Law Enforcement Officials Admit Officer Wilson Fired at Michael Brown as He Ran Away

A big admission, and a key piece of the puzzle
US News • Views: 58,047

A New York Times report on the huge differences between the accounts of eyewitnesses to the shooting of Michael Brown and accounts from Ferguson police doesn’t have much new information (if you’ve been following LGF, anyway), but it does show once again how consistent all the eyewitness accounts have been.

However, one new detail is very striking — because it’s the first time I’ve seen police admit that officer Darren Wilson actually fired his weapon at Michael Brown as he was running away.

Here’s the key section:

However, law enforcement officials say witnesses and forensic analysis have shown that Officer Wilson did sustain an injury during the struggle in the car.

As Officer Wilson got out of his car, the men were running away. The officer fired his weapon but did not hit anyone, according to law enforcement officials.

The first section is just a repeat of what Ferguson PD has been saying since the beginning, that Wilson and Brown struggled inside the car. Notably, none of the eyewitnesses confirm this story.

However, the second paragraph quoted above makes it very clear that officer Wilson was firing his weapon at Michael Brown as he ran away — in other words, even though law enforcement officials say he didn’t hit Brown or Johnson, he was indeed shooting at Brown’s back.

That’s a confirmation of one of the crucial bits of eyewitness information, and an explanation for the initial reports that Brown was “shot in the back” — because Wilson did try to shoot him in the back. And that’s not supposition any more; it’s the direct word from law enforcement.

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510 comments
1 Bulworth  Aug 20, 2014 1:13:55pm

hurr hurr Libtard New York Times!!111

2 Kilroy01  Aug 20, 2014 1:15:56pm

Why am I expecting to hear “Warning shots” and then “he charged like a bull”.

3 Ace-o-aces  Aug 20, 2014 1:16:04pm

Well come on, how could Wilson have possibly known they were running away? After all he was suffering from an orbital fracture and had been beaten nearly unconscious just moments before! He had to act before Brown escaped to commit another misdemeanor!

4 lawhawk  Aug 20, 2014 1:16:24pm

The Rashomon of Michael Brown (this would be a great page/posting title). The true story is slowly coming into focus, and the more it does, the more the Hoftian/Wilson version is exposed as utter BS.

Wilson fired his firearm with the intent to hit Brown as he was running away. He was intent to hit him in the back.

Then, Brown turned around, and Wilson kept firing, including the fatal shot.

5 Bulworth  Aug 20, 2014 1:19:56pm

re:
#4

I don’t suppose the bullets fired that missed have been found? Has it been determined how many shots were fired (and not just how many entered Brown’s body)?

6 Charles Johnson  Aug 20, 2014 1:20:24pm

People who tweet about articles they obviously haven’t read should be fined.

7 Skip Intro  Aug 20, 2014 1:20:42pm

I have all but given up trying to follow this story because of all the false information, intentional or not, that’s been spewed all over the net, so forgive me if these questions have already been answered.

1) Where was Wilson sitting in the car, driver or passenger seat?
2) What side of the car did Brown approach?
3) Did Brown enter the vehicle?
4) What was the cause of the weapon firing inside the vehicle?

I apologize if these are all questions I should know the answer to, but the information overload here is way beyond my ability to keep up with.

8 lawhawk  Aug 20, 2014 1:22:23pm
9 Timothy Watson  Aug 20, 2014 1:23:49pm

re: #5 Bulworth

re:
#4

I don’t suppose the bullets fired that missed have been found? Has it been determined how many shots were fired (and not just how many entered Brown’s body)?

Presumably the magazine of his weapon was fully loaded plus one in the chamber, so the police should be able to count the remaining ammunition along with the brass on the ground.

10 jaunte  Aug 20, 2014 1:25:15pm
The fatal confrontation began on Aug. 9 shortly after the police received reports that two men had robbed a convenience store in Ferguson. Officer Wilson, who was not responding to the robbery, had stopped to speak with Mr. Brown and a friend, Dorian Johnson. The Ferguson police chief, Thomas Jackson, said that it was around the time that Officer Wilson started talking to the two that he realized they fit the description of the suspects in the convenience store robbery.
nytimes.com

But Darren Wilson, the officer who stopped Brown, wasn’t even aware that Brown was a suspect in the robbery, Ferguson Police Chief Thomas Jackson said Friday afternoon. The officer initially stopped Brown and his friend, Dorian Johnson, because the pair was walking in the middle of a residential street, Jackson said, an admission that provoked outrage from Brown’s family and attorneys.
msnbc.com

Eric Davis, a cousin of Brown’s, called the police department’s changing story “smoke and mirrors.”

11 Shvaughn  Aug 20, 2014 1:25:33pm

re: #8 lawhawk

[Embedded content]

No longer in Ferguson? He should no longer have a job.

12 Bulworth  Aug 20, 2014 1:25:38pm

re:
#9

Thanks, yeah I would expect them to figure this out easily enough, although not sure I’ve read the details anywhere yet. And as Skip said, all the mush floating around about the case has succeeded in making things seem unclear.

13 Charles Johnson  Aug 20, 2014 1:26:23pm

re: #7 Skip Intro

I have all but given up trying to follow this story because of all the false information, intentional or not, that’s been spewed all over the net, so forgive me if these questions have already been answered.

1) Where was Wilson sitting in the car, driver or passenger seat?
2) What side of the car did Brown approach?
3) Did Brown enter the vehicle?
4) What was the cause of the weapon firing inside the vehicle?

I apologize if these are all questions I should know the answer to, but the information overload here is way beyond my ability to keep up with.

1. The driver’s seat.
2. The driver’s side.
3. This is in dispute. Police say he did, most witnesses say he didn’t.
4. Not clear. Police say it went off during a struggle between Brown and Wilson.

14 lostlakehiker  Aug 20, 2014 1:26:52pm

The passage quoted says only that Wilson fired his weapon. It does not say, explicitly, that he fired it at anyone.

We do not, not at this point, going by the wording of the article, have it from the authorities that Wilson said he shot at them. It may be that he will say it was a warning shot. It may even be that it really was a warning shot.

It’s an inference, a good one with some support, rather than an ironclad settled fact, that that first shot was an aimed shot. The fact that it missed is, after all, consistent with the alternative, that it was a warning shot.

We’ll know more later.

15 Charles Johnson  Aug 20, 2014 1:27:44pm

re: #14 lostlakehiker

Police don’t fire “warning shots” in residential areas, except in the movies.

16 Bubblehead II  Aug 20, 2014 1:27:49pm

re: #8 lawhawk

[Embedded content]

17 wrenchwench  Aug 20, 2014 1:27:56pm

re: #8 lawhawk

[Embedded content]

Did you see the letter?

I love this part:

‘When asked for his identity, the officer invites citizens to fuck themselves.’

18 Bulworth  Aug 20, 2014 1:28:42pm

re:
#17

So this cop was a Highway Patrol? Not a local Ferguson cop?

19 ausador  Aug 20, 2014 1:29:19pm

re: #14 lostlakehiker

The “first shot” was the one fired inside the patrol SUV…so definitely not a warning shot.

20 klys  Aug 20, 2014 1:29:20pm

re: #7 Skip Intro

I have all but given up trying to follow this story because of all the false information, intentional or not, that’s been spewed all over the net, so forgive me if these questions have already been answered.

1) Where was Wilson sitting in the car, driver or passenger seat?
2) What side of the car did Brown approach?
3) Did Brown enter the vehicle?
4) What was the cause of the weapon firing inside the vehicle?

I apologize if these are all questions I should know the answer to, but the information overload here is way beyond my ability to keep up with.

I’ll give it a stab, based on what I have gleaned:

1) Wilson was the only officer, so logic says he was in the driver’s seat.
2) This is less clear, but it appears it may have been the driver’s side.
3) Unclear. Dorian Johnson’s account says the officer reached through the window and grabbed Brown’s throat and the struggle was Brown trying to get away. The officer’s account is that Brown punched him through the window after knocking the officer’s door shut. At least one additional witness stated there was some sort of altercation at the car before Brown ran away.
4) Unknown.

21 Charles Johnson  Aug 20, 2014 1:29:25pm

In fact, I just Googled this, and firing a warning shot is a crime. It doesn’t happen. Wilson fired his weapon at Brown and Johnson.

22 Shvaughn  Aug 20, 2014 1:29:52pm

Are “warning shots” even a thing? Is that an acceptable reason to discharge a firearm according to ferguson PD procedures?

23 Kragar  Aug 20, 2014 1:29:56pm

re: #15 Charles Johnson

Police don’t fire “warning shots” in residential areas, except in the movies.

I took a firearms safety class run back in college when I was studying criminal justice. One thing they were emphatic about was you NEVER fire warning shots.

24 Charles Johnson  Aug 20, 2014 1:30:33pm

re: #23 Kragar

I took a firearms safety class run back in college when I was studying criminal justice. One thing they were emphatic about was you NEVER fire warning shots.

Exactly right.

25 Timothy Watson  Aug 20, 2014 1:30:51pm

re: #21 Charles Johnson

In fact, I just Googled this, and firing a warning shot is a crime. It doesn’t happen. IWilson fired his weapon at Brown and Johnson.

Yeah, cops don’t fire warning shots and they don’t shot people in the hands, etc. They’re trained to shot to stop a threat to themselves or others.

26 gwangung  Aug 20, 2014 1:30:58pm

re: #23 Kragar

I took a firearms safety class run back in college when I was studying criminal justice. One thing they were emphatic about was you NEVER fire warning shots.

Which, of course, doesn’t mean this yahoo didn’t do that.

27 jaunte  Aug 20, 2014 1:31:02pm

The street is what police would call a “high ricochet environment.”

28 lawhawk  Aug 20, 2014 1:31:14pm

re: #14 lostlakehiker

Warning shots? Really? Where in the Ferguson PD manual (or any law enforcement manual for that matter) does it state that it is acceptable for an officer to fire a warning shot? Many departments specifically prohibit the use of a warning shot because the bullet has to go somewhere and it could result in bystander injuries or fatalities.

29 Charles Johnson  Aug 20, 2014 1:31:54pm

Jim Treacher is retweeting everything I post on Twitter. Trying to get wingnuts to swarm me, obviously.

30 Pie-onist Overlord  Aug 20, 2014 1:32:46pm

Wait, what?

31 Gus  Aug 20, 2014 1:32:57pm

The identity and jurisdiction of the officer are not immediately clear from the video. The ACLU said it believed it was “a municipal police officer.”

talkingpointsmemo.com

32 wrenchwench  Aug 20, 2014 1:33:04pm

re: #29 Charles Johnson

Jim Treacher is retweeting everything I post on Twitter. Trying to get wingnuts to swarm me, obviously.

Ain’t no swarm if the bees are pre-blocked.

33 b.d.  Aug 20, 2014 1:33:11pm

he was shooting a shot over his bow

34 Targetpractice  Aug 20, 2014 1:34:40pm

I’m getting the feeling that the narrative is now slowly moving from “Brown was a violent attacker” to “It was an honest mistake.” As in Wilson fired because he “believed” he was in danger, and that Brown was responsible for his own death because he acted in some manner (note in the NYT article it says “moved towards” and not “charged”) that Wilson saw as “threatening.”

35 Schadenboner  Aug 20, 2014 1:34:42pm

re: #33 b.d.

he was shooting a shot over his bow

When does the archery season for Ni*CLANG*s start in Missouri, anyways?

36 lostlakehiker  Aug 20, 2014 1:35:02pm

re: #15 Charles Johnson

Police don’t fire “warning shots” in residential areas, except in the movies.

Like I said, it’s a good inference. Police shouldn’t fire in residential areas unless it’s absolutely necessary, because bullets don’t just disappear if they miss. They have to go somewhere. But the quote itself doesn’t have the word “at” in it. If I were the reporter, I would have tried to nail that down. NYT reporters are not rookies. That it’s not in the article suggests to me that the reporter did not get an answer to that question.

37 Kragar  Aug 20, 2014 1:35:28pm

We had a safety video showing us why you don’t fire warning shots. A cop was chasing a suspect, shouted freeze and fired 2 shots in the air. The narrator then said “lets see where those shots went”. They cut to an old lady putting letters into a mail box when a round hit the box, then they showed a kid working on his bike in the driveway who then got hit in the back.

You don’t fire a shot unless you’re pointing at something you intend to kill.

38 b.d.  Aug 20, 2014 1:35:33pm

re: #35 Schadenboner

When does the archery season for Ni*CLANG*s start in Missouri, anyways?

I yelled “pull” before I shot at those guys

39 Skip Intro  Aug 20, 2014 1:35:48pm

Thanks for the quick response.

So possibly Brown started to open the drivers side door, Wilson unholstered his weapon, and somehow a shot was fired.

Brown may or may not have assaulted Wilson, running away after the gun shot.

Is this a reasonable interpretation of the events so far?

40 ausador  Aug 20, 2014 1:36:17pm

re: #28 lawhawk

Warning shots? Really? Where in the Ferguson PD manual (or any law enforcement manual for that matter) does it state that it is acceptable for an officer to fire a warning shot? Many departments specifically prohibit the use of a warning shot because the bullet has to go somewhere and it could result in bystander injuries or fatalities.

Or consider that every fourth of July at least one citizen somewhere in America is struck by a falling bullet fired “straight up” into the air by some idiot.

(In Minecraft you can hit yourself with your own arrows doing that, lol)

41 Danny  Aug 20, 2014 1:36:49pm

re: #21 Charles Johnson

It appears to be a department by department policy.

Many police departments have had a policy against warning shots for years. Such a policy is due to the concern that a warning shot may be misplaced and result in unintended injury or death to a suspect or bystander. On the other hand, there is evidence that a safely placed warning shot can shock a suspect into compliant behavior that precludes shooting the suspect. Thus, warning shots may prevent injury or death rather than cause it. In reviewing dozens of cases in which officers or civilians fired a warning shot, the authors found the shots were effective in the vast majority of cases, and no further shots were fired. Case after case showed that criminals ceased to flee and surrendered, even though they had committed serious crimes. In the cases where warning shots were fired, the arrests remained valid; and the courts were not concerned about the use of warning shots. Research shows that warning shots have resulted in little legal litigation. If an officer’s option is to fire a safely placed warning shot or shoot to kill or incapacitate a suspect, the option of the warning shot is less likely to lead to a civil action against the department. Perhaps it is time to look at the possible use of warning shots in certain cases in which it would be an alternative to injury or death.

Link

42 Targetpractice  Aug 20, 2014 1:37:17pm

re: #36 lostlakehiker

Like I said, it’s a good inference. Police shouldn’t fire in residential areas unless it’s absolutely necessary, because bullets don’t just disappear if they miss. They have to go somewhere. But the quote itself doesn’t have the word “at” in it. If I were the reporter, I would have tried to nail that down. NYT reporters are not rookies. That it’s not in the article suggests to me that the reporter did not get an answer to that question.

The idea that Wilson was firing “warning shots” makes him look even more reckless.

43 lostlakehiker  Aug 20, 2014 1:37:20pm

re: #28 lawhawk

Warning shots? Really? Where in the Ferguson PD manual (or any law enforcement manual for that matter) does it state that it is acceptable for an officer to fire a warning shot? Many departments specifically prohibit the use of a warning shot because the bullet has to go somewhere and it could result in bystander injuries or fatalities.

Well yes. Of course. As I independently noted just now. There isn’t a whole lot of doubt but that it was an aimed shot. But it’s possible that Wilson went off the page, and it’s much more possible that this was his story and that law enforcement can’t prove that it was aimed so they didn’t say so.

44 Bulworth  Aug 20, 2014 1:37:34pm

re:
#39

Did Wilson have a partner in the car? Can’t recall seeing that mentioned anywhere.

45 Charles Johnson  Aug 20, 2014 1:37:57pm

re: #39 Skip Intro

Thanks for the quick response.

So possibly Brown started to open the drivers side door, Wilson unholstered his weapon, and somehow a shot was fired.

Brown may or may not have assaulted Wilson, running away after the gun shot.

Is this a reasonable interpretation of the events so far?

Several witnesses say Wilson tried to throw the door open but it was blocked at first by Brown’s body. Shortly after that the first shot was fired.

46 BlueSpotinAL  Aug 20, 2014 1:38:11pm

re: #17 wrenchwench

Did you see the letter?

[Embedded content]

I love this part:

‘When asked for his identity, the officer invites citizens to fuck themselves.’

Don’t forget that article that says you should do what the police say, from an ex-policeman. Why couldn’t these people just fuck themselves without raising a fuss?

47 sagehen  Aug 20, 2014 1:38:17pm

re: #30 Pie-onist Overlord

Wait, what?

[Embedded content]

Squash the vegetable. squash the sorta-tennisish-game, or squash the sitting on something?

48 Rightwingconspirator  Aug 20, 2014 1:38:42pm

Oh boy. Question becomes, legally speaking here not morally….
Does the use of deadly force policy allow a policeman to shoot a fleeing felon absent an immediate threat to public safety? How long does that “fear for his life” window from the struggle at the police vehicle.

Lawhawk? Any police trainers in?

49 OhNoZombies!  Aug 20, 2014 1:38:44pm

One of the first rules learned for those who take the manditory concealed carry classes ( my husband) is that you never take your gun out unless you plan to kill.

50 lawhawk  Aug 20, 2014 1:38:50pm

re: #43 lostlakehiker

Well yes. Of course. As I independently noted just now. There isn’t a whole lot of doubt but that it was an aimed shot. But it’s possible that Wilson went off the page, and it’s much more possible that this was his story and that law enforcement can’t prove that it was aimed so they didn’t say so.

Or the law enforcement omitted a key bit about aiming at Brown, leaving the wording purposefully ambiguous.

51 Bulworth  Aug 20, 2014 1:39:10pm

re:
#39

Brown started to open the driver’s door? That sounds odd.

52 Targetpractice  Aug 20, 2014 1:39:44pm

If we’re to believe the scenario where Wilson was suffering severe facial injuries, up to a fracture of the bones in his skull, then his shooting “warning shots” screams “LIABILITY” to any self-respecting police department. A cop that’s firing “warning shots” is putting people other than the suspect in danger.

53 Kragar  Aug 20, 2014 1:40:41pm

re: #45 Charles Johnson

Several witnesses say Wilson tried to throw the door open but it was blocked at first by Brown’s body. Shortly after that the first shot was fired.

I wouldn’t be surprised if Wilson hit himself in the face with the door trying to get out of the car.

54 Skip Intro  Aug 20, 2014 1:40:42pm

re: #48 Rightwingconspirator

Oh boy. Question becomes, legally speaking here not morally….
Does the use of deadly force policy allow a policeman to shoot a fleeing felon absent an immediate threat to public safety? How long does that “fear for his life” window from the struggle at the police vehicle.

Lawhawk? Any police trainers in?

When did he become a felon?

55 Timothy Watson  Aug 20, 2014 1:40:44pm

re: #48 Rightwingconspirator

Oh boy. Question becomes, legally speaking here not morally….
Does the use of deadly force policy allow a policeman to shoot a fleeing felon absent an immediate threat to public safety? How long does that “fear for his life” window from the struggle at the police vehicle.

Lawhawk? Any police trainers in?

Shotting to stop a fleeing felon was ruled unconstitutional years ago, I don’t know case off the top of my head. It was a SCOTUS case involving a burglary suspect.

56 ausador  Aug 20, 2014 1:41:14pm

re: #30 Pie-onist Overlord

Wait, what?

[Embedded content]

British talk for frozen fruit drink concentrate.

57 Pie-onist Overlord  Aug 20, 2014 1:41:20pm

Scouting out pie recipes now.

This one looks good.

This one looks good too.

58 stockman  Aug 20, 2014 1:41:27pm

From the article:
” The Ferguson police chief, Thomas Jackson, said that it was around the time that Officer Wilson started talking to the two that he realized they fit the description of the suspects in the convenience store robbery.”

Is there any information as to how the officer got this information in the middle of a stop?

My CCW instructor says definitely… no warning shots.

59 Sionainn  Aug 20, 2014 1:41:30pm

And here’s Fox News with their story about how Wilson was badly beaten by Brown. Link

60 Shvaughn  Aug 20, 2014 1:41:37pm

“Squash,” the drink

61 Charles Johnson  Aug 20, 2014 1:41:39pm

re: #53 Kragar

I wouldn’t be surprised if Wilson hit himself in the face with the door trying to get out of the car.

That hadn’t occurred to me, but yes, that’s a possible explanation for facial injuries.

62 Timothy Watson  Aug 20, 2014 1:42:02pm

Here you guys go:
en.m.wikipedia.org

63 GlutenFreeJesus  Aug 20, 2014 1:42:14pm

re: #25 Timothy Watson

Yeah, cops don’t fire warning shots and they don’t shot people in the hands, etc. They’re trained to shot to stop a threat to themselves or others.

Or to shoot unarmed kids in the back if you’re Ferguson PD.

64 jaunte  Aug 20, 2014 1:42:26pm

re: #53 Kragar

I wouldn’t be surprised if Wilson hit himself in the face with the door trying to get out of the car.

Jumping up out of an SUV in a hurry, yes.

65 klys  Aug 20, 2014 1:42:37pm

re: #39 Skip Intro

Thanks for the quick response.

So possibly Brown started to open the drivers side door, Wilson unholstered his weapon, and somehow a shot was fired.

