and kill their families along with, perhaps, some of their patients?

Tell the UN, who have no power to do anything hoping Hamas doesn’t find out and kill their families along with, perhaps, some of their patients?

Alert the authorities, who are Hamas and will kill their families along with, perhaps, some of their patients?

Seriously, what could the staffs of the hospitals do to stop Hamas?

106 Lidane  Jul 25, 2014 12:29:33pm

WTFITS:

ESPN Panelist: Women Should Try Not To ‘Provoke’ Domestic Violence (VIDEO)

An ESPN host who suggested Friday that women should try not to “provoke” domestic violence only seemed to make matters worse by later insisting on Twitter that he wasn’t “blaming” women for anything.

Provocative “First Take” panelist Stephen A. Smith was discussing the National Football League’s decision to suspend Baltimore Ravens running back Ray Rice for two games, after he was indicted for allegedly physically assaulting his then-fiancee. The suspension was widely panned as lenient.

Lenient? He got suspended for two games for hitting his fiancee. Smoking weed gets a longer suspension than that in the NFL.

107 Killgore Trout  Jul 25, 2014 12:29:39pm

re: #86 CuriousLurker

That’s not what you said. Here’s what you said:

Yes, everybody’s waiting for the Palestinian side to make the inevitable decision to stop using terrorism. The Egyptians and Israelis would have no problem opening the southern border crossings if the Palestinians stopped with the terrorism.

108 Pie-onist Overlord  Jul 25, 2014 12:29:50pm

re: #101 wrenchwench

Forced birth. Then forced starvation. Plenty of cheap labor.

109 GeneJockey  Jul 25, 2014 12:29:58pm

re: #87 RealityBasedSteve

Ted Nugent Derides His Critics As Smelly, Dirty Communists Who Hate America | Right Wing Watch rightwingwatch.org … via @rightwingwatch

He says things knowing that it will endear him to his ‘hard core base’, but what he doesn’t seem to realize is that I strongly suspect that the vast majority of Americans simply know him as a musician, and are vaguely, if at all, aware of the level of his unbridled hatred for the President. Organizations that want to book him however are well aware of how something like this can bounce on them, and I don’t agree that he’ll be doing car wash openings…. he’ll be wishing to get that good a booking.

I think you overstate how many Americans know him at all. I’d say a minority may have heard of him as some kind of musician but couldn’t name one of his songs, and a smaller minority know about his continuing hateful spew, and either love him for it or think he’s an asshole.

110 Lidane  Jul 25, 2014 12:30:06pm

re: #100 makeitstop

Hasn’t that particular cow left the barn already?

Left the barn, wandered over to the slaughterhouse, and sent to Walmart for a quick sale.

111 Decatur Deb  Jul 25, 2014 12:30:21pm

re: #104 wrenchwench

That cow left the barn, caught a bus to California, spent a few years hanging out at the beach, went home tanned and rested, and went back into the barn.

Obama needs to sign an executive order prohibiting congressional suicides.

112 Kragar  Jul 25, 2014 12:30:28pm

re: #103 HappyWarrior

Zealot is being kind. Deranged lunatic is more like it. Don’t want to use contraception yourself, fine but wanting to eradicate it completely is the mark of a deranged lunatic. Contraception is one of the oldest things in the book. But this is our religious right front and center where overturning Roe is not enough, no gotta overturn Eisenstadt and Griswold too.

Don’t believe in contraception? Don’t use it.

Don’t believe in abortion? Don’t have one.

Don’t believe in Same Sex Marriage? Don’t marry someone the same sex as you.

Now tell us more about how you want the government to stop regulating individuals.

113 RealityBasedSteve  Jul 25, 2014 12:30:33pm

re: #103 HappyWarrior

Zealot is being kind. Deranged lunatic is more like it. Don’t want to use contraception yourself, fine but wanting to eradicate it completely is the mark of a deranged lunatic. Contraception is one of the oldest things in the book. But this is our religious right front and center where overturning Roe is not enough, no gotta overturn Eisenstadt and Griswold too.

That’s the whole thing behind the Eden Foods challenge to the ACA. They want to provide NO BC coverage at all, since as devout Catholics, it’s a mortal sin in their view. salon.com

RBS

114 Killgore Trout  Jul 25, 2014 12:30:58pm

re: #105 Romantic Heretic

Seriously, what could the staffs of the hospitals do to stop Hamas?

