Republicans Are Upset at the Word “Torture” - Not the Act of Torture

Liz Cheney: Torture is patriotic
Politics • Views: 23,937

Senator Saxby Chambliss is the latest Republican to demonstrate that he’s not really opposed to torture — he just doesn’t want to call it that: Top Republican: Forthcoming Report on CIA Torture Is “Wrong”.

He said the term “torture” is only used by critics of the program and said he believed it would be disputed.

On the subject of waterboarding, Chambliss said it was “one of the specific issues that was investigated by the Department of Justice from the standpoint of, does it comply with the Geneva convention, and they made a determination that it is authorized, that it is not torture.”

And noted political daughter Liz Cheney also weighed in on the subject, calling President Obama “an utter disgrace” for using the word “torture.”

“This president is an utter disgrace. He’s got a situation where, as your last two reports showed, you’ve got crises erupting around the world. And he is expending more time, more energy, more passion, more aggressive activity in targeting and going after patriots, heroes, CIA officers and others who kept us safe after 9/11,” Cheney said on Fox News’ Hannity.

“He’s lying about what they did, he’s slandering them, he went to Cairo and did it in 2009. Today he did it from the podium of the Oval Office. It’s a disgrace. It’s despicable,” Cheney continued.

That’s right, in Cheney’s strange confused moral universe, not only is there nothing wrong with torture, the torturers themselves are “patriots and heroes.”

The utter disgrace is that after all these years and all the evidence that the US government turned its back on our most fundamental values and used torture against helpless prisoners, for absolutely no benefit, we still have Republicans denying and defending it. Shame on these people.

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68 comments
1 Amory Blaine  Aug 3, 2014 10:42:36am

You’re About to See What Obama Calls ‘Torture’

The White House is set to give Congress on Friday the final, declassified version of the Senate Intelligence Committee’s majority report on CIA interrogation. And according to one person who has reviewed the document and three people who were briefed on its contents, the committee’s report will reveal new and shocking details about the CIA’s detention, rendition, and interrogation program in the years following the 9/11 attacks. But the report will not accuse the CIA outright of “torture,” an accusation that could have political, diplomatic, legal, and even criminal implications.
That stands in contrast to the blunt assessment of the CIA’s practices offered by President Obama in a Friday press conference: “We tortured some folks,” the president said. “We did some things that are contrary to our values.”
Intelligence Committee Chairwoman Dianne Feinstein has said the report shows abuse that is “chilling” and “far more systematic and widespread than we thought.”

2 ausador  Aug 3, 2014 10:42:39am

But no one knew we tortured anyone until the President admitted it, he purposefully revealed it just to make America look bad to other countries!!!

(Idiots are still in denial about the whole world knowing that we tortured people even now)

:(

3 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Aug 3, 2014 10:47:35am

This is pure Putinism: the notion that admitting that a nation’s leaders made a mistake is somehow tantamount to besmirching a nation’s honor and integrity.

4 ausador  Aug 3, 2014 10:49:40am

re: #3 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

This is pure Putinism: the notion that admitting that a nation’s leaders made a mistake is somehow tantamount to besmirching a nation’s honor and integrity.

It is a stain upon our dignitas!

5 Lidane  Aug 3, 2014 10:52:20am

Once more with feeling — if the discussion of torture bothers you more than the fact that we tortured people, you need to rethink your life choices.

6 Gus  Aug 3, 2014 10:58:02am

Torture is savagery.

7 b.d.  Aug 3, 2014 10:58:21am

President Obama’s statement is the first step on a long road towards bringing some of the people who did this to justice. The insane reaction of the fauxgressives is what has me befuddled, I knew the wingnuts would freak out about something.

Aren’t Liz Cheney’s 15 minutes about up, not sure why they we ever allocated to her in the first place?

8 Gus  Aug 3, 2014 10:58:36am

These same people would probably be against torturing German spies during WWII because, you know.