Brown may or may not have assaulted Wilson, running away after the gun shot.

Is this a reasonable interpretation of the events so far?

I would agree with the statement I bolded and hesitate to endorse your first paragraph. There’s very little evidence to support Brown as the aggressor.

66 wrenchwench  Aug 20, 2014 1:42:46pm

re: #49 OhNoZombies!

One of the first rules learned for those who take the manditory concealed carry classes ( my husband) is that you never take your gun out unless you plan to kill.

When I was a kid Milwaukee had a problem with cops killing too many suspects, and the rule came down that you never try to wound someone, if you shoot at all, your intention must be to kill. This would have been 50 years ago, explained to me by my mom.

67 Sionainn  Aug 20, 2014 1:42:54pm

re: #61 Charles Johnson

That hadn’t occurred to me, but yes, that’s a possible explanation for facial injuries.

Didn’t we originally hear that Wilson opened the door and hit Brown with it? That could certainly mean that the door bounced back and hit Wilson in the face, pissing him off enough to pull his gun.

68 Rightwingconspirator  Aug 20, 2014 1:43:08pm

re: #54 Skip Intro

Assaulting a police officer, if that’s true anyway. I’m trying to see if the existing policy was broken. If not and this cop does not face legal sanction, well as Charles pointed out that’s how the RK riots started.

69 Targetpractice  Aug 20, 2014 1:43:46pm

re: #61 Charles Johnson

That hadn’t occurred to me, but yes, that’s a possible explanation for facial injuries.

That was my first thought when I read “facial injuries” in conjunction with the bit about how Brown’s body blocked the door. In fact, I think Wilson showed up to the scene with a bad attitude and thinks quickly devolved from there, with Wilson being the belligerent party.

70 Shvaughn  Aug 20, 2014 1:44:22pm

I am still flabbergasted that they lost the bullet that hit Mya.

I should put “lost” in quotes, because clearly whoever took it from the hospital knows exactly where it is.

71 klys  Aug 20, 2014 1:44:32pm

re: #68 Rightwingconspirator

Assaulting a police officer, if that’s true anyway.

In general, we give folks the presumption of innocence until convicted. Would be nice to extend that to Michael in this case.

72 Ace-o-aces  Aug 20, 2014 1:44:38pm

re: #61 Charles Johnson

That hadn’t occurred to me, but yes, that’s a possible explanation for facial injuries.

BREAKING!!! Sources: Brown used car door as weapon to beat Wilson!

Just wait.

73 Pie-onist Overlord  Aug 20, 2014 1:45:14pm

This one looks good too.

74 Lidane  Aug 20, 2014 1:45:15pm

re: #36 lostlakehiker

Like I said, it’s a good inference. Police shouldn’t fire in residential areas unless it’s absolutely necessary, because bullets don’t just disappear if they miss. They have to go somewhere.

FTFY. They shouldn’t take a shot AT ALL unless they don’t have any other choice.

This is also why the open carry dipshits here in Texas piss me off. WTF good does it do to carry a long gun out in the open? What are they going to do, open fire with it on a busy public street if they get mugged? That bullet is going to travel a long distance and it’s not guaranteed to stop inside the body that they think they’re aiming for.

75 klys  Aug 20, 2014 1:45:20pm

Youtube Video

76 GlutenFreeJesus  Aug 20, 2014 1:45:23pm

re: #67 Self Respecting Woman Voter Against the GOP

Didn’t we originally hear that Wilson opened the door and hit Brown with it? That could certainly mean that the door bounced back and hit Wilson in the face, pissing him off enough to pull his gun.

Or he was already reaching for his gun while opening the door. It rebounds, hits him in the face, and he flinches with his trigger finger.

77 Kragar  Aug 20, 2014 1:45:36pm

re: #67 Self Respecting Woman Voter Against the GOP

Didn’t we originally hear that Wilson opened the door and hit Brown with it? That could certainly mean that the door bounced back and hit Wilson in the face, pissing him off enough to pull his gun.

That is what I pretty much thought since the story first came out.

78 Shazam  Aug 20, 2014 1:45:54pm

According to Dorian Johnson, Wilson had already drove past them and Wilson threw his car in reverse and, supposedly, almost hit them. Wilson tried opening his door, but it hit Brown and slammed shut again. He then grabbed Brown’s neck and tried to pull him into the car through the window for some reason—out of pure fury, I guess.

This doesn’t support any statement that Wilson connected them with a crime. He simply told them to get on the sidewalk and when they didn’t, he furiously backed up to them and started a confrontation.

79 Bulworth  Aug 20, 2014 1:46:01pm

re:
#72

All 12 witnesses confirm. FACT!

80 Skip Intro  Aug 20, 2014 1:46:28pm

re: #68 Rightwingconspirator

Assaulting a police officer, if that’s true anyway.

Don’t you have to be convicted first to become a felon? At the very least you have to be charged with a felony.

81 danarchy  Aug 20, 2014 1:46:30pm

re: #54 Skip Intro

When did he become a felon?

IF he struck the officer that is a felony.

82 Shvaughn  Aug 20, 2014 1:47:26pm

re: #81 danarchy

IF he struck the officer that is a felony.

But he doesn’t become a felon until convicted.

83 Skip Intro  Aug 20, 2014 1:49:09pm

re: #65 klys

I would agree with the statement I bolded and hesitate to endorse your first paragraph. There’s very little evidence to support Brown as the aggressor.

If, as some have claimed, Wilson grabbed Brown by the throat, I can see him trying to free himself, and that might have involved trying to get the door open.

One other question comes up. Aren’t cop car doors locked from the outside to keep people from just jumping in?

84 Shvaughn  Aug 20, 2014 1:49:10pm

The word you are fumbling for is not “felon,” it is “suspect.” And even that is questionable.

85 sagehen  Aug 20, 2014 1:50:06pm

re: #39 Skip Intro

Thanks for the quick response.

So possibly Brown started to open the drivers side door, Wilson unholstered his weapon, and somehow a shot was fired.

Brown may or may not have assaulted Wilson, running away after the gun shot.

Is this a reasonable interpretation of the events so far?

I somehow got the impression (not sure exactly how, can’t swear I’ve got it right) that Wilson was opening the door, Brown either either pushed it back shut or it bounced off him and shut, and that’s when Wilson reached through the window at Brown (possibly one-handed? Or got a grip and then let go with one hand to reach for his weapon with the other)…

Then Brown ran off, and Wilson got out of the car.

86 danarchy  Aug 20, 2014 1:50:15pm

re: #82 Shvaughn

But he doesn’t become a felon until convicted.

If that was true the term “convicted felon” would be redundant no? Maybe suspected felon would have been better phrasing.

87 De Kolta Chair  Aug 20, 2014 1:50:36pm

re: #17 wrenchwench

Did you see the letter?

[Embedded content]

I love this part:

‘When asked for his identity, the officer invites citizens to fuck themselves.’

Sheriff Joe Arpaio would call that an excellent reference letter.

88 Shvaughn  Aug 20, 2014 1:50:47pm

As in, at the time he was shot, what crime was Brown suspected of committing? It is wholly unclear. Fleeing the scene of a gun discharge?

89 Sionainn  Aug 20, 2014 1:51:41pm

re: #88 Shvaughn

As in, at the time he was shot, what crime was Brown suspected of committing? It is wholly unclear. Fleeing the scene of a gun discharge?

Walking down the middle of the street, so basically jaywalking. Big fucking crime….

90 Timothy Watson  Aug 20, 2014 1:52:13pm

re: #82 Shvaughn

But he doesn’t become a felon until convicted.

It used to be that you could shot a fleeing felon regardless of whether he was a convicted or not, e.g., someone caught in In flagrante delicto.

91 Charles Johnson  Aug 20, 2014 1:52:23pm

For example, this:

If he had actually watched the video instead of just looking at the thumbnail image he would know that the witness says very clearly it’s the officer who shot Michael Brown, i.e. Darren Wilson.

92 Gus  Aug 20, 2014 1:52:24pm

The officer, who has not yet been identified, can be seen wearing a St. Ann Police Department badge. Phone calls to the department were not immediately returned.

huffingtonpost.com

93 Shvaughn  Aug 20, 2014 1:52:29pm

re: #86 danarchy

If that was true the term “convicted felon” would be redundant no? Maybe suspected felon would have been better phrasing.

“Convicted felon” is merely a way of piling on redundancies to make someone seem worse to the public. It’s like calling someone a “hardened criminal.” It has no legal meaning.

94 danarchy  Aug 20, 2014 1:52:33pm

re: #88 Shvaughn

As in, at the time he was shot, what crime was Brown suspected of committing? It is wholly unclear. Fleeing the scene of a gun discharge?

If, and I stress the if, he struck the officer as appears to be the claim, then the officer would have a pretty good reason to suspect him of battery.

95 OhNoZombies!  Aug 20, 2014 1:52:50pm

So did the gun go off after Wilson hit himself in the face with the door?

96 Kilroy01  Aug 20, 2014 1:53:19pm

I wonder if the bother to fingerprint the gun or vehicle?
If Brown opened the SUV’s door his fingerprints (at least smudges) would be there.

I mean simple evidence.

Somehow I doubt any of that was done by the fine officers of Ferguson.

If it goes to trial, and if released information from the autopsy is correct, there is no evidence Brown hit him except the officers word.

97 Feline Fearless Leader  Aug 20, 2014 1:53:27pm

re: #47 sagehen

Squash the vegetable. squash the sorta-tennisish-game, or squash the sitting on something?

It’s also a drink.
en.wikipedia.org

98 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Aug 20, 2014 1:54:21pm

re: #71 klys

In general, we give folks the presumption of innocence until convicted. Would be nice to extend that to Michael in this case.

sorry, wrong color. these people is born guilty

/

99 Shvaughn  Aug 20, 2014 1:54:25pm

re: #94 danarchy

If, and I stress the if, he struck the officer as appears to be the claim, then the officer would have a pretty good reason to suspect him of battery.

And what are the procedures if someone suspected of battery on a police officer is fleeing?

100 Drimble Wedge  Aug 20, 2014 1:54:34pm

BREAKING: Inside sources indicate that Michael Brown’s autopsy revealed he was a mutant with the Magneto-like power of lead magnetism. Explains the multiple anonymous eyewitness accounts that Officer Wilson never fired his weapon when Brown turned to face him and raised his arms.

101 Timothy Watson  Aug 20, 2014 1:56:39pm

re: #99 Shvaughn

And what are the procedures if someone suspected of battery on a police officer is fleeing?

You chase them.

102 Danny  Aug 20, 2014 1:56:57pm

re: #96 Kilroy01

I haven’t seen any claims from any of the PD spokespersons that Brown opened the door or actually touched Wilson’s gun. Did I miss something?

103 dog philosopher  Aug 20, 2014 1:57:27pm

Missouri cop was badly beaten before shooting Michael Brown, says source
Fox News - 𠃡 hour ago‎

Darren Wilson, the Ferguson, Mo., police officer whose fatal shooting of Michael Brown touched off more than a week of demonstrations, suffered severe facial injuries, including an orbital (eye socket) fracture, and was nearly beaten unconscious by Brown …

what the trolls are hearing

104 Dave In Austin  Aug 20, 2014 1:58:52pm

Suborbital trauma takes aiming a .40 or .45 cal. to a whole new meaning of “Laser Focus”

105 wrenchwench  Aug 20, 2014 1:59:32pm
106 Shvaughn  Aug 20, 2014 1:59:44pm

Being suspected of committing a felony makes you a suspect. Even being charged with a felony does not make you a felon. A felon is someone who has been convicted of a felony.

Calling a fleeing suspect a “felon” is yet more of the bullshit meant to exonerate Wilson by making his execution of Brown seem reasonable.

107 Skip Intro  Aug 20, 2014 1:59:53pm

re: #102 Danny

I haven’t seen any claims from any of the PD spokespersons that Brown opened the door or actually touched Wilson’s gun. Did I miss something?

We’ll have to wait for them to leak it to Jim Hoft or Fox News to find out.

108 Rightwingconspirator  Aug 20, 2014 2:00:07pm

re: #84 Shvaughn

The word you are fumbling for is not “felon,” it is “suspect.” And even that is questionable.

That’s incorrect. The law provides for an ordinary citizen to use force to stop a felony. Like a rape. Obviously there is no conviction yet.

What a person is suspected of (infraction vs misdemeanor vs felony like armed robbery) has an impact on what police can do.

109 Decatur Deb  Aug 20, 2014 2:00:46pm

re: #105 wrenchwench

[Embedded content]

Suitable for framing.

110 goddamnedfrank  Aug 20, 2014 2:01:23pm

File under Clinically Fucktarded:

Compton School Board Approves AR-15 Rifles for Campus Police

111 Dave In Austin  Aug 20, 2014 2:01:38pm

re: #105 wrenchwench

With a typewriter no less….

112 Rightwingconspirator  Aug 20, 2014 2:02:06pm

re: #106 Shvaughn

Calling a fleeing suspect a “felon” is yet more of the bullshit meant to exonerate Wilson by making his execution of Brown seem reasonable.

it should i hope be clear that’s not at all what I meant.

113 Shvaughn  Aug 20, 2014 2:02:44pm

Example: Rick Perry is a suspect. He has been charged with a felony. He is not, however, a felon. If he ran away from a cop and was shot, he would not be “a fleeing felon” but a fleeing suspect.

Also nobody on the Right would be calling him a felon.

114 Skip Intro  Aug 20, 2014 2:02:53pm

Does anyone else think that Jim Hoft has a lock on next years CPAC Journalist of the Year award?

115 KerFuFFler  Aug 20, 2014 2:03:00pm

re: #67 Sionainn

Didn’t we originally hear that Wilson opened the door and hit Brown with it? That could certainly mean that the door bounced back and hit Wilson in the face, pissing him off enough to pull his gun.

That’s pretty much how I remember Johnson’s account of it. Somehow I also got the impression from Johnson that Wilson intentionally swung the door open to hit Brown——it seems like cops often choose seemingly innocuous ways of man handling people in ways they think they can get away with easily. (Remember how the cop marching the journalist out of the McDonald’s “accidentally” on purpose knocked him into the door and then sarcastically said, “sorry”?)

After Wilson (hypothetically) slammed the door open hitting Brown, it is possible that Brown shoved back on the door hitting Wilson. Such a reflex should not be considered a full blown assault though it could explain Wilson getting a bump on his head or face. Such an event is no reason to start shooting at someone.

116 goddamnedfrank  Aug 20, 2014 2:03:22pm

re: #108 Rightwingconspirator

That’s incorrect. The law provides for an ordinary citizen to use force to stop a felony. Like a rape. Obviously there is no conviction yet.

What a person is suspected of (infraction vs misdemeanor vs felony like armed robbery) has an impact on what police can do.

You can stop a life threatening assault in progress. Only prison guards get to shoot at someone who is running away, and even that is fucked up.

117 OhNoZombies!  Aug 20, 2014 2:03:24pm

re: #111 Dave In Austin

With a typewriter no less….

What more would you expect from a person who still uses the term Negro?

118 Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 20, 2014 2:03:38pm

re: #105 wrenchwench

[Embedded content]

Somebody who still uses a typewriter!!!

119 Shvaughn  Aug 20, 2014 2:03:48pm

re: #108 Rightwingconspirator

That’s incorrect. The law provides for an ordinary citizen to use force to stop a felony. Like a rape. Obviously there is no conviction yet.

What a person is suspected of (infraction vs misdemeanor vs felony like armed robbery) has an impact on what police can do.

So are you saying he is “a felon?” Because that is dishonest bullshit if so.

120 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Aug 20, 2014 2:03:55pm

re: #113 Shvaughn

Example: Rick Perry is a suspect. He has been charged with a felony. He is not, however, a felon. If he ran away from a cop and was shot, he would not be “a fleeing felon” but a fleeing suspect.

Also nobody on the Right would be calling him a felon.

And even if he is convicted, they will call him a political martyr, like Dinesh D’Souza.

121 Kilroy01  Aug 20, 2014 2:04:18pm

re: #102 Danny

I haven’t seen any claims from any of the PD spokespersons that Brown opened the door or actually touched Wilson’s gun. Did I miss something?

There have been so many claims and counter-claims it is hard to keep up.
But if Brown “beat” the officer he’d have to touch the vehicle with his hands, which would be evidence.

122 wrenchwench  Aug 20, 2014 2:04:27pm

re: #112 Rightwingconspirator

it should i hope be clear that’s not at all what I meant.

I took it for an error. Gotta be crystal clear sometimes.

123 makeitstop  Aug 20, 2014 2:04:39pm

re: #53 Kragar

I wouldn’t be surprised if Wilson hit himself in the face with the door trying to get out of the car.

Agreed. I also think that the shot fired inside the vehicle might have been from Barney Fife fumbling with his weapon and getting his finger on the trigger too fast.

124 Rightwingconspirator  Aug 20, 2014 2:05:03pm

re: #116 goddamnedfrank

. Only prison guards get to shoot at someone who is running away, and even that is fucked up.

Sorry, incorrect. A man fleeing police with a gun in hand after a robbery or shooting can be shot. Public safety imperative etc.

125 Shvaughn  Aug 20, 2014 2:05:27pm

re: #112 Rightwingconspirator

it should i hope be clear that’s not at all what I meant.

Then you should be more careful about how you choose your words. Words have meanings. Calling a suspect a felon is presuming his guilt.

126 Decatur Deb  Aug 20, 2014 2:05:28pm

re: #111 Dave In Austin

With a typewriter no less….

Round up twice the usual number of museum workers.

127 Skip Intro  Aug 20, 2014 2:06:20pm

re: #125 Shvaughn

Then you should be more careful about how you choose your words. Words have meanings. Calling a suspect a felon is presuming his guilt.

RW tweeters have been doing it for days now.

128 Shvaughn  Aug 20, 2014 2:07:25pm

re: #127 Skip Intro

RW tweeters have been doing it for days now.

Yeah and they are evil fucks, I expect more from lizards.

129 Rightwingconspirator  Aug 20, 2014 2:07:25pm

re: #119 Shvaughn

So are you saying he is “a felon?” Because that is dishonest bullshit if so.

re: #125 Shvaughn

You did not really read my post above. I was asked what felony… And this is in the context of during the incident not after a trial.

Assaulting a police officer, if that’s true anyway.

Why was my caveat not taken into consideration? Is there not some witness report reasons to agree there was a scuffle at the onset on the incident? ?

130 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Aug 20, 2014 2:07:30pm

re: #127 Skip Intro

RW tweeters have been doing it for days now.

We come here to get away from that.

131 darthstar  Aug 20, 2014 2:08:32pm

Wow…Germany joining the fight against ISIS? How so much has changed since 2008.

132 goddamnedfrank  Aug 20, 2014 2:09:06pm

re: #124 Rightwingconspirator

Sorry, incorrect. A man fleeing police with a gun in hand after a robbery or shooting can be shot. Public safety imperative etc.

Brown was unarmed. He wasn’t an imminent threat to anybody just running away. Whatever public safety angle Wison might have claimed flew out the window when he shot while running after him and missed, sending bullets into nearby homes.

There’s literally zero justification for the officer’s actions here.

133 darthstar  Aug 20, 2014 2:10:07pm

re: #131 darthstar

ft.com’s paywall sucks.

134 goddamnedfrank  Aug 20, 2014 2:10:51pm

re: #133 darthstar

ft.com’s paywall sucks.

Yep, almost as much as people who like Entourage.

135 darthstar  Aug 20, 2014 2:11:52pm
136 Rightwingconspirator  Aug 20, 2014 2:11:56pm

re: #132 goddamnedfrank

Brown was unarmed. He wasn’t an imminent threat to anybody just running away. Whatever public safety angle Wison might have claimed flew out the window when he shot while running after him and missed, sending bullets into nearby homes.

There’s literally zero justification for the officer’s actions here.

How can you be so sure that is how the legalities will actually play out? Again I made it clear by delineating legal from moral above.

137 danarchy  Aug 20, 2014 2:13:31pm

re: #99 Shvaughn

And what are the procedures if someone suspected of battery on a police officer is fleeing?

Here are the Missouri rules on Law enforcement use of deadly force

Law enforcement officer’s use of force in making an arrest.
563.046. 1. A law enforcement officer need not retreat or desist from efforts to effect the arrest, or from efforts to prevent the escape from custody, of a person he reasonably believes to have committed an offense because of resistance or threatened resistance of the arrestee. In addition to the use of physical force authorized under other sections of this chapter, he is, subject to the provisions of subsections 2 and 3, justified in the use of such physical force as he reasonably believes is immediately necessary to effect the arrest or to prevent the escape from custody.

2. The use of any physical force in making an arrest is not justified under this section unless the arrest is lawful or the law enforcement officer reasonably believes the arrest is lawful.

3. A law enforcement officer in effecting an arrest or in preventing an escape from custody is justified in using deadly force only

(1) When such is authorized under other sections of this chapter; or

(2) When he reasonably believes that such use of deadly force is immediately necessary to effect the arrest and also reasonably believes that the person to be arrested

(a) Has committed or attempted to commit a felony; or

(b) Is attempting to escape by use of a deadly weapon; or

(c) May otherwise endanger life or inflict serious physical injury unless arrested without delay.

