The Impressive Professionalism of Breitbart “News”

Don’t ever change
Wingnuts • Views: 42,603

With the whole world in flux, constantly changing, it’s nice to see some things that remain the same year after year.

For example, the boundless idiocy of the right wing crackpots who run Breitbart “News.” Today’s unchanging case in point comes via their latest fear-mongering article about the civil unrest in Missouri: RIOTERS THROW MOLOTOV COCKTAILS AT POLICE IN FERGUSON — AGAIN.

AGAIN! AGAIN, I SAY!

Except — the photo with which they illustrate this screaming headline actually shows a demonstrator throwing back a police tear gas canister, and it was taken five days ago, on August 14th.

Don’t ever change, Breitbrats!

UPDATE at 8/19/14 3:32:22 pm by Charles Johnson

And to make this even more absurdly idiotic, here’s a tweet from the man in that photo, revealing that he wasn’t throwing it back at the police — he was throwing it away from some kids.

(h/t: @arkyhawg.)

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381 comments
1 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Aug 19, 2014 1:23:44pm

It does not matter, to their target audience, this image represents what they claim it to be.

And that is the wonder of modern pseudojournalism

2 Testy Toad T  Aug 19, 2014 1:24:27pm

Only an imbecile would take that for a Molotov, at any rate. You want a nicely smoldering fuse when you throw it, not a five-foot tail of fire.

That just sounds foolish and dangerous.

3 wrenchwench  Aug 19, 2014 1:26:18pm
4 Bulworth  Aug 19, 2014 1:26:51pm
For example, the boundless idiocy of the right wing crackpots who run Breitbart “News.” Today’s unchanging case in point comes via their latest fear-mongering article about the civil unrest in Missouri: RIOTERS THROW MOLOTOV COCKTAILS AT POLICE IN FERGUSON — AGAIN.

AGAIN, the Bundy protesters had gunz. What would the headlines have looked like if those “Patriots” had used them against officials, as they threatened?

5 b_sharp  Aug 19, 2014 1:27:49pm

re: #3 wrenchwench

[Embedded content]

I get your point.

6 klys  Aug 19, 2014 1:28:20pm

Also that photo is from …Wednesday night, I think?

Not last night, for sure.

7 klys  Aug 19, 2014 1:28:59pm

re: #6 klys

Also that photo is from …Wednesday night, I think?

Not last night, for sure.

Like is says in the article.

I’m just full of reading fail today.

8 Franklin  Aug 19, 2014 1:29:01pm

Yep, Mike Brown is going on trial…..

9 Archangelus  Aug 19, 2014 1:30:03pm

Breitbartians behaving as Breitbartians… nothing new under the sun it would seem…

10 Rightwingconspirator  Aug 19, 2014 1:30:15pm

Brietbart (style) journalism in History

“Dewey Defeats Truman”
“Supreme Court Strikes down ACA”
“Abba in Plane Crash”
“Captain Sun Ting Wong”
“These may be rubber bullets can anyone confirm?”

11 Kid A  Aug 19, 2014 1:30:36pm

Nation reports Ferguson tear gas has abortifacient properties; Dim Jim’s head spins like Linda Blair claiming liberals are now “anti-abortion.”

12 Bulworth  Aug 19, 2014 1:31:05pm

re:
#8

So the prosecutor is hoping to indict the dead guy.

Makes sense.

////

13 EPR-radar  Aug 19, 2014 1:31:26pm

re: #8 Franklin

If that fairy tale is told to the grand jury, it would be completely appropriate for the feds to start arresting local officials for obstructing justice and conspiracy to cover up murder.

14 Charles Johnson  Aug 19, 2014 1:31:42pm
15 Archangelus  Aug 19, 2014 1:32:22pm

OT but seeing how it’s pretty much going on above and around me at this point:

Ynet: Heavy Rocket Barrage Fired at Tel Aviv , Southern Israel

A heavy barrage of rockets was fired at Israel on Tuesday night, ar around 10:40pm. Loud explosions were heard in the Tel Aviv metropolitan area, while Code Red sirens blared throughout southern and central Israel.

Some 20 rockets were fired in 20 minutes from Gaza at Israel. Among them, 2 hit open areas in the Sha’ar HaNegev Regional Council, and 2 more in open areas in the Eshkol Regional Council. Five hit open areas in the Be’er Sheva area and at least one was intercepted by Iron Dome over central Israel and another fell in an open area.

Hamas’ armed wing, the Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades, claimed responsibility for the fire at central Israel, saying they fired M-75 and Fajr-5 missiles at the Tel Aviv area and a G80 rocket towards Ben Gurion International Airport.

16 Pie-onist Overlord  Aug 19, 2014 1:33:28pm

It seems that Ferguson is full of looting, attention & anarchy tourists.

17 Archangelus  Aug 19, 2014 1:33:54pm

As stated before: Let the countdown to the nth “”“”“ceasefire”“”“” begin anew…
/IndustrialGradeSarcExpressedAsARocketExplodesOverhead

18 lawhawk  Aug 19, 2014 1:33:56pm
19 Lidane  Aug 19, 2014 1:34:07pm

re: #13 EPR-radar

If that fairy tale is told to the grand jury, it would be completely appropriate for the feds to start arresting local officials for obstructing justice and conspiracy to cover up murder.

They should do it anyway just based on how the Ferguson PD has handled everything so far.

20 klys  Aug 19, 2014 1:34:17pm

re: #8 Franklin

Depressing as shit, but not surprising.

Hell, George Zimmerman wasn’t a cop and he got off. A cop shooting on duty, that case needs to be fucking airtight to make it through - and you have to have a prosecutor who actually gives a shit about justice being done.

At this point I’m not convinced that anything would get this prosecuted properly beyond a full audio/visual recording of the complete incident, with bonus addition of the cop using the n-word as he’s shooting.

And even then.

21 Charles Johnson  Aug 19, 2014 1:35:45pm
22 Lidane  Aug 19, 2014 1:37:54pm

re: #12 Bulworth

We all know that Michael Brown will never get justice. He’s going to be the one put on trial and Darren Wilson will get away with murder because of course Brown’s a violent thug because he’s black. And of course Wilson is the hero of the story who was almost beaten to death and had to empty his gun into another human being.

Cops never ever lie. And they never ever kill indiscriminately. And black men are always violent. That’s just how things are in America.

*sigh*

23 Skip Intro  Aug 19, 2014 1:39:34pm

Breitbart is going to have to upgrade the hate or they’re going to lose share to people like DimJim. The RW wants fresh manufactured hate, not the stale, recycled product that Breitbart serves.

24 Archangelus  Aug 19, 2014 1:39:58pm

re: #21 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

If that happens, Ferguson now will be to Ferguson later what Mahjong is to Mortal Kombat Carmageddon Postal 2…

25 Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 19, 2014 1:39:59pm

re: #14 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

And FDL is asking for donations to pay his expenses.
Professionals!!!11!!

26 Targetpractice  Aug 19, 2014 1:40:11pm

re: #8 Franklin

Yep, Mike Brown is going on trial…..

[Embedded content]

That’s been the entire point of the FPD’s action to date, putting Michael Brown on trial in the court of public opinion, knowing he’s not alive to defend himself.

27 Archangelus  Aug 19, 2014 1:41:31pm

re: #26 Targetpractice

That’s been the entire point of the FPD’s action to date, putting Michael Brown on trial in the court of public opinion, knowing he’s not alive to defend himself.

“Hey, it worked against Treyvon Martin, why not now”…. /////

28 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Aug 19, 2014 1:41:45pm

Are grand jury proceedings public?

29 klys  Aug 19, 2014 1:42:03pm

re: #28 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

Are grand jury proceedings public?

My understanding is no.

30 nines09  Aug 19, 2014 1:42:21pm

You have to be able to fan the flames with a picture that can fan flames and flame fans.

31 Franklin  Aug 19, 2014 1:42:26pm
32 Skip Intro  Aug 19, 2014 1:42:38pm

Will Wilson be calling George Zimmerman as a character witness? I’ve been surprised by less.

33 EPR-radar  Aug 19, 2014 1:44:27pm

re: #20 klys

Depressing as shit, but not surprising.

Hell, George Zimmerman wasn’t a cop and he got off. A cop shooting on duty, that case needs to be fucking airtight to make it through - and you have to have a prosecutor who actually gives a shit about justice being done.

At this point I’m not convinced that anything would get this prosecuted properly beyond a full audio/visual recording of the complete incident, with bonus addition of the cop using the n-word as he’s shooting.

And even then.

What gets me going in this case is that it isn’t even a close call.

The only way a police shooting could look worse for the officer doing the shooting is if the shooter were to have previously filed documents with the nearest available court affirming an intention to blow away the next uppity **** encountered.

34 Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 19, 2014 1:45:24pm

O/T
Step-son is off the ventilator and talking. First thing he asked for was to see his wife (she is deliriously happy right now).

35 Kragar  Aug 19, 2014 1:45:27pm

Had a fire alarm at work, always fun.

PA system announces: “This is a drill. This is a drill.” while the alarms are going off.

We get outside and the fire chief says “You need to stop acting like its a drill.”

36 EPR-radar  Aug 19, 2014 1:45:28pm

re: #32 Skip Intro

Will Wilson be calling George Zimmerman as a character witness? I’ve been surprised by less.

There ought to be a KKK grand wizard or two that would be happy to contribute their valuable point of view to court proceedings. //

37 Ace-o-aces  Aug 19, 2014 1:45:32pm

re: #8 Franklin

MMA SUPERPUNCH!!!!!!!!

Yes, apparently Mike Brown had superpowers. Good thing the officer shot him before he destroyed the city!

38 Targetpractice  Aug 19, 2014 1:45:39pm

It is, once again, the alive white shooter’s word against the word of a dead black victim. And you also see the method to the FPD’s madness of not interviewing witnesses, as it means it won’t come up in the grand jury. Only Johnson’s will, and we’re going to hear how he’s lying to cover for his friend, while Wilson is being totally truthful because he has no reason to lie.

39 klys  Aug 19, 2014 1:45:54pm

re: #34 Backwoods_Sleuth

O/T
Step-son is off the ventilator and talking. First thing he asked for was to see his wife (she is deliriously happy right now).

I can’t even begin to imagine. So glad to hear continued good news.

40 Targetpractice  Aug 19, 2014 1:46:50pm

re: #37 Ace-o-aces

MMA SUPERPUNCH!!!!!!!!

Yes, apparently Mike Brown had superpowers. Good thing the officer shot him before he destroyed the city!

Another reminder of the Martin slaying, where the one eyewitness described the “hold” that Trayvon had Zimmerman in as something he’d seen in MMA fighting.

41 Jenner7  Aug 19, 2014 1:47:04pm

re: #22 Lidane

I’m afraid you are right. And it sucks. Really sucks.

42 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Aug 19, 2014 1:47:33pm

re: #38 Targetpractice

Thankfully, there are many independent witnesses plus a contemporary twitter record that is impossible to falsify.

43 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Aug 19, 2014 1:47:41pm

re: #33 EPR-radar

What gets me going in this case is that it isn’t even a close call.

The only way a police shooting could look worse for the officer doing the shooting is if the shooter were to have previously filed documents with the nearest available court affirming an intention to blow away the next uppity **** encountered.

The local police department has done its job: by suppressing evidence, failing to promptly interview eyewitnesses and release reports and information, they have allowed enough “reasonable doubt” to creep in and prevent any sort of conviction.

44 Targetpractice  Aug 19, 2014 1:47:58pm

Seems like Lidane may very well win the bet that Wilson will never see the inside of a courtroom. No telling if the DoJ will choose to go through with their civil rights case if the grand jury fails to indict.

45 First As Tragedy, Then As Farce  Aug 19, 2014 1:47:59pm

Hagel has authority to suspend program that arms cops

Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel has the authority to suspend a program that sends surplus military equipment to local law enforcement agencies, the Pentagon said Tuesday.

“The secretary has the authority to rescind and take back equipment that is transferred to local law enforcement agencies if he deems fit. He has that authority,” said Pentagon Rear Adm. John Kirby.

Kirby said there had been no move towards suspending the program, but said that Hagel had asked officials to provide him with more information. He stressed that the Pentagon has not yet launched a formal review.
“The secretary has been mindful of the public debate and discussion about this issue and asked his staff this morning for some additional information about the program,” said Kirby. “He has been given an information paper that provides some more detail to it, and he’s consuming that now.”

I’d be surprised if anything happens along that line, especially considering that the last sentence makes it sound like Hagel ate the paper they gave him.

46 Targetpractice  Aug 19, 2014 1:48:56pm

re: #42 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

Thankfully, there are many independent witnesses plus a contemporary twitter record that is impossible to falsify.

Yeah, but odds are the prosecutor won’t introduce any of that into evidence. After all, only Johnson has ever been formally interviewed, or at least he’s the only one who has announced such.

47 Lidane  Aug 19, 2014 1:49:45pm

re: #41 Jenner7

I’m afraid you are right. And it sucks. Really sucks.

Of course it does. But did anyone REALLY expect a white cop in the South to ever face prosecution for murdering an unarmed black man?

The fix has been in from the moment Mike Brown’s body bled out on the street. Wilson is going to walk. It’s inevitable.

48 Bulworth  Aug 19, 2014 1:49:57pm

re:
#34

Hooray!!! So glad to hear. Such good news!

49 Ace-o-aces  Aug 19, 2014 1:50:16pm

re: #40 Targetpractice

Another reminder of the Martin slaying, where the one eyewitness described the “hold” that Trayvon had Zimmerman in as something he’d seen in MMA fighting.

