Russia Offers 4 Million Rubles to Crack the Tor Network

Written by Kevin Rothrock @kevinrothrock * Global Voices
LGF • Views: 27,310

News from Russia — that bastion of human rights, privacy, internet freedom, and home of Edward Snowden…

The Russian government is offering almost 4 million rubles (about USD $100,000) to anyone who can devise a reliable way to decrypt data sent over the Tor anonymity network. A mounting campaign by the Kremlin against the open Internet, not to mention revelations in the United States about government spying, have made Tor increasingly attractive to Russian Internet users seeking to circumvent state censorship.

Developed as a project of the U.S. Naval Research Laboratory more than a decade ago, Tor anonymizes Internet traffic by sending it through a unique configuration of nodes known as an onion routing system. Now in the hands of a nonprofit group, the project continues to receive federal funding but boasts approximately 4 million users worldwide, among them many tech-savvy digital activists in countries where technical censorship and surveillance are prevalent. Even the U.S. State Department supports programs that train foreign political activists to use Tor to protect themselves from the watchful eyes of authoritarian governments.

Tor has encountered problems in Russia before. Indeed, the country’s principal security agency, the FSB, lobbied the Duma last year to ban Tor. Deputies expressed support for the initiative, but it never got out of committee.

More: Russia Offers 4 Million Rubles to Crack the Tor Network * Global Voices

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396 comments
1 Charles Johnson  Jul 25, 2014 6:01:47pm

Promoted, because I can hardly believe this one.

The country that shelters Edward Snowden, offering a reward to crack Tor. Freaking unreal.

2 Charles Johnson  Jul 25, 2014 6:04:13pm

4 million rubles converts to about $114,000.

3 Khal Wimpo  Jul 25, 2014 6:06:57pm

Usually, they just block access to Tor by instituting traffic filters on the routers. I guess VPN technology has evolved to the point where this is no longer effective (although last year in Ukraine, during the Maidan uprising, you needed to Alpha Nerds just to access Twitter/Facebook/YouTube and the Russian-language VKontakte and Odoklassniki).

And yeah, it’ll be interesting to see Greenwald try to spin this one as being some ploy of the U.S. government to crush the free expression of opinion.

4 b.d.  Jul 25, 2014 6:07:23pm

Snowie needs a new Lada, he had to do it.

//

5 Teukka  Jul 25, 2014 6:07:28pm

re: #1 Charles Johnson

Promoted, because I can hardly believe this one.

The country that shelters Edward Snowden, offering a reward to crack Tor. Freaking unreal.

The feeling in my gut that Snowden was turned before he worked for the NSA is getting stronger…

6 StephenMeansMe  Jul 25, 2014 6:10:14pm

Ooooh this will be good. How will Greenwald & Co. spin this one to the crypto-libertarians and outright hackers—erm, “activists”—who rely on Tor? I can’t wait.

7 Amory Blaine  Jul 25, 2014 6:12:29pm

Holy shit Putin should work on inflation instead.

8 TedStriker  Jul 25, 2014 6:13:43pm

re: #2 Charles Johnson

4 million rubles converts to about $114,000.

And I thought the dollar’s been trading weak to the Euro for the longest time; 4,000,000 rubles is roughly 35:1 vs. the USD.

Talk about an economic disaster…it’s not Zimbabwe bad, but it’s still pretty awful.

9 StephenMeansMe  Jul 25, 2014 6:14:17pm

re: #2 Charles Johnson

4 million rubles converts to about $114,000.

In other words, roughly one-third of a FirstLook nepotism freedom award? Lame.

10 b.d.  Jul 25, 2014 6:15:00pm

It doesn’t seem like a lot of money for such a feat?

11 Randall Gross  Jul 25, 2014 6:15:29pm

OT: wanted to point this out to musicians here - this is a pretty good jazz / funk album that’s tight but background enough for you to easily noodle along with if you feel so inclined:

itunes.apple.com

check out “Three” it’s infectious.

12 b.d.  Jul 25, 2014 6:16:00pm

re: #9 StephenMeansMe

In other words, roughly one-third of a FirstLook nepotism freedom award? Lame.

In a Pierre vs. Putin bidding war, Pierre would lose.

13 Randall Gross  Jul 25, 2014 6:18:11pm

Maybe Snowden could get the reward by haxzoring TOR with his ‘le3t skilz.

14 Charles Johnson  Jul 25, 2014 6:18:23pm

If you’re a Russian hacker living in mom’s basement and subsisting on income from spam, trust me - $114,000 looks like a major score.

15 b.d.  Jul 25, 2014 6:22:08pm

re: #14 Charles Johnson

If you’re a Russian hacker living in mom’s basement and subsisting on income from spam, trust me - $114,000 looks like a major score.

But if that crowd is busy trying to crack Tor then who the hell be will out there stealing my credit card information?

//

16 Charles Johnson  Jul 25, 2014 6:22:12pm
17 RealityBasedSteve  Jul 25, 2014 6:25:58pm

re: #15 b.d.

But if that crowd is busy trying to crack Tor then who the hell be will out there stealing my credit card information?

//

That’s being outsourced to the Nigerians. The Nigerians in turn are licensing their money transfer scheme to the Krasnovians. The Krasnovians are letting the Ebonians run the penny stock “Pump and Dump” ops.

RBS

18 b.d.  Jul 25, 2014 6:26:20pm

re: #6 StephenMeansMe

Ooooh this will be good. How will Greenwald & Co. spin this one to the crypto-libertarians and outright hackers—erm, “activists”—who rely on Tor? I can’t wait.

Expect a hastily put together FirstLook exposé, with powerpoint slides, on how the NSA is already monitoring everything sent via Tor.

19 Decatur Deb  Jul 25, 2014 6:28:47pm

re: #15 b.d.

But if that crowd is busy trying to crack Tor then who the hell be will out there stealing my credit card information?

//

Said it before—False Russian Flag. This means they have already broken Tor and are just trying to keep us in the dark so we will continue posting lolcats.

They’re sneaky that way.

20 TedStriker  Jul 25, 2014 6:28:58pm

re: #14 Charles Johnson

If you’re a Russian hacker living in mom’s basement and subsisting on income from spam, trust me - $114,000 looks like a major score.

Yeah, I know a little (and I’m sure that you know a lot more than me, Charles) about those Russian hackers; ever since I did a long-needed rebuild of my troop’s website with Joomla 3.3 a couple of weeks ago (up from Joomla 1.6) and installed the Brute Force Stop plugin (among other security measures), the failed login logs are stuffed mostly with Russian IP addresses.

They keep trying to log in as admin in the backend at least once an hour, every hour, and keep rotating IP addresses and IP blocks. Luckily, with a very strong password and two-factor authentication using Google Authenticator, I don’t worry so much.

21 Teukka  Jul 25, 2014 6:31:30pm

re: #20 TedStriker

Yeah, I know a little (and I’m sure that you know a lot more than me, Charles) about those Russian hackers; ever since I did a long-needed rebuild of my troop’s website with Joomla 3.3 a couple of weeks ago (up from Joomla 1.6) and installed the Brute Force Stop plugin (among other security measures), the failed login logs are stuffed mostly with Russian IPs.

They keep trying to log in as admin in the backend at least once an hour, every hour, and keep rotating IPs and IP blocks. Luckily, with a very strong password and two-factor authentication using Google Authenticator, I don’t worry so much.

Yep. My personal server has had 551 attempted uses of various admin backends this month alone. And I’m in Sweden.

22 Amory Blaine  Jul 25, 2014 6:31:53pm

Using child porn as a reason is useful propaganda, for that whiff of moral cover it needs.

///why do you hate the children??!!

23 William Barnett-Lewis  Jul 25, 2014 6:44:30pm

Interesting. I know the Chinese are alleged to be working very hard at cracking TOR as well because it can sidestep the the Great Firewall. Well, it’s nice to see the US Navy’s work is actually causing real tyrants grief.

Wonder where Freenet fits into this as well? Stronger? Weaker?

24 b_sharp  Jul 25, 2014 6:44:48pm

Where has Gus been lately?

25 Amory Blaine  Jul 25, 2014 6:46:21pm

Here’s more info.

The bounty offer apparently first appeared in a July 11 notice on the Russian government’s online procurement portal which seeks proposals for researchers to “study the possibility of obtaining technical information about users and users equipment on the Tor anonymous network,” as translated by Ars Technica.
The catch? Only Russian citizens and companies are eligible to try for the reward. Oh, and it costs a whopping 195,000 rubles, or about $5,555, just to enter the competition, the tech site. The Russians apparently want to rip the vault doors off Tor quickly—entrants must have their proposals in by Aug. 13 and a winner will be selected by Aug. 20, Ars Technica said.

26 Charles Johnson  Jul 25, 2014 6:47:33pm

re: #24 b_sharp

Where has Gus been lately?

He’s been visiting Cranky Land.

27 Charles Johnson  Jul 25, 2014 6:54:43pm

Cranky Land is the magical kingdom where everything sucks and everybody’s wrong. I’ve vacationed there myself. They have some good package deals.

28 Decatur Deb  Jul 25, 2014 6:55:11pm

re: #27 Charles Johnson

Cranky Land is the magical kingdom where everything sucks and everybody’s wrong. I’ve vacationed there myself. They have some good package deals.

Walter is its king.

29 CuriousLurker  Jul 25, 2014 6:56:35pm

re: #27 Charles Johnson

Cranky Land is the magical kingdom where everything sucks and everybody’s wrong. I’ve vacationed there myself. They have some good package deals.

Me too.

30 Charles Johnson  Jul 25, 2014 6:57:50pm
31 Mattand  Jul 25, 2014 6:59:36pm

I’m too lazy to look it up right now, but I believe Snowden was making noises a few days ago about working on privacy software or some such. Probably saw it on Ars.

This revelation about Russian and Tor, however, is fucking priceless. I’m sure GG will be relentlessly dogging to Putin via Snowden to put a stop to this.

Yeah, I have had a few beers tonight. How’d you guess?

33 Mattand  Jul 25, 2014 7:02:04pm

re: #27 Charles Johnson

Cranky Land is the magical kingdom where everything sucks and everybody’s wrong. I’ve vacationed there myself. They have some good package deals.

I love the “It’s a Shit World After All” ride. Except when it gets on my nerves.

And don’t even get me started about the Get Off My Lawn, You Damn Kids theater.

34 HappyWarrior  Jul 25, 2014 7:03:18pm

re: #30 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Satanist. Words of a well balanced individual. Better a “satanist” though than a Eurofascist sympathizer like Spencer is.

35 CuriousLurker  Jul 25, 2014 7:09:50pm

I’m gonna call it a night. If anyone sees Gus, please give him this for me:

G’nite, everyone.

36 Charles Johnson  Jul 25, 2014 7:18:24pm
37 Interesting Times  Jul 25, 2014 7:19:19pm

re: #36 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

And some douche who worked on Santorum’s campaign. Realtime Wingnut Wave!

38 Charles Johnson  Jul 25, 2014 7:24:39pm

I’ll be listening to great music instead of this Bill Maher crap.

39 Skip Intro  Jul 25, 2014 7:32:30pm

re: #37 Interesting Times

And some douche who worked on Santorum’s campaign. Realtime Wingnut Wave!

$18 a month so I can watch this crap?

No thanks.

40 Eventual Carrion  Jul 25, 2014 7:47:39pm

Watching Crossroads Guitar Festival 2004 on VH1 Classic. Vince Gill is on the stage right now. Joe Walsh and James Taylor had just got off.

41 Joanne  Jul 25, 2014 7:56:13pm

re: #25 Amory Blaine

Here’s more info.

Let’s see. I’m a hacker and the Russian government wants me to “register” as one, pay them and do some hacking? I’m thinking you have to be a really stupid hacker to identify yourself as one to start with. As for the “reward”, I’m thinking that money won’t be needed in Siberia.

42 wheat-dogghazi  Jul 25, 2014 7:59:09pm

re: #23 William Barnett-Lewis

Interesting. I know the Chinese are alleged to be working very hard at cracking TOR as well because it can sidestep the the Great Firewall. Well, it’s nice to see the US Navy’s work is actually causing real tyrants grief.

Wonder where Freenet fits into this as well? Stronger? Weaker?

China has mostly neutralized Tor by making it nearly impossible for the client to connect to the Tor network. Tor developers, the last I had checked, were sure the Chinese had learned how to intercept the Tor protocols on Internet carrier’s routers. Since China has such a tightly controlled Internet infrastructure, they can choke off traffic right at the borders.

I was able to use Tor successfully my first year here, but eventually I had to switch to a free VPN (Ultrasurf) that’s more reliable.

43 Kragar  Jul 25, 2014 8:03:42pm
44 William Barnett-Lewis  Jul 25, 2014 8:06:29pm

re: #42 wheat-dogghazi

Thanks for the update.

45 wheat-dogghazi  Jul 25, 2014 8:15:00pm

Hey, weren’t Snowden and Greenwald encouraging people to use Tor and some kind of encrypted email service, like they were using? If Russia manages to disable Tor, then GreenSnow can’t communicate anonymously.

46 Stanley Sea  Jul 25, 2014 8:15:53pm

So the 12 hr calm is in progress?

47 jonhendry  Jul 25, 2014 8:21:13pm

re: #14 Charles Johnson

If you’re a Russian hacker living in mom’s basement and subsisting on income from spam, trust me - $114,000 looks like a major score.

Why work hard to crack Tor when you can hack Target much more easily?

48 Stanley Sea  Jul 25, 2014 8:31:48pm

Image: File:Samuelarrival.jpg

Description
The new era in Palestine. The arrival at the 1920 Cairo Conference of Sir Herbert Samuel, H.B.M. high commissioner, etc. Col. Lawrence, Emir Abdullah, Air Marshal Sir Geoffrey Salmond and Sir Wyndham Deedes.

49 wheat-dogghazi  Jul 25, 2014 8:37:47pm

re: #45 wheat-dogghazi

Hey, weren’t Snowden and Greenwald encouraging people to use Tor and some kind of encrypted email service, like they were using? If Russia manages to disable Tor, then GreenSnow can’t communicate anonymously.

I checked. Yes, they did, and Snowden warned GG that NSA and GCHQ were both trying to crack Tor. theguardian.com

How delightful that Snowden’s Russian hosts also now want to hack the Tor network.

50 b.d.  Jul 25, 2014 8:39:34pm

Thanks for the head’s up about Bill Maher, I had to catch up on my ancient aliens anyways.

History, and all that.

//

51 jaunte  Jul 25, 2014 8:49:02pm
52 Joanne  Jul 25, 2014 8:59:25pm

Check out @Charmed86 timeline as she live tweeted the WH briefing. Hysterical.

53 Shiplord Kirel  Jul 25, 2014 9:00:20pm

re: #34 HappyWarrior

Satanist. Words of a well balanced individual. Better a “satanist” though than a Eurofascist sympathizer like Spencer is.

As Ishmael in Moby Dick said when he had to share a bed with Queequeg, “Better a sober cannibal than a drunk Christian.”

54 Charles Johnson  Jul 25, 2014 9:04:22pm
55 ObserverArt  Jul 25, 2014 9:04:27pm

I have a question. Does everyone that goes to Cranky Land need to have a pair of cranky pants?

56 Kragar  Jul 25, 2014 9:07:19pm
57 Charles Johnson  Jul 25, 2014 9:10:27pm
58 RealityBasedSteve  Jul 25, 2014 9:18:40pm

Night all… Longish weekend planned, may even hit the Casino in Metropolis IL Saturday night. (Home of Superman you know). Only problem is that it’s the only casino in the region, they really don’t try to do much more than take you and your money and separate them. Since I stayed awake in Math class, I’m not that enthralled by gaming. At least in Vegas there is always something to see / watch / gawk at in the casinos or out on the strip. Southern Illinois, not-so-much.

Oh well, catch you later gators.

RBS

59 Eventual Carrion  Jul 25, 2014 9:19:57pm

re: #55 ObserverArt

I have a question. Does everyone that goes to Cranky Land need to have a pair of cranky pants?

I wear my poopy pants

60 RealityBasedSteve  Jul 25, 2014 9:20:11pm

re: #55 ObserverArt

I have a question. Does everyone that goes to Cranky Land need to have a pair of cranky pants?

No, you can pick them up at the gift store, but you’ll save about 50% if you get them at one of the factory outlets near by.

RBS

61 wheat-dogghazi  Jul 25, 2014 9:23:16pm

re: #57 Charles Johnson

I pause a little when I see people call themselves journalists when all they do is run news aggregator/clickbait sites.

62 BeachDem  Jul 25, 2014 9:24:51pm

re: #51 jaunte

[Embedded content]

I’ve now been reading her tweets for 1/2 an hour. She is really funny. Thanks for sharing.

63 Charles Johnson  Jul 25, 2014 9:26:49pm
64 HappyWarrior  Jul 25, 2014 9:28:24pm

re: #56 Kragar

[Embedded content]

As long as he hates liberals and loves guns, he’s worthy of hero status.

65 wheat-dogghazi  Jul 25, 2014 9:30:06pm

Have to admit, though, these botched chyrons are funny. buzzfeed.com

Weather report for Venus:

H2SO4 showers, though. Stay indoors!