Not much can be done t stop them but maybe not vote for them in the next election.

115 Decatur Deb  Jul 25, 2014 12:31:30pm

re: #107 Killgore Trout

Yes, everybody’s waiting for the Palestinian side to make the inevitable decision to stop using terrorism. The Egyptians and Israelis would have no problem opening the southern border crossings if the Palestinians stopped with the terrorism.

You got that on cabinet letterhead?

116 lawhawk  Jul 25, 2014 12:31:36pm

re: #105 Romantic Heretic

We went over this yesterday. Hamas will kill people it views as collaborators. If you tell the authorities like UNRWA, let alone the IDF about missile caches, you’ll end up dead. Your family might be killed. Hamas rules through fear, intimidation, and extrajudicial use of force. It will throw people off rooftops to demonstrate their resolve in going after collaborators.

This is the world Hamas has created inside Gaza.

117 CuriousLurker  Jul 25, 2014 12:32:07pm

re: #107 Killgore Trout

Yes, everybody’s waiting for the Palestinian side to make the inevitable decision to stop using terrorism. The Egyptians and Israelis would have no problem opening the southern border crossings if the Palestinians stopped with the terrorism.

Your generalization sucks. It makes all Palestinians terrorists.

118 HappyWarrior  Jul 25, 2014 12:32:23pm

re: #112 Kragar

Don’t believe in contraception? Don’t use it.

Don’t believe in abortion? Don’t have one.

Don’t believe in Same Sex Marriage? Don’t marry someone the same sex as you.

Now tell us more about how you want the government to stop regulating individuals.

Seriously. It just amuses me the disconnect they have. They’re not for small government at all. Anyone who believes that crap is delusional.

119 GeneJockey  Jul 25, 2014 12:32:50pm

re: #89 Pie-onist Overlord

WTFITS

[Embedded content]

That’s the dumbest damn thing I’ve ever heard. Clearly she has no concept of how a sieving function works.

120 Romantic Heretic  Jul 25, 2014 12:33:31pm

re: #89 Pie-onist Overlord

WTFITS

[Embedded content]

Ms. Armstrong? You are ignorant and insane.

121 Killgore Trout  Jul 25, 2014 12:33:49pm

Israeli soldier killed by shell fired near Gaza school

“Militants fired mortars and anti-tank missiles from a structure near an UNRWA school in the central Gaza Strip,” killing one Israeli soldier and wounding several others, the army said in a statement.

The dead soldier was named as Staff Sergeant Guy Levy, 21, from Kfar Vradim, who served in the armored corps.

During the day, 14 soldiers were slightly injured, the army said.

The death comes a day after another attack on a UN school in Beit Hanun, in the northern Gaza Strip.

The school was being used as a shelter for Palestinian civilians fleeing the Israeli bombardment, and left 15 dead after an Israeli shell crashed into the middle of the courtyard.

122 Lidane  Jul 25, 2014 12:34:26pm

re: #117 CuriousLurker

Your generalization sucks. It makes all Palestinians terrorists.

EVERYONE KNOWS THAT HAMAS = PALESTINIANS = GAZANS.

Why do you hate Israel?

/////////////////////////////////////////////// x infinity

123 Kragar  Jul 25, 2014 12:34:28pm

re: #118 HappyWarrior

Seriously. It just amuses me the disconnect they have. They’re not for small government at all. Anyone who believes that crap is delusional.

“STATES RIGHTS! This is why we need a Constitutional Amendment to make our beliefs the law of the land!”

Wait, what?

124 makeitstop  Jul 25, 2014 12:34:32pm

re: #117 CuriousLurker

Your generalization sucks. It makes all Palestinians terrorists.

‘Let me tell you one more thing I know about the Palestinians…’

/

125 RealityBasedSteve  Jul 25, 2014 12:34:32pm

re: #119 GeneJockey

That’s the dumbest damn thing I’ve ever heard. Clearly she has no concept of how a sieving function works.

Airbags are a back-up for effective brakes in a car in case of an accident. If we get rid of brakes, we won’t need airbags.