Yes, apparently they both had been trained in MMA fighting as part of Obama’s secret army of unarmed black teenagers.

50 Bulworth  Aug 19, 2014 1:51:03pm

re:
#46

That should ease tensions in Ferguson.

////

51 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Aug 19, 2014 1:52:47pm

re: #43 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

The local police department has done its job: by suppressing evidence, failing to promptly interview eyewitnesses and release reports and information, they have allowed enough “reasonable doubt” to creep in and prevent any sort of conviction.

Again, you repeat this like a mantra without giving any justifications. What evidence has been suppressed? The evidence are witnesses (perhaps autopsies too, if their interpretation is unambiguous). That one witness was not promptly interviewed means nothing, he can be interviewed later, and then in court, as can the rest of them.

Whether then there remains a reasonable doubt is up to the jury to decide.

52 Kragar  Aug 19, 2014 1:53:40pm

ISIS has executed hostage American journalist James Foley and released video of the beheading.

53 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Aug 19, 2014 1:53:51pm

re: #46 Targetpractice

Yeah, but odds are the prosecutor won’t introduce any of that into evidence. After all, only Johnson has ever been formally interviewed, or at least he’s the only one who has announced such.

Sure, I don’t expect anything good with the good ole folks in charge. If the case is taken from this prosecutor though…

54 Skip Intro  Aug 19, 2014 1:53:51pm

re: #8 Franklin

Is this serious?

55 Kragar  Aug 19, 2014 1:55:03pm
56 Targetpractice  Aug 19, 2014 1:55:42pm

re: #53 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

Sure, I don’t expect anything good with the good ole folks in charge. If the case is taken from this prosecutor though…

Hasn’t happened yet. I very much doubt it will happen. The one good thing Nixon did was bring in the Highway Patrol to police Ferguson, and that lasted all of a day before he started bringing the hammer down again. I don’t expect he’ll bow to demands to appoint a special prosecutor to replace one with such obvious bias.

57 gwangung  Aug 19, 2014 1:56:42pm

re: #51 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

Again, you repeat this like a mantra without giving any justifications. What evidence has been suppressed? The evidence are witnesses (perhaps autopsies too, if their interpretation is unambiguous). That one witness was not promptly interviewed means nothing, he can be interviewed later, and then in court, as can the rest of them.

Whether then there remains a reasonable doubt is up to the jury to decide.

This is not a very good argument. It is divorced from reality.

Try something else (which doesn’t insult our intelligence).

58 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Aug 19, 2014 1:56:49pm

re: #51 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

Again, you repeat this like a mantra without giving any justifications. What evidence has been suppressed? The evidence are witnesses (perhaps autopsies too, if their interpretation is unambiguous). That one witness was not promptly interviewed means nothing, he can be interviewed later, and then in court, as can the rest of them.

Whether then there remains a reasonable doubt is up to the jury to decide.

The police failed to interview eyewitnesses and then delayed release of the autopsy findings “because it might influence testimony”.

A perfect bit of self-sealing ass-covering logic there.

59 ausador  Aug 19, 2014 1:56:55pm

re: #42 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

Thankfully, there are many independent witnesses plus a contemporary twitter record that is impossible to falsify.

The D.A. is the one who decides what if any evidence to present to the grand jury, he does not have to give them any of that information if he chooses not to. Same with the witnesses, it will be interesting to see which of them get subpoenaed to testify. :(

60 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Aug 19, 2014 1:57:18pm

re: #57 gwangung

This is not a very good argument. It is divorced from reality.

Try something else (which doesn’t insult our intelligence).

Excuse me?

61 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Aug 19, 2014 1:59:44pm

re: #58 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

The police failed to interview eyewitnesses and then delayed release of the autopsy findings “because it might influence testimony”.

A perfect bit of self-sealing ass-covering logic there.

So? You’re repeating this to indicate that the evidence has somehow been irreparably tainted, which it hasn’t. It is useless in the hands of the ole good boys network, that much is true. But it is there.

62 Shiplord Kirel  Aug 19, 2014 1:59:57pm

This is nuts. I’ve about had it with the world as it spirals into bizarro idiocracy, the spin accelerating as the sides of the toilet close in.

I might just shut everything off, communicate only by hand-written snail mail, and hole up here in conspiracy compound with my cat, dog, and all the old books I’ve owned for years but never got around to reading. I think I’ll grow a beard like Billy Gibbons and wander around the property like a scary old hermit. Come to think of it, I would in fact be a scary old hermit. If visitors show up, I’ll wave my gnarled walking stick and shout blood-curdling Bible verses at them.

Nah, there is still a chance I will pop for the Virgin Galactic space ride. It would be better if it could keep on going all the way to Mars (as I believe it will in a few years) but even the sub-orbital lob is worth putting up with fubar-world for a while yet. Besides, my grandchildren probably wouldn’t like me as a weirdo hermit (or they might, who knows?).

63 Skip Intro  Aug 19, 2014 2:01:54pm

Let me try this again. Is Shaun King saying that the prosecutor is going before the Grand Jury with a bill of indictment against Michael Brown? If so, how does a dead man prepare a defense?

Perhaps I’m just tired and confused and should take a nap.

64 Targetpractice  Aug 19, 2014 2:02:23pm

re: #61 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

So? You’re repeating this to indicate that the evidence has somehow been irreparably tainted, which it hasn’t. It is useless in the hands of the ole good boys network, that much is true. But it is there.

It’s there, but the prosecutor is ultimately the one who will decide whether or not to present it to the grand jury. And if the tweets up above are any indication, then he intends only to present Johnson, only to then present evidence intended to cast doubt on Johnson’s version of events.

65 Pie-onist Overlord  Aug 19, 2014 2:02:48pm

Teh Twitters is fucked up
I just saw a UniteBlue Tweet a TCOT meme:

66 Pie-onist Overlord  Aug 19, 2014 2:03:50pm

The Intercept is making it all about their employee (so-called “journalist”) instead of, you know, the situation in Ferguson

67 ObserverArt  Aug 19, 2014 2:04:06pm

re: #21 Charles Johnson

If the prosecutor really does this, the past week of unrest is going to look like a shuffleboard game.

And that is when it all goes national. Still got plenty of summer for another Hot Summer of Unrest throughout America.

68 Charles Johnson  Aug 19, 2014 2:04:39pm
69 klys  Aug 19, 2014 2:04:40pm

re: #51 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

Again, you repeat this like a mantra without giving any justifications. What evidence has been suppressed? The evidence are witnesses (perhaps autopsies too, if their interpretation is unambiguous). That one witness was not promptly interviewed means nothing, he can be interviewed later, and then in court, as can the rest of them.

Whether then there remains a reasonable doubt is up to the jury to decide.

At this point, because there has been so much discussion of the case publicly, any defense attorney worth their salt is going to point out that the eyewitness accounts could have been influenced by what they heard in the media. That is the value of having an account given to the authorities immediately, while the recollection is still fresh and uncontaminated by external discussions. Police know this, of course, which is what makes the fact that the St Louis County Police waited days to try to interview Dorian Johnson troubling. (Ferguson was never going to be the department handling the investigation since it involved one of their own officers, so the fact that they haven’t interviewed Johnson on this topic means nothing.)

Eyewitness accounts, when backed with physical evidence, are invaluable. However, I would hesitate to try a case solely on eyewitness accounts (even multiple ones) especially in a high profile case like this, because again, people are not infallible and it doesn’t take much to introduce reasonable doubt.

My biggest concern is what happened before the federal investigators got involved - what was done, what wasn’t done - because physical evidence is important for backing up the eyewitness testimony.

70 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Aug 19, 2014 2:05:10pm

re: #61 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

So? You’re repeating this to indicate that the evidence has somehow been irreparably tainted, which it hasn’t. It is useless in the hands of the ole good boys network, that much is true. But it is there.

the more distance they place between the event and the testimony, the more “reasonable doubt” can be established. That seems to be their tactic.

71 EPR-radar  Aug 19, 2014 2:06:16pm

re: #43 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

The local police department has done its job: by suppressing evidence, failing to promptly interview eyewitnesses and release reports and information, they have allowed enough “reasonable doubt” to creep in and prevent any sort of conviction.

Not so incidentally, all of this ‘fine work’ by FPD et al. was paid for by state and local taxes, which the residents of Ferguson pay just like everyone else.

72 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Aug 19, 2014 2:06:19pm

re: #64 Targetpractice

Sure, but this, again, has nothing to do with my objection to WZ’s incorrect mantra, which concerns the state of evidence, rather than what can be done with the evidence.

73 Pie-onist Overlord  Aug 19, 2014 2:07:39pm
74 SteveMcGazi  Aug 19, 2014 2:07:45pm

re: #8 Franklin

Yep, Mike Brown is going on trial…..

[Embedded content]

…and the beauty of a grand jury is that it’s sealed. The prosecutor’s actual arguments will never see the light of day.

75 Targetpractice  Aug 19, 2014 2:09:18pm

re: #72 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

Sure, but this, again, has nothing to do with my objection to WZ’s incorrect mantra, which concerns the state of evidence, rather than what can be done with the evidence.

Yet he’s exactly right, the longer the time between the event and the trial, the more a defense attorney has to work with in establishing reasonable doubt. We saw it with Zimmerman’s trial, where the defense put forward the idea that Trayvon’s girlfriend had not come forward but instead been coached into telling what the family wanted her to say to investigator. You put those witnesses on the stand now and the defense will say “Why didn’t you go to the police? Why didn’t you go to the FBI? Why go to the press?”

76 Kragar  Aug 19, 2014 2:09:58pm

Obama has shown repeatedly he will target terrorist leadership. ISIS is going to regret this day.

77 KerFuFFler  Aug 19, 2014 2:10:09pm

re: #51 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

Again, you repeat this like a mantra without giving any justifications. What evidence has been suppressed? The evidence are witnesses (perhaps autopsies too, if their interpretation is unambiguous). That one witness was not promptly interviewed means nothing, he can be interviewed later, and then in court, as can the rest of them.

Whether then there remains a reasonable doubt is up to the jury to decide.

The problem with such a prosecution is that usually the DA is trying to convict the defendant. In this instance, both the DA and the defense attorney would be angling to get Wilson off scott free. The DA might not call the actual witnesses to the stand——-and even if he does, the way he questions them could undermine their stories. In addition, the fact that the police department did not get witness statements promptly taints their testimony because one can reasonably believe that they invented their accounts after hearing other descriptions of what happened.

Seriously I hope the FBI is cataloging the intentional malfeasance in the handling of this case! All the colluding police should be investigated for civil rights violations or worse.

78 EPR-radar  Aug 19, 2014 2:10:32pm

re: #72 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

Sure, but this, again, has nothing to do with my objection to WZ’s incorrect mantra, which concerns the state of evidence, rather than what can be done with the evidence.

I think it is fair to say the the evidence itself can be degraded over time.

For example, it is objectively true that witness reports collected long after the original incident are more open to doubt than witness reports collected as soon as possible after the incident.

79 Pie-onist Overlord  Aug 19, 2014 2:10:43pm

re: #76 Kragar

Obama has shown repeatedly he will target terrorist leadership. ISIS is going to regret this day.

I can’t wait to read what Glenn Greenwald has to say about ISIS.

Haha jk I can wait.

80 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Aug 19, 2014 2:10:51pm

re: #72 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

Sure, but this, again, has nothing to do with my objection to WZ’s incorrect mantra, which concerns the state of evidence, rather than what can be done with the evidence.

“suppressing” was perhaps not the best term, but it seems that they intentionally failed to be to be prompt and thorough in collecting evidence and testimony and assuring that it could not be contested.

As if they had some interest in the case failing…

(now why would they do a thing like that?)

81 Bulworth  Aug 19, 2014 2:10:55pm

re:
#66

You mean it’s not?

///

82 EPR-radar  Aug 19, 2014 2:11:56pm

re: #77 KerFuFFler

The problem with such a prosecution is that usually the DA is trying to convict the defendant. In this instance, both the DA and the defense attorney would be angling to get Wilson off scott free. The DA might not call the actual witnesses to the stand——-and even if he does, the way he questions them could undermine their stories. In addition, the fact that the police department did not get witness statements promptly taints their testimony because one can reasonably believe that they invented their accounts after hearing other descriptions of what happened.

Seriously I hope the FBI is cataloging the intentional malfeasance in the handling of this case! All the colluding police should be investigated for civil rights violations or worse.

I agree 100% for that last part. We need to see some investigations of local officials for obstruction of justice, inciting riots, and conspiracy to cover up murder.

83 Dr. Matt  Aug 19, 2014 2:12:01pm

Ugh. Some Islamic twitter account is tweeting out the James Foley beheading video which is hosted on youtube right now. Fucking awful.

84 ObserverArt  Aug 19, 2014 2:13:25pm

re: #76 Kragar

Obama has shown repeatedly he will target terrorist leadership. ISIS is going to regret this day.

I was thinking the ISIL (ISIS) leaders already targeted themselves when they threatened to come to New York. Add in the systematic killing of opposing religions and now this and they are #1 with a bullet.

85 Franklin  Aug 19, 2014 2:13:29pm

Reading now

86 Shiplord Kirel  Aug 19, 2014 2:14:46pm

re: #76 Kragar

Obama has shown repeatedly he will target terrorist leadership. ISIS is going to regret this day.

They have a date with a SEAL team, whether they realize it or not.