9 Targetpractice  Aug 3, 2014 10:59:06am

Every authoritarian regime makes excuses for employing torture, from arguing what constitutes tortures, to arguing that those who are tortured deserved it, to simply suggesting that talking about it undermines those in charge.

If there’s anything I will hold against the President until the day he retires, it’s not using the early momentum behind him after his election in ‘08 to hold accountable the previous administration for its actions. The “It’s in the past, we must move forward” didn’t help after Nixon resigned and it didn’t help after Bush was allowed to retire without incident.

10 ausador  Aug 3, 2014 11:01:41am
“On the subject of waterboarding, Chambliss said it was “one of the specific issues that was investigated by the Department of Justice John Woo from the standpoint of, does it comply with the Geneva convention, and they he made a determination that it is authorized, that it is not torture.”

Fixed that for him.

(also, only if you do it away from American soil)

11 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Aug 3, 2014 11:04:22am

I can completely believe someone would be a patriot and still torture, I just think that person is wildly misunderstanding what the United States is all about. They’re a patriot for a different country, really, a mythical one.

12 b_sharp  Aug 3, 2014 11:10:02am

re: #3 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

This is pure Putinism: the notion that admitting that a nation’s leaders made a mistake is somehow tantamount to besmirching a nation’s honor and integrity.

The narrative has always been more important to wingnuts than the reality. The appearance, the emotional link that can be made is their truth.

13 ausador  Aug 3, 2014 11:12:25am

re: #11 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

I can completely believe someone would be a patriot and still torture, I just think that person is wildly misunderstanding what the United States is all about. They’re a patriot for a different country, really, a mythical one.

Patriots from the Jack Bauer dimension?

14 Lidane  Aug 3, 2014 11:13:25am

re: #11 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

I can completely believe someone would be a patriot and still torture, I just think that person is wildly misunderstanding what the United States is all about. They’re a patriot for a different country, really, a mythical one.

These are the same people who think that 24 is a documentary and that if it’s okay for Jack Bauer, it’s okay for the American military. They fully believe in the ticking time bomb scenario and that torture saves lives. If you disagree with them, then you hate America and you’re a terrorist sympathizer.

15 Targetpractice  Aug 3, 2014 11:14:56am

re: #14 Lidane

These are the same people who think that 24 is a documentary and that if it’s okay for Jack Bauer, it’s okay for the American military. They fully believe in the ticking time bomb scenario and that torture saves lives. If you disagree with them, then you hate America and you’re a terrorist sympathizer.

And there’s no question in their minds that the guy who’s strapped to a chair and getting the third degree deserves it. No ambiguity in their world, no room for doubt, and certainly no chance of error. If they are torturing him, it’s because he deserves it. Funny how much this mindset mirrors their view of capital punishment.

16 nines09  Aug 3, 2014 11:15:00am

Every day the stupid grows. Duplicity at it’s finest. Rebranding? Outreach? Compassion? Understanding? People who vote for these wretches are ill. Fuck the GOP.

17 thedopefishlives  Aug 3, 2014 11:15:00am

re: #14 Lidane

These are the same people who think that 24 is a documentary and that if it’s okay for Jack Bauer, it’s okay for the American military. They fully believe in the ticking time bomb scenario and that torture saves lives. If you disagree with them, then you hate America and you’re a terrorist sympathizer.

To be fair, it is possible that such a thing might happened. That doesn’t mean that we should freely and willfully engage in torture just on the off chance that such a situation might arise, though.

18 Higgs Boson's Mate  Aug 3, 2014 11:15:17am

re: #10 ausador

How times change. In the aftermath of WWII we hanged or sentenced to hard labor a number of Japanese soldiers who were convicted of waterboarding US prisoners. During the US occupation of the Philippines following the 1898 Spanish-American War, US soldiers were court-martialed for using the “water cure” to interrogate captured Filipino guerrillas.

19 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Aug 3, 2014 11:15:56am

re: #13 ausador

Patriots from the Jack Bauer dimension?

