AP: The Bush Administration Kept Colin Powell in the Dark About Torture

Reeking of guilt
WTF • Views: 35,939

Tonight’s horrifying story about the Bush administration’s moral bankruptcy: they reportedly kept some of their most public top officials deliberately ignorant of CIA torture practices after the 9/11 attacks — up to and including Secretary of State Colin Powell.

In common human terms, this is “knowledge of guilt.” They knew the public wouldn’t support this, so they just … hid it. Even from the most senior officials in the government, charged with interacting with the public on these issues.

WASHINGTON (AP) - A Senate report on the CIA’s interrogation and detention practices after the 9/11 attacks concludes that the agency initially kept the secretary of state and some U.S. ambassadors in the dark about harsh techniques and secret prisons, according to a document circulating among White House staff.

The still-classified report also says some ambassadors who were informed about interrogations of al-Qaida detainees at so-called black sites in their countries were instructed not to tell their superiors at the State Department, says the document, which the White House accidentally emailed to an Associated Press reporter.

The 6,300-page Senate report on the CIA’s interrogation program has been years in the making. The findings are expected to reveal additional details about the CIA’s program and renew criticisms that the U.S. engaged in torture as it questioned terrorism suspects after the 2001 attacks.

A congressional official who has read the Senate report confirmed that it makes the findings outlined in the document. A former senior CIA official said the secretary of state at the time, Colin Powell, eventually was informed about the program and sat in meetings in which harsh interrogation techniques were discussed. But Powell may not have been informed when the techniques were first used in 2002, the official said. A spokeswoman Wednesday said Powell would not comment.

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617 comments
1 b.d.  Jul 30, 2014 6:26:49pm

Accidentally emailed.

2 Killgore Trout  Jul 30, 2014 6:29:46pm

re: #1 b.d.

Accidentally emailed.

⸨ I M A G E ⸩ ⸨Image: obama_lol_web.jpg I M A G E ⸩

3 b.d.  Jul 30, 2014 6:31:25pm

re: #2 Killgore Trout

⸨ I M A G E ⸩ ⸨Image: obama_lol_web.jpg I M A G E ⸩

I guess Cheney was right about the Obama administration being irresponsible.

//

Whoopsie.

5 Charles Johnson  Jul 30, 2014 6:35:29pm

re: #2 Killgore Trout

I don’t know what that’s supposed to mean. Please explain.

6 EmmaAnne  Jul 30, 2014 6:38:28pm

re: #5 Charles Johnson

I don’t know what that’s supposed to mean. Please explain.

I figured it meant accidentally-on-purpose.

7 Stanley Sea  Jul 30, 2014 6:39:59pm

I can’t tell if I’m watching sharknado 1 or 2. Mechanical war shark?

8 teleskiguy  Jul 30, 2014 6:40:03pm

This absolutely FLOORS me! Dick Cheney is an evil man! And everybody knows he’s the architect of all this madness. How does that motherfucker live with himself?

9 Decatur Deb  Jul 30, 2014 6:40:29pm

re: #6 EmmaAnne

I figured it meant accidentally-on-purpose.

I hope the administration is that ‘Chicago’, rather than that sloppy.

10 Decatur Deb  Jul 30, 2014 6:40:48pm

re: #8 teleskiguy

This absolutely FLOORS me! Dick Cheney is an evil man! And everybody knows he’s the architect of all this madness. How does that motherfucker live with himself?

Bionics.

11 Charles Johnson  Jul 30, 2014 6:41:09pm

re: #6 EmmaAnne

Yeah, but I’m kind of at a loss to see how that’s funny.

Not getting the humor in hiding torture. Maybe it’s just me.

12 Stanley Sea  Jul 30, 2014 6:42:10pm

re: #11 Charles Johnson

Yeah, but I’m kind of at a loss to see how that’s funny.

Not getting the humor in hiding torture. Maybe it’s just me.

No Charles, it isn’t you.

13 teleskiguy  Jul 30, 2014 6:43:00pm

re: #10 Decatur Deb

Bionics.

Darth Cheney

14 Decatur Deb  Jul 30, 2014 6:43:03pm

re: #11 Charles Johnson

Yeah, but I’m kind of at a loss to see how that’s funny.

Not getting the humor in hiding torture. Maybe it’s just me.

The joke isn’t the hiding, it’s the reveal.

15 Killgore Trout  Jul 30, 2014 6:43:58pm

re: #5 Charles Johnson

I don’t know what that’s supposed to mean. Please explain.

Probably not an accident. It was most likely sent with a nod and wink. This is just how Washington works.

16 dog philosopher  Jul 30, 2014 6:46:02pm

i guess it’s pretty clear that the cheney wing regarded powell as practically a hippie peacenik

17 klys  Jul 30, 2014 6:46:10pm

And thus, instead of focusing on the fact that the previous administration took steps to hide torture from someone in their Cabinet, we are discussing the current administration.

LOL?

18 ObserverArt  Jul 30, 2014 6:46:26pm

Bush was a deceptive little man and cocky about it. And he let the other evil ones like Cheney do just about what they wanted…just so long as they got Saddam. The rest was all coloring.

19 William Barnett-Lewis  Jul 30, 2014 6:47:55pm

re: #13 teleskiguy

Darth Cheney

Thought about making that wisecrack but he’s not worth it. I read recently a comment that “No vice president has done more damage to our country, not even Vice President Aaron Burr, who shot and killed Alexander Hamilton 210 years ago.” and I’d have to agree with it.

Just a sad little chicken hawk happy to let others die to line his pockets. I’d tell the story of Uriah the Hittite but at least David felt remorse for his sins and repented. Cheney? Not so much…

20 Kid A  Jul 30, 2014 6:49:13pm

re: #15 Killgore Trout

Probably not an accident. It was most likely sent with a nod and wink. This is just how Washington works.

Oh, fuck it. Never mind.

21 Decatur Deb  Jul 30, 2014 6:49:24pm

re: #17 klys

And thus, instead of focusing on the fact that the previous administration took steps to hide torture from someone in their Cabinet, we are discussing the current administration.

LOL?

These shits thought they would always retain control of their little archive of horrors. LOL.

22 Pie-onist Overlord  Jul 30, 2014 6:50:00pm

What network is Sharknado on again?

23 Kid A  Jul 30, 2014 6:50:04pm

re: #11 Charles Johnson

Yeah, but I’m kind of at a loss to see how that’s funny.

Not getting the humor in hiding torture. Maybe it’s just me.

Too much craziness today. Don’t bother trying to figure it out, save yourself.

24 OhNoZombies!  Jul 30, 2014 6:50:14pm

You libs need to stop living in the past.
So the Bush Admin. was amoral and disgusting.
Obama is just as bad, with all that trying to extend healthcare coverage to everyone, and trying to get the economy back on track…Er wait…
Impeach !!!
///

25 Stanley Sea  Jul 30, 2014 6:50:21pm

re: #22 Pie-onist Overlord

What network is Sharknado on again?

Syfy

26 teleskiguy  Jul 30, 2014 6:50:53pm

re: #19 William Barnett-Lewis

Thought about making that wisecrack but he’s not worth it. I read recently a comment that “No vice president has done more damage to our country, not even Vice President Aaron Burr, who shot and killed Alexander Hamilton 210 years ago.” and I’d have to agree with it.

Just a sad little chicken hawk happy to let others die to line his pockets. I’d tell the story of Uriah the Hittite but at least David felt remorse for his sins and repented. Cheney? Not so much…

I guess the ultimate justice is that the man has to live with himself.

27 Kilroy01  Jul 30, 2014 6:50:55pm

Well if the White House was looking to get a distraction, it has one.

Impeachment huh?

Suing huh?

Let us see the Republicans defend this mess.

Want an example of high crimes? Tada!

Maybe someone will black bag Cheney to the Hague.

28 Pie-onist Overlord  Jul 30, 2014 6:51:15pm

re: #25 Stanley Sea

Syfy

I don’t have that.

29 Charles Johnson  Jul 30, 2014 6:51:20pm

re: #17 klys

And thus, instead of focusing on the fact that the previous administration took steps to hide torture from someone in their Cabinet, we are discussing the current administration.

LOL?

Yes, that’s what I was thinking too.

30 Pie-onist Overlord  Jul 30, 2014 6:51:45pm

The first Sharknado has 82% rating? WTF rottentomatoes???

31 Stanley Sea  Jul 30, 2014 6:52:49pm

re: #28 Pie-onist Overlord

I don’t have that.

I’m watching the last one I think. Obviously it didn’t stick in the mind. I see no NYC yet.

32 RealityBasedSteve  Jul 30, 2014 6:53:23pm

re: #26 teleskiguy

I guess the ultimate justice is that the man has to live with himself.

That only is effective is a person has a strong moral compass…. Cheney’s compass has always pointed directly toward “expedient”, not “honorable”

RBS

33 OhNoZombies!  Jul 30, 2014 6:53:30pm

re: #26 teleskiguy

I guess the ultimate justice is that the man has to live with himself.

That’ll only work if he has a conscious, and I think he told his to go fuck itself.

34 Stanley Sea  Jul 30, 2014 6:54:22pm

re: #32 RealityBasedSteve

That only is effective is a person has a strong moral compass…. Cheney’s compass has always pointed directly toward “expedient”, not “honorable”

RBS

H e. H a s. N o. H e a r t.

35 jamesfirecat  Jul 30, 2014 6:54:34pm
36 klys  Jul 30, 2014 6:54:40pm

Instead of the probably ill-advised post I could make, I give you darthstar’s tweet.

37 klys  Jul 30, 2014 6:54:57pm

re: #35 jamesfirecat

Is this from a key west cat show?

Yes.

38 HappyWarrior  Jul 30, 2014 6:55:02pm

re: #34 Stanley Sea

H e. H a s. N o. H e a r t.

He really was the worst part of the Bush administration. That’s saying something.

39 HappyWarrior  Jul 30, 2014 6:55:27pm

re: #36 klys

Instead of the probably ill-advised post I could make, I give you darthstar’s tweet.

[Embedded content]

Someone alert Darrell Issa.

40 Charles Johnson  Jul 30, 2014 6:55:52pm
41 William Barnett-Lewis  Jul 30, 2014 6:56:31pm

re: #26 teleskiguy

I guess the ultimate justice is that the man has to live with himself.

Except he seems to see himself as a model of virtue. Spit. I’d say more but I’m finding it difficult to avoid godwins.

42 Pie-onist Overlord  Jul 30, 2014 6:57:10pm

Oh wait I do have SyFy.

But I think I will read the Twitter feed instead.

43 b.d.  Jul 30, 2014 6:58:02pm

re: #40 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

It’s nice to at least see someone make money off of Twitter.

//

44 klys  Jul 30, 2014 6:58:04pm
45 jamesfirecat  Jul 30, 2014 6:58:11pm

re: #37 klys

Yes.

Weird, can’t see the guys face due to arm being in the way, and he’d probably have new felines since that was around ten years ago, but did the guy who ran the cat show have a thick French accent?

46 goddamnedfrank  Jul 30, 2014 6:58:44pm

re: #15 Killgore Trout

Probably not an accident. It was most likely sent with a nod and wink. This is just how Washington works.

You also support water-boarding and think Obama is still running a secret rendition program for the purposes of torturing people.

I’m not personally bothered by waterboarding …

47 Pie-onist Overlord  Jul 30, 2014 6:58:49pm
48 klys  Jul 30, 2014 6:59:26pm

re: #45 jamesfirecat

Weird, can’t see the guys face due to arm being in the way, and he’d probably have new felines since that was around ten years ago, but did the guy who ran the cat show have a thick French accent?

Oh, it’s still the same guy.

Have no worries.

I’ll probably find one where his face is there at some point. I took a good 50+.

49 jamesfirecat  Jul 30, 2014 7:00:42pm

re: #48 klys

Oh, it’s still the same guy.

Have no worries.

I’ll probably find one where his face is there at some point. I took a good 50+.

Good for him, glad to know he’s found a hobby/profession he enjoys, just surprised that he is still at it even though he probably has a second generation of cats now.

And yeah, If you can find a picture with his face visible I will show it to my folks, they should get a hoot out of it.

50 danarchy  Jul 30, 2014 7:01:42pm

re: #34 Stanley Sea

H e. H a s. N o. H e a r t.

Hasn’t he had two of them now ;)

51 Stanley Sea  Jul 30, 2014 7:01:46pm

Sharknado 2 just started west coast . FYI

52 Pie-onist Overlord  Jul 30, 2014 7:01:55pm

This reminds me that at our staff meeting yesterday we were discussing which was the worst movie ever made, Plan 9 From Outer Space or Sharknado.

53 Pie-onist Overlord  Jul 30, 2014 7:02:39pm

Plan 9 was voted the winner.

54 darthstar  Jul 30, 2014 7:02:46pm

Leave Bush alone.

Thanks Obama

55 team_fukit  Jul 30, 2014 7:03:09pm

re: #44 klys

Ha! Al Roker (in the movie) just called it a waterspout, but now he’s breaking down the Sharknado. “very unpredictable” “a twister with teeth” haha!!

56 klys  Jul 30, 2014 7:03:27pm

re: #49 jamesfirecat

Good for him, glad to know he’s found a hobby/profession he enjoys, just surprised that he is still at it even though he probably has a second generation of cats now.

And yeah, If you can find a picture with his face visible I will show it to my folks, they should get a hoot out of it.

Nope, I think I’m going to skip the ring of fire, thanks.

57 darthstar  Jul 30, 2014 7:03:41pm
58 stpaulbear  Jul 30, 2014 7:04:59pm

re: #26 teleskiguy

I guess the ultimate justice is that the man has to live with himself.

That would be true if he gave a shit, but I’d guess that he lives with himself just fine. The only positive is that most of us will be around to see him pass on to whatever hell karma has waiting for him.

59 Killgore Trout  Jul 30, 2014 7:05:46pm

re: #46 goddamnedfrank

Yeah, I think I can still stand behind that sentiment….

I’m not personally bothered by waterboarding and I’ll leave the legal questions to people more informed than myself. I prefer Obama’s approach to detainess and terrorism suspects over Bush’s. Bush had more verbal bluster and tough talk. Obama’s rhetoric is much softer which allows him to get away with much harsher action.
Morally, I don’t see Obama’s tactics as being superior (not that I’m terribly bothered by it). Assassinations, drone strikes, secret renditions to countries who do torture (real torture, not just waterboarding) and secret military prisons. I’d much rather be a jihadi in the Bush era. Obama’s pretty mean.

Although I haven’t been thrilled with much of Obama’s second term foreign policy I prefer the drone strikes. The few captured terrorists that Obama has imported seem to have a clear legal path unlike the Gitmo guys who are in permanent legal limbo.

60 teleskiguy  Jul 30, 2014 7:06:13pm

re: #58 stpaulbear

That would be true if he gave a shit, but I’d guess that he lives with himself just fine. The only positive is that most of us will be around to see him pass on to whatever hell karma has waiting for him.

That’s about the best of what we good people can hope for, I suppose.

61 klys  Jul 30, 2014 7:07:01pm
62 Charles Johnson  Jul 30, 2014 7:07:02pm

re: #53 Pie-onist Overlord

Plan 9 was voted the winner.

Plan 9 From Outer Space was the real thing. Ed Wood thought he was making a great movie. Sharknado isn’t even in the same ballpark, and the sequel is just a crass attempt to cash in.

63 Rocky-in-Connecticut  Jul 30, 2014 7:07:49pm

re: #8 teleskiguy

Cheney sleeps very well. He is absolutely of the mindset that Might Makes Right and The Ends Justifies the Means. He is a man devoid of moral compass, only one of pure right wing ideology.

Reality need not knock on Cheney’s door. As for Bush, a complete and utter boob. Not a loon. Not some sort of evil genius. But merely a boob.

64 Stanley Sea  Jul 30, 2014 7:08:17pm

Troll switched subjects.

65 OhNoZombies!  Jul 30, 2014 7:08:17pm

Jersey Shore Shark Attack
Worst. Movie. Evah.

66 klys  Jul 30, 2014 7:08:28pm

I feel kind of dirty posting in the same thread as someone who is totes ok with torture.

67 goddamnedfrank  Jul 30, 2014 7:08:36pm

re: #51 Stanley Sea

Sharknado 2 just started west coast . FYI

Meh. Today one of my Facebook “friends” posted a story which contained a Youtube video of a dolphin masturbating with a decapitated fish. Nothing can possibly top that for sheer depravity.

I’d share the link but people need to really think before they stare into the abyss like that.

68 jamesfirecat  Jul 30, 2014 7:08:46pm

re: #56 klys

Nope, I think I’m going to skip the ring of fire, thanks.

Shows you just how smart the cats are doesn’t it?

69 Rev_Arthur_Belling  Jul 30, 2014 7:09:31pm

Not sure if this has been posted: Killer Bees!

Some tragic news from Michigan today, as police investigate a man who apparently lost control of his car, drove into a vacant home filled with swarms upon swarms of bees and later died from his injuries, according to a local report.

MLive reports that the Saginaw County man was driving along a road when he continued straight along a curve. Onlookers saw him crash into the abandoned house, but couldn’t rescue him because they were being attacked by bees

70 Decatur Deb  Jul 30, 2014 7:10:56pm

re: #61 klys

I’m having a few issues with the science in #Sharknado2. Like, how did Tara Reid not have a single smudge on her eye makeup?

Waiting for Neil deGrasse Tyson’s analysis.

71 teleskiguy  Jul 30, 2014 7:11:14pm

I just revisited a fascinating Jon Stewart interview with John Yoo, former Assistant Deputy Attorney General for George W. Bush. I figured the videos are highly relevant to this thread.

Part One:

Comedy Central Video

Part Two:

Comedy Central Video

Part Three:

Comedy Central Video

72 goddamnedfrank  Jul 30, 2014 7:11:40pm

re: #64 Stanley Sea

Troll switched subjects.

Nah, it’s still the same - don’t look at Bush, look at Obama.

73 Charles Johnson  Jul 30, 2014 7:14:17pm
74 stpaulbear  Jul 30, 2014 7:15:36pm

re: #62 Charles Johnson

Plan 9 From Outer Space was the real thing. Ed Wood thought he was making a great movie. Sharknado isn’t even in the same ballpark, and the sequel is just a crass attempt to cash in.

Ed Wood actually made movies that were worse than Plan Nine from Outer Space. I’ve got a (very cheap) box set of Ed Wood movies and Plan Nine is one of the few that I can watch all the way through. I bailed on Jail Bait after about half an hour.

75 Pie-onist Overlord  Jul 30, 2014 7:16:20pm

re: #69 Rev_Arthur_Belling

when he continued straight along a curve

WHUT

76 jamesfirecat  Jul 30, 2014 7:16:41pm

re: #71 teleskiguy

I just revisited a fascinating Jon Stewart interview with John Yoo, former Assistant Deputy Attorney General for George W. Bush. I figured the videos are highly relevant to this thread.

Part One:

[Embedded content]

More to the point I believe that interview was the first time Jon Stewart showed up on this website.

littlegreenfootballs.com

The feedback was less than complimentary.

77 Mattand  Jul 30, 2014 7:17:39pm

re: #59 Killgore Trout

Yeah, I think I can still stand behind that sentiment….

Although I haven’t been thrilled with much of Obama’s second term foreign policy I prefer the drone strikes. The few captured terrorists that Obama has imported seem to have a clear legal path unlike the Gitmo guys who are in permanent legal limbo.

So you’re cool with torture.

What the fuck is wrong with you?

78 Stanley Sea  Jul 30, 2014 7:17:44pm

Very confused by bad tv. Just watched the end of nado1. Nado 1 just started again, torture syfy. As planned.

79 Joanne  Jul 30, 2014 7:20:24pm

re: #8 teleskiguy

This absolutely FLOORS me! Dick Cheney is an evil man! And everybody knows he’s the architect of all this madness. How does that motherfucker live with himself?

No soul. None.

Everything is a means to an end. People? Irrelevant.

80 Timothy Watson  Jul 30, 2014 7:20:51pm

re: #78 Stanley Sea

Very confused by bad tv. Just watched the end of nado1. Nado 1 just started again, torture syfy. As planned.

Syfy has been torturing people since before it was Syfy.

Just ask any Farscape fan.

81 Pie-onist Overlord  Jul 30, 2014 7:20:54pm

Of course

82 alpuz  Jul 30, 2014 7:24:32pm

re: #17 klys

Yeah…probably…wtf? Nod, wink. lol!

83 RealityBasedSteve  Jul 30, 2014 7:25:27pm

well, The Good, The Bad and the Ugly has come to an end. I leave you with this thought, “You see, in this world there’s two kinds of people, my friend: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig.”

Have a good evening or time-zone appropriate period. I’ll catch you all later.

RBS

84 darthstar  Jul 30, 2014 7:27:16pm

re: #61 klys

85 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Jul 30, 2014 7:27:27pm

re: #59 Killgore Trout

Yeah, I think I can still stand behind that sentiment….

Although I haven’t been thrilled with much of Obama’s second term foreign policy I prefer the drone strikes. The few captured terrorists that Obama has imported seem to have a clear legal path unlike the Gitmo guys who are in permanent legal limbo.

Waterboarding is torture. Horrible torture that makes people feel like they’re going to die.

This little known writer, Christopher Hitchens, underwent it and reported on it very compellingly.

vanityfair.com

This is the document he had to sign to undergo it:

“Water boarding” is a potentially dangerous activity in which the participant can receive serious and permanent (physical, emotional and psychological) injuries and even death, including injuries and death due to the respiratory and neurological systems of the body.

And this is some of what he had to say:

You may have read by now the official lie about this treatment, which is that it “simulates” the feeling of drowning. This is not the case. You feel that you are drowning because you are drowning—or, rather, being drowned, albeit slowly and under controlled conditions and at the mercy (or otherwise) of those who are applying the pressure. The “board” is the instrument, not the method. You are not being boarded. You are being watered.

A great concluding paragraph:

Which returns us to my starting point, about the distinction between training for something and training to resist it. One used to be told—and surely with truth—that the lethal fanatics of al-Qaeda were schooled to lie, and instructed to claim that they had been tortured and maltreated whether they had been tortured and maltreated or not. Did we notice what a frontier we had crossed when we admitted and even proclaimed that their stories might in fact be true? I had only a very slight encounter on that frontier, but I still wish that my experience were the only way in which the words “waterboard” and “American” could be mentioned in the same (gasping and sobbing) breath.

All the people who have volunteered to undergo it have come away convinced it was torture, for the simple reason that it is torture. That’s why our special forces soldiers are taught to resist it: because it’s a torture technique.

Now, torture is also a shitty, shitty way to get information. WHy? because if you capture Abdul Hamad, but it’s actually Achmed who knows where the bomb is, Abdul will happily tell you where the bomb is to get you to stop torturing him. He’ll tell you first, of course, that he doesn’t know, but if you keep torturing him, he’ll tell you where the bomb/Taliban camp is. You go and search and find no bomb. Torture Abdul some more. Another location—along with, of course, pleas that he doesn’t actually know. More torture. Yay.

Or say you actually got Achmed. How can you tell when he’s actually broken, when he’s telling you the truth, and when he’s just telling you something to get you to stop? Unless you already know what Achmed knows—at which point it’s pointless to torture him—the information you’ll get from him can’t be divided into the true and the false. It’s all just “What Achmed said to make the torture stop.” Is it a lie, a truth, a deception? Who knows. To find out, you have to do real intelligence work.

This point has been made to you many times and you just blithely ignore it and go on pretending that torture is some sort of cheat mode that unlocks all the terrorists secrets, when in fact it not only is a despicable violation of American ideals, but also fundamentally flawed as an interrogation tactic.

86 Rev_Arthur_Belling  Jul 30, 2014 7:27:45pm

re: #75 Pie-onist Overlord

Police say the man may have crashed due to a “medical emergency.”

I saw this once where a guy in a car crashed because he had a massive heart attack. His blood had stopped flowing before the crash because you could see cuts on him with no blood loss.

87 Stanley Sea  Jul 30, 2014 7:27:59pm

OT: Bush/Cheney will be long & buried before people have guts, avoid criminal prosecution, get the death bed balls to speak out.

88 goddamnedfrank  Jul 30, 2014 7:28:53pm

The thing that gets me about the Sharknado crap is that we’re sitting here in a world with no earnest sequels to Big Trouble in Little China and Buckaroo Banzai.

Cheese aficionadism simply ain’t what it used to be.

89 TedStriker  Jul 30, 2014 7:28:59pm

re: #84 darthstar

Umm, I hate to point out a typo you just made to Wil Wheaton, but it’s “Wesley”, not “Westley”.