87 BeachDem  Aug 19, 2014 2:15:05pm

re: #66 Pie-onist Overlord

The Intercept is making it all about their employee (so-called “journalist”) instead of, you know, the situation in Ferguson

[Embedded content]

And he’s been there ALMOST one whole day

And didn’t make it outside till 10 pm

(Sure didn’t take him long to get arrested)

88 ObserverArt  Aug 19, 2014 2:15:53pm

re: #78 EPR-radar

I think it is fair to say the the evidence itself can be degraded over time.

For example, it is objectively true that witness reports collected long after the original incident are more open to doubt than witness reports collected as soon as possible after the incident.

The one saving hope is all the witness testimony that was captured by video and sprayed all over the ‘net hours after the shooting. There is a great internet timeline for all of this case, up to and including all the ways the police have spammed the entire case from the get-go.

And who knows…maybe the NSA has it all recorded!

89 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Aug 19, 2014 2:16:02pm

re: #69 klys

Again, if eyewitnesses are not enough (an understandable stance), then the case would be a failure at any rate, with or without police interference. Unless a video of the whole incident is found, this was going to be a witness-based case from the start.

As for influence, again, this can be a factor with or without police interference, and this is for the jury to decide. A possibility of influence is offset by the number of independent witnesses. Not all of witness testimonies are gonna be standalone. One woman recorded her thoughts right after the killing, one guy tweeted crucial details right after the killing, the autopsies in general supported what the witnesses said, etc.

Complicating factors are always there. The police’s partial inaction might have made some of them worse, but the mindless repetition of the claim that somehow all evidence is now irreparably broken is just BS.

90 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Aug 19, 2014 2:17:50pm

re: #75 Targetpractice

And of course in Johnson’s case the answer is “nobody was interested in interviewing me”. Sorry, the argument doesn’t work.

91 Targetpractice  Aug 19, 2014 2:18:54pm

re: #90 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

And of course in Johnson’s case the answer is “nobody was interested in interviewing me”. Sorry, the argument doesn’t work.

FPD already covered that, they wanted to interview him but couldn’t get a hold of him. Even left a message with his attorney.

92 Bulworth  Aug 19, 2014 2:19:06pm

re:
#85

This will drive the TCOT RWNJ crazy, no matter what it says.

93 b.d.  Aug 19, 2014 2:20:05pm

WE SENT A REPORTER TO FERGUSON SO HE COULD WRITE ABOUT THE STUFF THAT HAPPENS TO HIM IN FERGUSON, THANKS PIERRE

94 A Mom Anon  Aug 19, 2014 2:22:17pm

re: #83 Dr. Matt

I shall look at pictures of German Shepherd puppies instead. The fuckers already have too much of the world’s attention. Not that they aren’t news, but we don’t really need torture and murder porn to know that. I’ll take the GSD puppies to calm my spirit.

My friend with stage 4 cancer will probably not survive the coming weekend. He’s stubborn and tough, he’s already outlived the predictions by a couple of weeks. But he’s fading fast. That’s all the death I care to deal with at the moment.

95 Kragar  Aug 19, 2014 2:23:42pm
96 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Aug 19, 2014 2:26:41pm

re: #80 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

There is no uncontestable testimony. One can always find a reason to dismiss it, however laughable. But the more testimonies are there from the people that don’t even know each other, the better, and the fact that they may not have been recorded immediately, becomes a bit less relevant.

Yes, with “later” testimonies the possibility of influence is more pronounced. But it’s still a mere possibility. Whether it rises to the level of probability (i.e. reasonable doubt) is for the jury to decide, after weighing the totality of evidence.

Yes, the police made things worse. No, the claim that it made the case unprosecutable is unfounded.

97 Kragar  Aug 19, 2014 2:27:06pm
98 Dr. Matt  Aug 19, 2014 2:28:05pm

re: #94 A Mom Anon

I shall look at pictures of German Shepherd puppies instead. .

After you finish with the puppy pics, may I suggest this much needed, and slightly amusing, distraction:

A Compilation Of People Fucking Up The Ice Bucket Challenge

99 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Aug 19, 2014 2:28:19pm

re: #91 Targetpractice

FPD already covered that, they wanted to interview him but couldn’t get a hold of him. Even left a message with his attorney.

When exactly?

100 Lidane  Aug 19, 2014 2:29:28pm

re: #76 Kragar

Obama has shown repeatedly he will target terrorist leadership. ISIS is going to regret this day.

I hope they regret it on the business end of a drone strike. Or a visit from a SEAL team.

Assholes.

101 darthstar  Aug 19, 2014 2:29:35pm

re: #87 BeachDem

And he’s been there ALMOST one whole day

[Embedded content]

(Sure didn’t take him long to get arrested)

When I saw the Intercept was sending in a human arrest target I thought, I hope it’s fucking Greenwald. But he’d probably send Miranda to get arrested for him.

102 EPR-radar  Aug 19, 2014 2:29:43pm

re: #96 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

There is no uncontestable testimony. One can always find a reason to dismiss it, however laughable. But the more testimonies are there from the people that don’t even know each other, the better, and the fact that they may not have been recorded immediately, becomes a bit less relevant.

Yes, with “later” testimonies the possibility of influence is more pronounced. But it’s still a mere possibility. Whether it rises to the level of probability (i.e. reasonable doubt) is for the jury to decide, after weighing the totality of evidence.

Yes, the police made things worse. No, the claim that it made the case unprosecutable is unfounded.

That last point is open to debate. How on earth would one get a reasonable jury seated in MO to hear this case?

Tainting the jury pool by trying Michael Brown in the media is a large part of what the Ferguson PD has been up to.

103 klys  Aug 19, 2014 2:30:07pm

re: #89 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

Again, if eyewitnesses are not enough (an understandable stance), then the case would be a failure at any rate, with or without police interference. Unless a video of the whole incident is found, this was going to be a witness-based case from the start.

As for influence, again, this can be a factor with or without police interference, and this is for the jury to decide. A possibility of influence is offset by the number of independent witnesses. Not all of witness testimonies are gonna be standalone. One woman recorded her thoughts right after the killing, one guy tweeted crucial details right after the killing, the autopsies in general supported what the witnesses said, etc.

Complicating factors are always there. The police’s partial inaction might have made some of them worse, but the mindless repetition of the claim that somehow all evidence is now irreparably broken is just BS.

I did talk about the importance of physical evidence backing up eyewitness testimony. I have not said anywhere that I think all evidence is somehow irreparably broken - and I don’t believe it is. It might be sufficient to convict someone other than a cop. I did, however, want to respond to your assertion that:

re: #51 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

That one witness was not promptly interviewed means nothing, he can be interviewed later, and then in court, as can the rest of them.

There are strong reasons why police want to obtain eyewitness accounts as soon after the fact as possible. This is part of investigation 101. I don’t believe those reasons should be disregarded.

Any case against a cop needs to be airtight in order to succeed. I suspect this one is not measuring up to that standard.

104 Targetpractice  Aug 19, 2014 2:32:21pm

re: #99 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

When exactly?

According to the FPD, between the time of the shooting and last Tuesday, they’d tried to get in touch with him but had been “unable” to.

105 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Aug 19, 2014 2:35:03pm

re: #102 EPR-radar

Has any case ever been declined to go before a jury because it was too (in)famous?

106 KerFuFFler  Aug 19, 2014 2:39:14pm

re: #96 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

Yes, with “later” testimonies the possibility of influence is more pronounced. But it’s still a mere possibility. Whether it rises to the level of probability (i.e. reasonable doubt) is for the jury to decide, after weighing the totality of evidence.

Reasonable doubt does require something has to be probable. For some people something has to be an extremely remote possibility before they are willing to disregard it.

107 EPR-radar  Aug 19, 2014 2:40:51pm

re: #105 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

Has any case ever been declined to go before a jury because it was too (in)famous?

I don’t know the answer to that question.

However, I do know what happened in the trial of the LAPD officers that perpetrated the Rodney King beating.

A change of venue to Simi valley was approved because of high media coverage in LA county. There a jury including no African-Americans handed down verdicts of not guilty that pretty much initiated the 1992 LA riots.

108 BeachDem  Aug 19, 2014 2:41:01pm

re: #104 Targetpractice

According to the FPD, between the time of the shooting and last Tuesday, they’d tried to get in touch with him but had been “unable” to.

And he was on MSNBC during that time, so apparently Rachel’s staff didn’t have any trouble finding him.

109 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Aug 19, 2014 2:41:50pm

re: #103 klys

There are strong reasons why police want to obtain eyewitness accounts as soon after the fact as possible

Of course. I don’t see anyone contesting this.

Any case against a cop needs to be airtight in order to succeed. I suspect this one is not measuring up to that standard.

It’s possible that it’s not air-tight. It’s possible that it could never be air-tight in the first place, for purely objective reasons. It is, however, also possible that there is enough evidence to try to convict the cop.

110 Lidane  Aug 19, 2014 2:43:23pm

re: #104 Targetpractice

According to the FPD, between the time of the shooting and last Tuesday, they’d tried to get in touch with him but had been “unable” to.

If you think about it, they’re telling the truth. They really were unable to talk to him.

When you’re working hard to help your buddy get away with murder, you’re not able to talk to the one guy who could blow holes in your argument.

111 BeachDem  Aug 19, 2014 2:43:24pm

re: #105 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

Has any case ever been declined to go before a jury because it was too (in)famous?

Are you talking about a trial jury or the grand jury?

At the grand jury, only the prosecution presents and they decide what they want to present. I anticipate that McCulloch will go in with some half-assed bullshit, the grand jury won’t indict, and McCulloch can throw up hands and say, “Hey, I tried—the evidence just wasn’t there.”

112 OhNoZombies!  Aug 19, 2014 2:46:09pm

re: #104 Targetpractice

According to the FPD, between the time of the shooting and last Tuesday, they’d tried to get in touch with him but had been “unable” to.

This is what I tell my hubby when I “forget” to call his mother about something.
//

113 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Aug 19, 2014 2:46:43pm

re: #106 KerFuFFler

Reasonable doubt does require something has to be probable. For some people something has to be an extremely remote possibility before they are willing to disregard it.

Sure, that’s why there are juries - so that people can decide this based on their own experience/common sense (and, yes, unfortunately prejudices). I wouldn’t want to pre-decide the remoteness of this particular possibility for a jury. If they decide that it does rise to the level of reasonable doubt, then so be it

114 klys  Aug 19, 2014 2:46:44pm

re: #109 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

Of course. I don’t see anyone contesting this.

I’m glad we agree, since saying that it “means nothing” that the cops didn’t interview one of the key eyewitnesses to the whole thing within 24 hours could lead to a different interpretation.

It’s possible that it’s not air-tight. It’s possible that it could never be air-tight in the first place, for purely objective reasons. It is, however, also possible that there is enough evidence to try to convict the cop.

With all due respect, this is looking at the justice system from an idealized perspective and not taking into account the reality of trying a cop for actions that occurred during the course of his duties. The playing field is incredibly slanted even before we take into account that the victim in this case is black.

I agree that your view is what it should be, but that’s very different from what it is. Which is probably the main disconnect between what you are saying and what other posters are expressing.

115 Rightwingconspirator  Aug 19, 2014 2:47:09pm

re: #69 klys

re: #96 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

Hey what gets me is the physical evidence factor. CSI the show is fiction of course but blood spatter perhaps with footprints can establish movement. Distances.

How much was allowed to wash away left unmeasured, not photographed ? We have witnesses all over the place in every sense of the term. This case should depend on physical evidence then witness reports.

it’s just a damn mess now.

116 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Aug 19, 2014 2:48:00pm

re: #111 BeachDem

I take it that a grand jury is more or less for a show. Talking about a real jury.

117 klys  Aug 19, 2014 2:48:25pm

re: #116 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

I take it that a grand jury is more or less for a show. Talking about a real jury.

It doesn’t get to the point of a real jury unless the grand jury says go, so no, it’s not just for a show.

118 Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 19, 2014 2:49:38pm
119 danarchy  Aug 19, 2014 2:50:14pm

re: #117 klys

It doesn’t get to the point of a real jury unless the grand jury says go, so no, it’s not just for a show.

I heard in MO the prosecutor has the option to bypass the grand jury and bring the case on his own prerogative. So in this case the grand jury really isn’t necessary.

120 Targetpractice  Aug 19, 2014 2:50:16pm

re: #118 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

First they have to find him.

121 Lidane  Aug 19, 2014 2:50:20pm

re: #118 Backwoods_Sleuth

My surprise, etc.

122 klys  Aug 19, 2014 2:50:49pm

re: #119 danarchy

I heard in MO the prosecutor has the option to bypass the grand jury and bring the case on his own prerogative. So in this case the grand jury really isn’t necessary.

We’d need a different prosecutor first. The current one has said he’s going to the grand jury.

123 EPR-radar  Aug 19, 2014 2:50:52pm

re: #115 Rightwingconspirator

Hey what gets me is the physical evidence factor. CSI the show is fiction of course but blood spatter perhaps with footprints can establish movement. Distances.

How much was allowed to wash away left unmeasured, not photographed ? We have witnesses all over the place in every sense of the term. This case should depend on physical evidence then witness reports.

it’s just a damn mess now.

This result that the investigation has been more or less compromised is exactly what the Ferguson PD has been working toward since the first moments after the shooting.

None of the reported actions of the Ferguson PD provide any evidence of a proper investigation by the Ferguson PD.