It’s the same kind of reasoning of people who say “I’m a patriot, so I think everyone should speak English”. There’s nothing about the real, actual USA that means speaking English is a sign of patriotism or what have you, but their idea of America requires English.

Or people who think that the USA is a christian nation. It’s not true, and in fact is the opposite of what the USA is about, but to them, it’s real. They actually believe in that.

20 ausador  Aug 3, 2014 11:17:55am

re: #18 Higgs Boson’s Mate

US soldiers were court-martialed for using the “water cure” to interrogate captured Filipino guerrillas.

Also in Vietnam, at least to one soldier who was caught doing it in a photo.

21 Mike Lamb  Aug 3, 2014 11:20:02am

Well, Liz, considering that Obama is the fucking president, I’m pretty sure he gets to define what constitutes torture as a matter of US policy. Fucking twit.

22 thedopefishlives  Aug 3, 2014 11:20:33am

re: #21 Mike Lamb

Well, Liz, considering that Obama is the fucking president, I’m pretty sure he gets to define what constitutes torture as a matter of US policy. Fucking twit.

Enough with your logic, you pinko commie shill.

23 b_sharp  Aug 3, 2014 11:21:43am

re: #19 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

It’s the same kind of reasoning of people who say “I’m a patriot, so I think everyone should speak English”. There’s nothing about the real, actual USA that means speaking English is a sign of patriotism or what have you, but their idea of America requires English.

Or people who think that the USA is a christian nation. It’s not true, and in fact is the opposite of what the USA is about, but to them, it’s real. They actually believe in that.

Their vision of patriotism requires conformity.

24 Pie-onist Overlord  Aug 3, 2014 11:22:44am

re: #23 b_sharp

Their vision of patriotism requires conformity fascism.

Ftfy

25 GlutenFreeJesus  Aug 3, 2014 11:23:49am

Let’s waterboard all these idiots. It’s not torture. Just a splash of water. Nothing to be scared of!

26 thedopefishlives  Aug 3, 2014 11:24:48am

re: #25 GlutenFreeJesus

Let’s waterboard all these idiots. It’s not torture. Just a splash of water. Nothing to be scared of!

Mythbusters, believe it or not, did an episode on this. They actually had to halt the experiment early because the subject was suffering legitimate psychological damage.

27 Charles Johnson  Aug 3, 2014 11:28:04am
28 Charles Johnson  Aug 3, 2014 11:29:29am

That’s the strongest denunciation of Israeli military action I’ve ever seen from the State Department.

29 thedopefishlives  Aug 3, 2014 11:30:31am

re: #27 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

Dayum. They be pissed. Not that I blame them; shelling schools doesn’t play well, even if Hamas is using them as missile launch sites.

30 Dr Lizardo  Aug 3, 2014 11:32:07am

Ah, the old ‘ticking time-bomb’ scenario.

So, let’s say I put a 500 Kt device in Akron, OH, and it’s set to go off in one hour. You (the security services) know that I have a nuke that’s gonna go off sometime during the day. You capture me….I play you with for about 20 minutes, then you torture me. I tell you, “Geez, Louise….it’s in Boston, running around in a rented delivery van. A Ryder. My buddy X is driving it.”

So, in the 40 minutes it takes you (the security services) to mobilize and start looking at every Ryder van (or whatever I say) in Boston….

Boom.

That’s why that scenario is a total crock. A truly dedicated and committed terrorist will simply lie to his interrogators in order to throw them off the trail. A truly dedicated terrorist may well have already undergone the type of training administered to soldiers that helps them resist torture in the hands of their foes. End result: He (or she) achieves their objective and the security services now look like a bunch of damned fools.

31 OhNoZombies!  Aug 3, 2014 11:33:14am

Being a Cheney means never having to say your sorry…
Real Americans do what they what, when they want, consequences be damned.
In RWNJ-land, reality is a farce.

32 Kragar  Aug 3, 2014 11:35:07am
33 Targetpractice  Aug 3, 2014 11:38:12am

re: #30 Dr Lizardo

Ah, the old ‘ticking time-bomb’ scenario.