/facepalm

////

90 alpuz  Jul 30, 2014 7:29:31pm

re: #70 Decatur Deb

Is it that bad? The first one was bad, what with the chainsaw and all. How can this one be any worse? I’m not going to watch TV tonight. I know I said I would, but I guess I misspoke.

91 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Jul 30, 2014 7:30:26pm

re: #88 goddamnedfrank

The thing that gets me about the Sharknado crap is that we’re sitting here in a world with no earnest sequels to Big Trouble in Little China and Buckaroo Banzai.

Cheese aficionadism simply ain’t what it used to be.

Have you seen The Good, The Bad, and the Weird?

rottentomatoes.com

Spiritual successor.

92 jamesfirecat  Jul 30, 2014 7:30:47pm

re: #84 darthstar

[Embedded content]

Why do you think Wesley Crusher would know much about girls?

93 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Jul 30, 2014 7:32:15pm

Another reason not to torture: To do so, you have to hire torturers. Imagine that person, the person who wants that job of inflicting so much pain on another human being that they’ll betray everything they love and everything they hold dear. That is the guy that we’re trusting to do the right thing for the US, a guy who can, over and over again, inflict that sort of agony on another human being.

94 Decatur Deb  Jul 30, 2014 7:33:06pm

re: #90 alpuz

Is it that bad? The first one was bad, what with the chainsaw and all. How can this one be any worse? I’m not going to watch TV tonight. I know I said I would, but I guess I misspoke.

(Haven’t seen either. Life really is too short.)

95 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Jul 30, 2014 7:33:28pm

re: #92 jamesfirecat

Why do you think Wesley Crusher would know much about girls?

Because dude’s pimping.

96 socrets  Jul 30, 2014 7:34:02pm

re: #63 Rocky-in-Connecticut

Still doesn’t mean he shouldn’t be charge with war crimes. After all, he is “the decider” who decided to give Evil Dick the number 2 spot, and had to ratify his sick actions.

97 William Barnett-Lewis  Jul 30, 2014 7:34:39pm

re: #85 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

You’re making the mistake of thinking that the Troll cares.

98 Charles Johnson  Jul 30, 2014 7:36:07pm
99 EPR-radar  Jul 30, 2014 7:37:08pm

re: #97 William Barnett-Lewis

Your making the mistake of thinking that the Troll cares.

The fact that Obdi replied to a troll doesn’t negate the usefulness of the reply.

100 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Jul 30, 2014 7:37:43pm

re: #97 William Barnett-Lewis

Your making the mistake of thinking that the Troll cares.

I have no idea what motivates Killgore to be a self-proclaimed douchebag. The point of that wasn’t to get him to feel anything or respond: the first is ineffable, and the second—he’s too chickenshit.

Unfortunately, his viewpoint is a very common one, so it’s worth debunking. Hitchens did a wonderful service in reporting on it honestly, but some people who are really into this conflict view of the world can still force themselves not to look directly at it.

101 Stanley Sea  Jul 30, 2014 7:38:34pm

re: #99 EPR-radar

The fact that Obdi replied to a troll doesn’t negate the usefulness of the reply.

It’s the needed antidote that reminds us why LGF is good.

102 klys  Jul 30, 2014 7:41:07pm

re: #101 Stanley Sea

It’s the needed antidote that reminds us why LGF is good.

Well, that and cat snuggles.

SNUGGLES.

103 EPR-radar  Jul 30, 2014 7:41:17pm

re: #100 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

I have no idea what motivates Killgore to be a self-proclaimed douchebag. The point of that wasn’t to get him to feel anything or respond: the first is ineffable, and the second—he’s too chickenshit.

Unfortunately, his viewpoint is a very common one, so it’s worth debunking. Hitchens did a wonderful service in reporting on it honestly, but some people who are really into this conflict view of the world can still force themselves not to look directly at it.

I still remember some douchebag at RedState that made a post years ago comparing conditions experienced by competitive swimmers during swim practice to water boarding.

Much hooting and hollering from the dimwits ensued, but really —- can an error get any more categorical than confusing a voluntary activity with torture of a captive?

104 Decatur Deb  Jul 30, 2014 7:43:37pm

Turns out there really is a Garage a Trois. Good garage band, weak on math.

Youtube Video

105 Charles Johnson  Jul 30, 2014 7:49:43pm

re: #100 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

When I read Hitchens’ article about being waterboarded, at first I didn’t want to accept what it was telling me. I actually had a sleepless night trying to work through the moral issues, and eventually accepted the simple truth that our government was torturing people. Really, really torturing people, in a way that was completely beyond the pale of what I thought the US was capable of.

I’ll never go back to being that person who made fun of waterboarding and torture. Never. It’s one of the major reasons for LGF’s change of direction.

106 alpuz  Jul 30, 2014 7:52:03pm

re: #104 Decatur Deb

That’s a tough call. Does the xylophone player count? Or, is it the guy on sax?

I’m gonna go off of instinct on this call. Xylophone beats sax just because of the full frame face shot of the sax guy about halfway through. Man, I hope thats a xylophone. Otherwise I’m gonna feel real silly. Goodnight folks

107 calochortus  Jul 30, 2014 7:53:18pm

re: #93 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

Another reason not to torture: To do so, you have to hire torturers. Imagine that person, the person who wants that job of inflicting so much pain on another human being that they’ll betray everything they love and everything they hold dear. That is the guy that we’re trusting to do the right thing for the US, a guy who can, over and over again, inflict that sort of agony on another human being.

Those torturers also need to stay in practice, as it were, not something we really want to encourage.

108 Charles Johnson  Jul 30, 2014 7:56:23pm
109 Romantic Heretic  Jul 30, 2014 7:59:54pm

re: #85 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

All the people who have volunteered to undergo it have come away convinced it was torture, for the simple reason that it is torture. That’s why our special forces soldiers are taught to resist it: because it’s a torture technique.

I recall seeing a video of some minor right wing radio jock undergoing waterboarding. He came away saying it was torture and he was still in favour of using it!

There’s something really, really wrong with those people.

110 Rev_Arthur_Belling  Jul 30, 2014 8:00:55pm

re: #109 Romantic Heretic

I recall seeing a video of some minor right wing radio jock undergoing waterboarding. He came away saying it was torture and he was still in favour of using it!

There’s something really, really wrong with those people.

I recall Sean Hannity being a chickenhawk and not going through with it.

111 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Jul 30, 2014 8:01:05pm

re: #105 Charles Johnson

I’ve had what is probably a worse version of it done to me—a rag stuffed in my mouth, and water poured onto it. I think it’s a lot more dangerous, but the real agony from it came just from that sensation of drowning.

I’m a pragmatist at heart, so first and foremost, before any moral issues enter, there’s the question: Is it effective? And no, compared to other interrogation techniques, it sucks. It has the same problems as other techniques—you can’t tell if they’re lying or not without verifying it outside—with the added problem that the person is going to absolutely hate you.

Good interrogation techniques co-opt the person, befriend them, hint about how their life could be so much worse but make it a little bit better. Humans are natural confessors. Our WWII intelligence found this out, and used it to great effect.

Beyond that, there’s the question of “Is this an effective tactic in a broader sense?” And there again, no. Christopher Hitchens is right on that: It muddies America’s purpose and our ability to project our values when we violate them so abjectly. “Welcome the Americans, they don’t torture as much as these other guys,” Is not a great rallying cry. And likewise, doing this puts our soldiers, and our agents, in much greater danger themselves of retaliatory torture, not just from people who were doing it already but people who can now say “Well, the US did it and said it was legitimate, so how can they complain when we do it?”

Finally, the moral argument is pretty straightforwards. People often say “But we’re fine with killing people” as though that’s a counter-argument. Yes, we are fine with killing people. Or wounding them terribly. No, that doesn’t mean we have to be okay with anything short of killing them. Death is not the worst thing, and again, we’re human. We value our integrity, our free will. Breaking someone like that can shatter their life, not just because of the effects of the torture but having to live with how easily they got you to lie and say that your brothers, your cousins were guilty, to tell them everything—it’s a horrible thing to do to another human being. In addition, you can’t just kill people. You can’t kill them when they’ve surrendered or when they’re in your care. Again, it’s a human thing.

112 Rev_Arthur_Belling  Jul 30, 2014 8:01:13pm

re: #108 Charles Johnson

Tweet at me defending the ‘HitlerWasRight’ hashtag? Say hello to my block button.

WTF?

113 Romantic Heretic  Jul 30, 2014 8:01:47pm

re: #88 goddamnedfrank

The thing that gets me about the Sharknado crap is that we’re sitting here in a world with no earnest sequels to Big Trouble in Little China and Buckaroo Banzai.

Cheese aficionadism simply ain’t what it used to be.

Now those were wonderfully cheesy movies.

114 Decatur Deb  Jul 30, 2014 8:02:20pm

re: #105 Charles Johnson

When I read Hitchens’ article about being waterboarded, at first I didn’t want to accept what it was telling me. I actually had a sleepless night trying to work through the moral issues, and eventually accepted the simple truth that our government was torturing people. Really, really torturing people, in a way that was completely beyond the pale of what I thought the US was capable of.

I’ll never go back to being that person who made fun of waterboarding and torture. Never. It’s one of the major reasons for LGF’s change of direction.

You didn’t think we tortured? We taught a freakn’ doctorate in it, depending on who you believe.

en.wikipedia.org

informationclearinghouse.info

115 Charles Johnson  Jul 30, 2014 8:05:56pm

re: #114 Decatur Deb

I knew about the School of the Americas, but I naively thought we’d learned a lesson and those days were over. Instead, the Bush administration brought that shit right into our own house. I didn’t want to believe it, but I was wrong.

116 blueraven  Jul 30, 2014 8:07:33pm

Oh good grief. Ted Cruz is “whipping” house members to vote against the bill Boehner will be presenting tomorrow? to deal with THE BORDER.

The fate of a Republican proposal to address a brewing immigration crisis along the U.S.-Mexico border was cast into doubt Wednesday after a tea party senator lobbied against it to House members.

The effort by Sen. Ted Cruz (Tex.), who made his pitch to a group of House Republicans in a closed-door evening meeting, marked another direct shot at attempts by Speaker John A. Boehner (R-Ohio) to deal with the influx of illegal immigrants arriving from Central America.

Will they really fall for this again?

117 Decatur Deb  Jul 30, 2014 8:08:36pm

re: #115 Charles Johnson

I knew about the School of the Americas, but I naively thought we’d learned a lesson and those days were over. Instead, the Bush administration brought that shit right into our own house. I didn’t want to believe it, but I was wrong.

It’s really important to believe that we’re slowly getting better. That’s easier if you believe we’ve been total shits in the past.

118 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Jul 30, 2014 8:08:45pm

Oh hey here’s my post in that old thread:

honestly think a lot of this is that people are morally repulsed by what has to be done in order to get good intel; to befriend the captives, to co-opt them. I think people would rather just hit them and beat them down and the idea of being friendly to them, even in the service of a greater good, is just morally repellent to them. It’s rather short-sighted.

A friend of mine who is a cop says this is what he has to train all the new cops on. You get a suspect. He killed someone, you’re sure of it. You can scream at him and tell him he’s a fucking scumbag and a loser and you’re going to come down hard on him and, if you want, cuff him around the head when you’re in an areas without cameras. And he probably won’t say anything except to curse at you.

Or you can say admiring things to him, tell him what a hard man he is, brag about the number of people you’ve killed yourself, and befriend him. And that way you’ll get him to actually talk and then can get up and have the evidence you need to put him away.

119 Belafon  Jul 30, 2014 8:08:57pm

re: #113 Romantic Heretic

I was always waiting for Spaceballs 3: The Search for Spaceballs 2.

120 Rev_Arthur_Belling  Jul 30, 2014 8:11:18pm

re: #119 Belafon

I was always waiting for Spaceballs 3: The Search for Spaceballs 2.

Mel Brooks wasn’t big on sequels. I would have loved to have seen a Blazing Saddles 2.

121 EPR-radar  Jul 30, 2014 8:11:31pm

re: #105 Charles Johnson

When I read Hitchens’ article about being waterboarded, at first I didn’t want to accept what it was telling me. I actually had a sleepless night trying to work through the moral issues, and eventually accepted the simple truth that our government was torturing people. Really, really torturing people, in a way that was completely beyond the pale of what I thought the US was capable of.

I’ll never go back to being that person who made fun of waterboarding and torture. Never. It’s one of the major reasons for LGF’s change of direction.

For the record, let it be noted that old standbys like the thumbscrew, ripping out fingernails with pliers, hot pokers etc. would arguably not be torture according to those odious Bush administration torture memos. en.wikipedia.org

122 Charles Johnson  Jul 30, 2014 8:13:47pm
123 jamesfirecat  Jul 30, 2014 8:14:41pm

re: #120 Rev_Arthur_Belling

Mel Brooks wasn’t big on sequels. I would have loved to have seen a Blazing Saddles 2.

Blazing saddles came to such a perfect ending there simply could not be an effective sequel to it, the main villain was dead, the main conflict was thoroughly resolved and I can not think of anywhere for the story to go from where it ended (what are we gonna have Bart wind up needing to be the sherif of another bigoted town, or maybe a Chinese guy do it instead this time?)

Spaceballs on the other hand took place in a much bigger universe/setting and we know the three main villains all survived, there was “room” for a sequel there.

124 klys  Jul 30, 2014 8:16:04pm

re: #123 jamesfirecat

Blazing saddles came to such a perfect ending there simply could not be an effective sequel to it, the main villain was dead, the main conflict was thoroughly resolved and I can not think of anywhere for the story to go from where it ended (what are we gonna have Bart wind up needing to be the sherif of another bigoted town, or maybe a Chinese guy do it instead this time?)

Spaceballs on the other hand took place in a much bigger universe/setting and we know the three main villains all survived, there was “room” for a sequel there.

Plus, you know, SW was a trilogy…

125 missliberties  Jul 30, 2014 8:17:02pm

Gah!

This is why the current GOP is so suspicious of everything Obama.

They remember what they did when they were in charge. And most of it was illegal and under the radar.

The bastids.

126 blueraven  Jul 30, 2014 8:21:36pm

re: #122 Charles Johnson

Changelog: On Torture

OMG

enhanced interrogation experience

127 Joanne  Jul 30, 2014 8:24:34pm

re: #110 Rev_Arthur_Belling

I recall Sean Hannity being a chickenhawk and not going through with it.

Even conservative Mancow Muller said it was torture after Hannity pussied out of the “no big deal”. Hannity is a horses ass.

128 Belafon  Jul 30, 2014 8:25:55pm

re: #125 missliberties

You can’t keep stuff from getting leaked if you’re not in charge.

129 Kragar  Jul 30, 2014 8:39:11pm
130 allegro  Jul 30, 2014 8:42:14pm

I keep wondering who’s on the GOP/Foxnooz Talking Point Committee. There’s gotta be one. Who are those guys and when are the meetings?

131 klys  Jul 30, 2014 8:55:09pm

To combat some of the earlier ugliness:

Here’s where we left off last time.

It’s been a bit.

132 GlutenFreeJesus  Jul 30, 2014 8:56:14pm

re: #85 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

Sean Hannity, where are you bro?

133 Amory Blaine  Jul 30, 2014 9:01:46pm

Sounds like it needs further investigation to me.

134 Mentis Fugit  Jul 30, 2014 9:13:43pm

Here’s a game the whole family can play.

If you could waterboard Sean Hannity, what would you get him to confess to?

135 goddamnedfrank  Jul 30, 2014 9:16:22pm

re: #122 Charles Johnson

My two links from that thread are still instructive:

‘Enhanced interrogations’ don’t work, ex-FBI agent tells panel

“From my experience — and I speak as someone who has personally interrogated many terrorists and elicited important actionable intelligence — I strongly believe that it is a mistake to use what has become known as the ‘enhanced interrogation techniques,’ ” Soufan noted in his written statement.

Such a position is “shared by many professional operatives, including the CIA officers who were present at the initial phases of the Abu Zubaydah interrogation.”

Soufan told the committee that within the first hour of his interrogation of Zubaydah, the suspected terrorist provided actionable intelligence.

But once the CIA contractors took over and used harsh methods, Zubaydah stopped talking, Soufan said. When Soufan was asked to resume questioning, Zubaydah cooperated. After another round of more coercive techniques used by the contractors, however, Soufan said it was difficult for him to re-engage Zubaydah.

Fort Hunt’s Quiet Men Break Silence on WWII

Back then, they and their commanders wrestled with the morality of bugging prisoners’ cells with listening devices. They felt bad about censoring letters. They took prisoners out for steak dinners to soften them up. They played games with them.

“We got more information out of a German general with a game of chess or Ping-Pong than they do today, with their torture,” said Henry Kolm, 90, an MIT physicist who had been assigned to play chess in Germany with Hitler’s deputy, Rudolf Hess.

Blunt criticism of modern enemy interrogations was a common refrain at the ceremonies held beside the Potomac River near Alexandria. Across the river, President Bush defended his administration’s methods of detaining and questioning terrorism suspects during an Oval Office appearance.

Several of the veterans, all men in their 80s and 90s, denounced the controversial techniques. And when the time came for them to accept honors from the Army’s Freedom Team Salute, one veteran refused, citing his opposition to the war in Iraq and procedures that have been used at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba.

“I feel like the military is using us to say, ‘We did spooky stuff then, so it’s okay to do it now,’ ” said Arno Mayer, 81, a professor of European history at Princeton University.

136 Kragar  Jul 30, 2014 9:16:45pm

re: #134 Mentis Fugit

Here’s a game the whole family can play.

If you could waterboard Sean Hannity, what would you get him to confess to?

Why bother with questions? You couldn’t trust the answers.

137 goddamnedfrank  Jul 30, 2014 9:23:45pm

There are quite a few posters from that Changelog Torture thread that I miss (WindUpBird, SFZ) but man I’d forgotten what a ginormous toolbag researchok could be.

138 Hercules Grytpype-Thynneghazi  Jul 30, 2014 9:28:46pm

re: #136 Kragar

Why bother with questions? You couldn’t trust the answers.

I think I’d believe him if he confessed that waterboarding is torture.

139 Kragar  Jul 30, 2014 9:36:06pm
140 Kragar  Jul 30, 2014 9:38:31pm

Warner Bros’ New Franchise Play: ‘Dragonriders of Pern’ Book Series

On an endless search to find big-scale fantasy books that lend themselves to global franchises, Warner Bros has optioned the Pern book series from the estate of American-Irish author Anne McCaffrey.

141 GeneJockey  Jul 30, 2014 9:50:30pm

re: #140 Kragar

Warner Bros’ New Franchise Play: ‘Dragonriders of Pern’ Book Series

I’ve always thought they might lend themselves to a proper cinematic treatment. It’s really only now they have the special effects to do it.

142 freetoken  Jul 30, 2014 9:53:18pm

re: #140 Kragar

I’m afraid that in the end these type of movies will all end up looking alike, being somewhat to greatly reminiscent of LOTR.

143 teleskiguy  Jul 30, 2014 9:58:09pm

Christopher Hitchens’s piece for Vanity Fair on torture is a must-read.

144 freetoken  Jul 30, 2014 9:59:34pm

I’m in a teal and maroon sort of mood, which makes me sound very Victorian I suppose.

Maroon is not used a lot in websites, save perhaps for gaming sites, … or porn… . It’s too strong.

145 Charles Johnson  Jul 30, 2014 10:04:18pm
146 teleskiguy  Jul 30, 2014 10:05:37pm
147 Higgs Boson's Mate  Jul 30, 2014 10:06:25pm

re: #142 freetoken

The genre’s reliance on overblown SFX rather than such old fashioned things as dialogue, plot, character arc and decent acting have already imparted a certain sameness.

148 William Barnett-Lewis  Jul 30, 2014 10:08:09pm

re: #142 freetoken

I’m afraid that in the end these type of movies will all end up looking alike, being somewhat to greatly reminiscent of LOTR.

Hopefully they’ll remember it’s actually SF and not fantasy … nah, it’s Hollywood, they won’t care. If we’re lucky it’ll be as almost good as John Carter…

149 Blue Fielder  Jul 30, 2014 10:08:52pm

re: #15 Killgore Trout

Probably not an accident. It was most likely sent with a nod and wink. This is just how Washington works.

Lemme be blunt: I’ve been selling plasma recently to bolster my mad money, and it’s just not coming fast enough. I need to know: does selling your fucking integrity pay well?

150 Blue Fielder  Jul 30, 2014 10:10:06pm

re: #140 Kragar

Oh lord, my ex is going to be insufferable about this.

Well, moreso.

151 Blue Fielder  Jul 30, 2014 10:21:54pm

re: #100 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

I have no idea what motivates Killgore to be a self-proclaimed douchebag.

Far be it from me to speak for another, but I’ll field this one. Part of it is John Gabriel’s Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory:John Gabriel’s Greater Internet F*ckwad Theory

The other part, as based on the observations I’ve had of KT running headlong into everyone else’s opinions like a kid who thinks he’s the Hulk, is that he probably thinks of himself as performing a service. People like him justify being wrong about everything by saying they’re “fighting groupthink”. It’s utterly transparent to anyone who’s not a naïf, but they’ll try it anyway for the sake of fooling anyone they can.

152 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Jul 30, 2014 11:45:08pm

re: #74 stpaulbear

Ed Wood actually made movies that were worse than Plan Nine from Outer Space. I’ve got a (very cheap) box set of Ed Wood movies and Plan Nine is one of the few that I can watch all the way through. I bailed on Jail Bait after about half an hour.

If you are a science fiction fan, then check out “Galaxy 666” by Pel Torro, he is the Ed Wood of his genre.

153 Rev_Arthur_Belling  Jul 30, 2014 11:55:56pm

Just saw a replay of Chris Matthews. Sam Stein is a fucking idiot. No wonder he works for HuffPo.

154 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Jul 31, 2014 12:08:51am

re: #147 Higgs Boson’s Mate

The genre’s reliance on overblown SFX rather than such old fashioned things as dialogue, plot, character arc and decent acting have already imparted a certain sameness.

Sharknado was an example of High Concept selling itself.

155 Jack Burton  Jul 31, 2014 12:26:07am

re: #73 Charles Johnson

Something amazing happens when really bad films or music are made by people who believe in what they’re doing with all their hearts.

Case in point: The Room

156 Dr Lizardo  Jul 31, 2014 1:11:11am

re: #62 Charles Johnson

Plan 9 From Outer Space was the real thing. Ed Wood thought he was making a great movie. Sharknado isn’t even in the same ballpark, and the sequel is just a crass attempt to cash in.

I showed Plan 9 From Outer Space to some of my students a few years ago; they picked up on the comedic aspect of it pretty quickly, but they thought Ed Wood was deliberately making a parody - like Airplane! When I pointed out that he was attempting to make a genuinely serious sci-fi/horror film, they really started laughing.

157 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 31, 2014 1:34:30am

re: #59 Killgore Trout

I’m not personally bothered by waterboarding

You’re not bothered by torture but you fancy yourself to be better than, say, Hamas. Funny, that.

158 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 31, 2014 1:42:56am

re: #139 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Seems like I shouldn’t have praised Max Seddon’s reporting after all.

“To sit at the book”=”to sit at the notebook”. Also, I haven’t seen it personally, coz the page has been locked, but acc. to many commenters he had a laptop emoji right after “buk”. On the screenshots I could find there certainly is some emoji after the word, but the person who made the screenshots didn’t have the font installed, so it is displayed as a square. Finally, under the other photos he actually says that his vehicle is a mere APC.

All in all, seems like a giant failure of a story, that might backfire.

159 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 31, 2014 1:56:45am

A popular twitter account israelunderfire re-tweets that David Duke in a skirt, Pamela Geller:

160 Targetpractice  Jul 31, 2014 4:04:11am

Rather quiet ‘round here.

161 Dr Lizardo  Jul 31, 2014 4:07:24am

re: #160 Targetpractice

Rather quiet ‘round here.

Here’s how to liven things up.

The Madmen of Mandoras, a 1963 B-film better known to audiences under an alternative title, They Saved Hitler’s Brain!, an edited version with additional footage shot in 1969 and added to the original for TV broadcast.

Youtube Video

imdb.com

Delightfully silly and a B-movie classic.

162 Rev_Arthur_Belling  Jul 31, 2014 4:08:06am

Chuck Todd is being the tone police again on Morning Joe. Gack, I haven’t watched this show in years, and now I remember why.

163 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Jul 31, 2014 4:10:06am

re: #159 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

One of the things that annoys me about that slogan is that, historically, I probably would have supported the ‘savage’ with about equal frequency. Like in the Congo, for example, with the Belgians.