66 Rightwingconspirator  Jul 25, 2014 9:34:15pm

re: #65 wheat-dogghazi

Wonder what the “feels like” temp was…

67 wheat-dogghazi  Jul 25, 2014 9:35:32pm

re: #66 Rightwingconspirator

Wonder what the “feels like” temp was…

Probably about 900° — heavy cloud cover raises the humidity, y’know.

68 jaunte  Jul 25, 2014 9:37:21pm

re: #67 wheat-dogghazi

There goes the “two degree guarantee.”

69 Rightwingconspirator  Jul 25, 2014 9:40:50pm

Warm. Humid. Some of us in crankyland. Seems a nice moment for a Firth Of Fifth, at least for those who like prog rock at it’s finest.

Video

70 Joanne  Jul 25, 2014 9:57:50pm

re: #59 Eventual Carrion

I wear my poopy pants

Nuge? Is that you?

/

71 Teukka  Jul 25, 2014 10:27:16pm

Anyone here keeping track of Russian domestic media? I’ve seen a ugly tendency in a chat room, Russians coming in and basically saying things follows:

<Redacted>Teukka: well i suggest no one invades russia
<Redacted>Teukka: it's not a threat, it's a simple statement of russian defense, ie, ANY incursion on russian territory can and will be met with force up to and including tactical nuclear weapons

AFAICT, there has been no talk in the West about invading russia. But there may very well have been in Russian state media to prepare Russians for something.

Someone is trying to escalate things here.

72 wheat-dogghazi  Jul 25, 2014 10:32:39pm

re: #71 Teukka

Nationalists there are trying to frame MH17 as a “false flag” by the Ukrainians, the EU, NATO, whatever to justify aggression against Russia, I’m sure, With the Dutch and Malaysians sending police and military to secure the crash site, the Russians’ paranoia will only get worse.

The Kremlin is bending this tragedy just the way it wants.

73 Rightwingconspirator  Jul 25, 2014 10:43:51pm

So about that 4 million rubles-Who but the Russian gov could lowball it and still come off pretentious?

74 Teukka  Jul 25, 2014 10:44:14pm

re: #72 wheat-dogghazi

Nationalists there are trying to frame MH17 as a “false flag” by the Ukrainians, the EU, NATO, whatever to justify aggression against Russia, I’m sure, With the Dutch and Malaysians sending police and military to secure the crash site, the Russians’ paranoia will only get worse.

The Kremlin is bending this tragedy just the way it wants.

Creating a condition where the tiniest of sparks can touch shit off…
*smh*

75 goddamnedfrank  Jul 26, 2014 12:46:59am

Good article in Forbes on Putin’s Ukraine gambit and the Malaysian Air shootdown.

Why Putin Shot Down MH-17

Many say that it is all part of Putin’s master plan, that he has been scheming for years to create a greater Russia and that he has been skillfully moving his chess pieces around the board in order to attain that objective. Yet most Kremlin experts say otherwise. They insist that he is a talented tactician with little taste for broad strategic thinking.

Events would seem to bear this out. Since the crisis began, he has been taking on ever greater risk—not to mention serious damage to the Russian economy—with negative return. Before the crisis began, Ukraine was slowly moving towards Europe, now it is actively running away from Russia. European public opinion, even before MH-17, has turned decidedly against Putin. Russia’s most talented citizens are leaving in droves.

So it appears that Putin is not only a poor chess player, he is an exceeding bad poker player, constantly raising the stakes while facing a decreasing expected return. If he ever could return Ukraine to the fold—an exceedingly unlikely prospect—he would accomplish no more than a return to the status quo ante.

The pattern of events shows a dangerous pattern. At almost every stage, Putin miscalculates and then raises the ante. He clearly did not expect the protests that broke out against the scrapping of the EU Association agreement, nor did he foresee that the crackdown would bring even more people to the streets.

Miscalculation. Failure. Escalation. The downing of MH-17 is a logical consequence of the pattern. Putin took the actions that lead to the downing of MH-17 because he believes that he has no other choice. He’s stuck, for lack of a better term and it’s not at all clear that he sees a way out. He must either continue to escalate or betray his own ambitions.

76 freetoken  Jul 26, 2014 3:16:10am
77 Targetpractice  Jul 26, 2014 3:19:21am

I swear, EA’s a drug pusher. “Hey, we know you haven’t played The Sims in forever, and you used to own a copy of The Sims 2 ages ago, so here’s a free copy of the game with all the expansions, just in time to tempt you into buying the 4th game in two months.”

78 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Jul 26, 2014 3:22:04am

The official exchange rate for the Soviet Ruble was more than one dollar per Ruble. By the time I got there in 1992, it had already gone up to 120 per dollar. Two years later it was 7,000 Per dollar, at which point they just knocked off three zeroes to make it 7:1.
So now it is back up to 35:1, and the natural cycle can continue.

79 Dr Lizardo  Jul 26, 2014 3:22:38am

re: #72 wheat-dogghazi

Nationalists there are trying to frame MH17 as a “false flag” by the Ukrainians, the EU, NATO, whatever to justify aggression against Russia, I’m sure, With the Dutch and Malaysians sending police and military to secure the crash site, the Russians’ paranoia will only get worse.

The Kremlin is bending this tragedy just the way it wants.

The Aussies are also sending some folks - including military personnel - to help secure the crash site as well.

The level of paranoia in the Kremlin is already cranked up to 11. I would imagine higher settings are possible, however.

80 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 26, 2014 3:28:26am

Why are there so many useful idiots in the West, carrying water for Putin?

“Illegal to speak Russian” is such an obvious lie - what planet are these morons from?

81 Dr Lizardo  Jul 26, 2014 3:31:22am

re: #75 goddamnedfrank

Good article in Forbes on Putin’s Ukraine gambit and the Malaysian Air shootdown.

This paragraph:

Finally, the price of oil is much more likely to go down than in the next few years. Barron’s recently predicted that it will reach as low as $75, down from it’s current price of just under $110 in the near to medium term. That, along with the sanctions, will devastate the Russian economy and significantly curtail Putin’s capacity to act.

from the Forbes article caught my eye; Russia’s budget is pretty much predicated on the idea that oil will remain in the $100 to $120 p/bbl range. If it fell to $75 p/bbl, as Barron’s has predicted, Russia’s gonna be in a lot of economic trouble at that point, much as what happened in the run-up to the collapse of the USSR.

What goes around comes around.

Here’s the Barron’s article, btw: online.barrons.com

82 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 26, 2014 3:31:45am

re: #75 goddamnedfrank

Eh, um, with a headline like this I’m not sure I wan’t to read further.

83 Dr Lizardo  Jul 26, 2014 3:42:32am

re: #82 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

Eh, um, with a headline like this I’m not sure I wan’t to read further.

It’s a clickbait headline; if I had written it would’ve been

A Series Of Unfortunate Miscalculations (with apologies to Lemony Snicket)

84 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 26, 2014 3:48:24am

re: #83 Dr Lizardo

One flew over the Cuckoo’s nest.

85 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 26, 2014 3:52:31am

Allegedly there is now evidence of Girkin having took part in ethnic cleansing in Bosnia in 1992. He doesn’t hide his participation in the war, but now allegedly there’s more concrete evidence for a specific village. Might just be a bit of propaganda, we’ll see how this plays out.

86 Targetpractice  Jul 26, 2014 4:14:07am

re: #84 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

One flew over the Cuckoo’s nest.

How to Lose Friends and Alienate People.

87 wheat-dogghazi  Jul 26, 2014 4:31:16am

re: #79 Dr Lizardo

The Aussies are also sending some folks - including military personnel - to help secure the crash site as well.

The level of paranoia in the Kremlin is already cranked up to 11. I would imagine higher settings are possible, however.

In fact, I meant to say Australia, although the Malaysians have quite a large contingent of police, forensics experts, doctors, aviation specialists and other personnel in country right now. Some are still in Ukraine while others have joined efforts in the Netherlands to identify and repatriate Malaysian remains. Some Malaysians were hoping the bodies could come back before the end of Ramadan, but it looks unlikely now.

Malaysia is a multi-ethnic country, and the different ethnic and religious groups don’t often get along, but this tragedy, hot on the heels of the MH370 disappearance, has pulled the country together.

88 freetoken  Jul 26, 2014 4:32:27am

re: #81 Dr Lizardo

I would put little faith in that Barron’s article. These type of prognostications are fraught with problems.

Reading the first part of the article told me enough - it is a fluff piece meant more for propaganda than real analysis.

Here is the flip side - the tighter various nations want to restrict Russian trade, the more difficult it will be for them to trade their hydrocarbons. Which will drive up the price of hydrocarbons, not down.

World consumption of fossil fuels appears to be continuing to grow, if one looks at the reports that track consumption. This upward demand will never let the price of fossil fuels fall too far for too long. It will always be a bumpy ride, but global growth in coal, petroleum, and natural gas is broad, now encompassing “the global South”.

Big picture: The world wants Russia’s fossil fuels (climate change be damned.)

89 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 26, 2014 4:36:09am

re: #88 freetoken

fall too far for too long

Doesn’t need to be too low and too long. 1 year of this would be a strong enough jolt, 2 years would cause a crisis in the economy.

90 Dr Lizardo  Jul 26, 2014 4:37:54am

re: #89 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

Doesn’t need to be too low and too long. 1 year of this would be a strong enough jolt, 2 years would cause a crisis in the economy.

Two years of $75 p/bbl oil would blow a pretty good-sized hole in the Russian economy, I’d think.

91 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 26, 2014 4:39:25am

re: #86 Targetpractice

How to Lose Friends and Alienate People.

Dr. Strelkov or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Terror

92 Ryan King  Jul 26, 2014 4:57:49am

re: #49 wheat-dogghazi

I checked. Yes, they did, and Snowden warned GG that NSA and GCHQ were both trying to crack Tor. theguardian.com

How delightful that Snowden’s Russian hosts also now want to hack the Tor network.

Edward Snowden Offers Advice on How the Average Person Can Be More Secure

{Start.voice/BorisBadanoff}
In Mother Russia, information secures you!

93 Rocky-in-Connecticut  Jul 26, 2014 5:01:28am

re: #5 Teukka

Snowden wasn’t “turned”- he’s been an awkward narcissist with a raging sense of self-importance for a long time now.

He hasn’t “turned” in a sense of pledging allegiance to Putin or Russia or anything like that. His allegiance is to himself and only to himself and to what benefits him the most in any given amount of time. I am convinced his decision to go to Russia at the hotel in Hong Kong was his best shot at self preservation at that moment. Since then he has been with Russian handlers but even now they probably know first hand that his personality type needs no “turning”. They can extract what they want simply by massaging his overt narcissism.

Wikileaks on the other hand, was turned a few years ago when Russia made it clear and simple that they would start whacking people within the Wikileaks organization. Wikileaks’ lack of reporting on Russia, or anything not centered on Western activities has been stunning.

94 lawhawk  Jul 26, 2014 5:19:06am

re: #91 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

Dr. Strelkov or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Terror

And yet… I keep reading this as Dr. Strelnikov or How I learned to stop worrying and love Lara.

95 lawhawk  Jul 26, 2014 5:20:12am

re: #89 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

And that kind of price drop would take the bottom out from under the Iranians, who have an even more precarious economic situation than the Russians.

96 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 26, 2014 5:21:17am

It’s a bit surprising how hapless the “separatists” have been about basic PR.

E.g. this photo has been making rounds in the press:An obviously untelegenic, unkempt man holding up a victim’s toy. The untold implication - that it’s some sort of a trophy demonstration - has been expressed many times in various comments by simple users. It’s not fact-based, because on the video we see that the man is obviously not bragging or displaying a trophy, but if one doesn’t know the immediate context (but only the larger one), that’s exactly the impression one gets.

Another classic misstep was this:The photo almost looks like it’s been made in Gaza.

Modern wars are also PR wars, and the “separatists” have been shooting themselves in the foot time after time.

97 lawhawk  Jul 26, 2014 5:24:25am

re: #96 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

The top photo also shows the casualness of the guy picking through the wreckage - the holding of the gun and the cigarette. Not professional, and that adds to the overall perception that these guys aren’t doing anything to protect the site, recover the victims with dignity and respect, and are more than willing to rifle through the belongings of those killed in the crash.

98 Lidane  Jul 26, 2014 5:25:20am
99 Lidane  Jul 26, 2014 5:27:53am
100 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 26, 2014 5:34:20am

Max Seddon’s reporting on Ukraine at Buzzfeed has really been great journalism.

buzzfeed.com

101 BongCrodny  Jul 26, 2014 5:43:14am

re: #60 RealityBasedSteve

No, you can pick them up at the gift store, but you’ll save about 50% if you get them at one of the factory outlets near by.

RBS

I get mine at Jos. A. Crank.

102 b.d.  Jul 26, 2014 5:53:48am

HOW DARE 0BUMMER EVACUATE OUR EMBASSY IN LIBYA!!!

103 Backwoods_Sleuth  Jul 26, 2014 5:57:13am
104 ObserverArt  Jul 26, 2014 5:58:05am

re: #96 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

It’s a bit surprising how hapless the “separatists” have been about basic PR.

E.g. this photo has been making rounds in the press:[Embedded image]An obviously untelegenic, unkempt man holding up a victim’s toy. The untold implication - that it’s some sort of a trophy demonstration - has been expressed many times in various comments by simple users. It’s not fact-based, because on the video we see that the man is obviously not bragging or displaying a trophy, but if one doesn’t know the immediate context (but only the larger one), that’s exactly the impression one gets.

Another classic misstep was this:[Embedded image]The photo almost looks like it’s been made in Gaza.

Modern wars are also PR wars, and the “separatists” have been shooting themselves in the foot time after time.

Sheesh…that bottom image looks like a bunch of American Gun Bubba’s protecting someone from Clive Bundy’s Ranch Family so they can get the latest report in to FOX news.

105 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Jul 26, 2014 6:02:29am

re: #96 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

I’d say wars have always been PR-heavy, but that the ready availability of cell phones and uploading ability has put the PR in the hands of ‘amateurs’ now.

I also find it incredibly strange when militaries get on twitter and start basically smack-talking.

106 ObserverArt  Jul 26, 2014 6:05:23am

re: #105 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

I’d say wars have always been PR-heavy, but that the ready availability of cell phones and uploading ability has put the PR in the hands of ‘amateurs’ now.

I also find it incredibly strange when militaries get on twitter and start basically smack-talking.

Well, if they can do all their warring online, it might not be a bad thing. They can also add to the smack talk by fighting it out in online games.

107 Dark_Falcon  Jul 26, 2014 6:05:28am

re: #104 ObserverArt

Sheesh…that bottom image looks like a bunch of American Gun Bubba’s protecting someone from Clive Bundy’s Ranch Family so they can get the latest report in to FOX news.

It’s just like that, except that the Russians have better trigger discipline and the person putting in the report is sending it to Russia Today.

108 ObserverArt  Jul 26, 2014 6:08:36am

re: #107 Dark_Falcon

It’s just like that, except that the Russians have better trigger discipline and the person putting in the report is sending it to Russia Today.

Hey Dark…nice to see you around. How are you doing? Are you past the infection issues?

109 Targetpractice  Jul 26, 2014 6:08:59am

According to an article from NRO that a wingnut presented to me, American Jews should totally run into the arms of the GOTP because they love Israel and Democrats don’t. Yegods.

110 Dark_Falcon  Jul 26, 2014 6:10:02am

re: #99 Lidane

[Embedded content]

On that same note, it’s time for another installment of Dark_Falcon’s ‘Benghazi’ News Stories That Are Actually About The City Of Benghazi:

Libya’s anti-Islamist offensive suffers setback

The anti-Islamist campaign led by the renegade general Khalifa Haftar appeared to suffer a significant setback on 21 July when the radical group Ansar al-Sharia overrun two neighbouring bases in Benghazi.

The Camp 319 and 36th Battalion bases in the city’s Bu Atni neighbourhood were defended by the Al-Saiqa special forces unit the latter announced its support for Haftar when he launched Operation ‘Dignity’ against Islamist militias in May.

Both Al-Jazeera and the Libyan Herald cited unidentified sources as saying the Ansar al-Sharia attack was repulsed with the help of the Libyan Air Force, much of which is loyal to Haftar.

However, Al-Saiqa commander Wanis Abu Khamadah suggested his force had fared less well when he released a statement on 22 July calling for the central government to provide assistance against the militants. Haftar and his supporters have previously ignored the authority of the weak central government.

111 Dark_Falcon  Jul 26, 2014 6:11:15am

re: #108 ObserverArt

Hey Dark…nice to see you around. How are you doing? Are you past the infection issues?

Not totally. The screwy weather around here made my leg swell up again yesterday. The swellings gone down a good bit overnight, though.

112 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 26, 2014 6:12:07am

re: #104 ObserverArt

Sheesh…that bottom image looks like a bunch of American Gun Bubba’s protecting someone from Clive Bundy’s Ranch Family so they can get the latest report in to FOX news.

The guy in the middle is Aleksandr Borodaj (Borodai), Strelkov’s bff. A “prime-minister of DNR” who also happens to be a Russian citizen.