124 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Aug 19, 2014 2:51:18pm

re: #114 klys

Basically, what you are saying amounts to “unless there is a clear video of the shooting, the cop walks free”. Maybe so, but then whatever actions the FPD undertook are pretty irrelevant.

125 danarchy  Aug 19, 2014 2:51:31pm

re: #120 Targetpractice

First they have to find him.

Saw a report earlier that he is still in the greater St. Louis area under 24 hour police protection. Don’t remember where that was now…

126 Targetpractice  Aug 19, 2014 2:51:54pm

re: #119 danarchy

I heard in MO the prosecutor has the option to bypass the grand jury and bring the case on his own prerogative. So in this case the grand jury really isn’t necessary.

In states where there is no requirement to take capital cases before a grand jury, a prosecutor choosing to forgo such is usually seen as taking a risk, as the assumption is that if they don’t feel the evidence strong enough to convince a grand jury, then convincing a trial jury where the defense will be able to cross-examine and offer their own exculpatory evidence will be a gamble.

127 Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 19, 2014 2:52:15pm

Not sure how the wingnuts are going to be able to digest the fact that Wilson is a union guy…

128 BeenHereAwhile  Aug 19, 2014 2:52:19pm

re: #43 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

The local police department has done its job: by suppressing evidence, failing to promptly interview eyewitnesses and release reports and information, they have allowed enough “reasonable doubt” to creep in and prevent any sort of conviction.

Meanwhile the FBI is interviewing witnesses and writing 302s.

Could be some obstruction of justice charges in the future for some folk.

Nothing complicates your life like a federal indictment.

129 EPR-radar  Aug 19, 2014 2:52:36pm

re: #122 klys

We’d need a different prosecutor first. The current one has said he’s going to the grand jury.

Very convenient. A corrupt prosecutor can take an intentionally weakened case to the grand jury, and then pretend that the resulting lack of an indictment reflects the will of the grand jury as opposed to his own agenda.

130 Lidane  Aug 19, 2014 2:53:02pm

re: #127 Backwoods_Sleuth

Not sure how the wingnuts are going to be able to digest the fact that Wilson is a union guy…

He emptied his gun into a blah thug. They’ll deal with it.

131 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Aug 19, 2014 2:53:31pm

re: #119 danarchy

I heard in MO the prosecutor has the option to bypass the grand jury and bring the case on his own prerogative. So in this case the grand jury really isn’t necessary.

Exactly.

132 klys  Aug 19, 2014 2:54:01pm

re: #124 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

Basically, what you are saying amounts to “unless there is a clear video of the shooting, the cop walks free”. Maybe so, but then whatever actions the FPD undertook are pretty irrelevant.

I’m saying it’s really pretty hard to convict a cop, and so having all the ts crossed and is dotted is important.

I think we could agree that the investigation (which, again, is not in FPD’s hands) has not done that.

133 Lidane  Aug 19, 2014 2:55:25pm

re: #129 EPR-radar

Very convenient. A corrupt prosecutor can take an intentionally weakened case to the grand jury, and then pretend that the resulting lack of an indictment reflects the will of the grand jury as opposed to his own agenda.

Exactly.

The fix has been in on this case from the start. The prosecutor can take some half-assed bullshit to the grand jury and pretend he did everything he could when they laugh him out of court.

134 BeenHereAwhile  Aug 19, 2014 2:55:50pm

re: #118 Backwoods_Sleuth

JUST IN: Ferguson officer Darren Wilson has been provided legal counsel through the Fraternal Order of Police’s local union office in StL

Providing legal counsel for police officers is SOP for FOP Unions.

It’s one of the benefits.

135 Danny  Aug 19, 2014 2:56:01pm

re: #119 danarchy

I heard in MO the prosecutor has the option to bypass the grand jury and bring the case on his own prerogative. So in this case the grand jury really isn’t necessary.

This is true but it is a much higher bar for the DA’s prosecutor to get over if the Grand Jury does not indict.

136 Targetpractice  Aug 19, 2014 2:56:37pm

I believe it was noted downstairs that a cop in MO is authorized to use deadly force to bring down a fleeing suspect if he believes they present a danger to the community. And that seems to be the point to releasing the video to the press as well as concocting the “charged him” bit, the suggestion that Brown was out of control and presented a physical danger to others.

137 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Aug 19, 2014 2:57:39pm

re: #132 klys

From the way you describe things, it really is irrelevant whether they interrogated DJ in the first 24 hours. What is a black guy’s testimony (esp. if he’s a “biased” witness) gonna establish in the picture you drew? Exactly nothing.

138 EPR-radar  Aug 19, 2014 2:59:45pm

re: #134 BeenHereAwhile

Providing legal counsel for police officers is SOP for FOP Unions.

It’s one of the benefits.

Like anyone else facing criminal charges, Officer Wilson deserves competent counsel. Providing such counsel is a perfectly reasonable thing for a police union to do. After all, I want Office Wilson to have his day in court in a fair trial.

139 psddluva4evah  Aug 19, 2014 3:01:27pm

re: #32 Skip Intro

not Zimmerman, but there is this

140 klys  Aug 19, 2014 3:01:42pm

re: #137 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

From the way you describe things, it really is irrelevant whether they interrogated DJ in the first 24 hours. What is a black guy’s testimony (esp. if he’s a “biased” witness) gonna establish in the picture you drew? Exactly nothing.

If they had actually cared about any shot at conviction, even small, they would have done simple little things like interviewing key eyewitnesses within a reasonable time period. They didn’t, and handed the defense lawyer (assuming, again, that this makes it to trial) a giant fucking hole to drive a truck through.

That is part of what is driving the attitude of the posters on this case. I disagree with how far some people take it, but I can understand where they’re coming from.

141 Targetpractice  Aug 19, 2014 3:02:28pm

re: #139 psddluva4evah

not Zimmerman, but there is this

[Embedded content]

Unfortunately, Michael Brown will not be able to speak in his defense.

142 Danny  Aug 19, 2014 3:04:12pm

re: #129 EPR-radar

Very convenient. A corrupt prosecutor can take an intentionally weakened case to the grand jury, and then pretend that the resulting lack of an indictment reflects the will of the grand jury as opposed to his own agenda.

I doubt this is what will happen where a parallel DoJ investigation will be releasing the same evidence. But who knows?

143 Kragar  Aug 19, 2014 3:05:31pm

re: #139 psddluva4evah

not Zimmerman, but there is this

[Embedded content]

Mike Brown is unavailable for comments.

144 Decatur Deb  Aug 19, 2014 3:08:18pm

CNN showing Gov Perry’s mugshot.

145 EPR-radar  Aug 19, 2014 3:10:27pm

re: #139 psddluva4evah

OK, I have a basic question here —— what is this nonsense about the potential subject of a grand jury indictment testifying to the grand jury?

The usual way a grand jury works is that the prosecutor presents a case and the grand jury decides if it can go to trial (i.e., whether or not there is probable cause to try the accused). Since only one side of the story is told by the prosecutor, it is notoriously easy to get grand jury indictments. E.g., the old joke about how a competent prosecutor could get a grand jury to indict a ham sandwich.

If Officer Wilson gets to plead his case for innocence to the grand jury, that would be another telling sign that the fix is in.

146 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Aug 19, 2014 3:10:42pm

re: #140 klys

Basically, the conclusion I’m drawing from this is that the systemic problems here seem to far outweigh whatever considerations about the relative weight of evidence and its defects one might have.

147 Danny  Aug 19, 2014 3:12:10pm

re: #145 EPR-radar

All Grand Juries allow the defense to present.

148 BeachDem  Aug 19, 2014 3:13:26pm

re: #126 Targetpractice

In states where there is no requirement to take capital cases before a grand jury, a prosecutor choosing to forgo such is usually seen as taking a risk, as the assumption is that if they don’t feel the evidence strong enough to convince a grand jury, then convincing a trial jury where the defense will be able to cross-examine and offer their own exculpatory evidence will be a gamble.

And I believe that is what the prosecutor in FL did on the Zimmerman case. (And, in my opinion, over-charged, presented a terrible case, and wanted him to walk)

149 Decatur Deb  Aug 19, 2014 3:13:48pm

re: #147 Danny

All Grand Juries allow the defense to present.

Not sure of that. Indictments for mafiosi and such not in custody are sometimes ‘sealed’.

150 nines09  Aug 19, 2014 3:14:15pm

OT but a break from the insanity.
Live Ospreys. I expect one of the other two to show up shortly with fish. You can leave the window open and with your sound up you will hear a ruckus when food shows up. This young one is getting antsy.

151 Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 19, 2014 3:14:29pm

And YouTube has taken down the video.

152 ausador  Aug 19, 2014 3:14:34pm

re: #147 Danny

All Grand Juries allow the defense to present.

Defendants usually chose not to testify before grand juries, but you do have the right to if you want to do so.

153 Danny  Aug 19, 2014 3:15:48pm

re: #149 Decatur Deb

All Grand Jury proceedings are sealed.

154 Stanley Sea  Aug 19, 2014 3:16:18pm

re: #144 Decatur Deb

CNN showing Gov Perry’s mugshot.

Smiling?

155 klys  Aug 19, 2014 3:16:25pm

re: #147 Danny

All Grand Juries allow the defense to present.

There is no judge present and frequently there are no lawyers except for the prosecutor. The prosecutor will explain the law to the jury and work with them to gather evidence and hear testimony. Under normal courtroom rules of evidence, exhibits and other testimony must adhere to strict rules before admission. However, a grand jury had broad power to see and hear almost anything they would like.

Source.

156 BeachDem  Aug 19, 2014 3:17:18pm

re: #133 Lidane

Exactly.

The fix has been in on this case from the start. The prosecutor can take some half-assed bullshit to the grand jury and pretend he did everything he could when they laugh him out of court.

GMTA—I used the same exact phrase in 111—I anticipate that McCulloch will go in with some half-assed bullshit, the grand jury won’t indict, and McCulloch can throw up hands and say, “Hey, I tried—the evidence just wasn’t there.”

157 Danny  Aug 19, 2014 3:17:58pm

re: #155 klys

Frequently

158 EPR-radar  Aug 19, 2014 3:18:07pm

re: #155 klys

I’m also seeing a disconnect here. Per wikipedia (not 100% reliable, but hopefully good for something as basic as this), “the defendant has no right to present his case or (in many instances) to be informed of the proceedings at all”

159 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Aug 19, 2014 3:18:19pm

re: #155 klys

Do you think a protocol will be available?

160 Decatur Deb  Aug 19, 2014 3:18:28pm

re: #154 Stanley Sea

Smiling?

Not finding yet.

161 klys  Aug 19, 2014 3:19:26pm

re: #157 Danny

Frequently

In a court context, saying that the defense can present has a very specific meaning which is not true in a grand jury context. It is possible that the prosecutor can call a defendant to testify, but there is no lawyer for the defense present in the room itself.

162 BeachDem  Aug 19, 2014 3:21:02pm

re: #145 EPR-radar

I thought that was really odd as well. What, is Wilson going to be a witness for the prosecution? I don’t understand that at all.

I guess I’m wrong—the defendant can testify, but his lawyer can’t ask questions/

Won’t matter here, as McCulloch might as well be his lawyer.

163 psddluva4evah  Aug 19, 2014 3:22:33pm

Um…so then this means no…

164 ausador  Aug 19, 2014 3:22:52pm

The Decision To Testify Before A Grand Jury

There is no judge and the defense attorney has no right to speak or argue on behalf of his or her client. The Defendant does however have the right to testify on his own behalf and to offer witnesses (the jurors may vote on whether they want to hear from the defense witnesses). It is rare for a defendant to testify as his attorney does not conduct the questioning and there is no judge to rule on objections. But there are the rare occasions in which a defendant testifies before the Grand Jury. It is a strategic decision that can make or break a case.

Rules may vary somewhat by state, don’t know.

165 Danny  Aug 19, 2014 3:23:32pm

re: #161 klys

You’re right, I stand corrected. (IANAL etc)

166 psddluva4evah  Aug 19, 2014 3:24:13pm
167 klys  Aug 19, 2014 3:24:16pm

re: #165 Danny

You’re right, I stand corrected. (IANAL etc)

That’s cool, just wanted to clear up the court terminology. Lawyers get picky about that, not that I’m one either.

:)

168 Decatur Deb  Aug 19, 2014 3:24:36pm

re: #164 ausador

The Decision To Testify Before A Grand Jury

From what I’m seeing, someone isn’t a ‘defendant’ until arraigned.

I WANT A LAWYER!!

169 EPR-radar  Aug 19, 2014 3:25:57pm

For what it is worth, a link to relevant MO state law on grand juries.

moga.mo.gov

As far as I can see, this is the standard prosecutor-led grand jury, and nothing here suggests that defendants are even notified of the proceedings or have a right to present their case to the grand jury.

170 dog philosopher  Aug 19, 2014 3:27:44pm

re: #144 Decatur Deb

CNN showing Gov Perry’s mugshot.

i allus knew he wuz a mug

171 Mattand  Aug 19, 2014 3:29:09pm

Apparently, the Magic Balance Fairy is running editorial at CNN today. Did you know support for the cop who shot Mike Brown is growing?

Fuckin’ idiots.

172 Floral Giraffe  Aug 19, 2014 3:30:37pm

re: #68 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

And that is VERY much what this whole situation has reminded me of, since the start. I hope somehow calm will prevail.

173 TedStriker  Aug 19, 2014 3:30:56pm

re: #138 EPR-radar

Like anyone else facing criminal charges, Officer Wilson deserves competent counsel. Providing such counsel is a perfectly reasonable thing for a police union to do. After all, I want Office Wilson to have his day in court in a fair trial.