164 Targetpractice  Jul 31, 2014 4:11:34am

re: #163 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

One of the things that annoys me about that slogan is that, historically, I probably would have supported the ‘savage’ with about equal frequency. Like in the Congo, for example, with the Belgians.

One of the realities of the present situation is that the “savage” is getting harder to differentiate from the “civilized man.”

165 Rev_Arthur_Belling  Jul 31, 2014 4:12:56am

Also, more Lois Lerner e-mails. Egads, this bullshit just won’t go away.

166 Targetpractice  Jul 31, 2014 4:14:03am

re: #165 Rev_Arthur_Belling

Also, more Lois Lerner e-mails. Egads, this bullshit just won’t go away.

Is there reason to be concerned about how the IRS was handling emails? Yes.

Is this any proof that the GOTP’s accusations against the IRS are true? FUCK NO!

167 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 31, 2014 4:17:32am

re: #158 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

OK, actually only his VK was locked, here is that instagram message:

instagram.com

Supposedly the emoji can be seen on an Android device. Anyone with such willing to make a screenshot? I tried one Android phone but it showed only squares there too.

168 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 31, 2014 4:19:19am

re: #167 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

Well, case closed:

emojipedia.org

169 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 31, 2014 4:21:04am

re: #168 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

The other one, following the word “music”:

emojipedia.org

170 Backwoods_Sleuth  Jul 31, 2014 4:24:01am

re: #167 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

OK, actually only his VK was locked, here is that instagram message:

instagram.com

Supposedly the emoji can be seen on an Android device. Anyone with such willing to make a screenshot? I tried one Android phone but it showed only squares there too.

Does this help?

171 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 31, 2014 4:26:35am

re: #170 Backwoods_Sleuth

Yep, thanks :)

172 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 31, 2014 4:28:46am

Unbelievable incompetence on Seddon’s part, and the one that has already spread. Now they will have to publish a refutation and all the real evidence from social networks will be dismissed as unserious because of that. F’n idiots.

173 Ryan King  Jul 31, 2014 4:31:19am

Never F-ing fails. Under a deadline to deliver a proposal I’ve spend many hours on, my proposal software develops a major problem that doesn’t allow me to do any more work.

Send support ticket, wait for them to email me a link to their forums with a Help file that won’t fix my problem, to which I will reply with ‘Call me on the phone now.’

174 Pie-onist Overlord  Jul 31, 2014 4:34:06am

re: #108 Charles Johnson

I just can’t even.

175 William Barnett-Lewis  Jul 31, 2014 4:34:41am

re: #167 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

OK, actually only his VK was locked, here is that instagram message:

instagram.com

Supposedly the emoji can be seen on an Android device. Anyone with such willing to make a screenshot? I tried one Android phone but it showed only squares there too.

In his msg I see a computer, a speaker with sound waves, a thumb up & a wink smiley.

176 Pie-onist Overlord  Jul 31, 2014 4:37:56am

re: #123 jamesfirecat

Blazing saddles came to such a perfect ending there simply could not be an effective sequel to it, the main villain was dead, the main conflict was thoroughly resolved and I can not think of anywhere for the story to go from where it ended (what are we gonna have Bart wind up needing to be the sherif of another bigoted town, or maybe a Chinese guy do it instead this time?)

Spaceballs on the other hand took place in a much bigger universe/setting and we know the three main villains all survived, there was “room” for a sequel there.

The main villain in Blazing Saddles didn’t die, he had a cab drive him out of the picture.

Bart and Jim also drove off into the sunset in a pimped-out Cadillac.

177 Pie-onist Overlord  Jul 31, 2014 4:51:08am

I KNOW WHO THE ENEMY IS & IT AIN’T THE DEMOCRATS

178 Targetpractice  Jul 31, 2014 4:57:40am

re: #177 Pie-onist Overlord

I KNOW WHO THE ENEMY IS & IT AIN’T THE DEMOCRATS

[Embedded content]

Haven’t found the wingnut yet who doesn’t believe that American Jews blindly support Israel and thus should be Republicans because only the GOTP supports Israel. Nor have I found one who responds to the idea that American Jews might not support Israel or support the current operations without muttering about “self-hating Jews.”

179 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 31, 2014 4:59:10am

re: #177 Pie-onist Overlord

A Russian-speaking Israeli wingnut posted this as a rebuttal to the story about the fake conversation. Can you understand what they are talking about?

Youtube Video

180 Flounder  Jul 31, 2014 5:02:28am

David Cassidy would rather play the ponies in Saratoga Springs NY instead of being in court 45 miles away to answer for a DWI charge.

the Rensselaer County District Attorney’s Office said a particular deal has been adjourned for a former child star arrested for DWI in the Capital Region.

David Cassidy’s lawyer Lucas Mihuta was going to enter a plea deal in Schodack Town Court Wednesday night on the star’s behalf. Mihuta did not say what the terms of the deal would be.

But by Wednesday afternoon, the district attorney’s office confirmed that the deal had been adjourned

181 Pie-onist Overlord  Jul 31, 2014 5:03:29am

re: #178 Targetpractice

Haven’t found the wingnut yet who doesn’t believe that American Jews blindly support Israel and thus should be Republicans because only the GOTP supports Israel. Nor have I found one who responds to the idea that American Jews might not support Israel or support the current operations without muttering about “self-hating Jews.”

OF COURSE I support Israel because I have family who lives there. That doesn’t mean they can do no wrong. What is happening in Gaza right now is horrible and heart breaking, I don’t want that to happen to my daughter and her family, which means I don’t want it to happen to anyone else’s family.

Now, what should Israel do to protect its own citizens from depredations by Hamas?

182 Pie-onist Overlord  Jul 31, 2014 5:06:18am

re: #179 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

A Russian-speaking Israeli wingnut posted this as a rebuttal to the story about the fake conversation. Can you understand what they are talking about?

[Embedded content]

Video

Can’t watch video here, have to watch it when I get home from work.

183 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 31, 2014 5:15:28am

re: #179 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

Judging by the (pathetic) comments, it’s just a recounting of the fake, maybe even its original presentation. Not sure why she claimed that this “proves” anything.

184 Feline Fearless Leader  Jul 31, 2014 5:15:58am

re: #141 GeneJockey

I’ve always thought they might lend themselves to a proper cinematic treatment. It’s really only now they have the special effects to do it.

They should hire George RR Martin to help with the screenplay. That way the sex stays in, and more characters die.
/ (sorta)

185 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 31, 2014 5:18:56am

re: #183 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

Batsheva Nivy Lerner
this should be translated to english and sent to Fox News

Morris Podolak
For a long time I thought Obama was incredibly naive. I was wrong. He is just another anti-semite

Andrew Heineman
I don’t know what scares me more. The racism shown here or the fact that you couldn’t figure out on your own that it is fake…

ned stark
Why do you think it is fake? 

186 Feline Fearless Leader  Jul 31, 2014 5:22:33am

re: #161 Dr Lizardo

Here’s how to liven things up.

The Madmen of Mandoras, a 1963 B-film better known to audiences under an alternative title, They Saved Hitler’s Brain!, an edited version with additional footage shot in 1969 and added to the original for TV broadcast.

[Embedded content]

Delightfully silly and a B-movie classic.

A boardgame company used to issue a small set of cardboard counters annually around Christmas. Corrected counters to fix errors in games issued that year, “vanity” counters for those who were willing to pay for them, joke-y counters like a can of Whup-ass or a Mulligan counter, and also sometimes counters to support a particular variant scenario for one of their boardgames.

One game they had was on the German invasion of Leros during WW2. There was a variant scenario released later, and a special counter in the set that year, for an Allied attack - to destroy Hitler’s Brain. (Which was what the special counter was.)

187 Feline Fearless Leader  Jul 31, 2014 5:25:08am

re: #181 Pie-onist Overlord

OF COURSE I support Israel because I have family who lives there. That doesn’t mean they can do no wrong. What is happening in Gaza right now is horrible and heart breaking, I don’t want that to happen to my daughter and her family, which means I don’t want it to happen to anyone else’s family.

Now, what should Israel do to protect its own citizens from depredations by Hamas?

This, in a nutshell, is why the whole situation sucks.

188 Dr Lizardo  Jul 31, 2014 5:26:10am

re: #186 Feline Fearless Leader

A boardgame company used to issue a small set of cardboard counters annually around Christmas. Corrected counters to fix errors in games issued that year, “vanity” counters for those who were willing to pay for them, joke-y counters like a can of Whup-ass or a Mulligan counter, and also sometimes counters to support a particular variant scenario for one of their boardgames.

One game they had was on the German invasion of Leros during WW2. There was a variant scenario released later, and a special counter in the set that year, for an Allied attack - to destroy Hitler’s Brain. (Which was what the special counter was.)

Sweet. I know the edited 1969 version of the film has certainly taken its place in pop culture. I think the original 1963 version has been sort of forgotten - it’s a rather short film, clocking in at 74 minutes or so. The ‘69 version is laughable - the additional footage doesn’t even match up in terms of hairstyles or anything else; the male film school students used as actors have glorious late ’60s pornstaches!

189 Feline Fearless Leader  Jul 31, 2014 5:30:51am

Good morning Lizards!

Looks like July is going to roll out with another fairly mild day. (Low in the 60s, high in the mid-80s with tolerable humidity.) Chance of a T-storm this afternoon, but looks like the rain is waiting for the weekend.

Jared Diamond book I’m reading is now discussing religion; what it is, and where it came from. And I came across the table that I think all religious fanatics hate - the list of various myths from various religions. Once you collect them in a list they all start to look a bit silly. He also compiled a list of different definitions of what religion is from various people, Marx included - that was sort of interesting as well.

190 Higgs Boson's Mate  Jul 31, 2014 5:44:58am

From Juan Cole’s Informed Comment site:Israel Bombs Gaza back to Stone Age: Razes only Power Plant & Plunges Strip into Darkness

Israel launched a 7-hour campaign of intensive bombing of Gaza on Tuesday, destroying its only power plant. Gaza can no longer generate its own electricity. Without electricity, the water purification plants cannot operate and the drinking water ends up being mixed with sewage or salt water. Without electricity, patients on life support in the hospitals just die, even if Israel does not bomb the hospital, as it has in some instances. The power plant will take the good part of a year to rebuild even after the war ends. Gaza gets some electricity from Israel and Egypt, but many of those lines have been damaged in the fighting.

Subsequent Googling indicates that the Gaza strip may have lost up to 80% of its electric power. This seems to me to be collective punishment.

191 Rev_Arthur_Belling  Jul 31, 2014 5:58:57am

re: #190 Higgs Boson’s Mate

From Juan Cole’s Informed Comment site:Israel Bombs Gaza back to Stone Age: Razes only Power Plant & Plunges Strip into Darkness

Subsequent Googling indicates that the Gaza strip may have lost up to 80% of its electric power. This seems to me to be collective punishment.

Ugh, that’s going to be a humanitarian nightmare (moreso than it already is).

192 Amory Blaine  Jul 31, 2014 6:01:49am

Texas Republican Uses Slur in Committee Hearing

Texas Republicans claim to aim for a more inclusive party, and Greg Abbott claims to be running an inclusive campaign, yet Republicans remain as entrenched and divisive as ever.

While chairing a Texas House committee hearing yesterday, Republican State Rep. Dennis Bonnen - who is the Speaker Pro Tempore of the House - said it is easier for teachers to work with out-of-state students from Louisiana than students from Mexico because teaching “coonass in English” is easier than teaching Spanish.

193 Feline Fearless Leader  Jul 31, 2014 6:01:51am

re: #190 Higgs Boson’s Mate

From Juan Cole’s Informed Comment site:Israel Bombs Gaza back to Stone Age: Razes only Power Plant & Plunges Strip into Darkness

Subsequent Googling indicates that the Gaza strip may have lost up to 80% of its electric power. This seems to me to be collective punishment.

I guess my main question is whether the plant was specifically targeted, or was Hamas purposefully placing fighters and equipment near it - thus increasing the odds of the plant being hit by a near miss.

My take is that both sides are making borderline decisions and share the blame for citizens suffering. And the finger pointing and rhetoric can go back and forth and down for quite a few layers. While people have to hide from bombs and rockets.

194 Rev_Arthur_Belling  Jul 31, 2014 6:06:18am

re: #193 Feline Fearless Leader

My take is that both sides are making borderline decisions and share the blame for citizens suffering. And the finger pointing and rhetoric can go back and forth and down for quite a few layers. While people have to hide from bombs and rockets.

True this.

195 Targetpractice  Jul 31, 2014 6:07:57am

re: #193 Feline Fearless Leader

I guess my main question is whether the plant was specifically targeted, or was Hamas purposefully placing fighters and equipment near it - thus increasing the odds of the plant being hit by a near miss.

My take is that both sides are making borderline decisions and share the blame for citizens suffering. And the finger pointing and rhetoric can go back and forth and down for quite a few layers. While people have to hide from bombs and rockets.

It’s a large part of why I’ve avoided discussions about the matter. There really doesn’t seem to be a “good guy” this time around, just the right-wing Israel gov’t against Hamas, with Gazans stuck in the middle.

196 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Jul 31, 2014 6:09:12am

re: #192 Amory Blaine

It’s possible he’s cajun himself.

197 makeitstop  Jul 31, 2014 6:16:39am

re: #196 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

It’s possible he’s cajun himself.

Right. My dad was raised in south Louisiana and he often referred to himself as a ‘coonass,’ so I don’t find that term as offensive as maybe I should.

198 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Jul 31, 2014 6:18:17am

re: #197 makeitstop

Right. My dad was raised in south Louisiana and he often referred to himself as a ‘coonass,’ so I don’t find that term as offensive as maybe I should.

You still shouldn’t use it in congress, partially because a lot of people are only going to hear the ‘coon’ bit and partially because a lot of cajuns hate the word, even if others embrace it.

199 darthstar  Jul 31, 2014 6:18:43am

Mornin’ everyone….brace yourselves…GOP rebranding in the next post.

200 darthstar  Jul 31, 2014 6:18:50am
201 ObserverArt  Jul 31, 2014 6:19:32am

re: #162 Rev_Arthur_Belling

Chuck Todd is being the tone police again on Morning Joe. Gack, I haven’t watched this show in years, and now I remember why.

Good morning all. Looks like I missed a lot last night. I’m sort of glad, though I learned some more about torture from Obdi and Charles.

Now to the Morning Joke and Toddly.

I don’t think you can appear of Morning Joke unless you have the magical balance fairy in your pocket. I think I posted once before I have seen the same guests on Morning Joke say one thing and then say something quite different on a later MSNBC show. Mark Halperin is one of the bigger kiss-ups who will change with the program. Proof it is all entertainment with them.

Just one reason I don’t watch Joke at all any longer. The bigger reason is my complete distaste for Joke Scarborough. Dude is a self-serving, hypocritical, immature preppy bullshit artist.

202 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Jul 31, 2014 6:20:17am

re: #200 darthstar

It is rebranding: It’s racism against white people.

203 makeitstop  Jul 31, 2014 6:20:54am

re: #198 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

You still shouldn’t use it in congress, partially because a lot of people are only going to hear the ‘coon’ bit and partially because a lot of cajuns hate the word, even if others embrace it.

True.

204 darthstar  Jul 31, 2014 6:21:30am

Anybody who knows me knows I’ve been railing about the need for a border fence for a few years now…

205 Feline Fearless Leader  Jul 31, 2014 6:21:39am

re: #195 Targetpractice

It’s a large part of why I’ve avoided discussions about the matter. There really doesn’t seem to be a “good guy” this time around, just the right-wing Israel gov’t against Hamas, with Gazans stuck in the middle.

Israeli citizens as well since they’ve spent a deal of time previous and during the ground attack in Gaza going to and from shelters due to rocket attacks.

That they haven’t suffered many casualties shouldn’t diminish this. Israel is spent resources and effort trying to protect their citizens from this - and the cross-border attacks before that.

And those and the rocket attacks are a cause belli that pretty much *would* have triggered a war by now in any other part of the world. Part of the responsibilities that come with being an effective nation-state.

206 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Jul 31, 2014 6:25:42am

re: #205 Feline Fearless Leader

And those and the rocket attacks are a cause belli that pretty much *would* have triggered a war by now in any other part of the world. Part of the responsibilities that come with being an effective nation-state.

But Gaza isn’t a nation-state.

207 darthstar  Jul 31, 2014 6:30:37am

208 Higgs Boson's Mate  Jul 31, 2014 6:30:51am

re: #193 Feline Fearless Leader

My take is that both sides are making borderline decisions and share the blame for citizens suffering. And the finger pointing and rhetoric can go back and forth and down for quite a few layers. While people have to hide from bombs and rockets.

My take is that a so far tiny minority of Palestinians may have decided that death is preferable to having themselves and their descendants live as impoverished second class citizens in an Apartheid state.

This is not a justification. That decision is a very human reaction, as is the response of the Israelis.

209 Eventual Carrion  Jul 31, 2014 6:31:37am

re: #63 Rocky-in-Connecticut

[snip].

Reality need not knock on Cheney’s door. As for Bush, a complete and utter boob. Not a loon. Not some sort of evil genius. But merely a boob.

I always just saw him as a meat puppet to all the other backroom players, just as I saw Reagan. An actor reading a script written for him by his ‘betters’.

210 darthstar  Jul 31, 2014 6:33:54am

I missed the previous thread…fucking Todd…can’t stand that fucker.

211 Targetpractice  Jul 31, 2014 6:35:52am

re: #210 darthstar

I missed the previous thread…fucking Todd…can’t stand that fucker.

[Embedded content]

The impeachment talk started within months of the President taking office. This “both sides are wrong” business ignores that this shit has been brewing for years, and it’s not Democrats who have fueled the fire.

212 Feline Fearless Leader  Jul 31, 2014 6:36:23am

re: #206 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

But Gaza isn’t a nation-state.

Which I guess is part of the problem. It seems to have, or want to have, a lot of the trappings though.

213 darthstar  Jul 31, 2014 6:36:28am

This is what buying John Roberts gets you.

214 Lidane  Jul 31, 2014 6:37:56am

My surprise, etc. Apparently the ReaganBook site has been overrun by trolls:

ReaganBook shows no discernable signs of longevity. It’s already been forced to temporarily shut down, after many of its thousand plus members are trolls calling themselves things like “Albradorft Lincler,” “Al Zheimers,” and “Ben Ghazi.” The site runs tremendously slowly, and its attempts to interact with members through a messaging platform have proven fruitless. There’s hardly any involvement in thought-provoking (and clearly troll-created) pages like “Cut Dicks for Christ,” which simply says: “Calling all cut dicks.”

But a page devoted to the metal band Slayer has garnered the likes of “Dick Cheney,” “Manuel Noriega,” and “Israel.” An impressive roster of interested parties for a website that has only been around for a day.

215 Feline Fearless Leader  Jul 31, 2014 6:38:09am

re: #213 darthstar

This is what buying John Roberts gets you.

How soon until a corporation gets appointed to the Supreme Court?
///

216 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Jul 31, 2014 6:38:54am

re: #212 Feline Fearless Leader

Which I guess is part of the problem. It seems to have, or want to have, a lot of the trappings though.

It has very few of the trappings. It has no real rule of law, no functioning government (the last elections were ages ago), no ability to freely trade, etc.

What aspects does it have that are the aspects of a nation-state?

217 Targetpractice  Jul 31, 2014 6:39:24am

re: #214 Lidane

My surprise, etc. Apparently the ReaganBook site has been overrun by trolls:

Has “Iran Contra” been taken yet?

218 Targetpractice  Jul 31, 2014 6:40:15am

re: #213 darthstar

This is what buying John Roberts gets you.

[Embedded content]

American democracy, going to the highest bidder since 2010.

219 ObserverArt  Jul 31, 2014 6:41:13am

re: #204 darthstar

Anybody who knows me knows I’ve been railing about the need for a border fence for a few years now…

[Embedded content]

Sheesh…New England seems to be new New Canada.

/

220 Pie-onist Overlord  Jul 31, 2014 6:41:16am

re: #214 Lidane

My surprise, etc. Apparently the ReaganBook site has been overrun by trolls:

I wonder if this was part of their business model, and they will promise to get rid of the trolls by putting up a paywall.

221 Timothy Watson  Jul 31, 2014 6:42:05am

re: #214 Lidane

My surprise, etc. Apparently the ReaganBook site has been overrun by trolls:

Christ, do conservatives have a single original idea? Or is their whole movement to steal something from someone else and slap “conservative” or “Reagan” on it?

ReaganBook: For those that don’t want your evil liberal friends challenging you…on anything.

222 Mattand  Jul 31, 2014 6:42:22am

re: #151 Blue Fielder

Far be it from me to speak for another, but I’ll field this one. Part of it is John Gabriel’s Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory:John Gabriel’s Greater Internet F*ckwad Theory

People like him justify being wrong about everything by saying they’re “fighting groupthink”.

I think this is the problem I have with a lot of Americans’ use of the Magic Balance Fairy in politics. It’s a way to say you’re above it all; that you’re too smart to be fooled them fast-talkin’ slick lawyer types who run our country.

In KT’s case, it’s taken to a rather quite-frankly-inhuman level by trying to gauge whether torturing a human being is the same as blowing them up with a drone.

The proper human response is that you should be horrified by both, and not try to grade them in order to prove all Presidents are the same. But maybe I’m just being too liberal.

Tell you what, though: this whole exchange goes a long way towards explaining his glee at seeing OWS protesters peppersprayed and hurt.

223 Pie-onist Overlord  Jul 31, 2014 6:43:33am

Libertarians are so much TEH FREAKING STUPID.

224 HappyWarrior  Jul 31, 2014 6:44:21am

re: #214 Lidane

My surprise, etc. Apparently the ReaganBook site has been overrun by trolls:

Wait they named their social media site after Reagan? That’s not creepy at all.

225 darthstar  Jul 31, 2014 6:45:01am

re: #221 Timothy Watson

Christ, do conservatives have a single original idea? Or is their whole movement to steal something from someone else and slap “conservative” or “Reagan” on it?

ReaganBook: For those that don’t want your evil liberal friends challenging you…on anything.

Come on…bible-thumper lady only started Reaganbook for one reason - to make money. It’s okay that she failed.

226 Lidane  Jul 31, 2014 6:45:08am

re: #224 HappyWarrior

Wait they named their social media site after Reagan? That’s not creepy at all.

Named it after Reagan and used his image in their branding.

I’m amazed they haven’t been sued by his estate yet.

227 HappyWarrior  Jul 31, 2014 6:45:15am

re: #221 Timothy Watson

Christ, do conservatives have a single original idea? Or is their whole movement to steal something from someone else and slap “conservative” or “Reagan” on it?

ReaganBook: For those that don’t want your evil liberal friends challenging you…on anything.

I found some great Reaganography in my Dad’s closet. Wanna see?

228 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 31, 2014 6:46:36am

re: #222 Mattand

In KT’s case, it’s taken to a rather quite-frankly-inhuman level by trying to gauge whether torturing a human being is the same as blowing them up with a drone.

By that same perverted logic one could argue that raping these prisoners would be OK.

(death > torture => torture is OK) =>
(death > rape => rape is OK)

229 HappyWarrior  Jul 31, 2014 6:46:54am

re: #226 Lidane

Named it after Reagan and used his image in their branding.

I’m amazed they haven’t been sued by his estate yet.

Yeah pretty amazing they haven’t been sued yet. it’s like a cult when it comes to conservatives and Reagan. I actually find it sad and humorous at the same time.

230 darthstar  Jul 31, 2014 6:47:14am

re: #227 HappyWarrior

I found some great Reaganography in my Dad’s closet. Wanna see?

Debbie does Iran-Contra?

231 Amory Blaine  Jul 31, 2014 6:47:37am

Although this isn’t surprising it is depressing to witness the GOP’s absolute power in this state.
Supreme Court upholds Scott Walker Act 10 union law

The Wisconsin Supreme Court upheld Gov. Scott Walker’s signature labor legislation Thursday,delivering an election-year affirmation to the governor in just one of the three major rulings issued by the court on union bargaining, election law and same-sex couples.

In addition to ruling Walker’s labor law constitutional, on a historic daythe state’s highest court also upheld the state’s voter ID law and a 2009 law providing limited benefits to gay and lesbian couples.

Divided court upholds Wisconsin’s voter ID law

A divided state Supreme Court on Thursday ruled Wisconsin’s voter ID law is in keeping with the state constitution, but tweaked a provision of the measure so people could get identification cards without having to pay anything.

Despite Thursday’s rulings against two challenges of the law, the requirement to show photo identification at the polls remains blocked because a federal judge in April found Wisconsin’s specific law violates the U.S. Constitution and federal Voting Rights Act. That decision is now under review by the U.S. 7th Circuit Court of Appeals in Chicago. The U.S. Department of Justice on Wednesday filed a brief in support of the trial judge’s ruling.