4. The defendant shall have the burden of injecting the issue of justification under this section.

It may be fucked up, but it appears an officer can use deadly force to effect the arrest or prevent the escape of someone he suspects of having commited a felony. That’s my lay persons reading of it anyhow. I am sure there are other statutes and regulations that would also come into play though.

138 Bubblehead II  Aug 20, 2014 2:13:55pm

re: #111 Dave In Austin

With a typewriter no less….

hey! I still own a fully functional Remington Easy-Riter portable typewriter.

Haven’t used it in years, but if I need it, it’s there.

139 William of Orange  Aug 20, 2014 2:13:58pm

Try to spin thát, Jim Hoft!!

140 Rightwingconspirator  Aug 20, 2014 2:15:06pm

re: #132 goddamnedfrank

So you understand police can sometimes fire at a fleeing felonious suspect, it’s not just prison guards? Because these discussions that involve the law and how it works can’t really be constrained by the particulars of this incident. way too much missing data.

141 KerFuFFler  Aug 20, 2014 2:15:09pm

re: #121 Kilroy01

There have been so many claims and counter-claims it is hard to keep up.
But if Brown “beat” the officer he’d have to touch the vehicle with his hands, which would be evidence.

Actually, Brown could have thrown a punch through the open window without leaving fingerprints———-though the autopsy showed no signs of any such involvement on Brown’s hands. Brown would have left fingerprints on the door if he were pushing against the door, trying to pull away from someone who had caught hold of him. Fingerprints on the actual door handle would have to be found to support the idea that he opened the door to attack the officer.

142 HappyWarrior  Aug 20, 2014 2:15:24pm

re: #135 darthstar

[Embedded content]

I was thinking more of “When did Mr. Clean become a real person?”

143 goddamnedfrank  Aug 20, 2014 2:15:28pm

re: #136 Rightwingconspirator

How can you be so sure that is how the legalities will actually play out? Again I made it clear by delineating legal from moral above.

I’m not, the legalities depend on the infinite capacity of a human jury for abject retardation. However there is still zero goddamned justification for trying to run and gun at an unarmed fleeing suspect from behind, even if he did beat your ass. It’s damned near the most irresponsible, fucked up behavior imaginable.

144 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Aug 20, 2014 2:15:41pm

Now this is going too far. Time to retaliate:

Putin Strikes Back at US Sanctions by Closing Russian McDonald’s

145 HappyWarrior  Aug 20, 2014 2:16:33pm

re: #105 wrenchwench

[Embedded content]

Did I wake up and it was 1964. Really now. So far to go in this long journey.

146 HappyWarrior  Aug 20, 2014 2:16:56pm

re: #144 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

Now this is going too far. Time to retaliate:

Putin Strikes Back at US Sanctions by Closing Russian McDonald’s

That’s it. No more Smirnoff.//

147 goddamnedfrank  Aug 20, 2014 2:17:21pm

I see pedantry is in season.

148 Kragar  Aug 20, 2014 2:18:45pm
149 Lidane  Aug 20, 2014 2:19:23pm

re: #145 HappyWarrior

Did I wake up and it was 1964. Really now. So far to go in this long journey.

You want another image from 1964? Here ya go:

CNN Anchor Suggests Police Use Water Cannons On Ferguson Protesters

150 Rightwingconspirator  Aug 20, 2014 2:19:42pm

re: #143 goddamnedfrank

I’m not, the legalities depend on the infinite capacity of a human jury for abject retardation. However there is still zero goddamned justification for trying to run and gun at an unarmed fleeing suspect from behind, even if he did beat your ass. It’s damned near the most irresponsible, fucked up behavior imaginable.

Look if you think I’m defending the cops actions, start re thinking you got it way wrong. I even included the caveats.

It’s an awful catch 22. A cop detains one wrongly. Armed with only this knowledge as a certainty, one resists him physically. Now the policeman has legal justification to escalate the force along the force continuum. A small thing becomes a big thing, dangerously so.

151 HappyWarrior  Aug 20, 2014 2:20:02pm

re: #148 Kragar

[Embedded content]

God he’s not even original. I give him high points for the Mr. Clean cosplay though.

152 HappyWarrior  Aug 20, 2014 2:20:25pm

re: #149 Lidane

You want another image from 1964? Here ya go:

CNN Anchor Suggests Police Use Water Cannons On Ferguson Protesters

Yeah I did see that. The fuck.

153 Skip Intro  Aug 20, 2014 2:22:06pm

re: #148 Kragar

Anybody know how Joe makes a buck these days? Does being the bald Sarah Palin pay well?

154 Kragar  Aug 20, 2014 2:22:10pm
155 Rightwingconspirator  Aug 20, 2014 2:23:05pm

re: #137 danarchy

+1 as it helps us understand what the law says and therefore the legal landscape events will continue in. .To be clear on this obviously touchy topic I also mention that I don’t support that language in that law.

156 Schadenboner  Aug 20, 2014 2:24:04pm

re: #144 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

Now this is going too far. Time to retaliate:

Putin Strikes Back at US Sanctions by Closing Russian McDonald’s

Like, this aggression will not stand, man.

157 goddamnedfrank  Aug 20, 2014 2:24:22pm

If shooting a suspected fleeing felon is okay then you’ve justified using firearms to stop many reckless high speed vehicle police chases and multiple DUI suspects. At least in those cases the suspects are actually armed with dangerous weapons.

158 Shiplord Kirel  Aug 20, 2014 2:24:43pm

re: #149 Lidane

You want another image from 1964? Here ya go:

CNN Anchor Suggests Police Use Water Cannons On Ferguson Protesters

I had the idea of replacing the water cannon with a truck mounted high pressure incinerator that would quickly convert large amounts of marijuana into dense clouds of smoke that could be directed at unruly crowds. HIgh tensile spring operated catapults could then launch whole cases of doritos and oreos into the mob.

159 dholmes32  Aug 20, 2014 2:24:46pm

re: #148 Kragar

Asshat. But the RWNJs will cheer on his “telling truth to power”. Blergh.

160 Shiplord Kirel  Aug 20, 2014 2:25:13pm

re: #156 Schadenboner

Like, this aggression will not stand, man.

Big Mac attack!

161 HappyWarrior  Aug 20, 2014 2:25:14pm

re: #159 dholmes32

Asshat. But the RWNJs will cheer on his “telling truth to power”. Blergh.

“He’s just not being PC libtard.” I guarantee there will be some variation of that defense.

162 jaunte  Aug 20, 2014 2:25:19pm

re: #105 wrenchwench

“Negro sympathizer”
“cockroaches”

I need a drink.

163 Lidane  Aug 20, 2014 2:26:47pm

re: #158 Shiplord Kirel

I had the idea of replacing the water cannon with a truck mounted high pressure incinerator that would quickly convert large amounts of marijuana into dense clouds of smoke that could be directed at unruly crowds. HIgh tensile spring operated catapults could then launch whole cases of doritos and oreos into the mob.

Shit, you could set that up during ACL or the Austin Reggae Festival and save people money. They’d love you for it.

164 Kilroy01  Aug 20, 2014 2:27:10pm

re: #144 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

Great..

165 ausador  Aug 20, 2014 2:27:15pm

re: #116 goddamnedfrank

You can stop a life threatening assault in progress. Only prison guards get to shoot at someone who is running away, and even that is fucked up.

Florida prison officers have a tradition, whoever shoots an escapee gets a six pack of beer from every other officer on shift. (just one of those good-old-boy things)

166 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Aug 20, 2014 2:28:35pm

re: #154 Kragar

I’d like to thank Joe the Plumber for his Ferguson remarks. He shows how fucking clownshow conservatives really are in this country

The GOP has gone from a party where you can way things like this and still get away with it to a party where you have to say things like this to get elected.

167 Kragar  Aug 20, 2014 2:30:03pm
168 EPR-radar  Aug 20, 2014 2:31:43pm

re: #166 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)

The GOP has gone from a party where you can way things like this and still get away with it to a party where you have to say things like this to get elected.

Bingo. This GOP is simply incapable of governance. A GOP office-holder is most likely a religious zealot, a puppet of religious zealots, a plutocrat or a puppet of plutocrats.

None of these options is helpful. Combinations of these are also useless.

169 iossarian  Aug 20, 2014 2:31:44pm

I see we’ve now reached the hand-wringing “but the law says X” stage of the “white people who kill innocent black people walk free” sweepstakes.

170 De Kolta Chair  Aug 20, 2014 2:31:47pm

re: #164 Kilroy01

Great..
[Embedded image]

Over 3 million served, in the gulags that is.

171 KerFuFFler  Aug 20, 2014 2:31:56pm

re: #148 Kragar

Joe the Plumber: Hold a job fair in #Ferguson and protestors will “scatter like cockroaches”

What a fucking asshole. People who read my comments with any regularity may notice that I rarely am reduced to such foul mouthed name-calling, but in this case what else is there to say? (Sarah sure can pick’em.)

172 darthstar  Aug 20, 2014 2:33:45pm

Oklahoma’s Geology Survey recorded an unprecedented 20 small earthquakes across the state on Tuesday, highlighting the dramatic increase of seismic activity that has occurred there as the controversial process of hydraulic fracturing — otherwise known as fracking — has spread across the state.

173 Charles Johnson  Aug 20, 2014 2:34:33pm

Whoa - just noticed that the post about the eyewitness video of Darren Wilson has almost 12,000 hits from the Twitter link.

174 Ace-o-aces  Aug 20, 2014 2:34:34pm

re: #148 Kragar

But he’s not a racist.

175 Schadenboner  Aug 20, 2014 2:35:04pm

re: #161 HappyWarrior

“He’s just not being PC libtard.” I guarantee there will be some variation of that defense.

I will confess that, like David Foster Wallace, I often have a hard time telling the difference between people “not being PC” and those “being colossal assholes, taking joy in causing those weaker than themselves discomfort”.

Probably just my poor language skills, what with my being a Dumbocrat and all…

176 darthstar  Aug 20, 2014 2:35:15pm
177 goddamnedfrank  Aug 20, 2014 2:35:41pm

Seriously, if we’re going to go down this road then why don’t cops shoot at people who drive recklessly on the freeway to evade arrest? Those people are armed with a car and they’re endangering everyone around them. Those people are generally suspected felons in the active process of a continuing, dangerous felony. Why the double standard when it comes to an unarmed black man fleeing on foot?

So fucked up.

178 klys  Aug 20, 2014 2:36:02pm

re: #48 Rightwingconspirator

Oh boy. Question becomes, legally speaking here not morally….
Does the use of deadly force policy allow a policeman to shoot a fleeing felon absent an immediate threat to public safety? How long does that “fear for his life” window from the struggle at the police vehicle.

Lawhawk? Any police trainers in?

Going back to your original statement, I think you could have gotten the discussion you wanted if you had replaced the word felon with the word suspect.

Maybe you were looking to discuss the general concept but using such specific descriptions relevant to the case at hand and then describing the person in the role of Michael Brown - who had no criminal record - as a “felon” (which is a term typically applied to those convicted of a crime) was then somewhat distracting to what you wanted to discuss.

I don’t think it was anything other than poor choice in words but particularly in the context of the right-wing smear machine going in full force against Michael Brown, I think the pushback from your fellow Lizards is reasonable.

179 Schadenboner  Aug 20, 2014 2:36:28pm

re: #158 Shiplord Kirel

I had the idea of replacing the water cannon with a truck mounted high pressure incinerator that would quickly convert large amounts of marijuana into dense clouds of smoke that could be directed at unruly crowds. HIgh tensile spring operated catapults could then launch whole cases of doritos and oreos into the mob.

Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

180 Khal Wimpo  Aug 20, 2014 2:36:32pm

re: #55 Timothy Watson

Shotting to stop a fleeing felon was ruled unconstitutional years ago, I don’t know case off the top of my head. It was a SCOTUS case involving a burglary suspect.

As I recall, the case basically pivots on the idea that the State is only allowed to administer the death penalty to a citizen when that citizen poses a real and present threat to other citizens (i.e. running down the street with a machete, taking wild swings as pedestrians). You can’t empower law enforcement to administer the death penalty to someone before a trial, simply because they are trying to evade arrest. Perhaps the outcome of the trial would be innocent; perhaps it’s a case of mistaken identity (which we sell all too often these days in the SWAT-fueled drug sweeps).

In any case, the U.S. has long looked down at 3rd world countries where “La Ley Fuga” is imposed (i.e. “Shot while trying to escape.”).

181 Repleh  Aug 20, 2014 2:38:45pm

Just registered on lgf to commend the keen observation that even the police accounts now have Wilson shooting at a fleeing Brown. I’ve been shocked that this was not given bigger play in the NYT or even mentioned elsewhere.

I also wanted to point out how much evidence the FPD hasn’t released. The police dispatch recordings in particular would tell us what Wilson might have known before the stop, and crucially, how he first described the aftermath. The tapes might even have caught any exchange of words and/or blows that occurred in the car.

Is it unfair to assume that if this information was favorable to Wilson, it would have been released or leaked?

182 Decatur Deb  Aug 20, 2014 2:38:55pm

re: #177 goddamnedfrank

Seriously, if we’re going to go down this road then why don’t cops shoot at people who drive recklessly on the freeway to evade arrest? Those people are armed with a car and they’re endangering everyone around them. Those people are generally suspected felons in the active process of a continuing, dangerous felony. Why the double standard when it comes to an unarmed black man fleeing on foot?

So fucked up.

IIRC, episodes of Cops or similar documentary shows have included rare situations in which cops do shoot at fleeing cars. They usually go for the tires with shotguns. Then there are the two newspaper delivery ladies in LA who had their SUV aired out.

183 Shvaughn  Aug 20, 2014 2:38:56pm

Haha a banner ad here tells me “Kentucky Will Lead America” and urges me to “Stand with Mitch.”

184 Charles Johnson  Aug 20, 2014 2:39:36pm

We have another dead thread hero with another hearsay story about how people can suffer orbital fractures and never even notice.

185 Teukka  Aug 20, 2014 2:39:40pm

re: #15 Charles Johnson

Police don’t fire “warning shots” in residential areas, except in the movies.

And in Sweden. You really have to pose a threat to yourself or the public for Swedish to fire for effect without warning. And even then, most of the time, the police here aim for the extremities. Most times, firing warning shots ends with the perp or perps shitting themselves and the cause for the police needing to have their service weapons out ends.

The only times I’ve seen Swedish police fire to kill immediately have been when people have waved an AK in a crowded mall, or attacked police officers in a confined area or while wearing body armor.
Most fatalities after police shootings here tend to be because even tho aiming for extremities, the police bullet nicks a major blood vessel.

Click to Reveal

CAUTION: GRAPHIC
Youtube Video
Back Story:
The man getting in the picture had prior to this stabbed 3 random people, of which one died.
The first volley of shots are mostly warning shots until the guy drops.
The guy refused to drop his knife, makes lunge against the police officers, causing one of them to fire for effect again.
And even when that last shot immobilized him, he refused to let the gun go. You can hear several shouts “Släpp kniven!” (Lit: Let go of the knife!) in the video.
He died in hospital because one of the bullets had nicked his femoral artery.
Article about the shooting: sverigesradio.se

186 A Mom Anon  Aug 20, 2014 2:39:52pm

re: #179 Schadenboner

This sounds like a project for Kickstarter. All we’d need then would be a 1033 form for some kind of nifty military vehicle and a catchy name. I foresee a franchise possibility here too…

187 klys  Aug 20, 2014 2:39:58pm

re: #181 Repleh

Just registered on lgf to commend the keen observation that even the police accounts now have Wilson shooting at a fleeing Brown. I’ve been shocked that this was not given bigger play in the NYT or even mentioned elsewhere.

I also wanted to point out how much evidence the FPD hasn’t released. The police dispatch recordings in particular would tell us what Wilson might have known before the stop, and crucially, how he first described the aftermath. The tapes might even have caught any exchange of words and/or blows that occurred in the car.

Is it unfair to assume that if this information was favorable to Wilson, it would have been released or leaked?

I don’t know about unfair (ok, well, probably) but most of us are cynical enough to think it at this point.

Welcome hatchling.

188 Charles Johnson  Aug 20, 2014 2:40:26pm

re: #181 Repleh

Just registered on lgf to commend the keen observation that even the police accounts now have Wilson shooting at a fleeing Brown. I’ve been shocked that this was not given bigger play in the NYT or even mentioned elsewhere.

I also wanted to point out how much evidence the FPD hasn’t released. The police dispatch recordings in particular would tell us what Wilson might have known before the stop, and crucially, how he first described the aftermath. The tapes might even have caught any exchange of words and/or blows that occurred in the car.

Is it unfair to assume that if this information was favorable to Wilson, it would have been released or leaked?

Bingo.

189 Timothy Watson  Aug 20, 2014 2:41:05pm

To several people:
The use of the word “felon” does require that the person be convicted. The original “fleeing felon rule” allowed police to:

It is insisted that the Fourth Amendment must be construed in light of the common-law rule, which allowed the use of whatever force was necessary to effect the arrest of a fleeing felon, though not a misdemeanant. As stated in Hale’s posthumously published Pleas of the Crown:

“[I]f persons that are pursued by these officers for felony or the just suspicion thereof … shall not yield themselves to these officers, but shall either resist or fly before they are apprehended or being apprehended shall rescue themselves and resist or fly, so that they cannot be otherwise apprehended, and are upon necessity slain therein, because they cannot be otherwise taken, it is no felony.” 2 M. Hale, Historia Placitorum Coronae 85 (1736).

See also 4 W. Blackstone, Commentaries *289. Most American jurisdictions also imposed a flat prohibition against the use of deadly force to stop a fleeing misdemeanant, coupled with a general privilege to use such force to stop a fleeing felon. E. g., Holloway v. Moser, 193 N.C. 185, 136 S. E. 375 (1927); State v. Smith, 127 Iowa 534, 535, 103 N. W. 944, 945 (1905); Reneau v. State, 70 Tenn. 720 (1879); Brooks v. Commonwealth, 61 Pa. 352 (1869); Roberts v. State, 14 Mo. 138 (1851); see generally R. Perkins & R. Boyce, Criminal Law 1098-1102 (3d ed. 1982); Day, Shooting the Fleeing Felon: State of the Law, 14 Crim. L. Bull. 285, 286-287 (1978); Wilgus, Arrest Without a Warrant, 22 Mich. L. Rev. 798, 807-816 (1924). But see Storey v. State, 71 Ala. 329 (1882); State v. Bryant, 65 N.C. 327, 328 (1871); Caldwell v. State, 41 Tex. 86 (1874). [471 U.S. 1, 13]

The State and city argue that because this was the prevailing rule at the time of the adoption of the Fourth Amendment and for some time thereafter, and is still in force in some States, use of deadly force against a fleeing felon must be “reasonable.” It is true that this Court has often looked to the common law in evaluating the reasonableness, for Fourth Amendment purposes, of police activity. See, e. g., United States v. Watson, 423 U.S. 411, 418 -419 (1976); Gerstein v. Pugh, 420 U.S. 103, 111 , 114 (1975); Carroll v. United States, 267 U.S. 132, 149 -153 (1925). On the other hand, it “has not simply frozen into constitutional law those law enforcement practices that existed at the time of the Fourth Amendment’s passage.” Payton v. New York, 445 U.S. 573, 591 , n. 33 (1980). Because of sweeping change in the legal and technological context, reliance on the common-law rule in this case would be a mistaken literalism that ignores the purposes of a historical inquiry.

In none of that text does the use of the word “felon” mean that the person was convicted.

190 Schadenboner  Aug 20, 2014 2:41:05pm

re: #181 Repleh

Just registered on lgf to commend the keen observation that even the police accounts now have Wilson shooting at a fleeing Brown. I’ve been shocked that this was not given bigger play in the NYT or even mentioned elsewhere.

I also wanted to point out how much evidence the FPD hasn’t released. The police dispatch recordings in particular would tell us what Wilson might have known before the stop, and crucially, how he first described the aftermath. The tapes might even have caught any exchange of words and/or blows that occurred in the car.

Is it unfair to assume that if this information was favorable to Wilson, it would have been released or leaked?

Based on prior departmental behavior I would say that, while this would be not necessarily be a “fair” thing to assume, it would probably be an accurate thing to assume.

191 Odie Hugh Manatee  Aug 20, 2014 2:42:04pm

re: #45 Charles Johnson

Several witnesses say Wilson tried to throw the door open but it was blocked at first by Brown’s body. Shortly after that the first shot was fired.

I read the same thing shortly after the shooting happened. The way it read it sounded like the officer had delivered his line telling them to get the f’ out of the street, went slightly past them, stopped/slammed it into reverse, backed up/stopped, threw his door open, hitting Michael with it and then it bounced back at the officer.

Seeing the attitudes of the cops so far it wouldn’t surprise me a bit if the cop tried to slam Michael with the door and failed. The door bouncing back into him would have pissed him off even more than he was as he would have been seen by the guy he was trying to harass as an epic fail.

There’s nothing worse than someone in authority whose pride has been wounded.

192 Shvaughn  Aug 20, 2014 2:42:23pm

If he had a broken eye socket this would have been released over a week ago by the chief instead of “sources close to the police” talking to the dumbest man on the Internet nearly two weeks after the shooting.

193 Lidane  Aug 20, 2014 2:42:26pm

re: #184 Charles Johnson

We have another dead thread hero with another hearsay story about how people can suffer orbital fractures and never even notice.