113 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Jul 26, 2014 6:23:32am

re: #109 Targetpractice

According to an article from NRO that a wingnut presented to me, American Jews should totally run into the arms of the GOTP because they love Israel and Democrats don’t. Yegods.

What a shitty article.

Sure, there was a pogrom at a synagogue in Paris, but, well, that’s Paris.

Definition of a pogrom: an organized massacre.

Muslims and their neo-fascist and leftist allies might walk through the streets of Germany shouting anti-Jewish slogans reminiscent of the Hitler Youth, but, well, that’s Germany.

The neo-fascists, rather obviously, are anti-Muslim and have been for a long time.

Then came the pro-Hamas demonstrations in Los Angeles, Boston, and Chicago.

Classifying pro-palestinian protests as ‘pro-Hamas’.

In San Francisco, if not for the police, some 30 pro-Israel protesters would have been brutalized by over 300 people demonstrating on behalf of the genocidal Hamas terrorists.

And the author knows this because of his ability to look into alternate realities.

Sounds of a vicious, leftist anti-Semitism associated with anti-Zionism have long been audible in American society, but Jewish-community leaders, cut from leftist cloth, refused to acknowledge them.

US Jews have always been aware of the anti-semitism in US society, which is on both the ‘right’ and the ‘left’. They have consistently chosen to support the ‘left’ because the right’s support of Christian supremacy is really obviously the more dangerous threat than the mostly-fringe anti-semitism on the left, which has no real consequences for US Jews and only very minor consequences for our relationship with Israel.

I have to wonder if those Jews pushed back on the streets of San Francisco by frenzied haters recognized some of their opponents from joint ventures on gun control, gay and lesbian rights, reproductive rights, and interfaith dialogues.

Yes, maybe. It’s entirely possible for people to have some things in common and other things not. So what?

Those who believe in women’s rights, gay rights, reproductive rights, and human rights have cast their lot with people whose culture violates the basic dignities of freedom. What explains that? Hatred!

They haven’t ‘cast their lot’. Blanket condemnation of Muslim and/or Palestinian culture, while at the same time calling out ‘hatred’. Double-irony bonus round.

If you are going to hate anyone, hate Jews, because no one cares.

Except for leftists who have fought consistently against the Christian supremacy advocated by the GOP and the right-wing in the US.

The palpable anti-Semitism visible in recent demonstrations here in the United States has caused some of our progressive community leaders to come out strongly for Israel, but in so doing, they have to showcase their progressive credentials, as if it is necessary to say, take me seriously because I too am a progressive and I support Israel.

When I claimed that progressives are anti-Israel I had to ignore progressive support for Israel. Now let me awkwardly try to deal with that. WHoops, I failed.

Forgive me if I am not awed by progressive credentials, especially knowing that these are the people who helped put this administration in office. Why did the Federal Aviation Administration cancel flights to Tel Aviv, when flights to Ukraine, where a passenger plane actually was downed, continue?

Because flights to the Ukraine weren’t going near separatist-controlled territory.

As for progressivism, gay marriage is not worth putting the lives of 6 million Jews in the hands of an incompetent, indifferent president, whose cultural affinity is with Islam.

Whoops, let the mask slip a bit there with accusations that Obama’s ‘cultural affinity’ is with Islam. And the idea that the US alone decides Israel’s fate is pretty mind-bogglingly patronizing.

Progressive Democrats do not support Israel in this existential struggle, but the Republicans do.

Ignore that he just talked about progressive leaders supporting Israel.

The modern anti-Semitism that now concerns our progressive leaders is an outgrowth of the Left.

Hitler recruited from elements at the margins of Germany’s economy.

Oh yeah, Hitler/progressives, people at the margins are on the ‘left’. God what a terrible argument.

There is a reason he called his movement National Socialism and infused it with an ideology of workers’ rights.

And it’s not because he was actually on the ‘left’. Why can’t stupid GOP fuckers let go of the idea that Hitler was a leftist? It makes them look goddamn insane.

In the meantime, their failure to do so only means that, increasingly, American Jews will have to start behaving and thinking like French Jews, because the bigotry of Islam and its leftist allies does not end at Europe’s coast.

Increasingly, AMerican Jews are getting scared by and threatened by and angry at the GOP’s transformation into the White Christian Supremacist party.

114 Targetpractice  Jul 26, 2014 6:34:56am

re: #113 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

The whole thing could, with some words changes, be used to describe any of the groups that the GOTP simply cannot get to support it in the numbers that its evangelical base does. African Americans, Hispanic Americans, Jews, Women, all of who don’t see how much Republicans love them, despite all the hate they regularly throw their way.

It’s the attitude of an abusive boyfriend who refuses to acknowledge that he drove his girlfriend off and instead remains convinced that somebody else (family, friends, police, etc) “brainwashed” her into believing that he’s a monster when really he just has trouble controlling his anger.

115 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Jul 26, 2014 6:37:43am

re: #114 Targetpractice

That words like ‘pogrom’ and ‘genocide’ are being tossed around so casually completely fucking infuriates me.

116 wheat-dogghazi  Jul 26, 2014 6:38:30am

re: #113 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

And it’s not because he was actually on the ‘left’. Why can’t stupid GOP fuckers let go of the idea that Hitler was a leftist? It makes them look goddamn insane.

I think it’s a version of DARVO. They subconsciously see the similarities between their attitudes and Hitler’s, but since Hitler is generally regarded as evil and despicable, they project Hitler onto the leftist side of the spectrum rather than admit to his belonging on their side.

Meanwhile, a student from Xinjiang has been posting photos of Hitler and the Nazi eagle with swastika in his Weibo timeline. I’m not sure how to approach him on this subject. He’s not one of my students. Until recently I thought he was a pretty levelheaded guy, but now I wonder.

117 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 26, 2014 6:44:07am

I find the left-right distinction only useful in very local contexts, e.g. when discussing the US politics. This distinction cannot be scaled up when talking about the l-r divide elsewhere without losing very important nuances.

If you call Hitler a “leftist” (e.g. because of his welfare state or because of the 4 year plan), do it, if you must, but only if you specify that this has nothing whatsoever to do with the American left (i.e. you are using the word that only looks the same but doesn’t carry the same meaning) and only when you point out that he was a socially conservative leftist, thus, if anything, having more significant parallels to the American right than to the American left. Hitler’s infamy is predicated not upon his supposedly left-wing economic policy, but upon his socially conservative, reactionary, ultranationalist policies. He is not remembered as a monster because he “built roads” like a “leftist”, but because of his radically right-wing policies toward minorities.

118 Dark_Falcon  Jul 26, 2014 6:50:00am

re: #116 wheat-dogghazi

Hitler doesn’t really ‘belong to’ either side of the American political spectrum. It’s really more based on the point of “Nazi = National Socialist”, which is a meme pounded upon by NRO writer Jonah Goldberg, author of Liberal Fascism.

119 wheat-dogghazi  Jul 26, 2014 6:52:34am

re: #118 Dark_Falcon

Hitler doesn’t really ‘belong to’ either side of the American political spectrum. It’s really more based on the point of “Nazi = National Socialist”, which is a meme pounded upon by NRO writer Jonah Goldberg, author of Liberal Fascism.

Yeah, I know. Goldberg took the word “socialist” and ran with it to an illogical conclusion. His political analysis is sadly considered deep thinking among many RWNJs.

120 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 26, 2014 6:52:51am

AP journalists saw the Buk in Snezhnoye:

hosted.ap.org

121 Targetpractice  Jul 26, 2014 6:53:17am

re: #118 Dark_Falcon

Hitler doesn’t really ‘belong to’ either side of the American political spectrum. It’s really more based on the point of “Nazi = National Socialist”, which is a meme pounded upon by NRO writer Jonah Goldberg, author of Liberal Fascism.

That and the “Pink Swastika” horseshit that conservative Christians love to believe because it helps them demonize homosexuality.

122 darthstar  Jul 26, 2014 6:53:23am

re: #1 Charles Johnson

Promoted, because I can hardly believe this one.

The country that shelters Edward Snowden, offering a reward to crack Tor. Freaking unreal.

Also fun is the fact that the US Government still finances some of Tor’s development - something Greenwald fails to mention when he’s telling everyone to use it.

123 darthstar  Jul 26, 2014 6:55:25am

re: #118 Dark_Falcon

Holy shit, DF! I was wondering aloud about you the other day (to your credit, I imagined you in a hot tub with two red-heads and a bottle of tequila). What’s new?

124 Dark_Falcon  Jul 26, 2014 6:57:43am

re: #123 darthstar

Holy shit, DF! I was wondering aloud about you the other day (to your credit, I imagined you in a hot tub with two red-heads and a bottle of tequila). What’s new?

I’ve just been busy is part of it. But when I’m at home I tend to be either in bed or in a reclining chair that lets me keep my legs elevated. As a result, I haven’t been online much in July.

125 darthstar  Jul 26, 2014 6:57:45am
126 Targetpractice  Jul 26, 2014 6:59:19am

re: #125 darthstar

[Embedded content]

Obviously the President has imposed an economic boycott on Libya now…wait, what?

///

127 darthstar  Jul 26, 2014 7:00:25am

re: #124 Dark_Falcon

I’ve just been busy is part of it. But when I’m at home I tend to be either in bed or in a reclining chair that lets me keep my legs elevated. As a result, I haven’t been online much in July.

Okay, good to know you’re okay. Don’t drop off the radar like that. People were wondering if you’d gone off and joined Code Pink or Greenpeace or something.

128 darthstar  Jul 26, 2014 7:01:06am

re: #126 Targetpractice

Obviously the President has imposed an economic boycott on Libya now…wait, what?

///

It’s a fairly direct statement:

The Department of State warns U.S. citizens against all travel to Libya and recommends that U.S. citizens currently in Libya depart immediately.

129 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 26, 2014 7:01:14am

Strelkov-“Kotych” writes that there won’t be any further messages from him:

forum-antikvariat.ru

130 darthstar  Jul 26, 2014 7:04:19am

re: #129 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

Strelkov-“Kotych” writes that there won’t be any further messages from him:

forum-antikvariat.ru

His English sucks.

131 darthstar  Jul 26, 2014 7:06:54am

It’s good to see Schindler recovered from his dick pic fiasco. I enjoy his tweets. Fortunately, he knew a week offline was the same as a 12 year hiatus in internet time.

132 darthstar  Jul 26, 2014 7:09:22am

If we can’t suppress the vote, we’ll have to survive the old fashioned way - by programming the young to be paranoid idiots.

thinkprogress.org

Conservative filmmaker Dinesh D’Souza may be getting an influx of new viewers of his documentary film ‘America’ after a Republican state senator from Florida said he plans on introducing a bill to make the movie mandatory in public schools.

Republican Alan Hays, inspired after seeing the movie in theaters, said he now plans on introducing a one-page bill in November which would require all 1,700 Florida high schools and middle schools to show the movie to their students, unless their parents choose to opt them out.

133 FemNaziBitch  Jul 26, 2014 7:10:34am

It’s morning, I’m dealing with a headache —

you?

134 FemNaziBitch  Jul 26, 2014 7:13:44am

I just hit 550 Twitter followers —another 5000 and I might be relevant

DF, glad you are alive and well, we did discuss your absence.

135 ObserverArt  Jul 26, 2014 7:14:19am

re: #119 wheat-dogghazi

Yeah, I know. Goldberg took the word “socialist” and ran with it to an illogical conclusion. His political analysis is sadly considered deep thinking among many RWNJs.

Only because they are hearing what they want to hear and it continues the big group hug and continues the hate for Obama and anything moderate right on through center to the actual left.

They don’t need to use words in context or in their correct usage/definition. It seems to be some sort of language “impressionism” and like a painting, you need to stand back and look at the image in totality and not concentrate on the little flecks of paint that build that impression.

Obi did a hell of a job breaking down all those flecks…but the intended viewers only want the big image even if they don’t know how the hell they arrived at it.

136 Teukka  Jul 26, 2014 7:14:49am

re: #133 FemNaziBitch

It’s morning, I’m dealing with a headache —

you?

Dealing with a Class II heatwave in town. 30°C+ for 5 days or more. First time in history that has happened.
With any luck, T-storms tomorrow and the next coupla days, tho past promised T-storms have evaporated as the dates for their supposed appearance have come closer.

*waves magic wand in air and mutters ‘Picnic’*

137 Dark_Falcon  Jul 26, 2014 7:14:59am

re: #134 FemNaziBitch

I just hit 550 Twitter followers —another 5000 and I might be relevant

DF, glad you are alive and well, we did discuss your absence.

I was never in danger of dying.

138 darthstar  Jul 26, 2014 7:17:49am

Good video…they even drop the camera over the side so you can see down to the bottom.

139 darthstar  Jul 26, 2014 7:18:47am

re: #137 Dark_Falcon

I was never in danger of dying.

We can dream!
//

140 FemNaziBitch  Jul 26, 2014 7:19:04am
141 FemNaziBitch  Jul 26, 2014 7:19:54am

re: #138 darthstar

Good video…they even drop the camera over the side so you can see down to the bottom.

[Embedded content]

The Earth, it is a changin’.

142 FemNaziBitch  Jul 26, 2014 7:20:16am

re: #139 darthstar

We can dream!
//

Can’t you just feel the love?

:0

143 Dark_Falcon  Jul 26, 2014 7:20:33am

re: #128 darthstar

It’s a fairly direct statement:

Here’s a broader look at Gen. Haftar and his actions:

Retired general launches war against Islamists in eastern Libya

Jane’s is quite good regarding Libya.

144 FemNaziBitch  Jul 26, 2014 7:23:22am
145 Dark_Falcon  Jul 26, 2014 7:24:01am

re: #138 darthstar

Good video…they even drop the camera over the side so you can see down to the bottom.

[Embedded content]

We really need to find out what caused those sinkholes to form. We need to know because it would be immensely beneficial to the US if such a sinkhole were to swiftly open under Sarah Palin’s house while she was in it.

/almost entirely kidding.

146 Killgore Trout  Jul 26, 2014 7:24:54am

Israel Bombs Gaza While Hamas’ Kidnapping Mastermind Sits in Turkey

the Hamas commander who is seen by Israel as responsible for a wave of kidnapping attempts in the West Bank is actually based in Turkey. Saleh al-Arouri, that senior Hamas operative, makes his home inside the territory of a NATO ally.

“The Israelis say he was one of the key operational leaders who has been calling for and overseeing these various kidnapping plots over the past two years,” said Matthew Levitt, the director of the Stein Program on Counterterrorism & Intelligence at The Washington Institute for Near East Policy. “It’s not that he was necessarily on the phone with these kidnappers, but kidnapping in general has been a key focus for Hamas operatives in the last two years and al-Arouri has been encouraging it.”

147 FemNaziBitch  Jul 26, 2014 7:24:55am

EXACTLY!

148 sattv4u2  Jul 26, 2014 7:25:43am

re: #123 darthstar

Holy shit, DF! I was wondering aloud about you the other day (to your credit, I imagined you in a hot tub with two red-heads and a bottle of tequila). What’s new?

The red heads tossed him out and kept the bottle!!

149 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 26, 2014 7:26:28am

re: #138 darthstar

Good video…they even drop the camera over the side so you can see down to the bottom.

[Embedded content]

Except it’s the first one. The second one is relatively small.

150 Killgore Trout  Jul 26, 2014 7:27:30am

re: #143 Dark_Falcon

Here’s a broader look at Gen. Haftar and his actions:

Retired general launches war against Islamists in eastern Libya

Jane’s is quite good regarding Libya.

This is interesting…

Haftar claimed to have “indirect contacts” with the US. “I don’t think the Americans will stay away from this fight against terrorism,” he told IHS Jane’s . “We are battling an enemy hated by the whole world.” The US ambassador to Libya, Deborah Jones, subsequently stated in late May that although she cannot condemn Haftar for pursuing the same people wanted by the US - including Ansar al-Sharia - that does not mean she supports him. These remarks were interpreted in Libya as an implicit endorsement of his operation.

151 Joanne  Jul 26, 2014 7:27:33am

re: #119 wheat-dogghazi

Yeah, I know. Goldberg took the word “socialist” and ran with it to an illogical conclusion. His political analysis is sadly considered deep thinking among many RWNJs.

I don’t think it was an “illogical conclusion”, I think it was a calculated decision, purposeful to “prove” his title Liberal Fascism.

152 Targetpractice  Jul 26, 2014 7:28:42am

re: #144 FemNaziBitch

[Embedded content]

Obviously that can’t be the case. It’s not the violent drug gangs whose products are widely sold in the US that are the cause of this flight from those countries. It’s obviously the President’s “invitation” that was passed six years ago on such a wide bipartisan margin that it was put to a voice vote!

/////

153 Killgore Trout  Jul 26, 2014 7:29:54am

re: #151 Joanne

I don’t think it was an “illogical conclusion”, I think it was a calculated decision, purposeful to “prove” his title Liberal Fascism.

It’s historical revisionism. I would guess Goldberg sees the widespread acceptance of his talking point to be a victory but all he’s really accomplished is making his side dumber.