232 HappyWarrior  Jul 31, 2014 6:48:07am

re: #230 darthstar

Debbie does Iran-Contra?

Yep.

233 Pie-onist Overlord  Jul 31, 2014 6:48:55am

re: #228 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

By that same perverted logic one could argue that raping these prisoners would be OK.

(death > torture => torture is OK) =>
(death > rape => rape is OK)

Sounds like Dawkins rape logic

234 Timothy Watson  Jul 31, 2014 6:48:59am

What’s the technical/psychology term for when someone refuses to accept any feedback besides that which reinforces what he already believes?

235 Pie-onist Overlord  Jul 31, 2014 6:49:40am

re: #234 Timothy Watson

What’s the technical/psychology term for when someone refuses to accept any feedback besides that which reinforces what he already believes?

Confirmation bias

236 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 31, 2014 6:49:49am

re: #233 Pie-onist Overlord

Sounds like Dawkins rape logic

Never heard of it.

237 Timothy Watson  Jul 31, 2014 6:50:36am

re: #235 Pie-onist Overlord

Confirmation bias

Thanks, hate it when I can’t remember a word or phrase. :)

238 darthstar  Jul 31, 2014 6:50:39am

re: #232 HappyWarrior

Yep.

Love that movie.

239 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 31, 2014 6:51:48am

re: #236 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

Never heard of it.

Never mind, already found it.

240 Mattand  Jul 31, 2014 6:51:51am

re: #228 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

By that same perverted logic one could argue that raping these prisoners would be OK.

(death > torture => torture is OK) =>
(death > rape => rape is OK)

Apparently Richard Dawkins just put his foot in his mouth again by doing that with rape: grading which forms are “worse” than others. Right out of the Todd Akins playbook.

He’s been having a bit of public short circuit over feminism in the atheist community the last few years. Between him and Sam Harris’s unapologetic Islamophobia idiocy, they’re managing to destroy what little acceptance the mainstream has granted atheists over the last few years.

241 Joanne  Jul 31, 2014 6:51:57am

re: #215 Feline Fearless Leader

How soon until a corporation gets appointed to the Supreme Court?
///

And the CEO (du jour) retains the seat for all eternity (or until which time they file bankruptcy, pull an Enron, or shutters it’s doors.

242 BongCrodny  Jul 31, 2014 6:52:14am

Morning, all.

Saw this lady last night opening for Cracker in Columbia, Missouri.

76 years old and she can still belt out a tune.

Almost as impressive may have been the early-20something year old girl standing in the front row — heavily-tattooed and nose-ringed —who knew all the lyrics to Wanda’s songs.

Wanda Jackson - The Queen of Rockabilly

243 Joanne  Jul 31, 2014 6:53:17am

re: #221 Timothy Watson

Christ, do conservatives have a single original idea? Or is their whole movement to steal something from someone else and slap “conservative” or “Reagan” on it?

ReaganBook: For those that don’t want your evil liberal friends challenging you…on anything.

I think there’s a piece about that on ConservaPedia. :-)

244 Mattand  Jul 31, 2014 6:54:06am

re: #242 BongCrodny

Morning, all.

Saw this lady last night opening for Cracker in Columbia, Missouri.

76 years old and she can still belt out a tune.

Almost as impressive may have been the early-20something year old girl standing in the front row — heavily-tattooed and nose-ringed —who knew all the lyrics to Wanda’s songs.

Wanda Jackson - The Queen of Rockabilly

There’s a Nat Geo special/doc about her from a few years ago floating around. I was completely blown away by her voice. One of those “She should be more famous than she is” cases.

245 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 31, 2014 6:54:14am

re: #239 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

KT’s rhetoric is worse. Dawkins states quite explicitly that his gradation of “badness” and “worseness” doesn’t imply acceptance of either. KT seems to derive his acceptance of torture from it being relatively better than death.

246 Teukka  Jul 31, 2014 6:56:00am

Off-topic, I know, but an update on that state aircraft which violated Swedish airspace on 7/18 that I posted about some threads back. Sources have told the Swedish newspaper Svenska Dagbladet that the aircraft violating Swedish airspace actually was a United States RC-135 SIGINT aircraft, which was chased away from the Baltic sea by Russian fighter aircraft (sic(!))

Appropriate people have been called to the Swedish Department of State to be partially digested, according to SvD’s source.


Picture Courtesy Aftonbladet

I don’t like the feeling of this at all. Not back when I thought the aircraft was Russian (and they have a history of violating Swedish airspace), not when it is aircraft from other nations being chased by Russians.

247 makeitstop  Jul 31, 2014 6:56:17am

re: #214 Lidane

My surprise, etc. Apparently the ReaganBook site has been overrun by trolls:

I was gonna sign up for trolling purposes, but it looks like a lot of people had the same idea.

The people who had that particular bright idea are way out of their league here. Smart money says they close up shop within a few weeks. LOL

248 Amory Blaine  Jul 31, 2014 6:56:45am

Wisconsin Supreme Court upholds state’s domestic partner registry

The Wisconsin Supreme Court Thursday unanimously upheld a 2009 law providing limited benefits to gay and lesbian couples.

The law established a registry system for same-sex couples to report their domestic partnerships to county clerks and in turn receive rights such as hospital visitation, medical leave and inheritance.

In 2009, Gov. Jim Doyle and Democrats then in charge of the Legislature approved the measure providing benefits to same-sex couples.

In 2010, Julaine Appling of Wisconsin Family Action — a social conservative group that four years earlier had helped push through the gay marriage ban — sued over the registries, arguing they violated the state constitution by approximating marriage.

Gov. Scott Walker and Attorney General J.B. Van Hollen, both Republicans, agreed and refused to defend the law. Defenders of the partner benefits took up the case, arguing that they stopped well short of marriage in areas such as adoption rights.

249 makeitstop  Jul 31, 2014 6:57:24am

re: #242 BongCrodny

Morning, all.

Saw this lady last night opening for Cracker in Columbia, Missouri.

76 years old and she can still belt out a tune.

Almost as impressive may have been the early-20something year old girl standing in the front row — heavily-tattooed and nose-ringed —who knew all the lyrics to Wanda’s songs.

Wanda Jackson - The Queen of Rockabilly

Love that blue Tele with the Bigsby. And the Jack Casady Gold Top bass ain’t bad, either.

250 Feline Fearless Leader  Jul 31, 2014 6:57:46am

re: #216 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

It has very few of the trappings. It has no real rule of law, no functioning government (the last elections were ages ago), no ability to freely trade, etc.

What aspects does it have that are the aspects of a nation-state?

Working from this Wikipedia page for the definitions.
en.wikipedia.org

1. Gaza has a permanent population.
2. Gaza has a defined territory.
3. Gaza has one government.* (Which appears to be Palestinian Authority trappings, but fully controlled by Hamas.)
4. It, however, doesn’t really have the ability to enter into relations with other states. Instead, it’s once again connected to the greater Palestinian Authority and then we get into the whole independent Palestinian state quagmire.

However, Gaza seems to be neither dependent on nor subject to any other power or state. Egypt washed their hands of them, and Israel unilaterally withdrew from the territory. They’re supposedly part of the Palestinian Authority territory, but de facto Hamas control pretty much has them independent of that.

You could argue dependency on Egypt or Israel for access to resources, but that’s not explicit political dependency.

How’s that for a start?

251 Pie-onist Overlord  Jul 31, 2014 6:57:58am

re: #236 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

Never heard of it.

Richard Dawkins Rape Tweet Fail

252 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 31, 2014 6:58:54am

BTW, this reminds me of the eternal debates about “who was worse” - Stalin or Hitler. Such things are subjective, but my tentative answer would be - they’re both equally evil, but Stalin is responsible for a few millions less deaths, so he can be seen, in a sense, as “less harmful”. Which is again subjective, since, obviously, Stalin’s victims would have a vastly different perspective.

253 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Jul 31, 2014 6:59:10am

re: #246 Teukka

Appropriate people have been called to the Swedish Department of State to be partially digested, according to SvD’s source.

Que?

254 ObserverArt  Jul 31, 2014 6:59:53am

re: #245 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

KT’s rhetoric is worse. Dawkins states quite explicitly that his gradation of “badness” and “worseness” doesn’t imply acceptance of either. KT seems to derive his acceptance of torture from it being relatively better than death.

The more I learn about LGF the more I begin to accept the members that contend KT types what he does for the response. A troller.

But I refuse to down-ding him, that might be the catch he fishes for.

Kinda sad really. I think he could be a good debater and add to the board.

255 Feline Fearless Leader  Jul 31, 2014 7:00:10am

re: #241 Joanne

And the CEO (du jour) retains the seat for all eternity (or until which time they file bankruptcy, pull an Enron, or shutters it’s doors.

Probably not even then. A bought-out company generally still exists within the organization that bought it - they just don’t use the purchased name and corporate identity for anything. But it’s still there buried in the paperwork.

256 lawhawk  Jul 31, 2014 7:01:02am

re: #250 Feline Fearless Leader

At best, one could consider Gaza to be a failed state, along the same lines as say Somalia, or a failing state as in Libya, Yemen, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc. Countries that have some civil function in some locations, but rule of law isn’t followed, and lawlessness is an ongoing issue, both for internal and external affairs.

257 lawhawk  Jul 31, 2014 7:02:25am

So it seems that Podhoretz didn’t delete his twitter feed after all. He’s still at it today, after calling on John Legend to just play the piano in response to Legend’s comments on world events.

258 Teukka  Jul 31, 2014 7:02:27am

re: #253 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

Que?

Some poor sod from the US embassy in town called up to the State Dept here in town, and be told by some Big Wig, maybe even Secy-State himself:
“Y U NO FOLLOW ESTABLISHED PROCEDURE TO ENTER SWEDISH AIRSPACE!”, get a letter of protest thrown at him etc.

259 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Jul 31, 2014 7:03:20am

re: #258 Teukka

I just don’t get what the word ‘digested’ means in that sentence.

260 Feline Fearless Leader  Jul 31, 2014 7:03:47am

re: #254 ObserverArt

The more I learn about LGF the more I begin to accept the members that contend KT types what he does for the response. A troller.

But I refuse to down-ding him, that might be the catch he fishes for.

Kinda sad really. I think he could be a good debater and add to the board.

I haven’t been here that long but it seems that LGF always has one (sometimes two) contrarian grumps whose behavior often turns into borderline (or outright) trolling. KT seems to have taken up the job after the last one left. And then taken it to ‘11’.

261 darthstar  Jul 31, 2014 7:04:07am
262 Mattand  Jul 31, 2014 7:04:11am

re: #254 ObserverArt

The more I learn about LGF the more I begin to accept the members that contend KT types what he does for the response. A troller.

But I refuse to down-ding him, that might be the catch he fishes for.

Kinda sad really. I think he could be a good debater and add to the board.

The only time I downdinged him was when he made a really nasty, unnecessary comment that Rachel Maddow should dress more feminine.

263 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Jul 31, 2014 7:05:01am

re: #260 Feline Fearless Leader

Nobody will ever beat Walter for his combination of obtuseness, rudeness, arrogance, petty cruelty, bullying, lying, and self-aggrandizement.

264 Alyosha  Jul 31, 2014 7:06:20am

If torture were better than death, one might naturally beg to be tortured indefinitely rather than die; a position few victims of torture would profess.

265 Teukka  Jul 31, 2014 7:06:24am

re: #259 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

I just don’t get what the word ‘digested’ means in that sentence.

‘Partially digested’ meaning it be a somewhat traumatic and embarrassing experience to be called up to Dept of State and get more than an earful.
Sorta like being nibbled on by a great white or croc.

266 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 31, 2014 7:06:44am

This thread is ripe for trolling, what with rape, Dawkins, torture, Gaza/Israel, Stalin and Hitler thrown into the mix. Anywhere else on the internets such a thread would be likely to descend into an unmanageable mess ;)

267 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Jul 31, 2014 7:07:00am

In happier news, baby skunks:

sharesloth.com

268 Feline Fearless Leader  Jul 31, 2014 7:07:10am

re: #256 lawhawk

At best, one could consider Gaza to be a failed state, along the same lines as say Somalia, or a failing state as in Libya, Yemen, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc. Countries that have some civil function in some locations, but rule of law isn’t followed, and lawlessness is an ongoing issue, both for internal and external affairs.

And all of those examples have been subject to military interventions, often spurred by neighbors, with a lot less squawking than is currently going on in regards to the Gaza Strip.

But since this is the Middle East with its convoluted history of imperialist work by European powers, proxy Cold War activities, etc. which does complicate the situation.

269 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Jul 31, 2014 7:07:50am

re: #266 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

This thread is ripe for trolling, what with rape, Dawkins, torture, Gaza/Israel, Stalin and Hitler thrown into the mix. Anywhere else on the internets such a thread would be likely to descend into an unmanageable mess ;)

I demand everyone condemn Hitler right now or obviously they’re a fascist.

270 Feline Fearless Leader  Jul 31, 2014 7:08:22am

re: #263 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

Nobody will ever beat Walter for his combination of obtuseness, rudeness, arrogance, petty cruelty, bullying, lying, and self-aggrandizement.

I was subjected to a Walter screed in response to one of my first few comments after I registered.

271 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 31, 2014 7:08:33am

re: #269 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

I demand everyone condemn Hitler right now or obviously they’re a fascist.

You didn’t demand to condemn Stalin and rape, so…

272 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Jul 31, 2014 7:08:36am

re: #268 Feline Fearless Leader

And all of those examples have been subject to military interventions, often spurred by neighbors, with a lot less squawking than is currently going on in regards to the Gaza Strip.

I don’t think you can say that Iraq and Afghanistan’s military interventions occured with less ‘squawking’ than is now going on about Gaza.

273 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Jul 31, 2014 7:09:14am

re: #271 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

You didn’t demand to condemn Stalin and rape, so…

Curses, I’ve been outed as a Stalinist rape-supporter.

(Little do they know I’m actually a Trotskyite! Haha!)

274 Joanne  Jul 31, 2014 7:09:23am

re: #267 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

In happier news, baby skunks:

sharesloth.com

That little guy who looks like a checkerboard is cool as hell. I’ve never seen coloring like that.

275 Pie-onist Overlord  Jul 31, 2014 7:11:17am

Well this happened:

I made my sandwich filling for lunch but I forgot to pack the bread.

276 HappyWarrior  Jul 31, 2014 7:11:41am

re: #270 Feline Fearless Leader

I was subjected to a Walter screed in response to one of my first few comments after I registered.

He was never that harsh to me but there was another from that period that was just silly. Don’t even know why Steve stayed around as long as he did for someone who claimed to hate politics and people into politics.

277 Pie-onist Overlord  Jul 31, 2014 7:12:07am

I could go out and buy a bag of pita bread at lunchtime but that would take too long.

278 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Jul 31, 2014 7:12:14am

re: #275 Pie-onist Overlord

Well this happened:

I made my sandwich filling for lunch but I forgot to pack the bread.

Accidental low-carb diet.

279 blueraven  Jul 31, 2014 7:12:56am

re: #245 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

KT’s rhetoric is worse. Dawkins states quite explicitly that his gradation of “badness” and “worseness” doesn’t imply acceptance of either. KT seems to derive his acceptance of torture from it being relatively better than death.

He sees torture as a moral imperative

Here comes the moral conundrum: Let’s suppose maybe one or two of those plots were foiled. How many lives saved would it take to make it worth waterboarding him? 50? 100? 1,000? 100,000? Let’s admit it, at some point there’s a moral obligation to do it.

But to buy that, you have to believe that torture actually works.

280 Pie-onist Overlord  Jul 31, 2014 7:13:53am

re: #278 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

Accidental low-carb diet.

Yeah, looks like.

281 Alyosha  Jul 31, 2014 7:15:10am

Which is where I depart from Hitchens on the definition of healthy masochism. In the debates and speeches he’s given, he incorrectly assigns to the enslavement to god that religion enforces, the term ‘masochism’. He compares fundamentalist religious observance to an existence in a totalitarian state, which, by his reckoning makes North Korea ‘better’ than the Kingdom of Heaven because at least in real life, if one must suffer as a wretched peon, one has at least has the release of death (whereas, the faithful do not).

By my surmise, at least sexual masochists have safe words and consent. Torture victims do not.

282 lawhawk  Jul 31, 2014 7:15:34am

re: #266 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

This thread is ripe for trolling, what with rape, Dawkins, torture, Gaza/Israel, Stalin and Hitler thrown into the mix. Anywhere else on the internets such a thread would be likely to descend into an unmanageable mess ;)

Challenge… ACCEPTED:

Israel is genocidally raping the people of Gaza with a Hitler-like intensity that Dawkins could only admire because it appeals to his Stalinist core in a way that tortures the facts and circumstances to such an extent that it would make Sarah Palin blush with word salad envy. /Do I have to?

283 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 31, 2014 7:17:46am

re: #279 blueraven

He sees torture as a moral imperative

But to buy that, you have to believe that torture actually works.

It’s a typical ticking clock stuff. I admit with shame that I used to cite the ticking clock scenario many years ago.

Of course, once one starts comparing the bad and the worse, where does one stop? Suppose that to make a terrorist disarm his bomb you would have to torture/rape his child in front of him. I mean, this hypothetical is as “legitimate” (or rather not) as KT’s. Now, acc. to KT’s logic doing it would be a moral obligation.

284 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Jul 31, 2014 7:22:08am

re: #283 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

Taken to it’s logical conclusion, it becomes en.wikipedia.org

285 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 31, 2014 7:23:37am

re: #283 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

Then again, one could even concede that in some situations doing an immoral thing does constitute a moral obligation in order to prevent a greater evil. That doesn’t deal with the question of responsibility though. If you have, e.g., to kill 1 innocent person to save 10, you’re still a murderer in the end, even you had to do it to fulfill a moral obligation. You still have to go to prison.

KT however seems to think that the very existence of such an alleged moral obligation frees the criminals from any legal responsibility/guilt whatsoever.

286 blueraven  Jul 31, 2014 7:23:43am

re: #283 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

It’s a typical ticking clock stuff. I admit with shame I used to cite the ticking clock scenario many years ago.

Of course, once one starts comparing the bad and the worse, where does one stop? Suppose that to make a terrorist disarm his bomb you would have to torture/rape his child in front of him. I mean, this hypothetical is as “legitimate” (or rather not) as KT’s. Now, acc. to KT’s logic doing it would be a moral obligation.

Yes, I admit to the same thinking right after 9/11. Actually there was no thinking, it was entirely emotional.

And the question was posed to John Yoo if it was acceptable to crush the testicles of a terrorist’s child…he said basically there was no legal reason a president couldn’t order such.

287 HappyWarrior  Jul 31, 2014 7:26:09am

I think I too was once guilty of believing the ticking time bomb hypothetical but as blueraven just gets at, it’s emotional thinking not thinking based in law, ethics, and reason. It’s also very easy if you believe terrorists to be “subhuman” to accept torture. What made me come around ultimately was concluding that we had and rightfully so prosecuted Axis war criminals for torture and our own guys in the past.

288 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 31, 2014 7:29:28am

re: #287 HappyWarrior

The problem with the scenario isn’t even the dilemma it poses, but rather its sheer improbability. One shouldn’t defend a controversial policy based on extremely improbable scenarios based on action flicks.

289 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Jul 31, 2014 7:29:48am

re: #285 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

It’s easy to come up with one-off circumstances where this could be true. I.e. you happen to have a rifle and you know that a person is unknowingly carrying a bomb/plague/whatever into a town and you don’t have time to go get him/you’re chained to the ground, so you shoot them.

These situations are not, however, real, or applicable to torture, because in the case of torture you can always decide to use another method. You never are like “Welp, torture is my only option”.

290 HappyWarrior  Jul 31, 2014 7:31:41am

re: #288 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

The problem with the scenario isn’t even the dilemma it poses, but rather its sheer improbability. One shouldn’t defend a controversial policy based on extremely improbable scenarios based on action flicks.

That’s part of what I figured. A lot of the conservatives I knew at the time were like TORTURE JACK BAUER 24. And then it hit me that as you point out that they were using their rationale from a TV show. You know what really did it for me though? It was and this is really interesting given how pathetic of a panderer he’s become but McCain. Well McCain and a NYT Op-ed by a recent West Point graduate serving in Afghanistan.

291 HappyWarrior  Jul 31, 2014 7:34:27am

This actually brings to mind the death penalty. My dad in his infinite efforts to play devil’s advocate with me always brings up “Well how would you react if your parent/sibling/etc was killed?” when we’re discussing the DP. He opposes it too but he brings that up. And it gets me thinking that despite all that talk I hear from rank and file conservatives and conservative pundits about how liberals are “more emotional” and conservatives use “reason and logic” that a lot of conservative ideology and policy is based on emotion. Support for the DP is largely based on emotion- see Brewer’s reaction to the bungled execution. It’s not just the DP but torture too as we’re getting at.

292 Targetpractice  Jul 31, 2014 7:34:59am

re: #289 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

It’s easy to come up with one-off circumstances where this could be true. I.e. you happen to have a rifle and you know that a person is unknowingly carrying a bomb/plague/whatever into a town and you don’t have time to go get him/you’re chained to the ground, so you shoot them.

These situations are not, however, real, or applicable to torture, because in the case of torture you can always decide to use another method. You never are like “Welp, torture is my only option”.

The “ticking bomb” scenario is a favorite because it invokes an emotional response, one that can be easily tailored for audience. But it’s always a stacked deck, there’s no time to pursue other methods besides torture, the guy you’re torturing is the only one with all the right info, and he’ll never lie to you or just babble anything he can think of to make the torture stop.

293 blueraven  Jul 31, 2014 7:35:34am

re: #288 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

The problem with the scenario isn’t even the dilemma it poses, but rather its sheer improbability. One shouldn’t defend a controversial policy based on extremely improbable scenarios based on action flicks.

I think SFZ put it best on that old thread.

You have to be 100% sure that the subject knows where the ticking bomb is.
That he will give up the correct info under torture.

These things are virtually impossible.

You have to be willing to accept total responsibility and consequences if you are wrong.

294 Self Respecting Woman Voter Against the GOP  Jul 31, 2014 7:37:35am

re: #59 Killgore Trout

Yeah, I think I can still stand behind that sentiment….

Although I haven’t been thrilled with much of Obama’s second term foreign policy I prefer the drone strikes. The few captured terrorists that Obama has imported seem to have a clear legal path unlike the Gitmo guys who are in permanent legal limbo.

Not bothered by waterboarding. WTF is wrong with you?

295 Feline Fearless Leader  Jul 31, 2014 7:37:49am

re: #292 Targetpractice

The “ticking bomb” scenario is a favorite because it invokes an emotional response, one that can be easily tailored for audience. But it’s always a stacked deck, there’s no time to pursue other methods besides torture, the guy you’re torturing is the only one with all the right info, and he’ll never lie to you or just babble anything he can think of to make the torture stop.

Plus the fact that the torturee has the information at all. That’s also an issue with the DP — are you really 100% sure you have the right guy?

296 Targetpractice  Jul 31, 2014 7:39:14am

re: #290 HappyWarrior

That’s part of what I figured. A lot of the conservatives I knew at the time were like TORTURE JACK BAUER 24. And then it hit me that as you point out that they were using their rationale from a TV show. You know what really did it for me though? It was and this is really interesting given how pathetic of a panderer he’s become but McCain. Well McCain and a NYT Op-ed by a recent West Point graduate serving in Afghanistan.

24 is torture porn, simple as that. There’s never any question that the guy Bauer is torturing is “bad,” because the writers go out of their way to show that the guy getting his teeth drilled out is the kinda guy who gets off on stomping puppies and firebombing orphanages.

297 bubba zanetti  Jul 31, 2014 7:40:57am

re: #295 Feline Fearless Leader

Plus the fact that the torturee has the information at all. That’s also an issue with the DP — are you really 100% sure you have the right guy?

And since we’re making up a fantasy scenario, why not have the terrorist have a ‘deadman’s switch’, where the info he gives out will result in an action that will give away that he’s been captured and trigger the bomb?

298 HappyWarrior  Jul 31, 2014 7:42:07am

re: #296 Targetpractice

24 is torture porn, simple as that. There’s never any question that the guy Bauer is torturing is “bad,” because the writers go out of their way to show that the guy getting his teeth drilled out is the kinda guy who gets off on stomping puppies and firebombing orphanages.

I never actually watched the show. I had enough of torture porn after I watched Hostel but that does show you why these people I knew were embracing it. They were getting a cartoon character more so than a real human being.