So, let’s say I put a 500 Kt device in Akron, OH, and it’s set to go off in one hour. You (the security services) know that I have a nuke that’s gonna go off sometime during the day. You capture me….I play you with for about 20 minutes, then you torture me. I tell you, “Geez, Louise….it’s in Boston, running around in a rented delivery van. A Ryder. My buddy X is driving it.”

So, in the 40 minutes it takes you (the security services) to mobilize and start looking at every Ryder van (or whatever I say) in Boston….

Boom.

That’s why that scenario is a total crock. A truly dedicated and committed terrorist will simply lie to his interrogators in order to throw them off the trail. A truly dedicated terrorist may well have already undergone the type of training administered to soldiers that helps them resist torture in the hands of their foes. End result: He (or she) achieves their objective and the security services now look like a bunch of damned fools.

It always seems that the “ticking bomb” scenario is set in such a fashion that there’s plenty of time to torture the terrorist, find the bomb, and defuse it. No question give to what happens if the terrorist keeps quiet, lies to them, or just decides that being tortured to death is acceptable if the bomb still goes off.

34 calochortus  Aug 3, 2014 11:38:50am

re: #10 ausador

Because I nit-pick: That’s John Yoo, not Woo.

35 Dr. Matt  Aug 3, 2014 11:39:57am

re: #32 Kragar

Rick Perry shrugs off 1,700 deaths in Gaza: ‘War is a horrible thing’ so people die t.co
— Kragar (@Kragar_LGF) August 3, 2014

A “pro-lifer” perfectly summed up in a single sentence.

36 Kragar  Aug 3, 2014 11:40:02am

re: #33 Targetpractice

It always seems that the “ticking bomb” scenario is set in such a fashion that there’s plenty of time to torture the terrorist, find the bomb, and defuse it. No question give to what happens if the terrorist keeps quiet, lies to them, or just decides that being tortured to death is acceptable if the bomb still goes off.

It also assumes the guy they have in custody is:
1) actually a terrorist
2) has the information they need in the first place

37 calochortus  Aug 3, 2014 11:40:59am

re: #33 Targetpractice

It always seems that the “ticking bomb” scenario is set in such a fashion that there’s plenty of time to torture the terrorist, find the bomb, and defuse it. No question give to what happens if the terrorist keeps quiet, lies to them, or just decides that being tortured to death is acceptable if the bomb still goes off.

Well, it wouldn’t work if they didn’t set it up that way, now would it?
I just wish the average human could tell the difference between reality and a plot device.

38 Targetpractice  Aug 3, 2014 11:41:05am

re: #34 calochortus

Because I nit-pick: That’s John Yoo, not Woo.

True, if John Woo were involved, there would be white doves.

39 Pie-onist Overlord  Aug 3, 2014 11:41:44am

I think all Gazans who wish to leave should be allowed to emigrate to Detroit.

40 Targetpractice  Aug 3, 2014 11:42:05am

re: #36 Kragar

It also assumes the guy they have in custody is:
1) actually a terrorist
2) has the information they need in the first place

That’s a large part of the reason I never got into shows like 24. When there’s no question that the guy you’re torturing in a “bad guy,” then it ceases being a thrilling action show and just becomes torture porn.

41 calochortus  Aug 3, 2014 11:42:07am

re: #38 Targetpractice

True, if John Woo were involved, there would be white doves.

I had to Google that. My knowledge has been increased :)

42 thedopefishlives  Aug 3, 2014 11:42:19am

re: #39 Pie-onist Overlord

I think all Gazans who wish to leave should be allowed to emigrate to Detroit.

Why would you inflict that on anyone?/////

43 Pie-onist Overlord  Aug 3, 2014 11:43:05am

re: #42 thedopefishlives

Why would you inflict that on anyone?/////

I seriously mean it, I wasn’t being facetious.

44 Amory Blaine  Aug 3, 2014 11:43:14am

re: #39 Pie-onist Overlord

This. Or anywhere else (in US) they wish.