A single speck of dirt in someone’s eye is often enough to send them looking for the Visine. Who wouldn’t notice an orbital fracture?

194 ausador  Aug 20, 2014 2:43:28pm

re: #177 goddamnedfrank

Seriously, if we’re going to go down this road then why don’t cops shoot at people who drive recklessly on the freeway to evade arrest? Those people are armed with a car and they’re endangering everyone around them. Those people are generally suspected felons in the active process of a continuing, dangerous felony. Why the double standard when it comes to an unarmed black man fleeing on foot?

So fucked up.

Because shooting at them does not reduce the risk to innocent bystanders, it increases it. Police do however shoot their tires out sometimes in order to effect a stop. In Florida if a police officer actually sees you (or thinks he did) committing a felony and then you try to flee he is allowed to shoot you provided that he is not “unduly” endangering the lives of others by doing so.

Edit: it seems that is no longer strictly true due to Tennessee v. Garner in 1985, the police have to believe you are also a threat to themselves or others.

195 goddamnedfrank  Aug 20, 2014 2:43:37pm

re: #182 Decatur Deb

IIRC, episodes of Cops or similar documentary shows have included rare situations in which cops do shoot at fleeing cars. They usually go for the tires with shotguns. Then there are the two newspaper delivery ladies in LA who had their SUV aired out.

Maybe cops in some places do try to shoot out tires, but I’ve never seen it except in the movies. Sounds like yokel-town behavior, not the kind of thing one expects of a professional police department. Those eight officers who lit up the two women in the Dorner hunt were disciplined, and the city ended up paying the victims millions in a settlement.

196 Interesting Times  Aug 20, 2014 2:44:09pm

re: #193 Lidane

A single speck of dirt in someone’s eye is often enough to send them looking for the Visine. Who wouldn’t notice an orbital fracture?

Well, some people say… (i.e. the dead-thread hero Charles referenced above)

197 Rightwingconspirator  Aug 20, 2014 2:44:35pm

re: #169 iossarian

I see we’ve now reached the hand-wringing “but the law says X” stage of the “white people who kill innocent black people walk free” sweepstakes.

Have not seen that here.

198 Schadenboner  Aug 20, 2014 2:45:23pm

re: #192 Shvaughn

If he had a broken eye socket this would have been released over a week ago by the chief instead of “sources close to the police” talking to the dumbest man on the Internet nearly two weeks after the shooting.

Ultimately the incompetence with which FPD has concocted their ridiculous defense of pretty indefensible behavior is the most damning indictment against them.

It isn’t that they’re a bunch of badged thugs who’ll lie to protect their own (although this is objectionable it’s hardly uncommon). It’s that that they’re such utter shit at it.

199 thedopefishlives  Aug 20, 2014 2:46:13pm

Evening Lizardim from the hot, humid, and rainy wild north country. How go things among the lizardfolk? Are we holding the line against the advancing waves of derp? Shall I get back to my trench-digging now, or man the artillery?

200 Decatur Deb  Aug 20, 2014 2:46:22pm

re: #195 goddamnedfrank

Maybe cops in some places do try to shoot out tires, but I’ve never seen it except in the movies. Sounds like yokel-town behavior, not the kind of thing one expects of a professional police department. Those eight officers who lit up the two women in the Dorner hunt were disciplined, and the city ended up paying the victims millions in a settlement.

Some level of internal discipline, but no criminal charges. Of course, that’s LA, not a professional force.

en.wikipedia.org

Edited to add the freakn’ link.

201 Teukka  Aug 20, 2014 2:46:45pm

re: #193 Lidane

A single speck of dirt in someone’s eye is often enough to send them looking for the Visine. Who wouldn’t notice an orbital fracture?

I’ve heard from multiple sources now that an orbital fracture renders you useless for precision activities as firing a weapon without hitting everything but the target in moments, and same goes for concussions (which also has been raised as an injury of Wilson’s at this juncture). Not might, not usually, but /always/.

202 Gus  Aug 20, 2014 2:48:28pm

Derp.

203 Shvaughn  Aug 20, 2014 2:48:43pm

Ah so basically we have people here arguing that under the law a felon is anyone the police think is a felon and thus can be executed at will for fleeing.

Nice to know.

204 Lidane  Aug 20, 2014 2:48:54pm

re: #202 Gus

The stupid is strong with that one.

205 HappyWarrior  Aug 20, 2014 2:48:54pm

re: #202 Gus

[Embedded content]

Derp.

Derp indeed.

206 gwangung  Aug 20, 2014 2:48:57pm

re: #197 Rightwingconspirator

Have not seen that here.

Think you need to look closely under the conditions under which police are ALLOWED to use deadly force. I think you’re being a mite too careless with them as it is very questionable those conditions held here.

207 jaunte  Aug 20, 2014 2:49:06pm

re: #202 Gus

What means this “pledging the flag?”

208 Decatur Deb  Aug 20, 2014 2:49:15pm

SPLC just called. They want us to include them in our wills. Might, if they’ll come by and mow the grass.

209 wrenchwench  Aug 20, 2014 2:49:49pm

re: #202 Gus

[Embedded content]

Derp.

He hasn’t reconsidered his life choices since at least 2008.

210 jaunte  Aug 20, 2014 2:50:53pm

re: #202 Gus

I remember when the President kept his hand over his heart at all times, and we liked it.
Wait maybe that was Napoleon.

211 WhatEVs  Aug 20, 2014 2:51:14pm

re: #8 lawhawk

re: Officer Go Fuck Yourself

But still a cop. An all around Lose-Lose for the citizens.

212 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Aug 20, 2014 2:51:14pm

re: #207 jaunte

What means this “pledging the flag?”

Using the flag to apply furniture polish?

213 klys  Aug 20, 2014 2:51:42pm

re: #211 WhatEVs

But still a cop. An all around Lose-Lose for the citizens.

214 OhNoZombies!  Aug 20, 2014 2:52:24pm

re: #204 Lidane

The stupid is strong with that one.

Never underestimate the power of the Derpside.

215 HappyWarrior  Aug 20, 2014 2:52:33pm

re: #213 klys

[Embedded content]

He should be fired and denied a pension. That shit is inexcusable.

216 Slap  Aug 20, 2014 2:53:22pm

re: #73 Pie-onist Overlord

This one WORKS. We’ve made it twice, and it’s a winner!

food.com

217 Shvaughn  Aug 20, 2014 2:53:46pm

re: #215 HappyWarrior

He should be fired and denied a pension. That shit is inexcusable.

Betting they don’t even name him.

218 dog philosopher  Aug 20, 2014 2:54:14pm

re: #210 jaunte

I remember when the President kept his hand over his heart at all times, and we liked it.
Wait maybe that was Napoleon.

napoleon was just scratching his left tit

219 Charles Johnson  Aug 20, 2014 2:54:46pm

I’ve blocked and muted about three dozen raving wingnuts today on Twitter. Been called a “retard” several times, a “maggot,” told I was irrelevant twice, got LOLed and LMAOed at, and had several loons tell me it isn’t Darren Wilson in that video and Jim Hoft is beating my ass.

Wheeee!

220 thedopefishlives  Aug 20, 2014 2:56:10pm

re: #219 Charles Johnson

I’ve blocked and muted about three dozen dozen raving wingnuts today on Twitter. Been called a “retard” several times, a “maggot,” told I was irrelevant twice, got LOLed and LMAOed at, and had several loons tell me it isn’t Darren Wilson in that video and Jim Hoft is beating my ass.

Wheeee!

In his dreams, maybe. The dark and twisted dreams of someone who struggles to put his pants on in the morning.

221 Charles Johnson  Aug 20, 2014 2:56:39pm

And oddly enough, the majority of the raving kooks have bios professing their Christianity, American flag backgrounds and avatars with Benghazi twibbons.

222 jaunte  Aug 20, 2014 2:57:56pm

re: #220 thedopefishlives

someone who struggles to put his pants on in the morning

Hey now, I was hardly awake.

223 danarchy  Aug 20, 2014 2:57:57pm

Just saw this pocket knife in an ad at the top of the page. Followed the link and looked at the price and had to do a double-take. Who the hell pays $15,000 for a pocket knife?

williamhenry.com

224 Franklin  Aug 20, 2014 2:58:23pm

re: #219 Charles Johnson

I’ve blocked and muted about three dozen dozen raving wingnuts today on Twitter. Been called a “retard” several times, a “maggot,” told I was irrelevant twice, got LOLed and LMAOed at, and had several loons tell me it isn’t Darren Wilson in that video and Jim Hoft is beating my ass.

Wheeee!

I saw someone tell you to “Eat Shit”. He was channeling his inner 80’s Highschool movie tough guy.

225 ausador  Aug 20, 2014 2:58:37pm

re: #207 jaunte

What means this “pledging the flag?”

I believe he is referring to that Rightwing meme about Obama not saluting the flag, not realizing that only armed service members and veterans are supposed to salute.

226 klys  Aug 20, 2014 2:58:38pm
227 thedopefishlives  Aug 20, 2014 2:58:47pm

re: #222 jaunte

Hey now, I was hardly awake.

I can’t really say too much myself. I once went to work with two different shoes on. In my defense, I dress in the dark and they were the same style of shoe, just two different (dark) colors.

228 thedopefishlives  Aug 20, 2014 2:59:34pm

re: #225 ausador

I believe he is referring to that Rightwing meme about Obama not saluting the flag, not realizing that only armed service members and veterans are supposed to salute.

HURR DURR BUT OBAMA IS TEH COMMANDER IN CHIEF!!!1!1

229 klys  Aug 20, 2014 2:59:44pm

re: #227 thedopefishlives

I can’t really say too much myself. I once went to work with two different shoes on. In my defense, I dress in the dark and they were the same style of shoe, just two different (dark) colors.

I make this really easy: I only have one pair of shoes per style, and really, I wear one pair of shoes 95+% of the time.

It drives my mother nuts that they’re flip-flops.

230 Kragar  Aug 20, 2014 3:00:46pm

re: #221 Charles Johnson

And oddly enough, the majority of the raving kooks have bios professing their Christianity, American flag backgrounds and avatars with Benghazi twibbons.

“Conservative, Christian, Patriot” in the bio is twitter speak for “I’m a complete moron, just block me.”

231 Wendell Zurkowitz (slave to the waffle light)  Aug 20, 2014 3:02:23pm

re: #230 Kragar

“Conservative, Christian, OUTSPOKEN Patriot” in the bio is twitter speak for “I’m a complete RAVING moron, just block me.”

232 GlutenFreeJesus  Aug 20, 2014 3:02:23pm

re: #93 Shvaughn

“Convicted felon” is merely a way of piling on redundancies to make someone seem worse to the public. It’s like calling someone a “hardened criminal.” It has no legal meaning.

Soft cushions!

Comfy chair!

233 Shvaughn  Aug 20, 2014 3:02:54pm

Oh hey, here’s a good example of what we were just talking about. Someone is fleeing from the police in a car chase, and the police gun him down.

The resolution of that? The city of LA has to fork over $5 million to the guy’s survivors.

Of course, he’s a middle aged white man in a fancy sports car, not a black boy walking down the street.

L.A. to pay $5 million to family of Corvette driver killed by LAPD

The incident began around 9:30 p.m. as a suspected drunk- or reckless-driver pursuit in Cudahy by Los Angeles County sheriff’s deputies. The LAPD took over the chase when it reached city limits. Beaird was driving erratically and at high rates of speed on freeways and surface streets.

With several LAPD cars following his Corvette, Beaird crashed into a Nissan crossing the intersection at Olympic Boulevard and Los Angeles Street, sending the passing car into a fire hydrant.

Beaird’s mangled Corvette spun to a rest on the street corner. He tried to pull away, then got out of the vehicle, staggering around to the sidewalk on the passenger side.

He was surrounded by officers with patrol cars from the Newton Division when the gunfire rang out. He died less than an hour later at California Hospital Medical Center, authorities said.

234 HappyWarrior  Aug 20, 2014 3:03:04pm

re: #230 Kragar

“Conservative, Christian, Patriot” in the bio is twitter speak for “I’m a complete moron, just block me.”

Yeah usually Conservative Christian Patriot is a dead giveaway for “I claim to be a Patriot but I hate nearly everyone in my country who isn’t like me.”

235 GlutenFreeJesus  Aug 20, 2014 3:03:29pm

re: #226 klys

[Embedded content]

Except in reality, a cocktail weenie slicer would be more apt.

236 thedopefishlives  Aug 20, 2014 3:04:08pm

re: #230 Kragar

“Conservative, Christian, Patriot” in the bio is twitter speak for “I’m a complete moron, just block me.”

And this is why I don’t use any of those words to describe myself. For one thing, the “Conservative” part is no longer true, but mainly I know that people will increasingly see me as a drooling moron if I confess to any of those traits. Those brands have been completely tainted by derp.

237 Ace-o-aces  Aug 20, 2014 3:05:10pm

re: #196 Interesting Times

Well, some people say…

OK, at the risk of getting dinged down here, I am a medical professional and I have ER experience. You can have a minor orbital fracture and not realize it at first. However, it’s a common injury and does not require a MMA SUPERPUNCH. And yes, it could happen if you got hit on the eye by a closing car door.

238 Varek Raith  Aug 20, 2014 3:05:41pm

What a complete clusterfuck.
GG, Ferguson PD.

239 Shvaughn  Aug 20, 2014 3:05:55pm

I call myself a Christian because it makes the conservatives so mad when I do.

(And also because, y’know, I’m a Christian and all that.)

240 klys  Aug 20, 2014 3:05:59pm

re: #237 Ace-o-aces

OK, at the risk of getting dinged down here, I am a medical professional and I have ER experience. You can have a minor orbital fracture and not realize it at first. However, it’s a common injury and does not require a MMA SUPERPUNCH. And yes, it could happen if you got hit on the eye by a closing car door.

Just curious, could you detail what the typical treatment for something like that might be?

241 HappyWarrior  Aug 20, 2014 3:06:36pm

re: #236 thedopefishlives

And this is why I don’t use any of those words to describe myself. For one thing, the “Conservative” part is no longer true, but mainly I know that people will increasingly see me as a drooling moron if I confess to any of those traits. Those brands have been completely tainted by derp.

Those types I notice are always surprised when they see a liberal point out their service. I’ve seen Kragar point out to many wingnut idiots on Twitter that he was in the service and they act shocked because you know only conservatives love their country enough to serve. And then there’s their whole idea that a Christian must be homophobic or else he’s not a real Christian.

242 thedopefishlives  Aug 20, 2014 3:07:01pm

re: #239 Shvaughn

I call myself a Christian because it makes the conservatives so mad when I do.

(And also because, y’know, I’m a Christian and all that.)

You’re not a Christian, you’re a hypocrite backslidden heathen apostate LIAR!!!

243 Ace-o-aces  Aug 20, 2014 3:07:21pm

re: #228 thedopefishlives

HURR DURR BUT OBAMA IS TEH COMMANDER IN CHIEF!!!1!1

Actually, I believe the photo that they most often show with this meme is occurring while the band is playing “Hail to the Chief”. Should Obama salute himself?

244 jaunte  Aug 20, 2014 3:07:26pm

This is odd:

twitter.com

245 Shvaughn  Aug 20, 2014 3:07:38pm

re: #237 Ace-o-aces

OK, at the risk of getting dinged down here, I am a medical professional and I have ER experience. You can have a minor orbital fracture and not realize it at first. However, it’s a common injury and does not require a MMA SUPERPUNCH. And yes, it could happen if you got hit on the eye by a closing car door.

I don’t doubt that, I just wonder why, if it’s true, they didn’t defuse most of the anger more than a week ago by saying it outright. Surely they would have known within 24 hours if he had an orbital fracture.

246 Shvaughn  Aug 20, 2014 3:08:57pm

re: #242 thedopefishlives

You’re not a Christian, you’re a hypocrite backslidden heathen apostate LIAR!!!

Exactly! That kind of reaction is music to my apostate ears.

247 thedopefishlives  Aug 20, 2014 3:09:09pm

re: #237 Ace-o-aces

OK, at the risk of getting dinged down here, I am a medical professional and I have ER experience. You can have a minor orbital fracture and not realize it at first. However, it’s a common injury and does not require a >MMA SUPERPUNCH. And yes, it could happen if you got hit on the eye by a closing car door.

You only get downdinged here, in general, for saying things that are stupid. Your statement is true and makes sense, so why would we ding you?

248 GlutenFreeJesus  Aug 20, 2014 3:09:24pm

re: #237 Ace-o-aces

OK, at the risk of getting dinged down here, I am a medical professional and I have ER experience. You can have a minor orbital fracture and not realize it at first. However, it’s a common injury and does not require a MMA SUPERPUNCH. And yes, it could happen if you got hit on the eye by a closing car door.

Agreed. And I think the point really being made is that Dum Jim’s attempt at making this into some kind of life-threatening injury where Wilson had no choice but to (attempt to) kill Brown as he was running away is a far stretch from the truth.

“Nearly knocked unconscious” would indicate a severe blow with severe damage.

249 Pie-onist Overlord  Aug 20, 2014 3:09:39pm

re: #202 Gus

[Embedded content]

Derp.

HURR HURR!!!!!! PROOFS!!!!!

250 Rightwingconspirator  Aug 20, 2014 3:09:48pm

re: #237 Ace-o-aces

OK, at the risk of getting dinged down here, I am a medical professional and I have ER experience. You can have a minor orbital fracture and not realize it at first. However, it’s a common injury and does not require a MMA SUPERPUNCH. And yes, it could happen if you got hit on the eye by a closing car door.

I was thinking adrenaline would facilitate being able to still move and shoot well enough to hit a large person that is not terribly far away. Would you have any input on that? Fight/flight physiology?

251 thedopefishlives  Aug 20, 2014 3:10:02pm

re: #246 Shvaughn

Exactly! That kind of reaction is music to my apostate ears.

[Fistbump.]

We can have a big ol’ apostate party together. The General Assembly can kiss my non-homophobic ass.

252 Shvaughn  Aug 20, 2014 3:10:08pm

re: #244 jaunte

This is odd:

twitter.com

Protecting Joe the Plumber.

253 HappyWarrior  Aug 20, 2014 3:10:32pm

Youmightbeaconservative if you blame Obama for the government’s response to Katrina but also believe FEMA should be eliminated.

254 jaunte  Aug 20, 2014 3:10:50pm

re: #252 Shvaughn

Maybe his PR firm suggested it.

255 stpaulbear  Aug 20, 2014 3:11:30pm

re: #243 Ace-o-aces

Actually, I believe the photo that they most often show with this meme is occurring while the band is playing “Hail to the Chief”. Should Obama salute himself?

No! He could wind up with an orbital fracture.

256 Pie-onist Overlord  Aug 20, 2014 3:11:46pm

re: #216 Slap

This one WORKS. We’ve made it twice, and it’s a winner!

food.com

Uh, there’s only two of us.

257 Varek Raith  Aug 20, 2014 3:11:52pm

re: #247 thedopefishlives

You only get downdinged here, in general, for saying things that are stupid. Your statement is true and makes sense, so why would we ding you?

FALCON MMA SUPERPUNCH!

/Sorry

258 thedopefishlives  Aug 20, 2014 3:12:01pm

re: #255 stpaulbear

No! He could wind up with an orbital fracture.

Alright, you win an Internet for that one. Well played.

259 thedopefishlives  Aug 20, 2014 3:12:36pm

re: #257 Varek Raith

FALCON MMA SUPERPUNCH!

/Sorry

I’m adding the “MMA SUPERPUNCH” to my list of mystical black belt powers. I have no idea what the hell it does, but it sure sounds badass.

260 Ace-o-aces  Aug 20, 2014 3:12:42pm

re: #240 klys

Just curious, could you detail what the typical treatment for something like that might be?

If the injury is not severe and vision is not compromised, it requires application of cold packs to eye for 48hours, oral antibiotics and ophthalmology referral within a week. If there is any evidence of muscle entrapment or disruption of orbit, then they need to be seen my ophthalmology in 24 hours.

261 klys  Aug 20, 2014 3:13:44pm

re: #260 Ace-o-aces

If the injury is not severe and vision is not compromised, it requires application of cold packs to eye for 48hours, oral antibiotics and ophthalmology referral within a week. If there is any evidence of muscle entrapment or disruption of orbit, then they need to be seen my ophthalmology in 24 hours.

Thanks. I always appreciate extra knowledge. :)

262 Varek Raith  Aug 20, 2014 3:15:41pm

re: #260 Ace-o-aces

If the injury is not severe and vision is not compromised, it requires application of cold packs to eye for 48hours, oral antibiotics and ophthalmology referral within a week. If there is any evidence of muscle entrapment or disruption of orbit, then they need to be seen my ophthalmology in 24 hours.

Ouch.

263 Bubblehead II  Aug 20, 2014 3:16:44pm

re: #256 Pie-onist Overlord

Uh, there’s only two of us.

Same Apple Slab Pie for two..

264 Charles Johnson  Aug 20, 2014 3:16:46pm

If you get punched in the eye hard enough to cause an orbital fracture, your eye will swell up and close almost immediately.

265 Ace-o-aces  Aug 20, 2014 3:17:16pm

re: #250 Rightwingconspirator

I was thinking adrenaline would facilitate being able to still move and shoot well enough to hit a large person that is not terribly far away. Would you have any input on that? Fight/flight physiology?