Too bad Wilson didn’t allow Brown to receive the same courtesy.

174 BeachDem  Aug 19, 2014 3:33:43pm

re: #171 Mattand

Apparently, the Magic Balance Fairy is running editorial at CNN today. Did you know support for the cop who shot Mike Brown is growing?

Fuckin’ idiots.

Might it be because CNN ran the “Josie” arc non-stop all day yesterday? (Remember, Anderson Cooper didn’t regret falling into the Josie vortex until after his Josie show.)

175 Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 19, 2014 3:33:56pm

Science!

176 WhatEVs  Aug 19, 2014 3:34:08pm

re: #145 EPR-radar

If what has been tweeted above is correct, the only person who might get an indictment by the grand jury is the dead kid.

177 dog philosopher  Aug 19, 2014 3:35:02pm

Gaza truce collapses, fighting erupts, Israel orders negotiators home

old news now and only warrants below the fold…

178 ausador  Aug 19, 2014 3:35:30pm

re: #171 Mattand

Apparently, the Magic Balance Fairy is running editorial at CNN today. Did you know support for the cop who shot Mike Brown is growing?

Fuckin’ idiots.

When their ratings went in the toilet they appear to have decided to become “Fox News Lite” in order to compete with the king of the hill (Fox). The problem with that strategy is that the wingnuts hate and distrust CNN almost as much as they do MSNBC.

All they have succeeded in doing is pissing off everyone because they are too left for the right and too right for the left. Maybe they need to go back to just reporting the news and leave off the spin designed to appeal to a particular demographic. Is being number three in the ratings really all that terrible?

179 klys  Aug 19, 2014 3:36:14pm

Some more useful facts, albiet from the Greene County Prosecutor’s Office (because they have it nicely spelled out and the important bits should be the same statewide):

If someone is arrested, they must be released within 24 hours unless there is a warrant issued by a judge. The arrest warrant is issued if there are sufficient facts to show probable cause that a felony has been committed by the defendant. In other words, the felony charges must have been filed to obtain an arrest warrant.

If in a clear cut situation, it may be that the officers can arrest someone and get the warrant after the fact but before the 24 hours is up; that part is less clear to me.

180 Charles Johnson  Aug 19, 2014 3:36:56pm
181 BeachDem  Aug 19, 2014 3:37:12pm

re: #169 EPR-radar

For what it is worth, a link to relevant MO state law on grand juries.

moga.mo.gov

As far as I can see, this is the standard prosecutor-led grand jury, and nothing here suggests that defendants are even notified of the proceedings or have a right to present their case to the grand jury.

In Missouri

GRAND JURY
A grand jury replaces the preliminary
hearing in certain cases as a method by
which criminal charges can be filed. A grand
jury is a panel of private citizens, chosen in
a manner similar to the way in which trial
juries are chosen, whose job is to look into
allegations of criminal activity.
The prosecutor presents evidence to the
12 grand jurors, nine of whom must agree
on whether a crime was committed and
whether there is probable cause to believe
the defendant committed it.
As with a preliminary hearing, the case
is either bound over to the circuit court or
the defendant is freed.
Grand jury proceedings are closed to the
public. Defendants do not attend unless they
are testifying as witnesses.

182 Decatur Deb  Aug 19, 2014 3:37:41pm

re: #180 Charles Johnson

This is how bullshit from @gatewaypundit spreads: RT @DRUDGE_REPORT: REPORT: Officer Suffered ‘Orbital Blowout Fracture to Eye Socket’…

Well-worn path.

183 Charles Johnson  Aug 19, 2014 3:37:42pm
184 Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 19, 2014 3:38:53pm
185 klys  Aug 19, 2014 3:39:32pm

re: #184 Backwoods_Sleuth

He wore a tie! Clearly presidential material.

/////

186 Decatur Deb  Aug 19, 2014 3:39:47pm

re: #184 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

He has nice hair.

187 psddluva4evah  Aug 19, 2014 3:39:58pm

re: #184 Backwoods_Sleuth

let the meme begin

188 klys  Aug 19, 2014 3:40:28pm
189 Danny  Aug 19, 2014 3:40:31pm

re: #179 klys

If in a clear cut situation, it may be that the officers can arrest someone and get the warrant after the fact but before the 24 hours is up; that part is less clear to me.

I think most arrests are made without a warrant using probable cause.

190 b.d.  Aug 19, 2014 3:40:50pm

re: #184 Backwoods_Sleuth

[Embedded content]

A TRUE CONSERVATIVE

191 WhatEVs  Aug 19, 2014 3:41:29pm

re: #178 ausador

CNN can’t do that because the majority of people who watch news prefer to see reinforcement of their own bias.

CNN is good for plane crashes. Oh wait.

192 klys  Aug 19, 2014 3:41:34pm

re: #189 Danny

I think most arrests are made without a warrant using probable cause.

Yeah, but they do have to go to the judge within that 24 hours and get it done after the fact.

In a case like this, that wasn’t going to get resolved in that time frame.

193 ausador  Aug 19, 2014 3:41:41pm

re: #186 Decatur Deb

He has nice good hair.

FTFY

194 b.d.  Aug 19, 2014 3:42:42pm

re: #187 psddluva4evah

[Embedded content]

Where are his glasses?

195 Decatur Deb  Aug 19, 2014 3:42:57pm

re: #193 ausador

FTFY

Avoiding the cliche.

196 BeachDem  Aug 19, 2014 3:43:28pm

re: #183 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

And then CNN will have a panel—“Orbital blowout fracture—did it impair Wilson’s shooting or not? Our expert, Dr. Oz will explain.”

197 Decatur Deb  Aug 19, 2014 3:43:32pm

re: #194 b.d.

Where are his glasses?

Wish they’d taken his belt and shoelaces, too.

198 Skip Intro  Aug 19, 2014 3:44:18pm

re: #127 Backwoods_Sleuth

Not sure how the wingnuts are going to be able to digest the fact that Wilson is a union guy…

They’ll have no problem at all because this is a “good” union.

199 b.d.  Aug 19, 2014 3:44:56pm

re: #198 Skip Intro

They’ll have no problem at all because this is a “good” union.

And he’ll probably be defended by a “trial lawyer” too.

200 Pie-onist Overlord  Aug 19, 2014 3:44:57pm

re: #144 Decatur Deb

CNN showing Gov Perry’s mugshot.

HURR HURR!!!!! HE IS MOAR BETTER LOOKING THEN ROSEMARY LEHMBERG!!!!! HAHA U LUSE LIBTARDS!!!!

201 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Aug 19, 2014 3:45:12pm

re: #197 Decatur Deb

Wish they’d taken his belt and shoelaces, too.

I wish he had to show his identifying tattoo: one of the PowerPuff girls.

202 psddluva4evah  Aug 19, 2014 3:45:40pm

re: #194 b.d.

re: #184 Backwoods_Sleuth

I thought you had to take mugshots without glasses?

203 ausador  Aug 19, 2014 3:46:35pm

re: #188 klys

Brian Vastag ✔ @brianvastag

Well, @twitter is now putting pictures of beheading into my feed from accounts I don’t follow b/c someone else favorited. Yuck x 1000.
5:26 PM - 19 Aug 2014

Yeah, THIS change is bullshit twitter…DO NOT WANT!

204 b.d.  Aug 19, 2014 3:46:49pm

re: #200 Pie-onist Overlord

HURR HURR!!!!! HE IS MOAR BETTER LOOKING THEN ROSEMARY LEHMBERG!!!!! HAHA U LUSE LIBTARDS!!!!

[Embedded content]

I wonder which one is drunker?

205 Mike Lamb  Aug 19, 2014 3:47:04pm

re: #89 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

Again, if eyewitnesses are not enough (an understandable stance), then the case would be a failure at any rate, with or without police interference. Unless a video of the whole incident is found, this was going to be a witness-based case from the start.

As for influence, again, this can be a factor with or without police interference, and this is for the jury to decide. A possibility of influence is offset by the number of independent witnesses. Not all of witness testimonies are gonna be standalone. One woman recorded her thoughts right after the killing, one guy tweeted crucial details right after the killing, the autopsies in general supported what the witnesses said, etc.

Complicating factors are always there. The police’s partial inaction might have made some of them worse, but the mindless repetition of the claim that somehow all evidence is now irreparably broken is just BS.

But it’s not just witness based testimony. And some information has not been released, if not suppressed—for example, where’s the incident report?

Have they attempted to collect/preserve electronic data—i.e. Tweets happening concurrently with events?

What about releasing selective material and it’s resulting impact on the jury pool?

Was there a medical report for Officer Wilson that corroborates/contradicts Wilson’s apparent story that he was injured in some fashion in a scuffle with Brown?

Did the police do any investigation of Wilson’s vehicle that would support/contradict the notion of a struggle?

Did the police make any effort to locate bullets that allegedly missed Brown as he fled?

Have the police released any ballistic information? They are in the best position to state how many shots were fired by Wilson.

So your position that the evidence is “all there” may not be accurate.

206 psddluva4evah  Aug 19, 2014 3:47:05pm

re: #185 klys

and it’s NOT a red tie…RINO!

207 b.d.  Aug 19, 2014 3:47:50pm

re: #206 psddluva4evah

and it’s NOT a red tie…RINO!

Perry should have worn a tri-corner hat and a Gadsden Flag tattooed on his forehead.

208 Boyo  Aug 19, 2014 3:48:02pm
209 Pie-onist Overlord  Aug 19, 2014 3:49:23pm

Wingnuts are now spamming this random CT scan illustration (taken from DimJim) as TEH OFFICIAL EYE SOCKET BLOWOUT!!!!!! which, if it actually was the “official eye socket blowout” would mean DimJim broke a number of laws obtaining & publishing it.

210 Skip Intro  Aug 19, 2014 3:50:04pm

re: #199 b.d.

And he’ll probably be defended by a “trial lawyer” too.

I think his trial lawyer is pretending to be the prosecutor before the Grand Jury.

If he goes to trial at all, it will be because the Feds step in.

211 klys  Aug 19, 2014 3:50:48pm

re: #209 Pie-onist Overlord

Wingnuts are now spamming this random CT scan illustration (taken from DimJim) as TEH OFFICIAL EYE SOCKET BLOWOUT!!!!!! which, if it actually was the “official eye socket blowout” would mean DimJim broke a number of laws obtaining & publishing it.

[Embedded content]

It’s from here, looks like.

212 BeachDem  Aug 19, 2014 3:51:13pm

re: #198 Skip Intro

They’ll have no problem at all because this is a “good” union.

Well, it’s good until they want benefits…or pensions…or medical care. Then they become “parasites on the public dole.”

213 GlutenFreeJesus  Aug 19, 2014 3:51:43pm

re: #209 Pie-onist Overlord

Wingnuts are now spamming this random CT scan illustration (taken from DimJim) as TEH OFFICIAL EYE SOCKET BLOWOUT!!!!!! which, if it actually was the “official eye socket blowout” would mean DimJim broke a number of laws obtaining & publishing it.

[Embedded content]

Google Image search the original. I bet you’ll find the source. I ant as I’m on my iPad.

214 GlutenFreeJesus  Aug 19, 2014 3:52:31pm

re: #211 klys

It’s from here, looks like.

Ah. Looks like someone was reading my mind. Good job!

215 Gus  Aug 19, 2014 3:52:41pm

re: #209 Pie-onist Overlord

Wingnuts are now spamming this random CT scan illustration (taken from DimJim) as TEH OFFICIAL EYE SOCKET BLOWOUT!!!!!! which, if it actually was the “official eye socket blowout” would mean DimJim broke a number of laws obtaining & publishing it.

[Embedded content]

Not even close.

216 Pie-onist Overlord  Aug 19, 2014 3:53:06pm

re: #211 klys

It’s from here, looks like.

Yeah I can see where DimJim blacked out the “Univ of Iowa”

217 Skip Intro  Aug 19, 2014 3:53:13pm

re: #212 BeachDem

The term “good” is time relative to the wingnuts. It’s good now because their guy benefits. It will be bad again once he no longer needs their help.

218 klys  Aug 19, 2014 3:53:14pm

re: #214 GlutenFreeJesus

Ah. Looks like someone was reading my mind. Good job!

Chrome makes it easy. They didn’t even bother to cut off the “Fig. 2” at the bottom.

219 psddluva4evah  Aug 19, 2014 3:53:57pm
220 Decatur Deb  Aug 19, 2014 3:54:52pm

re: #209 Pie-onist Overlord

Wingnuts are now spamming this random CT scan illustration (taken from DimJim) as TEH OFFICIAL EYE SOCKET BLOWOUT!!!!!! which, if it actually was the “official eye socket blowout” would mean DimJim broke a number of laws obtaining & publishing it.

[Embedded content]

The GWP photo is captioned ‘file photo’.

221 ausador  Aug 19, 2014 3:54:55pm

re: #209 Pie-onist Overlord

Wingnuts are now spamming this random CT scan illustration (taken from DimJim) as TEH OFFICIAL EYE SOCKET BLOWOUT!!!!!! which, if it actually was the “official eye socket blowout” would mean DimJim broke a number of laws obtaining & publishing it.

[Embedded content]

Knew they would do that, and no that is not officer Wilson’s x-ray, that is a picture used to illustrate an article here…
aapos.org

Their identical picture…
Not Officer Williams!

(lol, way too slow for this crowd)

222 Decatur Deb  Aug 19, 2014 3:55:48pm

re: #211 klys

It’s from here, looks like.