154 Feline Fearless Leader  Jul 26, 2014 7:30:00am

re: #145 Dark_Falcon

We really need to find out what caused those sinkholes to form. We need to know because it would be immensely beneficial to the US if such a sinkhole were to swiftly open under Sarah Palin’s house while she was in it.

/almost entirely kidding.

Imagine the freakout of denial if it’s somehow connected to global warming. Some sort of methane outgassing possibly.

155 FemNaziBitch  Jul 26, 2014 7:30:11am

I think I’m going to make a new jpg: I am NOT my Hymen

156 sattv4u2  Jul 26, 2014 7:30:46am

re: #153 Killgore Trout

It’s historical revisionism. I would guess Goldberg sees the widespread acceptance of his talking point to be a victory but all he’s really accomplished is making his side dumber book sales and increasing his bank account.

ftfy

157 FemNaziBitch  Jul 26, 2014 7:31:52am

Must get on with my day.

bbl

158 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 26, 2014 7:32:26am

C’mon, cartoonist. Was it so hard to draw 3 missiles instead of 4?

159 darthstar  Jul 26, 2014 7:34:17am

re: #149 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

Except it’s the first one. The second one is relatively small.

I always watch these things with the sound off (so I don’t wake my wife)…Still, it’s a cool video of a hole.

160 PhillyPretzel  Jul 26, 2014 7:34:27am

re: #158 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

Yes, it was. Cartoonist had to prove he could count to 4. //

161 Decatur Deb  Jul 26, 2014 7:36:47am

re: #155 FemNaziBitch

I think I’m going to make a new jpg: I am NOT my Hymen

[Embedded content]

Too easily misunderstood.

latimesblogs.latimes.com

162 Teukka  Jul 26, 2014 7:36:50am

re: #138 darthstar

Good video…they even drop the camera over the side so you can see down to the bottom.

[Embedded content]

re: #154 Feline Fearless Leader

Imagine the freakout of denial if it’s somehow connected to global warming. Some sort of methane outgassing possibly.

Well, the last thing I want the hole to be is a methane clathrate deposit going off, I’d prefer it was a sinkhole or a methane pocket that popped, but given that the permafrost goes right to the edge of the hole, the only thing I can see that could have enough power to pop a hole like that is a clathrate deposit popping.

Which is bad, especially in light of the suspected second hole created by the same mechanism, because that increases the likelihood that Ma Nature has taken to second amendment remedies.

And if that scenario plays out, we will see more of these forming in Siberia, maybe even some on camera, followed or accompanied by clathrate deposits on the continental shelves thawing.

And there will be no denying it then, the fertilizer will impact the air distribution apparatus that hard.

163 HappyWarrior  Jul 26, 2014 7:37:15am

re: #155 FemNaziBitch

I think I’m going to make a new jpg: I am NOT my Hymen

[Embedded content]

And I miss the good old days where we could toss aside the elderly when they ran out their use like Pat here has.//

164 Targetpractice  Jul 26, 2014 7:37:35am

re: #155 FemNaziBitch

I think I’m going to make a new jpg: I am NOT my Hymen

[Embedded content]

It’s a sign of how screwed-up Pat’s flock is that a couple has their son and soon-to-be daughter-in-law living under their roof, with a grandson on the way, and all they can do is worry that they’re going to go to Hell for not slamming the door in their son’s face the moment he admitted he had had sex out of wedlock.

165 HappyWarrior  Jul 26, 2014 7:41:12am

re: #164 Targetpractice

It’s a sign of how screwed-up Pat’s flock is that a couple has their son and soon-to-be daughter-in-law living under their roof, with a grandson on the way, and all they can do is worry that they’re going to go to Hell for not slamming the door in their son’s face the moment he admitted he had had sex out of wedlock.

I actually find it sad really. But then again they do make the choice to see this demented old ass as some sort of man of God when in fact he’s a bigoted old asshole who’s spent a lifetime and made a career out of judging other people when he should be looking at himself.

166 Decatur Deb  Jul 26, 2014 7:41:44am

re: #162 Teukka

Well, the last thing I want the hole to be is a methane clathrate deposit going off, I’d prefer it was a sinkhole or a methane pocket that popped, but given that the permafrost goes right to the edge of the hole, the only thing I can see that could have enough power to pop a hole like that is a clathrate deposit popping.

Which is bad, especially in light of the suspected second hole created by the same mechanism, because that increases the likelihood that Ma Nature has taken to second amendment remedies.

And if that scenario plays out, we will see more of these forming in Siberia, maybe even some on camera, followed or accompanied by clathrate deposits on the continental shelves thawing.

And there will be no denying it then, the fertilizer will impact the air distribution apparatus that hard.

A gradual descent into ‘irretrievable’ territory is not going to reverse the world-wide failure of the political process. Perhaps a few acres in the face will.

167 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 26, 2014 7:45:54am

OK, here is the story I wrote about earlier. But since this is not Girkin on the photo, seems like propaganda.

ibtimes.co.uk

168 wheat-dogghazi  Jul 26, 2014 7:45:59am

re: #145 Dark_Falcon

Sarah spends most her time in AZ now, I think. But we can still hope for a dust storm, I suppose.

//

169 Backwoods_Sleuth  Jul 26, 2014 7:47:49am

re: #168 wheat-dogghazi

Sarah spends most her time in AZ now, I think. But we can still hope for a dust storm haboob!, I suppose.

//

FTFY!

170 Killgore Trout  Jul 26, 2014 7:48:24am

This is making the rounds….

I’m wary of the sourcing of the article but it’s worth a read. I think it’s important to remember that the US also claimed there was evidence that Hamas was responsible so if you’re going to believe that this was all a conspiracy to frame Hamas I think you’re going to have to implicate Obama as well.
Regardless of the veracity of the article, I think it’s a mistake to claim this incursion into Gaza is a response to the kidnappings (of both Israeli and Palestinian teens). Although the kidnapping was a factor in the lead up to the incursion the main factor in Israeli thinking was the increase in rocket fire and the use of tunnels into Israel.

171 darthstar  Jul 26, 2014 7:50:11am

re: #162 Teukka

Well, the last thing I want the hole to be is a methane clathrate deposit going off, I’d prefer it was a sinkhole or a methane pocket that popped, but given that the permafrost goes right to the edge of the hole, the only thing I can see that could have enough power to pop a hole like that is a clathrate deposit popping.

Which is bad, especially in light of the suspected second hole created by the same mechanism, because that increases the likelihood that Ma Nature has taken to second amendment remedies.

And if that scenario plays out, we will see more of these forming in Siberia, maybe even some on camera, followed or accompanied by clathrate deposits on the continental shelves thawing.

And there will be no denying it then, the fertilizer will impact the air distribution apparatus that hard.

I laughed at that last sentence. But getting back to the second amendment remedies - I’ve often thought that our relationship with the earth was a parasitic one, and that our host will, when the time comes, shrug us off. There are occasional reminders of just how small and insignificant we are - the tsunami in 2004 and again in Japan last year, recent surges in volcanic activity, and now holes opening up.

When mother earth shivers, has a muscle spasm, or sneezes, hang on to something stable.

172 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Jul 26, 2014 7:50:43am

re: #170 Killgore Trout

I think it’s important to remember that the US also claimed there was evidence that Hamas was responsible so if you’re going to believe that this was all a conspiracy to frame Hamas I think you’re going to have to implicate Obama as well.

You don’t have to allege a conspiracy, just a mistake, bad assumption, or screwup. Also, the US and Obama are not synonymous, and it’s entirely possible for people in the US to screw up without it being Obama’s fault.

Although the kidnapping was a factor in the lead up to the incursion the main factor in Israeli thinking was the increase in rocket fire and the use of tunnels into Israel.

Now that’s some class A, shiny, brand-spanking new revisionism. Still has that new-revisionism smell.

173 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 26, 2014 7:51:41am

re: #167 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

Acc. to specnaz.ru it’s Andrey Martynov, Aleksandr Mukharyov (“As”/”Ace”) and “Boban”.

174 Killgore Trout  Jul 26, 2014 7:53:33am

Been dusting off my twitter after many years of neglect. I’m trying not to fall into the trap of only following folks I agree with 100% but I’m thinking of unfollowing PZ Meyers. I can handle his anti-Israeli stuff but he’s kind of an obnoxious atheist douche. I wish my fellow non-beleivers weren’t such assholes.

175 Teukka  Jul 26, 2014 7:54:24am

re: #166 Decatur Deb

A gradual descent into ‘irretrievable’ territory is not going to reverse the world-wide failure of the political process. Perhaps a few acres in the face will.

Methane is potent enough a GHG to be felt relatively rapidly. Also, if the clathrates on the continental shelves begin popping, they will have knock-on effects such as massive (and I mean massive) explosions out at sea and tsunamis caused by underwater landslides caused by clathrate deposits popping.

John Q. Public: What’s that?
Scientist: Climate change.
JQP: But our honorable TPGOPer told us it was all a scam.
S: It wasn’t. By the way if you see that politician, tell him us scientists said “told ya so”.
JQP: FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!

That will be the political scenario. Beyond that is anyone’s guess. But I suspect it will be very messy.

176 darthstar  Jul 26, 2014 7:54:57am

re: #170 Killgore Trout

At least you called it an incursion and not an ‘exercise’…we’ll see if it turns into a siege.

Bottom line is it’s a wasted and misguided effort. And if it spurs a new intifada, we can add a couple of zeroes to the body counts…on both sides.

177 Teukka  Jul 26, 2014 7:55:20am

re: #171 darthstar

I laughed at that last sentence. But getting back to the second amendment remedies - I’ve often thought that our relationship with the earth was a parasitic one, and that our host will, when the time comes, shrug us off. There are occasional reminders of just how small and insignificant we are - the tsunami in 2004 and again in Japan last year, recent surges in volcanic activity, and now holes opening up.

When mother earth shivers, has a muscle spasm, or sneezes, hang on to something stable.

And when she whips out her piece, bend over and take it like a man…

178 Dark_Falcon  Jul 26, 2014 7:55:41am

re: #172 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

You don’t have to allege a conspiracy, just a mistake, bad assumption, or screwup. Also, the US and Obama are not synonymous, and it’s entirely possible for people in the US to screw up without it being Obama’s fault.

Now that’s some class A, shiny, brand-spanking new revisionism. Still has that new-revisionism smell.

if you want to read some interesting revisionism, pick up the current issue of Strategy & Tactics. It has a very interesting look at pre-WWI German war planning and posits that what we think of as the ‘Schlieffen Plan’ was actually the brainchild of von Moltke the Younger.

179 Decatur Deb  Jul 26, 2014 7:55:41am

re: #170 Killgore Trout

This is making the rounds….

[Embedded content]

I’m wary of the sourcing of the article but it’s worth a read. I think it’s important to remember that the US also claimed there was evidence that Hamas was responsible so if you’re going to believe that this was all a conspiracy to frame Hamas I think you’re going to have to implicate Obama as well.
Regardless of the veracity of the article, I think it’s a mistake to claim this incursion into Gaza is a response to the kidnappings (of both Israeli and Palestinian teens). Although the kidnapping was a factor in the lead up to the incursion the main factor in Israeli thinking was the increase in rocket fire and the use of tunnels into Israel.

Handy to have around, those lone wolves. Unless you’re a Las Vegas cop.

The pattern of action-reaction-overreaction is canned on the shelf, just waiting for an outrage. (Sorry, was I talking about Sderot? I meant El Paso.)

180 darthstar  Jul 26, 2014 7:56:02am

re: #174 Killgore Trout

Been dusting off my twitter after many years of neglect. I’m trying not to fall into the trap of only following folks I agree with 100% but I’m thinking of unfollowing PZ Meyers. I can handle his anti-Israeli stuff but he’s kind of an obnoxious atheist douche. I wish my fellow non-beleivers weren’t such assholes.

What’s wrong with being an obnoxious atheist douche?

181 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Jul 26, 2014 7:56:19am

re: #178 Dark_Falcon

if you want to read some interesting revisionism, pick up the current issue of Strategy & Tactics. It has a very interesting look at pre-WWI German war planning and posits that what we think of as the ‘Schlieffen Plan’ was actually the brainchild of von Moltke the Younger.

Since I know jack shit about WWI beyond class stuff in Britain, it wouldn’t even be revisionism for me.

182 sattv4u2  Jul 26, 2014 7:56:38am

re: #174 Killgore Trout

I wish my fellow non-beleivers weren’t such assholes.

Maybe if you prayed for them!!

///

183 Killgore Trout  Jul 26, 2014 7:58:48am

re: #180 darthstar

What’s wrong with being an obnoxious atheist douche?

As an obnoxious atheist douche myself, it gets boring. Hitchens was at his best when he wasn’t talking about atheism and religion.

184 Killgore Trout  Jul 26, 2014 7:59:09am

re: #182 sattv4u2

I wish my fellow non-beleivers weren’t such assholes.

Maybe if you prayed for them!!

///

lol.

185 darthstar  Jul 26, 2014 7:59:11am

re: #181 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

Since I know jack shit about WWI beyond class stuff in Britain, it wouldn’t even be revisionism for me.

If we’d beaten Hitler in WWI, WWII wouldn’t have happened.

186 Decatur Deb  Jul 26, 2014 7:59:22am

re: #181 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

Since I know jack shit about WWI beyond class stuff in Britain, it wouldn’t even be revisionism for me.

The old ‘Military Channel’ starts a new series on WWI this Sunday, anniversary-oriented. Hope they have saved historic footage.

187 darthstar  Jul 26, 2014 8:01:25am

re: #183 Killgore Trout

As an obnoxious atheist douche myself, it gets boring. Hitchens was at his best when he wasn’t talking about atheism and religion.

Oh, evangelical obnoxious atheist doucheism…that’s different. I used to be one of those. Now I look at the people standing by bible displays at the train station on my way to work and just give them a friendly smile. Arguing with them is pointless. I only ask that they don’t vote, or reproduce.

188 Killgore Trout  Jul 26, 2014 8:02:10am

re: #176 darthstar

At least you called it an incursion and not an ‘exercise’…we’ll see if it turns into a siege.

Bottom line is it’s a wasted and misguided effort. And if it spurs a new intifada, we can add a couple of zeroes to the body counts…on both sides.

Given the pattern we’ve seen over the past few decades this is something that has to happen every couple years. I’m not sure what it will take to break out of this rut but this is where we’re stuck for the foreseeable future.

189 sattv4u2  Jul 26, 2014 8:02:20am

re: #186 Decatur Deb

The old ‘Military Channel’ starts a new series on WWI this Sunday, anniversary-oriented. Hope they have saved historic footage.

I hear it has a surprise ending!!
/

190 wheat-dogghazi  Jul 26, 2014 8:03:25am

re: #185 darthstar

If we’d beaten Hitler in WWI, WWII wouldn’t have happened Germany wouldn’t have bombed Pearl Harbor.

191 Dark_Falcon  Jul 26, 2014 8:03:47am

re: #181 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

Since I know jack shit about WWI beyond class stuff in Britain, it wouldn’t even be revisionism for me.

Just trying to put you towards stuff that I thought might interest you, Obdi.

192 Decatur Deb  Jul 26, 2014 8:04:05am

re: #189 sattv4u2

I hear it has a surprise ending!!
/

Started with a bang.

193 Killgore Trout  Jul 26, 2014 8:04:10am

re: #187 darthstar

Oh, evangelical obnoxious atheist doucheism…that’s different. I used to be one of those. Now I look at the people standing by bible displays at the train station on my way to work and just give them a friendly smile. Arguing with them is pointless. I only ask that they don’t vote, or reproduce.

My regular walk through my neighborhood takes me past the local Planned Parenthood. The protesters still make my blood boil but I’ve learned to keep my mouth shut and keep moving.

194 HappyWarrior  Jul 26, 2014 8:04:52am

Well given we’re approaching the centennial of the Ferdinand assassination. I really need to finally read the Guns of August.

195 wheat-dogghazi  Jul 26, 2014 8:08:04am

re: #194 HappyWarrior

Well given we’re approaching the centennial of the Ferdinand assassination. I really need to finally read the Guns of August.

Ah, jeez. Another history book to add to my summer reading list. I love reading Barbara Tuchman.

196 darthstar  Jul 26, 2014 8:08:40am

re: #188 Killgore Trout

Given the pattern we’ve seen over the past few decades this is something that has to happen every couple years. I’m not sure what it will take to break out of this rut but this is where we’re stuck for the foreseeable future.

It’s exactly how Hamas and Netanyahu want it to be. And don’t expect public outrage to be effective, as the media helps to deflect that all the time. On the way home yesterday, I heard Chris Hayes say, “Under President Obama, new Israeli settlements have doubled.” WTF? And Hayes is supposedly a liberal infotainement host.

197 PhillyPretzel  Jul 26, 2014 8:09:09am

re: #190 wheat-dogghazi

lol. Wasn’t Adm Yamamoto who said, “I fear we have wakened a sleeping tiger.”

198 darthstar  Jul 26, 2014 8:09:38am

re: #193 Killgore Trout

My regular walk through my neighborhood takes me past the local Planned Parenthood. The protesters still make my blood boil but I’ve learned to keep my mouth shut and keep moving.

That’s why god gave you a middle finger.