299 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 31, 2014 7:43:54am

re: #293 blueraven

We could tailor some scenarios too.

Suppose you have 10 innocent people divided into 2 groups, 6 persons and 4 persons. Suppose you know that both groups could die but you could save one by killing the other. The “cold hard logic” would indicate that by killing the 4 people and thus saving the 6 you have prevented a “greater evil”. Would that now mean you should go scot-free and face no charges whatsoever?

Ridiculous, but so is the “ticking bomb”.

300 Targetpractice  Jul 31, 2014 7:45:06am

re: #295 Feline Fearless Leader

Plus the fact that the torturee has the information at all. That’s also an issue with the DP — are you really 100% sure you have the right guy?

I stopped putting that question to DP supporters after awhile, because they avoid answering it. Or rather, like with torture, they adopt the argument that the ends justify the means. They’ve turned Blackstone’s formulation on its head, arguing that if 1 innocent is executed so that 10 Ted Bundys are likewise executed, then the DP is justified. After all, they argue, he went to trial and was found guilty, so the system worked.

301 Decatur Deb  Jul 31, 2014 7:46:05am

re: #277 Pie-onist Overlord

I could go out and buy a bag of pita bread at lunchtime but that would take too long.

The baker’s children have no toast.

302 Pie-onist Overlord  Jul 31, 2014 7:46:35am

re: #298 HappyWarrior

I never actually watched the show. I had enough of torture porn after I watched Hostel but that does show you why these people I knew were embracing it. They were getting a cartoon character more so than a real human being.

“24” always seemed like it was scripted by relay team, one group of writers does the first episode, then pass it off to another team, who write the second episode, who pass it off…

303 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 31, 2014 7:47:05am

re: #300 Targetpractice

There was a guy like that here at LGF. Argued that in “the war on criminals” some collateral damage was to be expected.

304 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Jul 31, 2014 7:47:27am

re: #299 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

I forget if I’ve asked you this, but have you read “Should the Numbers Count?”

An interesting exploration of the question of saving the many over the few.

305 Targetpractice  Jul 31, 2014 7:47:37am

re: #299 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

We could tailor some scenarios too.

Suppose you have 10 innocent people divided into 2 groups, 6 persons and 4 persons. Suppose you know that both groups could die but you could save one by killing the other. The “cold hard logic” would indicate that by killing the 4 people and thus saving the 6 you have prevented a “greater evil”. Would that now mean you should go scot-free and face no charges whatsoever?

Ridiculous, but so is the “ticking bomb”.

Take two boats, one full of the worst scum imaginable, the other full of innocent people. Pack each with explosives and give a detonator to those explosives to the opposite boat. Tell them that if one doesn’t blow up the other before a certain time, you’ll set them both off. Which boat should be sacrificed so that the other survives?

306 HappyWarrior  Jul 31, 2014 7:47:39am

re: #302 Pie-onist Overlord

“24” always seemed like it was scripted by relay team, one group of writers does the first episode, then pass it off to another team, who write the second episode, who pass it off…

So inconsistent? I do like Homeland.

307 BlueSpotinAL  Jul 31, 2014 7:48:07am

Making policy based on emotional response (like after 9/11) has never turned out badly. A great example is the Iraq war.

308 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 31, 2014 7:48:26am

re: #304 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

Yes, we’ve discussed the piece.

309 Targetpractice  Jul 31, 2014 7:50:25am

re: #303 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

There was a guy like that here at LGF. Argued that in “the war on criminals” some collateral damage was to be expected.

“No system is perfect” is the bit I hear, but that doesn’t stop them. Can’t let the question of whether innocent people are being executed stop them, because a mass murderer may one day accidentally get released and then people will die!

310 HappyWarrior  Jul 31, 2014 7:50:59am

What always bothered me was knowing that we had prosecuted Axis war criminals for things like torture. So, I would ask “Well what makes what we’re doing different”” Usually I got some crap answer about how since many of these guys weren’t wearing military uniforms when captured, they weren’t soldiers and thus subject to the GC. Okay but neither were WWII Resistance members who were captured and tortured by the Axis and who we later did prosecute. It all boils down to a moral relativism, another irony given this is what many of us on the left are accused of having in morals by the right much like the logic versus emotion thing talked about above.

311 Timothy Watson  Jul 31, 2014 7:52:29am

Methinks that some people commenting on 24 have never seen the program or have had their opinions clouded by the fact that conservatives liked the program.

312 Joanne  Jul 31, 2014 7:52:38am

re: #305 Targetpractice

Take two boats, one full of the worst scum imaginable, the other full of innocent people. Pack each with explosives and give a detonator to those explosives to the opposite boat. Tell them that if one doesn’t blow up the other before a certain time, you’ll set them both off. Which boat should be sacrificed so that the other survives?

Can we make it more, er, “fun” by (unbeknownst to them) giving each boat the remote for their own ticking time-bomb device?

313 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 31, 2014 7:53:18am

re: #305 Targetpractice

Take two boats, one full of the worst scum imaginable, the other full of innocent people. Pack each with explosives and give a detonator to those explosives to the opposite boat. Tell them that if one doesn’t blow up the other before a certain time, you’ll set them both off. Which boat should be sacrificed so that the other survives?

Give those TV voting thingies to the Jerry Springer audience. In the end nobody is guilty ///

314 Targetpractice  Jul 31, 2014 7:53:22am

re: #310 HappyWarrior

What always bothered me was knowing that we had prosecuted Axis war criminals for things like torture. So, I would ask “Well what makes what we’re doing different”” Usually I got some crap answer about how since many of these guys weren’t wearing military uniforms when captured, they weren’t soldiers and thus subject to the GC. Okay but neither were WWII Resistance members who were captured and tortured by the Axis and who we later did prosecute. It all boils down to a moral relativism, another irony given this is what many of us on the left are accused of having in morals by the right much like the logic versus emotion thing talked about above.

That’s because they embrace the saying about the winner(s) being the one that decide what are war crimes. Had the US lost WWII, men like LeMay would have been crucified for the firebombing campaigns in Europe and Asia.

315 Alyosha  Jul 31, 2014 7:53:29am

Sam Harris uses both the ‘ticking bomb’ scenario (culled from Dershowitz’s repertoire) as the opening part of his chapter ‘A Loophole for Torquemada?’ in his book End of Faith. Obviously the situation is too ontrived to be taken seriously, and he even brings up the plea to emotion; ‘well then, suppose it wasn’t a bomb, but your kidnapped daughter?’
Going through the motions he tries to explain how torture really isn’t so far removed in consequence from the trauma of the kind of bombings that try to produce the conclusions that a lack of raw intelligence, that which presumably furnished by coercion, can provide, simply because the act of torture, being personal and confronting is more objectionable to the individual performing the act than if he were say, a fighter bomber.
Perhaps then, he continues, we might profit from a pill that, when administered, relieves the administrator of the moral qualms raised by the victim’s agony. All hypothetical.

I was hoping for a more nuanced conclusion to the chapter when I read it back in 2006, but he does not provide one. Instead he reverts back to the reallife-Dershowitzian case of Khaleed Sheikh Mohammed and says that it might not be so terribly inconvenient for us to extract info from him, regardless of our methods.
That’s when I decided the man was best ignored.

316 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 31, 2014 7:54:22am

re: #311 Timothy Watson

Methinks that some people commenting on 24 have never seen the program or have had their opinions clouded by the fact that conservatives liked the program.

I’ve never seen it, but I read that in later seasons the writers sort of “atoned” for the earlier ones.

317 Targetpractice  Jul 31, 2014 7:54:33am

re: #312 Joanne

Can we make it more, er, “fun” by (unbeknownst to them) giving each boat the remote for their own ticking time-bomb device?

Sort of wondering why the Joker didn’t think of that in The Dark Knight, but I guess that was sort of the point. By making one boat blow up the other, he’d have the survivors stuck with the guilt of their actions.

318 Feline Fearless Leader  Jul 31, 2014 7:55:35am

re: #317 Targetpractice

Sort of wondering why the Joker didn’t think of that in The Dark Knight, but I guess that was sort of the point. By making one boat blow up the other, he’d have the survivors stuck with the guilt of their actions.

Which tells you a lot about the pathology involved.

319 Timothy Watson  Jul 31, 2014 7:56:25am

re: #317 Targetpractice

Sort of wondering why the Joker didn’t think of that in The Dark Knight, but I guess that was sort of the point. By making one boat blow up the other, he’d have the survivors stuck with the guilt of their actions.

You never know if the Joker was going to blow both of them up or not at the end even if one fulfilled his promise to blow the other up.

Remember folks, you can’t really trust the promise of an all around nutjob.

320 Amory Blaine  Jul 31, 2014 7:56:34am

re: #305 Targetpractice

I would launch my boat into the sharknado, blowing delicious flaming shark meat everywhere for all to enjoy.

321 Pie-onist Overlord  Jul 31, 2014 7:56:45am

re: #315 Alyosha

‘well then, suppose it wasn’t a bomb, but your kidnapped daughter?’

How many people did Liam Neeson murder in “Taken”? I think the final body count was in the dozens. He tortured some people too, including an innocent woman.

322 Randall Gross  Jul 31, 2014 7:57:26am

There’s some conflicting stories about the booby trapped (home? UNRWA Clinic? Former Red Cross Clinic?) making the rounds with the usual Far Right suspects stating unequivocally that it was an UNRWA Clinic. From some of the sources and stories it appears to me at least that this could be tit for tat agitprop ( e.g. the usual liars could be thinking : Israel is getting bad press for shelling UNRWA, lets’ give UNRWA and HAMAs bad press… etc.) Anyway long and short of it one of the original sources in Israel appears to be backing down to “former Red Cross Clinic with mysterious UNRWA sticker on it”.

So to gain clarity I tweeted a reporter who was in Khan Younis to look at tunnel entrances to get clarification, here’s hoping I get a reply back.

323 lawhawk  Jul 31, 2014 7:58:20am
324 Amory Blaine  Jul 31, 2014 7:59:09am

Going with my niece to State Fair today to eat stuff on sticks.

325 Joanne  Jul 31, 2014 7:59:39am

re: #317 Targetpractice

Sort of wondering why the Joker didn’t think of that in The Dark Knight, but I guess that was sort of the point. By making one boat blow up the other, he’d have the survivors stuck with the guilt of their actions.

But wouldn’t self-survival override survivor guilt if you know they were shittay people? Also, perhaps this makes me a shittay person, but a boat full of admitted jerkoffs vs a boat of innocents…given the choice, there really isn’t a discussion to be had, is there?

326 Pie-onist Overlord  Jul 31, 2014 7:59:47am

That Todd Starnes fake outrage of OMG OBAMA IS FLYING ALL TEH ILLEGALS TO HAWAII!!!!!!! is getting spammed all over TCOT.

327 Pie-onist Overlord  Jul 31, 2014 8:00:34am

re: #325 Joanne

But wouldn’t self-survival override survivor guilt if you know they were shittay people? Also, perhaps this makes me a shittay person, but a boat full of admitted jerkoffs vs a boat of innocents…given the choice, there really isn’t a discussion to be had, is there?

What if you mixed them all up, and loaded each boat with an equal number of scumbags & innocents.

328 Joanne  Jul 31, 2014 8:01:46am

re: #327 Pie-onist Overlord

What if you mixed them all up, and loaded each boat with an equal number of scumbags & innocents.

Then there is no Win. No matter what you do, you lose.

329 Targetpractice  Jul 31, 2014 8:02:06am

re: #319 Timothy Watson

You never know if the Joker was going to blow both of them up or not at the end even if one fulfilled his promise to blow the other up.

Remember folks, you can’t really trust the promise of an all around nutjob.

One of the long-running themes about the Joker is that he likes to drag people down to his level and watch them break. Blowing up the surviving boat would have defeated the point of the whole exercise if you assume he was trying to make people crack.

330 De Kolta Chair  Jul 31, 2014 8:03:02am

re: #321 Pie-onist Overlord

How many people did Liam Neeson murder in “Taken”? I think the final body count was in the dozens. He tortured some people too, including an innocent woman.

In his next flick he attempts to rescue his son, a Central Park carriage horse, who has been kidnapped by an evil cabal of Jean Reno impersonators.

331 ObserverArt  Jul 31, 2014 8:03:15am

re: #263 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

Nobody will ever beat Walter for his combination of obtuseness, rudeness, arrogance, petty cruelty, bullying, lying, and self-aggrandizement.

Ahh…Walter. I remember reading some his posts. I think he was still active when I joined. I had joined in on of Charles’ open enrollments, but I missed the confirmation email (too many dang accounts and it got past me or labeled as spam). By the time I got may account active with Charles’ help Walter was gone. As were some others.’

But I do remember Walter was a real piece of work.

332 Decatur Deb  Jul 31, 2014 8:05:15am

re: #263 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

Nobody will ever beat Walter for his combination of obtuseness, rudeness, arrogance, petty cruelty, bullying, lying, and self-aggrandizement.

Yes, but he was still fun. I miss him and several others who fell into the Village of the Damned. Gave the joint some ‘texture’.

333 Romantic Heretic  Jul 31, 2014 8:05:22am

re: #288 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

The problem with the scenario isn’t even the dilemma it poses, but rather its sheer improbability. One shouldn’t defend a controversial policy based on extremely improbable scenarios based on action flicks.

People use improbable scenarios from action flicks to defend owning firearms. Why not use it for torture? Semi-/

334 Lidane  Jul 31, 2014 8:06:46am

Completely. Useless. Douchecanoes.

House GOP Scrambles To Pass Border Crisis Bill

Short of votes to pass their border supplemental, House Republicans scrambled on Wednesday night to avoid having to go home without acting to address the crisis of some 57,000 unaccompanied minors at the southern border within the last year.

Seeking to placate conservatives, GOP leaders opted to set up a two-prong vote for Thursday. The first is on their $659 million border supplemental bill which also toughens border laws. If that passes, there’ll be a vote after that to end the Obama administration’s Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals Program, created by executive order in 2012.

The change of plan comes after Sen. Ted Cruz (R-TX) reportedly urged House conservatives to vote against any border bill that doesn’t stop the administration from enrolling any new beneficiaries under DACA, creating familiar headaches for House Republican leaders seeking to corral the votes.

335 Romantic Heretic  Jul 31, 2014 8:07:57am

re: #294 Self Respecting Woman Voter Against the GOP

Not bothered by waterboarding. WTF is wrong with you?

The other side is literally ‘the other’. Not people so ethics do not apply.

As always many people prefer excuses to guidelines.

336 Alyosha  Jul 31, 2014 8:07:58am

re: #332 Decatur Deb

Yes, but he was still fun. I miss him and several others who fell into the Village of the Damned. Gave the joint some ‘texture’.

It’s not all bad. Still got passive aggressive concern. Eh? Eh?

337 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 31, 2014 8:08:06am

re: #315 Alyosha

Taking KSM’s case as an example. He confessed under torture to have murdered Daniel Pearl. Given the torture, are we sure he did it? Moreover, some other guy was tried in Pakistan for the same murder. His lawyer used KSM’s confession to defend him. Did the forced confession help the real murderer to escape justice? Maybe KSM did it, but how would we know?

338 Pie-onist Overlord  Jul 31, 2014 8:08:14am

re: #332 Decatur Deb

Yes, but he was still fun. I miss him and several others who fell into the Village of the Damned. Gave the joint some ‘texture’.

About two years ago there was a really bad infestation of dudebros who swarmed in after Charles parted ways with the wingnuts. They mostly ended up banned or flounced by the Snowden/Greenwald escapade.

The most obnoxious one was “Destro”

339 RealityBasedSteve  Jul 31, 2014 8:08:36am

re: #324 Amory Blaine

Going with my niece to State Fair today to eat stuff on sticks.

I used to love going to the Western Washington State Fair. Plenty of ‘food on a stick’, inappropriately deep fried things, deep fried things on a stick, and SCONES!!!!

340 blueraven  Jul 31, 2014 8:09:20am

re: #332 Decatur Deb

Yes, but he was still fun. I miss him and several others who fell into the Village of the Damned. Gave the joint some ‘texture’.

He pissed me off several times and we had a few heated exchanges. He tended to get personal.

But I do kind of miss him and albusteve…but not brookly red.

341 Targetpractice  Jul 31, 2014 8:10:19am

re: #334 Lidane

Completely. Useless. Douchecanoes.

House GOP Scrambles To Pass Border Crisis Bill

Meanwhile, over at the Weekly Standard, Bill Kristol’s arguing that the GOP leadership should just let the crisis go unanswered through the elections, saying that the GOP would be better off avoiding addressing the issue because it will all fall on the President instead. There’s no “good answer,” i.e. no way to square the circle on how to fuck over Latinos without pissing them off, so the GOP should just hope that the whole thing serves as a drag on Democrats going into November.

342 De Kolta Chair  Jul 31, 2014 8:11:40am

I seem to recall that the AP was accused of colluding with the Dubya administration.

343 Romantic Heretic  Jul 31, 2014 8:11:44am

re: #299 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

We could tailor some scenarios too.

Suppose you have 10 innocent people divided into 2 groups, 6 persons and 4 persons. Suppose you know that both groups could die but you could save one by killing the other. The “cold hard logic” would indicate that by killing the 4 people and thus saving the 6 you have prevented a “greater evil”. Would that now mean you should go scot-free and face no charges whatsoever?

Ridiculous, but so is the “ticking bomb”.

From Andromeda, a SF show I sometimes enjoyed. When speaking of logic this comes to mind.

Worlds governed by artificial intelligence often learned a hard lesson: Logic Doesn’t Care. - Yin-Man Wei This Present Darkness: A History of the Interregnum - CY 11956

344 Decatur Deb  Jul 31, 2014 8:11:53am

re: #338 Pie-onist Overlord

About two years ago there was a really bad infestation of dudebros who swarmed in after Charles parted ways with the wingnuts. They mostly ended up banned or flounced by the Snowden/Greenwald escapade.

The most obnoxious one was “Destro”

Different bunch entirely, except perhaps for WUB. I’m thinking of Cato and albusteve, especially.

Other good lizards like SFZ and Mad Al just drifted quietly off.

345 Alyosha  Jul 31, 2014 8:12:07am

re: #337 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

Exactly. The ‘slam dunk’ case Harris seems to suggest KSM’s constitutes is put to the lie, not so much by the case against him (the civil case of which has been vigorously opposed by the Right) but by the very torture he was subjected to. Irony!

346 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 31, 2014 8:12:32am

re: #338 Pie-onist Overlord

About two years ago there was a really bad infestation of dudebros who swarmed in after Charles parted ways with the wingnuts. They mostly ended up banned or flounced by the Snowden/Greenwald escapade.

The most obnoxious one was “Destro”

Destro was for all intents a purposes a… well, not to completely godwin the thread, he had a totalitarian mindset.

347 Feline Fearless Leader  Jul 31, 2014 8:13:04am

re: #340 blueraven

He pissed me off several times and we had a few heated exchanges. He tended to get personal.

But I do kind of miss him and albusteve…but not brookly red.

Most comment makers are complex. They’re reasonable and/or entertaining on a lot of subjects, and will not necessarily be predictable in terms of opinion on a number of subjects. And generally also have a subject or two where things can get a bit emotional if someone starts pushing buttons.

348 Romantic Heretic  Jul 31, 2014 8:13:16am

re: #305 Targetpractice

Take two boats, one full of the worst scum imaginable, the other full of innocent people. Pack each with explosives and give a detonator to those explosives to the opposite boat. Tell them that if one doesn’t blow up the other before a certain time, you’ll set them both off. Which boat should be sacrificed so that the other survives?

Man, was the Joker disappointed with the people of Gotham.

349 Alyosha  Jul 31, 2014 8:14:36am

Irony is that I first found this site through Gen. JC Christian, circa 2004

350 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Jul 31, 2014 8:14:52am

re: #308 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

Yes, we’ve discussed the piece.

Sorry for my terrible memory.

351 HappyWarrior  Jul 31, 2014 8:15:41am

re: #341 Targetpractice

Meanwhile, over at the Weekly Standard, Bill Kristol’s arguing that the GOP leadership should just let the crisis go unanswered through the elections, saying that the GOP would be better off avoiding addressing the issue because it will all fall on the President instead. There’s no “good answer,” i.e. no way to square the circle on how to fuck over Latinos without pissing them off, so the GOP should just hope that the whole thing serves as a drag on Democrats going into November.

That’s why Kristol has never been in elected office in his life.

352 Romantic Heretic  Jul 31, 2014 8:16:21am

re: #319 Timothy Watson

You never know if the Joker was going to blow both of them up or not at the end even if one fulfilled his promise to blow the other up.

Remember folks, you can’t really trust the promise of an all around nutjob.

I loved that part where the baddest looking criminal threw the detonator out the porthole. “I may not have ethics, but I do have standards.”

353 Decatur Deb  Jul 31, 2014 8:17:37am

re: #347 Feline Fearless Leader

Most comment makers are complex. They’re reasonable and/or entertaining on a lot of subjects, and will not necessarily be predictable in terms of opinion on a number of subjects. And generally also have a subject or two where things can get a bit emotional if someone starts pushing buttons.

There seems to be a dynamic where some are driven into a corner, making statements they really don’t support with their forebrain. albusteve was hunted down by a new lizard who disappeared immediately after he imploded.

354 blueraven  Jul 31, 2014 8:18:42am

re: #353 Decatur Deb

There seems to be a dynamic where some are driven into a corner, making statements they really don’t support with their forebrain. albusteve was hunted down by a new lizard who disappeared immediately after he imploded.

ocihacosp?

355 Amory Blaine  Jul 31, 2014 8:18:57am

The morning crew was feisty.

356 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 31, 2014 8:19:39am

re: #354 blueraven

ocihacosp?

Where’s she?

357 Decatur Deb  Jul 31, 2014 8:20:09am

re: #354 blueraven

ocihacosp?

Yup. I warned her off him in her first week, while he was still jacked up on meds.

359 blueraven  Jul 31, 2014 8:20:53am

re: #356 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

Where’s she?

Just disappeared. Stopped posting.

Nasty most of the time. Relentless on DF as I recall.

360 Decatur Deb  Jul 31, 2014 8:20:57am

re: #356 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

Where’s she?

vapor

361 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 31, 2014 8:22:53am

Historians do use tortured confessions - with great care. That’s probably the only area where any of them can be of some use (not because of their forced nature, mind you, despite it).

362 HappyWarrior  Jul 31, 2014 8:23:29am

re: #358 Lidane

WTFITS:

Erik Rush: Obama Hates Christians Because Malcolm X Is His Father, Probably

[Embedded image]

This is the same guy who thinks Obama brought down the flight in Ukraine and wants to nuke American cities. Someone clearly mentally ill who instead of getting help was given a microphone.

363 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Jul 31, 2014 8:25:06am

re: #353 Decatur Deb

Albu was mean but obviously in a lot of pain on several dimensions. And lonely. I just feel bad for him, even though he was a complete and constant cockbag to me.

364 Joanne  Jul 31, 2014 8:25:10am

re: #341 Targetpractice

Meanwhile, over at the Weekly Standard, Bill Kristol’s arguing that the GOP leadership should just let the crisis go unanswered through the elections, saying that the GOP would be better off avoiding addressing the issue because it will all fall on the President instead. There’s no “good answer,” i.e. no way to square the circle on how to fuck over Latinos without pissing them off, so the GOP should just hope that the whole thing serves as a drag on Democrats going into November.

This is how the minority wins.

1) By doing nothing they achieve their goals, and

2) turn people off of politics including participation. “Why bother voting when it’s pointless? Elections only matter when republicans win.”

365 ObserverArt  Jul 31, 2014 8:25:15am

Interesting conversation about the ticking time bomb.

A little off the track, but I remember seeing Alfred Hitchcock mentioning how he used the concept of the ticking time bomb as a way to keep his audience in suspense. Tortured if you will.

He said that he would allow the audience to know where the bomb was, or who the bad guy was so that they could be tensed up knowing what was coming or about to happen. Then they would be screaming at the movie screen at the characters to get out of there…the bomb was going to go off or the killer was going to be doing his thing and there was nothing that could be done. A great way to take your audience up and down the whole time.

He also used the MacGuffin plot device to add to it all.

366 Lidane  Jul 31, 2014 8:25:58am

re: #341 Targetpractice

There’s no “good answer,” i.e. no way to square the circle on how to fuck over Latinos without pissing them off, so the GOP should just hope that the whole thing serves as a drag on Democrats going into November.

The way the GOP are choosing to handle Every. Single. Goddamn. Issue. facing them amounts to going skeet shooting at night, in the dark while wearing a blindfold. Maybe they’ll get lucky and hit something, but otherwise they’re just stumbling around shooting blindly and hurting themselves in the process.