45 thedopefishlives  Aug 3, 2014 11:43:45am

re: #43 Pie-onist Overlord

I seriously mean it, I wasn’t being facetious.

No, I know. I was the one being facetious. Sorry.

46 Romantic Heretic  Aug 3, 2014 11:44:03am

re: #30 Dr Lizardo

A truly dedicated and committed terrorist will simply lie to his interrogators in order to throw them off the trail. A truly dedicated terrorist may well have already undergone the type of training administered to soldiers that helps them resist torture in the hands of their foes. End result: He (or she) achieves their objective and the security services now look like a bunch of damned fools.

A truly committed terrorist will not be taken alive. They will have some instantly available method of taking their own lives.

Then they can be tortured as much as the torturers want. Unless they hold a seance they’re getting nothing from him.

Hmmm. Story idea.

47 dog philosopher  Aug 3, 2014 11:44:47am

he’s slandering them

The Party Of Tender Egos

48 GlutenFreeJesus  Aug 3, 2014 11:45:28am

re: #26 thedopefishlives

Mythbusters, believe it or not, did an episode on this. They actually had to halt the experiment early because the subject was suffering legitimate psychological damage.

These pro torture Neanderthals won’t believe it until it’s done to themselves. Of course they KNOW it’s torture, and they’d never willingly let someone do it to them.

And another thought. If Obama was President instead of Bush, they’d be screaming torture from the rooftops demanding the arrest, trial, and conviction of him.

49 Amory Blaine  Aug 3, 2014 11:45:33am

I feel the same way about the Iraqi’s as well. “Freedom isn’t free”. Isn’t that what we’re always being told?

50 Dr Lizardo  Aug 3, 2014 11:46:00am

re: #46 Romantic Heretic

A truly committed terrorist will not be taken alive. They will have some instantly available method of taking their own lives.

Then they can be tortured as much as the torturers want. Unless they hold a seance they’re getting nothing from him.

Hmmm. Story idea.

LOL

Good point. The old cyanide capsule or whatnot.

51 OhNoZombies!  Aug 3, 2014 11:46:24am

re: #39 Pie-onist Overlord

I think all Gazans who wish to leave should be allowed to emigrate to Detroit.

That would just turn into some kind of Obama sekrit mooslum plot.
No sarc.

52 Kragar  Aug 3, 2014 11:46:56am
53 Targetpractice  Aug 3, 2014 11:48:25am

re: #52 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Remind us again why we’re at war with groups like Al-Q?

Oh right, different “holy book.”

54 Romantic Heretic  Aug 3, 2014 11:48:59am

re: #50 Dr Lizardo

LOL

Good point. The old cynaide capsule or whatnot.

Story idea is some group of semi-rogue intelligence people torture a person to death. Victim tells them nothing.

So they do hold a seance, and the victim does come back.

But the victim was innocent and really not happy that they were tortured to death. Much hilarity ensues.

55 Skip Intro  Aug 3, 2014 11:48:59am

re: #31 OhNoZombies!

Being a Cheney means never having to say your sorry…
Real Americans do what they what, when they want, consequences be damned.
In RWNJ-land, reality is a farce.

Fortunately, it also means that you don’t automatically get to be a Senator, even after daddy stabs one of his “long time friends” in the back to clear the path for you.

56 ausador  Aug 3, 2014 11:49:33am

re: #25 GlutenFreeJesus

Let’s waterboard all these idiots. It’s not torture. Just a splash of water. Nothing to be scared of!

They are too afraid of it to try it voluntarily, remember Sean Hannity’s offer and his subsquent chickening out? (only 1:15 long)


SoundCloud

Hmm…”it isn’t torture!” Yet they are too afraid of it to try it for themselves? If they are scared of it knowing that they can stop it at any point, after only a few seconds (the way Hitchens did) then how do they think a prisoner with no control over the process feels? It sure seems to fit the definition of torture to me…

“… ‘torture’ means any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person information or a confession…

That is the definition used by the United Nations Convention Against Torture and other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment (UNCAT). We signed that convention in 1985 and then that signature was ratified in 1986.