Yup. Or there’s a lot of that going around.

223 Mike Lamb  Aug 19, 2014 3:55:55pm

re: #180 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

I had a non-displaced fracture of my orbital bone after taking a baseball to my face that was thrown from 90 feet. While I didn’t get a black eye, I did get bleeding into my sinus, and out my nose (like a faucet). My eye swelled significantly. Zero vision out of that eye.

The idea that Wilson got clocked in the face hard enough to suffer a “blow out fracture”, and that he “didn’t know about it” because of the adrenaline is ludicrous.

224 Rightwingconspirator  Aug 19, 2014 3:56:46pm

re: #211 klys

It’s from here, looks like.

Good catch, lets watch the fur fly now

225 Eclectic Cyborg  Aug 19, 2014 3:56:47pm

re: #221 ausador

It’s one of the first photos that pops up on a google image search for “eye socket blowout fracture”

226 BeachDem  Aug 19, 2014 3:56:53pm

re: #209 Pie-onist Overlord

Wingnuts are now spamming this random CT scan illustration (taken from DimJim) as TEH OFFICIAL EYE SOCKET BLOWOUT!!!!!! which, if it actually was the “official eye socket blowout” would mean DimJim broke a number of laws obtaining & publishing it.

[Embedded content]

From the American Association for Pediatric Ophthalmology and Strabismus

aapos.org

They’re not even trying anymore.

(And once again, I’m slow on the draw)

227 Decatur Deb  Aug 19, 2014 3:57:53pm

re: #226 BeachDem

From the American Association for Pediatric Ophthalmology and Strabismus

aapos.org

They’re not even trying anymore.

Their audience isn’t very … demanding.

228 Skip Intro  Aug 19, 2014 3:58:01pm

re: #226 BeachDem

Great job!

229 Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 19, 2014 3:58:05pm

re: #226 BeachDem

From the American Association for Pediatric Ophthalmology and Strabismus

aapos.org

They’re not even trying anymore.

And there’s a copyright notice at the bottom of the AAPOS page.
idiots.

230 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Aug 19, 2014 3:59:00pm

re: #205 Mike Lamb

My position was that 1. the sufficient evidence is there; 2. the actions of the FPD or lack thereof did not make the evidence insufficient. It could be that things are as klys has described them, which would render all evidence insufficient (for the lack of, say, a video of the incident), but, again, regardless of the FDP actions. Which does not deny the fact that FDP tried to sabotage the case.

I don’t see the relevance of some of the items you describe, but in any case your list is circumstantial, and what is relevant in it, only serves as support for the eye-witness testimony.

231 Skip Intro  Aug 19, 2014 3:59:09pm

re: #221 ausador

Whoops. Great job to you too.

232 Decatur Deb  Aug 19, 2014 4:00:56pm

re: #225 Eclectic Cyborg

It’s one of the first photos that pops up on a google image search for “eye socket blowout fracture”

Can we make it throb?

233 Dr. Matt  Aug 19, 2014 4:00:59pm
234 goddamnedfrank  Aug 19, 2014 4:03:56pm

re: #209 Pie-onist Overlord

Wingnuts are now spamming this random CT scan illustration (taken from DimJim) as TEH OFFICIAL EYE SOCKET BLOWOUT!!!!!! which, if it actually was the “official eye socket blowout” would mean DimJim broke a number of laws obtaining & publishing it.

[Embedded content]

That image comes from the University of Iowa Medical Center website. It’s from an article: Assessment and Management of Ocular Trauma
Written by Sudeep Pramanik, M.B.A., M.D.

235 BeachDem  Aug 19, 2014 4:04:35pm

re: #227 Decatur Deb

No they aren’t are they—bless their hearts!

236 lawhawk  Aug 19, 2014 4:05:38pm

re: #226 BeachDem

Yes, this is an example taken directly from the aapos.org website (and several other medical sites have used this image as well) as an example of a blowout fracture. It’s not Officer Wilson’s x-ray, which if it had been released without Wilson’s consent, it would be a HIPAA violation.

So what have we learned? That Hoft is trying to tout that Wilson has a blowout fracture, and tries to lend it credence by attaching an image of a sample from the aapos site.

That’s despite the fact that there’s no actual proof other than his say-so.

But it’s great for muddying the waters and trying to blame Brown for the incident and that Wilson was fearful for his life and justified in killing Brown, even after witnesses indicate he sought to surrender.

237 Dr. Matt  Aug 19, 2014 4:05:41pm

So Williams went to the University of Iowa to get an x-ray but instead they did a contrast CT. Gotcha.

Image: 967_blowout_fracture_2.jpg

238 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Aug 19, 2014 4:06:25pm

re: #234 goddamnedfrank

That image comes from the University of Iowa Medical Center website. It’s from an article: Assessment and Management of Ocular Trauma
Written by Sudeep Pramanik, M.B.A., M.D.

Close-to-porn-name.

239 b.d.  Aug 19, 2014 4:06:37pm

re: #233 Dr. Matt

[Embedded content]

Can we superimpose the “eye socket blowout” picture with the Rick Perry booking photo? Someone? Anyone? Please?

240 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Aug 19, 2014 4:07:22pm

I’m going to have to get x-rays and scans and all that sort of shit of my neck and my arm and I’m not happy about it.

Thanks Obama Perry.

241 A Mom Anon  Aug 19, 2014 4:07:23pm

re: #234 goddamnedfrank

So is this making it back into Twitter on Hoft’s and Drudge’s accounts? Not that it matters to these paid liars, but still, I’d like to see hundreds of tweets on both their accounts with the truth posted.

Fucking twitter. It’s good for a lot of things, but damn does it spread lies all over the place fast. Worse than freaking Facebook.

242 Mike Lamb  Aug 19, 2014 4:07:56pm

re: #230 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

My position was that 1. the sufficient evidence is there; 2. the actions of the FPD or lack thereof did not make the evidence insufficient. It could be that things are as klys has described them, which would render all evidence insufficient (for the lack of, say, a video of the incident), but, again, regardless of the FDP actions. Which does not deny the fact that FDP tried to sabotage the case.

I don’t see the relevance of some of the items you describe, but in any case your list is circumstantial, and what is relevant in it, only serves as a support for eye-witness testimony.

Labeling a piece of evidence as “circumstantial” with the implication that it is less probative is not a good argument. Most evidence is “circumstantial”. Moreover, the crux of the defense is that the officer was threatened and was required to use deadly force. Evidence of a struggle inside the vehicle is far from “circumstantial”. Likewise, evidence that Wilson was or was not assaulted is crucial to both sides. Attorneys would much rather have objective evidence at their disposal vs. the imperfect recollections of an eye witness (or witnesses).

I think you also greatly under-estimate the burden the prosecutor has in establishing the elements of the particular crime “beyond a reasonable doubt”. To state that “all the evidence is there that is necessary for a conviction” (paraphrasing), is rather optimistic. Maybe at one point all evidence was available. FPD is doing everything it can to change that.

243 Varek Raith  Aug 19, 2014 4:08:31pm

re: #240 Fairly Sure I’m Still Obdicut

I’m going to have to get x-rays and scans and all that sort of shit of my neck and my arm and I’m not happy about it.

Thanks Obama Perry.

Ouch.

244 goddamnedfrank  Aug 19, 2014 4:11:49pm

re: #234 goddamnedfrank

That image comes from the University of Iowa Medical Center website. It’s from an article: Assessment and Management of Ocular Trauma
Written by Sudeep Pramanik, M.B.A., M.D.

Also that page was last updated 1-28-2008, so there’s absolutely no way that the CT image is from a purported injury to officer Wilson inflicted on August 9th of this year.

245 psddluva4evah  Aug 19, 2014 4:13:25pm

Time to brace myself for tomorrow and the rest of the week… Holder will be in Ferguson tomorrow.

We already know that the Federal autopsy happened yesterday, and they already have results and Holder has been briefed…let that sink in, the DOJ already has prelim autopsy results done and yet we STILL don’t know what was in the STL county autopsy, other than the weed and #of shots leak.

Add to that the report that Wilson will be allowed to testify at Grand Jury tomorrow and tell me this doesn’t stink to high heaven.

oh and this:

@PresReed
Prosecutor Bob McCulloch says he will recuse himself if ordered by Governor. #MikeBrown #Ferguson.”

I’ve never been so happy to have to go back to work. I’ve been sick for two days.

246 Boyo  Aug 19, 2014 4:14:45pm

I’ve never seen “muddying the waters” more in full effect than what is happening now with regards to Ferguson.

247 klys  Aug 19, 2014 4:15:06pm
248 Pie-onist Overlord  Aug 19, 2014 4:15:38pm
249 goddamnedfrank  Aug 19, 2014 4:15:39pm

Wingnuts don’t understand how TinEye and GIS work, think they can pass off old shit as new shit.

250 goddamnedfrank  Aug 19, 2014 4:16:39pm

re: #247 klys

[Embedded content]

WTF is that shit? Retarded mexican recusal standoff.

251 Dr. Matt  Aug 19, 2014 4:17:01pm

Sadly, these dipshits retweeting Wilson’s University of Iowa contrast CT/x-Ray are allowed to vote.

252 Pie-onist Overlord  Aug 19, 2014 4:17:09pm

re: #249 goddamnedfrank

Wingnuts don’t understand how TinEye and GIS work, think they can pass off old shit as new shit.

I still see OBAMA’S FOREIGN STUDENT COLUMBIA ID!!!!!!

253 BeachDem  Aug 19, 2014 4:17:47pm

re: #247 klys

[Embedded content]

Then I guess it’s a done deal. McCulloch won’t recuse unless Nixon asks and Nixon won’t order unless McCulloch asks.

Who’d a thunk it?

254 Charles Johnson  Aug 19, 2014 4:18:21pm
255 BeachDem  Aug 19, 2014 4:18:40pm

re: #249 goddamnedfrank

Wingnuts don’t understand how TinEye and GIS work, think they can pass off old shit as new shit.

FIFY

256 Targetpractice  Aug 19, 2014 4:19:35pm

re: #253 BeachDem

Then I guess it’s a done deal. McCulloch won’t recuse unless Nixon asks and Nixon won’t order unless McCulloch asks.

Who’d a thunk it?

Great excuse to make later when one or both are challenged to explain why a guy with such obvious bias was allowed to oversee the state case against Wilson. Nixon says “He didn’t ask me to have him removed,” and McCulloch says “I wasn’t asked to recuse myself.”

257 Pie-onist Overlord  Aug 19, 2014 4:20:21pm

HURR HURR LIBTARDS WHOSE TEH MOAR FUGLY NOW!!!!! U LUSE LIBTARDS!!!! RICK PERRY IS TEH MOAR HANDSOMER!!!!!

258 BeachDem  Aug 19, 2014 4:22:49pm

re: #257 Pie-onist Overlord

HURR HURR LIBTARDS WHOSE TEH MOAR FUGLY NOW!!!!! U LUSE LIBTARDS!!!! RICK PERRY IS TEH MOAR HANDSOMER!!!!!

[Embedded content]

The Democrats had a plan to compare mugshots? Nobody told me about it? (And why is Lehmberg supposed to be a racist?)

259 Targetpractice  Aug 19, 2014 4:23:23pm

re: #257 Pie-onist Overlord

HURR HURR LIBTARDS WHOSE TEH MOAR FUGLY NOW!!!!! U LUSE LIBTARDS!!!! RICK PERRY IS TEH MOAR HANDSOMER!!!!!

[Embedded content]

That’s their entire defense strategy: Make it all about a DA who’s not even involved in the case except as a victim. Portray it as a partisan case rather than the reality that Goodhair purposefully tried to extort the Travis County DA, then when that failed tried to bribe her, just so he could gain control over the agency in charge of keeping tabs on him and his donors.

260 Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 19, 2014 4:25:20pm

GOAT!

261 Varek Raith  Aug 19, 2014 4:26:25pm

re: #260 Backwoods_Sleuth

GOAT!

[Embedded content]

Heh.

262 Targetpractice  Aug 19, 2014 4:26:48pm

re: #260 Backwoods_Sleuth

GOAT!

[Embedded content]

The Men Who Ride With Goats.

/

263 psddluva4evah  Aug 19, 2014 4:27:30pm

Um…ok really, please tell me “I stand with rick” gonna be a thing

264 Danny  Aug 19, 2014 4:28:31pm

re: #242 Mike Lamb

I think you also greatly under-estimate the burden the prosecutor has in establishing the elements of the particular crime “beyond a reasonable doubt”. To state that “all the evidence is there that is necessary for a conviction” (paraphrasing), is rather optimistic. Maybe at one point all evidence was available. FPD is doing everything it can to change that.

Not sure if someone already said it but the Grand Jury doesn’t need “beyond a reasonable doubt” to indict. Just probable cause.

265 Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 19, 2014 4:28:32pm

re: #263 psddluva4evah

Um…ok really, please tell me “I stand with rick” gonna be a thing

[Embedded content]

Will it involve cardboard cutouts?

266 psddluva4evah  Aug 19, 2014 4:29:55pm
267 b.d.  Aug 19, 2014 4:30:02pm

re: #265 Backwoods_Sleuth

Will it involve cardboard cutouts?

And large puppets?

268 Mike Lamb  Aug 19, 2014 4:35:45pm

re: #264 Danny

Not sure if someone already said it but the Grand Jury doesn’t need “beyond a reasonable doubt” to indict. Just probable cause.

It was my understanding that the poster was speaking of evidence needed to convict, not indict.