367 Decatur Deb  Jul 31, 2014 8:27:11am

re: #363 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

Albu was mean but obviously in a lot of pain on several dimensions. And lonely. I just feel bad for him, even though he was a complete and constant cockbag to me.

Looked like he was making progress towards the end.

368 ObserverArt  Jul 31, 2014 8:27:44am

re: #324 Amory Blaine

Going with my niece to State Fair today to eat stuff on sticks.

What state? Ohio’s is ongoing and I think ends this week.

Will the stuff on the stick also be dipped in hot boiling oil?

: )

369 BeachDem  Jul 31, 2014 8:27:47am

Another take on the two boats with bombs. Just read a Greg Ile’s book with a similar scenario. Two women who had provided info to the feds about a company’s dirty dealing. They are both kidnapped and tortured, then each given a gun with one bullet and told that whichever one shoots the other gets to go home to her family and life. One will not shoot, the other does, and then, of course, the bad guys kill her as well.

370 Pie-onist Overlord  Jul 31, 2014 8:29:18am

re: #369 BeachDem

Another take on the two boats with bombs. Just read a Greg Ile’s book with a similar scenario. Two women who had provided info to the feds about a company’s dirty dealing. They are both kidnapped and tortured, then each given a gun with one bullet and told that whichever one shoots the other gets to go home to her family and life. One will not shoot, the other does, and then, of course, the bad guys kill her as well.

Which book is that? I thought I read all of Greg Iles.

371 ObserverArt  Jul 31, 2014 8:30:04am

re: #344 Decatur Deb

Different bunch entirely, except perhaps for WUB. I’m thinking of Cato and albusteve, especially.

Other good lizards like SFZ and Mad Al just drifted quietly off.

Do not forum and blogs that allow comments make great social studies?

372 Targetpractice  Jul 31, 2014 8:30:42am

re: #366 Lidane

The way the GOP are choosing to handle Every. Single. Goddamn. Issue. facing them amounts to going skeet shooting at night, in the dark while wearing a blindfold. Maybe they’ll get lucky and hit something, but otherwise they’re just stumbling around shooting blindly and hurting themselves in the process.

It’s the method to their madness. If they fuck the government up to the point that it can’t function, then they can go to the frustrated voters and say “See, we told ya that government doesn’t work, now vote for us and we’ll hand it off to somebody who will make it work,” whether it be through privatization, through “devolution” to the states, or by just dismantling the agency altogether and letting the chips fall where they may.

373 ObserverArt  Jul 31, 2014 8:32:20am

re: #362 HappyWarrior

This is the same guy who thinks Obama brought down the flight in Ukraine and wants to nuke American cities. Someone clearly mentally ill who instead of getting help was given a microphone.

What kind of drugs is Rush on? That guy is always way the hell out there…somewhere.

374 Feline Fearless Leader  Jul 31, 2014 8:32:43am

re: #369 BeachDem

Another take on the two boats with bombs. Just read a Greg Ile’s book with a similar scenario. Two women who had provided info to the feds about a company’s dirty dealing. They are both kidnapped and tortured, then each given a gun with one bullet and told that whichever one shoots the other gets to go home to her family and life. One will not shoot, the other does, and then, of course, the bad guys kill her as well.

Which is simply putting forth that the bad guys are psychopaths. They are going to kill the two women — but decide to “play” with them first and try to break them before killing them. Perhaps to prove to themselves that the women were as “bad” as they were and thus deserved their fate.

375 Decatur Deb  Jul 31, 2014 8:33:08am

re: #369 BeachDem

Another take on the two boats with bombs. Just read a Greg Ile’s book with a similar scenario. Two women who had provided info to the feds about a company’s dirty dealing. They are both kidnapped and tortured, then each given a gun with one bullet and told that whichever one shoots the other gets to go home to her family and life. One will not shoot, the other does, and then, of course, the bad guys kill her as well.

This film was on cable recently—played that kind of situation hard.

en.wikipedia.org

376 Aqua Obama  Jul 31, 2014 8:33:09am

DELICIOUS REPUBLICAN IRONY

Obama failed to stop the Islamic State when he had the chance - WPost

By Marc A. Thiessen

Marc A. Thiessen (born 1967) is an American author, columnist and political commentator, who served as a speechwriter for United States President George W. Bush (2004-2009) and Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld (2001-2004).

377 Alyosha  Jul 31, 2014 8:33:21am

I am lamenting both the fact that I wasn’t here in the ‘before time’ and that I must be abed. Adieu.

378 freetoken  Jul 31, 2014 8:33:32am

re: #366 Lidane

Still, it may not be a bad strategy.

On the whole, the Democratic party is as unclear as ever, philosophically and pragmatically, about what it means to be “Democratic party” versus Republican.

As a nation we are now too large, I think, for a unified national party with a central set of operable tenets. Long gone are the days of FDR, when a Democratic President could shape his political domain and get a nation behind him.

We are fragmented today, a nation electronically connected but emotionally distant.

There is little we can do about this too (he wrote pessimistically.)

Look at a nation like India. It’s problematic bureaucracy is well known, but in a democracy with more than a billion people it will never be able to really have top-down change. Entropy is in charge in these large systems, and borrowing a term from genetics, “drift” is pretty much what happens in these very-large democracies.

Pushing the analogy further, this political “drift” could end up with the US being very different than today but all done in incremental measures.

Vote with your dollars.

379 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 31, 2014 8:34:05am

re: #375 Decatur Deb

This film was on cable recently—played that kind of situation hard.

en.wikipedia.org

Saw that.

380 Joanne  Jul 31, 2014 8:34:19am

re: #369 BeachDem

I love Iles. I read his Mortal Fear in something like three hours and have all his books.

(I love making myself look really old. I used to chat with him on Compuserve. I SysOp’d a forum he was using for research.)

381 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 31, 2014 8:34:41am

re: #376 Aqua Obama

A well-known torture apologist.

382 CuriousLurker  Jul 31, 2014 8:35:19am

Gah! I woke up this morning to find this freak following me. WTF? His incoherent babbling doesn’t make any kind of sense, and he just has a few things that he posts over & over. Apparently he started following me shortly after I tweeted this. Must be some kind of bizarre antisemitic spambot that sniffs around for words like “Israel” and “Gaza”, ugh.

That is all—just needed to vent a little. Going back to work now….

383 BeachDem  Jul 31, 2014 8:35:53am

re: #370 Pie-onist Overlord

Brand new—“Natchez Burning”—Another Penn Cage about the Klan (and an even more spurious offshoot group). Really gory, but excellent. I love Greg Iles.

There’s also a little novella called “The Death Factory” that’s kind of a prequel to “Natchez Burning.”

384 Joanne  Jul 31, 2014 8:36:04am

re: #371 ObserverArt

Do not forum and blogs that allow comments make great social studies?

Indeed. I never read an article without reading comments (if they’re iPhone accessible). It’s all the human experience and, as a psych major, one I find completely fascinating.

385 Decatur Deb  Jul 31, 2014 8:36:08am

re: #371 ObserverArt

Do not forum and blogs that allow comments make great social studies?

That’s what got me lurking a list of political blogs around the 2012 election. Then I joined LGF, and an anthropologist shouldn’t study his own tribe.

386 Amory Blaine  Jul 31, 2014 8:36:10am

re: #368 ObserverArt

What state? Ohio’s is ongoing and I think ends this week.

Will the stuff on the stick also be dipped in hot boiling oil?

: )

Wisconsin. This might be my first stop.

Jake’s Deli Reuben On-a-stick

I believe deep frying of food on-a-stick is required by state law.

387 Pie-onist Overlord  Jul 31, 2014 8:36:19am

re: #382 CuriousLurker

Gah! I woke up this morning to find this freak following me. WTF? His incoherent babbling doesn’t make any kind of sense, and he just has a few things that he posts over & over. Apparently he started following me shortly after I tweeted this. Must be some kind of bizarre antisemitic spambot that sniffs around for words like “Israel” and “Gaza”, ugh.

That is all—just needed to vent a little. Going back to work now….

It’s an insane person. Just block & mute.

388 Feline Fearless Leader  Jul 31, 2014 8:36:20am

re: #371 ObserverArt

Do not forum and blogs that allow comments make great social studies?

It’s a voluntary community. We stay and read and comment as long as it holds our interest and is deemed worth the time, resources, and priority to take part. We change, our circumstances change, and the community itself changes. Any of which can lead to the interest waning and us wandering away to other things.

I take periodic low-interest “vacations” from reading and posting. Depends on what is going on here, or what might be drawing my interest into other uses of my time.

389 CuriousLurker  Jul 31, 2014 8:37:17am

re: #387 Pie-onist Overlord

It’s an insane person. Just block & mute.

Yeah, I blocked him right away. Some days I really hate the Twitterverse.

390 Pie-onist Overlord  Jul 31, 2014 8:39:32am

re: #383 BeachDem

Brand new—“Natches Burning”—Another Penn Cage about the Klan (and an even more spurious offshoot group). Really gory, but excellent. I love Greg Iles.

There’s also a little novella called “The Death Factory” that’s kind of a prequel to “Natches Burning.”

Great, just placed it on hold at the library.

391 BeachDem  Jul 31, 2014 8:39:42am

re: #374 Feline Fearless Leader

Which is simply putting forth that the bad guys are psychopaths. They are going to kill the two women — but decide to “play” with them first and try to break them before killing them. Perhaps to prove to themselves that the women were as “bad” as they were and thus deserved their fate.

Well, except in this story, the bad guys know that they’re bad guys and they simply don’t care how many people they kill. They just basically kill anyone who crosses them—don’t feel any need to prove that the people they kill deserve it.

392 Pie-onist Overlord  Jul 31, 2014 8:42:56am

re: #391 BeachDem

Well, except in this story, the bad guys know that they’re bad guys and they simply don’t care how many people they kill. They just basically kill anyone who crosses them—don’t feel any need to prove that the people they kill deserve it.

The bad guys in Greg Iles’ stories are the most fucked up psychopaths in any fiction I have ever read.

393 BeachDem  Jul 31, 2014 8:44:22am

re: #375 Decatur Deb

Well, that movie sounds altogether unpleasant. I believe I’ll pass.

(Did you watch it? Is it as sickening as it sounds?)

394 ObserverArt  Jul 31, 2014 8:46:18am

re: #386 Amory Blaine

Wisconsin. This might be my first stop.

Jake’s Deli Reuben On-a-stick

I believe deep frying of food on-a-stick is required by state law.

Ohhh…is The Govenor going to be about? Say hi to him from all his admirers here at LGF.

/

395 Pie-onist Overlord  Jul 31, 2014 8:49:11am

I am thinking of making this pie.

396 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 31, 2014 8:49:38am

re: #393 BeachDem

Well, that movie sounds altogether unpleasant. I believe I’ll pass.

(Did you watch it? Is it as sickening as it sounds?)

Not quite… but I suppose my standards are a bit different ;)

397 BeachDem  Jul 31, 2014 8:50:44am

re: #392 Pie-onist Overlord

The bad guys in Greg Iles’ stories are the most fucked up psychopaths in any fiction I have ever read.

So true—the man is such a good writer. I love all of his stuff—so diverse; from WW2 to supercomputers to the Klan, he can really tell a story.

398 Decatur Deb  Jul 31, 2014 8:51:02am

re: #393 BeachDem

Well, that movie sounds altogether unpleasant. I believe I’ll pass.

(Did you watch it? Is it as sickening as it sounds?)

It’s queasy-making, but keeps trying to pull the characters and audience into moral dilemmas. The ‘philanthropist’ is a cartoon of capitalism.

399 blueraven  Jul 31, 2014 8:52:45am

re: #385 Decatur Deb

That’s what got me lurking a list of political blogs around the 2012 election. Then I joined LGF, and an anthropologist shouldn’t study his own tribe.

I did the same before the 2008 election. Probably started at huffpo in 2007. The uproar over Clinton/Obama was so nasty I couldn’t handle it.

Now that site is unreadable to me. I never go there unless someone posts a link to an article.
There are a few blogs that have pretty good commentary, but holy shit ,most of them are off-the-chart insane. No real discussion; just insults, name calling and lies.

LGF is the only blog where I have actively participated, and I lurked for a good while before registration. It just feels more like a real community that actually cares, even when we all fight!

400 freetoken  Jul 31, 2014 8:52:58am

In my absence I had the displeasure of being exposed to quite a bit of current American television, mostly while on the road.

I had not had to stay much in hotels the past few years so I was unaware of what has happened to the offerings on television. While I didn’t stay in the most expensive places I didn’t stay in the cheapest either. 50 channels - most of it infomercials or extremely stupid not-quite-real Reality TV.

And FauxNews seemed to be on in most every hotel lobby. The airport lounges still seem to prefer CNN, but it was about split in the airports.

I guess the younger crowd now does everything by mobile devices so given the presence of WiFi almost everywhere the young just surf to whatever they want to find. That leaves us old-folk to turn on what we used to lovingly call the boob-toob.

Boob-toob for sure.

401 Joanne  Jul 31, 2014 8:57:16am

re: #400 freetoken

I used to travel quite a lot and you’re spot on. USA Network was often the only saving grace. That said, I could live without the tube, but I’d go insane without the internet.

402 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Jul 31, 2014 8:58:26am

re: #400 freetoken

When a TV is actually playing somewhere I am always surprised by how comically horrible the presentation of news is. It’s close to parody. Not just on Fox, either.

403 Decatur Deb  Jul 31, 2014 8:59:57am

re: #399 blueraven

I …snip

LGF is the only blog where I have actively participated, and I lurked for a good while before registration. It just feels more like a real community that actually cares, even when we all fight!

Yup. I made a list of blogs ranked L—R, and watched LGF drifting up the rankings. Didn’t join until after the ‘08 election. There are a couple blogs that are interesting enough to join, but all of them are much inferior to LGF technically. This and a little Alabama lefty blog are the only ones where I have an ID.

404 freetoken  Jul 31, 2014 9:00:56am

re: #402 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

Sitting at one airport gate I immediately noticed the volume-too-high TV screen in the gate area (full of people). As usual it was on CNN. Yet who was blabbing away? None other than the despicable Newt Gingrich. Droning on and on for what seemed an eternity.

I think most people were trying to ignore it, but a few were watching it.

You have to really hate your own humanity to listen to Newt for longer than 3 seconds.

405 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Jul 31, 2014 9:03:44am

re: #402 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

When a TV is actually playing somewhere I am always surprised by how comically horrible the presentation of news is. It’s close to parody. Not just on Fox, either.

Which is why I do not watch TV news, I get it from the Internet. And I only watch video clips when it is a matter of some dramatic event. Otherwise, I want to take time to read various viewpoints and sources.

406 BeachDem  Jul 31, 2014 9:05:18am

re: #380 Joanne

I love Iles. I read his Mortal Fear in something like three hours and have all his books.

(I love making myself look really old. I used to chat with him on Compuserve. I SysOp’d a forum he was using for research.)

That is cool—about your chatting. You can definitely tell that he does a lot of research on his books.

I’ll make myself look even older—I was around when Compuserve got started and did some work with their initial advertising.

407 Lidane  Jul 31, 2014 9:05:23am
408 ObserverArt  Jul 31, 2014 9:05:24am

re: #395 Pie-onist Overlord

I am thinking of making this pie.

Mmmmm. Black Berries. I used to go berry picking with my father and the berries would always be turned into a pie or ice cream topping by my mother.

And you can never ever go wrong with Strawberries…especially locally grown and ripened naturally.

I wonder what a pie without the custard and just both berries would be like?

Have a nice afternoon all…time to dig down into some php form code. Business is starting to pick up. My new portfolio web site seems to be helping. I may have a nice 8-12 page brochure design for a local printer’s client going. That’s a good thing.

409 HappyWarrior  Jul 31, 2014 9:06:05am

re: #407 Lidane

Who does Karl Rove think he’s fooling?

Karl Rove: Utter ‘Nonsense’ Republicans Want To Impeach Obama

Just like Obama winning Ohio, right Karl?

410 Targetpractice  Jul 31, 2014 9:06:29am

re: #407 Lidane

Who does Karl Rove think he’s fooling?

Karl Rove: Utter ‘Nonsense’ Republicans Want To Impeach Obama

Rove up to what he does best, allowing the base to do the heavy lifting while he claims to be “above” it all.

411 blueraven  Jul 31, 2014 9:06:40am

re: #403 Decatur Deb

Yup. I made a list of blogs ranked L—R, and watched LGF drifting up the rankings. Didn’t join until after the ‘12 election. There are a couple blogs that are interesting enough to join, but all of them are much inferior to LGF technically. This and a little Alabama lefty blog are the only ones where I have an ID.

Wait…you joined in Oct. 2009. Just before I did.

412 Decatur Deb  Jul 31, 2014 9:08:20am

re: #411 blueraven

Wait…you joined in Oct. 2009. Just before I did.

Yep, sorry—right election sequence, wrong date. Corrected that one, too late for the other comment.

413 Lidane  Jul 31, 2014 9:08:31am

re: #386 Amory Blaine

I believe deep frying of food on-a-stick is required by state law.

I’m pretty sure that’s a law on the books here in Texas. Maybe.

I’d be willing to bet there’s at least one law here mandating that brisket be prepared with a dry rub, in a smoker, with either mesquite or hickory wood and the barbecue sauce served on the side.

414 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 31, 2014 9:08:44am

rove rove rove your party
gently down the drain
merrily merrily merrily merrily
no one needs a brain

415 ObserverArt  Jul 31, 2014 9:09:19am

re: #407 Lidane

Who does Karl Rove think he’s fooling?

Karl Rove: Utter ‘Nonsense’ Republicans Want To Impeach Obama

The fools!

(Saw this as I was catching up before logging out.)

416 Joanne  Jul 31, 2014 9:09:23am

re: #406 BeachDem

It’s sad when I think about how long ago that was. I was reading yesterday’s thread where people were talking about their firsts (PC, modem, etc.) and I kept thinking, Yup. Yup. Yup.

417 blueraven  Jul 31, 2014 9:09:56am

re: #412 Decatur Deb

Yep, sorry—right election sequence, wrong date.

I remembered you from my lurking days.

418 Joanne  Jul 31, 2014 9:10:09am

re: #407 Lidane

Who does Karl Rove think he’s fooling?

Karl Rove: Utter ‘Nonsense’ Republicans Want To Impeach Obama

The people who relentlessly repeat anything GOP? :-)

419 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Jul 31, 2014 9:10:11am

re: #413 Lidane

I’m pretty sure that’s a law on the books here in Texas. Maybe.

I’d be willing to bet there’s at least one law here mandating that brisket be prepared with a dry rub, in a smoker, with either mesquite or hickory wood and the barbecue sauce served on the side.

I saw a report on a girl who went to the Texas state fair and sampled everything they had to offer on a stick…it came to around 40,000 calories’ worth…a month’s worth.

420 blueraven  Jul 31, 2014 9:12:03am

re: #414 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

rove rove rove your party
gently down the drain
merrily merrily merrily merrily
no one needs a brain

nor heart, nor courage…

421 Dr. Matt  Jul 31, 2014 9:12:09am

Teabagging RWNJs have been screeching for Obama’s impeachment for over 5 years, yet this is the Democrats fault? Fucking idiots.

422 Pie-onist Overlord  Jul 31, 2014 9:12:14am

I had Libertarian Derping at me about this meme because it doesn’t include “Mandatory” (mostly Social Security) spending, which can’t be changed without passing a new law.
They really, really want to get their paws on Social Security.

423 Decatur Deb  Jul 31, 2014 9:14:19am

re: #406 BeachDem

That is cool—about your chatting. You can definitely tell that he does a lot of research on his books.

I’ll make myself look even older—I was around when Compuserve got started and did some work with their initial advertising.

Got a Black Dragon t-shirt around here somewhere.

424 Bear  Jul 31, 2014 9:15:15am

I think the TV “news” stopped being news about the time it changed from the half hour format to the hour one.

425 Dr. Matt  Jul 31, 2014 9:16:15am

When will the librul media compile the countless audio and video clips of GOPTP politicians calling for Obama’s impeachment?

426 Decatur Deb  Jul 31, 2014 9:16:20am

re: #424 Bear

I think the TV “news” stopped being news about the time it changed from the half hour format to the hour one.

“Goodnight, Chet.”

427 wrenchwench  Jul 31, 2014 9:16:48am

re: #426 Decatur Deb

“Goodnight, Chet.”

“Goodnight, David.”

428 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Jul 31, 2014 9:17:02am

re: #422 Pie-onist Overlord

also point out that that slice of military pie is still larger than the military pie slices of the rest of the world put together.

429 Joanne  Jul 31, 2014 9:17:23am

re: #421 Dr. Matt

Teabagging RWNJs have been screeching for Obama’s impeachment for over 5 years, yet this is the Democrats fault? Fucking idiots.

This. (Just because it deserved repeating.)

430 ausador  Jul 31, 2014 9:21:57am

I’ll just leave this physics fail here…

If the Bible isn’t God-inspired, explain why how the writer of the Book of Job knew 3,000 years ago that “The earth hangs upon nothing” (Job 26:7).

It wasn’t until thousands of years later that science discovered that gravity doesn’t exist in space, and that this massive earth does indeed hang upon nothing.* - - Ray Comfort on Facebook

*[Emphasis added]

431 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Jul 31, 2014 9:23:33am

re: #430 ausador

I don’t have any issue with the Bible being “God-inspired”, I just have trouble with it being the True and Literal Word of God.

But there is no point trying to argue that point with these people…

432 wrenchwench  Jul 31, 2014 9:23:48am

re: #257 lawhawk

So it seems that Podhoretz didn’t delete his twitter feed after all. He’s still at it today, after calling on John Legend to just play the piano in response to Legend’s comments on world events.

According to Legum, he undeleted it.

433 Dr. Matt  Jul 31, 2014 9:24:05am

re: #430 ausador

How exactly does ,”The earth hangs upon nothing” = gravity doesn’t exist in space?

434 freetoken  Jul 31, 2014 9:24:36am

California breaks drought record as 58% of state hits driest level

Around here I see fruit trees barely hanging on to life. It probably won’t rain for another 4 months at least.

435 BeachDem  Jul 31, 2014 9:26:32am

re: #416 Joanne

Little side story—Jeff Wilkins of Compuserve is still so highly regarded.

bizjournals.com

Kills me—when he went on to Metatec, he screwed over a whole boatload of people—investors and suppliers. I have only been stiffed twice in my long freelance career; once by Metatec and the other time by a “highly regarded” political consultant.

436 Lidane  Jul 31, 2014 9:26:46am

Wait, what? I thought Steve King wanted to immediately deport these kids. Now he’s talking about tent cities:

Steve King: Build Tent City To House Child Migrants

BTW, Steve — there are already tenements all along the border. They’re called colonias. Most of the people living there are American citizens who will never escape the crushing poverty that keeps them there.

437 makeitstop  Jul 31, 2014 9:27:24am

Jim Wright’s new post on Stonekettle is a barn-burner, as usual.

Six years. Six fucking years of birth certificates and fake social security numbers and the imminent End of Days and Biblical Antichrists and teleprompters and FEMA death camps and secret reeducation centers and 911 truthiness and supposed gayness and Michelle’s sex change and Black Panthers and Tea Parties and Communists and Nazis and Socialists and Arabs and gun grabbing and Israel hating and death panels and painting over Old Glory on Air Force one and killing his own ambassadors and killing Breitbart and killing the kids at Sandy Hook and killing the soldiers at Fort Hood (twice) and NOT killing bin Laden and spilling oil in the Gulf of Mexico and HAARPing himself up a hurricane to punish New Jersey and disappearing Malaysian airliners and ordering IRS outrages and alien reptile lizards from the 4th Dimension and Sharia Law and, well, it just goes on and on and on.

Honestly, at this point, you’d be hard pressed to find something, anything, that Obama hasn’t been accused of. By the ugly tentacled face of Dread Cthulhu, Folks, if Obama was even one tenth the evil mastermind these people have made him out to be, he would have herded us all into the ovens long ago.

Six years they’ve been telling us Obama is going to destroy America. And every year it gets louder and more shrill and more strident and more panicked and more desperately insane.

And yet - and yet - far from an America destroyed, our nation has steadily improved day by day, month after month, year after year during the entirety of Obama’s Administration. We are better off here in the United States than we have ever been and better off than nearly anywhere else on the planet.

His point is an excellent one - despite every effort of the GOTP, Fox News and every nutjob blog in the world, Obama is succeeding - and they have to ramp up the Impeachment Machine because they’re running out of time before Obama’s term is over and he’s been a net success.

Also, driftglass.