199 HappyWarrior  Jul 26, 2014 8:09:57am

re: #195 wheat-dogghazi

Ah, jeez. Another history book to add to my summer reading list. I love reading Barbara Tuchman.

I’ve been slacking in the reading department. Granted I had a great excuse but I’ve only read Homage to Catalonia so far this summer.

200 Dr Lizardo  Jul 26, 2014 8:10:28am

re: #194 HappyWarrior

Well given we’re approaching the centennial of the Ferdinand assassination. I really need to finally read the Guns of August.

Or you can watch this outstanding ten-part British Channel 4 TV series from 2003:

Youtube Video

Universally acclaimed as one of the finest documentary series ever made about the Great War, Channel 4’s The First World War is a powerful, original and truly comprehensive account of the conflict. It places the war in a truly global military context as never before, exploring many of the little known campaigns, battles and actions as well as the better known conflict on the Western Front. The series combines previously unseen footage from newly accessible archives in Central and Eastern Europe with exclusive film of many of the battlefields as they are today, studies of key participants and weaponry, and diary entries and letters home from soldiers, officers and commanders.

201 Decatur Deb  Jul 26, 2014 8:10:37am

re: #197 PhillyPretzel

lol. Wasn’t Adm Yamamoto who said, “I fear we have wakened a sleeping tiger.”

Steve Irwin.

202 HappyWarrior  Jul 26, 2014 8:10:51am

Hemingway fans and those knowledgable of him though, what’s the best book by him about Africa? It can be a novel, non-fiction. Looking at a birthday present for my brother who is going to climb Kilimanjaro this winter.

203 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Jul 26, 2014 8:15:54am

re: #191 Dark_Falcon

Just trying to put you towards stuff that I thought might interest you, Obdi.

I feel bad for not knowing more about WWI. It’s like Korea and Vietnam.

204 darthstar  Jul 26, 2014 8:15:59am

re: #202 HappyWarrior

Hemingway fans and those knowledgable of him though, what’s the best book by him about Africa? It can be a novel, non-fiction. Looking at a birthday present for my brother who is going to climb Kilimanjaro this winter.

A friend of mine climbed Kilimanjaro - said the climb is deceptively challenging. The terrain isn’t bad…no special gear needed…but once you get above 15,000 feet the air is thin and it makes for slow going.

205 sattv4u2  Jul 26, 2014 8:16:19am

re: #202 HappyWarrior

Hemingway fans and those knowledgable of him though, what’s the best book by him about Africa? It can be a novel, non-fiction. Looking at a birthday present for my brother who is going to climb Kilimanjaro this winter.

skip the book

get him thermal socks

mountain-forecast.com

206 darthstar  Jul 26, 2014 8:16:25am

re: #203 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

I feel bad for not knowing more about WWI. It’s like Korea and Vietnam.

Are they still fighting too?

207 wheat-dogghazi  Jul 26, 2014 8:16:56am

re: #199 HappyWarrior

I’ve been slacking in the reading department. Granted I had a great excuse but I’ve only read Homage to Catalonia so far this summer.

The KIndle version of The Guns of August is only $5. I bought it.

208 HappyWarrior  Jul 26, 2014 8:17:19am

re: #204 darthstar

A friend of mine climbed Kilimanjaro - said the climb is deceptively challenging. The terrain isn’t bad…no special gear needed…but once you get above 15,000 feet the air is thin and it makes for slow going.

Friend of mine was telling me that it’s apparently the “easiest” of the big peaks of each continent. Thanks for the advice though, I’ll pass it on.

209 HappyWarrior  Jul 26, 2014 8:17:57am

re: #207 wheat-dogghazi

The KIndle version of The Guns of August is only $5. I bought it.

Not a bad deal at all.

210 Decatur Deb  Jul 26, 2014 8:18:31am

re: #206 darthstar

Are they still fighting too?

Korea certainly, at ultra-low intensity. We and the ROK are technically still at war with DPRK, in a prolonged truce.

211 Killgore Trout  Jul 26, 2014 8:18:36am

re: #198 darthstar

That’s why god gave you a middle finger.

I’m trying, Ringo. I’m trying real hard to be the shepherd.

212 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Jul 26, 2014 8:19:58am

re: #210 Decatur Deb

Korea certainly, at ultra-low intensity. We and the ROK are technically still at war with DPRK, in a prolonged truce.

There are a surprising number of people who have no clue we were ever at war in Korea.

213 ObserverArt  Jul 26, 2014 8:20:12am

re: #175 Teukka

Methane is potent enough a GHG to be felt relatively rapidly. Also, if the clathrates on the continental shelves begin popping, they will have knock-on effects such as massive (and I mean massive) explosions out at sea and tsunamis caused by underwater landslides caused by clathrate deposits popping.

John Q. Public: What’s that?
Scientist: Climate change.
JQP: But our honorable TPGOPer told us it was all a scam.
S: It wasn’t. By the way if you see that politician, tell him us scientists said “told ya so”.
JQP: FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!

That will be the political scenario. Beyond that is anyone’s guess. But I suspect it will be very messy.

I wish I could believe your scenario, but if the climate does change to providing earth with such cataclysmic events the populace will be blaming all the politicians and scientists. They will completely ignore their own participation (or lack thereof). All of the warnings of the past 40 years will be forgotten because they never listened to them. The problems will be seen as new and they will look for scapegoats.

214 darthstar  Jul 26, 2014 8:20:19am

re: #211 Killgore Trout

I’m trying, Ringo. I’m trying real hard to be the shepherd.

Hey babe…ewe come around here often?

215 sattv4u2  Jul 26, 2014 8:20:42am

SO

#1 (and only) son is home for a few weeks before school starts back up

he’s having two of his buddies over for dinner tonight

I have 2 lbs of Chicken for the Marsala,,,, 2 lbs of pasta,,, 2 dozen meatballs,,,fresh green beans,, ,a nice salad,,a Cheesecake Factory cheesecake for dessert

2 large french loaves so they can make meatball subs later in the night

((hmmm,,, I’m gonna need more meatballs,,, ain’t I !!!))

216 sattv4u2  Jul 26, 2014 8:21:35am

re: #214 darthstar

{groan}

217 Eventual Carrion  Jul 26, 2014 8:22:00am

re: #185 darthstar

If we’d beaten Hitler in WWI, WWII wouldn’t have happened.

Shoulda had the Japanese bomb him like they did the Lusitania in the Gulf of Tonkin.

218 darthstar  Jul 26, 2014 8:23:21am

This helps.

“This is an unfortunate demonstration of why Brazil, an economic and cultural giant, remains a diplomatic dwarf,” Israeili Foreign Ministry spokesman Yigal Palmor said on Thursday, the Jerusalem Post reports. “The moral relativism behind this move makes Brazil an irrelevant diplomatic partner, one who creates problems rather than contributes to solutions.”

219 HappyWarrior  Jul 26, 2014 8:23:41am

re: #212 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

There are a surprising number of people who have no clue we were ever at war in Korea.

All the more amazing since the Korean War never technically ended. Just the cease fire but then again we could argue that’s part of why people don’t know it. No footage of parades like there was for WWII. I just remember being really happy when the memorial was built because I felt it was a great tribute to Korean War veterans like my grandpa. He didn’t really talk about his service a lot until the very end.

220 Decatur Deb  Jul 26, 2014 8:23:53am

re: #212 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

There are a surprising number of people who have no clue we were ever at war in Korea.

I pulled a familiarization MP patrol in the DMZ as a civilian, wearing a good suit, kevlar vest and helmet. War can get weird.

221 darthstar  Jul 26, 2014 8:24:12am

re: #217 Eventual Carrion

Shoulda had the Japanese bomb him like they did the Lusitania in the Gulf of Tonkin.

But getting Hitler to the Gulf of Tonkin proved to be too great a challenge, even for Captain America.

222 sattv4u2  Jul 26, 2014 8:24:48am

re: #220 Decatur Deb

I pulled a familiarization MP patrol in the DMZ as a civilian, wearing a good suit, kevlar vest and helmet. War can get weird.

and spats??

223 darthstar  Jul 26, 2014 8:25:05am

re: #212 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

There are a surprising number of people who have no clue we were ever at war in Korea.

War? But I love their bbq!

224 Teukka  Jul 26, 2014 8:25:42am

re: #213 ObserverArt

I wish I could believe your scenario, but if the climate does change to providing earth with such cataclysmic events the populace will be blaming all the politicians and scientists. They will completely ignore their own participation (or lack thereof). All of the warnings of the past 40 years will be forgotten because they never listened to them. The problems will be seen as new and they will look for scapegoats.

Only problem is that they will be on record denying. Which is not that easy to slither away from. Not to mention that the gravity of their mistake will be too heavy for them to muster the strength to slither.

225 Decatur Deb  Jul 26, 2014 8:27:39am

re: #213 ObserverArt

I wish I could believe your scenario, but if the climate does change to providing earth with such cataclysmic events the populace will be blaming all the politicians and scientists. They will completely ignore their own participation (or lack thereof). All of the warnings of the past 40 years will be forgotten because they never listened to them. The problems will be seen as new and they will look for scapegoats.

Having no trouble envisioning the day we have climate-change preppers, scrambling for what can be saved of technology and civilization. Thinking of fortified university-states.

226 wheat-dogghazi  Jul 26, 2014 8:28:31am

re: #202 HappyWarrior

Hemingway fans and those knowledgable of him though, what’s the best book by him about Africa? It can be a novel, non-fiction. Looking at a birthday present for my brother who is going to climb Kilimanjaro this winter.

Check this website ernesthemingwaycollection.com

He might like this one, though it’s not by Hemingway. amazon.com

227 Decatur Deb  Jul 26, 2014 8:29:16am

re: #222 sattv4u2

and spats??

Just about. I looked like a colonel—COL Sanders.

228 HappyWarrior  Jul 26, 2014 8:30:33am

re: #226 wheat-dogghazi

Check this website ernesthemingwaycollection.com

He might like this one, though it’s not by Hemingway. amazon.com

Sounds good. Thanks.

229 darthstar  Jul 26, 2014 8:31:54am

re: #213 ObserverArt

All of the warnings of the past 40 years will be forgotten because they never listened to them. The problems will be seen as new and they will look for scapegoats.

Really, Obama? You fucker.

230 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Jul 26, 2014 8:33:09am

re: #223 darthstar

War? But I love their bbq!

Or the people who ask Koreans if they’re from North or South Korea. I mean, it’s possible they’re North Korean, but fuck, it’s not likely.

+5 bonus ignorance points if the Korean is, in fact, from Hoboken.

231 darthstar  Jul 26, 2014 8:34:25am

Well, there’s hope for Iraq…Maliki is on his way out.

232 darthstar  Jul 26, 2014 8:35:17am

re: #230 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

Or the people who ask Koreans if they’re from North or South Korea. I mean, it’s possible they’re North Korean, but fuck, it’s not likely.

+5 bonus ignorance points if the Korean is, in fact, from Hoboken.

Hoboken…is that where they filmed M*A*S*H?

233 Teukka  Jul 26, 2014 8:35:19am

re: #229 darthstar

Really, Obama? You fucker.

Nah. When the gravity of their mistakes begins to set into them TPGOPers, it will be a horrific blow.
Some will driven to suicide, others will be found on the streets of an all American town, crawling on all fours naked, other make it to the insane asylum before they do that.
It will hit them hard, that’s the only certain thing.

234 wheat-dogghazi  Jul 26, 2014 8:35:25am

re: #230 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

Or the people who ask Koreans if they’re from North or South Korea. I mean, it’s possible they’re North Korean, but fuck, it’s not likely.

+5 bonus ignorance points if the Korean is, in fact, from Hoboken.

Like the “visiting representatives from India” who were in fact US government officials. littlegreenfootballs.com

235 HappyWarrior  Jul 26, 2014 8:37:08am

re: #234 wheat-dogghazi

Like the “visiting representatives from India” who were in fact US government officials. littlegreenfootballs.com

I was actually going to comment the same. i thought those two officials were very professional despite the guy’s bs.

236 darthstar  Jul 26, 2014 8:37:23am

re: #233 Teukka

Nah. When the gravity of their mistakes begins to set into them TPGOPers, it will be a horrific blow.
Some will driven to suicide, others will be found on the streets of an all American town, crawling on all fours naked, other make it to the insane asylum before they do that.
It will hit them hard, that’s the only certain thing.

Maybe - All I wish for them is the appropriate level of guilt for what they left their children.

237 darthstar  Jul 26, 2014 8:38:25am

re: #234 wheat-dogghazi

Like the “visiting representatives from India” who were in fact US government officials. littlegreenfootballs.com

That was fucking brilliant. I love the smile on the guy’s face as he listens in disbelief to that idiot congressman.

238 sattv4u2  Jul 26, 2014 8:38:34am

re: #230 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

Or the people who ask Koreans if they’re from North or South Korea. I mean, it’s possible they’re North Korean, but fuck, it’s not likely.

+5 bonus ignorance points if the Korean is, in fact, from Hoboken.

There’s actually been an uptick in defections since about 2000, mostly to China and South Korea (and where they go from there is anyones guess)

239 Teukka  Jul 26, 2014 8:40:32am

re: #236 darthstar

Maybe - All I wish for them is the appropriate level of guilt for what they left their children.

Well, the level of guilt they will feel will be on the order of magnitude of having caused the deaths of billions of people. That is, if we’re lucky and make it out as a species. If not, the level of guilt will be a magnitude worse.

N.B.: Sorry for the incoherence, Class II heatwave getting to me :(

240 Dark_Falcon  Jul 26, 2014 8:40:42am

re: #231 darthstar

Well, there’s hope for Iraq…Maliki is on his way out.

[Embedded content]

If they get rid of him, Iraq then needs a new PM who can avoid acting like a sectarian asshole.

241 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 26, 2014 8:45:42am

re: #174 Killgore Trout

Been dusting off my twitter after many years of neglect. I’m trying not to fall into the trap of only following folks I agree with 100% but I’m thinking of unfollowing PZ Meyers. I can handle his anti-Israeli stuff but he’s kind of an obnoxious atheist douche. I wish my fellow non-beleivers weren’t such assholes.

Hmm. Me too.

;)

242 wheat-dogghazi  Jul 26, 2014 8:46:43am

re: #238 sattv4u2

There’s actually been an uptick in defections since about 2000, mostly to China and South Korea (and where they go from there is anyones guess)

The ones who end up in China try to blend in with the Korean-speaking communities in the northeast, but without a Chinese national ID their prospects are very limited. If they’re caught, they’re shipped right back to NoKo. Most try to find a way into SoKo through an intermediate country, like Vietnam or Thailand. If they can get to a South Korean embassy or consulate, they can get travel papers.

The ones who end up in the South have a better time of it, but they all have to go through a significant adjustment period. They’re like time travelers dumped into a new world 50 years ahead of their own.

243 ObserverArt  Jul 26, 2014 8:47:42am

re: #224 Teukka

Only problem is that they will be on record denying. Which is not that easy to slither away from. Not to mention that the gravity of their mistake will be too heavy for them to muster the strength to slither.

True…for the politicians. But politicians are driven by what the public believes or not. I am speaking more about John Q. Public. They will forget they ignored it all, and they will turn on everyone they see as failing them.

So as you say, the political and public deniers will have no where to run, but neither will anyone else. It will just be blame, blame and more blame. It seems to be the way things work anymore, with everything.

244 sattv4u2  Jul 26, 2014 8:48:42am

re: #242 wheat-dogghazi

exactly

245 HappyWarrior  Jul 26, 2014 8:49:11am

re: #242 wheat-dogghazi

The ones who end up in China try to blend in with the Korean-speaking communities in the northeast, but without a Chinese national ID their prospects are very limited. If they’re caught, they’re shipped right back to NoKo. Most try to find a way into SoKo through an intermediate country, like Vietnam or Thailand. If they can get to a South Korean embassy or consulate, they can get travel papers.

The ones who end up in the South have a better time of it, but they all have to go through a significant adjustment period. They’re like time travelers dumped into a new world 50 years ahead of their own.

Cracked actually had an article on this fairly recently. It’s tough for those even going to South Korea because as you say huge culture shock. What’s disturbing about North Korea is unlike some other dictatorships, I really don’t see it getting better or any chance of democratization anytime soon. And then there’s that the Kim family arguably has gotten worse from each generation. Plus Kim Jung-Un is ridiculously young for a world leader.

246 darthstar  Jul 26, 2014 8:50:22am
247 darthstar  Jul 26, 2014 8:51:28am

re: #240 Dark_Falcon

If they get rid of him, Iraq then needs a new PM who can avoid acting like a sectarian asshole.

I think we should worry about the sectarian assholes in our own country right now…like Ted Cruz.

248 sattv4u2  Jul 26, 2014 8:51:59am

re: #245 HappyWarrior

Plus Kim Jung-Un is ridiculously young for a world leader.

31

But with the gluttonous partying and debauchery factor, he’s got the body of a 80 year old!!

249 wheat-dogghazi  Jul 26, 2014 8:52:43am

re: #245 HappyWarrior

Cracked actually had an article on this fairly recently. It’s tough for those even going to South Korea because as you say huge culture shock. What’s disturbing about North Korea is unlike some other dictatorships, I really don’t see it getting better or any chance of democratization anytime soon. And then there’s that the Kim family arguably has gotten worse from each generation. Plus Kim Jung-Un is ridiculously young for a world leader.