Yeah, it can mask pain. On the other hand, I’ve treated many cops who have been injured in fights with suspects and none of them ever felt the need to shoot.

266 Jenner7  Aug 20, 2014 3:17:45pm
267 wrenchwench  Aug 20, 2014 3:18:15pm

I like his simple approach.

268 Charles Johnson  Aug 20, 2014 3:19:12pm

The latest leak from Ferguson PD says Wilson was “nearly beaten unconscious.” That’s not a minor injury, folks. And it’s not something you just get up from and start shooting within seconds, no matter how much adrenaline you might have.

The story stinks.

269 HappyWarrior  Aug 20, 2014 3:19:53pm

re: #266 Jenner7

[Embedded content]

In which Jim Hoft stretches his fingers and goes “mission accomplished” because phase 2 will be raising a shit storm if the Feds take on the case.

270 HappyWarrior  Aug 20, 2014 3:20:35pm

re: #268 Charles Johnson

The latest leak from Ferguson PD says Wilson was “nearly beaten unconscious.” That’s not a minor injury, folks. And it’s not something you just get up from and start shooting within seconds, no matter how much adrenaline you might have.

The story stinks.

Yeah I don’t believe it for a second. Doesn’t help that they’re leaking to some less than reputable characters too.

271 Ace-o-aces  Aug 20, 2014 3:20:54pm

re: #264 Charles Johnson

If you get punched in the eye hard enough to cause an orbital fracture, your eye will swell up and close almost immediately.

It would take a few minutes, and if it was a small fracture, the swelling might not be that bad.

272 GlutenFreeJesus  Aug 20, 2014 3:21:10pm

re: #266 Jenner7

[Embedded content]

Yup. Institutionalized bullying. It’s on the books to make it impossible to convict a cop of any wrongdoing.

273 Schadenboner  Aug 20, 2014 3:21:11pm

re: #268 Charles Johnson

The latest leak from Ferguson PD says Wilson was “nearly beaten unconscious.” That’s not a minor injury, folks. And it’s not something you just get up from and start shooting, no matter how much adrenaline you might have.

The story stinks.

SECOND SHOOTER!

CHECK THE GRASSY KNOLL! CHECK THE GRASSY KNOLL!

274 GlutenFreeJesus  Aug 20, 2014 3:21:55pm

re: #271 Ace-o-aces

It would take a few minutes, and if it was a small fracture, the swelling might not be that bad.

But that’s not what we are hearing from the RWNJ. Wilson was fending for his life. He was almost knocked unconscious! He was BULLRUSHED!

275 thedopefishlives  Aug 20, 2014 3:22:06pm

re: #268 Charles Johnson

The latest leak from Ferguson PD says Wilson was “nearly beaten unconscious.” That’s not a minor injury, folks. And it’s not something you just get up from and start shooting, no matter how much adrenaline you might have.

The story stinks.

Do they have any video of this? Any proof other than their say-so? No? Okay then, BULLSHIT!

276 Ace-o-aces  Aug 20, 2014 3:22:47pm

re: #268 Charles Johnson

The latest leak from Ferguson PD says Wilson was “nearly beaten unconscious.” That’s not a minor injury, folks. And it’s not something you just get up from and start shooting within seconds, no matter how much adrenaline you might have.

Now that is true.

277 Charles Johnson  Aug 20, 2014 3:23:21pm

re: #271 Ace-o-aces

It would take a few minutes, and if it was a small fracture, the swelling might not be that bad.

That’s not the story though. The latest leak to Fox News describes it as a savage beating that nearly rendered him unconscious, not a minor injury that he wouldn’t even notice.

278 GlutenFreeJesus  Aug 20, 2014 3:23:30pm

re: #226 klys

[Embedded content]

Someone send this to the Gateway Pundit office *his mommy’s basement*.

279 Varek Raith  Aug 20, 2014 3:23:36pm

There not even trying to aim for the realm of plausibility.

280 Shvaughn  Aug 20, 2014 3:24:05pm

re: #268 Charles Johnson

The latest leak from Ferguson PD says Wilson was “nearly beaten unconscious.” That’s not a minor injury, folks. And it’s not something you just get up from and start shooting within seconds, no matter how much adrenaline you might have.

Adrenaline is MAGIC!

281 GlutenFreeJesus  Aug 20, 2014 3:24:35pm

I have said before, and it’s sad that I see them actually doing this…

Hey Darren. We’re in really deep shit covering for your ass. Come on. Take one for the team. *POW*

282 abolitionist  Aug 20, 2014 3:25:07pm

re: #203 Shvaughn

Ah so basically we have people here arguing that under the law a felon is anyone the police think is a felon and thus can be executed at will for fleeing.

Nice to know.

Broad and vague sloppy use of the term felon in the written laws that supposedly govern what police should and should not do —that’s part of the problem.

283 lawhawk  Aug 20, 2014 3:25:25pm

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. The Ferguson PD is leaking claims to Hoft and others with extraordinary claims, but no proof other than their say so.

And those claims directly contradict what we already know or what the Ferguson PD or St. Louis County PD have stated.

So, who ever is leaking is lying or exaggerating to those right wingers, including Hoft.

284 Ace-o-aces  Aug 20, 2014 3:25:33pm

re: #277 Charles Johnson

That’s not the story though. The latest leak to Fox News describes it as a savage beating that nearly rendered him unconscious, not a minor injury that he wouldn’t even notice.

I’m going to go out on a limb here and say they’re lying…..

285 stpaulbear  Aug 20, 2014 3:26:42pm

re: #271 Ace-o-aces

It would take a few minutes, and if it was a small fracture, the swelling might not be that bad.

How would a small fracture affect vision? Would it be unwise for a person with a small fracture be firing a gun? (Not trying to sound antagonistic. I know how I feel when something gets in my eye. I just stop doing stuff that requires eyesight until the problem goes away)

286 Charles Johnson  Aug 20, 2014 3:26:49pm
287 Kragar  Aug 20, 2014 3:27:26pm

A Republican city councilman in Missouri apologized this week for posting racist messages about President Obama on Facebook, citing his own strong engagement with the Republican Party as the reason behind his actions.
…
KFVS reported that Tinsley’s justification for posting the photos upset fellow Republicans and prompted another apology.

“I want people to know that I am very remorseful for it,” Tinsley told KFVS. “That it was inappropriate. I believe I got caught up in an emotional moment of sharing jokes and at the time it seemed funny but today it’s, it’s, it’s very serious and it’s not funny at all. … That anything that I have said, that I referred to the activity because I was a Republican, that is not true. It’s not an excuse, ” Tinsley said.

288 BongCrodny  Aug 20, 2014 3:31:34pm

re: #268 Charles Johnson

The latest leak from Ferguson PD says Wilson was “nearly beaten unconscious.” That’s not a minor injury, folks. And it’s not something you just get up from and start shooting within seconds, no matter how much adrenaline you might have.

The story stinks.

You’d think they could also “leak” the medical records associated with such a beating.

Maybe I’m just a big ol’ weenie, but “beaten nearly unconscious” would seem to me to at the very least necessitate an outpatient visit to a local hospital, if not an overnight stay.

“Beaten nearly unconscious” would *not* indicate “I’ll just pop a couple of Advil and I’ll be okay in the morning.”

289 ausador  Aug 20, 2014 3:32:03pm

re: #286 Charles Johnson

Charles Johnson @Green_Footballs

Quiet yet turbulent. smh RT @AP Ferguson cop who shot unarmed 18-year-old has lived quiet & sometimes turbulent life apne.ws
6:26 PM - 20 Aug 2014

Dateline: Ferguson, MO. A peaceful yet threatening town situated in a upscale but destitute area of this buccolic and urbanized state….

/

290 GlutenFreeJesus  Aug 20, 2014 3:32:55pm

re: #283 lawhawk

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. The Ferguson PD is leaking claims to Hoft and others with extraordinary claims, but no proof other than their say so.

And those claims directly contradict what we already know or what the Ferguson PD or St. Louis County PD have stated.

So, who ever is leaking is lying or exaggerating to those right wingers, including Hoft.

FALSE FLAG!!!!!!!!!

291 GlutenFreeJesus  Aug 20, 2014 3:34:19pm

re: #266 Jenner7

[Embedded content]

If the Feds take over, I am assuming Missouri law would no longer apply?

292 klys  Aug 20, 2014 3:35:42pm

re: #288 BongCrodny

You’d think they could also “leak” the medical records associated with such a beating.

Maybe I’m just a big ol’ weenie, but “beaten nearly unconscious” would seem to me to at the very least necessitate an outpatient visit to a local hospital, if not an overnight stay.

“Beaten nearly unconscious” would *not* indicate “I’ll just pop a couple of Advil and I’ll be okay in the morning.”

Hell, forget the medical records, why haven’t we seen a photograph of the swelling/bruises?

293 becominginvisible  Aug 20, 2014 3:35:49pm

re: #8 lawhawk

It is probably in this thread and I haven’t caught up yet, according to NBC news the officer in the video has been suspended.

Edit: sorry I’m so slow this happened hours ago.

294 Shvaughn  Aug 20, 2014 3:35:57pm

If the killing of Michael Brown was so easily justifiable with facts that the cops would have known within hours of his death, one has to wonder why the police chose to hide that information for a week and a half and engage in militarized tactics against peaceful protesters instead of presenting the justifications.

They sure ain’t acting like they’re the good guys here.

295 stpaulbear  Aug 20, 2014 3:36:12pm

re: #291 GlutenFreeJesus

If the Feds take over, I am assuming Missouri law would no longer apply?

You’d first have to assume that ‘law’ exists in Missouri.

296 Rightwingconspirator  Aug 20, 2014 3:36:59pm

re: #178 klys

Going back to your original statement, I think you could have gotten the discussion you wanted if you had replaced the word felon with the word suspect.

Maybe you were looking to discuss the general concept but using such specific descriptions relevant to the case at hand and then describing the person in the role of Michael Brown - who had no criminal record - as a “felon” (which is a term typically applied to those convicted of a crime) was then somewhat distracting to what you wanted to discuss.

I don’t think it was anything other than poor choice in words but particularly in the context of the right-wing smear machine going in full force against Michael Brown, I think the pushback from your fellow Lizards is reasonable.

I guess I needed even stronger caveats. Ah well happens in emotional issues.

;-)

297 Shvaughn  Aug 20, 2014 3:37:13pm

re: #291 GlutenFreeJesus

If the Feds take over, I am assuming Missouri law would no longer apply?

No. They can charge him with civil rights violations and that’s probably about it.

298 Kragar  Aug 20, 2014 3:38:03pm
299 EPR-radar  Aug 20, 2014 3:38:38pm

re: #266 Jenner7

Thanks for the link. It’s very important.

If it really is true that the prosecution of Officer Wilson would need to disprove a self-defense story “beyond a reasonable doubt” under MO state law, then a conviction will be impossible.

Edited to add the key paragraphs:

In other states, claims of self-defense need to be proven as more likely than not, or in legal speak, to a “preponderance of the evidence.” It’s still the state’s obligation to prove “beyond a reasonable doubt” that the defendant actually killed the victim. But once that’s established, the prosecution doesn’t also have to prove “beyond a reasonable doubt” that the killing wasn’t justified. That’s because justifications —- like self-defense —- require the accused to make an active case, called an “affirmative defense” that the circumstances were exceptional. The logic here is simple: As a rule, homicide is a crime and justification is reserved for extraordinary cases. Once the state has proven that a defendant did in fact kill someone, it should be the accused’s obligation to prove his or her actions were justified.

Not in Missouri. Instead, as long as there is a modicum of evidence and reasonable plausibility in support of a self-defense claim, a court must accept the claim and acquit the accused. The prosecution must not only prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant committed the crime, but also disprove a defendant’s claim of self-defense to the same high standard. Under Missouri law, all a citizen claiming self-defense or a police officer claiming to have fired while pursuing a dangerous criminal need do is “inject the issue of justification.” In other words, he only needs to produce some evidence (his own testimony counts) supporting the claim. Once he does so, “any reasonable doubt on the issue requires a finding for the defendant.” In Missouri, the burden doesn’t budge an inch, even after we know that the defendant has killed the victim. It doesn’t matter that there is certainty that Darren Wilson shot Michael Brown. As long as there is still the slightest possibility that Wilson acted in his own defense, Missouri law favors Wilson.

300 Charles Johnson  Aug 20, 2014 3:38:56pm
301 klys  Aug 20, 2014 3:42:58pm

I’m pretty sure there is no way the federal government can take over the murder investigation. I’m sorry. I know that a lot of people would like to see that happen because of the investigating agencies involved along with the prosecutor, but the rules on where the federal government can prosecute murder are pretty clear.

Yes, it’s Wikipedia, but:

If the victim is a federal official, an ambassador, consul or other foreign official under the protection of the United States, or if the crime took place on federal property or involved crossing state lines, or in a manner that substantially affects interstate commerce or national security, then the federal government also has jurisdiction.

The federal government’s investigation right now is a civil rights investigation, which could still result in the death penalty if they find that the actions of Darren Wilson deprived Michael Brown of his civil rights with the result of death.

Title 18, U.S.C., Section 242
Deprivation of Rights Under Color of Law
This statute makes it a crime for any person acting under color of law, statute, ordinance, regulation, or custom to willfully deprive or cause to be deprived from any person those rights, privileges, or immunities secured or protected by the Constitution and laws of the U.S.

This law further prohibits a person acting under color of law, statute, ordinance, regulation or custom to willfully subject or cause to be subjected any person to different punishments, pains, or penalties, than those prescribed for punishment of citizens on account of such person being an alien or by reason of his/her color or race.

Acts under “color of any law” include acts not only done by federal, state, or local officials within the bounds or limits of their lawful authority, but also acts done without and beyond the bounds of their lawful authority; provided that, in order for unlawful acts of any official to be done under “color of any law,” the unlawful acts must be done while such official is purporting or pretending to act in the performance of his/her official duties. This definition includes, in addition to law enforcement officials, individuals such as Mayors, Council persons, Judges, Nursing Home Proprietors, Security Guards, etc., persons who are bound by laws, statutes ordinances, or customs.

Punishment varies from a fine or imprisonment of up to one year, or both, and if bodily injury results or if such acts include the use, attempted use, or threatened use of a dangerous weapon, explosives, or fire shall be fined or imprisoned up to ten years or both, and if death results, or if such acts include kidnapping or an attempt to kidnap, aggravated sexual abuse or an attempt to commit aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to kill, shall be fined under this title, or imprisoned for any term of years or for life, or both, or may be sentenced to death

302 Charles Johnson  Aug 20, 2014 3:43:55pm

If Wilson gets off scot free, I don’t even want to think about what the reaction might be, and not just in Missouri.

303 abolitionist  Aug 20, 2014 3:44:37pm

re: #300 Charles Johnson

[Embedded content]

That’s a brilliant but clearly not-quite-proper use of an autopsy diagram.

304 gwangung  Aug 20, 2014 3:45:23pm

re: #302 Charles Johnson

If Wilson gets off scot free, I don’t even want to think about what the reaction might be, and not just in Missouri.

We may have to start thinking about that…

305 Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 20, 2014 3:46:54pm

re: #219 Charles Johnson

If it makes you feel better, I just dropped a couple hundred dollars over at Amazon as an LGF Associate, so there’s that.

306 Charles Johnson  Aug 20, 2014 3:47:33pm

re: #305 Backwoods_Sleuth

If it makes you feel better, I just dropped a couple hundred dollars over at Amazon as an LGF Associate, so there’s that.

Arigato gozai masu!

307 EPR-radar  Aug 20, 2014 3:48:02pm

re: #302 Charles Johnson

If Wilson gets off scot free, I don’t even want to think about what the reaction might be, and not just in Missouri.

It’s easy enough to predict. Cities will burn. The only questions would be how many and for how long.

308 wrenchwench  Aug 20, 2014 3:49:28pm

re: #301 klys

Title 18, U.S.C., Section 242
Deprivation of Rights Under Color of Law

Wilson was operating under a different section. Deprivation of Rights Under Law of Color.

309 Teukka  Aug 20, 2014 3:50:44pm

re: #307 EPR-radar

It’s easy enough to predict. Cities will burn. The only question would how many and for how long.

That scenario was raised a couple of threads back, I think the consensus was that it would make the Rodney King riots look like a 5 second tiff between toddlers in a sandbox…

310 klys  Aug 20, 2014 3:50:56pm

re: #308 wrenchwench

Wilson was operating under a different section. Deprivation of Rights Under Law of Color.

Haha, I know, right?

311 ObserverArt  Aug 20, 2014 3:51:56pm

General question about officer Wilson. Anyone know his physical height and weight? I do not think I’ve seen that mentioned anywhere.

312 darthstar  Aug 20, 2014 3:53:25pm

re: #268 Charles Johnson

The latest leak from Ferguson PD says Wilson was “nearly beaten unconscious.” That’s not a minor injury, folks. And it’s not something you just get up from and start shooting within seconds, no matter how much adrenaline you might have.

The story stinks.

I hope that was in reference to his debriefing after the incident.

I like to imagine that they’re inflicting different wounds upon him looking for one that will be convincing to the public.

“No…too much bleeding from behind the ears…sew him up.”
“Nah…there are pictures of his face out there without a broken nose.”

313 7-y (Expectation of Great Things in Due Course)  Aug 20, 2014 3:53:29pm

re: #53 Kragar

I wouldn’t be surprised if Wilson hit himself in the face with the door trying to get out of the car.

My #1 hypothesis from the get-go; including the instant rage he may have felt from the pain.

And, if he had been threatening Brown with his unholstered weapon, which accidentally went off, then he would want to completely eliminate whatever story Brown might have to tell is he were alive.

314 EPR-radar  Aug 20, 2014 3:53:47pm

re: #301 klys

Interesting. It isn’t too surprising that the Feds have tools in the toolbox that would be suitable for playing hardball here.

Of course, that also means a plea of helplessness from the Feds cannot be accepted easily.

315 Jocko's Rocket Ship  Aug 20, 2014 3:53:58pm

The Wilson injury business reminds me of the “Bloody Christmas” scene in LA Confidential.

Young officer: The six spics, er, Mexicans that assaulted Brown and Helenowski. They’re downstairs.

Jack: I heard Helenowski lost six pints of blood and Brown’s in a coma.

Officer Hexely: I took the report, they’re home with bruises and muscle pulls.

(moments later, in room where cops are gathered for Christmas party)

Intoxicated cop: Hear what those taco vendors did to Helenowsk and Brown? Helenowski lost and eye and they’re reading Brown his last rights.

(moments later a mob of drunk cops run downstairs and assault the Mexican suspects.)

316 GlutenFreeJesus  Aug 20, 2014 3:54:30pm

re: #297 Shvaughn

No. They can charge him with civil rights violations and that’s probably about it.

As I suspected. Sigh.

317 darthstar  Aug 20, 2014 3:54:45pm

re: #302 Charles Johnson

If Wilson gets off scot free, I don’t even want to think about what the reaction might be, and not just in Missouri.

I’m surprised he hasn’t hired George Zimmerman for advice on how to milk the situation for money.

318 GlutenFreeJesus  Aug 20, 2014 3:55:10pm

re: #312 darthstar

I hope that was in reference to his debriefing after the incident.

I like to imagine that they’re inflicting different wounds upon him looking for one that will be convincing to the public.

“No…too much bleeding from behind the ears…sew him up.”
“Nah…there are pictures of his face out there without a broken nose.”

Crap… I said left eye, not right!

319 thedopefishlives  Aug 20, 2014 3:55:40pm

re: #313 7-y (Expectation of Great Things in Due Course)

My #1 hypothesis from the get-go; including the instant rage he may have felt from the pain.

And, if he had been threatening Brown with his unholstered weapon, which accidentally went off, then he would want to completely eliminate whatever story Brown might have to tell is he were alive.

Because being careless with his gun is such a terrible thing compared to, you know, emptying a whole clip into an innocent man.

320 DodgerFan1988  Aug 20, 2014 3:56:10pm

According to this conservative writer the real victims of racism are whites. Seriously. pjmedia.com

321 Pie-onist Overlord  Aug 20, 2014 3:56:14pm

re: #305 Backwoods_Sleuth

If it makes you feel better, I just dropped a couple hundred dollars over at Amazon as an LGF Associate, so there’s that.

That reminds me, I have to buy my grandson’s Bar Mitzvah present. He wants an iPad mini.

322 klys  Aug 20, 2014 3:56:27pm

re: #314 EPR-radar

Interesting. It isn’t too surprising that the Feds have tools in the toolbox that would be suitable for playing hardball here.

Of course, that also means a plea of helplessness from the Feds cannot be accepted easily.

I have seen discussed elsewhere (and I don’t have the link handy or I would provide - this was a few days ago) the rates on which they prosecute cases like these and it is not high. But the toolkit does allow for appropriate action even if they cannot prosecute for murder.

323 Ace-o-aces  Aug 20, 2014 3:57:00pm

re: #285 stpaulbear

How would a small fracture affect vision?

It might not, at least for a few minutes until the swelling started.

324 EPR-radar  Aug 20, 2014 3:57:46pm

re: #322 klys

I have seen discussed elsewhere (and I don’t have the link handy or I would provide - this was a few days ago) the rates on which they prosecute cases like these and it is not high. But the toolkit does allow for appropriate action even if they cannot prosecute for murder.