RBS

126 GeneJockey  Jul 25, 2014 12:34:47pm

re: #100 makeitstop

Hasn’t that particular cow left the barn already?

Aren’t these the same guys who told us in 2002 that Bush didn’t NEED authorization to invade Iraq, that he only went to Congress as a courtesy?

127 makeitstop  Jul 25, 2014 12:35:46pm

re: #119 GeneJockey

That’s the dumbest damn thing I’ve ever heard. Clearly she has no concept of how a sieving function works.

Exactly. If they did away with contraception, wouldn’t women just go straight to the backup?

Crazy people say stupid things. Worse yet, they actually believe them.

128 HappyWarrior  Jul 25, 2014 12:35:55pm

re: #123 Kragar

“STATES RIGHTS! This is why we need a Constitutional Amendment to make our beliefs the law of the land!”

Wait, what?

Political schizophrenia, dear Watson heh.

129 TedStriker  Jul 25, 2014 12:35:59pm

re: #117 CuriousLurker

Your generalization sucks. It makes all Palestinians terrorists.

It’s probably because KT probably does think that all Palestinians are either terrorists, support personnel for the terrorists, or terrorist enablers.

It must be so nice to see the world in such stark, black-and-white terms

130 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Jul 25, 2014 12:36:05pm

re: #70 HappyWarrior

It’s a miracle that Obama hasn’t been assassinated honestly.

I shit you not this was a conversation I overheard my father (used to be sane now complete wingnut racist) and my uncle (always been a wingnut racist) having.

UNCLE: “Fucking Obama, someone should just shoot him”

FATHER: “No, can’t do that then he’d be made into a martyr.”

I wanted to smack both of them but chose to ignore it.

131 Stanley Sea  Jul 25, 2014 12:36:59pm

re: #106 Lidane

WTFITS:

ESPN Panelist: Women Should Try Not To ‘Provoke’ Domestic Violence (VIDEO)

Lenient? He got suspended for two games for hitting his fiancee. Smoking weed gets a longer suspension than that in the NFL.

He’s rightly getting a rash of shit on the Twitter.

132 HappyWarrior  Jul 25, 2014 12:37:11pm

re: #126 GeneJockey

Aren’t these the same guys who told us in 2002 that Bush didn’t NEED authorization to invade Iraq, that he only went to Congress as a courtesy?

Yes but Bush wasn’t a secret Muslim imposing Shariah law. And in fairness, a lot of the individual Congresscritters were different. Now that said, I can say with certainty that they wouldn’t have pulled this if Romney or McCain were president.

133 lawhawk  Jul 25, 2014 12:37:16pm
134 HappyWarrior  Jul 25, 2014 12:37:30pm

re: #131 Stanley Sea

He’s rightly getting a rash of shit on the Twitter.

As he should. Two games is ridiculously low.

135 Kragar  Jul 25, 2014 12:38:23pm
136 HappyWarrior  Jul 25, 2014 12:38:48pm

re: #130 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

I shit you not this was a conversation I overheard my father (used to be sane now complete wingnut racist) and my uncle (always been a wingnut racist) having.

UNCLE: “Fucking Obama, someone should just shoot him”

FATHER: “No, can’t do that then he’d be made into a martyr.”

I wanted to smack both of them but chose to ignore it.

It’s talk like that makes me cynical about our country’s future. As you said your father was sane. Obama’s brought out the worst in a lot of people and of course the wingnuts think that’s all his fault and don’t do any internal examinations.

137 Romantic Heretic  Jul 25, 2014 12:38:51pm

re: #130 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

I shit you not this was a conversation I overheard my father (used to be sane now complete wingnut racist) and my uncle (always been a wingnut racist) having.

UNCLE: “Fucking Obama, someone should just shoot him”

FATHER: “No, can’t do that then he’d be made into a martyr.”

I wanted to smack both of them but chose to ignore it.

I was at my sister’s yesterday, and my brother-in-law went into a long rant about the Israelis, what they’re doing in Gaza and how the solution is to kill every last one of them on each side, then salt the earth.

I know just how you feel.

138 Stanley Sea  Jul 25, 2014 12:38:53pm

re: #129 TedStriker

It’s probably because KT probably does think that all Palestinians are either terrorists, support personnel for the terrorists, or terrorist enablers.