269 Danny  Aug 19, 2014 4:37:55pm

re: #268 Mike Lamb

Ah, got it.

270 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator  Aug 19, 2014 4:37:59pm

re: #242 Mike Lamb

Labeling a piece of evidence as “circumstantial” with the implication that it is less probative is not a good argument. Most evidence is “circumstantial”.

Except of course you need a witness to tie that evidence together. Which is why the case would be about witnesses first and foremost.

Moreover, the crux of the defense is that the officer was threatened and was required to use deadly force. Evidence of a struggle inside the vehicle is far from “circumstantial”.

Given that both sides assume the struggle happened, I don’t see how evidence of this struggle happening is crucial.

Likewise, evidence that Wilson was or was not assaulted is crucial to both sides.

If you mean the alleged injury, then, while it’s important, its interpretation (if there was such an injury) also depends on testimony - is it “he assaulted me” or “the cop started it and got injured”?

Attorneys would much rather have objective evidence at their disposal vs. the imperfect recollections of an eye witness (or witnesses).

Except, once again, your list without any testimony is just an uninterpretable recitation of assorted observations.

I think you also greatly under-estimate the burden the prosecutor has in establishing the elements of the particular crime “beyond a reasonable doubt”. To state that “all the evidence is there that is necessary for a conviction” (paraphrasing), is rather optimistic. Maybe at one point all evidence was available. FPD is doing everything it can to change that.

My point is exactly that the original poster hasn’t shown that.

271 EPR-radar  Aug 19, 2014 4:40:16pm

re: #250 goddamnedfrank

WTF is that shit? Retarded mexican recusal standoff.

To hell with that noise. I hope Holder has been given the go-ahead to take over the murder case if necessary (which it surely it at this point).

272 WhatEVs  Aug 19, 2014 4:41:19pm

re: #234 goddamnedfrank

That image comes from the University of Iowa Medical Center website. It’s from an article: Assessment and Management of Ocular Trauma
Written by Sudeep Pramanik, M.B.A., M.D.

Oh noes! A furriner!

273 psddluva4evah  Aug 19, 2014 4:42:36pm

re: #247 klys

I was hoping this was snark. since Claire McC has been so good during all this.

274 Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 19, 2014 4:42:49pm

I’m not saying it’s a shark, but…

275 klys  Aug 19, 2014 4:43:17pm

re: #273 psddluva4evah

I think the McC is the prosecutor.

276 EPR-radar  Aug 19, 2014 4:45:52pm

re: #274 Backwoods_Sleuth

What did Sheriff Joe do this time to bring down the wrath of god? //

277 danarchy  Aug 19, 2014 4:47:08pm

re: #271 EPR-radar

To hell with that noise. I hope Holder has been given the go-ahead to take over the murder case if necessary (which it surely it at this point).

Can he even do that? I don’t think he has jurisdiction to take over the murder trial.

278 Charles Johnson  Aug 19, 2014 4:47:19pm
279 Kragar  Aug 19, 2014 4:47:24pm
280 De Kolta Chair  Aug 19, 2014 4:47:25pm

Tonight on the PBS Newshour, Judy Woodruff was too busy tsk-tsking the inhumanity of it all to inform her interviewee, a former cop and now CEO of a security firm, that his repeating the molotov cocktail myth was BS.

281 BeachDem  Aug 19, 2014 4:47:35pm

Can’t the Klan just get along? This is so sad, you guys…

Ku Klux Klan groups clash over Darren Wilson fundraiser ‘scam’

“This is not even a Klan member, they don’t even have their own legitimate website,” Traditionalist American Knights leader Frank Ancona was quoted as saying. “It’s a scam, he is just trying to capitalize on the situation.”

Ancona, a Klan “Imperial Wizard,” was referring to Charles “Chuck” Murray, the South Carolina man who said last week that his own group, the New Empire Knights, was “setting up a reward” for the officer, who shot Brown six times after an encounter on Aug. 9.

rawstory.com

If you can’t trust the integrity of the Klan, what’s this country coming to?

282 psddluva4evah  Aug 19, 2014 4:47:38pm

re: #275 klys

Ah…then eye roll, Jay Nixon is a complete disaster. How the hell did he even get elected?

283 Charles Johnson  Aug 19, 2014 4:48:19pm
284 De Kolta Chair  Aug 19, 2014 4:49:05pm

re: #278 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

The light background makes his halo almost impossible to see.

285 psddluva4evah  Aug 19, 2014 4:52:35pm

re: #283 Charles Johnson

The LIVE video is even funnier. You can literally see the evolution of his disbelief, from a “wait, what” to major side eye to almost eye roll.

vine.co

286 Skip Intro  Aug 19, 2014 4:52:38pm

How about a break?

Here’s Barely Legal Pawn, starring Bryan Cranston, Arron Paul, and Julia Louis-Dreyfus

Youtube Video

287 jaunte  Aug 19, 2014 4:53:56pm

re: #278 Charles Johnson

It’s that guy from the Tyrell Corporation.

288 Pie-onist Overlord  Aug 19, 2014 4:54:55pm

How long did you think it would take for the wingnuts to find a way to bring BENGHAZI!!!!! back into the twitstream

289 CuriousLurker  Aug 19, 2014 4:55:10pm

Mental health break: Dogs, every bit as weird as cats.

290 jaunte  Aug 19, 2014 4:58:14pm

re: #289 CuriousLurker

All quiet on the western front.

291 Charles Johnson  Aug 19, 2014 4:58:41pm

Check this out! Jim Hoft apparently erased “UNIV OF IOWA” from the image he posted.

On the left is the original, on the right is Hoft’s:

292 Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 19, 2014 4:59:05pm

hahahahaa…Wendy deleted her earlier tweet and replaced it with this.

293 wrenchwench  Aug 19, 2014 4:59:09pm

I just sold a carbon fiber mountain bike. WOOT!

Soon as his card clears, I can order it.

294 TedStriker  Aug 19, 2014 4:59:52pm

re: #293 wrenchwench

I just sold a carbon fiber mountain bike. WOOT!

Soon as his card clears, I can order it.

Lemme guess….mondo moolah, right?

295 jaunte  Aug 19, 2014 5:00:18pm

re: #292 Backwoods_Sleuth

Waiting for a photo of the officer that shows any bruising.

296 wrenchwench  Aug 19, 2014 5:01:10pm

re: #294 TedStriker

Lemme guess….mondo moolah, right?

Only $2200. The mfg gave me a deal, and I passed along the savings.

The price of carbon has dropped.

297 Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 19, 2014 5:02:16pm

Wendy has a serious grumpy at me.

298 Charles Johnson  Aug 19, 2014 5:02:27pm
299 wrenchwench  Aug 19, 2014 5:03:05pm

re: #297 Backwoods_Sleuth

Wendy has a serious grumpy at me.

Good work.

300 Charles Johnson  Aug 19, 2014 5:03:21pm

That asshole actually WANTED people to think it was an X-ray of Wilson.

301 Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 19, 2014 5:03:55pm

re: #299 wrenchwench

Good work.

Jeez…she is STILL hurling the “you are stupid” at me.

302 jaunte  Aug 19, 2014 5:06:25pm

Confirmation bias confirmed.

303 Pie-onist Overlord  Aug 19, 2014 5:06:46pm

HURR HURR LETS SETTLE THIS LIKE TEXANS LIBTARDS!!!! WITH ARE SIX GUNS!!!!!!

304 jaunte  Aug 19, 2014 5:07:13pm

Results for orbital fracture ferguson
twitter.com

305 Decatur Deb  Aug 19, 2014 5:07:47pm

re: #302 jaunte

[Embedded image]

Confirmation bias confirmed.

“Sources claim”—Loesch.

306 Decatur Deb  Aug 19, 2014 5:08:54pm

re: #303 Pie-onist Overlord

HURR HURR LETS SETTLE THIS LIKE TEXANS LIBTARDS!!!! WITH ARE SIX GUNS!!!!!!

[Embedded content]

Please, God, let Perry make it through the TPGOP debates in ‘16.

307 TedStriker  Aug 19, 2014 5:10:16pm

re: #300 Charles Johnson

That asshole actually WANTED people to think it was an X-ray of Wilson.

Jim Hoft being dishonest? Whowuddathunkit?

He’s too busy doing this to all of the manufactured RWNJ Ferguson outrage (whether manufactured by him or others like him):

As he jizzes in his pants…

308 BeachDem  Aug 19, 2014 5:12:34pm

re: #301 Backwoods_Sleuth

And first she sticks her tongue out at you and then calls you a child.

309 Decatur Deb  Aug 19, 2014 5:13:09pm

re: #304 jaunte

Results for orbital fracture ferguson
twitter.com

Those are the people you want to sell gold and heirloom seeds.

310 BeachDem  Aug 19, 2014 5:13:49pm

re: #302 jaunte

It’s truly mind-boggling.

311 Varek Raith  Aug 19, 2014 5:14:56pm

re: #309 Decatur Deb

Those are the people you want to sell gold and heirloom seeds.

Gold plated seeds that grow gold!

312 lawhawk  Aug 19, 2014 5:16:53pm

re: #291 Charles Johnson

OFFS. That’s worse than clueless. It’s malicious and fraudulent.

It’s one thing to pass it off as being an example of an orbital blowout fracture. But he’s actually trying to pass it off as the x-ray of Officer Wilson? There can be no other explanation when you try to hide the origins of the ct-scan, which clearly identifies itself as from the University of Iowa, and that the source is Figure 2 (which would be identical in font and shape to the AAPOS page.

But let’s also go to the AAPOS page for symptoms of this kind of fracture:

What are the symptoms of an orbital blowout fracture?
The most common symptoms are bruising, tenderness and swelling around the eye; redness of the eye; double vision, ordiplopia (seeing two images at the same time); numbness of the cheek, nose or teeth; nose bleeds (epistaxis) [See figure 1].

Symptoms that typically indicate a more serious injury are pain on eye movement, double vision, air under the skin around the eye, and numbness of the cheek/mouth/nose on the side of the injury. Severe trauma may cause facial bone fractures, injury to the eye itself, and injuries to the skull/brain.

There’s no evidence of nose bleed or bruising from the video, but that’s not dispositive. If there was issues with double vision or numbness, it’s not something you can tell from the video. But it would definitely affect Wilson’s aim and his aim was quite good with multiple hits to the head and torso. That would tend to undermine that he had double vision or vision issues.

So, what we have is a bunch of babbling BS from Hoft, and a whole lot of right wingers hoping that it’s true - and if not, why not simply poison the well by getting this rumor out there before any actual evidence of Wilson’s condition is made available.

313 BeachDem  Aug 19, 2014 5:17:03pm

re: #304 jaunte

For Pie-Onist Overlord, because I know this is one of her favorite:

314 Pie-onist Overlord  Aug 19, 2014 5:17:30pm

DISCLAIMER: I do not know how reliable “mediacircus” is but it looks like Chucky C haz some butthurt

315 Pie-onist Overlord  Aug 19, 2014 5:18:19pm

re: #313 BeachDem

For Pie-Onist Overlord, because I know this is one of her favorite:

[Embedded content]

Isn’t she sweet?

316 WhatEVs  Aug 19, 2014 5:18:41pm

Good article by a former prosecutor.

m.dailykos.com

317 Charles Johnson  Aug 19, 2014 5:18:55pm

re: #312 lawhawk

Wilson would have been in a great deal of pain by the time that video was taken, but he shows absolutely no sign of discomfort. And no ambulance was called for him.

318 Decatur Deb  Aug 19, 2014 5:19:11pm

re: #311 Varek Raith

Gold plated seeds that grow gold!

And beanstalks. Big beanstocks.

319 BeachDem  Aug 19, 2014 5:20:42pm

re: #314 Pie-onist Overlord

[Embedded content]

But, but ChuckyC gave us a “pro-tip” just the other night that a FOIA would produce what he was verifying making up.

320 Decatur Deb  Aug 19, 2014 5:20:47pm

re: #317 Charles Johnson

Wilson would have been in a great deal of pain by the time that video was taken, but he shows absolutely no sign of discomfort. And no ambulance was called for him.

That kind of injury will leave a big paper trail, but by the time it becomes obvious that it’s overdue, the circus will be in another town.

321 Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 19, 2014 5:21:09pm

Looks like Wendy has taken break from flinging insults at me.
Or she just passed out from an overload of grumpy.

322 The Mountain That Blogs  Aug 19, 2014 5:21:35pm

Did Wilson even go to the hospital and get a CT?

323 Gus  Aug 19, 2014 5:21:45pm

re: #317 Charles Johnson

Wilson would have been in a great deal of pain by the time that video was taken, but he shows absolutely no sign of discomfort. And no ambulance was called for him.

Which would have helped Wilson’s case.

324 WhatEVs  Aug 19, 2014 5:22:42pm

re: #314 Pie-onist Overlord

So the Award Winning Journalist confirmed something he has no proof of and now is trying to come up with something. Got it.

325 Pie-onist Overlord  Aug 19, 2014 5:22:47pm

DERP

326 BeachDem  Aug 19, 2014 5:22:48pm

re: #315 Pie-onist Overlord

Isn’t she sweet?

Well, butter certainly wouldn’t just melt in her mouth, it would explode in terror.

327 b.d.  Aug 19, 2014 5:23:07pm

re: #314 Pie-onist Overlord

DISCLAIMER: I do not know how reliaboe “mediacircus” is but it looks like Chucky C haz some butthurt

[Embedded content]

They can also deny the request if there is no file there at all, not exactly a smoking gun. I thought that Chuckles had that whole scoop ready to publish?