438 freetoken  Jul 31, 2014 9:28:16am
“”Surveying [men’s] bodies … God has been most gracious to me,” says consecrated virgin.”

Hmmm…

Consecrated virgins descend on Philadelphia

439 Stanley Sea  Jul 31, 2014 9:29:10am

re: #434 freetoken

California breaks drought record as 58% of state hits driest level

Around here I see fruit trees barely hanging on to life. It probably won’t rain for another 4 months at least.

My succulents are barely hanging on.

441 De Kolta Chair  Jul 31, 2014 9:29:12am

re: #430 ausador

I’ll just leave this physics fail here…

*[Emphasis added]

But does he agree with Tara Reid that “You know, [a Sharnado] actually can happen. I mean, the chances of it happening are very rare, but it can happen actually. Which is crazy.”

442 Decatur Deb  Jul 31, 2014 9:29:18am

re: #433 Dr. Matt

How exactly does ,”The earth hangs upon nothing” = gravity doesn’t exist in space?

He’s got us there, Clem.

443 Dr. Matt  Jul 31, 2014 9:31:03am

re: #438 freetoken

Hmmm…

Consecrated virgins descend on Philadelphia

Break out the peach schnapps!

444 Joanne  Jul 31, 2014 9:31:15am

re: #437 makeitstop

Boy. You forget all the insanity. That was…sad. Really fucking sad.

445 Romantic Heretic  Jul 31, 2014 9:31:55am

re: #407 Lidane

Who does Karl Rove think he’s fooling?

Karl Rove: Utter ‘Nonsense’ Republicans Want To Impeach Obama

They don’t want to impeach him, really.

But The Secret Service keeps them from exercising their first choice.

446 Lidane  Jul 31, 2014 9:32:20am

Oh hey. Did you know that God created the borders of the United States?

The more you know, I guess.

447 Dr. Matt  Jul 31, 2014 9:33:35am

re: #437 makeitstop

I must have missed this meme: “painting over Old Glory on Air Force one”.

448 makeitstop  Jul 31, 2014 9:35:24am

re: #444 Joanne

Boy. You forget all the insanity. That was…sad. Really fucking sad.

And Wright is better at encapsulating it than just about anyone I’ve ever seen try.

The good news is he’s officially retired now, so I’m hoping his blog output increases. We need him.

449 makeitstop  Jul 31, 2014 9:36:58am

re: #447 Dr. Matt

I must have missed this meme: “painting over Old Glory on Air Force one”.

Snopes link. False, as usual.

450 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Jul 31, 2014 9:37:28am

I just got an email entitled “A message to procrastinators”.

I’ll read it later.

451 Backwoods_Sleuth  Jul 31, 2014 9:38:15am

re: #448 makeitstop

And Wright is better at encapsulating it than just about anyone I’ve ever seen try.

The good news is he’s officially retired now, so I’m hoping his blog output increases. We need him.

He’s writing a book!
Yay!

452 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Jul 31, 2014 9:39:09am

re: #436 Lidane

Wait, what? I thought Steve King wanted to immediately deport these kids. Now he’s talking about tent cities:

Steve King: Build Tent City To House Child Migrants

BTW, Steve — there are already tenements all along the border. They’re called colonias. Most of the people living there are American citizens who will never escape the crushing poverty that keeps them there.

Because they have minimal skills and make a minimal contribution to the workplace and therefore deserve only minimum wage!!!

/

453 Lidane  Jul 31, 2014 9:39:49am

re: #437 makeitstop

Jim Wright’s new post on Stonekettle is a barn-burner, as usual.

I love this paragraph:

Tell me, given the last six years, why shouldn’t Democrats, why shouldn’t President Obama, expect anything other than lunacy from Paul Ryan and his fellow Tea Partiers? After all, they’ve been calling for Obama’s impeachment since the day he was sworn in. Hell, a significant fraction of the crowd that Ryan runs with has vocally and repeatedly called for the President to be dragged from the Oval Office and hung from the nearest lamppost. Ridiculous? In a political party made up of Birthers, Truthers, religious nutters, revolutionaries, extremists, bigots, conspiracy theorists, rustlers, cut throats, murderers, bounty hunters, desperados, mugs, pugs, thugs, nitwits, halfwits, dimwits, vipers, snipers, con men, Indian agents, Mexican bandits, muggers, buggerers, bushwhackers, hornswogglers, horse thieves, bull dykes, train robbers, bank robbers, ass-kickers, shit-kickers and Methodists, you go right ahead and tell me when it gets too fucking ridiculous, won’t you?

Using Blazing Saddles to make a point about the GOP is always awesome.

And he’s right.

454 freetoken  Jul 31, 2014 9:40:00am

re: #446 Lidane

We can embed Soundcloud:


SoundCloud

455 Joanne  Jul 31, 2014 9:40:28am

re: #438 freetoken

Hmmm…

Consecrated virgins descend on Philadelphia

There’s something very…troubling? Disturbing? Weird? I can’t even get the right word - about being married to a guy who has been dead for a couple millennia. If you replaced Jesus with anything else (Thorh or Khufa, for example), they’d be in the outermost fringes if society.

I’m not meaning to demean a religion (which I realize this comes off as), but really? This is one of the reasons why I have such a hard time taking religion seriously.

456 RealityBasedSteve  Jul 31, 2014 9:40:33am

re: #430 ausador

I’ll just leave this physics fail here…

*[Emphasis added]

Ray Comfort would be a great gay porn name. /just_saying….

It’s a pity that he confuses not being noticeable with not-existing. I could say “RC has NO Brain”, but that would (probably) be incorrect, it’s just that the effect is so small that it’s not normally noticeable.

The Bible is science exactly the same way that Linneaus’ Systema Naturae is theology.

RBS

457 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Jul 31, 2014 9:40:58am

re: #446 Lidane

Oh hey. Did you know that God created the borders of the United States?

The more you know, I guess.

The GOP has gone from being a party where you could say stuff like this and still get elected to being a party where you have to say stuff like this to get elected.

458 Joanne  Jul 31, 2014 9:41:22am

re: #440 Lidane

WTFITS:

Rick Scarborough: God Would Be Perfectly Justified In Nuking America Over Gay Ambassadors​

And this is another reason why I have such a hard time taking religion seriously.

459 Feline Fearless Leader  Jul 31, 2014 9:41:27am

re: #404 freetoken

Sitting at one airport gate I immediately noticed the volume-too-high TV screen in the gate area (full of people). As usual it was on CNN. Yet who was blabbing away? None other than the despicable Newt Gingrich. Droning on and on for what seemed an eternity.

I think most people were trying to ignore it, but a few were watching it.

You have to really hate your own humanity to listen to Newt for longer than 3 seconds.

When I take my car to the dealership repair shop and wait there for the inspection or repair the TV there is usually on a local station doing inane morning shows or something. First opportunity I get when I’m the only person in the waiting room I just turn the TV off. I have a book or laptop with me in any case.

460 Lidane  Jul 31, 2014 9:42:08am

re: #454 freetoken

Problem is, at work I can’t access any of it. No Twitter, no FB, nothing considered entertainment, etc. The filters are pretty tight around here. I”m just glad I can still access LGF and some other sites, since theyr’e considered news and information.

461 Dr. Matt  Jul 31, 2014 9:43:18am

re: #453 Lidane

I love these sentences:

“When John McCain speaks he sounds exactly like what he is, a garrulous grumpy old man whose hemorrhoid medication isn’t up to the task of keeping his asshole in check.”

and

“The GOP wasn’t even a little bit happy with their candidate [ John McCain], but, barring a stroke brought on by an extended bout of cloud shouting, at that point they were stuck with him.”

462 freetoken  Jul 31, 2014 9:43:46am

Here is the NT passage to which I think King is referring:

biblegateway.com

Theocracy, indeed.

463 RealityBasedSteve  Jul 31, 2014 9:44:49am

re: #440 Lidane

WTFITS:

Rick Scarborough: God Would Be Perfectly Justified In Nuking America Over Gay Ambassadors​

God needs nukes? I thought it was just “Smite” and it was done. Of course, he’s a lot older now then before, so maybe the nukes are his version of the ‘little blue pill’?

464 darthstar  Jul 31, 2014 9:46:32am

Well, this explains the leaning tower of Pisa…

465 lawhawk  Jul 31, 2014 9:47:45am

re: #463 RealityBasedSteve

Excuse me, what does god need with a nuke? /Kirk

Youtube Video

466 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 31, 2014 9:49:23am

re: #436 Lidane

Wait, what? I thought Steve King wanted to immediately deport these kids. Now he’s talking about tent cities:

Steve King: Build Tent City To House Child Migrants

And when Obama does just that, the wingnuts will accuse him of building a concentration camp for children.

467 freetoken  Jul 31, 2014 9:49:49am

BTW, if someone would dare to ask King, if he believes that passage is to be taken literally, what to make of the original:

26 εποιησεν τε εξ ενος παν εθνος ανθρωπων κατοικειν επι παντος προσωπου της γης ορισας προστεταγμενους καιρους και τας οροθεσιας της κατοικιας αυτων

I’m pretty sure that εθνος cannot be translated into the modern “state” but really means “nation” as in “ethnic”.

Thus a good interviewer would ask King if he believes that different ethnos ought to intermarry? How can we keep the ethnos within a geography if different ethnos interbreed?

468 Amory Blaine  Jul 31, 2014 9:55:20am

re: #413 Lidane

Any other way would be heresy.

469 RealityBasedSteve  Jul 31, 2014 9:55:39am

re: #466 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

And when Obama does just that, the wingnuts will accuse him of building a concentration camp for children.

Well, that will make it easier to do those medical experiments.

RBS

470 lawhawk  Jul 31, 2014 9:58:04am

BWHAHA

471 Joanne  Jul 31, 2014 9:58:26am

re: #459 Feline Fearless Leader

When I take my car to the dealership repair shop and wait there for the inspection or repair the TV there is usually on a local station doing inane morning shows or something. First opportunity I get when I’m the only person in the waiting room I just turn the TV off. I have a book or laptop with me in any case.

My dealer had Fox News on. I didn’t turn it off, I changed the channel. I wasn’t watching the tv but I just had to turn that off. Doocey, et al, are deleterious to sagacity.

472 klys  Jul 31, 2014 10:02:07am

Things you think you really shouldn’t have to say when you don’t have children:

“Stop sticking the cat’s tail in my ear!”

473 Pie-onist Overlord  Jul 31, 2014 10:04:28am
474 wrenchwench  Jul 31, 2014 10:05:29am
475 wrenchwench  Jul 31, 2014 10:09:09am

re: #473 Pie-onist Overlord

[Embedded content]

First comment there:

Probably gang affiliated, like all violence. Will the business community speak out against their cultural problem? Where are the parents in all this?

Too soon for humor, but maybe not for insightful snarky commentary. OK, it’s a fine line.

476 Pie-onist Overlord  Jul 31, 2014 10:09:12am
477 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 31, 2014 10:09:55am

Speaking of the NT.

In the case of OAO Neftyanaya Kompaniya Yukos v. Russia,
The European Court of Human Rights (Former First Section), sitting as a
Chamber composed of:
Christos Rozakis, President,
Dean Spielmann,
Nina Vajić,
Khanlar Hajiyev,
Sverre Erik Jebens,
Giorgio Malinverni, judges,
Andrey Bushev, ad hoc judge,
and Søren Nielsen, Section Registrar,
Having deliberated in private on 24 June 2014,
Delivers the following judgment, which was adopted on that date:

It was God’s will //

478 Joanne  Jul 31, 2014 10:10:51am

Wow. Someone took some time.

479 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 31, 2014 10:10:51am

re: #476 Pie-onist Overlord

[Embedded content]

Will anybody here listen? Wanna know his Russia talking points.

480 wrenchwench  Jul 31, 2014 10:11:05am

re: #476 Pie-onist Overlord

[Embedded content]

This is the torture thread, but I think I’ll skip Glenn/Ronan.

481 RealityBasedSteve  Jul 31, 2014 10:12:22am

re: #472 klys

Things you think you really shouldn’t have to say when you don’t have children:

“Stop sticking the cat’s tail in my ear!”

You have a husband correct?… I’ve been told that there is a lot of behavioral overlap there with kids.

RBS

482 CuriousLurker  Jul 31, 2014 10:13:06am

Well, it looks like Muslims are now disliked on a par with atheists.

How Americans Feel About Religious Groups
Jews, Catholics & Evangelicals Rated Warmly, Atheists and Muslims More Coldly

Jews, Catholics and evangelical Christians are viewed warmly by the American public. When asked to rate each group on a “feeling thermometer” ranging from 0 to 100 - where 0 reflects the coldest, most negative possible rating and 100 the warmest, most positive rating - all three groups receive an average rating of 60 or higher (63 for Jews, 62 for Catholics and 61 for evangelical Christians). And 44% of the public rates all three groups in the warmest part of the scale (67 or higher).

Buddhists, Hindus and Mormons receive neutral ratings on average, ranging from 48 for Mormons to 53 for Buddhists. The public views atheists and Muslims more coldly; atheists receive an average rating of 41, and Muslims an average rating of 40. Fully 41% of the public rates Muslims in the coldest part of the thermometer (33 or below), and 40% rate atheists in the coldest part. […]

pewforum.org

Even more good news (for the haters & professional Islamophobes), courtesy of the most recent Zogby poll:

American Attitudes Toward Arabs and Muslims: 2014

Conducted on June 27-29, 2014, American Attitudes Toward Arabs and Muslims, provides a critical update on the Arab American Institute’s polling in 2010 and 2012 tracking identical issues. Taken in context, the 2014 poll indicates a persistent trend of increasingly negative attitudes by Americans towards the Arab and Muslim communities. […]

aaiusa.org

What Islamophobia? It’s just apologia & political correctness run amok. //

*SIGH*

483 klys  Jul 31, 2014 10:13:43am

re: #481 RealityBasedSteve

You have a husband correct?… I’ve been told that there is a lot of behavioral overlap there with kids.

RBS

That would be my observation, yes.

484 Pie-onist Overlord  Jul 31, 2014 10:14:31am

re: #481 RealityBasedSteve

You have a husband correct?… I’ve been told that there is a lot of behavioral overlap there with kids.

RBS

Raising 9 kids was a walk in the park compared to living with one crabby, slobby, disabled old man.

485 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 31, 2014 10:16:02am

...

486 freetoken  Jul 31, 2014 10:17:17am

re: #482 CuriousLurker

And still, Cthulhu is not honored.

487 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 31, 2014 10:17:31am

re: #485 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

On second thought, deleted because too graphic.

Here it is, nevertheless:

twitter. com/AndrijUKR/status/494858122817961984

488 HappyWarrior  Jul 31, 2014 10:19:32am

re: #482 CuriousLurker

Well, it looks like Muslims are now disliked on a par with atheists.

Even more good news (for the haters & professional Islamophobes), courtesy of the most recent Zogby poll:

What Islamophobia? It’s just apologia & political correctness run amok. //

*SIGH*

It’s frustrating how it’s gotten worse since 9/11. But remember CL, the hardest thing it is to be in modern America is a white straight conservative Christian male.//

489 sagehen  Jul 31, 2014 10:19:42am

re: #476 Pie-onist Overlord

[Embedded content]

He says the reason Snowdon won’t come back is because he won’t be allowed to use justification as his defense at trial, so it wouldn’t be a fair trial.

490 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 31, 2014 10:20:07am

re: #488 HappyWarrior

It’s frustrating how it’s gotten worse since 9/11. But remember CL, the hardest thing it is to be in modern America is a white straight conservative Christian male.//

Poor f’n victims.

491 freetoken  Jul 31, 2014 10:21:11am
492 HappyWarrior  Jul 31, 2014 10:21:42am

re: #490 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

Poor f’n victims.

And Obama is building camps for all them.

493 HappyWarrior  Jul 31, 2014 10:21:58am

re: #491 freetoken

People don’t like to change.

For example:

Survey Reveals Over Half Of Organizations Are Still Running Windows XP

I can believe that.

494 Pie-onist Overlord  Jul 31, 2014 10:22:04am

re: #489 sagehen

He says the reason Snowdon won’t come back is because he won’t be allowed to use justification as his defense at trial, so it wouldn’t be a fair trial.

WHUT

495 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 31, 2014 10:22:44am

re: #491 freetoken

In their defense, XP is just good.

496 Pie-onist Overlord  Jul 31, 2014 10:23:12am
497 Kragar  Jul 31, 2014 10:24:53am

re: #496 Pie-onist Overlord

[Embedded content]

What a douchebag

498 wrenchwench  Jul 31, 2014 10:25:15am

I noticed this late yesterday:

499 Dr. Matt  Jul 31, 2014 10:25:20am

re: #491 freetoken

People don’t like to change.

For example:

Survey Reveals Over Half Of Organizations Are Still Running Windows XP

Americans would update their OS only If taxes were lower and Obamacare was repealed.

////

500 Lidane  Jul 31, 2014 10:25:25am

SO tempted to Godwin this, but I’ll let these nutbars speak for themselves:

Jim Gilchrist Sympathizes With Caller Who Wants To Gas Child Migrants To Death

“We need to put them in a prison camp or a building and not give them any help, just lock them up with arms behind them, or otherwise we are going to put them in a building and gas them to death like they did in Germany, we can’t put up with this,” the caller said.

After host Vic Eliason chided the caller for her remarks, Gilchrist said he sympathized with her “angst” and “anger” at the “mob of illegal aleins.” He thanked the caller and commended her for sharing her beliefs, claiming that her call to kill the immigrants was simply a metaphor.

THEY’RE TALKING ABOUT CHILDREN. WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK.

These people are deranged.

501 Backwoods_Sleuth  Jul 31, 2014 10:26:15am

re: #489 sagehen

He says the reason Snowdon won’t come back is because he won’t be allowed to use justification as his defense at trial, so it wouldn’t be a fair trial.

Sue he can use “justification” for a defense.
It won’t do him any good, but nobody would stop him.
:D

502 Kragar  Jul 31, 2014 10:27:35am

re: #500 Lidane

SO tempted to Godwin this, but I’ll let these nutbars speak for themselves:

Jim Gilchrist Sympathizes With Caller Who Wants To Gas Child Migrants To Death

THEY’RE TALKING ABOUT CHILDREN. WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK.

These people are deranged.

I’ll bet if you asked them, the caller would describe themselves as a “good christian”

503 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 31, 2014 10:27:43am

re: #498 wrenchwench

zombietime was widely used during the Russian homophobic campaign. I hope Zombie is glad that he served as Putin’s pawn.

504 Targetpractice  Jul 31, 2014 10:28:13am

re: #491 freetoken

People don’t like to change.

For example:

Survey Reveals Over Half Of Organizations Are Still Running Windows XP

I’m running Win 7 only because it came with the computer I bought and I liked it enough that I didn’t downgrade back to XP. There’s no way in hell I’d upgrade to Win 8 and I’d say that’s the norm because Microsoft has already signaled most everything hated about it will be dropped in Win 9 due out next year.

505 lawhawk  Jul 31, 2014 10:28:28am

re: #495 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

In their defense, XP is just good enough.

FTFY.

People really don’t want to shell out the money for the upgraded OS, so they stick with the older one, even though it’s got enough vulnerabilities big enough to drive a truck through.

506 sagehen  Jul 31, 2014 10:29:03am

re: #496 Pie-onist Overlord

[Embedded content]

If Hamas wants better coverage on American networks, perhaps they could make their leadership available to the media.

Israel’s spokespeople aren’t just any random sympathizer who wants to market themselves as such — it’s the PM and the Ambassador and former ambassadors and retired Mossad/Shin Bet people…

(why is nobody discussing the idea that gee, if you don’t want Israel waging war with massive collateral damage to get at Hamas, if you think they should take all possible opportunities to avoid civilian deaths… maybe they could go back to the targeted assassinations of Hamas leadership that was apparently “unfair” when they tried doing it that way?)

507 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 31, 2014 10:29:30am

re: #500 Lidane

That’s how it always begins, with vague proposals.

508 wrenchwench  Jul 31, 2014 10:32:44am

re: #500 Lidane

SO tempted to Godwin this, but I’ll let these nutbars speak for themselves:

Jim Gilchrist Sympathizes With Caller Who Wants To Gas Child Migrants To Death

THEY’RE TALKING ABOUT CHILDREN. WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK.

These people are deranged.

He was close pals with murderer Shawna Forde before she went and killed a little girl and her father. Considers himself ‘fooled’ by her. Or says so to cover his ass, anyway. For him to encourage this rhetoric after that experience goes so far past egregious I can’t even see it.

509 danarchy  Jul 31, 2014 10:33:56am

re: #491 freetoken

People don’t like to change.

For example:

Survey Reveals Over Half Of Organizations Are Still Running Windows XP

I have lots of clients who still have one or two XP machines around. Usually it is tied to a piece of lab equipment that would cost tens of thousands of dollars to upgrade or replace and that won’t work with newer versions of windows. You do your best to keep the machines segregated, off the network entirely if possible, otherwise you lock down to just the absolutely necessary ports and IPs and keep your fingers crossed. Even clients for whom that isn’t the case have the one XP machine around running a version of legacy software so they can get at archives of accounting data or something that never got migrated to a new platform.

510 jaunte  Jul 31, 2014 10:33:57am

re: #500 Lidane

claiming that her call to kill the immigrants was simply a metaphor

What crap.

511 RealityBasedSteve  Jul 31, 2014 10:34:23am

re: #491 freetoken

People don’t like to change.

For example:

Survey Reveals Over Half Of Organizations Are Still Running Windows XP

I did a private class earlier this year. Company was migrating from XP / Office 2003 to Win 8 / Office 2013. I had 2 half-day sessions to teach all their office folks how to adapt. (and no, there wasn’t a power user in the batch). Lets just say that I earned my pay that day.

RBS

512 GeneJockey  Jul 31, 2014 10:35:33am

re: #482 CuriousLurker

Well, it looks like Muslims are now disliked on a par with atheists.

Welcome to the bottom rung of popularity, where it’s okay for people to make your beliefs into a slur, and to insist that your kind can’t be Real Americans.

513 freetoken  Jul 31, 2014 10:36:48am
514 nsmith25  Jul 31, 2014 10:36:55am
515 Pie-onist Overlord  Jul 31, 2014 10:37:53am

DERP

516 freetoken  Jul 31, 2014 10:37:59am

There’s probably an analogy in there for our contemporary American political society.

517 jaunte  Jul 31, 2014 10:38:58am

re: #515 Pie-onist Overlord

Many diseases had a low incidence rate in US & some parents chose not 2 vaccinate

And of course no one ever took a vacation or traveled for business overseas.

518 Kragar  Jul 31, 2014 10:39:00am

re: #515 Pie-onist Overlord

DERP

[Embedded content]

519 freetoken  Jul 31, 2014 10:40:28am

re: #518 Kragar

Looking at his twitter stream, he’s a barely closeted white supremacist.

520 RealityBasedSteve  Jul 31, 2014 10:40:33am

re: #512 GeneJockey

Welcome to the bottom rung of popularity, where it’s okay for people to make your beliefs into a slur, and to insist that your kind can’t be Real Americans.

CL is Irish?

Youtube Video

RBS

521 wrenchwench  Jul 31, 2014 10:43:12am

re: #519 freetoken

Looking at his twitter stream, he’s a barely closeted white supremacist.

There’s a vaccine for that too. Education.

522 Pie-onist Overlord  Jul 31, 2014 10:43:29am

re: #519 freetoken

Looking at his twitter stream, he’s a barely closeted white supremacist.

WHAT A SHITBAG

523 blueraven  Jul 31, 2014 10:43:34am

re: #496 Pie-onist Overlord

[Embedded content]

I wouldn’t call Wolf Blitzer a spokesman for Israel, but he did something pretty awful the other day.

One of the CNN reporters in Gaza was talking about a child who had been killed. You could tell he was pretty emotional and he decided to talk to the kids friend and asked him to tell him about the kid who died.

The reporter started to relay the story…”kid liked soccer, good in school” etc.
Blitzer, very curtly interrupted him and said something to the effect that “we need to move on” and asked him another question.

524 freetoken  Jul 31, 2014 10:44:20am

re: #521 wrenchwench

There’s a vaccine for that too. Education.

Well, that is often prescribed but it doesn’t work as well as promised.

There are many extremely well educated and literate people who are the most hard right of racists.

525 Charles Johnson  Jul 31, 2014 10:44:28am
526 GeneJockey  Jul 31, 2014 10:44:56am

re: #522 Pie-onist Overlord

WHAT A SHITBAG

[Embedded content]

And how can poor people complain about lack of money for food when there are all those rats freely available for the catching?

527 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 31, 2014 10:45:13am

re: #525 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Of course it is.