It must be so nice to see the world in such stark, black-and-white terms

It’s more blatant stupidity.

139 makeitstop  Jul 25, 2014 12:39:30pm

re: #131 Stanley Sea

He’s rightly getting a rash of shit on the Twitter.

Smith is pretty much a professional troll at this point.

He does know how to push people’s buttons, I’ll give him that. But sometimes it leads him to say dumb shit.

140 Killgore Trout  Jul 25, 2014 12:40:11pm

re: #117 CuriousLurker

Your generalization sucks. It makes all Palestinians terrorists.

Somehow I knew you would object. Here’s what I said…

The Egyptians and Israelis would have no problem opening the southern border crossings if the Palestinians stopped with the terrorism.

Did you assume I meant all Egyptians. No. Did you think I meant all Israelis? Of course not, that would be silly. Yet you insert the all in front of “Palestinians” and pretend to be confused and outraged. We both know what I meant. All the anger, accusations and twisting statements is just an attempt to shut down conversation and exchange of ideas.
I know you can’t believe it but you and I are not far apart on many issues including Israel-Palestine, FGM, terrorism, etc. If you stopped being angry you might eventually learn that.

141 Kragar  Jul 25, 2014 12:40:23pm
142 HappyWarrior  Jul 25, 2014 12:41:11pm

re: #137 Romantic Heretic

I was at my sister’s yesterday, and my brother-in-law went into a long rant about the Israelis, what they’re doing in Gaza and how the solution is to kill every last one of them on each side, then salt the earth.

I know just how you feel.

My cousin who isn’t really a wingnut but is a bizarro leftist( type who sounds like a wingnut when talking about Islam and really humanity as a whole. I can’t stand the wingnuts as you all know and will agree but my cousin is the kind of guy who actually talks about wanting harm on them. There’s so many damn hateful people out there and it’s really frustrating when they’re in our own families.

143 CuriousLurker  Jul 25, 2014 12:41:13pm

re: #114 Killgore Trout

Not much can be done t stop them but maybe not vote for them in the next election.

re: #117 CuriousLurker

Your generalization sucks. It makes all Palestinians terrorists.

I guess according to your logic we can assume that 100% of Palestinians were of voting age at election time and not only did 100% of them turn out to vote, 100% of them voted for Hamas, ergo they’re all guilty of supporting terrorism.

144 RealityBasedSteve  Jul 25, 2014 12:41:58pm

re: #141 Kragar

[Embedded content]

In all honesty, he made no commitment real or implied that there would be support. Just to let him know if you needed it. Stop being so dependent, you leech. /grins

RBS

145 Lidane  Jul 25, 2014 12:42:00pm

Professional crybaby says what?

The Doctor Is In: Dinesh D’Souza Psychoanalyzes The Left

“So here’s the envious guy, seething with envy, seething with resentment and who should come to him at this point but Obama,” he explained. “And Obama, himself suffused with envy, will say to this guy ‘Listen, let me tell you something, you’re not envious, you are righteously indignant, you know why? Because look at those guys in that restaurant, they’ve been stealing from you. Society creates wealth and then greedy entrepreneurs come in and grab it. So here’s what you do: you vote for me, I will take the cops and go get their stuff and then I will give some of it to you.’”

“You have here a dirty bargain by people who are appealing to the lowest impulses in human nature,” D’Souza said, “and it’s camouflaged under the banner of social justice. It’s ultimately the biggest scam of them all”

146 Lidane  Jul 25, 2014 12:44:01pm

re: #142 HappyWarrior

I have cousins in Mexico that are far, far left. One of them has taken to sharing a bunch of FB memes babbling about Israeli genocide in Gaza. I’ve hidden every single source he gets those damned things from so I don’t have to see that shit.

He’s family and I love him, but he’s being stupid. It’s a complicated situation that can’t be summed up in a single panel meme.

147 Kragar  Jul 25, 2014 12:44:06pm

The two officials, Nisha Biswal and Arun Kumar, are Americans who hold senior positions at the State Department and Commerce Department, respectively. Although both Biswal and Kumar were introduced as U.S. officials by the chairman of the Asia and Pacific subcommittee, Clawson repeatedly asked them questions about “your country” and “your government,” in reference to the state of India.