There must be precedent from the civil rights era where Federal action was the only recourse in the face of totally corrupt/compromised state and local officials.

325 Decatur Deb  Aug 20, 2014 3:59:10pm

re: #324 EPR-radar

There must be precedent from the civil rights era where Federal action was the only recourse in the face of totally corrupt/compromised state and local officials.

Nope, not since Reconstruction. That’s how Jim Crow became king.

326 Khal Wimpo  Aug 20, 2014 3:59:30pm

re: #302 Charles Johnson

If Wilson gets off scot free, I don’t even want to think about what the reaction might be, and not just in Missouri.

Yeah, that’s been running through my mind recently as well. I was in LA for the Rodney King riots in ‘92. Don’t need to go through that again.

327 Teukka  Aug 20, 2014 3:59:48pm

re: #323 Ace-o-aces

It might not, at least for a few minutes until the swelling started.

Even a small fracture would cause enough pain within minutes to floor you. I once smashed the joint surface of a finger. It began hurting so bad I almost fainted within 2-3 min. And I’m a very pain tolerant person.

328 klys  Aug 20, 2014 4:00:38pm

re: #324 EPR-radar

There must be precedent from the civil rights era where Federal action was the only recourse in the face of totally corrupt/compromised state and local officials.

The most recent high profile indictment I can think of was the trial for the officers in the Rodney King beating. There has been a civil rights probe in the Trayvon Martin case (some articles seem to suggest it is still ongoing) but no trial there.

329 BeachDem  Aug 20, 2014 4:01:03pm

re: #244 jaunte

This is odd:

[Embedded image]

twitter.com

Nobody seems to have addressed this yet, and I wonder who hired them and why. (And why they don’t know how to spell Ferguson)
Do you think they were hired to protect Eric Holder?

They look like a mercenary group similar to Blackwater, so what exactly will they be doing there? Anybody find any more about this?

330 Pie-onist Overlord  Aug 20, 2014 4:01:33pm

re: #320 DodgerFan1988

According to this conservative writer the real victims of racism arr whites. Seriously. pjmedia.com

What if the rioters were white?

ANY QUESTIONS?

331 wrenchwench  Aug 20, 2014 4:02:15pm

re: #329 BeachDem

Do you think they were hired to protect Eric Holder?

Wouldn’t he get Secret Service protection? I would hope so.

332 darthstar  Aug 20, 2014 4:03:15pm

re: #330 Pie-onist Overlord

What if the rioters were white?

Then the GOP would be campaigning on their behalf. Issa would subpoena the president…again. McCain would have his own Sunday talk show.

333 Bubblehead II  Aug 20, 2014 4:04:55pm

re: #330 Pie-onist Overlord

What if the rioters were white?

[Embedded content]

ANY QUESTIONS?

BTW, these pics remind me. Have we seen any pics of the alleged 24 police cars destroyed in the Ferguson riots yet?

334 Kid A  Aug 20, 2014 4:04:59pm

Dim is “reporting” a BREAKING STORY: St. Louis school is on LOCKDOWN-HIGH ALERT due to threats connected to Ferguson. Not a single link via google to be found, by the way.

335 blueraven  Aug 20, 2014 4:05:05pm

re: #301 klys

I’m pretty sure there is no way the federal government can take over the murder investigation. I’m sorry. I know that a lot of people would like to see that happen because of the investigating agencies involved along with the prosecutor, but the rules on where the federal government can prosecute murder are pretty clear.

Yes, it’s Wikipedia, but:

The federal government’s investigation right now is a civil rights investigation, which could still result in the death penalty if they find that the actions of Darren Wilson deprived Michael Brown of his civil rights with the result of death.

The Feds did prosecute in the Rodney King case after the 4 police officers had been acquitted in CA… resulting in 2 of the 4 found guilty and imprisoned, but as you say it was for a civil rights violation.

en.wikipedia.org

336 Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 20, 2014 4:05:21pm

re: #255 stpaulbear

No! He could wind up with an orbital fracture.

That would have been particularly true about Gerald Ford…

337 GlutenFreeJesus  Aug 20, 2014 4:06:05pm

re: #298 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Attempted rescue of hostages:

Obama’s fault.

vs.

Killing of OBL:

Obama had nothing to do with it. Coward hiding in the Situation Room.

338 A Mom Anon  Aug 20, 2014 4:07:32pm

re: #334 Kid A

School was postponed for a week because of all this crap. So, once again racist asshole is full of racist shit. Teachers were doing stuff for the younger kids in the local libraries to help them get their minds off all the crap in their town this week. Teachers also were out in groups cleaning up trash and stuff.

(edited to add)Also, even if there was school today, it’s freaking after 6 pm there.

339 darthstar  Aug 20, 2014 4:07:46pm
340 EPR-radar  Aug 20, 2014 4:08:18pm

re: #337 GlutenFreeJesus

Attempted rescue of hostages:

Obama’s fault.

vs.

Killing of OBL:

Obama had nothing to do with it. Coward hiding in the Situation Room.

Of course, if the OBL raid had failed messily, we would presently have a GOP president, even if Perry, Cain or some other total clown had won the 2012 GOP primary.

341 ninja cat  Aug 20, 2014 4:11:03pm

Correction: August 20, 2014
An Op-Ed essay on Monday described bald eagles and ospreys incorrectly. They eat fish, and their poop is white; they do not eat berries and excrete purple feces. (Other birds, like American robins, Eurasian starlings and cedar waxwings, do.)

It’s a nice story, but I’m glad they’ve cleared this up.

342 SteveMcGazi  Aug 20, 2014 4:12:26pm

re: #339 darthstar

[Embedded content]

Typed by somebody old enough to use “Ma.”
(Edit) and “Mo.”

343 darthstar  Aug 20, 2014 4:12:52pm

Teleportation

cnet.com

Physicists at the Kavli Institute of Nanoscience, part of the Delft University of Technology in the Netherlands, report that they sent quantum data concerning the spin state of an electron to another electron about 10 feet away. Quantum teleportation has been recorded in the past, but the results in this study have an unprecedented replication rate of 100 percent at the current distance, the team said.

Soon I will have zero commute time to the office…even in traffic. Though in heavy traffic I might show up with breasts while some poor woman gets a beer gut. But I won’t complain…at least not until I’m done admiring myself.

344 SteveMcGazi  Aug 20, 2014 4:13:51pm

re: #343 darthstar

Teleportation

cnet.com

Soon I will have zero commute time to the office…even in traffic. Though in heavy traffic I might show up with breasts while some poor woman gets a beer gut. But I won’t complain…at least not until I’m done admiring myself.

No, I think you’ll just get static electricity shocks in zero time.

345 EPR-radar  Aug 20, 2014 4:14:45pm

re: #325 Decatur Deb

Nope, not since Reconstruction. That’s how Jim Crow became king.

But wasn’t Jim Crow ended in large part by Federal intervention? The states would not have reformed in the 1950s and 1960s out of the goodness of their hearts.

346 OhNoZombies!  Aug 20, 2014 4:14:54pm

so this happened in Cleveland recently…

FTA:
“Let’s be clear what happened here,” McGinty said about the case. “(Russell) was fully stopped. Escape was no longer even a remote possibility. The flight was over. The public was no longer in danger because the car was surrounded by police cars and 23 police officers in a schoolyard safely removed from pedestrians and traffic.

347 WhatEVs  Aug 20, 2014 4:16:15pm

Why was this guy shot 12 times? This is the first I’m seeing this. He wasn’t rushing the cops, knife or not.

348 BeachDem  Aug 20, 2014 4:17:31pm

re: #331 wrenchwench

Wouldn’t he get Secret Service protection? I would hope so.

I would think so. But their tweet says “escort detail augment for individual.” They sound kinda scary to me.

349 Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 20, 2014 4:18:40pm

re: #323 Ace-o-aces

It might not, at least for a few minutes until the swelling started.

Then it’s somewhat possible since, according to the event report that was released, the shooting took less than 3 minutes from first contact until the second officer arrived (and Michael Brown was already dead).

350 klys  Aug 20, 2014 4:18:43pm

re: #348 BeachDem

I would think so. But their tweet says “escort detail augment for individual.” They sound kinda scary to me.

My cynical side says law enforcement has decided they can’t handle protection for Wilson, who is said to be in the Greater St. Louis area.

351 becominginvisible  Aug 20, 2014 4:19:30pm

Just to ramble on a bit. If Wilson’s weapon was fired in the vehicle his hearing would be really messed up for some time. A woman in the apartment area did tell the press the day of the shooting that a bullet went through her window into her apartment and the police came and dug it out. He could have emptied the magazine and only hit with 1 or 2 shots and only the casings may or may not be recovered. I’m in the camp that thinks if Wilson was injured he would have been treated at least at the scene and would have been seen being looked at by EMS. Even if it was a slight injury the other officers talking to him would have noticed it and had him checked out. I, in my bias, only see Wilson walking around in the video shot right after the shooting waving his hands around as he walks up to and talks to another officer. I assumed he was whining because he forgot to bring a throwaway gun with him and whattheshit was he going to do now, did anyone have a throwaway he could use.

352 Pie-onist Overlord  Aug 20, 2014 4:20:30pm

Message to all Teh Juice in Brooklyn: FUCK YOU

353 Pie-onist Overlord  Aug 20, 2014 4:21:57pm

re: #339 darthstar

[Embedded content]

Was that letter stuck in the Post Office for 50 years?

354 Pie-onist Overlord  Aug 20, 2014 4:24:12pm

*LIGHTS DESK ON FIRE*
*FLINGS IT OUT THE WINDOW*

355 BeachDem  Aug 20, 2014 4:24:33pm

re: #350 klys

My cynical side says law enforcement has decided they can’t handle protection for Wilson, who is said to be in the Greater St. Louis area.

Odd that they would announce that on Twitter though, don’t you think? Obviously they want somebody to know they’re going to be there.

356 The Great Eye  Aug 20, 2014 4:24:40pm

re: #268 Charles Johnson

The latest leak from Ferguson PD says Wilson was “nearly beaten unconscious.” That’s not a minor injury, folks. And it’s not something you just get up from and start shooting within seconds, no matter how much adrenaline you might have.

The story stinks.

How much adrenaline can you have going if you just drove up to some kids and when you open your car door one of them slams it shut on you and then lands a punch that crushes your orbital bone? To me that sounds like a sucker punch and the cop should be laid out and helpless. Not so pumped up on adrenaline that he’s able to get up and start shooting. These people are just making shit up and hoping the people that don’t want to think a cop would do something this evil will accept their story.

357 ausador  Aug 20, 2014 4:25:03pm

re: #329 BeachDem

Nobody seems to have addressed this yet, and I wonder who hired them and why. (And why they don’t know how to spell Ferguson)
Do you think they were hired to protect Eric Holder?

They look like a mercenary group similar to Blackwater, so what exactly will they be doing there? Anybody find any more about this?

Their tweet said they are going there to augment someones escort detail, so my guess would be A.G. Holder.

358 klys  Aug 20, 2014 4:27:20pm

re: #355 BeachDem

Odd that they would announce that on Twitter though, don’t you think? Obviously they want somebody to know they’re going to be there.

Their RTs this week have included this:

Given that the RWNJ noise machine has come down firmly on the side of Officer Wilson, I wouldn’t be surprised for this to be a sly wink-wink-nudge-nudge statement.

359 BeachDem  Aug 20, 2014 4:27:29pm

re: #353 Pie-onist Overlord

Was that letter stuck in the Post Office for 50 years?

Actually, I was amazed at how fast it was delivered—who says the USPS doesn’t do a good job!

360 klys  Aug 20, 2014 4:28:25pm

re: #358 klys

Their RTs this week have included this:

[Embedded content]

Given that the RWNJ noise machine has come down firmly on the side of Officer Wilson, I wouldn’t be surprised for this to be a sly wink-wink-nudge-nudge statement.

On the flip side, they just tweeted:

If Holder just left then that’s highly suggestive.

361 becominginvisible  Aug 20, 2014 4:29:32pm

re: #333 Bubblehead II

Fox2now has a picture of 2 police cars spray painted. I’d try to link but my browser is being fussy.

362 wrenchwench  Aug 20, 2014 4:31:21pm

re: #346 OhNoZombies!

so this happened in Cleveland recently…

FTA:
“Let’s be clear what happened here,” McGinty said about the case. “(Russell) was fully stopped. Escape was no longer even a remote possibility. The flight was over. The public was no longer in danger because the car was surrounded by police cars and 23 police officers in a schoolyard safely removed from pedestrians and traffic.

Wow. The part just before your excerpt:

On Friday, McGinty said that after officers fired more than 100 shots at the car, Brelo started shooting again and fired at least 15 shots, including fatal ones, downward through the windshield into the victims at close range as he stood on the hood of Russell’s car.

“This was now a stop-and-shoot, no longer a chase-and-shoot,” McGinty said. “The law does not allow for a stop-and-shoot.”

McGinty cited the U.S. Supreme Court ruling this week involving a shooting by police in Tennessee that found officers had a right to use excessive force during a police chase that endangers the lives of residents.

He said the high court’s opinion makes clear that officers cannot initiate another round of shots after the initial shots end the threat of flight.

363 Jenner7  Aug 20, 2014 4:33:09pm

US tried to rescue Foley and others….

nytimes.com

364 ausador  Aug 20, 2014 4:33:54pm

Anyone else waiting for James O’keefe to show up amongst the protestors with blackface and an afro wig on?

///

365 Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 20, 2014 4:34:14pm

re: #361 becominginvisible

Fox2now has a picture of 2 police cars spray painted. I’d try to link but my browser is being fussy.

Saw that earlier today. Spray painted car(s) were in St. Louis, not Ferguson.

366 BeachDem  Aug 20, 2014 4:35:12pm

re: #360 klys

So it was a 12-hour or so tour—not sure if Holder has left Ferguson, but if so, that must be it. Still seems very odd to me that they would publicize it like that.

367 TedStriker  Aug 20, 2014 4:35:44pm

re: #277 Charles Johnson

That’s not the story though. The latest leak to Fox News describes it as a savage beating that nearly rendered him unconscious, not a minor injury that he wouldn’t even notice.

“Hey, if George Zimmerman’s cover story worked once, it oughta work again!”

368 Skip Intro  Aug 20, 2014 4:36:43pm

re: #268 Charles Johnson

The latest leak from Ferguson PD says Wilson was “nearly beaten unconscious.” That’s not a minor injury, folks. And it’s not something you just get up from and start shooting within seconds, no matter how much adrenaline you might have.

The story stinks.

The wondrous thing about all of these anonymous leaks is that they can be tracked back to no one, and when they turn out to be false the desired damage will have been done and the PD can deny having any part in them.

This is why you hire PR firms.

369 blueraven  Aug 20, 2014 4:36:59pm

re: #347 WhatEVs

Why was this guy shot 12 times? This is the first I’m seeing this. He wasn’t rushing the cops, knife or not.

[Embedded content]

Oh My God…that is just awful!
These policemen just shoot first, ask questions later.

370 thedopefishlives  Aug 20, 2014 4:37:37pm

re: #366 BeachDem

So it was a 12-hour or so tour—not sure if Holder has left Ferguson, but if so, that must be it. Still seems very odd to me that they would publicize it like that.

Ugh. The first thing that popped into my head when I read this was the Gilligan’s Island theme song. I don’t know why.

371 BeachDem  Aug 20, 2014 4:38:11pm

re: #364 ausador

Anyone else waiting for James O’keefe to show up amongst the protestors with blackface and an afro wig on?

///

Maybe ChuckyC can dye his beard and the two of them can go together. They seem so perfectly matched.

372 Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 20, 2014 4:39:02pm
373 Kid A  Aug 20, 2014 4:39:20pm

I saw someone today ask ChuckyC if he came from a Hasbro factory.

374 Kid A  Aug 20, 2014 4:40:40pm

And ChuckyC is now begging for money to hire a lawyer to fund his FOIA request to get Brown’s juvi records opened. Jesus, does this guy have no shame AND no job or what?

375 blueraven  Aug 20, 2014 4:41:22pm

re: #369 blueraven

Oh My God…that is just awful!
These policemen just shoot first, ask questions later.

I fear once that video goes viral, and I suspect it will, there will be hell on the streets.

376 TedStriker  Aug 20, 2014 4:41:37pm

re: #294 Shvaughn

If the killing of Michael Brown was so easily justifiable with facts that the cops would have known within hours of his death, one has to wonder why the police chose to hide that information for a week and a half and engage in militarized tactics against peaceful protesters instead of presenting the justifications.

They sure ain’t acting like they’re the good guys here.

Not to mention guarding Wilson around the clock at a safehouse in an undisclosed location, somewhere in the St. Louis area.

377 BeachDem  Aug 20, 2014 4:42:07pm

re: #374 Kid A

And ChuckyC is now begging for money to hire a lawyer to fund his FOIA request to get Brown’s juvi records opened. Jesus, does this guy have no shame AND no job or what?

Apparently no and no. But he is an AWARD WINNING journalist!!

And the letter he got pretty much said no way, no how, you’re not getting those records, asshole.

378 klys  Aug 20, 2014 4:43:32pm

Another dead thread Dim Jim driveby.

379 Kid A  Aug 20, 2014 4:43:49pm

re: #377 BeachDem

Credit: Wonkette

380 TedStriker  Aug 20, 2014 4:44:00pm

re: #317 darthstar

I’m surprised he hasn’t hired George Zimmerman for advice on how to milk the situation for money.

It’s still early.

381 thedopefishlives  Aug 20, 2014 4:44:21pm

re: #378 klys

Another dead thread Dim Jim driveby.

Dafuq?

382 abolitionist  Aug 20, 2014 4:44:24pm

re: #347 WhatEVs

Why was this guy shot 12 times? This is the first I’m seeing this. He wasn’t rushing the cops, knife or not.

[Embedded content]

re: #375 blueraven

I fear once that video goes viral, and I suspect it will, there will be hell on the streets.

In the audio, I’m pretty sure I heard “Shoot me” 3 or 4 times. Caveat: No way for me to be sure that was being said by the man who was shot.

383 urbanmeemaw  Aug 20, 2014 4:45:32pm

re: #123 makeitstop

If Michael saw Wilson draw his gun, that could explain why he started running away. Johnson said the gun went off in Wilson’s vehicle. If it did not hit Michael (per autopsy) or Wilson (per video showing him walking and pacing after the shooting seemingly unharmed), what happened to that bullet? Or was Johnson mistaken because everything happened so fast? Whether the gun went off or not, I think Wilson at least started to pull it out and that’s why Michael started running. It’s an intuitively logical, plausible explanation to me.

384 Sionainn  Aug 20, 2014 4:47:11pm

re: #347 WhatEVs

Why was this guy shot 12 times? This is the first I’m seeing this. He wasn’t rushing the cops, knife or not.

[Embedded content]

That video completely changed my mind. When I heard the story about this guy charging the cops with a knife, I figured it was justified. That’s not what I saw on the video.

Damn.

385 teleskiguy  Aug 20, 2014 4:47:30pm
386 garzooma  Aug 20, 2014 4:47:40pm

re: #299 EPR-radar

If it really is true that the prosecution of Officer Wilson would need to disprove a self-defense story “beyond a reasonable doubt” under MO state law, then a conviction will be impossible.

Could Wilson be convicted of attempted murder for shooting at a fleeing victim (before the alleged “bull rush”)?

387 danarchy  Aug 20, 2014 4:47:46pm

re: #382 abolitionist

In the audio, I’m pretty sure I heard “Shoot me” 3 or 4 times. Caveat: No way for me to be sure that was being said by the man who was shot.

That’s what the original report was.

Police say they heard the suspect shout, “Shoot me now. Kill me now.” The suspect, agitated and holding the knife “up high,” approached and was shot by both police officers after getting within three to four feet of their police car. Dotson said the officers were within “lethal range for a knife.”

newsweek.com

388 EPR-radar  Aug 20, 2014 4:50:04pm

re: #386 garzooma

Could Wilson be convicted of attempted murder for shooting at a fleeing victim (before the alleged “bull rush”)?

That’s a good idea. I can’t think of any other way to get to charges under MO state law that have a prayer for conviction, assuming the linked information above is correct.

389 Skip Intro  Aug 20, 2014 4:51:03pm

re: #374 Kid A

And ChuckyC is now begging for money to hire a lawyer to fund his FOIA request to get Brown’s juvi records opened. Jesus, does this guy have no shame AND no job or what?

Maybe he should pawn his Award Winning journalist award. That could get him a couple of bucks, maybe.

390 Rightwingconspirator  Aug 20, 2014 4:51:48pm

Long ago I read up and studied stressors and adrenaline. The academic part of martial arts studies. One little part of that is the “fight in the dog” aphorism. The point being our cop might have been a very angry man before a word was spoken.

Did it strike anyone else that grabbing a large suspect from inside the vehicle is one bone headed move? How can you get out to put cuffs on? You don’t have control. I mean okay you grab the guy, then what?

To me this suggests straight out rage right from the first few seconds, let alone after a physical struggle or getting clipped by a punch or a window frame.