57 Romantic Heretic  Aug 3, 2014 11:51:31am

re: #56 ausador

Feh. The UN are all commies and we don’t need to keep our word to commies.

58 Lidane  Aug 3, 2014 11:52:21am

re: #53 Targetpractice

Remind us again why we’re at war with groups like Al-Q?

Oh right, different “holy book.”

59 Romantic Heretic  Aug 3, 2014 11:53:08am

re: #55 Skip Intro

Fortunately, it also means that you don’t automatically get to be a Senator, even after daddy stabs one of his “long time friends” in the back to clear the path for you.

Cheney to ‘long time friend’: Hey! You fucked up. You trusted me.

60 bratwurst  Aug 3, 2014 12:05:34pm

I think CNN’s constant patting itself on the back for a fugitive capture resulting from their new John (America’s Most Wanted) Walsh show is finally going to get me out of the habit of watching that network.

Then again, they spent months congratulating themselves for bringing so much attention to the plight of orcas in captivity with the Blackfish movie…something they PURCHASED and had no hand in producing…and I am still watching.

And they put Jake Tapper on TV pretty much every day, and even THAT doesn’t stop me from tuning in.

But John Walsh’s self-righteous tough guy act just might do the trick.

61 Teukka  Aug 3, 2014 12:12:46pm

re: #30 Dr Lizardo

Ah, the old ‘ticking time-bomb’ scenario.

So, let’s say I put a 500 Kt device in Akron, OH, and it’s set to go off in one hour. You (the security services) know that I have a nuke that’s gonna go off sometime during the day. You capture me….I play you with for about 20 minutes, then you torture me. I tell you, “Geez, Louise….it’s in Boston, running around in a rented delivery van. A Ryder. My buddy X is driving it.”

So, in the 40 minutes it takes you (the security services) to mobilize and start looking at every Ryder van (or whatever I say) in Boston….

Boom.

That’s why that scenario is a total crock. A truly dedicated and committed terrorist will simply lie to his interrogators in order to throw them off the trail. A truly dedicated terrorist may well have already undergone the type of training administered to soldiers that helps them resist torture in the hands of their foes. End result: He (or she) achieves their objective and the security services now look like a bunch of damned fools.

What I would do is to call up the office in Akron, OH, ask them to arrange a live streaming camera at a park filled with mothers and children, preferably of similar ethnicity as the mad bomber (no, no forcing of people people to remain in place).

Then I would conduct a plain vanilla interrogation with a TV displaying the livestream in a prominent position, as well as multiple cameras trained on the subject. If asked, lie to the subject and say it’s a ruggedized CCTV camera in a protected DHS network, or otherwise hint at that it will at least survive until the shockwave hits (which can be up to 30 seconds after the fireball). Even better is if you have such a ruggedized camera with video link.

Other than that, nothing beyond normal questioning. The suspects mind will do the rest. Being trained to handle interrogators and torture doesn’t mean the treatment won’t get to you. However, preparing for a visual assault of the order of magnitude of a nuke going off up close and personal requires effort, which means that the subjects mind will be more pre-occupied with preparing for both the visual assault and keeping his mask the closer to T0 you get, meaning he (or she) is more likely to make slip-ups.

Of course, this will only work for a perpetrator of such a bombing. Only plus side is that if you have the real perp, you are in a loose-win situation at worst. You may lose Akron, OH, but the perp will spill his guts fast and furiously if it goes off, especially if you had a camera which can hack being in a nuke blast (which isn’t as difficult as it may seem).

Why? Because there is nothing that can prepare you for the horror of a nuke going off. Even a trained member of a bomber crew is reported to have burst out “My God, what have we done?” one of the two nukes ever used in anger went off. And we all know what Robert Oppenheimer came to think of when he saw Trinity go poof.