528 freetoken  Jul 31, 2014 10:45:49am

re: #526 GeneJockey

Speaking of poor people and food, today Frum demonstrates once again today that he’s reverting to the same old playbook.

529 Targetpractice  Jul 31, 2014 10:46:20am

re: #525 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

That’s like asking if anyone wants to bet that the Sun will rise in the east tomorrow.

530 GeneJockey  Jul 31, 2014 10:46:37am

re: #528 freetoken

Speaking of poor people and food, today Frum demonstrates once again today that he’s reverting to the same old playbook.

I thought he was trying to present himself as a sane Republican?

531 Feline Fearless Leader  Jul 31, 2014 10:46:39am

re: #520 RealityBasedSteve

CL is Irish?

[Embedded content]

RBS

Never heard of Musselmen Irish? Fie!
;P

532 wrenchwench  Jul 31, 2014 10:47:01am
533 RealityBasedSteve  Jul 31, 2014 10:47:34am

re: #525 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Actually, looks like there is an ELEMENT of truth to it.


The U.S. embassy has stopped issuing regular visas and cut ongoing services to U.S. citizens, after downsizing its staff due to the security situation.

The embassy issued a statement saying that it will only issue visas for emergencies and after a thorough investigation of each applicant.
yourjewishnews.com

534 Kid A  Jul 31, 2014 10:48:04am
535 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 31, 2014 10:48:17am

re: #525 Charles Johnson

Apparently he took it from the Kahanist (i.e. neofascist) Arutz Sheva: israelnationalnews. com/News/News.aspx/183533

536 Pie-onist Overlord  Jul 31, 2014 10:48:26am

re: #525 Charles Johnson

Anyone want to bet this is another Jim Hoft lie? RT @gatewaypundit: WHOA! Obama Halts Visa Applications From Israel

Dim Jim cites Arutz Sheva. Can’t find it anywhere else.

537 jaunte  Jul 31, 2014 10:48:39am

re: #525 Charles Johnson

From PJ Media:

SECOND UPDATE 11 Apr 2010 10:45 PDT: PJ Media has received corrections on the translation; the original says some Israelis from Dimona have had their visas denied, rather than all.

538 Kragar  Jul 31, 2014 10:48:47am

re: #522 Pie-onist Overlord

WHAT A SHITBAG

[Embedded content]

“Why should I be forced to pay for someone else’s allergy meds? They should just stay inside all the time!”

539 Joanne  Jul 31, 2014 10:48:50am

re: #478 Joanne

Paged.

540 Pie-onist Overlord  Jul 31, 2014 10:49:11am

re: #533 RealityBasedSteve

Actually, looks like there is an ELEMENT of truth to it.

YourJewishNews is an aggregator, probably got that from Arutz Sheva.

541 Stanley Sea  Jul 31, 2014 10:49:18am
542 GeneJockey  Jul 31, 2014 10:49:50am

re: #531 Feline Fearless Leader

Never heard of Musselmen Irish? Fie!
;P

Oddly enough, my Dad used to work for a guy named Musselman. He was Mennonite. In fact all the Musselmans I’ve ever known were Mennonite.

And they make good applesauce.

543 lawhawk  Jul 31, 2014 10:49:52am

re: #525 Charles Johnson

Half truth (the link is to the official US Dept. State. Embassy in Tel Aviv).

Due to the current security situation in Tel Aviv, U.S. Embassy Tel Aviv remains open but is operating at reduced staffing until further notice, and has canceled routine visa application processing and American Citizen services. Emergencies involving an American citizen and visa applications will be considered on a case by case basis. If you had a scheduled visa appointment, you will receive an email informing you of the appointment cancellation, and another email with a new scheduled appointment. If the appointment is not convenient for you, you may reschedule your appointment through the scheduling system. You are not required to pay a new fee. We will update the website and our facebook on any developments. To ask for an emergency appointment, please email NIVTelAviv@state.gov (for visas) or AMCTelAviv@state.gov (for U.S. Citizens Services) and explain the nature of your emergency. We will respond to your email quickly with additional instructions.

544 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 31, 2014 10:50:14am

To restrict as a matter of staffing/security is not the same as to halt for political motives. An obvious lie.

545 Charles Johnson  Jul 31, 2014 10:50:42am

Here’s the US embassy’s statement - they’re short-staffed due to the security situation and have temporarily suspended visa processing.

American Citizen Services | Embassy of the United States

Due to the current security situation in Tel Aviv, U.S. Embassy Tel Aviv remains open but is operating at reduced staffing until further notice, and has canceled routine visa application processing and American Citizen services. Emergencies involving an American citizen and visa applications will be considered on a case by case basis. If you had a scheduled visa appointment, you will receive an email informing you of the appointment cancellation, and another email with a new scheduled appointment. If the appointment is not convenient for you, you may reschedule your appointment through the scheduling system. You are not required to pay a new fee. We will update the website and our facebook on any developments. To ask for an emergency appointment, please email NIVTelAviv@state.gov (for visas) or AMCTelAviv@state.gov (for U.S. Citizens Services) and explain the nature of your emergency. We will respond to your email quickly with additional instructions.

546 freetoken  Jul 31, 2014 10:50:52am

re: #530 GeneJockey

I thought he was trying to present himself as a sane Republican?

I think he’s just looking for a job now, and is cuddling up to Paul Ryan.

547 Charles Johnson  Jul 31, 2014 10:51:58am

Hoft’s idiot partner Andrew Marcus: WHOA! Obama Halts Visa Applications From Israel | the Gateway Pundit

No Jews Allowed

Democrats have a Jewish problem:

US Embassy in Tel Aviv Severely Restricts Visas for Israelis

Tourist visa process cancelled until further notice, embassy announces.

From the Obama State Dept:

“Due to the current security situation in Tel Aviv, U.S. Embassy Tel Aviv remains open but is operating at reduced staffing until further notice, and has canceled routine visa application processing and American Citizen services,” the statement says. “Emergencies involving an American citizen and visa applications will be considered on a case by case basis.”

Progressives are not 100% on Israel’s side.

h/t US_Patriot1776

548 bubba zanetti  Jul 31, 2014 10:51:59am

re: #454 freetoken

We can embed Soundcloud:

Oh wow, let’s get the party started then:


SoundCloud

549 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Jul 31, 2014 10:52:10am

re: #545 Charles Johnson

Here’s the US embassy’s statement - they’re short-staffed due to the security situation and have temporarily suspended visa processing.

American Citizen Services | Embassy of the United States

That’s the same as tossing Israel to the Mooslim dogs.

/

550 Pie-onist Overlord  Jul 31, 2014 10:52:50am
551 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 31, 2014 10:53:00am

re: #547 Charles Johnson

Because everybody knows only Jews live in Israel!/

552 GeneJockey  Jul 31, 2014 10:53:27am

re: #546 freetoken

I think he’s just looking for a job now, and is cuddling up to Paul Ryan.

I remember around the 2012 election he felt the need to publish a “Why I’m Still A Republican” piece. He couldn’t let go of the belief that the economy lives or dies based on rich people being happy.

553 ausador  Jul 31, 2014 10:53:40am

re: #533 RealityBasedSteve

Actually, looks like there is an ELEMENT of truth to it.

israel.usembassy.gov

Due to the current security situation in Tel Aviv, U.S. Embassy Tel Aviv remains open but is operating at reduced staffing until further notice, and has canceled routine visa application processing and American Citizen services. Emergencies involving an American citizen and visa applications will be considered on a case by case basis.

555 freetoken  Jul 31, 2014 10:54:41am

Shooting immigrants seems to be getting popular:

Greek farmers charged with shooting migrants freed

The tea partying hate-right in this country appears to be embracing the tactics of the European hate-right.

556 jaunte  Jul 31, 2014 10:55:34am
557 sagehen  Jul 31, 2014 10:56:18am

re: #522 Pie-onist Overlord

WHAT A SHITBAG

[Embedded content]

For the umpyumpth time… these people must have the weirdest, creepiest marriages imaginable.

558 Feline Fearless Leader  Jul 31, 2014 10:56:48am

re: #513 freetoken

This happened:

Giraffe Dies After Smashing Head On Low Highway Bridge In South Africa

Movies predicting reality? IIRC, that happened in The Hangover III.

559 Timothy Watson  Jul 31, 2014 10:57:20am

re: #515 Pie-onist Overlord

DERP

[Embedded content]

I feel a need to apologize, as a Virginian, for that shitbag.

Seeing his shit plastered across the Virginia blogosphere back in 2009-10 is one reason for my political realignment.

560 Targetpractice  Jul 31, 2014 10:57:41am

And like that, Boehner’s latest gamble has flopped.

561 jaunte  Jul 31, 2014 10:58:21am

re: #482 CuriousLurker

Well, it looks like Muslims are now disliked on a par with atheists.

562 Kragar  Jul 31, 2014 10:58:33am
563 Feline Fearless Leader  Jul 31, 2014 10:59:34am

re: #560 Targetpractice

And like that, Boehner’s latest gamble has flopped.

So Ted Cruz is de facto Speaker of the House now?

564 Kragar  Jul 31, 2014 10:59:55am

re: #561 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Saw that earlier

565 Varek Raith  Jul 31, 2014 11:00:26am

re: #554 Rightwingconspirator

LOL!

Yeah, I’m past being ‘diplomatic’ with AGW deniers.

566 HappyWarrior  Jul 31, 2014 11:00:26am

re: #547 Charles Johnson

Hoft’s idiot partner Andrew Marcus: WHOA! Obama Halts Visa Applications From Israel | the Gateway Pundit

Democrats have a Jewish problem? Big words from a man who belongs to a party that has zippo Jewish legislators and I’m pretty sure zero governors either.

567 Targetpractice  Jul 31, 2014 11:00:30am

re: #563 Feline Fearless Leader

So Ted Cruz is de facto Speaker of the House now?

Ayep. Boehner seems to have decided that gambling on this turning out in the GOP’s favor is a better choice that asking a single Democrat so support the bill.

568 HappyWarrior  Jul 31, 2014 11:02:24am

re: #564 Kragar

Saw that earlier

[Embedded content]

Well if you’re a fan of sports, two of the greatest centers of all time in basketball. Or if you’re enjoying viral videos on YouTube, one of YouTube’s cofounders is a Muslim.

569 lawhawk  Jul 31, 2014 11:02:37am

re: #562 Kragar

If you’re among the anti-vaxxers or religious right who think that vaccinations aren’t right, it’s a personal choice or religious belief to not vaccinate your kid or yourself against an easily avoidable disease. But these same folks will then worry endlessly about whether a migrant from Central America is vaccinated? Because they might get infected?

Here’s a clue. If you want to avoid problems, get yourself and your family vaccinated. Ignore the anti-vaxxer nonsense. That way you protect yourself and your family - and everyone else you come in contact with (via herd immunity) including those who can’t get vaccinated because of ailment, age, or infirmity.

570 Charles Johnson  Jul 31, 2014 11:04:45am
571 Pie-onist Overlord  Jul 31, 2014 11:04:50am

So wingnuts are admitting they want to get rid of Social Security.

572 RealityBasedSteve  Jul 31, 2014 11:05:33am

re: #569 lawhawk

If you’re among the anti-vaxxers or religious right who think that vaccinations aren’t right, it’s a personal choice or religious belief to not vaccinate your kid or yourself against an easily avoidable disease. But these same folks will then worry endlessly about whether a migrant from Central America is vaccinated? Because they might get infected?

Here’s a clue. If you want to avoid problems, get yourself and your family vaccinated. Ignore the anti-vaxxer nonsense. That way you protect yourself and your family - and everyone else you come in contact with (via herd immunity) including those who can’t get vaccinated because of ailment, age, or infirmity.

Besides, if you rely on “Herd Immunity” you are actually taking from those people who got vaccinated and now are responsible for protecting your health because you just want to be a taker.

RBS
obvious sarc intended

573 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Jul 31, 2014 11:05:33am

If you think that your President is a tyrant dreaming of letting the infected hordes in and you still haven’t got your children vaccinated, who’s to blame?

574 jaunte  Jul 31, 2014 11:06:21am

Maybe Chuck Todd will lend the president his magic wand.

575 Targetpractice  Jul 31, 2014 11:06:59am

re: #571 Pie-onist Overlord

So wingnuts are admitting they want to get rid of Social Security.

[Embedded content]

“Non-discretionary spending”? Like the $1t that we’ve taken on in debt to fund two wars?

576 Feline Fearless Leader  Jul 31, 2014 11:07:36am

re: #574 jaunte

Maybe Chuck Todd will lend the president his magic wand.

It’s Obama’s fault since they can’t trust him, remember?
////

577 Pie-onist Overlord  Jul 31, 2014 11:07:48am

re: #575 Targetpractice

“Non-discretionary spending”? Like the $1t that we’ve taken on in debt to fund two wars?

No that’s “Discretionary Spending”

578 Targetpractice  Jul 31, 2014 11:07:49am

re: #574 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Maybe Chuck Todd will lend the president his magic wand.

The President’s expected to roll over and give the House GOTP whatever their hearts demand. He’s not expected to actually get anything he wants, because that’s not the way “compromise” works.

579 RealityBasedSteve  Jul 31, 2014 11:08:02am

re: #570 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Because apparently the GOP bill lacked the autonomous laser firing turrets and ‘spanish-accent sensitive’ land mine belts in the tea party plan.

RBS

580 Lidane  Jul 31, 2014 11:08:23am

re: #563 Feline Fearless Leader

So Ted Cruz is de facto Speaker of the House now?

TED CRUZ IS THE PREZNIT. WE JUST HAVE TO GET TEH BLAH GUY OUT OF THE WHITE HOUSE FIRST.

/Tea Party

581 Joanne  Jul 31, 2014 11:08:56am

Aw!!

11 Dogs who learned they should not eat bees…the hard way.

Poor lambs!

582 Feline Fearless Leader  Jul 31, 2014 11:09:49am

re: #578 Targetpractice

The President’s expected to roll over and give the House GOTP whatever their hearts demand. He’s not expected to actually get anything he wants, because that’s not the way “compromise” works.

Took Obama the first couple of years of his administration to learn that lesson. And by then the GOP had enough in the Senate to fully stonewall things there in addition to a larger House majority.

583 Lidane  Jul 31, 2014 11:09:52am

I have left over 70 voice mails today. WTF. Is everyone just on vacation this week or what?

584 freetoken  Jul 31, 2014 11:10:32am

re: #583 Lidane

I have left over 70 voice mails today. WTF. Is everyone just on vacation this week or what?

They’ve all been carted off to the camps.

585 Feline Fearless Leader  Jul 31, 2014 11:10:49am

re: #581 Joanne

Aw!!

11 Dogs who learned they should not eat bees…the hard way.

Poor lambs!

I guess they were drop-outs from the training for hounds that shoot bees from their mouths when they bark.

586 RealityBasedSteve  Jul 31, 2014 11:11:17am

re: #581 Joanne

Aw!!

11 Dogs who learned they should not eat bees…the hard way.

Poor lambs!

I don’t know….Number 10 looks like he’s thinking “I’ll eat them so hard next time they won’t get to sting me”. The rest are all “Oh… bad idea… nope, not again”, but not 10.

RBS

587 jaunte  Jul 31, 2014 11:11:42am
588 RealityBasedSteve  Jul 31, 2014 11:12:35am

re: #583 Lidane

I have left over 70 voice mails today. WTF. Is everyone just on vacation this week or what?

hey guys… if Lidane calls, pretend you’re out…. we’ll drive him crazy.

RBS

589 Lidane  Jul 31, 2014 11:12:39am

Ready! Fire! Aim!

McDaniel: MS GOP ‘Prohibited’ From Giving Cochran Nomination By Its Own Rules

This has been the funniest shit ever. Please proceed.

591 lawhawk  Jul 31, 2014 11:14:18am

re: #583 Lidane

I have left over 70 voice mails today. WTF. Is everyone just on vacation this week or what?

That’s what you get for calling Congress on the day before they go on a 5-week vacation.

592 Mattand  Jul 31, 2014 11:16:17am

re: #482 CuriousLurker

Well, it looks like Muslims are now disliked on a par with atheists.

Even more good news (for the haters & professional Islamophobes), courtesy of the most recent Zogby poll:

What Islamophobia? It’s just apologia & political correctness run amok. //

*SIGH*

I’d say “Welcome to the club”, but it’s really not a fun club to be a member of. The few times I’ve copped to being atheist, it’s drawn nothing but dirty looks, anger, and one of instance of being told I was what’s wrong with America.

593 Targetpractice  Jul 31, 2014 11:16:45am

re: #587 jaunte

[Embedded content]

Once again, Boehner’s begging the President to save him from his own caucus. You can be sure that the President announced tomorrow that he was canning his plans to expand deferments and instead ordering maximum deportations, Boehner would be one of the first to pat him on the back.

594 blueraven  Jul 31, 2014 11:17:09am

re: #587 jaunte


Oh My God, the irony, the incompetence. It is staggering.
I hope Obama slams them all summer with this.

595 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Jul 31, 2014 11:17:22am

And Boehner had to pull the Bill regarding the border issue. Ted Cruz strikes again.

596 GeneJockey  Jul 31, 2014 11:17:49am

re: #566 HappyWarrior

Democrats have a Jewish problem? Big words from a man who belongs to a party that has zippo Jewish legislators and I’m pretty sure zero governors either.

Conservatives can never understand why it is that Teh Juice don’t hate Democrats as much as they do, even as they defenstrate the last Jewish Republican in Congress.

597 jaunte  Jul 31, 2014 11:17:56am

Bucket of Crabs Caucus.

598 Mattand  Jul 31, 2014 11:18:18am

re: #560 Targetpractice

And like that, Boehner’s latest gamble has flopped.

[Embedded content]

Jesus Christ, it’s like watching an orange Wile E. Coyote, only with the power to fuck over the entire nation.

599 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance  Jul 31, 2014 11:18:48am
600 jaunte  Jul 31, 2014 11:19:02am
601 Targetpractice  Jul 31, 2014 11:19:16am

Yes folks, you’re reading that right: The Speaker who says the President doesn’t have the authority to ignore laws that Congress has passed is begging the President to ignore the law that Congress passed six years ago.

602 Joanne  Jul 31, 2014 11:20:11am

re: #598 Mattand

Jesus Christ, it’s like watching an orange Wile E. Coyote, only with the power to fuck over the entire nation.

That’s exactly why I said:

re: #364 Joanne

This is how the minority wins.

1) By doing nothing they achieve their goals, and

2) turn people off of politics including participation. “Why bother voting when it’s pointless? Elections only matter when republicans win.”

603 lawhawk  Jul 31, 2014 11:21:04am

The House GOP excuses begin to flow. Obama made them do it.

Ummm, the GOP claims this is a disaster in progress. The President proposed a $3.8 billion solution. The GOP response? Pare it down to $700 million. And even then, they couldn’t get consensus in their own caucus that this was the right thing to do.

So, they’re now going to blame Obama for not doing anything when they couldn’t agree among themselves what to do. They’ll project all kinds of issues on to the President, including that he’d just use EOs to shift their appropriations around anyways - but that’s a cop out.

They’ve given no money to fix anything. It means 1) the problem was never as bad as claimed; 2) the appearance of a problem was more important than actually addressing it; 3) they think that the GOP gains benefit from doing nothing and casting the President as the reason there’s no immigration reform or border control.

This is the same projection technique that the GOP tried with GOP shutdown (and one that the GOP’s own House Speaker Boehner admitted was the result of the GOP caucus choosing shutdown over a functioning government because they thought it would harm the President politically more than them - ignoring the damage done to the economy in the process).

604 Lidane  Jul 31, 2014 11:21:44am

re: #598 Mattand

Jesus Christ, it’s like watching an orange Wile E. Coyote, only with the power to fuck over the entire nation.

Wile E. Coyote is smarter and more competent.

605 GeneJockey  Jul 31, 2014 11:22:09am

re: #569 lawhawk

If you’re among the anti-vaxxers or religious right who think that vaccinations aren’t right, it’s a personal choice or religious belief to not vaccinate your kid or yourself against an easily avoidable disease. But these same folks will then worry endlessly about whether a migrant from Central America is vaccinated? Because they might get infected?

Here’s a clue. If you want to avoid problems, get yourself and your family vaccinated. Ignore the anti-vaxxer nonsense. That way you protect yourself and your family - and everyone else you come in contact with (via herd immunity) including those who can’t get vaccinated because of ailment, age, or infirmity.

“I have religious objections to vaccination, so I won’t vaccinate my children, but I insist EVERYONE ELSE has to!”

If you don’t believe vaccinations are important, how can you complain that others aren’t vaccinated?

If you believe vaccinations are important, how can you leave your children unvaccinated and just hope that everyone else is more responsible?

606 Feline Fearless Leader  Jul 31, 2014 11:22:52am

re: #599 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

oh and more craters are appearing in Siberia releasing more methane

Dammit! Plant fewer soybeans! Can’t you tell that Gaia is getting a bad case of gas!
////

607 GeneJockey  Jul 31, 2014 11:23:47am

re: #571 Pie-onist Overlord

So wingnuts are admitting they want to get rid of Social Security.

[Embedded content]

We aren’t in debt BECAUSE OF Social Security. We’re in debt TO Social Security.

608 GeneJockey  Jul 31, 2014 11:24:33am

re: #572 RealityBasedSteve

Besides, if you rely on “Herd Immunity” you are actually taking from those people who got vaccinated and now are responsible for protecting your health because you just want to be a taker.

RBS
obvious sarc intended

Why sarc? Seems pretty straightforward to me.

609 Feline Fearless Leader  Jul 31, 2014 11:25:00am

re: #607 GeneJockey

We aren’t in debt BECAUSE OF Social Security. We’re in debt TO Social Security.

Don’t worry they can just borrow a page from the Corporate CEO (or Christie) rule book - throw the pensions out the window and tell the elderly to learn to live in the real world.
//

610 HappyWarrior  Jul 31, 2014 11:25:18am

re: #596 GeneJockey

Conservatives can never understand why it is that Teh Juice don’t hate Democrats as much as they do, even as they defenstrate the last Jewish Republican in Congress.

They really think their support for Israel, a term that should be used loosely here since it’s not really support since it’s based in doomsday fantasies is enough to win over American Jews to their side.

611 ObserverArt  Jul 31, 2014 11:27:42am

re: #491 freetoken

People don’t like to change.

For example:

Survey Reveals Over Half Of Organizations Are Still Running Windows XP

Shoot. I still draw with pencils and paint with brushes. And sometimes I even listen to classical music like Bach.

///

612 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Jul 31, 2014 11:28:06am

re: #579 RealityBasedSteve

Because apparently the GOP bill lacked the autonomous laser firing turrets and ‘spanish-accent sensitive’ land mine belts in the tea party plan.

RBS

Won’t work against Guatemalans who speak in their native Indio dialects…

613 Feline Fearless Leader  Jul 31, 2014 11:29:22am

re: #612 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

Won’t work against Guatemalans who speak in their native Indio dialects…

Sounds like we’ll have to build large robotic sentinels in order to detect and keep the immigrants out.
//

614 GeneJockey  Jul 31, 2014 11:29:44am

re: #610 HappyWarrior

They really think their support for Israel, a term that should be used loosely here since it’s not really support since it’s based in doomsday fantasies is enough to win over American Jews to their side.

I blindly support every policy of the Israeli Government, as long as it won’t lead to peace! Why don’t you like me? What is it with you people?

615 Rightwingconspirator  Jul 31, 2014 11:39:06am

New Page up, all about picasa the free photo management and processing software.

I have two terabytes of images and a few videos scattered over three drives, Picasa manages them all with aplomb.

616 Teukka  Jul 31, 2014 11:54:52am

re: #599 Brother Holy Cruise Missile of Mild Acceptance

oh and more craters are appearing in Siberia releasing more methane

Another one? Not good. Not good at all. Especially since environmental monitoring stations seem to have picked up WTF? levels of methane around the same time these have formed (speaking against them being pingos (the current climate skepdick excuse)).

In the words of a Danish climatologist “If even a fraction of the methane clathrate reserves on the continental shelves release, we’re fucked.” I don’t see climate scientists taking to that level of expletives easily. And that Danish climatologist isn’t the only one swearing profusely right now.

617 sagehen  Jul 31, 2014 12:22:41pm

re: #596 GeneJockey

Conservatives can never understand why it is that Teh Juice don’t hate Democrats as much as they do, even as they defenstrate the last Jewish Republican in Congress.

Conservatives can never understand why it is that Teh Juice aren’t grateful for how much they love their imaginary version of Israel, and their imaginary version of Judaism, and why we’re not grateful for the Starring Role they’ve offered us in their End Times Mythology.


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