Here’s an article I found that might be of interest. atimes.com

This young woman has appeared at TED events. ted.com

250 HappyWarrior  Jul 26, 2014 8:53:14am

re: #248 sattv4u2


Plus Kim Jung-Un is ridiculously young for a world leader.

31

But with the partying and debauchery factor, he’s got the body of a 80 year old!!

Ah true.

251 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 26, 2014 8:53:46am

DNR Minister of Supplies //

252 HappyWarrior  Jul 26, 2014 8:53:49am

re: #249 wheat-dogghazi

Here’s an article I found that might be of interest. atimes.com

This young woman has appeared at TED events. ted.com

Fascinating to read stuff like this thanks.

253 Dark_Falcon  Jul 26, 2014 8:58:09am

re: #251 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

DNR Minister of Supplies //

[Embedded content]

Is that story credible? This is the NY Post we’re talking about.

254 wheat-dogghazi  Jul 26, 2014 9:00:06am

Have y’all seen this? It was made in China, and the NoKos are demanding the Chinese government remove the video from the Internet. Hasn’t happened yet.
dailymotion.com

255 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 26, 2014 9:01:13am

re: #253 Dark_Falcon

Is that story credible? This is the NY Post we’re talking about.

100%, trust me on this one.
NYP only repeats what others wrote.
More details at ukraineatwar.blogspot.nl

256 HappyWarrior  Jul 26, 2014 9:02:54am

re: #254 wheat-dogghazi

Have y’all seen this? It was made in China, and the NoKos are demanding the Chinese government remove the video from the Internet. Hasn’t happened yet.
dailymotion.com

Had not. Amusing.

257 sattv4u2  Jul 26, 2014 9:03:13am

re: #254 wheat-dogghazi

Have y’all seen this? It was made in China, and the NoKos are demanding the Chinese government remove the video from the Internet. Hasn’t happened yet.
dailymotion.com

Kim was so displeased that he promises to toss a few more rockets into the sea, hold his breath, stomp his feet, then have a sumptuous meal

258 Stanley Sea  Jul 26, 2014 9:04:07am

re: #174 Killgore Trout

Been dusting off my twitter after many years of neglect. I’m trying not to fall into the trap of only following folks I agree with 100% but I’m thinking of unfollowing PZ Meyers. I can handle his anti-Israeli stuff but he’s kind of an obnoxious atheist douche. I wish my fellow non-beleivers weren’t such assholes.

Yeah, got your tweet supporting racist Anthony Cumia.

259 The War TARDIS  Jul 26, 2014 9:04:34am

What the hell is Israel thinking?

Israel calls Brazil a ‘diplomatic dwarf’ - and then brings up World Cup humiliation

This just makes Israel look petty.

260 Dark_Falcon  Jul 26, 2014 9:06:27am

re: #254 wheat-dogghazi

Have y’all seen this? It was made in China, and the NoKos are demanding the Chinese government remove the video from the Internet. Hasn’t happened yet.
dailymotion.com

The Chinese censors are too busy laughing their asses off to pull it. China is also not too found of Kim Jong Un these days and refusing to yank the video is a way the Chinese government can flip Lil’ Kim the bird.

261 Rightwingconspirator  Jul 26, 2014 9:07:02am

It’s a fine Saturday morning here is SoCal. Watching Al Jazeera who scored an interview with the (the? or “a” rebel leader?) of the separatists.

What a bastard. Kinda hoping NSA gets this guys location and sends it along to the Ukrainians. Heh does modern video gear embed GPS metadata?

262 Joanne  Jul 26, 2014 9:07:15am

re: #254 wheat-dogghazi

Have y’all seen this? It was made in China, and the NoKos are demanding the Chinese government remove the video from the Internet. Hasn’t happened yet.
dailymotion.com

The Chinese are trolling North Korea. Sorry, but that kinda cracks me up. No doubt because of how NK reacted to that Seth Green (?? One of the Seth’s, I get them confused) film.

263 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 26, 2014 9:08:09am

re: #259 The War TARDIS

A statement about disproportionality may be true or false (or subjective), I won’t even attempt to judge it coz my hands are full with another topic now, but Israel’s reaction is certainly not how you win friends and allies,

264 Killgore Trout  Jul 26, 2014 9:08:54am

re: #258 Stanley Sea

Yeah, got your tweet supporting racist Anthony Cumia.

I’m going to subscribe to his podcast too. I’m a fundamentalist when it comes to free speech issues.

“Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible.”

― Frank Zappa

265 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 26, 2014 9:09:15am

re: #261 Rightwingconspirator

What leader? Linky?

266 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Jul 26, 2014 9:09:51am

re: #258 Stanley Sea

Yeah, got your tweet supporting racist Anthony Cumia.

Killgore’s really looking forwards to what Cumia, who is an astonishing shit head and racist, does next.

According to Killgore.

267 wheat-dogghazi  Jul 26, 2014 9:10:20am

re: #262 Joanne

Seth Rogen.
re: #260 Dark_Falcon

The Chinese censors are too busy laughing their asses off to pull it. China is also not too found of Kim Jong Un these days and refusing to yank the video is a way the Chinese government can flip Lil’ Kim the bird.

Especially as China’s new president, Xi Jinping, made a point of visiting South Korea and not the North for his first Korean excursion in office.

268 Dark_Falcon  Jul 26, 2014 9:10:57am

re: #255 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

100%, trust me on this one.
NYP only repeats what others wrote.
More details at ukraineatwar.blogspot.nl

My God but that’s sick. Stealing money I understand; I don’t approve and I wouldn’t do it myself, but I can understand how people from a country with a currency subjected at times in the recent past to massive inflation would want to get their hands on hard currency such as Euros and Pounds Sterling. but using a dead woman’s makeup like that and then gloating about it strikes me as inhuman.

269 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 26, 2014 9:11:56am

re: #268 Dark_Falcon

That reminds me of how certain locals behaved near certain death camps…

270 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Jul 26, 2014 9:13:24am

re: #264 Killgore Trout

I’m going to subscribe to his podcast too. I’m a fundamentalist when it comes to free speech issues.

“Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible.”

― Frank Zappa

This is such a stupid, bullshit argument it’s amazing that you can manage to actually hold it in your head.

Supporting free speech means supporting the right of people to speak freely without government interference. It does not mean that there is merit or any goodness in listening to racist assholes talk about how black people are animals, or that them saying those things improves society or helps in any way. Their right to do it, and preserving that right, improves society. Them actually spreading that sort of racial division and hatred actually harms society, but it’s worthwhile to let them do it because preserving the right to free speech is more important than censoring obnoxious, unfunny, racist douchebags.

This is, like, completely fucking obvious common sense, and yet you manage to misapprehend it so fucking badly. This is the kind of incredibly shallow thinking that made you look like such a goddamn idiot when you listened to an entire Christopher Hitchens speech on government censorship, given in Canada in response to government censorship, and concluded the speech wasn’t about government censorship.

271 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Jul 26, 2014 9:14:56am

re: #268 Dark_Falcon

What I don’t get is documenting their ghoulishness. I can imagine, if I were desperate, stealing from the dead. They’re dead. I could make my case for it to myself. But I would not then take a goddamn selfie.

272 Rightwingconspirator  Jul 26, 2014 9:16:36am

re: #265 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

Working on it, Sorry was not Al Jaz but a report on KCET via BBC Newsnight. Scrolling back the DVR now. Okay… Gabriel Gatehouse with rebel leader Alexander Borodai. (Guessing the spelling)

I swear Al Jaz patterned itself after BBC in the look and feel of the show.

Anyway he claims photos of the BUK missile truck were faked. That threats from OSCE kept them from gathering the bodies.

blah blah bull.

BBC Youtube, embed fail so here is a link.
Youtube Video

273 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 26, 2014 9:18:54am

I would say that Zappa’s quote refers more to the “freethinkers” (in a very general sense) like Hitchens, who wrote quite a lot of BS and objectionable stuff in his life (as all sides can agree) but was, nevertheless, an important intellectual who would push the limits of discourse and “consensus”. I’m pretty sure Zappa did not mean that listening to David Duke can make you smarter.

274 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 26, 2014 9:21:19am

re: #272 Rightwingconspirator

Yes, I would be glad to see him… in a non-threatening state ;)
Better yet, I hope he is captured by the Ukrainians. But that’s unlikely, since he’ll just escape back to Russia like the rat he is.

275 Joanne  Jul 26, 2014 9:21:22am

re: #267 wheat-dogghazi

Yes, Seth Rogan! I could picture him but I couldn’t remember his name. Thanks! (I’m on my iPhone, otherwise I’d have used Teh Googles.)

276 darthstar  Jul 26, 2014 9:23:24am

Oops.

277 darthstar  Jul 26, 2014 9:24:08am
278 HappyWarrior  Jul 26, 2014 9:24:17am

re: #276 darthstar

Oops.

[Embedded content]

But that’s unpossible, all the voter fraud comes from the Democrat Party./

279 Joanne  Jul 26, 2014 9:25:00am

re: #268 Dark_Falcon

Not just sick but (on a stupid level) it’s remarkably unsanitary. Gross (on all levels).

280 HappyWarrior  Jul 26, 2014 9:25:57am

re: #277 darthstar

[Embedded content]

Oh Mitt.

281 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 26, 2014 9:27:25am

re: #277 darthstar


:P

282 Dark_Falcon  Jul 26, 2014 9:28:10am

re: #277 darthstar

[Embedded content]

Really, I have to ask: So what? Mitt Romney lost the 2012 election and is not running in 2016. Why does it matter if he got two women mixed up in 2012?

283 Killgore Trout  Jul 26, 2014 9:28:56am

re: #273 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

I would say that Zappa’s quote refers more to the “freethinkers” (in a very general sense) like Hitchens, who wrote quite a lot of BS and objectionable stuff in his life (as all sides can agree) but was, nevertheless, an important intellectual who would push the limits of discourse and “consensus”. I’m pretty sure Zappa did not mean that listening to David Duke can make you smarter.

No but Zappa would certainly have been a target today accused of racism, sexism, islamophobia and all sorts of bigotry and political incorrectness. There would certainly be efforts to have his shows cancelled. He was very much against censorship but in those days the religious right was the driving force behind efforts to stifle free speech. I very much doubt he would have been friendly to progressive efforts, he would be a target today.

284 HappyWarrior  Jul 26, 2014 9:29:21am

re: #282 Dark_Falcon

Really, I have to ask: So what? Mitt Romney lost the 2012 election and is not running in 2016. Why does it matter if he got two women mixed up in 2012?

Actually I thought I heard there were rumblings that he may run again.

285 Killgore Trout  Jul 26, 2014 9:30:11am

Also, as much as I love Zappa I’m pretty sure he’d be a Ron Paul supporter if he were around today. It is what it is.

286 Targetpractice  Jul 26, 2014 9:30:31am

re: #282 Dark_Falcon

Really, I have to ask: So what? Mitt Romney lost the 2012 election and is not running in 2016. Why does it matter if he got two women mixed up in 2012?

Technically, nobody is running yet as nobody has officially announced candidacy. But the man has been turning up again and again in theoretical candidate polls, so discussing stupid shit he’s done is as relevant as other theoretical candidates.

287 b_sharp  Jul 26, 2014 9:30:46am

re: #282 Dark_Falcon

Really, I have to ask: So what? Mitt Romney lost the 2012 election and is not running in 2016. Why does it matter if he got two women mixed up in 2012?

It plays into the idea he doesn’t care about people enough to learn their names, or even more specifically women or blacks.

I personally think he’s an uncaring out of touch high school bully who doesn’t give a shit about anybody who doesn’t fit into his world rather than a misogynist or racist.

288 Joanne  Jul 26, 2014 9:30:59am
289 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Jul 26, 2014 9:32:56am

re: #283 Killgore Trout

No but Zappa would certainly have been a target today accused of racism, sexism, islamophobia and all sorts of bigotry and political incorrectness.

Why, what did he say that was racist, sexist, or Islamaphobic? Or is this using Killgore’s Convenient Clairvoyance?

He was very much against censorship but in those days the religious right was the driving force behind efforts to stifle free speech. I very much doubt he would have been friendly to progressive efforts, he would be a target today.

He was against government censorship. Like Hitchens.

Again: Playing dumb has the effect of making you look dumb.

290 darthstar  Jul 26, 2014 9:35:04am

re: #282 Dark_Falcon

Really, I have to ask: So what? Mitt Romney lost the 2012 election and is not running in 2016. Why does it matter if he got two women mixed up in 2012?

I thought it was recent…turns out it was in 2012…but he’ll forever be second fiddle to Sarah Palin anyway, so it doesn’t hurt to give him a little attention.

291 Dark_Falcon  Jul 26, 2014 9:35:56am

re: #284 HappyWarrior

Actually I thought I heard there were rumblings that he may run again.

He’s squashed every such rumble with a very firm ‘no’. My guess is that he was glad to do so, after all the FlaK he got hit with in 2012 (some of which he had earned).

292 darthstar  Jul 26, 2014 9:36:31am
293 HappyWarrior  Jul 26, 2014 9:37:46am

re: #286 Targetpractice

Technically, nobody is running yet as nobody has officially announced candidacy. But the man has been turning up again and again in theoretical candidate polls, so discussing stupid shit he’s done is as relevant as other theoretical candidates.

Hasn’t he also been playing kingmaker in primaries too? Could have swore that he did some fundraising for Cmostock here in my district since Mitt’s the establishments guy and the establishment we all know would never want to nominate Bob Marshall for high office since they’re trying to “rebrand”. So, yeah I do think Mitt’s action is relevant and BSharp makes another good point about it. And as I said, he has not completely ruled out a run in 2016.

294 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 26, 2014 9:37:49am

re: #283 Killgore Trout

Frankly, I have no idea about Zappa’s political, religious, social views. Also, he was from a different era. The limits of what is acceptable change with time and people should be judged in the context of their time and society. Lincoln would be judged as an extreme racist today. So?

295 HappyWarrior  Jul 26, 2014 9:38:26am

re: #291 Dark_Falcon

He’s squashed every such rumble with a very firm ‘no’. My guess is that he was glad to do so, after all the FlaK he got hit with in 2012 (some of which he had earned).

I swear I thought I heard something fairly recently but then again I was out of country for nearly a month too so a bit out of the loop.

296 Decatur Deb  Jul 26, 2014 9:38:45am

re: #276 darthstar

Oops.
OLYMPIA - Republican state Rep. Mike Hope said Thursday he intends to resign from office after it was revealed he’s been registered to vote in two…

The True-the-Vote morons have been using multiple registrations and precincts that have excessive proportions of registrations as proof of fraud. Actually, you have no obligation to cancel your registration when you re-register after a move. All that more registrations than adults proves is that the agency responsible is slow and sloppy about purging their rolls.

Now if yon GOP doof has been voting both registrations, that’s a crime. If he hasn’t, it’s just bad karma.

297 Killgore Trout  Jul 26, 2014 9:39:30am

re: #294 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

Frankly, I have no idea about Zappa’s political, religious, social views. Also, he was from a different era. The limits of what is acceptable change with time and people should be judged in the context of their time and society. Lincoln would be judged as an extreme racist today. So?

Surely. Twain too.

298 Decatur Deb  Jul 26, 2014 9:39:34am

re: #291 Dark_Falcon

He’s squashed every such rumble with a very firm ‘no’. My guess is that he was glad to do so, after all the FlaK he got hit with in 2012 (some of which he had earned).

He’s waiting to get the word from Rafalca. That’s the brains of the operation.

299 HappyWarrior  Jul 26, 2014 9:39:37am

re: #292 darthstar

[Embedded content]

Mitt had four as governor. That’s actually the only time Mitt’s been elected ever though. You look at successful politicians and most of them just flat out win wherever they run.

300 HappyWarrior  Jul 26, 2014 9:40:21am

re: #298 Decatur Deb

He’s waiting to get the word from Rafalca. That’s the brains of the operation.

One hoof stomp for yes, two hoof stomps for no, and three for accusing the president of sympathizing with the Benghazi murderers.

301 darthstar  Jul 26, 2014 9:40:28am

It’s like a scene from Gattaca.

302 wrenchwench  Jul 26, 2014 9:42:35am

re: #285 Killgore Trout

Also, as much as I love Zappa I’m pretty sure he’d be a Ron Paul supporter if he were around today. It is what it is.

It was what it was. He isn’t now, and any supposition on what he would be cannot constitute an ‘is’.

303 darthstar  Jul 26, 2014 9:43:03am

re: #299 HappyWarrior

Mitt had four as governor. That’s actually the only time Mitt’s been elected ever though. You look at successful politicians and most of them just flat out win wherever they run.

Yep…Sarah served two…half of one of those she spent campaigning with John McCain, and the other year she spent on Fox News working out a contract. The first half of her first year in office she spent settling old scores with enemies real and imagined.

304 HappyWarrior  Jul 26, 2014 9:43:32am

re: #301 darthstar

It’s like a scene from Gattaca.