Oh, and 30 mins of torture would do nothing. You need at least a day to soften up a subject, and even then, you have a clear risk of getting garbage out.

62 calochortus  Aug 3, 2014 12:14:16pm

re: #60 bratwurst

One of the nicest things about having dropped cable a couple years ago is that I can say I have no idea what you are talking about. This also applies to reality TV shows and a bunch of other dreck that passes for entertainment or news these days.
We also can’t stream this stuff over our internet much because we have a limit on our usage (it is through a small local provider. Bonus points because we can ignore Comcast.) Life is good.

63 Dr Lizardo  Aug 3, 2014 12:18:21pm

re: #61 Teukka

Ah…..but what if the suspect simply doesn’t care?

Leave aside religious or political terrorism. What if the suspect thinks it would be the coolest thing ever do watch people die? A true psychopath?

As far as religious terrorists go, religion can provide infinite rationalizations; most notably, “Oh, well…they’re going to Paradise anyway as [unintentional] martyrs of the bombing. No biggie.”

No matter what you do, or what you tried, if you’re going up against a hardcore religious fanatic - or a true psychopath - it’s simply doomed to fail.

64 ausador  Aug 3, 2014 12:23:02pm

re: #60 bratwurst

I think CNN’s constant patting itself on the back for a fugitive capture resulting from their new John (America’s Most Wanted) Walsh show is finally going to get me out of the habit of watching that network.

You mean “The Hunt With John Walsh” after Fox dropped it Lifetime picked it up but then canceled it due to the high royalties that had to be paid to Fox for using the “America’s Most Wanted” name.

Wasn’t the guy (Charles Mozdir, an alleged child pornographer/molester) killed in shootout with the police in New York city, not captured.

65 Teukka  Aug 3, 2014 12:24:22pm

re: #63 Dr Lizardo

Ah…..but what if the suspect simply doesn’t care?

Leave aside religious or political terrorism. What if the suspect thinks it would be the coolest thing ever do watch people die? A true psychopath?

As far as religious terrorists go, religion can provide infinite rationalizations; most notably, “Oh, well…they’re going to Paradise anyway as [unintentional] martyrs of the bombing. No biggie.”

No matter what you do, or what you tried, if you’re going up against a hardcore religious fanatic - or a true psychopath - it’s simply doomed to fail.

True. Thankfully, those are few and far between.

66 Botsplainer  Aug 3, 2014 1:35:42pm

I always thought that giving every dipshit private, corporal and sergeant a free pass on “coercive interrogation” was a mistake, even when I was a wingnut. My reason was that it would definitely be overused for exceptionally petty reasons, turning the populace even further, and making the occupation a nightmare. While I could see the ticking bomb in truly exceptional circumstances, I had assumed that the pardon power of the President could address it - in other words, be fucking well sure of what you were doing before you did it, and it better be important. Accompanied by an elimination of command discretion on charges regarding crimes against the occupied, it could have worked and kept everybody honest.

Instead, we got a clusterfuck. Too many command level dismissals on Haditha didn’t help.

67 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Aug 3, 2014 2:58:40pm

Liz Cheney is a disgraced offspring of a war criminal.

68 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Aug 3, 2014 3:01:53pm

It’s not at all about whether torture works. Arguing about this amounts to implicitly conceding that if it does work, it might be legally OK to use it sometimes.


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The Pandemic Cost 7 Million Lives, but Talks to Prevent a Repeat Stall In late 2021, as the world reeled from the arrival of the highly contagious omicron variant of the coronavirus, representatives of almost 200 countries met - some online, some in-person in Geneva - hoping to forestall a future worldwide ...
Cheechako
3 days ago
Views: 118 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 1
Texas County at Center of Border Fight Is Overwhelmed by Migrant Deaths EAGLE PASS, Tex. - The undertaker lighted a cigarette and held it between his latex-gloved fingers as he stood over the bloated body bag lying in the bed of his battered pickup truck. The woman had been fished out ...
Cheechako
2 weeks ago
Views: 279 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 1