328 Fairly Sure I'm Still Obdicut  Aug 19, 2014 5:23:40pm

re: #317 Charles Johnson

I think technically even a hairline fracture of any of the bones around the eye would be a ‘blowout fracture’: it’s a description of the way the physical forces involved cause the fracture, and doesn’t indicate any sort of severity.

329 Pie-onist Overlord  Aug 19, 2014 5:24:15pm

re: #319 BeachDem

But, but ChuckyC gave us a “pro-tip” just the other night that a FOIA would produce what he was verifying making up.

FOIA is not the magic bean that people think it is. FOIA requests if approved can take weeks or months.

330 CuriousLurker  Aug 19, 2014 5:24:19pm

This wingnut site is referencing Dim Jim’s “illustration” of an orbital blowout fracture, and also including an x-ray of their own. It appears to have been pilfered from this site and the copyright removed. I guess someone should notify them about the copyright infringement… //

331 BeachDem  Aug 19, 2014 5:26:08pm

re: #314 Pie-onist Overlord

Jeez—does Chucky C ever pay for anything himself?

332 b.d.  Aug 19, 2014 5:27:34pm

Praying that your guy has a broken eyeball is not a sign of holding the high ground.

333 makeitstop  Aug 19, 2014 5:27:45pm

re: #331 BeachDem

Jeez—does Chucky C ever pay for anything himself?

I need a good Missouri lawyer to help me draft a response to the juvenile court denying my FOIA request for #MichaelBrown record.

And here I was, wondering who could have filed that FOIA request…

334 Jenner7  Aug 19, 2014 5:27:59pm

re: #331 BeachDem

For someone who didn’t really care about this case, he sure cares.

335 b.d.  Aug 19, 2014 5:29:02pm

re: #331 BeachDem

Jeez—does Chucky C ever pay for anything himself?

[Embedded content]

Soliciting legal advice on teh Twitter, what could possibly go wrong?

336 Pie-onist Overlord  Aug 19, 2014 5:29:06pm

re: #331 BeachDem

Jeez—does Chucky C ever pay for anything himself?

[Embedded content]

ChuckyC has blocked me. I haz a sad. :(

337 Mike Lamb  Aug 19, 2014 5:29:15pm

re: #270 Islamo-Masonic Conspirator

Yes, every trial is about witnesses—fact or expert—to lay foundation for admissibility; set the scene; identify people, etc. Your statement that you need witnesses to tie evidence together is a truism that doesn’t add anything to the discussion. Your argument that physical evidence isn’t extremely helpful to this case is just not realistic.

338 Kragar  Aug 19, 2014 5:29:24pm

re: #325 Pie-onist Overlord

DERP

[Embedded content]

339 makeitstop  Aug 19, 2014 5:29:27pm

re: #334 Jenner7

For someone who didn’t really care about this case, he sure cares.

I think he shot his mouth off about having something out of Brown’s juvie record, while he was waiting for the FOIA request to go through - until it didn’t.

If I was on Twitter I’d be mocking his ass around the block right now.

340 goddamnedfrank  Aug 19, 2014 5:29:37pm

re: #331 BeachDem

Jeez—does Chucky C ever pay for anything himself?

[Embedded content]

He doesn’t have standing to make that kind of request. Even in death juvenile records don’t become public without seriously extenuating circumstances. Assuming they even exist Darren Wilson’s defense, if he’s ever charged, might be able to get those records, but CCJ is just off on a toot.

341 b.d.  Aug 19, 2014 5:30:33pm

re: #331 BeachDem

Jeez—does Chucky C ever pay for anything himself?

[Embedded content]

I need a GOOD free Twitter lawyer, not just one of those average ones

//

342 Aunty Entity Dragon  Aug 19, 2014 5:31:49pm

re: #37 Ace-o-aces

MMA SUPERPUNCH!!!!!!!!

Yes, apparently Mike Brown had superpowers. Good thing the officer shot him before he destroyed the city!

Ah, yes, the super power evil black man who must be shot repeatedly.

That one has been a favorite here in the South.

343 Floral Giraffe  Aug 19, 2014 5:31:56pm

re: #267 b.d.

And large puppets?

Clowns, maybe???

344 Skip Intro  Aug 19, 2014 5:33:06pm

re: #341 b.d.

I need a GOOD free Twitter lawyer, not just one of those average ones

//

All good lawyers scan Twitter every day looking for cases to work on for free.

345 Floral Giraffe  Aug 19, 2014 5:33:35pm

re: #293 wrenchwench

I just sold a carbon fiber mountain bike. WOOT!

Soon as his card clears, I can order it.

Congratulations!

346 jaunte  Aug 19, 2014 5:35:49pm

re: #338 Kragar

Perry’s selective outrage:

During Perry’s time in office, three District Attorneys have been found guilty of drunk driving. Of those, the only one he threatened if they didn’t resign was Rosemary Lehmberg, the only Democrat and the one who just happened to be investigating him.
burntorangereport.com

347 BeachDem  Aug 19, 2014 5:36:29pm

Paragraph 5 of the denial—I don’t think they could have been any clearer in saying HELL NO

(I deleted it because it had contact info in it—if you really want to see it, it’s on ChuckyC’s twitter.

348 alpuz  Aug 19, 2014 5:36:29pm

re: #293 wrenchwench

No bamboo? WTH? Roadie slumming?

349 Skip Intro  Aug 19, 2014 5:36:40pm

re: #340 goddamnedfrank

He doesn’t have standing to make that kind of request. Even in death juvenile records don’t become public without seriously extenuating circumstances.

It’s all about poisoning the well by making accusations, then blaming the system for being unable to back them up.

It’s just like the lawyers trick of asking a question they know is inadmissible, knowing that even after the judge tells the jury to disregard it, they won’t.

The entire RW smear machine has come together to work on this case.

350 Danny  Aug 19, 2014 5:36:47pm

re: #322 The Mountain That Blogs

Did Wilson even go to the hospital and get a CT?

I recall Chief Jackson saying Wilson was treated for swelling of the side of his face at the hospital but no other details.

351 Kragar  Aug 19, 2014 5:37:36pm
352 Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 19, 2014 5:37:36pm
353 BeachDem  Aug 19, 2014 5:38:23pm

re: #339 makeitstop

I think he shot his mouth off about having something out of Brown’s juvie record, while he was waiting for the FOIA request to go through - until it didn’t.

If I was on Twitter I’d be mocking his ass around the block right now.

From what I’ve seen, many are.

354 b.d.  Aug 19, 2014 5:38:34pm

re: #347 BeachDem

Paragraph 5 of the denial—I don’t think they could have been any clearer in saying HELL NO

[Embedded content]

That POS left that lady’s email address intact when he put this up on the web?

355 Skip Intro  Aug 19, 2014 5:38:56pm

re: #352 Backwoods_Sleuth

I shudder to think what the response to that tweet is going to be.

356 alpuz  Aug 19, 2014 5:40:28pm

re: #351 Kragar

Youtube Video

357 Kragar  Aug 19, 2014 5:41:37pm

re: #356 alpuz

[Embedded content]

Video

Oh Tobias, you blow hard

358 Kid A  Aug 19, 2014 5:41:46pm
359 TedStriker  Aug 19, 2014 5:42:12pm

re: #354 b.d.

That POS left that lady’s email address intact when he put this up on the web?

Of course he did…the better for the RWNJs to descend upon and harass her for doing her job.

360 lawhawk  Aug 19, 2014 5:42:15pm

re: #351 Kragar

That’s too good for him. Lionel Hutz is a more appropriate legal counsel.

361 Decatur Deb  Aug 19, 2014 5:42:26pm

re: #351 Kragar

[Embedded content]

My cousin Vinnie has experience with southern yoot justice.

362 BeachDem  Aug 19, 2014 5:42:44pm

re: #329 Pie-onist Overlord

FOIA is not the magic bean that people think it is. FOIA requests if approved can take weeks or months.

But it only took one day to tell ChuckyC to go pound sand.

363 Skip Intro  Aug 19, 2014 5:43:04pm

re: #351 Kragar

This one’s available too, and she works for free.

And no, she isn’t CA A.G., but lying is part of her suite of ethics. She’d be perfect for Chuckles.

364 Aunty Entity Dragon  Aug 19, 2014 5:43:17pm

re: #145 EPR-radar

OK, I have a basic question here —— what is this nonsense about the potential subject of a grand jury indictment testifying to the grand jury?

The usual way a grand jury works is that the prosecutor presents a case and the grand jury decides if it can go to trial (i.e., whether or not there is probable cause to try the accused). Since only one side of the story is told by the prosecutor, it is notoriously easy to get grand jury indictments. E.g., the old joke about how a competent prosecutor could get a grand jury to indict a ham sandwich.

If Officer Wilson gets to plead his case for innocence to the grand jury, that would be another telling sign that the fix is in.

10 to 1 none of the actual witnessess get a summons to testify.

365 Pie-onist Overlord  Aug 19, 2014 5:43:34pm

re: #336 Pie-onist Overlord

ChuckyC has blocked me. I haz a sad. :(

I tweeted this at him yesterday:

366 Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 19, 2014 5:43:47pm

re: #358 Kid A

[Embedded content]

don’t hold back, tell him how you really feel!

367 Stanley Sea  Aug 19, 2014 5:45:04pm

I think we are giving undue prominence to people like Chuck C. Johnson & Dim Jim.

Their poisonous libel would not get as much coverage if we and LGF ignored it.

Seriously.

368 TedStriker  Aug 19, 2014 5:45:12pm

re: #339 makeitstop

I think he shot his mouth off about having something out of Brown’s juvie record, while he was waiting for the FOIA request to go through - until it didn’t.

If I was on Twitter I’d be mocking his ass around the block right now.

re: #353 BeachDem

From what I’ve seen, many are.

Charles C. Johnson’s an “award-winning journalist” in the same way that Wile E. Coyote is a “supergenius”.

369 Stanley Sea  Aug 19, 2014 5:45:25pm

Annnnnd. We go upstairs.

370 BeachDem  Aug 19, 2014 5:45:30pm

re: #354 b.d.

That POS left that lady’s email address intact when he put this up on the web?

Oh—didn’t notice that—should I delete it?

371 Pie-onist Overlord  Aug 19, 2014 5:45:33pm

re: #362 BeachDem

But it only took one day to tell ChuckyC to go pound sand.

I guess in his case it was a magic bean, just not the magic he wanted.

372 dell*nix  Aug 19, 2014 5:46:13pm

re: #200 Pie-onist Overlord

His light balance is way off. Too much light on the right side of his face and not enough on the left side.

373 Stanley Sea  Aug 19, 2014 5:46:43pm

Rise above the fray is all I’m-a-saying.

374 WhatEVs  Aug 19, 2014 5:47:04pm

re: #347 BeachDem

Here’s response from the St. Louis County Circuit clerk denying my FOIA. I plan on responding. THoughts? #Ferguson

I’d scream and threaten. Give it a go, Chaz.

375 alpuz  Aug 19, 2014 5:47:30pm

re: #357 Kragar

Comic relief?

Youtube Video

376 WhatEVs  Aug 19, 2014 5:49:00pm

re: #354 b.d.

That POS left that lady’s email address intact when he put this up on the web?

That should help. The masses of right wing outrage filling her inbox.

377 BeachDem  Aug 19, 2014 5:50:15pm

re: #376 Joanne

That should help. The masses of right wing outrage filling her inbox.

I deleted it from my post. I don’t think there are even that many right wingers who would waste their time being outraged on ChuckyC’s behalf. He’s more of a chew toy.

378 TedStriker  Aug 19, 2014 5:53:06pm

re: #367 Stanley Sea

I think we are giving undue prominence to people like Chuck C. Johnson & Dim Jim.

Their poisonous libel would not get as much coverage if we and LGF ignored it.

Seriously.

The problem is not us spotlighting their bullshit and calling them out for what they really are (which is partisan hacks), but rather with partisan RW outlets (and nominally non-partisan, but lazy, media outlets as well) picking up and running with the bullshit that they’re spewing.

Someone has to tell the truth; we need more people to do it too.

379 Stanley Sea  Aug 19, 2014 5:56:04pm

re: #378 TedStriker

The problem is not us spotlighting their bullshit and calling them out for what they really are (which is partisan hacks), but rather with partisan RW outlets (and nominally non-partisan, but lazy, media outlets as well) picking up and running with the bullshit that they’re spewing.

Someone has to tell the truth; we need more people to do it too.

Ya, but the result is the slander gets spread far and wide. No one cares about the assholes, they end up caring what the assholes say.

380 ausador  Aug 19, 2014 6:24:43pm

Sorry, I know I shouldn’t feed the troll, but he did ask for thoughts about his response…

381 BeenHereAwhile  Aug 19, 2014 8:01:12pm

re: #155 klys

There is no judge present and frequently there are no lawyers except for the prosecutor. The prosecutor will explain the law to the jury and work with them to gather evidence and hear testimony. Under normal courtroom rules of evidence, exhibits and other testimony must adhere to strict rules before admission. However, a grand jury had broad power to see and hear almost anything they would like

Witnesses appearing before a grand jury may have counsel present, *but* not inside the grand jury room.

If a witness wishes to confer with his counsel, the witness must step outside the grand jury room, confer with counsel who is waiting outside, and then return to testify, without counsel accompanying them back inside.

Grand jurors are also allowed to question the witness directly.

Been there, done that, got the t-shirt.


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