“I’m familiar with your country; I love your country,” the Florida Republican said. “Anything I can do to make the relationship with India better, I’m willing and enthusiastic about doing so.”

Apparently confused by their Indian surnames and skin color, Clawson also asked if “their” government could loosen restrictions on U.S. capital investments in India.

148 HappyWarrior  Jul 25, 2014 12:44:20pm

re: #145 Lidane

Professional crybaby says what?

The Doctor Is In: Dinesh D’Souza Psychoanalyzes The Left

Me thinks Dinesh should be counting his blessings that his next residence isn’t a prison rather than playing amateur shrink. Like John McCain’s attempts to psychoanalyze Obama by calling him self-pitying, he’s not very good at it but then again Dinesh doesn’t seem to be good at anything except being a right wing tool. We’re not jealous of the ultra wealthy you tool, we just don’t want a society where the chances for self-advancement aren’t there because your wealthy friends would rather have another tax-cut than invest in the citizenry.

149 Decatur Deb  Jul 25, 2014 12:45:23pm

re: #147 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Classical.

150 HappyWarrior  Jul 25, 2014 12:45:53pm

re: #146 Lidane

I have cousins in Mexico that are far, far left. One of them has taken to sharing a bunch of FB memes babbling about Israeli genocide in Gaza. I’ve hidden every single source he gets those damned things from so I don’t have to see that shit.

He’s family and I love him, but he’s being stupid. It’s a complicated situation that can’t be summed up in a single panel meme.

Sounds like my cousin. He’s been through a lot (health wise and personal wise) that I don’t go too hard on him but it’s frustrating as hell to deal with. At least his nieces can’t read his facebook feed anymore. I was real glad when his sister told me that last summer. What’s frustrating is like your cousin, I know he’s capable of being a kind and caring person.

151 Decatur Deb  Jul 25, 2014 12:46:11pm

re: #148 HappyWarrior

Me thinks Dinesh should be counting his blessings that his next residence isn’t a prison rather than playing amateur shrink. Like John McCain’s attempts to psychoanalyze Obama by calling him self-pitying, he’s not very good at it but then again Dinesh doesn’t seem to be good at anything except being a right wing tool. We’re not jealous of the ultra wealthy you tool, we just don’t want a society where the chances for self-advancement aren’t there because your wealthy friends would rather have another tax-cut than invest in the citizenry.

Did D’Souza avoid time?

152 HappyWarrior  Jul 25, 2014 12:48:35pm

re: #151 Decatur Deb

Did D’Souza avoid time?

I thought he did. I think now that I look at his wiki page I am mistaken but he is avoiding serious time that he would not be avoiding if Obama were the tyrant he likes to paint for viewers of his documentaries and readers of his awful books.

153 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Jul 25, 2014 12:50:26pm

re: #140 Killgore Trout

First of all, what you’re saying simply isn’t true. Netenhayhu’s latest statements have been a rejection of the two state solution: He’s affirmed that Israel needs to retain military and security control of the West Bank, and has called the pullout from Gaza a mistake. During periods of time when the amount of attacks from Gaza was minimal and Hamas prosecuted those responsible for the attacks, like during the 2008 ceasefire, the border crossings were not just opened. It would, actually, be a deeply foolish thing for Israel to simply open the borders if Hamas stopped engaging in terrorism for a period of time, so it’s a pollyanish fantasy anyway.

Second of all, accusing CL of being disingenuous and ‘pretending’ to get upset, when that is exactly what you attempt to achieve, is ridiculous and what makes you held in such contempt. You are a contrarian, a self-proclaimed douchebag who enjoys riling up other people, and you acknowledge this on the days when you’re feeling honest. Your tendency towards sloppy group blame, which goes hand in hand with your basic ignorance about Islam and the Middle East, is one of your worst qualities.

Franky, it doesn’t look like you’ve improved one bit since you said this:

littlegreenfootballs.com

Notice he focuses on how much Muslims like our technology and our TV shows and NOT on how they feel about our culture and politics. They’ve hated us (and been trying to kill us) long before 9-11, Iraq and even the creation of Israel. Zogby is a disengenious turd.

And yeah, I know, you’re going to be all ‘stalker’ and ‘that was eight years ago’ now. I found that quote randomly while looking through old pages, but goddamn, Killgore, it’s beyond what I expected even of you.