Then it just snowballs, anger, pain, adrenaline, the gunfire sending more threat messages to the brain… Compromised hearing. How can you hear a surrender over your own gunfire and temporary deafness? Ever shoot a .40 caliber handgun without ear protection? Even 9mm is pretty bad. Remember the reported first shot was inside the vehicle, the sound would really hit hard.

As far as I can tell this was a police induced rage boner FUBAR from the first physical touch of Brown.

391 goddamnedfrank  Aug 20, 2014 4:52:42pm

re: #383 urbanmeemaw

Or was Johnson mistaken because everything happened so fast?

Tiffany Miller also reported the first shot coming from inside the vehicle during the struggle. She was also adamant that both of Browns hands were outside the SUV at this time, trying to push off the vehicle to get away. If Wilson did suffer a facial injury it’s likely it came as a result of contact with the driver’s side door, especially if Brown did close the door as Wilson tried to exit the vehicle. The closing door could easily have struck the left side of Wilson’s head if he was trying to get out at the time.

In any event chasing after a fleeing Brown and running while shooting at him from behind is utterly inexcusable, as was lighting up an unarmed suspect at such a distance, hands raised or otherwise.

392 Timothy Watson  Aug 20, 2014 4:52:47pm

Double rainbow

393 b.d.  Aug 20, 2014 4:53:51pm

re: #374 Kid A

And ChuckyC is now begging for money to hire a lawyer to fund his FOIA request to get Brown’s juvi records opened. Jesus, does this guy have no shame AND no job or what?

CONTRIBUTE TO MY GOFUNDME SITE SO I CAN TAKE IT TO THE MOOCHING CLASS DEMS FROM MY IN-LAW’S HOUSE

394 Kid A  Aug 20, 2014 4:54:02pm

re: #347 WhatEVs

Why was this guy shot 12 times? This is the first I’m seeing this. He wasn’t rushing the cops, knife or not.

[Embedded content]

Holy. Fucking. Shit.

395 PhillyPretzel  Aug 20, 2014 4:54:13pm

re: #392 Timothy Watson

beautiful.

396 Skip Intro  Aug 20, 2014 4:54:34pm

re: #386 garzooma

Could Wilson be convicted of attempted murder for shooting at a fleeing victim (before the alleged “bull rush”)?

You folks are jumping the gun a bit. First he has to be indicted, and the odds of that happening aren’t good. Maybe they’d improve if the prosecutor wasn’t acting more like Wilson’s defense attorney, but it doesn’t look like that’s going to happen.

397 goddamnedfrank  Aug 20, 2014 4:54:48pm

If Brown punched Wilson hard enough to fracture an orbital bone then there should have been some kind of laceration on his knuckles. If Wilson was injured it was probably by the door.

398 blueraven  Aug 20, 2014 4:55:38pm

re: #382 abolitionist

In the audio, I’m pretty sure I heard “Shoot me” 3 or 4 times. Caveat: No way for me to be sure that was being said by the man who was shot.

Maybe he did. Probably some mental issues at work, but they didn’t have to empty their guns on him. He wasn’t charging them. They could have shot him in the leg or something.

Seems like overkill…literally.

399 wrenchwench  Aug 20, 2014 4:55:46pm

re: #384 Sionainn

That video completely changed my mind. When I heard the story about this guy charging the cops with a knife, I figured it was justified. That’s not what I saw on the video.

Damn.

I would hope this week and last will disabuse you of that kind of thinking.

400 klys  Aug 20, 2014 4:56:22pm

re: #396 Skip Intro

You folks are jumping the gun a bit. First he has to be indicted, and the odds of that happening aren’t good. Maybe they’d improve if the prosecutor wasn’t acting more like Wilson’s defense attorney, but it doesn’t look like that’s going to happen.

My feeling is that the state level is probably hopeless at this point and the possibility for federal charges is going to depend on how badly the investigation was handled before the federal investigators got involved (which was …three days after the shooting? I think?).

401 thedopefishlives  Aug 20, 2014 4:56:56pm

re: #396 Skip Intro

You folks are jumping the gun a bit. First he has to be indicted, and the odds of that happening aren’t good. Maybe they’d improve if the prosecutor wasn’t acting more like Wilson’s defense attorney, but it doesn’t look like that’s going to happen.

Yeah, it’s looking more and more like the prosecutor has absolutely no intention of bringing Wilson up on charges. And if he isn’t going to recuse himself, then it’s doubtful anything will get done about it. He’ll get away with murder; we can only hope the Feds will throw the book at him for civil rights charges.

402 b.d.  Aug 20, 2014 4:57:20pm

re: #347 WhatEVs

Why was this guy shot 12 times? This is the first I’m seeing this. He wasn’t rushing the cops, knife or not.

[Embedded content]

omg

403 wrenchwench  Aug 20, 2014 4:57:28pm

re: #390 Rightwingconspirator

As far as I can tell this was a police induced rage boner FUBAR from the first physical touch of Brown.

Might not have needed a touch even. Just not getting up on that sidewalk fast enough, and being black at the same time.

404 Kid A  Aug 20, 2014 4:57:54pm

Good fucking god, do the cops in the St. Louis area not use Tasers?

405 urbanmeemaw  Aug 20, 2014 4:59:48pm

re: #277 Charles Johnson

I’m surprised they’re not saying Trayvon Martin AND Michael Brown beat Wilson.

406 Rightwingconspirator  Aug 20, 2014 4:59:48pm

re: #403 wrenchwench

Might not have needed a touch even. Just not getting up on that sidewalk fast enough, and being black at the same time.

Maybe. Wonder what his previous call was… Already pissed?

407 Kid A  Aug 20, 2014 4:59:51pm

Lots of bad craziness in the world right now.

408 De Kolta Chair  Aug 20, 2014 4:59:58pm

re: #367 TedStriker

“Hey, if George Zimmerman’s cover story worked once, it oughta work again!”

Must drink to remove mental image of Darren Wilson’s clumsy attempts at Photoshop filtering being auctioned on eBay.

409 EPR-radar  Aug 20, 2014 5:00:15pm

re: #396 Skip Intro

You folks are jumping the gun a bit. First he has to be indicted, and the odds of that happening aren’t good. Maybe they’d improve if the prosecutor wasn’t acting more like Wilson’s defense attorney, but it doesn’t look like that’s going to happen.

IMO, several issues are in play. These include:

1) The St. Louis county prosecutor seems to be biased in favor of the police.

2) Missouri has apparently gone whole hog on stand your ground bullshit, with the result that, according to MO law, the state apparently needs to disprove “beyond a reasonable doubt” any justification of a killing based on self-defense raised at trial in order to convict for the killing. If true, this would be a big problem, even for a competent prosecutor.

410 abolitionist  Aug 20, 2014 5:00:55pm

re: #405 urbanmeemaw

I’m surprised they’re not saying Trayvon Martin AND Michael Brown beat Wilson.

Tomorrow, maybe.

411 thedopefishlives  Aug 20, 2014 5:01:18pm

re: #403 wrenchwench

Might not have needed a touch even. Just not getting up on that sidewalk fast enough, and being black at the same time.

My working hypothesis: The boys walking in the middle of the street held up the police car from going somewhere. This pissed off Officer Wilson, who was further enraged when their response to his rude request wasn’t an immediate “yes sir”. Assuming he did hit himself with the door, that would only make things worse, at which point he was in a killing rage, firing wildly until Brown stopped, at which point he took aim and unloaded the clip in a furious outburst.

412 EPR-radar  Aug 20, 2014 5:02:36pm

re: #411 thedopefishlives

My working hypothesis: The boys walking in the middle of the street held up the police car from going somewhere. This pissed off Officer Wilson, who was further enraged when their response to his rude request wasn’t an immediate “yes sir”. Assuming he did hit himself with the door, that would only make things worse, at which point he was in a killing rage, firing wildly until Brown stopped, at which point he took aim and unloaded the clip in a furious outburst.

This wasn’t even at a time of day when the donut shop would be about to close.

413 Kid A  Aug 20, 2014 5:03:23pm

re: #411 thedopefishlives

My working hypothesis: The boys walking in the middle of the street held up the police car from going somewhere. This pissed off Officer Wilson, who was further enraged when their response to his rude request wasn’t an immediate “yes sir”. Assuming he did hit himself with the door, that would only make things worse, at which point he was in a killing rage, firing wildly until Brown stopped, at which point he took aim and unloaded the clip in a furious outburst.

If a cop told me “GET THE FUCK ON THE SIDEWALK!!!” I would’ve told him “I pay your salary, try again.”

414 Kilroy01  Aug 20, 2014 5:04:13pm

re: #413 Kid A

And if you are young and black we’d send flowers.

415 wrenchwench  Aug 20, 2014 5:04:25pm
416 ausador  Aug 20, 2014 5:05:45pm

re: #383 urbanmeemaw

If Michael saw Wilson draw his gun, that could explain why he started running away. Johnson said the gun went off in Wilson’s vehicle. If it did not hit Michael (per autopsy) or Wilson (per video showing him walking and pacing after the shooting seemingly unharmed), what happened to that bullet? Or was Johnson mistaken because everything happened so fast? Whether the gun went off or not, I think Wilson at least started to pull it out and that’s why Michael started running. It’s an intuitively logical, plausible explanation to me.

The police also said that the first shot was fired inside the car, they said there was “evidence of that shot” inside the car. Translation: the bullet struck the inside of the car somewhere…

417 EPR-radar  Aug 20, 2014 5:06:09pm

re: #413 Kid A

If a cop told me “GET THE FUCK ON THE SIDEWALK!!!,” I would’ve told him “I pay your salary, try again.”

More true in Ferguson than in most places. Apparently the FPD is quite the money maker for Ferguson, with traffic fines etc. being the second largest source of revenue in the city budget, and about 3 warrants per household per year.

418 WhatEVs  Aug 20, 2014 5:06:31pm

re: #382 abolitionist

In the audio, I’m pretty sure I heard “Shoot me” 3 or 4 times. Caveat: No way for me to be sure that was being said by the man who was shot.

From what I read, that IS what he said. But are police supposed to accommodate suicide by cop without significant provocation? This seems very odd to me.

419 Pie-onist Overlord  Aug 20, 2014 5:07:08pm
420 ObserverArt  Aug 20, 2014 5:07:31pm

Had to do it, once I saw the image and Lizard comments.

Joe The Monster Plumber…he has his license!

421 BeachDem  Aug 20, 2014 5:07:52pm

re: #406 Rightwingconspirator

Maybe. Wonder what his previous call was… Already pissed?

It was a medical call, from what they said. He left there before the ambulance did.

422 becominginvisible  Aug 20, 2014 5:08:12pm

re: #391 goddamnedfrank

Or Wilson accidentally fired his gun inside the vehicle and reacting to the noise he slammed his head against the door.

423 sagehen  Aug 20, 2014 5:08:17pm

re: #342 SteveMcGazi

Typed by somebody old enough to use “Ma.”
(Edit) and “Mo.”

Typed by somebody old enough to own a manual typewriter.

424 WhatEVs  Aug 20, 2014 5:08:35pm

re: #384 Sionainn

That video completely changed my mind. When I heard the story about this guy charging the cops with a knife, I figured it was justified. That’s not what I saw on the video.

Damn.

That was exactly my thought. I thought this guy “bum rushed” the cops!

Apparently this IS the bum rush in MO and why Brown was also killed.

This is just freaking sad.

425 EPR-radar  Aug 20, 2014 5:09:25pm

re: #420 ObserverArt

I have zero artistic talent, but occasionally I get an idea. Perhaps this Frankenstein monster should have extra-large wing nuts as his neck accessories.

426 simoom  Aug 20, 2014 5:10:14pm

re: #363 Jenner7

US tried to rescue Foley and others….

That reads like it was a pretty audacious rescue mission. I’m glad all the special forces came home safe.

427 BeachDem  Aug 20, 2014 5:10:30pm

re: #412 EPR-radar

This wasn’t even at a time of day when the donut shop would be about to close.

But it was lunchtime, so he might have been hungry.

428 WhatEVs  Aug 20, 2014 5:10:32pm

re: #390 Rightwingconspirator

Yes. That was VERY odd.

(Sorry about the caps…it’s easier to empathize in caps on my phone.)

429 becominginvisible  Aug 20, 2014 5:10:54pm

re: #421 BeachDem

So maybe he heard the call and description and didn’t want to miss out on the action of driving around to look for ‘suspects’. Not really needed at the ambulance call he left.

430 EmmaAnne  Aug 20, 2014 5:11:56pm

re: #347 WhatEVs

Why was this guy shot 12 times? This is the first I’m seeing this. He wasn’t rushing the cops, knife or not.

[Embedded content]

This looks like serious overkill to me. What is it with emptying clips into people? They were still shooting after he collapsed.

431 ausador  Aug 20, 2014 5:12:16pm

re: #384 Sionainn

That video completely changed my mind. When I heard the story about this guy charging the cops with a knife, I figured it was justified. That’s not what I saw on the video.

Damn.

There was no else close to him, there weren’t any civilians to protect. I see absolutely no reason the police could not have tried to maintain their distance from him.

He didn’t run at them, more liked stalked them, looked like he was trying to work around to be able to go one on one with the officer on the passenger side. If that officer had retreated around the car instead of holding fast things might have worked out differently.

Sigh…

432 HappyWarrior  Aug 20, 2014 5:12:50pm

re: #430 EmmaAnne

This looks like serious overkill to me. What is it with emptying clips into people? They were still shooting after he collapsed.

I have no idea but I’ll be honest here, if not for so many people in this country being armed to the teeth, I’d seriously consider disarming cops ala UK.

433 BeachDem  Aug 20, 2014 5:13:31pm

re: #415 wrenchwench

[Embedded content]

What was CNN covering on Monday? Was there news of DA PLANE?

434 Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 20, 2014 5:13:35pm

re: #429 becominginvisible

So maybe he heard the call and description and didn’t want to miss out on the action of driving around to look for ‘suspects’. Not really needed at the ambulance call he left.

Exactly what I’ve been thinking.

435 abolitionist  Aug 20, 2014 5:14:09pm

re: #418 WhatEVs

From what I read, that IS what he said. But are police supposed to accommodate suicide by cop without significant provocation? This seems very odd to me.

I’m no expert on police methods, atho I’ve experienced some.

436 ObserverArt  Aug 20, 2014 5:14:57pm

re: #425 EPR-radar

I have zero artistic talent, but occasionally I get an idea. Perhaps this Frankenstein monster should have extra-large wing nuts as his neck accessories.

He’s a plumber! So, I went with faucets.

437 abolitionist  Aug 20, 2014 5:16:44pm

re: #430 EmmaAnne

This looks like serious overkill to me. What is it with emptying clips into people? They were still shooting after he collapsed.

Then (apparently) the police handcuffed him.

438 BeachDem  Aug 20, 2014 5:16:57pm

re: #419 Pie-onist Overlord

CONFIRMED!!!!

439 EPR-radar  Aug 20, 2014 5:17:18pm

re: #436 ObserverArt

He’s a plumber! So, I went with faucets.

Fair point, although “Not-Joe the not-plumber” is a meme that has some truth to it IIRC.

440 HappyWarrior  Aug 20, 2014 5:19:51pm

They really want to justify Brown’s death bad don’t they?

441 BeachDem  Aug 20, 2014 5:21:17pm

re: #429 becominginvisible

So maybe he heard the call and description and didn’t want to miss out on the action of driving around to look for ‘suspects’. Not really needed at the ambulance call he left.

Nope—according to the chief, Wilson knew nothing about anybody being a “suspect” when he made the stop.

442 lawhawk  Aug 20, 2014 5:21:39pm

It’s amazing that people have bought completely into Hoft’s completely unsubstantiated claims that Wilson was nearly beaten unconscious, and yet able to not only get out of the police car, but chase after Brown and shoot him with a pretty tight spread including fatal head shot.

443 Kid A  Aug 20, 2014 5:21:57pm

re: #441 BeachDem

Nope—according to the chief, Wilson knew nothing about anybody being a “suspect” when he made the stop.

According to Wilson as well.

444 Targetpractice  Aug 20, 2014 5:23:10pm

re: #440 HappyWarrior

They really want to justify Brown’s death bad don’t they?

It’s become like most such causes do for them now, a way for them to “win” over “libruls.” Oh, and to let their inner racist out.

445 ObserverArt  Aug 20, 2014 5:23:33pm

re: #439 EPR-radar

Fair point, although “Not-Joe the not-plumber” is a meme that has some truth to it IIRC.

He does call himself Joe The Plumber on his very own web site. So, I am fucking with that Joe.

It’s my humor. And, It’s free!

446 Jenner7  Aug 20, 2014 5:23:43pm

Anderson Cooper just interviewed a new witness, Michael Brady. Didn’t get to watch the whole interview, came in the middle of it.

447 thedopefishlives  Aug 20, 2014 5:24:04pm

re: #441 BeachDem

Nope—according to the chief, Wilson knew nothing about anybody being a “suspect” when he made the stop.

I’ve heard conflicting reports on this. One of my FB friends - a strictly conservative troll from Canada who apparently doesn’t understand American racism at all - says that the police chief said Wilson heard the call over the radio and knew Brown was a suspect. I seem to recall some statement or implication along those lines near the beginning of this whole thing, but I haven’t heard it restated lately.

448 Backwoods_Sleuth  Aug 20, 2014 5:26:09pm

re: #441 BeachDem

Nope—according to the chief, Wilson knew nothing about anybody being a “suspect” when he made the stop.

I was thinking more along the lines that Wilson heard dispatch talking about the robbery, he took off, MB & DJ were walking down the middle of the street (suddenly, now, “blocking traffic” makes some sort of twisted sense), and then shit hit the fan.

449 thedopefishlives  Aug 20, 2014 5:26:30pm

re: #448 Backwoods_Sleuth

I was thinking more along the lines that Wilson heard dispatch talking about the robbery, he took off, MB & DJ were walking down the middle of the street (suddenly, now, “blocking traffic” makes some sort of twisted sense), and then shit hit the fan.

That was my own thought as well.

450 stpaulbear  Aug 20, 2014 5:26:32pm

re: #442 lawhawk

It’s amazing that people have bought completely into Hoft’s completely unsubstantiated claims that Wilson was nearly beaten unconscious, and yet able to not only get out of the police car, but chase after Brown and shoot him with a pretty tight spread including fatal head shot.

Wasn’t it Fox News who ‘broke’ the ‘story’ that Wilson had been beaten nearly unconscious? I thought Hoft started the eye injury ‘story’. I thought they started from seperate unreputable sources.

Of course, it’s all one big ball of hatred now.

451 GlutenFreeJesus  Aug 20, 2014 5:27:09pm

re: #347 WhatEVs

Why was this guy shot 12 times? This is the first I’m seeing this. He wasn’t rushing the cops, knife or not.

[Embedded content]

Someone better save this video.

452 Aunty Entity Dragon  Aug 20, 2014 5:27:17pm

re: #442 lawhawk

It’s amazing that people have bought completely into Hoft’s completely unsubstantiated claims that Wilson was nearly beaten unconscious, and yet able to not only get out of the police car, but chase after Brown and shoot him with a pretty tight spread including fatal head shot.

Nothing amazing at all. Confirmation bias that the “black savages” will try to kill white authority overrides logic, compassion, basic human empathy and even basic verifiable facts.

453 HappyWarrior  Aug 20, 2014 5:29:16pm

re: #452 Aunty Entity Dragon

Nothing amazing at all. Confirmation bias that the “black savages” will try to kill white authority overrides logic, compassion, basic human empathy and even basic verifiable facts.

Yep. Never let logic in letting people what they want to believe.

454 OhNoZombies!  Aug 20, 2014 5:29:21pm

Seriously, I think if Mike Brown had beaten this man nearly unconscious, the two boys would have probably been able to get away. Especially if his grandmother’s house was nearby.

455 Aunty Entity Dragon  Aug 20, 2014 5:30:19pm

Policeone is on the job to make sure that poor, battered, nearly beat to death Officer Wilson is not forgotton:

Posted by HYRKY on Wednesday, August 20, 2014 04:31 PM Pacific Report Abuse

Understood, Brother, then it is I who understood intent. On a separate note, Darren’s fundraiser was up to around 85,000 last time I checked. With some 800,000 coppers in this country, it should be 10x that by the time this ends.

Posted by wasafuzz on Wednesday, August 20, 2014 04:17 PM Pacific Report Abuse

There was no shooting in the back, there was no shooting with hands up, Officer Wilson received a broken eye socket from a much larger violent person who just committed a felony and was committing another felony when a very justified Officer Wilson who is authorized to used deadly force in protecting himself.
The whole case against Officer Wilson has been hijacked by politicians and it has been absolutely disgusting. Their objectives have been all along to appease a certain race and the heck with another particular race. Exactly what happened to Zimmerman. Is this our new hope and change we were all promised 5 years ago? I think so.

Posted by SAPDMAS on Wednesday, August 20, 2014 03:44 PM Pacific Report Abuse

Nixon may have screwed up the case against Officer Wilson. Nixon could of prejudiced the case by his stupid comments without even knowing the total facts of the case. Not to mention the negative influence of such comments. In my humble opinion, it taints the case.

Posted by Kenstah on Wednesday, August 20, 2014 03:33 PM Pacific Report Abuse

How can a sitting Governor go on national TV and convict an officer without a shred of evidence? What about due process? What about justice for the officer? Where does this ass hat get off? Hell they indicted Gov Perry in Texas for cutting off funds when he’s allowed to do so, can’t we indict this ass hat Nixon for libel or slander or SOMETHING? Where are all the thirsty lawyers at?