[Embedded content]

What that their party is a sausage fest? Actually the GOP’s biggest problem is it’s impossible for their politicians to be inclusive. They’ll tout minority officials like Rubio, Cruz, or Jindal who will be completely homophobic and arguably more so than the old guard like Romney, McCain, etc.

305 Targetpractice  Jul 26, 2014 9:43:52am

re: #301 darthstar

It’s like a scene from Gattaca.

[Embedded content]

“Who let those Asian kids into the pic?! Get them out immediately!!!”

//

306 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 26, 2014 9:44:28am

re: #294 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

Although sometimes it helps to compare, too. E.g. Killgore is prolly more liberal than 90% of Russian citizens.

307 darthstar  Jul 26, 2014 9:44:39am
308 HappyWarrior  Jul 26, 2014 9:45:38am

re: #303 darthstar

Yep…Sarah served two…half of one of those she spent campaigning with John McCain, and the other year she spent on Fox News working out a contract. The first half of her first year in office she spent settling old scores with enemies real and imagined.

Remember when I think one of Meg Whitman or Carly Fiorina tried to claim that being governor of Alaska for those two and half years made her more experienced than Joe Biden despite the fact that Biden had over ten times as much experience in the Senate by then including chairing two very important committees- foreign affairs and judiciary. It is amazing though to think that Mitt’s probably spent more time running for office than ever actually being in office.

309 Decatur Deb  Jul 26, 2014 9:47:21am

re: #276 darthstar

Oops.

[Embedded content]

Ah. His problem isn’t voter fraud, it’s effectively moving out of the state he represents.

310 Skip Intro  Jul 26, 2014 9:47:34am

re: #298 Decatur Deb

He’s waiting to get the word from Rafalca. That’s the brains of the operation.

I think it all depends on how badly Queen Ann wants to be FLOTUS and if Tagg would like to run in a decade or so from now.

311 darthstar  Jul 26, 2014 9:47:47am

re: #309 Decatur Deb

Ah. His problem isn’t voter fraud, it’s effectively moving out of the state he represents.

Exactly.

312 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Jul 26, 2014 9:47:56am

re: #297 Killgore Trout

Surely. Twain too.

But if Twain grew up in today’s society, he wouldn’t be the Twain that he was. Given that he was progressive for his time, he’d probably be progressive for our time.

This is a thing called ‘logic’.

313 Dr Lizardo  Jul 26, 2014 9:48:24am

re: #271 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

What I don’t get is documenting their ghoulishness. I can imagine, if I were desperate, stealing from the dead. They’re dead. I could make my case for it to myself. But I would not then take a goddamn selfie.

Precisely. I could see some poor schmuck who has absolutely not a damned thing in this world looking into a dead person’s wallet and seeing, let’s say, $2,500 and saying, “Holy shit!” and after making sure no one’s around, tucking that into his pocket.

But gloating about it? And then posting it for all the world to see? That’s a special kind of vileness.

Yeesh.

314 darthstar  Jul 26, 2014 9:49:54am

re: #310 Skip Intro

I think it all depends on how badly Queen Ann wants to be FLOTUS and if Tagg would like to run in a decade or so from now.

That woman scares the fuck out of me…hell, she probably scares the fuck out of Putin…and he’s not afraid of anyone. She’s mean.

315 HappyWarrior  Jul 26, 2014 9:50:33am

re: #310 Skip Intro

I think it all depends on how badly Queen Ann wants to be FLOTUS and if Tagg would like to run in a decade or so from now.

If they really want to help Tagg’s political career (lol since the guy is even less likable than dear old Dad), they’d just accept the fact that Mitt and Ann will never be POTUS and FLOTUS. Mitt’s not a winner politically. As I pointed out, one political win and he ran away from a lot of what that guy who was elected Massachusetts’ governor in 2002 stood for so he could get the nomination two years ago.

316 Decatur Deb  Jul 26, 2014 9:50:50am

re: #301 darthstar

It’s like a scene from Gattaca.

[Embedded content]

Why aren’t those kids at the border, turning back the Latin Peril?

317 Decatur Deb  Jul 26, 2014 9:53:14am

re: #315 HappyWarrior

If they really want to help Tagg’s political career (lol since the guy is even less likable than dear old Dad), they’d just accept the fact that Mitt and Ann will never be POTUS and FLOTUS. Mitt’s not a winner politically. As I pointed out, one political win and he ran away from a lot of what that guy who was elected Massachusetts’ governor in 2002 stood for so he could get the nomination two years ago.

Tagg has a lock on the Omega Theta Pi vote.

318 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 26, 2014 9:53:17am

re: #306 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

(Or than ~40% of Americans for that matter).

319 darthstar  Jul 26, 2014 9:53:20am

And then we ask for another two hours. Then thirty minutes…then another thirty minutes and eventually, we get a whole day…then a week…then a year…then we start over.

320 Decatur Deb  Jul 26, 2014 9:54:29am

re: #319 darthstar

[Embedded content]

And then we ask for another two hours. Then thirty minutes…then another thirty minutes and eventually, we get a whole day…then a week…then a year…then we start over.

Nope. That’s everlasting peace under Zeno’s Truce.

321 HappyWarrior  Jul 26, 2014 9:55:43am

re: #317 Decatur Deb

Tagg has a lock on the Omega Theta Pi vote.

Given that his father was president of his university’s chapter, that’s hardly hard to do.

322 darthstar  Jul 26, 2014 10:03:21am

Line from the article I’m referencing:

Israel has never defined its own borders, since doing so would necessarily place limits on them.

It’s an interesting argument - over the phrase - and one that likely won’t get addressed any time soon.

However, many people of goodwill and decent values may well be taken in by the surface simplicity of the words, “Israel’s right to exist,” and believe that they constitute a reasonable demand. And if the “right to exist” is reasonable, then refusing to accept it must represent perversity, rather than Palestinians’ deeply felt need to cling to their self-respect and dignity as full-fledged human beings. That this need is deeply felt is evidenced by polls showing that the percentage of the Palestinian population that approves of Hamas’s refusal to bow to this demand substantially exceeds the percentage that voted for Hamas in January 2006.

Those who recognize the critical importance of Israeli-Palestinian peace and truly seek a decent future for both peoples must recognize that the demand that Hamas recognize “Israel’s right to exist” is unreasonable, immoral, and impossible to meet. Then, they must insist that this roadblock to peace be removed, the economic siege of the Palestinian territories be lifted, and the pursuit of peace with some measure of justice be resumed with the urgency it deserves.

323 darthstar  Jul 26, 2014 10:04:54am
324 Decatur Deb  Jul 26, 2014 10:07:33am

re: #322 darthstar

[Embedded content]

Line from the article I’m referencing:

It’s an interesting argument - over the phrase - and one that likely won’t get addressed any time soon.

That whole argument hangs on the ‘Monolithic Israel’, a fabulous beast related to the ‘Monolithic Palestinian’ and the ‘Monolithic Catholic’.

325 darthstar  Jul 26, 2014 10:09:40am
326 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 26, 2014 10:10:16am

Someone with karma -203 goes ‘round, dinging CL.

327 darthstar  Jul 26, 2014 10:11:28am

re: #326 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

Someone with karma -203 goes ‘round, dinging CL.

Ignore the dingers.

328 Decatur Deb  Jul 26, 2014 10:11:36am

re: #325 darthstar

[Embedded content]

damn.

329 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 26, 2014 10:12:33am

re: #327 darthstar

Ignore the dingers.

Dingers gonna ding /

330 Killgore Trout  Jul 26, 2014 10:14:25am

Parisian peace protesters are at it again

Hundreds ignore ban in Paris to protest Israeli offensive in Gaza

Pro-Palestinian protesters clashed with police in central Paris on Saturday when hundreds of marchers defied a ban by French authorities to rally against Israel’s offensive in the Gaza Strip.

French interior minister Bernard Cazeneuve warned organisers in a television address that they would be held responsible for any clashes and could be prosecuted for ignoring a ban that was confirmed by the country’s top administrative court.

TV footage showed a minority of demonstrators wearing balaclavas and traditional Arab keffiyeh headdresses throwing projectiles at riot officers. Paris police said they had made 40 arrests.

331 Decatur Deb  Jul 26, 2014 10:14:28am

re: #329 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

Dingers gonna ding /

Ding an Sick.

332 darthstar  Jul 26, 2014 10:15:03am
333 b_sharp  Jul 26, 2014 10:17:43am

re: #324 Decatur Deb

That whole argument hangs on the ‘Monolithic Israel’, a fabulous beast related to the ‘Monolithic Palestinian’ and the ‘Monolithic Catholic’.

Israel is a country, not a belief system.

Years ago, in the ’60s, my grandfather lamented that Austria isn’t as big as it once was because Germany had swallowed some of it a century ago. My grandfather was born in Canada but his father was born in Austria in an area that is now Germany. He was upset that Austria doesn’t have the size and power it once did.

Borders that aren’t fluid is a recent state, brought about by the LoN and the UN. Humans seem to always want the greener grass their neighbour owns and the glory their family (read country) once held. Patriotism in its rawest sense is an expression of an eternal grudge match.

334 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 26, 2014 10:17:51am

Speaking of ding…

Youtube Video

335 Charles Johnson  Jul 26, 2014 10:18:36am

re: #264 Killgore Trout

I’m going to subscribe to his podcast too. I’m a fundamentalist when it comes to free speech issues.

Really? Is that a recent development? Because when you went to Hot Air and posted racist comments to try to shame the moderators into deleting the real racist comments, it sure seemed at that point that you weren’t really a “fundamentalist” on free speech. Seemed like the opposite.

And I’m still getting blamed for your stunt, too.

336 b_sharp  Jul 26, 2014 10:18:43am

re: #329 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

Dingers gonna ding /

Sorry about dinging you, but I couldn’t help myself.

337 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 26, 2014 10:19:40am

Heh.

338 darthstar  Jul 26, 2014 10:20:25am

re: #335 Charles Johnson

They have moderators at Hot Air? I mean, people actually read that site for a living?

339 Decatur Deb  Jul 26, 2014 10:20:49am

re: #333 b_sharp

Israel is a country, not a belief system.

It’s also a diverse electorate (part of it Arab or Christian) that can’t agree what Israel should be, only that it should be.

340 darthstar  Jul 26, 2014 10:21:34am
341 b_sharp  Jul 26, 2014 10:23:14am

re: #340 darthstar

[Embedded content]

I get the feeling he isn’t enjoying the contact.

342 Killgore Trout  Jul 26, 2014 10:23:19am

re: #335 Charles Johnson

Really? Is that a recent development? Because when you went to Hot Air and posted racist comments to try to shame the moderators into deleting the real racist comments, it sure seemed at that point that you weren’t really a “fundamentalist” on free speech. Seemed like the opposite.

And I’m still getting blamed for your stunt, too.

I’ve moderated my views a lot since then, looking back I’m very embarrassed by that stunt but it did help to teach me that trying to enforce some sort of ideological purity just made me act like a douchebag. It’s not who I want to be.
But in my defense I wasn’t pushig to get someone fired or punished for saying something I disagreed with, regardless it was a stupid and embarrassing thing to do. I have tried to learn from the experience.

343 Rightwingconspirator  Jul 26, 2014 10:23:30am

Oh crap. trovi . com has somehow hijacked my browsers. Already did a regedit search, removed and no joy. Oh boy.

344 sattv4u2  Jul 26, 2014 10:24:19am

re: #338 darthstar

Welp

looks as if your Giants are making a push and my Red Sox have thrown in the towel!!

sanfrancisco.giants.mlb.com

345 Rightwingconspirator  Jul 26, 2014 10:24:54am

re: #326 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

Someone with karma -203 goes ‘round, dinging CL.

Oh? Offset coming up

346 nsmith25  Jul 26, 2014 10:25:01am

re: #329 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

Dingers gonna ding /

“We still Dinging”

/couldn’t help it.

347 Charles Johnson  Jul 26, 2014 10:26:03am

re: #342 Killgore Trout

By “moderated your views,” you mean defending someone who spews racism and homophobia, like Anthony Cumia?

That doesn’t seem like “moderating” to me. Again, it seems like the opposite. You’re now defending people who are openly racist. Yeah, that’s a change, all right.

348 b_sharp  Jul 26, 2014 10:26:22am

re: #343 Rightwingconspirator

Oh crap. trovi . com has somehow hijacked my browsers. Already did a regedit search, removed and no joy. Oh boy.

Malwarebytes Anti-malware, followed by CCLeaner, then ADWCleaner and last Avast Pro trial and have it remove all low rated browser add-ons

349 Killgore Trout  Jul 26, 2014 10:26:29am

re: #342 Killgore Trout

I’ve moderated my views a lot since then, looking back I’m very embarrassed by that stunt but it did help to teach me that trying to enforce some sort of ideological purity just made me act like a douchebag. It’s not who I want to be.
But in my defense I wasn’t pushig to get someone fired or punished for saying something I disagreed with, regardless it was a stupid and embarrassing thing to do. I have tried to learn from the experience.

For folks who like to dig through my past comments: Somehwere on my twitter timeline I did chastise Ant Cumia for saying something shittty and racist. Like I said, I’ve moderated since then and much less concerned with forcing my sensibilities on others.

350 darthstar  Jul 26, 2014 10:26:53am

re: #344 sattv4u2

1-9 with a 4.72 ERA…I hope he can swing a bat. We play real baseball in the National League.

351 Targetpractice  Jul 26, 2014 10:27:05am

re: #340 darthstar

[Embedded content]

Paul Ryan, a guy who has never known true poverty thinking he can solve it in others by giving them a swifter kick in the ass.

352 darthstar  Jul 26, 2014 10:28:45am

re: #348 b_sharp

Malwarebytes Anti-malware, followed by CCLeaner, then ADWCleaner and last Avast Pro trial and have it remove all low rated browser add-ons

And then get yourself a Mac. Or put Ubuntu on your machine beside Windows and boot to that…let it have about 1/4 of your hard drive - you’ll never use the space anyway, and you’ll still have 3/4 of it under Windows with all the malware you can enjoy.

353 darthstar  Jul 26, 2014 10:29:30am

re: #351 Targetpractice

Paul Ryan, a guy who has never known true poverty thinking he can solve it in others by giving them a swifter kick in the ass.

Paul Ryan, who got where he is through government assistance, is against government assistance.

354 sattv4u2  Jul 26, 2014 10:29:50am

re: #350 darthstar

1-9 with a 4.72 ERA…I hope he can swing a bat. We play real baseball in the National League.

Having been with the Padres when Bochy was there, i’m sure he remembers how!

The record this year is a little deceiving. The Sox haven’t been giving any of their pitchers much run support. He took a lot of those games into the 6th-7th inning having given up only 2-3 runs, but the Sox didn’t produce more than 1-2 for him

355 Rightwingconspirator  Jul 26, 2014 10:31:06am

re: #348 b_sharp

Malwarebytes Anti-malware, followed by CCLeaner, then ADWCleaner and last Avast Pro trial and have it remove all low rated browser add-ons

Well beat a re formatting…

BBL and thanks.

356 Targetpractice  Jul 26, 2014 10:31:14am

re: #353 darthstar

Paul Ryan, who got where he is through government assistance, is against government assistance.

Ayep, the guy who’s already climbed up the ladder now wants to cut the rungs out for everybody trying to follow him. “If they want up here, they’ll build their own ladder! And if they can’t, then they just don’t want it badly enough!”

357 Charles Johnson  Jul 26, 2014 10:31:15am

re: #342 Killgore Trout

I’ve moderated my views a lot since then, looking back I’m very embarrassed by that stunt…

You’re “embarrassed,” and I’ve been smeared with it for years by countless people.

Nice to know you’re embarrassed, anyway.

358 Randall Gross  Jul 26, 2014 10:32:18am

re: #285 Killgore Trout

That’s one of the most flatly ridiculous things I’ve ever seen you post. Zappa was politically active, well read, and highly intelligent. He would have seen the hate groups and fascists behind Ron Paul as easily as we do. He was also an atheist and very anti fundamentalist and things that the religious right was for — like limiting abortion - and fundamentalists are some of Ron Paul’s biggest fans. He was slightly libertarian, not wild west paleo libertarian. So don’t fall for that posthumous draft of Zappa thing that the libertards are trying to pull, he wouldn’t have had much to do with the modern libertarian movement.

sheesh.

359 Killgore Trout  Jul 26, 2014 10:32:21am

re: #347 Charles Johnson

By “moderated your views,” you mean defending someone who spews racism and homophobia, like Anthony Cumia?

That doesn’t seem like “moderating” to me. Again, it seems like the opposite. You’re now defending people who are openly racist. Yeah, that’s a change, all right.

I’ve reminded myself how important it is to tolerate offensive speech. Folks like Zappa, Lenny Bruce, George Carlin, Larry Flint, Howard Stern may be reprehensible people who say shocking things but I’ve reminded myself how important their social commentary can be.
The progressive efforts to target people they disagree with have gone way too far for me, if I’m going to err I’d prefer to err on the side of free speech and tolerance for opposing views.

360 Killgore Trout  Jul 26, 2014 10:33:46am

re: #357 Charles Johnson

You’re “embarrassed,” and I’ve been smeared with it for years by countless people.