Are you going to defend that quote by saying you didn’t say “all Muslims”?

154 HappyWarrior  Jul 25, 2014 12:50:38pm

The most pathetic attack D’Souza ever threw against Obama was when he accused him of being “anti-colonial.” Dude you’re Indian-American and a citizen of a country that was formed from fighting the British empire. I think it was just Dinesh being Dinesh though. Someone who is so desperate to prove his Obama hating creds so wingnuts won’t throw racial slurs at him.

155 Killgore Trout  Jul 25, 2014 12:50:46pm

re: #143 CuriousLurker

I guess according to your logic we can assume that 100% of Palestinians were of voting age at election time and not only did 100% of them turn out to vote, 100% of them voted for Hamas, ergo they’re all guilty of supporting terrorism.

You keep selectively inserting superlatives into my statements to make wild imaginary assumptions. You might be surprised to learn that doesn’t change what I actually think.

156 Kragar  Jul 25, 2014 12:50:55pm
157 CuriousLurker  Jul 25, 2014 12:51:05pm

re: #140 Killgore Trout

Somehow I knew you would object. Here’s what I said…

Did you assume I meant all Egyptians. No. Did you think I meant all Israelis? Of course not, that would be silly. Yet you insert the all in front of “Palestinians” and pretend to be confused and outraged. We both know what I meant. All the anger, accusations and twisting statements is just an attempt to shut down conversation and exchange of ideas.
I know you can’t believe it but you and I are not far apart on many issues including Israel-Palestine, FGM, terrorism, etc. If you stopped being angry you might eventually learn that.

Lame. I’m not angry, I’m annoyed & disgusted.

I know it annoys you that I won’t back off, so you try to color me as “pretending” to be confused & outraged. Guess what? Too bad, I’m not gonna back off.

If I was talking about Kahanists, but instead of actually saying “Kahanists” I said “Jews” would that be antisemitism, or would everyone understand I was only talking about Kahanists?

Oh, and you know what? If you tried being intellectually honest, maybe you’d stop imagining that everyone else is also “pretending”.

158 Timothy Watson  Jul 25, 2014 12:51:35pm

re: #130 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

My dad e-mailed me some Moonie Times bullshit about spending $34 million trying to get Afghan farmers to grow soybeans.

Because, you know, it’s cheaper in the long run for the United States to just have them grow opium.

I’m sure the Moonie Times has reported extensively on the F-35 which will cost ~29,897 times as much.

//////

159 HappyWarrior  Jul 25, 2014 12:52:37pm

re: #156 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Now imagine the reaction say ten years ago if a Democratic rep had a bill to make Fahrenheit 9-11 mandatory watching? And this isn’t indoctrination at all. Nope, not in the slightest.

160 TedStriker  Jul 25, 2014 12:53:14pm

re: #157 CuriousLurker

Lame. I’m not angry, I’m annoyed & disgusted.

I know it annoys you that I wont back off so you try to color me as “pretending” to be confused & outraged. Guess what? Too bad, I’m not gonna back off.

If I was talking about Kahanists, but instead of actually saying “Kahanists” I said “Jews” would that be antisemitism, or would everyone understand I was only talking about Kahanists?

Oh, and you know what? If you tried being intellectually honest, maybe you’d stop imagining that everyone else is also “pretending”.

I’m waiting for him to call you “hysterical”, you poor addled-minded female.

///

161 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Jul 25, 2014 12:53:15pm

re: #156 Kragar

I support this as long as Frank Coniff gets to add riffs to it.

162 CuriousLurker  Jul 25, 2014 12:53:35pm

re: #155 Killgore Trout

You keep selectively inserting superlatives into my statements to make wild imaginary assumptions. You might be surprised to learn that doesn’t change what I actually think.

Yep, that’s me, always making stuff up and assuming the worst based on people’s actual words. Keep trying, I doubt you’ll convince anyone besides yourself.

163 Kragar  Jul 25, 2014 12:56:30pm

re: #161 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

I support this as long as Frank Coniff gets to add riffs to it.

Oh yes.

164 Bulworth  Jul 25, 2014 12:58:25pm

re:
#156

None dare call it indoctrinization.