456 HappyWarrior  Aug 20, 2014 5:30:45pm

re: #454 OhNoZombies!

Seriously, I think if Mike Brown had beaten this man nearly unconscious, the two boys would have probably been able to get away. Especially if his grandmother’s house was nearby.

Shhh you’re using facts.

457 BeachDem  Aug 20, 2014 5:30:53pm

re: #431 ausador

There was no else close to him, there weren’t any civilians to protect. I see absolutely no reason the police could not have tried to maintain their distance from him.

He didn’t run at them, more liked stalked them, looked like he was trying to work around to be able to go one on one with the officer on the passenger side. If that officer had retreated around the car instead of holding fast things might have worked out differently.

Sigh…

Perhaps if he had been white and had a gun, things might have ended differently:

…a sometimes tense 40-minute encounter with a belligerent, rifle-toting man…

Gordon: Hey partner, how you doing? Can you set that down real quick and talk to me?

Houseman: I’m not setting it down.

Gordon: Well you can’t cross the street like that.

Houseman: Am I being detained?

Gordon: Yes, you are being detained right now. You crossed the street illegally. Place the weapon down on the ground please.

Houseman: I will not.

Gordon radios that it appears the man will not drop his rifle.

Gordon: “Look, you crossed the street illegally; I just want to talk to you. I just want to talk to you. You’re walking around here scaring people, man.

A second Public Safety vehicle arrives just after 4:11 p.m. About a minute later, Gordon asks Houseman for his name. Houseman says he is “Joe Schmoe.”

“Based on training and experience I know that this is a euphemism used as an alias and knew it was not correct,” Gordon would later write in his report.

Houseman: I am free to go?

Gordon: “No, you’re not free to go. Right now you’re committing a crime of resisting and obstructing (for failing to identify himself after being stopped for jaywalking). Now you’ve stepped up to a misdemeanor crime.

Houseman: Why don’t you (expletive) shoot me?

Houseman talks of a coming revolution, and calls police officers “gang members” with a “history of violence.”

And they let him go, gave him back his gun the next day, and filed no charges.

mlive.com

(I know I keep posting this, but it offers such a dramatic counterpoint)

458 klys  Aug 20, 2014 5:31:09pm

re: #446 Jenner7

Anderson Cooper just interviewed a new witness, Michael Brady. Didn’t get to watch the whole interview, came in the middle of it.

Not from Anderson Cooper, but.

“It was something strange,” said Mr. Brady, 32, a janitor. “Something was not right. It was some kind of altercation. I can’t say whether he was punching the officer or whatever. But something was going on in that window, and it didn’t look right.”

Mr. Brady said he had been interviewed by county investigators, but not the F.B.I.

Mr. Brady said he could see Mr. Johnson at the front passenger side of the car when he and Mr. Brown suddenly started running. Mr. Brady did not hear a gunshot or know what caused them to run. But he said he did see a police officer get out of the patrol car and start walking briskly while firing on Mr. Brown as he fled.

From the NYTimes.

459 Rightwingconspirator  Aug 20, 2014 5:31:35pm

“Nearly unconscious”? No way.
Even if the policeman is showing pretty significant injury, I’ll not be surprised he was able to move and shoot in a rage.

Examples abound in contact sports. Playing hurt is a fact. As many sports doctors would say, we play well past when we should. Having fun can generate the adrenaline to play even with a sprain or mild fracture.

But none of those guys are “nearly unconscious” That means by definition you cant move or shoot hardly at all. Even boxers that go out on their feet are not punching or moving hardly at all. just leaning on the rope, arms mostly up…Trained up so hard the brain can no longer make the knees fail.

Even that guy could not shoot.

460 HappyWarrior  Aug 20, 2014 5:31:43pm

re: #455 Aunty Entity Dragon

Policeone is on the job to make sure that poor, battered, nearly beat to death Officer Wilson is not forgotton:

Posted by HYRKY on Wednesday, August 20, 2014 04:31 PM Pacific Report Abuse

Understood, Brother, then it is I who understood intent. On a separate note, Darren’s fundraiser was up to around 85,000 last time I checked. With some 800,000 coppers in this country, it should be 10x that by the time this ends.

Posted by wasafuzz on Wednesday, August 20, 2014 04:17 PM Pacific Report Abuse

There was no shooting in the back, there was no shooting with hands up, Officer Wilson received a broken eye socket from a much larger violent person who just committed a felony and was committing another felony when a very justified Officer Wilson who is authorized to used deadly force in protecting himself.
The whole case against Officer Wilson has been hijacked by politicians and it has been absolutely disgusting. Their objectives have been all along to appease a certain race and the heck with another particular race. Exactly what happened to Zimmerman. Is this our new hope and change we were all promised 5 years ago? I think so.

Posted by SAPDMAS on Wednesday, August 20, 2014 03:44 PM Pacific Report Abuse

Nixon may have screwed up the case against Officer Wilson. Nixon could of prejudiced the case by his stupid comments without even knowing the total facts of the case. Not to mention the negative influence of such comments. In my humble opinion, it taints the case.

Posted by Kenstah on Wednesday, August 20, 2014 03:33 PM Pacific Report Abuse

How can a sitting Governor go on national TV and convict an officer without a shred of evidence? What about due process? What about justice for the officer? Where does this ass hat get off? Hell they indicted Gov Perry in Texas for cutting off funds when he’s allowed to do so, can’t we indict this ass hat Nixon for libel or slander or SOMETHING? Where are all the thirsty lawyers at?

These guys are complaining about tainting the case? The hell.

461 TedStriker  Aug 20, 2014 5:31:58pm

re: #440 HappyWarrior

They really want to justify Brown’s death bad don’t they?

With orgasmic glee:

As they jizz in their pants…

462 Skip Intro  Aug 20, 2014 5:32:03pm

re: #452 Aunty Entity Dragon

Nothing amazing at all. Confirmation bias that the “black savages” will try to kill white authority overrides logic, compassion, basic human empathy and even basic verifiable facts.

Just look at how many mass shootings they’ve been involved in. Why just this week in Pasadena two more were stopped before they could wipe out another school.

So even though these shooters and the Isla Vista car murderers are all white, it’s these “black savages” that we have to look out for.

463 OhNoZombies!  Aug 20, 2014 5:32:56pm

re: #456 HappyWarrior

Whoopsie !

464 ausador  Aug 20, 2014 5:35:23pm

D.A.: So Officer Wilson tell this grand jury what you remember about the events of that afternoon.

Wilson: Uhh, I really can’t recall anything, you see I was beaten so badly that I was almost unconscious and I received a blow out fracture to my face. I remember asking the two male youths very politely to get out of the street and then the next thing you know I was at the hospital being treated by a doctor.

D.A.: I see Officer Wilson and may I say that the fine upstanding people of our Anglo-American community thank you for your heroism. Now I would ask the Grand Jury to vote on whether they think this poor officer who has suffered so much while protecting them from the criminal elements of our society should be charged with 2nd degree murder for the killing of Michael Brown.

465 abolitionist  Aug 20, 2014 5:35:36pm

Not sure whether previously linked, but fitting for this thread:
Facebook to flag satire after users get enraged over nothing
Web News - 19 Aug 2014 by Guy Wright

466 wrenchwench  Aug 20, 2014 5:36:30pm

Ouch. Downdinged by a hatchling.

467 HappyWarrior  Aug 20, 2014 5:36:50pm

re: #465 abolitionist

Not sure whether previously linked, but fitting for this thread:
Facebook to flag satire after users get enraged over nothing
WebNews - 19 Aug 2014 by Guy Wright

No! I like seeing reactions of people falling for Onion stories especially if they’re idiots in power.

468 prairiefire  Aug 20, 2014 5:37:15pm

re: #466 wrenchwench

Ouch. Downdinged by a hatchling.

Have an upding!

469 klys  Aug 20, 2014 5:37:21pm

re: #466 wrenchwench

Ouch. Downdinged by a hatchling.

For asking, apparently, instead of just making assumptions!

470 dog philosopher  Aug 20, 2014 5:37:36pm

left food out for ignatz kat when we went on vacation, but only ended up feeding racoons (no, neighbor lady, racoons are not “ratty rats”, and also they are not rodents)

now that we have trained the racoons to find food on my deck, i saw two of them staring at me through the deck windows last night as i made a midnight snack

they were wary but looked like they would gladly eat my sandwich peacefully if i was stupid enuf to feeds it to them

eventually i picked up my soprano sax and played an ornette that was so scary it scared even me

that ran em off pretty good ah reckon ummm hmmm

471 WhatEVs  Aug 20, 2014 5:38:41pm

Can anyone get to that video now? I’m showing it’s blocked.

Edit: it’s back.

472 BeachDem  Aug 20, 2014 5:38:54pm

re: #447 thedopefishlives

I’ve heard conflicting reports on this. One of my FB friends - a strictly conservative troll from Canada who apparently doesn’t understand American racism at all - says that the police chief said Wilson heard the call over the radio and knew Brown was a suspect. I seem to recall some statement or implication along those lines near the beginning of this whole thing, but I haven’t heard it restated lately.

They’ve told a number of stories, but this is about Jackson’s first press conference 8/15

FERGUSON, Mo. (AP) — The chief in the St. Louis suburb where an unarmed black teenager was fatally shot by police says the officer didn’t know the teen was a robbery suspect at the time of the shooting.

Ferguson Police Chief Thomas Jackson says 18-year-old Michael Brown and his friend were stopped Saturday “because they were walking down the middle of the street blocking traffic.”

salon.com

473 Lidane  Aug 20, 2014 5:40:15pm

re: #442 lawhawk

It’s amazing that people have bought completely into Hoft’s completely unsubstantiated claims that Wilson was nearly beaten unconscious, and yet able to not only get out of the police car, but chase after Brown and shoot him with a pretty tight spread including fatal head shot.

People will believe anything as long as it justifies their racism.

Buying into Hoft’s bullshit not only requires complete ignorance about human anatomy and how an injury like that would affect a person, but it also requires being convinced that black men are violent by nature, and that of course Michael Brown would beat the poor, defenseless white cop half to death.

474 ausador  Aug 20, 2014 5:41:03pm

re: #450 stpaulbear

Wasn’t it Fox News who ‘broke’ the ‘story’ that Wilson had been beaten nearly unconscious? I thought Hoft started the eye injury ‘story’. I thought they started from seperate unreputable sources.

Of course, it’s all one big ball of hatred now.

Yes Fox added the “nearly unconscious” part to it, they claim it came from a source “close to police brass” endquote.

Isn’t Jim Hoft always bragging about being close to the police bigwigs in St. Louis? Hmm…?

475 De Kolta Chair  Aug 20, 2014 5:41:21pm

re: #420 ObserverArt

Had to do it, once I saw the image and Lizard comments.

Joe The Monster Plumber…he has his license!

Out of morbid curiosity a couple of years ago, I signed on to Joe The Plunger’s mailing list when he was running for US Congress. He has only two modes: “Send me money to fight those who would silence me” and “The only way to get me to stop emailing you twice a day begging for your money is pay me off, and even then it won’t stop me you stupid stupid person.”

476 BeachDem  Aug 20, 2014 5:42:01pm

re: #448 Backwoods_Sleuth

I was thinking more along the lines that Wilson heard dispatch talking about the robbery, he took off, MB & DJ were walking down the middle of the street (suddenly, now, “blocking traffic” makes some sort of twisted sense), and then shit hit the fan.

Certainly a possibility, but you’d think the chief would have stressed that in his presser, rather than “stopped them for walking in the street.” Who knows what really happened—we probably never will.

477 Timothy Watson  Aug 20, 2014 5:43:27pm

Playing Dragon Age: Origins (with Morrigan in the party) while watching Farscape. My mental filter sorting each program’s dialogue keeps failing when I hear Claudia Black’s voice on either one.

478 wrenchwench  Aug 20, 2014 5:43:33pm

re: #469 klys

For asking, apparently, instead of just making assumptions!

Or it could be the answer. I did disparage Hoft fans.

479 alpuz  Aug 20, 2014 5:44:34pm

re: #466 wrenchwench

Where?

480 BeachDem  Aug 20, 2014 5:44:42pm

re: #453 HappyWarrior

Yep. Never let logic in letting people what they want to believe.

And it’s so similar to the description Zimmerman’s brother gave about Zim being about to slip into unconsciousness or some such crap.

481 simoom  Aug 20, 2014 5:44:48pm

re: #426 simoom

Wut?

I honestly don’t get that critique. It sounds like the mission went off without a hitch. Special forces arrived, killed the onsite ISIL militants, searched the location and then returned safely. It’s unfortunate there were no hostages there, but I’m glad the US did what it could to try and recover its citizens. Would Eric have preferred we had not acted?

482 HappyWarrior  Aug 20, 2014 5:45:39pm

re: #481 simoom

[Embedded content]

Wut?

I honestly don’t get that critique. It sounds like the mission went off without a hitch. Special forces arrived, killed the onsite ISIL militants, searched the location and then returned safely. It’s unfortunate there were no hostages there, but I’m glad the US did what it could to try and recover its citizens. Would Eric have preferred we had not acted?

So, Erick about those dead Marines on Ronnie’s watch. Oh, I forgot, Ronnie can do wrong.

483 wrenchwench  Aug 20, 2014 5:45:45pm

re: #479 alpuz

Where?

Two threads back, I think. There are two dead-thread heroes.

484 thedopefishlives  Aug 20, 2014 5:46:08pm

re: #483 wrenchwench

Two threads back, I think. There are two dead-thread heroes.

Dead threads are srs bzns.

485 becominginvisible  Aug 20, 2014 5:46:20pm

re: #441 BeachDem

Cops in my area of Kansas City MO have radio in the ear even when at a scene. Chief can say what he wants but officers try to keep track of what is going on. Although not all of them are into looking for suspects. (2 cops called by me at 4am for a drunk who was beaten up in front of my apartment didn’t want to leave for an All Call suspects running from the scene over one officer’s radio. I commented about it being an active shift and one cop said they like to let the newer guys do the chasing, they’d rather be the neighborhood cops that don’t hassle everybody.)

486 wrenchwench  Aug 20, 2014 5:47:16pm

re: #481 simoom

[Embedded content]

Wut?

I honestly don’t get that critique. It sounds like the mission went off without a hitch. Special forces arrived, killed the onsite ISIL militants, searched the location and then returned safely. It’s unfortunate there were no hostages there, but I’m glad the US did what it could to try and recover its citizens. Would Eric have preferred we had not acted?

He would have preferred that Obama had the same result as Carter; dead Americans. A small price to pay for the opportunity to write another nasty tweet about the president.

487 De Kolta Chair  Aug 20, 2014 5:49:46pm

While his band lends moral support, rockabilly legend Ray Condo attempts to mentally levitate an upright bass.

488 Kragar  Aug 20, 2014 5:50:28pm

re: #481 simoom

[Embedded content]

Wut?

I honestly don’t get that critique. It sounds like the mission went off without a hitch. Special forces arrived, killed the onsite ISIL militants, searched the location and then returned safely. It’s unfortunate there were no hostages there, but I’m glad the US did what it could to try and recover its citizens. Would Eric have preferred we had not acted?

489 alpuz  Aug 20, 2014 5:51:19pm

re: #483 wrenchwench

For some reason I decided to get rid of the stickers on the pugs. So, I went to their website and tried it their way. No good. Anyhow, being in graphics I pulled out the ole exacto from the deep, dark closet of what we don’t use anymore & it worked.

Although, I may have to powdercoat the thing in the spring. I was planning on it anyway.

490 urbanmeemaw  Aug 20, 2014 5:51:48pm

re: #391 goddamnedfrank

I’m amazed that neither Wilson nor Brown nor Johnson for that mater was injured by that bullet. Where the hell did it go?

My impression was that Wilson initiated all action with Brown, ie, trying to grab his neck to pull him in the car, then trying to open the door which hit Brown which caused the door to close. The medical examiner hired by the Brown family did state he saw no signs of Mike Brown engaged in a struggle. I think Wilson pulled the gun early on and that’s why Mike ran. He only struggled to free himself so he could run when he saw the gun. He did not struggle with Wilson for control of the gun nor did he assault Wilson. But again, I am not an investigator and I wasn’t there.

491 HappyWarrior  Aug 20, 2014 5:52:54pm

re: #488 Kragar

[Embedded content]

Yeah Bin Laden was among the FBI’s most wanted men for Bush’s entire presidency. Remember he was there before 9/11 too. Funny how wingnuts condemn Clinton for his Bin Laden actions but not a word for Bush. Could it be, could it be partisan hackery?

492 thedopefishlives  Aug 20, 2014 5:53:31pm

Completely and utterly OT, but I know a lot of Lizardim have support for the military and I wanted to share this: I talked to one of my high school friend’s mom the other day. After we had parted ways, my friend went into the Navy, and he came home from his duty around Mother’s Day of this year. I even called him to welcome him home and catch up. Apparently, after that, he slipped into a deep depression; she says that he doesn’t even return her calls now (they used to be inseparably close) and she suspects he is skipping his VA counseling sessions and not taking his meds. I’d ask that you send thoughts and prayers his way.

493 urbanmeemaw  Aug 20, 2014 5:55:09pm

re: #416 ausador

Thank you for that. I wasn’t aware the police had accounted for that bullet. (Obviously).

494 psddluva4evah  Aug 20, 2014 5:57:04pm

WARNING: GRUESOME VIDEO,

The St Louis police killed a man yesterday and a cell phone video is out.

‏@ryangrim 1h

St. Louis police release video of the recent killing of Kajieme Powell. It does not match their story. No words:

495 wrenchwench  Aug 20, 2014 5:57:07pm
496 HappyWarrior  Aug 20, 2014 5:58:46pm

re: #495 wrenchwench

[Embedded content]

Too cute. I would have loved to been able to throw as fast as her at that age.

497 wrenchwench  Aug 20, 2014 5:59:34pm

re: #494 psddluva4evah

WARNING: GRUESOME VIDEO,

The St Louis police killed a man yesterday and a cell phone video is out.

[Embedded content]

Oh, good. That was posted above but became inaccessible.

Good that it’s still available. Bad in every other way.

498 Pie-onist Overlord  Aug 20, 2014 5:59:41pm

THANKS ANON! (heh)

499 Kid A  Aug 20, 2014 6:00:19pm

re: #498 Pie-onist Overlord

Needs to feed the hamster in the wheel running his server.

500 Bubblehead II  Aug 20, 2014 6:00:40pm

Night Lizards At this point all else is deleted.

501 stpaulbear  Aug 20, 2014 6:01:12pm

When Johnson first described the confrontation with Wilson, didn’t he say that he heard Brown say that he was going to shoot them, which is exactly what the cop who just got disciplined said to the protestors? Is it just habit for the cops in those neighborhoods to use that language when on duty?

502 allegro  Aug 20, 2014 6:01:19pm

re: #494 psddluva4evah

WARNING: GRUESOME VIDEO,

The St Louis police killed a man yesterday and a cell phone video is out.

[Embedded content]

So is this the same incident as this?

littlegreenfootballs.com

Do I get a cookie?

503 OhNoZombies!  Aug 20, 2014 6:02:08pm

re: #498 Pie-onist Overlord

His servers couldn’t take the lies anymore, so they destroyed themselves.

504 Targetpractice  Aug 20, 2014 6:02:25pm

re: #498 Pie-onist Overlord

THANKS ANON! (heh)

[Embedded content]

Thank God this happened after the stock market closed, or the price of bullshit would have plummeted.

/

505 psddluva4evah  Aug 20, 2014 6:02:52pm

re: #497 wrenchwench

re: #502 allegro

ah…ok, sorry, didn’t realize it was already posted

506 wrenchwench  Aug 20, 2014 6:04:29pm

re: #505 psddluva4evah

ah…ok, sorry, didn’t realize it was already posted

No, that was good. Some thought it was deleted or blocked. I see it coming up more on Twitter now. I hate to assume, but I assume somebody has a safe copy. The owner of the phone, at the least.

507 De Kolta Chair  Aug 20, 2014 6:05:43pm

re: #505 psddluva4evah

ah…ok, sorry, didn’t realize it was already posted

No need for apologies. I for one hadn’t seen that before.

508 allegro  Aug 20, 2014 6:09:05pm

re: #505 psddluva4evah

ah…ok, sorry, didn’t realize it was already posted

I was commenting on the cynicism I expressed when we heard about another police shooting yesterday. It appears it was well-placed. Unfortunately. This is sickening.., and very, very disturbing.

509 ausador  Aug 20, 2014 6:17:19pm

re: #506 wrenchwench

No, that was good. Some thought it was deleted or blocked. I see it coming up more on Twitter now. I hate to assume, but I assume somebody has a safe copy. The owner of the phone, at the least.

The first video is still there, you just can’t watch it in an embed window because YouTube has it age restricted to 18+ now.

510 lostlakehiker  Aug 20, 2014 9:31:18pm

re: #53 Kragar

I wouldn’t be surprised if Wilson hit himself in the face with the door trying to get out of the car.

How would you even do that? IF Wilson has injuries, and when it came to trial that were given by the prosecution as the reason for the injuries, how do you think a jury would react?


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