Nice to know you’re embarrassed, anyway.

I’m pretty sure I told you privately of my embarrassment shortly after the incident and have said so publicly here several times.

361 Charles Johnson  Jul 26, 2014 10:34:10am

re: #359 Killgore Trout

But you’re going quite a bit beyond “tolerating” Cumia, aren’t you? You’re defending him and subscribing to his podcast. That’s not “tolerating,” it’s supporting.

362 Randall Gross  Jul 26, 2014 10:34:59am

re: #359 Killgore Trout

You are confusing shocking satirical use of offensive speech to make a point with actual plain old offensive speech meant to offend. Tolerating one is not the same as tolerating the other. Criticizing one is not the same as the other.

363 Backwoods_Sleuth  Jul 26, 2014 10:35:27am

re: #359 Killgore Trout

I’ve reminded myself how important it is to tolerate offensive speech. Folks like Zappa, Lenny Bruce, George Carlin, Larry Flint, Howard Stern may be reprehensible people who say shocking things but I’ve reminded myself how important their social commentary can be.
The progressive efforts to target people they disagree with have gone way too far for me, if I’m going to err I’d prefer to err on the side of free speech and tolerance for opposing views.

GOOD FREAKIN GRIEF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

364 b_sharp  Jul 26, 2014 10:36:08am

re: #343 Rightwingconspirator

Oh crap. trovi . com has somehow hijacked my browsers. Already did a regedit search, removed and no joy. Oh boy.

Here’s my sequence.

Enable administrator account
‘net user administrator /active:yes’

Download and installl ‘Wget’ on a separate system if Windows winsock has problems connecting to the web.
Download from:
downloads.sourceforge.net

Run ‘Farbar Recovery Scan Tool’ in scan mode
Download from:
32bit - bleepingcomputer.com
64 bit - bleepingcomputer.com

Run Revo Uninstaller
Download through browser on other system.
revouninstaller.com

Run ‘Malwarebytes Anti-Malware’
Download from:
downloads.malwarebytes.org

Run ESET
Website: eset.com
Specific settings
Turn off the real time scanner of any existing antivirus program while performing the online scan
Tick the box next to YES, I accept the Terms of Use.
Click Start
When asked, allow the activex control to install
Click Start
Make sure that the option Remove found threats is unticked
Click on Advanced Settings and ensure these options are ticked:
Scan for potentially unwanted applications
Scan for potentially unsafe applications
Enable Anti-Stealth Technology
Click Scan
Wait for the scan to finish
If any threats were found, click the ‘List of found threats’ , then click Export to text file….
Save it to your desktop, then please copy and paste that log as a reply to this topic.

Delete junk with adwCleaner
Download from:
bleepingcomputer.com

Delete junk with JRT
Download from:
bleepingcomputer.com
Specific settings:
Shut down your protection software now to avoid potential conflicts.
Run the tool by double-clicking it. If you are using Windows Vista, 7, or 8; instead of double-clicking, right-mouse click JRT.exe and select “Run as Administrator”.
The tool will open and start scanning your system.
Please be patient as this can take a while to complete depending on your system’s specifications.
On completion, a log (JRT.txt) is saved to your desktop and will automatically open.

Update all browsers

Run Delfix
Specific settings:
Please follow these steps in order:

In the case we used Defogger to turn off your CD emulation software. You can start it again and use the Enable button.
In the case we used Combofix. Deactivate your antivirus software once more, then rename the combofix.exe to uninstall.exe and run it one last time. You shall be noted that Combofix has been removed.
In any case please download delfix to your desktop.
Close all other programms and start delfix.
Please check all the boxes and run the tool.
delfix will now delete all found traces of our removal process
If there is still something left please delete it manualy.

Delete System Restore Points
Use CCleaner
Download from:
download.piriform.com

Install AVAST
Download from:
files.avast.com
files.avast.com
files.avast.com
files.avast.com

Update AVAST
Download from:
files.avast.com

Disable administrator account
‘net user administrator /active:no’

365 Charles Johnson  Jul 26, 2014 10:36:46am

re: #358 Randall Gross

That’s one of the most flatly ridiculous things I’ve ever seen you post. Zappa was politically active, well read, and highly intelligent. He would have seen the hate groups and fascists behind Ron Paul as easily as we do. He was also an atheist and very anti fundamentalist and things that the religious right was for — like limiting abortion - and fundamentalists are some of Ron Paul’s biggest fans. He was slightly libertarian, not wild west paleo libertarian. So don’t fall for that posthumous draft of Zappa thing that the libertards are trying to pull, he wouldn’t have had much to do with the modern libertarian movement.

sheesh.

Totally agree.

366 Killgore Trout  Jul 26, 2014 10:37:13am

re: #361 Charles Johnson

But you’re going quite a bit beyond “tolerating” Cumia, aren’t you? You’re defending him and subscribing to his podcast. That’s not “tolerating,” it’s supporting.

Yup, he’s funny and entertaining. I still like Carlin, Zappa and Pryor too. I would listen to Howard Stern but he doesn’t do much radio these days, just a few days a week and months long vacations.

367 Charles Johnson  Jul 26, 2014 10:39:35am

re: #366 Killgore Trout

You can like whoever you like, for whatever reasons you like, but don’t try to tell me it’s just “tolerating” racist hate speech when you’re actually supporting it.

368 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 26, 2014 10:44:00am

Speaking of douchebag atheists… Meet Dusty Smith, antisemite.

Youtube Video

Just a note: this has nothing to do with his atheism.

369 Charles Johnson  Jul 26, 2014 10:44:13am

Retweeted by Greenwald:

370 Stanley Sea  Jul 26, 2014 10:45:07am
371 Charles Johnson  Jul 26, 2014 10:47:04am

re: #359 Killgore Trout

Folks like Zappa, Lenny Bruce, George Carlin, Larry Flint, Howard Stern may be reprehensible people who say shocking things…

Uh, no. These are not reprehensible people.

On the other hand, the guy you’re supporting and defending, Anthony Cumia, is a truly reprehensible racist piece of shit.

372 Testy Toad T  Jul 26, 2014 10:49:37am

Apropos of nothing, I ducked through the preferred [$LOCALUNIVERSITY] coffee shop today. They tend to have two tip jars with competing messages/ideals/whatever, Netflix vs. Library book, things like that, and you sort of “vote” with your change.

Today was “Birth Control = Health Care” vs. “Birth Control = Sin”. It was running about $15 to zero (0).

I usually just toss in my spare coins from the transaction, but they got an extra dollar today.

373 Killgore Trout  Jul 26, 2014 10:50:31am

re: #367 Charles Johnson

You can like whoever you like, for whatever reasons you like, but don’t try to tell me it’s just “tolerating” racist hate speech when you’re actually supporting it.

I’ll subscribe to Cumia’s podcast and see if I like it. If it’s too political or racial I just won’t listen. I’ve also become a big fan of Joe Rogan’s podcast when he’s not doing political stuff he’s really good but far too edgy and controversial for corporate owned media. Podcasts have become a great venue for independent entertainment and commentary outside of the corporate environment where they’re vulnerable to activist boycotts. I like it.

374 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 26, 2014 10:53:17am

Barack Obama banned from entering Chechnya

Damn. I’m sure he’s heart-broken now :(

375 Randall Gross  Jul 26, 2014 10:53:24am

re: #368 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

Yeah I saw that.

376 HappyWarrior  Jul 26, 2014 10:56:18am

re: #362 Randall Gross

You are confusing shocking satirical use of offensive speech to make a point with actual plain old offensive speech meant to offend. Tolerating one is not the same as tolerating the other. Criticizing one is not the same as the other.

The thing about free speech and I think so many misunderstand this is that it’s not a license to say whatever the hell you want with no consequences. It doesn’t allow for the government to punish you but if I go around making offensive statements. It is your right to shun me or if I’m a prominent public figure to boycott me if you so choose. Boycotting is frankly another way of free speech. Your free speech rights aren’t a license to say whatever you want and to receive immunity from criticism. They’re a license to say what you want to without being punished by the law for it. Essentially the racist speech that has gotten a lot of people in trouble is basically the Twitter or radio version of going around the office saying n-word n-word. We’d both get fired if we did that at our jobs.

377 sattv4u2  Jul 26, 2014 10:56:42am

Welp

My work “week” starts tonight, so I think I’ll go try to take my power nap now before my sons friends get here

bbl

378 Lidane  Jul 26, 2014 10:57:14am

Good news: my landlord is willing to give me a pass on the rent.

Bad news: they’ve apparently let the bills pile up on this place for the last couple of months because my unemployment ran out and money was tight. Now I’m in a position where I have to give them pretty much everything I have today so they can make some kind of payment. As they put it, the rent can wait, but the bills don’t stop.

Ugh. This sucks. And it’s why I’m looking to get a new job as fast as possible, with a real salary and a real payment schedule.

379 Randall Gross  Jul 26, 2014 10:58:44am

re: #376 HappyWarrior

Eggs Ackly.

380 Rightwingconspirator  Jul 26, 2014 10:59:26am

re: #364 b_sharp

Here’s my sequence.

Favorited, and thanks. working through. I had been careful enough this kind of thing has not happened on my own machine for quite some time.

381 Backwoods_Sleuth  Jul 26, 2014 11:01:19am

I actually worked for Larry Flynt (please note the correct spelling, KT) for a brief time in the early 1970s.
We didn’t agree on everything, but the Larry Flynt I knew was an intelligent and thoughtful man who was a strong supporter of the First Amendment and equal rights, among other things.
I stopped working for him at his suggestion when he called me into his office one night and told me (very seriously) that my time would be much better spent by going back to college. He told me that I had the ability for much bigger and better things to make a difference in this world than working in his nightclub.
So I did just that.

382 jaunte  Jul 26, 2014 11:02:02am

Just because I hadn’t seen the word reprehensible ever applied to Frank Zappa before, I googled a little on the two terms. He used it in this book:

Making a Mockery of the Founding Fathers
Let me close out this chapter with a note about one of Pat Robertson’s more reprehensible activities: rewriting American history with a ‘Christian’ bias.

His 700 Club broadcasts have systematically disinformed viewers as to the real attitudes of the Founding Fathers on religion and its relationship to government. This seems to have been done in order to merchandise his peculiar vision of an America under the thumb of religious regulators. (One broadcast suggested the deployment of a “Spirit-Filled Police Force” that would just know — with the help of the Lord, of course — who the real criminals were.)

The revolutionaries who got this country started were not, as Robertson would have us believe, a bunch of wig-headed Jeezo-Grovelers, whimpering for guidance from The Unseen Hand. They had a First Amendment premonition about pimp-weasels like him. Speak up, boys…
pierroule.com

The quotes that follow are listed in Salvation for Sale, by Gerard Thomas. Straub.

383 HappyWarrior  Jul 26, 2014 11:07:25am

re: #379 Randall Gross

Eggs Ackly.

Right and to get at another point re: Zappa. The whole problem with the Gore committee was that it was the government attempting to censor music. It was not for example privately owned radio stations choosing not to play certain music or individual parents choosing not to allow their children to listen to certain music.

384 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Jul 26, 2014 11:07:45am

re: #342 Killgore Trout

. I have tried to learn from the experience.

Try harder. Learn better lessons. The appropriate lesson is not “Listening to racists is good for you”.

385 Killgore Trout  Jul 26, 2014 11:08:16am

re: #381 Backwoods_Sleuth

I actually worked for Larry Flynt (please note the correct spelling, KT) for a brief time in the early 1970s.
We didn’t agree on everything, but the Larry Flynt I knew was an intelligent and thoughtful man who was a strong supporter of the First Amendment and equal rights, among other things.
I stopped working for him at his suggestion when he called me into his office one night and told me (very seriously) that my time would be much better spent by going back to college. He told me that I had the ability for much bigger and better things to make a difference in this world than working in his nightclub.
So I did just that.

Wow, cool story. I knew he was smart but I’ve seen stories that he was kid of a prick and had a reputation as quite the racist. Nice to hear a story from someone who actually knew him.

386 Backwoods_Sleuth  Jul 26, 2014 11:13:28am

re: #385 Killgore Trout

Wow, cool story. I knew he was smart but I’ve seen stories that he was kid of a prick and had a reputation as quite the racist. Nice to hear a story from someone who actually knew him.

His brother, Jimmy, personally was not a nice guy, even though he was a First amendment guy as well, but for him it was all about money.
Helps to know who the people are.

387 HappyWarrior  Jul 26, 2014 11:17:44am

My first exposure to Flynt was him exposing the hypocrisy of the Clinton impeachment ringleaders. Wasn’t until later I learned that he was paralyzed due to being shot by a Neo-Nazi who was actually recently executed.

388 CuriousLurker  Jul 26, 2014 11:26:52am

Oh, the oppression! Way too much derp in here…

389 Backwoods_Sleuth  Jul 26, 2014 11:27:41am

Oh, and Larry Flynt suggested that I finish out the rest of the MONTH, instead of terminating that night or end of the week, so I could financially plan my next moves (my choice to finish the month or just leave right away).
And, to my great relief, he gave me a smallish additional amount of money when I left at the end of the month to “help tide me over”.

390 HappyWarrior  Jul 26, 2014 11:35:40am

re: #389 Backwoods_Sleuth

Oh, and Larry Flynt suggested that I finish out the rest of the MONTH, instead of terminating that night or end of the week, so I could financially plan my next moves (my choice to finish the month or just leave right away).
And, to my great relief, he gave me a smallish additional amount of money when I left at the end of the month to “help tide me over”.

Sounds like a really good guy.

391 BeachDem  Jul 26, 2014 11:35:45am

re: #359 Killgore Trout

Kind of surprising you can still type. I’d think you’d have severe wrist sprains from patting yourself on the back so vigorously.

392 Backwoods_Sleuth  Jul 26, 2014 11:40:00am

re: #390 HappyWarrior

Sounds like a really good guy.

He had his good points and his not so good points. But overall, not so bad.
My time working for Hustler never, never, made an appearance on my resume, but Larry Flynt was probably the biggest influence in shaping the person I eventually became.

393 CuriousLurker  Jul 26, 2014 11:41:37am

re: #302 wrenchwench

It was what it was. He isn’t now, and any supposition on what he would be cannot constitute an ‘is’.

Stop trying to stifle free speech and prevent people from having reasonable discussions, you liberal bully!!11!

394 Backwoods_Sleuth  Jul 26, 2014 12:00:44pm

re: #385 Killgore Trout

Wow, cool story. I knew he was smart but I’ve seen stories that he was kid of a prick and had a reputation as quite the racist. Nice to hear a story from someone who actually knew him.

For the record, Larry Flynt was NEVER EVER a racist.
And I do know that from personal experience.
Just goes to show, KT, you really do need to vet the stories you read and believe before just throwing them out there without any attempt at followup.
Concern is all well and good, but random concernz are just just annoying and just not helpful.

Oh, and my story isn’t really “cool”. It’s actually one of those “it is what it is” real life stories. It’s a story that I have rarely shared, but this time I had to interject because you just started throwing up a whole lot of names without having a clue about any one of them and why they did what they did.

Also, heads up, do not rely on wiki pages for relevant information. The Hustler clubs were NOT “strip clubs”, they were more like the last gasp of the 60s go-go dance clubs.

395 ObserverArt  Jul 26, 2014 1:31:07pm

re: #392 Backwoods_Sleuth

He had his good points and his not so good points. But overall, not so bad.
My time working for Hustler never, never, made an appearance on my resume, but Larry Flynt was probably the biggest influence in shaping the person I eventually became.

Backwoods…I’m late to the thread because I was busy and just saw your comments on Larry Flynt. I want to add to it.

I worked for a guy that had an ad agency and he worked for Larry Flint as an editor too. He was originally an AP editor then got into the Flynt thing heading their editing department for his publications. He later opened the ad agency I worked for, and that is when I heard all his stories about Flynt.

Flynt had a Hustler club here in Columbus at one time. It was in operation back in the early 70s. And of course, he lived here in Columbus where he bought a home in Bexley Ohio right by the Columbus School for Girls. That really tweaked some noses. He was always in the news while he was around Columbus.

I also knew a photographer that did the humor and some other photo setups for Flynt’s Hustler Magazine.

None of the people ever said a bad word about his business practices. He always grew his business and really many don’t know, but he is now the largest magazine distributor in the world. I think he also owns a bunch of publications. I don’t know how big he is now, he’s probably in all kinds of new media. He may be a boy from Kentucky…but he sure did good with what he could.

396 Backwoods_Sleuth  Jul 26, 2014 3:36:34pm

re: #395 ObserverArt

Thanks for sharing that, OA, because it does pretty much sum up who Larry Flynt was as a business owner and, more importantly, as an employer. He took a real interest in his employees and was able recognize talent. If the talent was something that would progress his business, he cultivated those talents. If he recognized other potential talents (like mine) outside his business sphere we were encouraged to move on to that different path, at the same time he didn’t take advantage of the lesser (and desperate) talent that he could easily exploit. And I know of others (mostly women and POC) who he kept on and raised up from the very lower start-up levels of the business.
Really, a remarkable person for whom to work.


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