165 Eventual Carrion  Jul 25, 2014 1:02:25pm

re: #30 Pie-onist Overlord

HURR HURR!!! TEH DEMOCRATS CAUSED BUSH’S WARS & TAX CUTS!!!!!

[Embedded content]

Ahh, I can state it again (as I did on the dead thread below). Didn’t they vote to give Bush discretion on what to do (big mistake)? I don’t think there was ever a war vote.

166 CuriousLurker  Jul 25, 2014 1:10:05pm

re: #160 TedStriker

I’m waiting for him to call you “hysterical”.

///

LOL, I’m pretty sure he doesn’t use it becuase he knows it’ll get him in trouble with the female members.

It’s weird how disagreement or calling him out on anything he’s said get’s painted as me being some sort of enraged, delusional bully who twists his words and tries to shut down conversation. Oh, and if he tells me to look at things he’s said in the past and I actually do, then I’m a stalker.*

He goes to a lot of trouble to avoid having to justify what he says with precise language or factual examples. It’s all head games.

*Maybe I should bake him some martyr cookies.

167 ObserverArt  Jul 25, 2014 1:13:22pm

re: #98 Kragar

[Anyone serious about wanting fewer abortions would support expanded access to contraception.

You’re a zealot @PattiArmstrong]

Wasting your time with that one Kragar. She’s as dogmatic Catholic as they come. If you haven’t already, check her page and bio. Anyone that puts up the picture of the main altar of a church (her church?) as a background is devout.

168 Joanne  Jul 25, 2014 1:13:22pm

re: #51 GeneJockey

He’s fucking certifiable.

I am starting to believe that they all are. Every single one. I think there is no sanity in the GOP any longer.

169 ObserverArt  Jul 25, 2014 1:15:46pm

re: #106 Lidane

WTFITS:

ESPN Panelist: Women Should Try Not To ‘Provoke’ Domestic Violence (VIDEO)

Lenient? He got suspended for two games for hitting his fiancee. Smoking weed gets a longer suspension than that in the NFL.

Stephen A. Smith…all anyone needs to know. Dude is a nut and he loves to stir shit up as much as he loves himself.

170 b_sharp  Jul 25, 2014 1:21:21pm

re: #167 ObserverArt

Wasting your time with that one Kragar. She’s as dogmatic Catholic as they come. If you haven’t already, check her page and bio. Anyone that puts up the picture of the main altar of a church (her church?) as a background is devout.

Or Carrie’s mother Margaret.

171 Joanne  Jul 25, 2014 1:28:31pm

re: #89 Pie-onist Overlord

WTFITS

[Abortion is backup for contraception. Until we get rid of contraception, we won’t get rid of abortion. #life #Prolife #tcot #trcot]

Well, that’s some impeccable logic right there. //

172 b_sharp  Jul 25, 2014 1:32:45pm

re: #171 Joanne

Well, that’s some impeccable logic right there. //

It has to be satire doesn’t it?

173 Joanne  Jul 25, 2014 1:35:57pm

re: #172 b_sharp

It has to be satire doesn’t it?

One would hope. Alas….

174 Rightwingconspirator  Jul 25, 2014 1:40:15pm

re: #68 CuriousLurker
Back from work…

Sounds simple except for one thing: Who in Gaza can make them stop?

Hamas leadership. Now that’s not going to happen, I’m just being clear I don’t expect the people to be able to overthrow the military part of Hamas.
no more than a neighborhood could get rid of the mafia back in the day.

175 Killgore Trout  Jul 25, 2014 1:41:03pm

re: #166 CuriousLurker

He goes to a lot of trouble to avoid having to justify what he says with precise language or factual examples. It’s all head games.

Yes, I will admit to intentionally using the words “Israeli”, “Egyptian” and “Palestinian” all in the same sentence knowing that you would understand all of the sentence with the exception of inserting “all” in front of Palestinian. I think it’s a common internet technique to create a minefield of language that prevents people from reasonable discussion, but of course only you know why you do it.

176 palomino  Jul 25, 2014 1:45:35pm

re: #155 Killgore Trout

You keep selectively inserting superlatives into my statements to make wild imaginary assumptions. You might be surprised to learn that doesn’t change what I actually think.

You have no self-awareness.

Most people here stopped giving a shit what you think years ago. It’s painfully obvious. You’re damaged goods, washed up, a perverse and irrelevant little sadist.

177 CuriousLurker  Jul 25, 2014 2:01:43pm

re: #175 Killgore Trout

Yes, I will admit to intentionally using the words “Israeli”, “Egyptian” and “Palestinian” all in the same sentence knowing that you would understand all of the sentence with the exception of inserting “all” in front of Palestinian. I think it’s a common internet technique to create a minefield of language that prevents people from reasonable discussion, but of course only you know why you do it.

Yes, but you didn’t accuse Israelis or Egyptians of something as horrible as terrorism, did you? You reserved that for Palestinians. Try again.

If you’re under the impression that I care about your opinion of me, you’re sadly mistaken. If you’re simply trying to convince others that I’m trying to prevent reasonable discussion, then by all means keep digging.

Hey, I have an idea! Why don’t you create a poll and see how many people agree with you? I won’t have any way of knowing who voted for what, so I won’t be able to bully anyone who might vote against me. If a majority feels the way you do, then I’ll back off.

178 BeachDem  Jul 25, 2014 2:22:50pm

re: #148 HappyWarrior

So, Obama is self-pitying and envious. Do these two tools get that the man is the freaking PRESIDENT of the freaking US? Next, they’ll be telling us that Obama is envious of McCain and D’Souza because they are both so incredibly awesome.

179 electrotek  Jul 25, 2014 9:23:39pm

So the Israeli Embassy in Ireland has succumbed to using the same hateful rhetoric employed by Robert Spencer and Pamela Geller now.

Disgraceful. How does using this language help Israel at all?

180 _RememberTonyC  Jul 26, 2014 4:22:39am

Hamas is a terrorist organization, which many (especially on the left) seem to forget. Since they rule Gaza by terror, I agree with those who say the local residents of Gaza, many of whom are innocents are more or less powerless to do anything about it. Tyrannical rulers have always operated that way. Thus, the only way to get rid of them is to DEFEAT them militarily. Israel is working on it, but they can’t do it alone. If Mahmoud Abbas were really a man of peace, he would recognize the golden opportunity Israel is giving him and sincerely work WITH Israel so that the peaceful elements of Palestinian society become more dominant. One of the truly sad aspects of this conflict is that Israel and the Palestinians could be good friends if only the enemies of Israel would give up the dream of eliminating Israel. When Israel soon begins to develop and sell its natural gas reserves, there will be money available to share with a peaceful Palestinian state. But as long as Israel’s enemies continue to stoke this endless conflict, everyone loses.

181 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Jul 26, 2014 6:11:37am

re: #180 _RememberTonyC

Hamas is a terrorist organization, which many (especially on the left) seem to forget. Since they rule Gaza by terror, I agree with those who say the local residents of Gaza, many of whom are innocents are more or less powerless to do anything about it. Tyrannical rulers have always operated that way. Thus, the only way to get rid of them is to DEFEAT them militarily.

That doesn’t follow. The only way to defeat tyranny is not through military force.

Israel is working on it, but they can’t do it alone.

If Israel militarily defeated Hamas, why do you think that another extremist faction wouldn’t take its place?

One of the truly sad aspects of this conflict is that Israel and the Palestinians could be good friends if only the enemies of Israel would give up the dream of eliminating Israel.

Have you followed the recent statements by Bibi and other members of Likud that amount to a rejection of the two-state solution?

182 _RememberTonyC  Jul 26, 2014 7:10:44am

Israeli governments change and there have been more “dovish” Israeli leaders than Bibi. In the future there will probably be more. But if the doves had their offers rebuffed with no realistic concessions by the ONES WHO ARE ASKING FOR LAND, the reaction is understandable by the voters in Israel. The tragedy of this whole deal is that ” would be ” peacemakers on the Palestinian/Arab/Muslim side have learned the lesson of Anwar Sadat. Sadat dared to make peace and actually MEANT it, and he paid with his life. Abbas may be a moderate in some ways, bute if he really was serious about making peace, it would mean risking his life. And that is because forces we’ll beyond Ramallah or Gaza are really calling the shots. And the vast majority of those forces don’t WANT the Palestinians to make REAL peace. That’s why they continue to support hamas …


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